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Yeah… no. Don’t sell your traumas, kids. It just gets exploitative after a while. And you can never live up to others’ expectations for “how brave you must be.”
…And I am quite guilty of this practice, myself, until I realized how very hollow it was, and how much better I felt when I decided to keep certain life events private.
…If anything, all the applicant is doing is alerting the prospective employer or grantor or educational institution to the potential need to accommodate PTSD.
Which is fine, and sometimes what one wants to give a heads-up on, to be sure that accommodations will be in place.
But to see experience of trauma as a “selling point” only sells one’s other personal strengths short. …And there will ALWAYS be someone who comes along who’s more traumatized or whose trauma is more “authentic”.
…OK, sorry, sorry, I’ll get off my hobby-horse now. I just saw a little too much of my younger self in Dorothy and wanted to reach back and give some advice from age.
Yeah, the selling point practice, it can get REALLY toxic.
I sure hope we can move towards a society that removes the incentive to quite literally capitalize trauma like this, it just brings out the worse in everyone involved. At least in my experience.
I apologize, too, for the thread-jack. I keep trying to keep talk on topic and yet so many tendrils keep sneaking in from the sides. Did not mean to intervene where intervention is unnecessary.
NG, thanks for expressing appreciation. BTW, I don’t use pronouns. All good, just thought youse folks should know.
I’ve had PTSD/depression for so long they’re more like personality traits you wish you could get rid of than mental illnesses. I mean I got the PTSD during Nixon’s first term, which led to the depression during Watergate through the Ford administration, when it set in permanently. That’s why getting killed by the pickup truck didn’t have any additional effect, I was already as damaged as I could get without dying (again).
Well, yeah. And I’m a firm believer in using every advantage, every possible piece of leverage available. Turning every setback into an opportunity, as Dorothy might say.
And there’s absolutely no reason why people shouldn’t get good things by highlighting what strengths set them apart from others, and what challenges have taught them those strengths.
It’s just when one starts to objectify oneself as nothing more than “the sum of one’s trials,” that one can start to lose sight of one’s own innate strengths that exist wholly outside of one’s trauma.
Oh, yeah, it was awful! Talk about putting trauma on display!
8-|
But yeah, MASSIVE trigger warning, there.
Just a warning to Dorothy, that the Ivies are not actually known for being accommodating to survivors of trauma. I know a few Ivy Leaguers who got badly burned at their universities after asking for mental health accommodations.
I do apologize for and empathize with how reading an article like that can kind of knock a person flat, for a while. I am sorry for bringing distress. (Almost didn’t post it for that reason, and perhaps should have listened to that warning voice better and not posted it.) I hope you’re doing OK.
Take good care of yourself, maybe drink some tea? It’s important to watch out for vicarious trauma after reading ugly stuff.
So far, Dorothy has watched Amber stab a dude hard enough to require long-term hospitalization, gotten kidnapped and tossed into a basement, used emotional manipulation a little too far and successfully distracted a guy into murdering his partner, and then watched her best friend get kidnapped again, by said murderer.
It would be pretty interesting to see the survivors in group therapy.
Might help them.
These 2 guys and their Batman figurines remind me a lot of Amber and Amazi-Girl (which autocorrect keeps changing to “Amazon Girl” — fitting, in more ways than one!).
If nothing else, Dorothy is confident that she will be the president one day and self-belief is good for you. Just don’t base your life on assuming you will be president one day.
Honestly, I wish we could do a Dumbing of Age bonus strip where Dorothy witnesses the much better candidate lose to the much-much worse one. It would be an interesting reality check.
But I imagine Dorothy doesn’t believe that could ever happen to her.
She should. She essentially lost that campaign for RA that she and Roz imagined up when Ruth went on that near comatose depression incident. If I’m remembering that right. She also realized Becky got an unfair inside track to a fledgling political career by hijacking a local congresswoman’s twitter account. She knows the game is rigged she just hasn’t figured out how to rig it in her favor.
I’m not sure Dorothy has decided to try to rig the game in her favor though. That just doesn’t seem to me like her personality. I think rather that she’s in the grip of sunk-cost fallacy.
She’s made wanting to be president so central to everything she does in life and she refuses to give up on that dream. Evidence that the political game is not fair and that she may not actually be very good at it definitely disturbs her, but not enough yet to seriously re-evaluate her goals.
Though I could be wrong about that. Or maybe we’re both right. We’ll see!
There’s a good argument Dorothy’s biggest problem is that she’s probably not going to find President what she actually wants. A President is primarily a leader of a party platform and needs to be elected based on their communal desires as well as deal making (then sold to the American people). They’re not actually a person who gets to set their own agenda as a rule.
The key issue with Dorothy is that she is earnest, straight-forward, competent and well-meaning. Politicians are by definition underhanded manipulators who will throw any kind of dirt on the opposition to win. Dotty has no life in politics, she is too good a person.
This comment wasn’t mean was it? I was rereading it and I think it may have come off as derogatory rather than just an attempt show that someone has seen your fun comment. Sorry.
Straight as an arrow with a pronounced curve to it. Joyce is very easy to read as an incredibly repressed bisexual who rationalizes that the way she feels around certain girls is perfectly ordinary platonic friendship while deep in the throws of saphic romance.
I’ve floated/seen others float the headcanon of Joyce as possibly-biromantic heterosexual for a while now, myself. It helps to remember that there’s a romantic-orientation axis too (and that it can diverge from the sexual-orientation one—see people on the ace spectrum who still experience romantic attraction for example), not just a sexual-orientation one!
Maybe an “above the waist” lesbian as Jamie puts it.
