TOMORROW I’m gonna be in Seattle, Washington, for Emerald City Comicon! You can find me in the usual spot, which is labeled booth 112 this year. I’m in the directory, but coupled with “Cyanide & Happiness” so you’ll find me under the Cs and not the Ds. See y’all there! I’ll have all four books, a new print and poster, and a handful of character magnets.
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NEW RIDE SEEKING CONFIRMED
though can I, uh, “liberate” John’s ill-gotten-but-totally-sweet pony
as long as you use it to volunteer at a shelter for LGBT+ youth every so often, you’ll be using it more charitably than he ever would, so the net karma is positive.
I would drive it exactly once, to said shelter, b/c I love the car but am so afraid of ruining one
I think the saying “drive it like you stole it” is never so applicable as when you actually stole it.
I’ve never understood the saying “drive it like you stole it.” If I’d stolen a car, I’d be sure to buckle up, stay within the speed limit, and signal every turn. You attract less police attention that way.
Yeah, LGBT+ Robin Hood ftw!
oooh joyce has the bat voice…
nananananananana BATJOYCE!
She’s been infected by Amazigirl. The Bat Voice is contagious.
I mean, there’s a lot of iffy colonialism rhetoric and we sorta cause a lot of everything in the first place, and there’re the obvious blindspots of who deserves to be served but just being a little hypocritical doesn’t mean that John doesn’t still do a fair amount of good.
I mean, bash on his shortsightedness all you want but there, but for the grace of God, goes Joyce.
“…just being a little hypocritical doesn’t mean that John doesn’t still do a fair amount of good.”
But… do we actually know that he does? In places with a Christian background people tend to give missionaries the benefit of the doubt, but as far as I can tell, this is what we know about John:
* He insists that Joyce not be angry and then throws a tantrum and stomps off when he’s not immediately allowed to be the authority in the room.
* He blames Becky’s sexuality for everything bad that has happened.
* He spends his time trying to convert people who already have a perfectly good religion, it’s just not the one he’s decided is Correct;
* He skims the tithes to his mission so he can buy temporal luxuries.
There doesn’t seem to be any evidence of him doing actual good works, and in the meantime we do know that he’s converting people to his religion so he can steal from them and from God.
You the comic implied the car was bought by the church for him not bought by him. I would say instead accepted a fancy new car from his church who is funded by tithes
Oh come on I typed you know not just you damn you autocorrect gods!!!
Also anyone wanna take best on how long it will take Joyce to realize that to truly be her own person and to stand for her rights and beliefs with her family she is going to have get a job, at least part time. I also.wonder how the parents are paying for her school? I know Willis isn’t a econ major or money expert but if it’s a 529 plan they have no say on how it’s spent (though I believe t has to be spent on school), it’s hers.
If I’m remembering correctly, it can be spent on certain related expenses. My wife still has money in a 529 but has no intentions of returning to school, (she’s in a career she enjoys and already earned two Bachelor’s Degrees and a Master’s) but her mother said that it would cover a new computer if we needed one. It can also cover materials and more unexpected “educations”, like when her sister used her 529 money to pay for a certification as a yoga instructor.
I think the question is more, Can Joyce get at that money for school, even if her parents want to pull her out?
And: Did the MacIntyre’s have one?
Either way, he’s knowingly taking resources that were explicitly intended for charity and support of the church and using them for his own benefit.
John and Amber have a thematic connection in this book: believing that you’re righteous and being righteous aren’t the same thing, and an unwillingness to accept that and make changes is going to drive away the people you love. It’s just that Amber is helping others but is hurting herself, and John is helping himself but is hurting the people he believes he’s helping.
But how will he be able to drive to India without a car.
He shouldn’t have accepted the car, though. The Bible commands the followers of Christ to give up their possessions and give to the poor… so it should have been a dealbreaker right then and there. Accepting the car is just as bad as buying it in the first place.
I’m just gonna note that there’s two times in the Gospels where Christ gets actually angry: when he drives the moneylenders from the temple, and when he confronts Satan in the wilderness. In both instances, the common translations have him using the same word: “hypocrite”.
Joyce is in good company.
Yeah, seriously, fuck John. He’s the worst kind of person that calls themselves Christian. It’s bad enough that he’s a bigot, but at least those kind of people can *sometimes* be nice to people that meet their “criteria”, and you can sometimes save them, like Joyce was, by showing them the truth. But he’s an absolute blasphemer, spitting on even the inkling of caring for his brethren, and instead steals from the fucking POOR to give himself toys. He just now LITERALLY abandoned his sister and left her by the side of the road. Not that she’d likely like to ride home with him, but what he’s been doing is straight from all the stuff Jesus preached *against*.
He’s a blasphemer of the highest order, and asshole top to bottom. He makes Christians who actually value compassion look bad by association. Fuck him, Fuck him, Fuck him.
I’m completely with you on this one. There’s nothing I detest more than a sanctimonious, self-serving, piece of trash like him acting like he’s better than someone who’s more open-minded and following the true meaning of what he supposedly preaches. But major props to Joshua for shoving his hypocrisy in his face, but knowing how much of an ass John is, he won’t even be able to see the reality of it.
Small pedantry note, her name is Jocelyne not Joshua. But thanks for your support!
Stripping that car will make some sweet money. Money that could make Becky a nice little nest egg while she gets her feet on the ground. I’m not trying to push Joyce, the sweetheart, but she does know quite a few people who have a very loose relationship with the law, and a bone to pick with assholes like John.
How rude! How would YOU feel if some stranger came and stripped you??
(you could also, you know, sell the whole car for just as much money, I’m certain)
Amateur mistake. That’s way too easy to trace. You never resell the whole car. That is how you get caught. False paperwork is way too easy to get busted on. You take the car to pieces, and sell it in bits to different buyers, on sites like eBay and Craigslist, and you stagger the sales, to keep it from looking suspicious.
or, you know, sell it to ONE dude who will do that FOR YOU
I seriously doubt Joyce knows one dude who can be trusted that much. Sal might, and would be willing to help.
It’s not like it’s a terribly special car. Mustangs and Chargers are dimes a dozen these days, and frankly, not terribly efficient cars. Taking it apart is hardly a travesty.
Does Joyce know how to strip a car, though? and list the parts? vs. just going to your neighbourhood Sal (or, as I said, I’d take it… and stash it somewhere–either in a garage I don’t have or left as an anonymous “donation” in the night)
Otherwise, it seems much more efficient (and probable) to slip around to the church, find the budgets, and put that shit on Wikileaks so the poor who are funding the Johns of the world can see the fancy cars their money is not buying them.
We need a John Oliver speicial on corruption in La Porte Missionaries.
I live in a city where one church is in the process of building what they hope will be “the largest cross in the Western Hemisphere.” All done with donations, and not all those donations were given to build this cross. They were given as tithes to the church.
My city also has a horrendous homeless and child hunger problem. The one homeless shelter routinely turns people away because it can’t accommodate them and the soup kitchens sometimes have to shut down for days or weeks due to lack of funds.
The city itself as a whole is also fairly low on the economic ladder. The vast,vast, vast majority of our citizens are working class at best. And they’re the ones mostly donating to this church, not the small handful of wealthy residents.
We have all these issues, yet, we’re building a massive cross along the highway in to town. In a coastal town that gets hurricanes and tropical storms, so odds are it’ll be blown over a couple years after it’s built.
Yet, even though much of the money to build it was taken from general tithings, people still gave additional money to fund this specific project.
Given the situation here, I just don’t have much faith that exposing to John’s fellow congregants that their tithes paid for his sports car would have much effect. They’d find some way to excuse it or justify it and move on. And keep handing over money to the church, and volunteering time and materials for it’s fundraisers.
Annie:
My sympathies. Sounds like one hell of a (giant) golden calf to me.
Annie is right. I don’t live too far from where Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker had their televangelism PTL Ministries years ago (Google if you’ve never heard about them, but the fact that they were buddies with Pat Robertson tells you something). They were exposed as total frauds and crooks and Jim went to prison but they had a bunch of their supporters that stood by them. If you really want indigestion check out tammyfaye.com
@Annie
Maybe that homeless shelter could suggest to the people to the people that they turn away that they go apply for a job building that cross. No, I’m not trying to say the ‘blame the homeless, they should all just be able to get a job thing’. I’m saying they should say it in a tounge in cheek sort of way that makes your point.
Then I’m imagining all these people with real need showing up on that job site.
It could backfire though. Maybe they would actually hire a few. Then they would get to point at them and their improved situations and say look at us and how good we are. Right before the project is over and everyone is layed off that is.
Then again.. if it keeps blowing down I guess it could be a permanent make-work project. At least you get to make jokes about god blowing down his own idol!
They do realize that the cross is a symbol of Jesus’ barbaric execution by the Roman government? Established intentionally by a Roman emperor as a warning to the multiple warring Christian factions of the day (4th century AD) that further factional violence would not be tolerated? Before that, Christianity’s main symbol had been a fish.
Yes, Christians realize that the Cross was a symbol of Christ’s suffering. They’re actually…really clear on that point.
It’s a bit like homosexuals reclaiming certain epithets (that I’m not sure if this forum allows) as a badge of pride, or a memorial of what they went through to get what they’ve achieved.
I do get the symbolism, but it really gets creepy sometimes.
There was a church I lived near for awhile that had a 15′ sculpture of a hand with a nail driven through it and blood dripping down. Out in front, on the lawn facing the street. Creepy as hell, even knowing the context.
@Bob Bobberman
Ugh, the idea of hiring homeless people to build a giant cross for what I assume would be minimum wage (if not below it through some dumb loophole) kinda reeks of slave labor building the pyramids. And that’s really, really messed up.
I get your point, though, that most of the people organizing the building would turn their noses up at homeless or otherwise impoverished folks perfectly willing to work on it for fair pay.
Also @Annie, I’m really, really sorry to hear that is happening. I’m getting flashbacks to the opening of the movie “Saved” right now. :/
When other religious groups have kicked up a fuss and said “uh, hey, we live here too?” We’ve basically been told that the city has a Catholic name (only owing to the feast day the bay was discovered by conquistadors on) so it’s an homage to the city’s history, so suck it up.
A lot of Christians are upset about it too, especially because of the blatant hypocrisy (gotta wonder how many of the supporters of this project also have been saying that we shouldn’t accept any refugees as long as there are homeless war vets). It’s infuriating.
Even when I was a believer I didn’t like the cross as a symbol. I used to say it’s like wearing a charm of an electric chair or a gun around your neck.
So now there’s going to be a massive liability of an electric chair right on the edge of my city. Lovely.
This is pointless, but it’s bothered me enough to track down this post again… I don’t know why you mentioned “and Chargers” in there as though they’re the same. Mustangs are slick and sexy. Chargers are blunt and ugly. I get that they can kinda look the same at a glance, but otherwise what do Chargers have to do with anything?
Yes, I’m aware Mustangs drive like a battering ram. I don’t care, they’re my unicorns ^_^
thought I’d get that out there so y’all can laugh at me but idgaf
It just occurred to me that Joss may actually be the solution to the plot thread of Becky not having anywhere to live after this weekend is over, I just hope it isn’t the solution because Joss gets outed at the wrong time, or against her will.
Not to mention she lives nowhere near the IU campus.
But this won’t be a problem for a while. Becky needs to get on her feet first, anyway, and having a very safe place to get used to being herself and learning the ropes of the community she is joining is a special plus.
I’m not sure that she’d willingly leave Joyce or Dina.
And Willis certainly isn’t going to remove her from the cast, save for guest spots which will come at least a year apart.
Part of the reason I knew this whole trip was going to be catastrophic was because there’s no way Becky’s leaving the cast, which she would kind of have to if any of the Brown family were able to offer her a safe haven.
I’m still banking on her rooming with Marcie when they get back to IU.
Pretty kinky.
Selling car parts makes far more money than selling the complete car.
Your avatar fits this comment perfectly.
Amazi-Girl?
You’re a bit too late to, uh, “liberate,” John’s car, Ana.
It’s headed for India right now.
He put it on a boat, and it’s on its way to India. With his wife, who totally exists…
Just like Jon Lovitz was married to Morgan Fairchild. (How many people remember that?)
I’ve been feeling a bit old all week, at the ripe age of twenty-seven, bit feel considerably less so now, because I don’t know who either of these people are?
haha a friend was just laughing(?) about having to explain Johnny Carson to somebody
Yeeeaaahhhh…that’s the ticket!
I certainly remember it, though I wasn’t thinking of that bit when I wrote that post. Odd…
Like merbat below quoted, “Yeah, that’s the ticket!”
Oops– looks like merbat is actually above!
Oh, and it’s merbrat! I left out one of the r’s– on purpose! Yeah…
Now I’m thinking of mermaids with bat wings. (Yes there are such things.)
Would they have wing-arms, like bats, plus the mer-tail instead of legs, or would they have wings on their backs in addition to arms like the popular depictions of demons? Either way, they sound great!
Presumably it would be a complete mermaid with the addition of bat wings. I just want to know how Jhon knew there are such things. It’s supposed to be a big secret. Shhh!
She does exist! http://img11.deviantart.net/3f29/i/2014/267/d/4/comm__rouge_the_merbat_by_sonicraver86-d7yqwpj.jpg
but, then… https://41.media.tumblr.com/8a17d42dd8ce34d4321a4fe025414ec4/tumblr_n6rqr4iBpj1s7kjvlo1_500.jpg
Yea, that’s the ticket.
I still haven’t abandoned the “Jon is secretly gay” theory. It’s not all that uncommon for the rabidly anti-gay to be so deep in the closet that the bus never comes and frantically trying to repress their own sinful natures.
See: Orson Scott Card.
Seriously. The homoerotic undertones in Ender’s Game are rampant. I find it both disturbing and interesting that such a brilliant work of fiction was created by someone so hateful.
TBH I don’t think the idea that being gay is a choice could have survived this long without people like that – they feel certain urges when they look at someone of the same sex, so they assume everyone does and that it’s just a sinful temptation that must be overcome rather than being something that is in some people’s – and not everyone’s – nature.
It’s possible. I can see it.
As long as one stays in the closet (which is a choice) and/or denies denies denies, they’re Not Gay.
:/
Even if he is, I’m sure he married a woman — Joyce didn’t make it to the wedding but I can’t see his parents missing it. Even if they did, a lack of wedding photos would be very suspicious.
Well, he needed a better beard than that sorry excuse for one on his face.
One thing that keeps popping up in my head about John is to wonder if Christi might not be his first wife.
I read that last part as “Christ might not be his first wife” and that significantly changes the meaning of the post.
The wedding was in India, though. Can you imagine conservatives born and raised in Indiana to go to a land full of temples to monkeys and stuff and holidays where it’s generally expected that somebody be on something?
My brother got married in Nepal and only my sister actually managed to make it to said wedding. That said, there were plenty of pictures, at least, and we’ve all managed to meet her since. (She’s really sweet and awesome.)
Hasty wedding while they were on a mission?
But why would you have a hasty wedding while on a mission? Because somebody got pregnant, perhaps?
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
YOSHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
YES: YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
or as I said aloud when reading, “oh thank god.” AND I’M NOT EVEN MONOTHEIST.
I just sort of inarticulately squealed when I reached the last panel.
me too, some kinda high pitched tweet of happy jumped out of me.
Complete with hopping around.
YUSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!
Just the girls now
Makeover time!
They can give each other manicures and talk about cartoons!
Doing each other’s hair, talking about shoes, running for elected office… you know, girly stuff.
have pillow fights
play Mario Kart
I think it’s entirely possible to spot in this thread the one who is most likely prone to suffer from male gaze. Not putting anyone down here, just thought it was funny.
At first o thought mew were talking about Mario cart bc honestly pillow fights are so much fun
Plot the downfall of the patriarchy!
Punch the town!
Becoming fucking scientists…
Wow, really?
https://youtu.be/-ZwGeYu2pOQ?t=113
Makeout time.
Fart
Jocelyne for the win! ^_^
The brown family produced at least two decent human beings! Hank’s genes have a 50% success rate!
I’m probably setting myself up for disappointment, but i’m guessing Jordan is also probably okay. His mother seems to think they failed at raising him so that’s a good sign.
Be prepared to find out that Jordan is a Sovereign Citizen.
I don’t know what that means. is it bad? it doesn’t sound bad but in my experience that means it’s REALLY BAD YOU GUYS.
These guys.
Just… read the whole thing. No, I don’t get it either. The logic has something to do with boats.
And they’re not just found in the US. Similar ideas have spread to Canada and the UK, where they often call themselves “Freemen on the land.” There’s also a Canadian group called the Church of the Ecumenical Redemption, which combines those kind of ideas with claims they’re ministers, and hence not subject to the law while on church business. Which of course is pretty much anything they do, like driving.
We have them in Germany, too. Those Reichsbürger believe that the BRD is just a concern (the BRD GmbH) set up by the US etc. after WWII.
Fucking christ. I just read all that (and have also now fallen down a rabbit hole on that site of racist, violent, awful nonsense). I’d heard vague mentions of the sovereign citizen thing before but I had no idea the logic behind what they’re doing was so convoluted and absolutely insane. I don’t know why anyone’s actually afraid of terrorists, crazy Americans with guns (usually white guys) are going to be who kills us all.
Crazy Americans With Guns are every bit as much terrorists as Crazy Foreigners With Guns.
