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Oh here it is, I was really surprised that at almost 300 comments in, no one had said, “And that’s how she was turned to the dark side”, but it’s just that you said it in a less cliche way.
Asher definitely is even though I don’t trust him. Raidah though, we know she doesn’t care about Jennifer and is only in it for her rich parent connection. She pretty much said it to Carl. I don’t know about Carl. Dude is an enigma.
I think Carl’s like the J.J Abrams sort of enigma though, where there isn’t really anything inside the box and it’s not like the initial mystery is that good anyways
So far he’s just set dressing for the Sarah vs Raidah story.
He was originally Dana’s boyfriend. Is that still the case, even after her father pulled her from IU after Sarah told him how badly she was actually doing?
That would be kind of interesting if he still was in a relationship with Dana, really holding it down long distance for his girl so…no he’s probably not still with her. IU man of mystery Carl can’t be too interesting, it breaks the enigma.
What I find interesting is the way Asher talks about Jennifer with Radiah and Carl like he was the reason they hang out with Jennifer even though Radiah is the one who approached her. Could Radiah have befriended Jennifer at Ashers request?
Yes. Lacking genuine interest in each other, her new ‘friends’ are far more objective. No messy attachments.
Her new friends all hate each other or overtly use each other. Who wants to bet against me that Raidah made this offer with screwing Sara (a given) AND Jennifer’s family connections in mind?
I think the fact that Raidah called her Jennifer and not Billie speaks volumes as I don’t think that’s how she originally introduced herself waaay back at their first meeting…
I’d go a step further and say it was also about taking a friend from Joyce, last time we saw Raidah before the time skip Joyce was the one she was mad at for her breakup and during timeskip we see Joyce is the one who really misses Billie/Jennifer.
Alternate Universe where Jennifer got out of the elevator and ran into the McAwesome’s crew. Everything is great and they get ice cream together after class. Later, Jennifer takes Joyce to the doctor and then they go parasailing.
Every other storyline is the same because everyone is so weirded out that they keep their distance, also secretly envious.
I don’t…think Billie and Ruth’s relationship was physically abusive? Correct me if I’m wrong but I think for a relationship to be abusive somecreature has to be exerting power over somecreature? And Billie and Ruth seemed to be on more or less even ground. They both have some issues with control and that was present in some of their fights and all, but neither of them ever really seemed to hold power over the other in their relationship. They got violent with each other, but I think violence in relationships is only abuse if somecreature is only on the receiving end and can’t or won’t fight back? And with Billie and Ruth it went both ways, and neither of them was like scared of the other because of it or anything, which I think is an important factor here? You can say their relationship was unhealthy, sure, I don’t think I could entirely disagree with that, but I don’t think it was abusive.
It’s abusive because it falls into the “this is not really Safe, Sane, or Consensual” umbrella.
It’s reciprocal, they abuse each other in ways that feed their self harm bugs, without the “Self” harming. Ruth’s finally figured out the issue, Billie’s still unable to grasp how toxic their relationship really is.
as we saw in the last couple of strips, there is (or was) a whole lot of “not if I do it to you/myself first!” in this relationship.
(that’s how they keep score of who’s “winning.”)
Abuse can be mutual. I think Billie thinks of it as their communication style and has never really processed the fact that she still acts like they did when they were in an alcohol-fueled death-pact (break in to her room to spoon and everything will be forgotten; if she says she seriously wants to break up the correct response that will make everything right is to punch her in the nose) and Ruth has made enough progress that she’s horrified that she was OK with that dynamic being good enough for somebody she loves (not sure if she’s reached the point where she recognises she deserves more too, mind)…
And in present times, Jennifer is still furious and Ruth still feels guilty for hurting somebody she loves.
Besides what everyone said, there’s defintiely a power imbalance here. Ruth is Jennifer’s RA. That’s the entire reason they kept their relationship secret in the first place.
Remember when we (rightly) gave Jason shit over having sex with Sal? Yeah, same thing, except worse.
“Was” Jennifer’s RA. That’s why Jennifer got moved over to Forest.
I’d argue that Jason was still worse, at least in those terms. That sex was directly tied to the power. Sal only went for it expecting better grades. At least by the time their relationship started, the RA power doesn’t really seem to have factored in to either of their reasons for sex – just for hiding it.
It wasn’t out of nowhere, it was after Jason already creepily hit on her, and after Penny implied that Jason was only tutoring her because she was hot, and after Jason implied that he was only tutoring her because she was hot.
I don’t recall him ever hinting at the grades thing, though. “It was implied,” I think, is what Sal had to say about it?
I don’t know if I fully agree with you or just agree with the points you were making, but I’m glad to have read your contribution to the discussion. For me, I think the abuse would be defined by both a repeating pattern of harmful behavior as well as a one-sided power dynamic.
My understanding was that the psychological warfare was very one-sided, and that Ruth had one-sided power over Jennifer as an R.A. It may have been abusive… towards Jennifer.
That their boundaries are so poor Ruth felt the need to barricade her room after breaking up with Jennifer for the Nth time doesn’t speak well of the relationship. Ruth has issues she needs to work through before she’s even ready for a serious relationship, with anyone. It’s probably for the best they broke up.
On one hand, friends who know you and want to be there for you but don’t know how to recognize or help with your toxic relationship, on the other, friends who don’t care about or actively dislike you but are wealthy and well connected. It’s hard to say really.
Okay maybe not really. Ten years from now when Raidah is a mob lawyer and the Clark wing’s shared experiences has forged it into an unbreakable unit of mutual love and trust and respect that’s probably like leading the US in a worldwide humanist revolution it would sound sarcastic, but, Billie needs another fresh start right now and she thinks she doesn’t have any other options.
Lucy and that gang seems completely wholesome and fun but Billie thinks they’re beneath her. . .
We only really know that Raidah and her posse don’t live on the same floor as the main cast, but there are more floors below and above that, which we don’t know anything about.
Jennifer has rich parents, Raidah has been known to take any chance to try networking, she’s probably been waiting for a chance to talk to Jennifer for a while now
Yeah, social climbing. Jennifer is attractive and has rich parents who likely also have connections. This was too good an opportunity to pass up, with or without any Sarah connection.
I went to a public college with a “face book” photo directory. Not that hard to look it up. Some folks study the photos of everyone they have a class with, so they can greet classmates by name. (I did.)
Jennifer’s last name is the name of her rich/famous/powerful father. It would be like going to school with a Rockefeller scion.
Plus, Raidah probably remembered all the faces she briefly saw when she visited Joyce’s dorm room party with Jacob — she’s got that kind of memory for scheming, and it was probably seared into her memory by the shock of seeing Sarah there.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Raidah also wanted to find a way to get back at Joyce, too, for stealing Jacob away from her. (Even though Joyce/Jacob didn’t last past one kiss.)
Eh. He doesn’t hang out with them anymore because Joyce. And Ethan doesn’t hang out with them anymore, because Amber. And he was mostly there as Ethan’s roommate. He was also Joe’s workout buddy, but they kind of soured after Jacob broke up with Raidah and decided Joe only wanted him around for the proximity to the ladies who flocked to him.
…Or, it’s entirely possible that Raidah was interested in Sarah’s life after reading in the school paper that Sarah had been kidnapped. Jennifer wrote the story, so her legal full name would have been in the byline, maybe with a headshot of the author. Raidah would have remembered Billie from the mall and the party but may not have remembered the nickname Billie. She remembered the full name from the byline, though, and when she saw the face she recognized, approached her to inquire (perhaps just out of curiosity) how Sarah was doing after the kidnapping.
Then when Jennifer started saying stuff that Raidah agreed with about Sarah’s having no friends, Raidah decided that Jennifer was worth getting to know better.
Raidah doesn’t seem like she’s very interested in Sarah’s life, outside of wanting to make it miserable for extremely petty, small, pathetic reasons and that she’d probably be elated if Sarah died. With that in mind, I’d be worried if she took an interest after reading that Sarah got kidnapped. It’d be like watching her home team win a sports, for her.
(the reason I don’t totally discount this and say “there’s NO WAY AT ALL that she would use ‘Jennifer'” is because I can imagine that even if she doesn’t use it anywhere else, “Billie Billingsworth” might look too silly/unprofessional for her in print (especially after the “yeah, I got a /professional tape recorder/” bit)
Initially I thought this scene was kind of sweet and that Raidah was just being nice. However, now that you have pointed this detail out I do find it suspicious.
Librarian here. The amount of publicly available personal information would amaze you. Was prepping something for a class reunion and was easily able to find seriously stalker level info.
That’s just the publicly available stuff. Surveillance capitalism is everywhere.
I can imagine that there are lots of “hows” technically, my point was more that Raidah somehow and for some reason went out of her way to find it, seeing as “Jennifer is almost never used for Billie. Like, my least-creepy guess is that Raidah was like “oh, the Billingtons have a child here?” and then searched it both in the student directory (gets “Jennifer”) and social media (gets an image).
