it just wouldn't be fair

Be selfish


Share

Tags: dina, joyce

114 thoughts on “Be selfish

  1. Dina… noooo….

    you can’t fix her, and you deserve so much better than being second place in someone’s heart

    TT~TT

    1. but the problem is, I don’t think Dina IS second place, I think it was just a case of Becky’s brain shutting down over the thought, she’s had a few too many worldviews shattered recently. honestly the big reaction was because Becky let her belief be eroded by something valid, this certainly isn’t a case of anyone needing to be fixed though, who hasn’t had their first love break their heart? ~<3

    2. but the problem is, I don’t think Dina IS second place, I think it was just a case of Becky’s brain shutting down over the thought, she’s had a few too many worldviews shattered recently. honestly the big reaction was because Becky let her belief be eroded by something valid, this certainly isn’t a case of anyone needing to be fixed though, who hasn’t had their first love break their heart? ~<3

      1. i am also reading this into the situation. if dina want to be with becky, and is willing to put in the effort to try to see if becky can accept her as her #1, and becky still cannot,then dina at least can say she tried everything.

    3. Alright now explain why the next person Dina goes put with won’t be second place after Becky.

      1. Why do you assume there will be a next person?

    4. IMO, I think that once Becky takes a minute to actually examine her own feelings in the cold light of day, Dina is actually more important to her. That if it somehow really came down to a choice between dating Joyce or dating Dina, she would date Dina. But it’s still gonna be hard to admit that to herself, because it’s going to mean letting go of this closely-guarded part of her heart that kept her going through the first 18 years of her life amidst all the rest of the trauma. That’s why she had the kneejerk reaction she did, and then that spiralled with her feeling like she doesn’t deserve to be happy. It’s trauma the whole way down.

      If Becky does that self-examination (and if I’m right about the conclusion), Dina and Becky have a shot at working through the rest. If not, then yeah, Dina deserves better.

      1. Yeah this here is the thing. Becky and Dina *have had an actual romantic relationship*.

        Yes, Becky has a *years* long crush on her best friend… but that’s what it is: *an unreciprocated crush on her best friend*. It’s easy to fall into the trap of this meaning somehow this means Dina is second place, but that involves putting an actual intimate relationship they put time and effort into building together on par with… well, a *crush*.

        Both Dina and the audience worry that because Becky’s crush was so intense, that this means somehow Becky’s feelings for Dina are diminished, or a semi-rebound (can it actually be a rebound if there was never a romantic relationship to begin with?). But the reality is, the thing Becky had for Joyce wasn’t *there*. She wished it’d been for years, and never took the time to sort through the feelings fully because she struggles with confronting the parts of herself that are painful or in pain.

        But the thing she has with Dina *was and is real.*

        The next step is up to Becky to realize it, and to realize the difference between what she built with Dina with a crush on her best friend that didn’t pan out.

    5. I guess I’m confused, because it appears that I see relationships and marriage differently from most of the people here.
      …I thought marriage is supposed to be all about finding a way to be happy with what you have. “Love the one you’re with.” “Love each other, warts and all.” “You’ll grow to love each other over time.” “Settle for settling down.” And all those platitudes.

      …I mean, am I wrong? It seems that committing to take care of one another long-term is much more important than being #1 for each other.

      …Maybe that’s just my own skewed viewpoint, though?

      1. I think for some people, the idea of committing to one another long term goes hand in hand with being #1 for that person. I’ll freely admit I’m biromantic, sex-repulsed asexual and it has been… about a decade since my last relationship so I know my own values and wants in a relationship are different from your typical allosexual. If I was dating someone and they were hung up on someone else, I would probably still be with them… so long as being hung up on that other person obviously doesn’t include cheating. Otherwise, if they’re like “I’m still bummed this person I loved didn’t feel the same as me” and I love them enough to date them, I’m just gonna be like “yeah babe, sorry that happened. How about we go on a date and take your mind off things”.

