Yeah, I would totally believe that Dorothy is herself a notary, AND that even if she isn’t she would know that notaries can’t notarize their own signature.
When we were in the adoption process, there was one paper that required that a second notary notarize the first notary’s signature.
I believe that many notaries have a friend who is a notary, with whom they can exchange notarization without expending a fee.
That sequence of “Becky’s Facial Expression” that seems to me to be going from “Fuck, why are YOU here” to “that’d be endearingly Dotty of you if this whole thing weren’t so fucked up” is pure art, though.
I’m someone with a love-hate relationship with Dorothy and I’m 100% in agreement. If anything, apologizing to Becky is like salt in the wound right now. I’d bet top dollar Becky is gonna be “it’s okay Dot, everything is fine and dandy, no apologies necessary,” mask on, and she won’t even notice it’s happening.
Plus, does she *actually know* what she’s apologizing for, or is she just assuming?
Yeah as always it feels like this “apology” is more about assuaging Dorothy’s guilty conscience than it is actually making amends for whatever harm she has caused to Becky – and really, she hasn’t done anything *wrong* there. These are complex emotions Becky is going through, and they’re really no one’s fault. What Becky needs is space from Joyce and Dorothy, professional help in processing and resolving her feelings, and other things which do not take the form of a written apology from someone who didn’t actually do anything wrong (to Becky). Perhaps Dorothy could expend this energy writing an apology letter to Walky for cheating on him instead?
Yeah, I was gonna say there’s someone who actually could use an apology right now, and Becky ain’t it! But at the same time, I don’t expect that to happen for a while. I think (read: hope) Walky is going to steep in the juices he’s in until he’s ready to blow up, and Dorothy is the most likely target.
He was actually a bit sharp with Joyce earlier, which was a nice sign, but actually getting angry with Dorothy would be a much bigger deal, since with Joyce it can just be read as part of their usual back and forth.
I don’t want Becky to blow up on Dorothy, but I do want her to snub Dorothy because Becky playfully ribbing people is part of how she shows affection and I really want to see her actually with a roommate she dislikes (for a bit, anyways).
There’s probably a “24-Hour Notary Store” near campus (actually many old Mail Boxes, Etc stores used to have notaries, so my snide retort wasn’t toooo far off the mark….well maybe it was…..sorry).
Formal Letter of Apology For Falling In Love With Your Best Friend… I’m pretty sure they have those pre-printed on the shelves, right above Standard Apartment Rental Agreement and just next to Application for License to Tell Fart Jokes
I’m sure IU Credit Union has at least one branch office on campus. Banks and credit unions usually have several notaries on staff so there’s always one available.
There’s probably an on campus bank branch. A bank is going to have a notary. Depending on the university department, there’s probably a secretary who’s a notary.
I only really know about notaries from the fact that people keep calling the library I work at looking for one, and we have to tell them that they need to go to Town Hall, where they have a notary available four hours a day, three days a week, who requires an appointment made in advance. So I assumed Dorothy would have had to jump through lots of hoops.
This is a “varies state by state and town by town” thing in my experience — every place I’ve lived where I needed a notary, I could just drop in on one (usually either a lawyer’s office or someone who just had a shingle out) except when I was in a major city, for which I needed an appointment but it was still a random guy in a legal office.
I’m gonna go out on a limb and say that the notary is Galasso. Becoming a public notary under the vague notion that this will somehow further his plans seems like the kind of thing he’d do.
Not an apology but rather a long, honest, relationship-saving talk. This is much more like when they fought over Joyce leaving the church than just romantic drama. But to cliff-note it, emotionally it looks like Becky needs to hear that she’s not being replaced or left behind, and Joyce needs to hear that she isn’t in trouble/being judged.
Now, we also know from that whole debacle that these two know each other well but are quite bad at being in conflict sooo we’ll see what it takes for them to get to some sort of resolution or if their relationship even survives this one.
as bad as I feel fir Becky; I don’t think she’s owed an apology for not getting the girl she wanted, but it’s just that Joyce could at least be a little sympathetic to her atm. If anyone needs an apology; it’s Dina, which may or may not be where Becky is going when she’s done standing in dark rooms.
I honestly think that an Apology would not do much for him, he KNEW this was going to happen, that Joyce and Dorothy were going to be a thing eventually, and while he is certainly in a slump and NEEDS therapy as much as the rest of the cast, I think what he needs right now is to be able to not think about it. He needs people to stop talking about it, and to let him move on in peace.
I think he is telling himself “I should have known” after the fact.
And fundamentally having reason to suspect that your partner might be shitty doesn’t absolve your partner of being shitty.
Saying “Walky knew/should have known that Dorothy would cheat on him” is kinda shifting the blame onto Walky for Dorothy’s bad actions.
In terms of apologies, I actually do think Walky would benefit from hearing “I am sorry. I treated you poorly. You deserve to be treated better” because it still kind of seems like Walky’s default response when people treat him like garbage is to go “yeah, I am garbage”.
Even knowing your partner has feelings for someone else, doesn’t mean knowing they’ll cheat on you. Even if you think they’ll leave you for them, it still doesn’t mean that.
To be fair, this was very minimal cheating, but everyone involved describes it that way.
And yes but, I don’t know if I want Dorothy to make that kind of apology. I’d rather Walky come to the “I deserve better” conclusion on his own, but I’m not sure he actually would.
To be fair to Joyce (always a danger in this forum), she TRIED to be sympathetic to Becky, but then flubbed it because she is still in early-days “everything circles back to praising my new life-love” mode. But really, she did want to set things straight with Becky.
Honestly, i wonder if she should have, contrary to the wishes of the commentariat, waited longer before trying to talk to Becky, because some sort of misstep was almost guaranteed.
Wasn’t really an option, given that they walked into Becky waiting in Joyce’s dark room for them.
Basically the biggest misstep in anything like this is the other person finding out somewhere else and realizing you were hiding it from them. There’s almost nothing you can say telling them that’s going to be worse.
The only thing they need to apologize for is how badly they fucked up the “Telling Becky about the relationship” part, that conversation was a wreck and it made things seem worse then they were.
Becky needs to go apologize to Dina though, maybe after speaking to a therapist about her being unable to move on despite having a loving relationship with somebody else.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. The last thing I wanna hear from someone who has the romantic affection of someone I like over me is that they’re sorry about it. It’s an insulting mix of arrogance and pity. Own your shit Dorothy.
She’s trying. The problem is she still hasn’t figured out what her shit actually is. Dorothy knows she’s got some kind of flaw but can’t seem to actually find it.
I don’t think it’s arrogance or pity in Dorothy’s case. It’s “I truly feel like I have wronged you, and I don’t know in what way I have wronged you and I guessing it’s in this way.” It feels relatable to me
I kind of understand Dorothy slightly for her apology. It can be hard to see your friend feel bad because of your actions but apologizing and feeling sorry someone you hurt and will continue to hurt by your actions is arrogant, especially when you don’t mean it which Dorothy doesn’t.
And it’s because of the context. Dorothy has had plenty of opportunity to not date Joyce. She will continue to do so. She wasn’t feeling sorry during all the kissing and grab assing, she wasn’t feeling sorry while she spent the night with Joyce under Joe’s weighted blanket, or while Joyce and she fucked for nearly an hour. She just bought Joyce a leather jacket and is wearing a gift from her. This won’t stop anytime soon if ever. Does Becky get a notarized apology letter every time? Dorothy doesn’t mean it (which to be clear se shouldn’t) she just doesn’t want to feel bad about it.
Ohhh that’s fair, like, she’s looking for Becky to say “it’s okay actually”, and yeah and apology expecting an answer isn’t a true an apology. I thought arrogance was when you think you’re better than someone though, I genuinely don’t think Dorothy thinks she’s better than Becky, if anything her self-esteem is so shot about so many things she probably sees herself as worse than Becky.
I think you made me are just different in thought when it comes to this kind of stuff tho, if I were in Becky’s shoes I *would* want a “I’m sorry we’ve hurt you by getting together” (even though logically I don’t think I’d be owed an apology, it makes me feel like they cared about my feelings). If I was Becky I’d feel bad because it would feel like only Dorothy seems to care, as opposed to Joyce, my supposedly best friend
I agree with you about her intentions here tho – I think your right that Dorothy is trying to assuage her guilt rather than make Becky feel better
Gods, yes. Issuing random apologies is my thing. And apparently that of Gen. George Pickett of “Yeah, I used to have a division” fame, who was known for thoughtlessly abrasive comments interspaced with “I probably insulted someone in the past half hour” apologia.
Dorothy’s feeling guilt that she’s finally feeling happy while someone else is miserable. In her mind everyone should be happy, and she should be the one giving out happiness… except that’s not how it works in the real world. And her happiness with Joyce is most likely going to run out soon as it only masked a bigger problem Dotty had that manifested the second Blaine didn’t do what she expected him to do and instead ran off with Joyce. Joe’s mere existence makes her have those flashbacks so no doubt she’ll have them if he ever comes near Joyce again for their promised “talk.”
I mean; that definitely sounds like a you issue; internalizing their apology as arrogance instead of compassion or regret. In this case its that and Dorothy not knowing what the duck she’s doing for two arcs now lol
It’s not compassion or regret even if it’s meant to present that way. This is very simple logic. If Dorothy actually regretted her actions she wouldn’t be dating Joyce. What good is compassion if you’re going to continue taking actions you know will hurt the person you’re apologizing to? This apology is only for Dorothy, not to actually make Becky feel any better.
You’re conflating two entirely different things. She can regret the fact that falling in love with Joyce hurt Becky, without at all regretting being Joyce’s ongoing girlfriend. If she stopped dating Joyce now, it would not erase the pain Becky feels that Joyce could love Dorothy in a way that she can’t and won’t love Becky. She’s not apologizing for the dating; she’s explicitly apologizing for the falling in love.
But she doesn’t actually regret falling in love with Joyce. If she could do it again, she would, and there’s no way for her to do that which doesn’t contribute to hurting Becky. She feels guilty that Becky got hurt in her finding love with Joyce, but the apology she wrote isn’t for Becky getting hurt, it’s just for her falling in love with Joyce. Nothing you’ve said here changes the fact that this apology is completely useless. Apologies mean nothing without a corresponding change in behavior, and what exactly can Dorothy change here besides not dating Joyce, which she obviously is not going to do? This apology does nothing for Becky because it’s not actually about her.
I agree with all of this. I just wanted to add that perspective of regret would also be insulting to Joyce. They’ve already hurt their friend and respective partners. Apologizing and regretting falling in love raises the question why you even bothered. Dorothy and Joyce decided together in that moment that being together was worth the strife it would cause in their relationships. Apologizing isn’t showing regret or remorse, it’s trying to have your cake and eat it too.
It’s always weird whenever we see Dorothy show clear sign of her Neuro divergence in the way she interacts with social situations, especially complicated ones, and some people insist she is being “insincere” or other negative connotation.
You don’t have to agree with me. My question to you is what does this apology actually do for Becky? How does this make Becky feel better emotionally or practically?
I’ll admit I’m wrong if Becky actually feels better from this. I want her to feel better, and if a notarized apology letter does that then good. But until then this really reads like performative cope from Dorothy because she can’t deal with someone being hurt by her actions.
I don’t see what that has to do with anything, Becky can not fell better sue to the apology and it still being sincere. Just because Dorothy do things in a kinda weid way does mean it is performative.
You know what, whatever. It’s clear you and i just have incompatible views when it comes to apologies and i don’t think we can see eye to eye on it. So just disengaging from the conversation.
See, that’s really on Dina. She’s the one who chose a dink-and-dunk build, where she taps away at God’s HP bar with small hits to the critical targets; it’s not Dorothy’s fault that she walked into the same boss chamber with the one-hit-tactical-nuke build specifically tailored to kill that one boss! There are no private servers in this game! It’s not even an instanced dungeon!
Now that you mention it, it reminds me of the code of competitiveness in fighting games. If you beat me, you take your win and shake my hand and say good game. Do not apologize for beating me. That is condescending and it suggests either you don’t “deserve” to win over me, or I should have beaten you, which reminds me that I didn’t at the time that I want to hear that the least.
i mean even if she is intentionally copying, there’s only so many unique things you can do with bangs/hairstyles (buti dk if she’s gonna start’ acting’ like dorothy like how sarah started acting ‘cheery’ and jacob thought she was imitating lucy), idk if ppl would’ve thought it if she like, turned it blue/pink or so (i imagine if she still working at galasso’s she’d have some saved up)
Lights off, not good.
Becky’s expressions, not good. … oh, lost her eyes in her bangs in panel 2, missed that she was looking back/to the side and thought she’d just shut them in a moment of “God, what now?” (Which would be quite understandable.)
I’m a notary, and I can’t imagine being asked to sign off on a document like that.
I mean, notaries don’t have to agree with what they’re notarizing or think it’s a good/bad idea. Their only job is to be there and confirm it’s been signed.
Since you are a notary, I’m going to go ahead and horrify you with a trick I was taught by a woman I know. When she needs someone else’s signature on a document notarized, rather than trying to set-up a three way date with that person and the notary, she goes to the notary herself at her convenience, writes “This is an original document” on the document, signs that declaration, and gets the declaration notarized. The counter-party can sign the document also at her convenience either before or after she does this. The end results looks exactly like the counter-party signature was notarized, even though it wasn’t. This is technically fraud, depending on the document, it can be felony fraud, but apparently risking felony fraud is more convenient than fitting another person into her schedule. I once watched her do it with a pre-signed document and saw the notary visibly hesitate before agreeing to do it. You would think there would be a way to like draw a square around a specific signature and say you’re only notarizing that one.
I understand (possibly misunderstand) that a notary keeps a log book of the things they have notarized. I would think it would be prudent to make a note in the log that one signature was missing, in case they are later called to testify in court.
Ninety nine and nine/tenths of the time this isn’t going to make a bit of difference, but that other tenth of a percent will kill you.
Luckily, none of these three girls are sheltered at all. Even better, Joyce and Dorothy totally understand, and are adept at navigating, social situations with complexities and subtleties! Otherwise, this would get really awkward and painful, like, nearly immediately.
My theory is that they’re putting all their energy towards Becky because they subconsciously know they didn’t *really* do anything wrong to her (besides getting caught in her room) which means they can more easily shake off the guilt. This also makes it easier to ignore the shame of confronting the people they actually hurt.
No, I really don’t think this is it. I think that’s actually not giving them enough credit.
Everybody keeps focusing on whether or not Dorothy and Joyce “actually did anything wrong” by Becky; I think this is the wrong point to focus on. Yes, both of them do feel bad; I just think, even with their many misunderstandings, both of them have taken Becky’s reaction so seriously purely because they know how bad this will make her feel, and why.
Yes, they want to apologize and make things better, but I really believe that’s less because they feel culpable of wrong-doing to Becky, and more because they know Becky well enough to recognize,:
A) that actualizing the potential that Joyce likes girls will trigger Becky’s latent trauma over loving Joyce
B) that actualizing the reality of Dorothy and Joyce dating will trigger Becky’s latent anxiety that she will have her connection to Joyce supplanted, and will thus be abandoned, and that
C) anything that makes Becky feel like a loved one is abandoning her, activates her trauma about losing her family.
