Discussion (211) ¬
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Phil Lewis @phillewis.bsky.social ⋅ 14hDavid M Willis! @damnyouwillis.bsky.social ⋅ 8d
David M Willis! @damnyouwillis.bsky.social ⋅ 8d
Rabbi Danya Ruttenberg @theradr.bsky.social ⋅ 21d
Gwen Snyder is uncivil @gwensnyder.bsky.social ⋅ 2d
Ash Parrish @adashtra.bsky.social ⋅ 3d
Katie @katiestp.bsky.social ⋅ 3d
Hunter S Schafer @bolt451.bsky.social ⋅ 4d
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(he/him)
⚧
Wow, Malaya. Wow. (Panel 1)
Well, she DID describe Lucy as being horrible to live with. But that’s because of personality friction more than anything else.
Lucy was horrible to live with because Malaya’s horrible. As characters, I prefer Malaya to Lucy, but in the situation…it’s not like Malaya even tried to make it work.
She applied for a transfer on the first day, so yeah, no attempt.
Malaya is disagreeable in many ways, but Lucy pretty clearly is the more problematic of the two as far as being a roommate goes. While everyone has different preferences, the *typical* considerations for a good roommate require the roommate to be clean, responsible, and to /leave you the hell alone when you want them to/. A respect for property and boundaries is a pretty core expectation to have of roommates.
Malaya may have an abrasive personality, but Lucy can’t manage to abide by one of the core expectations of being a roommate. That’s not necessarily to say Lucy is a worse roommate- choosing between “I don’t give an eff and I’m snarky as shit” and “I’m going to be rude to you but excuse it by veiling it in smiles” really is a matter of personal preference- but Lucy is the one who seems to be most intensely ignoring their obligations as a roommate.
In short, criticizing Malaya is fine, and there are circumstances where she can be considered a worse roommate than Lucy, but “Lucy was horrible to live with because Malaya’s horrible” is just nonsense. Lucy’d be horrible for a lot of people, and not just with intense personality types like Malaya and Billie.
Besides, Malaya has a cute pet to distract you, which massively offsets her flaws (..right?).
Meanwhile, Lucy has nails-on-a-chalkboard-like morning screeching, which drags you painfully out of bed and fills you with murderous thoughts. Call Malaya what you will, but her description of Lucy as a “Devil” seems completely fair.
Please say “sike”.
Malaya and her 80-grit personality, vs cinnamon roll and eternal ray of sunshine Lucy. Sounds like the setup for a sitcom to me!
I mean, given how long the comic has been running, you could easily make a decade-long spin-off just about Malaya and Lucy’s time as roommates together…
I wonder how many times she’s had that exchange with Lucy.
(And Lucy just lets it go, getting more points from me.)
I don’t know if Lucy’s letting it go or just ignoring Malaya’s verbal abuse because she realizes that it drives Malaya insane.
Ooh, that too.
Pretty much can sum up Malaya’s personality as “shithead” so, not surprising.
Hey, if you can have ‘your own personal Jesus’, then you can have ‘your own personal Satan’. Malaya is, I’ll say it again, very happy with Sal as a roommate, who gives her her needed doses of hostility and abrasiveness. She has absolutely negative desire to return to the bland vanilla milquetoastness of Lucy.
Also worth considering that Malaya really just wants people she dislikes to leave her alone, and Lucy constantly tried to engage with Malaya despite Malaya’s clear signaling for her to fuck off.
Not saying Malaya ISN’T terrible—that’s kinda her thing—but I can understand why she’d be extra-Malaya about hating Lucy as a roommate.
Walky should be good at running, since he often seems to be running away from things.
Hard to run with your foot in your mouth
Walky never runs! Reginald the Duke of Thingley runs.
Indeed! Running is clearly not manly, which he overwhelmingly is.
*plays Lenny Kravitz’ “Where Are We Running?” on the hacked Muzak*
Ooh-wee ooh-wee ooh-wee…
While there may be no shame in running from gender, the repercussions on one’s mental health make it non-recommendable. XD
Running from gender has been, like, the one good thing I’ve done for my mental health, so YMMV.
As an Official Trans(tm) I can confirm that along with “high-powered rifle” and/or” fiddle contest”, running from gender is one of the top healthy responses.