Case in point for Kamino Neko’s post: Oklahoma City.
Also the Y’allqueda takeover of the Oregon nature preserve, though that was less ‘fear-inducing’ and more ‘tragicomic’.
Had y’allqaeda’s takeover been outside of the dead of winter, we would have seen more terrorism out of them. The federal workers were legit not supposed to be there (as in, they had other duties) during their takeover. But uh, if they’d shown up to do their jobs, well….
Dammit, that’s certifiably insane. Mix that with the quiverful movement and you’ve got the making of a horror story. And I’m sure there are too many families like that out there. People really depress me sometimes.
And that link got me researching, which sent me down a wikihole which ended at the Oklahoma City Bombing, which got me crying.
MY BRAIN HURTS!!!!!!
“Brain and brain, what is brain?!?”
Then open the door first!
Kara?
It’s really hard to argue with their logic.
It’s really hard to even find their logic.
There are many and plentiful videos on the You Tubes of sovereign citizens antagonizing cops and getting tazed. They’re typically white dudes who think they can do whatever they like.
Yes. It is bad. Here’s what the Southern Poverty Law Center has to say: https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/ideology/sovereign-citizens-movement
Whoops. ShayGuy beat me to it.
One of these assholes deliberately set a house on fire and killed the first cop that showed up. http://www.tallahassee.com/story/news/local/2015/01/09/curtis-wade-holley/21354561/
Please God no. Not one of them.
I saw this one YouTube video of a woman claiming sovereign citizen shit.
It was the dumbest 9 minutes of my life, and I’ve seen some pretty dumb shit.
Yeah, the whole premise of the thing pretty much comes down to the idea if you say the right words in the right way, it will be a giant “Gotcha!” to the authorities, and they’ll suddenly be forced to let you do whatever you want.
Law in a nutshell.
No.
Yeah sovereign citizen are just…dumb…like they quote the articles of confederation. Our Constitution before our current Constitution. Long defunct, and non applicable to modern society.
Well I guess I can’t say it was the dumbest 9 minutes of life, at I learned a few things lol
They’ll also defend themselves in court, because tgey all graduated from the J K Rowling School of Law.
It’s almost like they read the Illuminatus Trilogy and thought it was factual.
fnord
What you did, I failed to see it.
We have those, too. They claim the BRD is not a legal country and they are citizens of the German Reich and BRD laws and officers have no power over them. But in their view, BRD is still responsible to provide the money they live off – the thinking for that was so convoluted I can’t even try to recap the line of “reasoning”.
Nice Joycelin is back and she sure has reasons to rant about her family.
Noooooooooo.
If he comes out writing a copyright sign after his name and babbling nonsense about the UCC and maritime law I might just start crying blood.
Jordan is either a nihilistic Goth, or worse (by their standard) a Bernie supporter.
I don’t think the strip is up to 2016, though…
They all take place now-ish, but it seems he earned their ire a while ago, so it’ll be a while before ‘a while ago’ is 2016.
Estimating based on how far ahead he is now, my guess would be that he wrote this early January. (January 6 is 92 days back, and July 8 is 92 days forward.)
January 6 was still in his baby-induced work-hiatus. IIRC, the buffer started creeping forward in early February.
So he probably voted for Obama 😏
Not unless he followed closer on Jocelyne’s heels than we’ve been given the suggestion of.
Well, not in 2008, but maybe in ’12.
Not really? I mean, it’s currently vaguely possible, if the ‘5 years older than Joyce’ for Joss that’s getting thrown around is true, and Jordan was born sometime around a year later.
But that window is rapidly narrowing, and if he’s closer in age to Joyce, there’s no way, because it is late 2016 in universe, and if he’s less than 3 and change years older than her, he would not have been 18 in 2012.
(And this, of course, is why it will not be support of a specific politician, because who that politician could possibly be changes up every couple in-universe weeks.)
THe strip is always up to date. Amber’s DS design has changed noticeably during the run despite in universe only being a couple of weeks. Willis explicitly said that it wasn’t going to “slowly become a period piece”.
well, you never know, they could be pulling a Jordan
It’s funny, because Joyce and Jocelyn both have his eyes, while John has Carol’s. I bet Willis did that on purpose.
This has been covered several times.
Paraphrased: Children get eyes of opposite gender parent, same other features of same gendered parent.
Bit of a non sequitur, but I’m suddenly wondering what Amber’s grandparents look like.
Exactly like Dorothy’s grandparents.
All four of whom through some weird sci-fi time travel gender bending twist are actually Faz.
That’s a level of past nastification that Philip J. Fry couldn’t touch. Multiple generations after Faz would be doomed to not have the Delta Brainwave.
He apparently didn’t (see his post elsewhere)…Hank got the same eyes as Joyce because that’s how he designs parents of existing characters. Jocelyne got them simply because he thought it looked cute when he was designing her (not knowing she was a girl at the time), because siblings aren’t guided by the same design philosophy.
Didn’t a lot of commentors dislike Joyce earlier in the strip? Maybe they are just victims of their upbringing and capable of change give the right circumstances. Unfortunately not all of them are lucky enough to experience that. One thing is definitely unequal though. Joyce is still young. I suspect that the magnitude of a situation necessary to lift each Brown out of their ruts grows the longer they go without.
Jon’s been out of the country, and has enough prestige in his missionary work to be given a car by the congregation (or their pastor or whatever). Is it possible he’ll change and redeem himself? Sure–he’s still breathing. But that’s going to require him, at this point, to fully acknowledge all the harm he’s done up to this point in his life. And that’s a big part of it–Joyce immediately realized she was doing harm, and self-corrected. It wasn’t easy, or pretty to watch, but she kept working at it.
Jon just stuck his head up his arse far enough to lick his own tonsils, and bulldozed ahead. He’s an adult, and he’s responsible for his own actions, and for the harm they cause.
I knew i was getting a decent vibe from that one.
Also Hank, but no one has brought him up yet, for some reason.
He’s not bad but he’s enabling Carol.
That’s definitely bad, regardless. Enabling is in the end a form of approval, because you’re letting the enabled get away without consequences or the feeling that they’re wrong.
Oh whoops ignore this, didn’t read the Willis comment down below yet. Please ignore me.
Agh I posted that to the wrong one. Curse you midnight posting.
Maybe, just maybe, he isn’t so much enabling Carol as he is trying to survive her?
I’m not so sure he’s an enabler so much as he is spineless, yet. Regardless, I don’t think he’s a BAD person… he’s just not respectable either way.
I mentioned hank when he showed up to get joyce and it turned into a thread about various hanks from various shows/etc
She sells used Pontiac hatchbacks? No wonder she doesn’t like the Mustang.
Jocelyne, you truly are the best sibling. Ever.
I bet her rants are going to be the best!
I mean, she’s a writer, she’s got 20+ years of living in the closet pretending to be a straight white man, and she just got back shoving John’s car straight down his urethra like the replacement cock it is.
DAMNNN
I’ll second that DAMNNN, and add a slow clap.
I’ve got a bunch of friends behind me all going “OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH” right now.
I was going to make a joke here, but now I’m afraid it might be over the line.
I’d say go for it, but that’s just me.
Walk it instead.
InDEED. They are going to be inventively ragey, I’m sure.
“Pretending to be a straight, white [CIS] man”? 😉
…. while I have trouble disagreeing with anything you just said in principle, I think you may have been using replacement cocks wrong.
…. though I’m not entirely sure given the wide variety of fetishes out there, so if that’s an intended use for them, no judgement!
OH
OHHH
OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
https://youtu.be/1esrEb9p0Wc
I wanted to put this in its own post.
But putting it here feels much more appropriate.
Definitely.
Hells yes
And if the chicken fingers don’t work, there’s always soft serve.
SHE CAME BAAAAACK <3
http://imgur.com/qvqFwdx
http://imgur.com/wf6cyHn
That’s never going to stop being cute. Still holding out for that ship.
“This does NOT mean we are friends…”
“By no means does this make us friends.”
I was hoping someone would get the reference :3
Yay yay yay. Yay.
I like how the family is split right down the middle of biggots and cool people. Joyce went to college to decide which one she would be.
Eh, she has the blue eyes….apparently it was genetically predetermined.
Actually, the blue eyes are about gender. It’s how Willis proceeds, apparently: every character has the eyes of their opposite sex parents and the hair of their same sex parent.
I have been hearing this anecdote a lot! It is not really true.
Once a long time ago I posted something about how I design parents based on their children, often by giving their opposite-sexed parent the character’s most obvious attribute and the same-sexed parent some different attributes just so characters don’t look like younger clones of their parents. Sometimes this is eyes! Sometimes it’s not.
But when I design that same character’s siblings, that is no longer a rule. Things are just switched around willy-nilly. There is no guideline beyond adding variance. When I first designed Jocelyne, I hadn’t decided/realized yet that she is transgender, and so I was just drawing a boy with big cute eyes because I thought that’d be appealing. The blue eyes are not about gender. It just sort of worked out that way in the long run, at least as far as Joyce’s generation is concerned.
Huh. Interesting. I’ve heard that anecdote several times too, so I just assumed it was true.
And this is why they say “the plural of ‘anecdote’ is not ‘data'”
Exception: Joe, who really is just a clone of his dad.
I’m fairly sure Joe’s dad is in fact Joe himself from the future.
The Willis hath spoken!
Too bad that Other God doesn’t correct people when they garble The Word of. 🙂
I have to say, Willis, I think that Jocelyne is one of the most adorable characters you’ve ever drawn. 🙂
I’m counting two to three. Joyce, Jocelyne, and the Dad vs John and the Mom (I do not remember the parent’s names). Who else is with the biggots?
Well it was Jocelyn and Hank against John and the Mom, now Joyce has discovered at college that she is part of the former, breaking the tie
Don’t forget about Jordan. He did something to alienate Carol.
Re Jordan, Carol blames herself for not “squeezing” him hardening [to break him?]. See? She really is a good mother! I wonder if she meant squeezing Jordan’s head, like that scene of Game of Thrones, or his ‘nads.
Hard enough, not hardening …
We don’t know what’s with Jordan. And if Hank Comes around that could be 4 vs. 2.
Let’s see here. Four Siblings Plus their parents and we’ve met five of them. Two of those five are clearly taking a hardline stance.
Hank is pretty clearly on the fence. I don’t think he’ll ever stop regarding homosexuality as a sin but he’s trying hard not to cast stones at least which is worthy of respect.
So I’d say it’s still up in the air.
I think Hank sees Joyce’s loyalty to Becky as admirable. He probably thinks she can bring Becky ‘back’, while mom (I want to say Carol?) and John are just ready to cast her away and not bother. Plus he knew Ross was an asshole so he doesn’t really respect his action, no matter if they align with his beliefs or not. At the very least Hank respects Joyce as an adult, unlike the bigots.
It’s more than that. Hank said that he had often wanted to punch Ross, or he at least *strongly* implied it. I think Hank is a lot closer, by now, to where Joyce is. At the very least, he sees Ross as a general failure, and certainly a failure as a parent; whether that’s because Becky is a lesbian (according to the screwed-up idea that homosexuality is a result of bad parenting), or because Ross kidnapped both of their daughters at gunpoint, or a mixture of the two.
Maybe I’m being too charitable, but I think it’s the gun thing, given the hint about how Hank saw Ross in the past. Hank seems to just not like conflict, which is why he doesn’t stand up to his wife much, apparently.
Well. Also, the long-term consequences of conflict with his wife are probably…not good.
Actually, I think it’s a bit further than that, even. It doesn’t matter to him if Becky comes ‘back’ or not–he knows she’s a good person, and that trumps any sins she might commit. The whole “Judge not, lest ye be judged” thing obviously took much more deeply with him than with Carol.
This comment probably sums up the whole plot pretty nicely!
“Dumbing of Age- her whole family is split right down the middle of bigots and cool people. Joyce went to college to decide which one she would be.”
Yeah, that’s Joyce’s arc in a nutshell. Complete with being told all her life that if she ever sympathized much less was a “cool person” she’d go straight to Hell.
Yep. That part of Joyce’s background, in particular is what makes her arc both compelling and emotionally exhausting for me. I keep making baby steps away from my church because they, in the collective sense, are intolerant assholes…but the individuals there are family and friends (and painfully shy as I am, about all I have). When you’re told all your childhood to “lean not on your own understanding,” making what from outside seems like an easy, healthy break from a toxic environment is…not easy. And I say this as a dude; I can only imagine how much Joyce feels like the old school Levi’s patch.
I took baby steps away from my parent’s church for years for this reason. Eventually, I came to the realization that the individuals were also intolerant assholes. I still didn’t make a clean break, as I’m still my parents’ child, and breaking from the church like that would have been really bad from a family political sense. But church became much more palatable as a game of “show them they are hypocrites using their holy book” instead of trying to be accepted… and found that was a game that did not get me rejected nearly as much as I thought it would. That said, I also learned that nobody in said church more than a decade older than me would acknowledge any biblical evidence I provided indicated they were personally doing something wrong, unless the person was a new pastor, and then only for a few moments.
Yes! Team!
Girl power!
LET’S HEAR ALL THE COMPLAINTS!!!!!
….fine.
It will take Joyce WAY too long to punch everyone in the city!
It is, technically, unfeasible to get Chicken-Drunk!
Service is very slow at this restaurant!
THERE’S GRAVY ON ALL THE FOOD, EVEN THE DESSERT
ITS DAN GROGANS HOUSE OF GRAVY!!!
https://youtu.be/7nnhqiXgkMg
Joyce’s eyes in the third panel upset me.
Chicken fingers heals all wounds
Whereas chicken WIRE wounds all heals.
Going by the alt text, sobriety is a “wound?”
I know it always makes me feel terrible.
It’s how Linkara survives all those battles.
Beer-battered chicken fingers?
The batter contains Cure Serious Wounds potions.
YESSSSSSSSSSSS
And Jocelyne has money! Money for sodas to go with those (cheap) kid’s menu items.
Money? Dude, she’s a *writer*. I assure you, whatever other things she has, money isn’t one of them.
Probably has more than Becky…
As a fellow writer, yes, I know our level of poverty. But she’s still getting an “allowance” from her parents, if I had to guess from knowing families like this.
Somehow I get the feeling that allowance is gonna run out soon.
Mostly she’s become numb to the taste of instant noodles.
Only the finest of Chef Boyardees here!
This is what writers like Jocelyne call “splurging on something nice”.
Is this Joyce’s brother, the trans-man, you’re talking about? If so, please use his selected nominative, otherwise you’re being very very rude. Just because some individuals in the family can’t cope with his gender, is no reason to add to the hate.
You’re confused. We’re talking about Joyce’s sister Jocelyne, the trans woman. It’s Joss’s family who think “his” name is Joshua.
Where are people getting the idea that Joss is a trans-man?
If she was, that would mean she was out to her parents and John, and there’s no way on God’s Green Earth that would fly with at least 2/3 of that group.
From the idea that eye colour is based on opposite sex parent. And yes, I see that Willis has de-bunked this here, which I’ve been believing for ages, based on comments by well-meaning but obviously incorrect fans.
I knew that Jocelyne (see, I can change) was trans, I just thought that ‘cos of the blue eyes she must of been a trans-man. After all, Joyce is constantly talking about wanting a sister.
Me bad and confused. You have no idea how confused. 🙁
….legitimately can’t tell if trolling.
Pretty sure trolling.
I hope.
Nope, terribly terribly confused. Guess I hang around too many trans people – Jocelyne’s posture and body language is typical of many of the trans-men I know. See above how the eye-colour myth contributed to this.
I’m not a troll. I’m a pansexual aspie, so I often get things mixed up.
Ok I understand now. I’ve just seen too many shitty comments in here to fully trust “misunderstanding” most times…. but I’m glad that’s all it was! 🙂 Hope I didn’t make ya feel bad. 🙂
And so Jocelyne joins the Rebellion against bigotry.
Yay!!! Jocelyne cane back!
*starts looking for a black supervillainess costume for Joyce*
Wolf had Amazi-Joyce, if that counts.
THIS GOT SO MUCH BETTER
I have been pouting for a while because I was the first one putting Amazi-Girl’s mask on Joyce and then somebody did the whole strip and stole my thunder so pout mode enabled but I DIDN’T KNOW IT CONTINUED THIS IS NOW 1000% BETTER 😀 \o/ /o/ \o| |o/
Why is Joss burned when she comes back for this strip? Is it an assumption of what John did to her?
John probably has similar powers to Amazi-Joyce, since they’re from the same family. Why he never used it earlier is beyond me.
Heh. One of my faves was the Young Justice comic from back in the day. A character named Arrowette nearly kills a criminal and worries that she’s going bad. Her thoughts on it are hilarious.
“Oh god, I’m going to have to get a slinky black costume that shows off my cleavage. Oh god, I’m going to have to get cleavage.”
Best part of that arc? Peter David directly lifted it and her new costume from an identical Green Arrow story . . . because he was one of the few writers who remembered that (Check the Year One annual) Arrowette actually IS Green Arrow’s daughter.
Literally, someone asked Arrowette’s Mom, “Whose here dad, Green Arrow? ” She deadpan “Yes,” with a pissed, resigned look .
She has a superhero name like Arrowette and noone remembered she was Green Arrow’s daughter? I didn’t realise Clark Kenting could go meta.
