I mean in this case, her instincts just so happen to be pretty spot-on in regards to what partially spurned Dorothy on at the last second during the protest. And considering her heritage, she has the right to cynical about this topic.
This so much. It’s just like when people cry that corporations are supporting things like pride just to cash in. Well, duh, of course. It is still a good thing as it helps normalise and remove stigmas. Being backed by the money-mongers means that your movement is finally picking up enough cultural cachet that people who only care about money sees it as an investment worth the potential risk. (i.e. being boycotted by bigots).
Now that in Trump’s America corporations are recoiling away from supporting progressive causes, all the people who complained about their virtue parading might learn a thing or two.
Raidah is still Muslim even if she doesn’t wear a hijab… so it’s exactly like we’re talking about Asma here? If Asma’s heritage as a Muslim woman is recognized so too should Raidah’s.
Well, Raidah’s family comes from the Middle East but you can’t assume she’s Muslim. There are a considerable number of Christian Arabs of various flavors (Copt, Marionite, Orthodox – they have their Patriarch in Jerusalem- Assyrian Apostolic. Or her family may no longer practice Islam. Maybe Raidah is a stone atheist.
She’s definitely a Muslim. In addition to the strip Sean Franco linked, there’s one of the strips where Sarah is zoning out while Jacob talks, fantasizing about him, and he mentions a very specific Muslim religious practice – I forget what, but it had to do with one of Raidah’s baby siblings or nephews – had to do with a lamb or something. The text is partially obscured by Sarah’s imagination, but it’s still pretty clear.
“What heritage” is far worse than implying Asma does not share the culture. Because one is objectively true, however distasteful it might be to phrase it like that, in that context.
The context giving root of the comment should be the thing you point at with that word. Yes, we SHOULDNT be afraid to call a spade a spade, and therefore racist implications racist. But the discourse is a little polluted with accusations so readily slung with so little effort to explain.
I don’t think asking them to reread and then slinging an accusation (by their perspective not ours), solves anything honestly.
Fair point. I just viscerally didn’t like the implication that Asma (assuming she’s also American born like Raidah) was any less “American” and knee jerked a obtuse response.
Fwiw I don’t think it’s been established Asma isn’t a foreign student on a Visa, thinking about it.
Dude, just because you might be white and hate your own culture or love it too much, which the heck ever, doesn’t mean you can write THEM BOTH OFF as any manner of not belonging.
Migrant rights are human rights are citizen’s rights.
MAYBE look up the Tuskegee experiments and consider why black folks would not trust ANY American institution, medical, police, political or otherwise. What heritage? The heritage of being a woman when nurses will take any excuse to write in your charts you are hysterically drug seeking because you accurately stated the symptoms of a now well documented medical condition like endometriosis. The heritage of being black where their pain straight up is in doubt MORE explicitly than that. The heritage of yes, her family being rich, but in rich suaree circles she no doubt got to be dragged on the racism being more insideous, more masked but more present statistically, among all old money in this country.
See example: Trump extended family not liking him releasing MLK files at ALL because it reminds us what those with the last name of Trump were doing and saying in the civil rights era. Donald Sr. was a SERIOUS critic of the good Doctor Reverant. Critic is a very generous word for it in fact.
Being selfish doesn’t mean you deserve less rights and less consideration as a human being than anyone else, period, that’s what concerns us about what you said. And I’m sure some other stuff too, but I’m not equipped to speak on that. I just know the history you’re being VERY flippant about.
None of this is remotely fully dealt with “in 2025” as they keep sighing wistfully about.
Dorothys race had next to nothing to do with it, she was there because shes spirtalling about what she can do that actually matters and helps.
She didnt do it because “I’m white and important”. Like, at least the “white freshman” showed up unlike her.
Dorothy did it because she was spiraling about what she can do that actually matters and helps, not because it’s horrific for educational institutions to fund/support bombing civilians, but because it furthered her own character development and reaffirmed her sense of self. She ignored the recommendations of the protest leader and made out with Joyce instead. Also, it’s a lot safer for white people to go to protests where police might be involved, so saying Raidah wasn’t there isn’t a fair critique of her character.
It’s good for white people to show up to protests, hell, having more bodies helps, even if they show up for the wrong reasons. But Raidah’s criticism is kinda spot on…
And she even projects it onto everyone else, regardless of context. She’s an empty cynic who’s only civil to people she can try to bank status off of, so naturally everyone else is too.
She might be right about why they did, but she’s still wrong. She could be encouraging them to do it for the right reasons, encouraging them to do more research, and/or encouraging them to keep trying to help.
Dismissing them, and saying their help is worthless is a step back, not forward.
That’s not coddling; that’s just helping others do the right thing. Our actions shape our thoughts, and vice versa. Continuing to help will help them learn, and grow.
Raidah doesn’t need to coddle she just needs to stop belittling people.
Assuming someone did something good only for themselves? Accurate, or not that’s still belittling someone. Raidah didn’t have to include the comment she did so to make Joyce and Dorothy feel lesser; not teach them, not argue, not debate, not even asking if they went for the right reasons. Raidah’s comment is intended to be belittling whether she is right or not.
Raidah doesn’t have an obligation to “teach them” though. And the main reason why Raidah is cynical about this specific topic is because reality has validated that cynicism for many PoC many times in real life. Raidah is being rude and harsh sure, but belittling does not fit because in this case Raidah being right about her assumption doesn’t mean she saying it just to make them feel smaller but rather forces self-reflection just in a mean manner.
Being right about why they did it isn’t the point; even if they had done it for the right reasons Raidah’s comment was designed to put their efforts down.
I can’t reply to the comment since we have to many in a row.
You make a good point that it does make them reflect. I still think Raidah only said it to make them feel lesser. Yes no one is obligated to teach anyone anything. However if you believe something is doing good for the world then you should at minimum want more people to understand. Raidah’s not doing that here; ironically I feel like Raidah is saying that to make herself feel superior, even if it does no good in the world.
I don’t doubt that Raidah has contempt for them, but I don’t think think Raidah was concerned about whether she was making them feel lesser, I think she was just cynically bitter and wanted to express said bitterness.
Would Raidah have reacted differently to an older woman she doesn’t know than she reacted to these two girls whom she both knows and dislikes? Um, yes, I think she would have.
Actually her assessment is WAY off. They didn’t go to the protest to get attention. They went to the protest to warn Jocelyne her dad might be on to her. Dorothy stayed because she wanted to do something meaningful for once, instead of always playing it safe, and Joyce stayed because she wanted to support Dorothy.
Sure, Dorothy wasn’t doing it for the “right reason,” but she wasn’t doing it to get attention, either.
Actively ridiculing for trying to help will ALWAYS be wrong. Period. Doubly wrong when you probably don’t give a flip about the protests personally one way or the other.
(I will eat those words if Raidah actually is shown to care later. But I suspect I will go hungry)
There’s a difference between not coddling and not endorsing that ANY ACTION THEY COULD POSSIBLE TAKE, COULDNT POSSIBLY BE for the right reasons.
Difference between ambivalence and absolute passive aggressive hostility, and pretending they are JUST their relationship with Sarah who she doesn’t like, or JUST young when she’s all of 1-2 years older than them, or JUST white, as if defining people by their label they can literally not help being, isn’t some type of bigoted. Even if reverse racist isn’t a thing considering racism is a modern and WESTERN and CHRISTIAN and WHITE concept… it’s still not nice.
And yeah, Dotty’s right, can’t succinctly and politely say a single thing to that.
Kind of, say you don’t want to talk, while saying a lot for someone who doesn’t want to talk. She could have just passed them by. But she’s gotta get the “You Reek” in and then get the last line off.
Solves nothing, crab pot mentality. Don’t discourage the behavior you want to see. Other stuff like that. Buh, Raidah… I just wanted to keep thinking about how garbage roof all of these kids are sometimes.
Being a Muslim woman of color, she also had a LOT MORE to lose than most, so not physically attending a protest that was that night made illegal isn’t exactly all that selfish, self-absorbed or unrealistic.
It’s not her job to shout that they stink and be rude because she doesn’t like the people that make Sarah happy, be fair, haha.
Also keeping in mind that this is the Joyce who “teleported back 5 feet” after being informed she was Muslim, and Dorothy who genuinely was naive to have to be told it’s basically in a US president’s job description to aid, aibet, and actively rubber stamp more war crimes every. Single. Year. Globally.
So them going to the protest is a step up, but she has no reason to think both of them are model citizens because they attended a rally without reading ahead that morning if it was still a legal assembly (which in the eyes of the CONSTITUTION it is! Despite the uni having the technical right to ban it on their grounds, they are absolutely a traditional public forum even if they are a private owned business as well. You can’t get more traditional a public forum than an academy, the ancient Greeks had academies of sorts. The concept of a university started in the pit of an amphitheatre, literally, the basis of philosophy and PUBLICIZED higher learning IS social.
So even if they are private businesses either you accept all protests or none of them, choosing between them is discrimination.
But anyways all to say, not exactly a simple conversation. I’d link the recent Dannyphantom.exe short of “everything is that deep” here…
… Oh, other ppl are doing it, ban me if ye must willis
She didn’t say it was worthless. What she did was guess (correctly) that their involvement was driven primarily by personal motivations rather than political ones.
The personal motivation to warn Joyce’s sister that she may be outed to their father? Not exactly a selfish motive deserving of random ire from someone who starts a conversation with a cruel comment about how you smell. Raidah went into this conversation intending to be mean well before politics entered the discussion.
you’re not exactly refuting Raidah’s point that Joyce and Dorothy don’t know or care about Palestine Bulmeria, they were there for reasons almost completely divorced from actual political activism
Except Raidah didn’t limit herself to accusing them of not being there for the ‘right’ reason; she specifically opted to put on them the worst possible reason she could think of–one that, as it turns out, was only about 25% correct (they were originally there to warn Jocelyn, then Dotty arguably picked up the sign to be visibly ‘doing right’–that is, for the attention–but even then, Joyce didn’t give two flying fucks about attention-grabbing; all her fucks were for being there for Dotty).
The extent to which they were “doing it for attention” was also the complete duration of time in which either of them were actually protesting, though.
Dorothy picked up that sign to be right, right then, regardless of the cost. No more carefully modulated dissent that won’t undercut the long-term goal of being President. Dorothy’s now flying the flag of anger.
Reminds me of my highschool days where all the teachers would dismiss student petitions and protests and basically saying discouraging things about how we can’t change anything. This was even about new things the school wanted to do, like keeping the same teachers for freshman and sophmore year for core classes (ie math, science, history and English), that the students DID NOT want to do. It was a very depressing thing to constantly hear. Nothing more demeaning than your school constantly saying that we don’t care about your thoughts or opinions. No one likes being patronized.
Actually, she’s only right about Dorothy–Joyce did it because Dotty was there, and because she trusts Jocelyn to be on the right side of things. Not pure motives, of course, but then, we’ve never seen anything resembling a pure motive from Raidah, either.
Willis seems quite convinced they’ll be endgame but… I don’t think they’re interesting enough as a romantic pairing for that. It feels to me, as a writer, like it’d be very very easy for them to get into a rut. It’ll be a few years, but I think we’ll eventually start to see some struggling to figure out where else they have to go.
It feels silly to even say “well that’s subjective” — obviously you know that!
I do think that Willis saying that Joyce and Dorothy bein’ gay at each other were one of their favorite parts of DoA indicate that they will be able to maintain interest, but I’ll be a contrarian for a moment and say that writing subtext IS different from writing text.
Also, of course, so far it seems like the likelihood a couple has of being happy and stable over the long term is kinda inverse-proportional to how front-and-center they are.
But there are also types of drama that don’t break couples up, too, like I don’t think Dina and Becky are in danger, despite several significant bumps.
It’s interesting that Dorothy didn’t join the protest to feel better about herself, rather it was the ineffectiveness of her prior world view and the hypocrisy of changing the rules at a point where she was particularly vulnerable. But she was vulnerable because she was feeling seriously bad about herself due to Joyce related angst. And now she doesn’t really feel so bad about herself, although she arguably has more reason to.
Nah, Raidah’s just the type to turn her nose up at people because she would rather be above someone who actually goes to a protest. Note, her ass wasn’t there, but I bet she’s totally okay with takin the credit as a black woman from other black women puttin in the effort.
The reason they were there was to make sure of the safety of Joyce’s trans sister. Everything else was a side effect of their drama or them being unprepared, but that original reason for going is not what Raidah expected or knows.
And that’s a key reason not to retort, because it’s a *relief* that she doesn’t know. Social climbers with little sense of ethics but aiming for a career in law regardless are traditionally not kind to trans people, we have one as Prime Minister the UK at the moment.
A comment on the internet calling a woman a bongo for making a completely valid point but not being polite and smiley enough while she did so? Well, now I’ve seen everything.
Doesn’t have to be polite and smiley, it just needs to be said with a little less contempt for them. Is she right about their reason? Yes. Is her comment still presumptuous, dismissive, and condescending? Yes. She could have used this moment to simply make them question themselves; instead she made them feel lesser, and insinuate their is help isn’t wanted.
She didn’t have to be nice, she just needed to be less hostile.
Wow, so expecting someone to not be hostile with you is a new low, and is tone policing?
I don’t care who you are unless someone has done something to deserve it no one should be meeting with open hostility. That’s not tone policing it’s just asking to not be met with hate. Does Raidah go through more hate? I’m positive she does, within universe, and outside her universe. Everyone’s feelings are the same size; so maybe Raidah is actively hostile because that’s how she feels treated. That doesn’t make it right; even if there’s an explanation for why. I realize now I shouldn’t be so hostile to Raidah, and I still feel she was unnecessarily hostile.
Hostile is a strong word for what is, in practice, a snide comment as she walks past them and to her destination. It was unnecessary but not at all unusual (for Raidah).
Except she’s not ‘right about their reason’, even. Initial arrival was to warn Jocelyn. Then Dotty lashed out by trying to take a stand, even though she is absolutely ignorant of the real reasons (the more I think about it, the less I see it as attention-seeking and more as a brief attempt to try to make her recent spate of bad decisions come to something good). And then Joyce went because Dotty went. So, no, Raidah is wrong, again.
Less that and more that the two are operating from a position of privilege and naivete, and so are less invested in the cause for any genuine moral outrage than just dabbling in trendy activism
I actually really like Raidah as a character. I think she’s wrong a lot, but from early on we’ve seen that she’s less shitty than the people she hangs out with, and smarter – but also petty and insecure. The fact that she was a little manipulative with Jacob in very specific ways made me think that the status-chasing for her is… very, very much born of deep-seated insecurities. I really hope we get to know her better in this arc.
Raidah may be a bongo, but she’s not wrong. Joyce and Dorothy went to the protest to find Jocelyne and tell her that her dad saw a picture of her at the protest, not because they actually cared about the cause of the protest.
And yet, even when she’s ‘right’ (about them not understanding the issue at hand), she’s wrong about their reason (neither went initially because of attention-seeking).
Assuming this wasn’t a one-off appearance…Raidah has reasons to hate Joyce and reasons to look down on Dorothy (I mean, more than her baseline contempt for literally everyone who can’t benefit her), so I could se her being part of kickstarting any drama surrounding this. Maybe she goes to Jacob about it…can’t imagine what that’d accomplish but it could happen.
Dorothy isn’t rich and does not have any connections. She wanted to succeed by good works and diligent effort, which is inherently offensive to social climbers.
It’s impossible to be president and not be a war criminal… but Raidah of all people looking down on political ambition is absolutely absurd when contrasted with her own personal behaviors.
1. Raidah is status-seeking and feels contempt for those who are not.
2. Raidah detests Sarah in particular for personal reasons.
3. Raidah dislikes anyone in Sarah’s social circle because of #2.
The reason for Raidah to target Dorothy is that she was trying to isolate Joyce and Sarah from their friend group and Dorothy didn’t play along, even to the extent that Walky did. The reason for Raidah to target Joyce is that she cost her a high status boyfriend.
This is probably another strip that Willis added recently in response to discussion about the lack of focus on the Muslim characters during/about the protest. I doubt it’s going to lead to Raidah being tied more into the relationship plot – though Raidah getting her impression of Joyce as a cheater/homewrecker confirmed would be fun.
Honestly, of all the things Raidah’s done, being cynical about white freshman trying to be politically active is pretty low on the “asshole” list.
Its extremely rude, but she’s probably had personal experience with the sort that’s all in favor of being politically active for the right reasons riiiiiiiiiight up until the point where consequences (or their own privilege) start being threatened.
I think for Raidah, just the sight of Joyce’s face is plenty, because she’s still nursing her grudge over the mess with Jacob. It’s at a “look at her, eating crackers, what a bongo” level.
She also happens to be right, but I do also think she’s just instantly on red alert any time she runs into Joyce.
Disagree about Raidah being ‘right’. Neither girl went there to get attention for themselves. Joyce was worried about Jocelyn, and Dotty was worried about Joyce. She’s correct that they are not politically savvy about the actual issue, but that’s about as far as it goes.
I mean if you wanna get technical, she also didn’t say that’s why they went to the protest. I think she assumes they’d say they went to support the cause, and that they might even believe it. I think she also thinks she’s puncturing a self-congratulatory high, where they’re feeling better about themselves; where they might have specifically expected congratulations from her, after telling her they’d been at the protest, for example.
And she’s right that they didn’t go to the protest because they cared about the issue, and she’s right that Dorothy stayed behind to get tear gas on her clothes because she desperately wanted to feel better about herself.
I think Raidah is the sort of person who sees nearly every interaction as confrontation and/or competition and therefore strikes first so she’s not surprised.
[Insert rant about Racism Reverse Card bullshit here]
you know what, fuck it, imma skip this one, I KNOW there are better ways to support progressive causes than having arguments with random strangers on the internet
case in point:
game distributor itch.io now censors NSFW and LGBTQ content, because payment processors Visa / Mastercard got over 1000 annoying phone calls from a hate group
there are much more than 1000 of us who are affected by this, we need EVERY bit of help we can get for the sake game developers, queer and trans content creators from all walks of life
I was watching DingDongVG’s stream right as that went down, and the second someone in chat told him about it, he went the fuck off on Itch and the extremists threatening them.
Collective Shout, the jerks that they were, were talking about how it took “thousands” of calls to Visa to get this to happen.
I suspect this fandom alone could do about 20% of that if we all made one call today.
It takes a surprisingly small amount of ringing phones to move a mega-corporation if you do it as a concerted effort and threaten their income stream. As such, your call script should include “If I can’t buy the legal content I want with your credit cards, I will have to switch to cash/check/specialist payment processors, and if I have to do that I might as well ditch my Visa/Mastercard entirely.”
I strongly recommend that if you do this, you don’t use a script. I know it’s hard for a lot of people to do this without one, but using a script makes it much easier to file it under ‘spam/chain letter/bots/whatever’ and block messages that use the script or delete them entirely without considering them.
Bluesky reports are that the calls are already wearing them out pretty hard. Literally, “Is this another one of THOSE calls?” responses and desperate attempts to get people to hangup and send an email.
I was referring to Dorothy’s “insults that describe irrefutably what I am”. People in social media often call me woke as if it is some kind of insult. Well, to me it is praise not an insult. Not exactly the same as their experience here, but relatable.
No, nobody said woke in the cartoon. I said it all by myself. I did not mean that Raidah was calling them woke (sincere or insincere).
Has Willis said he does this? Where is your proof? I mean, if *I* were a webcomic artist with a year’s worth of buffer, I’d just sit back and read all the comments with a smile. I’d occasionally say, “Hm, yeah, that would’ve been a cool story. But I’ve already TOLD my story, and you guys have absolutely NO FUCKING IDEA what’s gonna happen, but I DO! Nyah, nyah, nyah!”
Yes, Willis has been talking on their tumblr and and bluesky how he came to realize that the recent story-line was worthy of criticism in regards to how his web-comic has had a dearth of Muslim PoV characters and how there were issues with how a fictional protest that was still undeniably an analogue to the protests for Palestine was used primarily for the purpose of getting two cis white girls to hook up.
Revising it because you want to stay popular/relevant is wrong. Revising it because you think people made good points is fine, especially since he’s only ‘revising’ things that haven’t actually been published, yet, and therefore can be reasonably adapted to a deeper understanding by the author.
I’m a bit more concerned about whether or not Willis is going to be reaching beyond his grasp, here. Islam is no less malignant a force in the modern world than Christianity, but showing that sort of complexity without veering into pure stereotypes is difficult, even if you’re well-versed in the cultures involved.
Asma’s head-scarf, for instance, is there based on a teaching that is at least as toxic as Joyce’s former, “Everything good I do is because of God, no me” belief. It literally is there because Islam teaches that women are responsible for not leading men into lust. Not wearing some form of head-covering, in areas where Islam is the dominant religion, can lead to arrest, assault and straight-up murder, sometimes by the woman’s own family. Talking about these sorts of issues in the way Willis has tried, and generally succeeded, in talking about atheism, Christianity and Black/white issues is damnably difficult.
Muslim women, particularly in the west, may be hijabi for many reasons, including personal ones. A shotgun approach to criticizing religion is outdated and regressive.
Hey, Freemage, I kind of doubt you actually know enough about Islam to be making these criticisms.
Also, like, you might have missed it, but Willis’s criticisms of Christianity haven’t been as broad as you think they have. We’ve done a deep dive into specifically evangelical fundie Christianity, while notably not taking aim at Jacob’s Episcopalian beliefs.
Heck, Mormonism is one of the creepier sects, but Willis doesn’t have the same personal experience with it, so Agatha’s a typical “too-nice” Mormon character, and the closest we’ve come to criticism of Mormonism itself was Joyce apologizing to her because she realized that she used to look down on Agatha for believing such silly stuff.
You might not like Willis staying in their lane, but like. It does help prevent them from going on ignorant screeds like this one.
I mean, I wouldn’t expect a lot of criticisms of Islam, but just portraying Muslim characters as normal people (with the aid of a sensitivity reader, which we already know Willis employs) should be fine.
I don’t think DOA Muslim readers wanted nor expected Willis to write an entire kitchen-sink drama deconstructing the realities of Islamic faith in the modern age, there’s plenty of stuff out there by Muslim creatives that can tackle these things with more experience and nuance, we just wanted the few Muslim characters that were there to actually do something and have it matter!
The bottom line is that when you go out of your way to NOT tell stories with Muslim/Arab/SWANA characters in it because you find it to be “risker”, you just continue to other us as unknowable, unreasonable and not worth the understanding.
Also tangentially related but I’m TRULY tired of the Hijab/Modest Wear = Oppression correlation that non-Muslims like to bring up, because it’s almost always a condescending “gotcha”, regardless if that was the intention or not.
Yeah like Willis is white and obviously won’t know as much about Muslims and their culture as an actual Muslim, but it certainly can’t hurt for him to have Muslim characters have meaningful roles in the story!
re: “other us as unknowable”, this is literally how I feel about this dealio where kids are told by their parents to not interact with mentally disabled people because they’re mortally afraid of accidentally offending us
even if we are not offended, it means the kid will grow up to be reluctant to talk to disabled folk in general, and means autistic folk like me are still othered in society at large and so is still part of the problem
I really appreciate your input here, and really glad Willis still keeps a comments section for the sake of this kind of valuable, constructive feedback ^^
Ty IKWtMLS! That was my thinking, from what I’ve heard other folks from other minority religions say. Really great to have someone weigh in who actually knows what they’re talking about.
(And yeah, definitely have heard that… well, I should shut the heck up about head-coverings. It only makes sense to listen to Muslims who wear them instead of sticking my ignorant agnostic culturally-Christian nose in there.)
I remember that I ended my big ole’ emotional spiel during the big Dojo Kiss of 25’ with a bid for people to check out “The Taqwacores”, NOT because I think it’s this perfect story that shows you unproblematic, unanimously agreeable Muslim characters ( for better or for worse both the book + the movie are such extreme relics of the respective time periods they came out ) but because it’s the best example of a story about *American Muslims in specific, written for and by a western audience.
There is just this sheer amount of VARIETY depicted in how all these crusty Muslim punks all explore and express their heritage and faith, even when it’s in direct conflict with each other, and it’s honestly one of the most humanizing depictions of Muslim Americans and Muslim communities being PEOPLE who have quirks and principles and insecurities like everyone else.
As for the Hijab stuff, it’s just something that really bugs me, and I’m not even someone who adheres to **modest standards of presentation. IDK it’s a really big and messy topic that I do NOT want to have at 2AM in the morning, but if you want a quick example as to how damaging this kind “Islamic Head Scarfs are repressing Women” rhetoric can be, just look up how “Laïcité” has affected the both French-Muslims and the wider Muslim population
*Really wanna emphasize that “American Muslims” part, because there’s PLENTY of books and movies and tv shows out there that are being made by people who live in the SWANA regions that are worthy of being explored and experienced.
**Partially because I only wear Hijabs for special occasions and holidays, partially because I err much more on the agnostic side of being Muslim-Agnostic
@NGPZ I also wanted to thank you for your kind words, think i fell asleep before I could respond properly. Your observations on how the well meaning “othering” that happens when you grow up paranoid of causing deep offense is very astute, especially the fact that “othering” bias comes in more shape than one. I think it’s something that we all struggle with at some point, and it’s really important that we sit back and be temporarily embarrassed than continue to be willfully ignorant, even if it does suck at times.
Also, the logic of “don’t write about anyone who isn’t exactly like you”… this comic wouldn’t exist at all, given the complete lack of late-40s ex-Christian white AMAB enbies.
Willis seems to have a genuinely great attitude towards criticism, where they keep trying and messing up and adjusting, and I bet this whole mess taught them not to try to hold back important spoilers from their sensitivity readers!
No one’s ever going to write a perfect story but it’s SO much better to keep trying.
how devoid of critical thinking skills do you have to be to think an author is “weak” for revising a storyline based on criticism of how a conflict based on real life events is handled in their story when the real life events in question are, like, Literal Bombing Of Civilians In Another Country, because the author thinks those criticisms are founded and substantial. like. hello.
It’s cause they’ve given into this right wing bullshit suggesting that there’s always this hard line mutually excluding personal/authentic expression from some abstracted notion of “””politics”””, and on top of that, the idea that one can always be safely prioritized over the other 👀
I think that’s the attitude they’re taking with Dorothy and Joyce. Which I can respect, but that’s not the attitude you want to be taking on a subject matter as serious as genocide.
Are we not still settled on “You can’t be racist toward whites in the USA, because they’re the ones with all the power and privilege”? I thought that was the current framework.
it is, but apparently *some people* just can’t help but fall back on a shallow understanding of racism over-simplified for 6-year-olds, go figure (-_-)
Nah, fuck that. Racism is racism. Just because white people are historically better at being shitheads doesn’t mean the rest of the world gets a pass for shitty behavior. There’s nothing mature or deep about letting people act like assholes.
This one, yeah. Prejudice, as in “pre-judge”, which is not only possible but almost unavoidable in some ways. I can’t really blame someone for being unsurprised by or wary of white people, after all the shit that’s happened in history.
Plenty of people do so, but this is a relatively recent shift and it’s entirely rooted in the backlash to the Civil Right Era and attempts to paint “reverse racism” as the real problem.
“Bigotry” and “racism” are different things. Racism requires privilege in a way that bigotry does not. Ditto misogyny, which is why ‘misandry’ isn’t a thing. Raidah might be being a bigot, here, but she isn’t being ‘racist’.
What is the point of defining terms in such a way as to make them exclusionary based on race or sex? In order to get in pedantic arguments with people?
The original point when academics and activist started doing it, was to try to shift focus to the more harmful systematic issues and biases instead of individual people’s personal faults.
For a relatively pure example of the latter, look at how some touch less sinks couldn’t sense black people’s hand, be, and therefore when they got installed black people couldn’t really use public bathrooms anymore.
As far as I know, no one on the design team that made those were personally bigoted, and the design wasn’t picked on purpose to hurt black people either.
But they still got made as a result of the systemic factors that had made it so it didn’t occur to anyone to include black people when testing them.
The idea was that by having a way to speak about the two as different it’d be easier to do something about the systemic issues, rather than just the more visible personal hostility one.
I can’t really speak to how successful that distinction have been, but that was the origin.
I’d say the original point for academics was more that they realized they needed a way to talk about non-systemic racism. Nobody back in the Jim Crow days would even have thought of “black people distrusting white people” as racism.
The point is that bigotry is a personal issue–it may be common within a society, but ultimately has to be addressed one person a time. Systemic racism, OTOH, is just that–it can ONLY be addressed at the system level, because it exists independently of the feelings of individuals within the system (though it will reinforce and is reinforced by personal bigotry).
FREX: Housing discrimination from decades ago continues to leave many areas blighted by disinvestment. Even though the number of people who will attempt to prevent folks of another race from moving into their neighborhood is now a small fraction (though still not small enough) of what it was in the 50s, the legacy of that era is a large number of high-crime, high-poverty neighborhoods where Black Americans are trapped.
Not just from decades ago. Even as recently as the 2008 housing crisis, black buyers were steered disproportionately into subprime mortgages compared to white buyers with the same credit ratings.
Even more recently, I’ve seen studies showing real estate agents steering black buyers into “black neighborhoods”. I have no doubt housing discrimination continues today – though I do suspect that the internet makes it harder than when buyers were completely at the mercy of agents.
Freemage, I disagree with your definition. Racism does not require privilege, or at least the privilege (and the system) can be very small.
Real-life example: A black friend works for a company which promotes black culture. Everyone who works there is black. They just had an opening for a well-paying position for which I am almost the perfect candidate. My friend told me don’t even bother to apply, since I am white. That is racism.
(I am not complaining to the EOE because I wasn’t actually planning to apply. Also, to a point, I agree with them. A little payback for centuries white racism is fine by me.)
Ever since this idea of Racism = Power + Prejudice came up a couple years back I was EXTREMELY suspicious of anyone who pushes it. Because it just sounds like the “I can’t be racist, I have black friends!” excuse. It’s just a little bit of semantics to shield yourself from accusations.
Definitely, and I think it’s extremely telling that many people who are generally descriptivist about language get vociferously prescriptivist about this one definition.
I’ve been saying that for years but the only time I ever hear the power + prejudice argument its after someone was getting called out for saying something really discriminatory against another race. And not just black people to white people. I’ve seen people say “black people can’t be racist to Mexicans cuz they hold no power over them” and like…that is not something I would ever be confident enough to say with my whole chest. But yeah it feels like it’s only ever said to justify being bigoted while “punching upwards” and I just find the kind of person who needs to justify lumping people into a group in order to insult them to be a toxic person to be around. You’re not better than bigots just cuz you pick your targets differently.
Raidah and her history aside…”Racist against white people” feels like saying I’m ageist because I despise the rich 60-year-old assholes who drive past my house in loud cars every day. In a world where global governing systems were built for and around accommodating white people on the backs of other races, whiteness is inherently privileged. Even if the word “racism” might be dictionary-correct by some definitions, it has a lot of implied context in modern use that means that “racism” against white people has all its teeth pulled. If we’re empowered and the other person is disempowered ..yeah, take it on the chin, because frankly the punch isn’t hurting you. Hell, whiteness is so inherently privileged that there is still more danger to the non-white person doing the punching than there will ever be to the white person being punched.
> global governing systems were built for and around accommodating white
> people on the backs of other races
Try to be a Southern or Eastern European in the West. Try to be an Irish in the XIXth century Not all whites are created equal.
Damn, I took your advice and tried to go be Irish in the 19th century, but I ran into a snag. See, it turns out you can’t travel backward in time yet, so I guess we’ll all have to just work with the standards of the time we actually live in, until we can physically go back in time to victimize ourselves.
Oh that’s okay, you can just go be a Slav in Western Europe then. LOL, we are so screwed that one American organization straight up classified us as PoC.
Correct, whiteness is a bullshit invented category defined entirely by relative access to privilege and can be revoked at any time by more powerful “white” people, though if any of us Irish-descended folks do become “not white” again we’re still not going to get back the culture or respect our ancestors, specifically, lynched so many innocent people to trade. Pretty pointless thing to get defensive about.
I’m going to go ahead and cut off any um actually’s for ya Taffy. Feel free to let me know if I missed something
“Judging somebody based on the colour of their skin” racism and, “Oppressing people based on the colour of their skin” racism are two different things. The former, yeah, that can happen to white people. Can’t deny that. That’s not what people are talking about when they mention racism unless they are trying to undermine shiz – either intentionally or accidentally. The latter in the US? Hahahaaaaaaaah no. Nope. Nu-uh. Impossible to do to white people
When people mention Racism, they mean the latter. When you “um actually” this shit by evoking the former, you’re trying to undermine the latter
I think we agree with one another, here? You can’t be oppression-style racist against white people in the USA, in case I wasn’t being clear on which version I meant and assumed Rakeesh meant. You can judge white people based on out color, for sure, because [insert your “favorite” historical precent here] makes at least a little wariness healthy, but there’s no way to oppress us for it. I wasn’t trying to “um actually” anything, myself.
Gotcha gotcha. At this point, I figure anyone who genuinely thinks it’s possible to oppress a white person in 🇺🇲🦅🎇 America 🚓🪖💣is being willfully ignorant and can’t be trusted to choose a side, including at a restaurant.
Alright keeping it a stack I didn’t really read the context before I posted that last comment. But I’ll stand by it in spirit even if it’s a bit irrelevant to the point being made.
Hey, I gotcha though. Intersectionality and whatnot, yeah? Like, I’m white and AMAB, but some of my other wiki tags include “differently abled” and “queer”, so unless I’m super careful with my presentation, I don’t get the safety my straight NT friends get. The way I phrased it was narrow, but I’ll add a slight amendment and say you can’t oppress a white American for their whiteness in specific. Lotta moving parts, innit.
Honestly, that’s definition I would have used until two years ago when I read a book that shifted my thoughts on the subject a lot, entitled Meditations on Frantz Fanon’s Wretched of the Earth: New Afrikan Revolutionary Writings by James Yaki Sayles. In it he says: “None of us is free from the responsibility to uproot racialized thought and practice-within ourselves and wherever we encounter it. As I see it, a “racist” is anyone holding the belief that the human species is divided into a plurality of “races”, some of which are superior to others. If you employ a racialized binary (e.g. “black” and “”white” or “sun people” and “snow people”) to categorize people, you’re a “racist” and you practice racism—at a minimum, you mistake the shadow for the body, and you’re wasting energy.”
This is not the same thing as colorblind racism that the definition of racism you’re using is trying to address (See the book Racism with Racists: : Color-Blind Racism and the Persistence of Racial Inequality in the United States is by Eduardo Bonilla-Silva for the go to example) & this is mirroed in Fanon’s writing itself when he says: “To us, the man who adores the Negro is as “sick” as the man who abominates him. Conversely, the black man who wants to tum his race white is as miserable as he who preaches hatred for the whites. In the absolute, the black is no more to be loved than the Czech, and truly what is to be done is to set man free….I believe that the fact of the juxtaposition of the white and black races has created a massive psychoexistential complex. I hope by analyzing it to destroy it. Many Negroes will not find themselves in what follows. This is equally true of many whites. But the fact that I feel a foreigner in the worlds of the schizophrenic or the sexual cripple in no way diminishes their reality. The attitudes that I propose to describe are real. I have encountered them innumerable times” Frantz Fanon, Black Skin White
& , Meditations on Frantz Fanon’s wretched of the earth
-”In the ivory coast, the anti-dahoman and anti-voltatic troubles are in fact racial riots. The Dahoman and voltaic peoples who control the greater part of the petty trade, are, once independence is declared, the object of hostile manifestations on the part of the people of the ivory coast. From nationalism we have passed into ultra-nationalism, to chauvinism and finally to racism.” Frantz Fanon, wretched of the earth.
The essays “Critical Race Is Awesome and Here’s Why”by Twin Rabbit, a Kalinago 4 field anthropologist and “Taking Black studies to the streets” by Paul Gilroy were also deeply influential on me.
“All Critical race theory did was identify the groups and how law became an instrument in the process rather than some colorblind neutral party.There’s no such thing as CRT inventing race. It identifies parts of society where race gets created and then maintained. A critical race theorist would use precisely the same methodology in China and be able to identify whole swaths of China, all Chinese, who are treated as inferior to other Chinese based on arbitrary physiological characteristics internal to china. And if you don’t believe me, ask the Uyghurs if racism is a thing………Really, if there’s a racial or ethnic category, and that category is being erased, CRT works just the same. It even worked for Irish scholars trying to prove Irish slavery. Don’t start furiously typing; The Irish were never the victims of the chattel slave trade of other peoples. What is true is at one point they were listed as one of the “mongrel races”, and cromwell did forcibly remove them from Ireland and deposit them in the Caribbean like some other minorities we know. It doesn’t excuse people trying to claim false equivalence on reddit and it definitely doesn’t excuse the Irish themselves by trying to get out of poverty by becoming slave traders, but as I said CRT itself doesn’t actually care, if anything it further demonstrates race is a moving target, whiteness itself doesn’t exist because they keep adding and removing who qualifies. If you personally want to devise a scale by which one group has suffered more than another, you can certainly try, but any good critical race theorist will also question how you plan to do that yourself without creating an arbitrary racial category for comparison and forcing people together who might say they have nothing in common if asked. Richard delgado made almost exactly that same point in his text, “4 reservations on civil rights reasoning by analogy.”
& “We always agree that “race” is invented but are then required to to defer to it’s embeddedness in the world and to accept that the demand for justice requires us nevertheless innocently to enter the political arenas it helps us to mark out” – Paul gilroy – Taking black studies to the streets
Raidah is not being racist at two white girls simply by being entirely correct about them being fair weather activists for a cause that (extremely likely) affects Raidah personally.
It’s not racism to point out that someone is being shallow, for crying out loud.
and it’s not racism for an Arab(? I’m not sure if it’s been stated) girl to not be nice to white girls, can we not go down that route please
Yeah, the amount of racism on display in the comic is somewhere in the neighborhood of “fuck-all” and “jack squat”, and it’s at least a little weird that we went there so quickly.
Oh, for sure. I understand fully what she’s on about when she brings up their whiteness, and I get the broader cultural implications of her assuming they were protesting for attention and to feel better about themselves. No doubt her implied backstory includes plenty of examples of that stuff.
Far as “not actually unusual” goes, that’s part of what I’m calling weird. It’s super common for any passing mention of whiteness to immediately devolve into elite quantification of what is or isn’t racism, and that’s really something I find odd about our culture. We live in a strange fucking society, and it’s getting weirder by the day.
I reject the ‘entirely correct’ framing, here. She’s correct that they clearly know nothing about the sitch in “Bulmeria”, but they did not go to the protest to get attention for themselves, and Dotty’s brief foray into taking a stand wasn’t even about getting attention for herself (I’d suspect Roz of that, in a similar circumstance). Dotty was going through a catharsis and was trying to externalize that, but it wasn’t about getting her name in the paper or impressing anyone. And Joyce only stuck around because she was supporting Dotty.
Also, like, Raidah didn’t actually say they went to the protest for attention or to feel better about themselves. She asked if they feel better now and if they got the attention they wanted.
This IS an accurate criticism of Dorothy’s moment of “you don’t know what I need”, which of course is why Dorothy reacts by sinking in on herself a bit and attempting a deflection.
After Raidah says she’s not cynical about protests, just white freshmen, Dorothy stops trying to deflect and just accepts the criticism.
It’s not a KIND comment, but Raidah doesn’t like either of them, and she doesn’t owe them kindness, beyond baseline “human decency”.
@Astariel: I’m gonna skip forward a step, because I think we’re working with different definitions, and that’s at least partly on me, because I could have been clearer.
If you’ve ever heard someone talk about how every human being is entitled to a certain baseline of “respect”, and for some people, “respect” means letting them have autonomy, but for other people “respect” means treating them with deference?
That I think is the sort of difference of definition we’ve got, because the word I picked is commonly understood to be about treating others with respect and compassion — and I didn’t mean to imply that I thought Raidah was being compassionate, heh.
Raidah isn’t being kind or compassionate here, but nor is she, like, causing any real harm. She made an acerbic comment, clarified what it meant after Dorothy asked, and walked away.
Raidah is kind of the anti-Joyce and that actually makes her fascinating in this comic. Raidah is a mean, clout-chasing, bad friend. However, she is someone who has all the “right” beliefs about society, injustice, and making the world a better place. So she’s an inverse of Joyce who is a good friend, kind, and uninterested in status person who grew up with all the fundamentalist toxicity. Which makes Raidah someone that a lot of fans of the comic want to ignore the fact she’s spot on about Dorothy, Joyce, and their politics.
Especially given Raidah probably gets all manner of shit for being an openly Muslim brown person during these protests.
DOES Raidah have all the “right” beliefs about society and injustice? The thing I remember her most for besides dating Jacob and being Sarah’s nemesis was how horrifically ableist to Dina she was.
Yes, she did. I also remember Joyce having a mental meltdown at the possibility of visiting a mosque when Raidah invited her to visit her family’s one. Which is just as offensive. Two sides, same coin.
But yes, Raidah’s admiration for Jacob was predicated on the fact his brother is a big campaigner for civil rights and that’s where she wants to go as a lawyer as well. Her networking is with the belief she’ll be fighting for people.
TBH The evidence is that Raidah has changed for the worse. The woman we see in Sarah’s flashbacks is nervous, conciliatory, and feels like she does want to actually make friends with her fellow freshmen as she networks. Now she feels cynical and cutthroat, and seems all-too-willing to strike up conversations with people she doesn’t like if she can put them down in the process.
Our only evidence for that being the source of Raidah’s admiration for Jacob were Raidah’s attempts to use Jacob’s admiration for his brother to manipulate him and possibly to suggest the fundy Joyce wouldn’t be okay with the trans rights he’d won a case for.
Sort of a fun inverse. She’s worldly (for a sophomore), comfortable in social situations, and rarely sticks her foot in her mouth but also manipulative and quick to discard people.
I actually read Raidah as anti-Dorothy..Or Dorothy’s opposite number.
They both use people, but Dorothy uses people on an emotional level—and regrets her course of action depending on how serious it is. Raidah uses people on a professional basis because ‘ends justify the means’.
Dorothy would move heaven and earth for Joyce, up to and including giving up all her intentions for furthering a political career that she isn’t even sure she wants anymore—at least not in that way. Her first reaction to Joe wanting Joyce was ‘seek different prey’ and might have done anything to keep them apart.
Raidah would move heaven and earth to reek vengeance upon Sarah for Dana—and has done so. Consider the reality that Raidah has not exactly sought to destroy Joyce for breaking up her and Jacob. Whatever your feelings on Raidah she must have at least had a fondness for him and their relationship, professional gamesmanship aside. Losing Dana though? Raidah seeks to destroy everything that makes Sarah happy to this day.
Finally—politically. Raidah’s focus is on civil rights law. She’s a symphony of shitty behavior as we’ve seen her (partially because she’s an opp for our main cast) but this is a noble goal. Dotty is our favorite neurotic mess trying to keep it all together but only up until recently she wanted what may be the most corrupting job in this country. Politician.
Sometimes Raidah is “not wrong, just an asshole” and I always find her more interesting when she’s in that mode as opposes to her being just a complete bongo.
Raidah is unpleasant and nasty and frequently a selfish social climber, but also her perspective here is completely justifiable.
Not sure if it’s for the reason Radiah thinks but Dorothy and Joyce using the protest as a not so subtle cover for their own issues could definitely come off as insulting to those who are seriously involved.
And Dorothy’s response of “we just take it on the chin” is 100% correct.
Is Raidah wrong about Dorothy and Joyce’s beliefs in this regard? Probably. Its complicated, because *waves vaguely at lots of things*, but third-person-perspective gives us a lot of evidence that Raidah can’t have, we can at least give them the benefit of the doubt for the moment.
But there’s no point in trying to argue against it, even if Raidah was Miss Always 100% Right About Everything And Has Done No Wrong. Part of being in the dominant, oppressive class on a subject like this is that you need to be willing to let people vent, let them talk about the average and try to understand what their actual issue is.
Not that you should NEVER defend yourself. If someone’s coming at you with specific complaints that are factually untrue, that’s another thing. But Raidah’s just venting about unreliable white people who think they’re righteous but will bail at the first sign of backlash, you gain nothing from fighting this, there’s no reason to not let her end it with the last word.
Of course, but the wisest action in this case is to brush off Raidah as being her always-mean self — any further interaction would just prolong the abuse. Let her walk away and go on existing as white freshmen, it’s not like they could change that for Raidah even if they wanted to.
Of course, spread the word to avoid her to all of your friends and acquaintances. Make sure her name is mud everywhere you go.
I wonder if Lucy is onto Raidah’s manipulative toxicity yet?
That’s not why they ORIGINALLY went, but that’s exactly what made Dorothy start fully participating against the wishes of the actual people organizing the protest.
I think the best commentary I’ve seen on reactions like this is:
“Don’t punish people for taking a step in the right direction.”
That will not encourage them to take more steps in the right direction. You don’t have to shower them with praise, and in general you shouldn’t, but ffs, don’t punish them. Encourage them – to take the next step.
I mean, sure, in this case, they weren’t actually there for the protest after all; it was coincidental. But Raidah doesn’t know that, as is evidenced by her own statements. She thinks they were there for it on purpose. And she chooses to punish them for it.
I see way too goddamn much of this out of the American left, and it is both a purity test and a massive self-own, almost a determined effort to keep resistance in a club, pure, correct, and most of all, small and ineffective.
There are exceptions… but they are rare. This is not one.
(I organised a protest in 2007 about the reward-all-the-failures bank bailouts Bush II gave all his friends. Because the word “bank” was involved, the LaRouche cultists tried to join in. I ran those motherfuckers off, chasing and screaming after them all the way past Westlake until I was sure they were gone, because not all allies are acceptable allies. But while there’s a line, this ain’t it.)
Yeah, “let people do the right thing for the wrong reasons” needs a slightly deeper analysis of what is “thing” vs. “reasons” — to amplify your case for people not super familiar with LaRoucheies, “We are protesting against bank bailouts needed due to bank malfeasance” and “we are protesting against banks because they’re run by TEH JOOS” are not the same “thing”, even if they’re both “protesting against the banks”.
Which honestly, gets even more relevant with Gaza protests, because that’s definitely an opportunity for anti-Semites to try to shift opinion in their direction.
I am wondering what steps Raidah is taking, if any on this issue. We got to see people going to protest, counter protest. Carla having a personal crisis of “am I allowed to resist”. Charlie taking an interest in researching the thing. So far we don’t know if Raidah even cares one way or the other.
also saying “you reek” when what it is you’re smelling is tear gas seems in poor taste regardless.
whatever their reasons for being there, they did put themselves in danger, and the smell of tear gas indicates that things did indeed go bad, and that’s worth something.
as a white people, I admittedly can’t really fault the substance of Raidah’s point here, or get mad at her for it. it’s just true. But you’re also entirely right in your own point. I’ve been saying, increasingly loudly and despairingly for the last 6-7 years of the worldwide lurch to the authoritarian right, “they’re winning because they hate us more than they hate each other.”
With occasional and hilarious exceptions, sure, in the case of the individuals with the most concentrated forms of narcissism. But by and large – they’re mostly pragmatic enough not to waste all their ammo (and health gauges) on friendly fire.
It’s also a huge fucking distraction that’s deliberately encouraged and provoked by the opposition. Infighting is worthless to your cause and only helps your enemies.
mm agreed. as a left-leaning person, I feel increasingly like as a cohort, we’ve become self-sufficient in psy-ops. We do it to ourselves now, they don’t gotta lift a finger @ n @;;
The left has always been like this. Monty Python’s portrayal of the various Judean resistance movements in The Life of Brian was a barely exaggerated depiction of the state of leftism in the UK at the time.
I actually agree, that’s the most productive thing to do — but I disagree that a single moment of skepticism is punishing, or telling Joyce and Dorothy off.
