Dumbing of Age Book Twelve

Dumbing of Age

A college webcomic by David Willis
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May 12, 2026

Startled

by David M Willis on November 26, 2023 at 12:01 am
  • 02 – It's The Love I Haven't Got
└ Tags: dorothy, joe, joyce

Discussion (258) ¬

[ Comments RSS ]
  1. Ana Chronistic
    Ana Chronistic
    November 26, 2023 at 12:01 am | #

    *looks at the equipment* “make that a seventh wheel”

    • Decidedly Orthogonal
      Decidedly Orthogonal
      November 26, 2023 at 1:09 am | #

      Floor and ceiling, eight, ninth wheel.
      1, 2 walls, 10, 11th wheel.
      3rd, fourth wall… oh fuck!

    • PirateTawnee
      PirateTawnee
      November 26, 2023 at 2:42 am | #

      Another (rightful and expected) blow to the “more doors than wheels” faction. Gosh that was a weird week in internet history.

      • Decidedly Orthogonal
        Decidedly Orthogonal
        November 26, 2023 at 7:23 pm | #

        Do you count hinges as wheels? (as they allow the door to roll/rotate)

  2. Doopyboop
    Doopyboop
    November 26, 2023 at 12:02 am | #

    Dorothy if you’re gonna go into a job relating to people you really gotta learn how to stop being so ableist.

    • Bryy
      Bryy
      November 26, 2023 at 12:05 am | #

      YUP.

      FUCKING YUP.

      YUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUP.

      • NGPZ
        NGPZ
        November 26, 2023 at 12:11 am | #

        It will be some arc when she finally confronts the fact she’s probably autistic herself. A task that’s difficult but well worth it (believe me, I know)

        • Doopyboop
          Doopyboop
          November 26, 2023 at 12:29 am | #

          I definitely agree that she is at least some flavor of neurodivergent herself if not outright autistic. If she thinks having PTSD would keep her from becoming President than she would definitely combust over a diagnosis like that.

          • Needfuldoer
            Needfuldoer
            November 26, 2023 at 9:16 am | #

            She’s keenly aware of the possibility and its implications, which could make her actively avoid a diagnosis so she doesn’t catch the label. (She’s already sabotaging her own therapy sessions to save her future self’s image.)

            https://www.dumbingofage.com/inwithyou/

            • HueSatLight
              HueSatLight
              November 26, 2023 at 11:32 am | #

              I know that it’s not good healthwise. But a diagnosis isn’t just a label that might hurt a presidential candidate’s image.

              In Missouri, the AG made an emergency rule that trans people couldn’t get gender affirming care until “providers ensured that any existing mental health comorbidities of the patient have been treated and resolved”. Dorothy’s not trans, but it’s plausible the GOP will strip someone’s rights if they have a depression or PTSD or autism diagnosis, because they are already doing it.

              • Needfuldoer
                Needfuldoer
                November 26, 2023 at 9:23 pm | #

                If anyone needs me, I’ll be in the angry dome.

                • NGPZ
                  NGPZ
                  November 27, 2023 at 12:00 am | #

                  I feel much the same, can I join you?

    • Jeremiah
      Jeremiah
      November 26, 2023 at 12:06 am | #

      Okay, as an autistic person I gotta say that calling this specific moment “ableist” is a huge exaggeration. At worst it is just a bit cringe but we’ll intentioned.

    • Thag Simmons
      Thag Simmons
      November 26, 2023 at 12:15 am | #

      Eh, that’s not really a dealbreaker in US politics.

      • NGPZ
        NGPZ
        November 26, 2023 at 12:23 am | #

        Yeah, what’s going on with Dorothy is that she’s modeling herself on expectations for the majority of politicians in the white establishment who are a lot more likely to work on *behalf* of minorities instead of with us.

        If she truly desires to help people, she needs to see the race for presidency for what it really IS as opposed to what it’s *supposed* to be. She must renounce magical thinking and embrace empirical evidence.

        • UrsulaDavina
          UrsulaDavina
          November 26, 2023 at 1:19 am | #

          Since when have politicians embraced anything resembling empirical evidence? Not just the US it’s in every nation and it extends across the political spectrum.

          • Psychie
            Psychie
            November 26, 2023 at 4:36 am | #

            Insofar as the successful ones are the ones who get good at “playing the game”, I’d argue they embrace empirical evidence in at least one case, at that is “what works”. The way you succeed in politics is pretty well documented, and Dorothy is missing it, while the successful politicians are not.

            • UrsulaDavina
              UrsulaDavina
              November 26, 2023 at 2:06 pm | #

              Depends on the empirical evidence if such empirical evidence runs contrary to their political views or what their constituents and or parties opinion, they are more then willing to ignore it.

              • Psychie
                Psychie
                November 28, 2023 at 7:17 pm | #

                No, you’re generalizing, I’m talking about a very specific thing. They do whatever is needed to get ahead in the polls, most relevantly lies and deceit. Plenty of historical evidence backs up that having a flexible relationship with the truth and compromising morality to get ahead is what works, and successful politicians do that, as they have been doing for centuries. Studies have been done on this, history shows it works consistently, and so it’s what successful politicians learn to get very good at, because it demonstrably works. That literally means they follow empirical evidence, at least in this one specific area. You are welcome to have a low opinion of politicians, they’ve certainly done enough to deserve it, but you are letting your bias cloud your comprehension of the facts.

                Genuinely honest politicians rarely get very far, and the only time a dishonest politician deals in the truth is when it specifically benefits them, or when they’ve been caught in their deceptions and have no other choice if they want to try to salvage things. Dishonest politicians are competent, at least in this specific area if nowhere else, and to try to downplay how deliberate and studied they are in their deception is to underestimate them.

                Don’t confuse your bias with reality, that’s how you get taken advantage of.

      • Doopyboop
        Doopyboop
        November 26, 2023 at 12:31 am | #

        The reason I didn’t say specifically regarding politics is because, with Dorothy starting to realize her dreams of Presidency are a bit… unrealistic, she’s probably gonna have to change her career path. I think Dorothy would enjoy any sort of job that’s in service of people and helping to use her diplomatic skills, but man she’s really gotta get out of her head when it comes to interacting with people she’s not used to if this is how she treats someone who is autistic.

        • Psychie
          Psychie
          November 26, 2023 at 4:45 am | #

          Meh, there’s a learning curve, she figured out her friend probably has autism, so she did a LOT of reading, and now she’s having trouble separating what she read about autism cases with what she knows about her friend. It’s the same nonsense that has first year psych students diagnosing themselves and their acquaintances with half the DSM after they’ve read it the first time. I’ve found that a lot of people who value having a high empathy as part of their personality tend to fall into that trap. Thankfully it isn’t that hard to get them out of it with a solid dose of reality, at least so long as they aren’t the arrogant or narcissistic type of helpers (and I’m fairly certain Dorothy isn’t).

          Besides, this particular instance isn’t as unwarranted as some people are making it out to be, Joyce started acting weird right after Dorothy touched her, Dorothy just spent a bunch of time reading about autism after learning Joyce might have it, so it isn’t much of a leap for her brain to think those are dots to connect when they aren’t.

          • Shade
            Shade
            November 26, 2023 at 6:45 am | #

            Given how quickly she backed off the Joe thing despite having a lot of background knowledge about what he used to be like when she finally actually saw how they were together, yeah I think she’ll be able to handle getting out of that trap.

            She’s clearly capable of recognising when she’s wrong sooner or later and correcting.

          • Mark
            Mark
            November 26, 2023 at 8:42 am | #

            A couple of things to notice: (1) Dorothy had no evidence that those dots don’t connect until after she touched Joyce, advanced a hypothesis and heard it denied; (2) Joyce hasn’t offered any evidence supporting any other hypothesis. An unsupported denial is a fairly weak argument, and takes longer to sink in.

            • Doopyboop
              Doopyboop
              November 26, 2023 at 9:03 pm | #

              1) Dorothy has also known Joyce for 5 months and that is enough time to discern whether your friend usually likes to be touched or not.

              2) Most people might not appreciate being touched on the small of their back and pushed further to the ground, albeit in a gentle manner, without a proper warning or knowledge that such a thing is happening.

