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*plays “Filthy/Gorgeous by Scissor Sisters on hacked muzak*
now imagining a Joyce confession
Joyce: “I’ve touched Joe’s PENIS.”
Joss: “Oh, is THAT what you think it was?”
Joyce: o_O “psst Dorothy, what did I touch on Joe”
Dorothy: Sideshow Bob eeeughgueeugheugh.
Comments you can hear.
Just belly laughed at that so hard I literally trampolined my dog off me.
Joss: That’s his ‘taint’. As in, “Tha taint Joe’s penis”.
Taint his ass either.
SOMEbody’s been watching “Booty Call”
Dorothy: I wasn’t there, maybe you should ask Joe.
“And feel free to gently nibble it while you’re there.”
been trying so hard not to comment all over this page, because there is so much les coding going on in this page. ~<3
So how long before Joyce tells Jocelyne she’s touched Joe’s wiener?
I give her seven minutes
So we will get to it by mid-January?
The real question is how long before Joyce discusses her washing machine adventure with Dorothy?
It will come tumbling out eventually.
She’s positively vibrating to tell someone.
Not really.
Her laundry experience with Dorothy, THAT’S what she’s positively vibrating to tell so- *vaudeville hook*
… and that’s what people were already talking about. I read the thread twice before posting that. What the hell, brain?
Don’t worry, it all comes out in the wash.
I also would like Dorothy to whisper in my ear, because I only know “on the down low” to mean “keep this discrete/secret”.
If it’s “keep this on the down-low” or such, that is what it means, but if it were like, “he’s on the down-low,” that would refer to a guy who identifies as straight and also has sex with other men.
OH. Well don’t I feel silly for posting several seconds after you did.
Huh. I had no idea.
That’s the definition I’ve known for almost 30 years, from the gay Afro-American community.
Well, well. Looks like I am one of XKCD’s “10,000” today!
I have also never heard this before and thought it meant what Joyce thought.
Yeah, I’d be surprised if Dorothy knew the meaning Jocelyne is implying.
It can also be used to refer to guys who date trans women but don’t want anyone to know they’re dating a trans woman. This is often incredibly dangerous for the trans woman.
I tried to add a note that I was giving a simplified explanation in my comment, but I put it in tags that made it disappear. Anyway, thanks for adding on, and I know there are more aspects that others can expand on.
Damn kids these days and their hip new slang!… or hip new interpretations of pre-existing slang!… or versions of slang that have been around a real long time that I didn’t know about!
I used to be “with it”, then they changed what “it” was!
Down low for closeted sex is the older, original slang. Down low for secretive arrangement is the newer, more recent slang.
The “secretive arrangement” version has been around for decades.
Yeah, same.
Joyce used it oddly in the sentence, but her definition was, if anything, adding more sexual implication that the statement actually has.
I assume Jocelyne is just teasing her here?
My reading was that Jocelyne thinks it’s not very “on the down-low” to post evidence of your underage drinking scam on a public social media feed accessible by your family members.
It is also AAVE slang for a black man who identifies as straight but seeks out gay sexual relationships, but the definition you (and Joyce) are referring to is perfectly valid and FAR FAR more common. “That’s not the ONLY thing ‘on the down low’ means” would make more sense as the line. As it’s currently written, the reader is apparently meant to assume that Joyce is wrong in her understanding of the phrase, which she is not.
You have failed to consider the possibility that Jocelyne is deliberately pretending Joyce’s use of the phrase is weird for the purpose of sibling harassment, as is her right as elder.
Elder sibling rights, we get to protect and teach, but mostly tease.
Maybe a combination of finding out how Joyce meant it (since Jocelyne did see the photos, and also met Ethan when Joyce was “dating” him), and a larger amount of teasing.
None of this is at variance with the general meaning “secretly”.
The connotation is what’s different, not the exact definition.
I would take it to be referring to the fact that her definition is correct, but the usage is wildly incorrect; in other words, the phrase does not get used in the way in which she is using it, regardless of having that meaning.
[clueless_old_guy]
What does “on the down-low” mean?
Usually means you’re dating same-sex in secret. You put DL “down low” in your profile on gay dating sites to tell people to be discrete.
It does get used as a more general discretion thing, I’ve definitely seen it in non-sexual contexts
That would explain Becky’s face in the last panel.
“Usually” is relative. I wager most of the population wouldn’t blink at Joyce’s usage. That’s the standard. Its use in the gay community is more niche.
Jocelyne is teasing/messing with Joyce.
To my knowledge:Madock is right. When referring to a person being “down low” or “on the down low” it pretty much always implies closeted homosexuality.