I can imagine her ending up with Joe in teh endgame/long run but I can also see a version of Joyce where she’s enjoying holding hands with a girl and hugging w/o it being too physical or a ‘bambi’ lesbian or so if that terms still around
It always amuses me when someone brings this ship up and every starts talking about the signs they read as Joyce being bi as if that’s all that’s necessary. Dorothy’s orientation doesn’t seem to relevant somehow.
Well she’s already brushing spin techniques. Every future president needs that. Blaine didn’t’ kidnap a bunch of people, he just gave them an opportunity to practice critical problem solving!
to be fair, it was advice from her therapist (tho i wonder how helpful that is in the long term, i assume they’ll spend time processing and talking through the trauma as opposed to “ok just do this, move on”) tho we all do need to cope and survive in our own ways
I hope Dorothy was *massively* misinterpreting her therapist there. Or applying an older piece of advice in a way the therapist would never have expected or condoned.
Spinning a job loss or rejected application this way: yes.
Spinning a kidnapping this way: uh, no????
I’m imagining the interviewer asking further questions about however she decides to phrase it on her resume and then being slightly horrified by her answer.
I assume that will be the party’s theme. It’s why Ethan wasn’t invited. He is in mourning that he couldn’t be the one to defeat Mike as was his destiny.
I’m still not convinced Mike didn’t just go into witness protection and shall return in 4th act as the final twist antagonist. Ethan may get his chance yet.
Yeah. There’s a lot that Dorothy can take pride in for how she responded to the whole abduction stuff, she did a good job with being a leader in a heavy crisis moment, there’s stuff that’s actually there and tangible that she could lean on instead of just “a learning experience”.
It might’ve been. You can pretty easily get a non trauma informed therapist who treats actual trauma like normal life challenges and tries to get you to reframe a horrible event as a positive learning lesson or whatever. Not all therapists are competent.
(I had one when I was a teen who tried to get me to identify things I could’ve done differently to avoid some child abuse I experience as a young child. Tried to reframe abuse as a “learning lesson” and talk about how it “benefitted” me and yeah. It was bad.)
The only kind of therapy that would “solve” trauma would be the one that made it never happen in the first place. All we can do is try to get “over” it, get around it, learn from it, accept it, etc.
Also, I’d like to see Dorothy end up President but the evidence from the strip so far is she won’t make the cut. I think she could make it to a state Supreme Court or get to a fed judgeship, maybe appellate level.
Of course, with the sliding time scale we wouldn’t find out until well after the energy death of the universe.
The issue for me is, particularly if it’s a violent trauma – like you were a victim of a crime or something – it can be very easy for “learn from it” framing to enter victim blaming territory or to reinforce the self blame that’s a common reaction to traumatic experiences. That can pretty easily get you into a mental health death spiral if your brain is already predisposed to guilt and self blame. Having a therapist who is actually competent with trauma is so important in these cases.
Give each candidate a knife and a heart rate monitor, then lock them in a room with C-1 electronic locks (C=total number of candidates). Every time a monitor flatlines, one of the locks opens. Whoever walks out when the door opens gets the job.
I came up with this plan during a particularly nasty congressional race several years back. Both candidates were horrible and their ads were inescapable. Worst part? The election was in a neighboring state, so it wasn’t like I could have voted for either of these idiots anyway.
I remember reading a blog post somewhere where the premise was “all the presidents in a battle royale to the death,” and I’m like 99 percent sure Teddy won.
Between executive overreach, legislative irresponsibility and excessive judicial deference, the Presidency already looks way too much like an elected monarchy.
1.Not every “victory” isn’t something dashia no matter how triumphant it…unless she’s applying to be a part of the CIA then in this case yeah this would help.
2. Dorothy could pull off velma dinkly she had a brunette wig, though she could have also passed as super girl if she wanted to but so could Joyce so I don’t know.
There’s an old joke about 3 CIA job applicants.
After their interviews, the interviewer says, “One last task: take this sealed envelope up to HR on the top floor and drop it off.”
Two applicants hop in the elevator, pop on up to the top floor, and drop off the envelope. HR says, “Thank you, we’ll be in touch.”
Third applicant ducks up the fire stairs, sneaks into the employee break room, uses the electric kettle on the counter there to steam open the envelope without breaking the seal. Inside, is just a piece of paper that reads, “You’re hired.”
Anything that has Harlan Ellison as a major character, Lewis Black as a voice actor, includes Hannibal Lecter Yogi, and presents the canon origin of the entire Hanna-Barbera universe cannot be overrated.
Depends on what you mean by overrated. I love Mystery Incorporated and find it a nearly perfect version of the Scooby form. Fred alone would make me believe that.
But! I will agree with you (fixating on how mean Scooby himself is sometimes and the fact that Velma is pretty genuinely the worst on a very consistent basis) IF you grant that Be Cool Scooby Doo is under-rated or that there should never be actual monsters/supernatural in Scooby anything.
Yeah I say “half the main characters” but 99% of the problems I have with the show are Velma problems. There’s just her being awful constantly, but also the whole Velma / Hot Dog Water ship in the fandom led me to believe these two characters would have meaningful interaction in the actual story, and there’s just nothing there. I was very disappointed
Honestly the monsters and lore were one of the few things I really enjoyed about Mystery Incorporated. If the show’s characterization and humor had been better I would’ve loved it
A lot of the problems that most SD iterations have are characterization, IMO. If it’s not Velma being awful, it’s Shaggy being dumb. If you watch the original SD, he was genuinely quite witty, at least by the standards of the day. There are few Shaggy things more annoying to me than him being stupid in addition to a coward. He should be only the latter. (This is where Be Cool Scooby Doo gets good grades from me – Velma is entertaining rather than awful, Shaggy genuinely both has brain cells and is known to use them, Scooby is always a Good Boy.)
