Well now somebody will probably draw that. Totally unnecessary as I already have several possible visuals playing in my head, but also somebody please draw this.
Panel one is clearly Becky still masking and telling Dorothy what she thinks she wants to hear so she can, like, go away (“it’s ok! You don’t need to apologize for anything! Everything’s fine!”). Then Dorothy goes and makes it weird by getting super defensive about the clothes thing, and at that point Becky just can’t help herself. Mx. Willis can you please get rid of the obnoxious ad that completely covered the text box as I was typing this.
I hate the ads that do that. They should get out of the way or at least have a button to shrink them after they explode all over the content, doing no favors to the bottom line because I’m not looking to support any advertisers with ads that aggressively anti-reader.
It was for Becky. Since Dorothy is not clairvoyant, she didn’t know in advance that it would do nothing for Becky, so she thought it was worth taking a shot that it would help at least a little.
Also it’s her way of reacting to anyone she feels she may’ve wronged whether she meant to or not. (She’s done this a lot, with the strong implication she’s been doing this for a long time. Tho’ notarised is an extra step, I think?)
I disagree. The apology at no point considered what Becky needed. It was Dorothy trying to address her own feelings of guilt and shame.
If she apologized to WALKY and he responded like this, then you’d be correct, but Dorothy hasn’t wronged Becky. She has nothing to apologize to her for.
Regardless of whether Dorothy wronged Becky or not, she was still harmed by Dorothy’s actions and friends tend to apologise for that regardless of whether they actually are at fault
This is a woman who canonically sends handwritten thank you notes for every gift she receives. She clearly believes that handwritten letters are more sincere and respectful
Plus, carefully writing down your thoughtful apology in advance dramatically reduces the odds that you will fuck up in the heat of the moment and say the wrong thing.
Mind you, learning to speak without fucking up and saying the wrong thing is a kind of important skill for a politician to have, so I’m surprised Dorothy hasn’t worked on it obsessively for years
Yeah, there’s two aspects here. The form of the apology is obviously just wrong – a notarized letter of apology is just silly and isn’t going to impress anyone, much less Becky.
The impulse to apologize to someone who’s been hurt by something you did isn’t a bad one, even if what you did wasn’t wrong and you don’t regret doing it. “I’m sorry I hurt you” isn’t always the performative nonsense of “I apologize if you were offended”.
Dorothy is Clairvoyant. Either she knew that the letter would have a positive result.
Or she saw that it would enrage Becky while looking good in Joyce eyes.
But either way this is on Dorothy.
I don’t understand this argument. I really want to but this justification confuses me. It doesn’t take clairvoyance. Dorothy knows why Becky is upset and she knows an apology won’t fix what has upset her.
Astarial took the premise, one objectively incorrect that the apology was for Beck since Dorothy isn’t Clairvoyant.
But since Dorothy is one of many characters with supernormal powers, prophetic dreams, visions hunches etc she is Clairvoyant. Understanding destroys the mystery. Hoe does Dina teleport into banks?
The answer is , just because. Shut up, it’s just a comic.
The real issues become intentions and does Becky know it.
I didn’t see the text of the letter. You didn’t. That changes everything
This is I think, maybe my biggest frustration with this storyline and it’s taken me a while to figure out what it was, but so many things have been done for the sake of a joke, to give a strip a gag, and it’s been really tonally confusing.
Dorothy’s apology isn’t about her as a character or her motivations. It’s just what Willis thought would be a funny way to end a strip, and this clothes thing is the same.
I mean, it definitely is for the sake of a joke, it’s just that Willis tries their best to ensure the joke is consistent with where the plot is meant to go and what the character might do that would be funny. But yeah all but a few strips haven’t meant to be humorous in some way – that’s also why we got the Joyce Stealing Dorothy from Walky strip, and why Walky’s coping mechanism has been nuggets, why he was kicked out of bed by Billifer, and why Joyce has been unrepentantly oversharing about having sex with Dorothy. They’re all choices that haven’t sat right with at least part of the fan base, and they’re all choices that the other part of the fan base sees for what they are – attempts at levity to keep a really difficult storyline from getting too dramatic and tense.
I still maintain that a poorly placed one of these was why the laundry arc left such a bad taste in my mouth. I literally just needed Joyce to actually affirm she was okay with it without backpedaling in a final panel, because the backpedaling gave it coercion vibes. I forget which strip it was, but one of them would’ve been perfect for her to double down on the actual walk and that one had her freaking out again as the punchline (which was actually funny, but still.)