Yep. Plus, her last line here has a real serial killer aspect to it. “Come with me, person who barely knows me… just get in my white panel van and all your problems will go away…”
well, i definitely would turn down an invite from someone i barely know but i can imagine someone their age range in a dorm inviting others to join a party or so versus someone on the street just approaching a stranger
I don’t know, there’s an undertone here today that tastes strange. Feels like we shouldn’t bring up Raidah’s terrible, unjustifiable behavior for some reason
I know X-Men Origins: Wolverine gets a lot of hate, but it wasn’t that bad of movie. I’m not saying it was good enough to deserves a sequel, but the fact that there is not at least one other X-Men Origins film bothers me because then the comma seems so forced and cheesy. Also, I would have loved to see an X-Men: Storm or something (not because I think her backstory is cool but because I have no idea what it is).
I don’t know what the comic Storm’s origin is, but according to the X-Men: Apocalypse movie, she was a little thief in Egypt until Oscar Isaac came along. (at least, I think I’m remembering her role in that correctly)
That’s actually pretty close to her comic origins. She’s actually a descendent of African royal priestesses that could control weather which implies her mutant power is hereditary which is kind of cool. Her parents died and she was orphaned and grew up as pickpocket. Sometimes they sprinkle in her being worshipped as a goddess by indigenous tribes which is fitting. What’s crazy is that for such a powerful mutant in Africa she was never familiar with Wakanda until later in her life.
That’s because Wakanda was an isolationist country and it’s technology kept it hidden.
But she had met T’Challa as a teen and they were in love then.
Also, the bad guy mutant that tried to turn her to the dark side had some kind of psychic ability to communicate and operate from (I want to say) the Ethereal Plane, and Professor X was the one who helped her. I believe the mutant’s name was Shadow King.
Counterpoint: X-Men Origins:Wolverine was actually terrible in all sorts of ways, like Wolverine’s super-enhanced senses not being able to detect that Silverfox was actually alive and that thing that is most definitely not Deadpool.
I love that, after complaining that she was called Billie only because Walky called her Billie, it turns out she’s now called Jennifer only because Raidah called her Jennifer.
I assume she’s trying to chip away at Sarah and Joyce’s friend group as revenge for her breakup because she has a grudge against both and neither of them have a relationship of their own to ruin. This angle would put new light on why she goes after walky the minute he’s hot even though she doesn’t like the thought of being around him….she thinks taking a hot guy away from Sarah and Joyce’s friend group is her win if either has a crush on him.
Also very likely what Sarah thought was happening when Raidah was trying to befriend Joyce way back at the beginning – when we first got the backstory.
We know that after getting to know Raidah’s thoughts with Carl that she doesn’t take genuine interest in at least some of Jennifer’s interests and seems to have a poor opinion on them, but I’m hoping that this was at least genuinely good natured (even if not 100% altruistic)
I do think it is possible we only see Raidah in a negative like because she’s antagonistic from the main character’s perspective so there’s a whole lot of interpersonal baggage projected on her. Sarah doesn’t like her, she was a romantic rival to Joyce, but there is probably a whole other side to her we aren’t privy to. Like just trying to be a lawyer as a Muslim woman in America is pretty impressive right? Maybe she doesn’t have the best personality and is pretty condescending and self involved but just trying to achieve what she is can’t be easy….or maybe I’m wrong and she’s just a turkey.
Also, she was openly admiring of Jacob’s brother’s victories for transgender rights. So politically she’s got a few things right.
…And on Family Day she’s seen talking on the phone worriedly, with Alt-Text saying she’s glad her parents aren’t there. So… I mean, who knows, but there’s got to be a little more depth to her character.
And she doesn’t bat an eye at Jennifer/Billie’s mentioning her female date, so she’s apparently not homophobic or transphobic. Two points in her favor.
Yes, she was super condescending to Dina at the mall. But she did stop her friends from being even more horrible and using ableist slurs toward Dina. Bare minimum, but still.
She disrespect Dina, called Joyce MAG and bad influence, lied about Sarah punch.
True first i too think she is only bad because is not protagonist but we have dirt on her
how helpful could the ‘connections’ really be, other than jennifer mentioning her dad ‘throws money at her in lieu of affection’, doesn’t necessarily mean her parents would be helpful if she rang them up and be like “Hey dad, my friend wants to work at this company, can you put in a good word for her” lol
It depends. People only interested in money WILL listen if it sounds like a way to get more money as their desire for money never ceases. Connections also aren’t fully about what they can do *right now* either so much as ‘just in case’ they are useful later.
It’s basically like making friends with someone with a truck in case you want to move heavy stuff. It doesn’t mean they will help you, that your stuff will fit or that you will ever actually need to move anything heavy. But in your mind, you always have this truck a known asset that you may be able to borrow if you ever have the need for it.
In light and love, Billie, you still have nerds in your wing. However, Sarah is always-so paradoxical in hosting the party.
However however, what IS Raidah’s costume supposed to be? <abbr title="I just wanna watch me some Night Court, to no avail. *plays The Other Side by Justin Timberlake and SZA on the letter B*"Murphy Brown?
Raidah is a weird character for me. Of all the “antagonist” characters, she seems like the one who ought to be pretty nuanced and sympathetic, but more and more she just kind of seems two-dimensionally awful in every way. We’re not at “bailing Mary out of jail to get revenge on their enemies” level yet, but give it time.
I don’t see why Billie/Jennifer can’t have just genuinely become friends with Raidah, why it has to tie in with Raidah’s weird stalking revenge schemes against Sarah and she has to secretly dislike Jennifer, but, well.
Raidah for most of the comic’s run has been unsympathetic and unpleasant while also holding the moral high ground, which to me sort of was the nuance. She wasn’t nice or likeable but her grievances were usually pretty legitimate.
And yeah, there’s frequently legit reasons for it, and I find her an interesting character in the strip. But boy howdy is that a nasty piece of darkness in her…
She hasn’t really taken serious action against anyone, despite motive and opportunity. She seemed content to let people know she hates them and leave it at that, but that might be changing
Citation needed on that one. Remember, her antagonism towards Sarah stems from the fact that she informed her roommate’s father when the latter was self-destructing and none of her actual friends were noticing.
Problem with that situation is we have no context on what happened to Dana. We don’t know how she’s doing now beyond one cryptic line from Raidah that could be a lie, half truth, or misinformed, so it’s essentially her word against Sarah’s on who has the high ground there.
Given that we’ve only heard that story from one person, Sarah, and that there hasn’t been any independent confirmation of any of the facts involved, and we have no idea what state Sarah’s ex-roommate is in now…
I mean, maybe her father is a good sort and is properly taking care of her. We’re due for an objectively good father at this point, aren’t we? But either way, even in Sarah’s telling of the story its unclear how much of what Sarah did was to help said roommie, and how much of it was to get rid of her because it was impacting Sarah’s studies. That Sarah hasn’t seemed to try to find out how she’s doing in the year since… doesn’t speak well on that.
I think the Moral High Ground stuff is more in regards to the whole Jacob situation, where she had that pretty firmly, Joyce and Sarah were being pretty terrible people, and only protagonist-centric-morality pushed us to side with them instead of recognizing just how awful they were being.
Remember that Sarah’s our main source of information on the Dana situation and Sarah’s self-denigrating at best. She’s far more likely to emphasize motives that don’t make it look like she was really concerned about others.
And yeah, it was with Jacob that Raidah had the moral high ground. My favorite thing about that arc was that it let Joyce be doing the wrong thing without it being because Raidah really was nice and a good match for Jacob. Subverts all the rom-com tropes from both sides.
Sarah having a self-protection motive in there does not cede any moral ground. She stopped getting any sleep at the peak. Sarah acknowledged in that same strip that she’s no good at emotional support and probably made things worse, but the clear implication is that she tried. The fact that she waited until she had to make a choice between bringing in an external authority figure and losing her own scholarship (which she needs to stay in school) gives her plenty of good standing.
In terms of not checking in on Dana, just calling in Dana’s father is a bridge burned. Doesn’t exactly lend itself to checking in on someone.
I honestly don’t think it’s Sarah-related. I think she just sees Jennifer as being someone who is from a family of winners, and that’s the kind of people she wants in her social circle. She’s here to make connections that will serve her later in life.
The fact that she specifically asked if Jennifer was one of Sarah’s friends definitely makes me think it’s at least a little Sarah-related. Even if that’s not the primary motivation, it’s not absent.
That’s funny because I felt like her nuance was a later introduction. In her first couple of appearances all she did was bully Sarah and tried to prevent Sarah from making friends.
I don’t know how to tell you this, but as a black muslim woman that wants to be a big league attorney, “collecting connections” is basically mandatory for Raidah.
Professionally, Raidah is what Dorothy thinks hereself to be.