  2. If they work together, things can be BETTER than the way they were before.

  3. And thus Dina decides to go into a filmmaking career.

  4. Last panel Dina is spot on.

    I would be tickled pink if Joyce’s intervention actually works and Dina and Becky get back together. Unfortunately, I suspect that Becky and her internalized self-loathing will be a bigger obstacle to that happening.

    It’s also interesting how Joyce’s language is echoing what Joe told her about her and Dorothy, that he wanted her to have the things that she wanted. I wonder if Joe will add anything before we cut away.

  5. I do not like or trust this message from Joyce.

  6. So instead of getting Becky back, President Keener will institute the Prehistoric Fauna Accuracy Authority.

  7. It is so fucking stupid that this worked, I’m sorry. Joyce spewed a whole bunch of bullshit and it was supposed to be an actual powerful moment? Come on.

    1. yeah, it’s narratively unsatisfying + doesn’t really make a lot of sense

      1. “Be selfish! Have what you want!” is not a strong direction to take this conflict that is fundamentally about Becky’s hangups and baggage, and it would be far more interesting and engaging to focus on exploring and resolving those instead of whatever the fuck this is.

        1. but this may be the best way to get to that meat on the bone that is beckys trauma and issue. it all makes sense to me, the way joyce processes these thoughts, very on point for those in my adhd circle

      2. And does Dina *want* to be Becky’s silver medal? Like, this is pretty shitty advice from the woman who’s entire experience with relationships involves pressuring a gay man back into the closet, attempting to get a man to cheat on his girlfriend, and cheating on her boyfriend a few days ago (has it been two or just the one day since August now? I’ve…lost track) while talking about being selfish and chasing what you want with him *still in the room*

        *Meanwhile, Joe on the other side of the room wondering if he was ever actually something she wanted*

        1. I am willing to go out on a limb and assume every single person Joyce has ever shown interest in was someone she wanted *at the time*.

          Dorothy is…Your Mileage May Vary just because the awareness that Dorothy was on the table did not make itself present until their Paramore moment. Longing. Panging. Subconsciously negging Walky to Dorothy every step of the way of their relationship without any other reason besides ‘he’s a dumb’.

    2. I feel like the sentiment does work but only if completely divorced from the context of Becky and Dina’s last interaction which in fairness Joyce is not aware of.

      1. Yeah, it feels like it’s implicitly saying that for Dina to be happy she should compromise on her own dignity, which is kinda at odds with the “be selfish (in a good way)” message.

    3. Don’t forget what she told Raidah:
      “I am the best version of myself.”

      1. I remember. She deserves a medal!

    4. This comic is called Dumbing of Age, its not about people making the smartest choices or the choices that even make sense every time.
      I do see why Joyce thinks this will work, because so far it has worked out for her, she did the thing she has wanted to do for ages without fully understanding it and it has so far worked out and she is happy, so why not tell others to do that to if they want to be happy.

      1. Is it being called “Dumbing of Age” absolve it from all criticisms or just the ones you don’t like?

        1. Oh, absolutely. It’s a similar phenomenon to AmaziGirl being immune to criticism.

      2. The fact that all of that worked for Joyce doesn’t guarantee it will work for Dina, and yes, this is Dumbing of Age, it’s obvious that nobody here is exempt from being a fool, but there are some who take it to the extreme.

      3. People only ever bring up this “it’s called Dumbing of Age” or “it’s not called Smarting of Age” when it’s a knee jerk defense to criticism over narrative beats like this. It’s practically a thought-terminating cliche at this point.

        1. See how well it works?

    5. I’m really disapointted as well if this works. What even is happening here.

      Joyce is spouting some post-fundie nonsense, and it’s somehow convincing Dina she should go back to Becky? What’s next, a ”greed is good” spiel from Wolf of Wallstreet?

  8. hoping Joe has something better to say to Dina, and that he listens to himself saying it.