Like, she’s already walked away. She expressed skepticism of their motives, then corrected Dorothy that she’s not cynical about protests, she’s cynical about white freshmen — not even white people as a whole! — and then she walked away.
This level of “pushback”, allies need to be strong enough to withstand.
Oh, I disagree that being a white college freshman is an immutable characteristic, heh.
And hey, here again is that different definition of “respect”. Joyce and Dorothy are entitled to respect inasmuch as they shouldn’t have their rights infringed, etc, but they’re not entitled to respect in the sense of having their motivations go unquestioned, or entirely spared discomfort throughout their lives.
Raidah is obviously speaking, from experience, about a type of performative white allyship, and she barely even said anything negative about it before walking away. This doesn’t rise to the level of mistreatment or bullying.
They’re entitled to respect of not having their motivations questioned by nearly a perfect stranger actually. Also being white is immutable. Being a freshman is technically changeable but only by dropping out of yknow…matriculating. The end result is “you, as you are. Are not enough” and that’s really shitty to say to people you barely know about a situation you’re barely privvy to and I think respect SHOULD include not antagonizing people unprovoked.
I disagree. I think Raidah clearly meant white freshman as shorthand for ignorant young liberals who might or might not mean well but do tend to make every political cause they / we show up for kind of about us. And that’s very, very mutable!
It’s also not really unprovoked, Joyce “stole” her boyfriend three months ago and she’s been nursing a grudge ever since. It’s not like Joyce ever apologized to her or has made any effort at making amends, either. It would be actively silly of Joyce to expect Raidah not to be snippy.
“Wow, you two reek.” Not friendly, exactly, but given they smell like chemicals, probably not personally offensive?
“We were at the protest!” A protest against the previous comment. Now, we can’t know what the tone of voice was, but I think “defensive” is probably a fair guess, even if it wasn’t defensive on a personal level.
(Joyce might not even have been feeling defensive about the smell, so much as about running into Raidah, right after Sal caught her and Dorothy a little entangled, while the two of them were worrying about Becky/Joe/Walky’s reactions to the news they intend to break.)
“Uh-huh.” Raidah hears Joyce’s tone, takes in the pair of them, remembers how the last time she spoke to Dorothy, Dorothy wanted to be president, and surmises: “So, did it make you feel better about yourselves?” Because she thinks Dorothy might have been looking for such an opportunity, and she thinks Joyce, recently recovered MAGA-type who tried to steal her boyfriend, might have also been, too. “Did you get the attention you wanted?”
Dorothy clearly already feels very called-out. Dorothy was probably already feeling defensive just at the sight of Raidah, given their last interaction. Dorothy tesponds with an awkward deflection: “I’m surprised you have such a… cynical view of protests.”
Now, this is a passive-aggressive. Whether Dorothy actually means it to be or not, it’s basically an accusation, which the comment section has been more than happy to echo. Assuming Raidah not only didn’t go to the protest at all (even though there were tents there, so we can guess it lasted more than the like 30 minutes we saw on-panel), and furthermore that Raidah must not care about genocide.
Raidah meets Dorothy’s challenge with a disinterested correction: “I’m not cynical about protests. I’m cynical about white freshmen,” said as she strides past them.
Like. Aside from my previous comments about Raidah just not liking Joyce, which I stand by, is this really Raidah just firing off insults for no reason? Or is she responding pretty reasonably to what she’s hearing from these two?
Is it not fair to think that Joyce, who just went to her first-ever protest, expected her response to Raidah’s first comment to… make Raidah feel bad for saying they stink? That Joyce might even have expected praise for their bravery?
Other folks have pointed out that ignorant white allies at protests have a history of escalating things, so smelling like tear gas could easily mean that Joyce and Dorothy had done just that — and, like, Dorothy very well could have, with her impotent little last-stand on a tiny hill clutching a sign that wasn’t even hers. She very well could have antagonized the police presence and gotten other protesters, browner protesters, hurt.
Even if I think Dorothy’s attempted deflection was more an awkward attempt at changing the subject than an intentional attack on Raidah’s politics — is it really that strange for Raidah to receive it as an attack?
The idea that your age, or race makes you a better person is disgusting. So what if they’re white? Does that mean they shouldn’t try to help, or is them helping just abusing their privilege? So what if they’re freshmen? People can help at any, and every age. Does them being young somehow mean their support is fake? If you supported protests since middle school does becoming a freshmen suddenly make it fake?
Fuck you Raidah, but I don’t want you to die; I hope you live a sad, miserable, pathetic life that you continue to believe is everyone else’s fault. So that when you finally pass away you do so bitter, alone, and depressed.
Raidah is 100% right to be pissed at performative activism. Dorothy may care but she decided to protest because of her bisexual fleeing not because she cared about genocide in Bulmeria. She even said she didn’t like protests as a reality, just the concept of them.
So she shouldn’t be encouraging them to keep supporting protests, or do more research, or do so for the right reasons? If they’re not doing it for the right reasons then encourage them to think about the right reasons, or just do better. Just telling them off helps no one.
The Raidah we know is certainly not someone I would trust with any civil rights cases involving the civil rights of autistic people or anyone with an intelctual imparment. Honestly, I’d rather Sarah go into that field. Her I would trust to fight for her clients and not talk down to them in a patronizing fashion and assume she knows better than them what they want, need, and deserve.
Abilist toxic mean girl bullies don’t seem like a good fit for civil rights attorneys.
Given that Raidah seems literally ENTIRELY motivated by personal gain, success, and status, no. No I do not want her to become a civil rights attorney.
Closest thing I can find is her talking about Jacob’s brother over turning an anti-trans law and asking if you can imagine living up to that. Which refers back to an earlier strip where she says living up to Jacob’s brother is what Jacob wants. So yeah all we know is that she’s studying law not what feild of law she wants to specialize in.
And she was clearly playing up Harrison to manipulate Jacob. It’s clear she wants the status and money of a lawyer. Less clear what field of law she’s looking at.
heyyy I’m gonna politely ask you to look up “white saviour syndrome” and then get back to me about why them being white does matter even if they had the best intentions (they didn’t, their feelings towards the protest were neutral)
like I’m sure you’re aware the USA is no stranger to mass protests since the election of certain pathetic reality TV show judge, but specially race relations protests. and you know what’s a common pattern that has emerged? white protesters making it all about themselves, escalating unnecessarily and posting fucking photos and videos of the event on instagram that later gets other protesters (often the people of colour) arrested or killed
good intentions are not enough to not cause harm through ignorance and someone who has a target on her back because she is both brown and Muslim like Raidah has extremely good reason to be wary of white people who don’t know what the fuck they are doing
I don’t have an argument against that. I still think Raidah shouldn’t be hostile, but I did not realize it was that bad, and I’m stunned I didn’t know about it sooner. Thank you.
First off, serious props for reading and apologizing. This is just context.
Every part of what Joyce and Dorothy did re: the protest was horribly irresponsible and ignorant, and was called out as such at the time by every person they spoke to at the protest. Asma, Jocelyne, Amazi-Girl.
And like- yeah, it’s just a series of dumb mistakes. Silly stuff. There’s hardly any reason to expect or want consequences worse than social embarrassment and I’m not making any kind of out of universe ethical judgements. These characters making these mistakes is a fun story for me, being a white US citizen who doesn’t have skin in the game this arc is riffing on and who doesn’t go into cold sweats with memories of what the cops do when they know nobody’s coming to bail you out.
Nonetheless, the common thread between me, you, and the characters is we don’t have to be serious about this because we’re not forced to by real world violence. So.
The way it’s phrased reads like an accusation that Raidah being brown is the motivator for disliking her consistently shitty behavior toward others. What I’m asking for is even one person who’s actually annoyed with her because she’s brown and being impolite to the white girls. If they’re here, I wanna shit-talk ’em too, instead of casting a wide net over people who don’t seem to fit the bill.
It’s asinine to think that people must be outwardly and explicitly unambiguously racist for race to play a role in how someone is perceived. Whether those people realize it or not, what they are doing objectively is criticizing a POC woman for how she chooses to respond to a white woman (Dorothy) who explicitly used this protest as some sort of panacea for her own identity crisis.
For me at least, the characters’ races are incidental and not the point of the criticism. I don’t give a shit what color the antagonistic character is or what color the antagonized characters are, in this situation. Raidah is a petty antagonistic character, that’s her only role, and I’m annoyed by the petty antagonistic character being petty and antagonistic. Treating all criticism like it’s inherently racially motivated doesn’t make sense.
On the other hand when a character has consistantly been a horrible person it’s rather odd for people to assume that the reason posters are uoset with her is related at all to her skin color. People are upset with Raidah not because she’s a brown woman being mean to two white girls. They’re upset because she is consistantly not a bongo but a whole fucking conga line.
Look. I can’t speak for everyone who hates Raidah, but the reason the only living characters who fill me with more rage than she does are Carol, Mary, and Linda (in aproximatly that order) is that she has done nothing to indicate she’s changed in the slightest from one of her earliest strips titled Challenged (title included in case I fucked up the link)
Other characters have said and done shitty things. Most of them have also grown and changed. There is no evidence that she has. The only times we see her are when she says things that are likely true but does so in unnessisarily cruel ways or when her and her friend circle are engaged in high school level toxic mean girl bullshit that involves trying to use Jennifer to climb the rungs of the social ladder.
She’s Mike but worse because at least Mike got a punchline sometimes and seemed to on some level care about his friend group to the extent someone like him is capable of caring. Raidah on the other hand seems to see her friends as resources to be used and discarded when they stop being useful. Or at least when they become a bigger problem for her image than their parents are useful to her.
She doesn’t even have the potential to be a good villain like Carol or Linda. She’s just a hate sink like Mary. Are there posters who hate her because of her skin color or religion? Probably. But it seems like some posters have decided that’s the most likely reason for anyone to post negitively about her when she’s given everyone so many legitimate reasons to never want her on their screens again. I’d love to see more Asma and any other Muslim characters Willis wants to introduce but if I never saw Raidah again unless it’s because Dina gets to beat the shit out of her I’d be really happy.
For some of us it’s less the most likely reason people hate her and more the most plausible reason some people are acting like this is some kind of supernova-level burn of great evil that’s destroying all of politics with moral purity.
And like, also, it’s been two entire houry-doos and some of the shit people have said about Raidah has alreadybeen so fucking hateful it’s gone through the report and delete queue.
I think that’s hard to prove. It’s almost certainly not conscious, for the folks where it’s happening. But it sure does seem like, on aggregate, people are harsher with Raidah than with similar levels of snark from white female characters.
Also in this particular instance, folks are definitely calling her mild criticism of Joyce and Dorothy racist, which is of course silly.
Eh, maybe I’m being too sensitive then. I’m probably more intense about Rachel than Raidah, because at least Raidah has typically had more time to let us understand where she’s coming from, and at least Joyce has given her a reason to dislike her in particular.
But also yeah, if you’re calling this racism on Raidah’s part, unlearn that behavior. It’s not.
It’s okay, at least I think so. Comment section’s been a real mess for like a full month if not longer, we’re all getting frayed tempers.
Raidah is also often written in an unlikable* way! I don’t think anyone needs to feel guilty for not liking her. I just also think the way folks are reacting to her right now is… sus, heh.
* note that unlikable characters can still have fans, it doesn’t quite mean literally impossible to like — on the contrary, unlikable characters are often fan favorites. I just mean Raidah hasn’t been given a ton of traditionally admirable traits — she has moments, but mostly she’s a Mean Girl antagonist:
I googled to double-check, but there’s nothing about the word snark that implies it has to be friendly? Crotchety, snappish, snide, sarcastic, impertinent, irreverent — those are all words I found in Merriam-Webster, trying to explain the term.
So no, I don’t think it’s a bullshit descriptor, though I was all set to apologize for grabbing the wrong word when I was aiming for pithy.
No. She isn’t criticizing them for their race. Heck, she’s barely criticizing them at all. She asked if they feel better about themselves and got the attention they wanted from being at the protest, then when Dorothy tries to deflect by suggesting Raidah is being cynical about protests, Raidah clarifies that she’s not cynical about protests, she’s cynical about performative, ignorant “allies”.
Which is what her comment meant. As anyone with any experience with the type of person she’s talking about knew instantly. No, she didn’t need to use those other words instead of the words she chose, and it frankly does white people like me no good at all to be coddled to that degree. It is absolutely a privilege of whiteness that lets us ignorantly get away with that behavior, and that same privilege makes us less likely to examine our own behavior if we hear those reassuring words, “SOME white people”. I guarantee, the kindness extended by the word “some” causes a lot of us to immediately stop listening.
Because we’ve internalized the idea that, for example, “racism” is something only monsters do, and we know we’re not monsters! So we assume we can’t be racist, and we don’t look at our own behavior to actually make sure, and we don’t change or grow as people… but we do get progressively more sensitive about being described as “white people”, even neutrally.
How dare you call me white, I’m just a person. I’m just a default human. What does being white have to do with unconscious biases? What does being white have to do with ignorance or performative allyship to people of color? Just specify that you’re talking about bad people instead of white people, so that I can stop listening, because I know I’m not a bad person.
That seems like more than enough for a first comment!
She can doubt all she wants and she has every good reason to do so.
But you don’t punish them for showing up, and you don’t punish them for moving towards your side. Even if you think they’re not really sincere about it, you don’t do that unless your intent is to drive them away. That’s just plain how to lose.
And its this constancy of this reaction (and to be clear: from white leftists to white liberals looking left very specifically) that convinced me that the American left (particularly the white American left) is absolutely in love with pure, beautiful failure, and they have got to get over it.
Raidah being cynically impolite isn’t really “punishing” them though. And the point of doing the right thing in activism is that it is done regardless of whether the people you’ve dedicated to helping feel happy about you.
She’s not being cynically impolite, she’s being actively aggressive in shutting down, and belittling them because they said they were at the protest. Their not asking for praise, or expecting anything; they explained why they smelled, and Raidah took it as an opportunity to belittle their efforts. That’s not impolite.
Raidah isn’t belittling them though, she’s being cynically suspect about their motivations, which she has the right to be, especially when she correct in this instance.
She is absolutely belittling them. Absolutely doing so, from a position of assuming they were there on purpose, when they really kinda weren’t. (They went there to warn Joyce’s sister about dad.)
Sure, she’s using questions to do it, but those purely rhetorical questions are absolutely belittling insults, assertions that they were there solely to feel better about themselves and to get attention.
Maybe there’s a way to deliver those questions which does not drip with contempt, but that’s how I would read them. Like Dorothy and Joyce here, I’d keep my mouth shut – but there’s no way in hell that’s not a belittling attack, and contemptuous as hell on top of it.
I don’t draw a line between contemptuousness and belittling, seeing it as in and of itself belittling. If you do, then… okay. Certainly not my experience, but okay.
Her accusation is not really right tho’. And more importantly, she doesn’t know or believe any of what we do; she thinks they were there intentionally for the protest. Given that as her basis of knowledge, whatever “rightness” is in her accusation is coincidental, and I don’t think that counts. It’s still belittling in addition to the belittling of contempt.
(And even if you include what we know, I mean… depending upon how you read Dorothy’s – what I read as self-destructiveness peaking, she’s still wrong.
Frankly, I was kind of confused by what she was doing here. But what I took from it wasn’t some kind of a desire to feel better about herself or get attention, but a desire to finish herself off. Not out and out suicide by cop, but to get kind of personally destroyed, if that makes any sense.
Joyce, on the other hand, was just there to warn her sister, and then later, to stop Dorothy from completely imploding. (and this isn’t the point, but this doesn’t bode the best for their relationship, but it’s salvageable. this is why as much as I am on Team Sickos, I really wanted them getting together at the end, rather than now.)
I mean Dorothy at the very least considers her comment correct, and while it certainly wasn’t only factor motivating Dorothy’s actions at the end of the protest, Dorothy needing to feel better about herself still was a factor regardless.
That’s not being impolite. Impolite would be, “ugh, well, ffs go take a shower, you stink.” What she does here is attack their characters in a way that absolutely does discourage followup.
Ironically in this case, she’s wrong for the wrong reasons, but she doesn’t know that. Her dialogue says she was assuming they were there for the intended purpose of the protest, and she attacks their motives and intent as they stand there reeking of tear gas.
This isn’t about feeling happy about them. This is about not driving borderline people away from your own side. And don’t give me any shit about “they aren’t worthwhile if they aren’t willing to take the abuse,” because 1) this is a numbers game and it’s numbers and turnout that count, so driving “insincere” people away is intensely stupid if you want to win, and frankly, 2) that’s literally just an abusive anyway. I mean, it’s classic couples abuse, and it doesn’t stop being abusive because it’s in the context of a political movement.
If Raidah being justifiably cynical of the motives of white women makes them lose their desire to do the right thing then they never had it in the first place. POC should not have to encourage white people to stand on the right side of issues.
As I said, she can be cynical of the motives of white women all she wants to, and she has cause. But you DON’T go and personally attack people who are showing up on your side. Even if they aren’t pure enough. NOT IF YOU WANT TO WIN.
The reality, whether you like it or not – and I speak as someone who has been fighting these battles for decades – is that a lot of your allies start out weak. AT BEST. A lot of the time they aren’t even actually for you, they’re more against the other side. AND THEN AS THEY WORK WITH YOU THEY ACTUALLY MOVE TO YOUR SIDE, IF YOU DON’T ATTACK THEM LIKE THIS.
Sure. It’d be nice if this didn’t matter. If they’d stay anyway. But that’s not how humans work.
So sure, go ahead, drive them off before they can learn more and maybe become more sincerely on your side. I’m sure that’ll help the cause tremendously. But ask yourself:
Do you want A) a perfectly pure and tiny cadre that always loses or B) to bring people over step at a time, watch some of them become more sincere and attached, and maybe win?
Because this – course A – is absolutely not how you win.
Raidah’s is a jerk and her comment is harsh, but it does not qualify as “being a personal attack” especially when her comment is spot-on. Raidah’s comment may not be the most 100% tactically smart thing to do, but oppressed people aren’t obligated to always be “on” and doing the most efficient and politically tactical behavior.
I talked about this some above already (look for “July 25, 2025 at 12:46 am”) so look up there if you want.
But other than that:
Speaking as a member of an oppressed class who has received enough physical violence as a result that I have to be careful how I protest these days, your comment about “oppressed people can’t always be ‘on’ and doing the most efficient and politically tactical behaviour” is correct.
But there are times you really gotta make the effort, and two semi-friends coming back stinking of tear gas from a protest that just got beat down by the cops is very definitely one of those times.
Dorothy and Joyce are not even remotely friendly with Raidah, and she in particular has every reason to loathe Joyce. Where is “semi-friends” coming from?
I agree that this is one of the times where it would be good to make the effort, I just don’t think Raidah’s failure to do so in this instance makes her worthy of chastisement.
Maybe not to you, but somewhere up there I said I’m pretty sure I’d’ve kept my mouth shut, just like Joyce and Dorothy did, for all the obvious reasons. It’s still a jackass thing to say, but I’d’ve let it go.
And had this been one of the times when I’ve been in Raidah’s position, I’m pretty sure I would’ve done better, and I know in the past that I have. Because we have to.
Speaking as one of those privileged white people: comments like Raidah’s don’t make me less politically engaged, but they do sometimes make me decide to go and be politically engaged somewhere else.
People are not actually ever going to be always polite and kind and helpful and educational in random driveby conversations they have with people they know as “that jackass who tried to steal my boyfriend and some other lady who apparently forgot the United States bombs people when designing her entire life” and creating a huge blowup because someone was… correct??? about what happened??? is absolutely the sort of thing someone should apply powder to the chafing about.
Like yes she is being rude but she’s also right, being right is why it’s rude, why the hell is this a big deal?
She’s right but she’s coincidentally right. It would be like someone assuming I like watermelon. I do. It’s delicious. But the reason you’re assuming that can still be wrong even if you’re right.
I mean, Raidah has a tendency to guide conversations just to put people down. She isn’t 100% wrong, but her own track record as a person makes me doubt her sincerity in general
Yeah, it’s not the “admitting they’re white to their faces” thing that’s annoying, that’s just a surface-level observation. It’s the instant and immediate hateful attitude toward people she just happened to see. I can at least understand Joyce being a target since she wrecked Raidah and Jacob’s relationship on purpose (even though it’s been months, get the fuck over it girl), but all Dorothy ever did was stand there and she still catches shit.
For a second there, I thought you were talking about Raidah and almost started an archive crawl to find where I missed that arc. ^_^
Cassandra was a princess of Troy. Troy had a major temple of Apollo there (which is why he was on their side during the war). Cassandra, as princess of Troy, served in the temple of Apollo. Apollo wanted to fuck Cassandra. In an attempt to woo her, he gave her the gift of prophecy. Cassandra turned Apollo down, which incensed the most bro of the gods. So the shiny bastard then changed his blessing into a curse. Cassandra could still see the future but now no one would believe her.
Cassandra then got a prophecy that her little brother Paris, then an infant, would grow up to cause the destruction of the entire city. But the curse meant that when she tried to warn everyone, no one would listen. Desperate, she stole the infant Paris from his crib and tried to throw him off the city walls. Unfortunately for everyone, she failed. This also caused everyone to regard her as insane.
Real Terminator II Sarah Connor vibes there. (I know that movie was basically a retelling of that story.)
She’s interested in the truth only when it’s a weapon. She absolutely cloaked Jennifer’s entrance into her social circle in the language of protecting her from an escaped abusive relationship IIRC
First of all, Jennifer and Ruth’s relationship was absolutely abusive. Raidah wasn’t calling it abusive; it was abusive and Raidah accurately describes it as such.
Second, truth is a knife that can only cut lies. Free yourself from lies and the truth can never hurt you. Like in that one TNG episode or Inuyasha.
Finally, Raidah is a scheming climber and that’s a valid reason to not like her. But she’s not a liar.
I mean, isn’t that kind of what Dorothy did before the big kiss? They may have originally gone in with the intent of making sure Jocelyne was okay, but her running back in to wave that sign around instead of leaving before things escalated sure looked like she was making it about herself.
Like, sure, Raidah is still pretty awful for making assumptions like that, but with Dorothy I can’t help but feel we have a stopped clocked situation.
Yes, it is exactly what Dorothy did and Dorothy is acknowledging it right there. Still an uncalled for assumption for Raidah to make due to her not being at the protest, but she was actually right and it does give Dorothy something to think about.
The best you can say about Dorothy is that one of the things she was trying to make herself feel better was from supporting the status quo for so long. A lot of people seem to be of the impression her big action was solely due to Joyce, but that is not right. She was moved by the protest and by the unfairness of the draconian response, that is also a big motivating factor for her to adhere to it.
Still, the way she did it was mostly boneheaded, impulsive and against the protest organization itself. It ultimately did very little other than assuage her own guilt. So Raidah is not entirely wrong and it is good on Dorothy to recognize that.
I’m not sure how moved Dorothy actually was, it seemed she was saying the right things but the subtext was she didn’t want to let go of Joyce so threw herself into the cause to forget but stopped caring the moment she got what she really wanted.
It was both. To not think it is both it is to assume she was lying through her teeth for the whole “your anger is a tool for kindness” speech. And that, I think, is an incredibly unfair reading of the character and a very uncharitable reading of the story.
As for “stopped caring the moment she got what she really wanted”, that requires you to assume the story ends here and the Dorothy political awakening plotline won’t be explored further.
Not lying to Joyce but to herself. She didn’t want to admit she just didn’t want to let go of Joyce’s hand and go back to real life so she first stalled by talking about at the exit then when they were out of talking points she clings to Joyce’s anger as a tool of kindness as a connection to Joyce before committing a metaphorical cry for help.
Oh cool I see we’re at the fragile white allies portion of the evening.
Dorothy and Joyce in the last panel are correct folks, it’s okay that Raidah was like. Mildly confrontational before walking away. I promise you as a fellow white person, we will overcome (lol) the mild discomfort of having our identities pointed out.
People are so quick to reflexively filing shit at Raidah because she’s an antagonist that they do it even when she’s pretty much right. It was the same when she punctured Dorothy’s presidential aspirations. She was literally right, just nasty about it. Like, Raidah is a brown Muslim woman, she has every right to be skeptical of white liberal woman making the protest about themselves – which is what Dorothy did btw!
I REALLY want to like Raidah, she has such a cool design and I’m admittedly sometimes very shallow. Like ever since Willis started drawing her eyebrows thicker, I have been extra taken with her.
That said, I don’t think it’s actually that hard to imagine things from her perspective, and I’d love to see Dana show up to either prove to Sarah that Raidah was right about going home being more dangerous for her than continuing to spiral, or to prove Sarah right that she was in much worse shape than Raidah thought.
Of course, by this point their tension is more than just that one incident, and I tend to think Joyce “ruining” things with Jacob* is a bigger thorn in Raidah’s side by now and that she really is first and foremost trying to ruin Joyce’s life by destroying her friend group, with damage to Sarah being more of a bonus.
* I put ruining in quotes because what Harrison said about Joyce and Jacob would still be a factor even if Joyce had never stuck her nose in and tried to sabotage things — Jacob did try to find a girlfriend he thought his big brother would approve of, and then he apparently never found anything about her noteworthy enough to share with Harrison, even while telling him all about Joyce. The best possible read there is that Jacob was just nervous that Harrison might still not like Raidah, I think, and I don’t think Raidah would actually be glad that his opinion was THAT much of a factor…
Plus, it takes two to tango. While it’s fair to be angry at the “other woman”, too, nothing would have happened between Jacob and Joyce if Joyce’s feelings had been truly one-sided.
Like all in all, I think Jacob and Raidah were a little doomed.
But I do also understand why she’d want revenge. I think it’s human.
(As for Raidah’s off-the-cuff comment to Dorothy — while I think it’s ultimately unproductive to be like, “no one who wants the job of president can possibly be a good choice for the position,” I think some readers… well, some of the folks who are mad at Raidah for saying what she said to Dorothy just because it hurt Dorothy’s feelings and protagonist-centered morality is very much a thing, but I wouldn’t be surprised if some of the folks who are mad at her for saying it are also (understandably) frustrated both by the idea of Dorothy giving up on her dreams**, and it’s easy to blame Raidah’s comment for both that and Dorothy’s whole spin-out here that ultimately resulted in her and Joyce kissing, so why not blame Raidah for all of the things we aren’t enjoying in the comic right now? Heh. Can’t fault the efficiency.
Meanwhile, the truth is that Raidah is a lot like Yoko Ono. She wasn’t actually the cause of any of this, she just happened to be there when things were already falling apart.)
Oh my god okay fixing typos and sentences that got lost—
“well, some of the folks who are mad at Raidah for saying what she said to Dorothy are mad just because it hurt Dorothy’s feelings and because protagonist-centered morality is very much a thing”
and also
“but I wouldn’t be surprised if some of the folks who are mad at her for saying it are also (understandably) just frustrated by the idea of Dorothy giving up on her dreams**, and it’s easy to blame Raidah’s comment for both that and Dorothy’s whole spin-out here that ultimately resulted in her and Joyce kissing”
which of course never got its footnote.
** I know I’ve seen it pointed out, for example, that we do already have a lot of stories wherein ambitious women who put their career before the idea of love get “corrected” by the narrative and wind up giving up on their ambitions completely, or at least reorienting them to be something less lofty.
This is as frustrating as it is because we rarely see stories where the same thing happens to a man. The closest I think we reliably come is where a man gives up, say, making partner at a law firm to spend more time with his wife and kid, but oh, don’t worry, he’s going to start his own practice, so his “downgrade” is to be his own boss and run his own law firm. Which is actually just as ambitious in its own way. Hm. Not really the same message!
It’s still wrong to blame this on Raidah. And I don’t think it’s where Willis was trying to steer Dorothy’s character. I don’t think she was ever being “punished” for being unrealistic in her goals. I think it’s more that Willis’s own politics shifted, like many of us (white people), becoming more politically aware of, say, the state of the police, and no longer finding Dorothy’s ambition “lofty and admirable”, but instead kind of “tone deaf”.
I’m’a quibble with you on one point – I think (unlike Yoko Ono) it’s pretty valid to think Raidah is at least misguided if not wrong in terms of her demonstrated engagement with people in terms of their perceived worth to her long-term plans as opposed to as, y’know, people.
Honestly? I don’t think we’ve seen enough of Raidah to know that she sees everyone like that, instead of just being shrewd in her choice of associates in college, where she’s pointed out the importance of networking — something Sarah also valued back when she finally gave in to Dana’s attempts to include her in things.
I think Sarah was always a bit of a curmudgeon but became more of one because Liz kept “stealing” her boyfriends and because things with Dana’s group went so sour — but I also think what we saw of Raidah in that flashback? Seemed perfectly likable, and that Dana crashing out and then getting sent home soured her. “Losing” Jacob to Joyce soured her further. And NOW she’s someone who actively schemes and pretends to like her friends…
…but I don’t think that was necessarily always the case, and I still don’t think it’s necessarily her only mode of operation.
She was a little condescending in how she talked about Jacob, but it’s hard to say how much of that was overcompensating for being jealous and hating being jealous — something she certainly wanted to think she was above! And something I think a lot of us would like to think we, too, were above.
We’ve seen a lot of Raidah being a Mean Girl about and with Jennifer and Joyce, and I’m certainly not trying to argue she’s a sweet person, haha. Just that I don’t think she’s a 2D villain, where all her traits have to be negative all the time in every situation.
Also her long-term plans include being a civil rights lawyer! Something a lot of readers have definitely forgotten, since there’s a lot of “as IF Raidah cares about genocide” takes today, heh.
Can you link to where she said she wants to be a civil rights lawyer? As I said above all I can find is her on a date with Jacob saying that his brother is a lot to live up to and a strip earlier than that telling her friends that Jacob wants to live up to him. Nothing about her wanting to be a civil rights lawyer.
So, I checked, and here are the breadcrumbs, as I see them:
— We know her father is a lawyer. She may or may not be one of the people in Dana’s old friend group whose dad specifically runs a law firm (Dana said “two, maybe three” of them, not counting her — and the group is only five people — but Raidah could be the exception). [1]
— We know Raidah herself intends to be a lawyer, she’s said it many times — but there are indications that, at the very least, she’s not planning on being a nonconfrontational corporate lawyer, because one of the times she said it, she also said she and Jacob were going to wind up with long lists of people who want to punch them. [2]
— Yes, she talked about Jacob’s brother, who we know is a civil rights lawyer, and she’s talked about the pressure he feels to live up to him, but she’s also said she, herself, is something Jacob needs to “live up to the standards of his family”, and she mentioned Joyce’s major when she said it. Considering that Raidah is a Muslim, and we know Jacob is an Episcopalian (and not devoutly so), I think it’s reasonable to assume that Raidah thinks they’ll approve of her because of her career aspirations. And a family that’s proud of a son who won a landmark case for civil rights is… unlikely to be as impressed by a young woman who just wants to be a lawyer. [3]
And Harrison even says that he expected Jacob to have hooked up with another “stuffy, by-the-numbers lawyer like [him]”, further adding to the idea that Raidah’s lawyerly aspirations are similar to Harrison’s path. [4]
— Finally, there’s just the specific way she criticized Dorothy’s aspiration to be president, by describing it as a job that more or less requires you to commit war crimes. [5]
I will fully admit to reading into that! To thinking that it, plus almost* everything else she’s said, indicated that she wasn’t planning on being a prosecutor, or using a career in law to maneuver into politics. At the very least, she must plan to be a defense attorney, right?
There’s also a beat in the conversation Raidah has with Joyce, after she asks her what her major is, and Joyce says elementary education, and Raidah comments that it’s a noble profession (with a low salary), and that “we can’t all lead glamorous lives”.
I’m not sure if this is meant to indicate Raidah expects to make a lot more than 50k per year? Indiana would pay her about twice that much as an average civil rights lawyer (107k), which of course isn’t poverty wages, but as the cost of living continues to rise… heh. “Lawyer” isn’t automatically a super high-paying career: graduating from a prestigious law school and getting a job at a prestigious law firm is your best bet for money, and civil rights law specifically doesn’t pay all that much, especially when you factor in the cost of student loans.
We don’t know enough about Raidah’s plans to know whether she expects a “glamorous life”, and also it’s been seven years since she made that comment! It might be that when Willis checked, the cost of living to salary ratio was a lot more favorable for whoever state they thought Raidah would want to live and work in (because it’s totally possible she doesn’t intend to stay in Indiana).
But. Yeah. Like I said, ALMOST everything she’s said about her career aspirations lines up with being a “white hat” attorney of some sort: civil rights, environmental law, immigration law, or just defense attorney in general. She’s mostly said things that suggest a noble career aspiration, which she’ll achieve via social climbing and networking, and being a jerk to the protagonists in the meantime doesn’t really detract from that.
For sure, it IS literally twice the average salary.
I also meant to slip in there that I know I only learned this bit about vastly different levels of Lawyer Salary from Legal Eagle and Crazy Ex-Girlfriend, long after that strip, so if Willis had just assumed she’d be making Glamorous Money, I wouldn’t blame them.
Raidah is an asshole, but she does make good points occasionally, like in this strip, and the one where she criticized Dorothy about her desire to become president.
Like, the way Raidah is most wrong is that her words are directed equally to Joyce who, frankly, actually did nothing wrong (regarding the protest). And even that is not worth quibbling about because her cynicism regarding the motivation of a white girl who never shown any interest in the topic is is entirely understandable.
Even if she was wrong (which she isn’t), her cynicism is completely justified. The vast majority of white people are AWFUL about this stuff. Even a lot of allies are self-centered and oversensitive. Expecting POC to validate their feelings even when they’re talking over them and taking up excess space. It’s sad to see.
When a white person receives this sorta comment, they should grin and bear it and then move on. We need to DEMONSTRATE that we’re good people who’ll actually help. Our word means nothing in a world filled with empty platitudes and brownie point farming.
Hurt feelings are a thing that happens sometimes and can’t be controlled, but what you do next is always on you. In this case, we should take a breath, and examine the comment to see if maybe the reason we’re feeling defensive is that we’re afraid their comment accurately describes our behavior.
If, on reflection, it doesn’t — congrats to us, that comment wasn’t specifically about us: so we can move on with our lives, while also being mindful of both our own behavior in the future and our fellow white people’s behavior in similar situations.
Sucks, but a racist, say, will always give more credence to an opinion coming from “their side”, and whenever it’s safe for us to do so (including spoon safety), we should use that to our advantage to help call them out, or do what we can to help deprogram them. Deradicalize the radicalized.
(Spoon safety: referring here to energy and resources in kind of a general sense. Plenty other types of marginalization that can make it less safe to speak up, and of course you still gotta put on your metaphorical oxygen mask before you help other passengers with theirs…)
Bleh. Ramble ramble. Hopefully my points are still coming through.
They definitely have. And I agree with them. Mostly. Every right-winger and bigot I’ve argued with didn’t listen to a word I said. I always came away from those conversations with the feeling that I wasted my time. And that’s the best case scenario.
Honestly, it’s rare for a SINGLE conversation to have an impact, especially in the moment! But you might have had more of an impact than you realize. Seeds get planted sometimes that don’t bloom until later.
I swear, EVERY page you manage at least one comment that makes me spray milk out my nose. I don’t know how you do it. I don’t even have any milk in the house.
I think it was just a guess, based on what she knows about them. I suspect her enmity for Joyce is more personal and deeper than that one barb she launched at Dorothy, and that, as such, she’s probably kept closer tabs on her. I wouldn’t be surprised if she knows Joyce is dating Joe, in which case, knowing about the kiss would’ve looked different.
That said: I did pretty much just use variants of the word “assume” three times, so.
Yeah, I don’t think she knows anything. She starts with “you reek”, which she might not even have recognized as tear gas smell. They tell her they were at the protest and she makes some jabs based on what she knows about them and general cynicism about white freshmen.
Mind you, if there IS a social media explosion centering the kiss at the expense of the messaging of the protest, Raidah will be very justified in circling back to give these two a massive side-eye heh.
She really doesn’t. They went to the protest for selfless reasons. Incredibly stupid, ill-thought-out reasons that had little to do with the protest itself, but still.
The point being Raidah doesn’t know that and just assumed the worst. Because she is the worst.
Raidah might technically be making a valid point about performative activism or white complicity, but that doesn’t matter when her intent is clearly to hurt people. She wasn’t at the protest. She doesn’t care about the cause. She’s just using big-picture issues as a weapon to make others feel small. That’s not righteous it’s petty. And that’s why, even if her words sound insightful, they’re hollow. Because at the end of the day, Raidah is still an asshole
We don’t know for a fact that Raidah wasn’t at the protest. Like, yeah, we don’t know for a fact that she was, either, but there were plenty of silhouetted protesters in the background and any one of them could have been her.
Let’s be real. Raidah wasn’t at the protest she does not look like she was at the protest. If she had been, she would’ve led with that instead of throwing smug little barbs about attention. This isn’t ambiguity. It’s character consistency. She didn’t go, and now she’s using a serious issue to make herself feel superior. Stop defending assholes just because they happen to say something technically correct.
Eh. It’s been at least an hour since the tear gas, and she could’ve been there earlier in the day, or even in the week — folks had tents set up, after all. I agree that she probably wasn’t present when the tear gas happened, or else she would recognize the smell, but I bet Willis didn’t actually mean to imply she hadn’t been at the protest at all.
Again Radiah is an asshole.I’m pretty sure she didn’t go to the protest, and even if she did, she’s clearly using this moment to hurt people, not to speak truth to power. Yeah, her point might technically be correct, but it’s poisoned by the intent. Same thing happened when she told Dorothy she couldn’t be complicit in becoming president because she’d have to commit war crimes. Was that a fair critique of American politics? Sure. But coming from Raidah, it wasn’t about principle, it was about making Dorothy feel small. It’s like when Tucker Carlson criticized Orange Julius Caesar over Epstein. Even if he had a point, it rang hollow because it came from Tucker Carlson, and he’s an asshole. That’s Raidah in a nutshell, technically right, morally empty. Insert Futurama meme.
I don’t think Raidah is, like, a Captain Planet villain. I think she can be an asshole, especially to our protagonists, one of whom her ex-boyfriend cheated on her with, and still care about protests against genocide. That’s not a very high bar to clear.
Good, we wouldn’t want people protesting ethnic cleansing for the wrong reasons. Way more important to focus on moral purity than stopping state sponsored murder.
Y’all, they were there for five minutes for unrelated reasons and then actively refused to follow the instructions of the people who organized the protest i.e. knew what they were doing, in order to solve some random unrelated personal shit of theirs.
At some point you’re just projecting random unrelated internet politics arguments onto this.
Does she really know Dorothy in specific? She knows Dotty wanted to be the President and talked shit to her about that, but I don’t recall any other time they’ve interacted.
I don’t actively remember, but I also don’t remember how she knew that about Dorothy. Or that they’re both freshmen. Or a lot of things that she actively seems to know the few times she’s run into them.
Which kinda makes me think her sources may be partially or entirely offscreen, but also, my memory can be shit, so hey.
New headcanon: Raidah has wiretapped every bedroom in the building and every night she spends a couple of hours skimming through the audio for info on the residents.
For my own part, I’ll say she knows enough about Joyce to at least dislike her and not want to be around her for any reason. The little homewrecker can’t really say much about that.
Anti-genocide is a big enough tent that even random bystanders that are there accidentally can fit under it. To say that they don’t fit is to say they’re either pro-genocide, or ambivalent about it, both of which are massive insults. If you have a subject (genocide) you want people to have a certain opinion (it is bad) about, then implicitely insulting them isn’t going to help your case. So welcome anyone with open arms, regardless of their reasons for being there.
it’s never a bad thing to want people to be more informed about the issue they’re protesting about (especially if they’re risking getting injured by the police to do it) and I think it’s entirely valid to be frustrated with people who join causes because they’re trendy rather than because they have actual strong feelings about the movement
Wanting people to be more informed and feeling frustrated are both valid, but excluding people from the anti-genocide umbrella for that reason is vile. You’re basically calling less perfect protestors enemies of decency.
Her entire Thing is performative concern. Wanting to be the president to “fix” things with no idea how any of it worked, her spastic antics with Joyce’s autism, the way she turned a party into a mike eulogy, ect.
Until she had her break down, she’s been THE caricature of “Good Intention-ed but Woefully Dense Middle Class White Girl” and is hopefully going to get smacked by the Truck-kun of Consequences.
Gonna make the prediction now that The Kiss was caught on camera and went (to some extent) viral, and that Raidah’s dialogue in panel 2 is 100% throwing shade on them for that specifically.
Radiahs dialouge could definitely be interpreted that way, “thanks /s/ for hijacking a very serious and important issue, now your all the media talks about.”
It wouldn’t surprise me if that’s the case. There definitely could already be pictures of Joyce and Dorothy kissing at the protest online, and Raidah may have seen them.
I honestly think Raidah would have been a lot pettier than throwing some light shade at them for being white and attention-seeking if the girl who’s Sarah’s bestie/roomie, who also caused Jacob to break up with her, was caught kissing someone at the protest. Doubly so if she knows Joyce is technically currently in another relationship already, and Raidah has been shown on-screen to care about who’s dating who when it’s relevant to her social agendas and petty revenge-seeking (such as Sarah/Tony), and Joyce hasn’t been quiet about dating Joe. I definitely don’t think Raidah would be this casual about it without some kind of ominous hint that she’s already started enacting a plan to hasten the ruin of their respective social lives.
A person assumes that the rest of the world *must* think and feel like they do, because the way they think and feel seems like the most normal, natural thing in the world.
It’s why abusers often criticize others of doing what they are, in that moment doing. Or why cheaters start thinking that their partner is cheating. Every other explanation seems contrived.
On a slightly lighter note, is there anything that Raidah HASN’T been cynical about? She’s arguably even more cynical than Billie/Jennifer, because at least the latter still genuinely fell for Ruth.
Nothing I can think of. Pretty much all she has are negative remarks, ladder climbing, and surface-level observations. I don’t think she’s capable of joy.
I mean, she turned him down for fooling around because she wanted him to study so that he could follow in his brother’s career footsteps, so… Is that happiness? Seems like more ladder climbing.
Huh, Raidah showed up…Ooh, does this mean were gonna see more happy Sarah? It’s either Raidah being manipulative or things not going her way by my memory.
Raidah has shown an interest in the fact that Walky’s mother used to date the dean. She seems to have as much interest in Walky as she does Jennifer. Maybe less although I don’t know if that’s really possible.
Sup, Yoto. How it going? Fellow black guy here. Just saying there’s inherently a huge difference between being called “a black guy” disparagingly over what’s happened here.
Just clarifying that. Like there’s reasons we’d feel bad about that Joyce and Dorothy will never have to experience.
Not trying to start a whole racism debate. Just saying I get it but we might have different life experiences from he two white girls.
We’re only talking about taking offense here. You don’t have to be comfortable with anyone disparaging you even if it’s true. I’m also a Cis Het man but I don’t like being made to feel bad about it.
Aye, its fine for Dorothy and Joyce to be somewhat offended by Raidah’s dismissive comment lumping them in with all the unreliable white freshman that barge into activist spaces to feel better about themselves and then flee when consequences start being threatened.
But Dorothy’s still right that the correct thing to do here is just take it on the chin. Neither Dorothy or Joyce really care about Raidah’s opinion of them, there’s hardly an argument they could make that would persuade her without actual evidence, and trying would just be more evidence that they were present for the feels, not to do the right thing.
If the punch doesn’t really hurt you and responding to it would only make things worse… then why bother?
I’d say she’s not wrong about THESE particular two young white protesters. I think it’s problematic in a general sense to paint groups of people with a broad brush. Joyce and Dorothy uniquely can’t make a comeback BECAUSE they’re guilty of not taking the cause seriously, but that doesn’t mean that none of the white freshmen there were just being performative.
Not all, but it’s not a bad assumption. And she does know both Joyce and Dorothy a little, so she’s got a little more than just “white freshmen” to go on.
I do suspect she would have made the same assumption about Jocelyne if she’d come back with them and would have been wrong there.
It just occurred to me, does Raidah even know Joyce is not a fundie anymore? Like, they barely interacted post time skip. Their most significant interaction was back when Joyce was actively trying (and kinda succeeding) to steal Jacob. And back then, Joyce was still the kind of person to jump back upon learning someone was a Muslim.
So, like, Raidah has extra motivation to be skeptical of anything Joyce does.
To be slightly fair, Joyce is jumping back not cos Raidah is a Muslim but because she was Jacob’s gf at the time and Joyce was actively trying to seduce him. Other than that though, you’re totally right. I was just thinking about that.
The whiny white people in the comments are forgetting about things like context again. Both cultural context and individual character context in this case.
I am pretty sure it is because she is a muslim, actually. On the 3rd and 4th panels Joyce jumped back a little bit because Raidah appeared. That is because she was Jacob’s gf. But in the last panel she is even further away and even more panicked and that is after Raidah invited Joyce to a mosque. At very minimum, it does seem like a reaction to the mosque mention from Raidah’s perspective, which is very in line which would be expected of Joyce (or, like, most WASPs in the USA).
At the time she was also already shell shocked by Jacob”s Episcopal church (because it looks Catholic) so being even more flustered with trying to deal with a mosque is pretty much guaranteed.
I think she already knew Raidah is Muslim, I don’t think he religion in of itself is what made her recoil, it’s Raidah putting her on the spot with the invite that did it
Oh yeah, I remember now. This is basically what I assumed as well. That she was being an autistic goober who hates even small change, let alone big change.
I think it was both! She definitely reacted with guilty panic to Jacob’s girlfriend showing up right when she was putting a hand on his arm (see the motion blur as she yanks her hand back), but also the alt text in particular puts a fine point on it also being about Raidah being Muslim (“if you want to convert, freak out and run away”).
Also, Raidah has every reason to THINK it was Islamophobia even if it wasn’t.
I don’t think we know. She definitely described Joyce as a bubblebrained MAGA-ass girl when Jacob told her about the cheating, and Jacob basically said that wasn’t fair of her, but not in a way that objected to any specific parts of it, so Raidah might well think he thought “bubblebrained” was going too far.
Since then… who knows? I suspect she’s been keeping at least some tabs on Joyce through Jennifer, but I was thinking more in terms of Raidah proooobably knowing Joyce and Joe are dating, rather than about Joyce’s shifting politics. :|a
Wait, how does Raidah know about the extent of Dorothy and Joyce’s involvement in the protest? They went in last minute. Have photos of their kiss circulated social media already?
It’s possible there are pictures of them kissing at the protest online already. Or maybe Raidah is just guessing based on the fact that they told her they were at the protest.
Its just raidah being an asshole to some white freshman for daring to be at a protest she didn’t think they belong at. She makes it pretty clear in the strip.
Judging by how hard Raidah decimated Dorothy’s whole worldview the last time they talked, I’m guessing this must be the start of Dorothy’s “pivot to the alt-right” arc.
(Before I get a billion hate comments, I’m being sarcastic.)
Has Raidah ever done a single positive, friendly, or selfless thing in the entire comic’s run? I genuinely don’t think she has to my memory.
This is that “Roz attacks Joyce for deconstructing” shit from Leslie’s class all over again. Raidah may be right but it’s not about *what’s* right to her, it’s about *being* right. It’s about being better than everyone else around her, always.
She called out her friend when she called Dina a slur (albeit after being condescending to Dina herself). She also did seem to like Jacob.
But, yeah, Raidah is kind of an awful person. I used to think she was at least nice to her friends, but the way she treated Jennifer after she dumped Asher makes me question that. But even if she is shitty, it doesn’t mean she is in the wrong 100% of the time about everything. (she is not Mary)
The thing is, if she’s treating Jennifer like that I’ve got to wonder if she’s doing the same thing to the rest of them behind their backs. They all seem to have at least one connection she keeps them around for.
Someone like Raidah doesn’t have what you or I would consider “friends.” She’s got a network. People who think she’s their friend and will do her a favor here or there. She values people specifically for their potential benefit and connections, and she uses the language of people who actually give a damn in order to appear better, more caring, more supportive; than others.
