Dumbing of Age Book Twelve

Dumbing of Age

A college webcomic by David Willis
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all the wolves will have anime faces of course
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June 1, 2026

Turkeys

by David M Willis on October 7, 2019 at 12:01 am
  • 01 - Birthday Pursuit
└ Tags: malaya, mary

Discussion (237) ¬

[ Comments RSS ]
  1. Ana Chronistic
    Ana Chronistic
    October 7, 2019 at 12:05 am | #

    headcanon: Mary is drawing the same anime man being mauled by the same anime mans

    • Electriccombines
      Electriccombines
      October 7, 2019 at 12:17 am | #

      Only they all have wolf ears and tails, like catgirl style.

      • brionl
        brionl
        October 7, 2019 at 1:26 am | #

        But they have tiny mouths, so not all that much mauling.

      • 3oranges
        3oranges
        October 7, 2019 at 2:32 am | #

        Or they could be humans given the skeletal proportions of a wolf, Satoshi Kawasaki style.

        • Jade
          Jade
          October 7, 2019 at 3:13 am | #

          Why, oh why, did I decide to Google that? It’s like the Titans from Attack on Titan *shudder*

        • Tim
          Tim
          October 7, 2019 at 7:51 am | #

          Those are amazing

          • Sunny
            Sunny
            October 7, 2019 at 10:09 am | #

            Agreed. I particularly liked the human with the skeletal structure of a flamingo.

        • Kamino Neko
          Kamino Neko
          October 7, 2019 at 4:33 pm | #

          Yay, now I’ve got a name to attach to that art.

    • Dean
      Dean
      October 7, 2019 at 1:20 am | #

      It’s anime mans all the way down.

  2. BBCC
    BBCC
    October 7, 2019 at 12:06 am | #

    Damn, Malaya, when did you get edgelordy?

    • LeslieBean4shizzle
      LeslieBean4shizzle
      October 7, 2019 at 12:11 am | #

      Well, Malaya has implied that she doesn’t exactly feel comfortable in her own body before. This sounds like another run at that.

      Other than the “someone else’s memory of a face” thing – THAT is just pretentious.

      • James
        James
        October 7, 2019 at 12:17 am | #

        Pretentious but not incorrect.

      • Bunny
        Bunny
        October 7, 2019 at 12:17 am | #

        Its accurate though. Thats what youre doing when you copy an anime face.

        • LeslieBean4shizzle
          LeslieBean4shizzle
          October 7, 2019 at 12:29 am | #

          Is she copying an anime face, or is she making one up?
          I don’t see any anime/manga for her to copy there.
          If she’s creating new artwork in the anime style, then that isn’t “a memory” of someone else’s face – that’s just Mary’s personal style.

          Also… I just defended Mary. I feel dirty. **shivers**

          • LeslieBean4shizzle
            LeslieBean4shizzle
            October 7, 2019 at 12:31 am | #

            (to add some evidence to this, haven’t we seen Mary create many other anime characters in the dorm, including some based on actual people there? – I’m too lazy to look it up, but I seem to remember some little chibi drawings of her dorm mates at one point. If so – that’s original art work, not a copy)

          • Angie
            Angie
            October 7, 2019 at 12:56 am | #

            I’m going to do a bad job explaining this but I’m gonna try my best

            just because you’re drawing an anime face that you’ve made up yourself doesn’t mean you’re not drawing a face how someone else remembers a face. the idea is that instead of doing proper life studies to learn the anatomy of a face, then using that knowledge to stylize a face into something anime, she instead refuses to look at real life for her basis and instead only draws from knowledge of other anime styles.

            that approach can have kind of an “insestuous” effect on your art. it takes the flaws of the artists you copy from and amplifies them, because you don’t have that base knowledge of real life anatomy to correct yourself with. ideally what any artist who seriously wants to go into art as a career would do is have a strong real life base while taking inspiration from many different artists with a variety of styles, even if you do just want to draw anime. Mary is caught up in a common pitfall of “I’m only interested in drawing anime so I will only draw anime”, which is fine if art is just a hobby, but not the greatest for an art class.

            • Terry
              Terry
              October 7, 2019 at 1:50 am | #

              Very well put! And I agree with you completely. She is skipping the basics. Anime cartoons and even the characters in a single cartoon have a distinct difference in styles and features that set them apart from each other. If Mary is doing what you and Willis are implying, all of the people she draws probably have very similar looks to them. I’m inclined to believe this is the case since her current piece of art is slim while Malaya’s is more pudgy. Based on the teacher’s reaction, Malaya’s is probably the more accurate. If Mary was truly trying to convert what she is seeing into anime style, she should have made her drawing huskier. There are plenty of larger anime characters in existence, so it isn’t forbidden by the style. Instead, she is simply drawing a generic anime character with the correct hair style (maybe), hair color, skin color, and eye color.

              • LeslieBean4shizzle
                LeslieBean4shizzle
                October 7, 2019 at 9:07 am | #

                Counterpoint:
                I am no drawy person, but I did go through something similar.

                I love romance novels and all their derivations (such as romance manga).
                I particularly love fantasy romance novels (ie romance + magic).

                Throughout highschool, undergrad, and (while less so) even occasionally in grad school, I had teachers – FUCKING TEACHERS – shitting on my writing because it was romance-related and telling me to get with that pretentious Iowa Writers crap.

                And no, I was not just ‘parroting’ things back – I was deconstructing the genre and reconstructing it based on my own personal experiences. I was learning and developing a style while engaging with the genre that I love and care about most.

                And I got treated to assholes like Malaya telling me how derivative and shit everything I wrote was not because of the quality of the writing but because of the genre I enjoyed writing in.

                Can I write in other genres? Sure. But it’s BORING. I don’t like it. So whenever possible, I wrote fantasy romance (high, urban, historic – they’re all good).

                I didn’t get any positive feedback from teachers until college, and even then only from one teacher, and only half-hearted because while she was okay with the fantasy elements, she still didn’t like the romance bent and tried to steer me away from it.

                In gradschool, I finally met two more open-minded professors (one of whom introduced me to actual published LGBT romance novels, something I’d never seen before). But that was a long damn time of people being shitty to me.

                And now I’m a published LGBT romance novelist and a professor of English, so –
                **flips double birds at every teacher who shat on me**

                Anyway, my point is that just because someone embraces a style does not mean that they aren’t using their experiences (such as a nude model) to hone and improve their ability. Again, I’m not a drawy person, so it IS possible that I’m missing some nuance here, but both Malaya and Mary had drawings in the same pose. It seemed to me that Mary was drawing the model – just in her own way.

                I also want to point out that Malaya is NOT a reliable critic. Her entire characterization to this point is projecting her own insecurities onto others – ie calling Sal a “fake” when it is actually Malaya who feels like a fake. He critique of Mary may be just the same – not at all about Mary or her drawings but about Malaya and her issues with feeling disconnected from her own body.

                Anyway, I’ve explained my own visceral reaction to this, so I’m gonna bail now. I don’t much like defending Mary, but in this, I feel for her. And I wish that my teachers had been half as supportive of me as hers is to her.

                • Sunny
                  Sunny
                  October 7, 2019 at 10:37 am | #

                  I think if you want to put Mary’s and Malaya’s drawings in writing terms, then Malaya knows more and more different words than Mary and can put them together in more, and more interesting, ways. Hers might not be as refined since Mary has been writing for longer, but Mary has a certain repertoire of words and expressions and keeps putting them together in the same patterns over and over.

                  Going back to the drawings from last strip. Mary has put nearly no effort into the body, it’s just some flat lines and a bit of shadow on the neck. She instead focused on the idealized anime face (complete with blush and everything). Also, she has chopped off the fingers and is ignoring whatever the model is leaning his hand on.
                  Malaya hasn’t even tried to draw the face beyond determining where the nose is pointing and where the ear is. She has put a lot of shadows on the body giving it depth and volume. She also has a lot more lines than Mary. She has drawn thin lines that weren’t quite right but close enough, then gone back and drawn thicker lines in better places.
                  In writing terms, Malaya first writes a draft, then goes back and starts changing things and making them closer to where she wants it to be. Mary has one style of writing and just hammers it out never changing anything.

