My personal headcanon is that in-comic, the comment section exists as comments on the school newspaper website under Joyce’s webcomic, but everybody knows who the comics are about, and so never bothers with Joyce’s fake names for them. Which makes my comment reaaaaallly weird in-universe, and likely to be dismissed as trolling by someone currently taking psychology and philosophy classes just to watch how people engage in the comment implying our reality is fake by creating an alternative meta-explanation for everybody’s in-joke, which makes the fact my comment references the head alien creating parallel universes now makes it seem like I’m just a sci-fi nerd who is just referencing something.
Welp, this is already off to a sorry start; Dina looks like she needs a socially acceptable greeting/hug right now. I know there’s no way around it, but it sucks that they have to go through this.
Forget this “resolution” and “Joyce burying her curiosity about polycules.” I’m sorry the melodrama tag got pulled by Dina, but I am not sorry it got pulled.
Cloud Strife and Billy Joel never expected to find themselves at each other’s throats, but disagreement over who is the greater inspiration for your comment has put us in this situation.
After watching too much anime, Amber discovers a curious Mead notebook with a veritable rainbow of colors already doodled into the white spots. It is… The QueerNote!
I’m just gonna take a moment and say that I LOVE panels 5 and 6. There’s something about that quiet, painful realization that just scratches my brain right.
Like honestly, the entire second half of today’s strip is just very much my shit, which is funny because it’s so lowkey.
Yeah, as skilled in observation and analysis that Dina is, Joyce is sort of a weak spot for her. She’s very much had Joyce pegged as trapped in a particular mindset since they met, and she didn’t expect that to move anytime soon.
I am interested as to why we read shrinking pupils in cartoon characters as shock, nervousness or fear. In actual humans, fight or flight causes the opposite reaction – pupils dilate and when startled our eyelids pull back. We even talk about “eyes going wide in shock.” Yet in cartoons the opposite occurs. Is it that we, the audience, just learned to interpret contraction of the size eye size to mean shock?
Is it some other instinctual emotion recognition factor is at play? For example, people tend to curl up when afraid. Are merely the shrunken irises somehow playing on the way our subconscious reads an entire body to connote stress?
Or is it projection? Large eyes are associated with calming, joy inducing young (babies, kittens, etc), but a sudden contraction to eyes far smaller than normal is maybe somewhat uncanny and rises a subconscious uncertainty or anxiety in the reader that they then project?
What the hell is going on here?!
I wonder if it has to do with the perception of cuteness. Bigger pupils means bigger eyes and we associate that with cute, so a different feel goes towards small pupils
Makes the sclera look larger.
Human shock face emphasizes the whites by widening the eye.cartoon shock emphasizes the whites by widening the eye and also shrinking the iris and pupil.
IRL the pupils dilate when the brain wants more information. Fear and Love will both produce iris dilation. Love says “I want to see more of this wonderful thing before me”. Fear says “Holy Crap! I need more info on this emergency STAT!”
Shock and Rage tend toward a shut out pin-point response. The brain doesn’t want/need info. For shock this injury has already occurred so we want to shut it out. In comics it can be used for humor – Dorothy says “I’m and atheist” and Joyce’s eyes pin point. It’s also used for grief as in Becky’s eye when Joyce and Dorothy kiss.
What damage in this case…? They’ve showed by far the most concern for Becky despite not actually being at fault for her feelings here. Like, it’s a shitty situation, but this is a Becky problem, not a Dorothy or Joyce problem at all.
Plus they got outed by the school newspaper–also not their fault. Things happen at protests. The majority of it is standing around for hours. If kissing a girl at a rally is a crime then lock me up too lol.
Honestly, it might have been worse (in terms of Becky at least) if they hadn’t been outed by the paper. Would they have tried to keep hiding it from her if it hadn’t been in the paper?
Dina can spend all day explaining to Becky that the situation is the same as when she thought Joyce was straight. It’s not an issue of Becky being “not good enough” for Joyce, they’re just incompatible in ways that Becky is blameless for.
But the words will mean nothing coming from Dina. She needs to hear it from Joyce. Which is a shitty situation to be in as Becky’s girlfriend, but Dina’s always a problem solver.
Yeah, I can see that. Going to Joe; asking him for help. ‘Course he’ll agree to help. (which will have nuance since it’s his girlfriend snogging on dorothy…)
Everyone else has to do the emotional labor to sort this out, while Dorothy and Joyce can just keep snogging and grinning at each other and being “cute”.
I am so concerned about Amber.
It sounds like Amazi-Girl was trying to do in the host body.
And Amber is just a pit of self-loathing all the time. Like a knot of sick in the pit of the stomach.
I’m glad she still has her courage and defiance and sense of responsibility. Those things can be powerful tethers to anchor one to the everyday world of living on earth.
That seems like a radical interpretation of the text. What makes you think Amazi-Girl wants to harm Amber? And how would that even be possible without harming Amazi-Girl as well?
Oh to peek into Dina’s mind. I wanna know what exactly upsets her most about this. Is it Becky’s lingering crush on Joyce being… well, crushed? Is it the cheating? Is it the fact that she and Becky have more competition for cutest girlfriends in the dorm?! WHICH IS IT
I bet it’s that Becky didn’t think she could tell her about it. She knows Becky still has feelings for Joyce, but they’ve been able to talk about it openly until now.
Or maybe she’s worried that if Dorothy and Joyce break up, Becky/Joyce will happen.
To be fair, Dina wouldn’t have to actually kill her. She could just bring Amber to a nice cabin somewhere, and install wifi. Nobody would know the difference, and if she has Amazon Prime, Amber would have no need to ever leave the woods.
Didn’t get a chance to say this the past two days cuz I showed up late, but the thing that kinda irks me both in universe and in the comments section in the conversation about Magic, Spirituality and science is that even the people (Dina, various others) who are rejecting Christianity or the belief in a god are running on the same underlying assumptions in the beliefs their criticizing.
For example, the idea the Magic and spirituality are supernatural and superstitious and are therefore the direction opposite of science. Magic and spirituality are *Supra-natural* and that is an important distinction.
That’s a very good point, actually. For example, while I don’t believe in a heaven or hell, I do think there is an afterlife based on events I’ve experienced that make me believe ghosts could exist. I just don’t even try to assume what that could entail.
I honestly believe in multiple afterlife’s that will be different for different people. So for my dad it was the catholic version of Heaven while for me It’s either Éber Donn or Tir Na Og (Not entirely sure how the per-christian Irish afterlife works).
Also, the way my Elder described Magic to me is using the Metaphor of gravity and magnetism. He said “When you drop a piece of metal, that’s gravity. When you hold a magnet above it, it sticks to the magnet. Does this mean Gravity no longer applies? Of course not, one just temporarily has more influence than the other.”
Aaw, Tir Na Og. I like the idea of multiple afterlives as well, honestly. Like, I’m never going to be able to prove what’s on the other side, so I don’t stress about it. Just because I don’t believe there’ll be a heaven or hell for me doesn’t mean I feel the need to get in the face of people who do believe in heaven and go “ha ha your afterlife is a lie”. That kind of behavior would just be immature.
I’ve always liked the idea of magic being like a form of science we just don’t understand yet, always loved when certain medias approach it from that direction.
I’ve talked about that idea with my dad too, sometimes I feel that a peaceful nothingness upon death might be great and other times I get the existential shivers at the idea of going from a thinking feeling individual to no awareness whatsoever as I merely disappear into the ether.
I wonder what Opus the Poet’s experience with that was?
Opus, if you’re around, I would appreciate learning your perspective.
I’ve never actually died, but my near-death experiences have all been filled with calm. Like stepping outside of life for a detached outside perspective.
“I’ve always liked the idea of magic being like a form of science we just don’t understand yet, always loved when certain medias approach it from that direction.”
This isn’t wrong, but it is incomplete. I will try to complete that for you as best I can, but that might take me a day to get everything typed up.
“I’ve always liked the idea of magic being like a form of science we just don’t understand yet, always loved when certain medias approach it from that direction.”
Again, this is not necessarily wrong, but it is very much incomplete, but to try to complete it I have to rely on or cite a couple of people (and like 10 books on various subjects) including Gene Gendlin (a philosopher who studied as a therapist), JT Garrett (An Irish and Cherokee Medicine elder), Alan Kilpatrick (An Irish and Cherokee nthropologistand historian) and oral transmissions from my elder James Lock (Bird clan and Paint clan), as well as drawing from Buddhist and Daoist wisdom traditions, so I apologize for the incoming wall of text. Also there are several texts I will be referencing, so I have just listed the titles so you can google them if you want and will refer back to them as needed. They’re not short but not overly long if you want to read them or watch them on your own.
