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You know, I thought she was just rolling her eyes at first, but now that you’re pointed it out I definitely can’t unsee that lip bite in the last panel. You’re right, Joyce is most certainly not the only one getting turned on here.
I think Joyce wanting sex and allowing herself any degree of exploration of that are separated by a currently insurmountable chasm. But if, of the three non-banging couples in strip currently, Joyce and Joe end up being the first pair to seal the deal, I definitely won’t be mad.
So they’re going to get plenty of use out of a punching bag today?
(Disclaimer: everything I know about JoJo I learned from Soundsmith’s TF2 videos, which basically amounts to “they run around yelling and punching things really fast”.)
I feel like Sarah is fighting with herself not to think this is cute or like this interaction. She doesn’t want to be okay with any of this, but well… Look at them.
i mean even a non sarah person might roll their eyes at this but at least given how easily flustered joyce gets over some bare arms, she doesn’t have to worry about walking in on joyce and joe in a room alone
I mean, have we seen Joyce express sexual or romantic attraction to Sarah at all? She seems to see her more as a big sister than anyone romantically or sexually attractive.
She definitely tells Sarah that she’s a very pretty lady at least once (pretty certain wording was “very pretty” but a synonym for female person that wasn’t “lady” may have been used). She is aware Sarah is attractive but I don’t think she has ever got flustered by her attractiveness in the way she sometimes does by Sal/Dorothy/Jennifer’s hypnoboobs…
Probably spent too much time on this but here ya go, you decide who’s hotter.
Its kinda spicy but more or less sfw, features abs: https://i.imgur.com/WcMTGzx.png
Even though this ship is not my favorite, let’s say: THIS is chemistry!!! Go back one page then return. Compare. View a couple in which both people are interested in each other
I was unaware that “fireman pinup calendars” are a thing, and I’m not sure I want to risk the impact that attempting to verify this will have on my Google search results.
I believe there are also “firemen holding puppies” pin-up calendars. I assume these are the softcore level Joyce is thinking of (shirtless/maybe an open jacket revealing a muscled, bare chest, no chance of seeing weenus, also puppies!).
Joe would be a poor fireman. He’s presence would simply be counter productive – he is just too hot. I mean look – Joyce is already burning up just being near him. By panel five she is melting!!
Yeah, I was definitely taking it as a riff on that. Pointing out how bad that logic is in its real-world usage by showing it in its (surprisingly cute) Bizarro World version. It’s good social commentary, because it works both on its own as humor and making the point, and good writing because either this as a serious reaction from Joyce or this as fake moral outrage to cover up her extremely obvious actual reaction (in a way which Joyce knows her friends would perceive as in-character for her) are believably in-character for her.
(Just as either reading of Becky’s possibly-pointed comment in yesterday’s strip about how people assume men are always consenting by default can be read either way based on her character, actually. This kinda makes me think both comments were made intentionally with the latter plausible deniability but total self-awareness – leaning into the mirrored sexist stereotypes consciously for an intended effect, either to jostle Walky out of complacency or to do this kind of complicated flirty thing with Joe where Joyce is affecting a flanderized version of herself that I suspect is also giving Joe exactly the kind of endearing Joyce ridiculousness he craves. I feel like that self-awareness is pretty cool character development, really.)
I think she buries a lot of her own sexual desires in that kind of logic, without realizing the problematic aspect of it. She has a lot of purity culture to unlearn. The part that’s not verbalized is that they’re dating and Joe is clearly okay with being touched. She never said anything like that about Jacob.
Yeah, I’m still surprised how much I like the pairing. But it’s been foreshadowed and teased for years through their interactions and character development, so it feels very natural.
It’s definitely earned, and as much as I wanted it, looking back at a lot of past moments knowing what we know now, it was even more laid out than it felt.
I like to think of them as Joe+Joyce= “Joy”, and that about sums it up these days, too.
Erm Joyce, hate to tell you this, but you know that’s not how consent works, right? Like yeah Joe does seem to be cool with this so whatever, but just cause he’s your boyfriend does not mean you can touch him whenever you want…
if he doesn’t let you hold hands, touch arms or shoulders, he’s either not really your boyfriend, or he has issues that should’ve been negotiated beforehand (and that we know Joe doesn’t have)
Seconded. They’ve been smooching. Within the context of a relationship a certain amount of consent becomes communicated by body language. This is generally understood as we are animals. The burden of seeking or clarifying consent absolutely goes up as the relationship is newer or less well defined, and obviously is always worth keeping in mind. Lastly, Joe seems like he is consenting and certainly hasn’t objected.
Arguably, it’s not implicitly given by him being her boyfriend though, it’s explicitly given by him being okay with it. The ways he expresses that he’s okay with it may be subtle, but I still do see Jo_cubstar’s point.
