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You see, first she posted as Ana a comment that was pre-written based on seeing the comic on Patreon a day early. Then she read the alt-text, switched accounts to the appropriate name, and replied to herself as an additional followup to reply to the alt-text.
XCOM Enemy Unknown/Within is a GREAT game; can’t wait for XCOM2 this year! (unfortunately it invalidates the story of Enemy Within. XCOM2 goes on the premise that we lost the fight barely halfway through Enemy Unknown)
So, which class for which character? I mean Ruth is a shoe in for an assault-specced Ranger, so she can specialize in removing alien femur-analogs, and Dina is a stealth Ranger, dedicated to appearing out of nowhere, causing ADVENT troopers to mutter ‘Clever Girl’ in their bizzare dialect before slicing them open with her sword and vanishing again…
I’m torn between making Becky a member of the science staff or making her a sniper that works with Dina.
I was thinking her working together with Dina to devastate advent troopers and liens – maybe an Demolitions specialized Grenadier would work, I’d need to see how they synergise with Rangers.
But yeah…. given her lack of subtlety, match her with an exosuit and you’ve got an OOTT wrecking ball tossing and launching explosives everywhere throwing around broken alien bodies like ninepins. That could work.
I’m just imaging her banter, like if a Viper constricted her –
“AL-ready-ggg-taken!”
Aw, I got excited for nothing. That’s not even a blip on the nightmare-ometer.
It is a good reminder to catch up on that comic, though, so thanks for that.
I kind of wanted to see the rest of the conversation between Sarah, and Dina. On the other hand, I’ve been wanting Leslie to get involved in the Becky situation for a while.
Clearly, Leslie realizes that Joyce isn’t being entirely truthful. I hope she pursues this, and manages to draw Joyce out on the matter. Becky’s living situation needs to be addressed, because the current arrangement is not sustainable for the long term.
I think Leslie should have tried pressing a bit more, if she was direct in offering help then Joyce would realize she isn’t trying to hurt her or Becky.
It’s hard. If you push too much, the student will refuse to share anything else and may refuse resources you push their way in the future. It’s a lot about trying to get enough information to get the best resources that can help and then make them available for the student if they’re interested. I mean, I need to refresh my coffee, if they happen to walk away, then what can I say?
I think it’s more of an issue of how she approached Joyce on this. Joyce is feeling very wary of authority in general right now (completely understandable, I tend to assume the worst of any and all authority figures until proven otherwise for my own reasons), and here’s Leslie, an authority figure, essentially interrogating her about a situation that Joyce knows will at best get Becky homeless if discovered.
Maybe a better approach would have been to offer help, then ask questions? Like, “Hey, Joyce, I don’t know if your friend is taken care of, but if they’re not, I know some people who can help them out. [Local org] has a fund for tacking care of kids in that sort of situation, or if your friend isn’t comfortable with that, I know a few people who could put them up. Are they okay?”
(oh gosh I just realized my tendency to perseverate over and over-analyze the hell out of social situations I screwed up is bleeding over into literary analysis of this comic argh)
I thought the same thing, actually. Instead of asking questions, Leslie should have led with “I have access to resources”, or at least when the questions backfired, instead of letting Joyce leave, tell her “wait, the reason I’m asking is”
Leslie might have legetimately thought that since she also had friends to whom shitty homophobia happened, and told it to the whole class, Joyce would’ve jumped in the solidarity wagon and been able to tell the difference with “regular” adults. That’s part of what made Joyce realize that gay is okay, after all. So, really, I don’t think the issue here is all that much about how Leslie said things.
Except for the fact that she seems to probe about Joyce’s own orientation and feelings towards her friend, and that’s what making Joyce uncomfortable — because she knows Becky has feelings for her.
No, she’s uncomfortable because if Becky is staying in the dorms, she’s breaking the rules. And if she’s breaking the rules, she’ll get kicked out and homeless. Hence Joyce’s focus, not on ‘I’m not like that,’ but instead on ‘that’d be against the rules.’
I read it more like Joyce feels responsible for Becky’s safety (don’t have time to archive-binge to find them but I’m sure in at least two strips she’s specifically said she will protect Becky), and is taking that to the extreme of “only *I* can be responsible for Becky’s safety.” Guilt, whether it’s justified guilt or not, can be a very strong motivator and she might be trying to put most if not all of the burden of getting Becky through this on herself.
part of me suspects she will end up staying with the teacher another part of me doesn’t want her to since it would be harder to spend time with friends on every side.
During Leslie’s group activity, Roz teamed up with a Jen and the alt-text suggested it was a cameo. So s/he’s practically a tertiary cast member already. Let’s hope the character isn’t wearing a red shirt.
I’m around but honestly, I’m not the same guy I was when I first started reading these comics. Far too often it seems what I say sparks some sort of argument or something and that’s no fun. I mostly just check the comic out of force of habit at this point.
I was expecting many comics ago that they went to Leslie and now that it could happen… complete rejection from Joyce… sniff there goes my dreams D:
Did Leslie used “they” as a genderneutral pronoun?
How can Joyce not know that Leslie would be on the side of someone with Becky’s story? On the other hand, Leslie might have started by saying that if Becky needs resources she can help out, rather than starting out with the questions.
Leslie is still a teacher, an employee of the university, and is an authority figure at a time when Joyce is questioning her unwavering faith in authority figures.
Otoh, right, so asking if Becky is hiding out in Joyce’s room first thing, not a great move. (Tho Leslie might have at least told Joyce that its not her job to enforce housing regs or rat out students who violate them.) Otoh, Leslie was an authority figure who was using her position as teacher to subvert Joyce’s faith in the Homophobic authorities of her yout.
Yeah, but a student may not believe that, especially if they have a history of being ratted out by teachers who said they weren’t here to rat them out. At this point, Joyce’s last encounter with an adult authority figure involved a gun being pointed at her head and a sprained wrist, so it’s understandable that she’d be feeling extra protective of Becky and a lot less trusting.
Heavensrun, Cerberus: I am surprised that you both say that Joyce perceives all “authority figures” as a monolithic/undifferentiated group even at this point. I would have thought that Leslie would have disrupted that view when she caused Joyce some serious cognitive dissonance re how badly so many lgbt kids are treated by their parents and churches: authority figure vs authority figure. But, I am thinking on what you’re saying, not trying to refute it.
