Interesting that this, out of everything that’s happened in the last couple days, is what gets Joe angry. I’m not sure why he’s so sure about Becky’s emotional state, but I like seeing it.
That’s certainly true, and I love seeing it, but it’s a bit surprising that this gets him angry when Joyce cheating on him didn’t.
Scottathan
Sometimes its a lot easier to allow yourself an emotional reaction in defense of someone else while you’re trying your best to be cool about some shit happening to you.
Rectilinear Propagation
For some people, it’s a lot easier to get angry on someone else’s behalf than for yourself. I also think it’s because this is also happening to him. Seeing someone upset that they’re the 2nd choice is getting him upset because that’s how he feels.
Bloody Altima
Joe feels like *he* deserves that kind of thing, but he absolutely does not feel that Dina does.
While I think what Joe is saying is essentially accurate and as much as I love the terrible lizbians, I kinda hope they do stay broken up. I feel like there’s interesting stuff to explore with them not in a relationship with each other.
I’d be happy if they got together again, but they have a lot to talk through first. Taking a break would be a good idea, even. Absence makes the heart grow fonder, I suppose.
honestly I think he’s in denial– like, becky *let* dina think she was a second choice instead of trying to clarify. We know she wasn’t over joyce, and we know there were several times where she unconciously prioritized joyce over dina.
Joe sees the best in everyone. Sometimes people aren’t their best, though.
Becky takes Dina for granted sometimes. She convinced herself that she could still be codependent with Joyce and Dina would always love her. If they get back together I hope Becky realizes this isn’t sustainable and she needs to pay more attention to her actual girlfriend.
Adept
Becky is a mess. She needs to get her head straight.
It’ll still be sad if her and Dina are over due to this. Very accurate for teen romance drama, of course.
Did the forum completely change just now? Everything looks weaird, and I’m not sure I remember the correct spell for my long standing gravatar
Becky was upset, and said something she didn’t mean. Nobody really loves their first crush more than their first real relationship. She’s just a dumb teenager like everyone else
Which is weird, because Old Joe never really showed it. One of his big things was never talking about emotional stuff with Dan. Even his attempts to get with women didn’t really rely on emotional intelligence. It seemed to come out of nowhere with Joyce and then become one of his defining characteristics.
anonymsly
I dunno, I think Joe’s emotional intelligence has always been present, it’s just that he’s no longer hiding it behind the shell of ‘I don’t care, I am a sex fiend’ that he used it to construct in the first place. Like, he can always tell when Danny’s ‘casual question’ isn’t casual at all, and it annoys him because ‘dude just ask the question you want to ask so I know how you want me to friend you right now’. Joe has always seen and understood, he just hasn’t actioned that understanding positively until recently.
Also, with his mom on the spectrum, he may genuinely be the best person for Dina to have come to now. He has at least some understanding of how Dina works, so he might actually be able to explain ‘she’s lying to you to hurt herself more because she feels like she deserves to hurt more’ (or ‘Becky hurt herself in her confusion’, for Pokémon fans) which is, to Dina, an inconceivable thing.
Bunivasal
Joe WASN’T emotionally intelligent in his original iterations in the 90s. I don’t think Young David Willis would have imagined that.
No, this emotional intelligence comes from the growth Joe had to do after his Bang List was revealed. When he suddenly had to be extremely intentional about his wants and desires, when he had to approach people like Joyce with caution and he had to read them with an understanding that he was seen as a potential predator, exploiting a weakness.
Ah. I see, Jocelyne has taken over control of the site and we’re currently going through a transitional period. Good for her. Joyce’s time was pretty much up anyway. We all knew this!
As for Joe and Dina? Well obviously don’t trust Joyce or Becky.
Indeed. Becky told herself Joyce isn’t into women in general as a way to cope with being rejected. When that was revealed to be untrue, she crashed out because she finally had to confront the reality that Joyce isn’t romantically attracted to her specifically. That reopened the old wound that she and Dina thought they were past.
Dina’s right that Joe’s coping mechanism is also self-deception.
Joe’s up there with Jennifer in the “most likely to be neurotypical” category, but nothing is certain in this comic. After all, a lot of people apparently thought Dorothy and Joyce were straight!
Daibhid C
Around the time Joyce was not-officially-diagnosed as Probably Neurospicy and Sarah and Dorothy immediately started armchair-diagnosing each other, I compared this to my own sudden reinterpretation of my limitations about a decade ago, when “I don’t think I’d be confident writing a character on the spectrum; I’d be worried about getting it wrong” suddenly shifted to “Have I ever written a character who wasn’t on the spectrum?”
StClair
@Daibhid C : That’s because, like Jennifer, the way you are is normal. Normal.
