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To be fair my church won at least a few new members when they started offering a gluten free bread option for communion. (Though we’re one of the sects that doesn’t believe that the food literally transforms into the body and blood of Christ, that’s mostly a Catholic and Orthodox thing (and kind of Lutherans)
Yep, Lutherans believe in sacramental union: the real presence of Christ “in, with and under the forms of the bread and wine”. So not that the bread is transformed, but that it is both bread and Christ at the same time in the Eucharist.
Alcohol isn’t a great sanitizer but saliva is also somewhat antiseptic itself, so transferring living stuff from saliva to alcohol back to someone elses’ saliva is a pretty low % event.
Um… I’ll spare the horrific details, but fundamentalist practitioners of a mainstream religion sometimes give male babies herpes with their mouths while performing one of their rituals exactly as prescribed by the sect. Sometimes babies die from this.
(Christian Scientist kids die for their parents’ beliefs too, and so do the children of anti-vaxxers, so I’m not trying to pick on one (or even any) religion. But this is the one that’s caused by contaminated saliva.)
Low % doesn’t mean impossible…it just means you have to have something really nasty that can survive the saliva, the metal cup and the wine. Which…usually you know if you have something really nasty.
If you know and you don’t care, that’s a totally different, awful problem.
Eh, at my family’s Catholic church, the protest would wipe the edge of the cup with a sanitizing wipe and turn it slightly between people, so by the time a person’s lips actually touch the same part as someone who had been before them, it was basically clean. So alcoholics sanitization properties a moot point, anyway.
My family’s Anglican church did that as well. Also, the priest said, if the gold or silver of the goblet is pure enough, it’s toxic to most germs, so there’s scientific as well as religious reasons to have high-quality metal.
At my Catholic church, it used to be done that way, but they have now swiched to dipping the host into the wine, then serving the host on the tongue. This completely removes any chance of any germs being passed from one person to the next.
We were trained to do that, too. It’s one of the main cloths that gets folded into the altar every Saturday evening – the purificator. You wipe the rim, then give the goblet a quarter-turn, which is at best a placebo unless your church has only four-eight people in it, but ya know, whatever.
Also, Joyce at an Episcopal church is everything I never knew I wanted, and also giving me pleasant flashbacks of the first time I went into one.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Becky is doing a lot of research on churches these days, hoping to find one that she feels comfortable in and that accepts lesbians.
This reminds me of Maria Burnham’s quest to find a gay-friendly, Jesus-centered church in her new neighborhood. Her take on what appears to be an Episcopalian church: “I thought you said it wasn’t Catholic? It sure feels like it.”
Because when Toedad started talking about pulling becky out of college she researched other churches to see if there was one that would accept her as a lesbian.
ya know, I’m a bit mixed about the idea of churches advertising on their websites or wherever, “YO, we totes serve REAL alcohol for communion!! GF wafers available too!!”
Ha, church websites are notoriously *the worst*. I love my current Episcopalian church, which I discovered through a website called gaychurch.org , but from the church’s website would you have known their beliefs about important issues? Not really. Would you have known that they have gluten-free and alcohol-free eucharist options? You betcha.
I was at Denny’s a few hours ago, looking at the menu and wondering what the big orange “GF” next to some items was for. It only just clicked that it means “gluten free”. Maybe not the wildest of revelations, but I was staring at the letters in confusion for like 15 minutes.
Honestly, and this might just be the Catholic in me, the fact that Joyce is the only one with her hands not folded, when we know she does so in prayer normally, is kind of bugging me.
Which I find ironic as I as an ex-catholic, alwaays thought that catholicism was closer to jesus than evangelism/protestant which was “after” and “a part of” catholicism.
She’s not praying; she’s lurking. There’s different protocols for lurking.
And honestly if I were you I’d be more worried about how she’s shouting at people. Shouting at people, which highly respectful, can be a tad disruptive.
…yeah, I certainly wouldn’t want Carol finding out if I were Joyce. Hank’d be cool with it I feel, because Hank seems to be pretty cool, but he wouldn’t keep this a secret from Carol, and Carol is Carol.
Unfortunately, Episcopalian religious leaders still use Catholic titles (Father, Mother), which weirds me out a bit. So Father_____ might bring to mind other names.
Interesting. Anglican ministers in the UK and Australia don’t. They go by “the Reverend Mr” or “the Reverend Dr” depending on whether they have a doctorate or merely a masters. And informally as “vicar”, “rector”, or “padre”, depending on things. And sometimes they have a higher title: we had an “Archdeacon Tress” here for a while (who had been “a gunner in the First World War and a canon in the Second”, but that’s another story).
Vicar, rector and curate describe slightly different positions in the Anglican / Episcopalian Church. It can escalate quickly.
In the Episcopal Church in the United States of America, the “rector” is the priest elected to head a self-supporting parish. A priest who is appointed by the bishop to head a parish in the absence of a rector is termed a “priest-in-charge”, as is a priest leading a mission (that is, a congregation which is not self-supporting). “Associate priests” are priests hired by the parish to supplement the rector in his or her duties while “assistant priests” are priests resident in the congregation who help on a volunteer basis. The positions of “vicar” and “curate” are not recognized in the canons of the entire church. However, some diocesan canons do define “vicar” as the priest-in-charge of a mission; and “curate” is often used for assistants, being entirely analogous to the English situation
My mum grew up in post-War Britain, and one place the family lived in was called “the Old Rec,” as it had been the Rectory for the local church before it was replaced a few hundred years before.
The Old Rec (which always sounded like “The Old Wreck” to me and may have been used thusly occasionally by the inhabitants) was haunted, so Mum always wanted to sleep with one of the family’s two pekes in the room with her, despite Gran’s wishes to the contrary.
I am not positive, but it may have been that house that had the ghost of a little Victorian girl in the front hallway. I can’t say for sure, though, because Mum lived in several places over there, and most of them (being old) seem to have been haunted, ha ha.
More or less OT, sorry; the reference to rectors made me think of it (the rectories, of course, being the housing the church supplied to its rectors).
Given how religious in character a lot of American patriotism is it’s surprising in a way that kneeling isn’t standard practice for things like the national anthem.
The idea comes from the idea that minorities are supposed to refrain from bringing attention to themselves and the problems they face, so the majority can continue to deny oppression.
Oops. With the bit about being knighted, I couldn’t tell if you were being facetious or if you were simply a confused citizen of a Commonwealth country.
This kind of comment sets itself up for that one joke, which has been told again and again (well, 2 times, as far as I know). I…shall refrain from saying the super-obvious joke. I shall spare you all from the pain. Because I am a merciful person.
I’ve been to two services at my maternal grandparents’ Lutheran church: once when we visited for their 60th anniversary, and a second time a couple of years later at Grandma’s funeral. The funeral, where Grandma’s corpse was in a coffin next to the altar, was the less creepy of the two.
Me too. So, basic guidelines. If no one’s writhing on the floor speaking in tongues, no one’s passing around venemous snakes (refrigerated or otherwise), there’s no sex rituals or ritual nudity, there’s no rules about your underwear, there’s not a lot of bones-and-skeletons-and-death imagery beyond a guy on a cross and maybe some stained glass, no one’s using something like a lie-detector machine or an EKG, and the only drug use is a sip of mildly alcoholic beverage…
… then it’s probably normal by religious standards.
Fun fact: all the churches I’ve had communion at gave you the option between wine and grape juice. Usually it’s white wine and purple juice. Once, a church I went to used red wine and purple juice, but they changed it after they mixed up which cup was which.
Oh I’m still second guessing it, if any mod dosn’t get the over the top sarcasm I was going for, I’m boned. (Which I’m definitely not trying to reinforce with this comment…nope not at all)
I’ve gone my whole life dealing with them (passed down from my mother – who told me it was something else, so I had no idea I was carrying an infectious disease until I was like 25) and yeah, they’re irritating and stupid.
Then again, you could already have the virus and just never get any symptoms. That’s a thing too. Fucking glitter disease indeed.
bitter? o.0 vitamin c doesn’t have to have any bitterness. when I was a kid I had delicious fizzy tablets. I’d let them dissolve on my tongue then; these days that’s a bit too intense so I put them in water like you’re “supposed” to.
There is herpes and there is herpes. Herpes zoster is pretty bad, and when and optic nerve is involved the patient can lose the sight in the affected eye.
A friend ended up with herpes. She and her guy were in a monogamous relationship; used condoms for over a year; and he was her first. They thought he was clean.
Turns out he was an asymptomatic carrier.
She describes it as being like the worst bladder infection you can imagine, then cranked to eleven. :/
Kids, even if you think you’re clean, get everyone involved an STI blood test before ditching the protection, m’kay?
I think that depends on the individual church. If I remember correctly, Joyce and Becky used to go to a non-denominational church, and those all differ from each other.
Anabaptists / Puritan-based groups do. So, if you’re in a “dry county” in America (one where selling alcohol is de-facto illegal as permits are never granted, even to chain grocery stores) odds are that county’s religious majority is Amish, Mennonite, Quaker, Shaker, Baptist, or one of the post-Puritan fragmentation denominations.
The Puritans broke up prior to the 1700s when it became clear that America was never going to be a theocracy; Puritanism, based largely on the teachings of Erasmus, believed that God’s will for the state was to punish sins, and church and state should not be separate. They were also very much about demonic activity happening on Earth *right now*, and many American “demonic possession” scary stories had origins in Puritan mythology. Much of the Religious Right sprung up from churches with Puritan origins, which were often either Presbyterian, Baptist, or non-denominational but evangelical.
“I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. You shall have no other gods before me. I offer you a chance for greatness, Isra-El. Take it! You will bow down before me! No matter that it takes an eternity, you will bow down before me – you, and one day, your heirs!”
It’s not ALWAYS alcoholic, depends on the church. And when it IS alcoholic the proof is usually something infinitesimal, anyway. Every church I’ve taken communion at wipes the chalice after each person drinks, and if you’re sick there’re paper cups in the sacristy, just let the minister know. I’d say you can avoid putting your mouth on the chalice by dunking your communion wafer in the wine (which makes that little tasteless disc actually something worth eating…), but if the church uses bread that could lead to crumbs in the Blood of Christ…
in my anglican school we used to go up to the front- those who were appropriately levelled up in christ took communion, a little wafer that they dipped in the cup and ate, those who weren’t put their hands behind their backs and just got a blessing.
And lots of us just sat cos we were heathen children.
That’s what our Anglican church did as well. And you could take the Confirmation classes at 17, and thereafter partake in Communion, legal drinking age of 19 be damned. This wasn’t, you know, drinking; this was a tiny sip for religious purposes. Doesn’t even give you the slightest buzz, either; and I am a cheap drunk.
depends on the Church. I’m LMS and my home church we just went up and received the Eucharist wafer (or a blessing) while standing at the front of the line, before moving over to the usher with the wine (disposable minicups with wine on the outside grape juice on the inner circle, then the shared cup. You chose which). Current church we kneel in the style presented in comic.
My dad’s church uses a silver cup, which…supposedly has antibacterial properties? I def had to google that just now to make sure I wasn’t misremembering, and I guess it’s true.
Maybe “most socialized” means most likely to obey a leader who’s dictates include free health care, not fighting taxes, giving everything you can spare to the poor and maybe some beyond that, and communal property?
The words “dictate free health care” ring a lot of bells but none I like to hear.
“Fight taxes” too. Though not all taxes are fair or evenly leavied (Astrid Lindgren wrote a humorous short story when she was annoyed with being taxed above what she found reasonable), but, you know,
no taxes=no roads without toll, no school without cost-recovering fees, no swimming pool with affordable pricing, no publicly funded research, no public health control, an army financed by looting, police financed by bribes only, …
It read to me that not fighting taxes was supposed to be a bad thing.
Maybe I got lost in the negations? Not really a native speaker and I replied before being fully awake.
In case I misunderstood: Sorry.
The theory of political framing says that even obviously wrong connections get belived when repeated often enough and so I sometimes feel compelled to point out why an organized democratic state based on rule of law is a useful thing to have.
Now, if only we could get something like a flat tax rate, applied equally across the board to everyone making over say the poverty line–or at least get the 10% and especially the 1% to just pay theirs as well as the rest of us… :/
God no. No damn Flat Taxes.
Unless you want your rate to go way up and the rich to pay far less.
More brackets and higher marginal rates on the top end.
As an atheist, you are better equipped to deal with differing beliefs than a fundie, you base your actions on rationality and science, a fundie bases theirs off of a faith that is their entire identitiy, you can go to a church and not have its teachings threaten your very sense of self, but for a fundie going to a different church does give that threat
My Social growth was severely stunted, I grew up in a near identical church situation, and even I knew not to yell “THIS IS WEIRD, OH MY GOD WHAT IS THAT!?” In a different church, cuz you don’t yell in church
And if you recall how every other member of her church has reacted to things from other religions then screaming and yelling about how they’re wrong is exactly what she’s been taught.
I used to be in a relationship with an atheist who was very much not how you describe atheists, more like how you describe fundies. Differences between individual people are, as a rule, a lot bigger than differences between categories of people.