(Kinds of theories and FUNCTIONAL WHOLES) – Eugene Gendlin
Dr. Shen’s Collections The Five Eyes
The Philosophy of the Implicit: An Introduction to the Work of Gene Gendlin-Robert Parker, PhD
A Philosophical Critique of the Concept of Narcissism: The Significance of the Awareness Movement – Eugene T. Gendlin
The problem with the idea that Magic is just another kind of science is that western science rely on some assumptions that most people take for granted because they’re kinda baked into the concepts people learn from an early age. One of those problems is what Gene Gendlin calls the Unit model of reality, which is that reality is composed of and divided up into separate units and those units stay the same no matter how they are re-arranged and combined. And Gene says the problem with this is that the theories that science relies on are constantly trying to rearrange these units into as fine and precise theories as possible and whatever doesn’t fit the theory or make sense get discarded and ignored, which works for making airplanes or computers, but not so mcuh for human beings or nature. Which means that scientific theories are constantly getting updated as new or previously ignored information gets added to the theory or new theory gets written which claims to rewrite what we previously knew. And that’s not to say scientific inquiry is bad. Without it we wouldn’t have things like Airplanes or computers and complaining about computers while using them is jut silly.
The opposite of this is what Gene calls the ecology model which is that reality is a huge interconnected system more complex than any theory could explain and not static and composed of units, but constantly in motion. The third kind of theory Gene mentioned is what he called functional wholes, which isn’t the full breath of ecology but when organisms are interacting and shaping their environment, we can temporarily separate and study the relationship as it interacts with its environment and plug back into the ecological model as necessary. And you need all these ways of looking at the world to have a better understanding. See also the link I included to The 5 eyes in the Buddhist tradition, which is about seeing things from 5 different perspectives.
This leads to what I said earlier about magic and the difference between supernatural and supra-natural. As my elder described it: “”Supernatural” is outside of nature, in whole or in part. The Gods, for example, are both inside and outside nature. They are both immanent and transcendent. Magic, however, being a human skill is “supra-naturual”. It’s part of nature but not part of the ordinary course of nature and more circumscribed and bounded in its actions than natural events. Like the magnetism example: gravity works in all non-interfered instances, but magnetism only affects solid objects in certain specific circumstances. When it does, it’s more powerful than the “usual” forces in play (gravity) but has to be brought into action specifically while gravity is constantly in play.”
So the modern christian idea of God that is omniscient and omnipotent and created everything and is therefore outside of nature and created nature……. is not really a thing in traditional societies or pagan traditions. The 5 eyes link I included in the beginning is really useful here, especially the Heavenly eye and the Buddha eye. The gods can see with the Heavenly eye and some can see beyond that with the Buddha eye, but even then it’s not the same level as omniscient and omnipotent.
So when you use magic there are 3 sources of energy you can draw from and this ties in nicely to The 3 kinds of theories Gendlin mentioned. There is your personal energy and skill as a magician/sorcerer (roughly analogous to the unit model), there’s the energy in nature that you can draw from, which there is a lot of but very diffuse (ecology model) and not concentrated and the energy you can borrow by petitioning gods or various kinds of spirits, which is based on your relationship with the gods or spirits and is much more concentrated and based on a reciprocal relationship (which is analogues to the functional wholes Gendlin talked about). So there are 3 sources of energy you can draw from when using magic.
Now I hear you saying, “Wait using energy to create magic? Isn’t that some supernatural nonsense?” And no, not really. I mean, for some people who don’t know what they’re doing, it’s essentially that, but not when you’re using magic correctly. In Einstein’s theory of relativity, we have the formula that E = mc squared. So energy and mass follow the same formula and can be worked with as such when doing magic. Which is why in the Cherokee tradition, medicine and spells were called sacred formula. Magic works on the quantum or relativity level.
So yeah, the issue I have with saying magic is just a form of science not yet understood is like saying that Einsteinian relativity or quantum physics are the same thing as Newetonian mechanics because they’re both physics. Which, again, very incomplete. Magic and science both are bound by natural law and are limited by it, but they are not the same thing. There’s more I could say here, but This is already a short essay.
Books or other source material drawing information from: The night has a Naked Soul – Witchcraft and Sorcery among the Western Cherokee – Alan Kilpatrick
Western Apache Witchcraft, Wisdom sits in places – Keith basso
Experiencing and the creation of Meaning, A Process Model, Focusing,Focusing Oriented Therapy – Eugene Gendlin
Healing the Soul Wound – Edurado Duran
Hexing and Warding are two sides of the same coin – Irish Pagan School
The Cherokee Herbal, The Cherokee Full Circle, Meditations with the Cherokee, Medicine of The Cherokee – JT Garrett
When you don’t believe in gods of course you are going to characterize that in terms of the gods you are being asked about. Dina and Dorothy might have other reasons to explain why they’re not Hindu or Wiccan, but it’s never been relevant to any conversation here.
Yes and no.
It’s quite common for atheists to characterize that in terms of the beliefs common in their subculture or in many specifically in the religious tradition they were raised in and broke away from. Not tied to what they’re being asked about, but to how they learned to think about god in the first place.
I’ve always said that the outright rejection of the concept that anything magic, supernatural or unexplained exists is, infact, really unscientific. Insomuch that Science begs to ask the question “This is highly unlikely to be real but I will not reject the concept of its existence if evidence of it existing crops up”.
Like it always bothers me when a show has like supernatural happenings happening regularly and the scientist character constantly tries to rationalize it and deny it’s existence rather than…figure it out. In a world of magic, science studies magic.
See, that’s the thing. When you study magic, it stops being magic. The entire concept relies on it not really existing. Magic that exists is called “physics”. Nothing real is “supernatural”, by definition. If it’s real, it’s simply natural.
If it exists, then it’s science. Science is the study and contextualizing if the world around us. If magic exists it is part of the world and therefore science. Something doesn’t cease tk be science just because we can’t explain or understand it or recreate it.
Does it though? Does it have to?
That’s one common take for fictional magic, but I don’t think it’s the only one. I don’t think it’s a necessary one.
You can argue it’s not supernatural by definition, but that doesn’t mean it’s physics or that it’s susceptible to study through scientific means. Consider magic that follows a paradigm more like art or craftsmanship than of science or engineering.
The last part I agree with – though the problem there tends to be that the scientist character has existed for their entire backstory in a world without magic, but also is well aware of plenty of debunked claims of the supernatural. We as the audience know they’re in a show with real supernatural stuff, but the characters don’t necessarily.
Obviously, this can be pushed too far.
For what little it’s worth, my take is that science and magic (real or imagined) are not necessarily incompatible, but are on different conceptual levels that require a different set of mental tools to navigate.
When you say supernatural, I hear outside the bounds of consensus reality, but that may not be what you actually mean.
While I wasn’t thrilled with Dina’s choice of words in yesterday’s strip, it still really sucks that she has to deal with Becky treating Joyce’s smooching of Dorothy as more of a faith shattering event than any of the other shit she had to deal with.
Even as someone who wouldn’t call himself a fan of Dina, she deserves better than that.
Yeah, Becky jumped in to keep any of the bad stuff that happened to her from happening to Joyce. Then Joyce infodumped it on him anyway. And nothing bad happened. Her worldview was that parents who find out their kids are gay always lash out, and now it was just her dad and her first girlfriend’s parents. She did all that for nothing, and now she feels disregarded. Rejection-Sensitive Dysphoria is a real bongo to deal with sometimes.
Oh Dina…
Becky you better not distance yourself from her or hurt her in any way. I get that you still had feelings for Joyce in some way, but your relationship with Dina was to far along and filled with to much love for you to pull a Ruth here.
I think the look she has in Panel 5 and 6 is her KNOWING how much this will fuck becky up, its not hurt on her part, its the continuation of the Fear she had already mentioned. She knew that Becky still held a flame for Joyce, it had not hindered their relationship so far, so I don’t think she is worrying about her own feelings right now.
This was the only outcome the second Joyce ran back to Dorothy to kiss her. Becky gets her heart broken because her suspicions about Dotty are absolutely true, and Dina is collateral damage because, as great of a girlfriend she is, she’s not Joyce.
Oh wow, I just flashed back to Walkyverse Dina finding out that Walky, despite having dated her for months, still holds a torch for Joyce. Is DoA Dina going to grab Becky and scream “Mine” as well?