      • AbacusWizard
        AbacusWizard
        November 26, 2023 at 12:38 am | #

        * laugh-cries in American *

      • Alongcameaspider
        Alongcameaspider
        November 26, 2023 at 1:00 am | #

        If anything it might help her

      • GreyICE
        GreyICE
        November 26, 2023 at 5:19 am | #

        In a closed society where everybody’s guilty, the only crime is getting caught. In a world of thieves, the only final sin is stupidity. – RIP HST

    • Angel
      Angel
      November 26, 2023 at 2:05 am | #

      if anything given the way walky basically joked about joyce having a girlcrush on dorothy she’d prolly love touching/being touch starved more than the opposite

      (well i woudln’t want a strnager touching me but i def am physically clingy to my friends)

  3. Slartibeast Button, BIA
    Slartibeast Button, BIA
    November 26, 2023 at 12:02 am | #

    “Who are *They*?”

    ‘They are anyone who wants to be one of Them.’

    • Mark
      Mark
      November 26, 2023 at 8:44 am | #

      “They” are anybody We don’t want to be one of Us.

  4. Ty34er
    Ty34er
    November 26, 2023 at 12:02 am | #

    Does the font look weird on this one?

    • Slartibeast Button, BIA
      Slartibeast Button, BIA
      November 26, 2023 at 12:03 am | #

      It does to me.

      • Slartibeast Button, BIA
        Slartibeast Button, BIA
        November 26, 2023 at 12:04 am | #

        Like everything was bold before and now it isn’t.

        • Cattleprod
          Cattleprod
          November 26, 2023 at 12:06 am | #

          Yeah, I was checking the comments to see if anyone else noticed that.

          • Vanessa
            Vanessa
            November 26, 2023 at 12:26 am | #

            It is harder to read, very light. And looks a bit jagged or pixelated.

    • HueSatLight
      HueSatLight
      November 26, 2023 at 12:05 am | #

      It’s lighter weight. Like the weight from the small text (Joyce counting) was accidentally applied to all of it.

      • BarerMender
        BarerMender
        November 26, 2023 at 10:23 am | #

        Also, is Joyce saying “and 6 and 7,” or is that “and 5 and 7”? I’m pretty sure it’s a 5.

        • HueSatLight
          HueSatLight
          November 26, 2023 at 11:51 am | #

          zoomed in, it looks like a 6 to me. But I like the idea of her skipping from 5 to 7 because she’s a little startled.

          • HueSatLight
            HueSatLight
            November 26, 2023 at 11:53 am | #

            hmm… how did this happen?

          • BarerMender
            BarerMender
            November 27, 2023 at 7:29 am | #

            Or because she’s shortening the count on purpose.

        • HueSatLight
          HueSatLight
          November 26, 2023 at 11:53 am | #

          zoomed in, it looks like a 6 to me. But I like the idea of her skipping from 5 to 7 because she’s a little startled and distracted by having to say she’s not startled so Dorothy doesn’t make a bigger deal out of it.

    • RassilonTDavros
      RassilonTDavros
      November 26, 2023 at 12:08 am | #

      The lineart gets thinner between panels 2 and 3 as well. A preview of art shifts to come, perhaps?

      • AbacusWizard
        AbacusWizard
        November 26, 2023 at 12:39 am | #

        I think the shading and/or coloring is different? but I’m not entirely sure how to describe the difference.

        • Mark
          Mark
          November 26, 2023 at 8:45 am | #

          It’s a holiday weekend. The graphics are stuffed with turkey and a little sleepy.

    • Doopyboop
      Doopyboop
      November 26, 2023 at 12:32 am | #

      Thank god it’s not just me, all the text looks skinnier and thinner and it almost gives me a headache to look at.

    • EpochFlame
      EpochFlame
      November 26, 2023 at 12:38 am | #

      Yeah, was setting if anyone else noticed

    • AbacusWizard
      AbacusWizard
      November 26, 2023 at 12:38 am | #

      Yes. Or *different*, at least.

    • Taffy
      Taffy
      November 26, 2023 at 12:54 am | #

      Very. It looks like somebody took white-out over existing text and penciled in their own dialogue.

      • NGPZ
        NGPZ
        November 26, 2023 at 1:04 am | #

        Yeah, looks like the product of an edit or something ?_?

    • Amós Batista
      Amós Batista
      November 26, 2023 at 2:00 am | #

      It’s funny, because the font is tinnier than yesterday, and draw contour is thicker since last year (comparing with two years ago)

    • Angel
      Angel
      November 26, 2023 at 2:06 am | #

      feels like it’s shrunk, or it’s the same font but a smaller size/not bolded or so (idk if willis has a set font for his comics or made a font out of his own handwriting)

    • Diane
      Diane
      November 26, 2023 at 5:28 am | #

      I noticed this too. I thought they were whispering or something, but none of that makes sense. Maybe a line or two, but not the entire conversation.

    • Needfuldoer
      Needfuldoer
      November 26, 2023 at 9:21 am | #

      I think this one was somehow scaled differently. The linework in the art came out smoother, but it made the text a little fuzzier.

  5. Amara
    Amara
    November 26, 2023 at 12:03 am | #

    I don’t think I’ve ever seen Dorothy be quite so foot in mouth as todays strip. That wasn’t very cash money of you.

    • Bryy
      Bryy
      November 26, 2023 at 12:08 am | #

      The “with my hands” is a dead giveaway that she wants to impress. And knowing Dotty, impress translates into dominate.

      • Tan
        Tan
        November 26, 2023 at 1:59 am | #

        Truly you have a dizzying understanding of these characters

      • Shade
        Shade
        November 26, 2023 at 8:17 am | #

        I don’t think you understand her character very well at all.

        Is it possible you’re projecting people who are like that onto a character whose not, based on some similar seeming behaviours that have completely different motivations and come from a different intent?

        Yes some people talk about the things they read to try and flex and show off.

        Here we have someone rambling and putting their foot in their mouth.

        • Mark
          Mark
          November 26, 2023 at 8:49 am | #

          Indeed. “Oops, I got this wrong, and compounded it by trying to explain. Leave mouth in free-running mode while I think.”

          I hate when that happens.

  6. NGPZ
    NGPZ
    November 26, 2023 at 12:03 am | #

    Well Dorothy, you shouldn’t touch without asking regardless.

    But yes, some autistic folk do have aversion to touch without consent.

    I know I do. Albeit I very much anticipate consensual touch from my future GF (*sigh*)

    • Masumi
      Masumi
      November 26, 2023 at 1:25 am | #

      Well, she did ask, just not very understandably how she meant it.

    • Azhrei Vep
      Azhrei Vep
      November 26, 2023 at 6:28 am | #

      And so do some who don’t! Because it’s awful and sucks, how do you other people tolerate it? Eugh. Gives me the willies. Gross willies.

    • Shade
      Shade
      November 26, 2023 at 8:04 am | #

      The thing is she thought she had it was a miscommunication on that front. She thought Joyce understood what she meant and then was thrown off by what she assumed was a change in Joyce’s boundaries.

      The fault is still entirely hers of course and she could be handling this a lot better.

      • thejeff
        thejeff
        November 26, 2023 at 10:32 am | #

        She could be handling this better, but she’s not handling it that badly. She thought she’d communicated correctly about touching Joyce, pulled back when she realized otherwise.
        She’s over explaining and digging herself deeper, but that’s understandable.

        • Tan
          Tan
          November 26, 2023 at 2:47 pm | #

          Dorothy saw something she could help with, but realized she she needed Joyce’s consent before doing so, so asked for it (that’s good!). There was a miscommunication what exactly she was asking (that’s bad, but an honest mistake). Dorothy realized she made a mistake, stopped, and tried to figure out what the mistake was (that’s good!). She further mistakenly connected the dots between this and something she read (that’s bad), then verbalized to confirm (that’s good!). When Joyce denied it, Dorothy discarded the notion (that’s good!).

          So yeah, a lot of missteps, and ones she should really offer an apology for, but mistakes are how we learn and grow.

    • ProtoMan
      ProtoMan
      November 26, 2023 at 2:45 pm | #

      Yeah I was gonna say, I think that “yo, don’t just touch me out of nowhere” is hardly a thing that’s restricted to autistic people.