                • Angie
                  Angie
                  October 7, 2019 at 10:49 am | #

                  I’m extremely not a writer so my perspective on your point might not be the most insightful, this is just what I’ve picked up from people I follow who talk about writing.

                  my understanding is that romance tends to be frowned upon because of stereotypes like “it’s all fluff”, “it’s easy and anybody can do it”, “it’s basically porn for women” when that is far from the truth. there’s nothing wrong with writing romance and there’s nothing wrong with drawing anime. both anime style art and romance novels can be extremely well executed, and they aren’t inherently worse than any other genre/style.

                  what Mary is doing though is less similar to writing in a genre that has negative stereotypes attached to it, and more similar to refusing to learn things like metaphor, symbolism or how to make a piece thematically coherent. the purpose of life studies is to practice your basics so you can apply them to your art later. they’re not really meant to be fun or a way to express yourself, they’re the boring practice stuff you gotta do to improve your skills. even just the artwork shown in the last strip, you can see that Mary’s art is a lot more stiff, like a drawing of a plastic doll. the character doesn’t have any weight to it, which is something she would be able to learn and improve on through doing her life studies properly. then when she drew anime boys later, they would look a lot more life-like.

                  of course it’s 1000% true that there are art professors that will poopoo anime styles no matter what, even if the art is for personal enjoyment and is excellent on a technical level. that’s always super lame when you get a professor like that, but that’s not what’s happening here. if she was handing in an assignment that met all of the criteria and also happened to be in an anime style, that would be a different story.

                  but yes I’ll leave it at this too, I don’t wanna drag it out either

                • Doki
                  Doki
                  October 7, 2019 at 8:54 pm | #

                  Yo, I just wanna say that it’s really awesome you’re a published author of LGBT stories. That’s super awesome and fuck every professor who didn’t give your work a chance because of that. Thank you so much for sticking with it, the world needs more of what you’re putting out there. I only recently discovered that there are actually a decently large variety of publisehd works out there about people like me and, not gonna lie, I cried a little in relief after a childhood filled with characters who were (assumed to be) cishet.

                  However, as someone who is very much both a visual artist AND a writer, Angie is 100% on the nose. Mary isn’t just drawing art with an anime bent, from what we’ve been shown she consistently draws anime art BADLY. There’s a huge difference there that, as someone who also once drew stiff and visually uninspired anime art too, I can see. She’s not in control of her stylization, she’s a slave to it, as I once was. That’s pretty different from you being genre-savvy and completely cognizant of what writing ‘rules’ you were breaking. Stylization isn’t the same as genre choice, it really is much closer to figuring out how to effectively use metaphors/similes. (Thank you again to Angie for making that comparison! It really is perfect. Drawing really is all about figuring out what visual metaphors are the best for communicating the subject matter to your audience.)

                  I don’t want you to feel any pressure to respond to this, though, I see and respect why you’re upset and drained by this conversation. I’ve seen plenty of people who shit on anime art without even considering that it could possibly be good – and some of my absolute favorite art ever is by someone whose stuff is unquestionably anime-styled, so it totally bothers me too! ;~; ‘Anime’ should not be used as a catch-all for bad art/media, but it often is. Not to mention that, uh, the vast majority of my characters are LGBT, so I get the struggles you’re talking about too (though my writing partner and I aren’t published, so we haven’t had to fight publishers yet directly haha). But, while Malaya may not be the most unbiased messenger… what she’s saying is painfully #relatable as an artist who went from hobbyist to more serious halfway through learning art.

                  Again, no pressure to respond, I don’t want to draw this out if you’re not feeling up to it. I just wanted to add the perspective of someone who actually does both drawing and writing, since no one else had yet in this thread.

        • abysswatcher1993
          abysswatcher1993
          October 7, 2019 at 12:41 am | #

          I may hate Mary, but I have been taking offense to everything Malaya has been saying for personal reasons. We are people, even if she reduces people to meat and bones like a Rick Sanchez edgelord. Even if Mary is not drawing realisticaly for the purpose of the class, I am highly triggered when other people accuse artists of drawing “anime style”. There are like hundreds of difefrent styles in anime, so I am horrible pissed when I hear comments like that.

          • John Smith
            John Smith
            October 7, 2019 at 1:34 am | #

            Hah, that’s funny. This is maybe the first thing Malaya has said that doesn’t make me hate her. People are important, but we’re still just minds in meat suits. That’s not “edgy,” it’s just basic materialism.

            As for the art, get over yourself. I enjoy “anime” styles as much as anybody (spent the evening watching some, as a matter of fact) but what Mary is doing is textbook bad art practice. She’s not drawing the model, she’s drawing her internalized style. That’s exactly what you’re NOT supposed to be doing when learning to draw, and is a well-known impediment to getting better as an artist. That she doesn’t recognize that she’s doing it is a major flaw. Nobody cares who’s style she’s copying, that’s no the point.

            • Kabo
              Kabo
              October 7, 2019 at 1:37 am | #

              But she’s not saying that people are minds in meat suits. She’s saying we’re notpeople but minds in meat suits.

              • Positron
                Positron
                October 7, 2019 at 11:41 pm | #

                This is semantics. Her point is that while we think of a person by their physical form the actual entity that does all the experiencing of the world is the mind that’s currently occupying that body. There’s nothing particularly special or unique about any single person’s body, but their mind is a conscious entity capable of experience. She’s not denigrating people by acting like they’re worthless pieces of meat, she’s emphasising the mind over the physical vessel it happens to be carried by.

            • wwwhhattt
              wwwhhattt
              October 7, 2019 at 7:34 am | #

              minds in meat suits isn‘t materialism though, it’s dualism.For materialism the meat suit is all there is, even if it can think

              • Clif
                Clif
                October 7, 2019 at 12:56 pm | #

                The minds are meat. The software isn’t.

          • Doki
            Doki
            October 7, 2019 at 4:28 am | #

            I agree with you (regarding ‘anime style’ not being a monolith)… and also, unfortunately, have to disagree with you. I’m a huge proponent of artists drawing in whatever styles make them happy, so it really does pain me to say this! But…

            As someone who, like Mary, started drawing with an anime-inspired bent, it’s been hard to unlearn those habits over the years. Thankfully I’ve been using photo references for the better part of ten years, so I’ve begun to take my art in a direction I feel is more nuanced than the art I poorly imitated as a kid, but… it’s still a struggle I’ve seen those who studied anatomy earlier bypass. I wish I’d learned to observe BEFORE actually jumping into drawing too much. Learning to draw and learning to see are two completely different skill sets.

            To me, it’s definitely not about singling out anime as somehow lesser art – some of my favorite art is that of Shigenori Soejima, whose work for the Persona games would be unquestioningly recognized as anime. I also tend to strongly prefer at least slightly stylized art, so I’m not a snob who only likes realism (quite the opposite, I find most extremely realistic art pretty boring LOL). But when you do nothing but uncritically parrot another artist’s style, you aren’t learning WHY they stylized it a certain way. If you haven’t studied a variety of actual noses, and instead just copy specific angles of highly stylized noses, your ability to draw a more realistic nose if you ever do need to suffers.

            And maybe you’ll never need to! It’s true that you can be a professional artist and not be very versatile. Or have a solid grasp on anatomy. But I think that’s what Malaya is getting at here, though of course in her characteristically antagonistic way: Malaya is actually analyzing what she’s given and mentally synthesizing it into something based on the source, while Mary is drawing the IDEA of a person. You can be incredibly successful as an artist by following that method, but I totally understand why Malaya is bringing up that critique in this environment specifically. Any other time, I’d agree it was rude, but… they’re in a class, ostensibly to learn.

            I know a lot of art teachers have an inherent bias toward anime (but not American comics), and it sucks! I get it. :C But back when my drawings had an obvious anime inspiration, I had a figure drawing teacher who acted like theirs, and it didn’t help me grow as an artist at all.

        • Nymphie
          Nymphie
          October 7, 2019 at 1:20 am | #

          It’s really what you do any time you practice drawing by drawing from a stylistic source instead of lifedrawing, regardless if it’s from a CGI series, a video game, an anime or a Disney movie.