Well, some atheists are raging arseholes. But for the rest: if you believe all church services are empty ritual none of them seem really alarming. But Joyce may [have been brought up to] believe that some rituals are literally Satanic or insulting to God, and therefore truly dangerous.
You don’t have to worry about the guy next to you being sick. You have to worry about the guy 3 people away from you because they turn the cup 1/4 turn each time
Yay! Such a great country we live in! When a kid begs for a pain-free life on the Internet (because no universal health care), sometimes he’s successful!
I dunno, this seems to be the de facto case already. Many public defenders are so overloaded and underpaid that it’s as if you don’t have a lawyer if you can’t afford a private attorney.
Side note: other people who’ve been to Catholic masses, did they give you wine along with those wafers? They never did that part in the Catholic churches that I’ve been to in the part of Virginia I’m from.
Depends on the church. Every one I ever went to was wafers first and wine off to the side, varying by church.
Some churches had large populations and so they only offered the wine at the really early masses with less people. But yeah, we did the nice long lines up the aisles, receive communion in your hand or upon your tongue (that one always weirded me out) cross yourself or step sideways and bow to the altar and then circle around back into your pew.
I don’t remember ever getting wine when I went to communion. If I remember correctly, only the pastor drank wine in my hometown. But it’s been ages so I may be mistaken.
Sometimes yes, sometimes no, depends on the Catholic church. The one I went to (in CT) growing up didn’t; they had a communion rail like is shown in the comic, and the priest and deacon served the host from the ceborium (bowl), with an altar boy holding a gold platen under your chin. My cousin’s church in upstate NY you stood in line, got a host from the priest/deacon, then walked over and drank from the chalice held by a congregant volunteer.
Fun fact: at least in Mexico, catholics don’t get wine unless is their first communion or something (so yes we take a zip when we are las young as… 9), only comunion wafers either on pieces or in small circles. and you are not supposed to chew them.
Prior to Vatican II, it was the established practice of the Catholic Church to only offer communion in one kind to the congregation, reserving the wine for the clergy. This was one of the things early protestants/reformers had a problem with.
The thinking behind it is that each of the species transform into the fullness of Christ, so even if you only eat the bread, you receive body, blood, soul and divinity.
Vatican II opened for taking communion in both kinds to everyone, at the discretion of each bishop. Some bishops have given blanket permissions to give the congregations both kinds all the time, others are more restrictive.
Well, there’s no need to chew them since they’re… wafer thin, and they’ll dissolve in your mouth pretty quickly. But yeah, I remember the times I was in church and only the priest would get to sip from the wine. Rather stingy if you ask me.
My high school took us to a yearly mass, plus one special one for freshmen. Because these weren’t public masses, just ones for our high school, they gave us grape juice, but I’m told it was normally wine. The communion was like a circle puffed rice flat cookie. It didn’t taste like anything – I think it was compressed baking powder. I dunno if we were allowed to chew or not. I did, but I was later told by my friend I shouldn’t have taken it in the first place because I wasn’t confirmed. Whoops.
Back during the Badtimes Party, before it went Badtimes, she stated that she doesn’t see anything wrong with drinking alcohol once a person is of legal age, so her church probably isn’t inherently anti-alcohol
Now the strange thing to ME is the Father bringing the Wine and Wafers TO the worshippers. We always got out of the Pews into the center lane, top rows first of course, and then after getting the Blood circling around the pews to the flesh on the side to uniformly and neatly get back into the pews without conflict of accident.
Many (but not all) Catholic parishes removed their altar-rails after Vatican II.
The altar-rails (or “chancel rails”) were originally installed to replace the earlier rood screens (or “choir screens”) either as a Protestant reform or (in Catholic churches) after the Council of Trent.
In the Catholic church I attended growing up, the building was built in the 1970s (after Vatican II), but the head priest was old-school enough that he had the church built with the communion rail.
Her fundie programming is still being flushed. This is just another piece slowly being flushed (this may be a double or triple flusher, though, and a plunger should be kept handy).
This isn’t a matter of fundie flushing, she’s an adult, she KNOWS how to behave in public, yelling in church, stating to the guy who BROUGHT HER TO HIS CHURCH that his means of worship is weird, and YELLING during PRAYER?
judging by the lack of scathing looks from background characters (wait have we even seen any besides the priest?), I’m assuming that the yelling is conveniently using comic logic, making it inaudible to everyone but the main characters. because, yeah, yelling in church just…. does not compute. (…unless it’s the church from Blues Brothers)
No, we’ve not seen any other people’s reactions, but she’s clearly yelling at the person sipping wine…and importantly, she’s shouting and making /Jacob/ Feel bad and foolish for thinking this grown woman could behave.
I realized that the last time Becky was at church, she was forced to wear an ugly pink dress and pink shoes. Now she is wearing her “butchest duds” of her own choice, at a church that considers her a valid human being. Becky is rad. Go Becky!!!
For the sake of entertainment (Meaning watching Joyce react to it) Becky should either become Luciferian or Anton Lavay Satanist. (neither is pro killing children just so we’re clear on that)
Off:
Hi folks, I’m gonna visit Los Angeles in a few weeks. Can you recomend things to see there? I’m not very interested in the movies-related stuff. I welcome recommendation for where to eat, too.
When we had a local friend show us around, he chose the Apple Pan and Canter’s Deli for food, and took us to Greystone Manor, then on a scenic drive around Laurel Canyon and Mulholland Drive and Griffith Park so you can really see a lot. We did drive past the Walk of Fame and Graumann’s Chinese Theater, but they were really crowded and we didn’t get out.
Leo’s tacos is the best food truck for an authentic SoCal taco experience. It’s super cheap and tasty too. There is a ton of stuff to do in LA depending on your interests. If you like museums the LACMA and Getty are good choices. For theme parks, there is Universal Studios and Six Flags. For nature, there is Griffith Park and its awesome observatory.
Thank you all I’m gonna definitely try the tacos, we’re planning on checking out mulholland drive, too. Since we are only going to spend 2 days and 3 nights, I want to aim for capturing the spirit of the city, experience the atmosphere as much as we can.
They have a place near Culver City and a bunch of Food Trucks that go to various places in the county. It’s basically Korean-Mexican fusion, tacos, burritos, quesadillas and the like, but with Kimchi, Bulgogi and other Korean ingredients.
If you’re willing to eat something that requires a knife and fork, I can’t recommend the Wet Burrito enough. It’s just to die for…
Someone should have warned Jacob that Joyce has germ-panic.
As far as I remember they used to circle the cup slightly so your lips do not touch the same place as the one of the person before you and hopefully the metal of the cup serves to kill off germs till you have a full round (like messing door handles used to kill of germs which you modern plastic ones don’t).
If your church givse communion with a common cup of wine, be nice to your fellow churchgoers and don’t participate when you have a cold or worse.
Ryan used roofies, not booze. Joyce isn’t alcohol-phobic. She’s anti-drinking-while-under-age and probably mildly mysophobic, given her behavior in the showers.
Just out of interest, I wonder how many times the vicar has been asked that question? I have a strong feeling that it is one of those ‘if I had a dollar…’ situations for him!
As an atheist, I know I don’t really get to have an opinion on the proper way to do rituals, but I’m with Joyce on the germs: everyone using the same cup is icky. Joyce’s church’s custom of using individual cups is clearly cleaner. However, I must side with the Episcopalians on the matter of wine: Jesus blessed the bread and wine at the Last Supper, so bread and wine it is (sensible exceptions may apply.)
Sensible exceptions? Not according to the Catholic Church. The bread must have SOME gluten to be bread, even if the person taking communion has Celiac’s.
….. hmm, how to do this without risking germ spread? Maybe take the bread and dip the end you haven’t touched into the wine.
Dipping the bread in the wine is called intincture and is absolutely a thing people do. My rector explains it before every major holiday service for the newbies, so they know they don’t have to drink from the cup if they don’t want to.
I’m 24 years old, today (38 days younger than the Power Rangers franchise, as I’ve grown fond of saying). I’m not getting any younger, and it feels like I should be deciding what career to start looking into. Maybe something to do with history and language…
The last seven years have, in all honesty, felt like they were mostly wasted. I’ve spent them mostly withdrawing from social interactions, outside of certain very-closed circles of friends, trying to get over depression, cope with the incessant bullying of the past, and coming to terms with my autism. I’ve met and lost friends and family, been abused and tormented by people I thought I could trust, and started a long-lasting romantic relationship.
That last part is the most lasting, significant change I’ve had since high school. My girlfriend has been the one constant for the past four years, even when people have tried to get between us. I lost my best friend twice because of this relationship, and I’m glad for it.
Which surprises me, because I had thought he was the one person who really had my back, even when I was being manipulated and abused by others. For the last year or so, there was even a running joke that I had two partners at once, because he’d become so jealous of other people I’d hang out with. Maybe not the nicest joke, but it helped me sort some things out anyway.
This is getting a little long-winded, even without getting into the time I spent living with a registered sex offender and other “fun” stories. I guess it’s because this is the only online community where I feel reasonably safe being open and honest, without trying to deflect the honesty into bad humor. Anyway, I’ll wrap this up for now, since it really has nothing to do with the comic, and it’s admittedly self-indulgent.
To me, “okay” is something I don’t put much stock into being. If that makes sense. My level of “okay-ness” fluctuates so frequently, on nearly a day-to-day (and sometimes even minute-to-minute) basis, that I’ve stopped actually caring whether or not I’m “okay”.
To try and clarify, if somebody asks me “How ya doin’?”, my most common response is “Oh, I’m doin’.”. I don’t really take the time to consider whether or not I’m “okay”. I just sort of “am”, if that makes any sense.
Of course, this is in no way meant to dismiss your concern, which I appreciate regardless, and thank you for it.
When people politely ask me how I am, as a formal greeting that is, and not as a genuine enquiry, I have two answers. When I am okay I answer “Can’t complain!” And when I am not okay I answer “Mustn’t grumble.”
You’ve been one of the more supportive commenters, during my less-than-positive moments on this site. Thank you for that. It’s been very helpful, the kindness and understanding I’ve received from you, and I can only try to pay that forward in the future.
Broadened a bit, this also applies to nearly everyone I’ve interacted with on this site. We don’t always know whether we’ve helped someone, but I think everyone should know about at least one instance where something they’ve said or done has had a positive impact.
Thanks. We have a great community here, I think (thank you for your contribution to it), and if anyone gets any positive experience out of me blabbing about Becky I’m happy to oblige.
I’m a big fan of the concept of paying it forward, so congratulations in advance to whoever in the future crosses your path when they need it the most.
If it’s any consolation, I’m almost 47 and still trying to figure out what I want to be when I grow up, hah. Doesn’t help that the two employment paths I was taking forward at different times both got stepped away from when I started a family, and both are nigh-impossible to get back into again (especially from the area I’m currently in). And I’m not really qualified for much other than joe jobs–and really am not up to dealing with the general public, especially face-to-face, these days. Boo.
So what I’m doing, frankly, is going back to my childhood, and asking myself, what did I want to be when I grew up? Because I suspect that may be what in our hearts of hearts we really want to do; and these days, there are so many new ways to do things than when I was a kid that a childhood dream that may have seemed impossible back then may now be realistic.
At this point I’m indulging my crafty side, since I’m home unemployed at the moment anyways, and also trying to start up with my writing again (difficult due to some meds I’m on that kill plots, for some reason), because, hey, I always wanted to be a writer, and I’m decent at it, and thanks to self-publishing and Amazon, one can self-publish for free (try Lulu for that) and potentially make a pretty decent living if you can crank it out fast enough.
So why not become a porn-lord, I figure? Publish under a pseudonym and I haven’t got much to lose, do I? Just have to sit down and force myself to write.
So, anyways, rambling a bit but that’s my solution to my own “Gee, I guess I’d better start adulting at some point huh” issue; maybe it’ll be of help to you too.
Happy birthday; and I’m glad you’ve got a good relationship in your life!
I’m just some random person on the internet, but I don’t think you’ve been wasting your time. You’ve got some psychological things to work out, and you’ve been dealing with them. That’s important. And at your age? You’re at least a decade up on me getting a handle on your depression. I’m impressed and mildly jealous. Good for you!
A stable, healthy romantic relationship isn’t wasted time, either. And learning who you real friends and family are isn’t a waste. It’s painful, but it’s not a waste.
tbh, I assumed you’d be headed towards something technical, since programming, engineering etc tend to be more accommodating to people on the spectrum.
and hey, you’re still in your 20’s; I have a good friend who got his geology degree at, like, 30, and another who’s still trying to get the last few credits he needs at 31 (ah shit I need to get him a bday present still); getting a degree later isn’t all that unusual. heck, I went back to school too and… huh, I was only 26 when I graduated that school? time has been flying past since then…
I’m afraid that she’ll start acting out even more than she is already. You know, like standing in the middle of the nave, screaming something like: “Repent! Repent I tell you or you’ll all be DAMNED!” before collapsing or something.