It is. Networking is a valid thing (and something Dorothy needs to work on.)
But Raidah is doing the mean girl version of networking. Nothing wrong with seeking out connections, but the pretending to like them and become close personal friends while trash talking them behind their backs isn’t a necessary part of the process.
Let they who never had to be polite to the insufferable relatives and BFFs of the boss and then ragged on them around the metaphorical watercooler cast the first stone.
In fact, Jennifer has absolutely no power or authority over Raidah, actual or perceivable. She’s tangential to Sarah and that’s all a bully like Raidah needs.
Señor Billingsworth has both shittons of money and political contacts so getting in his good graces is, in fact, extremely important for Raidah if she ever wants to be a lawyer in a top firm. Raidah’s already female, muslim, and dark-skinned, which puts her at severe disadvantage to get in what is a de facto good old boys club. She’s also not getting invited to the parties and yatch fests where those contacts are made. Raidah’s alternative to get in good with people who have influence, even if she doesn’t like them, is to not be a lawyer in a big firm.
What Raidah’s doing here is the same as someone who wants a career in politics passing up the chance to get in good with people whose last name is Clinton or Kennedy.
Yeah. I don’t know if it’s just coincidence that the female/women characters seem to get the brunt of the ugly comments, since most of the main characters are on the female or femme side of the spectrum. It just… all the talk about punching people, f*** people, how people are irredeemably 100% pure evil… it can feel a little targeting, sometimes. To me at least.
Pulled a fire alarm and told somebody he did it, leading to a cascade of events which eventually resulted in someone getting killed, even. His hands are slightly dusty at worst, until we’re told whether or not he did actually order a hit.
Raidah is actually one of the antagonists that most gets to me because she’s so similar to actual bullies I had throughout highschool (and who I’ve met and avoided in adulthood). Those bullies (sub-mean girl type) who would act nice to ridicule, use or find leverage over you, use their social skills and groups as weapons, and who you never quite knew what their intentions were.
Baby autistic me was their favourite target. Adult me will run in the opposite direction if I get so much as a hint of artifice.
We know she’s muslim (unless there’s another religion whose religious building is the mosque that I’m not aware of)*, but I don’t think we were ever told her ancestry. I just googled “Raidah” and apparently it’s an arabic name, so make of that what you will.
Tho i imagine with all that happen esp to your friend (Dana) at 17-18, people would be petty and bitter and never forgive sarah even if she did the right thing
It’s entirely possible that Dana’s father was abusive, or that sending Dana “home” while she was dealing with her trauma wasn’t any safer for her than sending Joyce or Ruth “home” after their traumas would have been.
Lots of folks go away to dorms to escape bad stuff at the homes of their families of origin. I mean, in addition to wanting to learn stuff at college.
Good point. I honestly think that Sarah was in the wrong, but I do wonder what other options she would have had. At minimum she needed a new roommate on the timescale of “now.” Did she have other options?
Especially knowing how supportive Sarah is of Joyce, going above and beyond when she doesn’t have to, all while having a grouchy exterior. She’s the same way with Liz. It’s who she is as a person. She was probably functionally Dana’s entire support system while her other friends were people she had to be performatively okay for the sake of– making part of the situation Raidah’s fault.
It’s definitely complicated. I wonder if Dana’s going to make an appearance at some point.
It’s really hard to say Sarah was wrong. Even if it wound up being bad to send Dana home, that doesn’t show that Dana would have been fine if she’d stayed and kept spiraling.
She’d tried to reach out to Raidah and the others for help, but they dismissed the idea that Dana needed anything but some time. Because, as you say, Dana was being performatively okay for them and they didn’t see beneath the surface.
She could have notified the student health center, or a Resident Assistant or other dorm authority, as Carla did for Ruth and Billie. If it went through the health center only it might not have resulted in Dana’s expulsion, and it might also have resulted in Dana’s getting some care.
My problem with that statement is it tells us nothing and has no context. When was the last time Raidah checked? Does she keep regular contact with Dana? Was Dana still in crisis from her mom’s death cause I imagine nothing would make her okay if that was still emotionally raw. Raidah doesn’t have a reason to lie but she also doesn’t have a reason to be completely honest with Sarah. Knowing her that statement could be a spin on the truth to jab at Sarah. It’s hard to take it in good faith. Even with pure sincerity it doesn’t say much.
And told them what? Dana was capable at the time of putting up a good enough face to keep Raidah and their other friends fooled, so it’s unlikely that Chloe would have done a damn thing. Nor was there anything apparently serious enough to get Dana involuntarily checked into a hospital.
She could have gone to the authorities with the drug use, but that’s likely to have even more serious consequences than going to her father.
It’s possible, sure. It’s also possible Dana was homophobic and her dad’s gay. We don’t have any information about her home situation, so it’s basically fanfic to use it as a reason Sarah’s in the wrong.
The only thing Sarah’s really done was try to break Raidah up with Jacob, otherwise she seems to do her best to avoid her (she did punch her, but that was only after Raidah started a confrontation). Raidah on the other hand has approached her to say “I hope you choke” (literally her first appearance) and apparently keeps tabs on Sarah’s friends and goings on.
Sarah’s not in the clear but she’s definitely not the creepy one
I disagree on the basis that she’d restrained Dina and wouldn’t let her go even when Dina was resisting and Sarah was already pulling her in the opposite direction. While a physical altercation wasn’t good, Raidah was the one who started it.
No worries. It was a long time ago; I myself confused the instance where Walky ran through a couple of dormrooms yesterday. Or the day before that. I dunno, I suck at chronological placement.
I think that’s another case of focusing on the one incident and ignoring context. That punch wasn’t a response just to that situation, but to the ongoing harassment campaign that we saw a couple incidents of before, but had probably been going on throughout the last semester (or year? Not sure when the Dana incident happened.)
It also seemed to have worked – we didn’t see any more of the drive-by harassment incidents.
It looked like a fight-or-flight response; Raidah had been harassing Sarah and trying to prevent her from making friends. Sarah literally started crying after she tried to get away from Raidah only to run into her a second time in short order, that’s how much Raidah was eroding her mental health.
I don’t know if a punch was proportionate, but Raidah sowed those seeds and she reaped the traumatic-stress-induced reward. You bully someone for months, maybe you get hit if they eventually snap.
Do people really think it’s wrong to punch people like Raidah in their smug-ass faces regardless of context? She’s a complete scumbag, fuck how she feels.
You’ve reduced what I said by a lot, and it feels slightly accusatory, but I understand what you’re saying anyway. It’s fine to disagree on this subject.
Raidah was there in the right place and at the right time. Dunno if it was just a coincidence or it was premeditated, but a change of friends is what Billie really needed at the time. Still Better if that can free the old “friends” from Billie.
Raidah is manipulating an emotionally vulnerable woman so she can hurt someone she has a petty vendetta against. She’s not a friend, she’s a user. Billie is not better off with someone who acts out of malicious intent and encourages her to distance herself from the people who genuinely care for her.
So I checked all the strips where The-Cheerleader-Formerly-Known-as-Billie and Raidah were tagged together before the time skip.
There were 7: 4 at the mall, 1 during Parents’ Day, and 2 at the last party thrown in Joyce and Sarah’s room.
The two only interact with each other at the mall, and at no time in any of those tagged strips does anyone call Billie Jennifer, let alone introduce her as Jennifer.
And considering the context, it seems highly unlikely that anyone immediately in the area/timeframe of those strips would have called her Jennifer in Raidah’s presence when Jennifer was just out of panel.
So Raidah definitely found out Jennifer’s name in some other way, and probably on purpose.
It’s possible that she found out from Asher since he was at least adjacent to her “friend” group (read Walky) before high school, though why it would come up in conversation I have no idea. And it’s even creepier if she didn’t find out from Asher (what’s that say that Asher is the least creepy way for her to find out Jennifer’s government name?).
Also, I was trying to give Raidah the benefit of the doubt and see if maybe she just doesn’t use nicknames, calling Billie Jennifer, Walky David, Chan Chanise, and Char Charolette (the last two being her cronies if anyone forgot).
But it turns out that other than introducing Char and Chan by their full names when she first met Joyce, she calls Char Char when she tells her not to use the R word, but she never refers to Chan by name in any of the other strips they’re tagged in together nor to Char by name past the R word strip in any of the ones they’re tagged together (I’m not looking at all Raidah strips just to see if and how she refers to them when they’re not tagged).
So there’s at least one instance of her using a nickname, though I don’t know if the context has any significance to that.
It is so subtle in how what Raidah said is a completely incorrect response to what was actually shared. Jennifer did not detail an event that warrants saying she deserves better and in fact, more implied she was at fault for things going wrong.
And Raidah has responded as if she had denoted an event where she was wronged by her friends and is being a bit overly familiar by not even asking if she wants to come. Instructing a near stranger to come with you hits oddly.