I agree more in the case of today’s clothing thing. But the apology letter was very in-character to the point that it was something I was waiting for and expecting. I guess you could say it being notarized was just for the joke, but that’s well within the bounds of the amount of belief I expect to suspend for a gag-a-day comic strip.
Yeah the tone of this whole story line is all over the place.
If its gag-a-day oh so wacky then fine things are goofy and we shouldn’t take it seriously
Except all those times we should take it seriously and people’s wording matters
These characters have serious interactions that would really impact their relationships going forward
Except for the times when we are in joke land and the interaction is meant to not be taken seriously
In universe time moves way slower than real life time. Sometimes we are supposed to feel the weight of reading about a plotline for years, sometimes its thrown in our face that in universe its only been a couple weeks and why would we care about reading time?
Just keeps flipping flopping from “nah its all a joke dont take it serious it was just for the gag” and “these are significant characters whose actions will have impact on each other”
It was for Dorothy. Dorothy thought it was for Becky but she is attrocious at genuine remorse. Her guilt always seems kind of performative, like she THINKS she should prostrate herself, but never really thinks through that it might not be what the other person needs. It sure as hell isn’t what Becky needs, but frankly she owes Walky — and Joe — an apology more.
Dorothy does not need to have remorse for Becky, the prioiritisation of Becky has consistently hit as insane for me throughout this plot. Becky was happy with Dina, she staked no real claim on Joyce, Dorothy is not BFFs with Becky and owes her nothing for dating Joyce.
Yes, Dorothy should try to be better to Walky, and at least *thank* Joe for being so big about the situation, and apologise for not having treated him better when he was literally trying to open the door for her and Joyce. But nobody needs a notarised apology letter, Dorothy is just wracked with guilt over the whole situation, especially for Becky who has already been through so much.
Dorothy’s got a drop of Bojack Horseman in her and that’s why I love her as a character, because she’s like 85% performances, 10% desperately trying to fix that, and 5% actually remorseful when she messes up/feels uncomfortable. She thinks it’s the other way around, but the Halloween Party was a pretty egregious show of how she kind of seems to need the attention on her. Not because she’s awesome, but because she needs a medal for being mature and understanding and apologetic.
Mind you, she’ll never be remotely near as bad as him, but like… this apology was to make Dorothy feel better and no other reason. And I’m one of the peeps fully in agreement that Dorothy shouldn’t have to apologize for this (if anything Joyce should. Not for getting with Dorothy, but the kinda weird rubbing it in the wound that happened)
I imagine she’ll develop out of it. Maybe if Walky crashes out on her. That’d be nice.
(Now that I think about it, it feels like every major Dorothy moment has been trying to take charge in situations where nobody needs to take charge. It’s consistently resulted in bad outcomes for everyone else, the only exception being when kidnapped and *maybe* the protest I think. I’m unsure if Amber would’ve still gotten stabbed had Dorothy and Joyce just listened to her; that’s dependent on whether it was because she was at the thing longer, giving someone more incentive to follow her or if she was tired or what. Regardless, we’ve seen in her PoliSci class that nobody is actually talking about the protest itself.)
This would be a good take if Dorothy was handing an apology to Walky or Joe or I guess Raidah or Asma. Weird take wrt Becky, though because D&J haven’t done anything wrong to her. Her hurt feelings are an unfortunate and unavoidable side effect of their being together that isn’t anyone’s fault. I don’t necessarily *blame* Becky for not being ready to be gracious about Dorothy’s attempt to express sympathy over that, but to cheer her for that is weird.
Sympathy would be “Hey I know you are hurting over this. But Joyce and I are going to keep being together because we have genuine feelings for each other. Is there anything we can do to lessen the discomfort for you? Would you like more space? How can we best do that while sharing a room?”
An apology isnt sympathy, ita just Dorothy wanting someone to say “no you are in the clear”
I cringe for this Dorothy behavior because I’ve done this Dorothy behavior. It’s avoidance of a scary high tension space she doesn’t know how to navigate. Unfortunately it’s also tremendously disrespectful.
A Dorothy special: self-serving, performative, zero real respect, all so utterly sincerely meant which means no one has ever confronted her about the shittiness of any of it.
Gotta say I approve. Becky was told she couldn’t have what she wanted and has decided to just take it! Very leadership of her! A+! No notes! Dorothy could learn from her example.
