Dorothy is delayed arriving, because she’s finishing her Google Slides presentation about how Dorothy is gay and loves Joyce.
(dorothy always so supportive of joyce)
All I can think of is the episode of Danny Phantom where everyone is lining up to knock out the person in front of them so THEY can put on the flawed exoskeleton to go fight the big baddie at the cost of their own life…before being knocked out by the person behind THEM…
Everybody sacrificing themselves for everybody else. Beautiful. Poetic.
The romans dont seem to have had all that much pigmentation-based racism.
At least thats what “woke” history youtubers tell me.
The had dark(ish)-skinned generals, caesars and patricians after all.
They where of course helluva racist against anybody not a roman citizen – including folks who lived under the empire for dozens of decades.
That’s why it wasn’t “white” nonsense back then. Just another variation on imperialist nonsense, which goes back basically everywhere as far as we can trace. At least as far as people had the technology and organizational abilities to control other groups of people.
Also before the last 500 years or so, Europe was nowhere near so dominant on the world stage, so their nonsense was largely contained. People elsewhere had to deal with Arabic nonsense or Mongol nonsense or just their own local nonsense.
Totally, I was just making a joking reference to people supporting friendly local stores. It was meant to be kinda ironic humor, not historically accurate.
And even the evil imperialists weren’t as bad back then, at least in the racial sense. There’s portraits from the 1600s showing free black men just walking around London in finery. Not saying there was no racism whatsoever, but it wasn’t until cotton and colonization made slavery so profitable that it became useful to find an easily distinguished subset of humanity to be subjugated on industrial scale.
In his place I’d be setting a new speed record power walking away from these people and their drama. Depending on mood and schedule, I might or might not stop to watch once I reached a safe distance.
I was going to say that she probably ran into Joycelyne and came with her, but she seemed just as surprised to see Joyce as anybody else, so who the Hell knows.
He’s also been.. I don’t know that we’ve seen enough to say he’s been GOOD about Becky’s sexuality, but he’s definitely been chill about it and at least trying.
Might not take it great, but he’s at least the person least likely to pick the church over family.
Gosh I hope he ends up being the chill straight uncle to a gaggle of unrelated queer folks
I mostly agree. I expect this to go, big-picture, long-term, well. Hank has shown openness, learning, and prioritizing important people in his life over dogma.
It could have a pinch higher likelihood for success if Jocelyne was telling Hank in more voluntary, affirmative circumstances, instead of being on the defensive and coming out of the protest, but I am *definitely* not going to fault her for not taking that risk.
Hank may or may not accept all this, but even if it takes a little while I think he’s more likely to be accepting the sooner they’re upfront with him. Feeling like they’ve been lying to him isn’t going to make him more accepting.
Why does Joyce get to be the one who decides that Jocelyne needs saving? Jocelyne is a big girl and is fully capable of making these decisions for herself.
I mean, in theory I agree that Joyce shouldn’t make a decision for Jocelyne that Jocelyne needs saving, but it’s pretty much a wash since two panels earlier Jocelyne basically says that she’s doing precisely the same thing for/to Joyce. Plus, she also basically says in that panel that Joyce (and Priv Priv) are correct that she’s not *really* ready to come out.
The difference is that Joyce had clearly shown that she wasn’t ready to come out yet very recently, while Jocelyne had clearly and explicitly decided that she was all right with coming out in this moment. Becky and Jocelyne trying to protect Joyce was going along with her expressed wishes at the time, while Joyce’s action is going against Jocelyne’s wishes in the moment.
Of course, this being Joyce, she’s not going to realize the massive faux pas that she’s just committed until someone explains it to her (probably either Dorothy or Becky), and she genuinely thinks that she’s doing the right thing in the moment. Doesn’t change the fact that if I was in Jocelyne’s shoes that Joyce doing what she did wouldn’t tick me right off, but I’d at least be able to appreciate that she THOUGHT she was doing the right thing.
Also, the paper with the big photo of her and Dorothy kissing is still right there and her dad still gets the online version. The odds of Joyce making it through this in the closet are really low, even if she kept trying. Though I don’t think she’d accepted that.
OTOH, Jocelyne has started HRT and she’s not likely to be able to stay in the closet much longer either.
I mean that’s definitely not a difference because her, you know, actual words, say that she decided specifically to do so when she was otherwise not ready and would not have chosen that moment absent external factors, in order to protect her sister.
Which is exactly the same decision Joyce made in the last panel.
“Gets to be”…? I mean, she just saw what was about to happen and wanted to protect her. It’s maybe a *little* clueless considering Jocelynne was clearly working up to the Big Confession but I see it like Joyce thought she could take the heat off so she did. Not a ton of people make a point of asking themselves permission to do the things they feel like doing.
I mean she literally says she’s doing it so worse things won’t happen, she means hank finding out about Joyce on the front page of the paper. Neither of them wants to come out, they’re doing it for each other. I think it’s sweet
If this was still season 1, Ethan would come forward and comedically announce he’s also gay, followed by Mike popping in and confessing to fucking your mother. For a nickel.
As a transgender person who had to go through working up the courage to come out to my family and felt like I was forced to earlier than I wanted because of how quickly things were developing on HRT (not exactly the same situation that Jocelyn was in, but close – getting noticeable breasts at 2 months on HRT does tend to accelerate the need to come out), I can genuinely say that if I was in Jocelyne’s shoes, I would see what Joyce did as extremely inconsiderate.
Not MALICIOUS in any way, shape, or form – but if I was already halfway through working through the emotions associated with coming out, having someone jump in and try to help me stay closeted would make me seriously annoyed.
You know there’s nothing actually stopping Joycelyn from also coming out this conversation. She might end up anyways! Hank already heard she has some •something• to confess. All Joyce did was cut her off to change the topic, which is extremely typical sibling assholery.
Also – he has eyes?
“His boy” stands right in front of him in a dress, with an obvious cleavage, probably some makeup invisible due to art style and already acknowledged long hair…. that penny is going to drop rather quickly, I assume.
Hank is blindsided here, not stupid.
Have you seen something I haven’t? I can’t see anything but her top under the jacket. It could be a dress, but we haven’t seen it. Nor is any cleavage obvious.
If she’s wearing a dress, you’d think Hank would have commented on that, not the hair.
So uh are you a trans woman because otherwise this comes off as extremely condescending towards a trans woman who has issues with how Joyce handled this
Howdy, another trans woman here. You didn’t mention you were trans or had any particular personal connection to the strip, someone thought you whiffed a take on the internet, and they responded in a somewhat unkind but fairly pedestrian way. I understand how you feel, perceiving that you’re being shut out from the question you’re particularly able to engage, but what happened on their side of the conversation does not seem like what you think happened. Unless they personally knew you were trans and I’m missing context?
Is everyone here going through the hundreds of comments enough, and paying attention to your comments specifically, to have that on lock? I go through the comments reasonably often these days and I maybe remember seeing your name once or twice, but definitely not knowing that you’re trans.
I get it can feel like other people know something you know very well, and have gone out of your way to say, but is there no plausible chance they just didn’t know?
Yeah, I imagine some of my comments can seem rather pedantic with me repeating the fact that I’m transgender in them a lot – but you really can’t assume that people know everything about you in conversations like this, no matter how long you’ve been around somewhere. So, I repeat myself where needed to give context, knowing that some people will already know that about me.
Don’t think this was the time or place Joycelyn wanted to come out. Based on her words, she might be essentially doing the same thing for Joyce that Joyce is doing for her
given how permuting the case of letters in one’s email address changes the assigned character avatars, is it possible that actual Gravatar lookup is also case sensitive and you’re registered under a different case-permutation than the one you’re using?
Joyce and Dorothy have made the protest, Jocelyne coming out (which may have been their plan all along), and breakups all about themselves. It’s understandable given the goofiness of a new romance but it’s gone well into the place of being serious character flaws.
Jocelyne does not want to speak. Look at her face and words. Panel 1 she looks like she’s bracing to take a verbal beating, and Panel 3 she looks like she’s about to cry, explicitly exposing her vulnerability because she thinks she has to for someone else’s sake. “FINE.” “I’m afraid that…” “I need to…”
Joyce steps up to free her from this obligation and make herself the target of the anger that Jocelyne is expecting. She’s posed like she’s taking a bullet for her, because, well, both her and Jocelyne think Jocelyne is about to take some verbal bullets. Panel 5 is the only one where Jocelyne doesn’t look overtly miserable.
Joyce is acting from love to meet Jocelyne’s inner desire, in a split-moment situation where the two don’t have the time and space to coordinate.
With this agency lens, we’re getting deeply enmeshed in a particularly-internet mentality of rigid permissions, rights and responsibilities without seeing the social flow here. Joyce and Jocelyne are on the same page here. Sometimes taking away agency is good! If someone thinks they have to hurt themselves, and they don’t, and you can save them from that, saving them is often good!
And the two conversations joyce had with people about her sister both very firmly established that she should do whatever it takes to not out her sister to her parents.
Sure, at the time the advice was being given to say that joyce would need to lie to protect her sisters identity, but i can absolutely see how she could take that as more general “your parents knowing about your sister would hurt her, do everything you can to protect her”.
I mean, going by Jocelyne’s dialogue, she’s trying to do exactly the same thing as Joyce, they just equally see each other as the more vulnerable party who needs to be protected by giving up their own secrets.
Neither of them want to or are ready to come out to Hank. Both of them are trying to save their sister: Jocelyne because she sees Joyce, still fully financially dependent on Hank, as more vulnerable, and Joyce I assume because she recognizes that being cis and bi is less vulnerable societally than being trans and bi.
Both of them love eachother so much that they would rather lay on the grenade then let the other get hurt. This isn’t about trying to take away their choice to come out, its about trying to protect eachother.
Neither of them wants to come out to their dad, but they believe that by doing so, they will create enough of a distraction that the other can get away fine.
Joyce is usually a bit selfish, but this one of her instances of pure selflessness to try and protect somebody she cares about. She believes that by doing this she could ruin any relationship she has with her father, but did it anyway to try and save whatever relationship her sister might be able to have, and make sure her sister can be safe.
Joyce has done something like this several times now. Be is to rescue Becky or in the 2 instances in this very arc. She went into a Protest that was being attacked by police, knowing that she could get expelled or even shot, to warn her sister and then to protect Dorothy.
Joyce just isn’t good when it comes to relationships with boys lol.
Yeah, overall Joyce is still very much a good person, she has done way more good then she has done bad. Like her 2 bad actions involving boys don’t drown out all the good things she has done for her friends and loved ones.
Her only real issue is she has a bad track record with Men, none of her very short straight relationships work out well.
As an undiagnosed autistic child my parents would sometimes tell me that I was selfish, and I couldn’t figure out what the heck they were talking about because I genuinely cared about my siblings. I just cared wrong somehow? Always saying the wrong thing and doing the wrong thing.
Same. Bugged me then, bugs me now.
I heard sometime last year that the writers knew that was a thing back in the 90s, but they didn’t think the general audience would go for it. Bah, I say.
So… a series that went to great lengths to explain the concept of a “Slayer” thought that explaining bisexuality would be too complicated?
Willow: I’m in love with this girl now.
Other Person: But you were into that boy before; how can you be a lesbian?
Willow: I’m bisexual. I can be attracted to either.
I suspect the problem was more with the network than the writers. Joss had to threaten to quit the show just to get the network to let them kiss once. But yes, it was very frustrating.
Hell, i remember the days (the 80s, to be precise) when it was considered inaccurate for a girl to call herself ‘gay’ at all. “Gay” was for men, “Lesbian” was for women. And at the time, no one ever even mentioned bisexuals.
Yeah, as a bisexual person, I’m pretty irritated by Joyce here, but I forgive her both because she’s fictional and because she’s the kind of person that thought kissing Dorothy meant she HAD to break up with Joe; eventually I’m sure she’ll get around to the concept of “both”
we already did this song and dance when Becky called Joyce gay in their confrontation! does the comic need to just put a disambiguating parenthetical next to the word every time the word is used generically vs. literally?
“DAD I’M GAY (colloquial) AND I LOVE DOROTHY!” doesn’t scan as well imo
It’s not about Willis directly speaking, he’s writing characters – Joyce might be using ‘gay’ for any number of reasons. She might think or know that her dad doesn’t know the term ‘bi’ for example. She might not have come to terms with it herself. She just heard Becky call her ‘gay’ and is simply repeating the label someone she trusts gave her. Etc.
If Willis put his own direct voice into each character’s speech they would lose all characterisation.
I, too, think that the Black Death should avoid becoming President.
Improvement though it might be, it’s not capable of taking the Constitutionally-mandated oath of office, and so we’d need to open up the amendment process at the worst possible time for it to be eligible.
Poor Becky. Not because of anything Joyce/Dorothy related, but she has to be noticing some uncomfortable parallels with Hank’s first comment being a microaggression about his daughter’s hair (and the subtext re: its relation to ‘womanhood’).
Did he, though? He went along with what they were saying, sure – but he pretty obviously had questions about it and wasn’t really buying what they were selling. But there were bigger issues to go over, and I feel like he more didn’t keep pressing the issue rather than believing what they told him about it.
Now this is gonna get much easier. Just put your arm around your little sister, chuckle, and say “Dad, I am a woman.” She done took the entire difficulty out of it.
I swear this feels exactly like one of those lines that would immediately precede a hard-cut to an opening theme without even a microsecond’s worth of silence in a comedy. I can even hear the delivery in my head.
I 100% believe Jocelyne was coming here to come out to her family (like with Joyce) and Joyce’s completely misunderstood this, making it all about her rather than Jocelyne living her authentic self.
We know why Hank’s here, though, and it’s not because ‘oh hey I hear you have some news and said I should meet you here’. It’s being angry that she was at the protest.
Feel like visiting the university to come out to her sister who’s proven herself open to change and growth to support her queer found family, and coming out to the religious father who she wasn’t expecting to be here (and wouldn’t be here if he hadn’t seen her in his preferred right wing media) are probably things that might come at slightly different points of the journey, could have been something she’d do months if not years down the line. The idea that Jocelyne’s perfectly comfortable with this situation and that Joyce is being rude for interrupting this pre-planned development just seems to ignore a lot of the context.
Context like the current strip that makes it clear the only reason she’s doing this now is to distract from Joyce and Dorothy’s kiss being front page news.
I don’t know if it’s anger, much more likely concern, because he loves his kids and knew at least Jocelyn was in the middle of a protest that ended with tear gas, assault, and arrests.
And since he couldn’t get a hold of said child, while adding in the fear of what nearly happened to Joyce with Toedad?
His going up there to make sure his “son” is actually okay, makes far more sense for Hank.
He hasn’t said a word about concern for Jocelyne’s physical safety. Hasn’t asked if she’s alright.
