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Dumbing of Age

A college webcomic by David Willis
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November 8, 2022

Trendy

by David M Willis on April 5, 2016 at 12:01 am
  • 03 - When God Closes The Door

└ Tags: jocelyne, john

Discussion (1,227) ¬

[ Comments RSS ]
  1. Ana Chronistic
    Ana Chronistic
    April 5, 2016 at 12:01 am | #

    See, this is why *I* only tithe to Willis and Spike Trotman! If either of THEM get a free GT, they’ve EARNED IT

    (sensing Joss will seek a new ride home in 3, 2, 1…)

    • Ana Chronistic
      Ana Chronistic
      April 5, 2016 at 12:03 am | #

      anyway, India’s right next to Indiana, so YEAH???

      [/sarcasm]
      [/unless you count the dictionary]

      • gkheyf
        gkheyf
        April 5, 2016 at 12:04 am | #

        what kinda dictionaries are you reading? proper nouns ‘n what not

        • Ana Chronistic
          Ana Chronistic
          April 5, 2016 at 12:09 am | #

          besides Urban Dictionary? well

        • Makkabee
          Makkabee
          April 5, 2016 at 1:47 am | #

          “what kinda dictionaries are you reading? proper nouns ‘n what not”

          The New Century Dictionary (1946 edition) has an index of geographical names at the end so India and Indiana do indeed appear next to each other in that dictionary. Page 2647, I think.

          • Lovely Monsters
            Lovely Monsters
            April 5, 2016 at 2:54 am | #

            I think I love you.

            • Kamino Neko
              Kamino Neko
              April 5, 2016 at 4:49 am | #

              So what am I so afraid of?

              • TsunamiJane
                TsunamiJane
                April 5, 2016 at 5:52 am | #

                *applause*

              • N0083rP00F
                N0083rP00F
                April 5, 2016 at 9:05 am | #

                Sea cucumbers?

                • Tomas
                  Tomas
                  April 5, 2016 at 10:29 am | #

                  Cuttlefish! I saw a documentary. It was terrifying.

                • Kamino Neko
                  Kamino Neko
                  April 5, 2016 at 11:13 am | #

                  …I actually am afraid of cuttlefish. (I am not, however, Klaw.)

                • RubyDroplets
                  RubyDroplets
                  April 5, 2016 at 7:13 pm | #

                  True facts about the Cuttlefish?

              • quarktime
                quarktime
                April 5, 2016 at 10:08 am | #

                Ooh, someone’s dating themselves with THAT reference!

                • Kamino Neko
                  Kamino Neko
                  April 5, 2016 at 11:12 am | #

                  Oi! Take that back! I haven’t dated myself for years! I have a girlfriend who takes care of that, now. >_>

                • Clif
                  Clif
                  April 5, 2016 at 3:42 pm | #

                  She dates herself for you?

                • Kamino Neko
                  Kamino Neko
                  April 5, 2016 at 6:20 pm | #

                  If we’re in the mood for that, sure. >_>

                • Dakota
                  Dakota
                  April 5, 2016 at 7:07 pm | #

                  What reference are you guys making? I am so confused. T^T

                • Ana Chronistic
                  Ana Chronistic
                  April 5, 2016 at 7:35 pm | #

                  I’m afraid that I’m not sure of
                  A love there is no cure for

                  I think I love you
                  Something something in French*
                  Though it worries me to say
                  I’ve never felt this way

                  Heyyyyyyy

                  *elevator ding*

                  (*not the actual line here, in-joke substitute for the part I can’t remember w/o looking it up)

              • Falling Star
                Falling Star
                April 5, 2016 at 10:13 am | #

                Everything.

          • Mr.Morningstar
            Mr.Morningstar
            April 5, 2016 at 12:10 pm | #

            So did you know that from memory or did you look it up

        • SgtWadeyWilson
          SgtWadeyWilson
          April 5, 2016 at 1:47 am | #

          The out of date college dictionary I read cover to cover for no good reason when I was about ten had proper nouns, a list of prefixes and suffixes, four alphabets and a whole page about semicolons. I didn’t really take the last one to heart, but that’s beside the point.

        • Lurlock
          Lurlock
          April 5, 2016 at 8:13 am | #

          Umm, most dictionaries I’ve seen include proper nouns. Not even in a separate section, just right along with the rest of the words.

          • shazz_smifff
            shazz_smifff
            April 5, 2016 at 9:29 am | #

            all the dictionaries i read at school had all the rude words underlined until i got to secondary school, then they were highlighted in pink or bright yellow

      • Watson The Snail
        Watson The Snail
        April 5, 2016 at 12:05 am | #

        You think Indiana’s next to India? Na, man.

        • Random832
          Random832
          April 5, 2016 at 12:43 am | #

          Well, it’s close enough that it could be in the adjacent column or the opposite page.

          • Reltzik
            Reltzik
            April 5, 2016 at 1:37 am | #

            …. Wait.

            …. Wouldn’t “Indian” be between the two?

            • Makkabee
              Makkabee
              April 5, 2016 at 1:48 am | #

              Not when geographical names appear in a separate index.

              • Lovely Monsters
                Lovely Monsters
                April 5, 2016 at 2:54 am | #

                Okay, now I’m sure.

              • SeanR
                SeanR
                April 5, 2016 at 9:40 am | #

                At least you can get away with saying “India” is IN “Indiana”.

                • Clif
                  Clif
                  April 5, 2016 at 4:18 pm | #

                  Dunno, but India is in Texas. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India,_Texas

                • Ana Chronistic
                  Ana Chronistic
                  April 5, 2016 at 7:38 pm | #

                  waitWHOA it’s like

                  Christian is Christi with “an”
                  Indiana is India with “an” (Indi – AN – a)
                  Johann is John with “an”

                  MIND BLOWN

                  [/sarcasm]

                • Ana Chronistic
                  Ana Chronistic
                  April 5, 2016 at 7:38 pm | #

                  [[gonna cut back on sugar and take a nap now]]

                • Clif
                  Clif
                  April 6, 2016 at 1:11 am | #

                  Daw…

        • Xelgaex
          Xelgaex
          April 5, 2016 at 1:06 am | #

          What you did there, I see it.

      • TPman
        TPman
        April 5, 2016 at 2:20 am | #

        Makes me think of the old cartoon with Columbus planting his flag in the ice and insisting that it was “Northern India”.

      • Historyman68
        Historyman68
        April 5, 2016 at 9:27 am | #

        India? Na.

    • gkheyf
      gkheyf
      April 5, 2016 at 12:03 am | #

      she coulda tried that in front of joyce, but still: zing!

      if only there were a more rebellious ride for her to catch…

      • Wheelpath
        Wheelpath
        April 5, 2016 at 12:07 am | #

        No, she couldn’t have. As much as I love Jocelyne, she is still a propagator of the infallible patriarchy. It’s how she was raised, not her fault, and she can try to break it, but for now she has shown me she is more or less part of it.

        • Dave
          Dave
          April 5, 2016 at 12:15 am | #

          Literally everyone is raised to be a propagator of patriarchy. Everyone. The implication that Jocelyne does so more than Joyce does (who just yesterday was laying down concepts of a woman’s role in marriage that are patriarchal to the core, and bucked Dorothy’s suggestion that it could be otherwise) by lieu of having been assigned a male gender at birth is kinda gross? Unless you meant something else by this and I’m misreading you, but that’s sort of the implication I’m getting. Sorry in advance if I’m misinterpreting.

          • Wheelpath
            Wheelpath
            April 5, 2016 at 12:32 am | #

            Oh, no, sorry. My fault, I should have been clearer, and you’re right, Joyce is terrible with that stuff, obviously (she’s growing but not great). At least she’s trying (she had to have a lesbian best friend and be held up for it to happen), I don’t see any of that from Jocelyne until now.

            It is about gender, but not what Jocelyne was assigned at birth. I meant that there is no way she could’ve stood up to her brother because as a woman that would help further deconstruct it as Joyce was doing. Plus she’s been uber passive at all points before this, in part due to hiding sure, but you can’t tell me none of it is due to this. She didn’t help her sister because she’s scared and “it isn’t her place, she isn’t allowed to disagree.” She hid behind her menu, knowing full well her sister is right.

            If any of this came across as close-minded or misinformed, I apologize. and please inform me where I’m wrong or if I made fallacies.

            • Carriethedragon
              Carriethedragon
              April 5, 2016 at 12:40 am | #

              I don’t agree at all that there was “no way she could’ve”, because she is absolutely capable. I’m not even going to try to respond to the bit about “because as a woman that would help further deconstruct it as Joyce was doing,” because to be frank, I don’t understand what you meant by it at all.

              I think Jocelyne is scared. But she’s not scared that it isn’t her place. She’s scared about what will happen if she begins to fight back against her family. She is stuck in an incredibly toxic situation. I’m not sure what she has in terms of resources for getting away from them, her own money, etc., but regardless of whether she could cut off ties with them or not, it’s a really hard situation that she’s in. As she once said to Ethan, she’s afraid she’ll say some things she can’t ever take back. Of course, in this strip, it seems like she may finally have had enough.

              “She hid behind her menu, knowing full well her sister is right.” This makes it sound like she was ashamed or felt at fault because of what Joyce was saying, and I don’t think that’s the case. I think she hid because, as I said before, she is worried about what will happen when conflict breaks out. She tried to divert the conversation to protect Joyce and Becky and to avoid the conflict, but I don’t think she in any way wants to silence what they have to say.

              • Wheelpath
                Wheelpath
                April 5, 2016 at 12:55 am | #

                Your opinion definitely makes more sense, and helps me understand why so many are mad at me. You are totally right, and now I see where I was making connections that aren’t strong at all frankly. I do get how it should be read as her trying to avoid conflict until now. That has just never been my strong suit, as you can tell with this thread.

                • Carriethedragon
                  Carriethedragon
                  April 5, 2016 at 12:58 am | #

                  I really appreciate you saying this! It’s always nice to have a positive experience with comments section discussions, haha.

                • Xenocide
                  Xenocide
                  April 5, 2016 at 1:37 am | #

                  This is how debates should be. It’s nice to see people explaining themselves without resorting to thinly veiled attacks and actually listening to responses rather than just getting defensive.

                  The sad thing is how often things go the other way instead 🙁

                • Seer Of Rage
                  Seer Of Rage
                  April 5, 2016 at 2:23 am | #

                  I’m glad I decided to read this.

            • trlkly
              trlkly
              April 5, 2016 at 1:06 am | #

              I just don’t understand what you’re getting at. Yes, it would be completely out of character for Joss right now to have said this in front of Joyce. Yes, it would have been a bad idea for her to do it, given how John was acting, since at least part of what John was doing was trying to save face.

              Yeah, maybe she has internalized some of the female gender roles of being passive, maybe even pursuing them because she’s female and that’s how women are “supposed” to act. And, yeah, she probably was raised to believe in the whole familial hierarchy where the bigger brother (as long as he’s a Christian) is an authority.

              But it seems a bit simplistic to put it down to upholding the patriarchy. Especially when that’s a common refrain of the anti-trans feminists.

              (They think trans people are upholding the patriarchy by claiming to have an innate gender.)

              • CJ
                CJ
                April 6, 2016 at 3:22 am | #

                Are the feminist that oppose trans people because of the concept of innate gender? I always read the argument as “trans people were encourage to transition by (certain parts of) society because if they transition, they don’t threaten the traditional gender roles.” An either conform or transition- approach by society which puts more pressure on women who do stuff traditionally not supposed to be done by women.

            • Dave
              Dave
              April 5, 2016 at 9:33 am | #

              Nothing to be sorry for! Language is strange and imperfect, it’s friggin’ difficult trying to get the full scope of thought across and misunderstandings spring from that. If anything I’m sorry for drawing an incorrect conclusion!

        • Viv
          Viv
          April 5, 2016 at 12:16 am | #

          Uh…not really…Trans women are just as much victims of the patriarchy as cis women, even if they are still in the closet.

          • Russ
            Russ
            April 5, 2016 at 4:39 am | #

            It’s true! women are women are women regardless if they’re cis or not. Trans women get an even shorter end of the stick than cis women do because transmisogyny is like regular misogyny… but super-charged.

            • Leorale
              Leorale
              April 5, 2016 at 9:28 am | #

              Transmisogyny is, like, double-ply.

              • quarktime
                quarktime
                April 5, 2016 at 10:11 am | #

                Without being NEARLY so comfortable on the ol’ tushie as say, Charmin.

        • Carriethedragon
          Carriethedragon
          April 5, 2016 at 12:18 am | #

          I don’t get why you’re saying this. Yes, we’re probably all propagators of the patriarchy to a degree, so you’re right in that sense. But why on earth are you zeroing in on Jocelyne? She is a member of a demographic that suffers the worst from the patriarchy and from the gender binary itself.

          So why didn’t Jocelyne say this in the restaurant? She was afraid. And if that’s true, why is she saying it now? Because people aren’t automatons that say exactly the right thing at any given moment. It’s hard to make the right decision in a tense moment. It’s hardly ever done by anyone, imo. It’s really, really difficult.

        • Thor
          Thor
          April 5, 2016 at 12:18 am | #

          Okay, Wheelpath. You have me curious here. Exactly *how* is Jocelyne a propagator of the infallible patriarchy?

        • ninja_jesus
          ninja_jesus
          April 5, 2016 at 12:27 am | #

          Excuse me? Are you forgetting that she is trans existing in a trans-unfriendly space? Did you know trans people are often murdered in these spaces? Let me give an incredible “fuck you” for accusing Joss of being a part of something that would literally murder her if she went up against it.

          • Wheelpath
            Wheelpath
            April 5, 2016 at 12:43 am | #

            Holy shit you’re right. I did definitely deserve that, I hope what I said explains my view for everyone else, but actually yeah.
            I was just too hopeful in thinking maybe they could be like Joyce, and once someone close has these issues with oppression they could change, but they aren’t…
            Sorry

            • Charles Phipps
              Charles Phipps
              April 5, 2016 at 1:29 am | #

              I do think the fact she’s being forced to be silent instead of supporting Becky is something like a special torture for Josie. She wants to help and be supportive but it could very well be physically dangerous. Not to mention financially if they’re struggling. Which makes it no less like a punch in the gut.

            • Rutee
              Rutee
              April 5, 2016 at 1:37 am | #

              Jocelyne is /likely/ pretty appraised on this stuff seeing as she’s young and in the modern era (and Gay males still have pride of place in queer networks, so what Becky’s gone through shouldn’t be unheard of for her). She’s scared because she has cause to be.

              • Apostate
                Apostate
                April 5, 2016 at 1:45 am | #

                Damn right. Hell, I’ve almost died for being a transwoman. Her fears are not unfounded.

                • Cerberus
                  Cerberus
                  April 5, 2016 at 4:00 am | #

                  Oh yeah, very much ditto on that. Including the almost dying part. Jocelyne will have a tough fucking road ahead and that’s a major part of why she’s scared. The other part is that she is incensed by it all, but she knows if she gives in to that anger she risks outting herself and that’s the ballgame.

                  Hell, I’d say it’s guaranteed that she’s stewing in anger all the time, especially with family. When you’re a girl, but everyone thinks you’re a boy and thus you’ll fully agree with their ultra toxic masculinity and sexist views of women, it’s hard not to be.

                  It’s like having a front row seat to the partiarchy’s worst showing.

                • quarktime
                  quarktime
                  April 5, 2016 at 10:12 am | #

                  It helps to be heavily armed.

                • Rutee
                  Rutee
                  April 5, 2016 at 5:42 pm | #

                  It really doesn’t ‘help to be heavily armed’. Then you’re an extremist and it’s okay to kill you anyway. And you kinda have to sleep, and aren’t omniscient besides.

                • Cerberus
                  Cerberus
                  April 5, 2016 at 11:12 pm | #

                  quarktime-

                  Sadly, even if that helped, it would not help us:
                  http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/11196-no-justice-when-women-fight-back

          • phildog
            phildog
            April 5, 2016 at 12:53 am | #

            Well said.

          • Rutee
            Rutee
            April 5, 2016 at 1:35 am | #

            ….

            so you’re saying that, on pain of death, she’s upholding a part of the patriarchy?

            Look, part of the point of saying things like “EVERYONE is sexist” or “Everyone is racist” is that, you know, we actually mean them, rather than using them as a shibboleth. Jocelyne is both victim and inadvertent, unwilling supporter. It /is/ fucked up to go after her more for it than the gal we know is way more gung ho on supporting patriarchy as a rule, but she DID just allow patriarchy to continue by inaction. I’m not going to get MAD about it, because yeah, even without the fear of death (Which is completely a legit fear for her), she’s still ultimately afraid (of a dozen other terrible things), but that doesn’t change that Joyce just suffered directly from patriarchy, and Jocelyne didn’t try to stop it.

            • ninja_jesus
              ninja_jesus
              April 5, 2016 at 3:51 am | #

              That’s ridiculous logic and I don’t agree with you.

              • Rutee
                Rutee
                April 5, 2016 at 1:03 pm | #

                Whether you agree or disagree, whether patriarchy hurts or helps you, makes no fucking difference. Did you support it through your action, or your inaction? If so, what you did is sexist. If that hurts you, well, it’s kind of immaterial to that question. “Is what you did something I should be angry with you about” is not actually the same question as “Is what you did sexist”

                I really, really, REALLY don’t need any fucking Brave Defenders who will deny my agency, or people who want to strip the complexities of life away. These things are hard and life sucks. Sometimes you don’t get a good choice – you just have to choose shitty options. Jocelyne’s choices suck – let John abuse the patriarchy to hurt Joyce, or open herself up to abuse for opposing him publicly. I *respect* her decision, but I’m not going to deny what it did.

        • buckybone
          buckybone
          April 5, 2016 at 12:33 am | #

          Yo…getting awfully close to TERF nonsense here, Wheelpath…might want to cool it with the “trans women are tools of the patriarchy” bullcrap.

          • Wheelpath
            Wheelpath
            April 5, 2016 at 12:46 am | #

            Considering I don’t identify as a feminist that would be bad. Also wasn’t trying to say that, but obviously I don’t know how to voice my opinions correctly, I apologize.

        • Tgape
          Tgape
          April 5, 2016 at 10:53 am | #

          Jocelyne is being *far* more effective talking to John one on one. That is, this way she has a chance of having a positive effect. If she’d spoken up in front of the evil sinner, she would have had no chance to do anything except undermine her own credibility in John’s eyes. Especially since she wouldn’t have been able to get the dig in about the fancy car bought by the poor for his use. I’ve had some second thoughts about something I said about John never seeing someone else’s problems as his own because of his missionary status, but if he’s driving that car around without guilt, he’s either an entirely thoughtless bastard or a sociopath. I’m hoping for thoughtless bastard, as that leaves some room for growth.

    • Doctor_Who
      Doctor_Who
      April 5, 2016 at 12:04 am | #

      Between Twins and Transformers, if Willis can get a Mustang as well I should just give him all my money, he clearly can manage it better than I can.

      • SgtWadeyWilson
        SgtWadeyWilson
        April 5, 2016 at 1:54 am | #

        So if he buys the movie version of Barricade, you’ll park the TARDIS where now? *Opens notepad.*

    • Marie
      Marie
      April 5, 2016 at 12:07 am | #

      I think she may be forced to find a new ride home, depending whether John continues doubling down (likely) or not (in which case, he instead wants to try to prove he is a) a good christian and b) using the car well by getting Joss home.)

      • Liliet
        Liliet
        April 5, 2016 at 7:00 am | #

        If only there was someone else there with a car.
        Someone who’s also her family.
        Someone who’s much safer for her to be around.
        Someone she desperately wants to support.

        If only…

        • HMH
          HMH
          April 5, 2016 at 1:58 pm | #

          Yeah, because Joss carpet-bombing her relationship with her entire family and hometown before she is established in life as a safe and assured independent, and doing so in such a way that would likely also guarantee her sister’s relationship with the family is destroyed, which would cost said sister her free college education from said family, is an absolutely sane and rational decision. Beyond that, you know how awful a position Becky is in right now? I can almost guarantee that at this early point in her college life, her adult life, Joyce’s parents could immediately leave her in the same position just by disowning her, let alone actively making it difficult for her to get what she needs to establish herself in life in the many ways that Toedad has for Becky?

          Oh, not to mention that despite their despicable collection of human failings, Joss probably still loves at least some of her family, and knows that an explosive fucking drama bomb of in-fighting with unrepentant sinners will cost said family their entire social standing in their lifelong hometown, their very important positions in their church, even her older brother’s entire career and adult life up to this point. All of that could be gone in months or even weeks if this situation were to blow up into something that makes public record, or even generates the right rumours. I bet that Joss is plenty aware what most of the town is talking about related to this situation, and I bet it isn’t good. People can have genuinely shitty parents and any way Joss chooses to deal with that problem would be completely justified, but it’s entirely her choice to play this situation out how she thinks will keep everyone safer, or happier.