I think what a lot of folks aren’t getting about this exchange is that the question isn’t “Is Dorothy’s apology sincere?” We know it is because we just saw her agonize over her actions in class. The real question right now is “Does Dorothy’s apology consider the needs of the harmed person, or is it primarily for exonerating herself?” *That’s* why it feels so hollow. You can see her teeing up to make this exact same mistake with Walky in the last storyline before Joyce HAHAHAHA’d her way outta there.
As others have said, (S/O Throwatron who swayed me on this last strip) Dorothy’s smart enough to understand she didn’t technically do anything wrong to Becky, but because of Becky’s issues she’s become collateral damage in the wake of Dorothy and Joyce’s actions. Saying “this is Becky’s problem to solve within herself” may be true, but it can’t stop the voice in Dorothy’s head screaming at her to “fix this!” So now we’re stuck at the impasse of “Dorothy can’t leave Becky alone out of fear she’ll hurt herself” and “Dorothy’s part in all of this means she *can’t* solve it and she should probably give Becky some space.”
Dorothy can’t leave Becky alone. Because this is where she literally lives and her clothes are here. It’s only an impasse because it’s written that way.
It’s not true that the comic isn’t complete without a homeless lesbian
Dorothy making a performative apology that only really serves to assuage her own feelings is a) phenomenally in-character, b) ultimately mostly harmless, and c) the most interested I’ve been in dissecting a character’s motivations literally all year. It’s aflaw that’s symptomatic of Dorothy’s greater tendency to simultaneously think she knows better than others what they need and to be kinda selfish.
What I still don’t understand is why the apology was argued to be appropriate when it didn’t help Becky and Dorothy knew that? Even if you have sincere intentions if you know the apology is unwanted and ineffective aren’t you just forcing your sense of guilt onto someone else? I think Becky knows she doesn’t deserve an apology because of her own flaws in her possessive unrequited love for Joyce, so to me Dorothy’s apology was at minimum annoying if not insulting and Dorothy is very aware of that.
The big one is that I have been and will continue to be vocal about calling out bad writing when I see it (a hint that i actually think this is good writing is that I’m being 100% Watsonian rather than Doylist right now). You couple that with the uptick in criticism as a whole that’s been leveled at DoA in the past year and I think there are a lot of folks out there who see my takes and immediately go “Rogue 7! How is he wrong!” And to be fair I’ve made the occasional absolutely stupid take here once or twice.
I think the other is folks assuming that because this apology was performative, it wasn’t sincere. And it was absolutely sincere. Dotty doesn’t have the ability to be anything but sincere. So I think folks thought I was accusing Dotty of being manipulative or conniving when really she’s just being a dumbass.
Considering how little time it’s been in-comic since Becky found out about Doyce, I doubt Becky is actually fine with this. But I still think Dorothy should be trying to apologize to Walky and Joe more than Becky at this point.
I think she had three goals: get some clothes so she doesn’t have to keep wearing Joyce’s since those were the only clean ones available, check in on Becky, and take a punch if necessary. It’s her fault more or less that Joyce had an epiphany without telling her one lesbian friend first.
I think Dorothy is actually Naked because her clothes are in here.
I can’t wait till tomorrow when Becky strips off her coat while Dina or Joyce walk in
. because half the comments will be accusing Becky of SA. A third slut shaming Dorothy for breaking Dinas heart.
It’s a bit different in a contrived circumstance like they’re naked under their coat and you didn’t know that.
We wouldn’t call it sexual assault if Becky pulled her coat and, as is most likely, she was wearing one of Joyce’s sweater vests. Still not cool, but not sexual.
I am amused though by the idea that Dorothy’s naked under that coat – especially since she’s been wearing it all day, out jogging and shopping and to class. She’s kept it zipped up the whole time too.
NGPZ, I know you’re taking a hard-earned break right now to focus on your health.
If you do peruse the comments, though, I saw this New Yorker article today on folks trying to leave the USA, and thought of you:
I hope folks see what I meant about the apology being performative. Note here how it’s contrasted with Dorothy literally wearing Joyce’s clothes, something that undoubtely feels like salt in the wound to Becky.
Legit I think this is the best writing DoA has had in a long time, 10/10 no notes.
Yes, Dorothy’s notarized apology letter is performative. It’s a very Dorothy action and always has been. If Becky find that distasteful she could hand the letter back and say ‘I don’t need your letter, you’re fine’. But instead she says ‘You’re fine’ but aggressively crumples the letter and throws it away. Very mixed messages.