You’re right. I’ve been watching this slow motion train wreck for awhile, and it’s not getting easier. I wish the goblins would come and take me away… right now.
Amber girl you’re letting your low self-worth cloud how you see things. Would it have happened at this exact moment without you? maybe not. but the whole thing is not on you
One secret upside to pretending that everything is your fault, is that it subtly reinforces the idea that you’re in control of everything around you. Accepting that bad things happen for reasons that aren’t your fault, is accepting that you can’t stop every bad thing from happening all the time; for someone who can’t accept the latter, it’s often less painful to just consistently self-inflict the former, as a cope.
Amber has the “Horn Note” it’s like the Death Note but every two names she writes in it get insatiably horny for each other and are drawn together by the universe.
Unfortunately while drunk one night she wrote down Dorothy and Joyce…and then the tits picture set everything into motion :C
i lovee dina and while i think her and becky work really well together i do think dina deserves to understand how much becky is still hung up on joyce & have the chance to process that . . .
At this point, I do think becky would choose to be with dina over joyce, even if joyce had come to her before dorothy so becky wasn’t actively hurt by them.
That said, that doesn’t mean becky is over joyce, and that doesn’t mean dina isn’t still hurt by feeling like the rebound (regardless of how true) which is fun
Oh huh. I know I wasn’t alone in assuming that Dina had already seen the paper because of her earlier reception to Dorothy. I didn’t expect this to be how she found out
Well yeah Becky you should’ve realized Dina was the wrong person (probably the worst person) to talk about this with before you walked in. Should’ve gone to Leslie, assuming she’s not in jail.
Just think, when this comic started we were only on the Fifth Doctor! And then a few years later, Willis became Dark Lord of the BBC and cancelled the show.
Maybe a controversial opinion. But I get why Dina is concerned/upset. But at the same time I cant fault Becky. Shes having a feeling she cant really control, she recognizes that the feeling isnt one she should really vocalize. Shes not faulting Dina or anything just dealing with an emotion inside her own head.
yeah i imagine joyce and becky wouldn’t have worked out but it’s understandable that even with a current wonderful gf someone you been in love with your whole life actually is capable of being attracted to ur gender chooses soemeone else
actually I’d argue that becky made it happen, who-knows-how-many years and strips ago, when she forced a very-securely sheltered christian Joyce to pick between her and god
Joyce didn’t have to do that to defend Dorothy from her parents. hell, that was just the opposite, she picked jesus over her parents. but becky put her in the situation of actively disobeying and defying literally every conceivable kind of authority; church, state, home, all of it. becky also put the idea into Joyce’s head that gay people weren’t some freaky sinful abstract that only exists in blue states and college campuses, they were just regular people you can find anywhere who are different, and hey turns out she’s known one all her life. there’s a metaphor about mustard seeds that applies here I think, if I was feeling flippant. and I do
becky’s problem, though, is that she expected her experiences to be universal. and honestly I can still remember Joyce going all awooga over the thought of brushing Sal’s hair so it’s not like becky was working with nothing here; but becky expected Joyce to feel exactly the same way, “your boy stuff was all talk” and so forth, and the fact that she was just a friend to Joyce reduced her to a sobbing wreck
which is by no means the worst thing to happen to the girl, even just in that story arc. but for all the challenges she’s had thrown at her, she’s not only come out the other side, she came out on top, with the kind of obnoxious gusto that wouldn’t let those two instances of “coming out” just now sneak past unnoticed. but god’s dead because she didn’t get one thing she wants. okay.
honestly, which part do you think stings more; that Joyce is indeed into other girls-just not her or that Joyce hooked up with the girl that becky has been actively trying to start shit with for the better part of her time in the comic? like not for nothin’ if there was a god that sounds like some shit he’d make happen just to get backy’s pride back in check
The two things are related. Becky doesn’t like Dorothy because on some level she recognizes Joyce’s attraction to her. I don’t think anyone made this happen, it was always going to happen provided Joyce got over her hangups about homosexuality.
I think something that a lot of people are overlooking is that fairly recently (okay, I don’t know how recent it was but it happened, okay?) is that when Becky saw that Dorothy was going through some shit, she told Dorothy that her trying to start shit was kind of an act, and that “I’ll always be on your side”. Unfortunately she didn’t know that the shit Dorothy was going through was her gay panic for Joyce.
So right now she’s not just reckoning with Joyce being into girls (but not her), it’s that Dorothy, someone who she sees as a friend, is good enough despite her saying many times she was not actually into girls either. So it feels like a betrayal from Dorothy on top of everything else.
Indeed. 🙁 Lovely piece of artwork on Willis’s part. I can just see Dina mentally connecting the dots and then coming to the inescapable conclusion as to why Becky would be so upset about Joyce and Dorothy dating now, and what that must mean for her place in Becky’s heart. (Love often means that there may forever be a part of your partner’s heart that belongs to another. It doesn’t mean that your partner doesn’t love YOU, but the knowledge that somebody else still holds a part of their love can be very hurtful depending on the person.)
Now I’m conflicted. On the one hand, we’ve already had two characters (Walky and Joe), who had every reason to be upset, react to the fallout in a surprisingly measured and reasonable way. To have a *third* character do the same would be kind of weird for a comic strip called “Dumbing of Age”.
On the other hand, if there’s one character in this strip that is prepared to tackle this situation in a mature and constructive way, that’s Dina. If *she* were to fall apart where Walky and Joe took it like champs, it’d be even weirder.
That’s true, but only in the sense that she couldn’t have expected Joyce and Dorothy to get together. She has always been aware that Becky still had unresolved feelings for Joyce.
Oh, definitely. But she never expected that to become… quite this flavor of pertinent? I guess? Personally, I’m anticipating Dina being incredibly upset on Becky’s behalf. Potentially also on Joe’s; the two of them seem to have a friendly rapport. Whether she experiences any personal insecurities with regards to Becky’s unresolved feelings remains to be seen – I could see it going either way. I do think you’re right that Dina is grounded and emotionally mature enough to approach this constructively, to be clear – but she is also deeply emotionally invested in Becky’s mental well-being and happiness. Joe and Walky obviously also care about Joyce and Dorothy’s happiness, respectively, but hurt personal feelings aside, *they* are seeing the people they care about giddy-happy. Dina very much is not.
All of which is to say, I’ll be surprised if Dina falls apart, but I also won’t think it’s weird if it happens.
Becky while she’s allowed to have complex emotions is still in one of the most stable relationships in the comic.
I’m hoping they dont break up. And while I had issue with how joyce and dotty got together I think overall its unfair for them to be upset about the fact they’re together… more how they got together and the wacky kind sorta cheating sure, but there’s def not really a reason to be upset at then because they’re together.
I’m worried becky and even dina may get really mad about this, becky because she justified the fact joyce wouldn’t be wkth her because she was “straight.” Dina over how it’s shaken becky and perhaps shaken their relationship.
Neither of which is joyce or Dorothy’s fault. Becky was coping with the rejection from joyce as “it’s not that she wouldn’t it’s thT she’s nkt attracted to women” and that’s a really not great way for her to had looked at it. Rather than just accepting her and joyce just being friends is the best for them she went more “well it can’t happen anyway so why worry about it.”
But she didn’t actually accept and move past her feelings because of it, because the idea that regardless of how she felt it could never happen she djdnt have to accept that joyce just doesn’t see her that way. It’s that she couldn’t now itsmclwar joyce just… isn’t interested romantically in becky, even tho that was always true.
It’s a trap I see alot of baby gays fall into, where they don’t take it as “they just dint see me this way” it they “CANT see me that way” which has enough of a difference to make you not have to accept it the same way. Its a little entitled, mostly just coping with heartbreak since alot of gay rejections come from the other just not being into the same sex.
It happened to me too. I was into a boy jn school, and I asked him out. He said he wasn’t interested in men.
Later he came out as bi so I decided to ask again, and he was more annoyed the 2nd time, which I get since he had already rejected me..the 2nd time hurt more, because it was just a “it’s not about who you’re attracted to. I’m just not into YOU.”
I’m rambling but the point is, Becky did not actually mentally address the rejection in a way that let’s her move on, she coped by saying it couldn’t happen, which made her woefully unprepared for dorothy and joyce getting together.