I think this is more about Raidah’s feelings about Sarah and less about what Jennifer said about Ruth. Plus I don’t know that “lost my date” necessarily implies responsibility. Billie reacted poorly but she didn’t do anything tonight to cause Ruth to break up with her.
The part implying fault isn’t her ‘losing her date’ but saying she’ll walk it off and fix it tomorrow. You don’t really say that in the mindset of ‘I played no part in things at all’ and it is only implied, not a full confession or claiming all fault. Jennifer’s wording also avoids blaming anyone else, she didn’t say her date ditched her.
So as far as Raidah should ACTUALLY know, Jennifer could have any level of fault from 1% to 100% and that is as far as she actually knows. She doesn’t know if anyone else did anything wrong and even if Jennifer does blame them, that blame may be unfair just because she is in a bad mood.
Raidah’s response obviously is more about her feelings about Sarah but I was pointing out why it was ill-fitting for the actual scenario. And she’s lucky she still has her teeth afterwards. Suggesting someone’s friends aren’t good enough with no info on what actually happened to someone physically violent could easily backfire by infuriating them into deciding you deserve less teeth.
I read that as more of an invitation than a instruction. Just casual language.
But Raidah is being subtle here. She’s preying on an obvious moment of weakness to feed into Billie’s emotions and make it seem like she’ll be supportive.
Hard to say. When I think of the worst things Joyce has done over the course of this comic, nothing that was influenced by Jennifer springs to mind. Mostly, they’ve come out of her toxic religious upbringing (dating a gay guy to convert him to heterosexuality) or in one notable case, Sarah (trying to break up Jacob and Raidah).
Jennifer did admittedly tell Sarah that she thought it would be great if Joyce started following her lead in terms of behavior, and I can see why that alarmed Sarah, given what a trash fire Jennifer’s choices generally amount to, but Jennifer also abandoned any interest in molding Joyce as a person fairly quickly, probably because she got fully caught up in her drama with Ruth, and wasn’t chasing the self-esteem boost she’d get from having Joyce as a Project after that.
tl;dr the concern was not unfounded, but I don’t think that friendship has actually done Joyce any harm to date. And it was certainly one of Jennifer’s healthier relationships in college.
Hah, I see what Raida did there. She might be saying that Billie deserves better treatment, but she’s really saying Billingsworth deserves better, non-nerd friends. I am glad Raida got to learn all about her favorite minor Star Wars character.
Oh hey, it’s this fucking cretin. Now I’m glad she actually hates Billie, she deserves that self-inflicted torment.
[No less than 20 emojis] “UwU I’m liek soooo grown up u gaiiiz omg 4 real and u should liek……hang out w/ meeee? & nawt those loserrrs?” That’s basically her schtick and it’s insufferable. Well-written and extremely realistic but absolutely insufferable. I sincerely hope every real person like her never finds genuine happiness, at least until they learn to act like decent human beings.
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but you won’t GET better, bc Raidah lololololol =p
> “Tonight, you deserve BETTER”
But DO you though, Billie / Jennifer? Do you REALLY deserve better? >_>
She does?
Jennifer deserves better.
Billie’s really upset that she wasn’t given the rank of Jedi Master, and here’s Raidah to rename her Darth Jennifer.
It’s outrageous, it’s unfair!
somehow, Raidah returned
The Bongo Side is a pathway to many abilities some would consider to be…unpleasant
Oh here it is, I was really surprised that at almost 300 comments in, no one had said, “And that’s how she was turned to the dark side”, but it’s just that you said it in a less cliche way.
I mean, seriously, all of the others are ignoring the violent physically abusive relationship flags of Ruth and Billie.
I think Raidah and the others may actually BE better friends.
Asher definitely is even though I don’t trust him. Raidah though, we know she doesn’t care about Jennifer and is only in it for her rich parent connection. She pretty much said it to Carl. I don’t know about Carl. Dude is an enigma.
I think Carl’s like the J.J Abrams sort of enigma though, where there isn’t really anything inside the box and it’s not like the initial mystery is that good anyways
Oh come on, I don’t think Willis’ writing deserves to be compared to that guy.
Eh, it’s not like Carl is meant to be interesting.
So far he’s just set dressing for the Sarah vs Raidah story.
He was originally Dana’s boyfriend. Is that still the case, even after her father pulled her from IU after Sarah told him how badly she was actually doing?
That would be kind of interesting if he still was in a relationship with Dana, really holding it down long distance for his girl so…no he’s probably not still with her. IU man of mystery Carl can’t be too interesting, it breaks the enigma.
Also, Dana and Carl already broke up.
“Soon she ditched Carl, and so then she was in our dorm room every single night.” – https://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/05-saturdays-all-right-for-slighting/choice/
Found the perfect way to describe myself on Tinder. Thanks.
She’s in it to tweak Sarah’s nose AND the rich parents. Jennifer is a tool for her, nothing more.
I think she also loves the rich rich feeling of “taking” one of Sarah’s friends.
What I find interesting is the way Asher talks about Jennifer with Radiah and Carl like he was the reason they hang out with Jennifer even though Radiah is the one who approached her. Could Radiah have befriended Jennifer at Ashers request?
Given how Raidah interacts with Jennifer it’s possible she regrets this. Asher seems like the only one in their group that genuinely likes her
Yes. Lacking genuine interest in each other, her new ‘friends’ are far more objective. No messy attachments.
Her new friends all hate each other or overtly use each other. Who wants to bet against me that Raidah made this offer with screwing Sara (a given) AND Jennifer’s family connections in mind?
Haha yes I see that she is transparently out for leverage over Sarah here.
I think the fact that Raidah called her Jennifer and not Billie speaks volumes as I don’t think that’s how she originally introduced herself waaay back at their first meeting…
Yeah, that is interesting. Raidah’s been doing research. She wouldn’t have known Jennifer’s name otherwise.
It’s also amusing that for all our deep philosophical ideas for why she changed to using Jennifer, it seems like it’s Raidah prompted.
I’d go a step further and say it was also about taking a friend from Joyce, last time we saw Raidah before the time skip Joyce was the one she was mad at for her breakup and during timeskip we see Joyce is the one who really misses Billie/Jennifer.
Alternate Universe where Jennifer got out of the elevator and ran into the McAwesome’s crew. Everything is great and they get ice cream together after class. Later, Jennifer takes Joyce to the doctor and then they go parasailing.
Every other storyline is the same because everyone is so weirded out that they keep their distance, also secretly envious.
But Agatha has been here the whole time, and both Rose and Zaph are in her new dorm…
I don’t…think Billie and Ruth’s relationship was physically abusive? Correct me if I’m wrong but I think for a relationship to be abusive somecreature has to be exerting power over somecreature? And Billie and Ruth seemed to be on more or less even ground. They both have some issues with control and that was present in some of their fights and all, but neither of them ever really seemed to hold power over the other in their relationship. They got violent with each other, but I think violence in relationships is only abuse if somecreature is only on the receiving end and can’t or won’t fight back? And with Billie and Ruth it went both ways, and neither of them was like scared of the other because of it or anything, which I think is an important factor here? You can say their relationship was unhealthy, sure, I don’t think I could entirely disagree with that, but I don’t think it was abusive.
It’s abusive because it falls into the “this is not really Safe, Sane, or Consensual” umbrella.
It’s reciprocal, they abuse each other in ways that feed their self harm bugs, without the “Self” harming. Ruth’s finally figured out the issue, Billie’s still unable to grasp how toxic their relationship really is.
And so she harms herself by making herself miserable so that she doesn’t harm Billie.
Toxic is as toxic does.
as we saw in the last couple of strips, there is (or was) a whole lot of “not if I do it to you/myself first!” in this relationship.
(that’s how they keep score of who’s “winning.”)
It seems a bit semantic — does “abuse” always require one clear perpetrator and one clear victim, or can abuse be mutual?
Either way, their relationship was certainly toxic.
Abuse can be mutual. I think Billie thinks of it as their communication style and has never really processed the fact that she still acts like they did when they were in an alcohol-fueled death-pact (break in to her room to spoon and everything will be forgotten; if she says she seriously wants to break up the correct response that will make everything right is to punch her in the nose) and Ruth has made enough progress that she’s horrified that she was OK with that dynamic being good enough for somebody she loves (not sure if she’s reached the point where she recognises she deserves more too, mind)…
And in present times, Jennifer is still furious and Ruth still feels guilty for hurting somebody she loves.
Besides what everyone said, there’s defintiely a power imbalance here. Ruth is Jennifer’s RA. That’s the entire reason they kept their relationship secret in the first place.
Remember when we (rightly) gave Jason shit over having sex with Sal? Yeah, same thing, except worse.
“Was” Jennifer’s RA. That’s why Jennifer got moved over to Forest.
I’d argue that Jason was still worse, at least in those terms. That sex was directly tied to the power. Sal only went for it expecting better grades. At least by the time their relationship started, the RA power doesn’t really seem to have factored in to either of their reasons for sex – just for hiding it.