(I personally went with “high stakes children’s card game over a bottomless abyss” but YMMV.)
Gender-fluid person who ran away from gender roles checking in!
Well, at least I can take comfort in knowing I’m in good company.
A fiddle contest against gender?
Yes.
“The Devil Went Down to Georgia” style, I assume?
My Gender went down to Georgia
She was lookin’ for a pronoun to steal
I don’t run from gender because I have low stamina, I mostly just hide under a cardboard box like Solid Snape from the Harry Gear Solid games
I’ve never really played MGS, but I think I would probably play a Solid Snape overhaul mod.
Potions liquid tho
I think that depends on whose gender you’re running from, someone else’s or your own.
Gender is an endurance hunter. You can run but you have to keep running.
I gave up with running a while ago.
I don’t so much run from gender as do one of those montages where someone gets a taxi, then goes to the airport, gets on a plane, etc.
I don’t so much run from gender as curl up in the fetal position and cry deeply while cursing the sadistic gods that gave me this eldritch abomination of a body.
OoooOOOhhHH! Are there… tentacles??
I can’t speak for Chris2315, but in my case, tentacles would be an improvement.
No, but there’s ass hair. Just… why?
. . .Well this is a strip. Not sure how much of Malaya’s dialog to take seriously or not and I laugh and emphasize with Walky wanting to run away here. Mostly because I know that I am not educated nor well spoken enough to talk about the more in-depth topics of gender without making a fool of myself.
Also Lucy continues to ba an absolute cinnamon role.
…Those are definitely some words.
“Cinnamon role” was Barbara Bain’s old job on “Mission: Impossible.”
Walky, you ain’t helping your case that you aren’t a child if you say out loud that you want to run away to avoid talking about gender.
That has less to do with being a child and more to do with being a coward and/or ignoramus.
Walky’s met her like once. I think it’s fair to not want to dive into that topic with her.
Granted, he’s met Lucy like 2-3 times, but y’know, in comic time, that’s the basis for close friendships in some situations on this campus.
It’s not so much the fact he’s running away from the topic that’s the problem. I get it. I really do. That topic can be something that some people wouldn’t be comfortable talking about. The problem is that he says it out loud that he’s running away. At least make some excuse to leave.
Walky didn’t say he was running, Lucy suggested it.
OTOH Walky is smart enough to recognize danger.
Walky knows damn well when he’s out of his comfort zone.
(There’s non-stained clothes, few cartoons, and no Nachitos.)
Walky actually expressed confusion at the idea of running away from gender.
Fwooomph!
Careful Lucy, Walky may be oblivious but… oh who am I kidding, you basically have to kiss the boy to make him realize you are flirting. That or throw an action figure at his head, really speak to him on his own level.
Did I accidentally assume everyone’s gender again?
Oh do NOT get me started
I’m confused. Malaya looks at her body and DOESN’T see a woman?
I think what’s meant is that her body is what’s making the argument (to her) that she is a woman. Like, if Lucy’s “…Probably?” is taken as “You’re not sure?” then Malaya’s reply could be like, “Yeah, but then, look at me.”
That was my interpretation as well.
Now, explain the alt-text please.
If Lucy and Walky flee, he doesn’t have to continue writing the conversation.
Basically, the author wants to run away from this conversation, too. It can be a scary one, esp if this isn’t your generation.
Bodies =/= gender, so she may be in a period of questioning her gender identity vs biological sex… and then having societal norms imposed on her, assuming that she must accept she is a woman because of her body parts…
Malaya doesn’t seem like she’s questioning her gender identity. This seemed to me like her basically just going, “I’m too hot to be a man.”
That phrasing assumes that the person saying it (and possibly everybody else) is exclusively into women.
Internalized Male Gaze is awkward sometimes.
i dunno. it seems like she is struggling with gender constructs as a whole, considering how she is treating walky
I read it as her not really caring about her own gender (“I don’t really care, but I look like a woman so might as well be one.”); and she was mocking Walky for being childish and un-manly (“You’re not a man, you’re just a child.”)
Many non-binary/agender folx have those feels about their genders though. And with regard to Walky, she made a comment about him being unmanly mostly based on his physical appearance, because she has 0 context to him acting childish other than one phrase – they met 30 seconds earlier. She is therefore judging him and later herself based on what society has taught her about the supposed gender binary and stereotypical physical gender appearances.
