I’ve got a guest comic over at Chris Hallbeck’s Maximumble! It took me fooooooooorever to draw. Go check it out.
“Nooo, my brain was dirty?!”
Hey, magic morphing Joe shirt message
Nice catch. Surprised no one else noticed…
Off-panel was a quick Joe-ing, and Joe put his shirt on backwards.
(Yes that means the back of the shirt said ‘Eyes down here’ and pointed at his butt).
She was getting better and now she relapsed. Way to go Walkerton.
“Way to Go Walkerton” needs to be a T-shirt.
It was meant as condemnation.
Doesn’t mean it can’t be on a t-shirt. You just have to make sure you get Dorothy slapping Walky on it too.
I can seconded that.
We should petition the cartoonist to make Dorothy slapping Walky with the caption “Way to go Walky”.
Dorothy angrily berating an awkward-looking Walky. “Way to go, Walkerton!”
I’d buy it. If it has a cool design. And I have money.
It needs elipses at the end to communicate the exaspearation
“Way to go Walkerton…”
It needs a comma after go is what it needs….
It needs a comma after go, is what it needs
“I get in less trouble that way,” he says.
On the other hand, I’m not QUITE sure what she’s weeping about. She should be used to people calling her brainwashed, crazy, whatever by now. If she stays Christian she’s gonna have that the rest of her life. At least in her country people just use words, and it’s not like, “oh, you can’t have a job from me,” or “oh crap, I might have to shoot you now or splash acid on your face.” If I were with her, I think I might hug her, but I might also tell her to check out persecution dot com and, well, see that from Walky’s POV she IS brainwashed. Nothing she can do about it but smile back at him, and let it go. This comes with the territory, and it’s an accident anyway!
Until coming to college she lived in a little bubble of a town where everybody she met believed exactly the same thing she did – or close enough that she didn’t know the difference. So the deranged and brainwashed nature of her beliefs has probably not been pointed out to her until now.
And yes, I know this flies in the face of the fact she claims to have had access to the internet. Perhaps her parents have amazing filters that turn it into the internet of Willis’s youth?
You can have access to the internet and still be brainwashed. With the internet, you’re still removed enough that it doesn’t necessarily penetrate the brainwashing-shield. It’s meeting those people in real life and being friends with them that makes you realize that the world is a lot bigger than you previously thought.
At least this was my experience.
How would *you* react if you came to the realization that the people you trust the most might have always been betraying you in a horrible way?
Joyce’s choices are that either she and all her new friends are horrible people, or her old friends and parents are horrible people.
Horribly deluded, I’d say. Either the people in her old life are wrong or the people in her new life are. Being wrong about how the world is put together is hardly a crime. I think she’s troubled by seeing how hard it is for people to agree on such fundamental facts as the way the world is put together.
Lol, I left some redundancies in that post, I just noticed. Blame it on struggling not to be insensitive to creationists.
It’s possible to spend time on the Internet and only see what you want to see. Yeah, you know there’s weird stuff out there, but that’s THEM, those weirdos, not someone normal like me or Dorothy or Walky…
She’s come to consider these people to be her friends. No matter how used to hearing something mean you get, it’s far worse when you hear it from your friends.
Oh, Shit. I really hope Joyce isn’t about to go do something stupid.
Hey, now, how would doing Billie be stupid?
Doing Billie is neither stupid nor intelligent, it is merely a fact of life. On the other hand, Billie herself is kind of stupid.
Why does Billie get so much flack (for being a bit wide set, an alcoholic, etcl.)? I like her.
Hey! Billie isn’t a *Thing*.
Yeah, she was a cheerleader
Sure she is! The thing she is is a person.
‘Thing’ is a pretty broad category.
So is ‘person.’
Billie’s a pretty broad… category, too.
I see what you did there.
She’s more Invisible Woman. Mainly because she’s female.
If I recall the Willis artwork properly, she’s Iron Woman.
Y’know, because she’s an alcoholic.
“You can only take so much…before you snap.”
I love the little visual trick that you played with the distance in this. Good show.
Yeah, it’s a great instance of “Behind the Black”!
Behind the black?
“Behind the Black“.
I assume this is what you meant to link to?
Doesn’t apply, since they were not in Walky’s line of sight, but, rather, behind his back.
I think you mean behind his back
The mouse-over text for the comic implies the former, but there’s no reason it can’t be both.
I find it hard to believe Walky had his back turned to them before Joe arrived.
You know what that rhymes with.
Dorothy gave Walky the clap!
Ah Walky, always knows what to say!
My god, Walky! That is, like, the most insensitive thing anyone has ever said. Good job! There should be a prize or something.
I argue that Mike has topped that (and your mom) many times. But not as unintentionally.
