…BTW on a completely unrelated note, I left you a note in the comments yesterday with a link to a current article on folks trying to leave the US. (Especially science / software / self-employed folks.) Here’s the organization the article was about:
And thankfully yes — they started me off on topical Mupirocin to treat the problem more directly while mininizing collateral damage,
Most likely I will be very offline and AFK for the rest of the month (and dependent on Ko-fi donations to stay afloat once again @~@) as I make the necessary effort to get this under control
Best of luck to you, being generally bedbound for any length of time fucking sucks. I rec bumming an old smartphone off friends or family to use as a wifi tablet in bed, if anyone’s got one sitting unused after upgrading. So long as it can load websites, good enough.
Holy collateral damage, Batman! While this isn’t quite the cheating consequences I’ve been dreading, this was inevitable. Good thing Dorothy actually realizes this; Joyce is so besotted, she never stopped to think of the fallout, much less care.
Crotch sweat and pubes? My underwear doesn’t get sweaty or pube-y, especially not in winter, and double-especially not after laundering them. And people have various techniques for managing periods, though you’re sure to get some bloodstains over time.
Maybe if you’re wearing polyester and saran wrap, or if you don’t wash them for a long time…? My college boyfriend once told me he washed his jeans when they hurt.
I live in Florida. I have definitely wound up sweating in my underwear. Obviously I take them off and wash them but if I’m at work during the summer and working up a sweat, there will be some sweat in my underwear. It’s like sweating in your bra, it’s gonna happen. It’s a fone natural thing to do obviously but I would still rather wear MY underwear that I know what’s been in them before versus the underwear of another person. It just doesn’t seem sanitary.
> My college boyfriend once told me he washed his jeans when they hurt.
Even as a single cis-het guy that hews reasonably close to normalized male behavior on most fronts: ew, just ew. I know that the common wisdom is to not wash jeans but instead to spot clean and air out, but there are limits…
Jumping in because I don’t love the tone this is being discussed in:
It’s perfectly normal, and healthy, to have acidic vaginal secretions. It’s totally normal for those fluids to bleach the crotch areas of panties sometimes. The acidic nature of vaginal fluids is one of the keys to a happy, clean, healthy vagina. There is nothing weird, gross, or off-putting about the natural functions of a vagina.
Please stop demonizing bodies with vaginas just because we don’t talk about them as often as bodies with penises.
I appreciate this comment a lot, Nymph. It was definitely a bit… eeugh… to read, but I would’ve been too shy, I think, to speak up. Esp the no-nonsense tone. Thank you.
(And then I hit tab before . for some reason, so . replaced my username, and now there’s a weird comment with this content but “.” as the username, awaiting moderation fffff.)
While there is some truth in this, it’s still also true that we need to normalize understanding and discussing the normal, natural functions of the human body that can be described as ‘gross’.
Vaginas: self-cleaning. It’s some rad chemistry, actually.
The acid can eat through cotton undies if they stay in rotation long enough, but it’s usually time to pitch ’em by then regardless. Everyone’s underwear should have expiration dates.
i mean i assume joyce of all ppl would keep her underwear pretty clean but idk how much girlfriends would lend each other straight up bras and panties as opposed to like a tanktop/spaghetti strap undershirt
Pretty sure they’re sharing cooties anyway, borrowing clean laundry is no big deal.
I wouldn’t buy a stranger’s used bottom underwear since it’s difficult to completely sterilize, but thrift stores sell most everything else. Wash it well before you use it, and it’s usually fine.
Laundered undies are fine. Or, Dorothy just bought a new leather jacket, she can afford to throw in a 3-pack of cotton undies. Or she can go back to her room and get her own laundry while her roommate is out. That should work just fine, right?
Insert the mandatory ”you Americans” head shake from a Nordic bloke here.
Are you seriously saying that you’re squicked out about borrowing underwear that has been machine washed? That’s some magical thinking right there.
While I’ve rarely been in the position to need to, I haven’t found it any more strange to borrow my friends underpants than needing to borrow socks or a t-shirt.
Yeah, not a thing for this Canadian/American/whatever, either. It’s fabric. We already know Joyce really likes doing laundry. It’s clean.
(Also this AFAB doesn’t know what the AMABs are talking about with sweaty pube-tastic undergarments, esp in the middle of winter, esp given that Joyce probably changes her underwear daily. Balls must be very sweaty, shed-y creatures — kinda like how some chest-endowed people need to prevent sweat and chafing under their bosoms?)
as a woman with those particular dangly bits: even in a great lakes winter it gets sweaty down there, especially because i’m wrapped up in more layers than a motherlode cake from claim jumper since i hop between being inside and outside constantly.
The pube shedding though is from people not properly washing, shampooing, and maintaining their nether regions.
Some people have different tastes. When I had to sort through old clothes to donate to Good Will, my mom always had me just chunk the underwear while every other clothing was donated. I don’t think it’s an American thing I think it’s just… comfort levels. You feel comfortable borrowing underwear, that’s fantastic. Other people don’t.
Meh. Sometimes it’s a choice between borrowing your friends clean underwear and wearing the same dirty pair everyday. One of those is a lot more likely to cause an infection and it ain’t the clean ones. Becky had, quite literally, nothing by the clothes on her back. And the panties on her ass. She would’ve had to borrow until she could buy new ones. I remember doing it as a kid, I don’t see the big deal
Big “oh shit” energy from last panel Dorothy. I’m glad to see Becky isn’t sure they’ve broken up, though. I’m still holding out some hope that this will just be a rough patch for them.
I do wonder about Becky’s take in panel 2. Maybe keeping the Joyrothy out of sight doesn’t make her feel better, but it’s hard to believe that having it in sight wouldn’t make her feel worse.
Becky probably has every reason to believe that she and Dina are broken up, but I suspect if you brought the question to Dina she wouldn’t give you the same answer
I think Dina is a similar position to Joe right now. They’re waiting for a conversation that may never come. It’s up to Becky to initiate but I don’t think she will.
Becky, you asshole. Get over yourself. Joyce isn’t available to you and never will be. You don’t have any business leaving Dina untended. You don’t have any business hurting the girl that loves you with all her heart because your feelings are hurt. Go make up with her at once.
They aren’t, though – they’re saying it ABOUT a comic strip character. There’s no reason to assume they would speak in this way TO someone in distress.
By that metric you probably would have to avoid saying it to anybody cuz outside of someone telling you blatantly that they’re suicidal there’s literally no way for anyone to know how much someone is considering suicide.
Except Joe was actually in a relationship with Joyce. I would definitely be enjoying this juicy drama more if the story hadn’t been pretty much brushing over Joe in comparison.
I think you’re right, although this strip gives me some hope that Becky hasn’t given up yet. She needs to figure out if she’s able to really put Dina first, and if she is, have a serious conversation with her. I think Dina would be open to that.
Sometimes if you’re an overthinker, it’s better to exposure therapy your way through it. Because don’t get me wrong, it absolutely sucks. But sometimes your brain tortures yourself so much worse that having it actually be real and present is a relative relief. Then you can start moving past it.
I’m this way for sure. I am SO much more unhappy and stressed about something being hidden from me than I am being around something that I need to get over and come to terms with.
I often have to remind myself that the way to stop worrying about something is to do it and that the doing is usually less awful than the worrying. Doesn’t make it suck any less and it’s still hard to do, and I feel the same resentment I get when other people tell me what to do, but it’s true. The truth is just really annoying.
We recently saw a variation of this over in QC (Jeph’s comic), where it was actually something of a relief to Elliot when Clinton finally did break up with him, because he could stop constantly obsessing and spiraling about the possibility.
I think Becky’s logic in panel 2 is like… partly “fake it ’til you make it”, partly “not interested in receiving any kind of symbolic goodwill from Dorothy”.
(Which is her right, she’s not required to be gracious or anything.)
I think there’s a certain point where it feels like both options make you feel bad enough that it doesn’t matter, even if one might be technically worse.
I think some of it is Dorothy being “out of her space” means Dorothy spending the night with Joyce instead of in their room… it’s definitely not something I’ve thought would be making Becky feel better.
I agree it would likely hurt Becky having it in sight, but there can also be something distressing about knowing something is happening just out of your (metaphorical) field of vision. (And now I’m thinking about the Killer’s “Mr. Brightside.”)
…why should she? Like why on earth should she have considered that kissing someone would have made someone who wasn’t dating that someone break up with her girlfriend? Dina and Becky aren’t broken up because Dorothy kissed Joyce and this is a natural consequence. They’re broken up because Becky never moved on.
really hate the number of people across many fandoms who blame the sapphics for anything that goes wrong after they get together, pinning it straight on them getting together
(I was there, Gandalf, when the Legend of Korra Wikipedia edit wars raged)
They were acting like they knew this would have a major negative impact on Becky (until they got distracted by talking about how they fell into the truest of true loves).
Also, it’s not yet clear whether Becky is still carrying a torch for Joyce or if this is simply hitting her hard because Joyce didn’t find her in the least bit attractive. We’ve seen that Becky is very insecure about something happening to make Dina lose her attraction for her, and also pretty insecure about the idea of Dorothy becoming Joyce’s new best friend. Nearly everyone in her life outside of this school has either left or turned against her. So finding out that Joyce was gay after all, just not for HER… well. Lots of complicated feelings there.
It’s pretty clear there’s more going on than just Becky still carrying a torch, though that may well be part of it. That’s the only part Dina sees, I think, which is why this hit her so hard.