My first girlfriend and I had significantly different tolerances for affectionate touch like this. It could fall under “issues that should’ve been negotiated beforehand”, but like, there’s nothing *wrong* with that.
Obviously Joe is 100,000,000% okay with all of this here, and I suspect might even welcome the endearing Joyce neuroses too. And I kinda suspect Joyce may be affecting her old persona a bit, and that she may not literally mean the things she’s saying here. But while I have no doubt that she has Joe’s consent, it is also true that the existence of their relationship did not in itself *give* that consent for him.
I don’t understand what you think the word “explicit” means.
There’s this weirdly common refusal to acknowledge that for a *lot* of things – especially non-intercourse things – communication of consent is not typically explicit.
There will also be pervy comments about them manually manipulating each other. with their hands. on their sexy bits. and I’m hoping I’ll be here for all of it. May even need to scratch up some coin for slipeon or patrishine.
While it is not true in every romantic relation (either because the consent is made explicit, because a lack of standing consent is made explicit, or because the parties have reason not to assume), it is certainly true in this relationship that Joe implicitly consented to touches from Joyce which include his exposed arms when he became her boyfriend.
That consent remains revokable at any time for any reason.
Like, some people don’t do this situationship stuff. If we are dating, we are boyfriend/girlfriend. If we are not boyfriend/girlfriend then we do not go on dates. And I don’t date someone I wouldn’t marry. And I ended up getting married following these rules, so they’re still viable in the modern age!
… Was that always clearly communicated? When I was 15 or 16, I got dumped by somebody I hadn’t realised thought we were dating
(We met at a weekly music event thingy, he seemed nice, we kissed but forgot to swap numbers, he didn’t come back the next week so I shrugged and decided it wasn’t meant to be and moved on with my life… And then I got a break-up letter delivered at the following one coz this was something I attended practically weekly. One of my friends asked me to go along with something then kissed me which One of his friends told him, and apparently he didn’t condone bisexual activity of any sort – if he’d mentioned that when we’d met then I’d have let him know I didn’t condone LGTB * discrimination of any sort and saved us both some time – plus maybe he thought I’d cheated on him, despite me having no way to contact him, or expectation of seeing him again at that point..?)
*I think this was in 1999? So I probably wouldn’t have said LGBTQIA because when I was a young’in, there weren’t as many letters it was a few years before I heard discussions about it being expanded to recognise the wider queer community, intersex individuals, and people on the ace spectrum, with an asterisk to denote the inclusivity…
In fairness, I had absolutely rubbish taste in guys back then. Taste in girls possibly worse, but unless you count “sociopathic friend who realised I had a massive crush on her and then put the moves on me, so I’d basically do whatever she wanted” as a secret relationship no actual girlfriends… I had four boyfriends in my teens, one of whom I accidentally got engaged to. None of those relationships were healthy. The one I got engaged to was 6 years older than me (legal in the UK, but he really liked that he was dating a 16 year old schoolgirl, to the point that it stopped being a “yes, there is an age gap” thing for me to an “OK, you are being creepy about this”). Two of the others assaulted me to different degrees, one shortly after we broke up and we’re staying friends, one during; sex ed was so great back then I didn’t actually get that if it happens within a relationship, it’s not a “technically” thing, it counts, so didn’t immediately dump him… Did point out this “technicality” – then comfort him after he cried. Then when, I thought we got back together after we did break up, he told me we hadn’t because he thought I’d been too drunk to know what I was doing so I asked him if he was telling me he had done stuff with me while I was unable to consent, or if he wanted to maybe give me a different explanation as to what was going on. He tried to pull the “I can’t believe you think I could do that!” card and I reminded him of the time I’d told him “No” 50 times until I was too exhausted to speak any more. Apparently he forgot. How nice for him. He then told our mutual friends I was making false rape accusations… When one of them contacted me to check WTF, I clarified. I wasn’t saying he had THAT TIME, I was giving him a chance to tell me about his best friend’s girlfriend he’d just gotten together with (the ex best friend had filled me in). Then reminded him, when he tried to be outraged at the suggestion, that this didn’t work…
I would have hand on heart said I was in love with 3 of the 4 of them and that it was true love etc… The creepy older one I’d probably have admitted I got with because I was lonely and my friends were pairing off and he seemed harmless (I really didn’t mean to get engaged to him! He got down on one knee and said “I’m not proposing to you” – he asked me if, if we were still together when I finished university in 4-5 years, I’d consider getting engaged to him! Yes seemed like a safe reply)…
But yeah, my husband is amazing. My marriage is wonderful. We have been together for nearly 19 years now, and friends a few years longer than that. We’ve had rough patches, but we have never stopped loving each other.
When I was a suicidally depressed/recovering teen with deep self esteem issues, honestly, I was better off single/maybe snogging somebody rather than dating. My dating choices were BAD.
It’s fine. The only time frame that matters is the one they both agree to and Joe never complained. It’s just nice to see a couple on the same wavelength.