          Joss is a meek person, but a calculating one, and she hopefully has some kind of long-term plan for gently making a clean break. Fuck, as meek as she has been shown to be, maybe she currently plans to stay closeted indefinitely – and that is absolutely a valid choice, despite the fact that it’s tragic and would make us all feel very sad, and possibly even make some people here outright hate her like she is some kind of traitor to trans* people. But undermining 25+ years of careful balancing to try to set herself up for a position where she could possibly live her life safely and happily by escalating a situation which may blow over with sufficient damage control and siding with her sister when she knows full well the family can’t possibly respect her as a sensible adult with meaningful agency is highly unlikely to help her sister or Becky, and will possibly destroy her own life in the process.

          We would all love to see Joss take the warrior angle on this. It would be immediate, vindicating, and a beautiful symbolic and literal moment. But, the consequences are levels of dire that perhaps some people who haven’t experienced this sort of situation will find it difficult to comprehend. Even knowing of how dire they are, some in such a situation would choose to accept those consequences, and while that would be brave as hell for Joss to do, that does not make it the right choice, or the best choice, but simply the most honest and most satisfying. Once again, we know nothing about Joss’ long-term plan, and very little about her in general; we’re being clearly shown what Joss would like to do and projecting our desires to see her gain all the self-actualizing she would gain from finally getting to live true to who she is, and what she believes in, but with her upbringing this kind of dramatic moment is, if nothing else, not something she would ever just “jump into” the way that, say, Becky has.

          But if anyone doubts the stakes here, please consider this and think about it in terms of precisely why Joss would want to see this blow over instead of come to a head; Joss is a member of the LGBQT community, and a member of the fundamentalist community, so she therefore knows well the dangers of being associated with the former and the reactionary attitudes of the latter. These girls are in a small American town that is predominantly fundamentalist, where their family is a well-known, well-respected, well-connected fixture of the community, and the young patriarch of the family is the local goddamned minister. Just think about what such a family could possibly do to solve the problem of a trouble-making, defiant, embarrassment of a daughter. Just think about the fact that this family is politically connected in the town’s hierarchy due to how deeply and thoroughly they are involved with the church, and that the vast majority of citizens and authority figures share their moral sensibilities. What if Joyce’s family decided that saving face with their community was worth more than their daughter’s safety, or even her life? Honour killings are a real thing, and not many questions would ever be asked if she were to suddenly disappear and never come back. Joyce is not in the same position as Joss to understand how much danger she may actually be putting herself in, so it’s great to see her react to all this in a way that mirrors our own frustration and disgust. But in Joss’ mind, I’m sure she’s trying to find a way to keep her sister from obliterating her current, privileged position in life for a simple moral victory that Joyce will be in a much safer position to assume after enacting a long-term plan.

          Maybe I’m being excessively pessimistic, protective, or even paranoid with the extent to which I believe the danger could escalate in this situation. But not only is that level of discrepancy absolutely called for by those who are trapped in such situations, it suits the thinking of somebody brought up in such a hostile environment. John nailed the attitude of these people perfectly in his shut-down to Becky: People get what they deserve, and because you chose to do wrong, you should have expected all of the consequences that befell you and accept them as God’s will, and summary punishment for your wrongs. Even if you take the God parts out of it, this style of thinking often leads to that sort of never-ending forward-thinking and meticulous planning for the simple fact that you have internalized all outcomes as your direct responsibility and hold yourself fully accountable for ensuring that nothing bad ever happens.

          I could have ascribed far too much thought into Joss’ motivations, but if nothing else, any and all deviations from her script with her family have a chance of raising suspicions she doesn’t want raised. If you think being a lesbian sympathizer isn’t going to go over well with the conservative establishment of a small town, think about the amount of immediate danger Joss would be in if she were ever outed before she has made a safe, clean break from the entire town? Being a gay ally is one thing, but a trans* person, in a place like that, from a family like that? She wouldn’t just be at risk from her family, anybody in that place might try to seriously hurt her. It could end up with a full-on lynch mob. Joss is meek, and scared, and is therefore understandably careful with how she handles her affairs, and if anybody is judging her for that they are seriously off their mark.

          • PlainMarie
            PlainMarie
            April 5, 2016 at 7:20 pm | #

            ^ Amen. Well said, HMH.

            • HMH
              HMH
              April 5, 2016 at 7:35 pm | #

              I do wish I was a bit nicer in retrospect, but I also wanted to be off-putting to try to highlight the actual gravity of this scenario, which might be lost on some people.

              • thejeff
                thejeff
                April 5, 2016 at 8:04 pm | #

                She could however fake it. Stay and talk to Joyce & Becky under the guise of “getting her to calm down”. And then try to make it clear to Joyce that while she supports her, it’s really best for both to try to stay low key.

                If only because a long car ride with John and/or talking to Mom in this state might be even more dangerous.

                • HMH
                  HMH
                  April 5, 2016 at 9:05 pm | #

                  Sounds like a wise plan to me, seems like we might be headed that way.

                • Marie
                  Marie
                  April 5, 2016 at 10:44 pm | #

                  This is what I’ve been hoping (or she at least keeps it under the implication of ‘that car is unchristian’ and not an unplanned ‘I’m an LGBQXYZ too, you snot’ no matter how satisfying it would be)

                • Liliet
                  Liliet
                  April 7, 2016 at 3:04 am | #

                  Yep.
                  She’s accusing John of being a hypocritical asshole without peeping a word in support of LGBT+ cause. She’s not breaking her relationship with her entire family but just leaving him and going to Joyce. Her secret is still safe.

    • zumpy
      zumpy
      April 5, 2016 at 12:08 am | #

      I can just feel the divide start in this family

      • slicey
        slicey
        April 5, 2016 at 5:15 am | #

        What I want Jocelyne to say”Forget about Becky for a minute. A man we have known or who life came to our sister’s school. Aimed a gun at her and her best friend. FIRED that gun into the air. Kidnapped her best friend at gun point from right next to her and after a series of very dangerous actions one of the only things our sister could do about all of this is hit the man who did all of this before he was arrested. Then instead of getting comfort and support from her family after a newer life ending event her family keeps focusing on one aspect of one of the victims and essentially siding with the man who could have and seemed willing to SHOOT AND KILLED HER. You say she needs to calm down but maybe…. you should be thinking about her and not Becky and getting angry.” Not going to happen but I can wish.

        And once more Fuck you John DIAF and I know we haven’t meet her but your wife must be a moron to marry you.

        • slicey
          slicey
          April 5, 2016 at 5:20 am | #

          Chuck autocorrect and 2 am posts ‘ known our whole life’ not know or who and ‘near life ending’ not newer life ending

        • quarktime
          quarktime
          April 5, 2016 at 10:15 am | #

          I think John’s feeling a little grab in the ol hypocrite jeans, as he sort of left the “T” out of the LGBQXYZ alphabet-soup there. Probably would have earned himself a clout in the ear if he’d put it in there, though, considering close company.

        • kelticat
          kelticat
          April 5, 2016 at 12:01 pm | #

          Kept thinking about that yesterday. How hypocritical John and his mother have been. “We support Ross because he is a part of our religious community.” Isn’t Joyce also a member of your religious community? As well as a member of your family?

          • Felgraf
            Felgraf
            April 5, 2016 at 6:38 pm | #

            Yes, but, see, Ross is a guy, and therefore More Right than Joyce (in John’s mind)

          • DudeMyDadOwnsADealership
            DudeMyDadOwnsADealership
            April 5, 2016 at 10:43 pm | #

            Yep. That’s probably what they’re afraid of facing psychologically. I mean, I don’t think Carol liked Ross *either.* She just wasn’t going to let that stand in the way of never being wrong.

    • AngryBamboo
      AngryBamboo
      April 5, 2016 at 12:25 am | #

      holy crap, is this a thing that happens?! I mean when i was a kid and was part of a christian (catholic) community we pitched in and bought our priest a car but that was a separate thing from the charity donations and he’d been a art of the community for decades at that point. is John even a pastor? or is he just a missionary? I admit i’m fuzzy on how it works in Protestant communities. I’m only catholic anymore when my grandma asks.

      • Antigone
        Antigone
        April 5, 2016 at 12:34 am | #

        There’s no Protestant vow of poverty, unlike in Catholicism. Unfortunately, I have a Catholic upbringing and don’t know any more than that.

      • Random832
        Random832
        April 5, 2016 at 12:46 am | #

        He probably works for one of those super-douchy tv churches that sends people envelopes asking them to “plant a seed”. Jocelyne didn’t necessarily misspeak when she said “tithings from the poor”.

        • SDGlyph
          SDGlyph
          April 5, 2016 at 1:18 am | #

          Yeah, I had automatically read it as for at first (‘cos that’s how my church works and how any sane system would be set up), but I caught it on the second read. It literally hadn’t occurred to me because what the ever-living fuck.

          That’s some televangelist / talk radio host level shit there, John.

        • Rutee
          Rutee
          April 5, 2016 at 1:41 am | #

          No, he’s a missionary in India, I suspect Jocelyne’s statement was basically correct. That money was supposed to come from the poor, to support a church, and he took it.

          I mean, probably legally, and probably on the grounds of ‘I didn’t need ALL of this money to set up a church in India, it’s cheap there”. Either way, whatever EXACT mechanism he used, there’s still no legitimate method for a missionary pastor to have a mustang that isn’t “I married into wealth” (Not actually impossible.)

      • espanolbot
        espanolbot
        April 5, 2016 at 1:23 am | #

        People buying themselves private jets with the donations they get from the poor, sick and elderly is a thing (justified by them NEEDING a private jet to preach, somehow), so someone getting a car out of the same folks isn’t that surprising.

      • TPman
        TPman
        April 5, 2016 at 2:37 am | #

        There is a looong history of (presumably not exclusively) American preachers getting rich off of donations, particularly among televised preachers (televangelists). Many American preachers don’t belong to any denomination and are beholden to no one.
        There is also a belief among many American eVANGELICALS THAT caps lock is the devil- material success correlates with god’s approval of you; essentially the poor wouldn’t be poor if they didn’t deserve it, and the same for the rich.
        It’s not a new or unknown phenomenon by any means. Now enjoy a topical rock song – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MixVbumoDWU

        • Needfuldoer
          Needfuldoer
          April 5, 2016 at 3:17 am | #

          Not to mention the Last Week Tonight monologue that introduced us to Our Lady of Perpetual Exemption.

          • Willoughby Chase
            Willoughby Chase
            April 5, 2016 at 7:12 am | #

            +1

          • Jack
            Jack
            April 5, 2016 at 9:04 am | #

            Which, of course, they later shut down not because they’d broken any laws but because the “seed” they’d been receiving had begun to include semen.

            • Kamino Neko
              Kamino Neko
              April 5, 2016 at 2:14 pm | #

              … Whyyyyyyy?

              • Needfuldoer
                Needfuldoer
                April 5, 2016 at 3:13 pm | #

                Because people will figure out a way to ruin anything nice.

        • Freemage
          Freemage
          April 5, 2016 at 10:23 am | #

          The term “Prosperity Gospel” is commonly used to describe this belief. It’s damnably toxic.

      • DudeMyDadOwnsADealership
        DudeMyDadOwnsADealership
        April 5, 2016 at 10:49 pm | #

        I’m going with ‘The Pastor’s Son-in-Law.’

  2. Foxhack
    Foxhack
    April 5, 2016 at 12:01 am | #

    DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMN.

    • inqntrol
      inqntrol
      April 5, 2016 at 12:02 am | #

      That burn. Well done Jocelyne!

      • heyman
        heyman
        April 5, 2016 at 12:08 am | #

        But John DESERVES that ‘Stang.

        • butts
          butts
          April 5, 2016 at 12:14 am | #

          Yeah, I don’t know what I was expecting after last time, but wooooooow. Fuck off, you prickmuffin. Fuck all the way off.

          • Tom Speelman
            Tom Speelman
            April 5, 2016 at 1:28 am | #

            He now gets all my hatred previously reserved for Mr. Brown.

            • Reltzik
              Reltzik
              April 5, 2016 at 2:21 am | #

              … ALL of them? You’ve got none left for Hank? None at all?

              I mean, yeah, John’s probably more deserving, but share the anti-love.

              • Falling Star
                Falling Star
                April 5, 2016 at 10:16 am | #

                I actually kinda like Hank.
                And I do believe John has been put right up there with Ross, Blaine, and Mary at the top of my “fuckin’ hate” list.

                • HMH
                  HMH
                  April 5, 2016 at 2:10 pm | #

                  I don’t think Hank has literally done much that would take him out of the “we should hate him without compassion or mercy” bubble, but he seems to be written distinctly more moderate than the rest of the family in a pointed way that suggests to me in a meta-narrative way that Willis could actually plan for him to, in the long run, come around to reason and recognize that he is on the wrong side of his family for his own interpretation of Jesus’ teachings, similar to how Joyce has. The mother is unsalvageable, John is unsalvageable, but maybe there is hope for dear old dad to be a decent human being.

                • Falling Star
                  Falling Star
                  April 5, 2016 at 2:56 pm | #

                  let’s all cross our fingers

          • Eldercat
            Eldercat
            April 5, 2016 at 10:41 am | #

            I am with you. Wow… so much.

          • Eldercat
            Eldercat
            April 5, 2016 at 10:46 am | #

            Wait, that’s not my account?

        • Needfuldoer
          Needfuldoer
          April 5, 2016 at 3:19 am | #

          I hope the eyeroll and jerking motion which go with that statement just didn’t translate to text…

        • Seer Of Rage
          Seer Of Rage
          April 5, 2016 at 2:22 pm | #

          Sarcasm?

    • An Average Loser
      An Average Loser
      April 5, 2016 at 12:03 am | #

      Savage AF!

      • Sambo
        Sambo
        April 5, 2016 at 12:05 am | #

        I like angry-Joyce savage, but I think I prefer impossible-to-recover-from sick-truth-burns savage

        • Adept Arcanist
          Adept Arcanist
          April 5, 2016 at 12:06 am | #

          If Jocelyn and Joyce did the Fusion Dance, the righteous, snarky fury would be absolutely unstoppable.

          • Shiro
            Shiro
            April 5, 2016 at 12:16 am | #

            “Go ahead and try to hit us if you’re able
            Can’t you see that our sisterhood is stable?
            You can tsk and preach and scoff and threaten hellfire,
            But we’ll knock you down with all the force of God’s ire”

            • Carriethedragon
              Carriethedragon
              April 5, 2016 at 12:20 am | #

              Yes!

            • Icalasari
              Icalasari
              April 5, 2016 at 12:44 am | #

              “And you’re not gonna snark at us two together,
              We are gonna stay like this forever.
              If you preach us apart, we’ll just quip back better,
              And we’ll always be twice the human you are.”

              (am i doin’ this right?)

              • Shiro
                Shiro
                April 5, 2016 at 12:55 am | #

                Thumbs up! 😀

                • hueloovoo
                  hueloovoo
                  April 5, 2016 at 8:30 am | #

                  I need this song on youtube. Just saying.

                • Falling Star
                  Falling Star
                  April 5, 2016 at 10:18 am | #

                  You guys have made my morning.

          • HK
            HK
            April 5, 2016 at 1:13 am | #

            Were you talking about DBZ, and everybody assumed it was Steven Universe, or were you talking about SU, and I assumed it was DBZ?

            • Falling Star
              Falling Star
              April 5, 2016 at 10:18 am | #

              Plot Twist: it was really A:tLA.

          • Kamino Neko
            Kamino Neko
            April 5, 2016 at 5:01 am | #

            And the constant misspelling Joycelyne would finally make sense!

    • Wheelpath
      Wheelpath
      April 5, 2016 at 12:04 am | #

      “Welcome to burn city, don’t let your privilege hit you on your way in”

  3. AnvilPro
    AnvilPro
    April 5, 2016 at 12:01 am | #

    Fun driving comics incoming!!

    • Falling Star
      Falling Star
      April 5, 2016 at 10:19 am | #

      AGAIN?!!

  4. Greatveiledbear
    Greatveiledbear
    April 5, 2016 at 12:02 am | #

    Oh DANG Jocelyn that was a SICK BURN

    • Nerd Herder
      Nerd Herder
      April 5, 2016 at 12:18 am | #

      That’s it, Jocelyne is basically me (if I weren’t a guy). Don’t take any of John’s bullshit, Jocelyne!

  5. Whittier
    Whittier
    April 5, 2016 at 12:02 am | #

    Go, Jocelyn!

  6. TrueVCU
    TrueVCU
    April 5, 2016 at 12:02 am | #

    Jocelyn landing some quality blows.

    I can only hope someone comes along to land some actual blows.

    • Reltzik
      Reltzik
      April 5, 2016 at 2:26 am | #

      They’re only quality blows if she actually got through John’s armor. I perceive it’s within the parameters of possibility, plausibility, and perhaps probability that John’s perpetually, permanently unperturbed by people pointing out his putridness.

      • Chrissy
        Chrissy
        April 5, 2016 at 4:46 am | #

        Jocelyne’s burn did not seem critical enough to affect the type of person who would gladly accept a mustang paid for from tithings, unfortunately.

        • Chrissy
          Chrissy
          April 5, 2016 at 4:47 am | #

          *effect!
          But I’m sure he’ll get self righteously angry about it, just not introspective or repentant.

          • Sageress
            Sageress
            April 5, 2016 at 12:39 pm | #

            You had it right the first time.

      • TrueVCU
        TrueVCU
        April 5, 2016 at 4:58 pm | #

        Don’t worry, I see what you did there

  7. Doctor_Who
    Doctor_Who
    April 5, 2016 at 12:02 am | #

    The hero we need.

    • inqntrol
      inqntrol
      April 5, 2016 at 12:07 am | #

      We haven’t seen her and Mar ie for a while. Wonder what they are up to.

      • inqntrol
        inqntrol
        April 5, 2016 at 12:08 am | #

        *Marcie

  8. Mr. Mendo
    Mr. Mendo
    April 5, 2016 at 12:02 am | #

    I do believe that’s the other shoe…

    • Russ
      Russ
      April 5, 2016 at 4:40 am | #

      Not yet! It’s falling but hasn’t hit the ground yet! Wait for John to suplex Joss for having an opinion in the next strip!

      (and then watch people defend him as not being that bad)

      • Falling Star
        Falling Star
        April 5, 2016 at 10:22 am | #

        About as intense as watching the ball fall in slow motion only to be received AGAIN.

  9. James Small
    James Small
    April 5, 2016 at 12:03 am | #

    Snap! Privilege checked.

  10. Pyro
    Pyro
    April 5, 2016 at 12:03 am | #

    Anyone else notice that Joyce’s family members that are more calm and understanding actually have eye color?

    • ailorn
      ailorn
      April 5, 2016 at 1:19 am | #

      Clearly blue eyed Browns are the superior Brown. 😉

    • zoelogical
      zoelogical
      April 5, 2016 at 2:24 am | #

      it’s mostly a coincidence because Willis gives kids the eyecolor of the parent of the opposite gender. which is a nice little hint for Jocelyn.

      • Kiapdx
        Kiapdx
        April 5, 2016 at 3:10 am | #

        It’s a design choice I appreciate for a variety of reasons. Partly because my sister & I got our father’s blue-gray eyes and my brothers got my mom’s dark brown eyes. Partly because it helps make it so children don’t just look like clones of their same-sex parent in simple art styles. And partly for that great nod to Joc’s gender 🙂

      • Kamino Neko
        Kamino Neko
        April 5, 2016 at 5:14 am | #

        We’ll see when Jordan appears, whether the reasonableness gene is attached to the same chromosome as the eye colour gene. (Unless Willis decides to mess with us and give him Hank’s eyes anyway.)

        • Liliet
          Liliet
          April 5, 2016 at 7:03 am | #

          Plot twist: Jordan is non binary. They have different colored eyes.

  11. Rob
    Rob
    April 5, 2016 at 12:03 am | #

    OH
    OHH
    *OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH*

    • Falling Star
      Falling Star
      April 5, 2016 at 10:23 am | #

      ^ All of the voices in my head right now.

  12. Ctrl+C D@
    Ctrl+C D@
    April 5, 2016 at 12:03 am | #

    And fuck yo’ shitty shoes too!

  13. Yumi
    Yumi
    April 5, 2016 at 12:03 am | #

    Gotta love how even when he’s adding random letter on, the T still gets left out.

    • Marie
      Marie
      April 5, 2016 at 12:04 am | #

      I was hoping someone else noticed. I wonder if Joss did (seeing as the letters probably weren’t her focus in this moment)

      • Yumi
        Yumi
        April 5, 2016 at 12:10 am | #

        Though now I’m imaging (like, really just imagining, don’t actually believe this is the case) that John didn’t include the T because he views it as different and not part of this “trendy” LGBQXYZ; he’s actually surprisingly pretty okay with the T.

        John: maybe only mostly an asshole

        • Briny
          Briny
          April 5, 2016 at 12:13 am | #

          I’m guessing it’s more like when people say “Black, White, Purple, whatever”. And everyone who isn’t black or white is all “Hey… you shot off into imaginary people before even thinking about us.”

