Someone called this happening quite a while before the kiss even happened. I remember thinking and commenting that it was outlandish at the time. Egg on my face, I guess. Can’t remember who or when though
Yeah, Throwatron mentioned it first in this thread, but later they also talk about the paper thing as if it was discussed as a possible story outcome since Jocylene’s photo.
So I guess someone should go and look day by day and search for keywords like “paper” and “photo”.
As far as I can tell, this is the earliest one. Said the moment that Dorothy expressed that she was coming along.
Made by CianM1301 on June 16 at 3:16 AM.
Cian’s also outlined a major conflict that’ll happen in the next six months or so, which is clearly going to happen because it was foretold in the prophecy.
Though that initial post says “Joyce and Jocelyne are gonna end up on the front page” and the rest of the framing of the conflict seems to be around Jocelyne.
Nymph responds to that comment with:
“5) They kiss at the protest and it makes local news.”
Though that was later in the day and I don’t know if it was first.
User cbwroses says, at 12:39 AM CST, like two hours earlier.
“ They’re not going to go through a raucous adventure together and end up like that picture of the sailor kissing that woman when he came back from the war are they (though this one would be consensual albeit caught up in the heat of the moment)?
I don’t know why, but that’s where my mind went to”
Unless anyone has anything earlier I suspect this is our inception. And how on the nose it is, too.
You have definitely missed an earlier claim that they were going to kiss at the protest and have it get picked up by the news (or I’m hallucinating) because I think at the time I was repeating a theory I’d heard before that I thought was really likely!!
Speaking of Jocelyn being caught on camera: the tags indicate she had been this time too (though I can’t zoom in close enough to see her).
No idea if that’ll affect anything.
Her face is probably right around where it says Kiss on the paper since that’s roughly where she is in the original panel of the comic when the kiss happened.
Only noticed this now, but…
Meagan: yes, David Willis came to the conclusion that a strip that made it seem like a genocide protest was merely a cosmetic backdrop might not be in the best of taste.
I don’t think I called newspaper specifically, but I did lay odds that the joke they were building up to was “yes, Joe already knows and doesn’t seem to bothered by it.” Which does indeed appear to be what is happening.
Called it! As long as I’m on a roll, I predict that images of that kiss are also going viral on social media, where Joyce’s parents can see it, which may or may not somehow involve them finding out about Jocelyne.
I was just thinking about the how strong the image of two women kissing while police launch tear gas is for underlining a narrative of disproportionate response. It’s a classic trope for reporting on crackdowns against gay rights protests. Nevermind how intense that kiss was and all the emotions that were running over their faces in the moment of that kiss making it likely a great photo on it’s own.
But then you point out that such a perfect photo was delivered to Daisy, of course she’s gonna put it on the front. page.
Alternatively; it would be SO funny if daisy doesn’t actually recognize Dorothy from the back and asks her to go find and interview the couple involved, opening with something ala “hey Dorothy do you know who these two girls are? And if they’re looking for a third?”
It’s a strong image and definitely something Daisy would want to highlight. OTOH, we also had AG beating up cops all over the place which is probably even more newsworthy and which Daisy would also have an interest in.
Amazi Girl fighting the police is certainly newsworthy, though if you are siding with the students protestors depicting a student using violence to resist the police is not as effective an image as the lovers under fire image.
If you want the neutral readers to support Amazi Girl front page is the police launching tear gas at girls kissing to rile people up and then Amazi Girl punching cops in response goes below the fold or on a later page. It also makes the pictures seen by a reader chronologically accurate.
I feel certain she didn’t. Joyce had made it clear to Becky that she didn’t feel the same way, and to Becky, sexuality was something that could never change and was simply a part of who you were. Which is why she freaked out when Leslie challenged that assumption in gender studies.
My guess is that she’s spent so long thinking of Joyce and Dorothy as really good friends and “rivals” for best friend, that she’s recontextualized any of those vibes as just her own interpretation.
There’s still a difference between “picking up the vibes” and knowing that they’ve acted on those vibes. The vibes have been going on for awhile and Becky hasn’t seen Dorothy or Joyce since the Kiss.
Actually, strike that. She did have one scene with Dorothy afterwards and she did react a bit strangely, though it could have been just to the difference in how Dorothy was acting than when she was all depressed that morning.
Counterpoint — I rarely read the newspaper, but I would have been able to tell you if the front page was a single huge image, because the newspaper was inevitably scattered everywhere.
For these modern times, that photo calls back to that famous photo of the sailor kissing a woman in NY Times Square when WWII was declared over.
(pulitzer for whichever student photog got it)
Having been the chief photographer and also delivery person (and thus also having to take away last week’s copies left in the racks) of my college newspaper, can confirm, even back in 2003.
Also, if you do even glance at it and the front page has a pic of someone you know, it’s likely to get pointed out and spread around to the rest of your acquaintances.
Indeed. :/ Joe actually seems to be taking it surprisingly well (I’m not sure if this means he IS indeed open to a poly relationship, if he thinks it was just Joyce being Joyce-y, whether he’s internalizing some SERIOUS angst right now, or whether there’s still enough of the old Joe in him going “Booyah, two hot girls kissing! Threesome next??”), but I’m worried over how Becky will take this given how Becky has never truly stopped carrying a torch for Joyce.
I actually appear in a photo with a (at the time former) SO that made it to the front page of various newspapers.
Alas the reason was that she had falsely accused her husband of rape and kidnapping her, while forging his signature to papers at a fertility clinic so she could get pregnant by someone else. It took a while for this all to come out and the DA saw his chance to make his name, since the husband was worth something like $250M at the time. It… did not work out well for anyone in the end.
Lesson learned: even if someone is a fabulous social dance partner, if they’re a sociopath and a trophy wife, do not take things off the dance floor.
Ana beat me to it, but HOLY HECK BECKY IS TOTALLY GOING TO KNOW. Which really reframes Dorothy’s interactions with Dina a few strips ago. I found it odd how glued Dina was to her phone. Which means Dina knows about the kiss too but chose not to bring it up to Dorothy when they came to check up on Amber.
My inner sicko is HOWLING and FEASTING on this storyline drama!!!
Although wildly inappropriate given the context… unless of course the protest somehow managed to actually end the genocide in which case a bit of silly rejoicing might be justified.
Joe wants this to work. He’s familiar with the appeal of having multiple people to do sexy stuff with, he’s absolutely considered the possibility that Joyce might want to do some sort of polyamorous thing with Dorothy, and I doubt he ever specifically said he wouldn’t be okay with that. He doesn’t want Joyce to lie to him, but he seems to be looking for some sort of way to get from here to an outcome they can both be happy with.
Joyce, of course, has her own plans. Which raises the question of if she’ll actually stick with them.
Compared to how people have been claiming it would go since the kiss happened, its good. Disappointed is better then Angry or Heartbroken in this scenario.
As I have been saying since the kiss happened, they have not been in a relationship for long enough for actual full blown love to form, they are in the puppy love phase at 2 weeks into the relationship. This was never going to be some massive meltdown like people think its gonna be.
It raises the floor on negative reactions quite a bit that he’s this calm about it, so good for Joyce certainly.
Could still end up going badly, but there’s much worse ways your boyfriend could break the news that he saw you smooching a girl on the front page of the newspaper.
that isnt disapointed dad, thats dad revelling in dad humour %1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000%
joe has been so aware of this possibility, and it looks like he os going to handle it like a champ………..(don’t know why typing this has caused this to popintpo the head but…..)
Joe has been down bad for Joyce for so long, it’s genuinely possible he has been psyching himself up for this specific potentiality from before they were even officially dating, lmao
Absolutely 2 for 4 for sure. Jordan is still a bit up in the air. It’s possibly he’s LGBT+ and that’s why he’s excommunicated from the family, but with the type of fundie Joyce’s parents are, I think odds are equal that Jorden just like… became wiccan or started practicing Buddhism and they’d be just as upset/cut him off/whatever has happened to Jordan.
We’ve been given such sparse info on jordan, that I’m p sure the hints we did get do point to him being some form of nonhet. I wonder if this arc will be a way for him to become plot relevant, even.
Honestly, for all we know it could have been something as minor as choosing a major they didn’t like or going to a secular school… I wouldn’t be shocked if it was something microscopic that Carol (and yes, Hank) blew up into a whole-ass thing and then came down vice-like on the rest of the offspring.
Hell, I’ve got a friend whose parents did exactly that to him. His older brother went off the deep end, and their response was to make sure he never stepped a single toe out of line.
In my youth I knew a couple of Mormon kids who opted out. At 16 or so they decided that the Mormon church was just not for them. Their parents were disappointed, but didn’t act like monsters. They didn’t kick their kids out, they just stopped waking them for church on Sundays. It makes sense. If you want your kid to come back to the fold, don’t push them further away. Make it easy for them to return if they want to. By contrast, I also know a few people whose religious parents went full inquisition when their kids had problems fitting into the faith. It just tore the family apart.
Oh I’ve never imagined Jordan ever did anything genuinely wrong… just something that disappointed his parents. And given how some fundies feel about Catholics, it would not shock me if that was a bridge too far for Mr. and Mrs. Brown at the time (though it seems like Hank may have softened since the original incident.)
I’d prefer if Jordon was just done with their shit. No big reason is given because there isn’t one to point to. He just butted heads with his folks (and his siblings’ apologia for same) until noping out felt like a weight off his shoulders.
Though that may still point to being on the spectrum. Low bullshit tolerance, antisocial tendencies, an aversion to calling his dang siblings.
unironically now hoping for “Jordan’s a normal straight white Christian man, he just realized his family were insane fundies and cut ties to be a normal religious person in a normal religious community” as the reason we don’t see him. it’s the absolute funniest outcome.
he is an alumni and/or maybe has gotten an online subscription to the paper as his daughter is attending the school as a way to less intrusively be aware of what is happenning at her school. the question is, did any other less local news also publish a pic of the event. if the student paper has it there is a probability increase that other news outlets may have picked it up.
So is Carol a closeted bi or is Hank /hj? I ask because that’s a really high proportion of LGBT kids in one family. My family also has a really high proportion (100% bi or lesbian among the AFAB, only one dude in the entire family and he’s straight) and it appears to be hereditary from our mom.
I think Carol would sooner gnaw her own hands off but I can see Hank be closeted bi. Like the kind of guy who’d be like “yeah I once thought my classmate was handsome, but I wasn’t gay about it. It’s not gay to gaze adoringly at another man. It’s only gay if you suck dick.”
my money is more on the hank is comfortable in his sexuality enough to go “that dudes hot” without it causing him to reach for the corn starch, but carol…………yeah there is very likely some closeted shit in her if i am the one asked
It’s almost like the thing that Joyce has done, while definitely bad, is not the end of the world worst most irredeemable possible thing any human being could ever do and there’s a possibility that some people can actually be mature about it, talk things out and work through them or something. It’s crazy, I know.
In all seriousness, if Joe can handle this situation in a way that’s both more mature than Joyce, AND more mature than most of the audience has been, it would just be amazing to see.
I dunno, I went back to look at the “earliest prediction it’d be in the paper” and definitely saw someone claim cheating is irredeemable and compared people who say “I don’t mind when fictional characters do shitty things” to saying that Blaine and Ross were justified or something? Or at least claiming what they did was “okay” because they’re fictional?
Which like…. Yeah, it’s okay that Blaine and Ross are shitty people because they are fictional and if they were not awful people, this story would not have had that conflict and be much more boring? That’s how stories work.
I will point out something that may not have occurred to anyone prior.
Joe is one of the most sexually experienced people in this comic. He knows, first hand, that sex is not the end all and be all of a relationship, and that people can be sexually attracted to many different people at once.
That, in and of itself, tends to go a long way to not worrying so much about one’s partner having other partners.
You mean he’s not going to go back to sexually harassing women and it’ll be ALL JOYCE’S FAULT and not the tiniest bit the responsibility of any man ever, especially Joe?
I think so, too. He already knew and nothing in his demeanor indicates anger. I feel like, if Joyce can keep her cool, they’ll actually be able to talk through this.
I think he is at least slightly angry. The “I promise nothing sexy will ensue”, although clearly helpful for Joyce, feels very ominous when we discover he knew…
Now, he looks smug as well, so maybe he wants to say he is disappointed (especially about not having been told last night), but that it’s not necessarily the end.
Joe’s reaction is so interesting because he’s so… blasé about it. I especially like it due to the comments that theorized Joe was going to go scorched earth because of Joyce and instead he’s just like “yeah you kissed her”. Does this automatically mean he isn’t upset? Nah, I’m sure he’s a bit rankled, but he’s definitely not… “my world view is shattered, love is a lie, women are all meany weenies and I’m gonna go back to treating women like conquests” about it either.
Yeah, that theory never held a lot of water for me. I really didn’t think Joe was such a small man as to let a single heartbreak turn him into some kind of incel/manosphere spiral. Because you know, most human beings who experience heartbreak do not turn into supervillians afterwards. The decent ones at least.
Incels are misogynistic shitheads with a sense of entitlement. They thought being a straight male meant they have privileges, and they resent finding out they don’t, at least not as many as they thought.
They seem to be rather unintelligent as a rule as well.
or have an inflated view of their int/cha stats, i’ve known a few that seem to have at least avg levels of intelligence (don’t struggle in maths or science any more than the median of people) but enviroment and entitlement have caused their views to warp, thankfully those ones do tend to be recoverable. just need enough exposure to the wider world
i would but it that it is the ones thart make the news that are so skewing of the profile, simply because the ones who are more likely to be recoverable are less likely to hit the point of being newsworthy, that the pirciple of the vocal minority can be applied here
PSA Please keep talking to any young folk in your lives, it is how we prevent them from decending too far into rabbit holes
He was never going to spiral, but he was absolutely going to be deeply hurt by it. I think a lot of the people wishcasting for dark spiral for Joe just want the comic to be more dramatic than it is.
On social media such as tumblr or bluesky, Willis sometimes shares preview panels that are basically dated panels without any dialogue! I find them far easier to find on the dumbingofage tumblr because you just have to type ‘preview panels’ into the search bar. Blue Sky is more difficult. Here’s the one being referenced here:
Honestly, nothing is a TRUE Patreon-only perk. The unused strip posts just get posted early there, same as the regular strips, and the bonus strips are published in the anthologies.
(I don’t mean to imply Willis isn’t sharing anything worthwhile with his Patrons sjlfkdsjf I just mean, nothing is really paywalled forever. The few bonus strips that have become Really Important have also been made public, though you do have to know to go looking!)
Wow, this is super interesting. I’m not a tumblr person, but this kind of spoils things…for example, from the May 22, 2026 preview, we know that Joyce and Walky are still (or again) talking to each other, and don’t like super angry. Walky looks sort of playfully amused.
Willis is always doing crazy amounts of character foils between so many different characters across so many different storylines, and here is just one more for the pile.
I didn’t and don’t think he’ll be nuclear about it, but this interaction ain’t over yet. There could be some quiet scorn lurking under there, especially that panel 4 face.
Scorn doesn’t seem likely, knowing what we do of Joe. I think he’s just enjoying the opportunity to be snarkily tease Joyce… which, in turn, may be a way to derail the panic she might experience (because, while Joe tends to be calm and level-headed, Joyce very much doesn’t).
I didn’t expect him to go scorched earth, but this doesn’t feel like all of it. He said one time he didn’t think he was allowed to feel jealousy, which isn’t the same thing as wouldn’t feel jealous or hurt. Or maybe he’s been self-sabotaging.
or whatever. feels like a lot of groundwork was laid and then scuttled to accelerate the story.
My feeling is that the guilt that led to his current behavior will lead him to forgive Joyce if she decides that her relationship with Joe is important (which doesn’t necessarily mean breaking off the one with Dorothy; they’re two separate issues). He’ll certainly be taking the piss out of her for eternity over this. How things develop in the future remains to be seen.
While I can understand the worry he would backslide, he was changing BEFORE he was dating Joyce, he isn’t going to become Chauvinist 2: Electric Boogaloo because of her.
While he’s playing this off I don’t doubt he is very hurt by it, even if he’s not all that surprised.
Even if he became Chauvinist 2: Electric Boogaloo, it wouldn’t be because of her. (I suspect you know this, but I’m using your comment as an excuse to talk to the people in the comments who don’t.)
He knows Joyce. She hasn’t been lying to him – Joyce is, as established, a TERRIBLE liar – so he doesn’t feel betrayed. He gets that she’s feeling new things, and is reacting to those new feelings in a distinctly Joyce way. Dorothy was close to her long before Joe was, so he’s kind of used to sharing Joyce time with her anyway. I think he sees some renegotiation is in order, but he likes being around her, and doesn’t want to burn bridges.
I’ve been calling “Joe’s reaction is ‘keep on trajectory of self-improvement, call out Joyce for going worse after helping him go better” for a while now, and I feel like that’s still a strong possibility.
I FUCKING KNEW IT!!! (I’m really happy Joe’s taking this in stride so far. Good sign that this might not be the end times for Joe & Joyce as friends or even a polycule. …that or Joe’s about to break up with her.)
Oh there will be consequences, I have a feeling that Joe is about to break up with her, before she gets the chance. Dude wasn’t IN LOVE with her, it was still the Puppy Love stages.
Yeah I was going to post that Joyce can’t break up with Joe if he does it first. But I think on the one hand Joe can’t blame Joyce because he’s spent his own time being a man (bongo? Idk if wh*re is censored too) that it’d be hypocritical. He knows she loves him and has been repressed and suppressing feelings/urges. He also did learn from Leslie’s class last semester. He also already confronted Dorothy. Now he might still be hurt, though, privately. My first marriage my ex hooked up with my childhood best friend. I didn’t have anything against him (we were open/polyamorous) but my friend lied to me and is dead to me. Has been for 15+ years.
Love like that doesn’t form in 2 weeks, not the “In Love” kind, that takes a lot longer.
He did have Some love for her, thats obvious, but loving somebody is not the same as being In Love.
Yes, I do feel it weird that suddenly, everybody is not acknowledging this. Joe and Joyce were in secret courtship since, IIRC, before the time-skip at least? It was technically platonic in every official way, but they were getting extremely close and emotionally intimate in their conversations, and that was laid out pretty clearly, I think.
I mean… I always thought there would be consequences since the whole point of this is drama… but now I am not so sure.
It really seems like Joe is willing to give Joyce a pass on this whole thing. Maybe he is a little annoyed but he still is mostly treating it as “adorkable hijinks”.
It seems like for Joe the most we might get is “this hurt me” and an amicable break up.
Then maybe we will get drama from Becky, but that relies on Becky being kinda immature so it will more look bad on Becky rather than Joyce.
Okay, but we’ve also seen Walky be unable to grow a spine so many times, so we’re just used to that never actually happening. I think he may have some cutting remarks for Dorothy, but I think any meltdown he has, will possibly be kept more to himself?
He could prove me wrong! But I don’t know if that’s where he’s at, lately.
I think most specifically, Joe would probably want to still be a couple, even with his prior baggage, because he has seen the writing on the wall and would give Joyce a pass if it seemed like she truly wanted to be with him more than Dorothy. But honestly, I think he knows as much or more than she does that she wants to be with Dorothy, and giving a pass here would mean this just crops up again in the future, possibly repeatedly.
I mean, when Billie said that the AGGRESSIVELY LESBIAN editor of the newspaper was covering the protest, it was pretty obvious. That’s heavy foreshadowing.
I know 🙂 She usually does politics, which came up briefly when Dorothy wanted to cover a political story, and again in bonus comics (she was present for the Desanto rally, but narrowly missed Amazi-Girl).
I meant more like, if the photographer was still there, if they were taking pictures of the end of the protest (which would’ve been a natural thing to do), etc. 🙂
You’d think she might have some sense of discretion, like as a queer person she might realize this might not be ideal for any given student on the campus, but then you remember she’s a horny sapphic dumdum, and she got enthralled by the horny sapphic dumdum antics.
completely out of left field but brought on by you comment, my fave oanel of JJJ is in the Inferno crossover, after spidey gets nearly disembowelled by demons and jjj bites through his cigar, 7 year old me nearly pissed myself reading it (god i loved that arc, also the X-terminators miniseries they did for it)
her excuse is the same excuse Jocelyn had when sitting boggle-eyed on the ground in queer euphoria for ten seconds while her baby sister had her first kiss, basically
Interestingly Joe doesn’t seem upset. This might actually go in the direction of either “I’m not too heartbroken cuz I saw it coming” or “wait, we don’t need to break up, you can make out with Dorothy too”… Maybe the poly people were actually right? I just really thought Joe would be more upset about the dishonesty and sneakery given his history with infidelity
Which wouldn’t even be a bad thing since it what she was planning to do.
I just kind of want her to feel more shitty and not get off without feeling some guilt for how she’s acted? Like I’m rewatching Buffy right now and was feeling so much the same way about Xander and Willow cheating as about Dorothy and Joyce, but Willow felt devastated when Oz caught them. I want Joyce to feel the same way. I want her to feel SOME shame for cheating on Joe so she can grow from this
I really think there’s been a broad internalization the Hayes Code here. The narrative doesn’t need to punish a thing to disapprove of a thing, and just because evil is depicted without strong reprobation didn’t mean something immoral has happened – you can fill for yourself what it says about the characters! You don’t need the text to tell you you don’t like cheating, you know that.
Forgot I was amazigirl. It’s very funny the results of my “maybe I should be less like that” about scrupulosity work gets said with an Amazigirl avatar – kind of the opposite of what the character is.
Which reminds me of Scorcese’s reaction to criticisms of Wolf of Wall Street. “Look buddy, if you’re old enough to watch this movie and need me to tell you this shit is reprehensible, I ain’t the sicko, it’s you!” (or so i heard from a film critic i ocassionally listen to)
See the thing about that argument is when some demons, such as Mammon are bad, the audience is still meant to think “wow what a meanie” whereas is Blitz does something bad, the audience is meant to think “lmao funny man”. For example, the way both characters fat shame other characters. Bad when it’s Fizzarolli, okay when it’s Moxxie. It’s not just “demons in hell are bad” it’s “the protagonists are always right and shouldn’t be questioned ever”.
Me wanting a character to have to face their actions for my own personal satisfaction doesn’t mean I need or expect a narrative to explicitly tell the audience what is right and wrong. I’m not a dumbass who needs everything spelled out like that
there will be shame, you can see it in her face in the last panel. i just don’t think he has made up his mind to end their relationship, honestly i think he is going to ask her what she wants, and tell her if her feelings for dotty are really real he understands and loves her enough to let her explore/emprace them, but if she wants to stay with him as the kiss was more about stopping dotty from getting herself arrested and/its really justabout wanting to kiss but go no further……
tldr joe is going to discuss this with her like the mature loving adult he is trying to become, and thus continue to become a better person
It would be extremely unrealistic if Joe breaking up with Joyce, even amicably, didn’t still hurt her and upset her. But I do think Joyce copes by burying things and forgetting, exactly what my mom used to do with difficult topics. So whether there was tangible backlash or not, I’m not sure Joyce would react differently…
I’d just like to elaborate that breaking a tie you were invested in with someone you enjoyed time with hurts a lot, whether you want it to break or not for ethical reasons. If they do break up here, regardless of who breaks with who, the pain will likely be there for a while for both of them I think.
this also implies he may have bought her that blanket because he decided to break up with her, but still cares for her so much. which is breakin’ my damn heart
He’s taking it pretty well so far. Joe has suspected Dorothy is attracted to Joyce for some time now, and I assume he’s had a little time to think about this after seeing the newspaper front page and before Joyce came to his room. I would be surprised if this heads in the poly relationship direction though, since there’s been no indication of Joe being interested in that type of relationship. At least none that I remember.
The article about Joe’s sex tape with Roz reported him as describing it as an open relationship. It sounds like at present he doesn’t consider himself to have really been dating Roz, though.
I think Joe’s human interaction skills and relationship management skills have been quite high on several occasions in the comic. Which makes The List even more of a strange mistake.
All Joe’s many relationships seem actually to have given him more advanced people skills and understanding of sexuality than the average young adult, and its his experience vs Joyce’s inexperience that is on show here in his calm reaction. Hopefully he’s learning to trust himself in serious committed relationships – he can trust himself and his reactions, even when other people throw surprises at him. He’s determined to not be the problem, and not be the one whose behaviour sabotages it.
Joe for president?
I think some of the predictions that he will react strongly comes from people who are projecting how THEY have reacted in the past or would react now – I’d certainly have reacted worse than Joe to this news as a teenager, but as a middle-aged person… eh, if they’ve come to me trying to talk about it within a day we’ll just talk about it first.
This is a good reminder that not everyone processes things or feels things in the same way, and that there are different ways of processing and reacting to news like this, that will change the consequences and end results for everyone.
By reacting like this, Joe stands to keep Joyce’s friendship, no matter who she decides to date, and considering how much love and respect he’s shown for her, friendship without sexual posessiveness is likely to be a better option to him than losing her presence in his life completely by casting her off.
Again, can we distinguish poly from open, please? Joe might be OK with Dorothy and Joyce forming a sexual relationship as well as a Joe/Joyce one. He might even be happy with a 3some. But the 2 are quite distinct entities.
Having watched how things go, an open relationship is a prior generation’s term, and the generation before them used swinging, and this generation uses ethical non-monogamy. An open relationship is usually the first step people who aren’t poly-aware start on before ending up exploring polyamory and ENM. It isn’t necessarily confusing one for the other as an open relationsh structure of both partners entitled to sleep with other people but not form romantic relationships or discuss those people is still a polyamorous relationship structure, albeit substantially stifled and regressive.
Well… seeing how he is currently reacting, I think this might not go as bad as people think. Dude KNOWS she was kissing dorothy and is only being a bit passive aggressive. He is past the point of Surprised and is now able to think rationally.
My guess is that he got that paper a couple hours ago and has just been sitting in his room thinking and waiting for her, probably going over what he is planning to say in his head.
Can we assume that everyone they’ve met today has seen the picture? When Rachel came out of the shower and saw Joyce and Dorothy waiting there, she probably knew exactly what was going on.
Only if everyone reads the student newspaper, which I doubt. Joe does because of Joyce’s comic & he cares about her – idk about anyone else. Then again, maybe after a big event like the protest/encampment more people would check it out?
It’s also possible that she was scanning the news to make sure there was no news regarding Amazigirl. Girlkissing knocking Amazigirl out of the headlines might turn out to be a boon.
Yeah, I am getting gradually convinced that Joyce and Dorothy have unwittingly saved Amber and AG a lot of heat in the near future by Dumbing It Up Out There.
this, when i attended uni they were in racks every where (immediatly post 9 11) with also the papers of the other local unis. but they all were only weekly so there would have been a few days to a week before any one saw
But also once someone does even look at the front page and see two of their friends on it, they’re going to point it out to others who might not normally read it.
Joe of course gets a copy because it’s got his girlfriend’s comic in it.
Watching that 180 degree spin in the fundie community has been one of the strangest, most surreal things I have ever witnessed. Even as someone who lived among them for years, speaks their language, all that… I never saw that coming in a million goddamn years.
Nah, that’s just standard cognitive dissonance. Russia and Putin are our friends, but the story about Russia interfering to get Trump elected was actually a conspiracy by Obama and basically treason.
This. The “Russia hoax” is specific to the idea that Russia interfered in the 2016 election, and…… it covers a lot of weird ground.
Trump has tried to argue that Putin would never have wanted him to be president because Trump’s such a tough guy (cue laughter) AND that Russia wouldn’t have bothered interfering AND that Russia did try to interfere but in Hillary’s favor. Like, all three, at different times.
I wonder how the “Russia is a better ally to have than Ukraine” people are handling the fact that they just attacked one of our, like, factories over there.
I mean, look, the NRA was caught being propped up almost exclusively by Russian money for years, it’s distinctly possible that foreign interests use money to influence and control other fringe groups within our political sphere.
Yeah, that story isn’t even unique to him. There a handful of stories like that, of goober moving to Russia thinking it is sole kind of neo-con utopia.
And sure, we know why they support it now, but I can assure you, at least with the fundies I grew up around, they used to be full on McCarthyism mode anti-Russian before all this. It’s like someone flipped a switch. From “We have always been at war with Eastasia” to “Eastasia has always been our friend.”
(Dr. Eggman is also a very silly name, don’t get me wrong, but like. The anti-Soviet messaging was absolutely invented out of whole cloth by the American localization.)
I remember it starting with right wing media comparing the macho horseback riding shirtless Putin with Obama on a bicycle, though I suspect Russia had been making overtures for awhile by then.
Funny thing is, I *did* notice it. Not right away though.
When they got back from the protest – you know, where they were covered up the entire time in jackets – I thought *for sure* that Joyce was wearing Dorothy’s clothes. I thought they were going to be caught because they had a detour and fooled around somewhere and weren’t careful with the wardrobe after.
But then I saw that the undershirt was the same as what she was wearing at laundry, and then I assumed that the shirt she threw over it was the shirt she wore under the sweatervest on her date with Joe. Later on, when Joe said he got the weighted blanket because it was orange and pink, and Joyce is *wearing* orange and pink, the last bits of suspicion disappeared.
But what I didn’t realize is that the shirt from the Joe date isn’t orange-and-pink, it’s orange, and her jacket is orange-and-pink. Two different outfits. Rather – and I say this as I scroll through the history – Joyce’s outfit *started* with the orange-and-pink top *immediately* after she talks to Becky and realizes that she had “technically arguably sex maybe” with Dorothy.
Which not only implies something about where Joyce’s mind was at that time, but also might have impacted how Dorothy saw her that morning.
Also fun how orange and pink are the lesbian flag colours, everyone is assuming bi for these girls, and that may still manifest for one or the other of them for sure, but it isn’t pink, blue and purple so far… But also, if it’s a monogamous relationship then it will be a lesbian relationship, and some people do prefer to define their attraction based on who they are with at the time rather than who they’re attracted to in general.
I see a smile, are we in the poly timeline? Does my boy Joe get to not have his heart broken?
Or is he just absolutely the single chillest dude that has ever lived. I love Joe so much, that little smile is everything lol. I still have all my reservations, but I feel much better.