This doesn’t read to me like struggling at all. Reads like very stereotypical takes on gender. She’s being sarcastic with the probably and using it to point out how attractive she is. While bashing Walky for not being manly enough.
And also it sounds like Malaya’s typical “eh, whatever“. i guess she’s just not bothered with it.
(which, as those of us with gender/body dysphoria know, is kind of a privilege)
hmm. i didn’t read the probably as sarcasm, but as confusion. sarcasm makes sense and changes the rest of the strip for me now and now i need to see where this goes next, but it will probably cut to another scene…
Then again, cis people don’t usually describe themselves as “yeah, I’m probably [insert gender], going by what my body looks like.”
I don’t know, I’ve met a number of cis people who, when asked how they know what gender they are, respond with something akin to, “Well, I mean…look at me!” If you haven’t spent a lot of time thinking about what your gender is and how you know that, it makes sense to go to aspects like that.
And a lot of people’s internal sense of gender is muddled enough that that can be the deciding factor. Especially since it’s so much easier to go with it than try and fight it if you can’t tell how much there is to fight for.
I think on average cis people care less about their gender than trans gender people.
I mean if you don’t care whether you belong to group A or B but people have been telling you your whole life you belong to group A and a good number of people will punish for saying you belong on group B. Chances are you will claim group A and not think about it.
l
I’d agree they think about it less, but I’m not sure they care about it less. They’re just more confident about it and don’t question it. Because their internal sense of gender matches their assigned gender. No need to think about it.
Overwhelmingly though, they care which group they belong to. Look how many insults are aimed at challenging that. A boy who isn’t perceived as manly enough will be called a girl in various increasingly nasty way. Likely the same on the female side, though I don’t have personal schoolyard experience there.
It is likely that some people who might be non-binary or gender-fluid in some fashion might just go with the flow and never actually realize it. Much like some bisexuals might just stick with societally approved partners and never realize they could be attracted to the same gender as well.
Personally, when I did start to think about it, I quickly remembered the times people thought I was a guy and how much it bothered me. So, like, it seems pretty clear I’m not a guy at least? I don’t like the thought of not being seen as a real woman either, although that’s more of an “I want to at least belong *somewhere*” feeling. I think. I feel like a bit of an impostor at times, having mostly guy friends and being surrounded by stuff that assumes I’m a guy, and having fallen prey to some of the “not like other girls” BS that sounds like a compliment when you’re young and naive.
I sympathize deeply with Malaya here. At this point I’ve pretty much given up and just call myself gender-queer. I sort of struggle with those [M] [F] boxes because neither one fits? Buuuuuut then again I’ve given birth twice so. ><
Giving birth doesn’t define you as being female. Trans men and nonbinary people also give birth!
Giving birth doesn’t define or restrict your gender. I know a transman that gave birth to his daughter and he is still a man so don’t feel forced by the idea of what genders are ‘supposed’ to do lead you to confine yourself as more feminine than you actually feel you are. If neither box fits then neither fits.
Cats only sit where they fit and feel comfortable even if that is in a large jar or bowl regardless of where people expect them to sit. There could still be a large bowl that works better for you than boxes ever did and that’s fine. Using a larger container than necessary because you’ve given up on finding the precise right small one is cool too. That’s like a cat using a giant dog bed instead of a smaller cat bed – if it works for you, it works for you.
Yess, cat metaphors. Here’s another one that goes with boxes / labels:
As any cat owner (or rather, cat servant) knows, there is a BIG difference between being put into a box or getting into a box yourself!
Yeah, one of those involves blood.
She isn’t questioning her gender, she is bragging about how hot she is.
In the past, having a body like that would have suggested that she is of the female gender, but in the current year, there is a whole spectrum of genders that could have a form like Malaya’s.
^truth ♡
True, but I don’t think that’s where Malaya’s going with it.
Clearly, today is “Opposite Day”, at least for Malaya.
Lucy *innocent grab Walky and keep him close*
/me looks at Lucy’s hands in the last panel.
It seems when Lucy finds a boy she likes she’s anything but shy.
A real groper no less.
Is the Lapis avatar new?