Maybe I’m wrong about this, but I really believe they haven’t been most scared about dealing with Becky’s reaction, because they are such numbskulls that they think they’ve wronged her by breaking any social rules; they’re scared of dealing with Becky’s reaction, because they know her well enough to know that this is the exact worst possible outcome for making her spiral out of control of her life, possibly to the point of severe consequences; but they also know that, because this has happened, she will want space from them to process the hurt, which means neither of them can obsessively hover around her, to make sure she’s not in danger of hurting herself, because obviously their very presence will be a severe stressor to Becky.
In short, they’re having trouble navigating the facts that their actions caused Becky to be in great pain, that there’s nothing they can do to prevent Becky feeling the absolute worst about this, and there’s nothing they can do to help, which won’t make it worse; but, they can’t reconcile the obvious solution (give Becky space and time), with the very real reality that Becky may legitimately be in danger right now, and definitely needs the attention and support of her closest friends more than ever.
Every solution that one would normally employ after they caused someone to have hurt feelings, let alone triggering obvious emotional trauma, cannot work here, because what Becky needs from them is to leave her the fuck alone; but, leaving Becky the fuck alone with these feelings, is also an obviously wrong thing to do. That’s actually not an easy situation for Joyce and Dorothy to navigate, and navigating it imperfectly is to be expected.
Let alone that I haven’t even touched on the reality that this creates real, practical problems in the immediate sense. How the fuck is Dorothy supposed to give Becky space, when they literally live together? But, Joyce and Dorothy are willing to go to great lengths to accommodate that; it’s the fear of Becky’s inevitable breakdown or crashout that they don’t have a solution for.
I mean, it’s clear they’ll CONSIDER it, and then do whatever they were going to do anyway and just “Feel performatively bad about it (Dorothy)”/”assert they have every right to do it (Joyce)”.
I get why Becky is impacted by Dorothy/Joyce, I get why that’s a bridge to far and put her in a bad place and I dont actually think Becky is in the wrong for feeling that way.
That being said Dorothy/Joyce didnt wrong Becky by getting together. It was an action they took that hurt Becky as a result but its not on them to avoid ther relationship to avoid that hurt for her.
Now the messaging and the way Becky found out could have been handled a little more tactfully. But I dont fault Doyce because their getting together caused Becky distress.
I DO fault Doyce for their treatment of Joe/Walky/most people but that’s a separate gripe.
Yea I dont think Joyce needs to apologize for falling in love with someone else, Becky doesnt own her, but I do think Joyce should be the one sending someone to check on her and stuff. Shes her best friend, not Dorothy. Especially after Becky tried to cover for her with her dad.
That’s a really good point, idk I know Dorothy is a very awkward bean but at least she’s doing something and seems to care. I think Joyce does too, but we get three panels here and there of her being like 🙁 vs Dorothy at least trying to do something about it, flawed though it may be
Years ago I had to get a document selling some stocks notarized. It noted that for amounts over $14,000,000 an ordinary notary was not enough you needed some kind special super-duper-notary’s seal instead.
You two are right. I dug out the form and the medallion is required for over $10,000. I was misremembering the line:
“If the value of the shares you are transferring exceeds $14 million, or if you have any questions, please contact us online through the “Contact Us” section of the website.”
i think she’d know walky wouldn’t even read half a paragraph of that and just buy him a figure or something, well, idk if he collects figures as much as ethan does other htan the one he threw at dorothy’s head
If she’s as smart as the cast believes, she’ll stay the fuck away from Walky until the heat dies down. Unfortunately, her desire to seek exoneration through procedure means she’ll probably convince herself that she can confront Walky in a way that’ll end with him saying none of this was actually her fault. I can’t think of a single time in the webcomic that this strategy has worked out for her, but fuck it we ball.
Crazy for Becky to get an apology from Dorothy before Joe. Where’s the honest “sorry for cheating and stealing your girl” written apology? At least that would get the potential polycule conversation rolling
Dotty is still under the impression that Joyce and Joe broke up. Yeah its fine that Joe is cool with the girls smoochingand being together, but Dot doesn’t know that, and hasn’t spoken to Joe since the time he confronted her about the spicy pics she sent to Joyce
It’s not entirely clear what Joyce thinks. She said that, but he made a counteroffer, introducing the idea that she doesn’t have to.
Then the last time she mentioned him she still called him her boyfriend and had a weird look when Dorothy corrected her to “ex-boyfriend”. I don’t think she’s said anything about him since then.
last time Dorothy was talking to Joe, she was accusing him of having not earned anything (read: having no character development) and of being a cheater- an accusation that’s just rich coming from her given the events to follow, and directed at a man who’s never been in a committed relationship specifically because he doesn’t want to do what his father did. a man who came to talk to her in the first place to check on someone whom he considered a friend, going so far as to tell that same friend to be honest about the feelings she was having for his own girlfriend
and I don’t recall them talking meaningfully since
I like Dorothy (she’s my favorite mess and the truest example of even the best of us don’t have it all figured out) but that rant about Joe earning nothing keeps bringing me back.
What exactly has she struggled for? She wanted Walky, she got Walky. She wanted them to break up, they broke up. She wanted Walky again, she got him again. She wanted Harvard, she got Harvard (ironically after deciding she no longer wanted it). She secretly pined and wanted Joyce, she has Joyce now.
I didn’t read that conversation as her accusing him of being a cheater. She said that her (at the time) minimal cheating made her no better than him, but I read that as referencing Old Joe’s overall behavior to women – the list, objectification, harassment, etc. That they were both equivalently bad, not that he’d done the same thing.
Dorothy doesn’t owe Joe an apology, but Joyce did promise to go talk to him again and she’s neglected that quite completely at this point. Joyce owes Joe an apology for that, and I’d say she owes Walky an apology for being a complete ass towards him about it all.
Becky owes Joyce an apology for acting like she had ‘dibs’, especially when she already has Dina. And Becky owes Dina an apology for making her feel like a backup option.
Dorothy and Becky though? I’m glad they’re talking and not fighting. I really don’t want their friendship to break under this weight. Especially after their conversation the other night which was one of my favorite Becky moments ever.
Dorothy really would like Joe to be someone she can look down upon, which is something she is aware isn’t fair but has been a hidden disdain she’d held for a long time.
Yeah, mostly because Joe was far all the years she’s known him someone she could look down on. It’s only very recently he’s changed and she can be forgiven for catching on to (or believing in) the changes he was mostly hiding until even more recently.
@Tessea I recommend checking out the tagged archive. Joe and Dorothy’s last interaction wasn’t the greatest and Joe is 100% deserving of a conversation, apologetically or even to check up on someone who was considered a friend of Dorothy’s https://www.dumbingofage.com/tag/joe/page/5/
In Dorothy’s eyes Joe is the evil sex-crazed horndog that would ruin fair, innocent Joyce. Dorothy has no intention of ever SPEAKING to him, let alone APOLOGIZE to him. And I’m sure Dorothy would do everything in her power to make sure Joe never gets within 50 feet of Joyce until they graduate. I don’t think Dotty would rub her relationship in Joe’s face like Joyce is doing with Walky, but I think Dotty would rather write a thousand apology notes to Becky than say two words to Joe.
She did think so and she had good reason to think that way. That was in fact Joe’s original intent with Joyce, way back when: to fix her with his penis.
She’s basically gotten over it, though I doubt she’s likely to be friends with anytime soon.
I legitimately don’t think avoiding responsibility is Dorothy’s style. It seems like her style is more to structure it into a “Rulebook for Right Action”.
“I hurt someone. The proper thing to do when one hurts someone is to apologize. I will schedule some time to write an apology.”
But it’s also way easier to apologize for something if, deep down, you don’t think you’ve done anything wrong.
Because, objectively speaking, Dotty *didn’t* do anything wrong. Becky is not owed Joyce’s love or even friendship.
And so the apology is easy because it’s totally just for Becky. Whereas I think she’d have a much harder time apologizing to Walky because boy did she do him dirty there.
I think it’s subconscious on Dorothy’s part, I don’t think she’s conscious of how this apology is entirely performative, but yeah, this apology is entirely performative.
Yup, agreed. Dorothy didn’t do anything wrong to Becky. Did some stuff wrong in other ways, but not anything that Becky deserves an apology over.
I’d say the main thing Dorothy messes up on is by being performative in ways that are not helpful:
– “Moment of Silence for Mike”
– “Apologize to Asma”
I am inclined to think that her heart is in the right place, it is just that the thinks of problems as something that she personally should solve. So when she isn’t the right person to solve them she screws up.
Dorothy, why are you apologizing for something you wanted and intend to keep doing? The point of saying “I’m sorry” is to communicate “this is isn’t what I wanted”. It’s why you say “I’m sorry I lied” or “I’m sorry your mother died”, you are telling the other person that the thing that happened is not what you want to have happened. You should apologize for hurting Becky, not for falling in love with her best friend. It’s entirely valid to wish that you could have fallen in love with Joyce without hurting Becky, it’s not valid to act like you wish you wouldn’t have fallen in love with Joyce, because you are clearly pretty happy that it happened.
You’re right, and I’d like to think–since Dorothy is fairly thoughtful–that a lot of that distinction is covered in more detail in the letter. But it’s also in Dorothy’s personality to feel misplaced shame and regret over the aspects of this situation that she doesn’t actually owe an apology for.
(Plus, I grant some suspension of disbelief for the fact that sometimes things have to be sort of oversimplified to fit into chat bubbles)
The problem is Dorothy is looking for exoneration, not forgiveness. Dorothy can’t cope with the idea that she hurt people while following her heart, so she apologizes in ways that’ll coax the wronged party into giving her permission to keep doing it. Naturally, she’s got a form for that.
*Is* she happy that it happened? She tried really hard to push it away and push it down and deny it. Nothing I’ve seen of her so far has indicated falling in love with Joyce was something Dorothy would have chosen, if she could choose who to fall in love with. It’s true that she isn’t resisting anymore and is happy to be with Joyce and isn’t planning to stop, but I wouldn’t say that necessarily means she’s “happy that it happened.” To use an analogy, I’m transitioning and I’m happy to be doing so and enjoying what’s happening and I have no plans to stop, but I’m not Happy That I’m Trans. I would not have chosen to be trans if I had the option. And I really haven’t seen any evidence that falling in love with Joyce is actually something Dorothy wanted.
lol nah, Dorothy’s the one making it weird, she involved a notary in her elaborate apology. Compared to that I think a lil’ Freudian slip makes perfect sense.
Now this is the Dorothy I know and love. Hopefully we see her give Walky one too. (even though I believe Billie was mistaken when she essentially told Dorothy that Walky’s heart was in their brief rebound as much as it it’d been in their initial relationship, it would still be in character for Dorothy to do this [plus Joyce being a bongo about the situation still warrants an apology regardless of Walky’s feelings]).
(Yes I went ahead and wrote ‘bongo’ because I knew the filter would change it.)
Yeah, but… nah, but…
What is with Becky’s eyes in panel 2? Are they shut? That looks great, an OFFS look. But then 2 circles, displaced from where eyes should be…
Are they open, smaller than usual, moved to Becky’s right and have lines under them?? What kind of expression would that be?
(Gets phone out and enlarges, yep, those are eyes)
Yeah, me too…
Except all I could think was; ‘couldn’t decide if he wanted small eyes of shock, or closed eyes of “moment before broken peace”… and forgot to erase one of ’em’ !
I’m sorry I fell in love with your best friend,
it was months befire I even realized
And if I had a choice
I’d go again for Joyce
Now here’ s a letter, signed and notarized
I wonder if Dorothy thought to write similar letters of apology to Walky and Joe, the people her and Joyce were actually dating and cheated on when they got together. Or did she only have this level of consideration for a person neither of them were dating?
The latter. She’s perfectly fine with Joyce’s ‘FUCK OFF MINE NOW HAHAHA LOSER HAHAHA’ to Walky on her behalf, and she claimed to love him. Joe she hates so consideration was never going to be a thing.
Only people who were not in fact wronged, like Asma and Becky, get apologies.
Are there many standards around what can and cannot be notarized?
My impression was that literally all notary’s did was affirm that the person signing the document was indeed the person they claimed to be.
Which is one of the reasons why you shouldn’t trust someone just because they have a notarized document. The notary isn’t certifying that the document is legitimate, just that the person signing it was that person and wasn’t coerced.
I don’t actually think the new haircut looks much like Dotty’s, unless dotty is wearing a hat. It feels too short to me, any similarities feels like an art style thing to me. But Willis themself said its single white femaleing dotty so I guess it’s a me thing
Dorothy, you used the correct letter structure, so that’s good. But you used APA format for your citations, and MLA is the proper format for apology letters. You need to rewrite it.
Dorothy does have actual regrets, though? This is such a weird take. Dorothy regrets that her actions hurt Becky at bare minimum. Without knowing the meat of the apology, there’s no way to know what else she might feel genuinely regretful for.
This just feels like you making up things to be annoyed at Dorothy about.
…anyway this strip is delightful, Dorothy is delightful in it. Continue to really enjoy this storyline!
Also just gonna reiterate that I personally think it’s pretty clear that Dorothy and Joyce are so apologetic to Becky because she’s the one they actually know is upset. Joyce now has some indication that Walky might be upset, but Dorothy certainly doesn’t.
(Like, yeah, Jennifer once told Dorothy that she underestimates the hold she has over Walky, but one of Jennifer’s most established character traits is her poor judgment of people and situations. She’s not always wrong about everything, and there are certain domains where her expertise shines through, but even though she’s known Walky forever, she’s still often wrong when she tries to tell other characters how he’s feeling.
Not always! But often. As a reader, I can tell the difference between when Jennifer is telling us something she’s meant to know and when she’s not, but if I were a character in-universe, and I thought I KNEW I didn’t have much of a hold over Walky, I’m not at all sure I’d take Jennifer, specifically, telling me otherwise very seriously.)
Man I might be misremembering the exact events around Walky getting together with Amber or Dorothy, but I thought Jennifer took credit for one of them because she thought she saw Walky with a hopeless crush and was entirely wrong. I think Dorothy? And then I think maybe Joyce did the exact same thing of trying to help get him together with Amber…
If I’m wrong and it was someone else who tried to take credit with setting Walky and Dorothy up, my bad, I’ll downgrade Jennifer from “often” wrong to “sometimes” wrong about him specifically! But even if she was always, always right about Walky, it would still be fair for most characters to doubt her judgment on him. Especially characters other than, like, Sal, because most characters haven’t actually witnessed Jennifer being RIGHT about Walky, heh.
I think the issue is that an apology isn’t really what makes it right for Becky.
Let’s say you ask your crush out and they reject you. You feel sad. That makes sense. Which would make you feel better:
a) Spending time with friends who like you
b) Your crush apologizing for not going out with you
Becky needs support, and is going through stuff with a lot more weight to it than just a regular rejection, but Dorothy and Joyce are still kinda the worst possible people to be giving that support because they are a big part of the cause of Becky’s pain. That doesn’t mean they wronged Becky, but it does mean that for a little bit their presence might hurt.
Sometimes people aren’t who you want them to be. That can cause pain, but it isn’t other people’s fault if they don’t align with your desires. The healing process doesn’t need an apology, it needs time away from them doing things to reaffirm your own self worth.
What would be best for Becky, IMO, would be to go talk to Leslie.