It’s like a teasing smile which is much better than any sort of frown rather. He could still def break up with her, but it won’t be like scorched earth or him backsliding or anything. He’s a dude that’s confident and calm about the situation and that’s way better than anything I was expecting
Which means Walky is absolutely gonna flip tf out because Calm, Confident, and Possessing Self Esteem are three adjectives that do it apply to him. Also because narratively it just makes more sense to not have the same reaction twice. Basically, however Joe handles this in the next page or so is gonna be the opposite of how Walky’s about to handle it. (Be that Joe Poly Walky Breakup, Joe Disappointed Walky Crash Out/Gleeful???, etc.)
Like two sentences before, Joyce expressed anxiety that she would give in to sexy things before the conversation could be had. Joe saying that they won’t happen is reassurance, not a threat.
this is interesting to me cause i’ve said a few times here that i see no signs of any negative emotions in joe over the last 2 strips. it really illustrates the way our individual lived experiences shape us.
like i mean myheart wants me to get really mad about how people could be seeing anything negative in joes posture expression or words, like wondering if we are somehow communicating through the multiverse and some people here are seeing a literally different comic.
thankfully i havent fried my entire brain yet and calm myself remembering that i do not know what device you all are seeing on, what settings and all that, and i have not lived your lives, and that is ok.
but yeah this could go bad but to me joe looks like a man in love who knows the person he already sees as too good for him/the love of his life possibly, is veryveryvery inexperienced in matters of the heart, has 1) done something that has forced her to accept a more open veiw of her truth and 2) that this has both made her happy and not changed how she views him(she is obviously still attracted to him/has feeling towards him) 3) is committed to ensure there is open clear and free comminication regarding where they go from here, and is prepeared (as well as anyone can be) for any result while still hopeful he gets to keep eating joyceful cakes
It depends on where you’re reading the inflection of the sentence.
I *promise* nothing sexy will happen + downward inflection = irritation.
I promise *nothing* sexy will happen + up then down inflection = reassurance
I promise nothing *sexy* will happen + any inflection = passive aggression/impending dumping. Could also be teasing though. This one’s a weird one.
I read it as reassuring at first, but calling her dude has me pausing a little because dude can sometimes indicate frustration when trying to get someone to have a convo with you. Which he has reasons to be like “dude c’mon” when she’s refusing to look at him, and he’s clearly displeased/disappointed in the last panel. I think it could go either way at this point.
i see no displeasure is that last panel as i commented about 100000000000000000000000% dad joke energy there for me, the emphasis on promise to me is him simply reinforcing to her that it is safe to talk. a big issue here is one context, or lack thereof, because we can only read as it is written and we have no thought bubble to show joes thought process we can only read the line in our own internal voice, the emphasis on promise does not denote a positive or negative inflection, only that that word is emphasized, and combined with joes dialog and behavoir over the last 3months of strips i do not read a negative inflection to that emphasis.
She outed them in two ways, one their relationship and also outed them as protestors. She could have been in the clear to print it if she simply gotten permission from Joyce and Dorothy, both of whom she knew.
Of the protests I’ve gone to it’s been pretty common knowledge that photos or film may be taken of you by the organisers or by a news team. Like, you and other people are coming together to publicly protest something. Wearing a face mask and hat is recommended if you have concerns that your identity may be used against you. Even then by showing up you accept that there will still be some risk.
While the headline and framing is a whole other topic, I don’t think they were outed here anymore than if they went to a music festival and the kiss cam showed him smooching after it was announced that there would be a kiss cam.
Counterpoint: Daisy has always been a little bit of a shit regarding being basically J. Jonah Jameson, but screaming about lesbians instead of Spider-Man.
In general no they don’t but Daisy, as a student at their school and especially as a fellow queer person, should think twice before posting something that will potentially out people
I’ve seen this point of view a few times now, and it’s entirely valid…
…EXCEPT, i think there’s a distinct possibility that Daisy would not view publishing a Joyce/Dorothy kiss as outing either of them. Because they are so, so, so obviously fucking bananas gay for each other, and everybody on campus already seems to have known it.
Like, for Christ’s sake, she’s published every panel of Julia Grey in her own newspaper. She might be more surprised to find out that Joyce boinked a dude.
Okay, but here’s my question:
Imagine we just polyculed everyone who’s ever been together on DoA? So Joyce is with Joe and Dorothy, and Dorothy is with Joyce and Walky, and Walky is with Dorothy and Amber, and Danny is with Am(ber)ziGirl and Sal…
But the actual question: if you’re dating someone, who’s also dating someone, who’s also dating your twin sister, is that too squick to be allowed?
I’d say that’s an okay seal. It’s not like someone dating both twins (serial or parallel). If you are on a double date with your twin and your dates kiss, that doesn’t mean you have to.
the Squik is in the eyes of the participants, and if they don’t have it then it’s none of the rest of our business, but like thats ever stopped us from commenting right!
also there is one big issue if every one who’s been observed in consensual relationships(not hookups) ends up in a mass polycule that means sharing jacob with raidah so that cannot be allowed
I can’t do a full ‘cule-style chart in this formatting, but the most expanded version as of yet would include Joe/Joyce, Joyce/Dorothy, Dorothy/Walky, Walky/Amber, and Dorothy/Amazi-Girl. Those are the current canon ships between that broader group, and I doubt any more would be added any time shortly, but there’s plenty motivation for all of them to be boinking across those different prior arrangements.
This is fair, and it is after all a pLotLUBE, so presumably a potluck where everyone’s bringing lube, but I do understand reading your call as more like BYOB where you’re only bringing enough beer for yourself, versus a typical potluck where everyone brings a lot of a single thing with the idea that together there will be a combined big meal with lots of different foods to share. 🙂
The problem with relationship palafins, is that you think you’ve scared them off, but then they zoom back in on their hind tails like some sort of dolphin superhero and you’re royally fucked.
Even the good book itself says, right there in black and white… when the wicked perish, there are songs of joy. In other words, even God is like “nah, y’all go ahead and dunk on him.”
I think he means an actual talking to about why her choice of highlight for front-page was really insensitive to the issue that actually needed attention — it’s basically making the genocide protest, not about the genocide :(
The bit where he says “I know what I’m suggesting” seemed to suggest it begins with an angry exchange of words that ends in a hatefuck or something adjacent to it. Or maybe that was just some fanfic-poisoned section of my brain jumping to that conclusion.
There’s a chance that the headline is being used in an article that turns around and says “HA! Got your attention, but it shouldn’t have taken that should it? You should have cared about this issue already! Here’s what’s really going on: xxx”
… but I am not going to bank on it and hope also that one of the cynical character points it out at some point. Maybe Jennifer will finally snap!
unironically, the same thing that was going through Willis’ mind, when he penned this storyline. and i want to clarify, i’m not even saying that to dunk on Willis.
i acually wonder, if other than the attention grabbing headline and pun, the fill of the paper is 100% legit honest and pulitzer prize worthy journalism, and by having this splash page cuases the highest circulation numbers and also somehow even further amplifies the content/contest of the protest to the point that it actually accomplishes the desired effect of “school divests from genocide” is the front page then justifiable?
now as to why it would happen that way in my head is that the front page pic leads to this logic chain
school investing in genocide causes protests >>> thought to be straight girls are pictured kissing at protest >>> school investing in genocide causes gayness >>> we have to stop investing in genocide it’s cause white girl to turn gay!
To be fair, has anybody actually tried this argument? This might get them all to actually support Palestine IRL. The “Israel is Gay, Actually” argument could be how one of us wins a Nobel Peace Prize!
Sweet! (Also, belatedly, I appreciated the Jaffa cakes. 🙂 )
Also: continuing to be excited for drama and mess, but ESPECIALLY hyped for the possibility that Joe takes this well and they try poly and mess it up a lot but maybe still wind up happy in a few years.
Different kinds of mess. 🙂 I will be happy on at least one level regardless.
man playing the 90S board/minis game SIEGE for pillow forts would have been ecstasy for 11year old embe (i had one of the castle bigsets and one of the pirate big sets, but no friends to play with (also i didntget them till 13 and had my friend circle dissapate and a new one form from people who didnt come to my house.
Fuck high school (my grad quote “mssg to the junior high: Welcome to worst $*%^(&@ years of your $*%^(&@ lives”
long live going to uni (met my wife and found my aniime loving people) seriously there is no one in my life i am not related to from my pre uni days
and i am better for it
Honestly same on that last with one exception, and he reached out to make amends this year.
I would love more media for kids that doesn’t portray “lifelong circle of ride-or-die friends” as extremely normal for everyone but bad kids, because it’s definitely just one way of being a person.
agreed, i lucked out in that my dad was the same basically his friend circle was almost entirely made post highschool (there were a few highschool people he was still in touch with but none i would call friends) where as my moms friend circle was largely the same 4-5 women sisnce elementary/junior high + couples friends that my parents made together post school. (her highschool friends are getting together nest month so they can have a party/get together that isnt initiated by one of their passing).
on the other hand my best friend currently is renting a place with one of his best friends from childhood (cause fuck is life expensive) and he still plays dnd with most of them ( theres like 4-5 of them that are still going strong out of 10-15 20 years ago but still, 20 years ago ihad successfully freed myself of the assholes who had gathered around me in highschool
Yeah, like, it DOES happen…….. but it’s not the only thing that happens! Sometimes your friend-group disintegrates for no particular reason, sometimes they turn out to be assholes, and neither one necessarily means you did anything wrong.
(In my case, part of this is definitely that ND “didn’t realize my ‘friend’ was actually my bully” thing that’s so terribly common.)
I’ve known my best friend since I was 3. We grew up playing together because we lived next to each other. But when I moved in 3rd grade, we quickly lost touch.
Cut to 12 years later and me having moved back to NJ from work in Asia and realizing how much a lack of good socialization contributed to GAD taking over my life. So I reached out to see what he was up to since he was still in the area. And…functionally we picked up where we left off, discovering that we had both developed into exactly the same type of nerd. It was the funniest damn thing when I floated a tepid political opinion to test the waters and his response was “oh good, you didn’t go crazy” and we discovered we’re on similar wavelengths there, too.
almost got tohave this with my childhood best friend, we drifted apart in highschool, and 12 years llater we randomly ran into eachother at a canada day street party, ended up spending 7 hours hanging and chatting like nothing happenned, were unable to get our scheduals lined up till the next canada day, but the vibe just wasnt the same, he had unfortunately become a bit too frat bro adjacent and was way too forgiving of people doing some non illegal but morally grey to black things on the “we’re friends/family/from same church” grounds and havent spoken to him since
It’s true. Soon as you finish your villain arc, the Evil League of Evil sends you a voucher for the nearest cat rescue. Fun fact, supervillians account for a full 48% of all cat adoptions, then 23% the crazy cat hoarders, the remaining bit is spread among the general population.
I called that they would end up kissing at the protest and it would be caught on camera (like that one sailor who grabbed a random woman and kissed her during, I want to say ww2), but I did not call the newspaper.
I was expecting more like twitter or whatever Joyce’s dad looks at when he spotted his other daughter.
Well, there’s still hope for a trifecta.
Side note: it’s no surprise that Joe saw it in the paper, as I think it was established that he reads her comics.
The question is, will Walky also spot it in the paper?
I doubt he reads her comics, but he probably read Dorothy’s articles and maybe Jennifer’s.
He is back with Dorothy, for like the next hour or so, and he had a conversation with Jennifer yesterday so he might check the paper, even though neither of them mentioned having an article coming out.
In retrospect it’s kinda obvious that Joe would be chiller than you’d have thought about this given that he was openly encouraging Dorothy to acknowledge her attraction to Joyce a while ago.
Since that conversation is a response to Dorothy sending Joyce titty pics, it’s at least arguable he was trying to get her to figure out her own feeling so she’d stop doing cheating adjacent things while denying them. Not that he was intending to say “Go ahead, it’s fine with me.”
I still kinda read that plus his commentary to Joyce that she should go for what she wants as a “Please, you two, if you’re gonna date, have Joyce break up with me and do it openly.”
i don’t know about that, the way i read his posture and attitude over these last few strips, i do not think he cared that much, if after a bit of making out it had been that they realized they did not actually want eachother that way and then joyce came to discuss with him, joe would have said “perfect” and would have never seen it as any kind of transgression. and in the reaction we have seen post protest from him it feel to me like, yes it was “If you have to make out a bit to figure it out then that is fine”
Willis you overestimated how much people pay attention to your characters’ differences in fashion styles. Plus Dorothy and Joyce are similar enough that it easily gets unnoticed.
With how drained and disheartened she looked at the end of the protest combined with this newspaper headline, Asma should just start fist fighting the first…idk five white people she sees.
now in wrestling that bring up mankind and his sock lol.
in mortal kombat it would be shoving an inhalor in the opps mouth and them turning into a balloon and popping
I feel like this is the calm before the storm. Joe initially looks snarky but in the last couple panels I think his feelings are coming through. Wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a combination of anger and crying.
I’m mostly glad things are likely to be settled, one way or another… but between this strip and (with current context) the previous one, it does seem like he’s at least unlikely to lash out.
Certainly can’t rule out the possibility of him calmly rejecting her, much as Jacob did… but… thinking about it, I suspect that he’s not going to outright break up with her now; at worst, I suspect he’s going to ask her to think about what she really wants and come back to him with a decision tomorrow.
Admittedly, I may also be biased; we know that “what she really wants” is both Dorothy and Joe, and given such an ultimatum, there’s a good chance that she’ll finally admit that, first to herself and then to others.
Willlis with all due respect, I don’t think anyone pays as close attention to the clothes the characters wear as much as yourself, the guy who had to draw them several dozens or perhaps hundreds of times
I guess I’m surprised nobody noticed, but I’m not surprised it wasn’t me. I pay attention to the clothes the characters wear mostly in the sense that I would notice if they weren’t.
I’m trying to think of what Dorothy’s colors are. I know Joyce is definitely orange and pink, Sarah is purple and green, Billie is yellow, Ruth is greenish-blue? Sal is red and black. So Dorothy’s… purple and blue, maybe?
I think Joe has been expecting the breakup since the day they got together, and the reason he went to Dorothy was to push it forward and get on with it. Because people with terrible self-esteem self-sabotage. But I do hope they can remain friends, and that his character growth continues – even if they don’t stay together, she did help him be a better person.
And I suspect Rachel has a major hatecrush on Joe after their interactions. Hopefully he can do for her what Joyce did for him – help her realise people can be better, including her.
Does no one remember the massive protests in Athens years back during the collapse of the Greek economy where the only picture any news organizations ran with was the one with a guy and a girl making out in the middle of the street in front of the riot police? Of course the makeouts were going to be the front-page picture, even if the editor weren’t a horny idiot
True, and while I agree with comments above that outing people in a newpaper is not cool… they chose to make out in a public place, at a protest, which was definitely NOT about THEM, knowing that Joceline had already been photographed/filmed there and that it had reached people outside of the school.
It’s also hard to tell for sure from the drawing, but with all the tear gas and smoke, it’s quite possible that the two girls in the photo as shown on the front page might not be particularly identifiable to anyone who didn’t already know them.
I would like to take a moment to note that Daisy knows both Dorothy and Joyce. Both of them work for her. For Daisy, these are not two random women kissing, these are my reporter Dorothy Keener and my comic artist Joyce Brown.
Beyond them getting outed by the newspaper, this will also likely cause drama in that their saphic shenanigans will likely bring attention to the protest for all the wrong reasons.
I note that very few of us are thinking of any repercussions from the authorities, not to mention parents, considering that these two were clearly in attendance, and now have their faces splashed on the front page. The situation is in flux, to say the least!
Yeah, as far as priority lists goes, Becky is far from their biggest worry – even the characters have not thought through the repercussions yet, but they are no doubt about to.
It might be that Becky is more mad at them for endangering themselves and Dina is mad at them for the ‘making the protest about you’ angle etc., rather than negative reactions due to jealousy, in the end.
I didn’t think the newspaper could print their pictures without asking first. Maybe Dorothy and Joyce absent mindedly signed a waiver when they started working for it.
Newspapers can definitely print pictures of people without getting waivers from them. There are some fiddly rules about when and where it needs a waiver, but this specific incident definitely is fine.
They’re supposed to ask names and get permission though if they can. And given that Daisy knows these two, she definitely could’ve. Also, did she take that pic via drone or did they just not notice her crouching down just off camera with a camera lol.
(Source: My mom’s entire job is taking photographs for a pretty large newspaper and she got her job because the last person was fired for not getting names and permission as needed. People will absolutely complain about it.)
Right, so at that specific newspaper they were “supposed to” but it’s still perfectly legal for them not to. They’ll definitely have to field complaints, but that’s not a law.
I think a lot of people forgot Joe is actually cool as shit. He had shitty ways of organizing women in his mind and that unfortunately leaked into the real world in a harmful way…but the guy is cool as shit. Which is part of the problem; guys are extremely shitty for a litany or reasons but sometimes they’re human beings and as the saying goes “dudes rock”.
Joe’s been working on himself, uncoupling from the more unfortunate ways he handled his relationships with women and intimacy. What comes out the other side of that is a really REALLY cool-headed fucking dude, he’s figuring it out, he’s beginning to believe etc etc.
Since the two of them have been outed without their or their partners’ knowledge, how do y’all think the various characters will take this?
Dorothy: still going through things that are changing her world view, both with realizing she’s bi, realizing her feelings for Joyce, and reconsidering how she can make a difference in the world.
But, she also pushed for some kind of relationship with Walky, which she is now planning to throw away, which is repeating the same pattern of behavior from the last time they were together.
Then there’s the potential Becky fallout.
Joyce: clearly wants to keep her cake and eat it, too, but she still thinks in monogamy.
And even if the idea of dating both occurs to her, it’s more likely than not going to happen (though I do give it better odds than I used to).
She knows she’s done wrong, but she’s easily influenced by horniness, and so probably won’t feel bad for any length of time unless Joe (or Becky) is really broken up about it.
She’s frenemies with Walky, has even called him family before, but I doubt she’d care how he feels, unless and until she see him really hurt.
Joe: looking at this and the previous strip, I get the impression that Joe is nervous about this conversation (mostly his face as he heard a knock and went to the door), but is playing it cool and will not crash out about it.
That said, I don’t know if he won’t crash out because he loves her and wants to support her despite everything, or if he won’t crash out because he’s become that chill of a person.
Walky: we haven’t really explored his feelings since Lucy broke up with him, but given the looks on his face, especially when getting back together with Dorothy, it doesn’t seem like he’s sure of this relationship.
It’s very possible that he wouldn’t have gotten with Dorothy again if she hadn’t been having a meltdown.
But that doesn’t mean he’d be ok with being cheated on, least of all with Joyce.
Also, despite this friend group being a pretty decent size, I wouldn’t say Walky has a lot of friends.
Sarah, who almost gave a speech about how Joe didn’t deserve to be cheated on, didn’t have a word to say about Walky, as far as I remember, and I feel the rest of the main cast would amount to the same.
If he does have an issue, I don’t know who he can talk to about it (not that he wants to talk about his feelings much, anyway).
It would be a coin flip if Lucy was willing to talk.
Amber might, if she wasn’t laid up right now.
Booster would definitely talk to him, but, especially in this case, I feel like that would be like talking to a nicer sounding Mike.
He and Becky could possibly have a good talk about it, depending on the head space they’re both in.
Becky: she shouldn’t even be a factor, but she is because of her dynamic with both Joyce and Dorothy.
Before the time skip, this would have been her worst timeline.
Now?
Who can say?
She’s happy with Dina and her relationships with both Joyce and Dorothy have changed.
That said, she does still feel a competitiveness towards Dorothy out of fear of being replaced by her in Joyce’s heart, and this situation is just a variation of that fear.
And being in a happy relationship with Dina doesn’t mean she won’t feel rejected by Joyce a second time, because now it’s not that Joyce isn’t into chicks, she’s just not into *her*.
The potential for drama is high, but it would be a kicker if Joyce and Dorothy have been super worried about all this and Joe, Walky, and Becky were just like “Eh.” 🤷🏾♂️
you neglect an important factor that may affect Becky outside of the current thing. Becky still retains her faith even after all the trauma she’s endured and while it’s technically not adultery because they aren’t married I doubt she’s going to approve of cheating regardless. Additionally we saw that Dina is quite unhappy with Dorothy as well. Though we don’t know the origin of this unhappiness it could be that either A: she believes that Amber got hurt because of Dorothy’s reckless actions at the protest, or B: Becky saw the newspaper and was hurt by Joyce and Dorothy’s actions and Dina is mad at Dorothy because she hurt Becky.
I think Walky would have gotten with her, but Dorothy talking about not having to treat fun things as important so it doesn’t matter when she screws it up (and him taking that to mean them), is probably what did the most damage. It wouldn’t surprise me if Walky throws that back at her but no—I don’t imagine anyone but maybe Billie will be there for Walky, sad to say. Maybe Sal on a random night.
This strip’s plot aside, do you think that Daisy is going to catch any heat from this?
From Joyce because of this and because she and those close to her have been targeted multiple times, two of which were extremely violent kidnappings by queerphobes (pretty sure that incelerator is going to be spurred by this).
From Dorothy for all the overlapping reason and because of her newfound ethics.
Ideally Raidah or Asma should be the ones calling Daisy out on the last part but I don’t see Raidah doing anything unless it benefits her (or at least doesn’t make her out of her way) and Asma seems too fed up and busy with her own issues.
(The more I think about it the juicier it gets – newspaper becomes a mouthpiece for School management interests, not sutudent interests. Joyce’s comic dropped in favour of Walky’s. Jennifer and Dorothy sacked, replaced by Lucy?)
Between this and the talk with Dorothy that man is officially an incredibly sexy level of normal and unprotective about this shit. There is something really compellingly awesome about the way he’s comfortable having those conversations and then AFFECTIONATELY RAZZING HIS PARTNER ABOUT HER ATTRACTION TO SOMEONE ELSE oh mY GOD.
I know I’ve been rooting for it but post this strip I’m going to be so sad if we’re not living in the poly timeline, this behavior is the most attractive anyone in this comic has ever been, oh my god it’s perfect.
Joe really has come a long way, lightyears really, from his origins as a one-note “ladies man playboy” kinda character. Truly delightful character progression.
So, was this published before or after the blowjob?
Seeing the protest was just yesterday, I’d say it was after, but also, I am quite certain this picture was circulating on the net way before it got printed.
Well, the blowjob was last night, this is almost certainly the newspaper for the day *after* the protest, so I’d say after just on that basis, but also I think if Joe had seen this before then he would’ve said something at the time instead of showering her with affection and weighted blankets.
(the picture *may* have been circulating before it got printed, which might explain Dina’s reaction to Dorothy’s question earlier, but it depends who took it. If it was taken by the newspaper’s photographer, I doubt they would’ve posted it before publication.
so there is something missing (at least i havent found any other comments yet on it). when does the digital edition of the newspaper come out, i mean i think it incredably unlikely the school paper doesnt have either a website that updates stories somewhat live/currently or a emailed digital edition that goes out every morning. i wander if sarah checed her phone and saw the pic in the papre digitally, now my flaw in this thought may be that it is very likely dotty would have checked her phone for emails and if there was an emailed edition she would have seen it before they got to the shower
i revisted joe’s talk with dorothy back in march and im guessing he already figured this might happen
the dorothy and joyce “being honest with (them)selves” not the newspaper
i actually choose to believe that joe specifically predicted he’d see it in a newspaper. this crew doesn’t do jack shit, without it ending up an incident that affects the entire local region.
Joe is taking this remarkably well. I mean, I don’t want him to break down or backslide but he seems much more chill than I would have figured.
Also while that headline is a funny pun, I feel like it requires the author to know Dorothy and/or Joyce personally to work. What I’m saying is, Jennifer has some ‘splaining to do.
Joe continues to win at being a good person. Comes right out and says it to make it easier for her instead of forcing her to get the words out.
Panel 2 tells me he’s not happy, but everything else tells me he’s remarkably unfazed. Because he suspected it would happen for long enough that he’d already worked through his emotions? Because he’s masking?
Let’s see more. I’m not against their going poly bit I’d like Joyce to have to face the music. Not as punishment but so maybe next time she does better. They’re all so young still, now’s the time to learn.
Panel two tells you he’s not happy? You seem to have trouble interpreting even basic cartoon expressions. Nothing in that panel indicates that. And look at panel four. I’m not going to say Joe is pleased, necessarily, but he seems perfectly placid at this point.
It was a poor choice of words to say “not happy”, as I didn’t mean it in the “angry” sense, but as UNhappy. To me that facial expression screams “sad”.
Also expressions will be read differently by different people, there’s zero need for “You seem to have trouble interpreting even basic cartoon expressions”.
I don’t know, I can kind of see it? I personally think he’s trying to keep the tone/mood light for what, even if he’s somewhat prepared, is probably still a tough conversation. His face in yesterday’s strip before he opens the door seem notable to me there.
Also, to be a bit petty: you seem to have trouble not being rude to people who have different opinions about cartoons than you.
These aren’t stick figures. Willis has a long history of drawing complicated expressions where the characters are technically smiling without being happy.
Yeah. That’s what making me think he pre processed everything. We saw that already when he went to talk to Dorothy.
I’m projecting of course, but if I had only learnt about it the very same morning I wouldn’t be ready to be generous yet. After three weeks processing the hurt, maybe.
I mean, he internalized that he is dogshit because he is a man, because his dad was dogshit.
He’s doing for his romantic partners, what he spent his whole damned childhood wishing that his shitty Dad would do for his Mom, which is love her unconditionally, and work tirelessly to make everything easier for her…
…which is also probably a love language that he learned from his Mom, while she was getting cheated on by his shitty dad. So, I think it’s correct to make the connection that, romantically-speaking, he may be an obligate partner-pleaser, who isn’t willing to actually externalize his own feelings in any way that might lead to conflict. We witnessed such behavior already, when he wouldn’t set a boundary with Joyce directly about her coercing him to drink with her.
Wait, so the newspaper decided it’d be a good idea to use a front page story about a protest that descended into police violence to out two students as bi? That’s… a form of journalism, I guess.
How would they know if they’re out or not when they’re making out very publicly where there is a lot of media attention? It’s not like they were hiding in bushes unbeknownst to Dorothy and Joyce (the literal reason they’re there is because of media attention reaching Joyce’s dad) I think the media already there wouldn’t assume “oh we shouldn’t make assumptions about these two girls who know exactly here they are, let’s respect their public privacy.”
It depends on the newspaper’s bias. If the newspaper wants to downplay and diminish the protest then it is a great distraction. “Haha! Look at these silly children! So full of passion!”
I doubt there are “no” real feelings of anger, but you know, not the world shattering horror that one camp in the comments kept foretelling. The next few joe comics may cause some strong second-hand feelings anyway. But the guy has desperately hoped for this relationship while simultaneously feeling undeserving of it for at least the last month or more?
And to the people cheering “poly!” – I feel like the only way that will get brought up is to jokingly shoot it down. I’d love it, y’all would love it, it’s… probably not really likely. Yes, these boyfriends have been tolerating their girlfriends having low-key homoerotic feelings for one another for as long as they have known both of them, but it takes a lot to break out of monogamy mindset and all four of them are pretty well baked in there from birth, it seems, sometimes potentially trauma-reinforced as in the case of Joe.
I think Joe is about to win the reward for chillest boyfriend in this series. I also think Joyce is about to learn the words ‘poly’ and ‘V-relationship’ in the next conversation.
Love the headline. The girls could actually make the protest successful. 🙂 Nothing changes bad behavior like laughter. Sort of like the “Assault with a Deli Weapon” arrest.
I’m not entirely sure that Joe is as chill as some think here, but if so I’m a bit disappointed. Where’s the mess? Where are the consequences?
We didn’t even Joyce getting herself to the point of actually saying it. Which was obviously hard for her and which I would have liked to see if she managed or if she somehow chickened out again.
We’ll see where it goes, but at the moment it feels like a bit of a cop out. It’s taking the most dramatic “Joyce doesn’t tell Joe, but he finds out anyway” direction and defusing it by having him not really upset.
the cheating consiquenses are going to be with sarah and becky and herself. willis has fairly clearly set it up for joe to be chill and even supportive of the situation. yes joe has issues due to adultery but he may also have a “kissing isnt sex therefor isnt really cheating” view
I’m reading Joe’s ongoing facial expressions as “I am holding this in so that she doesn’t realize I know until I drop the hammer.”
Whether it’s the hammer of angry or (as I suspect) the hammer of disappointment, well, maybe tomorrow. I’m still rooting for “You helped me change for the better, why are you changing for the worse” or something similar.
Panel 4 in particular can be read as “you KNEW what you were doing”, as in, “I was aware you and her had a thing for each other, why didn’t you admit it and break up with me when I basically asked both of you to, instead of stringing me along”.
IMHO that kinda ties in with my read of his interactions with Dorothy and Joyce over the past in-comic week or two being along the lines of “I know you two have a thing for each other, even if you two don’t always seem to — please shit or get off the pot with that rather than staying with me if that’s where you want to go.”
As you can see above I’m hedging my bets like a coward! This COULD be a positive development for Team Polycule but it could also be like Jacob kissing Joyce. Joe’s expression today and yesterday (IRL, the strips) seems complicated to me.
At the very least I expect to be right about him putting on a brave face about poly while inside not being sure he wants to share Joyce and feeling like crap that he’s “not enough” for her.
Oh geez, now that you mention it, this does feel very similar to Jacob’s conversation with Joe when he knew he was done with Joyce, after her lying one time. Joe super went to bat for Joyce, and Jacob just warned him that he was gonna get burned. Jacob’s cold rationale may have been entirely prescient.
Yeahhhh I’ve been really curious about when and how that would come back around.
I don’t think Jacob is gonna say “I told you so”, because for one thing, he wasn’t the one getting cheated on — but I’m sure if Joe is hurting, some sort of Jacob will feel a twinge of, “It’s different inside the situation, isn’t it?”
I’m gonna be very salty if, as it appears, Joe isn’t hurt by this. Because the entire reason this arc has been a problem has been how Joyce just went for it without thinking.
When the protagonist of a story does something impulsive and reckless, the expectation is that they face negative consequences. Then they learn from those negative consequences and are better for it. Luke rushes off to Cloud City to save Han and Leia- he loses his fucking hand, and learns to maybe have a plan before acting, as we see when he goes to Jabba’s palace.
Now, one could argue that Joe being hurt is far from the only negative consequence that’s being set up. Certainly the IDS going with the front page photo has a lot of potential to mess with their lives. But to tell the truth, that’s not the sort of consequences I’m interested in because those are broader social consequences imposed by society. Joyce and Dorothy facing consequences because bigots don’t care about genocide when it’s done to people they hate or homophobes homophobin’ is really not what I’m here for. I’m here for personal stakes.