  9. this interaction went much better than expected

    1. Agreed. I was expecting a disaster, but that can still come if Joe is still there overhearing this. She said out loud she won’t dump Dorothy and had a whole speech that one should be a little selfish. Do they need that talk after hearing all this?

      1. yes because all this is things joe already knew. joe was 100% willing to share in whatever part of joyces heart she can make available for him.

  10. (meta text)
    “Cos precious and few are the moments we two can share…”

  11. i like what joyce is saying here but i’m gonna say something very unpopular which is that i hope this doesn’t work and the lizbians stay broken up, bc like. sure there’s the issue of “becky considers dina second place” but there’s also the whole “dina dropped becky like a sack of rocks the moment she started having a mental health crisis over this new joyce development” thing? which i don’t think i’ve seen anyone talk about here??? like for both of them i feel like it’s a bit rough to imagine them getting back together after this

    (plus i think it’d be more interesting to see them go their separate ways bc i want to see becky have a slut era. she deserves to have all the lesbian sex!)

    1. I do agree Dina not being there for her girlfriend during a mental health crisis strikes bad for me and when I brought it up in the comments I got a lot of “you aren’t your partner’s therapist” and “Dina doesn’t owe that to Becky” responses which are. concerning. Like obviously there’s a point where things get unhealthy and someone becomes an emotional vampire. I’ve experienced that. However, if someone I love goes through a mental health crisis, I’m there for them. No question. Yeah, I’ve lost hours of sleep due to it and gone to work the next day exhausted but being a bit tired is a small price to pay to know that those I love are alive and feel supported. I know that’s not for everyone, it’s a personal choice. But it’s also a big part of loving someone too.

      1. It depends on how often they’ve had this conversation. Probably not that often. But there probably is a tipping point of how often you can manage that issue if it’s persistent and the other person isn’t getting better.

        I guess I’m thinking of Elliot and Clinton at QC. Elliot had mental health issues but never got help for it, and it wore down to the point that even if you care about someone, you can’t assuage their problems if you’re the only one putting in the work.

        1. For Becky and Dina, this particular thing is kind of a first time issue? Like Becky’s been jealous and protective, which Dina has responded to by saying she finds Becky’s jealous reassuring (which isn’t the healthiest response in the world I grant you but that’s their life I suppose). And as with anything, it always depends on the nature of what someone is going through. Like, if someone is in an abusive situation and you’re trying to support them as a friend, and things just aren’t getting better, what does one do? Continue to support their friend? Maybe set up healthy boundaries while offering alternatives to help the friend still? Or just say “man this is just too hard, bye bye”. It’s up to each individual to decide what to do and I think it depends on what choice someone picks that helps them sleep at night.

      2. I’m with you. I was also bothered by Dina going after Becky while Becky was in crisis and pushing on the issue. I get she was hurt in that moment, but I really wish she had gone to someone else if she wasn’t in a place to support Becky.

    2. to answer your question, becky while in a crisis also told dina they were done and walked away. i do not believe dina would have been able in that moment to have becky accept any attempt to support her through that moment, because on beckys head it would be torture for dina to do that when she has just dumped her.

      1. If I’m remembering right, Becky didn’t say they were done and then walked away. She said “I shouldn’t talk about this right now” and then walked away. It was when Dina approached Becky afterwards in her room that Becky responded by saying “If you’re going to leave me, just do it” and “I’m the problem”. Dina agreed that Becky was the problem and then walked away, effectively doing the maybe-dumping. Sidenote but I hate how when you reply to a comment now, the comment you reply to gets smooshed into an unreadable single file letter formation that makes it difficult to look back on what one is responding to.

      2. She didn’t tell Dina “we’re done”, actually. She said “if you’re gonna leave me, just do it” and “the problem is me.”

      3. In what way is saying “If you are going to leave me, just do it” Becky dumping Dina?
        Interested in either your logic or something I missed.