Also, Becky being outed lead to an awful domino effect of her and Joyce getting held at gunpoint, Becky getting Kidnapped, Amazi-Girl getting thrown through the windshielf of a moving car, her dad and Amber’s dad creating the League of Shitty Dads, KIDNAPPING Joyce and Becky’s other friends, her dad getting brained in front of those friends and Mike dying. (All as consequnce/a trial from God for being Gay as far as Becky seems to have connected the dots) while Joyce gets outed and…her dad is kinda confused but supportive. Becky’s been through a lot this last few (trying to remember what month DoA is currently in rn) Months, the weird sort of “falling in shit and coming out smelling like roses” luck Joyce seems to have just twists the knife. THEN there’s the “I loved you since before I knew what this kind of love was” feelings that wouldn’t just evaporate too.
Pretty much the first thing that occurred to the new couple was the impact on Becky. They considered faking their deaths. They thought becky would be extremely impacted. I’m insure why people keep insisting on some other set of circumstances.
Becky running into the cold hard truth that Joyce is obviously into girls and her crush didn’t like her back for reasons deeper than misaligned orientations was inevitable, and if Becky imploded her very stable relationship because of that, that’s sad but not really Dorothy’s responsibility.
Dorothy feeling guilty make sense. She’s an empathetic person and there is a clear causal relationship, it’s not wrong for it to weigh on her conscience, but this is not something she did wrong.
She has actually done some shitty things lately. Restarting things with her ex to try to get ahead of her romantic feelings for a girl and smooching someone who was dating someone else at the time are both pretty selfish and shitty.
That’s funny. The consequences Dorothy and Joyce should have thought about are the ones for Walky and Joe. Instead they have been worrying more about Becky…and yet that’s the one you’re blaming Dorothy for.
Becky herself recognizes that her feelings around Joyce (and whatever else) are a personal problem. She can still feel them, while also being aware that taking out her misery on her friends isn’t appropriate, and that she has/had her own commitment with someone else.
Becky’s most of the way there to dealing with it, all that’s left is to wrangle the feelings in a way that isn’t destructive. Talking it out with someone would probably help, as keeping it to herself (badly) doesn’t seem to be working for her.
I cannot stress enough as a Consequences(tm) Enthusiast, this ain’t it. Protecting Becky’s feelings is not and has never been Joyce and Dorothy’s responsibility.
Dorothy is absolutely going to blame herself for this when she shouldn’t, once again reinforcing that both her and Joyce care way more about Becky than they do about the actual partners they cheated on, partners who continue to be bit players in the endings of their own relationships. I’d like for the Consequences to involve and revolve around the *actual* parties involved, please! Until then, this is firmly in the category of “side effect collateral damage.”
I think we all knew Becky still wanted Joyce, but I think most people I’ve seen already feel like she’s gotta move passed wanting to be with her. Like; Becky was okay with Joyce getting with every dude she dated for less than a week before, but knowing that there was a CHANCE (not zero in her mind) that Joyce and her could’ve gotten together is breakin her.
That being said, Joyce seems to like the whole “Dorothy is in charge” thing so far. She literally is happy to have a girlfriend with instructions lol
I am pretty sure Becky has low self-esteem and is therefore assuming the worst, thereby helping bring about a negative self-fulfilling prophecy.
Also, of course everybody is acting like Becky owns Joyce. She called dibs. What sort of savages would we be if we didn’t expect that most ancient and scared of traditions? What next, just letting passengers ride wherever instead of frantically fighting over who called “Shotgun!” first?
Becky’s life is abandonment issues and feeling terror and anxiety every time her foundation of her self and her friends and her family is shaken.
In that position of vulnerability, she keeps taking everything that happens in proximity to her to underline her sense of worthlessness and lack of value. Such as Hank Brown saying “you could do worse than Dorothy” and her assuming that meant her. Joyce not being gay also fits into that. So does Dina rejecting her. And so on and so forth.
shes traumatized and feeling things, shes not making it joyces problem, shes trying pretty hard to keep it to herself ????? she isnt doing anything wrong to anyone but herself, which is understandable but yea.
Becky is not sad because Joyce and Dorothy cheated. She did not break up with Dina (maybe) because they cheated.
She is sad and maybe broken up because Joyce is gay and not gay for her. And also is having a slightly easier time coming out as gay (I refuse to call being forcibly outed an ‘easy time’ but certainly her dad didn’t turn up with a shotgun so the bar is low).
The consequences, therefore, are for J&D being gay and not for them cheating. Most people who wanted consequences wanted them to be cheating-related because only an asshole thinks people deserve consequences for being gay.
This would, once again, still be consequences for the being bisexual and not the cheating, which still renders the cheating plotline mostly pointless. Still holding out hope that it kickstarts an angry arc from Walky because that has everything to do with cheating, nothing to do with them being bi, and would lead to really good character development for him. (He could get similar from rebounding onto someone like Raidah, but that’s once again a thing that could’ve happened without cheating.)
Yeah, the Becky consequences of this is something I don’t much care for because I hate that shes going through a crisis of faith and breakup because of Dorothy/Joyce. I’d like to see disaster and drama with Dorothy and Joyce because I find that interesting but I’d like it to come from their actual choices from people actually with a reason to be affected.
Becky is being affected because she feels entitled to Joyce.
Your first paragraph has been my thought process for nearly the entire past year. Would be nice to have Dorothy and Joyce’s agency as characters actually be relevant to the aftermath of the choices they make.
People wanted consequences for the cheating. This is the consequences for whatever’s left of the torch Becky carried for Joyce and/or her deep insecurities about not being good enough for people.
I would’ve preferred more negative consequences for Joyce and Dorothy for their cheating and other shitty behavior towards other people in their friend group, not Becky being sad and possibly wrecking her relationship with Dina because Joyce is attracted to another woman and not her.
Is it wrong that Dorothy’s little smile in panel 4 is actually making me mad. Like, Dotty. I don’t think you’re there. You’re not even halfway there. You’re not even in the city limits. You’re gathering up your things right now so you can stay with her childhood crush and probably fuck her all weekend or longer. We’re not at “polite knowing smile” territory. Not even close.
also “Let me get out of your space” is such a backhanded insult to a roommate imo. It’s like a rejection that this is “our” space. Even if I’m mad at my roommate he’s still welcome in our home. If he refers to it as just “my” space then it feels like he feels no connection. To me it’s the same vibe as “my child’s parent”.
Yeah, pretty normal human reaction to smile in an awkward and uncomfortable situation for reasons besides joy, especially when trying to extend an olive branch and provide some help to someone also in the situation.
Nah I agree. I really haven’t been feeling the vibes Dorothy has been putting out this interaction. I know she means well and I can respect the attempt at sincerity but this is all after trying to sneak past Becky. It still feels like pity and condescension.
Yeah. Honestly, it seems to me that the message that Dorothy is trying to send and the message that Becky is receiving are far enough apart that the distance is measured in light-years.
Nah, I agree. That’s the kind of smile you’d give if things look like they’re on the mend. It’d make sense for her to smile like that right after Becky told her that it’s fine – not right after Becky makes it clear that it’s not, actually.
“I don’t want me dating Joyce to affect your relationship with her so I’m offering to give you some time together without me if you want” *gives a polite smile to show that she cares*
I think Dorothy’s expression was going for sympathetic there, not a smile. You can still find it condescending that she’s even trying, though.
IMO this is just more of the same dynamic she and Becky have had since they met for the first time. Dorothy has always tried to patiently extend olive branches, and Becky has always treated Dorothy as a rival. It’s entirely Becky’s fault that she wasn’t on better terms with Dorothy prior to this.
This is definitely *not* their old dynamic because Becky was very clearly playing in the old dynamic and she is being very serious here. Even if she might’ve felt the animosity, it wasn’t meant to be read as animosity she was showing. She’s not going to be having that playful rivalry with Dorothy anymore, methinks, because now she has real beef with Dorothy and real beef isn’t something to joke about.
[Mind you, I still think it’s BS because she didn’t own Joyce, but I very much appreciate Becky being very no-nonsense about this performative nonsense. Even if it were just to apologize for hurting a friend, Dorothy’s gone about this the most insincere seeming way she could that wasn’t just sticking a hand out for a handshake like Joyce.]
Dorothy is trying. Can’t know what Becky needs/wants if Becky doesn’t voice it, and Becky might not know what she needs right now. Everyone just needs time/space and I’m still voting for Dorothy swapping rooms with Dina or Amber.
I mean, Dina is freshly maybe-broken-up with Becky and Amber has trouble getting down to go to toilet… To which one of them should Dorothy suggest the swap?
Starting another Dorothy appreciation thread early today. I start: it’s very nice of her to eant to give Becky the chance to hang out with Joyce without her so she doesn’t fell like she will be left out of her life because of their relationship.
Throughout the story, for the most part, Dorothy has wanted the best for everybody involved. Her entire reason for going to college was to study politics and become the president and change the country for the better, make it a good place for everybody to live happily.
She is a GOOD PERSON.
Dorothy had her whole world view come crashing down around her fairly recently, that will shake anybody. She has had to come to terms that no matter how much she wants to do good and make the world better, she just can’t do it how she always planned, it is gonna be SIGNIFICANTLY harder with a much higher chance of failure. She got super depressed and started spiraling into self doubt and self hate. She tried to push away that feeling by fucking Walky, and that didn’t help because she was a different person then when she was starting to fall for him (They are both different people then when they first got together). She then finds out her best friend is going through a crisis because her Sister is in town and at a protest that could end with them in the hospital, on top of their Conservative father also being in town, leading to EVEN MORE stress and confusion. Then, in an act of pure passion and adrenaline, gets confessed to mid battlefield and realizes she is in love with her best friend, who she doesn’t think she deserves fully, while they were both dating other people. Leading to even more confusion and being even more thrown off her game.
