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it’s important to keep an eye on that, from all the sapphic manga I’ve read it’s far too easy to slip straight into dating territory if you do more than the first bang with your bestie
the sudden realizations “hey, we’ve been living together and having our benefits time here for months, and going out to dinner together and buying each other gifts, are we past FWB?” “wait… we weren’t dating this whole time?” ~<3
Change the genders on that statement and you get a current plotline on Pixy Trix comics. Bi dude with no awareness he’s bi, he’s just “broing out” with his friend.
Until something is ruled out, it’s possible. Therefore, with characters, you must default to the most permissive option allowed by canon until proven otherwise; especially in canon-compliant fanfiction.
This means that every fictional character, until proven otherwise, is:
Polyamerous Pansexual Trans-umbrella Genderfluid Hermaphroditic Intersex Hyperromantic Hypersexual with Dis-associative Identity Disorder with their individualized preferences being [All] part of identical triplets with an unknown number of long-lost siblings and half siblings as well as shapshifters for both parents and a PhD in all fields but with a sporadic memory capable of eiditic or forgetful on random chance, as well as having mastered every fighting style but having a twitch that makes them randomly clumsy with a prophesied future of not being predictable and are of indeterminate ethnicity and national heritage and a massive hidden bank account and/or inheritance waiting to be used and limitless untapped magical power.
Every fictional character is carved away from this starting mold. If the character has not been stated to be different than the archetype in any particular way, it holds that trait of the archetype until story establishes otherwise.
That is a writing prompt akin to “It is the sculptor’s power, so often alluded to, of finding the perfect form and features of a goddess, in the shapeless block of marble; and his ability to chip off all extraneous matter, and let the divine excellence stand forth for itself.”
Sort of like Schroedinger’s character traits, but where, no matter how many times we observe something, we can’t conclusively confirm that the opposite isn’t also as plausible an outcome next time, unless narratively confirmed.
Yes, that’s just math. Also, Joe can tell them to do it again, so he can take notes. Amber also, for literary purposes. Walky gets a copy, too. So, yeah, to fulfill responsibilities, Dorothy and Joyce gotta bang several times. For equity, you see. Only fair.
Is it ironic that when Joyce and Dorothy are actually together they act, like, a little gay for each other, sure? But when they’re apart it’s like the whole universe conspires to ship them?
The selfie thing, Jennifer here, Joe’s conversation with Dorothy, Becky and Dina and then Amber? The only thing I can think to compare it to is the “Kiss the Girl” number from The Little Mermaid where Sebastian is trying to subliminally make Prince Eric Do The Thing, but here it’s half the supporting cast, who are not even doing it intentionally, and it’s happening to both of them.
Willis knows where his butter is breaded. and its breaded by a swath of hungry hungry lesbian enjoyers. Come to think of it, *is* there a lesbian version of fujoshi?
You of all people know that when fate conspires to make things happen to the people most horrified by the idea of them happening, it’s almost always the work of Davros Willis.
…. Can you IMAGINE the psychic damage Joyce would suffer if she ever realized that sometimes sex can sound like making Kraft Original Macaroni and Cheese Dinner™? thank god I can’t art…
OH GOD JENNIFER WHY ARE YOU MAKING THIS WORSE!?!?!?! Dorothy and Joyce need to confront their feelings on whatever the hell is going on between them. AND WE ARE SO CLOSE TO THAT MOMENT!!! Joyce does NOT need to think that BFFs make out sometimes, kicking the “are we into each other” can down the road. What the hell…
They’re going to start making out, Dorothy’s going to pull back and go, “Wait, what about Joe?” And Joyce will be like, “We’re just making out as friends, so it’s okay, right?”
I mean if Jennifer the absolute authority on all relationships says it, it must be true! Name even one person in this comic with more experience? You can’t.
Because Jennifer/Billie is Obliviousness personified as a plot device? She has been driving various plot developments by now while thinking she is only minding her own business.
Joe walks in on Dorothy and Joyce furiously making out, like a hurricane of limbs and askew clothing. Joyce pauses to greet him, in her most casually cheerful tone possible, complete with a thrilled-to-see-you triangle grin. He’s confused and conflicted, until Dorothy gives him a little half-wave and says “Hey, Joe.” and he just sits down to watch. A few minutes later, Walky comes back to the room with two buckets of popcorn, hands one to Joe, and sits down next to him.
I really must not be the target audience for this strip because, my initial read was Joyce starting to put together Dorothy’s feelings and not jumping there herself.
Not drinking is a pretty huge step. And if she relapses, I expect it to be short.
She’s not a completely new person of course, but who is? She’s still messed up, she’s still addicted to drama, she’s still in denial about being bi, but the booze made all of that worse, especially for those around her.
She processes Becky as her sister, the best friend she grew up with. One among a number of siblings none of whom are available in the dating pool
Becky processed Joyce as her solid rock that made her feel safe when her family was violent and dangerous.
To Joyce, Dorothy doesn’t come with that baggage.
In fact, Dorothy has been to Joyce a person of guidance and safety when her family became a potential source of danger, as Joyce had been for Becky.
I mean, you don’t have to believe it, but “violently” is a pretty loaded word, and the idea that Joyce cannot be bi because otherwise she would owe Becky reciprocation is……… politely, I will say “weird”.
I can see how she wouldn’t want to kiss Becky. Kissing someone who’s been your best friend all her life must be like kissing your sister. You know. Weird.
It might have helped narrow it down to mention that Alice outright said she loved Billie, but that would require Jennifer to acknowledge what her relationship with Alice actually was.
Is Jennifer even biphobic? I feel like she’s just in denial about herself for superficial reasons that have more to do with appearing better than others over actually having any prejudice or fear towards homosexuality in any way. She is actually extremely chill in this regard. Her self inflicted bi-denial feels really performative. Mostly just in front of Ruth.
This still seems like a weird meaning, to me. Like, if I say ghosts aren’t real, does that mean I’m afraid of ghosts, or that I cannot possibly fear ghosts because I don’t believe they exist?
It depends on whether I sincerely believe that, or am trying to convince myself.
I think ghosts are a confusing analogy because you’re only considering fear, and identity-phobias include dislike, hatred, or prejudice in their definition. It’s different uses of the suffix -phobia with different meanings.
Maybe this will help: after the word “real,” add the word “people.” That’s the unspoken subtext. Example: Ghosts aren’t real people; bisexuals aren’t real people.
Also, words aren’t the sum of their roots. Biphobia doesn’t necessarily mean fear of bisexuals, but any kind of prejudice against them. It derives from homophobia, which seems to have been originally coined around heterosexual men’s fear of being thought gay – not unreasonable at the time when homosexual behavior was still widely illegal and even more socially ostracized.
Which actually fits Billie’s form of biphobia quite closely: it’s her fear of the social consequences of being seen as bisexual that makes her deny it. She can’t deny her actions, so she normalizes them as something everyone does. As “normal”.
She definitely has some internalized biphobia going on, she’s referred to her relationship with Ruth as a ‘phase’, seems to view Asher’s fling with Ethan as being just for her attention/not a real relationship, I think when Ruth first mentioned bisexuality Billie said she thought it was just a porn thing, and even here, she views her situation with Alice as just a little fling/phase/not REAL romance or attraction even though there’s clearly more than just platonic feelings going on between them.
Everything else that has already been mentioned aside, if you believe that being straight makes you appear better than being bi, you’ve got some biphobia. If you take the idea that heterosexuality is the “normal” and bisexuality is weird/undesirable/lesser, you’ve got some biphobia.
I do not think I will ever tire of Jennifer saying something super wrong with complete confidence and Joyce dutifully absorbing it with wide guileless eyes.
Ohhhhh Joyce!!!! Yeah sure it’s totally fine!! You can make out with your best friend! It’ll be normal, just do it, nothing bad or weird could happen, and if it does, it’ll totally be worth it getting to have sexytimes with Dorothy!!
“You can go down on another girl until her fingers are tangled in your hair and she’s shouting loud enough to wake the house, just say ‘besties’ afterward.”
Billie feels like a pillow princess to me.. but otherwise yes, so long as you can make it to the front porch and say “BASE” before someone calls you gay, you’re still straight!
I was looking through the archives trying to remember exactly when Joyce met Alice, and wow, ten and a half years, huh? Gonna just… go into the corner and have one of those “age instantly into dust” moements.
I feel like the sliding timescale makes it worse.