        1. i did misremberthe 2 interactions as one so my bad there, but becky did not give dina the oppourtunity to really respond. i was really (poorly i admit) wanting to counter the “dina dropped becky like a sack of rocks” because that did not happen.
          —–
          1000% agree bout the comment you are replying to geting smushed, i also am experiencing the text of my previouos comment still being i the comment window and having to delete it

  12. Joyce the relationship guru as well.

    Flawless

  13. Why did this work? Why is Joyce the one saying it. What even is this?

    1. It seems they want us to believe that Joyce is wise, obviously not

    2. joyce is saying it because joyce knows that this is the best way to try to get dina and becky back together, this isnt an attempt to show joyce as wise but that joyce like so many of us can and do a good job supporting others without necessarily fully understanding or knowign what we are doing, and satan help anyof us when it comes to applying said support to ourselves

    3. This is gonna blow up in her face, I’m almost certain 👀

  14. Because she’s the *main character*

    Don’t you get it.

    1. God will make sure that everything works out.
      For Joyce.
      (And by “God” I mean Willis, of course.)

  15. The day a Jurassic World movie features the correct amount of feathers, Becky is getting dumped.

    Luckily that will never happen.

  16. –timeskip–

    “Wow, Dina, how did you completely reform hollywood’s portrayals of Dinosaurs?”

    “My girlfriend and I broke up.”

  17. I wonder what Becky wants.

    1. only way to find out is to talk to her.

      1. No, she’s not real. I can’t talk to Becky in any meaningful way. I can keep reading this story to see what Willis has written her to want, though.

        1. shoot and here i was hoping willis would do an AMA as becky! :(

  18. Just… *have* the things you want. Question nothing.
    Hell, why not? So far, Joyce and Dorothy haven’t faced any real damaging consequences. (Despite her saying she threw away a lot of things for the relationship.)

    Sarah is disappointed but Joyce clearly doesn’t care. And I think Sarah is mostly reluctantly accepting since she talked to Joe and knows that he’s aware of the situation so she’s minding her business now.

    Walky is a little irritated at Joyce but she definitely doesn’t care about that and Dorothy hasn’t seen him since the break up so who knows about that… Plus now that he’s distracted with Amber, it probably won’t matter anyway.

    So sure… it makes perfectly logical sense that this train of thought is where her logic took her.

    I still want to burn things.

    1. If Willis wanted to write a cheating arc then maybe they should have written on instead of just cutting Joe and Joyce’s relationship short to fast track her relationship with Dorothy in a very unsatisfying way.

  19. Interesting. I overthought what Joyce’s message would be. This makes more sense. This is what Joyce would say.

    How Dina chooses to interpret it and run with it (or not) will be interesting.

    I really like where this drama is going. Joyce saw two paths of sacrifice for herself – sacrifice her lust for Dorothy and lesbianism, or sacrifice her self-image as a goodgirl who would never be so selfish to hurt her friends while chasing that. She picked one, and (in the current honeymoon period, so far) is okay with shedding that part of her self. She picked the “be active in choosing the life I want” path of sacrifice versus the “accept my current unhappiness” path of sacrifice, and (so far) likes the trade, which is why it’d make so much sense for her to advise that to Dina.

    What Joyce isn’t getting is that Dina’s sacrifice matrix isn’t quite the same. Dina didn’t (primarily, at least?) end up here out of repression. There’s a lot of ways Dina could take this in a way that really sets up interesting exploration of Dina. Most obviously, Dina might sacrifice her dignity to go back with Becky. That seems like a bad thing, but she might also reduce her need for the people around her to see her the right way, reduce the need for the people around her to be correct, to have a type of “loosening up” that comes from an internal wellspring of confidence, which could be good. Alternatively, she could interpret this to mean “figure out a way to make it work,” and demand Becky work towards seeing her as the #1, which I alluded to yesterday.