          • Marie
            Marie
            April 5, 2016 at 1:37 am | #

            Yes, this

          • Cerberus
            Cerberus
            April 5, 2016 at 4:06 am | #

            Yup, it’s a microaggression. It’s a reminder that not only are you an unperson and viewed as total garbage by the bigot you’re talking to… you’re also less than that garbage, not even acknowledged, seen as something almost fictional.

            And it ends up being a reminder of how far your movement has to go and the itching knowledge that eventually once you’ve fought for years for visibility, you’ll rise to the position of being even more actively hated for what you are.

            (/what it feels like to be ace most days)

            • Mika
              Mika
              April 5, 2016 at 4:27 am | #

              Yeah. As evidenced by the fact that the response to the unparalleled trans visibility of 2015 was 2016’s unparalleled wave of legislative attempts to pass laws effectively banning our very existence in public or ability to lead public lives. Sometimes visibility fucking sucks, y’all.

        • Marie
          Marie
          April 5, 2016 at 12:15 am | #

          Nah, if it was intentional at all it’s because he doesn’t know what T is.

        • altalemur
          altalemur
          April 5, 2016 at 12:16 am | #

          LGBQXYZ is the super secret queer mathematics guild.

          • Thor
            Thor
            April 5, 2016 at 12:21 am | #

            As if queer mathematicians would only be satisified with three dimensions!

            • Harvey Janus
              Harvey Janus
              April 5, 2016 at 9:01 am | #

              We can’t put the symbol for the 4th dimension up in public. It would destroy the world.

          • SeanNOLA
            SeanNOLA
            April 5, 2016 at 4:17 pm | #

            Lesbian Gay Bisexual Queer Xenosexual YuGiOh Zoids

        • trlkly
          trlkly
          April 5, 2016 at 1:14 am | #

          Not John, who is just showing contempt, but that was me back in the day. I actually was under the mistaken idea that gay men were really women and lesbians were really men, and that trans people were just more honest about it.

          Yeah, I bought that being gay was wrong (from what I was taught), but being trans never seemed to be. Either they were sick, in which case it was horrible to have a problem with them, or they really were the other gender, and then of course they’d try to wear the other gender’s clothes. It would be sinful for them to do otherwise! (Yes, there really is such a scripture.)

          Don’t get me wrong. While I am still a Christian, I don’t believe any of the anti-gay or anti-clothing stuff today. I’m just discussing how I grew up.

          And I don’t think this applies to John at all. I didn’t even show that level of contempt towards gay people when I thought they were sinners.

          • Dana
            Dana
            April 5, 2016 at 2:55 am | #

            I’m anti-clothing and I’m not even religious.

            • RIP12081990
              RIP12081990
              April 5, 2016 at 4:13 am | #

              So are all naturalists be us black, white, Chinese, Indian, native American, Asian, gay, straight, bi, trans, asexual, or any other race, gender, orientation you can think of

              • RIP12081990
                RIP12081990
                April 5, 2016 at 4:16 am | #

                Naturists not naturalists my mobile always something like this when I forget autocorrect is on

                • Harvey Janus
                  Harvey Janus
                  April 5, 2016 at 9:03 am | #

                  My only problem with naturism is that I wouldn’t be able to get through the day without laughing like a maniac. For some reason I cannot think of boobs as anything but hilarious and I think it might be a problem.

          • Freemage
            Freemage
            April 5, 2016 at 11:54 am | #

            I’ve encountered at least one trans woman who was virulently homophobic, insisting that gay men were all secretly trans women, and vice-versa. (The notion of a trans lesbian, for instance, was completely unthinkable to her, as was the idea of bisexuality as anything other than a sign the person was simply a deviant of the highest order.)

            In addition to the religious aspect trikly refers to, there’s also the fact that for many trans people, especially in conservative areas, the gatekeeping to get your trans status approved is intense, and rife with gender-policing. If you find a doctor willing to sign the forms at all, you frequently have to prove yourself to be an idyllic form of your true gender, as determined by traditional roles. So trans women are expected to be ultra-feminine housewives, while trans men have to be uber-masculine alpha males.

            • Havtorn
              Havtorn
              April 5, 2016 at 12:58 pm | #

              I was a bit shocked the first time I met a gay man who claimed that bisexuals were just faking it. Since then I learned that that has been a not uncommon “thing”. Before that point I had assumed that the LGBTQ-community were all sort of on the same page, but of course it’s going to have a ton of internal biases because everyone’s just people, after all.

              • Spencer
                Spencer
                April 5, 2016 at 1:54 pm | #

                I’ve read that a lot of bi kids are at significant more risk of mental health illness than usual, stemming from the idea that they can get shit from within the Queer community as well as out of it when we’ve built it up to be a safe haven of tolerance and understanding.

              • Freemage
                Freemage
                April 5, 2016 at 7:15 pm | #

                Part of that one stems from the unfortunate nature of ‘coming out’ in parts of this country. Since conservatives insist that being gay is a choice, then one consequence of that is that if you aren’t straight, you’re gay. So a kid in a situation like Becky’s has a romantic relationship (or even just recognizes the attraction) and decides they must be homosexual. (Note that neither Becky nor Joyce seems to have heard of the concept of a bisexual in their pre-comic lives.)

                So, they go through the whole coming-out process, including lots of intense emotions and counseling and group struggles and so on. And they get to be in a lot of other people’s lives as well. Then they fall for someone of the opposite sex, and everyone is confused, and maybe former same-sex lovers feel betrayed/deceived. It’s a situation where ignorance of how this all actually works leads to a lot of confusion and doubt.

                So, stories like that get passed around the gay community (usually only from one side), and pretty soon you get, “There’s no such thing as bisexual.”

                • thejeff
                  thejeff
                  April 5, 2016 at 7:30 pm | #

                  There’s also a thing where people aren’t quite willing to fully embrace being gay and try to hang on to some normalcy or just continuity be thinking of themselves as bi, but eventually admit that they’re really only interested in the same sex. Then they or those who’ve watched them go through that, try to help others accept they’re actually gay.
                  Which does happen and is even well-intentioned, but still contributes to bi-erasure.

                • Spencer
                  Spencer
                  April 5, 2016 at 7:54 pm | #

                  The problem, of course, is when those folks who were gay but “tried to hold onto normalcy” deny bisexuality as a valid sexual orientation.

                  This view of bisexuality as a half measure until admitting you were really gay all along and nothing previous mattered is a huge component of the bi-erasure epidemic.

                • thejeff
                  thejeff
                  April 5, 2016 at 8:09 pm | #

                  Absolutely. But it is a thing that happens and it’s understandable when they think others are going through the same process. Wrong, but understandable. Less so in this day and age which is far more open about such things than even a decade or so ago. At least once people are past the Dan/Becky “Is that even a thing?” stage.

                • Spencer
                  Spencer
                  April 5, 2016 at 8:24 pm | #

                  Lots of bigotry is understandable. It still hurts and it should still be squashed out so people never have to go through that “is that even a thing” stage.

    • Ctrl+C D@
      Ctrl+C D@
      April 5, 2016 at 12:09 am | #

      He also left out a bunch of other letters.

      Dumbass never learned his ABC’s yet he’s callin’ Joyce a kid, shaw right.
      [/wittysarcasm]

    • caesaria82
      caesaria82
      April 5, 2016 at 12:12 am | #

      Oooooh. That is such an interesting detail. Kudos, Willis.

    • CapedLuigisYoshi
      CapedLuigisYoshi
      April 5, 2016 at 12:14 am | #

      …oh wow. It’s a small thing, but… wow.

    • Ana Chronistic
      Ana Chronistic
      April 5, 2016 at 12:15 am | #

      I noticed but that’s coincidentally around the point where most people stop remembering the rest, or pretend not to remember the rest because it proves they actually recognize it all

      though it would be super-weird to be okay with trans* but NONE OF THE REST–that’s like skipping some steps

      • Random832
        Random832
        April 5, 2016 at 12:53 am | #

        > though it would be super-weird to be okay with trans* but NONE OF THE REST–that’s like skipping some steps

        Well, AIUI that’s the situation in Iran (at least, on the official level – the general population isn’t necessarily any more progressive than here).

        • Rutee
          Rutee
          April 5, 2016 at 1:59 am | #

          It’s a cure for homosexuality, but it’s also totally a thing (And probably better accepted there than here, since even as a top-down dictate it still is unlikely to have remained in effect for 2 decades without at least broad support (Even among the rural people, since the people of the cities are generally more liberal than those who live in the states).

          I mean, the general population of Iran isn’t more progressive than that of the states – IE if you count rural and rural. But it’s by no means some enormous gap that Meriken simply automatically win like they tend to imagine. Which is pretty true as a rule, afaik.

          • Random832
            Random832
            April 5, 2016 at 1:05 pm | #

            Well my impression and what I was getting at is that it’s about as accepted there as homosexuality is here, which is, you know, not great, esp. when you look at rural people or conservatives, but the contrast basically shows that intolerance (and partial/incomplete progression of tolerance on a societal level) comes in all sorts of flavors and you can’t really generalize there being “steps” or that accepting trans people is automatically a “higher level” than accepting gay people.

            • Rutee
              Rutee
              April 5, 2016 at 6:33 pm | #

              They do more surgery than thailand. Thailand is one of the most common places for Westerners to go (and plenty, even in more accepting countries, will still go to thailand). I’m sure it’s still not great, but there’s only so much room for this handwringing about how it’s ‘like the USA’.

      • Cerberus
        Cerberus
        April 5, 2016 at 4:09 am | #

        Content warning: Homophobia

        Oh, it’s not just that.

        It’s partially intentional. Folks like John do not believe in trans people. Trans people are just “extreme versions of gay people”. Like someone gays so hard they become a trans person. As such, of course they are not going to honor it, because in their eyes a (slur for gay male) is a (slur for gay male).

        • Thorbjorn
          Thorbjorn
          April 5, 2016 at 5:45 am | #

          Don’t forget, all the people just putting it aside as a mental disease and it should be cured with Pimozide or something like that. In my experience that is the kind of opinion you meet when talking with “Intellectuals” any way.

        • Just Saying
          Just Saying
          April 5, 2016 at 8:26 am | #

          “Someone gays so hard they become a trans person.”

          That made me laugh in a really darkly amused way. I have been gaying all over the place for many years and still no penis 🙁 Gotta keep buyin’ em at the store.

          Sorry if insensitive, but sometimes I really think all the shitty nonsense bigots believe is ridiculous enough to be a joke. <3

          • chiscii
            chiscii
            April 5, 2016 at 10:12 am | #

            Laughing at other people’s utterly irrational, unwavering stupidity is one of the most benign forms of dark humor probably. It may make you seem a bit insensitive but at least you’re not being actively offensive.

        • Li
          Li
          April 5, 2016 at 1:22 pm | #

          Actually historically it’s always been the other way around; LBGA people were all violating our traditional gender roles, by not wanting to marry and have kids in the Proper Heteronormative Fashion. So we were seen as “basically trans”, rather than trans folk being seen as “basically gay”.

          I mean, transphobic cis LGBs have done a bang up job of trying to shift the umbrella so as to make same-gender attraction (esp. exclusive same-gender attraction) the primary reason for oppression, so that we can uh I guess feel more important and authoritative as we try to toss other people out of “”our”” movement for not being gay enough… but yeah, historically it’s not true. And in terms of which groups of us suffer the most extreme effects of LGBTQIAphobia, it’s pretty clear that it’s still not true. A white cis gay man is not, in fact, the most at-risk demographic.

          • thejeff
            thejeff
            April 5, 2016 at 1:40 pm | #

            All of which, while certainly true, is also part of the even larger shift in our approach to gender roles, started by the early feminist movements.

            • Li
              Li
              April 5, 2016 at 4:03 pm | #

              Sure, though I wouldn’t be so quick to say “started by feminists” as if there was no overlap? See: the Spinster Movement, which was made up of LBA and feminist women. Feminism, asexuality, and WLW all united in an attempt to fight back.

          • Spencer
            Spencer
            April 5, 2016 at 1:57 pm | #

            The idea of bigotry from within the Queer community always truck me as one of the saddest things I’ve ever heard.

            • Li
              Li
              April 5, 2016 at 4:07 pm | #

              Seconded, but there will always be people who react to oppression by trying to oppress someone else even more vulnerable than they are 🙁

          • epochryphal
            epochryphal
            April 5, 2016 at 7:47 pm | #

            HALLELUJAH, these words. I am sick to death of the sga model tacking on “or you could be trans I guess, then you can be part of the community too” as if…. the reason for being targeted is and always has been sga…..

            Plus it’s incredibly obviously about excluding people (particularly aces).

            • Li
              Li
              April 6, 2016 at 11:00 am | #

              /stands up for my ace and aro honorary siblings forever

              I know it doesn’t always feel like this, but I swear to you: some of us recognize that the gatekeeping crap being lobbed your way right now is exactly the same transphobic and biphobic crap we’ve rejected before (are still rejecting now), and are only more determined to not tolerate it being used again.

              You are valid and real and important and that you’ve been deliberately erased from history doesn’t make you any less deserving of a seat at the table.

          • Cerberus
            Cerberus
            April 5, 2016 at 11:15 pm | #

            True, very true. Which I think makes it easier for bigots to lump us all together (and is the reason that trans and other queer rights have always been intertwined). In their eyes, we’re all “sinning” against “proper gender roles” and trans people are just “sinning” harder than the rest.

            And it tends to all stem from the same pit of anxious toxic masculinity, terrified that the separation between men and women isn’t the uncrossable gaping chasm they want it to be.

            • Li
              Li
              April 6, 2016 at 11:07 am | #

              YEP. I think the thing to remember when looking at how we’re categorized is to remember that the cis straight dyadic hegemony has never given the tiniest of craps about how we differ from each other or why; we are all, have always been, weird and wrong to them. That’s why we were all “queer”. Because we failed the test for “normal”, because we our non-normality was incredibly threatening for their concept of society; not because we were specifically some degree of gay. And they sure as heck didn’t care to distinguish between someone exclusively gay and someone ace, because both had the same result of not wanting to get married and have kids.

        • Hollis
          Hollis
          April 5, 2016 at 7:34 pm | #

          But that’s why I’m nonbinary–maximum gay! Feelings for a dude? It’s gay. Feelings for a lady? Also gay. Feelings for another nb person? Super mega gay. Maximum gay: achieved. (I mean I’m also ace which people loooooove like to bring up to invalidate 100% of that, but only if they’re an asshat)

          • Cerberus
            Cerberus
            April 5, 2016 at 11:18 pm | #

            INFINITE GAY!

          • Athedia
            Athedia
            April 6, 2016 at 10:44 am | #

            Oh I have gotten the “How is your “boyfriend”” from people. They literally do air quotes. So tempting to respond that “he is getting further than you ever will.”

            Or the one I get from the a bunch of the kids at the college Queer Alliance, “You are just afraid to come out as gay.” Well no honey, I am biromantic and open about it, and most people I know would give me less shit for being gay.

      • Freemage
        Freemage
        April 5, 2016 at 7:17 pm | #

        Actually, I became “okay with trans” back in the ’80s, long before I became a decent human being on this stuff. It was a case of my sexism and homophobia beating up my transphobia. See, there was this James Bond Girl named Tula, who was trans, who did nude photo spreads. Somewhere, deep in my mind while flipping through the magazine, I came to the conclusion that either she was a woman, or I was gay–and being gay in the 80s was simply unacceptable even as a remote thought, so “trans woman = woman” it was.

        Rightest decision for wrongest reasons, ever.

    • winter
      winter
      April 5, 2016 at 12:17 am | #

      I thought the omission was startling as well.

      I wonder if it’s because he’s somehow sensitive to Jocelyne’s “T”-ness. Or it’s just a mistake or erasure.

      • Shade
        Shade
        April 5, 2016 at 12:30 am | #

        Given his current attitude, what do you think the odds are that he knows at all?

        Seems more likely to me that he just doesn’t care enough to actually know the full acronym.

        • DSL
          DSL
          April 5, 2016 at 12:56 am | #

          Bingo. “This isn’t even worth me taking it seriously enough to be accurate about it.”

        • winter
          winter
          April 5, 2016 at 1:03 am | #

          I agree that that’s more likely. But, riddle me this…

          Which is more interesting: Somebody who’s a bigot through and through? Or somebody who’s a bigot through and through, yet practices some bizarre form of mental gymnastics such that they can support their trans (and straight!) sister Jocelyne, but reject the rest of the lgbt+ community on the basis of being sinning trend-chasers that are distracting from the only important issue, the one that effects the people I know personally?

          • Needfuldoer
            Needfuldoer
            April 5, 2016 at 3:26 am | #

            “They’re all terrible except for tnis one individual in particular because I know them personally” is a logic contortion in many circles.

            • HMH
              HMH
              April 5, 2016 at 2:25 pm | #

              But frankly, if that were John’s exact attitude towards Joss, I wouldn’t take it as any sort of kindness or concession. It would simply be him choosing to specifically pardon his sister’s sin, while still fully internally believing that Joss is an abomination and subhuman, for either the sake of appearances or being utterly incapable of expanding his worldview beyond his privileged existence. That makes him a special kind of asshole, and a complete and total hypocrite.

              • fogel
                fogel
                April 5, 2016 at 10:26 pm | #

                Yes and as if she needs his pardon for being herself.

          • Gobbledorf
            Gobbledorf
            April 5, 2016 at 1:38 pm | #

            I agree that it would be incredibly interesting if John were consciously sensitive towards Jocelyn. Unfortunately, with him addressing them as “Josh” in yesterday’s strip, it’s likely that John either isn’t aware of Joss’s situation, or (worse) he does know and is entirely dismissive of it.

          • Lovely Monsters
            Lovely Monsters
            April 5, 2016 at 9:43 pm | #

            Interestingly, I got it from an acquaintance of a friend of James Dobson, the founder and erstwhile president of Focus on the Family, that dear Dr Dobson believes just this. Trans people have a physical problem (i.e., being born into a body with a sex that doesn’t match who they are) and should be accepted and supported, but gay people have a sexual perversion that they indulge. So yeah. Apparently it’s a thing.

        • Falling Star
          Falling Star
          April 5, 2016 at 10:26 am | #

          Benzene is awesome.
          ‘Kay, bye.

      • Orion Fury
        Orion Fury
        April 5, 2016 at 2:02 am | #

        I don’t think I knew ‘T’ was a part of the acronym until a couple of years ago. If I was to have ‘Alphabet Soup’ the acronym, I’ve of done the same.Hell, I don’t think I even realized that the ‘T’ part of it was a thing at all, and my life was only partly sheltered. Perhaps John doesn’t know Trans people exist as well.

        • Liliet
          Liliet
          April 5, 2016 at 7:10 am | #

          I grew up knowing “LGBT” without actually knowing the deciphering. I also knew “LGBT+” and “LGBTQ” (and “LGBTQ+”). Everything past that just disintegrates into alphabet soup for me… I prefer MOGAI XD

          • Kryss LaBryn
            Kryss LaBryn
            April 5, 2016 at 10:44 am | #

            QUILTBAG for me. More fun to say; harder to leave anyone out. 😀

            • Orion Fury
              Orion Fury
              April 5, 2016 at 5:21 pm | #

              QUILTBAG does seem more fun, but seeing it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Think I’ve heard the term ‘queerbag’ used as an insult to a bi friend before.

              • epochryphal
                epochryphal
                April 5, 2016 at 7:49 pm | #

                Part of why I like QUILTBAGPIPE 😀

                (Pansexual, Intersex again because they get left out so much, Polyamorous, and Everyone Else we forgot)

    • Bagge
      Bagge
      April 5, 2016 at 12:53 am | #

      Ouch, yeah, and that was absolutely not lost on Jocelyne.

    • Athedia
      Athedia
      April 5, 2016 at 1:19 am | #

      And the A, please don’t forget about us….

      And no, it does NOT mean Ally.

      • Cerberus
        Cerberus
        April 5, 2016 at 4:11 am | #

        Well, duh, it’s stands for… uh… um… “aren’t we glad we didn’t miss anyone?”, right?

        (/sarcasm because I’m also totally ace)

    • Liliet
      Liliet
      April 5, 2016 at 7:07 am | #

      Between the regular “A is for Ally!” and preferring MOGAI for that exact reason, I actually didn’t notice.

      John is truly a neverending deliverer of miracles

    • hueloovoo
      hueloovoo
      April 5, 2016 at 8:12 am | #

      Truth in fiction. Truest truth in any fiction ever.

    • weirderthanweird
      weirderthanweird
      April 5, 2016 at 8:37 am | #

      I’m just surprised he got the LGBQ part.

      • chiscii
        chiscii
        April 5, 2016 at 10:15 am | #

        I’m surprised that he knows about the alphabet soup. Normally people just stick with “the gays”

        • Falling Star
          Falling Star
          April 5, 2016 at 10:26 am | #

          I’m surprised he cares.