I’m not so sure it’s a matter of all authority figures being the same overall group, more that she’s just now adapting to not viewing authority figures like parents and officials as universally positive or trustworthy. Like, she’s found out her own parents suck and she’s found out Becky’s dad really sucks and she’s learned that there’s good reasons to keep secrets from authorities. Whether or not she sees Leslie differently, she’s probably much more wary about authority and that is a major life change for her.
No, my point is that she -did- perceive authority figures as an undifferentiated group, and one largely beyond reproach, until recent events taught her that you can have a gun pointed at your head and your best friend stolen away (apparently forever) by the nice man that took you to six flags when you were a kid. Then she found out that her parents, (her mom, anyway) who were the ones she trusted the most,are kinda on his side in the matter.
Consider also that she used to take apparent authority figures on faith – e.g., her using Leslie’s gender studies lecture as an excuse to like a secular cartoon aimed at boys. Where authority figures conflicted, she used to take the answer she liked more. Also going to the Bible to reassure herself she wasn’t damning herself when she started hiding Becky.
You’ll notice she hasn’t studied the Bible much to find justification for her ongoing rebellion against her parents anymore, and that used to be the ultimate authority to her.
Finally, remember that Joyce has a tendency to see things in black and white – she’s learning that shades of grey exist but it’s hard for her to think in those terms, still. So if one authority figure can be a royal ass, and other authority figures back him up on it, then all authority figures are not to be trusted. Joyce is reacting to Leslie as if Leslie recently betrayed her trust in a fundamental level – but it’s not her trust in Leslie, the person that’s been broken, it’s her trust in Leslie, the authority figure.
I think Joyce will probably learn that some authority figures can be trusted at some point, it’s just going to take a while and a lot of work for her trust to be re-earned and for the existence of shades of grey on this issue, too, to cement itself in her brain.
As someone with an unfortunate amount of experience lying to college officials and breaking rules, for somewhat similar reasons as Joyce, I absolutely sympathize with her believing that no employee of the university is worth trusting, no matter how nice.
It won’t be too difficult for Leslie to find out who Joyce’s ‘friend’ is.
It’s not like Becky is exactly shy. The whole dorm (except Ruthless) knows about her.
Maybe Leslie could approach Becky directly.
If it isn’t already too late.
If I remember right, technically Ruthless DOES know about Becky (Billie did tell her “Boyfriend” she’s staying with, I think after she let Becky have her bed), she just “doesn’t know yet” officially – She’s had no other information telling her Becky’s sleeping in Billie’s bed…
Billie knows, but I don’t recall any sign that she’s told Ruth as of yet (I don’t think Billie is particularly comfortable with the idea of being Ruth’s informant).
Then again, Ruth might know and be ignoring it until it becomes too big to ignore and she’s forced to do her job. Either scenario fits.
LOL You know you’re infamous on a webcomic site when the artist personally names you in the alt-text thing. Congrats Jen Aside & Yotomoe, you officially have been recognized… XD
This comments section is the first time I’ve actually participated in a comments section with any regularity, so it’s interesting to see how certain regulars come to be known. I highly doubt anyone will ever match Wack’d’s prowess, though. He hasn’t been around as much lately but he got included a cameo in the It’s Walky! redrawn pages a year or two ago.
Wow, Joyce seems to be finding it easier to lie to an adult in a position of authority. Sure it’s making her uncomfortable, but she managed to say it out without stumbling too much. A week ago she’d be stuttering and be unable to blurt it out.
Y’know, I didn’t even think about that. In light of everything else, the whole “lying to authority figures” thing seemed minor. It’s still probably a pretty big deal to Joyce though.
Yeah, that’s a major shift for Joyce. She’s learning that authority figures can be really dangerous and bad and is able to lie to them with barely a hesitation. It’s a major personal milestone.
where is the lie? becky has a place to stay, which is not joyce’s room, and it would be against the rules if she were staying with joyce. all of these things are true. that becky’s current place of residence is someone ELSE’s room and not hypothetically against the rules is beside the point, given the questions that were asked–granted, joyce nipped the line of questioning before she had to outright lie as opposed to carefully provide truths in such a way that masked the situation. “ask me no [more] questions and i’ll tell you no [actual] lies.”
but yeah, it’s a shame that she even has to be this level of sneaky, but i do feel like she ultimately has her priorities straight. she’s zigging and zagging a bit, but i’m confident that she’ll eventually find a moral path that works for her.
hopefully in the process she’ll figure out that (a) while it is necessary to have your own back, there are authority figures who would be glad to (actually) help, given the opportunity and (b) how to tell who those people are.
Actually, nothing Joyce said was untrue. She just specifically answered the question in a way that misdirected despite being truthful and, when she couldn’t do that again, skilfully used the modern lexicon of wanting to ‘feel safe’ to shut Leslie down.
You know what the real tragedy of this is? That Joyce can no longer trust adult figures, even someone as generally and genuinely nice as Leslie. The neurosis has become so strong that she feels troubled even discussing Becky in the most general terms.
Maybe start with offering help and THEN follow up with suspicious sounding questions?
“IF your friend Becky will find herself in housing problems I could help in this or this way… you can tell her she is welcome to call me at any time. Where does she stay anyway?”
Even so, Leslie cares and that is wonderful. And she did manage to communicate that she is a possible source of help.
“oh hey, I have no idea if this is relevant, but there’s a thing called this and this is a way friends of mine have handled it. Here’s some resources related to it. Now, I’m going to grab something from the printer. Feel free to take anything you feel might help”
I’ve also used a number of cartoons and shown them, seeing if they resonate or not. Even used a Dumbing of Age cartoon a bit ago for a conflict between religion and sexuality student.
a sandwich board is certainly one idea, but i’m a little iffy on how…uh…efficient that would be. perhaps a cork board with pamphlets and/or lists of websites and/or local charities which don’t hold one’s personal survival hostage against that of their immortal soul. (….assuming that area of indiana has any such local charities, i guess.)
that being said, i feel like “if you know anyone in this situation, here’s a few potential resources they can try for help getting out of it” should have been part of the initial discussion. although THAT being said, joyce did (understandably) bail on the class before it ended, so it’s possible leslie would have brought it up at some point.
anyway maybe leslie could, via a returned quiz/essay/whatever, slip joyce a note (or she could email her, since this is 201X and we are no longer in the stone age) that says “here’s what i did when i was in a similar situation to your friend. feel free to pass on the info to her and if she needs any help or advice or an ear from someone who’s been there, i’m here, no questions asked”. or something.