You said you think “the issue” is that the apology was bad, but my top-level was commenting about how I personally find it understandable it is that Dorothy and Joyce have been so focused on Becky’s feelings, because I don’t think Dorothy especially really knows that Walky is hurting right now.
So, I mean, it seemed like an argument to me, but either way it’s not really relevant to my comment.
Honestly, the best heuristic for whether Jennifer is correct or not is “Is the person she’s opining about as emotionally immature and/or stuck in high school as she can be at her worst? Then she’s probably right.”
Pff. I think that’s a LITTLE mean, but not necessarily wrong.
I also think we in the comments are a little harsh about these kids being stuck in high school — we kind of can’t help it, because high school was 15 years ago in our time, but Jennifer was in high school less than six months ago…
On the other hand: I think no one is in a bigger rush to be “over high school” than college freshman.
I’d go so far as to say one of those notes this strip has ALWAYS been spot-on about is that there are three kinds of college freshmen:
– trying to be over high school, and mostly succeeding.
– trying to be over high school, but not really succeeding.
– absolutely not over high school, and trying to make college high school round 2 in some way.
I do feel like it’s actually pretty fair to characterize Jennifer as being stuck in 3 for most of the strip and somewhere closer to 2 nowadays.
Well, you seem to feel more neutrally about being stuck in high school than a lot of commenters I’ve read express the opinion, haha. There’s been a pretty continuous thread of “it’s really weeeeeird how much these characters still care about high school”. 😉
I don’t peg any of them as still caring directly about high school except Jennifer (a lot), Dorothy (in context with her high school classmates Joe/Danny who are also here, whose growth she often doubts), Walky/Sal (to the extent it influences their relationship with Jennifer), or Amber (it’s the trauma!)
I think whether Walky is upset or not is immaterial. Dorothy cheated on him. That is a wrong she committed against him, and she should apologize for it. She frankly should be interacting with Becky as little as possible right now, not doing this vaudeville routine with a notarized apology. She and Joyce are not who Becky needs to be seeing right now.
Well, she clearly wasn’t intending to interact with Becky right now, since, as she says, she came by because she thought Becky was out. Presumably she was either going to give her the letter later or mail it to her.
Gosh, holy replies, Batman! (Not a complaint. 🙂 Just not used to getting this much of a response.)
I will say: I wrote a bit of a defense up there for Dorothy NOT checking in on Walky, but I also think it’s too early to say that “check in on Walky” isn’t on her agenda for the day — as Astariel notes, Dorothy was actually trying to avoid Becky, but also happened to have written up (and somehow notarized) an official apology for her. We definitely don’t know for sure that she hasn’t also written (and notarized) an official apology for Walky.
But I can also very easily imagine that Dorothy’s current plan re: Walky is “give him space”.
The last time they broke up, Dorothy tried for a “more distant without making things too weird” approach, which backfired (Walky immediately clocked it as super weird when she called him David). In terms of a character who definitely collates spreadsheets of past attempts at things and their outcomes, it would make sense to me if she’s going to try something different this time — and probably something every bit as cringey and awkward, because that seems to be her usual in social situations, heh.
I think it’s certainly possible that she’s written up a LOT of apology letters over the years, but I don’t agree that she has a stack of them. I’m sure they’re all very specific to the incidents in question. Like, if she has a letter for Joe, I’m sure it’s fully distinct from the letter for Becky, apart from including some form of ill-advised sorry-I-fell-in-love-with-someone-you-also-love in there.
As Dot said whether or not Walky is upset or not is immaterial but also Dorothy not knowing it also (seemingly) somewhat due to her own lack of care/followthrough on the topic. Given that the last time she saw him Joyce was literally rubbing what they did into his face and after that they simply havent’t spoken on the matter.
I could be wrong and if I am by all means please correct me but I don’t think she’s even reached out to him since
I mean, I do think a biiiig part of that is that the author had an intended read of the “nyahaha Dorothy’s mine” strip which landed with about half of the people who commented that day, and DEEPLY did not land for the other half.
Like, if Dorothy had processed what Joyce was doing the same way half the readership did, absolutely it would make sense for her to apologize for it — heck, it would make sense for her to have take Joyce to task for it.
But. Well, she clearly didn’t process it that way. She clearly processed it as part and parcel of Joyce and Walky’s usual dynamic, which is something she’s almost always stayed out of on both sides. (She’s only actually asked Walky to cut out his half of their bickering rivalry once, and I think she’s only really acknowledged Joyce’s half of it once or twice.)
Which, don’t get me wrong, you have my sympathy, but I don’t think it’s productive to hold Dorothy accountable for not being apologetic about something that wasn’t supposed to be all that mean.
I just don’t think you can do Joyce and Walky’s usual dynamic anymore, at least not for a long while. The context has changed, and I think that was very clearly demonstrated a few strips ago. I’m sure Willis didn’t intend that strip with Joyce yanking Dorothy away as anything malicious on Joyce’s part, but – oh well, that’s in the text now, and I think it’s very easy to see how it could be read as such.
I mean, I would say my calling it an opinion shared by 50% of the commenters was leaving a LOT of room for it being “easy to see how it could be read as such”!
I just think the two readings (“that was a super messed up thing for Joyce to do to Walky” and “that was par for the course of their relationship thus far”) are incompatible. If we agree that Willis intended the latter reading, then expecting the narrative to conform to the former is just… unlikely to yield results.
That’s why I said I don’t think it’s productive to hold Dorothy accountable for not being apologetic about it. Not that I don’t think it’s “fair” or a “valid reading” of the text, just that I think it’s setting yourself up for a lot of frustration in the future.
I fucking wish people stop thinking of ways in which Dorothy is actually bad or duplicitous for the apology note when it is a very well established thing that she does completely sincerely because she is kinda, absolutely, autistic.
Sonce i seen you are receptive to this kind of ask, dot could please don’t reply to my comments. I been trying my best to avoid interacting with you as much as i can and i like if you do the same. I just, don’t vibe with you honestly, and o fell you could fell the same way so i think it be better for both of us.
Becky has been friendly with everyone she has met thus far in her dorm wing. I think looking in the archives its fair to say Sarah, Joe, Lucy, Ruth, Asma, Walky, Amber and even Sal are still core friends she has good ties with.
I’m trying to think of people that she could actually go to with emotional distress.
Like Walky has some support sometimes from Sal, Jennifer, and even Booster.
Joe is friends with Danny (who’d probably love a sincere conversation about feelings… good lord I want to see this now), and Dina, and maybe even Sarah at this point.
Dina is friends with Amber, and Joe, and maybe Sarah (+probably best parents).
But if Becky were upset and needed someone to talk to I think the best bet would be Leslie or Robin (I also want to see this now. Robin advice is very entertaining).
I think what’d be best for Becky, Walky *and* Joe atp would be to have friends outside the main group, go decompress and be away from Joyce and Dorothy for a while.
It’s wild how much I’ve soured on Dorothy over the past few years. She used to be the one I’d go to bat for in terms of her motivations, where I’d be like “yeah, but she means well” when she screwed up, and now…yeah, I don’t much do that anymore.
Because I think this is an entirely performative apology and I don’t think Dorothy even realizes it. She’s apologizing to Becky instead of Walky because it’s easier for her to do so when, deep down, she doesn’t actually think she did anything wrong. Which, honestly, she didn’t! Not to Becky. And so apologizing to her is entirely about placating Becky’s feelings and means Dorothy doesn’t have to do any self-reflection along the lines of “hey, maybe hooking up with Walky only to dump him like two days later was a shitty thing to do”
I mean less hooking up with Walky and the getting with Joyce, that’s fairly victimless all told. What she did wrong with Walky was *getting back into a romantic relationship with him* and then *cheating on him with Joyce*. She didn’t have to do that. No one forced her to.
^Guy who’s up and down every comment section boasting about how much they enjoy cringey, emotionally messy characters when other commenters correctly clock cringe, emotional messiness
I actually don’t have to agree with a clear mischaracterization of a character i like to fill the made up box you put me in. This is asinine. I think Phipps take is shit and that doesn’t change my opinions of any of the other characters thanks you very much. Also:you can fuck off too.
Disagree all you like but I think Dorothy really hates the idea she’s doing the wrong thing and when both Joe and Dan point this out, she rejects it. She can’t deal with not being the good person in this.
That’s not a thing she did consciously, it was a felling she got because emotions and trauma are complicated. She didn’t even actually tell anyone about that. It’s not shitty ti have intrusive thoughts.
I’m with Nadamas on this one, like if you can show me a strip where Dorothy says “you are the same as Blaine” then I will grant you this point, but you will not find that strip. What you will find is Dorothy anxiously watching Joyce leave her behind, as she has worried and even had nightmares about, and Joe just happens to be the guy she’s leaving with in that moment.
This is genuinely such a terrible take. You are blaming her for a moment of PTSD that she didn’t even express out lout to anyone. Literal thought crimes.
Ok I do wanna go on record and say I think accusing Dorothy of equating Joe and Blaine is a stretch. I think her previous idea of Joe activates a lot of ptsd alarm bells for her and that can understandably warp her judgment, but she’s never taken it that far.
You do not have final authority on fictional neurodivergence. Speaking as somebody who’s also autistic, acting like everyone who takes issue with Dorothy’s behavior is trying to covertly punish her is incredibly tiresome. Having sincere guilt and limited social awareness does not preclude somebody from acting in shitty, performative ways.
If you want to be neurodivergence God, I shall claim neurodivergence Devil.
Basically, I like Joyce and Dina as example and don’t like Dorothy or Booster as them.
Weirdly, I think Jennifer could be an unconventional example as she is incredibly socially gregarious….and utterly misunderstands every social cue and facial recognition.
Nah, when it comes to neurodivergence, you gotta take the good with the bad. This stuff manifests in different people in different ways. Someone acting out in a shitty way because they’re neurodivergent isn’t suddenly unworthy of understanding. It’s entirely possible to empathize with Dorothy and Booster while also acknowledging how they can come off as oblivious in a tight spot.
I’m doing a bit because I don’t believe you should ever get upset with someone who exists in RL over a fictional character. You like Dorothy as a better person, I like her as a worse. I appreciate your input and consider you a favorite poster, Nadamas. The forum would be lesser without you.
I don’t think Dorothy is a better person, i just don’t she is anything like you portray her in your weird ass, bad faith takes. If i wasn’t stupidly addicted to it i would keave these comments specifically to not have to see any of them again.
I don’t read her as so much seeking moral superiority, as someone who believes very hard that she can fix things.
It isn’t so much a desire for control, as a belief that she already has control. If she just acts as the perfect person everything will be good.
I think Dorothy’s arc is a little bit about her learning to accept her own limitations, and learning that there is so much she can’t control, can’t fix, and how to keep trying despite that.
So here with Becky, she knows Becky is hurting and is thinking “If I just do the right thing by the book things will get better”. So she does what she things the right thing should be when someone is hurt because of you, and gives an apology.
I like Dorothy just fine but I like an incredibly flawed un-admirable Dorothy as that’s the more interesting one. For me, I think it’d be awesome to have the character explore her darker side and selfihsness.
And realize, yes, those are okay in small amounts.
I thought that Becky showing up would make me feel better about her not self-harming. Now that she is pushing down all her self doubt and anxiety and sense of worthlessness to pretend everything is fine and normal and regular I am suddenly reminded of Chromedome and now I’m *really* worried.
It’s always weird whenever we see Dorothy show clear sign of her Neuro divergence in the way she interacts with social situations, especially complicated ones, and some people insist she is being “insincere” or other negative connotation
Yes but Willis hasn’t deliberately raised the suspicion that Dorothy is ND in canon, yet, the way they did with Joyce; therefore, I think a lot of people just feel safer reading Dorothy as NT, which eliminates a lot of potential for many people to give her any leeway at all when she makes mistakes.
But, at the same time, I’m not shocked at anybody who isn’t dealing with neurodivergence in their day-to-day lives, being imperceptive to subtler signs that some characters are not neurotypical. Going around trying to clock who may or may not be neurodivergent, in my experience, is a pretty much exclusively neurodivergent behavior pattern.
idk, Throwatron, I think Willis has very explicitly raised the suspicion that Dorothy is ND in canon.
And then, of course, there are all the many times Dorothy has just demonstrated it, like when she told Danny she’s practiced comforting people with physical touch too much to be bad at it.
like, I assume some people are just taking her at her word when she pulls these denials, but the strip itself has lampshaded every time that the specifics of Dorothy’s denials are… wrong. Suspiciously specific, and wrong.
Dorothy was clearly trying to avoid Becky and give her space. She snuck into the room to grab clothes while she thought Becky was out, so she could continue trying to give space for as long as the clothes held out. It’s just, they share a room, and Becky showed up to it.
And Dorothy also has a powerful impulse to do Proper Apologies, so she’d done that impulse too and was totally carrying it around in her backpack. As everyone has noted, the apology isn’t really for Becky, it’s for herself, the act of writing it and following protocol, in an attempt to assuage her own guilt — but I think Dorothy knows that the letter is mainly self-serving, which is why she didn’t originally intend to give Becky the letter.
She was gonna try to be cooler: send somebody else to check in on Becky, give Becky space, and then, when surprised, compliment her haircut without making it weird — but she’s Dorothy, so, she blurted it out / made it weird. 🙂
I don’t like that the apology letter is about “falling in love”, for the same reasons others have mentioned, and also because it’s passive. She can apologize for acting obnoxious while falling in love, I guess, but her idea of giving space would’ve been the better way.
I do like that the apology emphasizes/cedes/affirms “your best friend”, which was a title where Becky feels a very strong need.
Truly do not understand all the “this is performative” comments. Dorothy has been worrying about how this would hurt other people since like 30 seconds after they got out of the tear gas. Dorothy writes notes for apologies and thank yous. Of course Dorothy would address it in writing; that doesn’t make this insincere. It is totally possible (and the right thing to do) to recognize and apologize for, or express sympathy for, the pain you’ve caused someone even when you can’t make it right.
How hard is it to understand? Dorothy’s a woman, she’s queer, she’s obviously neurodivergent in some way, she’s ambitious, and she’s earnest. Any one of those traits alone makes her a soulless freak whose only desire is to manipulate everyone around her with token gestures and carefully chosen lies. That’s definitely what’s happening in the strip, it’s definitely what the character is about, and anyone who accuses her of those behaviors definitely doesn’t need to re-examine their personal biases.
Yeah, people are being very hard on Dorothy, and I don’t think it’s deserved at all. A lot of it is probably spillover from being mad about the cheating, and there’s always been a contingent that didn’t like Dorothy because she’s an ambitious woman.
I feel the same way, except substitute “Dorothy,” with “any character in this comic who is remotely a protagonist in any fashion.” A lot of commenters just seem to like taking every character in the comic at their absolute worst interpretation, and to read them like a moustache-twirling villain in all interactions. I do not grasp how anyone can live day-to-day being so caustically judgemental, and not blow a gasket somewhere along the way.
I’m calling her apology performative because Dorothy didn’t actually do anything wrong by Becky and I think deep down Dorothy knows that. Becky didn’t get “dibs” on a bisexual Joyce’s affections. Dorothy certainly didn’t set out with malice aforethought to seduce Joyce away from Becky.