I think the non-gay meaning only applies to general information or actions. Like “Hey, I’ll help you out but keep it on the down low.” When referring to a person it’s implicit the secret is that they’re gay.
[english as 3rd language]
I was wondering, too
[English as 1st language]
I was wondering, too.
[English 2nd language]
I got it through the context of the conversation and the look Jocelyn give as having a double meaning related to being secretly gay.
secretly but “actively” gay.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/dee-ell/
Awww, those two! So above-board, clearly communicating, cute, direct, honest, knowing themselves, and wholesome!
So “in the closet” is passe?
There’s overlap, but it’s different.
Possibly, for its sexual connotation, in the closet was mostly a white gay culture phrase, from the 60s onward. Down low became a mostly black gay culture phrase, from the 70s(ish) onward.
But in the closet is much older than that, meaning just keeping anything secret. Couple centuries, at least, in British English, and copied by Americans. (like in political speech, gossip speech, forming unions, etc)
It’s generally used to describe black men who engage in clandestine gay sex, but don’t consider themselves gay.
Basically, if Aaron from Pixie Trix Comix was black…
What?! Aaron’s not gay! He just likes to bro out with his bros! Away from the overwhelming presence of all those womens who always hang on him all the time. (poor fellow) What’s wrong with that?
They must be remembering the times as Roman Legionaries, it ain’t gay if you are the one penetrating.
Only wrong answers, right?
“On the dee-ell” is slang for wearing a strap-on.
Fucking what?!
As a lesbian who owns multiple strap-ons and makes frequent use of them, I have never in my live used “on the Dee ell” in reference to strapped sex nor ever heard any of my many sapphic friends do so either.
Is this a regional thing? Like people calling all sodas “coke”?
Consider that Deanatay is responding to their own “only wrong answers” comment.
Don’t forget, Joyce is a size six.
Yeah, I didn’t really get why Deanatay posted that (only wrong answers) either. It sounded to me like they were saying that all the other commenters had given wrong answers, which seemed unlikely.
Thank you, Yumi, for clarifying that it was intended to start a joke thread. That makes more sense.
Or a trans-man wearing a packer in public so as to present a bulge.
Is a packer a cod piece?
Kinda? It’s a prosthetic (the ones I’ve seen have been silicone) that is meant to give the appearance of having a bulge (like Opus said). There are also versions which allow you to urinate standing up (a cup and drain situation) or which can also be used during sex (colloquially called pack-and-play).
Notably, unlike a codpiece (usually external piece of armor to my knowledge), packers hang out inside the underpants.
Ahh. I am now less ignorant of these things than I was a minute ago. Thanks!
Well, Joyce, the good news is that I’m pretty sure the more Dorothy gently whispers things in your ear, the more likely you are to end up actually on the down-low.
Some washing machines might consider her already there.
I’d say they were a bit more up high for that
Joyce (weeks later): “Guys, I have an announcement. Dorothy and I have been doing the gay down low thing for each other. I’m sorry we’ve been keeping it a secret.”
Everyone else: “Yeah, we’ve known for months now.”
*cue Joyce face
At least someone’s enjoying their fries, but how about the rest of yous go fetch food (or re-fetch, in Dina’s case) and get seated already
Ok I’m with Joyce. I thought on the down-low meant keeping things low key and secretive
It can mean two things! But yes I thought the same as well.
It does mean that, in the vast majority of contexts. Even in the sexual context that people are describing here, it’s referring back to the original meaning of the phrase (being secretive/discreet).
Looked into it and the sexual meaning IS the original meaning. I’m a dingus. Can’t edit/remove my original comment so I’ll just leave this here!
Ive heard it both ways.
But as a self ID , Closeted Gay/Bi man had blown up in the African American community by 2003
The phrase “the down low” is used to mean “something not commonly known” in a non-sexual context in the story “Willie Was His Name, Sir” by Sam Hellman published 1925 in the Saturday Evening Post. It does seem like it wasn’t a very common phrase (at least in writing) before the sexual context took over, though.
Me too, but me being a furriner that is not surprising. I am a bit more worried about my browser (or google?) being able to suggest/autofill “on the down low meaning” as a buzzword when I was half way into typing it.
Presumably, there was a lot of other people who read this particular webpage, then went to google that phrase. Cause um… I sure did.
Honestly, I’m more concerned about discussing with my husband if my phone has induction charging, and then immediately having amazon pop up with the exact “occult style light up charging pad” I was saying I’d want. Cause that was entirely verbal and it definitely picked that up via the mic.