If the characters were locked in 2010 it’d be one thing, but knowing I was younger than them when I started reading, but now I’m way older still fucks with my head a bit for whatever reason.
i may be the minority but i dont want dorothy and joyce to be a couple. the way joyce grew up with her best friend secretly in love with her, her views on female friendships are a bit off. i dont think joyce is bi, i dont think she has an attraction towards dorothy. i think joyce loves dorothy as her best friend, and to her your best friend is someone that you’re incredibly close to with very little boundaries
I’m with you like 2/3 of the way. I think she’s bi to some degree. I don’t think she feels for Dorothy the same way Dorothy feels for her, though. I think Dorothy missed her chance.
I think Joyce is both not as straight as she thinks and into Dorothy in a way she isn’t into Becky.
I would probably agree about the not wanting them to actually hook up though. Open to being proven wrong here, but I don’t think I’d actually like them as a proper couple
I think they’re into each other, but I don’t want them to get together right now. I ship Joe/Joyce, and I don’t think Dorothy would work in any poly dynamic that includes Joe.
Basically, I’ll be really irritated and sad if my favorite couple’s brand new relationship breaks because Joyce cheats on Joe. Like, I get the irony in him not being the one to fumble his very first relationship, but it still sucks to have a relationship end like that. And I feel like nobody in the comments or the comic is considering the partners of Joyce or Dorothy in these equations. Like, Walky and Dorothy are gonna break up, that’s basically inevitable at this point because of how awful Dorothy has been (and her behavior as a partner has been absolutely terrible.)
But Joe and Joyce’s #1 problem as a relationship at this point in time is Dorothy, and it rubs me the wrong way that everyone is so okay with it. Like that one episode of Friends where everyone kept trying to get Monica to cheat on her husband whose name I don’t know. But idk, I have heavy bias from being cheated on by every partner I had except my husband. I really don’t want Joe to go through that and Billie’s stupid advice here combined with Dorothy’s refusal to participate in proper relationship communication (and Joyce’s naïveté in relationships) make that a very real possibility.
Like, Joe and Joyce can do poly, but they need a conversation about it first.
I don’t wanna break up Joe/Joyce (Joece?) eitherI want them to try and organize a three-way, then start giggling and give up after they realize how ridiculous it is.
I think you might been carrying sole baggage into this situation that is really not necessary, nobody has really rised the possibility of cheating happening except Dorothy in her guilt spiral.
1.) It’s QUITE a leap to claim that anyone who expresses excitement for Dorothy/Joyce and aren’t actively talking about Walky or Joe must want them to be cheated on.
2.) It’s an even bigger leap when we have been talking about Walky and Joe! I’ve talked about them a bunch. Lots of people have talked about them a bunch. You are willfully ignoring all the many people who have been explicitly talking about how a poly relationship could work. And SO MANY OF US have pointed out that Dorothy should have been talking to Walky (and Joyce) before doing anything else.
3.) Like, just because the boyfriends aren’t getting a lot of attention right NOW, under a series of strips that don’t feature either of them, doesn’t mean anyone’s forgotten they exist. Some of us have object permanence.
4.) Also, Joe and Walky are fictional characters, and it’s actually morally neutral not to care about their feelings. Because they don’t have feelings. And being okay with fictional cheating for reasons like “this could be narratively interesting to read” does not in ANY way indicate that someone is okay with real-life cheating.
Like. Do not put that on me, friend, just because I am excited for the possibility of my forever-DoA ship coming to fruition. I am in fact both monogamous and super anti-cheating IRL, and in fiction I have extremely little patience for 99% of cheating storylines because I can’t sympathize with the cheaters even a teensy bit.
But wanting Joyce/Dorothy, even totally absent anything poly, does not require wanting anybody to cheat on anybody.
You are literally making up a guy to get mad at here.
I some point earlier this semester Danny sloughed off his Danny-ness and Jennifer later stepped on it like a rake, and she’s just been Danny-ing it up ever since.
Like. Look. You’re still in a mental space where you think it’s likely that Dorothy only thinks she’s sexually attracted to Joyce, when really she’s feeling maternally.
I can’t imagine any bigger waste of my time than trying to convince you that Joyce’s sequence of “…oh, a lewd photo of Dorothy… I should probably delete this, right…? But it would be okay to keep it. Yeah, there’s definitely nothing weird about keeping it. Oh! Jennifer, are you still here?” followed by “wait, making out with my best friend would be okay?” is pinging so many people’s gaydars.
You’ve made it very clear that you are waiting for Word of Willis, so stop asking other commentators to justify it and check out his public Patreon and BlueSky posts.
It can’t be said enough how funny it is that Jennifer places herself as this world-weary human-savant and it’s all based on senior year in high school. Borderline Calvin level delusional confidence.
I strongly get the feeling that Dorothy’s one crush on a woman is considered such strong proof that she wants to have sex with every woman and now she’s getting pushed to have sex with strangers.
I get that it’s a joke but it doesn’t feel right. I must see Dorothy as too much of a person to ship her like a fictional character.
Now that I reflect on that, that’s damned good writing!
Dorothy’s realization of her “one crush on a woman” immediately followed by an “oh no they’re all hot” moment by 3 others, which triggered such a pointed episode of orientation panic that she immediately started sending sexy pics to her boyfriend to try and shake it off.
I’m not sure it was really three. I think her reaction to Becky showing up was just because Becky inadvertently jabbed her right in her just-exposed vulnerable spot, not a sudden realization that she wanted to bang Becky too.
And she didn’t seem to have any reaction to Dina at all. (Unlike Becky, who immediately got the red lines.) Her sudden and hasty departure wasn’t a panicked fleeing of the scene; it was because Becky literally threw her out.
But she does absolutely want to bury her face in the Amazi-Rack.
I’m assuming this is only because of a lack of upper-body muscle. If Becky were built like A-G, Dotty would’ve still been gaining altitude when she face-planted into the Amazi-Cleavage.
Self-destructive tendencies and problem magnet was just the morally cookie cutter easy justification available for Alice…
But this thing here is the real reason she had to let go.
She’s not “strong” enough right now (or back then maybe) to live with or change this type of thought processes that Jen keeps having.
Yeah, one of the big hurdles Jennifer would have to cross to even become platonic friends with Alice again would be acknowledging there was more to it the first time around.
Well she went so far to that extreme that she developed a separate personality to do the opposite of what she says. Maybe all Billie needs is a dedicated “don’t do that” person
People look at me funny when I say that someone can be wrong and right at the same time, but lo and behold.
You can, indeed, have sex with someone who’s entirely platonic with you otherwise (consistently even!). But Jennifer gets here for all the wrong reasons (utter denial of her bisexuality).
Also, if at this point anyone is still denying Joyce’s bisexuality they’re in Jennifer levels of delulu.
Lots of people found the evidence for phlogiston compelling, until Lavoisier demonstrated that it could not be so. I await the demonstration, one way or the other.
Please note that I hold both opposing claims to the same standard.
Yeah, both this (Jennifer , you are gonna need to acknowledge your actual relationship with Alice if you want to engage her like a reasonable person) and also god I hope whatever thing happens here with Joyce and Dorothy is not romantic, but I’m not particularly hopeful.
I will be interested to see how all of it pans out for the other interested parties either way. I feel like Joe’s “I want you to have what you want” or something like that plus the way he has historically done his sex life implies to me he’s not likely to be strictly monogamous. Walky has also implied as much during the Lucy Amber fake gf arc. Becky… Will probably have that one pretty rough even if it’s queerplatonic, I cannot imagine what the situation is going to be if it is both acknowledged and romantic. Interesting setup for interesting fallout.
“I haven’t been that person for a whole two, three months!”
whats really ironic is I dont think Billies even considered that maybe. Its that last bit of advice there. On top of all the (gestures in a circle) going on. No no. Thats not part of it. Ruth was a fluke. Honest.
One of the hardest lessons I learned when healing from my trauma is that you don’t get to have everyone’s forgiveness and to impose yourself on someone like this is just as toxic.
To add onto this, Dorothy isn’t actually trying to parent Joyce. I know mom friend and dad friend are, like, phrases people say and I get it but there’s a big difference between “friend who is very emotionally supportive or takes others under their wing” and “actually trying to become their same age peer’s mother” which Dorothy is definitely not trying to do. I’m not sure why this guy really likes the idea of Joyce and Dorothy as a mother-daughter lesbian couple but as a sapphic person I’d really appreciate it if he’d stop.