I think Joyce is more the “silently screaming” type than the “REPENT! REPENT, YE SINNERS!” type. Today, the religious freak out has gone down to a wide-eyed “weird,” and her actual freak out is over germs, so she may be on the road to adjustment.
Imagine that, instead of this having been a Church, Joyce had accompanied someone to a Mosque or a Synagogue. How would this behavior look?
The fact Joyce doesn’t feel any compunction *at all* against so blatantly running her mouth about how moronic or weird she thinks this all is in the middle of a church service, shows more about how little regard she holds these Christians than any one thing she’s said *about* them.
As people have alluded, even atheists who give less than zero shits about religion would at least have some fundamental degree of respect for the people around them.
This makes me cringe too, but I suspect at least some of it’s exaggeration for dramatic effect. Willis doesn’t often use internal monologue, so he has to use dialogue where a monologue would work. I suspect from the lack of reaction from everyone else, that there’s some exaggeration for comedic effect going on.
To be fair, as someone raised an athiest by respectful parents, the first few times I was in any church, I was a complete ass at every turn. I didn’t want to be there and I wasn’t going to let anyone forget. (In hindsight, I regret ruining some people’s days, but I can’t undo it.)
…and that’s without Joyce’s history in a religion that goes out of their way to make its followers think that all other religions, no matter how slight the difference, are evil. I’d had, like, weird bullying conversion attempts when other kids found out I wasn’t any form of Christian(kids can be cruel), but that’s nothing compared to why Joyce is rude.
Anyway, point is she’s trying, and right now she’s immersed in something she was (wrongly) taught to fear. If she doesn’t apologize after this is over, then she’ll go down a peg in my book, but for now… she’s only human, and just getting this far is a big step for her.
(That said, I still want to shout at her to shut up to avoid hurting Jacob’s feelings any more than she already has.)
I mean, yeah, I guess that’s dickish behavior on your part. But it’s a bit more understandable because a) there was no percentage in it for you and b) you don’t share their value system at all. Like, what were people expecting.
In Joyce’s case, she’s getting…well…triggered by pews instead of folding chairs, no electric guitars, the fact Episcopalians refer to Communion by its classical name, and the fact *they use wine instead of grape juice in spite of the fact it hews closer to the literal text of the Bible*.
And I might be additionally biased, because not gonna lie, Joyce’s church sounds really fucking kitschy. I might be a nihilist, but I can totally jive with the Episcopalian aesthetic and respect for their classical heritage.
Oh thank goodness someone else feels like this. I mean, it feels kind of out of my place as an atheist to say something like this, but I just find Joyce’s type of evangelical church to be desperately unaesthetic. There is so much cool art of every type in the Christian tradition! Why would you throw that out for secondhand versions of mainstream American culture?
Maybe if this were a mosque or synagogue Joyce would have expected differences. Here she’s gobsmacked with the “Protestants be we all” idea whipsawing with this near-Catholic experience.
Amazing to think that she’s seen past what her church taught her re atheism and lesbianism, and look at her two closest friends. If she can make that, she can make this. But it won’t be without stumbling.
I agree. If she went to a service of a completely different faith, she would have been prepared form unknown things. Here, she freaks out because she thinks she knows what to expect and gets confronted with her worst fears about other Christian denominations.
She will probably need a few days before she realizes how abominable she behaved.
She also wouldn’t have gone to such a service to participate, but to observe. She wouldn’t have been planning to take the equivalent of communion or whatever.
As a Methodist Protestant, we did the kneeling at the front thing, but used grape juice.
There was also a lot of singing, but no electric guitars. They’re pretty cool with lesbians, but don’t have a Jesus on their cross.
As someone who went to a different church’s service only once or twice in their lives, this story arc has been fascinating for me, even though I haven’t been to a service in about ten years. It sounds like my Methodist upbringing is kind of a middle ground between what Joyce and Jacob are used to?
If memory serves it just does mention men laying with men, nothing about women. But it has been awhile since my high school religion class, there may be something I missed there, and most people will still interpret it as a blatant “gay = bad!!” statement, despite them taking everything else literally in the book.
Which is always why I have taken my father’s (who taught Bible History at a fanatically catholic school for several years) view on the bible, and that it is the best piece of historic fiction you will ever read.
I think it may be the worst piece of fiction I’ve ever read. There’s hardly any plot, the characterization is often weak, the dialogue is sparse and poorly written, its wordbuilding is hamhanded and yet vague, its timeline is unclear, there are massive detailed (boring) technical asides, and the main characters die and get rotated out faster than game of thrones.
I mean, sure, there are probably lots of truly awful books out there that have all these flaws as well, but I prefer to read good books. And the Good Book is definitely not a good book, as fiction books go.
Not in the Old Testament. In the New Testament, there’s Romans 1:26, which talks about women behaving unnaturally, and it is the only specific reference to female homosexuality in the Bible. (It was written by Paul. Of course it was.)
Not to defend the guy, but IIRC not all of the books traditionally attributed to Paul are believed to have actually been written/dictated by him. Can’t remember off the top of my head whether or not Romans was one of those, however.
Interestingly (not sure how widespread this is) some scholars interpret Ruth and Naomi from the book of Ruth as having a loving lesbian relationship, and that Ruth’s marriage to Boaz was right because it was the only way Ruth could gain safety and protection as a woman, yet it did not overshadow the love between Ruth and Naomi.
In this reading, the message is, “Marriage and family are political /social institutions, separate from romantic love. Loyal romantic love, even between two women, is close to God’s love. However, taking a wife you do not love romantically in order to protect her is honorable, and honors God.”
Which is sort of a weird message nowadays? I wish I could find the article I read about it; it was by a female rabbi. The gist was, committed love and doing right by someone are different things, but both honor God. She also made a compelling case, I think, that the love between Ruth and Naomi would be read as romantic at the time, rather than mother / daughter.
So…not “an abomination” but also pro straight marriage over same-sex marriage.
The ironic thing is, from Joyce’s description, her denomination is actually closer to what I would consider a ‘hippie church’ than any mainstream group! I mean… Dancing ‘worship leaders’? Electric guitars?
Hippies are known to be seen shimmying, after all.
…full disclosure, I don’t know too much about churches of different dominations, hippies OR hippie churches, and I’m frankly a bit vague on shimmying as well, so don’t mind me. Just being silly over here.
My mom was a total beatnik yoot and a somewhat important leader in my church, so by default I attended a “hippie church” all my life. And let me tell you, we did far more than shimmy.
In fact, I would sing an unbidden harmony to every poppy rock-hymn, and after eight years my best friend finally didn’t get annoyed by that.
We did the kneeling at the front for a while in my Episcopal church years ago. Then during renovations to the church we started doing the traditional Catholic queue up plus cup thing. After renovations, it just stuck that way.
Something I’m wondering about because of this comic…
I went to a more liberal Lutheran church when I was younger (I found out, in the 90s, my pastor was pro-LGBT rights. In Kansas, and encouraged my mother to explore why she did not believe in the resurrection, so yeah, a really liberal pastor) which offered the choice of grape juice or wine for the Eucharist.
What do other Episcopal or Catholic churches do for parishioners who are abstinent? My father’s in Alcoholics Anonymous and I avoid alcohol like the plague, and both of us do not go to church. I know parishioners can pass on the Eucharist (I do at funerals, but that’s more awareness of what the church would want over myself), but what about parishioners that are devout? What do they do if they, like me, avoid all kinds of alcohol?
In the Catholic church, it’s the bread that’s the real focus of the ritual. Everyone who’s participating in Communion at all takes that, while about half of them just pass by the wine.
In catholic churches in Belgium they don’t even pass on the wine. The only one who drinks form it, is the priest, and possibly the onderpastoor, or in smaller congregations, the layperson helping with the service. The rest of the community just comes to to the front of the church, and gets a communion wafter.
Pardon the language given the situation, but Jesus Christ.
Joyce, I might not believe in other denominations of Christianity but my own or other religions in it of themselves, but girl, you gotta have a modicum of respect for ’em. This is just blatantly rude and completely ridiculous.
Everything she has been taught, from early childhood, is that “coexisting” and respecting other religions is evil.
She’s made remarkable progress, but it’s only been a couple of months.
And today’s freakout is actually more about her germaphobia and food hangups than anything else.
As well as to new or unfamiliar people at virtually all more-innocuous social events like community dinners, dance events, work parties, and religious rituals like that depicted here.
In fact, basically it seems to be the principle that all of human society, good and bad, runs on.
Right. You’ve just got to have your filter well tuned enough to realize when the thing you’re following along with is really a problem.
But not so highly tuned you freak out over innocuous things.
This kind of phrasing (rhetoric?) I find really annoying in general. Like when people say, “Well, Hitler did _______” when it’s something pretty much all political leaders do, or is just a benign thing a lot of people do. I once saw someone write that it’s wrong to be vegetarian because Hitler was vegetarian, and I *still* cannot figure out if they were trolling or serious.
“Follow other people’s leads, don’t stress too much or over-think things, nobody’s judging you” are really helpful lessons that people learn in CBT if one has social anxiety. Picturing the worst case scenario (“but what if the party turns into a Lynch mob?!”) is actually an anxiety symptom called catastrophizing.
A therapist might help work through catastrophizing by coming up with a plan for worst case scenario events, while still maintaining emphasis on the relative safety of normal social events such as parties and church.
Joyce probably *does* feel like she is being judged (by God) for participating in these rituals, but perhaps fears being judged by her friends were she to simply opt-out. So, caught in the middle, she feels mounting panic. She (like many characters in this comic) could probably use some real therapy. I’ve been to therapy. It helped a lot.
Haha, nope. Our Baptist Church also used little crackers and grape juice. My parents being deacons, I’d score the rest of the grape juice afterwards. It wasn’t until I attended a wedding at another church I saw this sort of service with real wine. (and also was scared I was breaking some sort of law).
Not to trumpet supposed self-sanitizing of a cup of wine, but there are supposed to be some records in existence of food-poisoning outbreaks on cruise ships that show a correlation between passenger drinking of wine and liquor and avoiding the food poisoning. Apparently beer doesn’t rate equally as protection.
Beer was far safer to drink than water in yea olde dark ages because the water was frequently contaminated due to the lack of knowledge about people pissing and shitting in it upstream, plus insects and bacteria, etc.
But part of the process for making beer involves a nice long boil, and that kills off all the things that would otherwise do a fair job at killing you. Saint Arnolf (sic) is a Saint in part because he once dipped the end of his crucifix in a vat of beer and ordered the town to drink only beer. Thus saving many lives.
Also, beer was made in various strengths. The beer you’d drink just to avoid water was called a ‘small beer’ and was very low in alcohol, being made from a second running of water through the barley mash after the first one had already extracted most of the fermentable sugars. So there was little issue with people drinking only beer and no water at all.
I’m kind of assuming so too. Or maybe Joyce’s home-church (whatever she thinks it is, Mr Brown apparently moved them around a lot) was loud enough that you could just throw a microtantrum and not interrupt the service.
Shes not trying very hard at all, shes acting like a petulant child. Just because its new and it doesn’t marry up to her world view doesn’t mean she gets to forget common decencies like basic politeness and manners.
Yeah.. If she had at least one nice thing to say between all the complaints or could at least restrain herself from immediately blurting out everything that’s wrong, it’d be one thing? But as it is, she’s just being very rude.
She’s kind of actively freaking out, because her upbringing taught her that this is what CHURCH OF SATAN looks like? Note how she’s still there, how she actually did follow Jacob to the front and is not refusing the wine, just asking a confused question.
If she has any good things to say, it’ll be later, after she’s done ABSOLUTELY FREAKING OUT
it’s the contrast between her questions and facial expressions (MAJOR FREAKOUT) and what she ends up doing (actually go through the whole thing) that shows, to me, that she is trying really hard
I’m not enjoying this storyline at all. As an ex-Catholic I feel surprised and angry at Joyce’s responses to this church and feel an increasing need to defend religion. That ain’t right but it’s the way I feel. I don’t usually feel that atheists are attacking me personally and I have no love for organised religion but damn. Might stop reading for a couple of weeks and return.
What happened to Discus btw, at least it was easy to log-in…
I’m an ex-Catholic too fam AND a sheltered kid so I totally understand where Joyce is coming from. Joyce’s responses are perfectly normal for someone raised in the kind of environment she was. There’s a world of difference between highly-ritualized denominations that draw a lot from RC traditions (like Episcopalians) and the more freewheeling style of many other Protestant sects that Joyce is used to — and as sheltered as Joyce was, with her pre-existing bias against Catholicism (again part of her upbringing) she’s having strong cognitive dissonance issues right now.
disqus? it does have the advantage of being able to block people.
good moderation is better than individual blocks in the case of trolls, but when you just can’t stand someone for personal reasons it’s nice to just dump them in the killfile
It also does at least allow one to track replies in one spot. I’m perfectly happy with the comment system here, though, if only because of Gravatar-roulette, ha ha.
I was raised in a fairly liberal Catholic way, which included a sense that, sure, the Protestants may be doing it “not as right” as the Catholics, but they are doing something good in the way they do church. We were all a part of “Team God.” So I was finding Joyce to be a bit annoying thus far.