Yeah. Dorothy’s apology to Asma was poor because Asma had no reason to understand that this is just Dorothy’s bizarre coping mechanism for failing to live up to the impossible standards she has for herself. Becky, on the hand, does know Dorothy well enough to at least understand that this bonkers gesture is being made in good faith.
Dorothy/Joyce harmed Becky by getting together. They didnt wrong her, they shouldn’t have avoided getting together because of Becky, but its undeniable that them getting together did cause Becky distress as collateral damage.
If she was wanting to account for the harm. The best thing for Dorothy to do would have been to check on Becky, acknowledge that she’s hurting and ask how they can help. Things like “how can we give each other space while sharing a room?” Or “would it help if we changed some of our walking to class routines?”
Presenting it as an apology is inherently asking forgiveness for having wronged someone. Since Dorothy has no intention of stopping being with Joyce or in anyway undoing/changing the action that hurt Becky that just rings hollow. Its like she was just looking for Becky to go “no its fine I hereby release you of all guilt”
Disagree. I once sent a card after a death saying “Sorry for your loss”. It neither accepts culpability or responsibility for the death, nor am I implying that they need to be feeling loss at the death. They could be delighted.
Becky feels hurt at the pairing. Dorothy can acknowledge the hurt and that’s fine. Dina is right when she tells Becky it’s her problem.
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dorothy’s desperately trying to avoid revealing her shibari sweatervest
Well now somebody will probably draw that. Totally unnecessary as I already have several possible visuals playing in my head, but also somebody please draw this.
“It’s sweater-vests all the way down…” xD
If Joyce has to be informed what shibari is, the ideal format has been found to be Twenty Questions (but with unlimited questions).
A shibari sweater would basically macrame with carefully placed knots over the naughty bits.
Or with large gaps over the naughty bits, depending.
So, my 6th grade arts and crafts class plant hanger wasn’t a waste of time?
“Take it off, or I’ll rip it off!”
“I’d like to see you try!”
And that’s how this story gets a sordid new twist.
It’s okay, my brain went there too
i need becky and dorothy to make out and have angry sex so bad
The whole cast just needs to fuck it out at this point.
“That wasn’t Tear Gas the National Guard was firing, it was FUCK GAS!”
“What’s a fuckass?”
you would know!
What about Dina? She does have a prior claim on Becky. unless you want a Joyce, Becky, Dina, and Dorothy foursome.
No, but I’ve heard worse suggestions.
NGL, that would be an awesome (drama-wide) twist.
Don’t trust sudden requests to strip.
yeah, kind of a step too far. We can only handle so much cheating in one comic.
I think the Paladins would literally explode.
unless it’s a polycule; in which case just throw them into the fuck pile.
Hmm, maybe Becky really should have started that apology portfolio.
Also, it’s cold in here, Becky! Probably because of that gas leak causing the heat not to work.
Campfire might help
Probably against dorm rules…
I would advise against the use of fire during a gas leak
She isn’t wearing Joyce’s clothing under that coat. Or, any for that matter.
That’s what I was thinking.
Why would she go to her classes naked? In January?
Panel one is clearly Becky still masking and telling Dorothy what she thinks she wants to hear so she can, like, go away (“it’s ok! You don’t need to apologize for anything! Everything’s fine!”). Then Dorothy goes and makes it weird by getting super defensive about the clothes thing, and at that point Becky just can’t help herself. Mx. Willis can you please get rid of the obnoxious ad that completely covered the text box as I was typing this.
Oh has that happened to you too? Re: ad. It’s a Hiveworks issue I suppose but it made the comic unreadable the other day.
I hate the ads that do that. They should get out of the way or at least have a button to shrink them after they explode all over the content, doing no favors to the bottom line because I’m not looking to support any advertisers with ads that aggressively anti-reader.
Panel 5 is backmasking
It says On
Also Dorothy’s apology did nothing for Becky so I have to ask again what was it for? Just for the sake of it? Because that means it was for Dorothy.
It was for Becky. Since Dorothy is not clairvoyant, she didn’t know in advance that it would do nothing for Becky, so she thought it was worth taking a shot that it would help at least a little.
Also it’s her way of reacting to anyone she feels she may’ve wronged whether she meant to or not. (She’s done this a lot, with the strong implication she’s been doing this for a long time. Tho’ notarised is an extra step, I think?)
I disagree. The apology at no point considered what Becky needed. It was Dorothy trying to address her own feelings of guilt and shame.