I doubt Mark spends a lot of time in juvenile shipping spaces, but it does have more than a whiff of the ole “if I insist loudly enough that this ship I hate is incest, you’ll HAVE to stop liking it”.
“You see, even though these two individuals aren’t blood related, weren’t raised together, and have both met when they were 18, one is older than the other by (insert time frame that’s less than a year here) and she is also pushy and very protective, which gives her a mom energy, so if you ship these two together, you’re shipping an honorary mother and her child” type energy.
I still can’t get over the argument that Joyce angrily shouting at Joyce to leave her alone — not once, but twice in quick succession — somehow proves even more that she could never say no to her??
She was just so danged exhausted by standing up for herself, I guess. And definitely NOT by the debilitatingly, abnormally painful periods that caused her to seek birth control as a solution in the first place.
Dorothy has the power of a mom over Joyce, despite not having any of the things that would suggest such a thing (access to Joyce’s money, intimate knowledge of Joyce and her personality that one can only have from knowing someone since their birth, literal authority over another human being and apparently history giving Joyce a whack with a wooden spoon).
Also it’s true, all fandoms can have mom friend and found family back once they learn to stop coloring everything with weird incest colored crayons.
Darn it, accidentally deleted my first paragraph there.
I meant to also say: “I want to take the terms ‘mom friend’ and ‘found family’ away from fandom for a while, they’ve clearly done more harm than good to people’s ability to articulate and understand fictional relationships.”
You’re right, Dorothy is Joyce’s mommy friend. I didn’t realize it until you put it that way, but she has big “beleaguered single mom” energy. She needs some jeans of a particular style and a long-sleeved teal shirt, stat.
Joyce looking backwards in the last panel makes me think that she’s going to use that information as a fact and bring it up with Dorothy in a way that will be completely confusing and arousing for Dorothy and absolutely hilarious and cringe-worthy for us.
Jennifer should stop to say totally wrong things to Joyce. But it’s too funny to see her doing it! Let’s see if Joyce’s Giant Trusting Blue Eyes will do the magic. For Alice’s sake, I hope not.
Jennifer, I’m not sure if, “you can make out with your bestie, and still be besties”, is the worst, or the best, piece of advice you can give to Joyce right now. Still, being, “besties with bennies”, with Dorothy is not the worst thing to happen in the series; and I doubt that Joe will put up much resistance, it is what Joyce wants after all.
Joyce is going to hang on every word Jennifer says now regarding this, isn’t she? I foresee a “disastrous” Master-Padawan relationship developing, but I think Jennifer will actually positively learn from Joyce herself.
I honestly don’t think Alice and Jennifer will reconcile, but whatever discourse unfolds will likely lead to Joyce recontextualizing her feelings for Dorothy and Jennifer fully grasping the trust that was broken (no conscious acknowledgement Alice was in love with her, the dream she had even has her fading into unconsciousness when Alice says it and is followed by her waking up head first buried in her pillow).
Panel 6: Yesss, Joyce, listen well to the Bi-panic Tutor! Yesss, learn to be a regular best friend with (oh, say, just to pick a random name: _Dorothy_), with a little bit of making out. Yesss, even one bang! Be a good ssstudent!
Friends with benefits is a thing, but somehow I doubt that’s what Jennifer is interested in with Alice. Also DoA has a lot of characters who either haven’t realized they’re bi yet, or only just recently realized it.
idk what everybody yesterday was talking about vis-à-vis bi joyce being dead. this is all reading as pretty standard bi awakening stuff to me. i have a best friend who i want to be my best friend forever and ever and i need her to like me more than she likes everybody else. and if we pose for each other in our undies it’s fine because we’re both girls. normal stuff.
I mean there were a fair few folks who also tried to take Dorothy at her word when she was stammering and avoiding Joe’s eyes and grasping at straws.
I blame Het Goggles. Also, some folks have been reading and commenting on this comic since it started, and dismissing Joyce/Dorothy shippers with “that’s just bait” (???) for at least fifteen years. I imagine that kind of thing leaves you pretty invested in both girls being straight.
(I say “???” because specifically dismissing it as “bait” implies that Willis was trying to trick us for….? Those sweet ad sense dollars, I guess.) (There are a LOT of things it could have been, and indeed I am on record ’round these parts as thinking Willis probably changed their mind about the ship partway through, but I don’t think it was ever baiting or trolling. “Damn you, Willis!” jokes aside, I don’t think Willis has ever set out to hurt people with denial of a queer ship. No, not even Ethan/Danny, lol.)
No i don’t get it either. As if “well she didnt go WOW AWOOGA TITTY” is. Anything. When ill be honest the: UH WELL I SHOULD. DELETE IT. No i shouldnt. Actually its normal to do this.
On one hand, my aroallo pride is screaming “Hell yeah, make out with and/or fuck your platonic friends!” Plus, I 100% respect people who have the occasional non-defining sensual/sexual encounters counter to their sexual orientation.
On the other hand, my frustration with Jennifer’s denial of being bisexual and most likely biromantic is screaming “No, that’s not how that works! You shouldn’t have to justify it away with ‘a little bit’ or ‘once’ if you’re properly comfortable with your orientation!”
Im predicting that Joyce over explaining will make the situation wayyyyy worse for Jennifer. Like your best shot is the autistic formerly fundie homeschooled kid, things are not gonna go how you want, Jen.
She is hurting no one as much as herself with this denial, but it’s definitely something she should ideally straighten out (hah) before trying to talk to Alice again. I don’t think Ms “I thought I loved you” would be very receptive to hearing their teenage romance dismissed as “best friends are allowed to bang like once without it being weird”.
— But also, BOY has Joyce come a long way!! She was SO SCANDALIZED back when she realized Billie and Alice had been intimate. AND LOOK AT HER NOW. That fourth panel face is everything. 🥰
— Also-also: as a few other people have said…
Well, shout-out to my aro peeps, basically. What Jennifer is saying here is not completely off-base. Some relationships are romantic without being sexual, and some are sexual without being romantic. Totally cool, totally valid.
Totally not what Jennifer and Alice had going on, totally not what Joyce and Dorothy would hypothetically have going on, but still cool and valid and normal and so on.
— I’m going to try not to argue with the anyone still insisting Joyce is 100% straight anymore? We’ll see how successful I am at that, but I’m gonna try!
Like, I’m still braced to be wrong here! Less braced than I have been for like… more than a year? Since at least Dorothy’s now-confirmed-to-be-jealous glare at Joe and Joyce while lifting weights in December of 2023… but I am still pretty braced.
On some level, I too won’t really believe it’s happening unless they kiss. So…! We’ll just have to wait and see, I guess.
Currently have my fingers crossed for the very nice flirty-Joyce-in-the-shower that’s coming our way February of next year to be not-unrelated. It’s a very nice Joyce!
Hee, I wanted to make sure you knew because I would feel the same way.
I wonder if it’d help Jennifer’s chances if she listened to “Good Luck Babe” by Chappell Roan, and had the self-awareness to know that Alice probably knows those lyrics REALLY WELL BY NOW, and why that might be.
I know everyone is focused on the shipping implications right now, but still, can we take a moment to appreciate the “Jennifer, that doesn’t really narrow it down” here? Man, that was cold.
There seems to be a hint, in some of the comments, that having a stance of *not* predicting what is coming next and especially not predicting bisexual Dorothy/Joyce is somehow biphobia. Can one not simply read fiction and wait to see what happens? I don’t think people are *not* bi or that they are bi, before any concrete evidence (yes, I’m aware that you can argue about the definition of concrete evidence) – but i really don’t think that makes me biphobic. Thinking it wrong or ‘lesser’ would be biphobia.
I think the thing is, if you’ve been reading this comic, and you’ve been paying attention to the tropes used, and understanding the overarching themes used, and pay attention to who the heroes and who the villains are and what the moral lessons generally are, if you can watch all the interplay and fumbling and gasps and awkward comments made by Dorothy and Joyce, and think “You know, there’s really no confirmation at all that there’s sexual tension between them, they don’t HAVE to be bi, we can just wait and see and not assume before we get more concrete evidence – if you can be at that point, then you’re either media illiterate, or you have some other sort of hangup that makes you unwilling to go there mentally until there’s no other choice.
I see nothing wrong with waiting to see where the storyline goes before jumping to conclusions. I see no reason to state that you are doing so more than once. Nor do I see any reason to deny people that are enjoying speculating, anticipating, and/or predicting, from having their enjoyment.