But with this strip, I came to the realization that Joyce has a lot of strata of prejudice to dig through. She has been taught that there is *one way* to worship God, and all other ways are idolatry and are on the path to perdition. And she has had this drummed into her head for her entire life, and she is just now starting to get the tools to free herself.
It is well worth remember that she has gone to college to get her “MRS.” degree, or at least she started that way. This experience, despite her extreme reaction, is a vital first step towards a larger world.
And the look on her face in the last panel has so many adorbs, it might amount to “totes” and it triggers my “Awww, poor kid” reflex.
As someone who also grew up in the Catholic church I’ve been confronted with people who insisted that Catholics aren’t Christian. Even as an atheist that still pisses me off. But I also understand that it’s a set of beliefs very strongly ingrained through repeat reinforcement and training, and someone like Joyce who’s having a very painful breakaway from the shitty, abusive, cult-like environment she was raised in is going to struggle with the idea of accepting a form of belief that not a year prior she believed was idolatry.
Joyce is definitely being rude and disruptive (I’m hoping the yelling is an exaggerated comedic effect, because otherwise, just…ugh), but I think it’s important to keep in mind that Joyce has likely been taught that not only are Catholics wrong and weird (and Episcopalian services are so like Catholic masses), but also evil.
Way back when, shortly after Joyce learned Dorothy was an atheist, we saw that she carried around Chick tracts. If you’ve never seen a Chick tract on Catholicism before, well, Are Roman Catholics Christians? is a good introduction to Chick’s bizarre conspiracies theories on Catholics and The Death Cookie is a taste of how hateful he can be, but even those are just scratching the surface.
If Joyce was exposed to his anti-Catholic tracts (and his hatred of Catholics slips into pretty much every tract) or if her church taught the same, then she’s been told that not only do Catholics worship Mary (who is secretly the demonic temptress Semiramis) and the Sun God Ra, but also that they started Islam, Mormonism, Masonry, the Jehovah’s Witnesses, that they killed Lincoln and Kennedy, that they started WWII and funded Hitler and Stalin, they organized the Holocaust, and they’re preparing for a second inquisition to slaughter all the Protestants. And that’s just a start.
Honestly, if Joyce has been taught all that, it’s quite a testament to her resolve that she hasn’t run away screaming.
I’m assuming she’s whisper-yelling: no voice in it but definitely a lot of feeling.
I mean, otherwise I’m pretty sure she’d be out the doors on her butt already
In Ukrainian Byzantine churches they soak the bred cubes in the wine then drop it in your mouth. Imagine if Joyce had to deal with those shenanigans. Also the fact depending on the day whether we follow the pope or not.
I had this crisis of faith when attending a Methodist church after years of being a Baptist. I wasn’t sure what I was about to drink. (Spoiler, it was grape juice)
not a lot to say about this mary worth other than i was curious how you make vegan lasagna and i looked it up and received psychic damage from three-to-four different revulsions/phobias
today in #9chickweedlane i learned that despite being ostensibly new yorkers, the characters in this strip sure like to talk about british royalty all the time
For April's second bonus strip, we see ROBIN in an unused strip that would've run April 16! But didn't! Read this bonus strip and hundreds of previous at the Dumbing of Age Patreon: patreon.com/dumbingofage
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CBS on the cardinals: "One thing we know they're not doing is checking Instagram because their devices have all been confiscated. I believe the kids call it rawdogging."
if you want to know my secret to finishing 6 strips in two days, it's -- you know it -- autism and blaring NES Ducktales Moon Theme nonstop for 36 hours, but i repeat myself
WEEKLY WEDNESDAY @tfwiki.net PIC TWOFER!
It's nigh two minutes on two Generation Two toys that are too expensive, the unreleased Laser Cycles SOUNDWAVE and JAZZ! Man I hope we get a Legacy-molded Soundwave bike someday, but I ain't holding my breath.
youtube.com/shorts/v_S44...
before this skybound kickstarter ends, can we talk about how, no, you can't just draw optimus prime's season 2 revision head and color the eyes yellow and have it be a marvel optimus
marvel optimus never had the season 2 revision head
question: does the UK still call the ninja turtles the hero turtles, and if not, how far back did they stop
in other words, would dumbing of age's jason, who's like 22, still call them the hero turtles
Aaron Rupar @atrupar.com ⋅ 2d
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There could be… COOTIES in there! SO GROSS
straight up, how does Becky know and Joyce doesn’t tho
Alcohol isn’t actually that good of a sanitizer, but that’s not really the salient point for eucharist.
excuse me but i will put only the cleanest, freshest, most locally-sourced and organic Jesus blood into my body thank you very much
Is it free-range Jesus blood?
As opposed to caged Jesus blood?
And now I’m imagining Jesus as a character in Deadman Wonderland. I wonder what his Branch of Sin would be…
Isn’t that obvious?…
Well, okay, not really, but I bet it would be something with thorns. Probably shield-like (à la pacifist)…
*Passes out pamphlets for PETD, People for Ethical Treatment of Deities*
Oh, I thought you were going for “Deadies”, not “Deities”.
Our sister organization.
To be fair my church won at least a few new members when they started offering a gluten free bread option for communion. (Though we’re one of the sects that doesn’t believe that the food literally transforms into the body and blood of Christ, that’s mostly a Catholic and Orthodox thing (and kind of Lutherans)
http://infallible-catholic.blogspot.mx/2012/04/eucharistic-miracle-of-lanciano-italy.html?m=1
This didn’t help to discourage the idea.
Pretty sure Lutherans are also “Real Presence” or something similar. Definitely not full transubstantiation; Luther explicitly came out against that.
Yep, Lutherans believe in sacramental union: the real presence of Christ “in, with and under the forms of the bread and wine”. So not that the bread is transformed, but that it is both bread and Christ at the same time in the Eucharist.
Schrödinger’s Christ?
Don’t get any of that GMO Jesus Blood. It taste weird.
It’s not even a decent Bordeaux FFS
Alcohol isn’t a great sanitizer but saliva is also somewhat antiseptic itself, so transferring living stuff from saliva to alcohol back to someone elses’ saliva is a pretty low % event.
Um… I’ll spare the horrific details, but fundamentalist practitioners of a mainstream religion sometimes give male babies herpes with their mouths while performing one of their rituals exactly as prescribed by the sect. Sometimes babies die from this.
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/baby-dies-herpes-virus-ritual-circumcision-nyc-orthodox/story?id=15888618
(Christian Scientist kids die for their parents’ beliefs too, and so do the children of anti-vaxxers, so I’m not trying to pick on one (or even any) religion. But this is the one that’s caused by contaminated saliva.)
Yeah… I’ve heard of this one, and it brings to mind several questions.
Chief among them is “Who the fuck decided that it was a good idea to fellate an infant, for literally any reason at all?”
I forgot to add my second, nearly as pressing question. “Why the fuck didn’t somebody stop the nutbag from my first question?”
Low % doesn’t mean impossible…it just means you have to have something really nasty that can survive the saliva, the metal cup and the wine. Which…usually you know if you have something really nasty.
If you know and you don’t care, that’s a totally different, awful problem.
And it’s certainly not great in as low of concentrations as there is in church wine.
Yeah. If you’re passing around a cup of vodka, that’s a different story.
I feel like that’d improve the church experience on several fronts.
Eh, at my family’s Catholic church, the protest would wipe the edge of the cup with a sanitizing wipe and turn it slightly between people, so by the time a person’s lips actually touch the same part as someone who had been before them, it was basically clean. So alcoholics sanitization properties a moot point, anyway.
My family’s Anglican church did that as well. Also, the priest said, if the gold or silver of the goblet is pure enough, it’s toxic to most germs, so there’s scientific as well as religious reasons to have high-quality metal.
At my Catholic church, it used to be done that way, but they have now swiched to dipping the host into the wine, then serving the host on the tongue. This completely removes any chance of any germs being passed from one person to the next.
We were trained to do that, too. It’s one of the main cloths that gets folded into the altar every Saturday evening – the purificator. You wipe the rim, then give the goblet a quarter-turn, which is at best a placebo unless your church has only four-eight people in it, but ya know, whatever.
Also, Joyce at an Episcopal church is everything I never knew I wanted, and also giving me pleasant flashbacks of the first time I went into one.
Because I guess Joyce assumes all churches do the things her church does until told otherwise, whereas Becky actually bothers to research this stuff.
Imagine, doing research into *gasp* how people other than you do things and understand/interact with the world! THE HORROR, THE HORROR
I wouldn’t be surprised if Becky is doing a lot of research on churches these days, hoping to find one that she feels comfortable in and that accepts lesbians.
This was my guess too. I could definitely see her going to Jacob’s church again.
This reminds me of Maria Burnham’s
quest to find a gay-friendly, Jesus-centered church in her new neighborhood. Her take on what appears to be an Episcopalian church: “I thought you said it wasn’t Catholic? It sure feels like it.”
Because Becky isn’t panicking, and has been making a point of studying Science!
…. though probably not much if she thinks that at-most 40 proof wine will act quickly enough to sanitize the cup between sips.
… What kind of wine are you drinking that’s 20% ABV? o.O
None. That was erring on the side of high ABV to make the point.
At my Episcopal church the ‘wine’ is a mix of donated port, so it may well get up to that high of an ABV.
Well, if the priest carries the cup around, you probably want the wine to be port-able.
I guess that depends on whether he’s considered a Zinfandel?
Catholic rules allow up to 18% brandy to be added during fermentation so that the wine won’t go sour during trans-port.
Because when Toedad started talking about pulling becky out of college she researched other churches to see if there was one that would accept her as a lesbian.
ya know, I’m a bit mixed about the idea of churches advertising on their websites or wherever, “YO, we totes serve REAL alcohol for communion!! GF wafers available too!!”
I mean, whatever brings in the flock, sure!
(just saying this never occurred to me, but then I haven’t researched any b/c Church of Carla doesn’t need advertising)
Ha, church websites are notoriously *the worst*. I love my current Episcopalian church, which I discovered through a website called gaychurch.org , but from the church’s website would you have known their beliefs about important issues? Not really. Would you have known that they have gluten-free and alcohol-free eucharist options? You betcha.
…Holy fuck.
I was at Denny’s a few hours ago, looking at the menu and wondering what the big orange “GF” next to some items was for. It only just clicked that it means “gluten free”. Maybe not the wildest of revelations, but I was staring at the letters in confusion for like 15 minutes.
Is that canon? Too tired to clarify that.
Honestly, and this might just be the Catholic in me, the fact that Joyce is the only one with her hands not folded, when we know she does so in prayer normally, is kind of bugging me.
Disrespectful, Ms. Brown.
Keep in mind that Joyce would consider you disrespectful simply for being Catholic…
Which I find ironic as I as an ex-catholic, alwaays thought that catholicism was closer to jesus than evangelism/protestant which was “after” and “a part of” catholicism.
In theory, according to the protestants, they’re a return to the original intent after it was corrupted into Catholicism.
I’m sure every denomination thinks their way is closer to Jesus. If they didn’t, why would they do it that way.
She’s not praying; she’s lurking. There’s different protocols for lurking.
And honestly if I were you I’d be more worried about how she’s shouting at people. Shouting at people, which highly respectful, can be a tad disruptive.
Pretzel pose, Joyce. Pretzel pose.
No there is a religious exemption for under-age drinking
Nice to see Becky act so calm and collected when Joyce is the one freaking out and acting hyper. They really do balance each other out.
Actually, Joyce, I’m pretty sure that underaged Communion wine is legal.
Yep, although I’ll also add that it’s really nothing to write home about
Our stuff was pretty good, if I do say so myself.
Of course, that was my unrefined middle school palate talking.
Always thought it tasted like cough syrup.
In Joyce’s case, I’d say it’s something to explicitly avoid writing home about.
…yeah, I certainly wouldn’t want Carol finding out if I were Joyce. Hank’d be cool with it I feel, because Hank seems to be pretty cool, but he wouldn’t keep this a secret from Carol, and Carol is Carol.
Now I’m thinking Underaged Communion Wine would be a great name for a band.
A Christian band? *waggles eyebrows*
My sister and I just spent five minutes giggling at this so thank you.
Depends on the state. Some make exemptions for Communion.
Wait, shit, I thought you said illegal.
It’s such a small amount that they don’t really have to.
Wouldn’t it be mostly grape juice if it hasn’t aged?
ALCOHOL VS COOTIES: FIGHT
Followed by KNEELING BEFORE GOD versus bowing to God’s wrath.
So this guy’s gonna get a tag, right
My first three brain autocompletions for “The Revererend ____” were:
William Barber
Al Sharpton
Ivan Stang
Hahaha! Solid.
Unfortunately, Episcopalian religious leaders still use Catholic titles (Father, Mother), which weirds me out a bit. So Father_____ might bring to mind other names.