  7. Stephen Bierce
    Stephen Bierce
    November 26, 2023 at 12:06 am | #

    “I’ll plead the Fifth.”

    • Slartibeast Button, BIA
      Slartibeast Button, BIA
      November 26, 2023 at 12:08 am | #

      Make mine a quart.

  8. Bryy
    Bryy
    November 26, 2023 at 12:06 am | #

    Literally could not wait to try that one out, could you, Dotty?

    • Jo_Cubstar
      Jo_Cubstar
      November 26, 2023 at 2:19 am | #

      What are you even talking about?

      • Bryy
        Bryy
        November 26, 2023 at 2:26 am | #

        Non-disabled people love to flaunt how they “know stuff”.

        • eh, whatever
          eh, whatever
          November 26, 2023 at 5:58 am | #

          Dorothy doesn’t flaunt; she’s not social enough to have that concept available!

          The knowledge just gushes forth from her, and she doesn’t think of considering the occasion and stopping it.

        • Shade
          Shade
          November 26, 2023 at 8:00 am | #

          Studying is how Dorothy handles things. Of course she read up on autism, that’s who she is.

          But despite how much stuff she studies how often does she actually go on about her knowledge? Pretty rarely. She doesn’t study to show off, she studies to learn.

          She probably wouldn’t even have mentioned reading up at all if she hadn’t gotten thrown off by a perceived shift in Joyce’s boundaries and defaulted to what she read.

          Like all fault is on her right now yes, and she’s absolutely putting her foot in it. But this is not Dorothy trying to be “I read a book, I’m the autism expert praise me.”

          • lyzyrdwyzyrd
            lyzyrdwyzyrd
            November 26, 2023 at 10:02 am | #

            Yeah. I’m guilty of the same thing as Dotty here, except for my own disorder.
            Which is not a good thing to do FYI.

  9. BBCC
    BBCC
    November 26, 2023 at 12:08 am | #

    Geez, Joe, do basic math!

    • BBCC
      BBCC
      November 26, 2023 at 12:08 am | #

      Uh, no.

  10. RassilonTDavros
    RassilonTDavros
    November 26, 2023 at 12:09 am | #

    “Oh hey Joyce, now that I know you’re autistic I’m gonna completely ignore my actual knowledge of you and leap to assumptions based on generalizations!”

    • Bryy
      Bryy
      November 26, 2023 at 12:13 am | #

      Exactly what Joyce was afraid of.

    • NGPZ
      NGPZ
      November 26, 2023 at 12:14 am | #

      👏 👏 👏 💯

    • jeffepp
      jeffepp
      November 26, 2023 at 12:17 am | #

      Joyce has a history of being touchy feely with people, not something I would expect from someone touch averse. And, yeah Dottie should know this.

      • Archieve
        Archieve
        November 26, 2023 at 12:42 am | #

        Hoping maybe Joe calls Dorothy out on this in private later. You know Joyce, Dorothy a generic autism book isn’t going to teach you more then you already know about your friend s likes and dislikes.

        • Shade
          Shade
          November 26, 2023 at 6:57 am | #

          Yes, but studying is how she handles things new to her.

          At least she’s self aware enough to realise what an ass she’s making of herself, that should probably help her correct course in the future.

      • Nono
        Nono
        November 26, 2023 at 1:25 am | #

        Joyce is very touch averse… in that she doesn’t like her food touching.

      • Needfuldoer
        Needfuldoer
        November 26, 2023 at 9:25 am | #

        Joyce was surprised because she didn’t expect Dorothy to be there.

        Dorothy projected that onto the “Autistic person” template she read all about.

    • Shade
      Shade
      November 26, 2023 at 7:45 am | #

      Except she didn’t?

      She didn’t assume Joyce hated touching. She literally touched Joyce after asking if she wanted help and then was surprised when it seemed like maybe Joyce’s boundaries had changed.

      That’s when she jumped to the book, which while not the best response isn’t the same as assuming everything you know about a person is wrong because you read it.

      • morleuca
        morleuca
        November 26, 2023 at 8:19 am | #

        Right, she’s just misinterpreting Joyce’s reaction to being touched by someone she has a very confusing set of feelings for, while she is in a mild state of arousal due to her proximity to Joe’s barely clad rear.

        • Needfuldoer
          Needfuldoer
          November 26, 2023 at 9:27 am | #

          Exactly. Joyce was caught off guard because she was distracted, and didn’t expect Dorothy to be there.

          • thejeff
            thejeff
            November 26, 2023 at 10:35 am | #

            Not really that she didn’t expect her to be there, since Dorothy did ask about showing her how to do the stretch correctly, but about being touched to adjust her position rather than having Dorothy demonstrate.

            The reaction came after she already know Dorothy was there.

    • DashWallkick
      DashWallkick
      November 26, 2023 at 11:53 am | #

      TBF as a guy who married an autistic woman, it can be hard to know where to start when you’re trying to make them more comfortable, so you tend to just err towards “I learned this about another autistic” and go from there. Dotty just has the additional problem of being a book nerd who thinks she’s good with people.

  11. Yotomoe
    Yotomoe
    November 26, 2023 at 12:09 am | #

    New Font?

    • True Survivor
      True Survivor
      November 26, 2023 at 12:21 am | #

      I believe so. I am not sure if it is an improvement or not yet. It looks pretty, but till I get used to it, I will likely continue to read the new font as if the characters are whispering the whole time.

      • Bryy
        Bryy
        November 26, 2023 at 2:27 am | #

        Oh, I love it. It’s so clean.

    • fudo81
      fudo81
      November 27, 2023 at 3:42 am | #

      Not really. Look for Willis’s reply to A’s comment

  12. Sirksome
    Sirksome
    November 26, 2023 at 12:10 am | #

    Everyone needs an extra wheel though. What if you get a flat tire?

    • Needfuldoer
      Needfuldoer
      November 26, 2023 at 9:27 am | #

      A fifth-wheel is more of a trailer, though. (Which I always took as a misnomer; the trailer itself almost always has more than one additional wheel.)

      • NickG
        NickG
        November 26, 2023 at 2:22 pm | #

        The ‘fifth wheel’ is the plate the trailer on an artic locks into, not an actual wheel-with-a tyre.

  13. DailyBrad
    DailyBrad
    November 26, 2023 at 12:11 am | #

    I get that Dorothy is clearly trying to do the homework, and I appreciate that, but it’s really clear how little experience she has in this area, and she’s (obviously unintentionally) othering her best friend in the process, which isn’t cool. Granted, their dynamic needs to evolve, they need to be on equal footing instead of Dorothy being the Problem Solver and Joyce being the one who needs help all the time in her eyes, but this isn’t helping that.

    I do wonder if this is part of Joe’s side-eye here, given his mother and his own experience with the topic of autism, something he seems more comfortable around than Dorothy currently is, though it could also just be that he’s trying to spend time with his girlfriend, and Dorothy’s being a distraction.

    At least Dorothy’s aware of her kind of accidentally plopping right into two different situations, she isn’t oblivious to that.

    • NGPZ
      NGPZ
      November 26, 2023 at 12:14 am | #

      Yeah, what’s going on here is clearly a micro-aggression on Dotty’s behalf, she’ll be so much happier and at peace once she confronts her internalized ableism and eventually accepts that she’s (probably) autistic herself.

      • DailyBrad
        DailyBrad
        November 26, 2023 at 12:19 am | #

        I don’t think she’s autistic, honestly, but I can buy that she definitely has anxiety problems, among other things.

        • Coatl
          Coatl
          November 26, 2023 at 12:23 am | #

          I agree on that point, but I have a question: Was Joyce really diagnosed with autism?

          • Bryy
            Bryy
            November 26, 2023 at 12:27 am | #

            Doesn’t matter for Dotty to be ableist AF.

          • Taffy
            Taffy
            November 26, 2023 at 12:38 am | #

            No.

            • Coatl
              Coatl
              November 26, 2023 at 12:41 am | #

              I already checked the previous moments, and yes, no

          • NGPZ
            NGPZ
            November 26, 2023 at 12:47 am | #

            Women and minorities are very disproportionately undiagnosed because of systematic bigotries that have plagued the medical system for decades. Lack of diagnosis is really no means by which to invalidate the possibility, to say the least.

