We gotta find a new word for these sorta people; buttholes just ain’t cuttin’ it anymore.
What’s, like, deeper and more terrible than buttholes? Sphincters? Ovipositors, maybe?
It makes me think of Isabella Rossellini gracefully prancing around in a silly animal costume and describing nature’s most horrifying reproductive organs.
i wouldn’t want to call him “Cloaca”, because it would dishonor the memory of poor Cloaca Mahoney, who was the PC in an LP of Hatoful Boyfriend I read.
(If you’re not familiar with Hatoful Boyfriend, I recommend looking this up. It is sheer insanity in pigeon-based dating sim form. And I mean to an even greater degree than just the phrase “pigeon-based dating sim” would imply.)
I’m tempted to start calling people like that tumors. Seems a good illustration, they’re horrible to have. They drain you, and you have to go through a special brand of living hell to get rid of them. The real sneaky ones…well…sometimes it takes you a while to realize they’re there at all, but when you do, it’s a horrible thing to find.
My general go to formula for an insult is adjective+animal+food; for example: ‘stupid pig bagel’. For this kind of sleazeball though, I’m just gonna ramp it all the way up to ‘steaming pile of bloody, shit-covered, horse smegma’, which is just about the worst thing I can think of calling anyone
Seriously: The Worst. Willis was kind enough to share the sequence with the Patreon people. Knowing only the bare minimum about J&W or about the Walkyverse in general, still, my blood was boiling. Fucking Ross.
As a “sad, square little man” who doesn’t share Ross’ opinions, I am sad that Willis has selected this body shape to give to an asshole. I know some shape had to be selected, but I hope everyone hating Ross recognises that hate comes in all body shapes and not to attribute Ross’ hate to the fact that he is a “sad, square little man.”
Of course. (That was at least half a Toy Story joke, anyway.)
Also also: ‘300 question survey”, and if you answer any of them differently, you’re a heretic, which is worse than a godless sinner/ignorant heathen because you’re doing it wrong.
Ohhh… so he thins down considerably below the chest then. I take it the camo pants confirm that he’s ex-military, as some have suggested?
(Oh God he’s one of those dominionist gun nuts, isn’t he)
(I can’t help but think of American Beauty)
Well that guy seems like a kind, rational, understanding man who excepts people’s beliefs even when they contradict his-ppffftt NO! He’s a complete tool! The strips were pretty funny though.
That second strip at least reminds me of this amusing flowchart of “Things that lead to mixed dancing”. Also the joke that premarital sex is forbidden because it could lead to mixed dancing.
I dunno if anyone can be worse then Blaine… Controlling, both physically and mentally abusive, and willing to kidnap acquaintances in an effort to control you? Blaine is about as awful as you can get… Ross can only hope to tie.
Nope, sorry–still can’t believe that asshat spawned Becky.
Blaine… *almost* believable [but horrible]. “Becky’s dad” looks like he actually made the “babies come from the store” myth a reality, ’cause what is even going on there, how does Becky have a mom with that
School kicked her out, parents disowned her completely, Kaitlin got to stay in school unfairly. At least she wasn’t kicked out, her parents didn’t disown (although they don’t accept her for who she is, which still sucks), and Kaitlin DID get to stay in school, but Becky wasn’t kicked out.
To be honest, that sounds worse than disowning. I mean even in the short term that would be psychologically hellish; I don’t want to think about that sort of suppression’s long-term damage.
When I lived in the SF Bay Area, Queer was being used as a catch all term for people who didn’t fit the ‘accepted’ categories — my understanding is there’s at least one additional whole new orthogonal spectrum ranging from asexual to … Joe|Roz — with aromantic to romantic out there as well …
… as for gay = lesbian … remember how gay used to just mean something like carefree & happy? AFAIK gay is pretty much exclusively used for male homosexuals now …
Usually people put Q, it is suppose to mean Questioning but a lot of people take that to mean Queer and since it is a reclaimed word it is troublesome to some. I usually add AD to the end of it for Asexual and Demisexual.
Weirdly, my newspaper refuses to use LGBT except in quotes because it’s technically redundant, even though that’s the preferred nomenclature. We’re, uh, a bit old-fashioned.
+ is because some people/organizations add more to the acronym.
Q=questioning (I’ve also had people say it stands for queer.)
A=allied
If there’s a second A, it sometimes means asexual.
There are more, but I have to start asking/looking up the group when there’s more than that.
pansexuals, asexuals, intersex people, and questioning people for starters. and yeah lol lesbians are just gay girls so that’s a bit redundant, but when you just say gay the mental picture is that of two guys, so it’s like a necessary redundancy i guess? people tend to forget about lesbians as it is
A is for asexual (also aromantic?), not for ally/allied. The LGBT+ community is not our community (as allies) because their struggles aren’t our struggles, no matter how good of an ally we are. We can be LGBT+ advocates (as in advocates for LGBT+ people), but then we don’t advocate for ourselves as allies.
I’ve gone from using LGBT+ to LGBTQIA+ (Lesbian, Gay, Bi, Trans, Queer, Intersex, Asexual, etc), and then to just using MOGAI (Marginalized Orientations, Gender Identities and Intersex). Much more inclusive without having to extend an initialism.
I’ve recently run across the use of GSD (Gender and Sexual Diversity) and that one seems like my preferred term. Much less unwieldy, if a bit less iconic.
Hopefully there isn’t anything historically problematic with it.
for a while i’ve been using gsm, same as gsd but ending in “minorities” instead -i’ve seen some people dislike this term cos they feel it could easily include like straight kinksters, but i trust people to be smarter than to group super persecuted trans folk along with unfairly shamed chubby chasers. also there’s quiltbag which i know of because of that t campbell comic, but personally i don’t like the sound of it in any context other than glossing over the community as a whole, and even then just for convenience ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I think my favourite is “QUILTBAG”, the acronym so self-aware it’s allowed to vote. Several of the letters stand for multiple things- good luck figuring them all out!
Historically, the “A” *did* stand for Ally, so it’s understandable some people still use it that way. It’s fallen out of favor for the reason Robin states, but some older people/organizations still use it that way.
Nothing Willis has ever done in any part of the Walkyverse has ever actually brought tears to my eyes… Congratulations -Sentinel-, you’ve done what Willis could not.
Holy shit, is this actually real? Are some people actually so paranoid that their kid is “at risk” that they’d expose them to these weird shady things?
Oh, if you are out to save your daughter’s immortal soul, you’ll not be above organizing a neighborhood gang rape for her and forcing yourself to watch. Exorcise the evil female spirit that has taken a hold of her.
I don’t think Willis is going there, but once some religious enclave is homogenuous and determined enough to go into self-amplifying mode, scary shit happens.
well dad did want to straight camp her so……. im now looking forward to her going to ruth for help and what needs to happen happening
(damn you willis if something like this doesn’t happen)
Becky crashes in the dorms with ruth helping hide her or she contacts a group that helps lgbt kids/young adults, she looks for/get a job probably something low paying, she finds someplace (maybe a multi-room mate situation) in which to live
There is a pizza place that doesn’t discriminate on gender issues, primarily because the owner has prosopagnosia. He also has megalomania. Becky could play off his issues. Yes, this will all have a happy ending.
Baaaaad stuff happens when parents try to fix their gay kids. Conversion therapy, corrective rape, troubled youth camps, just a whole bunch of heinous, heinous shit. Honestly, given how horribly bigoted her parents seem to be, I don’t blame Becky for running away, even a little bit.
Agreed. The whole conversion therapy thing disgusts me. But, Becky ran away, so that’s not happening. Again, this could have tuned out FAR worse for Becky. Parents still obviously care about her and what happens to her, and she not going through a process as terrible as so-called conversion.
Honestly, Im just trying to be optimistic about this whole thing.
Oh goddammit, Kaitlin did throw her under the bus. Understandable, but ugh. I suppose that clears up the lingering questions about the two.
Also, Ross Macasshole can go DIAF, kthxbye. I only the read the J&W! strips last night, at which point it became clear that Becky’s family weren’t going to be any help here.
Joyce – go talk to Dotty and/or Leslie, stat. And really listen to Becky, like she’s asking you to, and then re-evaluate your relationship with Ethan.
Huh, that was supposed to be a new comment, not a reply.
Anyway, the actual reply here was yes, you can really see how Becky’s dad cares for her in the way his reaction is all about “discipline” and “fixing” her as opposed to, say, acceptance or concern.
Thank you. Too many people think the “I’m going to fix my gay kid” parents actually CARE about their child. They don’t care about their child, they care about themselves and their reputation within their like-minded community.
Betty Anne, I’d disagree. Most of them, sure. But there are some that honestly and earnestly think that their atrocious attempts at ‘fixing’ the kid are an attempt to help them. Sure, they’re misguided and wrong and abusive. But they aren’t malicious, which, in a way, makes them MORE scary. I just think of Vorbis from Terry Pratchett’s Small Gods. He wasn’t evil in his motivations, but he managed to be one of the worst characters in all the Discworld books (even worse than Teatime or Lord Snapcase, and just as bad as Lily Weatherwax or the elves).
Well not only is it a term, but that really is something men like Becky’s father often to do “fix” their gay daughters, as I know from first hand experience.
Oh come on. We are talking about a country here who thinks their leaders and the services under their command are to be applauded for making the CIA do a heroic and patriotic duty using “Enhanced Interrogation Techniques” (including rape, by the way) on suspects until they are dead or marred for life. Just to make sure that they indeed know nothing worthwhile or are not connected to terrorists other than having their neighbors killed by drones and having suspicious names and skin color.
So what’s wrong with corrective rape if it accomplishes the job? Like, reducing the number of people who could continue to live and function in some not-compatible-with-my-bible-reading relationship?
That’s literally what your ex vice president Cheney stated: he is fine with torture as long as it does the job (by the way: it doesn’t, but that does not really make a difference regarding its total immorality).
And “corrective rape” more likely than not does the job: making it impossible for someone to lead a reasonably happy non-standard-conforming life.
Don’t take me wrong: there are deeply religious people I have a lot of respect for. Most of them, however, use their religion to govern their own lives rather than ruin that of others. They use religion as a guide rather than as a weapon.
That sounds magnificent. Joyce comes to class, and she’s like, “Excuse me professor, remember how on the first day you said that Women’s Studies is really only for lesbians…?”
I dunno, but I bet Commander Vimes would make short work of Ross if he came after Becky. Lu-Tze of the History Monks would probably be willing to interfere too.
Oh man oh man, I swear if this is the next strip or something, I don’t have patreon access so this is just a guess. But, you know who Joyce would be quite reasonable to go and ask for help?
Her R.A.
That’s bordering on the best possible thing I can imagine her doing here, too!
Aren’t the Walkyverse and Dumbiverse canonically adherent to the “many worlds” multiverse concept, where every possible variation of every event ever actually happens in parallel? So everything IS a spoiler, somewhere!
Guesses are not spoilers… spoilers are only based on actual knowledge of what happens next. So if you’re a Patreon patron and come here to alert the hoi polloi then that’s a spoiler. If you’re making a guess and get lucky, that’s just good luck – congratulations.
Yeah, Becky and SP!Leslie definitely followed similar paths up to this point. We never actually saw Leslie interact with her parents as a child or young adult, though, and while we’re only alluding to it here, Becky is younger than any incarnation of Leslie ever seen, so we’re getting a much more immediate, up-close look at things which were only backstory in Leslie’s case.
And… er… there is no GUARANTEE Becky will keep following Leslie’s basic path and not end up going back home to her dad to be reindoctrinated after all. She’s got formidable spirit, but that is not always enough to overcome a lifetime of rigid, controlling behavior.
In any case, Leslie had the good fortune to make a go of it with her first personal OTP (eventually). It is exceedingly unlikely that Becky will do the same.
Oh yeah, the character from P&A that went to S*P and ended up rooming with the character from QoW. Randy is great about housing webcomic orphans… Did you read the Life with Rippy where Randy is the last living webcomic artist, and every comic was left to him to continue, and he’s plotting massive crossovers while minions sketch, ink, and color the scripts… I think he had all kinds of IV tubes because he didn’t have time to eat or sleep, so nutrition and stimulants were pumped into him constantly.
I do feel obligated toe mention that the only nailing I can even bring myself to think about with that guy would involve the 6″ steel kind and a hammer …
At the risk of being serious “… I can even bring myself to think about …” was intended to convey that thoughts of sadistic murder were as far as I was willing to go … but you’re right — I’ve really got to learn to not contribute to the idea that violence = solution …
Ross is speeding right past the Browns, Walkertons, Siegals, and Wilcoxes for most shitty parent award, but still pulling up short of our reigning champion, Blaine.
All parties put together a good showing. *slow clap, throws tomatoes*
Almost all of them are okay-ish. Ross is on a separate plane of awful from the rest of them, just from a flash judgment. And Blaine is on a whole separate plane of awful above that.
Mike’s parents are this scary kind of 50’s-stereotype, Ozzie-and-Harriet kind of supportive that’s horrible in its own way. It’s why Mike is decent and well-adjusted, but an asshole.
So Kaitlin did turn against her? Aww 🙁 But the school didn’t actually expel them? That’s surprising. It’s weird though with Becky presumably being 18 that her parents could just pull her out of school like that but I guess even if she is a legal adult the school being a religious institution would defer to her parents?
My parents are paying for my college (thankfully). Cancellation is definitely possible for mine (which is not Anderson) between semesters. I’m not sure about mid-semester, though.
I’m really glad my parents aren’t bigoted assholes.
I’m pretty sure the college didn’t kick Becky out because he stopped paying. That’s his fight with them, probably later; Becky said he “pulled her out of college” which implies more forbidding her to go than getting her kicked out.
Good luck cancelling a check that got paid out a month ago. It can nominally happen, but you’ll have to prove they’re a scam to your bank (and probably their’s). Have fun with that.
But you know, they can make her life hell even if she stays, and Rent very well might be monthly.
My guess would be that the school was prepared to kick them both out, but agreed not to impose the maximum penalty if the parents agreed to a lesser one. Kaitlin’s parents supported her remaining in school as long as she renounced her evil lesbian ways and blamed Becky for everything. Becky’s parents (or father at least) chose more extreme measures. Ross might have been planning on conversion therapy.
Adding to what people have said about tuition: even if her expenses for the term are all paid up, why would she stay there for the rest of the term knowing she’ll have to leave? Everyone there knows she’s gay and Kaitlin turned against her. That campus is probably like a nightmare. And even if her parents can’t get the tuition back, her housing and meal plan might be more tenuous.
I have a hard time just excusing Kaitlin when she so obviously sold Becky out. But on the other hand, she’s just some scared kid, who’s right to be fearful of the backlash if Becky’s situation is any indicator…
But, yeah, you’ve chosen a just punishment for the rest of them.
Yep, that’s the thing. What Katlin did is obviously a thing that’s harmful, but she’s also under the definition of duress. The same horrible punishments might just be waiting for her. It doesn’t matter how cynically or how grudgingly agreed to sell out Becky. And a college education, rightly or wrongly (Probably wrongly, given the barriers we put up to getting one) is really fucking important to a future.
Eh, we don’t actually know Kaitlin’s side of it. Maybe cynically threw Becky under the bus, but maybe she tried to stand up for her and it didn’t help, or maybe she convinced herself that Becky really *did* seduce her and is in full on denial- there’s just too little information to make any kind of judgement of her, imo.
Just reread the comic and Becky does say “she told everyone I was a bad influence or something like that,” which does sound like selling her out, but the “something like that” indicates to me that Becky heard it second-hand and may not know the whole story.
I think simply being in that position qualifies as coercion. I doubt there’s anything Kaitlin could have done that would have really helped Becky, and I find it pretty plausible that even attempting to would simply have put Kaitlin in the same boat.
I’m making some character judgments based on the Walkyverse strips Willis posted on Tumblr, but it seems likely that Kaitlin could’ve said, “It was totally my idea and my only regret is that we didn’t lock the door,” and, while it might’ve helped Becky’s morale, it would’ve just meant that instead of taking Becky out of school to “fix” her, shitbrick would’ve taken Becky out of school to get her away from the corrupting influence of the homogays, and maybe done some preventative “fixing” just in case she caught the gay, and it might well have gotten Kaitlin kicked or taken out of school, too.
So I’m finding it hard to blame Kaitlin for saving herself. Though I won’t say that Becky doesn’t have reason to feel bitter about it.
… Though she might have tried, “So, uh, funny story, we were changing into our pajamas, and when Becky was taking her pants off, she tripped over them and fell on me and knocked me over onto her bed and landed with her face right in front of my you know and we both shouted and I might have taken the Lord’s name in vain because I lost my glasses and that’s when the RA came in and found us naked with Becky’s face between my legs. So you see it totally wasn’t what it looked like. I’m not even sure what you think it looked like. I don’t know anything about this stuff you’re talking about. It sure sounds sinful to me.”
Perhaps, I could believe, if I could believe in hope, or fate, or even random chance acting in their favor. But, the god of this universe is WILLIS. There is no hope.
She’s been told, repeatedly. There are no insurance companies that will pay for “reparative therapy” because it has been proven not to work, in fact the former head of the association for reparative therapy recently got married to his longtime male partner…
I’m wondering who Opus is talking about, because the only other MJ I can think of is Mary Jane Watson-Parker, and, while I haven’t read Spider-Man comics in a while, that doesn’t really seem like a direction Marvel would want to take them.
I agree that Leslie is the best suited for helping (and that she’s long overdue a place in the spotlight) but I think that Joyce is much more likely to ask help from an acquaintance closer to her, aka Ethan.
He’s the only “””openly””” queer person she really knows and would be comfortable talking with about it (she doesn’t know about the Billie-Ruth ship yet). Ethan being called for help could also what finally makes him realize how bad his current deal with Joyce is, and decide to affirm himself.
THEN they can search for associations working to help persecuted gay young persons or go to Leslie. That way we got Character growth for both Joyce and Ethan and psychological and practical support for Becky …. poor Girl will have to go through very rough times.
Agreed that Leslie would be best, but I’d tie Billie with Ethan on “people Joyce is likely to ask”, because she knows/thinks that Billie has already overcome a gay temptation/situation AND is awesomely helpful and knowledgeable about stuff.
Actually, I’m kinda-sorta rooting for her to ask Billie. This seems like the sort of shit-has-hit-the-fan situation that Alpha bongo Cheerleader Billie has solved once or twice in high school.
