Discussion (306) ¬
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David M Willis! @damnyouwillis.bsky.social ⋅ 22d
Bayjmin Tuckles @bayjmin-tuckles.bsky.social ⋅ 17h
David M Willis! @damnyouwillis.bsky.social ⋅ 22d
Brian Tyler Cohen @briantylercohen.bsky.social ⋅ 21h
Mae Dean @maegodhavemercy.com ⋅ 2d
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HOWARD
OH GOD ITS BEGUN
In the future, noting all the comments to come after yours, your comment has become incredibly apt. Well done sir.
And may I have your crystal ball?
STARK
In a cave with a box of scraps?
I don’t know what we’re doing.
SHARPE
THE DUCK
Winner by default.
STERN
PATRICK HARPER
ER…BOROMIR
HUGHES
Lettuce?
YOU?
FINE THANKS FOR ASKING
BE THY NAME
WOLOWITZ!
BRIAN MAY
BRIAN BLESSED.
LEROOOOOOOY JENKINS!!
HIPPOPOSTIMUS
WHY ARE WE ALL SHOUTING?
I DON’T KNOW!
GODAMMIT WHY DIDN’T I THINK OF LEROY!
KRIPKE!!
SPAWN
LOUD NOISES
I see waht you did there… I like it, do it again.
GARY OAK!
10 BADGES!
MARA WILSOOOOOOOON!
YOU KNOW NOTHING, JENNIFER BILLINGSWORTH.
DONKEY!
KHAAAAAN!
FRAU BLUCHER!
*HIGH-PITCHED WHINNY*
WHY ARE WE YELLING?!?
I’M IMITATING YOUR ENERGY.
I WANT TO JOIN IN BUT I CAN’T THINK OF ANY NAMES WHATSOEVER!
MOMO!!
HODOR
LOUD NOISES!!
RARGLE BLARGLE
YES
TYRION
NOOOOOOO
[Red Wedding time]
i had HBO during season one, but got rid of it b/c it was to expensive. now i have to wait over half a year for season three AND I REALLY WANT TO SEE THE WEDDING. my family watches the show together, but i’m the only one that’s read the books…lol
i like howard’s taste in TV
Just grin ominously through the entire episode.
Just remember, they deserve it for not reading the books. =P
HBOGO. Best part, I enraptured my sister’s boyfriend, knowing he’d share. She got hooked, and I laughed as I knew she would encourage my other sister. I have enjoyed the reaction of both separately. Now on to my final sibling. Surely it shouldn’t be hard. He’ll want to know what everyone’s talking about.
Luzahn – Nope. What happened to Talisa didn’t happen to Jeyne. And honestly, it was just gross of the director to handle that part the way he did.
Wait, are you saying that they made the Red Wedding worse for the show? I haven’t seen the show, and it was terrible enough in the books.
There’s one key difference Martin added specifically to kill a particularly popular fan theory.
Luzahn – Yes, they made it worse for the show.
Rex Hondo – The method he went with wasn’t necessary.
Luzahn – I’ll stop being cryptic.
***SPOILER***
Talisa is visibly pregnant and in attendance at the Red Wedding. She is killed by being stabbed repeatedly in the stomach. On screen.
It was completely vile and unnecessary.
Eeesh…
I would say it could be a measure to avoid speculation of a son somehow surviving, given what we know about red priests, but surely they could have just not made her pregnant.
Yep, pretty much. But had they followed the book more closely, they wouldn’t have gotten all of that yummy shock value!
And when you consider that the third leading cause of death in pregnant women is homicide, it adds an extra level of “ick” to the whole thing.
It’s a nice day for a RED Wedding!
It’s a nice day to START AGAIN!
“…There is nothin’ fair in this world
There is nothin’ safe in this world
And there’s nothin’ sure in this world
And there’s nothin’ pure in this world
Look for something left in this world…”
…The hell kind of greeting is that?
I knew a guy who greeted with “Up yours, buddy”.
I knew a guy who was doing “WASSSSSUUUUPPPP?!” as late as 2007.
Can we trade?
I need to greet people with
“I’ve seen you naked!”
It’s like how pokemon trainers never say anything relevant before the battle.
Yeah, like how shorts are comfortable and easy to wear.