            • Doopyboop
              Doopyboop
              November 26, 2023 at 12:51 am | #

              Plus, I know from experience that once you’re no longer a minor, many doctors seem to decide that it doesn’t matter if you might have some form of neurodivergence (or, assume that you’ve grown out of it??) and don’t really attempt to diagnose adults. So, hard agree to your points raised here.

              • NGPZ
                NGPZ
                November 26, 2023 at 1:09 am | #

                Yeah, anyone else here read the idea that autism / ADHD can just be “grown out of” as especially infantilizing and ableist? T_T

                • Needfuldoer
                  Needfuldoer
                  November 26, 2023 at 9:33 am | #

                  I had a teacher who thought she could “just snap [me] out of it”.

                  This was the same teacher who once grabbed the textbook out of my lap and slammed it down on my desk (and consequentially my glasses) because I was “reading wrong”.

                • NGPZ
                  NGPZ
                  November 26, 2023 at 3:16 pm | #

                  😭🫂

                  It. Never. Gets. Any. Easier.

                • Needfuldoer
                  Needfuldoer
                  November 26, 2023 at 5:11 pm | #

                  This was over 20 years ago.

                  It gets better.

                • NGPZ
                  NGPZ
                  November 26, 2023 at 8:44 pm | #

                  🥺 You really think so?

              • Shade
                Shade
                November 26, 2023 at 7:41 am | #

                Its also just very expensive to get these kinds of things diagnosed as an adult. There’s a lot of programs to make it more affordable for kids, not so much for adults.

                • Mark
                  Mark
                  November 26, 2023 at 9:01 am | #

                  Probably because millions of parents have been lobbying for their kids for many years, but how much effort has gone into even pointing out that neurodivergent children eventually become neurodivergent adults?

            • lyzyrdwyzyrd
              lyzyrdwyzyrd
              November 26, 2023 at 9:37 am | #

              @NGPZ: Overall, definitely agree. See Dina.

              With Joyce though.. she was homeschooled. So an environment that was probably more accommodating of her in that regard. She’s not running into bullies and the like. And many social issues also overlap with being sheltered and home schooled.

              And she hasn’t been diagnosed yet, she’s had a doctor say, basically ‘you should be evaluated’ but she hasn’t been yet because plot and also certain level of avoidance on Joyce’s behalf. Understandable avoidance, for sure.

              • thejeff
                thejeff
                November 26, 2023 at 10:39 am | #

                Also because “US medical system”. That recommendation was less than a week ago. Without a time skip it would be completely unrealistic to have even a first visit with a specialist by now, even if she’d had no hesitation and made an appointment on the spot.

            • zee
              zee
              November 26, 2023 at 1:16 pm | #

              Yeah the fact that a doctor even said “you MIGHT have it, get the checked out” is a miracle

          • DailyBrad
            DailyBrad
            November 26, 2023 at 12:49 am | #

            She has not been, but she’s had it suggested to be something she gets checked out.

            Honestly, though, it is probable that she does have it, though she hasn’t really had time and opportunity yet to get it further explored. Normally, I’d think it was maybe Joyce dragging it out, much like she did with her glasses and the birth control, but this is pretty recent and I just genuinely think she hasn’t really had a good time to do it yet.

            • lyzyrdwyzyrd
              lyzyrdwyzyrd
              November 26, 2023 at 9:39 am | #

              Speaking from experience, ‘you might have a life altering psychiatric disability ‘ is a bigger thing to handle than other medical issues.

              • DailyBrad
                DailyBrad
                November 26, 2023 at 9:02 pm | #

                I am not overly keen on describing autism as a disability, but I get what you’re saying. It’s also the sort of thing that is more difficult to get material help with given her eyes and her reproductive system are both physical things where there are more immediate remedies, so yeah, it’s a bit more complex for Joyce to tackle. In any case, I do think Joyce is taking it seriously, given her interactions with Dina about it, her talking to Becky about it, etc, it’s not her neglecting it to avoid change.

        • Archieve
          Archieve
          November 26, 2023 at 12:50 am | #

          She definitely struggles in terms of understanding social cues regardless of what she might or might not be diagnosed with, looks like on some level shes trying to fix Joyce constantly becaisd in her mind she can’t have a problem if she’s the one fixing all the problems.

          • NGPZ
            NGPZ
            November 26, 2023 at 5:31 am | #

            That, and she seems to have a strong desire for routine, and as Sarah puts it, “her brain is like a spread sheet”.

            Perhaps Dotty should hang out with Dina more. Now that’d be some interesting chemistry, to say the least.

            • lyzyrdwyzyrd
              lyzyrdwyzyrd
              November 26, 2023 at 9:52 am | #

              I’m not saying Dotty isn’t autistic, but I don’t read her as autistic.
              She actually reminds me of myself a LOT.
              Academically gifted, high strung, lot of drive*, need for organization, find socializing awkward.

              *this went away as far as I can tell

              I’m not autistic. I literally got tested for it. Well, I got tested for ADHD and based on the results they were like ‘we could test you for autism, but based on your responses today it would be a waste of your time to be evaluated.”

              In my case, my autistic coded traits are a mixture of symptomatic of other conditions, or coping mechanisms for the same. I’m bipolar, I have Generalized Anxiety Disorder, Panic Disorder, and agoraphobia. I also could be said to have a brain like a spreadsheet, I make lots of them for my job. I could happily write training manuals all day and be happy.

              I don’t think Dotty has autism, nor bipolar.
              I think she has a variety of personality flaws, high anxiety, depression, and high organizational skills.

              It’s also entirely possible that she is autistic and my reading of her as not being autistic is because I identify with her so much. Except I never wanted to be President, and I’m a man.

    • Coatl
      Coatl
      November 26, 2023 at 12:21 am | #

      We know that Dorothy has no bad intentions, but after the last interaction they had, it is clear that the blonde will put Joyce as a real priority, and that is really scary, because for a moment if things reach chaos, she or Joyce They will be able to say something they may regret.

      • Mark
        Mark
        November 26, 2023 at 9:04 am | #

        I think they both need to say a few things they’ll regret, and work it out.

        • Coatl
          Coatl
          November 26, 2023 at 9:19 pm | #

          Indeed

    • RoseLaflesh
      RoseLaflesh
      November 26, 2023 at 10:25 pm | #

      I think you have the best reply out of everyone. You acknowledge that she’s trying, but at the same time has some internalized ideas that she needs to work through.

  14. jeffepp
    jeffepp
    November 26, 2023 at 12:12 am | #

    What Joyce is saying is she isn’t adverse to Dorothy touching her. Joe might be, but Joyce is juuuust fine with touching.

    • Mark
      Mark
      November 26, 2023 at 9:08 am | #

      I dunno, I think Joyce has a vague sense that there is something unusual specifically about Dorothy touching her. And I suspect that she has thought about it just enough to decide that she does not want to think about it more.

    • Needfuldoer
      Needfuldoer
      November 26, 2023 at 9:38 am | #

      Dorothy caught her off-guard, which surprised her, then projected that reaction onto her mental image of an Autistic person despite everything she knows about Joyce.

    • HueSatLight
      HueSatLight
      November 26, 2023 at 2:20 pm | #

      Joe’s reaction doesn’t seem to be jealousy here. Joyce was bent over, Dorothy came out of nowhere and put her hands on her from behind without asking for real, and Joe’s reaction is a generic, “do you realize you’re being a third wheel?”
      And Joyce’s reaction doesn’t read to me like what “juuuust fine with touching” implies. “I’m not … I’m not startled” sounds like it’s closer to a mild surprise than aroused.

  15. HueSatLight
    HueSatLight
    November 26, 2023 at 12:12 am | #

    Surprise third wheel to inviting herself to take the lead in a matter of seconds.

    • Needfuldoer
      Needfuldoer
      November 26, 2023 at 9:38 am | #

      Dorothy is as Dorothy does.

  16. DarkoNeko
    DarkoNeko
    November 26, 2023 at 12:13 am | #

    oh Joe~

  17. 3oranges
    3oranges
    November 26, 2023 at 12:14 am | #

    Ha ha Dorothy tried reading up on what autism is like in hopes of better helping her friend, but is doing a bad job of it, like it’s new to her or something. What an awful human being. You never saw Joyce being this awkward around her.