It did raise the question, but so far we haven’t seen her talk similarly behind Carl’s back, and we don’t know what happened with Char and Chan. Chan, we last saw being concerned for Raidah about Joyce stealing Jacob; Chan, in the flashback where Raidah “welcomed” Jennifer into the fold, asking Jennifer if she’d considered losing weight.
What we do know is that Asher didn’t seem “in” on the plan wrt Jennifer, and indeed seems to have genuinely liked Jennifer as a person, very much unlike Raidah or Carl.
But the thing is, if someone Raidah have been hanging out for what is implied to be months is not one of her friends, then who is? Do we know? Like, we would assume Carl, Cher and Dana, but if we only saw her being friendly with Jeniffer we would thought the same. It could be the camera just happen to never show Raidah being shitty towards Calr and Cher, it is hard to tell.
That is why I said her treatment of Jeniffer made me question her friendships. We can’t really know, so it is hard to count as one of Raidah’s good sides.
Hurting Joyce and Sarah is a side benefit. Or killing two birds with one stone at least. I was under the impression that while she did see that potential she’d wanted to bring Jennifer into her fold to have an in with the wealthy Billingsworth family. Mostly taken on the emphasis of who her parents are when she was introduced to her friends.
I don’t think that’s actually what that was, but like, at THAT point I’m even deeper into my cork board covered in red string, so agree to disagree there 🙂
Being a clout chaser and a gold digger has been like, literally her *entire* personality up to this point (aside from the rivalry with Sarah).
Walky: Connected to the dean. She brings it up multiple times. (https://www.dumbingofage.com/2022/comic/book-12/04-dont-stop-billie-ving/poutine/) Nearly from the start.
Asher: Has his own “connections”.
Jacob: Lawyer who she wanted to get in with. Also bonus points for trashing Joyce primarily for being basic and low status.
She does have Char and Chan, her friend group we saw her with for a while who seemed to be just her friends without social connections. Curiously, both of whom have *entirely* vanished from the comic since the time skip spare one flashback to halloween with only Char being introduced to Jennifer.
I also think she was just pretending to care about Walky’s connections because siphoning him off from Joyce’s friend group is yet more of the aforementioned sting operation.
Like, yes, this is how she talked about Jennifer and Walky, people she didn’t like and deliberately tried to shave off of Joyce’s friend group to hurt her, but is it how she talked about Carl or Chan or Char or Dana? Not to our knowledge. Is she after Asher’s mob connections, or does she have some other reason for wanting Jennifer to get him back? Hard to say for sure.
Just putting two and two together right now about the Asher thing…did Raidah want Asher in the friend group BECAUSE she knows about his mob connections?
Anyway yeah, her behavior here doesn’t make her any less right, but being right doesn’t make her motives any less god-tier shitty as always.
She knows he has connections with very powerful, very effective businessmen, at least. I somehow doubt she’s aware of the mob thing, mostly because trying to get in good with organized crime is an extremely stupid thing.
Sal brought it up, somewhat obliquely, in front of Raidah, though it’s not entirely clear from Jennifer’s response whether she actually knew about the mob boss thing or if he’d given her some softer version of the story.
Replying to myself: she was kind to Sarah in the flashback, right when school started and before Dana’s struggles. Wonder if something else happened that made her so mercenary
This strip made me smile. Raidah is wrong most times but she actually nailed this one completely unknowingly lol. Everyone say thank you Raidah! (this is not a request for replies saying shes being a big meanie because she said a true thing in a not nice way)
I doubt it. She doesn’t mention the protest until after Joyce does and doesn’t give any specifics. It does just seem to be cynicism about white freshmen protesters.
Raidah’s a jerk, but she’s not completely wrong in this case. We know Joyce and Dorothy didn’t go to the protest because they genuinely cared about the cause all the other people who were there were protesting about. They went to find Jocelyne and warn her that Hank saw a picture of her at the protest.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day. While both went to the protest, Joyce’s motivation was a bit more understanding than Dorothy’s, being all concerned for her sister, who was there entirely for political reasons. But Dorothy just wanted to lash out for the sake of lashing out, and the fact that she was REWARDED for her actions by Joyce suddenly falling for her and Amazi-Girl coming in to save them both from getting arrested…
I was told there were four types of people in this world- those who do good for the right reasons, those who do ill for the right reasons, those who do good for the wrong reasons, and those who do ill for the wrong reasons. The second category is the most dangerous, but the third category is the most annoying, and Dorothy, in my mind, is firmly in the third category now.
To be completely accurate Dorothy initially went so Joyce didn’t have to go alone. She did end up having a wobble and acting like a selfish idiot but she didn’t go the protest with the intent of doing any of that.
I also think Dorothy was not just lashing out, seeking attention, being self-destructive but also felt moved by the realisation the system does in fact suck and hurt people. Which she knew but it felt like it smacked her in the face. Not saying Dorothy is a good person or perfect, not at all. I just thinks it’s a bit unfair to simplify her actions and motives to just lashing out.
Yes! We cannot help who we are or how we are raised. What we begin as ignorant about. What matters is our reaction to those realities when they confront us. The facts when they present themselves, do we believe them? Do we NOT believe them?
It’s when it turns into willful ignorance that it becomes a huge problem and a truly negative personality trait.
Raidah fulfills a good narrative purpose and highlights that there is a difference between shitty attitudes and shitty beliefs. You can be a nasty or sickening person for either reason, or both, or neither.
Joyce and Dorothy have a choice now to tell their S.O.s or not, and if they don’t they are seriously deserving what comes after. Whatever it is.
Raidah, have the day you deserve. Narratively it’s funny that she’s slightly correct. But just UNNECESSARILY rude about it. Jeez.
I don’t see it as that. Sure, on paper, Dorothy picking up the sign and protesting was a largely symbolic thing she was doing for herself. At the same time…I don’t think it was about getting NOTICED for it. It was about breaking her own codes about behaving herself, doing things the “right way”, and rejecting the system that she used to believe in.
In other words, Dorothy did it for herself, but for reasons of self-growth rather than self-satisfaction. One may not look different from the other to outsiders but I do think it’s an important distinction.
Okay, at time of posting, yesterday’s comic has 766 comments. Setting that as the breakpoint for the spread, who has the over and who has the under for today’s comic? 😀
(psst, its a comic with Raidah talking, you should take the over)
So the way Raidah asks if Joyce and Dorothy got the attention they wanted makes me think that someone posted a picture of them kissing on social media already. Someone got a picture of Jocelyne that Joyce’s dad saw. Mary was (smugly) right there and could have gotten a picture. Maybe not in all the chaos and tear gas. Yeah Raidah is antagonistic and unkind, but that seems a little more specific thing to jab at Dorothy and Joyce right now. I know someone thought this might have already happened and I’m not on Patreon right now so if this happens tomorrow (I think there are a few more strips before they get back to their phones) I’m not trying to do spoilers.
(also there are way too many comments to respond to in all of this mess and I miss message boards. Racism is a system. Raidah could be being bigoted or prejudiced towards Joyce and Dorothy for being white, but she is not being racist. Also in the USA people of Middle Eastern descent are legally white for census reasons, but that doesn’t necessarily mean individuals view themselves or others that way.)
It feels like some people really need Raidah to like, have bad politics, or not actually care, or whatever, which is just strange to me. You’re already justified in not liking her! She’s an asshole! I think it’s a much more interesting and real portrayal if she’s harsh, abrasive and mean about things she actually believes instead of “well she just wants to hurt them”.
Sometimes people you hate believe in the same things you do! It’s incredibly common, actually!
And I’m not gonna fault her for being nasty with these two, one of which she has a personal grudge against (and probably still remembers as the funniest girl?), and the other being someone so politically naive she hadn’t thought about what a president does until Raidah made a pointed comment.
Of course I’m a little biased as a Raidah enjoyer, as well as a protest storyline hater. Hi fellow Raidah enjoyers
unrelatedly, I was looking at old strips and found Joyce saying “Dorothy, it’s not stealing a boyfriend if we’re /meant/ to be together!” which, lol. lmao
very much related again but of course I meant fundie girl. That’s on my autocorrect. I don’t think Joyce is particularly funny, just like a regular amount.
i’m making the conscious choice to bow out from commenting today for my own sake (esp. after i got a lil tmi in the patreon comments tbh) but as a fellow Raidah enthusiast and comrade in arms I wanted to let you know that i support and appreciate your message 🫡
This is one of MANY reasons I don’t like the rise of “Narcissistic Abuse” as a concept, or the way NPD has functionally taken the place of APD / “psychopath” for pseudo scientific way of saying someone’s pure evil. 🙄
(There is no “abuser” mental illness or personality disorder. Abusers are usually empathetic (it helps them get into the minds of their victims better, so as to more effectively gaslight them!) — a deep understanding of other people’s feelings doesn’t always lead to compassion, nor does not being able to understand other people’s feelings always lead to indifference.) (Also, hyperempathy isn’t a superpower, you’re not literally feeling other people’s feelings. Hyperempathy just means being very sensitive to what you think other people are feeling, and like other forms of hyper vigilance, it can be completely off-base.)
Anyway, Raidah isn’t a Captain Planet villain. She’s capable of having traits both positive AND negative. She can be an asshole to our protagonists and still oppose genocide, actually! It’s not hard!
That is a different use of the term “hyperempathy” than I have usually seen. When I’ve seen the word used it’s usually been used to refer to some neurodivergent people having an excess of empathy rather than a deficit to the point they sometimes feel bad for inanimate objects.
Interesting! The type I’m familiar with is a common symptom of having been abused. I see there’s also Hyper-Empathy Syndrome and Hyper-Empathy Disorder.
Frankly I should have stuck with my first impulse to just say “high empathy”.
(fwiw I’ve struggled with hyperempathy of the type I mention above)
i mean, she is also not white so she is much more of a target, and this protest actively affects something in her life which makes it more difficult and emotional to put yourself in danger for.
i dont think its as simple as “wow didnt show up for the protest? u dont get to talk buddy”
True, but if she only avoided the protest for her own safety, there’s a direct hypocrisy to her comments, because she’s giving them grief over their supposedly performative appearance. If it’s a cause you care about and only avoided protesting for your personal safety, I would imagine you’d WANT the people who don’t have to worry about that to show up on your behalf, no matter how performative their appearance was, because the alternative is silence.
Her comments were, as always, a calculated barb intended to cut down two people she dislikes in a way they won’t feel comfortable countering. That, or (as other people have mentioned) someone is circulating a picture of the kiss and THAT’S what she’s really alluding to here.
It’s not even certain that Raidah knew that a protest existed or what it was about until this moment. Or that she’s concerned about the issue.
She could be, but it’s not always great for performative idiots to join protests – especially ones like this that are likely to result in police violence. A big permitted march, sure you want everyone you can get. If you’re actually planning to face off with the cops, you want people who are committed and know what’s going to go down.
Counterpoint: If the reason you aren’t showing up at the protest is because you’re more likely to be targetted… Wouldn’t you want more white freshmen to show up? Because they’re more likely to garner sympathy and attention to the cause, and be less likely to be badly injured?
Like… If Raidah shouldn’t show up, neither should Asma, neither should ANY brown/black students, and then if you actually want a protest… you need to fill the ranks with white people. Which I guess means we can dismiss the whole thing because only white people showed up?
i like how this arc is showing each characters reaction to protest and anti-colonialism
i kinda hope Carla just doubles down and keeps excusing herself and her parents. its not a likeable thing to do but its quite realistic to ppl with rich parents, especially queer ones, esp since she wouldnt be able to keep going to uni if she opposed them. These characters are all still quite young and i think she lacks the maturity and confidence to support herself.
would it be heartbreaking to see carla fall down the fascism apologist rabbit hole? obviously, of course
would it be very very very realistic for a white trans woman to become a turbo racist in modern day? unfortunately very, yes, the rise of white girl supremacy politics is incredibly present rn. it sucks so bad but I’d believe it fully
She doesn’t? Specifically when the arms deal thing come up she become extremely conflicted because she doesn’t support it but fell she can’t go against her parents because of everything they did for her.
It would be a face turn, at least it would be if she were currently a heel. Right now we have a young woman barely out from under her parents roof admitting that for reasons of self preservation and losing the only support she’s often felt she had she has intentionally avoided thinking about the consequences of actions her parents take that she has no way to actually prevent.
She could stand up to her parents and tell them she disproves but that doesn’t mean doing so will accomplish anything.
I think saying the trans woman is fascist because her parents are rich and she hasn’t actually confronted that yet is a bit over the top. She’s not actively anti-fash, but that’s not the same thing as being a fascist.
In a less pithy response, yes, it would be objectionable, that would be the point. Not all trans women, especially *white* trans women, are perfect representatives for the queer community. Trans women, as much as anyone else, are capable of being imperfect.
And when you get right down to it, more and more white trans girls are doing this. This is my community, I’m seeing it happen every day, and it breaks me every time, but certain white queers are very eager to throw people of color and other marginalized identities under the bus if it means getting an iota more respectability back for themselves.
I understand the desperate clawing like crabs in a bucket, even if it disgusts me, so seeing Carla fall down that hole when her own parents are the ones being defended would be far from an unrealistic way to progress her character. I don’t think Willis is likely to take her there, people love Carla and her realizing her actions are wrong and changing for the better is probably what this arc of hers is going to be about. But it is not wild or imaginative to see the alternative, it’s just a sad reality in today’s queer community. It’s getting more racist.
I really don’t care if it’s “realistic” or whatever. It would be incredibly bad form and a bad creative choice. We are constantly being demonized in popular discussions regarding us, why is it that the trans girl has to be the one whose character is sacrificed to make some point about racism in the LGBT community? No. Absolutely not.
i think maybe your insistence that trans women must stay perfect and presentable in all forms of media and must never show negative character flaws, even while fictional, is maybe part of the problem, but having that conversation would be like talking to a brick wall thats falling down onto me, so whatever girl you do you
I’m just going to say, it’s very rude to call out someone’s body odor in that context, as Raidah is not their close associate. And yes, there is valid concern for performative white knight activism. But let’s be clear here, there is no response they could’ve given about why they “reek” that would’ve gotten a positive, supportive response from Raidah. Because that’s just not who she is. Raidah is not a good source of character growth, because she’d be rude no matter why they walked past her. Roz would be a better person to critique the motives behind white freshman protest.
I don’t think the implication is meant to be that they smell like body odor, but rather that they smell like tear gas. I’ve never smelt it but I imagine it has a thick chemical scent to it.
That makes sense. It’s still rude to comment on, as a casual acquaintance. The remark is not a ‘Hey what happened’ remark but rather a ‘You’re somehow even worse than usual’ remark.
Y’all, that kiss has to be all over the place online and that’s why Raidah is (justifiably) annoyed with them. “Did you get the attention that you wanted” implies not only that it is but that it’s completely detracting from the purpose of the protest.
Plus, this is Willis’ story we’re talking about. Of course everyone is gonna know about the kiss already because of the drama it will create. The tasty, tasty drama.
I think it’s down to why a character is disliked whether Raidah or Mary is more dislikeable.
When Mary isn’t actively spewing bigoted shit her personality can be less grating then Raidah’s. On the other hand unless we get a big reveal about shit that’s gone down with Raidah’s minions friends Mary has actively done worse things that endangered people to a greater extent than Raidah has.
Well it’s not very polite to see a person and have to tell them they smell like PEPPER GAS, only phrase it like it was some sewer smell. And have to get the last word in on whatever conversation that resulted.
Lady, she is not ONLY the refuge Sarah took to by now feel like a normal non depressed person. Quit being rude about someone else scoring the dean’s son. It’s REALLY not Dotty’s fault.
Give Raidah (and trolls) the attention she deserves:
Anyone wanna speculate whether Joe, given the context of him and Becky (both through Joyce) being pretty much already in the loop about the romantic and or hanky panky tensions going on between these two, and anyone who remotely knows them can see at a glance that something explosive has happened, interpersonally, through them?
Alright anyways that established on the “who knows” topic. Joe being okay with an open relationship? Specifically, not open for Joe, open for Joyce and Dorothy specifically because what they have is absolutely unique beautiful and precious, and not to be hampered as far as personal growth is concerned?
And I wouldn’t mind hearing if anyone has more thoughts on the Becky being angsty about this news vis a vis bisexuality of the “I like THIS ONE woman in this way, I dunno about any other ladies,” variety.
Also do you think Dorothy might be uhhh, bi and demisexual, as in the physicality of the pairing matters way less than the emotional attachment level?
… I think so. Scoring VERY LOW in the ace spectrum category but idk… how you would describe that besides demi….
… I continue to be a confused ace spectrum pan man about all this nonsense drama XD but of course it’s fascinating to watch.
( I dont know why ) But I think Dorothys Trans.
Just a Vibe I’ve had for a few years.
No I dont think Dorothys Demi. She was just in denial. She likes Walkys body and was in too him early.
If anything Dorothy can lean the opposite way, she can be transactional. and prioritize her physical needs at the expense of relationships and emotions. If anything Joyce is an exception to this.
dorothy explained early on she was cautious because she could be judged as a candidate.
Yeah haha, fair, I was projecting hard last night before sleep, also trying to distance MYSELF from Raidah comments and stuff.
Transactional is not what I’d put it as but I get your point. Better word than not saying anything about it. Hmm. I’d say she’s thankfully shameless concerning sex is all. If she wants, they are available and their personality is good to her and they have chemistry, then she pounces. I dunno if I see any payment ish kind of things happening even in her head. Besides “I reward myself with this shenanigans.”
When Sayyid Qutb visited a US campus town in the 50s, he was appalled by the materialism, the hedonism and generally having the time of their lives of US women
I still hear echoes of Qutb when I hear Communists speak
The university system was built on people being able to act out and find themselves. That’s the Western liberal tradition in my eyes
Lighten up Raidah. Some of the LARPERs might go on to do great things, even take down that old gits Qutbs toxic tradition. Don’t let your cynicism stop seeing the good from the frolicsome
Given how we already know Raidah heavily dislikes Joyce (and knows Joyce is a pretty important part of why she’s single while Sarah’s happiness and friend circle keep growing) and definitely doesn’t respect Dorothy much for wanting to be President of the USA without even having considered the responsibility it’d mean towards all the wars they’re engaged in… This is honestly about the nicest I could imagine Raidah being to the two of them short of just ignoring them on her way past them.
That said, she may be a jerk who generally cares more about her own social climb than about other people, but I do hope we get to see more of her outside of that lone trait. I think there’s a lot of potential in seeing more of why she wants all that status and power and why she wants to go into law other than the money and respect. Automatic disdain towards white freshmen whom she flatly assumes went to a protest which they had no genuine commitment to – which is correct, even – is a fun glimpse towards that, I think. I actually wish we’d get to see more of her thoughts on the protest, even if that’s not what the story is intended to be about, just because I’d love that extra insight into how she thinks about issues that aren’t centered on herself.
It is not possible to be racist against white people because racism implies a systemic level of oppression and prejudice which advances beyond personal animus.
“It is not possible to be racist against white people ”
Funny how I only ever see this put by other racists. It doesnt imply any systemic bull at all. You cant just change what racism means so you can insult white people guilt free. Then again you don’t seem like the type to reflect on such a thing or see insulting white people as bad so…
“Funny how I only ever see this put by other racists.”
That’s kind of a self-fullfilling prophecy, seeing as you
consider people as racist for making that point?
Also, it’s not ‘changing what racism means’, it’s understanding racism.
The observed phenomenon of racism objectively referred to a systemic discrimination based on the perceived category of “race”, which was created by white people to discriminate others. The very concept of both human “races” in general and “white people” as a racial category were born from a white-led effort to establish white people as a both unified and superior category. Therefore, no racism against white people is possible, since no other racial category is assigned the social authority to do so.
Calling out white priviledge is not racism by any stretch.
And that is itself a twisting of the original usage of racism to make into a tool for white supremacy. This usage only exists as part of the post-Civil Rights era backlash.
We blame a lot of things on the British including racism in my country but I personally feel that’s just deflection. We are quite capable of racism all on our own
To say it’s a “twisting” of the original usage, is to imply that the word having more than one meaning was done intentionally, malevolently, rather than just the general changing of language that happens naturally over time. The original usage isn’t “purer” or “more correct” than what it has become; rather, the way that the word is used by a majority of the speaking population, *becomes* correct usage, if not changed.
If the argument for why “racism” cannot be used to describe personal negative, prejudiced feelings against members of a particular race because the origin of the word comes from describing a system, then we need to also stop using the word “Transphobic,” because that is a portmandeau of blending “transgender” and “phobia.” The subject of phobias became extremely popular in the 90s, with TV shows, books, magazines, etc. talking about different phobias and describing all of the things that people could feel extremely irrationally afraid of, and “transphobic” was originally coined as an insult, to compare people who were prejudiced against transgendered people to people who screamed and cried and ran away from, say, a spider, or a cat, or the number thirteen.
I’m A-OK using “transphobic” to describe prejudice against trans people, because even though it doesn’t really describe it in the same way that a word like “transmisia” does, and came from an insult that trivializes people with a mental disorder (that being, phobias), it is what our common usage is today.
For that same reason, I’m OK using racism to describe a personal prejudice against someone ‘s race and members of that race, as long as it doesn’t lose the systemic root. In fact, I believe that the word has grown stronger by looping in personal accountability and prejudices, instead of only talking about the systemic nature.
… and I think that we can agree here, that whether or not you want to call what Raidah is “racism,” she IS being, admittedly, prejudiced against two people SPECIFICALLY because of their age and their race. If you want to say “No, that’s not racism, because racism means X,” that’s fine, but it’s then a leap to say that this is actually fine because the word means something else. If I take the word “murder” and ascribe it to something else, then “Intentionally killing an innocent person” does not suddenly become morally OK.
In linguistics, prescriptivism is the norm. Linguists talk not about what words “should” mean, but how people use them in real life. I’m reasonably confident that a fairly substantial majority of folks, regardless of their background, would define racism as “being a dick to someone because of their race”.
There has to be a *very* compelling reason to override the prescriptivist in me and say “no, you’re using that word wrong” and none of the arguments in favor of defining racism solely as “power+prejudice” have met that bar for me.
I don’t think there is as much intention as you imply behind this gradual shift from the academic term of racism to the colloquial term we use today, especially not from the people actually using it. Like any academic term that has entered general discourse, the precise meaning is changed. People use “capitalism” very vaguely, for instance, with either negative or positive connotations. Saying “it isn’t possible to be racist against white people” is a bit like saying “actually, REAL capitalism hasn’t been tried”. It’s literally semantica., the most boring and unfruitful sort of discussion.
But it’s not a shift from an academic term unless you’re saying that any use of “racism” comes from academic use.
I’m saying that when people started using the term racism, it clearly applied to systemic prejudice and discrimination by the dominant group against an oppressed minority – or more specifically by whites against blacks. That wasn’t academic semantics, it just wouldn’t have occurred to anyone to think of black people racist for not liking or trusting whites. They had far cruder things to call them.
It’s only in the backlash to the Civil Rights movement, as I said, that the concept even became meaningful. I could be wrong about how intentional the shift in common usage is, but it is definitely tied to that backlash, not to an innocent shift out of academia. Part of the same attitude that painted Affirmative Action as racist and that now casually claims that whites (and men and Christians) are the only ones it’s socially okay to discriminate against.
The term as has been described above is an academic term. You can tell because it has a precise definition in terms of sociological concepts. I will also note that it is also not the “original” use of the term racism, apparently. It appears to have originally been synonymous with the earlier and more descriptive term “racial prejudice”, according to etymonline. https://www.etymonline.com/word/racist
>That wasn’t academic semantics, it just wouldn’t have occurred to anyone to think of black people racist for not liking or trusting whites.
I agree that the sort of “reverse racism” thing is ridiculous, but it’s also ridiculous to say that it is impossible by definition to be racist against white people, and it is indeed a change of definition from the one in established use. There is a line between not liking or trusting whites for valid reasons (such as being under their bootheel your whole life) and for invalid reasons (they’re just filthy Yakubite mongrels), and that line is better described by the conventional meaning of the term. Again this point is very much like “real capitalism hasn’t been tried”.
Racism describes a philosophical/political viewpoint/action of racial superiority/inferiority. It can be performed by anyone of any race, true, but requires a certain amount of social/political power, so in America (where this story is set), it’s nearly/functionally impossible to be effectively racist against white people, and that doesn’t include “calling out the political power structures put and held in place for centuries that elevate and protect ‘white’ people and their opinions.”
The term that more accurately fits would be “prejudice” which IS perfectly possible for minorities to show/perform in America, but of course it doesn’t have the same teeth that an accusation of racism does, so “pithy discourse” tends to ignore it.
You could also just use “Generalizing” here, but I grant that Raidah has enough ill-will behind her barb that it wasn’t being made from ignorance so “Prejudiced” fits better.
I’d include a TBF section here, but I learned the difference between these words in elementary school, so at this point it’s either intentional misuse or willful ignorance.
So while Raidah being snarky about white people is not actually racism, I really, *really* hate this argument.
I agree with every single aspect of the “racism=prejudice+power” argument except for its conclusions. I favor calling that “systemic racism” instead, while using “racism” as a broad category to refer to any negative experience a society or individual inflicts upon another person because of that person’s race.
There are two reasons for this:
The first is that power is contextual, and so often these arguments assume a US context. I, as a white man, have faced systemic discrimination in my life. This was because I was living in Japan. The first time I tried to open a bank account there, the banker’s response was “oh, we don’t open bank accounts for foreigners” and my company had to say “no, we’ve totally done it before” to get them to do it (my other example is more blatant, but takes longer to describe). What else would that be called but racism?
Saying “you can’t be racist towards white people” either comes with the implied rider of “in the United States” or is flat-out wrong.
The other reason is that I’ve studied linguistics, and so I’m generally a pretty big prescriptivist. If the majority of people use racism to mean “being a dick because of someone’s race”, and I believe that they do, then that is what the word means, regardless of how much folks don’t want it to.
Six white guys randomly roll up on a black guy minding his own business and beat his ass, solely because he is a black guy. Is this racist? If so, why? If not, why not?
Six black guys randomly roll up on a white guy minding his own business and beat his ass, solely because he is a white guy. Is this racist? If so, why? If not, why not?
Six white guys attack a black guy. The cops are called but they’re also white so they look the other way, and one even helps. They’re brought before a court, and the judge is white, and starts questioning why the black guy was there because he must have looked suspicious. The case is thrown out, the white guys face no punishment. THAT is “systemic racism.”
Six black guys beat up a white dude because he is white. The cops are called. Two of the black guys are shot on sight. The other four are dragged in front of a white judge, 3 are given life sentences with no parole, and the last is given a death sentence. That is also systemic racism, but still towards the black guys.
The discussion of why either set of men beat up someone of a different race isn’t part of the systemic racism definition.
Now, is that what most people mean when they say Racism? Does this mean that the neither group of men was being racist when they attacked someone for their skin colour? Is the concept of “systemic racism” only pulled out as the “true” definition when people want to argue that you can’t be racist to white people? Those may be more interesting questions.
Raidah is a brown Muslim woman who is likely to be disproportionately targeted for police brutality, arrest, and, in the worst instance, death. There were snipers on those roofs. Additionally, and more selfishly, Raidah wants to be a BigLaw attorney, and getting caught up in an unpopular and now illegal encampment or worse, arrested or shot, is also likely to cost her educational and professional opportunities which she already has to work twice as hard for because she is, again, a brown Muslim woman.
These are actual calculations people have to make about this stuff, and there are ways to support the cause being protested for that don’t necessarily involve putting your body on the line at a protest she could reasonably assume would be violently shut down and she clearly believes was mostly white people trying to make themselves feel better.
All that to say, I would caution being overly judgmental about the brown Muslim girl’s position on this relative to the white girls who got off essentially consequence free (and who Raidah is pretty right about wrt making the protest about them anyway)
We don’t all have the luxury of barging out into the field to make some grand statement that is only tangentially related to the actual cause being protested, you know? There’s a reason Dorothy isn’t arguing against Raidah here.
Ya But,
I wouldnt assume Raidah even supports the protest.
I think Raidahs cynicism is also a self confession, when she supports something Good its performatively. to make herself feel superior, or to put others down. (Or social climb to power. )
If ANYTHING, I think being a Brown Muslim girl encourages her to wear a social mask.
The only virtue Ive seen in her so far is not being ruthless and not taking revenge. other than mean girl nonsense.
We have no reason to believe Raidah is opposed to the genocide. She may be ambivalent towards the protest as a specific tactic, but we don’t have any real evidence of that, her concern seems to be more about white liberals coopting it.
A lot of people seem to have this need for Raidah to have bad politics. But she doesn’t, generally. She was spot on about Dorothy’s Presidential ambitions, and she’s spot on here. She’s just nasty about it, and antagonistic to our POV characters.
I feel like the bullshit she said to Dorothy about being President strongly imply that she would support protesting genocide. Or at the very least, is not pro-genocide herself, which is a case of clearing the bar where the bar is in hell. She’s also not wrong, has zero reason to be polite to Joyce ever and not much reason to be polite to her best friend, and that kiss 100% is circulating online.
(I do think what she said back then was stupid af. Not because she was wrong about presidents having to sign off on some awful things, but the extended logic that No Good Person should ever want to be president which only guarantees a permanent downward spiral)
The “permanent downward spiral” argument only holds if you take the existence of the Presidency as axiomatic. I would suspect Raidah would be sympathetic to an argument that the only moral solution to the problem is to dismantle the American State as it currently exists.
I mean, 100% of everyone I’ve met in irl who go full scorched earth on “wanting to be president makes you evil” is also absolutely not on board with “burn everything to the ground and restart” because of the mass amount of death and suffering that is sort of inherent in a revolution.
Like, CLEARLY our current tools aren’t working, but curiously everyone who spouts off talking points like that seems absolutely convinced that peaceful demonstration, something which has never once worked in the course of human history even when it was touted as a success (pushed as such by the powers that be to maintain order). Hence why I check out of political discussions really quickly because the only solution anyone ever is actually willing to discuss is one that is Not Functional to fix the problem. I’ll still do my part in it because it’s my duty, but it’s very much a situation of the kitchen being on fire and everyone keeps saying that if we finish the roast then the sprinklers will take care of the fire. You can fry it with grease, or you can dry roast it and try to stay away from the fire, but the room is burning down and you need to either grab a fire extinguisher and ruin the food or you need to leave to safety. Maybe the fire will put itself out, maybe the sprinklers will suddenly kick on and we don’t have to ruin dinner, but every day it seems increasingly unlikely.
Like, if we wanna talk about Raidah being an unreasonable bongo, I don’t believe she believes in dismantling the government. She has a lot of incentive and reason to never take that stance and never vocalize it, being in a High Risk of Retaliation group, but she probably sees such solutions as barbaric/unthinkable, which means her logic IS the guaranteed permanent downward spiral. And unless I see a character outright say their political views only support a revolution, that’s the only safe assumption to make because that view is an extreme minority.
Like, I’m not gonna be the one to ruin dinner, but if people go for the extinguisher and I can help them, I will. If everyone wants to stand around and wait for the sprinklers to kick on, I’m absolutely on team “Don’t Cook with Grease” even if I think they’re ineffectual, mostly performative idiots. What I don’t think is helpful is telling someone that wants to try to cook AND put out the fire that they’re an idiot, even if I think they haven’t thought through the logistics, because that still leaves us with two cooks who aren’t focused on putting out the fire at all.
No one’s saying Raidah will be giving lectures on the finer points of foco theory anytime soon, just that she’s likely to be more sympathetic to the perspective that the American state is structurally imperialist and in need of dismantling than a white liberal who goes around saying “i wanna be the president” without giving any substantive thought into what that actually means.
Maybe than that particular white liberal, but the majority of those generally attracted to the “burn it all down” approach tend to be young whites who at least subconsciously think they’ll have the privilege to make it through the burning down part. (At least on the left – the right wing “burn it down crowd is different.) Like Bittersweet said, she’s in a High Risk of Retaliation group, which Dorothy and Joyce aren’t.
The “burn everything to the ground and restart” not only has the problem of the “mass amount of death and suffering”, but that such revolutions do not at all reliably produce better systems afterwards. Even if they succeed.
yes. A couple of white kids not having to calculate all the repercussions is likely what she’s alluding to. From the get-to-know-you lunch she had with Joyce and Dorothy, we know Raidah puts a lot of stock in the courts, and is planning to be a civil rights lawyer. And a protest conviction would cost her that.
Dorothy, when she calculated all her decisions to become President is aspirational and charming, but Raidah calculating her decisions in order to become a civil rights lawyer is opportunistic and hypocritical? Na
I had forgotten about the specifics of the law she wants to go into. Also another point in favor of Raidah having center-left politics. Civil rights attorneys are not a famously conservative bunch.
She has never said she was planning to go into civil rights law. She talked up Jacob’s brother Harrison, who was part of a big trans-rights case, but that can be seen as much as manipulating Jacob and maybe trying to provoke an anti-trans tirade from the fundie girl making eyes at him as it was anything she herself was focused on.
Different people will make different calculations about this sort of thing. Asma was putting her body on the line for the cause, which is admirable, but it’s wrong to expect every Muslim person to make the same sacrifice.
It’s less that she wasn’t at the protest (as you point out, that’s a personal choice to make) but the rest of her presence throughout the comic that make people doubt both her politics and actual commitment to anything that isn’t purely careerist.
Sure, but every time we’ve gotten insight into Raidah’s actual politics, she’s been very firmly left of center. Stale apolitical centrists do not talk about how the office of the President is a vessel for American imperialism. It’s silly to assume she has no opinion about this.
She is a careerist, and that’s certainly a consideration, but I’m annoyed at this need people have for Raidah to have bad politics. It actually makes her a more compelling antagonist that she has pretty good politics, I feel!
On the scant evidence we have, the only cause that Raidah has is herself. That’s not “bad politics” that’s being a certain kind of American.
She’s very good at snark, and that’s a great attack at Dorothy, but let’s not build Raidah into something she’s clearly not. Let’s wait and see how Willis builds Raidah’s character.
Asma’s politics are fairly clear in her commitment. We’ve seen her do something, just as we’ve seen Amazigirl do something for the “cause”
Qutb, the great Islamist would have hated all of them.
I would love to wait and get more information about Raidah but Willis only wheels her out once every eight months so I’m forced to analyze her based upon the information I have.
Not sure what Sayyid Qutb has to do with any of this, also cool it with throwing “Islamist” around.
I posted about Qutb further up the page. You clearly missed my pearls of wisdom on Islamism and it’s connection to America.
In response to your tone policing, I think you might want to cool it with the over-analysis. Makes it look like you’re building straw people to further your own prejudice
She has not shown any politics. Whatever her beliefs are have yet to be seen. I consider them fungible. But I see no there there.
Dorothy has not shown any politics, yet in Leslie’s class told Roz where to get off when Roz blamed (homeschooled, sheltered 18-y.o. Joyce) for the religious bigotry she was raised in.
It’ll be quite a whipsaw if Raidah speaks out like Dorothy did.
Silly thing to say. Of course they’ve shown politics. It’s impossible for them not to have. We live in a political world.
Dorothy, for most of her life, has been a fairly comfortable white liberal. She’s aware of systemic issues but for the most part has believed very firmly in institutional solutions to those issues. That belief being punctured is a core element of the doom spiral that culminated in the protest.
Raidah, meanwhile, is a brown Muslim woman in an overwhelmingly conservative state. She is completely clear-eyed about the issues of misogyny, Islamophobia, and racism that she’s no doubt had to struggle against for her entire life. She’s a striver, a careerist, and an opportunist and that’s all in service of the fact that she has to fight much harder than most people to get a fraction of what they do. On the occasions she has discussed political issues, she has made a point that the office of the president is a vessel for American imperialism and war crimes, and expressed resentment towards wet-eared white liberals making things about themselves. At minimum, she’s left of center irrespective of her careerist tendencies.
“She has made a point that the office of the president is a vessel for American imperialism and war crimes.”
So she’s going to be part of the solution? Because I want to see her recognize that it ain’t getting better on its own.
These white liberals are college freshmen. How fully-formed does she expect them to be? She’s not running purity tests, I hope. If she’s trying to get them to figure out something about life she couldn’t be more offputting.
I just hope Raidah treats the people who hate black Muslim women strivers with the disdain she has for those who are “gettable”. I’d like to see that but I’m not holding my breath.
Honestly, you have no idea what she believes, because the one time she actually talked about something political was in attacking Dorothy’s aspirations, and there’s zero indication that this was anything more than a manipulation.
And you really, REALLY can’t go assuming political position based off of race. Regardless of how obvious it is. You will find Latinos suddenly backing Republicans because they’re sending “the bad ones” home, up until they’re sent home. You’ll see black people criticizing the “thugs” and trying to show that THEY are the “good ones”.
I have a cousin who married a Vietnamese woman; they have three kids. I always thought that they were, if not fairly liberal, at least middle of the road. Up until 2020, when they became full-blown MAGA, even with her posting on January 6th to all our family, to “watch as history is being made.”
Ick ick ick ick ick.
The only side that we know, for sure, that Raidah is on, is Raidah’s side. Beyond that, this is a character who has so many faces and so many masks that we really can’t tell for sure what is what.
Honestly if Joyce explained why she was there and how it got interrupted by the riot police, I feel like this is one of the few times Raidah might actually sympathize at least in the ‘human decency’ department. It was a genuine act.
Dorothy otoh probably deserves this reaction from Raidah. It’s a reaction I don’t agree with, but Dorothy was doing some very individualist bs at a collectivist function.
I hate how often the ‘kissing/being romantic’ part is getting paired in breaking from the collectivist function. Them being queer was not the problem. The problem was the way Willis had wrote the protest, up to that point, as a backdrop rather than an integral part of the storyline. It’s the mindset that resulted in/was behind the kissing. You can kiss people at protests in a collectivist manner. Literally being gay is fighting power if you are conscious and purposeful about it.
Boosting morale and keeping protests centered on love and peace is a tale as old as crime. It’s a bit contrary to Islam and Islamic values, so I don’t think it has a place here. But even then I can imagine something like a lot of pro-peace Jews and Muslims getting together intentionally and purposefully to kiss as part of their resistance. But a lot (not most) of the criticism of the being gay and doing crimes has been on the actions not having a place in protests. The Vietnam War protests would beg to differ. It’s anti-collectivism and individualist thinking and approaches that are the problem.
… I don’t think there’s any chance Raidah might sympathize.
Greeting: Insult. “Wow, you reek.”
Response: Taunting. “Oooo, do you FEEL BETTER? Did you GET ATTENTION?”
Explanation: “It’s not that I dislike what you did, I just am cynical towards your entire race.”
… there’s no world in which you sit her down and whitesplain to her what you were actually doing and why that she suddenly now accepts them and has sympathy for them. She has already made up her mind before anyone said anything.
No it isn’t? “I went to go tell my sister that she was in possible additional peril due to outside threats.” That’s not a threat that threatens just Jocelyne it could effect a lot of people at the protest both by proxy and similarity depending on why ‘dad’ had the picture. You cannot be pissed off at both ‘performatively going to a protest’ and also ‘not going to a protest because you don’t know enough about it to authentically support it’. You can be upset at ignorance but ‘going there to warn/help the safety of someone else in the protest of things outside their possibly planned scope’ is inarguably ‘a reasonable reason to go’. Raidah has many flaws but she at least makes an attempt to be consistent.
I think you are vastly underestimating a person’s ability to be pissed off when they have already decided to do so. You can get upset for literally any reason or no reason at all. And Raidah already despises them both. She called Joyce “that bubble-headed MAGA” something or other, and she literally sabotaged Dorothy’s plans for the future by deliberately acting like she was a monster to even consider it.
I think that Dot is saying that, if you’ve already decided to despise someone, and the reason you’re taunting them now is because you want them to believe they’re hypocrites for going to a protest, having them confirm that they were there for the safety of a family member and not because of the children being unjustly killed, doesn’t do a thing to shake her. It just fills in the color so that she can rebound with a more personalized attack.
Didn’t Dorothy straight up wind up behind the barricades because she was mad at the cops ultimately for the nature of the crackdown? I’m baffled here – that’s one of the Reasons Protest Works – the cops hit a crowd, and people who HAD been mostly on the sidelines go “oh, that’s fucked”, and respond with anger. It’s what nonviolence is trying to do!
While I think an inexperienced activist playing disruptor is a bad decision (I think the disruptor HAS a role, and generally has to be one of the least assumed-criminal people in the room (because they will likely be arrested) (so a cisgender white lady is a good pick!)) I don’t think it’s a morally damning one; to be honest, I’d take a young activist who engaged in disruption every time over the coward that hisses “we are peaceful!” At the people in a nonviolent standoffs with the cops, which is what most of you sound like rn. I think “I’m going to get arrested” is *stupid*, but for an unconnected person it’s really only going to hurt them, and is therefore their call, not even the call of organizers.
I also don’t think deciding to stand side by side with your partner as they get arrested is counterrevolutionary, and I dare say you should go watch your partner be arrested at a protest if you disagree – you’ll feel the call of the police line then, I promise.
I don’t think she was angry at the cops for that; I think that was what she voiced because she couldn’t REALLY voice what she was upset about. She was upset because she couldn’t have anything she wanted: not Presidency, not Joyce, not anything. Faced with walking back with Joyce to a world where she has her boyfriend and Joyce has hers and she’s struggling to figure out where to go in a world where she’ll never make the difference she wanted, and staying and fighting for just a tiny bit of difference before eventually returning to that world anyways, she stayed and fought.
I mean, when Joyce came back to her, it’s not like what they talked about was the atrocities and genocide and how they couldn’t let the tear gas and police stop this. It was, I can’t have anything I want. Not now, not ever. She decided in ONE PANEL, right after contemplating returning with Joyce, that she REALLY REALLY cared about this, and then never again after that speech.
It wasn’t a selfless act advocating for injustice on others. It was a self-destructive act motivated by anger at her own perceived injustices.
Bingo. This is the worm in the apple of the protest setpiece, and why it left such a sour taste in so many people’s mouths: the actual issues of the protest were subordinated to Dorothy’s personal issues. It was never really about the protest.
Whatever injustices happened to the people of Bulmeria, were overshadowed by the injustices that happened to the people who came to the protest, which were overshadowed by the injustices that Dorothy was experiencing.
And while that’s accurate for how humans are wired to feel – we feel strongest for ourselves and those we love, then to our community, then to others outside that community – that’s the inverse of the point of a protest, which aims to take an injustice that is far away and thrust it in people’s face.
It still bothers me that we never really heard to the degree that Ruttech, or the college, was actually complicit in the genocide itself. I know that a comic strip really can’t exposition-dump the sort of research that someone needs to do… but people make decisions all the time on what to support or not based on nothing more deep than what we saw in the strip, and it’d be nice to see something like “lobbyists funded by Ruttech and/or the campus had advocated against a cease fire” or something like that.
If we’re going by what little we saw and by similar divestment protests, there’s no link as direct as “lobbied against a ceasefire.” It’s that the college is invested in companies that make weapons that are used in/by Bulmeria – said weapons possibly being sold directly or possibly being bought by the US government and then passed on.
Ruttech itself would be a sub-contractor that makes computer systems used in some weapons systems.
I’m touchy enough as a trans woman about the way that queer people are put in danger at protests that I won’t pick most of this fight: I’m likely to start using the words “dangerously homophobic” to describe relatively minor sleights in a way that probably means I should disengage at this point.
I will say, however, that that’s not what the text says. Dorothy says, “The university is happily aiming snipers at their own students so they keep on funding murder elsewhere. And if we still continue raising a fuss, they’ll change the law overnight so we can’t. We’re being intimidated into compliance, and fascism is winning.” and then proceeds to risk getting arrested in way that would likely get her charged in a context where the only reason that doesn’t happen is a deus ex machina. This isn’t “your life is over” but it’s also not “you get to go back to your life”. This is about the limit of what I should say on this matter.
As I see it, there are substantive critiques of where the camera has focused during this arc. I think Asma could have gotten more time, I think the camera could have been looser during the height of the protest itself, and I think the narrative certainly is a self-actualization narrative as a result that is troubling. But I think a lot of the criticism takes valid criticism of the author, and pins it on totally normal behavior from a fictional queer woman who is experiencing a fairly process of radicalization. I… don’t like that.
First – I want to apologize for my actions making you feel attacked. I won’t pretend for a moment that I understand what it’s like to be in that vulnerable of a position, and it was not my intention to trivialize. I misspoke enough in that, that I feel I accidently said that she didn’t care, or that she wasn’t angry at police.
((ALSO – this is me from the end of the post. I’m so sorry – I realize this long post probably looks like I’m angry or something. I’m not. I hyperfixate and sunk way too much time in this and didn’t realize how it might have come off. So if you can, imagine me as a comic book nerd arguing about why Quicksilver could beat The Flash or something. I’m going over minutiae about my favorite imaginary people.))
She obviously cares. She cares a good deal. But on the list of everything that she cares about right now, it’s very low priority.
I say this because:
– Up until speaking to Mary in the laundry room (June 14), she hadn’t voiced an opinion, and when she does it’s very general (You can be against bombing civilians when governments and terrorists do it)
– She goes because she is afraid for Joyce, and plans to just go in, go out (June 16)
– She had no idea how subversive the protest was (June 24) implying she isn’t really plugged in to the cause.
– She has “cop energy,” according to Asma. (June 25) She’s an outsider, not protesting.
– That’s backed up on June 30th, saying that if not for a few circumstances, she would be in the counter-protest, where Mary was, and on the side of the institutions (the campus and the police).
– Realizing that those in power manipulated things was an “epiphany” that everyone else was long aware of. (July 3)
– Dorothy and Joyce have a long, drawn-out conversation about how they’re going back to normal life, and back to their boyfriends, and how they can’t just stay here, holding hands (July 6)
– THEN, on July 7th, she has a single panel – just one – in which she’s only talking about how terrible the snipers and the campus and everything is being and how they’re letting facism win. Within two panels, it’s back to “everything” and how you always have to wait to MAYBE get what you want. Then a focus again on them holding hands.
– Then on July 7th, they’re head to head, close enough to kiss, talking about how Dorothy’s way never got her anything that she ever wanted, and how much she loves Joyce’s anger, her “stupid, beautiful anger.”
– July 11th, Jocylene tells her there’s no use staying there, nothing will be accomplished, she doesn’t need to do this, and Dorothy says, in all bold, “You don’t know what I need.
– July 13th, Dorothy says, “My entire life has been things I can’t have – not now, not later, not EVER. Let me have this.” To which Joyce replies, “You have always, ALWAYS had me.”
– July 14th, they kiss.
– July 15th, they evacuate.
In all of that, I can 100% say that Dorothy CARES about what the protest is, and wants to fight for this. I 100% believes she’s against genocide and believes that she’s on the right side.
But would you say that this is what she NEEDS? Is she standing there, holding the sign, because this is the issue she is passionate about and will fight for? Or is she doing that because, of everything that she can’t do and can’t have, that’s the one thing that is in her control, which she can do?
I believe it’s the second. I believe everything else leading up to that and after has said that it’s the second. I believe that Dorothy’s one-panel monologue about how horrible the genocide and snipers and facism are, was the safe thing to express, while the camera and focus was pointing at the thing that she *really* cared about. I believe that Dorothy’s there for the same exact reason that Robin’s there, and that only after she showed up she learned, in about five minutes, that it was a cause worth fighting for. And I also believe that if Joyce had kissed her back on July 7th, there is a zero percent chance she would ever have stayed.
Because when Dorothy retorted to Jocylene that she didn’t know what she needed, what she was referring to wasn’t the cause. What she needed was Joyce.
