Winona runs a werewolf shelter with partner in crime, Odile in the Gothic city of Merlot. One day they take in an injured vampire, and soon unravels many of the dark secrets of Merlot.
No End
Erli, Kromi
A queer romance about people attempting to build lives in a cold, post-apocalyptic world ravaged by hordes of undead.
Dumbing of Age
David M Willis
Joyce has been homeschooled her entire life until now, when she's suddenly a freshman in college! Things don't go well.
Guilded Age
T Campbell, John Waltrip, Florence Machina
Welcome to the saga of the working-class adventurer! Enjoy the complete story with new annotations daily!
Hemlock
Josceline Fenton
A witch accidentally marries a monster, and now she and her familiar has to navigate life around her monstrous husband and her even more terrifying in-laws.
All Known Alternatives
Karolina 'Kajotko' Jankiewicz
Akane has only one way to get back home: collect the 42 keys to parallel worlds. Eri and Ben are just trying to get through the summer before university. When a magical key turns up in an old spare set, all three are forced to change their plans and fast.
Cyanide & Happiness
Explosm
Satire, dark humor and surreal humor.
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It’s more likely he would have encouraged the scheme to make Walky learn the painful lesson of “you shouldn’t enable your parents’ biases by throwing your partner under the bus” and make Lucy learn the painful lesson of “if your man can’t confront his parents’ racism for you, he ain’t worth it”
Mike liked being good, but only as long as it was cruel good
Depending on how much Mike actually likes you, he won’t stop you from doing the stupid thing but it’ll change how obvious he makes it that the thing you’re doing is stupid.
I feel like he would have stopped it, but only because Amber was the one getting dragged into it. If Walky was involving literally anybody else he probably would have made a few snide comments and then sat back to watch the fireworks.
Are we talking about the time he repeatedly punched someone for money, the time he convinced his best friend to go back in the closet, then mocked him for it, or the time he decided to mess with said best friend’s head in order to mess up someone else’s head even worse?
Some of what Mike did led to people having realisations and becoming better. I have yet to be convinced that that was a goal he ever had, and even if it was, it clearly wasn’t a goal he always had.
I mean, both of those count I think? Him punching Joe is tricky but it was the first step towards Joe learning to treat women with even a tiny bit of respect
Also he didn’t really want Ethan to go back in the closet; Ethan kind of read his sarcasm wrong. But after that, Mike realized that Ethan needed to come out on his own and not be outed again, and helped him get to that point
Walky needs a Mike on each shoulder, angel Mike to tell him his plans are dumb meanly, and a devil Mike to tell him his plans were dumb after they’ve blown up.
You probably knew a decade before you first drew him. Which must have been really confusing, knowing you were going to kill off a character you hadn’t created yet, in a story you had no idea you’d write, in a format you had no clue you’d do.
Yeah, I could see Mike making one comment about what a shit plan it was and then holding back until it came crashing down so he could do some form of “Told you so.”
And I could see him dissuading Walky from following through with it because he wouldn’t want Amber to get dragged into that mess (unless he was doing the dragging).
I didn’t get a chance to comment this yesterday due to Christmas Eve plans but man, Linda excusing Jennifer’s dui is already pretty crummy, both because of how Sal’s mistakes are still framed as being forever and always, yet Jennifer’s are cause she’s young, but we also gotta remember that Alice was in that car wreck too! But you know… just a mistake that could have been EXTREMELY DEADLY…
Billie checks all the boxes in Linda’s head so she’s fine to do whatever she wants. It’s such a well observed method of having a “good” parent who is exceptionally blind to their own faults.
It’s a little more understandable, if Linda only thinks of it as a one-time after Prom mistake by an otherwise good upstanding girl because Jennifer hid her pattern of partying, alcoholism and depression, while she knows more of Sal and sees it as a pattern of bad behavior.
A little more.
Getting way too drug or high is one thing, making the decision to drive afterwards is a move out of insane levels of selfishness, back when I did drink I would get blackout drunk all the time, never once did I drive with even a little alcohol in me.
Which sucks, because we’ve since been repeatedly exposed to both Linda and Carol, two moms who really deserve to be the subject of Your Mom jokes, but there are none to be had.
i was about to say that walky should direct his anger at blaine and not mike since its not mike was responsible for his own death and then i remembered oh right blaines dead too. rip loser
But Walky didn’t want Blaine to be there forever, so him dying doesn’t feel like a loss. Without loss, there is no anger over the loss.
The mere existence of loved ones means they made the implicit promise to continue existing, which is why a death can make you angry at someone for dying, even though you know that isn’t rational. We’re more than just rational beings.
So what are the odds Walky interpreted the earlier discussion with Lucy as a break up, decides to pursue Amber (or Dorothy, or someone else) only to later learn that Lucy did not interpret the discussion as a break up
It was definitely a break up. I’d worry for Lucy’s sanity a bit if she didn’t see saying ‘fuck you” to your partner in that context as a break up. I’d worry for Walky too.
She only said that she would be “brave enough” and said that they would see each other tomorrow, this can create different interpretations:
or Lucy really doesn’t want anything to do with Walky anymore or
A “new Lucy” will be presented who will not allow herself to be trampled on and this option is easily the most viable because a “determination” was seen in her eyes…of course this will not be good at all.
Look even he’s not that tasteless or atleast not tasteless enough to do that a second time.
Anyway I need like a time skip of a week or two into spring before I see Walky pursue another romantic pursuit. Which is probably going to come any time now since we’ve already spent a considerate amount of time in January…they got what another week left comic in comic time?
I feel like there’s still stuff we could see first. We’d be skipping completely over Joe and Joyce in their honeymoon period of just started dating, Sal and Danny too for that matter. Dorothy’s also just kind of hanging in this depression that I’d like to see resolve instead of hanging around for potential months. A skip soon could be possible though. No one else is really deep into huge stuff now that Walky and Lucy is over. They were kind of carrying the main drama as long as the Walkertons also leave soon.
It would be unhealthy for Walky to boomerang right back to an ex-girlfriend. But typical, since he is like one of those widowers who just likes being married and replaces their wife immediately like hiring a replacement housekeeper.
Ok. After seeing other comments, let me clarify my take.
I do not see what happened as a break up.
Not to say they won’t break up, but that I don’t see Lucy not clearly stating it, and waiting to tomorrow is supposed to give her time to think about if she’ll break up with him.
That said, when I said chances are low, I was specifically talking about Walky pursuing anyone.
I see people acting like Walky wants to be in a relationship.
That’s not the case.
Walky didn’t PURSUE Amber when he and Dorothy broke up.
He never planned to go after her and there was never any indication that they were feeling each other before it happened (unless you count the toy throwing, which I do, but only as confirmation bias in hindsight).
Amber just made the hurt go away some, the second day of pain at that, as the first day was spent drunk with Jason.
Hell, he never pursued Dorothy.
She knew he liked her, because he couldn’t help making it obvious, but she came to him.
If Walky was really the type to just want to be in a relationship all the time, he wouldn’t have been chilling during the time skip (which we can assume since there was no mention of any time skip love interest and it would be weird for there not to be unless it was a secret, which would be weirder), and he would have probably tried harder in the relationship with Lucy.
As for being hurt enough to somehow find someone to make him feel better, all we’ve seen is Walky be upset that he hurt Lucy, not that he himself is hurt.
So Walky pursuing anyone is low because pursuing someone isn’t his deal in the first place, he’s perfectly fine not being in a relationship, and he’s not hurt enough to need someone to make the pain go away and it somehow blossom into a rebound.
Could he somehow end up messing with Amber or Dorothy (couldn’t be anyone else because there’s no one else he’s close to nor even expressed attraction to)?
Sure, all kinds of mess could happen today in the strip, but it wouldn’t be his plan to do so.
Mike is a very divisive character in a webcomic that has a number of them, but I really love the direction this is going right now, with Walky really only vocalizing the Mike grief for basically the first time here. I am sure Amber’s reaction in panel 2 was some of us reading this.
It is, it is true that Mike liked to annoy everyone equally, but it is very possible that this harsh honesty was what really helped Walky to settle down,… Would it have to be a new character who is in charge of being “honest” with him?
Hey, Charlie is just Mike in a wig. I mean, sure, it keeps him busy hopping between Charlie and Booster and Jennifer identities, but what else does he have to do?