    • Taffy
      Taffy
      November 26, 2023 at 12:21 am | #

      She’s a real tool, trying to do something she has no experience with and not being immediately good at it. The nerve.

      • Bryy
        Bryy
        November 26, 2023 at 12:29 am | #

        It’s Dorothy.

        Everything she does is performative on some level. She’s also incredibly ableist.

        • Taffy
          Taffy
          November 26, 2023 at 12:35 am | #

          We don’t agree, you and I. That’s fine, too.

        • NGPZ
          NGPZ
          November 26, 2023 at 12:44 am | #

          Performative? I can see how a lot of that about her exists in negative space. She’s fixated her entire life on being president, and as with any position in which being the everyman confer power upon you, it’s just as much, if not more, about what you AREN’T.

          In other words, the allure of grandure of being president is a means by which The System silences her true self.

        • Shade
          Shade
          November 26, 2023 at 7:38 am | #

          She’s conscious of her image due to political ambitions.

          But the idea everything she does is about putting on a performance and not because she wants to do the right thing is pretty strange. That’s even why she’s struggling right now, she’s realising how naive the idea of doing the right thing and getting elected president is.

        • zee
          zee
          November 26, 2023 at 1:21 pm | #

          That is plainly untrue

      • HueSatLight
        HueSatLight
        November 26, 2023 at 12:57 am | #

        I don’t think she knows she’s not immediately good at things, and doesn’t have to be.

        • thejeff
          thejeff
          November 26, 2023 at 10:42 am | #

          I think she knows she isn’t, but thinks she has to be. Which is why she studies so hard. That doesn’t make her immediately good at things, but it probably does give her a leg up on people who who don’t in most situations.

          • HueSatLight
            HueSatLight
            November 26, 2023 at 12:13 pm | #

            This isn’t just a “let’s split the difference” thing.
            I think she recognizes when she’s not, but still thinks she will be immediately good at things. Her downward spiral seems to be powered by cognitive dissonance. Maybe I’m just seeing what I’m familiar with.

      • Mark
        Mark
        November 26, 2023 at 9:12 am | #

        Hear, hear!

      • Needfuldoer
        Needfuldoer
        November 26, 2023 at 9:39 am | #

        Reading up on Autism doesn’t make her a tool.

        Overwriting things she knows about her friend with things she reads about Autism makes her a tool.

    • Axel
      Axel
      November 26, 2023 at 1:02 am | #

      I’m annoyed with her ignoring what she DOES know about Joyce to follow what she found in a book, not with the fact that she tried to read up and be helpful

      • eskimolos
        eskimolos
        November 26, 2023 at 3:11 am | #

        Something that, as an autistic, we often do? We lose certainty in what we think we know about loved ones based on what we read in books. If something is ableist here it’s the reaction from some in the community seeing Dorothy try to help Joyce from a place of good intentions and anxiety over unfamiliarity, and deciding to attack her for it.

        • Axel
          Axel
          November 26, 2023 at 6:40 am | #

          I understand your point and neither of us know what Dorothy’s head so I can’t actually refute you, but this reads to me more like she would rather go by that book knowledge than trust Joyce on knowing (and having known) herself. And that would probably be because Dorothy’s feeling too destabilized right now to have hard conversations when reading is an option, so it’s understandable, but it’s still not good.

          • thejeff
            thejeff
            November 26, 2023 at 10:43 am | #

            Seems more like she’s questioning her own knowledge of Joyce and latching onto a book fact to cover something that seemed out of character.

          • Archieve
            Archieve
            November 26, 2023 at 2:03 pm | #

            She does have a bad habit of relying on citing data in social interactions when a more personal approach is needed.

    • Nono
      Nono
      November 26, 2023 at 1:26 am | #

      I think reading up on it is fine, loudly declaring that you’ve read up on a lot of it sounds like either justification or performative.

      • Shade
        Shade
        November 26, 2023 at 7:05 am | #

        I mean its not like she just started a conversation going in about all the reading she’s done on it. She misinterpreted something based on what she read and referenced it.

        Because studying is how she handles things new to her.

        • Mark
          Mark
          November 26, 2023 at 9:19 am | #

          I’m a software developer, which means my work is basically learning new stuff that isn’t my strong suit all the time, which means I spend a lot of my time being right in general but wrong in particular. I have nothing but sympathy for Dorothy today. She’s floundering because her study isn’t complete. I live that every day. Being wrong is how we learn to be right.

  18. pickonecard
    pickonecard
    November 26, 2023 at 12:14 am | #

    ew I forgot dorothy was still acting like Joyce is a toddler, the mac and cheese convo was so nice I thought that was over with

    • shrub
      shrub
      November 26, 2023 at 12:21 am | #

      When your whole world is crumbling around you, you tend to to hold onto constants and one of those is that in Dorothy’s mind Joyce’s needs Dorothy

      The reality is that Joyce is doing OK and Dorothy needs Joyce more than Joyce needs Dorothy

      • Archieve
        Archieve
        November 26, 2023 at 12:35 am | #

        Yeah a large part of why Dorothy is here is she’s gotten so used to taking care of Joyce and Joyce always wanting to spend time with her that’s she’s trying to keep that going and hasn’t emotionally accepted that Joyce has other people she wants to be around sometimes. Never occured to her that she could be the third wheel friend to Joyce.

    • Coatl
      Coatl
      November 26, 2023 at 12:29 am | #

      It’s a long road ahead for Dorothy, besides, in that talk it was clear that Dorothy was babbling with obvious fear and the fact that Joyce wants to repay everything Dorothy has done for her…let’s be honest, it worries too much.

    • Angel
      Angel
      November 26, 2023 at 2:07 am | #

      it is a bit odd considering they also held hands during ‘laundry’ time, you’d think if she was fine with it then (even if she did ask her to leave at the ‘peak’), her back being straigthened wouldn’t be a s big a deal

      • Mark
        Mark
        November 26, 2023 at 9:25 am | #

        People shake hands all the time; people take others’ hands to comfort them all the time. People do not casually touch each others’ bellies all the time; that’s a higher level of intimacy. Dorothy jumped in to help without following the protocol, that’s all.

    • Shade
      Shade
      November 26, 2023 at 7:25 am | #

      Where is she treating her like a toddler? Like this isn’t great, but is clearly not her seeing Joyce as a child.

      People are acting like she walked in and said “You hate touching now, book said so.” and not she was a little thrown off because based on past experience she assumed what she was doing to help with her posture would be okay and it seemed like it wasn’t, so she kneejerked and over corrected.

      • Archieve
        Archieve
        November 26, 2023 at 1:56 pm | #

        The toddler treatment seems to be how instead of demonstrating proper posture with herself like one might with a peer she immediately touched Joyce after injecting herself in a situation were her help wasn’t being requested. You can argue that each individual act isn’t inherently infantizing but the overall action does resemble the way a parent might handle a young child without first asking if they are fine being touched.

        • thejeff
          thejeff
          November 26, 2023 at 10:17 pm | #

          It’s a think that’s pretty common in stretching and yoga I think. It’s actually a lot easier to get postures right if someone helps adjust your posture, rather than just showing you. You can’t really see yourself to compare what you look like to what they look like.
          And if you’re used to that, you might easily not realize someone new wouldn’t get what “may I show you how” means.
          I don’t see anything “toddler” related here.

  19. Sirksome
    Sirksome
    November 26, 2023 at 12:19 am | #

    I don’t think that’s an autism thing by the way. I think that’s just an average people thing. Some people have an aversion to touch for any countless reasons. Maybe you just feel gross that day, or itchy, or tired, or whatever. Maybe getting suddenly groped from behind would make anyone slightly nervous or jumpy cause that’s a natural reaction to that happening. Just saiyan.

    • Axel
      Axel
      November 26, 2023 at 12:25 am | #

      It’s both. No one really likes being startled with touch and many people dislike it, but it is also common and more extreme as an autism symptom, and we shouldn’t reduce it to ‘everyone feels like that,’ because it can stop people from getting support they might need (or realizing that they need it in the first place).