It’s not like archery skills are genetic.
It’s a superhero universe. They probably are.
Even trickier, since such combat skills tend to run in families even without genetic connections – adopted “wards” and such.
Also works that way in the Discworld, eh, as in the case of Susan, Duchess Sto Helit, and her Grandfather. S’why she can do THE VOICE and stuff.
That would apply perfectly then. In Discworld traits are inherited bvia the soul.
I thought her name was Artemis.
Young Justice was original a DC comic in the late 90s (think Teen Titans but good) that featured an archer character called Arrowette, who was implied to be Green Arrow’s other illegitimate child.
Artemis in the cartoon is a quasi-original character based on an obscure villain of the same name.
Wait, I thought that ALL Super Chicas are born with Super Cleavage?
Why Arrowette, rather than Arrowella? OR Lady Arrow? Lady Arrowellaette?
Ooh! I forgot Arrowess! Why wasn’t she named Arrowess?
“Hey look, I’m back after initially abandoning you while you were having an emotional breakdown. Does this make up for it?”
“Buy me some damn chicken fingers and then we’ll talk.”
Does it really count as abandoning if you come back after like, one minute, after telling the instigator of the conflict off in a less public, volatile setting?
I’m honestly not seeing how it’s Jocelyne’s fault she didn’t wanna escalate the very public scene in the middle of a restaurant. Some people aren’t good with that stuff.
As long as she makes it known to John what he did was Not Okay (which she did) and then shows she ultimately supports Joyce and Becky (which she did) the complaints really come to “wow you’re not good with very heated public confrontation.” A lot of people aren’t!
Not saying you’re not welcome to your opinion, but I really don’t understand these complaints, it seems to hold people to unrealistic standards.
She made it very clear yesterday she had no intention of going back initially. She walked out with John and then said “Hey, maybe we should have heard Becky out” which isn’t “Hey, let’s maybe go back in there and try to smooth things over” or “Listen, you have a safe trip home, I’m going to make sure our sister’s okay.”
It wasn’t until John made that crack about how he thinks the LGBT crowd is just a fad, intentionally screwing up on the T letter. As in the trans community, which she’s a part of. It wasn’t until John got personal with her that she dropped the pretense of being in the middle.
This isn’t an unrealistic standard. A sibling was screaming about how she had a gun pointed to her head and is now acting out of character compared to the sister they used to know, clearly she has PTSD. But Jocelyn just walked out on Joyce having an emotional break down and did nothing to defend her or to try and offer some comfort.
That’s not unrealistic. That’s being a good sibling.
She’s back now what fucking more do you want???
People don’t always make the best first decision when they are in the middle of a familial split. She wanted to try and mediate between the two as best she could.
Also it’s not like it’s been any longer than 2 minutes comic book time. Also she is being a good sibling. She’s back, heart to hearts are about to go down.
Jocelyne has not abondoned Joyce. Abondoned would have been getting in that car with John.
Jocelyne has not abondoned Joyce. Abondoned would have been getting in that car with John.
100000% this
So, because of one possible interpretation of a single word balloon, you’ve decided that a character did something horribly awful. Nevermind that we’ve never seen her do anything worse before.
No, it’s just the typical pattern of finding one possible interpretation or small slight, and then use it to shit on the LGBT character.
And it gets fucking old.
I see where you’re coming from, and if Joyce’s reaction matches yours, it won’t surprise me too much. But to be fair, Jocelyne’s REALLY bad at confrontation, and at least part of that stems from her fear of accidentally coming out as trans. As a side note, I also can’t blame her for that fear, because John’s done nothing but justify it since Becky sat down, and she’s only realizing at this lunch that Joyce has learned to be more accepting than her brother. Speaking as someone who also doesn’t handle confrontation well, I’m honestly not sure I’d have been half as good a brother as Jocelyne is a sister.
Leaving out the ‘T’ may well have been deliberate. It also might not have been. Either way, John was being a prick.
Jocelyn. Is. Not. In. A. Safe. Space. Don’t expect her to act like she is when she is not. She has secrets that could get her murdered in cold blood overnight if the wrong suspicions are raised at the wrong time. You can’t hold her to a martyr’s standard when there’s very little to win by taking the fight in the open field. There is no real advantage to be gained, it’s a purely moral victory, and escalating the already simmering animosity her sister and Becky are under wouldn’t be doing them any favors. If she had actually succeeded at damage control with John, that would have been a win. We also have no idea yet about what we may or may not have missed between yesterday’s strip, and her walking into the last panel of today’s.
Gh. Thank you. It’s so frustrating when people seem to forget Joss is currently in a potentially lethal situation too, and has been for years. I haven’t been in her situation exactly, but I know that when you feel constantly unsafe in an environment you don’t know how to get out of, it’s natural to instinctively avoid conflict.
Not saying some magically brave super confrontational thing in the diner doesn’t make her a bad sibling, it makes her human. The way DoA characters do things like this organically and shaky makes them more relatable to me. It’s part of what I love about the whole comic.
And as you pointed out, it would likely have been little more than a moral stance, and while those can certainly feel nice in the moment, I value results higher.
YES. THIS.
See, this here is my first comment because as much as I love the webcomic and the community, I am often turned off by how much vitriol is heaped upon characters. The thing is, Willis writes gorgeous character arcs that are often true to life. People learn and change and grow. Yes, it involves missteps (big and tiny). No, it does not mean they are awful people. I do not believe this is meant to be a step-by-step guide on how to be the most progressive, awesomest person ever, yet I see so many comments bringing down the anger and judgement when someone is not the perfect social justice warrior.
And Jocelyn is in a very tough situation… I am not trans* myself, but I have several friends who are and their lives are far more complicated than mine will ever be. Example: if I am being harassed by a man in public, I would never fault a trans* person for not coming to my rescue. They are at much greater risk for violence, outing, etc., than I am as a cis woman.
Also, most of these characters (not Joss) are eighteen. 18. 18. Please remember that. Legally an adult, but developmentally, brains are not mature until mid-twenties. I’m now 32- at 18, I thought I knew everything. Now, I realize that I was a well-intentioned, confused dumbass. But I grew as a person due to my experiences and mistakes. Missteps are common in growth; owning the misstep is part of the process. It is a process, not a magical wand that says “Okay, reject 18 years of all you’ve ever known and BE PERFECT TO EVERYONE NOOOOOW”.
Also, grand confrontations may feel good in the moment. Real life is not quite so simple.
Signed…
A social worker who deals with the messiness of human nature intimately every day
PS: Willis, you write wonderful, messy characters. This is the first thing I check when I wake up. Thank you!
Wow, that’s. I’m pretty sure Jocelyne is used to trans issues being ignored by her family. She tried to initiate a conversation with John telling him he should revaluate how he treats Becky, she was clearly trying to persuade him to come around and be supportive to her and Joyce. You are choosing the worst possible interpretation of her actions for no reason.
And you know what, so what if John being flippant of the LGBT community contributed to her finally letting loose?You are basically being like “look at that selfish trans person trying to stay safe and how dare she care about issues that affect her”. You’re holding Joc to ridic standards.
And honestly, that’s something that gets under my skin. I see how much my girlfriend struggles staying safe being trans-I may only know the sitch second hand but I know enough to know it’s not this simple thing you’re dismissing it as.
And, you know, John’s reaction to Joss’s small, gentle, private comment about how they could maybe have done that better surely tells us there’s nothing she could have said to salvage the situation anyway. I’d say getting rid of John in the fastest way possible is not only the safest option for her but also best for everyone.
The offense is greatly ameliorated by the fact she swiped John’s wallet.
LOUD SUSTAINED CHEERING
Jocelyne makes my little gay heart sing. <3
Like Grace Kelley?
Jocelyne’s been putting serious pressure on my girl, Carla for favorite character spot. Given the directions of both arcs, I think this one might go down to the wire.
I wanted to see more Joss. I am not disappointed.
If external votes count, put me down for jocelyne.
Is that some sort of adorable musical I haven’t heard about?
yay!
YAAAY MORE JOCELYNE
Is Jocelyne going to come out of the closet now? Or are they just going to commiserate over fried food?
“Wow, our parents suck.”
“I know, right?” *munch munch munch*
I think she’ll need to ease Joyce into the idea of trans first. Bring it up, get her to understand what it means, give her time to wrap her head around it first.
Probably commiserating, considering that now might not be the absolute best time.
everybody’s parents suck; in different ways and to varying degrees, but parents are just kids pretending to not be scared out of their minds. it’s the ones who think they’ve done a good job you gotta watch out for.
Everybody’s parents suck. Joyce’s mother and Becky’s father are overachievers in the field, and John is cut from that same cloth.
I’m pretty sure any one of them are capable of suck-starting a B-52.
I think this will be one more nail in the coffin of Joyce’s religion. Or at least, her religion as it’s been presented to her up to this point.
Jocelyne is smart enough to know that right now, Joyce & Becky are the ones who need to be the focus. She’s not going to come out and make this moment all about her.
Joyce, on the other hand is going to really start to see that when push comes to shove, it’s her lesbian (SINNER!) friend who voluntarily left with her father (PUNISH THE SINNER!) to keep Joyce from getting shot, and her trans sister who came back for them. Unlike her mother who is proving to be a cold hearted hypocrite with no grasp of “unconditional love” for her children, and her oldest brother who wouldn’t know empathy if it were to Tokyo Drift that Mustang up his wrecked ’em.
And then there’s all her friends at school who are varying degrees of sinner, ranging from atheist to gay.
The people acting the most like Jesus – nonjudgmental, compassionate, etc. – are the people her family and their church condemn.
She definately need a new church.
Religion and Christianity is hard subject for me to put into words, simply because time and man have turned Christianity into the religion it tried constantly not to be. Let me explain.
See, God did not want a hive of mindless robots singing his praise simply because they were told to. God made man to choose him willing of their own choice, which I why I believe he let the devil into the garden of Eden to tempt mankind. Because mancould not really choose God if there wasn’t an opposition.
Christianity started down the path of strict religious beliefs with the after the introduction of the ten commandments with the Levitical laws. Though the original ten still remain infallible beliefs, they end up reading more as guidelines to being a decent person.
Which all brings me to the my main point. The first commandment, “love your God with all your heart”. God only wants people to love him, talk to him, be alone with him. My pastors would put it like this. “God wants a relationship with you”
That being said I agree with in a way. But rather putting her religion in a coffin I think it will, eventually, be reshaped into a healthier understanding of God and where religious views/laws/practices fit into said relationship with him.
This turned out as long as I expected it to be. Sorry for ranting.
Nice job on the perfect 5-paragraph essay.
Holy shit i didnt even realize, im typing this out on my phone.
Man why can’t I do this shit in class when it matters…
Well, it’s easier to sound better when you actually care what you’re writing about.
Eventually, yes, probably before she is taken home, though Jocelyne may surprise me by being worked up enough dealing with John’s entitled bigot ass to just slam it on the table like “Boom, snare drums, I want in on your queer girl pow-wow”
Joyce a second later: “I’m not gay!”
Joyce a minute later: “Wait, girl, what?”
Dangit Joyce why you gotta break the theme.
Hey, maybe Jocelyne has ten dollars!
But now they’ll need FIFTEEN.
Wait, maybe they can call John back and…
Hm. That’s not going to work, on a number of different levels.
It’s worth more than $15 to not hang out with John.
That’s how he really paid for the car. Charging people to not hang out with them.
Becky only got a haircut out of that, but he has more experience.
Maybe they can just get a a big basket of seasoned fries to share, and talk over.
No can do. The seasoning would touch the fries, and that’s horrible.
Maybe nows a good time for Joyce to maybe try eating like an adult every once in awhile
She doesn’t always have to order from the kids menu
Or maybe she can treat herself to comfort food during a time of intense stress.
I always gravitate to chicken mcnuggets or kraft mac n cheese when I’m depressed. It makes me feel better.
I mean, I love fancy foods too, but nothing is as comforting as the stuff I loved as a kid.
Yeah I know…its just that well my opinions and views have changed since reading this comic but I just can’t get my head around her food items no touching each other and only liking kids food
Beckys gay and that’s cool, Jocelyn is a girl and that’s cool but Joyces eating habits have just about taken over for me as the most infuriating aspect of her personality
I dunno I’m thinking it may have something to do with how I was brought…everything was eaten and nothing was wasted and that was that
and yeah I realise what I’m thinking is dumb and odd
joyce doesn’t waste food, she just takes a while to eat it because everything has to be recompartmentalized at first.
Eh, picky eaters are a pet peeve many people share with you. I don’t think it’s dumb or odd to be annoyed by it.
’tis also a very neurodivergent trait (autistic folks, people with OCD or eating disorders), and so it can be a little raw to hear it criticized, jsyk.
Absolutely! Sorry to come off insensitively or make you feel bad. Your response is why I try to give the benefit of the doubt, or figure out why someone is so selective or particular about how they eat IRL before saying anything (if at all). I have friends/family who have OCD and some pretty gnarly food sensitivities. I also have friends/family who are picky for no other reason than they’ve let that obstinateness from childhood define them as an adult. It’s the second one that gets to me but eh, that’s my problem, not theirs. Anyhow, no matter the reason, it is a mostly benign behavior that just gets on some people’s nerves, like loud chewing or nail drumming. It’s ok to get annoyed; definitely not ok to be a jerk to the source. 🙂 And annoyance tends to dim when it’s replaced with understanding anyway.
Also, there are people with especially sensitive tastebuds, especially to bitter taste. Most vegetables are not even to be considered for them. Would you like to tell them that they’re wrong for having those sensitive tastebuds?
There are even (lots of) people with a specific gene that makes cilantro taste like soap. Would you like to tell them that they should suck it up and use it anyway?
And of course, sometimes it’s not even the taste, but the feeling of chewing it, and how it makes you gag. Always a fun one, that is.
And I can guaran-damn-tee you that this is not something we (yes, I am a picky eater) are happy about at all. All those awkward meals in public over the years. The low-grade paranoia that develops as I think I’m constantly being judged. Yeah, you think I want to be picky? You think I have not tried eating more varied foodstuffs in my adult life? Gotta tell you, that gag reflex, once it’s there, simply does not stop working.
The pet peeve of being annoyed by picky eaters is, at its core, a pet peeve of “why don’t everyone like what I like?” It’s egocentrical to the extreme to think that something as wildly subjective and different as taste.
So yes, it IS FUCKING DUMB to be annoyed by it. Stop that. Now.
This. All those monstrous people who dare to have different preferences.
Shoot, see my post above. I thought to elaborate on my first post that just because you find a behavior irritating doesn’t mean it’s ok to be a jerk about it, for just the reasons you gave. I really should have. 🙁 Person above me was invalidating themself so I was trying to say, naw, you’re not dumb and odd, other people share your experience. Just don’t be mean to those folks cuz their reasons may be quite valid. It was a topic thoroughly discussed just a couple days ago (and I very much enjoyed the threads) so I didn’t want to be redundant. Sorry my friend. Please respect though, that there are plenty of behaviors that people do for valid reasons that others still find annoying even if they know why the behaviors are expressed, and that’s sometimes as difficult to control as a gag reflex. I don’t think that’s fucking dumb fwiw. It just teaches patience and understanding even if that doesn’t solve the annoyance completely. Often it does though.
I know its a dumb and pointless thing to concern myself with and I’m sorry for any hurt caused.
I always just assumed it was because Joyce is the youngest and female of a large group of kids so maybe her picky eating was a way for her to take “control” or something
Again my apologies to anyone I’ve hurt
aww you’re both really sweet. and yeah. conflicting access needs sometimes! conflicting brain things. hugs all round for those that want them.
OK, that clarifies things a lot. I apologise for the “fucking dumb” sentence, that was me being needlessly angry.
As for you, you are spared the imperial dungeons for now.
MEMO TO SELF: Get some imperial dungeons installed. But nice ones, we’re a benevolent emperor after all.
Yay! Hugs for all!
Dude, kid’s menu is cheap. Always order off the kid’s menu in diners.
Screw that, I always order from the kid’s menu when I can.
I usually order from the happy hour menu.
It’s kinda like an adult’s kids menu.
Eatting like an adult means eating things you don’t like for no reason?
It’s do a LOT of things you don’t really want to do for no reason.
Kinda like being a dwarf, but usually with less alcohol and death.
I mean, she literally swore to God himself that she wouldn’t. That’s pretty binding.
It would be if God wasn’t so forgiving.
I feel like, to some extent, it could also be very symbolic for her to herself to do something adult, given how massively her agency was just disrespected, and how she had already committed to it and might get some vindication out of following through
Good point, and one I agree with to an extent, but there’s something equally symbolic about her eating from the kid’s menu anyway, because why should she have to fit John’s definition of adulthood? She’s being a major source of support for her homeless best friend, and learning to empathise with people she hadn’t expected to even a month ago, and is going through a major reshaping of her worldviews as a result. Meanwhile, John is storming out of an argument with his little sister that he knows he can’t win, but is claiming the moral high ground by tone policing her, and is currently driving off in a huff, probably to tell on Joyce and Jocelyne to their mother, in his fancy car that was paid for by people less well off than him.
Joyce has already proven that she’s more of an adult than John could ever be. Let her eat off the children’s menu, his crappy definition of maturity be damned.
Yeah, this.