(“But…” “NORMAL.“)
I’m glad Joe is trying to convince Dina to try to get back together with Becky instead of giving up on her entirely. But it seems a bit odd to me that Joe appears to care more about Dina’s relationship with Becky than he does about the relationship he had with Joyce.
Joe is doing that thing we in the bizz call ‘projection’. These feelings ARE his own feelings about Joyce, right down to the fact that he has refused to give up entirely on Joyce, by offering to go poly. And seeing how Joyce told him she’d get back to him on it, he’s clearly thinking they’re not entirely broken up yet.
Joe is looking for any reason to think about anyone or anything other than himself and his situation right now, he just hasn’t recognized that’s what he’s doing.
Dina has been treated poorly by Becky, but I think Joe is basically correct in his take on the matter. Becky is very hurt that she was not “good enough” for Joyce to discovery her bisexuality about. Becky is doubling down on that because she perceives her exceptional hurt at Joyce being bi for “someone else” equates to her not caring about Dina. She clearly deeply cares for Dina and cannot process right now that she can deeply love two different people in different ways.
She doubled down on it when Dina asks flat out which she would have preferred and Becky (being an all or nothing kind of person) internalized her feelings to be like, “Well, if I’m this upset about Joyce not being bi for me, clearly that means I don’t care as much about Dina”
Becky was truthful about her feelings, honest about how much it hurt her, and that is because she cares about Dina tremendously. Two things can be true at the same time. Becky can love Dina and can also be devastated that her unrequited romantic love, probably her awakening to her own sexuality, chose someone else.
Doesn’t make her love Dina any less, nor does it actually mean TRULY that Dina is second place. Hell, Becky was incredibly honest, straightforward, and vulnerable with Dina about the situation. You don’t do that for someone you don’t love and respect. Joe is going to maybe overly simplify the situation here but as someone who also just sorta discovered and entirely new type of romantic love himself, he has a lot of insight here.
I don’t think Dina did ask flat out which she preferred. In their break-up talk, Dina said it had been a long time since she’d been concerned about it and a clearly already traumatized Becky just said, if you’re going to leave me just do it.
Also, apparently we can’t search by multiple tags anymore?
How much of it is also not feeling “good enough” for her parent(s?) to support her actual true self like Joyce’s dad? It probably seems like everything is going alright for Joyce (even if it actually isn’t) and not going well at all for Becky. It is very easy at that point to say that the source of the difference is that you yourself are not good enough.
179 thoughts on “Emotional hardware”
Astariel
Interesting that this, out of everything that’s happened in the last couple days, is what gets Joe angry. I’m not sure why he’s so sure about Becky’s emotional state, but I like seeing it.
Ado
I would venture he thinks highly of Dina and dislikes seeing her feel like second place, which he correctly groks that she doesn’t deserve.
Astariel
That’s certainly true, and I love seeing it, but it’s a bit surprising that this gets him angry when Joyce cheating on him didn’t.
Scottathan
Sometimes its a lot easier to allow yourself an emotional reaction in defense of someone else while you’re trying your best to be cool about some shit happening to you.
Rectilinear Propagation
For some people, it’s a lot easier to get angry on someone else’s behalf than for yourself. I also think it’s because this is also happening to him. Seeing someone upset that they’re the 2nd choice is getting him upset because that’s how he feels.
Bloody Altima
Joe feels like *he* deserves that kind of thing, but he absolutely does not feel that Dina does.
chuckroast
Joe has your back, Becky.
Bill Erak
BECKY NO- Oh, wait
DINA NO
DON’T TAKE WHAT PEOPLE SAY IN TIMES OF EMOTIONAL TURMOIL LITERALLY
GIRLIE TALK ABOUT THIS
Rose by Any Other Name
Indeed. Dina is very insistent that Joe is the one in self-denial rather than Dina herself.
Rose by Any Other Name
Also – neat! My grav still works.
Lanz
Someone done stuck a PS2 in him cause Joe has got the EMOTION ENGINE a runnin’
jeffepp
Joe ships it hard.
NGPZ
it is confirmed, the ship has indeed sunk
it may be for the best, but it still hurts
🥺😖😖😭😭😭
Morhek
It’s only submerged like a submarine. But it will rise, thanks to Joe.
The Rev
Joe’s pretty good at getting things to rise.
zee
Feels temporary
NGPZ
aye, folks are always like this when their favorite ship sinks,
first there’s denial, then there’s anger, then there’s bargaining, etc etc
frankly, that this ship has sunk is a blessing in disguise
Nymph
I agree, this feels temporary. I hope they grow and change and have a really nice arc about it.
Stormtide Leviathan
While I think what Joe is saying is essentially accurate and as much as I love the terrible lizbians, I kinda hope they do stay broken up. I feel like there’s interesting stuff to explore with them not in a relationship with each other.
mads_in_zero
I’d be happy if they got together again, but they have a lot to talk through first. Taking a break would be a good idea, even. Absence makes the heart grow fonder, I suppose.