Interesting. Anglican ministers in the UK and Australia don’t. They go by “the Reverend Mr” or “the Reverend Dr” depending on whether they have a doctorate or merely a masters. And informally as “vicar”, “rector”, or “padre”, depending on things. And sometimes they have a higher title: we had an “Archdeacon Tress” here for a while (who had been “a gunner in the First World War and a canon in the Second”, but that’s another story).
Anglican ministers *may* opt for father, it depends on the tradition of the particular church.
Vicar, rector and curate describe slightly different positions in the Anglican / Episcopalian Church. It can escalate quickly.
In the Episcopal Church in the United States of America, the “rector” is the priest elected to head a self-supporting parish. A priest who is appointed by the bishop to head a parish in the absence of a rector is termed a “priest-in-charge”, as is a priest leading a mission (that is, a congregation which is not self-supporting). “Associate priests” are priests hired by the parish to supplement the rector in his or her duties while “assistant priests” are priests resident in the congregation who help on a volunteer basis. The positions of “vicar” and “curate” are not recognized in the canons of the entire church. However, some diocesan canons do define “vicar” as the priest-in-charge of a mission; and “curate” is often used for assistants, being entirely analogous to the English situation
My mum grew up in post-War Britain, and one place the family lived in was called “the Old Rec,” as it had been the Rectory for the local church before it was replaced a few hundred years before.
The Old Rec (which always sounded like “The Old Wreck” to me and may have been used thusly occasionally by the inhabitants) was haunted, so Mum always wanted to sleep with one of the family’s two pekes in the room with her, despite Gran’s wishes to the contrary.
I am not positive, but it may have been that house that had the ghost of a little Victorian girl in the front hallway. I can’t say for sure, though, because Mum lived in several places over there, and most of them (being old) seem to have been haunted, ha ha.
More or less OT, sorry; the reference to rectors made me think of it (the rectories, of course, being the housing the church supplied to its rectors).
“I’m open-minded, as long as it’s only slightly different to my previous experience”
Seems like church would be the only place kneeling is welcomed at now a days huh.
Given how religious in character a lot of American patriotism is it’s surprising in a way that kneeling isn’t standard practice for things like the national anthem.
We kneel in church, when saying our prayers, and while being knighted by HM. Whence then the idea that kneeling is not a gesture of respect?
The idea comes from the idea that minorities are supposed to refrain from bringing attention to themselves and the problems they face, so the majority can continue to deny oppression.
Sorry. I was being disingenuous for ironical purposes.
Oops. With the bit about being knighted, I couldn’t tell if you were being facetious or if you were simply a confused citizen of a Commonwealth country.
+1. Zing.
Move every Zing.
damnit I can’t stop laughing at panel 2, it’s like a summary of my life. XD
And she is STILL trying. I’m so impressed by Joyce.
This kind of comment sets itself up for that one joke, which has been told again and again (well, 2 times, as far as I know). I…shall refrain from saying the super-obvious joke. I shall spare you all from the pain. Because I am a merciful person.
although i wouldn’t be against someone else doing it
Yes, she is very trying.
Thanks, I desperately tried to figure out what joke Pl0x was going for
At the moment I think Jacob feels she is bewildering rather than trying… I’m SURE he has no other complicated feelings brewing for her…
Well, I waited, but nobody else stepped up.
I dipped it back when I took communion. Felt less gross.
Am I the only one seeing ads for the My Little Pony movie?
“Princess Celestia died for your sins.”
And now I’m wondering why I haven’t yet seen creepy fanart of Sonic the Hedgehog falling on his knees, weeping, before a crucified Princess Celestia….
…It’s only a matter of time, isn’t it? In fact, it’s probably already out there.
Rule 34 says it is.
And Rule 35 says that if it isn’t, it soon will be.
Christian Sonic the Hedgehog fanart is a fuckin’ trip.
Not going to lie seeing Joyce flail around like a fish out of water is entertaining.
If there were a platonic ideal form of “reverend”, it would look like that.
Truly an Impressive Clergyman!
Self-tonsuring!
As an atheist, “This is weird” summarizes how I feel at any kind of religious service.
Tell me about it. Last one I went to was a cousin’s wedding, and I kept wondering why the middle easterners on all the murals were near paper-white.
And why all the building materials were super expensive and fancy when by their own standards that money should go to the poor.
I’ve been to two services at my maternal grandparents’ Lutheran church: once when we visited for their 60th anniversary, and a second time a couple of years later at Grandma’s funeral. The funeral, where Grandma’s corpse was in a coffin next to the altar, was the less creepy of the two.
Me too. So, basic guidelines. If no one’s writhing on the floor speaking in tongues, no one’s passing around venemous snakes (refrigerated or otherwise), there’s no sex rituals or ritual nudity, there’s no rules about your underwear, there’s not a lot of bones-and-skeletons-and-death imagery beyond a guy on a cross and maybe some stained glass, no one’s using something like a lie-detector machine or an EKG, and the only drug use is a sip of mildly alcoholic beverage…
… then it’s probably normal by religious standards.
…. probably.
You forgot a “speaking in tongues” reference.
…no?
No.
Fun fact: all the churches I’ve had communion at gave you the option between wine and grape juice. Usually it’s white wine and purple juice. Once, a church I went to used red wine and purple juice, but they changed it after they mixed up which cup was which.
That does strike me as odd. All the communion wine I’ve ever had was port. *White* wine? Weird blood.
Well you see Jesus was a pure white guy so his blood must also be white, as any other color then white is pure evil.
Praised be white Jesus!
Damn it, I was going to make that exact joke, but second-guessed it.
Oh I’m still second guessing it, if any mod dosn’t get the over the top sarcasm I was going for, I’m boned.
(Which I’m definitely not trying to reinforce with this comment…nope not at all)
White blood of Christ is less inclined to stain the altar-cloth.
Nonsense, if anything the blood of Christ purifies all things… bloody heretic.
I’m really enjoying Becky in this storyline. I have high hopes for her experiences with the Episcopal church.
I’m on Joyce’s side. The entire church sharing one goblet sounds like a good way to get oral herpes
Agree. Disregarding the stigma*, I’ve gone my whole life so far without having to deal with cold sores, and I don’t want to start now
I’ve gone my whole life dealing with them (passed down from my mother – who told me it was something else, so I had no idea I was carrying an infectious disease until I was like 25) and yeah, they’re irritating and stupid.
Then again, you could already have the virus and just never get any symptoms. That’s a thing too. Fucking glitter disease indeed.
My sores come about from Vitamin C deficiency. If I skip a few days without taking the bitter C pill, at least one appears.
bitter? o.0 vitamin c doesn’t have to have any bitterness. when I was a kid I had delicious fizzy tablets. I’d let them dissolve on my tongue then; these days that’s a bit too intense so I put them in water like you’re “supposed” to.
I remember sweet tasting Vitamin C pills too. But I gotta settle for bitter now, it’s, er, more affordable.
ah. that sucks. and they’re probably *all* more affordable than fresh fruit these days :/
Eh, herpes isn’t a big deal, it’s a minor irritant from time to time at best.
Source: Adam Ruins Everything
There is herpes and there is herpes. Herpes zoster is pretty bad, and when and optic nerve is involved the patient can lose the sight in the affected eye.
A friend ended up with herpes. She and her guy were in a monogamous relationship; used condoms for over a year; and he was her first. They thought he was clean.
Turns out he was an asymptomatic carrier.
She describes it as being like the worst bladder infection you can imagine, then cranked to eleven. :/
Kids, even if you think you’re clean, get everyone involved an STI blood test before ditching the protection, m’kay?
Daigh-umn, Joyce, yoo shore lub yore roo-teens, doncha
This is such a trainwreck and I can’t stop watching
I forget, do Evangelicals have some sort of alcohol prohibition? Or is this just about Joyce being underage?
I think that depends on the individual church. If I remember correctly, Joyce and Becky used to go to a non-denominational church, and those all differ from each other.
Anabaptists / Puritan-based groups do. So, if you’re in a “dry county” in America (one where selling alcohol is de-facto illegal as permits are never granted, even to chain grocery stores) odds are that county’s religious majority is Amish, Mennonite, Quaker, Shaker, Baptist, or one of the post-Puritan fragmentation denominations.
The Puritans broke up prior to the 1700s when it became clear that America was never going to be a theocracy; Puritanism, based largely on the teachings of Erasmus, believed that God’s will for the state was to punish sins, and church and state should not be separate. They were also very much about demonic activity happening on Earth *right now*, and many American “demonic possession” scary stories had origins in Puritan mythology. Much of the Religious Right sprung up from churches with Puritan origins, which were often either Presbyterian, Baptist, or non-denominational but evangelical.
So, right. Not all prohibit alcohol, but many do.
According to some of Joyce’s previous comments on alcohol, it’s an underage thing, not a religious thing.
“I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. You shall have no other gods before me. I offer you a chance for greatness, Isra-El. Take it! You will bow down before me! No matter that it takes an eternity, you will bow down before me – you, and one day, your heirs!”
It’s not ALWAYS alcoholic, depends on the church. And when it IS alcoholic the proof is usually something infinitesimal, anyway. Every church I’ve taken communion at wipes the chalice after each person drinks, and if you’re sick there’re paper cups in the sacristy, just let the minister know. I’d say you can avoid putting your mouth on the chalice by dunking your communion wafer in the wine (which makes that little tasteless disc actually something worth eating…), but if the church uses bread that could lead to crumbs in the Blood of Christ…
Protestants don’t kneel??
I’d assume it depends on denomination.
in my anglican school we used to go up to the front- those who were appropriately levelled up in christ took communion, a little wafer that they dipped in the cup and ate, those who weren’t put their hands behind their backs and just got a blessing.
And lots of us just sat cos we were heathen children.
That’s what our Anglican church did as well. And you could take the Confirmation classes at 17, and thereafter partake in Communion, legal drinking age of 19 be damned. This wasn’t, you know, drinking; this was a tiny sip for religious purposes. Doesn’t even give you the slightest buzz, either; and I am a cheap drunk.
We knelt at the rail in my Methodist church. It looked a lot like what Joyce et al. are doing.
I went to a methodist church, too, can confirm.
I can say Calvinists don’t.
Lutherans do. At least they do in the Netherlands and Denmark.
depends on the Church. I’m LMS and my home church we just went up and received the Eucharist wafer (or a blessing) while standing at the front of the line, before moving over to the usher with the wine (disposable minicups with wine on the outside grape juice on the inner circle, then the shared cup. You chose which). Current church we kneel in the style presented in comic.
My dad’s church uses a silver cup, which…supposedly has antibacterial properties? I def had to google that just now to make sure I wasn’t misremembering, and I guess it’s true.
Some metals do desinfect themselves, copper and brass for example. But afaik, this process takes a few hours.
the best socialised in her homeschool group, presenting, JOYCE BROWN
(somehow not Becky who is a ROCK, were they somehow not in the same group??)
Becky probably was considered too loud, too brash, not ladylike enough, needs remedial femininity lessons by being around good Christian girls etc
Best socialized = least likely to rebel.
Not that it worked out EXACTLY as intended…
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/04-just-hangin-out-with-my-family/neighbor-2/
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-6/01-to-those-whod-ground-me/strength-2/
Bingo. Best socialized didn’t mean most socialized, it meant best indoctrinated for the indoctrination to survive the atheistic wastelands…
…or so they thought.
Hey, at least she asked politely instead of having another supersonic freakout.
Maybe “most socialized” means most likely to obey a leader who’s dictates include free health care, not fighting taxes, giving everything you can spare to the poor and maybe some beyond that, and communal property?
….. no?
…… HUH.
The words “dictate free health care” ring a lot of bells but none I like to hear.
“Fight taxes” too. Though not all taxes are fair or evenly leavied (Astrid Lindgren wrote a humorous short story when she was annoyed with being taxed above what she found reasonable), but, you know,
no taxes=no roads without toll, no school without cost-recovering fees, no swimming pool with affordable pricing, no publicly funded research, no public health control, an army financed by looting, police financed by bribes only, …
I was…. going for the Jesus-comparison joke?
Additionally, the communal property thing is less Socialism and more Communionism.
Reltzik said “NOT fighting taxes…”, not “Fight taxes”
It read to me that not fighting taxes was supposed to be a bad thing.
Maybe I got lost in the negations? Not really a native speaker and I replied before being fully awake.
In case I misunderstood: Sorry.
The theory of political framing says that even obviously wrong connections get belived when repeated often enough and so I sometimes feel compelled to point out why an organized democratic state based on rule of law is a useful thing to have.
I like taxes. They buy me civilization.
Hear, hear!
Now, if only we could get something like a flat tax rate, applied equally across the board to everyone making over say the poverty line–or at least get the 10% and especially the 1% to just pay theirs as well as the rest of us… :/
God no. No damn Flat Taxes.
Unless you want your rate to go way up and the rich to pay far less.
More brackets and higher marginal rates on the top end.
WELL-APPLIED taxes buy us civilization, yes, and hurray for that.
Poorly-applied taxes buy us the means to destroy civilization because some politician wanted more obsolete tanks built in his district.
That’s not taxes. That’s spending. Cut the taxes and they’ll borrow money to build more obsolete tanks in the district.