He’s talked about “falling in with that terrorist crowd” and worries about being gay and about moral and sensible and being raised right. Everything indicates that’s what he’s worried about, not about his kid being hurt in the protest.
I was sure I’d seen him at least mention safety concerns at some point, so went back through the Hank-tagged strips to check. Didn’t find him indicating any such worries.
Maybe I missed something. Maybe he just didn’t find a good opportunity to mention it in all the recent bewilderment. But…
Discussing Jocelyne and the protest, but Hank didn’t manage so much as a “Do you at least know if he got hurt?”
I’m still hoping Hank’ll be reasonable about things (at least inasmuch as possible given his background), but… well, it’s concerning.
I mean, “I want to talk to my kid about this” isn’t necessarily about reaming them out.
He’s starting from a place of set ideas about things, but Hank is also in a vulnerable place of having thrashed a bunch of his preconceived notions of life because they all turned out to be violently dangerous – his former friend, his church (and by extension, probably most of his social life), his wife – these are all platforms on which his understanding of how the world works are built, and they’re all gone.
So now he is probably in a better position to realign his viewpoints – he still has the basic “teachings of Jesus” – love one another, love thy neighbor as thyself, and so forth.
But the cultural additions to that are going to be flimsier in his heart – hate the gays, hate the foreigner, etc.
And Hank can see how these three kids of his (yes, Becky is his kid) are protecting each other, and sacrificing their secrets for each other — and realize they’re scared of HIM.
I expect him to have a heart wrenching mental shift soon.
“I thought we raised him right, but to see him falling in with that terrorist crowd-”
“You’re falling for the propaganda of the insurgents. It betrays the company you keep.”
“He’s just some sort of communist.”
If it’s not about reaming her out, he’s doing a remarkably bad job of showing it. I hope that he can be talked out of it, but doesn’t seem like he’s in the most charitable mindset.
I don’t think Jocelyn was planning to come out to Hank because she didn’t know he was gonna be at the school. She does not look ready to come out at all. She looked ready when coming out to Joyce, psyching herself up a bit, but I don’t think she planned on coming out to Hank at all, or at least, not now. I don’t get how tf people are seeing this a selfish on Joyce’s part
A large part of it is how much mental energy is required to work up the courage to come out, and how having your coming out short circuited the way that is being shown is extremely distressing. Having gone through coming out in circumstances where I felt like circumstances were forcing me to come out sooner than I was ready for myself (noticeable breast growth at 2 months in, when all the documentation that I’d looked at said that wouldn’t happen until 3 months), I can appreciate how much of a blow being interrupted in coming out would be.
Not that I blame Joyce for handling this the way she is, since it’s quite clear that it’s a heat of the moment decision and she genuinely thinks she’s doing the right thing (and with the newspaper in Hank’s hand, the jig is already up in terms of keeping the Joyce/Dorothy relationship quiet) – but it’s still something that would be extremely emotionally jarring for Jocelyne to go through – something that Joyce hasn’t considered at all (both because her autism makes it difficult for her to understand and process those sorts of social cues (an issue that I have trouble with myself) and because you don’t generally think things all the way through in the heat of the moment in situations like this).
I’m not trans, so forgive me if this is insensitive, but it strikes me that if you’re going to do something as public as a contentious protest in an area that you family would have eyes on, this secret being revealed is something you might want to plan for.
Of course, no plan survives contact with the enemy, but I kinda feel like Joycelyne would have planned for this eventuality.
Hard to say, but I think part of the plan was not presenting particularly female for the protest. Certainly not as out as the dress she wore to meet Joyce. The risk was there and I think she wouldn’t have been there if she wasn’t willing to accept it on some level, but it was far from a guarantee.
And as Myra V says, the HRT’s likely to make it inevitable eventually.
The primary reason to do it now though seems to be to shield Joyce – until Joyce screws up that plan.
I think Jocelyne intended to out herself here anyway because of her initial text message. She’s living on her own, graduated, and Hank has divorced Carol. There’s no perfect time and I suspect she figured this was the best of available ones.
Yeah idk I feel like Joyce is actually a lot more vulnerable than Jocelyne here, in terms of life experience and queer experience, and I was kinda hoping Jocelyne would be the one to come out…
But, then again, maybe Hank has more sympathy for Joyce at this moment, as his baby, so idk I guess we’ll find out if this was a good move
Honestly, I think Jocelyne will still come out – but because she’ll need to have the closure from building up the courage to come out to Hank, not because it’ll help protect Joyce. Working up the courage to come out is HARD, and having to leave those emotions dangling after working up the courage to handle them… Yeah, Jocelyne would need to come out to help resolve those emotions. The cat’s already out of the back on Joyce and Dorothy’s relationship, and there’s not much that can spare them whatever blowback may come from Hank finding out – but that still leaves Jocelyne in an emotionally vulnerable position, so I feel like she’ll still come out for her own sake, rather than feeling like she has to in order to protect Joyce.
This panel reminds me of Natasha and Clint fighting over who got to sacrifice themselves for the soul stone in the MCU lol.
This is 100% something Joyce would do though. Yeah she was scared that he dad would find out, but she is infinitely more scared that her sister will face undue wrath because of who she is. I love how much Joyce loves and cares for her sister.
I hope beyond hope that their father has become a better father in the time we haven’t seen him. We know he still has a LONG way to go to be what I would call a actually good person, but if he turns his back on his family here there is no defending the man.
Well, Becky had Hank 97% less snowed than she thought she did and overplayed her hand in yesterday’s comic, but yes that pales in comparison to Joyce physically diving in front of Jocelyne.
This would be the perfect time for Jordan, the mysterious other Brown kid, to show up. And for us to find out his “sin” is that he likes hockey instead of football, which his mother will never accept.
If you want to differentiate between the sports without misnaming them, their actual proper names are Association Football and Gridiron Football. The name “soccer” is actually derived from an abbreviation for “association”, cutting it down to “assoc. football”. “Gridiron” refers to the markings on a gridiron football field having the shape of the grid of metal rods that is used to cook meat over a campfire or charcoal grill, or to hold up pans of food in an oven, which is traditionally called a gridiron.
so to both of you, canada plays the original version of gridiron football (a formoer head of the cfl suggested going to 4 downs and 12yrd 1st downs, and was kicked out and went to the nfl were they adobted the 4 downs and shortened the field instead. there is a enormous uproar up here atm as the cyrrent commish wants to shorten the field to 100 yards, fucking moron.
also my jokes funnier cause you have to explain too mush to use assoc. football
Dug through the archives to confirm… Walky’s in telecommunications; pretty sure I remember a strip in which he mentioned choosing it because it sounded like it involved watching TV, but spent too long looking for Jennifer’s major already.
Unsuccessfully too; the closest I found was https://www.dumbingofage.com/2017/comic/book-7/03-the-thing-i-was-before/funk/ which doesn’t specify (though I think she’s majoring in English?).
Much as I wanted her to tell Hank the truth, Joyce could have given Jocelyne the chance to tell him she’s trans instead of interrupting. But I guess they’re both gonna be telling him this stuff about themselves at the same time.
The entire reason she was about to come out as trans here and now was to provide a smoke screen for Joyce and Dorothy. She clearly wouod not be doing so if she didn’t think she needed to protect Joyce. Joyce is just trying to remove the reason she was doing it.
More annoying– Hank says something like, “Funny thing girls, I’ve met this handsome fellow at a divorced men’s support group. You know how I haven’t . . . . been . . . with anyone for a long time, even when I was still married to your mother. And lately I’ve been having some . . . well, I guess you’d call them “queer thoughts” . . .
See, I would love to find out he’s SUPPORTIVE, but I want him to be at least a little blindsided. I think it would be very good character development opportunity for Hank if he was faced with the knowledge that his kids are afraid to tell him things. It’s not enough that he won’t come to the school with a gun; he has years of reputation with his beliefs that aren’t erased by being tolerant and kind to Becky.
Think of how Joyce was with Becky. She very quickly came around to Becky’s side, but she still had to deal with her biases, and it wasn’t perfectly graceful. That’s what I want with Hank. Maybe he’s considered the possibility that Joyce could be queer, but I don’t want it to be played off as a “haha everyone knew you were lesbians and you were dumb to be worried about this”. Coming out to your religious parents is a huge deal and I’d really like to see it handled without instantly writing it off with a joke.
I agree with you on the level of wanting him to ultimately be supportive. I do not however want him to have already concluded she’s definitely a lesbian, be completely unsurprised, and take all the wind out of the sails of this conversation. It’s kind of the difference between a thoughtful “I thought you might be and I still love you” and “Oh I know. Is that news? anyways so about the communism”
LOL I mean, I wouldn’t be bothered finding out Joyce’s dad is bi, but I would definitely find it contrived/convenient if he figured it out RIGHT NOW and came out LIKE THAT. Like bro you can’t convince me a man of that age won’t have a lot more internalized homophobia to work through before getting to that stage
Yeah I really thought they would give joyce a break for once but nope! I really need to get the patreon back the lack of media literacy is getting on my last nerve.
Yeah like, I know these people can read. The text of the comic is so absurdly clear, exagerrated to an even furthur degree with joyce literally making a motion like she’s diving in front of the bullet.
“Well what if joceylyne really wanted to get hit by the bullet, joyce really should have asked that first.”
I’m kinda reacting the same way as you but with a nagging bit of “at least two people on Team Joyce Ruined Something are IIRC trans themselves” which has me wondering if my cis ass is missing something.
Myra V has already elaborated on why a trans woman (such as her, or myself) might object to how Joyce handled this, but let me summarize by saying that, as a trans woman, I would not be appreciative of my sister taking away my agency in this situation, and I think it’s extremely condescending for people to act as if that can only possibly be a positive thing. No one is saying this is an ideal time or place to come out, but Jocelyne had clearly already made up her mind to come out to Hank – remember that she told Joyce she had something to tell her “before she heard it from dad” – and it’s not like she could boymode for much longer with how much change she was experiencing on HRT. All this does is kick the can down the road and interrupt Jocelyne while she was already processing coming out. I wouldn’t like it if I was her.
I’m also trans, so I think it’s less a trans/cis thing and more an “individual opinions” thing, but I really think phrasing this like Joyce is selfish or doing this TO Jocelyne rather than FOR her really just seems absolutely nonsensical.
Two things can be true! Certainly Joyce’s perspective is that she’s doing this FOR Jocelyne, but that doesn’t mean Jocelyne wouldn’t be valid in feeling that this is something being done TO her.
Jocelyne’s feelings are valid however the fuck she feels. Coming out sucks and I hate it and you’re NEVER finished with it and the fact that society puts us in that position is gross and occasionally spirally bad.
I don’t think that makes it a FACT though. Joyce didn’t do this to make everything about her again (a real accusation from the comments) or because she didn’t care about Jocelyne’s moment. She did this the way you grab someone’s hand when they’re falling. Even if they jumped, that doesn’t make your reaction any less about saving them when you thought they were in danger.
If Jocelyne is frustrated, upset, or any version of “dude I was on my way out please don’t slam the door in my face” that’s fine, but the comments claiming this is a thing Joyce shouldn’t have done, or should have known better than, or in some cases did maliciously (depends on the comment) are ridiculous to me.
Follow-up, I in no way indicated which interpretation of things could be “correct” and people from all sides still piled in assuming agreement or not, you couldn’t pay for this kind of stuff. God bless the internet.
Hank, of course, will never think to follow up on his kid telling him “There’s something I’ve always had to hide from you,” and so this distraction is a great idea.
Lol that’s so right! Wild considering that after this she has approximately 2-4 more coming outs to do. “I’m gay” covers like less than 1/3 of it omg Joyce
i mean she is focused on dad a bit more but the exact label shouldn’t matter, not sure if she’s ever said ‘queer’ herself outside of like queer studies
i mean he could easily see the news paper or she could just make out with dorothy XD; and talk about being a ‘hussy’ dating two ppl on top of the birth control pill now
I wonder how many other times Joyce will interrupt Jocelyne trying to tell Hank she’s trans. I wouldn’t be surprised if the next strip or two is Jocelyne trying to tell him only for Joyce to also reveal that she’s an atheist and likely autistic.
…And on birth control.
…And sexually active.
…And considering a polycule.
…and…?
Seriously, though, Joss… right now is a really difficult time to come out as trans. What with the whole “trans = terrorist” angle the right-wing media is pushing now…
i wonder which ones ppl would consider worse, i feel like some other home schooled kids are also autistic but considering what happened with beckys dad he might be understanding of the atheism thing
Jocelyne is trying to tell Hank under duress to help Joyce, as is obvious from how she is phrasing the lead up to it. Jocelyne is under no obligation to explain herself to a relative she does not trust, even if it’s her dad, she thinks she isn’t the most vulnerable here but I would argue that she still is, most conservative Christians in modern day are modestly more tolerant of gays than they are trans people, and Joyce already has a degree of sympathy from her dad due to being the youngest, and having been kidnapped.
All that said, I feel Jocelyne will still likely be coming out to Hank before the end of this storyline.
Jocelyne’s probably more likely to get a bad reaction from Hank, but Joyce is still more vulnerable, since she’s still very dependent on him.
Jocelyne’s been preparing for awhile. She’s got her own place. Enough income to keep her in ramen. Joyce would be in trouble if Hank really cut her off.
Jocelyne was only going to come out to Hank in order to distract his attention from Joyce, who was the “most vulnerable”. Now that Joyce has outed herself, she might still feel obligated to come out in solidarity, but it’s not like she “wants” to do it.
I think we’ll need more than this week to get there for him. He’s not one to examine his feelings closely (which, fuels the walky trans truthing), it’d take at least a few Big Moments for him to get there
Hey, that’s, like, the one question that actually has a non-dramatic answer (which is, of course, why she and Dorothy reflexively lied about it because why tell the truth when you can lie awkwardly)
(tbf, they were both mainly worried about getting him the hell out of the room in a hurry at that moment, so they probably weren’t thinking very clearly about the pills, which were miles outside their brains right then)
If they didn’t sign the permission slip for sex ed it wouldn’t have helped. Public school sex ed would have maybe a 50% chance of having helped depending on what was actually taught.
This but without a tone of contempt, thank you for saving your sister from what could be a very dangerous coming out conversation that she clearly hadn’t wanted to be this way, today, but was looking to do now to protect you.
It baffle as me how so many people are, unlike you, taking that position completely un-ironically. The internet seems to be the home of a unique specimen of person that takes almost every single, solitary human interaction in the absolute worst faith possible, levels of bad faith I wasn’t even aware existed.
It’s the “so you hate waffles?” meme but on broad scale.
A lot of people seem to have decided that ever since Joyce kissed Dorothy while dating Joe, she’s evil and everything she does is deliberately designed to hurt people.
