Robert Downen @robertdownen.bsky.social ⋅ 5h
Matt G / AwesomeToyBlog @mattguzy.bsky.social ⋅ 3h
Scott Rivers @alasbabylon.bsky.social ⋅ 10h
Assigned Media @assignedmedia.org ⋅ 1d
Iantos @iantos.bsky.social ⋅ 2d
Phil Lewis @phillewis.bsky.social ⋅ 1d
preternia @preternia.com ⋅ 1d
preternia @preternia.com ⋅ 1d
David M Willis! @damnyouwillis.bsky.social ⋅ 1d
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those are riot police in the background, aren’t they?
No, the alt text is a reference to the Clash, the Police are a different band entirely.
This made me smile. Thank you.
Thanks for the reminder as to why I don’t like Asher.
GODDAMNITSOMUCH
(
)
Who?
https://store.gocomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/pb141019-framed.png
Oh, that’s our shortstop!
Guess.
Yyyyyyyup, they sure are.
I wonder if Lester is one of the goons in this platoon?
If he is he’s not one of them we can see at the moment. Usually he would be tagged in that case.
Underrated comment
Looks like it.
Unless this is really just a dream. Then, they’re The Dream Police.
I don’t see any horses.
AGAIN, GODDAMNITSOMUCH
(That’s a Cheap Trick to play, indeed!)
please god kiss
They’ll be interrupted from a kiss by the police arresting them. Not to worry though, they’ll have plenty of time to make out overnight in the jail cell.
I love this comment paired with a Joe avatar.
Wait! Does that sign say NO KISSING BY CAMPUS TRUSTIES ORDINANCE?
Looks more like “no fisting”, or at least some word that ends in -isting.
protesting
That’s right. Both kissing and fisting are allowed.
Please gods just follow the rules for once!
I protest…
Existing.
… that’s exactly when they’re gonna make out, aren’t they? 0-0
Horny Jail, even.
THIS IS THE RIOT POLICE, YOU TWO ARE ORDERED TO KISS OR FUCK OR WHATEVER ALREADY BECAUSE WE ARE ALL GETTING TIRED OF WAITING
…Or just keep gazing meaningfully into each other’s eyes forever. That works too…
But, maybe, on the *other* side of that fence, please…
Joyce, you don’t save anyone by getting more traumatized right now. Please just work on healing the traumas you’ve already *got*, for now…
maybe if I play a song it’ll get em to get going!!! D:<
*plays “Detroit Rock City” by KISS on hacked muzak*
the cops would play KISS, wouldn’t they
they also like donuts, but I ain’t gonna let them ruin that either for fucks sake
It’s not police ruining KISS, it’s Gene Simmons.
oh let’s not gloss over Paul Stanley’s “it’s a brand not a band” bullshit
i want to see the drama continue, but also yes
kiss already dammit
Maybe there are good cops.
yeah the whole good cop bad cop dealio definitely ain’t beneath them (-_-)
Everyone I ever thought was a good cop later defended cops murdering innocent people. If cops murder there is zero advantage to even having cops.
Sure there is. Cuts out the middleman.
Among the list of Grievances (of tyrannical offences) in the Declaration of Independence:
“For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:”
Unfortunately, the “good cops” always defend the terrible actions of the bad ones.
Folks, you are replying to a joke. The joke is:
shadowcell: haha what if the riot police ordered them to kiss
Irreleverent: haha what do you know maybe not all cops are awful
They are not suggesting any real-life cops could be good.
JUST LET US GET SOME POPCORN FIRST!
Said with all the composure of Sapphos and her friend!
just gals being pals
such roommates
Four out of five archaeologists and historians agree.
YASS QUEEN STAYYY
DoA is really in the running for most goddamn suspenseful webcomic running today sometimes.
“The suspense is terrible. I hope it lasts.”
I dunno. The popcorn doesn’t taste quite as good this time.
Why yes. Willis has me worried.
Mmm, personally I think he overshot at this point — I’ve gone through “suspenseful” and all the way into “okay, this is boring, you built up too long and I somehow am even LESS entertained by Joyce/Dorothy drama than I already was.”
I REALLY hope she does not cheat on Joe. Especially after we just saw how much she’s changed him
Right? Everyone’s begging for the kiss and I’m over here like “What the hell is wrong with you people? Cheating is BAD.”
Yeah but the DRAMA!!!
None of us got here by signing up to read a comic called Wisdom of Age!
Yes, but cheating isn’t about being ‘dumb’. It’s about being selfish and untrustworthy. A character who has always been portrayed as having a strong moral center to behave in such a fashion (I’m talking Joyce, here, not Dorothy, who has a messier moral code at times) undermines the character.
Joyce has always been shown as not exactly having a strong moral center when her romantic/sexual feelings get involved. See the whole Jacob thing for the most obvious example.
I actually don’t think this is entirely fair. Joyce was operating on Hollywood Romcom Logic at the time, and rationalized breaking up Raidah and Jacob as being okay because Jacob was clearly Sarah (
Joyce)’s True Love, and All’s Fair in Love and War.It didn’t help that Raidah was also Sarah’s enemy — Joyce tends towards binary thinking (something I’m sure none of us ND folks find relatable at all), and I think it was very easy for her to rationalize breaking up Raidah and Jacob as being not only good but The Right Thing to Do on multiple fronts.
Has Joyce ever actually had a “strong moral center”, though? She found out Becky was gay and was an atheist within like 24 hours. She has good vibes, and when her stated morals clash with them she discards them instantly. Which has generally been a good thing because her stated morals were bad, but no reason to suspect she’ll stick by her current morals just because we like them more.
1) Not sure what becoming an atheist has to do with “strong moral center”.
2) She didn’t actually become an atheist until after her own family’s church supported the man who threatened her with a gun and kidnapped her best friend.
And frankly, “good vibes” are probably better than most established moral codes, whether religious or philosophical. A decent working empathy goes a long way. To quote Joyce herself: “Turns out people still have feelings and you still care about them.”
Yeah, and nothing has to be wrong with someone to want their fictional characters to be messy.
Leave the moral judgements of real humans in your pocket.
My pocket isn’t big enough.
Yeah, this would *destroy* Joe if she cheated on him.
The most tiresome take. Someday, hopefully, you’ll be embarrased when you remember that you used to think people with different tastes in fictional drama need to have something wrong with them.
At 40 years old, I will never understand people who are amused by cruelty and pain towards good people.
And I never want to.
Look, as someone who routinely gets shit on in other spaces because one of my favorite characters in fantasy fiction is objectively also one of the worst protagonists in fantasy fiction who is also in his 40s…
I think there’s a pretty foundational difference between “amused (and oh boy is THIS the wrong word, “entertained” is significantly closer to the reality) by cruelty and pain towards good people” and “wants more low-to-mid-stakes drama in a fictional entertainment”.
I’m as big a Joe+Joyce stan as they come, I sincerely believe it would ruin my enjoyment of Joyce as a character if she cheats on Joe, I find Dorothy/Joyce drama so boring it’s actively painful at this point, and I can still also say “if there were no stops, bumps, and turns on this path it wouldn’t be a story worth reading”.
Did you feel this way about the Toedad/Blaine arcs, or did you enjoy the adventure story? How is enjoying THAT storyline (in which cruelty and pain happened towards good people) different from enjoying a theoretical one wherein Joyce and Dorothy make the dumbest romantic decision in their short college lives?
Where are those people? Name names. I haven’t seen a single one.
Big Z coming in here with the thoughtful nuanced response.
Lumino, I’m genuinely sorry you’re 40 and still having trouble distinguishing fiction from reality, but it doesn’t mean anyone who cheers for fictional drama has anything wrong with them. Most of us feel differently about things happening in reality to actual people with feelings, hope that helps.
I have popped the absolute fuck off for genocidal characters committing war crimes in a piece of fiction. Because it was an appropriate, predictable, and realistic escalation of the drama at hand, I believed that that awful character would do it, and it represented a seismic shift in one of the narrative threads in the story.
The morality police are not gonna believe this, but I actually do not support genocide, dictators, or war crimes. I actually think all of those things are quite bad. However, I expect high-fantasy political struggles to include upsetting elements because that is literally the type of thing that happens within that conflict.
So, I’ll never comprehend the thousands of people who seemingly chose to read a comic about sheltered university students who don’t yet have life skills, but actively come to vitriol when those kids predictably act like they are children who do not yet know who they are, or have good life skills, or otherwise don’t overcome life’s emotional and moral challenges with grace. The characters behave very realistically based on who they are. And it makes for a good series of stories between the characters, that I can imagine really unfolding.
If you want to read a completely unrealistic story where all the characters are nice and there are no stakes, those stories exist out there! This strip is not, and has never, been one of them! If reading the comic makes you physically ill with guilt or rage at the conduct of the fictional characters? Maybe don’t read it? Maybe it’s literally not what you’re looking for?
(i wanna specify this is not a direct reply to who i’ve directly replied to, because people frequently get confused by that and feel called out)
I’m p sure I co-sign all of this, yeah. Especially that second to last paragraph.
Folks should take care of themselves, and that very much includes checking out if a comic is making them so miserable.
I don’t think someone saying they think a character doing this would be bad.is making someone miserable.
Criticism of certain bits of the writing that perhaps you don’t agree with does not mean they do not enjoy the comic.
I’ve had some issues with how certain characters are portrayed, and certain patterns if it were anyone but Willis I’d have raised a brow.
Someone feeling that Joyce and Dorothy cheating on their current partners with each other is a bad writing choice is fine tk have.
Especially since dorothy just got back with walky, and joyce and Joe only started dating, it feels like what was even the point of starting those relationships if this was how it was going to happen, especially since they had shown that romantic chemistry while single.
I know sometimes life is complicated and messy, but imo it’s adding an uneeded extra step to the romance.
Plus love triangles are pretty hated by most people since they’ve been done to death.
@Mr. Morningstar: with due respect, people have absolutely expressed a LOT of distress in this comment section over both the fictional characters making poor choices and over other people not sharing that distress. Capslock yelling in today’s comments, at least if it hasn’t been deleted yet, being one example — but some folks have expressly said they were quitting the comment section over other readers’ lack of empathy.
“This is poor writing” is occasionally also said, but rarely, and not what either of us were talking about.
There are a lot of threads here, it’s easy to wind up thinking someone who mentions a thread you haven’t seen must be talking in bad faith about a different argument, but I promise you, the two of us were talking about a real segment of readers that are saying the things we were saying they are.
You can make valid points without making unnecessary jabs at someone you know.
In response to someone telling me I must have something wrong with my head?
“Someday, hopefully, you’ll be embarrased when you remember that you used to think people with different tastes in fictional drama need to have something wrong with them.”
You are going in hostile too in these comments because of differing opinions on the story, and you questions someones sense of reality because they were a little snippy about how you said that.