I am disengaging, but I want you to know that I’m not upset with you, I appreciate your apology, don’t think it was particularly necessary and I am disengaging because I am realizing that there is some bleed here for me as a person who identifies very deeply Joyce (Let’s just say that “feeling the call of the police line” as I said earlier after your partner is arrested is not hypothetical for me, and leave it at that), and that’s maybe not the best thing for a thread about race, queerness, and protest. This demands a nuance that I am not capable of.
I have issues even with that as “why protests work”. That tactic can be very effective when you’re protesting something like police brutality, but in many other cases, all it does is shift the focus of attention from the original cause to police violence and to the right to protest, which doesn’t actually help the people being genocided here.
And if the protest organizers have decided this isn’t a good strategy at this time, maybe it’s not great for a couple of clueless but photogenic white freshmen with no stake or real understanding decide they need to play that role.
raidah is right but this time it feels like it’s by accident
if you’re always suspicious of someone you’re gonna be right eventually
of course it’s very possible I’m showing my privilege here buttttt it’s established that she despises joyces (for pretty reasonable reasons to be fair) ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
well she’s right and i’m genuinely glad she’s saying it. i was very uncomfortable this whole arc and having raidah acknowledge the tension of “hey this genocide protest should probably Not Be About You Two White Girls” is. yeah. that’s good. thank you raidah.
Yeah but she also was not there and did not see how the girls handled themselves at the protest or that it was mainly a pretext for them to get together. She literally just heard that two white girls went to a protest and got angry about it.
i think it’s easy enough for raidah to figure that these two girls have never once expressed any opinion on this genocide. dorothy had never once considered that the president of the united states is, like, a bad person and war criminal until raidah pointed it out. joyce is an extremely recently recovering fundie who literally less than a year ago would likely be right next to mary, with the counter protestors, because she had never given thought to this sort of thing.
and raidah would have guessed right. the people who actually cared about the protest, like joss, told them to leave. they Were only there because it soothed their egos to do something “rebellious”. it has nothing to do with their opinions on the genocide. and it’s pretty gross that that’s the case, and it’s good raidah called them out on it!
That’s literally the system set up. People are ignorant at the most important age of their lives to be illuminated. People not taught during school age become metastasized into rigid thinking and not prioritizing important issues. White people who are not taught at a young age will be unequipped unless they make friends or have family that are effected.
I cannot tell you how many times in my life I’ve come across people of all races that either didn’t really know stuff, or who only knew about things because their family members taught them directly due to their own life experience. Truth and empathy aren’t just qualities. They are skills. Skills that are currently being eroded for the so called betterment of wealthy landed gentry. Anyone can be ill-equipped. It’s the intended outcome of the system.
Whether it is from previous bad experiences with white activists her age or just being petty, Raidah’s cynicism is kinda fun to read. As Dorothy’s political awakening is developing, I think it goes to show how she (Dorothy) is gonna be alright even if her intentions are a mess and her actions are short-sighted, when confronted with negativity.
I highly doubt Willis would like to write her backsliding when someone (who is known to be an ass) is distrusting her intentions for protesting. [And if she did, I would not blame Raidah.]
It feels true to life that college-aged students getting into activism and politics are going to be downright hostile and unhelpful to each other. I was unsure about the inclusion of the protests as the backdrop for the stor before, but I’m now interested to see how this can further develop Dorothy and maybe even Raidah 😛
Apologies for the ramble. I think this strip is neat.
Okay so, there are some context clues about Raidah that people seem to be missing and/or willfully ignoring.
Raidah, like Jacob, is a Black person from an affluent upbringing. It is very likely that her parents had to bust their asses to reach the social strata that allowed them to afford her that upbringing, and quite likely their parents did too. Raidah’s family are also Muslim, and the Black Muslim experience in the US is markedly different from other Muslim communities, often tied in with historically Black colleges, fraternities and sororities, etc.
Raidah’s parents are painfully aware of the game as it’s played being Black and occupying a status that white people tend to think is exclusive to them. They know the boundaries of the privilege they’ve managed to amass, and how conditional it can be if you make a misstep. They’re very aware that merit often matters less than who you know.
And, for better or worse, they have never let Raidah forget that for a second. She had everything planned out, she was going to know the right people, and she was not going to squander what her parents gave her.
It’s not really working out that way. Life is getting in the way. Sarah knocked out a key pillar in what Raidah considered her support structure. Joyce knocked out another.
The pressure from her parents, real or perceived, is still there. She may well be in the shitty parents club as much as anyone.
All of this is implicit in Raidah’s characterization. Her method of coping with it isn’t great, but just as much as Dorothy she is aware that trying to unpick this could derail EVERYTHING, and she’s not ready for that, especially since like Dorothy she’s under the impression that would carry some lifelong consequences.
Ah, is Raidah specifically Black? I always read her as Arab but I wasn’t aware if her ethnicity had been specified in supplemental material. That does add another layer to things though, you’re right.
I’m not sure if it’s been directly stated, but the “We’re going to be a lawyer power couple” plan she had with Jacob, who she sought out because his big brother is a reasonably famous Black lawyer seems to slot into a very particular vision for her life.
I had personally not taken it into account because a fair number of Black Muslims changed their names when they converted. That’s admittedly me extrapolating and fitting a narrative, but at the least it didn’t immediately suggest an ethnicity to me.
It’s possible, but I don’t see any reason to think she (or her family) are Black American converts to Islam – especially not to any of the “Black Muslim” groups (like Nation of Islam) that aren’t considered mainstream Islam by most Muslims.
Indian or Pakistani is probably likely, given the name and a few other clues, but a family that immigrated from an Islamic region of Africa is possible too.
Oh wow, I guess it’s true that we don’t know Raidah’s racial background! I was partially under the impression that she was a Black Muslim too, because seeing North African Diaspora rep is so rare that I wanted to believe™, but also because her little hair pouf always reminds me of the kind of blown out straightened hair my Mom + Aunties tend to get. It’s be pretty sick though if she was southwest asian!
It’s unfortunate that you view the observation of structural racism as a character flaw, particularly given that the entire storyline we just read revealed that both Joyce and Dorothy had selfish reasons for being at the protest, and neither was acting out of strong ethical or moral concerns like Jocelyne and Asma were.
This is not a case of “reverse racism”, which is also not a thing. Neither is it a case of ageism. She is maybe being a little rude and dismissive because she does not like either Joyce or Dorothy, but being rude and dismissive doesn’t make her incorrect.
Hard to evaluate Raidah’s conduct in this trip when her assessment of white freshmen in general is spot-on, but her assessment of Joyce and Dorothy specifically is at least 60% caused by her being kind of an asshole.
She has legit beef with Joyce, and Dorothy has done a piss-poor job of unpacking her vision of herself as the person who’s going to step in and Fix Everything And Everyone, which can be (admittedly uncharitably) read as a bit of a White Savior thing.
In Raidah’s eyes, Dorothy has not Done The Work, and has unrealistic ideas of what The Work even involves, and where her path would lead.
But at the same time, there’s a bit of familiarity breeding contempt there too. Dorothy had everything planned out. So did Raidah. Raidah has had to recalibrate that a couple of times so while it may be petty, she decided to tear down Dorothy’s a bit too.
Which while the execution was not kind and not meant to be, has driven Dorothy’s admittedly fitful growth.
You raise a lot of points which are why I assessed about 60% being an asshole. But a lot of her assessment is based on pigeon-holing people into quick and unflattering archetypes, predicated largely on the fact that the circumstances under which she met them made her hope she wouldn’t end up liking them. Even when there’s some truth to the conclusions she reaches, it’s still kind of a shitty way to treat people (people in this case not meaning Joyce and Dorothy specifically, just people in general).
Yeah, if it wasn’t coming from Raidah the Networker specifically, I’d judge it as a fair uninformed view for simply smelling the gas on a pair of freshmen.
And to what extent is she being an asshole to them because what she’s seeing is “that Hillary Clinton wannabe whose life’s dream is to be a war criminal” and “that fucking [UNPRINTABLE] who ran roughshod on my relationship,” both of whom are “friends of that goddamn asshole who got Dana yanked out of school?”
Yeah, “Sarah sent Joyce to break up my relationship with Jacob which Joyce then proceeded to do with a shocking quickness” is not an unreasonable interpretation because, you know, that is exactly what happened.
The fact that Joyce doesn’t have a malicious bone in her body may endear her to readers, but Raidah is justified in a LOT of things.
I’d disagree on Joyce not having any malicious bones! Some of those bones can be downright nasty. Possibly her femurs?
Regardless, agreed. People seemingly forget that Raidah has legitimate beef with Joyce (and Sarah! even though we know Sarah’s side of the story, and how she feels justified in what she did, we noticeably don’t have Dana’s or really Raidah’s).
Eh, I’ll start caring about the wrongs done to Raidah when she stops being such a one-note, stereotypical bully. Raidah’s gone from literally bullying people at the mall to now scheming to break up Sarah and Tony just yesterday.
The fact that she made two out of those three assessments is what makes her an asshole. She’s had a year to see things from Sara’s perspective, and maybe not agree with it, but at least see where her actions came from. She’s had sufficient interaction with Dorothy to know that, while there are a shitload of flaws that mitigate it, Dorothy is ultimately driven by genuine conscience.
Joyce she might be at least somewhat wrong about, but she does at least come by it honestly.
Why would she be at all inclined to consider Sarah’s perspective? She knows what Sarah thinks happened, but it doesn’t align with what she believes – and what Dana has told her. Remember, she’s still in contact with her.
Dorothy she knows as that obnoxious white liberal freshman, she’s barely interacted with her. What reason does she have to give her a second thought?
She’s completely justified in hating Joyce, I’d hate her too if I was in her place! Joyce broke her and her boyfriend up!
Knowing what Sarah thinks happened and knowing that it doesn’t align with what she believes would be an entirely reasonable position to hold if that was the end of it. But she also explicitly states several times that Sarah is lying about what she thinks happened, and instead ascribes to her much more sinister motivations.
“I know you did what you think was right for everyone involved, but I think it caused harm and I resent you for it” is an entirely different thing than “You deliberately schemed to fuck over my friend, entirely for your own selfish gain.”
Sarah herself has admitted multiple times that one of the reasons she did it was because if her grades slip she loses her merit scholarship, and she can’t afford to attend anymore. That’s a valid concern, but it’s definitely not a selfless one.
Remember that Sarah, unlike most people, is more likely to de-emphasize concerns that reveal that she cares about people. She emphasizes that because it fits her misanthropic grouch persona.
Selfish and selfless aren’t the only two options. “Everyone involved” can include herself, as long as it doesn’t exclude everyone else.
It’s worth remembering that her initial solution was to find Dan a therapist. That would have meant at least a year before her life went all the way back to normal. She only changed tactics because the same people accusing her of stabbing Dana in the back refused to help her help Dana the better way.
We’re introduced to her when she and her friends run into Sara and Dina at the mall, where she and her friends make fun of both of them because they think Dina’s intellectually disabled. She half-assedly objects when one of her friends makes it a little too on-the-nose, and objects a bit more strongly when her other friend outright drops the r-slur. Then two appearances later, she’s still hanging out with both of those friends.
Meanwhile, the following is an actual exchange she had with Dorothy:
Dorothy: “Don’t we all agree we should prioritize rhetorical oneupsmanship less than understanding the human cost of our actions?”
Raidah (pointing to herself): “Dorothy? Future lawyer. That’s a no.”
Based on that interaction alone, I think I might have been phrasing it not strongly enough: She knows Dorothy has more of a conscience than her, and not only does she not care, she’s actually willing to boast about it.
I go to protests a lot, and I’m an old white guy. There are legit reasons to be cynical about old white guys. And who knows if my motives are “right.” But I still go.
Think that over, Raidah.
Also, Joyce and Dorothy? You both stink of tear gas and sexual arousal. Best get upstairs and out of those clothes.
Going back in the protest was both a defining character moment for these two, AND an example of them not really thinking about the reason for the protest or the larger ramifications of their actions, just themselves. That’s also a defining character moment, as is what they do about it from here.
There’s no way that’s just a random dig from Raidah, they totally did get caught on camera. This is about to blow up and I am sitting with the popcorn.
So I think ultimately the author had a difficult needle to thread here and he did a pretty good job of it. But not a perfect one.
Raidah’s last words are effective specifically because the comic used a protest mainly in service to the character of our two white freshman leads. Because Willis can’t go back in time and un-ring that bell, a comic where he has a Muslim* woman go “hey, that was bad” is the next best thing to a direct author’s note apology being inserted. So credit there.
However, I have a problem with her last line. It only works in the context of Joyce and Dorothy’s actions. Absent that, it makes it sound like the position Raidah is advocating is “White freshmen should sit down and shut up”.
So let’s say someone who reads the comic interprets it that way (Obviously, an author is not responsible for every interpretation any reader anywhere could make, but when an interpretation is pretty easy to make, as I feel this one is, it’s reasonable to consider.). They have two options as I see it: they can take that statement as a position advanced by the author or they can see it as an antagonist being wrong. And I think the strip favors the former interpretation.
Because don’t get me wrong- Raidah is obviously an antagonist, and a tremendous asshole. But in the context of this strip being, functionally, an apology for the author’s previous misstep, it doesn’t make much sense for her to suddenly be wrong-headed about this. Which leaves the interpretation that Dave Willis is saying that white freshmen should “stay in their lane” and leave the real work to minority folks.
I know that this is not a position Mr. Willis is actually advocating for. But it’s one that, I feel, a reasonable person (not someone “looking to be offended”, for example) might make.
And so I want to push back on the notion while simultaneously acknowledging that no one might actually think that.
Because I *do* think “stay in your lane” comments are worth refuting. Because ultimately they come down to the notion that the mere presence of a majority in a minority space is inherently problematic.
I could bore you with a discussion of my personal circumstances here, but TL;DR- I’m a white male ESL teacher in a poor urban district and I live in a town that’s about 3% white folks. I live “majority in minority spaces” every single damn day of my life. And I could make rhetorical arguments about the contradiction between “stay in your lane” and “silence is complicity”, but ultimately what it comes down to is that I believe in what I do and I believe that it makes my little corner of the world just a bit better of a place. And any argument that what I do is “overstepping” or “imposing” is going to fall flat in the face of my lived experience.
Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.
*The protests being about “Bulmeria” rather than anything IRL creates another wrinkle, since the name always rang to me as being “Eastern European”. That, obviously, doesn’t preclude it being a Muslim country- you only have to look at the issues Muslim folks in Bosnia-Hertzegovina faced during the Yugoslav wars in the 90s as an example- but it makes things trickier than they would be if the protests were just directly about the Gaza genocide.
To give an example of that lived experience, mostly because it’s a nice story that goes in my folder of “fun anecdotes to share when talking about work”-
Earlier in the month, I got a new student in my summer school class of rising 2nd grade ESL kids. This young lady was visibly crying while the rest of the class was eating their breakfast.
I talked to her, and confirmed that she had enough conversational English such that I wouldn’t have to try and use my (frankly abominable attempt at) Spanish to tell her what I wanted to say. And I told her that I had faced this exact same situation yoicks ago when I worked in Japan and had another 7 year old who was so scared of her first lesson that she threw up all over herself (thankfully this child never had that problem!)
And I told her that after one or two classes, this Japanese student came in smiling and happy, and I hoped that she would feel the same way.
Now, about half the mornings she comes in to summer school, she comes up to me and gives me a hug, and she’s one of my more attentive students (it’s 2nd grade summer school. The bar is super-low, but she clears it haha). Seeing her conquer her fear has helped make what has otherwise been a frustrating experience to be much more bearable.
More charitably, I’d say the message of this interaction is “activism is a sensitive space, and you should take care when fighting for the rights of the oppressed not to center yourself, nor to consider yourself entitled to the grace or gratitude of those you’re fighting for.”
I think that’s absolutely the intention. But language is not a perfect system, so sometimes our intentions get misinterpreted, which is where my comment came from.
There, too, while it may get me accused of “tone policing”, I do think that majority activists are entitled to react negatively to what they see as undeserved criticism.
So, for instance, if we posit a counterfactual where Dorothy and Joyce had been part of the encampment for days out of a genuine desire to see change, I wouldn’t expect them to just “take it on the chin”.
As should be obvious by now, I like to relate things to my personal experience, so let me do that again now.
A couple of years ago, shortly after I moved to my town (3% white, in case you don’t feel like scrolling up), I was on my way to a bus stop with my eyes on my phone and my big headphones on. Because construction meant the sidewalk was closed, a black woman in front of me came to the conclusion I was following her. While I obviously apologized for the confusion, unfortunately we were going to the same bus stop so I had to keep going in the same direction. She insulted me a lot as I tried to de-escalate, eventually accusing me of racism simply because I was a white guy in a black town. And while I do not in any way shape or form wish that woman ill, I hope to never see her again because I don’t believe I deserved that, and I reserve my right to feel upset that walking to a bus stop minding my own business was taken to be a hostile act.
I’ll obviously cop to not being perfect. I do want to give an example where I would be a jerk for pushing back on criticism. A month ago, our district had an “Olympics” event that I chaperoned for. Our school was chosen to represent Ghana. Some of my ESL students are Ghanaian, everyone got into cheering for Ghana, a good time was had by all. On my way home from work that day, a black woman got my attention and asked why I was wearing a t-shirt that said “Ghana” on it, and I got to explain what we did- she was very appreciative!
That experience being fresh in my mind was probably why I didn’t stop and consider how it would look when I saw a woman whose wrap was in the colors of the Ghanaian flag and said “excuse me”, wanting to ask if she was also from Ghana and share this positive experience. She gave me a look and sped up, justifiably sus of why a white man was talking to her out of the blue. I’ll take the L on that one, and criticize myself for not thinking hard enough about how I came across.
Most of the time, if someone makes a joke about “white people” or “the straights”, I’m just going to roll my eyes and move on. It’s not worth it to confront tired stereotypes or microaggressions against me when I’m in the majority on so many things and minority folks have to deal with much worse. But again I reserve the right to find said jokes tiresome, unproductive, and a sign that the person making them may not be worth engaging too deeply.
I think it would have gotten the message across better if Asma had made this point. This is the essence of Monday morning quarterbacking, I’m well aware.
But I think Raidah’s antagonistic role in the comic means that there are folks who might otherwise get the point who are dismissing it because “Raidah is a self-serving bongo”.
I actually disagree? I mean, in a total vacuum, maybe, if Asma hadn’t already called the girls out at the protest (and gotten a LOT of flak from people for doing so), and if our last shot of her hadn’t been visibly troubled by other things.
I think having her make this snipe at Joyce and Dorothy right now would probably feel a little redundant, and definitely wouldn’t be that much better-received, from folks who would think she’d already been “mean” enough to Joyce and Dorothy earlier.
I don’t think there’s really a version of this where any character points this out and the comment section doesn’t get kinda frothing mad.
Let me be very clear: what I disagree with is the idea that Asma saying any variant of this line would’ve gone over significantly better with the comment section. Just… idk, go back a few days, and look at the sheer number of comments complaining that Asma was needlessly rude and hostile to Joyce and Dorothy, that she should’ve assumed the best of them, that saying Dorothy had “cop energy” was unfair, etc.
You’re free to disagree. Like I said, I’m nitpicking here, this is not something with stakes attached. But I think it would have disarmed some of the bad faith arguments.
Well, let me for sure agree that there would’ve been DIFFERENT bad faith arguments. It’s definitely true that a lot of commenters were already predisposed to dislike and dismiss Raidah, no matter what she says!
I unfortunately expected it, but that’s because I’m from the south and hear this talk often. Never underestimate the bruised ego of white people when slightly inconvenienced or insulted.
Or when we’re not even insulted or inconvenienced, someone just admitted we’re white. Even surface-level acknowledgement gets people defensive, For Some Reason™.
I’m not going to assume anything about you, or your life experiences. I’m just going to suggest that you should ruminate on why Raidah would be dubious about the intentions of white people that she considers to be uninformed being present at a highly politicized protest. You don’t have to agree that she’s right to make assumptions about them. But I think it’d behoove you to consider her perspective, particularly as a brown Muslim woman.
Also Dorothy was textually uninformed about the protest. She didn’t realize how subversive it was being considered by campus administration or that they had taken measures to suppress it. Anyone with any knowledge of this kind of protest would have taken those sorts of things as a given.
She absolutely knew they took measures to suppress it, she just didn’t expect them to be that extreme. In the strip back on the 3rd she was aware that the laws had been changed that morning to combat protests. Also yes I know they took her real life experiences into account when admitting her, that doesn’t mean she wasn’t qualified. Yale turns down reams of qualified applicants because they lack life experience. Not exactly a “lmao” worthy thing to point out.
I think she knew about the change because of this strip here where Asma informs them of that law change when Dorothy asked why the protest was being fenced in.
She’s also a poli sci major who is regretting being a poli sci major. She’s also a freshman which means she’s in the intro level classes. She even admitted a few strips ago that she has mixed feelings about protests because she’d prefer everyone just get along. I don’t think this makes her a particularly informed person with regards to protests.
Like, yes, she’s indicated that she wants to change and she wants to challenge the part of her that’s complacent rather than activist — but she wants to change. She hasn’t changed yet!
Exactly! And hearing from other perspectives, such as Raidah callously (but…not incorrectly) reminding Dorothy that being President comes with war crimes, can help. It’s definitely not what Dorothy wanted to hear, but Dorothy is on the whole unfulfilled and perhaps by having that harsh lesson broken to her early it’ll help her to change compared to wasting her life for a job that she’s going to be let down by.
My whole perspective here is, of course, absolutely colored by my own experiences… and one of those experiences was being shocked out of my well-meaning white nonsense but some folks who were justifiably angry and didn’t sugar-coat things.
That approach isn’t always going to win people over, but the idea that it’s never the right thing to do… bugs me, because it absolutely was in my case. Because if I’d instead gotten an extremely patient and polite explanation of why what I’d said was ignorant and inappropriate, I genuinely think it would’ve rolled off my back instead of sticking with me.
Also, not every conversation with a marginalized person is gonna be productive outreach, nor does it need to be! Raidah is just a person trying to get through the dang lobby on her way somewhere else. It’s okay if she’s grouchy and off-putting to these two girls she doesn’t even like.
Which, I just have to say, really feels like a very strong description of some extremely mild criticism. But even granting people that she’s being an asshole — that’s okay.
I’d feel differently if, say, someone else — maybe Roz??? — was in the middle of gently explaining to Joyce and Dorothy why what they did wasn’t okay, and Raidah…… I don’t even know, interrupted it to tell Roz not to waste her time because Dorothy and Joyce are hopeless and white people are incapable of learning???? That, I might say was genuinely counterproductive. MAYBE.
I just think “it’s not my job to educate you” and “well, someone does need to sign up to do some educating, writing off everyone who doesn’t already know this stuff is counterproductive” can, very much, coexist — and that folks in the first camp shouldn’t actively sabotage work being done? But Raidah’s just… she’s just being a little snotty. It’s fine. It’s literally fine.
Honestly the only issue I have with Raidah is that sometimes we see her interact with her friends and it sounds way too manipulative, like she’s a supervillain. Everything else works well enough, but those scenes leave me confused
I think it’s important to note that Raidah here is less a character than she is a vehicle for the author to go “hey, I recognize that I pushed an important political movement into the background so that I could frame two white girls kissing in a particular way. That was shitty and I apologize.”
But obviously I’m not gonna assume that a given strip with someone making a point like this is “forced” post hoc just because the character making the point just so happens to be Muslim.
Hell, Raidah was the one who literally start the chain reaction of Dorothy changing in the first place by reminding her what US Presidents actually do.
Like, the way I see it, there shouldn’t be a need to do like, the progressive equivalent of hiding vegetables in brownies or some crap, because directy adressing it is something he is, and very well should, be openly and unapologetically doing.
Same goes for just about other form of direct action. When MLK was in jail, he literally wrote all about how we are well beyond the point that we can just treat racism as this problem that’s just gonna automatically fix itself in due time if our oh so perfect capitalist democracy system is left to run it’s “””natural course”””.
just for the record, that IS what Raidah called her; Char is the one who used the r-word (and Raidah criticized her for it, albeit gently, the way one tends to call out a friend they care about).
(Sorry, I felt like the strikeout maybe indicated you were misremembering who said what. Raidah was still ableist to Dina, just in a… different way, orz.)
The writer of this comic is a white male. Most of the readers, if the readership follows standard web comic demographics, are white. This is mostly whites discussing what whites think people of color think about whites. There is a definite amount of echo chamber here. What do non-whites think of this? For example, The thread from Yotomoe, who is black, has a bit different perspective than most other comments.
That said, as long as we remember our perspective, this is a great discussion. The level of reflection on whites, performative actions, what constitutes racism, etc. is wonderful.
I want to say that as long as we all criticizing both Dorothy and Joyce, I want yo praise Willis for not taking the easy road. Since some posts from his BlueSky account, I want him to acknowledge this compliment.
the people who dismiss this effort as “white guilt” or with some other Totally Non-Political™ thought-stopping cliché can honestly go suck and swallow a stop sign
I DEFINITELY expect Willis to improve on how he covers issues like this (if only because of how I’m personally affected by them), but in the moment I really don’t have it in me to *judge* him for his errors if that makes sense.
Personally I think bigotry is…exceptionally easy for humans. It’s how we formed tribes, it’s how we stayed safe. But now we have created societies large and diverse enough that this instinct no longer serves a grand purpose. But we still have it. And we do what humans do. We try to rationalize it.
It’s so frustrating watching people bend over backwards to justify why it “is ok to group people together for their physical traits but only in this specific instance” Why is it so important that you have to be allowed to be mean to a group of people? Why are we working so hard to justify cruelty. None of asked to be born. None of us chose the country we were born with, none of us steered the course of society over the centuries . None of us got to choose our skin color or sex or gender or sexuality or abilities or family or hometown or species for that matter. I refuse to make someone feel bad for the crime of being born.
“But they’re reaping the benefits of a system-”
Then hate the system. That SYSTEM is probably taking something from them to even if you can’t see it.
“So what they get their feelings hurt? I could be in dange-”
So you think it’s ok to hurt others if you’ve been hurt worse? You prefer to spread pain instead of kindness because you believe you’re owed cruelty. Disgusting
“Having your feelings hurt isnt a big dea-”
A cigarette burn is much less severe than being tossed into lava but they both hurt and if you go around cigarette burning people for your own satisfaction you’re a dick (or a sadist)
Personally I have been left in tears from a passing comment. The very idea that cruelty is ok in small doses is sociopathic to me.
“Oh just put up with it. I’ve had to live through worse”
Not everyone is built that way. Some people are a jenga tower ready to crumble. Can you live with the idea of your words being part of the cocophany that caused someone to self harm? I think about that often.
I gain no comfort nor benefit from using the tools of the enemy as weapons against other. When I stand against bigotry I stand against the rhetoric that allows it to persist. If it’s not. Ok for someone to do it to me it’s not Ok for me to do it to others. They want us to hate each other. To see differences when we could see similarities. Fascism benefits from separating us into small groups. From us distrusting and hating one another. It hates solidarity. And kindness. Kindness is so much harder than bigotry.
I’m not blind to the differences we have, the societal traumas we’ve suffered, the disparity for groups, systemic power imbalance and growing political trends. I’m not immune to forming opinions of people based on immutable characteristics. But I’m working on it. I’m doing my best to see through my programming.
After I went to bed, I set a hard boundary where I didn’t allow myself to look at the comments section until at least two hours before the new strip comes up. In general I like keeping my interactions sparse, fun and cordial because it helps me to have fun and not be cranky when I see things I don’t like down here, but I suspected some of the conversations that were going to go down today and knew I was going to come out of it feeling pretty upset. Tomorrow is a new day but dang is it rough 🙁
the thing is, Raidah isn’t wrong because of the content of her opinion on white freshmen being performative, she’s wrong because the reason they were there was entirely orthogonal to the purpose of the protest and were trying to stop Joyce’s trans sister from being put into even more danger, i.e. for a separate but still good reason. which Raidah doesn’t know. so like, the whole thing is kind of… who cares?
IMO she’s wrong because if your first reaction to seeing someone who just got attacked by thugs for being at a (non-evil) protest is to belittle them, you’re part of the problem. Doesn’t matter if they’re Whitey McRichparents fortnite dancing in front of the cops to clout farm on tiktok, they are unambiguously experiencing injustice at the hands of your enemy. What does being mean to them accomplish, aside from giving you an easy target to vent your frustrations at?
It’s likely true, but there’s no evidence for it yet. They tell Raidah they were at the protest, she doesn’t know. She assumes they were there for petty reasons because they’re white freshmen. That’s all we’ve got so far.
Heybjust in case this needed to be say anymore: This isn’t racism. Full stop. If you think it is then i am sorry you are just incorrect and seem to misunderstanding a lot of stuff of how discrimination work.
It’s a dissapointing but predictable result of adults falling back on an over-simplified understanding of racism watered down for 6 year olds.
Under the pervasive influence of white Christian institutions in our country, their moral intuition desires a definition of racism comprised of rules such that obeying them down to the letter is morally correct in every context.
Asma and Mary both do something which can be considered in either case, “making a judgement based on race”
Such a definiton can condemn either both or neither, but when justice calls for identifying racist action, you simply cannot do it without taking context into account.
To effectively solve the problem, we must first understand that the nature and severity of the problem we are trying to solve is one which simply does not exist in some social historical vacuum
I don’t think it’s simply “an over-simplified understanding of racism watered down for 6 year olds”, it’s distorted understanding shaped to make oppressed minorities culpable for any resentment and to shift the burden of racism off of white people.
Systemic racism always has its place in any discussion but allowing yourself to give into lumping everyone into one gro7o to be disparaging is still a form of prejudice in my book. None of us asked to be born.
yeah I’m just pointing to the fact that this is a definition of racism which is overwhelmingly often the one handed down to white people when they’re in grade school, it’s a provisional understanding that’s but adequate for when you’re young and don’t really know any better about the workings of the society into which you are born
it’s not always born out of malice — just out of the fact that, well
it will always take a relatively big amount of time and effort to be factually and morally right for the sake of an informed public, better decisions and policy and a more equitable society
by contrast, it will always take a relatively small amount of time and effort to remain wrong, but be satiated with quippy rhetoric and thought-terminating clichés which allow one to feel “informed enough” and absolve their guilt regardless of what is actually true and what’s needed to be understood for a better society at large
which is not to say, that shallow understanding isn’t frustrating
“Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than complete misunderstanding from people of ill will.”
This is not a knock against Willis, but it is an unfortunate complication of the lack of development of Raidah’s character as anything other than an uncomplicated, Saturday cartoon villain. Every time I visit this comment section, I am stricken by the very first comment referring to her as a “bongo”.
It is very easy to dismiss anything that she has to say with the lack of nuance and texture she has been afforded in her every appearance to date. I’m certain that this can be remedied going forward, but I am disappointed by the general lack of grace extended to her in a volatile situation in which she has very clear stakes. She was completely right about Dorothy’s lack of comprehension over what being President would actually encompass, and she is completely right to be cynical here. Who, exactly, has given her any reason to think otherwise?
Folks get really mad when you suggest Raidah might be more complicated than a Saturday morning villain. It’s sad, because I think she easily has the potential to be the most layered and nuanced antagonist in the strip’s history.
It’s REALLY wild reading people confidently state that she must care less about the genocide than our white protagonists, just because she (checks notes) has persona enmity for Joyce, the girl who tried to steal her boyfriend, and once offhandedly told Dorothy war crimes are bad.
I went on a loooong digression or three over her character, but I still think it’s obvious that Raidah was once perfectly nice and friendly to Sarah, and soured over what happened with Dana, then soured further over Joyce’s active scheme to steal her boyfriend, and now is engaging in machinations to make both girls miserable, which includes pretending to befriend Jennifer and Walky in order to turn them against Sarah and ultimately Joyce.
People wanna extend that to “Raidah doesn’t like ANYONE, she only makes friends for their connections”, as if her initiation of Jennifer into her group wasn’t accompanied by an ominous “No more Sarah, no more Joyce” and a villainous expression.
And now they wanna extend THAT all the way to “must not care about a genocide that’s specifically against a group of Muslims”, liiiike.
the thing is someone can be deeply, deeply unpleasant as a person and still right. Heck they can believe most of the same things you do, and still kind of suck on a personal level.
Like. Yanno. How joyce at the top of the comic was a very ‘nice’ person and believed alllll that. but in reverse.
Also I’ll just assume as a black/mixed DOA reader the White Nonsense rating up above me in here is. Probably intolerable. Take this warning. Heed my plea. Theres nothing for you up there.
There are some solid reasons for a Muslim student to have not been there, and they don’t owe explanations in the first place, but given how Raidah behaves among and towards her social climber group, it’s likely just cynical calculation.
As people have noted, we don’t know much about her, but that streak of vicious ambition is so strong and confident that it doesn’t leave a lot of space to the imagination.
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Wow Raidah is a bongo, and she refuses to let the world forget.
I mean in this case, her instincts just so happen to be pretty spot-on in regards to what partially spurned Dorothy on at the last second during the protest. And considering her heritage, she has the right to cynical about this topic.
Yeah, I was gonna say. Raidah may be a bongo, but she’s only the third worst bongo in this strip at the moment.
I dunno, I’ll take “showing up for the wrong reasons” over “didn’t show up at all”
^^^ This right here. Participation is the critical thing.
^^zactly.
Zactly x 2.
This so much. It’s just like when people cry that corporations are supporting things like pride just to cash in. Well, duh, of course. It is still a good thing as it helps normalise and remove stigmas. Being backed by the money-mongers means that your movement is finally picking up enough cultural cachet that people who only care about money sees it as an investment worth the potential risk. (i.e. being boycotted by bigots).
Now that in Trump’s America corporations are recoiling away from supporting progressive causes, all the people who complained about their virtue parading might learn a thing or two.
What heritage? She’s American who lives in America, and she’s a socialite who cares only about herself. We’re not talking about Asma here.
Plus it’s not really her cynicism speaking; it’s just her personal dislike of everyone in Sarah’s friend group.
Raidah is still Muslim even if she doesn’t wear a hijab… so it’s exactly like we’re talking about Asma here? If Asma’s heritage as a Muslim woman is recognized so too should Raidah’s.
Well, Raidah’s family comes from the Middle East but you can’t assume she’s Muslim. There are a considerable number of Christian Arabs of various flavors (Copt, Marionite, Orthodox – they have their Patriarch in Jerusalem- Assyrian Apostolic. Or her family may no longer practice Islam. Maybe Raidah is a stone atheist.
This seems to indicate that she is a practicing Muslim: https://www.dumbingofage.com/2017/comic/book-8/01-face-the-strange/guzzle/
She’s definitely a Muslim. In addition to the strip Sean Franco linked, there’s one of the strips where Sarah is zoning out while Jacob talks, fantasizing about him, and he mentions a very specific Muslim religious practice – I forget what, but it had to do with one of Raidah’s baby siblings or nephews – had to do with a lamb or something. The text is partially obscured by Sarah’s imagination, but it’s still pretty clear.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-7/01-glower-vacuum/physical-2/ Found it!
Sean and Ivkra are correct. I didn’t assume she was Muslim, I remembered when she talked about going to a mosque while discussing religion with Joyce.
…dude reread what you implied about Asma again and think about why that’s incredibly racist.
“What heritage” is far worse than implying Asma does not share the culture. Because one is objectively true, however distasteful it might be to phrase it like that, in that context.
The context giving root of the comment should be the thing you point at with that word. Yes, we SHOULDNT be afraid to call a spade a spade, and therefore racist implications racist. But the discourse is a little polluted with accusations so readily slung with so little effort to explain.
I don’t think asking them to reread and then slinging an accusation (by their perspective not ours), solves anything honestly.
Fair point. I just viscerally didn’t like the implication that Asma (assuming she’s also American born like Raidah) was any less “American” and knee jerked a obtuse response.
Fwiw I don’t think it’s been established Asma isn’t a foreign student on a Visa, thinking about it.
Dude, just because you might be white and hate your own culture or love it too much, which the heck ever, doesn’t mean you can write THEM BOTH OFF as any manner of not belonging.
Migrant rights are human rights are citizen’s rights.
MAYBE look up the Tuskegee experiments and consider why black folks would not trust ANY American institution, medical, police, political or otherwise. What heritage? The heritage of being a woman when nurses will take any excuse to write in your charts you are hysterically drug seeking because you accurately stated the symptoms of a now well documented medical condition like endometriosis. The heritage of being black where their pain straight up is in doubt MORE explicitly than that. The heritage of yes, her family being rich, but in rich suaree circles she no doubt got to be dragged on the racism being more insideous, more masked but more present statistically, among all old money in this country.
See example: Trump extended family not liking him releasing MLK files at ALL because it reminds us what those with the last name of Trump were doing and saying in the civil rights era. Donald Sr. was a SERIOUS critic of the good Doctor Reverant. Critic is a very generous word for it in fact.
Being selfish doesn’t mean you deserve less rights and less consideration as a human being than anyone else, period, that’s what concerns us about what you said. And I’m sure some other stuff too, but I’m not equipped to speak on that. I just know the history you’re being VERY flippant about.
None of this is remotely fully dealt with “in 2025” as they keep sighing wistfully about.
Dorothys race had next to nothing to do with it, she was there because shes spirtalling about what she can do that actually matters and helps.
She didnt do it because “I’m white and important”. Like, at least the “white freshman” showed up unlike her.
Dorothy did it because she was spiraling about what she can do that actually matters and helps, not because it’s horrific for educational institutions to fund/support bombing civilians, but because it furthered her own character development and reaffirmed her sense of self. She ignored the recommendations of the protest leader and made out with Joyce instead. Also, it’s a lot safer for white people to go to protests where police might be involved, so saying Raidah wasn’t there isn’t a fair critique of her character.
It’s good for white people to show up to protests, hell, having more bodies helps, even if they show up for the wrong reasons. But Raidah’s criticism is kinda spot on…
Raidah doesn’t really know these people. Touch some grass
That’s true. She also blindsided them with hostilty and aggression. There’s no need for her – or you – to act like that.
And she even projects it onto everyone else, regardless of context. She’s an empty cynic who’s only civil to people she can try to bank status off of, so naturally everyone else is too.
Clearly, we need to set her up with Rachel.
Am I the only one holding a torch for Mary/Raidah?
I suspect there is something genuinely broken about Mary. Hooking up with Raidah would make that worse.
She isn’t wrong, though
She might be right about why they did, but she’s still wrong. She could be encouraging them to do it for the right reasons, encouraging them to do more research, and/or encouraging them to keep trying to help.
Dismissing them, and saying their help is worthless is a step back, not forward.
Not her job to coddle the white ladies!
That’s not coddling; that’s just helping others do the right thing. Our actions shape our thoughts, and vice versa. Continuing to help will help them learn, and grow.
Raidah doesn’t need to coddle she just needs to stop belittling people.
It’s really not belittling in this case though, because her assessment is basically spot-on.
Assuming someone did something good only for themselves? Accurate, or not that’s still belittling someone. Raidah didn’t have to include the comment she did so to make Joyce and Dorothy feel lesser; not teach them, not argue, not debate, not even asking if they went for the right reasons. Raidah’s comment is intended to be belittling whether she is right or not.
Raidah doesn’t have an obligation to “teach them” though. And the main reason why Raidah is cynical about this specific topic is because reality has validated that cynicism for many PoC many times in real life. Raidah is being rude and harsh sure, but belittling does not fit because in this case Raidah being right about her assumption doesn’t mean she saying it just to make them feel smaller but rather forces self-reflection just in a mean manner.
Being right about why they did it isn’t the point; even if they had done it for the right reasons Raidah’s comment was designed to put their efforts down.
She could just have kept her mouth shut.
@Theozilla
I can’t reply to the comment since we have to many in a row.
You make a good point that it does make them reflect. I still think Raidah only said it to make them feel lesser. Yes no one is obligated to teach anyone anything. However if you believe something is doing good for the world then you should at minimum want more people to understand. Raidah’s not doing that here; ironically I feel like Raidah is saying that to make herself feel superior, even if it does no good in the world.
I don’t doubt that Raidah has contempt for them, but I don’t think think Raidah was concerned about whether she was making them feel lesser, I think she was just cynically bitter and wanted to express said bitterness.
Her assessment *happens* to be spot on.
For all Raidah knows, they could have easily have done it for the right reasons.
That’s the thing about people, they’re not all the same.
That’s a lot of it. She was right about these two, but mostly by accident.
Would she have reacted differently to Jocelyne?
Would Raidah have reacted differently to an older woman she doesn’t know than she reacted to these two girls whom she both knows and dislikes? Um, yes, I think she would have.
Actually her assessment is WAY off. They didn’t go to the protest to get attention. They went to the protest to warn Jocelyne her dad might be on to her. Dorothy stayed because she wanted to do something meaningful for once, instead of always playing it safe, and Joyce stayed because she wanted to support Dorothy.
Sure, Dorothy wasn’t doing it for the “right reason,” but she wasn’t doing it to get attention, either.
Not a single person is asking for that.
Actively ridiculing for trying to help will ALWAYS be wrong. Period. Doubly wrong when you probably don’t give a flip about the protests personally one way or the other.
(I will eat those words if Raidah actually is shown to care later. But I suspect I will go hungry)
We’ll starve together, brother!
I would bet a single cheese pizza that Ridah only cares about the protests when she can use it as a weapon to make others feel small.
Exactly. Criticizing people for doing the right thing, whatever their reasons for doing it, increases the chance they won’t want to do it again.
There’s a difference between not coddling and not endorsing that ANY ACTION THEY COULD POSSIBLE TAKE, COULDNT POSSIBLY BE for the right reasons.
Difference between ambivalence and absolute passive aggressive hostility, and pretending they are JUST their relationship with Sarah who she doesn’t like, or JUST young when she’s all of 1-2 years older than them, or JUST white, as if defining people by their label they can literally not help being, isn’t some type of bigoted. Even if reverse racist isn’t a thing considering racism is a modern and WESTERN and CHRISTIAN and WHITE concept… it’s still not nice.
And yeah, Dotty’s right, can’t succinctly and politely say a single thing to that.
Kind of, say you don’t want to talk, while saying a lot for someone who doesn’t want to talk. She could have just passed them by. But she’s gotta get the “You Reek” in and then get the last line off.
Solves nothing, crab pot mentality. Don’t discourage the behavior you want to see. Other stuff like that. Buh, Raidah… I just wanted to keep thinking about how garbage roof all of these kids are sometimes.
Not her job to gatekeep a protest she didn’t attend, either.
Being a Muslim woman of color, she also had a LOT MORE to lose than most, so not physically attending a protest that was that night made illegal isn’t exactly all that selfish, self-absorbed or unrealistic.
It’s not her job to shout that they stink and be rude because she doesn’t like the people that make Sarah happy, be fair, haha.
Also keeping in mind that this is the Joyce who “teleported back 5 feet” after being informed she was Muslim, and Dorothy who genuinely was naive to have to be told it’s basically in a US president’s job description to aid, aibet, and actively rubber stamp more war crimes every. Single. Year. Globally.
So them going to the protest is a step up, but she has no reason to think both of them are model citizens because they attended a rally without reading ahead that morning if it was still a legal assembly (which in the eyes of the CONSTITUTION it is! Despite the uni having the technical right to ban it on their grounds, they are absolutely a traditional public forum even if they are a private owned business as well. You can’t get more traditional a public forum than an academy, the ancient Greeks had academies of sorts. The concept of a university started in the pit of an amphitheatre, literally, the basis of philosophy and PUBLICIZED higher learning IS social.
So even if they are private businesses either you accept all protests or none of them, choosing between them is discrimination.
But anyways all to say, not exactly a simple conversation. I’d link the recent Dannyphantom.exe short of “everything is that deep” here…
… Oh, other ppl are doing it, ban me if ye must willis
https://youtube.com/shorts/sHFg-1h4BgQ?si=4DLK3M1CApxFJgBX
Lol I guess not RECENT recent but I only seen it today
you don’t know she wasn’t there.
She didn’t say it was worthless. What she did was guess (correctly) that their involvement was driven primarily by personal motivations rather than political ones.
The personal motivation to warn Joyce’s sister that she may be outed to their father? Not exactly a selfish motive deserving of random ire from someone who starts a conversation with a cruel comment about how you smell. Raidah went into this conversation intending to be mean well before politics entered the discussion.
you’re not exactly refuting Raidah’s point that Joyce and Dorothy don’t know or care about
PalestineBulmeria, they were there for reasons almost completely divorced from actual political activismExcept Raidah didn’t limit herself to accusing them of not being there for the ‘right’ reason; she specifically opted to put on them the worst possible reason she could think of–one that, as it turns out, was only about 25% correct (they were originally there to warn Jocelyn, then Dotty arguably picked up the sign to be visibly ‘doing right’–that is, for the attention–but even then, Joyce didn’t give two flying fucks about attention-grabbing; all her fucks were for being there for Dotty).
The extent to which they were “doing it for attention” was also the complete duration of time in which either of them were actually protesting, though.
Dorothy picked up that sign to be right, right then, regardless of the cost. No more carefully modulated dissent that won’t undercut the long-term goal of being President. Dorothy’s now flying the flag of anger.
I think even that’s an uncharitable reading of Dorothy who seemed to be going full self-destructive and had no consideration of the “optics” at all.
civility police.
Reminds me of my highschool days where all the teachers would dismiss student petitions and protests and basically saying discouraging things about how we can’t change anything. This was even about new things the school wanted to do, like keeping the same teachers for freshman and sophmore year for core classes (ie math, science, history and English), that the students DID NOT want to do. It was a very depressing thing to constantly hear. Nothing more demeaning than your school constantly saying that we don’t care about your thoughts or opinions. No one likes being patronized.
Actually, she’s only right about Dorothy–Joyce did it because Dotty was there, and because she trusts Jocelyn to be on the right side of things. Not pure motives, of course, but then, we’ve never seen anything resembling a pure motive from Raidah, either.
Not related to today’s strip, is it too soon to wonder how long until Dorothy and Joyce break up?
not a reply, misplaced by forum
Never too soon for that, gimme your guess.
Willis seems quite convinced they’ll be endgame but… I don’t think they’re interesting enough as a romantic pairing for that. It feels to me, as a writer, like it’d be very very easy for them to get into a rut. It’ll be a few years, but I think we’ll eventually start to see some struggling to figure out where else they have to go.
It feels silly to even say “well that’s subjective” — obviously you know that!
I do think that Willis saying that Joyce and Dorothy bein’ gay at each other were one of their favorite parts of DoA indicate that they will be able to maintain interest, but I’ll be a contrarian for a moment and say that writing subtext IS different from writing text.
Also, of course, so far it seems like the likelihood a couple has of being happy and stable over the long term is kinda inverse-proportional to how front-and-center they are.
But there are also types of drama that don’t break couples up, too, like I don’t think Dina and Becky are in danger, despite several significant bumps.
It’s interesting that Dorothy didn’t join the protest to feel better about herself, rather it was the ineffectiveness of her prior world view and the hypocrisy of changing the rules at a point where she was particularly vulnerable. But she was vulnerable because she was feeling seriously bad about herself due to Joyce related angst. And now she doesn’t really feel so bad about herself, although she arguably has more reason to.
Nah, Raidah’s just the type to turn her nose up at people because she would rather be above someone who actually goes to a protest. Note, her ass wasn’t there, but I bet she’s totally okay with takin the credit as a black woman from other black women puttin in the effort.
All about connections with her, remember?
The reason they were there was to make sure of the safety of Joyce’s trans sister. Everything else was a side effect of their drama or them being unprepared, but that original reason for going is not what Raidah expected or knows.
And that’s a key reason not to retort, because it’s a *relief* that she doesn’t know. Social climbers with little sense of ethics but aiming for a career in law regardless are traditionally not kind to trans people, we have one as Prime Minister the UK at the moment.
Excellent point.
What do you mean by bongo?
Substitute for bongo.
It’s a reference to how Joyce previously could not allow herself to swear. So that’s the word she’d use instead.
And… it’s actually censored on here. I did not know that.