          If someone would practice drawing faces from these comics, they would essentially draw Willis’ memory of what a face looks like, not truly what a face looks like according to their own analysis.

      • BBCC
        BBCC
        October 7, 2019 at 12:55 am | #

        Ooooh, nice catch! I hadn’t considered that angle.

      • Terry
        Terry
        October 7, 2019 at 2:01 am | #

        Hmm. I’m noticing that a lot of people are pointing out a possible body dysphoria based on this comment. But she is absolutely correct from a life-model standpoint. Mary is drawing an idea of a person. Instead, she should be looking at the form in front of her. The point of a life model is to give artists a chance to see how the body is put together. To really be able to analyse it appropriately, you need to divorce yourself from preconceived notions and just draw what’s there. Look at the person in front of you, not as a person, but a sculpture of meat and bone. Then, you copy the lines of the sculpture.
        If Mary has never drawn a turkey before, she would have to first find the form of what it is, then, once she has a good understanding of what makes a turkey what it is, convert it to an anime style. This would probably involve softening some lines and creating some new angles, but if it’s successful, it would be recognizable as both a turkey and an anime art style. It would probably be a great exercise to help Mary improve.

    • Durandal_1707
      Durandal_1707
      October 7, 2019 at 1:15 am | #

      Damn, birds, when did you start flying?

      Damn, dogs, when did you start barking?

      Damn, cats, when did you start taking over the internet?

      • Clif
        Clif
        October 7, 2019 at 12:58 pm | #

        It’s the Internet; who can tell?

    • DSL
      DSL
      October 7, 2019 at 3:24 am | #

      There’s an accuracy (not to mention substance) to Malaya’s comment that your average edgelord lacks.

    • Arianod
      Arianod
      October 7, 2019 at 3:28 am | #

      In the placenta, probably.

    • Zee
      Zee
      October 7, 2019 at 9:20 am | #

      When was she ever not edgelordy?

  3. Stephen Bierce
    Stephen Bierce
    October 7, 2019 at 12:07 am | #

    “The wolf was only trying to help!”–DUE SOUTH

    • ValdVin
      ValdVin
      October 7, 2019 at 12:07 am | #

      Do you have a wolf license for it?

    • Luxshine
      Luxshine
      October 7, 2019 at 12:12 am | #

      In all fairness, the wolf is deaf. So he might have misread the instructions.

    • He Who Abides
      He Who Abides
      October 7, 2019 at 4:56 am | #

      Oh. My. God.

      I thought I made up Due South! I was all set to pitch it to a network and everything! Bless you, kind human!

  4. LeslieBean4shizzle
    LeslieBean4shizzle
    October 7, 2019 at 12:07 am | #

    Welp, that’s some Grade A body dysphoria right there.

    • Sporky
      Sporky
      October 7, 2019 at 12:16 am | #

      Is it? I thought it was more like philosophical physicalism.

      • jeffepp
        jeffepp
        October 7, 2019 at 12:24 am | #

        More of a sexual fetish?

      • LeslieBean4shizzle
        LeslieBean4shizzle
        October 7, 2019 at 12:25 am | #

        She is talking about the mind and body being entirely separate – about her mind puppeting a meat-sack, effectively. That implies both that she feels entirely separate from her body and that she assumes others feel as she does.

        Combine this with the “Sal’s a faker – wait I’m also a faker” stuff from earlier and my read some serious body dysphoria.

        Also, for reference, I may be using the wrong medical term. Not a doctor. I was taking the term “gender dysphora” – ie, feeling like you are in the wrong body – and extrapolating “body dysphora” – ie, feeling disconnected from one’s body. There may be a more correct term, so sorry if that caused confusion.

        • Sporky
          Sporky
          October 7, 2019 at 12:30 am | #

          I guess you’re right. What I was getting at is that part of what she’s saying is that people are minds and bodies, and there’s no such thing as a soul. Which I agree with, so maybe I just read it that way because it’s part of my worldview.

        • Knayt
          Knayt
          October 7, 2019 at 3:13 am | #

          There’s some dualism beyond the typical materialist position (the mind being housed in the brain which is also meat), but the general position of a brain being the more central component of self with the body a glorified meat vehicle? That’s pretty standard, and hardly edgy.

          Plus, in the context of a figure drawing class the actual particulars of meat vehicle construction are pretty important to learning the basics of art. Stylization in any style is generally best added afterwards.

    • Nymphie
      Nymphie
      October 7, 2019 at 12:17 am | #

      It sounds more like depersonalization to me, but could have been developed due to body dysphoria

    • chris2315
      chris2315
      October 7, 2019 at 12:17 am | #

      Jesus Christ, yeah. That’s dissociation. She thinks it’s normal for people to feel like their bodies aren’t really a part of their identity.

      • LeslieBean4shizzle
        LeslieBean4shizzle
        October 7, 2019 at 12:27 am | #

        Ah – looks like some people already came up with more correct terms while I was typing that massive explanation.

        • Clif
          Clif
          October 7, 2019 at 1:33 pm | #

          I’m perfectly at home in my body, but I don’t think my body is really part of my identity. I remember when I was drafted towards the end of the Vietnam war and one of the first things they did was to give us a close haircut. For some of my long-haired friends it changed their conception of who they were. I didn’t understand that, and I still don’t. I’m me. Cut my hair off or grow it long and then put me in pigtails, whatever, it’s not going to change who I am. Put me in a body of the other sex and it may take me awhile to adjust to the new plumbing, but otherwise my identify is not changing a great deal. My body is not me. I’m used to my body and comfortable with it, though not happy about the fact that after 70 years it’s starting to wear out a little around the edges. Give me a chance to trade it in on a new model without harming someone (say by evicting them) and I’m definitely considering it. I don’t think minds piloting carcasses is all that we are, but otherwise, she’s not wrong. This isn’t Malaya being edgelordy, this is Malaya being helpful, albeit Malaya-style.

  5. PHNX
    PHNX
    October 7, 2019 at 12:07 am | #

    In the immortal words of RUN-DMC (by way of The Monkees):
    “Mary, Mary, Why ya buggin’?!”

  6. foamy
    foamy
    October 7, 2019 at 12:07 am | #

    I wouldn’t mind seeing the picture described by the alt-text.

    • Doctor_Who
      Doctor_Who
      October 7, 2019 at 12:21 am | #

      We need to make “anime man wolves” the character in this month’s Patreon strip.

    • Marsh Maryrose
      Marsh Maryrose
      October 7, 2019 at 12:38 am | #

      Mary does her best work in the service of spite.

  7. Kyrik Michalowski
    Kyrik Michalowski
    October 7, 2019 at 12:08 am | #

    I honestly have no idea if Malaya is giving out good advice, spouting nonsense or just being an edgelord but if it pisses of Mary I’m all for it.

    • Mra
      Mra
      October 7, 2019 at 12:14 am | #

      She is giving legitimate advice, but her motives are probably just to be an edgelord and burst Mary’s bubble

    • Nymphie
      Nymphie
      October 7, 2019 at 12:25 am | #

      Only actual advice she’s giving here is that Mary is caught up in what she think human’s look like, which has been 18 years of seeing an object without analyzing it so you have some vague idea of the shapes without understanding the construction, and her drawing relies on everybody else also seeing these generic shapes and shortcuts to understand that it’s a human body they’re looking at.

      But I don’t actually think Malaya understands herself that that was useful, her personal philosophy regarding bodies just happens to put her in a mindset that lets her advance at a faster rate in art because she doesn’t have a lot of bad habits to unlearn.

    • FairyGothMama
      FairyGothMama
      October 7, 2019 at 2:00 pm | #

      Her attitude is edgelordy and unhelpful. But she’s not wrong. To draw the human body well, you need to break it down and understand how it all goes together. You get much more realistic poses and proportions when you understand the skeleton and how the muscles overlay it and move, and how the skin behaves and where fat commonly distributes and, where applicable, how breasts actually look and move. It’s not uncommon to be assigned a series of studies of single body parts.

      So Malaya’s not wrong. She’s just a jerk.