That’s gotta be embarrassing to admit when people ask why you are in Hell.
or from the “adult” menu. there’s such a thing as ordering off-menu, after all. “hey, could i get this burger, but with grilled chicken instead?”
or in joyce’s case it would be “could i get this burger, but with no ketchup etc, and all the available toppings on separate plates so they don’t touch each other”, but the point is you can get a little weird or extremely simple when it comes to ordering at a restaurant. kitchens can usually accommodate without it being the end of the world.
Honestly, it’s moments like this that comfort food is needed the most. She can push against her food boundaries some other day, right now she needs the food she loves the most to bring her back down from scary black word balloon murder cloud.
look at the moment she should just scoot over to the self-serve machine and lamprey onto that thing until she feels better, no lie
really, they all should. or whatever is equivalent.
That sounds… horrifyingly, deliciously unhealthy. I kinda want to try it sometime, but just thinking about it makes me nauseated even as I salivate.
I’d do it, but I have cold-sensitive teeth.
The coroner’s verdict was “death by ice cream head”.
A.K.A. Brain Freeze
Yes Jocelyne! Thanks for ditching Johnny B. Douche and sticking with the girls!
It’s complain-about-family-o’clock somewhere.
I SCREAMED ‘YAY’! JOCELYN JOCELYN JOCELYN!!!
For the sake of two decent peopke, I will not destroy your family. Nah, too old testament. I do, however, really like Jocelyn now.
Or “The Count of Monte Christo”? Where he destroys EVERYONEs familly except this one cute girl his mate likes. (Whoops, 150-year-old spoilers.)
I am so happy and relieved by this. Really looking forward to this girls’ lunch.
You know, Joyce’s anger is fascinating in contrast to John, just because…take a moment and imagine who she would be, in this situation, if she hadn’t gone to college.
But Becky had still come out to her. Would she still have had her revelation without her two months of being inundated by the real world? Or would family have trumped everything?
Hm. Personally, I think Joyce would have had a much harder time with Becky coming out to her. She would have still wanted to be Becky’s friend, but might have tried to help Becky “recover” from being gay instead of accepting her. But I don’t think there’s any way Joyce would have abandoned Becky entirely. That’s just my take on it, though.
Probably accurate, if her “relationship” with Ethan was any indication.
This. We forget now, but Ethan was her first “gays are human” moment, complete with poking him like he was a shapeshifter wearing a glamour:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/02-guess-whos-coming-to-galassos/poke/
I think she would have done the right thing too, but it might have been too slow for Becky to not have already ran off under a bridge assuming that Joyce had abandoned her too.
I think it would have been much harder, but ultimately the I think Joyce has some fundamental convictions of love and acceptance that would be impossible to reconcile with the more shallow and hate-filled attitudes of some family members.
Deep down inside, Joyce would think many of the same things and eventually come to many of the same conclusions, but never in the vital time frame where it would make a difference; and, even if she could, she could never have stood up to her family over it.
That, and Becky maybe ending up kissing her like what happened at school would have been overwhelmingly more traumatic. With her closed and sturdy views of sexual repression, she might have never gotten over it or moved past it.
Less than four weeks actually.
And even then her first reaction was “Let a dad handle the problem”.
So this is my impression: Without her college experience she would firmly believe that what Ross decides (putting Becky in a corrective camp) is the correct thing to do.
Also helpful link:
DoA-Timeline.
Alright. I think I can start liking Jocelyn now.
Jocelyne, more like Yasselyne.
I can’t help but read Joyce’s black speech bubble in a Christian Bale batman voice.
Heh. Given the title of this chapter, “Christian Bale” sounds like a pun.
You win
There is no other way that should be read.
Dr. Girlfriend?
Don’t they have similar gravely voices? It’s been a bit.
Dr. Girlfriend is intelligible tho
But can she breathe in Outer Space?
If one could get drunk on chicken fingers, my life would be much better.
You can get the kind that have been marinated in moonshine from half a dozen places in Gatlinburg now.
Well there’s always a meat coma.
chicken fingers with bourbon bbq sauce, heavy on the bourbon.
The rush of simple carbohydrates. . .
Well, if you take a heavy antibiotic regiment and then binge on yeasty foods, you can literally get drunk on bread! It’s happened!
‘Auto-brewery syndrome’ is a thing. (Google is my friend.)
its happening, its really happening
YES!! SO MUCH YES!!!
This has all of my love.
Dumbing of Triangle: DAY 21
That first panel does match what she’s saying. If this was a villain origin.
Wait, it’s not?
I feel cheated.
Panel 2 Joyce looks like Faz. X’D
Panel 5 matches how I feel about that panel.
Becky is poor! And also being a supportive friend. Yay Becky!
And now, to the important bit: the hero we all wanted but barely deserve returns. So gentle, yet so noble.
YAS QUEEN
Is… Is Joss about to come out to them? Am I reading to much into this?
For her and her sister’s sake, I certainly hope not. She absolutely cannot reasonably trust Becky the Teflon Loudmouth and Joyce the God Warrior with that kind of sensitive and dangerous information.
same. becky is not known for subtlety, and joyce is still getting the hang of keeping things from her family.
that being say, jocelyne could just be like “i have lgbt friends” without specifying that she is a direct part of the community and not just as an ally. it’s low level obfuscation, but i think at this part in joyce and becky’s personal respective developments, they’re not ready to be trusted with the whole truth.
that being said*
Could be joss is the first family member to find out about the attempted sexual assault on Joyce
Now that is likely something we will see, and something that should hopefully turn out really positive.
They probably aren’t ready for the whole truth.. But I bet for plot reasons truth is exactly what they get.
Carol will probably try to kick Becky out of the house, and get Joyce to leave school, and then either they will out Jocelyn accidentally, or she will out herself in support. I can see Joyce being shocked, but I cannot see her rejecting her sister. And I also can totally see Jocelyn coming out to them now. Just her face when Joyce said she always wanted a sister… Joyce is the first family member who has given her hope that she can be accepted by someone she loves, and she has been bottling things up for a long time. I’m sure she has wanted to tell someone in her family for ages. Plus, she said she wanted to complain about the rest of the family first.
Aww yeah girls night out!
Yaaaay~
Jocelyn! Joyces big sister she always wanted!
JOCELYN <3 LET ME HUG YOU FOREVER! 😀 Also ty Becky for being truthful. You know you gots no moneys. :3
I’m wondering when ‘Jocelyne’ will become part of the conversation…
So why the quotation marks, hmm?
as in “you should prolly know that I identify as ‘Jocelyne’ now, even though I’m still the Joshua you grew up with”
Because quotes are particular in making it clear that he wasn’t taking about Jocelyne the person, but rather the fact that Jocelyne is “Jocelyne” and not “Joshua”.
I just ask because usually quotation marks are used to signify doubt, like:
She says she’s “too smart” for school.
Which if put around a trans woman’s chosen name would be really freaking rude, even just a fictional one.
Either he didn’t go with him or John pulled a really dick move.
Willis has gotta be leaving that ambiguous for a reason. The happier we end up being with this conversation, the worse we will find her and John’s altercation to have gone, at least most likely.
Considering that John’s entire raison d’etre so far has been the perpetual pulling of dick moves…
Yeah, I’m still gonna go with Jocelyne voluntarily stormed off, because I just love the visual of it and the strength it must have taken to so fully reject her douche of a brother.
I assume John kept deflecting and Joss got tired of it. Since we’ve been seeing that for 5 days, maybe Willis figured he didn’t have to show it?
The way I see it, the less that the ending of their disagreement can be spun directly against Joss, the less vital and dangerous information she is likely to reveal in turn and the less likely it becomes that her coming out is the plot thread we’re heading for in the immediate sense. I really feel like if Joss full-on mega-spills to Becky and Joyce, it means that she knows John is about to bury her, somehow.
My guess is that John responded to the quip about the car with something along the lines of “Well, you didn’t have a problem getting a ride in this car twenty minutes ago,” and Jocelyne just said “Huh. Good point.” Then she walked off and left John confused (but still fuming a bit) in his shiny, morally-questionable car.
Yay! Jos came back to hang with the cool peeps!
I can get behind this “punch everyone” plan of Joyce’s. (It’s safer than getting in front of it.)
I think on this pleasant (ha) note I’m going to take a hiatus from reading. Be back in like, idk, three months when I don’t wanna rip my own skin off every time I see someone arguing strawman, or think about my own abuse, or think about how I will likely not transition before I am 30, or think about… lots of things. Later peeps.
that’s totally valid. thinking about how hard it is to transition is very depressing. hugs
Best of luck hang in there.
Goodbye, and good luck.
Be well ♥
*supportive hug*
And if you ever need support or help with anything, please don’t hesitate to reach out to us. You are awesome as who you actually are and you deserve not to be miserable and triggered.
Really sorry that you’re not feeling well. I hope things improve for you soon.
Jocelyn was almost certainly in the “awesome” books as of yesterday. She confirmed it today.
Well. I’m very, very happy now.
THERE SHE IS!!! There’s the world’s greatest older sister! Go drive home alone in shame, John. IN SHAME.
There’s probably a radio talk show to keep him company and reaffirm his beliefs.
Dishonor on John! Dishonor on (at least half of )his family! Dishonor on his car!
The time has come for me to do something I swore I would never do. Let me prepare myself….
Deep breath in, deep breath out….
SSSSSSSSSSSSSSQQQQQQQUUUUUUUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Ahem. Thank you. Goodnight.
… (shifty eyes) …
me too.
(squeeee)
What do squeeky wheels get again? Was it gravy? Would fit the restaurant setting at least…
Yay for a dependable support system! Double yay for at least one supportive family member!!
Am I the only one who wanted to see Jocelyne sass Jon some more?
YESSSSSSSSSSSSS
MY PRAYERS HAVE BEEN ANSWEREDDDDD
Do they make beer-battered chicken fingers? I’m pretty sure the cooking process reduces the alcohol content to nothing, but getting drunk by placebo effect would probably be in character for Joyce.
Sal and Walky might be able to get drunk off beer-battered chicken fingers, but I’m not so sure about Joyce…
That’s a myth. Different cooking methods reduce it by different amounts, but it can never get rid of it. The main thing is that it doesn’t take all that much to begin with.
So there’s some alcohol left in it, but not enough for her to get even non-alcoholic beer drunk. (Which takes around 20 beers to get a buzz for people who have no tolerance.)
I hope she comes out to them…. I really want to see her flourish and be happy.
Ah man, I had a reference planned and everything if Joss didn’t come back.
Fuck it.
“Probably ain’t no hope in here, probably ain’t no hope for the life of anyone.”
Swear to god, I teared up when Jocelyne entered there.
Y’all three go forth and kick ass! (Emotionally speaking, that is.)
I love this strip so much. 😀 I usually don’t read these when they post overnight (partly cause it’s something I look forward to during morning slog at work) but I had a feeling something like this would happen and I didn’t wanna miss it. 😀 I think Joss might be my new favorite character.
Overnight post? What is this thing? Time zone shuffling, your midnight post is my 7 am post 😛
And the funny thing is that while that says 12:07, it was actually 11:07 PM because daylight savings time yaaay. Haha.
GIRLS NIGHT OUT LET’S DO IT.
unrelated-to-striply, utenaxanthy 5eva
Jocelyne, did you throw John into the car? And now John is dead and you also don’t have a ride?
I like the idea that this perfectly pleasant character snapped, murdered her brother, and came back for crappy fast food.
Brown Sisters must have snapping genes. And hey, it’s diner food. It’s different!
I mean, Carol clearly snapped years ago.
If she killed him, taking his keys is easy enough. It’s not even stealing if you kill them first! It’s plundering, and that’s okay!
Nah, she threw the car into John… and now the car (and John) are dead.
<singing>
John Brown’s body lies a-moulderin’ in the grave.
He didn’t know that his was the soul he had to save.
So he was a mighty douchebag, wanted punching in the face.
His sisters will rock on.
</singing>
I have been hoping for this reference since he appeared. 😀 Thank you!
Had to put the earworm I’ve had stuck in my head since his first appearance in the preview panel to good use. >_>
Glad to know I’m not the only one who had. 😀
Drunk on chicken fingers . . . hm. Maybe if they’re beer-battered and Joyce is an insane lightweight it’d be doable. Kinda like House Elves getting drunk on butterbeer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JUCfX1P1ik
GOOD LARD I’M SO EXCITED FOR THIS CONVERSATION.
“For starters, I have this SUPER annoying little sister…”
HA! Classic Jocelyne.
It really would be, though. Now is not the time but maybe she can finish with it? IDC it’d be so totes adorbs.
So long as she punctuates it with a headpat or something.
No way, she does the cutesy laying-across-her-back thing like, “I have this super annoying sister,” and it’s cute because holy shit so does Joyce XD
MY HEART
“*Urgh*… I’m… not *urgh* annoying!”
“I think the evidence disagrees.”
I think it’s interesting (not sure if it was intentional or it just worked out like that) but the girls all take after Hank (Joyce and Jocelyne both have blue eyes and are more open-minded; Hank has shown that he’s not as rigid as Carol, and doesn’t just *assume* he’s right) while the only one of the sons we’ve seen so far (John) definitely takes more after Carol (both in eyes and in world-view).
Lots of other people probably noticed. Just observing. And wondering if that was intentional.
well, idk about the personalities, but willis does give kids the eyes of the diff gender parent and hair of the same gender parent! so, the appearance thing was intentional at least.
wait nvm willis answered this above. guess you could say it’s been… jossed.
*ba dum tsh*
Its a story telling technic, big anime like blue eyes signify goodness/innocence.
Its why Mary’s eyes are so beady.
But so were Walky’s when he was all innocent of his parents’ racism. The better distinction is that Mary’s eyes contain all that is unholy in the world. The ‘Pandora’s Eyelids’ if you will.
Actually, Mary has big Brown eyes in analogy to Joyce’s big blue eyes, as both were conceived as “good Christian girls”. In other words, Mary is the Dark Joyce.
SHE CAME BACK :’D
So, is this the part where Joyce has to wrap her mind around the fact that she has a sister?
And by ‘wrap’ I mean like that mustang wrapping itself around a highway divider at 90 mph.
One thing I’m really hoping is BECKY is able to wrap her head around the concept of trans. As awesome as Becky is, she’s still a babe in the woods. Still, I have faith she’ll grok to it very quickly.
Sorry, that wasn’t meant as a reply. I swear this forum is out to get me sometimes,
I think she’s going to say something off color at first, but I think she’s going to turn around really fast. Like, Becky has grown a lot since her biphobia with Billie and has decided her stance with people being things is to just support it and welcome that knowledge in. We see it in the Patreon strip with Sierra and her interactions with Dina.
She may not get it at first, she may say something fucked up at first, but I think she’ll be unconditionally supportive a lot faster than Joyce who will probably do her trademark BSOD over it even if she’ll eventually come out as Jocelyne’s fiercest defender.
Please, don’t get our hopes up about the Mustang.
I know Willis promised he wouldn’t kill anyone in a car accident, but that doesn’t mean he can’t destroy the car.
I am now a sad.
Good!
I hate Mustangs!
“Trans” is a way harder concept to wrap your mind around than “gay”, and I’m not sure either Joyce or Becky have even heard of it. I could be wrong, but I strongly doubt Jocelyn’s going to come out to either of them today.
not like, objectively, actually….
(there are so many heartwarming stories of kids just Totally Getting what trans means! and a long long history of trans+gay+everything else being conflated into the same “genderweird” category. they’re not actually like, Ranked In Order Of Difficulty.)
It may have come up in the print-outs Joyce collected at the sexually-questioning-meetup!
Not may – must!
In the following strip Jim explicitly references “LGBTQ resources and answers to some questions we get asked a bunch”!
(Like “What does LGBTQ stand for?”).
It would be so so awesome if Joyce put all the pieces together and cam up with the answer herself.
Then Joyce is going to need this: http://www.amazon.com/Getting-Eatting-Chicken-Quotations-Drinking/dp/B00MCCFCBG
I love these two’s dynamic here.
Becky trying to support and help calm down Joyce, but allowing her full space to experience her anger. Putting a hand to support but not wanting to go into the full hug she wants to because things in her heart are still so complicated. And an offer of chicken tenders like everything is normal.
Joyce so awash with emotion and righteous anger and the peeling off of what she has been drowning in. But then that heavy relaxation, as if the weight of this town has just been pressing on her since she arrived.
And then Becky realizes in that moment of resumed normalcy, that everything is not normal. She’s got nothing to offer that costs money because she has so many steps before she can even make money of her own to treat her best friend to much needed chicken fingers, so she Beckys and makes an awkward jock about it.
And Joyce, full of empathy, but also full of self-hatred and a morality based on beating herself down for “sinful thoughts”, trying to interpret it as a call to deny her anger, but Becky seeing this directly immediately counters it and validates her anger, placing that pain on top.
Their friendship dynamic is so powerful and it is so glorious that Jocelyne was able to take the big risk in rejecting her brother’s vileness and join that beautiful pairing and offer her moral support as well… though hopefully Joyce has money, cause otherwise no one is getting chicken fingers tonight.
“I mean, yeah, they’re bigots; but at least they’re not gun-toting bigots? That’s worse, right?”