If she apologized to WALKY and he responded like this, then you’d be correct, but Dorothy hasn’t wronged Becky. She has nothing to apologize to her for.
Regardless of whether Dorothy wronged Becky or not, she was still harmed by Dorothy’s actions and friends tend to apologise for that regardless of whether they actually are at fault
Why should she. What Becky needs isn’t Dorothy job. That’s been Joyce and Dina.
This is why Becky needs to move in with Robin.
Lumino, If she apologized to Walky and got the same response, a demand to remove clothing …
What were we talking about again?
Why would Dorothy think Becky would want a written, notarised apology instead of something verbal anyway?
This is a woman who canonically sends handwritten thank you notes for every gift she receives. She clearly believes that handwritten letters are more sincere and respectful
Yea but. Like. Know your audience.
Plus, carefully writing down your thoughtful apology in advance dramatically reduces the odds that you will fuck up in the heat of the moment and say the wrong thing.
Mind you, learning to speak without fucking up and saying the wrong thing is a kind of important skill for a politician to have, so I’m surprised Dorothy hasn’t worked on it obsessively for years
Which makes the ritual written apology for the benefit of Dorothy, and Becky is just a prop in it.
Yeah, there’s two aspects here. The form of the apology is obviously just wrong – a notarized letter of apology is just silly and isn’t going to impress anyone, much less Becky.
The impulse to apologize to someone who’s been hurt by something you did isn’t a bad one, even if what you did wasn’t wrong and you don’t regret doing it. “I’m sorry I hurt you” isn’t always the performative nonsense of “I apologize if you were offended”.
Dorothy is Clairvoyant. Either she knew that the letter would have a positive result.
Or she saw that it would enrage Becky while looking good in Joyce eyes.
But either way this is on Dorothy.
I don’t understand this argument. I really want to but this justification confuses me. It doesn’t take clairvoyance. Dorothy knows why Becky is upset and she knows an apology won’t fix what has upset her.
Astarial took the premise, one objectively incorrect that the apology was for Beck since Dorothy isn’t Clairvoyant.
But since Dorothy is one of many characters with supernormal powers, prophetic dreams, visions hunches etc she is Clairvoyant. Understanding destroys the mystery. Hoe does Dina teleport into banks?
The answer is , just because. Shut up, it’s just a comic.
The real issues become intentions and does Becky know it.
I didn’t see the text of the letter. You didn’t. That changes everything
I am pretty sure, based on the indent that Sirksome was responding to Astarial…
Obv
100% for Dorothy.
It was for the sake of a joke.
This is I think, maybe my biggest frustration with this storyline and it’s taken me a while to figure out what it was, but so many things have been done for the sake of a joke, to give a strip a gag, and it’s been really tonally confusing.
Dorothy’s apology isn’t about her as a character or her motivations. It’s just what Willis thought would be a funny way to end a strip, and this clothes thing is the same.
I feel like both punchlines are pretty in-character?
Also, feels a little quick on the draw to say it’s just for the sake of a joke when the scene isn’t even over yet.
I mean, it definitely is for the sake of a joke, it’s just that Willis tries their best to ensure the joke is consistent with where the plot is meant to go and what the character might do that would be funny. But yeah all but a few strips haven’t meant to be humorous in some way – that’s also why we got the Joyce Stealing Dorothy from Walky strip, and why Walky’s coping mechanism has been nuggets, why he was kicked out of bed by Billifer, and why Joyce has been unrepentantly oversharing about having sex with Dorothy. They’re all choices that haven’t sat right with at least part of the fan base, and they’re all choices that the other part of the fan base sees for what they are – attempts at levity to keep a really difficult storyline from getting too dramatic and tense.
a gag-a-day strip will gag each day, after all
I still maintain that a poorly placed one of these was why the laundry arc left such a bad taste in my mouth. I literally just needed Joyce to actually affirm she was okay with it without backpedaling in a final panel, because the backpedaling gave it coercion vibes. I forget which strip it was, but one of them would’ve been perfect for her to double down on the actual walk and that one had her freaking out again as the punchline (which was actually funny, but still.)
I agree more in the case of today’s clothing thing. But the apology letter was very in-character to the point that it was something I was waiting for and expecting. I guess you could say it being notarized was just for the joke, but that’s well within the bounds of the amount of belief I expect to suspend for a gag-a-day comic strip.
Yeah the tone of this whole story line is all over the place.
