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There seems to be a lot of feeling that Joe has regressed. Maybe so, but it’s also possible that he has actually learned something, moderated some of his worse behavior, but despite this is still Joe.
Which is how actual change takes place. Just because some people might consider some of someone’s behavior ‘problematic’, if there’s no actual harm being done, it all comes down to personal taste.
Joe’s personal tastes may be distasteful, but he’s still the same person he was six months ago, and has received some validation that there are people out there who don’t mind who he chooses to be. Anyone who expected him to suddenly get ‘woke’ apparently don’t understand people very well.
I agree Joe has reasons not to change much. But can I suggest that some kinds of problematic behavior constitute actual harm even if no one is held accountable for them?
I’m guessing your referring to affects to mental health as harm, but that’s a dangerous supposition, because noone is responsible for how other people feel, and it’s impossible to please everyone. Harassment and bullying is one thing, the targeting of specific individuals with malicious intent, but that’s not really what’s being displayed here.
There are people who’s mental health is negatively affected by exposure to things they find distasteful, but others don’t. Imagine a devout christian who suffers anxiety and depression because in their eyes, the people around them are going to hell. But you wouldn’t suggest that people should modify their behavior to spare that persons feelings. How is this any different?
Because Joe regularly goes around treating women like objects and like his dick is all that matters. I’d put that in the past tense but it doesn’t look like he’s quite past that yet. That is wrong and yeah, Joe should knock it the hell off.
Like, to use your example, no, people don’t have to radically alter their lives for a (imo misplaced) belief they’re going to hell. However, if said Christian starts spewing a litany of homophobia, transphobia and antisemitism, I’d have no problem telling them to shut their trap on the basis of them doing harm.
I am reminded of a story from the early days of the internet.
On a general-interest listserv I was on, there was a woman who was from Estonia. Her English grammar was as good or better than that of most native speakers, but it was all textbook English, and idioms and slang tended to take her by surprise, which she handled with good grace and humor.
So one day, she posted this: “It’s a beautiful spring day here! All the tits are singing!”
And some wag replied, “If you think I’m going to touch ‘singing tits’ — no, wait, cancel that.”
I think it may be less validation and more “I’m a piece of shit, I guess.” relapse mode. I’m not personally *calling* him that, but that’s how it feels when you fall off the wagon after trying to avoid a behavior, etc. I want him to understand there’s a middle ground between monk and boy-toy.
They say that using again is the end of a relapse, not the beginning, but it’s still a very defeating feeling.
It’s like when you’re trying to quit drinking. But because you were a drunk all your life everyone still treats you like a drunk. And eventually you say “Fuck it. If that’s all I will be to these people I may as well just give in, because trying to change is harder than just giving up and no one seems to care either way.”
Exactly. I don’t think he took failing well, especially because he did it in part to get away from a situation instead of facing it head on.
You know… it just occurred to me, he has no idea if Joyce has given up on going after Duncan. Maybe… Maybe that’s why he is being like this? We’ve already seen that he’s developed a pretty complex relationship with Joyce, and he bolted with Malaya when Joyce was confronting him on statements that’d imply a lasting attraction to her, like the “zero” on the scale due to her “hurting” him in her words, saying that she CAN get Jacob, etc.
That kind of thing can be really discouraging, if you’re making an honest effort to change. Sometimes, it can be easier to just burn bridges and move away from certain people, and be your newer self with a completely new social circle who don’t have years of your worse behavior tainting their view of your every action.
Uh, not that I would know. From, like, personal experience. Or anything.
I think this is worse than just a relapse- like, his shirts used to be subtle, back in the day, with like “Dig It?” and a picture of a bone. Now he’s almost playing up that aspect of his persona as if to make some kind of statement to the world and himself (and maybe joyce because of all the tension there)
Yeah, he is leaning into it. I don’t think that whole episode between “Toebreaker”, the List, caving to Malaya to run away from a real talk with Malaya and shirking watching Faz, etc, was good for his esteem. Which, on one hand could be good if he used it to push off of and improve, but he’s giving in.
This makes a certain amount of sense, but I still suspect he’ll, at least outwardly, use Malaya as a justification at some point (i.e. ‘Look, this girl is okay with it, so it’s totally fine for me to act this way!’)
Honestly, after sleeping on this, this comment wasn’t fair. Even if Joe got that sense of validation from Malaya (or if he decided after that encounter that he couldn’t change and was stuck this way for good) that’s not on Malaya.
So if anything, Joe should get chucked out the window (and someone needs to tell Malaya that the list was super gross since iirc she was positive about it.)
According to his tag, the last time he appeared in person was April 21st, during “Faz is Great”. That was Tuesday, October 12th in-comic, and ‘today’ is Friday the 15th.
I mean, Dorothy’s right, but weird thing to say to a person, especially phrased that way–almost like she’s dictating how Walky should feel. I mean, it IS how he feels, and he clearly agrees, but this is the first time I’ve felt like Dorothy said something exactly the wrong way.
Dorothy can be difficult to read sometimes. She is usually really pleasant, but sometimes, she will say something like this and it reads really patronizing.
Dotty’s always had this air about her. Not quite condescending, but in such a way where I feel like she didn’t quite see Walky as an equal. Which fed into Walky’s own insecurity. She kinda dotes over him like a mom or a babysitter.
I wonder a little how much of it is a learned behavior, or if it plays into the kinds of guys she is attracted to. Danny hardly ever asserted himself before college, and has learned to stand up for himself more.
Walky, similar story, though Walky’s situation is kinda different. He seems almost like he’s afraid to have ambition sometimes.
I see Dorothy as a mostly open and honest person whose first instinct is to tell the truth as she sees it, and that’s sometimes not such a good idea? And she maybe knows that intellectually, but can’t always apply that knowledge in real-time?
The truth is, when it comes to maturity, Walky really isn’t her equal. And that’s not necessarily something she admits to herself, but it comes out anyway when she talks to him, and she ends up sounding patronizing because she is being patronizing, even though she doesn’t intend to be.
She’s trying to acknowledge/validate his feelings. That’s what common advice says you’re supposed to do when someone confides in you, and because Dorothy tends to approach socialization in a by-the-book kind of way, it comes out as a bit stiff.