I one hundred percent agree with you about Billie being helpful and Joyce probably calling her to the rescue.
However, please Joyce do NOT call Billie because you think she “used to feel gay and have been through this phase, so she can help de-gaying Becky and everything will be back to normal” . That would bad, like really bad (fortunately Billie wouldn’t agree to assist in that).
Ugh. Becky’s dad isn’t a butthole, that’s not strong enough a word. He is a cockmangler. Yet, fun fact, he COULD be both. …I hate that he isn’t real and I can’t punch him.
From what I’ve seen so far, I can’t really say any of the parents we’ve met would be a safe haven for Becky to find even temporary shelter.
Right now I’m going to jump on the ‘have her stay with Leslie’ bandwagon. Becky needs someplace safe to get her thoughts together about what to do next.
Ehhh, that’s a bit of an exaggeration. Dorothy and Sierra have great parents, and Amber’s mom, Danny’s parents, and Dina’s parents seem fine from what I remember. But I agree, Leslie would be a great parental or sisterly figure for Becky.
short-term option that may or may not get me yelled at: LGBTQ friendly religious chaplaincy. I know on some campuses most chaplaincies are housed in converted residential houses and will provide limited rooming to visitors/students who help run it or rent a room or two at a discounted rate; given the obvious emergency circumstances I suppose short-term housing and facilities use could be arranged that would be better than “crash on the dorm floor and hope for the best” and she’d be close to her best friend and newfound support network at least until her life’s stabilized a tiny bit and Leslie’s had a chance to meet her and help her sort things out a bit.
Ooh, yeah, if Joyce is set on going for a dad, Reno Snow is great. I’m not sure that Joyce has met him, but from a reader perspective, he’s easily the best dad in this comic.
Mike’s dad is pretty great. Call up Mike’s dad! He can adopt her and it’ll be a win-win situation; Becky gets a dad whose not a butthole and the Warners get a child who’s psychologically capable of responding positively to their affection.
Okay this is bad. But this is also great! Because Joyce is going to totally see how horrible it is to try and “fix” gay people. That they can’t be “fixed” because there isn’t anything wrong. At the least, she’ll realize how harmful it is. And she’ll start thinking about Ethan, and how maybe he needs to be his own person.
Also Kaitlin nooooo whyyyyyyy…? I mean I know why, but still. And man her dad is horrible.
No, I think that’s going to be part of the conclusion as well. Especially since Joyce was praying for a sign in regards to Ethan right before Becky showed up. This is a fucking sign.
I feel like all of that fixing stuff was sort of forgotten about after Amber’s outburst in the cafeteria. I could be wrong, but I just see her less as a fixer and more of a beard that’s trying to find that compassion she wants so dearly.
y’know, Becky secretly sleeping in Ethan’s bed would kind of be the perfect thing to feed his need for secrecy, Becky’s need for shelter, and Joyce’s need to.. ahm… well, to help her friend.
And if she doesn’t tell Becky that she loves her soon, Ima reach in there and smack her upside the head.
You waited one minute for cosmic forces? The doctor will be in eventually, though he does have questionable taste, what with that bow tie and fez nonsense. He may actually LIKE Linkin Park. *shudder* Let’s hope that’s not the case.
… You guys do realize what “fixing” sexuality entails, right? To quote Wikipedia’s page on conversion therapy:
“Psychologist Douglas Haldeman writes that conversion therapy comprises efforts by mental health professionals and pastoral care providers to convert lesbians and gay men to heterosexuality by techniques including aversive treatments, such as “the application of electric shock to the hands and/or genitals,” and “nausea-inducing drugs…administered simultaneously with the presentation of homoerotic stimuli,” masturbatory reconditioning, visualization, social skills training, psychoanalytic therapy, and spiritual interventions, such as “prayer and group support and pressure.””
This leaves out another thing historically used to try and fix gay people, corrective rape.
I don’t care what his intentions are, if he’s going to get ANYONE to do ANY of those things to his daughter, then he’s only a miniscule step up from Blaine at the very best.
Actually, AG would be a totally decent choice! Amber probably knows all about resources for supporting gay kids. And Joyce knows that she can contact AG through Dorothy. DO IT JOYCE
The potential for Mr. Toedad getting assaulted by Amazi-girl is minimized by the high likelihood that she wouldn’t be told where to find him. She would want to flay him, but she would be unable.
“Dum-dum-dum. Hmmm. Where did that worthless daughter of mine go, and why am I suddenly standing in a dark alley.”
“[deep voice] Hello Ross. We need to… talk.”
I changed my mind. Becky bugs me because I’ve got a friend going through something similar and I get a twisty feeling in my gut when I think about it. I guess I just didn’t want to admit that it was hurting me.
I was already interested in seeing where this was going, but now I’m doubly interested. Mostly because I want to see if Becky learns about what Joyce is doing with Ethan. She seems to be on the side of “I’m not broken, so there isn’t anything to fix” and I wonder how she’ll react to learning that her closest friend is doing just that with someone else.
Damn you Willis. Why do you have to make your drama so compelling?!
Seriously? Dr. Dick is who you’re going to hold up as the standard for non-terrible dads in the Dumbiverse? Not Sierra’s dad, who unhesitatingly stepped in front of a raging maniac to assist a complete stranger, or Dorothy’s dad, who brought Dorothy up to be Dorothy, but the guy who had Sarah threatening to twist his balls off within ten seconds of meeting her?
I like how Joyce wants to look to a man for advice. That reminds me of the fundies I’ve known who like keeping the menfolk the head of their households.
yay something I did assume correctly – it was Becky’s parents that pulled her, not the school. Someone posted on some other page’s comments that Anderson had pride groups and clubs for glbt so I figured there was probably a no sexy time clause for the students and that’s why they got in trouble. Screw you though, Kaitlin.
So now I’m wondering if Becky really is /in/ love with Joyce, or just loves her plus amp’d up to the nines because she’s her only hope now.
I had noticed that they only talked about Becky’s dad (even though Becky mentions Kaitlin’s parents, plural). So I’m taking it that Becky’s mom isn’t around – hopefully she got away from Toxic Macasswipe and is happy somewhere else, but in that case it’d be strange that Becky was still living with her dad. I call Dead Mom.
Or Ross may only be this way because he handled losing his wife very badly, and I’ll end up having to sympathise with him because Willis is that kind of monster.
It seems uncharacteristic of Willis to provide any kind of justification or excuse for abusive parenting.
His stories have always seemed pretty solid on the moral of “you don’t owe your abusers understanding or forgiveness” and playing Ross’s backstory for pathos (for Ross, not for Becky) would be off message. You might see reasons why Ross is the way he is but I doubt the story will encourage you to sympathize.
Close, but I still put Blaine on the top of the “Worst Dad” list, if only because we have verification that he was physically abusive to his wife and daughter.
Really? Ross’ expression (and Walkyverse appearances) suggest a much more authoritarian stance than, say, Joyce’s parents. I read him along the lines of “My daughter is wrong and corrupted and stands condemned of God, and I did not give her permission to do that! I will bring her back into line because she is under my authority,” – not “My daughter has made a mistake and is in a personal crisis, I will help her find her way back to the right path.” (There… may not be much real difference beyond tone between those, now I type them out. But at least the latter may admit the possibility of change.)
Right now I’m keeping Blaine on top as a proven serial abuser, but I’m not holding out much hope that Ross doesn’t believe in “spare the rod, spoil the child”. As it is, he looks to have Blaine’s control-freak authoritarianism with a side helping of self-righteousness thanks to being convinced that God is on his side.
C’mon, Joyce. I know this is a challenge that you were never taught in Sunday School, but you can do it. You have a best friend at school who is (1) an atheist, and is therefore not burdened with having to justify Becky’s “transgression”, and (2) super-genius smart. So who should you talk to next…? Starts with a “D”…
Oh god she would have no idea what was the matter. Or why it was a problem to begin with. Which would probably be refreshing, but not all that helpful.
I’m not sure we’ve seen anything about Dorothy’s past that suggests that she would have any experience to guide them on what to do next. I don’t know where this sort of family trauma would have come up in her studies.
And if not, I’m sure her parents will know something. If they can’t get Becky into college, they can at least house her until she is able to support herself.
I believe that someone looked up the other day that Dorothy volunteers at a shelter or soup kitchen, she probably knows various resources and/or how to find them, and probably knows a lot about scholarships and the like. And she would think to involve, say, *her* parents or Leslie…
Dean Winchester might be helpful against Aliens in the Walkyverse, but I dunno about here. He has family issue of his own to worry about.
I suppose Castiel could be helpful, for moral support if nothing else, since he is an angle and the girls are Christian (and even when he was in crazy-mode, he had no problem with homosexuals, much less normally)
Though the college might have issues with a very strange man in a trench coat claiming to be an angel of the lord trying to help two upset young girls 😛
Yeeeah, not necessarily a good idea.
I mean DOA’s “horrible moms team” doesn’t have a gold-star Jackass the level of Blaine, but Joyce’s and Ethan’s moms are be just as bad as Becky’s dad.
Seriously Joyce, do NOT fuck it up. Stay with Becky and LISTEN to her. Do your best not to say anything stupid and do not let her alone. Offer to shelter her for the night (Sarah will definetely agree once she’s heard the story). Tomorrow, round up an emergency team with Ethan for emotional support and Dorothy for gathering useful intel on LGBT support groups. You’ll have plenty of time to address the practical issues. Then, if you need there are a few adults you can contact : professionals, Dorothy’s parents, Leslie ….
But right now the lifesaving thing you can do is Stay at Becky’s side because You Love your Friend !
I don’t think he’ll have her attempt suicide. If he did, yes she would live, because he promised no deaths. But the thing is, people don’t just snap out of it when someone dies, especially suicide. It takes a very long time, years even. I think that Willis would know this, and choose not to take that path. Becky will definitely struggle with depression, no doubt about that. If he chose to take a dark path, self harm would be the extent.
Wouldn’t informing Becky’s parents without her consent be a violation of FERPA? Technically, as Becky is an adult, they’re not allowed to tell her parents anything.
(I know, I know – don’t spoil drama with inconvenient real world stuff…)
Do those tiny, crazy conservative, self-accrediting Christian colleges listen to FERPA? I mean, I guess they have to, but they might have had her sign some form waiving those rights at the beginning of the year.
S’funny, I’ve been idly wondering through this arc (inconvenient reality incursion alert) what the legal position would be if Willis showed a named, real-world college kicking a student out for being gay, and they took exception. IANAL, obviously.
IU’s also real. Beck and Clark halls are real. Heck, I think the comic book store Danny and Ethan visited is real. Willis is doing his best to ground the story in a real location.
Yeah, it’s where Willis does signings in Bloomington. The comic shop clerk Amber shoved when she and Danny were there is a real guy who actually works there, too. He left some comments on those strips.
I found the AAA parking lot across from the McDonald’s where Amber beat the shit out of Blaine on Google Maps, too. It’s like a mile and a half from the library she jumped off.
FERPA says that if a student break a rule, and it “allows schools to disclose those records, without consent, to the following parties or under the following conditions.” Becky’s parents would fall into “appropriate parties in connection with financial aid to a student” because dorms cost money, and it’s in their digression whether Becky is moved to a different dorm etc. Also, I think because it is against Anderson University’s policy to have sex in the dorm rooms, it counts as a school judicial issue, which FERPA again grants the right of parties deemed “appropriate” to know about.
1) Good job Joyce for listening to your friend and wanting to help her in a non-jerkwad way. And good job for apparently realizing that your own dad probably isn’t the best person to call either.
2) I nominate Sierra’s dad, he of the “peaceful interference,” for dad-to-call right now. Either him or Dorothy’s father.
I think her conversation with Amazigirl kind of points out that she’s not so much as trying to fix him as trying to be with someone she feels safe with.
But yeah, I think this’ll give her a pause about her saying that to him from now on.
3790 Ktears to the Seymour? I thought Seymours were an even, round number of Ktears but not a decimal function, something like 4096 Ktears = 1 Seymour.
To Joyce’s credit, it has not once even occurred to her to shame, blame, or scold Becky, or say or imply that she’s broken and needs fixing, or do anything else on the list of bad things people do when someone comes out to them. She’s been nothing but 100% loyal and supportive, and that’s pretty cool.
What? No, I’m not crying, I just finished cooking onions. For my tomato sauce. That I’m putting on my spaghetti. Fir dinner and stuff. Honestly.
Yet. It has not occurred to her yet. Or maybe it has occurred to her, but she is stalling a bit before she implores Becky to “come back to Christ”.
Remember, even if Joyce manages to get herself around to “love the sinner; hate the sin”, this is still reeeeeeeealy awkward for her, and while trying to balance her affection for her friend and her religious beliefs, she may put a foot down wrong and have this all blow up in her face (again) yet.
I’m pretty sure she’s just socially aware enough to tell it’d be hurtful if she took the conversation in that direction right now.
Later once she gets a moment to herself she’ll probably get started on considering the ramifications of all this in regards to her beliefs, her relationship with Ethan, and so forth.
I think it’s likely to be awkward for nearly anyone to have a lifelong friend, same- or opposite-sex, confess to romantic feelings (and then insist that you must feel the same way). Many of us might put a foot wrong in that situation.
Actually Joyce already kind of came around to “love the sinner; hate the sin” before when she stood up for Dorothy in front of her family. Call me an optimist, but I think Joyce is just a good person, and in particular, she trusts her own experience that tells her her friends are good over her religious beliefs that tell her they’re bad. (I’m sure there’s a philosophy term for this, and I’m equally sure I don’t know it.) But here, I think she’s even going farther than just “love the sinner; hate the sin” — she hasn’t done or said *anything* to even imply or hint that Becky has done something sinful. I don’t think the sinfullness has even bubbled up into her consciousness yet. Sure, she’ll think about it eventually, but she doesn’t seem to have the capacity for the automatic, *reflexive* hatred that is all too common in people. Thus my contention that she is a good person and also “pretty cool”.
she trusts her own experience that tells her her friends are good over her religious beliefs that tell her they’re bad.
Or her religion is an anchor to her rather than a hammer.
For some people there is a difference to relishing brownies and force-feeding someone who does not like them until they throw up and say they are great.
For others, there isn’t. Some think that if they are not able to convince themselves, it may help them to convince others.
Hey, it’s actually more or less how I acquired college math: by explaining it to others who were slower in the uptake. I probably improved my own scores more than theirs since I’d have been too lazy to work on it just for my own sake. I mean I was good, right? Good buys you nothing without practice.
If you are firmly rooted in your religion, you tend to trust your heart rather than the books. This is what Joyce is apparently going by currently.
When she does not know how to arrive at a solution this way, she might still turn to the book and prayer and whatnot. But not likely the forcefeeding bit.
Carla has a room all to herself for reasons, and I’m pretty sure Joyce knows that.
I hope this leads into them roping Carla into giving Becky a place to crash for a little bit. It’d keep Becky around and mean more screen time for Carla. Two birds with one stone.
Yeah, I think that was one of Joyce’s comical “She doesn’t know things” moments at some point.
Don’t think anybody knows about Carla yet though. Even within her friend circle she’s alluded to it being all “There’s a reason I’m so tall” and they haven’t been interested enough to respond “Why Carla, whatever are you referring to?”
I don’t blame Joyce for being clueless here. Most people her age don’t know how to face real life crises. When I got turned out onto the street without a clue where to even sleep, my friends didn’t know what to say. They couldn’t exactly take me in and they had no idea where to even start, and neither did I.
No seriously. “homeless gay bloomington indiana help” brings up SafeHorizon.org as the first result, complete with a toll-free help-line. There’s also the Indiana Youth Group in Indianapolis, which is just 50 miles away–a short bus ride.
It also brings up the info that there are no gay bars in Bloomington, which is a good sign that it is a place to exit as soon as possible. For a college town of over 80k people, that’s ludicrous.
But yeah. When life has you stumped, you can now google a few possible answers instead of stewing because you have no clue.
I wouldn’t really know, I haven’t spent much time Outside of Indiana. But I don’t think A lack of gay bars means that Becky has to get out ASAP. It’s nice here.
In the Walkyverse, Billie’s housemates kicked her out, and she apparently spent the rest of the year crashing in Danny and Joe’s room. Though I think it was Danny who had to sleep on the floor.
Yes Becky keeps on appearing while leaving a vague impression that she maybe crashing in Joyce’s room, all while striving off sexual tension from leaving with Joyce.
The last time Willis included a cameo (that I actually noticed), it included someone having a great time with their dead father. If that’s the line Willis is running with cameos, I’d rather not have Fred MacIntire show up because it would probably be heartbreaking.
ok. list of people who will eventualy become a legion duumb: ross aded. With blaine, ryan, mary and the literal embodyment of ruth’s depression we are comig close to a super hero battle with every cast member creating a super hero persona, in a finaly of full awesomeness… kinda trailed of… the point is ross is an awful individual
Maybe Invisible Sky Dad can wave His hands and make it all better? Nah, I’m actually impressed with how Joyce doesn’t immediately worry about what God will think, what they have done to anger him or how they’re going to gain his forgiveness.
Man, I’m tearing up from this storyline, regardless of the fact that I’m in a public place, reading this on my phone.
Becky could room with Carla, provided if they can rally the friends (especially Sal) together and get Becky a place to crash for the time being. And if they can bring in Leslie and get more help from the school PFLAG section, so much the better.
Sigh, I’m really hoping Becky pulls though all this. It looks as though, for all the crap she’s going through, she’s determined to remain who she knows she is. Joyce, you owe that girl a hug!
Again, that’s just a google search away. “university lgbt bloomington indiana” brings up the GLBT Student Support Services Office – Indiana University as the first search result. And what’s more Indiana University Bloomington was included in the Campus Pride list of the top 50 LGBT-friendly colleges and universities for 2014.
This is slightly complicated by the fact that Becky is not actually a IU student. Still, it might be a good place to start finding a support network, or maybe an attractive sugar mommy.
My guess is that, if Becky even dropped the slightest hint that she was going to apply to IU, they’d work up a support network. I’d bet that there are probably more than a few members (both students and faculty) that come from a very similar family situation.