You think that’s invasive? Just wait some years when we all have affordable neuralink smartphones in our brains, hooked up to the internet of things, all of it monitored by the tech giants.
Which is a thing explored in the Stray Cat Strut stories.
I think ‘On the down low’ was secret.
But “Down-Low” took over as closeted MSM among Black Americans.
‘on the’ was dropped.
There is a difference between “keeping it on the down-low” and “BEING on the down-low.”
“Keep it on the down-low” means staying quiet and secretive about whatever “it” is.
BEING on the down-low means that it is *you* that is the secret being kept. Because you’re super gay and don’t want people to know.
“This”, Jocelyn, being… your little sister’s awkward lesbian awakening?
Regarding the preponderances of alternate definitions of “the down-low”, let me assure everyone of something.
An older sister playfully toying with the younger sibling about things is absolutely in character :D.
Oh definitely! ‘Tis ancient tradition! Nay, it’s Jocelyne’s sacred right! And the ultimate pay off is TJF! (The Joyce Face [TM])
I refuse to believe “preponderances” is a real word. You made that up, I accept nothing else.
It has been a legal term since before the American revolution.
Everyone knows america isn’t real.
Jocelyne has clearly missed getting to poke fun at her sister
Is it weird that I really want to see the Bulmeria protests?
Also, somehow for Jocelyn to become part of the main cast.
GRADUATE COURSES!
I would love to see Jocelyne join the main cast – although maybe she and Joyce should coordinate so as to not have almost identical hair styles. They look far too identical right now.
The ship isn’t gonna sail, but it’s still fun to watch.
Ahhhh, Joss is the best big sister.
Early comic for tomorrow isn’t helping me here, why does Becky look so heartbroken here? Is she still thinking about “your sexuality might change”?
Because Joyce was unintentionally gay with Dorothy?
Becky continues to have an intentionally-antagonistic-on-her-part relationship with Dorothy due to her jealousy over Dorothy having a larger part in Joyce’s life recently than Becky has had, despite Becky and Joyce having been best friends for most of their lives until Joyce left for college. Dorothy being the one Joyce turns to for things continues to be a sore spot for Becky.
Also Joyce’s feelings for Dorothy are different than they are for Becky. Not necessarily romantic, but certainly a lot closer to being romantic, and that’s gotta sting for someone who was nursing a crush for basically her whole life
Not being into girls at all is one thing, not being into you specifically is another.
Is Becky aware of that though?
I’m reasonably sure that any moments implying that are those the readers have seen, but Becky hasn’t.
Then again, there’s a lot of material so I could be wrong.
She also doesn’t know what “on the down low” means.
I dunno the specific name of the fallacy, and it’s related to the Ad Populum fallacy, but basically it’s “If you’re in a group of 100 people that think one way about the same thing, it’s easy to think that that thing you all think is normal due to . If 900 other people think another way about that same thing, while the 100 people who think that way are still a lot of people, it’s also still only 10% of the population that thinks that way, 100/9900 -> 1%, etc.”
The main reason why Jocelyne would think saying that you are “on the down low” – which normally means “secretive” in general – would mean what most here in the comments say means “secretive about one’s sexuality” is because they’re a person in a community where that phrase is used much more commonly to refer to that, rather than the general population’s definition of the term. It’s important to note that Joyce’ usage of the term, to most people, shouldn’t lead one to believe that “on the down low” would mean she’s being secretive about her sexuality/gender/whatever.
It really isn’t that important to note, is it?
Its importance is subjective, true, but to me it’s an important distinction and piece of context that until I commented it hadn’t been mentioned in the discussion of today’s strip so far.
It may not have earth-shattering significance, but it is interesting, so thanks for characterizing it for us.
Well, yeah, because it’s obvious.
Jocelyne is also likely teasing Joyce with the different meanings, since Joyce said *she* was on the down-low, which is unusual phrasing for her intended meaning.
Wasn’t obvious to me.
I was beginning to wonder if I’d been misunderstanding the phrase the whole time.
To be clear, I know that the phrase CAN be used in regards to someone hiding their sexuality, but I would only ever associate it with secrets in general without context, so big sis implying that general secrets is not what it refers to threw me.
For the obvious part, I was only talking about the part they had said it was “important to note,” as that what was being discussed.
And that part was that the sexual meaning wasn’t how Joyce was using it and that most people wouldn’t think of it that way.
I definitely knew that thinking in both meanings wouldn’t be obvious to most people; immediately figured people in the comments would have questions upon reading the strip.