I bet he gets paid by the shorts manufacturer to say that. It’s a type of grassroot marketing, dude gets free potion for his crappy Pokémon.
Which is remarkable, because the only thing department stores actually sell is stuff for pokemon. Mothers spontaneously generate clothing (like shoes) when you need it.
And apparently whatever shoes you start out with are literally impossible to run in. What are you wearing? Dress shoes? Heels?
Flip-flops, I guess.
Iron Boots, you just came back from the Temple of Water and you lost your regular shoe in the boss fight.
So THAT’S how you qualify to be a trainer. It was driving me crazy.
I can hardly believe that those bug catchers were able to beat the water temple.
Silly fool.
No one simply “beats” the water temple.
He’s the Dina of Game of Thrones
That statement is the Abed of Racism of Dumbing of Age.
Way to be the Britta of Similes of Dumbing of Age.
Back in Roomies! he was the Dina of Star Trek, but maybe now he’s moved on to generic geekness.
Yaaay! This’ll be funny.
And he’s into GoT instead of Star Trek in this reality? I figured he’d be into the new movies since he’s younger, and come dressed as Benedict Cumberbatch or something.
Hey at least it’s not Nero.
I bet Howard is into all of the above, plus D&D. Let’s see how long Billie can resist punching him!
Things Howard is probably into, aside from Game of Thrones:
– Star Trek
– Star Wars
– Doctor Who
– Discworld
– Neil Gaiman
– DC Comics
– Marvel Comics
– The Walking Dead
– Firefly
– Buffy the Vampire Slayer
– Angel
– Various Anime
– My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic
– Monty Python
Etc. etc. ad infinitum.
Depends on what kind of anime Howard likes, I’d say he’s my kind of guy.
– Checks list –
Hmm, everything but the animation. ( Well, aside from Ghost in the Shell)
I don’t know what to make of this.
I…I like all those things to varying degrees.
Maybe deep down I AM Howard.
We are all Howards.
What we found out is that each of us is a Dorothy, a Beef, a Joyce, a Billie, and a Sal. Does that answer your question, Professor Rees?
I have trouble believing Howard is sensible enough to be into pterry and neilhimself.
Howard seems like a pretty cool guy.
eh watches GoT and doesn’t afraid of anything.
Until the red wedding that is.
Huh, with the exception of The Walking Dead (read the first couple issues of the comic and dropped it), I have been interested in everything on that list to some degree at one time or another over the past three or so decades.
Ya, I don’t like Dr. Who, comics, and never watched Firefly or a single episode of Buffy, Angel, or MLP. Shortpacked is the only reason that I’m aware that MLP is a thing, actually.
On the other hand, I find the walking dead to be hilarious.
YOU HAVE NOT SEEN FIREFLY. YOU ARE LIVING A HALF-LIFE.
If you’ve seen at least three other series by Joss Whedon, you’ve seen enough to be able to interpolate Firefly.
(I used to be a fan, but the man only has one act, and he does it over and over and over.)
To be fair. You don’t even have to be a nerd to find mlp. I found out through accidentally falling into the worst parts of youtube
Supernatural. Also probably Alphas, Warehouse 13, and Eureka. And Battlestar Galactica.
I think he also needs to be into Homestuck.
Howard wouldn’t be into new Star Trek! He may be a complete loser, but he’s got STANDARDS, man.
Yea, I figured he would show up eventually, but I was expecting the Trek love to have been transformed to The Doctor love (as opposed to Dr. Love), or maybe Battlestar.
Howard isn’t a Trekkie in this universe? I’m not sure how I feel about that … but at least no making out with Janeway
Though I guess he could with Lena Heady
“That’s Hedeley!”
It’s Headey, I was closer
Damn younguns– get off of my lawn.
Don’t worry; I got it.
Me too, and I was surprised that many others did. Thought that would take a miracle.
I didnt get a Harumph out of that guy…
Take a free copy of Book One in lieu of pay
Perhaps maybe during this storyline Billie may learn to respect those she views as geeks, nerds, and dorks.
And perhaps I’ll learn how to shit bacon instead of fecal matter.
The nerds run the world, man.
Tell that to Billie.
She’s still in cheerleader mode.
She uses the words ‘life force’. Howard is going to notice.