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only once?
bad info is bad
literally a thing called friends with benefits, sometimes you have friends that enjoy banging with you sometimes, c’mon Jennifer. ~<3
That’s a thing, yes, but explicitly NOT “regular best friends”. First bang, still regular best friends. Second bang, whoops, now you’ve got benefits
it’s important to keep an eye on that, from all the sapphic manga I’ve read it’s far too easy to slip straight into dating territory if you do more than the first bang with your bestie
Yup. Anyone can be friends with benefit. But for n>=2, you’re now friends with benefits and have to be very careful when passing u-haul.
the sudden realizations “hey, we’ve been living together and having our benefits time here for months, and going out to dinner together and buying each other gifts, are we past FWB?” “wait… we weren’t dating this whole time?” ~<3
didn’t you hear, Billie? everyone’s bisexual now
Like Card Captor Sakura…
Imagining Watanuki saying Jen’s lines from the last panel to Himawari about Domeki.
Got a good chuckle out of me with this. He’d absolutely use this kind of excuse
XXX-holic, indeed!
Kinomoto Sakura is very straight. Her brother, her crush, her best friend? Not so much.
What? No. They made that up for porn. There’s just straight women who have lots of sex with other straight women, like all straight women do.
that’s totally normal. which is what Jennifer is.
Very normal. Totally mundane. Experienced, too. Joyce, you should listen to your wise mentor Jennibillie.
men also do this sometimes, i’ve heard
Meh, only for the benjamins.
… Have sex with straight women?
Only if they absolutely have to!
Change the genders on that statement and you get a current plotline on Pixy Trix comics. Bi dude with no awareness he’s bi, he’s just “broing out” with his friend.
“You wouldn’t brojob your bros dude? That’s not very bro of you dude. Brojobs are what keep the solidarity of Brodom alive.”
“Yeah man, that’s gay as hell not helping your bro out like that dawg.”
Like the old military saying: A real buddy is a guy who, if he goes downtown and gets two blowjobs, will come back and give you one.
You get EVERY current plotline on PTC.
Aaron’s totally gonna end up in porn (writin’, performin’, or both).
Honestly, he’d make a killing. Especially if he got his wrestler pals involved, the lucky bastard.
Rule of fictional characters:
Until something is ruled out, it’s possible. Therefore, with characters, you must default to the most permissive option allowed by canon until proven otherwise; especially in canon-compliant fanfiction.
This means that every fictional character, until proven otherwise, is:
Polyamerous Pansexual Trans-umbrella Genderfluid Hermaphroditic Intersex Hyperromantic Hypersexual with Dis-associative Identity Disorder with their individualized preferences being [All] part of identical triplets with an unknown number of long-lost siblings and half siblings as well as shapshifters for both parents and a PhD in all fields but with a sporadic memory capable of eiditic or forgetful on random chance, as well as having mastered every fighting style but having a twitch that makes them randomly clumsy with a prophesied future of not being predictable and are of indeterminate ethnicity and national heritage and a massive hidden bank account and/or inheritance waiting to be used and limitless untapped magical power.
Every fictional character is carved away from this starting mold. If the character has not been stated to be different than the archetype in any particular way, it holds that trait of the archetype until story establishes otherwise.
That is a writing prompt akin to “It is the sculptor’s power, so often alluded to, of finding the perfect form and features of a goddess, in the shapeless block of marble; and his ability to chip off all extraneous matter, and let the divine excellence stand forth for itself.”
Sort of like Schroedinger’s character traits, but where, no matter how many times we observe something, we can’t conclusively confirm that the opposite isn’t also as plausible an outcome next time, unless narratively confirmed.
According to the Cheeto-in-chief, everyone’s transexual now…
OMG, our first trans president. So happy for her. Still a worthless piece of shit but gosh how brave.
Jennifer, this is the WORST possible time to try to sell that delusion to Joyce.
Yeah that last panel advice is going to come back around at some point.
Did you here that Joyce? You get to bang Dorothy once.
hear that.
I hear that!
But once you pop you can’t stop!
You can’t eat just one.
No worries. Both Jennifer and Dorothy are strong people. They can totally lick their addictions.
And then Dorothy also gets to bang Joyce once, that still works under the rules, right?
Absolutely!
And then if Joyce wears a hat and sunglasses so Dorothy doesn’t recognize her, does that still work?
And doing laundry together doesn’t count either, right? You have to have clean clothes! At least once a week!
https://images2.imgbox.com/46/63/PPUHFKMl_o.png
Also, Joyce closes her eyes, so she doesn’t see. Then Dorothy closes hers. Then both close theirs. That’s another three necessary permutations.
Yes, that’s just math. Also, Joe can tell them to do it again, so he can take notes. Amber also, for literary purposes. Walky gets a copy, too. So, yeah, to fulfill responsibilities, Dorothy and Joyce gotta bang several times. For equity, you see. Only fair.
“You get to what who now?!”
– Becky, probably
If that ever happens, it will DESTROY Becky…
Is it ironic that when Joyce and Dorothy are actually together they act, like, a little gay for each other, sure? But when they’re apart it’s like the whole universe conspires to ship them?
The selfie thing, Jennifer here, Joe’s conversation with Dorothy, Becky and Dina and then Amber? The only thing I can think to compare it to is the “Kiss the Girl” number from The Little Mermaid where Sebastian is trying to subliminally make Prince Eric Do The Thing, but here it’s half the supporting cast, who are not even doing it intentionally, and it’s happening to both of them.
I think it’s basically a running gag at this point, but it’s pretty clear they’ve been kinda in to each other for a while, it’s just not very intense.
Willis knows where his butter is breaded. and its breaded by a swath of hungry hungry lesbian enjoyers. Come to think of it, *is* there a lesbian version of fujoshi?
himejoshi!
Roz would know
You of all people know that when fate conspires to make things happen to the people most horrified by the idea of them happening, it’s almost always the work of Davros Willis.
Don’t cross the timelines.
Friends with benefits extends to more than just eye and pharmacare, Joyce!
It also includes making plain mac & cheese exactly the way the instructions on the box say to
…. Can you IMAGINE the psychic damage Joyce would suffer if she ever realized that sometimes sex can sound like making Kraft Original Macaroni and Cheese Dinner™? thank god I can’t art…
She’d just get horny every time she cooked dinner.
I mean her reaction to Joe making Mac and cheese was already……
Gigglesnort!
They also help you do laundry!
This is dangerous information for Joyce to have.
I’m sure she’ll use it wisely and vigorously
“So if we STOP being best friends for at least… like five mins… we can become best friends again and it resets the rule!”
Becky Screaming into the void for the third panel.
Sounds like scientific experimentation and study is called for.
Jennifer teaching Joyce an important lesson in the worst way physically possible
Jennifer is coming at this from a place of biphobia. It’s really not an important life lesson.
This is exactly the advice Joyce needs right now.
OH GOD JENNIFER WHY ARE YOU MAKING THIS WORSE!?!?!?! Dorothy and Joyce need to confront their feelings on whatever the hell is going on between them. AND WE ARE SO CLOSE TO THAT MOMENT!!! Joyce does NOT need to think that BFFs make out sometimes, kicking the “are we into each other” can down the road. What the hell…
They’re going to start making out, Dorothy’s going to pull back and go, “Wait, what about Joe?” And Joyce will be like, “We’re just making out as friends, so it’s okay, right?”
And then Dorothy will have some red panels.
I mean if Jennifer the absolute authority on all relationships says it, it must be true! Name even one person in this comic with more experience? You can’t.
Amber 100% approves of this.
Making things worse is, like, BJ’s role in this comic.
trash goblins banging both hands on the counter
MESS MESS MESS MESS MESS
(it’s me, and many other readers, we’re trash goblins)
MESS MESS MESS MESS MESS
MESS MESS MESS MESS MESS
Yessss, join us.
already a card carrying Trash Goblin, but I flattered ^^
What else does Jennifer do?
Wow everyone with her extraordinary intuition.
Clear stuffed trash chutes. Honestly that’s all I can think of.
Because Jennifer/Billie is Obliviousness personified as a plot device? She has been driving various plot developments by now while thinking she is only minding her own business.