Dorothy is Struggling right now, has been for a while but shit keeps getting stacks on top of the pile. Yes she is happy to be with Joyce now, they are very much in love and have been for a while, but that is also tied to a mountain of guilt thanks to the handling of the situation with Becky, which adds on to the self hate and her habit of blaming herself for shit. Now she is told that the possibly strongest couple of everybody she knows has potentially broken up, and thanks to her self hate and misplaced guilt, is gonna think its her fault.
She is a Disaster, She needs therapy (tbf the entire cast REALLY needs therapy), and she really needs to be told that everything is going to be okay, that not everything is her fault, that she doesn’t need to feel guilty about everything. She can just take a step back, get married to her girlfriend, and continue trying to follow her dreams.
Yeah, I like the framing of Dotty still being a good person and trying despite her fuck ups and struggles. It’s something that can be easy to miss in the moment when her actions are hurting people. Glad to see her still trying
“Hurt People hurt people” is a good saying.
If you yourself are not in a good headspace, your not going to be able to properly help somebody else and are not going to be able to easily see something from their perspective. Even more so if your particular bad headspace is filled with Self Hate and misplaced Guilt.
This is why EVERYBODY needs therapy, and should rely on a therapist for help with their mental issues, because most people don’t know how to properly talk to you about your issues and will most likely just be repeating whatever bullshit they saw on the internet or are going to use their own experiences and how they dealt with a situation to try and help you, which almost never works.
It is considerate of her, think it makes for a stronger apology. Just that she didn’t know how poorly Becky was doing… and now that she’s being let in on that a little, that actually makes me hopeful in regards to my worries about Becky. Dorothy’ll want to help her, and she’s already shown with Ruth that she’ll reach out to others if she can’t do it herself.
She’s a great character and I am loving all her fumbling the ball of life after doing something she actually wanted
She finally stopped thinking about consequences for 5 seconds and it didn’t go well, which is not fun if this were real, but narratively it’s delightful
Also she keeps trying and I love that about her, she cares so much
Idk if this counts as appreciation but I’ve said before she doesn’t click with me as a character no matter how much I want her to, for various reason. I don’t think that’s actually true…? When I dig deep and try to analyze her, like break her down piece by piece… something within me resounds? I said a little bit yesterday about struggling to recognize my own feelings, and talked about how dotty is constantly performative in a way I relate to, autistically. I think a little bit of that is happening. Something from a deep dark ocean trench bubbles up to the surface when I think about her real hard. I tried writing a thing about it yesterday bc it’s a really interesting metatextual experience. But it’s too hard to really describe yet. I don’t…enjoy her, on a simple level. It’s not like how my favorite characters just deposit serotonin into my brain. But there’s some kind of connection there that I just can’t recognize yet. I see some of myself in her but I think there’s deeper feelings than that. She’s not blorbo, or skrongly. I don’t know what she is to me. It’s fascinating. And a little uncomfortable bc it’s always weird noticing things about yourself that you were blind to. But I want more.
I agree, and it’s really a significant gesture considering how this early in a new relationship you want to spend every possible moment with your partner. Dorothy’s really making a statement about how Becky can and should still have an important place in Joyce’s life.
Everyone’s been debating about whether Dorothy is doing the best possible job in this conversation, (probably not, because she’s human), but the most important thing is that everything is coming from a place of kindness and understanding for Becky, and that’s very Dorothy.
The new hair gives Becky a gravitas she previously lacked. The big swoop paired with default grin made it difficult to take anything she said seriously.
I think the problem I’m having with all this fallout from Joyce and Dorothy hooking up is that almost everyone has become unlikable and the people I do sympathize with I barely get to see and it has been mostly to shit on them. I wanna see Dina, I wanna see, Joe, we saw Walky but he basically got an “That’s rough, buddy.” As Joyce felt absolutely no sympathy or self awareness, like to the point you’d think she was the villain of the week.
And like here. I’m not really digging Dorothy’s attempt at comforting Becky, but I admit that’s likely just bias from me or something, but it’s not like Becky’s really coming off great here either. She’s got the least stake in Dorothy and Joyce as a couple yet she’s the most upset?
I’m really happy this couple has made everyone near it worse as a person.
Becky has plenty of stake in this. Just because she hasn’t put a penis in anyone involved doesn’t mean she was any less in love or any less close to this. And she’s got real-world experience with coming out that makes this look like happy fun time land for Dorothy and Joyce.
Also she’s worried she and Dina are broken up.
IDK I think she has a lot of very valid reasons to be having Big Sad about the situation.
Yeah if I almost died coming out, and then my close friend came out a couple months later and had what seemed like a breezy, whimsical jaunt to their first gay experience, I’d feel some type of way about that
With some from extra brain chemicals from jumping into action to help save my best friend!… who then turned out to be fine actually, okay, well, I’ll just go have some excitation-transfer while ruminating, I guess.
I mean if Becky is really upset that Joyce has had an easier time coming out than she had I think that’s understandable. It’s not really something she’s articulated yet though. At least not in this moment.
I think she’s got “investment” but not stake? Like she can feel upset about someone she likes having an easier coming out than she did but like. Joyce and Dorothy hooking up only really effects Becky because she’s still holding a torch for Joyce. It’s more of an internal drama than external? Like Dorothy cheats on Walky means that Walky loses a romantic partner. Dorothy dating Joyce means…Becky still has a girlfriend that loves her very much. Nothing has changed for her except the things she’s changed for herself.
As others have pointed out, it is weird that the biggest narrative consequences so far are for DoJo being queer. I like the focus on Becky’s feelings bc I think they’re really complicated and interesting, but. Idk how I feel about the most guilt being felt for the party that got some bad collateral damage, but wasn’t wronged? Like this was gonna happen either way, regardless of the weird cheating plot. And the harm of them two being gay is being framed as worse than the harm of them cheating? One of those things is an actual bad and hurtful thing to do, and the other is being gay. It’s the pacing issue again, it’s weird that we’re spending so much more time on it than the thing that would usually be more consequential.
And I think that’s a bad narrative decision? If anything, including the cheating just seems to distract from the coming out element. It’s day 2 and we’re only just now getting Joyce’s internal thoughts and feelings about this. I dunno, I don’t vibe with it being a “coming out story” being a catch all excuse for how it’s been written because I feel like in terms of coming out stories I’ve read I ALSO don’t like how it’s paced or written?
Becky never had a stake in Joyce and Dorothy’s relationship. She doesn’t have ownership of Joyce’s sexuality or romantic affection. Thinking she does is what created the rift between her and Dina. She was not valuing Dina as a partner over Joyce or valuing herself as a person without Joyce’s romantic love. She should feel bad that her relationship with Dina is in jeopardizing but not because of anything Joyce and Dorothy did.
She has stake in her own damn feelings lmao. I didn’t say she had ownership of anything at all. She is allowed to feel sad about her crush not liking her, it’s a super normal feeling that everyone is treating really weird for no reason.
She isn’t punishing Joyce or Dorothy, blaming them, or seeking them out to make this their problem. Why can’t she just have some sad feelings that take more than a day to get over?
I feel like you’re also extrapolating things I haven’t said. I think it’s fine for Becky to feel sad about it. But that doesn’t mean she has any stake in Dorothy and Joyce as a couple. That’s all I said. And I don’t think Becky is coming off great because just yesterday or a moment ago in comic time she was trying to get Dorothy to take off her coat to reveal she is wearing Joyce’s clothes. It’s a silly joke but also a bit of an overreach in boundaries that Becky really has no right to demand even if she feels bad.
I hope this better explains what I was meaning when I comment I think everyone is becoming worse from this.
“it’s not like Becky’s really coming off great here either. She’s got the least stake in Dorothy and Joyce as a couple yet she’s the most upset?”
“She doesn’t have ownership of Joyce’s sexuality or romantic affection. Thinking she does is what created the rift between her and Dina.”
“She should feel bad that her relationship with Dina is in jeopardizing but not because of anything Joyce and Dorothy did.”
So these were a few of the points I was specifically responding to when I said what I said. The first paragraph is a direct response, the second paragraph is me making the point I was trying to make in a new way because the first way failed. It was not intended as an extrapolation of anything you said, just an explanation of why I disagree that Becky is in any way coming off badly here or becoming worse.
I think she has a stake in this. The stake is “I had a crush on that girl my whole life and now I have to grieve the idea that we might have ever ended up together” which is a pretty big stake imo. She’s not “worse” for having feelings that aren’t fun and making them absolutely no one’s problem as best she can. Other than outright hiding how she feels, idk how else she could be less a problem about her sadness.
Then I should articulate better because I don’t have issue with any emotions expressed by the characters but certain actions that have been taken because of them. Joyce has been obnoxious, Dorothy has been avoidant, Becky has broken up with her girlfriend or at least not stopped her from walking out on their relationship. Everyone has a right to their emotions but they aren’t just existing in a vacuum, and I criticize Becky specifically because she’s currently sabotaging her real relationship over the loss of the idea of a relationship she never had.
I am not the biggest fan of Joyrothy’s arc at this point, but I kind of like the radiative fallout. This is a relationship that was formed in unpredictable and frankly toxic beginnings. Realistically, it’s going to bring some sort of mess. Becky having a hard time dealing and then the fallout with Dina is good writing. It just needs to come back home.
Dorothy is honestly in a lose-lose situation here. Nothing she says to Becky is going to make this better. Becky needs time to deal with this, and Dorothy’s big Achilles heel is that she’s kind of a control freak and doesn’t have the emotional capacity to let things happen. And literally every attempt to control it is making it worse.
To be fair, Billifer and Daisy were already unlikable before this.