So I admit, it’s a very specific problem I’ve got: Joyce did something reckless and impulsive and I want that behavior to have consequences- but really only this one specific personal consequence because that’s the part of the story I’m invested in. Like, if Joyce settles happily into a poly relationship with Dorothy and Joe but as a result of the picture her dad cuts off her tuition, no one could argue that Joyce isn’t being punished narratively for her reckless behavior. But because I’m here specifically for the interpersonal drama between these idiot freshmen, I wouldn’t be satisfied because the narrative punishment isn’t the one I want- also because in general two women kissing and protesting genocide are both things I generally approve of, so “the punishment doesn’t fit the crime” applies.
I feel like any other way this whole thing plays out besides Joyce no longer getting to be with Joe will be the narrative approving of Joyce cheating on Joe. He doesn’t have to cry or go “how could you betray me like this, Joyce?!”, he can be calm and say “yeah, we’re done, and give me that blanket back once you wash it”, but everything in this strip seems to set up him approving and that is the one thing I cannot abide.
Edit: not *everything*. I misremembered Joe’s face in the last panel and thought he was smirking- his expression is olmuch more one of disdain, and that gives me hope he won’t take it in stride so much.
I think honestly he knew and isnt that upset because its very early and at this point its just a kiss and some flirting which is wrong but isn’t that world shattering of a betrayal. Joe is far more mature than Joyce and jas a lot more romantic experience even if it was sexual mostly. We also know he was sort of catching the vibe from his talk with Dorothy. I think he’s going to just go. Clearly you’ve got to work this out go do it. Go figure yourself out and whats going on with her. And they’ll still possibly be friends i think walky is the one who will crash out
Sometimes things just work out, you know? Stars align, a mistake is taken with grace and worked through instead of layering trauma on trauma. There’s room for healing and growth here, and that’s beautiful.
also she could still get punished with the loss of the relationship. i could see joyce still breaking it off with him because of what she did was wrong and she feels she has to do so to make things right with him, even though joe was prepared for this and was desiring of finding a way forward together.
and him her, and who knows, maybe 6 month later (in comic) they do end up in a polycule. joyce still faces the consiquence of her actions, takes responsibility learns and grows and they decide to try again.
Sure, but is that a satisfying narrative? If Luke had just pwned Vader, saved Han, and defeated the Empire in one swoop, would Empire Strikes Back be held up as such a classic?
If Joe is cool with this, it takes away so much of the *impact* of Joyce making a mistake. Because the only reason it was a mistake in the first place was that it hurts Joe (I continue to give negative shits about Walky and his feelings). And with that lessened impact, Joyce is a lot less likely to grow and change because of it, and that’s what this whole story has been about, Joyce growing and changing.
Real life isn’t always about conflict and change, but we’re not reading a biography, we’re reading a drama. And a protagonist getting rewarded for her mistakes is not fun to read.
yes it is satisfying as a narrative, i have ranted in past posts about the fact i don’t like drama happenning for no reason but that the drama is the most drama even if it doesnt follow the stories flow pacing or tone, just cause it would be the more dramatic event. there is a thing of giving the reader a reprieve, or just not adding drama that is out of sinc with the where whyw what and how of whay has happenned. the luke vs vader analogydoesnt quite copy over, yes as a basesubject of “it is a dramatic event in the story” you can compare as an academic example or story structure, but luke v vader is a violent conflict between 2 opponents, joyce/joes relatiionship is is in conflict they are not dipole participants, the are both positive aligned narratively, and they have been set up to be seen that way, it is not until returrn do we get luke approaching the confict from a layered and multiperspective view. just because the pumishment is not as severe as you would like to see does not mean she is rewarded for it. nor does it mean she cannot grow or change from it. we in real life do not always need to be hit with the harshest penalty to provoke us into to growth and change, in fact from the studies i’ve read regarding disipline and trying to get someone to grow and change positively it is counter productive to impose the harshest penalties to get change in others, and longer lasting and greater change is more often going to be successful when punishments are more lenient and accompanied by positive reinforcement. and to me when reading a silly slice of life comic strip i prefer the characters to be prtrayed more realistically like that.
there is to much emphasis on conflict having to have highstakes/big results at all times or the narrative is less satisfying. and now just because passive voice is not desirable in nonfiction for the purpose grammatical clarity, doesnt mean conflict in a narrative must not have a passive effect/or use a seemingly passive consiquence to be satisfying.
Well, that’s one take on it, but this strip isn’t a morality play, and I don’t think it would be improved by turning into one. I think this reaction is perfectly in character for Joe, and is frankly a lot more interesting than the typical “How could you do this to me?” histrionics you usually get in fiction in this kind of situation.
It’s not about morality, it’s about not warping the narrative so that your protagonist never faces thr consequences of their mistakes.
It’s been literal decades, but look at Eragon as an example. As I recall, at the end of the first book he got horrifically maimed by a bad guy way stronger than him. And then in the ne,t book the elves cast some sort of uber-healing soell on him that both massively powered him up and completely removed that injury. And from then on Eragon was even more of a childish power fantasy than he already was, and it was not fun to read.
Joyce being able to make out with Dorothy and have her boyfriend, previously established as having significant issues about infidelity, give his seal of approval and either calmly step aside or retroactively declare himself ok with polyamory is not to that level, but it’s certainly not a satisfying story beat. There’s no conflict, no reflection, just justification for Joyce to indulge her whims, confident that the author will ensure she never has to face the consequences of a mistake she made.
again joe doesnt have to react with extreme nagativity for joyce to both face consequences that are serious and change inducing.
i think a big disco we have is that as i have read joe as a character over the last month it does not jive to me that he would react with extreme negativity, or have the kiss cause his issues wiht adultry to flare up hugely. to me joe reacting with open hostility/rage/other extreme negative emotions, would be very out of character. one big thing to me is joes infidelity issues may have a lot to do the lying or secrecy hiding it, where as the kiss happenned out in the open and in an enviroment where privacy and annonymity are not expected
1) I’m not calling for him to be histrionic. But the vast majority of people out there don’t respond to their partner passionately kissing someone else with “well, finally! Good for you two lovebirds!”. Even poly folks if it wasn’t cleared/discussed beforehand. Because it smacks of lack of care for them. Joyce didn’t at all care how Joe would feel one way or the other when she smooched Dorothy. And so Joe deserves to feel hurt. Because “caring about your partner’s feelings” is the damn baseline for a healthy relationship. Joe’s whole *thing* was that he was terrified of any feelings that weren’t “lust” and so that was the only thing he allowed himself to feel and wanted his partners to feel. And then he fell hard for Joyce and had to come to grips with putting an emotional connection on the table. He and Joyce were not necessarily “in love”, but they were certainly connected by more than “the bonds of mutual lust” to quote Roy Greenhilt. And then Joyce goes out and shows the entire damn world that she *didn’t * take his feelings into consideration by not clearing the makeouts with him as well as actively avoiding telling him afterwards.
God, the more I write it the more I’m like “how would he *not* be hurt by this? How does Joyce showing him so blatantly that she doesn’t consider his feelings worth thinking about *not* cause him pain?
i do not deny that most peple are going to react negatively. i am saying as i read the story and his character thus far, it would surprise me more if he reacted with more outward negativity than he has, his talk with dotty, the fact that he has been supporting joyce for MONTHS as she proccesses the changes in her life, the way he has reacted to joyce telling about the laundry room, the way he acted when she arrived the previous night, the way he acted when she arrived. All of this leads me down the road that joe whiel may feel some hurt, is not going to show it or let it interfere in this moment.
Sometimes people don’t do jealousy, though. My partner’s college girlfriend got really upset with him when he didn’t react with rage upon finding out she had cheated on him. He’s an all-compersion type, and was even back when there weren’t common words for it. It wouldn’t surprise me if Joe was the same way – and he is well-disposed towards a lot of open sexuality.
“But cheaters must be punished” isn’t compelling to me when nobody actually got hurt. (Also, the much more likely “punishment” is the Becky fallout.)
This is sort of what I expected he doesnt seem horrifically upset more somewhat amused. I thinknhe sort of had a feeling Joyce and Dorothy had a thing for eachother and at this point it is just a kiss and flirting and that wasnt great but its still early enough that he can possibly take this in stride. I wonder if he’ll just break up with her. Or if it will lead to them discussing maybe opening up to Dorothy and Walky. I think he’ll likely break it off and say Joyce babe you clearly need to work this out go do it. But maybe …let me watch once.
Part of what’s weird to me is that while we know that was their first kiss, generally if you catch your partner cheating, even with something as relatively minor as a public kiss, the assumption isn’t that it’s the very first time.
Especially for someone with trauma about cheating.
The thing is his trauma about cheating was his father being a cheater he has been prepared for this and its very minor. I never expected him to be more than upset about it. I never expected pandemonium from jow or even true anger just well fuck I should have known.
The counterpoint to that is that Joe also had a lot of internalized gender-related stupid back at the beginning of the strip — I honestly think he spent so much time trying not to be his dad that he never once considered how it would feel to be his mom.
I’m splitting a hair inbetween “I never want to make anyone feel like my dad made my mom feel” and “I never thought I would feel LIKE my mom”, if that makes sense.
I think he’d considered the victim’s perspective, but I don’t think he’d ever considered he’d BE the victim.
also I don’t know if becky is gonna take this quite as hard as people are thinking
last time joyce had something to tell her re: autism she was like “oh so you’re gay. right?”
people are seeing this coming I think
I think Becky is going to be *happy* about it. IDK why people think Becky would be like “what you’re gay for dorothy?!”: the Dotty/Becky “rivalry” is a meme to Becky, not a real thing
Thats a fair possibility but I think it will still be hurtful as hell for Becky because she may ne very happy with Dina she is not over Joyce. She still loves her both as a woman and her best friend
i think we will have relationship drama just not where and with whom we expect or want, damn those authors who have creative control, how dare they not write what we want! we demand DRAMA
i see walkys spiral being towards deprosion and self destruction, i see him diving wholly into replacing amazihgirl as she is out injured and letting himself get hurt/taking unnecessary risks.
i do not see him spirraling into a heel turn and gpinngfull incel as some have said
I’m not disappointed yet, but that’s because I still have heart eyes for potential mess and disaster (affectionate) for these three or four people attempting to navigate poly.
Yup I think the talk with Dorothy where he asked if she was into Joyce was a big hint he clearly didnt seem to believe her. I figure hes upset but hes mkre mature and also has a lot more romantic experience even if it was just sexual primarily. This is just a kiss and some flirting which is wrong but I never expected it to be the world shattering gut wrenching betrayal people clained from Joe’s perspective. I doubt hes okay with it but I expect hin to break up amd say you clearly need to work through this go do it. Go figure this out with her. And they sort of remain friends. I expect walky to crash out hard though
One interesting thing I think isn’t being talked about is how Joyce describes it. A mistake and idiocy she knows it was wrong and I’m glad were seeing she did know this even if her horny mind was being forefront
Props to Joe for presumably keeping a cool head through all this so far. Hopefully he maintains that, love his growth and would hate to see him backslide.
I mean… he doesn’t seem upset?
Which, is probably good news for their relationship. Still not a great sign that Joyce continued it for a couple nights in a row.
Since it shows that’s how she’d act if she thought it was real…
But does this count as tacit consent?
I think he is more resigned than upset. He knew there was a connection between them, talked with Dotty about it. The fact that it happened is more a confirmation than surprise for him.
It was one night like they kissed a bit and flirted that one night this is the next morning yeah Joyce and dorothy did wrong but it wasnt this heinous awful betrayal people keep playing it as. Its wrong but no I dont think Joe consents i assume hes just not that mad because its early and he sort of expected it andbhes just going to break up and say go deal with this it obviously been building go sort things out and figure yourself out
Booooooooo!!! I wanted to be able to pinpoint the exact moment his heart rips in half! This is not the drama I was promised when I laid down my sword and armor!
Second panel, last page.The tiny line under his eye as he answers the door. He was nervous opening it, but he still greeted her with a smile when he opened it.I think he’s more scared she came here to break up with him about it.
I could see this going like Joyce and Jacob. It would have been nice but now it’s over because Joyce’s actions. Jacob warned him that Joyce would do something like this. Joe could see it coming. Disappointed but not angry. Mature enough to move on without rancor.
She really doesn’t know what she’s doing. She’s easily overwhelmed and confused. It’s difficult for Joe to wrap his mind around the concept of repression, but every time Joyce had a feeling she had to pray and ask forgiveness for it.
Does it excuse anything? I don’t know, but it seems judgy to ignore it.
Yes, this. I’m talking about the audience. Joe, objectively wronged, isn’t done reacting but so far he’s being pretty even-handed considering. And he clearly saw this coming
Joyce, on the other hand, still can’t say “penis.” She is trying to keep her face above water. She’s hurting people and knows it. She needs experience and perspective she does not have to navigate her feelings. Having a lot of trouble keeping her balance.
You’re so good at putting succinctly, what half the readership cannot piece together from the literal text throwing this exact pattern in their faces for several years.
Yes Joyce is in the wrong. Yes, I’ve been very sad for Joe, and he’s right to feel as done dirty as he wants or needs to feel. But Joyce was singing hymns while some of us were doing sex ed, and was shielded from all forms of secular culture.
People being mad about her bad on behavior on behalf of other characters they like? That makes sense to me! But, holy shit, there is no reason to actually expect her to have any mastery of adult skills that she was actively prevented from learning or practicing until the exact moment she stepped foot into this strip.
She’s always in the wrong. But, I wouldn’t blame someone for blowing up a nuclear reactor, if I knew they were never allowed to learn to operate the damned thing, to begin with.
Joyce really needs to learn. This isn’t the first time she is messing around, she tried to break Jacob and Raidah up because of her “Love wins” beliefs.
Absolutely. One thing I learned attending a private Christian college is that the children of the ultra-religious (and pastors in particular) have never been allowed to make an ethical decision on their own in their entire lives. They’re the ones we had to help up the stairs and clean up and put to bed. They are the ones we had to explain about carrying condoms and not lying to yourself.
There are many reasons why people act badly. Fundamentally we are all created into who we are by circumstances outside out control. We don’t choose the environment we are born into, or whatever biological predispositions we are inclined to have.
Every person has a story of how why they choose the things they do…
But we can still say those things are shitty. And we can still say that a person who does shitty things isn’t a person we like very much.
And yeah, they will still have all sorts of reasons why they are the way they are… but that doesn’t diminish the impact they have on the world.
—
Joyce made shitty decisions to do selfish, hurtful things. Her biography explains why she is the sort of person to be making those decisions, but it is not an excuse.
Is this “judgy”? I think it is less judgy than alternatives because it at least it judges all people the same. We aren’t excusing some people and not excusing others. Instead it is about finding a way to navigate personal autonomy and determinism, ideally with empathy and optimism.
We can recognize her actions are destructive while understanding how they came about. No one is excused. But understanding is a practical tool to help someone.
I kinda think what Joyce needs to help her isn’t “we don’t blame you because you aren’t responsible for your actions”.
What Joyce needs is more of what Sarah was giving her: “Stop fucking about and do the right thing”.
Joyce knows her decisions were bad, but she made them anyway because she could keep excusing herself. She doesn’t need more excuses, she needs accountability.
As I’ve pointed out many times in the comments of many strips, she used to outsource 100% of her life’s accountability to God, and now she knows that God isn’t real. So, I’m not remotely shocked at her utterly failing to ethically police her own behavior; she’s actively in the process of unpacking the exact trauma of being ethically obsessed, to the point of it interfering with her daily life, that she picked up from her religiously-induced anxiety.
She realistically can’t move forward with healing from that, without massive fuck-ups along the way. She was dumped into the adult world, with a level of socialization and life skills that are more befitting the average pre-teen. She went from her only coping mechanism being manifested in the form of a religion-fueled anxiety disorder, to her secular self, who simply has not developed any new internal regulations on her behavior, because she hasn’t had the time to gain the needed skills, yet.
She’s getting the accountability right now, I’m almost sure of it. She’s literally in the process of facing consequences for her actions. They’re happening as we speak, and she’s going to experience a great deal of pain from them. It’s gonna happen to her in-universe, and it’s gonna suck for her in-universe.
I can enjoy the story doing that to her, and the downstream consequences of that, and still maintain some level of empathy for her here in the comments, because the story has given me an omniscient understanding that the depths of her personal failings, are themselves a result of her entire support network having entirely failed her, for literally the first eighteen years of her life.
She’s catastrophically wrong, but most people learn the necessary skills to start controlling their own behavior and develop their own internal sense of ethics around (IIRC) eight years old, when the necessary parts of the brain first start forming. Joyce skipped that entire process in favor of obligate zealotry. She is trying to catch up to the average eighteen year old, while everybody has a ten year head start.
Recent discussions of Buffy have me thinking of one of the lines from it that I really like, from Season 3.
“To forgive is an act of compassion, Buffy. It’s not done because people deserve it, it’s done because they need it.”
I like this attitude for a number of reasons. I like what Buffy and Angel have to say about “redemption” more generally.
Important to note: nothing about the above quote obligates anyone to forgive anyone else. A person can also deserve forgiveness in a very general sense without any specific person being obligated to provide it. Just because someone has changed doesn’t mean you, personally, need to let them back into your life.
Probably doesn’t help matters any that it is one of three traits considered as part of a Dark Triad, and how that Dark Triad hit public conciousness and as such gets over simplified to, “These are the three things that indicate an evil person”
Definitely a fascinating read, and will help me with some character writing
I see where you’re coming from, but to me it doesn’t feel like *satisfying* Messy Cheating Drama unless at least 60% of it is coming from, like. The people actually in the relationship.
I have been saying for awhile that it’s *possible* that Becky is not going to be as upset about this as people think, or, I would say more likely, she won’t be upset about the aspects of this that people are expecting. I think her fear of sexuality being fluid is going to blow up over this, but I think she’s largely moved on from her crush on Joyce. The fact that Joyce and Dotty also explicitly expected her to respond the worst in advance, just narratively, suggests that she’s going to be less of a problem. Actually, at the moment, I feel like right now the narrative is setting up *Walky* to be the one that has the worst reaction.
But I’ll call this much: Whichever one we see *last*? That’s the worst one. The other two will lull us into a false sense of security so the third can come and hit us directly in the feels.
To be fair, I don’t think it’s on anybody having any animosity for Walky; it’s just that Dorothy pretty much said, to his face, that she already isn’t taking their relationship seriously, and then we all watched him hear that, and internalize it.
It wasn’t what Dorothy was trying to say, or what she meant…but it was definitely the truth.
I believe Joe first noticed something was between them way back when they were saying “I love you” to each other and he commented “lot of ‘love you’s going around’ or something, with a questioning glance.
So his reaction when Dorothy confirmed it for him a little later made sense, “she feels like the whole world, doesn’t she?” He was both sympathizing with her and encouraging her not to hold it in, because he knew how painful that could be. In a way, by not drawing a line and staking a claim, he gave her his blessing.
THAT reaction set the table for his reaction here, where he’s more blasé and teasing than upset. He’s likely a LITTLE angry, but I think he saw this coming. How he reacts from here will be interesting. Poly route is on the table, which would be messy to navigate (just the thing Willis likes to focus on). An amicable breakup is possible. Opening the relationship to allow them both to date outside of their relationship is feasible. And we haven’t even seen Walky’s reaction yet.
Also, it should be noted that Joyce isn’t necessarily enthusiastic about being sexual with a guy. A lot of her explorations were more about him touching her than the other way around. That’s definitely something Joe would notice.
I mean, taking in account yesterday how he had powerful sexual kindness that would defeat her…
Women can be bisexual, you know? She has shown to be extremely horny for Joe over several IRL years now.
Not sayIng she’s not bi, that could totally be the case.
It’s been my observation, though, that she seems less attracted to men than she is to Dorothy in particular. Based on that alone, I can’t say where she lands on the LGBT dartboard.
Does it even matter where she “lands on the LGBT dartboard”?
She’s been attracted to a number of men, but not all (and her dream from https://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/06-strange-beerfellows/thing/ indicates it’s not just because she thinks she “should” be attracted to men).
She’s attracted to Dorothy and might’ve been attracted to other women if she hadn’t repressed that aspect of herself (see also https://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/03-answers-in-hennessy/inevitable/ — the strip before the infamous “You’re still staring at them” one).
But there are both men and women she’s very much not attracted to. Walky, in particular, and also Becky (much to the latter’s earlier distress), but the vast majority of people in the comic don’t seem to register on her horny radar.
Why is there a need to assign a label if all that matters is merely which specific individuals she is and isn’t attracted to? Labels can be useful for self-identification and self-discovery, but what’s the benefit of assigning them to others?
As to your later mention of your bi friends: I don’t want to tell you what to do (and don’t know them so can’t rule out the possibility they enjoy you keeping a running tally of their male versus female romantic exploits) but personally, I generally favour just going along with whatever terminology a given friend prefers, instead of trying to calculate specific levels of attraction without their input. Besides, this doesn’t require drawing up spreadsheets to pick out the exact ratio of attractions.
Then again, maybe you like the spreadsheets? Don’t worry, there’ll always be data to spreadsheet.
Not to mention Jacob, Ethan, and that one boy from her childhood church whose house she would bike past. The one she vehemently denies ever having crushed on.
I guess I’m approaching it from the angle of, if she’s bi, is it more like a 50/50 thing, a 70/30 thing, or “only gay for one girl, straight everyone else” kinda thing (because she’s never shown interest in any other women, but said that Dorothy ‘always had [her]’, implying she was deeply in love with her for a while before their first kiss).
I don’t know, really, so I don’t want to make any declarative statements beyond the impressions and observations I’ve made.
I don’t think ratios are a great way to understand bisexuality because people aren’t ever just their gender. What proportion of people of different genders someone likes is going to depend on the sample size.
I like some guys, I like some girls, and I like some other people too.
Whether I like a particular person isn’t some sort of randomized lottery with an X% chance based on gender.
An exclusively monosexual person won’t like every person of the gender they are attracted to, but we don’t describe them as 50/0 or whatever. People only ask this question about bi people, as if men and women are somehow competing for their sexual preference.
I appreciate your perspective. But I also don’t want to misrepresent my bi friends, who at different times have expressed preferences for one gender over another. For the purposes of an internet comment, where certainty is an illusion and no one wants to wade through novel-length texts, I thought using ratios was an acceptable shorthand.
Just to add: I don’t want to accuse you of anything, and please don’t take this personally but… well, reading your comments in this thread provoked a snarky little voice in my head suggesting I ask if you remembered to put wheels on those goalposts so you wouldn’t strain yourself moving them.
That’s an uncharitable take and ignores the fact that, from a more careful reading of your comments, it seems like you’re genuinely trying to be considerate of people… but I just thought maybe you should be aware of how it could be interpreted.
(Also, it can be hard to resist the snark, so I was hoping I could get away with typing it yet disavowing it.)
Thanks for pointing out flaws, I’ll be more careful in the future. I don’t mind a little snark, it’s kinda unavoidable when people are passionate about something– especially when there’s personal experience involved. So, no worries, I don’t want to cause trouble haha.
>Joyce isn’t necessarily enthusiastic about being sexual with a guy.
You serious? She’s been having sexy dreams about Ethan. She’s been drooling over Jacob and was positively vibrating at the idea of sex with Joe. She is THIRSTY AS HELL.
Hell, there’s a strip of her lip-bitingly blushing while watching Joe’s sex tape. That girl is bi, but she’s definitely BI bi and not just some kind of obligatory/comphet bi.
She’s enthusiastic about it, but also terrified of it, which is something that’s not uncommon even in teenage girls who grew up in much less culty environments than Joyce did.
She’s given him a handjob and a blowjob in the first couple weeks dating. (And let him touch her down there.) That’s not a sign she’s not into men. For an ex-fundy, that’s speed-running it.
And, despite talking about how it would be easier, she’s done less sexually with Dorothy than Joe. Which you could blame on the shorter time, but she’s done more sexually with Joe since she kissed Dorothy.
I mean, it has been established that the Brown siblings are uncannily similar. Like, that might even work on people who don’t know Joyce and/or Jocelyn personally.
— Not “Hayes Code”-esque of people to be disappointed if a given story element doesn’t pay off in the way they hoped it would.
— Concerningly “Hayes Code”-esque of people to complain that it’s “wrong” (morally wrong) for a creator to not clearly and unambiguously condemn bad behavior within the narrative. Like, genuinely concerning! Back up a step there and reexamine your footing to make sure you’re not on a slippery slope. Fiction =! moral instruction, not should it.
— Borderline “Hayes Code”-esque of people to talk about fiction written for an adult audience as if every good thing that happens to a character is that character being rewarded for their behavior, and vice versa. Not really on the slope, not necessarily a cause for concern, but this mentality IS accepting the logic behind the Hayes Code, just doing it unconsciously.
CLARIFYING: what I mean by “accepting the logic behind the Hayes Code” is that the Hayes Code mandated that negative character actions must result in narrative punishment, and a lot of us grew up absolutely steeped in that style of storytelling to the point where it’s weird to see it subverted, but there are genuinely SO many other ways of telling stories.
(It also happened to define “being gay” as a negative character action.)
I feel like this is aimed at me and how I’m saying I don’t want the story to reward Joyce.
If it isn’t, fair dinkum. If it is-also fair dinkum, it’s a valid point.
So, first off- there’s a great little reference in one of the Wraith Squadron X-Wing novels that touches on this sort of thing. An Imperial is watching a movie about high-wire walkers and freezes on the end as the protagonist falls to his death, thinking about how “all imperial-produced media had to show the consequences of deviant behavior”.
And I’m not arguing that any mistake Joyce makes needs to be punished. Just this specific one. Because the “punishment” is the guy she cheated on getting upset and/or breaking up with her. Which is a pretty logical thing to happen when one cheats. I’m not interested in the narrative punishing her in other ways, just this one. Because Joe potentially being hurt by this is the only reason it was a mistake in the first place.
I don’t mean this to be like. Dismissive. Please don’t take it as such. But also Joe not being particularly hurt would be queerness. And yeah, like basically all the rest of queerness, it would be uncommon behavior because if it were normal it would probably not be queer. But isn’t that queer subversion of the monogamous tropes even a little interesting? Like it doesn’t have to be what you want to see, I’m not trying to tell you it should be, but… I actually think the subversion of the culturally mandated natural consequences IS an interesting queer story, with a subtler different set of consequences that befit the kinds of concerns that kind of queerness is worried about.
It doesn’t have to be a queer story you’re interested in, lord knows I am not interested in every queer story just on the basis of it being queer, but like. I don’t think the natural consequences thing is as strong as you think it is.
Joe being okay with polyamory/not being jealous absolutely would be queer and would subvert monogamy norms.
Monogamy vs polyamory isn’t the issue here. Joyce didn’t mess up because she had romantic relations with two people. She messed up because she had romantic relations while in a monogamous relationship, and then kept doing it and hid it from her partner.
I took pains to separate out just “not liking what’s happening in the story” from the specific problem of expecting negative actions to always have negative consequences, so. Unless the latter is how you feel, this comment was explicitly not about you, and I didn’t have any specific people in mind.
(If anything I started it with the intent of pushing back a little on someone I saw being too broad. Hayes Code != “not liking it when a thing happens”!)
Looking at the history of the word “robot” and especially “robotnik” is a fun little activity.
As for Robotnik himself, I can’t pass up an opportunity to shout out Long John Baldry and his iconic voice work on Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog. If you haven’t watched it before, I highly recommend it. Eggman was also briefly voiced by Jim Cummings, but so was everyone so who gives a shit really. Baldry was the best to ever do it.
I think stories do carry messages, and it is very reasonable for people to disagree with, dislike, and critique the messages in a story.
For example if a story presents a racist stereotype we don’t just shrug and say “oh, that was just that one character in the story. It isn’t making any claim about race in general”.
Stories normalize behaviors and actions. When a story presents racism without critique, it normalizes racism. When a story presents sexism by main characters without any meaningful response, the story normalizes sexism. It is a sexist story.
I understand the point, I just think it is exaggerated in the context of this comic.
There is a middle ground between the Hayes-code and “no critique ever”. That middle ground is where most people actually are. Saying people are “Hayes Code-esque” for critiquing the messaging in a piece of media is gross hyperbole.
I can go more into my critiques of how the comic covered this if you would like, but they aren’t core to the point I am making.
All I am saying right now is that it is very reasonable to critique media for having a message that you think is bad. On the other hand it is unreasonable to compare people criticizing a piece of media to legislation censoring media.
All a critic can do is say “this is bad” and not watch it. This is massively different from legislators passing a law and using the government monopoly on violence to enforce it.
Your examples don’t really connect to what’s being talked about. Different things will in fact be treated differently (i.e. racism and cheating). Racist stereotypes or sexist tropes reflect systems in place and (actively or passively) are used to further enforce it – it’s just not remotely the same as someone seeing a comic online and going “wow! I guess it’s really cool to cheat”. Like I’m sorry but that’s nothing.
(Also, plenty of people are critiquing the comic just fine without falling back on how how it’s depicting bad behavior without proper punishment or whatever – it’s not hard.)
me: “Anyway, stories that aren’t aimed at literal children don’t always have to explicitly condemn bad actions taken by the characters, and if you feel like they do or should, that’s probably because Hayes Code-era media has influenced your expectations more than you realize.”
You, for some reason: “Are you saying I’m not allowed to criticize racism in media?”
My question is whether or not that paper was published ‘today’ or ‘yesterday.’ Or more specifically did Joe know she was cheating when he got her the blanket and accepted the BJ? If so, I am probably going to be disappointed by how dumb this storyline is about to get.
very likely published 6am that morning for the physical paper, but the real question we do not have an answer for is: do they publish some form of online version, emailed or site based? if so when to they post to that?
i do not think joe was aware the previous evening. but i am also firmly in the joes being less hurt than most think and handling it like he has been with patience compassion and listening
It seems like some folks feel that Joe not castigating Joyce is the same as the *strip* saying Joyce did nothing wrong. The only thing it’s saying is she didn’t cross a line that *Joe* finds unforgivable.
It’s a dealbreaker for some folks, it’s not for others. Joe’s fears and insecurities were about *him* fucking up and hurting her. While it can seem the same it’s an entirely different kettle of fish. It’s possible her not being perfect makes it easier for him to not have to walk on eggshells.