Joe walks in on Dorothy and Joyce furiously making out, like a hurricane of limbs and askew clothing. Joyce pauses to greet him, in her most casually cheerful tone possible, complete with a thrilled-to-see-you triangle grin. He’s confused and conflicted, until Dorothy gives him a little half-wave and says “Hey, Joe.” and he just sits down to watch. A few minutes later, Walky comes back to the room with two buckets of popcorn, hands one to Joe, and sits down next to him.
GLORIOUS
Oh, no a seedhas been planted here. A really gay one.
Don’t worry, that’s safe.
it may be a product of Jennifer’s internalized homophobia, but ah well,
it’s as my aunt once said,
“life gives ya lemons, ya chuck em at people”
At least your aunt isn’t Cave Johnson.
I really must not be the target audience for this strip because, my initial read was Joyce starting to put together Dorothy’s feelings and not jumping there herself.
“not that person anymore”
sure Jennifer, I believe ya 9-9
Heh..I wonder how long she’ll keep believing that.
Until she’s the next new person.
Probably until she has an alcohol relapse.
…. possibly well past that.
Not drinking is a pretty huge step. And if she relapses, I expect it to be short.
She’s not a completely new person of course, but who is? She’s still messed up, she’s still addicted to drama, she’s still in denial about being bi, but the booze made all of that worse, especially for those around her.
In panel four, lesbian love sleuth Joyce takes a heel turn.
It turns out that one word can modify both “love” and “sleuth”!
“y-you can?”
She’s curious 🧐
Or incredulous.
You being really annoying about this you know that?
Jennifer’s follow-up would kind of put it in perspective for her though, if she’s still listening.
I refuse to believe that Joyce would actually kiss Dorothy after being so violently opposed to kissing Becky.
Imagine Becky’s reaction.
The earth would be ripped asunder.
It is possible to be into one person, but not be into another person. Even if you’re friends with both of them.
Impossible. Bisexuality means you are equally compelled to fuck anything that moves.
No that’s a hypersexual pansexual in overdrive.
I saw that once.. those poor Woks never had a chance… was like being in the middle of a steel drum convention.
You have to give Valentines to all your friends and acquaintances equally , no matter how slight. Even Walky.
She processes Becky as her sister, the best friend she grew up with. One among a number of siblings none of whom are available in the dating pool
Becky processed Joyce as her solid rock that made her feel safe when her family was violent and dangerous.
To Joyce, Dorothy doesn’t come with that baggage.
In fact, Dorothy has been to Joyce a person of guidance and safety when her family became a potential source of danger, as Joyce had been for Becky.
Hmm.
I mean, you don’t have to believe it, but “violently” is a pretty loaded word, and the idea that Joyce cannot be bi because otherwise she would owe Becky reciprocation is……… politely, I will say “weird”.
this is originally why Ethan and danny didnt,
so as second hand plot its going to happen
rip Ethanny, ruined by hat guy’s big mouth
Stupid hat guy, always ruining things for Danny.
Is it? In what way?
Do you mean when they were both worried it would hurt Amber?
Is it polite to say “really messed up”?
I was trying to avoid “creepy” or “incel-y”, honestly.
You right, Joyce didn’t realized she was supposd to sleep with Becky at least once.
She didnt seem opposed to me. Just that she didnt feel anything at all.
I can see how she wouldn’t want to kiss Becky. Kissing someone who’s been your best friend all her life must be like kissing your sister. You know. Weird.
It might have helped narrow it down to mention that Alice outright said she loved Billie, but that would require Jennifer to acknowledge what her relationship with Alice actually was.
Little did Jennifer know that her biphobia was about to cause biphoria (that’s Bisexual Panic, the good kind).
Is Jennifer even biphobic? I feel like she’s just in denial about herself for superficial reasons that have more to do with appearing better than others over actually having any prejudice or fear towards homosexuality in any way. She is actually extremely chill in this regard. Her self inflicted bi-denial feels really performative. Mostly just in front of Ruth.
iirc shes basically said bisexuality issnt real as part of her denial so id say thats at least a bit biphobic
This still seems like a weird meaning, to me. Like, if I say ghosts aren’t real, does that mean I’m afraid of ghosts, or that I cannot possibly fear ghosts because I don’t believe they exist?
It depends on whether I sincerely believe that, or am trying to convince myself.
I think ghosts are a confusing analogy because you’re only considering fear, and identity-phobias include dislike, hatred, or prejudice in their definition. It’s different uses of the suffix -phobia with different meanings.
Maybe this will help: after the word “real,” add the word “people.” That’s the unspoken subtext. Example: Ghosts aren’t real people; bisexuals aren’t real people.
Also, words aren’t the sum of their roots. Biphobia doesn’t necessarily mean fear of bisexuals, but any kind of prejudice against them. It derives from homophobia, which seems to have been originally coined around heterosexual men’s fear of being thought gay – not unreasonable at the time when homosexual behavior was still widely illegal and even more socially ostracized.
Which actually fits Billie’s form of biphobia quite closely: it’s her fear of the social consequences of being seen as bisexual that makes her deny it. She can’t deny her actions, so she normalizes them as something everyone does. As “normal”.
Thank you. That’s helpful.
You, you think biphobia mean the being afraid of bisexuals??
Mark did this not too long ago with transphobia (https://www.dumbingofage.com/2025/comic/book-15/02-the-one-where-jocelyne-returns/bestow/#comments , search “Greek” to help find it if you want), so… yes.
Oh jeez, really the type of guy who tries to sound intelectual while saying complete nonsense.
That depends… are you a ghost?
Not yet.
She definitely has some internalized biphobia going on, she’s referred to her relationship with Ruth as a ‘phase’, seems to view Asher’s fling with Ethan as being just for her attention/not a real relationship, I think when Ruth first mentioned bisexuality Billie said she thought it was just a porn thing, and even here, she views her situation with Alice as just a little fling/phase/not REAL romance or attraction even though there’s clearly more than just platonic feelings going on between them.
She very much seems to be in the “Bisexuality is where you figure out if you’re gay or not” club.
So, she’s a Homestuck?
Okay I am a Homestuck fan and I don’t catch the relation between what Ghola said and it.
It’ll make more sense in about 4 hours.
Nah, Homestuck bisexuality is “as opposed to what?”
Huh?
> appearing better than others
Everything else that has already been mentioned aside, if you believe that being straight makes you appear better than being bi, you’ve got some biphobia. If you take the idea that heterosexuality is the “normal” and bisexuality is weird/undesirable/lesser, you’ve got some biphobia.
Joyce isn’t panicking… she’s planning.
oh god oh man oh god oh man joyce.
“You’re allowed to bang (your car into a tree), like, once.”
Jennifer was decidedly not allowed to do that.
She didn’t even ask permission!
Tree Law is very clear about it.
Nice to see the Joyce/Jennifer dynamic get some love here. I always enjoy watching these two lead each other in precisely the wrong directions.
+1
I do not think I will ever tire of Jennifer saying something super wrong with complete confidence and Joyce dutifully absorbing it with wide guileless eyes.
Alright, Jenny, you get a pass this once. Great work here. I didn’t know your game.
Love that “You like krabby patties, don’t you squidward?”-ass face in the middle there.
As Lucy once said in another universe: “Hey everyone, check out these sweet characters makin’ all these precious faces.“
I mean, technically you *can* make out with your friends without it needing to be a big deal. But that isn’t what was going on and you know it
(Also, sometimes you make out with your friends for enrichment and end up basically engaged… Hehe, life is weird~)
Ohhhhh Joyce!!!! Yeah sure it’s totally fine!! You can make out with your best friend! It’ll be normal, just do it, nothing bad or weird could happen, and if it does, it’ll totally be worth it getting to have sexytimes with Dorothy!!
Yeah, it’s basically how Becky wound up transferring from Anderson to IU. Wait….
Best Friends With Benefits.
I feel like I’ve seen a movie about that.
Damn, I’m ace and Joyce’s side eye there even makes me a little giddy about some poly queer action brewing in her subconscious!
It sounds like Joyce is about to learn a lesson on the expert-level challenges regarding consent in a poly relationship.
I’m picturing a direct repeat of Walky’s first time, and Dorothy struggling not to roll her eyes clean out of her head.
And now, the only thing Joyce hears for the rest of the scene is “best friends can make out, best friends can…”.
“You can go down on another girl until her fingers are tangled in your hair and she’s shouting loud enough to wake the house, just say ‘besties’ afterward.”
Billie feels like a pillow princess to me.. but otherwise yes, so long as you can make it to the front porch and say “BASE” before someone calls you gay, you’re still straight!