OH GOD the feels!
This shit is SO not cool to live through!
I’ve been working at a god damn walmart the last 4 months. Biking for miles in Michigan Winter just to survive, and it’s a small hick town.
I was on my last few tardy/absent freebies before I FINALLY was able to figure out I had a few lesbian bosses I could trust with what I was dealing with at “home”, and finally get some help and extra slack.
I identify a lot with Leslie here. I have a lot of students with various mental health, identity, and abuse situations and I’ve accumulated a lot of resources over the years for a lot of things just having a wealth of friends with terrible life experiences.
And for a student who’s used to teachers and adults being somewhat the enemy or a culture where they are expected to remain silent about things like that, it can be difficult to glean enough information to know which resources the student needs the most or the most pressingly, especially when it’s left vague.
I’ve settled for tending to just make resources available with deniability and saying, hey, don’t know if these fit, but feel free to take them anyways just in case. It helps a lot that I’ve built a decent reputation for myself among the students, so more of them feel more comfortable being the ones to bring the stuff up so I can respond with the resources. But for the ones you know something bad is happening, just not what, it can be a tricky guessing game and it might mean the student is just not in the right headspace to accept resources yet.
That works. Another thing a teacher when I was in HS did was have a special class on a certain topic she suspected was affecting one or two of the students. It might not work in this class where everyone knows what happened with Joyce and they’d know right away who and what Leslie is beating around the bush of, but in other cases it might work, especially if the teacher’s subject matter is appropriate.
(One time, my English teacher selected a book for the class to read on the topic of child abuse. It so happened that the book had a list of resources for Canadian victims of child abuse, that sort of thing. Said English teacher had curated a reputation for being One Of The Good Ones).
You could just always hand out a packet with all that info on it to the entire class so everybody gets the info, even those who don’t feel comfortable asking an authority figure for it. No guessing games involved.
I understand Joyce’s hesitation, she has been betrayed by several authority figures already, but I have a problem with how she doesn’t utilize her resources. This is her gender rights teacher, she better than anyone in the entire school would know how to help Becky, and she was reaching out to Joyce following Becky’s kidnapping.
A few days ago we saw Becky with a solid support system in the dorms. Multiple women knew about her, and protected her from Ruth. She’s not exactly the best kept secret, but that works because they want to help and that is exactly what they are attempting to do. Here we have Leslie, someone who is educated enough to do more than pull Becky into the shadows, and she could have been a solid addition to this support system.
And Joyce firmly turns her down.
Again, I understand why she does it, but this will bite her in the ass.
Joyce’s entire life is biting her in the ass right now. I don’t think this is at the top of her priorities list right now – maybe it should be, but that’s the point of view of someone who’s removed from her inner emotional turmoil and is just waiting for it to blow over so she can get to practical stuff.
Leslie really, really didn’t start that conversation well, imho.
Probably Leslie’s best next step from here would be to give Joyce resources under some sort of hypothetical, though after this exchange it’s highly possible that Joyce would view that as ominous or threatening to Becky’s situation. :/
That’s an interesting observation. Presumably the weather is cooling down since all the characters have been seen wearing warmer clothes lately. Those long sleeves on Joyce’s sweater do cover her palms/wrists though. And Joyce has retreated further and further into Shutdown. She feels alone, and different, and guilty, and that she can’t trust anyone or feel anything because it’ll be turned on her.
But self-inflicting the same type of injury that happened to her the night of her assault? Oh my god if it were true it just makes me want to give her a huge hug more and help her find that therapist’s card.
Regarding covering of her wrists: Joyce is still wearing the brace from when she injured her arm punching the Toe last storyline (four days ago in comic time). She may also be favouring long sleeves to keep strangers from looking at it/asking questions.
That she does. (I’ll never understand that pink hoody dress.) The fact that Willis decided Joyce feels like wearing red is a nice indicator of the conflict she’s feeling. Cutting would be a stretch, but I DON’T TRUST THAT RED HOODY WILLIS YOU HAVE MADE ME AFRAID OF COLORS
TRY AGAIN LES! Good gravy don’t stop get yourself that sandwich board. Ah, I’m so glad she hit shown making a move toward the storyline, it’s very appropriate/in-character.
This one actually made me tear up a little. I feel like a lot of my professors in college would be wearing that sandwich board if they could. Words can’t describe the impact most of them had on my lie.
“Other” adults. One of these days colleges and their students and their students’ parents will admit college students are for the most part (by the calendar, anyway) adults.
Honestly, it’s a bit of both – schools and parents encourage the college students not to claim their adulthood and agency, and rather to stay stuck in a kind of extended adolescence, while the students themselves are not exactly chomping at the bit to claim adulthood and agency. A concerted push from one group or the other would be needed to effect that kind of fundamental change to college/uni culture.
Being fair to college students: they don’t know and have no way of knowing that the kind of extended adolescence the uni and their parents have arranged for them isn’t really adulthood in the sense of being wholly responsible for your own wellbeing and the consequences of your actions, until they get out of the college system and experience adulting for real. Hell, a lot of the students I TA’d didn’t even know that they didn’t have to get their parents to grant permission for their every move and decision anymore. A lot of them (and I include college-aged me in this) were brought up with such controlling parents that even the limited amount of extra freedom and autonomy the college system grants them feels bewildering and overwhelming. Demanding actual adulting right off the bat for a lot of them is about as unfair as tossing someone who can barely float into the deep end and saying “go swim.”
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shoulda led with that Leslie sandwich
mmm
nah, not possible, Alt-Text–I started XCOM, won’t draw again for years
Huh. Could’ve sworn you and Ana were the same person.
Duh. They are.
Yeah, this actually makes it a bit more obvious imo.
Of course they are, but Ana was not specifically called out in the Alt Text, so different responses were warranted.
Let me explain…
No, there is too much, let me sum up.
You see, first she posted as Ana a comment that was pre-written based on seeing the comic on Patreon a day early. Then she read the alt-text, switched accounts to the appropriate name, and replied to herself as an additional followup to reply to the alt-text.
Excellent reference. I approve
There’s another Valerie. o_o
AND YOU’RE SISTERS!
the avatar-selector-bot is awesome!