Not saying he’s going to be, and certainly doesn’t need to be, perfectly happy and fine with all that went down but even if he is that’s not the same as saying no foul was committed.
She did what she did, people can judge it as they like, but it’s each to their own (especially when ‘they’ are fictional characters) how they choose to react.
I feel like streaming services have destroyed peoples’ ability to wait for the goddamn story. We’re one strip into Joe confronting Joyce. ONE. The fact that he’s, I don’t know, not screaming his head off about this (commenters fantasizing about a man yelling at a woman? shocker) is considered to be the story’s endorsement of Joyce’s mistakes is just…
No, you know what? I’m gonna go to my favorite restaurant for my weekly lunch. It’ll be nice to get out of the house.
While there’s nothing wrong about discussing the comic while the situation’s still playing out, too many people are acting like stereotypical 19th century paleontologists coming up with an entire imaginary creature based solely on a single fossilized claw.
It somehow only now struck me that this strip’s called “promise nothing”. While that follows the usual trend of using words from the strip as the title, it could also maybe be intended as a hint that we shouldn’t jump to conclusions?
Then again, that itself is unfounded speculation.
I don’t think this has anything to do with streaming services, but with the incredibly decompressed storytelling of this comic. The commentariat here have been this way for years.
We analyze each strip to death because we get them one at a time. People used to talk about one episode of a TV show for a week until the next one came out. Now we talk about 4 panels for a day until the next one.
We don’t even know that he doesn’t find it unforgivable yet. Not ripping her head off when she walked in the door doesn’t mean that. There’s still a whole rest of this conversation to be had.
Although all signs point to he saw this coming a mile away which is likely to temper his anger.
Frankly, it’d be pretty on-brand with his character improvement arc if he’s coming at this from “I am not about to yell at a woman who’s half my size, no matter how upset I am, so I will be very controlled about how pissed I am.”
Which might well bleed over as deadpan snark if he’s trying hard enough, like say taking a mocking tone about how he already knows she kissed Dorothy.
1: An extremely hopeless sapphic
2: Has a scoop on a weird specific detail that likely no actual major publications would talk about which will absolutely move papers due to shock value.
I actually don’t know much about Duke Nukem Forever, beyond the name being occasionally brought up as a punchline with no setup. I get the impression it wasn’t very well received, but honestly gamer memes from Back Then haven’t been a reliable source of information for me. Look how much shit Final Fantasy 13 got, for example. It was reduced to “lmao hallway” for over a decade, but I started playing it a couple months ago and it’s Fine, Actually™. Just, “we all know how that turned out” isn’t a useful metric for judging quality, is all.
It’s honestly sad. I was still in my early teens some 20+ years ago when this game was “Coming Soon” and boy was it a long and ultimately disappointing wait.
From what I understand, the best thing Duke Nukem Forever did was inspire Yahtzee’s parody review, and even that came out before the game did, so it didn’t even provide much inspiration aside from its unreasonably long development time.
Oh, just to add, if you enjoy Yahtzee’s sense of humour and want more: he left The Escapist after some management stupidity and his stuff’s now under the name Fully Ramblomatic.
(I felt obliged to add this detail mostly because I just linked to a Zero Punctuation video, which is still owned by The Escapist, but feel uncomfortable about supporting them after said management stupidity.)
Short version is that DNF despite all the hype was badly undercooked. Duke 3D — one of my very favorite games in the whole wide world, I even named my blog after it (click my name!) — emphasized exploration and open map design, visceral gameplay and a palpably gloomy atmosphere to offset its satirical leanings. DNF offered none of that, with a script that bordered on character assassination for Duke himself. It’s since been revealed that a lot of content was cut from the game, some of it totally unnecessarily. This is on top of it not even being the final iteration of the game; there’s an earlier 2001 build that never saw the light of day. There’s a project to restore all the cut content to the 2006 build (which is what eventually released) as well as reviving the 2001 build.
Right? Honestly, the worst part about DNF is that Duke went from “Parody of action movie tropes” in D3D to “edgelord for the sake of sexist edge” in DNF.
It was like they decided that his entire character arc was going to mirror Kevin Sorbo’s real-life tragedy or something.
Well, I didn’t think Joe’d be up for a polycule, but he seems more amused than anything else at her guilty antics. And he doesn’t look like he wants to break up either. Even then, I still don’t see Dorothy going for it. Well, maybe in an “everybody’s casual” relationship kinda way. She certainly didn’t seem jealous about Joyce getting “distracted” either.
i mean, you’re talking like the story has concluded, it’s only getting started. this is just the appetizer, i suspect the sickos are about to eat damn well in the coming days.
Well, it’s here, the exact part of this plot I have been waiting to determine if I’m going to keep reading this comic or not. This whole plot line has been genuinely painful for me. For one, the active character assassination of Joyce who we have watched develop over time to learn to properly communicate the way she wants her emotions to be perceived has been heart breaking. Second It is increasingly painful to see the plot thread of “Bisexuals always cheat.” come about in this comic, a place I had originally seen as a safe have from these types of tropes that actively hurt my community. Third, it’s clear this was strictly done to cause drama, between the backdrop of a protest that actually happened int he real world, to the fact willis admitted he originally planned for this ship to sail in a couple years but got tired of the wait, sacrificing character development and a good story, just to have drama? This comic isn’t fun to read anymore, and hasn’t been since this plot started.
So first off, if you’re done with the comic then you’re done. I hope you find something better to occupy your time with and genuinely hope you feel better.
But I have to say:
1) Joyce is still communicating her emotions. She’s just communicating emotions you don’t want her to be feeling. I think she communicated just fine to Dorothy, and is now talking to Joe the next day. It’s a hard topic for her, but she’s muddling through it anyway (in a comical fashion because this is a comic.
2) One bisexual couple out of all the bisexuals in this comic is hardly “bisexuals always cheat”. It’s “these specific two bisexual people cheated” which does happen and is not unreasonable to include in a comic strip where there are several other very chill bisexual couples also being written: Ruth&Jason, Billie&Alice (new!), Danny&Sal, Asher&Ethan, Malaya&Marcie, etc. Bisexuals don’t always cheat, obviously, but they don’t never cheat, either.
3) Willis has already accepted critique on the protest problem and is actively fixing it as we speak. Short of going back in time to unwrite things, I’m not sure what more you expect them to do. It was fucked up, they owned it, apologized, and are making strides to put it right. They just don’t happen overnight.
Your last point is basically just “I disagree with how the writer chose to write their storylines and characters” which is an opinion you’re totally free to have and I have no pushback or debate on that. If you don’t like it, you don’t like it.
To add to that: Joyce’s developed over time mostly through personal (and often painful) experience. This is a thing she doesn’t have personal experience with… Remember how bad she was at so much basic social stuff when the strip began? We get to reexperience that!
1. I’m cool with her having feelings for Dorothy my guy. It’s a natural thing to develop feels for someone that close to you and I genuinely love it. My problem how it was forcefully developed for drama. Again even willis came out and said their love story was meant to have way more development, and I personally think that was the way to go. Communication was needed to more parties then Dorothy. If anything, the talk were having currently with Joe should of happened first. Not after.
2. But they didn’t half to cheat to get to the current story did they? Infact the current story literally would of came to the same result if the characters just talked, drama could have come from other angels. It didn’t need our main characters to cheat. That’s what makes it part of the trope.
3. Your correct. The protest thing is as best handled as it can be.
tbh dorothy and joyce have always dressed fairly similarly (see the sweatervest gag) so i am not surprised that most of us did not notice LOL ik i certainly didnt!!
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they’re in the newspaper
they’re in the FRONT PAGE OF THE NEWSPAPER
now everyone knows or is gonna know
including Becky
……
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
To those of you who predicted this… y’all called it. Bravo and well played, comrades. 🤣
bruh I was JUST about to say that XD
10,000 points to all of them, like, DAAAAMN
Let’s be real, it was inevitable since the whole reason Dorothy and Joyce went to the protest was because the news caught Jocelyn on camera.
Someone who is not me should go through the time stamps on the coments and see who called it first.
For Science.
Okay. Let’s pretend I’m not me. https://www.dumbingofage.com/2025/comic/book-15/04-the-only-exception/live-jocelyne-reaction/#comment-1900034
Your contribution to science is noted and appreciated.
Ok the reply to that comment is an extremely good point though. We live in the Internet age. Why did it take this long?
Yeah, i had a similar thing happening and my partner’s “i already know” was within ten minutes or so.
Maybe the picture has been live all the time but nobody bothers looking at the news online?
Dramatic tension.
Someone called this happening quite a while before the kiss even happened. I remember thinking and commenting that it was outlandish at the time. Egg on my face, I guess. Can’t remember who or when though
Yeah, Throwatron mentioned it first in this thread, but later they also talk about the paper thing as if it was discussed as a possible story outcome since Jocylene’s photo.
So I guess someone should go and look day by day and search for keywords like “paper” and “photo”.
…. Oh who am I kidding. Be back in a sec.
As far as I can tell, this is the earliest one. Said the moment that Dorothy expressed that she was coming along.
Made by CianM1301 on June 16 at 3:16 AM.
Cian’s also outlined a major conflict that’ll happen in the next six months or so, which is clearly going to happen because it was foretold in the prophecy.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2025/comic/book-15/04-the-only-exception/locate/#comment-1890609
Though that initial post says “Joyce and Jocelyne are gonna end up on the front page” and the rest of the framing of the conflict seems to be around Jocelyne.
Nymph responds to that comment with:
“5) They kiss at the protest and it makes local news.”
Though that was later in the day and I don’t know if it was first.
!!!
User cbwroses says, at 12:39 AM CST, like two hours earlier.
“ They’re not going to go through a raucous adventure together and end up like that picture of the sailor kissing that woman when he came back from the war are they (though this one would be consensual albeit caught up in the heat of the moment)?
I don’t know why, but that’s where my mind went to”
Unless anyone has anything earlier I suspect this is our inception. And how on the nose it is, too.
Although yes, it does look like Nymph was the one who connected the idea of “being caught by local news” and “kissing”.
….. doesn’t surprise me in the least. 🙂
You have definitely missed an earlier claim that they were going to kiss at the protest and have it get picked up by the news (or I’m hallucinating) because I think at the time I was repeating a theory I’d heard before that I thought was really likely!!
I might be the inception but I don’t think I am!
I mentioned the kiss ending up in the newspaper when Joyce and Dorothy brought up the idea of going to the protest for Jocelyne, if not earlier lol.
I commented that it would go down just like the Canadian couple who were photographed kissing at a hockey riot in 2011.
I have no idea when I posted that, but it was a while ago.
April 16
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2025/comic/book-15/03-me-and-who-you-say-i-was-yesterday/all-right/
I dunno how to link to the specific comment but you can ctrl + F your name.
It was this strip. Willis namechecked you in the Patreon comments today, said you really freaked him out.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2025/comic/book-15/03-me-and-who-you-say-i-was-yesterday/all-right/
And wouldn’t you know it, immediately after Justin’s prediction, the very first Relationship Paladin took up arms to protect cartoon monogamy.
Hey! That’s the one I saw that prompted me to bring it up again when the protest got close!
Thanks for finding it Astariel!
I completely forgot I made that prediction immediately after making it. I only remembered after reading Clif’s request for who called it.
I promise to only use my psychic powers for good in the future, Willis!
Speaking of Jocelyn being caught on camera: the tags indicate she had been this time too (though I can’t zoom in close enough to see her).
No idea if that’ll affect anything.
Her face is probably right around where it says Kiss on the paper since that’s roughly where she is in the original panel of the comic when the kiss happened.
Thank you; somehow I didn’t think to go back and check.
It’s not copy-and-paste, but yes, it matches.
Wait a minute – the last panel was changed! Right? I don’t remember that line about making out at a genocide protest being there before.
Only noticed this now, but…
Meagan: yes, David Willis came to the conclusion that a strip that made it seem like a genocide protest was merely a cosmetic backdrop might not be in the best of taste.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2025/comic/book-15/04-the-only-exception/live-jocelyne-reaction/#comment-1913765 hints at when the change occurred.
right? I wasn’t aware this was a speculation… ~<3
GOOD NEWS: Now Hank will be distracted from learning about Jocelyne. Good job, Joyce! 😀
So am I like, the ONLY person here who totally missed this?
Really?
I mean, not over-egging it – but it seemed really obvious!
I’ve never won anything in my life except this. How and for what can I redeem these points?!
It was pointed out after the fact and…damn. The shoe has dropped
Honestly I was 90% sure as soon as The Kiss happened, and yes I am feeling veeery satisfied.
I don’t think I called newspaper specifically, but I did lay odds that the joke they were building up to was “yes, Joe already knows and doesn’t seem to bothered by it.” Which does indeed appear to be what is happening.
Called it! As long as I’m on a roll, I predict that images of that kiss are also going viral on social media, where Joyce’s parents can see it, which may or may not somehow involve them finding out about Jocelyne.
*plays “Cometh The Hour” from Bleach: Hell Verse*
I confess I was expecting the next storyline, but of course they would post it next morning: it was a huge and important protest. Like, why not?
And not only was it a huge important protest, it was a photo of two girls kissing, received by the horny, pent up, newspaper editor.
I was just thinking about the how strong the image of two women kissing while police launch tear gas is for underlining a narrative of disproportionate response. It’s a classic trope for reporting on crackdowns against gay rights protests. Nevermind how intense that kiss was and all the emotions that were running over their faces in the moment of that kiss making it likely a great photo on it’s own.
But then you point out that such a perfect photo was delivered to Daisy, of course she’s gonna put it on the front. page.
Absolutely front page.
AND she’s gonna assign a reporter or two to go interview the kissin’ gals.
(*enter, stage right, billifer)
Alternatively; it would be SO funny if daisy doesn’t actually recognize Dorothy from the back and asks her to go find and interview the couple involved, opening with something ala “hey Dorothy do you know who these two girls are?
And if they’re looking for a third?”It’s a strong image and definitely something Daisy would want to highlight. OTOH, we also had AG beating up cops all over the place which is probably even more newsworthy and which Daisy would also have an interest in.
Amazi Girl fighting the police is certainly newsworthy, though if you are siding with the students protestors depicting a student using violence to resist the police is not as effective an image as the lovers under fire image.
If you want the neutral readers to support Amazi Girl front page is the police launching tear gas at girls kissing to rile people up and then Amazi Girl punching cops in response goes below the fold or on a later page. It also makes the pictures seen by a reader chronologically accurate.
it wasn’t a crackdown on a gay rights protest.
I’m shocked we haven’t already been able to hear Beck screaming throughout the last few comics
Her scream is currently so high-pitched that only dogs and mosquitos can hear it.
And certain dinosaurs.
Becky never reads the news except to look at the comics, and even then only Joyces.
The front page is hard to ignore tho
Are we sure Becky didn’t already know? She kinda had to already pick up the vibes happening between Joyce and Dorothy.
I feel certain she didn’t. Joyce had made it clear to Becky that she didn’t feel the same way, and to Becky, sexuality was something that could never change and was simply a part of who you were. Which is why she freaked out when Leslie challenged that assumption in gender studies.
My guess is that she’s spent so long thinking of Joyce and Dorothy as really good friends and “rivals” for best friend, that she’s recontextualized any of those vibes as just her own interpretation.
She did seem to think Joyce was about to come out to her in the strip where Joyce tells her about her autism diagnosis.
There’s still a difference between “picking up the vibes” and knowing that they’ve acted on those vibes. The vibes have been going on for awhile and Becky hasn’t seen Dorothy or Joyce since the Kiss.
Actually, strike that. She did have one scene with Dorothy afterwards and she did react a bit strangely, though it could have been just to the difference in how Dorothy was acting than when she was all depressed that morning.
Becky knew that night, when Dorothy returned to there room. She kept asking if ANYTHING had happened, with a knowing grin.
I’m guessing the pictures went viral almost immediately.
Everyone who regularly reads the school newspaper at least. I know when I went to college I rarely read the newspaper.
Counterpoint — I rarely read the newspaper, but I would have been able to tell you if the front page was a single huge image, because the newspaper was inevitably scattered everywhere.
pulitzer prize for best makeouts y/y?
For these modern times, that photo calls back to that famous photo of the sailor kissing a woman in NY Times Square when WWII was declared over.
(pulitzer for whichever student photog got it)
So did Dina already know when Dorothy stopped by?
I’m starting to think probably lol
Counterpoint, it’s the school newspaper, like 10% of campus knows tops.
Having been the chief photographer and also delivery person (and thus also having to take away last week’s copies left in the racks) of my college newspaper, can confirm, even back in 2003.
Yes, but what’s the readership for the students who are friends with one of the newspaper’s cartoonists and with one of the reporters?
Also, if you do even glance at it and the front page has a pic of someone you know, it’s likely to get pointed out and spread around to the rest of your acquaintances.
printed press IS a dying breed lol
Becky is going to take this so hard, man.
Indeed. :/ Joe actually seems to be taking it surprisingly well (I’m not sure if this means he IS indeed open to a poly relationship, if he thinks it was just Joyce being Joyce-y, whether he’s internalizing some SERIOUS angst right now, or whether there’s still enough of the old Joe in him going “Booyah, two hot girls kissing! Threesome next??”), but I’m worried over how Becky will take this given how Becky has never truly stopped carrying a torch for Joyce.
yep….and her mom is totally going to see it…
Don’t worry, Becky can’t read!
…right?
I actually appear in a photo with a (at the time former) SO that made it to the front page of various newspapers.
Alas the reason was that she had falsely accused her husband of rape and kidnapping her, while forging his signature to papers at a fertility clinic so she could get pregnant by someone else. It took a while for this all to come out and the DA saw his chance to make his name, since the husband was worth something like $250M at the time. It… did not work out well for anyone in the end.
Lesson learned: even if someone is a fabulous social dance partner, if they’re a sociopath and a trophy wife, do not take things off the dance floor.
Your Us get cut off by the sidebar. This is comedy.
2a) DESTROY EVERY COPY OF THIS NEWSPAPER BEFORE BECKY SEES
The next comic arc is Joyce gathering the Infinity Stones for this purpose.
OK but what is destroying half of the newspapers gonna do.
The gauntlet doesn’t just destroy half of things, that’s just Thanos’s fetish.
Ana beat me to it, but HOLY HECK BECKY IS TOTALLY GOING TO KNOW. Which really reframes Dorothy’s interactions with Dina a few strips ago. I found it odd how glued Dina was to her phone. Which means Dina knows about the kiss too but chose not to bring it up to Dorothy when they came to check up on Amber.
My inner sicko is HOWLING and FEASTING on this storyline drama!!!
Like Galactus, the sicko clan shall feast like never before.
NOM!
We are consuming entire universes in this multiverse smorgasbord.
Would Dina read the school newspaper?
It does not seem to fall into her sphere of interests, to put it mildly.
chances are she may have seen it on her way to the convenience store or something
ya don’t necessarily have to seek out the newspaper to see the front page XD
Dang, this explains some of Dina’s facial expressions when she was talking to Dorothy…OK, it’s already been noted that she knows…
Although, if Joe and Joyce wind up staying together, I guarantee he’s keeping a copy and having it framed.
Wouldn’t you?
Hell, if Willis sold prints I’d do it irl.
Real copies of fictional newspapers would actually be really cool merch.
In 2015, there were printings of the newspaper from Back to the Future 2!
Ops
Oh, I thought they would premiere the kiss on TV, like preview panels shows.
But kiss bombings goodbye is SUCH a good headline lmaooo
I believe it’s “GOODBI,” Which is better yet.
You can tell Daisy was masturbating furiously when she came up with it.
if i don’t see daisy in-panel and fully dressed, i actually assume that’s what she’s doing at every given time.
Although wildly inappropriate given the context… unless of course the protest somehow managed to actually end the genocide in which case a bit of silly rejoicing might be justified.
It would have been such a missed opportunity if Willis hadn’t.
[wild insane cackling throughout the multiverse]
[adds his own maniacal laughter to the magnificent and terrible cacophony]
YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAS
[additional wild cackling ensues]
That’s one way to… break the news.
You break it, you buy it.
when the news breaks…
…we fix it
HELP?????????????????????????????????
I don’t know why but this comment has me nearly sobbing from laughing so hard, I hope you know how much joy this brought me my god
Is the gravatar part of it? I bet the gravatar was part of it
Joe please we’ve been through this Joe, quit trying to take Sal’s spot as my favorite DoA character, Joe
Joe’s just a chill guy
Joe wants this to work. He’s familiar with the appeal of having multiple people to do sexy stuff with, he’s absolutely considered the possibility that Joyce might want to do some sort of polyamorous thing with Dorothy, and I doubt he ever specifically said he wouldn’t be okay with that. He doesn’t want Joyce to lie to him, but he seems to be looking for some sort of way to get from here to an outcome they can both be happy with.
Joyce, of course, has her own plans. Which raises the question of if she’ll actually stick with them.
He’s being so damn smooth here. A++.
And not even smooth in the ways-to-get-things sense. Totally smooth just for its own sake. The Platonic Ideal of smooth.
Love the concept of being Platonically Smooth with someone without it defaulting into flirtatious territory. We need to normalize this like yesterday.
“platonically smooth” is actually the vibe im shooting for in 100% of my relationships
i am not succeeding! but we try out here!
I KNEW IT!!! HE KNEW!!!!
does this means he knew whilst they was weenusing
Probably not, since that was before the publishing of the paper (which at this point is probably only hours old)
Joe looks like a disappointed dad in the last panel
Is that good? Bad? Genuinely asking because I don’t have much experience in disappointing my parents (they’re chill)
anyways that’s a sick newspaper cover, aside from the publicized cheating
Compared to how people have been claiming it would go since the kiss happened, its good. Disappointed is better then Angry or Heartbroken in this scenario.
As I have been saying since the kiss happened, they have not been in a relationship for long enough for actual full blown love to form, they are in the puppy love phase at 2 weeks into the relationship. This was never going to be some massive meltdown like people think its gonna be.
Amusing to think that puppy love can’t lead to meltdowns.
Not as long or as devastating as a long term relationship, but the people involved are rarely saying “This doesn’t matter. It’s just puppy love”.
I didn’t say it couldn’t lead to a Meltdown, just not a massive one lol.
Joe isn’t gonna be crashing out over this.
It raises the floor on negative reactions quite a bit that he’s this calm about it, so good for Joyce certainly.
Could still end up going badly, but there’s much worse ways your boyfriend could break the news that he saw you smooching a girl on the front page of the newspaper.
I said this yesterday, but it’s more relevant today: He had this newspaper in his possession and greeted her with “Hey😁” still.
Polycule stocks on the rise!
Did he? I thought the bombing only happened yesterday in DoA Time, so the paper would have been printed today.
Unless I’M losing track of time now.
Nymph is refering to our yesterday. Yesterday’s strip
I am indeed lol. Time dilation is a funny beast.
👀
More relevantly, look at Joe in panel 4.
He’s amused.
Not exactly the look of someone with a broken heart.
I definitely agree he looks smugly amused in panel 4
maybe we’re about to find out he’s the one who actually won the betting pool?
that’s where he got the cash for the blanket. so romantic.
That would honestly be fucking hilarious. I would laugh like a hyena for a solid 20 seconds if that came to pass.
that isnt disapointed dad, thats dad revelling in dad humour %1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000%
joe has been so aware of this possibility, and it looks like he os going to handle it like a champ………..(don’t know why typing this has caused this to popintpo the head but…..)
“and knowing is half the battle! GO JOE!”
Joe has been down bad for Joyce for so long, it’s genuinely possible he has been psyching himself up for this specific potentiality from before they were even officially dating, lmao
Oh my God that headline
I can’t read it. What does it say?
‘KISS BOMBINGS GOODBYE’
“Protestors [something] Kiss Bombings Goodbye”
*goodbi
Did it get edited since being posted? It says Goodbi now.
No, it said Goodbi when it was posted on the Patreon too. It’s just really small text.
It might be “protestors say…”
Yeah that’s my squinty guess too.
There’s also a subtitle below that I can’t read at all 👀
PROTESTERS SAY KISS BOMBING GOODBI: if You Can Read This You’re Making $#!+ Up
Exclusive AmaziGirl Pics on Page 2.
KISS BOMBINGS GOODBI
amazing
The real question is what’s asterisked under GOODBI*
Hard to tell at this zoom level but I think it’s an endquote, not an asterisk:
PROTESTERS SAY “KISS BOMBINGS GOODBI”
There IS a line under it tho. We need an HD version.
Daisy Pulitzer when?
Since both people answering you missed the pun, it’s actually “Goodbi”, as in bisexual
LOL! I bet Daisy was ALL IN on that! 😀 (while also being depressed that she wasn’t the one getting smooched)
didn’t miss it, just misread it first
We’ve had photobombing, now we have kiss bombing.
Oh Hank is going to absolutely lose his mind. Or worse, if her mom sees it before Hank does. That’s 3 for 4 kids, right?
Absolutely 2 for 4 for sure. Jordan is still a bit up in the air. It’s possibly he’s LGBT+ and that’s why he’s excommunicated from the family, but with the type of fundie Joyce’s parents are, I think odds are equal that Jorden just like… became wiccan or started practicing Buddhism and they’d be just as upset/cut him off/whatever has happened to Jordan.
We’ve been given such sparse info on jordan, that I’m p sure the hints we did get do point to him being some form of nonhet. I wonder if this arc will be a way for him to become plot relevant, even.
I want Jordan to be poly just so the people who are hoping for the thruple to have some content.
Thank you. I really appreciate that.
Honestly, for all we know it could have been something as minor as choosing a major they didn’t like or going to a secular school… I wouldn’t be shocked if it was something microscopic that Carol (and yes, Hank) blew up into a whole-ass thing and then came down vice-like on the rest of the offspring.
Hell, I’ve got a friend whose parents did exactly that to him. His older brother went off the deep end, and their response was to make sure he never stepped a single toe out of line.
In my youth I knew a couple of Mormon kids who opted out. At 16 or so they decided that the Mormon church was just not for them. Their parents were disappointed, but didn’t act like monsters. They didn’t kick their kids out, they just stopped waking them for church on Sundays. It makes sense. If you want your kid to come back to the fold, don’t push them further away. Make it easy for them to return if they want to. By contrast, I also know a few people whose religious parents went full inquisition when their kids had problems fitting into the faith. It just tore the family apart.
Oh, it’s worse than that with Jordan. He became Catholic.
*does the cross out of sheer horror*
Okay… that actually would make an insane amount of sense. I wouldn’t be shocked if this ends up being the reason.
Hank said Jordan was a good kid so he’s not secretly a child molester or something that would horrify Joyce.
Oh I’ve never imagined Jordan ever did anything genuinely wrong… just something that disappointed his parents. And given how some fundies feel about Catholics, it would not shock me if that was a bridge too far for Mr. and Mrs. Brown at the time (though it seems like Hank may have softened since the original incident.)
A lot of them don’t even think Catholics are Christian.
ooooohhhhhhhh i love this!
(or willis maybe had Jordan take option z Zoroasterism)
I would love some religious defection to be part of Jordan’s enigmatic estrangement.
I’d prefer if Jordon was just done with their shit. No big reason is given because there isn’t one to point to. He just butted heads with his folks (and his siblings’ apologia for same) until noping out felt like a weight off his shoulders.
Though that may still point to being on the spectrum. Low bullshit tolerance, antisocial tendencies, an aversion to calling his dang siblings.
unironically now hoping for “Jordan’s a normal straight white Christian man, he just realized his family were insane fundies and cut ties to be a normal religious person in a normal religious community” as the reason we don’t see him. it’s the absolute funniest outcome.
Why would Hank be reading a student newspaper, though?
Oh wait no Mary’s going to report this back to Joyce’s mom somehow.
And force her to transfer….To YALE
he is an alumni and/or maybe has gotten an online subscription to the paper as his daughter is attending the school as a way to less intrusively be aware of what is happenning at her school. the question is, did any other less local news also publish a pic of the event. if the student paper has it there is a probability increase that other news outlets may have picked it up.
So is Carol a closeted bi or is Hank /hj? I ask because that’s a really high proportion of LGBT kids in one family. My family also has a really high proportion (100% bi or lesbian among the AFAB, only one dude in the entire family and he’s straight) and it appears to be hereditary from our mom.
1. I know the /j means joking… but what does /hj mean?
2. I read AFAB as “all fabulous” at first before my brain corrected itself.
It means hand job obviously.
Serious answer: half joking.
2. you read it correctly, that’s what it means now.
there’s a meme i saw a few months back and saved, hold it near and dear to my heart… “don’t matter if you’re afab or amab, we’re all acab here!”
“assigned cop at birth”?
All cops are bastards
That seemed weird in context: “we’re all acab here”?
I think Carol would sooner gnaw her own hands off but I can see Hank be closeted bi. Like the kind of guy who’d be like “yeah I once thought my classmate was handsome, but I wasn’t gay about it. It’s not gay to gaze adoringly at another man. It’s only gay if you suck dick.”
Now that’s just another thing that Joyce and Walky have in common B)
Oh yeah, my immediate family has the L, G, B, T and Q. Plus homophobic dad
my money is more on the hank is comfortable in his sexuality enough to go “that dudes hot” without it causing him to reach for the corn starch, but carol…………yeah there is very likely some closeted shit in her if i am the one asked
…….What if Jordan was a furry………
then that means he runs the internet, and we owe them a debt of gratitude
oh my god, it’s like an inverse of when roz went viral at the start of the comic…
LMFAO
The fact that Joe knows and has cracked some smiles/smirks this strip and the last is.. a good thing?
It’s almost like the thing that Joyce has done, while definitely bad, is not the end of the world worst most irredeemable possible thing any human being could ever do and there’s a possibility that some people can actually be mature about it, talk things out and work through them or something. It’s crazy, I know.
In all seriousness, if Joe can handle this situation in a way that’s both more mature than Joyce, AND more mature than most of the audience has been, it would just be amazing to see.
so far he’s managed to be more mature than dorothy, and golly don’t THAT sting
Dorothy really wants moral superiority as her vice of choice, which is kind of sad.
Right? Try weed already, god dang.
I dunno, I went back to look at the “earliest prediction it’d be in the paper” and definitely saw someone claim cheating is irredeemable and compared people who say “I don’t mind when fictional characters do shitty things” to saying that Blaine and Ross were justified or something? Or at least claiming what they did was “okay” because they’re fictional?