I think the prize is your mom. And a nickel.
I think it’s the unintentionality (is that a word? Firefox says it isn’t, but it should be) that makes it so insensitive. Because when Mike’s a jerk, he actually quite “sensitive” about it, in the sense that he is carefully considering the impact of his words.
If you trip and knock over a vase, that’s clumsy, but if you knock over a vase with a slingshot from fifty yards away now that’s just marksmanship.
I think Mike would use the slingshot to make someone else knock over the vase.
And his fist. For maximum pain.
Sorry, Walky–right theory, wrong universe, wrong girl.
Brainwashed, or as some people say, the Cerebral Spit-shine.
Yes, what Walky said was insensitive and lacked empathy, but the truth hurts.
Oh darn. Drama.
You mean “Reality”?
Pretty much, yes.
I love how in the previous comic, Walky’s arm is just in frame to make this work.
A well-deserved whap. Dorothy was reaching Joyce, and blam! Walky strikes!
She reached Joyce and then reached Walky.
I don’t think so. I think this is what Joyce actually needed. Being too gentle was going to make Joyce calm down and remember what the youth pastors told her about people seeming nice but having something ulterior motive (Joe’s presence probably wasn’t going to help that) but if someone actually points out the obvious and she realizes that it JUST DOESN’T COMPUTE, she’ll have an opportunity for catharsis. Eventually.
Eh, I don’t agree. Joyce herself said she was having trouble with her worldview because almost everyone was so wonderful instead of the terrible people she’d be taught to disregard. And then, hey! Here goes Walky being terrible, just like she’d been warned about.
She could also retreat, sheltering herself away and denying that anyone else has anything of value to say. I doubt that’s what will happen, given the autobiographical nature of Joyce and where Willis is now, but it COULD happen.
You act like her deciding that she actually is brainwashed would be a good outcome. Her family and church have not been out to exploit her, and convincing her that they have been is not a healthy outcome, even if your goal is to get her to lose her religion.
She’s been raised with a narrow mindset, but that is NOT the same thing as brainwashing. It’s perfectly possible to be both Christian and open-minded: you just have to be willing to recognize that there are things we don’t, and maybe can’t, understand about life.
She has been brainwashed. You don’t have to be exploited to be brainwashed.
Of course, she may have been exploited as well. Do you suppose she’s ever paid tithing to anyone?
What Joyce needs is a semester off, working at a Bloomington strip club. Or at a truck stop.
Of course, we’d have to see it with panels labelled “meanwhile…”
Well said! A Christian faith in God and open-mindedness are not juxtapositions.
Pan out even further in the next panel to reveal Mike giving a slow clap.
I just imagine him wringing his hands.
That’s how he claps.
Nah, he spontaneously grows a mustache to twirl.
I wonder what Mike with a mustache would look like. Would it break the same laws of physics as his hair?
He wouldn’t have a Snively Whiplash, he would have a Hulk Hogan. It would just match his look better I think.
I give you… mike with a mustache
(also, this my first attempt at using tags in the comments, I hope this works…)
Pan out even FURTHER and we can see Sal and Jason having sex in the empty classroom. Pan out even FURTHER and we can see Billie still trying to talk to Ruth in the communal shower. Pan out even FURTHER and you can see Amazi-Girl cleaning up the seedier parts of the campus. Pan out even FURTHER and you can see Dina digging at an excavation site. Pan out even FURTHER and you can see… US.
and pan out even further and you can see Willis drawing everything… including us.
And pan out EVEN FURTHER and you can see someone who might or might not have a ginormous beard, depending on the moment you look, reading one of his completed strips and muttering, “Damn you, Willis!” And maybe hear thunder muttering.
And then, suddenly, the universe makes sense to you. Or the reason why it doesn’t does, anyway.
And pan out even further and you can see a monkey eating a bug on a tree branch. Wait, what’s with that?
Can we get back to ME now, Cian?!
Pan out even FURTHER and you see a Lion waiting by a bus stop.
No no, Mike will fix it, by somehow making everybody feel worse.
It is within his power.
Way to not get in trouble. You’re doing it wrong.
He *did* say that it was “less trouble”, not none at all.
If he had been listening, he would’ve said it to Joyce on purpose.
Welcome to Dumbing of Age, where the Drama Tag has been pulled since the dawn of time. Unless, this is life without the Drama Tag being pulled, in which case…
Or a world where there was no drama tag at all.
I don’t think that’s an option.
Walky, Walky, Walky. Being right is never an excuse to be a jerk.
Always. You misspelled “always” as “never.”
It works for Mike.
Good thing they aren’t dating in this universe
But the question remains, will the consequences be the same, better, or worse? Because there were nasty consequences to their big fight the first time. But this is a different universe so maybe things will go better.