… I didn’t realize until reading this strip and the comments and trying to articulate my feelings just how much trying to bottle my sexuality up actually probably impacted my first major depressive episode, but. Wow. Yeah. I was a mess of very-near-suicidal self-loathing before I came out. Those two things were in fact linked.
This is not my favorite revelation over my past cognitive state ever. 🙁
Yep, I’m renting a room to a transwoman who has been fighting depression for years, and it wasn’t until recently that she started transitioning that the depression started to get better. Her mind was literally at war with the rest of her body because their genders didn’t match. So this happens all the time.
At this point I’m hoping that Dorothy runs into them on her way back from the interview . I feel like she could handle this situation a bit better then Joyce.
I must note that Joyce is reacting oddly. Her reaction to Ethan being gay was that it was a sin and a temptation to be resisted and fixed, so she does have that mentality towards the issue, but she’s accepting it with Becky and having the normal person’s appalled reaction to the “fixing” thing. However in her mind fixing homosexuality is the right course of action so… either she’s making an exception for her best friend, or perhaps the events of DoA have shifted her worldview a bit. Who knows maybe she’s just still in shock and is about to flip out at any moment
It is easy to project one’s own convictions and preferences onto a character in a story, especially when you only have a single expression as a reaction to three panels of dialog. So you may be right, however the expression could just as easily be feeling lost at sea because her default course of action “call a dad” has been unceremoniously tossed overboard. To me, it looks like the expression of someone who wants to act, but has no idea what to do.
That’s what I’m reading. When I was that age, and something happened that I didn’t understand, I immediately went to my father. To a number of people, dad’s got the answers. He’s seen some weird stuff, and hopefully he’s seen your variety of weird stuff. So Joyce defaults to what’s natural when someone has a loving and supportive father. “Ask dad; he knows.” And when you don’t have that option, things feel off-kilter, and you just are thunderstruck into useless inaction.
I think that a lot of people are forgetting that most of the characters here are still teenagers, and Joyce and Becky (and probably Kaitlin) are from a subculture that demands that young women submit to the will of their fathers until they submit to the will of their husbands. Given that, Becky has already taken an incredible leap, and to her credit Joyce didn’t immediately go and call her dad. But they’re still kids, basically. (And before someone starts in with “But they’re eighteen!”, I’m talking about their emotional reality, not the legal threshold.)
I think it was probably easier for her to apply the default fundie thinking to Ethan, whom she didn’t know very well, than to her best friend of many years’ standing. She’s probably got some serious cognitive dissonance going on right now. “Gays are sinners … but Becky’s not a sinner … but Becky’s gay … and gays are sinners … but Becky’s not a sinner … but Becky’s gay …”
I think one of the major themes of DOA is going to end up being “how Joyce came to throw off her fundie conditioning and become a liberal Christian.”
Being a liberal Christian myself, I’d love to see this happen. Assuming that Joyce’s often-stated autobiographical nature applies to her future and not just her past, though, I figure she’s ultimately headed towards tolerant atheism.
(Incidentally validating her parents’ fears about Dorothy’s influence, of course, and perhaps causing them to double down on their tribal insularity, but oh well.)
She never left it it behind entirely it is true, she definitely was not one of the problematic religious folk though, so hopefully she can reach that point here too
The conversation provides enough context for her to tell Becky doesn’t want to be fixed, and as a friend Joyce wants what Becky wants.
That aside, I don’t think she’s ever gone so far as saying that gay people should be subjected to any sort of treatment against their will, so it’s not necessarily even inconsistent. Ethan was pretty receptive to the idea of being fixed.
Not that the two fixings were identical to begin with. Joyce so far hasn’t attempted to “discipline” the gay out of Ethan, whatever that would entail. Quite likely that would be a step too far in her eyes.
Joyce has her own reasons for wanting to keep Ethan around, remember? Ethan’s also encouraging her behaviour for his own reasons. And Joyce knows trying to de-gay Ethan is something that would be considered wrong by her friends and is actively hiding that fact from everyone but Sarah, who knows but doesn’t care due to a disinterest in drama.
Joyce has always been pretty reasonable about homosexuality. she reluctantly agrees it’s considered a sin but also acknowledges that it’s no worse than any other minor sin.
Joyce’s attitude has been less “Ethan is broken and I will fix him” and more “Ethan experiences sinful temptations (just like I do) and I will support him as he struggles against them”. I might be remembering wrong but I don’t think she’s said anything that implies she thinks Ethan is in any way more sinful, broken, or in need of fixing than any flawed heterosexual person.
I realize this is splitting hairs and it’s hardly more conscionable than really trying to “fix” him. Joyce needs to better herself and stop thinking of homosexuality as a sin. But people have been really outrageously exaggerating Joyce’s attitudes this arc. I think it’s an important distinction.
Also adding to this that she doesn’t seem to really understand what homosexuality is (see: her extremely sad attempts to be attractive to Ethan). She knows Ethan is “gay” but other than Ethan giving a little extra attention to Jocelyne she hasn’t seen it. She hasn’t seen Ethan with a boy he likes or heard him talk about what it means to be gay, other than that it makes his life hard. I think seeing Becky’s actual gay attraction, and how it is exactly the same as a straight crush but directed at a same-sex person and plus godawful societal baggage, will shape her up a lot.
Ugh, okay, last comment (sorry!): I feel the need to clarify…
I think that in Joyce’s conceptualization of homosexuality, Ethan is trying not to sin but does not to be fixed. I think if you applied her actions (trying to make Ethan attracted to her, etc) to what homosexuality actually is, she is effectively trying to change his orientation, which, yes, is “fixing” him. I think that Joyce would never think of it as “fixing” him because when she understands what homosexuality actually is, especially under the circumstances of seeing how Becky’s dad is betraying her and destroying her life, she won’t be able to bring herself to try to make him straight.
Like, I really don’t want to make excuses for what Joyce is doing with Ethan, but some of the comments about Joyce in this arc have been really off base. She was never going to scream at Becky.
I happen to agree with you on your point here. Ethan was showing that he WANTED to be “fixed”, so Joyce is helping. Becky is saying she DOESN’T, so Joyce will probably try to find another solution. Furthermore, Joyce would probably never imagine hurting either one of them, so would probably limit her tactics to trying to make them feel good with a member of the opposite sex.
While life endures we’ll love, and afterwards, if what they say is true, I’ll be refused a heaven crammed with popes; policemen; fundamentalists, and burn instead, quite happily, with Sappho, Michaelangelo, and you, my love.
Becky’s wearing the same things in today’s flashbacks as she was throughout the storyline. I wonder if that means it all occurs on the same day, or if she’s actually been homeless and unable to change for a while…
A lot of the kids involved end up living on the streets. A lot end up doing sex work to survive.
There are some extremely underfunded support systems in place to help them, in some cities. Never enough. They often face discrimination and harassment from other youth.
And yes, sorry Joyce, but there usually isn’t someone’s dad, or a teacher like Leslie, or anyone else to bail them out.
Now, Willis isn’t in the business of showing us unpleasant stuff like that, so I’m sure things will work out better for Becky. But that’s the reality for most kids in her position.
Remember, kids! You will know they are Christian by their love!
This reminds me of the time in high school when I told a friend I’m gay and she told my mom because “she had a right to know” and “maybe she could do something about it.”
She also told her own mom, who then told me she knew a gay guy who died of AIDS and that was gonna happen to me if I kept on this “path.”
Grown ups who are still dependent on their parents in a lot of ways. Not like you turn eighteen and the mayor drops by to hand you the key to your new apartment and a job with a livable wage.
Do watch the show, and am absolutely positive that Bob Belcher is 1000 times the dad this guy is. 🙂 (The Belchers are actually on my mental list of ‘most genuinely loving TV families’.)
Wow, way to throw your roomie under the bus Kaitlin. I’m sure later on in life, you won’t think back and go “Wow… what an incredibly awful thing to do that was…”
Well, depending on how fundie she ends up being, and where she lies on the Kinsey scale, she might feel very regretful, or she might feel very angry at that horrible sinner for leading her into temptation that way.
I have mixed feelings about Kaitlin. She did take the coward’s way out; but really, consider her situation. Her parents might be even worse than Becky’s father. She might be a minor, in which case they could ship her off to a conversion camp any time they wanted to. I have a hard time condemning someone for cowardice when the alternatives are that bad; and it seems likely that honesty on her part would not have reduced Becky’s troubles one bit, aside from a little emotional support.
yeah, I’m sure that parental arm on Kaitlin’s shoulder has NOTHING to do with it… Seriously, it seems kind of logical that her parents told her to say that stuff or else. Kaitlin did a shitty thing to Becky yeah but she was protecting herself and trying to survive.
I remember reading Jeanette Winterson’s Oranges are not the Only Fruit in college: it’s autobiographical, and both of the author’s first lesbian crushes end similarly to Becky’s. Social pressure is a powerful thing.
I mentioned this in a previous comments thread, but think of Winston Smith in Room 101 in Nineteen Eighty-Four. (And Julia later admitted that she’d done the same.)
It made me think of Valerie and Evey in V for Vendetta (the book, not that POS movie that I will never watch). And what Valerie wrote about the choice Ruth made, and its consequences.
Well, there’s dealing with a totalitarian state, and then there’s dealing with a conservative university and possibly-totalitarian parents. You can escape the latter pair, eventually. It may be worthwhile to compromise with them, for a time, if the need is great enough. I don’t feel qualified to judge her.
I thought of V for Vendetta as well, and it’s appropriate both in terms of it in no small way being Moore’s reaction to Orwell’s book, not to mention certain political changes taking place in Britain at the time (the early eighties, at least at the beginning of the book). One of the disheartening things was that, when Moore finished the series in the late eighties, and wrote an afterword to the collection, he said that he no longer thought that it would take a nuclear war to send Britain into fascism. (One specific factor that he cited was Section 28; Moore and other comics creators did an anthology in protest. I quoted the end of Moore’s contribution, “The Mirror of Love”, above.)
As for Kaitlin, yeah, I can’t really judge her either. To use the Christian example, even Peter denied knowing Jesus three times before the dawn of Good Friday.
Didn’t really finish my thought in my first sentence above; I meant both in terms of V4V being a reaction to Orwell’s book, but also in terms of what you said about Valerie and Ruth, and Valerie’s letter, and its consequences, and not just for Evey.
Like Robin said, their Relationship is very different from Becky’s Situation (and still very wrong -.-)
Becky is a Lesbian who accepts it but has others trying to force her to change.
Ethan is a Homosexual who doesn’t want to be one, so he actually reacts well to Joyce attempts at “fixing” him with their relationship no matter how misguided it is.
I remember he did mention he had dreams about having a Normal Husband/Wife/Kids Family … and being Gay kinda threw a wrench in that.
Though considering the context when Joyce said she feels “Save” with him I think after the event at the Party she actually deep down knows that she feels save with him because since he’s gay he won’t touch her (if it wasn’t even outright stated, I’m not sure).
So yeah Becky’s Situation is a case of typical Bigotry while the Ethan/Joyce Situation is a very special kind of screwed up <.<
Another big difference is power. Ethan has no reason to put up with Joyce if he doesn’t want to (and given how much he flirts around I doubt he plans for it to be a long term solution anyway). To walk away from your family is much harder
I’m reminded of the song from Tangled (Anyone remember that movie? I liked it) titled “Mother Knows Best” but then scold myself because of the different situations.
Whose situation is worse? YYOU DeCIADE
Not much good. He would (possibly after talking with his wife) call Becky’s father to deal with it because it’s best for Joyce not to be exposed to this kind of thing.
No, that would require different parents to deal with sensibly.
Universities in the USA can inform parents of the students about their issues/grades etc.? That’s pretty f%^&d up system in my opinion.
Im pretty sure that if you are an adult person (18 y.o and above) all between you and university is confidential and up to you wether you share this information with anyone or not. At least that’s how it works in my country. If Uni gave out information about me to anyone without my consents, regardless of this person relation to me, it would form a solid ground for a lawsuit.
Golli, When I was in college 30 years ago, my private colleges sent everything to the parents. My son goes to public university and he had to sign waivers if he wanted his parents to see his grades or have any access to his medical while he was at school (that is only if he is 18 or over. If the students are 17 or younger, their parents are still their guardians and have full access.)
Yeah, exactly what I thought. It’s kinda disgusting how the US treats these people as if they were kids. They are adults. If you can trust them to drive a car (and with that risk the lives of thousands of people on the road), and to send them away to live alone in some place they’ve never seen before, then you can trust them to do their own shit and to fucking drink a beer.
Goddamn that fucking country.
If they label homosexuality as indecency I think they can get away with reporting “disciplinary problems”… because that’s exactly the world we want to live in.
To me that just sounds terrifying. I am glad I went to a community college and lived with my grandparents. I was not remotely ready to live on my own till my mid-20s at least.
At least it wasn’t demon of homosexuality exorcism… some of the things they say and do to people is just…. you just do do those things to your fellow man. It ain’t right and I don’t care what that book of theirs says. Actually I do care, because above all else it says to love thy neighbor as thyself. And what I see them do all too frequently is far from love.
i find it sorta fucked up that joyce is becky’s childhood friend and she still thought of going to her dad about this situation. i mean, becky’s wording make it sound like he’s a fair bit of an abuser, and joyce may be naive but she’s not unperceptive. in book one she reasoned that the ryan situation could get her stuck back in la porte if her dad found out (which would have been a reasonable reaction of joyce dad’s, don’t get me wrong), and she should know how dramatic her church could be on the gay thing considering her own initial rejection of it, she could have figured out backy dad could have gone crusader on his own daughter over it. but hey, punchline
You must remember: As far as Joyce knows, homosexuality is something that can and should be fixed (remember Ethan?). There’s no reason Joyce wouldn’t have suggested calling Becky’s dad.
Well, we’ve seen how good Becky can be at not talking about things. I’d say it’s quite plausible that Joyce really doesn’t know what her home situation is like. Joyce’s family would still support her in a crisis, after all, even though she recently defied them over something they saw as sinful.
Plus, I suspect that Joyce is mentally slipping back into the context in which she knows Becky, at least a bit. That is, thinking in terms of family and homegroups rather than her new college friends.
Two very true things. It’s kinda disturbing how easy Becky lied through the whole day while a) on the run, b) building up to kiss Joyce and c) generally having the worst situation ever. That kind of lying doesn’t just happen. It takes practice. Says something ugly about her home life right there.
that makes a lot of sense, both of you. you’re right. also, just noticed i hadn’t considered how strong she has to be to have gone through this whole day without breaking. becky is TOUGH!
Sometimes you don’t know how horrible someone is until it’s too late. There are thousands of non-heterosexual children who thought they were outing themselves to good loving parents only to end up abused or thrown out for it.
Becky… still greatest character? Yes. We love Becky. Becky is the friend we all wish we had. It’s okay if Becky has a crush on us, and we can’t reciprocate. We will love Becky.
No kidding. I loved her because she was engaging and friendly before. Now I just wanna hug her until she believes people love her because she’s Becky and not because she meets their expectations. And even if you can’t have romance with the person you want, you can still be loved by them.
I wish I could do that, and I’m 38. Now… I’m going to sound like king a-hole, but I’m going to defend Becky’s father for just a moment. His reaction was born of ignorance, and yes, bigotry. but it’s because the s/n is all f’ed up. When your religious teachings exclude the biological causes of sexual attraction, you tend to believe that it’s a ‘problem’ and thus something that can be ‘fixed.’ He made an error. A horrible, awful error, but he’s not a moustache-twirling villain like Amber’s gene donor. We don’t really have any indication that he’s abusive yet. Discipline is not always screaming, striking, or destroying someone. Sometimes it is the withdrawal of privileges. We really know almost nothing about him, other than his cartoonish behavior over in that other comic and the statement that he wanted to discipline or fix Becky. He may think he’s acting in Becky’s best interests based on his religious indoctrination. Hopefully, he can come around. I doubt he will, but it’s possible he will want to reconcile with his daughter, and will make an effort to understand her.
From a modern viewpoint, it can be viewed that way. But insular communities such as fundamentalists don’t view it that way. Prayer and their god are the answers to any problem. Bad things come because there’s sin on earth, and you have not been ‘washed in the blood of the lamb.’ Spending time on your knees and begging your god to forgive you is supposed to fix all that’s broken. I suspect he genuinely loves his daughter, and that he doesn’t want to harm her. Thus his reaction would be understandable inside his community and completely incomprehensible outside. Having spent some time in that sort of community, I have a smidge of insight into the mindset. He wants her to go to heaven. If she doesn’t, he failed her and obviously didn’t love her enough. The holy book even tells him so.
To be fair, a lot of people rely on there parents even in there early adulthood, and it’s not uncommon to have your parents bail you out of a mess, such as being in debt or breaking a law of some kind.
Because while you may not live with them, in the back of most peoples minds, even if they know better, see there parents as being able to do anything, and while asking for help might wound your pride, you know you can count on them.
Unless they are Ross or Blaine or basically any of the terrible parents in dumbing of age.
One of my sister’s friends from high school grew up in a Mormon household, realized he was gay, and proceeded to do everything to hide it from his parents. He knew if they found out, he’d be disowned.
Because your religion is more important than loving/protecting your children. Becky…is in that situation. Because no matter what, she has no good choices available to her right now.
(Follow-up, my sister’s friend is doing fine, last I heard–living in San Francisco with a long-term partner and financially stable)
The “somebody else’s dad” they should call is Walky’s mum, who knows the Dean & probably can get Becky enlisted at IU. It’s only four weeks after the start of the first semester, after all.
LGBT scholarships are a thing, but only at certain schools. And usually transfer students don’t get merit money to state schools unless they have transfer specific scholarships
Nooo, the blue panels are not friendly and happy and full of Becky-kissies any longer. They are full of Becky-tears and Ross who is a jerkhole. GET OUT OF THE BLUE PANELS, ROSS.
Adorable Joyce is still edging closer. She’s almost on hugging distance now.
I repeat. If only there was a future president and a superhero with daddy issues and a gay best friend on the grounds tonight. HRM. I SAID, IF ONLY THERE WAS A FUTURE PRESIDENT AND SUPERHERO WHO CAN COME AND HELP RIGHT NOW PLEASE!!!
You know, presumably, by the time most people are in college, they are legal adults. Could this be not so much a case of running away as spontaneously moving out? Without packing? Or telling anyone?