Which like…. Yeah, it’s okay that Blaine and Ross are shitty people because they are fictional and if they were not awful people, this story would not have had that conflict and be much more boring? That’s how stories work.
I will point out something that may not have occurred to anyone prior.
Joe is one of the most sexually experienced people in this comic. He knows, first hand, that sex is not the end all and be all of a relationship, and that people can be sexually attracted to many different people at once.
That, in and of itself, tends to go a long way to not worrying so much about one’s partner having other partners.
Like, he had to go to Roz for advice on sex stuff.
Not because he really trusts her, or because he thinks she’s a great person to ask;
But, because she’s actually the only person he knows, who has more experience with sex than he does.
You mean he’s not going to go back to sexually harassing women and it’ll be ALL JOYCE’S FAULT and not the tiniest bit the responsibility of any man ever, especially Joe?
People have been lauding over Joe’s “growth” for like a year or two now IRL, and yet everyone is also still consistently shocked when he acts like it.
I think so, too. He already knew and nothing in his demeanor indicates anger. I feel like, if Joyce can keep her cool, they’ll actually be able to talk through this.
I think he is at least slightly angry. The “I promise nothing sexy will ensue”, although clearly helpful for Joyce, feels very ominous when we discover he knew…
Now, he looks smug as well, so maybe he wants to say he is disappointed (especially about not having been told last night), but that it’s not necessarily the end.
o do not see any anger in joes posture or expression, horniestly i really think it is 80% amusment 10%joy in joyces’ joy and 10% arousal
lmao
Joe’s reaction is so interesting because he’s so… blasé about it. I especially like it due to the comments that theorized Joe was going to go scorched earth because of Joyce and instead he’s just like “yeah you kissed her”. Does this automatically mean he isn’t upset? Nah, I’m sure he’s a bit rankled, but he’s definitely not… “my world view is shattered, love is a lie, women are all meany weenies and I’m gonna go back to treating women like conquests” about it either.
Yeah, that theory never held a lot of water for me. I really didn’t think Joe was such a small man as to let a single heartbreak turn him into some kind of incel/manosphere spiral. Because you know, most human beings who experience heartbreak do not turn into supervillians afterwards. The decent ones at least.
I don’t think he’ll backslide into being a dudebro again, but I also think he might not date anymore at all after this.
He’s seemingly taking this well, but then he’s been masking for most of his life so he could be hiding how he really feels to spare Joyce.
incels are not supervillains, they’re bigoted shitheads who occasionally make good on the promises of violence they keep making
Incels are misogynistic shitheads with a sense of entitlement. They thought being a straight male meant they have privileges, and they resent finding out they don’t, at least not as many as they thought.
They seem to be rather unintelligent as a rule as well.
or have an inflated view of their int/cha stats, i’ve known a few that seem to have at least avg levels of intelligence (don’t struggle in maths or science any more than the median of people) but enviroment and entitlement have caused their views to warp, thankfully those ones do tend to be recoverable. just need enough exposure to the wider world
They are in general deeply average, or should I say mediocre.
i would but it that it is the ones thart make the news that are so skewing of the profile, simply because the ones who are more likely to be recoverable are less likely to hit the point of being newsworthy, that the pirciple of the vocal minority can be applied here
PSA Please keep talking to any young folk in your lives, it is how we prevent them from decending too far into rabbit holes
He was never going to spiral, but he was absolutely going to be deeply hurt by it. I think a lot of the people wishcasting for dark spiral for Joe just want the comic to be more dramatic than it is.
I remain concerned about the latter, as one of the previews shows him apparently being Mean at Dina. But his attitude here does point away from that.
Maybe he’s defending Joyce from “you upset Becky” allegations
Previews?
Presumably some Patreon perk. I wish they were never discussed here, as I hate spoilers.
On social media such as tumblr or bluesky, Willis sometimes shares preview panels that are basically dated panels without any dialogue! I find them far easier to find on the dumbingofage tumblr because you just have to type ‘preview panels’ into the search bar. Blue Sky is more difficult. Here’s the one being referenced here:
https://dumbingofage.tumblr.com/post/774252857760317441/january-1-2026
Yeah, they’re very much not a Patreon perk!
Honestly, nothing is a TRUE Patreon-only perk. The unused strip posts just get posted early there, same as the regular strips, and the bonus strips are published in the anthologies.
(I don’t mean to imply Willis isn’t sharing anything worthwhile with his Patrons sjlfkdsjf I just mean, nothing is really paywalled forever. The few bonus strips that have become Really Important have also been made public, though you do have to know to go looking!)
I understood Li, but thanks for the clarification. That was thoughtful.
Oh I didn’t necessarily think anyone would misunderstand, I just felt crappy for saying it that way 😭
The Other Patreon has true Patreon-only perks though.
That could be him walking away from someone off panel and Dina is upset by what one or both said.
Wow, this is super interesting. I’m not a tumblr person, but this kind of spoils things…for example, from the May 22, 2026 preview, we know that Joyce and Walky are still (or again) talking to each other, and don’t like super angry. Walky looks sort of playfully amused.
Fortunately he’s also had time to think about it and isn’t just having a break bombshell dropped on him
OTOH, in almost any cheating/relationship drama situation, finding out from other sources before you’re told by your partner is a bad sign.
Joe can probably relate to the experience of having one’s problematic sexual behavior become wildly published.
True!
Willis is always doing crazy amounts of character foils between so many different characters across so many different storylines, and here is just one more for the pile.
I didn’t and don’t think he’ll be nuclear about it, but this interaction ain’t over yet. There could be some quiet scorn lurking under there, especially that panel 4 face.
Scorn doesn’t seem likely, knowing what we do of Joe. I think he’s just enjoying the opportunity to be snarkily tease Joyce… which, in turn, may be a way to derail the panic she might experience (because, while Joe tends to be calm and level-headed, Joyce very much doesn’t).
Yeah it seems more like teasing to me. Who knows, maybe this is helping Joe take her down off a pedestal and feel more like they are equals.
Which doesn’t rule out him also feeling hurt.
I didn’t expect him to go scorched earth, but this doesn’t feel like all of it. He said one time he didn’t think he was allowed to feel jealousy, which isn’t the same thing as wouldn’t feel jealous or hurt. Or maybe he’s been self-sabotaging.
or whatever. feels like a lot of groundwork was laid and then scuttled to accelerate the story.
My feeling is that the guilt that led to his current behavior will lead him to forgive Joyce if she decides that her relationship with Joe is important (which doesn’t necessarily mean breaking off the one with Dorothy; they’re two separate issues). He’ll certainly be taking the piss out of her for eternity over this. How things develop in the future remains to be seen.
While I can understand the worry he would backslide, he was changing BEFORE he was dating Joyce, he isn’t going to become Chauvinist 2: Electric Boogaloo because of her.
While he’s playing this off I don’t doubt he is very hurt by it, even if he’s not all that surprised.
Even if he became Chauvinist 2: Electric Boogaloo, it wouldn’t be because of her. (I suspect you know this, but I’m using your comment as an excuse to talk to the people in the comments who don’t.)
He knows Joyce. She hasn’t been lying to him – Joyce is, as established, a TERRIBLE liar – so he doesn’t feel betrayed. He gets that she’s feeling new things, and is reacting to those new feelings in a distinctly Joyce way. Dorothy was close to her long before Joe was, so he’s kind of used to sharing Joyce time with her anyway. I think he sees some renegotiation is in order, but he likes being around her, and doesn’t want to burn bridges.
She hasn’t technically been lying to him, but she also hasn’t been honest.
He knows she didn’t come clean to him when he saw her last night.
I’d say lying by omission still counts, I’ve never heard anyone but little kids think it doesn’t count unless you get directly asked.
I’ve been calling “Joe’s reaction is ‘keep on trajectory of self-improvement, call out Joyce for going worse after helping him go better” for a while now, and I feel like that’s still a strong possibility.
He probably thinks it’s hot.
OH.
WELL.
so this will is gonna be interesting
I FUCKING KNEW IT!!! (I’m really happy Joe’s taking this in stride so far. Good sign that this might not be the end times for Joe & Joyce as friends or even a polycule. …that or Joe’s about to break up with her.)
Consequences? Who is that? Never heard of her.
Oh there will be consequences, I have a feeling that Joe is about to break up with her, before she gets the chance. Dude wasn’t IN LOVE with her, it was still the Puppy Love stages.
Yeah I was going to post that Joyce can’t break up with Joe if he does it first. But I think on the one hand Joe can’t blame Joyce because he’s spent his own time being a man (bongo? Idk if wh*re is censored too) that it’d be hypocritical. He knows she loves him and has been repressed and suppressing feelings/urges. He also did learn from Leslie’s class last semester. He also already confronted Dorothy. Now he might still be hurt, though, privately. My first marriage my ex hooked up with my childhood best friend. I didn’t have anything against him (we were open/polyamorous) but my friend lied to me and is dead to me. Has been for 15+ years.
Joe can 100% blame her because the issue isn’t “having relations with multiple people” but rather being dishonest.
Sleeping around isn’t a problem if it is up-front, honest, and consensual. Joe’s issue was the misogynistic objectification, not the casual sex.
Joe never cheated on anyone.
Joe was absolutely in love with her, but this mY have easily put the bloom off the rose.
Love like that doesn’t form in 2 weeks, not the “In Love” kind, that takes a lot longer.
He did have Some love for her, thats obvious, but loving somebody is not the same as being In Love.
First of all, it absolutely can, second of all he was in love with her before they got together lol.
Yes, I do feel it weird that suddenly, everybody is not acknowledging this. Joe and Joyce were in secret courtship since, IIRC, before the time-skip at least? It was technically platonic in every official way, but they were getting extremely close and emotionally intimate in their conversations, and that was laid out pretty clearly, I think.
I mean… I always thought there would be consequences since the whole point of this is drama… but now I am not so sure.
It really seems like Joe is willing to give Joyce a pass on this whole thing. Maybe he is a little annoyed but he still is mostly treating it as “adorkable hijinks”.
It seems like for Joe the most we might get is “this hurt me” and an amicable break up.
Then maybe we will get drama from Becky, but that relies on Becky being kinda immature so it will more look bad on Becky rather than Joyce.
Walky does still exist you know.
Okay, but we’ve also seen Walky be unable to grow a spine so many times, so we’re just used to that never actually happening. I think he may have some cutting remarks for Dorothy, but I think any meltdown he has, will possibly be kept more to himself?
He could prove me wrong! But I don’t know if that’s where he’s at, lately.
Yup, Joyce and Dorothy will be doing damage control for the rest of the storyline; not to mention Becky. Just Becky.
We’re almost to the consequences. I would be surprised if Joe and Joyce stay a couple after this.
I think most specifically, Joe would probably want to still be a couple, even with his prior baggage, because he has seen the writing on the wall and would give Joyce a pass if it seemed like she truly wanted to be with him more than Dorothy. But honestly, I think he knows as much or more than she does that she wants to be with Dorothy, and giving a pass here would mean this just crops up again in the future, possibly repeatedly.
Remember: We have yet to encounter Becky… Or Mary.
Kiss Bombings Goodbi
You know Daisy came up with that one.
oh my god
HAHAHAHA nooooooooo that’s FUCKED
Huh. I guess the newspaper addicts were right.
I mean, when Billie said that the AGGRESSIVELY LESBIAN editor of the newspaper was covering the protest, it was pretty obvious. That’s heavy foreshadowing.
Let’s not be sore winners over something with such incredibly low stakes.
I knew Daisy would put it on the front page of the school newspaper.
“Boss, I got a photo of two girls kissing at the protest!”
“HOLD THE FRONT PAGE!”
There was definitely no question that if the photo existed, and Daisy had access to it… yeah.
According to Billie, Daisy was the one covering the protest.
I know 🙂 She usually does politics, which came up briefly when Dorothy wanted to cover a political story, and again in bonus comics (she was present for the Desanto rally, but narrowly missed Amazi-Girl).
I meant more like, if the photographer was still there, if they were taking pictures of the end of the protest (which would’ve been a natural thing to do), etc. 🙂
You’d think she might have some sense of discretion, like as a queer person she might realize this might not be ideal for any given student on the campus, but then you remember she’s a horny sapphic dumdum, and she got enthralled by the horny sapphic dumdum antics.
Right? Like maybe know better than to out people in the fucking newspaper?
Plus she’s channeling J. Jonah Jameson wrt: Spider-Man, only this time explicitly queer.
Honestly. If you give J. Jonah a picture of two spiderman kissing he’s going to press with that absolutely.
And god bless him for that.
“Public display of affection by public menace!”
and if cyanide and happyness is believed also have a good HJ.Jonah Jamieson
completely out of left field but brought on by you comment, my fave oanel of JJJ is in the Inferno crossover, after spidey gets nearly disembowelled by demons and jjj bites through his cigar, 7 year old me nearly pissed myself reading it (god i loved that arc, also the X-terminators miniseries they did for it)
her excuse is the same excuse Jocelyn had when sitting boggle-eyed on the ground in queer euphoria for ten seconds while her baby sister had her first kiss, basically
KNEW IT 🤣🤣🤣
Daisy finally got her dream headline.
She is probably absolutely euphoric right now.
Wow… is somebody gonna answer any of those ringing phones?
Because everybody effing called it!
Woohoo now the fun starts!
Interestingly Joe doesn’t seem upset. This might actually go in the direction of either “I’m not too heartbroken cuz I saw it coming” or “wait, we don’t need to break up, you can make out with Dorothy too”… Maybe the poly people were actually right? I just really thought Joe would be more upset about the dishonesty and sneakery given his history with infidelity
I think he’s aware that Joyce and Dottie have a slew of pent up sexual frustrations with each other, so he’s not surprised as such.
He knew Dottie wanted it, this just confirmed Joyce also wanted it.
How much of his attitude is him masking for Joyce’s sake, is what I”m wondering.
He has the attitude of somebody who has made up his mind about what he is gonna do, which is probably to break up with her.
Agree.
Which wouldn’t even be a bad thing since it what she was planning to do.
I just kind of want her to feel more shitty and not get off without feeling some guilt for how she’s acted? Like I’m rewatching Buffy right now and was feeling so much the same way about Xander and Willow cheating as about Dorothy and Joyce, but Willow felt devastated when Oz caught them. I want Joyce to feel the same way. I want her to feel SOME shame for cheating on Joe so she can grow from this
Like plot twist Joe breaks up with Joyce and then Dorothy can’t break up with Walky. Monkey paw yadda yadda double dumped Joyce.
I really think there’s been a broad internalization the Hayes Code here. The narrative doesn’t need to punish a thing to disapprove of a thing, and just because evil is depicted without strong reprobation didn’t mean something immoral has happened – you can fill for yourself what it says about the characters! You don’t need the text to tell you you don’t like cheating, you know that.
Forgot I was amazigirl. It’s very funny the results of my “maybe I should be less like that” about scrupulosity work gets said with an Amazigirl avatar – kind of the opposite of what the character is.
okay but your points were Correct and you were right to say them. that’s hero behavior in my books
Which reminds me of Scorcese’s reaction to criticisms of Wolf of Wall Street. “Look buddy, if you’re old enough to watch this movie and need me to tell you this shit is reprehensible, I ain’t the sicko, it’s you!” (or so i heard from a film critic i ocassionally listen to)
Like people who pearl clutch about Helluva Boss like “Oh no the demons in Hell are bad creatures and aren’t good.”
See the thing about that argument is when some demons, such as Mammon are bad, the audience is still meant to think “wow what a meanie” whereas is Blitz does something bad, the audience is meant to think “lmao funny man”. For example, the way both characters fat shame other characters. Bad when it’s Fizzarolli, okay when it’s Moxxie. It’s not just “demons in hell are bad” it’s “the protagonists are always right and shouldn’t be questioned ever”.
My personal problem with Vivziepop’s shows is the lack of consistency.
Me wanting a character to have to face their actions for my own personal satisfaction doesn’t mean I need or expect a narrative to explicitly tell the audience what is right and wrong. I’m not a dumbass who needs everything spelled out like that
there will be shame, you can see it in her face in the last panel. i just don’t think he has made up his mind to end their relationship, honestly i think he is going to ask her what she wants, and tell her if her feelings for dotty are really real he understands and loves her enough to let her explore/emprace them, but if she wants to stay with him as the kiss was more about stopping dotty from getting herself arrested and/its really justabout wanting to kiss but go no further……
tldr joe is going to discuss this with her like the mature loving adult he is trying to become, and thus continue to become a better person
It would be extremely unrealistic if Joe breaking up with Joyce, even amicably, didn’t still hurt her and upset her. But I do think Joyce copes by burying things and forgetting, exactly what my mom used to do with difficult topics. So whether there was tangible backlash or not, I’m not sure Joyce would react differently…
I’d just like to elaborate that breaking a tie you were invested in with someone you enjoyed time with hurts a lot, whether you want it to break or not for ethical reasons. If they do break up here, regardless of who breaks with who, the pain will likely be there for a while for both of them I think.
this also implies he may have bought her that blanket because he decided to break up with her, but still cares for her so much. which is breakin’ my damn heart
He’s taking it pretty well so far. Joe has suspected Dorothy is attracted to Joyce for some time now, and I assume he’s had a little time to think about this after seeing the newspaper front page and before Joyce came to his room. I would be surprised if this heads in the poly relationship direction though, since there’s been no indication of Joe being interested in that type of relationship. At least none that I remember.
The article about Joe’s sex tape with Roz reported him as describing it as an open relationship. It sounds like at present he doesn’t consider himself to have really been dating Roz, though.
I think Joe’s human interaction skills and relationship management skills have been quite high on several occasions in the comic. Which makes The List even more of a strange mistake.
All Joe’s many relationships seem actually to have given him more advanced people skills and understanding of sexuality than the average young adult, and its his experience vs Joyce’s inexperience that is on show here in his calm reaction. Hopefully he’s learning to trust himself in serious committed relationships – he can trust himself and his reactions, even when other people throw surprises at him. He’s determined to not be the problem, and not be the one whose behaviour sabotages it.
Joe for president?
I think some of the predictions that he will react strongly comes from people who are projecting how THEY have reacted in the past or would react now – I’d certainly have reacted worse than Joe to this news as a teenager, but as a middle-aged person… eh, if they’ve come to me trying to talk about it within a day we’ll just talk about it first.
This is a good reminder that not everyone processes things or feels things in the same way, and that there are different ways of processing and reacting to news like this, that will change the consequences and end results for everyone.
By reacting like this, Joe stands to keep Joyce’s friendship, no matter who she decides to date, and considering how much love and respect he’s shown for her, friendship without sexual posessiveness is likely to be a better option to him than losing her presence in his life completely by casting her off.
The List was a holdover from Joe’s high school days, right? He needed to grow up, and he did.
Again, can we distinguish poly from open, please? Joe might be OK with Dorothy and Joyce forming a sexual relationship as well as a Joe/Joyce one. He might even be happy with a 3some. But the 2 are quite distinct entities.
Having watched how things go, an open relationship is a prior generation’s term, and the generation before them used swinging, and this generation uses ethical non-monogamy. An open relationship is usually the first step people who aren’t poly-aware start on before ending up exploring polyamory and ENM. It isn’t necessarily confusing one for the other as an open relationsh structure of both partners entitled to sleep with other people but not form romantic relationships or discuss those people is still a polyamorous relationship structure, albeit substantially stifled and regressive.
I had been wondering about that, since “open relationship” seems to have disappeared entirely from the comment section.
Well Joe’s taking it better than I expected so far. I have high hopes this doesnt kill his character growth
Well… seeing how he is currently reacting, I think this might not go as bad as people think. Dude KNOWS she was kissing dorothy and is only being a bit passive aggressive. He is past the point of Surprised and is now able to think rationally.
My guess is that he got that paper a couple hours ago and has just been sitting in his room thinking and waiting for her, probably going over what he is planning to say in his head.
Luckily for Joyce, no one’s read a newspaper since the 90s.
…except for those close to Joyce, because her comic runs in it. Irony!
Joysted on her own petard.
Well played. +1 for you!
This is good, and I don’t want that to go unacknowledged in the 500+ comment barrage this section will be by the end of the day.
[slow clap for genuine cleverness]
…Oh God I wonder which one of her strips they chose to run in this issue?
The one where there’s a lot of sexual tension between Julia Grey and President Doris.
Very helpful. That rules out… two? Maybe three strips?
BTW, Dina’s face a few comics ago suddenly makes a lot more sense.
Can we assume that everyone they’ve met today has seen the picture? When Rachel came out of the shower and saw Joyce and Dorothy waiting there, she probably knew exactly what was going on.
Only if everyone reads the student newspaper, which I doubt. Joe does because of Joyce’s comic & he cares about her – idk about anyone else. Then again, maybe after a big event like the protest/encampment more people would check it out?
I think Dina would be unlikely to read the paper normally.
But I wouldn’t be surprised if Becky makes it a habit to grab issues to support Joyce’s comic-printing endeavors sometimes?
Basically I can see that going either way.
It’s also possible that she was scanning the news to make sure there was no news regarding Amazigirl. Girlkissing knocking Amazigirl out of the headlines might turn out to be a boon.
Yeah, I am getting gradually convinced that Joyce and Dorothy have unwittingly saved Amber and AG a lot of heat in the near future by Dumbing It Up Out There.
They could also just see the newspaper stand whereever it is because the picture is on the front page. They don’t have to read it, just see it
this, when i attended uni they were in racks every where (immediatly post 9 11) with also the papers of the other local unis. but they all were only weekly so there would have been a few days to a week before any one saw
But also once someone does even look at the front page and see two of their friends on it, they’re going to point it out to others who might not normally read it.
Joe of course gets a copy because it’s got his girlfriend’s comic in it.
I wonder how many of their friends regularly read the school newspaper.
in other news,
James Dobson, the asshole who caused Becky and countless kids to get hit with a wooden spoon,
HAS FINALLY DIED!!!
the prophecy has been fulfilled, and I’m dancing happily ✌🏽😈
*plays “Lucifer’s Dance” from Bleach Hell Verse on hacked muzak*
RIP bozo
Which possibly gives us an answer as to what Dina has been up to during this whole arc…
in occasions like this I kinda hope hell is real just so these people can find themselves there and go, “aw nuts”
“Sorry Jimmy, wrong door. You’re looking for the basement. When you hear the AC/DC track, you know the one, you’re getting close. Kthxbyeeeeeeeee!~“
ironically, all the dead members of AC/DC got into heaven, somehow
An event both fifty years late and over far too quickly.
Sadly he lived to be 89 years old and did a lot of harm to the world before he died.
Oh hey, always nice to hear about a new public toilet being opened.
may the robot devil torment him eternally
Hope he brings Trump right after him.
‘Macking out’? Well at least Joe doesn’t know what theyactually were doing >:)
Passing government secrets via flash drives hidden in their mouths. 😏
“No Mom, we’re not going out, we’re just secret agents passing intel to each other.”
“For the Russians I hope” – Carol Brown who definitely pro-Putin
Watching that 180 degree spin in the fundie community has been one of the strangest, most surreal things I have ever witnessed. Even as someone who lived among them for years, speaks their language, all that… I never saw that coming in a million goddamn years.
I dunno, I saw one screaming about how “the ‘Russia Russia Russia’ hoax was disproved” just yesterday.
Someone’s not keeping up with the prescribed opinions and current set of alternate facts!
Nah, that’s just standard cognitive dissonance. Russia and Putin are our friends, but the story about Russia interfering to get Trump elected was actually a conspiracy by Obama and basically treason.
This. The “Russia hoax” is specific to the idea that Russia interfered in the 2016 election, and…… it covers a lot of weird ground.
Trump has tried to argue that Putin would never have wanted him to be president because Trump’s such a tough guy (cue laughter) AND that Russia wouldn’t have bothered interfering AND that Russia did try to interfere but in Hillary’s favor. Like, all three, at different times.
I wonder how the “Russia is a better ally to have than Ukraine” people are handling the fact that they just attacked one of our, like, factories over there.
And it’s been brought back recently by Trump launching a criminal investigation into Obama investigating Russian interference back in 2016.
Which is hovering between hilarious and “oh god”.
I mean, look, the NRA was caught being propped up almost exclusively by Russian money for years, it’s distinctly possible that foreign interests use money to influence and control other fringe groups within our political sphere.
Russia hates gays and minorities. Has a leader for life who promoted religious nationalism. US Christian nationalists eat that up. There was a fundie who moved his family to Russia to escape all the woke. He’s now on the front lines in Ukraine. https://nypost.com/2025/07/22/world-news/american-who-joined-russian-army-to-escape-woke-us-has-been-sent-to-the-frontlines-wife-says/
Yeah, that story isn’t even unique to him. There a handful of stories like that, of goober moving to Russia thinking it is sole kind of neo-con utopia.
And sure, we know why they support it now, but I can assure you, at least with the fundies I grew up around, they used to be full on McCarthyism mode anti-Russian before all this. It’s like someone flipped a switch. From “We have always been at war with Eastasia” to “Eastasia has always been our friend.”
Yep. American antipathy for Russia is why Sonic’s arch nemesis in 1992 was renamed Dr. Ivo Robotnik in the American version of the game.
(Dr. Eggman is also a very silly name, don’t get me wrong, but like. The anti-Soviet messaging was absolutely invented out of whole cloth by the American localization.)
I remember it starting with right wing media comparing the macho horseback riding shirtless Putin with Obama on a bicycle, though I suspect Russia had been making overtures for awhile by then.
Somebody started writing that fanfic the very instant you posted this
Technically, she’s been wearing Dorothy’s clothes for two days bi.
Also, re; the alt text… holy cow. You got me there Willis. I did not clock that at all.
Tbh I didn’t clock it because I don’t think Joyce and Dorothy have dressed meangingfully distinctly from one another for a while.
Funny thing is, I *did* notice it. Not right away though.
When they got back from the protest – you know, where they were covered up the entire time in jackets – I thought *for sure* that Joyce was wearing Dorothy’s clothes. I thought they were going to be caught because they had a detour and fooled around somewhere and weren’t careful with the wardrobe after.
But then I saw that the undershirt was the same as what she was wearing at laundry, and then I assumed that the shirt she threw over it was the shirt she wore under the sweatervest on her date with Joe. Later on, when Joe said he got the weighted blanket because it was orange and pink, and Joyce is *wearing* orange and pink, the last bits of suspicion disappeared.
But what I didn’t realize is that the shirt from the Joe date isn’t orange-and-pink, it’s orange, and her jacket is orange-and-pink. Two different outfits. Rather – and I say this as I scroll through the history – Joyce’s outfit *started* with the orange-and-pink top *immediately* after she talks to Becky and realizes that she had “technically arguably sex maybe” with Dorothy.
Which not only implies something about where Joyce’s mind was at that time, but also might have impacted how Dorothy saw her that morning.
Smooth, Willis.
Also fun how orange and pink are the lesbian flag colours, everyone is assuming bi for these girls, and that may still manifest for one or the other of them for sure, but it isn’t pink, blue and purple so far… But also, if it’s a monogamous relationship then it will be a lesbian relationship, and some people do prefer to define their attraction based on who they are with at the time rather than who they’re attracted to in general.
Okay but “KISS BOMBINGS GOODBI” kinda slaps, good work Daisy
i was promised an earth-shattering kaboom!!!
I still want a kaboom!
im just glad we can all stop pretending Joe is the type to backslide on any and all character development the instant a partner is shitty to him
Because Joe is best boy
me: [sad, seeing a really cute ship burning on the open ocean]
also me: “SO HE’S GONNA BE SINGLE NOW, HMMMMM?”
oh
this is a kaboom
“WHERE IS THE KABOOM!
It was last night in Joyce’s bunk.
Alt-tex: the only thing I figured out is Joyce dressing more dark clothes. Did all these clothes from Dorothy?
Somebody called this a few weeks ago. Don’t remember who, but congratulations!
I see a smile, are we in the poly timeline? Does my boy Joe get to not have his heart broken?
Or is he just absolutely the single chillest dude that has ever lived. I love Joe so much, that little smile is everything lol. I still have all my reservations, but I feel much better.
Also, called it! (about the newspaper)
I dunno, don’t really think it’s a happy smile. Especially when he starts with “I promise nothing sexy will ensue.”
It’s like a teasing smile which is much better than any sort of frown rather. He could still def break up with her, but it won’t be like scorched earth or him backsliding or anything. He’s a dude that’s confident and calm about the situation and that’s way better than anything I was expecting
Which means Walky is absolutely gonna flip tf out because Calm, Confident, and Possessing Self Esteem are three adjectives that do it apply to him. Also because narratively it just makes more sense to not have the same reaction twice. Basically, however Joe handles this in the next page or so is gonna be the opposite of how Walky’s about to handle it. (Be that Joe Poly Walky Breakup, Joe Disappointed Walky Crash Out/Gleeful???, etc.)
He looked genuinely happy to see her in the previous page. I think this can easily read as him saying he knows this is not a time for sexy things.
It already ensued. If he’s been noticing the clothing he definitely knew when she panic blowed him.
That happened on the same day as the protests. The clothing are only noticeable today.
Like two sentences before, Joyce expressed anxiety that she would give in to sexy things before the conversation could be had. Joe saying that they won’t happen is reassurance, not a threat.
this is interesting to me cause i’ve said a few times here that i see no signs of any negative emotions in joe over the last 2 strips. it really illustrates the way our individual lived experiences shape us.
like i mean myheart wants me to get really mad about how people could be seeing anything negative in joes posture expression or words, like wondering if we are somehow communicating through the multiverse and some people here are seeing a literally different comic.
thankfully i havent fried my entire brain yet and calm myself remembering that i do not know what device you all are seeing on, what settings and all that, and i have not lived your lives, and that is ok.
but yeah this could go bad but to me joe looks like a man in love who knows the person he already sees as too good for him/the love of his life possibly, is veryveryvery inexperienced in matters of the heart, has 1) done something that has forced her to accept a more open veiw of her truth and 2) that this has both made her happy and not changed how she views him(she is obviously still attracted to him/has feeling towards him) 3) is committed to ensure there is open clear and free comminication regarding where they go from here, and is prepeared (as well as anyone can be) for any result while still hopeful he gets to keep eating joyceful cakes
Same. I’m not seeing anything negative in Joe’s posture, words or expression.
It depends on where you’re reading the inflection of the sentence.
I *promise* nothing sexy will happen + downward inflection = irritation.