XCOM Enemy Unknown/Within is a GREAT game; can’t wait for XCOM2 this year! (unfortunately it invalidates the story of Enemy Within. XCOM2 goes on the premise that we lost the fight barely halfway through Enemy Unknown)
my bro just sent me a pre-order code for XCOM2
I thought he loved me and wanted to see me sometimes =(
He loves he! He just wants you to be happy even if it means he doesn’t get to see you! It is a great sacrifice on his part I am sure!
One of the first sets of characters that I’d make with the generator is reassembling Squadron 33.
We can all set it to Impossible Ironman to prepare for the sequel’s plot.
I’m so excited for XCOM2 I could shit the bed.
The wait is murdering me.
So, which class for which character? I mean Ruth is a shoe in for an assault-specced Ranger, so she can specialize in removing alien femur-analogs, and Dina is a stealth Ranger, dedicated to appearing out of nowhere, causing ADVENT troopers to mutter ‘Clever Girl’ in their bizzare dialect before slicing them open with her sword and vanishing again…
I’m torn between making Becky a member of the science staff or making her a sniper that works with Dina.
Though given her class, Ruth would have to act with integrity, so she’d have no regrets when she stopped a charging berserker…
Remember, Becky is a destroyer of closets, so… maybe, demo expert?
I don’t really know XCOM.
I was thinking her working together with Dina to devastate advent troopers and liens – maybe an Demolitions specialized Grenadier would work, I’d need to see how they synergise with Rangers.
But yeah…. given her lack of subtlety, match her with an exosuit and you’ve got an OOTT wrecking ball tossing and launching explosives everywhere throwing around broken alien bodies like ninepins. That could work.
I’m just imaging her banter, like if a Viper constricted her –
“AL-ready-ggg-taken!”
that means Becky is SO Heavy
no wait that sounds wrong
I admit I’ve no plans to transpose the DOA cast into XCOM2.
Though XCOM1 had Deadshot and Doomguy.
I did shit the bed.
My prediction is that there’ll be time travel shenanigans in XCom 2 that make the good XCom 1 ending the canon one.
I shall draw in your steed!
Always nice to know someone will.
I always will
http://chickenforyou.tumblr.com/post/137459608877
Surprised you could tear yourself away long enough to comment. That game is addictive.
I only kept my job by restricting myself to two missions a night.
I’d managed to stop for a while b/c I got stuck on Van Doorn’s mission on Impossible =p
just finished the XCOM base assault
I beat the game once, then I went back and changed a bit of the code, got godmode and some other fun toys.
That’s XCOM baby!
YOU MUST BREAK FREE, COMMANDER
Huh, weird. I just started it too.
There are plenty of sandvich costumes, it’s going her a while to choose the best.
I legit should draw Leslie at some point, not sure why I haven’t
*to take
“It’s worse than that Jim–she’s BREAD.”
“It’s margarine Jim, but not as we know it…”
Dear god…
…even She knows ?
Using capital letters for her pronoun?
Well, Leslie is an avatar of God, right?
Leslie took over for Alan Rickman as Metatron.
too soon
Not so. He was just recalled for a new assignment. Alan Rickman was already an angel.
devil survivor?
Our Lesbian, who art in heaven,
Leslie is divine, you know.
Crap, now I am statting Leslie for In Nomine.
Angel Elohite of Novalis? Or Yves?
She uses reason and rationality to try to convince people to be nice to each others.
Hope she keeps an eye out for demon servitors of Malphas, they adore homo/trans/etc-phobia.
Oooo, a system I’m not familiar with! Looks like a fun one, too.
Yves, but only by a small margin.
Amazi-Girl? Malakite all the way.
Yes, but someone should talk to her about that Discord.
Oh, man, I love The Tick.
A man came on campus with a gun to kidnap his runaway daughter because she’s a lesbian. The local media is all over that, guaranteed. EVERYBODY knows.
Shouldn’t that line in Leslie’s final speech balloon be starting with the pronoun “I”?
It’s perfectly cromulent to leave out the pronoun in this case, as it is understood.
Leslie needs no first person pronoun.
it’s super awful* when all the lines by all characters in a work have perfect grammar
*apparently
That must be why Leslie says, “Your friend, do they…” Jen’s Rule.
she’s using the singular “they”
Ah, so she meant to say, “Does they…”
No, because that would be ungrammatical. ‘Do’ is correct with singular ‘they’.
Just as it is with singular ‘you’, and for corresponding reasons.
It’s implied.
It just seemed that the spacing in the balloon was awkward, like it had been there originally and then Willis removed it.
Leslie is actually thinking in Spanish, where the subject pronoun is regularly dropped. Willis is nice enough to translate it into English for us.
Pronouns are illegal in Middle Bzgyuchi and Willis is displaying cultural sensitivity
I got curious, and Googled ‘Bzgyuchi’. Congratulations, your comment is the ONLY Google hit for something.
Well, it was until you ruined it. :
‘This page,’ then.
That “awkward spacing” you’re describing is called centering… There’s a gap of the same size on the other end of the line
God is sending Leslie to help answer lesbian prayers. But no one is listening. 8~~-({
Hey, WE are listening, though we can’t do anything to help. We are so useless.
I’m reminded of that one parable about the Christian man in a flood, who rejects boats and instead believes God will save him.
Only the boat is a lesbian in this case.
It seems that his hopes were washed away.
It only docks with other boats.
Rooting for Leslie coming in and helping Becky get access to all the resources and help she needs.
And then Leslie figured it out because she’s smart, and things happened and Becky moved in with Leslie and everyone stayed happy.
(Also Becky ended up staying with Dina.)
The end
Also Ruth and Billie quit drinking/contemplating suicide, and Daisy gets a totally hot girlfriend.
If God’s gonna start answering lesbian prayers, he should take care of them all at once.
(Yes, I know not all of those characters are actual lesbians, but it still counts as a lesbian prayer if you shout His name during coitus).
Poor Leslie. She should start showing up with sunglasses and a leather jacket. That would get *me* to open up to her.
Maybe even jailbreak her phone.
“I got a cool teacher who wears dark glasses,
I’m getting great marks in all my classes,
The future’s so bright,
I gotta wear shades.”
Joyce why don’t you understand that Leslie’s a Nice Adult and not like all those other adults. She’ll treat you right!
M’student.
Mostly okay? Leslie, you’re a perfect sun-kissed tropical fish and I won’t hear otherwise.
Well put.