  8. Nymphie
    Nymphie
    October 7, 2019 at 12:08 am | #

    “You draw someone else’s memory of a face” is the sickest art-related burn I’ve heard

    • James
      James
      October 7, 2019 at 12:09 am | #

      Right? That’s the kind of crit that’d make some people run crying and throw their sketchbook in the trash, there.

    • Bathymetheus
      Bathymetheus
      October 7, 2019 at 12:19 am | #

      I agree. She may not be correct as to Mary’s internal process, but she’s obviously given it some thought, and has some insight. She has depths that have not been apparent before.

  9. Dark
    Dark
    October 7, 2019 at 12:09 am | #

    Careful, Malaya. You might end up cutting yourself on all that edge.

    • LeslieBean4shizzle
      LeslieBean4shizzle
      October 7, 2019 at 12:14 am | #

      I would make a snarky comment about manga being literature, but it cuts too close to the actual comic.
      Ah well.
      Tea and cupcakes anyone?

      • Mra
        Mra
        October 7, 2019 at 12:15 am | #

        I am still wondering what anime’s Mary’s hyper Christian Parents let her watch

        • Sporky
          Sporky
          October 7, 2019 at 12:17 am | #

          This implies that they know she watches it

        • Lacuna
          Lacuna
          October 7, 2019 at 12:20 am | #

          Superbook’s the obvious answer. Pokemon and Miyazaki movies are probably a safe bet.

          Fruits Basket? Bleach? Fullmetal Alchemist? I’m just spitballing here.

          (I could see Mary watching the stuff her parents wouldn’t approve of, but being all hypocritical about it.)

          • Doctor_Who
            Doctor_Who
            October 7, 2019 at 12:25 am | #

            Miyazaki, that hippie?! With all his pacifism and environmentalism and movies about spirits and things?!

            Actually, I kinda wonder if Mary’s parents aren’t super chill, and she’s the only right-winger in the family, sorta like Alex in Family Ties. Only worse because she’s Mary instead of Michael J Fox.

            • Marsh Maryrose
              Marsh Maryrose
              October 7, 2019 at 12:47 am | #

              Could be. My mother had a friend who raised her daughter non-religiously. At 14, that daughter converted to an ultra traditionalist (Vatican II rejecting) Catholic faith.

              That’s when my no-longer-religious mother decided to raise us as Unitarians.

            • Jamie
              Jamie
              October 7, 2019 at 1:29 am | #

              When I went through my fundamentalist phase, it wasn’t my parents’ fault. It wasn’t even my church’s fault. I was just taking the bones of what their beliefs were built on and pushing them to an extreme conclusion. There were plenty of people in my orbit that encouraged and enabled it, but it didn’t come from any kind of indoctrination. (That’s part of why it was so easy for me to leave that phase; it was my choice to go down that road, so it was my choice to leave it. I decided that I cared about people more than I cared about feeling intellectually superior about eschatology. Look, I was a teenager.)

            • Zatar
              Zatar
              October 7, 2019 at 1:48 am | #

              I feel like Willis said that this was the case a few years ago.

              • thejeff
                thejeff
                October 7, 2019 at 8:17 am | #

                Something to that effect.

                Likely religious, but “super chill” by the standards of Joyce’s family.

        • King Daniel
          King Daniel
          October 7, 2019 at 12:26 am | #

          Willis might’ve changed his mind (I know he has in the past regarding the subject of whether this universe’s Amber has half-siblings), but I believe he’s mentioned before that Mary’s parents are good people – and that Mary is just the sort of person who took all the wrong lessons to heart.

          • StClair
            StClair
            October 7, 2019 at 12:47 am | #

            the true Anti-Joyce.

          • Zatar
            Zatar
            October 7, 2019 at 1:50 am | #

            And this is why you should read all the comments to make sure someone else hasn’t already said the same thing your saying but better. Oops.

        • Norah
          Norah
          October 7, 2019 at 1:14 am | #

          Do we know that Mary’s parents were as strict as Joyce’s?

          • Norah
            Norah
            October 7, 2019 at 1:15 am | #

            Oops, I didn’t read all the comments when I typed that. Sorry.

  10. Sporky
    Sporky
    October 7, 2019 at 12:10 am | #

    Of all the places I thought this would go, a theological debate is not one of them.

    • Reltzik
      Reltzik
      October 7, 2019 at 12:14 am | #

      It’s Mary. A potential theological debate is just one inevitable and centi-hourly religious dump away.

      • Marsh Maryrose
        Marsh Maryrose
        October 7, 2019 at 12:50 am | #

        Assertion of dogma, absolutely. Actual theological debate? I don’t think Mary has that concept within her.

        • DSL
          DSL
          October 7, 2019 at 3:28 am | #

          Mary’s concept of theological debate is: “You are going to Hell.”

  11. Bathymetheus
    Bathymetheus
    October 7, 2019 at 12:10 am | #

    She is of course absolutely correct. People who believe humans are made in the image of god tend to forget (or actively dismiss the idea) that we are still animals.

    We ignore that reality at our peril.

    • chris2315
      chris2315
      October 7, 2019 at 12:19 am | #

      And Mary thinks that the image of God is an anime bishōnen.

      • Bathymetheus
        Bathymetheus
        October 7, 2019 at 12:23 am | #

        What a ghastly idea. Please go sit in a corner.

        I’m not saying you’re wrong, though.

      • ValdVin
        ValdVin
        October 7, 2019 at 12:28 am | #

        If God is so bishie, where is his sparkle?

        I’m really imagining Mary’s drawing yesterday as half of the Sistine Chapel’s “Two Masculine Guys Touching Fingers”.

        • drs
          drs
          October 7, 2019 at 1:59 am | #

          > If God is so bishie, where is his sparkle?

          Halo.

        • Sunny
          Sunny
          October 7, 2019 at 10:48 am | #

          Rainbows!

      • Bill M.
        Bill M.
        October 7, 2019 at 9:07 am | #

        Hmm… that means that she probably has the same Manga Bible (New Living Translation) I have then. I never could reconcile a bishounen Jesus and Isaiah 53’s prophecy.

        • Sunny
          Sunny
          October 7, 2019 at 10:50 am | #

          I am not surprised that exists, but I am still amazed.

    • abysswatcher1993
      abysswatcher1993
      October 7, 2019 at 12:50 am | #

      I disagree with Malaya, unless she is expressing body dysphoria. People aren’t the image of a god, nor anime characters, but they are more than the atoms of their bodies. They have feeling, memories, families, friends, enemies, talents, likes, dislikes, personalities, perceptions, dreams, hopes, fears, love, etc. Shallow materialism cant reach all those experiences, and that is why Edward and Alphose failed to recreate their mother.

      • Jamie
        Jamie
        October 7, 2019 at 1:15 am | #

        Yeah, but they had no problem with having their mother as a portrait lying around.

      • drs
        drs
        October 7, 2019 at 2:00 am | #

        All that would be part of ‘mind’. She didn’t say just atoms, she said “minds piloting upright carcasses”.

  12. Moon
    Moon
    October 7, 2019 at 12:10 am | #

    Sorry but what the fuck are they saying? o_o I don’t understand

    • James
      James
      October 7, 2019 at 12:20 am | #

      A rough translation:

      “You’re not drawing what’s actually there, you’re just slapping a How To Draw Animu face onto a shitty model sketch. Also religion is fake.”

      “Go step on a lego.”

    • BarerMender
      BarerMender
      October 7, 2019 at 12:23 am | #

      It was French. I don’t understand French.

    • Reltzik
      Reltzik
      October 7, 2019 at 12:23 am | #

      Well, let’s see.

      On Reading #1, Malaya’s criticizing Mary’s art style. Malaya says that Mary should look at human bodies and see meat (muscle, skin, bones, etc) and draw that, rather than seeing and drawing people, as a way to produce more realistic renderings. Malaya says that Mary’s just copying someone else’s art style rather than making her own art. Mary counters by seeing Malaya as meat for wolves.

      On Reading #2, Mary suggests an original-sin concept of moral evil and Malaya counters with a nihilistic and materialist world view. Malaya says Mary is lost in a visage of past philosophy and therefore blinded to reality. Mary then counters with a world view of Malaya’s material ripped apart by wolves. Bad Mary! It’s ripped apart by bears! Be Biblical!