I know this was contradicted during the Halloween flashback but there is definitely still a part of me that holds on to hope for the Witness Protection Theory.
Alt-text beat me to the “Mike died for your sins” joke but Merry Christmas anyway! I don’t really have an alternative present planned
…uh, here’s a recently-discovered image of the cut Christmas level from Sonic 2 i guess? for the five people who care about this who somehow haven’t seen it yet
Is this going to be Amber and Walky start dating again because Walky admits that he misses Mike? And maybe admits to being an asshole when they were grieving for Mike?
If so I am once again all aboard the garbage skow.
A lot of people in the comments are going “now that Walky is properly apologizing for the bullshit that got Amber to break up with him, they’re going to get back together” but I don’t think relationships are that simple. It’s too late for an apology to fix things; this is just some much needed processing and closure for both of them.
First, it’s good to see that Walky really understood that he was an idiot, although I feel like I’m missing other details, well, that last bit is overthinking on my part.
The truth is…a return of this pair does not convince me, in addition to the fact that their relationship was born in a somewhat desperate way to let off steam in my opinion. BUT, everyone has their favorite ships and I am not going to be hypocritical, the truth is I want him to return to Dorothy, but she is in a very serious depressive circle that would mean that a character who is not close to characters close to her could help and many of the characters realize that she needed real help, I know that many want the savior to be Joyce, but the truth is that I feel that it would not be beneficial for her to do that, not to mention that after I noticed that she was talking with Jacob, she just said “it’s okay, I’ll allow it”, it’s obvious that she said it for Sarah, but she already showed a “possessive” side when Dorothy and Walky were dating, but because of that “concern” it could be an easily disguised obsession her
While I’d like them back together, it’s probably still too soon after his break up with Lucy and I both read and welcome this as Walky finally processing his grief and realizing how he fucked up with Amber by not recognizing she needed to deal with it another way.
Maybe at some point in the future they can get back together but this is very good growth for Walky.
Love that Walky says he wished someone was jerkishly brutally honest with him about the fake girlfriend, because Lucy got exactly that from Sarah and reminded her of the Dana situation to call her out. The parallels are *mwah*.
IMO this reflects better on Walky, since I’d call admitting something is right despite the person saying it being an asshole about it a pretty awesome demonstration of objectivity and maturity.
Whatever dude I’m still Team Danny, Mike doing something selfless at the very end of his life did not magically erase all the times he was an asshole to absolutely everyone and I don’t buy for a second that he would have tried to stop Walky from sabotaging his relationship with Lucy when sabotaging relationships (or twisting the knife when they fell apart) was the guy’s favorite pastime ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
That’s not how that works. You don’t get to be genuinely mean to other people and excuse it by saying “that’s how I show affection.” Kids learn that in grade school when they find out that they can’t tease their crush as a way of secretly saying they like them.
I don’t mean like teasing and banter among friends (although if your friend says they don’t like it when you tease them, and you don’t stop, you’re a bad friend). Mike was genuinely cruel to people in ways that clearly caused them emotional pain. The fact that he was “doing it from a place of love” doesn’t excuse that.
Mike sucks and the comic has been both better and worse since he died. Better because he was such a concentrated piece of shit that it’s like Melkor’s defeat at the end of the First Age. There’s no towering obelisk of shittiness that actively looks to hurt everyone around it for the crime of existing in the same space.
The comic’s worse because like Melkor’s defeat at the end of the First Age, his evil has spread out into the land and infected different members of the cast, with Sarah taking up his mantle most directly.
Yeah, won’t lie, I wanted to see where it was going, and I’ll always be a little worried that Willis killed Mike off at least partly bc they were worried about the audience’s reception to anything else. Which would be both a waste and a shame, since the folks who would’ve gotten out the torches and pitch forks over Mike completing his character arc… mostly just stopped commenting when he fell after trying to tackle Blane, because the mere act of Mike possibly dying heroically was already over the line for them.
I hope Mike’s death was a true “no regrets” moment for Willis and that they enjoyed the one last epic troll of Mike cheating everyone who knew him both in-universe and out- of a true conclusion to his character arc. I kinda suspect that in ten years, Mike’s death will at least be something they’d like to revisit in a future project? The same way they were creatively satisfied by Ruth and Dina’s Walkyverse deaths, but later came to regret them.
I’m always interested in seeing the different reactions to Mike. Having read these comics from the early days and seen the different iterations of him (and his relationships (“and you were gone in a flash of blinding light…”)) definitely changes how I interpreted the overall character and his potential for growth, his motivations, etc. in this comic.
I’d love to have a little statistic next to every comment about Mike that shows how many of the comics they’re read and in what order!
This is an interesting point. I’ve only ever read Dumbing of Age and I always found Mike flatly unlikable (although I try not to bring it up because it seems kinda rude). I’m like Danny, constantly wondering wtf people see in this guy (although, unlike Danny, I do understand people can see things very differently).
Also let me take this moment to say Danny was more or less right? In-universe, his position was the correct one, even if he picked a terrible way of saying it, a terrible time TO say it, and a terrible person to say it TO.
Even if you think the absolute worst of Mike — that he was an abuser, full-stop — Danny’s approach was a tactically unsound way of talking to an abuse victim about their abuser. It was kinda Doomed.
Shortpacked!, then Dumbing of Age through like 2016, then attempts to go chronologically through Roomies!, which were largely unsuccessful for a long time. I’d get a little ways in and then stop. I’ve read all of it now, though I definitely skimmed some of the Head Alien machinations.
So yeah, my first experience of Mike was in Shortpacked, and I liked his relationship with Amber, and I thought it was neat to get to see an AU where he was more into Ethan instead.
But more than just that? I’ve been increasingly alternately exhausted and really upset by the rise of, like. Anti-intellecualism, pro-Hays Code sentiments from people decades too young for them, and I don’t understand how the very real anti-trans legislation being enacted with that same “think of the children!!!” rationale isn’t giving more of these folks more pause.
Mike is a fictional character. He’s a cartoon. Liking him doesn’t make you a bad, unsafe person and disliking him doesn’t make you a good, safe person. Yes, there’s something to be said with what he’s historically “gotten away with” when compared with other characters who aren’t cis white men; absolutely that is worth some examination.
But the anti-Mike squad ’round these parts has literally both called me an abuse apologist and told me that if I find that upsetting, I should stop defending people who like him, soooooo.
The problem with liking Mike is there has long been a element of the fandom that doesn’t just like him as a character, but actually thinks he was a good person. An “asshole sage”, as someone put it. That every cruel thing he did was justified because it was to teach the other characters that he was trying to help. When it failed, it was only because they misunderstood or rejected his message.
The frustration with that sometimes spills over onto those who just like him as a character.
It’s like we still see with Joe, people show up to proclaim that there was never anything wrong with how early Joe behaved, which basically trivializes his whole growth arc.
I agree that that’s annoying, but like. Even that segment doesn’t deserve to be treated like they’re okay with or approving of real-life abuse.
Also I feel like I don’t see nearly as much splash back with Joe fans, where the reasonable ones get assumed to be unreasonable and awful? It’d be nice if reasonable Mike fans didn’t have to also worry about being Assumed Terrible.
The thing is, when you’ve got people pointing at abuse and going “Yeah, that’s a good thing he’s doing”, you’ve really got to wonder how they’d react in real life.
Most often the problem in real life is also not recognizing the abuse as abuse
…….I’ve rewritten my reply to this a bunch of times.
First: it’s… a choice on your part to respond to this thread, where I have repeatedly complained about how awful it feels to be accused of “supporting” real-life abuse just for defending folks who like Mike……… by telling me, in brief, “but gee we have to wonder if you’d support real-life abuse!”
Like. That’s kind of a crappy thing to do to a real person.
I wonder if disclosing that I’m an abuse survivor in my first comment on the matter would have made you think twice? Because it definitely didn’t stop the anti-Mike squad the last time I talked about this.
Are you sure that “most often” the problem in real life is that abuse happens in front of witnesses and then those witnesses get into a lengthy debate about whether or not the abuse was part of a Machiavellian plan to facilitate the victim’s character growth?
Are you sure that you actually have “people pointing at abuse” and calling it a good thing? Because I’m pretty sure the actual conversations in this comment section are debates about the actions of a cartoon character that even 99% of his fans will describe as an asshole.