Yeah, she’s not in any way telling him how he feels. She’s describing how SHE would feel, because she thinks it’s how he feels and wants him to know she understands
Dammit Walky, you should not be justifying this to her!
Dammit Dorothy, you made it worse!
Dammit Joe, you were almost a person!
Dammit Joyce, you haven’t done anything wrong today but you still need to atone for all the meddling earlier and at the start of the scene!
Listen, I know there are like five panels of characters interacting before this, but oh my god, it’s Joe! We haven’t seen him since last April and now look at his hair! Look at that ridiculous, horrible shirt! His hair! Look at Joyce in the very last panel! Look at their height difference! GAZE UPON THEM AND WEEP.
Not quickly and easily.
He will change though. Learning your “core” is damaging, when you expressly built it to keep from hurting people is going to lead to changes.
And the Malaya thing wasn’t actually as satisfying as he’d hoped. Joe wants more, but he’s more convinced than ever that he’s dangerous, so he’s reverting.
Also, Joe, this isn’t dressing for the job you want. Nor is “tits inspector” a job at all. That job is called breast cancer screener.
…. actually, that’s more a task than a job. The job’s called doctor or nurse. Either way, you should be wearing a lab coat or scrubs and you aren’t allowed to fuck your clientele.
Joyce is in Elementary education (which also used to be Becky’s major at Anderson).
Dorothy is in Political Science and wants to go to law school (her book bio lists her as pre-law, which as Jacob explained isn’t so much a major as a goal).
Walky is in Telecommunications (for now, until Mother Dearest meddles).
Billie is in Journalism (which isn’t what her new friends pictured)
Amber is in Computer Science. So is Danny (and Rachel for what it’s worth).
Dina is in Biology.
Sarah is in Pre-law. So are Jacob and Raidah.
Sal and Ethan are undeclared like Joe, although Ethan’s interested in English.
Ruth is in English.
Mike is in Social Work (which is the most horrifying concept I’ve ever heard and I would like to fight whatever admissions officer accepted him to the program).
Roz is in Gender Studies.
Carla is in Engineering – specifically Computer Engineering, but damned if I remember exactly what the major is called.
Mary is in Art education over at the art school.
Jason is in Math. So is Penny.
No word on Malaya or Lucy and Marcie isn’t a student.
Actually, Mike could be a really good social worker. He identified an abusive situation easily and took action to stop it. He has outstanding people skills and hates monsters like Blaine. If his goal isn’t nefarious, he could be extremely helpful.
Although he should start acting less like a sociopath.
Considering Mike’s track record with the people around him, I’m gonna say ‘No’. The only time he’s nice to them is when he gets to be a dick to someone else – even with Blaine, he never actually did the thing that would stop him definitively (reporting him to the police). He used it as blackmail to…isolate him and Amber in a car for a few hours. I’m not gonna say Mini-Mike did that to intentionally make things worse – there’s no way he could’ve possibly known about the robbery – but Mike’s not got near as good a handle on people as he thinks he does and with most people he’s actively malicious. I do not want him anywhere near a position of care over vulnerable people.
IU Bloomington only has a department of Informatics, Computing, and Engineering — which, from what I can tell in a cursory glance, concentrates mostly on the software side of Computer Science/Computer Engineering/Data Engineering. If you want to get a degree in building bridges or robots or power grids, you’ve got to go elsewhere in the IU system.
Also, IU Bloomington offers both a B.A in Computer Science, administered through the College of Arts & Sciences, and a B.S in Computer Science, which is close to what we would think of as an engineering degree. (And it’s the School of Informatics, Computing, and Engineering, not a department — my bad.)
Judging from the classes that they are in, it seems like Danny and Amber are more likely to be in the B.A. track rather than the B.S. track (which I assume Carla and Rachel are in).
My assumption is that Carla already has the engineering skills down cold and is really just there to pick up a degree, so she takes random things like art class that can round her background out.
I just went back on tumblr to check and this is what Willis says Carla is majoring in. It’s in the school of Engineering: https://www.engineering.indiana.edu
Interesting list of majors – I mean I see how it works for Carla, but (as an engineer myself) I was expecting a list of majors a bit more like this: http://eng.rpi.edu/academics
To give it its full name, it’s the School of Informatics, Computing, and Engineering. In my best Dr. McCoy voice I say, “It’s engineering, Jim, but not as we know it.”
Also, patients would be massively put off by the everything, not to mention he’d be basically a walking workplace sexual harassment suit that no hospital would touch
He’d need to get a little less public about it, but that could come with age.
OTOH – for Joe it’s mostly public performance. Unlike most who present that way, I suspect he’s actually safer in private. Not that any woman casually interacting with him would have any reason to know that.
What we don’t know is that Joe has decided to actually go into the medical field and the shirt shows his desire for doing medically instituted regular breast checks to prevent further health problems.
I don’t think this is Joe exactly living his best life so much as “this is all I am to people, anyway, so…”, I’m thinking this is going to be a return to that when someone who knows he’s better than that calls him out in a way he can’t brush off.
Thinking it’ll be Joyce, since Danny and to an extent Dorothy care about him and know he’s deeper than that, but I also don’t know if those two would challenge him on it right now.
This is Joe falling off the wagon, which isn’t the same thing. He said as much when he went off with Malaya – “Lasted longer than I expected.”
The self-loathing is still there. He’s just put the mask back on. Not surprising, really. Change is hard and rarely happens all at once without backsliding.
Walky you lying liar.
Dorothy your ulterior motive is showing.
Joe you inspire both disgust and pity.
Joyce you’re thinking about the porno tape aren’t you.
Amber and he talked. If lying by omission is a real thing, there is a whole lot of mathematics, physics, history and who knows what all that you are lying about. It’s possible to intentionally mislead by selecting your facts (see any legitimate news agency ever), but Walky isn’t withholding anything that’s any of her business.
Yes! The best character has returned and while to some it may look like he’s regressed I’m sure by the end of the chapter he’ll be back on course. Maybe.