        • HMH
          HMH
          April 5, 2016 at 2:30 pm | #

          He has no reason to actually learn or internalize everything, but due to being younger and also the importance of keeping up his appearance as a stoic and learned moral paragon of his ministry, he has to pretend to make an effort such that he differentiates himself from the more openly bigoted people with whom he agrees, yet must look and feel superior towards. By learning anything at all, he’s satisfied himself with his own exploration of the topic because he knows that he knows more about “that sort of trendy nonsense” than his peer group, which is exactly the same in his mind as actually giving the concepts and ideas an actual, critical, fair shake.

  14. Hawke
    Hawke
    April 5, 2016 at 12:03 am | #

    Good GOD, Jocelyn! That burn wasn’t even HUMANE!

    Nice work.

    • Needfuldoer
      Needfuldoer
      April 5, 2016 at 8:37 am | #

      So savage she should be busting myths on TV.

  15. Marie
    Marie
    April 5, 2016 at 12:03 am | #

    YEAHHHHHHH JOCELYNE IN FOR THE KILL

  16. David Herbert
    David Herbert
    April 5, 2016 at 12:03 am | #

    Wrong person to lecture to, Johnny-boy.

  17. FuryOfFirestorm
    FuryOfFirestorm
    April 5, 2016 at 12:03 am | #

    Oh shit – Jocelyne is bringing out the receipts, because it’s time to get payback.

    • Falling Star
      Falling Star
      April 5, 2016 at 10:27 am | #

      John better pull out his aloe, ’cause he’ll need it for those burns!

  18. Slartibeast Button, BIA
    Slartibeast Button, BIA
    April 5, 2016 at 12:04 am | #

    I trust that they were only drinking water, so they didn’t just run out on the check.

    • Briny
      Briny
      April 5, 2016 at 12:22 am | #

      I don’t think they got to the “ordering” phase. I don’t know this restaurant chain, but I doubt they’re out more than some water and maybe some rolls or something.

      • Dana
        Dana
        April 5, 2016 at 2:59 am | #

        I love the idea that now that they’re gone Joyce and Becky are kicking back and perusing the menu.

        • thejeff
          thejeff
          April 5, 2016 at 6:59 am | #

          And in half an hour, once they’ve eaten (Chicken fingers after all), they come out to find John and Jocelyne still in a screaming match in the parking lot.

  19. Parismio
    Parismio
    April 5, 2016 at 12:04 am | #

    Ooh sick burn brah.

  20. Jay Eff
    Jay Eff
    April 5, 2016 at 12:04 am | #

    Well, well– I can see John is going to be even more “popular” around here after reading today’s strip!

    • Doctroid
      Doctroid
      April 5, 2016 at 12:08 am | #

      If I were in a room with John and Toedad, I honestly suspect I’d punch John first.

      At least Toedad didn’t pretend there was no gun, kidnapping, and death threats involved.

      • Ellen
        Ellen
        April 5, 2016 at 2:58 am | #

        Toedad is Voldemort; John is Umbridge.

        • Will
          Will
          April 5, 2016 at 4:22 am | #

          I can totally see John forcing Joyce to write something like “I won’t say angry things” in her own hand.

          • Harvey Janus
            Harvey Janus
            April 5, 2016 at 9:11 am | #

            And then Joyce and Becky leave him to a herd of the destitute, lesbians, and gay men as he begs for help.

            • Falling Star
              Falling Star
              April 5, 2016 at 10:28 am | #

              He never recovers and screams every time he sees red hair.

    • kelticat
      kelticat
      April 5, 2016 at 12:14 pm | #

      Do you think the comments will exceed yesterday’s?
      Looks like there is a strong chance of it.

  21. chris73
    chris73
    April 5, 2016 at 12:04 am | #

    Wow, just wow…is that like a thing that you get a new car for being a missionary?

    I really now virtually nothing about the workings of churchs and missionaries but this seems…excessive

    • LeslieBean4Shizzle
      LeslieBean4Shizzle
      April 5, 2016 at 12:07 am | #

      Ninjaed.
      And yeah, I’ve never heard of this, but then I don’t know any fundie missionary types. It seems rather less than charitable.

    • tim gueguen
      tim gueguen
      April 5, 2016 at 12:08 am | #

      Could be a Prosperity Gospel thing of some sort. An American evangelist, Creflo Dollar, has been getting a lot of press in recent months because he wants his congregation to donate funds for a 60 million buck bizjet for supposed evangelisation purposes.

      • Wanderso
        Wanderso
        April 5, 2016 at 12:13 am | #

        He got the jet, actually. Oh, and the home they own are tax-free.

      • Roborat
        Roborat
        April 5, 2016 at 2:48 pm | #

        Yea, because apparently his previous jet was too old or too small.

    • Schpoonman
      Schpoonman
      April 5, 2016 at 12:09 am | #

      That’s been a controversial point in the news before. The tithe goes to the church and is supposed to be used to spread the word of God… But if the preacher gets a fancy new car, well, if it helps him proselytize, who cares?

      • Ctrl+C D@
        Ctrl+C D@
        April 5, 2016 at 12:13 am | #

        Satan’s already got all that cool hellfire and shit, Pastor’s gotta’ have something to up the cool factor.

        “HEY KIDS LOOK! A NEW WATERSLIDE!”

        • Disloyal Subject
          Disloyal Subject
          April 5, 2016 at 12:23 am | #

          A… holy waterslide?

          • Bicycle Bill
            Bicycle Bill
            April 5, 2016 at 12:25 am | #

            Makes baptisms a whole lot more fun.

            • Dean
              Dean
              April 5, 2016 at 12:38 am | #

              That holy waterslide is for killing vampires only, and don’t you forget it!

            • Just Saying
              Just Saying
              April 5, 2016 at 8:29 am | #

              Look…if there is a waterslide involved I am gettin’ baptised. I might need four or five turns on the slide just to make sure it takes.

              • chiscii
                chiscii
                April 5, 2016 at 10:20 am | #

                “I still feel like a godless gay heathen, can I get baptized again?”

      • Bicycle Bill
        Bicycle Bill
        April 5, 2016 at 12:25 am | #

        … if the preacher gets a fancy new car (or $60M jet), well, if it helps him proselytize, who cares?
        —————————
        It is beyond amazing just how people will twist the word of God when they need it to support their particular position, desire, or lifestyle.

        • Havtorn
          Havtorn
          April 5, 2016 at 1:20 pm | #

          I wouldn’t stretch to “Amazing”, really. Considering how many words they are and the it all has the verifiability of a fortune cookie it’s really a wonder that people have managed to form large consensuses at all.

    • Slartibeast Button, BIA
      Slartibeast Button, BIA
      April 5, 2016 at 12:14 am | #

      You throw all the money up in the air, and God grabs what he needs, and the rest is yours.

    • YooHoo
      YooHoo
      April 5, 2016 at 12:19 am | #

      My cousins-in-law got a house. It came with their pastorate. The whole thing makes me kinda queasy.

      • chris73
        chris73
        April 5, 2016 at 12:24 am | #

        Were they given it or are they living in it rent free?

      • SmilingNid
        SmilingNid
        April 5, 2016 at 12:36 am | #

        A parsonage is fairly standard going back to at least the middle ages. It means that there is a place fro the pastor near the church and is a relatively sound investment for a fair size church as it can reduce the pastors needed salary, especially once the building is paid off it can reduce. In the churches that rotate pastors like the United Methodist it also save an incoming pastor from taking out a mortgage every few years.

        • Jenny Islander
          Jenny Islander
          April 5, 2016 at 1:16 am | #

          Of course, traditionally, it’s never actually the preacher’s house. They can’t even change the carpet without permission.

        • Chia
          Chia
          April 5, 2016 at 11:36 am | #

          And parsonages aren’t usually McMansions. I grew up as a PK (ELCA Lutheran), and I remember the fun that ensued when it was discovered that the basement wall of the parsonage was visibly bowing inwards. Time for committees, which always move fast!

          • Urukak
            Urukak
            April 5, 2016 at 4:54 pm | #

            I literally could have written this entire comment. Are you me (or one of my five siblings)?

      • trlkly
        trlkly
        April 5, 2016 at 1:26 am | #

        Yeah, that’s not a big deal. It’s a house that they have for the pastor, and it’s a lot cheaper than paying him to have a large enough salary to actually buy a house. And he gets to be nearby, so he can get to the church quickly–which not only helps the parishioners, but also keeps transportation costs down.

        You can’t literally have all the money coming to the church be spent on the poor–unless everyone working there is independently wealthy. That’s not really the issue. The issue is, as Joss pointed out, that a brand new car is not remotely necessary for his mission in India. Especially not a car that is back her in America.

        Letting him borrow a car while he’s back would make sense, but a brand new car? That is just wasteful. And makes me think he’s not even the type of missionary who has to work when he comes back home.

      • Pat
        Pat
        April 5, 2016 at 7:12 pm | #

        Unless it’s a particularly nice house, I’m not sure why that’s odd or controversial. Pastor needs a place to live, don’t ‘e?

    • SmilingNid
      SmilingNid
      April 5, 2016 at 12:29 am | #

      I would like to take a small amount of pride in saying no mission or congregation I have been a part of was ever that wasteful. It really is amazing just how fast my opinion of John sank. I really wanted to like him.

      • Dean
        Dean
        April 5, 2016 at 12:39 am | #

        Yeah, I wanted him to be an okay person too. Not necessarily perfect, but generally sympathetic.

      • Harvey Janus
        Harvey Janus
        April 5, 2016 at 9:16 am | #

        I remember one priest get a car that expensive from our church… Three days later when I saw him at school for Wednesday mass he had sold it and was giving the money to the school for some to quote “new god damn paint” for the drama department. The uniforms it bought for the basketball team were… Infuriating.

    • Smiling Cat
      Smiling Cat
      April 5, 2016 at 1:00 am | #

      Depends on the missionaries and the people backing them.

  22. Stephen R. Bierce
    Stephen R. Bierce
    April 5, 2016 at 12:04 am | #

    *plays the Osmond Brothers’ “Crazy Horses” on a passing car’s stereo*

    • Stephen R. Bierce
      Stephen R. Bierce
      April 5, 2016 at 12:14 am | #

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K48WZaA3rlA <- For your listening pleasure.

      • Sokol
        Sokol
        April 5, 2016 at 12:19 am | #

        Yes. This is good.

      • Falling Star
        Falling Star
        April 5, 2016 at 10:32 am | #

        Niiiiice.

  23. Luzahn
    Luzahn
    April 5, 2016 at 12:04 am | #

    Woo Jocelyne! I’m glad she’s getting some in. Now let’s see if John’s a jerk enough to leave her here.

    My money’s on no, but only because he needs a captive audience to criticize for a bit. Probably gets antsy if he can’t do that every few minutes.

    • heyman
      heyman
      April 5, 2016 at 12:17 am | #

      Yeah, John needs to explain how, even from his viewpoint, his sister shouldn’t be upset at having a rifle pointed at her.

      • Orion Fury
        Orion Fury
        April 5, 2016 at 2:06 am | #

        “My sister was almost killed, how can I make this about me?”

        • HMH
          HMH
          April 5, 2016 at 2:35 pm | #

          I don’t think that’s accurate. I think in his case he may be blind enough to his own inherent hypocrisy that it’s more like “my sister was almost killed, but it was the direct consequence of her sins, and she needs to learn the lesson that God is trying to teach her with His Plan.”

    • SonicBlueRanger
      SonicBlueRanger
      April 5, 2016 at 9:57 am | #

      Oh, John will definitely leave her behind.

  24. Kelli
    Kelli
    April 5, 2016 at 12:04 am | #

    Oh snap!

  25. Danlin
    Danlin
    April 5, 2016 at 12:04 am | #

    Jocelyn. You fucking go girl.

    That was so needed to be said at that moment.

    • Falling Star
      Falling Star
      April 5, 2016 at 10:35 am | #

      There needs to be a group consisting of Joyce, Becky, Ethan, Danny, Walky, Dorothy, Billie, Ruth, Marcie, Carla, and Malaya standing behind her going “OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH” every time she says something boss.

  26. Mandy
    Mandy
    April 5, 2016 at 12:05 am | #

    I am so angry at this condescending fucker that I can’t even articulate how much I hate him. I’m just seething.

    • Slartibeast Button, BIA
      Slartibeast Button, BIA
      April 5, 2016 at 12:07 am | #

      Well, getting angry just proves you are wrong, right?

    • AeromechanicalAce
      AeromechanicalAce
      April 5, 2016 at 12:09 am | #

      I can. I’d like to knock his smug, condescending teeth so far in he’ll be chewing with his colon.

      Seriously, that, ‘life is hard, so i don’t NEED to have sympathy for others’ right wing attitude makes me mad as hell too.

      • Emperor Norton II
        Emperor Norton II
        April 5, 2016 at 12:16 am | #

        -Especially- when their own life is anything but hard.

        • Willoughby Chase
          Willoughby Chase
          April 5, 2016 at 3:57 am | #

          +1

      • HMH
        HMH
        April 5, 2016 at 2:37 pm | #

        I can’t say any of the things I truly think/would like to see visited upon this family which would embarrass even the Old Testament God. This seems like a nice enough place, and I don’t much want to be banned from commenting over it.

    • heyman
      heyman
      April 5, 2016 at 12:10 am | #

      Let’s discuss this later when you can be reasonable, mmkay?

      • Opus the Poet
        Opus the Poet
        April 5, 2016 at 12:53 am | #

        How ’bout I “reasonably” rearrange his face with my cane. I have to have it to walk to the bus stop or farther, might as well put it to good use.

        • Pat
          Pat
          April 5, 2016 at 7:16 pm | #

          …is walking to the bus stop or father not good use?

    • caesaria82
      caesaria82
      April 5, 2016 at 12:13 am | #

      Same. Urge to punch someting – rising.

    • Undrave
      Undrave
      April 5, 2016 at 12:35 am | #

      I feel like I should be inventing words or something myself.

      • Falling Star
        Falling Star
        April 5, 2016 at 10:36 am | #

        Behold, the next Shakespeare.

        • Havtorn
          Havtorn
          April 5, 2016 at 1:33 pm | #

          Fie! Though Jocelyne’s burneth wast very much hot, joshua yet stands unbearably entithl’d.

    • Orion Fury
      Orion Fury
      April 5, 2016 at 2:07 am | #

      Might I recommend a series of three *snaps?

  27. LiamAldam
    LiamAldam
    April 5, 2016 at 12:05 am | #

    What sucks is he’s not all wrong. Actions have consequences is a prime lesson in college.

    • Leorale
      Leorale
      April 5, 2016 at 12:08 am | #

      The problem is that he’s the one making the consequences. Like, being a lesbian needn’t have consequences, except that people like John and Ross are utterly horrible assholes about it.

      • Greatveiledbear
        Greatveiledbear
        April 5, 2016 at 12:14 am | #

        You know, it’s actually incredible how little he seems to care for Joyce (and Becky, but Joyce is his SISTER so it’s more surprising). Does he even realize her life was literally in danger? She had a friggin rifle aimed at her. Does he somehow not realize that? Does he not care?

        • Wanderso
          Wanderso
          April 5, 2016 at 12:21 am | #

          Trust me, it’s the ‘not care’ one.

        • Foxhack
          Foxhack
          April 5, 2016 at 12:21 am | #

          Nope ’cause in their bigoted little heads, it was all their fault for being what they are.

          You know.

          Decent human beings.

        • timemonkey
          timemonkey
          April 5, 2016 at 12:51 am | #

          If he acknowledges she has a genuine point it strengthens her position and weakens his. Suddenly the lesbian is in the right and the fundy is in the wrong for acting on his beliefs.

        • Lapin
          Lapin
          April 5, 2016 at 1:27 am | #

          It’s not that he doesn’t care, exactly. It’s that he thinks Ross was in the right to remove Becky from school and make plans for her to be sent to a “correction” camp, and Joyce was in the wrong to deceive a parent (and ngl, Ross being an older man does factor in in this particular sect, and Joyce defying him was beyond wrong to someone like John) when the parent was simply trying to protect their child. (Even though Ross’ form of “parenting” was abuse and kidnapping at gunpoint)

          In his line of thinking, Joyce isn’t an adult protecting another adult/friend, Joyce is a dumb little kid lying to the adults to protect a sinful, entitled brat from the “loving correction” of their betters, and they drove Ross to his extreme actions.

          So everything Ross did is Becky’s fault, and partly Joyce’s, and they should feel bad for driving Ross to it and getting Ross in trouble, and then daring to act like they were in the right.

          If you’ll excuse me, I need to go take a shower and scrub these terrible childhood memories of these sorts of assholes off of my soul.

          • Orion Fury
            Orion Fury
            April 5, 2016 at 2:09 am | #

            Gods, I need a shower after reading that as well.

          • Falling Star
            Falling Star
            April 5, 2016 at 10:38 am | #

            *hugs and sobs uncontrollably*

        • HMH
          HMH
          April 5, 2016 at 2:39 pm | #

          A singular fairness I can grant to him on this one thing is he probably has had zero involvement in Joyce or her life. He was probably nearly moved out by the time she was walking and talking, they’ve presented him that way. Why would you be close to a family member who was a baby when you lived with them and you then stopped seeing regularly, without some kind of special connection between the two of you?

      • Cerberus
        Cerberus
        April 5, 2016 at 4:15 am | #

        That’s the rub, ain’t it?

        Making sure to pass laws creating awfulness and suffering for a marginalized group, so you can point to the “harder” lives they live as proof of your superiority and the raw degeneracy of that “lifestyle”.

        Encourage bullying in the schools, disownnment of queer kids, and firing them from all jobs and evicting them from all housing and then point to the suicide, homeless, and depression rates as proof of the “unhealthiness” of being queer. It’s the Family Research Council’s life-long shtick.

        • Emily
          Emily
          April 5, 2016 at 5:04 am | #

          You know that phrase “Science advances one funeral at a time”? It totally applies to social progress too because half the way we move away from this shit is when the people who believe it have the good grace to fucking bite it.

        • ischemgeek
          ischemgeek
          April 6, 2016 at 9:47 am | #

          Wanna know something super gross? “Social skills” therapy for autistic kids includes performance of gender stereotypes.

          So if you are an autistic girl who likes weather like I was, your therapy will include trying to “extinguish” the “inappropriate behavior” of preferring meteorology to dolls. When they aren’t holding everything you love hostage to compliance as a “positive reinforcer..”

          And autistic folk are WAY more likely to be transmitted and/or various non-straight alignments. Guess how they’re treated, since if you’re autistic you’re not even allowed to know you’re passionate about something. Cuz it’s not a passion, it’s a “special interest”.

          • ischemgeek
            ischemgeek
            April 6, 2016 at 9:48 am | #

            Trans not transmitted. Fucking Autocorrect.

    • Ctrl+C D@
      Ctrl+C D@
      April 5, 2016 at 12:14 am | #

      True, but it’s hard to hear any reasonable meaning he has when his head is so far up his ass.

    • Zatar
      Zatar
      April 5, 2016 at 12:21 am | #

      Yeah, but that really doesn’t apply to the situation here.

    • Marika Oniki
      Marika Oniki
      April 5, 2016 at 12:24 am | #

      Not all wrong, no. Just where it counts.

    • winter
      winter
      April 5, 2016 at 12:26 am | #

      As much as I think actions should have consequences (a huge part of agency is feeling that your actions produce proportionate responses) being a lesbian is not an action, and having a gun pointed at you pretty much not an acceptable consequence of any action.

    • wynne
      wynne
      April 5, 2016 at 12:36 am | #

      And the refusal to accept that Toedad’s actions (aka. holding your daughter and her friend up at gunpoint) have consequences too, much more legally enshrined ones.

    • 3oranges
      3oranges
      April 5, 2016 at 1:18 am | #

      “Life is hard” is not false. But it is all wrong when spoken as if it had to be the case, by someone who is actually one of the reasons life is hard.

      • Emily
        Emily
        April 5, 2016 at 5:36 am | #

        Seriously, life being hard or unfair is not a justification for your concerted efforts to maintain or exacerbate that state, the fact that life is hard and unfair should be something we strive to mitigate not an excuse to be an asshole.

  28. tim gueguen
    tim gueguen
    April 5, 2016 at 12:05 am | #

    Well well, welly well well, to quote Jonesy Garcia. Remove the beam from your own eye and all that, John.

  29. Leorale
    Leorale
    April 5, 2016 at 12:05 am | #

    Ooooooh I underestimated Jocelyne.
    ::popcorn::

    • Leorale
      Leorale
      April 5, 2016 at 12:12 am | #

      Like, I am no shrinking violet at all, but in Jocelyne’s closeted shoes I’d probably be looking out the car window and trying to be as small as possible. It would be perfectly understandable and okay for her to react that way about all the terrible BS flying around her.
      But that’s not what she’s doing, now is it!! YES GO JOCELYNE GO

      • Liliet
        Liliet
        April 5, 2016 at 7:15 am | #

        Note how she’s not saying a thing about the actual issue at hand, she goes off on an independent barely related tangent having to do with John’s personal moral character instead.