Take a breath.
“Right? Everyone’s begging for the kiss and I’m over here like ‘What the hell is wrong with you people? Cheating is BAD.'”
is what I was responding to
but sure lol I started it
If only I could delete that reply, because why did I bother?
The ADHD does mean that even my least invested comments tend to be verbose unless I make significant effort to edit them down, and that’s always gonna come across to some people as me getting heated, so I don’t expect you to actually believe this, but my emotional investment at this point in this same tiresome argument is actually very small.
If you wanna believe that I overreacted to “people who like different fictional drama than me must have something wrong with them“, that’s fully your prerogative, and you’re welcome to the last word here.
No one in Dumbing of Age is a good person. Or a bad person, either. They’re not people at all, they’re cartoon characters. It’s like shaming someone for wanting to see Wile E Coyote get hit by an anvil.
It’s not cheat,ing it the other partner is down with it. Do you honestly think Joe would not be down with it?
Yes, I think the man whose father was Richard of all people would not be down with his girlfriend flirting with another woman before telling him about it.
He knows about the Dorothy side of it, but, yeah, I think both Walky and Joe would be hurt by this escalating without being kept in the loop, realistically. Joe would perhaps be *less* upset about it, but neither would just let it roll off their back without feeling betrayed by, well, something that *would* be kind of a betrayal if handled that way.
I honestly do not think Joe would be down for it. I honestly think you need to learn that’s the kind of thing you shouldn’t just guess.
Exactly. As someone who has been cheated on, it’s NOT a good feeling. It’s horrible, and it destroys your trust in the person who cheated. And Joe has been so good lately, it would be a terrible thing to do to him.
The thing is, Joe might be down for it, if Joyce and Dorothy approached him directly with this, in a mature and open fashion. He’s shown actual evidence that he could be cool with it.
He’s not cool with Joyce going behind his back, and I feel like this is explicit in the text. The only reason Joe was able to confront Dorothy about her feelings, is because he has Joyce on such a high pedestal of purity and morality, that he genuinely cannot imagine that Joyce would actually do this to him.
He will not be okay, if and when he finds out that something actually happened between them.
NO. I FUCKING DON’T?????
JOES WHOLE THING IS HE HATES HIS DAD FOR FUCJING CHEATING
No, I do not think he would be
Maybe if they asked first he’d be tentatively okay with it, but right now, no.
In general, most people don’t like it when the person they’re dating cheats on them. Especially Joe, since his dad cheated on his mom with a lot of women.
It’s kind of icky that just because Joe finds the idea of lesbianism attractive (and yes, it’s a dated stereotype, but at least he’s barely brought it up in a really long time), that some people think he’d be okay with being cheated on as long as it’s for another woman.
It’s been a really long time for us; for Joyce it was a couple of months ago that he watched her and Roz argue angrily while urging them to kiss.
That said, I don’t think he’d be cool with this. I think he’d try to make himself be cool with it, saying a lot of the same things he said to Joyce about her night of drinking with Dorothy, but he’d be sublimating his real feelings in the name of being a Perfect Boyfriend.
That second outcome has 110% been my biggest fear about Joe and Walky in this storyline, btw. That they’d feel obligated to be in favor of the arrangement, despite not actually feeling enthusiastic about it deep down, but not wanting to admit it.
Yeah :/
I want nice things for Walky, too (I feel like wanting nice things for Joe goes without saying), but that includes like… actualizing his own boundaries, ans sticking up for himself.
It was valid for Lucy to leave him, but I do feel like he has currently internalized this idea that he’s just a guy who keeps blowing great relationships with awesome women, when that’s not fair to him at all.
Joe has major trauma and history with cheating hurting people, he will 200% not be down with it.
Like this whole thing has been to test if Joe has really changed when she breaks his heart and sours their friendship too.
This is already cheating.
They’re both being emotionally unfaithful to their partners by not just feeling attraction to someone else but indulging those feelings. Being attracted to someone else happens. Pursuing those romantic feelings is a choice.
And they’ve attempted to go and find a place to perform solo acts in each other’s presence, only foiled by traffic in the intended location. “Sure, we were touching romantically and mooning into each others eyes, but we never actually touched bits.”
Even if they step back *immediately*, what they’ve already done so far would not be cool to a partner with any reasonable degree of self-worth. The partner would rightly see it as a betrayal. It’s the betrayal that makes it cheating, not whether or not the feelings outside the relationship were requited or consummated physically.
Yeah, they’re already over a line.
I think at this point, they could step back, decide they’ve really got to back off and not do anything even close to that again and be basically okay, but they really need to address it rather than just pretend nothing was going to happen.
Ngl, I also don’t want the next year of real life time to be devoted to the fallout of Joyce and Dorothy blowing up their respective relationships.
EXACTLY OH MY GOD THANK YOU SOMEONE SAID IT
Many people have said this, repeatedly. Just because it’s not being said in today’s comment section doesn’t mean it’s never come up. (I’m literally one of the people who’s said it.)
Personally I do want that. seeing all the ways different characters react, the fighting, how it reflects on each of the people involved. sounds like a really interesting time
not saying it’s right, but things do kinda happen when emotions run high/spur of the moment, be kinda odd if it’s like “yeah lemme send joe/walky a breakup text first” and make otu two seconds later (Tho iguess they had a similar moment before)
Go outside the fence but remain holding hands, imo, come back when you’re better prepared for this sort of thing
> jocye
Also, dear fucking god this is dramatic. And the bridge in the background! What adventures are they about to get themselves into?
“We’re almost out” – Famous last words!
One of them also pulls out a photograph of their fiance. And the other mentions retiring in a week.
kinda weird to pullout a photo of the person in front of you, but alright.
lesbians are simply dramatic like that
“Just one last job, and we’re done for good.”
Let’s live our lives heroically, let’s live them with style
Do they have enough love in their hearts to go and get their hands dirty?
Something Something Absolute Destiny Apocalypse
dum vivimus, vivamus
You don’t see many pop culture references to “Glory Road”. Nice.
Dumb vivimus, vivamus somehow seems apropos here
Walk that Glory Road!
Take my revolution!
Ah yes, if we leave the fenced area we have to stop our homoeroticism that originally started outside of the fenced area. Makes sense
Listen, when big symbolic-looking things are going on around you ya gotta take advantage.
How long has Joyce been dating Joe again?
About ten days.
‘Bout a week.
It’s been months of their relationship building up to this though
True, but most of which Joyce didn’t know about. Joe’s had feelings for a long time — not entirely unlike Lucy’s feelings for Walky, though Joe knew Joyce better than Lucy knew Walky?
No, Joyce has also has at least some degree of romantic feelings for Joe. Months ago in-universe she was shown to be pretty upset when Joe hooked up with Malaya. She’s also suspected he had some sort of feelings towards her since he changed her rating to a 0 on his “Do List”
Okay, agree to disagree.
They’ve also been attracted to one another since the first days of the strip; if Joe hadn’t been dead-set on being foot-loose and fancy-free, and Joyce hadn’t been so uptight she hired Mike of all people as a chaperone, this might’ve become the OTP of the strip from the start.
A decade, because they are all aboard Endurance.
No chance those gates will close and trap them in there while they’re having their routine sapphic angst moment right?
Wait I just realized they haven’t actually left the fenced-in area yet. I thought they were holding hands just outside the fence but they’re still in there. Maybe they could go outside the fence before having this moment or whatever.
But if they go outside the fence they won’t have an excuse to keep holding hands.
I feel like I’m the only one that doesn’t want Joyce and Dorothy together 🫣
I wouldn’t mind if they weren’t already in relationships, but they are so I am with you
Yeah, not only would it hurt Walky and shatter Joe, it would also mean that the next like year of IRL time would be devoted to dealing with the fallout of it.
You’re extremely not the only one, and they’ve been pretty vocal about it, pretty consistently. The current poll has folks who are at least against this because they’re both in relationships at 42% of the people who voted.
Oh that’s what that means. Thank you, I missed it.
Basically. When the poll was first added to the site, it was in response to a user joking that the comment section was divided into two factions:
1. Relationship Paladins, a group of readers united by their desire for the characters to do the Lawful Good thing here, i.e. not cheat on the boyfriends they both have. (Some Relationship Paladins are fine with Dorothy and Joyce getting together someday, but they want it to be above board.)
2. Sickos, named for the meme unintentionally created by that Jack Chick and his horrible moralizing Chick Tract comics. “Sickos” broadly describes the other part of the readership, united by their desire for more drama by whatever means. (Some Sickos want Dorothy/Joyce specifically to happen, some Sickos just want mess in general. “Trash goblins who crave mess”.)
Obviously this is all at least somewhat tongue-in-cheek? I know there are a fair few people, myself included, who voted for “sickos” even though we’d ultimately like to see these kids all happy — and I’m sure some folks picked “relationship paladins” just because they don’t want Joe and Joyce to break up, and not because they have strong feelings about fictional cheating as a source of drama in the abstract.
We all contain multitudes.
@Li It’s not a reference to Chick Tracts. The sickos joke is a reference to parody comic strip in The Onion.
Here’s the original strip: https://nobodysuspectsthebutterfly.tumblr.com/post/727459289488359424
Huh, this is my first time ever actually seeing the source of that Sickos meme
Okay, but to be very clear, that’s parodying Chick Tracts. It’s just an extra step removed.
Man. Now I’m doubting myself.
Chick Tracts are both black and white and ugly as heck, but I don’t think he does that much labeling. It’s probably a mix of sources on the parody.
Sorry!
Seems like a broad parody of political cartoons in general, looking at it.
Yep! Dang. Definitely a today I learned thing! Thanks, thenamelesssamurai!
I read this the other way around when I voted tbh, I voted sickos because they’re cheating so they’re sickos
Maybe polls like that one should contain a link to the comment thread they’re based on! Many people missed the original conversation and have expressed confusion, and I bet you aren’t the only one who would’ve voted differently or not at all…
I know there’s a limit to how much Willis can customize things though, so that might not be an option. (It might be plain-text-only on the poll widget, not allowing HTML for a link at all.)
I’m fine with them getting together, if they break up with their boyfriends beforehand. Apparently that opinion puts me in “relationship paladins” in the poll.
You can break up anytime. What’s the rush?
Because I don’t want them to cheat on their current boyfriends if they decide to become a couple.
Yep, sounds like relationship paladin to me.
So, do you think Joyce should go first and break up with Joe without even knowing if “we were just confused” Dorothy is willing to reciprocate? Or do you think Joyce should deny her feelings for the girl who gave up Yale for her? Or maybe you think Dorothy should go first and jerk Walky around again when he knew they were girlfriends before they did? Which way do you prefer?
None of the strawman options you’ve presented. I will take the secret fourth option where Joyce and Dorothy *talk* about their potential feelings for each other like adults, before they cheat on their respective boyfriends, and decide *together* what they want to do about it.