The “B” word. It’s a substitute for the “B” word. I hope that’s clear.
Opposite order. People were immensely shitty about Roz, so the word got censored here, and then Joyce said it in the comic.
Borngus.
Burger 🍔
Bung. Raidah is a bung.
B I * C H is one of the censored words in the comments, and “bongo” is what it replaces it with.
What an odd way to spell B O * N G O.
And this has less effect of reducing misogyny, but rather makes references to small hand drums misogynistic.
I didn’t realise this and before getting this far down the comments went to Urban Dictionary for a definition, which was confusing to say the least.
Pretty much the only algospeak example we use here.
TIL that when you comment the b word it gets turned into “bongo”
A comment on the internet calling a woman a bongo for making a completely valid point but not being polite and smiley enough while she did so? Well, now I’ve seen everything.
Doesn’t have to be polite and smiley, it just needs to be said with a little less contempt for them. Is she right about their reason? Yes. Is her comment still presumptuous, dismissive, and condescending? Yes. She could have used this moment to simply make them question themselves; instead she made them feel lesser, and insinuate their is help isn’t wanted.
She didn’t have to be nice, she just needed to be less hostile.
Tone policing a fictional woman of color is a new low that I didn’t realize existed but probably should have
Wow, so expecting someone to not be hostile with you is a new low, and is tone policing?
I don’t care who you are unless someone has done something to deserve it no one should be meeting with open hostility. That’s not tone policing it’s just asking to not be met with hate. Does Raidah go through more hate? I’m positive she does, within universe, and outside her universe. Everyone’s feelings are the same size; so maybe Raidah is actively hostile because that’s how she feels treated. That doesn’t make it right; even if there’s an explanation for why. I realize now I shouldn’t be so hostile to Raidah, and I still feel she was unnecessarily hostile.
Hostile is a strong word for what is, in practice, a snide comment as she walks past them and to her destination. It was unnecessary but not at all unusual (for Raidah).
It being usual for her to make unnecessary snide remarks is part of why she’s a bongo.
Womp womp
Except she’s not ‘right about their reason’, even. Initial arrival was to warn Jocelyn. Then Dotty lashed out by trying to take a stand, even though she is absolutely ignorant of the real reasons (the more I think about it, the less I see it as attention-seeking and more as a brief attempt to try to make her recent spate of bad decisions come to something good). And then Joyce went because Dotty went. So, no, Raidah is wrong, again.
Her point is valid… that Dor and Joyce are white and therefore bad?
Less that and more that the two are operating from a position of privilege and naivete, and so are less invested in the cause for any genuine moral outrage than just dabbling in trendy activism
Sure, but she doesn’t actually know that, she’s just making assumptions based on… oh, everything about them.
I actually really like Raidah as a character. I think she’s wrong a lot, but from early on we’ve seen that she’s less shitty than the people she hangs out with, and smarter – but also petty and insecure. The fact that she was a little manipulative with Jacob in very specific ways made me think that the status-chasing for her is… very, very much born of deep-seated insecurities. I really hope we get to know her better in this arc.
Raidah may be a bongo, but she’s not wrong. Joyce and Dorothy went to the protest to find Jocelyne and tell her that her dad saw a picture of her at the protest, not because they actually cared about the cause of the protest.
And yet, even when she’s ‘right’ (about them not understanding the issue at hand), she’s wrong about their reason (neither went initially because of attention-seeking).
… But she is wrong, because she accused them of going to get attention.
Which is not, in fact, why they went.
Raidah is boingoing at white freshmen because they didn’t arrive on campus with all of Raidah’s knowledge and experience.
“Hey Raidah, thanks for letting a couple sheltered white girls learn!”
(h/t Dorothy)
Not her job to help them learn. Not even a little bit.
Raidah’s a pain in the ass more often than not, but it’s not because she isn’t tutoring sheltered white girls.
It’s also not her job to judge them based off superficial traits.
No, but that fell under “what she wanted to do” so that’s also fine.
I think there’s a pretty significant difference between *helping* someone learn (what you said) and *letting* someone learn (what ValdVin said).
I agree Raidah has zero obligation to do the former.
But personally I think she absolutely ought to do the latter. As should everyone.
Fair, I did misread slightly
Oh, Raidah. What nonsense are you going to be involved with now that you’ve wandered back into the plot?
At a guess, outing at least Dorothy to her boyfriend in an attempt to snuggle up to the Dean’s ex-wife’s son.
Let’s hope she just walks off stage never to be seen again.
My $5 is on another outcome. 🙁
Assuming this wasn’t a one-off appearance…Raidah has reasons to hate Joyce and reasons to look down on Dorothy (I mean, more than her baseline contempt for literally everyone who can’t benefit her), so I could se her being part of kickstarting any drama surrounding this. Maybe she goes to Jacob about it…can’t imagine what that’d accomplish but it could happen.
What’s her reason for wanting to look down on Dorothy, again?
Dorothy wanted to be president which is inherently bad apparently
Dorothy isn’t rich and does not have any connections. She wanted to succeed by good works and diligent effort, which is inherently offensive to social climbers.
It’s impossible to be president and not be a war criminal… but Raidah of all people looking down on political ambition is absolutely absurd when contrasted with her own personal behaviors.
1. Raidah is status-seeking and feels contempt for those who are not.
2. Raidah detests Sarah in particular for personal reasons.
3. Raidah dislikes anyone in Sarah’s social circle because of #2.
The reason for Raidah to target Dorothy is that she was trying to isolate Joyce and Sarah from their friend group and Dorothy didn’t play along, even to the extent that Walky did. The reason for Raidah to target Joyce is that she cost her a high status boyfriend.
Isn’t her reason for hating Joyce “is friends with a girl she hates”?
That and “made out with her useful boytoy and actively worked to break them up”.
Is that…Jacob?
This comic has been going for 15 years and a lot of this relationship drama is completely lost to the mists of time for me
Correct. Jacob and Raidah were dating until Joyce came along and tried going after Jacob, at Sarah’s suggestion.
All of the previous strips still exist and can be read at your leisure.
This!
If you got nothing better to do butv reread one webcomic over and over: cool for you
This is probably another strip that Willis added recently in response to discussion about the lack of focus on the Muslim characters during/about the protest. I doubt it’s going to lead to Raidah being tied more into the relationship plot – though Raidah getting her impression of Joyce as a cheater/homewrecker confirmed would be fun.
I think the addition of the Asma strip was likely for that reason. It’s less clear that the Raidah strip wasn’t organic.
Yeah, how dare freshmen participate in political activity.
Right! How dare freshmen even exist.
Of all things, the Family Guy episode where Adam West says “I’m gonna teach you the lesson that it’s not okay to be a freshman” went through my mind.
NO MORE MISTER NICE GUY!
Honestly, of all the things Raidah’s done, being cynical about white freshman trying to be politically active is pretty low on the “asshole” list.
Its extremely rude, but she’s probably had personal experience with the sort that’s all in favor of being politically active for the right reasons riiiiiiiiiight up until the point where consequences (or their own privilege) start being threatened.
What value is there in that sort of instantly confrontational attitude?
It’s Raidah, I assume thats just her default when not desperately trying to climb socially
It gives you just enough charge to wake up in the morning.
Ego. Which is basically all Raidah has, behind the layers of pretense.
I think for Raidah, just the sight of Joyce’s face is plenty, because she’s still nursing her grudge over the mess with Jacob. It’s at a “look at her, eating crackers, what a bongo” level.
She also happens to be right, but I do also think she’s just instantly on red alert any time she runs into Joyce.
Disagree about Raidah being ‘right’. Neither girl went there to get attention for themselves. Joyce was worried about Jocelyn, and Dotty was worried about Joyce. She’s correct that they are not politically savvy about the actual issue, but that’s about as far as it goes.
I mean if you wanna get technical, she also didn’t say that’s why they went to the protest. I think she assumes they’d say they went to support the cause, and that they might even believe it. I think she also thinks she’s puncturing a self-congratulatory high, where they’re feeling better about themselves; where they might have specifically expected congratulations from her, after telling her they’d been at the protest, for example.
And she’s right that they didn’t go to the protest because they cared about the issue, and she’s right that Dorothy stayed behind to get tear gas on her clothes because she desperately wanted to feel better about herself.
Stuff can be two things.
I think Raidah is the sort of person who sees nearly every interaction as confrontation and/or competition and therefore strikes first so she’s not surprised.
[Insert rant about Racism Reverse Card bullshit here]
you know what, fuck it, imma skip this one, I KNOW there are better ways to support progressive causes than having arguments with random strangers on the internet
case in point:
game distributor itch.io now censors NSFW and LGBTQ content, because payment processors Visa / Mastercard got over 1000 annoying phone calls from a hate group
there are much more than 1000 of us who are affected by this, we need EVERY bit of help we can get for the sake game developers, queer and trans content creators from all walks of life
here is post with email/phone-numbers for Visa / Mastercard Services, so anyone in the world can make a call, and even tells you EXACTLY how you should word the message if you have trouble with that
I urge you to call/email if possible, and spread the word however you can
we have the collective power to reverse this, AND WE WILL
I remember the irony of someone telling me that I needed to get my pro-LGBTA and anti-fascist books off amazon to itch.io yesterday.
I also play multiple games from that site so extra oopf.
this shit is also gonna make getting DoA fan games out there much more difficult, as it’s probably not gonna stop at itch.io
I don’t wanna feel helpless
I don’t wanna feel like the walls are closing in T-T
I urge everyone who can do so to call/email the payment processors and spread the word on bluesky and other socials
for the sake of our future, we gotta FIGHT THE POWER
Your handle isn’t resolving, idk why
It works now, and also I sent an email to visa.
Man, it legit ruined my day when I found out about this earlier.
I was watching DingDongVG’s stream right as that went down, and the second someone in chat told him about it, he went the fuck off on Itch and the extremists threatening them.
Imagine me drawing a like button all over your comment so I can smack it.
Gonna amplify this:
Collective Shout, the jerks that they were, were talking about how it took “thousands” of calls to Visa to get this to happen.
I suspect this fandom alone could do about 20% of that if we all made one call today.
It takes a surprisingly small amount of ringing phones to move a mega-corporation if you do it as a concerted effort and threaten their income stream. As such, your call script should include “If I can’t buy the legal content I want with your credit cards, I will have to switch to cash/check/specialist payment processors, and if I have to do that I might as well ditch my Visa/Mastercard entirely.”
Just adding on info here, it should also be noted Collective Shout, the ones responsible, are a TERF organization.
I strongly recommend that if you do this, you don’t use a script. I know it’s hard for a lot of people to do this without one, but using a script makes it much easier to file it under ‘spam/chain letter/bots/whatever’ and block messages that use the script or delete them entirely without considering them.
Bluesky reports are that the calls are already wearing them out pretty hard. Literally, “Is this another one of THOSE calls?” responses and desperate attempts to get people to hangup and send an email.
I see they’re getting annoyed.
Good. Let’s do it more >:D
Time to BE AN IRRITANT
Yeah. I love being called WOKE as an insult. I mean, With Ordinary Kindness & Empathy is how I read it!
Nobody said woke.
I was referring to Dorothy’s “insults that describe irrefutably what I am”. People in social media often call me woke as if it is some kind of insult. Well, to me it is praise not an insult. Not exactly the same as their experience here, but relatable.
No, nobody said woke in the cartoon. I said it all by myself. I did not mean that Raidah was calling them woke (sincere or insincere).
She’s arguably kinda doing the opposite, since her implication is that their “wokeness” is insincere and performative.
Another character the strip could do without.
Raidah and Rachel should make out.
Have to assume this is another new strip Willis slipped into the buffer to course-correct after the reaction to the protest fiasco?
…what?
Willis has stated that he’s going to try to have more Muslim rep in the comic
That said Raidah is a more established character so its entirely likely that she’d have shown up anyway
Yeah the Asma strip a few days ago was new iirc. Previously her next appearance would have been some months from now.
It is a Joyce cheating storyline, that’s like Raidah’s special interest.
Yeah, even if she wasn’t one of like four muslim characters it’d be wild if she didn’t make an appearance.
It is, but if she was aware of that, she’d likely have led with it.
Wouldn’t surprise me at all if this was an addition.
Has Willis said he does this? Where is your proof? I mean, if *I* were a webcomic artist with a year’s worth of buffer, I’d just sit back and read all the comments with a smile. I’d occasionally say, “Hm, yeah, that would’ve been a cool story. But I’ve already TOLD my story, and you guys have absolutely NO FUCKING IDEA what’s gonna happen, but I DO! Nyah, nyah, nyah!”
Yes, Willis has been talking on their tumblr and and bluesky how he came to realize that the recent story-line was worthy of criticism in regards to how his web-comic has had a dearth of Muslim PoV characters and how there were issues with how a fictional protest that was still undeniably an analogue to the protests for Palestine was used primarily for the purpose of getting two cis white girls to hook up.
Yeah, he said so on Bluesky.
https://bsky.app/profile/damnyouwillis.bsky.social/post/3ltzl6kdm622q
Well, that just sucks. Writers shouldn’t revise their work based on reader comments. WILLIS, YOU ARE WEAK!!!!!
Revising it because you want to stay popular/relevant is wrong. Revising it because you think people made good points is fine, especially since he’s only ‘revising’ things that haven’t actually been published, yet, and therefore can be reasonably adapted to a deeper understanding by the author.
I’m a bit more concerned about whether or not Willis is going to be reaching beyond his grasp, here. Islam is no less malignant a force in the modern world than Christianity, but showing that sort of complexity without veering into pure stereotypes is difficult, even if you’re well-versed in the cultures involved.
Asma’s head-scarf, for instance, is there based on a teaching that is at least as toxic as Joyce’s former, “Everything good I do is because of God, no me” belief. It literally is there because Islam teaches that women are responsible for not leading men into lust. Not wearing some form of head-covering, in areas where Islam is the dominant religion, can lead to arrest, assault and straight-up murder, sometimes by the woman’s own family. Talking about these sorts of issues in the way Willis has tried, and generally succeeded, in talking about atheism, Christianity and Black/white issues is damnably difficult.
Muslim women, particularly in the west, may be hijabi for many reasons, including personal ones. A shotgun approach to criticizing religion is outdated and regressive.
Hey, Freemage, I kind of doubt you actually know enough about Islam to be making these criticisms.
Also, like, you might have missed it, but Willis’s criticisms of Christianity haven’t been as broad as you think they have. We’ve done a deep dive into specifically evangelical fundie Christianity, while notably not taking aim at Jacob’s Episcopalian beliefs.
Heck, Mormonism is one of the creepier sects, but Willis doesn’t have the same personal experience with it, so Agatha’s a typical “too-nice” Mormon character, and the closest we’ve come to criticism of Mormonism itself was Joyce apologizing to her because she realized that she used to look down on Agatha for believing such silly stuff.
You might not like Willis staying in their lane, but like. It does help prevent them from going on ignorant screeds like this one.
Wasn’t that kind of Freemage’s point, even if they illustrated it by showing some ignorance of their own?
Not that Willis was bad for staying in their lane, but that there are risks in venturing out of it to delve into Islam.
I mean, I wouldn’t expect a lot of criticisms of Islam, but just portraying Muslim characters as normal people (with the aid of a sensitivity reader, which we already know Willis employs) should be fine.
I don’t think DOA Muslim readers wanted nor expected Willis to write an entire kitchen-sink drama deconstructing the realities of Islamic faith in the modern age, there’s plenty of stuff out there by Muslim creatives that can tackle these things with more experience and nuance, we just wanted the few Muslim characters that were there to actually do something and have it matter!
The bottom line is that when you go out of your way to NOT tell stories with Muslim/Arab/SWANA characters in it because you find it to be “risker”, you just continue to other us as unknowable, unreasonable and not worth the understanding.
Also tangentially related but I’m TRULY tired of the Hijab/Modest Wear = Oppression correlation that non-Muslims like to bring up, because it’s almost always a condescending “gotcha”, regardless if that was the intention or not.
Yeah like Willis is white and obviously won’t know as much about Muslims and their culture as an actual Muslim, but it certainly can’t hurt for him to have Muslim characters have meaningful roles in the story!
re: “other us as unknowable”, this is literally how I feel about this dealio where kids are told by their parents to not interact with mentally disabled people because they’re mortally afraid of accidentally offending us
even if we are not offended, it means the kid will grow up to be reluctant to talk to disabled folk in general, and means autistic folk like me are still othered in society at large and so is still part of the problem
I really appreciate your input here, and really glad Willis still keeps a comments section for the sake of this kind of valuable, constructive feedback ^^
Ty IKWtMLS! That was my thinking, from what I’ve heard other folks from other minority religions say. Really great to have someone weigh in who actually knows what they’re talking about.
(And yeah, definitely have heard that… well, I should shut the heck up about head-coverings. It only makes sense to listen to Muslims who wear them instead of sticking my ignorant agnostic culturally-Christian nose in there.)
@Li, Totes!
I remember that I ended my big ole’ emotional spiel during the big Dojo Kiss of 25’ with a bid for people to check out “The Taqwacores”, NOT because I think it’s this perfect story that shows you unproblematic, unanimously agreeable Muslim characters ( for better or for worse both the book + the movie are such extreme relics of the respective time periods they came out ) but because it’s the best example of a story about *American Muslims in specific, written for and by a western audience.
There is just this sheer amount of VARIETY depicted in how all these crusty Muslim punks all explore and express their heritage and faith, even when it’s in direct conflict with each other, and it’s honestly one of the most humanizing depictions of Muslim Americans and Muslim communities being PEOPLE who have quirks and principles and insecurities like everyone else.
As for the Hijab stuff, it’s just something that really bugs me, and I’m not even someone who adheres to **modest standards of presentation. IDK it’s a really big and messy topic that I do NOT want to have at 2AM in the morning, but if you want a quick example as to how damaging this kind “Islamic Head Scarfs are repressing Women” rhetoric can be, just look up how “Laïcité” has affected the both French-Muslims and the wider Muslim population
*Really wanna emphasize that “American Muslims” part, because there’s PLENTY of books and movies and tv shows out there that are being made by people who live in the SWANA regions that are worthy of being explored and experienced.
**Partially because I only wear Hijabs for special occasions and holidays, partially because I err much more on the agnostic side of being Muslim-Agnostic
@NGPZ I also wanted to thank you for your kind words, think i fell asleep before I could respond properly. Your observations on how the well meaning “othering” that happens when you grow up paranoid of causing deep offense is very astute, especially the fact that “othering” bias comes in more shape than one. I think it’s something that we all struggle with at some point, and it’s really important that we sit back and be temporarily embarrassed than continue to be willfully ignorant, even if it does suck at times.
Also, the logic of “don’t write about anyone who isn’t exactly like you”… this comic wouldn’t exist at all, given the complete lack of late-40s ex-Christian white AMAB enbies.
Willis seems to have a genuinely great attitude towards criticism, where they keep trying and messing up and adjusting, and I bet this whole mess taught them not to try to hold back important spoilers from their sensitivity readers!
No one’s ever going to write a perfect story but it’s SO much better to keep trying.
how devoid of critical thinking skills do you have to be to think an author is “weak” for revising a storyline based on criticism of how a conflict based on real life events is handled in their story when the real life events in question are, like, Literal Bombing Of Civilians In Another Country, because the author thinks those criticisms are founded and substantial. like. hello.
Ah I see you’re one of those people for whom “censorship is any time a story changes” people.
Writers should absolutely revise their work if the readers comments make them aware of an issue they would like to solve.
Writers revise their work for all kinds of reasons. Why do you think you get to police which ones are good and which ones are “weak”? lmao.
It’s cause they’ve given into this right wing bullshit suggesting that there’s always this hard line mutually excluding personal/authentic expression from some abstracted notion of “””politics”””, and on top of that, the idea that one can always be safely prioritized over the other 👀
Writers can do whatever writers damn well please.
I think that’s the attitude they’re taking with Dorothy and Joyce. Which I can respect, but that’s not the attitude you want to be taking on a subject matter as serious as genocide.
Yeah this seems like it might be that. Maybe Willis learned? Or was making a point we didn’t see cos the arc isn’t finished yet?
Lot of hit dogs hollering in this comment section today
As wary as it’s worth being quick to perceive such things, ‘As racism, in this case’ is the proper answer.
Also, does anyone believe Raidah isn’t cynical about anything?
Are we not still settled on “You can’t be racist toward whites in the USA, because they’re the ones with all the power and privilege”? I thought that was the current framework.
it is, but apparently *some people* just can’t help but fall back on a shallow understanding of racism over-simplified for 6-year-olds, go figure (-_-)
Nah, fuck that. Racism is racism. Just because white people are historically better at being shitheads doesn’t mean the rest of the world gets a pass for shitty behavior. There’s nothing mature or deep about letting people act like assholes.
Who asked for the “rest of the world” to “get a pass” for shitty behavior? By my count, it was nobody.
The other term is “racial prejudice”, by the way. The thing people can do against white people is called “racial prejudice”.
This one, yeah. Prejudice, as in “pre-judge”, which is not only possible but almost unavoidable in some ways. I can’t really blame someone for being unsurprised by or wary of white people, after all the shit that’s happened in history.
Plenty of people define racism as “racial prejudice” in casual conversation.
Saying that someone isn’t racist because they’re a PoC, they’re just racially prejudiced instead is both tone deaf and needlessly pedantic.
We do need to maintain a distinction that systematic racism is a separate thing though, both due to scale and impact.
Tone deaf to what, exactly?
And yeah, lots of people disagree; it’s not a linguistics argument, it’s a sociology argument. One that’s been happening since the 70s.
Plenty of people do so, but this is a relatively recent shift and it’s entirely rooted in the backlash to the Civil Right Era and attempts to paint “reverse racism” as the real problem.
“Bigotry” and “racism” are different things. Racism requires privilege in a way that bigotry does not. Ditto misogyny, which is why ‘misandry’ isn’t a thing. Raidah might be being a bigot, here, but she isn’t being ‘racist’.
What is the point of defining terms in such a way as to make them exclusionary based on race or sex? In order to get in pedantic arguments with people?
The original point when academics and activist started doing it, was to try to shift focus to the more harmful systematic issues and biases instead of individual people’s personal faults.
For a relatively pure example of the latter, look at how some touch less sinks couldn’t sense black people’s hand, be, and therefore when they got installed black people couldn’t really use public bathrooms anymore.
As far as I know, no one on the design team that made those were personally bigoted, and the design wasn’t picked on purpose to hurt black people either.
But they still got made as a result of the systemic factors that had made it so it didn’t occur to anyone to include black people when testing them.
The idea was that by having a way to speak about the two as different it’d be easier to do something about the systemic issues, rather than just the more visible personal hostility one.
I can’t really speak to how successful that distinction have been, but that was the origin.
I’d say the original point for academics was more that they realized they needed a way to talk about non-systemic racism. Nobody back in the Jim Crow days would even have thought of “black people distrusting white people” as racism.
The point is that bigotry is a personal issue–it may be common within a society, but ultimately has to be addressed one person a time. Systemic racism, OTOH, is just that–it can ONLY be addressed at the system level, because it exists independently of the feelings of individuals within the system (though it will reinforce and is reinforced by personal bigotry).
FREX: Housing discrimination from decades ago continues to leave many areas blighted by disinvestment. Even though the number of people who will attempt to prevent folks of another race from moving into their neighborhood is now a small fraction (though still not small enough) of what it was in the 50s, the legacy of that era is a large number of high-crime, high-poverty neighborhoods where Black Americans are trapped.
Not just from decades ago. Even as recently as the 2008 housing crisis, black buyers were steered disproportionately into subprime mortgages compared to white buyers with the same credit ratings.
Even more recently, I’ve seen studies showing real estate agents steering black buyers into “black neighborhoods”. I have no doubt housing discrimination continues today – though I do suspect that the internet makes it harder than when buyers were completely at the mercy of agents.
Freemage, I disagree with your definition. Racism does not require privilege, or at least the privilege (and the system) can be very small.
Real-life example: A black friend works for a company which promotes black culture. Everyone who works there is black. They just had an opening for a well-paying position for which I am almost the perfect candidate. My friend told me don’t even bother to apply, since I am white. That is racism.
(I am not complaining to the EOE because I wasn’t actually planning to apply. Also, to a point, I agree with them. A little payback for centuries white racism is fine by me.)
Ever since this idea of Racism = Power + Prejudice came up a couple years back I was EXTREMELY suspicious of anyone who pushes it. Because it just sounds like the “I can’t be racist, I have black friends!” excuse. It’s just a little bit of semantics to shield yourself from accusations.
Definitely, and I think it’s extremely telling that many people who are generally descriptivist about language get vociferously prescriptivist about this one definition.
I’ve been saying that for years but the only time I ever hear the power + prejudice argument its after someone was getting called out for saying something really discriminatory against another race. And not just black people to white people. I’ve seen people say “black people can’t be racist to Mexicans cuz they hold no power over them” and like…that is not something I would ever be confident enough to say with my whole chest. But yeah it feels like it’s only ever said to justify being bigoted while “punching upwards” and I just find the kind of person who needs to justify lumping people into a group in order to insult them to be a toxic person to be around. You’re not better than bigots just cuz you pick your targets differently.
Raidah and her history aside…”Racist against white people” feels like saying I’m ageist because I despise the rich 60-year-old assholes who drive past my house in loud cars every day. In a world where global governing systems were built for and around accommodating white people on the backs of other races, whiteness is inherently privileged. Even if the word “racism” might be dictionary-correct by some definitions, it has a lot of implied context in modern use that means that “racism” against white people has all its teeth pulled. If we’re empowered and the other person is disempowered ..yeah, take it on the chin, because frankly the punch isn’t hurting you. Hell, whiteness is so inherently privileged that there is still more danger to the non-white person doing the punching than there will ever be to the white person being punched.
> global governing systems were built for and around accommodating white
> people on the backs of other races
Try to be a Southern or Eastern European in the West. Try to be an Irish in the XIXth century Not all whites are created equal.
Damn, I took your advice and tried to go be Irish in the 19th century, but I ran into a snag. See, it turns out you can’t travel backward in time yet, so I guess we’ll all have to just work with the standards of the time we actually live in, until we can physically go back in time to victimize ourselves.
Oh that’s okay, you can just go be a Slav in Western Europe then. LOL, we are so screwed that one American organization straight up classified us as PoC.
Correct, whiteness is a bullshit invented category defined entirely by relative access to privilege and can be revoked at any time by more powerful “white” people, though if any of us Irish-descended folks do become “not white” again we’re still not going to get back the culture or respect our ancestors, specifically, lynched so many innocent people to trade. Pretty pointless thing to get defensive about.
Primarily because I’d be catching flak for shit my people haven’t done just because I share a skin colour with Western Europeans.
I’m going to go ahead and cut off any um actually’s for ya Taffy. Feel free to let me know if I missed something
“Judging somebody based on the colour of their skin” racism and, “Oppressing people based on the colour of their skin” racism are two different things. The former, yeah, that can happen to white people. Can’t deny that. That’s not what people are talking about when they mention racism unless they are trying to undermine shiz – either intentionally or accidentally. The latter in the US? Hahahaaaaaaaah no. Nope. Nu-uh. Impossible to do to white people
When people mention Racism, they mean the latter. When you “um actually” this shit by evoking the former, you’re trying to undermine the latter
I think we agree with one another, here? You can’t be oppression-style racist against white people in the USA, in case I wasn’t being clear on which version I meant and assumed Rakeesh meant. You can judge white people based on out color, for sure, because [insert your “favorite” historical precent here] makes at least a little wariness healthy, but there’s no way to oppress us for it. I wasn’t trying to “um actually” anything, myself.
Oh yeah, was backing you up in case anybody tried to “um actually” you about, “WELL TECHNICALLY x y and z therefore you’re wrong”
Which… Kinda happened anyways
Gotcha gotcha. At this point, I figure anyone who genuinely thinks it’s possible to oppress a white person in 🇺🇲🦅🎇 America 🚓🪖💣is being willfully ignorant and can’t be trusted to choose a side, including at a restaurant.
Some white people are women.
Or gay.
Or trans.
Or poor.
Or differently abled
Alright keeping it a stack I didn’t really read the context before I posted that last comment. But I’ll stand by it in spirit even if it’s a bit irrelevant to the point being made.
Hey, I gotcha though. Intersectionality and whatnot, yeah? Like, I’m white and AMAB, but some of my other wiki tags include “differently abled” and “queer”, so unless I’m super careful with my presentation, I don’t get the safety my straight NT friends get. The way I phrased it was narrow, but I’ll add a slight amendment and say you can’t oppress a white American for their whiteness in specific. Lotta moving parts, innit.
@Taffy
Honestly, that’s definition I would have used until two years ago when I read a book that shifted my thoughts on the subject a lot, entitled Meditations on Frantz Fanon’s Wretched of the Earth: New Afrikan Revolutionary Writings by James Yaki Sayles. In it he says: “None of us is free from the responsibility to uproot racialized thought and practice-within ourselves and wherever we encounter it. As I see it, a “racist” is anyone holding the belief that the human species is divided into a plurality of “races”, some of which are superior to others. If you employ a racialized binary (e.g. “black” and “”white” or “sun people” and “snow people”) to categorize people, you’re a “racist” and you practice racism—at a minimum, you mistake the shadow for the body, and you’re wasting energy.”
This is not the same thing as colorblind racism that the definition of racism you’re using is trying to address (See the book Racism with Racists: : Color-Blind Racism and the Persistence of Racial Inequality in the United States is by Eduardo Bonilla-Silva for the go to example) & this is mirroed in Fanon’s writing itself when he says: “To us, the man who adores the Negro is as “sick” as the man who abominates him. Conversely, the black man who wants to tum his race white is as miserable as he who preaches hatred for the whites. In the absolute, the black is no more to be loved than the Czech, and truly what is to be done is to set man free….I believe that the fact of the juxtaposition of the white and black races has created a massive psychoexistential complex. I hope by analyzing it to destroy it. Many Negroes will not find themselves in what follows. This is equally true of many whites. But the fact that I feel a foreigner in the worlds of the schizophrenic or the sexual cripple in no way diminishes their reality. The attitudes that I propose to describe are real. I have encountered them innumerable times” Frantz Fanon, Black Skin White
& , Meditations on Frantz Fanon’s wretched of the earth
-”In the ivory coast, the anti-dahoman and anti-voltatic troubles are in fact racial riots. The Dahoman and voltaic peoples who control the greater part of the petty trade, are, once independence is declared, the object of hostile manifestations on the part of the people of the ivory coast. From nationalism we have passed into ultra-nationalism, to chauvinism and finally to racism.” Frantz Fanon, wretched of the earth.
The essays “Critical Race Is Awesome and Here’s Why”by Twin Rabbit, a Kalinago 4 field anthropologist and “Taking Black studies to the streets” by Paul Gilroy were also deeply influential on me.
“All Critical race theory did was identify the groups and how law became an instrument in the process rather than some colorblind neutral party.There’s no such thing as CRT inventing race. It identifies parts of society where race gets created and then maintained. A critical race theorist would use precisely the same methodology in China and be able to identify whole swaths of China, all Chinese, who are treated as inferior to other Chinese based on arbitrary physiological characteristics internal to china. And if you don’t believe me, ask the Uyghurs if racism is a thing………Really, if there’s a racial or ethnic category, and that category is being erased, CRT works just the same. It even worked for Irish scholars trying to prove Irish slavery. Don’t start furiously typing; The Irish were never the victims of the chattel slave trade of other peoples. What is true is at one point they were listed as one of the “mongrel races”, and cromwell did forcibly remove them from Ireland and deposit them in the Caribbean like some other minorities we know. It doesn’t excuse people trying to claim false equivalence on reddit and it definitely doesn’t excuse the Irish themselves by trying to get out of poverty by becoming slave traders, but as I said CRT itself doesn’t actually care, if anything it further demonstrates race is a moving target, whiteness itself doesn’t exist because they keep adding and removing who qualifies. If you personally want to devise a scale by which one group has suffered more than another, you can certainly try, but any good critical race theorist will also question how you plan to do that yourself without creating an arbitrary racial category for comparison and forcing people together who might say they have nothing in common if asked. Richard delgado made almost exactly that same point in his text, “4 reservations on civil rights reasoning by analogy.”
& “We always agree that “race” is invented but are then required to to defer to it’s embeddedness in the world and to accept that the demand for justice requires us nevertheless innocently to enter the political arenas it helps us to mark out” – Paul gilroy – Taking black studies to the streets
Raidah is not being racist at two white girls simply by being entirely correct about them being fair weather activists for a cause that (extremely likely) affects Raidah personally.
It’s not racism to point out that someone is being shallow, for crying out loud.
and it’s not racism for an Arab(? I’m not sure if it’s been stated) girl to not be nice to white girls, can we not go down that route please
Yeah, the amount of racism on display in the comic is somewhere in the neighborhood of “fuck-all” and “jack squat”, and it’s at least a little weird that we went there so quickly.
Putting all negative feelings aside and not trying to be sarcastic.
It is a little weird, but it’s not actually unusual, and the reasons it’s not unusual are why Raidah isn’t jumping that far to get to her conclusions.
Like, she’s an ableist jackass, but we should assume she knows her own experiences, shouldn’t we?
Oh, for sure. I understand fully what she’s on about when she brings up their whiteness, and I get the broader cultural implications of her assuming they were protesting for attention and to feel better about themselves. No doubt her implied backstory includes plenty of examples of that stuff.
Far as “not actually unusual” goes, that’s part of what I’m calling weird. It’s super common for any passing mention of whiteness to immediately devolve into elite quantification of what is or isn’t racism, and that’s really something I find odd about our culture. We live in a strange fucking society, and it’s getting weirder by the day.
Completely fuckin’ agreed, then.
I reject the ‘entirely correct’ framing, here. She’s correct that they clearly know nothing about the sitch in “Bulmeria”, but they did not go to the protest to get attention for themselves, and Dotty’s brief foray into taking a stand wasn’t even about getting attention for herself (I’d suspect Roz of that, in a similar circumstance). Dotty was going through a catharsis and was trying to externalize that, but it wasn’t about getting her name in the paper or impressing anyone. And Joyce only stuck around because she was supporting Dotty.
Also, like, Raidah didn’t actually say they went to the protest for attention or to feel better about themselves. She asked if they feel better now and if they got the attention they wanted.
This IS an accurate criticism of Dorothy’s moment of “you don’t know what I need”, which of course is why Dorothy reacts by sinking in on herself a bit and attempting a deflection.
After Raidah says she’s not cynical about protests, just white freshmen, Dorothy stops trying to deflect and just accepts the criticism.
It’s not a KIND comment, but Raidah doesn’t like either of them, and she doesn’t owe them kindness, beyond baseline “human decency”.
So where’s the human decency here?
@Astariel: I’m gonna skip forward a step, because I think we’re working with different definitions, and that’s at least partly on me, because I could have been clearer.
If you’ve ever heard someone talk about how every human being is entitled to a certain baseline of “respect”, and for some people, “respect” means letting them have autonomy, but for other people “respect” means treating them with deference?
That I think is the sort of difference of definition we’ve got, because the word I picked is commonly understood to be about treating others with respect and compassion — and I didn’t mean to imply that I thought Raidah was being compassionate, heh.
Raidah isn’t being kind or compassionate here, but nor is she, like, causing any real harm. She made an acerbic comment, clarified what it meant after Dorothy asked, and walked away.
Raidah is kind of the anti-Joyce and that actually makes her fascinating in this comic. Raidah is a mean, clout-chasing, bad friend. However, she is someone who has all the “right” beliefs about society, injustice, and making the world a better place. So she’s an inverse of Joyce who is a good friend, kind, and uninterested in status person who grew up with all the fundamentalist toxicity. Which makes Raidah someone that a lot of fans of the comic want to ignore the fact she’s spot on about Dorothy, Joyce, and their politics.
Especially given Raidah probably gets all manner of shit for being an openly Muslim brown person during these protests.
DOES Raidah have all the “right” beliefs about society and injustice? The thing I remember her most for besides dating Jacob and being Sarah’s nemesis was how horrifically ableist to Dina she was.
Yes, she did. I also remember Joyce having a mental meltdown at the possibility of visiting a mosque when Raidah invited her to visit her family’s one. Which is just as offensive. Two sides, same coin.
But yes, Raidah’s admiration for Jacob was predicated on the fact his brother is a big campaigner for civil rights and that’s where she wants to go as a lawyer as well. Her networking is with the belief she’ll be fighting for people.
We’ve seen Joyce grow and change. We seen no evidencd that Raidah isn’t at best the same shitty person she was when we first met her.
TBH The evidence is that Raidah has changed for the worse. The woman we see in Sarah’s flashbacks is nervous, conciliatory, and feels like she does want to actually make friends with her fellow freshmen as she networks. Now she feels cynical and cutthroat, and seems all-too-willing to strike up conversations with people she doesn’t like if she can put them down in the process.
Our only evidence for that being the source of Raidah’s admiration for Jacob were Raidah’s attempts to use Jacob’s admiration for his brother to manipulate him and possibly to suggest the fundy Joyce wouldn’t be okay with the trans rights he’d won a case for.
Anti-Joyce, you say?
Sort of a fun inverse. She’s worldly (for a sophomore), comfortable in social situations, and rarely sticks her foot in her mouth but also manipulative and quick to discard people.
What I mean is Anti-Joyce had a very different meaning in It’s Walky!
I actually read Raidah as anti-Dorothy..Or Dorothy’s opposite number.
They both use people, but Dorothy uses people on an emotional level—and regrets her course of action depending on how serious it is. Raidah uses people on a professional basis because ‘ends justify the means’.
Dorothy would move heaven and earth for Joyce, up to and including giving up all her intentions for furthering a political career that she isn’t even sure she wants anymore—at least not in that way. Her first reaction to Joe wanting Joyce was ‘seek different prey’ and might have done anything to keep them apart.
Raidah would move heaven and earth to reek vengeance upon Sarah for Dana—and has done so. Consider the reality that Raidah has not exactly sought to destroy Joyce for breaking up her and Jacob. Whatever your feelings on Raidah she must have at least had a fondness for him and their relationship, professional gamesmanship aside. Losing Dana though? Raidah seeks to destroy everything that makes Sarah happy to this day.
Finally—politically. Raidah’s focus is on civil rights law. She’s a symphony of shitty behavior as we’ve seen her (partially because she’s an opp for our main cast) but this is a noble goal. Dotty is our favorite neurotic mess trying to keep it all together but only up until recently she wanted what may be the most corrupting job in this country. Politician.
Cool observation.
Meh. Raidah’s social life sucks. She needs this.
On one hand, that was extremely uncalled for like everything Raidah says. But on the other, well, Dorothy said it herself. She was spot on.
Yeah she’s kind of got their number on this one
Dorothy: Listen, I may have said the Bulmerian situation is very complex and there’s good people on both sides.
Joceylne: It’s really not and no there aren’t.
Sometimes Raidah is “not wrong, just an asshole” and I always find her more interesting when she’s in that mode as opposes to her being just a complete bongo.
Raidah is unpleasant and nasty and frequently a selfish social climber, but also her perspective here is completely justifiable.
Not sure if it’s for the reason Radiah thinks but Dorothy and Joyce using the protest as a not so subtle cover for their own issues could definitely come off as insulting to those who are seriously involved.
And Dorothy’s response of “we just take it on the chin” is 100% correct.
Is Raidah wrong about Dorothy and Joyce’s beliefs in this regard? Probably. Its complicated, because *waves vaguely at lots of things*, but third-person-perspective gives us a lot of evidence that Raidah can’t have, we can at least give them the benefit of the doubt for the moment.
But there’s no point in trying to argue against it, even if Raidah was Miss Always 100% Right About Everything And Has Done No Wrong. Part of being in the dominant, oppressive class on a subject like this is that you need to be willing to let people vent, let them talk about the average and try to understand what their actual issue is.
Not that you should NEVER defend yourself. If someone’s coming at you with specific complaints that are factually untrue, that’s another thing. But Raidah’s just venting about unreliable white people who think they’re righteous but will bail at the first sign of backlash, you gain nothing from fighting this, there’s no reason to not let her end it with the last word.
No one is obliged to let people bully them, even if they don’t have much melanin in their skin.
Of course, but the wisest action in this case is to brush off Raidah as being her always-mean self — any further interaction would just prolong the abuse. Let her walk away and go on existing as white freshmen, it’s not like they could change that for Raidah even if they wanted to.
Of course, spread the word to avoid her to all of your friends and acquaintances. Make sure her name is mud everywhere you go.
I wonder if Lucy is onto Raidah’s manipulative toxicity yet?
No, she’s 100% wrong. They didn’t go to the protest to feel better about themselves or to get attention.
That’s not why they ORIGINALLY went, but that’s exactly what made Dorothy start fully participating against the wishes of the actual people organizing the protest.
I think the best commentary I’ve seen on reactions like this is:
“Don’t punish people for taking a step in the right direction.”
That will not encourage them to take more steps in the right direction. You don’t have to shower them with praise, and in general you shouldn’t, but ffs, don’t punish them. Encourage them – to take the next step.
Hell, you don’t even have to encourage folks who are moving the right way. You can simply let them move, unremarked.
I mean, sure, in this case, they weren’t actually there for the protest after all; it was coincidental. But Raidah doesn’t know that, as is evidenced by her own statements. She thinks they were there for it on purpose. And she chooses to punish them for it.
I see way too goddamn much of this out of the American left, and it is both a purity test and a massive self-own, almost a determined effort to keep resistance in a club, pure, correct, and most of all, small and ineffective.
I would rather people do the right thing for the wrong reasons over doing the wrong thing, or even nothing, every single time.
There are exceptions… but they are rare. This is not one.
(I organised a protest in 2007 about the reward-all-the-failures bank bailouts Bush II gave all his friends. Because the word “bank” was involved, the LaRouche cultists tried to join in. I ran those motherfuckers off, chasing and screaming after them all the way past Westlake until I was sure they were gone, because not all allies are acceptable allies. But while there’s a line, this ain’t it.)
Yeah, “let people do the right thing for the wrong reasons” needs a slightly deeper analysis of what is “thing” vs. “reasons” — to amplify your case for people not super familiar with LaRoucheies, “We are protesting against bank bailouts needed due to bank malfeasance” and “we are protesting against banks because they’re run by TEH JOOS” are not the same “thing”, even if they’re both “protesting against the banks”.
Which honestly, gets even more relevant with Gaza protests, because that’s definitely an opportunity for anti-Semites to try to shift opinion in their direction.
I am wondering what steps Raidah is taking, if any on this issue. We got to see people going to protest, counter protest. Carla having a personal crisis of “am I allowed to resist”. Charlie taking an interest in researching the thing. So far we don’t know if Raidah even cares one way or the other.
also saying “you reek” when what it is you’re smelling is tear gas seems in poor taste regardless.
whatever their reasons for being there, they did put themselves in danger, and the smell of tear gas indicates that things did indeed go bad, and that’s worth something.
as a white people, I admittedly can’t really fault the substance of Raidah’s point here, or get mad at her for it. it’s just true. But you’re also entirely right in your own point. I’ve been saying, increasingly loudly and despairingly for the last 6-7 years of the worldwide lurch to the authoritarian right, “they’re winning because they hate us more than they hate each other.”
With occasional and hilarious exceptions, sure, in the case of the individuals with the most concentrated forms of narcissism. But by and large – they’re mostly pragmatic enough not to waste all their ammo (and health gauges) on friendly fire.
Exactly; try to make allies, not enemies. Telling someone off for trying to do the right thing is a slap in the face, and it needs to stop.
It’s also a huge fucking distraction that’s deliberately encouraged and provoked by the opposition. Infighting is worthless to your cause and only helps your enemies.
mm agreed. as a left-leaning person, I feel increasingly like as a cohort, we’ve become self-sufficient in psy-ops. We do it to ourselves now, they don’t gotta lift a finger @ n @;;
The left has always been like this. Monty Python’s portrayal of the various Judean resistance movements in The Life of Brian was a barely exaggerated depiction of the state of leftism in the UK at the time.
Splitter!
I actually agree, that’s the most productive thing to do — but I disagree that a single moment of skepticism is punishing, or telling Joyce and Dorothy off.
Like, she’s already walked away. She expressed skepticism of their motives, then corrected Dorothy that she’s not cynical about protests, she’s cynical about white freshmen — not even white people as a whole! — and then she walked away.
This level of “pushback”, allies need to be strong enough to withstand.
I don’t think anyone is obliged to stand for any level of uncalled for disrespect, especially due to immutable characteristics.
Oh, I disagree that being a white college freshman is an immutable characteristic, heh.
And hey, here again is that different definition of “respect”. Joyce and Dorothy are entitled to respect inasmuch as they shouldn’t have their rights infringed, etc, but they’re not entitled to respect in the sense of having their motivations go unquestioned, or entirely spared discomfort throughout their lives.
Raidah is obviously speaking, from experience, about a type of performative white allyship, and she barely even said anything negative about it before walking away. This doesn’t rise to the level of mistreatment or bullying.
They’re entitled to respect of not having their motivations questioned by nearly a perfect stranger actually. Also being white is immutable. Being a freshman is technically changeable but only by dropping out of yknow…matriculating. The end result is “you, as you are. Are not enough” and that’s really shitty to say to people you barely know about a situation you’re barely privvy to and I think respect SHOULD include not antagonizing people unprovoked.
I disagree. I think Raidah clearly meant white freshman as shorthand for ignorant young liberals who might or might not mean well but do tend to make every political cause they / we show up for kind of about us. And that’s very, very mutable!
It’s also not really unprovoked, Joyce “stole” her boyfriend three months ago and she’s been nursing a grudge ever since. It’s not like Joyce ever apologized to her or has made any effort at making amends, either. It would be actively silly of Joyce to expect Raidah not to be snippy.
Also let’s get the order of events straight here:
“Wow, you two reek.” Not friendly, exactly, but given they smell like chemicals, probably not personally offensive?
“We were at the protest!” A protest against the previous comment. Now, we can’t know what the tone of voice was, but I think “defensive” is probably a fair guess, even if it wasn’t defensive on a personal level.
(Joyce might not even have been feeling defensive about the smell, so much as about running into Raidah, right after Sal caught her and Dorothy a little entangled, while the two of them were worrying about Becky/Joe/Walky’s reactions to the news they intend to break.)
“Uh-huh.” Raidah hears Joyce’s tone, takes in the pair of them, remembers how the last time she spoke to Dorothy, Dorothy wanted to be president, and surmises: “So, did it make you feel better about yourselves?” Because she thinks Dorothy might have been looking for such an opportunity, and she thinks Joyce, recently recovered MAGA-type who tried to steal her boyfriend, might have also been, too. “Did you get the attention you wanted?”
Dorothy clearly already feels very called-out. Dorothy was probably already feeling defensive just at the sight of Raidah, given their last interaction. Dorothy tesponds with an awkward deflection: “I’m surprised you have such a… cynical view of protests.”
Now, this is a passive-aggressive. Whether Dorothy actually means it to be or not, it’s basically an accusation, which the comment section has been more than happy to echo. Assuming Raidah not only didn’t go to the protest at all (even though there were tents there, so we can guess it lasted more than the like 30 minutes we saw on-panel), and furthermore that Raidah must not care about genocide.
Raidah meets Dorothy’s challenge with a disinterested correction: “I’m not cynical about protests. I’m cynical about white freshmen,” said as she strides past them.
Like. Aside from my previous comments about Raidah just not liking Joyce, which I stand by, is this really Raidah just firing off insults for no reason? Or is she responding pretty reasonably to what she’s hearing from these two?
Is it not fair to think that Joyce, who just went to her first-ever protest, expected her response to Raidah’s first comment to… make Raidah feel bad for saying they stink? That Joyce might even have expected praise for their bravery?