        Not a word uttered in actual overt support of alphabet soup.

        SICK BURN delivered.

        I fucking love Jocelyne.

        • HMH
          HMH
          April 5, 2016 at 2:42 pm | #

          With this, I agree completely and heartily!

    • winter
      winter
      April 5, 2016 at 12:23 am | #

      I know right! I wasn’t expecting this, but pretty excited about all this sass.

      (Actually it makes me wonder if Jocelyne was actually afraid of Joyce, yesterday.)

      • kelticat
        kelticat
        April 5, 2016 at 12:36 am | #

        I think Jocelyn might have been afraid of getting hit by whatever Joyce was likely to throw at Jonathan.

        • winter
          winter
          April 5, 2016 at 12:39 am | #

          Yeah, I’d be afraid of Joyce with a heavy object rn.

          • Leorale
            Leorale
            April 5, 2016 at 1:00 am | #

            I think Jocelyne was afraid of the conflict, and afraid of John turning his hellfire on her next, and afraid because she was getting a front-row seat to how conditional their family’s support is… but then she sassed him anyway, because she loves Joyce and she knows it’s right and she’s brave.

            • Leorale
              Leorale
              April 5, 2016 at 1:08 am | #

              Also the heavy objects.
              If only Round The Clock served sweet-pickle pies.

            • winter
              winter
              April 5, 2016 at 1:17 am | #

              Yup! Those are all very scary things. And yet she spoke up anyhow! I think all the love for Jocelyne is more than warranted!

              • thejeff
                thejeff
                April 5, 2016 at 7:07 am | #

                This also isn’t a direct defense of the lesbian. That’s too scary territory to touch. Comes to close to home.
                She can attack John on the greed and hypocrisy without getting close to that. Deflection, but an outlet for the rage that has to be tearing her up.

  30. some nerd, who cares
    some nerd, who cares
    April 5, 2016 at 12:05 am | #

    JOCELYNE WITH NO REGARD FOR HUMAN LIFE

    JOCE DA HOSS

    I DUNNO I’M JUST SUPER EXCITED AND HAPPY WITH OL’ JOCELYNE TEAM JOCE 4EVER

    • Falling Star
      Falling Star
      April 5, 2016 at 10:40 am | #

      I’VE GOT THE T-SHIRTS
      LET’S GOOOOOOOOOOO

  31. fishamaphone
    fishamaphone
    April 5, 2016 at 12:05 am | #

    That guy has to be the youngest curmudgeon I’ve ever seen. Will John call Joyce a whippersnapper in the next strip?

    • Chandra
      Chandra
      April 5, 2016 at 12:38 am | #

      … I read ‘curmudgeon’ as ‘cum dungeon’

      • Aletheia
        Aletheia
        April 5, 2016 at 1:42 am | #

        Well you’re not wrong…

      • Dana
        Dana
        April 5, 2016 at 3:25 am | #

        Is that some kind of LGBQXYZ thing?

    • Slartibeast Button, BIA
      Slartibeast Button, BIA
      April 5, 2016 at 9:36 am | #

      Age is a state of mind.

  32. Karin
    Karin
    April 5, 2016 at 12:05 am | #

    I love Jocelyn. I want to hug him and just love him forever. Because he understands how it feels to have to hide something from your family because they wouldn’t understand or worse think that he needs to be “reconditioned”. V -V *hugs laptop* > A< YOU TELL HIM JOCELYN!

    • Adina
      Adina
      April 5, 2016 at 12:10 am | #

      I know you mean well, but…
      “I love Jocelyn. I want to hug *her and just love *her forever. Because *she understands how it feels to have to hide something from your family because they wouldn’t understand or worse think that *she needs to be “reconditioned”. V -V *hugs laptop* > A< YOU TELL HIM JOCELYN!"

    • Schpoonman
      Schpoonman
      April 5, 2016 at 12:10 am | #

      Her. Jocelyne, and “her”.

    • Uncertainty Moth
      Uncertainty Moth
      April 5, 2016 at 12:11 am | #

      *her, she, she. Careful there.

    • nobodybasically
      nobodybasically
      April 5, 2016 at 12:12 am | #

      *her, her, she & she

    • Foxhack
      Foxhack
      April 5, 2016 at 12:23 am | #

      I really hope the misgendering was accidental.

      (Jocelyn is trans, and she hasn’t dared tell anyone in her family yet.)

      • Bicycle Bill
        Bicycle Bill
        April 5, 2016 at 12:32 am | #

        Really, has she told anybody?  She sent Ethan an SMS with her email addy so he may have some small inkling, but if there are any people that actually know, like members of her LGBTQIAPK support group (did I get all the letters in the correct order?) are people who have not been introduced in-comic as yet.

        • Mika
          Mika
          April 5, 2016 at 12:36 am | #

          Ethan doesn’t have an inkling, he straight up knows that Joyce has a sister, now. Jocelyne took a huge risk in telling him, but, yeah, his face at the end of that strip was one of realization, when he saw the JocelyneJBrown email address.

          • trlkly
            trlkly
            April 5, 2016 at 1:30 am | #

            Assuming he picked up on it as well as the chat did. He did seem to come to a realization when he saw it. But I could still see him not quite get it.

            I know I thought it was a pen name. It wasn’t until I saw the chat that I put it all together.

          • Bicycle Bill
            Bicycle Bill
            April 5, 2016 at 1:57 am | #

            Actually, I went back and looked at that comic again.  After Ethan asked about being able to see some of her writing, Joshua/Jocelyne told Ethan she would text him some links; and then what he got on his phone was “JocelyneJBrown.com” — which is *NOT* an email address.  I too thought at first that Joshua was writing under a female nom de plume in much the same way many females have written under an assumed male or androgynous name; it wasn’t until Willis himself made in clear in the comments that we knew beyond a doubt that Jocelyne was transgender but unannounced.

            • Bicycle Bill
              Bicycle Bill
              April 5, 2016 at 2:00 am | #

              Incidentally, type “JocelyneJBrown.com” into your browser and see what comes up.

              • zoelogical
                zoelogical
                April 5, 2016 at 2:28 am | #

                haahhahahahahah omg that’s amazing

                • Kamino Neko
                  Kamino Neko
                  April 5, 2016 at 7:03 am | #

                  Not that amazing. It’s pretty much common sense that if you’re going to use a URL in fiction, you register it.

                  What’s unusual is he’s still keeping the registration up several years later.

                  (What would be amazing would be if he’d actually built a site of Joss’s writing. Just redirecting is more common.)

                • Kamino Neko
                  Kamino Neko
                  April 5, 2016 at 7:23 am | #

                  Well…register it, or use a TLD that doesn’t exist. But in this era of .horse, I’m not sure if it’s possible for a TLD to not exist ant more.

            • Lord Stoneheart
              Lord Stoneheart
              April 5, 2016 at 7:17 am | #

              Speak for yourself. I didn’t read the comments the first time through and I picked up on that. (It helped that the hover text said “Joyce’s sister is kinda adorable.” I mean there’s only one way to interpret that)

      • Karin
        Karin
        April 6, 2016 at 12:14 am | #

        I’m srry. Because there are some people who get confused or offended I wrote “he” more jokingly. V v V I realize her situation and shouldn’t have been rude like that.

  33. Sam
    Sam
    April 5, 2016 at 12:05 am | #

    Wow, you know what, fuck John, he’s terrible.

    • Undrave
      Undrave
      April 5, 2016 at 12:38 am | #

      What’s practical with John is that you can fuck him ANYWHERE since he’s just a giant asshole!

    • David
      David
      April 5, 2016 at 3:01 am | #

      Oh come on, he did not park in the handicapped space.

  34. Julia
    Julia
    April 5, 2016 at 12:05 am | #

    *inhales slowly*

    *breathes out slowly*

    Someone needs to kill him. Right now. Just slit his fucking throat and be DONE with it. “Entitled”?! “ENTITLED”?! Consequences for WHAT?! EXISTING?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

    I want him dead I want him dead I want him dead

    • Mkvenner
      Mkvenner
      April 5, 2016 at 12:11 am | #

      Tempting but psychological trauma last a lot longer than death.

    • Wanderso
      Wanderso
      April 5, 2016 at 12:11 am | #

      I was expecting this ever since John tried to keep Becky from coming to lunch. Seeing everyone else arrive here is … well, I didn’t expect it to be this painful.

    • caesaria82
      caesaria82
      April 5, 2016 at 12:18 am | #

      I am never actively wishing violence or physical harm on anybody, but maaaan, if someone wrecked this jerkwad’s fancy car or something, I’d be so super okay with that.

      • CC
        CC
        April 5, 2016 at 12:38 am | #

        “I have never killed any one, but I have read some obituary notices with great satisfaction.” – Clarence Darrow

        • caesaria82
          caesaria82
          April 5, 2016 at 12:45 am | #

          Yeah. This is the Margaret Thatcher thing. Or Scalia. Or numerous others. People who, in life, used their power to actively harm people. I am not gonna be sad that they died. Maybe I have sympathy for their loved ones, but if anyone comes and tells me to ‘respect their legacy’, then….. nahhhhhh thanks, I’m good.

        • Falling Star
          Falling Star
          April 5, 2016 at 10:42 am | #

          Why have I never heard this quote before?

          • Slartibeast Button, BIA
            Slartibeast Button, BIA
            April 5, 2016 at 10:51 am | #

            What about:

            “You should never say bad things about the dead, you should only say good . . . Joan Crawford is dead. Good.” – Bette Davis

            • Falling Star
              Falling Star
              April 5, 2016 at 12:55 pm | #

              please I need more

    • Smiling Cat
      Smiling Cat
      April 5, 2016 at 1:03 am | #

      Wow. That’s not an overreaction or anything…

    • smashman42
      smashman42
      April 5, 2016 at 1:49 am | #

      I especially love the guy with the free fancy car is the one calling others entitled.

      Even without all the other factors that’s enough to make him a total arsewipe.

      • David
        David
        April 5, 2016 at 3:10 am | #

        I don’t expect the car to be “free” actually. It’s probably paid from his income which will not be significantly more than that of others. It’s just that when you have that kind of income while living in a country where the average income is a 20th of yours, money tends to accumulate even when living a considerably luxurious style.

        The bottom line may be the same but you arrive there with a lot more of, well, entitlement. You feel you deserve that much more than the ones around you since you were born into an exploitative country which you left voluntarily. You just left the money tap running, and when coming back to visit, the house is flooded.

        • Cerberus
          Cerberus
          April 5, 2016 at 4:19 am | #

          Actually, in the megachurch scene it’s not uncommon for pastors and missionaries to get free luxury items tax free, often with some BS attached about how they totally use it for ministering… and just driving around.

          A lot of the time, it’s paid for by little old ladies sending in their life savings to the Church because “that’s what god wants”.

          Basically just google “prosperity gospel”.

          • BenRG
            BenRG
            April 5, 2016 at 4:30 am | #

            This content made me think of that guy who tried to convince his congregation to put together a few million bucks to buy him a private jet – to use in the ministry, of course – and then blamed ‘Satan’ when they didn’t hit the funding target.

            Jesus walked and frequently slept rough.

            The Apostle Paul either walked or hitch-hiked his way around the entire Western Empire when he wasn’t on military prison barges.

            I wonder if they’re capable of understanding what this says about them as ‘Christians’?

  35. River
    River
    April 5, 2016 at 12:05 am | #

    Where is the lightning when it is so clearly called for? Jocelyn’s burn needs to be followed by one from God — the real God, the God who loves and doesn’t put up with bigots and bullshit. The actual God of love; not the one of whatever f’ed up church the Brown’s attend.

  36. LeslieBean4Shizzle
    LeslieBean4Shizzle
    April 5, 2016 at 12:05 am | #

    … is this a thing that happens? Missionarys getting free cars from skimmed money? Cause… damn.

    • Marie
      Marie
      April 5, 2016 at 12:09 am | #

      I assume it is, since it’s Willis’ sort of thing to know, but it definitely is for higher ups in the mission programs (organizers and up, I mean, rather than random missionaries or the churches who promote missions).

    • Wanderso
      Wanderso
      April 5, 2016 at 12:09 am | #

      Yes. Yes, it is.

    • Ravian
      Ravian
      April 5, 2016 at 12:11 am | #

      Well clearly if the church gave them that car that means that God wanted them to have it.

      But yeah it happens. They don’t often call it skimming, and some are even open about spending money on personal gifts, but mega-churches can make a ton of money and you can’t spend all of that on poor people, can you?

      • Wanderso
        Wanderso
        April 5, 2016 at 12:13 am | #

        See, I never know how involved other people are in the culture. “Should I bring up Creflo Dollar’s 65 million dollar luxury jet, which was bought to replace another, smaller jet that he felt wasn’t worthy of him? I mean, he’s hardly a *standard* missionary, and everyone’s already heard of that, right?

        • Spidergirl
          Spidergirl
          April 5, 2016 at 12:17 am | #

          Considering it was covered on Last Week Tonight last year, I think people know.

          • Wanderso
            Wanderso
            April 5, 2016 at 12:22 am | #

            Yeah, but LWT is delivered to a small audience of the like-minded. Granted, those people are disproportionately likely to read DoA, but…

          • VizardJeffhog
            VizardJeffhog
            April 5, 2016 at 12:30 am | #

            Bless our Mega Reverend and CEO for founding Our Lady of Perpetual Exemption!

            • Wanderso
              Wanderso
              April 5, 2016 at 12:35 am | #

              And call 1-800-THIS-IS-LEGAL!

              • VizardJeffhog
                VizardJeffhog
                April 5, 2016 at 12:39 am | #

                LET’S SEND OUR SEED

                • Wanderso
                  Wanderso
                  April 5, 2016 at 12:44 am | #

                  I have no idea who it was who played his ‘wife’ for that segment, but she was fantastic.

                • Random832
                  Random832
                  April 5, 2016 at 12:59 am | #

                  Rachel Dratch, SNL 1999-2006, and she’s been in a lot of stuff (over a dozen different one-episode roles in 30 Rock, for example).

      • David
        David
        April 5, 2016 at 3:16 am | #

        Distributing a whole bunch of money to five people is a whole lot less work than distributing it to hundreds of thousands of people.

        It’s just being efficient. Try getting some developing country project funded for $10000. Close to impossible. Make it $100mill of which most will go to “administrative” costs and spent inside of the organization including a bit of backpay, possibly in the form of campaign funds and other actually legal niceties, and you’re talking.

        • Kryss LaBryn
          Kryss LaBryn
          April 5, 2016 at 11:04 am | #

          Plus it still makes its way down to the poor via “trickle down economics,” right? So it’s basically just the same as giving that money to the poor directly, just more efficient. And, like, intuitive and natural and stuff. Yeah.

    • Mkvenner
      Mkvenner
      April 5, 2016 at 12:12 am | #

      Yup and more.

    • Emperor Norton II
      Emperor Norton II
      April 5, 2016 at 12:19 am | #

      Hey, it’s not like Jesus said that it should be the rich giving all their money to the poor, is it?

    • Mika
      Mika
      April 5, 2016 at 12:34 am | #

      There’s a long, shameful history of corrupt jackasses using the church as their own personal piggybank, and it’s alive and well (like a cancer) in the modern evangelical churches of America. It’s particularly grotesque and virulent in the ‘prosperity gospel’ variants, which con and coerce poor and desperate people into donating everything they’ve got ‘give till it hurts’ to ‘plant a seed’ that will then guarantee them that god will give them great riches in return. It’s disgusting beyond words.

    • Fwip
      Fwip
      April 5, 2016 at 12:40 am | #

      Less common than people say, more common than a lot of people think. Prosperity Gospel malarky aside, some churches really do like buying expensive junk for their pastors. It’s not overwhelmingly common, but it happens.

    • Smiling Cat
      Smiling Cat
      April 5, 2016 at 1:04 am | #

      Anywhere where huge amounts of money accumulate in one place, corruption tends to follow. That’s doubly so if the people accumulating the money have convinced themselves that they speak for a higher power.

  37. Doopyboop
    Doopyboop
    April 5, 2016 at 12:05 am | #

    Now I’m curious about the age difference between John and Jocelyne. Also, eee~ Go Joss~ as a starving writer, she knows that the real world is hard. Becky and Joyce know that too. But the real world shouldn’t have a consequence like ‘my dad came to SHOOT ME AND MY FRIENDS BECAUSE I’M GAY’. Like, this guy’s a missionary? THIS guy? Suppose the people of India should know they need to learn the consequences of having a different religion and culture…

    • Slartibeast Button, BIA
      Slartibeast Button, BIA
      April 5, 2016 at 12:09 am | #

      From the patreon bonus strip, Jocelyne is maybe 5 years older than Joyce and 10 years younger than John. Not sure about Jordan.

      • Doopyboop
        Doopyboop
        April 5, 2016 at 12:13 am | #

        Wooow, that’s a lot of years. I’m a little surprised that John roped Joss in with himself then, did he think college changed so much in the 5 years between when Joyce and Joss started college? Then again he probably just took Joss’ silence to mean she agreed and thus HER college years weren’t filled with so much ‘entitlement’.

        Thanks for answering that for me!

        • DSL
          DSL
          April 5, 2016 at 1:06 am | #

          The Johns of the world are always surprised to encounter face-to-face disagreement. I mean, they’re just RIGHT, y’know?

          • David
            David
            April 5, 2016 at 3:20 am | #

            Well, if Joycelen weren’t wrong, she would not need to get angry, would she now? Man, that line of condescension is a gold mine.

        • HMH
          HMH
          April 5, 2016 at 2:58 pm | #

          I think it’s a convenient othering of experience that’s simply convenient to the social narrative that is shared by this social group. The “entitlement culture” of millennials and college students is a massive talking point of the regressive right in the modern day. Simply because this is the way that his culture views those things, right now, today, John is perfectly able to accept it as 100% fact that his lived experience with college was the “correct” and “standard” way the affair was supposed to go, but now that said demographic doesn’t include or agree with him, the narrative is simply “ever since we were done with it, it changed for the worse.” Ignore the fact that John was naturally absent from the specific segments of his college’s population (or, he probably just went to the fundie college to get his tax exemption uniform) that might have disagreed with his opinion, the way he experienced it was the way it was for everybody who came out of it at the same time as him. That, and since Joss came out of her time at Anderson as a “normal” person whereas Joyce has become something abhorrent and terrifying in the eyes of God (see: a baby girl who questions his overarching authority on all matters), so therefore the change in how college works can only possibly occur in the time between Joss leaving and Joyce showing up there. There is simply no other possible way of looking at it, because God is infallible and he made the world exactly this simple, which is what I was taught and is to what I owe all my success in life. The core failure that causes the suffering and complex problems of others can be summarized as “they didn’t believe the same things I did and therefore God intentionally fucked them over.”

      • John
        John
        April 5, 2016 at 12:14 am | #

        Jordan’s between the girls, so that narrows it down considerably.

    • JetstreamGW
      JetstreamGW
      April 5, 2016 at 12:12 am | #

      There was a bonus comic that had Joyce not-yet-born, Jocelyne trying to express her trans-ness despite being FAR too young to even grock the concept, and John being discussed as if he was already out of school.

      So probably something like 20 years.

      • JetstreamGW
        JetstreamGW
        April 5, 2016 at 12:14 am | #

        Whoops, got John and the older kid mixed up.

        • Norah
          Norah
          April 5, 2016 at 12:24 am | #

          No, you wereright. John is the oldest.

        • Lord Stoneheart
          Lord Stoneheart
          April 5, 2016 at 12:29 am | #

          No it was John.
          Which is why I’m a little surprised that John’s talking about college not being the same when they both went. Jocelyne can’t be that many years out of school.

      • Doopyboop
        Doopyboop
        April 5, 2016 at 12:14 am | #

        That’s even more years, damn. I’m surprised he’s only been married one year and with no children. Thank you for answering, too!

        • David
          David
          April 5, 2016 at 3:23 am | #

          Christi is probably Hijra. So no children to be expected.

      • Slartibeast Button, BIA
        Slartibeast Button, BIA
        April 5, 2016 at 12:23 am | #

        I’d interpreted John as high school age in that one. Note that he is eating while the rest of the family is talking, so growth spurt in progress, maybe.

      • Cerberus
        Cerberus
        April 5, 2016 at 4:20 am | #

        It’s really heart-breakingly adorable and that’s why I’m happy that the print comics are going to have the Bonus Strips in them.

    • timemonkey
      timemonkey
      April 5, 2016 at 12:14 am | #

      Isn’t the point of religious missionaries to completely replace the religion and culture of a foreign people with the “correct” one? You go in under the guise of improving the quality of life and helping people who need it and destroy everything that made them them.

      • Doopyboop
        Doopyboop
        April 5, 2016 at 12:16 am | #

        Good point, John’s perfect for the job.

    • Needfuldoer
      Needfuldoer
      April 5, 2016 at 8:59 am | #

      Word of Willis says he’s “between 30 and 35”. There’s a pretty long gap between John and Jocelyne, the next oldest. We know Joyce is the youngest, and she’s 18.