(“Before” in the sense that by talking about it they avert the potential cheating, not that they talk about it and then cheat anyway, just in case that wasn’t clear.)
It honestly wasn’t clear in this case, good clarification. Because we’ve seen them almost talk about it and then be like, well, let’s go maybe do something anyway…
Yeah, for a brief exciting moment I thought we had a vote for talk about it like adults and then cheat.
For maximum mess, they could always talk it over like adults and then immediately decide to explicitly and unreservedly cheat on their boyfriends with each other, no innuendo or misdirection involved.
Joyce: “We can go to Yale… Together.”
And then Joyce grabs Dorothy by the face and throws them both off of the tall tower.
okay but you do see, from reading the comics, how this is an unrealistic expectation of these characters? right? like, you can perhaps glean how and why there are barriers within the characters that make it harder for them to do the absolute obvious perfect thing to solve the problem? how, perhaps, for those of us who are 30-40+, and have decades more life experience than these characters, and have spent more time managing our emotions and healing our trauma, it is much more obvious to us how simple the solution to this situation is.
the truth of the matter is that on the whole, I am much closer to the Relationship Paladin side of this whole thing, than the Sickos side. But, a lot of the Relationship Paladin Zealots cannot accept a story where any character makes any moral mistakes whatsoever, and want every character to act like a self-actualized middle-aged person who knows how to solve the kinds of life problems that 20 year olds consistently screw up. And that’s so fucking unrealistic, I can’t comprehend what enjoyment they get from reading this strip, or what it is they’re actually looking for from it.
I cannot comprehend how 50% of the readership of this comic cannot have even the slightest modicum of sympathy for a cast that is almost exclusively comprised of heavily-sheltered teenagers with moderate to extreme levels of real-life trauma to unpack. Like, yes, all the characters make horrible mistakes, on the regular. They do this because they are learning who they are as people, and have not had years of experience practicing the best ways to act. That’s how a coming of age story works. It is the epitome of genre convention. It is the sole reason to engage with the strip. It is, literally, what it is.
It’s like 50% of the people reading are only drawn to the comic, so that they can have the excuse to feel morally superior to fictional teenagers. Which, even for this comment section, is just…wow.
Yes if you want to attempt to pursue another relationship you should end your current one?
..YES absolutely she should 100% do that, unless she plans on stopping this and going back to Joe.
Thats the actual ethical thing to do.
Cheating is bad
So is asparagus.
No, asparagus is good. Pineapple and fish on pizza is bad.
Pineapple on pizza is bad.
It’s not even pizza if it doesn’t have pizza fish.
And asparagus is good on pizza.
The youth, always in such a hurry.
Why, there must be fifty ways to leave your lover.
… get abducted by aliens. Fifty-one! There must be fifty-one ways to leave your lover. Slip out …
You can break up any time you want
But you can never leave
Yep, I very very much ship them and want them together, but they need to break up with their boyfriends first.
Ditto.
An absolutely unreasonable and unnecessary position to take.
They don’t need to break up. They just need to talk about it. Monogamy is extremely overrated.
Ugh. I HATE that monogamy is the default assumed status for relationships. Humans aren’t naturally monogamous.
They need to talk about it and come to some agreement. And frankly, I doubt any of those involved are emotionally ready for polygamy.
As for “naturally”, the general scientific consensus is we’re mostly “socially monogamous” – we form pair bonds, but not always life-long ones and with a decent amount of cheating on the side. High-status males also tend to form small harems, but don’t control mating access to the whole group as more sexually dimorphic primates tend to do.
Polyamory. No one’s even proposed yet let alone gotten married and unlike polyamory polygamy is not currently legal.
It’s not technically illegal but it is extremely legally difficult on multiple levels if you want to be committed and share property and leave each other property. Polyamory isn’t illegal, but nor is it legal in any real sense of the word. This is one of the fights we set aside for same-gender marriage, and why “marriage equality” is definitely not actually a thing we have yet.
Nope, you’re not the only one.
I’m as lesbian as they come, but I can also tell when two people are just not right for each other romantically. Also Dorothy kind of has hit the nail on the head that her feelings for Joyce are tied up in trauma responses and pursuing those feelings would not be healthy for her right now anyway.
I approve this comment
How on earth do we have ppl in these comments going “gay attraction can be a trauma response and thus not real” is an actual thing that happens???? the trauma response is her lying to herself about being queer, not being queer!!! someone cant scare you gay, the implication is homophobic.
They’re not saying Dorothy being queer is a trauma response, they’re saying that Dorothy’s kinda co-dependent attachment to Joyce is trauma response. Her romantic feelings are mingling with PTSD and a fear of losing Joyce, and she keeps making kindaaaaaa self-destructive decisions.
It’s undeniable that are does have trauma related to Joyce and that complicates things. I don’t think Dot is saying her feelings are CAUSED by trauma, but that the trauma needs to be addressed before the attraction can be pursued in a healthy way. That is absolutely NOT was Dorothy was saying, so she definitely didn’t “hit the nail on the head”, but there’s at least a kernel of truth to it in that she definitely does have trauma.
No, I don’t really either. I feel like despite her being more or less over Joyce her insecurities and faux-rivalry with Dorothy would make Becky spiral pretty hard about it. And I don’t want Joe to take “it doesn’t matter, she’ll leave anyway, so fuck it” as his takeaway from trying to be decent with Joyce. Walky also doesn’t deserve to be jerked around, but he seems to have women lining up for him so he’ll be fine — so long as he doesn’t actually think about it.
The first comment that finally takes everyone into account equally
Becky’s inclusion is a bit disproportionate though, isn’t it? Why would she spiral about any of this? She’s not dating anyone involved.
You really think Becky will be 100% cool with “my best friend, who I pined after, who rejected me on the grounds that she didn’t see me that way… is now cheating on her boyfriend with a girl I’m at best on neutral ground with”?
It’s entirely plausible that Becky has a hard time in a “what, so you’ll be with girls for HER but not for YOUR BEST FRIEND SINCE FOREVER” way, despite being happy with Dina.
No, I don’t really think that, which is why I didn’t say it.
Taffy said Becky’s inclusion was a bit disproportionate, Matthew Davies said she’d “spiral pretty hard about it”.
Lots of middle ground between “spiral hard” and “be 100% fine”, you know?
I also said she’s not dating anyone involved, so by
the exhibited logic, I must also have said she thinks nobody should date anybody, or maybe that Becky specifically thinks nobody involved is worthy of dating.
I also forget from time to time that Taffy’s entire thing here is interacting in a way that makes my teeth itch, and I really shouldn’t interact because that’s a me problem.
Well, scratch your teeth and drink some vodka.
Honestly sometimes folks just rub each other the wrong way and that’s fine. Getting my RSD (rejection sensitivity dysphoria) under control has been a literal game-changer in my life, it’s great to be able to say, “This person finds me annoying, or vice versa, and that’s just part of life. We should interact less” without feeling horrible anxiety about it.
Yep. Something about the way Taffy posts I always read as approximately 2000% more hostile and trollish than probably intended.
At least the whiskey’s cheaper in Canada.
I’m fine with it so long as Joyce talks to Joe if he’d be okay with a polycule before they try and kiss and/or fuck each other again (especially now that they both acknowledge that the laundry mutual masturbation thing was, in fact, sex; that their plan was derailed was very lucky for the both of them). After Joe went out of his way to talk to Dorothy about her crush on Joyce, showing incredible kindness and grace while doing so, the two of them hooking up behind his back would be an enormous betrayal of Joe’s trust by the both of them and would pretty much poison any relationship the girls could have afterwards permanently.
On the other hand it’d be JUICY drama
If she can’t hook up with Joyce, Ruth is currently single.
There are DOZENS of us.
Ladies, now is not the time for a lesbian power moment
-Leslie, probably
Leslie has never said its not time for that. Ever.
I feel like Leslie and Daisy could be the Sapphic Shoulder angel and demon pair. Sitting on Dorothy, not whispering but yelling in her ear.
Leslie’s whole Deal™ is trying to be a voice of reason to a bunch of kids, and I can’t see her encouraging two girls to explore each other’s bodies in the middle of what is rapidly becoming a police escalation
like there’s a time and a place for this stuff, y’all
I wanna have a Lesbian Power Moment!
IF THEY STAY THERE COULD BE TROUBLLLLE
BUT IF THEY GO IT COULD BE DOUBLLLLLE
This indecision’s bugging me.
(Esta indecisión me molesta)
I chose to believe this translates to mean that you are bothered by the fact you haven’t decided whether to molest a mollusk.
I’d probably fuck a sufficiently sexy and sentient mollusk that gave informed consent, but I draw the line at molesting one. I’m already gonna get enough side-eye for the interspecies part, no need to muddy the waters further.
Someone else who decided to leave is also at the exit, just off-screen, and has already said, “Excuse me” to them, which they missed. In about two seconds, the person is just going to duck under their dramatically clasped hands to get by. There may be easier ways, but it’s what they’re going with.
If the next comic is them getting interrupted from kissing by someone bumrushing past them to get out the gate (Mary? A rando preferably?) I’ll die laughing. Lowkey a sucker for that goofy trope.
No, no. Because Mary is counter-protesting, not protesting, she is sure that the announcement doesn’t apply to her.
I kind of want her to be surprised that the announcement does apply to her, but then she’d be on-panel again so never mind.
You think a cop isn’t going to see her, and immediately high-five her before drop-kicking some decent people, and then blasting a “less lethal” grenade canister directly into some poor kid’s skull?
Fash recognizes Fash. They’re all on the same side. They don’t have infighting the way that people with real, concrete beliefs do. They know what each other look like, and they punch in every other direction.
A cop is going to see her holding a sign, not read it, and tase her into submission. “Fash recognizes fash” is a cute phrase, but has never fit into the overreaction of cops to a protest – of any sort.
It’s Carla. “Hey, let me in, I finally got a good prank to pull on Mary!”
“He’s been trying so very hard to be good to me.” Being smitten gets Joyce talking like a Victorian era noblewoman.
Seriously, girl’s gettin’ floral over here.
chinhanding intensifies
I hope Joyce and Dorothy stay safe, and if they eventually get together, they end their relationships with their boyfriends first.
Also I hope Jocelyne and Asma and everyone else staying inside the fence makes it through this ok.
Y’all know you can cheat on your boyfriends on the other side of the fence and save yourself a hospital bill and a jail time, yeah? (and no, I know that strictly speaking holding your best friend’s hand and talking about how you should go back to your partner while choosing to stay is not cheating, despite being the plot of like 20% of love songs, but I’m talking about whatever happens after this.)