Perhaps, but Sal was the initiator out of nowhere and Jason never even hinted at the grades and immediately excused himself from grading Sal.
And I want to make myself absolutely clear: Jason was wrong. It was part of his literal job to shut Sal down moment zero.
It wasn’t out of nowhere, it was after Jason already creepily hit on her, and after Penny implied that Jason was only tutoring her because she was hot, and after Jason implied that he was only tutoring her because she was hot.
I don’t recall him ever hinting at the grades thing, though. “It was implied,” I think, is what Sal had to say about it?
Sal said pretty clearly at the time that it was for grades: https://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/01-if-the-shoes-split/whatsallthis/ and he did not correct her at the time.
I don’t know if I fully agree with you or just agree with the points you were making, but I’m glad to have read your contribution to the discussion. For me, I think the abuse would be defined by both a repeating pattern of harmful behavior as well as a one-sided power dynamic.
My understanding was that the psychological warfare was very one-sided, and that Ruth had one-sided power over Jennifer as an R.A. It may have been abusive… towards Jennifer.
That their boundaries are so poor Ruth felt the need to barricade her room after breaking up with Jennifer for the Nth time doesn’t speak well of the relationship. Ruth has issues she needs to work through before she’s even ready for a serious relationship, with anyone. It’s probably for the best they broke up.
Hard disagree on that, to say the least, but I will say that yeah, due to youth and other factors, there’s no shortage of enabling going on at times.
I think you are forgetting Walky.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/04-it-all-returns/labcoats/
On one hand, friends who know you and want to be there for you but don’t know how to recognize or help with your toxic relationship, on the other, friends who don’t care about or actively dislike you but are wealthy and well connected. It’s hard to say really.
Okay maybe not really. Ten years from now when Raidah is a mob lawyer and the Clark wing’s shared experiences has forged it into an unbreakable unit of mutual love and trust and respect that’s probably like leading the US in a worldwide humanist revolution it would sound sarcastic, but, Billie needs another fresh start right now and she thinks she doesn’t have any other options.
Lucy and that gang seems completely wholesome and fun but Billie thinks they’re beneath her. . .
Man I thought we were out of the blue nightmare world. Bait n switch!
Halloween is the gift that keeps on giving.
Hmm.
What’s Raidah doing at Clark wing, anyway? She wasn’t dating Jacob anymore, and as far as we know none of her posse live there…
She’s looking for any of Sarah’s friends she can find, so that she can steal them from her as a power move.
Yup! I see that too.
Which is funny because she doesn’t really believe that Sarah has friends in the first place.
Well, there’s people sarah tolerates. but i wouldn’t be surprised if she attempted to “recruit” Roz as well
Sometimes a little doublethink is necessary.
Or maybe she wants dirt on Joyce? She was the reason her relationship with Jacob ended afterall…
We only really know that Raidah and her posse don’t live on the same floor as the main cast, but there are more floors below and above that, which we don’t know anything about.
. . . . So the whole story about Billiefer’s new group is that Raidah wanted some new pawns to gank on Sarah ? <_<
Also it was already pretty glaringly obvious how condescending she was to everyone at the party but “bothering with those nerds”, really eh.
“Later Nerds!” Billifer shouts while dressed as a Jedi.
Raidah appears to be playing a low stakes game of 4d chess.
Nah I don’t think this is related to Sarah
Jennifer has rich parents, Raidah has been known to take any chance to try networking, she’s probably been waiting for a chance to talk to Jennifer for a while now
Yeah, social climbing. Jennifer is attractive and has rich parents who likely also have connections. This was too good an opportunity to pass up, with or without any Sarah connection.
She specifically asks if she’s one of Sarah’s friends. And how does Raidah know about Jennifer’s rich parents (or even that her name is Jennifer)?
and/or trying to network because Billie’s got money and/or trying to get in on the tragedy for clout or something
Yeah. Yup. Yuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuup. This is all a long con, it seems.
I can’t do the gritted teeth emoji but, that
also how did Raidah know her name was Jennifer
That she knew her real name rather than what she use commonly informally means she looked it up in a school file ?
idk, I’d just be weirded out if someone I didn’t know was like ‘hey, you’re [legal name], right?’ when neither I nor my friends ever used that name.
I mean, you should be weirded out, since it probably means they’re stalking you a bit.
They did meet a while ago. https://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/05-saturdays-all-right-for-slighting/freshmen/
Maybe she knew her real name from the paper?
That’s a little creepy. Like what, she was studying up on students with potential influence? I mean that seems like a lot.
At least as likely to have been studying up on Sarah’s friends (or Joyce’s)?
That Jennifer has potential influence is just a bonus.
Do public school files also have pictures? Because otherwise I have no idea how she recognized her by sight.
Honestly, my wild guess is that Raidah did some digging on the story of the minor who was in a drunken car crash and went to IU.
I went to a public college with a “face book” photo directory. Not that hard to look it up. Some folks study the photos of everyone they have a class with, so they can greet classmates by name. (I did.)
Jennifer’s last name is the name of her rich/famous/powerful father. It would be like going to school with a Rockefeller scion.
Plus, Raidah probably remembered all the faces she briefly saw when she visited Joyce’s dorm room party with Jacob — she’s got that kind of memory for scheming, and it was probably seared into her memory by the shock of seeing Sarah there.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Raidah also wanted to find a way to get back at Joyce, too, for stealing Jacob away from her. (Even though Joyce/Jacob didn’t last past one kiss.)
What ever happened to Jacob? I think he’s still on the cast page but dude has been a ghost post timeskip. Is he the one really in witness protection?
Eh. He doesn’t hang out with them anymore because Joyce. And Ethan doesn’t hang out with them anymore, because Amber. And he was mostly there as Ethan’s roommate. He was also Joe’s workout buddy, but they kind of soured after Jacob broke up with Raidah and decided Joe only wanted him around for the proximity to the ladies who flocked to him.
I don’t think Jacob was serious about that last part, he was just angsting.
Honestly, it’s probably just that he doesn’t really much of a reason to be in the comic lately. If/when he needs to make an appearance, he will.
…Or, it’s entirely possible that Raidah was interested in Sarah’s life after reading in the school paper that Sarah had been kidnapped. Jennifer wrote the story, so her legal full name would have been in the byline, maybe with a headshot of the author. Raidah would have remembered Billie from the mall and the party but may not have remembered the nickname Billie. She remembered the full name from the byline, though, and when she saw the face she recognized, approached her to inquire (perhaps just out of curiosity) how Sarah was doing after the kidnapping.
Then when Jennifer started saying stuff that Raidah agreed with about Sarah’s having no friends, Raidah decided that Jennifer was worth getting to know better.
Just a thought.
Raidah doesn’t seem like she’s very interested in Sarah’s life, outside of wanting to make it miserable for extremely petty, small, pathetic reasons and that she’d probably be elated if Sarah died. With that in mind, I’d be worried if she took an interest after reading that Sarah got kidnapped. It’d be like watching her home team win a sports, for her.
I accept this as a possibility but I also kind of doubt she publishes under her full and legal name, at least before this strip.
(the reason I don’t totally discount this and say “there’s NO WAY AT ALL that she would use ‘Jennifer'” is because I can imagine that even if she doesn’t use it anywhere else, “Billie Billingsworth” might look too silly/unprofessional for her in print (especially after the “yeah, I got a /professional tape recorder/” bit)
Initially I thought this scene was kind of sweet and that Raidah was just being nice. However, now that you have pointed this detail out I do find it suspicious.
Was scrolling through the comments just to see if I was the only one bothered by this.
Librarian here. The amount of publicly available personal information would amaze you. Was prepping something for a class reunion and was easily able to find seriously stalker level info.
That’s just the publicly available stuff. Surveillance capitalism is everywhere.
You’re never as private as you’d like to be, truth be told.
I can imagine that there are lots of “hows” technically, my point was more that Raidah somehow and for some reason went out of her way to find it, seeing as “Jennifer is almost never used for Billie. Like, my least-creepy guess is that Raidah was like “oh, the Billingtons have a child here?” and then searched it both in the student directory (gets “Jennifer”) and social media (gets an image).
Raidah is giving me some weird creepy vibes in this scene. Everything she does comes off as fake and manipulative.
Such is Raidah
Yep. Plus, her last line here has a real serial killer aspect to it. “Come with me, person who barely knows me… just get in my white panel van and all your problems will go away…”
well, i definitely would turn down an invite from someone i barely know but i can imagine someone their age range in a dorm inviting others to join a party or so versus someone on the street just approaching a stranger
Raidah is self-described as a future lawyer
Malaya was wrong, it wasn’t Sal OR them that was the Fakey
Just means you’re paying attention to what Raidah’s always been about.