  38. tenkiforecast
    tenkiforecast
    April 5, 2016 at 12:05 am | #

    Wow. I wasn’t sure there would be even more ways to utterly loathe the giant douchebag, but there we go.

    Blame the lesbian for existing, and belittle being kidnapped and shot at, while going on about how entitled the women are getting, and you’re driving around in a gifted mustang.

    Yeah. It’s Joyce and Becky that are “entitled” now. Burn in hell, older Brown sibling. I hope you enjoy Dante’s 6th Circle…I think this sort of action would fall under how Dante described heresy.

    • Leorale
      Leorale
      April 5, 2016 at 12:15 am | #

      IIRC there’s a very low circle for betraying your family. I think that’s where John would fit in the best.

      • tenkiforecast
        tenkiforecast
        April 5, 2016 at 12:22 am | #

        9th Circle is Complex Fraud, betrayal of family, but Dante’s version of betrayal was less this sort of action and more murdering them.

        Toedad would go straight to 9th Circle. Jackass brown, even if mentality is similar, the action is not as “harsh”, at least to the eyes of someone like Dante.

        It’s still unequivocally awful, though.

        • Fwip
          Fwip
          April 5, 2016 at 12:45 am | #

          Given that, by Dante’s schema, people on the inner ring of the 7th Circle include the “violent against nature” (i.e. gays), I imagine Dante would disagree with you there. But I think we can ignore that fact.

          John would end up in the 8th Circle’s third bolgia, where dwell those condemned for committing simony and other profiteers of piety. Simon Magus, who trade gold for holy power, ended up there.

          • tenkiforecast
            tenkiforecast
            April 5, 2016 at 1:20 am | #

            In Dante’s time, LGBT would be considered sinners, true. It’s only recently that view has been changed since the spread of Christianity.

            However, Dante considered the acts in addition to who they were committed against. Those who kidnapped and killed Boniface VIII Dante stated would go to the inferno, even though Dante considered Boniface as shockingly horrible. Doesn’t matter if Becky is LGBT or not a sinner, Toedad’s actions without repentance would get him sent to Caina as an action against his daughter. If it was towards a non-relative or someone Toedad did not have an obligation to, 7th circle.

            • Fwip
              Fwip
              April 5, 2016 at 1:29 am | #

              My point was more that Dante might very well have considered ToeDad’s acts righteous, rather than worthy of punishment. He wasn’t intending to kill her, after all; he was trying to “save” her in his own warped way. I think Dante would agree that the act and intents were noble.

              If you set that aside, yes, ToeDad’s bound for Caina.

              • tenkiforecast
                tenkiforecast
                April 5, 2016 at 1:35 am | #

                True. Reading something from centuries ago, values dissonance is a big problem, you are completely right. Dante might have considered it so.

              • No Name
                No Name
                April 5, 2016 at 10:18 am | #

                Actually, I think Ross would be bound for Caina. Paolo and Francesca were sent to the Lust ring for getting caught in bed together by Francesca’s husband and then getting killed before they could repent. Francesca’s husband, meanwhile, will have been sent lower down for his violent action, which he considered perfectly just and never repented for. Whether to the seventh or the ninth, I don’t remember, and I’m not sure it was mentioned.

                Also, there’s the point that all sinners are judged by the ethics of their time; Cleopatra and Dido both appear in the Lust ring despite both being suicides because neither lived in a culture where suicide was a sin, despite that culture being “wrong”.

      • No Name
        No Name
        April 5, 2016 at 12:35 am | #

        That would be Caina in Cocytus. He’d be frozen up to his neck.

        • tenkiforecast
          tenkiforecast
          April 5, 2016 at 12:41 am | #

          That’s Toedad’s dominion, definitely. Straight down to Caina.

          I think, as awful as Brown #1 is, according to the way Dante categorized hell and sin, he’d be stuck in Circle 6. Heresy, at least in Dante’s time, was viewed as something very differently than today. This was before the Protestant reformation, after all. Placing things ahead of the common good, ahead of how Dante viewed Faith, but most importantly–how it played out.

          The way I’m interpreting Dante’s view…all of the fundamentalists of Joyce’s soon-to-be-former church would probably be sent straight to Circle 6 as false Christians, or to the Malebolge of the Simonists in Circle 8, for how they are abusing church funds.

          Of course, I am not an expert, I could be completely wrong.

          • No Name
            No Name
            April 5, 2016 at 12:47 am | #

            Neither am I, but you certainly seem to be more of one than me. I’ve only read La Commedia once or twice, and it’s been a while. I need to dig them back up soon, now that I think of it.

            • tenkiforecast
              tenkiforecast
              April 5, 2016 at 1:37 am | #

              I still need to find a good copy of Paradiso, the person who translated two of the standard English copies of Inferno and Purgatorio died before finishing the Paradiso translation. Even then, it’s a hard read, just because of how many contemporary figures Dante referenced. 0_O;

              • Harvey Janus
                Harvey Janus
                April 5, 2016 at 9:35 am | #

                I may have a good copy of Paradiso, but I just can’t get through Purgatorio. Though I agree with the 8th circle for John.

              • No Name
                No Name
                April 5, 2016 at 9:56 am | #

                If you’re talking about the Dorothy L. Sayers translation, that’s the one I have. Paradiso’s last ten cantos were translated by one of Sayers’s friends and confidants who had access to her notes and had been “consulted” (I don’t know a better word for it) for the other twenty-three cantos of Paradiso. In my last reading, admittedly distant, I barely noticed a difference in quality.

                Also, apparently Dante himself may have died before finishing his work, as there is a story where his son only found the last ten cantos (coincidence?) after a dream sent from his father told him where to look. Considering the era, it might have been media hype.

  39. Emperor Norton II
    Emperor Norton II
    April 5, 2016 at 12:05 am | #

    Awwww, did your little speech about entitlement and consequences backfire right into your face, John? Man, I feel sooooo sorry for you!

    • Falling Star
      Falling Star
      April 5, 2016 at 10:45 am | #

      Riiiiiiiight?

  40. Architex
    Architex
    April 5, 2016 at 12:05 am | #

    Ah yes the trauma was all reasonable consequence for sinful actions.

  41. Adept Arcanist
    Adept Arcanist
    April 5, 2016 at 12:05 am | #

    Heck yeah, Jocelyn strikes back!

  42. Black
    Black
    April 5, 2016 at 12:05 am | #

    Wow, that was a sick burn at the end!

  43. Nicster216
    Nicster216
    April 5, 2016 at 12:06 am | #

    LGBQXYZ Yeah nice one john now your gonna start saying your a member of the La-li-lu-le-lo.

    • svata
      svata
      April 5, 2016 at 1:16 am | #

      Who are the patriots?

  44. Luzahn
    Luzahn
    April 5, 2016 at 12:06 am | #

    Also, where the hell is entitlement coming into this, even from a warped religious viewpoint? Or does John just thing “being angry” is a privelege reserved for those 30+?

    • Leorale
      Leorale
      April 5, 2016 at 12:17 am | #

      It’s what they call Millennials who would like anything at all, such as a living wage, equality, self-respect, not getting guns pointed at them, you know, ridiculous things like that.

      • Orion Fury
        Orion Fury
        April 5, 2016 at 2:20 am | #

        Affordable anything, really. Health care, Post-High School, food.

        • ChrisHerself
          ChrisHerself
          April 5, 2016 at 4:29 pm | #

          Additionally it’s truly a struggle not to choke condescending older asshats condemning Participation Trophy Entitlement Culture Millennials when they were the ones handing out the fucking participation trophies to their kids and grandkids with smiles on their faces like what did you expect of CHILDREN? TO GIVE THEM BACK TO YOU?

          • Black
            Black
            April 5, 2016 at 5:34 pm | #

            This, everything this guy said right here.

            You’re right, why are they bongoing about that “everyone gets a trophy” mindset when THEY were the ones giving out the trophies and raising us like that?

            • Leorale
              Leorale
              April 5, 2016 at 9:54 pm | #

              I once read a person making a fair point, that everyone told him to study hard and go to a good college lest he have to flip burgers, and so he did well in college, and when he graduated and doesn’t particularly want to flip burgers they call him entitled.

              • Leorale
                Leorale
                April 5, 2016 at 10:06 pm | #

                Like, constantly through childhood, they told him that flipping burgers would be super terrible and/or shameful, it was the great big threat for not doing what they wanted, and that going to college = great job, so it’s his fault for believing them.

                (Of course, I always expected to be a starving artist, so poverty wasn’t such a surprise, but you know, different strokes.)

              • ChrisHerself
                ChrisHerself
                April 6, 2016 at 12:23 am | #

                And even if he sucks it up and starts flipping burgers despite that stigma that’s been repeated to him his whole life, he’d best not DARE point out the problems with the minimum wage. To his parents (and grandparents esp), that wage was actually LIVABLE so clearly the problem is with these bratty, entitled whelps. What inflation is?

          • Hollis
            Hollis
            April 5, 2016 at 7:56 pm | #

            My favorite part of the hatred for “trophy culture” is the dramatic misunderstanding of it. “Everyone gets a trophy” doesn’t lead to entitlement. It leads to people who don’t trust positive reinforcement or praise and don’t believe that they earned anything because it didn’t matter how mediocre or straight-up terrible you were as a kid, you still got that positive reinforcement, even if you knew you didn’t deserve it! Why would any praise or positive reinforcement be different as an adult? You’re actually worthless and everyone’s too polite to actually tell you that!

            • ChrisHerself
              ChrisHerself
              April 6, 2016 at 12:28 am | #

              OH MY GOD THIS. YES.

              Children are a lot more observant of these things than adults give them credit for. And at a much younger age.

    • Charles Phipps
      Charles Phipps
      April 5, 2016 at 12:18 am | #

      He’s entitled to be treated as the Wise sage because he’s older, male, and heterosexual? They’re NOT entitled (and thus Entitled with a capital E) because they’re expecting to have their opinions treated as valid just because they lived through the events.

    • Liokae
      Liokae
      April 5, 2016 at 12:23 am | #

      Like most people of his ilk, words like “entitlement” don’t have actual meanings to him, it’s just a buzzword to describe “people who don’t agree with me”. It’s like “communist” and “fascist” in politics.

    • espanolbot
      espanolbot
      April 5, 2016 at 1:38 am | #

      “Entitlement” is a phrase like “political correctness”, in the sense that although it does exist in a negative sense it’s more likely used by people in power to dismiss those who don’t have it but want to be treated with some sense of fairness.

      People with a sense of privilege who think that because they have it easy everyone who doesn’t is a sponge, whiny or greedy, basically.

    • Will
      Will
      April 5, 2016 at 4:50 am | #

      For John, Joyce is angry because she believes what hapenned to her and Becky wasn’t deserved, but for him it was a direct consequence of their actions (being gay, running away, helping to hide the runaway). It’s just what happens when you do those things, expecting to act this way and not suffer the natural consequences is Entitlement to him.

      And now I need a shower after typing all this.

      • Will
        Will
        April 5, 2016 at 5:02 am | #

        Basically, for John college should be like Becky’s, where bekng gay gets you kicked out. But it is like Joyce’s, where you get free pizza. “That’s entitlement”, says the man with the free mustang.

  45. figureaddict
    figureaddict
    April 5, 2016 at 12:06 am | #

    John confirmed as raging dick hole

  46. Mkvenner
    Mkvenner
    April 5, 2016 at 12:06 am | #

    When did human rights become entitlement?

    • timemonkey
      timemonkey
      April 5, 2016 at 12:09 am | #

      To the people who had the power, pretty much always.

  47. JessWitt
    JessWitt
    April 5, 2016 at 12:07 am | #

    Pull through for them, Jocelyne! Stick up for your sister.

    Also FU John. Being gay is not a trend.

  48. fizzywafflezsuperstore
    fizzywafflezsuperstore
    April 5, 2016 at 12:07 am | #

    “LGBXYZ”

    Note the lack of the “T”

    • Bicycle Bill
      Bicycle Bill
      April 5, 2016 at 12:11 am | #

      He probably figures the ‘Q’ would cover it all anyway.

      • TheGrammarLegionary
        TheGrammarLegionary
        April 5, 2016 at 12:27 am | #

        Nah, John’s just heard the acronym tossed around, he doesn’t know (or care, I imagine) what the significance behind it or any part of it is.

    • Luzahn
      Luzahn
      April 5, 2016 at 12:11 am | #

      He hasn’t cared about other peoples’ rights since the “T” got added.

      • Leorale
        Leorale
        April 5, 2016 at 12:19 am | #

        I don’t think that John even knows what the letters stand for. He clearly believes it’s all some trendy nonsense that doesn’t deserve a second thought.

        I have heard people say LMNOP, but they meant it with loving good-humour, from within the community, not like what John’s doing here.

        • SundaesChild
          SundaesChild
          April 5, 2016 at 12:47 am | #

          Oh, he knows, or at least, he could easily learn. No, he’s not only being hateful, he thinks he’s clever, because he’s rhyming. I’m sure he was smirking while he said it. (Source: Two years of Pre-Seminary courses.)

    • Falling Star
      Falling Star
      April 5, 2016 at 1:03 pm | #

      D’:

  49. Nick J.
    Nick J.
    April 5, 2016 at 12:07 am | #

    It’s that little ‘heh’ at the beginning of John’s rant that really makes me detest him. As if Joyce had just been involved in some wacky college prank, and not, you know, a gunman who threatened her life and Becky’s. What a completely garbage human being.

    • Tabula Rasa
      Tabula Rasa
      April 5, 2016 at 2:49 pm | #

      This!

      The condescension of that laugh, thinking it was funny that Joyce was so angry royally pissed me off. Then assuming that it was her immaturity that caused the reaction without ever considering what his reaction would be in the same situation. In short, he demonstrated how very little he cares about Joyce. Then he doubled down by rejecting the call for understanding because it was, for him, about the sin. And then doubled down again by assuming that being lesbian is a sense of entitlement and that what happened to Joyce, by supporting Becky, was a logical consequence and therefore deserved.

      I’m so very impressed with Willis’s ability to write John’s lines because I couldn’t do so without veering off into farce. That he also set up the punchline for Jocelyn was genius.

  50. Vonniesaur
    Vonniesaur
    April 5, 2016 at 12:07 am | #

    Tell him, Jocelyn

  51. Vex Godglove
    Vex Godglove
    April 5, 2016 at 12:07 am | #

    “Consequences”. As if having your life threatened and bring kidnapped are reasonable consequences to being outside the heteronormative script.

    • Kamino Neko
      Kamino Neko
      April 5, 2016 at 5:31 am | #

      To the Johns of the world, they are.

    • thejeff
      thejeff
      April 5, 2016 at 7:18 am | #

      Or being homeless at 18.

  52. caesaria82
    caesaria82
    April 5, 2016 at 12:08 am | #

    Wow John is getting worse and worse every day. I am so angry at his entire existence, I am seething. I don’t even want to think about how he stands for very real, flesh and blood people out there, who think exactly these kinds of things and it just. Ugh. Makes my skin crawl.

    But omfg, you go Joceylne! Sick burn. I love you.

  53. ninja_jesus
    ninja_jesus
    April 5, 2016 at 12:08 am | #

    So, grade A scumbag through and through. Good to know.

  54. Shiro
    Shiro
    April 5, 2016 at 12:08 am | #

    1.) Yesssssssssssssssss girl ♥

    2.) Holy shit their church, taking from the poor to give out free cars is not at all Christlike

    3.) John keeps getting worse and worse, bets for what he’ll say tomorrow?

    • Marie
      Marie
      April 5, 2016 at 12:10 am | #

      3. Nothin’, he’s driven off and run over Joss’ foot on the way

    • Emperor Norton II
      Emperor Norton II
      April 5, 2016 at 12:22 am | #

      “What do you mean Jesus said that it is the rich that should give their money to the poor? Show me where it says that in the bible!”

      • Charles Phipps
        Charles Phipps
        April 5, 2016 at 12:27 am | #

        I was poor and now I’m getting money! It’s all justified by the Bible!

      • Shiro
        Shiro
        April 5, 2016 at 12:30 am | #

        Puts me in mind of the Shortpacked AFD comic…

        • Falling Star
          Falling Star
          April 5, 2016 at 10:48 am | #

          Pretty much.

      • trlkly
        trlkly
        April 5, 2016 at 1:42 am | #

        Because I can’t resist such a setup:

        Mathew 19:16-24 The highlights (ESV):
        16: And someone came to Him and said, “Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?”

        20: Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

        21: But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

        24: Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.”

    • Leorale
      Leorale
      April 5, 2016 at 12:24 am | #

      He’ll probably turn the heat onto Jocelyne somehow, for supporting the sinners, hopefully in a way that doesn’t take the wind out of her sails because Sassy Jocelyne is cathartic and amazing and I only want more of her.

      • Leorale
        Leorale
        April 5, 2016 at 1:48 am | #

        Actually what I would really enjoy is one where Jocelyne just keeps burning him and we don’t even get a big John reaction bc who cares what he thinks, it’s just awesome Jocelyne All Day tomorrow til she drops the mic and goes back in to hang with Becky and Joyce. <3
        DoA: super cathartic edition.

    • The Articulator
      The Articulator
      April 5, 2016 at 3:28 am | #

      Okay, you were right, he’s just a dick.

  55. Henry
    Henry
    April 5, 2016 at 12:09 am | #

    So is John just going to go for broke and actually start dropping slurs tomorrow?

    • HMH
      HMH
      April 5, 2016 at 4:35 pm | #

      I believe that he believes himself above “that kind of behavior.” It’s not that he thinks it’s wrong, but he knows how it can be perceived, and has an image to maintain as a member of his community. But, behind closed doors, when he knows he’s truly in an echo chamber? Then, perhaps.

  56. Benwhoski
    Benwhoski
    April 5, 2016 at 12:09 am | #

    Oooh. Go Jocelyn!

  57. Ryan
    Ryan
    April 5, 2016 at 12:09 am | #

    So where are all those folks who kept saying we should still give him the benefit of the doubt?

    • AeromechanicalAce
      AeromechanicalAce
      April 5, 2016 at 12:15 am | #

      Everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt. John proved beyond a doibt he’s a shitty person 3 comics back. Today’s comic lowered him to “self righteous hypocritical piece of shit” levels.

    • Zatar
      Zatar
      April 5, 2016 at 12:17 am | #

      If last comic didn’t already cement him as a douche in there eyes they might still try to hang on in this one.

    • caesaria82
      caesaria82
      April 5, 2016 at 12:22 am | #

      lol if there are STILL people defending him after today (tbh, after yesterday), I’m gonna fucking lose it.

      • timemonkey
        timemonkey
        April 5, 2016 at 12:39 am | #

        There will always be people who’ll defend characters like this. There are three reasons:
        1) They agree with them
        2) They don’t want to accept that people like that exist
        3) They’re trolls who just want attention and to see people fight.

        • caesaria82
          caesaria82
          April 5, 2016 at 12:56 am | #

          Yeah. I just hope I don’t encounter any of these people because boy am I ever NOT in the mood or right frame of mind to deal with them right now. I mean, unless they *want* to get their heads torn off…. ^^

        • Cerberus
          Cerberus
          April 5, 2016 at 4:24 am | #

          True. I’m honestly a little surprised that we’re not getting an avalanche of “what a strawman, no one acts like this” comments like usually happens when a character reveals themselves to be so awful as to be indefensible.

          Not just surprised, but pleasantly surprised, which is nice, because I’ve had way too many encounters with this flavor of asshole to tolerate much of that malarky.

          • vmgx
            vmgx
            April 5, 2016 at 8:04 pm | #

            I believe that is because Willis has to approve the first comment anyone makes in the site before they are able to comment more, and it’s very likely that these people would start with “strawman!”

            …sorry

      • Tacos
        Tacos
        April 5, 2016 at 1:16 am | #

        Unfortunately I’ve seen enough of this world to know that there are still asshats who’d defend John. Luckily Willis is a speedy moderator so we don’t see as much of that here.

      • figureaddict
        figureaddict
        April 5, 2016 at 9:11 am | #

        I was one of the people giving him the benefit of doubt, thinking he didn’t know the story at all, or new only oarts of what happend, or only got a one sided story from his mother. But no, hes just a homophobic, sexist, d-bag

    • Leorale
      Leorale
      April 5, 2016 at 12:27 am | #

      IIRC a lot of people regretted it! Like, they gave him the benefit of the doubt as a human being, and then he crapped all over it, and then they were sad.

    • Chris2315
      Chris2315
      April 5, 2016 at 12:31 am | #

      Well, benefit of the doubt only applies as long as doubt remains. There was nothing wrong with defending him prior to him doing or saying anything truly awful. Now that he’s unquestionably proven himself to be a dick, no one’s going to defend him.

      • Emperor Norton II
        Emperor Norton II
        April 5, 2016 at 12:38 am | #

        I think the difference was that people who weren’t used to his style of behaviour —probably because it had never happened to them— kept giving him the benefit quite a bit beyond what the people who could see the red flags coming from a mile away, because they’d lived through those red flags repeatedly.