Sun? That’s a weird way of saying “chicks”
No, Jess meant sun. Leslie hasn’t been kissed by a proper lesbian in a while – hence her recent conversation with Ros. Well, part of it.
She’s a modest tropical fish.
I thought she was a perfect cinnamon roll?
Nah, that’s Dorothy. Blondes are easy to confuse.
This is what comes to my mind when someone gets called a perfect cinnamon roll: http://www.doesnotplaywellwithothers.com/comic/pwc-0284
Enjoy your nightmares.
Aw, I got excited for nothing. That’s not even a blip on the nightmare-ometer.
It is a good reminder to catch up on that comic, though, so thanks for that.
Aaaand you just got all 3 of Poe’s comics a new reader!
I do enjoy his style!
mostly ok cinnamon roll, pretty adequate, not awful for this world.
OH MY GOD! WILLIS KNOWS WHO WE ARE!
….Some of us, anyway.
::cries::
There, there. It ain’t a big deal, I mean, it’s not like we are going to live forever…
Speak for yourself, (and look down).
Yep. I’m the army of unkillable badass (singular for the moment). I wonder where the rest of the army is hiding?
It’s okay, Leslie. We know you’re amazing. ;;;;;;
This. This is the reason that my handle is what it is.
And it’s a great handle to have.
^^ Thanks!
Sounds like something Robin would say
I kind of wanted to see the rest of the conversation between Sarah, and Dina. On the other hand, I’ve been wanting Leslie to get involved in the Becky situation for a while.
Clearly, Leslie realizes that Joyce isn’t being entirely truthful. I hope she pursues this, and manages to draw Joyce out on the matter. Becky’s living situation needs to be addressed, because the current arrangement is not sustainable for the long term.
JOYCE NO. JOYCE. YOU COULD GET HER A LEGITIMATE PLACE TO— gah.
ikr
I think Leslie should have tried pressing a bit more, if she was direct in offering help then Joyce would realize she isn’t trying to hurt her or Becky.
But maybe I’m too much of an optimist.
It’s hard. If you push too much, the student will refuse to share anything else and may refuse resources you push their way in the future. It’s a lot about trying to get enough information to get the best resources that can help and then make them available for the student if they’re interested. I mean, I need to refresh my coffee, if they happen to walk away, then what can I say?
I think it’s more of an issue of how she approached Joyce on this. Joyce is feeling very wary of authority in general right now (completely understandable, I tend to assume the worst of any and all authority figures until proven otherwise for my own reasons), and here’s Leslie, an authority figure, essentially interrogating her about a situation that Joyce knows will at best get Becky homeless if discovered.
Maybe a better approach would have been to offer help, then ask questions? Like, “Hey, Joyce, I don’t know if your friend is taken care of, but if they’re not, I know some people who can help them out. [Local org] has a fund for tacking care of kids in that sort of situation, or if your friend isn’t comfortable with that, I know a few people who could put them up. Are they okay?”
(oh gosh I just realized my tendency to perseverate over and over-analyze the hell out of social situations I screwed up is bleeding over into literary analysis of this comic argh)
I thought the same thing, actually. Instead of asking questions, Leslie should have led with “I have access to resources”, or at least when the questions backfired, instead of letting Joyce leave, tell her “wait, the reason I’m asking is”
Leslie might have legetimately thought that since she also had friends to whom shitty homophobia happened, and told it to the whole class, Joyce would’ve jumped in the solidarity wagon and been able to tell the difference with “regular” adults. That’s part of what made Joyce realize that gay is okay, after all. So, really, I don’t think the issue here is all that much about how Leslie said things.
Except for the fact that she seems to probe about Joyce’s own orientation and feelings towards her friend, and that’s what making Joyce uncomfortable — because she knows Becky has feelings for her.
No, she’s uncomfortable because if Becky is staying in the dorms, she’s breaking the rules. And if she’s breaking the rules, she’ll get kicked out and homeless. Hence Joyce’s focus, not on ‘I’m not like that,’ but instead on ‘that’d be against the rules.’
That’s also part of it, but Leslie’s emphasis on “friend” is a part of what stressed Joyce, imo.
And she’s getting ready to present a perfect non rule breaking facade to her parents.
I read it more like Joyce feels responsible for Becky’s safety (don’t have time to archive-binge to find them but I’m sure in at least two strips she’s specifically said she will protect Becky), and is taking that to the extreme of “only *I* can be responsible for Becky’s safety.” Guilt, whether it’s justified guilt or not, can be a very strong motivator and she might be trying to put most if not all of the burden of getting Becky through this on herself.
Investigation time for Leslie?
Detective Leslie?
Leslie in a deerstalker cap? Who would be Watson?
Robin. Obviously.
Because Leslie is also Batman.
*plays The Art of Noise’s version of Mancini’s Peter Gunn theme on the hacked Muzak*
I just spent 45 minutes on YouTube after watching that video…
Art of Noise also did Dragnet, might be more fitting, for a detective theme…
Whoever thought of asking Leslie for advice pat yourselves on the back, but she beat you to it.
part of me suspects she will end up staying with the teacher another part of me doesn’t want her to since it would be harder to spend time with friends on every side.
I’m in favor of this. Actully I’m in favor of anything that would give Leslie screen time outside the classroom.
true. i tend to like the characters who are secondary or tertiary characters a lot and wish to see them more. dont know why though.
Maybe you feel like a secondary character in your own life :O
at best i am a tertiary character in my own life.
Pretty sure being mentioned in the alt text is the commentator version of winning an Oscar.
You look somewhat surprised by it…
You do NOT want to know where that gravatar comes from. Every time I see it I remember, and wish I didn’t.
Now I’m intrigued.
Same here. You meatsacks do have some interesting stuff on here, always looking for new stuff…
Fine, you guys asked for it.
XD XD XD
I’ve seen worse. Least this is in musical form…
XD XD XD
Isn’t that Kestrel from Queen of Wands?
No, it’s Lauren Faust.
But… but she doesn’t have wings or a horn.
Does not compute. Error. Does not compute.
But yeah, it’s supposed to be her.
Pretty sure it’s not. I’m leaning towards Head Trip.
Or “winning” a Razzie, depending on the content of the alt-text.
Then what is the equivalent of being mentioned by a character in the actual comic?
Being president of the world.
How about actually appearing in the comic?
A woman…..offering to make a sandwich…..in a gender studies class?
This sounds like a trap.