Walky was always an expendable and temporary distraction for Dorothy, even if she came to care about him. It’s perfectly plausible that she may ship him and Amber as much as some of us do. She has an emotional connection to Amber, who probably saved her life, and she knows Walky pretty well, so this might in fact be her way of making him pause and think, and not just react.
This is a lot more thought put into this theory then I think Dorothy is actually capable of in this instance. She’s a smart girl but she’s also shown that she isn’t interested in romance-based shenanigans (note: the Joyce/Jacob thing). I think she actually doesn’t want Walky to get with Amber based on the moral implications it would have with his relationship with his sister.
Dorothy is very much the kind of person who doesn’t want the people she knows to dip into relationship “grey areas” and do the “right thing”. The “right thing” Dorothy is implying in this case is “don’t date this girl because your sister and her fought”. Walky wants to be a good brother but he should give up on something that makes him happy to please others. Which, BTW, his sister seemed cool with him and Amber being together if her comment about Walky coming to support her had anything to say about it.
TTDR: Dorothy’s attempt at keeping her friends from doing “not great” things is why she wouldn’t play mind games herself.
But at the same time, she didn’t say this until Walky said they weren’t going to be a thing. I don’t actually think she was trying to manipulate them into not getting together. She’s trying to validate what she assumes are his reasons for getting together.
She’s also probably bending over backwards to keep her own feelings for him out of the equation.
So, for whatever reason, the hovertext frequently doesn’t appear when I hold my cursor over the strip, so I’m in the habit of right-clicking, and using the “inspect” option to see it. This has never felt dirty before.
Also, the plural on Joe’s shirt bothers me? If your job was “jet engine inspector,” you wouldn’t call yourself a “jet engines inspector” even if your job involves inspecting multiple jet engines.
I used to be big into building plastic car models, to the point that I was chopping them apart and using parts from different kits to get the particular version of a vehicle I wanted. So in a way I could call myself a plastic surgeon.
Something tells me that, after she gets over the shock of the sheer implausibility of these events, Joyce will probably have some harsh words for Joe, who seems to have had a serious behavioural reversal.
Meanwhile, the greatest hope for the Amber/Walky relationship is now some bizarre reflexive oppositional response on Walky’s part to prove that Dorothy is wrong and they can’t agree on anything!
Personally, I blame Malaya to a certain degree. I don’t blame her entirely because, ultimately, she was only the trigger. In essence, I think that his self-control failed him and now he’s convinced himself that he’s a hopeless case. I wonder if he’s going to be a self-parody for a while as, for the first time, he’s trying to act the part rather than just have a bad attitude to women and relationships.
It’s nice to see the old Dorothy back. She’s one of the most likable characters in the comic and she’s been sort of absent lately. It seems like she is doing well though and that’s cool.
So it looks like Walky might be rethinking the whole “breaking up with Amber” thing. Those are definitely “you’re not the boss me” eyes he’s flashing which can potentially lead him to really thinking about whether or not HE wants to break up with Amber. Not for his sister and not to agree with Dorothy. His thoughts, his feels.
I’d say that this doesn’t suggest that at all, but then, I argued against people who thought Lucy was attracted to Walky because she asked how his relationship was going, and look how that turned out. It’s entirely possible that I don’t completely understand this stuff.
It’s not that long ago she clearly did. They didn’t break up because she wasn’t into him anymore.
There’s little to no reason to think she doesn’t still want him.
I don’t think she’s going to act on it though. At least at this point. The reasons she broke up with him are still there. Assuming she has the self-control not to make a play for him – which breaking up so publicly probably helps with.
Ugh… Joe… I was holding out hope for you, I really was. I didn’t blame you for banging Malaya, after all, it was consensual sex with an attractive girl who literally came to you asking for it. I was hoping you’d view it as a one time thing and treat it as such, and go back to your climbing out of the pit of toxic masculinity and stuff…
Treating women with basic dignity is not actually that big of a change from Joe’s starting point. He’s an idiot dudebro that needs to get over himself and realize his dick isn’t the center of the universe not a violent misogynist.
Joe’s more complicated than that as we learned earlier in his arc.
He’s not just a dudebro. That’s the image he projects so he doesn’t make emotional connections and hurt women like his dad did.
What he realized is that he hurt them anyway, even with his approach, but that didn’t reassure him that he could safely interact with girls emotionally.
That just means the low standards you’re holding him to are even more unjustified because he should fucking know better now if he’s so self-aware. Backsliding into a harmful facade is a lot less understandable than backsliding into actual ingrained behaviour patterns.
I don’t think I’m holding him to low standards. I think this is crappy as hell.
I’m just not surprised by it and speculating as to why he’s doing it, since it’s pretty clear there’s a character growth arc here, not just reversion to his old self as if nothing had happened.
On the off chance that you read this, to MinzokuLeo and Panbiscuit on Pokemon Go!, I’m going to level up our friendship in about an hour. !2:00 noon US. Eastern Time, 5:00p.m. UTC, Friday, Feb. 1st.
That t-shirt is gross, and Joyce is likely the only character who can really get through to Joe. Something as blunt as a punch to the face may make him realise how much of a dick he’s being.
So punching people is the first and best solution is it. Joyce had already punched Joe because of his behaviour and it didn’t work (by working I mean change his behaviour) but when she talked to him in a personal, non-confrontational manner she seemed to get through to him
As long as what they say doesn’t break any local laws they can say what they like, I’d also prefer they didn’t, that no one listened and the media didn’t report it
Joe not being a Nazi, Joyce being pained and disappointed may work better. It did before.
OTOH, that may be the plan. If his reaction to falling to temptation and running off with Malaya is “I hurt Joyce by leaving her and I don’t want to do it again”, driving her away so she won’t care anymore fits his persona.
I find it endlessly amusing how people like you assume that no one ever punches back. Only thing more amusing is seeing the look on your faces when they do.
yeah, I’m endlessly thankful for fiction not reflecting reality in that respect. More violent hotheads getting decked in self-defence for me to laugh at
Cops are overgrown children cosplaying War, with all the rest of us forced into their stupid, childish game without our consent, consuming vast funds from the public treasury and ruining lives by the hundreds of thousands.
unknown@collie.bsky.social ⋅ 19h
I cannot get over these cops wearing night vision to arrest a dude on a Southwest Airlines flight in broad daylight.
a woman posted a pic in a group chat of a baby turkey she bought thinking it was a chicken. She captioned the pic "IS THIS A TURKEY?!?"