        Me, I chose to believe the ones calling out the red flags. Turns out they were right too.

        • Chris2315
          Chris2315
          April 5, 2016 at 7:22 pm | #

          Personally, I was defending him a couple comics ago not because I didn’t see the red flags, but because I don’t like the idea of red flags. I find the idea of extrapolating a person’s entire personality based solely on initial impressions to be rather judgemental. Honestly, I would never be able to have any social interaction if everyone worked like that, because I’m not the most likeable person up front. Since people have the courtesy of not assuming I’m a total dick based on my antisocial behavior (note: I’m on the autism spectrum) I kinda feel like I have to extend the same courtesy to others. A lot of people can seem a little cold at first or hold one or two shitty beliefs and still turn out to be decent people overall, even if they make a terrible first impression.

          Maybe I shouldn’t extend that courtesy to fictional characters, because they work by different rules and also don’t have actual feelings, but I dunno. Fiction is good training for handling situations in real life, so I try not to judge even fictional characters.

          • epochryphal
            epochryphal
            April 5, 2016 at 8:10 pm | #

            Like, this is a great ideal, and one I operated by for a long time, and then it got me into multiple abusive relationships and now I have C-PTSD and seeing people insist that red flags should be ignored in order to be, idk, humane and reasonable and a good person, is scary and shakiness-inducing.

            And I say this as an autistic person, too, who often gets pegged as condescending and abrasive. It’s a really hard balance, and I don’t have a good answer. I’m just working so hard to listen to my instincts, which were trained out of me, and to learn that yeah it’s okay to avoid people who make you feel bad just because they make you feel bad.

            And then there’s apologism and the superiority of “well IIII don’t judge so quickly” and general comment-section nature (although DOA is amazingly atypical), and it all turns into a giant trigger-ball of “can I ever feel like a person is sketchy without being a Horrible Judger.”

            • Chris2315
              Chris2315
              April 5, 2016 at 9:14 pm | #

              Of course there’s a lot of nuance to consider. I don’t believe any statement can apply to the entirety of human experience. “Don’t judge” is about as true as “lying is bad,” which is to say not always.

              To say that you shouldn’t judge prematurely doesn’t mean you should try to be friends with someone who sounds like a jerk. There’s an in-between: you don’t need to assume either the best or the worst of someone, you can just be cautious until it becomes obvious which it is.

              Yes, John did turn out to be a jerk, but that only became clear at the point where he got up and left. Prior to that, anything he said could be interpreted as tactless, poorly expressed concern. You shouldn’t assume that’s the case, but I don’t think you should assume he’s being dismissive and condescending right off the bat either. It’s what we call benefit of the doubt: just keep both possibilities in mind until you know for sure.

              • Leorale
                Leorale
                April 5, 2016 at 10:13 pm | #

                Ehh, I don’t have a problem with making conclusions based on your experience, as long as you’re not a jerk about it and as long a you’re very open to changing your initial stance given new info. People are judging *machines*, and learning from your experience is important.

                • Chris2315
                  Chris2315
                  April 6, 2016 at 12:09 am | #

                  Yes, you can, and I absolutely respect that. It’s just not how I proceed. I make no conclusions until I have enough evidence. I’m not saying that method’s superior; we’re talking about social interaction, not science experiments after all.

                  However, there were a lot of people defending John in previous comics (not so much now), myself included, and also a lot of people who were hating not just on John, but on anyone defending him. That I don’t think is fair.

    • Briny
      Briny
      April 5, 2016 at 12:50 am | #

      Really simple? Most of them were saying “We shouldn’t ASSUME he’s an asshole. Let’s give the character a chance to prove if he is, or not.” And now, he has.

      There’s really no hypocrisy in “Let’s at least see if it plays out like that. Well. Yep, it sure did.”

    • Smiling Cat
      Smiling Cat
      April 5, 2016 at 1:07 am | #

      Doubt was given. He used it all up.

    • SDGlyph
      SDGlyph
      April 5, 2016 at 1:33 am | #

      Some people managed to defend Toedad right to the end.

      • Cephalo the Pod
        Cephalo the Pod
        April 5, 2016 at 2:27 pm | #

        And I bet a few still do.

    • HMH
      HMH
      April 5, 2016 at 4:37 pm | #

      Willis left plenty of the room at the beginning for him to turn out to be misinformed, misunderstanding, misunderstood, or in some other fringe case not acting purely out of malice and dogma. I also don’t think there was enough evidence very early on that he was, in fact, unchangeable. But, the rate at which Willis is trying to torpedo any potential goodwill for John, I wouldn’t be surprised at any reveal of his wrongdoings at this point if they make sense in the context of the character. He’s clearly meant to have essentially zero redeeming qualities.

      • thejeff
        thejeff
        April 5, 2016 at 5:09 pm | #

        I still wouldn’t be at all surprised if the earlier speculation about Christi being Indian and that being a source of friction with his parents was true. It would be interesting if he was better on racial issues than at them, while still being horrible in many ways.

  58. Chengrel
    Chengrel
    April 5, 2016 at 12:10 am | #

    Oh god, it just hit me that John is my entire family. Just replace “it’s a sin” with “it’s weird”.

  59. Opus the Poet
    Opus the Poet
    April 5, 2016 at 12:11 am | #

    I found Carla’s next job. http://blog.caranddriver.com/this-is-the-design-for-roboraces-self-driving-race-car/?mag=cdb&list=nl_dvr_news&src=nl&date=040416 The cars are delivered minus software other than a basic OS.

  60. Spidergirl
    Spidergirl
    April 5, 2016 at 12:11 am | #

    Good lord, it’s like reading things my father has said but with religious fervor.
    Also Jocelyne just got a new reason as to why she’s my longtime fave: she is a MASTER of burns

  61. Cheshrin
    Cheshrin
    April 5, 2016 at 12:11 am | #

    Ohhhhhhhhhhh

    You tell ‘im, Jocelyne.

    (And yeah, John, real life is hard. For example, some people get stuck with really shitty older brothers who completely dismiss the horrifying experience they went through because “real life has consequences” or some gross sanctimonious bullshit.)

  62. Wolf
    Wolf
    April 5, 2016 at 12:11 am | #

    Dumbing of Triangle: DAY 20

    These triangle grins get more and more unfitting… wait, FREE MUSTANG!?

    • tim gueguen
      tim gueguen
      April 5, 2016 at 12:22 am | #

      The car really needs a triangle on the front grill.

      • Wolf
        Wolf
        April 5, 2016 at 9:32 am | #

        Lemme guess, you also want me to paint it red and name it Ultra-Car?

        • tim gueguen
          tim gueguen
          April 5, 2016 at 10:10 am | #

          Why would I want to punish Ultra Car like that? A triangle would merely show how evil John’s car no doubt is.

          • Sokol
            Sokol
            April 5, 2016 at 5:31 pm | #

            Nega-Ultra-Car? We sure John’s car is evil?

    • Falling Star
      Falling Star
      April 5, 2016 at 10:50 am | #

      I dunno, Jocelyne in that last panel…

  63. Bicycle Bill
    Bicycle Bill
    April 5, 2016 at 12:12 am | #

    Anything I may have ever said nice about John — I take it all back.
    And Jocelyne earns ten points for Gryffindor for recognizing hypocrisy when it’s staring her in the face

    • Bagge
      Bagge
      April 5, 2016 at 1:01 am | #

      Yeah, John didn’t impress very much. Or at all.

      Even if you buy into everything he believes, even if you buy every possible excuse of working with partial information, trying to be pragmatic, whatever, he STILL got pissy with his little sister (a week after an incredibly traumatic experience) as soon as their conversation left the safest topics possible (running gags about Joyce’s eating habits), he STILL was incredibly dismissive about Becky (the friend-to-the-family-who-just-lost-her-parents-and-is-homeless), he contributed with nothing helpful at all and he ran away as soon as Joyce raised her voice.

      Go John, truly you are a stellar shepherd for the troubled and lost.

  64. Some1
    Some1
    April 5, 2016 at 12:12 am | #

    Wait, am I understanding right, that John gets expensive cars based on money taken from the poor?

    If thats the case, he may have just upgraded from Jackass to actually evil.

    • Foxhack
      Foxhack
      April 5, 2016 at 12:28 am | #

      It’s a religious thing. Some big churches do that. For reasons.

      He didn’t actually ask for the car, I think, they just gave it to him for being such a good little converter.

      • Cerberus
        Cerberus
        April 5, 2016 at 4:25 am | #

        He abuses the brown people with smug detachment far better than most of his flock.

  65. ninja_jesus
    ninja_jesus
    April 5, 2016 at 12:12 am | #

    Honestly, I really love how you follow up his “entitlement” comment with the fact that he has a fucking Mustang bought with Church tithings, Willis. That’s honestly the last few previous generations in a nutshell.

    • tim gueguen
      tim gueguen
      April 5, 2016 at 12:23 am | #

      Maybe not him personally. It may be the proper of XYZ Ministries.

      • tim gueguen
        tim gueguen
        April 5, 2016 at 12:24 am | #

        “property”

    • Kamino Neko
      Kamino Neko
      April 5, 2016 at 5:33 am | #

      That’s human history in a nutshell.

    • kelticat
      kelticat
      April 5, 2016 at 12:37 pm | #

      What I wonder, is if he went to India as a destination wedding instead of “missionary work” as he claims.

    • Crumplepunch
      Crumplepunch
      April 5, 2016 at 4:59 pm | #

      http://36.media.tumblr.com/3b7051c0a622e8cecc33f8bd8a09bc52/tumblr_nvgl1zHxgS1rblazuo1_1280.jpg?.jpg

  66. MM
    MM
    April 5, 2016 at 12:13 am | #

    Well played, Jocelyne. Now follow it up with the perfect heel pivot-turn right back into that diner so you can go hang out with Joyce and Becky.

  67. Oysteinthenoisy
    Oysteinthenoisy
    April 5, 2016 at 12:13 am | #

    Go read about the 3C church and other prosperity denominations. They preach the “prosperity gospel” (antithesis of what Jesus taught) and their pastors make boatloads of money. I’ll bet John is one of those men who will always ask for the pastor discount at shops, restaurants and garage sales.

    • Charles Phipps
      Charles Phipps
      April 5, 2016 at 12:16 am | #

      The Prosperity Gospel is actually more offensive to me than Ayn Rand’s teachings as a theistic follower of Rabbi Joshua ben Joseph (which I say just to screw with my fundamentalist neighbors I admit). I mean, there’s genuine evil in the name o God all the time, but that’s just so…self servingly SMUG.

      • Foxhack
        Foxhack
        April 5, 2016 at 12:29 am | #

        … I thought he wasn’t a rabbi. >_>

        • Leorale
          Leorale
          April 5, 2016 at 12:41 am | #

          ‘Rabbi’ means ‘teacher’, and this was during the rise of rabbinical Judaism. He can be one.

        • kelticat
          kelticat
          April 5, 2016 at 12:50 am | #

          Jewish rabbis have been known to refer to Yeshua bin Yusef as a rabbi (which roughly means teacher ).

      • Fwip
        Fwip
        April 5, 2016 at 12:50 am | #

        At least when it comes to Ayn Rand, she’s only economically reprehensible. Socially, she’s… Pretty good, really. Rationalist and libertarian on social issues, through and through.

        • Charles Phipps
          Charles Phipps
          April 5, 2016 at 1:14 am | #

          As a socialist far left liberal Christian, let’s say me and Ayn Rand’s views on social issues differ.

          • Fwip
            Fwip
            April 5, 2016 at 1:20 am | #

            I’m hardly in agreement with her either, but if you believe in things like freedom of speech and conscience and the simple right to be different without fear of state-sanctioned persecution, you’ve gotta give credit where it’s due.

            • Charles Phipps
              Charles Phipps
              April 5, 2016 at 1:26 am | #

              I give credit to Ayn Rand for her Epic Burn on Reagan, I admit. Also, inspiring Bioshock and being a fairly engaging science-fiction writer. 🙂

              • Fwip
                Fwip
                April 5, 2016 at 1:31 am | #

                She had her moments. I’ve not read anyone quite like her who offers such a soaring salute to the human spirit.

        • espanolbot
          espanolbot
          April 5, 2016 at 1:43 am | #

          Wait, wasn’t she racist towards Native Americans or something?

          • Fwip
            Fwip
            April 5, 2016 at 2:04 am | #

            Not really racist, but culturally supremacist to the extreme, to where it’s virtually indistinguishable. She believed they didn’t have property rights because they didn’t “use” the land, and thus this justified white Europeans in extirpating the Natives from their homes by whatever means they saw fit.

            Did she believe that Natives were in any way inherently inferior, though? Not that I’ve ever heard. As she put it herself, “Racism is a doctrine of, by and for brutes.”

            • Lord Stoneheart
              Lord Stoneheart
              April 5, 2016 at 7:23 am | #

              Well if she says she’s not racist, then…

              I really fail to see the distinction in terms of reprehensibility here.

              • Fwip
                Fwip
                April 5, 2016 at 10:49 am | #

                On that particular point, there isn’t one.

                Rand did more than say she wasn’t racist, though; she dedicated a fairly reasonable amount of her writing on ethics and virtue to how and why racism was irrational and wrong. The Virtue of Selfishness has an entire chapter dedicated to tearing at the concept philosophically. Racism, in her eyes, denigrates humanity to a kind of biological determinism. You are a genius or an idiot on your own terms – and, really, those were the only things she cared about – regardless of your origin.

                The problem is, Rand loved the idea of “progress”, and anyone who didn’t get with the program was backwards and stupid; a standard to which she held everyone. It just becomes most glaring and cruel when directed at minorities and peoples whose histories have been marked by oppression and cultural ruin. “Yes, this is the society that oppressed you and murdered your ancestors, but it’s got trains and planes and automobiles, so if you don’t get with the program, you’re just stupid.”

                Empathy wasn’t her strong suit, but I’m betting you knew that already.

                • Rutee
                  Rutee
                  April 5, 2016 at 6:32 pm | #

                  Rand blamed numerous problems that women suffered on, you know, women. Saying she was ‘good socially’ pretends that libertarians, as a rule, are ‘good socially’. No, they’re just the ones who get defined as libertarians by libertarians who at least claim to be good socially. She considered Libertarians to be hippies (Much like how Marx never once identified with Marxism), so calling her one ‘through and through’ is laughable in the extreme.

                  And you’re saying she said racist shit, so I don’t know why you’re wasting your time trying further. Like, you won’t identify it as such, but you’re saying she said racist shit, so. People who WERE geniuses among natives were roundly ignored, and white geniuses were glorified.

      • Bruceski
        Bruceski
        April 5, 2016 at 1:58 am | #

        The only thing that gets my hackles up more is people who use their kids for proselytizing. If the young’uns want to participate in church/synagogue/whatever stuff, sure, but when you tell them it’s their duty and hang back because emotional blackmail of strangers is more important than your kid’s well-being…

    • MrInsecure
      MrInsecure
      April 5, 2016 at 12:40 am | #

      Reminds me of John Oliver’s bit on it, which resulted in him setting up the fake church “Our Lady of Perpetual Exemption.” (Unlike the prosperity gospel churches, though, he actually used his money for a good cause- in this case, donating it to Doctors Without Borders.)

  68. Chris2315
    Chris2315
    April 5, 2016 at 12:13 am | #

    Oh for f**k’s sake, John, why do you have to be the absolute worst? I had hopes for you!

  69. Palamdrone
    Palamdrone
    April 5, 2016 at 12:14 am | #

    Joce is gonna have to walk home.

    • Liliet
      Liliet
      April 5, 2016 at 7:29 am | #

      If only there was someone else with a car there.
      Someone who’s also a family.
      Someone who’s not a complete bag of dicks.
      Someone who she can feel relatively safe with.
      Someone she desperately wants to support.

      If only…

      ;]

      • Falling Star
        Falling Star
        April 5, 2016 at 10:51 am | #

        (>u<)

  70. Earnbrand
    Earnbrand
    April 5, 2016 at 12:14 am | #

    Now it’s been a long time since I gave an offering at church, but I thought it was supposed to be FOR the poor, not FROM them. Of course, if you’re going to skim off the top for fancy cars, I suppose it doesn’t matter who’s giving.

    • trlkly
      trlkly
      April 5, 2016 at 1:48 am | #

      Yes, they do. But that’s not all of it. Some churches also tell people who can’t really afford it that they have to tithe. There are some churches that require you to give them your W2s and everything to even be a member.!

      Plus, John is a missionary to India, which has a lot of poor people.

      But thanks for catching that. I instinctively read it as “for.” Now the burn is on much, much stronger ground. (As tithes aren’t always for poor people.)

  71. Charles Phipps
    Charles Phipps
    April 5, 2016 at 12:14 am | #

    John: Listen, Josh, I’m ENTITLED to this because I don’t think I’m entitled to this. It was GIFTED to me by the church out of the goodness of their hearts which I KNEW about but didn’t EXPECT. That’s the difference. They, however, PRESUME I will be sympathetic and understanding which just will not stand.

  72. JessWitt
    JessWitt
    April 5, 2016 at 12:15 am | #

    Petition to rechristen John “Johnny B. Douche”.

  73. Zatar
    Zatar
    April 5, 2016 at 12:15 am | #

    Wow John I thought you couldn’t be more of an Asshole….I was wrooooooiiiing.
    I am so glad that Jocelyne is calling him out on his bullshit. Its especially brave considering her own situation.

  74. Peny
    Peny
    April 5, 2016 at 12:15 am | #

    John: “No, they also gave me a private yacht. THAT is how I get to India, stupid.”

  75. Lauralot
    Lauralot
    April 5, 2016 at 12:16 am | #

    Amazing. John had already proven himself to be trash, and then he went and somehow managed to make me think even worse of hi,. And I hadn’t considered that possible before now.

    You go, Jocelyne.

  76. Palamdrone
    Palamdrone
    April 5, 2016 at 12:16 am | #

    John responds saying “Some people joined the wrong church”.

  77. Guairdean
    Guairdean
    April 5, 2016 at 12:17 am | #

    Someone should remind John of Proverbs 16:18 (King James Version (KJV)) “Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.” His fall will be a wonder to behold.

  78. altalemur
    altalemur
    April 5, 2016 at 12:17 am | #

    oh ick. John is sounding kinda scumbaggy, aside from policing Joyce’s tone and not being emotionally supportive. what did he even want to accomplish during the lunch, if he wasn’t going to be there for Joyce?

  79. Charles Phipps
    Charles Phipps
    April 5, 2016 at 12:17 am | #

    Is John a minister because usually this level of corruption only follows actual members of the Church Hierarchy? This is a serious question.

  80. Rukduk
    Rukduk
    April 5, 2016 at 12:17 am | #

    Damn but that was good Jocelyne. Also, seriously, a damn Mustang?!? Is John’s church one of those Joel Olsteen style mega-churches or something, cause that level of corruption is pretty hard to hide otherwise.

    • Charles Phipps
      Charles Phipps
      April 5, 2016 at 12:20 am | #

      To be fair, it’s very possible he works for the Willisverse of the 700 club where massive numbers of donations are sent to the Church’s missionary efforts where much falls off for plane fuel and otherwise.

  81. Romanticide
    Romanticide
    April 5, 2016 at 12:17 am | #

    BOOM

  82. AutobotDen
    AutobotDen
    April 5, 2016 at 12:17 am | #

    John is the kind of scumbag that makes me want to temporarily redact my “Pacifist to a Point” stance, and punch the ever-loving-fuck out of.

    • Emperor Norton II
      Emperor Norton II
      April 7, 2016 at 9:16 am | #

      Don’t know about you, but my personal pacifism is not about never wanting to punch people; it’s about wanting it but never doing it.

      There are days when the wanting is pretty damn strong.

  83. LS
    LS
    April 5, 2016 at 12:18 am | #

    Did I miss a Nazi joke? What’s that line in reference to?

    • Disloyal Subject
      Disloyal Subject
      April 5, 2016 at 12:21 am | #

      http://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/03-when-god-closes-the-door/roundtheclock/

    • Shiro
      Shiro
      April 5, 2016 at 12:23 am | #

      She’s referring to Becky’s “Hitler youth” crack a few days back

    • Greatveiledbear
      Greatveiledbear
      April 5, 2016 at 12:31 am | #

      http://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/03-when-god-closes-the-door/roundtheclock/

      • Greatveiledbear
        Greatveiledbear
        April 5, 2016 at 12:31 am | #

        Whoops, beaten to the punch XD

    • Fwip
      Fwip
      April 5, 2016 at 12:51 am | #

      Did ya Nazi them all over the place?

  84. Uncertainty Moth
    Uncertainty Moth
    April 5, 2016 at 12:18 am | #

    Best prank ever: the Mustang is Ultra-Car in disguise, and she drops John off in the Amazon. Let’s see you spread the word of God to the jaguars and the venomous snakes.