“Upper class, upper crust–and up to no good.”–Where In The World Is Carmen Sandiego
Oh nooo I’ve got the Carmen Sandiego theme song in my head now *sob*
Joyce…You need…to talk…to Leslie… For God’s sake, she’s the best ally you could have in this situation!
yeah, because all those other authority figures in her life that she thought she could count on have worked out pretty well so far!
They never listen. It’s all about trust, but you gotta trust someone.
The last time Leslie tried to make a food-related costume was back in Shortpacked! and that didn’t end as expected.
Students, amirite?
re: alt text
I feel like I haven’t seen yotomoe in a while, but then again I haven’t been reading comments as frequencly as before
Ctrl-F says Yotomoe’s last comment was Jan 11
Either way, congrats to you too Jen Aside for being officially recognized in the alt-text…
During Leslie’s group activity, Roz teamed up with a Jen and the alt-text suggested it was a cameo. So s/he’s practically a tertiary cast member already. Let’s hope the character isn’t wearing a red shirt.
A Jen who was AKA Sue, which was the ‘sister’ she had briefly before Ana came on the scene.
JA and SA are anacronysms.
I miss his comments. And drawings.
I’m around but honestly, I’m not the same guy I was when I first started reading these comics. Far too often it seems what I say sparks some sort of argument or something and that’s no fun. I mostly just check the comic out of force of habit at this point.
I was expecting many comics ago that they went to Leslie and now that it could happen… complete rejection from Joyce… sniff there goes my dreams D:
Did Leslie used “they” as a genderneutral pronoun?
Yes! All in favor, just join in.
Aye. English professors aren’t even marking us down for it anymore.
It’s been standard usage for literally centuries. It’s about time they caught up.
How can Joyce not know that Leslie would be on the side of someone with Becky’s story? On the other hand, Leslie might have started by saying that if Becky needs resources she can help out, rather than starting out with the questions.
Leslie is still a teacher, an employee of the university, and is an authority figure at a time when Joyce is questioning her unwavering faith in authority figures.
Otoh, right, so asking if Becky is hiding out in Joyce’s room first thing, not a great move. (Tho Leslie might have at least told Joyce that its not her job to enforce housing regs or rat out students who violate them.) Otoh, Leslie was an authority figure who was using her position as teacher to subvert Joyce’s faith in the Homophobic authorities of her yout.
Yeah, but a student may not believe that, especially if they have a history of being ratted out by teachers who said they weren’t here to rat them out. At this point, Joyce’s last encounter with an adult authority figure involved a gun being pointed at her head and a sprained wrist, so it’s understandable that she’d be feeling extra protective of Becky and a lot less trusting.
Heavensrun, Cerberus: I am surprised that you both say that Joyce perceives all “authority figures” as a monolithic/undifferentiated group even at this point. I would have thought that Leslie would have disrupted that view when she caused Joyce some serious cognitive dissonance re how badly so many lgbt kids are treated by their parents and churches: authority figure vs authority figure. But, I am thinking on what you’re saying, not trying to refute it.
I’m not so sure it’s a matter of all authority figures being the same overall group, more that she’s just now adapting to not viewing authority figures like parents and officials as universally positive or trustworthy. Like, she’s found out her own parents suck and she’s found out Becky’s dad really sucks and she’s learned that there’s good reasons to keep secrets from authorities. Whether or not she sees Leslie differently, she’s probably much more wary about authority and that is a major life change for her.
No, my point is that she -did- perceive authority figures as an undifferentiated group, and one largely beyond reproach, until recent events taught her that you can have a gun pointed at your head and your best friend stolen away (apparently forever) by the nice man that took you to six flags when you were a kid. Then she found out that her parents, (her mom, anyway) who were the ones she trusted the most,are kinda on his side in the matter.
E.G., she now has trust issues.
Besides the obvious factors you list, what was Joyce’s track record with trusting authorities before college? We have no idea.
Well, Becky seemed to think that the notion of her lying to an authority figure was close to zero, so that gives us some notion:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/04-walking-with-dina/buttholedad/
Consider also that she used to take apparent authority figures on faith – e.g., her using Leslie’s gender studies lecture as an excuse to like a secular cartoon aimed at boys. Where authority figures conflicted, she used to take the answer she liked more. Also going to the Bible to reassure herself she wasn’t damning herself when she started hiding Becky.
You’ll notice she hasn’t studied the Bible much to find justification for her ongoing rebellion against her parents anymore, and that used to be the ultimate authority to her.
Finally, remember that Joyce has a tendency to see things in black and white – she’s learning that shades of grey exist but it’s hard for her to think in those terms, still. So if one authority figure can be a royal ass, and other authority figures back him up on it, then all authority figures are not to be trusted. Joyce is reacting to Leslie as if Leslie recently betrayed her trust in a fundamental level – but it’s not her trust in Leslie, the person that’s been broken, it’s her trust in Leslie, the authority figure.
I think Joyce will probably learn that some authority figures can be trusted at some point, it’s just going to take a while and a lot of work for her trust to be re-earned and for the existence of shades of grey on this issue, too, to cement itself in her brain.
Because drama.
As someone with an unfortunate amount of experience lying to college officials and breaking rules, for somewhat similar reasons as Joyce, I absolutely sympathize with her believing that no employee of the university is worth trusting, no matter how nice.
It won’t be too difficult for Leslie to find out who Joyce’s ‘friend’ is.
It’s not like Becky is exactly shy. The whole dorm (except Ruthless) knows about her.
Maybe Leslie could approach Becky directly.
If it isn’t already too late.
If I remember right, technically Ruthless DOES know about Becky (Billie did tell her “Boyfriend” she’s staying with, I think after she let Becky have her bed), she just “doesn’t know yet” officially – She’s had no other information telling her Becky’s sleeping in Billie’s bed…
Billie knows, but I don’t recall any sign that she’s told Ruth as of yet (I don’t think Billie is particularly comfortable with the idea of being Ruth’s informant).
Then again, Ruth might know and be ignoring it until it becomes too big to ignore and she’s forced to do her job. Either scenario fits.
I’m half expecting Mike to materialize out of nowhere to give Joyce a similar question as he did to Walky when Walky was offered help with math.