Jocelyne – trying to come out in the most calm and controlled manner that she can in the moment to try and protect Joyce and Dorothy.
Joyce jumps in and comes out in the most hilarious and over the top way possible to try to protect Jocelyne.
As much of a fools errand as protecting Joyce and Dorothy’s relationship at this point is, this is exactly how I expected Jocelyne to try to handle it – come out before speculation goes any further and focus the conversation on her being transgender for at least the moment. Talk things through with Hank as a mature adult.
And Joyce handled things in perhaps the most Becky way possible by jumping in and coming out to try to protect Jocelyne which… Great sentiment, but I know if I had worked up the courage to come out to someone important to me and someone else tried to block that from happening, I would be extremely put out. For better or for worse, I’d have already made my decision, and trying to delay it further after that would just make things worse for me. Just like you don’t out someone who is transgender against their will, you do not stop a transgender person from coming out after they’ve decided that it’s time to come out – even if the circumstances behind that decision being made aren’t ideal.
So, I’m guessing we’ll have Jocelyne coming out tomorrow, then see Hank’s initial reaction to all this being dropped in his lap shortly afterwards. It’ll be… an interesting few strips to watch, one way or the other.
nah, the next few strips are gonna cut to ken going to get campus security, and when the get back to the browns they are at galassos with out hank, all sadly discussing what they do next, with no explaination or reveal as to what happened next here.
God I don’t know if I’m just like, grumpy, or what, but literally NONE of this is landing for me.
I think it’s because nothing is allowed to breathe, or have stakes? I don’t care about DoJo’s relationship being exposed because it’s a few hours old.
The stakes of the relationship itself were deflated, or at least postponed- Joe is doing his Joe thing and nobody gives a damn about Walky.
Jocelyn is ALREADY estranged from her parents.
Joyce’s dad has already lost moral and emotional respect from Joyce and the readers. I’m sure she’ll be sad if her dad is a bigot, but do WE give a damn? I don’t. And it’s not like he’s going to.kidnap her, too.
The Becky thing… also just didn’t land with me.
Straight-up, the only strips I’ve actually.enjoyed lately have been Walky and Jennifer.
The stakes here are extensions of old stakes, like Dorothy’s ongoing mental health / self-worth crisis and the (non-romantic) relationships Joyce has with people around her. That is where the buildup came.
The most fundamental question with this arc is less “How will this very new relationship chart is course” and more “Who are Joyce and Dorothy as people? How will they live their lives in relation to other people?”
Today’s strip fits very well into that. We previously established that part of Joyce is her willingness to selfishly hurt people while pursuing her repressed desire. Now we fill out the picture by saying that, even now, even when she’s messing up and failing and dropping the ball, she’s still going to put herself on the line to save her sister. Joyce’s inner light is even more solid and real now, because it still shines in the challenging seas of her temptations and mistakes. That’s stakes.
There’s some other things in your comment I don’t get. Hank has shown remarkable willingness to change and put his loved ones over dogma. We may yet see Jocelyn have a deeper and more authentic relationship with him.
And he has gained my respect (I mean in general, not specifically in relation to the current arc, which hasn’t yet progressed enough for him to have the opportunity for the hard decisions). I’m at the edge of my seat to see him take a shot at the home run ball again, and I think he’ll hit it.
I’m currently having another webcomic I read not landing for me (OOTS). I get it. But I hope this helps explain why some of us are engaged.
As it happens, when I commented before on how uninteresting DoJo seemed to me, it was largely because the relationship wasn’t just a few hours old. Only the kissing, the cheating, and the realization that they were in a relationship were new (their friendship had gradually transformed into love some time before), and for a little while it seemed like nothing was really happening (or, rather, the same bit of almost something, again and again). Besides, the cheating’d caused me to disengage from their relationship.
But stuff’s happening again now, so I’m content (though I am hoping to revisit the maybe-poly thing). I won’t bother commenting on that current stuff, because Ado did it better.
I don’t hate any of this… I just think everyone would have felt better if we had done a hard turn away onto something else before Dad came to town.
Ugh, but then the inciting newspaper cover doesn’t make sense…
I don’t know, I’m just really wishing I was watching Walky. Amber and Sal be sassy to each other. Also Malaya getting on Sal’s nerves. Then come back to all this in a week or two.
Joyce and Jocelyne then proceed to try and throw themselves in front of each other so hard, they end up creating a mini tornado from the constant spinning.
On a personal note, anybody know how to rewind the comments back to earlier ones? I made one about 11:30PM (my time) last night, and it’s been completely swallowed up since then. It was a point that no one else seems to have thought of, and I’d like to see if anyone reacted?
Just bringing up Hank here–
Does it occur to anyone that this poor bastard has had a LOT of shocks to his world-view the past few months (strip-time)? He adopted Becky the lesbian, and though his reaction to that was better than his wife’s, it still obviously caused him some doubts. Left his wife, left that church, that must have taken some mental somersaults. And now his daughter. And I’m positive that Jocelyne won’t wait to reveal her new self.
So what’s the worst case scenario here– Blame it all on Becky and disown all three of them or heart attack/complete mental breakdown? Or both?
I’m guessing that it’s going to be a, “Huh… Pizza. Yes, pizza would be good right now,” sort of shocked nonresponse. It’s definitely going to take him some time to process through all of this – and while I think that he’s going to come through the shock a better person for it, it’s still going to take a while for him to process all of this shocking new information.
Of course, there’s still the possibility that we cut away to something else before we see his reaction, which… well, that wouldn’t be MY preferred way of finishing out this particular segment of the story. Of course, it looks like we also still have about a month of updates to go through for this chapter, so…
Worst for Hank is some kind of angry outburst dismissing it as not real. He wouldn’t hold to it for long though, he does indeed place his children first over everything, even his wife.
“Bisexual people can call themselves gay if they want to” feels like a pretty basic concept that I didn’t feel needed explaining but this comment section is always full of surprises.
Some bi folks just want a little bi pride I suppose, though there could be some of that not so prideful “get in your assigned box” toxic stuff at play as well I suppose suppose.
It’s definitely one of those things where different people can obviously call and refer to themselves however they wish and they should be respected. Some bi people will refer to themselves as a gay disaster or something similar as a joke or a meme, others will be uncomfortable with someone else calling them that, both can exist. Some people just don’t get it.
Never mind, I just read through several comments threats above this, and the answer is that Joyce is an inconsiderate asshole who is belittling her sister.
Even though Jocelyn is clearly uncomfortable coming out and is just trying to protect Joyce. Like they’re both trying to protect each other. It’s incredibly sweet and wholesome.
Joyce isn’t like clear on queer stuff, she’s newly out. But she probably knows, at least, that in the eyes of a lot of religious people being gay is bad but being trans is worse.
Heck look at current events! If my sisters had been so willing to jump on a grenade for me, I would have been touched. Luckily my mother is cool with me being trans. Unluckily my sisters suck ass.
Can we please knock the fuck off with acting like people (including several trans women) who have issues with how Joyce handled this are supposedly calling Joyce evil or unforgivable or whatever?
Heck, I started off my criticism about how Joyce handled this by stating that this was the most hilarious way she could have done this. And I honestly do not believe that she means anything wrong by doing it this way – but the fact of the matter is that she interrupted Jocelyne at exactly the wrong moment emotionally. Does Jocelyne want to be coming out in these circumstances? No. But now that she is coming out, interrupting her just makes things worse and not better.
Of course, if Jocelyne had thought things through, she’d have realized that the distraction wouldn’t work – or at least for long – and Joyce would have realized that interrupting Jocelyne in the middle of her trying to come out is about the worst thing she could have done. But, as usual, she did the wrong thing for VERY MUCH the right reasons, and as an outside observer, I can appreciate and love her for that, even while pointing out that that’s REALLY NOT the right way to handle that situation.
I kinda get the impression that there are commenters who’d benefit from applying Hanlon’s razor: “Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.”
…I really hope that didn’t come across the wrong way. If it did, I’d like to refer again to the above adage and state that (today, at least) I’m stupid, not malicious.
I wonder if Hank will get the right message from this- both of his daughters were keeping a secret, and each was so fearful of what he’d do or say to the other one that she was willing to put her own secret on the line to protect her sister. His children are afraid of him because of how he acts towards others. Is that the kind of guy he wants to be?
Old habits die hard. He might genuinely not know what to think and have to grapple with something hard. We can hope for the best but it’s not easy to have your entire worldview overturned by your daughter and remind you of all these little niggling questions you’ve had for a while that you silenced.
…this is ridiculous. There is no indication here that Joyce can hear anything Jocelyn is saying before she leaps through the air to get between her and their father. She’s been trying to protect Jocelyn from this very scenario and if she spotted her and Hank from more than 10 feet away it’s likely she just immediately ran to protect her sister. There would be nothing to be inconsiderate about because there would be no way for Joyce to know that Jocelyn was preparing to come out to Hank that doesn’t involve Joyce hesitating to protect her sister with a panicked, full-run intervention.
I mean I think she probably was running up to Joss but not going to jump in front of her. But then she heard Joss’s dialogue in panel 4 and reacted. (I mean, that’s just one panel before she leaps in front of her sister, so wouldn’t it be stranger if she WEREN’T in hearing range at that point?)
Everything except the last sentence is speculation. As for that last sentence, Joyce is already trying to keep Jocelyn’s transgender status a secret, especially to protect her from family consequences. I don’t see why she’d need to hear anything before feeling the need to physically and vocally impose herself between Jocelyn and Hank. Either way, the point is that so many folks here are getting up on their high horse with dead certain harsh judgment over what they have no way to be certain about. My own feelings on this is that I’ve been reading way too many trauma responses and reflex validations ever since we started living with the fallout of Joyce kissing Dorothy.
also we know they texted about dad being there looking for jocyline, joceline may have mentioned she was gonna tell dad, and was scared or nervous, or she told joyce she was gonna tell dad to distract him from joyrothy so thye’d have time to sort shit out.
“There’s something about me I’ve always felt I have to hide from you” is a great line to start a coming-out conversation with. I wonder if she’s been rehearsing this in her head.
I don’t know how I feel about this. On the one hand Joyce is outing herself to protect Jocelyne while Jocelyne was about to do the same to protect Joyce. On the other hand Joyce jumping in mid-speech might end up doing more harm than good.
I think that if I were coming out to protect someone, and they stopped me because they didn’t want that protection, I’d have mixed feelings about it. But if they didn’t want that protection and didn’t stop me, I’d have more bad feelings than good.
Also, I wouldn’t like someone coming out to protect me without asking if I was okay with it. In Joyce’s place, I’d feel like Jocelyne put me in a really awkward position.
It’s a very Joyce way of handling the situation. Her heart’s definitely in the right place – and with everything we know as the audience, Jocelyne trying to protect Joyce isn’t going to do any good (though it would still lift a huge weight off her shoulders, even if Hank didn’t take her coming out well) – so Joyce isn’t actually sacrificing much in order to save Jocelyne.
That said… Literally jumping in in the middle of Jocelyne coming out in order to come out herself, as hilarious as the imagery is, isn’t doing Jocelyne any favors. So, Joyce’s heart is in the right place, but it’s just making something Jocelyne will have to do sooner or later harder for her to do.
Humorously enough, this is a situation that perfectly calls for a sit down in a private area around a shared pizza. Everyone needs to get on the same page with each other and talk Hank through what’s going on (which we could definitely get at least a few fun strips from – especially Jocelyne reacting to all the shenanigans that Joyce and Dorothy had gotten into – along with some drama with Becky working through the issues she’s been having recently). Personally, I think that would be a great way to end out this particular arc, with Hank wanting to go spend some quality time with his daughter to learn how much he’s missed out with with her, and sternly telling Joyce and Dorothy to go make ACTUAL amends with Joe and Walky instead of leaving them twisting the way they did.
But, that’s not necessarily the most dramatic way to end the story, and this really isn’t my comic to write.
Yeahhh, I feel like Joyce is kinda denying Joss some closure here. Joyce’s queer story is brand new, and she deserves to explore it more. For Joss, though, coming out is just something that’s bound to happen at this point, and delaying the inevitable isn’t really doing Joss any favors.
Like she was clearly already intending to come out to Hank at some point and this really just put her on the spot and accelerated the timetable. Joyce obviously isn’t being malicious here but I don’t think this actually helps Jocelyne.
I wonder if Jocelyne has done any voice training? Is there any way Hank might be clued into what she was about to say besides the fact that her hair is growing out?
I’d assumed shanunu was implying that, as she was outing herself, Jocelyne might have been speaking in a female register in panel 4 (and therefore Joyce’s questionable intervention might’ve been too late anyway).
Okay, this was funny. Being funny is one of the hardest things in the world. It is probably impossible to do it successfully on a daily basis. So, when Willis strikes gold, it is only fair to say so.
Hank MIGHT stay cool about Joyce being gay. I doub it, but he might. But if he finds out she ALSO is considering staying in a relationship with Joe at the same time, I expect he might crash out and leave.
I think he’ll be startled with it but okay. Like, he’s coming around on gay people. He was expecting Jocelyne to be gay and was prepared for that, and he basically adopted Becky. He’s not ENTIRELY free of homophobia but I think he will have more of a problem with the polyamory – and even MORE of a problem with Joyce being an atheist.
I kinda doubt she’s really considering it, I think she’s avoiding considering it because considering it means choosing to hurt Joe more, because I suspect Joyce is pretty monogamous by nature.
I mean, she already lopped the head off of Dotty and Walky’s relationship while cackling about how she’s “won”. It’d be pretty shitty to then talk to Dorothy and be like “Hey, thanks for dropping Walky for me, but is it okay if I keep *my* boyfriend?”
Yeah, but “pretty shitty” has kind of been Joyce’s thing through this whole cheating debacle. She’s pretty clearly still interested in Joe, at least physically. She was definitely hesitant about the “ex-” part when Dorothy corrected her earlier.
I doubt she’s decided to keep him yet, but I’d be even more surprised if she’s decided not to.
My prediction for his reaction is going to be: surprisingly ok in some ways, but maybe also convinced this is a phase since Joyce has “always been boy crazy”, and because I’ve noticed people on Hank’s side of the political spectrum tend to not get how bisexuality works
I think in this context, Hank will probably have a bad initial reaction, probably more to the amount of secrets than anything, maybe a little the being at a protest that got teargassed part, and will probably leave on poor terms, but I do think he’ll come back around.
He was able to accept queerness at least a little for Becky, he’ll come around for his own kids. He’ll probably just be hurt that he no longer feels like he knows them.
I think it’s at LEAST 50/50 that his initial reaction will be negative for religious reasons. For the same reason that his first reaction to the birth control was “Do you have anything to tell me?” before it relaxed back to “I guess it’s none of my business.”