Like. That’s not abuse. It may or may not be a fictional portrayal of abuse, but it is not a real person being really harmed, and it is in fact kind of a stretch to assume that someone’s willingness to debate the narrative utility of a cartoon character’s schemes is in any way reflective of how they would react to real-life abuse.
I am racking my brain and all I’ve got here in terms of similarities is the debate around corporal punishment, which is a very specific subset of abuse, and the argument there is almost always a combination of “I was spanked and I turned out fine” and “but no other type of discipline works with some kids, if they’re not spanked they’ll end up in prison”.
There’s still a world of difference between thinking Mike’s an Asshole Sage and having any specific opinion on corporeal punishment, but at least you won’t be as far out in left field.
(Also I’d bet there are pro-corporal people who hate Mike, too, because it’s still a shaky analogy. But it’s at least more accurate than “Mike is a typical abuser and liking him or defending him is the same thing as overlooking or defending RL abuse”.)
Finally: I know that a lot of the anti-Mike people are in pain.
I’ve said before, there’s a lot of Realness in this comic.
I fully understand being… well, triggered by Mike. Nothing he’s ever done hurts me in that way, because nothing he’s ever done resembles the abuse I’ve personally dealt with. But I do understand that that won’t be true for everyone. Some people are going to find his actions resonant. It’s understandable that they would then be further hurt by other commenters talking about how they like Mike or how they think certain things he’s done were ultimately beneficial to his targets.
But I think those folks should take a step back and ask themselves: “IS this other human being actually talking about me and what I’ve been through? Is it actually fair to treat them like they are?”
I think I can +1 to that last bit. I know Willis was struggling with how to write Mike in this setting, esp in a story that largely revolves around Joyce — she and Mike weren’t close and they were never going to be close, so a ton of the narrative roles he could’ve filled were just better done by Sarah or Dorothy… or Roz, depending!
But like I think the WAY of writing Mike was really effective, and in another comic centered on Ethan, or Ethan and Amber, I bet Mike would’ve worked better.
I think Mike worked beautifully as Walkys roommate. They didn’t intetact much in IW. But I think DOA made me really like their dynamic. Walky is so silly and laidback and unserious having a character like Mike worked great cuz Walky either took it on the chin, annoyed him back unintentionally or honestly needed someone to give him a harsh truth.
Pinky and the Brain. They’re pinky and the Brain.
I was describing the perception of a group of folks who seem to have largely vanished from the comment section and were all extremely vocal about hating Mike and hating all indications of him getting any character development. It would be weird and inaccurate of me to say “this group was so upset by Mike dying self-destructively that they left”, because that’s not what they would have been upset by; they were very much upset by the appearance of a “redemption through death” trope, and it’s just silly to argue with me over whether or not that perception has merit.
Personally I was annoyed by the redemption through death trope and I’ve long been a really harsh critic of Mike, but I was interested in seeing his character growth.
Though I honestly don’t know how Willis could write a character who’d had the kind of revelation Mike had about how he’d been treating Amber. “Oh, I’m using the same excuses as her abusive father” is really hard to just move on from.
I mean I assume he wouldn’t have “just” moved on, but maybe Willis didn’t have a plan for Mike going forward bc the intent by that point was for him to just die.
I’m not a big fan of redemption through death either, but usually bc it’s an easy way out for the character and a letdown on their future arc.
I mean, it’s totally fair to say the character growth was insufficient, or that you personally found it unconvincing, but to say there was no character growth seems… untrue?
This seemed like Mike’s best universe, for sure. A genuinely Socratic environment if you can truly say that the cruelty of your phrasing was in truth instructive.
When i was 12 one of the bullies who tormented me died in an accident with his scooter (totally his fault, by the way). I remember be very happy and never miss him for a moment. This is why I really can’t understand Walky. He’s missing a source of sufferance? What is him, a masochist?
Mike told people how he felt, and how he saw things. Tormenting people was just a bonus. Your bully enjoyed your suffering, also he died in an accident not fighting a man who’d kidnapped you. I imagine if he pushed you out of the way of a speeding car you’d feel differently.
I feel like that comes very close to a distinction without a difference, at least insofar as Mike’s behavior towards other people is concerned. Consistently being a dick to people and causing them emotional pain can be a form of bullying, and Mike did that constantly.
Now, it’s possible that the people who knew him well and who he had history with understood that it was coming from a certain place. Those people, perhaps, didn’t feel it as bullying, or if they did, took it as part of the “Mike Package,” so to speak. But that doesn’t make his general behavior acceptable. But Mike didn’t only act that way around his friends, he did it to everybody.
Also, “consistently doing the right thing . . . in the meanest possible way,” is itself not consistently doing the right thing. If there’s a non-mean way to do something, and you choose the mean way instead, I’d argue you’re not doing the right thing. Or at least, you’re not doing the “most-right” thing, which would be to do the same thing, but without being a dick about it.
The people that knew him best (Amber and Ethan) were not healthy about it. Amber avoided him. Even Ethan was only 50% sure they were friends. He was closest to them, I suspect, because they were messed up enough that they’d take his abuse and not just cut ties.
I don’t think bullying is the right term though. The right term is abuse.
Bullying is a very specific thing, let’s not conflate it with just generally being an asshole or any other forms of unpleasant or downright hostile behaviour.
I never said his behaviour is acceptable. It is perfectly possible to save lives and help people grow while doing it in entirely unacceptable ways.
While there may have been a non-mean way for someone else, Mike is not someone else, so for Mike the mean way was the only way. Mike had a lot of serious issues. Worse, he had no chance of ever growing out of them because he was incapable of accepting help or showing anything resembling emotional vulnerability. Mike was in a constant state of war with the entire world.
I agree with thejeff here, the right term is abuse. Mike was definitely abusive. Hurt people hurt people. (The second hurt is a verb.)
He consistently did the right thing, like making Walky cry so he could record it and play it back later to tear him down in front of other people. Or buying him those stupid pants to egg on relationship drama.
Mike could stab somebody in the thigh and you people would excuse it because while the person was in the hospital getting it treated, they got the last bag of Bugles from the vending machine.
No. He just didn’t. There was nothing right about the vast majority of stuff Mike pulled. He saw it by the end, when he heard Blaine use the same excuses for his abuse of Amber that Mike had been telling himself for years.
That is the thing with Mike, he was a bully, but not just a bully. His relationship to people, especially Amber and Ethan, was more complicated than that.
One of my bullies from middle school died by suicide when we were in college, and he had actually apologized to me a few months prior, but I hadn’t gotten to forgive him before he died, an it fucking gutted me, so while I wasn’t a fan of Mike, I do get some of Walky’s feelings.
Mike was mostly an asshole who occasionally did good things for people. He took pleasure in peoples’ emotional pain, and caused it constantly. That said, some people liked him in spite of (or because of) that. He had friends, and he was loyal to them, in his own twisted way. Mike was mostly an asshole, and Walky (and others) is still allowed to grieve for him.
I wonder if Walky knows he’s actually being so wonderful to Amber right now. His charm has been his dorkiness and now that he’s being emotionally vulnerable to her he’s ramping it up. They’re absolutely gonna bone in the next arc.
DoA works on making one person miserable if someone else thrives. I feel like Dorothy is currently in the “miserable” category and I think we’re about to see Booster was right when they said “you’re diametrically opposed garbage”
Walky, Mike dying was the best thing he ever did for you. In the month-and-a-half you knew him he had so thoroughly abused you that in the three months since his carcass started cooling you were jumping at shadows and convinced that this was actually just more of him being a piece of shit.
But abuse victims are shaped by their abusers, and the comic definitely won’t run long enough for any of Walky, Amber, or Ethan to realize how much better their lives are now that Mike’s gone.
1. I’m not sure if I like where this is going. Definitely feels like an…off way to have these two start talking again. I want garbage roof back together as much as anyone else but Walky literally JUST had a breakup. Meaning this is either a red herring or he’s gonna rush it and fuck it up.
2. The idea that having amber meet his parents instead of Lucy being where he fucked up seems to be missing the point. He fucked up when he didn’t defend Lucy. He fucked up because he’s not as into her as she was into him. The dumb fake date plan did the least harm to their relationship.