    Alternatively er, Dina’s intense reaction in panel 3 suggests that she has work to do in being kind to herself, for that message to really leave an impact like that. Especially with her framing of “allowing” that to be. Maybe she sees her preservation of dignity as a *duty* in an overly detached “meeting psychological objectives” way versus connecting with her emotions and desires. That’s another interesting road for development.

    I wasn’t super on board with DoJoy in the story for a bit, but now I’m really starting to appreciate how the shakeup has created room for development in the cast for many characters and storylines.

    1. I really would have liked for the line breaks in my post to make it through for readability. Oh well!

      1. I recommend putting three dashes where you would otherwise put the line break, the system will convert them into a line across the column instead of erasing it.

        Like so! Not perfect by any means but it at least puts some sort of space between paragraphs.

        1. Tremendously helpful.

          Thanks!

    2. I got a question for this. When was Joyce unhappy? Was she unhappy with Joe? It didn’t really seem like it. To me it seemed like less of a sacrifice and more like trying to have her cake and eat it too. Specifically having a really gay pining session before going to straddle and makeout with your then boyfriend before having a romantic date and a night of handy pleasure. Then trying to have a mutual masterba- I mean “do laundry” with your bestie before actually just cheating with her that same day.

      1. She would have been unhappy if she did not pursue Dorothy.

        This hypothetical “would have” is not quite matching with my use of “current,” but what I meant was like, if she picked the status quo path and did not pursue Dorothy, she would be unhappy in those moments.

        Joe was her second place and she was brimming with Lesbian Feelings that needed an outlet. Staying with Joe as those Lesbian Feelings continued to fester, after (in this hypothetical) noticing them but consciously choosing to put them off and suppress them and not act on them, sounds miserable. With how intense her lesbian arc has been, and how utterly elated she is to be with Dorothy and give those feelings an outlet, such a “repressing feelings and pinings” situation with Joe sounds miserable. She was happy before with Joe, but her lesbian feelings hadn’t reached the dam then. Pre-dam versus post-dam are different worlds.

        She’s not especially into having her cake and eating it too. She’s especially into eating her cake. If she has her cake too, that’s rad in her mind, but that’s well down the priority list.

      2. I don’t think she was unhappy with Joe. But I think her relationship with Joe lacked a lot of what she had with Dorothy – excitement. Joe was quiet, thoughtful, respectful. Great stuff for a life partner. Dorothy’s relationship with Joyce was explosive, messy, spurred on by anger and righteousness.
        ———
        I don’t think Joyce wanting Dorothy was necessarily wrong, but I think Joyce, being a romantic who’s also big on large gestures, found Dorothy more attractive at the end of the day. Dorothy challenges her, encourages her emotional responses, drives her to follow her heart. Joe mostly just quietly accepts all of Joyce’s issues and finds a way to accommodate them. And it seems for now, Joyce prefers the former.

    3. I like this, you’ve clearly given this a lot of thought, and you make a convincing argument. At the very least, Becky needs to work through her trauma response. That’s what they always say, don’t make any major decision when you’re in the throes of intense emotion. Wait until you’ve leveled out before making big life choices.

      If there is any hope of salvaging Terrible Lizbians, then it will have to include Becky addressing and coming to term with her past in a way that doesn’t exclude her future. Like all things, easier said than done, but it’s possible, and even then, only if Dina wants to salvage it, which she may not (though her reaction here indicates she might?)

      Really though, whether she gets back together with Dina or not, somebody get Becky some goddamn help, someone who isn’t fooled by the “I’m just a wacky crazy cartoon character” act she uses to bury her scars. The longer she puts it off, the uglier the healing process is going to be… speaking from experience on this one. Take heart though, getting to be a sincere wacky crazy cartoon character of a person is a hell of a lot of fun.