Remember when Jocelyne asked Joyce how she got so “hip with the transes” and she said, “Like, a day ago, you came at a good time”? I feel like Hank’s a few days before. He’s (1) between churches and there on a Sunday, (2) divorced, for a reason that is partially religious, and separated from the more rigid zealous person, (3) in a transition period of his life and wanting to be a better dad.
I feel like he COULD be accepting, but hasn’t for a moment considered if there’s anything wrong with being gay or trans outside of what his old church said. And so having this sprung on him is going to mean he has to process on the fly.
I feel that, with Hank, we might get something like, “I don’t really understand a lot about this, but I want to, and I want to be in your life.” Whereas Carol showed up to dump Joyce’s stuff off and argue with her when she tried to open up, Hank is here because he wants to be a good dad. And at his core, despite everything else, to him being a good dad is being there for his kids.
Now, let’s just see how badly Hank gets crucified in the days/weeks it takes for this strip to drip-feed, ‘cause I don’t expect Hank’s immediate reaction to having this literally thrust in his face to be, “OK, well, I expected that too, surprised it took you so long.”
Yeah, I agree with you there. I mean, I HOPE he’ll take it well – but I expect that he’s going to need to be walked through what all of this means and really get the full stories from at least Joyce and Jocelyne before he’s ready to be OK with everything. I don’t expect him to blow up at them – but I do think he’ll have some stern words for both Joyce and Jocelyne (though maybe with a promise that he’ll try to be more approachable as their father going forward so they feel like they CAN trust him with these sorts of things) and most likely will end things out with a, “You’ve given me a lot to think about, and it’ll take me some time to work through all this,” statement to them.
… Though, now that I think about it… Can you imagine the shenanigans if he went to Leslie to try to learn about the whole LGBT thing? Or (since this sort of thing does happen every now and again) actually signed up to take the Gender Studies course himself?
Fun fact. I think both my kids might be gay and haven’t worked up the nerve or are ready to tell me. That’s fine. My plan is to do the acceptance and love and hugs thing they will need in that moment.
Then I make the “Hi Gay, I’m Dad!” joke, because they would expect it.
I wonder if he’s not going to believe her because he think she’s just trying to provide cover. Then any further confessions from anyone involved will be assumed to be one upping attempts at covering for the other.
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that last one would make a great book 16 title :0
but for reals tho
DAMN. YOU. WILLIS.
The alt-text has a better title, but it should be, “Gay, I’m Dad and I too love Dorothy.
Who was asking about the state of Hank’s heart?
No, Joyce’s quote without the initial “Dad”, works best I think.
Book 16: I’m Gay and I Love Dorothy!
Also, Joycy, we ALL love Dotty… ;D
I did, but it seems later comments swallowed mine up. And will probably swallow this one.
That IS a perfect book title!
Joyce: throwing a grenade into the closet, then falling on the grenade for Jocelyne, in the battle of who can come out the hardest
It’s like in pro wrestling, where the person building up an elaborate table structure is always the one that ends up being put through it
Joyce: “I’m gay!”
Jocelyne: “I’m trans!”
Dorothy: “I’m in love with your daughter! The shorter one!”
Becky: “I’m also in love with your shorter daughter, and find this all terribly depressing!”
Hank: “And you, young man? Do you have anything you want to confess?”
Ken: “I just want my newspaper back.”
Ken, part two: “This copy seems to be the last one in existence.”
Ah, so close… and we would have gotten away with it, too, if it weren’t for you meddling Ken!
His name is Balrog, geez.
Hey, put some respect on Blanka’s name.
Somehow, I feel that Ken’s paper should be tagged instead of Ken.
he is running away on the left side of bcakground of the 5th panel
But Dad has his newspaper…
Joyce: …Oh, and I finally figured out how to take pills!
Hank: WHAT!?
Joyce: Also Joe and I are still dating.
Dorothy: What?
Joyce: We’ll talk about it later.
I’ve been reading this comic for quite a while, but this comment made me snort so hard I had to comment for the first time – bravo!
You missed one:
Joyce: “I’m an atheist!”
Have her drop that one right after Becky talking about her feelings for Joyce.
Dorothy is delayed arriving, because she’s finishing her Google Slides presentation about how Dorothy is gay and loves Joyce.
(dorothy always so supportive of joyce)
Faz is helping with the charts.
Nah, she’s working on her presentation about the Kinsey scale.
Dorothy has, after admitting it to herself, sat down and worked out her actual current Kinsey score to five decimals.
The reason it’s taking her so long is that she made another “bi” pun, and had to recalculate the numbers and update all the slides.
I dunno, with that trajectory, maybe Dorothy tossed Joyce? “I cannot jump the distance, you’ll have to toss me!”
No I don’t know why Joyce is Gimli all of a sudden.
Is it because of the beard? But Joe isn’t in this one.
all queer women are able to perform the fastball special for their girlfriends when the time is right
All I can think of is the episode of Danny Phantom where everyone is lining up to knock out the person in front of them so THEY can put on the flawed exoskeleton to go fight the big baddie at the cost of their own life…before being knocked out by the person behind THEM…
Everybody sacrificing themselves for everybody else. Beautiful. Poetic.
This post reads very differently if your eyes accidentally skip over the word “out,” as mine did.
The ultimate Sllpshine?
I’m picturing a scene like something out of Airplane! where people just keep running up with ever more shocking and less relevant confessions
Ken in the last panel.
“Well, my work here is done. Apparently.”
“These white people are nuts”
“The white people nonsense is getting out of hand.”
– title, 2030 US History Textbook
An optimist, I see. Good on ya, mate.
A wildly reductive and contextually deficient, yet not inaccurate summary for the last approximately 500 years of global history.
Only 500?
I’m not sure the modern concept of “whiteness” goes back much farther than that. Before that I think it’s technically Catholic nonsense.
…And before that, Roman nonsense.
The romans dont seem to have had all that much pigmentation-based racism.
At least thats what “woke” history youtubers tell me.
The had dark(ish)-skinned generals, caesars and patricians after all.
They where of course helluva racist against anybody not a roman citizen – including folks who lived under the empire for dozens of decades.
Last word was meant to be “generations”….
That’s why it wasn’t “white” nonsense back then. Just another variation on imperialist nonsense, which goes back basically everywhere as far as we can trace. At least as far as people had the technology and organizational abilities to control other groups of people.
Also before the last 500 years or so, Europe was nowhere near so dominant on the world stage, so their nonsense was largely contained. People elsewhere had to deal with Arabic nonsense or Mongol nonsense or just their own local nonsense.
Support your friendly local nonsense, everyone! Don’t let it get globalized!
I mean, the local nonsense isn’t always friendly.
Totally, I was just making a joking reference to people supporting friendly local stores. It was meant to be kinda ironic humor, not historically accurate.
And even the evil imperialists weren’t as bad back then, at least in the racial sense. There’s portraits from the 1600s showing free black men just walking around London in finery. Not saying there was no racism whatsoever, but it wasn’t until cotton and colonization made slavery so profitable that it became useful to find an easily distinguished subset of humanity to be subjugated on industrial scale.
he’s going for campus security, the girls form the front page of the paper are there, and their dad stole his newspaper.
Ken, is that you leaving the scene?
(yeah totes sensible hurry get out of here run while you still can fly you fool)
In his place I’d be setting a new speed record power walking away from these people and their drama. Depending on mood and schedule, I might or might not stop to watch once I reached a safe distance.
Becky, on several levels: “What the fuck.”
Has… has Joyce been tailing her father and Becky this whole time?
I was going to say that she probably ran into Joycelyne and came with her, but she seemed just as surprised to see Joyce as anybody else, so who the Hell knows.
Joyce texted Jocelyn, Jocelyn probably texted back that she was about to confront their father in the lobby or something.
FAMILY IMPLOSION IMMINENT
Jocelyne has graduated college, lives on their own, and knows Hank has left Carol and the Demon Church.
So, now is probably the best time to stop being closeted if such a thing as a best time exists.
He’s also been.. I don’t know that we’ve seen enough to say he’s been GOOD about Becky’s sexuality, but he’s definitely been chill about it and at least trying.
Might not take it great, but he’s at least the person least likely to pick the church over family.
Gosh I hope he ends up being the chill straight uncle to a gaggle of unrelated queer folks
I mostly agree. I expect this to go, big-picture, long-term, well. Hank has shown openness, learning, and prioritizing important people in his life over dogma.
It could have a pinch higher likelihood for success if Jocelyne was telling Hank in more voluntary, affirmative circumstances, instead of being on the defensive and coming out of the protest, but I am *definitely* not going to fault her for not taking that risk.
Hank may or may not accept all this, but even if it takes a little while I think he’s more likely to be accepting the sooner they’re upfront with him. Feeling like they’ve been lying to him isn’t going to make him more accepting.
Obviously everyone has their own pace for coming out to their loved ones but Joyce is really stepping on Jocelyne’s moment here, huh.
No joyce is coming out in order to save her sister who is clearly not ready to I don’t see how you can frame this as joyce being “selfish”
Why does Joyce get to be the one who decides that Jocelyne needs saving? Jocelyne is a big girl and is fully capable of making these decisions for herself.
SHE’LL SAVE EVERY ONE OF US
STAND FOR EVERY ONE OF US
JULIA GRAY AHHHHHHH
SAVIOR OF THE UNIVERSE
QUEEN OF THE IMPOSSIBLE
Both you and StClair deserve all the internets for derailing this thread with that epic reference. Flying Spaghetti Monster bless you all.
Because they’re sisters. Running interference with the ‘rents is what siblings do. Hell, Becky was doing it, too, for both of them.
Joyce decided, in the heat of the moment, to come out herself in an attempt to save her sister.
Was the the right choice? Should she have MADE that choice? I dunno, seems like a lot of pros & cons with with what could happen.
Yeah, because this whole strip has been FULL of characters making good, totally non-dramatic decisions.
I mean, in theory I agree that Joyce shouldn’t make a decision for Jocelyne that Jocelyne needs saving, but it’s pretty much a wash since two panels earlier Jocelyne basically says that she’s doing precisely the same thing for/to Joyce. Plus, she also basically says in that panel that Joyce (and Priv Priv) are correct that she’s not *really* ready to come out.
The difference is that Joyce had clearly shown that she wasn’t ready to come out yet very recently, while Jocelyne had clearly and explicitly decided that she was all right with coming out in this moment. Becky and Jocelyne trying to protect Joyce was going along with her expressed wishes at the time, while Joyce’s action is going against Jocelyne’s wishes in the moment.
Of course, this being Joyce, she’s not going to realize the massive faux pas that she’s just committed until someone explains it to her (probably either Dorothy or Becky), and she genuinely thinks that she’s doing the right thing in the moment. Doesn’t change the fact that if I was in Jocelyne’s shoes that Joyce doing what she did wouldn’t tick me right off, but I’d at least be able to appreciate that she THOUGHT she was doing the right thing.
Also, the paper with the big photo of her and Dorothy kissing is still right there and her dad still gets the online version. The odds of Joyce making it through this in the closet are really low, even if she kept trying. Though I don’t think she’d accepted that.
OTOH, Jocelyne has started HRT and she’s not likely to be able to stay in the closet much longer either.
I mean that’s definitely not a difference because her, you know, actual words, say that she decided specifically to do so when she was otherwise not ready and would not have chosen that moment absent external factors, in order to protect her sister.
Which is exactly the same decision Joyce made in the last panel.
But Jocelyne only made that decision to protect Joyce. The situation is perfectly symmetrical, Joyce just was faster.
“Gets to be”…? I mean, she just saw what was about to happen and wanted to protect her. It’s maybe a *little* clueless considering Jocelynne was clearly working up to the Big Confession but I see it like Joyce thought she could take the heat off so she did. Not a ton of people make a point of asking themselves permission to do the things they feel like doing.
I actually 100% disagree that she’s not ready and this whole thing was about her coming out to Joyce and Hank.
I think they meant unintentionally ruining Jocelyne’s coming out while trying to help, which is technically a kind of selfish selflessness.
She’s diving in front of her like she’s Secret Service taking a bullet for the president
She’d practiced that move for Dorothy and was afraid she’d never get to actually use it.
Nah bc Jocelyne was just doing the same thing for Joyce. Its symmetrical
I mean she literally says she’s doing it so worse things won’t happen, she means hank finding out about Joyce on the front page of the paper. Neither of them wants to come out, they’re doing it for each other. I think it’s sweet
Wait’ll you see the long line of people, completely unrelated to any one here, surging forward to announce their inmost secrets.
“I’m D B Cooper!”
“I’m Spartacus!”
“I’m an alien hiding out on Earth from galactic bounty hunters!”
“I’m Batman, and so’s my wife!”
If this was still season 1, Ethan would come forward and comedically announce he’s also gay, followed by Mike popping in and confessing to fucking your mother. For a nickel.
Dunno how diff it’d be if jocelyne had her phone on her and texted joyce back “yeah i’m gonna come out to dad now, no worries” or so
genuinley impressive level of reaching to come up with a way to make joyce seem inconsiderate in this scene. I’m honestly impressed
As a transgender person who had to go through working up the courage to come out to my family and felt like I was forced to earlier than I wanted because of how quickly things were developing on HRT (not exactly the same situation that Jocelyn was in, but close – getting noticeable breasts at 2 months on HRT does tend to accelerate the need to come out), I can genuinely say that if I was in Jocelyne’s shoes, I would see what Joyce did as extremely inconsiderate.
Not MALICIOUS in any way, shape, or form – but if I was already halfway through working through the emotions associated with coming out, having someone jump in and try to help me stay closeted would make me seriously annoyed.
You know there’s nothing actually stopping Joycelyn from also coming out this conversation. She might end up anyways! Hank already heard she has some •something• to confess. All Joyce did was cut her off to change the topic, which is extremely typical sibling assholery.
Also – he has eyes?
“His boy” stands right in front of him in a dress, with an obvious cleavage, probably some makeup invisible due to art style and already acknowledged long hair…. that penny is going to drop rather quickly, I assume.
Hank is blindsided here, not stupid.
Have you seen something I haven’t? I can’t see anything but her top under the jacket. It could be a dress, but we haven’t seen it. Nor is any cleavage obvious.
If she’s wearing a dress, you’d think Hank would have commented on that, not the hair.
Yeah exactly lol.
So uh are you a trans woman because otherwise this comes off as extremely condescending towards a trans woman who has issues with how Joyce handled this
Howdy, another trans woman here. You didn’t mention you were trans or had any particular personal connection to the strip, someone thought you whiffed a take on the internet, and they responded in a somewhat unkind but fairly pedestrian way. I understand how you feel, perceiving that you’re being shut out from the question you’re particularly able to engage, but what happened on their side of the conversation does not seem like what you think happened. Unless they personally knew you were trans and I’m missing context?
I’ve made it very very clear multiple times in this comment section, where I am a regular, that I am a trans woman.