I’m not sure they were “together” so much as “conveniently adjacent.” But I think that Garbage Roof is about accepting each other, faults and all, which doesn’t require “together.”
The dumb fake date plan was the point at which they decided this could be solved by Wacky Schemes that would trick the Walkertons into liking Lucy without the need for Walky to actually stand up to them. I don’t think avoiding Wacky Schemes Time would have saved the relationship, but it might have led to an earlier mutual “Yeah, this isn’t going to work” rather than a protracted non-relationship that required Lucy to snap.
I just want to clarify/reiterated that it is not a crime, wrong, or otherwise inappropriate or someone’s “fault” to not be as into someone as they are into you.
In fact, I’d argue that if one were to drill down to a high enough level of precision, *no* two people are *exactly* as into each other as the other .
The greatest possible sin I see directly related to the disparity in “into-it-ism” between these two is that Lucy was increasingly (not constantly!) open and transparent about her level of attraction/interest in Walky, while Walky did not grow in his level of transparency to Lucy at anywhere near the same rate. Openness, transparency, and other forms of intimacy was best mirrored/reciprocated. And doing so is a *choice* one can make (although, granted some of us have traumas that make that choice far more costly than for others); feeling attraction/intensity/”into” someone is not.
Re: #2: Yeah, this is kinda what I keep thinking / saying, too. That Walky is viewing his breakups through the lens of “what MISTAKE did I make”, but I don’t think any of them really ended because he messed up. Even with Amber, I think he’s being too hard on himself if he thinks Halloween and that fight was a horrible mistake, or all on him.
It was a bad moment, but like, the real reason they broke up was that they were in incompatible places with their grief.
…and I guess on that note, I disagree with your first point? I think this was an important conversation to have, something that needed clearing from the metaphorical air before they could be a couple a again.
—but I also agree that it’s too soon for a solid start to a new relationship, so maybe I do agree? Ultimately???
I think he fucked up when he decided to never communicate what he was feeling, and just make jokes and go along with what Lucy imagined he what he meant. which started quite a bit before I love burger.
Imagine, these two get back together, Lucy and Dorothy find out (perhaps hilariously at the same time) and form the League of Walky’s Evil Exes in their parallel Joker eras
I liked Mike better in the other comic universe continuity, but I thought he was heading towards some decent character development in this comic before he died.
Willis: “you thought all character arcs were gonna get COMPLETED? you _fools_! *evil laughter* here, let’s spread Mike’s arc over all of his former friends, but invertedly, comment about THAT, will you”
In the end…there can be only one. Errr….I mean Mike. He always did know what was right. That doesn’t mean he did it, but he knew. He was honestly my favorite character in the other universe. Underneath all the doing of Mom’s for a nickel and intentionally being mean there was this truly decent guy.
This is making me insane, but. I don’t think y’all have gone through a SECOND daylights savings in the upper hemisphere? But I haven’t been able to read the updated webcomic at y’all’s midnight (2 am in my country) for days.
It’s currently your 00:14 / my 2:14 and I’m still here like. Where is it DDD: Is it just me, or has the clock drift (?) gone this bad?
Big Yikes, I hope they can fix the servers soon, then :’33 Thank you for answering! Def soothed me, I stay up late to read and akfdsljf yeah. Staying up until 3 every day is a bad idea.
@Dante Timezones are weird right? Half my coworkers are from across the globe so when it’s 6am for me? It’s the middle of the day for them. Of even the next day for my co-workers in the Philippines Wild stuff but Merry Christmas or Happy Fesitivus to you and yours. Whatever it may be.
Yeah, timezones are really, really weird. I’m from Chile and I have friends in Europe who’re literally six hours away from me half of the year. I think I’m more used to y’all having swapped seasons than they’re, though – They still get weirded out by my summer Festivus ;3 Thank you for your kind greetings. I hope you and yours have a great end of the year, too!
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alternately, he would’ve TOTES let you do it, then laughed in your face when you fucked up
(I miss him)
(Merry Crimbus)
Apropos of nothing Mike related, and because I **need** to share somewhere, Bembo is really putting the LOL in Lolth.
Here’s a nickel
, for your mom.
It’s more likely he would have encouraged the scheme to make Walky learn the painful lesson of “you shouldn’t enable your parents’ biases by throwing your partner under the bus” and make Lucy learn the painful lesson of “if your man can’t confront his parents’ racism for you, he ain’t worth it”
Mike liked being good, but only as long as it was cruel good
Ultimate chaotic good. Net good, by any horrible means.
Depending on how much Mike actually likes you, he won’t stop you from doing the stupid thing but it’ll change how obvious he makes it that the thing you’re doing is stupid.
I feel like he would have stopped it, but only because Amber was the one getting dragged into it. If Walky was involving literally anybody else he probably would have made a few snide comments and then sat back to watch the fireworks.
Nah, when you get down to what he actually did with his meanness, Mike was generally one of the nicest and most helpful characters in DOA
Which is maybe saying more about the other characters and how much they think about their actions, but still
Are we talking about the time he repeatedly punched someone for money, the time he convinced his best friend to go back in the closet, then mocked him for it, or the time he decided to mess with said best friend’s head in order to mess up someone else’s head even worse?
Some of what Mike did led to people having realisations and becoming better. I have yet to be convinced that that was a goal he ever had, and even if it was, it clearly wasn’t a goal he always had.
I mean, both of those count I think? Him punching Joe is tricky but it was the first step towards Joe learning to treat women with even a tiny bit of respect
Also he didn’t really want Ethan to go back in the closet; Ethan kind of read his sarcasm wrong. But after that, Mike realized that Ethan needed to come out on his own and not be outed again, and helped him get to that point
Told you it was dumb, but in such a way that you’re go ahead and do it anyway, so he’d have more of a knife to twist later.
Walky needs a Mike on each shoulder, angel Mike to tell him his plans are dumb meanly, and a devil Mike to tell him his plans were dumb after they’ve blown up.
Garbage roof ship rises like a barge in New Jersey
Garbage Skow Lives!
Garbage Skow is only mostly dead.
Like the Mary Ellen Carter rise again
Mike is my favorite
I got to tell this to Willis in person once, this was like a year before the death reveal
I wonder if he knew
iiiiii kneeewwwwwww
You probably knew a decade before you first drew him. Which must have been really confusing, knowing you were going to kill off a character you hadn’t created yet, in a story you had no idea you’d write, in a format you had no clue you’d do.
I’m glad that you did, and I want you to know that it was not a disappointment in the slightest to see how the story went with him!
Mine too. Mike was the best at being the worst in the best way.
Yeah I loved that angry blonde weirdo.
I mean, it happened before… (SPOILERS)
Well that’s… certainly A Christmas Strip.
As you earthlings say,
Damn You Willis!
That was exactly my reaction
happy freeza day 8D;
His father was not a very Wise King, that’s for sure! XD
Eh, maybe. Mike could go a lot of ways with that.
Yeah, I could see Mike making one comment about what a shit plan it was and then holding back until it came crashing down so he could do some form of “Told you so.”
And I could see him dissuading Walky from following through with it because he wouldn’t want Amber to get dragged into that mess (unless he was doing the dragging).
I didn’t get a chance to comment this yesterday due to Christmas Eve plans but man, Linda excusing Jennifer’s dui is already pretty crummy, both because of how Sal’s mistakes are still framed as being forever and always, yet Jennifer’s are cause she’s young, but we also gotta remember that Alice was in that car wreck too! But you know… just a mistake that could have been EXTREMELY DEADLY…
…committed by a rich white person (whole, half, passing or other). Ergo, a learning experience.
a protective layer of $20 bills shielded her from consequences
Billie checks all the boxes in Linda’s head so she’s fine to do whatever she wants. It’s such a well observed method of having a “good” parent who is exceptionally blind to their own faults.
It’s a little more understandable, if Linda only thinks of it as a one-time after Prom mistake by an otherwise good upstanding girl because Jennifer hid her pattern of partying, alcoholism and depression, while she knows more of Sal and sees it as a pattern of bad behavior.
A little more.
Getting way too drug or high is one thing, making the decision to drive afterwards is a move out of insane levels of selfishness, back when I did drink I would get blackout drunk all the time, never once did I drive with even a little alcohol in me.
Yeah him dying out of nowhere really did throw some shit out of wack… like for example a severe lack of “Your mom” jokes.