Anyway, I haven't been here because I've been yelling IS THIS A TURKEY at everything. You should try it
y'ever figure, hey, i should put joyce in bisexual flag colors for this storyline, but you also figure, hrm, that might telegraph things 8 months in advance, so you... add orange stripes and... it works, somehow it works, nobody points out the pink/purple/blue
Jonathan Joss being shot outside his home while protecting his husband after being sent a threatening and distressing package is WHY we need Pride
It's 2025 and people are still being shot and killed for being queer
This is why we march and why we fight
the thing about white liberal Americans is that they'll argue to accept bigots into their tent before accepting the bigots' targets.
the targets that have been on the same side as white liberals from the jump.
John Redcorn was pretty much the only contemporary Native representation I had in comedy growing up. Probably the funniest Native character in cartoon history and a lot of that was on Jonathan Joss' pitch perfect rezzy uncle performance. RIP to one of the best to ever do it.
today in #9chickweedlane i learned that, yes, lolly is so edda 2.0 that she's even wearing her mother's wedding dress as she gets married to Her Dad (But Taller)
unknown @collie.bsky.social ⋅ 19h
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Wait what? Joe what happened? I thought you was being cool
He fell of the wagon and into Malaya.
Note the five o’ clock shadow. Shit’s more complicated than what appears, give it time to develop.
He’s had that for ages now. It’s part of his default look now.
Ah, true. It’s the hair, his hair is usually much neater and well groomed, not the “just rolled out of bed” look he’s gog going on now.
…got going on now. Derp.
There seems to be a lot of feeling that Joe has regressed. Maybe so, but it’s also possible that he has actually learned something, moderated some of his worse behavior, but despite this is still Joe.
Which is how actual change takes place. Just because some people might consider some of someone’s behavior ‘problematic’, if there’s no actual harm being done, it all comes down to personal taste.
Joe’s personal tastes may be distasteful, but he’s still the same person he was six months ago, and has received some validation that there are people out there who don’t mind who he chooses to be. Anyone who expected him to suddenly get ‘woke’ apparently don’t understand people very well.
I agree Joe has reasons not to change much. But can I suggest that some kinds of problematic behavior constitute actual harm even if no one is held accountable for them?
I’m guessing your referring to affects to mental health as harm, but that’s a dangerous supposition, because noone is responsible for how other people feel, and it’s impossible to please everyone. Harassment and bullying is one thing, the targeting of specific individuals with malicious intent, but that’s not really what’s being displayed here.
There are people who’s mental health is negatively affected by exposure to things they find distasteful, but others don’t. Imagine a devout christian who suffers anxiety and depression because in their eyes, the people around them are going to hell. But you wouldn’t suggest that people should modify their behavior to spare that persons feelings. How is this any different?
Because Joe regularly goes around treating women like objects and like his dick is all that matters. I’d put that in the past tense but it doesn’t look like he’s quite past that yet. That is wrong and yeah, Joe should knock it the hell off.
Like, to use your example, no, people don’t have to radically alter their lives for a (imo misplaced) belief they’re going to hell. However, if said Christian starts spewing a litany of homophobia, transphobia and antisemitism, I’d have no problem telling them to shut their trap on the basis of them doing harm.
Undertale Narrator voice
* Despite everything, it’s still Joe
Thank you, Joe.
Joe’s all about checking out birds
He’s a regular hornithologist.
In his case, I think that’s spelled with a ‘y’….
Yornithologist
Well done. Bravo. *applauses*
But boobies are far more interesting… (they got blue feet for a start)
Oh, he definitely likes boobies, but he’s really hoping for a shag.
He also seems really eager to see a swallow.
I hear he’s also into farmbirds. He likes to introduce his cock to chicks.
Ladies and Gentlemen! Introducing, the Birds of Innuendo!
Hey, check out this pair of tits…
It would be illegal to show small tits like those in porn in Australia.
Those aren’t Tits. THESE are tits
Great Tits, Small Tits, any kind of Tit.
The other day Joe spied a really beautiful pair of Great Tits.
Must have been a vagrant – they don’t occur naturally outside of Eurasia and part of northwestern Africa.
I am reminded of a story from the early days of the internet.
On a general-interest listserv I was on, there was a woman who was from Estonia. Her English grammar was as good or better than that of most native speakers, but it was all textbook English, and idioms and slang tended to take her by surprise, which she handled with good grace and humor.
So one day, she posted this: “It’s a beautiful spring day here! All the tits are singing!”
And some wag replied, “If you think I’m going to touch ‘singing tits’ — no, wait, cancel that.”
Oh Joe we were making such good progress too
Oh god, he’s back to pre-list douchery.
That noise I just made was somewhere between an angry cat hissing and a garbage disposal with a spork in it.
And oh, Dorothy, you and Walky both have NO IDEA.
I mean, really, they don’t know about the incident they each refer to.
Wasn’t her fight with Sal last night one of the things Amber told Walky about?
As far as I remember, she only told him about the hand stabbing. I could be wrong…
Nope! You were right.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2018/comic/book-9-comic/02-but-the-sun-still-shines/bark/
You are correct and I just went back to check. My bad!
So like a metal rattlesnake?
Even worse, he’s falling further. His facial expression and third person references reek awfully of Faz
. . . .Alright. . . Who has Joe been hanging with if he is regressing like this? Last I saw he was just having sex with . . .Malaya? I think?
I was afraid of this. I’m pretty sure he took Malaya sleeping with him after having seen the list as validation.
I love Malaya, but I’m pretty sure this requires someone (NOT Sal) to throw her out the window.
I think it may be less validation and more “I’m a piece of shit, I guess.” relapse mode. I’m not personally *calling* him that, but that’s how it feels when you fall off the wagon after trying to avoid a behavior, etc. I want him to understand there’s a middle ground between monk and boy-toy.