  20. I want my Becky back, Becky back, Becky back, Becky back ♪

    in other news…

  21. and in the future, you shall have BOTH

    1. note : when posting, I get sent to http://www.dumbingofage.com/wp-comments-post.php which is a 404 error and must go back to the page manually. The comment is still posted tho

      1. i am encountering that page about 60% of the time for my self

  22. Hmmm, if this is all it takes for Dina to decide that she actually wants to get back together with Becky, and we don’t first see Becky demonstrate to Dina that Becky doesn’t actually consider Dina less “significant” (for lack of a better word) than Joyce, this isn’t going to be particularly satisfying. If the premise is that Dina should be healthily selfish that should include Dina being allowed to also want to have her own self-respect in a relationship.

    1. Very much this, too.

  23. My fellow early commentariat (rare for me to make it this early!) is rushing to say “this worked” with usually negative tones about it. We don’t know whether it worked. Dina and Becky haven’t even started talking yet.
    All we know is that 1) Dina is non-hostile, which makes sense because Joyce reacted to her needs (stopped yelling; understood and assessed Dina’s priorities), 2) “be kind to yourself” was something Dina needed to hear, which I look forward to learning more about, and 3) Dina was not at the point of permanently sinking the relationship for good, which was not a surprise at all.

  24. I don’t think we’re meant to take this as a 100% correct, good message from Joyce. Because it’s clear that there *has* been collateral damage from her selfishness.

    I’m thinking Dina will take the good bits of what Joyce is saying (what does she actually want to happen?) then seek out Becky to have a more productive conversation but not necessarily get back together… at least right away. I think Joyce will have to deal with her advice and outlook not always having positive results. reminiscent of how she had to learn to adjust after realizing she was an athiest.

    I think a lot of people tend read what’s on the page in this comic differently than I do though and the long time this storyline has stretched out with no resolution has delayed an answer as to whose interpretations are correct.

  25. To make my ennui a bit more specific it feels like to me that the pep talk Joyce is giving Dina here feels almost completely divorced from the nature of the tension in the relationship between Dina and becky to such an extent that it makes it feel as if she truly feels like she’s blaming the breakup solely on Dina. And furthermore Solely on her inability to selfishly ask for things she wants rather than a failing of Becky’s for making her girlfriend feel so unwanted. Which just rubs me the wrong way, especially since yet again it’s Joyce lecturing a person of color about this stuff.

    1. Yeah, it additionally seems to be unintentionally creating an implication/underlying sentiment that “being (good) selfish” and “preserving one’s dignity” are mutually exclusive things in this specific scenario.

    2. It’s pretty divorced. That’s undeniable. There are interpretations of the somewhat vague advice that range from good to bad, but it seems like Joyce doesn’t get the full picture.

      However, that said:

      Dina: I want this, but I’m not sure if I can get it.
      Joyce: Do what you want :)
      Dina: :)
      Dina: I might.
      You: Joyce should stop lecturing and blaming this person of color.

      That doesn’t make sense. She’s not assigning responsibility to anyone, she’s trying to give Dina a way to get what she wants. She’s not lecturing, she’s assessing and reacting to Dina’s needs, and spotting a generally good (if potentially flawed in context) piece of Dina-affirming advice.

      1. My issue is more that Joyce had to seek out Dina specifically to have this conversation. It all works out because the story is written for it to all work out because Joyce is the main character. With the limited knowledge Joyce had she decided to seek out Dina to tell her to take Becky back and that rubs me the wrong way, especially since the nature of their tension in the relationship IS that Becky was still holding a torch for Joyce.
        “Let me explain to you how love works.”- Girl who cheated on her boyfriend and has been dating her current girlfriend for all of 2 days.
        This conversation didn’t have to be and I feel like it shouldn’t have been Joyce explaining it.

        1. there is nothing in joyces comments about “this is how love works” and i think if you divorce that from your thoughts you will see it in a different light. joyce, understanding dina’s lack of experience with relationships, difficulties in reading social cues, knows that dina is very unlikely to see things in this manner. she knows that if she goes to becky to try to get her to go back to dina, it wont work becky isnt in a place to be able to hear that from joyce.

          joyce has the emotional intelligence to comprehend a lot when i come to situations that are not herself, it makes absolute sense to me that joyce would be able to go to dina here and say what would get dina thinking of her own happyness and that it is ok sometimes to do something that others would not (or not recommend doing) because you think it will make you happy. i agree with her 100% on this, if after reveiwing the information available to me, including looking at possible negative results and i choose to do it, it is my decision to do so, and i doubt without having taken those chances i would have the few things i have that still bring me joy.