I think Becky’s big defense in this conversation (because no I don’t think sullenly nuking your relationship is actually a warranted response to finding out Joyce is not into her. I wouldn’t give Danny that excuse if Dorothy getting with Joyce somehow signaled to him that they could ever get back together, I’m not giving Becky that excuse either. That said, I wouldn’t call her an add in the convo with Dina either because extenuating circumstance.) is that she didn’t seek it out. Like, yeah she’s pressured Dorothy, but Dorothy brought that on herself with her notarized bullshit apology.
If Dorothy had just been in there and acted normal, or was like “Hey, do you want to talk about this or do you need some space?” And taken the first answer she heard, Becky wouldn’t have demanded the coat off and wouldn’t be unloading here. Which probably would’ve been the worse thing to do, I still worry about Becky, but Dorothy’s in a lose/lose situation and still managed to find a worse/more condescending option lol.
(Ass*. I don’t deny that people are accountable for what they say and do during a mental health crisis, but I think the responsibility for witnessing one is to either get someone back down to some stable level or find someone who can before trying to make demands that they discuss the nature of one’s relationship, especially when this isn’t a pattern of manipulation or abuse previously established.)
Actually, now that I think about it, Dina should’ve been the one sending the wellness check from Ruth, not Dorothy. Dorothy didn’t see how Becky was the night before, what the fuck Dina.
Also to clarify, I laugh about Dorothy finding a worse, third option because I love Dorothy *because* she does condescending bullshit mostly on accident.
“dorothy’s a piece of shit for writing an apology letter” “dorothy’s a piece of shit for wanting to give becky space” “dorothy’s a piece of shit for smiling” god forbid a doll do anything
Valid <3 I like commenting here, but any time it become annoying for me instead of fun I just bounce until it's fun again. I totally get how that's not easy for everyone though! Hope you have a better time of it today.
my memetake is that dorothy keener is spiritually transfem and my evidence for this is that the commentariat (metaphor for society) is hates her and is praying for her downfall
(i also have real, non-rage-driven reasons for this take but im not writing that essay right away)
Cis women also experience this level of bullshittery from people at large (notably different than trans women experience, but from a similar shitbag place). Not sure where that moves your needle, but I support your headcanon.
This is true, for the sake of being scathing I have kinda skimmed over how the commentariat at large also does this to other women in the cast (primarily women of color such as Sal and Sarah and Raidah, plus Joyce who i also have weird transfem opinions about), so I’ve been a bit narrow by describing this as Dorpy-specific.
“Dorothy is spiritually transfem” is primarily a bit driven by a combination of “i am a transgender woman and i find Dorothy Keener to be particularly relatable” and “Dorothy Keener is a puppygirl with conetits who comp-tops her chaser girlfriend” and the joke reading keeps getting bolstered by both things that happen in the comics and the enabling of people I talk to about the comic. (shoutout to tumblr user dorothykeenersleftdoinker <3)
I have always been team Joyce Is The Dom! It’s just that so far in Joyce and Dorothy’s sex, Joyce has been letting Dorothy most of the topping. There’s a brief, shining moment where Joyce takes the lead during the Slipshine but it gets interrupted and by the time they’re back to fucking, Dorothy’s taken back over again. They’re both switches, it’s fine.
I’m like 90% sure Dominant Joyce is the intended reading of the dynamic, but Willis does this Thing that bothers me in their smut writing where they’ll post about a character doing sex a certain way and then just… not write that. Like, they post like that with Danny saying he’s a sub/bottom, and then every time he has on-screen sex he’s going on top and being Incredibly Good At It. It betrays very vibes-based perception of dominance and submission that bothers me a little bit, because dammit I want to see these dynamics fuck in the way that was advertised! Let Joyce peg Dorothy! Let Sal peg Danny!!!
Saw one about how Actually her writing an apology letter and (checks notes) 100% accidentally running into Becky when neither of them expected it was evidence she wanted to control everyone. What the hell do people want exactly. Every smile she ever has to be pre-empted with ‘IM AWARE I AM A BAD PERSON AND SHOULD GROVEL MORE’ now.
(in before someone goes No Obviously I Just Want Her To Experience Cheating Consiquences)
Like I said yesterday, I think some of this is coming from folks for whom “Willis has deliberately made Joyce and Dorothy insufferable and we’re supposed to hate them” is kind of their last real hope for narrative catharsis here.
So, Dorothy CAN’T be genuinely sorry that she hurt Becky, and she CAN’T be trying her best here (and sucking at it). It’s gotta just be some sort of front. Because the alternative is…
Well, for you and me, nothing bad happens, but for these folks it’d be a lot like if Joyce’s Nu Atheist turn had been permanent, instead of a self-effacing cul-de-sac.
I think people would benefit from letting themselves not like a character without having to create, like… a logic and morals based argument for why the character is unlikable. I generally don’t like Dorothy, but it’s not that I think she’s a bad person (and if went to highschool together, she’s the character who would most likely be in my friend group). She’s not a character I feel as interested in reading about most of the time. It’s totally subjective and coming from me.
(Real life equivalent– there can be people you don’t like and… it doesn’t have to be that they’re bad people. Sometimes people get really invested about how someone sucks, actually, when it’s just… not having the same sense of humor or communication/conversational styles. And you can still not like them (just, yknow, don’t be a jersey about it).)
I, personally, don’t like Dorothy at all and ALSO don’t think she’s necessarily a bad or nefarious person. But people assume if I’m criticizing her that that IS what I’m saying and so I have to defend a strawman of how I feel rather than how I actually feel about her.
Unfortunately, when so many of the comments criticizing her do come from people who either actively are saying these things or else say them so frequently that they’re known for thinking it about Dorothy, the occasional innocent person who just dislikes Dorothy for perfectly chill reasons is gonna not be taken in good faith.
That, I think, goes back in part to the “book-smart girl who was already sexually active and unashamed of it when she arrived at school == mature and worldly, therefore every time she makes a clumsy mistake, it must be something she’s doing on purpose out of meanness” part I keep harping on about, heh.
I think she also got off to a bad start with a lot of commenters when she chose career aspirations over romantic love, and but pretty much every mistake she’s ever made with any character is easily reconstituted into something she was doing on purpose, because she’s manipulative, if you’re really determined not to see how earnest, socially awkward, and ND she is.
inb4: of course ND people can be manipulative. I didn’t actually say they couldn’t! There are just a LOT of Dorothy Takes that specifically rely on her being a looooot better at, like, reading social cues, and instinctively knowing the correct, appropriate way to behave in any given situation, than she actually is.
I want Dorothy to make bad and horrible choices because I think it would be interesting as well as a sign that she has places to go character-wise. Her having a selfish arc is something I support like with Joyce.
Sort of like how I want Dina to find something in science that contradicts her existing beliefs.
I was really and truly not talking about any one specific person, just a general trend.
So if you don’t think “reader who’s currently trying kind of too hard to rationalize why Dorothy trying to apologize to Becky is proof that she only cares about herself” describes you, perhaps it doesn’t.
Yeah, I’m over here like… yeah, Dorothy is a piece of shit for almost all those things, she’s in a lose/lose situation right now and sincerity has never been her speciality. She does performative shit all the time that’s solely meant to make her feel better. (She would not have been a piece of shit for asking Becky if she needed space and taking her at face value if the answer was yes.)
I LOVE Dorothy being a piece of shit, she’s a realistic piece of shit, she’s the same piece of shit I was back in uni. She’s gotta learn that not everything is about her and cannot be fixed with a notarized apology or a eulogy given at a Halloween party. I don’t like people’s weird sanitation of her like she’s not doing weirdly asshole things because Dorothy wouldn’t give herself that grace, Dorothy KNOWS she does asshole things on accident, that’s why they snowball the way they do into *notarized apologies*!
Well, I agree that Dorothy would not give herself grace, lol. The difference is apparently that I think that’s because she’s anxious and has low self-esteem.
We also seem to have fundamentally different views of human behavior, because I don’t think people are assholes for the mistakes they make. “Asshole things done by accident…”
Call those of us who feel that way “sanitizers” if you gotta, I guess.
If you listen closely, you can hear yet another spinning plate in Dorothy’s mind palace shattering in the last panel. Her past few months have just been like that.
Are Dina and Becky actually broken up? Because the last time we saw them together didn’t really feel like a break up to me. Maybe Becky should talk with Dina and confirm if they’re broken up or not.
Honestly, I could see it both ways. What Dina said heavily implied that it was over. “I deserve better” usually means “I deserve better than you”, but also Dina doesn’t really speak that much in implications. She could very well have meant the more literal interpretation, which is simply “I deserve better from you”.
I could easily see both. I’ve mostly been critical of recent story decisions, but I think this is one of the ones that is really, really good. Miscommunication is realistic, especially in a couple that is autistic-allistic. Becky is seemingly having an itching doubt about this, which means she as an individual is emotionally intelligent enough to realize that Dina may have meant something else.
As much as I love them as a couple, they needed to have this fight. It was just a matter of time. Whether or not they break up because of it, I still like the direction this is going. And even if they are broken up, there is a great chance for them to get back together after Becky has a chance to grow. I see them as my favorite OTP, to be honest.
Unlikely. Dina being Dina, if she had broken up with Becky she’d have stated so. She’s not really an implier. What she said to Becky was basically “make up your fucking mind”, and then she went to make sure Amber wasn’t dying, which takes priority over any and all of this bullshit.
Basically, that “I think [we] might” is doing a lot of heavy lifting there.
I feel like taking some time to get herself back together is probably more sensible than going straight to Dina to clarify their relationship status. It doesn’t mean they won’t talk later on.
