Ethically, yeah totally. Legally however, it depends entirely on how the relevant jurisdiction worded their laws. This was one of the more disturbing things I learned when filling in my marriage license application by mistake¹.
Even ignoring the fact that grandparents/grandchldren have the same degree of consanguinity as siblings, and assuming 20 year generations, the “half ones age plus 7 rule” would make the grandparent at least 94. In general, if the average generation interval is G, then the minimum “legitimate” grandparent age would be 4G+7.
fuck it, i’m gonna call this shot from all the way downtown:
september 10th, either joyce realizes she’s in love with dorothy, dorothy realizes she’s in love with joyce, or a smooch to fake out the pharmacist happens. one of those three. we’re coming up on 25 years of webcomics and everyone knows that the traditional gift is lesbians
Considering the other girl characters in this comic that I’ve had the hots for in the past being a hot mess seems to be a requirement as far as I’m concerned.
First of all, Joyce, I’m pretty sure twice a month would be semi-monthly.
Second of all, are you TRYING to get Walky to materialize behind you in order to make a snide remark? Because that is generally how this shit works in comics.
It could be but bimonthly would also be correct. As it does have both the definitions of twice a month or every two months which makes it a confusing word to use.
Except that “twice a month” is not exactly the same as “every two weeks”.
If you get paid twice a month, on the 15th of the month and the 30th, you get 24 paychecks a year.
If you get paid every other Friday, you get 26 paychecks a year.
If you get paid every two weeks it is therefore a good idea to budget as though you get paid twice a month, because then twice a year you get a “free” paycheck that you can put towards your savings.
And if you work long enough, there is that once in a lifetime year where being paid every other Friday gets you 27 paychecks in one year. I think a leap year has to be involved, but don’t quote me on that one.
Yeah, kudos to Dorothy for knowing the correct meaning of “bimonthly”. (“Bi-” – two; “semi-” – half.)
Which is the wrong word, because the average period is 28 days, shorter than most months. Unless you’re using a lunar calendar, in which case it’s right. Unless your period is atypical or irregular…is it confusing enough yet?
Okay so I think we can all agree that the next comic (assuming Willis doesn’t cut to a different scene) is going to be a big one. It’s unavoidable at this point–is the ship happening, or isn’t it? The way I see it, there are three options:
The Obvious: It is. Joyce gets flustered and realizes things.
The Subversion (bad): It isn’t. Nothing happens and it’s all been just a little joke, which, yknow, fine.
The Subversion (good): It is, but Dorothy is the one who gets flustered. This would be fascinating because so far Joyce’s adoration for Dorothy has often felt rather one-sided, and having Dorothy be the one to realize she has feelings first would challenge their relationship dynamics and put Dorothy off-balance in a way she has rarely been.
IMO, the first option is still best, but the third would be pretty neat in its own way.
translation:
FAKE DATING PLOT FAKE DATING PLOT FAKE DATING PLOT FAKE DATING PLOT BEEEEEEEP THIS IS NOT A TEST OF THE EMERGENCY FAKE DATING PLOT DETECTION SYSTEM
i’m not opposed to the ship but given joyce’s intensity and enthusiasm of wanting to be good friends/closer to dorothy, i think dorothy would’ve realized by now whether she had similar feelings or so (has dorothy shown any bicurious/fluidity interests in anyone rather than just danny and walky)
The way Dorothy phrased that pushed me more towards taking it at face value, because it sounded like her assessment of her sexuality is based on never having having experienced any feelings/attractions that would move her past that zero, while also displaying a level of open-mindedness about the idea that that could change that make me think she’s probably not in denial or repressing anything. She’s educated on the topic, she’s comfortable with it, and also her experiences with attraction to date are strictly heterosexual.
Contrast that with Joyce, who is such a repressed mess about all things sexual she once tried to claim she was ace! (Without knowing the word, just the general concept as outlined to her by Ruth.) Now *that* is a sexual self-assessment I don’t think we can put much stock in, as it was in no way reflective of her actual desires, just her fears.
Agreed. That makes a lot of sense. I think Dorothy phrased it like that to say “I’m pretty sure I’m straight, but life isn’t perfectly knowable” rather than giving any shipping-related hints.
It’s kind of fun to speculate “what would x and y be like as a couple” though! Okay, to me. But I think the Joyce/Dorothy thing is more of a running joke in-comic.
Oh, we know what they’d be like as a couple! Joyce would be a fighter pilot with her own cartoon show who makes Kraft Mac & Cheese for their kids every night, and Dorothy would handle laundry duties since she’s good at folding, and Joyce would handle vacuuming because she likes to vacuum.
Okay so we know Joyce in Dumbing of Age is written kinda like an autobiography of Willis, so considering that, and knowing Willis is married to a woman, then logically that means Joyce will too. Thats what I choose to believe.
First of all, Joyce, the last thing you want to do right now is get your story straight. Secondly, are you SURE it’s just a “story”?
Third, and this is for Willis, I say “whom”. I say it to my dogs, in fact, when they start barking like little weirdos for no darn reason. “At whom are you even barking!?”