If its gag-a-day oh so wacky then fine things are goofy and we shouldn’t take it seriously
Except all those times we should take it seriously and people’s wording matters
These characters have serious interactions that would really impact their relationships going forward
Except for the times when we are in joke land and the interaction is meant to not be taken seriously
In universe time moves way slower than real life time. Sometimes we are supposed to feel the weight of reading about a plotline for years, sometimes its thrown in our face that in universe its only been a couple weeks and why would we care about reading time?
Just keeps flipping flopping from “nah its all a joke dont take it serious it was just for the gag” and “these are significant characters whose actions will have impact on each other”
It was for Dorothy. Dorothy thought it was for Becky but she is attrocious at genuine remorse. Her guilt always seems kind of performative, like she THINKS she should prostrate herself, but never really thinks through that it might not be what the other person needs. It sure as hell isn’t what Becky needs, but frankly she owes Walky — and Joe — an apology more.
Dorothy does not need to have remorse for Becky, the prioiritisation of Becky has consistently hit as insane for me throughout this plot. Becky was happy with Dina, she staked no real claim on Joyce, Dorothy is not BFFs with Becky and owes her nothing for dating Joyce.
Yes, Dorothy should try to be better to Walky, and at least *thank* Joe for being so big about the situation, and apologise for not having treated him better when he was literally trying to open the door for her and Joyce. But nobody needs a notarised apology letter, Dorothy is just wracked with guilt over the whole situation, especially for Becky who has already been through so much.
Dorothy’s got a drop of Bojack Horseman in her and that’s why I love her as a character, because she’s like 85% performances, 10% desperately trying to fix that, and 5% actually remorseful when she messes up/feels uncomfortable. She thinks it’s the other way around, but the Halloween Party was a pretty egregious show of how she kind of seems to need the attention on her. Not because she’s awesome, but because she needs a medal for being mature and understanding and apologetic.
Mind you, she’ll never be remotely near as bad as him, but like… this apology was to make Dorothy feel better and no other reason. And I’m one of the peeps fully in agreement that Dorothy shouldn’t have to apologize for this (if anything Joyce should. Not for getting with Dorothy, but the kinda weird rubbing it in the wound that happened)
I imagine she’ll develop out of it. Maybe if Walky crashes out on her. That’d be nice.
(Now that I think about it, it feels like every major Dorothy moment has been trying to take charge in situations where nobody needs to take charge. It’s consistently resulted in bad outcomes for everyone else, the only exception being when kidnapped and *maybe* the protest I think. I’m unsure if Amber would’ve still gotten stabbed had Dorothy and Joyce just listened to her; that’s dependent on whether it was because she was at the thing longer, giving someone more incentive to follow her or if she was tired or what. Regardless, we’ve seen in her PoliSci class that nobody is actually talking about the protest itself.)
As I said last strip, going through all the paperwork and notary shit is the clue that the apology is for Dorothy’s sake.
Hey, cold weather dressing is ALL about multiple layers…
Multiple laying is what the clothes are there to prevent…
Proud of Becky to not even glance at or acknowledge the letter like it wss going to help how bad the situation is.
Folding/crumpling it up and tossing it away like the worthless thing it is.
That’s just because she’s a slob. She throws everything on the floor.
This would be a good take if Dorothy was handing an apology to Walky or Joe or I guess Raidah or Asma. Weird take wrt Becky, though because D&J haven’t done anything wrong to her. Her hurt feelings are an unfortunate and unavoidable side effect of their being together that isn’t anyone’s fault. I don’t necessarily *blame* Becky for not being ready to be gracious about Dorothy’s attempt to express sympathy over that, but to cheer her for that is weird.
She didnt express sympathy.
Sympathy would be “Hey I know you are hurting over this. But Joyce and I are going to keep being together because we have genuine feelings for each other. Is there anything we can do to lessen the discomfort for you? Would you like more space? How can we best do that while sharing a room?”
An apology isnt sympathy, ita just Dorothy wanting someone to say “no you are in the clear”
Back to calling her Dotty, huh.
But now she means it.
Dorothy what was the point of trying to lie? Just be honest about this shit. I think Becky would respect that even if she doesn’t like it.
I cringe for this Dorothy behavior because I’ve done this Dorothy behavior. It’s avoidance of a scary high tension space she doesn’t know how to navigate. Unfortunately it’s also tremendously disrespectful.
A Dorothy special: self-serving, performative, zero real respect, all so utterly sincerely meant which means no one has ever confronted her about the shittiness of any of it.