I was a male cheerleader in college and a nerd– though I guess those are one and the same.. Although my wife was a college cheerleader and is reading them now and loves them
— (and I know multiple former cheerleaders that have read game of thrones–) but you have to remember that its now trendy to like it– not nerdy..
…you think exposure to HOWARD is going to do that? Even sarcastically?
Yeah, seriously, I’M the biggest nerd I know and even I instinctively want to give Howard a wedgie.
Howard is worse than Danny and Mary combined.
Woah… that’s a bit harsh!
I like nerds and Howard makes me want to punch them all in the face.
Instead of punching all of us in the face, just direct the extra punches at Howard.
He’s like a lightning rod of hate!
I literally cannot think of a better way to have Howard Introduced in the Dumbing of Age Universe.
Has Billie ever even heard of game of thrones?
Silly Mkvenner, books are for nerds.
I was thinking of the Showtime Series.
She’s probably heard of the HBO series, but I don’t think ANYONE’s heard of the Showtime one…
She knows enough about what it is so that she can shun those who like it.
Is she really that lonely?
It’s kind of her thing.
SHOUTING OUT REFERENCES!
…That’s Shortpacked in a nutshell. Good night.
“But this isn’t Shortp-”
KNOCK IT OFF.
Okay, for some weird reason my eyes didn’t process panel 1 right for a second, and I thought the arms of the chair Ruth is sitting down in were her legs, and she had turned into an Adventure Time character.
That is ACCEPTABLE!
ONE MILLION YEARS DUNG— oh, no, wait. What’s the opposite of one million years dungeon?
…probably should not have abbreviated “dungeon” as “dung—”. Whoops.
I think I’d rather have a million years dungeon than a million tears dung.
Which is worse: one million years of dung, or one million tears of dung?
“Tears of Dung” sounds like a really awful curse. I’m gonna ask my Pathfinder GM if my witch can research that one.
Just don’t ask your GM to throw in a Manure Golem.
You saw that video too, huh? I have to admit, “Everything went to shit!” had me howling.
One of the funniest roleplaying tales I ever heard could be summarized in three words. “Invisible fecal explosion.”
I remember meeting a guy who played D&D. He told me of one particular session that had him as a barbarian. They had to use a switch to flood the chamber with water, and then cross the room. The switch, of course was on the bottom of this quite large room. This man was into role playing as the character. Barbarians are not smart.
Long story short, he smashed the switch. Everyone ran to safety, but he decided to swim, UP, the waterfall.
It worked.
Thought that was the title of the next Game of Thrones book.
NEGATIVE ONE MILLION YEARS DUNGEON?
A taste of the Royal Tarts!
One Millisecond Field of Wildflowers.
Howard!
Now taking bets on how long until people want to strangle him.
I’m putting money down on “right now”.
Am I the only one here who don’t want to strangle Howard?
No, I’m with you. I could see myself discussing/arguing various interests for hours.
I also do not want to strangle him but instead will resort to the handyman’s secret weapon, duct tape.
This is only temporary, unless it works.
In universe or out? Because I already do.
IMMEDIATELY.
The better bet is on how long it will take him to sexually assault someone.
You can’t put an average nerd in a room with Billie for prolong periods. He hasn’t built up a resistance to that level of FINE.
I don’t know if anyone has a resistance to that.
Ruth’s alcoholic withdrawals haven’t got anything to do with alcohol, she’s just overdosing on Billie’s FINE!
How is everybody forgetting Danny got the full high beams of Billy’s FINE and told her thanks-but-no-thanks—and that’s when Billy was wearing GLASSES, supposedly his kryptonite!
HEY EVERYBODY IT’S HOWARD!
Aggh, it totally makese sense that a 2013 Howard would be into Game of Thrones. >_< Kudos to Willis for keeping his geek interests up-to-date!
He could have been into Homestuck. You know, to synergize with the latest Shortpacked :p
Howard would like to tell you all about Homestuck.
We all know how much Willis loves Homestuck and it’s shipping circles!
Gonna put aside my OMG HOWARD for a moment to point out that having neglectful parents and having dead parents aren’t the same thing, Billie, you dickweed.
I admit, that Batman panel with him slapping Robin wouldn’t have the same kick if he were wailing “MY PARENTS ARE JEEEERRRRKS!”
Well, they are dead to her. Just like how Captain Archer is dead to me.
Captain Archer?