I don’t know why I do that, but I’ve been doing it all my life, or at least all of it I can remember, and am unlikely to change now.
While I definitely advise anybody at all who is not me to just say “who” all the time, I also feel like pointing out that in your example sentence “to” is a preposition and it is immediately followed by “who”.
Although it’s a relief to come back here wondering “what ridiculous stuff did I say when I was super tired that one time??” and only a silly self-contraction
i mean, no judgement/wouldn’t go outta my way to talk to anyone/avoid ppl either way but i’d rather another customer in a store i went to be a ‘hussy’ than some fundie christian or so
And it is none of anyone’s business but some ppl might be friendly enough to ask that kinda question outta habit or so. (Well, idk how many only out couples there are in my area but if i saw a mini freakout like this and then two ppl holding hands i’d think it was a big sis thing more than a couple thing lol)
I just think it’s adorable that at this stage in her de programming, Joyce is terrified of being though a hussy and unconcerned about being thought a lesbian.
i just thought it’d meant more of it being more accepted if she’s seemingly in a ‘committed’ relationship versus just picking up some birth control to have one night stands/flings lol
feels like becky would be crushed by that. unless it’s all “fine, we can have a three way” because at this point if dorothy was wlw leaning i can imagine there being a ‘hatef-ck’ as well lol
Becky being crushed by this, and that causing strife between her and Dina, is part of the reason I’m excited for the ship (whether it’s one-sided or not). Drama!
man. the more this pair gets teased the more i feel like a traitor to both my lesbian roots and my rabid shipper background because i just…don’t…ship it. at all. like, whenever the comic makes a blatant, direct joke like this one, it always seems to land differently with me than it does with other readers, because i always find it humorous in the absurdity. like, i cannot see it happening at ALL.
i mean, i COULD see joyce discovering that she’s bi, that feels like a decently plausible outcome at this point. but dorothy is just…sooo straight. nothing about any of her interactions have EVER suggested ANY same-gender leanings to me. and again, rabid shipper; i am a professional at reading way too much into these things. but there’s just…NOTHING to work with from her.
not saying this to disagree with anyone here, btw, just having an amusing existential crisis. if i can’t find an excuse to fantasize about two female characters kissing, then…who am i……what have i become……….. [stares at hands in shock and horror while dramatic music plays in the background]
If it makes you feel better, I feel the same way. I do believe that Joyce is bi, and has a crush on Dorothy. But I think Dorothy is straight and that ship will never actually happen.
Agreed.
It’s always kind of weirded me out that every time this comes up the commentariat’s focus is all on whether Joyce is bi, with the apparent assumption that if she is, Dorothy will just go along whatever her own feelings.
Though I’ve got to say it would be kind of fun in a Damn You Willis way to have Joyce go through an arc where she figures out she’s bi, has a whole thing with Becky having to deal with it not being for her and Dorothy is still just “Nah, flattered, but I’m straight”.
Yeah, same. I think it’s entirely possible Joyce is somewhere other than a 0 on the Kinsey Scale and that there are some romantic feelings for Dorothy mixed in there along with the platonic ones, and that this is something Joyce will someday realize and have to examine…but Dorothy is like the straightest person in this cast. They are never going to be a couple.
(And that’s okay! Crushes that go nowhere can be fun!)
Dorothy would have to be very veeery blind to not notice how Joyce looks at her sometimes (and she had Walky joking about it constantly); and now she is offering holding her hand?
Yeah, I’m bi and I don’t see any evidence of Dorothy being anything other than straight. Joyce I’m not quite sure about, but Willis said Joyce wasn’t gay in the arc where Becky kisses her…but I guess “not gay” could have more than one reading (she clearly isn’t exclusively lesbian, but you could distinguish gay and bi/pan/etc.)
That is basically how I read it too. It would be neat if Dorothy also was not straight… but there is no evidence of that. Yet there is plenty of evidence of a one sided crush on Joyce’s side.
On the bright side, Joyce, if you do hold hands with Dorothy, people there will probably assume that you AREN’T getting birth control to prevent a pregnancy.
Joyce cares *so* much about their fictitious romantic backstory. It’s really quite transparent of her, but Dorothy seems like, increasingly annoyed, and that worries me?
If she is annoyed at the crush and not Joyce’s endless hangups, I understand it’s hard to be put up on a pedestal and then hit with a million hints that that person is into you, especially when you’re fond of them platonically. But also… I just want Joyce’s and Dorothy’s happiness to align.
I’m pretty sure she’s just annoyed that they’re having this ridiculous argument in a public place. I don’t think the hints are registering at all, since she’s already learned to file them away in “Joyce learned what close female friendship looked like from a girl who was a lesbian who secretly fancied her”.
I honestly can’t wait for Joyce to figure that out for herself, too! I would imagine she’d have an epic freakout, and perhaps also get angry at Becky for “tainting her” or something.
Joyce has already commented that her childhood best friend having been a closeted lesbian who was in love with her probably warped her idea of what platonic female friendships look like. She wasn’t angry, just “huh”, like “oh, here’s another puzzle piece in why I seem to confuse people a lot with behaviors that I think are normal.”