I don’t know, there’s an undertone here today that tastes strange. Feels like we shouldn’t bring up Raidah’s terrible, unjustifiable behavior for some reason
Jennifer: ORIGIN.
I know X-Men Origins: Wolverine gets a lot of hate, but it wasn’t that bad of movie. I’m not saying it was good enough to deserves a sequel, but the fact that there is not at least one other X-Men Origins film bothers me because then the comma seems so forced and cheesy. Also, I would have loved to see an X-Men: Storm or something (not because I think her backstory is cool but because I have no idea what it is).
I don’t know what the comic Storm’s origin is, but according to the X-Men: Apocalypse movie, she was a little thief in Egypt until Oscar Isaac came along. (at least, I think I’m remembering her role in that correctly)
That’s about what it was in comics, too, except a different person came along. Also she was worshipped as a goddess in Kenya at some point.
That’s actually pretty close to her comic origins. She’s actually a descendent of African royal priestesses that could control weather which implies her mutant power is hereditary which is kind of cool. Her parents died and she was orphaned and grew up as pickpocket. Sometimes they sprinkle in her being worshipped as a goddess by indigenous tribes which is fitting. What’s crazy is that for such a powerful mutant in Africa she was never familiar with Wakanda until later in her life.
That’s because Wakanda was an isolationist country and it’s technology kept it hidden.
But she had met T’Challa as a teen and they were in love then.
Also, the bad guy mutant that tried to turn her to the dark side had some kind of psychic ability to communicate and operate from (I want to say) the Ethereal Plane, and Professor X was the one who helped her. I believe the mutant’s name was Shadow King.
I didn’t mean to flag this, I was trying to reply!
All I wanted to say was that they included the Shadow King in one of the episodes of the original animated X-Men series.
Counterpoint: X-Men Origins:Wolverine was actually terrible in all sorts of ways, like Wolverine’s super-enhanced senses not being able to detect that Silverfox was actually alive and that thing that is most definitely not Deadpool.
I love that, after complaining that she was called Billie only because Walky called her Billie, it turns out she’s now called Jennifer only because Raidah called her Jennifer.
“I’m starting this… thing. It’s not a cult. Want to join us?”
The “We’re perfectly secular” Club
early christians be like
With less lions.
So Raidah’s the one who befriended and yet she acts all two faced about hanging out with her since she mocks her interest behind her back.
Maybe she just keeps her around because she has wealthy parents and Raidah seems to like to astablish relationships based on career and connection.
I assume she’s trying to chip away at Sarah and Joyce’s friend group as revenge for her breakup because she has a grudge against both and neither of them have a relationship of their own to ruin. This angle would put new light on why she goes after walky the minute he’s hot even though she doesn’t like the thought of being around him….she thinks taking a hot guy away from Sarah and Joyce’s friend group is her win if either has a crush on him.
Yeah, that’s basically my read.
Also very likely what Sarah thought was happening when Raidah was trying to befriend Joyce way back at the beginning – when we first got the backstory.
I assume she’s playing a fictional lawyer of some sort, although fucked if I could tell which
Has she painted herself green?
Wasn’t She-Hulk a lawyer?
that was the reference, yes
No, she’s clearly blue.
Now, what would green look like in flashback blue?
Fuck raidah, that is all.
We know that after getting to know Raidah’s thoughts with Carl that she doesn’t take genuine interest in at least some of Jennifer’s interests and seems to have a poor opinion on them, but I’m hoping that this was at least genuinely good natured (even if not 100% altruistic)
It is raidah we’re talking about, I’m not sure that she has a good natured bone in her body.
I do think it is possible we only see Raidah in a negative like because she’s antagonistic from the main character’s perspective so there’s a whole lot of interpersonal baggage projected on her. Sarah doesn’t like her, she was a romantic rival to Joyce, but there is probably a whole other side to her we aren’t privy to. Like just trying to be a lawyer as a Muslim woman in America is pretty impressive right? Maybe she doesn’t have the best personality and is pretty condescending and self involved but just trying to achieve what she is can’t be easy….or maybe I’m wrong and she’s just a turkey.
She didn’t sue Sarah for punching her, which is something.
She’s not nice but she’s not really Mary levels of evil either.
Also, she was openly admiring of Jacob’s brother’s victories for transgender rights. So politically she’s got a few things right.
…And on Family Day she’s seen talking on the phone worriedly, with Alt-Text saying she’s glad her parents aren’t there. So… I mean, who knows, but there’s got to be a little more depth to her character.
And she at least tried to be nice to Sarah at first.
And she doesn’t bat an eye at Jennifer/Billie’s mentioning her female date, so she’s apparently not homophobic or transphobic. Two points in her favor.
Yes, she was super condescending to Dina at the mall. But she did stop her friends from being even more horrible and using ableist slurs toward Dina. Bare minimum, but still.
I’m not convinced she was interested in the rights more than the prestige
(this isn’t to call her transphobic, just that her actual stance isn’t actually confirmed)
She disrespect Dina, called Joyce MAG and bad influence, lied about Sarah punch.
True first i too think she is only bad because is not protagonist but we have dirt on her
*plays Cliff Richard’s “Devil Woman” on the hacked Muzak*
Nice music, but the Devil is cool. Raidah / Billie don’t deserve association with the likes of Satan.
i wanna believe raidah has good intentions, but it IS raidah. plus we’re already aware that in the present she’s just using jennifer
how helpful could the ‘connections’ really be, other than jennifer mentioning her dad ‘throws money at her in lieu of affection’, doesn’t necessarily mean her parents would be helpful if she rang them up and be like “Hey dad, my friend wants to work at this company, can you put in a good word for her” lol
It depends. People only interested in money WILL listen if it sounds like a way to get more money as their desire for money never ceases. Connections also aren’t fully about what they can do *right now* either so much as ‘just in case’ they are useful later.
It’s basically like making friends with someone with a truck in case you want to move heavy stuff. It doesn’t mean they will help you, that your stuff will fit or that you will ever actually need to move anything heavy. But in your mind, you always have this truck a known asset that you may be able to borrow if you ever have the need for it.
Wow the flashback blue used to be a lot more toned down and muted. That’s way easier on the eyes!
In light and love, Billie, you still have nerds in your wing. However, Sarah is always-so paradoxical in hosting the party.
However however, what IS Raidah’s costume supposed to be? <abbr title="I just wanna watch me some Night Court, to no avail. *plays The Other Side by Justin Timberlake and SZA on the letter B*"Murphy Brown?
Take me away, elevator doors of closed tagging!
Raidah is a weird character for me. Of all the “antagonist” characters, she seems like the one who ought to be pretty nuanced and sympathetic, but more and more she just kind of seems two-dimensionally awful in every way. We’re not at “bailing Mary out of jail to get revenge on their enemies” level yet, but give it time.
I don’t see why Billie/Jennifer can’t have just genuinely become friends with Raidah, why it has to tie in with Raidah’s weird stalking revenge schemes against Sarah and she has to secretly dislike Jennifer, but, well.
Raidah for most of the comic’s run has been unsympathetic and unpleasant while also holding the moral high ground, which to me sort of was the nuance. She wasn’t nice or likeable but her grievances were usually pretty legitimate.
Raidah’s not the sort that holds a grudge.
She’s the sort that savors it.
And yeah, there’s frequently legit reasons for it, and I find her an interesting character in the strip. But boy howdy is that a nasty piece of darkness in her…
She hasn’t really taken serious action against anyone, despite motive and opportunity. She seemed content to let people know she hates them and leave it at that, but that might be changing
“also holding the moral high ground”
Citation needed on that one. Remember, her antagonism towards Sarah stems from the fact that she informed her roommate’s father when the latter was self-destructing and none of her actual friends were noticing.
Problem with that situation is we have no context on what happened to Dana. We don’t know how she’s doing now beyond one cryptic line from Raidah that could be a lie, half truth, or misinformed, so it’s essentially her word against Sarah’s on who has the high ground there.
Given that we’ve only heard that story from one person, Sarah, and that there hasn’t been any independent confirmation of any of the facts involved, and we have no idea what state Sarah’s ex-roommate is in now…
I mean, maybe her father is a good sort and is properly taking care of her. We’re due for an objectively good father at this point, aren’t we? But either way, even in Sarah’s telling of the story its unclear how much of what Sarah did was to help said roommie, and how much of it was to get rid of her because it was impacting Sarah’s studies. That Sarah hasn’t seemed to try to find out how she’s doing in the year since… doesn’t speak well on that.
I think the Moral High Ground stuff is more in regards to the whole Jacob situation, where she had that pretty firmly, Joyce and Sarah were being pretty terrible people, and only protagonist-centric-morality pushed us to side with them instead of recognizing just how awful they were being.
Remember that Sarah’s our main source of information on the Dana situation and Sarah’s self-denigrating at best. She’s far more likely to emphasize motives that don’t make it look like she was really concerned about others.