Meanwhile, in the Walkyverse:
Walky: OW! Hey, what was that for?
Joyce: …I really don’t know. I just got an extreme sense that you needed a kick to the nuts.
Wow, Walky stop doing your impression of Abed Nadir
Cruel. Cruel cruel cruel.
I feel so bad for saying this, but man, Joyce in that last panel looks like she just came out one of those old romance comics. I just find it kind of funny.
Now Walky, turn the other cheek!
Honestly, I don’t see how Walky’s comment is any more insensitive than all the crap Joyce has said about him throughout this comic. Not saying Joyce deserved it, but I think they could both stand to be nicer to each other.
…That is actually a good point. I’d like to say “But Joyce is more sensitive, so Walky should know better” but, really? The sweat jeans guy should know about social norms?
I wouldn’t say Joyce is more sensitive in this instance, just already in an unstable state.
Thats also a poor argument on the grounds that it’s horse crap. You don’t get to be as nasty as joyce has been to walky and then pull the “but wait I’m sensitive” card.
I agree. It’s sort of the Glee effect – insults are used for comedic purposes until they’re turned back. Once someone starts crying, all the cards are down.
ah the blunt social instrument school of making friends. wtf is tact?
Crazy yes, brainwashed i don’t think so.
Homosexuality is a choice and the earth is less than ten thousand years old.
No external influence here, folks.
But she does seem to posess at least some critical thinking ability.
Any human can put two and two together once removed from their echo chamber.
Exactly! She needs time to adjust before you start deprograming.
The best way to confront delusion is with cold, harsh, reality.
But before that you need data. You cannot make bricks without clay.
That’s actually untrue. When people are presented
with facts against their core beliefs they will most
usually double down on those beliefs. This is often
referred to as the backfire effect.
So, I’ve read the backfire effect is based on one experiment. Might want to wait before enthroning it.
When that happens use a Fabian strategy.
See the preconceived notions/science filter diagram. Whatever she has, it is not critical thinking skill.
Some people would add stuff like Halloween being a Satanic holiday and that evolution is a hoax. Lovely stuff oneis taught when being raised in an ultra conservative environment. I still have issues socalizing properly and I’m almost thirty. I thankfully was allowed to go to public school and had enough exposure to avoid a similar world crash as Joyce has.
See, I’d say brainwashed yes, crazy no.
Bust out some pornography and then say that.
That was original Joyce, this Joyce has seen the internet.
‘crazy’ used here as ‘brainwashed to a crazy (‘extreme’) extent’, not ‘crazy and also brainwashed’.
Hn. I’m uncomfortable with Walky making Joyce cry but I’m also uncomfortable with Dorothy hitting him over it.
This comic is supremely uncomfortable.
But its a girl hitting a boy, so its not abuse, because women are weak and men don’t feel feelings.
Agreed, two wrongs don’t make a right and all that
Just pretend Walky is Sousuke Sagura and Dorothy is Kaname Chidori, and she’s hitting him with a white fan. COMEDY GOLD.
I’m a man who firmly believes that if *anyone* initiates any sort of hitting or other forms of violence then they had best be prepared to receive violence. Otherwise that’s saying that the other person is allowed to lose their temper to the point to where they lash out but the person on the receiving end isn’t. I don’t care if it’s a man or woman.
I firmly believe that Dorothy shouldn’t have whapped Walky.
SHE SHOULD’VE PUNCHED HIM RIGHT THROUGH HIS FACE.
Or strangled him. That works too. What in the HELL, Walky?!
Oh Walky, truly you are the most sensitive of men.
It makes that slap hurt that much more.
As sensitive as a two by four.
As sensitive as a thrown brick.
Believe you me, being hit by a thrown brick will leave tou feeling very sensitive… to pain.
Which makes it a perfect comparison!
Hey, c’mon. It’s not like Walky was talking to her; Dorothy just picked a REALLY bad time for a dramatic, emotional pause.
He’s lucky he only got slapped.
*laughs my ass off*
I know it’s mean and it shouldn’t be funny, and it isn’t when I consider Joyce’s actual mental and emotional health, but she’s kind of had that coming. Plus it’s extra funny that Walky thought he was safe saying tat two feet away from her.
It’s OK to laugh; they’re cartoon characters.
It’s Dorothy’s expression in panel 3 that keeps cracking me up.
You know, I’d’ve figured Sal would actually agree on the whole ‘emotional feel-feel crap’.
I also like how Joe spontaneously has a unibrow in panel 3.
Yep, Walky’s gone full Aspie. I’ve been diagnosed, and I don’t even go full Aspie.