Dorothy is so patient and cool. I hope extremely agitated Joyce will not make something crazy that could ruin their friendship. But that would be really interesting to see.
Y’know the first time reading this I didn’t really notice the stresses on the words in Panel 4, I was giggling too much? But I came back to check on more comments and it just leapt out at me:
What is it about me that you love?
If there had been some hypothetical dating context already thrown out in this discussion it might be different, but there hasn’t been, so that means this is just a straight (HA!) up confession from Joyce and I hope Dorothy realises that soon xD
(It being a confession in that there is a strong, strong, strong implication, just shy of text and arguable not shy of it, that Joyce already knows what she loves about Dorothy.)
(I mean I guess she’s been over her girlcrush on Sal for a while but she clearly had her ideas about that too and I think she understood them even if she didn’t entirely know why) (disaster bi ahoy)
How did we meet? Why do you love me? What are we getting for dinner tonight? Tell me how you make passionate love with me later! I need details. . . . I am actually straight though this is definitely just for the character
That sentiment of “Who’d want to date me? I’m a frigging mess!” is something I keep seeing from lesbians on social media again and again, and I have no idea why.
Maybe when you know what you like in a woman, you’ll notice everything about you that doesn’t fit that template?
Okay, the bickering actually made me laugh – will played. 🙂
More seriously, while there may be other issues, Dorothy gets serious kudos for referring to the pill as ‘menstrual medication’ for Joyce. Useful framing for her and reminder.
I think the logic goes that if she pretends to be a lesbian, she’s clearly not being sexually actively with a MAN, which means she is clearly planning to take these meds for non-birth control-related reasons, and therefore will not be seen as a hussy!
I don’t think she’s really thinking so much about the possibility that people could still go ahead and assume she’s sexually active with a girlfriend, and Dorothy and Becky haven’t bothered to point that out because it would not help the cause. (It IS possible she has some degree of ‘if a penis isn’t going into a hole it’s not Real Sex’ going on; that’s pretty common. Still, when I imagine what her current reaction would be to the prospect of manual sex or dry-humping, I’m inclined to think it’s all pre-marital hanky-panky to her; she’s not even comfortable with the idea of masturbation.)
Imagining a sad follow up to this goofy situation where they go through with pretending to be a couple, but in between now and next pickup they have a huge fight, and the lady at the counter recognizes Joyce when she comes back next month and asks where Dorothy is and Joyce kinda weakly, to maintain the cover, says they broke up. And we all get a direct gut punch.
Saying “everybody” opens the door to someone going “Nah, not me.” 🙂 And yeah, I don’t see a need to grammar-shame either way!
Linguistics nerdery: The “who/whom” thing is based on whether the word is a subject or object, but because of it being a question pronoun and relative pronoun, it can show up in different places in the syntax than regular personal pronouns do (e.g. “the person who(m) I called” vs. “I called them”). That’s why the word’s subject/object status isn’t as obvious.
Anyway, grammar changes over time and varies by place, so “whom” might not be in some people’s vocabulary at all, and that’s fine. It isn’t as if there’s One Single Correct English.
Can’t get prescriptive grammar at a pharmacy anyway (sorry, the “get it ‘straight'” joke was already made). 😛
“Whom” is definitely in my writing vocabulary, but I could not tell you whether I’ve ever used it naturally in speech or not (I feel like I *probably* have, but it’s not like I’ve ever taped myself speaking and done a linguistic analysis on the transcript) , and I wouldn’t use it in dialogue unless it felt right for the character voice.
@brionl:Yeah i know some people talk like that, and I dont mind.
It is wrong to say “it is whom not who”. Both usages exist, is my point (also one is on the way out and linguistic conservatives won’t stop clutching their pearls over it, and that I do find fairly annoying)
@Ryek sorry I think I misread your comment after getting somewhat worked up by Kazuma’s, i now see you were making the same point as me only calmly instead of hysterically. My bad
Guess I get as irrationally infuriated over prescriptivism as the worst prescriptivists themselves do over imaginary errors >_<
I love how Joyce’s reaction to telling the pharmacist about her murderous ovaries is outright refusal, but to pretending she’s in a relationship with Dorothy is “Okay but we have to do it right.”
She’s come a long way, but she sure is having A Time of it right now.
I can’t bear to scroll back through the comic, but has anyone at any point said, “who cares what the pharmacist thinks as long as the prescription is filled?”
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IT SAYS NO SLUT SHAMING RIGHT THERE
also NO couples are implausible
Seriously, how do you keep getting pictures from the future?
Are reading the future right now, you evil wizard?
I mean. It’s right there in her name.
Watsonian answer: Time is Ana’s plaything.
Doylist answer: twitter.com/damnyouwillis
I need to pull up that xkcd comic showing allowable ages and see when it says it’s okay for a grandparent and their infant grandchild to date.
I’m not sure that age is the primary obstacle. I think grandparent and grandchild pretty much eliminates the okay.