Is everyone here going through the hundreds of comments enough, and paying attention to your comments specifically, to have that on lock? I go through the comments reasonably often these days and I maybe remember seeing your name once or twice, but definitely not knowing that you’re trans.
I get it can feel like other people know something you know very well, and have gone out of your way to say, but is there no plausible chance they just didn’t know?
Yeah, I imagine some of my comments can seem rather pedantic with me repeating the fact that I’m transgender in them a lot – but you really can’t assume that people know everything about you in conversations like this, no matter how long you’ve been around somewhere. So, I repeat myself where needed to give context, knowing that some people will already know that about me.
Yes i’m a trans woman.
Don’t think this was the time or place Joycelyn wanted to come out. Based on her words, she might be essentially doing the same thing for Joyce that Joyce is doing for her
Joyce has always gotta be the most
Wally Darling approves
Say what you want about joyce and people….have but she always there when her loved ones need her.
Oof, she pretty took away her agency there. Joyce, let her speak!
Yeah, it rubs me the wrong way. Jocelyne is allowed to make these decisions for herself.
I think they meant unintentionally ruining Jocelyne’s coming out while trying to help, which is technically a kind of selfish selflessness.
Oh I think it responded to the wrong reply, and it continues to refuse to use my Akko Gravatar, which is pretty annoying
given how permuting the case of letters in one’s email address changes the assigned character avatars, is it possible that actual Gravatar lookup is also case sensitive and you’re registered under a different case-permutation than the one you’re using?
Joyce and Dorothy have made the protest, Jocelyne coming out (which may have been their plan all along), and breakups all about themselves. It’s understandable given the goofiness of a new romance but it’s gone well into the place of being serious character flaws.
Jocelyne does not want to speak. Look at her face and words. Panel 1 she looks like she’s bracing to take a verbal beating, and Panel 3 she looks like she’s about to cry, explicitly exposing her vulnerability because she thinks she has to for someone else’s sake. “FINE.” “I’m afraid that…” “I need to…”
Joyce steps up to free her from this obligation and make herself the target of the anger that Jocelyne is expecting. She’s posed like she’s taking a bullet for her, because, well, both her and Jocelyne think Jocelyne is about to take some verbal bullets. Panel 5 is the only one where Jocelyne doesn’t look overtly miserable.
Joyce is acting from love to meet Jocelyne’s inner desire, in a split-moment situation where the two don’t have the time and space to coordinate.
With this agency lens, we’re getting deeply enmeshed in a particularly-internet mentality of rigid permissions, rights and responsibilities without seeing the social flow here. Joyce and Jocelyne are on the same page here. Sometimes taking away agency is good! If someone thinks they have to hurt themselves, and they don’t, and you can save them from that, saving them is often good!
Thank you, I think I felt a lot of the same stuff but you’ve said it better than I could.
And the two conversations joyce had with people about her sister both very firmly established that she should do whatever it takes to not out her sister to her parents.
Sure, at the time the advice was being given to say that joyce would need to lie to protect her sisters identity, but i can absolutely see how she could take that as more general “your parents knowing about your sister would hurt her, do everything you can to protect her”.
Thank you for restoring my faith in the comments section.
Sisters gotta one-up each other.
I mean, going by Jocelyne’s dialogue, she’s trying to do exactly the same thing as Joyce, they just equally see each other as the more vulnerable party who needs to be protected by giving up their own secrets.
Yeah, exactly.
But if you’re going to be logical about that how will people be able to complain that Joyce is being a horrible person?
This is what’s happening, yeah.
Neither of them want to or are ready to come out to Hank. Both of them are trying to save their sister: Jocelyne because she sees Joyce, still fully financially dependent on Hank, as more vulnerable, and Joyce I assume because she recognizes that being cis and bi is less vulnerable societally than being trans and bi.
“You’re not coming out to dad, *I’m* coming out to dad!”
Both of them love eachother so much that they would rather lay on the grenade then let the other get hurt. This isn’t about trying to take away their choice to come out, its about trying to protect eachother.
Neither of them wants to come out to their dad, but they believe that by doing so, they will create enough of a distraction that the other can get away fine.
Joyce is usually a bit selfish, but this one of her instances of pure selflessness to try and protect somebody she cares about. She believes that by doing this she could ruin any relationship she has with her father, but did it anyway to try and save whatever relationship her sister might be able to have, and make sure her sister can be safe.
Joyce has done something like this several times now. Be is to rescue Becky or in the 2 instances in this very arc. She went into a Protest that was being attacked by police, knowing that she could get expelled or even shot, to warn her sister and then to protect Dorothy.
Joyce just isn’t good when it comes to relationships with boys lol.
Yeah im getting really frustrated by the “joyce bad” regardless of context yes the cheating was bad this is not.
Yeah, overall Joyce is still very much a good person, she has done way more good then she has done bad. Like her 2 bad actions involving boys don’t drown out all the good things she has done for her friends and loved ones.
Her only real issue is she has a bad track record with Men, none of her very short straight relationships work out well.
As an undiagnosed autistic child my parents would sometimes tell me that I was selfish, and I couldn’t figure out what the heck they were talking about because I genuinely cared about my siblings. I just cared wrong somehow? Always saying the wrong thing and doing the wrong thing.
it’s a very joyce like thing to do but joyce is prolly assuming the worst from her dad after hearing what her mom had to say about trans ppl
Also, we need to work “bisexual” into Joyce’s vocabulary but baby steps.
Bisexual people can call themselves gay. It’s fine.
It’s a syncdoche, like in New York.
I learned a new word today
Then learn it again: it’s synecdoche.
I might still be pissed off that they never called Willow bisexual in Buffy.
Same. Bugged me then, bugs me now.
I heard sometime last year that the writers knew that was a thing back in the 90s, but they didn’t think the general audience would go for it. Bah, I say.
That’s incredibly annoying
So… a series that went to great lengths to explain the concept of a “Slayer” thought that explaining bisexuality would be too complicated?
Willow: I’m in love with this girl now.
Other Person: But you were into that boy before; how can you be a lesbian?
Willow: I’m bisexual. I can be attracted to either.
There. Done.
I suspect the problem was more with the network than the writers. Joss had to threaten to quit the show just to get the network to let them kiss once. But yes, it was very frustrating.
Hell, i remember the days (the 80s, to be precise) when it was considered inaccurate for a girl to call herself ‘gay’ at all. “Gay” was for men, “Lesbian” was for women. And at the time, no one ever even mentioned bisexuals.
I’m just waiting for Joe to be off frame for this one. let’s crush that hope a bit more buddy.
Yeah, as a bisexual person, I’m pretty irritated by Joyce here, but I forgive her both because she’s fictional and because she’s the kind of person that thought kissing Dorothy meant she HAD to break up with Joe; eventually I’m sure she’ll get around to the concept of “both”
And still do both.
we already did this song and dance when Becky called Joyce gay in their confrontation! does the comic need to just put a disambiguating parenthetical next to the word every time the word is used generically vs. literally?
“DAD I’M GAY (colloquial) AND I LOVE DOROTHY!” doesn’t scan as well imo
I mean, Willis could just use Bi. It’s even got one less letter. Or Queer! That’s got more letters making it even more important sounding!
pedantic sure, but it’s better then the erasure, colloquial not withstanding.
It’s not about Willis directly speaking, he’s writing characters – Joyce might be using ‘gay’ for any number of reasons. She might think or know that her dad doesn’t know the term ‘bi’ for example. She might not have come to terms with it herself. She just heard Becky call her ‘gay’ and is simply repeating the label someone she trusts gave her. Etc.
If Willis put his own direct voice into each character’s speech they would lose all characterisation.
True, still annoying on the whole though.
On the other, other hand, Current Joyce *not* calling herself Bi does more to break the other stereotypes of bisexuals then if she claimed it.
In my gut reaction of feeling bi erasure, I forgot I said the lesbians can have her.
GET DOWN MADAM PRESIDENT
I believe Becky will be President some day but Dorothy needs to avoid it like the Black Death.
🙂
I, too, think that the Black Death should avoid becoming President.
Improvement though it might be, it’s not capable of taking the Constitutionally-mandated oath of office, and so we’d need to open up the amendment process at the worst possible time for it to be eligible.
😆
Joyce does look like she’s diving to take a bullet for Jocelyne, doesn’t she?
what.
Sry I think I accidentally hit report on this one word comment lol. I wonder of that happens a bunch of times every night
I think Hank could really use that pizza…
I know I could.
Younger sibling always have to be the center of attention smh.
Poor Becky. Not because of anything Joyce/Dorothy related, but she has to be noticing some uncomfortable parallels with Hank’s first comment being a microaggression about his daughter’s hair (and the subtext re: its relation to ‘womanhood’).
I think she’s distracted by bigger and less subtle issues at the moment
Tomorrow’s comic with Hank surprising us all: Girls, I’m OLD, not blind. …Well as long as I’m wearing my glasses.
Not gonna lie, this would be perfect.
“Girls! Girls. That’s fine. I honestly just came here to talk about the protest. Let’s all go get some pizza and you can tell me all about it.”
…My dream convo. *Sigh*…
i mean he believed it about the birth control
I feel he wants to believe it
Did he, though? He went along with what they were saying, sure – but he pretty obviously had questions about it and wasn’t really buying what they were selling. But there were bigger issues to go over, and I feel like he more didn’t keep pressing the issue rather than believing what they told him about it.
Now this is gonna get much easier. Just put your arm around your little sister, chuckle, and say “Dad, I am a woman.” She done took the entire difficulty out of it.
“Wait, wasn’t Joshua about to tell me someth-”
“Also, I’m an atheist now!”
Jocelyne should reveal she’s a Buddhist.
And then we find out Jordan just became Catholic.
I swear this feels exactly like one of those lines that would immediately precede a hard-cut to an opening theme without even a microsecond’s worth of silence in a comedy. I can even hear the delivery in my head.
end theme, not opening, the bastards want to force us to wait week for the next episode. MONSTERS!!!!!!!
I 100% believe Jocelyne was coming here to come out to her family (like with Joyce) and Joyce’s completely misunderstood this, making it all about her rather than Jocelyne living her authentic self.
Joyce making anything she’s involved in all about herself and her own perspective? She’s never done that before!
Joyce made Dorothy breaking up with Walky about herself and that’s impressive.
Joyce has been doing that a lot lately.
We know why Hank’s here, though, and it’s not because ‘oh hey I hear you have some news and said I should meet you here’. It’s being angry that she was at the protest.
Yes, which doesn’t bode well. But Jocelyne didn’t change and was probably planning this from the beginning.
Feel like visiting the university to come out to her sister who’s proven herself open to change and growth to support her queer found family, and coming out to the religious father who she wasn’t expecting to be here (and wouldn’t be here if he hadn’t seen her in his preferred right wing media) are probably things that might come at slightly different points of the journey, could have been something she’d do months if not years down the line. The idea that Jocelyne’s perfectly comfortable with this situation and that Joyce is being rude for interrupting this pre-planned development just seems to ignore a lot of the context.
Context like the current strip that makes it clear the only reason she’s doing this now is to distract from Joyce and Dorothy’s kiss being front page news.
I don’t know if it’s anger, much more likely concern, because he loves his kids and knew at least Jocelyn was in the middle of a protest that ended with tear gas, assault, and arrests.
And since he couldn’t get a hold of said child, while adding in the fear of what nearly happened to Joyce with Toedad?
His going up there to make sure his “son” is actually okay, makes far more sense for Hank.
Agreed. People painting Hank as being here because he’s “Mad” strikes me as insane.
He’s WORRIED. His children were in a dangerous place and he cannot contact one of them.
He hasn’t said a word about concern for Jocelyne’s physical safety. Hasn’t asked if she’s alright.
He’s talked about “falling in with that terrorist crowd” and worries about being gay and about moral and sensible and being raised right. Everything indicates that’s what he’s worried about, not about his kid being hurt in the protest.
I was sure I’d seen him at least mention safety concerns at some point, so went back through the Hank-tagged strips to check. Didn’t find him indicating any such worries.
Maybe I missed something. Maybe he just didn’t find a good opportunity to mention it in all the recent bewilderment. But…
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2025/comic/book-16/01-not-so-smooth-criminals/anybrother/
and the following strip, and also
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2025/comic/book-16/01-not-so-smooth-criminals/realcagey/
Discussing Jocelyne and the protest, but Hank didn’t manage so much as a “Do you at least know if he got hurt?”
I’m still hoping Hank’ll be reasonable about things (at least inasmuch as possible given his background), but… well, it’s concerning.
I mean, “I want to talk to my kid about this” isn’t necessarily about reaming them out.
He’s starting from a place of set ideas about things, but Hank is also in a vulnerable place of having thrashed a bunch of his preconceived notions of life because they all turned out to be violently dangerous – his former friend, his church (and by extension, probably most of his social life), his wife – these are all platforms on which his understanding of how the world works are built, and they’re all gone.
So now he is probably in a better position to realign his viewpoints – he still has the basic “teachings of Jesus” – love one another, love thy neighbor as thyself, and so forth.
But the cultural additions to that are going to be flimsier in his heart – hate the gays, hate the foreigner, etc.
And Hank can see how these three kids of his (yes, Becky is his kid) are protecting each other, and sacrificing their secrets for each other — and realize they’re scared of HIM.
I expect him to have a heart wrenching mental shift soon.
“I thought we raised him right, but to see him falling in with that terrorist crowd-”
“You’re falling for the propaganda of the insurgents. It betrays the company you keep.”
“He’s just some sort of communist.”
If it’s not about reaming her out, he’s doing a remarkably bad job of showing it. I hope that he can be talked out of it, but doesn’t seem like he’s in the most charitable mindset.
Hmm, that’s a good point.
I’d remembered one of those, but with all of them together it feels stronger.
I dunno, Jocelyne saying “I’m no longer the most vulnerable one here” tells me she was planning to out herself to make sure Joyce doesnt get outed
I don’t think Jocelyn was planning to come out to Hank because she didn’t know he was gonna be at the school. She does not look ready to come out at all. She looked ready when coming out to Joyce, psyching herself up a bit, but I don’t think she planned on coming out to Hank at all, or at least, not now. I don’t get how tf people are seeing this a selfish on Joyce’s part
A large part of it is how much mental energy is required to work up the courage to come out, and how having your coming out short circuited the way that is being shown is extremely distressing. Having gone through coming out in circumstances where I felt like circumstances were forcing me to come out sooner than I was ready for myself (noticeable breast growth at 2 months in, when all the documentation that I’d looked at said that wouldn’t happen until 3 months), I can appreciate how much of a blow being interrupted in coming out would be.