In fairness to you and Becky, it can be VERY hard to stop loving someone, especially if they haven’t actually done anything wrong to you except not be into you. It was like that with me and my first real love too. While she did like me, ultimately it turned out that she liked me more as a friend and confidante than as a lover (we did try dating, but the attraction was not as reciprocal from her side). So we parted ways, fairly amicably, and while time and distance has let me move on, there will forever be a part of my heart that remains with her, and there will always be that teeny little “What if it had worked?” thought at the back of my head wondering if things could have been different.
The strip where Sarah points out that Becky still has feelings for Joyce and Dina is, ultimately, some flavor of rebound. And Dina says she knows. I’m having trouble finding it but I vaguely remember a strong :C face there?
I like to think Dina is self-aware enough to not hate *Joyce* for this. *Joyce* did nothing wrong (wrt Becky, we can have conversations about what is and isn’t cheating but they would be entirely tangential to Joyce’s relationship with Becky)
honestly i’d kinda like if it WASN’T joyce being queer that made her doubt god. like, sure, that hurts a bit, but what if the motivation was something like:
– bad shit happened, becky got through it, becky believed something along the lines of “see this is proof god loves lesbians because of how i got through this”
– becky sees HOW MUCH BETTER IT COULD HAVE BEEN via joyce’s dad, who is from the same church as hers, being totally chill
– “oh this is what would have happened if god ACTUALLY loved lesbians, so he must not, so fuck religion”
which is not something dina would really understand, having never been religious herself.
You might still be right. Amber is the one laying out what she thinks is the reason for Becky possibly losing faith (I say “possibly” because it’s just as possible she’s angrier at god than she’s ever been but will recover). We haven’t actually heard from Becky on the subject.
“I am afraid.” Poor Dina. She is a scientist and knows the law of closed systems – energy in equals energy out. Any trauma with enough energy to kill God in Becky’s life could be enough to destroy Becky in her life.
I’ve been waiting for the return of this storyline since the panel of Dina alone in her room while Becky was concerned about Joyce ages and ages ago. Poor Dina 🙁
Alt text is possibly one of my favorite quotes from the Christopher Eccleston era of Doctor Who. Glad I’m not the only one who’s head it doesn’t live rent free in.
I realize that blaming herself for everything is Amber’s fetish, but I really think she’s taking too much responsibility for what happened. I’d say that, given Joyce’s muted reaction to the boob pic, probably nothing would have come of it if Joe hadn’t seen it and taken the opportunity to force Dorothy to confront her feelings. At worst, Amber’s like the guy who shot Archduke Franz Ferdinand. She’s the reason it happened right now, but it would have happened soon anyway.
Dina’s emotions don’t always show up on her face. That the revelation of Joyrothy (is that a good ship name? idk) caused this level of reaction is… ouch. I think I feel more for Dina than I do for Becky right now.
Becky’s faith was shook when she found out that Amazi Girl was god, actually, and responsible for everything.
Wait, is Amber Haruhi Suzumiya but pervy?
Dina, please go to your girlfriend and get to the bottom of this. You shouldn’t have to play second fiddle to Joyce: you’re soooooo much better than she is.
ehhhh you wanted it to happen but you can’t really manipulate people from afar like that, amber.
they still have to make choices and they boarded this train a long time ago.
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I like the alt-text’s implication that Amber considers getting Dorothy and Joyce together to be about the equivalent of ending the Time War.
Later they will deny the memory of The War Amber
Gonna be real weird when we find out that Joyce and Dorothy never actually kissed, 13 different Amber’s just made it *look* like they kissed
would she have made a good Dalek?
Don’t underestimate Amber’s amazing abilities. We already know she can read the comment section.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/03-when-god-closes-the-door/fuzzy/
My personal headcanon is that in-comic, the comment section exists as comments on the school newspaper website under Joyce’s webcomic, but everybody knows who the comics are about, and so never bothers with Joyce’s fake names for them. Which makes my comment reaaaaallly weird in-universe, and likely to be dismissed as trolling by someone currently taking psychology and philosophy classes just to watch how people engage in the comment implying our reality is fake by creating an alternative meta-explanation for everybody’s in-joke, which makes the fact my comment references the head alien creating parallel universes now makes it seem like I’m just a sci-fi nerd who is just referencing something.
For a long time, she thought she was just a survivor, but she’s not. She’s the winner.
The Porn Lord Victorious.
OOF.MP3
Welp, this is already off to a sorry start; Dina looks like she needs a socially acceptable greeting/hug right now. I know there’s no way around it, but it sucks that they have to go through this.
By Joe
My thoughts exactly
Becky. Don’t you hurt Dina.
Meanwhile I’m over here like “finally, some good, spicy conflict”
*this* doesn’t feel like it can be solved in just a few strips
Forget this “resolution” and “Joyce burying her curiosity about polycules.” I’m sorry the melodrama tag got pulled by Dina, but I am not sorry it got pulled.
Just waitm
I dont trust it wont be solved in the next page
Gentlemen, I give you….
The dumbest of all things in Dumbing of Age.
A damage that would involve most of the characters.
Dumbing of Age II: Dumbingest of Age
Maybe the real dumbs were the ofs we aged along the way
Dumb and dumber age
AMBER BABE YOU DIDN’T FORCE THIS.
You might’ve hastened it a lil’, but you certainly didn’t force it.
that avalanche had started looooooooong before
And it was way too late for the pebbles to vote.
We are all Kosh.
♪We didn’t start the avalanche! Snow was falling before we found our calling♪
Cloud Strife and Billy Joel never expected to find themselves at each other’s throats, but disagreement over who is the greater inspiration for your comment has put us in this situation.
wonder if amber would’ve thought it if she knew about the ‘sex list’ joyce made lol
Poor Dina
I’m honestly going to war for Dina. She didn’t deserve ANY of this.
Likewise. My oath to the Empress of Evolution always comes first T~T <3
it’s a tough spot; for sure, and you can bet its gonna be a fun conversation for both her and Becky.
amber made them gay
amber made them all gay
In her fanfic, and her real life.
I wonder if Amber has a fanfic about President Doris
I love the distinction that Amber got them together but Amazi-Girl was the one that saw them.
It’s the little things.
Through her Powers of Fanfic!
The series will end with Amber waking up from a nap in the Shortpacked! staff room
After watching too much anime, Amber discovers a curious Mead notebook with a veritable rainbow of colors already doodled into the white spots. It is… The QueerNote!
I’m just gonna take a moment and say that I LOVE panels 5 and 6. There’s something about that quiet, painful realization that just scratches my brain right.
Like honestly, the entire second half of today’s strip is just very much my shit, which is funny because it’s so lowkey.
(Nothing wrong with the first half, I just feel like I could hear everything from the second half very clearly, like a TV show)
It’s rare to see that kind of expression on Dina’s face, but she’s truly shocked by this revelation.
Yeah, as skilled in observation and analysis that Dina is, Joyce is sort of a weak spot for her. She’s very much had Joyce pegged as trapped in a particular mindset since they met, and she didn’t expect that to move anytime soon.
I don’t think I remember ever seeing Dina’s pupils shrink like this… this is baaad
😖😖😖
*plays “A Grim Fate” from Dragon Ball Kai CD on hacked muzak*
I am interested as to why we read shrinking pupils in cartoon characters as shock, nervousness or fear. In actual humans, fight or flight causes the opposite reaction – pupils dilate and when startled our eyelids pull back. We even talk about “eyes going wide in shock.” Yet in cartoons the opposite occurs. Is it that we, the audience, just learned to interpret contraction of the size eye size to mean shock?
Is it some other instinctual emotion recognition factor is at play? For example, people tend to curl up when afraid. Are merely the shrunken irises somehow playing on the way our subconscious reads an entire body to connote stress?
Or is it projection? Large eyes are associated with calming, joy inducing young (babies, kittens, etc), but a sudden contraction to eyes far smaller than normal is maybe somewhat uncanny and rises a subconscious uncertainty or anxiety in the reader that they then project?
What the hell is going on here?!
I wonder if it has to do with the perception of cuteness. Bigger pupils means bigger eyes and we associate that with cute, so a different feel goes towards small pupils
Makes the sclera look larger.
Human shock face emphasizes the whites by widening the eye.cartoon shock emphasizes the whites by widening the eye and also shrinking the iris and pupil.
Ohhh, that is clever. Thank you for your informative response.
Thank you both for your comments. I, too, was wondering about this.
IRL the pupils dilate when the brain wants more information. Fear and Love will both produce iris dilation. Love says “I want to see more of this wonderful thing before me”. Fear says “Holy Crap! I need more info on this emergency STAT!”