Merry Christmas by the way.
Which sucks, because we’ve since been repeatedly exposed to both Linda and Carol, two moms who really deserve to be the subject of Your Mom jokes, but there are none to be had.
Aaaand there it is.
This has been a long time coming, Walky. Get it all out in the open.
Allowing himself to feel lost instead of hiding behind his jokes?
Yeeess, nice to see Walky almost apologize to Amber here by having a heart-felt talk about their dead friend. That’s all Amber ever wanted from him.
Oh man, I’d totally forgotten that bit of context, thanks!
I’m enjoying her faint smile.
Amber’s smile is my Merry Christmas present.
maybe he and amber can have a group therapy session with booster.
or he’ll end up hooking up with her again and dorothy finding out and reacting lol
Both can happen!
Booster needs Lucy Van Pelt’s “Psychological Help ¢5” booth.
i was about to say that walky should direct his anger at blaine and not mike since its not mike was responsible for his own death and then i remembered oh right blaines dead too. rip loser
and by “anger” i mean “deflective jokey anger for the sake of a punchline”
But Walky didn’t want Blaine to be there forever, so him dying doesn’t feel like a loss. Without loss, there is no anger over the loss.
The mere existence of loved ones means they made the implicit promise to continue existing, which is why a death can make you angry at someone for dying, even though you know that isn’t rational. We’re more than just rational beings.
It’s more complex with Mike, because he certainly didn’t want Mike there forever. Or at all really.
He wanted Mike to fuck off, but also to always be there to be told to fuck off.
So what are the odds Walky interpreted the earlier discussion with Lucy as a break up, decides to pursue Amber (or Dorothy, or someone else) only to later learn that Lucy did not interpret the discussion as a break up
Low.
Low-eee-oh, ee-ooooh-oh
It was definitely a break up. I’d worry for Lucy’s sanity a bit if she didn’t see saying ‘fuck you” to your partner in that context as a break up. I’d worry for Walky too.
She only said that she would be “brave enough” and said that they would see each other tomorrow, this can create different interpretations:
or Lucy really doesn’t want anything to do with Walky anymore or
A “new Lucy” will be presented who will not allow herself to be trampled on and this option is easily the most viable because a “determination” was seen in her eyes…of course this will not be good at all.
Yandere Lucy, full flavor.
(I have referred to her as Yandere-light before).
could be
Sure seemed like a breakup to me. (and not a Ross & Rachel “we were on a break” breakup)
Look even he’s not that tasteless or atleast not tasteless enough to do that a second time.
Anyway I need like a time skip of a week or two into spring before I see Walky pursue another romantic pursuit. Which is probably going to come any time now since we’ve already spent a considerate amount of time in January…they got what another week left comic in comic time?
I feel like there’s still stuff we could see first. We’d be skipping completely over Joe and Joyce in their honeymoon period of just started dating, Sal and Danny too for that matter. Dorothy’s also just kind of hanging in this depression that I’d like to see resolve instead of hanging around for potential months. A skip soon could be possible though. No one else is really deep into huge stuff now that Walky and Lucy is over. They were kind of carrying the main drama as long as the Walkertons also leave soon.
It would be unhealthy for Walky to boomerang right back to an ex-girlfriend. But typical, since he is like one of those widowers who just likes being married and replaces their wife immediately like hiring a replacement housekeeper.
Ok. After seeing other comments, let me clarify my take.
I do not see what happened as a break up.
Not to say they won’t break up, but that I don’t see Lucy not clearly stating it, and waiting to tomorrow is supposed to give her time to think about if she’ll break up with him.
That said, when I said chances are low, I was specifically talking about Walky pursuing anyone.
I see people acting like Walky wants to be in a relationship.
That’s not the case.
Walky didn’t PURSUE Amber when he and Dorothy broke up.
He never planned to go after her and there was never any indication that they were feeling each other before it happened (unless you count the toy throwing, which I do, but only as confirmation bias in hindsight).
Amber just made the hurt go away some, the second day of pain at that, as the first day was spent drunk with Jason.
Hell, he never pursued Dorothy.
She knew he liked her, because he couldn’t help making it obvious, but she came to him.
If Walky was really the type to just want to be in a relationship all the time, he wouldn’t have been chilling during the time skip (which we can assume since there was no mention of any time skip love interest and it would be weird for there not to be unless it was a secret, which would be weirder), and he would have probably tried harder in the relationship with Lucy.
As for being hurt enough to somehow find someone to make him feel better, all we’ve seen is Walky be upset that he hurt Lucy, not that he himself is hurt.
So Walky pursuing anyone is low because pursuing someone isn’t his deal in the first place, he’s perfectly fine not being in a relationship, and he’s not hurt enough to need someone to make the pain go away and it somehow blossom into a rebound.
Could he somehow end up messing with Amber or Dorothy (couldn’t be anyone else because there’s no one else he’s close to nor even expressed attraction to)?
Sure, all kinds of mess could happen today in the strip, but it wouldn’t be his plan to do so.
I could never read Mike. For me he alternates between asshole with a good heart, and goodhole with an ass… wait.
Maybe a heart-hole with a good ass?
Ethan would probably co-sign that ZING
Jerking it from the grave
I feel guilty for finding this so funny. Also, there is a joke about headstones in there somewhere, but I’m afraid to look too hard for it.
hard as GRANITE
–Dave, and carved like an angel
More chemistry in 2 sentences than he had with Lucy ever. Just saiyan.
Amen
Mike is a very divisive character in a webcomic that has a number of them, but I really love the direction this is going right now, with Walky really only vocalizing the Mike grief for basically the first time here. I am sure Amber’s reaction in panel 2 was some of us reading this.
This is probably a good growth sign for Walky.
It is, it is true that Mike liked to annoy everyone equally, but it is very possible that this harsh honesty was what really helped Walky to settle down,… Would it have to be a new character who is in charge of being “honest” with him?
He’s started being honest with himself, the ultimate character growth.
Weird how Mike’s “harsh honesty” often involved lying.
The best truths I’ve ever heard were lies
Booster: “NOT IT”
(Following the alt text) : This message brought to you by the Witness Protection Program, for no stated reason.
Don’t give me hope
Ok no rerolling that avatar
Hey hey, you got the best gravatar. Congrats lol
Second best.
Okay, I admit it, best.
The existence of Charlie really undermines the “Booster is Mike” theories.
Hey, Charlie is just Mike in a wig. I mean, sure, it keeps him busy hopping between Charlie and Booster and Jennifer identities, but what else does he have to do?
Oops! All Mikes!
I know this was contradicted during the Halloween flashback but there is definitely still a part of me that holds on to hope for the Witness Protection Theory.
Mike being alive in the witness protection program is frankly less likely than the Head Alien showing up in person
The character doesn’t fit the current premise of the strip, but I miss (non-TV) Head Alien.
Is THIS how they get back together?
Oh please, not again.
They could both do worse.
I believe that at some point Joyce is supposed to fall for Walky and they get married (from Joyce and Walky comic posted prior to DoA)
Ugly crying
happy mike appreciation day
No, Michaelmas is a different day.
yeah, today’s actually Newtonmas
I was not expecting that to be a real thing. Is is blasphemous for me to want Mike’s day to be Nickelmas?
headcanon: _accepted_
Alt-text beat me to the “Mike died for your sins” joke but Merry Christmas anyway! I don’t really have an alternative present planned
…uh, here’s a recently-discovered image of the cut Christmas level from Sonic 2 i guess? for the five people who care about this who somehow haven’t seen it yet
and I think Amber gets that this is Walky finally starting to really admit to and process his grief. A conversation long overdue.
Unf… Feelings! Walky feelings. Mike feelings! Amber feelings!
Merry Christmas.
Just imagine Mike is offscreen wearing a “Walky Delenda Est” jumper he knitted especially for the occasion at all times.
delendus est
Carthage is a she, Mike is a he
aaaand Walky, as the subject, is also a he
–Dave, the Queen is not a subject
Is this going to be Amber and Walky start dating again because Walky admits that he misses Mike? And maybe admits to being an asshole when they were grieving for Mike?
If so I am once again all aboard the garbage skow.
MERRY MIKEMAS, EVERYONE!
Thank you! And with you, as well!