        2. yeah all in all,
          I must ask,
          were you serious about drawing stink lines wafting off of Joyce?
          ….
          please tell me you were serious bruh 👀

    3. If I had to twist the peg around in order to force it into the slot, I’d say that Joyce really only encouraged Dina to reorient her thinking from “I want to stay together with Becky, but she’s making me feel like I’m not as important to her as Joyce” to “Becky’s making me feel like I’m not as important to her as Joyce, but I still want to be together with her.” That’s all. And I suppose, as someone who is convinced that ‘Becky would’ve preferred Joyce over me’ is a *fact*, this might be the only way she could orient her thinking to wanting to stay together with Becky.

      The underlying issue isn’t fixed, and Dina’s not going to just be okay with everything, but she’s temporarily putting one conflicting emotion in front of the other. Which. Unfortunately makes me think of *really awful relationships* that people feel trapped into despite being aware of the negative things that being with their partner causes them to experience. If this is going to lead to Becky and Dina getting back together, it can’t just be the *only thing* that happens.

      Honestly, I was hoping that when the bomb finally dropped on Becky, she would’ve felt secure in confiding with Dina in such a way that they both didn’t end up hurt by it, but ‘Becky is barely holding it together because her entire life fell apart over the last six months’ is an evergreen plot point, so perhaps that was foolish of me.

    4. Nope, Becky/Dina is a comfort ship so we can’t actually do anything interesting with it.

  26. Dina should think about whether she wants to get back together with Becky, and whether it would be better for her if they got back together. And she probably should not trust the advice of Joyce, who got into her current relationship by cheating and has treated a whole lot of people around her shitty since then.

    Also I feel like it’s important to mention that while both Dina and Joyce are probably autistic, that doesn’t mean they have to necessarily get along. For me as an autistic person, while there are some fellow autistic people I get along with really well, there are other autistic people who annoy the hell out of me whenever we’re near each other.

    1. I call it “Clashing Tisms”

    1. God, I mangled that tag/link, didn’t I? And of course, this is the time that the new edit button doesn’t work. *facepalm*

      1. i feel you my worst typos of the night, no edit available

  27. I feel like people are kinda taking “i will think about it” to mean “i agree with this advice you have given me without reservation” but honestly my brain is kinda fried today so I might not be giving them a fair shake.

    But yeah, I really hope Joe gives Dina the advice that he was going to give her, because it’d probably be helpful.

  28. Yeah, even if they end up back together I’m not hopeful. Like, the issue wasn’t that Dina was repressing or holding back her love for Becky. She just couldn’t continue after climbing a perpetual ramp that became much, much steeper. It’s less a matter of wether Dina is reclaiming enough and more wether the path was worth treading in the first place.

    But who knows, maybe Becky is willing and able to make this work. I’d be nice to see the relationship actually changing for the better.

  29. You know what this advice feels like? When Dorothy told Walky to wait and see on Lucy because surely stronger feelings would develop overtime! No need to tell your girlfriend maybe you don’t love her and that you’re on different wavelengths. Just bad advice not suitable to a situation you don’t fully understand. But maybe this bad advice will workout for Dina! I believe!

    1. so the fact that what joyces advice here really breaks down to is “go talk to becky because if you want to be with her still you need to tell her” thus encouraging dina to communicate with becky, the only way they would have any chance of getting back together, or truely confirming if becky really doesnt now hold dina 1st in her heartis by communicating is bad advice?