And you contrast that with Walky, who I think most people would agree is owed an eloquent apology for Dorothy basically toying with his affections so much- not just cheating on him, but trying to seduce him away from Lucy and jumping on him the moment those two split up. But if Dorothy sat down to write that, she’d have to actually reflect on her behavior. Much easier to make a huge song and dance about how sorry she is for hurting Becky.
I think it’s mostly subconscious on Dorothy’s part- I think consciously she does believe Becky deserves an apology. But 1) Becky never asked for an apology and 2) apologizing like this means she doesn’t actually have to change any of her behavior or reflect on how her past behavior stunk. Because she knows that at the end of the day, Becky’s pain is self-inflicted.
The idea that Dorothy knows deep down that she didn’t do anything to Becky is… not one that I think is well-supported by the text.
I’m also completely at a loss for how apologizing for something immediately frees the apologizer from having to change their behavior going forward??? Since when?
Like jeez Louise, I don’t think I’ve ever apologized for something in my life without being expected to work on the mistake and try to avoid it in the future……..?
If I were some of the commenters here, this is where I’d be writing fanfic.
That’s what I always did when I saw an author going very determinedly in the opposite direction of what I thought made sense and would be more interesting. Especially for ships, but not just for ships!
Like, genuinely, I think “Dorothy’s apology here is entirely performative even if she doesn’t realize it” is a great premise for a fanfic. “Joyce and Dorothy are just fully callous people now who don’t care who they hurt” is, likewise, a great premise for a fanfic.
It feels pretty clearly at odds with Willis’s authorial intent, but that’s exactly what fanfic is best at.
I don’t necessarily agree, if i saw fanfics with those premises i would avoid them like the plague and block the authors, but it certainly would be better that the endless complaining.
A sincere apology comes from a place of actual recognition of wrongdoing and regret. I don’t think we’ve really seen Dorothy regret her actions, just recognize that they hurt people.
1. “I know this is wrong, so I won’t do it”
2. “I know this is wrong, so I’ll feel bad after I do it”
3. “I know this is wrong, but I’m allowed to make mistakes so I don’t need to feel bad about it”
4. “This isn’t wrong”
I think the #1 is sincere whereas #2 (Dorothy) is just using self-flagellation to pay the price for wrong action. They don’t believe it is deeply wrong, just that it needs to have a cost.
Fundamentally this mindset comes from a punitive understanding of morality. We don’t do bad to avoid shame/guilt.
The alternative is a joy/life focused understanding of morality, where we don’t do bad because it doesn’t align with our values/what’s alive in us.
Interesting. I don’t intend this to sound accusatory, but I suspect it’s going to anyway: I find your explanation and the way you view apologies to be strange.
You note that if Dorothy sat down to write something like this to Walky, she’d have to reflect on her behavior (“But if Dorothy sat down to write that, she’d have to actually reflect on her behavior”). But then you turn around and say that apologizing this way to Becky means Dorothy doesn’t need to reflect (“apologizing like this means she doesn’t actually have to change any of her behavior or reflect on how her past behavior stunk”). I don’t know how to reconcile your position. Especially considering you open your comment with “Dorothy didn’t actually do anything wrong by Becky.”
I agree that Dorothy didn’t do anything wrong by Becky and may or may not realize that, but…the rest of your comment sounds like you’re interpreting Dorothy as unconsciously using this letter as a get-out-of-guilt-free card? and basically nothing more? I don’t see it. Sometimes it’s worth acknowledging the pain we cause other people regardless of whether our actions were wrong or not; when we know we’ve hurt someone, it is kind to recognize that and express sorrow, even when there’s nothing we can do to make it right. Dorothy knows that. I do think part of this action will address Dorothy’s guilt, but I don’t think that makes it “performative.”
Example: When I got married, my best friend felt hurt that I made my sister maid of honor. I told my friend I loved her and I was sorry, I knew it was a difficult pill to swallow, and I hoped she understood. Because the alternative would be to, what, ignore her pain and pretend everything was fine, secure in the knowledge that I actually did nothing wrong? She’s my best friend and she was hurting. I’m not ignoring that even though her pain was rooted in her own expectations.
My point is, sometimes “sorry” is an expression of sympathy, not an admission of wrongdoing. Dorothy may view this as the latter, but it’s still fueled by and likely expresses feelings of the former. Speaking strictly for me, I would not call that a performance.
I think maybe they’re saying that if Dorothy did this for Walky she would have to reflect on her behavior, but instead she did it for Becky instead BECAUSE she doesn’t really have anything to apologize for, but it makes her feel less guilty overall.
You’ve mostly got it. And to be honest, it’s perfectly ok to disagree with me on this one. Reasonable people can do that.
But let me try and rephrase.
Becky is not in a position where she’s going to be receptive of this apology- she’s too deep in self-loathing- and I think Dorothy knows her roommate well enough to see that. And if an apology isn’t going to do anything to make the recipient feel better, it’s a *lot* more likely to be performative.
Basically, this apology is not going to make Becky feel better, and Dorothy is smart enough to know that.
I should add that making a performative apology is not in any way a big crime- heck, this is the most interested I’ve been in Dorothy’s thought process since she hooked up with Joyce- but at the end of the day I think Dorothy is doing this because it’ll make her feel better rather than out of a sincere desire to help Becky.
Which is not to say she doesn’t want to help Becky- she obviously does, she obviously feels bad about hurting her. But she’s smart enough that she *should* know this apology isn’t going to help her.
That is a sweet gesture if nothing else and Becky’s facial expression does suggest that she knows that even if she’s still a bit upset for obvious reasons
I’m just confused now. I have my opinions but I’m not sure how to even read this strip anymore. Is intent all that matters behind this apology? Is this just a neurodivergent quirk highlighting Dorothy’s inability to understand a complex social interaction? Is sincerity what’s important even if divorced from context? Maybe this strip is just a silly joke I’ve taken too seriously?
I don’t think the strip it’s a silly joke but i do think you, and other people took a bit too seriously. Maybe i had too due to certain comments being a bit triggering for me i don’t know.
I always find the idea that you can’t take the punchline seriously as a character beat unconvincing. What, I’m supposed to critically read and analyze only part of the text? No.
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Dorothy…
i wonder who notarized it. even if she’s a notary herself surely the ettiquete is to have a diff person do so
it’s more than “etiquette”, you can get in big trouble.
Yeah, I would totally believe that Dorothy is herself a notary, AND that even if she isn’t she would know that notaries can’t notarize their own signature.
lol ohpefully its not too awkward for the notary but not everyday you get to notarize a ‘sorry i stole your childhood crush from you’ type of letter
In a town there is a notary who notarizes every notary who doesn’t notarize themselves… Paging Lord Russell…
When we were in the adoption process, there was one paper that required that a second notary notarize the first notary’s signature.
I believe that many notaries have a friend who is a notary, with whom they can exchange notarization without expending a fee.
She belongs to IU’s Notary Club. She may well have started it.
That sequence of “Becky’s Facial Expression” that seems to me to be going from “Fuck, why are YOU here” to “that’d be endearingly Dotty of you if this whole thing weren’t so fucked up” is pure art, though.
I agree but it’s so on brand for her
like I didn’t expect it but now that I’ve seen it I can’t imagine anything else
Why would she think that would make it better and not worse?
Does this call for a hater containment thread? Dorothy’s being awful annoying here.
What the hell, it’s the holidays, I’ll let it pass.
There’s no formal agreement on every page requiring a hater thread, so I’d say you’re legally allowed to take a holiday.
Such a formal agreement would have to be signed and notarized.
Is Dot a notary herself?
Even if she is, you can’t notarize your own stuff.
well Dorothy wouldn’t herself be part of the Dorothy haters thread, so she’d be ok to notarize it herself, legally speaking.
I dunno, given the book title, maybe she can get there by the end!
Hey, even if she’s being very Dorothy about this, she is trying to be undo some of the hurt this caused.
Doubt a notarized letter will work, but she is trying.
Only thing Dorothy is doing wrong here is apologising in the first place.
I’m someone with a love-hate relationship with Dorothy and I’m 100% in agreement. If anything, apologizing to Becky is like salt in the wound right now. I’d bet top dollar Becky is gonna be “it’s okay Dot, everything is fine and dandy, no apologies necessary,” mask on, and she won’t even notice it’s happening.
Plus, does she *actually know* what she’s apologizing for, or is she just assuming?
Yeah as always it feels like this “apology” is more about assuaging Dorothy’s guilty conscience than it is actually making amends for whatever harm she has caused to Becky – and really, she hasn’t done anything *wrong* there. These are complex emotions Becky is going through, and they’re really no one’s fault. What Becky needs is space from Joyce and Dorothy, professional help in processing and resolving her feelings, and other things which do not take the form of a written apology from someone who didn’t actually do anything wrong (to Becky). Perhaps Dorothy could expend this energy writing an apology letter to Walky for cheating on him instead?
Yeah, I was gonna say there’s someone who actually could use an apology right now, and Becky ain’t it! But at the same time, I don’t expect that to happen for a while. I think (read: hope) Walky is going to steep in the juices he’s in until he’s ready to blow up, and Dorothy is the most likely target.
He was actually a bit sharp with Joyce earlier, which was a nice sign, but actually getting angry with Dorothy would be a much bigger deal, since with Joyce it can just be read as part of their usual back and forth.
Probably depends on the type of hater. I’m actually cautiously optimistic that this will start getting back to the kind of story beats I crave.
YES! Be rude. Pick petty fanboy fights.
dont let DOA get boring. Get the puriteens riled
I’m not a boy.
Don’t trust rooms to be empty.
Also don’t trust empty rooms.
There could be a reason they’re empty.
I’m impressed Becky didn’t flinch.
It’s only because Becky’s been in constant cringe-flinch all this time.
See Becky, this is why you turn the light on when you go in the room.
How long had she been standing there staring blankly in the dark?
Well this could go places.
Are any of them good?
I don’t want Becky to blow up on Dorothy, but I do want her to snub Dorothy because Becky playfully ribbing people is part of how she shows affection and I really want to see her actually with a roommate she dislikes (for a bit, anyways).
When did she have time to see a notary?
Actually, it was probably prepared well in advance, wasn’t it?
Robin notarized it and she accepted a Twinkie as payment
Robin? And sugar? A dangerous combination…
I know!
But that wacky young gal’s a “professor”,
And her sanity’s only so-so…
the sad part is that’s the most plausible explanation I can think of
“Look at all the shit I did to distract myself from being a reasonable human being towards my Ex!”
There’s probably a “24-Hour Notary Store” near campus (actually many old Mail Boxes, Etc stores used to have notaries, so my snide retort wasn’t toooo far off the mark….well maybe it was…..sorry).
Formal Letter of Apology For Falling In Love With Your Best Friend… I’m pretty sure they have those pre-printed on the shelves, right above Standard Apartment Rental Agreement and just next to Application for License to Tell Fart Jokes
When I attended IU there definitely were options nearby. I had to use them a time or two.
I’m sure IU Credit Union has at least one branch office on campus. Banks and credit unions usually have several notaries on staff so there’s always one available.
Dorothy….probably not something worth signing and Notarizing.
considering she’s ‘out’ of politics/not pursuing a career like that anymore, she prolly does’t get a lot of opportunities to notarize anything
if a thing’s worth doing, it’s worth doing right
Can I get that notarized?
Old Peanuts joke.
It wasn’t worth notarizing until that front page photo got her notoriety.
No tarrying!
Damn, when’d she have time to find a notary? You gotta give Dorothy credit for attention to detail.
Sounds like a job for Lance Parkertip, Noted Notary Public! [KLICK-RUNK!]
Hey, I got that reference!
And Lance’s assistant, Hercules the Semi-wonder dog?
There’s probably an on campus bank branch. A bank is going to have a notary. Depending on the university department, there’s probably a secretary who’s a notary.
I only really know about notaries from the fact that people keep calling the library I work at looking for one, and we have to tell them that they need to go to Town Hall, where they have a notary available four hours a day, three days a week, who requires an appointment made in advance. So I assumed Dorothy would have had to jump through lots of hoops.
This is a “varies state by state and town by town” thing in my experience — every place I’ve lived where I needed a notary, I could just drop in on one (usually either a lawyer’s office or someone who just had a shingle out) except when I was in a major city, for which I needed an appointment but it was still a random guy in a legal office.
I bet Dorothy is a Notary and notarized it herself.
notarizing anything in which you have a personal interest is a big no-no.
I’m gonna go out on a limb and say that the notary is Galasso. Becoming a public notary under the vague notion that this will somehow further his plans seems like the kind of thing he’d do.
I endorse this theory because it is funny and awesome.
Dot’s notary for next bonus strip please!
And also because I’d like to see more Galasso.
Galasso’s Pizza And Subs!!! And Notary Public
Who notary the notaries?
Ya gotta get another notary.
It’s all a scam from Big Notary.
Dorothy doesn’t need to apologize. At least not to Becky.
Joyce, on the other hand…
Why would Dorothy need to apologize to Joyce?
She had a jagged nail earlier.
Ouch.
Yeah, that’s a pretty major sapphic faux pass.
Not an apology but rather a long, honest, relationship-saving talk. This is much more like when they fought over Joyce leaving the church than just romantic drama. But to cliff-note it, emotionally it looks like Becky needs to hear that she’s not being replaced or left behind, and Joyce needs to hear that she isn’t in trouble/being judged.
Now, we also know from that whole debacle that these two know each other well but are quite bad at being in conflict sooo we’ll see what it takes for them to get to some sort of resolution or if their relationship even survives this one.
as bad as I feel fir Becky; I don’t think she’s owed an apology for not getting the girl she wanted, but it’s just that Joyce could at least be a little sympathetic to her atm. If anyone needs an apology; it’s Dina, which may or may not be where Becky is going when she’s done standing in dark rooms.
Idk I still think Walky’s due one.
He’d just brush it off, though. That boy’s not alright.
Everyone’s owed an apology at this point. And when everyone’s owed an apology…..no one is. 😈
I don’t like that this objectively correct—
But this is objectively correct.
Fortunately or unfortunately, we’re only responsible for one set of apologies, and those outside that set can’t be used to cancel those inside.
That’s just… like… your opinion.
Notarized.
A circle apology?
I honestly think that an Apology would not do much for him, he KNEW this was going to happen, that Joyce and Dorothy were going to be a thing eventually, and while he is certainly in a slump and NEEDS therapy as much as the rest of the cast, I think what he needs right now is to be able to not think about it. He needs people to stop talking about it, and to let him move on in peace.
Oh i meant specifically for dorothy just letting joyce laugh in his face about it, not the sitch in general
(Yadda yadda ‘gag a day comic’ yadda yadda)
I think he is telling himself “I should have known” after the fact.
And fundamentally having reason to suspect that your partner might be shitty doesn’t absolve your partner of being shitty.
Saying “Walky knew/should have known that Dorothy would cheat on him” is kinda shifting the blame onto Walky for Dorothy’s bad actions.
In terms of apologies, I actually do think Walky would benefit from hearing “I am sorry. I treated you poorly. You deserve to be treated better” because it still kind of seems like Walky’s default response when people treat him like garbage is to go “yeah, I am garbage”.
Even knowing your partner has feelings for someone else, doesn’t mean knowing they’ll cheat on you. Even if you think they’ll leave you for them, it still doesn’t mean that.
To be fair, this was very minimal cheating, but everyone involved describes it that way.