Ethically, yeah totally. Legally however, it depends entirely on how the relevant jurisdiction worded their laws. This was one of the more disturbing things I learned when filling in my marriage license application by mistake¹.
[1] Yes.
Even ignoring the fact that grandparents/grandchldren have the same degree of consanguinity as siblings, and assuming 20 year generations, the “half ones age plus 7 rule” would make the grandparent at least 94. In general, if the average generation interval is G, then the minimum “legitimate” grandparent age would be 4G+7.
Sorry, 4G + 14.
Consanguinity is a new word for me. Surprising considering how much I’ve read about Charles II of Spain.
If you look at the past strip you can see it says “not even you”, which I choose to interpret as “don’t slut shame yourself either”.
But none of the signs mention “hussy shaming”. Are “hussy” and “slut” perfect synonyms?
hus·sy
/ˈhəzē,ˈhəsē/
nounderogatory•informal
noun: hussy; plural noun: hussies
a girl or woman who behaves in a disrespectful or inappropriate way or who has many casual sexual relationships.
slut
/slət/
noun
noun: slut; plural noun: sluts
1.
offensive
a woman who has many casual sexual partners.
so a hussy is SOMETIMES a slut?
Yes, but below that it says, “NOT EVEN YOU”. So, really, there kinda is.
Cut to:
Justice of the Peace: …pronounce you married. You may kiss.
Dorothy: There, Joyce, now I hope you believe that…
Joyce: …
Dorothy & Joyce: WHAT THE FUCK DID WE JUST DO?!
Now kiss!
**clangs fork against a glass**
Seconded.
They got her prescription drugs, that is what.
Shouldn’t they go on a honeymoon first, simply to allay the slightest shadow of suspicion?
Maybe if they adopt a kid together it would be more believable?
This whole strip is just fucking perfect. 😂👏
I’m at a loss for words, really.
Excellent work, Willis!
I mean Joyce isn’t wrong exactly…
The straights are not okay.
i mean, who wouldn’t be a mess at this point? I suppose Mary but no one really wants (or should) to be her lol
Exactly???
Lmao Joyce. 😂
Excuse me while I cackle. Actual physical laughter. This is a delight.
Beautiful. A work of art.
I think we’d all be lucky if they dated, not sure about them as much but hope springs eternal
Jesus help this woman. No really like come down here and help.
You can be gay and still be a hussy though.
Hell, you can be ace and still be a hussy. I do it every day!
and here. we. go.
Well, certainly. The question is where.
Same, Joyce. Haaard same.
Okay, I know this is the most obvious joke ever, but still…
…plays I Want To Hold Your Hand on the hacked Muzak
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ir_YIVcb7I comes to mind.
Joyce’s neurosis is so absolutely ridiculous. I love it but at the same time, I feel Dorothy’s frustration.
Her repressed upbringing certainly didn’t help
fuck it, i’m gonna call this shot from all the way downtown:
september 10th, either joyce realizes she’s in love with dorothy, dorothy realizes she’s in love with joyce, or a smooch to fake out the pharmacist happens. one of those three. we’re coming up on 25 years of webcomics and everyone knows that the traditional gift is lesbians
I’m pretty sure Willis posted a preview panel of the September 10 strip on Twitter at some point, though I can’t recall exactly who/what was in it.
The preview panel was for September 11. https://twitter.com/damnyouwillis/status/1511900386617139200
sal is nonplussed
More likely by Danny than Joyce and Dorothy.
That’s the live Sal reaction to them kissing.
Sal just came to get her bc and walked in on two hussies making out to prove they’re not hussies.
and then Becky walks in
Becky was there when Dorothy raised up the holding hands deal
she seems cool with it
I’m just picturing Joyce aggressively kissing Dorothy while the pharmacist looks on, mildly confused but ultimately not giving too much of a shit.
“SEE? I TOLD YOU THE PILLS WEREN’T FOR BABY-MAKING REASONS!!!”
“…Miss, I just asked if you wanted your prescription on auto-refill or not.”
“Miss, this is a
Wendy’spharmacy…”Joyce realizes she might be bisexual.
The drama as Becky realizes she has a shot and possibly torpedo’s her relationship with Dina.
Dorothy being in no way actually attracted to Joyce,
And Joyce’s inability to process her attraction in a healthy way,
Paves the way for the unholy truth that Mike never actually died, and is working for SEMME again, undercover as Booster.
Walky is the only one who knows, that’s why he said what he said on halloween.
Pepe Silvia.
That’s terrible, though.
They’re finally free of Mike and you bring him back?
Did somebody just call in a request for Dolly Parton? I’m still looking for the Cat Stevens.
This brought a chuckle out of a cruddy mood. Thank you, Mr. W.
Considering the other girl characters in this comic that I’ve had the hots for in the past being a hot mess seems to be a requirement as far as I’m concerned.
Who among us is not a hot mess?
Well, maybe Sierra. But that’s one person.
ICYMI: Feast your eyes on what all the posters say in HD!