This comic is a nice palate cleanser for the current section of this chapter. Possible that there will be a location switch now.
well on the one hand there’s an immediate fear for one’s life, and on the other hand there’s dying a little bit inside each time you have to be in contact with them. i don’t know which is easier to heal from. i expect there’s psych research on the subject, but arguably it comes to personal resilience and honestly neither are exactly ideal…
I would definitely think it is a person-to-person issue, and a family-to-family issue, and a trauma-to-trauma issue. How badly any one part of the poison cocktail is going to hurt has more to do with that victim’s personal relationship with themselves and with their trauma than it does any kind of objective scale.
Oh, and I forgot to ask, what’s the current payout on Joyce hitting Johnathan now? $1 to $40 bet?
Incredibly high, given that she’ll have a hard time reaching him seeing as Jocelyne just threw him and his car to India.
Well if that’s the case put me down for a dollar. Even with a loss it’s 20 nickels well spent, imo.
Wow that’s a lot of moms lol
It’s just so beautiful. In a world full of toxicity, Joyce will always have her Becky, and in a world full of bigotry Becky will always have their Joyce.
*Misty eyed*
Joyce and Becky and Joyce and Dorothy are two of the most heartwarming friendships in webcomics today.
Like I said before, for me the main point of the comic is Joyce and her two ladies. Both those relationships is so beautiful and make everyone involved better.
I’m still hoping Becky and Dorothy eventually bond over something. They’d make one hell of a power trio.
…huh, late night comments lead to funny thoughts: if Halloween ever rolls around, do you think those three might cosplay the Powerpuff Girls?
HEADCANON!!!!!!!
Also, I’m sure Becky will get over her onesided feud with Dotty eventually, but until then it’s just so fun.
Yup, I think Becky’s jealousy feud thing will end the day she finally gets over Joyce romantically, which will take awhile, because brains are butts.
“Brains are butts” should be the only allowed bumper sticker motto in the universe.
“And Joyce, full of empathy, but also full of self-hatred and a morality based on beating herself down for “sinful thoughts”, trying to interpret it as a call to deny her anger, but Becky seeing this directly immediately counters it and validates her anger, placing that pain on top.”
Agreed entirely with this, but I also like to think that Becky’s words have an element of “No, let’s complain about your family, your mum was a complete bongo to me last night.”
She clearly is validating Joyce’s anger, because she’s a good best friend who is concerned for Joyce but it’s worth remembering that she probably has some equally legitimate complaints that she’d probably like to make about Carol and John. Although if she was to air those grievances, she would let Joyce complain first, because Joyce is clearly the most immediately in need of a chance to vent, and because Becky would want to know what’s an acceptable thing to say when criticising her friend’s family.
That’s very possible. I could see Becky continuing trying to hold that information back and trying to minimize it, but I think it would do well for all of them to trade stories of family awfulness.
…awwwwwwwwh. Love Jocelyne, so much. I’m very much looking forward to this sister-to-sister chat.
Truth be told, I…have been feeling odd lately about going “maybe this is the strip where she comes out”? Like, am I focusing too much on that aspect of her character? Sorry, that’s probably navel-gazey of me, I’m just concerned I’m being crappy or reductive without thinking.
(What I really want is a Day in the Life of Joss Brown strip)
Also, I am very well acquainted with “I am going to punch everyone in the whole world.” Joyce is being very me lately.
Also well acquainted with that feeling.
I am usually saying every second word a curse and saying something like “I want to hit something!” When it happens, too so I get Joyce here
Oh, I’m hanging on it too. Like it’s not everything in her character, but it’s just the big elephant in the room hanging over every scene that Jocelyne has with her sister. And it’s largely because of what it would mean in trust and because of what it would mean for Jocelyne to finally be seen by a family member as who she really is.
Makes sense! Thank you 🙂 Maybe that’ll be the eventual outcome of this feelings jam? I just hope hope hope Joyce takes it well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLTZctTG6cE
“Cool, me first.” A great line.
BECKY: “I’ll gladly pay you Tuesday for a chicken finger today!”
One thing I’m really hoping is BECKY is able to wrap her head around the concept of trans. As awesome as Becky is, she’s still a babe in the woods. Still, I have faith she’ll grok to it very quickly.
I also think this is a big moment for Becky as having Joyce’s big sister come to support her more or less doubles the number of childhood friends who she has. It’s got to be like water to a woman in the desert.
My reaction while reading this –
http://gif-finder.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Sloth-Laugh.gif
I was going to try and put my reaction into words but you nailed it
Possible alternate final panel: “Line starts here.”
So who has it worse: Joyce, who stood up to a bigot with a gun and has upset minimum two family members; Becky, who’s dad kidnapped her at gunpoint to “save” her; or Jocelyne, who’s living a lie and will be considered dead to at least two of her family members?
All tied, but the “living a lie” (not being out, anyway) wins by a hair.
That’s my interpretation anyway.
Hmm, I think Becky is in the worst position right now, as the other two are fighting the possibility of being in her position (no means of self-support, obstacles to becoming self-supporting, and no family). Joyce is in the strongest position, she faces being without a degree, but she probably isn’t facing getting hate-crimed (which is a terribly low bar). Jocelyne already has her degree but could be in serious physical danger if her secret gets out. It all sucks, they all have very legit complaints to add to the conversation.
Was only focused on family interaction, didn’t consider in social-economical factors. Though you could consider what is currently happening to Becky could then happen to Joyce, for Carol could ‘cut her off’ and thus would be without college and home at all.
Yes, but that’s my point, Joyce is trying not to have to be in Becky’s situation, which implied that Becky’s situation is worse than Joyce’s current situation. (Unless of course you highly value having less to lose.)
“Joyce is in the strongest position, she faces being without a degree, but she probably isn’t facing getting hate-crimed”
She’s the outspoken and defiant daughter of members of a fundamentalist sect. Honor killings are absolutely a thing.
True. Depressingly true.
I forgot to consider the mental health risk aspect, where Becky is actually the best off currently.
Becky and Jocelyne have some hugely increased risks because their families reject them (read the suicide stats next time you want to cry), but Jocelyne is skillful and Becky is highly resilient, and there’s no indication that they’re struggling there.
Jocelyne is closeted, but she is surviving it… we don’t know how she handles her feelings about this, but very safe bet that being closeted and dysphoric is an awful and constant stressor.
Joyce has untreated PTSD from Ryan-trauma (which also puts her at risk for another layer of it from Ross-trauma). The mental trouble that is happening trumps the mental trouble that could happen or might be happening.
So.. I guess the Oppression Olympics medals go out according to your priorities. Physical situation? Mental situation? Current reality, or what dangers they face?
Very poignant and astute assessment. Becky is in the worst tangible life position at this current point in time. Joyce probably has the worst immediate outcomes in terms of her growing trauma potentially interfering in her life in ways that will hurt her future. Joss, well, she’s been suffering the longest of the three and is likely in the most general danger of direct harm from another person. These are all awful situations, and there’s just no comparing them in a way that gives a satisfying hierarchy or any kind of meaningful answer.
I was looking for a quote about how pain cannot be measured and ultimately stands alone, but since I couldn’t find the one I wanted, there’s always a more flowery one I can’t help but remember.
“Everyone is entitled to their own sorrow, for the heart has no metrics or form of measure.”
Oh, and while I was looking I found one by a Saint that seems appropriate: “Do not measure your loss by itself, for if you do it will seem intolerable; but if you will take all human affairs into account you will find that some comfort is to be derived from them.”
(no I can’t be original it’s 1AM)
From a different angle and a very different source, but that reminded me of Callahan’s Law: “Shared pain is lessened; shared joy, increased—thus do we refute entropy.”
Trailer voice: Next summer, Joyce punches EVERYONE.
Joyce: “I’LL PUNCH YOU, MOTHEREFFER”
John: “Raaarrrh, I’m representative of a toxic culture, also Argentinosaurus huinculensis was the largest dinosaur…. who wrote this line?”
Becky: “I’m tootes the damsell in distress!”
John: “Ugh, Joyce’s friend, did you get your gal pal to write this? See, this is what’s the problem with today’s entitlement culture, next you’ll all be believing in shit like evolution.”
Everyone: *dead silence*
John: “What… OH GOD, A TINY ASIAN WOMAN IS EATING MY FACE!”
*In the background “Welcome to Triassic Park” plays over and over.
NOT THE FEDORA!!!
*slow clap*
I think it’s hilarious how the fedora became a symbol of that kind of dickbag, but it’s also a shame because I have one and now I’m never gonna wear it
Get a trenchcoat and a cigarette (or toothpick) and you have an instant Halloween costume as a private eye.
Do what I do. Wear the trilby* anyway. Fight the douchebags. Don’t let them take your hat from you (metaphorically speaking)!
*Today’s “needless pedant moment”: A fedora is the kind of hat that Indiana Jones is wearing, and is meant to look cool when robbing graves. Trilby is the kind of hat that can make you look cool in an urban setting… Or would, if it wasn’t so strongly associated with douchebags.
Especially hilarious, given the history of the thing.
Given that people who know she’s a university student treat her like a 12 year old I can only imagine how John would treat Dina.
eeuuuuughhhhhhhh oh no that is the WORST mental image. D:
Yaayyyy!!! Go Jocelyn! Complain to your heart’s content, then go with Joyce to sucker punch the city, starting with John! His mustang shouldn’t be to hard to find in a relatively middle class looking locale such as this. Hell, maybe invite AWOL brother Jordan to jump on the Punchwagon!!
The way he’s been presented, I think the more likely outcome is that he’s a paragon of Christianity that Joyce will be able to aspire towards…but I also accept there’s a small chance that we’ll get swerved, and he’s not on speaking terms with the Browns because he is somehow even worse.
Yup. He’s what all the “successful” Brown children are supposed to become. And Carol is worried because they’ve lost Jordan and are losing Joyce, but luckily they still have Jo- oh, oh noes!
One worry that is starting to build in me, though, is one of something horrible having happened to Jordan, and that being the reason behind his total familial excommunication. Like, perhaps he spoke out about something horrible that happened to him that the Browns were unwilling to accept, and subsequently blamed him for? There could be so many reasons, and they range from beautiful sunny happy reasons all the way to the bleakest of circumstances.
I think whatever it is, Joyce at least has not been informed of how serious it actually was. After all, it’s just been a disagreement and now he’s “too Jordan” to attend family events and it’s okay, “he’s still a good kid” and deflections. But I think he’s either disowned or been heavily encouraged to stay away from the rest of the family for his own mental health.
Hopefully, we’ll see a piece of that story someday.
I feel like whatever it is, his Dad desperately wants to be on his side, but is also stricken with a lot of responsibility vis a vis family unity, and possibly isn’t at the point that he can actually feel certain in believing whatever it is his son is saying, even though he suspects it might be true.
I assume that is true based on what we’ve seen. I think Hank says these things because he either fully or half believes it despite everything.
But it’s very telling that Carol is never seen to agree with Hank’s protestations that it’s a very civil and loving conflict.
Drunk on chicken? That sounds like plain old over eating to the point of being sick to me.
Any sufficiently advanced food coma is indistinguishable from being drunk.
You could get a lot of chicken down in an hour…
ok I know I’m missing something but why do people keep calling Josh, Jocelyn?
Reference: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/04-just-hangin-out-with-my-family/writer/
HA. i only just tried the url to jocelyne’s website. well played, willis.
It still works even if you put in all the other URL stuff, too:
http://jocelynejbrown.com/2016/comic/book-6/03-when-god-closes-the-door/trendy/
So I guess, metawise, Joss has been writing this comic the whole time?
Yeah, you can be pretty sure if he mentions a website in universe he already owns the real life version. Doesn’t want someone buying it and redirecting it to a shock or hate site, because you know some ass would do that.
….that. Is. So. Awesome.
At the end of Family Weekend, the character we then knew as Josh came out to Ethan as Joyce’s sister, Jocelyne. She’s not currently out to her family as they would most probably disown her.
Thank you it can be hard to remember every little fact.
And to my understanding the acceptable nickname for Jocelyne is Joss. So it’s not Josh, it’s Joss; and she can probably hear the difference.
She’s a trans woman but is not out to her family. So they know her by her dead name, but the comment thread knows her real name, so we’re all ahead of the characters in comic.
Ooh, small note, if you look at the tags up in Willis’s box in the top, you can click on a characters name to see their other appearances. For Jocelyne, it’s been set as Jocelyne since she came out.
Is the term “dead name” even appropriate if she’s still using it?
I’m not an authority on the specific term, but if nothing else, I would assume the name is dead to her. Anybody I’ve been friends with during their transitions has had at least a short period where they were partially out, and if they were in a situation where they were being their authentic selves, public or private, the dead name is very, very dead.
This, but after Shay Guy’s question, I also kind of want to call dead names you still have to use because of being in the closet “zombie names”.
Because they’re monstrous, unpleasant, painful and hard to shake off, and if you’re not careful, they can consume you up leaving you feeling dead and hollow.
BOOM! Perfect. Just too damn perfect.
Internet, make it so!
You heard the Emperor everyone, Zombie Name it is!
“This is not a plea for your sympathy,” Kean told him. “It is a request only for the most elementary understanding. I simply want you and everyone to know that zombieism is not a visitation of sins, but a disease, like mumps or cancer, and nothing more.”
– Robert Sheckley Immortality Incorporated (1959)
Emperor Norton would say that.
Becky, Becky, wonderful lovely Becky…
For those of you who wondered why she bummed a ride to spend a weekend being harassed by Joyce’s family… THIS is why. To be there and offer Joyce hugs and chicken fingers when she needs it.
The gentle probing is heartbreaking. No full hugs (not sure if Joyce can take it yet), but sympathy via light touch and some light jokes to try to divert focus.
Awwww, yes Joyce you CAN bongo about your family with Becky. She would love to.
…and then big sis to the rescue.
Ofcourse, nevermind the fact that BECKY shouldn’t have to be spending so much of her energy comforting Joyce, as BECKY is the one going through the trauma, but yeah it’s good to see Becky being there for her.
Well, everyone needs comfort and friends are friends for there. Becky is there for Joyce because Joyce was there for Becky during it and still is.
Yes, Jocye and Becky do spend a lot of energy trying to support the other and minimizing their own need for comfort. (maybe most adorable/hilarious here http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/03-the-butterflies-fly-away/payup/)
If nothing else, Becky gets to feel that she can do something good for Joyce, which I think is very important for her.
I’ve been struggling to articulate myself for a couple minutes here, so screw it, I’m diving in:
It seems like many commenters here are looking at this arc from a ring theory or “circles of support” perspective. Obviously, if we’re going to talk about the trauma that was Toedad and his gun, then Becky is in the center ring, and Joyce would be in the next ring out. Ring theory thus holds that Joyce should not vent to Becky about what happened, because Becky should not have to comfort Joyce when Becky is the real (or at least primary) victim of the trauma.
The problem with this in my eyes is… well, for one, ring theory’s transactional model of compassion lacks nuance, but that’s another conversation. More important is that it fails to account for the ways that Joyce is experiencing a separate and distinct trauma from Toedad.
Joyce’s anger here, Joyce’s distress and frustration and horror, is not just about what happened to Becky. It is about what is happening to Joyce. It is not just about Toedad’s betrayal. It is about her own family’s betrayal. These clashes with the Browns are not merely aftershocks of Earthquake Toedad, but disasters in their own right. And they are happening primarily to Joyce.
Are these new Brown family frictions related to Earthquake Toedad? Yeah, of course. And I’m not trying to minimize Becky’s trauma at all. But it strikes me as unfair to suggest that Joyce is not also enduring trauma of her own here, or that she’s somehow appropriating Becky’s trauma. A humiliating shouting match in which your brother tells you that he doesn’t like what you’ve become can very much be a trauma all its own.
Personally, I figure that anyone claiming that someone isn’t entitled to seek comfort from their friends because their friends have had worse things happen to them does not understand what friends are or how comforting works.
Well I always felt that ring theory was more for cases like someone talking about how hard it is to support someone who has cancer to the person who has cancer for example.
Absolutely, and there it works okay-ish. But I’ve definitely seen it moving out of that specific context into discussions of dealing with a traumatic event more generally (and also of experiences with oppression, but that’s another topic).
I brought it up in part because a portion of the discussion around the short Sarah arc that kicked off this chapter centered on how she shouldn’t have been complaining to Dina because she was further from the trauma (so, ring theory in all but those exact words). In that case it was definitely a fair criticism, and one Sarah herself acknowledged. But suggesting the same of Joyce seems like a misapplication of ring theory. My own misgivings about it aside, that was really my main point – sorry if it got bogged down by poor wording! (Blame my tired 2am brain.)
Yeah, it particularly falls apart when the person in the outer ring is facing open warfare with her family over supporting the one in the inner ring.
As well as of course being the inner ring of her own previous trauma.
Forget all this prioritizing. Hugs and support all round!
Yeah, this! Becky wanted to be there for Joyce and do the best friend thing and so far she’s been stuck just stiff-arming bigotry and trying to minimize her humanity to protect Joyce. This is her just doing what she thought she could best do for Joyce and it shows just how important they are to each other’s lives.
Now if they can just stop their addictions to sacrificing for each other and let themselves vent fully the trauma and poison they’ve been swallowing this last week or so, they’ll both be better for it.
They should do a Frozen-esque musical number. “Do you want to wreck some bigots?”
Do you want to wreck some bigots?
Come on let’s go and play.