      (this is less at you for reasoning about it here, and more at people at large dismissing symptoms as “how everyone feels,” especially when their kids try to tell them they’re having a problem)

      • DailyBrad
        DailyBrad
        November 26, 2023 at 12:52 am | #

        Yeah, it’s a sensory thing, and sensory things in general tend to crop up more with autism. I am not really that pressed about people touching me for the most part, but stuff like rain drops hitting the top of my head if I do not have a hat or hat on is something I really dislike, along with too many people talking at the same time.

      • Mark
        Mark
        November 26, 2023 at 9:27 am | #

        How about: most people feel like that, but it affects some way more than others — be kind.

    • TulipKitten
      TulipKitten
      November 26, 2023 at 1:26 am | #

      As an autistic person who is touch sensitive, I don’t personally mind touch, but it has to follow one of these conditions.

      1. It has to be asked for.
      2. It has to be someone I know and am comfortable with.
      3. It can’t be in the league of unexpected.

      1 is because I have a history of having had my space treated in inappropriate ways by people I’m not comfortable with because I’m often quiet. Like some girl just coming up to me and stroking my hair without asking, some guy groping my chest for whatever reason.

      2 for the same reason. I tend to gauge over a period of time if people are respectful of my boundaries now.

      3 is because I would like some control over touch. I don’t personally mind sexual touch as long as I know we’re on the same page. It’s just not expected in my mind most of the time. (Also, it would have to be something cleared with partner ahead of time)

      I am a huge cuddler, and will happily engage in full body cuddles with complete strangers and/or friends, I just have to know that I can say no at any time.

      • Bogeywoman
        Bogeywoman
        November 26, 2023 at 3:33 am | #

        Ditto. I am a cuddly, touchy person (when I like someone I have the tendency to stroke their hair or want to hug them/lie one them) but my desire for contact has the same conditions, especially if someone else is initiating.

      • NGPZ
        NGPZ
        November 26, 2023 at 6:18 am | #

        Yeah, I adverse to sudden touch as an autista, but I very much anticipate consensual touches from my future GF T_T

  20. Joe Moose
    Joe Moose
    November 26, 2023 at 12:19 am | #

    Fifth wheel drives seem to work best in slippery conditions. Like this one.

  21. Axel
    Axel
    November 26, 2023 at 12:20 am | #

    “I know we’ve known each other since September and we’ve shared a lot about how you think and feel, but I think you’re probably more like what I read in a book”

  22. Sirksome
    Sirksome
    November 26, 2023 at 12:26 am | #

    I’m actually very surprised so many college students have prepared “working out” outfits. They look specifically dressed for exercising instead of throwing on whatever loose shirt and bottoms they don’t mind sweating in.

    • DailyBrad
      DailyBrad
      November 26, 2023 at 1:06 am | #

      I get why Joe, Dorothy, and Jacob do, given all three work out consistently. Sarah having such an outfit is either “rule of funny” or indication she may have gotten some of this stuff before she had set aside her idea of maybe macking on Jacob, and had intended to go this route before aborting it and just held onto the clothes.

      Joyce, I forget if she had anything for when she fucked up her toe or not, but she is the type who’d have gotten some clothes for working out with her boyfriend.

    • Axel
      Axel
      November 26, 2023 at 1:07 am | #

      We know Dorothy jogs and Jacob and Joe regularly work out, so that’s not too surprising to me, but Joyce’s might be a planned outfit (or one of the ones Billie bought her), but could also be clothes she had available for pajamas, under layers, etc, put together for gym time

      • Needfuldoer
        Needfuldoer
        November 26, 2023 at 9:45 am | #

        It’s the same outfit she wore to work out that time she smooshed her toe.

    • Angel
      Angel
      November 26, 2023 at 2:09 am | #

      i’m sure some ppl just reuse old gym uniforms but other than something specific like bike shorts and sports bras all you need is something easy to move around in and not too ‘flowy’ like along sleeve or frilly skirt in a way that’d get caught on a machine or so

      maybe she got some ‘normal’ clothes when shopping with billie or more stuff off screen

    • zee
      zee
      November 26, 2023 at 1:29 pm | #

      Athlesiure fashion is pretty popular. id wear Joyce’s top or Dotty’s jacket pretty casually if I had them

  23. Ryan
    Ryan
    November 26, 2023 at 12:29 am | #

    Third wheels are superfluous, while fifth wheels are the linchpins of the transportation industry.

    • Mark
      Mark
      November 26, 2023 at 9:35 am | #

      🙂

  24. Suet
    Suet
    November 26, 2023 at 12:30 am | #

    Oh yeah, she’s still not diagnosed. The spectrum is the spectrum……?

    🛞🛞 🛞🛞 🛞👍 Ah, cronuts.

    • Taffy
      Taffy
      November 26, 2023 at 12:34 am | #

      That’s an important point and bears repeating, because people keep forgetting.

      Joyce has not been formally diagnosed yet. If you remember it happening, no you don’t.

      • DailyBrad
        DailyBrad
        November 26, 2023 at 1:10 am | #

        Yeah, like, to be frank, she probably has it. It’s not like there’s a blood test they give you, so while it’s possible she’d be turned away, much like Dina’s faced frustration with, it wouldn’t mean she doesn’t have it.

        When I first got tested, they said they did not believe I had autism because I had “a sense of humor”, and other extremely flimsy arguments, and focused in on my anxiety as being a false indicator when, no, that was just a separate issue that kind of fed into the autism issues. This was years ago, so frankly, a lot of the people giving these tests had some dubious qualifications.

      • Yumi
        Yumi
        November 26, 2023 at 4:57 pm | #

        Yeah, I’m not sure if we’re supposed to be taking it to be fact now or as a more “open wondering” (in comic) or something.

        I could get skipping a formal diagnosis testing. I’m actually getting a similar (maybe?) evaluation done this week; I’ve been on the waiting list since April. So, on a timescale level (while it could be sped up through the power of Narrative), it might just feel like it doesn’t fit. Or Willis might not to write it, for various reasons.

        Either way, this does feel like an awkward convo. Not one that we need the guillotine for, though.

        • thejeff
          thejeff
          November 26, 2023 at 10:20 pm | #

          I think Willis has said, for all practical purposes it’s fact.

          She got the suggestion less than a week ago. If your timeline is average, in comic time she’s never going to get the formal diagnosis. Without another time skip at least.

  25. Taffy
    Taffy
    November 26, 2023 at 12:33 am | #

    Rather than some “I’d never be like this” hot take about this fake person behaving in a suboptimal manner, I would like to share a small anecdote.

    This one time, I was hanging out at the school playground (I was like 10-12, somewhere in there) and this kid was getting on my nerves. Like really pissing me off, being a right prick for no apparent reason, right? Well, I flipped the fuck out and started punching him (I was a very violent kid, it was an actual problem), and he was punching me back, and at some point he stepped away or something(?) and that made me even madder, so I went over to his bike and started stomping and jumping on it, trying to bend the spokes or whatever, but I just wound up getting my foot stuck or tripping or something like that, and so within a couple minutes of the guy showing up, I was face-down in gravel, mad as hell and now bleeding a little. So he’s just laughing at me now, and he comes over and gets his bike and leaves, and all I can do at this point is accept what just happened and get back on the swings and resume whatever conversation I’d been having with the friend who’d seen all of this happen in real time.

    The moral of the story is, if you’re gonna piss off an autistic person, make sure you have a sturdy bicycle.

    • milu
      milu
      November 26, 2023 at 9:42 am | #

      Great Advice 🙏

  26. The Oracle
    The Oracle
    November 26, 2023 at 12:43 am | #

    At least the idiot’s trying.

    • NGPZ
      NGPZ
      November 26, 2023 at 12:52 am | #

      I mean they all idiots and trying in their own ways.

      The strip is called *Dumbing* of Age for a reason :p

      • Mym
        Mym
        November 26, 2023 at 1:00 am | #

        All so dumb

        • NGPZ
          NGPZ
          November 26, 2023 at 1:01 am | #

          *plays “Dum Da Dum Doi Doi” by Terry Scott Taylor* on hacked muzak*

    • Shade
      Shade
      November 26, 2023 at 7:12 am | #

      Yeah, I think some people forget studying is how Dorothy responds to things. She’s not trying to flex or be the best at autism allyship. She’s doing what she knows.

      And she messed up. Sometimes you need that practical experience.