Like I’m 99% sure this is gonna end up with them kissing and becoming the face of the protest on accident which will infuriate several key side characters (Roz, Asma, maybe others) since they weren’t even actually there for the protest and don’t care about what’s happening. Joe will break up with Joyce, Sarah will break up with Tony (who will support his dad and the university while Sarah obviously supports Joyce), it’ll start them on the path to getting together, Walky crashes out not just because Dorothy cheated on him with Joyce after dictating the relationship for so long but also because she just up and disappeared on him and got arrested (which like, he’s not morally angry at her for that stuff, that’s just a scary scary thing to happen to your gf who you know on some level is spiraling) and they break up.
I am unsure how Becky plays into this other than possibly being upset that Joyce came out of the closet more explosively than her (being on national news). Hank has entirely too much to process. I am also unsure how Carla’s arc resolves or if it does.
All my predictions laid out, I mid-key hate this storyline lol. Not least of all because this is just like… a really weird choice of backdrop for romantic confessions. It totally makes sense narratively and dramatically, just emotionally feels weird for me idk.
It’s okay. It leads to Joe and Sarah getting together.
Also hell freezes over and the sun rising in the west.
You know, I was in Santa Barbara once looking west into the Pacific ocean with the mountains behind me, and then I suddenly realized the sun was setting in the wrong direction.
Me when I screw up my sleep schedule again.
I mean, they’ve already cheated really. They both tacitly consented to a sexual act, even if they were prevented from doing so by circumstances they really should’ve seen coming.
Oh, well.
Might as well make out sloppy style in front of the riot police.
There should be a poll for that.
I mean, yes, they consented to be dirty cheaters and were laundryblocked, but because they were luckily blocked from cheating, there’s still time for them to realize how shitty that would’ve been and to take another path. Whether they WILL realize that, on the other hand…
Hell no. Only in the Zhodani Empire can you be prosecuted for what you thought about doing. J. Carter admitted to committing adultery in his heart may times, but was he guilty? (Yeah lemme know if that counts, AFAF. Does conspiracy to boink counts if there is no actual boinking?)
I’m much too unmotivated to go searching for the section of the Bible about committing whatever in your heart. And i’m even too lazy to go searching to see if Conspiracy to Boink is taken as a band name.
All of us old enough to have read candidate Jimmy Carter’s Playboy interview (in one of the greatest issues ever, tbh) remember that one
Now there’s a deep cut. (Dirty turban-wearing
JoesZhos!)You can however be prosecuted under most laws for making a plan and taking action to carry it out. Which they did.
Now, one of them could have had a last minute change of heart when faced with the reality of what they were about to do (like Dorothy did the night before), so we’re not at quite 100%, but this definitely counts as attempted cheating.
So…they didn’t cheat?
Nope. Only guilty of tacit agreement to cheat within carefully defined parameters
Correct.
Clearly I don’t understand monogamy is if y’all are telling me this would fly in your relationships.
(I’m not even a relationship paladin! This was just a set up for a joke about how the might as well just bone.)
Would it fly? I mean it depends on the level of honesty. I’m not monogamous but my wife sure is. It’s been pretty clear that some of my ways of expressing affection to others doesn’t really make her uncomfortable but ‘not knowing it is happening’ does. We have some really clear ground rules and if I think I broke them I’m supposed to tell her and work it out with her. It’s all about boundries and communication and defining what your partner does and doesn’t want to know and what they are okay with.
The problem with Joyce and Dorothy is always their lack of ground rules setting in their own relationships due to their lack of self honesty.
Don’t get me wrong, I absolutely consider this cheating and if someone did to my daughter what Dorothy and Joyce are doing to their boyfriends, I’d tell her to leave them, I just know most the comment section apparently doesn’t and I don’t feel like hashing an argument out again about it when I have bigger things on my mind rn.
Both characters have made it clear they think cheating is abhorrent. The initial laundry scene was when both of them were single and at this point they’re both deep in denial of their feelings for each other so they’ve rationalized it as “just masturbation and my bestie just happens to be there.” Does that change what they’re doing? No, it’s unfair to Joe and Wally no matter what, but I think there’s still a gap between that and “let’s just make out because who cares at this point right?”
Is it really cheating if you’re in denial about it being cheating?
Oh my god! Two teenagers held hands and looked at each other, then admitted they were horny! Stone them for such adultery!!
Im lit so tired of this storyline
I don’t anticipate you being correct on this, but damn would that be some drama. Sharing a kiss as they’re tackled by police, image making headlines? That would just be so much (especially for an anti-war protest — that’s the kind of image you’d see spread a lot more if it was a gay rights protest, it might not tug the heartstrings the same way here). Probably too much for this comic but we’ll see.
You forgot the other drama–if Hank sees it, it’s perfectly possible Carol will see it, too. Her daughter macking on another girl at a left-wing protest against God’s Chosen People (whom it isn’t in any way discriminatory to block from joining clubs, because they shouldn’t be here, they should be in Bulmeria where they belong)? Oh, that reaction might very well be worth the price of admission (that being all the potential radioactive drama fallout you described).
“since they weren’t even actually there for the protest and don’t care about what’s happening”
I hate this comment, but it makes 100% sense. They kissing and get arrested is the worst scenario ever.
“Walky crashes out not just because Dorothy cheated on him with Joyce after dictating the relationship for so long but also because she just up and disappeared on him and got arrested (which like, he’s not morally angry at her for that stuff, that’s just a scary scary thing to happen to your gf who you know on some level is spiraling) and they break up.”
Yo this is a really fair take and I’m with Walky on this one.
Girls, have you considered polyamory?
This would be my hope too if Dorothy didn’t aggressively dislike Joe
She doesn’t have to date Joe.
Yeah, I was gonna say. Polycules don’t necessarily mean everyone is dating one another.
Can Joe and Walky at least bro out for a proper polycycle?
That’s true. Dorothy would still crash out if she had to “share Joyce” with Joe though.
True, but I feel like the people involved have to at least *like* eachother, Dorothy’s been clear in her long time dislike for Joe (warrented, considering what he was like through High School through to Mid October(?)) and Joe’s own hangups about monogamy would probably make things complicated to untangle or boundaries to be set. Not saying it’s impossible, just with the people involved it would be harder than I think they are currently able to pull off.
Yeah, I’ve definitely had some metamour’s that I could not stand work out fine. It makes it harder, but if everyone can communicate like an adult it doesn’t gotta be a thing.
…
On second thought maybe poly isn’t a good idea here.
Absolutely, the “if everyone can communicate like adults” clause is the real sticking point for DoA right now.
Correct! Joe can merely be her boyfriend-in-law. She only has to see him on major holidays every other year.
Have we gotten a poly couple in the comic so far?
Not in the main cast, but Sierra, Mandy and Grace are in a poly relationship.
There’s Gramandierra, but they’re not exactly major characters.
THEY’RE GOING TO KISS AGGHHH
Will this be the comic that pushes me over the edge into subscribing to the Patreon?
Stronger than my desire to subscribe Patreon is my
brokencredit card.Yeah, Dorothy and Joyce are staying put, aren’t they.
As is “Jocye”, for that matter. (God, I love tag typos.)
Joyce is spelled wrong in the tags. Unless Jocye is the name of her evil clone
I didn’t even notice that until now.
Anti-Joyce?
Somebody turn up the Girl in Red, please!
This tension is going to kill me.
They’re going to kiss. And the fucking cops are going to close the fence.
I don’t know which one will happen first but this is it, chat. This is the sequence. I can feel it in my old queer bones.
Yyyyup.
YES… HA HA
HA… YES!
I admire your commitment to the bit.
polyculllle
Oh come OOOOOOONNNNNNNNNN
Tag Typo! Is this like when a coin is minted with an error and becomes way extra rare to collectors? Will physical prints of this comic include the tag typo until Willis fixes it?
(meant as celebratory of a rare event, sorry if it feels like piling on)
o boy. Well, I don’t want to stand in the way of happy romances or even shortlived attractions, whatever the case may be. Kiss if you want, ladies.
I’m sure you know that getting into a relationship will only break the hearts of a guy who’s dedicating himself to being a good boyfriend instead of being a lecherous manslut, one rather clueless but good natured dweep who gave up a promising relationship to be with one of you, not to mention one best friend who’ll likely take this as a total backstabbing.
Quite possibly your freedom too from the looks of things.
But I’m sure it’ll all be worth it in the end.
Why would Dorothy’s best friend take this as a stab in the back? She’s holding her hand right now.
I’m glad I’m not the only one who thinks Becky will spiral if they do get together.
they absolutely will.
For as much as Becky genuinely loves Dina she is also absolutely NOT over Joyce at all.
My only hope I’m holding out is that this storyline can’t actually implode THAT MANY of the existing stable relationships in the strip, not because it shouldn’t, but because if fucking every main character’s life falls apart from this at the same time, that’s way too much Sad Equity for the strip to be readable. Something good has to be happening to at least some of the cast, or reading the strip would become full-time depressing?
Probably not! That’s kind of the nature of college relationships.
I will say that like, realizing you are not straight is a pretty good reason for reevaluating your existing relationship structures. Would it suck for Joe and Walky? Yes, absolutely. But if both of these characters are *actually* realizing that they are a) not straight and b) *actually* interested in each other, they would be doing their respective partners a greater disservice by pretending that isn’t the case.
I disagree with your assessment that Walky “gave up” his relationship with Lucy for Dorothy. As I recall, Lucy was the one who dumped him. He never did raise a finger for that relationship either, so it could hardly be called “promising”.
Joe instogated dorothys feelings and knows he’s pushing them together, walky has been oblivious at best and an asshole at worst for a long time, and becky would cheer from the rooftops to learn joyce might be gay, because lesbians are always happy to learn about more queer women, and becky isnt an incel who would be actually angry a girl chose another girl over her.
Just adding to the Becky thing, while yes, she’s not an Incel, it’s been shown a few times in past strips that she really isnt over her feelings for Joyce, so like a lot of people in the comments assume, there’s going to be some complicated feelings about “If only I had waited for Joyce to realise she wasn’t straight” or “What does Dorothy have that all these years I’ve been in love with Joyce can’t compare to?” spiral. That on top of her current character arc of “This fucking close to a meltdown over realising idendities, gender and sexuality can be fluid for some people and all the horrible things I believe my sexuality has caused in the last few months was for nothing if I could just be with a man” would probably reach a boiling point if “Straight-as-an-arrow” (Note: Arrows are very wobbly when shot) Joyce coming out as “Actually not that straight” would bring.
First, Walky didn’t give up a promising relationship to be with Dorothy. Lucy dumped him for having racist parents, and then he got together with Dorothy.
Second, while I feel for Becky and how Joyce being romantically interested in another woman would make her feel, her crush does not give her a permanent veto on Joyce’s sexuality. The idea that Joyce can never be interested in another woman because of how it would hurt Becky is, frankly, really creepy.
Lucy didn’t dump him for having racist parents. She dumped him for not standing up to his racist parents.