Yes, Captain Archer.
Who is that?
Captain of the NX-01 Enterprise.
….oh, Enterprise. I keep forgetting that even happened. Worst series captain ever.
This is the Internet, it feeds off your rage. Please, give it another helping. Give us your Nerd Rage.
Archer was good, the series, however, sucked.
The odd thing is I thought Archer was a superb captain (ie, the actor fit well) in a very poor series.
But, yes, “Enterprise Never Happened”. I once edited footage from a old Frankenstein movie to get the angry mob carrying banners that said that
Tomorrow’s strip is just Batman swooping in to shout “My parents are dead!” punching Billie and then swooping away.
So, Sal punching Billie, then?
Nah, no way is Sal Batman. You have to have at least some respect for the law to be Batman. If anything, Sal is probably Anarky.
Yeah, Billie. You’re kinda bein’ REALLY insensitive. Good thing you’re pretty.
In before “was Game of Thrones aired when they started going to school and it’s only a few weeks after?” comments
The books were definitely out.
But they were called A Song of Ice and Fire.
Heh, my wait between “Song of Ice and Fire” books is longer than *(#$%&* “Game of Thrones” has been on the air. Deal with, biatch.
“Deal with, biatch.”
That’s what George RR Martin said.
In before somebody points you at the FAQ.
Hahahaha aww Howard~ I love how he’s into GoT. It suits him.
Is this how we’re greeting each other now? By shouting fantasy titles at each other?
“Game of Thrones!”
“And The Wise Man’s Fear to you, sir!”
God, I hope so. Merry Lord of the Rings to all, and to all, a good Harry Potter!
“It’s a fine Harry Potter.”
hey how are you doing?
LEAGUE OF LEGENDS
I’m sorry wha-
TEKKEN TAG TOURNAMENT TWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
So, you are frustrated, then?
SUPER STREET FIGHTER IV!!!!
You’re giving me mixed signals here.
METAL GEAR SOLID 4: GUNS OF THE PATRIOTS!!!
So, you’re excited yet the same time disappointed?
DEMACIA!
..I’m horrible at this.
DRAGON AGE!!
Sorry, I just wanted to be a part of it.
Hey, at least it’s not speaking Moon language.
Could be worse. Walky could do the whole comic in Kraang Speak from the new TMNT series on Nick.
Oddly, that wouldn’t sound too unnatural coming from Faz.
Attractive lady: “Willow, my good fellow”
Doctor_Who: “Krull.”
Attractive lady: “Gasp!” *Slap*
Hey, at least you didn’t Gor.
Gor is illegal in my state.
Damn moralist politicians. When are they going to learn that Gor is completely natural?
Of course, Beastmaster is outlawed in Florida.
Then again, thinking is outlawed in Florida. Well, the Internet is banned in Florida due to some poor wording but that poor wording also somehow covers thinking as well, at least that’s what I heard.
Ladyhawke’s still legal though, right?
“Legend of Zelda.” (Now that’s a greeting.)
I see someone watches WTFIWWY?
I’m surprised someone would take the time to ban Gor, which I was introduced to at my library’s Take One, Leave One table.
Anything that can interface with the Internet is illegal, which includes brains.
You do realize that “teh interwebz” and “thinking” frequently seem to be mutually exclusive concepts, right?
Then again, I’m sure that the FL legislature can somehow ban both.
Are you talking about the Dray Prescot books, or something else? I have most of them, but gave up at number 20 or so. It started out good, then got really silly, then turned into rape porn.
And,of course, by Dray Prescot, I meant Tarl Cabot. Sorry, I mixed up the two series for some reason, which I find strange, as I love the Scorpio books.
I’d be up for that myself.
So basically all of DoA will now read like it was taken from the Next Generation episode ‘Darmok’?
Joe and Howard in the Walkyverse.
Ethan and Zeke in the Wasteland
Ron and Snape in the dormitory with their wands…..
….. And it was Sexy
for any that don’t read QC this is a reference to it, specifically
a character who has a HORRIBLE grasp of how to write erotic fanfiction.
Wise Man’s Fear!!! So in love with that book!
Oh…I’m sorry. This thread isn’t really about that, is it?
I just wish it didn’t take Rothfuss 5 or 6 years to release each successive book in the series! Especially when he said after the Name of the Wind that he already had the whole story already finished in his mind!