And yes but, I don’t know if I want Dorothy to make that kind of apology. I’d rather Walky come to the “I deserve better” conclusion on his own, but I’m not sure he actually would.
To be fair to Joyce (always a danger in this forum), she TRIED to be sympathetic to Becky, but then flubbed it because she is still in early-days “everything circles back to praising my new life-love” mode. But really, she did want to set things straight with Becky.
Honestly, i wonder if she should have, contrary to the wishes of the commentariat, waited longer before trying to talk to Becky, because some sort of misstep was almost guaranteed.
Wasn’t really an option, given that they walked into Becky waiting in Joyce’s dark room for them.
Basically the biggest misstep in anything like this is the other person finding out somewhere else and realizing you were hiding it from them. There’s almost nothing you can say telling them that’s going to be worse.
The only thing they need to apologize for is how badly they fucked up the “Telling Becky about the relationship” part, that conversation was a wreck and it made things seem worse then they were.
Becky needs to go apologize to Dina though, maybe after speaking to a therapist about her being unable to move on despite having a loving relationship with somebody else.
Dorothy does not owe Becky an apology for falling in love with Joyce. But she should probably apologize for whatever the heck this nonsense is.
Does this protect one from the Love Police?
Well, that should cover it! Everything solved!
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. The last thing I wanna hear from someone who has the romantic affection of someone I like over me is that they’re sorry about it. It’s an insulting mix of arrogance and pity. Own your shit Dorothy.
Don’t trust Dorothy Keener
She’s trying. The problem is she still hasn’t figured out what her shit actually is. Dorothy knows she’s got some kind of flaw but can’t seem to actually find it.
I don’t think it’s arrogance or pity in Dorothy’s case. It’s “I truly feel like I have wronged you, and I don’t know in what way I have wronged you and I guessing it’s in this way.” It feels relatable to me
I kind of understand Dorothy slightly for her apology. It can be hard to see your friend feel bad because of your actions but apologizing and feeling sorry someone you hurt and will continue to hurt by your actions is arrogant, especially when you don’t mean it which Dorothy doesn’t.
And it’s because of the context. Dorothy has had plenty of opportunity to not date Joyce. She will continue to do so. She wasn’t feeling sorry during all the kissing and grab assing, she wasn’t feeling sorry while she spent the night with Joyce under Joe’s weighted blanket, or while Joyce and she fucked for nearly an hour. She just bought Joyce a leather jacket and is wearing a gift from her. This won’t stop anytime soon if ever. Does Becky get a notarized apology letter every time? Dorothy doesn’t mean it (which to be clear se shouldn’t) she just doesn’t want to feel bad about it.
Ohhh that’s fair, like, she’s looking for Becky to say “it’s okay actually”, and yeah and apology expecting an answer isn’t a true an apology. I thought arrogance was when you think you’re better than someone though, I genuinely don’t think Dorothy thinks she’s better than Becky, if anything her self-esteem is so shot about so many things she probably sees herself as worse than Becky.
I think you made me are just different in thought when it comes to this kind of stuff tho, if I were in Becky’s shoes I *would* want a “I’m sorry we’ve hurt you by getting together” (even though logically I don’t think I’d be owed an apology, it makes me feel like they cared about my feelings). If I was Becky I’d feel bad because it would feel like only Dorothy seems to care, as opposed to Joyce, my supposedly best friend
I agree with you about her intentions here tho – I think your right that Dorothy is trying to assuage her guilt rather than make Becky feel better
Gods, yes. Issuing random apologies is my thing. And apparently that of Gen. George Pickett of “Yeah, I used to have a division” fame, who was known for thoughtlessly abrasive comments interspaced with “I probably insulted someone in the past half hour” apologia.
Dorothy’s feeling guilt that she’s finally feeling happy while someone else is miserable. In her mind everyone should be happy, and she should be the one giving out happiness… except that’s not how it works in the real world. And her happiness with Joyce is most likely going to run out soon as it only masked a bigger problem Dotty had that manifested the second Blaine didn’t do what she expected him to do and instead ran off with Joyce. Joe’s mere existence makes her have those flashbacks so no doubt she’ll have them if he ever comes near Joyce again for their promised “talk.”
I mean; that definitely sounds like a you issue; internalizing their apology as arrogance instead of compassion or regret. In this case its that and Dorothy not knowing what the duck she’s doing for two arcs now lol
It’s not compassion or regret even if it’s meant to present that way. This is very simple logic. If Dorothy actually regretted her actions she wouldn’t be dating Joyce. What good is compassion if you’re going to continue taking actions you know will hurt the person you’re apologizing to? This apology is only for Dorothy, not to actually make Becky feel any better.
Bingo. This is all about assuaging the guilt Dorothy feels. It doesn’t give Becky a single thing she actually needs to heal.
You’re conflating two entirely different things. She can regret the fact that falling in love with Joyce hurt Becky, without at all regretting being Joyce’s ongoing girlfriend. If she stopped dating Joyce now, it would not erase the pain Becky feels that Joyce could love Dorothy in a way that she can’t and won’t love Becky. She’s not apologizing for the dating; she’s explicitly apologizing for the falling in love.
Whether it’s something she should be apologizing for is an entirely different question.
But she doesn’t actually regret falling in love with Joyce. If she could do it again, she would, and there’s no way for her to do that which doesn’t contribute to hurting Becky. She feels guilty that Becky got hurt in her finding love with Joyce, but the apology she wrote isn’t for Becky getting hurt, it’s just for her falling in love with Joyce. Nothing you’ve said here changes the fact that this apology is completely useless. Apologies mean nothing without a corresponding change in behavior, and what exactly can Dorothy change here besides not dating Joyce, which she obviously is not going to do? This apology does nothing for Becky because it’s not actually about her.
I agree with all of this. I just wanted to add that perspective of regret would also be insulting to Joyce. They’ve already hurt their friend and respective partners. Apologizing and regretting falling in love raises the question why you even bothered. Dorothy and Joyce decided together in that moment that being together was worth the strife it would cause in their relationships. Apologizing isn’t showing regret or remorse, it’s trying to have your cake and eat it too.
It’s always weird whenever we see Dorothy show clear sign of her Neuro divergence in the way she interacts with social situations, especially complicated ones, and some people insist she is being “insincere” or other negative connotation.
Fuck this was meant to be it own comment please if you see it report so it gets deleted.
At least i wanted to tell you that i agree with you cliff 👍
That’s actually very weird logic, i don’t see what is simple about that.
You don’t have to agree with me. My question to you is what does this apology actually do for Becky? How does this make Becky feel better emotionally or practically?
I’ll admit I’m wrong if Becky actually feels better from this. I want her to feel better, and if a notarized apology letter does that then good. But until then this really reads like performative cope from Dorothy because she can’t deal with someone being hurt by her actions.
I don’t see what that has to do with anything, Becky can not fell better sue to the apology and it still being sincere. Just because Dorothy do things in a kinda weid way does mean it is performative.
*doesn’t
You know what, whatever. It’s clear you and i just have incompatible views when it comes to apologies and i don’t think we can see eye to eye on it. So just disengaging from the conversation.
You don’t have to feel better just because someone apologized, no matter how sincere that apology is. It’s not an obligation.
Its a good apology. i know because Dorothy is by Joyce and cannon, the most perfect girl that ever lived.
This is the first written apology this twice kidnaped orphan ever got, from the girl who killed her God.
Think of all the Dorothys in the comments , so well meaning.
Dorothy really should be preparing an apology to Dina, for kill-stealing.
See, that’s really on Dina. She’s the one who chose a dink-and-dunk build, where she taps away at God’s HP bar with small hits to the critical targets; it’s not Dorothy’s fault that she walked into the same boss chamber with the one-hit-tactical-nuke build specifically tailored to kill that one boss! There are no private servers in this game! It’s not even an instanced dungeon!
Now that you mention it, it reminds me of the code of competitiveness in fighting games. If you beat me, you take your win and shake my hand and say good game. Do not apologize for beating me. That is condescending and it suggests either you don’t “deserve” to win over me, or I should have beaten you, which reminds me that I didn’t at the time that I want to hear that the least.
Those are neither of the things Dorothy fell. She is being completely sincere about it.
inb4 she says ‘at least you still have dina!’
Well sure, as long as it’s notarized.
Oh, Dorothy, you are… a disaster.
Also the matching bangs are really obvious here, huh.
Extremely obvious, yes.
i mean even if she is intentionally copying, there’s only so many unique things you can do with bangs/hairstyles (buti dk if she’s gonna start’ acting’ like dorothy like how sarah started acting ‘cheery’ and jacob thought she was imitating lucy), idk if ppl would’ve thought it if she like, turned it blue/pink or so (i imagine if she still working at galasso’s she’d have some saved up)
Where to begin?
Lights off, not good.
Becky’s expressions, not good. … oh, lost her eyes in her bangs in panel 2, missed that she was looking back/to the side and thought she’d just shut them in a moment of “God, what now?” (Which would be quite understandable.)
I’m a notary, and I can’t imagine being asked to sign off on a document like that.
But you would do it if you were paid?
I mean, notaries don’t have to agree with what they’re notarizing or think it’s a good/bad idea. Their only job is to be there and confirm it’s been signed.
…and that the signers are who they say they are. Forgot to mention that part.
I’ve never charged a fee, it’s more (all) about the pure “wtf” (played up for comic effect, I acknowledge).
“You want me to notarize a what?“
Since you are a notary, I’m going to go ahead and horrify you with a trick I was taught by a woman I know. When she needs someone else’s signature on a document notarized, rather than trying to set-up a three way date with that person and the notary, she goes to the notary herself at her convenience, writes “This is an original document” on the document, signs that declaration, and gets the declaration notarized. The counter-party can sign the document also at her convenience either before or after she does this. The end results looks exactly like the counter-party signature was notarized, even though it wasn’t. This is technically fraud, depending on the document, it can be felony fraud, but apparently risking felony fraud is more convenient than fitting another person into her schedule. I once watched her do it with a pre-signed document and saw the notary visibly hesitate before agreeing to do it. You would think there would be a way to like draw a square around a specific signature and say you’re only notarizing that one.
oh God
well, you weren’t wrong about the horrifying part.
Yeah, it’s such an elegant bit of loophole abuse, but it fundamentally perverts and subverts the point of having a notary involved.
Is that even loophole abuse? I think it’s just regular fraud/forgery.
I understand (possibly misunderstand) that a notary keeps a log book of the things they have notarized. I would think it would be prudent to make a note in the log that one signature was missing, in case they are later called to testify in court.
Ninety nine and nine/tenths of the time this isn’t going to make a bit of difference, but that other tenth of a percent will kill you.
dorothy is an absolute mess
i assume she’d get over it unless it ends up into her guilt breaking up with joyce
Highly doubt that guilt is going to get her to break up with Joyce… Joe coming back, on the other hand…
I’m not sure that being an absolute mess is something you ever get over.
I mean, it would be nice to think there’s still hope for me, but the evidence suggests otherwise.
I really dislike how Dorothy and Joyce are enabling Becky’s idea that she’s owed Joyce instead of simply talking to her.
Solid point. If they weren’t acting like they’d somehow taken Joyce from Becky she’d probably be feeling a lot less messed up about it.
It’s almost like teenagers under unfamiliar social pressure make judgement errors.
Luckily, none of these three girls are sheltered at all. Even better, Joyce and Dorothy totally understand, and are adept at navigating, social situations with complexities and subtleties! Otherwise, this would get really awkward and painful, like, nearly immediately.
My theory is that they’re putting all their energy towards Becky because they subconsciously know they didn’t *really* do anything wrong to her (besides getting caught in her room) which means they can more easily shake off the guilt. This also makes it easier to ignore the shame of confronting the people they actually hurt.
This is 100% on Becky for a passive aggressive campaign of faux rivalry, that never stood a chance.
They got caught in Joyce’s room.
No, I really don’t think this is it. I think that’s actually not giving them enough credit.
Everybody keeps focusing on whether or not Dorothy and Joyce “actually did anything wrong” by Becky; I think this is the wrong point to focus on. Yes, both of them do feel bad; I just think, even with their many misunderstandings, both of them have taken Becky’s reaction so seriously purely because they know how bad this will make her feel, and why.
Yes, they want to apologize and make things better, but I really believe that’s less because they feel culpable of wrong-doing to Becky, and more because they know Becky well enough to recognize,:
A) that actualizing the potential that Joyce likes girls will trigger Becky’s latent trauma over loving Joyce
B) that actualizing the reality of Dorothy and Joyce dating will trigger Becky’s latent anxiety that she will have her connection to Joyce supplanted, and will thus be abandoned, and that
C) anything that makes Becky feel like a loved one is abandoning her, activates her trauma about losing her family.
Maybe I’m wrong about this, but I really believe they haven’t been most scared about dealing with Becky’s reaction, because they are such numbskulls that they think they’ve wronged her by breaking any social rules; they’re scared of dealing with Becky’s reaction, because they know her well enough to know that this is the exact worst possible outcome for making her spiral out of control of her life, possibly to the point of severe consequences; but they also know that, because this has happened, she will want space from them to process the hurt, which means neither of them can obsessively hover around her, to make sure she’s not in danger of hurting herself, because obviously their very presence will be a severe stressor to Becky.
In short, they’re having trouble navigating the facts that their actions caused Becky to be in great pain, that there’s nothing they can do to prevent Becky feeling the absolute worst about this, and there’s nothing they can do to help, which won’t make it worse; but, they can’t reconcile the obvious solution (give Becky space and time), with the very real reality that Becky may legitimately be in danger right now, and definitely needs the attention and support of her closest friends more than ever.
Every solution that one would normally employ after they caused someone to have hurt feelings, let alone triggering obvious emotional trauma, cannot work here, because what Becky needs from them is to leave her the fuck alone; but, leaving Becky the fuck alone with these feelings, is also an obviously wrong thing to do. That’s actually not an easy situation for Joyce and Dorothy to navigate, and navigating it imperfectly is to be expected.
Let alone that I haven’t even touched on the reality that this creates real, practical problems in the immediate sense. How the fuck is Dorothy supposed to give Becky space, when they literally live together? But, Joyce and Dorothy are willing to go to great lengths to accommodate that; it’s the fear of Becky’s inevitable breakdown or crashout that they don’t have a solution for.
So is Dot just gonna be staying over at Joyce’s until things cool down a bit again cuz like.. Is Sarah just ment to be cool with an extra roommate?
Like I guess it’s not like she’s not used to Joyce bringing a plus one but that feels like wildely different circumstances
Oh she’s definately not ‘cool’ with it
Are you under the impression that Doyce would ever consider their impact on other people?
I mean, it’s clear they’ll CONSIDER it, and then do whatever they were going to do anyway and just “Feel performatively bad about it (Dorothy)”/”assert they have every right to do it (Joyce)”.
Sarah continues to have the worst luck with roommates
well they did say they had ‘sleepovers’ before so idk how much in the way she’d get versus dorothy going out of her way to find a spare place to stay
Well, they were definitely getting more in the way last night. They weren’t as quiet as they thought they were being.
….ah. sô how did the rest of’the class go ?
i imagine she just sat quietly through it instead of trying to ‘debate/debunk’ any other students/the prof talking through it
maybe not the best timing but i’m sure some ppl wouldn’t mind a letter of apology that way
I get why Becky is impacted by Dorothy/Joyce, I get why that’s a bridge to far and put her in a bad place and I dont actually think Becky is in the wrong for feeling that way.