If someone just said “Imagine a woman.” to me without further context, Dina probably wouldn’t be the woman I’d imagine.
This is clearly a failing on my part.
I think a lot of people find saying the one that is unfamiliar to them or hearing it far more jarring. Becky is just making her statement as uncomfortable as possible.
That is just just not a thing anyone does. Chosing a weird word to “make things uncomfortable to themselves”. Taffy was probably reacting to the absurdity of that statement.
Becky is making a funny/unusual turn of phrase, likely to have half a moment of distance from her discomfort. Just a very small bit of humorous deflection. Walky does it all the time, too. A coping strategy that I recognize well. 🙂
I’m a lil frustrated once again a handful of people are treating the characters like they’re ment to have perfectly logical dialogue and reactions to any and all situations.
Like Dot doesn’t have our omniscient pov where we can hyper analyze every line of dialogue and every facial detail of a character during all their interactions to see how much they’re masking at any point.
And Becky isn’t going to just magically be over a love she had invested into for years just because she ended up falling in love with someone else. Ofcourse finding out Joyce is actually gay and just doesn’t love Becky, is going to suddenly bring back a lot of raw emotions.
I especially don’t think this is either of them trying to “own” Joyce, it’s just two people dealing with the emotions suddenly put infront of them and dealing with it badly but the best they can because they’re not computers
True, but Joe didn’t have an in-universe character constantly telling us how great he is when he was the worst version of himself. We keep being told that Dorothy is smart (admittedly by Joyce who is an unreliable judge of character) but it gets to a point where I legit can’t tell if I’m meant to think she is meant to be. I wouldn’t mind having a character cut through the BS and be like “dorothy clearly doesn’t know what the hell she’s talking about.”
I think that we’ve been told pretty consistently that Dorothy is smart intellectually and academically, but she’s socially a lot more inept than she thinks she is, (or that Joyce thinks she is.) I feel like that’s been pretty consistent throughout the history of the comic.
It’s absolutely this kind of reaction that makes me start protesting that Dorothy’s doing her best, fff.
Which isn’t the same thing as she’s doing the right thing or she’s not hurting anyone or she never makes mistakes…
Unsure if it’s just because this is happening slowly at one strip per day or because we’re all so deeply invested but. The hyper analysis of everyone and the assimption that whatever is happening right now is the only thing that’s ever gonna happen (i.e., “grr, he’s really just gonna let that punchline slide and not react to it?”, even though Willis definitely has a pattern of having characters react to the punchline in the next strip)… is a little frusteating, heh.
Nobody’s perfectly logical and smart unless they’ve just been cheated on in which case they are completely understanding and mature about the whole thing.
Becky, you absolute asshole! Dorothy and Joyce is not about you. Never was, never will be. Yet here you are, going scorched earth over someone who never actually was anything more than a friend to you, and a damn good friend, at that, finally finding happiness with someone.
Meanwhile, you’ve devastated someone who loves you and you’ve claimed to love back, and quite likely ruined a good, happy relationship over, what? An unreciprocated crush you by all decency should have put behind you once you joined a relationship with someone else.
If you still have any inkling that there might still be something that could be salvaged with Dina, perhaps you should take a moment out of selfishly martyring yourself in some pathetic woe-is-me self-victimization, and seek out Dina and try to seek forgiveness for your utterly despicable treatment of her, and ask for an, entirely undeserved, opportunity to repair your relationship with her.
Or was your supposed “friendship” with Joyce only about you trying to get into her pants, and Dina nothing more than your consolation prize for not succeeding?
You may have had a very rough couple of years (weeks in DoA time?) with plenty of trauma, but while that might explain some of your questionable choices and actions, they in no way excuse them.
If you hadn’t put your crush on Joyce behind you, entering into a relationship with Dina was both cruel and selfish. What you just did to Dina was cruel and selfish, regardless of if it originated out of some self-destructive response to finding out that while Joyce actually did have a thing for girls, she still didn’t have one for you.
Anyone else feeling like pacing/priority is what’s off about this storyline? I know some commenters just seem to dislike D&J, but that isn’t me.
Like, it feels like the impact on Becky–which isn’t even D&J’s “fault”–is the fallout from the kiss that D&J were *by far* the most aware/concerned about, and is the fallout we’re delving into by far the deepest and hitting by far the toughest emotional notes about.
With regard to telling Joe & Walky, addressing “disrespecting” the protest with Asma, Raidah, & Leslie, even Amber’s injuries, it feels like both the author/narrative, and D&J’s feelings in-universe, have been, “let’s get through that fairly quickly/lightly so we can really dig into worrying about Becky”.
I think things like Dorothy finding out that Joyce (whether she realizes it) has left Joe hanging were sort of more “immediate” and should’ve played out sooner this chapter, while maybe the Becky shoe should’ve taken a little longer into next chapter to drop?
Like, if you wanted to write a storyline about how D&J getting together would impact Becky’s various unresolved trauma, great…but that didn’t also need to be a cheating storyline. Just break D&W and J&J up over some time and get there organically.
Maybe that didn’t happen because the pacing of the strip is so slow it would’ve taken 4 more years to get there? Like is what really happened here that Willis decided that J&J getting together was a mistake that there wasn’t any way to mine years worth of material out of?
i dont know if i agree with that, we’re kinda just rotating between beats. We’ve intermediatly checked in with Walky where I think his self-isolation was a large part of why we haven’t seen him much but who also very recently got to have his emotional payoff in his outburst against Joyce which I assume will lead into a hard shift in their dynamic for the coming future.
Similarly Dot recenty got to once again address the effects their public outing had on the protest and Asma’s beat on that plot is still ongoing.
Amber is out of the picture atleast for now until she heals a bit more.
I don’t think we’ve rushed past anything, if anything I feel that narritively the dominos have finally finished being set up and now they’re finally starting to fall.
Eh, Walky kinda got in one zinger that his own sister didn’t even really back him up on (although the moment where Billie came to check on him was a nice one). But I think we’re taking the Becky stuff far more seriously so far.
But maybe in a few months it will have all played out and I’ll look back and say that you were right and I was just being impatient.
I mean, to a degree, I suppose. But DoA has always unfurled very slowly, and I’m fine with that.
So the thrust of my complaint isn’t “we’re taking too long to really get as deep and hard-hitting with Walky, Joe, etc”. It’s more “I’m not sure we’re ever *going to*. It feels like this has mainly been plotted as an investigation of how we’ve always known/feared that D&J getting together would inevitably crash out all of Becky’s unresolved traumas, and Willis doesn’t actually seem as interested as many commenters in the cheating aspect of it all.”
Which is to say, to be fair to YourCousinJay and Li, Willis could still very much prove me wrong.
I sympathize with folks for whom the buildup has been too long for the amount of likely payoff we’re gonna get for certain things, but absolutely I agree that things are about to really start happening in consequences land.
The pacing only feels off because we can’t binge the storyline. Give it time and then reread and I bet it’ll feel a lot better. Literally like 80% of the comments about how much time it’s taking to address everything, I just want to shake the commenters gently back and forth while singing it’s a storyyyy and it takes time to tell because there’s only 4 panels a daaaaaay and if it pisses you off then leave for a whiiiiiile and then come baaaaaack, aaaaaaAAAAAAAAA.
Not, like. You specifically, to be clear. Just in general. As a writer, this has been really weird to see.
I’ve been reading this comic since I was 13 and I’ve never felt the strip a day slowness so god damn bad. It’s worse than usual here for some reason. Tbh probably not in small part due to way too many strips being dedicated to DoJo being cute, which if you don’t like them might as well be a blank page. Other couples didn’t really get that much concentrated fluff, or at least when they did it wasn’t in the middle of such tense set up that it made you go “fuck this, wheres the drama???? Why are we putting it off????”
I mean, you may well be right. But, also, go read the comment I just wrote to Big Z just above yours: I wasn’t really talking about the *speed* of events, but questioning what the *direction* of events seemed to be. Which, again, I could still very well be proven wrong and you could be right.
Woman, this is your first couple’s fight Dina did not spend brainstorming how to sooth you. Actually, it’s the first time friction escalated into a fight. You can salvage this if you try. You got to sooth her sometimes too.
So much sublimating and goofy coping mechanisms, you don’t admit to yourself when you’re upset. You can apologize for treating her like that and say you need some time to think about emotions that can’t be fixed or soothed away easily.
Geeze I want to shake these kids. What are you all, teenagers? With big emotions? Written by an lightly autistic person, exploring the failures of interpersonal problems? You’re pushing my buttons damn you Willis, and I love to hate it! AAAARRRRRRG!
I wouldn’t even classify it as a fight. It basically boiled down to Dina saying “I’m hurt”, Becky saying “It’s my fault” and Dina agreeing with that statement. It being a conversation with hurt feelings and negative emotions doesn’t automatically make it a fight. The big thing here was Dina not coddling Becky and comforting her with lies. (Which is the correct and mature thing to do, and frankly I think its what Becky needs long-term)
I’ve dated a lot of BPD women and I’ve had this conversation myself quite a few times (not trying to diagnose Becky at all, simply a statement that this behavior falls within a pattern I’ve seen quite a bit). Becky was expecting her self-pity to elicit a certain response and was entirely thrown when Dina didn’t give it to her. If she can get past her self-pity this will be mended rather quickly- but I think she’ll need to hear it direct from Dina first that hurting her is not automagically the end of a relationship. It’s only the end if Becky can’t get herself together and make it right- and it’s not Dina’s responsibility to put Becky back together for that.
The key is that Dorothy followed it up with some suggestion of action.