Which, while she was correct to do so, Walky was also correct to not stand up to them. They are his abusers, and they control his money and his future. What the fuck was he supposed to do? Get disowned by his parents, get kicked out of school, and thus end up not dating Lucy, anyway?
Walky will have to stand up to his parents in a meaningful way someday; it’s sure as shit not safe for him to do it now, because he’s not mature enough to actually have the spine to weather that storm. He folds like a poker table the second his Mom’s tone changes even slightly; standing up to her with no follow-through, doesn’t actually improve the situation he’s in.
He’s better off just getting his college paid for, and then going NC once he knows he no longer needs their financial support. They’re awful people who don’t deserve to be interacted with, but right now, Walky cannot support himself.
Just to be fair to Walky, he did go call them out afterwards. Too late for Lucy and in a not very helpful context, but he did go do it. He’s had his moments of spine from time to time.
I don’t actually think Lucy was correct to break up with him for this or to expect him to directly confront them for her. That’s a hell of an ask. Serious even with parents who aren’t nearly as abusive as the Walkertons.
Mm, two things can be true at once, though.
It can both be not fair to expect Walky to stand up to his racist shitty parents and understandable for Lucy to decide she doesn’t want to be with someone who has shitty racist parents.
Both things are true.
Like it would be one thing if Lucy were white, and just demanding Walky stand up to his parents because it’s like, the macho thing to do. But she’s Black, and Walky’s shitty racist mom and his shitty enabling dad were shitty and racist to and about Lucy.
It’s okay that she decided the relationship wasn’t worth having to deal with that, especially since it was only one of the factors for the breakup.
First of all. The fence thing continues to be fucking ghoulish shit. What the actual fuck is wrong with these people. Clearly they need to be reminded who pays their bills.
Second of all wtf even is this conversation. If you were more honest with yourselves you’d probably be doing a better job at doing things right and feeling like you are respecting your existing relationships for goodness sake. It’s definitely your unwillingness to respect your personal feelings at this point that is causing issues.
this is mostly just me yelling at the screen at this point. Please do not take this as broader commentary lol.
Thank a combination of 60’s protest memories and eroding free speech norms post-9/11. I remember being told when I was an undergrad that my campus had “free speech zones” in the 2000’s and thinking that was some fascistic crap.
Yeah every fucker that voted for the patriot act needs to burn in hell. Really all went down hill the moment daddies court decided their son won the election instead of just fucking recounting.
Well I mean technically ‘it’s always been going down hill’ and you could blame any moment during gingrich, reagan or goldwater. But I feel it is at least fair to say it really started accelerating in a noticeable way at that point.
Yeah, most of the groundwork was laid by Nixon’s Southern Strategy and Reagan’s unholy alliance of Corporate America and the Moral Majority. Reagan also repealed the Fairness Doctrine, which really boosted Fox, and later on the more extreme right-wing echo chambers.
First red flag I think was Nixon not getting jail time. That’s the first time I can think of that “The president is above the law” really became clear.
This “ghoulish shit” has been around for a very, very long time. In theory we have the right to protest in the US, but in practice that right has often been ignored by the cops and other government authorities.
This country aint french enough. That’s the long and short of it. Got the ‘reign of terror’ part down tho for fuck sake so tired of these bastards for real.
Just kiss already
For real. One kiss. One. Completely harmless.
Fifteen cops were hospitalized after a pair of crazy blonde beat them up. There was much rejoicing.
[Distant] Yaaaay.
Hell yes.
ok I have been archive-binging and the long game on this is insane
just got to the bit where she has her first kiss with ethan because she saw dorothy kiss walky
she did it because she was jealous
jealous
of
whom
there’s so much more of this. just wild how it’s been played from the very start.
Yep. I don’t think it was planned from the start but it is extremely consistent with the text of the story from its beginning.
The goddamn title of this strip.
Just a coincidence, I’m sure.
Not to be a lesbian, haha but really I am happy for Joe and his personal growth, but the love between these two is so strong, I don’t think that’s sufficient reason for Joyce to keep that relationship, he’s got to want to change just for himself.
hmmm
Nah, Willis, good try. You almost caught me with this.
This behavior is perfectly acceptable for them to exhibit.
In fact I think they should do it more.
It would be very entertaining for me.
Y’know, when you zoom out and think about it too much, the way this storyline is connecting “Dorothy and Joyce consider breaking up with their boyfriends to date each other” and “A real world genocide” is pretty weird.
The metaphor here is Joyce and Dorothy choosing between going back to their normal lives or doing a scary new thing (dating each other/getting arrested protesting) but is dating Joe really as bad as tacitly endorsing the real-life murder of aid workers? If she were dating Danny, maybe, but Joe’s not THAT bad.
I… I don’t think dating Joe is being compared to endorsing the murder of aid workers.
Obviously Willis isn’t trying to say that dating Joe = Supporting Israel because that’s absolutely insane, but this strip is very directly connecting “Should Joyce and Dorothy stay at the protests” with “Should Joyce and Dorothy break up with their boyfriends and hook up”, and the implications of that connection are funny/weird to think about too much while also being a setup line for me to dunk on Danny.
Okay.
I’ve had this critique since Jocelyn showed back up and had that pep talk with Dorothy. The genocide is serving as a background to these characters’ personal arcs. On one hand it makes total sense because it’s literally impossible to tell a story right now that isn’t about genocide, I think, but on the other it’s also really highlighting how privileged these characters are, in a way that, to be fair, is currently central to Dorothy’s arc in a way that I’m more satisfied with after she acknowledged her cop energy.
The major takeaway here is that Dorothy was every bit the reactionary Joyce was at the start of this comic and they’re both pretty new to even trying to be better, and the fact that that’s something the story is highlighting is actually really cool.
It’s really odd that the genocide is being used as a backdrop metaphor for relationship drama, but would you rather Mary and Carla got into an argument over Israel’s right to exist? Can you IMAGINE the comment section?
Like, DoA is a political-ish comic in a college, so it’s hard to ignore the student protests. But it’s also a dramedy webcomic written nearly a year in advance where villainous characters are extremely zany and wacky so it’s maybe not the best venue to discuss an extremely controversial and rapidly evolving real-world issue. So even though some of the implications of these metaphors are very strange if you think about them too long, I’m also trying to give Willis some slack and acknowledge they’re in a no-win situation here.
Oh yeah, I totally agree. No-win situations are the most interesting thing about webcomics as a medium, IMO. It’s trivially true that:
1. Both Joyce and Dorothy do come from stocks of reactionaries who are directly responsible for the Gaza Holocaust,
2. Their status as privileged college students within the imperial core isolates them from the worst effects of that while itself,
3. This status is a direct benefit of that kind of warmongering which absolutely produced these two people,
4. It nonetheless plays itself out in their personal lives in ways that are personally significant.
Which actually makes DoA a direct critique of aristocracy, like a lot of classic literature. It’s not political-ish, it’s about an evangelical homeschool kid and her best friend who wants to grow up to be Hillary Clinton and it makes no sense to continue telling that story in a world with the Gaza Holocaust in it without in some way acknowledging the Gaza Holocaust and nothing can really be equal to that task.
So, that’s going to be as satisfying and interesting as it is going to be. Any approach is going to have its pros and cons. Ultimately the Gaza Holocaust is not about white girls at a state college in Indiana but this webcomic is.
I feel like the win situation would’ve been to have the protest at another college and having Jocylene reintroduced by getting arrested over there and then Dorothy having to examine her surface level view of politics and deciding that she does have a place in them, just not in this cozy sheltered bubble that she still resides in (as opposed to that half-hearted side comment a strip or two ago.) Then she can go join some less violent protests, be irritated that they go so well because it’s not the authentic deal, and then Roz is like “wtf Dorothy.” Or even Raidah, but Roz is just Raidah with sincerity and a love life. Meanwhile Joyce has to deal with having to get her sister out of jail without outing her to their dad, maybe turns to Carla who is like “1.) Wtf you can’t just use a rich person,” and “2.) How dare you” who then gets backed up by Mary who then has rich guilt and Booster guilts her into using her trust fund to bail Joyce’s sister out, Carla has to address how privilege is what saved this day and how many people are going through bullshit because of her parents, maybe decided to start a nonprofit down the line with Dorothy heading it. Joyce and Dorothy talk about their experiences with the storyline, Dorothy opens up more about her trauma, Joyce talks about how much she needed Dorothy, they get caught up in the moment, kiss then freak out.
Then again, maybe that rewrite is too boring. Idk. It’s just really, really weird to have a conversation about genocide and privilege while two middle class (possibly upper middle class) girls are using it as a backdrop to discovering their feelings for each other while not interacting with the protests in any meaningful way. Even going to find Jocelyne felt completely shoehorned in and unnecessary, especially since it amounted to nothing since Jocelyne is going to get arrested and subsequently found out by Hank regardless.
Honestly my only real problem is the story hasn’t actually shown anyone who’s more normal being a zionist
Cause yea zionists are awful but having the only zionist be Mary is a cop out(very real with christian zionism) but there’s a reason even talking about the apartheid state was so difficult for so long
Where’s the person who’s been really normal the whole strip turning around and getting really defensive about war crimes
That’d be an interesting move, I’ll give it that. Hard to make it satisfying though. Like if it turns out Lucy and Jacob are genociders and they just have to keep going to school with them for the rest of the run of the comic. I’m not sure that would work, narratively.
Yeah any sympathetic character would then have to work on, uh, not being a genocidaire. And it’s a pretty predictable arc. It’s feasible for any given character, say, Ruth (who hasn’t stated any opinion about the matter) to go “Hey I used to support Bulmeria’s minority rule but wait now they’re actively ethnically cleansing the opposition, that’s wack,” but I don’t see a lot of point in that. Or they could go on and vocally support it and cite misinformation from Times of Bulmeria and deny there was ever any apartheid but then they’d quickly get a cold shoulder from both the readers and their school mates.
That is what Dorothy is doing.
Is she? We’re seeing her change her mind about her uncritical belief in institutions and the goodness of government, but I don’t think she’s said anything about Bulmeria beyond protesting to Mary.
The most she’s said is “You can be against bombing civilians when both terrorists and governments do it.”, which I guess somehow means she supports bombing civilians, despite every word of that sentence being explicitly against civilians getting bombed.
I guess because she used the word “both”, it automatically means she’s sitting on a fence and refusing to take a stance.
Oh no, let’s not relitigate how Dot should have wasted time and energy on asking Mary to consider a shade of nuance.
Absolutely let’s not. Mary’s not worth the effort it would take to explain a detailed political stance, and Dorothy was right to keep it simple.