Just send Joyce a steamy slashfic, Dorothy, that SURELY worked for someone…
And Joyce, you’d need a blabbermouth that would want to talk to you more than what is needed.
First of all, Joyce, I’m pretty sure twice a month would be semi-monthly.
Second of all, are you TRYING to get Walky to materialize behind you in order to make a snide remark? Because that is generally how this shit works in comics.
It could be but bimonthly would also be correct. As it does have both the definitions of twice a month or every two months which makes it a confusing word to use.
Biweekly is the one that annoys me because we already have another word for ‘every two weeks’, it’s fortnightly. Or uh, bimonthly.
Except that “twice a month” is not exactly the same as “every two weeks”.
If you get paid twice a month, on the 15th of the month and the 30th, you get 24 paychecks a year.
If you get paid every other Friday, you get 26 paychecks a year.
If you get paid every two weeks it is therefore a good idea to budget as though you get paid twice a month, because then twice a year you get a “free” paycheck that you can put towards your savings.
And if you work long enough, there is that once in a lifetime year where being paid every other Friday gets you 27 paychecks in one year. I think a leap year has to be involved, but don’t quote me on that one.
Basically biweekly/bimonthly have been completely destroyed in terms of clarity and whoever’s responsible probably belongs in prison.
Or we could do something a little less extreme and simply say “Every other week/month” and “Twice a week/month” and nobody goes to prison at all.
i suppose we could do that too
Yeah, kudos to Dorothy for knowing the correct meaning of “bimonthly”. (“Bi-” – two; “semi-” – half.)
Which is the wrong word, because the average period is 28 days, shorter than most months. Unless you’re using a lunar calendar, in which case it’s right. Unless your period is atypical or irregular…is it confusing enough yet?
A snark magnet, if you will
semi-monthly vs demi-monthly?
A hemidemisemimonth?
summoning Walky to watch them walk out the pharmacy thing hand in hand
alt-text: tbf, “whom” is a word that deserves retirement anyway.
It can be both!
“Look, do you want to do the holding hands thing?”
“I—I dunno.”
Don’t give us that malarkey, Joyce, you totally know!
Look, that bimonthly distinction is tricky sometimes.
FR though, Joyce needs a hug.
lol all she’d have to say is “my body is trying to murder me ” and most ppl would understand lol
Hehe.
Bi, monthly.
Bimonthly?? I’m bi daily.
In this economy??
YOU POOR STUPID BABIES
“Do we need to get our story straight?”
No, Joyce needs to get their story gay. Good grief.
Someone call Becky. She was born with this skill.
But she’d spontaneously combust if she sees Joyce with another lady who’s not her.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-5/01-when-somebody-loved-me/hindsight/
One would hope she has moved on.
Panel 4 Joyce having very normal, heterosexual thoughts
Okay so I think we can all agree that the next comic (assuming Willis doesn’t cut to a different scene) is going to be a big one. It’s unavoidable at this point–is the ship happening, or isn’t it? The way I see it, there are three options:
The Obvious: It is. Joyce gets flustered and realizes things.
The Subversion (bad): It isn’t. Nothing happens and it’s all been just a little joke, which, yknow, fine.
The Subversion (good): It is, but Dorothy is the one who gets flustered. This would be fascinating because so far Joyce’s adoration for Dorothy has often felt rather one-sided, and having Dorothy be the one to realize she has feelings first would challenge their relationship dynamics and put Dorothy off-balance in a way she has rarely been.
IMO, the first option is still best, but the third would be pretty neat in its own way.
translation:
FAKE DATING PLOT FAKE DATING PLOT FAKE DATING PLOT FAKE DATING PLOT BEEEEEEEP THIS IS NOT A TEST OF THE EMERGENCY FAKE DATING PLOT DETECTION SYSTEM
Red alert! Shields up! All hands to posting stations!
i’m not opposed to the ship but given joyce’s intensity and enthusiasm of wanting to be good friends/closer to dorothy, i think dorothy would’ve realized by now whether she had similar feelings or so (has dorothy shown any bicurious/fluidity interests in anyone rather than just danny and walky)
Dorothy is, um, most defintely autistic, just with a very different presentation than Joyce.
I feel like that should answer at least half of your points.
No. Dorothy has stated before that she is very straight. Joyce could be an exception but I doubt either of them will get there.
Dorothy wasn’t super certain about the exact specificity. When asked about her place in the Kinsey scale, she said:
“…I dunno. Probably a zero, best I can tell? I guess that estimate could change.”
It’s not the most confident response, and one open to the idea of change.
Of course, she may remain a 0. Or maybe Joyce will end up being her One (or more).
We’ll just have to go on this journey with her.
The way Dorothy phrased that pushed me more towards taking it at face value, because it sounded like her assessment of her sexuality is based on never having having experienced any feelings/attractions that would move her past that zero, while also displaying a level of open-mindedness about the idea that that could change that make me think she’s probably not in denial or repressing anything. She’s educated on the topic, she’s comfortable with it, and also her experiences with attraction to date are strictly heterosexual.