Okay, point.
I get it! Good one!
the blood of christ has backwash in it
And crumbs from the little pieces of body everybody’s eating.
And a few beard/mustache hairs because of one or more of those random goers who would poorly last minute fix up their facial follicles.
Gotta’ tame that lion better guys.
If only we had an immune system.
Have we told them about the Kiss of Peace yet? The Pax?
The G-23 Paxilon Hydrochlorate that we added to the air processors?
Christ Joyce, I’m a raging atheist and even I can stay quiet and LOOK like I care when I get taken to church agaisnt my will.
As an atheist, you are better equipped to deal with differing beliefs than a fundie, you base your actions on rationality and science, a fundie bases theirs off of a faith that is their entire identitiy, you can go to a church and not have its teachings threaten your very sense of self, but for a fundie going to a different church does give that threat
As an /ADULT/ Joyce is perfectly equipted to NOT YELL IN CHURCH.
As someone whose social growth has been severely stunted by her upbrining she absolutely is not perfectly equipped.
My Social growth was severely stunted, I grew up in a near identical church situation, and even I knew not to yell “THIS IS WEIRD, OH MY GOD WHAT IS THAT!?” In a different church, cuz you don’t yell in church
And if you recall how every other member of her church has reacted to things from other religions then screaming and yelling about how they’re wrong is exactly what she’s been taught.
I used to be in a relationship with an atheist who was very much not how you describe atheists, more like how you describe fundies. Differences between individual people are, as a rule, a lot bigger than differences between categories of people.
Oh yeah there are atheists who are just as unbearable and smug as the worst kind of fundamentalist.
Well, some atheists are raging arseholes. But for the rest: if you believe all church services are empty ritual none of them seem really alarming. But Joyce may [have been brought up to] believe that some rituals are literally Satanic or insulting to God, and therefore truly dangerous.
Joyce very much wanted to go to church. Just one that was identical to her old church.
Heck, you don’t even have to look like you care at some churches, but I mentioned that on yesterday’s strip.
You don’t have to worry about the guy next to you being sick. You have to worry about the guy 3 people away from you because they turn the cup 1/4 turn each time
There is a lot more game theory to religious ceremony than could be expected.
Especially if you believe only about 100k are getting into heaven
For those interested, the gofundme for Jon Rosenberg’s son was funded sometime last night.
Yay!
I’m so glad! <3
Yay! Such a great country we live in! When a kid begs for a pain-free life on the Internet (because no universal health care), sometimes he’s successful!
https://medium.com/the-nib/love-to-live-in-the-capitalist-dystopian-hell-world-4d701d164818
50 bucks says that we will be privatizing lawyers in the near future.
If you can’t afford a lawyer you should’t get raped god dammit!
I dunno, this seems to be the de facto case already. Many public defenders are so overloaded and underpaid that it’s as if you don’t have a lawyer if you can’t afford a private attorney.
I wondered how she’d react to this. I can’t say I’m too surprised.
Side note: other people who’ve been to Catholic masses, did they give you wine along with those wafers? They never did that part in the Catholic churches that I’ve been to in the part of Virginia I’m from.
They did. You got the wine first and then the Wafer off to the side as you walked off.
Huh. Wonder why the ones I went to only did the wafers.
Depends on the church. Every one I ever went to was wafers first and wine off to the side, varying by church.
Some churches had large populations and so they only offered the wine at the really early masses with less people. But yeah, we did the nice long lines up the aisles, receive communion in your hand or upon your tongue (that one always weirded me out) cross yourself or step sideways and bow to the altar and then circle around back into your pew.
Having it put on my tongue grossed me out, too. They strongly discouraged having to put it in your hand, though I still insisted on doing it as such.
The idea behind putting it on your tongue is that you are not worthy of giving your self the body of Christ.
I don’t remember ever getting wine when I went to communion. If I remember correctly, only the pastor drank wine in my hometown. But it’s been ages so I may be mistaken.
Sometimes yes, sometimes no, depends on the Catholic church. The one I went to (in CT) growing up didn’t; they had a communion rail like is shown in the comic, and the priest and deacon served the host from the ceborium (bowl), with an altar boy holding a gold platen under your chin. My cousin’s church in upstate NY you stood in line, got a host from the priest/deacon, then walked over and drank from the chalice held by a congregant volunteer.
Catholic-raised Polish guy here. Nope, we only get wafers. The priest gets all the delicious wine.
Fun fact: at least in Mexico, catholics don’t get wine unless is their first communion or something (so yes we take a zip when we are las young as… 9), only comunion wafers either on pieces or in small circles. and you are not supposed to chew them.
It must vary by church because I remember they’d always offer wine at church when we’d go visit our relatives in Mexico.
Prior to Vatican II, it was the established practice of the Catholic Church to only offer communion in one kind to the congregation, reserving the wine for the clergy. This was one of the things early protestants/reformers had a problem with.
The thinking behind it is that each of the species transform into the fullness of Christ, so even if you only eat the bread, you receive body, blood, soul and divinity.
Vatican II opened for taking communion in both kinds to everyone, at the discretion of each bishop. Some bishops have given blanket permissions to give the congregations both kinds all the time, others are more restrictive.
Well, there’s no need to chew them since they’re… wafer thin, and they’ll dissolve in your mouth pretty quickly. But yeah, I remember the times I was in church and only the priest would get to sip from the wine. Rather stingy if you ask me.
It’s only a wafer-thin wafer!
My high school took us to a yearly mass, plus one special one for freshmen. Because these weren’t public masses, just ones for our high school, they gave us grape juice, but I’m told it was normally wine. The communion was like a circle puffed rice flat cookie. It didn’t taste like anything – I think it was compressed baking powder. I dunno if we were allowed to chew or not. I did, but I was later told by my friend I shouldn’t have taken it in the first place because I wasn’t confirmed. Whoops.
Freakout intensifies!
Oh, Joyce…
Taking the cup is really not that big a deal. They wipe it well, and at our church it’s 18%. You’ll be fine!
Wow, talk about being “moved by the spirit”…
36 proof more Christly than the leading alternative!
Whatever are you using? Port? Sherry?
Normale wine has much less alcohol and everybody else talked about watered down wine?
Some churches still make their own wine, so the % gets to liqueur levels.
The Catholic church near me gives out 38% wine, which I would argue isn’t wine anymore, but oh well at least it’s sterile.
No idea what the APV of the wine at my Episcopalian church is, but I do know that they wipe the rim of the cup with a cloth soaked in Everclear. lol
However, I still intinct (dip the bread in the wine), because I feel more comfortable doing that.
The fact that she didn’t go into a rant about how alcohol is the devil’s drink, and Jesus drank grape juice is a point in Joyce’s favour.
Back during the Badtimes Party, before it went Badtimes, she stated that she doesn’t see anything wrong with drinking alcohol once a person is of legal age, so her church probably isn’t inherently anti-alcohol
Now the strange thing to ME is the Father bringing the Wine and Wafers TO the worshippers. We always got out of the Pews into the center lane, top rows first of course, and then after getting the Blood circling around the pews to the flesh on the side to uniformly and neatly get back into the pews without conflict of accident.
I think they have filed up to the front and are kneeling at the rail.
And yet Joyce almost DE-RAILED the kneeling by railing against it.
*flees for dear punning life*
Rail? . . . .Right not a Catholic church, different lay out and traditions.
Many (but not all) Catholic parishes removed their altar-rails after Vatican II.
The altar-rails (or “chancel rails”) were originally installed to replace the earlier rood screens (or “choir screens”) either as a Protestant reform or (in Catholic churches) after the Council of Trent.
In the Catholic church I attended growing up, the building was built in the 1970s (after Vatican II), but the head priest was old-school enough that he had the church built with the communion rail.
Well I’m sure Jacob is real glad Joyce came along
Joyce stop being terrible, for fucks SAKE.
Her fundie programming is still being flushed. This is just another piece slowly being flushed (this may be a double or triple flusher, though, and a plunger should be kept handy).
This isn’t a matter of fundie flushing, she’s an adult, she KNOWS how to behave in public, yelling in church, stating to the guy who BROUGHT HER TO HIS CHURCH that his means of worship is weird, and YELLING during PRAYER?
All things she KNOWS not to do.
judging by the lack of scathing looks from background characters (wait have we even seen any besides the priest?), I’m assuming that the yelling is conveniently using comic logic, making it inaudible to everyone but the main characters. because, yeah, yelling in church just…. does not compute. (…unless it’s the church from Blues Brothers)
No, we’ve not seen any other people’s reactions, but she’s clearly yelling at the person sipping wine…and importantly, she’s shouting and making /Jacob/ Feel bad and foolish for thinking this grown woman could behave.
She’s freaking out because they’re all doing it ‘wrong’. It’s easy to let that override deliberate behavior.
She perhaps also “knows” that a lot of what they are doing is literally Satanic.
I gotta admit if you asked me to drink out of the same cup as dozens of strangers I’d be pretty weirded out too.
Yeah, this isn’t even “Joyce being weirded out by strange religious rituals”. This is “Joyce’s food hangups” kicking in.
That’s not how you spell “adorable”.
When she starts BEING adorable and not 5 years old, then I will call her as such.
A lapsed but still attentive Catholic myself, I have been weirded out at the few times I went to a non-denominational church.
The oddest thing was the joyously exuberant singing, which was so tiresome. I’m used to just point-blank hymns with piano accompaniment.
I realized that the last time Becky was at church, she was forced to wear an ugly pink dress and pink shoes. Now she is wearing her “butchest duds” of her own choice, at a church that considers her a valid human being. Becky is rad. Go Becky!!!
Go Becky indeed!
This reminds me of that Jesus Is Risen strip on Shortpacked!, where Lucy and Robin go back and forth saying it.
Huh, you’re right. Heck yeah! Go Becky!
joss stop talking to yourself
I am kind of hoping Becky quietly becomes an Episcopalian.
For the sake of entertainment (Meaning watching Joyce react to it) Becky should either become Luciferian or Anton Lavay Satanist. (neither is pro killing children just so we’re clear on that)
Off:
Hi folks, I’m gonna visit Los Angeles in a few weeks. Can you recomend things to see there? I’m not very interested in the movies-related stuff. I welcome recommendation for where to eat, too.
When we had a local friend show us around, he chose the Apple Pan and Canter’s Deli for food, and took us to Greystone Manor, then on a scenic drive around Laurel Canyon and Mulholland Drive and Griffith Park so you can really see a lot. We did drive past the Walk of Fame and Graumann’s Chinese Theater, but they were really crowded and we didn’t get out.
Leo’s tacos is the best food truck for an authentic SoCal taco experience. It’s super cheap and tasty too. There is a ton of stuff to do in LA depending on your interests. If you like museums the LACMA and Getty are good choices. For theme parks, there is Universal Studios and Six Flags. For nature, there is Griffith Park and its awesome observatory.
Hey welcome to my hometown! California Science Center is free and reachable by train, and really cool.
“The La Brea Tar Pits” means “the the tar tar pits”.
It also smells terrible.
It’s the pits.
Thank you all
I’m gonna definitely try the tacos, we’re planning on checking out mulholland drive, too. Since we are only going to spend 2 days and 3 nights, I want to aim for capturing the spirit of the city, experience the atmosphere as much as we can.
Kogi BBQ: http://kogibbq.com/
They have a place near Culver City and a bunch of Food Trucks that go to various places in the county. It’s basically Korean-Mexican fusion, tacos, burritos, quesadillas and the like, but with Kimchi, Bulgogi and other Korean ingredients.
If you’re willing to eat something that requires a knife and fork, I can’t recommend the Wet Burrito enough. It’s just to die for…
I love panel 2 Joyce. So cute
Panel 2 is the forever gravatar
Joyce is *frumple*. If this continues, *dancing* will ensue.
After reading the mouseover text, the first thing I did on coming to the comments page was look for any reference to this.
I know, right? Immediate thoughts were just like: “How many Zod jokes are already up?”
Someone should have warned Jacob that Joyce has germ-panic.
As far as I remember they used to circle the cup slightly so your lips do not touch the same place as the one of the person before you and hopefully the metal of the cup serves to kill off germs till you have a full round (like messing door handles used to kill of germs which you modern plastic ones don’t).
If your church givse communion with a common cup of wine, be nice to your fellow churchgoers and don’t participate when you have a cold or worse.
I forgot that Joyce was alcohol-phobic ever since the party where bad things happened.
Ryan used roofies, not booze. Joyce isn’t alcohol-phobic. She’s anti-drinking-while-under-age and probably mildly mysophobic, given her behavior in the showers.
Not to mention her various hangups with food – sharing in particular.
When we get to Halloween I want to know if Joyce separates M&Ms by color. Out of a bowl where they’re all touching.
Jacob is a champ. Becky is a mega-champ.
Hopefully this doesn’t ultimately upset Joyce too much.
Hey, that guy has the flu and looks like he is about to keel over dead.
You really gonna offer me that cup after you let him drink out of it?
Then, suddenly, Joyce is sweet again.