You never go full aspie. Don’t believe me? Ask Howard Dean, 2004. Went full aspie, went home empty handed.
I’m pretty sure that it’s been admitted that the level of the crowd was deliberately turned down to make him look crazy.
It’s old, but here’s that proof
It was a joke. I know Dean was shouting because the audience was loud, but since the mic was unidirectional, Dean came out as if he were just shouting emotionally for no apparent reason. Also he was just getting over a cold, so his voice sort of broke halfway through the shout.
But the Chappelle “Byaah!” bit would have been a lot less funny if the whole explanation or accuracy to detail would have been included now wouldn’t it?
I’m gonna have to disagree with you here and defend my man Howard Dean. He didn’t go aspie, he went “real.” He was crucified by the media for showing real emotion on the campaign trail. It was beautiful and I love it. I still believe it was one of the greatest moments in American politics. /soapbox
what the hell, Walky?
A slap on the face is way less trouble than trying to deprogram Joyce.
Way to get Bob and George’d, Walky.
Ah man, I remember Bob and George… Not the best, but I loved it when I read it.
Definitely one of the best sprite comics I’ve seen. Granted, you’ve got to be in the mood for pure silliness, but it wass great nonetheless!
I changed “it’s” to “it was”, but somehow managed to type an extra ‘s’.
Favorite strip that comes to mind, when Megaman says “Son of a B****!” followed by Rush saying “Me!”. I’m smiling just thinking about it.
It took me a moment to figure out what you meant, but yeah, he totally got Wily’d here, didn’t he?
I like that in panel 4 Walky only looks puzzled by the turn of events.
Even DANNY has never reached that level of tactlessness.
Someone needs to make Danny look good.
This is clearly not Joyces’ day.
Seeing as how Walky has exhibited the social consciousness of a turnip in all of the panels depicting his short life, the question remain in my mind…what did anyone expect of him. Dorothy may have improved the exterior, but the interior talks a lot longer.
I dated a guy like him for a short while, long ago. It was as though whatever he said was fine, and he was totally surprised when people were offended, surprised, or hurt by it. And I do believe he really was, he simply had no empathy whatsoever. There were no fancy terms in general society usage for his behavior back then. But now I would guess he suffered some degree of adult of asper’s, because he was unlike anyone else I had met. I don’t think he meant to be cruel, he just was.
And I do not believe in sugar coating reality. There are just times when you don’t rub salt in an open wound.
“But now I would guess he suffered some degree of adult of asper’s”
Nope. Nope. I am an actual diagnosed Aspie, who knows many others who really are diagnosed with Asperger’s Syndrome, and that is not how it works. Dina is much closer, although I think she’s somewhere else on the autistic spectrum. Walky’s problems are with his attitudes towards growing up and gender. He’s either choose to be socially and emotionally oblivious or was raised that way, but nothing I’ve seen of him suggests that his brain is wired differently, as is the case with AS.
I really, really dislike it when people claim to have Asperger’s as an excuse to be rude.
Beautiful comic, and it addresses one of the things that bugs me about too many members of the Aspie community.
Other problems: confusing Asperger’s with a back door compliment — as if this disorder MAKES you deeply intelligent! — and, not unrelatedly, the segment that attempt to stop research into treatment options for other parts of the Autism spectrum. You know who I mean, the self-diagnosed assholes who go around insisting Asperger’s is a higher form of consciousness, or a lifestyle choice!, and that it’s EXACTLY like other, far more debilitating forms of Autism, and that trying to cure it in any form is morally wrong.
Idk about you but I don’t think the girl in my eighth grade class who needed a constant in-class nurse in order to not only do schoolwork but eat her lunch, probably would have appreciated research to help her live independently.
I like how Joyce still has the band aid from her vaccination.
She isn’t crying and running away because he hurt her feelings.
After her comment “…Everyone spent 18 years teaching me to fear.”
And his Comment “She’s crazy brainwashed.”
She’s running away crying because she realizes Walky is right.
She’s sad that he’s right, she is brain washed and she now realizes she has to face that truth and that scares her.
One thing I wondered: How far away were Joyce and Dorothy standing? Joe seemed OK with talking about them in the third person. Though what Joe said wasn’t bad, still it’s not really something you’d say of you knew the subject could overhear you, and Joe doesn’t usually have a social skills deficit. Did Joyce and Dorothy happen to move closer just as Walky was saying that? That said, Walky certainly doesn’t seem to realize he said something hurtful.
In the previous strip, Walky is standing as close to Dorothy as he is in panel three. I think it’s safe to assume that they really are right there and he just ignored it.