Mystery Inc.’s value is in being measured up to the rest of this highly enduring trash pit of an IP, rather than how good it is on its own merits. A number of its best character pieces come in the context of “wow, they did that with *this*? amazing!”
Definitely watchable though, and I’m pretty sure the lack of non-subtext onscreen gay rep was a network-overruling-writers thing so eh.
Is that the one where Daphne is kind of… insane? I know they go pretty silly with some stuff but I only watched a few bits in passing (family was watching, not youtube clips) and Daphne seemed like she was really off her rocker.
Dorothy being the first one to reference the kidnapping and also completely block it out of her memory as the horrific incident that it was is so on point.
well, i can imagine someone saying “i wanna be president” but idk if i necessarily trust a young kid/teen saying they wanna get into politics overall haha but maybe it was more common back then. Now it would be more concerning unless it’s like “i’m getting into politics to clean up /some/ of the shitstorm the previous generation left behind”
UK answer here, the most politically inclined and motivated person I recall from 18 is now a very senior banker in SE Asia, so nowhere close to their ambition, but very likely the most powerful person I’ve sat in a classroom with.
I wanted to be ruler of the world or something like that when I was a teenager. I’m now 33 and work in retail, so you can see how far I got with that ambition.
I wanted to be a superhero as a kid, but after getting hit 3 times by pickup trucks hard enough to total out the truck and walking away with scuffs and bruises and badly torn clothing from the first 2 and broken bones and injuries that left huge scars and should have killed me from the third, I already was. I just never got a chance to play the hero with my powers.
While we’re on the subject the 21st anniversary of my death by truck-kun is coming up the 31st of next month. I’ll be old enough to drink a second time. I’m a bit slower to move around this time than I was the first time I turned 21.
I love that — “truck-kun”. The truck is your respected junior. Fitting!
That truck didn’t know what hit it!
Doonesbury had a recent Sunday comic on celebrating the anniversary of your “Alive Day.”
A friend who was hit by a slow-moving train celebrates her “victory over train day.”
I hope it is a joyful day for you. One where you get to recognize how appreciated and valued you are, and how lucky the world is to have YOU still in it.
…Not to tell you what that day should mean for you, of course! I just mean that you have much to be proud of and I hope it is a good day for you.
You ARE a superhero, Opus! And you use those super powers EVERY DAY. You are a good writer and an insightful commenter, and resilient as all get-out. You have much to be proud of in how you have used your superpowers.
For some reason the flashback-blue color palette makes this look extra adorable to me. I think it might be related to the fact that back in the day I spent a lot of time reading Count Your Sheep to cheer myself up during difficult patches of grad school.
…Dorothy, are you sure you talked to a therapist? Sounds like career coach talk. I wouldn’t put it past Dorothy to never go to Feelings Therapy, except she *did*, when Amber mauled the shit out of that guy. So I don’t know what her issue is..
Sunds more like she knows it sounds upsetting in a cheery way, like joking around, and that shows she doesn’t have real coping mechanisms beyond “everything is fine!!!1!!1! haha!”
I imagine that Dorothy’s therapist had their hands full with ‘you got kidnapped’ and hasn’t resolved the ‘building your life around a goal that’s entirely outside your control’. Once Dorothy can accept that she might not make President, even if she sacrifices everything else for that goal, I think she’d be pretty healthy otherwise.
love the art style/haven’t gotten into it but timeline wise i wouldn’t expect teh spinoff cartoon to be a thing yet unless the existence of all the relevant media/name drops are just put in whenever the author feels like it and not necessarily accurate
Question: am I the only one seeing something… odd about these flashback strips? Dorothy and Sarah’s lines feel… off. As if they aren’t really speaking like themselves, but rather like… Joyce’s mental picture of them? Am I just reading too much into things?
Was. Was that bit therapist advice possibly given before the kidnapping to a situation where it would have been vaguely reasonable? And Dorothy is just applying it in a horrifying way?
…NGL, President Dinkley solving mysteries with her pot-smoked kinda-boyfriend from college, his talking dog kept alive through sacrifices to a pagan god, and the couple they both knew back in the day, is a show I’d totally watch.
what’s really interesting is that more likely than not both Joyce’s pastor and Dorothy’s therapist meant this phrase in a different way, but Joyce and Dorothy have come up with a very similar interpretation
Thank you for sharing this. The difference between healthy optimism and toxic positivity is a lot more important and overlooked than most people realize. A necessary read!!!
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costumes you have to explain are kinda crap tho, regardless of the fine quality of pantsuit
that, or everyone just assumes “Hillary”
bc, pantsuit
First Lady Hot Dog Water
…every time I think I can’t ship Joyce and Dorothy any more than I already do, something happens to prove me wrong.
Joyothy supporters, UNITE! <3
Hillary Dinkley
Vellary Clinkley.
has a certain ring to it.
picks up the rice in a church where a wedding has been
She wore the orange Velma sweater over the pants suit to make it obvious.
Wouldn’t be the first time somebody’s drawn that parallel.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/04-it-all-returns/miss/
Costumes that you have to explain are fine, as long it’s an excuse to deliver a really awesome pun.
Joyce is Disney’s Rapunzel, yes? When would she have had the time to see it?
The movie’s only like 2 hours long?
like Edgar Allen Poe Dameron?