That being said Dorothy/Joyce didnt wrong Becky by getting together. It was an action they took that hurt Becky as a result but its not on them to avoid ther relationship to avoid that hurt for her.
Now the messaging and the way Becky found out could have been handled a little more tactfully. But I dont fault Doyce because their getting together caused Becky distress.
I DO fault Doyce for their treatment of Joe/Walky/most people but that’s a separate gripe.
Yea I dont think Joyce needs to apologize for falling in love with someone else, Becky doesnt own her, but I do think Joyce should be the one sending someone to check on her and stuff. Shes her best friend, not Dorothy. Especially after Becky tried to cover for her with her dad.
That’s a really good point, idk I know Dorothy is a very awkward bean but at least she’s doing something and seems to care. I think Joyce does too, but we get three panels here and there of her being like 🙁 vs Dorothy at least trying to do something about it, flawed though it may be
Yeeeee… Like it’s cool Dot wants to apologize but this isn’t the thing she has to apologize for. You have zero control over who you’re attracted to.
The way her and Joyce have been acting on that attraction, and the ramifications it’s had on their entire friendgroup is the real issue
I think this was probably the most painless way possible.
She was in a another relationship.
everything else would have been a lot of slights, and fights and sneaking around.
OH DAMN you Willis, this is what you took from us. We could have had a whole winter of Doyce two-timing Joe and walky. All that lost drama,
You can do it Becky. You can rid us of our Dorothy problem once and for all.
Becky should explode Dorothy with her lesbian eye lazers that all lesbians have for real
That seems a little extreme. I’m all for it. Send the whole comic right off the rails, it’d be hilarious!
Do it Becky. Then dye your hair and take Dorothy’s place.
Given that the teargas wedding already sent the comic off the rails, would a second derailing somehow result in it getting back on the rails?
I wouldn’t think so.
Ideally it would set us up for a glorious third derailing, but only when we least expect it.
That better be a Form 27B/6
Joyce breaks into their room using Harry Tuttle’s gear
Years ago I had to get a document selling some stocks notarized. It noted that for amounts over $14,000,000 an ordinary notary was not enough you needed some kind special super-duper-notary’s seal instead.
Sounds like a medallion signature guarantee.
That’s such a weird number to make the cut-off at.
I don’t think that’s the number, but I’d have to look into it or ask someone else to get an accurate answer.
You two are right. I dug out the form and the medallion is required for over $10,000. I was misremembering the line:
“If the value of the shares you are transferring exceeds $14 million, or if you have any questions, please contact us online through the “Contact Us” section of the website.”
I hope she’s working on Walky’s apology letter. That better be 2 full pages, at least.
i think she’d know walky wouldn’t even read half a paragraph of that and just buy him a figure or something, well, idk if he collects figures as much as ethan does other htan the one he threw at dorothy’s head
It’s the thought that counts.
If she’s as smart as the cast believes, she’ll stay the fuck away from Walky until the heat dies down. Unfortunately, her desire to seek exoneration through procedure means she’ll probably convince herself that she can confront Walky in a way that’ll end with him saying none of this was actually her fault. I can’t think of a single time in the webcomic that this strategy has worked out for her, but fuck it we ball.
The Washington Generals of apologies.
4 pages. Single spaced. Because single spaced lines are the only appropriate way to show contrition through writing.
There is absolutely no letter forthcoming.
No chill Dorothy is also my favorite.
Crazy for Becky to get an apology from Dorothy before Joe. Where’s the honest “sorry for cheating and stealing your girl” written apology? At least that would get the potential polycule conversation rolling
i don’t think her and joe have talked but joe told joyce he was ok with ‘sharing’ but idk if theyr’e still technically ‘together’
Dotty is still under the impression that Joyce and Joe broke up. Yeah its fine that Joe is cool with the girls smoochingand being together, but Dot doesn’t know that, and hasn’t spoken to Joe since the time he confronted her about the spicy pics she sent to Joyce
Joyce is also under the impression she and Joe broke up.
It could be because she said “I have to break up with you, Joe.”
It’s not entirely clear what Joyce thinks. She said that, but he made a counteroffer, introducing the idea that she doesn’t have to.
Then the last time she mentioned him she still called him her boyfriend and had a weird look when Dorothy corrected her to “ex-boyfriend”. I don’t think she’s said anything about him since then.
last time Dorothy was talking to Joe, she was accusing him of having not earned anything (read: having no character development) and of being a cheater- an accusation that’s just rich coming from her given the events to follow, and directed at a man who’s never been in a committed relationship specifically because he doesn’t want to do what his father did. a man who came to talk to her in the first place to check on someone whom he considered a friend, going so far as to tell that same friend to be honest about the feelings she was having for his own girlfriend
and I don’t recall them talking meaningfully since
I like Dorothy (she’s my favorite mess and the truest example of even the best of us don’t have it all figured out) but that rant about Joe earning nothing keeps bringing me back.
What exactly has she struggled for? She wanted Walky, she got Walky. She wanted them to break up, they broke up. She wanted Walky again, she got him again. She wanted Harvard, she got Harvard (ironically after deciding she no longer wanted it). She secretly pined and wanted Joyce, she has Joyce now.
Yale. Yale.
She wanted Yale.
Why did my brain say Harvard?
Whoops my reply was the same time you edited.
Next Semester: harvard!
I think it was Yale, not Harvard.
I didn’t read that conversation as her accusing him of being a cheater. She said that her (at the time) minimal cheating made her no better than him, but I read that as referencing Old Joe’s overall behavior to women – the list, objectification, harassment, etc. That they were both equivalently bad, not that he’d done the same thing.
Dorothy doesn’t owe Joe an apology, but Joyce did promise to go talk to him again and she’s neglected that quite completely at this point. Joyce owes Joe an apology for that, and I’d say she owes Walky an apology for being a complete ass towards him about it all.
Becky owes Joyce an apology for acting like she had ‘dibs’, especially when she already has Dina. And Becky owes Dina an apology for making her feel like a backup option.
Dorothy and Becky though? I’m glad they’re talking and not fighting. I really don’t want their friendship to break under this weight. Especially after their conversation the other night which was one of my favorite Becky moments ever.
she could at least apologize for calling him a cheater when he’s never cheated and she has. with his girlfriend, no less
No, you see, that would mean Joe isn’t a bad person.
ah yes, clearly that’s just crazy talk, how silly of me
Dorothy really would like Joe to be someone she can look down upon, which is something she is aware isn’t fair but has been a hidden disdain she’d held for a long time.
Yeah, mostly because Joe was far all the years she’s known him someone she could look down on. It’s only very recently he’s changed and she can be forgiven for catching on to (or believing in) the changes he was mostly hiding until even more recently.
She never called him a cheater; she said that if she cheated she’d be as bad as him.
Yeah, lots of people have a strange read on that exchange. Probably because of how Joe replied?
Ehhh, I’d say an apology from Dorothy is appropriate.
Did Dorothy treat Joe decently? No. She encouraged his partner to cheat on him. Joyce did worse, but Dorothy also did bad.
An apology towards people you hurt is appropriate when you mess up.
@Tessea I recommend checking out the tagged archive. Joe and Dorothy’s last interaction wasn’t the greatest and Joe is 100% deserving of a conversation, apologetically or even to check up on someone who was considered a friend of Dorothy’s
https://www.dumbingofage.com/tag/joe/page/5/
Becky already told her not to apologize
In Dorothy’s eyes Joe is the evil sex-crazed horndog that would ruin fair, innocent Joyce. Dorothy has no intention of ever SPEAKING to him, let alone APOLOGIZE to him. And I’m sure Dorothy would do everything in her power to make sure Joe never gets within 50 feet of Joyce until they graduate. I don’t think Dotty would rub her relationship in Joe’s face like Joyce is doing with Walky, but I think Dotty would rather write a thousand apology notes to Becky than say two words to Joe.
I think Dorothy realized that was mostly her jealousy of Joe talking. She doesn’t hate Joe, she just isn’t that close to him.
She did think so and she had good reason to think that way. That was in fact Joe’s original intent with Joyce, way back when: to fix her with his penis.
She’s basically gotten over it, though I doubt she’s likely to be friends with anytime soon.
Dorothy, you should know better than this for Becky.
She thinks getting things notarized is rather gauche
You have to wonder if Dorothy’s ever apologized for anything in her life without desperately needing it to not *really* be her fault
politician, remember
The Orson Welles tirade against Woody Allen comes to mind
well that ended up being a hell of a read, so thanks for that. personally I always framed it as “flagellation is an inherently masturbatory act”
but admittedly not everyone has an appetite for them five-dollar words
That rant unlocked so many character motivations for me personally. Orson absolutely had the sadboys’ number.
I legitimately don’t think avoiding responsibility is Dorothy’s style. It seems like her style is more to structure it into a “Rulebook for Right Action”.
“I hurt someone. The proper thing to do when one hurts someone is to apologize. I will schedule some time to write an apology.”
But it’s also way easier to apologize for something if, deep down, you don’t think you’ve done anything wrong.
Because, objectively speaking, Dotty *didn’t* do anything wrong. Becky is not owed Joyce’s love or even friendship.
And so the apology is easy because it’s totally just for Becky. Whereas I think she’d have a much harder time apologizing to Walky because boy did she do him dirty there.
I think it’s subconscious on Dorothy’s part, I don’t think she’s conscious of how this apology is entirely performative, but yeah, this apology is entirely performative.
Oh hey that last sentence lined up really nicely.
Yup, agreed. Dorothy didn’t do anything wrong to Becky. Did some stuff wrong in other ways, but not anything that Becky deserves an apology over.
I’d say the main thing Dorothy messes up on is by being performative in ways that are not helpful:
– “Moment of Silence for Mike”
– “Apologize to Asma”
I am inclined to think that her heart is in the right place, it is just that the thinks of problems as something that she personally should solve. So when she isn’t the right person to solve them she screws up.
Dorothy, why are you apologizing for something you wanted and intend to keep doing? The point of saying “I’m sorry” is to communicate “this is isn’t what I wanted”. It’s why you say “I’m sorry I lied” or “I’m sorry your mother died”, you are telling the other person that the thing that happened is not what you want to have happened. You should apologize for hurting Becky, not for falling in love with her best friend. It’s entirely valid to wish that you could have fallen in love with Joyce without hurting Becky, it’s not valid to act like you wish you wouldn’t have fallen in love with Joyce, because you are clearly pretty happy that it happened.
You’re right, and I’d like to think–since Dorothy is fairly thoughtful–that a lot of that distinction is covered in more detail in the letter. But it’s also in Dorothy’s personality to feel misplaced shame and regret over the aspects of this situation that she doesn’t actually owe an apology for.
(Plus, I grant some suspension of disbelief for the fact that sometimes things have to be sort of oversimplified to fit into chat bubbles)
The problem is Dorothy is looking for exoneration, not forgiveness. Dorothy can’t cope with the idea that she hurt people while following her heart, so she apologizes in ways that’ll coax the wronged party into giving her permission to keep doing it. Naturally, she’s got a form for that.
It could be an apology, not for the fact that it happened, but in the manner of how it happened.
We haven’t read the letter yet, after all.
*Is* she happy that it happened? She tried really hard to push it away and push it down and deny it. Nothing I’ve seen of her so far has indicated falling in love with Joyce was something Dorothy would have chosen, if she could choose who to fall in love with. It’s true that she isn’t resisting anymore and is happy to be with Joyce and isn’t planning to stop, but I wouldn’t say that necessarily means she’s “happy that it happened.” To use an analogy, I’m transitioning and I’m happy to be doing so and enjoying what’s happening and I have no plans to stop, but I’m not Happy That I’m Trans. I would not have chosen to be trans if I had the option. And I really haven’t seen any evidence that falling in love with Joyce is actually something Dorothy wanted.
Dorothy I don’t think you needed to specifically mention the underwear.
Jon my good bud, you’re the only one making that weird.
Underwear needs changing every day, so you need more of it after spending a night away from home. It wasn’t a comment about her boinking Joyce.
lol nah, Dorothy’s the one making it weird, she involved a notary in her elaborate apology. Compared to that I think a lil’ Freudian slip makes perfect sense.
Dorothy is making the apology weird. You made the mention of underwear weird.
This brings up an interesting point. Do Freudian slips ever count as underwear?
What about freudian lingerie?
A Freudian Slip if you will~
note: this joke only works in dutch
Nah, it works in English too- I’ve definitely heard “slip” be used for underwear before.
Now this is the Dorothy I know and love. Hopefully we see her give Walky one too. (even though I believe Billie was mistaken when she essentially told Dorothy that Walky’s heart was in their brief rebound as much as it it’d been in their initial relationship, it would still be in character for Dorothy to do this [plus Joyce being a bongo about the situation still warrants an apology regardless of Walky’s feelings]).
(Yes I went ahead and wrote ‘bongo’ because I knew the filter would change it.)
Dear, dear Dorothy…when people said you needed help, they did not mean from a notary public!
Yeah, but… nah, but…
What is with Becky’s eyes in panel 2? Are they shut? That looks great, an OFFS look. But then 2 circles, displaced from where eyes should be…
Are they open, smaller than usual, moved to Becky’s right and have lines under them?? What kind of expression would that be?
(Gets phone out and enlarges, yep, those are eyes)
for what it’s worth, I went through almost this exact same progression.
Yeah, me too…
Except all I could think was; ‘couldn’t decide if he wanted small eyes of shock, or closed eyes of “moment before broken peace”… and forgot to erase one of ’em’ !
that looks like your standard “oh shit how long have you been standing behind me” right there
Ohhhh, I just love Dorothy so much!
Come on girls. Talk it out a bit. It’s not the solution, but it can be a start for bettering Becky’s mental health. GoGoGO!
….notarised by who
she went down to city hall and found a particularly bored and amused civil servant.
I’m sorry I fell in love with your best friend,
it was months befire I even realized
And if I had a choice
I’d go again for Joyce
Now here’ s a letter, signed and notarized
I need more verses here, folks
Now you’ve got me thinking about the poem about the plums that were in the icebox.
Bother, if I’d given the first line some more thought, you could sing this to “Always look on the bright side of life”
I wonder if this will drive home to Becky that she needs to, for lack of a better term, get over it and go back to Dina
Maybe they should date other people. It was a rebound relationship. Becky taught Dina a lot. walky is single.
Becky has unresolved feelings and that can take time.
Does Dina want her back?
That’s SO Dorothy
OMG. Dina appears in Questionable Content comic 3766!
And not for the first time, I believe.
Great…. Now, kiss.
I wonder if Dorothy thought to write similar letters of apology to Walky and Joe, the people her and Joyce were actually dating and cheated on when they got together. Or did she only have this level of consideration for a person neither of them were dating?
The latter. She’s perfectly fine with Joyce’s ‘FUCK OFF MINE NOW HAHAHA LOSER HAHAHA’ to Walky on her behalf, and she claimed to love him. Joe she hates so consideration was never going to be a thing.
Only people who were not in fact wronged, like Asma and Becky, get apologies.
Dorothy has a dark side.She wants to be a good person, while sacrificing other people to her ambitions.
But shes not willing to be a social climber like Raidah.