They say that using again is the end of a relapse, not the beginning, but it’s still a very defeating feeling.
It’s like when you’re trying to quit drinking. But because you were a drunk all your life everyone still treats you like a drunk. And eventually you say “Fuck it. If that’s all I will be to these people I may as well just give in, because trying to change is harder than just giving up and no one seems to care either way.”
Exactly. I don’t think he took failing well, especially because he did it in part to get away from a situation instead of facing it head on.
You know… it just occurred to me, he has no idea if Joyce has given up on going after Duncan. Maybe… Maybe that’s why he is being like this? We’ve already seen that he’s developed a pretty complex relationship with Joyce, and he bolted with Malaya when Joyce was confronting him on statements that’d imply a lasting attraction to her, like the “zero” on the scale due to her “hurting” him in her words, saying that she CAN get Jacob, etc.
Off topic but… Duncan?
I think he means Jacob.
Oops, I meant Jacob. For some reason, I always think of him as “Duncan” and I have no earthly idea why.
That kind of thing can be really discouraging, if you’re making an honest effort to change. Sometimes, it can be easier to just burn bridges and move away from certain people, and be your newer self with a completely new social circle who don’t have years of your worse behavior tainting their view of your every action.
Uh, not that I would know. From, like, personal experience. Or anything.
I think this is worse than just a relapse- like, his shirts used to be subtle, back in the day, with like “Dig It?” and a picture of a bone. Now he’s almost playing up that aspect of his persona as if to make some kind of statement to the world and himself (and maybe joyce because of all the tension there)
Yeah, he is leaning into it. I don’t think that whole episode between “Toebreaker”, the List, caving to Malaya to run away from a real talk with Malaya and shirking watching Faz, etc, was good for his esteem. Which, on one hand could be good if he used it to push off of and improve, but he’s giving in.
As I recall, he didn’t run away from a talk with Malaya. Malaya was done with him and shot him out the door carrying his clothes.
I think DailyBrad meant caving to Malaya to ignore a real talk with Joyce.
Yep, she arrived and was an out for him. Not that he wouldn’t have wanted the sex, anyway, but it was also his escape pod.
This makes a certain amount of sense, but I still suspect he’ll, at least outwardly, use Malaya as a justification at some point (i.e. ‘Look, this girl is okay with it, so it’s totally fine for me to act this way!’)
Validation as in for parking?
Does that validation include
parking in the rearSorry I couldn’t help it.
Honestly, after sleeping on this, this comment wasn’t fair. Even if Joe got that sense of validation from Malaya (or if he decided after that encounter that he couldn’t change and was stuck this way for good) that’s not on Malaya.
So if anything, Joe should get chucked out the window (and someone needs to tell Malaya that the list was super gross since iirc she was positive about it.)
That’s all it takes… Even Sarah asked if he “learned his lesson” because “interacting with her always ends in learning some kind of lesson.”
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2018/comic/book-8/03-faz-is-great/lesson/
Turns out character development is one of the main components of orgasms. Unfortunately Joe released all of his. Probably several times.
Wow I can’t remember the last time we saw Joe.
It’s probably embarrassingly recent, but I don’t remember it
According to his tag, the last time he appeared in person was April 21st, during “Faz is Great”. That was Tuesday, October 12th in-comic, and ‘today’ is Friday the 15th.
For context, that was him leaving Malaya’s room, after their Slipshine.
Joe 2: Joe Harder
No, please Joe less
Oh hey look Johny Bravo’s back.
Old Habits die hard.
Today’s strip is sponsored by the HSBC USA Sevens Rugby tournament, the first weekend in March in Las Vegas. Buy Tickets Now.
I’m sure a lot of people would tell Joe to “go ruck yourself”.
What The Ruck
He is acting like a bit of a Scrumbag…
Welp, I fear we’ve learned precisely nothing but hopefully the one-strip-a-day format is about to prove me wrong
I mean, Dorothy’s right, but weird thing to say to a person, especially phrased that way–almost like she’s dictating how Walky should feel. I mean, it IS how he feels, and he clearly agrees, but this is the first time I’ve felt like Dorothy said something exactly the wrong way.
Dorothy can be difficult to read sometimes. She is usually really pleasant, but sometimes, she will say something like this and it reads really patronizing.
Dotty’s always had this air about her. Not quite condescending, but in such a way where I feel like she didn’t quite see Walky as an equal. Which fed into Walky’s own insecurity. She kinda dotes over him like a mom or a babysitter.
I wonder a little how much of it is a learned behavior, or if it plays into the kinds of guys she is attracted to. Danny hardly ever asserted himself before college, and has learned to stand up for himself more.
Walky, similar story, though Walky’s situation is kinda different. He seems almost like he’s afraid to have ambition sometimes.
I see Dorothy as a mostly open and honest person whose first instinct is to tell the truth as she sees it, and that’s sometimes not such a good idea? And she maybe knows that intellectually, but can’t always apply that knowledge in real-time?
The truth is, when it comes to maturity, Walky really isn’t her equal. And that’s not necessarily something she admits to herself, but it comes out anyway when she talks to him, and she ends up sounding patronizing because she is being patronizing, even though she doesn’t intend to be.
She’s trying to acknowledge/validate his feelings. That’s what common advice says you’re supposed to do when someone confides in you, and because Dorothy tends to approach socialization in a by-the-book kind of way, it comes out as a bit stiff.
Yeah, she’s not in any way telling him how he feels. She’s describing how SHE would feel, because she thinks it’s how he feels and wants him to know she understands
And based on what we’ve seen it IS how he feels.
https://imgur.com/a/uZL7jhr
Drew this for Butts
Butts disease strikes again.
We should thank Butts for whatever he did to deserve this,
Are those motion lines? I guess Amber’s entitled a victory dance now and again.
And what a GREAT butt it is
Glutes to the maximus.
Dammit Walky, you should not be justifying this to her!
Dammit Dorothy, you made it worse!
Dammit Joe, you were almost a person!
Dammit Joyce, you haven’t done anything wrong today but you still need to atone for all the meddling earlier and at the start of the scene!
Dammit of Age?