I mean, not every Zionist is sitting on a fence wrapped in a magen david talking about the right to exist and the children of darkness. For the past 70 years your average mildly “progressive” Democrat has been as much of a Zionist as your average evangelical school shooter and nobody said anything about it until last year. It barely even came up during either of Bernie Sanders’s campaigns and most Bernie people ended up thinking Tulsi Gabbard was this demsoc girlboss instead of a crazed fascist warmonger who Trump would eventually name Director of National Intelligence.
The point is that the average, so-called “progressive” American has been a Zionist and that is exactly what Dorothy is.
A totally fair reading of this comic is that everyone in it except Jocelyn, Asmaa, and Carla is currently a Zionist.
Yeah that is fair. Even Roz and Malaya could be Zionists as far as we know. And I figure I can take your word for how Zionist average Americans lean, the ones I know definitely tend more anti-imperialist but that’s of course a somewhat limited selection of individuals.
I mean, also, Dorothy. That’s Dorothy’s arc right now, is realising she is that and doesn’t want to be.
The camera turns to Dorothy’s dorm wall and its covered in “I love being a zionist” merchandise
You know she has that I’m With Her merch.
Oh definitely, the most true fact about Dorothy
“The point is that the average, so-called “progressive” American has been a Zionist and that is exactly what Dorothy is.”
Normie Liberal Democratic voters were always a bit less pro Israel than Republicans, but somewhere around 2016 they started turning against Israel (partially due to West Bank settlements, but mostly IMO because Netanyahu was becoming more partisan/Repubilcan). Liberals flipped from “Israel > Palestine” to “Palestine > Israel” in 2023, and this has only accelerated since. Liberals now support Palestine over Israel 59-21 (Source: https://news.gallup.com/poll/657404/less-half-sympathetic-toward-israelis.aspx)
That was a big part of why the Democratic establishment lost in the New York Primary. They still think “Israel bad” is the fringe leftist position when the normie I’m With Her liberal nowadays wants Israel destroyed and the Jews expelled apparently.
I don’t think that last is really true. The shift is real, but it’s not that important to most Americans, who are more concerned about local issues. And it’s more that normie liberal Dems have always mostly wanted the conflict to stop and some form of reasonable solution to end the killing, whether or not that’s actually practical. The shift has been more in who’s seen as responsible for the killing than from “Wipe out the Palestinians” to “Wipe out the Jews”.
Considering the massive rise in random ‘Free Palestine’ nutters trying (and sometimes succeeding) to murder Jews, plus this comment section, I’d say that having Israel destroyed and the Jews expelled (or murdered) is baseline leftie/liberal thought at this point.
You don’t get stuff like this unless it’s become normalized in society. Previous iterations on synagogue shooters were generally right-leaning conspiracy theorists, now it’s people who’re attacking Jews because that’ll ‘free Gaza’.
There are nutters, but really the average liberal position is “Israel should stop committing genocide and I haven’t really thought about what happens after that” because the only options are “Palestine is a free nation with current borders” (Meaning Israel gets to keep the land), “Palestine gets all the land in Israel back” (which in practice means ethnic cleansing and/or genocide of the Jews, many of whom have lived there for two or three generations at this point), or “Hamas and Israel learn to share and be friends” (Which is too naive even for liberals)
Of course, in DoA they’re protesting the BULMERIAN Genocide, which is presumably more clear-cut
On the other hand, we don’t know for sure that Bulmeria and [unnamed other party] aren’t equally in the wrong, since they’re equally fictional. If we wanted, we could totally speculate that they’re engaged in a mutual extermination war and the fake version of IU is profiteering on both sides of the conflict. It’s already weird enough for a Midwestern American college to be giving its funds to a foreign military, may as well take it further for extra sauce.
That might have become the standard position on the activist left, but I don’t believe for a second that the normie lib position is “Israel must be destroyed” – any more than a year or so ago it was “Destroy Palestine.”
Glad someone else noticed. You can always very quickly tell in these conversations who is more into saving Palestinian lives and who is more into proclaiming why nearly every Jew in the world is now a valid target for violent hatred if not murder. The abortion-clinic-bomberization of left activism in the last 18 months is the most disappointing political shift I’ve ever seen.
I don’t consider it “normal” to support a genocidal apartheid state, but apparently millions of voters in this country were willing to ignore that their preferred party’s candidate supported genocide for over a year, so I guess I don’t really know what normal is.
Everyone who has ever voted there has always done that for the entire existence of the country.
Yea, we can talk about how things should be, what normal should be but that doesn’t really change what’s currently considered normal
It certainly sucks that there are enough people in this country who want concentration camps, secret police, and ethnic cleansing to purposely and knowingly elect something that’s willing to do it all. Of course, now we’ve got the liars who say they didn’t know what they were voting for, but nobody believes them.
Me when the fascist degeneration of bourgeois imperialism is the policy of a single politician and not an inevitable decades-long process going back to before any of us were born.
Oh, shut the hell up.
Bruno is 100% correct, the Democrats have shown much of what is happening now would’ve happened under them. They support genocide, want trans people to lose rights, have openly stated they prefer a white rapist in office to a lefty brown person, and are joining republicans in passing death laws that are going to make it impossible for citizens to eat just so they can cut their own taxes. Democrats are fascists, theyre just better at hiding it.
K
That’s why the only leftist position possible is to vote for Trump.
This is the stupidest thing I have ever read.
I’m sorry, what Democrats voted for the stupid BBB? What Democrats wanted Iran to be bombed without consent from Congress? What Democrats wanted Gaza to be turned into a resort? What Democrats wanted many social relief programs reduced to nothing. It’s crap like this that put the Republicans in power. Now the groups that complained about the Dems want them to save them. Which is ridiculous. At this point I hope everyone has the day they voted for (and if you didn’t vote and were able to then you have not right to complain). I swear that single issue voters are some of the dumbest people on the planet, constantly cutting their nose to spite their face.
Megan, I can only hope your post is an attempt at satirizing Bruno’s non-stop “Dems are just as bad” rants.
Well_Played, I live in Brasil, but nonetheless I know more than you about your own country.
Bernie Sanders introduced a bill to stop the President from taking military action without consent from Congress, this was a time of a Democratic majority, it didn’t pass.
Joe Biden, for starters, sent the Zionist entity weapons at a far greater pace than any other American President. Kamala Harris refused to reverse this policy when confronted repeatedly.
Bill Clinton campaigned for President on a platform of “ending wellfare as we know it”. His wife Hillary wrote an essay in support of this starring a fictional Latina welfare mom named Rhonda Costa.
I did not vote in your stupid country because I live in Brasil and because only genociders were running. Your country doesn’t even let Brasil have our own elections half the time, let alone vote in yours.
you can vote democrat while still acknowledging that they’re complicit in all this. the better of two evils isn’t NOT EVIL dumbasses
@ Wellplayed, Chuck Schumer, John Fetterman of Pennsylvania, Catherine Cortez Masto, Brian Schatz, Dick Durbin, Kirsten Gillibrand, Gary Peters, Maggie Hassan, Jeanne Shaheen, and Angus King voted to advance the bill without amendment that would have personally saved my life. Shaheen and King later voted in favor of the bill. Take your damn eyes out of the sand.
That symbol says you do.
I think you meant this for Ukrainian Freikorps guy.
For some reason I couldn’t respond to your comment that was to mine but you say you live in Brazil so you have no idea how this is affecting us. I work for the government, specifically in disaster recovery and due to the shit that this current administration is doing we are unable to help people who need it. Not only have they cut so many programs that helped people with paying for these disaster loans they want to cut the aid that keeps them living such as Medicaid and food assistance. Also wanting to limit power of work unions so we have less stable decent paying jobs. So you don’t know jack shit about what’s going on here. Say all you want about the Dems but they weren’t trying to set us back 50 years. Ironically the people who are getting hurt the most are the ones who voted for him (I know I deal with them and a lot of them complain about regret but hey they’re getting the day they voted for). You want to talk about war then why would anyone vote for the person who called their countries shitholes? Why would they vote for a person who has Nazis supporting him? No one could be this stupid to think that the US would be in the shape that’s it’s in now with Kamala as the president. Too many morons wanted to vote (or not vote at all) on a single issue and couldn’t see the forest for the trees and now the whole forest is on fire. Good job.
hahahahahha wow i cant imagine what its like to have an american government cut social services in your country. how do you people have no shame at all when you say shit like this? do you know what people in my country do when we need social services? we die. we send you all our coffee and our cocoa and we die.
lyndon B. johnson, a democrat, was in power in 1964 when the US overthrew brasil’s government to install a fascist dictator who ruled for 20 years with consistent bipartisan support from your useless ancestors that entire time.
LEARN SHAME.
yes YOUR country would be better off if it were under a more competent imperialist leadership that can brainwash useless mooks like you into thinking you’re not genocidal monsters whose idea of “well-off” is managing the imperial superprofits from turning the entire world into a conveyor belt so you can cheaply purchase consumer goods. but that is actually bad. that is bad when that happens and I don’t want it. it is good that your country is dying because the faster it dies the faster the rest of us can live in peace and actually develop our countries instead of just sending all our shit to you and dying.
It was already obvious that accelerationism is just the Rapture with its gleeful vision of mass death of the sinners, you don’t need to point it out again.
eat dirt, zionist
There *can’t* be any Zionists in this storyline because while “Bulmeria” is a blatant stand-in for Israel it’s not actually Israel and thus has nothing to do with Zionism
It’s weird as a narrative thing, but also, it’s a pretty good description of the college protest scene. Activists care about the issues of course, but they’ve also got their own messy lives going on.
This is the thing I don’t like about it.
If you’re gonna make it THIS thinly veiled, just go all the way. What, are you worried the comments section will be upset? They’re already talking about the ‘imperial core’ and how Dorothy is descended from ‘reactionaries’.
Like wtf does that even mean? “stocks of reactionaries”? Because she’s white? Because she’s partly Jewish? Catholic?
Like, I can kind of see Joyce, since her immediate family could easily have been part of the “We need a new Israel to fulfill end-times prophecy” Christian Zionist thing, but how does Dorothy fit into this?
A couple of extremely hateful people are in chat spewing their usual empty venom, and calling everyone in sight a Zionist or genocide supporter is just the current way for them to tear others down. Their opinions don’t matter and we shouldn’t give them any consideration.
I know, but usually I can at least understand the talking points.
My words become easy to understand when you know who Hillary Clinton is.
Yes, yes, but have your wlw dilemma outside the fence, please
Wait….. did they REALLY not get outside of the fence before letting feeling happen? _REALLY!?!?!_ *head desks* I love these two dorks, but…..*flails* Dorks!!
Everyone is talking about how they need to leave the fence before having this dilemma, but they’re missing the point that if they leave the fence, there’s no excuse anymore. Holding hands not to lose each other. They go back to normal lives, have no excuse to do what they’re doing anymore. They’d have to either stop entirely, or fully admit to themselves what they’re doing, and I’m not sure they’re gonna do that yet. Or at least not admit that yet.
also, it would be much less Drama and we can’t have that.