She may be reversing a trope, but it’s still just sexism. Doesn’t matter if it’s favourable or denegrating, sexism just is. The term “reverse sexism” may be worth avoiding as it seems primarily used both by anti-feminists/misogynists, and their equally radical counter-parts who argue men can’t be victims of sexism.
For once, I actually kind of understand why normal, non-misogynistic, people might see and wonder if it counts as “reverse sexism.”
BUT, after re-reading this strip a couple of times, I realized that this is actually a pretty natural extension of her usual, ultra-conservative, fundie brand of sexism. In the worldview she grew up with, Joyce is naturally a pure, virginal, chaste, woman who is constantly threatened by large, sexually aggressive, (probably non-Christian and/or non-white) men. And only when her inevitable husband decides it’s time to be fruitful and multiply will she dutifully have sex, purely for the purposes of procreation.
So, when Joyce says that Joe is “dressed provocatively” and that she’s “implicitly allowed” to touch his biceps, it really does carry a different meaning than it would if their genders were switched. When conservative men say that sort of thing, it tends to be because they’re trying to naturalize their sexual aggression against women, and make it seem consensual on the woman’s part. In contrast, I think Joyce’s brain is currently tying itself in knots in order to invent a version of reality where she does NOT, in fact, want anything sexual from Joe, and is in fact the passive chaste recipient of his aggressive masculine wiles. Thus the “monster” and “how dare you” comments.
Whew, that ended up being a lot longer than I thought it would. TLDR, if you think Joyce’s comments are rape culture, you’re not exactly wrong, but the roles she’s implying for herself and Joe are probably the inverse of what you think they are. That’s how I’m reading it, anyway!
That’s spot on!
It’s SUCH a toxic mindset that puts “i’m touching you“ and “how dare you“ in one phrase, following the idea that humans are incapable of controlling their lust *because the other person dressed provocatively“.
Joyce, welcome to having a libido. It is up to you to control what you do with it, not to others how they dress. But also, yeah, he’s her boyfriend and he probably is very ok with her touching him (but from his face, i guess he’d rather not be slutshamed while she does it )
Look, Joyce, you don’t need to be embarrassed by who you’re attracted to or what physical features they have that you’re attracted to. There’s nothing wrong with being a bicepual.
DYW! You’re messing with the future and could create a time paradox, the results of which could cause a chain reaction that would unravel the very fabric of the space time continuum, and destroy the entire universe!
Oh, definitely Joyce. Lucy is crazy about Walky romantically, and therefore wants to bang. But Joyce is just horny. Lucy wouldn’t lose her mind over the sight of Walky in a t-shirt.
Tiny gym shorts and a tank top, tho? I dunno, I think Lucy just about vibrated out of existence in the comic before last, and that was at the mere suggestion of bare Walky skin.
Honestly I think this is one of the things Joyce and Lucy have in common. Lucy (HOPEFULLY, jeez Liz) doesn’t have the same baggage around losing her virginity as Joyce, and she’s a more minor character so we haven’t spent as much time on it, but I would bet the horniness levels are similar.
Lucy lost her mind over Walky in a button up. I think Lucy is ridiculously lustful to the point of forsaking Walky’s personality, placing words in his mouth and deciding herself that they need to have sex after a specific time period. She is so caught up in needing to have sex, she ignores a lot of his needs for comfort-ie) just doing nothing with her, watching cartoons, letting things happen naturally. If (when) they break up, she’ll make the next “Do-List” and will have to give out horny-apology donuts.
(but Joyce actually appreciates Joe without a checklist. She’s horny, but also seems to be respectful about it.)
Joyce has a better romantic connection, she cares about Joe as a person, they’ve had deep conversations. But that’s moot when it comes to horniness.
But Lucy is more horny. It’s almost all she can talk about.
definitely joyce but I think that might be partially because she knows her actual boyfriend while lucy is, sadly, extremely into her idea of walky and it’s just not the same
You know, I think we might be seeing another sign of Joyce’s character development.
I mean, she came from a really religiously, socially, and politically conservative background. But then came specific events like the first time Toedad kidnapped Becky and a more general liberalizing of her world view. And now, possibly as a consequence of all that, we see her opposing the right to bare arms.
I’m getting a mix of “this is embarrassing to watch” and “you are making a huge mistake and I’m torn between allowing you to continue and trying to break you up”, with a side of “… she ain’t wrong though”
i think shes eye rolling joyce’s Nievete….. I’ve seen this reaction from raised ultra-religious types the first time they go to a real gym ……..they thought the arms and legs were so hot and were confused between attraction and guild when they noticed the sports tops of some of the women they almost fainted …and we were like of that’s just jill the trainer ….granted she was hot but I knew her when she was in the 3rd grade with braces lol
Legitimately hoping for a follow-up joke, knowing she’s into ass, of how Willis attempts to render her expression upon him bending over in those things.