Checks out.
The original title but web advertisers were hesitant.
Dammit Joyce, stop thinking about a certain video.
JOE JOE JOE JOE JOE
Listen, I know there are like five panels of characters interacting before this, but oh my god, it’s Joe! We haven’t seen him since last April and now look at his hair! Look at that ridiculous, horrible shirt! His hair! Look at Joyce in the very last panel! Look at their height difference! GAZE UPON THEM AND WEEP.
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
joe
bruh
you forgot to shave
and also you’re being a dick (but what else is new?)
There was a new, not-dick Joe for a while. Not sure why he returned it. It was quite nice.
Because Joe is still Joe. A little bit of perspective isn’t really going to change the core he’s build his personality around.
Not quickly and easily.
He will change though. Learning your “core” is damaging, when you expressly built it to keep from hurting people is going to lead to changes.
And the Malaya thing wasn’t actually as satisfying as he’d hoped. Joe wants more, but he’s more convinced than ever that he’s dangerous, so he’s reverting.
Joe, no
I was eagerly awaiting Joe and Joyce’s next talk, but uhhh, this is going to hurt, innit?
Also, Joe, this isn’t dressing for the job you want. Nor is “tits inspector” a job at all. That job is called breast cancer screener.
…. actually, that’s more a task than a job. The job’s called doctor or nurse. Either way, you should be wearing a lab coat or scrubs and you aren’t allowed to fuck your clientele.
…. oh, wait, that’s STILL not the job you want.
He obviously wants to be a great ornithologist one day.
You know, has Joe ever said his major or like career path on here? I thiiiink his dad’s a doctor or something, I know he’s apparently pretty well off.
I know Sarah’s aiming to be a lawyer, but I am not sure how many of the rest have stated end-goals.
For what it’s worth, the Walkypedia lists Joe’s major as “undeclared”.
*rolls out my obsessive list of DoA majors*
Joyce is in Elementary education (which also used to be Becky’s major at Anderson).
Dorothy is in Political Science and wants to go to law school (her book bio lists her as pre-law, which as Jacob explained isn’t so much a major as a goal).
Walky is in Telecommunications (for now, until Mother Dearest meddles).
Billie is in Journalism (which isn’t what her new friends pictured)
Amber is in Computer Science. So is Danny (and Rachel for what it’s worth).
Dina is in Biology.
Sarah is in Pre-law. So are Jacob and Raidah.
Sal and Ethan are undeclared like Joe, although Ethan’s interested in English.
Ruth is in English.
Mike is in Social Work (which is the most horrifying concept I’ve ever heard and I would like to fight whatever admissions officer accepted him to the program).
Roz is in Gender Studies.
Carla is in Engineering – specifically Computer Engineering, but damned if I remember exactly what the major is called.
Mary is in Art education over at the art school.
Jason is in Math. So is Penny.
No word on Malaya or Lucy and Marcie isn’t a student.
And yes, Joe’s father is an osteologist.
Actually, Mike could be a really good social worker. He identified an abusive situation easily and took action to stop it. He has outstanding people skills and hates monsters like Blaine. If his goal isn’t nefarious, he could be extremely helpful.
Although he should start acting less like a sociopath.
Mike is complex. Also very simple.
The main thing you need to know is that he had sex with your mom.
For a nickel.
Considering Mike’s track record with the people around him, I’m gonna say ‘No’. The only time he’s nice to them is when he gets to be a dick to someone else – even with Blaine, he never actually did the thing that would stop him definitively (reporting him to the police). He used it as blackmail to…isolate him and Amber in a car for a few hours. I’m not gonna say Mini-Mike did that to intentionally make things worse – there’s no way he could’ve possibly known about the robbery – but Mike’s not got near as good a handle on people as he thinks he does and with most people he’s actively malicious. I do not want him anywhere near a position of care over vulnerable people.
Asked if Carla is Computer Science, or Engineering, Willis replied:
“Carla’s the wind, baby”.
IU Bloomington only has a department of Informatics, Computing, and Engineering — which, from what I can tell in a cursory glance, concentrates mostly on the software side of Computer Science/Computer Engineering/Data Engineering. If you want to get a degree in building bridges or robots or power grids, you’ve got to go elsewhere in the IU system.
Also, IU Bloomington offers both a B.A in Computer Science, administered through the College of Arts & Sciences, and a B.S in Computer Science, which is close to what we would think of as an engineering degree. (And it’s the School of Informatics, Computing, and Engineering, not a department — my bad.)
Judging from the classes that they are in, it seems like Danny and Amber are more likely to be in the B.A. track rather than the B.S. track (which I assume Carla and Rachel are in).
My assumption is that Carla already has the engineering skills down cold and is really just there to pick up a degree, so she takes random things like art class that can round her background out.
I just went back on tumblr to check and this is what Willis says Carla is majoring in. It’s in the school of Engineering: https://www.engineering.indiana.edu
Interesting list of majors – I mean I see how it works for Carla, but (as an engineer myself) I was expecting a list of majors a bit more like this: http://eng.rpi.edu/academics
Well, it’s a computer school as well, so I don’t think it’s too unusual that it’s computer focused.
Apparently there was quite a bit of bureaucratic knife-fighting behind the setting up of the program at Bloomington.
Huh. Neat.
To give it its full name, it’s the School of Informatics, Computing, and Engineering. In my best Dr. McCoy voice I say, “It’s engineering, Jim, but not as we know it.”
Malaya has the same drawing class as Mary, so probably something art-related. It didn’t look like she was doing it for fun
Patreon strips had her talking about it. It’s an elective apparently.
I have a question: Book 2 states Mike is in Computer Science, at least my copy of it. Where did you get the Social Worker thing from?
I’ll be away from the computer for the rest of the day, so if you answer and I don’t answer back, that’s why.
Willis said it on tumblr and that the computer science thing was an error.
Also, patients would be massively put off by the everything, not to mention he’d be basically a walking workplace sexual harassment suit that no hospital would touch
You’d think.
But it happens.
He’d need to get a little less public about it, but that could come with age.
OTOH – for Joe it’s mostly public performance. Unlike most who present that way, I suspect he’s actually safer in private. Not that any woman casually interacting with him would have any reason to know that.