He wanted to help fix her up with Joyce and called her parents, but Becky thought it was embarrassing and went to see Joyce on her own and borrowed her phone to see if the parents had called already. That’s what this whole drama is about, right?
Oh, hey, it’s… that guy. Who nobody wanted to see again.
apparently it’s “Ross”?
as in “Oh… he’s got a ROSS…”
Cubedad is a dick
No, he’s . . . he’s a.. butt-hole.
We gotta find a new word for these sorta people; buttholes just ain’t cuttin’ it anymore.
What’s, like, deeper and more terrible than buttholes? Sphincters? Ovipositors, maybe?
Santorum generators?
“Cloaca” has a nice hard, cutting, evil sound to it.
A cloaca is like a butthole and a dickhead all in one! Works for me!
Not without a duck penis. Nature’s way of saying “you’re screwed anyway”.
But turtles have cloacas : ( They can use them as a backup breathing method when submerged! Turtles are awesome.
Just makes me think of birds and also of ZeFrank’s hilarious True Facts series.
And an episode of The Drinky Crow Show.
And Jeph Jacque’s Shouting Bird.
He is all about the cloaca.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_y4DbZivHCY
Sea pigs and the cloaca
And a certain Salarian doctor.
It makes me think of Isabella Rossellini gracefully prancing around in a silly animal costume and describing nature’s most horrifying reproductive organs.
Perfect!
i wouldn’t want to call him “Cloaca”, because it would dishonor the memory of poor Cloaca Mahoney, who was the PC in an LP of Hatoful Boyfriend I read.
(If you’re not familiar with Hatoful Boyfriend, I recommend looking this up. It is sheer insanity in pigeon-based dating sim form. And I mean to an even greater degree than just the phrase “pigeon-based dating sim” would imply.)
My young kids and I call them JERKS. It’s about the worst thing we can label someone as.
What a jerk.
Asshat.
I’m tempted to start calling people like that tumors. Seems a good illustration, they’re horrible to have. They drain you, and you have to go through a special brand of living hell to get rid of them. The real sneaky ones…well…sometimes it takes you a while to realize they’re there at all, but when you do, it’s a horrible thing to find.
How about an anal fistula? That would be like a…a butthole within a butthole.
Butthole-ception! xD
My general go to formula for an insult is adjective+animal+food; for example: ‘stupid pig bagel’. For this kind of sleazeball though, I’m just gonna ramp it all the way up to ‘steaming pile of bloody, shit-covered, horse smegma’, which is just about the worst thing I can think of calling anyone
I generally use “asshat” as my all-purpose “this guy shouldn’t be breathing my air” epithet.
I’m known for using “dipshit” in circumstances as these. But I’d also be tempted to use “fuckwad” for a guy like this one.
I got one “Shit faced cock-master” How’s that?
And then there’s asstard.
We need a new word.
Intolerasses?
Despicasses?
I’m not sure why I always seem to end the new word with “asses”, it just seems to fit somehow.
“A void surrounded by a sphincter muscle”
I find myself using “douche-toboggan” more and more lately. Tis the season.
He’s a dick wrapped in a butthole
How bout dickbowl? Like dick+butthole-“utth”
Wait, “again”? Was Ross in the Walkyverse?
According to tags, no…
Just in the subscription J&W strips. He was the worst.
Seriously: The Worst. Willis was kind enough to share the sequence with the Patreon people. Knowing only the bare minimum about J&W or about the Walkyverse in general, still, my blood was boiling. Fucking Ross.
I have also put some of him on Tumblr: http://itswalky.tumblr.com/post/105417234107/ross-macintyre-finally-named-shows-up-today-for
yeah you did! *high five because i am a minor with no money to do paetron*
I can’t find it on Patreon. Is it only for people paying 5 or more?
Becky looks cute with long hair. Which is not to say she doesn’t… okay, let’s just go with “Becky looks cute.”
Also, Ross is a sad, square little man, and I pity him.
As a “sad, square little man” who doesn’t share Ross’ opinions, I am sad that Willis has selected this body shape to give to an asshole. I know some shape had to be selected, but I hope everyone hating Ross recognises that hate comes in all body shapes and not to attribute Ross’ hate to the fact that he is a “sad, square little man.”
Of course. (That was at least half a Toy Story joke, anyway.)
Also also: ‘300 question survey”, and if you answer any of them differently, you’re a heretic, which is worse than a godless sinner/ignorant heathen because you’re doing it wrong.
Ross isn’t very square. He’s more of a series of triangles: http://dumbingofage.tumblr.com/post/105470029617/realized-i-had-never-drawn-ross-macintyre-below
If you look like that at his age, I’d say you’re doing pretty well.
Ohhh… so he thins down considerably below the chest then. I take it the camo pants confirm that he’s ex-military, as some have suggested?
(Oh God he’s one of those dominionist gun nuts, isn’t he)
(I can’t help but think of American Beauty)
He’s ex-Kmart clearance section.
Oh hey camo pants. Of course.
Was he ever actually in the military, or is he one of Those guys?
(I guess the question got answered before I finished posting it.)
Hello second least favorite character in the whole comic.
….I think I’m going to be sick. I thought Blaine was bad.
Well that guy seems like a kind, rational, understanding man who excepts people’s beliefs even when they contradict his-ppffftt NO! He’s a complete tool! The strips were pretty funny though.
I love that you said “excepts” instead of “accepts”. Much more accurate.
Exactly so. A perfectly correct little error.
Christ, what an asshole.
That second strip at least reminds me of this amusing flowchart of “Things that lead to mixed dancing”. Also the joke that premarital sex is forbidden because it could lead to mixed dancing.
http://www.frumsatire.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/1798703_474545735978560_252431764_n.jpg
Worse than Blaine?? WOW.
I dunno if anyone can be worse then Blaine… Controlling, both physically and mentally abusive, and willing to kidnap acquaintances in an effort to control you? Blaine is about as awful as you can get… Ross can only hope to tie.
He looks like the dad from the “Son, I am disappoint” [sic] meme, only with a ‘stache.
Naw. “Son, I am disappoint” guy is a burly mofo. This guy’s just chubby as hell.
That is what I thought, too. As soon as I saw him I said aloud to myself “Becky, I am disappoint”.
Nope, sorry–still can’t believe that asshat spawned Becky.
Blaine… *almost* believable [but horrible]. “Becky’s dad” looks like he actually made the “babies come from the store” myth a reality, ’cause what is even going on there, how does Becky have a mom with that
adoption is a thing
adoption kinda implies generosity and kindness??
The preganancy was even harder on him than the wife.
That guy seems so unlikely to breed that it would require pregaMANCY.
Nah, I just wanted to say “pregamancy.”
“Pregmancy” sounds like a new and exciting school of magic.
well its either the school of magical pregnancies
or
the school of magical pragmatics.
That’d be ‘pragmancy’.
can we refer to mpreg fan fics as pregMANCY fics from now on?
Only if they’re magical.
He’s probably not the father.
And was never told otherwise.
I hope so. For her mother’s sake.
Yeah, I figure they probably had a red-headed mailman.
…Huh. Nowhere near as bad as we feared.
Still pretty friggin’ sucks, though…
I’m trying to be an optimist about it. IT’S HAAAAAAAARD.
That’s what she said!
Surprised that response took over 3 hours.
What were you fearing??
School kicked her out, parents disowned her completely, Kaitlin got to stay in school unfairly. At least she wasn’t kicked out, her parents didn’t disown (although they don’t accept her for who she is, which still sucks), and Kaitlin DID get to stay in school, but Becky wasn’t kicked out.
He said “Fix her”. Which usually implies some sort of… forced re-education.
Like “Conversion Therapy.”
And since she ran away to avoid it, he probably is disowning her now.
Assuming he isn’t coming to get her now. Probably with the Browns as backup.
Ugh this genuinely hurts with all the awful that could be in Becky’s future, poor sweetie.
…Well, my optimism is dead.
I’m going to hold onto hope that instead of a dad, Joyce thinks to call Leslie.
Welcome to Dumbing Of Age, where optimism exists mostly as a Red Shirt.
If he shows up, then I’m hoping for a cameo from Sarah’s bat.
That would be a step up. The worst parents force their children to stay, like this guy already tried to do.
To be honest, that sounds worse than disowning. I mean even in the short term that would be psychologically hellish; I don’t want to think about that sort of suppression’s long-term damage.
I… Yeah. There’s a reason why there’s such a high rate of suicides among the LGBT+ youth population.
L = lesbian
G = gay (and actually, isn’t this the same thing as lesbian?)
B = bisexual
T = transgender
+ = ????? — what’s left?
When I lived in the SF Bay Area, Queer was being used as a catch all term for people who didn’t fit the ‘accepted’ categories — my understanding is there’s at least one additional whole new orthogonal spectrum ranging from asexual to … Joe|Roz — with aromantic to romantic out there as well …
… as for gay = lesbian … remember how gay used to just mean something like carefree & happy? AFAIK gay is pretty much exclusively used for male homosexuals now …
Usually people put Q, it is suppose to mean Questioning but a lot of people take that to mean Queer and since it is a reclaimed word it is troublesome to some. I usually add AD to the end of it for Asexual and Demisexual.
Weirdly, my newspaper refuses to use LGBT except in quotes because it’s technically redundant, even though that’s the preferred nomenclature. We’re, uh, a bit old-fashioned.
+ is because some people/organizations add more to the acronym.
Q=questioning (I’ve also had people say it stands for queer.)
A=allied
If there’s a second A, it sometimes means asexual.
There are more, but I have to start asking/looking up the group when there’s more than that.
pansexuals, asexuals, intersex people, and questioning people for starters. and yeah lol lesbians are just gay girls so that’s a bit redundant, but when you just say gay the mental picture is that of two guys, so it’s like a necessary redundancy i guess? people tend to forget about lesbians as it is
in the ten minutes it took for me to type a comment three other people ninja’d it, amazing 😛
A is for asexual (also aromantic?), not for ally/allied. The LGBT+ community is not our community (as allies) because their struggles aren’t our struggles, no matter how good of an ally we are. We can be LGBT+ advocates (as in advocates for LGBT+ people), but then we don’t advocate for ourselves as allies.
I’ve gone from using LGBT+ to LGBTQIA+ (Lesbian, Gay, Bi, Trans, Queer, Intersex, Asexual, etc), and then to just using MOGAI (Marginalized Orientations, Gender Identities and Intersex). Much more inclusive without having to extend an initialism.
I’ve recently run across the use of GSD (Gender and Sexual Diversity) and that one seems like my preferred term. Much less unwieldy, if a bit less iconic.
Hopefully there isn’t anything historically problematic with it.
@ninja_jesus: How does “Marginalized Orientations, Gender Identities and Intersex” get abbreviated to MOGAI? Where does the A come from?
I’m not just asking because the lack of a W seems like a missed opportunity…
MOGAI and GSD I haven’t seen before. I did see a suggestion for SAGA – Sexuality And Gender Acceptance, though it is arguably a bit orthogonal.
And yeah, A is for asexual and aromantic, not ally
for a while i’ve been using gsm, same as gsd but ending in “minorities” instead -i’ve seen some people dislike this term cos they feel it could easily include like straight kinksters, but i trust people to be smarter than to group super persecuted trans folk along with unfairly shamed chubby chasers. also there’s quiltbag which i know of because of that t campbell comic, but personally i don’t like the sound of it in any context other than glossing over the community as a whole, and even then just for convenience ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I think my favourite is “QUILTBAG”, the acronym so self-aware it’s allowed to vote. Several of the letters stand for multiple things- good luck figuring them all out!
QUILTBAG = Questioning, Undecided, Intersex, Lesbian, Trans, Bi, Asexual or Gay
Historically, the “A” *did* stand for Ally, so it’s understandable some people still use it that way. It’s fallen out of favor for the reason Robin states, but some older people/organizations still use it that way.
MOGAI= Marginalized Orientation, Gender Alignment and Intersex.
I just used the best-known one for convenience, but yeah, MOGAI’s my preferred one.
(Alignment rather than identity because cis women would fall under identity and trans men wouldn’t, if I’m recalling correctly.)
You mean like the ones mentioned in this CRACKED article?
http://www.cracked.com/article_20843_6-shocking-realities-secret-troubled-teen-industry.html
Another interesting (if depressing) article about LGBT youths from conservative families: http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/features/the-forsaken-a-rising-number-of-homeless-gay-teens-are-being-cast-out-by-religious-families-20140903?page=4
Nothing Willis has ever done in any part of the Walkyverse has ever actually brought tears to my eyes… Congratulations -Sentinel-, you’ve done what Willis could not.
Holy shit, is this actually real? Are some people actually so paranoid that their kid is “at risk” that they’d expose them to these weird shady things?
‘fraid so, I just hope they don’t have that sort of shit in Australia as well.
It’s everywhere. EVERYWHERE. There is no place in this world that is free of it.
They do. Google “ex-gay therapy Australia.”
well…fuck… ಠ_ಠ
Yes.
Unfortunately, yes.
Nice Avatar, Mongoose. =D
Thanks, I wonder where I got it from? hmmmmm
Oh, if you are out to save your daughter’s immortal soul, you’ll not be above organizing a neighborhood gang rape for her and forcing yourself to watch. Exorcise the evil female spirit that has taken a hold of her.
I don’t think Willis is going there, but once some religious enclave is homogenuous and determined enough to go into self-amplifying mode, scary shit happens.
Isn’t that what happened to Leslie in the other continuity?
See, this is why you don’t trust enclaves. Too much power and incentive to hide evil stuff.
They are hiding the good stuff because it would be beyond you heathens’ comprehension.
Something like that.
Getting kicked out isn’t really much worse than damn reeducation camps. Those things are evil.
well dad did want to straight camp her so……. im now looking forward to her going to ruth for help and what needs to happen happening
(damn you willis if something like this doesn’t happen)
Becky crashes in the dorms with ruth helping hide her or she contacts a group that helps lgbt kids/young adults, she looks for/get a job probably something low paying, she finds someplace (maybe a multi-room mate situation) in which to live
There is a pizza place that doesn’t discriminate on gender issues, primarily because the owner has prosopagnosia. He also has megalomania. Becky could play off his issues. Yes, this will all have a happy ending.
*cries*
For everyone but Galasso. Because he’ll never figure out why Becky isn’t getting an heir on Conquest. Maybe the temperature isn’t right?
If Becky and Joyce go to Ruth, you know who else is going to get involved? “Head cheerleader — problem solver!”
What are you talking about?
Baaaaad stuff happens when parents try to fix their gay kids. Conversion therapy, corrective rape, troubled youth camps, just a whole bunch of heinous, heinous shit. Honestly, given how horribly bigoted her parents seem to be, I don’t blame Becky for running away, even a little bit.
Agreed. The whole conversion therapy thing disgusts me. But, Becky ran away, so that’s not happening. Again, this could have tuned out FAR worse for Becky. Parents still obviously care about her and what happens to her, and she not going through a process as terrible as so-called conversion.
Honestly, Im just trying to be optimistic about this whole thing.
Oh goddammit, Kaitlin did throw her under the bus. Understandable, but ugh. I suppose that clears up the lingering questions about the two.
Also, Ross Macasshole can go DIAF, kthxbye. I only the read the J&W! strips last night, at which point it became clear that Becky’s family weren’t going to be any help here.
Joyce – go talk to Dotty and/or Leslie, stat. And really listen to Becky, like she’s asking you to, and then re-evaluate your relationship with Ethan.
Huh, that was supposed to be a new comment, not a reply.
Anyway, the actual reply here was yes, you can really see how Becky’s dad cares for her in the way his reaction is all about “discipline” and “fixing” her as opposed to, say, acceptance or concern.
I mean, he DOES care. Just in the worst way possible, given the situation.
Better to have a deadbeat dad, than that.
Better a deadbeat dad than a “beat-dead” dad, that’s for sure.
He doesn’t care about Becky, he cares about his reputation among the religious bigot set.
Thank you. Too many people think the “I’m going to fix my gay kid” parents actually CARE about their child. They don’t care about their child, they care about themselves and their reputation within their like-minded community.
Precisely. He’s still an abusive dickwad. Just not physically abusive like Amber’s dad as far as we can tell.
He might not be physically abusive himself, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s willing to delegate.
Betty Anne, I’d disagree. Most of them, sure. But there are some that honestly and earnestly think that their atrocious attempts at ‘fixing’ the kid are an attempt to help them. Sure, they’re misguided and wrong and abusive. But they aren’t malicious, which, in a way, makes them MORE scary. I just think of Vorbis from Terry Pratchett’s Small Gods. He wasn’t evil in his motivations, but he managed to be one of the worst characters in all the Discworld books (even worse than Teatime or Lord Snapcase, and just as bad as Lily Weatherwax or the elves).
Maybe he can come to look for her and get into fistfights with Ruth? I could see that becoming a habit.
Also, is there a vigilante with daddy issues somewhere who can land a hand?
The fact that “Corrective Rape” is an actual term just makes me weep for humanity…
I think “Corrective Rape” might be an even more disgusting term than “Legitimate Rape”.
If you are going to weep for Humanity, bring buckets, cause we are fucked up, and not just in the way that continues the species.
Well not only is it a term, but that really is something men like Becky’s father often to do “fix” their gay daughters, as I know from first hand experience.
And some mothers, hoping it will work in reverse.
First hand experience? Shit, I’m sorry you had to deal with that, Hon. Have an internet hug from a complete stranger, if you want one.
If any organisation needs to be reamed by the hard-core feminists, it is these conversion therapy groups.
They have been, by legitimate psychologists, feminists, and a few state legislatures.
Oh come on. We are talking about a country here who thinks their leaders and the services under their command are to be applauded for making the CIA do a heroic and patriotic duty using “Enhanced Interrogation Techniques” (including rape, by the way) on suspects until they are dead or marred for life. Just to make sure that they indeed know nothing worthwhile or are not connected to terrorists other than having their neighbors killed by drones and having suspicious names and skin color.
So what’s wrong with corrective rape if it accomplishes the job? Like, reducing the number of people who could continue to live and function in some not-compatible-with-my-bible-reading relationship?
That’s literally what your ex vice president Cheney stated: he is fine with torture as long as it does the job (by the way: it doesn’t, but that does not really make a difference regarding its total immorality).
And “corrective rape” more likely than not does the job: making it impossible for someone to lead a reasonably happy non-standard-conforming life.