Other folks have pointed out that ignorant white allies at protests have a history of escalating things, so smelling like tear gas could easily mean that Joyce and Dorothy had done just that — and, like, Dorothy very well could have, with her impotent little last-stand on a tiny hill clutching a sign that wasn’t even hers. She very well could have antagonized the police presence and gotten other protesters, browner protesters, hurt.
Even if I think Dorothy’s attempted deflection was more an awkward attempt at changing the subject than an intentional attack on Raidah’s politics — is it really that strange for Raidah to receive it as an attack?
(Derek pointed it out, to be more specific, but I think I also saw the point raised by other people.)
The idea that your age, or race makes you a better person is disgusting. So what if they’re white? Does that mean they shouldn’t try to help, or is them helping just abusing their privilege? So what if they’re freshmen? People can help at any, and every age. Does them being young somehow mean their support is fake? If you supported protests since middle school does becoming a freshmen suddenly make it fake?
Fuck you Raidah, but I don’t want you to die; I hope you live a sad, miserable, pathetic life that you continue to believe is everyone else’s fault. So that when you finally pass away you do so bitter, alone, and depressed.
Raidah is 100% right to be pissed at performative activism. Dorothy may care but she decided to protest because of her bisexual fleeing not because she cared about genocide in Bulmeria. She even said she didn’t like protests as a reality, just the concept of them.
So she shouldn’t be encouraging them to keep supporting protests, or do more research, or do so for the right reasons? If they’re not doing it for the right reasons then encourage them to think about the right reasons, or just do better. Just telling them off helps no one.
Despite the current situation, I haven’t forgotten that she hurt Dorothy…and now with that comment.
Yes, it’s too soon to see her suffer. We had a brief moment of delight when she witnessed Sarah and Tony.
I can see it: once she graduates, she’ll do so without honors, without a boyfriend, without friends, and without any job offers.
That would suck because she wants to be a civil rights attorney doesn’t she? Isn’t it something we should hope she succeeds at?
The Raidah we know is certainly not someone I would trust with any civil rights cases involving the civil rights of autistic people or anyone with an intelctual imparment. Honestly, I’d rather Sarah go into that field. Her I would trust to fight for her clients and not talk down to them in a patronizing fashion and assume she knows better than them what they want, need, and deserve.
Abilist toxic mean girl bullies don’t seem like a good fit for civil rights attorneys.
She’d fight for Autism Speaks, not autistic folks, basically.
Given that Raidah seems literally ENTIRELY motivated by personal gain, success, and status, no. No I do not want her to become a civil rights attorney.
Raidah has never said she wants to be a civil rights lawyer.
Closest thing I can find is her talking about Jacob’s brother over turning an anti-trans law and asking if you can imagine living up to that. Which refers back to an earlier strip where she says living up to Jacob’s brother is what Jacob wants. So yeah all we know is that she’s studying law not what feild of law she wants to specialize in.
And she was clearly playing up Harrison to manipulate Jacob. It’s clear she wants the status and money of a lawyer. Less clear what field of law she’s looking at.
Wouldn’t be at all surprised if she gets in touch with Asher’s granddad and becomes a mob lawyer.
heyyy I’m gonna politely ask you to look up “white saviour syndrome” and then get back to me about why them being white does matter even if they had the best intentions (they didn’t, their feelings towards the protest were neutral)
like I’m sure you’re aware the USA is no stranger to mass protests since the election of certain pathetic reality TV show judge, but specially race relations protests. and you know what’s a common pattern that has emerged? white protesters making it all about themselves, escalating unnecessarily and posting fucking photos and videos of the event on instagram that later gets other protesters (often the people of colour) arrested or killed
good intentions are not enough to not cause harm through ignorance and someone who has a target on her back because she is both brown and Muslim like Raidah has extremely good reason to be wary of white people who don’t know what the fuck they are doing
I don’t have an argument against that. I still think Raidah shouldn’t be hostile, but I did not realize it was that bad, and I’m stunned I didn’t know about it sooner. Thank you.
First off, serious props for reading and apologizing. This is just context.
Every part of what Joyce and Dorothy did re: the protest was horribly irresponsible and ignorant, and was called out as such at the time by every person they spoke to at the protest. Asma, Jocelyne, Amazi-Girl.
And like- yeah, it’s just a series of dumb mistakes. Silly stuff. There’s hardly any reason to expect or want consequences worse than social embarrassment and I’m not making any kind of out of universe ethical judgements. These characters making these mistakes is a fun story for me, being a white US citizen who doesn’t have skin in the game this arc is riffing on and who doesn’t go into cold sweats with memories of what the cops do when they know nobody’s coming to bail you out.
Nonetheless, the common thread between me, you, and the characters is we don’t have to be serious about this because we’re not forced to by real world violence. So.
Red Forman said it best: “What a bongo-a-roony-doony!”
Ugh…Raidah
ITT: People upset with brown woman for doubting the sincerity of white women.
Day ending in y
Where. Name them. Receipts. Now.
Several other commenters already! Feels unnecessary to name specific people. There’ll be more soon anyway.
The way it’s phrased reads like an accusation that Raidah being brown is the motivator for disliking her consistently shitty behavior toward others. What I’m asking for is even one person who’s actually annoyed with her because she’s brown and being impolite to the white girls. If they’re here, I wanna shit-talk ’em too, instead of casting a wide net over people who don’t seem to fit the bill.
It’s asinine to think that people must be outwardly and explicitly unambiguously racist for race to play a role in how someone is perceived. Whether those people realize it or not, what they are doing objectively is criticizing a POC woman for how she chooses to respond to a white woman (Dorothy) who explicitly used this protest as some sort of panacea for her own identity crisis.
For me at least, the characters’ races are incidental and not the point of the criticism. I don’t give a shit what color the antagonistic character is or what color the antagonized characters are, in this situation. Raidah is a petty antagonistic character, that’s her only role, and I’m annoyed by the petty antagonistic character being petty and antagonistic. Treating all criticism like it’s inherently racially motivated doesn’t make sense.
On the other hand when a character has consistantly been a horrible person it’s rather odd for people to assume that the reason posters are uoset with her is related at all to her skin color. People are upset with Raidah not because she’s a brown woman being mean to two white girls. They’re upset because she is consistantly not a bongo but a whole fucking conga line.
Look. I can’t speak for everyone who hates Raidah, but the reason the only living characters who fill me with more rage than she does are Carol, Mary, and Linda (in aproximatly that order) is that she has done nothing to indicate she’s changed in the slightest from one of her earliest strips titled Challenged (title included in case I fucked up the link)
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/05-saturdays-all-right-for-slighting/challenged/
Other characters have said and done shitty things. Most of them have also grown and changed. There is no evidence that she has. The only times we see her are when she says things that are likely true but does so in unnessisarily cruel ways or when her and her friend circle are engaged in high school level toxic mean girl bullshit that involves trying to use Jennifer to climb the rungs of the social ladder.
She’s Mike but worse because at least Mike got a punchline sometimes and seemed to on some level care about his friend group to the extent someone like him is capable of caring. Raidah on the other hand seems to see her friends as resources to be used and discarded when they stop being useful. Or at least when they become a bigger problem for her image than their parents are useful to her.
She doesn’t even have the potential to be a good villain like Carol or Linda. She’s just a hate sink like Mary. Are there posters who hate her because of her skin color or religion? Probably. But it seems like some posters have decided that’s the most likely reason for anyone to post negitively about her when she’s given everyone so many legitimate reasons to never want her on their screens again. I’d love to see more Asma and any other Muslim characters Willis wants to introduce but if I never saw Raidah again unless it’s because Dina gets to beat the shit out of her I’d be really happy.
For some of us it’s less the most likely reason people hate her and more the most plausible reason some people are acting like this is some kind of supernova-level burn of great evil that’s destroying all of politics with moral purity.
And like, also, it’s been two entire houry-doos and some of the shit people have said about Raidah has alreadybeen so fucking hateful it’s gone through the report and delete queue.
I think that’s hard to prove. It’s almost certainly not conscious, for the folks where it’s happening. But it sure does seem like, on aggregate, people are harsher with Raidah than with similar levels of snark from white female characters.
Also in this particular instance, folks are definitely calling her mild criticism of Joyce and Dorothy racist, which is of course silly.
Eh, maybe I’m being too sensitive then. I’m probably more intense about Rachel than Raidah, because at least Raidah has typically had more time to let us understand where she’s coming from, and at least Joyce has given her a reason to dislike her in particular.
But also yeah, if you’re calling this racism on Raidah’s part, unlearn that behavior. It’s not.
It’s okay, at least I think so. Comment section’s been a real mess for like a full month if not longer, we’re all getting frayed tempers.
Raidah is also often written in an unlikable* way! I don’t think anyone needs to feel guilty for not liking her. I just also think the way folks are reacting to her right now is… sus, heh.
* note that unlikable characters can still have fans, it doesn’t quite mean literally impossible to like — on the contrary, unlikable characters are often fan favorites. I just mean Raidah hasn’t been given a ton of traditionally admirable traits — she has moments, but mostly she’s a Mean Girl antagonist:
Calling her critisim of Dorothy and Joyce racism is bullshit. So is calling what she regularly dishes out “snark”.
I googled to double-check, but there’s nothing about the word snark that implies it has to be friendly? Crotchety, snappish, snide, sarcastic, impertinent, irreverent — those are all words I found in Merriam-Webster, trying to explain the term.
So no, I don’t think it’s a bullshit descriptor, though I was all set to apologize for grabbing the wrong word when I was aiming for pithy.
Of course it’s racist. She’s literally criticizing them for their race, (and also their age, which they can’t control either.)
…where to even begin?
No. She isn’t criticizing them for their race. Heck, she’s barely criticizing them at all. She asked if they feel better about themselves and got the attention they wanted from being at the protest, then when Dorothy tries to deflect by suggesting Raidah is being cynical about protests, Raidah clarifies that she’s not cynical about protests, she’s cynical about performative, ignorant “allies”.
Which is what her comment meant. As anyone with any experience with the type of person she’s talking about knew instantly. No, she didn’t need to use those other words instead of the words she chose, and it frankly does white people like me no good at all to be coddled to that degree. It is absolutely a privilege of whiteness that lets us ignorantly get away with that behavior, and that same privilege makes us less likely to examine our own behavior if we hear those reassuring words, “SOME white people”. I guarantee, the kindness extended by the word “some” causes a lot of us to immediately stop listening.
Because we’ve internalized the idea that, for example, “racism” is something only monsters do, and we know we’re not monsters! So we assume we can’t be racist, and we don’t look at our own behavior to actually make sure, and we don’t change or grow as people… but we do get progressively more sensitive about being described as “white people”, even neutrally.
How dare you call me white, I’m just a person. I’m just a default human. What does being white have to do with unconscious biases? What does being white have to do with ignorance or performative allyship to people of color? Just specify that you’re talking about bad people instead of white people, so that I can stop listening, because I know I’m not a bad person.
That seems like more than enough for a first comment!
You’re out here putting in work today, and it’s good to see.
Heh, thanks Nymph. Literally the least I can do.
She can doubt all she wants and she has every good reason to do so.
But you don’t punish them for showing up, and you don’t punish them for moving towards your side. Even if you think they’re not really sincere about it, you don’t do that unless your intent is to drive them away. That’s just plain how to lose.
And its this constancy of this reaction (and to be clear: from white leftists to white liberals looking left very specifically) that convinced me that the American left (particularly the white American left) is absolutely in love with pure, beautiful failure, and they have got to get over it.
Raidah being cynically impolite isn’t really “punishing” them though. And the point of doing the right thing in activism is that it is done regardless of whether the people you’ve dedicated to helping feel happy about you.
She’s not being cynically impolite, she’s being actively aggressive in shutting down, and belittling them because they said they were at the protest. Their not asking for praise, or expecting anything; they explained why they smelled, and Raidah took it as an opportunity to belittle their efforts. That’s not impolite.
Raidah isn’t belittling them though, she’s being cynically suspect about their motivations, which she has the right to be, especially when she correct in this instance.
She is absolutely belittling them. Absolutely doing so, from a position of assuming they were there on purpose, when they really kinda weren’t. (They went there to warn Joyce’s sister about dad.)
Sure, she’s using questions to do it, but those purely rhetorical questions are absolutely belittling insults, assertions that they were there solely to feel better about themselves and to get attention.
Maybe there’s a way to deliver those questions which does not drip with contempt, but that’s how I would read them. Like Dorothy and Joyce here, I’d keep my mouth shut – but there’s no way in hell that’s not a belittling attack, and contemptuous as hell on top of it.
She’s being contemptuous sure, but for her to be belittling, her cynical assessing comment would have to be wrong, which in this case its not.
I don’t draw a line between contemptuousness and belittling, seeing it as in and of itself belittling. If you do, then… okay. Certainly not my experience, but okay.
Her accusation is not really right tho’. And more importantly, she doesn’t know or believe any of what we do; she thinks they were there intentionally for the protest. Given that as her basis of knowledge, whatever “rightness” is in her accusation is coincidental, and I don’t think that counts. It’s still belittling in addition to the belittling of contempt.
(And even if you include what we know, I mean… depending upon how you read Dorothy’s – what I read as self-destructiveness peaking, she’s still wrong.
Frankly, I was kind of confused by what she was doing here. But what I took from it wasn’t some kind of a desire to feel better about herself or get attention, but a desire to finish herself off. Not out and out suicide by cop, but to get kind of personally destroyed, if that makes any sense.
Joyce, on the other hand, was just there to warn her sister, and then later, to stop Dorothy from completely imploding. (and this isn’t the point, but this doesn’t bode the best for their relationship, but it’s salvageable. this is why as much as I am on Team Sickos, I really wanted them getting together at the end, rather than now.)
I mean Dorothy at the very least considers her comment correct, and while it certainly wasn’t only factor motivating Dorothy’s actions at the end of the protest, Dorothy needing to feel better about herself still was a factor regardless.
That’s not being impolite. Impolite would be, “ugh, well, ffs go take a shower, you stink.” What she does here is attack their characters in a way that absolutely does discourage followup.
Ironically in this case, she’s wrong for the wrong reasons, but she doesn’t know that. Her dialogue says she was assuming they were there for the intended purpose of the protest, and she attacks their motives and intent as they stand there reeking of tear gas.
This isn’t about feeling happy about them. This is about not driving borderline people away from your own side. And don’t give me any shit about “they aren’t worthwhile if they aren’t willing to take the abuse,” because 1) this is a numbers game and it’s numbers and turnout that count, so driving “insincere” people away is intensely stupid if you want to win, and frankly, 2) that’s literally just an abusive anyway. I mean, it’s classic couples abuse, and it doesn’t stop being abusive because it’s in the context of a political movement.
If Raidah being justifiably cynical of the motives of white women makes them lose their desire to do the right thing then they never had it in the first place. POC should not have to encourage white people to stand on the right side of issues.
As I said, she can be cynical of the motives of white women all she wants to, and she has cause. But you DON’T go and personally attack people who are showing up on your side. Even if they aren’t pure enough. NOT IF YOU WANT TO WIN.
The reality, whether you like it or not – and I speak as someone who has been fighting these battles for decades – is that a lot of your allies start out weak. AT BEST. A lot of the time they aren’t even actually for you, they’re more against the other side. AND THEN AS THEY WORK WITH YOU THEY ACTUALLY MOVE TO YOUR SIDE, IF YOU DON’T ATTACK THEM LIKE THIS.
Sure. It’d be nice if this didn’t matter. If they’d stay anyway. But that’s not how humans work.
So sure, go ahead, drive them off before they can learn more and maybe become more sincerely on your side. I’m sure that’ll help the cause tremendously. But ask yourself:
Do you want A) a perfectly pure and tiny cadre that always loses or B) to bring people over step at a time, watch some of them become more sincere and attached, and maybe win?
Because this – course A – is absolutely not how you win.
Absolute love affair with failure, holy shit.
Raidah’s is a jerk and her comment is harsh, but it does not qualify as “being a personal attack” especially when her comment is spot-on. Raidah’s comment may not be the most 100% tactically smart thing to do, but oppressed people aren’t obligated to always be “on” and doing the most efficient and politically tactical behavior.
I talked about this some above already (look for “July 25, 2025 at 12:46 am”) so look up there if you want.
But other than that:
Speaking as a member of an oppressed class who has received enough physical violence as a result that I have to be careful how I protest these days, your comment about “oppressed people can’t always be ‘on’ and doing the most efficient and politically tactical behaviour” is correct.
But there are times you really gotta make the effort, and two semi-friends coming back stinking of tear gas from a protest that just got beat down by the cops is very definitely one of those times.
Dorothy and Joyce are not even remotely friendly with Raidah, and she in particular has every reason to loathe Joyce. Where is “semi-friends” coming from?
I think it’s just that they’re well-meaning liberals.
Which is true of what WE know of them, but not really true of what Raidah knows of them.
again, note that I said your comment is correct.
I’m highlighting that twice here because these are the kinds of discussions where it’s easy to misread words
but also because I screwed up the formatting some lol
which makes it harder to read
oof
I agree that this is one of the times where it would be good to make the effort, I just don’t think Raidah’s failure to do so in this instance makes her worthy of chastisement.
Maybe not to you, but somewhere up there I said I’m pretty sure I’d’ve kept my mouth shut, just like Joyce and Dorothy did, for all the obvious reasons. It’s still a jackass thing to say, but I’d’ve let it go.
And had this been one of the times when I’ve been in Raidah’s position, I’m pretty sure I would’ve done better, and I know in the past that I have. Because we have to.
Speaking as one of those privileged white people: comments like Raidah’s don’t make me less politically engaged, but they do sometimes make me decide to go and be politically engaged somewhere else.
People are not actually ever going to be always polite and kind and helpful and educational in random driveby conversations they have with people they know as “that jackass who tried to steal my boyfriend and some other lady who apparently forgot the United States bombs people when designing her entire life” and creating a huge blowup because someone was… correct??? about what happened??? is absolutely the sort of thing someone should apply powder to the chafing about.
Like yes she is being rude but she’s also right, being right is why it’s rude, why the hell is this a big deal?
She’s right but she’s coincidentally right. It would be like someone assuming I like watermelon. I do. It’s delicious. But the reason you’re assuming that can still be wrong even if you’re right.
Nobody’s gonna majorly harass or assault them for being insincere. One snippy comment isn’t really the same thing.
I never said or even implied any of the things you just said.
I’m not really denying that being called out can be unpleasant, either. It kinda just seems like we weigh things up differently?
It takes way less energy to be mean than it does to say nothing at all. Raidah chose mean.
Way more energy* fuck.
I mean, Raidah has a tendency to guide conversations just to put people down. She isn’t 100% wrong, but her own track record as a person makes me doubt her sincerity in general
Yeah, it’s not the “admitting they’re white to their faces” thing that’s annoying, that’s just a surface-level observation. It’s the instant and immediate hateful attitude toward people she just happened to see. I can at least understand Joyce being a target since she wrecked Raidah and Jacob’s relationship on purpose (even though it’s been months, get the fuck over it girl), but all Dorothy ever did was stand there and she still catches shit.
Yeah seriously. Always with the white people. This page actually had me agreeing with Raidah for once.
Ah, Raidah. Unpleasant as always.
Fuck off, Raidah.
Did you win the argument with the straw man, Raidah? Should we clap?
The scarecrow is simultaneously a dangerous opponent and easily defeated.
I don’t like Raidah but she too often says true things with surgical precision to be ignored. Hey, no one liked Cassandra either.
Wasn’t that because of a curse instead if her personality?
For a second there, I thought you were talking about Raidah and almost started an archive crawl to find where I missed that arc. ^_^
Cassandra was a princess of Troy. Troy had a major temple of Apollo there (which is why he was on their side during the war). Cassandra, as princess of Troy, served in the temple of Apollo. Apollo wanted to fuck Cassandra. In an attempt to woo her, he gave her the gift of prophecy. Cassandra turned Apollo down, which incensed the most bro of the gods. So the shiny bastard then changed his blessing into a curse. Cassandra could still see the future but now no one would believe her.
Cassandra then got a prophecy that her little brother Paris, then an infant, would grow up to cause the destruction of the entire city. But the curse meant that when she tried to warn everyone, no one would listen. Desperate, she stole the infant Paris from his crib and tried to throw him off the city walls. Unfortunately for everyone, she failed. This also caused everyone to regard her as insane.
Real Terminator II Sarah Connor vibes there. (I know that movie was basically a retelling of that story.)
She’s interested in the truth only when it’s a weapon. She absolutely cloaked Jennifer’s entrance into her social circle in the language of protecting her from an escaped abusive relationship IIRC
First of all, Jennifer and Ruth’s relationship was absolutely abusive. Raidah wasn’t calling it abusive; it was abusive and Raidah accurately describes it as such.
Second, truth is a knife that can only cut lies. Free yourself from lies and the truth can never hurt you. Like in that one TNG episode or Inuyasha.
Finally, Raidah is a scheming climber and that’s a valid reason to not like her. But she’s not a liar.
I mean, isn’t that kind of what Dorothy did before the big kiss? They may have originally gone in with the intent of making sure Jocelyne was okay, but her running back in to wave that sign around instead of leaving before things escalated sure looked like she was making it about herself.
Like, sure, Raidah is still pretty awful for making assumptions like that, but with Dorothy I can’t help but feel we have a stopped clocked situation.
I mean Dorothy flat out says Raidah is right.
Yes, it is exactly what Dorothy did and Dorothy is acknowledging it right there. Still an uncalled for assumption for Raidah to make due to her not being at the protest, but she was actually right and it does give Dorothy something to think about.
The best you can say about Dorothy is that one of the things she was trying to make herself feel better was from supporting the status quo for so long. A lot of people seem to be of the impression her big action was solely due to Joyce, but that is not right. She was moved by the protest and by the unfairness of the draconian response, that is also a big motivating factor for her to adhere to it.
Still, the way she did it was mostly boneheaded, impulsive and against the protest organization itself. It ultimately did very little other than assuage her own guilt. So Raidah is not entirely wrong and it is good on Dorothy to recognize that.
I’m not sure how moved Dorothy actually was, it seemed she was saying the right things but the subtext was she didn’t want to let go of Joyce so threw herself into the cause to forget but stopped caring the moment she got what she really wanted.
It was both. To not think it is both it is to assume she was lying through her teeth for the whole “your anger is a tool for kindness” speech. And that, I think, is an incredibly unfair reading of the character and a very uncharitable reading of the story.
As for “stopped caring the moment she got what she really wanted”, that requires you to assume the story ends here and the Dorothy political awakening plotline won’t be explored further.
Not lying to Joyce but to herself. She didn’t want to admit she just didn’t want to let go of Joyce’s hand and go back to real life so she first stalled by talking about at the exit then when they were out of talking points she clings to Joyce’s anger as a tool of kindness as a connection to Joyce before committing a metaphorical cry for help.
Oh cool I see we’re at the fragile white allies portion of the evening.
Dorothy and Joyce in the last panel are correct folks, it’s okay that Raidah was like. Mildly confrontational before walking away. I promise you as a fellow white person, we will overcome (lol) the mild discomfort of having our identities pointed out.
I swear if people start with the reverse racism bullshit.
It is very sad how many of us white folks can’t even handle just being accurately described as white.
People are so quick to reflexively filing shit at Raidah because she’s an antagonist that they do it even when she’s pretty much right. It was the same when she punctured Dorothy’s presidential aspirations. She was literally right, just nasty about it. Like, Raidah is a brown Muslim woman, she has every right to be skeptical of white liberal woman making the protest about themselves – which is what Dorothy did btw!
Sadly, Radiah is right and those two are so caught up in not getting caught they don’t seem to even realize how that looks regarding the protest.
I REALLY want to like Raidah, she has such a cool design and I’m admittedly sometimes very shallow. Like ever since Willis started drawing her eyebrows thicker, I have been extra taken with her.
That said, I don’t think it’s actually that hard to imagine things from her perspective, and I’d love to see Dana show up to either prove to Sarah that Raidah was right about going home being more dangerous for her than continuing to spiral, or to prove Sarah right that she was in much worse shape than Raidah thought.
Of course, by this point their tension is more than just that one incident, and I tend to think Joyce “ruining” things with Jacob* is a bigger thorn in Raidah’s side by now and that she really is first and foremost trying to ruin Joyce’s life by destroying her friend group, with damage to Sarah being more of a bonus.
* I put ruining in quotes because what Harrison said about Joyce and Jacob would still be a factor even if Joyce had never stuck her nose in and tried to sabotage things — Jacob did try to find a girlfriend he thought his big brother would approve of, and then he apparently never found anything about her noteworthy enough to share with Harrison, even while telling him all about Joyce. The best possible read there is that Jacob was just nervous that Harrison might still not like Raidah, I think, and I don’t think Raidah would actually be glad that his opinion was THAT much of a factor…
Plus, it takes two to tango. While it’s fair to be angry at the “other woman”, too, nothing would have happened between Jacob and Joyce if Joyce’s feelings had been truly one-sided.
Like all in all, I think Jacob and Raidah were a little doomed.
But I do also understand why she’d want revenge. I think it’s human.
(As for Raidah’s off-the-cuff comment to Dorothy — while I think it’s ultimately unproductive to be like, “no one who wants the job of president can possibly be a good choice for the position,” I think some readers… well, some of the folks who are mad at Raidah for saying what she said to Dorothy just because it hurt Dorothy’s feelings and protagonist-centered morality is very much a thing, but I wouldn’t be surprised if some of the folks who are mad at her for saying it are also (understandably) frustrated both by the idea of Dorothy giving up on her dreams**, and it’s easy to blame Raidah’s comment for both that and Dorothy’s whole spin-out here that ultimately resulted in her and Joyce kissing, so why not blame Raidah for all of the things we aren’t enjoying in the comic right now? Heh. Can’t fault the efficiency.
Meanwhile, the truth is that Raidah is a lot like Yoko Ono. She wasn’t actually the cause of any of this, she just happened to be there when things were already falling apart.)
ahahahaaaaa maybe I just shouldn’t comment after like 6pm my time, the ADHD med really helps me not to ramble quite so much,,,
Oh my god okay fixing typos and sentences that got lost—
“well, some of the folks who are mad at Raidah for saying what she said to Dorothy are mad just because it hurt Dorothy’s feelings and because protagonist-centered morality is very much a thing”
and also
“but I wouldn’t be surprised if some of the folks who are mad at her for saying it are also (understandably) just frustrated by the idea of Dorothy giving up on her dreams**, and it’s easy to blame Raidah’s comment for both that and Dorothy’s whole spin-out here that ultimately resulted in her and Joyce kissing”
which of course never got its footnote.
** I know I’ve seen it pointed out, for example, that we do already have a lot of stories wherein ambitious women who put their career before the idea of love get “corrected” by the narrative and wind up giving up on their ambitions completely, or at least reorienting them to be something less lofty.
This is as frustrating as it is because we rarely see stories where the same thing happens to a man. The closest I think we reliably come is where a man gives up, say, making partner at a law firm to spend more time with his wife and kid, but oh, don’t worry, he’s going to start his own practice, so his “downgrade” is to be his own boss and run his own law firm. Which is actually just as ambitious in its own way. Hm. Not really the same message!
It’s still wrong to blame this on Raidah. And I don’t think it’s where Willis was trying to steer Dorothy’s character. I don’t think she was ever being “punished” for being unrealistic in her goals. I think it’s more that Willis’s own politics shifted, like many of us (white people), becoming more politically aware of, say, the state of the police, and no longer finding Dorothy’s ambition “lofty and admirable”, but instead kind of “tone deaf”.
hey you’re spittin’ facts, they’re just long facts is all. and that’s fine. some facts are long :3
Heh, thank you!
I’m’a quibble with you on one point – I think (unlike Yoko Ono) it’s pretty valid to think Raidah is at least misguided if not wrong in terms of her demonstrated engagement with people in terms of their perceived worth to her long-term plans as opposed to as, y’know, people.
Honestly? I don’t think we’ve seen enough of Raidah to know that she sees everyone like that, instead of just being shrewd in her choice of associates in college, where she’s pointed out the importance of networking — something Sarah also valued back when she finally gave in to Dana’s attempts to include her in things.
I think Sarah was always a bit of a curmudgeon but became more of one because Liz kept “stealing” her boyfriends and because things with Dana’s group went so sour — but I also think what we saw of Raidah in that flashback? Seemed perfectly likable, and that Dana crashing out and then getting sent home soured her. “Losing” Jacob to Joyce soured her further. And NOW she’s someone who actively schemes and pretends to like her friends…
…but I don’t think that was necessarily always the case, and I still don’t think it’s necessarily her only mode of operation.
She was a little condescending in how she talked about Jacob, but it’s hard to say how much of that was overcompensating for being jealous and hating being jealous — something she certainly wanted to think she was above! And something I think a lot of us would like to think we, too, were above.
We’ve seen a lot of Raidah being a Mean Girl about and with Jennifer and Joyce, and I’m certainly not trying to argue she’s a sweet person, haha. Just that I don’t think she’s a 2D villain, where all her traits have to be negative all the time in every situation.
Also her long-term plans include being a civil rights lawyer! Something a lot of readers have definitely forgotten, since there’s a lot of “as IF Raidah cares about genocide” takes today, heh.
Can you link to where she said she wants to be a civil rights lawyer? As I said above all I can find is her on a date with Jacob saying that his brother is a lot to live up to and a strip earlier than that telling her friends that Jacob wants to live up to him. Nothing about her wanting to be a civil rights lawyer.
So, I checked, and here are the breadcrumbs, as I see them:
— We know her father is a lawyer. She may or may not be one of the people in Dana’s old friend group whose dad specifically runs a law firm (Dana said “two, maybe three” of them, not counting her — and the group is only five people — but Raidah could be the exception). [1]
— We know Raidah herself intends to be a lawyer, she’s said it many times — but there are indications that, at the very least, she’s not planning on being a nonconfrontational corporate lawyer, because one of the times she said it, she also said she and Jacob were going to wind up with long lists of people who want to punch them. [2]
— Yes, she talked about Jacob’s brother, who we know is a civil rights lawyer, and she’s talked about the pressure he feels to live up to him, but she’s also said she, herself, is something Jacob needs to “live up to the standards of his family”, and she mentioned Joyce’s major when she said it. Considering that Raidah is a Muslim, and we know Jacob is an Episcopalian (and not devoutly so), I think it’s reasonable to assume that Raidah thinks they’ll approve of her because of her career aspirations. And a family that’s proud of a son who won a landmark case for civil rights is… unlikely to be as impressed by a young woman who just wants to be a lawyer. [3]
And Harrison even says that he expected Jacob to have hooked up with another “stuffy, by-the-numbers lawyer like [him]”, further adding to the idea that Raidah’s lawyerly aspirations are similar to Harrison’s path. [4]
— Finally, there’s just the specific way she criticized Dorothy’s aspiration to be president, by describing it as a job that more or less requires you to commit war crimes. [5]
I will fully admit to reading into that! To thinking that it, plus almost* everything else she’s said, indicated that she wasn’t planning on being a prosecutor, or using a career in law to maneuver into politics. At the very least, she must plan to be a defense attorney, right?
[1] https://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/05-saturdays-all-right-for-slighting/networking/ plus also https://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/06-strange-beerfellows/relax/
[2] https://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/03-the-butterflies-fly-away/feigned/
[3] https://www.dumbingofage.com/2017/comic/book-8/01-face-the-strange/proud/
[4] https://www.dumbingofage.com/2019/comic/book-10/01-birthday-pursuit/aslongas/
[5] https://www.dumbingofage.com/2023/comic/book-13/03-joementum/goals-2/
OH RIGHT, my asterisk.
There’s also a beat in the conversation Raidah has with Joyce, after she asks her what her major is, and Joyce says elementary education, and Raidah comments that it’s a noble profession (with a low salary), and that “we can’t all lead glamorous lives”.
I’m not sure if this is meant to indicate Raidah expects to make a lot more than 50k per year? Indiana would pay her about twice that much as an average civil rights lawyer (107k), which of course isn’t poverty wages, but as the cost of living continues to rise… heh. “Lawyer” isn’t automatically a super high-paying career: graduating from a prestigious law school and getting a job at a prestigious law firm is your best bet for money, and civil rights law specifically doesn’t pay all that much, especially when you factor in the cost of student loans.
We don’t know enough about Raidah’s plans to know whether she expects a “glamorous life”, and also it’s been seven years since she made that comment! It might be that when Willis checked, the cost of living to salary ratio was a lot more favorable for whoever state they thought Raidah would want to live and work in (because it’s totally possible she doesn’t intend to stay in Indiana).
But. Yeah. Like I said, ALMOST everything she’s said about her career aspirations lines up with being a “white hat” attorney of some sort: civil rights, environmental law, immigration law, or just defense attorney in general. She’s mostly said things that suggest a noble career aspiration, which she’ll achieve via social climbing and networking, and being a jerk to the protagonists in the meantime doesn’t really detract from that.
Let’s be honest, compared to a public school teacher, a civil rights lawyer does make glamorous wages.
For sure, it IS literally twice the average salary.
I also meant to slip in there that I know I only learned this bit about vastly different levels of Lawyer Salary from Legal Eagle and Crazy Ex-Girlfriend, long after that strip, so if Willis had just assumed she’d be making Glamorous Money, I wouldn’t blame them.
Raidah is an asshole, but she does make good points occasionally, like in this strip, and the one where she criticized Dorothy about her desire to become president.
Yeah, even the “Heartbreaking: The biggest asshole you know just made an excellent point” post I was contemplating seemed to be a bit much in context.
Yeah. Raidah is being unpleasant and is overall a shitty person, but she is not entirely wrong here and it is better to just accept the L.
Like, the way Raidah is most wrong is that her words are directed equally to Joyce who, frankly, actually did nothing wrong (regarding the protest). And even that is not worth quibbling about because her cynicism regarding the motivation of a white girl who never shown any interest in the topic is is entirely understandable.
Is she right, though? Is she?
Well, according to both the characters involved and the author, yes. Who else do we need to ask?
Well, from the memes I’ve seen online, we should ask Jesus before we assume all parties consented to anything.
Not entirely, no. But right enough for it not being worth arguing against.
Even if she was wrong (which she isn’t), her cynicism is completely justified. The vast majority of white people are AWFUL about this stuff. Even a lot of allies are self-centered and oversensitive. Expecting POC to validate their feelings even when they’re talking over them and taking up excess space. It’s sad to see.
When a white person receives this sorta comment, they should grin and bear it and then move on. We need to DEMONSTRATE that we’re good people who’ll actually help. Our word means nothing in a world filled with empty platitudes and brownie point farming.
(Oops. I forgot I could use HTML italics for a sec.
Basically.
Hurt feelings are a thing that happens sometimes and can’t be controlled, but what you do next is always on you. In this case, we should take a breath, and examine the comment to see if maybe the reason we’re feeling defensive is that we’re afraid their comment accurately describes our behavior.
If, on reflection, it doesn’t — congrats to us, that comment wasn’t specifically about us: so we can move on with our lives, while also being mindful of both our own behavior in the future and our fellow white people’s behavior in similar situations.
Sucks, but a racist, say, will always give more credence to an opinion coming from “their side”, and whenever it’s safe for us to do so (including spoon safety), we should use that to our advantage to help call them out, or do what we can to help deprogram them. Deradicalize the radicalized.
(Spoon safety: referring here to energy and resources in kind of a general sense. Plenty other types of marginalization that can make it less safe to speak up, and of course you still gotta put on your metaphorical oxygen mask before you help other passengers with theirs…)
Bleh. Ramble ramble. Hopefully my points are still coming through.
They definitely have. And I agree with them. Mostly. Every right-winger and bigot I’ve argued with didn’t listen to a word I said. I always came away from those conversations with the feeling that I wasted my time. And that’s the best case scenario.
Honestly, it’s rare for a SINGLE conversation to have an impact, especially in the moment! But you might have had more of an impact than you realize. Seeds get planted sometimes that don’t bloom until later.
She’s not wrong. In this case, the attention was each other’s. Dorothy kind of said it herself, “You don’t know what I need“
I don’t think it really counts when you have no idea what you’re doing in the moment.
Raidah considers the public’s. Joyce considers her friends’.
Making sense is immaterial in the world of metaphors.
Even before that, Joyce and Dorothy went to the protest because Hank saw a picture of Jocelyne at the protest and they wanted to warn her about that. They didn’t go there because they cared about what the protest is about.
Nah, she’s completely wrong.
Panel 3 Dorothy looks like a meerkat to me.
This is my very important contribution to this comment section.
Who are you again? Wait, I dont care
Oooooh, is Raidah just being a bongo or has she already seen pictures online?
I predict that people are gonna be completely normal about this encounter and not say any weird self reporting shit. I believe in us.
Wait a minute: so Raidah knows about the kiss.
So, everyone already knows, about it 😨
She doesn’t show any sign that she does tho. It’s just her opinion of them going to the protest without any other context.
I.e: Raidah being a bong just because.
“bongo”…
No she is now a bing. People are gonna smoke out of her, seens appropriate.
What is she, Moray?
I swear, EVERY page you manage at least one comment that makes me spray milk out my nose. I don’t know how you do it. I don’t even have any milk in the house.
Okay good, the milk teleporter is working.
I think it was just a guess, based on what she knows about them. I suspect her enmity for Joyce is more personal and deeper than that one barb she launched at Dorothy, and that, as such, she’s probably kept closer tabs on her. I wouldn’t be surprised if she knows Joyce is dating Joe, in which case, knowing about the kiss would’ve looked different.
That said: I did pretty much just use variants of the word “assume” three times, so.
Yeah, I don’t think she knows anything. She starts with “you reek”, which she might not even have recognized as tear gas smell. They tell her they were at the protest and she makes some jabs based on what she knows about them and general cynicism about white freshmen.
Mind you, if there IS a social media explosion centering the kiss at the expense of the messaging of the protest, Raidah will be very justified in circling back to give these two a massive side-eye heh.
As a white “Freshman” I am hurt but can’t really argue
I mean
I hate to say it, but
Raidah kinda accurately called them out. They did kinda… Make it about themselves at the end there
A hesitant point and Sicko sticker for Raidah
Nah, she’s entirely wrong.
Nah, she’s right
For the entirely wrong reasons, mind, hence it being a hesitant point, but still right
Insert ‘worst person you know made a good point’ meme here
She really doesn’t. They went to the protest for selfless reasons. Incredibly stupid, ill-thought-out reasons that had little to do with the protest itself, but still.
The point being Raidah doesn’t know that and just assumed the worst. Because she is the worst.
I think a simple “Fuck you” would be the proper and warranted response, Joyce.
Raidah might technically be making a valid point about performative activism or white complicity, but that doesn’t matter when her intent is clearly to hurt people. She wasn’t at the protest. She doesn’t care about the cause. She’s just using big-picture issues as a weapon to make others feel small. That’s not righteous it’s petty. And that’s why, even if her words sound insightful, they’re hollow. Because at the end of the day, Raidah is still an asshole
EXACTLY
We don’t know for a fact that Raidah wasn’t at the protest. Like, yeah, we don’t know for a fact that she was, either, but there were plenty of silhouetted protesters in the background and any one of them could have been her.
Let’s be real. Raidah wasn’t at the protest she does not look like she was at the protest. If she had been, she would’ve led with that instead of throwing smug little barbs about attention. This isn’t ambiguity. It’s character consistency. She didn’t go, and now she’s using a serious issue to make herself feel superior. Stop defending assholes just because they happen to say something technically correct.
Eh. It’s been at least an hour since the tear gas, and she could’ve been there earlier in the day, or even in the week — folks had tents set up, after all. I agree that she probably wasn’t present when the tear gas happened, or else she would recognize the smell, but I bet Willis didn’t actually mean to imply she hadn’t been at the protest at all.
Again Radiah is an asshole.I’m pretty sure she didn’t go to the protest, and even if she did, she’s clearly using this moment to hurt people, not to speak truth to power. Yeah, her point might technically be correct, but it’s poisoned by the intent. Same thing happened when she told Dorothy she couldn’t be complicit in becoming president because she’d have to commit war crimes. Was that a fair critique of American politics? Sure. But coming from Raidah, it wasn’t about principle, it was about making Dorothy feel small. It’s like when Tucker Carlson criticized Orange Julius Caesar over Epstein. Even if he had a point, it rang hollow because it came from Tucker Carlson, and he’s an asshole. That’s Raidah in a nutshell, technically right, morally empty. Insert Futurama meme.
I don’t think Raidah is, like, a Captain Planet villain. I think she can be an asshole, especially to our protagonists, one of whom her ex-boyfriend cheated on her with, and still care about protests against genocide. That’s not a very high bar to clear.
If Raidah’s -toe- had been at the protest, she would have been tagged.
If Raidah’s toe had been on screen at the part of the protest we saw, she would have been tagged.
Oops you weren’t responding to me lol. Carry on.
Good, we wouldn’t want people protesting ethnic cleansing for the wrong reasons. Way more important to focus on moral purity than stopping state sponsored murder.
You must be this ethically pure before you can protest, otherwise just sit on your hands and do nothing.
And then get badgered for sitting in your hands and doing nothing.
Y’all, they were there for five minutes for unrelated reasons and then actively refused to follow the instructions of the people who organized the protest i.e. knew what they were doing, in order to solve some random unrelated personal shit of theirs.
At some point you’re just projecting random unrelated internet politics arguments onto this.
Alright.
Radiah knows literally none of that and is just giving them shit for being 1: White and 2: at the protest.
As she should! White people could stand to get more shit for being white and/or weirdos at protests they don’t care about <3
Raidah also knows them as people.
Does she really know Dorothy in specific? She knows Dotty wanted to be the President and talked shit to her about that, but I don’t recall any other time they’ve interacted.
I don’t actively remember, but I also don’t remember how she knew that about Dorothy. Or that they’re both freshmen. Or a lot of things that she actively seems to know the few times she’s run into them.
Which kinda makes me think her sources may be partially or entirely offscreen, but also, my memory can be shit, so hey.
New headcanon: Raidah has wiretapped every bedroom in the building and every night she spends a couple of hours skimming through the audio for info on the residents.
They were at lunch together with Jacob!
She also has likely pumped Jennifer for info about all of Sarah and Joyce’s friends.
She really doesn’t know them at all..
For my own part, I’ll say she knows enough about Joyce to at least dislike her and not want to be around her for any reason. The little homewrecker can’t really say much about that.
Anti-genocide is a big enough tent that even random bystanders that are there accidentally can fit under it. To say that they don’t fit is to say they’re either pro-genocide, or ambivalent about it, both of which are massive insults. If you have a subject (genocide) you want people to have a certain opinion (it is bad) about, then implicitely insulting them isn’t going to help your case. So welcome anyone with open arms, regardless of their reasons for being there.
it’s never a bad thing to want people to be more informed about the issue they’re protesting about (especially if they’re risking getting injured by the police to do it) and I think it’s entirely valid to be frustrated with people who join causes because they’re trendy rather than because they have actual strong feelings about the movement
None of which Radiah is doing, I very much doubt Radiah of all people gives a hoot if they got injured or not.
Wanting people to be more informed and feeling frustrated are both valid, but excluding people from the anti-genocide umbrella for that reason is vile. You’re basically calling less perfect protestors enemies of decency.
I think any insults directed at Raidah for her assumptions about Dorothy are undermined by Dorothy’s strong cop energy.
I think any insults directed at Raidah for her assumptions about Dorothy are undermined by her being right about Dorothy.
To be fair, that was out of bad emotional coping skills, not performative concern.
It kind of was performative concern though, she stopped caring about the protest outcome the moment she got Joyce’s attention.
Her entire Thing is performative concern. Wanting to be the president to “fix” things with no idea how any of it worked, her spastic antics with Joyce’s autism, the way she turned a party into a mike eulogy, ect.
Until she had her break down, she’s been THE caricature of “Good Intention-ed but Woefully Dense Middle Class White Girl” and is hopefully going to get smacked by the Truck-kun of Consequences.
Please don’t use an ableist term to describe Dorothy being ableist. Like it’s genuinely almost funny you managed to do that but it also really sucks
Legit apologies, her *dumbass* antics. I blanked on that one.
Gonna make the prediction now that The Kiss was caught on camera and went (to some extent) viral, and that Raidah’s dialogue in panel 2 is 100% throwing shade on them for that specifically.
Interesting idea!
Yeah if Joyce’s dad managed to catch Jocelyne already theres probably already photos of the kiss too
Radiahs dialouge could definitely be interpreted that way, “thanks /s/ for hijacking a very serious and important issue, now your all the media talks about.”
It wouldn’t surprise me if that’s the case. There definitely could already be pictures of Joyce and Dorothy kissing at the protest online, and Raidah may have seen them.
I honestly think Raidah would have been a lot pettier than throwing some light shade at them for being white and attention-seeking if the girl who’s Sarah’s bestie/roomie, who also caused Jacob to break up with her, was caught kissing someone at the protest. Doubly so if she knows Joyce is technically currently in another relationship already, and Raidah has been shown on-screen to care about who’s dating who when it’s relevant to her social agendas and petty revenge-seeking (such as Sarah/Tony), and Joyce hasn’t been quiet about dating Joe. I definitely don’t think Raidah would be this casual about it without some kind of ominous hint that she’s already started enacting a plan to hasten the ruin of their respective social lives.
kinda rich from someone who only see other people as a ladder for something.
A person assumes that the rest of the world *must* think and feel like they do, because the way they think and feel seems like the most normal, natural thing in the world.
It’s why abusers often criticize others of doing what they are, in that moment doing. Or why cheaters start thinking that their partner is cheating. Every other explanation seems contrived.
On a slightly lighter note, is there anything that Raidah HASN’T been cynical about? She’s arguably even more cynical than Billie/Jennifer, because at least the latter still genuinely fell for Ruth.
Nothing I can think of. Pretty much all she has are negative remarks, ladder climbing, and surface-level observations. I don’t think she’s capable of joy.
She was happy with her boyfriend until Sarah broke them up.
She was content to have him as a connection to his better-connected and more influential brother, sure. He was certainly convenient for her.
I mean, she turned him down for fooling around because she wanted him to study so that he could follow in his brother’s career footsteps, so… Is that happiness? Seems like more ladder climbing.
Huh, Raidah showed up…Ooh, does this mean were gonna see more happy Sarah? It’s either Raidah being manipulative or things not going her way by my memory.
If there are more good times for Sarah…then yes, Raidah is not going to have a good time.
So white students should not participate in protests on account of being white huh.
Oh no, white student can participate, they’ll only be at a “lower level” than the non-white students because… reasons i guess.
Apparently not.
How funny would it be if Joe or Walky rebounds with Raidah? I think it would actually be good for her and kind of bring them all full circle.
Raidah has shown an interest in Walky…
Raidah has shown an interest in the fact that Walky’s mother used to date the dean. She seems to have as much interest in Walky as she does Jennifer. Maybe less although I don’t know if that’s really possible.
Oh she 100% views him as a manchild, but he’s a not-ugly manchild who’s mom could provide her a connection.
Wow! What a hate sink! She’s a good lesson that there’s some people who just won’t be satisfied, and you shouldn’t try satisfying everyone you meet.
Its funny cuz Raidah’s technically correct, the BEST kind of correct.
You can still be offended by insults that’re objectively true. I’m not really a big fan of being called “A black guy” disparagingly.
Sup, Yoto. How it going? Fellow black guy here. Just saying there’s inherently a huge difference between being called “a black guy” disparagingly over what’s happened here.
Just clarifying that. Like there’s reasons we’d feel bad about that Joyce and Dorothy will never have to experience.
Not trying to start a whole racism debate. Just saying I get it but we might have different life experiences from he two white girls.
We’re only talking about taking offense here. You don’t have to be comfortable with anyone disparaging you even if it’s true. I’m also a Cis Het man but I don’t like being made to feel bad about it.
Ah. I got ya. I misunderstood what you were getting at in my first response.
Aye, its fine for Dorothy and Joyce to be somewhat offended by Raidah’s dismissive comment lumping them in with all the unreliable white freshman that barge into activist spaces to feel better about themselves and then flee when consequences start being threatened.