      On Reading #3, Malaya is torn between her anticipations for the upcoming holidays of Halloween and Thanksgiving, and talking about drawing turkeys and zombies.

      On Reading #4, Mala- *vaudeville hook*

      • Bathymetheus
        Bathymetheus
        October 7, 2019 at 12:33 am | #

        Hoist by your own vaudeville hook! I’m impressed!

        • Clif
          Clif
          October 7, 2019 at 2:31 pm | #

          Impressed as well, even before the hook.

      • abysswatcher1993
        abysswatcher1993
        October 7, 2019 at 12:37 am | #

        Both are assholes, with one seeing things with jaded eyes and a toxic tongue, and the other being a brimstone preacher bigot.

      • Bathymetheus
        Bathymetheus
        October 7, 2019 at 12:38 am | #

        P.S. while Malaya’s view is materialistic in the technical sense of that word, I don’t see it as nihilistic. The fact that we are flesh and blood (and therefore doomed to die) does not mean life is purposeless and pointless. We can make our own meaning.

        • abysswatcher1993
          abysswatcher1993
          October 7, 2019 at 12:43 am | #

          Rejecting that we are people is still a douchy thing. It’s like saying a person is just their body, like when Joe tried to justify objectifying people, but Joyce revealed to hime when rapey mcdouchebag saw her as an object.

      • Geneseepaws
        Geneseepaws
        October 7, 2019 at 2:07 pm | #

        Or ripped apart by lions, lions are biblical.

  13. TrueVCU
    TrueVCU
    October 7, 2019 at 12:10 am | #

    Whoever wins, we lose

    • Stephen Bierce
      Stephen Bierce
      October 7, 2019 at 12:14 am | #

      I don’t care who wins. I just want it to go the distance.

      • DaveM
        DaveM
        October 7, 2019 at 5:04 am | #

        Is that a subtle Red Dwarf reference? Because even if it wasn’t intentional, I read it as a subtle Red Dwarf reference and laughed.

        S03E06 “The Last Day” for non Red Dwarf persons.

        • Stephen Bierce
          Stephen Bierce
          October 7, 2019 at 3:20 pm | #

          It may have been a little intentional. But you know Lister had a point there.

  14. ivy
    ivy
    October 7, 2019 at 12:11 am | #

    Honestly, that sounds like the sort of thing someone who likes to engage in casual cannibalism and wear flesh masks would say.

  15. Piotr W
    Piotr W
    October 7, 2019 at 12:11 am | #

    “Someone else’s memory of a face” – what..? I don’t get it.

    • Deathjavu
      Deathjavu
      October 7, 2019 at 12:14 am | #

      She’s drawing what she has seen other people draw, instead of the subject in front of her.

      Or at least that’s how I read it.

    • LeslieBean4shizzle
      LeslieBean4shizzle
      October 7, 2019 at 12:16 am | #

      It’s a shot at Mary borrowing someone else’s style rather than developing her own.

      Which is BS because, for many people, taking on an anime or manga style IS their style. I know someone who can dash off anime-style drawings from her own brain in a matter of moments that look fucking professional.

      • Uly
        Uly
        October 7, 2019 at 12:29 am | #

        Which is fine when you’re doing that, but sticking to that style in this life drawing class isn’t exactly helping her to grow as an artist.

      • timemonkey
        timemonkey
        October 7, 2019 at 12:38 am | #

        Yeah, but that’s not what Mary is supposed to be doing here. She’s drawing the same thing over and over with no improvement.

      • Nymphie
        Nymphie
        October 7, 2019 at 12:48 am | #

        It’s not about her borrowing someone’s style, but that she is copying a style without understanding the underlying reasons for the stylistic choices, which makes you just stray further away from the theory behind said artistic choices until you have a mess that is barely readable.

        Lets take the reflection in eyes as an example. An easy beginner mistake is mirroring a set of white spots from the other eye you drew, since everything else is mirrored pretty much. This disregards completely that the white spots are reflection from a light source bouncing off a shiny/wet surface in the shape of a ball, and not a part of the bilateral body symmetry, and can be enough for the human brain to register there is something uncanny with the drawing without people being able to pinpoint what is wrong, just that /something/ is wrong.

        You need to be able to understand the rules in art to be able to break them the right way/taking shortcuts. Otherwise it’s not artistic choices, it’s just a pile of mistakes and laziness.

        • Nymphie
          Nymphie
          October 7, 2019 at 12:51 am | #

          I’m not saying that she necessarily is gonna be bad at drawing anime, but that if she is still drawing anime in a lifedrawing class and doesn’t even try to break out of it to do lifedrawing, then she’s just sitting and doing all the shortcuts she already knew without working on her technique, and she’s expecting to be able to ride on those shortcuts

          • Jamie
            Jamie
            October 7, 2019 at 1:13 am | #

            Oh. Mary is the Walky of Art.

            • DaveM
              DaveM
              October 7, 2019 at 5:02 am | #

              Exactly!
              In seven words you’ve cut to the chase and summed up over half the comments here. Respect.

        • Doki
          Doki
          October 7, 2019 at 4:59 am | #

          ^ THIS

          These are absolutely things I wish I’d known when I started getting more serious about art.

  16. CMasta
    CMasta
    October 7, 2019 at 12:11 am | #

    Malaya is mid2000s internet forum edgelord

  17. Slartibeast Button, BIA
    Slartibeast Button, BIA
    October 7, 2019 at 12:11 am | #

    Turkeys make me think of Jeph’s annual turkey comics.

  18. Mra
    Mra
    October 7, 2019 at 12:13 am | #

    Carcass isn’t the word I would use because it implies that they are already dead and doesn’t really get across the purpose of the body, maybe machine,

  19. ian livs
    ian livs
    October 7, 2019 at 12:15 am | #

    Gonna be real, I wanna see the anime wolves

    • Some1
      Some1
      October 7, 2019 at 12:22 am | #

      https://myanimelist.net/character/7373/Holo/pictures

      • Bathymetheus
        Bathymetheus
        October 7, 2019 at 12:30 am | #

        The thought of those cute creatures tearing Malaya apart is rather dark.

        • drs
          drs
          October 7, 2019 at 2:06 am | #

          Holo’s true form: https://theproductofprimes.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/holowolf.jpg

          • Bathymetheus
            Bathymetheus
            October 7, 2019 at 5:29 am | #

            I’m imagining that horse being extremely nervous.

            • Delicious Taffy
              Delicious Taffy
              October 7, 2019 at 5:51 am | #

              Every horse on Earth should be nervous, right about now. We’re about five years away from putting them on the menu.

              • Sunny
                Sunny
                October 7, 2019 at 10:52 am | #

                I think you mean putting them BACK on the menu.

                • seregiel
                  seregiel
                  October 7, 2019 at 11:45 am | #

                  They are already on the menu in plenty of countries. They are just different breeds than what we see at the race track, etc. You don’t automatically eat a good dairy animal, same thing with specialized horses. Exceptions for over abundance, age, injury, etc.

  20. Foxhack
    Foxhack
    October 7, 2019 at 12:16 am | #

    Didn’t figure Malaya to be an Evangelion fan…

  21. NF
    NF
    October 7, 2019 at 12:18 am | #

    It’s sort of intriguing watching these two interact, because Malaya has all the likeability of a wild hog and Mary is Mary, and Malaya treats Mary the sort of way Mary treats everyone else except flippantly, while Mary is completely unable to hurt Malaya in any way, so strips like today come out like something from an Ingmar Bergman film.

    • Sporky
      Sporky
      October 7, 2019 at 12:34 am | #

      You say that like wild hogs aren’t likable! I liked the one that kept peeing on Sawyer’s stuff in LOST anyway.

      • Solenoid
        Solenoid
        October 7, 2019 at 1:21 am | #

        Depends on how many wild hogs are involved. Get to around 30-50, and you have problems. Or so people say now and then.

        • SuperZero
          SuperZero
          October 7, 2019 at 3:31 am | #

          Well, if those hogs are around where your children are playing, I believe you can solve that problem only by opening fire on them all for 3-5 minutes.