I rarely see your tri’ngle smile,
It’s been awhile
It’s like you’ve gone away!
We used to be best buddies,
And we still are,
Everyone can see why!
Would you like to wreck some bigots?
Why do they all have to be bigots?
Okay bye
(Last line should be, “oh, Joss, hi!”)
I’ll admit that in some ways I think Becky’s tagging along have made things a little harder for Johce, but at the end of the day, she is being a good friend by being there for Joyce, and I think it’s helping more than anything else
Yeah, Becky is not a master strategist and doesn’t have to be. But her heart is in the right place.
Personally I think she did the right thing coming along, but that’s less important than WHY she did it. She did it for Joyce. And Joyce knows that.
I think Becky also did it for herself. She saw Hank and Joyce together in the lobby, and she wanted to be a part of it. She hoped that she could find a place in Joyce’s family- a comfort zone. Carol has wrecked it for her, but Becky was looking for a home to come to as well and hoping Joyce’s was a good surrogate.
Well, her initial offer to accompany Joyce happened before Hank appeared at the scene.
I guess while the conflict with her family would have been less extreme without Becky there, Joyce would’ve been alone to face it. Unless Jocelyne stood up for her, but against the whole family being politely passive-agressive I doubt she’d have found her moment.
“I’ll gladly pay you back Tuesday…”
For you, it was chicken fingers. For me it was… wait, what?
So was this your own joke or didn’t get the reference?
JOCELYNE IS THE BEST SISTER everyone can go home.
It’d be kinda neat if she and Sarah got a chance to chat for a bit.
WELCOME TO SEATTLE WILLIS, TRY OUR POT!
YESSSSSSSSS YUUUUUUUUUUSSSSS YAAAAAAASSSSS <3 u joc
How do we Patreon request a “Joyce destroys the Dumbiverse” comic?
Patreon… or Slipshine?
GOD DAMN I love this gravatar.
All comes down to what you want destroyed, I guess.
Joyce becomes the Punchier, the hottest anti-hero out of Marbel comics. Watch her punch her way through fundie towns, building a non-sexual harem of lesbians.
Speaking as a cis-straight male, what’s the point behind having a non-sexual harem of lesbians? Just seems a waste.
You can keep the lesbians warm and safe like birds in a nest
There is no such thing as a waste of a person! Also homoromantic asexual lesbians totes exist. And non-sexual romantic relationships, and queerplatonic relationships, and alllll sorts of other relationships that can be non-sexual and still totally harem-y. Yayyyyyy diversity!
Unnatural
Hush. Listen to them singing…
At Alt-Text: Regular Show totally uses hot wings as an alcohol surrogate, with one of the characters regularly acting drunk after eating too many at their local hangout.
i’m so right there with joyce on that awkward feeling when you complain about your family to someone who arguably has it way worse.
also, yay, jocelyne stuck around!
also also it only now occurs to me to wonder how many cars the brown parents have, because i can’t imagine they’d be too thrilled about being stranded at home if they only have the one.
I’ve kinda been mulling over why/how Becky is so stable, given what all has happened, especially compared to Joyce. And yeah, obviously part of it is just who Becky is and who Joyce is. But I think a big part of it is, Becky’s already gone through the internal changes that Joyce is dealing with. The external circumstances that may result from those changes, they can suck, but Becky knows who she is and Joyce is still trying to figure that out.
That, and Becky doesn’t really externalize her trauma, like, at all. She punches it down into the corners of her psyche and lets it ferment.
That’s part of it. The bigger part is that she’s actively hiding how much this is all tearing her apart inside because she doesn’t want to be a “debbie downer”:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/04-walking-with-dina/downer/
She only seems stable, because she’s doing the survivor trick of pushing pushing pushing against the despair and collapse to make sure all the ducks are in order and all the t’s are crossed.
If she’s anything like me when I did that, she’s due for a full collapse when the pressure fully comes off her for a relaxing spell. Probably at a really bad time when she’s got something all cute planned with Dina.
I think also she is so stable because she had a very bad childhood. She went through a lot more than Joyce did; her father was awful. Imagine that but then knowing for years you were what he hated. And then losing her mom… She has had not only more time to process, but she has had to be strong, whereas Joyce grew up incredibly sheltered, and was happy. Its the shattering of her happy little bubble that is so traumatic… Becky never had a bubble to be shattered.
Exactly, years worth of emotional armor and coping mechanisms that Joyce never had to develop. Much like Jocelyne.
Joyce is getting hit with it all at once and she’s completely unprepared.
Mind you, Joyce may be better off in the long run. All those coping mechanisms are long term damage that will take years of work to overcome when they’re no longer needed.
Ah. I’m glad that he came back. THough likely due to loss of a ride.
but still he needs to properly side with his lil sister and back her up
Least nega shows her head.
Also Becky sure is holding herself together. presumably forJoyce ssake
Can you please not call Joss a ‘he’, she’s a trans girl, it’s… really rude.
Or it was an innocent mistake by somebody who missed that part of the story. As opposed to your comment, which was pretty rude under any circumstances (like mine!).
Nah, just because a slight is unintentional doesn’t make it not rude.
Nobody said otherwise.
That doesn’t change the fact that it’s stupid (and probably mildly sadistic) to call somebody rude because they called a male-presenting fictional character “he” without checking the comments to make sure the character in question isn’t trans (or whatever you’re implying would have been due diligence).
I mean, it still is pretty douchey. When I first started my old job years back I wasn’t intentionally trying to misgender my coworker, but I still did and it was something I had to own up to. People unintentionally do awful things all the time.
Doesn’t make them a bad person, it’s just, hey, it’s still not cool. Now you know.
Not in my book. That term is reserved for people who are intentionally doing bad things. I think a better word is “hurtful.” The poster is not trying to be impolite or make anyone feel bad, but it hurts nonetheless.
I am okay with calling it “unintentionally rude,” though.
I see where you’re coming from, but I will disagree on someone unintentionally being a jerk is still being a jerk in that moment. It’s an actual reflection on their character with how they react to being corrected, though.
I’m a trans guy, and like, no offense to everyone defending this person but. I’m not super impressed that you guys are more up in arms over calling someone’s rude behavior rude than about respecting trans people.
Just another day, though. :/
Seriously? I say “please dont call Joss a HE” and calmly say it’s pretty rude, because (incredibly) misgendering a trans person is… rude…? it doesn’t matter if it’s an innocent mistake. It’s still a mistake.
I even said please. Saying rude behavior is rude is not somehow worse than you coming along and completely destroying your own point by doing the exact same thing, but with some sort of mistaken guise of “it’s okay cus I’m probably the epiphany of logic and reason!”
Dude. Come on.
It wouldn’t completely destroy my point even if I was doing the exact same thing. It’s possible to be a hypocrite and still be right.
And I wasn’t doing the exact same thing. I was replying to one kind of post, you were replying to another.
It does matter if it was an innocent mistake or not. (And if you’re saying it wasn’t, then the question is: What was zmm supposed to do that they didn’t, before writing the comment they wrote?) If it was not just a mistake, but an innocent one, then this conversation isn’t about respecting trans people – disrespect would be if the mistake was not innocent but negligent, or if zmm read your reply and kept using “he” anyway – but about you humiliating somebody else.
Are you really throwing around the word humiliating? This is unreal. Politely correcting someone about pronouns and letting them know (also politely) that what they did was rude is not humiliation.
Just goes to show you cis people will always prioritize their easily hurt feelings over trans respect. Incredible.
Saying you were polite over and over again doesn’t mean you were polite.
“Just goes to show you cis people will always prioritize their easily hurt feelings over trans respect.” No it doesn’t (and for all you or I know, zmm is trans), but this sentence does show that you hate cis people.
So you may truly just be someone who rarely comes to the comments and hasn’t lately, and maybe you missed it. But “josh” is jocelyn and is a lady. she her pronouns, please.
As a North Carolinian resident, I have definitely felt Joyce’s anger of late. Only more like wanting to punch an entire state.
Honestly, like, this shit is so fucking frustrating on several levels, as you can’t physically DO anything to these people for holding bigoted beliefs, but you can’t help but feel viscerally angry at them and want to hurt them for hurting you so deeply. My empathy levels are through the roof, I’m ready to fight some fictional characters for being shitty human beings all around. At least Joyce (hopefully with Becky in tow) will get a chance to go back to college shortly, and get to a relatively safe space where gays aren’t considered monsters and men who point guns at other people are pretty much seen as the dangerous assholes they are.
So, all that being said: YAAAAY JOCELYNE MIGHT COME OUT TO HER SISTER OR AT LEAST REVEAL HERSELF AS A VALUABLE ALLY YESSSSSS
PS: to everyone using he pronouns for Jocelyne, just because she is closeted it is not okay to misgender her. She is female and should be referred to as such.
I’m guessing some of them may be unaware of who Jocelyne is, and based on context and her being called ‘Josh’ and presenting male, it’s an easy mistake to make.
I’d totally forgotten about the reveal, and only remembered by skimming the comments lately.
well, truth be told Joss has not stated any preferred pronouns… Joss could prefer “they”, “he” while closeted, or “sie/xe/xie/ze” for all we know
See alt text here:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/04-just-hangin-out-with-my-family/writer/
While I would love to see a non-binary character show up, Jocelyne is pretty firmly a trans girl.
For all we know some already have shown up, and just aren’t in the foreground enough for it to come up, especially if it’s not a huge deal to them.
Also Word of Willis in the comments of the page you linked:
“Jocelyne identifies as female.”
I identify as female but have slipped into male mindset so often I forget I’m not… meaning if you specifically ask me, I’d say female, but if I forget, male.
and nothing says a woman can’t prefer “they” anyway
Especially since she is a fictional character who these communications can never reach, and will never directly affect. If we were all real life acquaintances of her it may be different, but there’s simply no reason for us to deadname her when she is out specifically to us.
I admit I fell into this category once in a different comment section for using s/he because I knew that Jocelyne is a she, but that society still knows her as a ‘he’. Since I was referring to Joyce and Joyce’s point of view at the time- Joyce thinks of her as ‘he’, I was trying to be story-accurate and sensitive at the same time, and I apologize if anyone was offended by my usage. (I don’t even remember what strip that was.)
Seriously. I lost my whole last week just rage crying about that awful pile of shit.
Interesting thing to note as we see more ticking time bomb Jocelyne and Carla strips. Their world is having the same flood of intentionally transphobic laws as ours. So Jocelyne isn’t just having a sister who is showing actual support for queer stuff and may be an ally and dealing with John’s bullshit.
She’s going through the emotions of that at the same time elected state officials are openly debating whether or not she’s inherently a child molester that people need to be protected from and who needs to be barred from bathrooms.
That’s another big reason that Jocelyne and Carla seem to have less patience for assholery than usual.
*offers internet hug*
If it helps at all, CBC up in Canada is pretty firmly on the good side. Heard an interview yesterday with one of NC’s state senators and the reporter gave the guy enough rope to get himself in trouble talking about threats and what not. Then she started asking what the threat actually was.
Hashe there ever been an attack by a Transgender person in a bathroom? And he had to say no. And I am on my phone so can’t detail the full glory but let’s just say she basically systematically took all of his arguments apart to the point he basically threw a tantrum about Canada not having moral fibre in our culture and cut the interview short. I think he was expecting international approval rather than condemnation.
I have a bit of sympathy to women who are surprised by the unexpected presence of someone they perceive as male in a bathroom. More of course for the transpeople who just need the bathroom.
Still, the answer is education, not crazy bans or any such.
Maybe because I lean towards androgynous style myself, but eeeeh. I see what you’re saying and don’t necessarily disagree with it but it leaves a bad taste I have a hard time putting words to.
I think the bad taste is with the assumption that transmisogyny is rooted in ignorance alone? But I am tired because work trip so words are hard today.
Oh no. Not at all. There’s a lot of transmisogyny that goes far beyond ignorance.
It’s just that one little bit that I’ve got sympathy for. Anyone who can’t get past that initial reaction, I’ve got no use for.
Yeah, I get you there.
I am a bit less likely to give benefit of the doubt than most because I’ve been hit with splash from that stuff: As a person with an androgynous face and a lot of upper-body strength and a relatively butch sense of personal style, I get mistaken for a dude not-infrequently and that can be awkward in a restroom. I’ve had people yell at me, shove me, hit me, threaten to strip me, I could go on. And yeah. It’s irritating.
(Though that said I totally get why some mistake me for a dude when I go to the bathroom: because reasons that amount to “I like my body best with well-defined upper body muscle and in masculine clothing” I cultivate an androgynous build and style. So yeah I get why people would think I’m a dude at a glance.)
Don’t forget, the crazy bans didn’t actually specify trans /women/ (although that is who the conversations have mostly been about), so they also require trans men to use the women’s bathroom. Now, take a trans guy that’s been on testosterone for a while. Male hairline, more defined muscles, possibly facial hair and adam’s apple (is it called that in English? Translating literally from a different language here). How bloody uncomfortable and unsafe is that going to make the women in there feel?!
Absolutely. As I said, my sympathy doesn’t go anywhere near those pushing the bans.
(And Adam’s apple is right.)
On Facebook, various people posted pictures of various trans men body builders pointing out this aspect of the law.
And while everyone’s been focusing on that aspect, usually by passing along the James Sheffield pic, few have been noting the genuine concerns he and other trans men have that if they try and follow that law, they’ll be subjected to violence as they’ll be perceived as the paranoid fever dream idea of the “scary bathroom invader” that their governor warned them about.
And that’s especially scary when you note that NC is an open-carry state:
http://www.inquisitr.com/2930176/this-man-is-legally-required-to-use-the-womans-restroom/
This law and its copycats are going to lead to a much more dangerous bathroom situation all around the country for both trans folks and gender non-conforming folks.
Jocelyne! I kinda hope that she can come out to Joyce, tbh. Joyce always wanted a sister, after all, and she’s met Carla. I think. And God, I hope Josh doesn’t out her, if he knows.
Carla became one of my top three characters very quickly. I really hope Joyce gets super excited about having a sister
Carla is pure awesome indeed, but I’m not 100% sure Joyce recognizes the trans aspect of Carla, so her “having met Carla” could be a moot point.
See: when Becky first showed up, and Joyce was showing her around, and they passed Carla in the hall, and Joyce finished describing her by saying “and she gets a room all to herself for some reason”.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-5/01-when-somebody-loved-me/introductions/
I had reservations about wanting to see today’s page. I’m glad we got a mini-breather between the awful.
I’m just glad Davis didn’t cut away to some other story again. Not that I’m complaining.
SPOILERS
According to the preview panels, we’ve got at least one more strip here with Jocelyne. Then we’re back at school by Tuesday.
It looks like they don’t get home to the Brown’s house til the middle of May and it’s the end of June before Church on Sunday.
David Willis -> Davis ???
I think Jocelyne is gonna come out to Joyce! 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀
Jocelyne, yay!
The Willis giveth and the Willis taketh away. Mainly taketh. But then when the giveth shows up our hearts all grow three sizes
Forgive me if I’ve asked this before but, I just realized something.
I don’t understand sexuality+transgender. Correct me if I’m wrong: A gay Transman would date men? A straight transwoman would date men? Are gay transwomen, if the prior two questions are correct, lesbians?
You’re on the nose. Trans women are women and trans men are men, so same exact dealio as with cis people.
Pretty much. I’m not sure how sexual orientation is distributed among trans folks — if I remember the Wikipedia article I looked at right, there’s very little solid data, but there’s nothing like the 90%+ straight rate you get with cis folks.
CONTENT WARNING: TRANSPHOBIA
It’s sort of all over the place and our chances of getting good numbers has been fucked over by years of asshole gatekeepers displacing weird sexuality expectations on trans people for decades* as well as demanding that trans people disappear into stealth mode at the “end” of transition**.
Not to mention that marginalized groups tend in general to be overpopulated by the most marginalized folks because they are the ones who end up doing a lot of the heavy lifting to make it safe enough for more normative folks to come out and recognize that identity within themselves.
* So for the longest time, trans people were forced to undergo a series of truly dehumanizing hoops that were designed by an awful cis fuck named Harry Benjamin. And these hoops became the only means of accessing things like surgeries and hormones. Basically, you had to have a strong binary gender, be stereotypically masculine or feminine in accordance with your gender, spend a year or two “living as your preferred gender” with no social protections and no hormones, including being out at your job and on the street, and promise to cast away all your friends and family members at the end of treatment.
It was also heavily based in how much the straight white cis men giving the tests wanted to bone you if you were a trans woman or how little they wanted to bone you if you were a trans man. All of it was designed to be as rough and brutal and unscientific as possible in order to “decrease the number of true transsexuals” from those “who simply think this fad is trendy”.
A big part of it was what he called “Sexual Orientation Scale”, where you were either very much into men (if you were a woman) or very much into women (if you were a guy) or else you were deemed to be a fetishist who was just so obsessed with penises or vaginas that you would be willing to undergo unnecessary surgery just to fulfill your unnatural cravings.
Oh, and the whole thing misgenders the trans people the whole time, labeling straight trans women as “true transsexual homosexuals” who are secretly just femme boys who will find better sex with guys once they get their surgeries and gay trans women as “autogynephile straight men” who have no need to transition as “they are already straight” and “enjoy the benefits of such social approval”.