It’s killing me to wait, too! But I’m guessing that one reason the books are so good is that he’s not speed-writing them… On the bright side, it gives me an excuse to reread the whole thing when book III comes out!
Make it about it.
I like the way you roll, Mr. Random.
Rothfuss is the most amazing storyteller around at this moment.
Agree, as long as he doesn’t pull a Robert Jordan.
You say farewell to people with, “A Merry Song of Ice and Fire to you.”
Return of the King!
Excellent intro. of Howard to DoA via the door of Ruth’s room.
And I fail to see why Howard can’t be both Trekkie and GOT fan. I am.
I have all the original tv series and while I could live with the followups and even enjoyed a few of them, the first was the best (Imo). As for GoT, I’m mapping the continents of Westeros and Essos, on my autocad. Also putting together a timeline/family line. So, enjoy Howard, just try not to expect everyone else to do so.
I was going to say something very similar. You can be a fanatic of multiple nerdy things. I am a huge Doctor Who fan, Green Lantern fan, Sherlock fan, Supernatural fan, Star Wars fan…. etc. etc. And my friends wouldn’t even consider me to be a huge nerd (though a proudly consider myself one).
So for Howard to be the nerdiest of nerds he must be a fan of multiple nerdy things.
HOWARD! I kinda wondered if he’d ever be a part of the DOA universe.
So guys who’s more unbearable, Danny or Howard?
Feel free to use the Multiverse for comparison purposes.
Howard makes Danny look like Walky.
Howard’s strange, but I don’t look at him and then sigh and turn away shaking my head like I would with Danny.
Howard has thus far had one 3 word line and I already want to drop kick him.
I want to Rider Kick him out of the building.
Seriously though, why the sudden blood lust against Howard?
I blame his face. It looks so… punchable.
Just following the cool kids crowd hahaha.
Which Rider? I’d go with Decade`s.
I’d go with Black.
I’d go with OOO from what I remember.. I prefer W as a series, but W’s rider kick is more than a little silly.
Faiz`s was pretty neat.
Someone already said Black so I go with Amazon.
Amazon didn’t really have a kick did he? He mostly violently dismembered foes. How about Fourze? A drill is pretty violent.
Yeah but Fourze’s design is kinda….. I never really liked it. And I REALLY need to watch Wizard.
…That’s a bit harsh, don’t you think?
Yay. I got my hovertext working. Or something did anyway.
I don’t know HOW but I somehow misread the hovertext as “Get your brother some dick.”
It’s a clearly a message from the gods. That’s ineffability for you.
The one character I never felt any sympathy for…except for that one time
But oh man…that one time…*sniffle*
I think that I laughed for a good 5 minutes at the thought of Howard just greeting a random stranger by shouting “Game of Thrones” at them. And then I think of him shouting those words at Ruth, and I remember their dynamic in Roomies! and I get all emotional.
Ruth doesn’t respond when Howard says that anymore.
I think a better greeting would’ve been just “Hodor!” But then anyone who didn’t know GoT wouldn’t get it…
Wait has he said that to everyone he’s seen??
Joe: “Sup dude.”
Howard: ” GAME OF THRONES!”
Joe proceeds to wedgie him……… in the FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE
Hell, Even Joyce would give him a wedgie. He’s practically asking for it.
Howard: “Game of Thrones!”
Dina: “Jurassic Park.”
And then they made out.
I think even Dina would perceive him as social poison.
Dina: I apologize but it appears that your actions will make me a target for negative social interactions unless I leave.
Then she leaves.
Then a panel of Howard staring.
Howard: She’s perfect.
As long as it keeps him from talking I can’t complain
IT’S PERFECT!
That… gives me PSL for Dina.
You, my friend, have some serious talent. Also, how is Howard talking?
And it was sexy.
It was about time Billie met the future in-law.
when did Billie get so good looking?
From the very beginning?
I do not understand the question, as it implies that Billie was ever anything less than sexy.
Instead of good bye, does he say “Breaking Bad”?
I am now greeting everyone I meet this way.
Y’know I meant to say this the other day but got distracted. It’s always been a little disconcerting how alike Billie and I are physically. And yet our personalities are almost complete opposites! BUT NOW BILLIE’S WEARING MY CLOTHES TOO?!?