          • Clif
            Clif
            October 7, 2019 at 2:35 pm | #

            Hm. I think there’s a problem with that somewhere, but I can’t quite put my finger on what it is.

            • SuperZero
              SuperZero
              October 8, 2019 at 3:14 am | #

              The problem is that you only spotted one problem.

    • Roborat
      Roborat
      October 7, 2019 at 4:40 pm | #

      The movie wasn’t bad, it had it’s moments.

  22. Bicycle Bill
    Bicycle Bill
    October 7, 2019 at 12:22 am | #

    In the 5th century BC, Plato supposedly defined a human as a “featherless biped.”
    Ecce homo.

    • Uly
      Uly
      October 7, 2019 at 12:30 am | #

      With broad, flat nails.

    • Marsh Maryrose
      Marsh Maryrose
      October 7, 2019 at 1:02 am | #

      Man’s a kind
      of Missing Link,
      fondly thinking
      he can think.
      — PIet Hein

      • StClair
        StClair
        October 7, 2019 at 1:13 am | #

        “Wisest wise man” – modest, we are not.

    • Delicious Taffy
      Delicious Taffy
      October 7, 2019 at 1:13 am | #

      “Ecchi homo”? I hardly knew ‘er.

    • Needfuldoer
      Needfuldoer
      October 7, 2019 at 2:15 am | #

      Ecce homo qui est faba.

    • Kamino Neko
      Kamino Neko
      October 7, 2019 at 7:03 pm | #

      *sings the Chicken Boo theme song*

      (That’s the SECOND TIME TODAY I’ve done that in response to a Diogenes reference…)

  23. AeromechanicalAce
    AeromechanicalAce
    October 7, 2019 at 12:28 am | #

    These two Deserve Each other. It’s glorious.

  24. Tacos
    Tacos
    October 7, 2019 at 12:31 am | #

    What exactly would an anime face on a wolf even look like? Just a normal wolf face but with kawaii blush marks?

    • Bagge
      Bagge
      October 7, 2019 at 1:36 am | #

      Dunno, let’s head over the good ol’ Deviant art to find out.

      NOT SAFE FOR WORK AT ALL!!!!!!!
      (I mean, technically I suppose it is but come on, don’t browse deviant art at work unless you have a really forgiving boss)

      https://www.deviantart.com/search?page=1&q=wolf%20anime

      • Needfuldoer
        Needfuldoer
        October 7, 2019 at 2:09 am | #

        The Internet was a mistake.

        • Clif
          Clif
          October 7, 2019 at 2:38 pm | #

          The Internet was a glorious mistake.

          Fixed that for you.

      • SuperZero
        SuperZero
        October 7, 2019 at 3:26 am | #

        I don’t know what I expected to happen.

      • David
        David
        October 7, 2019 at 4:39 am | #

        By and large the same scantily-clad (if at all) anime female bodies as always, just with furry ears and sometimes a bushy tail in order to distinguish “wolves” from “cats”. Seems like not just Mary needs a cue from Malaya.

        • thejeff
          thejeff
          October 7, 2019 at 8:30 am | #

          There are some actual wolves in an anime style, which I guess would qualify.

          But I was thinking more like wolf body with human anime face. Best if the wolf part is highly realistic.

    • TemperaryObsessor
      TemperaryObsessor
      October 7, 2019 at 11:33 am | #

      I sort of want to say a dog. But I think anime wolves might actually go in the other direction.

    • Roborat
      Roborat
      October 7, 2019 at 4:42 pm | #

      I just thought it would be realistic looking wolves, except with really big eyes and hair colours that don’t exist in nature.

  25. abysswatcher1993
    abysswatcher1993
    October 7, 2019 at 12:35 am | #

    You would expect Malaya to actually give advice on how to draw realistically or to not be bigoted… TOO BAD! PSYCHE! It doesn’t matter if you are good or evil, or talented or untalented, Malaya will destroy your hopes and dreams with the same cruelty as Mike, but without creative comebacks or harsh truths. She is just a queen bongo, but if she turns out tobe a trans person then they will be a monarch asshole.

    I am not defending Mary, she is an asshole too.

    • drs
      drs
      October 7, 2019 at 2:08 am | #

      I think “you should be drawing turkeys” is a bit of advice, if not terribly detailed. It would get Mary away from preconceptions about stylized human form, and looking at what’s actually there. Maybe. Not many anime turkeys, anyway.

  26. bleepbloop
    bleepbloop
    October 7, 2019 at 12:36 am | #

    They’re both so obnoxiously pretentious but in completely different ways. It’s quite interesting to see honestly.

    • abysswatcher1993
      abysswatcher1993
      October 7, 2019 at 12:45 am | #

      Edgelord vs Bigot. The fight of the week. Followed by Danny vs Mike in a bachelor contest.

  27. Robert
    Robert
    October 7, 2019 at 12:38 am | #

    Clearly one of these two ladies is having an existential crisis. I just can’t tell which one…

    • Solenoid
      Solenoid
      October 7, 2019 at 1:23 am | #

      I’d say they each have problems with the other existing.

      • Bagge
        Bagge
        October 7, 2019 at 3:33 am | #

        They both tend to have that effect on people.

  28. Nono
    Nono
    October 7, 2019 at 12:41 am | #

    If you guys aren’t people, Malaya, then who are people?

    • abysswatcher1993
      abysswatcher1993
      October 7, 2019 at 12:46 am | #

      People are people, and people are piles of secrets.

      • StClair
        StClair
        October 7, 2019 at 12:49 am | #

        But enough talk! Have at you!
        *wineglass*

  29. Bobcat
    Bobcat
    October 7, 2019 at 12:58 am | #

    “someone else’s memory of a face”

    JUST TAKE A LOOK AT ME NOOOOW – THERE’S JUST AN EMPTY SPAAACE

  30. ninja_jesus
    ninja_jesus
    October 7, 2019 at 12:58 am | #

    We’re a brain piloting a skeleton mecha wearing meat armor!

    • Marsh Maryrose
      Marsh Maryrose
      October 7, 2019 at 1:18 am | #

      Or maybe we’re just a meat-race.

      • Clif
        Clif
        October 7, 2019 at 2:41 pm | #

        We’re the empty space in the rain.

    • drs
      drs
      October 7, 2019 at 2:09 am | #

      There’s a skeleton inside of you RIGHT NOW.

      Also the average number of skeletons in people is greater than one.

      • SuperZero
        SuperZero
        October 7, 2019 at 3:24 am | #

        Sure, just swallow a mouse whole.

        I’m sure you meant pregnant people, but that’s the boring way.

    • Keulen
      Keulen
      October 7, 2019 at 2:30 am | #

      That actually sounds pretty badass.

  31. Jamie
    Jamie
    October 7, 2019 at 1:10 am | #

    Watching these comments choose between Mary and Malaya is the most amazing social experiment.

    • Marsh Maryrose
      Marsh Maryrose
      October 7, 2019 at 1:21 am | #

      Mary is evil, but she’s hot. Malaya is an asshole, but she’s hot. How does one choose?

      • SuperZero
        SuperZero
        October 7, 2019 at 3:23 am | #

        I’d want to hit them both if they were real, but they’re not and they’re bugging each other and it’s hilarious.

        Hell is other people. Assholes having to deal with each other is better than inflicting themselves on decent people. They depend on other people being better than they are–and sometimes they’re not.

        • SuperZero
          SuperZero
          October 7, 2019 at 3:23 am | #

          Also ew.

      • timemonkey
        timemonkey
        October 7, 2019 at 8:31 am | #

        By picking the one who isn’t a raging bigot who blackmailed someone nearly to suicide?

  32. Bagge
    Bagge
    October 7, 2019 at 1:30 am | #

    as far as I can tell, this counts as helpful advice and sincere support on planet Malaya.

    So why does she care? Why is little miss “too cool to care about anyone else” bothered about wether or not Mary learns how to draw “proper” (whatever that means). Is it just professional pride? don’t want to see talants squandered? Did she herself go through an an-ey-mey-phase in middle school and hate to see someone else stuck in the same rut?