Joe’s social skills are… narrowly focused. He’s confident and charismatic and entirely capable of bluntly dismissing people he’s not trying to joe. And I’m pretty sure Joyce has been filed in the “don’t stick it in the crazy” bin, and Dorothy… well, Dorothy already knows him, and shouldn’t be expecting any less.
I thought it was sort of the opposite — Joe sensed unease and a sensitive situation, or just saw that Dorothy and Joyce were already in conversation, and went for Walky instead.
and the lesson is: When you talk about someone behind their back, make sure you are outside of earshot of said person.
Note he didn’t say she was crazy and brainwashed, she said she was crazy brainwashed which means there’s still hope. Either way he deserved that smack from Dorothy.
Sure he deserved it, Joyce also needed to hear it. All in all, I really like this scene, everyone appears to be in the right to me.
Goddamn it, Walky.
I really don’t like Joyce, she is close minded and inarticulate about her beliefs. I don’t really care about her being nice, or the product of her environment. She is the sort of person I would make an effort to avoid, just like the overly Hippie or Objectivist or Druggie jerk offs I have met and not taken a liking to.
Well then I find it hard to understand why you are reading this webcomic. It’s obvious she is having a moral crisis over her beliefs, which means she recognizes that there is something extreme about what she has been taught. She may be a bit forceful in her beliefs but she is not trying to hawk them down anyone’s throats, and is trying her damnest to like everyone and be nice to them despite their divergent beliefs or practices. However, I believe calling her a j*** *** however is entirely crossing a line of civility.
I don’t think anyone disagrees that her form of evangelism and wilful ignorance of widely accepted scientific facts is unpleasant. Given that she’s representing what Willis was like at that time of his life though, I think there’s proof that people like that can change, and some of us prefer to try and give those people a change, or see the opportunity for them to change – and Joyce does occasionally seem close to changing.
Is it still willful ignorance if you’ve never been taught otherwise? I mean, isn’t that what brainwashing is?
This whole “I DON’T TALK TO PEOPLE WITH VIEWPOINTS I DON’T AGREE WITH” is the very same attitude that most Evangelicals adhere to. Making an effort to get to know people and tossing aside our pre-conceived notions is how we grow and overcome prejudice. At least someone that grew up as sheltered as Joyce is trying to break free of her narrow worldview.
>This whole “I DON’T TALK TO PEOPLE WITH VIEWPOINTS I DON’T AGREE WITH” is the very same attitude that most Evangelicals adhere to.
Do… do you know what the word ‘evangelize’ means?
Yes, it means to speak to others about God and salvation. You well know that I meant that they don’t bother to associate with non-Evangelicals except to proselytize. Don’t try to undermine my point by being obtuse.
Joyce is not closed-minded. You seem far more closed-minded than she is, in fact. You seem to be ripping into her solely on the basis that she’s religious, and somehow make the connection that religious = closed-minded. She openly doesn’t have a problem with people who don’t share her beliefs, and she’s been nothing but tolerant and accepting of other beliefs.
You have a sentence in your post that literally expresses “I don’t care about her being nice (or her personality at all), I just hate her because she’s religious”. You have no room to talk about closed-mindedness.
She spent 18 years having those beliefs drilled into her–don’t forget she was homeschooled, so she didn’t hear anything to challenge that worldview. She’s only been in college about 3 weeks, and already she’s at least listening to other viewpoints.
Yes, the whole point of Joyce’s character is to show you the inner life and backstory of one of those people you would dismiss and avoid in real life, so that you can understand where their attitude comes from and sympathize with them as human beings.
I suppose you can refuse to participate in that exercise if you’d like, but hen I’m not sure why you’re bothering to read things.
Joyce would be having a much easier time of things here if she were really closed-minded. Her problem is that, for the last eighteen years, people have been shoveling her head full of crap. Now she’s out in the real world and meeting people who are different than the ones she grew up with, encountering ideas that are different than the ones that got shoveled into her head, many of them people and ideas that she’s been explicitly told are evil and wrong, and she’s having an emotional crisis because the new things she’s discovering don’t fit into her head along with the crap that it’s already packed with, and she’s too intellectually honest to just throw away the new discoveries, and too attached to her preconceived notions to throw them away to make room for the new stuff.
If she were really closed-minded, she’d just be throwing away the new discoveries, she’d have dumped Dorothy as soon as she discovered that she was an atheist – or at least be trying to convert her – and she’d be continuing on in serene confidence that her preconceived notions were correct in the face of all evidence to the contrary. (See also: Mary.)
But she’s not; she’s freaking out because she increasingly suspects that the new discoveries are right, and the preconceived notions that have been the basis of her entire life are what’s wrong. And that implies also that her family and previous friends and authority figures, all the people she’s loved and trusted and looked to for guidance all her life, are also wrong.