Not that I blame Joyce for handling this the way she is, since it’s quite clear that it’s a heat of the moment decision and she genuinely thinks she’s doing the right thing (and with the newspaper in Hank’s hand, the jig is already up in terms of keeping the Joyce/Dorothy relationship quiet) – but it’s still something that would be extremely emotionally jarring for Jocelyne to go through – something that Joyce hasn’t considered at all (both because her autism makes it difficult for her to understand and process those sorts of social cues (an issue that I have trouble with myself) and because you don’t generally think things all the way through in the heat of the moment in situations like this).
I’m not trans, so forgive me if this is insensitive, but it strikes me that if you’re going to do something as public as a contentious protest in an area that you family would have eyes on, this secret being revealed is something you might want to plan for.
Of course, no plan survives contact with the enemy, but I kinda feel like Joycelyne would have planned for this eventuality.
Hard to say, but I think part of the plan was not presenting particularly female for the protest. Certainly not as out as the dress she wore to meet Joyce. The risk was there and I think she wouldn’t have been there if she wasn’t willing to accept it on some level, but it was far from a guarantee.
And as Myra V says, the HRT’s likely to make it inevitable eventually.
The primary reason to do it now though seems to be to shield Joyce – until Joyce screws up that plan.
No plan survives contact with the Joyce.
Alice, sitting just off panel sipping her Big Gulp: o_O
oh god, alice pops in next strip “Whom she cheated on her boyfriend with!”
Because we’ve learned Alice loves that shit, apparently.
Except when the drama centers or splashes on her.
Jocelyne is so pretty in this strip. That’s my important contribution.
HA!!!!!!!!!
and joyce snuffs a live grenade with kerosene!
genuine question:
why does hank suddenly have glasses after not appearing for five years? did he wear contacts before???
they are probably readers, the stress of the divorce, he also prob had to read a shittonne and was told to start wearing.
the glasses and the haircut remind me of blaine a bit too much for my liking
no i see that and agree, but he’s given me the ick since reapearing
damn not supposed to have the *but* there
Yesh Joyce mentioned both her parents did
Pretty sure Joyce explicitly stated before that Hank typically wears contacts.
makes sense, just never actually seen him wear glasses in his previous appearances.
Relevant strip:
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2020/comic/book-11/02-look-straight-ahead/contacts/
thanks, this makes sense. wonder why he chose glasses today
In the words of John Mulaney, “He’s wearing reading glasses to show that time had passed.”
My fan theory is that he only wore contacts because Carol liked him better that way. Which is no longer one of his priorities.
I love this comic so much
Tomorrow’s comic is just Joyce limping away to go get an ice pack for their hip
Joyce and Jocelyne both willing to out themselves to protect each other. They’re sisters, all right.
Now I wonder if Joss will immediately out herself anyway to distract from Joyce.
I think Jocelyne intended to out herself here anyway because of her initial text message. She’s living on her own, graduated, and Hank has divorced Carol. There’s no perfect time and I suspect she figured this was the best of available ones.
Yeah idk I feel like Joyce is actually a lot more vulnerable than Jocelyne here, in terms of life experience and queer experience, and I was kinda hoping Jocelyne would be the one to come out…
But, then again, maybe Hank has more sympathy for Joyce at this moment, as his baby, so idk I guess we’ll find out if this was a good move
I think Jocelyne was prepared to be outed by her decision to attend the protest, which is close but not identical to ready to come out.
Honestly, I think Jocelyne will still come out – but because she’ll need to have the closure from building up the courage to come out to Hank, not because it’ll help protect Joyce. Working up the courage to come out is HARD, and having to leave those emotions dangling after working up the courage to handle them… Yeah, Jocelyne would need to come out to help resolve those emotions. The cat’s already out of the back on Joyce and Dorothy’s relationship, and there’s not much that can spare them whatever blowback may come from Hank finding out – but that still leaves Jocelyne in an emotionally vulnerable position, so I feel like she’ll still come out for her own sake, rather than feeling like she has to in order to protect Joyce.
This panel reminds me of Natasha and Clint fighting over who got to sacrifice themselves for the soul stone in the MCU lol.
This is 100% something Joyce would do though. Yeah she was scared that he dad would find out, but she is infinitely more scared that her sister will face undue wrath because of who she is. I love how much Joyce loves and cares for her sister.
I hope beyond hope that their father has become a better father in the time we haven’t seen him. We know he still has a LONG way to go to be what I would call a actually good person, but if he turns his back on his family here there is no defending the man.
Everybody’s being an idiot but Becky. OK, maybe Ken, too.
Ken’s the smartest one here. Said nothing, got out as soon as he could.
“Discretion is the better part of valor.”
Ken is making the wise decision to get the hell out of there. He might be the smartest one there right now.
Well, Becky had Hank 97% less snowed than she thought she did and overplayed her hand in yesterday’s comic, but yes that pales in comparison to Joyce physically diving in front of Jocelyne.
“No, I am Orestes!”
I had many guesses where this might go. That wasn’t one of them.
Everyone is throwing themselves onto the mine for everyone else and no one has the brain cell. I love all three of these dummies <3
I think the brain cell left with Ken.
Prediction for next comic:
Hank: I understand. The lying, the sneaking around, the outrageous claims, and the emotional outbursts. You’re on the pot.
Joyce: WHAT?
Hank: It’s not too late. We have clinics for this!
We joke but.
Hank: Is that what drove you to violence? I saw the cop beatings.
Joyce: Pot makes you violent?
Dot: No, Mr….wait, what violence?
Hank: Missy, I saw you in that costume with the mask. It can’t be anyone else.
Jennifer (walking by): “Don’t be silly. That’s Sal.”
Alice (sipping drink): “Who’s Sal?”
Jennifer: “Walky’s hot twin.”
Alice: “Who’s she cheating on-slash-with?”
Jennifer: “Some dork in a hat I almost did journalism with once.”
Alice: “Journalism?”
Jennifer: “uh…” [flees]
This would be the perfect time for Jordan, the mysterious other Brown kid, to show up. And for us to find out his “sin” is that he likes hockey instead of football, which his mother will never accept.
if it is a redline sports sin its that he is a soccer football fan and refuses to call it soccer
If you want to differentiate between the sports without misnaming them, their actual proper names are Association Football and Gridiron Football. The name “soccer” is actually derived from an abbreviation for “association”, cutting it down to “assoc. football”. “Gridiron” refers to the markings on a gridiron football field having the shape of the grid of metal rods that is used to cook meat over a campfire or charcoal grill, or to hold up pans of food in an oven, which is traditionally called a gridiron.
The rest of the world calls gridiron “American Football” because practically nobody outside the US plays it.
so to both of you, canada plays the original version of gridiron football (a formoer head of the cfl suggested going to 4 downs and 12yrd 1st downs, and was kicked out and went to the nfl were they adobted the 4 downs and shortened the field instead. there is a enormous uproar up here atm as the cyrrent commish wants to shorten the field to 100 yards, fucking moron.
also my jokes funnier cause you have to explain too mush to use assoc. football
imagine if jordan had Orel’s personality
why did you have to remind me of Morel Orel? WHYYYYY
If any of these clowns go into a communications degree…
isn’t walky and billiefer in that?
Dug through the archives to confirm…
Walky’s in telecommunications; pretty sure I remember a strip in which he mentioned choosing it because it sounded like it involved watching TV, but spent too long looking for Jennifer’s major already.
Unsuccessfully too; the closest I found was https://www.dumbingofage.com/2017/comic/book-7/03-the-thing-i-was-before/funk/ which doesn’t specify (though I think she’s majoring in English?).
Back when this comic started they still had Telephones
Joyce materializing between panels
Much as I wanted her to tell Hank the truth, Joyce could have given Jocelyne the chance to tell him she’s trans instead of interrupting. But I guess they’re both gonna be telling him this stuff about themselves at the same time.
The entire reason she was about to come out as trans here and now was to provide a smoke screen for Joyce and Dorothy. She clearly wouod not be doing so if she didn’t think she needed to protect Joyce. Joyce is just trying to remove the reason she was doing it.
I will be so mad if Hank says “I know”. I will be SO MAD. Please dear god let this reveal mean something
More annoying– Hank says something like, “Funny thing girls, I’ve met this handsome fellow at a divorced men’s support group. You know how I haven’t . . . . been . . . with anyone for a long time, even when I was still married to your mother. And lately I’ve been having some . . . well, I guess you’d call them “queer thoughts” . . .
I would totally be down for that curveball.
See, I would love to find out he’s SUPPORTIVE, but I want him to be at least a little blindsided. I think it would be very good character development opportunity for Hank if he was faced with the knowledge that his kids are afraid to tell him things. It’s not enough that he won’t come to the school with a gun; he has years of reputation with his beliefs that aren’t erased by being tolerant and kind to Becky.
Think of how Joyce was with Becky. She very quickly came around to Becky’s side, but she still had to deal with her biases, and it wasn’t perfectly graceful. That’s what I want with Hank. Maybe he’s considered the possibility that Joyce could be queer, but I don’t want it to be played off as a “haha everyone knew you were lesbians and you were dumb to be worried about this”. Coming out to your religious parents is a huge deal and I’d really like to see it handled without instantly writing it off with a joke.
that would be great
after all he seems to be a “being a commie is worse” christian
I agree with you on the level of wanting him to ultimately be supportive. I do not however want him to have already concluded she’s definitely a lesbian, be completely unsurprised, and take all the wind out of the sails of this conversation. It’s kind of the difference between a thoughtful “I thought you might be and I still love you” and “Oh I know. Is that news? anyways so about the communism”
Agreed.
Given everyone else’s reaction to Joyce’s coming it, it wouldn’t surprise me, but some drama would be nice.
LOL I mean, I wouldn’t be bothered finding out Joyce’s dad is bi, but I would definitely find it contrived/convenient if he figured it out RIGHT NOW and came out LIKE THAT. Like bro you can’t convince me a man of that age won’t have a lot more internalized homophobia to work through before getting to that stage
The most impressive thing about this strip continues to be the number of alternate universes people seem to be commenting from at any given moment.
It’s like a very annoying spider verse
Nah, it is the Conjunction Of The Million Spheres, but none of the Champions or Companions have shown up yet.
(Though maybe Fuckface is the flying cat.)
Yeah I really thought they would give joyce a break for once but nope! I really need to get the patreon back the lack of media literacy is getting on my last nerve.
Yeah like, I know these people can read. The text of the comic is so absurdly clear, exagerrated to an even furthur degree with joyce literally making a motion like she’s diving in front of the bullet.
“Well what if joceylyne really wanted to get hit by the bullet, joyce really should have asked that first.”
“Jocelyne stepped in front of that bullet and Joyce is taking her agency away by trying to stop the bullet from hitting her. How selfish of her.”
That is ABSOLUTELY the vibe here, for no reason.
I’m kinda reacting the same way as you but with a nagging bit of “at least two people on Team Joyce Ruined Something are IIRC trans themselves” which has me wondering if my cis ass is missing something.
Myra V has already elaborated on why a trans woman (such as her, or myself) might object to how Joyce handled this, but let me summarize by saying that, as a trans woman, I would not be appreciative of my sister taking away my agency in this situation, and I think it’s extremely condescending for people to act as if that can only possibly be a positive thing. No one is saying this is an ideal time or place to come out, but Jocelyne had clearly already made up her mind to come out to Hank – remember that she told Joyce she had something to tell her “before she heard it from dad” – and it’s not like she could boymode for much longer with how much change she was experiencing on HRT. All this does is kick the can down the road and interrupt Jocelyne while she was already processing coming out. I wouldn’t like it if I was her.
I’m also trans, so I think it’s less a trans/cis thing and more an “individual opinions” thing, but I really think phrasing this like Joyce is selfish or doing this TO Jocelyne rather than FOR her really just seems absolutely nonsensical.
Two things can be true! Certainly Joyce’s perspective is that she’s doing this FOR Jocelyne, but that doesn’t mean Jocelyne wouldn’t be valid in feeling that this is something being done TO her.
Jocelyne’s feelings are valid however the fuck she feels. Coming out sucks and I hate it and you’re NEVER finished with it and the fact that society puts us in that position is gross and occasionally spirally bad.
I don’t think that makes it a FACT though. Joyce didn’t do this to make everything about her again (a real accusation from the comments) or because she didn’t care about Jocelyne’s moment. She did this the way you grab someone’s hand when they’re falling. Even if they jumped, that doesn’t make your reaction any less about saving them when you thought they were in danger.
If Jocelyne is frustrated, upset, or any version of “dude I was on my way out please don’t slam the door in my face” that’s fine, but the comments claiming this is a thing Joyce shouldn’t have done, or should have known better than, or in some cases did maliciously (depends on the comment) are ridiculous to me.
Follow-up, I in no way indicated which interpretation of things could be “correct” and people from all sides still piled in assuming agreement or not, you couldn’t pay for this kind of stuff. God bless the internet.
We’re just playing rock-paper-scissors except now it’s gay-trans-communist.
Why am I now picturing the 12-step wheel of allegedly problematic statuses, like a kind of DoA verison of the Chinese Zodiac?
(Come to think of it, they could use Tohru Honda here, to fix everything with her Ultimate Pure Pureness.)
That’s three quarters of my friend group. Not like, individually, but like all three of those at once.
But which one is Spartacus?
They all are.
I am Spartacus
I am Spock!
(A line I remember from an old Star Trek novel).
I Am Not Spock
(A line I remember from Nimoy’s aubiography — inasmuch as the title of a book can be said to be “a line” from it.)
“I AM G-PRIME!”
“I’m Dick Darlington” I wonder if anyone has seen Coupling.
If Mike were here: Your mom’s Spartacus.
Lets run down some possible responses for Hank,
1: WHAT!?
2: I HAVE NO DAUGHTER
3: And? was that supposed to be a secret.
“John? Dad. Turns out you’re an only child. Yeah, I didn’t see this coming either.”
4. Wow. That’s … a lot.
5. You know what? Maybe pizza is a great idea after all. Okay everyone walk in silence to Galasso’s while I process this.
Honestly, I think that’s the most realistic outcome from all of this.
And Joyce comes in with the closet smash!
she nuked the closet from orbit, just to be sure
she is either very brave, very tactical, or really stupid
Why does it have to be only one?
good point XD
Wow, all three sisters are willing to jump on the grenade here, huh?
Hank, of course, will never think to follow up on his kid telling him “There’s something I’ve always had to hide from you,” and so this distraction is a great idea.
Haha yeah, he’s already shown how perceptive he is, was thinking the same.
lol Joyce throwing herself in front of Jocelyne throwing herself in front of Joyce, both to protect each other. Awww.
Joyce: takes a bullet for her friends
the comments: did you ASK your friends if they wanted to be shot by a bullet joyce is selfish like always!
Dad, I’m Dorothy and I love gay.
I’ve Never seen anyone jump in front of an outing for someone else
It seems like everyone wants their turn jumping on the dad-shaped grenade to save everyone else.