“You’re a louse, Joe Rosenthal.”
[signed] R.Dorothy Wainwright
BIIIIG JOE! IT’S SHOWTIME!
What we don’t know is that Joe has decided to actually go into the medical field and the shirt shows his desire for doing medically instituted regular breast checks to prevent further health problems.
Like Otter at the end of Animal House?
Welp there goes all that progress Joe was making…
*sigh* Joe try as you might you’ll never be as successful with wooing the ladies as Walky….
He simply doesn’t eat enough Mcnuggets.
Or Taco Bell.
Okay I’m digging this Joe hair.
The hair is the only thing okay about him today
Oh noe Joe
Whatta ya know…
just as a feared, Joe’s self-loathing and self-esteem issues have been swept under the rug and he’s back for off-color comedy. Yay. =/
I don’t think this is Joe exactly living his best life so much as “this is all I am to people, anyway, so…”, I’m thinking this is going to be a return to that when someone who knows he’s better than that calls him out in a way he can’t brush off.
Thinking it’ll be Joyce, since Danny and to an extent Dorothy care about him and know he’s deeper than that, but I also don’t know if those two would challenge him on it right now.
No, I don’t think so.
This is Joe falling off the wagon, which isn’t the same thing. He said as much when he went off with Malaya – “Lasted longer than I expected.”
The self-loathing is still there. He’s just put the mask back on. Not surprising, really. Change is hard and rarely happens all at once without backsliding.
The panel break to visually split up Joe and Joyce is on point.
dammit Maui, not now!
“What can I say, except, you’re bangin’?”
God DAMMIT joe
I love how Dorothy keep breaking peoples script by agreeing with them.
“WE WERE NOT GOING TO BE A THING.”
“OK, that makes sense.”
“Doe… does it?”
Compare and contrast
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2018/comic/book-9-comic/01-flyin-to-the-red/grants/
Walky you lying liar.
Dorothy your ulterior motive is showing.
Joe you inspire both disgust and pity.
Joyce you’re thinking about the porno tape aren’t you.
I agree on Joyce, so that’s one out of four.
“Amber and I talked” is a lie by omission, he obviously doesn’t want Dorothy to know they were already hooking up.
Amber and he talked. If lying by omission is a real thing, there is a whole lot of mathematics, physics, history and who knows what all that you are lying about. It’s possible to intentionally mislead by selecting your facts (see any legitimate news agency ever), but Walky isn’t withholding anything that’s any of her business.
Wouldn’t a Mammographer or an Oncologist still wear scrubs, or at least a lab coat?
Yes! The best character has returned and while to some it may look like he’s regressed I’m sure by the end of the chapter he’ll be back on course. Maybe.
I do enjoy reading about Joe… He’s so insightful sometimes
Hes certainly the character I can most easily relate to with, surprisingly, Danny in a respectable 2nd place
Why do I get the feeling Dorothy is trying to push Walky and Amber together? By making him think it through?
Maybe she thinks it will be easier for her to let go if she sees him move on?
Walky was always an expendable and temporary distraction for Dorothy, even if she came to care about him. It’s perfectly plausible that she may ship him and Amber as much as some of us do. She has an emotional connection to Amber, who probably saved her life, and she knows Walky pretty well, so this might in fact be her way of making him pause and think, and not just react.
This is a lot more thought put into this theory then I think Dorothy is actually capable of in this instance. She’s a smart girl but she’s also shown that she isn’t interested in romance-based shenanigans (note: the Joyce/Jacob thing). I think she actually doesn’t want Walky to get with Amber based on the moral implications it would have with his relationship with his sister.
Dorothy is very much the kind of person who doesn’t want the people she knows to dip into relationship “grey areas” and do the “right thing”. The “right thing” Dorothy is implying in this case is “don’t date this girl because your sister and her fought”. Walky wants to be a good brother but he should give up on something that makes him happy to please others. Which, BTW, his sister seemed cool with him and Amber being together if her comment about Walky coming to support her had anything to say about it.
TTDR: Dorothy’s attempt at keeping her friends from doing “not great” things is why she wouldn’t play mind games herself.
But at the same time, she didn’t say this until Walky said they weren’t going to be a thing. I don’t actually think she was trying to manipulate them into not getting together. She’s trying to validate what she assumes are his reasons for getting together.
She’s also probably bending over backwards to keep her own feelings for him out of the equation.
Way to walk into your GENDER STUDIES CLASS, Joe.
So, for whatever reason, the hovertext frequently doesn’t appear when I hold my cursor over the strip, so I’m in the habit of right-clicking, and using the “inspect” option to see it. This has never felt dirty before.
Also, the plural on Joe’s shirt bothers me? If your job was “jet engine inspector,” you wouldn’t call yourself a “jet engines inspector” even if your job involves inspecting multiple jet engines.
Well, but if the jet engines almost always came in pairs and your job was always to inspect both of them, then your usage might legitimately differ.
I’m with you on Team Singular here.
After all, the FBI badge stands for Federal Boobie Inspector, not Boobies.
Joe could work as a plastic surgeon and see a lot of boobs.
I don’t think he’ll like being around for the operations and seeing the mashed-up hamburger titties part, though.
I kinda regret saying that. Sometimes, my mind goes to weird places and I just post nonsense without thinking about how it sounds.
These jobs never turn out to be what we imagine.
My nephew Joe is a plastic surgeon. He mostly fixes mangled hands, feet, and faces after transport accidents, fights, and cancer surgery.
I used to be big into building plastic car models, to the point that I was chopping them apart and using parts from different kits to get the particular version of a vehicle I wanted. So in a way I could call myself a plastic surgeon.
Joe, please come back. But, you know…stop being the old you.
And talk to Joyce you ass.
I’m gonna wait a strip or two and see if Joe’s actually regressed or not. Looks like he might have, but looks can be deceiving.
Something tells me that, after she gets over the shock of the sheer implausibility of these events, Joyce will probably have some harsh words for Joe, who seems to have had a serious behavioural reversal.