Jocelyne almost definitely knows people use the phrase in different ways and that many people wouldn’t know the meaning she’s implying. I’d doubt she’d actually fall in the fallacy being described. She wants to tease Joyce, though I think her comment would have been better as, “Oh, and that’s ALL you think it means.”
Free of context, I would think saying someONE is on the down-low would be using the sexuality meaning, while saying SOMETHING (including someone’s action) was on the down-low would be secretive in general.
“Secretive” is still a bit different than “good at keeping secrets,” like Joyce is going for.
Speaking as A Clueless Straight Guy, I would hear it as meaning she had some specific secret she was keeping, decide it probably didn’t mean she was secretly on drugs, and probably land on the sexuality thing by default.
I would not interprete as meaning she was good at keeping secrets in general unless she told me, because I’ve never heard anyone use it to mean that before.
To be clear, “some specific secret she was keeping” regarding her own lifestyle.
If some one just announced out of the blue they were “on the down low”, I’d probably assume something similar.
In the context of what Joyce said about sneaking into a bar and being cool and knowing how bad Joyce is with slang in general, I think I’d get what she’s trying to say.
And then, if I was her big sister, tease her mercilessly about it.
Jocelyn has a lot of confidence they know more than Joyce and almost all of that is unearned.
I mean, she didn’t even know superheroes exist.
I googled it and now I am saying “oh no” while laughing. It’s too good.
Either I didn’t know that meaning of “down-low” until I googled it just now, or I learned it long ago but forgot. In any case I can’t blame Joyce for not knowing. But it’s gonna be funny when she finds out.
I didn’t ever hear “down bad” until earlier this arc.
Younger webcomic creators than I are doing their best to keep me current.
But if you haven’t heard of Strong Bad until now… Holy crap!
That’s why it’s generally a good idea to check what terms mean before incorporating them into your regular vernacular
Or just use them and brace yourself for embarassment — that’s how we learn.
Learned the hard way about “nonce”. Thought it meant “a short time.”
It does.
I think the other use is specifically British slang? And fairly recent?
The other? You mean “a large random number used once to initialize an exchange of secret or authenticated communication”? That’s used all over.
Nah, the pedophile one.
Though it’s apparently older than I thought.
Playing Final Fantasy 14 has made that word very fun. Characters talking about doing stuff “for the nonce” makes sense in context, but it also makes it sound like the Scions are under the thumb of a creep.
Return of the Joyce Eye Twitch
… I’ll gonna animate it
By This does she mean Joyce or are the fries here just so good she had to have some XD
I think she’s using the fry to point at her out self
Oh yeah that makes sense
I think she means teasing Joyce.
Considering the “laundry” she did with Dorothy*, she probably is on the down low
*And wanting Dorothy to tell her how to have sex. And getting Dorothy to draw her naked. I guess we can’t include exchanging nudes because that was an accident but still, she did that too
Joyce is down low for her, down bad for him, and will someday learn what these terms mean.
I’m down for that.
She’s making that down payment, she’s down to clown (frivolous merriment as far as she knows)
I get knocked down, but I get again. You’re never gonna keep me down.
I’m just waiting for the day when she proudly refers to herself as a “friend of Dorothy”.
A long time ago.
Though she still doesn’t know.
Exciting news! Wait no longer, friend!
I only knew “down low” in the general secret, so before I looked into the comments for further definitions, I figured Jocelyne was implying that instagramming your salacious adventures is very bad secret keeping. Especially with the reminder that Jocelyne’s going to a protest with her phone off tomorrow. She might be teasing Joyce about the other definition, but I still think that’s a major part of it?
Yes, Dorothy, very gently, do whisper into Joyce’s ear. Quietly guide her into its deeper meaning.
Unfortunately, it would seem extremely unlikely to me that Dorothy would know the other meaning. She’ll just have to find other things to whisper into Joyce’s ear.
Dorothy: “Omelette du fromage”
Joyce: *Faints*
I don’t know, sounds pretty cheesy.
Dorothy as Gomez Addams and Joyce as Morticia Addams is a mental image I was not expecting to invade my headspace this day. Yet here we are now.
It was a Dexter Lab reference actually.
Dee-dee…
That Joyce says this with her large boyfriend behind her and her hands on her
gal pal is simply perfect. Joss will be telling this story forever.
“So, Jocelyne, what brings you here?”
“I need more stuff to write about. And I think Joyce is going to give me far more than I will need for the next ten years.”
Taking the piss out of her sister and eating french fries. That’s some real trans rep
I mean. Technically speaking. By the OTHER definition. Legally. Biblically. Yes, technically, yes she is also that.