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hi Joe !
How happy for Sarah she came along to see this!
of all the unmitigated gall
Imagine, people having arms! TOUCHABLE ARMS
And bare, exposed SHOULDERS! Scandalous!
In a school!!! How will the boys be able to study?
truly, they’ll spend too much time ruminating on the taboo nature and wind up developing a kink as an adult
won’t anyone think of the children?
No, definitely not – that kink is illegal.
imagine if he had been wearing that one crop top hoodie lol
Joe has the right to bare arms….
It’s right there in his morning constitutional.
Is “bleh” another of those “I can’t believe this wasn’t already a comic name” titles?
I’m surprised
Sarah looks begrudgingly impressed. Makes sense. We’ve known her type for awhile.
SArah is already regretting her decision XD
I’m reading her expression as, “Dah fuck?”
Sarah looks like she’s feeling a lot of feelings all at once.
Sympathy for Joe was not expected to be one of them.
annoyance at being in this particular situation going up, but general animosity for Joe slightly lowering or at least in flux.
You know, I thought she was just rolling her eyes at first, but now that you’re pointed it out I definitely can’t unsee that lip bite in the last panel. You’re right, Joyce is most certainly not the only one getting turned on here.
Sarah is going to roll her eyes so hard they pop out, and start rolling down the hallway.
Also, why do I get the feeling that Joyce will want sex after working out with Joe?
. . .*after*?
She’s two panels away from crawling un that hoodie with him and hankying his panky!
Having spent the night wrapped in the arms of one lover, has primed the pumps of her desire to wrap herself around the arms of her other lover.
I think Joyce wanting sex and allowing herself any degree of exploration of that are separated by a currently insurmountable chasm. But if, of the three non-banging couples in strip currently, Joyce and Joe end up being the first pair to seal the deal, I definitely won’t be mad.
~aye aye aaayeee~
*plays “Awaken Pillar Men” from JoJo Soundtrack CD on hacked muzak*
Joe’s full first name is Joseph, after all…
Joe/Joyce = JoJo, coincidence?
So they’re going to get plenty of use out of a punching bag today?
(Disclaimer: everything I know about JoJo I learned from Soundsmith’s TF2 videos, which basically amounts to “they run around yelling and punching things really fast”.)
Hey. Nice rhombic dodecahedron, the best isohedral polyhedron.
(Cries in D10)
Y’know I’m normally not to fond of this gag (don’t ask why, I couldn’t tell ya. My brain dum) but this one is the exception. I love this one
I feel like Sarah is fighting with herself not to think this is cute or like this interaction. She doesn’t want to be okay with any of this, but well… Look at them.
i mean even a non sarah person might roll their eyes at this but at least given how easily flustered joyce gets over some bare arms, she doesn’t have to worry about walking in on joyce and joe in a room alone
I mean if we’re rating sexy outfits I think Sarah’s absolutely demolishing Joe here and Joyce didn’t even bring it up. Didn’t even rub her midriff.
R U D E. I’LL RUB SARAH’S MIDRIFF (I understand there will be consequences)
Mym, I love your post here. The fact that you acknowledge that there will be consequences got me so bad.
I’m prepared for hospitalization. I made sure my insurance will cover “Act of Sarah” first
Hey now. Hey.
They’re both hot.
The bisexual dilemma.
Rub ALL the midriffs!
I dont see the dilemma
The bisexual advantage
The baseball bat dilemma.
Hey now, hey now, when the world comes in-
I mean, have we seen Joyce express sexual or romantic attraction to Sarah at all? She seems to see her more as a big sister than anyone romantically or sexually attractive.
Silly Some1, that doesn’t matter.
She definitely tells Sarah that she’s a very pretty lady at least once (pretty certain wording was “very pretty” but a synonym for female person that wasn’t “lady” may have been used). She is aware Sarah is attractive but I don’t think she has ever got flustered by her attractiveness in the way she sometimes does by Sal/Dorothy/Jennifer’s hypnoboobs…
maybe jacob will appreciate it lol
Was gonna say yesterday. Sarah ain’t a slouch.
Sarah looks great, yeah!
More of that sort of thing please.
But also Joyce is pretty damn cute in that outfit, with her hair up.
NGL, Sarah in this outfit is making my bowtie spin while someone plays a slide whistle off screen. Maybe I have to draw something…
Probably spent too much time on this but here ya go, you decide who’s hotter.
Its kinda spicy but more or less sfw, features abs:
https://i.imgur.com/WcMTGzx.png
ahaha BOTH
Nice
Huh, I posted this kinda late, you think would it be gauche to post it again for tomorrows comic?
Just say you’re posting it again, and keep the Faz icon to negate any faux pas
sounds like a plan, don’t worry Faz is my spirit animal
I do enjoy the shirtless hoodie look, I think it’s underused.