And yeah, it was with Jacob that Raidah had the moral high ground. My favorite thing about that arc was that it let Joyce be doing the wrong thing without it being because Raidah really was nice and a good match for Jacob. Subverts all the rom-com tropes from both sides.
Sarah having a self-protection motive in there does not cede any moral ground. She stopped getting any sleep at the peak. Sarah acknowledged in that same strip that she’s no good at emotional support and probably made things worse, but the clear implication is that she tried. The fact that she waited until she had to make a choice between bringing in an external authority figure and losing her own scholarship (which she needs to stay in school) gives her plenty of good standing.
In terms of not checking in on Dana, just calling in Dana’s father is a bridge burned. Doesn’t exactly lend itself to checking in on someone.
I honestly don’t think it’s Sarah-related. I think she just sees Jennifer as being someone who is from a family of winners, and that’s the kind of people she wants in her social circle. She’s here to make connections that will serve her later in life.
The fact that she specifically asked if Jennifer was one of Sarah’s friends definitely makes me think it’s at least a little Sarah-related. Even if that’s not the primary motivation, it’s not absent.
They first met when Sarah was there iirc.
That’s funny because I felt like her nuance was a later introduction. In her first couple of appearances all she did was bully Sarah and tried to prevent Sarah from making friends.
….I don’t know if this is a scheme by Raidah. I don’t know if there’s anything sinister going on. But what I do know?
Comments down here are going to get ugly for a bit.
She seems to pretty much be collecting connections – remember that she’s aware of Jennifer’s family being wealthy.
Raidah seems to be genuinely very shallow when it comes to relationships in general.
She also has a vendetta against Sarah that has her working to pry Sarah’s friends away.
I don’t know how to tell you this, but as a black muslim woman that wants to be a big league attorney, “collecting connections” is basically mandatory for Raidah.
Professionally, Raidah is what Dorothy thinks hereself to be.
It is. Networking is a valid thing (and something Dorothy needs to work on.)
But Raidah is doing the mean girl version of networking. Nothing wrong with seeking out connections, but the pretending to like them and become close personal friends while trash talking them behind their backs isn’t a necessary part of the process.
Let they who never had to be polite to the insufferable relatives and BFFs of the boss and then ragged on them around the metaphorical watercooler cast the first stone.
Jennifer isn’t her boss and neither are her parents.
In fact, Jennifer has absolutely no power or authority over Raidah, actual or perceivable. She’s tangential to Sarah and that’s all a bully like Raidah needs.
Señor Billingsworth has both shittons of money and political contacts so getting in his good graces is, in fact, extremely important for Raidah if she ever wants to be a lawyer in a top firm. Raidah’s already female, muslim, and dark-skinned, which puts her at severe disadvantage to get in what is a de facto good old boys club. She’s also not getting invited to the parties and yatch fests where those contacts are made. Raidah’s alternative to get in good with people who have influence, even if she doesn’t like them, is to not be a lawyer in a big firm.
Curse the lack of an edit button.
What Raidah’s doing here is the same as someone who wants a career in politics passing up the chance to get in good with people whose last name is Clinton or Kennedy.
NOT passing up, obviously. Goddamn it.
And there’s the fact that Sarah started hanging out with Dana and her friends because they had lawyer parents, too:
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/05-saturdays-all-right-for-slighting/networking/
Damn, strip is even CALLED networking.
Comments down here get ugly pretty much every time anyone does anything at all in this strip.
Yeah. I don’t know if it’s just coincidence that the female/women characters seem to get the brunt of the ugly comments, since most of the main characters are on the female or femme side of the spectrum. It just… all the talk about punching people, f*** people, how people are irredeemably 100% pure evil… it can feel a little targeting, sometimes. To me at least.
Just speaking as a person who’s been the target of sexist violence in the past. FWIW.
(The sex/gender spectrum, I mean.)
Ah got it. She’s Mindy from Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy.
Where’s the Grim Reaper they’re friends with? Is it Asher?
Well, he has done a bit of reaping. *nudge nudge wink wink* Hahahahahaha, the joke is that he killed someone.
Jokes are always funniest when they’re also untrue, I agree.
Had them killed. But, yeah.
Pulled a fire alarm and told somebody he did it, leading to a cascade of events which eventually resulted in someone getting killed, even. His hands are slightly dusty at worst, until we’re told whether or not he did actually order a hit.
Case in point:
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2020/comic/book-10/04-is-a-song-forever/blammo/
oh no
Raidah is actually one of the antagonists that most gets to me because she’s so similar to actual bullies I had throughout highschool (and who I’ve met and avoided in adulthood). Those bullies (sub-mean girl type) who would act nice to ridicule, use or find leverage over you, use their social skills and groups as weapons, and who you never quite knew what their intentions were.
Baby autistic me was their favourite target. Adult me will run in the opposite direction if I get so much as a hint of artifice.
“… we have cookies!”
Raidah’s costume is “being a decent person” and it’s fairly on the nose.
Oh God her face punch-ability rises more with every appearance
No.
Yes.
No, I’m not actually OK with joking about punching a Black Muslim woman in the face.
I’m not actually OK with punching anyone, but that particular group is already targeted for physical violence.
Sorry — a woman of color. We don’t actually know Raidah’s race or ethnicity. I’d just heard it described here in the comments.
We know she’s muslim (unless there’s another religion whose religious building is the mosque that I’m not aware of)*, but I don’t think we were ever told her ancestry. I just googled “Raidah” and apparently it’s an arabic name, so make of that what you will.
*strip in question: https://www.dumbingofage.com/2017/comic/book-8/01-face-the-strange/guzzle/
Yeah, there are more references to her being Muslim. Not sure if we’ve got anything else on her ethnic background.
Raidah’s obsession with Sarah is really weird and creepy.
Maybe a long term revenge plan?
Tho i imagine with all that happen esp to your friend (Dana) at 17-18, people would be petty and bitter and never forgive sarah even if she did the right thing
It’s entirely possible that Dana’s father was abusive, or that sending Dana “home” while she was dealing with her trauma wasn’t any safer for her than sending Joyce or Ruth “home” after their traumas would have been.
Lots of folks go away to dorms to escape bad stuff at the homes of their families of origin. I mean, in addition to wanting to learn stuff at college.
Good point. I honestly think that Sarah was in the wrong, but I do wonder what other options she would have had. At minimum she needed a new roommate on the timescale of “now.” Did she have other options?
Especially knowing how supportive Sarah is of Joyce, going above and beyond when she doesn’t have to, all while having a grouchy exterior. She’s the same way with Liz. It’s who she is as a person. She was probably functionally Dana’s entire support system while her other friends were people she had to be performatively okay for the sake of– making part of the situation Raidah’s fault.
It’s definitely complicated. I wonder if Dana’s going to make an appearance at some point.
It’s really hard to say Sarah was wrong. Even if it wound up being bad to send Dana home, that doesn’t show that Dana would have been fine if she’d stayed and kept spiraling.
She’d tried to reach out to Raidah and the others for help, but they dismissed the idea that Dana needed anything but some time. Because, as you say, Dana was being performatively okay for them and they didn’t see beneath the surface.
She could have notified the student health center, or a Resident Assistant or other dorm authority, as Carla did for Ruth and Billie. If it went through the health center only it might not have resulted in Dana’s expulsion, and it might also have resulted in Dana’s getting some care.
I mean, according to Raidah, Dana says she’s not in a better place at home than she was at school:
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/06-strange-beerfellows/absolve/
FWIW.
My problem with that statement is it tells us nothing and has no context. When was the last time Raidah checked? Does she keep regular contact with Dana? Was Dana still in crisis from her mom’s death cause I imagine nothing would make her okay if that was still emotionally raw. Raidah doesn’t have a reason to lie but she also doesn’t have a reason to be completely honest with Sarah. Knowing her that statement could be a spin on the truth to jab at Sarah. It’s hard to take it in good faith. Even with pure sincerity it doesn’t say much.
Also, Dana was fooling Raidah when they were in closer contact, so she’s not really a reliable source.
And told them what? Dana was capable at the time of putting up a good enough face to keep Raidah and their other friends fooled, so it’s unlikely that Chloe would have done a damn thing. Nor was there anything apparently serious enough to get Dana involuntarily checked into a hospital.
She could have gone to the authorities with the drug use, but that’s likely to have even more serious consequences than going to her father.
It’s possible, sure. It’s also possible Dana was homophobic and her dad’s gay. We don’t have any information about her home situation, so it’s basically fanfic to use it as a reason Sarah’s in the wrong.
Buonasera not weirder and creepier that Sarah’s obsession with Raidah.
The only thing Sarah’s really done was try to break Raidah up with Jacob, otherwise she seems to do her best to avoid her (she did punch her, but that was only after Raidah started a confrontation). Raidah on the other hand has approached her to say “I hope you choke” (literally her first appearance) and apparently keeps tabs on Sarah’s friends and goings on.