Easiest cosplay ever?
Willis watches you sleep.
I propose that “Game of Thrones!” becomes Secret DoA Fan Greeting. All in favor?
no
maybe?
So Billie’s hanging out with Ruth’s family. And when I say “Billie’s hanging out” I mean her chest, for I am puerile.
David Willis, thank you for all the cleavage shots from different angles for the past few comics
Given the amount of sex and nudity, isn’t watching GoT with your sister going to be a little awkward?
I think the brother-sister incest would make it more awkward than the soft pr0n.
I had a nightmare last night that Howard using, “Game of Thrones!” as a greeting at his sister’s door was shorthand for, “I’m here for our Jamie/Cersei roleplay!”
(Ruth’d be Jamie, of course. I think that makes Billie Breanne.)
………..
YOTOMOE, YOU’RE NEEDED HERE!
And, given her common mode of ingress and egress, Sal has unwittingly volunteered to play the role of Bran Stark.
Ruth pushes Sal out of a window?
Hmmmmmm.
Here’s hoping Howard knows Ruth is bi and straight up asks Billie if she is Ruth’s girlfriend.
Howard’s First Line Ever: not completely implausible. In a book I’ve been reading about autistic spectrum disorders, one interviewee said that as a teenager, her idea of conversation involved firing out-of-context lines from Tank Girl comics at people. Which must have been disconcerting.
Or he doesn’t have one, and was assuming his sister liked the show too, and would (you know) answer the door.
And now, the obligatory Blazing Saddles quote:
“Oh, blow it out your ass, Howard.”
(It’s been way too long with no Blazing Saddles quotes.)
“Never mind that shit, HERE COMES HOWARD!”
Best entrance ever pal!
I don’t want to dropkick Howard O_o Is it because I don’t know him from Roomies?
Yes. That’s the only possible reason to not want to dropkick Howard.
Not necessarily. Howard’s pathetic, true, but at least he wasn’t a passive-aggressive, moralistic douche like Danny.
True, at least with Howard we can see him trying to kiss one of the Lannister. But Danny…. ugh.
Howard is, I think, my single least favorite Walkyverse character. That includes Faz, Mary, and Danny – whose death I have openly called for on more than one occasion. I think the problem is that, unlike Faz, Mary, and Danny, who are just characters that I can hate, Howard feels like a insult directed at nerds in general, which I take kind of personally – though I know Willis wouldn’t have intended it that way.
Ruth’s expression in panel 3…is that…dread?
I’m kind of hoping he comes in and says “Is this your new girlfriend?” or something like that. I also hope they include Billie and not leave her in her room alone.
I’m just waiting for when he meets Mike. Or Joyce. Either encounter would be fun.
Billie is having a hard time dealing with the mainstream-ness of dorky culture nowadays.
Just thought about the fact that Billie apparently thinks that “dorks” just randomly knock on doors to say dorky things. Like that’s just what they do. I don’t think it works that way, Billie. I mean, I never knock; it ruins the element of surprise.
NOBODY expects the fannish exposition!
Seems as reasonable an explanation as any for the observed facts.
Wow. I didn’t know they were siblings! (But then again I only ready the later parts of IW) I’m not worried of him being possibly extremely annoying.
He can’t possibly be worse than that annoying young girl in another webcomic. fudge, she sucked so bad. Like a little Mary Sue hogging all the storyline pages. Oh oops! Sorry for the little rant!
Jeez, Billy, just because Ruth’s an orphan, it doesn’t mean she doesn’t have other family she’s been looking forward to seeing…
Speaking of Billie’s insane “orphan” comment…
I wonder who the “sir” was she was talking to? http://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-1/05-media-rumble/sir/
Peppermint Patty, obviously.
Yeah, that’s a perfectly normal greeting.
Now that Howard’s been introduced, I’m just going to come out and and say that Faz is totally going to be his roommate.
Howard is the Faz of Dumbing of Age
I don’t believe Howard’s a freshman. Prolly just visitting Ruth for the day or somehting.
Howard and Faz will be roommates when Dumbing of Age finally advance an year, then.
I actually want this to be true. It would be fairly hilarious.
Hail house Targaryen. May Westeros be united in blood and fire once more.
LOL “It’s just some dork.”
Naturally I’m watching GoT at the same time…