But Dorothy’s still right that the correct thing to do here is just take it on the chin. Neither Dorothy or Joyce really care about Raidah’s opinion of them, there’s hardly an argument they could make that would persuade her without actual evidence, and trying would just be more evidence that they were present for the feels, not to do the right thing.
If the punch doesn’t really hurt you and responding to it would only make things worse… then why bother?
And while the details of their motivations weren’t really right, they also weren’t actually there because of real commitment to the cause.
Raidah’s a jerk, but she’s not really wrong in her cynicism about young white protesters.
I’d say she’s not wrong about THESE particular two young white protesters. I think it’s problematic in a general sense to paint groups of people with a broad brush. Joyce and Dorothy uniquely can’t make a comeback BECAUSE they’re guilty of not taking the cause seriously, but that doesn’t mean that none of the white freshmen there were just being performative.
-doesn’t mean *all* of the white freshmen-
Bungled it in the last sentence.
Not all, but it’s not a bad assumption. And she does know both Joyce and Dorothy a little, so she’s got a little more than just “white freshmen” to go on.
I do suspect she would have made the same assumption about Jocelyne if she’d come back with them and would have been wrong there.
It just occurred to me, does Raidah even know Joyce is not a fundie anymore? Like, they barely interacted post time skip. Their most significant interaction was back when Joyce was actively trying (and kinda succeeding) to steal Jacob. And back then, Joyce was still the kind of person to jump back upon learning someone was a Muslim.
So, like, Raidah has extra motivation to be skeptical of anything Joyce does.
To be slightly fair, Joyce is jumping back not cos Raidah is a Muslim but because she was Jacob’s gf at the time and Joyce was actively trying to seduce him. Other than that though, you’re totally right. I was just thinking about that.
The whiny white people in the comments are forgetting about things like context again. Both cultural context and individual character context in this case.
I am pretty sure it is because she is a muslim, actually. On the 3rd and 4th panels Joyce jumped back a little bit because Raidah appeared. That is because she was Jacob’s gf. But in the last panel she is even further away and even more panicked and that is after Raidah invited Joyce to a mosque. At very minimum, it does seem like a reaction to the mosque mention from Raidah’s perspective, which is very in line which would be expected of Joyce (or, like, most WASPs in the USA).
At the time she was also already shell shocked by Jacob”s Episcopal church (because it looks Catholic) so being even more flustered with trying to deal with a mosque is pretty much guaranteed.
I think she already knew Raidah is Muslim, I don’t think he religion in of itself is what made her recoil, it’s Raidah putting her on the spot with the invite that did it
Oh yeah, I remember now. This is basically what I assumed as well. That she was being an autistic goober who hates even small change, let alone big change.
I think it was both! She definitely reacted with guilty panic to Jacob’s girlfriend showing up right when she was putting a hand on his arm (see the motion blur as she yanks her hand back), but also the alt text in particular puts a fine point on it also being about Raidah being Muslim (“if you want to convert, freak out and run away”).
Also, Raidah has every reason to THINK it was Islamophobia even if it wasn’t.
Ohh, right. I forgot about the alt text. Yeah, Joyce was deffo raised by extremist christians…
I don’t think we know. She definitely described Joyce as a bubblebrained MAGA-ass girl when Jacob told her about the cheating, and Jacob basically said that wasn’t fair of her, but not in a way that objected to any specific parts of it, so Raidah might well think he thought “bubblebrained” was going too far.
Since then… who knows? I suspect she’s been keeping at least some tabs on Joyce through Jennifer, but I was thinking more in terms of Raidah proooobably knowing Joyce and Joe are dating, rather than about Joyce’s shifting politics. :|a
Wait, how does Raidah know about the extent of Dorothy and Joyce’s involvement in the protest? They went in last minute. Have photos of their kiss circulated social media already?
I’m…. reading this strip as her not knowing anything more than them smelling like tear gas and them telling her they were at the protest.
… but yes, photos of their kiss are definitely circulating social media already.
She’s making assumptions. Those assumptions being in the same county as the truth, is a coincidence.
she doesn’t, but she took an educated guess and was right
It’s possible there are pictures of them kissing at the protest online already. Or maybe Raidah is just guessing based on the fact that they told her they were at the protest.
Its just raidah being an asshole to some white freshman for daring to be at a protest she didn’t think they belong at. She makes it pretty clear in the strip.
I appreciate Raidah and Rachel, in a society with obligatory forgiveness, because they hold personal grudges.
Judging by how hard Raidah decimated Dorothy’s whole worldview the last time they talked, I’m guessing this must be the start of Dorothy’s “pivot to the alt-right” arc.
(Before I get a billion hate comments, I’m being sarcastic.)
Ten minutes until Dorothy starts threatening to bomb an “abortion clinic”.
no no no, let raidah cook.
Has Raidah ever done a single positive, friendly, or selfless thing in the entire comic’s run? I genuinely don’t think she has to my memory.
This is that “Roz attacks Joyce for deconstructing” shit from Leslie’s class all over again. Raidah may be right but it’s not about *what’s* right to her, it’s about *being* right. It’s about being better than everyone else around her, always.
She called out her friend when she called Dina a slur (albeit after being condescending to Dina herself). She also did seem to like Jacob.
But, yeah, Raidah is kind of an awful person. I used to think she was at least nice to her friends, but the way she treated Jennifer after she dumped Asher makes me question that. But even if she is shitty, it doesn’t mean she is in the wrong 100% of the time about everything. (she is not Mary)
The key difference there being that Jennifer isn’t one of Raidah’s friends, though Jennifer herself didn’t know that.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2022/comic/book-12/04-dont-stop-billie-ving/pretended/
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2022/comic/book-12/05-this-was-halloween/realestate/
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2019/comic/book-10/01-birthday-pursuit/bubblebrained/
Oh yeah can’t forget this one, the last time we’d seen Raidah before she suddenly showed up again, seemingly BFFs with Jennifer, after the time skip.
The thing is, if she’s treating Jennifer like that I’ve got to wonder if she’s doing the same thing to the rest of them behind their backs. They all seem to have at least one connection she keeps them around for.
Someone like Raidah doesn’t have what you or I would consider “friends.” She’s got a network. People who think she’s their friend and will do her a favor here or there. She values people specifically for their potential benefit and connections, and she uses the language of people who actually give a damn in order to appear better, more caring, more supportive; than others.
It did raise the question, but so far we haven’t seen her talk similarly behind Carl’s back, and we don’t know what happened with Char and Chan. Chan, we last saw being concerned for Raidah about Joyce stealing Jacob; Chan, in the flashback where Raidah “welcomed” Jennifer into the fold, asking Jennifer if she’d considered losing weight.
What we do know is that Asher didn’t seem “in” on the plan wrt Jennifer, and indeed seems to have genuinely liked Jennifer as a person, very much unlike Raidah or Carl.
But the thing is, if someone Raidah have been hanging out for what is implied to be months is not one of her friends, then who is? Do we know? Like, we would assume Carl, Cher and Dana, but if we only saw her being friendly with Jeniffer we would thought the same. It could be the camera just happen to never show Raidah being shitty towards Calr and Cher, it is hard to tell.
That is why I said her treatment of Jeniffer made me question her friendships. We can’t really know, so it is hard to count as one of Raidah’s good sides.
But she’s doing a sting operation. She is specifically faking friendship with Jennifer in order to hurt Joyce (and Sarah).
It might be the case that she’s faking all her relationships, but we don’t really have evidence for that.
Hurting Joyce and Sarah is a side benefit. Or killing two birds with one stone at least. I was under the impression that while she did see that potential she’d wanted to bring Jennifer into her fold to have an in with the wealthy Billingsworth family. Mostly taken on the emphasis of who her parents are when she was introduced to her friends.
I don’t think that’s actually what that was, but like, at THAT point I’m even deeper into my cork board covered in red string, so agree to disagree there 🙂
Being a clout chaser and a gold digger has been like, literally her *entire* personality up to this point (aside from the rivalry with Sarah).
Walky: Connected to the dean. She brings it up multiple times. (https://www.dumbingofage.com/2022/comic/book-12/04-dont-stop-billie-ving/poutine/) Nearly from the start.
Asher: Has his own “connections”.
Jacob: Lawyer who she wanted to get in with. Also bonus points for trashing Joyce primarily for being basic and low status.
She does have Char and Chan, her friend group we saw her with for a while who seemed to be just her friends without social connections. Curiously, both of whom have *entirely* vanished from the comic since the time skip spare one flashback to halloween with only Char being introduced to Jennifer.
My strong suspicion is that she still hangs out with them, but they’re not smooth enough to be in on the con with Jennifer.
We never saw either of them with Jacob either – possibly since we’ve barely seen them at all outside of flashbacks.
I also think she was just pretending to care about Walky’s connections because siphoning him off from Joyce’s friend group is yet more of the aforementioned sting operation.
Like, yes, this is how she talked about Jennifer and Walky, people she didn’t like and deliberately tried to shave off of Joyce’s friend group to hurt her, but is it how she talked about Carl or Chan or Char or Dana? Not to our knowledge. Is she after Asher’s mob connections, or does she have some other reason for wanting Jennifer to get him back? Hard to say for sure.
Just putting two and two together right now about the Asher thing…did Raidah want Asher in the friend group BECAUSE she knows about his mob connections?
Anyway yeah, her behavior here doesn’t make her any less right, but being right doesn’t make her motives any less god-tier shitty as always.
She knows he has connections with very powerful, very effective businessmen, at least. I somehow doubt she’s aware of the mob thing, mostly because trying to get in good with organized crime is an extremely stupid thing.
Sal brought it up, somewhat obliquely, in front of Raidah, though it’s not entirely clear from Jennifer’s response whether she actually knew about the mob boss thing or if he’d given her some softer version of the story.
Replying to myself: she was kind to Sarah in the flashback, right when school started and before Dana’s struggles. Wonder if something else happened that made her so mercenary
This strip made me smile. Raidah is wrong most times but she actually nailed this one completely unknowingly lol. Everyone say thank you Raidah! (this is not a request for replies saying shes being a big meanie because she said a true thing in a not nice way)
I love Dorothy and Joyce but Raidah is right and she should say it. 🙂
Nope, she’s completely wrong and she should shut up.
That’s so very white of you. 🙂
can somebody explain dorothy’s chin comment please? i don’t get it.
“Taking it on the chin” is an expression that means “accepting an insult and letting it go”. It’s a boxing term.
Examples include: not this comment section.
so the kiss is basically a viral video isnt it?
everyone and their mother saw it
This actually would explain Raidah being upset way fucking more than “I hate white people being performative”.
The only thing Raidah hates more than perofrmative emotion is real emotion.
I doubt it. She doesn’t mention the protest until after Joyce does and doesn’t give any specifics. It does just seem to be cynicism about white freshmen protesters.
Raidah’s a jerk, but she’s not completely wrong in this case. We know Joyce and Dorothy didn’t go to the protest because they genuinely cared about the cause all the other people who were there were protesting about. They went to find Jocelyne and warn her that Hank saw a picture of her at the protest.
“Raidah’s a jerk, but she’s not completely wrong” sums up most of Raidah’s interactions excellently.
She does have a habit of being at least partially factually correct in a lot of cases.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day. While both went to the protest, Joyce’s motivation was a bit more understanding than Dorothy’s, being all concerned for her sister, who was there entirely for political reasons. But Dorothy just wanted to lash out for the sake of lashing out, and the fact that she was REWARDED for her actions by Joyce suddenly falling for her and Amazi-Girl coming in to save them both from getting arrested…
I was told there were four types of people in this world- those who do good for the right reasons, those who do ill for the right reasons, those who do good for the wrong reasons, and those who do ill for the wrong reasons. The second category is the most dangerous, but the third category is the most annoying, and Dorothy, in my mind, is firmly in the third category now.
“Suddenly”
To be completely accurate Dorothy initially went so Joyce didn’t have to go alone. She did end up having a wobble and acting like a selfish idiot but she didn’t go the protest with the intent of doing any of that.
I also think Dorothy was not just lashing out, seeking attention, being self-destructive but also felt moved by the realisation the system does in fact suck and hurt people. Which she knew but it felt like it smacked her in the face. Not saying Dorothy is a good person or perfect, not at all. I just thinks it’s a bit unfair to simplify her actions and motives to just lashing out.
Yes! We cannot help who we are or how we are raised. What we begin as ignorant about. What matters is our reaction to those realities when they confront us. The facts when they present themselves, do we believe them? Do we NOT believe them?
It’s when it turns into willful ignorance that it becomes a huge problem and a truly negative personality trait.
Raidah fulfills a good narrative purpose and highlights that there is a difference between shitty attitudes and shitty beliefs. You can be a nasty or sickening person for either reason, or both, or neither.
Joyce and Dorothy have a choice now to tell their S.O.s or not, and if they don’t they are seriously deserving what comes after. Whatever it is.
Raidah, have the day you deserve. Narratively it’s funny that she’s slightly correct. But just UNNECESSARILY rude about it. Jeez.
i had forgotten Joyce stole her Boyfriend. For Sarah.
I don’t see it as that. Sure, on paper, Dorothy picking up the sign and protesting was a largely symbolic thing she was doing for herself. At the same time…I don’t think it was about getting NOTICED for it. It was about breaking her own codes about behaving herself, doing things the “right way”, and rejecting the system that she used to believe in.
In other words, Dorothy did it for herself, but for reasons of self-growth rather than self-satisfaction. One may not look different from the other to outsiders but I do think it’s an important distinction.
Okay, at time of posting, yesterday’s comic has 766 comments. Setting that as the breakpoint for the spread, who has the over and who has the under for today’s comic? 😀
(psst, its a comic with Raidah talking, you should take the over)
On track to go over before the end of the day!
Well…she’s not completely wrong. She usually isn’t. It’s what makes her effective in her role.
So the way Raidah asks if Joyce and Dorothy got the attention they wanted makes me think that someone posted a picture of them kissing on social media already. Someone got a picture of Jocelyne that Joyce’s dad saw. Mary was (smugly) right there and could have gotten a picture. Maybe not in all the chaos and tear gas. Yeah Raidah is antagonistic and unkind, but that seems a little more specific thing to jab at Dorothy and Joyce right now. I know someone thought this might have already happened and I’m not on Patreon right now so if this happens tomorrow (I think there are a few more strips before they get back to their phones) I’m not trying to do spoilers.
(also there are way too many comments to respond to in all of this mess and I miss message boards. Racism is a system. Raidah could be being bigoted or prejudiced towards Joyce and Dorothy for being white, but she is not being racist. Also in the USA people of Middle Eastern descent are legally white for census reasons, but that doesn’t necessarily mean individuals view themselves or others that way.)
It feels like some people really need Raidah to like, have bad politics, or not actually care, or whatever, which is just strange to me. You’re already justified in not liking her! She’s an asshole! I think it’s a much more interesting and real portrayal if she’s harsh, abrasive and mean about things she actually believes instead of “well she just wants to hurt them”.
Sometimes people you hate believe in the same things you do! It’s incredibly common, actually!
And I’m not gonna fault her for being nasty with these two, one of which she has a personal grudge against (and probably still remembers as the funniest girl?), and the other being someone so politically naive she hadn’t thought about what a president does until Raidah made a pointed comment.
Of course I’m a little biased as a Raidah enjoyer, as well as a protest storyline hater. Hi fellow Raidah enjoyers
unrelatedly, I was looking at old strips and found Joyce saying “Dorothy, it’s not stealing a boyfriend if we’re /meant/ to be together!” which, lol. lmao
very much related again but of course I meant fundie girl. That’s on my autocorrect. I don’t think Joyce is particularly funny, just like a regular amount.
i’m making the conscious choice to bow out from commenting today for my own sake (esp. after i got a lil tmi in the patreon comments tbh) but as a fellow Raidah enthusiast and comrade in arms I wanted to let you know that i support and appreciate your message 🫡
I don’t enjoy Raidah, she isn’t a type of mean I find fun, but you’re still right
Yeah.
This is one of MANY reasons I don’t like the rise of “Narcissistic Abuse” as a concept, or the way NPD has functionally taken the place of APD / “psychopath” for pseudo scientific way of saying someone’s pure evil. 🙄
(There is no “abuser” mental illness or personality disorder. Abusers are usually empathetic (it helps them get into the minds of their victims better, so as to more effectively gaslight them!) — a deep understanding of other people’s feelings doesn’t always lead to compassion, nor does not being able to understand other people’s feelings always lead to indifference.) (Also, hyperempathy isn’t a superpower, you’re not literally feeling other people’s feelings. Hyperempathy just means being very sensitive to what you think other people are feeling, and like other forms of hyper vigilance, it can be completely off-base.)
Anyway, Raidah isn’t a Captain Planet villain. She’s capable of having traits both positive AND negative. She can be an asshole to our protagonists and still oppose genocide, actually! It’s not hard!
That is a different use of the term “hyperempathy” than I have usually seen. When I’ve seen the word used it’s usually been used to refer to some neurodivergent people having an excess of empathy rather than a deficit to the point they sometimes feel bad for inanimate objects.
Interesting! The type I’m familiar with is a common symptom of having been abused. I see there’s also Hyper-Empathy Syndrome and Hyper-Empathy Disorder.
Frankly I should have stuck with my first impulse to just say “high empathy”.
(fwiw I’ve struggled with hyperempathy of the type I mention above)
Was this one of the retroactively added strips?
Joyce: Ow, that was accurate
Dorothy: I think we should just accept this one
Willis: it was a safe guess
Comment section: HOW THE FUCK DARE, I’m not saying Raidah is racist but IT WOULD BE COMPLETELY JUSTIFIED TO DO SO
Yeah, yeah whatever, Miss opportunistic social climber, no one cares.
She’s talking mad shit for someone who didn’t show up at the protest.
*finger guns* This.
i mean, she is also not white so she is much more of a target, and this protest actively affects something in her life which makes it more difficult and emotional to put yourself in danger for.
i dont think its as simple as “wow didnt show up for the protest? u dont get to talk buddy”
True, but if she only avoided the protest for her own safety, there’s a direct hypocrisy to her comments, because she’s giving them grief over their supposedly performative appearance. If it’s a cause you care about and only avoided protesting for your personal safety, I would imagine you’d WANT the people who don’t have to worry about that to show up on your behalf, no matter how performative their appearance was, because the alternative is silence.
Her comments were, as always, a calculated barb intended to cut down two people she dislikes in a way they won’t feel comfortable countering. That, or (as other people have mentioned) someone is circulating a picture of the kiss and THAT’S what she’s really alluding to here.
It’s not even certain that Raidah knew that a protest existed or what it was about until this moment. Or that she’s concerned about the issue.
She could be, but it’s not always great for performative idiots to join protests – especially ones like this that are likely to result in police violence. A big permitted march, sure you want everyone you can get. If you’re actually planning to face off with the cops, you want people who are committed and know what’s going to go down.
Counterpoint: If the reason you aren’t showing up at the protest is because you’re more likely to be targetted… Wouldn’t you want more white freshmen to show up? Because they’re more likely to garner sympathy and attention to the cause, and be less likely to be badly injured?
Like… If Raidah shouldn’t show up, neither should Asma, neither should ANY brown/black students, and then if you actually want a protest… you need to fill the ranks with white people. Which I guess means we can dismiss the whole thing because only white people showed up?
Knowing her she’d be counter-protesting if she could get in Carla’s good graces.
Ding ding ding. Thank you.
i like how this arc is showing each characters reaction to protest and anti-colonialism
i kinda hope Carla just doubles down and keeps excusing herself and her parents. its not a likeable thing to do but its quite realistic to ppl with rich parents, especially queer ones, esp since she wouldnt be able to keep going to uni if she opposed them. These characters are all still quite young and i think she lacks the maturity and confidence to support herself.
would it be heartbreaking to see carla fall down the fascism apologist rabbit hole? obviously, of course
would it be very very very realistic for a white trans woman to become a turbo racist in modern day? unfortunately very, yes, the rise of white girl supremacy politics is incredibly present rn. it sucks so bad but I’d believe it fully
I actually think it would be extremely fucking objectionable for one of the two trans women in the strip to become a fascist
*become MORE of a fascist. Already supporting her parents, to become anti-fascist now would be a heel turn for her
She doesn’t? Specifically when the arms deal thing come up she become extremely conflicted because she doesn’t support it but fell she can’t go against her parents because of everything they did for her.
lemme put it this way. if a human being said “I love elon musk, he gave me everything,” would they not be supporting a fascist? same thing.
Just to quibble about vocab, isn’t a “heel” a bad guy? That would make becoming anti-fascist a face turn, since anti-fash is the good side to be on.
It would be a face turn, at least it would be if she were currently a heel. Right now we have a young woman barely out from under her parents roof admitting that for reasons of self preservation and losing the only support she’s often felt she had she has intentionally avoided thinking about the consequences of actions her parents take that she has no way to actually prevent.
She could stand up to her parents and tell them she disproves but that doesn’t mean doing so will accomplish anything.
I think saying the trans woman is fascist because her parents are rich and she hasn’t actually confronted that yet is a bit over the top. She’s not actively anti-fash, but that’s not the same thing as being a fascist.
In a less pithy response, yes, it would be objectionable, that would be the point. Not all trans women, especially *white* trans women, are perfect representatives for the queer community. Trans women, as much as anyone else, are capable of being imperfect.
And when you get right down to it, more and more white trans girls are doing this. This is my community, I’m seeing it happen every day, and it breaks me every time, but certain white queers are very eager to throw people of color and other marginalized identities under the bus if it means getting an iota more respectability back for themselves.
I understand the desperate clawing like crabs in a bucket, even if it disgusts me, so seeing Carla fall down that hole when her own parents are the ones being defended would be far from an unrealistic way to progress her character. I don’t think Willis is likely to take her there, people love Carla and her realizing her actions are wrong and changing for the better is probably what this arc of hers is going to be about. But it is not wild or imaginative to see the alternative, it’s just a sad reality in today’s queer community. It’s getting more racist.
I really don’t care if it’s “realistic” or whatever. It would be incredibly bad form and a bad creative choice. We are constantly being demonized in popular discussions regarding us, why is it that the trans girl has to be the one whose character is sacrificed to make some point about racism in the LGBT community? No. Absolutely not.
i think maybe your insistence that trans women must stay perfect and presentable in all forms of media and must never show negative character flaws, even while fictional, is maybe part of the problem, but having that conversation would be like talking to a brick wall thats falling down onto me, so whatever girl you do you
Raidah’s indignation would be interesting if it weren’t covered in shit.
I’m just going to say, it’s very rude to call out someone’s body odor in that context, as Raidah is not their close associate. And yes, there is valid concern for performative white knight activism. But let’s be clear here, there is no response they could’ve given about why they “reek” that would’ve gotten a positive, supportive response from Raidah. Because that’s just not who she is. Raidah is not a good source of character growth, because she’d be rude no matter why they walked past her. Roz would be a better person to critique the motives behind white freshman protest.
I don’t think the implication is meant to be that they smell like body odor, but rather that they smell like tear gas. I’ve never smelt it but I imagine it has a thick chemical scent to it.
As someone who lives in a smoker house, trust me. Smoke will settle in scent-wise. Particularly into fabric and hair.
For a second I misread it as “Smoking meat” kind of Smoker house and thought “Delicious”, then the real meaning hit XD
God I wish, that would be the kind of smell I’d love to carry around with me.
That makes sense. It’s still rude to comment on, as a casual acquaintance. The remark is not a ‘Hey what happened’ remark but rather a ‘You’re somehow even worse than usual’ remark.
Y’all, that kiss has to be all over the place online and that’s why Raidah is (justifiably) annoyed with them. “Did you get the attention that you wanted” implies not only that it is but that it’s completely detracting from the purpose of the protest.
Plus, this is Willis’ story we’re talking about. Of course everyone is gonna know about the kiss already because of the drama it will create. The tasty, tasty drama.
Huh, I actually find Raidah more dislikable than Mary. Wow, that takes some doing because I did not think that was possible.
Mary is at least passionate and genuine about her shitty beliefs, Raidah is just a calculating opportunist.
Mary’s consistent with what she says and what she believes and what she does.
Raidah’s PERSONALITY is presented however her current mood and opinion of a person sees it as convenient to treat people.
Like, don’t discourage the behavior you want to see.
I think it’s down to why a character is disliked whether Raidah or Mary is more dislikeable.
When Mary isn’t actively spewing bigoted shit her personality can be less grating then Raidah’s. On the other hand unless we get a big reveal about shit that’s gone down with Raidah’s
minions friends Mary has actively done worse things that endangered people to a greater extent than Raidah has.Fuck. Forgot to close the tag after minions.
Well it’s not very polite to see a person and have to tell them they smell like PEPPER GAS, only phrase it like it was some sewer smell. And have to get the last word in on whatever conversation that resulted.
Lady, she is not ONLY the refuge Sarah took to by now feel like a normal non depressed person. Quit being rude about someone else scoring the dean’s son. It’s REALLY not Dotty’s fault.
Give Raidah (and trolls) the attention she deserves:
Anyone wanna speculate whether Joe, given the context of him and Becky (both through Joyce) being pretty much already in the loop about the romantic and or hanky panky tensions going on between these two, and anyone who remotely knows them can see at a glance that something explosive has happened, interpersonally, through them?
Alright anyways that established on the “who knows” topic. Joe being okay with an open relationship? Specifically, not open for Joe, open for Joyce and Dorothy specifically because what they have is absolutely unique beautiful and precious, and not to be hampered as far as personal growth is concerned?
And I wouldn’t mind hearing if anyone has more thoughts on the Becky being angsty about this news vis a vis bisexuality of the “I like THIS ONE woman in this way, I dunno about any other ladies,” variety.
Also do you think Dorothy might be uhhh, bi and demisexual, as in the physicality of the pairing matters way less than the emotional attachment level?
… I think so. Scoring VERY LOW in the ace spectrum category but idk… how you would describe that besides demi….
… I continue to be a confused ace spectrum pan man about all this nonsense drama XD but of course it’s fascinating to watch.
( I dont know why ) But I think Dorothys Trans.
Just a Vibe I’ve had for a few years.
No I dont think Dorothys Demi. She was just in denial. She likes Walkys body and was in too him early.
If anything Dorothy can lean the opposite way, she can be transactional. and prioritize her physical needs at the expense of relationships and emotions. If anything Joyce is an exception to this.
dorothy explained early on she was cautious because she could be judged as a candidate.
Yeah haha, fair, I was projecting hard last night before sleep, also trying to distance MYSELF from Raidah comments and stuff.
Transactional is not what I’d put it as but I get your point. Better word than not saying anything about it. Hmm. I’d say she’s thankfully shameless concerning sex is all. If she wants, they are available and their personality is good to her and they have chemistry, then she pounces. I dunno if I see any payment ish kind of things happening even in her head. Besides “I reward myself with this shenanigans.”
1. She has a point.
2. Still a dick move.
Is that a fair summary?
You’re not wrong Raidah, you’re just an asshole.
When Sayyid Qutb visited a US campus town in the 50s, he was appalled by the materialism, the hedonism and generally having the time of their lives of US women
I still hear echoes of Qutb when I hear Communists speak
The university system was built on people being able to act out and find themselves. That’s the Western liberal tradition in my eyes
Lighten up Raidah. Some of the LARPERs might go on to do great things, even take down that old gits Qutbs toxic tradition. Don’t let your cynicism stop seeing the good from the frolicsome
It’s funny, because coming from anyone other than Raidah, that might even have actually meant something.
Given how we already know Raidah heavily dislikes Joyce (and knows Joyce is a pretty important part of why she’s single while Sarah’s happiness and friend circle keep growing) and definitely doesn’t respect Dorothy much for wanting to be President of the USA without even having considered the responsibility it’d mean towards all the wars they’re engaged in… This is honestly about the nicest I could imagine Raidah being to the two of them short of just ignoring them on her way past them.
That said, she may be a jerk who generally cares more about her own social climb than about other people, but I do hope we get to see more of her outside of that lone trait. I think there’s a lot of potential in seeing more of why she wants all that status and power and why she wants to go into law other than the money and respect. Automatic disdain towards white freshmen whom she flatly assumes went to a protest which they had no genuine commitment to – which is correct, even – is a fun glimpse towards that, I think. I actually wish we’d get to see more of her thoughts on the protest, even if that’s not what the story is intended to be about, just because I’d love that extra insight into how she thinks about issues that aren’t centered on herself.
Jerk Raidah continues to be jerk.
so on top of everything else, Raidah is also a racist.
It is not possible to be racist against white people because racism implies a systemic level of oppression and prejudice which advances beyond personal animus.
“It is not possible to be racist against white people ”
Funny how I only ever see this put by other racists. It doesnt imply any systemic bull at all. You cant just change what racism means so you can insult white people guilt free. Then again you don’t seem like the type to reflect on such a thing or see insulting white people as bad so…
If a brown woman wants to be a little nasty about white liberals I think I’ll find a way to survive.
“Funny how I only ever see this put by other racists.”
That’s kind of a self-fullfilling prophecy, seeing as you
consider people as racist for making that point?
Also, it’s not ‘changing what racism means’, it’s understanding racism.
The observed phenomenon of racism objectively referred to a systemic discrimination based on the perceived category of “race”, which was created by white people to discriminate others. The very concept of both human “races” in general and “white people” as a racial category were born from a white-led effort to establish white people as a both unified and superior category. Therefore, no racism against white people is possible, since no other racial category is assigned the social authority to do so.
Calling out white priviledge is not racism by any stretch.
You two don’t deserve your Lucy avatars. Get her out of here, she’s better than this!
Ldritch is completely correct the hell you talking about?
In non-academic vulgate, racism refers to being unfairly biased against or rude to someone because of their race.
And that is itself a twisting of the original usage of racism to make into a tool for white supremacy. This usage only exists as part of the post-Civil Rights era backlash.
Can you clarify what you mean?
We blame a lot of things on the British including racism in my country but I personally feel that’s just deflection. We are quite capable of racism all on our own
To say it’s a “twisting” of the original usage, is to imply that the word having more than one meaning was done intentionally, malevolently, rather than just the general changing of language that happens naturally over time. The original usage isn’t “purer” or “more correct” than what it has become; rather, the way that the word is used by a majority of the speaking population, *becomes* correct usage, if not changed.
If the argument for why “racism” cannot be used to describe personal negative, prejudiced feelings against members of a particular race because the origin of the word comes from describing a system, then we need to also stop using the word “Transphobic,” because that is a portmandeau of blending “transgender” and “phobia.” The subject of phobias became extremely popular in the 90s, with TV shows, books, magazines, etc. talking about different phobias and describing all of the things that people could feel extremely irrationally afraid of, and “transphobic” was originally coined as an insult, to compare people who were prejudiced against transgendered people to people who screamed and cried and ran away from, say, a spider, or a cat, or the number thirteen.
I’m A-OK using “transphobic” to describe prejudice against trans people, because even though it doesn’t really describe it in the same way that a word like “transmisia” does, and came from an insult that trivializes people with a mental disorder (that being, phobias), it is what our common usage is today.
For that same reason, I’m OK using racism to describe a personal prejudice against someone ‘s race and members of that race, as long as it doesn’t lose the systemic root. In fact, I believe that the word has grown stronger by looping in personal accountability and prejudices, instead of only talking about the systemic nature.
… and I think that we can agree here, that whether or not you want to call what Raidah is “racism,” she IS being, admittedly, prejudiced against two people SPECIFICALLY because of their age and their race. If you want to say “No, that’s not racism, because racism means X,” that’s fine, but it’s then a leap to say that this is actually fine because the word means something else. If I take the word “murder” and ascribe it to something else, then “Intentionally killing an innocent person” does not suddenly become morally OK.
This is well said.
In linguistics, prescriptivism is the norm. Linguists talk not about what words “should” mean, but how people use them in real life. I’m reasonably confident that a fairly substantial majority of folks, regardless of their background, would define racism as “being a dick to someone because of their race”.
There has to be a *very* compelling reason to override the prescriptivist in me and say “no, you’re using that word wrong” and none of the arguments in favor of defining racism solely as “power+prejudice” have met that bar for me.
I don’t think there is as much intention as you imply behind this gradual shift from the academic term of racism to the colloquial term we use today, especially not from the people actually using it. Like any academic term that has entered general discourse, the precise meaning is changed. People use “capitalism” very vaguely, for instance, with either negative or positive connotations. Saying “it isn’t possible to be racist against white people” is a bit like saying “actually, REAL capitalism hasn’t been tried”. It’s literally semantica., the most boring and unfruitful sort of discussion.
But it’s not a shift from an academic term unless you’re saying that any use of “racism” comes from academic use.
I’m saying that when people started using the term racism, it clearly applied to systemic prejudice and discrimination by the dominant group against an oppressed minority – or more specifically by whites against blacks. That wasn’t academic semantics, it just wouldn’t have occurred to anyone to think of black people racist for not liking or trusting whites. They had far cruder things to call them.
It’s only in the backlash to the Civil Rights movement, as I said, that the concept even became meaningful. I could be wrong about how intentional the shift in common usage is, but it is definitely tied to that backlash, not to an innocent shift out of academia. Part of the same attitude that painted Affirmative Action as racist and that now casually claims that whites (and men and Christians) are the only ones it’s socially okay to discriminate against.
The term as has been described above is an academic term. You can tell because it has a precise definition in terms of sociological concepts. I will also note that it is also not the “original” use of the term racism, apparently. It appears to have originally been synonymous with the earlier and more descriptive term “racial prejudice”, according to etymonline. https://www.etymonline.com/word/racist
>That wasn’t academic semantics, it just wouldn’t have occurred to anyone to think of black people racist for not liking or trusting whites.
I agree that the sort of “reverse racism” thing is ridiculous, but it’s also ridiculous to say that it is impossible by definition to be racist against white people, and it is indeed a change of definition from the one in established use. There is a line between not liking or trusting whites for valid reasons (such as being under their bootheel your whole life) and for invalid reasons (they’re just filthy Yakubite mongrels), and that line is better described by the conventional meaning of the term. Again this point is very much like “real capitalism hasn’t been tried”.
Racism describes a philosophical/political viewpoint/action of racial superiority/inferiority. It can be performed by anyone of any race, true, but requires a certain amount of social/political power, so in America (where this story is set), it’s nearly/functionally impossible to be effectively racist against white people, and that doesn’t include “calling out the political power structures put and held in place for centuries that elevate and protect ‘white’ people and their opinions.”
The term that more accurately fits would be “prejudice” which IS perfectly possible for minorities to show/perform in America, but of course it doesn’t have the same teeth that an accusation of racism does, so “pithy discourse” tends to ignore it.
You could also just use “Generalizing” here, but I grant that Raidah has enough ill-will behind her barb that it wasn’t being made from ignorance so “Prejudiced” fits better.
I’d include a TBF section here, but I learned the difference between these words in elementary school, so at this point it’s either intentional misuse or willful ignorance.
So while Raidah being snarky about white people is not actually racism, I really, *really* hate this argument.
I agree with every single aspect of the “racism=prejudice+power” argument except for its conclusions. I favor calling that “systemic racism” instead, while using “racism” as a broad category to refer to any negative experience a society or individual inflicts upon another person because of that person’s race.
There are two reasons for this:
The first is that power is contextual, and so often these arguments assume a US context. I, as a white man, have faced systemic discrimination in my life. This was because I was living in Japan. The first time I tried to open a bank account there, the banker’s response was “oh, we don’t open bank accounts for foreigners” and my company had to say “no, we’ve totally done it before” to get them to do it (my other example is more blatant, but takes longer to describe). What else would that be called but racism?
Saying “you can’t be racist towards white people” either comes with the implied rider of “in the United States” or is flat-out wrong.
The other reason is that I’ve studied linguistics, and so I’m generally a pretty big prescriptivist. If the majority of people use racism to mean “being a dick because of someone’s race”, and I believe that they do, then that is what the word means, regardless of how much folks don’t want it to.
Six white guys randomly roll up on a black guy minding his own business and beat his ass, solely because he is a black guy. Is this racist? If so, why? If not, why not?
Six black guys randomly roll up on a white guy minding his own business and beat his ass, solely because he is a white guy. Is this racist? If so, why? If not, why not?
To continue the pedantic argument….
Six white guys attack a black guy. The cops are called but they’re also white so they look the other way, and one even helps. They’re brought before a court, and the judge is white, and starts questioning why the black guy was there because he must have looked suspicious. The case is thrown out, the white guys face no punishment. THAT is “systemic racism.”
Six black guys beat up a white dude because he is white. The cops are called. Two of the black guys are shot on sight. The other four are dragged in front of a white judge, 3 are given life sentences with no parole, and the last is given a death sentence. That is also systemic racism, but still towards the black guys.
The discussion of why either set of men beat up someone of a different race isn’t part of the systemic racism definition.
Now, is that what most people mean when they say Racism? Does this mean that the neither group of men was being racist when they attacked someone for their skin colour? Is the concept of “systemic racism” only pulled out as the “true” definition when people want to argue that you can’t be racist to white people? Those may be more interesting questions.
whenwe energy
Deep cut racism reference, well done.
shut the fuck up cracker
It’s actually racist to get upset because someone admitted someone else was white.
So in re “why wasn’t Raidah at the protest:”
Raidah is a brown Muslim woman who is likely to be disproportionately targeted for police brutality, arrest, and, in the worst instance, death. There were snipers on those roofs. Additionally, and more selfishly, Raidah wants to be a BigLaw attorney, and getting caught up in an unpopular and now illegal encampment or worse, arrested or shot, is also likely to cost her educational and professional opportunities which she already has to work twice as hard for because she is, again, a brown Muslim woman.
These are actual calculations people have to make about this stuff, and there are ways to support the cause being protested for that don’t necessarily involve putting your body on the line at a protest she could reasonably assume would be violently shut down and she clearly believes was mostly white people trying to make themselves feel better.
All that to say, I would caution being overly judgmental about the brown Muslim girl’s position on this relative to the white girls who got off essentially consequence free (and who Raidah is pretty right about wrt making the protest about them anyway)
We don’t all have the luxury of barging out into the field to make some grand statement that is only tangentially related to the actual cause being protested, you know? There’s a reason Dorothy isn’t arguing against Raidah here.
Ya But,
I wouldnt assume Raidah even supports the protest.
I think Raidahs cynicism is also a self confession, when she supports something Good its performatively. to make herself feel superior, or to put others down. (Or social climb to power. )
If ANYTHING, I think being a Brown Muslim girl encourages her to wear a social mask.
The only virtue Ive seen in her so far is not being ruthless and not taking revenge. other than mean girl nonsense.
We have no reason to believe Raidah is opposed to the genocide. She may be ambivalent towards the protest as a specific tactic, but we don’t have any real evidence of that, her concern seems to be more about white liberals coopting it.
A lot of people seem to have this need for Raidah to have bad politics. But she doesn’t, generally. She was spot on about Dorothy’s Presidential ambitions, and she’s spot on here. She’s just nasty about it, and antagonistic to our POV characters.
Not to believe* whoops! This is why you don’t post after waking up, kids.
I feel like the bullshit she said to Dorothy about being President strongly imply that she would support protesting genocide. Or at the very least, is not pro-genocide herself, which is a case of clearing the bar where the bar is in hell. She’s also not wrong, has zero reason to be polite to Joyce ever and not much reason to be polite to her best friend, and that kiss 100% is circulating online.
(I do think what she said back then was stupid af. Not because she was wrong about presidents having to sign off on some awful things, but the extended logic that No Good Person should ever want to be president which only guarantees a permanent downward spiral)
The “permanent downward spiral” argument only holds if you take the existence of the Presidency as axiomatic. I would suspect Raidah would be sympathetic to an argument that the only moral solution to the problem is to dismantle the American State as it currently exists.
Ding ding ding
I mean, 100% of everyone I’ve met in irl who go full scorched earth on “wanting to be president makes you evil” is also absolutely not on board with “burn everything to the ground and restart” because of the mass amount of death and suffering that is sort of inherent in a revolution.
Like, CLEARLY our current tools aren’t working, but curiously everyone who spouts off talking points like that seems absolutely convinced that peaceful demonstration, something which has never once worked in the course of human history even when it was touted as a success (pushed as such by the powers that be to maintain order). Hence why I check out of political discussions really quickly because the only solution anyone ever is actually willing to discuss is one that is Not Functional to fix the problem. I’ll still do my part in it because it’s my duty, but it’s very much a situation of the kitchen being on fire and everyone keeps saying that if we finish the roast then the sprinklers will take care of the fire. You can fry it with grease, or you can dry roast it and try to stay away from the fire, but the room is burning down and you need to either grab a fire extinguisher and ruin the food or you need to leave to safety. Maybe the fire will put itself out, maybe the sprinklers will suddenly kick on and we don’t have to ruin dinner, but every day it seems increasingly unlikely.
Like, if we wanna talk about Raidah being an unreasonable bongo, I don’t believe she believes in dismantling the government. She has a lot of incentive and reason to never take that stance and never vocalize it, being in a High Risk of Retaliation group, but she probably sees such solutions as barbaric/unthinkable, which means her logic IS the guaranteed permanent downward spiral. And unless I see a character outright say their political views only support a revolution, that’s the only safe assumption to make because that view is an extreme minority.
Like, I’m not gonna be the one to ruin dinner, but if people go for the extinguisher and I can help them, I will. If everyone wants to stand around and wait for the sprinklers to kick on, I’m absolutely on team “Don’t Cook with Grease” even if I think they’re ineffectual, mostly performative idiots. What I don’t think is helpful is telling someone that wants to try to cook AND put out the fire that they’re an idiot, even if I think they haven’t thought through the logistics, because that still leaves us with two cooks who aren’t focused on putting out the fire at all.
No one’s saying Raidah will be giving lectures on the finer points of foco theory anytime soon, just that she’s likely to be more sympathetic to the perspective that the American state is structurally imperialist and in need of dismantling than a white liberal who goes around saying “i wanna be the president” without giving any substantive thought into what that actually means.
Maybe than that particular white liberal, but the majority of those generally attracted to the “burn it all down” approach tend to be young whites who at least subconsciously think they’ll have the privilege to make it through the burning down part. (At least on the left – the right wing “burn it down crowd is different.) Like Bittersweet said, she’s in a High Risk of Retaliation group, which Dorothy and Joyce aren’t.
The “burn everything to the ground and restart” not only has the problem of the “mass amount of death and suffering”, but that such revolutions do not at all reliably produce better systems afterwards. Even if they succeed.
yes. A couple of white kids not having to calculate all the repercussions is likely what she’s alluding to. From the get-to-know-you lunch she had with Joyce and Dorothy, we know Raidah puts a lot of stock in the courts, and is planning to be a civil rights lawyer. And a protest conviction would cost her that.
Dorothy, when she calculated all her decisions to become President is aspirational and charming, but Raidah calculating her decisions in order to become a civil rights lawyer is opportunistic and hypocritical? Na
I had forgotten about the specifics of the law she wants to go into. Also another point in favor of Raidah having center-left politics. Civil rights attorneys are not a famously conservative bunch.
She has never said she was planning to go into civil rights law. She talked up Jacob’s brother Harrison, who was part of a big trans-rights case, but that can be seen as much as manipulating Jacob and maybe trying to provoke an anti-trans tirade from the fundie girl making eyes at him as it was anything she herself was focused on.
Asma was at the protest, Raidah wasn’t
Raidah is probably more worried about her future at Kirkland and Ellis
Asma could be line for Deportation
Different people will make different calculations about this sort of thing. Asma was putting her body on the line for the cause, which is admirable, but it’s wrong to expect every Muslim person to make the same sacrifice.
It’s less that she wasn’t at the protest (as you point out, that’s a personal choice to make) but the rest of her presence throughout the comic that make people doubt both her politics and actual commitment to anything that isn’t purely careerist.
Sure, but every time we’ve gotten insight into Raidah’s actual politics, she’s been very firmly left of center. Stale apolitical centrists do not talk about how the office of the President is a vessel for American imperialism. It’s silly to assume she has no opinion about this.
She is a careerist, and that’s certainly a consideration, but I’m annoyed at this need people have for Raidah to have bad politics. It actually makes her a more compelling antagonist that she has pretty good politics, I feel!
My position on Raidah has hardened.
On the scant evidence we have, the only cause that Raidah has is herself. That’s not “bad politics” that’s being a certain kind of American.
She’s very good at snark, and that’s a great attack at Dorothy, but let’s not build Raidah into something she’s clearly not. Let’s wait and see how Willis builds Raidah’s character.
Asma’s politics are fairly clear in her commitment. We’ve seen her do something, just as we’ve seen Amazigirl do something for the “cause”
Qutb, the great Islamist would have hated all of them.
I would love to wait and get more information about Raidah but Willis only wheels her out once every eight months so I’m forced to analyze her based upon the information I have.
Not sure what Sayyid Qutb has to do with any of this, also cool it with throwing “Islamist” around.
I posted about Qutb further up the page. You clearly missed my pearls of wisdom on Islamism and it’s connection to America.
In response to your tone policing, I think you might want to cool it with the over-analysis. Makes it look like you’re building straw people to further your own prejudice
“Over-analysis” is when you present your interpretation of a character based on the information given, apparently.
Raidah is readying her qualifications to get in the short line. She’ll be on the Rolodex at Newsmax under “Women, black or brown, the ‘good ones’ “.
Once again these are simply not Raidah’s politics. She’s not a conservative and she wouldn’t be caught dead on Newsmax.
We know almost nothing of Raidah’s politics. And what little we’ve seen her say is filtered through either attacking Dorothy or manipulating Jacob.
She has not shown any politics. Whatever her beliefs are have yet to be seen. I consider them fungible. But I see no there there.
Dorothy has not shown any politics, yet in Leslie’s class told Roz where to get off when Roz blamed (homeschooled, sheltered 18-y.o. Joyce) for the religious bigotry she was raised in.
It’ll be quite a whipsaw if Raidah speaks out like Dorothy did.
Silly thing to say. Of course they’ve shown politics. It’s impossible for them not to have. We live in a political world.
Dorothy, for most of her life, has been a fairly comfortable white liberal. She’s aware of systemic issues but for the most part has believed very firmly in institutional solutions to those issues. That belief being punctured is a core element of the doom spiral that culminated in the protest.
Raidah, meanwhile, is a brown Muslim woman in an overwhelmingly conservative state. She is completely clear-eyed about the issues of misogyny, Islamophobia, and racism that she’s no doubt had to struggle against for her entire life. She’s a striver, a careerist, and an opportunist and that’s all in service of the fact that she has to fight much harder than most people to get a fraction of what they do. On the occasions she has discussed political issues, she has made a point that the office of the president is a vessel for American imperialism and war crimes, and expressed resentment towards wet-eared white liberals making things about themselves. At minimum, she’s left of center irrespective of her careerist tendencies.
“She has made a point that the office of the president is a vessel for American imperialism and war crimes.”
So she’s going to be part of the solution? Because I want to see her recognize that it ain’t getting better on its own.
These white liberals are college freshmen. How fully-formed does she expect them to be? She’s not running purity tests, I hope. If she’s trying to get them to figure out something about life she couldn’t be more offputting.
I just hope Raidah treats the people who hate black Muslim women strivers with the disdain she has for those who are “gettable”. I’d like to see that but I’m not holding my breath.
You’ve made up Raidah’s politics
I’ve made reasonable deductions based upon the information I’ve been given.
Honestly, you have no idea what she believes, because the one time she actually talked about something political was in attacking Dorothy’s aspirations, and there’s zero indication that this was anything more than a manipulation.
And you really, REALLY can’t go assuming political position based off of race. Regardless of how obvious it is. You will find Latinos suddenly backing Republicans because they’re sending “the bad ones” home, up until they’re sent home. You’ll see black people criticizing the “thugs” and trying to show that THEY are the “good ones”.