    • Nymphie
      Nymphie
      October 7, 2019 at 1:46 am | #

      In their last class together, Mary implied that Malaya must be less skilled than her, offering her advice and pointers without even checking how Malaya’s technique looked, saying she would be happy to help out a novice. She’s still in the mindset of “the gifted one” that artistic kids easily get if they are the best one at art in elementary school (Her saying last time “I’ve always had a gift”), and hasn’t understood yet that in this setting, being an art major amongst other art people, her skills are probably mediocre.

      Malaya just wants to push Mary into that realisation (and existential crisis) asap. Not for Mary’s own good so she can break down and then rise up from the bad habits that are keeping her down, but because nobody should try and pretend that they are better than they are, how dare they!

      • Bagge
        Bagge
        October 7, 2019 at 3:30 am | #

        I suppose… but does Malaya really care about other people pretending they are better than they are?

        I know she does it constantly to Sal, but at least in my reading that has more to do with what Malaya projects on Sal rather than a general attitude about how other people should behave.

  33. Bagge
    Bagge
    October 7, 2019 at 1:33 am | #

    “a human being is just a machine made of meat…”

    (Youtube link to the very silly song Slay Ride feautering grave robbing, zombification and chritmas tunes)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiKYsRd2NaM

    • thejeff
      thejeff
      October 7, 2019 at 8:35 am | #

      They’re made out of meat

  34. Lawzlo
    Lawzlo
    October 7, 2019 at 1:36 am | #

    “Jellyfish are like hot air balloons… being piloted by plants.”
    –Something a friend of mine said once.

    • Bagge
      Bagge
      October 7, 2019 at 1:37 am | #

      …fair

  35. Zatar
    Zatar
    October 7, 2019 at 1:54 am | #

    Very metal Malaya.

  36. CC
    CC
    October 7, 2019 at 2:07 am | #

    Malaya:I’m just meat! I’m just meat! I’m meat that has opinions and one day I’ll die!

  37. brasca1
    brasca1
    October 7, 2019 at 2:17 am | #

    Wow! For once a majority of readers agree with Mary. Well a broken clock is right twice a day.

    • Roborat
      Roborat
      October 7, 2019 at 4:44 pm | #

      Unless it is a digital clock, then it is just blank.

      • insomniac
        insomniac
        October 9, 2019 at 1:21 am | #

        Unless it’s flashing 12:00. Then it’s still right twice a day.

  38. Keulen
    Keulen
    October 7, 2019 at 2:36 am | #

    DoA Book 10: We’re Not People, We’re Minds Pilotin’ Upright Carcasses, Assembled From Meat And Bone

  39. FortyTwo
    FortyTwo
    October 7, 2019 at 3:20 am | #

    I’m with Malaya. She’s objectifying the model so that Mary will draw what she sees rather than drawing yet another rendition of her concept of “man.” Because Malaya depersonalized the model, she was able to catch details to make those “impressive contours.” Malaya is learning as she sketches something different each time. Mary just repeats what’s in her head, reinforcing that habit and not progressing.

    • PB
      PB
      October 7, 2019 at 2:05 pm | #

      Yet again, well put. If we scrape a layer of asshole off of what Malaya said, it was good artistic advice.

  40. Ohmsford
    Ohmsford
    October 7, 2019 at 3:32 am | #

    I’m a meat mech!

  41. Willoughby Chase
    Willoughby Chase
    October 7, 2019 at 4:03 am | #

    Malaya is in the frame to be a future Francis Bacon or Egon Schiele.

    The other one will be disappointed.

  42. Arianod
    Arianod
    October 7, 2019 at 4:04 am | #

    Not trying to get into a philosophical discussion with Malaya, but if we aren’t people then who is?

    • BenRG
      BenRG
      October 7, 2019 at 4:28 am | #

      Malaya is a bit of a misanthrope. Attributing a philosophical value to human life might be something she doesn’t want to do.

      • Keeith
        Keeith
        October 7, 2019 at 8:21 am | #

        Heh, it’s what you think it’s worth on a philosophical level. Hard value is half a bag of rice.

    • Delicious Taffy
      Delicious Taffy
      October 7, 2019 at 5:47 am | #

      It’s just like Syndrome said: “When everybody is people, nobody will be.”

  43. BenRG
    BenRG
    October 7, 2019 at 4:27 am | #

    Well, Malaya, in all honesty not everyone is any good at drawing from life. It looks like Mary is better at being an illustrator than a portraitist.

    • thejeff
      thejeff
      October 7, 2019 at 8:37 am | #

      You still need to learn the anatomy if you want to be good at illustration and that’s what life drawing classes are for.

      Once you’ve done that, then you can stylize it as you choose and it will still make sense.

      • JBento
        JBento
        October 7, 2019 at 5:42 pm | #

        Otherwise, you end up as Rob Liefeld.

  44. David
    David
    October 7, 2019 at 4:42 am | #

    Sounds to me like Malaya is priming Mary for progress a lot more effectively than her art teacher is.

  45. Delicious Taffy
    Delicious Taffy
    October 7, 2019 at 5:45 am | #

    “We’re all just brains in bodies, maaaaan.” Thanks, fourteen year old stoner, we’d all be lost without your unparalleled insight.

    “Anime isn’t real people.” Whoa, stand the fuck back, everybody. This girl is tearing apart the very foundations of society and inventing a brand new paradigm from scratch.

    • Victor Riley
      Victor Riley
      October 7, 2019 at 12:57 pm | #

      Thank you, I shall be writing that down for future use…

  46. beige
    beige
    October 7, 2019 at 6:08 am | #

    …wow, willis, you made me side with mary. I feel dirty now. I hope your happy

  47. Deanatay
    Deanatay
    October 7, 2019 at 8:15 am | #

    Mmm, Malaya being torn apart by wolves…

    Wait, the wolves all have stupid anime eyes! Ugh! Image ruined.

    • Deanatay
      Deanatay
      October 7, 2019 at 8:16 am | #

      *sigh* shoulda read the alt-text first…

  48. Regalli
    Regalli
    October 7, 2019 at 8:19 am | #

    Gotta say, as someone who’s had a long-running antagonistic relationship with my body (health and disability-related), I actually find Malaya’s dissociation thing here really relatable? But yeah, probably not a particularly healthy attitude to have toward your physical form. Probably is useful in drawing what you see, though.

  49. Keeith
    Keeith
    October 7, 2019 at 8:19 am | #

    Heh, wish I was a better communicator. Malya is right, mary is severely screwed up in the head and yes. When you get down to it, we are all nothing but thoughts stimulating the chemicals in a meat sack. We are just (and I’m going to get this all wrong and the philosophy majors and ancient greek phd’s are going to ream me hard) meme moving meat.

    • Clif
      Clif
      October 7, 2019 at 2:51 pm | #

      I’m not quite sure how to parse that last. Are you saying that meat moves the memes or that memes move the meat? Not disagreeing either way. It’s like in general relativity where the geometry tells the mass/energy where to go and the mass/energy tells the geometry where to go.

      • Keeith
        Keeith
        October 8, 2019 at 7:41 am | #

        memes = thoughts.

  50. Sirksome
    Sirksome
    October 7, 2019 at 8:20 am | #

    I’m not entirely sure what Malaya’s talking about, but based on the few drawings I’ve seen Mary do she does need a firmer understanding of anatomy. It’s not fun, but it’s necessary.

  51. Rabisch
    Rabisch
    October 7, 2019 at 8:55 am | #

    Now I want to see Mary’s drawing on Malaya. The boy behind her looks rather terrified. Maybe she’s really good at drawing people who suffer or are tortured and murdered with cruelty.

  52. Orange Lantern
    Orange Lantern
    October 7, 2019 at 8:55 am | #

    Malaya‘s nihilism aside, she‘s spot on about how to draw. Abstraction is key to understand the actual shapes and inner workings of something. She is totally right about the memory thing.
    For all her faults, Malaya really knows her shit when it comes to drawing. Nice to see a redeeming quality on her.

  53. Bill M.
    Bill M.
    October 7, 2019 at 9:01 am | #

    Oh come on Mary, that is not Biblical! Now bears… mauled by bears is Biblical.