Contrast that with Joyce, who is such a repressed mess about all things sexual she once tried to claim she was ace! (Without knowing the word, just the general concept as outlined to her by Ruth.) Now *that* is a sexual self-assessment I don’t think we can put much stock in, as it was in no way reflective of her actual desires, just her fears.
Agreed. That makes a lot of sense. I think Dorothy phrased it like that to say “I’m pretty sure I’m straight, but life isn’t perfectly knowable” rather than giving any shipping-related hints.
It’s kind of fun to speculate “what would x and y be like as a couple” though! Okay, to me. But I think the Joyce/Dorothy thing is more of a running joke in-comic.
Oh, we know what they’d be like as a couple! Joyce would be a fighter pilot with her own cartoon show who makes Kraft Mac & Cheese for their kids every night, and Dorothy would handle laundry duties since she’s good at folding, and Joyce would handle vacuuming because she likes to vacuum.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/02-that-perfect-girl/kd/
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/02-that-perfect-girl/vacuum/
Oh yeah, very straight conversation between two very straight people
Okay so we know Joyce in Dumbing of Age is written kinda like an autobiography of Willis, so considering that, and knowing Willis is married to a woman, then logically that means Joyce will too. Thats what I choose to believe.
I will hold your hand. this is a threat
no, no, i think we should explore this concept further.
First of all, Joyce, the last thing you want to do right now is get your story straight. Secondly, are you SURE it’s just a “story”?
Third, and this is for Willis, I say “whom”. I say it to my dogs, in fact, when they start barking like little weirdos for no darn reason. “At whom are you even barking!?”
I don’t know why I do that, but I’ve been doing it all my life, or at least all of it I can remember, and am unlikely to change now.
I’ll use “whom” if it’s right after a preposition, but if I’m saying something like “who said what to who?” I usually don’t think of it.
While I definitely advise anybody at all who is not me to just say “who” all the time, I also feel like pointing out that in your example sentence “to” is a preposition and it is immediately followed by “who”.
Ha, true 🙂
Although it’s a relief to come back here wondering “what ridiculous stuff did I say when I was super tired that one time??” and only a silly self-contraction
*only see a silly self-contradiction (wow, I can’t write sometimes)
i mean, no judgement/wouldn’t go outta my way to talk to anyone/avoid ppl either way but i’d rather another customer in a store i went to be a ‘hussy’ than some fundie christian or so
And it is none of anyone’s business but some ppl might be friendly enough to ask that kinda question outta habit or so. (Well, idk how many only out couples there are in my area but if i saw a mini freakout like this and then two ppl holding hands i’d think it was a big sis thing more than a couple thing lol)
I just think it’s adorable that at this stage in her de programming, Joyce is terrified of being though a hussy and unconcerned about being thought a lesbian.
It’s amazing <3
i just thought it’d meant more of it being more accepted if she’s seemingly in a ‘committed’ relationship versus just picking up some birth control to have one night stands/flings lol
Are we sure Joyce is straight?
… she asked hopefully, because this ship dynamic just works.
feels like becky would be crushed by that. unless it’s all “fine, we can have a three way” because at this point if dorothy was wlw leaning i can imagine there being a ‘hatef-ck’ as well lol
I mean, Joyce thinks of Becky as her sister… It would be upsetting but I’m sure Becky could get over it (esp with Dina’s help)
I don’t think Joyce is straight, I think she’s just not into Becky. Sorry Becky.
Becky being crushed by this, and that causing strife between her and Dina, is part of the reason I’m excited for the ship (whether it’s one-sided or not). Drama!
This person is reading Dumbing of Age correctly.
Probably a minority opinion here, but I do think Joyce is straight.
Just as importantly for this ship though, there’s never even been a hint that Dorothy isn’t straight.
Dorothy’s own best estimation of herself is a Kinsey zero.
We’re all freaking messes, some people just don’t know they’re messes yet
Joyce is not wrong.
<a href="https://twitter.com/damnyouwillis/status/1510262230142570519" Checkpoint has been reached, yay
https://twitter.com/damnyouwillis/status/1510262230142570519 typo yay
Yay!
man. the more this pair gets teased the more i feel like a traitor to both my lesbian roots and my rabid shipper background because i just…don’t…ship it. at all. like, whenever the comic makes a blatant, direct joke like this one, it always seems to land differently with me than it does with other readers, because i always find it humorous in the absurdity. like, i cannot see it happening at ALL.
i mean, i COULD see joyce discovering that she’s bi, that feels like a decently plausible outcome at this point. but dorothy is just…sooo straight. nothing about any of her interactions have EVER suggested ANY same-gender leanings to me. and again, rabid shipper; i am a professional at reading way too much into these things. but there’s just…NOTHING to work with from her.
not saying this to disagree with anyone here, btw, just having an amusing existential crisis. if i can’t find an excuse to fantasize about two female characters kissing, then…who am i……what have i become……….. [stares at hands in shock and horror while dramatic music plays in the background]
If it makes you feel better, I feel the same way. I do believe that Joyce is bi, and has a crush on Dorothy. But I think Dorothy is straight and that ship will never actually happen.