“I didn’t experience horrible trauma! I participated in the acquisition of material for future emotional breakthroughs in therapy!”
Yeah I find that second panel to be quite disturbing
Same. “I wasn’t assaulted, I was taught a lesson!”
yeah. I need to have a word with dorothy’s therapist about toxic positivity.
Don’t forget witnessed a murder. If a hostage situation is good on a resume just imagine how impressed potential employers will be with that!
Yeah… no. Don’t sell your traumas, kids. It just gets exploitative after a while. And you can never live up to others’ expectations for “how brave you must be.”
Nobody wins the competitive trauma race.
Interesting article on the pitfalls of “selling” one’s trauma for college and scholarship applications, etc.
(MASSIVE trigger warning…)
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/04/04/mackenzie-fierceton-rhodes-scholarship-university-of-pennsylvania
…And I am quite guilty of this practice, myself, until I realized how very hollow it was, and how much better I felt when I decided to keep certain life events private.
…If anything, all the applicant is doing is alerting the prospective employer or grantor or educational institution to the potential need to accommodate PTSD.
Which is fine, and sometimes what one wants to give a heads-up on, to be sure that accommodations will be in place.
But to see experience of trauma as a “selling point” only sells one’s other personal strengths short. …And there will ALWAYS be someone who comes along who’s more traumatized or whose trauma is more “authentic”.
There’s a Doonesbury comic strip about the trauma Olympics:
https://www.gocomics.com/doonesbury/2006/12/14
…OK, sorry, sorry, I’ll get off my hobby-horse now. I just saw a little too much of my younger self in Dorothy and wanted to reach back and give some advice from age.
YES to all of this Laura, thank you for sharing!
Yeah, the selling point practice, it can get REALLY toxic.
I sure hope we can move towards a society that removes the incentive to quite literally capitalize trauma like this, it just brings out the worse in everyone involved. At least in my experience.
I apologize, too, for the thread-jack. I keep trying to keep talk on topic and yet so many tendrils keep sneaking in from the sides. Did not mean to intervene where intervention is unnecessary.
NG, thanks for expressing appreciation. BTW, I don’t use pronouns. All good, just thought youse folks should know.
D’oh! Replied to the wrong comment. Sleepy. G’night, all!
Oops. Sorry about the pronouns.
if it makes you feel any better, i feel like a clumsy mess right now. Also, thank you.
I feel tired too. Going to sleep….
No worries at all, NG. Sleep well, rest well, and take good care of yourself.
I’ve had PTSD/depression for so long they’re more like personality traits you wish you could get rid of than mental illnesses. I mean I got the PTSD during Nixon’s first term, which led to the depression during Watergate through the Ford administration, when it set in permanently. That’s why getting killed by the pickup truck didn’t have any additional effect, I was already as damaged as I could get without dying (again).
I hear that, Opus! I hear you.
As Dina would say, *expresses concern by light physical contact on an in-bathing-suit area.*
@Laura: OH no… I have to assume you meant “non-bathing-suit area” or something to that effect, but the typo did make me laugh.
D’oh! *Facepalm.* *blushes* SMDH. Oh NO! I am SOOO sorry, Opus! Gaaah… autocorrect and clumsy thumbs on a tiny cell phone are conspiring for my doom. Yes, I meant it ONLY as Dina did:
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/03-when-god-closes-the-door/comfort/
…On a NON-bathing suit area! Eep! Please, flag my typos into oblivion!!! 8-|
Oh, hej, here’s the DOA equivalent on trauma-topping:
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2020/comic/book-10/03-when-it-crumbles/unaccounted/
Huh. Reply wound up in the wrong place. Sorry!
T_T I relate a lot to this student’s story. I’m probably not going to finish reading the article.
you’re absolutely correct, but also hey I at least can get something nice out of the horrible experiences I suffered, it’s
SOMETHING
Well, yeah. And I’m a firm believer in using every advantage, every possible piece of leverage available. Turning every setback into an opportunity, as Dorothy might say.
And there’s absolutely no reason why people shouldn’t get good things by highlighting what strengths set them apart from others, and what challenges have taught them those strengths.
It’s just when one starts to objectify oneself as nothing more than “the sum of one’s trials,” that one can start to lose sight of one’s own innate strengths that exist wholly outside of one’s trauma.
Like in this comic:
https://asofterworld.com/index.php?id=911
“The terrible things that happened to you
Didn’t make you you.
You always were.”
Fucking hell, that article was brutal.
Oh, yeah, it was awful! Talk about putting trauma on display!
8-|
But yeah, MASSIVE trigger warning, there.
Just a warning to Dorothy, that the Ivies are not actually known for being accommodating to survivors of trauma. I know a few Ivy Leaguers who got badly burned at their universities after asking for mental health accommodations.
I do apologize for and empathize with how reading an article like that can kind of knock a person flat, for a while. I am sorry for bringing distress. (Almost didn’t post it for that reason, and perhaps should have listened to that warning voice better and not posted it.) I hope you’re doing OK.
Take good care of yourself, maybe drink some tea? It’s important to watch out for vicarious trauma after reading ugly stuff.
So far, Dorothy has watched Amber stab a dude hard enough to require long-term hospitalization, gotten kidnapped and tossed into a basement, used emotional manipulation a little too far and successfully distracted a guy into murdering his partner, and then watched her best friend get kidnapped again, by said murderer.
Honestly, I have no idea how they all are doing this well.
It’s because they are fictional characters.
It would be pretty interesting to see the survivors in group therapy.
Might help them.