I mean “their normal lives” implies that they’re gonna be forced into not being around each other. Dorothy’s been in a meltdown spiral for a while now, it’s not like they’re 1950s housewives.
Well, true, but try telling them that.
p.s. Yelling at the screen doesn’t seem to work.
I wonder how long the comments section would be if all readers were to discuss how they feel about the concept of cheating on b/friends! I haven’t gone back to check where we are on the spectrum of ‘a small number of people repeating themselves lots’ right thru to ‘everyone only comments on this once’…
It’s one of those topics that’s really hard to actually discuss, because if you don’t meet someone at their exact intensity on it, they’ll treat you like you personally cheated on them.
Well, possibly, chat can get like that. But I think people have largely disagreed reasonably politely here.
But yeah, I mean, it’s not like people are going to convince each other about deeply (or lightly) held morals. Nor are their views going to affect the outcome of a comic drawn a year ago. Nor are the fictional characters reading this. But maybe all this intensity needs somewhere to go. Chopping a heap of firewood, building something, doing art, having a really good bang… I can think of a binch of places the energy could usefully go!
I’m off to load up the fire…
I tend to recommend light household chores, if someone is getting especially worked up at me. Better they put a few shirts away than spew some nonsense.
Fully against it in real life, though there are exceptions in scenarios where there’s abuse. Abusive partners don’t deserve loyalty. IMHO if you feel that tempted to cheat, you should end your current relationship.
In fiction, I mostly find cheating plots boring. They’re almost all predicated on the viewer empathizing with uncontrollable sexual attraction, and I’m too ace to empathize, so it’s mostly just watching someone make terrible decisions for incomprehensible reasons in slow motion.
I still don’t actually want these two to cheat on their current partners because I’d rather everyone be happy in the long term, so I’m reading in a very similar mindset to watching a character in a horror movie go out alone at night to check suspicious noises: the same mixture of excitement, nerves, and dread.
I just also think it’s completely morally neutral for someone else to be like “yes! Cheat on Joe, Joyce!” because Joe is not my friend or even a real person, and he doesn’t actually have feelings.
^ should be some sort of conjunction up there, at the end of my first paragraph — “otherwise IMHO”… or something.
Honestly, the “in slow motion” aspect’s the worst part for me. Evidently, there are many non-aroace commenters who are still hanging onto every dramatic moment of Dorothy’s and Joyce’s barely-closeted romantic fumblings, but I’m just lost and have given up on having any opinion on the subject until it stops requiring the understanding of emotions some of us don’t have.
I’m not even ace afaik (I’ve always identified as bi), and I don’t get it. I’ve never once experienced uncontrollable lust. The very concept of it is kind of gross to me, it feels like those arguments people make about predatory and criminal behavior.
I’ve had crushes while with my husband. On women. On men sometimes, but mostly women. I told him about them immediately and then built boundaries while he teased me for having crushes. Never once in my mind did the thought of cheating on that sweet man ever cross it. And I guess Joe/Joyce is very young as a relationship, but they were very good friends beforehand. I wouldn’t want to hurt my friend that deeply :\.
I don’t think much of it is “uncontrollable lust”. For at least this kind of cheating (rather than Joe’s dad’s kind), it’s romance as much as lust. Falling for someone else and convincing yourself into thinking it’s okay for whatever excuse.
We know Joyce would never want to hurt Joe, so for me one of the pieces of narrative intrigue is how she’s rationalizing this in a way where he isn’t hurt.
The worst possibility, IMHO, is that on some level she just plain does not think she CAN hurt Joe here: that she still thinks of him as kind of a player, that she knows he has feelings for her but doesn’t think they’re serious. And that would be a combination of low self-esteem (remember how she was a combination of excited but also very teasing about it when he admitted both to having feelings for her in the first place and to think she’s a Hot Chick while they were exercising together?) and… not really listening to Joe when he talks.
But I can also see another possibility, that she might be overcompensating again for not being a fundamentalist Christian again — in this case, that she took the conversation she and Joe had about masturbation not being cheating and… tried to forcibly recategorize herself and him as not just being allowed to masturbate, but also not being monogamous. Because maybe monogamy is just something that was drilled into her by the cult she grew up in! Maybe all the cool college people are more casual about their relationships and Joe will expect her to experiment with Dorothy! Maybe the idea that he’s been carefully faithful to her would be as funny and strange to Joyce as the idea of him being attracted to her at all would.
So……. there’s a possibility!
See, I’m still very much interested here, because Willis has portrayed Joyce in a way where I don’t understand what’s going on in her head, but it’s a point of fascination rather than frustration.
But it probably helps that Joe and Joyce aren’t married with kids. I absolutely think being cheated on will(?) be a huge blow to him unless he and Joyce had some off-panel conversations about all of this, or he pulls an Amber-about-Danny-and-Ethan, where everyone involved, including the readers, were sure for years that she’d be heartbroken and spiral over a second boyfriend “leaving her for men” if they got together, and then she turned out to be too enthusiastic over the prospect of two boys she was attracted to kissing (and more).
Joe could make that hairpin turn, and even though I don’t think it’s likely (he’s talked to Dorothy AND to Joyce about this, albeit the latter obliquely, and he didn’t seem at all excited by the potential of his girlfriend and his BFF’s ex kissing)… I just feel like I have to keep acknowledging it’s a twist Willis has deployed before.
(I’m pretty sure Amber even had a red herring line at one point where she directly told Danny she was still insecure about being left for men!)
…and anyway, all of this has me still invested.
It’s not so much “will Joyce and Dorothy do the wrong thing here and cheat” (because they’ve already crossed that event horizon in every meaningful way save actually kissing — this is “attempted cheating, followed by a lot of handholding and continuing UST”), but…
— “how will Walky react to being right about what he definitely meant as a mean joke at Joyce’s expense for months” (Like with Joe, it’s possible he’ll turn out to be totally fine with this, but I have my doubts.)
— “will Joe tell Joyce this is okay with him because it’s actually okay, or because he thinks he has no right to say no”? (see: the way he talked to her about getting drunk for the first time with Dorothy — “I’m not mad. Or even jealous. I don’t think I get to feel jealous, not with my history”
)
— “what IS Joyce thinking? How is she rationalizing this, when previously she felt like even masturbating wasn’t okay?” (She told Joe about the Laundry Room incident at that point, and he sort of reassured her, but was also sort of distressed, so at the very least I feel like she misunderstood him if she thought he was, in THAT scene, giving her the green light for more mutual masturbation with Dorothy.)
— “how will Dorothy come to terms with her feelings for Joyce being real, and not just a trauma response after all?”
…so all of those questions sustain me just fine, where a simple question of whether or not these two were gonna be horny idiots would not have.
I don’t think Joe would even get to the “you cheated on me, I hate you because you cheated on me” point or anything negative that proceeds from that. Given what we know of Joe’s prior worldview, how he got here, and where he was a day ago on this topic (specifically offering to step aside for Dorothy), I think his reaction would much more likely be “you chose Dorothy over me, that is perfectly sensible for multiple reasons, and it proves that I am not deserving of real love.
Walky would probably take it worse, because he has at least some awareness that Dorothy coming back was for less-that-the-best reasons and probably limited time. Joe, on the other hand, had previously convinced himself he neither wanted nor could achieve lasting connection and was only good for (and only needed) transient fucks.
Walky crashing out would be the only good thing from a Dorothy/Joyce relationship istg. I just don’t think Dorothy and Joyce are good for each other because they feed each other’s worst character traits. In a way, I guess Dorothy/Walky and Joyce/Joe do that too, now that I’ve opened my eyes to how good Sarah/Joe could be (and how Amber/Walky didn’t actually seem to do that despite being Garbage Skow.)
I love Dorothy (genuinely one of my favorite characters, I need to clarify because everything after this will sound like mad hate), but if I get nothing else, I need Walky to crash out on her, she needs a dose of actual reality (not Raidah’s BS), she needs to be told that she’s kind of shitty to her partners consistently. Someone needs to tell her or she’s going to smother and control Joyce too before getting bored and running off with Amazigirl.
Walky frankly deserves to crash out, he’s one of the few characters who’s actually become *more* of a dickhead over time
….
Actually “Joyce vs. Walky” sounds like a fun and unexplored idea.They were One True Ship in the Walkyverse and barely acquaintances in DoA. Let them fight to the death! (until Amazi-Girl interrupts them)
Maybe true, but I don’t think that’s actually better. For either Joe or Walky.
INTERLOCKING FINGERS!
I repeat, we have an INTERLOCKING FINGERS SITUATION!
No offense but I feel this is the clumsiest way to do this very gay story
While I’m all for whatever’s happening between Dorothy and Joyce are having right now, can they do it on the other side of the gate, y’know, before they’re arrested?
Ugh just make them kiss already Willis. Personally I really liked the Joyce/Joe ship, so this slow plunge of the knife into my heart is so much worse. I’m sitting here like Schwarzenegger in Predator: “Go on, kill me!”
Same. I don’t want to see a Joe/Joyce breakup, but I have set sail on the Joyce/Dorothy ship, so…
(Idc about Dorothy/Walks, I don’t think those two particularly fit together.)
Walky idolizes her and she uses him as a dildo. Not the best relationship no.
I feel like I could unironically use that meme of Dorothy being like “I love Walky, he’s just more of a pet to me,” and it would be entirely accurate. He’s a source of comfort and amusement, she just never seems to actually care about his input or feelings. Like how I don’t ask my cat about moving, I just put her in a carrier and go “All right girl, new house, find a crevice and hide for three days while I kill the monsters.”
Dorothy is like that with her relationships lol.
If she’s not the smartest person in the room she’ll leave and find the one where she is.
Girls. Girls. GIRLS YOU CAN BE IN LOVE OUTSIDE OF THE FENCE
It’s giving Tatu.
Mildly embarrassed it took me this long to get the double meaning of the title.
LET THEM BE GAY!!
Please don’t do something stupid like staying in for the wrong stupidest reason, bring your sapphic drama back to the dorm, girls.
I really can’t stay…
Baby it’s cold outside…
There’s a protest today…
Baby it’s cold outside…
I think we’re both gay…
Baby it’s… and here come the police.
I knew someone would get here eventually!
Y’know, this arc specifically has gotten me onto the Joyce/Dorothy ship. Give it to me now.
Meanwhile this arc has made me dislike it even more. It’s getting boring at this point.
Okay, fine, one explicit hand-holding (oh phew so spicy!) inside the protest fencing. Then getcher butts outside and be good with your boyz. And THEN get permissions from yer boyz for various polycule patterns. (try out many. it’s fer science.)
Joyce > Joe: Fine and all. Cute in a comphet sorta way.
Not in a million years.
Dorothy > Walky: Meh.