I can’t believe the Mike-Jesus allegory is the consistent thing between dumbing verse and walkyverse.
I can!
I don’t think that dying is the jerkiest thing Mike could have done.
I think the jerkiest thing he could have done is salting and dehydrating lean cuts of meat.
(Because my brain is a bit OCD about noticing potential puns everywhere, that’s why.)
But I thought the jerkiest thing Mike could have done would be firepit cooking with Jamaican allspice and peppers!
Maybe the jerkiest thing he could have done would be serving sodas?
High acceleration over short time.
Definitely one way to raise the barbell.
high deceleration over a short time.
ah, but that’s the thing, see – technically there’s no such thing as deceleration, just different vectors.
(that said, yes, Mike personally experienced quite a bit of Δv at the bottom.)
It ain’t the fall that kills ya. It’s that sudden stop.
A lot of people in the comments are going “now that Walky is properly apologizing for the bullshit that got Amber to break up with him, they’re going to get back together” but I don’t think relationships are that simple. It’s too late for an apology to fix things; this is just some much needed processing and closure for both of them.
First, it’s good to see that Walky really understood that he was an idiot, although I feel like I’m missing other details, well, that last bit is overthinking on my part.
The truth is…a return of this pair does not convince me, in addition to the fact that their relationship was born in a somewhat desperate way to let off steam in my opinion. BUT, everyone has their favorite ships and I am not going to be hypocritical, the truth is I want him to return to Dorothy, but she is in a very serious depressive circle that would mean that a character who is not close to characters close to her could help and many of the characters realize that she needed real help, I know that many want the savior to be Joyce, but the truth is that I feel that it would not be beneficial for her to do that, not to mention that after I noticed that she was talking with Jacob, she just said “it’s okay, I’ll allow it”, it’s obvious that she said it for Sarah, but she already showed a “possessive” side when Dorothy and Walky were dating, but because of that “concern” it could be an easily disguised obsession her
While I’d like them back together, it’s probably still too soon after his break up with Lucy and I both read and welcome this as Walky finally processing his grief and realizing how he fucked up with Amber by not recognizing she needed to deal with it another way.
Maybe at some point in the future they can get back together but this is very good growth for Walky.
They were friends with benefits at most, I think. Seeing them become friends again, with or without benefits, is good though.
Amber’s been missing Mike alright, no more apparitions of him ever since.
I, however, miss Amber’s graphic fanfics. Merry Christmas.
Love that Walky says he wished someone was jerkishly brutally honest with him about the fake girlfriend, because Lucy got exactly that from Sarah and reminded her of the Dana situation to call her out. The parallels are *mwah*.
IMO this reflects better on Walky, since I’d call admitting something is right despite the person saying it being an asshole about it a pretty awesome demonstration of objectivity and maturity.
So… all this time he was convinced that he “liked Lucy” just to look for something that could escape those thoughts of losing Mike?
We celebrate Mikemas on this day.
(or is it Michaelmas? I’m unsure.)
He died for our sins.
Don’t say that to Amber, she might say “mine.”
Michaelmas is 29 September. One of the old quarter days, and traditional day for annual tenancies to start and end.
What Agemegos said, also celebrated 11/9 by the Greek Orthodox.
Whatever dude I’m still Team Danny, Mike doing something selfless at the very end of his life did not magically erase all the times he was an asshole to absolutely everyone and I don’t buy for a second that he would have tried to stop Walky from sabotaging his relationship with Lucy when sabotaging relationships (or twisting the knife when they fell apart) was the guy’s favorite pastime ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
All of Mike’s acts of assholeness were selfless. Being an asshole was Mike’s love language.
That’s not how that works. You don’t get to be genuinely mean to other people and excuse it by saying “that’s how I show affection.” Kids learn that in grade school when they find out that they can’t tease their crush as a way of secretly saying they like them.
I don’t mean like teasing and banter among friends (although if your friend says they don’t like it when you tease them, and you don’t stop, you’re a bad friend). Mike was genuinely cruel to people in ways that clearly caused them emotional pain. The fact that he was “doing it from a place of love” doesn’t excuse that.
Mike sucks and the comic has been both better and worse since he died. Better because he was such a concentrated piece of shit that it’s like Melkor’s defeat at the end of the First Age. There’s no towering obelisk of shittiness that actively looks to hurt everyone around it for the crime of existing in the same space.
The comic’s worse because like Melkor’s defeat at the end of the First Age, his evil has spread out into the land and infected different members of the cast, with Sarah taking up his mantle most directly.
… you have my AXE
I miss Mike too
Me too!
He also died when his charecter was most interesting.
Him being jealous about Ethan was quite something
Yeah, won’t lie, I wanted to see where it was going, and I’ll always be a little worried that Willis killed Mike off at least partly bc they were worried about the audience’s reception to anything else. Which would be both a waste and a shame, since the folks who would’ve gotten out the torches and pitch forks over Mike completing his character arc… mostly just stopped commenting when he fell after trying to tackle Blane, because the mere act of Mike possibly dying heroically was already over the line for them.
I hope Mike’s death was a true “no regrets” moment for Willis and that they enjoyed the one last epic troll of Mike cheating everyone who knew him both in-universe and out- of a true conclusion to his character arc. I kinda suspect that in ten years, Mike’s death will at least be something they’d like to revisit in a future project? The same way they were creatively satisfied by Ruth and Dina’s Walkyverse deaths, but later came to regret them.
I’m always interested in seeing the different reactions to Mike. Having read these comics from the early days and seen the different iterations of him (and his relationships (“and you were gone in a flash of blinding light…”)) definitely changes how I interpreted the overall character and his potential for growth, his motivations, etc. in this comic.
I’d love to have a little statistic next to every comment about Mike that shows how many of the comics they’re read and in what order!
This is an interesting point. I’ve only ever read Dumbing of Age and I always found Mike flatly unlikable (although I try not to bring it up because it seems kinda rude). I’m like Danny, constantly wondering wtf people see in this guy (although, unlike Danny, I do understand people can see things very differently).
Also let me take this moment to say Danny was more or less right? In-universe, his position was the correct one, even if he picked a terrible way of saying it, a terrible time TO say it, and a terrible person to say it TO.
Even if you think the absolute worst of Mike — that he was an abuser, full-stop — Danny’s approach was a tactically unsound way of talking to an abuse victim about their abuser. It was kinda Doomed.
Shortpacked!, then Dumbing of Age through like 2016, then attempts to go chronologically through Roomies!, which were largely unsuccessful for a long time. I’d get a little ways in and then stop. I’ve read all of it now, though I definitely skimmed some of the Head Alien machinations.
So yeah, my first experience of Mike was in Shortpacked, and I liked his relationship with Amber, and I thought it was neat to get to see an AU where he was more into Ethan instead.
But more than just that? I’ve been increasingly alternately exhausted and really upset by the rise of, like. Anti-intellecualism, pro-Hays Code sentiments from people decades too young for them, and I don’t understand how the very real anti-trans legislation being enacted with that same “think of the children!!!” rationale isn’t giving more of these folks more pause.
Mike is a fictional character. He’s a cartoon. Liking him doesn’t make you a bad, unsafe person and disliking him doesn’t make you a good, safe person. Yes, there’s something to be said with what he’s historically “gotten away with” when compared with other characters who aren’t cis white men; absolutely that is worth some examination.
But the anti-Mike squad ’round these parts has literally both called me an abuse apologist and told me that if I find that upsetting, I should stop defending people who like him, soooooo.
My favorite fictional characters are usually “the jerk” so I have this argument a lot.
Like, I would not want to be friends with an actual Mike, but I like stories about all kinds of things I wouldn’t want to experience myself…!
And yeah, admittedly I am a fan of the tsundere / jerk with a heart of gold character type. Hence my fondness for Sarah, heh.
The problem with liking Mike is there has long been a element of the fandom that doesn’t just like him as a character, but actually thinks he was a good person. An “asshole sage”, as someone put it. That every cruel thing he did was justified because it was to teach the other characters that he was trying to help. When it failed, it was only because they misunderstood or rejected his message.
The frustration with that sometimes spills over onto those who just like him as a character.
It’s like we still see with Joe, people show up to proclaim that there was never anything wrong with how early Joe behaved, which basically trivializes his whole growth arc.