These 2 guys and their Batman figurines remind me a lot of Amber and Amazi-Girl (which autocorrect keeps changing to “Amazon Girl” — fitting, in more ways than one!).
https://www.gocomics.com/doonesbury/2006/12/15
Oh, sorry! Spoiler for military trauma in the link.
To quote Finn:
“That’s going in the vault- Annnd it’s gone”
Don’t forget she also had a front row seat for that time Amber julienned Druggo McScarface.
“Where do you see yourself in five years?”
“Tied up in a basement watching someone getting his brains bashed in with a hammer.”
If nothing else, Dorothy is confident that she will be the president one day and self-belief is good for you. Just don’t base your life on assuming you will be president one day.
Honestly, I wish we could do a Dumbing of Age bonus strip where Dorothy witnesses the much better candidate lose to the much-much worse one. It would be an interesting reality check.
But I imagine Dorothy doesn’t believe that could ever happen to her.
She should. She essentially lost that campaign for RA that she and Roz imagined up when Ruth went on that near comatose depression incident. If I’m remembering that right. She also realized Becky got an unfair inside track to a fledgling political career by hijacking a local congresswoman’s twitter account. She knows the game is rigged she just hasn’t figured out how to rig it in her favor.
Thanks for reminding us of all that out Sirksome.
I’m not sure Dorothy has decided to try to rig the game in her favor though. That just doesn’t seem to me like her personality. I think rather that she’s in the grip of sunk-cost fallacy.
She’s made wanting to be president so central to everything she does in life and she refuses to give up on that dream. Evidence that the political game is not fair and that she may not actually be very good at it definitely disturbs her, but not enough yet to seriously re-evaluate her goals.
Though I could be wrong about that. Or maybe we’re both right. We’ll see!
There’s a new novel out on that theme: “Tracy Flick Can’t Win”
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/58977852-tracy-flick-can-t-win
It’s a sequel to the Reese Witherspoon movie, “Election”. About how youngsters’ political ambitions can get thwarted with time.
That would be a super interesting arc.
I think Dorothy just doesn’t have it, her instincts are badly suited for politics and she doesn’t take to it naturally in the way Becky and Roz do.
To my mind that’s a compliment, but if you want to be president someday, that might be a hard thing to swallow
There’s a good argument Dorothy’s biggest problem is that she’s probably not going to find President what she actually wants. A President is primarily a leader of a party platform and needs to be elected based on their communal desires as well as deal making (then sold to the American people). They’re not actually a person who gets to set their own agenda as a rule.
The key issue with Dorothy is that she is earnest, straight-forward, competent and well-meaning. Politicians are by definition underhanded manipulators who will throw any kind of dirt on the opposition to win. Dotty has no life in politics, she is too good a person.
i don’t keep up with foreign politics but i wouldn’t be surprised if another country had a female president before the US does
They have.
We don’t need one. She was alive for 2016.
Also, pick a better life goal than being part of the corrupt ruling class
…I think my shipping goggles are permanently attached to my head at this point WRT these two.
Ehhh… I’m pretty sure Joyce is straight and as much as I like Dorothy I think her current life trajectory ends with her dying alone.
This comment wasn’t mean was it? I was rereading it and I think it may have come off as derogatory rather than just an attempt show that someone has seen your fun comment. Sorry.
Nah, it’s all cool! I’ve done the same thing.
Straight as an arrow with a pronounced curve to it. Joyce is very easy to read as an incredibly repressed bisexual who rationalizes that the way she feels around certain girls is perfectly ordinary platonic friendship while deep in the throws of saphic romance.
I’ve floated/seen others float the headcanon of Joyce as possibly-biromantic heterosexual for a while now, myself. It helps to remember that there’s a romantic-orientation axis too (and that it can diverge from the sexual-orientation one—see people on the ace spectrum who still experience romantic attraction for example), not just a sexual-orientation one!
She was pretty enchanted with “Billie”‘s chest, though!
Hmmm… gets lost in moderation limbo.
Here’s the reference link:
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/03-answers-in-hennessy/curiosity/
Joyce’s cherishing of “breathing the same air” as Dorothy says she’s straight-up bi, in my book.
Biromantic – it doesn’t say anything about sexuality.
https://www.girlswithslingshots.com/comic/gws-chaser-537
Maybe an “above the waist” lesbian as Jamie puts it.
I can imagine her ending up with Joe in teh endgame/long run but I can also see a version of Joyce where she’s enjoying holding hands with a girl and hugging w/o it being too physical or a ‘bambi’ lesbian or so if that terms still around
As Joyce herself puts it, “Dealing with any parts below the neck”
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/02-threes-a-crowd/foranybody/
I call those people “Boobiesexual”.
(oops, accidental ‘Flag’, sorry)
Dorothy seems straighter than Joyce, honestly.
It always amuses me when someone brings this ship up and every starts talking about the signs they read as Joyce being bi as if that’s all that’s necessary. Dorothy’s orientation doesn’t seem to relevant somehow.
Well she’s already brushing spin techniques. Every future president needs that. Blaine didn’t’ kidnap a bunch of people, he just gave them an opportunity to practice critical problem solving!
to be fair, it was advice from her therapist (tho i wonder how helpful that is in the long term, i assume they’ll spend time processing and talking through the trauma as opposed to “ok just do this, move on”) tho we all do need to cope and survive in our own ways
I hope Dorothy was *massively* misinterpreting her therapist there. Or applying an older piece of advice in a way the therapist would never have expected or condoned.
Spinning a job loss or rejected application this way: yes.
Spinning a kidnapping this way: uh, no????
I’m imagining the interviewer asking further questions about however she decides to phrase it on her resume and then being slightly horrified by her answer.