Don’t take me wrong: there are deeply religious people I have a lot of respect for. Most of them, however, use their religion to govern their own lives rather than ruin that of others. They use religion as a guide rather than as a weapon.
The version in the J&W stuff Willis linked to further up is almost strawman level in his singlemindedness.
I say almost because I know people just like him.
Poor Becky. Poor Joyce, she really is out of her depth here. Dang.
But Joyce knows she is and wants to get help. Pretty mature for her.
That’s true. Picking up the phone is a Very Good Idea. Now all she needs to know is, who is the proper person to ask for help? Maybe she’ll google it.
Joyce has been out of her depth from day one. That’s what makes her so great is that she hasn’t had a mental break down… yet
I’d argue that the whiteboard ding-dong banditry was a breakdown, albeit a small, mostly harmless one.
Who wouldn’t be?
Becky is the new Leslie…
Can Leslie adopt Becky? Please?
Yeah you took the words right out of my mouth
That would be awesome. Maybe she can adopt Ethan and Amber as well.
That sounds magnificent. Joyce comes to class, and she’s like, “Excuse me professor, remember how on the first day you said that Women’s Studies is really only for lesbians…?”
My thoughts exactly.
I was thinking Leslie would be a terrific ally! [possible spoiler??]
[[EVERYTHING is a possible spoiler tho]]
The future is not a straight line. It is filled with many crossroads. There must be a future that we can choose for ourselves.
You have to make sure you are in the right leg of the trousers of time.
If a stitch in time saves nine, how many were saved when that was sewn?
I dunno, but I bet Commander Vimes would make short work of Ross if he came after Becky. Lu-Tze of the History Monks would probably be willing to interfere too.
Vimes would only get Ross if there were bits left after Angua and Cheery (especially Cheery, I’d bet) got through.
Oh, wouldn’t it be fun if Angua and Carrot dealt with Ross while Cheery and Sally took Becky and Joyce out for a drink and a chat?
Oh man, I want to read a fic of Angua, Cheery, Becky and Joyce going out for drinks. Not slash, just drinks and chat.
Yay, discworld references.
No one seems to have gotten my Akira reference :c
Even if you’re in the wrong leg, the luggage will find you.
Maybe we can feed Ross and Blain to the Luggage
You know, I’ve wondered what would happen if the Luggage met the Langoliers, but never as hard as I have now. Any ideas?
Hopefully Joyce thinks of going to her…or Billie or Ethan or literally anyone that would want to help besides Becky’s dad
Oh man oh man, I swear if this is the next strip or something, I don’t have patreon access so this is just a guess. But, you know who Joyce would be quite reasonable to go and ask for help?
Her R.A.
That’s bordering on the best possible thing I can imagine her doing here, too!
Except Joyce, like practically everyone on her floor, is terrified of and/or hates Ruth. Billie may have softened her up, but Joyce doesn’t know that.
Fair enough, but she is still an appropriate nearby authority figure…
Aren’t the Walkyverse and Dumbiverse canonically adherent to the “many worlds” multiverse concept, where every possible variation of every event ever actually happens in parallel? So everything IS a spoiler, somewhere!
Guesses are not spoilers… spoilers are only based on actual knowledge of what happens next. So if you’re a Patreon patron and come here to alert the hoi polloi then that’s a spoiler. If you’re making a guess and get lucky, that’s just good luck – congratulations.
I hope Becky and Leslie do cross paths at some point. It’d be nice for at least one of the characters to get some good adult guidance.
Yeah, Becky and SP!Leslie definitely followed similar paths up to this point. We never actually saw Leslie interact with her parents as a child or young adult, though, and while we’re only alluding to it here, Becky is younger than any incarnation of Leslie ever seen, so we’re getting a much more immediate, up-close look at things which were only backstory in Leslie’s case.
And… er… there is no GUARANTEE Becky will keep following Leslie’s basic path and not end up going back home to her dad to be reindoctrinated after all. She’s got formidable spirit, but that is not always enough to overcome a lifetime of rigid, controlling behavior.
In any case, Leslie had the good fortune to make a go of it with her first personal OTP (eventually). It is exceedingly unlikely that Becky will do the same.
Toxic home environment as a motivation to run away. I think there’s a girl in Boston who can relate. Maybe you could share her number.
Oh yeah, the character from P&A that went to S*P and ended up rooming with the character from QoW. Randy is great about housing webcomic orphans… Did you read the Life with Rippy where Randy is the last living webcomic artist, and every comic was left to him to continue, and he’s plotting massive crossovers while minions sketch, ink, and color the scripts… I think he had all kinds of IV tubes because he didn’t have time to eat or sleep, so nutrition and stimulants were pumped into him constantly.
Yes, Helen. That was one of my favorites and seeing as how Joyce was working at Nerdotica, Becky can hang out with her whenever she wants.
I’m so glad I waited to vote in the Becky poll. +1 for Greatest.
dude looks like a toe
duuude. perfect. +1
I’d be mad too if my daughter was makin’ out with hot chicks and I looked like a toe. Nobody loves a toe.
Nobody loves a toe.
Other than people with a foot fetish.
Yeah, what JustCheetoDust says.
You’re sandalously out of step Yotome, its a shoe thing that there’s a potential sole mate out there for even the worst heels.
I think you nailed it.
Nice!
I do feel obligated toe mention that the only nailing I can even bring myself to think about with that guy would involve the 6″ steel kind and a hammer …
can we not threaten violence against people and/or characters we don’t like?
Dude, are you new to the DoA comments? Not likely. That said…
-grabs my torch and pitchfork- I’m next in line after tyersome!
its not like they’re real people, they’re just characters in a webcomic. No one is threatening actual violence against actual people here (i hope)
At the risk of being serious “… I can even bring myself to think about …” was intended to convey that thoughts of sadistic murder were as far as I was willing to go … but you’re right — I’ve really got to learn to not contribute to the idea that violence = solution …
Meh, he’d probably feel it a huge honour to be crucified as a martyr for fighting to retain his retrogressive beliefs…
and I will try….to fix you.
And then he took Becky to the vet.
Why can’t I favorite!?
NO! YOU WILL NOT RUIN THAT SONG! I CHOOSE TO… aw crap. It’s ruined.
There’s this Amber Girl I’ve seen around randomly, maybe her dad?
Sigh. In too late to make the obvious, yet awesome, joke first.
Mwahahahahaha!!!
And you’re the god of Lighting?
Of track lighting!
😀
! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8duX_eFqmE !
seconded ^_^
Aw, crap, missed this comment.
Some day I will make an original joke in these comments, some day…
I’ts not Blaine. Its Ross. Still a cut from the same cloth, more or less.
Ross is speeding right past the Browns, Walkertons, Siegals, and Wilcoxes for most shitty parent award, but still pulling up short of our reigning champion, Blaine.
All parties put together a good showing. *slow clap, throws tomatoes*
Damn! Forgot the Billingsworthes! They can have some tomatoes too.
They have their faults, but that’s some pretty high standards you’re holding them to.
Almost all of them are okay-ish. Ross is on a separate plane of awful from the rest of them, just from a flash judgment. And Blaine is on a whole separate plane of awful above that.
So… are Dorothy (and probably Dina)’s parents the only supportive parents in the Dumbiverse?
Sierra’s parents seem kind of awesome.
Mike’s parents.
Mike’s parents are this scary kind of 50’s-stereotype, Ozzie-and-Harriet kind of supportive that’s horrible in its own way. It’s why Mike is decent and well-adjusted, but an asshole.
I don’t think Dumbiverse Galasso has been shown to screw anything up yet.
Cute Joyce, always trying to help someone.
And never knowing how.
Well, on the bright side…
…
…………..
The only Bright Side I can think of.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHPOzQzk9Qo
indeed
I can think of another
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGdGFtwCNBE
I was just about to do that. Jerk!
The bright side is that Becky has a friend good enough to even try to understand even when she’s in way over her head.
it was only a kiss
how did it end up like this
it was only a kiss
it was only a kiss
(… she’s mrs. brightside?)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6FtqH_ImZo
On the bright side, Chapter 45 of Gunnerkrigg Court still exists, and we can all go reread that to cheer up.
sans the last two pages
Renard might be a little bit more… traditional.
Could be worse. Could be raining.
So Kaitlin did turn against her? Aww 🙁 But the school didn’t actually expel them? That’s surprising. It’s weird though with Becky presumably being 18 that her parents could just pull her out of school like that but I guess even if she is a legal adult the school being a religious institution would defer to her parents?
Ross: “I’m cancelling the check for my daughter’s tuition.”
School: “Becky, you have no money, you’re kicked out. Good luck with life.”
Oh yeah I momentarily forgot there are parents who can/do pay for their kids education. My own experience was relying entirely on state aid.
My parents are paying for my college (thankfully). Cancellation is definitely possible for mine (which is not Anderson) between semesters. I’m not sure about mid-semester, though.
I’m really glad my parents aren’t bigoted assholes.
Can tuition be canceled like that? Assuming the check already went through, I would expect the policy to be “No Refunds”.
I’m pretty sure the college didn’t kick Becky out because he stopped paying. That’s his fight with them, probably later; Becky said he “pulled her out of college” which implies more forbidding her to go than getting her kicked out.
Good luck cancelling a check that got paid out a month ago. It can nominally happen, but you’ll have to prove they’re a scam to your bank (and probably their’s). Have fun with that.
But you know, they can make her life hell even if she stays, and Rent very well might be monthly.
you seem to underestimate the lengths religious fanatics will go to stop what they deem as sinful. Especially if it involves gay sex.
Oh, I know the lengths they’ll go to. I’m not saying he wouldn’t try. Hence ‘good luck’.
My guess would be that the school was prepared to kick them both out, but agreed not to impose the maximum penalty if the parents agreed to a lesser one. Kaitlin’s parents supported her remaining in school as long as she renounced her evil lesbian ways and blamed Becky for everything. Becky’s parents (or father at least) chose more extreme measures. Ross might have been planning on conversion therapy.
This. Basically, everyone within Becky’s world-up-to-now is against her. Except Joyce… who is trying. There’s that.
Adding to what people have said about tuition: even if her expenses for the term are all paid up, why would she stay there for the rest of the term knowing she’ll have to leave? Everyone there knows she’s gay and Kaitlin turned against her. That campus is probably like a nightmare. And even if her parents can’t get the tuition back, her housing and meal plan might be more tenuous.
It’s also possible that Becky’s 17, not 18. I was a freshman in college when I turned 18 due to the age cut off in the school district I started in.
DAMN YOU, ROOOOOOOOOOSSSSSS!!!
Although, to be fair, at least her parents haven’t disowned her. Misguided, maybe, but they haven’t completely abandoned her. Hopefully.
Call the principal’s dad and tell on them. They’ll get so grounded.
Oooooh principal is espousing a heteronormative worldview and discriminating based on sexual orientation oooooooooohhhhhhhh
No late night debauchery with the other deans for You , barely young man !
I can’t say I blame Kaitlin for taking the party line, as much as I want to. You take what steps you have to to protect and support yourself.
However, Ross, Kaitlin’s parents, and the school can go suck a bag of dicks.
All at once or one after another?
It is a BAG of dicks. Probably at least one for everybody.
Circle suck.
Yes. With a time machine if necessary.
I have a hard time just excusing Kaitlin when she so obviously sold Becky out. But on the other hand, she’s just some scared kid, who’s right to be fearful of the backlash if Becky’s situation is any indicator…
But, yeah, you’ve chosen a just punishment for the rest of them.
Yep, that’s the thing. What Katlin did is obviously a thing that’s harmful, but she’s also under the definition of duress. The same horrible punishments might just be waiting for her. It doesn’t matter how cynically or how grudgingly agreed to sell out Becky. And a college education, rightly or wrongly (Probably wrongly, given the barriers we put up to getting one) is really fucking important to a future.
Eh, we don’t actually know Kaitlin’s side of it. Maybe cynically threw Becky under the bus, but maybe she tried to stand up for her and it didn’t help, or maybe she convinced herself that Becky really *did* seduce her and is in full on denial- there’s just too little information to make any kind of judgement of her, imo.
Just reread the comic and Becky does say “she told everyone I was a bad influence or something like that,” which does sound like selling her out, but the “something like that” indicates to me that Becky heard it second-hand and may not know the whole story.
I assume some level of coercion.
I think simply being in that position qualifies as coercion. I doubt there’s anything Kaitlin could have done that would have really helped Becky, and I find it pretty plausible that even attempting to would simply have put Kaitlin in the same boat.
I’m making some character judgments based on the Walkyverse strips Willis posted on Tumblr, but it seems likely that Kaitlin could’ve said, “It was totally my idea and my only regret is that we didn’t lock the door,” and, while it might’ve helped Becky’s morale, it would’ve just meant that instead of taking Becky out of school to “fix” her, shitbrick would’ve taken Becky out of school to get her away from the corrupting influence of the homogays, and maybe done some preventative “fixing” just in case she caught the gay, and it might well have gotten Kaitlin kicked or taken out of school, too.
So I’m finding it hard to blame Kaitlin for saving herself. Though I won’t say that Becky doesn’t have reason to feel bitter about it.
… Though she might have tried, “So, uh, funny story, we were changing into our pajamas, and when Becky was taking her pants off, she tripped over them and fell on me and knocked me over onto her bed and landed with her face right in front of my you know and we both shouted and I might have taken the Lord’s name in vain because I lost my glasses and that’s when the RA came in and found us naked with Becky’s face between my legs. So you see it totally wasn’t what it looked like. I’m not even sure what you think it looked like. I don’t know anything about this stuff you’re talking about. It sure sounds sinful to me.”
No, a BOWL of dicks. You gotta let ’em breathe a little. Y’know, like wine or brandy.
I know they will get through this. Have faith everyone. Trust in the heart of the cards.
But the deck is stacked against them! Everybody’s dad sucks! Except for Dorothy’s dad I guess? Oh and Dina’s dad wasn’t an asshole!
Best Dad in the city award goes to … Galasso?
I believe in the pancreas of the cards.
Islet this this go too long and Galling as it is to admit I can’t think of a single pun involving Langerhans …
I didn’t think anyone would have the guts to make a comment like that.
I’m a firm bileliver that if you can’t stomach a few puns there’s something gastrically wrong with you …
Someone should be (gall) stoned for this!
Perhaps, I could believe, if I could believe in hope, or fate, or even random chance acting in their favor. But, the god of this universe is WILLIS. There is no hope.
Gosh no Geminia not Ambers Dad Blaine. He makes Ross look like a bunny.
Someone needs to tell that “butthole” that you can no more fix gay than you can fix being black. And that it’s probably his fault.
That may be true, but I’ll figure out the cure to being white one of these days, Opus. Melanin is the way to go!
The cure for white people is to hook them up with darker people and have them reproduce. white is fairly difficult to maintain.
Tell that to MJ
yikes.
She’s been told, repeatedly. There are no insurance companies that will pay for “reparative therapy” because it has been proven not to work, in fact the former head of the association for reparative therapy recently got married to his longtime male partner…
…I think we’re talking about different people, because I meant Michael Jackson.
I’m wondering who Opus is talking about, because the only other MJ I can think of is Mary Jane Watson-Parker, and, while I haven’t read Spider-Man comics in a while, that doesn’t really seem like a direction Marvel would want to take them.
Becky’s Dad looks like the Asshole from that one Shortpacked strip.
oh yeah that one
This strip.
http://www.shortpacked.com/index.php?id=1398
WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOA
Toe people abound
Am I the only one who thinks Becky’s dad kinda looks like Joe if he just really let himself go?
I have ascended this mortal plane I am now one with a fictional character because someone needs to scream YOU GO GIRL at becky
+ 1
Joyce is naive. Fathers also f**k things up, sometimes deliberately.
“Joyce is naive”
breaking news
I honestly can’t think of anyone in the cast (aside from maybe Leslie) who’d be able to handle this situation properly..
Hopefully Joyce will get a bunch of them together and between them hash out a semi-proper approach.
*glances up at the comic title*
However unlikely that scenario is…
Well, now I’m hoping this will lead into the Leslie/Robin plot. I really want to see how that one plays out.
I agree that Leslie is the best suited for helping (and that she’s long overdue a place in the spotlight) but I think that Joyce is much more likely to ask help from an acquaintance closer to her, aka Ethan.
He’s the only “””openly””” queer person she really knows and would be comfortable talking with about it (she doesn’t know about the Billie-Ruth ship yet). Ethan being called for help could also what finally makes him realize how bad his current deal with Joyce is, and decide to affirm himself.
THEN they can search for associations working to help persecuted gay young persons or go to Leslie. That way we got Character growth for both Joyce and Ethan and psychological and practical support for Becky …. poor Girl will have to go through very rough times.
Agreed that Leslie would be best, but I’d tie Billie with Ethan on “people Joyce is likely to ask”, because she knows/thinks that Billie has already overcome a gay temptation/situation AND is awesomely helpful and knowledgeable about stuff.
Actually, I’m kinda-sorta rooting for her to ask Billie. This seems like the sort of shit-has-hit-the-fan situation that Alpha bongo Cheerleader Billie has solved once or twice in high school.
I one hundred percent agree with you about Billie being helpful and Joyce probably calling her to the rescue.
However, please Joyce do NOT call Billie because you think she “used to feel gay and have been through this phase, so she can help de-gaying Becky and everything will be back to normal” . That would bad, like really bad (fortunately Billie wouldn’t agree to assist in that).
Ugh. Becky’s dad isn’t a butthole, that’s not strong enough a word. He is a cockmangler. Yet, fun fact, he COULD be both. …I hate that he isn’t real and I can’t punch him.
“Because of him, I’ll never be able to curse properly!”
From what I’ve seen so far, I can’t really say any of the parents we’ve met would be a safe haven for Becky to find even temporary shelter.
Right now I’m going to jump on the ‘have her stay with Leslie’ bandwagon. Becky needs someplace safe to get her thoughts together about what to do next.
Dorothy’s parents? Maybe? They at least probably know how to obtain resources from the nearest PFLAG chapter.
One hopes. The problem is we don’t know where they live in relation to campus, which might limit their immediate effectiveness.
Ehhh, that’s a bit of an exaggeration. Dorothy and Sierra have great parents, and Amber’s mom, Danny’s parents, and Dina’s parents seem fine from what I remember. But I agree, Leslie would be a great parental or sisterly figure for Becky.