** The other major part was a requirement to go stealth at the end of this process. So if you jumped through all the hoops to get hormones and surgery, you were then literally ordered by doctors to move to a new town, make a fake background, make new friends, and begin your whole life from scratch, never mentioning your “condition” to anyone.
As such, we have a whole generation of trans voices that are simply unfindable and absent because they followed this to the letter and dropped off the map. Sometimes they show up again, like say when they invent a new golf club and an ignorant sports writer starts wondering why they have a made-up background for themselves.
This however also makes it hard to figure how many gay or straight or bi transfolk there are, because a lot of the voices that broke that silence are gay or bi transfolk, and non-binary folk protesting against these stupid creepy rules.
Luckily this system is being dismantled at the moment and new systems based in actual science are taking their place, but there’s still a number of the old creepy doctors whining about how unfair it is that trans people are not “grateful” for their “years of service to their community”.
I knew a lot of this. I also didn’t know a lot of this. The parts I didn’t know were even worse than the parts I already did, and now I’m just…ugh.
The silver lining is that whole system is being burned down like the toxic vines they are and we’re already seeing the benefits in the last decade or so of increasing trans activism and visibility.
it is getting better, but it’s still pretty discouraging if you have non standard dysphoria or are nb and unwilling to lie about that.
like, i have surgeries i want done, but to get them i’d probably 1) have to present myself as a trans dude, which feels extremely wrong, and 2) have to take testosterone, which i do not want.
but i’m still glad it’s getting better.
Not all health care systems require you to take testosterone to get surgery, and if you can find a good doctor to talk to about it chances are you could get them without presenting as a trans dude or at the very least without taking testosterone. There are ways to get what you want and people who will help you, although they can be difficult to track down and there will likely be quite a bit of trial and error and disappointment involved.
It won’t help with bottom surgery (except for maayyyybe a partial hysterectomy without oophorectomy), but it’s totally a doable thing for top surgery (thank god). I’m still in insurance hell, but I know my insurance can’t deny me for not being on T because that’s in their policies, but who knows they might still try if they get whiff of me being nonbinary. But I’ve found a therapist that’s supportive and a surgeon that’s willing to operate, so I’m feeling pretty hopeful right now. While I’m in the US, I also know nb people in the UK who were able to get top surgery while being nb and not on T. I can’t help if you’re not in either of those places tho…
huh, that’s pretty helpful. thanks!
might i ask what insurance you have, by the way? i’m going to be living on my own maybe a year from now and that means finding my own insurance.
Your longer posts are always worth the read. I learned a lot from this, thank you.
Wow, that’s horrendous and I’m ashamed to say I knew hardly any of this. thanks for posting this and it’s great to know things getting better, even if very slowly.
I knew of all of this except the forced stealthing, which is just…ugh.
Yeah that was an unpleasant surprise.
Wow…. I didn’t know *any* of that. I guess it’s not exactly what they’re gonna teach you in school, huh? That’s… that’s just heartbreaking. 🙁 I’m glad to know though — thank you for sharing.
holy shit
Yes. A trans woman is a woman and a trans man is a man.
So a gay trans man would date what gay men date, which is men. And a straight trans woman would date what straight women date, which is men. And a gay trans woman would date what lesbian women date, which is women.
Hope this helps.
of course, stuff gets complicated for us nonbinary folks. most of my nb friends and i just say we’re gay, regardless of who we’re attracted to.
Same.
Yeah, the terms for nb and nb-inclusive sexuality is nigh non-existent which really sucks.
And as you note in your earlier post, nb access stuff still has major pitfalls before it and even in cool non-gatekeeper places, the structures can often fail to fully understand nb needs and thus end up pushing towards binary pathways because that’s treated as the default for trans healthcare.
And one of the most infuriating for me even though I’m binary myself has got to be that there’s no means of changing legal gender marker to any form of nb identity at the moment and little momentum behind changing that, even in the more liberal states and countries.
This all is why I haven’t even told my doctor. We do have NB inclusive spaces in the next real city, but it’s hard to get to any from here. Hell, it’s hard enough coming out to real people, if you’re not doing much other than changing pronouns
So, YES, all of this, arghhhh (and I seriously dislike all the proposed words like “skoliosexual” and “gynosexual” — can we not, especially with the shitty Benjamin standard stuff that is still not gone away)
BUT ALSO!! There are a precious few (two??) people changing to a legal gender marker other than M or F! According to the awesome (and entirely-volunteer) Intersex and Gender Queer Recognition Project, someone in Ohio successfully changed birth certificate marker to the H-word for intersex folks. Right now there’s a legal battle in Colorado over an nb marker on a driver’s license. And IGRP is fighting for California’s DMV to create an nb marker!
(I sent them a message and never heard back, which I understand…and I should probably try the Trans Law Center again… but currently I’m at “goddammit I’ve transitioned every way I want except for Frickin Marker Crap.” Also I should be pestering insurance to stop pretending they don’t know about my gender and physical organ status, but spooooons.)
Oh um, @Vivid and anyone else, I’m super happy to talk about nb transition stuff. I’ve a tumblr at blockers-and-ectomies about, well, those things. Also check out the awesome new wiki, Mad Gender Science:
https://madgenderscience.miraheze.org/wiki/Main_Page
As a Greek student, these terms baffle me because I can understand the etymology, and it makes no sense. Gynosexual? That means “attracted to women”, which is ridiculously vague.
That IS exactly what “gynosexual” means. The point being to have a term covering all people who are mainly attracted to women, regardless of whether they themselves are male, female, cisgender, transgender or non-binary. “Androsexual” is the equivalent for “attracted to men.”
They’re useful terms for people whose gender is non-binary or has changed over time. It also feels to me like an attack on using “homosexual” as the marked category. Bundle lesbians, straight men and other gynosexuals together in one group, and they’re all just regular people who happen to fancy women.
The other problem with those terms is that they can seem to over-value genitals (especially the gynosexual term), which is problematic on the fact of it. And there’s not really terms for things like being into women and nb folk, but not men.
Well, my rule of thumb is that I call people what they want to be called. But my problem with that term is EXACTLY that it bundles lesbians, straight men and everyone else that likes women in an incredibly large category. I like words to have a clear meaning and convey a message. Otherwise I prefer using complete, descriptive phrases.
If somebody over the internet tells me they’re gynosexual, I’m going to call them that, but I’m also going to have to ask them a lot more question if I want to understand what that means, specifically, for them. Which gender, if any, do they identify themselves as? How does their gender identity and sexuality correlate? etc. etc.
I’m not against creating new words to describe new concepts (heck, before the start of this year I didn’t even realize “non-binary” was an option on the gender spectrum), but if they’re this vague, they aren’t really useful.
Yeah, the IGRP is pretty awesome and I really hope nb markers that aren’t the h-term become the law of the land.
Also, *hugs*, fighting insurances is the worst.
Yeeeep. Even if I come out as enby to anyone in meatspace, I’m just . . . where do I even begin? Who do I talk to? What does transition even look like? Is there even a system in place for me?
It’s confusing and weird and not fun to think about.
For folks with this exact question, I heartily recommend the nonbinaryresource tumblr. It’s what nb friends of mine encouraged me to pass along to my nonbinary students and it seems to have helped them a bunch:
http://nonbinaryresource.tumblr.com/post/100702852621/nonbinary-resources
Thanks! I’mma read these.
Double same!
Yes that helps, my brain’s still trying to wrap itself around transitioning but that’s definitely a lesson for another strip.
When strips like this happen, I end up going on the site the next night and refreshing away because seriously I need to know what happens next
“Can I borrow ten dollers.” Bahaha We love you Becky.
BECKY used DEFLECT
It’s not very effective…
To quote half the other comments that I haven’t bothered reading yet because I need to say this NOW: “FUCK YEAH JOCELYNE YOU FANTASTIC SISTER!”
So many yays inside my heart.
Okay so confession, for some reason my brain had switched Jocelyne and John, and I thought that John was Jocelyne. I’m really super glad that my dumb brain was wrong because I was like “Holy shit…. I’ve heard of internalized Homophobia/Transphobia before but this is just new epic scales of fuckery”
So glad he’s not Jocelyne, I was really worried. I know a thing or two about what years in the closet can do to you if you suppress hard enough.
That being said: Jocelyne came back! I LOVE IT!
Oh, wow. I can’t believe how differently you were perceiving the comic, then! If there was any reason to have sympathy for John, that would be one.
Oh yeah I was like super disappointed and angry. But at the same time I’ve met other trans people (being trans myself) that are sort of like John. And all you can really be is partially super angry at those people, and partially really sad for them.
But, completely throwing a “John isn’t Jocelyn!” party over here.
i wanted my next piece of doa fanart to be joss, one of my favs, but i also really needed a hug between the sisters, and so: http://sayahomu.tumblr.com/post/142337000314/please-let-these-girls-be-happy
That’s awesome! Thank you!
Whoa, that’s great!
I love this brushwork!
i used clip studio paint for this one. very nice brushes!
aaaaaa this is lovely and is also giving me “the three worst girls since Eve” feelings (We Know The Devil, very related in content) and I want a crossover SO BAD.
that was not intentional, but possibly a subconscious thing since i’ve been really i’ve been really into wktd lately
hnng so pretty
All the hugs. This make me so happy!
Oh Joss, you are the awesomest woman ever.
Joselyn has totally been my favorite character these past few strips! 🙂 She may even have surpassed my love for Dorothy and Joyce.
Joyce, just because there are ‘worse’ families doesn’t mean you can’t complain about your mother, eldest brother- and heck father to a certain extent even if he’s better then /them/. I mean yeah, you have to be acutely aware a major reason you’re upset is for Becky’s sake but you had a gun pointed at yourself too- and the fact is people like your mother and eldest brother helped create the culture where Toedad felt he could do that.
Fundamentalist christianity is often bangs on and on about how general culture can corrupt a person and well… they’re not completely wrong actually- it’s just usually /their/ culture which is the most morally corrupting in your country. Because they are taught they are in the moral right in the face of the corrupting secular darkness. That they are warriors. That they are heroes. That they are (snerk) ‘oppressed’ for their views and people who see they as awful are wrong.
If people like John and Carol did not exist- people like Toedad would be far less likely to exist. The ‘smaller’ things- the microaggressions are often the foundation for the larger as they create a culture where certain minorities of people are seen as less as people, are seen as not as good as other people. So it’s seen as more acceptable to threaten their lives, or the lives of their allies. Or even desirable. After all they should know there are ‘consequences’. For existing. For defying the lord.
Small things can a culture make- and they build into the larger.
But honestly making excuses for people who try to kill you, or trying to say you shouldn’t sound so angry about it is hardly ‘small’ in any case.
Bang on, yeah.
Ehhhh, assholes are assholes no matter what reality they live in. Fundamentalist Christianity doesn’t exist in large portions of the world and instead has been replaced by militant Confuscianism, Communists, and various other religions which have historically all produced moral jackasses who hurt other people for their own good. Legalists were so bad they’re still a term in China.
I don’t see any sign that Heather would disagree. Just because Christian Fundamentalism is one of the most dangerous belief systems in the U.S. doesn’t mean there aren’t others.
And there are various degrees of fundamentalism, and some that actually handle the LGBT thing better, even if they still think it is a sin. I don’t really think there is a moderate KKK member, for example.
“Economic legalism is a term to describe the marriage of legalism and economic theory.”
Woo, scary…
Oh thank fuck were 2 for 4 on Brown’s that I don’t want to choke to death.
This is where I remember they basically stole their parent’s car for a ride, which is certainly bound to not make anything a lot better when they finally meet back ^^;
No, Joyce, your family is terrible for other reasons and you have every right to complain about them even if Becky’s is terrible for another reason.
So happy to see Jocelyne in this strip. I love the snark in the previous one, especially since once again, the church isn’t so “good” with the whole skimming off the top money wise.
I don’t expect Jocelyne to come out to Joyce (she would need to be safe and content for starters, nor does she have to do so with her true identity) but god I’m hoping the sisters can be sisters together at some point. I think it would help the both of them in the long run.
Also I laughed really hard at the alt text and also hope THAT happens somewhere.
Relevant to ‘but is Becky going to be okay with trans people?’
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/04-walking-with-dina/item/
They were learning together and Dina specifically said ‘expression’ rather than just ‘gender.’ I think that alludes to them having learned something about various trans identities, whether or not Becky totally gets it
I think both Becky and Joyce will be supportive of Jocelyne whenever she comes out to them, although there will probably be a little cognitive dissonance for both of them. There’ll probably be a few faux pas from both of them as they learn more of the language surrounding gender identity, but I don’t think either of them will screw as badly as Joyce did after Ethan first came out to her.
I think that the whole concept of transsexualism will baffle them both at first. Unless it’s been mentioned in the Gender Studies class at IU, it’s likely that neither of them will have encountered this before.
Since Gender studies class seems to act as our “convenient news broadcast relevant to the plot” I think Jocelyne will come out and then oh look Leslie is doing a discussion on transsexualism.
Preach it sister! TESTIFY!
I am so glad to see Joss come back into the restaurant! <3 More Joss time and getting to see her being a big sister yayyy.
(Also I am so happy Willis called her Joss, because that's what I've mentally called her for ages. I do think it's odd she stuck with the J theme though, since she doesn't seem to be too thrilled with her family overall?)
In a Patreon strip it was revealed that Jocelyne chose the name for herself as a little kid and her parents misinterpreted it as a suggestion for naming Joyce, which they ended up adapting and shortening. So apparently, it’s the thing she’s been mentally calling herself most of her life.
I have a feeling the fight with John was only Round 1.
If he calls The Brown momma about it it probably won’t be pretty.
They may have Carol…
But we have AmaziGirl.
Dunno what she can… HOLY CARP, I’LL BE GOOD, AMAZIGIRL!!!
I feel like the reason for jocylyn’s reappearance is “I have a car and you annoyed me verbally (by being right), so I am not going to share my car with you, regardless of how much trouble this causes you” from John.
ps WHY DO ALL THEIR NAMES START WITH J I AM NOT ABLE TO DIFFERENTIATE THEM UNLESS I REALLY TRY
I’m getting a Fargo-esque vibe off of this trip to La porte. Minus the extreme violence of course.
The Coen brothers were brought up in a small town, and Fargo (the film) was seen by some as their “revenge” on their small town upbringing. A catharsis, if you will.
Good to see Jocelyne re-appear. I feel a schism in the Brown family coming on. I wonder which side Hank will support? Will he continue to support his wife? What does he feel about his eldest? Or Jocelyne?
Did you not SEE the woodchipper behind John’s car in the last strip? He’s gone.
I really feel sorry for Becky here. She’s desperately trying to help Joyce but she doesn’t know how. Her only card to play is “Happy-go-lucky goof” and it just isn’t working with Joyce this time. I’m pretty sure if Jocelyne hadn’t turned up when she did, both girls would have ended up crying.
As for Jocelyne…? I’m wondering if she’s going to counsel survival politics – To pretend what they’re not, at least in the Brown family’s presence, simply because it isn’t safe to do anything else. It would be interesting if Joyce and Becky refuse to do so and it is their stubborn refusal to project an illusion of being good little girls for the sake of familial peace that convinces Jocelyne to come out.
This.
But honestly? I think both girls could benefit from a good breakdown and cry. They’ve both been through traumatic stuff and they’ve both handled it by locking up their emotions and trying to soldier on.
A good sob session about how scary and painful it all was and how scared each was thinking they’d never see the other, could help with that a bit.
Do bitter tears go well with chicken fingers?
Both of them are doing that thing where you shut down processing your emotions or even being conscious of them until crisis time is over.
Except they’re just bouncing from crisis to crisis and I don’t think either of them knows that the longer they kick that can down the road, the harder it will be to deal with.
But Joyce acknowledged her anger, which is a start.
The longer you spend kicking that can down the road the more dented and mangled it’s gonna be when you finally decide to deal with it.
But sometimes dealing with it right now isn’t safe.
It’s great that Joyce is letting her anger out, though that’s not something she’s ever really had a problem with. Bundling it up until she and Becky are safely back at college where they’re not under constant threat would be a much better idea. The more she fights back now, the more likely she is to get pulled from school.
Yep. It is a really nasty catch-22.
Yup. Finding that one out the hard way. It’s super fun.
Good on you for taking a stand, Jocelyne. 🙂 Although I’ll grant it’s just as likely John simply kicked you out of his car and left you to find your own way back. But kudos on standing up to him regardless.
Sneaks into the booth to cue up Girls Just Want To Have Fun.
Appropriate song is appropriate.
Yeah! Some jokester’s been playing What’s New Pussycat on the jukebox for the past 40 minutes.
(‘^’)
what
Hey relax, It’s Not Unusual will start eventually.
YAY JOCELYN!!!!!!
shucks, I forgot the e at the end.
Also, Joyce’s mentality is really, really familiar. “Hey, my family sucks and all, but at least they kind of accept me as trans even though they don’t support me in my transition, and they don’t throw me out in the streets so”
Oh, they don’t accept her as trans. They don’t even know she’s trans.
Teddae is referring to their own family though, not Jocelyne, here.
Whoops, my bad.
Do we have any in-Dumbiverse evidence that John’s full name is Jonathan? Maybe it’s not that he doesn’t know how to spell ‘Jon’, but rather that John is in fact his full first name.
He was first introduced as “Jonathan”.