I assume Alice was the best friend she made out with in the past then.
Yeah, that’s pretty well supported at this point. Probably more than made out with.
Maybe even… banged.
Being a drama hurricane is apparently sexually transmitted.
Oh, mang, those last 2 panels were my personal life philosophy for SO many years…
It did NOT turn out all that great for me…
OOFSIES
Wonder what Becky’s reaction would be to Joyce getting into something gay.
Probably something like this again:
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/02-that-perfect-girl/fox/
Oh man, Dorothy’s little smile as she thinks about being pretend-married to Joyce. While Becky’s brain breaks.
I was looking through the archives trying to remember exactly when Joyce met Alice, and wow, ten and a half years, huh? Gonna just… go into the corner and have one of those “age instantly into dust” moements.
I feel like the sliding timescale makes it worse.
If the characters were locked in 2010 it’d be one thing, but knowing I was younger than them when I started reading, but now I’m way older still fucks with my head a bit for whatever reason.
…man, Jennifer hasn’t so much locked herself in the closet as welded the closet door closed…
And she’s dragging others in there with her!
She’s trying to Wonko The Sane it and declare everything is the closet.
“You met her probably once.”
“I… barfed in front of her?”
Those trusting blue eyes still need a charisma boost… where’s Malaya’s lizard?
Leave it to Jennifer to inoculate Joyce with ideas. Again. It’s basically inevitable. 🥸
i may be the minority but i dont want dorothy and joyce to be a couple. the way joyce grew up with her best friend secretly in love with her, her views on female friendships are a bit off. i dont think joyce is bi, i dont think she has an attraction towards dorothy. i think joyce loves dorothy as her best friend, and to her your best friend is someone that you’re incredibly close to with very little boundaries
I’m with you like 2/3 of the way. I think she’s bi to some degree. I don’t think she feels for Dorothy the same way Dorothy feels for her, though. I think Dorothy missed her chance.
i can totally see that too!
I think Joyce is both not as straight as she thinks and into Dorothy in a way she isn’t into Becky.
I would probably agree about the not wanting them to actually hook up though. Open to being proven wrong here, but I don’t think I’d actually like them as a proper couple
Thank you for articulating my position so well. Let the be who they are, but this is who I think Joyce is, until proven wrong.
I think they’re into each other, but I don’t want them to get together right now. I ship Joe/Joyce, and I don’t think Dorothy would work in any poly dynamic that includes Joe.
Basically, I’ll be really irritated and sad if my favorite couple’s brand new relationship breaks because Joyce cheats on Joe. Like, I get the irony in him not being the one to fumble his very first relationship, but it still sucks to have a relationship end like that. And I feel like nobody in the comments or the comic is considering the partners of Joyce or Dorothy in these equations. Like, Walky and Dorothy are gonna break up, that’s basically inevitable at this point because of how awful Dorothy has been (and her behavior as a partner has been absolutely terrible.)
But Joe and Joyce’s #1 problem as a relationship at this point in time is Dorothy, and it rubs me the wrong way that everyone is so okay with it. Like that one episode of Friends where everyone kept trying to get Monica to cheat on her husband whose name I don’t know. But idk, I have heavy bias from being cheated on by every partner I had except my husband. I really don’t want Joe to go through that and Billie’s stupid advice here combined with Dorothy’s refusal to participate in proper relationship communication (and Joyce’s naïveté in relationships) make that a very real possibility.
Like, Joe and Joyce can do poly, but they need a conversation about it first.
I don’t wanna break up Joe/Joyce (Joece?) eitherI want them to try and organize a three-way, then start giggling and give up after they realize how ridiculous it is.
…What episode of Friends was this?
I think you might been carrying sole baggage into this situation that is really not necessary, nobody has really rised the possibility of cheating happening except Dorothy in her guilt spiral.
1.) It’s QUITE a leap to claim that anyone who expresses excitement for Dorothy/Joyce and aren’t actively talking about Walky or Joe must want them to be cheated on.
2.) It’s an even bigger leap when we have been talking about Walky and Joe! I’ve talked about them a bunch. Lots of people have talked about them a bunch. You are willfully ignoring all the many people who have been explicitly talking about how a poly relationship could work. And SO MANY OF US have pointed out that Dorothy should have been talking to Walky (and Joyce) before doing anything else.
3.) Like, just because the boyfriends aren’t getting a lot of attention right NOW, under a series of strips that don’t feature either of them, doesn’t mean anyone’s forgotten they exist. Some of us have object permanence.
4.) Also, Joe and Walky are fictional characters, and it’s actually morally neutral not to care about their feelings. Because they don’t have feelings. And being okay with fictional cheating for reasons like “this could be narratively interesting to read” does not in ANY way indicate that someone is okay with real-life cheating.
Like. Do not put that on me, friend, just because I am excited for the possibility of my forever-DoA ship coming to fruition. I am in fact both monogamous and super anti-cheating IRL, and in fiction I have extremely little patience for 99% of cheating storylines because I can’t sympathize with the cheaters even a teensy bit.
But wanting Joyce/Dorothy, even totally absent anything poly, does not require wanting anybody to cheat on anybody.
You are literally making up a guy to get mad at here.
i cant lie i forgot how comment stacking works and i thought you were talking to me and i was worried i said something really hurtful
Oh no!! I’m sorry for that. I disagree with you about the characters but you didn’t say anything mean or wrong.
I mean, she can have felling for Dorothy and be Bi without becoming a couple.
Joe: “Why are my Joe senses tingling and it involves Jennifer, Joyce, and Dorothy?”
hope yotomoe is reading thisSo say we Sall.
More than once and you have to say “no homo” afterwards.
No homo.
I some point earlier this semester Danny sloughed off his Danny-ness and Jennifer later stepped on it like a rake, and she’s just been Danny-ing it up ever since.
The Law of Conservation of Danny-ness.
Hm. Yes. Very heterosexual reaction to have, in that last panel. The most heterosexual, in fact.
It is. Tell me it’s inconsistent with “that is such a strange idea, I’m having the greatest difficulty fitting it into my worldview.”
I mean, I’ve been ready to be jossed this whole time by it turning out that Dorothy didn’t mean what she was saying how I thought she did.
Are you ready to be jossed by it turning out that Joyce isn’t saying what she’s saying like you think she is?
Like. Look. You’re still in a mental space where you think it’s likely that Dorothy only thinks she’s sexually attracted to Joyce, when really she’s feeling maternally.
I can’t imagine any bigger waste of my time than trying to convince you that Joyce’s sequence of “…oh, a lewd photo of Dorothy… I should probably delete this, right…? But it would be okay to keep it. Yeah, there’s definitely nothing weird about keeping it. Oh! Jennifer, are you still here?” followed by “wait, making out with my best friend would be okay?” is pinging so many people’s gaydars.
You’ve made it very clear that you are waiting for Word of Willis, so stop asking other commentators to justify it and check out his public Patreon and BlueSky posts.
Thanks you! That guy was getting on my nerves.
Like, I could totally lay the whole thing out there, but why… why would I want to do all that work for someone who’s just gonna be like “nuh-uh”.
Mark is not available to be persuaded rn.
“there’s no way Dorothy and Joyce are going to fuck”
The ever-subtle David M. Willis:
Yes, but there are many ways to share sexual pleasure, even between women, that are not considered fucking, even by women.
There’s always laundry
Billie is either making it better or worse and I’m all for it.
Welcome to the International Order of Trash Goblins.
It can’t be said enough how funny it is that Jennifer places herself as this world-weary human-savant and it’s all based on senior year in high school. Borderline Calvin level delusional confidence.
Billies really doing Dorothy a huge favor ,
Dorothy should be the one who speaks to Alice.
Hooks up with Alice
I strongly get the feeling that Dorothy’s one crush on a woman is considered such strong proof that she wants to have sex with every woman and now she’s getting pushed to have sex with strangers.
I get that it’s a joke but it doesn’t feel right. I must see Dorothy as too much of a person to ship her like a fictional character.
Now that I reflect on that, that’s damned good writing!
Dorothy’s realization of her “one crush on a woman” immediately followed by an “oh no they’re all hot” moment by 3 others, which triggered such a pointed episode of orientation panic that she immediately started sending sexy pics to her boyfriend to try and shake it off.
Dorothy and Walky are definitely going to have to talk about this at some point soon. Or break up, I suppose.