LOL You know you’re infamous on a webcomic site when the artist personally names you in the alt-text thing. Congrats Jen Aside & Yotomoe, you officially have been recognized… XD
This comments section is the first time I’ve actually participated in a comments section with any regularity, so it’s interesting to see how certain regulars come to be known. I highly doubt anyone will ever match Wack’d’s prowess, though. He hasn’t been around as much lately but he got included a cameo in the It’s Walky! redrawn pages a year or two ago.
yeah, I don’t have time for Wack’d’s dedication, nor the artistic presence to make connections like Jeff Jacques or Spike or etc.
I had to BUY in like a CHUMP
Can’t help noticing that Leslie emphasises “Friend” there. Surely she wouldn’t lower herself to base stereotypes by invoking Gaydar?
Makes you wonder though, is Ruth the only one who hasn’t guessed the truth yet, or is she aware but can’t be bothered to respond?
Only because I’m an enormous attention whore
and a pervhttp://i.imgur.com/GyWOd6L.jpg
The fact that she is naked kinda negates her message, doesn’t it?
Technically she isn’t. She wears that sign which covers most of her body.
Hence “mostly” okay.
Most college students would say that being naked makes her one of the definitely mostly okay adults in the campus. Joe in particular.
Which is a problem given that Leslie isn’t into boys.
Most college students are girls now anyway, so she’d be fine.
As long as she doesn’t mind them looking, I suppose…
Joe: “How could naked lesbians be a problem?”
She doesn’t have to be into boys to provide a special lesson? In fact it may help?
Now we need to follow this up with a picture of Daisy biting her lower lip.
This is good. Unfortunately, I’m picturing Bruce Willis wearing that now.
I’d prefer that though
Hey! I see I should have kept scrolling down! (re: my “I miss Yotomoe” comment above….) Great drawing!
I just checked out your artblog. It’s really good!
Holy mixed messages, Yotomoe!
you win an internet, a cookie, and a monster girl(or boy) of your choice
yay picture!
We know Becky isn’t living with Joyce anymore, but if I were Leslie I’d assume Joyce was lying to me.
Yeah. Though in a sense, she might as well be lying, because Becky is living in her dorm, which is still against the rules.
Wow, Joyce seems to be finding it easier to lie to an adult in a position of authority. Sure it’s making her uncomfortable, but she managed to say it out without stumbling too much. A week ago she’d be stuttering and be unable to blurt it out.
Y’know, I didn’t even think about that. In light of everything else, the whole “lying to authority figures” thing seemed minor. It’s still probably a pretty big deal to Joyce though.
Yeah, that’s a major shift for Joyce. She’s learning that authority figures can be really dangerous and bad and is able to lie to them with barely a hesitation. It’s a major personal milestone.
where is the lie? becky has a place to stay, which is not joyce’s room, and it would be against the rules if she were staying with joyce. all of these things are true. that becky’s current place of residence is someone ELSE’s room and not hypothetically against the rules is beside the point, given the questions that were asked–granted, joyce nipped the line of questioning before she had to outright lie as opposed to carefully provide truths in such a way that masked the situation. “ask me no [more] questions and i’ll tell you no [actual] lies.”
but yeah, it’s a shame that she even has to be this level of sneaky, but i do feel like she ultimately has her priorities straight. she’s zigging and zagging a bit, but i’m confident that she’ll eventually find a moral path that works for her.
hopefully in the process she’ll figure out that (a) while it is necessary to have your own back, there are authority figures who would be glad to (actually) help, given the opportunity and (b) how to tell who those people are.
not that either one of those are easy.
(sorry if my last couple points were convoluted as heck, it’s 3am.)
Technically, she’s not lying. Telling a half-truth instead – Becky isn’t staying in her room, after all.
Actually, nothing Joyce said was untrue. She just specifically answered the question in a way that misdirected despite being truthful and, when she couldn’t do that again, skilfully used the modern lexicon of wanting to ‘feel safe’ to shut Leslie down.
You know what the real tragedy of this is? That Joyce can no longer trust adult figures, even someone as generally and genuinely nice as Leslie. The neurosis has become so strong that she feels troubled even discussing Becky in the most general terms.
Maybe start with offering help and THEN follow up with suspicious sounding questions?
“IF your friend Becky will find herself in housing problems I could help in this or this way… you can tell her she is welcome to call me at any time. Where does she stay anyway?”
Even so, Leslie cares and that is wonderful. And she did manage to communicate that she is a possible source of help.
That’s usually what I do in my classes.
“oh hey, I have no idea if this is relevant, but there’s a thing called this and this is a way friends of mine have handled it. Here’s some resources related to it. Now, I’m going to grab something from the printer. Feel free to take anything you feel might help”
I’ve also used a number of cartoons and shown them, seeing if they resonate or not. Even used a Dumbing of Age cartoon a bit ago for a conflict between religion and sexuality student.
a sandwich board is certainly one idea, but i’m a little iffy on how…uh…efficient that would be. perhaps a cork board with pamphlets and/or lists of websites and/or local charities which don’t hold one’s personal survival hostage against that of their immortal soul. (….assuming that area of indiana has any such local charities, i guess.)
that being said, i feel like “if you know anyone in this situation, here’s a few potential resources they can try for help getting out of it” should have been part of the initial discussion. although THAT being said, joyce did (understandably) bail on the class before it ended, so it’s possible leslie would have brought it up at some point.
anyway maybe leslie could, via a returned quiz/essay/whatever, slip joyce a note (or she could email her, since this is 201X and we are no longer in the stone age) that says “here’s what i did when i was in a similar situation to your friend. feel free to pass on the info to her and if she needs any help or advice or an ear from someone who’s been there, i’m here, no questions asked”. or something.
OH GOD the feels!
This shit is SO not cool to live through!
I’ve been working at a god damn walmart the last 4 months. Biking for miles in Michigan Winter just to survive, and it’s a small hick town.
I was on my last few tardy/absent freebies before I FINALLY was able to figure out I had a few lesbian bosses I could trust with what I was dealing with at “home”, and finally get some help and extra slack.
*Hugs of support*
I identify a lot with Leslie here. I have a lot of students with various mental health, identity, and abuse situations and I’ve accumulated a lot of resources over the years for a lot of things just having a wealth of friends with terrible life experiences.
And for a student who’s used to teachers and adults being somewhat the enemy or a culture where they are expected to remain silent about things like that, it can be difficult to glean enough information to know which resources the student needs the most or the most pressingly, especially when it’s left vague.