I never hated Dorothy. Making a token apology because it’s expected of you and easier than making one to the guy you cheated on is not evenn a little bit of a crime. Dorothy always thinks she means well. Most of the time she does but sometimes she’s selfish. Just like any 19 year old.
Good actions can have bad consequences. If the US went to national healthcare, tens of thousands of people would be out of work in the private insurance industry . Dorothy and Joyce finding love was always going to have consequences. Even Joyce, the starry eyed romantic, saw that.
Doesn’t mean they shouldn’t pursue their romance. Just that they recognized there would be consequences to deal with. Painful consequences. The course of true love never did run smooth.
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look up Becky,
at least ya aint dealin with an infection which could very well take your leg
no matter how bad ya think things are, they could *always* get worse X~X
“I wish I could skip all the Christmas bullshit for once”
*monkey paw finger curls*
Oh, sugarpie! 😬
Sending all my hopes for your thorough recovery!!! ❤️🩹🕯🪷🫖🌈🛌⚕️💊🫂🤗
…BTW on a completely unrelated note, I left you a note in the comments yesterday with a link to a current article on folks trying to leave the US. (Especially science / software / self-employed folks.) Here’s the organization the article was about:
https://www.facebook.com/61574864462184/
I know you got MORE PRESSING concerns right now! So this is just for when you feel better.
I am so sorry to hear that. That must be terrifying. I hope heal quickly and fully. Do they have you on antibiotics at least?
Thank you. TT~TT
And thankfully yes — they started me off on topical Mupirocin to treat the problem more directly while mininizing collateral damage,
Most likely I will be very offline and AFK for the rest of the month (and dependent on Ko-fi donations to stay afloat once again @~@) as I make the necessary effort to get this under control
Rest, leg elevation and ice packs galore!
If you, that are reading, can help with something, it wil be great.
Take care of yourself, do what you need to do. Wishing you the absolute best.
Oh Fuck! I so hope not.
aw jeez 🙁 🙁 I’m so sorry
Best of luck to you, being generally bedbound for any length of time fucking sucks. I rec bumming an old smartphone off friends or family to use as a wifi tablet in bed, if anyone’s got one sitting unused after upgrading. So long as it can load websites, good enough.
oh man, good luck, sending my best wishes (though clearly based on *gestures at everything* my wishes aren’t great, I’ll send them none the less) ~<3
Oh dang, good luck. it is not fun.
Good luck. I hope the infection doesn’t cost you your leg and that you can recover quickly. Bed rest is not fun.
NOOO
dorothy just realized she forgot to turn the oven off before leaving this morning
The sound of glass shattering in the final panel.
People listen to vinyl again, so a record scratch is back to being a possibility.
People must start wearing monocles again, so that they can be dropped out of astonishment.
Holy collateral damage, Batman! While this isn’t quite the cheating consequences I’ve been dreading, this was inevitable. Good thing Dorothy actually realizes this; Joyce is so besotted, she never stopped to think of the fallout, much less care.
Bonus panel: You May be Right starts blaring.
I got the biggest cheesiest grin on my face when I saw that. Let’s get this show on the road!!
Spongebob meme of “YOU WHAT?!”
Ew. Don’t trust loaned underwear. I guess it’s probably washed. Still not my vibe. Maybe it’s different for ladies.
Nah even as a lady do not trust loaned underwear.
This is why she isn’t wearing any underwear.
nah maybe if its just my cis lady friends but theyre comparing their vaginal discharge to battery acid
*maybe its just
Geez, I was only worried about crotch sweat and pubes.
Yeah with AFAB individuals you have vaginal discharge (which happens throughout the month) as well as periods, in addition to crotch sweat and pubes.
Crotch sweat and pubes? My underwear doesn’t get sweaty or pube-y, especially not in winter, and double-especially not after laundering them. And people have various techniques for managing periods, though you’re sure to get some bloodstains over time.
Maybe if you’re wearing polyester and saran wrap, or if you don’t wash them for a long time…? My college boyfriend once told me he washed his jeans when they hurt.
I live in Florida. I have definitely wound up sweating in my underwear. Obviously I take them off and wash them but if I’m at work during the summer and working up a sweat, there will be some sweat in my underwear. It’s like sweating in your bra, it’s gonna happen. It’s a fone natural thing to do obviously but I would still rather wear MY underwear that I know what’s been in them before versus the underwear of another person. It just doesn’t seem sanitary.
> My college boyfriend once told me he washed his jeans when they hurt.
Even as a single cis-het guy that hews reasonably close to normalized male behavior on most fronts: ew, just ew. I know that the common wisdom is to not wash jeans but instead to spot clean and air out, but there are limits…
and the jock itch
Jumping in because I don’t love the tone this is being discussed in:
It’s perfectly normal, and healthy, to have acidic vaginal secretions. It’s totally normal for those fluids to bleach the crotch areas of panties sometimes. The acidic nature of vaginal fluids is one of the keys to a happy, clean, healthy vagina. There is nothing weird, gross, or off-putting about the natural functions of a vagina.
Please stop demonizing bodies with vaginas just because we don’t talk about them as often as bodies with penises.
I appreciate this comment a lot, Nymph. It was definitely a bit… eeugh… to read, but I would’ve been too shy, I think, to speak up. Esp the no-nonsense tone. Thank you.
(And then I hit tab before . for some reason, so . replaced my username, and now there’s a weird comment with this content but “.” as the username, awaiting moderation fffff.)
Counterpoint: natural, healthy bodily functions are still gross, especially when they involve fluid secretions.
While there is some truth in this, it’s still also true that we need to normalize understanding and discussing the normal, natural functions of the human body that can be described as ‘gross’.
Vaginas: self-cleaning. It’s some rad chemistry, actually.
The acid can eat through cotton undies if they stay in rotation long enough, but it’s usually time to pitch ’em by then regardless. Everyone’s underwear should have expiration dates.
i mean i assume joyce of all ppl would keep her underwear pretty clean but idk how much girlfriends would lend each other straight up bras and panties as opposed to like a tanktop/spaghetti strap undershirt
Pretty sure they’re sharing cooties anyway, borrowing clean laundry is no big deal.
I wouldn’t buy a stranger’s used bottom underwear since it’s difficult to completely sterilize, but thrift stores sell most everything else. Wash it well before you use it, and it’s usually fine.
Laundered undies are fine. Or, Dorothy just bought a new leather jacket, she can afford to throw in a 3-pack of cotton undies. Or she can go back to her room and get her own laundry while her roommate is out. That should work just fine, right?
Insert the mandatory ”you Americans” head shake from a Nordic bloke here.
Are you seriously saying that you’re squicked out about borrowing underwear that has been machine washed? That’s some magical thinking right there.
While I’ve rarely been in the position to need to, I haven’t found it any more strange to borrow my friends underpants than needing to borrow socks or a t-shirt.
Yeah, not a thing for this Canadian/American/whatever, either. It’s fabric. We already know Joyce really likes doing laundry. It’s clean.
(Also this AFAB doesn’t know what the AMABs are talking about with sweaty pube-tastic undergarments, esp in the middle of winter, esp given that Joyce probably changes her underwear daily. Balls must be very sweaty, shed-y creatures — kinda like how some chest-endowed people need to prevent sweat and chafing under their bosoms?)
as a woman with those particular dangly bits: even in a great lakes winter it gets sweaty down there, especially because i’m wrapped up in more layers than a motherlode cake from claim jumper since i hop between being inside and outside constantly.
The pube shedding though is from people not properly washing, shampooing, and maintaining their nether regions.
okay grav roulette, you win this time. This is the *perfect* robin grav for my comment
I’m not AMAB.
Some people have different tastes. When I had to sort through old clothes to donate to Good Will, my mom always had me just chunk the underwear while every other clothing was donated. I don’t think it’s an American thing I think it’s just… comfort levels. You feel comfortable borrowing underwear, that’s fantastic. Other people don’t.
Meh. Sometimes it’s a choice between borrowing your friends clean underwear and wearing the same dirty pair everyday. One of those is a lot more likely to cause an infection and it ain’t the clean ones. Becky had, quite literally, nothing by the clothes on her back. And the panties on her ass. She would’ve had to borrow until she could buy new ones. I remember doing it as a kid, I don’t see the big deal
Sounds pretty sexy to me. And it’s not like they aren’t already fucking.
if they are washed itd b fine! imo
Big “oh shit” energy from last panel Dorothy. I’m glad to see Becky isn’t sure they’ve broken up, though. I’m still holding out some hope that this will just be a rough patch for them.
I do wonder about Becky’s take in panel 2. Maybe keeping the Joyrothy out of sight doesn’t make her feel better, but it’s hard to believe that having it in sight wouldn’t make her feel worse.
Becky probably has every reason to believe that she and Dina are broken up, but I suspect if you brought the question to Dina she wouldn’t give you the same answer
I think Dina is a similar position to Joe right now. They’re waiting for a conversation that may never come. It’s up to Becky to initiate but I don’t think she will.
Becky, you asshole. Get over yourself. Joyce isn’t available to you and never will be. You don’t have any business leaving Dina untended. You don’t have any business hurting the girl that loves you with all her heart because your feelings are hurt. Go make up with her at once.
This is not something you should say to someone struggling with suicidal ideation. Be kind to people.
yeah, wrong messaging, right message. Gotta tell her to stop bein an asshole and talk to Dina in a nicer way lol
They aren’t, though – they’re saying it ABOUT a comic strip character. There’s no reason to assume they would speak in this way TO someone in distress.
By that metric you probably would have to avoid saying it to anybody cuz outside of someone telling you blatantly that they’re suicidal there’s literally no way for anyone to know how much someone is considering suicide.