There’s tearing off the band-aid all at once, and then there’s ripping open the appendectomy scar
My brother had confessed he was gay
It took the heat off me for a while
He stood up with a sailor friend
Made it known upon my sister’s wedding day
So is Bisexual not a thing anymore? Or…is Joe completely off of her grid?
Gay as in gay rights and gay marriage.
It is used as an umbrella term all the time, it’s fine for Joyce to self-describe that way even if she’s bi.
If Joyce said she was bisexual she would have been transparent which would undermine this moment and it’s impact quite a lot.
I think you’ll find Hank is actually the only trans parent here.
Flawless. 10/10. No notes.
Amazing.
Lol that’s so right! Wild considering that after this she has approximately 2-4 more coming outs to do. “I’m gay” covers like less than 1/3 of it omg Joyce
i mean she is focused on dad a bit more but the exact label shouldn’t matter, not sure if she’s ever said ‘queer’ herself outside of like queer studies
baby steps because it’s Hank
“Dad I’m gay and I love Dorothy” would be the perfect title for Joyce’s memoir, should she write one.
Also sure does seem like a potential book title to me.
i feel like willis always makes sure to draw the Brown girls extra cute whenever angst is in the air and that is diabolical
angst is a great appearance enhancer, just look at ethan 8D
Next time on DOA:
Hank: Whaaaaaaaaaaaa…
Jocelyne: I’m a woman now.
*Hank faints to the floor over the shocking news*
Hank isn’t going to believe her, calling it now. He’s going to assume she’s saying this to distract him.
I’ll go in on that. Hopefully she doesn’t double down and show him the paper.
Oh, she is definitely gonna double down and show him the paper.
i mean he could easily see the news paper or she could just make out with dorothy XD; and talk about being a ‘hussy’ dating two ppl on top of the birth control pill now
That is my thought as well.
Yyyyeah that’s sort of what I’m thinking too, lol. But then. The newspaper is right there, so.
I wonder how many other times Joyce will interrupt Jocelyne trying to tell Hank she’s trans. I wouldn’t be surprised if the next strip or two is Jocelyne trying to tell him only for Joyce to also reveal that she’s an atheist and likely autistic.
…And on birth control.
…And sexually active.
…And considering a polycule.
…and…?
Seriously, though, Joss… right now is a really difficult time to come out as trans. What with the whole “trans = terrorist” angle the right-wing media is pushing now…
Remember, folks, help is out there:
https://translifeline.org/
https://www.thehotline.org/
https://www.thetrevorproject.org/
i wonder which ones ppl would consider worse, i feel like some other home schooled kids are also autistic but considering what happened with beckys dad he might be understanding of the atheism thing
Jocelyne is trying to tell Hank under duress to help Joyce, as is obvious from how she is phrasing the lead up to it. Jocelyne is under no obligation to explain herself to a relative she does not trust, even if it’s her dad, she thinks she isn’t the most vulnerable here but I would argue that she still is, most conservative Christians in modern day are modestly more tolerant of gays than they are trans people, and Joyce already has a degree of sympathy from her dad due to being the youngest, and having been kidnapped.
All that said, I feel Jocelyne will still likely be coming out to Hank before the end of this storyline.
Jocelyne’s probably more likely to get a bad reaction from Hank, but Joyce is still more vulnerable, since she’s still very dependent on him.
Jocelyne’s been preparing for awhile. She’s got her own place. Enough income to keep her in ramen. Joyce would be in trouble if Hank really cut her off.
Jocelyne was only going to come out to Hank in order to distract his attention from Joyce, who was the “most vulnerable”. Now that Joyce has outed herself, she might still feel obligated to come out in solidarity, but it’s not like she “wants” to do it.
“Dangit, Joyce, I told your mother we shouldn’t have given you those vaccines”
How many people are coming out this week place your bets
ppl are still walky trans truthers so maybe we’ll see something from him (i9 would love to see his moms eaction to that)
I think we’ll need more than this week to get there for him. He’s not one to examine his feelings closely (which, fuels the walky trans truthing), it’d take at least a few Big Moments for him to get there
Hank comes out next. Sometime between tomorrow and Halloween our time.
love the dramatic jump in. guess ken walked off? i would’ve stuck around
hopefully no one wa s ecorded
Ken can be seen slipping away on the left side of the last panel, yes.
i said above, he’s going to get campus security cause hank stole his paper (and the girls on the front of the paper from teh protest are there)
Right now is a really difficult time to come out as trans. What with the whole “trans = terrorist” angle the right-wing media is pushing now…
Remember, folks, help is out there:
translifeline.org
thehotline.org
thetrevorproject.org
Caveat emptor, of course… protect your privacy…
Take off on a big OE to another country, if you can!
It’s unfortunate that just about any time Willis writes something political, it has gotten so much worse.
Because reality has.
Keep trucking, Willis. You are saying important stuff.
Commenting to put this on “top”
Thanks, folks.
Oh, BTW, for folks in the USA —
Scholarships for SOGIEdiverse students:
hrc.org/resources/scholarships
A crash course in adulting for youth facing the world:
hrc.org/resources/on-our-own-a-survival-guide-for-independent-lgbtq-youth
Relocation and travel funding:
hrc.org/resources/emergency-funds-for-relocating-families
and 90% of canda would welcome you (as we did with those who didnt want to go to Nam’
“Dad I’m gay and in love with Dorothy!”
“Then why did you need the birth control pills?”
Hey, that’s, like, the one question that actually has a non-dramatic answer (which is, of course, why she and Dorothy reflexively lied about it because why tell the truth when you can lie awkwardly)
(tbf, they were both mainly worried about getting him the hell out of the room in a hurry at that moment, so they probably weren’t thinking very clearly about the pills, which were miles outside their brains right then)
“So I don’t get lesbian pregnant!”
“We really should have sent you to public school.”
XD
If they didn’t sign the permission slip for sex ed it wouldn’t have helped. Public school sex ed would have maybe a 50% chance of having helped depending on what was actually taught.
Everyone is getting together for a VERY awkward pizza dinner
I really hope the next strip is a hard-cut to two hours later, they’re all sitting in Galasso’s looking perturbed and silent.
if its 2 hours later, the last panel is galasso throughing them out for staying to long in the restaurant (or him kissing hank, that be a great gag)
Well presumably they would have lots of dramatic conversations before they calm down enough to get pizza.
As awkward as talking about the attractiveness of the lady bear mascot?
Good job making it all about yourself, Joyce.
This but without a tone of contempt, thank you for saving your sister from what could be a very dangerous coming out conversation that she clearly hadn’t wanted to be this way, today, but was looking to do now to protect you.
Gentle reminder that Jocelyne is feeling FORCED to come out in order to protect her little sister. That’s why Joyce hijacked her coming out to Hank.
1000000000%
And that was so selfish of Joyce. /s
It baffle as me how so many people are, unlike you, taking that position completely un-ironically. The internet seems to be the home of a unique specimen of person that takes almost every single, solitary human interaction in the absolute worst faith possible, levels of bad faith I wasn’t even aware existed.
It’s the “so you hate waffles?” meme but on broad scale.
A lot of people seem to have decided that ever since Joyce kissed Dorothy while dating Joe, she’s evil and everything she does is deliberately designed to hurt people.
THIS, I have no idea how people are upset with Joyce here! She and her sister are both doing the same thing for each other!
Welp, time to put the popcorn into the microwave
Jocelyne – trying to come out in the most calm and controlled manner that she can in the moment to try and protect Joyce and Dorothy.
Joyce jumps in and comes out in the most hilarious and over the top way possible to try to protect Jocelyne.
As much of a fools errand as protecting Joyce and Dorothy’s relationship at this point is, this is exactly how I expected Jocelyne to try to handle it – come out before speculation goes any further and focus the conversation on her being transgender for at least the moment. Talk things through with Hank as a mature adult.
And Joyce handled things in perhaps the most Becky way possible by jumping in and coming out to try to protect Jocelyne which… Great sentiment, but I know if I had worked up the courage to come out to someone important to me and someone else tried to block that from happening, I would be extremely put out. For better or for worse, I’d have already made my decision, and trying to delay it further after that would just make things worse for me. Just like you don’t out someone who is transgender against their will, you do not stop a transgender person from coming out after they’ve decided that it’s time to come out – even if the circumstances behind that decision being made aren’t ideal.
So, I’m guessing we’ll have Jocelyne coming out tomorrow, then see Hank’s initial reaction to all this being dropped in his lap shortly afterwards. It’ll be… an interesting few strips to watch, one way or the other.
nah, the next few strips are gonna cut to ken going to get campus security, and when the get back to the browns they are at galassos with out hank, all sadly discussing what they do next, with no explaination or reveal as to what happened next here.
DAMN YOU WILLLIS!
they’re good sisters.
Hi, Dorothy. I’m dad, and I love gays.
Ah, the coming out of the magi.
🤣 best comment
lmao
Excellent ref.
God I don’t know if I’m just like, grumpy, or what, but literally NONE of this is landing for me.
I think it’s because nothing is allowed to breathe, or have stakes? I don’t care about DoJo’s relationship being exposed because it’s a few hours old.
The stakes of the relationship itself were deflated, or at least postponed- Joe is doing his Joe thing and nobody gives a damn about Walky.
Jocelyn is ALREADY estranged from her parents.
Joyce’s dad has already lost moral and emotional respect from Joyce and the readers. I’m sure she’ll be sad if her dad is a bigot, but do WE give a damn? I don’t. And it’s not like he’s going to.kidnap her, too.
The Becky thing… also just didn’t land with me.
Straight-up, the only strips I’ve actually.enjoyed lately have been Walky and Jennifer.
The stakes here are extensions of old stakes, like Dorothy’s ongoing mental health / self-worth crisis and the (non-romantic) relationships Joyce has with people around her. That is where the buildup came.
The most fundamental question with this arc is less “How will this very new relationship chart is course” and more “Who are Joyce and Dorothy as people? How will they live their lives in relation to other people?”
Today’s strip fits very well into that. We previously established that part of Joyce is her willingness to selfishly hurt people while pursuing her repressed desire. Now we fill out the picture by saying that, even now, even when she’s messing up and failing and dropping the ball, she’s still going to put herself on the line to save her sister. Joyce’s inner light is even more solid and real now, because it still shines in the challenging seas of her temptations and mistakes. That’s stakes.
There’s some other things in your comment I don’t get. Hank has shown remarkable willingness to change and put his loved ones over dogma. We may yet see Jocelyn have a deeper and more authentic relationship with him.
And he has gained my respect (I mean in general, not specifically in relation to the current arc, which hasn’t yet progressed enough for him to have the opportunity for the hard decisions). I’m at the edge of my seat to see him take a shot at the home run ball again, and I think he’ll hit it.
I’m currently having another webcomic I read not landing for me (OOTS). I get it. But I hope this helps explain why some of us are engaged.
As it happens, when I commented before on how uninteresting DoJo seemed to me, it was largely because the relationship wasn’t just a few hours old. Only the kissing, the cheating, and the realization that they were in a relationship were new (their friendship had gradually transformed into love some time before), and for a little while it seemed like nothing was really happening (or, rather, the same bit of almost something, again and again). Besides, the cheating’d caused me to disengage from their relationship.
But stuff’s happening again now, so I’m content (though I am hoping to revisit the maybe-poly thing). I won’t bother commenting on that current stuff, because Ado did it better.
I don’t hate any of this… I just think everyone would have felt better if we had done a hard turn away onto something else before Dad came to town.
Ugh, but then the inciting newspaper cover doesn’t make sense…
I don’t know, I’m just really wishing I was watching Walky. Amber and Sal be sassy to each other. Also Malaya getting on Sal’s nerves. Then come back to all this in a week or two.
Everyone trying to protect each other, how sweet. But also, holy crap, Joyce. Nearly choked on my coffee!
Joyce and Jocelyne then proceed to try and throw themselves in front of each other so hard, they end up creating a mini tornado from the constant spinning.
On a personal note, anybody know how to rewind the comments back to earlier ones? I made one about 11:30PM (my time) last night, and it’s been completely swallowed up since then. It was a point that no one else seems to have thought of, and I’d like to see if anyone reacted?
Ctrl+F is your friend.
Except if you’re on a phone, I guess.
On Android phones there’s a “find in page” bit under the hamburger menu on the browser that accomplishes the same thing.
On my Android I use Chrome and there is a find function in the menu for the three vertical dots at the upper right.
Just bringing up Hank here–
Does it occur to anyone that this poor bastard has had a LOT of shocks to his world-view the past few months (strip-time)? He adopted Becky the lesbian, and though his reaction to that was better than his wife’s, it still obviously caused him some doubts. Left his wife, left that church, that must have taken some mental somersaults. And now his daughter. And I’m positive that Jocelyne won’t wait to reveal her new self.
So what’s the worst case scenario here– Blame it all on Becky and disown all three of them or heart attack/complete mental breakdown? Or both?
I’m guessing that it’s going to be a, “Huh… Pizza. Yes, pizza would be good right now,” sort of shocked nonresponse. It’s definitely going to take him some time to process through all of this – and while I think that he’s going to come through the shock a better person for it, it’s still going to take a while for him to process all of this shocking new information.
Of course, there’s still the possibility that we cut away to something else before we see his reaction, which… well, that wouldn’t be MY preferred way of finishing out this particular segment of the story. Of course, it looks like we also still have about a month of updates to go through for this chapter, so…
Exactly what I was thinking too
Absolute worst case? He decides that Toedad had the eight idea, and buys a gun. But I’d be very surprised if that happened.
Worst for Hank is some kind of angry outburst dismissing it as not real. He wouldn’t hold to it for long though, he does indeed place his children first over everything, even his wife.
Man… Big day for Hank
Woman… Even bigger day for Hank
Now it’s Joyce’s turn to make someone else’s moment about herself.
Joyce.
You. Are. BI.
She’s trying to ease his dad into it, he probably only barely understands same sex queerness as it is
*her, damn lack of edit or preview button
~you actually don’t get to decide labels for other people, she can call herself gay if she wants tooooo~
“Well hi there, Gay and I Love Dorothy. I’m dad.”
Well that nearly got pumpkin spice coming out if nose. You win the comment section.
“Bisexual people can call themselves gay if they want to” feels like a pretty basic concept that I didn’t feel needed explaining but this comment section is always full of surprises.
Some bi folks just want a little bi pride I suppose, though there could be some of that not so prideful “get in your assigned box” toxic stuff at play as well I suppose suppose.
Here we are, mostly nominally allies, fighting bitterly about whom to call gay.
While bigoted cishete people can call ANYBODY gay. On the basis that they feel like smearing the person in question.