I’ve settled for tending to just make resources available with deniability and saying, hey, don’t know if these fit, but feel free to take them anyways just in case. It helps a lot that I’ve built a decent reputation for myself among the students, so more of them feel more comfortable being the ones to bring the stuff up so I can respond with the resources. But for the ones you know something bad is happening, just not what, it can be a tricky guessing game and it might mean the student is just not in the right headspace to accept resources yet.
That works. Another thing a teacher when I was in HS did was have a special class on a certain topic she suspected was affecting one or two of the students. It might not work in this class where everyone knows what happened with Joyce and they’d know right away who and what Leslie is beating around the bush of, but in other cases it might work, especially if the teacher’s subject matter is appropriate.
(One time, my English teacher selected a book for the class to read on the topic of child abuse. It so happened that the book had a list of resources for Canadian victims of child abuse, that sort of thing. Said English teacher had curated a reputation for being One Of The Good Ones).
Ooh, that’s a good one. Well done too.
You could just always hand out a packet with all that info on it to the entire class so everybody gets the info, even those who don’t feel comfortable asking an authority figure for it. No guessing games involved.
I understand Joyce’s hesitation, she has been betrayed by several authority figures already, but I have a problem with how she doesn’t utilize her resources. This is her gender rights teacher, she better than anyone in the entire school would know how to help Becky, and she was reaching out to Joyce following Becky’s kidnapping.
A few days ago we saw Becky with a solid support system in the dorms. Multiple women knew about her, and protected her from Ruth. She’s not exactly the best kept secret, but that works because they want to help and that is exactly what they are attempting to do. Here we have Leslie, someone who is educated enough to do more than pull Becky into the shadows, and she could have been a solid addition to this support system.
And Joyce firmly turns her down.
Again, I understand why she does it, but this will bite her in the ass.
Joyce’s entire life is biting her in the ass right now. I don’t think this is at the top of her priorities list right now – maybe it should be, but that’s the point of view of someone who’s removed from her inner emotional turmoil and is just waiting for it to blow over so she can get to practical stuff.
Leslie really, really didn’t start that conversation well, imho.
Joyce is not in a pressing need for “utilizing her resources”.
She already has a list of campus LBGTQ resources which further explains her motivation of not contacting an authority figure about it.
Leslie the Gender Studies Prof: World’s Most Okay Adult.
What is making Joyce uncomfortable and is breaking the rules is the “sleeping with your lesbian best friend”.
I’m not sure if she is ‘uncomfortable’ or if she’s just using the language of ‘feeling safe’ to avoid having to directly lie to Leslie.
Leslie Bean is the mostly okayest!
Probably Leslie’s best next step from here would be to give Joyce resources under some sort of hypothetical, though after this exchange it’s highly possible that Joyce would view that as ominous or threatening to Becky’s situation. :/
Maybe in class somehow, though I’m not sure how she would lead into it.
Things I have learned during my time on this planet:
1) When people say they are okay, they aren’t.
2) When people say they are mostly okay, they REALLY aren’t.
3) Kittens are fuzzy.
4) burning hair smells…weird…
…Don’t ask…
5) Fire is hot
Guys, I think Joyce is cutting..
No, she’s still going to class.
That’s an interesting observation. Presumably the weather is cooling down since all the characters have been seen wearing warmer clothes lately. Those long sleeves on Joyce’s sweater do cover her palms/wrists though. And Joyce has retreated further and further into Shutdown. She feels alone, and different, and guilty, and that she can’t trust anyone or feel anything because it’ll be turned on her.
But self-inflicting the same type of injury that happened to her the night of her assault? Oh my god if it were true it just makes me want to give her a huge hug more and help her find that therapist’s card.
Plus Willis has her wearing crimson red and he’s sparing with that color unless it’s to reflect conflict/anger/violence.
T_______________T
Regarding covering of her wrists: Joyce is still wearing the brace from when she injured her arm punching the Toe last storyline (four days ago in comic time). She may also be favouring long sleeves to keep strangers from looking at it/asking questions.
Oh shoot I forgot it’s only been 4 days, that makes more sense!
Joyce likes long sleeves. The dark red is probably being worn because that pink hoodie doesn’t fit her current mood.
That she does. (I’ll never understand that pink hoody dress.) The fact that Willis decided Joyce feels like wearing red is a nice indicator of the conflict she’s feeling. Cutting would be a stretch, but I DON’T TRUST THAT RED HOODY WILLIS YOU HAVE MADE ME AFRAID OF COLORS
TRY AGAIN LES! Good gravy don’t stop get yourself that sandwich board. Ah, I’m so glad she hit shown making a move toward the storyline, it’s very appropriate/in-character.
forget the board, just wear a snadwich
This one actually made me tear up a little. I feel like a lot of my professors in college would be wearing that sandwich board if they could. Words can’t describe the impact most of them had on my lie.
Shouldn’t that read ‘Mostly Harmless’?
(Only in the revised edition.)
Shown: Walky’s face.
Not shown: Joe’s face.
*sigh*
Making me sad: Joyce’s face.
That pointed index finger in the last panel really sells the body language. Nice detail.
T-shirt? Accompanying images: a student loan bill, a nuclear weapon, a melting icecap.
The ones who you should fear most are the ones that say you don’t need to be afraid of them.
No, no. You can trust me on this. I would never, ever lie to you.
fun thing to say to roommates: “i’m not saying i’d kill you in your sleep, but i do know where you live.”
“Other” adults. One of these days colleges and their students and their students’ parents will admit college students are for the most part (by the calendar, anyway) adults.
Honestly, it’s a bit of both – schools and parents encourage the college students not to claim their adulthood and agency, and rather to stay stuck in a kind of extended adolescence, while the students themselves are not exactly chomping at the bit to claim adulthood and agency. A concerted push from one group or the other would be needed to effect that kind of fundamental change to college/uni culture.
Being fair to college students: they don’t know and have no way of knowing that the kind of extended adolescence the uni and their parents have arranged for them isn’t really adulthood in the sense of being wholly responsible for your own wellbeing and the consequences of your actions, until they get out of the college system and experience adulting for real. Hell, a lot of the students I TA’d didn’t even know that they didn’t have to get their parents to grant permission for their every move and decision anymore. A lot of them (and I include college-aged me in this) were brought up with such controlling parents that even the limited amount of extra freedom and autonomy the college system grants them feels bewildering and overwhelming. Demanding actual adulting right off the bat for a lot of them is about as unfair as tossing someone who can barely float into the deep end and saying “go swim.”
Lesbian sandwich