I completely agree with this.
Joyce isn’t closed minded; she’s simply very naive and has been fed a set of beliefs and ideas over the first 18 years of her life that she is now finding don’t mesh with what she’s finding in the real world (if you can call college the real world). She’s confused and upset that everything that she’s held as fact her entire life is being turned on its head, but she’s willing to weigh the facts as she receives them and doesn’t just reject them.
Honestly, Walky is easily just as bad as her. Joyce doesn’t reject reality, she’s never really been given a chance to learn anything outside of what her community/church/family told her and now she’s doing her best to be open-minded. Walky however is closed-minded. Unless someone hits him over the head (thank you Dorothy) he doesn’t realize that he’s done anything wrong or that his own beliefs/behaviors are completely ridiculous and dickish.
What he said about Joyce here isn’t completely wrong though. How he said it and when he said it though were completely out of line and inconsiderate. Hopefully this will lead to Joyce developing further as a character and possibly this will also lead to Walky to being less of a dick if Dorothy (and possibly Joe?) put him straight.
Walky rolls for Situational Awareness.
Oh, critical fumble!
In his defense, he’s working with a permanent -15 penalty.
FINALLY someone said it.
And now the story gets really interesting…
Although from the looks of it, Walky won’t be getting any sexytime for awhile…
Dotty just can’t resist the caramel.
I’m beginning to think that Walky and Dotty are meant for each other. Or at least, he’s meant to derail Dotty from her plans for a New World Order.
Ow…the plaster, this is still the day of the flu shot…
damn I am forgetfull
Dorothy’s eyetwitch is my favorite expression from her so far in this comic.
every face palm meme should just be posted on this strip in particular…..:facepalm:
Dude, it’s harsh as hell but I think it’s true. Without knowledge of the future, I think she needed to hear it.
Granted, a less direct way would have been more kind.
Eh, If she’d been a guy and this situation happened and he stormed home in tears, everybody would roll their eyes (except Mike, who’d punch Walky anyway.)
You know what… I think this is actually my fav Joyce development scene. I really think she needed that.
“I’m sorry, Joyce. That was a horrible thing for him to say.”
“Yes, it was! I mean, /you/ don’t think I’m brainwashed, do you?”
“Oh I do, but I wouldn’t say it to your face.”
I can almost see that happening.
Aww, I feel sad now
…you don’t look sad.
There we go.
Yes, Walky, Joyce is the only character in these panels who holds herself to a standard that others find ridiculous and which at times negatively impacts her emotional wellbeing and connection to others. Yes, Walky, Joyce is the only person who is deliberately limiting herself out of her beliefs of who she supposed to be. No, Walky, I’m not being sarcastic at all, why do you ask?
WALKY, shes right THERE! I didn’t think he could be that stupid I was wrong
Oh Walky, if you’ve given up so easily already you were probably never really trying to begin with.
Now you know, Walky XDXDXDXD
Heh, they come out of the lesson on gender issues and challenging preconceptions and it’s “…the chicks”; “I tune them out”; “feel-feel crap”… the tune-out part going so far as disregarding you were standing right there having interrupted their prior conversation — which happened to revolve around Joyce dealing with the challenges to her preconceptions.
…and I suppose everybody should be just cool and happenin’ about being told that everything they believed and held dear is just crazy brainwashing, and it should be trivially easy for them to just throw it in the trash and embrace enlightenment?
Walky has now established himself as my least favourite character. Previously that was Joe, but he somehow managed to top him in blatant misogyny and being a douchebag in general.
hatred of women
Walky doesn’t hate women. Using terms one would find sexist does not equate hatred.
Yeah, Walky is *all* about the gender binary.
I don’t think Joyce will snap out of her beliefs to be honest, I think she’ll just accept the fact that the Bible has been wrong and that maybe there is still a God out there. Just not the God that she’s been taught in the Bible, since you know it’s been wrong.
Technically that would be snapping out of her beliefs, just not all of them at once.
What the Hell, Walkerton.
Damn it Walky!
I wonder who will cheer Joyce up in the next couple strips. Poor girl. its not her fault that she was raised this way those 18 years. I mean, her parents, family and the church and everybody she knew – they were her world. She lived in there, breathed the same air and had the same thoughts like them.
There she was happy.
Now she wants to stand up for herself and was the only girl who didn´t went to a christian college. Of cource she would see, hear and start to think herself many things which would have been just wrong before for her. But now, alot of that which could have been dismissed evil or wrong or whatever doesn´t feel as right as before.
Worse even, people who Joyce´s old pals would never gotten into contact with are geniuely nice and caring people who Joyce likes to have around her. Even if some of their opinions bugs her the wrong way.