      • HueSatLight
        HueSatLight
        November 26, 2023 at 11:10 am | #

        The drama it generates for us to read is she may know other people need practical experience, but she expects herself not to need it. She thinks she’s extraordinary, and she’s ordinary. And that’s ok, but it’s what she’s trying not to realize. She she recognizes that she has messed up, her instinct is to study more.

  27. Steve
    Steve
    November 26, 2023 at 1:00 am | #

    Oh, she’s like Brian Epstein or Billy Preston!

    • NickG
      NickG
      November 26, 2023 at 2:30 pm | #

      Or Stuart Sutcliffe, the original 5th Beatle.

  28. UrsulaDavina
    UrsulaDavina
    November 26, 2023 at 1:04 am | #

    Ya know what this autistic person hates when people treat them differently after they found out they had autism.(in terms of infantalizing me) It really hasn’t happen so much among my friend group or immediate family, but some extended family members act like Dotty, but worse.

    • UrsulaDavina
      UrsulaDavina
      November 26, 2023 at 1:46 am | #

      Going into further detail In my family, there is a distinct hierarchy, with my sisters and me positioned at the lower end. This stems from my paternal grandmother, the matriarch of our predominantly Catholic family, who disapproved of us being Jewish. Her sentiments influenced the family’s dynamics. Additionally, my father, not being the first-born male, lacked the respect he deserved within our family structure . Consequently, certain cousins, aunts, and uncles, who previously paid little attention to me, began offering support and expressing concern for my wellbeing following my diagnosis. However, I’ve been independent since a young age. I graduated from both college and graduate school, held full-time jobs, and have been living on my own since I was 19. Currently, I’m still employed full-time with a decent salary and continue to live independently. Despite these achievements, my family’s recent attempt to engage deeply in my life and wellbeing feels insincere. It doesn’t compensate for the years of ostracization faced by my sisters, my mother, and myself, especially when I am self-sufficient and don’t require their assistance.

    • Shade
      Shade
      November 26, 2023 at 7:15 am | #

      The thing is she didn’t actually treat Joyce differently, she asked if she could help her with her posture and then assumed based on past experience how she did it would be okay and was surprised when it didn’t seem to be okay and jumped to the only reference she had.

      She didn’t just assume “Oh Joyce hates touching now because she’s autistic.” there was literally a situation that threw off her understanding of Joyce’s boundaries.

      • UrsulaDavina
        UrsulaDavina
        November 26, 2023 at 2:04 pm | #

        Assuming that her autism is the reason why she didn’t like being touched is treating Joyce different then usual, and not I don’t known observe she is with her boyfriend in a gym.

  29. IniquitousKing
    IniquitousKing
    November 26, 2023 at 1:12 am | #

    Hm. The new font and my terrible eyesight do not particularly mix.

    Also, Dorothy. Stop. Just, Stop.

  30. Hazel
    Hazel
    November 26, 2023 at 1:19 am | #

    Dorothy shows off her flexibility by putting her foot in her mouth!

    Dorothy has the problem of trying really hard to be a good person but being a bit too textbook about it sometimes. And as her life gets less structured and more complicated she isn’t able to tick all the boxes she wants. So her fear of failure starts to consume her. Not a fun time for Dorothy.

    • UrsulaDavina
      UrsulaDavina
      November 26, 2023 at 1:21 am | #

      Dorothy is probably neruodivergent herself but borad systematic issues and her desire to go into has made her beleive that neurodivergency is a possible vulnerability she can’t afford to have.

      • UrsulaDavina
        UrsulaDavina
        November 26, 2023 at 1:32 am | #

        *broad
        *go into politics

        Also has anyone else’s phone just embraced their dyslexia and just automatically corrects a word to the wrong spelling beacuse you just misspelled a word so many times your phone just assumes that’s how it’s spelled?

  31. Bash
    Bash
    November 26, 2023 at 1:37 am | #

    It’s actually a big step that Joe sees a third wheel and not the potential for a threesome.

    • Mym
      Mym
      November 26, 2023 at 1:40 am | #

      You know what: Good Point.

    • Amós Batista
      Amós Batista
      November 26, 2023 at 2:10 am | #

      Why? I thought Joe has felt like threatened. Like, suddenly Dorothy touching his girlfriend…

      • Mym
        Mym
        November 26, 2023 at 2:25 am | #

        I saw it as Joe noticing how Joyce was uncomfortable by Dorothy being kind of a dick. I don’t like Joe, but I don’t think it’s a threatened response

      • Shade
        Shade
        November 26, 2023 at 7:18 am | #

        Not its just Dotty is being a bit of a mess right now.

    • J.Gawain
      J.Gawain
      November 26, 2023 at 9:40 am | #

      I don’t know how Joe feels about being a good bro to Danny, but I know I wouldn’t touch my friends’ exes with a ten-foot pole.

      • thejeff
        thejeff
        November 26, 2023 at 10:57 am | #

        Joe showed his respect by not putting her on the “Do” list until after they broke up.

        • NickG
          NickG
          November 26, 2023 at 2:32 pm | #

          And when he found out that Dorothy had kissed Walky said that if she was that hard up he would have done her. Joe’s come a long way in a short time.

  32. Mym
    Mym
    November 26, 2023 at 1:39 am | #

    So when’s Dorothy getting /her/ diagnosis? And when she does, is she going to assume all of the stereotypes apply to herself too?

    • Angel
      Angel
      November 26, 2023 at 2:11 am | #

      she doesn’t awnat anything ‘officially listed’ even tho she might also have some kinda anxiety disorder bc it’d affect her ‘political career’ (which yeah politicians suck buti ‘d rather trust a politician who’s willing to admit they need therapy and go to one versus someone who celarly has issues and refuses to get any kinda help)

      • Bryy
        Bryy
        November 26, 2023 at 2:32 am | #

        Dorothy needs to get that looked at.

  33. Thomas
    Thomas
    November 26, 2023 at 2:05 am | #

    Joyce is not *startled*, she’s *aroused*. Joe doesn’t realize he’s the *actual* third wheel in this situation.

    • Angel
      Angel
      November 26, 2023 at 2:11 am | #

      tbf joyce was more so staring at joe’s butt when dorothy came in and not checking dorothy out lol

    • milu
      milu
      November 26, 2023 at 9:43 am | #

      based

    • Schpoonman
      Schpoonman
      November 26, 2023 at 10:04 am | #

      Hilariously wrong.

      • HueSatLight
        HueSatLight
        November 26, 2023 at 10:41 am | #

        this is what it looks like when someone touches Joyce and she’s aroused by it. https://www.dumbingofage.com/followyourlead/
        today is what it looks like when someone touches Joyce and she’s thinking “what?”

    • Mym
      Mym
      November 26, 2023 at 12:08 pm | #

      I’m a huge DorothyxJoyce shipper, but I didn’t read arousal between them at all today.

  34. Amós Batista
    Amós Batista
    November 26, 2023 at 2:15 am | #

    Suddenly, Joyce is able to reach the floor…

  35. mneme
    mneme
    November 26, 2023 at 2:57 am | #

    What’s surprising given that Joe knows about the laundry is that he’s not immediately jumping to “threesome”. I mean, it’s a terrible idea, but it’s Joe’s kind of terrible idea.

    Old Joe.

    Possibly.

    • Shade
      Shade
      November 26, 2023 at 7:19 am | #

      And even if the brain impulse is still there since these things can take time to unlearn completely, he understand its completely inappropriate. Which is still progress.

  36. Yak
    Yak
    November 26, 2023 at 3:10 am | #

    I think Willis is just flexing their drawing skills at this point.

    Also, I think most people don’t like it when someone with whom they have an awkward sexual history surprises them by touching their body while they’re in a vulnerable position. I don’t think that’s an autistic thing at all.

  37. thakoru
    thakoru
    November 26, 2023 at 3:31 am | #

    As an autistic person with an aversion to being touched, boy am I glad I didn’t do Thanksgiving with extended family this year. Forget political arguments, where are the articles with tips on how to survive the Hug Gauntlet?