  54. Colineo
    Colineo
    October 7, 2019 at 9:06 am | #

    Oh my God are they going to humanize each other?!?!

  55. Rahdream
    Rahdream
    October 7, 2019 at 9:30 am | #

    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, we are robots made of meat. “Meat-robots”, if you will

    • Rahdream
      Rahdream
      October 7, 2019 at 9:37 am | #

      One doesn’t need body dysmorphia to feel or understand this concept/fact. But somebody who HAS experienced that is probably more likely to intuitively understand or realize it

      And no, it doesn’t mean the mind is separate from the body. We have scientific data that strongly indicates otherwise. The mind-body connection is very real and demonstrable

      And even more no, it doesn’t mean there’s no soul or spiritual component to a human. We have NO scientific data to indicate it, but the soul/spirit is a matter of Faith and Philosophy, not science and anatomy

    • David
      David
      October 7, 2019 at 1:03 pm | #

      You are late to that epiphany. The movie “Meatrobolis” was already done in 1927.

      • Jhon
        Jhon
        October 7, 2019 at 2:42 pm | #

        “Late to the Ephpiphany”
        +1!

        • Clif
          Clif
          October 7, 2019 at 2:57 pm | #

          Better than late to the immanent Eschaton.

  56. Makkabee
    Makkabee
    October 7, 2019 at 9:59 am | #

    I actually wouldn’t mind seeing a manga style drawing of Malaya torn apart by wolves.

    Yeah, she’s got the moral high ground in this conversation, but it’s still a cool image.

  57. Borg
    Borg
    October 7, 2019 at 11:16 am | #

    I didn’t know Malaya was so smart.

    • Nep
      Nep
      October 7, 2019 at 11:50 am | #

      Thank you. Whether or not I agree in a philosophical sense (it’s complicated), that’s a really good way of explaining how her drawing of the model and Mary’s are quite different. Malaya is drawing the object in front of her which just so happens to be a person, Mary is drawing a person which looks nothing like the object in front of her.

      • PB
        PB
        October 7, 2019 at 2:03 pm | #

        ^^ and ^: Thanks for putting it to words!

  58. kilgaen
    kilgaen
    October 7, 2019 at 12:19 pm | #

    FYI: I’m wearing my “Magneto Made Some Valid Points” tshirt.

  59. ValdVin
    ValdVin
    October 7, 2019 at 12:19 pm | #

    I don’t know much about art, but, my take:

    Malaya’s “assembled from meat and bone” reminds me of Chuck Jones’ autobiography where he remarks that drawing figures in a realistic-for-the-medium manner was a must for would-be animators. Bugs Bunny isn’t out of Grey’s Anatomy, but all the weight, motion, space, and gravity in a good cartoon starts with stuff like Malaya’s sketch shown yesterday.

    She has that down, whether she can draw human (or anthropomorphic) expression we don’t know.

  60. Victor Riley
    Victor Riley
    October 7, 2019 at 12:55 pm | #

    Not that I’m defending Mary at all… but anytime someone starts with a sentence, “Do you know what your problem is?”… they’re not actually going to be talking about YOUR problem. Nor are they actually trying to help you.

    But it IS Malaya, so I guess it’s to be expected?

  61. Clif
    Clif
    October 7, 2019 at 3:05 pm | #

    Do you know what your problem is?
    I have no idea, I just thought I’d put that out there.

    My problem is that I think that Malaya isn’t all that inaccurate about Mary’s art problem.

  62. etherealdesiign
    etherealdesiign
    October 7, 2019 at 3:43 pm | #

    behold, plato’s Malaya!

  63. GollyGamma
    GollyGamma
    October 7, 2019 at 4:41 pm | #

    To be honest, a Mary redemption arc could be kind of interesting.

    • Zatar
      Zatar
      October 7, 2019 at 7:51 pm | #

      Do not want.

  64. TheFlamingonator
    TheFlamingonator
    October 7, 2019 at 5:13 pm | #

    unpopular opinion but can we let the teacher be the only one who teaches people how to Art

    (yes i realize this is a comic and all that but i have a Thing about students who try to teach people things and sort of undermine (for lack of a better word) the teacher. i have been That Student and learned that no one likes that)

    • JBento
      JBento
      October 7, 2019 at 5:40 pm | #

      I mean, the teacher isn’t doing it, though.

      • TemporalShrew
        TemporalShrew
        October 7, 2019 at 9:44 pm | #

        I mean… this is a sub-one-minute snapshot of a conversation within a single class, so I’d say we don’t really have enough information to know whether the teacher is doing it.

    • Sol Karas
      Sol Karas
      October 7, 2019 at 6:10 pm | #

      I concur with JBento, the teacher isn’t doing his job. You don’t just make a vague statement to the whole class and hope the relevant student picks up on it, you *talk to* the student in question. “I like it”, “that’s a good drawing” etc are USELESS comments that, when our teachers have been telling us how to make a proper critique, they told us to NOT USE EVER as they are unhelpful.

      Also, your fellow students are your greatest resource in art school. Everyone is at a different level and you can learn from and be INSPIRED by each other.

  65. Vorkon
    Vorkon
    October 7, 2019 at 5:21 pm | #

    So, is Malaya saying that the best way to draw a human is to trace your hand and draw a face on it?

    • Needfuldoer
      Needfuldoer
      October 7, 2019 at 7:17 pm | #

      Mary would still give it big anime eyes and weird proportions.

  66. DarkoNeko
    DarkoNeko
    October 7, 2019 at 8:25 pm | #

    Malaya is… trying to help ?

  67. S.R.
    S.R.
    October 7, 2019 at 10:57 pm | #

    This is actually very good drawing advice. Everyone is inclined to draw what they think something looks like, instead of actually drawing the shapes that they’re seeing in front of them, and your memory lies to make things easier to keep track of. One example: your iris doesn’t appear perfectly round. The top and bottom are slightly hidden by your eyelids. But if someone tries to draw an eye without consciously looking at a reference, they often don’t remember that.

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leavittalone.bsky.social's user avatar
John Leavitt @leavittalone.bsky.social ⋅ 2d
Mammal solidarity “stealing and eating a treat with your dexterous little hands”
paulle.bsky.social's user avatarPaul Lê @paulle.bsky.social ⋅ 2d
I'm obsessed with this li'l hungry bub.
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damnyouwillis.bsky.social's user avatar
David M Willis! @damnyouwillis.bsky.social ⋅ 2d
*weird dean sounds*
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damnyouwillis.bsky.social's user avatar
David M Willis! @damnyouwillis.bsky.social ⋅ 2d
Got my pointy Galvatron slippers.
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markjacob.bsky.social's user avatar
Mark Jacob @markjacob.bsky.social ⋅ 3d
Rolling Stone is one of the few news outlets that know how to write headlines.
rollingstone.com's user avatarRolling Stone @rollingstone.com ⋅ 3d
Report: Elon Used So Much Ketamine He Couldn’t Pee Right The New York Times reports that the billionaire experienced some negative effects from frequent drug use while stumping for Trump last year
header image - Elon Used So Much Ketamine He Couldn't Pee Right: Report
rollingstone.com
Elon Used So Much Ketamine He Couldn't Pee Right: Report
Elon Musk's frequent use of ketamine during the 2024 campaign caused him to experience bladder problems, according to The New York Times.
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damnyouwillis.bsky.social's user avatar
David M Willis! @damnyouwillis.bsky.social ⋅ 3d
everyone: remember to transform your ss86 scavenger so that the shovel arm hangs off his ass like a floppy butt-penis
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papaalphakilo.bsky.social's user avatar
PAK @papaalphakilo.bsky.social ⋅ 4d
Sam Reich doing a little dance on the set of
rajandelman.bsky.social's user avatarBlue sky nice guy @rajandelman.bsky.social ⋅ 12d
We need a liberal Jigsaw
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benrosen.bsky.social's user avatar
Ben Rosen @benrosen.bsky.social ⋅ 3d
i tell ya, my wife is bi. yeah, she bi and i pay!
maggiewestrum.bsky.social's user avatarMaggie Westrum @maggiewestrum.bsky.social ⋅ 3d
we need a rodney dangerfield of the left
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