Shock and Rage tend toward a shut out pin-point response. The brain doesn’t want/need info. For shock this injury has already occurred so we want to shut it out. In comics it can be used for humor – Dorothy says “I’m and atheist” and Joyce’s eyes pin point. It’s also used for grief as in Becky’s eye when Joyce and Dorothy kiss.
I’m tired of them putting Ambers in the water, turning the friggen women gay!
It’s true, I do!
GET OUT OF THE WATER AMBER!
She can’t, the Shippers are waterboarding her for her powers.
It’s just a chemical Amber secretes that make people wanna gay kiss. Just wring her out into a tub.
oh i love conflict.
Makes me think of Alice.
Becky can no longer call herself the Doctor.
Dina is certainly going to do something stupid for Becky, isn’t she.
Or something extremely smart. Like giving the two some fucking perspective.
Dina is usually very logical, and knows that she’s the “rebound”, so it’s going to be interesting what direction this goes in.
Hopefully one that will make the two see just how ignorant of the damage they’ve done.
What damage in this case…? They’ve showed by far the most concern for Becky despite not actually being at fault for her feelings here. Like, it’s a shitty situation, but this is a Becky problem, not a Dorothy or Joyce problem at all.
Plus they got outed by the school newspaper–also not their fault. Things happen at protests. The majority of it is standing around for hours. If kissing a girl at a rally is a crime then lock me up too lol.
Honestly, it might have been worse (in terms of Becky at least) if they hadn’t been outed by the paper. Would they have tried to keep hiding it from her if it hadn’t been in the paper?
I’m kinda expecting her to talk to Joyothy and get them to talk to Becky.
Im kind of expecting her to talk to Joe. They’re friends, after all.
Yeah, that’s kind of what I think too.
Dina can spend all day explaining to Becky that the situation is the same as when she thought Joyce was straight. It’s not an issue of Becky being “not good enough” for Joyce, they’re just incompatible in ways that Becky is blameless for.
But the words will mean nothing coming from Dina. She needs to hear it from Joyce. Which is a shitty situation to be in as Becky’s girlfriend, but Dina’s always a problem solver.
Yeah, I can see that. Going to Joe; asking him for help. ‘Course he’ll agree to help. (which will have nuance since it’s his girlfriend snogging on dorothy…)
Everyone else has to do the emotional labor to sort this out, while Dorothy and Joyce can just keep snogging and grinning at each other and being “cute”.
I really don’t think Becky needs to hear more from Joyrothy right now.
I still stand by my thoughts from yesterday. Once they do talk about it, it will be fine.
Worse thing?
Bad Tina! Applying emotional language when “more intense” is more clinical.
Bad Gin for calling her Tina! 😛
How to tell the difference: Dina likes dinosaurs, Tina likes butts.
This raises the question of how they feel about dinosaur butts.
Is the dinosaur a zombie?
Wasn’t that the title of an anime?
I am so concerned about Amber.
It sounds like Amazi-Girl was trying to do in the host body.
And Amber is just a pit of self-loathing all the time. Like a knot of sick in the pit of the stomach.
I’m glad she still has her courage and defiance and sense of responsibility. Those things can be powerful tethers to anchor one to the everyday world of living on earth.
That seems like a radical interpretation of the text. What makes you think Amazi-Girl wants to harm Amber? And how would that even be possible without harming Amazi-Girl as well?
Oh, I’m probably wrong, I guess. I don’t parse well. Never mind!
Oh to peek into Dina’s mind. I wanna know what exactly upsets her most about this. Is it Becky’s lingering crush on Joyce being… well, crushed? Is it the cheating? Is it the fact that she and Becky have more competition for cutest girlfriends in the dorm?! WHICH IS IT
I bet it’s that Becky didn’t think she could tell her about it. She knows Becky still has feelings for Joyce, but they’ve been able to talk about it openly until now.
Or maybe she’s worried that if Dorothy and Joyce break up, Becky/Joyce will happen.
Or comingnto the realization that Becky’s crush on Joyce is what pushed her away from religion over everything horrible that’s happened to her
It’s the realization that now she is required to kill
Amber.
To be fair, Dina wouldn’t have to actually kill her. She could just bring Amber to a nice cabin somewhere, and install wifi. Nobody would know the difference, and if she has Amazon Prime, Amber would have no need to ever leave the woods.
It is a fair point.
But would Amazi-Girl stay there?
Do we think Dina is going to go, and find Becky so they can talk about this, or is Dina about to stay in her room feeling depressed?
Mess Cravers when they get the mess they craved:
we go HELL YEAH this is what we wanted. I hope willis makes this as catastrophic as they can
Oh, I am here for it.
Amber in this one specific case, Dorothy and Joyce sucking face is not the problem.
I have never heard of making out being referred to as sucking face, and thank you because that is so funny
Trying to eat each other’s tongues.
Trying to feed each other their tongues
Playing Tonsil Hockey.
We do see the sibling resemblance between Amber and Joe
LOL! XD
I can’t bear to see Dina sad… This is cruel, Willis
“Well, well, look who’s here, the consequences of my actions.”
Dina is literally the best character in this series, she doesn’t deserve this
Shit. I do not like seeing that face on my favorite character in the comic.
it was me
it was me
it was me
it was me
It was you!
I REGRET NOTHING
“Eventually,
KarsMojo stopped thinking”Oh yeah this is gonna be rough for Dina.
Also re that alt text, do I take it you’re getting into Dr Who?
Didn’t get a chance to say this the past two days cuz I showed up late, but the thing that kinda irks me both in universe and in the comments section in the conversation about Magic, Spirituality and science is that even the people (Dina, various others) who are rejecting Christianity or the belief in a god are running on the same underlying assumptions in the beliefs their criticizing.
For example, the idea the Magic and spirituality are supernatural and superstitious and are therefore the direction opposite of science. Magic and spirituality are *Supra-natural* and that is an important distinction.
That’s a very good point, actually. For example, while I don’t believe in a heaven or hell, I do think there is an afterlife based on events I’ve experienced that make me believe ghosts could exist. I just don’t even try to assume what that could entail.
I honestly believe in multiple afterlife’s that will be different for different people. So for my dad it was the catholic version of Heaven while for me It’s either Éber Donn or Tir Na Og (Not entirely sure how the per-christian Irish afterlife works).
Also, the way my Elder described Magic to me is using the Metaphor of gravity and magnetism. He said “When you drop a piece of metal, that’s gravity. When you hold a magnet above it, it sticks to the magnet. Does this mean Gravity no longer applies? Of course not, one just temporarily has more influence than the other.”
Aaw, Tir Na Og. I like the idea of multiple afterlives as well, honestly. Like, I’m never going to be able to prove what’s on the other side, so I don’t stress about it. Just because I don’t believe there’ll be a heaven or hell for me doesn’t mean I feel the need to get in the face of people who do believe in heaven and go “ha ha your afterlife is a lie”. That kind of behavior would just be immature.
I’ve always liked the idea of magic being like a form of science we just don’t understand yet, always loved when certain medias approach it from that direction.
The one friend I have who’s died and come back isn’t afraid of death, but she didn’t report an afterlife either. She said it was peaceful, though.
“The grave’s a fine and private place,
But none I think do there embrace.”
I’ve talked about that idea with my dad too, sometimes I feel that a peaceful nothingness upon death might be great and other times I get the existential shivers at the idea of going from a thinking feeling individual to no awareness whatsoever as I merely disappear into the ether.
I wonder what Opus the Poet’s experience with that was?
Opus, if you’re around, I would appreciate learning your perspective.
I’ve never actually died, but my near-death experiences have all been filled with calm. Like stepping outside of life for a detached outside perspective.
…And a sense of deep compassion. Definitely felt overwhelmed – like floating in a suspension of liquid compassion.
“I’ve always liked the idea of magic being like a form of science we just don’t understand yet, always loved when certain medias approach it from that direction.”
This isn’t wrong, but it is incomplete. I will try to complete that for you as best I can, but that might take me a day to get everything typed up.
“I’ve always liked the idea of magic being like a form of science we just don’t understand yet, always loved when certain medias approach it from that direction.”