And Joe rocks it well. And he’s keeping to his colour scheme of greens and purples.
Of course he’s the bad guy here, HE’S wearing villain colors!
and Amazi-Girl is, naturally, in two of the three primaries.
(who wears red? looks like… Carla. and sometimes Booster. huh.)
Jennifer wears red
Even though this ship is not my favorite, let’s say: THIS is chemistry!!! Go back one page then return. Compare. View a couple in which both people are interested in each other
I was unaware that “fireman pinup calendars” are a thing, and I’m not sure I want to risk the impact that attempting to verify this will have on my Google search results.
…DuckDuckGo it is, then.
Oh they definitely are a thing.
There are also ‘men in kilts’ pinup calendars, if you’re into that as well.
I believe there are also “firemen holding puppies” pin-up calendars. I assume these are the softcore level Joyce is thinking of (shirtless/maybe an open jacket revealing a muscled, bare chest, no chance of seeing weenus, also puppies!).
You mean Australian firefighters holding puppies in casual settings?
(h/t Tina Belcher)
Joe would be a poor fireman. He’s presence would simply be counter productive – he is just too hot. I mean look – Joyce is already burning up just being near him. By panel five she is melting!!
“Cover them up, slut!”
“My arms?”
Joyce’s logic in the last panel has strong “women deserve to get assaulted or harassed because they dress a certain way” parallels.
Yeah, I was definitely taking it as a riff on that. Pointing out how bad that logic is in its real-world usage by showing it in its (surprisingly cute) Bizarro World version. It’s good social commentary, because it works both on its own as humor and making the point, and good writing because either this as a serious reaction from Joyce or this as fake moral outrage to cover up her extremely obvious actual reaction (in a way which Joyce knows her friends would perceive as in-character for her) are believably in-character for her.
(Just as either reading of Becky’s possibly-pointed comment in yesterday’s strip about how people assume men are always consenting by default can be read either way based on her character, actually. This kinda makes me think both comments were made intentionally with the latter plausible deniability but total self-awareness – leaning into the mirrored sexist stereotypes consciously for an intended effect, either to jostle Walky out of complacency or to do this kind of complicated flirty thing with Joe where Joyce is affecting a flanderized version of herself that I suspect is also giving Joe exactly the kind of endearing Joyce ridiculousness he craves. I feel like that self-awareness is pretty cool character development, really.)
I think she buries a lot of her own sexual desires in that kind of logic, without realizing the problematic aspect of it. She has a lot of purity culture to unlearn. The part that’s not verbalized is that they’re dating and Joe is clearly okay with being touched. She never said anything like that about Jacob.
She’s speaking figuratively.
god what an annoying/ moon person take
How the hell did you read that??
It doesn’t, though. At all.
It’s amazing, I’ve been waiting for Joe and Joyce to be a thing for literal years and I’m still not used to the fact that they’re actually canon now.
Yeah, I’m still surprised how much I like the pairing. But it’s been foreshadowed and teased for years through their interactions and character development, so it feels very natural.
It’s definitely earned, and as much as I wanted it, looking back at a lot of past moments knowing what we know now, it was even more laid out than it felt.
I like to think of them as Joe+Joyce= “Joy”, and that about sums it up these days, too.
Erm Joyce, hate to tell you this, but you know that’s not how consent works, right? Like yeah Joe does seem to be cool with this so whatever, but just cause he’s your boyfriend does not mean you can touch him whenever you want…
well it did look like his arms were extended for a hug to begin with, but i suppose sarah pointed it out might help joyce cool down
yes, that’s what it means
if he doesn’t let you hold hands, touch arms or shoulders, he’s either not really your boyfriend, or he has issues that should’ve been negotiated beforehand (and that we know Joe doesn’t have)
Seconded. They’ve been smooching. Within the context of a relationship a certain amount of consent becomes communicated by body language. This is generally understood as we are animals. The burden of seeking or clarifying consent absolutely goes up as the relationship is newer or less well defined, and obviously is always worth keeping in mind. Lastly, Joe seems like he is consenting and certainly hasn’t objected.
Arguably, it’s not implicitly given by him being her boyfriend though, it’s explicitly given by him being okay with it. The ways he expresses that he’s okay with it may be subtle, but I still do see Jo_cubstar’s point.
My first girlfriend and I had significantly different tolerances for affectionate touch like this. It could fall under “issues that should’ve been negotiated beforehand”, but like, there’s nothing *wrong* with that.
Obviously Joe is 100,000,000% okay with all of this here, and I suspect might even welcome the endearing Joyce neuroses too. And I kinda suspect Joyce may be affecting her old persona a bit, and that she may not literally mean the things she’s saying here. But while I have no doubt that she has Joe’s consent, it is also true that the existence of their relationship did not in itself *give* that consent for him.
Not disagreeing, I’m agreeing with all three of you, just very pedantically.