I promise *nothing* sexy will happen + up then down inflection = reassurance
I promise nothing *sexy* will happen + any inflection = passive aggression/impending dumping. Could also be teasing though. This one’s a weird one.
I read it as reassuring at first, but calling her dude has me pausing a little because dude can sometimes indicate frustration when trying to get someone to have a convo with you. Which he has reasons to be like “dude c’mon” when she’s refusing to look at him, and he’s clearly displeased/disappointed in the last panel. I think it could go either way at this point.
i see no displeasure is that last panel as i commented about 100000000000000000000000% dad joke energy there for me, the emphasis on promise to me is him simply reinforcing to her that it is safe to talk. a big issue here is one context, or lack thereof, because we can only read as it is written and we have no thought bubble to show joes thought process we can only read the line in our own internal voice, the emphasis on promise does not denote a positive or negative inflection, only that that word is emphasized, and combined with joes dialog and behavoir over the last 3months of strips i do not read a negative inflection to that emphasis.
Everyone who called it gets a point.
It’s the payoff for Daisy FINALLY getting to report some sapphic content.
Side note: pretty fucking shitty of Daisy to publicly out people in the school newspaper
She outed them in two ways, one their relationship and also outed them as protestors. She could have been in the clear to print it if she simply gotten permission from Joyce and Dorothy, both of whom she knew.
Of the protests I’ve gone to it’s been pretty common knowledge that photos or film may be taken of you by the organisers or by a news team. Like, you and other people are coming together to publicly protest something. Wearing a face mask and hat is recommended if you have concerns that your identity may be used against you. Even then by showing up you accept that there will still be some risk.
While the headline and framing is a whole other topic, I don’t think they were outed here anymore than if they went to a music festival and the kiss cam showed him smooching after it was announced that there would be a kiss cam.
Counterpoint: Daisy has always been a little bit of a shit regarding being basically J. Jonah Jameson, but screaming about lesbians instead of Spider-Man.
Nah. They’re in public, at a major public event, they have no expectations of privacy.
In general no they don’t but Daisy, as a student at their school and especially as a fellow queer person, should think twice before posting something that will potentially out people
I’ve seen this point of view a few times now, and it’s entirely valid…
…EXCEPT, i think there’s a distinct possibility that Daisy would not view publishing a Joyce/Dorothy kiss as outing either of them. Because they are so, so, so obviously fucking bananas gay for each other, and everybody on campus already seems to have known it.
Like, for Christ’s sake, she’s published every panel of Julia Grey in her own newspaper. She might be more surprised to find out that Joyce boinked a dude.
Dear 30 people who specifically and explicitly called it: I apologize for thinking you were being ridiculous.
Can’t underestimate Daisy’s horniness.
I smell throuple which is honestly best outcome for me
I will be satisfied with nothing less than Joe-Joyce-Dorothy-Walky-Amber
Okay, but here’s my question:
Imagine we just polyculed everyone who’s ever been together on DoA? So Joyce is with Joe and Dorothy, and Dorothy is with Joyce and Walky, and Walky is with Dorothy and Amber, and Danny is with Am(ber)ziGirl and Sal…
But the actual question: if you’re dating someone, who’s also dating someone, who’s also dating your twin sister, is that too squick to be allowed?
I’d say that’s an okay seal. It’s not like someone dating both twins (serial or parallel). If you are on a double date with your twin and your dates kiss, that doesn’t mean you have to.
You’re not the first person to suggest that.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2023/comic/book-13/04-but-dont-give-yourself-away/mysake/
the Squik is in the eyes of the participants, and if they don’t have it then it’s none of the rest of our business, but like thats ever stopped us from commenting right!
also there is one big issue if every one who’s been observed in consensual relationships(not hookups) ends up in a mass polycule that means sharing jacob with raidah so that cannot be allowed
I’d be ecstatic with throuple, but the big V… U? polycule would be the best, I agree.
I can’t do a full ‘cule-style chart in this formatting, but the most expanded version as of yet would include Joe/Joyce, Joyce/Dorothy, Dorothy/Walky, Walky/Amber, and Dorothy/Amazi-Girl. Those are the current canon ships between that broader group, and I doubt any more would be added any time shortly, but there’s plenty motivation for all of them to be boinking across those different prior arrangements.
I WILL FIGHT EVERY RELATIONSHIP PALAFIN
THIS WHOLE PLOTLIBE WAS WORTH IT FOR GOODBI
Stand down, we have no quarrel with your tribe. Promise.
I read ‘PLOTLUBE’, and now I don’t know what to think…
That just sounds like a generic name for plot advancement, or maybe a term for plot contrivances that lead to escalating drama and/or chaos.
EVERYONE BRING YOUR OWN LUBRICANTS TO THE POTLUBE!
I feel like you’re trying to reference a potluck and I need to point out that’s exactly how a potluck doesn’t work.
Or maybe you’re just going to the wrong potlucks?
I’ve stopped going because every year the farmer just throws the mayor’s purple shorts in the pot.
i approve of the use of plotlube!
(it makes me think of using a trope to plaid-speed the plot action)
I am, and weird we always bring something to a potluck. I thought that was kinda the point, but I guess there’s always more than one way to do things!
Yes, but you don’t all bring your own, you pool everything.
I thiiiiink they mean everyone shouldn’t be bringing the same thing?
Which is true! Everyone brings one thing to share, usually.
Oh there are LOADS of different kinds of lube though! Everyone can bring their favorite variety!
This is fair, and it is after all a pLotLUBE, so presumably a potluck where everyone’s bringing lube, but I do understand reading your call as more like BYOB where you’re only bringing enough beer for yourself, versus a typical potluck where everyone brings a lot of a single thing with the idea that together there will be a combined big meal with lots of different foods to share. 🙂
Do you have to bring lube to the pot lube or can you bring someone who wants to make sure everyone has a use for all that lube?
This is known as the “Guinana Punch” approach to lube. 🤣
Daisy does.
I’m totally yoinking that word for my nefarious storytelling purposes.
I’m more of a relationship scizor
The problem with relationship palafins, is that you think you’ve scared them off, but then they zoom back in on their hind tails like some sort of dolphin superhero and you’re royally fucked.
you kids these days…back in my day, we had relationship garchomps, and we were happy
relationship paraffins
they burn so clean
… something in yo mouth
TELL ME HOW THE GRASS TASTES, LITTLE PERSON OF UNKNOWN GENDER.
*doesn’t actually shield bash you, that’d be mean, but I was thinking it for a second.*
I… I don’t have a sister ?!
I am pretty sure Daisy wouldn’t trade a Pulitzer Prize for that front page.
I’m pretty sure that page is how she’s expecting to get one!
Daisy PLEASE. This should not be top billing for your newspaper coverage of the Protest coverage.
Incredibly good point.
right???
i mean “kiss bombings goodbi”??? come on!!
to think Daisy of all people would know better than to highlight what’s basically birthday balloons at a funeral
well, a funeral that isn’t that of a bigoted white asshole ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Even the good book itself says, right there in black and white… when the wicked perish, there are songs of joy. In other words, even God is like “nah, y’all go ahead and dunk on him.”
OFF: Just made a comment about you on yesterday page.
The headline is genuinely crazy 💀
What does this Front Page Article about the protest against bombing a foreign nation need? I know TWO WHITE GIRLS.
I mean, they’re making out
yeah like
what was even going through Daisy’s mind when she decided to make this the highlight of a story about a genocide protest? 🤨
horny idiot or not, i expect her to get a long and thorough talking to at the very least
I actually want a Daisy and Asma comic about this as the next bonus strip. I know what I’m suggesting.
🙂
YOU FOOL, IF DAISY EVER ACTUALLY GETS LAID, THE UNIVERSE WILL CRUMBLE!!!
I think he means an actual talking to about why her choice of highlight for front-page was really insensitive to the issue that actually needed attention — it’s basically making the genocide protest, not about the genocide :(
The bit where he says “I know what I’m suggesting” seemed to suggest it begins with an angry exchange of words that ends in a hatefuck or something adjacent to it. Or maybe that was just some fanfic-poisoned section of my brain jumping to that conclusion.
There’s a chance that the headline is being used in an article that turns around and says “HA! Got your attention, but it shouldn’t have taken that should it? You should have cared about this issue already! Here’s what’s really going on: xxx”
… but I am not going to bank on it and hope also that one of the cynical character points it out at some point. Maybe Jennifer will finally snap!
My recollection is that in most of the strips Daisy is in, her inner monologue is 90% “LESBIANS 😀 😀 :D”.
Her outer monologue doesn’t have a much lower percentage.
unironically, the same thing that was going through Willis’ mind, when he penned this storyline. and i want to clarify, i’m not even saying that to dunk on Willis.
Considering it’s DAISY, this is entirely expected.
i acually wonder, if other than the attention grabbing headline and pun, the fill of the paper is 100% legit honest and pulitzer prize worthy journalism, and by having this splash page cuases the highest circulation numbers and also somehow even further amplifies the content/contest of the protest to the point that it actually accomplishes the desired effect of “school divests from genocide” is the front page then justifiable?
now as to why it would happen that way in my head is that the front page pic leads to this logic chain
school investing in genocide causes protests >>> thought to be straight girls are pictured kissing at protest >>> school investing in genocide causes gayness >>> we have to stop investing in genocide it’s cause white girl to turn gay!
To be fair, has anybody actually tried this argument? This might get them all to actually support Palestine IRL. The “Israel is Gay, Actually” argument could be how one of us wins a Nobel Peace Prize!
Maybe not, but it’s not surprising from Daisy.
im gonna presume this will be a line item on the list of things Dorothy’s gonna yell at Daisy for the next time she sees her
Daisy: You made out in a police beating surrounded by tear gas. You don’t get to say that I’m the inappropriate one.
Dot: *mind shatters*
She hopes to win a Sexy Pulitzer for this one.
okay but this one should exist, actually
Daisy is like an alternate universe horny J. Jonah Jameson, using horniness instead of sensationalism to hook readers.
You’re 100% correct on every moral and philosophical axiom.
She’s Daisy, tho.
Daisy, slamming paper on her desk: “GET ME BIWO-MEN!”
Well, I sure hope somebody picks up that phone…
Read this in Chris Guerrero’s magnificent voice and everything. It was magical.
(Several people) Called It!
Oh god no.
Forget everyone else, y’all. ASMA is going to be subjected to this newspaper.
I KNEW IT I CALLED IT IN MY BRAIN
Team Polycule, where are you! I shall join your ranks! Wherever this mess goes, I shall go down with the ship.
“
GentlemenSickos? It’s been an honor playing with you tonight.”[begins musical accompaniment as we all go down with the ship]
New pillow fort forming here for polycule party.
(Is this a celebration or a wake, only the next few strips will tell!)
Huzzah! New pillow fort! I made sure to bring a much wider variety of snacks for our incoming comrades.
Sweet! (Also, belatedly, I appreciated the Jaffa cakes. 🙂 )
Also: continuing to be excited for drama and mess, but ESPECIALLY hyped for the possibility that Joe takes this well and they try poly and mess it up a lot but maybe still wind up happy in a few years.
Different kinds of mess. 🙂 I will be happy on at least one level regardless.
Either way, it is fun while it happens. All I got are some melon candies for the fort
Melon candies ❤️ I will contribute some Suntory orange & mango soda this time.
(I got some while I was in Japan and I miss it so much.)
Oh amazing! I love pillow forts!
Aw yeah!
🛋️ …. wow there are bed emojis but no pillow emojis. I call foul.
Me too!!!! ^-^
super pillow fort party!!!
this ship sets sail to Pillow Fort Island!!!
Yessss ❤️
Popping champagne bottles in the pillow fort
Yes good
I am flinging nerf balls at your fort from a makeshift catapult, while sitting in a cardboard box labeled “JOE IS DISAPPOINT”
Returning nerf dart fire!!!
man playing the 90S board/minis game SIEGE for pillow forts would have been ecstasy for 11year old embe (i had one of the castle bigsets and one of the pirate big sets, but no friends to play with (also i didntget them till 13 and had my friend circle dissapate and a new one form from people who didnt come to my house.
Fuck high school (my grad quote “mssg to the junior high: Welcome to worst $*%^(&@ years of your $*%^(&@ lives”
long live going to uni (met my wife and found my aniime loving people) seriously there is no one in my life i am not related to from my pre uni days
and i am better for it
Honestly same on that last with one exception, and he reached out to make amends this year.
I would love more media for kids that doesn’t portray “lifelong circle of ride-or-die friends” as extremely normal for everyone but bad kids, because it’s definitely just one way of being a person.
agreed, i lucked out in that my dad was the same basically his friend circle was almost entirely made post highschool (there were a few highschool people he was still in touch with but none i would call friends) where as my moms friend circle was largely the same 4-5 women sisnce elementary/junior high + couples friends that my parents made together post school. (her highschool friends are getting together nest month so they can have a party/get together that isnt initiated by one of their passing).
on the other hand my best friend currently is renting a place with one of his best friends from childhood (cause fuck is life expensive) and he still plays dnd with most of them ( theres like 4-5 of them that are still going strong out of 10-15 20 years ago but still, 20 years ago ihad successfully freed myself of the assholes who had gathered around me in highschool
Yeah, like, it DOES happen…….. but it’s not the only thing that happens! Sometimes your friend-group disintegrates for no particular reason, sometimes they turn out to be assholes, and neither one necessarily means you did anything wrong.
(In my case, part of this is definitely that ND “didn’t realize my ‘friend’ was actually my bully” thing that’s so terribly common.)
I’ve known my best friend since I was 3. We grew up playing together because we lived next to each other. But when I moved in 3rd grade, we quickly lost touch.
Cut to 12 years later and me having moved back to NJ from work in Asia and realizing how much a lack of good socialization contributed to GAD taking over my life. So I reached out to see what he was up to since he was still in the area. And…functionally we picked up where we left off, discovering that we had both developed into exactly the same type of nerd. It was the funniest damn thing when I floated a tepid political opinion to test the waters and his response was “oh good, you didn’t go crazy” and we discovered we’re on similar wavelengths there, too.
Nice. 🙂
almost got tohave this with my childhood best friend, we drifted apart in highschool, and 12 years llater we randomly ran into eachother at a canada day street party, ended up spending 7 hours hanging and chatting like nothing happenned, were unable to get our scheduals lined up till the next canada day, but the vibe just wasnt the same, he had unfortunately become a bit too frat bro adjacent and was way too forgiving of people doing some non illegal but morally grey to black things on the “we’re friends/family/from same church” grounds and havent spoken to him since
I am carving a secret backdoor just in case things go wrong.
BUT I AM RETURNING FIRE (cotton balls incoming)
Heehee
Now Joe can begin his 12 step plan to destroy Dorothy.
First by proposing polyamory and knowing that Dorothy would never accept it while Joyce would love it.
(Vincent Price laugh)
while stroking the cat that has obligatorily appeared in hes arms
It’s true. Soon as you finish your villain arc, the Evil League of Evil sends you a voucher for the nearest cat rescue. Fun fact, supervillians account for a full 48% of all cat adoptions, then 23% the crazy cat hoarders, the remaining bit is spread among the general population.
Well, if you’re a super-villain, you’re always going to have a rat problem. Having skilled mousers about your base, is a no-brainer.
*WHEEZE* 🤣🤣🤣
I called that they would end up kissing at the protest and it would be caught on camera (like that one sailor who grabbed a random woman and kissed her during, I want to say ww2), but I did not call the newspaper.
I was expecting more like twitter or whatever Joyce’s dad looks at when he spotted his other daughter.
Well, there’s still hope for a trifecta.
Side note: it’s no surprise that Joe saw it in the paper, as I think it was established that he reads her comics.
The question is, will Walky also spot it in the paper?
I doubt he reads her comics, but he probably read Dorothy’s articles and maybe Jennifer’s.
He is back with Dorothy, for like the next hour or so, and he had a conversation with Jennifer yesterday so he might check the paper, even though neither of them mentioned having an article coming out.
Well he’s taking this a lot better than i expected
In retrospect it’s kinda obvious that Joe would be chiller than you’d have thought about this given that he was openly encouraging Dorothy to acknowledge her attraction to Joyce a while ago.
I was starting to wonder whether I had imagined that, given that nobody seemed to remember it.
Well, in case you’re still concerned, here’s a link: https://www.dumbingofage.com/2025/comic/book-15/03-me-and-who-you-say-i-was-yesterday/assureyou/
Thank you for your support <3
Since that conversation is a response to Dorothy sending Joyce titty pics, it’s at least arguable he was trying to get her to figure out her own feeling so she’d stop doing cheating adjacent things while denying them. Not that he was intending to say “Go ahead, it’s fine with me.”
I still kinda read that plus his commentary to Joyce that she should go for what she wants as a “Please, you two, if you’re gonna date, have Joyce break up with me and do it openly.”
istill maintain ” please you two figure out your feelings then lets discuss what happens next”
It’s certainly not “go make out without telling me first”.
i don’t know about that, the way i read his posture and attitude over these last few strips, i do not think he cared that much, if after a bit of making out it had been that they realized they did not actually want eachother that way and then joyce came to discuss with him, joe would have said “perfect” and would have never seen it as any kind of transgression. and in the reaction we have seen post protest from him it feel to me like, yes it was “If you have to make out a bit to figure it out then that is fine”
Willis you overestimated how much people pay attention to your characters’ differences in fashion styles. Plus Dorothy and Joyce are similar enough that it easily gets unnoticed.
With how drained and disheartened she looked at the end of the protest combined with this newspaper headline, Asma should just start fist fighting the first…idk five white people she sees.
You know what? She’s been good this year. I’mma let her have the next TEN white people she sees.
I wanna see Mary and Incelerator suffer an Asma attack >:D
PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
OMG, Asma Attack… that is glorious. That’s a “finishing move” name if I ever heard one.
now in wrestling that bring up mankind and his sock lol.
in mortal kombat it would be shoving an inhalor in the opps mouth and them turning into a balloon and popping
In wrestling? Go for a lung blower. https://youtu.be/Uy34xF7DhvQ?si=MJT9xvIaNdTC3DZZ
That seems awfully limiting! I’ll raise you fifteen.
honestly she gets the first 25 white peopleto pay her $20 bucks each cause she won the when will jorithy happen pool.
then she punches each of them for the paper front page.
then she goes for daisy
Who cares about the front desk lady?
Called it!
I feel like this is the calm before the storm. Joe initially looks snarky but in the last couple panels I think his feelings are coming through. Wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a combination of anger and crying.
I don’t see the same thing, but I’ll admit I am not unbiased here. I wanted a polycule so bad and this crumb of “maybe” is so good I wanna do a dance.
I’m mostly glad things are likely to be settled, one way or another… but between this strip and (with current context) the previous one, it does seem like he’s at least unlikely to lash out.
Certainly can’t rule out the possibility of him calmly rejecting her, much as Jacob did… but… thinking about it, I suspect that he’s not going to outright break up with her now; at worst, I suspect he’s going to ask her to think about what she really wants and come back to him with a decision tomorrow.
Admittedly, I may also be biased; we know that “what she really wants” is both Dorothy and Joe, and given such an ultimatum, there’s a good chance that she’ll finally admit that, first to herself and then to others.
I’m reading it as more “disappointed” than “angry”, but I don’t see those expressions as anything positive.
and i am the opposite, i don’t see anything negative in them
Well, Dorothy’s to-do list just jumped all the way to the end.
Nah, now he can just read it in the paper like everyone else.
Pretty sure informing Becky was at the bottom of her list.
oh, right. sorry, this past couple of weeks have been… a lot, for me.
I hope things get better for you soon, whatever’s going on.
Willlis with all due respect, I don’t think anyone pays as close attention to the clothes the characters wear as much as yourself, the guy who had to draw them several dozens or perhaps hundreds of times
At the same time it does feel like the kind of thing somebody would notice.
I guess I’m surprised nobody noticed, but I’m not surprised it wasn’t me. I pay attention to the clothes the characters wear mostly in the sense that I would notice if they weren’t.
I’m trying to think of what Dorothy’s colors are. I know Joyce is definitely orange and pink, Sarah is purple and green, Billie is yellow, Ruth is greenish-blue? Sal is red and black. So Dorothy’s… purple and blue, maybe?
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2025/comic/book-15/04-the-only-exception/actuallaundry/ also found this bit where Dorothy directly states the shirt Joyce wore yesterday (her bisexual outfit) is Dorothy’s, which checks out!
The wheeze-laugh I let out (because everyone else is asleep)
lmao the newspaper front page is the funniest possible thing
I think Joe has been expecting the breakup since the day they got together, and the reason he went to Dorothy was to push it forward and get on with it. Because people with terrible self-esteem self-sabotage. But I do hope they can remain friends, and that his character growth continues – even if they don’t stay together, she did help him be a better person.
And I suspect Rachel has a major hatecrush on Joe after their interactions. Hopefully he can do for her what Joyce did for him – help her realise people can be better, including her.
Does no one remember the massive protests in Athens years back during the collapse of the Greek economy where the only picture any news organizations ran with was the one with a guy and a girl making out in the middle of the street in front of the riot police? Of course the makeouts were going to be the front-page picture, even if the editor weren’t a horny idiot
True, and while I agree with comments above that outing people in a newpaper is not cool… they chose to make out in a public place, at a protest, which was definitely NOT about THEM, knowing that Joceline had already been photographed/filmed there and that it had reached people outside of the school.
It’s also hard to tell for sure from the drawing, but with all the tear gas and smoke, it’s quite possible that the two girls in the photo as shown on the front page might not be particularly identifiable to anyone who didn’t already know them.
I would like to take a moment to note that Daisy knows both Dorothy and Joyce. Both of them work for her. For Daisy, these are not two random women kissing, these are my reporter Dorothy Keener and my comic artist Joyce Brown.
And I presume Daisy is reeeeeeeally looking forward to some spicy storylines in JULIA GRAY, SPACE FORCE CAPTAIN
Yes… ha ha ha… YES!
oh crap we’re all team sicko now thanks a bunch Willis
To paraphrase the Cheshire Cat… we’re all sicko here. 😛
If daisy didn’t know them, she couldn’t have made the bi pun. They might simply be two lesbians.
I did wonder why Joe had his anxiety face yesterday panel 2, now we know
lol. lmao even
Beyond them getting outed by the newspaper, this will also likely cause drama in that their saphic shenanigans will likely bring attention to the protest for all the wrong reasons.
Well, the newspaper’s helping to bring the cheating drama to a close, so it needs to spark new drama to replace it.
Is this going to be like that Seinfeld episode? The one were people were disgusted that the Jerry made-out during Schindler’s List.
Also I hope we get a text exchange between Hank and Jocelyne to come full circle.
Hank: Is this your sister?
Jocelyne: Nope!
I note that very few of us are thinking of any repercussions from the authorities, not to mention parents, considering that these two were clearly in attendance, and now have their faces splashed on the front page. The situation is in flux, to say the least!
Yeah, as far as priority lists goes, Becky is far from their biggest worry – even the characters have not thought through the repercussions yet, but they are no doubt about to.
It might be that Becky is more mad at them for endangering themselves and Dina is mad at them for the ‘making the protest about you’ angle etc., rather than negative reactions due to jealousy, in the end.
I think you’re overestimating the reach of a school paper.
Parents pay attention and the photo getting published even there makes it more likely it’ll get picked up on social media.
And Hank already saw a picture of Jocelyne at the protest, so he’ll be looking.
I didn’t think the newspaper could print their pictures without asking first. Maybe Dorothy and Joyce absent mindedly signed a waiver when they started working for it.
Newspapers can definitely print pictures of people without getting waivers from them. There are some fiddly rules about when and where it needs a waiver, but this specific incident definitely is fine.
Messed up, absolutely, but legally chill.
The best kind of chill!
Preemptively explaining the joke: like how “technically” is the best kind of correct.
They’re supposed to ask names and get permission though if they can. And given that Daisy knows these two, she definitely could’ve. Also, did she take that pic via drone or did they just not notice her crouching down just off camera with a camera lol.
(Source: My mom’s entire job is taking photographs for a pretty large newspaper and she got her job because the last person was fired for not getting names and permission as needed. People will absolutely complain about it.)
Right, so at that specific newspaper they were “supposed to” but it’s still perfectly legal for them not to. They’ll definitely have to field complaints, but that’s not a law.
I am assuming that Joe has been holding that newspaper behind his back all day in preparation for this moment.
It’s still early in the morning, so not that long.
It did make his morning shower a little tricky, though.
Out of all the comments I’ve read so far, this the one that made me do a spit take. Well done.
(Gotta wipe my screen clean now…)
I think a lot of people forgot Joe is actually cool as shit. He had shitty ways of organizing women in his mind and that unfortunately leaked into the real world in a harmful way…but the guy is cool as shit. Which is part of the problem; guys are extremely shitty for a litany or reasons but sometimes they’re human beings and as the saying goes “dudes rock”.
Joe’s been working on himself, uncoupling from the more unfortunate ways he handled his relationships with women and intimacy. What comes out the other side of that is a really REALLY cool-headed fucking dude, he’s figuring it out, he’s beginning to believe etc etc.
Yes. This. I’ve been actually so proud of Joe since he has tried to change his ways.
Precious boy. <3
But how does Joe know she’s been wearing Dorothy’s clothes? They have the same goddamn wardrobe.
Well that’s one way to rip the metaphorical band-aid off quickly.
Since the two of them have been outed without their or their partners’ knowledge, how do y’all think the various characters will take this?
Dorothy: still going through things that are changing her world view, both with realizing she’s bi, realizing her feelings for Joyce, and reconsidering how she can make a difference in the world.
But, she also pushed for some kind of relationship with Walky, which she is now planning to throw away, which is repeating the same pattern of behavior from the last time they were together.
Then there’s the potential Becky fallout.
Joyce: clearly wants to keep her cake and eat it, too, but she still thinks in monogamy.
And even if the idea of dating both occurs to her, it’s more likely than not going to happen (though I do give it better odds than I used to).
She knows she’s done wrong, but she’s easily influenced by horniness, and so probably won’t feel bad for any length of time unless Joe (or Becky) is really broken up about it.
She’s frenemies with Walky, has even called him family before, but I doubt she’d care how he feels, unless and until she see him really hurt.
Joe: looking at this and the previous strip, I get the impression that Joe is nervous about this conversation (mostly his face as he heard a knock and went to the door), but is playing it cool and will not crash out about it.
That said, I don’t know if he won’t crash out because he loves her and wants to support her despite everything, or if he won’t crash out because he’s become that chill of a person.
Walky: we haven’t really explored his feelings since Lucy broke up with him, but given the looks on his face, especially when getting back together with Dorothy, it doesn’t seem like he’s sure of this relationship.
It’s very possible that he wouldn’t have gotten with Dorothy again if she hadn’t been having a meltdown.
But that doesn’t mean he’d be ok with being cheated on, least of all with Joyce.
Also, despite this friend group being a pretty decent size, I wouldn’t say Walky has a lot of friends.
Sarah, who almost gave a speech about how Joe didn’t deserve to be cheated on, didn’t have a word to say about Walky, as far as I remember, and I feel the rest of the main cast would amount to the same.
If he does have an issue, I don’t know who he can talk to about it (not that he wants to talk about his feelings much, anyway).
It would be a coin flip if Lucy was willing to talk.
Amber might, if she wasn’t laid up right now.
Booster would definitely talk to him, but, especially in this case, I feel like that would be like talking to a nicer sounding Mike.
He and Becky could possibly have a good talk about it, depending on the head space they’re both in.
Becky: she shouldn’t even be a factor, but she is because of her dynamic with both Joyce and Dorothy.
Before the time skip, this would have been her worst timeline.
Now?
Who can say?
She’s happy with Dina and her relationships with both Joyce and Dorothy have changed.
That said, she does still feel a competitiveness towards Dorothy out of fear of being replaced by her in Joyce’s heart, and this situation is just a variation of that fear.
And being in a happy relationship with Dina doesn’t mean she won’t feel rejected by Joyce a second time, because now it’s not that Joyce isn’t into chicks, she’s just not into *her*.
The potential for drama is high, but it would be a kicker if Joyce and Dorothy have been super worried about all this and Joe, Walky, and Becky were just like “Eh.” 🤷🏾♂️
you neglect an important factor that may affect Becky outside of the current thing. Becky still retains her faith even after all the trauma she’s endured and while it’s technically not adultery because they aren’t married I doubt she’s going to approve of cheating regardless. Additionally we saw that Dina is quite unhappy with Dorothy as well. Though we don’t know the origin of this unhappiness it could be that either A: she believes that Amber got hurt because of Dorothy’s reckless actions at the protest, or B: Becky saw the newspaper and was hurt by Joyce and Dorothy’s actions and Dina is mad at Dorothy because she hurt Becky.
I think Walky would have gotten with her, but Dorothy talking about not having to treat fun things as important so it doesn’t matter when she screws it up (and him taking that to mean them), is probably what did the most damage. It wouldn’t surprise me if Walky throws that back at her but no—I don’t imagine anyone but maybe Billie will be there for Walky, sad to say. Maybe Sal on a random night.
This strip’s plot aside, do you think that Daisy is going to catch any heat from this?
From Joyce because of this and because she and those close to her have been targeted multiple times, two of which were extremely violent kidnappings by queerphobes (pretty sure that incelerator is going to be spurred by this).
From Dorothy for all the overlapping reason and because of her newfound ethics.
Ideally Raidah or Asma should be the ones calling Daisy out on the last part but I don’t see Raidah doing anything unless it benefits her (or at least doesn’t make her out of her way) and Asma seems too fed up and busy with her own issues.
Raidah could angle with the Dean to replace Daisy with herself, perhaps?
(The more I think about it the juicier it gets – newspaper becomes a mouthpiece for School management interests, not sutudent interests. Joyce’s comic dropped in favour of Walky’s. Jennifer and Dorothy sacked, replaced by Lucy?)
Has Lucy ever expressed any interest in journalism?
Okay no Raidah doing several of those things is a wildly plausible story direction, thats cleverly reasoned
Lmao
I HECKING KNEW SOMEONE TOOK A PHOTO
Joe you’re officially my favorite character. It’s officially not close anymore.
Between this and the talk with Dorothy that man is officially an incredibly sexy level of normal and unprotective about this shit. There is something really compellingly awesome about the way he’s comfortable having those conversations and then AFFECTIONATELY RAZZING HIS PARTNER ABOUT HER ATTRACTION TO SOMEONE ELSE oh mY GOD.