It’s definitely one of those things where different people can obviously call and refer to themselves however they wish and they should be respected. Some bi people will refer to themselves as a gay disaster or something similar as a joke or a meme, others will be uncomfortable with someone else calling them that, both can exist. Some people just don’t get it.
Funniest thing Hank could do would be to look at Becky and go
“And she is not in love with you?”
“Nope.”
“That’s rough buddy.”
Just know that I am rifling through my briefcase as best I can for any internets I have left because you just earned them.
Will this quiet down the “Joyce is selfish and secretly evil” crowd? Let’s find out!
Also please let Hank continue to not be completely shitty.
Never mind, I just read through several comments threats above this, and the answer is that Joyce is an inconsiderate asshole who is belittling her sister.
Even though Jocelyn is clearly uncomfortable coming out and is just trying to protect Joyce. Like they’re both trying to protect each other. It’s incredibly sweet and wholesome.
Joyce isn’t like clear on queer stuff, she’s newly out. But she probably knows, at least, that in the eyes of a lot of religious people being gay is bad but being trans is worse.
Heck look at current events! If my sisters had been so willing to jump on a grenade for me, I would have been touched. Luckily my mother is cool with me being trans. Unluckily my sisters suck ass.
Can we please knock the fuck off with acting like people (including several trans women) who have issues with how Joyce handled this are supposedly calling Joyce evil or unforgivable or whatever?
I’m sorry this happening to you and the others. I agree with you about Joyce and even if I didn’t I wouldn’t be a bongo about like some others are.
This is just like Leslie telling Roz to leave the room because she was trying to talk for her.
I’m trans too! My feelings on this are just as freaking valid as any other trans women!
Heck, I started off my criticism about how Joyce handled this by stating that this was the most hilarious way she could have done this. And I honestly do not believe that she means anything wrong by doing it this way – but the fact of the matter is that she interrupted Jocelyne at exactly the wrong moment emotionally. Does Jocelyne want to be coming out in these circumstances? No. But now that she is coming out, interrupting her just makes things worse and not better.
Of course, if Jocelyne had thought things through, she’d have realized that the distraction wouldn’t work – or at least for long – and Joyce would have realized that interrupting Jocelyne in the middle of her trying to come out is about the worst thing she could have done. But, as usual, she did the wrong thing for VERY MUCH the right reasons, and as an outside observer, I can appreciate and love her for that, even while pointing out that that’s REALLY NOT the right way to handle that situation.
Maybe don’t offhandedly dismiss criticism leveled by other trans women then?
I kinda get the impression that there are commenters who’d benefit from applying Hanlon’s razor: “Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.”
…I really hope that didn’t come across the wrong way. If it did, I’d like to refer again to the above adage and state that (today, at least) I’m stupid, not malicious.
I mean, I’ve been on Team Joyce Picks The Most Dramatically Appropriate Course of Action (and it’s usually stupid) for a while, so I’m with you.
“Stop trying to distract me, Joyce! Joshua was about to tell me something…”
I wonder if Hank will get the right message from this- both of his daughters were keeping a secret, and each was so fearful of what he’d do or say to the other one that she was willing to put her own secret on the line to protect her sister. His children are afraid of him because of how he acts towards others. Is that the kind of guy he wants to be?
I honestly wish more parents in Hank’s position would put any thought into WHY their children were afraid of them.
Aren’t they meant to be? Or is it only God whom we ought to fear?
Neither one should be particularly scary.
No. If people you love are afraid of you, you’re doing “love” fucking wrong.
Old habits die hard. He might genuinely not know what to think and have to grapple with something hard. We can hope for the best but it’s not easy to have your entire worldview overturned by your daughter and remind you of all these little niggling questions you’ve had for a while that you silenced.
…this is ridiculous. There is no indication here that Joyce can hear anything Jocelyn is saying before she leaps through the air to get between her and their father. She’s been trying to protect Jocelyn from this very scenario and if she spotted her and Hank from more than 10 feet away it’s likely she just immediately ran to protect her sister. There would be nothing to be inconsiderate about because there would be no way for Joyce to know that Jocelyn was preparing to come out to Hank that doesn’t involve Joyce hesitating to protect her sister with a panicked, full-run intervention.
Alternatively: maybe, back when Becky grabbed his arm she placed a bug on him, and Joyce has been listening in this whole time.
I mean I think she probably was running up to Joss but not going to jump in front of her. But then she heard Joss’s dialogue in panel 4 and reacted. (I mean, that’s just one panel before she leaps in front of her sister, so wouldn’t it be stranger if she WEREN’T in hearing range at that point?)
Everything except the last sentence is speculation. As for that last sentence, Joyce is already trying to keep Jocelyn’s transgender status a secret, especially to protect her from family consequences. I don’t see why she’d need to hear anything before feeling the need to physically and vocally impose herself between Jocelyn and Hank. Either way, the point is that so many folks here are getting up on their high horse with dead certain harsh judgment over what they have no way to be certain about. My own feelings on this is that I’ve been reading way too many trauma responses and reflex validations ever since we started living with the fallout of Joyce kissing Dorothy.
also we know they texted about dad being there looking for jocyline, joceline may have mentioned she was gonna tell dad, and was scared or nervous, or she told joyce she was gonna tell dad to distract him from joyrothy so thye’d have time to sort shit out.
“There’s something about me I’ve always felt I have to hide from you” is a great line to start a coming-out conversation with. I wonder if she’s been rehearsing this in her head.
She’s a writer. Trust me, she has.
I love how she’s literally doing the bullet catching leap
I don’t know how I feel about this. On the one hand Joyce is outing herself to protect Jocelyne while Jocelyne was about to do the same to protect Joyce. On the other hand Joyce jumping in mid-speech might end up doing more harm than good.
What do y’all think?
I think that if I were coming out to protect someone, and they stopped me because they didn’t want that protection, I’d have mixed feelings about it. But if they didn’t want that protection and didn’t stop me, I’d have more bad feelings than good.
Also, I wouldn’t like someone coming out to protect me without asking if I was okay with it. In Joyce’s place, I’d feel like Jocelyne put me in a really awkward position.
It’s a very Joyce way of handling the situation. Her heart’s definitely in the right place – and with everything we know as the audience, Jocelyne trying to protect Joyce isn’t going to do any good (though it would still lift a huge weight off her shoulders, even if Hank didn’t take her coming out well) – so Joyce isn’t actually sacrificing much in order to save Jocelyne.
That said… Literally jumping in in the middle of Jocelyne coming out in order to come out herself, as hilarious as the imagery is, isn’t doing Jocelyne any favors. So, Joyce’s heart is in the right place, but it’s just making something Jocelyne will have to do sooner or later harder for her to do.
Humorously enough, this is a situation that perfectly calls for a sit down in a private area around a shared pizza. Everyone needs to get on the same page with each other and talk Hank through what’s going on (which we could definitely get at least a few fun strips from – especially Jocelyne reacting to all the shenanigans that Joyce and Dorothy had gotten into – along with some drama with Becky working through the issues she’s been having recently). Personally, I think that would be a great way to end out this particular arc, with Hank wanting to go spend some quality time with his daughter to learn how much he’s missed out with with her, and sternly telling Joyce and Dorothy to go make ACTUAL amends with Joe and Walky instead of leaving them twisting the way they did.
But, that’s not necessarily the most dramatic way to end the story, and this really isn’t my comic to write.
Yeahhh, I feel like Joyce is kinda denying Joss some closure here. Joyce’s queer story is brand new, and she deserves to explore it more. For Joss, though, coming out is just something that’s bound to happen at this point, and delaying the inevitable isn’t really doing Joss any favors.
Like she was clearly already intending to come out to Hank at some point and this really just put her on the spot and accelerated the timetable. Joyce obviously isn’t being malicious here but I don’t think this actually helps Jocelyne.
Basically what I was thinking.
Joyce’s heart: Clearly in the right place.
Joyce’s actions: Pretty dumb.
Extremely par for the course.
“Yes, always.”
I think they’re clearly sisters.
Oh my Cheese I love this page.
hello, gayandailovedorothy, I’m dad
*Sits down with popcorn*
My apologies Willis I didn’t understand your game.
Joyce: “Dad, I’m super gay!”
Hank: “Wait, what!? What’s next, one of my kids is going to be trans!?”
Jocelyne: “Wellllllllllllll…”
Next step, that son of his who volunteers in other countries converts to their religion.
Don’t worry, Hank will be okay with this too.
With the way this arc has gone id be unsurprise
I wonder if Jocelyne has done any voice training? Is there any way Hank might be clued into what she was about to say besides the fact that her hair is growing out?
Do you think trans women who are doing voice training can’t drop back down into a male register if they need to?
I’d assumed shanunu was implying that, as she was outing herself, Jocelyne might have been speaking in a female register in panel 4 (and therefore Joyce’s questionable intervention might’ve been too late anyway).
Two seconds later Dorothy comes running in:
“MR. BROWN I’M DOROTHY AND I LOVE GAY PEOPLE”
AND HERE COMES JOYCE BROWN WITH THE STEEL REVELATION!
Beat me to it!
Okay, this was funny. Being funny is one of the hardest things in the world. It is probably impossible to do it successfully on a daily basis. So, when Willis strikes gold, it is only fair to say so.
I have been reading this comic for years. This is the first time you genuinely made me laugh out loud.
Hank MIGHT stay cool about Joyce being gay. I doub it, but he might. But if he finds out she ALSO is considering staying in a relationship with Joe at the same time, I expect he might crash out and leave.
I think he’ll be startled with it but okay. Like, he’s coming around on gay people. He was expecting Jocelyne to be gay and was prepared for that, and he basically adopted Becky. He’s not ENTIRELY free of homophobia but I think he will have more of a problem with the polyamory – and even MORE of a problem with Joyce being an atheist.
I kinda doubt she’s really considering it, I think she’s avoiding considering it because considering it means choosing to hurt Joe more, because I suspect Joyce is pretty monogamous by nature.
I mean, she already lopped the head off of Dotty and Walky’s relationship while cackling about how she’s “won”. It’d be pretty shitty to then talk to Dorothy and be like “Hey, thanks for dropping Walky for me, but is it okay if I keep *my* boyfriend?”
Yeah, but “pretty shitty” has kind of been Joyce’s thing through this whole cheating debacle. She’s pretty clearly still interested in Joe, at least physically. She was definitely hesitant about the “ex-” part when Dorothy corrected her earlier.
I doubt she’s decided to keep him yet, but I’d be even more surprised if she’s decided not to.
Oh, Joyce.
My prediction for his reaction is going to be: surprisingly ok in some ways, but maybe also convinced this is a phase since Joyce has “always been boy crazy”, and because I’ve noticed people on Hank’s side of the political spectrum tend to not get how bisexuality works
Joyce is probably a 1 on the Kinsey scale as her same sex attraction seems to be limited to Dorothy.
This is not true. She has also said homoerotic things about Billie and Sal.
Seriously, I think they definitely missed a few strips if they think Joyce has never dropped signs of bisexuality before.
Warm and safe forever.
It’s funny because that line still doesn’t register as sexual to me.
That could be true. But this strip has been ongoing for 10+ years so it is more likely I simply forgot.
Smoooooth
I think in this context, Hank will probably have a bad initial reaction, probably more to the amount of secrets than anything, maybe a little the being at a protest that got teargassed part, and will probably leave on poor terms, but I do think he’ll come back around.
He was able to accept queerness at least a little for Becky, he’ll come around for his own kids. He’ll probably just be hurt that he no longer feels like he knows them.
I think it’s at LEAST 50/50 that his initial reaction will be negative for religious reasons. For the same reason that his first reaction to the birth control was “Do you have anything to tell me?” before it relaxed back to “I guess it’s none of my business.”
Remember when Jocelyne asked Joyce how she got so “hip with the transes” and she said, “Like, a day ago, you came at a good time”? I feel like Hank’s a few days before. He’s (1) between churches and there on a Sunday, (2) divorced, for a reason that is partially religious, and separated from the more rigid zealous person, (3) in a transition period of his life and wanting to be a better dad.
I feel like he COULD be accepting, but hasn’t for a moment considered if there’s anything wrong with being gay or trans outside of what his old church said. And so having this sprung on him is going to mean he has to process on the fly.
I feel that, with Hank, we might get something like, “I don’t really understand a lot about this, but I want to, and I want to be in your life.” Whereas Carol showed up to dump Joyce’s stuff off and argue with her when she tried to open up, Hank is here because he wants to be a good dad. And at his core, despite everything else, to him being a good dad is being there for his kids.
Now, let’s just see how badly Hank gets crucified in the days/weeks it takes for this strip to drip-feed, ‘cause I don’t expect Hank’s immediate reaction to having this literally thrust in his face to be, “OK, well, I expected that too, surprised it took you so long.”
Yeah, I agree with you there. I mean, I HOPE he’ll take it well – but I expect that he’s going to need to be walked through what all of this means and really get the full stories from at least Joyce and Jocelyne before he’s ready to be OK with everything. I don’t expect him to blow up at them – but I do think he’ll have some stern words for both Joyce and Jocelyne (though maybe with a promise that he’ll try to be more approachable as their father going forward so they feel like they CAN trust him with these sorts of things) and most likely will end things out with a, “You’ve given me a lot to think about, and it’ll take me some time to work through all this,” statement to them.
… Though, now that I think about it… Can you imagine the shenanigans if he went to Leslie to try to learn about the whole LGBT thing? Or (since this sort of thing does happen every now and again) actually signed up to take the Gender Studies course himself?
My fiancée is Gay – spelled ‘GAYE’.
Dang it, she might’ve wasted her only save.
that goalie form tho
So many grenades. So many people eager to jump on them. Unfortunately that kind of cancels out.
Why, pray why, has no one referred to this as diving on a Hank-grenade?
AND ITS JOYCE WITH THE
STEEL CHAIRINTERCEPTIONI mean…. you are Bi… but whatever. 😛
Fun fact. I think both my kids might be gay and haven’t worked up the nerve or are ready to tell me. That’s fine. My plan is to do the acceptance and love and hugs thing they will need in that moment.
Then I make the “Hi Gay, I’m Dad!” joke, because they would expect it.
I don’t know whether I’ll get to use the “Hi Gay, I’m Dad” joke, but if I do, it will surprise none of my children.
Oop, I did predict this although it’s happening even earlier than I thought
joyce is really the unintentionally funniest person on the planet
TAFAREEEEELLLL
I wonder if he’s not going to believe her because he think she’s just trying to provide cover. Then any further confessions from anyone involved will be assumed to be one upping attempts at covering for the other.
here we go
A Wild Joyce Appears!
She uses distraction.
It’s super effective!
get down madam president!I get down with the former future president!GET DOWN MS. PRESIDENT
Like she’s LITERALLY jumping in front of a bullet to save her… sibling.
Nice! Very “Joyce” of her!