Again, this is not necessarily wrong, but it is very much incomplete, but to try to complete it I have to rely on or cite a couple of people (and like 10 books on various subjects) including Gene Gendlin (a philosopher who studied as a therapist), JT Garrett (An Irish and Cherokee Medicine elder), Alan Kilpatrick (An Irish and Cherokee nthropologistand historian) and oral transmissions from my elder James Lock (Bird clan and Paint clan), as well as drawing from Buddhist and Daoist wisdom traditions, so I apologize for the incoming wall of text. Also there are several texts I will be referencing, so I have just listed the titles so you can google them if you want and will refer back to them as needed. They’re not short but not overly long if you want to read them or watch them on your own.
(Kinds of theories and FUNCTIONAL WHOLES) – Eugene Gendlin
Dr. Shen’s Collections The Five Eyes
The Philosophy of the Implicit: An Introduction to the Work of Gene Gendlin-Robert Parker, PhD
A Philosophical Critique of the Concept of Narcissism: The Significance of the Awareness Movement – Eugene T. Gendlin
The problem with the idea that Magic is just another kind of science is that western science rely on some assumptions that most people take for granted because they’re kinda baked into the concepts people learn from an early age. One of those problems is what Gene Gendlin calls the Unit model of reality, which is that reality is composed of and divided up into separate units and those units stay the same no matter how they are re-arranged and combined. And Gene says the problem with this is that the theories that science relies on are constantly trying to rearrange these units into as fine and precise theories as possible and whatever doesn’t fit the theory or make sense get discarded and ignored, which works for making airplanes or computers, but not so mcuh for human beings or nature. Which means that scientific theories are constantly getting updated as new or previously ignored information gets added to the theory or new theory gets written which claims to rewrite what we previously knew. And that’s not to say scientific inquiry is bad. Without it we wouldn’t have things like Airplanes or computers and complaining about computers while using them is jut silly.
The opposite of this is what Gene calls the ecology model which is that reality is a huge interconnected system more complex than any theory could explain and not static and composed of units, but constantly in motion. The third kind of theory Gene mentioned is what he called functional wholes, which isn’t the full breath of ecology but when organisms are interacting and shaping their environment, we can temporarily separate and study the relationship as it interacts with its environment and plug back into the ecological model as necessary. And you need all these ways of looking at the world to have a better understanding. See also the link I included to The 5 eyes in the Buddhist tradition, which is about seeing things from 5 different perspectives.
This leads to what I said earlier about magic and the difference between supernatural and supra-natural. As my elder described it: “”Supernatural” is outside of nature, in whole or in part. The Gods, for example, are both inside and outside nature. They are both immanent and transcendent. Magic, however, being a human skill is “supra-naturual”. It’s part of nature but not part of the ordinary course of nature and more circumscribed and bounded in its actions than natural events. Like the magnetism example: gravity works in all non-interfered instances, but magnetism only affects solid objects in certain specific circumstances. When it does, it’s more powerful than the “usual” forces in play (gravity) but has to be brought into action specifically while gravity is constantly in play.”
So the modern christian idea of God that is omniscient and omnipotent and created everything and is therefore outside of nature and created nature……. is not really a thing in traditional societies or pagan traditions. The 5 eyes link I included in the beginning is really useful here, especially the Heavenly eye and the Buddha eye. The gods can see with the Heavenly eye and some can see beyond that with the Buddha eye, but even then it’s not the same level as omniscient and omnipotent.
So when you use magic there are 3 sources of energy you can draw from and this ties in nicely to The 3 kinds of theories Gendlin mentioned. There is your personal energy and skill as a magician/sorcerer (roughly analogous to the unit model), there’s the energy in nature that you can draw from, which there is a lot of but very diffuse (ecology model) and not concentrated and the energy you can borrow by petitioning gods or various kinds of spirits, which is based on your relationship with the gods or spirits and is much more concentrated and based on a reciprocal relationship (which is analogues to the functional wholes Gendlin talked about). So there are 3 sources of energy you can draw from when using magic.
Now I hear you saying, “Wait using energy to create magic? Isn’t that some supernatural nonsense?” And no, not really. I mean, for some people who don’t know what they’re doing, it’s essentially that, but not when you’re using magic correctly. In Einstein’s theory of relativity, we have the formula that E = mc squared. So energy and mass follow the same formula and can be worked with as such when doing magic. Which is why in the Cherokee tradition, medicine and spells were called sacred formula. Magic works on the quantum or relativity level.
So yeah, the issue I have with saying magic is just a form of science not yet understood is like saying that Einsteinian relativity or quantum physics are the same thing as Newetonian mechanics because they’re both physics. Which, again, very incomplete. Magic and science both are bound by natural law and are limited by it, but they are not the same thing. There’s more I could say here, but This is already a short essay.
Books or other source material drawing information from: The night has a Naked Soul – Witchcraft and Sorcery among the Western Cherokee – Alan Kilpatrick
Western Apache Witchcraft, Wisdom sits in places – Keith basso
Experiencing and the creation of Meaning, A Process Model, Focusing,Focusing Oriented Therapy – Eugene Gendlin
Healing the Soul Wound – Edurado Duran
Hexing and Warding are two sides of the same coin – Irish Pagan School
The Cherokee Herbal, The Cherokee Full Circle, Meditations with the Cherokee, Medicine of The Cherokee – JT Garrett
Tir Nani Ogg for me!
They’re criticizing*
When you don’t believe in gods of course you are going to characterize that in terms of the gods you are being asked about. Dina and Dorothy might have other reasons to explain why they’re not Hindu or Wiccan, but it’s never been relevant to any conversation here.
Yes and no.
It’s quite common for atheists to characterize that in terms of the beliefs common in their subculture or in many specifically in the religious tradition they were raised in and broke away from. Not tied to what they’re being asked about, but to how they learned to think about god in the first place.
I’ve always said that the outright rejection of the concept that anything magic, supernatural or unexplained exists is, infact, really unscientific. Insomuch that Science begs to ask the question “This is highly unlikely to be real but I will not reject the concept of its existence if evidence of it existing crops up”.
Like it always bothers me when a show has like supernatural happenings happening regularly and the scientist character constantly tries to rationalize it and deny it’s existence rather than…figure it out. In a world of magic, science studies magic.
See, that’s the thing. When you study magic, it stops being magic. The entire concept relies on it not really existing. Magic that exists is called “physics”. Nothing real is “supernatural”, by definition. If it’s real, it’s simply natural.
If it exists, then it’s science. Science is the study and contextualizing if the world around us. If magic exists it is part of the world and therefore science. Something doesn’t cease tk be science just because we can’t explain or understand it or recreate it.
Does it though? Does it have to?
That’s one common take for fictional magic, but I don’t think it’s the only one. I don’t think it’s a necessary one.
You can argue it’s not supernatural by definition, but that doesn’t mean it’s physics or that it’s susceptible to study through scientific means. Consider magic that follows a paradigm more like art or craftsmanship than of science or engineering.
The last part I agree with – though the problem there tends to be that the scientist character has existed for their entire backstory in a world without magic, but also is well aware of plenty of debunked claims of the supernatural. We as the audience know they’re in a show with real supernatural stuff, but the characters don’t necessarily.
Obviously, this can be pushed too far.
For what little it’s worth, my take is that science and magic (real or imagined) are not necessarily incompatible, but are on different conceptual levels that require a different set of mental tools to navigate.
When you say supernatural, I hear outside the bounds of consensus reality, but that may not be what you actually mean.
♫ No ♫
It’s kind of unclear – did Becky leave the room between panel one and two?
I think definitely yes, she walks out
Probably.
Goddamit Willis. You are good at your job. Fuck.
While I wasn’t thrilled with Dina’s choice of words in yesterday’s strip, it still really sucks that she has to deal with Becky treating Joyce’s smooching of Dorothy as more of a faith shattering event than any of the other shit she had to deal with.
Even as someone who wouldn’t call himself a fan of Dina, she deserves better than that.
Not convinced that’s what pushed Becky to this point.
I think she was probably okay until Joyce didn’t get disowned by her fundamentalist father, much less shot at.
Yeah, Becky jumped in to keep any of the bad stuff that happened to her from happening to Joyce. Then Joyce infodumped it on him anyway. And nothing bad happened. Her worldview was that parents who find out their kids are gay always lash out, and now it was just her dad and her first girlfriend’s parents. She did all that for nothing, and now she feels disregarded. Rejection-Sensitive Dysphoria is a real bongo to deal with sometimes.
Oh Dina…
Becky you better not distance yourself from her or hurt her in any way. I get that you still had feelings for Joyce in some way, but your relationship with Dina was to far along and filled with to much love for you to pull a Ruth here.