Agreed.
It’s always kind of weirded me out that every time this comes up the commentariat’s focus is all on whether Joyce is bi, with the apparent assumption that if she is, Dorothy will just go along whatever her own feelings.
Though I’ve got to say it would be kind of fun in a Damn You Willis way to have Joyce go through an arc where she figures out she’s bi, has a whole thing with Becky having to deal with it not being for her and Dorothy is still just “Nah, flattered, but I’m straight”.
Yeah, same. I think it’s entirely possible Joyce is somewhere other than a 0 on the Kinsey Scale and that there are some romantic feelings for Dorothy mixed in there along with the platonic ones, and that this is something Joyce will someday realize and have to examine…but Dorothy is like the straightest person in this cast. They are never going to be a couple.
(And that’s okay! Crushes that go nowhere can be fun!)
dunno
Dorothy would have to be very veeery blind to not notice how Joyce looks at her sometimes (and she had Walky joking about it constantly); and now she is offering holding her hand?
never say never
Yeah, I’m bi and I don’t see any evidence of Dorothy being anything other than straight. Joyce I’m not quite sure about, but Willis said Joyce wasn’t gay in the arc where Becky kisses her…but I guess “not gay” could have more than one reading (she clearly isn’t exclusively lesbian, but you could distinguish gay and bi/pan/etc.)
Honestly I’m more about one-sided feelings from Joyce with Dorothy not reciprocating. I don’t know what that makes me.
*adam scott meme image* it’s about the *yearning*
That is basically how I read it too. It would be neat if Dorothy also was not straight… but there is no evidence of that. Yet there is plenty of evidence of a one sided crush on Joyce’s side.
On the bright side, Joyce, if you do hold hands with Dorothy, people there will probably assume that you AREN’T getting birth control to prevent a pregnancy.
That’s literally the point of the hand-holding.
Joyce cares *so* much about their fictitious romantic backstory. It’s really quite transparent of her, but Dorothy seems like, increasingly annoyed, and that worries me?
If she is annoyed at the crush and not Joyce’s endless hangups, I understand it’s hard to be put up on a pedestal and then hit with a million hints that that person is into you, especially when you’re fond of them platonically. But also… I just want Joyce’s and Dorothy’s happiness to align.
Sigh
I’m pretty sure she’s just annoyed that they’re having this ridiculous argument in a public place. I don’t think the hints are registering at all, since she’s already learned to file them away in “Joyce learned what close female friendship looked like from a girl who was a lesbian who secretly fancied her”.
I honestly can’t wait for Joyce to figure that out for herself, too! I would imagine she’d have an epic freakout, and perhaps also get angry at Becky for “tainting her” or something.
Joyce has already commented that her childhood best friend having been a closeted lesbian who was in love with her probably warped her idea of what platonic female friendships look like. She wasn’t angry, just “huh”, like “oh, here’s another puzzle piece in why I seem to confuse people a lot with behaviors that I think are normal.”
She came here to perform a simple task of grabbing the prescription while Joyce is doing a whole drama play out of this. Who wouldn’t be annoyed?
She knew what she was getting into
Oh yes but she just couldn’t resist the Urge to Mom
Literally everyone already thinks they’re banging.
Also, I thought it was every third month? Becky counting…
jbp voice: we’ll see who asked whom out
You have made me envision Kermit.
(I say in a Cape Cod accent.)
Dorothy is so patient and cool. I hope extremely agitated Joyce will not make something crazy that could ruin their friendship. But that would be really interesting to see.
KISS HER YOU FOOL
Are you saying that to Dorothy or to Joyce?
yes
God-a-mighty, if I had known someone like Joyce back when i was a young college student… hell, yes, I’ve have dated her.
Compared to where your Walkyverse self was, you’re the picture of mental health.
Joyce you are a disaster
Y’know the first time reading this I didn’t really notice the stresses on the words in Panel 4, I was giggling too much? But I came back to check on more comments and it just leapt out at me:
What is it about me that you love?
If there had been some hypothetical dating context already thrown out in this discussion it might be different, but there hasn’t been, so that means this is just a straight (HA!) up confession from Joyce and I hope Dorothy realises that soon xD
(It being a confession in that there is a strong, strong, strong implication, just shy of text and arguable not shy of it, that Joyce already knows what she loves about Dorothy.)
(I mean I guess she’s been over her girlcrush on Sal for a while but she clearly had her ideas about that too and I think she understood them even if she didn’t entirely know why) (disaster bi ahoy)
I mean, you can easily (choose to) read it as simple lack of confidence?
Yes, but is that as fun? (I don’t know, maybe it is.)
Joyce getting in the weeds of worldbuilding again
If you’re not wildly overthinking mundane details most of your audience won’t even notice are you really a writer?
For “whom”, the bell tolls (good riddance, too)
How did we meet? Why do you love me? What are we getting for dinner tonight? Tell me how you make passionate love with me later! I need details. . . . I am actually straight though this is definitely just for the character
That sentiment of “Who’d want to date me? I’m a frigging mess!” is something I keep seeing from lesbians on social media again and again, and I have no idea why.