????? there are many ways to tell someone is not doing well without
explicitly knowing someone is suicidal
especially if one is close to the hypothetical person
also i mean i wouldnt talk to someone like this in general
unless they are being an asshole???? and becky isnt, shes having mental
health issues….
Me when I have 0 empathy to experiences outside of my own:
i know its a comic but like, its being more realistic about
how someone would react in real life to this kinda thing
in real life “get over yourself” isnt a game plan that
helps in this situation
shes a young lesbian whose been traumatized
as fuck, ideally she needs a therapist and a friend group who will
support her
Except Joe was actually in a relationship with Joyce. I would definitely be enjoying this juicy drama more if the story hadn’t been pretty much brushing over Joe in comparison.
I think you’re right, although this strip gives me some hope that Becky hasn’t given up yet. She needs to figure out if she’s able to really put Dina first, and if she is, have a serious conversation with her. I think Dina would be open to that.
Sometimes if you’re an overthinker, it’s better to exposure therapy your way through it. Because don’t get me wrong, it absolutely sucks. But sometimes your brain tortures yourself so much worse that having it actually be real and present is a relative relief. Then you can start moving past it.
I’m this way for sure. I am SO much more unhappy and stressed about something being hidden from me than I am being around something that I need to get over and come to terms with.
I often have to remind myself that the way to stop worrying about something is to do it and that the doing is usually less awful than the worrying. Doesn’t make it suck any less and it’s still hard to do, and I feel the same resentment I get when other people tell me what to do, but it’s true. The truth is just really annoying.
The truth IS really annoying.
We recently saw a variation of this over in QC (Jeph’s comic), where it was actually something of a relief to Elliot when Clinton finally did break up with him, because he could stop constantly obsessing and spiraling about the possibility.
I think Becky’s logic in panel 2 is like… partly “fake it ’til you make it”, partly “not interested in receiving any kind of symbolic goodwill from Dorothy”.
(Which is her right, she’s not required to be gracious or anything.)
I think there’s a certain point where it feels like both options make you feel bad enough that it doesn’t matter, even if one might be technically worse.
I think some of it is Dorothy being “out of her space” means Dorothy spending the night with Joyce instead of in their room… it’s definitely not something I’ve thought would be making Becky feel better.
I agree it would likely hurt Becky having it in sight, but there can also be something distressing about knowing something is happening just out of your (metaphorical) field of vision. (And now I’m thinking about the Killer’s “Mr. Brightside.”)
If anything it’s almost worse if it’s happening out of sight! Lets your mind wander, don’t it?
Sarah, on the other hand, would much prefer it to happen out of her sight and hearing.
Dina and Becky being broken up validates Becky’s worldview that she’s not allowed to have anything. Religion fucks you UP.
what’s that Dorothy? There were consequences???? You didn’t think about???? Wow
…why should she? Like why on earth should she have considered that kissing someone would have made someone who wasn’t dating that someone break up with her girlfriend? Dina and Becky aren’t broken up because Dorothy kissed Joyce and this is a natural consequence. They’re broken up because Becky never moved on.
this x1000
really hate the number of people across many fandoms who blame the sapphics for anything that goes wrong after they get together, pinning it straight on them getting together
(I was there, Gandalf, when the Legend of Korra Wikipedia edit wars raged)
And it’d pretty conceited for Dorothy to blame herself and Joyce kissing on Becky and Dina (maybe) breaking up.
They were acting like they knew this would have a major negative impact on Becky (until they got distracted by talking about how they fell into the truest of true loves).
Also, it’s not yet clear whether Becky is still carrying a torch for Joyce or if this is simply hitting her hard because Joyce didn’t find her in the least bit attractive. We’ve seen that Becky is very insecure about something happening to make Dina lose her attraction for her, and also pretty insecure about the idea of Dorothy becoming Joyce’s new best friend. Nearly everyone in her life outside of this school has either left or turned against her. So finding out that Joyce was gay after all, just not for HER… well. Lots of complicated feelings there.
It’s pretty clear there’s more going on than just Becky still carrying a torch, though that may well be part of it. That’s the only part Dina sees, I think, which is why this hit her so hard.
Also, Becky being outed lead to an awful domino effect of her and Joyce getting held at gunpoint, Becky getting Kidnapped, Amazi-Girl getting thrown through the windshielf of a moving car, her dad and Amber’s dad creating the League of Shitty Dads, KIDNAPPING Joyce and Becky’s other friends, her dad getting brained in front of those friends and Mike dying. (All as consequnce/a trial from God for being Gay as far as Becky seems to have connected the dots) while Joyce gets outed and…her dad is kinda confused but supportive. Becky’s been through a lot this last few (trying to remember what month DoA is currently in rn) Months, the weird sort of “falling in shit and coming out smelling like roses” luck Joyce seems to have just twists the knife. THEN there’s the “I loved you since before I knew what this kind of love was” feelings that wouldn’t just evaporate too.
the Demon Anxiety residing in Dorothy’s brain 🤝 select members of the commentariat
“[x] is dorothy’s fault”
Pretty much the first thing that occurred to the new couple was the impact on Becky. They considered faking their deaths. They thought becky would be extremely impacted. I’m insure why people keep insisting on some other set of circumstances.
This is not even a tiny bit Dorothy’s fault.
Becky running into the cold hard truth that Joyce is obviously into girls and her crush didn’t like her back for reasons deeper than misaligned orientations was inevitable, and if Becky imploded her very stable relationship because of that, that’s sad but not really Dorothy’s responsibility.
Dorothy feeling guilty make sense. She’s an empathetic person and there is a clear causal relationship, it’s not wrong for it to weigh on her conscience, but this is not something she did wrong.
She has actually done some shitty things lately. Restarting things with her ex to try to get ahead of her romantic feelings for a girl and smooching someone who was dating someone else at the time are both pretty selfish and shitty.
Should probably swap the second and third paragraphs here.
That’s funny. The consequences Dorothy and Joyce should have thought about are the ones for Walky and Joe. Instead they have been worrying more about Becky…and yet that’s the one you’re blaming Dorothy for.
Becky herself recognizes that her feelings around Joyce (and whatever else) are a personal problem. She can still feel them, while also being aware that taking out her misery on her friends isn’t appropriate, and that she has/had her own commitment with someone else.
Becky’s most of the way there to dealing with it, all that’s left is to wrangle the feelings in a way that isn’t destructive. Talking it out with someone would probably help, as keeping it to herself (badly) doesn’t seem to be working for her.
I cannot stress enough as a Consequences(tm) Enthusiast, this ain’t it. Protecting Becky’s feelings is not and has never been Joyce and Dorothy’s responsibility.
Dorothy is absolutely going to blame herself for this when she shouldn’t, once again reinforcing that both her and Joyce care way more about Becky than they do about the actual partners they cheated on, partners who continue to be bit players in the endings of their own relationships. I’d like for the Consequences to involve and revolve around the *actual* parties involved, please! Until then, this is firmly in the category of “side effect collateral damage.”
Dottie literally had a conversation with Dina where this came up. So, apparently, she wasn’t listening to half of it.
Or maybe Dina didn’t really really wanna talk about it.
Dina didn’t directly tell her they’d broken up, is the thing…
real turning of the tables moment for Dina of all people to be the one be communicating obliquely about her true feelings!
Squares with the theory that Dina doesn’t think they broke up. Yet.
uuuuuugh why is Becky wrecking things for herself
and why is everyone acting like she owns Joyce somehow
Nobody’s acting like she “owns” Joyce.
Becky is. Dorothy kinda seems to be too.
I think we all knew Becky still wanted Joyce, but I think most people I’ve seen already feel like she’s gotta move passed wanting to be with her. Like; Becky was okay with Joyce getting with every dude she dated for less than a week before, but knowing that there was a CHANCE (not zero in her mind) that Joyce and her could’ve gotten together is breakin her.
That being said, Joyce seems to like the whole “Dorothy is in charge” thing so far. She literally is happy to have a girlfriend with instructions lol
I am pretty sure Becky has low self-esteem and is therefore assuming the worst, thereby helping bring about a negative self-fulfilling prophecy.
Also, of course everybody is acting like Becky owns Joyce. She called dibs. What sort of savages would we be if we didn’t expect that most ancient and scared of traditions? What next, just letting passengers ride wherever instead of frantically fighting over who called “Shotgun!” first?
Becky’s life is abandonment issues and feeling terror and anxiety every time her foundation of her self and her friends and her family is shaken.
In that position of vulnerability, she keeps taking everything that happens in proximity to her to underline her sense of worthlessness and lack of value. Such as Hank Brown saying “you could do worse than Dorothy” and her assuming that meant her. Joyce not being gay also fits into that. So does Dina rejecting her. And so on and so forth.
shes traumatized and feeling things, shes not making it joyces problem, shes trying pretty hard to keep it to herself ????? she isnt doing anything wrong to anyone but herself, which is understandable but yea.
Hoping and thinking that might be a surprise to Dina.
Gotta say I’m getting some very low leadership energy from these two right now. And after such a good start from Becky. That’s a shame.
Professor runs through and points at them both. “THIS IS NOT LEADERSHIP!”
Mike’s ghost appears and dropkicks them. Professor O’Ryan: “Now that’s leadership!”
(Note: I imagine this not actually hurting them because Mike’s a ghost, but I guess it depends on your rules for ghosts.)
Oh it’d hurt, it’d just have no lasting effects, e.g. Coyote in the Road Runner cartoons being endlessly blown up. xD
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
The comic that successfully launches Walky’s career.
Just wanted to say that Nymph’s comments and your segue are actually hilarious. Please draw this strip, Willis.
Becky you should probably talk to Dina about that
100%
No, it’s way more comfortable to her to just assume no one loves her and she’s worthless. This is my hole, it’s made for me.