Just out of interest, I wonder how many times the vicar has been asked that question? I have a strong feeling that it is one of those ‘if I had a dollar…’ situations for him!
darnit, I keep meaning to play gravatar roulette with my regular comments, and then forgetting.
Kneel before Doz!
As an atheist, I know I don’t really get to have an opinion on the proper way to do rituals, but I’m with Joyce on the germs: everyone using the same cup is icky. Joyce’s church’s custom of using individual cups is clearly cleaner. However, I must side with the Episcopalians on the matter of wine: Jesus blessed the bread and wine at the Last Supper, so bread and wine it is (sensible exceptions may apply.)
Sensible exceptions? Not according to the Catholic Church. The bread must have SOME gluten to be bread, even if the person taking communion has Celiac’s.
….. hmm, how to do this without risking germ spread? Maybe take the bread and dip the end you haven’t touched into the wine.
Straws for everyone.
Dipping the bread in the wine is called intincture and is absolutely a thing people do. My rector explains it before every major holiday service for the newbies, so they know they don’t have to drink from the cup if they don’t want to.
Don’t forget the possibility of spit in the wine. It only takes one to ruin it for everyone else.
Eh, it’s not a BIG deal. Just be phlegmatic about it.
Brilliant. Simply brilliant.
Jacob’s couldn’t be more than composed if he were playing charades and he got “serene”.
It’s a hoot next to Joyce’s peripatetic expressions in this comic.
I’m 24 years old, today (38 days younger than the Power Rangers franchise, as I’ve grown fond of saying). I’m not getting any younger, and it feels like I should be deciding what career to start looking into. Maybe something to do with history and language…
The last seven years have, in all honesty, felt like they were mostly wasted. I’ve spent them mostly withdrawing from social interactions, outside of certain very-closed circles of friends, trying to get over depression, cope with the incessant bullying of the past, and coming to terms with my autism. I’ve met and lost friends and family, been abused and tormented by people I thought I could trust, and started a long-lasting romantic relationship.
That last part is the most lasting, significant change I’ve had since high school. My girlfriend has been the one constant for the past four years, even when people have tried to get between us. I lost my best friend twice because of this relationship, and I’m glad for it.
Which surprises me, because I had thought he was the one person who really had my back, even when I was being manipulated and abused by others. For the last year or so, there was even a running joke that I had two partners at once, because he’d become so jealous of other people I’d hang out with. Maybe not the nicest joke, but it helped me sort some things out anyway.
This is getting a little long-winded, even without getting into the time I spent living with a registered sex offender and other “fun” stories. I guess it’s because this is the only online community where I feel reasonably safe being open and honest, without trying to deflect the honesty into bad humor. Anyway, I’ll wrap this up for now, since it really has nothing to do with the comic, and it’s admittedly self-indulgent.
Don’t know what to say to all this, other than: all the best!
In retrospect, this comment feels kind of shallow. Feel free to ignore.
Honestly, I appreciate your initial comment. Not everything has to have a deeper meaning than “I wish good things for another person.”
Are you okay? Reach out to someone if you’re not. Even talking to one of those telephone counselling services can be a great help.
To me, “okay” is something I don’t put much stock into being. If that makes sense. My level of “okay-ness” fluctuates so frequently, on nearly a day-to-day (and sometimes even minute-to-minute) basis, that I’ve stopped actually caring whether or not I’m “okay”.
To try and clarify, if somebody asks me “How ya doin’?”, my most common response is “Oh, I’m doin’.”. I don’t really take the time to consider whether or not I’m “okay”. I just sort of “am”, if that makes any sense.
Of course, this is in no way meant to dismiss your concern, which I appreciate regardless, and thank you for it.
When people politely ask me how I am, as a formal greeting that is, and not as a genuine enquiry, I have two answers. When I am okay I answer “Can’t complain!” And when I am not okay I answer “Mustn’t grumble.”
Are you, by any chance, from the midwest?
*Hugs*
You’ve been one of the more supportive commenters, during my less-than-positive moments on this site. Thank you for that. It’s been very helpful, the kindness and understanding I’ve received from you, and I can only try to pay that forward in the future.
Broadened a bit, this also applies to nearly everyone I’ve interacted with on this site. We don’t always know whether we’ve helped someone, but I think everyone should know about at least one instance where something they’ve said or done has had a positive impact.
Thanks. We have a great community here, I think (thank you for your contribution to it), and if anyone gets any positive experience out of me blabbing about Becky I’m happy to oblige.
I’m a big fan of the concept of paying it forward, so congratulations in advance to whoever in the future crosses your path when they need it the most.
If it’s any consolation, I’m almost 47 and still trying to figure out what I want to be when I grow up, hah. Doesn’t help that the two employment paths I was taking forward at different times both got stepped away from when I started a family, and both are nigh-impossible to get back into again (especially from the area I’m currently in). And I’m not really qualified for much other than joe jobs–and really am not up to dealing with the general public, especially face-to-face, these days. Boo.
So what I’m doing, frankly, is going back to my childhood, and asking myself, what did I want to be when I grew up? Because I suspect that may be what in our hearts of hearts we really want to do; and these days, there are so many new ways to do things than when I was a kid that a childhood dream that may have seemed impossible back then may now be realistic.
At this point I’m indulging my crafty side, since I’m home unemployed at the moment anyways, and also trying to start up with my writing again (difficult due to some meds I’m on that kill plots, for some reason), because, hey, I always wanted to be a writer, and I’m decent at it, and thanks to self-publishing and Amazon, one can self-publish for free (try Lulu for that) and potentially make a pretty decent living if you can crank it out fast enough.
So why not become a porn-lord, I figure? Publish under a pseudonym and I haven’t got much to lose, do I? Just have to sit down and force myself to write.
So, anyways, rambling a bit but that’s my solution to my own “Gee, I guess I’d better start adulting at some point huh” issue; maybe it’ll be of help to you too.
Happy birthday; and I’m glad you’ve got a good relationship in your life!
I’m just some random person on the internet, but I don’t think you’ve been wasting your time. You’ve got some psychological things to work out, and you’ve been dealing with them. That’s important. And at your age? You’re at least a decade up on me getting a handle on your depression. I’m impressed and mildly jealous. Good for you!
A stable, healthy romantic relationship isn’t wasted time, either. And learning who you real friends and family are isn’t a waste. It’s painful, but it’s not a waste.
HAPPY BIRTHDAY Taffy. I have really enjoyed your comments, and it’s my sincere hug and hope that you will find yourself having wonderful years ahead.
happy birthday!
tbh, I assumed you’d be headed towards something technical, since programming, engineering etc tend to be more accommodating to people on the spectrum.
and hey, you’re still in your 20’s; I have a good friend who got his geology degree at, like, 30, and another who’s still trying to get the last few credits he needs at 31 (ah shit I need to get him a bday present still); getting a degree later isn’t all that unusual. heck, I went back to school too and… huh, I was only 26 when I graduated that school? time has been flying past since then…
anyways, uh, good luck
*hugs*
5/10 Alt. Text, misspelled Zod.
I’ve got to say that I’m getting genuinely concerned that Joyce is going to end up having some sort of panic attack here!
Are you afraid that her panic attack will make her catatonic, or are you afraid she’ll punch the priest? (Like she did with Toe dad)
I’m kind-of hoping for the second outcome because it would be funny.
I’m afraid that she’ll start acting out even more than she is already. You know, like standing in the middle of the nave, screaming something like: “Repent! Repent I tell you or you’ll all be DAMNED!” before collapsing or something.
I think Joyce is more the “silently screaming” type than the “REPENT! REPENT, YE SINNERS!” type. Today, the religious freak out has gone down to a wide-eyed “weird,” and her actual freak out is over germs, so she may be on the road to adjustment.
Imagine that, instead of this having been a Church, Joyce had accompanied someone to a Mosque or a Synagogue. How would this behavior look?
The fact Joyce doesn’t feel any compunction *at all* against so blatantly running her mouth about how moronic or weird she thinks this all is in the middle of a church service, shows more about how little regard she holds these Christians than any one thing she’s said *about* them.
As people have alluded, even atheists who give less than zero shits about religion would at least have some fundamental degree of respect for the people around them.
Maybe I’m projecting, but I’m really empathizing with how Becky seems to be mortified at Joyce’s behavior. I’m hoping this is a learning moment soon.
This makes me cringe too, but I suspect at least some of it’s exaggeration for dramatic effect. Willis doesn’t often use internal monologue, so he has to use dialogue where a monologue would work. I suspect from the lack of reaction from everyone else, that there’s some exaggeration for comedic effect going on.
To be fair, as someone raised an athiest by respectful parents, the first few times I was in any church, I was a complete ass at every turn. I didn’t want to be there and I wasn’t going to let anyone forget. (In hindsight, I regret ruining some people’s days, but I can’t undo it.)
…and that’s without Joyce’s history in a religion that goes out of their way to make its followers think that all other religions, no matter how slight the difference, are evil. I’d had, like, weird bullying conversion attempts when other kids found out I wasn’t any form of Christian(kids can be cruel), but that’s nothing compared to why Joyce is rude.
Anyway, point is she’s trying, and right now she’s immersed in something she was (wrongly) taught to fear. If she doesn’t apologize after this is over, then she’ll go down a peg in my book, but for now… she’s only human, and just getting this far is a big step for her.
(That said, I still want to shout at her to shut up to avoid hurting Jacob’s feelings any more than she already has.)
I mean, yeah, I guess that’s dickish behavior on your part. But it’s a bit more understandable because a) there was no percentage in it for you and b) you don’t share their value system at all. Like, what were people expecting.
In Joyce’s case, she’s getting…well…triggered by pews instead of folding chairs, no electric guitars, the fact Episcopalians refer to Communion by its classical name, and the fact *they use wine instead of grape juice in spite of the fact it hews closer to the literal text of the Bible*.
And I might be additionally biased, because not gonna lie, Joyce’s church sounds really fucking kitschy. I might be a nihilist, but I can totally jive with the Episcopalian aesthetic and respect for their classical heritage.
*atheist
Oh thank goodness someone else feels like this. I mean, it feels kind of out of my place as an atheist to say something like this, but I just find Joyce’s type of evangelical church to be desperately unaesthetic. There is so much cool art of every type in the Christian tradition! Why would you throw that out for secondhand versions of mainstream American culture?
I guess it’s all about what you grew up with…
I’m with this comment 100 percent.
Maybe if this were a mosque or synagogue Joyce would have expected differences. Here she’s gobsmacked with the “Protestants be we all” idea whipsawing with this near-Catholic experience.
Amazing to think that she’s seen past what her church taught her re atheism and lesbianism, and look at her two closest friends. If she can make that, she can make this. But it won’t be without stumbling.
I agree. If she went to a service of a completely different faith, she would have been prepared form unknown things. Here, she freaks out because she thinks she knows what to expect and gets confronted with her worst fears about other Christian denominations.
She will probably need a few days before she realizes how abominable she behaved.
She also wouldn’t have gone to such a service to participate, but to observe. She wouldn’t have been planning to take the equivalent of communion or whatever.
As a Methodist Protestant, we did the kneeling at the front thing, but used grape juice.
There was also a lot of singing, but no electric guitars. They’re pretty cool with lesbians, but don’t have a Jesus on their cross.
As someone who went to a different church’s service only once or twice in their lives, this story arc has been fascinating for me, even though I haven’t been to a service in about ten years. It sounds like my Methodist upbringing is kind of a middle ground between what Joyce and Jacob are used to?
As far as I know the bible dosn’t comment on lesbians, it’s guy on guy stuff that’s bad. (Correct me if I’m wrong please)
If memory serves it just does mention men laying with men, nothing about women. But it has been awhile since my high school religion class, there may be something I missed there, and most people will still interpret it as a blatant “gay = bad!!” statement, despite them taking everything else literally in the book.
Which is always why I have taken my father’s (who taught Bible History at a fanatically catholic school for several years) view on the bible, and that it is the best piece of historic fiction you will ever read.
I think it may be the worst piece of fiction I’ve ever read. There’s hardly any plot, the characterization is often weak, the dialogue is sparse and poorly written, its wordbuilding is hamhanded and yet vague, its timeline is unclear, there are massive detailed (boring) technical asides, and the main characters die and get rotated out faster than game of thrones.
I mean, sure, there are probably lots of truly awful books out there that have all these flaws as well, but I prefer to read good books. And the Good Book is definitely not a good book, as fiction books go.
Not in the Old Testament. In the New Testament, there’s Romans 1:26, which talks about women behaving unnaturally, and it is the only specific reference to female homosexuality in the Bible. (It was written by Paul. Of course it was.)
Not to defend the guy, but IIRC not all of the books traditionally attributed to Paul are believed to have actually been written/dictated by him. Can’t remember off the top of my head whether or not Romans was one of those, however.
Interestingly (not sure how widespread this is) some scholars interpret Ruth and Naomi from the book of Ruth as having a loving lesbian relationship, and that Ruth’s marriage to Boaz was right because it was the only way Ruth could gain safety and protection as a woman, yet it did not overshadow the love between Ruth and Naomi.