I don’t understand what you think the word “explicit” means.
There’s this weirdly common refusal to acknowledge that for a *lot* of things – especially non-intercourse things – communication of consent is not typically explicit.
Oh no, Joyce is molesting Joe. He seems very bothered.
When they get to hand stuff, there will be angry comments about them manipulating each other.
Consent and implicated consent seems to confuse this fanbase
Explicit verbal consent confuses this fucking fanbase.
+1
There will also be pervy comments about them manually manipulating each other. with their hands. on their sexy bits. and I’m hoping I’ll be here for all of it. May even need to scratch up some coin for slipeon or patrishine.
Your gravatar is perfect for this
at least one person picked up on the wordplay, phew.
Yes. They were well manipulated words. Dextrous even, like fingers rushing to undo buttons.
While it is not true in every romantic relation (either because the consent is made explicit, because a lack of standing consent is made explicit, or because the parties have reason not to assume), it is certainly true in this relationship that Joe implicitly consented to touches from Joyce which include his exposed arms when he became her boyfriend.
That consent remains revokable at any time for any reason.
Still feel like she’s jumped to boyfriend pretty fast
She was using it even before they kissed
To be fair I had a girlfriend before I kissed my girfriend. It was just clear we were going steady.
I have never kissed a rando that was not my SO.
Like, some people don’t do this situationship stuff. If we are dating, we are boyfriend/girlfriend. If we are not boyfriend/girlfriend then we do not go on dates. And I don’t date someone I wouldn’t marry. And I ended up getting married following these rules, so they’re still viable in the modern age!
… Was that always clearly communicated? When I was 15 or 16, I got dumped by somebody I hadn’t realised thought we were dating
(We met at a weekly music event thingy, he seemed nice, we kissed but forgot to swap numbers, he didn’t come back the next week so I shrugged and decided it wasn’t meant to be and moved on with my life… And then I got a break-up letter delivered at the following one coz this was something I attended practically weekly. One of my friends asked me to go along with something then kissed me which
One of his friends told him, and apparently he didn’t condone bisexual activity of any sort – if he’d mentioned that when we’d met then I’d have let him know I didn’t condone LGTB * discrimination of any sort and saved us both some time – plus maybe he thought I’d cheated on him, despite me having no way to contact him, or expectation of seeing him again at that point..?)
*I think this was in 1999? So I probably wouldn’t have said LGBTQIA because
when I was a young’in, there weren’t as many lettersit was a few years before I heard discussions about it being expanded to recognise the wider queer community, intersex individuals, and people on the ace spectrum, with an asterisk to denote the inclusivity…In fairness, I had absolutely rubbish taste in guys back then. Taste in girls possibly worse, but unless you count “sociopathic friend who realised I had a massive crush on her and then put the moves on me, so I’d basically do whatever she wanted” as a secret relationship no actual girlfriends… I had four boyfriends in my teens, one of whom I accidentally got engaged to. None of those relationships were healthy. The one I got engaged to was 6 years older than me (legal in the UK, but he really liked that he was dating a 16 year old schoolgirl, to the point that it stopped being a “yes, there is an age gap” thing for me to an “OK, you are being creepy about this”). Two of the others assaulted me to different degrees, one shortly after we broke up and we’re staying friends, one during; sex ed was so great back then I didn’t actually get that if it happens within a relationship, it’s not a “technically” thing, it counts, so didn’t immediately dump him… Did point out this “technicality” – then comfort him after he cried. Then when, I thought we got back together after we did break up, he told me we hadn’t because he thought I’d been too drunk to know what I was doing so I asked him if he was telling me he had done stuff with me while I was unable to consent, or if he wanted to maybe give me a different explanation as to what was going on. He tried to pull the “I can’t believe you think I could do that!” card and I reminded him of the time I’d told him “No” 50 times until I was too exhausted to speak any more. Apparently he forgot. How nice for him. He then told our mutual friends I was making false rape accusations… When one of them contacted me to check WTF, I clarified. I wasn’t saying he had THAT TIME, I was giving him a chance to tell me about his best friend’s girlfriend he’d just gotten together with (the ex best friend had filled me in). Then reminded him, when he tried to be outraged at the suggestion, that this didn’t work…
I would have hand on heart said I was in love with 3 of the 4 of them and that it was true love etc… The creepy older one I’d probably have admitted I got with because I was lonely and my friends were pairing off and he seemed harmless (I really didn’t mean to get engaged to him! He got down on one knee and said “I’m not proposing to you” – he asked me if, if we were still together when I finished university in 4-5 years, I’d consider getting engaged to him! Yes seemed like a safe reply)…
But yeah, my husband is amazing. My marriage is wonderful. We have been together for nearly 19 years now, and friends a few years longer than that. We’ve had rough patches, but we have never stopped loving each other.