It is, I only got into Steven Universe last year, only had to endure one long hiatus instead of many hiatuses like most SU fans have.
I started watching right after this DofA (http://www.dumbingofage.com/2017/comic/book-7/02-everything-youve-ever-wanted/meltdown/) and it really took.
I got into the Animorphs pretty much after it was over.
On the one hand its great being able to watch read them all at once on the other hand it meant that I didn’t have people who were interested when I was.
I got into Firefly after the movie and I knew it was over .. bad idea
I saw the movie first, and after that I ordered the Firefly series from Netflix, back when you got actual DVDs. (I wore an onion on my belt…but never mind.)
The first episode on the DVD was the one that was originally supposed to be the pilot, and it was pretty good. The next episode was the actual pilot, and it was…disappointing.
It was like seeing the theater release of Watchmen AFTER seeing the director’s cut. What was there wasn’t bad, but I realized all the really good stuff had been taken out.
Shoulder and upper arm? Not sure I’d call that groping.
If one wasn’t paying attention to skin tone, one might not realize at first that the hand by Walky’s left hip is Walky’s and not Lucy’s.
what the hell’s even happening anymore
Everything’s really broken, isn’t it?
Walky, you’re taking a Gender Studies course. This really isn’t helping your claims to being a smart boy in everything but math.
He ALSO tries to cultivate the persona of being a laid back goofball (works) AND manly (kinda sorta works…. if you are willing to subscribe to his ‘ewww, cooties’ middle-school idea of masculinity), so there’s lot of conflicting interests going on.
I mean, if he REALLY was worried about getting in trouble, he could always, like, shut up for ten seconds. But he seems to be physically incapable of that.
It’s tough when you know you should shut up, but your mouth just keeps yammering and digging you deeper into the hole.
Story of his life.
To be fair, in the old days there was only two known genders but like Pokemon, so many new genders have shown up, at last count there was at least 63 different genders and that number might rise even further.
I’m not sure if you’re joking or not.
there was an article in the year 2000 citing 63 genders; however, it also conflated gender identity with sexual attraction
Yeah, that’s part of why I’m not sure if this person was joking or not, because every part of that sentence is wrong but it’s also wrong in a way that might be deliberate.
That is just not how it works, nonbinary gender traditions have been around for longer than Western civilization
I don’t recall 60-plus gender types in Pokémon. /s
Separate note: love the Lapis avatar.
I wish there were. Gotta catch them all!
But there are some genderneutral pokémon, which is cool.
Monster, Water1, Water2, water 3, bug, flying, amorphious, field, fairy, grass, dragon,
11
All of these can theoretically be in another group or not.
66
All of these can either be male or female
132
Plus Ditto, plus needs ditto plus legendary
135
135 genders in pokemon
I mean I think something like Gender Studies is something like Film Studies or Religious Studies. You can understand things in the most basic and objective terms and still not understand the nuances of that subject. I took Art History for 3 years and I still can’t tell you anything objective about art.
Well yeah, the whole point of taking art history is to be able to say less and less objectively about art
can’t tell if walky’s face in last panel is discomfort from conversation, or slanty eyes towards being touched by lucy
What if Lucy actually is the devil …
Half the comment section: “VINDICATION!”
On the level of Satania from Gabriel Dropout.
“Its always the one you least suspect!”
I don’t remember what her last name is, but I’m pretty sure she’s not Lucy Fer.
It could be her middle name? Like, Lucy Fern Glenn.
No, Lucy is the daughter of the devil.
DOA9: There’s No Shame in Running
Running of Age.
DoA Book 9: You! The Devil!
Is…
Is Lucy fucking with Malaya on purpose? And I don’t mean the boinking kind.
It would be kind of cool if she was. But I don’t think she actually is. She is kind of just the person who lets people be mean to her even when she is perfectly nice to them.
Malaya is just so pointlessly awful and willfully stupid and I love her
…
… okay, assuming Sal’s fine with it (she might be, now) and Walky and Amber are fine with it, I’m shipping those two. But if not, Lucy/Walky is adorable and I’m perfectly fine with that ship too. But Lucy shouldn’t just be a backup/rebound….
…. okay I need some way to flip to the back of the book and check the answers.
Gender is a cryptid – I don’t believe in it, but a lot of people seem pretty convinced it’s real.