I just want him to stop using my name if he’s going to go around being a dickwaffle like this.
…could by worse, there is another commentator with the name Ryan…
I don’t think even Ryan got four thousand comments worth of vitriol dumped on him in four days. Which is really disconcerting when they’re all tagged with your name, let me tell you.
Just goes to show what a jerk Jonathan is, using your name to be a jerk with.
Well maybe you should have thought of that before…
before…
Just listen to yourself, John!
You sound so angry.
So bitter.
I say, as a Jonathan that goes by Jon (because I’m not important enough for three syllables, k), he should go the full name route. Maybe even the middle initial. He’s certainly smug enough.
Ah, there it is. Thanks! 🙂
Am I the only one who noticed that Joyce was talking in an Amazi-Girl speech bubble in panel 1? I wonder if that fan-drawn joke costumed adventurer design we saw a long time ago might actually be close to reality?
I can see Joyce talking to Amazi-Girl on the roof of the dorms. “I don’t know what to do,” she tells the heroine. “How do I carry on when all I feel is sadness and hate?”
“You hide it away from the world,” Amazi-Girl replies. “Behind this…” and she hands Joyce an orange mask like her own.
Nah, the Amazi-Girl voice is white on dark blue. Joyce is white on black here. It’s not the first time she’s spoken in reverse video.
Another that’s more in line with this one.
Aw, Joyce has come such a long way. From, “I hate homosexuality and lying,” to, “I will punch an entire city for my gay bestie,” in three short weeks!
Where will she be in three months, then?
Besides 2031 AD, I mean.
That’s when we get the story where Walky’s parents are disappointed in him for getting cyber augmented.
He had to do that, it was the only way he could defeat Dark Amazi-Girl’s cyberspace avatar!
So I’m not sure if this is an example of Jocelyne taking a level in badass and leaving John to hang with his little sister or John taking a level in asshole and leaving Jocelyne behind for that crack about his car. Hoping for the former.
YEAH i thought about that possibility (him leaving her). I sure hope it’s not thqt, for many reasons.
Yaaaaaaaaaaay!
Complain about the car-bought-with-tithe-skimming, don’t get a ride in the car-bought-with-tithe-skimming.
Those are the rules in GOD’S house.
I mean… GOD’S car.
It is a preaching machine.
So… Akio’s car ?
(kudo to those who’ll get the ref)
heeheeheeheehee
How weird. Just after reading all that stuff above about names… I don’t think I’ve really come across my name being used much before. Pretty interesting looking car, though.
NEVER take a ride in the akio car
I was thinking that car ride was going to be a little awkward, and lo! Turns out it didn’t happen.
Hurray supportive family member!
*COUGH COUGH* HIS MOMS AN ASSHOLE *COUGH COUGH*
her*
They’re gonna be there for literally hours.
Everyone in the comments section:
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSWsfVJUN4EuHY_rHcdj44e-d9yUkwGDl9389L6z-EYfL8zCWn0QQ
It’s interesting to note that most of Joyce’s family (Jocelyne and Joyce’s dad excluded) doesn’t accept Becky for being a homosexual girl rather than (what they believed to be) a heterosexual one, and they also don’t accept Joyce for being a questioning girl rather than (what they believed to be) a dogmatic one.
I’m grateful to Willis for writing characters like Joyce’s dad and Jocelyne though; it’s nice to see sensible people to counterbalance John’s massively hypocritical dickery.
[screech of joy] Willis hath bestowed a blessing.
Also, poor Joyce. I know that I-can’t-complain feel. You have every right to complain, bae. It alright.
JOSS TO THE RESCUE
So, you are not gonna finish those chicken fingers?
Cue the ‘I love everyone in this bar!’ gif. Love these three ladies :3
love jocelyne!
wait, my icon probably made that clear. oh well. she’s my favorite!
You have an awesome icon
That’s a great drawing! Did you do that yourself?
Thank you, it is my art yes!
And this is why it was good that Becky came along. And now +1Jocelyne!
I like Jocelyne.
I like comments like yours.
OMG! Finally! O_O I can’t wait for this storyline to unfold! 😀
Jocelyn comes through!
Jocelyne. My spelling sucks. 🙁
To be fair, a lot of people missed that last ‘e’ the last couple of days.
At least you didn’t spell it Joycelyn.
Yeah. At least Jocelyn is a real name.
I’m looking forward to the Joycelyn gem fusion.
YAAAAAY!
(I’m not still going to find someone ragging on Jocelyne in the comments section now, am I?)
Too late. Somebody’s already upset that she walked outside with John for like half a minute before coming back.
Imo she walked outside to defend them in a less risky situation.
YESSSSSSS JOCELYNE 😀 😀 😀
Best possible thing that could happen…
Joyce and John are going to fight to the death, however Joycelyne steps out and goes “no, John I am your opponent!”
Willis, can I take a moment to thank you for portraying Joyce as a woman with anger management issues WITHOUT that side of her being a cheap joke or the excuse to portray her as some irredeemable evil?
Cuz as a woman in my late 20s with the same impulses, it matters. A lot.
Tell me about it. The massive amounts of cringe I feel whenever someone describes Amber as this horrible remorseless violent shithead because she almost swore at someone one time could generate enough power for half of North America.
I disagree about Amber. Calling someone a piece of shit isn’t just swearing, and in the contex
I literally only touched my keyboard but that sent somehow.
Context of a relationship (including friendly and familial), I also consider it abusive- not to mention that panel was comparing her to Blaine.
To clarify I don’t think she’s horrible or remorseless or even altogether a mean or bad person, but I think there us a reason people reacted very strongly to that instance of anger.
It was abusive. That’s why she freaked the fuck out and started talking about how she’s stupid and worthless and refused to allow her boyfriend to brush it aside. That’s what happens when you have massive amounts of anger issues and a guilt complex that tears into you whenever you express that anger.
Maybe, but it seems like the more important thing to me is the fact that she recognized and worked to stop it – rather than just blowing ahead and using “I was angry” as an excuse later. If anything she’s maybe *too* hard on herself.
… Also maybe when a commenter is indicating they have similar issues and feel bad / targeted when people bash on them (the character), isn’t the best time to decide to bash on that particular issue? Just sayin…
Further comments loaded after I got mine in, so… nevermind. >.>
I mean, I think it is okay to go “wtf amber” at that, because it was abusive of Amber to lash out at Danny the way she did, but I do think it’s unfair when it’s used as this indicator that she’s, like, this barely contained ball of violence that’s just itching to tear everyone’s throats out, and who needs to be sectioned off from her loved ones until she stops being such an obviously shit person.
And, yeah, Amber is someone I deeply relate to when it comes to her dealing with her anger, especially because I know that sometimes it just boils to a point where it can’t stop and you just feel completely fucking broken after, so it is kinda annoying to see so much “how dare this girl with a mental disorder who grew up in a viciously abusive home ever step out of line.”
Yaaas this.
I like Amber. I do. I do think she takes after Blaine a bit too much just like I take after my dad a bit too much. I appreciate that she does her best to control it. I appreciate that her struggle is not portrayed as some tired “cycle of abuse” stereotype (because the issues that Amber deals with, being terrified of becoming her dad? how much easier do you think it’d be for her to admit she has a problem in that respect without everyone and their dog jumping on it as proof that she’s irreparably damaged and destined to become an abuser?). I have a soft spot for her.
And I think she is abusive at times. And needs to work on it. But that doesn’t mean she’s not one of my favs.
Thing is with that kind of anger: IME, you don’t ‘get over’ it. You learn to live with and not be controlled by it. There’s a difference – it’s a matter of accepting that the angry part of you exists and learning to kind of treat those impulses as a cranky toddler in your head.
“I WANT TO SMASH EVERYTHING IN THE WORLD!”
“Okay, that’s perfectly understandable given the situation, but how about instead of smashing things and getting in trouble, we try to find a constructive solution, okay?”
Or, at least, that’s how I deal with it. Feel it, accept that I’m feeling it, don’t be controlled by it, and move on.
I gasped loudly and clapped my hand over my heart. Awesome, Joce! Joyce really needs to know that someone in her family is with her, and Jocelyne does, too.
Maybe I don’t know how the law works, but if a man was arrested and thrown in jail for assaulting his child, I am pretty sure the child would still be able to get into her house. I’m also pretty sure lawyers exist who would help said child get their shit together.
Source: having read about fundamentalist children suing parents for their documentation.
Yeah, but a lot of those suits actually had to go through the courts. And in a way her not being a minor hurts her here. There are a lot of services and supports that would likely have kicked in, if she hadn’t been a legal adult. Access to a lawyer for this kind of thing would be part of that.
Of course, there are other ways her being an adult certainly lessened Ross’s control over her.
In short, she certainly has a legal right to her documentation and likely to access to the house, at least to get her stuff. Legal rights don’t always matter unless you’ve got lawyers and courts to enforce them. If she tried to go in on her own without legal assistance, she might well wind up in jail. Local cops aren’t likely to be sympathetic. And she’s indigent, so she’ll end up with a public defender she’d met 5 minutes before the plea hearing advising her to take a plea deal so he doesn’t have to defend the infamous lesbian.
Exactly. Lots of this stuff takes a lot of time to get through as a best case scenario. And it’s been, what, a few days at most since it happened? Even if things end up working in her favor, it’ll be a while for anything to get going. and that’s if things work in her favor.
If he’s in jail and she has her house keys or knows where the secret key is hidden in the backyard or anything like that, she could just go inside. He’s not there.
His “throwing her out of the house” isn’t a legally enforceable principle.
True. OTOH, Joyce said a couple days ago “The house is all locked up”, which suggests she doesn’t have a key.
That doesn’t make sense, though. She left home with a few things, I think. She probably didn’t deliberately abandon her keys somewhere. Almost everyone I know takes their keys with them to college or otherwise. Almost every suburban home I know of has a spare key hidden somewhere. Ours was under a rock.
This is a plot contrivance that makes no sense.
YMMV as to what happens if Becky is caught breaking into her family home. Were it the jurisdiction where I have some experience, she’d probably be left alone. Cops have told me that they won’t so much as act to kick someone off real estate (even where the title holder asks them to remove the third party!) if they’re reasonably convinced that the person they’re being asked to kick off “lives there”. Becky would definitely be able to call over a locksmith, or even break in without too much trouble. Especially if she had Joyce there with her to confirm that yes, she does live there.
Yep. Also remember this guy was probably on the news. The police would probably be sympathetic to the girl held at gunpoint by her dad, even if she was gay.
Joss! *eyes well with tears* I’m so proud of you right now, Jocelyn. It does my heart some real good after these past few pages to see someone in the Brown family who really takes back the good nature ruined by so many of the others.
Hank isn’t that bad, he seems a little more open to new things-so I’d like to say, at this point, that Joss takes after her dad more than her mom. Fortunately.
Meet my new favorite character! Or, well, welcome to the top 5, at least, Jocelyn. (At the top.)
…I see three women who all need hugs and a shitton of chocolate.
I actually shrieked with joy at seeing Jocelyn return.
YEAH! Hope is kindled.
Sisters is probably the most competitive relationship within the family, but once the sisters are grown, it becomes the strongest relationship.
drunk
Dangit. It was supposed to search, not post. Please ignore. Or, make fun of the old guy. Either way’s fine.
Can’t make fun, because this post was way too funny. <3
Get offa your lawn? What?
Apparently. >_>
Joyce Brown naked
Dammit dammit dammit
:/
IT GOT BETTER LOL
If Jocc does come out to Joyce and Becky, is there any chance of high fives? Someone discussed the other day how straight friends don’t HF gay friends when they come out.
Clarification: Jocelyne is not gay, she told Ethan herself, but high five Becky for COMING OUT AS A LESBIAN!! (Actually, I can’t imagine NOT high fiving Becks if she TOLD you.) But folks here have been speculating if either Joyce or Becky would be able to cope/accept instantly, let alone congratulate/celebrate.
YESS MOMENT IVE BEEN WAITING FOR????
😀
BTW I’ve been taking it that its NOT about cogratulating someone for being gay/trans/… but for feeling that they can come out and live as who they are with and/or amongst whoever they come out to, whether one person or everyone, as another human being among human beings (IDIC). Their Re-Birthday, so to speak — is that a thing? — vs their original Day-of-Assinments-at-Birth.
Or, given what I’ve been learning of life in the closet, it seems like being able to finally break cover after years of trying to survive behind enemy lines/occupation. Surviving that till Liberation Day seems something to celebrate/congratulate folks on. (Though I’m sure there are reasons that I don’t know for sometimes, someplace being sober and subdued.)
So, high fives to everyone here for their RE-Birthday/Liberation Day, past, present, or future!!!
(Unless I’ve misinterpreted this issue as I have others here, in which case, ‘never mind’?)
Please tell me Joyce is about to hear something that’s going to make her happy. It’s kinda rough seeing angry Joyce, sad Joyce, and rabid Joyce.
I think it’ll be both. Like, she’s going to be even more angry when she hears Joss’ rants (even if they keep away from gender and sexuality), but also she will be relieved and happy to have someone to commiserate with, and will probably feel more validated than ever when it’s someone who’s not an outsider.
I’m really worried that Jocelyne is going to get slapped in the face with rejection here. Becky already scoffed at the idea of bisexual people being a thing, and Joyce has just recently come to accept homosexuality as okay. A lot of the prejudice that transpeople face comes from queer people whom you’d think would accept us with open arms.
I’m not holding my breath that they get it, but I don’t think they’re going to reject Joss. I feel like they’d make an effort to understand for her.
And, yeah, rejection from within the Queer community stings a whole fucking lot. You’d think of all people we’d understand.
On a tangential note, I would like to see Becky’s bi-erasure come up again, even though she seems to get that “liking both” is a thing after her chat with Sierra in that patreon strip. I think it’d be a really cool way to explore erasure from within the Queer community.
She also acknowledged that “liking both” is a thing in the strip where Dina mentioned that she wasn’t sure if gender expression mattered to her.
Becky’s learning is happening fast.
Sure, which is why I’m pretty sure it won’t come up again, but much like how I enjoyed seeing Walky and Dorothy’s casual homophobia and Danny and Becky’s casual racism, as well as much deeper showcases of the concept through Sal’s struggles with her parents’ racism motivated neglect, I would like to see more acknowledgement of erasure in fiction from within the Queer community, and I feel that would be interesting to explore through Becky given that she’s already expressed it to a degree.
So far Becky’s been extremely adaptable with regard to new information. She seems to have accepted bisexuality as a concept immediately after it was explained to her, and she’s been eating up Dina’s Biology textbooks despite a lifetime supply of crazy religious stuff.
She’s a good one.
Yaaaaaay, Jocelyne returns!
I hope it’s because she told John “I’m not going with you!” and not because John told her “You’re not going with me!”.
I also hope that this is where Jocelyne informs Joyce that she has a sister.
I wish, but I doubt it
I feel like that could be about to happen.
Willis, please tell me you made a sketch of that hover-text for us. =O
It is heartbreaking that Joyce’s metric for “can I complain about my family?” is based around “Did they actively threaten my life with a firearm?”
I have fallen into this trap too. The “I can’t complain about anything because other people have actual problems and I’m just a whiner” filter
I get the impression Jocelyn has been waiting a LONG time to be able to have a frank conversation with one of her siblings about their family’s bigotry.
So, Joss— What can you tell us about Jordan?
Joyce still needs to learn that – even when you have every right to be angry, even when you’re faced with monstrous injustice – anger is, nevertheless, not a healthy way to feel. Not because it might piss off the people who are messing with you (seriously, who cares what they think?), but because anger itself messes with you. It raises your blood pressure and your heart rate, it makes it hard to think clearly, it drives you to make bad decisions. Look at what happened to the U.S. after 9/11, all because so many of us gave in to fully justified anger.
Feeling anger, and expressing anger are both healthy. Bottling up anger, or denying it outright has a negative effect on your health. Joyce is dealing with her anger, and frustration, in a healthy way. She’s expressing her anger without actually punching everyone in town. The people she was looking to for support have turned their back on her, but she’s finding support from other friends and family. A friend to cry with, a brother to hold on to, and a private place to do a little screaming, will help her work through the pain. Trying to work through this without acknowledging the anger, and expressing it, will only lead to more problems later.
You’re overlooking the option to let the anger go. To unattach from it. To say, “All right, what these people are doing is wrong; what they are saying is wrong; bad things are happening to good people. I can get angry and shout and yell and freak out. Or I can take some deep breaths, calm myself, meditate a bit, until I’m able to think clearly again; and then I’ll have a better chance of thinking of constructive ways to deal with this issue.”
Not easy. Not simple. Not the first thing most people think of. But, when practiced sincerely, often more effective, and almost always more healthy.
I think you are mistaking anger for hysterics.
Cold anger is actually a very good position to think clearly from. You’ve got your priorities down pat, you are not trying to ignore any facts that make you upset, and you have the adrenaline high to brave things you would otherwise be too squamish for (like talking to people if you are shy, etc)
This is the most annoying thing about tone policing. The moment when you get to tell me “maybe you should take deep breaths” is the moment my sentences stop being coherent, and not a second earlier. If I’m talking too loud, say “quieter”, not “calmer”. I can be very not-calm and still quiet and coherent.
Don’t discount what people have to say when they aren’t hiding behind coping mechanisms.