In this reading, the message is, “Marriage and family are political /social institutions, separate from romantic love. Loyal romantic love, even between two women, is close to God’s love. However, taking a wife you do not love romantically in order to protect her is honorable, and honors God.”
Which is sort of a weird message nowadays? I wish I could find the article I read about it; it was by a female rabbi. The gist was, committed love and doing right by someone are different things, but both honor God. She also made a compelling case, I think, that the love between Ruth and Naomi would be read as romantic at the time, rather than mother / daughter.
So…not “an abomination” but also pro straight marriage over same-sex marriage.
Yeah, Carol. Sign a form for Joyce to attend a “hippie church”. We are waiting.
The ironic thing is, from Joyce’s description, her denomination is actually closer to what I would consider a ‘hippie church’ than any mainstream group! I mean… Dancing ‘worship leaders’? Electric guitars?
Hippies are known to be seen shimmying, after all.
…full disclosure, I don’t know too much about churches of different dominations, hippies OR hippie churches, and I’m frankly a bit vague on shimmying as well, so don’t mind me. Just being silly over here.
My mom was a total beatnik yoot and a somewhat important leader in my church, so by default I attended a “hippie church” all my life. And let me tell you, we did far more than shimmy.
In fact, I would sing an unbidden harmony to every poppy rock-hymn, and after eight years my best friend finally didn’t get annoyed by that.
That’s awesome!
We did the kneeling at the front for a while in my Episcopal church years ago. Then during renovations to the church we started doing the traditional Catholic queue up plus cup thing. After renovations, it just stuck that way.
Something I’m wondering about because of this comic…
I went to a more liberal Lutheran church when I was younger (I found out, in the 90s, my pastor was pro-LGBT rights. In Kansas, and encouraged my mother to explore why she did not believe in the resurrection, so yeah, a really liberal pastor) which offered the choice of grape juice or wine for the Eucharist.
What do other Episcopal or Catholic churches do for parishioners who are abstinent? My father’s in Alcoholics Anonymous and I avoid alcohol like the plague, and both of us do not go to church. I know parishioners can pass on the Eucharist (I do at funerals, but that’s more awareness of what the church would want over myself), but what about parishioners that are devout? What do they do if they, like me, avoid all kinds of alcohol?
In the Catholic church, it’s the bread that’s the real focus of the ritual. Everyone who’s participating in Communion at all takes that, while about half of them just pass by the wine.
In catholic churches in Belgium they don’t even pass on the wine. The only one who drinks form it, is the priest, and possibly the onderpastoor, or in smaller congregations, the layperson helping with the service. The rest of the community just comes to to the front of the church, and gets a communion wafter.
Where I’m from (American midwest), most Episcopalian and Anglican churches have a non-alcohol option .
Pardon the language given the situation, but Jesus Christ.
Joyce, I might not believe in other denominations of Christianity but my own or other religions in it of themselves, but girl, you gotta have a modicum of respect for ’em. This is just blatantly rude and completely ridiculous.
Coexist girl, come on.
Everything she has been taught, from early childhood, is that “coexisting” and respecting other religions is evil.
She’s made remarkable progress, but it’s only been a couple of months.
And today’s freakout is actually more about her germaphobia and food hangups than anything else.
becky thats not how alcohol works
…don’t tell Joyce.
That avatar is so on point.
Joyce, please stop yelling in church. Manners don’t stop being a thing just because youre outside your comfort zone.
“Just relax and do what everyone else is doing.”
A phrase spoken at every cult gathering, ever. Also every drug scene, orgy, and most mass crimes such as riots and lynchings.
As well as to new or unfamiliar people at virtually all more-innocuous social events like community dinners, dance events, work parties, and religious rituals like that depicted here.
In fact, basically it seems to be the principle that all of human society, good and bad, runs on.
Right. You’ve just got to have your filter well tuned enough to realize when the thing you’re following along with is really a problem.
But not so highly tuned you freak out over innocuous things.
A skill Joyce has not developed.
@hallucigenia
THANK YOU.
This kind of phrasing (rhetoric?) I find really annoying in general. Like when people say, “Well, Hitler did _______” when it’s something pretty much all political leaders do, or is just a benign thing a lot of people do. I once saw someone write that it’s wrong to be vegetarian because Hitler was vegetarian, and I *still* cannot figure out if they were trolling or serious.
“Follow other people’s leads, don’t stress too much or over-think things, nobody’s judging you” are really helpful lessons that people learn in CBT if one has social anxiety. Picturing the worst case scenario (“but what if the party turns into a Lynch mob?!”) is actually an anxiety symptom called catastrophizing.
A therapist might help work through catastrophizing by coming up with a plan for worst case scenario events, while still maintaining emphasis on the relative safety of normal social events such as parties and church.
Joyce probably *does* feel like she is being judged (by God) for participating in these rituals, but perhaps fears being judged by her friends were she to simply opt-out. So, caught in the middle, she feels mounting panic. She (like many characters in this comic) could probably use some real therapy. I’ve been to therapy. It helped a lot.
When in Rome, do as the Romans do.
When in Corinthians, do as the Corinthians do, heh.
*cult survivor side eye*
Dang Joyce, how secluded were you? (O~O)
I thought communion was standardized to be with unleavened bread and [real] wine?
Haha, nope. Our Baptist Church also used little crackers and grape juice. My parents being deacons, I’d score the rest of the grape juice afterwards. It wasn’t until I attended a wedding at another church I saw this sort of service with real wine. (and also was scared I was breaking some sort of law).
Not to trumpet supposed self-sanitizing of a cup of wine, but there are supposed to be some records in existence of food-poisoning outbreaks on cruise ships that show a correlation between passenger drinking of wine and liquor and avoiding the food poisoning. Apparently beer doesn’t rate equally as protection.
Beer was far safer to drink than water in yea olde dark ages because the water was frequently contaminated due to the lack of knowledge about people pissing and shitting in it upstream, plus insects and bacteria, etc.
But part of the process for making beer involves a nice long boil, and that kills off all the things that would otherwise do a fair job at killing you. Saint Arnolf (sic) is a Saint in part because he once dipped the end of his crucifix in a vat of beer and ordered the town to drink only beer. Thus saving many lives.
Also, beer was made in various strengths. The beer you’d drink just to avoid water was called a ‘small beer’ and was very low in alcohol, being made from a second running of water through the barley mash after the first one had already extracted most of the fermentable sugars. So there was little issue with people drinking only beer and no water at all.
Joyce is trying she’s so adorable
(I’m assuming she’s whispering/speaking quietly and not actually yelling out loud, if only from the fact she’s not kicked out yet)
I’m kind of assuming so too. Or maybe Joyce’s home-church (whatever she thinks it is, Mr Brown apparently moved them around a lot) was loud enough that you could just throw a microtantrum and not interrupt the service.
Shes not trying very hard at all, shes acting like a petulant child. Just because its new and it doesn’t marry up to her world view doesn’t mean she gets to forget common decencies like basic politeness and manners.
Yeah.. If she had at least one nice thing to say between all the complaints or could at least restrain herself from immediately blurting out everything that’s wrong, it’d be one thing? But as it is, she’s just being very rude.
Agreed, all she has to do is keep her mouth shut but nope its like shes got no impulse control.
She’s kind of actively freaking out, because her upbringing taught her that this is what CHURCH OF SATAN looks like? Note how she’s still there, how she actually did follow Jacob to the front and is not refusing the wine, just asking a confused question.
If she has any good things to say, it’ll be later, after she’s done ABSOLUTELY FREAKING OUT
it’s the contrast between her questions and facial expressions (MAJOR FREAKOUT) and what she ends up doing (actually go through the whole thing) that shows, to me, that she is trying really hard
I’m not enjoying this storyline at all. As an ex-Catholic I feel surprised and angry at Joyce’s responses to this church and feel an increasing need to defend religion. That ain’t right but it’s the way I feel. I don’t usually feel that atheists are attacking me personally and I have no love for organised religion but damn. Might stop reading for a couple of weeks and return.
What happened to Discus btw, at least it was easy to log-in…
OK, I just have to ask: Where are you feeling that atheists are attacking you personally?
My bad. I meant that I didn’t feel that atheists were attacking me personally while I felt upset at Joyce’s attitude.
Ahh, OK. A moment of bad wording. Happens to the best of them, and to the rest of us as well.
I’m an ex-Catholic too fam AND a sheltered kid so I totally understand where Joyce is coming from. Joyce’s responses are perfectly normal for someone raised in the kind of environment she was. There’s a world of difference between highly-ritualized denominations that draw a lot from RC traditions (like Episcopalians) and the more freewheeling style of many other Protestant sects that Joyce is used to — and as sheltered as Joyce was, with her pre-existing bias against Catholicism (again part of her upbringing) she’s having strong cognitive dissonance issues right now.
Discus is an abomination to comment systems and should be disbanded immediately.
disqus? it does have the advantage of being able to block people.
good moderation is better than individual blocks in the case of trolls, but when you just can’t stand someone for personal reasons it’s nice to just dump them in the killfile
It also does at least allow one to track replies in one spot. I’m perfectly happy with the comment system here, though, if only because of Gravatar-roulette, ha ha.
I was raised in a fairly liberal Catholic way, which included a sense that, sure, the Protestants may be doing it “not as right” as the Catholics, but they are doing something good in the way they do church. We were all a part of “Team God.” So I was finding Joyce to be a bit annoying thus far.
But with this strip, I came to the realization that Joyce has a lot of strata of prejudice to dig through. She has been taught that there is *one way* to worship God, and all other ways are idolatry and are on the path to perdition. And she has had this drummed into her head for her entire life, and she is just now starting to get the tools to free herself.
It is well worth remember that she has gone to college to get her “MRS.” degree, or at least she started that way. This experience, despite her extreme reaction, is a vital first step towards a larger world.
And the look on her face in the last panel has so many adorbs, it might amount to “totes” and it triggers my “Awww, poor kid” reflex.
As someone who also grew up in the Catholic church I’ve been confronted with people who insisted that Catholics aren’t Christian. Even as an atheist that still pisses me off. But I also understand that it’s a set of beliefs very strongly ingrained through repeat reinforcement and training, and someone like Joyce who’s having a very painful breakaway from the shitty, abusive, cult-like environment she was raised in is going to struggle with the idea of accepting a form of belief that not a year prior she believed was idolatry.
It’s like, BARELY alcohol. I have all the tolerance of a much thinner person than me and I can handle church wine no probs.
Hahaha that second panel!
The last time my dad got married, the pastor-type person was talking to all of us ahead of time about the ceremony, which included communion.
I have never felt more at home with my aunts than when they were all whispering together at the beginning of the communion:
“Do you think they use one cup?” “If they do, I’m not participating.”
Ergh… THIRD panel
Dangit, Joyce! We can’t take you anywhere!
Joyce is definitely being rude and disruptive (I’m hoping the yelling is an exaggerated comedic effect, because otherwise, just…ugh), but I think it’s important to keep in mind that Joyce has likely been taught that not only are Catholics wrong and weird (and Episcopalian services are so like Catholic masses), but also evil.
Way back when, shortly after Joyce learned Dorothy was an atheist, we saw that she carried around Chick tracts. If you’ve never seen a Chick tract on Catholicism before, well, Are Roman Catholics Christians? is a good introduction to Chick’s bizarre conspiracies theories on Catholics and The Death Cookie is a taste of how hateful he can be, but even those are just scratching the surface.
If Joyce was exposed to his anti-Catholic tracts (and his hatred of Catholics slips into pretty much every tract) or if her church taught the same, then she’s been told that not only do Catholics worship Mary (who is secretly the demonic temptress Semiramis) and the Sun God Ra, but also that they started Islam, Mormonism, Masonry, the Jehovah’s Witnesses, that they killed Lincoln and Kennedy, that they started WWII and funded Hitler and Stalin, they organized the Holocaust, and they’re preparing for a second inquisition to slaughter all the Protestants. And that’s just a start.
Honestly, if Joyce has been taught all that, it’s quite a testament to her resolve that she hasn’t run away screaming.
Wait, people think that Catholics killed Kennedy even though he was also one of us?
Since when have people ever let facts get in the way of a good conspiracy theory?
This is the best sentence I’ve read all day.
The thinking is that the Vatican took Kennedy out because he refused to let them take control of the US or something.
I’m assuming she’s whisper-yelling: no voice in it but definitely a lot of feeling.
I mean, otherwise I’m pretty sure she’d be out the doors on her butt already
Yes, THIS particular varation of a ridiculously nonsensical ritual is weird, in comparison to the variation you’re personally familiar with.
In Ukrainian Byzantine churches they soak the bred cubes in the wine then drop it in your mouth. Imagine if Joyce had to deal with those shenanigans. Also the fact depending on the day whether we follow the pope or not.
Dammit, Willis.
Why does your favorite character poll not include Sayid?
I had this crisis of faith when attending a Methodist church after years of being a Baptist. I wasn’t sure what I was about to drink. (Spoiler, it was grape juice)