I think the look she has in Panel 5 and 6 is her KNOWING how much this will fuck becky up, its not hurt on her part, its the continuation of the Fear she had already mentioned. She knew that Becky still held a flame for Joyce, it had not hindered their relationship so far, so I don’t think she is worrying about her own feelings right now.
Great, now Dina’s broken.
Consequences for the transgressors, not collateral damage to innocent hearts! Damn you, Willis!
This was the only outcome the second Joyce ran back to Dorothy to kiss her. Becky gets her heart broken because her suspicions about Dotty are absolutely true, and Dina is collateral damage because, as great of a girlfriend she is, she’s not Joyce.
Oh wow, I just flashed back to Walkyverse Dina finding out that Walky, despite having dated her for months, still holds a torch for Joyce. Is DoA Dina going to grab Becky and scream “Mine” as well?
You’re right. I’ve been watching this slow motion train wreck for awhile, and it’s not getting easier. I wish the goblins would come and take me away… right now.
Don’t say that again…
Can’t. The goblins took them away.
Unless Amber secretly has the Kiss Note I’m not sure she should be apologising.
Amber I don’t think Amber would use a Kiss Note if she had one, it sounds widely unethical. Perhaps, even more unethical than a Death Note.
She didn’t need a kiss note. She told Dorothy what she was doing and then she did it.
Amber wouldn’t be Amber unless she took the blame and responsibility of all misfortune on herself if it was tangentially related to her in any way.
Amber girl you’re letting your low self-worth cloud how you see things. Would it have happened at this exact moment without you? maybe not. but the whole thing is not on you
One secret upside to pretending that everything is your fault, is that it subtly reinforces the idea that you’re in control of everything around you. Accepting that bad things happen for reasons that aren’t your fault, is accepting that you can’t stop every bad thing from happening all the time; for someone who can’t accept the latter, it’s often less painful to just consistently self-inflict the former, as a cope.
How the fuck did she “make it happen”? She took one photo of Dorothy’s tits. Everyone’s seen those at this point, anyway.
Amber has the “Horn Note” it’s like the Death Note but every two names she writes in it get insatiably horny for each other and are drawn together by the universe.
Unfortunately while drunk one night she wrote down Dorothy and Joyce…and then the tits picture set everything into motion :C
Amber doesn’t need the “Horn Note.” She has Mike in her head.
She encouraged Dorothy to sent Joyce a titty pic. Truly the most villain move in the series.
The same way if you give a kitten standing on the ledge of a table a little nudge.
Fuck off with your shoving of cats and hitting of dogs. Animal-hating freak.
Ultimately, it doesn’t matter to what extent Amber made it happen, or even if she made it happen at all.
She intended to make it happen and it happened.
“I literally grabbed them both by the hair and mooshed their faces together while making kissy noises.”
Also ‘I made it happen’, not ‘Amazi-Girl made it happen’?
Yeah, iirc Amber was the one that was egging Dorothy on to send the boob photo
With the intent of making Walky available.
Oh no. The conses of her quences
i lovee dina and while i think her and becky work really well together i do think dina deserves to understand how much becky is still hung up on joyce & have the chance to process that . . .
do you guys remember like 10 years ago when dina said she knows she might be a rebound
which i dont think is true at this point but uh hm
yeaaaah
At this point, I do think becky would choose to be with dina over joyce, even if joyce had come to her before dorothy so becky wasn’t actively hurt by them.
That said, that doesn’t mean becky is over joyce, and that doesn’t mean dina isn’t still hurt by feeling like the rebound (regardless of how true) which is fun
Something, something, bart Simpson meme…
I am to sad right now to actually muster the effort to quote or even describe it.
Oh no the Ninth Doctor made the girls kiss, alt-text!
Amber, screaming, foaming at the mouth a little: “Why don’t you just FUCK?”
“Yeah, right, yeah, okay. You’ve got a point, ’cause I know what to do. I know what should happen. I know what you deserve. OSCULATE!”
I haven’t seen Dina this fearful in a long while.
….the realization in panel 5
Oh huh. I know I wasn’t alone in assuming that Dina had already seen the paper because of her earlier reception to Dorothy. I didn’t expect this to be how she found out
I’m pretty sure Amber and/or Amazi-Girl didn’t make Joyce and Dorothy kiss each other. They chose to do that themselves.
I’m pretty sure that Mike didn’t make Walky wear pajama jeans he bought him to class. He chose to do that himself.
I don’t think that Heisenberg would agree with this interpretation of oscular eventuation. There were numerous observers, not just Amber.
Observation is not causation. Manipulation of Dorothy to bring about a desired outcome is causation.
Amber manifested it.
Well yeah Becky you should’ve realized Dina was the wrong person (probably the worst person) to talk about this with before you walked in. Should’ve gone to Leslie, assuming she’s not in jail.
Becky is hardly in her right mind right now.
Just think, when this comic started we were only on the Fifth Doctor! And then a few years later, Willis became Dark Lord of the BBC and cancelled the show.
As some prince once said people sooner forget the death of their father than the loss of good coochie
Maybe a controversial opinion. But I get why Dina is concerned/upset. But at the same time I cant fault Becky. Shes having a feeling she cant really control, she recognizes that the feeling isnt one she should really vocalize. Shes not faulting Dina or anything just dealing with an emotion inside her own head.
yeah i imagine joyce and becky wouldn’t have worked out but it’s understandable that even with a current wonderful gf someone you been in love with your whole life actually is capable of being attracted to ur gender chooses soemeone else
Why would that be controversial? It’s clearly what is happening.
Understanding what’s being shown to you is offensive to some people.
Mm.
Man that Amber gal is truly just the worst. Going around spreading lesbianism and stuff /s
She’s amazing.
Say that again?
that again??
actually I’d argue that becky made it happen, who-knows-how-many years and strips ago, when she forced a very-securely sheltered christian Joyce to pick between her and god
Joyce didn’t have to do that to defend Dorothy from her parents. hell, that was just the opposite, she picked jesus over her parents. but becky put her in the situation of actively disobeying and defying literally every conceivable kind of authority; church, state, home, all of it. becky also put the idea into Joyce’s head that gay people weren’t some freaky sinful abstract that only exists in blue states and college campuses, they were just regular people you can find anywhere who are different, and hey turns out she’s known one all her life. there’s a metaphor about mustard seeds that applies here I think, if I was feeling flippant. and I do
becky’s problem, though, is that she expected her experiences to be universal. and honestly I can still remember Joyce going all awooga over the thought of brushing Sal’s hair so it’s not like becky was working with nothing here; but becky expected Joyce to feel exactly the same way, “your boy stuff was all talk” and so forth, and the fact that she was just a friend to Joyce reduced her to a sobbing wreck
which is by no means the worst thing to happen to the girl, even just in that story arc. but for all the challenges she’s had thrown at her, she’s not only come out the other side, she came out on top, with the kind of obnoxious gusto that wouldn’t let those two instances of “coming out” just now sneak past unnoticed. but god’s dead because she didn’t get one thing she wants. okay.
honestly, which part do you think stings more; that Joyce is indeed into other girls-just not her or that Joyce hooked up with the girl that becky has been actively trying to start shit with for the better part of her time in the comic? like not for nothin’ if there was a god that sounds like some shit he’d make happen just to get backy’s pride back in check
Joyce represented the last link to her religion.
To the entire life she knew and started losing just barely a year ago.
The two things are related. Becky doesn’t like Dorothy because on some level she recognizes Joyce’s attraction to her. I don’t think anyone made this happen, it was always going to happen provided Joyce got over her hangups about homosexuality.
I think something that a lot of people are overlooking is that fairly recently (okay, I don’t know how recent it was but it happened, okay?) is that when Becky saw that Dorothy was going through some shit, she told Dorothy that her trying to start shit was kind of an act, and that “I’ll always be on your side”. Unfortunately she didn’t know that the shit Dorothy was going through was her gay panic for Joyce.
So right now she’s not just reckoning with Joyce being into girls (but not her), it’s that Dorothy, someone who she sees as a friend, is good enough despite her saying many times she was not actually into girls either. So it feels like a betrayal from Dorothy on top of everything else.
Dina’s “Oh no, this is BAD” face is just perfect.
Indeed. 🙁 Lovely piece of artwork on Willis’s part. I can just see Dina mentally connecting the dots and then coming to the inescapable conclusion as to why Becky would be so upset about Joyce and Dorothy dating now, and what that must mean for her place in Becky’s heart. (Love often means that there may forever be a part of your partner’s heart that belongs to another. It doesn’t mean that your partner doesn’t love YOU, but the knowledge that somebody else still holds a part of their love can be very hurtful depending on the person.)
egads, the trash goblin has met her worst enemy, mess!
squint
No, Amber, you didn’t cause this.