I hope she wont leave and that she will adapt to her surroundings and do her own thing. There´s nothing wrong with loving god or living after the bible/god´s laws. It only gets wrong when you try to force it as the one real opinion.
Which would go for everything. Even an atheist can be a fucking asshole if he/she just goes on and on to somebody who clearly is a religous guy/girl that god doesn´t exist, that religion is stupid, etc..
Well, we´ll see.
I think it’s time for… sceeeeene change!
I believe the only appropriate response here is:
Why does Joyce have a band-aid on her upper right arm? Did she have to get an inoculation in order to attend college? I know that some folks reject vaccines for Religious reasons, which is the only one that seems to make sense to me…
Granted, she is really portrayed as having been brainwashed by an religious extreme background, and it’s about time for her wake up call from reality.
She had a flu shot. It happened within the comic strip. She had a short conversation with Dina about evolution immediately prior.
Joyce got a flu shot a few days before this strip takes place. (Given how slow time progresses in “Dumbing of Age” it nay have been the day before or even the same day.)
ninja’d by clodia.
Well he IS right about the brainwashed part.
He needed to be popped upside the head.
Eh, it needed to be said, and it’s not as if he’s wrong. As for tact, given that Panel #1 consists of Joe asking Walky what was up with Dotty and Joyce, it seems like a reasonable conclusion that they were at that point of time, not adjacent to Walky and Joe -which makes it a case of unfortunate return to the scene and not what much of the comments seem to make of it.
Also for tact, I gotta say that Joyce has said waaaaay worse and more ‘insensitive’/hurtful things about more than 50% of the cast. Cuteness – it really does matter when it comes to asshole scores. Also, crying = ultimate get out of jail card.
I’m wondering about this! She told Sarah she was still alone, she dismissed Dina’s beliefs and in doing so started an argument, she commented on Roz having a lot of sex, she’s talked about homosexuality being a sin in Ethan’s presence…
Obviously, the terrible TERRIBLE thing she’s done was getting Mike to chaperone her date with Joe (and the violent consequences), but Joe isn’t 50% of the cast. The other things I’ve listed were either sharing her beliefs to people very concerned about these issues and very upset with that way of thinking (Roz, Dina), she didn’t know Ethan was a homosexual at the time, and Sarah still being alone admittedly was pretty cold.
I agree about cuteness/ignorance muffling a lot of the assholery (or coating it in the laffs from the punchlines it causes), but so does the snarkasm Walky engages in.
If I’ve missed any incidents (I’m sure I have), tell me! I’m interested in comparing this.
When she found out Walky had dumped Dorothy, she stormed over and told him, basically, that he wasn’t allowed to dump someone who was an infinitely better person than he was.
She said to Walky’s face while physically assaulting him: “You are the stupidest little piece of poop I have ever met.”
So yes, she has said a much worse thing to Walky himself.
Well, there goes my argument down the drainage hole.
Now here’s my question, has Joyce ever actually thought her her own thought process as being “brainwashing”? Sure, she knows everyone thought differently than her, but I wonder if it ever was phrased like this.
Walky was an insensitive jerkwad with this line (poor guy, hope he learns something from this), but maybe it will give Joyce a new angle to think things through. Namely, how she comes off to everyone else.
Insensitive maybe but that wasn’t a conversation he meant Joyce to hear specifically. He is also being honest if in a walky-ish way of saying it.
I love Dorothy. Can we all take a moment to forget how foot-in-mouth Walky is and adore Dorothy instead?
Always adore Dorothy.
It’s okay Joyce. Stupid people make all of us cry, for a variety of reasons. Walky on the other hand needs to be slapped across the face with a clue by four.
Now I just feel bad…
Well, Walky is right. Joyce is a total religi-drone. She should cry, for being stupid.
Ignorant, not stupid.
Looks like were back around the horn to ” joyce has a belief shattering revelation.” Looks like a fire alarm only derails punctuality, and not the cycle of DoA.
2: Possibly still not good?
There are a lot of people saying this is something she needed to hear, and I’m not sure that’s true. The intense negative reaction should prove that straight away. Something you need to hear may catch you off-guard, may unsettle you. It doesn’t send you sobbing and running in the opposite direction like you just met Pyramid Head and Darkseid making out in a dark alley. If anything, it’s something she doesn’t need to hear! It’s a big scary world out there and everyone’s strange and peculiar and new, and she’s alienated a lot of them through her beliefs.
“Boiling pot of emotions” is fine. “Can’t deal with this feely-feely crap” is blasé but fine. “Brainwashed” is terrible. It puts into words a general feeling that’s been building up here — Joyce is different, she’s wrong, she’s at odds with everyone. And it’s how she’s been raised. It’s what she’s been taught to believe is right. The feeling of doom can come up there and make everything seem hopeless, like you were built wrong and it’s too late too change it, there’s nothing you can do, why did her parents make this happen, etc.