I know I’ve been rooting for it but post this strip I’m going to be so sad if we’re not living in the poly timeline, this behavior is the most attractive anyone in this comic has ever been, oh my god it’s perfect.
Joe really has come a long way, lightyears really, from his origins as a one-note “ladies man playboy” kinda character. Truly delightful character progression.
Joe has had one of the best arcs in the whole comic.
joe is actually my husband now and i’ve decided you all can share him
Well, so far it’s not going too bad between them.
Everyone who called there being a photo? Have a brownie.
Hmmmmmmm. Don’t trust print media? Or don’t trust Daisy? Which one we thinking works better here?
Your mom works better here.
She should get a raise then.
A nickle?
Two nickels for this.
I actually showed this to my mom and it got a chuckle out of her. She’s been pretty down since my older brother died earlier this year. Thank you.
Happy to help?? Tell your i wish her the best. Or don’t if you think that be weird.
Joe is taking this remarkably well.
He saw this coming, TBH.
Joyce: JOE you can read!!!
Joe: yes? but even if I didn’t. it’s a photo.
BOY, Asma’s gonna be even MORE pissed at Dorothy for overshadowing the point of the protest.
Damn it Daisy! We know this bullshit was you. This why we question your priorities as a journalist.
It being Jennifer is the better storytelling angle tbh.
But yeah that would track.
Jennifer doesn’t make publishing decisions.
We also saw her onscreen deciding not to go to the protest.
Now all of China knows you’re gay
[sinister smile]
Perfect.
(aka. i_understood_that_reference.gif)
I’m glad I ctrl+F’d so I didn’t repeat the joke
So, was this published before or after the blowjob?
Seeing the protest was just yesterday, I’d say it was after, but also, I am quite certain this picture was circulating on the net way before it got printed.
Well, the blowjob was last night, this is almost certainly the newspaper for the day *after* the protest, so I’d say after just on that basis, but also I think if Joe had seen this before then he would’ve said something at the time instead of showering her with affection and weighted blankets.
(the picture *may* have been circulating before it got printed, which might explain Dina’s reaction to Dorothy’s question earlier, but it depends who took it. If it was taken by the newspaper’s photographer, I doubt they would’ve posted it before publication.
There’s nothing saying there couldn’t have been more than one photo. Dina might have been looking at a different one.
so there is something missing (at least i havent found any other comments yet on it). when does the digital edition of the newspaper come out, i mean i think it incredably unlikely the school paper doesnt have either a website that updates stories somewhat live/currently or a emailed digital edition that goes out every morning. i wander if sarah checed her phone and saw the pic in the papre digitally, now my flaw in this thought may be that it is very likely dotty would have checked her phone for emails and if there was an emailed edition she would have seen it before they got to the shower
Hey, Dorothy. Here’s that attention you ordered.
(To be clear this is an ironic joke)
i revisted joe’s talk with dorothy back in march and im guessing he already figured this might happen
the dorothy and joyce “being honest with (them)selves” not the newspaper
i actually choose to believe that joe specifically predicted he’d see it in a newspaper. this crew doesn’t do jack shit, without it ending up an incident that affects the entire local region.
I’m so happy its in the newspaper. They can’t dance around it anymore.
I kinda like Joe being smug about it, but also seeming like he’s hiding being kinda hurt.
That all said, the Becky Crashout is gonna hit SO HARD & I am NOT prepared.
DAISY NOOOOO YOU CAN’T SPREAD IDENTIFYING PHOTOS OF PROTESTORS DAISYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
She’ll probably have an epiphany about what she’s done later. Like a type of post nut clarity of this massive mistake.
If it was already going viral, she might’ve figured why not, but yeah, even then it’s not cool.
So Joe get BJ from Joyce cosplaying Dorothy?
“Well, I wouldn’t have guessed I wanted this, but I guess I do?”
Joe is taking this remarkably well. I mean, I don’t want him to break down or backslide but he seems much more chill than I would have figured.
Also while that headline is a funny pun, I feel like it requires the author to know Dorothy and/or Joyce personally to work. What I’m saying is, Jennifer has some ‘splaining to do.
Not sure who the article’s author is, but Daisy knows both Dorothy and Joyce.
Nosiree Bob, I was not in Dunn Meadow protesting, your honour. I was in Dunn Meadow making out.
I feel like he looks a little stressed (but doing okay) about it, but he did genuinely look happy to see Joyce come to the door in yesterday’s strip.
Joe continues to win at being a good person. Comes right out and says it to make it easier for her instead of forcing her to get the words out.
Panel 2 tells me he’s not happy, but everything else tells me he’s remarkably unfazed. Because he suspected it would happen for long enough that he’d already worked through his emotions? Because he’s masking?
Let’s see more. I’m not against their going poly bit I’d like Joyce to have to face the music. Not as punishment but so maybe next time she does better. They’re all so young still, now’s the time to learn.
Panel two tells you he’s not happy? You seem to have trouble interpreting even basic cartoon expressions. Nothing in that panel indicates that. And look at panel four. I’m not going to say Joe is pleased, necessarily, but he seems perfectly placid at this point.
It was a poor choice of words to say “not happy”, as I didn’t mean it in the “angry” sense, but as UNhappy. To me that facial expression screams “sad”.
Also expressions will be read differently by different people, there’s zero need for “You seem to have trouble interpreting even basic cartoon expressions”.
I don’t know, I can kind of see it? I personally think he’s trying to keep the tone/mood light for what, even if he’s somewhat prepared, is probably still a tough conversation. His face in yesterday’s strip before he opens the door seem notable to me there.
Also, to be a bit petty: you seem to have trouble not being rude to people who have different opinions about cartoons than you.
Naw, you’re incorrect. Those faces read to many of us as “I’m deliberately trying to moderate my emotions, but I’m upset”.
These aren’t stick figures. Willis has a long history of drawing complicated expressions where the characters are technically smiling without being happy.
Which I love! the fact that there never is 100% agreement as to the characters’ expressions is a testament to Willis’s subtle drawing
Kinda nuts that he is still focusing on making it easier for her.
Yeah. That’s what making me think he pre processed everything. We saw that already when he went to talk to Dorothy.
I’m projecting of course, but if I had only learnt about it the very same morning I wouldn’t be ready to be generous yet. After three weeks processing the hurt, maybe.
I still kinda hope we’re not setting up for “generous”, just “disappointed/hurt rather than angry”.
I mean, he internalized that he is dogshit because he is a man, because his dad was dogshit.
He’s doing for his romantic partners, what he spent his whole damned childhood wishing that his shitty Dad would do for his Mom, which is love her unconditionally, and work tirelessly to make everything easier for her…
…which is also probably a love language that he learned from his Mom, while she was getting cheated on by his shitty dad. So, I think it’s correct to make the connection that, romantically-speaking, he may be an obligate partner-pleaser, who isn’t willing to actually externalize his own feelings in any way that might lead to conflict. We witnessed such behavior already, when he wouldn’t set a boundary with Joyce directly about her coercing him to drink with her.
called it.
(QC spoilers)
——-
-pation
was not execting my comment to be linked cool
and also YESSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(NO SPOILERS!)
OHHHHHH
OOOHHHHHHH
SLAM DUNK FROM DOWNTOWN
Goodbi. Most excellent
well…….fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
But also!
Hot DAMN! I like this development for so many reasons!
Daisy must have covered the protest herself.
Well, Shit.
Yeah… Called. (Seemed kinda obvious.)
Interesting Joe-faces, though.
Well, I suppose you can’t really rip off the band aid if it was already ripped off to begin with.
You can try, but then you’re just picking at an open wound.
…oh geez, this metaphor is going to carry for a few strips, ain’t it?
Oh
Oh this is glorious
Becky knows, so Joyce and Dorothy will be dead by the end of the arc.
oh my fuckin’ god lmao, that’s actually hilarious. joyce and dorothy are prolly both gonna implode separately
Daisy is just SO happy!!! 😀
Ok, this is going ok so far.
Wait, so the newspaper decided it’d be a good idea to use a front page story about a protest that descended into police violence to out two students as bi? That’s… a form of journalism, I guess.
How would they know if they’re out or not when they’re making out very publicly where there is a lot of media attention? It’s not like they were hiding in bushes unbeknownst to Dorothy and Joyce (the literal reason they’re there is because of media attention reaching Joyce’s dad) I think the media already there wouldn’t assume “oh we shouldn’t make assumptions about these two girls who know exactly here they are, let’s respect their public privacy.”
It depends on the newspaper’s bias. If the newspaper wants to downplay and diminish the protest then it is a great distraction. “Haha! Look at these silly children! So full of passion!”
Ok, this beat I liked. Joe is being so adult and patient.
In hindsight, of course Joe knew. Not just knew, but also expected it and has no real feeling of anger.
He confronted Dotty about her feelings for Joyce, he absolute knew this was a possibility.
I doubt there are “no” real feelings of anger, but you know, not the world shattering horror that one camp in the comments kept foretelling. The next few joe comics may cause some strong second-hand feelings anyway. But the guy has desperately hoped for this relationship while simultaneously feeling undeserving of it for at least the last month or more?
And to the people cheering “poly!” – I feel like the only way that will get brought up is to jokingly shoot it down. I’d love it, y’all would love it, it’s… probably not really likely. Yes, these boyfriends have been tolerating their girlfriends having low-key homoerotic feelings for one another for as long as they have known both of them, but it takes a lot to break out of monogamy mindset and all four of them are pretty well baked in there from birth, it seems, sometimes potentially trauma-reinforced as in the case of Joe.
I’mma keep hoping for polyamory.
I will stay hoping for it, but sadly, I’m getting more and more convinced that Dorothy and Joyce already killed that bird and got stoned.
My theory is Joe and Dorothy split Joyce, Dorothy breaks up with Walky, then poly doesn’t work and is hard so she realizes she fucked up again.
And then…. idk, Amber I guess.
Oh god, the King Solomon approach, nooooooooooo Joyce!
I think Joe is about to win the reward for chillest boyfriend in this series. I also think Joyce is about to learn the words ‘poly’ and ‘V-relationship’ in the next conversation.
Dan dan Daaaaan
J’accuse!!!
Joe should simply grind Dorothy into a powder, mix her with flour, and use that flour for tortillas.
That’s not vegan at all!
Yeah, I think we gravely misinterpreted them when they said they were on an “all-vegan diet.”
….oh hell
Love the headline. The girls could actually make the protest successful. 🙂 Nothing changes bad behavior like laughter. Sort of like the “Assault with a Deli Weapon” arrest.
lol
Pffffffffft- OH MY GOOOOOOOOOOO–
*dies*
Gotta admit though, that’s a great photo. Pulitzer-worthy, even.
YES! I call this my “i called it weeks ago” dance.
AS THE PROPHECY FORETOLD
Oh that’s brilliant. I never noticed the clothing!
YES… HA HA HA… YES!!!
Gahhhhhhh
Busted!
I’m not entirely sure that Joe is as chill as some think here, but if so I’m a bit disappointed. Where’s the mess? Where are the consequences?
We didn’t even Joyce getting herself to the point of actually saying it. Which was obviously hard for her and which I would have liked to see if she managed or if she somehow chickened out again.
We’ll see where it goes, but at the moment it feels like a bit of a cop out. It’s taking the most dramatic “Joyce doesn’t tell Joe, but he finds out anyway” direction and defusing it by having him not really upset.
I n think the consequences will be from her mom and dad and the school
Those would be consequences for being bi and for being at the protest though. Not consequences for the cheating part.
the cheating consiquenses are going to be with sarah and becky and herself. willis has fairly clearly set it up for joe to be chill and even supportive of the situation. yes joe has issues due to adultery but he may also have a “kissing isnt sex therefor isnt really cheating” view
Joe is primed to be understanding, because he knows Joyce so well.
But, he only knows Joyce so well, because he’s been damned obsessed with her to a concerning (if adorable) degree.
However, he’s still equally primed for this to be a deal-breaker, because the dude is genuinely traumatized by this one thing, specifically.
It’s ultimately up to Joe, and Joe alone, what he’s gonna be willing to accept and deal with.
I’m reading Joe’s ongoing facial expressions as “I am holding this in so that she doesn’t realize I know until I drop the hammer.”
Whether it’s the hammer of angry or (as I suspect) the hammer of disappointment, well, maybe tomorrow. I’m still rooting for “You helped me change for the better, why are you changing for the worse” or something similar.
Panel 4 in particular can be read as “you KNEW what you were doing”, as in, “I was aware you and her had a thing for each other, why didn’t you admit it and break up with me when I basically asked both of you to, instead of stringing me along”.
That’s not how I’m reading it (he looks smugly amused to me) but I can definitely see your read on it too!
I think the most interesting part of this strip is his confident assertion that Joyce knew what she was doing when she kissed Dorothy.
IMHO that kinda ties in with my read of his interactions with Dorothy and Joyce over the past in-comic week or two being along the lines of “I know you two have a thing for each other, even if you two don’t always seem to — please shit or get off the pot with that rather than staying with me if that’s where you want to go.”
Yeah…
As you can see above I’m hedging my bets like a coward! This COULD be a positive development for Team Polycule but it could also be like Jacob kissing Joyce. Joe’s expression today and yesterday (IRL, the strips) seems complicated to me.
At the very least I expect to be right about him putting on a brave face about poly while inside not being sure he wants to share Joyce and feeling like crap that he’s “not enough” for her.
Oh geez, now that you mention it, this does feel very similar to Jacob’s conversation with Joe when he knew he was done with Joyce, after her lying one time. Joe super went to bat for Joyce, and Jacob just warned him that he was gonna get burned. Jacob’s cold rationale may have been entirely prescient.
Yeahhhh I’ve been really curious about when and how that would come back around.
I don’t think Jacob is gonna say “I told you so”, because for one thing, he wasn’t the one getting cheated on — but I’m sure if Joe is hurting, some sort of Jacob will feel a twinge of, “It’s different inside the situation, isn’t it?”
Also, which of these increasingly disappointed Joe faces should I change my gravatar to? Panel 4, 6, or 7?
none cause he isnt disapointed in any of them, unless you mean “which ofnthese joe faces i should change to as i am increasingly disapointed in him”
My vote is for Panel 4.
I’m gonna be very salty if, as it appears, Joe isn’t hurt by this. Because the entire reason this arc has been a problem has been how Joyce just went for it without thinking.
When the protagonist of a story does something impulsive and reckless, the expectation is that they face negative consequences. Then they learn from those negative consequences and are better for it. Luke rushes off to Cloud City to save Han and Leia- he loses his fucking hand, and learns to maybe have a plan before acting, as we see when he goes to Jabba’s palace.
Now, one could argue that Joe being hurt is far from the only negative consequence that’s being set up. Certainly the IDS going with the front page photo has a lot of potential to mess with their lives. But to tell the truth, that’s not the sort of consequences I’m interested in because those are broader social consequences imposed by society. Joyce and Dorothy facing consequences because bigots don’t care about genocide when it’s done to people they hate or homophobes homophobin’ is really not what I’m here for. I’m here for personal stakes.
So I admit, it’s a very specific problem I’ve got: Joyce did something reckless and impulsive and I want that behavior to have consequences- but really only this one specific personal consequence because that’s the part of the story I’m invested in. Like, if Joyce settles happily into a poly relationship with Dorothy and Joe but as a result of the picture her dad cuts off her tuition, no one could argue that Joyce isn’t being punished narratively for her reckless behavior. But because I’m here specifically for the interpersonal drama between these idiot freshmen, I wouldn’t be satisfied because the narrative punishment isn’t the one I want- also because in general two women kissing and protesting genocide are both things I generally approve of, so “the punishment doesn’t fit the crime” applies.
I feel like any other way this whole thing plays out besides Joyce no longer getting to be with Joe will be the narrative approving of Joyce cheating on Joe. He doesn’t have to cry or go “how could you betray me like this, Joyce?!”, he can be calm and say “yeah, we’re done, and give me that blanket back once you wash it”, but everything in this strip seems to set up him approving and that is the one thing I cannot abide.
Edit: not *everything*. I misremembered Joe’s face in the last panel and thought he was smirking- his expression is olmuch more one of disdain, and that gives me hope he won’t take it in stride so much.
I think honestly he knew and isnt that upset because its very early and at this point its just a kiss and some flirting which is wrong but isn’t that world shattering of a betrayal. Joe is far more mature than Joyce and jas a lot more romantic experience even if it was sexual mostly. We also know he was sort of catching the vibe from his talk with Dorothy. I think he’s going to just go. Clearly you’ve got to work this out go do it. Go figure yourself out and whats going on with her. And they’ll still possibly be friends i think walky is the one who will crash out
Sometimes things just work out, you know? Stars align, a mistake is taken with grace and worked through instead of layering trauma on trauma. There’s room for healing and growth here, and that’s beautiful.
this!
also she could still get punished with the loss of the relationship. i could see joyce still breaking it off with him because of what she did was wrong and she feels she has to do so to make things right with him, even though joe was prepared for this and was desiring of finding a way forward together.
This. I can see them deciding to break it off for her to figure her stuff with dorothy out but still being cool and her still caring about him
and him her, and who knows, maybe 6 month later (in comic) they do end up in a polycule. joyce still faces the consiquence of her actions, takes responsibility learns and grows and they decide to try again.
Sure, but is that a satisfying narrative? If Luke had just pwned Vader, saved Han, and defeated the Empire in one swoop, would Empire Strikes Back be held up as such a classic?
If Joe is cool with this, it takes away so much of the *impact* of Joyce making a mistake. Because the only reason it was a mistake in the first place was that it hurts Joe (I continue to give negative shits about Walky and his feelings). And with that lessened impact, Joyce is a lot less likely to grow and change because of it, and that’s what this whole story has been about, Joyce growing and changing.
Real life isn’t always about conflict and change, but we’re not reading a biography, we’re reading a drama. And a protagonist getting rewarded for her mistakes is not fun to read.
yes it is satisfying as a narrative, i have ranted in past posts about the fact i don’t like drama happenning for no reason but that the drama is the most drama even if it doesnt follow the stories flow pacing or tone, just cause it would be the more dramatic event. there is a thing of giving the reader a reprieve, or just not adding drama that is out of sinc with the where whyw what and how of whay has happenned. the luke vs vader analogydoesnt quite copy over, yes as a basesubject of “it is a dramatic event in the story” you can compare as an academic example or story structure, but luke v vader is a violent conflict between 2 opponents, joyce/joes relatiionship is is in conflict they are not dipole participants, the are both positive aligned narratively, and they have been set up to be seen that way, it is not until returrn do we get luke approaching the confict from a layered and multiperspective view. just because the pumishment is not as severe as you would like to see does not mean she is rewarded for it. nor does it mean she cannot grow or change from it. we in real life do not always need to be hit with the harshest penalty to provoke us into to growth and change, in fact from the studies i’ve read regarding disipline and trying to get someone to grow and change positively it is counter productive to impose the harshest penalties to get change in others, and longer lasting and greater change is more often going to be successful when punishments are more lenient and accompanied by positive reinforcement. and to me when reading a silly slice of life comic strip i prefer the characters to be prtrayed more realistically like that.
there is to much emphasis on conflict having to have highstakes/big results at all times or the narrative is less satisfying. and now just because passive voice is not desirable in nonfiction for the purpose grammatical clarity, doesnt mean conflict in a narrative must not have a passive effect/or use a seemingly passive consiquence to be satisfying.
Well, that’s one take on it, but this strip isn’t a morality play, and I don’t think it would be improved by turning into one. I think this reaction is perfectly in character for Joe, and is frankly a lot more interesting than the typical “How could you do this to me?” histrionics you usually get in fiction in this kind of situation.
It’s not about morality, it’s about not warping the narrative so that your protagonist never faces thr consequences of their mistakes.
It’s been literal decades, but look at Eragon as an example. As I recall, at the end of the first book he got horrifically maimed by a bad guy way stronger than him. And then in the ne,t book the elves cast some sort of uber-healing soell on him that both massively powered him up and completely removed that injury. And from then on Eragon was even more of a childish power fantasy than he already was, and it was not fun to read.
Joyce being able to make out with Dorothy and have her boyfriend, previously established as having significant issues about infidelity, give his seal of approval and either calmly step aside or retroactively declare himself ok with polyamory is not to that level, but it’s certainly not a satisfying story beat. There’s no conflict, no reflection, just justification for Joyce to indulge her whims, confident that the author will ensure she never has to face the consequences of a mistake she made.
again joe doesnt have to react with extreme nagativity for joyce to both face consequences that are serious and change inducing.
i think a big disco we have is that as i have read joe as a character over the last month it does not jive to me that he would react with extreme negativity, or have the kiss cause his issues wiht adultry to flare up hugely. to me joe reacting with open hostility/rage/other extreme negative emotions, would be very out of character. one big thing to me is joes infidelity issues may have a lot to do the lying or secrecy hiding it, where as the kiss happenned out in the open and in an enviroment where privacy and annonymity are not expected
1) I’m not calling for him to be histrionic. But the vast majority of people out there don’t respond to their partner passionately kissing someone else with “well, finally! Good for you two lovebirds!”. Even poly folks if it wasn’t cleared/discussed beforehand. Because it smacks of lack of care for them. Joyce didn’t at all care how Joe would feel one way or the other when she smooched Dorothy. And so Joe deserves to feel hurt. Because “caring about your partner’s feelings” is the damn baseline for a healthy relationship. Joe’s whole *thing* was that he was terrified of any feelings that weren’t “lust” and so that was the only thing he allowed himself to feel and wanted his partners to feel. And then he fell hard for Joyce and had to come to grips with putting an emotional connection on the table. He and Joyce were not necessarily “in love”, but they were certainly connected by more than “the bonds of mutual lust” to quote Roy Greenhilt. And then Joyce goes out and shows the entire damn world that she *didn’t * take his feelings into consideration by not clearing the makeouts with him as well as actively avoiding telling him afterwards.
God, the more I write it the more I’m like “how would he *not* be hurt by this? How does Joyce showing him so blatantly that she doesn’t consider his feelings worth thinking about *not* cause him pain?
i do not deny that most peple are going to react negatively. i am saying as i read the story and his character thus far, it would surprise me more if he reacted with more outward negativity than he has, his talk with dotty, the fact that he has been supporting joyce for MONTHS as she proccesses the changes in her life, the way he has reacted to joyce telling about the laundry room, the way he acted when she arrived the previous night, the way he acted when she arrived. All of this leads me down the road that joe whiel may feel some hurt, is not going to show it or let it interfere in this moment.
Sometimes people don’t do jealousy, though. My partner’s college girlfriend got really upset with him when he didn’t react with rage upon finding out she had cheated on him. He’s an all-compersion type, and was even back when there weren’t common words for it. It wouldn’t surprise me if Joe was the same way – and he is well-disposed towards a lot of open sexuality.
“But cheaters must be punished” isn’t compelling to me when nobody actually got hurt. (Also, the much more likely “punishment” is the Becky fallout.)
Well i guess you gonna have to be unsatisfied then. Too bad so sad 😢.
This is sort of what I expected he doesnt seem horrifically upset more somewhat amused. I thinknhe sort of had a feeling Joyce and Dorothy had a thing for eachother and at this point it is just a kiss and flirting and that wasnt great but its still early enough that he can possibly take this in stride. I wonder if he’ll just break up with her. Or if it will lead to them discussing maybe opening up to Dorothy and Walky. I think he’ll likely break it off and say Joyce babe you clearly need to work this out go do it. But maybe …let me watch once.
Part of what’s weird to me is that while we know that was their first kiss, generally if you catch your partner cheating, even with something as relatively minor as a public kiss, the assumption isn’t that it’s the very first time.
Especially for someone with trauma about cheating.
The thing is his trauma about cheating was his father being a cheater he has been prepared for this and its very minor. I never expected him to be more than upset about it. I never expected pandemonium from jow or even true anger just well fuck I should have known.
Joe’s trauma about cheating was always about being a cheater, not about being cheated on. I think that makes a difference.
The counterpoint to that is that Joe also had a lot of internalized gender-related stupid back at the beginning of the strip — I honestly think he spent so much time trying not to be his dad that he never once considered how it would feel to be his mom.
Of course he considered what being his mom would feel like. Empathy for that is literally why he was trying not to be his dad.
I’m splitting a hair inbetween “I never want to make anyone feel like my dad made my mom feel” and “I never thought I would feel LIKE my mom”, if that makes sense.
I think he’d considered the victim’s perspective, but I don’t think he’d ever considered he’d BE the victim.
well, a lot of people called it
also I don’t know if becky is gonna take this quite as hard as people are thinking
last time joyce had something to tell her re: autism she was like “oh so you’re gay. right?”
people are seeing this coming I think
I think that woukd be true if it wasnt Dorothy. I think it being Dorothy will make it worse
I think Becky is going to be *happy* about it. IDK why people think Becky would be like “what you’re gay for dorothy?!”: the Dotty/Becky “rivalry” is a meme to Becky, not a real thing
Thats a fair possibility but I think it will still be hurtful as hell for Becky because she may ne very happy with Dina she is not over Joyce. She still loves her both as a woman and her best friend
If everyone takes it relatively well I will be absolutely furious. I was told that this agonizing storyline would at least give me messy drama!
sorry the drama you seek is in another castle!
i think we will have relationship drama just not where and with whom we expect or want, damn those authors who have creative control, how dare they not write what we want! we demand DRAMA
Walky’s going to spiral and it’s gonna be great
Misread that as “going to go Spiral” and suddenly imagined Nightguy adding a pair of Kamina glasses to his getup.
Walky actually fully turns into a goo and starts slappin’ shit with his new rad tentacles.
i see walkys spiral being towards deprosion and self destruction, i see him diving wholly into replacing amazihgirl as she is out injured and letting himself get hurt/taking unnecessary risks.
i do not see him spirraling into a heel turn and gpinngfull incel as some have said
I don’t think she’s gonna take it super well
just not quite as bad as some people think
I’m not disappointed yet, but that’s because I still have heart eyes for potential mess and disaster (affectionate) for these three or four people attempting to navigate poly.
My pitchfork alongside yours, my liege
Yup I think the talk with Dorothy where he asked if she was into Joyce was a big hint he clearly didnt seem to believe her. I figure hes upset but hes mkre mature and also has a lot more romantic experience even if it was just sexual primarily. This is just a kiss and some flirting which is wrong but I never expected it to be the world shattering gut wrenching betrayal people clained from Joe’s perspective. I doubt hes okay with it but I expect hin to break up amd say you clearly need to work through this go do it. Go figure this out with her. And they sort of remain friends. I expect walky to crash out hard though
One interesting thing I think isn’t being talked about is how Joyce describes it. A mistake and idiocy she knows it was wrong and I’m glad were seeing she did know this even if her horny mind was being forefront
Do you know what strip she told this?
No I think shes trying to lighten the blow but my best guess is probably back when her sister showed up Jocelyn and she made a mistake
Props to Joe for presumably keeping a cool head through all this so far. Hopefully he maintains that, love his growth and would hate to see him backslide.
I mean… he doesn’t seem upset?
Which, is probably good news for their relationship. Still not a great sign that Joyce continued it for a couple nights in a row.
Since it shows that’s how she’d act if she thought it was real…
But does this count as tacit consent?
I think he is more resigned than upset. He knew there was a connection between them, talked with Dotty about it. The fact that it happened is more a confirmation than surprise for him.
It was one night like they kissed a bit and flirted that one night this is the next morning yeah Joyce and dorothy did wrong but it wasnt this heinous awful betrayal people keep playing it as. Its wrong but no I dont think Joe consents i assume hes just not that mad because its early and he sort of expected it andbhes just going to break up and say go deal with this it obviously been building go sort things out and figure yourself out
One night. It’s been less than 24 hours since the first kiss.
Although there was that especially gay face caressing the night before.
One night. One single night. It’s only the day after the protest.
Joe is handling this rather well.
Booooooooo!!! I wanted to be able to pinpoint the exact moment his heart rips in half! This is not the drama I was promised when I laid down my sword and armor!
HA! I called Joe knowing.
Whirlakitty takes the lead to claim Wavy Jones (🦑), although we still need to wait to see if Walky knows.
Nymph might still be in the running though, if Walky doesn’t know, and two more people comment on Joyce/Dorothy before he finds out.
Sorry i was playing dave the diver and dred so i instinctively catched wavy jones so now he is seafood
Ok Joe, now read that pollyanna dork the riot act.
They have it coming
Bang to rights!
OH MY GOD. DAISY
Oh right, they’re both her work colleagues. That’s how she knows they’re both bi.
Good job outing your best Amazi-Girl lead and your only comic artist.
Second panel, last page.The tiny line under his eye as he answers the door. He was nervous opening it, but he still greeted her with a smile when he opened it.I think he’s more scared she came here to break up with him about it.
I could see this going like Joyce and Jacob. It would have been nice but now it’s over because Joyce’s actions. Jacob warned him that Joyce would do something like this. Joe could see it coming. Disappointed but not angry. Mature enough to move on without rancor.
didnt Joe strip naked in front of Joyce to bang her roommate ?
No. That didn’t happen.
She really doesn’t know what she’s doing. She’s easily overwhelmed and confused. It’s difficult for Joe to wrap his mind around the concept of repression, but every time Joyce had a feeling she had to pray and ask forgiveness for it.
Does it excuse anything? I don’t know, but it seems judgy to ignore it.
Wait, is that victim blaming? Joe, who has objectively been cheated on and learned about it from a newspaper photo, is being cast as “judgy”?
no we the audience are judgy is what i read in their comment
Yes, this. I’m talking about the audience. Joe, objectively wronged, isn’t done reacting but so far he’s being pretty even-handed considering. And he clearly saw this coming
Joyce, on the other hand, still can’t say “penis.” She is trying to keep her face above water. She’s hurting people and knows it. She needs experience and perspective she does not have to navigate her feelings. Having a lot of trouble keeping her balance.
You’re so good at putting succinctly, what half the readership cannot piece together from the literal text throwing this exact pattern in their faces for several years.
Yes Joyce is in the wrong. Yes, I’ve been very sad for Joe, and he’s right to feel as done dirty as he wants or needs to feel. But Joyce was singing hymns while some of us were doing sex ed, and was shielded from all forms of secular culture.
People being mad about her bad on behavior on behalf of other characters they like? That makes sense to me! But, holy shit, there is no reason to actually expect her to have any mastery of adult skills that she was actively prevented from learning or practicing until the exact moment she stepped foot into this strip.