Now I’m conflicted. On the one hand, we’ve already had two characters (Walky and Joe), who had every reason to be upset, react to the fallout in a surprisingly measured and reasonable way. To have a *third* character do the same would be kind of weird for a comic strip called “Dumbing of Age”.
On the other hand, if there’s one character in this strip that is prepared to tackle this situation in a mature and constructive way, that’s Dina. If *she* were to fall apart where Walky and Joe took it like champs, it’d be even weirder.
This is such a weird take
Is it?
Yes. Dina is a human being with feelings in a serious relationship.
?
I think you’re forgetting to take into account – it seems like Walky and Joe both kinda saw this coming. Dina very much did not.
That’s true, but only in the sense that she couldn’t have expected Joyce and Dorothy to get together. She has always been aware that Becky still had unresolved feelings for Joyce.
Oh, definitely. But she never expected that to become… quite this flavor of pertinent? I guess? Personally, I’m anticipating Dina being incredibly upset on Becky’s behalf. Potentially also on Joe’s; the two of them seem to have a friendly rapport. Whether she experiences any personal insecurities with regards to Becky’s unresolved feelings remains to be seen – I could see it going either way. I do think you’re right that Dina is grounded and emotionally mature enough to approach this constructively, to be clear – but she is also deeply emotionally invested in Becky’s mental well-being and happiness. Joe and Walky obviously also care about Joyce and Dorothy’s happiness, respectively, but hurt personal feelings aside, *they* are seeing the people they care about giddy-happy. Dina very much is not.
All of which is to say, I’ll be surprised if Dina falls apart, but I also won’t think it’s weird if it happens.
I don’t see anything weird about it.
So it’s weird because
Becky while she’s allowed to have complex emotions is still in one of the most stable relationships in the comic.
I’m hoping they dont break up. And while I had issue with how joyce and dotty got together I think overall its unfair for them to be upset about the fact they’re together… more how they got together and the wacky kind sorta cheating sure, but there’s def not really a reason to be upset at then because they’re together.
I’m worried becky and even dina may get really mad about this, becky because she justified the fact joyce wouldn’t be wkth her because she was “straight.” Dina over how it’s shaken becky and perhaps shaken their relationship.
Neither of which is joyce or Dorothy’s fault. Becky was coping with the rejection from joyce as “it’s not that she wouldn’t it’s thT she’s nkt attracted to women” and that’s a really not great way for her to had looked at it. Rather than just accepting her and joyce just being friends is the best for them she went more “well it can’t happen anyway so why worry about it.”
But she didn’t actually accept and move past her feelings because of it, because the idea that regardless of how she felt it could never happen she djdnt have to accept that joyce just doesn’t see her that way. It’s that she couldn’t now itsmclwar joyce just… isn’t interested romantically in becky, even tho that was always true.
It’s a trap I see alot of baby gays fall into, where they don’t take it as “they just dint see me this way” it they “CANT see me that way” which has enough of a difference to make you not have to accept it the same way. Its a little entitled, mostly just coping with heartbreak since alot of gay rejections come from the other just not being into the same sex.
It happened to me too. I was into a boy jn school, and I asked him out. He said he wasn’t interested in men.
Later he came out as bi so I decided to ask again, and he was more annoyed the 2nd time, which I get since he had already rejected me..the 2nd time hurt more, because it was just a “it’s not about who you’re attracted to. I’m just not into YOU.”
I’m rambling but the point is, Becky did not actually mentally address the rejection in a way that let’s her move on, she coped by saying it couldn’t happen, which made her woefully unprepared for dorothy and joyce getting together.
In fairness to you and Becky, it can be VERY hard to stop loving someone, especially if they haven’t actually done anything wrong to you except not be into you. It was like that with me and my first real love too. While she did like me, ultimately it turned out that she liked me more as a friend and confidante than as a lover (we did try dating, but the attraction was not as reciprocal from her side). So we parted ways, fairly amicably, and while time and distance has let me move on, there will forever be a part of my heart that remains with her, and there will always be that teeny little “What if it had worked?” thought at the back of my head wondering if things could have been different.
Every Friendfic Amber writes comes true
Ouch. This pains me a lot. Damn you, Willis
Holy shit, I don’t think I’ve ever seen such a strong expression on Dina.
The strip where Sarah points out that Becky still has feelings for Joyce and Dina is, ultimately, some flavor of rebound. And Dina says she knows. I’m having trouble finding it but I vaguely remember a strong :C face there?
I think you mean this one.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/02-that-perfect-girl/riddles/
Geez, every time Dina gets over one reason to hate Joyce, another comes up.
I like to think Dina is self-aware enough to not hate *Joyce* for this. *Joyce* did nothing wrong (wrt Becky, we can have conversations about what is and isn’t cheating but they would be entirely tangential to Joyce’s relationship with Becky)
honestly i’d kinda like if it WASN’T joyce being queer that made her doubt god. like, sure, that hurts a bit, but what if the motivation was something like:
– bad shit happened, becky got through it, becky believed something along the lines of “see this is proof god loves lesbians because of how i got through this”
– becky sees HOW MUCH BETTER IT COULD HAVE BEEN via joyce’s dad, who is from the same church as hers, being totally chill
– “oh this is what would have happened if god ACTUALLY loved lesbians, so he must not, so fuck religion”
which is not something dina would really understand, having never been religious herself.
You might still be right. Amber is the one laying out what she thinks is the reason for Becky possibly losing faith (I say “possibly” because it’s just as possible she’s angrier at god than she’s ever been but will recover). We haven’t actually heard from Becky on the subject.
OUCH
“I am afraid.” Poor Dina. She is a scientist and knows the law of closed systems – energy in equals energy out. Any trauma with enough energy to kill God in Becky’s life could be enough to destroy Becky in her life.
When I voted for more consequences I didn’t mean for everybody else in blast radius, Willis!
Still not consequences for the cheating, though!
Should have checked the fine print
“If Croesus goes to war, he will destroy a great empire.”
I’ve been waiting for the return of this storyline since the panel of Dina alone in her room while Becky was concerned about Joyce ages and ages ago. Poor Dina 🙁
She may have lost her religion, but the lessons in repression are still hanging on strong.
Alt text is possibly one of my favorite quotes from the Christopher Eccleston era of Doctor Who. Glad I’m not the only one who’s head it doesn’t live rent free in.
A cascade of consequences. Affecting just about everybody in the main cast. These two days will take months to run their course. Nice job Willis.
Sorry for the FNAF reference, but; “I was the first, I have seen everything”
“W-what? But I wanted to kiss Dorothy and Joyce before they did…”
I realize that blaming herself for everything is Amber’s fetish, but I really think she’s taking too much responsibility for what happened. I’d say that, given Joyce’s muted reaction to the boob pic, probably nothing would have come of it if Joe hadn’t seen it and taken the opportunity to force Dorothy to confront her feelings. At worst, Amber’s like the guy who shot Archduke Franz Ferdinand. She’s the reason it happened right now, but it would have happened soon anyway.
How can you possibly kink shame when her kink is feeling shame?
It’s a conundrum, all right.
Wouldn’t kink shaming someone who’s kink is feeling shame be a kindness.
Or at least a means of flirting.
Dina’s emotions don’t always show up on her face. That the revelation of Joyrothy (is that a good ship name? idk) caused this level of reaction is… ouch. I think I feel more for Dina than I do for Becky right now.
I’m probably in the minority but I like Doroyce. Makes me think of Deroys, the kinda alien walker robots from some of the EDF games.
Becky’s faith was shook when she found out that Amazi Girl was god, actually, and responsible for everything.
Wait, is Amber Haruhi Suzumiya but pervy?
No, she’s a trash goblin who craves mess (her words, not mine)
Dina, please go to your girlfriend and get to the bottom of this. You shouldn’t have to play second fiddle to Joyce: you’re soooooo much better than she is.
She really is
She’s really not.
Joyce doesn’t wear as much green. That makes her lesser.
ehhhh you wanted it to happen but you can’t really manipulate people from afar like that, amber.
they still have to make choices and they boarded this train a long time ago.
Dina already was mad at Joyce and her diagnosis now shes also into women openly. Dina is going to be very very concerned for her spot in Beckys life
I am so excited for a chance to see Dina be a hot mess for a bit.