She is a mess and I love her.
Nothing more substantive to say than that tonight, but it seemed worth saying anyway!
Not sure which one you’re talking about, but I guess it’s pretty applicable either way.
I meant Dorothy in this instance but you know what, Becky too, for sure.
Those words describe half the cast, for me.
(The other half, of course, are “he is a mess and I love him,” or “they are a mess and I love them”)
Unfortunately Becky can’t be part of the polycule, she can only name two of the Beatles
(Also, Mega Man 12? Holy shit what?)
(Mega man 11 complex part 2) (Ringo Paul Jon and Ron)
No wonder Dorothy is so on edge.
Alternate version of the last panel with that one meme template
And that’s how, ironically, Becky got to see her crush’s girlfriend naked.
kissin’, and cuddlin’, and wearin’ each other’s clothes.
Actually in that order, I believe.
October 2026? Walky still not talking to Joyce? Oh wait, this is like, just tomorrow for them.
Looks like for my birthday next year I’m getting some enemies-who-are-married-in-the-other-universe sexual tension.
Gotta say I approve. Becky was told she couldn’t have what she wanted and has decided to just take it! Very leadership of her! A+! No notes! Dorothy could learn from her example.
..Wearing next to Nothing
given becky’s usual level of self-entitlement re: joyce, it’s a wonder she can’t determine if dorothy has her clothes on by smell alone
I think what a lot of folks aren’t getting about this exchange is that the question isn’t “Is Dorothy’s apology sincere?” We know it is because we just saw her agonize over her actions in class. The real question right now is “Does Dorothy’s apology consider the needs of the harmed person, or is it primarily for exonerating herself?” *That’s* why it feels so hollow. You can see her teeing up to make this exact same mistake with Walky in the last storyline before Joyce HAHAHAHA’d her way outta there.
Why is that the question?
The harmed person is Amber
Then Dina, Walky, and Joe.
As others have said, (S/O Throwatron who swayed me on this last strip) Dorothy’s smart enough to understand she didn’t technically do anything wrong to Becky, but because of Becky’s issues she’s become collateral damage in the wake of Dorothy and Joyce’s actions. Saying “this is Becky’s problem to solve within herself” may be true, but it can’t stop the voice in Dorothy’s head screaming at her to “fix this!” So now we’re stuck at the impasse of “Dorothy can’t leave Becky alone out of fear she’ll hurt herself” and “Dorothy’s part in all of this means she *can’t* solve it and she should probably give Becky some space.”
Dorothy can’t leave Becky alone. Because this is where she literally lives and her clothes are here. It’s only an impasse because it’s written that way.
It’s not true that the comic isn’t complete without a homeless lesbian
Are you a mineral?
Agreed!
Dorothy making a performative apology that only really serves to assuage her own feelings is a) phenomenally in-character, b) ultimately mostly harmless, and c) the most interested I’ve been in dissecting a character’s motivations literally all year. It’s aflaw that’s symptomatic of Dorothy’s greater tendency to simultaneously think she knows better than others what they need and to be kinda selfish.
What I still don’t understand is why the apology was argued to be appropriate when it didn’t help Becky and Dorothy knew that? Even if you have sincere intentions if you know the apology is unwanted and ineffective aren’t you just forcing your sense of guilt onto someone else? I think Becky knows she doesn’t deserve an apology because of her own flaws in her possessive unrequited love for Joyce, so to me Dorothy’s apology was at minimum annoying if not insulting and Dorothy is very aware of that.
I think there’s a few reasons.
The big one is that I have been and will continue to be vocal about calling out bad writing when I see it (a hint that i actually think this is good writing is that I’m being 100% Watsonian rather than Doylist right now). You couple that with the uptick in criticism as a whole that’s been leveled at DoA in the past year and I think there are a lot of folks out there who see my takes and immediately go “Rogue 7! How is he wrong!” And to be fair I’ve made the occasional absolutely stupid take here once or twice.
I think the other is folks assuming that because this apology was performative, it wasn’t sincere. And it was absolutely sincere. Dotty doesn’t have the ability to be anything but sincere. So I think folks thought I was accusing Dotty of being manipulative or conniving when really she’s just being a dumbass.
Considering how little time it’s been in-comic since Becky found out about Doyce, I doubt Becky is actually fine with this. But I still think Dorothy should be trying to apologize to Walky and Joe more than Becky at this point.