CELEBRATE
CELEBRATE
DANCE TO THE DEATH OF MIKE
I assume that will be the party’s theme. It’s why Ethan wasn’t invited. He is in mourning that he couldn’t be the one to defeat Mike as was his destiny.
Clearly the Tome of the Ages was misinterpreted.
I’m still not convinced Mike didn’t just go into witness protection and shall return in 4th act as the final twist antagonist. Ethan may get his chance yet.
*This is a joke not a real theory*
Always remember, “Jennifer” is actually Mike.
It’s true. The “Mike” who tackled Blaine off the building was actually Billie in a hyper-realistic Mike suit that makes everyone look like Mary.
The fact that making everyone look like Mary is something that Mike would have liked to have done is what makes this so plausible.
Serious question: I wonder how much of Ethan going off the rails is the realization Mike’s feelings for him were romantic.
And now that can never be explored.
Why can’t it be explored?
Because a corpse can’t love you back.
…In this universe.
True that.
I… do not think that’s what the therapist meant
Yeah. There’s a lot that Dorothy can take pride in for how she responded to the whole abduction stuff, she did a good job with being a leader in a heavy crisis moment, there’s stuff that’s actually there and tangible that she could lean on instead of just “a learning experience”.
Still, if its helping her…
It might’ve been. You can pretty easily get a non trauma informed therapist who treats actual trauma like normal life challenges and tries to get you to reframe a horrible event as a positive learning lesson or whatever. Not all therapists are competent.
(I had one when I was a teen who tried to get me to identify things I could’ve done differently to avoid some child abuse I experience as a young child. Tried to reframe abuse as a “learning lesson” and talk about how it “benefitted” me and yeah. It was bad.)
The only kind of therapy that would “solve” trauma would be the one that made it never happen in the first place. All we can do is try to get “over” it, get around it, learn from it, accept it, etc.
Also, I’d like to see Dorothy end up President but the evidence from the strip so far is she won’t make the cut. I think she could make it to a state Supreme Court or get to a fed judgeship, maybe appellate level.
Of course, with the sliding time scale we wouldn’t find out until well after the energy death of the universe.
The issue for me is, particularly if it’s a violent trauma – like you were a victim of a crime or something – it can be very easy for “learn from it” framing to enter victim blaming territory or to reinforce the self blame that’s a common reaction to traumatic experiences. That can pretty easily get you into a mental health death spiral if your brain is already predisposed to guilt and self blame. Having a therapist who is actually competent with trauma is so important in these cases.
*Shudder* gaah! How awful! I am so sorry you went through that! Yuck yuck yuck. I do hope things are much better now.
*summoning circle for Yoto to create a Velma Dinkley Dorothy*
Dorothy should just forget her costume and everyone will assume she’s gone as Amber.
And then Amber can show up without a costume going as Dorothy.
One of them might even be doing it intentionally.
Dorothy goes as Amber.
Amber goes as Amazi-Girl.
Damn it, accidental flag.
Anyway I was going to say just as long as Amazi-girl doesn’t show up dressed as Amber. That would be bad.
Dorothy dressing up as a character who’s famous for being shortsighted feels like some kind of meta commentary.
I’m glad someone said it.
Personally, I think we should hold a big fighting tournament every four years and whoever wins becomes president.
See, I prefer a calmer breath-holding competition.
No-holds-barred and nothing-forbidden, or you planning to institute some rules?
No weapons, winner is determined by either knockout, out of bounds, or tapping out.
Give each candidate a knife and a heart rate monitor, then lock them in a room with C-1 electronic locks (C=total number of candidates). Every time a monitor flatlines, one of the locks opens. Whoever walks out when the door opens gets the job.
I came up with this plan during a particularly nasty congressional race several years back. Both candidates were horrible and their ads were inescapable. Worst part? The election was in a neighboring state, so it wasn’t like I could have voted for either of these idiots anyway.
Teddy Roosevelt would probably have agreed
I remember reading a blog post somewhere where the premise was “all the presidents in a battle royale to the death,” and I’m like 99 percent sure Teddy won.
Now I kinda want to run the Hunger Games Simulator but with US presidents slotted into all the roles.
I’m sorry, but Lincoln was a vampire hunter, he’s obviously the winner.
That’s how you get kings. Do you want kings?
Americans already kneel before anybody surnamed Kennedy, what’s the difference?
Between executive overreach, legislative irresponsibility and excessive judicial deference, the Presidency already looks way too much like an elected monarchy.
It gives me a very big grin that she wants Dorothy in a pantsuit THAT MUCH.
I have questions. But not all of them are directly about this. And feel like the answers might leave me wanting more. But I still want them anyway?
1.Not every “victory” isn’t something dashia no matter how triumphant it…unless she’s applying to be a part of the CIA then in this case yeah this would help.
2. Dorothy could pull off velma dinkly she had a brunette wig, though she could have also passed as super girl if she wanted to but so could Joyce so I don’t know.
There’s an old joke about 3 CIA job applicants.
After their interviews, the interviewer says, “One last task: take this sealed envelope up to HR on the top floor and drop it off.”
Two applicants hop in the elevator, pop on up to the top floor, and drop off the envelope. HR says, “Thank you, we’ll be in touch.”
Third applicant ducks up the fire stairs, sneaks into the employee break room, uses the electric kettle on the counter there to steam open the envelope without breaking the seal. Inside, is just a piece of paper that reads, “You’re hired.”
Nice.
Scooby-Doo: Mystery Incorporated is overrated, discuss
So you have chosen violence.