I have a cousin who married a Vietnamese woman; they have three kids. I always thought that they were, if not fairly liberal, at least middle of the road. Up until 2020, when they became full-blown MAGA, even with her posting on January 6th to all our family, to “watch as history is being made.”
Ick ick ick ick ick.
The only side that we know, for sure, that Raidah is on, is Raidah’s side. Beyond that, this is a character who has so many faces and so many masks that we really can’t tell for sure what is what.
Honestly if Joyce explained why she was there and how it got interrupted by the riot police, I feel like this is one of the few times Raidah might actually sympathize at least in the ‘human decency’ department. It was a genuine act.
Dorothy otoh probably deserves this reaction from Raidah. It’s a reaction I don’t agree with, but Dorothy was doing some very individualist bs at a collectivist function.
I hate how often the ‘kissing/being romantic’ part is getting paired in breaking from the collectivist function. Them being queer was not the problem. The problem was the way Willis had wrote the protest, up to that point, as a backdrop rather than an integral part of the storyline. It’s the mindset that resulted in/was behind the kissing. You can kiss people at protests in a collectivist manner. Literally being gay is fighting power if you are conscious and purposeful about it.
Boosting morale and keeping protests centered on love and peace is a tale as old as crime. It’s a bit contrary to Islam and Islamic values, so I don’t think it has a place here. But even then I can imagine something like a lot of pro-peace Jews and Muslims getting together intentionally and purposefully to kiss as part of their resistance. But a lot (not most) of the criticism of the being gay and doing crimes has been on the actions not having a place in protests. The Vietnam War protests would beg to differ. It’s anti-collectivism and individualist thinking and approaches that are the problem.
… I don’t think there’s any chance Raidah might sympathize.
Greeting: Insult. “Wow, you reek.”
Response: Taunting. “Oooo, do you FEEL BETTER? Did you GET ATTENTION?”
Explanation: “It’s not that I dislike what you did, I just am cynical towards your entire race.”
… there’s no world in which you sit her down and whitesplain to her what you were actually doing and why that she suddenly now accepts them and has sympathy for them. She has already made up her mind before anyone said anything.
“We weren’t at the protest because we cared about the genocide, we were just there for my sister” is arguably worse!
No it isn’t? “I went to go tell my sister that she was in possible additional peril due to outside threats.” That’s not a threat that threatens just Jocelyne it could effect a lot of people at the protest both by proxy and similarity depending on why ‘dad’ had the picture. You cannot be pissed off at both ‘performatively going to a protest’ and also ‘not going to a protest because you don’t know enough about it to authentically support it’. You can be upset at ignorance but ‘going there to warn/help the safety of someone else in the protest of things outside their possibly planned scope’ is inarguably ‘a reasonable reason to go’. Raidah has many flaws but she at least makes an attempt to be consistent.
I think you are vastly underestimating a person’s ability to be pissed off when they have already decided to do so. You can get upset for literally any reason or no reason at all. And Raidah already despises them both. She called Joyce “that bubble-headed MAGA” something or other, and she literally sabotaged Dorothy’s plans for the future by deliberately acting like she was a monster to even consider it.
I think that Dot is saying that, if you’ve already decided to despise someone, and the reason you’re taunting them now is because you want them to believe they’re hypocrites for going to a protest, having them confirm that they were there for the safety of a family member and not because of the children being unjustly killed, doesn’t do a thing to shake her. It just fills in the color so that she can rebound with a more personalized attack.
^
Didn’t Dorothy straight up wind up behind the barricades because she was mad at the cops ultimately for the nature of the crackdown? I’m baffled here – that’s one of the Reasons Protest Works – the cops hit a crowd, and people who HAD been mostly on the sidelines go “oh, that’s fucked”, and respond with anger. It’s what nonviolence is trying to do!
While I think an inexperienced activist playing disruptor is a bad decision (I think the disruptor HAS a role, and generally has to be one of the least assumed-criminal people in the room (because they will likely be arrested) (so a cisgender white lady is a good pick!)) I don’t think it’s a morally damning one; to be honest, I’d take a young activist who engaged in disruption every time over the coward that hisses “we are peaceful!” At the people in a nonviolent standoffs with the cops, which is what most of you sound like rn. I think “I’m going to get arrested” is *stupid*, but for an unconnected person it’s really only going to hurt them, and is therefore their call, not even the call of organizers.
I also don’t think deciding to stand side by side with your partner as they get arrested is counterrevolutionary, and I dare say you should go watch your partner be arrested at a protest if you disagree – you’ll feel the call of the police line then, I promise.
I don’t think she was angry at the cops for that; I think that was what she voiced because she couldn’t REALLY voice what she was upset about. She was upset because she couldn’t have anything she wanted: not Presidency, not Joyce, not anything. Faced with walking back with Joyce to a world where she has her boyfriend and Joyce has hers and she’s struggling to figure out where to go in a world where she’ll never make the difference she wanted, and staying and fighting for just a tiny bit of difference before eventually returning to that world anyways, she stayed and fought.
I mean, when Joyce came back to her, it’s not like what they talked about was the atrocities and genocide and how they couldn’t let the tear gas and police stop this. It was, I can’t have anything I want. Not now, not ever. She decided in ONE PANEL, right after contemplating returning with Joyce, that she REALLY REALLY cared about this, and then never again after that speech.
It wasn’t a selfless act advocating for injustice on others. It was a self-destructive act motivated by anger at her own perceived injustices.
Bingo. This is the worm in the apple of the protest setpiece, and why it left such a sour taste in so many people’s mouths: the actual issues of the protest were subordinated to Dorothy’s personal issues. It was never really about the protest.
Whatever injustices happened to the people of Bulmeria, were overshadowed by the injustices that happened to the people who came to the protest, which were overshadowed by the injustices that Dorothy was experiencing.
And while that’s accurate for how humans are wired to feel – we feel strongest for ourselves and those we love, then to our community, then to others outside that community – that’s the inverse of the point of a protest, which aims to take an injustice that is far away and thrust it in people’s face.
It still bothers me that we never really heard to the degree that Ruttech, or the college, was actually complicit in the genocide itself. I know that a comic strip really can’t exposition-dump the sort of research that someone needs to do… but people make decisions all the time on what to support or not based on nothing more deep than what we saw in the strip, and it’d be nice to see something like “lobbyists funded by Ruttech and/or the campus had advocated against a cease fire” or something like that.
If we’re going by what little we saw and by similar divestment protests, there’s no link as direct as “lobbied against a ceasefire.” It’s that the college is invested in companies that make weapons that are used in/by Bulmeria – said weapons possibly being sold directly or possibly being bought by the US government and then passed on.
Ruttech itself would be a sub-contractor that makes computer systems used in some weapons systems.
I’m touchy enough as a trans woman about the way that queer people are put in danger at protests that I won’t pick most of this fight: I’m likely to start using the words “dangerously homophobic” to describe relatively minor sleights in a way that probably means I should disengage at this point.
I will say, however, that that’s not what the text says. Dorothy says, “The university is happily aiming snipers at their own students so they keep on funding murder elsewhere. And if we still continue raising a fuss, they’ll change the law overnight so we can’t. We’re being intimidated into compliance, and fascism is winning.” and then proceeds to risk getting arrested in way that would likely get her charged in a context where the only reason that doesn’t happen is a deus ex machina. This isn’t “your life is over” but it’s also not “you get to go back to your life”. This is about the limit of what I should say on this matter.
As I see it, there are substantive critiques of where the camera has focused during this arc. I think Asma could have gotten more time, I think the camera could have been looser during the height of the protest itself, and I think the narrative certainly is a self-actualization narrative as a result that is troubling. But I think a lot of the criticism takes valid criticism of the author, and pins it on totally normal behavior from a fictional queer woman who is experiencing a fairly process of radicalization. I… don’t like that.
*fairly normal
First – I want to apologize for my actions making you feel attacked. I won’t pretend for a moment that I understand what it’s like to be in that vulnerable of a position, and it was not my intention to trivialize. I misspoke enough in that, that I feel I accidently said that she didn’t care, or that she wasn’t angry at police.
((ALSO – this is me from the end of the post. I’m so sorry – I realize this long post probably looks like I’m angry or something. I’m not. I hyperfixate and sunk way too much time in this and didn’t realize how it might have come off. So if you can, imagine me as a comic book nerd arguing about why Quicksilver could beat The Flash or something. I’m going over minutiae about my favorite imaginary people.))
She obviously cares. She cares a good deal. But on the list of everything that she cares about right now, it’s very low priority.
I say this because:
– Up until speaking to Mary in the laundry room (June 14), she hadn’t voiced an opinion, and when she does it’s very general (You can be against bombing civilians when governments and terrorists do it)
– She goes because she is afraid for Joyce, and plans to just go in, go out (June 16)
– She had no idea how subversive the protest was (June 24) implying she isn’t really plugged in to the cause.
– She has “cop energy,” according to Asma. (June 25) She’s an outsider, not protesting.
– That’s backed up on June 30th, saying that if not for a few circumstances, she would be in the counter-protest, where Mary was, and on the side of the institutions (the campus and the police).
– Realizing that those in power manipulated things was an “epiphany” that everyone else was long aware of. (July 3)
– Dorothy and Joyce have a long, drawn-out conversation about how they’re going back to normal life, and back to their boyfriends, and how they can’t just stay here, holding hands (July 6)
– THEN, on July 7th, she has a single panel – just one – in which she’s only talking about how terrible the snipers and the campus and everything is being and how they’re letting facism win. Within two panels, it’s back to “everything” and how you always have to wait to MAYBE get what you want. Then a focus again on them holding hands.
– Then on July 7th, they’re head to head, close enough to kiss, talking about how Dorothy’s way never got her anything that she ever wanted, and how much she loves Joyce’s anger, her “stupid, beautiful anger.”
– July 11th, Jocylene tells her there’s no use staying there, nothing will be accomplished, she doesn’t need to do this, and Dorothy says, in all bold, “You don’t know what I need.
– July 13th, Dorothy says, “My entire life has been things I can’t have – not now, not later, not EVER. Let me have this.” To which Joyce replies, “You have always, ALWAYS had me.”
– July 14th, they kiss.
– July 15th, they evacuate.
In all of that, I can 100% say that Dorothy CARES about what the protest is, and wants to fight for this. I 100% believes she’s against genocide and believes that she’s on the right side.
But would you say that this is what she NEEDS? Is she standing there, holding the sign, because this is the issue she is passionate about and will fight for? Or is she doing that because, of everything that she can’t do and can’t have, that’s the one thing that is in her control, which she can do?
I believe it’s the second. I believe everything else leading up to that and after has said that it’s the second. I believe that Dorothy’s one-panel monologue about how horrible the genocide and snipers and facism are, was the safe thing to express, while the camera and focus was pointing at the thing that she *really* cared about. I believe that Dorothy’s there for the same exact reason that Robin’s there, and that only after she showed up she learned, in about five minutes, that it was a cause worth fighting for. And I also believe that if Joyce had kissed her back on July 7th, there is a zero percent chance she would ever have stayed.
Because when Dorothy retorted to Jocylene that she didn’t know what she needed, what she was referring to wasn’t the cause. What she needed was Joyce.
I am disengaging, but I want you to know that I’m not upset with you, I appreciate your apology, don’t think it was particularly necessary and I am disengaging because I am realizing that there is some bleed here for me as a person who identifies very deeply Joyce (Let’s just say that “feeling the call of the police line” as I said earlier after your partner is arrested is not hypothetical for me, and leave it at that), and that’s maybe not the best thing for a thread about race, queerness, and protest. This demands a nuance that I am not capable of.
At some point, I’ll come your analysis.
I think part of the issue is that Willis is absolutely 100% aware of Dorothy and Joyce not being that into the protest.
And that is the story.
“Didn’t Dorothy straight up wind up behind the barricades because she was mad at the cops ultimately for the nature of the crackdown?”
No.
I have issues even with that as “why protests work”. That tactic can be very effective when you’re protesting something like police brutality, but in many other cases, all it does is shift the focus of attention from the original cause to police violence and to the right to protest, which doesn’t actually help the people being genocided here.
And if the protest organizers have decided this isn’t a good strategy at this time, maybe it’s not great for a couple of clueless but photogenic white freshmen with no stake or real understanding decide they need to play that role.
Fuck you, Raidah
raidah is right but this time it feels like it’s by accident
if you’re always suspicious of someone you’re gonna be right eventually
of course it’s very possible I’m showing my privilege here buttttt it’s established that she despises joyces (for pretty reasonable reasons to be fair) ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I hope we get to see Asma and Raidah interact over politics
There’s a whole interesting discussion there around working within the system or protest, especially considering the last two years
(Also other radical actions)
And their lives are very different.
It will very interesting
well she’s right and i’m genuinely glad she’s saying it. i was very uncomfortable this whole arc and having raidah acknowledge the tension of “hey this genocide protest should probably Not Be About You Two White Girls” is. yeah. that’s good. thank you raidah.
Yeah but she also was not there and did not see how the girls handled themselves at the protest or that it was mainly a pretext for them to get together. She literally just heard that two white girls went to a protest and got angry about it.
i think it’s easy enough for raidah to figure that these two girls have never once expressed any opinion on this genocide. dorothy had never once considered that the president of the united states is, like, a bad person and war criminal until raidah pointed it out. joyce is an extremely recently recovering fundie who literally less than a year ago would likely be right next to mary, with the counter protestors, because she had never given thought to this sort of thing.
and raidah would have guessed right. the people who actually cared about the protest, like joss, told them to leave. they Were only there because it soothed their egos to do something “rebellious”. it has nothing to do with their opinions on the genocide. and it’s pretty gross that that’s the case, and it’s good raidah called them out on it!
Nah, she’s wrong. They didn’t go there for attention, they went to talk to Joss.
You know, it really is stunning how ill-equipped most people are to discuss racism
Most white people, I should say.
That’s literally the system set up. People are ignorant at the most important age of their lives to be illuminated. People not taught during school age become metastasized into rigid thinking and not prioritizing important issues. White people who are not taught at a young age will be unequipped unless they make friends or have family that are effected.
I cannot tell you how many times in my life I’ve come across people of all races that either didn’t really know stuff, or who only knew about things because their family members taught them directly due to their own life experience. Truth and empathy aren’t just qualities. They are skills. Skills that are currently being eroded for the so called betterment of wealthy landed gentry. Anyone can be ill-equipped. It’s the intended outcome of the system.
Whether it is from previous bad experiences with white activists her age or just being petty, Raidah’s cynicism is kinda fun to read. As Dorothy’s political awakening is developing, I think it goes to show how she (Dorothy) is gonna be alright even if her intentions are a mess and her actions are short-sighted, when confronted with negativity.
I highly doubt Willis would like to write her backsliding when someone (who is known to be an ass) is distrusting her intentions for protesting. [And if she did, I would not blame Raidah.]
It feels true to life that college-aged students getting into activism and politics are going to be downright hostile and unhelpful to each other. I was unsure about the inclusion of the protests as the backdrop for the stor before, but I’m now interested to see how this can further develop Dorothy and maybe even Raidah 😛
Apologies for the ramble. I think this strip is neat.
this comment section so white and anglo saxon n shit
And then they never engaged in political action again
Okay so, there are some context clues about Raidah that people seem to be missing and/or willfully ignoring.
Raidah, like Jacob, is a Black person from an affluent upbringing. It is very likely that her parents had to bust their asses to reach the social strata that allowed them to afford her that upbringing, and quite likely their parents did too. Raidah’s family are also Muslim, and the Black Muslim experience in the US is markedly different from other Muslim communities, often tied in with historically Black colleges, fraternities and sororities, etc.
Raidah’s parents are painfully aware of the game as it’s played being Black and occupying a status that white people tend to think is exclusive to them. They know the boundaries of the privilege they’ve managed to amass, and how conditional it can be if you make a misstep. They’re very aware that merit often matters less than who you know.
And, for better or worse, they have never let Raidah forget that for a second. She had everything planned out, she was going to know the right people, and she was not going to squander what her parents gave her.
It’s not really working out that way. Life is getting in the way. Sarah knocked out a key pillar in what Raidah considered her support structure. Joyce knocked out another.
The pressure from her parents, real or perceived, is still there. She may well be in the shitty parents club as much as anyone.
All of this is implicit in Raidah’s characterization. Her method of coping with it isn’t great, but just as much as Dorothy she is aware that trying to unpick this could derail EVERYTHING, and she’s not ready for that, especially since like Dorothy she’s under the impression that would carry some lifelong consequences.
Ah, is Raidah specifically Black? I always read her as Arab but I wasn’t aware if her ethnicity had been specified in supplemental material. That does add another layer to things though, you’re right.
I’m not sure if it’s been directly stated, but the “We’re going to be a lawyer power couple” plan she had with Jacob, who she sought out because his big brother is a reasonably famous Black lawyer seems to slot into a very particular vision for her life.
That’s a fair read, yeah.
Personally I lean on Indian or Pakistani, but that’s more due to her surname being Rasheed, but that’s not a definitive thing, just hinted.
I forgot about her surnam orz
I had personally not taken it into account because a fair number of Black Muslims changed their names when they converted. That’s admittedly me extrapolating and fitting a narrative, but at the least it didn’t immediately suggest an ethnicity to me.
Fair enough.
It’s possible, but I don’t see any reason to think she (or her family) are Black American converts to Islam – especially not to any of the “Black Muslim” groups (like Nation of Islam) that aren’t considered mainstream Islam by most Muslims.
Indian or Pakistani is probably likely, given the name and a few other clues, but a family that immigrated from an Islamic region of Africa is possible too.
Oh wow, I guess it’s true that we don’t know Raidah’s racial background! I was partially under the impression that she was a Black Muslim too, because seeing North African Diaspora rep is so rare that I wanted to believe™, but also because her little hair pouf always reminds me of the kind of blown out straightened hair my Mom + Aunties tend to get. It’s be pretty sick though if she was southwest asian!
I took “likes: Aasif Mandvi” from her character sheet as shorthand for “South Asian”, in addition to everything else mentioned.
Hell yeah Raidah understander
I’ve enjoyed this arc and Joyce and Dorothy are among my favorite characters, but Raidah is absolutely correct here and she should say it.
So she’s correct to judge someone based on their race and the fact that they’re younger than she is? The hell is wrong with you?
It’s unfortunate that you view the observation of structural racism as a character flaw, particularly given that the entire storyline we just read revealed that both Joyce and Dorothy had selfish reasons for being at the protest, and neither was acting out of strong ethical or moral concerns like Jocelyne and Asma were.
This is not a case of “reverse racism”, which is also not a thing. Neither is it a case of ageism. She is maybe being a little rude and dismissive because she does not like either Joyce or Dorothy, but being rude and dismissive doesn’t make her incorrect.
you must be pretty tickled with all the US’s new “addressing racism is the real racism” laws.
She’s not and she should shut up.
Hard to evaluate Raidah’s conduct in this trip when her assessment of white freshmen in general is spot-on, but her assessment of Joyce and Dorothy specifically is at least 60% caused by her being kind of an asshole.
She has legit beef with Joyce, and Dorothy has done a piss-poor job of unpacking her vision of herself as the person who’s going to step in and Fix Everything And Everyone, which can be (admittedly uncharitably) read as a bit of a White Savior thing.
In Raidah’s eyes, Dorothy has not Done The Work, and has unrealistic ideas of what The Work even involves, and where her path would lead.
But at the same time, there’s a bit of familiarity breeding contempt there too. Dorothy had everything planned out. So did Raidah. Raidah has had to recalibrate that a couple of times so while it may be petty, she decided to tear down Dorothy’s a bit too.
Which while the execution was not kind and not meant to be, has driven Dorothy’s admittedly fitful growth.
You raise a lot of points which are why I assessed about 60% being an asshole. But a lot of her assessment is based on pigeon-holing people into quick and unflattering archetypes, predicated largely on the fact that the circumstances under which she met them made her hope she wouldn’t end up liking them. Even when there’s some truth to the conclusions she reaches, it’s still kind of a shitty way to treat people (people in this case not meaning Joyce and Dorothy specifically, just people in general).
Yeah, if it wasn’t coming from Raidah the Networker specifically, I’d judge it as a fair uninformed view for simply smelling the gas on a pair of freshmen.
And to what extent is she being an asshole to them because what she’s seeing is “that Hillary Clinton wannabe whose life’s dream is to be a war criminal” and “that fucking [UNPRINTABLE] who ran roughshod on my relationship,” both of whom are “friends of that goddamn asshole who got Dana yanked out of school?”
Yeah, “Sarah sent Joyce to break up my relationship with Jacob which Joyce then proceeded to do with a shocking quickness” is not an unreasonable interpretation because, you know, that is exactly what happened.
The fact that Joyce doesn’t have a malicious bone in her body may endear her to readers, but Raidah is justified in a LOT of things.
I’d disagree on Joyce not having any malicious bones! Some of those bones can be downright nasty. Possibly her femurs?
Regardless, agreed. People seemingly forget that Raidah has legitimate beef with Joyce (and Sarah! even though we know Sarah’s side of the story, and how she feels justified in what she did, we noticeably don’t have Dana’s or really Raidah’s).
Eh, I’ll start caring about the wrongs done to Raidah when she stops being such a one-note, stereotypical bully. Raidah’s gone from literally bullying people at the mall to now scheming to break up Sarah and Tony just yesterday.
The fact that she made two out of those three assessments is what makes her an asshole. She’s had a year to see things from Sara’s perspective, and maybe not agree with it, but at least see where her actions came from. She’s had sufficient interaction with Dorothy to know that, while there are a shitload of flaws that mitigate it, Dorothy is ultimately driven by genuine conscience.
Joyce she might be at least somewhat wrong about, but she does at least come by it honestly.
I mean… no? Not really?
Why would she be at all inclined to consider Sarah’s perspective? She knows what Sarah thinks happened, but it doesn’t align with what she believes – and what Dana has told her. Remember, she’s still in contact with her.
Dorothy she knows as that obnoxious white liberal freshman, she’s barely interacted with her. What reason does she have to give her a second thought?
She’s completely justified in hating Joyce, I’d hate her too if I was in her place! Joyce broke her and her boyfriend up!
Knowing what Sarah thinks happened and knowing that it doesn’t align with what she believes would be an entirely reasonable position to hold if that was the end of it. But she also explicitly states several times that Sarah is lying about what she thinks happened, and instead ascribes to her much more sinister motivations.
“I know you did what you think was right for everyone involved, but I think it caused harm and I resent you for it” is an entirely different thing than “You deliberately schemed to fuck over my friend, entirely for your own selfish gain.”
Sarah herself has admitted multiple times that one of the reasons she did it was because if her grades slip she loses her merit scholarship, and she can’t afford to attend anymore. That’s a valid concern, but it’s definitely not a selfless one.
Remember that Sarah, unlike most people, is more likely to de-emphasize concerns that reveal that she cares about people. She emphasizes that because it fits her misanthropic grouch persona.
Selfish and selfless aren’t the only two options. “Everyone involved” can include herself, as long as it doesn’t exclude everyone else.
It’s worth remembering that her initial solution was to find Dan a therapist. That would have meant at least a year before her life went all the way back to normal. She only changed tactics because the same people accusing her of stabbing Dana in the back refused to help her help Dana the better way.
We’re introduced to her when she and her friends run into Sara and Dina at the mall, where she and her friends make fun of both of them because they think Dina’s intellectually disabled. She half-assedly objects when one of her friends makes it a little too on-the-nose, and objects a bit more strongly when her other friend outright drops the r-slur. Then two appearances later, she’s still hanging out with both of those friends.
Meanwhile, the following is an actual exchange she had with Dorothy:
Dorothy: “Don’t we all agree we should prioritize rhetorical oneupsmanship less than understanding the human cost of our actions?”
Raidah (pointing to herself): “Dorothy? Future lawyer. That’s a no.”
Based on that interaction alone, I think I might have been phrasing it not strongly enough: She knows Dorothy has more of a conscience than her, and not only does she not care, she’s actually willing to boast about it.
I go to protests a lot, and I’m an old white guy. There are legit reasons to be cynical about old white guys. And who knows if my motives are “right.” But I still go.
Think that over, Raidah.
Also, Joyce and Dorothy? You both stink of tear gas and sexual arousal. Best get upstairs and out of those clothes.
No, wait, forget I said that…
I like this for two reasons:
Going back in the protest was both a defining character moment for these two, AND an example of them not really thinking about the reason for the protest or the larger ramifications of their actions, just themselves. That’s also a defining character moment, as is what they do about it from here.
There’s no way that’s just a random dig from Raidah, they totally did get caught on camera. This is about to blow up and I am sitting with the popcorn.
I wonder if she’d take it better or worse if she learned that they initially just went to warn Joyce’s sister
So I think ultimately the author had a difficult needle to thread here and he did a pretty good job of it. But not a perfect one.
Raidah’s last words are effective specifically because the comic used a protest mainly in service to the character of our two white freshman leads. Because Willis can’t go back in time and un-ring that bell, a comic where he has a Muslim* woman go “hey, that was bad” is the next best thing to a direct author’s note apology being inserted. So credit there.
However, I have a problem with her last line. It only works in the context of Joyce and Dorothy’s actions. Absent that, it makes it sound like the position Raidah is advocating is “White freshmen should sit down and shut up”.
So let’s say someone who reads the comic interprets it that way (Obviously, an author is not responsible for every interpretation any reader anywhere could make, but when an interpretation is pretty easy to make, as I feel this one is, it’s reasonable to consider.). They have two options as I see it: they can take that statement as a position advanced by the author or they can see it as an antagonist being wrong. And I think the strip favors the former interpretation.
Because don’t get me wrong- Raidah is obviously an antagonist, and a tremendous asshole. But in the context of this strip being, functionally, an apology for the author’s previous misstep, it doesn’t make much sense for her to suddenly be wrong-headed about this. Which leaves the interpretation that Dave Willis is saying that white freshmen should “stay in their lane” and leave the real work to minority folks.
I know that this is not a position Mr. Willis is actually advocating for. But it’s one that, I feel, a reasonable person (not someone “looking to be offended”, for example) might make.
And so I want to push back on the notion while simultaneously acknowledging that no one might actually think that.
Because I *do* think “stay in your lane” comments are worth refuting. Because ultimately they come down to the notion that the mere presence of a majority in a minority space is inherently problematic.
I could bore you with a discussion of my personal circumstances here, but TL;DR- I’m a white male ESL teacher in a poor urban district and I live in a town that’s about 3% white folks. I live “majority in minority spaces” every single damn day of my life. And I could make rhetorical arguments about the contradiction between “stay in your lane” and “silence is complicity”, but ultimately what it comes down to is that I believe in what I do and I believe that it makes my little corner of the world just a bit better of a place. And any argument that what I do is “overstepping” or “imposing” is going to fall flat in the face of my lived experience.
Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.
*The protests being about “Bulmeria” rather than anything IRL creates another wrinkle, since the name always rang to me as being “Eastern European”. That, obviously, doesn’t preclude it being a Muslim country- you only have to look at the issues Muslim folks in Bosnia-Hertzegovina faced during the Yugoslav wars in the 90s as an example- but it makes things trickier than they would be if the protests were just directly about the Gaza genocide.
To give an example of that lived experience, mostly because it’s a nice story that goes in my folder of “fun anecdotes to share when talking about work”-
Earlier in the month, I got a new student in my summer school class of rising 2nd grade ESL kids. This young lady was visibly crying while the rest of the class was eating their breakfast.
I talked to her, and confirmed that she had enough conversational English such that I wouldn’t have to try and use my (frankly abominable attempt at) Spanish to tell her what I wanted to say. And I told her that I had faced this exact same situation yoicks ago when I worked in Japan and had another 7 year old who was so scared of her first lesson that she threw up all over herself (thankfully this child never had that problem!)
And I told her that after one or two classes, this Japanese student came in smiling and happy, and I hoped that she would feel the same way.
Now, about half the mornings she comes in to summer school, she comes up to me and gives me a hug, and she’s one of my more attentive students (it’s 2nd grade summer school. The bar is super-low, but she clears it haha). Seeing her conquer her fear has helped make what has otherwise been a frustrating experience to be much more bearable.
More charitably, I’d say the message of this interaction is “activism is a sensitive space, and you should take care when fighting for the rights of the oppressed not to center yourself, nor to consider yourself entitled to the grace or gratitude of those you’re fighting for.”
I think that’s absolutely the intention. But language is not a perfect system, so sometimes our intentions get misinterpreted, which is where my comment came from.
There, too, while it may get me accused of “tone policing”, I do think that majority activists are entitled to react negatively to what they see as undeserved criticism.
So, for instance, if we posit a counterfactual where Dorothy and Joyce had been part of the encampment for days out of a genuine desire to see change, I wouldn’t expect them to just “take it on the chin”.
As should be obvious by now, I like to relate things to my personal experience, so let me do that again now.
A couple of years ago, shortly after I moved to my town (3% white, in case you don’t feel like scrolling up), I was on my way to a bus stop with my eyes on my phone and my big headphones on. Because construction meant the sidewalk was closed, a black woman in front of me came to the conclusion I was following her. While I obviously apologized for the confusion, unfortunately we were going to the same bus stop so I had to keep going in the same direction. She insulted me a lot as I tried to de-escalate, eventually accusing me of racism simply because I was a white guy in a black town. And while I do not in any way shape or form wish that woman ill, I hope to never see her again because I don’t believe I deserved that, and I reserve my right to feel upset that walking to a bus stop minding my own business was taken to be a hostile act.
I’ll obviously cop to not being perfect. I do want to give an example where I would be a jerk for pushing back on criticism. A month ago, our district had an “Olympics” event that I chaperoned for. Our school was chosen to represent Ghana. Some of my ESL students are Ghanaian, everyone got into cheering for Ghana, a good time was had by all. On my way home from work that day, a black woman got my attention and asked why I was wearing a t-shirt that said “Ghana” on it, and I got to explain what we did- she was very appreciative!
That experience being fresh in my mind was probably why I didn’t stop and consider how it would look when I saw a woman whose wrap was in the colors of the Ghanaian flag and said “excuse me”, wanting to ask if she was also from Ghana and share this positive experience. She gave me a look and sped up, justifiably sus of why a white man was talking to her out of the blue. I’ll take the L on that one, and criticize myself for not thinking hard enough about how I came across.
Most of the time, if someone makes a joke about “white people” or “the straights”, I’m just going to roll my eyes and move on. It’s not worth it to confront tired stereotypes or microaggressions against me when I’m in the majority on so many things and minority folks have to deal with much worse. But again I reserve the right to find said jokes tiresome, unproductive, and a sign that the person making them may not be worth engaging too deeply.
Another, shorter point:
I think it would have gotten the message across better if Asma had made this point. This is the essence of Monday morning quarterbacking, I’m well aware.
But I think Raidah’s antagonistic role in the comic means that there are folks who might otherwise get the point who are dismissing it because “Raidah is a self-serving bongo”.
Yeah, Asma doesn’t bring the baggage Raidah does.
I actually disagree? I mean, in a total vacuum, maybe, if Asma hadn’t already called the girls out at the protest (and gotten a LOT of flak from people for doing so), and if our last shot of her hadn’t been visibly troubled by other things.
I think having her make this snipe at Joyce and Dorothy right now would probably feel a little redundant, and definitely wouldn’t be that much better-received, from folks who would think she’d already been “mean” enough to Joyce and Dorothy earlier.
I don’t think there’s really a version of this where any character points this out and the comment section doesn’t get kinda frothing mad.
None of that is equal to the bag age of the ablist shit during Raidah’s introduction or her mean girl bullshit with her friend group.
Let me be very clear: what I disagree with is the idea that Asma saying any variant of this line would’ve gone over significantly better with the comment section. Just… idk, go back a few days, and look at the sheer number of comments complaining that Asma was needlessly rude and hostile to Joyce and Dorothy, that she should’ve assumed the best of them, that saying Dorothy had “cop energy” was unfair, etc.
*shrug*
You’re free to disagree. Like I said, I’m nitpicking here, this is not something with stakes attached. But I think it would have disarmed some of the bad faith arguments.
Well, let me for sure agree that there would’ve been DIFFERENT bad faith arguments. It’s definitely true that a lot of commenters were already predisposed to dislike and dismiss Raidah, no matter what she says!
I was not expecting so many comments along the lines of “the concept of white privilege is racist against white people”.
I unfortunately expected it, but that’s because I’m from the south and hear this talk often. Never underestimate the bruised ego of white people when slightly inconvenienced or insulted.
Or when we’re not even insulted or inconvenienced, someone just admitted we’re white. Even surface-level acknowledgement gets people defensive, For Some Reason™.
It definitely has that “not all men” stink to it.
It’s not the concept of white privilege, it’s the idea that people are inherently lesser because they’re white (and young).
I’m not going to assume anything about you, or your life experiences. I’m just going to suggest that you should ruminate on why Raidah would be dubious about the intentions of white people that she considers to be uninformed being present at a highly politicized protest. You don’t have to agree that she’s right to make assumptions about them. But I think it’d behoove you to consider her perspective, particularly as a brown Muslim woman.
Dorothy’s a poly sci major who was accepted into Yale. If Raidah considers her uninformed about the political protest on campus, she’s mistaken.
Dorothy was not accepted into Yale on the strength of her poli sci credentials lmao
Also Dorothy was textually uninformed about the protest. She didn’t realize how subversive it was being considered by campus administration or that they had taken measures to suppress it. Anyone with any knowledge of this kind of protest would have taken those sorts of things as a given.
She absolutely knew they took measures to suppress it, she just didn’t expect them to be that extreme. In the strip back on the 3rd she was aware that the laws had been changed that morning to combat protests. Also yes I know they took her real life experiences into account when admitting her, that doesn’t mean she wasn’t qualified. Yale turns down reams of qualified applicants because they lack life experience. Not exactly a “lmao” worthy thing to point out.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2025/comic/book-15/04-the-only-exception/trustees/
I think she knew about the change because of this strip here where Asma informs them of that law change when Dorothy asked why the protest was being fenced in.
She’s also a poli sci major who is regretting being a poli sci major. She’s also a freshman which means she’s in the intro level classes. She even admitted a few strips ago that she has mixed feelings about protests because she’d prefer everyone just get along. I don’t think this makes her a particularly informed person with regards to protests.
Like, yes, she’s indicated that she wants to change and she wants to challenge the part of her that’s complacent rather than activist — but she wants to change. She hasn’t changed yet!
Exactly! And hearing from other perspectives, such as Raidah callously (but…not incorrectly) reminding Dorothy that being President comes with war crimes, can help. It’s definitely not what Dorothy wanted to hear, but Dorothy is on the whole unfulfilled and perhaps by having that harsh lesson broken to her early it’ll help her to change compared to wasting her life for a job that she’s going to be let down by.
Yep.
My whole perspective here is, of course, absolutely colored by my own experiences… and one of those experiences was being shocked out of my well-meaning white nonsense but some folks who were justifiably angry and didn’t sugar-coat things.
That approach isn’t always going to win people over, but the idea that it’s never the right thing to do… bugs me, because it absolutely was in my case. Because if I’d instead gotten an extremely patient and polite explanation of why what I’d said was ignorant and inappropriate, I genuinely think it would’ve rolled off my back instead of sticking with me.
Also, not every conversation with a marginalized person is gonna be productive outreach, nor does it need to be! Raidah is just a person trying to get through the dang lobby on her way somewhere else. It’s okay if she’s grouchy and off-putting to these two girls she doesn’t even like.
Which, I just have to say, really feels like a very strong description of some extremely mild criticism. But even granting people that she’s being an asshole — that’s okay.
I’d feel differently if, say, someone else — maybe Roz??? — was in the middle of gently explaining to Joyce and Dorothy why what they did wasn’t okay, and Raidah…… I don’t even know, interrupted it to tell Roz not to waste her time because Dorothy and Joyce are hopeless and white people are incapable of learning???? That, I might say was genuinely counterproductive. MAYBE.
I just think “it’s not my job to educate you” and “well, someone does need to sign up to do some educating, writing off everyone who doesn’t already know this stuff is counterproductive” can, very much, coexist — and that folks in the first camp shouldn’t actively sabotage work being done? But Raidah’s just… she’s just being a little snotty. It’s fine. It’s literally fine.
White people will recover.
Do you take the comic’s title as a horrible insult too?
hit dog hollers
Will you weirdos stop hitting dogs? What a weird phrase.
This comment section
Raidah is correct in her comment
Honestly the only issue I have with Raidah is that sometimes we see her interact with her friends and it sounds way too manipulative, like she’s a supervillain. Everything else works well enough, but those scenes leave me confused
I mean yeah she is manipulative that is part of her character not sure what is confusing about that/gen.
It would be nice to see her given a little dimension, yeah. She must have SOME redeeming qualities.
yeah like
I very much still hate Raidah for calling Dina
“mentally challenged”but I also believe she makes a very valid point in this strip
you can think both at the same time
YOU CAN THINK BOTH AT THE SAME TIME D:<
I think it’s important to note that Raidah here is less a character than she is a vehicle for the author to go “hey, I recognize that I pushed an important political movement into the background so that I could frame two white girls kissing in a particular way. That was shitty and I apologize.”
I mean, I could see why one would *think* this
But obviously I’m not gonna assume that a given strip with someone making a point like this is “forced” post hoc just because the character making the point just so happens to be Muslim.
Hell, Raidah was the one who literally start the chain reaction of Dorothy changing in the first place by reminding her what US Presidents actually do.
I should note that I don’t regard this apology as a bad thing.
Ah, thanks for clarifying, raise a valid point
Like, the way I see it, there shouldn’t be a need to do like, the progressive equivalent of hiding vegetables in brownies or some crap, because directy adressing it is something he is, and very well should, be openly and unapologetically doing.
Same goes for just about other form of direct action. When MLK was in jail, he literally wrote all about how we are well beyond the point that we can just treat racism as this problem that’s just gonna automatically fix itself in due time if our oh so perfect capitalist democracy system is left to run it’s “””natural course”””.
just for the record, that IS what Raidah called her; Char is the one who used the r-word (and Raidah criticized her for it, albeit gently, the way one tends to call out a friend they care about).
(Sorry, I felt like the strikeout maybe indicated you were misremembering who said what. Raidah was still ableist to Dina, just in a… different way, orz.)
It’s cuz I’d rather not see it, as you can imagine i find what Raidah said really offensive
Toward Dina mind you, in this strip she makes a valid point
A comment on the comments.
The writer of this comic is a white male. Most of the readers, if the readership follows standard web comic demographics, are white. This is mostly whites discussing what whites think people of color think about whites. There is a definite amount of echo chamber here. What do non-whites think of this? For example, The thread from Yotomoe, who is black, has a bit different perspective than most other comments.
That said, as long as we remember our perspective, this is a great discussion. The level of reflection on whites, performative actions, what constitutes racism, etc. is wonderful.
I want to say that as long as we all criticizing both Dorothy and Joyce, I want yo praise Willis for not taking the easy road. Since some posts from his BlueSky account, I want him to acknowledge this compliment.
same here,
the people who dismiss this effort as “white guilt” or with some other Totally Non-Political™ thought-stopping cliché can honestly go suck and swallow a stop sign
Just to be clear, I do not mean to criticize Willis in any way. I am just noting a limitation inherent in this discussion.
Of course, very valid points you make.
I DEFINITELY expect Willis to improve on how he covers issues like this (if only because of how I’m personally affected by them), but in the moment I really don’t have it in me to *judge* him for his errors if that makes sense.
Personally I think bigotry is…exceptionally easy for humans. It’s how we formed tribes, it’s how we stayed safe. But now we have created societies large and diverse enough that this instinct no longer serves a grand purpose. But we still have it. And we do what humans do. We try to rationalize it.
It’s so frustrating watching people bend over backwards to justify why it “is ok to group people together for their physical traits but only in this specific instance” Why is it so important that you have to be allowed to be mean to a group of people? Why are we working so hard to justify cruelty. None of asked to be born. None of us chose the country we were born with, none of us steered the course of society over the centuries . None of us got to choose our skin color or sex or gender or sexuality or abilities or family or hometown or species for that matter. I refuse to make someone feel bad for the crime of being born.
“But they’re reaping the benefits of a system-”
Then hate the system. That SYSTEM is probably taking something from them to even if you can’t see it.
“So what they get their feelings hurt? I could be in dange-”
So you think it’s ok to hurt others if you’ve been hurt worse? You prefer to spread pain instead of kindness because you believe you’re owed cruelty. Disgusting
“Having your feelings hurt isnt a big dea-”
A cigarette burn is much less severe than being tossed into lava but they both hurt and if you go around cigarette burning people for your own satisfaction you’re a dick (or a sadist)
Personally I have been left in tears from a passing comment. The very idea that cruelty is ok in small doses is sociopathic to me.
“Oh just put up with it. I’ve had to live through worse”
Not everyone is built that way. Some people are a jenga tower ready to crumble. Can you live with the idea of your words being part of the cocophany that caused someone to self harm? I think about that often.
I gain no comfort nor benefit from using the tools of the enemy as weapons against other. When I stand against bigotry I stand against the rhetoric that allows it to persist. If it’s not. Ok for someone to do it to me it’s not Ok for me to do it to others. They want us to hate each other. To see differences when we could see similarities. Fascism benefits from separating us into small groups. From us distrusting and hating one another. It hates solidarity. And kindness. Kindness is so much harder than bigotry.
I’m not blind to the differences we have, the societal traumas we’ve suffered, the disparity for groups, systemic power imbalance and growing political trends. I’m not immune to forming opinions of people based on immutable characteristics. But I’m working on it. I’m doing my best to see through my programming.
++++1
The writer of this comic is a white nonbinary person, but otherwise spot on.
I was basically giving this comment section a miss today as a person of color because I knew what would be going on down here.
Curiosity got the better of me, as it does.
Unfortunately, same here with the curiosity part.
Like I aint spiraling per say, but still wish I had actually listened to my past self when I wrote my first comment up there :/
After I went to bed, I set a hard boundary where I didn’t allow myself to look at the comments section until at least two hours before the new strip comes up. In general I like keeping my interactions sparse, fun and cordial because it helps me to have fun and not be cranky when I see things I don’t like down here, but I suspected some of the conversations that were going to go down today and knew I was going to come out of it feeling pretty upset. Tomorrow is a new day but dang is it rough 🙁
the thing is, Raidah isn’t wrong because of the content of her opinion on white freshmen being performative, she’s wrong because the reason they were there was entirely orthogonal to the purpose of the protest and were trying to stop Joyce’s trans sister from being put into even more danger, i.e. for a separate but still good reason. which Raidah doesn’t know. so like, the whole thing is kind of… who cares?
IMO she’s wrong because if your first reaction to seeing someone who just got attacked by thugs for being at a (non-evil) protest is to belittle them, you’re part of the problem. Doesn’t matter if they’re Whitey McRichparents fortnite dancing in front of the cops to clout farm on tiktok, they are unambiguously experiencing injustice at the hands of your enemy. What does being mean to them accomplish, aside from giving you an easy target to vent your frustrations at?
I concur
Raidah is once again correct, but not helpful.
It’s true that they recorded Joyce and Dorothy kissing, DoA won plot for more 10 years.
It’s likely true, but there’s no evidence for it yet. They tell Raidah they were at the protest, she doesn’t know. She assumes they were there for petty reasons because they’re white freshmen. That’s all we’ve got so far.
Heybjust in case this needed to be say anymore: This isn’t racism. Full stop. If you think it is then i am sorry you are just incorrect and seem to misunderstanding a lot of stuff of how discrimination work.
It’s a dissapointing but predictable result of adults falling back on an over-simplified understanding of racism watered down for 6 year olds.
Under the pervasive influence of white Christian institutions in our country, their moral intuition desires a definition of racism comprised of rules such that obeying them down to the letter is morally correct in every context.
Asma and Mary both do something which can be considered in either case, “making a judgement based on race”
Such a definiton can condemn either both or neither, but when justice calls for identifying racist action, you simply cannot do it without taking context into account.
To effectively solve the problem, we must first understand that the nature and severity of the problem we are trying to solve is one which simply does not exist in some social historical vacuum
I don’t think it’s simply “an over-simplified understanding of racism watered down for 6 year olds”, it’s distorted understanding shaped to make oppressed minorities culpable for any resentment and to shift the burden of racism off of white people.
Systemic racism always has its place in any discussion but allowing yourself to give into lumping everyone into one gro7o to be disparaging is still a form of prejudice in my book. None of us asked to be born.
Good for you, that is irrelevant to this situation.
yeah I’m just pointing to the fact that this is a definition of racism which is overwhelmingly often the one handed down to white people when they’re in grade school, it’s a provisional understanding that’s but adequate for when you’re young and don’t really know any better about the workings of the society into which you are born
it’s not always born out of malice — just out of the fact that, well
it will always take a relatively big amount of time and effort to be factually and morally right for the sake of an informed public, better decisions and policy and a more equitable society
by contrast, it will always take a relatively small amount of time and effort to remain wrong, but be satiated with quippy rhetoric and thought-terminating clichés which allow one to feel “informed enough” and absolve their guilt regardless of what is actually true and what’s needed to be understood for a better society at large
which is not to say, that shallow understanding isn’t frustrating
“Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than complete misunderstanding from people of ill will.”
— Reverend Martin Luther King Jr.
This is not a knock against Willis, but it is an unfortunate complication of the lack of development of Raidah’s character as anything other than an uncomplicated, Saturday cartoon villain. Every time I visit this comment section, I am stricken by the very first comment referring to her as a “bongo”.
It is very easy to dismiss anything that she has to say with the lack of nuance and texture she has been afforded in her every appearance to date. I’m certain that this can be remedied going forward, but I am disappointed by the general lack of grace extended to her in a volatile situation in which she has very clear stakes. She was completely right about Dorothy’s lack of comprehension over what being President would actually encompass, and she is completely right to be cynical here. Who, exactly, has given her any reason to think otherwise?
Folks get really mad when you suggest Raidah might be more complicated than a Saturday morning villain. It’s sad, because I think she easily has the potential to be the most layered and nuanced antagonist in the strip’s history.
Yeah also like
it is very possible to both be an all-around jerk and acknowledge that US Presidents are war criminals
It’s REALLY wild reading people confidently state that she must care less about the genocide than our white protagonists, just because she (checks notes) has persona enmity for Joyce, the girl who tried to steal her boyfriend, and once offhandedly told Dorothy war crimes are bad.
I went on a loooong digression or three over her character, but I still think it’s obvious that Raidah was once perfectly nice and friendly to Sarah, and soured over what happened with Dana, then soured further over Joyce’s active scheme to steal her boyfriend, and now is engaging in machinations to make both girls miserable, which includes pretending to befriend Jennifer and Walky in order to turn them against Sarah and ultimately Joyce.
People wanna extend that to “Raidah doesn’t like ANYONE, she only makes friends for their connections”, as if her initiation of Jennifer into her group wasn’t accompanied by an ominous “No more Sarah, no more Joyce” and a villainous expression.
And now they wanna extend THAT all the way to “must not care about a genocide that’s specifically against a group of Muslims”, liiiike.
I don’t know if I’d say that teargas is exactly desirable attention
the thing is someone can be deeply, deeply unpleasant as a person and still right. Heck they can believe most of the same things you do, and still kind of suck on a personal level.
Like. Yanno. How joyce at the top of the comic was a very ‘nice’ person and believed alllll that. but in reverse.
Also I’ll just assume as a black/mixed DOA reader the White Nonsense rating up above me in here is. Probably intolerable. Take this warning. Heed my plea. Theres nothing for you up there.
<3
There are some solid reasons for a Muslim student to have not been there, and they don’t owe explanations in the first place, but given how Raidah behaves among and towards her social climber group, it’s likely just cynical calculation.
As people have noted, we don’t know much about her, but that streak of vicious ambition is so strong and confident that it doesn’t leave a lot of space to the imagination.
*should have said, assuming Raidah wasn’t there at the protest, which looks very likely but unconfirmed
Wow. What a racist bongo