I think she had three goals: get some clothes so she doesn’t have to keep wearing Joyce’s since those were the only clean ones available, check in on Becky, and take a punch if necessary. It’s her fault more or less that Joyce had an epiphany without telling her one lesbian friend first.
If she’s wearing her sweater vest then we’ve reached critical mass
It’s about time Dorothy stood up to Becky. I hope a physical fight breaks out.
For the comments section.
You guys are getting dull.
Becky is being like:
“This message will auto-destroy in 5 seconds”
Don’t worry, she’s always on duty!
Yea now reverse genders and see if that sound funny. Wait a minute
::laugh track, sitcom jingle::
Damn, it took her three in-story hours to respond, and Becky just stood there patiently. It’s canon.
Oh no…. Becky radiates bad juju on that first panel. :/
[Citation needed]
Honestly, Dotty picking one specific denial that can be very easily disproven tells me she just may have a future in politics after all.
I think Dorothy is actually Naked because her clothes are in here.
I can’t wait till tomorrow when Becky strips off her coat while Dina or Joyce walk in
. because half the comments will be accusing Becky of SA. A third slut shaming Dorothy for breaking Dinas heart.
I mean, if you forcefully strip someone who doesn’t want you strip them, it’s pretty hard to call that anything OTHER than sexual assault.
It’s a bit different in a contrived circumstance like they’re naked under their coat and you didn’t know that.
We wouldn’t call it sexual assault if Becky pulled her coat and, as is most likely, she was wearing one of Joyce’s sweater vests. Still not cool, but not sexual.
I am amused though by the idea that Dorothy’s naked under that coat – especially since she’s been wearing it all day, out jogging and shopping and to class. She’s kept it zipped up the whole time too.
Well, if you’re shopping for clothes, going in naked saves time.
Yes. And cuddle with Becky too now.
Patreon ‘teaser’ frame is heartbreaking…..
“Okay, then, take off your pants”
NGPZ, I know you’re taking a hard-earned break right now to focus on your health.
If you do peruse the comments, though, I saw this New Yorker article today on folks trying to leave the USA, and thought of you:
https://archive.is/JOmN3
Take good care of YOU.
Could have had better chance of working if Becky had given herself a Joyce-y haircut instead.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2022/comic/book-12/05-this-was-halloween/childhoodhome/
Found this and I think it is a good example of how Becky feels about Joyce.
Oop, another topical one:
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2022/comic/book-13/01-bring-me-to-life-drawing/sporadically/
Let’s be fair here, they’ve been cuddling and wearing each other’s clothes since September. It’s the kissing that’s new.
pleaseeee communicate pleaseee please please please please communication! go! go! communication! please?
I hope folks see what I meant about the apology being performative. Note here how it’s contrasted with Dorothy literally wearing Joyce’s clothes, something that undoubtely feels like salt in the wound to Becky.
Legit I think this is the best writing DoA has had in a long time, 10/10 no notes.
Yes, Dorothy’s notarized apology letter is performative. It’s a very Dorothy action and always has been. If Becky find that distasteful she could hand the letter back and say ‘I don’t need your letter, you’re fine’. But instead she says ‘You’re fine’ but aggressively crumples the letter and throws it away. Very mixed messages.
Yeah. Dorothy’s apology to Asma was poor because Asma had no reason to understand that this is just Dorothy’s bizarre coping mechanism for failing to live up to the impossible standards she has for herself. Becky, on the hand, does know Dorothy well enough to at least understand that this bonkers gesture is being made in good faith.
Dorothy/Joyce harmed Becky by getting together. They didnt wrong her, they shouldn’t have avoided getting together because of Becky, but its undeniable that them getting together did cause Becky distress as collateral damage.
If she was wanting to account for the harm. The best thing for Dorothy to do would have been to check on Becky, acknowledge that she’s hurting and ask how they can help. Things like “how can we give each other space while sharing a room?” Or “would it help if we changed some of our walking to class routines?”
Presenting it as an apology is inherently asking forgiveness for having wronged someone. Since Dorothy has no intention of stopping being with Joyce or in anyway undoing/changing the action that hurt Becky that just rings hollow. Its like she was just looking for Becky to go “no its fine I hereby release you of all guilt”
Disagree. I once sent a card after a death saying “Sorry for your loss”. It neither accepts culpability or responsibility for the death, nor am I implying that they need to be feeling loss at the death. They could be delighted.
Becky feels hurt at the pairing. Dorothy can acknowledge the hurt and that’s fine. Dina is right when she tells Becky it’s her problem.