SPOILERS!
Anything that has Harlan Ellison as a major character, Lewis Black as a voice actor, includes Hannibal
LecterYogi, and presents the canon origin of the entire Hanna-Barbera universe cannot be overrated.It can when half the main characters are completely unbearable
Depends on what you mean by overrated. I love Mystery Incorporated and find it a nearly perfect version of the Scooby form. Fred alone would make me believe that.
But! I will agree with you (fixating on how mean Scooby himself is sometimes and the fact that Velma is pretty genuinely the worst on a very consistent basis) IF you grant that Be Cool Scooby Doo is under-rated or that there should never be actual monsters/supernatural in Scooby anything.
Yeah I say “half the main characters” but 99% of the problems I have with the show are Velma problems. There’s just her being awful constantly, but also the whole Velma / Hot Dog Water ship in the fandom led me to believe these two characters would have meaningful interaction in the actual story, and there’s just nothing there. I was very disappointed
Honestly the monsters and lore were one of the few things I really enjoyed about Mystery Incorporated. If the show’s characterization and humor had been better I would’ve loved it
A lot of the problems that most SD iterations have are characterization, IMO. If it’s not Velma being awful, it’s Shaggy being dumb. If you watch the original SD, he was genuinely quite witty, at least by the standards of the day. There are few Shaggy things more annoying to me than him being stupid in addition to a coward. He should be only the latter. (This is where Be Cool Scooby Doo gets good grades from me – Velma is entertaining rather than awful, Shaggy genuinely both has brain cells and is known to use them, Scooby is always a Good Boy.)
SD:MI was ok.
Be Cool, Scooby-Doo! is my favorite of the recent ones.
Of course my all time favorite Scooby-Doo episode is the Futurama spoof.
I adore Be Cool Scooby Doo. It was hilarious and fun and weird.
Nah, Mystery Inc. is very good
Mystery Inc.’s value is in being measured up to the rest of this highly enduring trash pit of an IP, rather than how good it is on its own merits. A number of its best character pieces come in the context of “wow, they did that with *this*? amazing!”
Definitely watchable though, and I’m pretty sure the lack of non-subtext onscreen gay rep was a network-overruling-writers thing so eh.
I disagree, but I am biased on account that Scooby-Doo made up like 33% of my childhood up until middle school.
I am also fan of a Scooby-Doo game almost nobody talks about or remembers.
Free avatar commission to whoever can guess it, maybe. I dunno, I’m just bored.
Is that the one where Daphne is kind of… insane? I know they go pretty silly with some stuff but I only watched a few bits in passing (family was watching, not youtube clips) and Daphne seemed like she was really off her rocker.
You’re entitled to your wrong opinion
Dude, I wanna see Velma!Dorothy. That’s awesome.
Consider this: This was a costume from high school, right? Daphne!Danny. Couples costume.
On the other hand, Danny/Joe as Shaggy/Scooby.
Buy the collected books. They got all kinds of goodies.
I have them. I would like to see Velma!Dorothy return.
Buy them twice. Just in case they can help ward off vampires.
Dorothy being the first one to reference the kidnapping and also completely block it out of her memory as the horrific incident that it was is so on point.
Vote Dinkley-Mars 20XX
I wonder how many kids at 18 actually have ambition to be president and get even like, halfway to it
One of my high school classmates had that ambition and I just looked him up, and he does in fact currently work at the White House! Huh.
well, i can imagine someone saying “i wanna be president” but idk if i necessarily trust a young kid/teen saying they wanna get into politics overall haha but maybe it was more common back then. Now it would be more concerning unless it’s like “i’m getting into politics to clean up /some/ of the shitstorm the previous generation left behind”
UK answer here, the most politically inclined and motivated person I recall from 18 is now a very senior banker in SE Asia, so nowhere close to their ambition, but very likely the most powerful person I’ve sat in a classroom with.
I wanted to be ruler of the world or something like that when I was a teenager. I’m now 33 and work in retail, so you can see how far I got with that ambition.
I wanted to be a superhero as a kid, but after getting hit 3 times by pickup trucks hard enough to total out the truck and walking away with scuffs and bruises and badly torn clothing from the first 2 and broken bones and injuries that left huge scars and should have killed me from the third, I already was. I just never got a chance to play the hero with my powers.
While we’re on the subject the 21st anniversary of my death by truck-kun is coming up the 31st of next month. I’ll be old enough to drink a second time. I’m a bit slower to move around this time than I was the first time I turned 21.
I love that — “truck-kun”. The truck is your respected junior. Fitting!
That truck didn’t know what hit it!
Doonesbury had a recent Sunday comic on celebrating the anniversary of your “Alive Day.”
A friend who was hit by a slow-moving train celebrates her “victory over train day.”
I hope it is a joyful day for you. One where you get to recognize how appreciated and valued you are, and how lucky the world is to have YOU still in it.
…Not to tell you what that day should mean for you, of course! I just mean that you have much to be proud of and I hope it is a good day for you.
OK, found it.
https://www.gocomics.com/doonesbury/2022/04/24
Congratulations on your survival, Opus!
You ARE a superhero, Opus! And you use those super powers EVERY DAY. You are a good writer and an insightful commenter, and resilient as all get-out. You have much to be proud of in how you have used your superpowers.
For some reason the flashback-blue color palette makes this look extra adorable to me. I think it might be related to the fact that back in the day I spent a lot of time reading Count Your Sheep to cheer myself up during difficult patches of grad school.
oh WOW
I remember that comic, it was adorable.
Gosh, CYS is a blast from the past
*hastily googles*
Debuted almost 20 years ago? Well that can’t be ri… oh wait, time is weird.