Essentially, she’s left her safe hometown and she’s out in reality, and nobody seems to like her here. She’s got Dorothy (the best) and Sarah (best at genuine telling it like it is), but they both seem at odds with her as well (big argument with Sarah last time we saw her, Dorothy disagreeing with her about one of the most important things in her life). The world at large is a lot bigger than her hometown.
Essentially: She was raised a certain way, she’s going out into the world, she’s interacting with people in the way she was raised, and reality rejects her.
…And another thing (buy your copy today!), Walky’s being thoughtless here but I’m not sure he’s an asshole. He says it in the very same bubble: He’s not good at this emotions stuff, and he’s really relaxed about his language. It’s unfortunate word choice that just happens to confirm all Joyce’s worst fears.
Dorothy is MONDO GREAT. She’s trying to protect Joyce from the world while simultaneously guiding her through it and she’s really been there when she needed her and it’s obvious Dor means a lot to Joyce and so far she’s been so emotionally stable and mature. She’s just really level-headed and really controlled and very, very strong.
(Pfft. Two essentiallys.)
Walky might not be very good at it but he could at least try. Language-wise, he’s not so much relaxed as completely oblivious to when and how it is appropriate to make comments like that.
I completely agree about Dorothy though.
I think Dorothy is being too soft on her (not her fault, really, she just likes Joyce and being a future politician means she’s good at not alienating people) we’re talking about changing something at the core of Joyce’s identity, that particular brand of Christianity has been the center point of her life forever, and she really needs it to be pounded in that if she wants to participate in the world around her (which is why she came to IU in the first place) that it’s not just factually wrong, but socially unacceptable. I think she needs help that neither Dorothy nor Walky can give her, but Dorothy trying to tiptoe through it was going to make her less likely to need to seek it out.
Well, I think the problem is that she has been learning, through her alienation of people, that it is socially unacceptable, but such a large difference between her personal world and the real world is pretty hard to get over or understand. More pushing at that point begins to become a “you don’t belong here”, and she’s already been hurt a lot by “the world outside”, so I’m worried that she’ll start thinking that she needs to return to her friends or family or the way she was raised because she’s not welcome in the world beyond. Which isn’t necessarily the case!
She thinks that she has to change, and that’s what she’s worried about. She’s worried everyone is trying to change her (heck, that’s the topic of the first comic), but she doesn’t–she just has to cover it up, or be milder about it, or more open to other people. I think she already knows it’s socially unacceptable, but is now thinking that the problem is with something ingrained in her rather than behavior she can change, you know?
But who has she actually alienated? Walky never liked her, she never cared about Joe, Sarah and Dorothy either aren’t bothered by it or aren’t letting it show. She hasn’t actually lost any real friends over it which is something that I think she’d have to. Someone has to get it through to her “I can’t be cfiends with you if you continue acting like this.”
I think she did care about Joe, or at least she had expectations for their date. Walky may not have liked her, but they’ve still hung out and talked. I don’t think she has to be friends with people already for her to notice it, since she tries to be a pretty friendly person — just the fact that people are irritated by her views might be enough. (Roz shouting at her, Dina making it her only topic of conversation.)
I started this webcomic series last night, and its great. I have finally caught up.
I’m not sure who is more insensitive, Walky in this strip or the majority of the people posting comments to this strip.
Hopefully this next one follows Joyce rather than Walky. Don’t want to leave her crying for more than one strip.
Of course, Willis seems to feed off of our sorrow, so I dunno.
Hey Willis, I had a question. Other people’s (random) gravatars seem to have changed (in some cases several times) since I began posting here on the regular. However, mine seems to be stuck on Mike. Is that because of the many Mike-like remarks I have made in the past, or just dumb luck?
(either way, I will be extremely pleased :D)
Sorry Joyce, truth hurts (Walky).
Joyce increasingly worries me… I grew up in the denomination/movement that I think Joyce said she was (or at the very least, the one that Anderson University is) and knew many homeschooled kids in my youth group… none were as socially lost as Joyce. I attended a sister school of Anderson’s and there was no difference between it and your average campus save having religious classes and chapel. The only time I ever met anyone like Joyce was the short period I attended Pensacola Christian College… Only they were far less tolerant than Joyce.
But I digress, as I said, she worries me. I guess because I’ve never actually seen a homeschool kid who actually fit the stereotype… Also because she seems totally unwilling to agree to disagree with anyone…
A thousand smakes too the head walky, damn and this is just there first month
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Who is the main character of Dumbing of Age?
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