And let’s not forget Mike’s parents! They’re like his polar opposie and still put up with him!
short-term option that may or may not get me yelled at: LGBTQ friendly religious chaplaincy. I know on some campuses most chaplaincies are housed in converted residential houses and will provide limited rooming to visitors/students who help run it or rent a room or two at a discounted rate; given the obvious emergency circumstances I suppose short-term housing and facilities use could be arranged that would be better than “crash on the dorm floor and hope for the best” and she’d be close to her best friend and newfound support network at least until her life’s stabilized a tiny bit and Leslie’s had a chance to meet her and help her sort things out a bit.
Danny’s parents are kind of awful. (Which makes them above average by DoA parent standards, I guess?) See here, here, and the hovertext here.
It is a sad state of affairs when Joe’s dad is the gold standard for parenthood.
She could go live with Dina’s parents. They would not refuse her, because they do not know how.
“If my parents find out… they will take me home and I will never come back.” -Joyce Brown, 10/21/2011
Shit. I guess she was right, if Becky’s family is any indication.
Hmm… potential dads? Almost all the dads that have played plot points were kind of jerks. Except for Walky’s and Dorothy’s respective dads.
…
My vote’s for Dorothy’s. He has thus far made the least offensive choices (given the Walkerton’s latent racist decisions.)
Dina’s dad was just a bit of a polite doormat but he wasn’t bad.
Dina’s family is too quiet and polite, though. We need somebody with more spine in case the boat needs some rocking.
Yeah, they let Blaine into Amber’s room even though Dina warned them.
I think Reno Snow would be the optimal dad here. He has a proven track record for standing up to abusive assholes.
And Joyce actually knows Sierra. They go to church together every week.
Ooh, yeah, if Joyce is set on going for a dad, Reno Snow is great. I’m not sure that Joyce has met him, but from a reader perspective, he’s easily the best dad in this comic.
Luckily in college, EVERYONE is a potential dad. Wear a condom, kids.
Mike’s dad is pretty great. Call up Mike’s dad! He can adopt her and it’ll be a win-win situation; Becky gets a dad whose not a butthole and the Warners get a child who’s psychologically capable of responding positively to their affection.
Seriously? Nobody said anything about my heart of the cards thing? Wow, surprising…
I have no idea what that is.
It’s a Yu-Gi-Oh! reference. Also, did I just make my first ever comment on this awesome comic, on such an emotional point, to note that?
I gotta start posting better…
Haha, thanks!
It would seem you were delt a bad hand.
Doesn’t help that her dad is such a ‘card’.
Yeah, that Joker really ought to be decked …
Sorry … I’ll shuffle off to bed now …
Screw the Yu-Gi-Oh references, I have money!
Better? (I’ve only ever seen the abridged series, so…)
Okay this is bad. But this is also great! Because Joyce is going to totally see how horrible it is to try and “fix” gay people. That they can’t be “fixed” because there isn’t anything wrong. At the least, she’ll realize how harmful it is. And she’ll start thinking about Ethan, and how maybe he needs to be his own person.
Also Kaitlin nooooo whyyyyyyy…? I mean I know why, but still. And man her dad is horrible.
This might be wishful thinking on my part.
No, I think that’s going to be part of the conclusion as well. Especially since Joyce was praying for a sign in regards to Ethan right before Becky showed up. This is a fucking sign.
I feel like all of that fixing stuff was sort of forgotten about after Amber’s outburst in the cafeteria. I could be wrong, but I just see her less as a fixer and more of a beard that’s trying to find that compassion she wants so dearly.
I… I can be a dad.
y’know, Becky secretly sleeping in Ethan’s bed would kind of be the perfect thing to feed his need for secrecy, Becky’s need for shelter, and Joyce’s need to.. ahm… well, to help her friend.
And if she doesn’t tell Becky that she loves her soon, Ima reach in there and smack her upside the head.
SHE TRIED SO HARD
AND GOT SO FAR
BUT IN THE END
IT DOESN’T EVEN MATTER
No… just no
Still nothing… I think I’ll be waiting forever on that one. Cosmic forces, you have failed me today.
You waited one minute for cosmic forces? The doctor will be in eventually, though he does have questionable taste, what with that bow tie and fez nonsense. He may actually LIKE Linkin Park. *shudder* Let’s hope that’s not the case.
Hey, that minute could’ve felt like an eternity!
Yeah! Call Amber’s dad, he seems like he is used to dealing with children with identity issues!
Naw, Ethan’s dad. He may be a homophobe but he’s not very vocal about it.
Or Mikes Dad he’s always supportive….of everything.
Call Sierra’s Dad!
He… actually seemed pretty reasonable.
Well first they’re going to haft to wake his punk ass up out of that Coma.
He is not in a coma since he was able to give his account of what happened to him to the police.
“I said, to heck with that because I was raised in the 50s”
Ross “Babies” MacIntyre
Ross “I Eat Babies” MacIntyre
Fixed that for you.
yaaaay, gaia
Would you say Becky’s situation could be described as “babes MacIntyre”
I see precisely one MacIntyre babe, singular.
Sorry
not sorry.Ross “O’Donovan” MacIntyre.
…
God damn it Ross.
I’m kind of hoping “Ross” is actually his middle name, and his first name is “George” or something, so he’s G.Ross MacIntyre.
Hey, Blaine now looks like father of the year compared to this Jackass.
Hey now, homophobia sucks, but Blaine verges on just plain evil.
Indeed. Ignorance is bad, but it’s more forgivable than evilness.
You’re kidding right? Evil is more forgivable than this! Evil has a reasonable purpose, this is just sickening!
I dunno, it’s hard to out-horrible an abusive, sadistic control-freak.
Even if you’re a narrow-minded super-conservative extremist.
Yeah, Ross wants to “fix” Becky. Blaine only wants to destroy.
… You guys do realize what “fixing” sexuality entails, right? To quote Wikipedia’s page on conversion therapy:
“Psychologist Douglas Haldeman writes that conversion therapy comprises efforts by mental health professionals and pastoral care providers to convert lesbians and gay men to heterosexuality by techniques including aversive treatments, such as “the application of electric shock to the hands and/or genitals,” and “nausea-inducing drugs…administered simultaneously with the presentation of homoerotic stimuli,” masturbatory reconditioning, visualization, social skills training, psychoanalytic therapy, and spiritual interventions, such as “prayer and group support and pressure.””
This leaves out another thing historically used to try and fix gay people, corrective rape.
I don’t care what his intentions are, if he’s going to get ANYONE to do ANY of those things to his daughter, then he’s only a miniscule step up from Blaine at the very best.
Pretty sure we can agree that they both totally suck.
They’re both abusive sacks of shit. They’re both equally terrible.
Yeah, this is a race that nobody actually wins.
Oh sweetie, with everything going on, you’ve earned the right to swear. Go ahead and cuss him out!
T_T
… *Remembers Becky’s dad did in fact make appearances in J&W*
*Remembers what those appearances were like*
Oh god poor Becky. Poor poor poor poor Becky. Joyce, this is way out of your league. Get Sarah or Dorothy or Ruth on this shit, like, NOW.
This is clearly a Job for Amazi-girl
Actually, AG would be a totally decent choice! Amber probably knows all about resources for supporting gay kids. And Joyce knows that she can contact AG through Dorothy. DO IT JOYCE
I’m just worried about what Amazi-Girl’s going through, ah… right this very moment.
And if another abusive dad shows up with her there, it… Yeah, that might not be pretty.
Amazigirl is also known for beating the crude out of dickass dads.
Which would be cathartic as fuck, but would almost certainly not put anyone there in a good situation legally.
The potential for Mr. Toedad getting assaulted by Amazi-girl is minimized by the high likelihood that she wouldn’t be told where to find him. She would want to flay him, but she would be unable.
Pff, “dickass”. Isn’t that Ethan’s hole problem?
“Dum-dum-dum. Hmmm. Where did that worthless daughter of mine go, and why am I suddenly standing in a dark alley.”
“[deep voice] Hello Ross. We need to… talk.”
Willis put them up on Tumblr. They
make me want to remind Walky that he’s a superpowered supersoldier, and see if any solutions present themselves.
Can you links?
Dorothy’s dad! Call her parents!! Come oooonnnnn
I’m not the only one thinking this.
I think I will shrivel up in a corner now… You people are so mean…
Nobody said anything about it… I was prepared for a “wtf?” or “Why?”
I just started reading through the comics… why? Wassamatta? talk to the Roz face… it is excellent listener.
look at that mans fucking face
the face of a man who has never heard a lover’s laugh
a man who has never heard the phrase
“you are fine”
from a doctor
I changed my mind. Becky bugs me because I’ve got a friend going through something similar and I get a twisty feeling in my gut when I think about it. I guess I just didn’t want to admit that it was hurting me.
Well, calling a dad seems to be the better shot than calling a mom, given the evidence in the comic.
Almost feels like a self-reference.
I’m done… goodbye people…
Wait, what?
Kaitlin! Traitor!
I knew she couldn’t be trusted.
( I mean, I suppose I understand trying to save yourself, but c’mon, it’s Becky. She’s adorable.)
I was already interested in seeing where this was going, but now I’m doubly interested. Mostly because I want to see if Becky learns about what Joyce is doing with Ethan. She seems to be on the side of “I’m not broken, so there isn’t anything to fix” and I wonder how she’ll react to learning that her closest friend is doing just that with someone else.
Damn you Willis. Why do you have to make your drama so compelling?!
what is it with this comic and everyone having terrible dads
Man Dads in this Comic is kind of suck ass…Except for Joes Dad.
Joe’s dad probably has sucked an ass or two. Ask Amber’s mom.
here’s a nickle.
No, Joe’s dad kind of sucks. Not nearly as bad as some, but there are others a lot better than him too.
Seriously? Dr. Dick is who you’re going to hold up as the standard for non-terrible dads in the Dumbiverse? Not Sierra’s dad, who unhesitatingly stepped in front of a raging maniac to assist a complete stranger, or Dorothy’s dad, who brought Dorothy up to be Dorothy, but the guy who had Sarah threatening to twist his balls off within ten seconds of meeting her?
Galasso is a dad! Go ask him what to do!
He doesn’t even know what a lesbian is he would be perfect.
WHO DARE DISTURB GALASSOS CUSTOMERS!!! (OK, at this point I basically just write revengeficks in my head)
Ross MacIntyre?
The one with the Babies?
That was McIntyre. Don’t you know where babies come from? I mean, really come from?
Joe’s probably a dad… ask him
I like how Joyce wants to look to a man for advice. That reminds me of the fundies I’ve known who like keeping the menfolk the head of their households.
yay something I did assume correctly – it was Becky’s parents that pulled her, not the school. Someone posted on some other page’s comments that Anderson had pride groups and clubs for glbt so I figured there was probably a no sexy time clause for the students and that’s why they got in trouble. Screw you though, Kaitlin.
So now I’m wondering if Becky really is /in/ love with Joyce, or just loves her plus amp’d up to the nines because she’s her only hope now.
Nah, if anything Becky doesnt have a mom. Joyce’s line is just a bit of gallows humor.
I had noticed that they only talked about Becky’s dad (even though Becky mentions Kaitlin’s parents, plural). So I’m taking it that Becky’s mom isn’t around – hopefully she got away from Toxic Macasswipe and is happy somewhere else, but in that case it’d be strange that Becky was still living with her dad. I call Dead Mom.
Or Ross may only be this way because he handled losing his wife very badly, and I’ll end up having to sympathise with him because Willis is that kind of monster.
It seems uncharacteristic of Willis to provide any kind of justification or excuse for abusive parenting.
His stories have always seemed pretty solid on the moral of “you don’t owe your abusers understanding or forgiveness” and playing Ross’s backstory for pathos (for Ross, not for Becky) would be off message. You might see reasons why Ross is the way he is but I doubt the story will encourage you to sympathize.
Becky’s dad is worse than Amber’s.
Close, but I still put Blaine on the top of the “Worst Dad” list, if only because we have verification that he was physically abusive to his wife and daughter.
and now he has several broken ribs.
Well in fairness Ross is trying to “Help” his daughter in the worst way possible.
Blaine is a childish dickhead who beats his wife and emotionally torments his daughter.
Both are awful but Ross at least thinks he’s helping his kid even if he’s wrong.
Really? Ross’ expression (and Walkyverse appearances) suggest a much more authoritarian stance than, say, Joyce’s parents. I read him along the lines of “My daughter is wrong and corrupted and stands condemned of God, and I did not give her permission to do that! I will bring her back into line because she is under my authority,” – not “My daughter has made a mistake and is in a personal crisis, I will help her find her way back to the right path.” (There… may not be much real difference beyond tone between those, now I type them out. But at least the latter may admit the possibility of change.)
Right now I’m keeping Blaine on top as a proven serial abuser, but I’m not holding out much hope that Ross doesn’t believe in “spare the rod, spoil the child”. As it is, he looks to have Blaine’s control-freak authoritarianism with a side helping of self-righteousness thanks to being convinced that God is on his side.
All this based on one (1) on-panel appearance and a second-hand commentary! So many blanks getting filled in by expectations…
I think I might have changed my mind having read his Walkyverse appearances on Willis’ main Tumblr.
They’re both pretty high on the terrible radar.
C’mon, Joyce. I know this is a challenge that you were never taught in Sunday School, but you can do it. You have a best friend at school who is (1) an atheist, and is therefore not burdened with having to justify Becky’s “transgression”, and (2) super-genius smart. So who should you talk to next…? Starts with a “D”…
Dad?
David Walkerton
that is… technically true…
Much as I like Walky I don’t recommend getting him involved quite yet though 😛
Still probably better than that other “D” character, Dina.
I am sure her heart would be in the right place (right between the lungs, and a little to the left), but yeah, I don’t think she could help much.
Oh god she would have no idea what was the matter. Or why it was a problem to begin with. Which would probably be refreshing, but not all that helpful.
She would explain how dinosaurs and birds manage procreation just fine without a penis. Well, except for ducks.
I’m not sure we’ve seen anything about Dorothy’s past that suggests that she would have any experience to guide them on what to do next. I don’t know where this sort of family trauma would have come up in her studies.
Family trauma, no. But maybe in her quest to transfer to Yale, she’s run across some stuff that could get Becky a scholarship somewhere?
And she has drive, skill and willingness to work the system. That helps a long way.
And if not, I’m sure her parents will know something. If they can’t get Becky into college, they can at least house her until she is able to support herself.
I believe that someone looked up the other day that Dorothy volunteers at a shelter or soup kitchen, she probably knows various resources and/or how to find them, and probably knows a lot about scholarships and the like. And she would think to involve, say, *her* parents or Leslie…
… actually, have we ever seen Dorothy be wrong about anything? I can’t think of one off the top of my head, beyond the general workaholism.
DSal?
DSal? Despite how close that is to “diesel”, we may want to look a bit further.
Destiel?
Dean Winchester might be helpful against Aliens in the Walkyverse, but I dunno about here. He has family issue of his own to worry about.
I suppose Castiel could be helpful, for moral support if nothing else, since he is an angle and the girls are Christian (and even when he was in crazy-mode, he had no problem with homosexuals, much less normally)
*angel, oops
Though the college might have issues with a very strange man in a trench coat claiming to be an angel of the lord trying to help two upset young girls 😛
Dietzel from Wapsi Square.
He is a sweetie.
Damber?
Death?
You could…call a mom…
Yeeeah, not necessarily a good idea.
I mean DOA’s “horrible moms team” doesn’t have a gold-star Jackass the level of Blaine, but Joyce’s and Ethan’s moms are be just as bad as Becky’s dad.
Seriously Joyce, do NOT fuck it up. Stay with Becky and LISTEN to her. Do your best not to say anything stupid and do not let her alone. Offer to shelter her for the night (Sarah will definetely agree once she’s heard the story). Tomorrow, round up an emergency team with Ethan for emotional support and Dorothy for gathering useful intel on LGBT support groups. You’ll have plenty of time to address the practical issues. Then, if you need there are a few adults you can contact : professionals, Dorothy’s parents, Leslie ….
But right now the lifesaving thing you can do is Stay at Becky’s side because You Love your Friend !
Also, cell in Billie because she’s a Problem-Solving Alpha bongo.
(She even has connections with the university staff, that’s how awesome she is !)
unfortunately… and i so hate to say it, but… i think Willis is going to take the darkest of roads here.
But hopefully the EMTs will save Becky’s life. Joyce will be crushed.
Willis is on record as saying that no one is going to die in this strip, so I don’t think he’s going to take that path.
That said, how many strips do you have to appear in before you are counted as “someone”?
She’s someone to Joyce and that’s enough. Think about realistically how long Joyce would grieve and how slow this strip moves time-wise.
Shes staying alive, else he will have to remove Joyce as a character, too.
With the slow-time Joyce would be in extreme grief for the rest of the comic, and it would effect nearly every character.
—which probably explains why Joyce’s “pastor’s son” didnt rape her.
( Yes, I know what happened to joyce was awful. But its all the truly more-awful when its successful )
More than three, because he’s also said he might kill off Tony because no one cares about him.
So Ross is still fair game!
Also Kaitlin.
Judging by the “great character” or “greatest character” poll, I’d say Becky qualifies as a “someone.”
I don’t think he’ll have her attempt suicide. If he did, yes she would live, because he promised no deaths. But the thing is, people don’t just snap out of it when someone dies, especially suicide. It takes a very long time, years even. I think that Willis would know this, and choose not to take that path. Becky will definitely struggle with depression, no doubt about that. If he chose to take a dark path, self harm would be the extent.
Wouldn’t informing Becky’s parents without her consent be a violation of FERPA? Technically, as Becky is an adult, they’re not allowed to tell her parents anything.
(I know, I know – don’t spoil drama with inconvenient real world stuff…)
Do those tiny, crazy conservative, self-accrediting Christian colleges listen to FERPA? I mean, I guess they have to, but they might have had her sign some form waiving those rights at the beginning of the year.
Amending my previous statement: I had no idea that Anderson is a real (as in non-fictional) college. Who knows what their deal is.
S’funny, I’ve been idly wondering through this arc (inconvenient reality incursion alert) what the legal position would be if Willis showed a named, real-world college kicking a student out for being gay, and they took exception. IANAL, obviously.
lol, one of the people in my grad school went to Anderson.