Just got a new special read! Thank you for the recommendation!
Just admit you want to see Dorothy in a pantsuit, Joyce
That’s the vibe I’m getting.
President Dinkley?
I’d vote for that, as long as Scooby is the VP.
Dorothy’s costume can be “A person who’s fully with it”. Cuz she’s not one.
I don’t understand the alt-text.
“i think you mean president dinkley-fleach”
Dinkley = Velma
Fleach = ?
Her girlfriend Marcy
I had to look it up, but: https://scoobydoo.fandom.com/wiki/Marcie_Fleach
Personally, I’ve long shipped Velma with Daphne.
When you have the perfect avatar for your comment.
Thank you!
…Dorothy, are you sure you talked to a therapist? Sounds like career coach talk. I wouldn’t put it past Dorothy to never go to Feelings Therapy, except she *did*, when Amber mauled the shit out of that guy. So I don’t know what her issue is..
Sunds more like she knows it sounds upsetting in a cheery way, like joking around, and that shows she doesn’t have real coping mechanisms beyond “everything is fine!!!1!!1! haha!”
I didn’t read your comments, I’ve questioned the exactly thing. hahaha Sorry
I imagine that Dorothy’s therapist had their hands full with ‘you got kidnapped’ and hasn’t resolved the ‘building your life around a goal that’s entirely outside your control’. Once Dorothy can accept that she might not make President, even if she sacrifices everything else for that goal, I think she’d be pretty healthy otherwise.
Can she, though?
You can certainly try but it’s good to have a backup plan.
Learning opportunity my arse.
Anyway, it’s nice that you still fit in both. I probably wouldn’t have
.
With Joyce dressed as Rapunzel, it would be perfect if Dorothy’s costume was Cassandra.
Why? What is the connection?
I think they mean this Cassandra: https://disney.fandom.com/wiki/Cassandra_(Tangled)
Oh wow, I had no idea! I only watched the original film. Thank you!
Pleae watch the show. Is really amazing.
love the art style/haven’t gotten into it but timeline wise i wouldn’t expect teh spinoff cartoon to be a thing yet unless the existence of all the relevant media/name drops are just put in whenever the author feels like it and not necessarily accurate
There is something disturbingly manic about her approach “Haha I just survived a deeply traumatic event, let’s slap it onto my work resume.”
Question: am I the only one seeing something… odd about these flashback strips? Dorothy and Sarah’s lines feel… off. As if they aren’t really speaking like themselves, but rather like… Joyce’s mental picture of them? Am I just reading too much into things?
IIIIINTERESTING! Huh…
i’m not really that much of an analyzer but who knows maybe the flash back is done through someone’s point of view/perception of things
Are you really meeting a therapist, Dorothy? It sounds like a motivational coach.
As a trauma therapist I can safely say that is a terrible way to address someone’s trauma.
I feel like Dorothy has misconstrued this advice, which was probably meant to apply to benign issues typical of your average college student.
Do you mean trauma in general, or Dorothy’s particular kind?
In either case, what alternative ways of addressing it would you recommend?
I’d rather not see Dorothy in a pantsuit. Or anyone in a pantsuit, really. Pantsuits are ugly, ban pantsuits.
Pantsuits are RAD!
Should you really think of a near-death experience as a life experience?
Works for me, if it didn’t actually perma-dead kill you it’s by definition a “life” experience.
I just heard Joyce in Isabella’s voice. It was very strange. Where’s Phineas?
Ha ha LOL
say would you mind telling me what voice you usually read her in, if any at all?
inexplicably, today’s strip somehow has the comedic structure of A Sunday Strip(tm) like garfield, but the panel structure of a regular doa comic. fun
Was. Was that bit therapist advice possibly given before the kidnapping to a situation where it would have been vaguely reasonable? And Dorothy is just applying it in a horrifying way?
Either way the therapist in question clearly didn’t know the details of the situation.
What is the difference between a suit and a pantsuit?
I believe skirtsuit and pantsuit are different types of women’s suits. Men typically don’t wear skirts so there isn’t the same distinction.
Joyce is Protestant, so she probably never saw a man in a dress before college.
Male skirtsuits exist, but are generally referred to as Full Highland Dress.
A pantsuit has pants.
…NGL, President Dinkley solving mysteries with her pot-smoked kinda-boyfriend from college, his talking dog kept alive through sacrifices to a pagan god, and the couple they both knew back in the day, is a show I’d totally watch.
I thought that “turn something horrible into a positive through optimism” sounded suspiciously close to something JOYCE said, so I went back to check
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-4/04-the-whiteboard-dong-bandit/depressed/
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-4/04-the-whiteboard-dong-bandit/godpertunity/
what’s really interesting is that more likely than not both Joyce’s pastor and Dorothy’s therapist meant this phrase in a different way, but Joyce and Dorothy have come up with a very similar interpretation
Thanks for reminding me this strip exists!
Joyce is cute and fucked up, but she does have her funnier moments, especially with Walky.
Man, when Walky said that Indiana University’s therapists weren’t very good, HE WAS NOT JOKING.
Bad Dorothy. Always looking on the bright side is very destructive. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6452749-bright-sided
Thank you for sharing this. The difference between healthy optimism and toxic positivity is a lot more important and overlooked than most people realize. A necessary read!!!
Dorothy’s just out there unironically singing that Monty Python song.
Which one? Also, might I ask, are you a fan of Python?
Always look on the bright side of life
Always look on the bright side of life
Apparently I got a few pages behind but yiiiikes dorothy