When I was a suicidally depressed/recovering teen with deep self esteem issues, honestly, I was better off single/maybe snogging somebody rather than dating. My dating choices were BAD.
It’s fine. The only time frame that matters is the one they both agree to and Joe never complained. It’s just nice to see a couple on the same wavelength.
The look on Sarah’s face in the last panel is a mood.
Gawd. I know. Eeeugh
Shame on you, Joe.
…wasn’t this on a bookmark? Am I making that up?
NOPE I’M NOT
That explains why I couldn’t remember that strip lol
Speaking of which, I wrote the foreword to that volume. I called you all filthy fuckers. Check it out.
Flatterer
I’ll have you know I shower regularly.
In contrast, I’ll have you know that I have sex fairly irregularly. The nerve of implying otherwise by calling me a fucker!
You’ve got me on the filthy part though, admittedly.
XD Joyce is admiring!
Is Joyce showing reverse sexism? I can almost hear her saying “If he didn’t want me doing this he wouldn’t be dressed like that”.
No.
She may be reversing a trope, but it’s still just sexism. Doesn’t matter if it’s favourable or denegrating, sexism just is. The term “reverse sexism” may be worth avoiding as it seems primarily used both by anti-feminists/misogynists, and their equally radical counter-parts who argue men can’t be victims of sexism.
Much like the term reverse racism.
please be joking
A woman flirting is reverse patriarchy.
What in the absolute sweet fuck does “reverse sexism” mean?
If someone is being /sexist/ it’s just called “sexism.”
For once, I actually kind of understand why normal, non-misogynistic, people might see and wonder if it counts as “reverse sexism.”
BUT, after re-reading this strip a couple of times, I realized that this is actually a pretty natural extension of her usual, ultra-conservative, fundie brand of sexism. In the worldview she grew up with, Joyce is naturally a pure, virginal, chaste, woman who is constantly threatened by large, sexually aggressive, (probably non-Christian and/or non-white) men. And only when her inevitable husband decides it’s time to be fruitful and multiply will she dutifully have sex, purely for the purposes of procreation.
So, when Joyce says that Joe is “dressed provocatively” and that she’s “implicitly allowed” to touch his biceps, it really does carry a different meaning than it would if their genders were switched. When conservative men say that sort of thing, it tends to be because they’re trying to naturalize their sexual aggression against women, and make it seem consensual on the woman’s part. In contrast, I think Joyce’s brain is currently tying itself in knots in order to invent a version of reality where she does NOT, in fact, want anything sexual from Joe, and is in fact the passive chaste recipient of his aggressive masculine wiles. Thus the “monster” and “how dare you” comments.
Whew, that ended up being a lot longer than I thought it would. TLDR, if you think Joyce’s comments are rape culture, you’re not exactly wrong, but the roles she’s implying for herself and Joe are probably the inverse of what you think they are. That’s how I’m reading it, anyway!
That’s spot on!
)
It’s SUCH a toxic mindset that puts “i’m touching you“ and “how dare you“ in one phrase, following the idea that humans are incapable of controlling their lust *because the other person dressed provocatively“.
Joyce, welcome to having a libido. It is up to you to control what you do with it, not to others how they dress. But also, yeah, he’s her boyfriend and he probably is very ok with her touching him (but from his face, i guess he’d rather not be slutshamed while she does it
Look, Joyce, you don’t need to be embarrassed by who you’re attracted to or what physical features they have that you’re attracted to. There’s nothing wrong with being a bicepual.
*flees for dear punning life*
If you flee, then some tiresome bore may try to muscle in on your territory …
I hear tricepuals are even rarer!
–Dave, but yes, that was well done
I grant refugium to all punners. Keep punning.
Okay Joyce now do pull up’s on Joes arms
Sarah looking for the bear suit.
the other reference not intended
Forty-Four comments and no one has made a 2nd Amendment joke about Joe’s Right To Bare Arms?
I don’t know you people any more.
it’s ok someone did that joke in the 3 minutes it took you to type up your post
the real question is whether the 1st Amendment gives Mario the right to freeze Peach…
The Mushroom Kingdom is not affected by the United States’ Constitution. The implications are horrifying.
I swear I’ve seen this comic before.
Oh yeah, it was on the bookmark that came with the Kickstarter book! I had no idea they were comics from the future! Awesome.
DYW! You’re messing with the future and could create a time paradox, the results of which could cause a chain reaction that would unravel the very fabric of the space time continuum, and destroy the entire universe!
Things you can get away with when your buffer goes out to the heat death of the universe.
Bare arms, scandalously short shorts? Joe you harlot.
Sarah: “Yeah yeah, now where’s Jacob?”
naturally Sarah is scandalized by all this salacious behavior
Same Sarah, same. LOL
Joe then proceeded to raise Joyce off the ground repeatedly.