“Gender is too real! I saw it once in the parking lot behind Denny’s!”
If gender’s not real, how do you explain this? *holds up a grainy picture of a bear* Yeah, checkmate.
And that works for both common uses of the word bear, too!
Unlike the Sasquatch*, which is definitely real and well-documented, gender is pretty much objectively a myth.
*This includes related species, like Satchelsquatch, Sanksquatch, Sunksquatch, Marsquatch, Firesquatch, Sanglosquatch, Megalosquatch, Squatchsash, Slouchsquatch and the now-extinct Danglesquatch.
What about the Swampsquatch?
Gender is, at least, real in the way money and God are real. They’re social constructs that matter a lot and that people collectively have constellations of beliefs about which enable them to act as though the constructs have independent reality.
Like, not everyone sees money the same way, or uses it the same way, but it’s pretty straightforward to use it to buy ordinary stuff. And there are lots of different ideas about God, but they tend to cluster around a very powerful intelligent entity who cares how you behave and who (at least in most modern Christian religions) wants you to be happy.
Personally, I’m a man, just like I have X dollars in my savings account. I know people who are genderqueer. I know that in different countries, “being a man” has different meanings (and I wouldn’t fit some of them). And if I went hiking in the jungle, my savings account would be pretty meaningless too. But in this culture, I’m a man. And, like God and money, gender is part of the cultural DNA – it’s part of how my (U.S. white middle class) culture works.
Come to think of it, race is also part of how my culture works. And I don’t believe in the independent reality of race (nor of God). But if someone asks, I say I’m white.
Language, too.
I like this explanation. Thank you. I am stealing it for teaching purposes, is this okay?
Really got comparison!
I believe that both society and biology forms how we view ourselves, including gender. The world is too complicated for it to be just one influence.
Wow, Malaya is ready to bolt when she sees Lucy. She had a similar reaction the first time Joyce showed up. I know Walky joked about them all being vampires in the faaace of Joyce’s sunniness, but in Malaya’s case it seems to be literary true.
David Willis, you are a god-damned hero.
I am reminded of similar conversations I had at university. Glad now that I appreciated it then.
…To be quite honest, my gender is running from me.
I mean… I CAN ship Walky and Malaya. I shouldn’t but I can. Or with Lucy. Or Lucy with Malaya. Or all 3. Though I’ll still die on the Walky and Amber hill.
I’m a RWBY fan. I can ship *any* combination of characters.
I relate quite a lot to last panel Walky.
Malaya is how a cis man would act in a woman’s body.
I like to think I’m a cis man, but if I were wearing Malaya’s body, I would sure make the most of it.
Please refrain from wearing the bodies of others, as this constitutes a gross violation of their personal space.
Also, possibly murder.
Anime has shown that it’s basically to touch your own breasts. Your Name shows it.
What’s wrong with touching your own breasts? We’ve all done it.
I touch my own breasts all the time!
also, my breasts touch ME, which i wish they wouldn’t do
Walky and Amber till the day I die, they can go a long way to not just help healing process, but they go like peanut butter and jelly
I wish I could run away from my own body, but it keeps staring at me when I stare at a mirror…
Also, this is some deep gender talk, Willis.
I had doubts about my gender in my early-mid 20’s. Even had a girlfriend and everything. And a teeny tiny part of me still wishes I was born female, but the rest of me is like “Nah, life’s pretty awesome as you are.” so like…even someone who’s pretty much all the way cis-gendered white male can go through a doubting period of “is this what I should have always been?”
My heart goes out to everyone that questions, even for a second what or who they are. You’ll figure it out, just give it time and don’t jump to conclusions. Because no matter what you are on the outside, you may still doubt yourself on the inside, even if you’ve changed outwardly.
If this place had upvotes you would have mine.
Yes absolutely!
I don’t really trust people who have never ever questioned themselves
I get the people identifying with Walky, here, but the one I’m actually identifying with intensely in this comic is Malaya.
For a long time, I’ve known that I’m not male. I don’t know exactly what gender I am, but I know I’m not that. But then I look down at my body, and it’s about as male as they come. Physically, I have all the signs of a high-testosterone male.
(I’m also a probably-asexual who simultaneously has a fairly high libido, which is its own weird not-actually-a-contradiction, that sometimes *feels* like it should be because bullshit internalized gender ideas.)