Joyce > Dorothy: Yeah, this is normal.
Joe > Dorothy: Won’t make it through one date.
Joe > Walky: Bert & Ernie without the sex appeal.
Joyce > Walky:
Joe Dorothy: Optimal.
Joe Walky: How’d we end up here?
Joyce Walky: If cartoons are on.
Joe Walky: Surprisingly balanced. Rogue meta.
Joe < Joyce Dorothy > Walky: Cop-out, but okay.
Joe < Joyce Dorothy and Walky: Unbalanced but agreeable
Joyce > Dorothy > Walky > Joe: Sleeper hit of the summer
alas, you gotta use like & + ; on one of the brackets to make that work instead of become invisible
<> is my fave (lt for less than, gt for greater than)
you must be fun at parties
Replied to the wrong one, eh?
No. I replied to Steamweed. Seeing two fictional characters being gay at a protest and responding: “No, go home and take care of the menfolk” is incredibly boring behavior. Especially when one of the men in question practically set the two girls up himself and the other one is an immature loser who is actively insulting the women just off-screen.
Yes, how dare people be annoyed that the guy who’s entire trauma is based on cheating, watch a bunch of people cheer his being cheated on. And god’s forbid anyone gets annoyed that the other one is going to get cheated on, after she dragged him back into a relationship after she helped push him out of his last one.
Yeah, on the same page exactly, that’s super weird to be annoyed by. Glad we’re all in agreement!
Also, deeply misogynist views of how these relationships are working. “dragged him back” “pushed him out of his last one” okay, men don’t have autonomy, they can only be supported or spurned by women, whatever, why should women get to tell their own stories? normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal
It’s not deeply misogynist to think Walky himself, as his own person, idolizes Dorothy to the point he’d rethink his relationship with Lucy, when he did so TWICE thanks to her “advice.”
Specifically since they only broke up because Dorothy wanted to break up, and Walky’s stance was “You were too good for me, I deserve this.”
And really, this whole whitewashing of two new bisexuals being selfish cheaters pisses me off to no end *as* a bisexual who has had to deal with “Bisexuals are all cheaters” rhetoric on top of the “Bisexuals are gay gay gay” thing.
And we just had Danny go off on Dorothy when she asked if “accidentally cheating” while figuring out you were bisexual was common.
All unauthorized hanky pankying adjacent activity must stay INSIDE the protest gates
“What happens at the protest, stays at the protest”
Them holding hands and gazing into each other’s eyes is going to be the photo that leads the news. They go to warn Joss and end up headlines.
And the ironic part is that it’s taken right now, just before they agree they can’t act on these feelings and need to leave the protest and go back to their boyfriends.
everyone in the comments throwing a hissy fit over the two of them choosing to stay at a protest against genocide really has me questioning what people think is happening in the world. If everyone stayed home to avoid being arrested, we’d have even less positive changes than we do now. Protesting for something they believe in is a GOOD THING TO DO!!!
and so is admitting you’re gay. bite me, paladins.
Except they’re pretty clearly not “protesting for something they believe in”. They’re not even talking about making an ideological commitment to fighting riot cops and getting arrested for the victims of Bulmeria (or however that works out in the metaphor).
Joyce wanted to stay to support Jocelyne and now it seems more about her and Dorothy given the focus on holding hands.
Joyce has shown more awareness for the realities this arc is satirizing than any of the other characters. She has done so in THIS STRIP with her ‘being bombed out of our homes’ line. She clearly, obviously, definitely cares about the protests’ goals, both contextually and metatextually (she’s the main character, she cares about doing the right thing, this is the right thing, she cares.)
It’s called juxtaposition! It’s a storytelling device! They are implicitly saying the protest is the right thing to do, that they both know this and agree upon it, and then it pans down to their hands to tell us, the audience, what ELSE is the right thing to do! This is such SUCH good storytelling and everyone down here is ranting because they might get arrested! No shit!!! Good people get arrested all the time!!! THATS PART OF BEING GOOD WHEN THE GOVERNMENT IS BAD!!!!!!
For once be smart. Don’t get busted after your sister told you to skedaddle. And don’t hurt Joe.
OK that last part is complicated. If you go to Joe and tell him about all this complicated stuff you’re navigating, he’s going to be hurt.
But if you make out and then tell him it will be worse. And if you get arrested for no good reason, AND make out and then tell Joe about it, worse yet.
“Be smart, not gay!” is a deeply troubling take everyone in the comments seems to share these day. Also treating Joe like a sopping wet animal who can’t take care of himself or form his own autonomous actions outside of a woman, when he clearly set the seeds for this happening himself, he knows what’s going on better than either of these girls do, and he certainly didn’t seem upset LAST TIME he talked about it.
also “no good reason” whatever. heroes dont wear capes and they ESPECIALLY don’t go home after the nazis politely ask them to. grow up.
I’m a bona fide member of the sicko faction here. Maybe I’ve missed it, has anyone actually said “Be smart, not gay!” rather than “Be smart, don’t cheat on the person you’re currently dating?”
Because equating the latter with being gay seems like the troubling take here.
No, there is absolutely not a single person saying it. Megan is yet again making up guys to be mad at.
i’m the only crazy one, obviously.
I have repeated over and over again that Joe is an adult man capable of his own decisions, that he’s chosen to push these two together with a smile, we have watched him do it on panel, and not every human on earth would react to the sheer possibility of nonmonogamy with such aghast horror that they’d regress to a husk, and that’s obviously a dirty lie on my part, I deeply apologize. Implying that girls can say out loud ‘I’d like to do this with you’ isn’t tantamount to a betrayal on par with Judas selling Jesus to the sharks was a serious misstep on my part, and I vow to improve myself in the future.
I also should never have implied that telling two women to ‘be smart’ and stop acting the way they are acting is some form of implicit misogyny and/or homophobia from, you know, the point of view to a queer woman. Obviously, no one has ever talked down to the kind of person I am or debased my intelligence using the exact verbiage on display here, and I’m just delusional. This is the cross I must bear, the burden I must overcome on my journey of self-actualization.
Thank you for refusing to prove any points I may have attempted to make about how women and queers are talked over in service of ‘our own good,’ or about how people lash out at us when we take even the smallest of steps towards our truths. I’ve contacted my doctor and am having my prescriptions tripled as to not have any more outbursts.
I did not say ‘be smart not gay’ nor any variation. Don’t lie in relationships, don’t cheat.
Talking honestly about your feelings with someone isn’t cheating, dummy. Also you literally said “Be smart, don’t hurt joe,” implying that having any conversations of the like would hurt Joe. Like, sorry, but whether you meant to or not, yes you did.
I think cheating is a situational thing but the arguments against it in these comment sections has me getting more and more pro cheating out of annoyance
It should be illegal for cartoon women to be faithful to their cartoon boyfriends, punishable with one hour per day in The Box™.
The Box, that is in The Institute, watched over by The Director
It all be solved if cheating was mandatory by law smh.
Joe and Walky aren’t real people with thoughts and feelings. They are cartoon characters who dance for our amusement, and getting cheated on is an amusing dance.
I’m sure everyone would be happier if people always acted reasonable and ethically in this comic, but then there wouldn’t be any storylines at all!
At the very least, it would be a completely different story.
While obviously I understand that they’re not real, if I think of them as simply “cartoon characters who dance for our amusement”, then I lose emotional attachment and stop caring about what happens to them. Shortly after I stop reading the comic.
Like this is basic storytelling. Yes, they’re not real. Yes they exist for our entertainment, but the magic lies in making us ignore that for a bit. In making us care.
This recurring comment I will never understand. Nonfiction is truth through reality; fiction is truth through imagination, storytelling. It’s OK to care what happens to a fictional character. Different from a real person, but OK.
SICKOS RISE UP
Move along. Keep the gate clear. MOVE IT YOU STUPID BONGOS!
I do find it amusing that so many people were insistent the orders to leave were a ruse, that they were already kettled and no one was was going to be let out and that there’s not a peep about that today.
I mean they still haven’t left yet and the police are like right there
Sure, and they might choose not to leave or delay until the police do lock down, but the fence is still open and people seem to be leaving.
“you let go”
“no, you let go”
(SICKO pressed up against the window) Yes…yes!!
this is scary
Nobody is talking about the title “Almost out”???
Wait a minute, they are still INSIDE?!
Oh no hahahaha
Joyce, you definitely seem like you are considering staying, but first go let a friend who isn’t there know where you are like your sister told you
Yes! Someone needs to know to bail y’all out of jail later, if need be.
Big goddamn sapphic kiss as the riot police descend onto them would go hard honestly
Guess it’s time to cross that bridge, eh? *eyebrow waggle*
Go dump your boyfriends THEN kiss
nooo Joyce, the food touches in prisonnn
Oh my Glob…
Ok, they are 18 and mostly made of hormones. This is still a bit painful to read.
OFF: Joyce is so pretty, particularly in 2nd pannel. Congrats,Willis.
You inow, i actually want both of them to cheat on thier boyfriend with each other. I want there to be emotional dsmage to multiple characters because of that decision, i want there to be difficult conversationd about it where nobody come out unscathed. Because i trust that willis will make that very good to read.
i trust that willis will make it very good to read but do i trust myself not to die of stress going through it at a rate of one strip per day
That’s part of the excitement baby! It’s like how people like to eat spicy food even tho they know it hurt (Which ir ironically something i never do)
If the both of you are on the same page this hard, it’s only a matter of spending a day talking to your respective partners to be able to make an ethical decision.
Ethical schmetical
This seems like something to have an open and honest conversation with your partners about. Like I doubt anyone is gonna be happy about it but having everything in the open and reaching a collective agreement on how to proceed sure sounds better than repressed pining until someone caves and cheats
Buuuuut they’re hormonal teens so repressed pining it is
Nah, I think the smart thing to do here is pretend nothing happened and suppress their feelings for each other. They should try to distance themselves from each other, only the brief exchange of glances while they make small talk betraying what they feel inside. Eventually the feelings will dull as their life goes on, and by the time they finally admit to themselves or each other what they had, it will be too late to do anything — the spark will have long since been smothered.
I think that’s the play here.
That would difficulty considering they are both on the same friend group, same dorm, share many classes, etc. (Not to mention how they wouldn’t want to do that if they could. Snd that it would be really boring if they did)
Unfortunately it is not called Smarting of Age so I assume the exact opposite will happen
(The ending of But I’m a Cheerleader plays out in its entirety)
This is not going to end well for a number of people, sadly.
Anyway, smash cut to an ad for the new Slipshine.
In an unexpected twist, it involves Jocelyne and Asma.
as a fervent reader of the girls love genre, I really do love the trope of two women saying that they should not do something extremely gay, only to proceed and do the extremely gay thing
I also kinda enjoy the trope of ditch the man to be with the woman, but I figure that’s a more controversial one to like