Maybe when you know what you like in a woman, you’ll notice everything about you that doesn’t fit that template?
The appropriate response from Dorothy is to cup Joyce’s cheek and say “But you’re -my- mess.”
How quickly Joyce got into this backstory only makes me wonder about what she’s written for Julia and Doris
shameless fanservice. cute tho
Okay, the bickering actually made me laugh – will played. 🙂
More seriously, while there may be other issues, Dorothy gets serious kudos for referring to the pill as ‘menstrual medication’ for Joyce. Useful framing for her and reminder.
I don’t get it at all. Is this about penetrative sex being evil?
I think the logic goes that if she pretends to be a lesbian, she’s clearly not being sexually actively with a MAN, which means she is clearly planning to take these meds for non-birth control-related reasons, and therefore will not be seen as a hussy!
I don’t think she’s really thinking so much about the possibility that people could still go ahead and assume she’s sexually active with a girlfriend, and Dorothy and Becky haven’t bothered to point that out because it would not help the cause. (It IS possible she has some degree of ‘if a penis isn’t going into a hole it’s not Real Sex’ going on; that’s pretty common. Still, when I imagine what her current reaction would be to the prospect of manual sex or dry-humping, I’m inclined to think it’s all pre-marital hanky-panky to her; she’s not even comfortable with the idea of masturbation.)
I still don’t get it, but at this point I’m so confused I don’t even know what question to ask so I’ll let it at that. Thanks!
1. Joyce speaks truth. Yes, she is a mess.
2. Who asked whom. I speak that way. So there.
good for you!
#2 is already in the alt-text
Now kiss
Imagining a sad follow up to this goofy situation where they go through with pretending to be a couple, but in between now and next pickup they have a huge fight, and the lady at the counter recognizes Joyce when she comes back next month and asks where Dorothy is and Joyce kinda weakly, to maintain the cover, says they broke up. And we all get a direct gut punch.
A little handholding could trigger a realization for Joyce. Followed by an impulsive kiss and some backpedaling by Dorothy.
just to be petty:
it’s “who asked whom out”, not “who asked who out”
see hovertext =P
also you’re wrong.
…unless you believe classroom english is somehow more valid than actual usage? you’d be in terrible company, if that’s your stance.
you’re in terrible company*
Some people do talk like that. Everybody else hates them.
Saying “everybody” opens the door to someone going “Nah, not me.” 🙂 And yeah, I don’t see a need to grammar-shame either way!
Linguistics nerdery: The “who/whom” thing is based on whether the word is a subject or object, but because of it being a question pronoun and relative pronoun, it can show up in different places in the syntax than regular personal pronouns do (e.g. “the person who(m) I called” vs. “I called them”). That’s why the word’s subject/object status isn’t as obvious.
Anyway, grammar changes over time and varies by place, so “whom” might not be in some people’s vocabulary at all, and that’s fine. It isn’t as if there’s One Single Correct English.
Can’t get prescriptive grammar at a pharmacy anyway (sorry, the “get it ‘straight'” joke was already made). 😛
“Whom” is definitely in my writing vocabulary, but I could not tell you whether I’ve ever used it naturally in speech or not (I feel like I *probably* have, but it’s not like I’ve ever taped myself speaking and done a linguistic analysis on the transcript) , and I wouldn’t use it in dialogue unless it felt right for the character voice.
@brionl:Yeah i know some people talk like that, and I dont mind.
It is wrong to say “it is whom not who”. Both usages exist, is my point (also one is on the way out and linguistic conservatives won’t stop clutching their pearls over it, and that I do find fairly annoying)
“It is I,” is also correct usage, but will remain an obscurity.
what does this mean
what is “correct” usage
like
correct by what rules? made by who? Microsoft Office???
anyway “it is i” is not an obscurity it’s used all the time by people for humorous old-timey-sounding purposes, so
@Ryek sorry I think I misread your comment after getting somewhat worked up by Kazuma’s, i now see you were making the same point as me only calmly instead of hysterically. My bad
Guess I get as irrationally infuriated over prescriptivism as the worst prescriptivists themselves do over imaginary errors >_<
lol i feel like even if joyce did know the ‘right’ one she is def too flustered/upset to be grammatically correct lol
wait so this is an ovulation thing happening in one ovary
hence every other month
ok
I love how Joyce’s reaction to telling the pharmacist about her murderous ovaries is outright refusal, but to pretending she’s in a relationship with Dorothy is “Okay but we have to do it right.”
She’s come a long way, but she sure is having A Time of it right now.
for the love of Willis, just make out already
No, no, Whom asked Who out. Who merely accepted. 😉
I’m going to side with Joyce in the last panel.
I can’t bear to scroll back through the comic, but has anyone at any point said, “who cares what the pharmacist thinks as long as the prescription is filled?”
They’re teenagers, so no.
Joyce cares.
I am hot. It’s too hot. Climate change is no joke bruh :/
I am confused, why would a lesbian couple need to worry about birth control?