    • Bogeywoman
      Bogeywoman
      November 26, 2023 at 3:47 am | #

      All you need is the t Ds of Dodgeball.
      Dodge, duck, dip, dive and dodge.
      🫡

      • elebenty
        elebenty
        November 26, 2023 at 10:52 am | #

        Just don’t be Daffy
        https://youtu.be/8cuihrjLNAo?si=-IvH1XBhnWPKdOVj

    • khn0
      khn0
      November 26, 2023 at 8:02 am | #

      You can move to a country where they don’t do thanksgiving, or hugs. I do neither and american people I know going all huggy is always weird – even weirder are non-american people who take social clues from american fictions and now hug random people. So even in another country you won’t be perfectly safe I guess.

      • Mark
        Mark
        November 26, 2023 at 9:43 am | #

        Huh, I always thought we (in US) were rather reserved, and in other places they hug more. Live and learn….

        • thejeff
          thejeff
          November 26, 2023 at 10:58 am | #

          Not all other places are the same.

          Hell, there are regional differences even within the US.

    • Dierna
      Dierna
      November 26, 2023 at 3:22 pm | #

      I come from a rather large family that love hugging. Thankfully they all obey my wishes and understand I don’t like being hugged so with me I get fist bumps.

    • Yumi
      Yumi
      November 26, 2023 at 4:47 pm | #

      They are once again focused on kids– and I like the increased attention that is going toward kids being able to set their own boundaries, but I wish there was more, “Hey, you know how you didn’t learn about setting and accepting boundaries 30 years ago? It’s time to catch up.”

      (One of my aunts is like this, she gets so offended if I don’t want to hug her. One year, she insisted in leading a blessing before dinner and made everyone stand and hold hands, and when people seemed annoyed before and had a lukewarm reception afterward, she was like, “Oh, it’s such a difficulty, what a hardship to have to hold hands for a minute.” She thinks she’s a very self-aware and empathetic person.)

  38. A
    A
    November 26, 2023 at 6:23 am | #

    Serious question for David Willis, if you read this: the ink lines in this strip look fantastic. Did you do something differently with your technique to make them so smooth?

    • David M Willis
      David M Willis
      November 26, 2023 at 9:45 am | #

      I’m away for Thanksgiving weekend, saw a typo, didn’t have Photoshop with me, downloaded GIMP, fixed the typo by copy-pasting it away, resized and saved. GIMP must downscale differently, as it’s also why the typeface looks thinner.

      • A
        A
        November 26, 2023 at 11:42 pm | #

        That’s funny, I wouldn’t have expected it to have such a noticeable effect on the appearance of the lines. Thanks! I hope you had a good weekend.

  39. Daibhid C
    Daibhid C
    November 26, 2023 at 8:04 am | #

    Speaking as one autistic person, if you touch me unexpectedly and I tense up, it’s fine to apologise for it! I won’t think your ablelist for assuming that just because I tensed up when you touched me I don’t like being touched. Other autistic people may prefer that you make no concessions to their autism at all, so you should probably ask them, except you can’t, because that itself would be treating them differently because they’re autistic, so good luck with that!

    • Daibhid C
      Daibhid C
      November 26, 2023 at 8:05 am | #

      “…won’t think you’re ableist…”

      I forget to grammar when I’m irritated.

    • thejeff
      thejeff
      November 26, 2023 at 11:00 am | #

      But maybe don’t make a big thing about how autistic people don’t like to be touched, just apologize for touching and move on.

      And do the same if a non-autistic person tenses up when touched unexpectedly.

      • eskimolos
        eskimolos
        November 26, 2023 at 5:19 pm | #

        Oh wait, so overexplaining your motivation out of an anxious need to make fully clear your intentions is no longer a common autistic trait in this scenario, for the purposes that this time it made us realise another person was trying to understand issues with us that might arise as associated with the label we keep intentionally demanding to singularly encompass a broad spectrum of lived experiences… before they came up?

        • Taffy
          Taffy
          November 26, 2023 at 8:22 pm | #

          What?

  40. Needfuldoer
    Needfuldoer
    November 26, 2023 at 9:11 am | #

    “Autistic people blah blah blah, and you’re autistic, so therefore you blah blah blah”

    Fuck all the way off with that shit, Dorothy. You know Joyce better than that.

    (Sorry, I just heard way too much of that over the years.)

    • Adept
      Adept
      November 26, 2023 at 9:30 am | #

      Yeah it was a bit much.

  41. Derek
    Derek
    November 26, 2023 at 10:01 am | #

    “autistic people have an aversion to being touched” as opposed to neurotypicals who love being grabbed without warning at all times?? listen to words that come out of your mouth, Dorothy

    • zee
      zee
      November 26, 2023 at 1:35 pm | #

      Neurotypicals are strange creatures from what I’ve observed

  42. Chester
    Chester
    November 26, 2023 at 11:10 am | #

    The fifth wheel, also known as the steering wheel.

  43. Amós Batista
    Amós Batista
    November 26, 2023 at 11:34 am | #

    Joyce’s butt is hot, but Joe’s one is way more toned.

  44. poyo
    poyo
    November 26, 2023 at 11:54 am | #

    i cant wait for dorothy to have her autistic realization

  45. Kazuma Taichi
    Kazuma Taichi
    November 26, 2023 at 12:26 pm | #

    I love touch
    can’t get enough of it

    but I generally like to know to expect it
    and it’s nicer from someone I know

  46. Grant
    Grant
    November 26, 2023 at 1:43 pm | #

    Clearly Dorothy is a fifth COLUMN. Big Lesbian has convinced her, in the spirit of equal representation, to interrupt these entirely m/f proceedings and represent the will of the homoerotic people.

    • Tesset
      Tesset
      November 26, 2023 at 2:03 pm | #

      Hi, can you direct me to where I can find said Big Lesbian? No particular reason, just would like to introduce myself 👉👈

      • Tesset
        Tesset
        November 26, 2023 at 2:03 pm | #

        Oh real bad gravatar roll for that comment lmao

      • Mel
        Mel
        November 26, 2023 at 6:14 pm | #

        I’m a FAT lesbian if that helps any

  47. Icalasari
    Icalasari
    November 26, 2023 at 2:26 pm | #

    Thank you Joe

  48. Taffy
    Taffy
    November 26, 2023 at 2:35 pm | #

    Funny enough, I think Dorothy assuming there’s A Touch Thing™ in play is kinda similar to the commenters assuming the same thing. Joyce only seems confused it even came up, not bothered at all. She hasn’t signaled in any way that touching her was unwelcome, just that she didn’t know what Dorothy meant right away. Dorothy’s the one who brought it up for seemingly no reason and without provocation.

    • Needfuldoer
      Needfuldoer
      November 26, 2023 at 5:13 pm | #

      Because that is An Autism Thing and Joyce may be Autistic so therefore it must be a Joyce thing despite all past experience and knowledge, of course.

  49. Dierna
    Dierna
    November 26, 2023 at 3:15 pm | #

    Yo Dorothy. Not everyone on the spectrum is the same!! I don’t like being touched but some (like Joyce) don’t mind it!

  50. Wendy
    Wendy
    November 26, 2023 at 9:21 pm | #

    Dorothy is a cringe-inducing dork sometimes, but I’m surprised at the amount of people here seeming to imply she’s some kind of hellish monster. She knows she fucked up and she’s trying to do better, even if very awkwardly for now. She’ll get there.

    • Wendy
      Wendy
      November 26, 2023 at 9:21 pm | #

      AND OF COURSE I GET THE DOROTHY PFP AUGH I don’t even like her sob

    • NGPZ
      NGPZ
      November 26, 2023 at 10:42 pm | #

      She’s probably not gonna get that much better in regards to her internalized ableism until she’s forced to confront it somehow and makes a giant melancholic mess as a result.

      Ideally that wouldn’t be the case, but this isn’t *smarting* of age

      • Wendy
        Wendy
        November 27, 2023 at 12:56 pm | #

        I don’t know that her ableism is “internalized” per se because I’m not so sure she actually is disabled. She probably has anxiety, sure, but she doesn’t really strike me as being on the spectrum. Not saying she’s not, but I don’t think it’s certain enough to confidently assume she is.

        That said, I’d kind of appreciate it if you didn’t engage with my posts anymore. I have you blocked on Twitter for a reason.

  51. David DeLaney
    David DeLaney
    November 27, 2023 at 6:15 pm | #

    the wheels on the ship go round and round, round and round…

    –Dave, but are they making any progress

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