I agree that that’s annoying, but like. Even that segment doesn’t deserve to be treated like they’re okay with or approving of real-life abuse.
Also I feel like I don’t see nearly as much splash back with Joe fans, where the reasonable ones get assumed to be unreasonable and awful? It’d be nice if reasonable Mike fans didn’t have to also worry about being Assumed Terrible.
The thing is, when you’ve got people pointing at abuse and going “Yeah, that’s a good thing he’s doing”, you’ve really got to wonder how they’d react in real life.
Most often the problem in real life is also not recognizing the abuse as abuse
…….I’ve rewritten my reply to this a bunch of times.
First: it’s… a choice on your part to respond to this thread, where I have repeatedly complained about how awful it feels to be accused of “supporting” real-life abuse just for defending folks who like Mike……… by telling me, in brief, “but gee we have to wonder if you’d support real-life abuse!”
Like. That’s kind of a crappy thing to do to a real person.
I wonder if disclosing that I’m an abuse survivor in my first comment on the matter would have made you think twice? Because it definitely didn’t stop the anti-Mike squad the last time I talked about this.
Second: are you sure about that comparison.
Are you sure that “most often” the problem in real life is that abuse happens in front of witnesses and then those witnesses get into a lengthy debate about whether or not the abuse was part of a Machiavellian plan to facilitate the victim’s character growth?
Are you sure that you actually have “people pointing at abuse” and calling it a good thing? Because I’m pretty sure the actual conversations in this comment section are debates about the actions of a cartoon character that even 99% of his fans will describe as an asshole.
Like. That’s not abuse. It may or may not be a fictional portrayal of abuse, but it is not a real person being really harmed, and it is in fact kind of a stretch to assume that someone’s willingness to debate the narrative utility of a cartoon character’s schemes is in any way reflective of how they would react to real-life abuse.
I am racking my brain and all I’ve got here in terms of similarities is the debate around corporal punishment, which is a very specific subset of abuse, and the argument there is almost always a combination of “I was spanked and I turned out fine” and “but no other type of discipline works with some kids, if they’re not spanked they’ll end up in prison”.
There’s still a world of difference between thinking Mike’s an Asshole Sage and having any specific opinion on corporeal punishment, but at least you won’t be as far out in left field.
(Also I’d bet there are pro-corporal people who hate Mike, too, because it’s still a shaky analogy. But it’s at least more accurate than “Mike is a typical abuser and liking him or defending him is the same thing as overlooking or defending RL abuse”.)
Finally: I know that a lot of the anti-Mike people are in pain.
I’ve said before, there’s a lot of Realness in this comic.
I fully understand being… well, triggered by Mike. Nothing he’s ever done hurts me in that way, because nothing he’s ever done resembles the abuse I’ve personally dealt with. But I do understand that that won’t be true for everyone. Some people are going to find his actions resonant. It’s understandable that they would then be further hurt by other commenters talking about how they like Mike or how they think certain things he’s done were ultimately beneficial to his targets.
But I think those folks should take a step back and ask themselves: “IS this other human being actually talking about me and what I’ve been through? Is it actually fair to treat them like they are?”
Love Mike. Read DOA first. Then Shortpacked. Then roomies-its Walky. The its Walky interpretation is my least favorite and dumbverse is my favorite.
I think I can +1 to that last bit. I know Willis was struggling with how to write Mike in this setting, esp in a story that largely revolves around Joyce — she and Mike weren’t close and they were never going to be close, so a ton of the narrative roles he could’ve filled were just better done by Sarah or Dorothy… or Roz, depending!
But like I think the WAY of writing Mike was really effective, and in another comic centered on Ethan, or Ethan and Amber, I bet Mike would’ve worked better.
I think Mike worked beautifully as Walkys roommate. They didn’t intetact much in IW. But I think DOA made me really like their dynamic. Walky is so silly and laidback and unserious having a character like Mike worked great cuz Walky either took it on the chin, annoyed him back unintentionally or honestly needed someone to give him a harsh truth.
Pinky and the Brain. They’re pinky and the Brain.
Ffff that is a great analogy.
I read release order. I didn’t start reading DOA until about 3 months straight of consuming Willisverse content
he jumped off a building because he was self-destructive, not “heroically”.
I was describing the perception of a group of folks who seem to have largely vanished from the comment section and were all extremely vocal about hating Mike and hating all indications of him getting any character development. It would be weird and inaccurate of me to say “this group was so upset by Mike dying self-destructively that they left”, because that’s not what they would have been upset by; they were very much upset by the appearance of a “redemption through death” trope, and it’s just silly to argue with me over whether or not that perception has merit.
Personally I was annoyed by the redemption through death trope and I’ve long been a really harsh critic of Mike, but I was interested in seeing his character growth.
Though I honestly don’t know how Willis could write a character who’d had the kind of revelation Mike had about how he’d been treating Amber. “Oh, I’m using the same excuses as her abusive father” is really hard to just move on from.
I mean I assume he wouldn’t have “just” moved on, but maybe Willis didn’t have a plan for Mike going forward bc the intent by that point was for him to just die.
I’m not a big fan of redemption through death either, but usually bc it’s an easy way out for the character and a letdown on their future arc.
Mike was a bully. There was no character growth, or any help towards Walky, he was just a bully…
You’re absolutely right, a bully with a heart of gold! Always looking out for the little guy.
i mean that’s prolly why he was chosen to be killed off
I mean, it’s totally fair to say the character growth was insufficient, or that you personally found it unconvincing, but to say there was no character growth seems… untrue?
Well-played, hovertext—& a Merry Damn-You-Willis to all!!
Merry Christmas ya filthy animals.
I hope everyone left shoes, Twinkies, and ammo in their ducts for John McClane last night!
This seemed like Mike’s best universe, for sure. A genuinely Socratic environment if you can truly say that the cruelty of your phrasing was in truth instructive.
When i was 12 one of the bullies who tormented me died in an accident with his scooter (totally his fault, by the way). I remember be very happy and never miss him for a moment. This is why I really can’t understand Walky. He’s missing a source of sufferance? What is him, a masochist?
tbh i still miss somebody who tormented me tirelessly when i was younger. it’s a weird feeling.
Mike told people how he felt, and how he saw things. Tormenting people was just a bonus. Your bully enjoyed your suffering, also he died in an accident not fighting a man who’d kidnapped you. I imagine if he pushed you out of the way of a speeding car you’d feel differently.
Mike is not a bully. An asshole, definitely, but not a bully. He consistently did the right thing, even though he did it in the meanest possible way.
I feel like that comes very close to a distinction without a difference, at least insofar as Mike’s behavior towards other people is concerned. Consistently being a dick to people and causing them emotional pain can be a form of bullying, and Mike did that constantly.
Now, it’s possible that the people who knew him well and who he had history with understood that it was coming from a certain place. Those people, perhaps, didn’t feel it as bullying, or if they did, took it as part of the “Mike Package,” so to speak. But that doesn’t make his general behavior acceptable. But Mike didn’t only act that way around his friends, he did it to everybody.
Also, “consistently doing the right thing . . . in the meanest possible way,” is itself not consistently doing the right thing. If there’s a non-mean way to do something, and you choose the mean way instead, I’d argue you’re not doing the right thing. Or at least, you’re not doing the “most-right” thing, which would be to do the same thing, but without being a dick about it.
The people that knew him best (Amber and Ethan) were not healthy about it. Amber avoided him. Even Ethan was only 50% sure they were friends. He was closest to them, I suspect, because they were messed up enough that they’d take his abuse and not just cut ties.
I don’t think bullying is the right term though. The right term is abuse.
Bullying is a very specific thing, let’s not conflate it with just generally being an asshole or any other forms of unpleasant or downright hostile behaviour.
I never said his behaviour is acceptable. It is perfectly possible to save lives and help people grow while doing it in entirely unacceptable ways.
While there may have been a non-mean way for someone else, Mike is not someone else, so for Mike the mean way was the only way. Mike had a lot of serious issues. Worse, he had no chance of ever growing out of them because he was incapable of accepting help or showing anything resembling emotional vulnerability. Mike was in a constant state of war with the entire world.
I agree with thejeff here, the right term is abuse. Mike was definitely abusive. Hurt people hurt people. (The second hurt is a verb.)
There is no way in hell “You’re turning into Blaine,” was the “right thing” for Amber.