A bisexual awakening doesn’t have to lead to immediately cheating on your boyfriend. Or even dumping him to explore these newly acknowledged options.
I’m not sure it was really three. I think her reaction to Becky showing up was just because Becky inadvertently jabbed her right in her just-exposed vulnerable spot, not a sudden realization that she wanted to bang Becky too.
And she didn’t seem to have any reaction to Dina at all. (Unlike Becky, who immediately got the red lines.) Her sudden and hasty departure wasn’t a panicked fleeing of the scene; it was because Becky literally threw her out.
But she does absolutely want to bury her face in the Amazi-Rack.
I’ll co-sign this.
Well, shoved, not thrown. She didn’t get the full Jazzy Jeff.
But yes to that last.
I’m assuming this is only because of a lack of upper-body muscle. If Becky were built like A-G, Dotty would’ve still been gaining altitude when she face-planted into the Amazi-Cleavage.
Self-destructive tendencies and problem magnet was just the morally cookie cutter easy justification available for Alice…
But this thing here is the real reason she had to let go.
She’s not “strong” enough right now (or back then maybe) to live with or change this type of thought processes that Jen keeps having.
Yeah, one of the big hurdles Jennifer would have to cross to even become platonic friends with Alice again would be acknowledging there was more to it the first time around.
+1
For anyone who’s not entirely sure about where everyone’s standing and how they are oriented, Joyce is glancing in the direction of Dorothy’s dorm.
…. something something orientation pun.
dude it’s literally happening my name is coming true
hell yeah bro
I’m always impressed by how confidently deluded Jennifer is, it happens just about every time and yet I’m always amazed by it.
This is the natural state of humanity.
He said confidently.
joyce is so june egbert. anyone else ever thought this
dorothy=rose billie=vriska
im connecting dots im seeing everything
dorothy=rose/dave its complicated. sorry ill shut up
no no no you’re headed somewhere with this. and you’re so right
vriska=vriska(vriska)
Sitska.
:0 s-sitska….
I dunno, I think Carla might be the Vriska here. Sometimes Carla will say something and it’ll sound like it’s come right out of Vriska’s mouth
Oh, goddammit, Joyce, never do what Billie says, always do the exact opposite
Haha, I remember someone in this comic saying something like that about Amber
Well she went so far to that extreme that she developed a separate personality to do the opposite of what she says. Maybe all Billie needs is a dedicated “don’t do that” person
Yes Joyce, listen to Jennifer. Her advice has always been flawless.
Denial was finally forced out of Dorothy, so it makes sense it is trying to latch on a new host. Billie will do, for now.
People look at me funny when I say that someone can be wrong and right at the same time, but lo and behold.
You can, indeed, have sex with someone who’s entirely platonic with you otherwise (consistently even!). But Jennifer gets here for all the wrong reasons (utter denial of her bisexuality).
Also, if at this point anyone is still denying Joyce’s bisexuality they’re in Jennifer levels of delulu.
Lots of people found the evidence for phlogiston compelling, until Lavoisier demonstrated that it could not be so. I await the demonstration, one way or the other.
Please note that I hold both opposing claims to the same standard.
Thanks for letting us know, again.
Yeah, both this (Jennifer , you are gonna need to acknowledge your actual relationship with Alice if you want to engage her like a reasonable person) and also god I hope whatever thing happens here with Joyce and Dorothy is not romantic, but I’m not particularly hopeful.
I will be interested to see how all of it pans out for the other interested parties either way. I feel like Joe’s “I want you to have what you want” or something like that plus the way he has historically done his sex life implies to me he’s not likely to be strictly monogamous. Walky has also implied as much during the Lucy Amber fake gf arc. Becky… Will probably have that one pretty rough even if it’s queerplatonic, I cannot imagine what the situation is going to be if it is both acknowledged and romantic. Interesting setup for interesting fallout.
“I haven’t been that person for a whole two, three months!”
whats really ironic is I dont think Billies even considered that maybe. Its that last bit of advice there. On top of all the (gestures in a circle) going on. No no. Thats not part of it. Ruth was a fluke. Honest.
I’m starting to realize there’s a fairly high number of bisexual women in this comic. And they often have glasses.
Joyce
Dorothy
Ruth
Jennifer/Billie
Robin kinda counts
Probably a couple I’m missing.
I don’t know if Amber/Amazi-girl counts yet, but she does wear glasses and she’s a friend of Dorothy.
Mandy also has glasses and Marcie has her goggles, Grace, Sierra and Guns are non-glasses bi-girls.
Amber wears glasses. Amazigirl doesn’t.
Come on Jennifer, don’t complicate an already messy situation XD
But that’s her especialty!
TFS reference
That was completely accidental I don’t even know what specific reference you mean.
One of the hardest lessons I learned when healing from my trauma is that you don’t get to have everyone’s forgiveness and to impose yourself on someone like this is just as toxic.
I mean, Jennifer is not wrong but she’s out of line.
“what about doing laundry? does that count as the one allotted bang?”
Joyce – “But, Dorothy and I are best friends…!”
Still thinking Dorothy’s shattering moment of clarity could be:
Transactional Analysis would strongly suggest this. (Huh, haven’t thought about TA in decades.)
You know just because you repeat this theory doesn’t make it any less weird or straightwashing-y.
To add onto this, Dorothy isn’t actually trying to parent Joyce. I know mom friend and dad friend are, like, phrases people say and I get it but there’s a big difference between “friend who is very emotionally supportive or takes others under their wing” and “actually trying to become their same age peer’s mother” which Dorothy is definitely not trying to do. I’m not sure why this guy really likes the idea of Joyce and Dorothy as a mother-daughter lesbian couple but as a sapphic person I’d really appreciate it if he’d stop.
I doubt Mark spends a lot of time in juvenile shipping spaces, but it does have more than a whiff of the ole “if I insist loudly enough that this ship I hate is incest, you’ll HAVE to stop liking it”.
“You see, even though these two individuals aren’t blood related, weren’t raised together, and have both met when they were 18, one is older than the other by (insert time frame that’s less than a year here) and she is also pushy and very protective, which gives her a mom energy, so if you ship these two together, you’re shipping an honorary mother and her child” type energy.
I still can’t get over the argument that Joyce angrily shouting at Joyce to leave her alone — not once, but twice in quick succession — somehow proves even more that she could never say no to her??
She was just so danged exhausted by standing up for herself, I guess. And definitely NOT by the debilitatingly, abnormally painful periods that caused her to seek birth control as a solution in the first place.
Dorothy has the power of a mom over Joyce, despite not having any of the things that would suggest such a thing (access to Joyce’s money, intimate knowledge of Joyce and her personality that one can only have from knowing someone since their birth, literal authority over another human being and apparently history giving Joyce a whack with a wooden spoon).
Also it’s true, all fandoms can have mom friend and found family back once they learn to stop coloring everything with weird incest colored crayons.
Darn it, accidentally deleted my first paragraph there.
I meant to also say: “I want to take the terms ‘mom friend’ and ‘found family’ away from fandom for a while, they’ve clearly done more harm than good to people’s ability to articulate and understand fictional relationships.”
You’re right, Dorothy is Joyce’s mommy friend. I didn’t realize it until you put it that way, but she has big “beleaguered single mom” energy. She needs some jeans of a particular style and a long-sleeved teal shirt, stat.
personally I’d embarrassed if the author of the comic I’m having opinions about was subtweeting me on social media. ig you’re built different though
*sees the face in panel 4*
*starts clapping*
Amber and Joyce have a trait in common: They both crave a certain kind of ‘ship mess.
Joyce looking backwards in the last panel makes me think that she’s going to use that information as a fact and bring it up with Dorothy in a way that will be completely confusing and arousing for Dorothy and absolutely hilarious and cringe-worthy for us.
Jennifer should stop to say totally wrong things to Joyce. But it’s too funny to see her doing it! Let’s see if Joyce’s Giant Trusting Blue Eyes will do the magic. For Alice’s sake, I hope not.
Jennifer, I’m not sure if, “you can make out with your bestie, and still be besties”, is the worst, or the best, piece of advice you can give to Joyce right now. Still, being, “besties with bennies”, with Dorothy is not the worst thing to happen in the series; and I doubt that Joe will put up much resistance, it is what Joyce wants after all.
Joyce is going to hang on every word Jennifer says now regarding this, isn’t she? I foresee a “disastrous” Master-Padawan relationship developing, but I think Jennifer will actually positively learn from Joyce herself.