I’m pretty sure FERPA only applies to schools that take federal funds.
Anderson participates in federal student aid.
… Didn’t realize it was a real university. I thought Willis made it up.
lol, one of the people in my grad school went to Anderson.
IU’s also real. Beck and Clark halls are real. Heck, I think the comic book store Danny and Ethan visited is real. Willis is doing his best to ground the story in a real location.
Yeah, it’s where Willis does signings in Bloomington. The comic shop clerk Amber shoved when she and Danny were there is a real guy who actually works there, too. He left some comments on those strips.
I found the AAA parking lot across from the McDonald’s where Amber beat the shit out of Blaine on Google Maps, too. It’s like a mile and a half from the library she jumped off.
Naw, if I made it up, it’d have a sweet jokey name, like Christypants University or something like that.
FERPA permits disclosure to parents if the student is a dependent for income tax purposes.
FERPA says that if a student break a rule, and it “allows schools to disclose those records, without consent, to the following parties or under the following conditions.” Becky’s parents would fall into “appropriate parties in connection with financial aid to a student” because dorms cost money, and it’s in their digression whether Becky is moved to a different dorm etc. Also, I think because it is against Anderson University’s policy to have sex in the dorm rooms, it counts as a school judicial issue, which FERPA again grants the right of parties deemed “appropriate” to know about.
*breaks
I called it. She ran away.
How about Dorothy’s dad?
I’m pretty sure she ran away from her own dad, not Dorothy’s. Thankyew, thankyew, try your waitress and tip the veal.
Maybe she should talk to Leslie instead?
1) Good job Joyce for listening to your friend and wanting to help her in a non-jerkwad way. And good job for apparently realizing that your own dad probably isn’t the best person to call either.
2) I nominate Sierra’s dad, he of the “peaceful interference,” for dad-to-call right now. Either him or Dorothy’s father.
This reminds me, isn’t Joyce trying to “fix” Ethan?
Hmm. This could change her approach.
I said the other day that I really hope that happens, and I still do
I think her conversation with Amazigirl kind of points out that she’s not so much as trying to fix him as trying to be with someone she feels safe with.
But yeah, I think this’ll give her a pause about her saying that to him from now on.
Well, I called it. With Becky’s family problem revealed, I believe she has now surpassed Amber in sadness/appearances.
She still has a ways to go before she beats Amber in total sads (Amber has a whopping 3486 kilotears, or 0.92 Seymours)
3790 Ktears to the Seymour? I thought Seymours were an even, round number of Ktears but not a decimal function, something like 4096 Ktears = 1 Seymour.
To Joyce’s credit, it has not once even occurred to her to shame, blame, or scold Becky, or say or imply that she’s broken and needs fixing, or do anything else on the list of bad things people do when someone comes out to them. She’s been nothing but 100% loyal and supportive, and that’s pretty cool.
What? No, I’m not crying, I just finished cooking onions. For my tomato sauce. That I’m putting on my spaghetti. Fir dinner and stuff. Honestly.
I don’t think any less of you.
Yet. It has not occurred to her yet. Or maybe it has occurred to her, but she is stalling a bit before she implores Becky to “come back to Christ”.
Remember, even if Joyce manages to get herself around to “love the sinner; hate the sin”, this is still reeeeeeeealy awkward for her, and while trying to balance her affection for her friend and her religious beliefs, she may put a foot down wrong and have this all blow up in her face (again) yet.
I’m pretty sure she’s just socially aware enough to tell it’d be hurtful if she took the conversation in that direction right now.
Later once she gets a moment to herself she’ll probably get started on considering the ramifications of all this in regards to her beliefs, her relationship with Ethan, and so forth.
Joyce? Socially aware?
YouKeepUsingThatWord.jpg
Joyce is not real socially aware, but her heart is huge. Put her indoctrination up against the people she loves, and her loved ones will win.
And she will blame herself for the dissonance, probably.
I think it’s likely to be awkward for nearly anyone to have a lifelong friend, same- or opposite-sex, confess to romantic feelings (and then insist that you must feel the same way). Many of us might put a foot wrong in that situation.
Actually Joyce already kind of came around to “love the sinner; hate the sin” before when she stood up for Dorothy in front of her family. Call me an optimist, but I think Joyce is just a good person, and in particular, she trusts her own experience that tells her her friends are good over her religious beliefs that tell her they’re bad. (I’m sure there’s a philosophy term for this, and I’m equally sure I don’t know it.) But here, I think she’s even going farther than just “love the sinner; hate the sin” — she hasn’t done or said *anything* to even imply or hint that Becky has done something sinful. I don’t think the sinfullness has even bubbled up into her consciousness yet. Sure, she’ll think about it eventually, but she doesn’t seem to have the capacity for the automatic, *reflexive* hatred that is all too common in people. Thus my contention that she is a good person and also “pretty cool”.
Or her religion is an anchor to her rather than a hammer.
For some people there is a difference to relishing brownies and force-feeding someone who does not like them until they throw up and say they are great.
For others, there isn’t. Some think that if they are not able to convince themselves, it may help them to convince others.
Hey, it’s actually more or less how I acquired college math: by explaining it to others who were slower in the uptake. I probably improved my own scores more than theirs since I’d have been too lazy to work on it just for my own sake. I mean I was good, right? Good buys you nothing without practice.
If you are firmly rooted in your religion, you tend to trust your heart rather than the books. This is what Joyce is apparently going by currently.
When she does not know how to arrive at a solution this way, she might still turn to the book and prayer and whatnot. But not likely the forcefeeding bit.
Carla has a room all to herself for reasons, and I’m pretty sure Joyce knows that.
I hope this leads into them roping Carla into giving Becky a place to crash for a little bit. It’d keep Becky around and mean more screen time for Carla. Two birds with one stone.
Unfortunately, I think “reasons” is literally all Joyce knows about why Carla has her own room.
Yeah, I think that was one of Joyce’s comical “She doesn’t know things” moments at some point.
Don’t think anybody knows about Carla yet though. Even within her friend circle she’s alluded to it being all “There’s a reason I’m so tall” and they haven’t been interested enough to respond “Why Carla, whatever are you referring to?”
There we go.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-5/01-when-somebody-loved-me/introductions/
Went and looked up the strip I was thinking of. Was actually crazy recent. So that’s how much Joyce knows.
For what it’s worth, I think Sal knows, and I’m guessing Ruth would have to.
But why would you have Becky share a room with Carla, on top of all the things she’s already going through?? Ó_Ò
For shipping purposes?
I don’t blame Joyce for being clueless here. Most people her age don’t know how to face real life crises. When I got turned out onto the street without a clue where to even sleep, my friends didn’t know what to say. They couldn’t exactly take me in and they had no idea where to even start, and neither did I.
Just google it.
No seriously. “homeless gay bloomington indiana help” brings up SafeHorizon.org as the first result, complete with a toll-free help-line. There’s also the Indiana Youth Group in Indianapolis, which is just 50 miles away–a short bus ride.
It also brings up the info that there are no gay bars in Bloomington, which is a good sign that it is a place to exit as soon as possible. For a college town of over 80k people, that’s ludicrous.
But yeah. When life has you stumped, you can now google a few possible answers instead of stewing because you have no clue.
No dude, Bloomington is really gay. It’s a really a LGBT friendly place. Probably the best place for a gay Hoosier outside of Indianapolis.
Relative to the rest of the state. In the midwest, that doesn’t necessarily amount to much.
I wouldn’t really know, I haven’t spent much time Outside of Indiana. But I don’t think A lack of gay bars means that Becky has to get out ASAP. It’s nice here.
So is Becky homeless at this point? There’s no way in hell Joyce would leave her without a place to stay, but what can she actually do?
In another universe, someone familiar to us spent weeks or months apparently sleeping on the floor in a room in the guys’ dorm.
i’m sorry,but would you mind explaining that? I really hope I’m not missing something obvious.
In the Walkyverse, Billie’s housemates kicked her out, and she apparently spent the rest of the year crashing in Danny and Joe’s room. Though I think it was Danny who had to sleep on the floor.
Thank you. I appreciate the context.
This also happens in Candicomics.com although technically a coed dorm, it was in a guys room.
Yes Becky keeps on appearing while leaving a vague impression that she maybe crashing in Joyce’s room, all while striving off sexual tension from leaving with Joyce.
Living* dangit
Becky’s last name is MacIntyre?
In that case, as a substitute dad can I recommend Fred MacIntire? Though, possibly circa a few years ago.
They do have a pretty good track record of taking in strays.
Damn good point! And we know they live in the same universe. Funny that no one there ever mentions the invasion though…
(the walkyverse version that is)(presumably they have doppelgangers here, since everyone else does)
The last time Willis included a cameo (that I actually noticed), it included someone having a great time with their dead father. If that’s the line Willis is running with cameos, I’d rather not have Fred MacIntire show up because it would probably be heartbreaking.
Given today’s S*P, I wouldn’t want Becky to go over there either!
Well, that’s two dads in this comic who need to be facepunched until the twitching stops.
Well, unless you’re referring to death rather than being knocked out, Blaine’s already had his dose of facepunchings.
Well, his first dose. He may need another round of ‘medicine’.
Yea, I want to use one to hit the other one with, until both are nothing more than stains on the ground.
ok. list of people who will eventualy become a legion duumb: ross aded. With blaine, ryan, mary and the literal embodyment of ruth’s depression we are comig close to a super hero battle with every cast member creating a super hero persona, in a finaly of full awesomeness… kinda trailed of… the point is ross is an awful individual
Maybe Invisible Sky Dad can wave His hands and make it all better? Nah, I’m actually impressed with how Joyce doesn’t immediately worry about what God will think, what they have done to anger him or how they’re going to gain his forgiveness.
Man, I’m tearing up from this storyline, regardless of the fact that I’m in a public place, reading this on my phone.
Becky could room with Carla, provided if they can rally the friends (especially Sal) together and get Becky a place to crash for the time being. And if they can bring in Leslie and get more help from the school PFLAG section, so much the better.
Sigh, I’m really hoping Becky pulls though all this. It looks as though, for all the crap she’s going through, she’s determined to remain who she knows she is. Joyce, you owe that girl a hug!
Oh, one hopes one hopes one HOPES.
Again, that’s just a google search away. “university lgbt bloomington indiana” brings up the GLBT Student Support Services Office – Indiana University as the first search result. And what’s more Indiana University Bloomington was included in the Campus Pride list of the top 50 LGBT-friendly colleges and universities for 2014.
This is slightly complicated by the fact that Becky is not actually a IU student. Still, it might be a good place to start finding a support network, or maybe an attractive sugar mommy.
My guess is that, if Becky even dropped the slightest hint that she was going to apply to IU, they’d work up a support network. I’d bet that there are probably more than a few members (both students and faculty) that come from a very similar family situation.
This is the one situation in which Blaine getting involved could actually help. That guy needs to lose his mustache.
Blaine is a barber?
Mary 2.0.
Same old intolerance, but now in a cuboid and hairy package!
Outsides to match the insides! A new, more honest look.
nuuuu, Becky!
Becky needs an RA
Joe’s dad to the rescue. Giggity.
Gross
yeah put the homeless lesbian girl in the house of the perverted father who hits on college girls!
………like did you think about that comment before you wrote it or
To be fair, Joe’s father has mostly hit on the mothers of college students.
And your avatar. She had to threaten testicular torsion
Joe’s father would probably try to give Becky tips for picking up girls.
… I didn’t realize until reading this strip and the comments and trying to articulate my feelings just how much trying to bottle my sexuality up actually probably impacted my first major depressive episode, but. Wow. Yeah. I was a mess of very-near-suicidal self-loathing before I came out. Those two things were in fact linked.
This is not my favorite revelation over my past cognitive state ever. 🙁
Revelations about past cognitive states always suck. Mine got me banned from this forum and I had to make a new account.
Isn’t posting that like shouting ‘I’m supposed to be banned, ban me again!’?
Empathy via light imagined physical contact, if you wish. That is just… awful.
Yep, I’m renting a room to a transwoman who has been fighting depression for years, and it wasn’t until recently that she started transitioning that the depression started to get better. Her mind was literally at war with the rest of her body because their genders didn’t match. So this happens all the time.
At this point I’m hoping that Dorothy runs into them on her way back from the interview . I feel like she could handle this situation a bit better then Joyce.
I must note that Joyce is reacting oddly. Her reaction to Ethan being gay was that it was a sin and a temptation to be resisted and fixed, so she does have that mentality towards the issue, but she’s accepting it with Becky and having the normal person’s appalled reaction to the “fixing” thing. However in her mind fixing homosexuality is the right course of action so… either she’s making an exception for her best friend, or perhaps the events of DoA have shifted her worldview a bit. Who knows maybe she’s just still in shock and is about to flip out at any moment
It is easy to project one’s own convictions and preferences onto a character in a story, especially when you only have a single expression as a reaction to three panels of dialog. So you may be right, however the expression could just as easily be feeling lost at sea because her default course of action “call a dad” has been unceremoniously tossed overboard. To me, it looks like the expression of someone who wants to act, but has no idea what to do.
That’s what I’m reading. When I was that age, and something happened that I didn’t understand, I immediately went to my father. To a number of people, dad’s got the answers. He’s seen some weird stuff, and hopefully he’s seen your variety of weird stuff. So Joyce defaults to what’s natural when someone has a loving and supportive father. “Ask dad; he knows.” And when you don’t have that option, things feel off-kilter, and you just are thunderstruck into useless inaction.
I think that a lot of people are forgetting that most of the characters here are still teenagers, and Joyce and Becky (and probably Kaitlin) are from a subculture that demands that young women submit to the will of their fathers until they submit to the will of their husbands. Given that, Becky has already taken an incredible leap, and to her credit Joyce didn’t immediately go and call her dad. But they’re still kids, basically. (And before someone starts in with “But they’re eighteen!”, I’m talking about their emotional reality, not the legal threshold.)
I think it was probably easier for her to apply the default fundie thinking to Ethan, whom she didn’t know very well, than to her best friend of many years’ standing. She’s probably got some serious cognitive dissonance going on right now. “Gays are sinners … but Becky’s not a sinner … but Becky’s gay … and gays are sinners … but Becky’s not a sinner … but Becky’s gay …”
I think one of the major themes of DOA is going to end up being “how Joyce came to throw off her fundie conditioning and become a liberal Christian.”
Being a liberal Christian myself, I’d love to see this happen. Assuming that Joyce’s often-stated autobiographical nature applies to her future and not just her past, though, I figure she’s ultimately headed towards tolerant atheism.
(Incidentally validating her parents’ fears about Dorothy’s influence, of course, and perhaps causing them to double down on their tribal insularity, but oh well.)
I wouldn’t count on that. Walkyverse Joyce never left Christianity behind, though she became much more open-minded.
She never left it it behind entirely it is true, she definitely was not one of the problematic religious folk though, so hopefully she can reach that point here too
I guess I don’t see it as odd to have different priorities toward someone who is in a personal crisis versus someone who is not.
The conversation provides enough context for her to tell Becky doesn’t want to be fixed, and as a friend Joyce wants what Becky wants.
That aside, I don’t think she’s ever gone so far as saying that gay people should be subjected to any sort of treatment against their will, so it’s not necessarily even inconsistent. Ethan was pretty receptive to the idea of being fixed.
Not that the two fixings were identical to begin with. Joyce so far hasn’t attempted to “discipline” the gay out of Ethan, whatever that would entail. Quite likely that would be a step too far in her eyes.
Joyce has her own reasons for wanting to keep Ethan around, remember? Ethan’s also encouraging her behaviour for his own reasons. And Joyce knows trying to de-gay Ethan is something that would be considered wrong by her friends and is actively hiding that fact from everyone but Sarah, who knows but doesn’t care due to a disinterest in drama.
Joyce has always been pretty reasonable about homosexuality. she reluctantly agrees it’s considered a sin but also acknowledges that it’s no worse than any other minor sin.
Joyce’s attitude has been less “Ethan is broken and I will fix him” and more “Ethan experiences sinful temptations (just like I do) and I will support him as he struggles against them”. I might be remembering wrong but I don’t think she’s said anything that implies she thinks Ethan is in any way more sinful, broken, or in need of fixing than any flawed heterosexual person.
I realize this is splitting hairs and it’s hardly more conscionable than really trying to “fix” him. Joyce needs to better herself and stop thinking of homosexuality as a sin. But people have been really outrageously exaggerating Joyce’s attitudes this arc. I think it’s an important distinction.
Also adding to this that she doesn’t seem to really understand what homosexuality is (see: her extremely sad attempts to be attractive to Ethan). She knows Ethan is “gay” but other than Ethan giving a little extra attention to Jocelyne she hasn’t seen it. She hasn’t seen Ethan with a boy he likes or heard him talk about what it means to be gay, other than that it makes his life hard. I think seeing Becky’s actual gay attraction, and how it is exactly the same as a straight crush but directed at a same-sex person and plus godawful societal baggage, will shape her up a lot.
Ugh, okay, last comment (sorry!): I feel the need to clarify…
I think that in Joyce’s conceptualization of homosexuality, Ethan is trying not to sin but does not to be fixed. I think if you applied her actions (trying to make Ethan attracted to her, etc) to what homosexuality actually is, she is effectively trying to change his orientation, which, yes, is “fixing” him. I think that Joyce would never think of it as “fixing” him because when she understands what homosexuality actually is, especially under the circumstances of seeing how Becky’s dad is betraying her and destroying her life, she won’t be able to bring herself to try to make him straight.
Like, I really don’t want to make excuses for what Joyce is doing with Ethan, but some of the comments about Joyce in this arc have been really off base. She was never going to scream at Becky.
I happen to agree with you on your point here. Ethan was showing that he WANTED to be “fixed”, so Joyce is helping. Becky is saying she DOESN’T, so Joyce will probably try to find another solution. Furthermore, Joyce would probably never imagine hurting either one of them, so would probably limit her tactics to trying to make them feel good with a member of the opposite sex.
I do hope that this is a turning point for Joyce, that this will be her “All right then, I’ll go to hell,” moment.
By which I mean the bit from Huckleberry Finn. The Slacktivist’s reading of it as a conversion narrative struck a chord with me: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/2013/11/30/today-is-the-feast-day-of-st-mark-twain/
Oh hey, another Fred Clark fan? Cool. *waves*
+1 on the actual comment, too.