Every now and then, I wonder if I should maybe transition to female? But then I get worried that I’m misinterpreting myself, or if that presenting as female would feel wrong too but not as much.
Gender dysphoria is a bongo.
Oh hello there, myself. Didn’t expect to see you there.
It’s a ride, for sute
personally i’m deadset on Wrong Too But Not As Much, coz, you know, wrong too? but like, not as much
Yeah… That makes a lot of sense. And I appreciate you saying it.
I still feel anxious about it, tho.
Try it out. Preferably in a good queer space where people will be supportive.
You can try out all the things you can change back, first – clothing, makeup, shaving, asking people to call you a new name and new pronoun, …
if all that feels right, you can think further about how you want to appear and whether you need any changes for that. Transition isn’t a snap of your fingers (in most cases, luckily), so you can slowly test the waters.
I know a lot of people (including myself) who are transitioning in a sort of binary way even though being genderqueer / genderfluid / * … just because, yes, less wrong. And, in my case, ending up feeling more right than i thought it would. Although i’m not done figuring myself out.
Yeah, that’s fair.
Personally I’m just running. I hear there’s no shame in it.
WTF.
Sorry
Not so much on the asexuality here, but hells yes on the rest. I suspect there’s more of this than one may expect and that this is the sort of comic to see it in the wild BTL. The fact that I’m posting this rather than nodding internally and moving on is similarly sociologically interesting. Thank you for voicing this and, well, allowing me to respond.
Huh, interesting random gravatar too. This place is dangerous!
“a probably-asexual who simultaneously has a fairly high libido”
I am really curious about how that works. So if you don’t mind explaining it to a stranger on the internet that would be pretty cool.
wait i actually love lucy what the fuck
That seems normal. I mean there was a whole TV show about that.
Well done
*Looks at alt-text*
“Run, cartoonist! Run!”
Malaya calls Lucy the Devil.
Yet another reason why I can’t stand Malaya.
Oh no. I broke my eyes. I started thinking that Malayas nose was her mouth and now I cant stop!
I want the cute nose back, brain!
Huh. I look down and see bits I never asked for. *shrug*
Suddenly, a Carla appears?
I am walking here. I try to avoid this topic as much as possible xD. Mostly because my opinions are controversial and I dont want to offend anybody
Walky* fucking auto correct
Step aside folks, the best character has returned
Fuckface not in frame.
This strip is great on so many levels, conversational timing, expressions, personalities, deep philosphical ideas, and…. can i say how wonderful it is to have a strip where all the characters shown are people of color, and not even a topic in the story. Whoo-hoo!
lol, I just noticed: technically, Walky is the devil in this strip. He brought Lucy over there, so he is, quite literally, Lucyfer.
Good one.
The term ‘nonbinary woman’ also exists, which Malaya could be. I doubt she really cares though.
“I don’t care” is a valid nonbinary identity, I should know
Of course. But I meant that Malaya probably doesn’t care about examining/identifying her gender at all, even identifying as nonbinary.
I feel Malaya on that last frame, but from the opposite gender. I’m probably a man, but then I look down and I’m like “well, I find this hard to argue with.” I’m just a pretty feminine one in the end.
Malaya, it doesn’t work that way. Possessing breasts and a vagina doesn’t automatically make you a girl.
That said, I love everyone in this strip and I am dead.
I kinda think Lucy being evil would be a fun twist.
Aybe not structurally, but it’d be neat to see a reverse Joyce.
Nice and kind. But underneath, a manipulative schemer and demon.
I think Mary was supposed to be evil Joyce.
The last frame. My favorite drawing of Malaya.
Is Lucy going to be a regular fixture because I like her. Also, I wanna see her react to teen titans go. Get on it Willis
she has a teen titans go poster on her wall over her bed
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2017/comic/book-8/02-this-is-the-way-that-we-love/goodmorningworld/
as of this writing, teen titans go came out when she was 12, so, uh
*gag*
So what does her generation nerd rage about?
I don’t remember what Lucy did to merit that much hate. Was sort of sunny and optimistic? That HELLSPAWN!! (??)
I’d classify that as “mildly frustrating” at most, and seems like a polite “hey I need a little non-engaging time”.