I have dated
the girl
that was in
your icebox
and who
you were probably
saving
for breakfast
Forgive me
she was delicious
so sweet
and so cold
I generally am not into poetry but this is amazing.
For reference:
https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/56159/this-is-just-to-say
When you have a signed document in your possession, you can’t go wrong.
Who the hell agreed to notarize that?
Are there many standards around what can and cannot be notarized?
My impression was that literally all notary’s did was affirm that the person signing the document was indeed the person they claimed to be.
Which is one of the reasons why you shouldn’t trust someone just because they have a notarized document. The notary isn’t certifying that the document is legitimate, just that the person signing it was that person and wasn’t coerced.
I’ll add that this is an example of a big Dorothy blindspot. She thinks something being official makes it better, but ignores the actual purpose.
Comparing her to Robin:
Robin makes something official to make other people trust it, even when it is BS.
Dorothy makes something official because that makes Dorothy value it more, even if it gives nothing to other people.
Dorothy tends to be acted upon by the system rather than act on the system.
Oh, Dotty.
…I’m still eating popcorn, but in a like. Melancholy way.
Dotty…
NOTARIZED BY WHOM????
The school admin likely has a notary somewhere….
The funnier answer though would be Asma.
Pretty much any bank or public library will have a notary on staff.
At least she’s trying to be nice about this.
Contrast this to getting in Walky’s face and going “I WIN, HAHAHAHA!”
Any bets that this was already written out, and she left the signature and date blank?
Jesus Christ, Dorothy
I don’t actually think the new haircut looks much like Dotty’s, unless dotty is wearing a hat. It feels too short to me, any similarities feels like an art style thing to me. But Willis themself said its single white femaleing dotty so I guess it’s a me thing
Its probably hard to see cuz the room’s dark but Dot is actually wearing a hat right now /j
You don’t know what I’m wearing!
But we get to assume all kinds of things.
People who say Dotty is a mess right now just aren’t seeing it.
A handwritten, signed, notarized letter of apology is THE MOST Dorothy way to apologize. She’s doing fine!
Falling feels like flying before you hit the ground
Dorothy, you used the correct letter structure, so that’s good. But you used APA format for your citations, and MLA is the proper format for apology letters. You need to rewrite it.
please. Hug.
Yeah seems legit
Becky: Do you have any actual regrets?
Dorothy: Well know…
Becky: Then it’s a crappy apology.
That is not how that works 😊
Yes, because I said well know not well no because I was distracted by a kitten running past me.
Dorothy does have actual regrets, though? This is such a weird take. Dorothy regrets that her actions hurt Becky at bare minimum. Without knowing the meat of the apology, there’s no way to know what else she might feel genuinely regretful for.
This just feels like you making up things to be annoyed at Dorothy about.
autism… 💕💕💕
Trying to guess what the appropriate response is in any given situation. Gotta love it.
And it’s even more fun when there are two or more parties involved who are undiagnosed.
Happy there are people here who GETS it.
…anyway this strip is delightful, Dorothy is delightful in it. Continue to really enjoy this storyline!
Also just gonna reiterate that I personally think it’s pretty clear that Dorothy and Joyce are so apologetic to Becky because she’s the one they actually know is upset. Joyce now has some indication that Walky might be upset, but Dorothy certainly doesn’t.
(Like, yeah, Jennifer once told Dorothy that she underestimates the hold she has over Walky, but one of Jennifer’s most established character traits is her poor judgment of people and situations. She’s not always wrong about everything, and there are certain domains where her expertise shines through, but even though she’s known Walky forever, she’s still often wrong when she tries to tell other characters how he’s feeling.
Not always! But often. As a reader, I can tell the difference between when Jennifer is telling us something she’s meant to know and when she’s not, but if I were a character in-universe, and I thought I KNEW I didn’t have much of a hold over Walky, I’m not at all sure I’d take Jennifer, specifically, telling me otherwise very seriously.)
Man I might be misremembering the exact events around Walky getting together with Amber or Dorothy, but I thought Jennifer took credit for one of them because she thought she saw Walky with a hopeless crush and was entirely wrong. I think Dorothy? And then I think maybe Joyce did the exact same thing of trying to help get him together with Amber…
If I’m wrong and it was someone else who tried to take credit with setting Walky and Dorothy up, my bad, I’ll downgrade Jennifer from “often” wrong to “sometimes” wrong about him specifically! But even if she was always, always right about Walky, it would still be fair for most characters to doubt her judgment on him. Especially characters other than, like, Sal, because most characters haven’t actually witnessed Jennifer being RIGHT about Walky, heh.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2018/comic/book-9-comic/02-but-the-sun-still-shines/relentlessly-2/
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/05-saturdays-all-right-for-slighting/genius/
Thanks! That’s about how I remembered them 🙂
I think the issue is that an apology isn’t really what makes it right for Becky.
Let’s say you ask your crush out and they reject you. You feel sad. That makes sense. Which would make you feel better:
a) Spending time with friends who like you
b) Your crush apologizing for not going out with you
Becky needs support, and is going through stuff with a lot more weight to it than just a regular rejection, but Dorothy and Joyce are still kinda the worst possible people to be giving that support because they are a big part of the cause of Becky’s pain. That doesn’t mean they wronged Becky, but it does mean that for a little bit their presence might hurt.
Sometimes people aren’t who you want them to be. That can cause pain, but it isn’t other people’s fault if they don’t align with your desires. The healing process doesn’t need an apology, it needs time away from them doing things to reaffirm your own self worth.
What would be best for Becky, IMO, would be to go talk to Leslie.
I mean, I didn’t say this apology was the right thing to do for Becky, or helpful!
I said it makes sense that Dorothy and Joyce are so focused on Becky’s feelings, that’s all.
You’re not wrong. It makes sense for Joyce and Dorothy AND it also isn’t a helpful behavior.
Right, but I continue to not have in any way argued that it was helpful, heh.
That is because my statement was a Continuation not a Contradiction.
You said A, and I said B. Not everything is an argument.
You said you think “the issue” is that the apology was bad, but my top-level was commenting about how I personally find it understandable it is that Dorothy and Joyce have been so focused on Becky’s feelings, because I don’t think Dorothy especially really knows that Walky is hurting right now.
So, I mean, it seemed like an argument to me, but either way it’s not really relevant to my comment.
Honestly, the best heuristic for whether Jennifer is correct or not is “Is the person she’s opining about as emotionally immature and/or stuck in high school as she can be at her worst? Then she’s probably right.”
Pff. I think that’s a LITTLE mean, but not necessarily wrong.
I also think we in the comments are a little harsh about these kids being stuck in high school — we kind of can’t help it, because high school was 15 years ago in our time, but Jennifer was in high school less than six months ago…
On the other hand: I think no one is in a bigger rush to be “over high school” than college freshman.
I’d go so far as to say one of those notes this strip has ALWAYS been spot-on about is that there are three kinds of college freshmen:
– trying to be over high school, and mostly succeeding.
– trying to be over high school, but not really succeeding.
– absolutely not over high school, and trying to make college high school round 2 in some way.
I do feel like it’s actually pretty fair to characterize Jennifer as being stuck in 3 for most of the strip and somewhere closer to 2 nowadays.
Well, you seem to feel more neutrally about being stuck in high school than a lot of commenters I’ve read express the opinion, haha. There’s been a pretty continuous thread of “it’s really weeeeeird how much these characters still care about high school”. 😉
I don’t peg any of them as still caring directly about high school except Jennifer (a lot), Dorothy (in context with her high school classmates Joe/Danny who are also here, whose growth she often doubts), Walky/Sal (to the extent it influences their relationship with Jennifer), or Amber (it’s the trauma!)
It’s less the-main-cast-apart-from-Jennifer and more “why does LUCY think it’s cool that Jennifer was a cheerleader, cringe”, as an example. 🙂
I think whether Walky is upset or not is immaterial. Dorothy cheated on him. That is a wrong she committed against him, and she should apologize for it. She frankly should be interacting with Becky as little as possible right now, not doing this vaudeville routine with a notarized apology. She and Joyce are not who Becky needs to be seeing right now.
Well, she clearly wasn’t intending to interact with Becky right now, since, as she says, she came by because she thought Becky was out. Presumably she was either going to give her the letter later or mail it to her.
Yes, that’s why she should just immediately leave instead of interacting with her. The letter should not come into play at all.
Gosh, holy replies, Batman! (Not a complaint. 🙂 Just not used to getting this much of a response.)
I will say: I wrote a bit of a defense up there for Dorothy NOT checking in on Walky, but I also think it’s too early to say that “check in on Walky” isn’t on her agenda for the day — as Astariel notes, Dorothy was actually trying to avoid Becky, but also happened to have written up (and somehow notarized) an official apology for her. We definitely don’t know for sure that she hasn’t also written (and notarized) an official apology for Walky.
But I can also very easily imagine that Dorothy’s current plan re: Walky is “give him space”.
The last time they broke up, Dorothy tried for a “more distant without making things too weird” approach, which backfired (Walky immediately clocked it as super weird when she called him David). In terms of a character who definitely collates spreadsheets of past attempts at things and their outcomes, it would make sense to me if she’s going to try something different this time — and probably something every bit as cringey and awkward, because that seems to be her usual in social situations, heh.
Maybe Dorothy has just decided to keep a stack of apologies ready, just in case.
I think it’s certainly possible that she’s written up a LOT of apology letters over the years, but I don’t agree that she has a stack of them. I’m sure they’re all very specific to the incidents in question. Like, if she has a letter for Joe, I’m sure it’s fully distinct from the letter for Becky, apart from including some form of ill-advised sorry-I-fell-in-love-with-someone-you-also-love in there.
Also delighted by this strip
Very foot in mouth
Dorothy is so much more fun lately, a fun mess of a character
Exactly!!
This sad wet cat of a young woman…! Look at her pratfall into every social situation.
As Dot said whether or not Walky is upset or not is immaterial but also Dorothy not knowing it also (seemingly) somewhat due to her own lack of care/followthrough on the topic. Given that the last time she saw him Joyce was literally rubbing what they did into his face and after that they simply havent’t spoken on the matter.
I could be wrong and if I am by all means please correct me but I don’t think she’s even reached out to him since
I mean, I do think a biiiig part of that is that the author had an intended read of the “nyahaha Dorothy’s mine” strip which landed with about half of the people who commented that day, and DEEPLY did not land for the other half.
Like, if Dorothy had processed what Joyce was doing the same way half the readership did, absolutely it would make sense for her to apologize for it — heck, it would make sense for her to have take Joyce to task for it.
But. Well, she clearly didn’t process it that way. She clearly processed it as part and parcel of Joyce and Walky’s usual dynamic, which is something she’s almost always stayed out of on both sides. (She’s only actually asked Walky to cut out his half of their bickering rivalry once, and I think she’s only really acknowledged Joyce’s half of it once or twice.)
Which, don’t get me wrong, you have my sympathy, but I don’t think it’s productive to hold Dorothy accountable for not being apologetic about something that wasn’t supposed to be all that mean.
I just don’t think you can do Joyce and Walky’s usual dynamic anymore, at least not for a long while. The context has changed, and I think that was very clearly demonstrated a few strips ago. I’m sure Willis didn’t intend that strip with Joyce yanking Dorothy away as anything malicious on Joyce’s part, but – oh well, that’s in the text now, and I think it’s very easy to see how it could be read as such.
I mean, I would say my calling it an opinion shared by 50% of the commenters was leaving a LOT of room for it being “easy to see how it could be read as such”!
I just think the two readings (“that was a super messed up thing for Joyce to do to Walky” and “that was par for the course of their relationship thus far”) are incompatible. If we agree that Willis intended the latter reading, then expecting the narrative to conform to the former is just… unlikely to yield results.
That’s why I said I don’t think it’s productive to hold Dorothy accountable for not being apologetic about it. Not that I don’t think it’s “fair” or a “valid reading” of the text, just that I think it’s setting yourself up for a lot of frustration in the future.
I fucking wish people stop thinking of ways in which Dorothy is actually bad or duplicitous for the apology note when it is a very well established thing that she does completely sincerely because she is kinda, absolutely, autistic.
I don’t think her sincerity or lack thereof is the issue.
Sonce i seen you are receptive to this kind of ask, dot could please don’t reply to my comments. I been trying my best to avoid interacting with you as much as i can and i like if you do the same. I just, don’t vibe with you honestly, and o fell you could fell the same way so i think it be better for both of us.
Absolutely, I’ll try to remember that going forward. Have a great day!
You may not. Others, however, clearly do.
Ok? And?
I think Jon just means: Namadás was complaining about something OTHER people have been saying.
Yeah “If this doesn’t describe you it isn’t about you” kind of thing.
Does Becky have friends other than Joyce, Dorothy, and Dina? I don’t remember her interacting with much of the rest of the cast.
I do want to see her hang out with ethan, however. They can be sad and gay together.
She takes church trips with Lucy, at least.
Becky has been friendly with everyone she has met thus far in her dorm wing. I think looking in the archives its fair to say Sarah, Joe, Lucy, Ruth, Asma, Walky, Amber and even Sal are still core friends she has good ties with.
I’m trying to think of people that she could actually go to with emotional distress.
Like Walky has some support sometimes from Sal, Jennifer, and even Booster.
Joe is friends with Danny (who’d probably love a sincere conversation about feelings… good lord I want to see this now), and Dina, and maybe even Sarah at this point.
Dina is friends with Amber, and Joe, and maybe Sarah (+probably best parents).
But if Becky were upset and needed someone to talk to I think the best bet would be Leslie or Robin (I also want to see this now. Robin advice is very entertaining).
I think what’d be best for Becky, Walky *and* Joe atp would be to have friends outside the main group, go decompress and be away from Joyce and Dorothy for a while.
It’s wild how much I’ve soured on Dorothy over the past few years. She used to be the one I’d go to bat for in terms of her motivations, where I’d be like “yeah, but she means well” when she screwed up, and now…yeah, I don’t much do that anymore.
Because I think this is an entirely performative apology and I don’t think Dorothy even realizes it. She’s apologizing to Becky instead of Walky because it’s easier for her to do so when, deep down, she doesn’t actually think she did anything wrong. Which, honestly, she didn’t! Not to Becky. And so apologizing to her is entirely about placating Becky’s feelings and means Dorothy doesn’t have to do any self-reflection along the lines of “hey, maybe hooking up with Walky only to dump him like two days later was a shitty thing to do”
I mean less hooking up with Walky and the getting with Joyce, that’s fairly victimless all told. What she did wrong with Walky was *getting back into a romantic relationship with him* and then *cheating on him with Joyce*. She didn’t have to do that. No one forced her to.
I mean, that’s pretty much what I meant, I just phrased it lazily because it’s ground we’ve all treaded a thousand times.
Dorothy wants to have moral superiority over everyone but lost it and can’t deal with it.
Fuck off.
^Guy who’s up and down every comment section boasting about how much they enjoy cringey, emotionally messy characters when other commenters correctly clock cringe, emotional messiness
I think it’s the most interesting Dorothy plot in years.
I actually don’t have to agree with a clear mischaracterization of a character i like to fill the made up box you put me in. This is asinine. I think Phipps take is shit and that doesn’t change my opinions of any of the other characters thanks you very much. Also:you can fuck off too.