I honestly don’t think Alice and Jennifer will reconcile, but whatever discourse unfolds will likely lead to Joyce recontextualizing her feelings for Dorothy and Jennifer fully grasping the trust that was broken (no conscious acknowledgement Alice was in love with her, the dream she had even has her fading into unconsciousness when Alice says it and is followed by her waking up head first buried in her pillow).
Panel 6: Yesss, Joyce, listen well to the Bi-panic Tutor! Yesss, learn to be a regular best friend with (oh, say, just to pick a random name: _Dorothy_), with a little bit of making out. Yesss, even one bang! Be a good ssstudent!
Wait, do bisexuals get parseltongue? I know our invisibility got nerfed in the last update.
The climax of this story line after Dorothy declares her undying love for Joyce is Jennifer chopping a confused Joyce’s legs off. Metaphorically.
I just wonder where Jennifer gets these ideas of what’s normal from. I’m pretty sure it wasn’t Linda and Charles. And I don’t think it’s Star Wars…
I think the logic is probably just ‘well, I’m normal and I wanna do this, so this must be how it works’.
Fellas is it gay for a girl to bang her girl best friend
(yes. Yes it is.)
And your point is?
The Giant Trusting Blue Eyes from panel four won’t work on Alice.
Now I want to archive dive to find out when Joyce learned to make that conniving face.
Joyce should give Jennifer the…benefit…of the doubt here.
Friends with benefits is a thing, but somehow I doubt that’s what Jennifer is interested in with Alice. Also DoA has a lot of characters who either haven’t realized they’re bi yet, or only just recently realized it.
I mean… she didn’t technically barf in front of Alice. After all, Alice had already turned her back and left by that point.
idk what everybody yesterday was talking about vis-à-vis bi joyce being dead. this is all reading as pretty standard bi awakening stuff to me. i have a best friend who i want to be my best friend forever and ever and i need her to like me more than she likes everybody else. and if we pose for each other in our undies it’s fine because we’re both girls. normal stuff.
I mean there were a fair few folks who also tried to take Dorothy at her word when she was stammering and avoiding Joe’s eyes and grasping at straws.
I blame Het Goggles. Also, some folks have been reading and commenting on this comic since it started, and dismissing Joyce/Dorothy shippers with “that’s just bait” (???) for at least fifteen years. I imagine that kind of thing leaves you pretty invested in both girls being straight.
(I say “???” because specifically dismissing it as “bait” implies that Willis was trying to trick us for….? Those sweet ad sense dollars, I guess.) (There are a LOT of things it could have been, and indeed I am on record ’round these parts as thinking Willis probably changed their mind about the ship partway through, but I don’t think it was ever baiting or trolling. “Damn you, Willis!” jokes aside, I don’t think Willis has ever set out to hurt people with denial of a queer ship. No, not even Ethan/Danny, lol.)
No i don’t get it either. As if “well she didnt go WOW AWOOGA TITTY” is. Anything. When ill be honest the: UH WELL I SHOULD. DELETE IT. No i shouldnt. Actually its normal to do this.
Not. super straight.
On one hand, my aroallo pride is screaming “Hell yeah, make out with and/or fuck your platonic friends!” Plus, I 100% respect people who have the occasional non-defining sensual/sexual encounters counter to their sexual orientation.
On the other hand, my frustration with Jennifer’s denial of being bisexual and most likely biromantic is screaming “No, that’s not how that works! You shouldn’t have to justify it away with ‘a little bit’ or ‘once’ if you’re properly comfortable with your orientation!”
I think we long been establishing that Jennifer is NOT properly comfortable with her orientation.
She thinks of bisexual as a porn term specifically so she’s rejecting the bisexual label solely on the basis that she doesn’t want to be fetishized.
Hadn’t thought of it in quite those terms.
Wouldn’t surprise me if she (and Alice) had been fetishized by some of the boys at those high school parties.
She is very much not.
Im predicting that Joyce over explaining will make the situation wayyyyy worse for Jennifer. Like your best shot is the autistic formerly fundie homeschooled kid, things are not gonna go how you want, Jen.
— Aw, jeez, Jennifer.
She is hurting no one as much as herself with this denial, but it’s definitely something she should ideally straighten out (hah) before trying to talk to Alice again. I don’t think Ms “I thought I loved you” would be very receptive to hearing their teenage romance dismissed as “best friends are allowed to bang like once without it being weird”.
— But also, BOY has Joyce come a long way!! She was SO SCANDALIZED back when she realized Billie and Alice had been intimate. AND LOOK AT HER NOW. That fourth panel face is everything. 🥰
— Also-also: as a few other people have said…
Well, shout-out to my aro peeps, basically. What Jennifer is saying here is not completely off-base. Some relationships are romantic without being sexual, and some are sexual without being romantic. Totally cool, totally valid.
Totally not what Jennifer and Alice had going on, totally not what Joyce and Dorothy would hypothetically have going on, but still cool and valid and normal and so on.
— I’m going to try not to argue with the anyone still insisting Joyce is 100% straight anymore? We’ll see how successful I am at that, but I’m gonna try!
Like, I’m still braced to be wrong here! Less braced than I have been for like… more than a year? Since at least Dorothy’s now-confirmed-to-be-jealous glare at Joe and Joyce while lifting weights in December of 2023… but I am still pretty braced.
On some level, I too won’t really believe it’s happening unless they kiss. So…! We’ll just have to wait and see, I guess.
We’ve gotta hold on! The kiss of chaos is on the horizon! They’ll be a firework in the background with the bi flag!
Also I only just saw your comment and my comment being shared by Willis, thank you for informing me, living off the high to a healthy degree
Currently have my fingers crossed for the very nice flirty-Joyce-in-the-shower that’s coming our way February of next year to be not-unrelated. It’s a very nice Joyce!
I wonder if it’d help Jennifer’s chances if she listened to “Good Luck Babe” by Chappell Roan, and had the self-awareness to know that Alice probably knows those lyrics REALLY WELL BY NOW, and why that might be.
Oh, I hope not. She’s got enough internalised biphobia already without piling on the externalised stuff.
I hope Jennifer can mentor Joyce in proper relationships and thus turn her into a follower!
I know everyone is focused on the shipping implications right now, but still, can we take a moment to appreciate the “Jennifer, that doesn’t really narrow it down” here? Man, that was cold.
Can confirm.
There seems to be a hint, in some of the comments, that having a stance of *not* predicting what is coming next and especially not predicting bisexual Dorothy/Joyce is somehow biphobia. Can one not simply read fiction and wait to see what happens? I don’t think people are *not* bi or that they are bi, before any concrete evidence (yes, I’m aware that you can argue about the definition of concrete evidence) – but i really don’t think that makes me biphobic. Thinking it wrong or ‘lesser’ would be biphobia.
I think the thing is, if you’ve been reading this comic, and you’ve been paying attention to the tropes used, and understanding the overarching themes used, and pay attention to who the heroes and who the villains are and what the moral lessons generally are, if you can watch all the interplay and fumbling and gasps and awkward comments made by Dorothy and Joyce, and think “You know, there’s really no confirmation at all that there’s sexual tension between them, they don’t HAVE to be bi, we can just wait and see and not assume before we get more concrete evidence – if you can be at that point, then you’re either media illiterate, or you have some other sort of hangup that makes you unwilling to go there mentally until there’s no other choice.
I see nothing wrong with waiting to see where the storyline goes before jumping to conclusions. I see no reason to state that you are doing so more than once. Nor do I see any reason to deny people that are enjoying speculating, anticipating, and/or predicting, from having their enjoyment.
Entirely too reasonable of a take! /s
/ctrl+f “biphobia”
/literally everyone is talking about Jennifer’s internalized biphobia
Sure, Jan.
I mean… that /is/ a thing. I don’t think it’s what was happening in that particular case, though, Jennifer.
There’s other comics where it could be that, and still be fairly in-character.
Joe: ‘I’m willing to be monogamous for love.’
Joyce: ‘I wanna fuck Dorothy on the side.’
Joe: ‘Oh my god, I could have it all.’
Surely Joyce can be trusted to internalize this into her belief system in an emotionally healthy fashion. Surely.
the real question is, does washing machine fun time count as far as using up that “only once” goes?
No, Dorothy was out of the room when Joyce finished.
Jennifer and Joyce talking about what’s normal for platonic friends is a very interesting concept.