He consistently did the right thing, like making Walky cry so he could record it and play it back later to tear him down in front of other people. Or buying him those stupid pants to egg on relationship drama.
Mike could stab somebody in the thigh and you people would excuse it because while the person was in the hospital getting it treated, they got the last bag of Bugles from the vending machine.
No. He just didn’t. There was nothing right about the vast majority of stuff Mike pulled. He saw it by the end, when he heard Blaine use the same excuses for his abuse of Amber that Mike had been telling himself for years.
That is the thing with Mike, he was a bully, but not just a bully. His relationship to people, especially Amber and Ethan, was more complicated than that.
Stockholm syndrome?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/stockholm-syndrome-meaning-bank-robbery-b2399531.html
Stockholm Syndrome is not a real thing
orz sorry this was meant to be a kinda “FYI” thing and instead it looks like I’m just kinda ragging on you for a minor phrasing issue.
I’m not; I think it’s genuinely interesting, what happened with Stockholm Syndrome.
One of my bullies from middle school died by suicide when we were in college, and he had actually apologized to me a few months prior, but I hadn’t gotten to forgive him before he died, an it fucking gutted me, so while I wasn’t a fan of Mike, I do get some of Walky’s feelings.
Mike was mostly an asshole who occasionally did good things for people. He took pleasure in peoples’ emotional pain, and caused it constantly. That said, some people liked him in spite of (or because of) that. He had friends, and he was loyal to them, in his own twisted way. Mike was mostly an asshole, and Walky (and others) is still allowed to grieve for him.
I wonder if Walky knows he’s actually being so wonderful to Amber right now. His charm has been his dorkiness and now that he’s being emotionally vulnerable to her he’s ramping it up. They’re absolutely gonna bone in the next arc.
Goodness I hope. But I cant get my hopes up too high.
DoA works on making one person miserable if someone else thrives. I feel like Dorothy is currently in the “miserable” category and I think we’re about to see Booster was right when they said “you’re diametrically opposed garbage”
You guys are the worst at eulogies
RE: alt-text,
Mike would’ve been like “At least I wasn’t a god in human form who sacrificed himself to himself.”
Don’t think I didn’t notice that Patreon preview, you sick fuck.
Sometimes clothed cheesecake can be better than naked.
It’s degenerate and sinful, and I’m debating the $10 very heavily.
…
Same.
Perhaps ‘enrobed’ is the word you want.
“Arrayed” is also an option, apparently
Ha-ha. Classic Mike.
Walky, Mike dying was the best thing he ever did for you. In the month-and-a-half you knew him he had so thoroughly abused you that in the three months since his carcass started cooling you were jumping at shadows and convinced that this was actually just more of him being a piece of shit.
But abuse victims are shaped by their abusers, and the comic definitely won’t run long enough for any of Walky, Amber, or Ethan to realize how much better their lives are now that Mike’s gone.
1. I’m not sure if I like where this is going. Definitely feels like an…off way to have these two start talking again. I want garbage roof back together as much as anyone else but Walky literally JUST had a breakup. Meaning this is either a red herring or he’s gonna rush it and fuck it up.
2. The idea that having amber meet his parents instead of Lucy being where he fucked up seems to be missing the point. He fucked up when he didn’t defend Lucy. He fucked up because he’s not as into her as she was into him. The dumb fake date plan did the least harm to their relationship.
I don’t see it as the beginning of a romance. I see it as a friend seeking out a friend to share his grief.
Probably.
But you see…Iwant them to get back together
I’m not sure they were “together” so much as “conveniently adjacent.” But I think that Garbage Roof is about accepting each other, faults and all, which doesn’t require “together.”
The dumb fake date plan was the point at which they decided this could be solved by Wacky Schemes that would trick the Walkertons into liking Lucy without the need for Walky to actually stand up to them. I don’t think avoiding Wacky Schemes Time would have saved the relationship, but it might have led to an earlier mutual “Yeah, this isn’t going to work” rather than a protracted non-relationship that required Lucy to snap.
I just want to clarify/reiterated that it is not a crime, wrong, or otherwise inappropriate or someone’s “fault” to not be as into someone as they are into you.
In fact, I’d argue that if one were to drill down to a high enough level of precision, *no* two people are *exactly* as into each other as the other .
The greatest possible sin I see directly related to the disparity in “into-it-ism” between these two is that Lucy was increasingly (not constantly!) open and transparent about her level of attraction/interest in Walky, while Walky did not grow in his level of transparency to Lucy at anywhere near the same rate. Openness, transparency, and other forms of intimacy was best mirrored/reciprocated. And doing so is a *choice* one can make (although, granted some of us have traumas that make that choice far more costly than for others); feeling attraction/intensity/”into” someone is not.
Re: #2: Yeah, this is kinda what I keep thinking / saying, too. That Walky is viewing his breakups through the lens of “what MISTAKE did I make”, but I don’t think any of them really ended because he messed up. Even with Amber, I think he’s being too hard on himself if he thinks Halloween and that fight was a horrible mistake, or all on him.
It was a bad moment, but like, the real reason they broke up was that they were in incompatible places with their grief.
…and I guess on that note, I disagree with your first point? I think this was an important conversation to have, something that needed clearing from the metaphorical air before they could be a couple a again.
—but I also agree that it’s too soon for a solid start to a new relationship, so maybe I do agree? Ultimately???
They’ve already started talking again? Like borrowing her tech/pj time and the parents shenanigans?
I think he fucked up when he decided to never communicate what he was feeling, and just make jokes and go along with what Lucy imagined he what he meant. which started quite a bit before I love burger.
Now kiss
Imagine, these two get back together, Lucy and Dorothy find out (perhaps hilariously at the same time) and form the League of Walky’s Evil Exes in their parallel Joker eras
Hmm, it seems the only good Mike comic is a dead Mike comic?
merry mikemas everyone
I thought Walky was our Savior?
I’m really happy to see Walky addressing his feelings about Mike. This is a good Christmas present.
I liked Mike better in the other comic universe continuity, but I thought he was heading towards some decent character development in this comic before he died.
I just want a panel of Walky and Amber playing video games and eating nachitos inserted into completely unrelated strips once in a while.
can it be a poster on someone else’s dormroom wall
–Dave, maybe Carla’s, inexplicably
Alexa, play Red Water by Type O Negative
Willis: “you thought all character arcs were gonna get COMPLETED? you _fools_! *evil laughter* here, let’s spread Mike’s arc over all of his former friends, but invertedly, comment about THAT, will you”
*confused commenter noises*
–Dave, and a happy Nickel(Ma’s) to all!
Hoping this won’t be the last comment of the day because I can’t handle that responsibility, but…
This is really sweet and melancholy and a perfect Christmas strip.
I too, miss Mike.
In the end…there can be only one. Errr….I mean Mike. He always did know what was right. That doesn’t mean he did it, but he knew. He was honestly my favorite character in the other universe. Underneath all the doing of Mom’s for a nickel and intentionally being mean there was this truly decent guy.
Mikemas is a time to be jolly fa lalalalalla la a lal alla la
This is making me insane, but. I don’t think y’all have gone through a SECOND daylights savings in the upper hemisphere? But I haven’t been able to read the updated webcomic at y’all’s midnight (2 am in my country) for days.
It’s currently your 00:14 / my 2:14 and I’m still here like. Where is it DDD: Is it just me, or has the clock drift (?) gone this bad?
No it’s super bad. It is 12:17 as I’m typing this.
Big Yikes, I hope they can fix the servers soon, then :’33 Thank you for answering! Def soothed me, I stay up late to read and akfdsljf yeah. Staying up until 3 every day is a bad idea.
@Dante Timezones are weird right?
Half my coworkers are from across the globe so when it’s 6am for me? It’s the middle of the day for them. Of even the next day for my co-workers in the Philippines Wild stuff but Merry Christmas or Happy Fesitivus to you and yours. Whatever it may be.
sgmsd I JUST SAW THIS, I’m so sorry!!! ;33;
Yeah, timezones are really, really weird. I’m from Chile and I have friends in Europe who’re literally six hours away from me half of the year. I think I’m more used to y’all having swapped seasons than they’re, though – They still get weirded out by my summer Festivus ;3 Thank you for your kind greetings. I hope you and yours have a great end of the year, too!