He leefts her ahp and puts her dowghn.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7gzmoqmL7g
I still don’t understand the hand thing these people do when they greet each other.
It’s unclear. Panel 1 looks like the beginning of a hug, but in panel 2 it looks like they went for a double hand-hold.
Either way it’s a gesture of mutual affection and desire, and I’m happy for them.
Sarah has fists in case she needs to punch someone.
everyone else does jazz hands to greet each other.
If this situation is real, I am Sarah, because I would be very grumpy, as my friends are getting intimacy with their dates.
[Sarah] . o O ( Joyce is entirely too horny for someone not wearing clown paint )
Time to really start a flame war in the comments.
Who’s hornier for their boyfriend? Joyce or Lucy?
Oh, definitely Joyce. Lucy is crazy about Walky romantically, and therefore wants to bang. But Joyce is just horny. Lucy wouldn’t lose her mind over the sight of Walky in a t-shirt.
Tiny gym shorts and a tank top, tho? I dunno, I think Lucy just about vibrated out of existence in the comic before last, and that was at the mere suggestion of bare Walky skin.
You do have a point.
But imagine how Joyce would react to the thought of Joe being nude. Blush city.
Honestly I think this is one of the things Joyce and Lucy have in common. Lucy (HOPEFULLY, jeez Liz) doesn’t have the same baggage around losing her virginity as Joyce, and she’s a more minor character so we haven’t spent as much time on it, but I would bet the horniness levels are similar.
Lucy lost her mind over Walky in a button up. I think Lucy is ridiculously lustful to the point of forsaking Walky’s personality, placing words in his mouth and deciding herself that they need to have sex after a specific time period. She is so caught up in needing to have sex, she ignores a lot of his needs for comfort-ie) just doing nothing with her, watching cartoons, letting things happen naturally. If (when) they break up, she’ll make the next “Do-List” and will have to give out horny-apology donuts.
(but Joyce actually appreciates Joe without a checklist. She’s horny, but also seems to be respectful about it.)
Joyce has a better romantic connection, she cares about Joe as a person, they’ve had deep conversations. But that’s moot when it comes to horniness.
But Lucy is more horny. It’s almost all she can talk about.
Lucy. It’s almost all she ever talks about, whereas Joyce is just very enthusiastic when it comes up.
Joyce and Joe go sit on some washing machines together, reading each other erotica from A03.
(UGH I DIDN’T MEAN TO FLAG YOU. WHY IS IT RIGHT NEXT TO THE REPLY BUTTON)
I’m gonna say Joyce cuz I like her more than Lucy.
I’m gonna say Lucy because I like Joyce better than her.
+1
definitely joyce but I think that might be partially because she knows her actual boyfriend while lucy is, sadly, extremely into her idea of walky and it’s just not the same
You know, I think we might be seeing another sign of Joyce’s character development.
I mean, she came from a really religiously, socially, and politically conservative background. But then came specific events like the first time Toedad kidnapped Becky and a more general liberalizing of her world view. And now, possibly as a consequence of all that, we see her opposing the right to bare arms.
Thank you for this.
Sarah is just salty because she wants to climb all over Jacob like he is a jungle gym.
… I love being bi.
Being asexual makes me feel like Sarah in the last panel (not implying Sarah isn’t a horny beast)
“Fireman Pinup Calendar”.
At least neither of them are wearing mauve shoes.
“How dare you make me so horny and gropey!”
is sarah sickened or is she jealous that she’s not doing that with jacob
I’m getting a mix of “this is embarrassing to watch” and “you are making a huge mistake and I’m torn between allowing you to continue and trying to break you up”, with a side of “… she ain’t wrong though”
Yeah. And it’s a lot of side.
i think shes eye rolling joyce’s Nievete….. I’ve seen this reaction from raised ultra-religious types the first time they go to a real gym ……..they thought the arms and legs were so hot and were confused between attraction and guild when they noticed the sports tops of some of the women they almost fainted …and we were like of that’s just jill the trainer ….granted she was hot but I knew her when she was in the 3rd grade with braces lol
if Jacob doesn’t show up, I think Sarah might explode
Seems accurate.
Joyce either blinded by the arms or knows that if she consciously registers those booty shorts she’ll have an aneurysm
Legitimately hoping for a follow-up joke, knowing she’s into ass, of how Willis attempts to render her expression upon him bending over in those things.
“How dare I make advances and give into the lust! The nerve!”
She’ll be looking at more than just Honey Buns at this point
If Joe had only known Joyce was this easy, he could have bared his arms and had her at the first date.
…And Mike would have punched him.
On the plus side, Joyce is having a whole lot of fun. Conflicted fun for sure, but that counts
Joe, are you a swimmer? Or is Willis just not bothering to draw the axillary hair that has got to go with that perpetual stubble?
–Dave, “the rest of you can look it up when you get home” – T. Lehrer
I heard his chest hair goes all the way down to his toes