    • Leorale
      Leorale
      April 5, 2016 at 12:42 am | #

      Sweet-pickle-pies to the face!

    • Rukduk
      Rukduk
      April 5, 2016 at 2:22 am | #

      Snakes: We are deeply offended that you are trying to burn us for being the devil! That was one book!! One!!

      • sirconanad
        sirconanad
        April 5, 2016 at 4:28 pm | #

        Well, it was in the first of seventy-three books and they never got their own character arc that explained why they weren’t that bad, so…

        (I’m sorry if I’m wrong but I only cared about the bible when I was an altar boy at 10-years-old, and then it quickly faded…)

  85. Disloyal Subject
    Disloyal Subject
    April 5, 2016 at 12:18 am | #

    Zing!

  86. Saaaam
    Saaaam
    April 5, 2016 at 12:19 am | #

    Well Joyce missed her chance, but now Jocelyne can throw John into his car

  87. nobodybasically
    nobodybasically
    April 5, 2016 at 12:19 am | #

    I am so disappointed that, as the comic is generally grounded in these types of issues (plus Joyce being semi-autobiographical and Willis’s mom still being like this), it is highly unlikely characters like John and Carol will ever see the errors of their ways. DX

    • Uncertainty Moth
      Uncertainty Moth
      April 5, 2016 at 12:23 am | #

      Joyce is the one that escapes, far as I can tell.

      • trlkly
        trlkly
        April 5, 2016 at 1:51 am | #

        I sure hope that Jocelyne escapes! Because the only alternative I could see to that in her position is for her to, well, die.

        (And, of course, Jordan has already escaped, it seems. Probably the most truly Christian of the bunch, given how much they dislike him.)

        • Rukduk
          Rukduk
          April 5, 2016 at 2:25 am | #

          Now I’m picturing Joyce, Jocelyn, and Jordan’s family having thanksgiving in the future and one of the kids complaining that they invited Mean, Crazy, Uncle John.

          • kelticat
            kelticat
            April 5, 2016 at 12:43 pm | #

            And cheering because Grandpa Hank is there without mean Grandma Carol.

            • vmgx
              vmgx
              April 5, 2016 at 8:07 pm | #

              An everyone wants to play with auntie Becky and auntie Dina! They brought the cloned velociraptors and the youngest can still ride them.

        • Cerberus
          Cerberus
          April 5, 2016 at 4:27 am | #

          Oh she will escape. I have no doubt about that. Hell, she’s already in the midst of grabbing what she can and building what she can before the inevitable skedaddle.

          It’s not a matter of if, but rather when. And given that she’s hit her limit here. The when might be very very soon. Especially if she sees it as a way to protect her little sister from the rest of the family.

  88. Mika
    Mika
    April 5, 2016 at 12:19 am | #

    So after all this, let’s see how many people will still be up to defending John tonight, after this final display of his grotesque hypocrisy and contempt. He couldn’t even say ‘LGBTQ’ without intentionally changing it, to show his contempt for the very notion. “Her friend is swept up in some trendy whatever,” his utter disdain for Becky, the clear fact that he didn’t spend even a second, then or now, thinking about the fact that his sister was held at gunpoint by a man prepared to murder her in order to abduct his child so she could be tortured into compliance. All of that was just “whatever,” because he won’t, he *can’t*, countenance the possibility that they could have seriously gone through anything worthy of his consideration, understanding, or care. And the little thought he *did* spend on it led him to the conclusion, apparently, that she “should have thought of that before,” before coming out, before ‘deciding’ to be gay, before defying her father, before whatever hateful shit he was about to say.

    This is the kind of man John is. I’m really waiting to hear what the defense of him will be, now. Or will it just be the fallback of “this is so unrealistic, Willis is just strawmanning christians, which he so *obviously* hates, nobody is ever like this for real.”

    I’m sorry for being so bitter, here, but, seriously – people like me; gay folks, trans folks; have been in these comments sections night after night trying to explain that people like John are real, that they exist, and that they’ve made our lives a living hell even within our own families. That even now, people like John are trying to make it illegal just to *be* a trans person out in public, to even have a public life, by trying to deny us the simple ability to go to the frikkin’ restroom – but it’s like arguing with a brick wall, and even here, being shown a callous, patriarchial egotist like John, people have *lined up* to defend him, to construct arguments and alternate scenarios where he has a point, where he’s not wrong, where if only people would stop being so gosh darn emotional and listen. Even last night, people were explaining that he “had a point,” that he was just being misunderstood. Like, *now* do you see why that is and was always absolutely bogus?

    • Charles Phipps
      Charles Phipps
      April 5, 2016 at 12:22 am | #

      I grew up surrounded by fundamentalists and most of them would have at least wanted to shoot (and kill) Ross for hurting their daughter. They also would have actually loathed him for trying to kidnap his daughter too at gunpoint to.

      • Cas madocki
        Cas madocki
        April 5, 2016 at 12:50 am | #

        And that’s a legit thing. You experienced that.
        Trigger warning for mention of sexual abuse and incest as well as mention of corrective rape as a “joke”
        But they’re are so many of us who heard how we should die. How we’re sinners, damning ourselves. My southern Baptist family would have similar feelings to John here and my own feelings would be ignored. Once, corrective rape was joked about in front of me at a reunion for lesbians and those “fad following” bisexuals. In front of me. My dad was there, who had been suspicious abusing me since I was 6. His mother said this, after just that day telling me that the most important thing I could do as a woman was keep my flower until marriage. She made a corrective rape joke about lesbian and bisexual people. My dad, her son, my rapist, the person who “stole” my “flower” and made me feel filthy most of my life? He laughed.

      • Cas madocki
        Cas madocki
        April 5, 2016 at 12:54 am | #

        So while I believe that the fundamentalists around you might not be this level of wilful ignorance and violent disregard for actually caring about people, and that’s great! It feels a bit like you’re trying to do exactly like the commenter above you said, calling out this as strawman arguments, as if real lived experience others have doesn’t matter because you know some who aren’t like that. If you didn’t mean it like not all fundies,sorry, I guys I misunderstood.

        • Charles Phipps
          Charles Phipps
          April 5, 2016 at 1:10 am | #

          I’m actually attempting to draw attention to the sheer level of insensitivity and douchebaggery which is on display here. Hatespeech is hatespeech and there’s no buttering it up. However, plenty of fundamentalist do go the Joyce route and don’t act on their darker impulses and thankfully reject that portion of their view. The fact the Browns do not in the face of deliberate provocation to the contrary which would work on many-many members of similar sects is something I’m underscoring as even worse. I’m also in no way suggesting Dumbing of Age’s depiction is unrealistic. It’s dramatized but I have no doubt the Rosses can and do exist in commentator’s own lives let alone in reality as a whole.

          • Charles Phipps
            Charles Phipps
            April 5, 2016 at 1:11 am | #

            Or, to summarize, “Fundamentalists tend to be homophobic. The sheer level of homophobia and hate on display here goes beyond that and shows it is something beyond even their religious beliefs justifying it. It is double-plus ungood and the worst of what is already a streak of religious thought I strongly disdain.”

            • Charles Phipps
              Charles Phipps
              April 5, 2016 at 1:12 am | #

              heavy-heavy sarcasm on the justifying, FYI. Just want to be clear.

              • Cas madocki
                Cas madocki
                April 5, 2016 at 1:26 am | #

                Gotcha. I wasn’t sure which direction you were going with it, but your explanation made it more clear thank you. And I agree. While Ross and John are not the only Christians, so often people let them get away with things while being silent, I’m just glad there are people like Joyce within that can say who’s hold up this is awful, stop! Even if it doesn’t work. Idk I dredged up more hurt than I thought I would and I can’t articulate well and I have typos, probably but my screen is small and I can’t see.

                • Charles Phipps
                  Charles Phipps
                  April 5, 2016 at 1:33 am | #

                  No one’s blaming you for the pain. One thing Willis deserves amazing credit for is the honesty of his web comic and I believe it’s really helping make the world a better place, even if in just a small way of showing it like it is.

      • Riku
        Riku
        April 5, 2016 at 1:59 am | #

        A certain kind of person existing isn’t proof that another kind of person doesn’t. Yeah there are plenty of people who’d be flipping out or at least acting like Joyce’s dad, but there’s also plenty of people who’d behave like John or Joyce’s mom, I know those people. Hell I even know people who would think Ross would have been in the right to disown or murder Becky.

        • Riku
          Riku
          April 5, 2016 at 2:00 am | #

          Your other comments hadn’t showed up on the page I had loaded up. Disregard this post 😛

    • Leorale
      Leorale
      April 5, 2016 at 12:37 am | #

      You don’t have to apologize for sounding ‘bitter’. It’s because their words are bitter and terrible and you’ve had to swallow a lot of it. I imagine Willis will be moderating like hell tonight.

      Privileged people don’t want to believe that evil exists (because, wouldn’t it be nice if it didn’t? That would be great!) whereas marginalized people know for damn certain, over and over, that it does. Some people really are this terrible. A lot of them. A lot of them have serious political power, too.

      Don’t like it? Well, this is where a call to action goes, but I’m not sure exactly what we can do about it (other than voting, and not being assholes ourselves). Thoughts for real world action?

    • Cerberus
      Cerberus
      April 5, 2016 at 4:30 am | #

      I feel like this comic is often an education for people who haven’t had lives of awful surrounded by truly abominable people.

      Like, if I didn’t grow up surrounded by fundie culture, I wonder if it wouldn’t all seem alien and unreal to me. Like, what? No, no one could be that small-mindedly self-destructive and awful, right?

      • Emily
        Emily
        April 5, 2016 at 6:14 am | #

        I mean if you have access to the internet it really shouldn’t surprise you. Like everyone I know is totally down with the LGBTQ or knows well enough to keep it to themselves if they’re not but I know plenty of people for whom that’s not the case because I make an active effort to encounter perspectives different from mine. It’s just a matter of trusting someone else to know their experiences better than you do instead of taking the ridiculously egotistical stance of “Well, that’s not what I experienced therefore it can’t be true.”

      • Harvey Janus
        Harvey Janus
        April 5, 2016 at 11:53 am | #

        I didn’t grow up with Fundie culture, and I didn’t find it hard to believe that this goes on when I started reading. Then again the comic slowly introduces it so you become more receptive to believing it exists as opposed to starting with John.

        Effectively, those not surrounded by Fundie culture can believe it more easily thanks to escalation.

        • Leorale
          Leorale
          April 5, 2016 at 10:21 pm | #

          I didn’t grow up with bigots, but I did grow up with the idea that the world is vast and full of wonders and terrors, so many many people who believe/do such varied things. So, if somebody says they meet a person who behaves a certain way, I tend to believe them!

      • HMH
        HMH
        April 5, 2016 at 5:17 pm | #

        I think the fact that all his characters are so rooted in reality, believable, and understandable, even the ones that are consistently vile, is a real testament to the writing skill at play here. If people are willing to open themselves to what’s outside their experience, it is very quick and very clear to see that all of these characters are very, very human, and their actions tend to be drawn logically from concrete internal reasoning that is supported by their own written or implied experiences.

  89. ninja_jesus
    ninja_jesus
    April 5, 2016 at 12:19 am | #

    I really hope John’s car gets totaled in this chapter. Or like, he crashes into a religious billboard encouraging people to be kind and understanding. “God, I need help dealing with my sister and her heathen friend, please send me a sign!” How about STOP, buddy?

  90. Kelly
    Kelly
    April 5, 2016 at 12:19 am | #

    Dang it I can’t quite get my finger through the screen to throttle John.

  91. syd
    syd
    April 5, 2016 at 12:20 am | #

    BOOP BOOP

  92. Kitschensyngk
    Kitschensyngk
    April 5, 2016 at 12:21 am | #

    It’s better to hear wisdom from someone who orders from the kids’ menu that to hear foolishness from someone who orders from the wine list.

    • Bagge
      Bagge
      April 5, 2016 at 1:05 am | #

      “Thus said the prophet and ate her Chicken fingers. Because they had not touched other stuff, which would have been an affront to the Lord.

      Also, gays are totally OK, just so we all are clear on that. Anyone has a problem with that, huh? huh?”

      ~The Letters of Joyce~

      • ninja_jesus
        ninja_jesus
        April 5, 2016 at 3:53 am | #

        The Apology of Joyce Martyr.

    • Commodore Jeep-Eep
      Commodore Jeep-Eep
      April 5, 2016 at 4:53 pm | #

      More leik whine list, amirite?

  93. Gram91
    Gram91
    April 5, 2016 at 12:21 am | #

    So is it now alright for him to be punched?

    • Falling Star
      Falling Star
      April 5, 2016 at 1:07 pm | #

      When was it not?

      • Gram91
        Gram91
        April 5, 2016 at 2:04 pm | #

        The previous strip when people were telling me violence is not the answer.

        • HMH
          HMH
          April 5, 2016 at 5:20 pm | #

          It’s never right to harm another person, with very few defined exceptions. But, I would gladly lower myself to a level far below what the world deserves of me to wreak vengeance upon some of these characters. I could live with being morally incorrect over it.

  94. Rikunda
    Rikunda
    April 5, 2016 at 12:21 am | #

    Why did the church give him a brand new car? I feel like if there is a “sin” around here it is something John has done like blackmail or skimming the top of the offerings given on Sunday. I just don’t get it. Joss is still neutral, which makes sense. Joyce is being treated like she is insane by her family, which makes no sense. Becky is happy go lucky but I think that is only because Joyce is there defending her. She feels loved, and protected in a vulnerable time.

    It is clear that Joss is ok with the lesbianism. What is not clear is her full stand. I want to say she is open minded, and understanding since she is transgender. Possibly feels jealous of Becky for having the confidence to stand up for who she is.

    I have yet to find a redeemable quality from Josh. I feel like he is one of those christians like the Duggars. They use it to defend their own hatred and use it to extort money from poor people.

    • Charles Phipps
      Charles Phipps
      April 5, 2016 at 12:23 am | #

      You’re probably not familiar with the fact missionary work is often tied to the “televagenglist” phenomenon in some areas. Also, bluntly, ministers giving themselves expansive paychecks and lifestyles is nothing new. Skimming from the plate is a time honored pasttime dating back to Babylon.

    • Emperor Norton II
      Emperor Norton II
      April 5, 2016 at 12:31 am | #

      Becky is not happy-go-lucky. Becky -acts- happy-go-lucky, but that’s her way to cope, to survive. It’s her shield against the world.

      And yes, it will bite her in the ass, and yes, what she needs to learn is to let her guard down and let her sadness show… Hopefully that day will come sooner rather than later. Best case scenario is that she’ll cry and vent for an entire day with people she can let down her guard with.

      I presume you meant to type “John” in your last paragraph. Other than that, you’re pretty spot on on what type of Christian he is.

      • Charles Phipps
        Charles Phipps
        April 5, 2016 at 12:50 am | #

        I suspect it’s a bit more complicated than that. She’s upset about a lot of things but I suspect her happiness is genuine as she has shed a terrible weight off her shoulders.

        • Emperor Norton II
          Emperor Norton II
          April 5, 2016 at 12:56 am | #

          Back in college, she might have had some relatively happy last couple of days, especially with Dina. And Hank hugging her and still treating her as family with just a touch of awkwardness was also nice.

          Although the fact that she felt safe enough in the car trip to fall asleep was probably the best indicator that things weren’t looking so bad… at this particular point.

          And then she meets Carol, and pretty much every joke after that is a shield joke.

  95. Yotomoe
    Yotomoe
    April 5, 2016 at 12:22 am | #

    Not at all related but I like drawing lewd to lighten the mood.
    Billie’s Billies are powerful.
    http://i.imgur.com/Yu5z0eV.png

    • Slartibeast Button, BIA
      Slartibeast Button, BIA
      April 5, 2016 at 12:27 am | #

      Becky Boob Screen Of Death?

      (Sorry.)

      (Not really sorry.)

    • newllend(henryvolt)
      newllend(henryvolt)
      April 5, 2016 at 12:34 am | #

      Nothing lighten up the mood more than yotomoe art, which has always been the best thing about DoA fan art.

    • Bagge
      Bagge
      April 5, 2016 at 1:25 am | #

      “Billies’ Billies”. Yup, that’s the correct terminology.
      And that’s the correct response of Becky.

    • Spencer
      Spencer
      April 5, 2016 at 11:42 am | #

      You are a constant ray of sunshine, Yotomoe.

    • Harvey Janus
      Harvey Janus
      April 5, 2016 at 11:56 am | #

      Billie used Lift Shirt!

      It’s Super Effective.

      Becky is now Paralyzed.

    • Falling Star
      Falling Star
      April 5, 2016 at 1:08 pm | #

      Yup.

  96. zmm
    zmm
    April 5, 2016 at 12:24 am | #

    Yakno.. you should have been supportive like that IN FRONT of those two. ITs good to try and help behind the scenes but you’ve effectively done nothing for them in the end

    • Greatveiledbear
      Greatveiledbear
      April 5, 2016 at 12:47 am | #

      Jocelyn isn’t perfect, and she was probably really scared of directly getting in the middle of that fight. It’s much easier (especially for someone in the closet) to confront one person than to take sides in a volatile fight between two other people.

      Besides, they haven’t left the parking lot yet. Personally I’m hoping Jocelyn gets a ride home from Joyce instead.

    • Shiro
      Shiro
      April 5, 2016 at 12:52 am | #

      In addition to what Greatveiledbear said, notice she didn’t actually go for the “you need to stop being a bigoted asshole” front. Instead, she went the “you were harsh and are kind of a shitty Christian” route. She’s still understandably afraid to directly support a fellow LGBT person, because that could lead to accidentally outing her.

      Waiting til they got out to the car allowed her to slightly shift the subject.

      • thejeff
        thejeff
        April 5, 2016 at 7:32 am | #

        Exactly.
        With a side note of not being able to take John doubling down now that he thinks he’s got a friendly audience.

    • HMH
      HMH
      April 5, 2016 at 5:27 pm | #

      I went though an entirely long-winded and, admittedly, excessively caustic in tone explanation above explaining why this is a tremendously unfair expectation of behavior from Joss. In short, we don’t know what her plans are for her life, both her and Joyce and even their shithead family have a lot to lose, and pushing even slightly too hard against this kind of thing can unleash a maelstrom of awful consequences that are morally despicable, but completely unavoidable. Joss and Joyce both are in a situation where they are actually under danger of egregious harm, bodily or otherwise, and holding Joss up to some kind of moral imperative to accept those consequences immediately and without any modicum of fully stable independence and control of her life is, at best, unrealistic for her character.

  97. Shiro
    Shiro
    April 5, 2016 at 12:24 am | #

    Also I just realized Joss included herself in “we should’ve been more understanding”

    Is she blaming herself partly for John being a doucheface, or is this a tactic to try and bring John around to being less awful?

    • Charles Phipps
      Charles Phipps
      April 5, 2016 at 12:26 am | #

      I think Joss is noting he didn’t do anything to defend Joyce or Becky.

      • Carriethedragon
        Carriethedragon
        April 5, 2016 at 12:32 am | #

        Jocelyne is a she. If you’re confused why that is, I’d be happy to explain, but I don’t want to patronize you as it may’ve been a typo or other mistake.

        I bet she feels bad that she didn’t speak up for them in the restaurant. I mean, what happened is hardly her fault, but she’s trying to do what she didn’t do in the moment.

        • Charles Phipps
          Charles Phipps
          April 5, 2016 at 12:52 am | #

          My apologies as it was a typo. Joss (is that even appropriate for Jocelyn?) didn’t stick up for Becky and Jocye during all this but gave silent consent to all of John’s attacks. With very good reason and out of fear but enough to give reason for her to feel guilty.

          • Will
            Will
            April 5, 2016 at 5:27 am | #

            Willis himself used “Joss” in the alt-text of a comic a couple days ago, so I’d say it’s fine.
            Now, ‘Jocelyn’ isn’t. There’s an e at the end of Jocelyne’s name.

          • Kamino Neko
            Kamino Neko
            April 5, 2016 at 5:48 am | #

            I hate English third person pronouns. It’s so easy to accidentally misgender someone with a typo.

          • HMH
            HMH
            April 5, 2016 at 5:29 pm | #

            I feel the content of this comment thread is a good detail to point out and I’m sad that a lot of people will miss it. I didn’t fully register it myself and it’s a very telling clue about how we are to best understand Joss’ inner turmoil.

    • Carriethedragon
      Carriethedragon
      April 5, 2016 at 12:30 am | #

      I definitely read it as a tactic she’s using to avoid putting him on the defensive.

      • Charles Phipps
        Charles Phipps
        April 5, 2016 at 12:54 am | #

        I think it may well be Josie (I think this is a better nickname for Jocelyn) is so used to being the “perfect son” to hide their true identity they never have been put in a situation where they have to stand up for someone else suffering from a similar situation. It’s probably a new and terrifying experience to be face with an uncloseted person on the spectrum who is facing all the things she was afraid of facing. With, well, good reason given Ross’ gun.