Meanwhile, the greatest hope for the Amber/Walky relationship is now some bizarre reflexive oppositional response on Walky’s part to prove that Dorothy is wrong and they can’t agree on anything!
*mashes Dorothy and Walky dolls together* Now kiss and make up god dammit, ya’ll are good for each other.
I. Dorothy seems to be doing slightly better than she was. And, uh. I’m digging her shaggier doo.
Joe, REALLY? HAVE YOU LEARNED NOTHING
Personally, I blame Malaya to a certain degree. I don’t blame her entirely because, ultimately, she was only the trigger. In essence, I think that his self-control failed him and now he’s convinced himself that he’s a hopeless case. I wonder if he’s going to be a self-parody for a while as, for the first time, he’s trying to act the part rather than just have a bad attitude to women and relationships.
Two steps forward, one step back.
But in Joe’s case he took two steps and then fell back down a whole flight of stairs.
It’s nice to see the old Dorothy back. She’s one of the most likable characters in the comic and she’s been sort of absent lately. It seems like she is doing well though and that’s cool.
Old Joe is back too I guess.
Joe: DID SOMEONE SAY NIP!?!
It’s a college campus. I really doubt anyone is saying WWII racial slurs.
I think GLOSS was referring to “nip” as a short for nipple? That’s where my mind went when Ir ead the comment, anyway
I’m sure Joe will be all “Tits are little birds, see? What, Dina can like dinosaurs, but I can’t like birds?”
No… No, that doesn’t sound like Joe at all but we will have to see.
Yeah, he’s not exactly subtle in telegraphing his interests.
But it is a nice callback to her differing interpretation of the “I dig bones” shirt.
well as long as it’s consensual and he has his titspector credentials and such
BOO! HISS!
So it looks like Walky might be rethinking the whole “breaking up with Amber” thing. Those are definitely “you’re not the boss me” eyes he’s flashing which can potentially lead him to really thinking about whether or not HE wants to break up with Amber. Not for his sister and not to agree with Dorothy. His thoughts, his feels.
Next time you might want to install safety railings on that wagon, Joe.
Well, if Joe’s goal is to get right back to his sex sabbatical, that’s probably the best shirt to be wearing.
Anyone else thinking what I’m thinking?
… DOROTHY WANTS WALKY BACK!!
… and I have to say I’m not exactly pleased.
I’d say that this doesn’t suggest that at all, but then, I argued against people who thought Lucy was attracted to Walky because she asked how his relationship was going, and look how that turned out. It’s entirely possible that I don’t completely understand this stuff.
It’s not that long ago she clearly did. They didn’t break up because she wasn’t into him anymore.
There’s little to no reason to think she doesn’t still want him.
I don’t think she’s going to act on it though. At least at this point. The reasons she broke up with him are still there. Assuming she has the self-control not to make a play for him – which breaking up so publicly probably helps with.
Ugh… Joe… I was holding out hope for you, I really was. I didn’t blame you for banging Malaya, after all, it was consensual sex with an attractive girl who literally came to you asking for it. I was hoping you’d view it as a one time thing and treat it as such, and go back to your climbing out of the pit of toxic masculinity and stuff…
Apparently I was far too optimistic
He didn’t see it that way.
He told us that when he went with her: “Lasted longer than I expected.”
He’ll try again, but it’s a big change and backsliding is expected.
Treating women with basic dignity is not actually that big of a change from Joe’s starting point. He’s an idiot dudebro that needs to get over himself and realize his dick isn’t the center of the universe not a violent misogynist.
Joe’s more complicated than that as we learned earlier in his arc.
He’s not just a dudebro. That’s the image he projects so he doesn’t make emotional connections and hurt women like his dad did.
What he realized is that he hurt them anyway, even with his approach, but that didn’t reassure him that he could safely interact with girls emotionally.
That just means the low standards you’re holding him to are even more unjustified because he should fucking know better now if he’s so self-aware. Backsliding into a harmful facade is a lot less understandable than backsliding into actual ingrained behaviour patterns.
I don’t think I’m holding him to low standards. I think this is crappy as hell.
I’m just not surprised by it and speculating as to why he’s doing it, since it’s pretty clear there’s a character growth arc here, not just reversion to his old self as if nothing had happened.
On the off chance that you read this, to MinzokuLeo and Panbiscuit on Pokemon Go!, I’m going to level up our friendship in about an hour. !2:00 noon US. Eastern Time, 5:00p.m. UTC, Friday, Feb. 1st.
Fucking deck him Joyce.
Why?
That t-shirt is gross, and Joyce is likely the only character who can really get through to Joe. Something as blunt as a punch to the face may make him realise how much of a dick he’s being.
So punching people is the first and best solution is it. Joyce had already punched Joe because of his behaviour and it didn’t work (by working I mean change his behaviour) but when she talked to him in a personal, non-confrontational manner she seemed to get through to him
The “punch first” policy is reserved for Nazi’s in my book.
As long as what they say doesn’t break any local laws they can say what they like, I’d also prefer they didn’t, that no one listened and the media didn’t report it
Joe not being a Nazi, Joyce being pained and disappointed may work better. It did before.
OTOH, that may be the plan. If his reaction to falling to temptation and running off with Malaya is “I hurt Joyce by leaving her and I don’t want to do it again”, driving her away so she won’t care anymore fits his persona.
I find it endlessly amusing how people like you assume that no one ever punches back. Only thing more amusing is seeing the look on your faces when they do.
Yet nowhere near as amusing as you assuming everything that is right or wrong to do in real life translates to what you want to see in fiction.
yeah, I’m endlessly thankful for fiction not reflecting reality in that respect. More violent hotheads getting decked in self-defence for me to laugh at
Yeah, because clearly someone wishing violence on a fictional character means they would or would want to go around punching people in real life.
Very clever.
Joyce has already punched Joe in the face. For checking out a waitress.
He’s no longer checking out the waitress. Success!
I think she had Mike punch Joe at Galasso’s.
Dorothy, not helping. Don’t know what else you could do, to be honest, but it’s not helping.
Did… did he fall the fuck out over Malay? Over MALAYA!?
Joe! I was concerned something happened, he is not making healthy decisions.