She’s always in the wrong. But, I wouldn’t blame someone for blowing up a nuclear reactor, if I knew they were never allowed to learn to operate the damned thing, to begin with.
Joe’s not the one ignoring anything, he’s fully taking it into consideration here I think.
Joyce really needs to learn. This isn’t the first time she is messing around, she tried to break Jacob and Raidah up because of her “Love wins” beliefs.
Absolutely. One thing I learned attending a private Christian college is that the children of the ultra-religious (and pastors in particular) have never been allowed to make an ethical decision on their own in their entire lives. They’re the ones we had to help up the stairs and clean up and put to bed. They are the ones we had to explain about carrying condoms and not lying to yourself.
There are many reasons why people act badly. Fundamentally we are all created into who we are by circumstances outside out control. We don’t choose the environment we are born into, or whatever biological predispositions we are inclined to have.
Every person has a story of how why they choose the things they do…
But we can still say those things are shitty. And we can still say that a person who does shitty things isn’t a person we like very much.
And yeah, they will still have all sorts of reasons why they are the way they are… but that doesn’t diminish the impact they have on the world.
—
Joyce made shitty decisions to do selfish, hurtful things. Her biography explains why she is the sort of person to be making those decisions, but it is not an excuse.
Is this “judgy”? I think it is less judgy than alternatives because it at least it judges all people the same. We aren’t excusing some people and not excusing others. Instead it is about finding a way to navigate personal autonomy and determinism, ideally with empathy and optimism.
We can recognize her actions are destructive while understanding how they came about. No one is excused. But understanding is a practical tool to help someone.
I kinda think what Joyce needs to help her isn’t “we don’t blame you because you aren’t responsible for your actions”.
What Joyce needs is more of what Sarah was giving her: “Stop fucking about and do the right thing”.
Joyce knows her decisions were bad, but she made them anyway because she could keep excusing herself. She doesn’t need more excuses, she needs accountability.
As I’ve pointed out many times in the comments of many strips, she used to outsource 100% of her life’s accountability to God, and now she knows that God isn’t real. So, I’m not remotely shocked at her utterly failing to ethically police her own behavior; she’s actively in the process of unpacking the exact trauma of being ethically obsessed, to the point of it interfering with her daily life, that she picked up from her religiously-induced anxiety.
She realistically can’t move forward with healing from that, without massive fuck-ups along the way. She was dumped into the adult world, with a level of socialization and life skills that are more befitting the average pre-teen. She went from her only coping mechanism being manifested in the form of a religion-fueled anxiety disorder, to her secular self, who simply has not developed any new internal regulations on her behavior, because she hasn’t had the time to gain the needed skills, yet.
She’s getting the accountability right now, I’m almost sure of it. She’s literally in the process of facing consequences for her actions. They’re happening as we speak, and she’s going to experience a great deal of pain from them. It’s gonna happen to her in-universe, and it’s gonna suck for her in-universe.
I can enjoy the story doing that to her, and the downstream consequences of that, and still maintain some level of empathy for her here in the comments, because the story has given me an omniscient understanding that the depths of her personal failings, are themselves a result of her entire support network having entirely failed her, for literally the first eighteen years of her life.
She’s catastrophically wrong, but most people learn the necessary skills to start controlling their own behavior and develop their own internal sense of ethics around (IIRC) eight years old, when the necessary parts of the brain first start forming. Joyce skipped that entire process in favor of obligate zealotry. She is trying to catch up to the average eighteen year old, while everybody has a ten year head start.
Recent discussions of Buffy have me thinking of one of the lines from it that I really like, from Season 3.
“To forgive is an act of compassion, Buffy. It’s not done because people deserve it, it’s done because they need it.”
I like this attitude for a number of reasons. I like what Buffy and Angel have to say about “redemption” more generally.
Important to note: nothing about the above quote obligates anyone to forgive anyone else. A person can also deserve forgiveness in a very general sense without any specific person being obligated to provide it. Just because someone has changed doesn’t mean you, personally, need to let them back into your life.
couldn’t say anything better than that last paragraph even if i tried
❤️
Nicely done, Willis.
…well then. Things just became both way easier and way more complicated
please, please, let polyamory solve this. i love joe/joyce too much for it to end.
side thought for those who adore the adorable
https://mangadex.org/title/cdb5d636-0dc4-4b1b-81b0-36164ba3db2c/a-story-about-a-cat-reincarnated-in-a-different-world-where-there-are-no-cats
check this out
Some of us predicted this * But Not the Bipun headline. Who wrote this? danny?
I am going to look forward as this headline Gets plastered everywhere: Joyce , way to steal your sisters coming out Thunder to your father.
*it seemed like a thing as we had prior Joyce and walky, Then Dorothy and walky, full kissing spreads. cut out the middlewalky and go Meta
For anyone who wants to know more about NPD from someone who lives with it, a creator on Patreon put together a sensitivity guide for creating characters with NPD.
This is really interesting. Thank you for sharing this
You’re welcome!
Probably doesn’t help matters any that it is one of three traits considered as part of a Dark Triad, and how that Dark Triad hit public conciousness and as such gets over simplified to, “These are the three things that indicate an evil person”
Definitely a fascinating read, and will help me with some character writing
❤️
On the one hand, if Joe handles this maturely, then good for him. Speaks well of him as a person, and his progression.
On the other hand nooooo I was promised messy cheating drama!! You can’t handle this like reasonable people!! I want MESS!!
Becky is incoming. Like some people have already posted, I think this is why Dina seemed very frosty to Dorothy’s questions about Amber.
I see where you’re coming from, but to me it doesn’t feel like *satisfying* Messy Cheating Drama unless at least 60% of it is coming from, like. The people actually in the relationship.
I have been saying for awhile that it’s *possible* that Becky is not going to be as upset about this as people think, or, I would say more likely, she won’t be upset about the aspects of this that people are expecting. I think her fear of sexuality being fluid is going to blow up over this, but I think she’s largely moved on from her crush on Joyce. The fact that Joyce and Dotty also explicitly expected her to respond the worst in advance, just narratively, suggests that she’s going to be less of a problem. Actually, at the moment, I feel like right now the narrative is setting up *Walky* to be the one that has the worst reaction.
But I’ll call this much: Whichever one we see *last*? That’s the worst one. The other two will lull us into a false sense of security so the third can come and hit us directly in the feels.
Walky does exist and was cheated on.
You’d never know given how people talk about the polycule golden ending is Joyce in between Dorothy and Joe lmao.
To be fair, I don’t think it’s on anybody having any animosity for Walky; it’s just that Dorothy pretty much said, to his face, that she already isn’t taking their relationship seriously, and then we all watched him hear that, and internalize it.
It wasn’t what Dorothy was trying to say, or what she meant…but it was definitely the truth.
Oh be assured, I want Walky to turn into the Joker. I want him to go sicko mode.
But he hasn’t been the one on screen yet so I’m not commenting on him as much.
I believe Joe first noticed something was between them way back when they were saying “I love you” to each other and he commented “lot of ‘love you’s going around’ or something, with a questioning glance.
So his reaction when Dorothy confirmed it for him a little later made sense, “she feels like the whole world, doesn’t she?” He was both sympathizing with her and encouraging her not to hold it in, because he knew how painful that could be. In a way, by not drawing a line and staking a claim, he gave her his blessing.
THAT reaction set the table for his reaction here, where he’s more blasé and teasing than upset. He’s likely a LITTLE angry, but I think he saw this coming. How he reacts from here will be interesting. Poly route is on the table, which would be messy to navigate (just the thing Willis likes to focus on). An amicable breakup is possible. Opening the relationship to allow them both to date outside of their relationship is feasible. And we haven’t even seen Walky’s reaction yet.
Also, it should be noted that Joyce isn’t necessarily enthusiastic about being sexual with a guy. A lot of her explorations were more about him touching her than the other way around. That’s definitely something Joe would notice.
She literally gave him oral sex last night.
Joyce is many things, and one of those things is, in fact, sexually attracted to 6 foot something, well-muscled men.
Did she do it because she wanted to, or because she felt obligated to? That distiction matters.
I mean, taking in account yesterday how he had powerful sexual kindness that would defeat her…
Women can be bisexual, you know? She has shown to be extremely horny for Joe over several IRL years now.
Anything to deny a bi
Not sayIng she’s not bi, that could totally be the case.
It’s been my observation, though, that she seems less attracted to men than she is to Dorothy in particular. Based on that alone, I can’t say where she lands on the LGBT dartboard.
Does it even matter where she “lands on the LGBT dartboard”?
She’s been attracted to a number of men, but not all (and her dream from https://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/06-strange-beerfellows/thing/ indicates it’s not just because she thinks she “should” be attracted to men).
She’s attracted to Dorothy and might’ve been attracted to other women if she hadn’t repressed that aspect of herself (see also https://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/03-answers-in-hennessy/inevitable/ — the strip before the infamous “You’re still staring at them” one).
But there are both men and women she’s very much not attracted to. Walky, in particular, and also Becky (much to the latter’s earlier distress), but the vast majority of people in the comic don’t seem to register on her horny radar.
Why is there a need to assign a label if all that matters is merely which specific individuals she is and isn’t attracted to? Labels can be useful for self-identification and self-discovery, but what’s the benefit of assigning them to others?
As to your later mention of your bi friends: I don’t want to tell you what to do (and don’t know them so can’t rule out the possibility they enjoy you keeping a running tally of their male versus female romantic exploits) but personally, I generally favour just going along with whatever terminology a given friend prefers, instead of trying to calculate specific levels of attraction without their input. Besides, this doesn’t require drawing up spreadsheets to pick out the exact ratio of attractions.
Then again, maybe you like the spreadsheets? Don’t worry, there’ll always be data to spreadsheet.
Not to mention Jacob, Ethan, and that one boy from her childhood church whose house she would bike past. The one she vehemently denies ever having crushed on.
Not denying those, either.
I guess I’m approaching it from the angle of, if she’s bi, is it more like a 50/50 thing, a 70/30 thing, or “only gay for one girl, straight everyone else” kinda thing (because she’s never shown interest in any other women, but said that Dorothy ‘always had [her]’, implying she was deeply in love with her for a while before their first kiss).
I don’t know, really, so I don’t want to make any declarative statements beyond the impressions and observations I’ve made.
Bisexual blood quantum
oh god this is a perfect way to describe this splitting of hairs and ratios…
I don’t think ratios are a great way to understand bisexuality because people aren’t ever just their gender. What proportion of people of different genders someone likes is going to depend on the sample size.
I like some guys, I like some girls, and I like some other people too.
Whether I like a particular person isn’t some sort of randomized lottery with an X% chance based on gender.
An exclusively monosexual person won’t like every person of the gender they are attracted to, but we don’t describe them as 50/0 or whatever. People only ask this question about bi people, as if men and women are somehow competing for their sexual preference.
It isn’t either/or. It is both. Both is good.
Nope. These are the rules now. After you roll for initiative y’all gotta roll 2d20 for horny score. XD
Going to add that even framing it as a ratio of men/women assumes a gender binary, which is not at all assumed by bisexuality.
I appreciate your perspective. But I also don’t want to misrepresent my bi friends, who at different times have expressed preferences for one gender over another. For the purposes of an internet comment, where certainty is an illusion and no one wants to wade through novel-length texts, I thought using ratios was an acceptable shorthand.
Just to add: I don’t want to accuse you of anything, and please don’t take this personally but… well, reading your comments in this thread provoked a snarky little voice in my head suggesting I ask if you remembered to put wheels on those goalposts so you wouldn’t strain yourself moving them.
That’s an uncharitable take and ignores the fact that, from a more careful reading of your comments, it seems like you’re genuinely trying to be considerate of people… but I just thought maybe you should be aware of how it could be interpreted.
(Also, it can be hard to resist the snark, so I was hoping I could get away with typing it yet disavowing it.)
Thanks for pointing out flaws, I’ll be more careful in the future. I don’t mind a little snark, it’s kinda unavoidable when people are passionate about something– especially when there’s personal experience involved. So, no worries, I don’t want to cause trouble haha.
>Joyce isn’t necessarily enthusiastic about being sexual with a guy.
You serious? She’s been having sexy dreams about Ethan. She’s been drooling over Jacob and was positively vibrating at the idea of sex with Joe. She is THIRSTY AS HELL.
Hell, there’s a strip of her lip-bitingly blushing while watching Joe’s sex tape. That girl is bi, but she’s definitely BI bi and not just some kind of obligatory/comphet bi.
Possibly even ♫♫ bi bi bi ♫♫
Referring perhaps to this song?
https://youtu.be/MKVtlGI1-fM
She’s enthusiastic about it, but also terrified of it, which is something that’s not uncommon even in teenage girls who grew up in much less culty environments than Joyce did.
She’s given him a handjob and a blowjob in the first couple weeks dating. (And let him touch her down there.) That’s not a sign she’s not into men. For an ex-fundy, that’s speed-running it.
And, despite talking about how it would be easier, she’s done less sexually with Dorothy than Joe. Which you could blame on the shorter time, but she’s done more sexually with Joe since she kissed Dorothy.
Haha, this is great. I wonder if Daisy took the photo. Daisy should get a Pulitzer for this.
You know what would be funny? If Joyce were able to pass this off like “That’s not me, that’s definitely Jocelyn!”
I mean, it has been established that the Brown siblings are uncannily similar. Like, that might even work on people who don’t know Joyce and/or Jocelyn personally.
Also:
— Not “Hayes Code”-esque of people to be disappointed if a given story element doesn’t pay off in the way they hoped it would.
— Concerningly “Hayes Code”-esque of people to complain that it’s “wrong” (morally wrong) for a creator to not clearly and unambiguously condemn bad behavior within the narrative. Like, genuinely concerning! Back up a step there and reexamine your footing to make sure you’re not on a slippery slope. Fiction =! moral instruction, not should it.
— Borderline “Hayes Code”-esque of people to talk about fiction written for an adult audience as if every good thing that happens to a character is that character being rewarded for their behavior, and vice versa. Not really on the slope, not necessarily a cause for concern, but this mentality IS accepting the logic behind the Hayes Code, just doing it unconsciously.
CLARIFYING: what I mean by “accepting the logic behind the Hayes Code” is that the Hayes Code mandated that negative character actions must result in narrative punishment, and a lot of us grew up absolutely steeped in that style of storytelling to the point where it’s weird to see it subverted, but there are genuinely SO many other ways of telling stories.
(It also happened to define “being gay” as a negative character action.)
I feel like this is aimed at me and how I’m saying I don’t want the story to reward Joyce.
If it isn’t, fair dinkum. If it is-also fair dinkum, it’s a valid point.
So, first off- there’s a great little reference in one of the Wraith Squadron X-Wing novels that touches on this sort of thing. An Imperial is watching a movie about high-wire walkers and freezes on the end as the protagonist falls to his death, thinking about how “all imperial-produced media had to show the consequences of deviant behavior”.
And I’m not arguing that any mistake Joyce makes needs to be punished. Just this specific one. Because the “punishment” is the guy she cheated on getting upset and/or breaking up with her. Which is a pretty logical thing to happen when one cheats. I’m not interested in the narrative punishing her in other ways, just this one. Because Joe potentially being hurt by this is the only reason it was a mistake in the first place.
I don’t mean this to be like. Dismissive. Please don’t take it as such. But also Joe not being particularly hurt would be queerness. And yeah, like basically all the rest of queerness, it would be uncommon behavior because if it were normal it would probably not be queer. But isn’t that queer subversion of the monogamous tropes even a little interesting? Like it doesn’t have to be what you want to see, I’m not trying to tell you it should be, but… I actually think the subversion of the culturally mandated natural consequences IS an interesting queer story, with a subtler different set of consequences that befit the kinds of concerns that kind of queerness is worried about.
It doesn’t have to be a queer story you’re interested in, lord knows I am not interested in every queer story just on the basis of it being queer, but like. I don’t think the natural consequences thing is as strong as you think it is.
There has been a lot of mixing of issues here.
Joe being okay with polyamory/not being jealous absolutely would be queer and would subvert monogamy norms.
Monogamy vs polyamory isn’t the issue here. Joyce didn’t mess up because she had romantic relations with two people. She messed up because she had romantic relations while in a monogamous relationship, and then kept doing it and hid it from her partner.
The issue is about honesty and trust.
This is also a good point, and a nice use of queer lit theory!
I took pains to separate out just “not liking what’s happening in the story” from the specific problem of expecting negative actions to always have negative consequences, so. Unless the latter is how you feel, this comment was explicitly not about you, and I didn’t have any specific people in mind.
(If anything I started it with the intent of pushing back a little on someone I saw being too broad. Hayes Code != “not liking it when a thing happens”!)
(Using this post to reply to your Robotnik/Eggman comic bit since it ran out of replies)
Wait… seriously?! My dumb ass just assumed he was named Robotnik because you know, he built robots. I was also unaware he even had a first name.
I mean, it’s not as toxic as the story behind Baron Vladimir Harkonnen… but damn, son.
Looking at the history of the word “robot” and especially “robotnik” is a fun little activity.
As for Robotnik himself, I can’t pass up an opportunity to shout out Long John Baldry and his iconic voice work on Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog. If you haven’t watched it before, I highly recommend it. Eggman was also briefly voiced by Jim Cummings, but so was everyone so who gives a shit really. Baldry was the best to ever do it.
Good lord, Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog… there is a name I’ve not heard in a long, long, long time.
I think about it daily. Occasionally I’ll rewatch the whole thing, to remind me where I came from.
100%, that voice is the Best.
Yep! That is why.
I think stories do carry messages, and it is very reasonable for people to disagree with, dislike, and critique the messages in a story.
For example if a story presents a racist stereotype we don’t just shrug and say “oh, that was just that one character in the story. It isn’t making any claim about race in general”.
Stories normalize behaviors and actions. When a story presents racism without critique, it normalizes racism. When a story presents sexism by main characters without any meaningful response, the story normalizes sexism. It is a sexist story.
You’re missing the point on purpose.
I understand the point, I just think it is exaggerated in the context of this comic.
There is a middle ground between the Hayes-code and “no critique ever”. That middle ground is where most people actually are. Saying people are “Hayes Code-esque” for critiquing the messaging in a piece of media is gross hyperbole.
TLDR: Critiquing media is not a “slippery slope”
I’ll take your word for it that you fall into your alleged middle ground.
Oh, yes, I agree — it’s terrible that nothing in the story ever hinted that they might be doing anything wrong by cheating.
Sarah? What’s a Sarah?
I can go more into my critiques of how the comic covered this if you would like, but they aren’t core to the point I am making.
All I am saying right now is that it is very reasonable to critique media for having a message that you think is bad. On the other hand it is unreasonable to compare people criticizing a piece of media to legislation censoring media.
All a critic can do is say “this is bad” and not watch it. This is massively different from legislators passing a law and using the government monopoly on violence to enforce it.
Your examples don’t really connect to what’s being talked about. Different things will in fact be treated differently (i.e. racism and cheating). Racist stereotypes or sexist tropes reflect systems in place and (actively or passively) are used to further enforce it – it’s just not remotely the same as someone seeing a comic online and going “wow! I guess it’s really cool to cheat”. Like I’m sorry but that’s nothing.
(Also, plenty of people are critiquing the comic just fine without falling back on how how it’s depicting bad behavior without proper punishment or whatever – it’s not hard.)
This.
me: “Anyway, stories that aren’t aimed at literal children don’t always have to explicitly condemn bad actions taken by the characters, and if you feel like they do or should, that’s probably because Hayes Code-era media has influenced your expectations more than you realize.”
You, for some reason: “Are you saying I’m not allowed to criticize racism in media?”
hah, breaking (up) news
oops
My question is whether or not that paper was published ‘today’ or ‘yesterday.’ Or more specifically did Joe know she was cheating when he got her the blanket and accepted the BJ? If so, I am probably going to be disappointed by how dumb this storyline is about to get.
very likely published 6am that morning for the physical paper, but the real question we do not have an answer for is: do they publish some form of online version, emailed or site based? if so when to they post to that?
i do not think joe was aware the previous evening. but i am also firmly in the joes being less hurt than most think and handling it like he has been with patience compassion and listening
It seems like some folks feel that Joe not castigating Joyce is the same as the *strip* saying Joyce did nothing wrong. The only thing it’s saying is she didn’t cross a line that *Joe* finds unforgivable.
It’s a dealbreaker for some folks, it’s not for others. Joe’s fears and insecurities were about *him* fucking up and hurting her. While it can seem the same it’s an entirely different kettle of fish. It’s possible her not being perfect makes it easier for him to not have to walk on eggshells.
Not saying he’s going to be, and certainly doesn’t need to be, perfectly happy and fine with all that went down but even if he is that’s not the same as saying no foul was committed.
She did what she did, people can judge it as they like, but it’s each to their own (especially when ‘they’ are fictional characters) how they choose to react.
I feel like streaming services have destroyed peoples’ ability to wait for the goddamn story. We’re one strip into Joe confronting Joyce. ONE. The fact that he’s, I don’t know, not screaming his head off about this (commenters fantasizing about a man yelling at a woman? shocker) is considered to be the story’s endorsement of Joyce’s mistakes is just…
No, you know what? I’m gonna go to my favorite restaurant for my weekly lunch. It’ll be nice to get out of the house.
good for getting out of the house os important
I feel like the commentariat could do with a field trip, honestly. Somewhere nice, with lots of nature. Lots of grass.
While there’s nothing wrong about discussing the comic while the situation’s still playing out, too many people are acting like stereotypical 19th century paleontologists coming up with an entire imaginary creature based solely on a single fossilized claw.
It somehow only now struck me that this strip’s called “promise nothing”. While that follows the usual trend of using words from the strip as the title, it could also maybe be intended as a hint that we shouldn’t jump to conclusions?
Then again, that itself is unfounded speculation.
I don’t think this has anything to do with streaming services, but with the incredibly decompressed storytelling of this comic. The commentariat here have been this way for years.
We analyze each strip to death because we get them one at a time. People used to talk about one episode of a TV show for a week until the next one came out. Now we talk about 4 panels for a day until the next one.
I specifically invoked streaming services for a phenomenon I’ve noticed for over a decade and has only gotten worse, and I’m not the only one.
We don’t even know that he doesn’t find it unforgivable yet. Not ripping her head off when she walked in the door doesn’t mean that. There’s still a whole rest of this conversation to be had.
Although all signs point to he saw this coming a mile away which is likely to temper his anger.
Also, you can really find something like this unforgivable and still not rip someone’s head off (even figuratively) about it.
Ask me how I know
Frankly, it’d be pretty on-brand with his character improvement arc if he’s coming at this from “I am not about to yell at a woman who’s half my size, no matter how upset I am, so I will be very controlled about how pissed I am.”
Which might well bleed over as deadpan snark if he’s trying hard enough, like say taking a mocking tone about how he already knows she kissed Dorothy.
Jesus, Daisy. Really? There was a protest turned police riot, but you put THIS on the front page?
Daisy is 100% a relationship sicko
Consider that Daisy is
1: An extremely hopeless sapphic
2: Has a scoop on a weird specific detail that likely no actual major publications would talk about which will absolutely move papers due to shock value.
I 100% guarantee that any newspaper or broadcast with access to that photo would have used it
If they had a really good shot of Amazi-Girl, then that might have made front page instead, but this still would have been used.
Hey anyone exited for silksong.
We all waited 7 years for Silksong… but I waited 13 years for Routine.
That’s neck-and-neck with the folks who (think they) waited 14 years between mainline Kingdom Hearts games.
I also waited 13 years for Duke Nukem Forever and we all know how that turned out, lmao
Sometimes the wait isn’t worth it. I have high hopes for Silksong and Routine, tho.
I actually don’t know much about Duke Nukem Forever, beyond the name being occasionally brought up as a punchline with no setup. I get the impression it wasn’t very well received, but honestly gamer memes from Back Then haven’t been a reliable source of information for me. Look how much shit Final Fantasy 13 got, for example. It was reduced to “lmao hallway” for over a decade, but I started playing it a couple months ago and it’s Fine, Actually™. Just, “we all know how that turned out” isn’t a useful metric for judging quality, is all.
Fomr what I heard Duke Nukem Forever was just really mediocre. Like it was a meh fps that tries to be funny a lot and isn’t particularly funny.
It’s honestly sad. I was still in my early teens some 20+ years ago when this game was “Coming Soon” and boy was it a long and ultimately disappointing wait.
From what I understand, the best thing Duke Nukem Forever did was inspire Yahtzee’s parody review, and even that came out before the game did, so it didn’t even provide much inspiration aside from its unreasonably long development time.
Oh, just to add, if you enjoy Yahtzee’s sense of humour and want more: he left The Escapist after some management stupidity and his stuff’s now under the name Fully Ramblomatic.
(I felt obliged to add this detail mostly because I just linked to a Zero Punctuation video, which is still owned by The Escapist, but feel uncomfortable about supporting them after said management stupidity.)
Yes, absolutely spread the word on this. Second Wind is awesome stuff and they deserve all they hype.
Short version is that DNF despite all the hype was badly undercooked. Duke 3D — one of my very favorite games in the whole wide world, I even named my blog after it (click my name!) — emphasized exploration and open map design, visceral gameplay and a palpably gloomy atmosphere to offset its satirical leanings. DNF offered none of that, with a script that bordered on character assassination for Duke himself. It’s since been revealed that a lot of content was cut from the game, some of it totally unnecessarily. This is on top of it not even being the final iteration of the game; there’s an earlier 2001 build that never saw the light of day. There’s a project to restore all the cut content to the 2006 build (which is what eventually released) as well as reviving the 2001 build.
Right? Honestly, the worst part about DNF is that Duke went from “Parody of action movie tropes” in D3D to “edgelord for the sake of sexist edge” in DNF.
It was like they decided that his entire character arc was going to mirror Kevin Sorbo’s real-life tragedy or something.
BUG DARK SOULS 2 ARE COMING!
Maybe that will stop the maniacs from making Any Radiance 4.0 or 5.0…
It’s never gonna come out. I’m waiting for the rugpull.
Hey, by expecting the worde thing you can get pleasantly surprised
Silksong waters weak cause I been waiting for a sequel to Ecco: the Tides of Time since 1994.
See y’all in like three months on September 4th though <3
Indiana Daily Student, Bloomington’s very own, rly published a probable cause célèbre…
tryst the process….
Tomorrow’s comic will just be Steve eating cereal. (iykyk)
we miss him so much.
I’d honestly pay for that crossover.
I’m super late today but ha ha we all told you so, daisy would never pass up this opportunity
TWIIIIIIIIIST
Well, I didn’t think Joe’d be up for a polycule, but he seems more amused than anything else at her guilty antics. And he doesn’t look like he wants to break up either. Even then, I still don’t see Dorothy going for it. Well, maybe in an “everybody’s casual” relationship kinda way. She certainly didn’t seem jealous about Joyce getting “distracted” either.
sickos cheated out of chaos if this is a “and they’re ok with it” cop-out
I get all the chaos i need out of the comments so i am happy either way.
yawn, yes, we know you’re a troll
You have a very strange definition of what “trolling” is.
i mean, you’re talking like the story has concluded, it’s only getting started. this is just the appetizer, i suspect the sickos are about to eat damn well in the coming days.
no, I’m not. I said if
Well, it’s here, the exact part of this plot I have been waiting to determine if I’m going to keep reading this comic or not. This whole plot line has been genuinely painful for me. For one, the active character assassination of Joyce who we have watched develop over time to learn to properly communicate the way she wants her emotions to be perceived has been heart breaking. Second It is increasingly painful to see the plot thread of “Bisexuals always cheat.” come about in this comic, a place I had originally seen as a safe have from these types of tropes that actively hurt my community. Third, it’s clear this was strictly done to cause drama, between the backdrop of a protest that actually happened int he real world, to the fact willis admitted he originally planned for this ship to sail in a couple years but got tired of the wait, sacrificing character development and a good story, just to have drama? This comic isn’t fun to read anymore, and hasn’t been since this plot started.
So first off, if you’re done with the comic then you’re done. I hope you find something better to occupy your time with and genuinely hope you feel better.
But I have to say:
1) Joyce is still communicating her emotions. She’s just communicating emotions you don’t want her to be feeling. I think she communicated just fine to Dorothy, and is now talking to Joe the next day. It’s a hard topic for her, but she’s muddling through it anyway (in a comical fashion because this is a comic.
2) One bisexual couple out of all the bisexuals in this comic is hardly “bisexuals always cheat”. It’s “these specific two bisexual people cheated” which does happen and is not unreasonable to include in a comic strip where there are several other very chill bisexual couples also being written: Ruth&Jason, Billie&Alice (new!), Danny&Sal, Asher&Ethan, Malaya&Marcie, etc. Bisexuals don’t always cheat, obviously, but they don’t never cheat, either.
3) Willis has already accepted critique on the protest problem and is actively fixing it as we speak. Short of going back in time to unwrite things, I’m not sure what more you expect them to do. It was fucked up, they owned it, apologized, and are making strides to put it right. They just don’t happen overnight.
Your last point is basically just “I disagree with how the writer chose to write their storylines and characters” which is an opinion you’re totally free to have and I have no pushback or debate on that. If you don’t like it, you don’t like it.
Either way, hope you have a better time tomorrow.
To add to that: Joyce’s developed over time mostly through personal (and often painful) experience. This is a thing she doesn’t have personal experience with… Remember how bad she was at so much basic social stuff when the strip began? We get to reexperience that!
1. I’m cool with her having feelings for Dorothy my guy. It’s a natural thing to develop feels for someone that close to you and I genuinely love it. My problem how it was forcefully developed for drama. Again even willis came out and said their love story was meant to have way more development, and I personally think that was the way to go. Communication was needed to more parties then Dorothy. If anything, the talk were having currently with Joe should of happened first. Not after.
2. But they didn’t half to cheat to get to the current story did they? Infact the current story literally would of came to the same result if the characters just talked, drama could have come from other angels. It didn’t need our main characters to cheat. That’s what makes it part of the trope.
3. Your correct. The protest thing is as best handled as it can be.
There’s nothing straight about how Joyce has been wearing Dorothy’s clothes.
Two days gay
Sounds about right
tbh dorothy and joyce have always dressed fairly similarly (see the sweatervest gag) so i am not surprised that most of us did not notice LOL ik i certainly didnt!!
Dang! Highest comment count ever?
Nah, not even close.