Disagree all you like but I think Dorothy really hates the idea she’s doing the wrong thing and when both Joe and Dan point this out, she rejects it. She can’t deal with not being the good person in this.
She also equates Joe with Joyce’s kidnappers so that’s absolutely shitty.
That’s not a thing she did consciously, it was a felling she got because emotions and trauma are complicated. She didn’t even actually tell anyone about that. It’s not shitty ti have intrusive thoughts.
I’m with Nadamas on this one, like if you can show me a strip where Dorothy says “you are the same as Blaine” then I will grant you this point, but you will not find that strip. What you will find is Dorothy anxiously watching Joyce leave her behind, as she has worried and even had nightmares about, and Joe just happens to be the guy she’s leaving with in that moment.
This is genuinely such a terrible take. You are blaming her for a moment of PTSD that she didn’t even express out lout to anyone. Literal thought crimes.
I honestly expect nothing less of philp at this point.
Ok I do wanna go on record and say I think accusing Dorothy of equating Joe and Blaine is a stretch. I think her previous idea of Joe activates a lot of ptsd alarm bells for her and that can understandably warp her judgment, but she’s never taken it that far.
I will disagree all i like, since this is again, incredibly unfair and unfounded reading.
You do not have final authority on fictional neurodivergence. Speaking as somebody who’s also autistic, acting like everyone who takes issue with Dorothy’s behavior is trying to covertly punish her is incredibly tiresome. Having sincere guilt and limited social awareness does not preclude somebody from acting in shitty, performative ways.
I actually do have supreme authority over fictional Neuro divergence, starting from right now actually you can see the official seal right here 🖕
Hopefully someday Dorothy can hire a better publicist than you
If you want to be neurodivergence God, I shall claim neurodivergence Devil.
Basically, I like Joyce and Dina as example and don’t like Dorothy or Booster as them.
Weirdly, I think Jennifer could be an unconventional example as she is incredibly socially gregarious….and utterly misunderstands every social cue and facial recognition.
We are not doing a fun bit here philps, i think you are an asshole.
Nah, when it comes to neurodivergence, you gotta take the good with the bad. This stuff manifests in different people in different ways. Someone acting out in a shitty way because they’re neurodivergent isn’t suddenly unworthy of understanding. It’s entirely possible to empathize with Dorothy and Booster while also acknowledging how they can come off as oblivious in a tight spot.
I’m doing a bit because I don’t believe you should ever get upset with someone who exists in RL over a fictional character. You like Dorothy as a better person, I like her as a worse. I appreciate your input and consider you a favorite poster, Nadamas. The forum would be lesser without you.
I don’t think Dorothy is a better person, i just don’t she is anything like you portray her in your weird ass, bad faith takes. If i wasn’t stupidly addicted to it i would keave these comments specifically to not have to see any of them again.
I don’t read her as so much seeking moral superiority, as someone who believes very hard that she can fix things.
It isn’t so much a desire for control, as a belief that she already has control. If she just acts as the perfect person everything will be good.
I think Dorothy’s arc is a little bit about her learning to accept her own limitations, and learning that there is so much she can’t control, can’t fix, and how to keep trying despite that.
So here with Becky, she knows Becky is hurting and is thinking “If I just do the right thing by the book things will get better”. So she does what she things the right thing should be when someone is hurt because of you, and gives an apology.
I like Dorothy just fine but I like an incredibly flawed un-admirable Dorothy as that’s the more interesting one. For me, I think it’d be awesome to have the character explore her darker side and selfihsness.
And realize, yes, those are okay in small amounts.
I thought that Becky showing up would make me feel better about her not self-harming. Now that she is pushing down all her self doubt and anxiety and sense of worthlessness to pretend everything is fine and normal and regular I am suddenly reminded of Chromedome and now I’m *really* worried.
It’s always weird whenever we see Dorothy show clear sign of her Neuro divergence in the way she interacts with social situations, especially complicated ones, and some people insist she is being “insincere” or other negative connotation
Certainly weird, unfortunately par for the neurodivergent course.
Yes but Willis hasn’t deliberately raised the suspicion that Dorothy is ND in canon, yet, the way they did with Joyce; therefore, I think a lot of people just feel safer reading Dorothy as NT, which eliminates a lot of potential for many people to give her any leeway at all when she makes mistakes.
But, at the same time, I’m not shocked at anybody who isn’t dealing with neurodivergence in their day-to-day lives, being imperceptive to subtler signs that some characters are not neurotypical. Going around trying to clock who may or may not be neurodivergent, in my experience, is a pretty much exclusively neurodivergent behavior pattern.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2022/comic/book-12/04-dont-stop-billie-ving/sunlight/
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2022/comic/book-12/04-dont-stop-billie-ving/masking/
idk, Throwatron, I think Willis has very explicitly raised the suspicion that Dorothy is ND in canon.
And then, of course, there are all the many times Dorothy has just demonstrated it, like when she told Danny she’s practiced comforting people with physical touch too much to be bad at it.
like, I assume some people are just taking her at her word when she pulls these denials, but the strip itself has lampshaded every time that the specifics of Dorothy’s denials are… wrong. Suspiciously specific, and wrong.
haha dang i literally forgot these strips existed, that’s hilarious
<3 happy to remind you, then. 🙂
like for real there is SO MUCH DUMBING OF AGE.
we cannot hold all of it in our brains, but by our forces combined, we WILL remember things
Dorothy should cheat on Joyce with Becky right now, as an apology.
That would certainly stop all the discourse!
it’s about time this webcomic had a cheating arc!
I’m here for that
at this point i’m willing to take a vote on Taffy being new head writer lol
ay!
Dorothy was clearly trying to avoid Becky and give her space. She snuck into the room to grab clothes while she thought Becky was out, so she could continue trying to give space for as long as the clothes held out. It’s just, they share a room, and Becky showed up to it.
And Dorothy also has a powerful impulse to do Proper Apologies, so she’d done that impulse too and was totally carrying it around in her backpack. As everyone has noted, the apology isn’t really for Becky, it’s for herself, the act of writing it and following protocol, in an attempt to assuage her own guilt — but I think Dorothy knows that the letter is mainly self-serving, which is why she didn’t originally intend to give Becky the letter.
She was gonna try to be cooler: send somebody else to check in on Becky, give Becky space, and then, when surprised, compliment her haircut without making it weird — but she’s Dorothy, so, she blurted it out / made it weird. 🙂
I don’t like that the apology letter is about “falling in love”, for the same reasons others have mentioned, and also because it’s passive. She can apologize for acting obnoxious while falling in love, I guess, but her idea of giving space would’ve been the better way.
I do like that the apology emphasizes/cedes/affirms “your best friend”, which was a title where Becky feels a very strong need.
Truly do not understand all the “this is performative” comments. Dorothy has been worrying about how this would hurt other people since like 30 seconds after they got out of the tear gas. Dorothy writes notes for apologies and thank yous. Of course Dorothy would address it in writing; that doesn’t make this insincere. It is totally possible (and the right thing to do) to recognize and apologize for, or express sympathy for, the pain you’ve caused someone even when you can’t make it right.
Thanks you! Glad i am not the only one weirder out by that.
How hard is it to understand? Dorothy’s a woman, she’s queer, she’s obviously neurodivergent in some way, she’s ambitious, and she’s earnest. Any one of those traits alone makes her a soulless freak whose only desire is to manipulate everyone around her with token gestures and carefully chosen lies. That’s definitely what’s happening in the strip, it’s definitely what the character is about, and anyone who accuses her of those behaviors definitely doesn’t need to re-examine their personal biases.
Yeah, people are being very hard on Dorothy, and I don’t think it’s deserved at all. A lot of it is probably spillover from being mad about the cheating, and there’s always been a contingent that didn’t like Dorothy because she’s an ambitious woman.
I feel the same way, except substitute “Dorothy,” with “any character in this comic who is remotely a protagonist in any fashion.” A lot of commenters just seem to like taking every character in the comic at their absolute worst interpretation, and to read them like a moustache-twirling villain in all interactions. I do not grasp how anyone can live day-to-day being so caustically judgemental, and not blow a gasket somewhere along the way.
I’m calling her apology performative because Dorothy didn’t actually do anything wrong by Becky and I think deep down Dorothy knows that. Becky didn’t get “dibs” on a bisexual Joyce’s affections. Dorothy certainly didn’t set out with malice aforethought to seduce Joyce away from Becky.
And you contrast that with Walky, who I think most people would agree is owed an eloquent apology for Dorothy basically toying with his affections so much- not just cheating on him, but trying to seduce him away from Lucy and jumping on him the moment those two split up. But if Dorothy sat down to write that, she’d have to actually reflect on her behavior. Much easier to make a huge song and dance about how sorry she is for hurting Becky.
I think it’s mostly subconscious on Dorothy’s part- I think consciously she does believe Becky deserves an apology. But 1) Becky never asked for an apology and 2) apologizing like this means she doesn’t actually have to change any of her behavior or reflect on how her past behavior stunk. Because she knows that at the end of the day, Becky’s pain is self-inflicted.
The idea that Dorothy knows deep down that she didn’t do anything to Becky is… not one that I think is well-supported by the text.
I’m also completely at a loss for how apologizing for something immediately frees the apologizer from having to change their behavior going forward??? Since when?
Like jeez Louise, I don’t think I’ve ever apologized for something in my life without being expected to work on the mistake and try to avoid it in the future……..?
Honestly at this point i think ignoring rouge is for the best.
If I were some of the commenters here, this is where I’d be writing fanfic.
That’s what I always did when I saw an author going very determinedly in the opposite direction of what I thought made sense and would be more interesting. Especially for ships, but not just for ships!
Like, genuinely, I think “Dorothy’s apology here is entirely performative even if she doesn’t realize it” is a great premise for a fanfic. “Joyce and Dorothy are just fully callous people now who don’t care who they hurt” is, likewise, a great premise for a fanfic.
It feels pretty clearly at odds with Willis’s authorial intent, but that’s exactly what fanfic is best at.
I don’t necessarily agree, if i saw fanfics with those premises i would avoid them like the plague and block the authors, but it certainly would be better that the endless complaining.
I mean. That’s certainly your right, but fic is supposed to be transformative. It’s absolutely for going against canon, heh.
I mean, for me fanfics are just that, fiction made by fans of a thing, it can be transformative or not, it doesn’t really matter.
It depends on the sort of apology.
A sincere apology comes from a place of actual recognition of wrongdoing and regret. I don’t think we’ve really seen Dorothy regret her actions, just recognize that they hurt people.
1. “I know this is wrong, so I won’t do it”
2. “I know this is wrong, so I’ll feel bad after I do it”
3. “I know this is wrong, but I’m allowed to make mistakes so I don’t need to feel bad about it”
4. “This isn’t wrong”
I think the #1 is sincere whereas #2 (Dorothy) is just using self-flagellation to pay the price for wrong action. They don’t believe it is deeply wrong, just that it needs to have a cost.
Fundamentally this mindset comes from a punitive understanding of morality. We don’t do bad to avoid shame/guilt.
The alternative is a joy/life focused understanding of morality, where we don’t do bad because it doesn’t align with our values/what’s alive in us.
You can be sorry for hurting someone even if what you did wasn’t wrong.
Yep, this!
Well now we’re just talking crazy. Y’all are giving away sympathy for free? In this economy?!
Interesting. I don’t intend this to sound accusatory, but I suspect it’s going to anyway: I find your explanation and the way you view apologies to be strange.
You note that if Dorothy sat down to write something like this to Walky, she’d have to reflect on her behavior (“But if Dorothy sat down to write that, she’d have to actually reflect on her behavior”). But then you turn around and say that apologizing this way to Becky means Dorothy doesn’t need to reflect (“apologizing like this means she doesn’t actually have to change any of her behavior or reflect on how her past behavior stunk”). I don’t know how to reconcile your position. Especially considering you open your comment with “Dorothy didn’t actually do anything wrong by Becky.”
I agree that Dorothy didn’t do anything wrong by Becky and may or may not realize that, but…the rest of your comment sounds like you’re interpreting Dorothy as unconsciously using this letter as a get-out-of-guilt-free card? and basically nothing more? I don’t see it. Sometimes it’s worth acknowledging the pain we cause other people regardless of whether our actions were wrong or not; when we know we’ve hurt someone, it is kind to recognize that and express sorrow, even when there’s nothing we can do to make it right. Dorothy knows that. I do think part of this action will address Dorothy’s guilt, but I don’t think that makes it “performative.”
Example: When I got married, my best friend felt hurt that I made my sister maid of honor. I told my friend I loved her and I was sorry, I knew it was a difficult pill to swallow, and I hoped she understood. Because the alternative would be to, what, ignore her pain and pretend everything was fine, secure in the knowledge that I actually did nothing wrong? She’s my best friend and she was hurting. I’m not ignoring that even though her pain was rooted in her own expectations.
My point is, sometimes “sorry” is an expression of sympathy, not an admission of wrongdoing. Dorothy may view this as the latter, but it’s still fueled by and likely expresses feelings of the former. Speaking strictly for me, I would not call that a performance.
You put it so well and it explains why the reaction from some people today had fell deranged to me.
I think maybe they’re saying that if Dorothy did this for Walky she would have to reflect on her behavior, but instead she did it for Becky instead BECAUSE she doesn’t really have anything to apologize for, but it makes her feel less guilty overall.
You’ve mostly got it. And to be honest, it’s perfectly ok to disagree with me on this one. Reasonable people can do that.
But let me try and rephrase.
Becky is not in a position where she’s going to be receptive of this apology- she’s too deep in self-loathing- and I think Dorothy knows her roommate well enough to see that. And if an apology isn’t going to do anything to make the recipient feel better, it’s a *lot* more likely to be performative.
Basically, this apology is not going to make Becky feel better, and Dorothy is smart enough to know that.
I should add that making a performative apology is not in any way a big crime- heck, this is the most interested I’ve been in Dorothy’s thought process since she hooked up with Joyce- but at the end of the day I think Dorothy is doing this because it’ll make her feel better rather than out of a sincere desire to help Becky.
Which is not to say she doesn’t want to help Becky- she obviously does, she obviously feels bad about hurting her. But she’s smart enough that she *should* know this apology isn’t going to help her.
That is a sweet gesture if nothing else and Becky’s facial expression does suggest that she knows that even if she’s still a bit upset for obvious reasons
do not like that dorothy is being a better friend to becky than joyce, but this is very very cute (& overkill, obvs, but still cute)
I’m just confused now. I have my opinions but I’m not sure how to even read this strip anymore. Is intent all that matters behind this apology? Is this just a neurodivergent quirk highlighting Dorothy’s inability to understand a complex social interaction? Is sincerity what’s important even if divorced from context? Maybe this strip is just a silly joke I’ve taken too seriously?
I don’t think the strip it’s a silly joke but i do think you, and other people took a bit too seriously. Maybe i had too due to certain comments being a bit triggering for me i don’t know.
I always find the idea that you can’t take the punchline seriously as a character beat unconvincing. What, I’m supposed to critically read and analyze only part of the text? No.
Dorothy’s as if “the road to hell is paved with good intentions” was a character.
Erghhhh… *Keyboard smash out of embarrassment*
🖕
Test to make sure the emoji shows.
Everytime i open these comments i am like a chain smoker that knows the cigarettes gonna kill me but i just don’t care anymore.
I wanna see a performative apology for telling people to fuck off!