From Alan Moore’s The Mirror of Love:
Becky’s wearing the same things in today’s flashbacks as she was throughout the storyline. I wonder if that means it all occurs on the same day, or if she’s actually been homeless and unable to change for a while…
well she was silent for a few days or so
Some harsh realities:
Things like this happen all the time in these great Benighted States.
A lot of the kids involved end up living on the streets. A lot end up doing sex work to survive.
There are some extremely underfunded support systems in place to help them, in some cities. Never enough. They often face discrimination and harassment from other youth.
And yes, sorry Joyce, but there usually isn’t someone’s dad, or a teacher like Leslie, or anyone else to bail them out.
Now, Willis isn’t in the business of showing us unpleasant stuff like that, so I’m sure things will work out better for Becky. But that’s the reality for most kids in her position.
Remember, kids! You will know they are Christian by their love!
“By their fruits will you know them” If they give you $&(%, then you know that’s what was in them all along.
Hamen to that.
This reminds me of the time in high school when I told a friend I’m gay and she told my mom because “she had a right to know” and “maybe she could do something about it.”
She also told her own mom, who then told me she knew a gay guy who died of AIDS and that was gonna happen to me if I kept on this “path.”
Turns out there’s a lot of moms, too. :/
Leslie knows this to be so.
They’re at university, aren’t they supposed to be grownups?
That’s pretty theoretical, for a lot of students.
Grown ups who are still dependent on their parents in a lot of ways. Not like you turn eighteen and the mayor drops by to hand you the key to your new apartment and a job with a livable wage.
This entire strip has been about (a) disproving that and (b) showing the process by which that actually happens (at least to some).
(and by strip I mean DOA as a whole, duh)
Not in murrica, nope.
Becky’s dad has a perfectly square had.
A square-headed, double-chinned Bob Beltcher.
Don’t watch the show, but pretty sure Bob is about 1000 times the dad this guy is.
Do watch the show, and am absolutely positive that Bob Belcher is 1000 times the dad this guy is. 🙂 (The Belchers are actually on my mental list of ‘most genuinely loving TV families’.)
He also kinda looks military, or former military.
Yes, the track record for dads in this comic is unparalleled in its excellence.
Wow, way to throw your roomie under the bus Kaitlin. I’m sure later on in life, you won’t think back and go “Wow… what an incredibly awful thing to do that was…”
Well, depending on how fundie she ends up being, and where she lies on the Kinsey scale, she might feel very regretful, or she might feel very angry at that horrible sinner for leading her into temptation that way.
I have mixed feelings about Kaitlin. She did take the coward’s way out; but really, consider her situation. Her parents might be even worse than Becky’s father. She might be a minor, in which case they could ship her off to a conversion camp any time they wanted to. I have a hard time condemning someone for cowardice when the alternatives are that bad; and it seems likely that honesty on her part would not have reduced Becky’s troubles one bit, aside from a little emotional support.
yeah, I’m sure that parental arm on Kaitlin’s shoulder has NOTHING to do with it… Seriously, it seems kind of logical that her parents told her to say that stuff or else. Kaitlin did a shitty thing to Becky yeah but she was protecting herself and trying to survive.
I remember reading Jeanette Winterson’s Oranges are not the Only Fruit in college: it’s autobiographical, and both of the author’s first lesbian crushes end similarly to Becky’s. Social pressure is a powerful thing.
I mentioned this in a previous comments thread, but think of Winston Smith in Room 101 in Nineteen Eighty-Four. (And Julia later admitted that she’d done the same.)
It made me think of Valerie and Evey in V for Vendetta (the book, not that POS movie that I will never watch). And what Valerie wrote about the choice Ruth made, and its consequences.
Well, there’s dealing with a totalitarian state, and then there’s dealing with a conservative university and possibly-totalitarian parents. You can escape the latter pair, eventually. It may be worthwhile to compromise with them, for a time, if the need is great enough. I don’t feel qualified to judge her.
I thought of V for Vendetta as well, and it’s appropriate both in terms of it in no small way being Moore’s reaction to Orwell’s book, not to mention certain political changes taking place in Britain at the time (the early eighties, at least at the beginning of the book). One of the disheartening things was that, when Moore finished the series in the late eighties, and wrote an afterword to the collection, he said that he no longer thought that it would take a nuclear war to send Britain into fascism. (One specific factor that he cited was Section 28; Moore and other comics creators did an anthology in protest. I quoted the end of Moore’s contribution, “The Mirror of Love”, above.)
As for Kaitlin, yeah, I can’t really judge her either. To use the Christian example, even Peter denied knowing Jesus three times before the dawn of Good Friday.
Didn’t really finish my thought in my first sentence above; I meant both in terms of V4V being a reaction to Orwell’s book, but also in terms of what you said about Valerie and Ruth, and Valerie’s letter, and its consequences, and not just for Evey.
So…if she is helping Becky get away from the family that tries to “ex-gay” her, how much till she realizes how shit she treated Ethan and apologizes?
See, the difference that Joyce would think is that she’s trying to fix Ethan with “love”, while Becky’s dad is trying to fix her using “abuse”.
Also, Ethan wants to be not-gay for his parents’ acceptance.
I mean, it’s not healthy, but Joyce doesn’t know that.
Like Robin said, their Relationship is very different from Becky’s Situation (and still very wrong -.-)
Becky is a Lesbian who accepts it but has others trying to force her to change.
Ethan is a Homosexual who doesn’t want to be one, so he actually reacts well to Joyce attempts at “fixing” him with their relationship no matter how misguided it is.
I remember he did mention he had dreams about having a Normal Husband/Wife/Kids Family … and being Gay kinda threw a wrench in that.
Though considering the context when Joyce said she feels “Save” with him I think after the event at the Party she actually deep down knows that she feels save with him because since he’s gay he won’t touch her (if it wasn’t even outright stated, I’m not sure).
So yeah Becky’s Situation is a case of typical Bigotry while the Ethan/Joyce Situation is a very special kind of screwed up <.<
Plus, she’s using him as a buffer from the things she’s afraid of.
Another big difference is power. Ethan has no reason to put up with Joyce if he doesn’t want to (and given how much he flirts around I doubt he plans for it to be a long term solution anyway). To walk away from your family is much harder
“Father knows best” my ass.
I’m reminded of the song from Tangled (Anyone remember that movie? I liked it) titled “Mother Knows Best” but then scold myself because of the different situations.
Whose situation is worse? YYOU DeCIADE
At least Becky’s parents didn’t make her go to Bob Jones University. Conversion therapy is mandatory to stay enrolled and they do it on-campus.
That place sounds like a hellhole and driving past it gives me the heebie jeebies
“You have a heebie jeebie scale, sir?”
“Yes, Carl. You are on it.”
Becky dad wanted to fix her so it looks she escaped before that happened…
So what would happen if Joyce called her own dad for help in this situation?
Not much good. He would (possibly after talking with his wife) call Becky’s father to deal with it because it’s best for Joyce not to be exposed to this kind of thing.
No, that would require different parents to deal with sensibly.
Man I was hoping for a light distraction from what I was doing
Well, this is getting way too real
Ross McIntyre, f**k you!
f**kyouf**kyouf**kyouf**kyouf**kyouf**kyouf**kyou!
Universities in the USA can inform parents of the students about their issues/grades etc.? That’s pretty f%^&d up system in my opinion.
Im pretty sure that if you are an adult person (18 y.o and above) all between you and university is confidential and up to you wether you share this information with anyone or not. At least that’s how it works in my country. If Uni gave out information about me to anyone without my consents, regardless of this person relation to me, it would form a solid ground for a lawsuit.
Becky’s dad look familiar…
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/009/333/bueno.jpg
Golli, When I was in college 30 years ago, my private colleges sent everything to the parents. My son goes to public university and he had to sign waivers if he wanted his parents to see his grades or have any access to his medical while he was at school (that is only if he is 18 or over. If the students are 17 or younger, their parents are still their guardians and have full access.)
Yeah, exactly what I thought. It’s kinda disgusting how the US treats these people as if they were kids. They are adults. If you can trust them to drive a car (and with that risk the lives of thousands of people on the road), and to send them away to live alone in some place they’ve never seen before, then you can trust them to do their own shit and to fucking drink a beer.
Goddamn that fucking country.
If they label homosexuality as indecency I think they can get away with reporting “disciplinary problems”… because that’s exactly the world we want to live in.
To me that just sounds terrifying. I am glad I went to a community college and lived with my grandparents. I was not remotely ready to live on my own till my mid-20s at least.
Wish I’d had Becky’s chutzpah at 18. Would have saved myself the grief of ten years in ex-gay “therapy”.
At least it wasn’t demon of homosexuality exorcism… some of the things they say and do to people is just…. you just do do those things to your fellow man. It ain’t right and I don’t care what that book of theirs says. Actually I do care, because above all else it says to love thy neighbor as thyself. And what I see them do all too frequently is far from love.
They hate their neighbor as they hate themselves. Par for the course.
I have friends who have been through those exorcisms.
Come to my part of Indiana, Becky. I’ll protect you. *comforting hug that blocks out all badness*
i find it sorta fucked up that joyce is becky’s childhood friend and she still thought of going to her dad about this situation. i mean, becky’s wording make it sound like he’s a fair bit of an abuser, and joyce may be naive but she’s not unperceptive. in book one she reasoned that the ryan situation could get her stuck back in la porte if her dad found out (which would have been a reasonable reaction of joyce dad’s, don’t get me wrong), and she should know how dramatic her church could be on the gay thing considering her own initial rejection of it, she could have figured out backy dad could have gone crusader on his own daughter over it. but hey, punchline
You must remember: As far as Joyce knows, homosexuality is something that can and should be fixed (remember Ethan?). There’s no reason Joyce wouldn’t have suggested calling Becky’s dad.
Well, we’ve seen how good Becky can be at not talking about things. I’d say it’s quite plausible that Joyce really doesn’t know what her home situation is like. Joyce’s family would still support her in a crisis, after all, even though she recently defied them over something they saw as sinful.
Plus, I suspect that Joyce is mentally slipping back into the context in which she knows Becky, at least a bit. That is, thinking in terms of family and homegroups rather than her new college friends.
Two very true things. It’s kinda disturbing how easy Becky lied through the whole day while a) on the run, b) building up to kiss Joyce and c) generally having the worst situation ever. That kind of lying doesn’t just happen. It takes practice. Says something ugly about her home life right there.
that makes a lot of sense, both of you. you’re right. also, just noticed i hadn’t considered how strong she has to be to have gone through this whole day without breaking. becky is TOUGH!
Oh yes! Becky – awesome in so many ways.
Sometimes you don’t know how horrible someone is until it’s too late. There are thousands of non-heterosexual children who thought they were outing themselves to good loving parents only to end up abused or thrown out for it.
My guess is that Joyce is a: too shocked to think clearly, and b: too naïve to think that a father wouldn’t love his child above anything else.
Maybe try Amber’s dad?
oh joyce she’s so ignorant yet so sweet but poor becky yikes hopefully everything turns out all right
yep, just what I thought…ran off with just the clothes on her back. Probably spent her last money on the bus to get to Joyce. Goddamn.
I did it when I was much younger than Becky. Freedom really is just another word for nothing left to lose.
Becky… still greatest character? Yes. We love Becky. Becky is the friend we all wish we had. It’s okay if Becky has a crush on us, and we can’t reciprocate. We will love Becky.
I wish I could change my vote to Greatest Character now. 🙁
No kidding. I loved her because she was engaging and friendly before. Now I just wanna hug her until she believes people love her because she’s Becky and not because she meets their expectations. And even if you can’t have romance with the person you want, you can still be loved by them.
Seconded
You can’t *remove* the old one, but if you delete the cookies you should be able to vote for Greatest
You know, hearing the words “fix you” in the context of MOGAI people being confronted by their parents has totally ruined that Coldplay song for me.
I can’t help but feel relieved that Joyce didn’t follow Becky to that Christian colege. That would have been her instead of Kaitlin there 🙁
“Call your dad. Dads know how to make things right”
Damn, I know a girl like that. She’s 22 and not a religious bigot.
I wish I could do that, and I’m 38. Now… I’m going to sound like king a-hole, but I’m going to defend Becky’s father for just a moment. His reaction was born of ignorance, and yes, bigotry. but it’s because the s/n is all f’ed up. When your religious teachings exclude the biological causes of sexual attraction, you tend to believe that it’s a ‘problem’ and thus something that can be ‘fixed.’ He made an error. A horrible, awful error, but he’s not a moustache-twirling villain like Amber’s gene donor. We don’t really have any indication that he’s abusive yet. Discipline is not always screaming, striking, or destroying someone. Sometimes it is the withdrawal of privileges. We really know almost nothing about him, other than his cartoonish behavior over in that other comic and the statement that he wanted to discipline or fix Becky. He may think he’s acting in Becky’s best interests based on his religious indoctrination. Hopefully, he can come around. I doubt he will, but it’s possible he will want to reconcile with his daughter, and will make an effort to understand her.
TL;DR Maybe he’s not bad, just ignorant.
I think the badness comes from what he does with that ignorance.
I would consider seeing your daughter as broken and in need of fixing based on that self imposed and maintained ignorance as abusive, personally.
From a modern viewpoint, it can be viewed that way. But insular communities such as fundamentalists don’t view it that way. Prayer and their god are the answers to any problem. Bad things come because there’s sin on earth, and you have not been ‘washed in the blood of the lamb.’ Spending time on your knees and begging your god to forgive you is supposed to fix all that’s broken. I suspect he genuinely loves his daughter, and that he doesn’t want to harm her. Thus his reaction would be understandable inside his community and completely incomprehensible outside. Having spent some time in that sort of community, I have a smidge of insight into the mindset. He wants her to go to heaven. If she doesn’t, he failed her and obviously didn’t love her enough. The holy book even tells him so.
Well, hell, that’s supposed to be our job. I know I have “made things right” for my daughters on occasion. “Fixing them” was never the answer.
To be fair, a lot of people rely on there parents even in there early adulthood, and it’s not uncommon to have your parents bail you out of a mess, such as being in debt or breaking a law of some kind.
Because while you may not live with them, in the back of most peoples minds, even if they know better, see there parents as being able to do anything, and while asking for help might wound your pride, you know you can count on them.
Unless they are Ross or Blaine or basically any of the terrible parents in dumbing of age.
My parents weren’t terrible, but I can’t imagine myself ever thinking they have a way of making things right.
One of my sister’s friends from high school grew up in a Mormon household, realized he was gay, and proceeded to do everything to hide it from his parents. He knew if they found out, he’d be disowned.
Because your religion is more important than loving/protecting your children. Becky…is in that situation. Because no matter what, she has no good choices available to her right now.
(Follow-up, my sister’s friend is doing fine, last I heard–living in San Francisco with a long-term partner and financially stable)
“Son, I am disappoint” Dad has become a Dumbingverse character!
Enlist, Becky. Be all you can be.
Still a big problem with sexual assault in the military, FYI.
I am sure Becky would fit in well at that school, after all, a lot seem to have the same taste in dating as her 😀
The “somebody else’s dad” they should call is Walky’s mum, who knows the Dean & probably can get Becky enlisted at IU. It’s only four weeks after the start of the first semester, after all.
I fear that money would still be an issue … but yeah that would be the best possible solution.
Are there LGBT scholarships? That seems like a think that should exist.
LGBT scholarships are a thing, but only at certain schools. And usually transfer students don’t get merit money to state schools unless they have transfer specific scholarships
http://glbt.indiana.edu/Scholarships%20and%20Financial%20Support.php
There are some. If it hadn’t been for the LGBTQ scholarship at my alma mater (Metropolitan State-St. Paul), I couldn’t have graduated.
Waiting for more!
Having just read up on the horrors of Ex-Gay Conversion “Therapy”… she definitely did the right thing running away.
Nooo, the blue panels are not friendly and happy and full of Becky-kissies any longer. They are full of Becky-tears and Ross who is a jerkhole. GET OUT OF THE BLUE PANELS, ROSS.
Adorable Joyce is still edging closer. She’s almost on hugging distance now.
I repeat. If only there was a future president and a superhero with daddy issues and a gay best friend on the grounds tonight. HRM. I SAID, IF ONLY THERE WAS A FUTURE PRESIDENT AND SUPERHERO WHO CAN COME AND HELP RIGHT NOW PLEASE!!!
Or maybe a Cheerleader/Problem-Solver? Oh wait she’s probably still involved in hanky-panky right about now.
Oh crud, a 3way I might actually support! Bad idea, me, Bad idea!
I’m not sure sexy lesbian suicide pact is the logical next step for Becky
God damn it Ross.
Holy fuckng shit.
You know, presumably, by the time most people are in college, they are legal adults. Could this be not so much a case of running away as spontaneously moving out? Without packing? Or telling anyone?
Legal adults, yeah. Able to make a living and provide a roof for themselves, probably not so much.
Call amazing girl, I am sure she wouldn’t mind “fixing” someone elses dad for them.
Ross didn’t want his daughter to stay in a school that didn’t accept her the way she was.
#RoseColoredGlasses
Right, and when he said “fix” her, he didn’t mean “make her straight,” he meant “fix her up! With another girl!” #optimism
He wanted to help fix her up with Joyce and called her parents, but Becky thought it was embarrassing and went to see Joyce on her own and borrowed her phone to see if the parents had called already. That’s what this whole drama is about, right?
#RoseColoredGlassesExtraStrength
No, probably more like get her a surgical strap-on.
#NotSureThatsMuchBetter
Hello Mark Antony and Cleopatra — the King and Queen of De Nile!!
De Nile??? Noooo, it’s not even a river, just a little creek. Look, my feet are hardly wet…
#RossColoredGlasses
Nooooo – those make everything look like shit
Well so much for benefit of the doubt… Butthole, indeed.
To paraphrase Calvin from “Calvin and Hobbes”,
“I’ve got an idea for a TV sitcom called, ‘Father Knows Zilch’.”
Oh gahd, this story keeps getting worse… Group hug for Becky!
Call Sierra’s dad, he’s pretty cool.
Yeah, maybe Sierra’s parents have always secretly wanted a second daughter? It wouldn’t hurt to try Ó_Ò
So the storyline I choose to start fully reading this strip is one wit emotional distress and Joyce’s worldview being challenged?
So basically the perfect story.