Aquila
“Taking a break” … you’ve never watched F·R·I·E·N·D·S, have you?
Giffem
WE WERE ON A BREAK!
o shut up ross…
well now i have to go watch the whole thing again and see ross’s plaster pants breakdown
Olofa
I wish the new interface had upvotes for comments like yours.
Dave Van Domelen
Joe may have the highest emotional intelligence of the cast, which is scary.
dinerkinetic
honestly I think he’s in denial– like, becky *let* dina think she was a second choice instead of trying to clarify. We know she wasn’t over joyce, and we know there were several times where she unconciously prioritized joyce over dina.
Joe sees the best in everyone. Sometimes people aren’t their best, though.
Bash
Becky takes Dina for granted sometimes. She convinced herself that she could still be codependent with Joyce and Dina would always love her. If they get back together I hope Becky realizes this isn’t sustainable and she needs to pay more attention to her actual girlfriend.
Adept
Becky is a mess. She needs to get her head straight.
It’ll still be sad if her and Dina are over due to this. Very accurate for teen romance drama, of course.
Did the forum completely change just now? Everything looks weaird, and I’m not sure I remember the correct spell for my long standing gravatar
geno
Becky was upset, and said something she didn’t mean. Nobody really loves their first crush more than their first real relationship. She’s just a dumb teenager like everyone else
Bajja
Ya for real tho. He used it for selfish purposes but tbh his emotional intelligence is legit
thejeff
Which is weird, because Old Joe never really showed it. One of his big things was never talking about emotional stuff with Dan. Even his attempts to get with women didn’t really rely on emotional intelligence. It seemed to come out of nowhere with Joyce and then become one of his defining characteristics.
anonymsly
I dunno, I think Joe’s emotional intelligence has always been present, it’s just that he’s no longer hiding it behind the shell of ‘I don’t care, I am a sex fiend’ that he used it to construct in the first place. Like, he can always tell when Danny’s ‘casual question’ isn’t casual at all, and it annoys him because ‘dude just ask the question you want to ask so I know how you want me to friend you right now’. Joe has always seen and understood, he just hasn’t actioned that understanding positively until recently.
Also, with his mom on the spectrum, he may genuinely be the best person for Dina to have come to now. He has at least some understanding of how Dina works, so he might actually be able to explain ‘she’s lying to you to hurt herself more because she feels like she deserves to hurt more’ (or ‘Becky hurt herself in her confusion’, for Pokémon fans) which is, to Dina, an inconceivable thing.
Bunivasal
Joe WASN’T emotionally intelligent in his original iterations in the 90s. I don’t think Young David Willis would have imagined that.
No, this emotional intelligence comes from the growth Joe had to do after his Bang List was revealed. When he suddenly had to be extremely intentional about his wants and desires, when he had to approach people like Joyce with caution and he had to read them with an understanding that he was seen as a potential predator, exploiting a weakness.
Joe Helfrich
….so many Usenet flashbacks in one name.
Sirksome
Ah. I see, Jocelyne has taken over control of the site and we’re currently going through a transitional period. Good for her. Joyce’s time was pretty much up anyway. We all knew this!
As for Joe and Dina? Well obviously don’t trust Joyce or Becky.
RassilonTDavros
i hope jakey lives
Yotomoe
Y’know somehow, against all odds. They’re both kinda right.
Needfuldoer
Indeed. Becky told herself Joyce isn’t into women in general as a way to cope with being rejected. When that was revealed to be untrue, she crashed out because she finally had to confront the reality that Joyce isn’t romantically attracted to her specifically. That reopened the old wound that she and Dina thought they were past.
Dina’s right that Joe’s coping mechanism is also self-deception.
Nono
“You can think “yeah oranges are tasty as hell” but be happy with the apple that you got, ‘cause apples are good too.”
Though perhaps Becky isn’t melons.
mads_in_zero
“I am unsure if this food metaphor is helping my understanding.”
“Yeah, sorry.”
Rimwalker55
Dale, May sent you to the wrong apartment.
Taffy
Nice preconceived notions, idiot.
Suet
sweet baby ray, this’ll take some getting used to.
I can’t believe she didn’t like seeing the top of Dina’s head anymore
Thag Simmons
Website redesigns always take a bit of getting used to
Suet
sweet baby ray, this’ll take some getting used to.
I can’t believe she didn’t like seeing the uncovered top of Dina’s head anymore
Slartibeast Button, BIA
Dina needs to check again for reproducibility.
(No, not that kind.)