Sarah’s not in the clear but she’s definitely not the creepy one
I mean, that’s a pretty thing. I’d DEFINITELY remember someone who tried to break me up and my partner THEN SUCEEDED.
I don’t think the punch was justified or a proportionate response in any way.
I disagree on the basis that she’d restrained Dina and wouldn’t let her go even when Dina was resisting and Sarah was already pulling her in the opposite direction. While a physical altercation wasn’t good, Raidah was the one who started it.
a) you mean Joyce, and
b) this is a mischaracterisation of events. Sarah started pulling Joyce away, and Joyce was resisting LEAVING, not staying.
Strip in question: https://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/05-saturdays-all-right-for-slighting/paid/
Wow, I completely misremembered what happened. Thanks for correcting me, sorry for my mistake.
No worries. It was a long time ago; I myself confused the instance where Walky ran through a couple of dormrooms yesterday. Or the day before that. I dunno, I suck at chronological placement.
I think that’s another case of focusing on the one incident and ignoring context. That punch wasn’t a response just to that situation, but to the ongoing harassment campaign that we saw a couple incidents of before, but had probably been going on throughout the last semester (or year? Not sure when the Dana incident happened.)
It also seemed to have worked – we didn’t see any more of the drive-by harassment incidents.
It looked like a fight-or-flight response; Raidah had been harassing Sarah and trying to prevent her from making friends. Sarah literally started crying after she tried to get away from Raidah only to run into her a second time in short order, that’s how much Raidah was eroding her mental health.
I don’t know if a punch was proportionate, but Raidah sowed those seeds and she reaped the traumatic-stress-induced reward. You bully someone for months, maybe you get hit if they eventually snap.
Do people really think it’s wrong to punch people like Raidah in their smug-ass faces regardless of context? She’s a complete scumbag, fuck how she feels.
Yes: this person at least (me) really thinks it’s wrong to punch people in the face.
You’ve reduced what I said by a lot, and it feels slightly accusatory, but I understand what you’re saying anyway. It’s fine to disagree on this subject.
Thank you.
I think the punch might have been WORSE behaviour, but I wouldn’t call it “creepy”
I forgot until kust niw about the time Dina tailed Raidah and Jacob for Sarah. THAT was creepy.
Dina’s probably one of the characters with the loosest morals, and that’s saying something.
Raidah’s being gross right now.
Why can’t we vote for Raidah’s costume?
Raidah was there in the right place and at the right time. Dunno if it was just a coincidence or it was premeditated, but a change of friends is what Billie really needed at the time. Still Better if that can free the old “friends” from Billie.
Raidah is manipulating an emotionally vulnerable woman so she can hurt someone she has a petty vendetta against. She’s not a friend, she’s a user. Billie is not better off with someone who acts out of malicious intent and encourages her to distance herself from the people who genuinely care for her.
Billie is a bad person, but Raidah is like a literal devil here.
Again with the devil?
Bruh, the devil and demons are COOL, and Raidah of all people is absolutely the LEAST deserving of affiliation with them.
So I checked all the strips where The-Cheerleader-Formerly-Known-as-Billie and Raidah were tagged together before the time skip.
There were 7: 4 at the mall, 1 during Parents’ Day, and 2 at the last party thrown in Joyce and Sarah’s room.
The two only interact with each other at the mall, and at no time in any of those tagged strips does anyone call Billie Jennifer, let alone introduce her as Jennifer.
And considering the context, it seems highly unlikely that anyone immediately in the area/timeframe of those strips would have called her Jennifer in Raidah’s presence when Jennifer was just out of panel.
So Raidah definitely found out Jennifer’s name in some other way, and probably on purpose.
It’s possible that she found out from Asher since he was at least adjacent to her “friend” group (read Walky) before high school, though why it would come up in conversation I have no idea. And it’s even creepier if she didn’t find out from Asher (what’s that say that Asher is the least creepy way for her to find out Jennifer’s government name?).
Also, I was trying to give Raidah the benefit of the doubt and see if maybe she just doesn’t use nicknames, calling Billie Jennifer, Walky David, Chan Chanise, and Char Charolette (the last two being her cronies if anyone forgot).
But it turns out that other than introducing Char and Chan by their full names when she first met Joyce, she calls Char Char when she tells her not to use the R word, but she never refers to Chan by name in any of the other strips they’re tagged in together nor to Char by name past the R word strip in any of the ones they’re tagged together (I’m not looking at all Raidah strips just to see if and how she refers to them when they’re not tagged).
So there’s at least one instance of her using a nickname, though I don’t know if the context has any significance to that.
She was published in the student newspaper right? That might explain why Raidah knows her full name that is never used in any other context.
The newspaper, Asher, facebook… there’s plenty of ways she could have found out.
DaVinci Code of Age
I’ve been reading this comic for a long time but it kind of lost me when it went blue
“I got them ol’ flashback blues”
It’s just a flashback. It’ll go back to colour at some point, this is not a permanent change.
How Billie – the terrible person, met a devil at a crossroads.
Raidah’s costume is District Attorney, right?
Or Corporate Lawyer.
….is THIS what prompted the name change? Because if so, ouch.
She seems nice
A real treat, this kid.
Somehow I think “deserving better” and hanging out with Raidah are opposites.
“When you bring me out, can you introduce me as Jennifer?”
It is so subtle in how what Raidah said is a completely incorrect response to what was actually shared. Jennifer did not detail an event that warrants saying she deserves better and in fact, more implied she was at fault for things going wrong.
And Raidah has responded as if she had denoted an event where she was wronged by her friends and is being a bit overly familiar by not even asking if she wants to come. Instructing a near stranger to come with you hits oddly.
I think this is more about Raidah’s feelings about Sarah and less about what Jennifer said about Ruth. Plus I don’t know that “lost my date” necessarily implies responsibility. Billie reacted poorly but she didn’t do anything tonight to cause Ruth to break up with her.
The part implying fault isn’t her ‘losing her date’ but saying she’ll walk it off and fix it tomorrow. You don’t really say that in the mindset of ‘I played no part in things at all’ and it is only implied, not a full confession or claiming all fault. Jennifer’s wording also avoids blaming anyone else, she didn’t say her date ditched her.
So as far as Raidah should ACTUALLY know, Jennifer could have any level of fault from 1% to 100% and that is as far as she actually knows. She doesn’t know if anyone else did anything wrong and even if Jennifer does blame them, that blame may be unfair just because she is in a bad mood.
Raidah’s response obviously is more about her feelings about Sarah but I was pointing out why it was ill-fitting for the actual scenario. And she’s lucky she still has her teeth afterwards. Suggesting someone’s friends aren’t good enough with no info on what actually happened to someone physically violent could easily backfire by infuriating them into deciding you deserve less teeth.
I read that as more of an invitation than a instruction. Just casual language.
But Raidah is being subtle here. She’s preying on an obvious moment of weakness to feed into Billie’s emotions and make it seem like she’ll be supportive.
Sarah’s been consistently a jerk to Jennifer. I think the only time they really got along was pranking Dorothy and Walky. Correct me if I’m mistaken?
Yup, Sarah decided Jennifer was a bad influence on Joyce and pretty much hated her from the start.
To be fair, Sarah isn’t really wrong about that, is she?
Hard to say. When I think of the worst things Joyce has done over the course of this comic, nothing that was influenced by Jennifer springs to mind. Mostly, they’ve come out of her toxic religious upbringing (dating a gay guy to convert him to heterosexuality) or in one notable case, Sarah (trying to break up Jacob and Raidah).
Jennifer did admittedly tell Sarah that she thought it would be great if Joyce started following her lead in terms of behavior, and I can see why that alarmed Sarah, given what a trash fire Jennifer’s choices generally amount to, but Jennifer also abandoned any interest in molding Joyce as a person fairly quickly, probably because she got fully caught up in her drama with Ruth, and wasn’t chasing the self-esteem boost she’d get from having Joyce as a Project after that.
tl;dr the concern was not unfounded, but I don’t think that friendship has actually done Joyce any harm to date. And it was certainly one of Jennifer’s healthier relationships in college.
Hah, I see what Raida did there. She might be saying that Billie deserves better treatment, but she’s really saying Billingsworth deserves better, non-nerd friends. I am glad Raida got to learn all about her favorite minor Star Wars character.
Oh hey, it’s this fucking cretin. Now I’m glad she actually hates Billie, she deserves that self-inflicted torment.
[No less than 20 emojis] “UwU I’m liek soooo grown up u gaiiiz omg 4 real and u should liek……hang out w/ meeee? & nawt those loserrrs?” That’s basically her schtick and it’s insufferable. Well-written and extremely realistic but absolutely insufferable. I sincerely hope every real person like her never finds genuine happiness, at least until they learn to act like decent human beings.
There’s too many flashbacks X(
Raida’s costume is a controlling manipulator.
Said the spider to the fly…