  30. So… who’s of the opinion that dinosaurs are ancestors to both modern birds and reptiles?

    1. Well that kinda depends on what you define as a “Dinosaur”.

    2. No no no, dinosaurs are descended from reptiles, and are related to crocodyllians as fellow archosaurs, but are ancestral to birds.

      …how big are those Dina hoodies in men’s sizes?

  31. I do not really like what Joyce is saying. She seems to think it is profound, but it comes across as Joyce essentially saying, “Do what you want if it feels good, consequences be damned.” That kind of hedonism may be fun in the short term, but it is not socially sustainable.

    1. At this time, anything Joyce says is not advisable.

    2. You were expecting sense from Joyce???

    3. Joyce seems to still be in the post-fundie trap.
      She used to think morals come from God. Since there is no God, she’s telling herself there’s no right and wrong, and she should just do whatever she wants.

      If she has been introduced to the concept of ethics, it clearly didn’t take. It’s probably all just silly to her, if there’s no divine arbiter handing out rewards and punishments.

    4. I mean it sure seems socially sustainable. Everyone is pro-Joyce. She’s never been more socially successful than she is now.

    5. she isnt saying that at all though. she is saying that if dina wants to still be with becky she need to tell becky that, and that even if this could be considered selfish of dina to want this that it is ok. at its core the message is to talk, to communicate your desires, and if you think telling someone to communcate their desires is encouraging hedonism, it just makes my head hurt

  32. I will take the wrong advice for the right reasons if it has the right outcome: Becky and Dina getting back together. But man, Joyce, this is really the wrong way to frame this.

  33. I dunno man, “Get back with Becky even though you know you’ll be settling for being the second place consolation prize!” doesn’t feel like being “selfish” to me. It just feels like a lack of self-respect.

    1. So basically, what you are saying is. you are only allowed to love one partner, EVER. If for whatever reason it doesn’t work out. You can’t date someone else because they will be your consolation prize.
      Dina can never date again, because that person will be her consolation prize. Walky and Joe same boat. Unless you are doing the dumping you can’t date again.

  34. I just want to say, I feel like you people are being incredibly unfair to Becky. Joyce and Becky have known each other their whole lives. Becky has likely been secretly in love with Joyce for years. But Joyce was unattainable and instead of being a creepy stalker Becky went to find someone she could be with romantically. Of course Becky is going to be upset to learn Joyce could be gay for Dorothy but not or her.
    You are allowed to have regrets to have missed opportunities from the past. By you’re guys logic, Joe and Walky will be alone forever because whomever they date next will be second place after Joyce and Dorothy.

    1. well said! i will add that becky may have already replaced joyce with dina at #1 in her heart but still been hurt and reacted badly to her discovery of joyrothy. but if dina doesnt go talk to becky about her desires and thoughts, becky may not come to the realization untill it is truely too late. and joyce knows if she left it to becky that is what would happen, she also knows becky wont want to hear it from joyce. so she goes to dina who she knows may not be aware she has the social license to go talk to becky, and she know dina well enough to know how to let her know it is ok for her to do so, while also allowing for dina to decide if it is really what she wants.

  35. Yeeeessss, go get the Becky, Dina! You want her, take her, she’s yours!

  36. It’s good advice to tell her to not give up on the relationship, to try to talk it through.

    Phrasing it this way though makes no sense in relationship to Dina, what she’s struggling with, and how the relationship fell apart. Dina’s leaving the relationship BECAUSE she has self-respect and knows what she wants and doesn’t, and she doesn’t want to be in a relationship with someone who sees her as second place.

    Joyce’s advice only makes sense in justifying Joyce’s choices as being good.

    You know what? I miss Mike. Willis used Mike to call characters out on their BS all the time. We could have a story with nuance because he would point out *exactly* what was wrong, they would listen, and react. And even if they kept going down a bad path, we could trust that Willis, at least, was grounded and centered.

    I wonder, if Mike was here, if he would compliment Joyce and Dorothy on how adorkable they are.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

*

*

*

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.