Blibdoolpoolp
Oooh shiny new buttons! Wait- is Joe about to give some meaningful insight to Dina? Or put his foot in his mouth? *popcorn*
Daibhid C
Why not both?
IntangibleMatter
I had a comment on this comic when it went up, but apparently that was lost when the site underwent a redesign.
Looks neat, unsure exactly how I feel about it as of yet, though.
Anyways yeah Dina listen to Joe.
IntangibleMatter
Update: here’s what my original comment was
Dina, I know that you’re hurt, but Joe is correct here.
I mean, there’s a lot he’s been self-deceptive about lately, but this thing he’s 100% correct on.
Rowen Morland
If it makes it easier to follow a comment chain, then I’m for it.
StClair
Neurotypicals? I don’t believe they exist.
Jo_cubstar
I’m sure they do exist, but I’m not sure Joe is one lol
Mitzi B.
Joe’s up there with Jennifer in the “most likely to be neurotypical” category, but nothing is certain in this comic. After all, a lot of people apparently thought Dorothy and Joyce were straight!
Daibhid C
Around the time Joyce was not-officially-diagnosed as Probably Neurospicy and Sarah and Dorothy immediately started armchair-diagnosing each other, I compared this to my own sudden reinterpretation of my limitations about a decade ago, when “I don’t think I’d be confident writing a character on the spectrum; I’d be worried about getting it wrong” suddenly shifted to “Have I ever written a character who wasn’t on the spectrum?”
StClair
@Daibhid C : That’s because, like Jennifer, the way you are is normal. Normal.
(“But…” “NORMAL.“)
Kyulen
I’m glad Joe is trying to convince Dina to try to get back together with Becky instead of giving up on her entirely. But it seems a bit odd to me that Joe appears to care more about Dina’s relationship with Becky than he does about the relationship he had with Joyce.
Thag Simmons
Joe’s self-worth doesn’t seem to be in a great place right now
Doopyboop
Joe is doing that thing we in the bizz call ‘projection’. These feelings ARE his own feelings about Joyce, right down to the fact that he has refused to give up entirely on Joyce, by offering to go poly. And seeing how Joyce told him she’d get back to him on it, he’s clearly thinking they’re not entirely broken up yet.
GreyICE
That ship has sailed. That ship is currently rounding the cape of good hope. That ship is not coming back.
Christopher
Everyone knows it’s faster to go the other way.
apocryphascribe
Joe is looking for any reason to think about anyone or anything other than himself and his situation right now, he just hasn’t recognized that’s what he’s doing.
Also, hi new site!
StClair
*pokes new comment section warily*
Thag Simmons
Okay this is going to be an adjustment.
ADLegend21
Joe 4 lesbian! Joe has your back Becky!
Snoopy
Dina has been treated poorly by Becky, but I think Joe is basically correct in his take on the matter. Becky is very hurt that she was not “good enough” for Joyce to discovery her bisexuality about. Becky is doubling down on that because she perceives her exceptional hurt at Joyce being bi for “someone else” equates to her not caring about Dina. She clearly deeply cares for Dina and cannot process right now that she can deeply love two different people in different ways.
She doubled down on it when Dina asks flat out which she would have preferred and Becky (being an all or nothing kind of person) internalized her feelings to be like, “Well, if I’m this upset about Joyce not being bi for me, clearly that means I don’t care as much about Dina”
Becky was truthful about her feelings, honest about how much it hurt her, and that is because she cares about Dina tremendously. Two things can be true at the same time. Becky can love Dina and can also be devastated that her unrequited romantic love, probably her awakening to her own sexuality, chose someone else.
Doesn’t make her love Dina any less, nor does it actually mean TRULY that Dina is second place. Hell, Becky was incredibly honest, straightforward, and vulnerable with Dina about the situation. You don’t do that for someone you don’t love and respect. Joe is going to maybe overly simplify the situation here but as someone who also just sorta discovered and entirely new type of romantic love himself, he has a lot of insight here.
thejeff
I don’t think Dina did ask flat out which she preferred. In their break-up talk, Dina said it had been a long time since she’d been concerned about it and a clearly already traumatized Becky just said, if you’re going to leave me just do it.
Also, apparently we can’t search by multiple tags anymore?
Stormtide Leviathan
Oh shit yeah, so we can’t. That’s unfortunate
Kimi
How much of it is also not feeling “good enough” for her parent(s?) to support her actual true self like Joyce’s dad? It probably seems like everything is going alright for Joyce (even if it actually isn’t) and not going well at all for Becky. It is very easy at that point to say that the source of the difference is that you yourself are not good enough.
thejeff
I agree there’s a lot more going on with Becky than just “Joyce is into girls, but not me”. Dina doesn’t realize that though.
thumb
Yay, Joe! I don’t know if you’re right but I hope you are.
Zamperla