Wonder how many readers are cackling with manic glee right now. Consequences!
This is still consequences for Joyce and Dorothy being gay, not the cheating.
….. what?
Becky is not sad because Joyce and Dorothy cheated. She did not break up with Dina (maybe) because they cheated.
She is sad and maybe broken up because Joyce is gay and not gay for her. And also is having a slightly easier time coming out as gay (I refuse to call being forcibly outed an ‘easy time’ but certainly her dad didn’t turn up with a shotgun so the bar is low).
The consequences, therefore, are for J&D being gay and not for them cheating. Most people who wanted consequences wanted them to be cheating-related because only an asshole thinks people deserve consequences for being gay.
There are still consequences to be had since Joyce has not come out to her mother yet, but yeah, multiple kidnapping attempts seem unlikely.
I was explaining what Dot meant because Bry seemed unclear, not explaining my own personal feelings.
Sorry, I shouldn’t have said “consequences”, I was just thinking about how easy Joyce’s coming out had been. It’s not all done yet.
This would, once again, still be consequences for the being bisexual and not the cheating, which still renders the cheating plotline mostly pointless. Still holding out hope that it kickstarts an angry arc from Walky because that has everything to do with cheating, nothing to do with them being bi, and would lead to really good character development for him. (He could get similar from rebounding onto someone like Raidah, but that’s once again a thing that could’ve happened without cheating.)
Yeah, the Becky consequences of this is something I don’t much care for because I hate that shes going through a crisis of faith and breakup because of Dorothy/Joyce. I’d like to see disaster and drama with Dorothy and Joyce because I find that interesting but I’d like it to come from their actual choices from people actually with a reason to be affected.
Becky is being affected because she feels entitled to Joyce.
Your first paragraph has been my thought process for nearly the entire past year. Would be nice to have Dorothy and Joyce’s agency as characters actually be relevant to the aftermath of the choices they make.
Yup, 1000%.
I’m sure Raidah is happy about it.
who am I kiddin, that woman is never happy.
People wanted consequences for the cheating. This is the consequences for whatever’s left of the torch Becky carried for Joyce and/or her deep insecurities about not being good enough for people.
I would’ve preferred more negative consequences for Joyce and Dorothy for their cheating and other shitty behavior towards other people in their friend group, not Becky being sad and possibly wrecking her relationship with Dina because Joyce is attracted to another woman and not her.
Is it wrong that Dorothy’s little smile in panel 4 is actually making me mad. Like, Dotty. I don’t think you’re there. You’re not even halfway there. You’re not even in the city limits. You’re gathering up your things right now so you can stay with her childhood crush and probably fuck her all weekend or longer. We’re not at “polite knowing smile” territory. Not even close.
also “Let me get out of your space” is such a backhanded insult to a roommate imo. It’s like a rejection that this is “our” space. Even if I’m mad at my roommate he’s still welcome in our home. If he refers to it as just “my” space then it feels like he feels no connection. To me it’s the same vibe as “my child’s parent”.
Ok come on at least the other thing sorta happened now you are just making stuff uo to get mad at.
I assume she means “your space” as in your personal bubble, not the physical room
Yeah that one’s more of a personal pet peeve of mine which is why I made it a separate comment.
Yes actually. I think that at least is very weird. It is just a smile. A barely noticeable one at that.
Yeah, pretty normal human reaction to smile in an awkward and uncomfortable situation for reasons besides joy, especially when trying to extend an olive branch and provide some help to someone also in the situation.
Nah I agree. I really haven’t been feeling the vibes Dorothy has been putting out this interaction. I know she means well and I can respect the attempt at sincerity but this is all after trying to sneak past Becky. It still feels like pity and condescension.
Yeah. Honestly, it seems to me that the message that Dorothy is trying to send and the message that Becky is receiving are far enough apart that the distance is measured in light-years.
Nah, I agree. That’s the kind of smile you’d give if things look like they’re on the mend. It’d make sense for her to smile like that right after Becky told her that it’s fine – not right after Becky makes it clear that it’s not, actually.
When I say “Dorothy’s looking for exoneration, not forgiveness” this is the shit I’m talking about
“I don’t want me dating Joyce to affect your relationship with her so I’m offering to give you some time together without me if you want” *gives a polite smile to show that she cares*
Yep seems real evil to me
Absolutely malevolent.
To be fair I didn’t say evil. I said “we’re not there yet”. There’s miles of space between good and evil.
I think Dorothy’s expression was going for sympathetic there, not a smile. You can still find it condescending that she’s even trying, though.
IMO this is just more of the same dynamic she and Becky have had since they met for the first time. Dorothy has always tried to patiently extend olive branches, and Becky has always treated Dorothy as a rival. It’s entirely Becky’s fault that she wasn’t on better terms with Dorothy prior to this.
This is definitely *not* their old dynamic because Becky was very clearly playing in the old dynamic and she is being very serious here. Even if she might’ve felt the animosity, it wasn’t meant to be read as animosity she was showing. She’s not going to be having that playful rivalry with Dorothy anymore, methinks, because now she has real beef with Dorothy and real beef isn’t something to joke about.
[Mind you, I still think it’s BS because she didn’t own Joyce, but I very much appreciate Becky being very no-nonsense about this performative nonsense. Even if it were just to apologize for hurting a friend, Dorothy’s gone about this the most insincere seeming way she could that wasn’t just sticking a hand out for a handshake like Joyce.]
starting to sound like a “Bongo eating crackers” problem, if that little smile got you that heated lol
Also Dorothy did you maybe even consider that Becky might not even want to see Joyce right now
Dorothy is trying. Can’t know what Becky needs/wants if Becky doesn’t voice it, and Becky might not know what she needs right now. Everyone just needs time/space and I’m still voting for Dorothy swapping rooms with Dina or Amber.
I mean, Dina is freshly maybe-broken-up with Becky and Amber has trouble getting down to go to toilet… To which one of them should Dorothy suggest the swap?
She offered. She didn’t command. Asking is how you find things out.
don’t they have shared classes together? even if college isn’t as strict on assigned seating they’d have to bump into each other eventual;y
Yes, I think both Biology and Poli Sci are tomorrow (in-strip). The question is if Becky will show up for them.
Starting another Dorothy appreciation thread early today. I start: it’s very nice of her to eant to give Becky the chance to hang out with Joyce without her so she doesn’t fell like she will be left out of her life because of their relationship.
Dorothy is, in fact, trying her best. It may not be what Becky wants, but Dorothy is trying. Is Becky?
Ok, please don’t use the appreciation thrend to try to bash another character, that it’s not what it’s for.
Throughout the story, for the most part, Dorothy has wanted the best for everybody involved. Her entire reason for going to college was to study politics and become the president and change the country for the better, make it a good place for everybody to live happily.
She is a GOOD PERSON.
Dorothy had her whole world view come crashing down around her fairly recently, that will shake anybody. She has had to come to terms that no matter how much she wants to do good and make the world better, she just can’t do it how she always planned, it is gonna be SIGNIFICANTLY harder with a much higher chance of failure. She got super depressed and started spiraling into self doubt and self hate. She tried to push away that feeling by fucking Walky, and that didn’t help because she was a different person then when she was starting to fall for him (They are both different people then when they first got together). She then finds out her best friend is going through a crisis because her Sister is in town and at a protest that could end with them in the hospital, on top of their Conservative father also being in town, leading to EVEN MORE stress and confusion. Then, in an act of pure passion and adrenaline, gets confessed to mid battlefield and realizes she is in love with her best friend, who she doesn’t think she deserves fully, while they were both dating other people. Leading to even more confusion and being even more thrown off her game.
Dorothy is Struggling right now, has been for a while but shit keeps getting stacks on top of the pile. Yes she is happy to be with Joyce now, they are very much in love and have been for a while, but that is also tied to a mountain of guilt thanks to the handling of the situation with Becky, which adds on to the self hate and her habit of blaming herself for shit. Now she is told that the possibly strongest couple of everybody she knows has potentially broken up, and thanks to her self hate and misplaced guilt, is gonna think its her fault.
She is a Disaster, She needs therapy (tbf the entire cast REALLY needs therapy), and she really needs to be told that everything is going to be okay, that not everything is her fault, that she doesn’t need to feel guilty about everything. She can just take a step back, get married to her girlfriend, and continue trying to follow her dreams.
Yeah, I like the framing of Dotty still being a good person and trying despite her fuck ups and struggles. It’s something that can be easy to miss in the moment when her actions are hurting people. Glad to see her still trying
“Hurt People hurt people” is a good saying.
If you yourself are not in a good headspace, your not going to be able to properly help somebody else and are not going to be able to easily see something from their perspective. Even more so if your particular bad headspace is filled with Self Hate and misplaced Guilt.
This is why EVERYBODY needs therapy, and should rely on a therapist for help with their mental issues, because most people don’t know how to properly talk to you about your issues and will most likely just be repeating whatever bullshit they saw on the internet or are going to use their own experiences and how they dealt with a situation to try and help you, which almost never works.
It is considerate of her, think it makes for a stronger apology. Just that she didn’t know how poorly Becky was doing… and now that she’s being let in on that a little, that actually makes me hopeful in regards to my worries about Becky. Dorothy’ll want to help her, and she’s already shown with Ruth that she’ll reach out to others if she can’t do it herself.
I don’t have more to add right at this very minute but I am happy reading other people sayin’ stuff.
She’s a great character and I am loving all her fumbling the ball of life after doing something she actually wanted
She finally stopped thinking about consequences for 5 seconds and it didn’t go well, which is not fun if this were real, but narratively it’s delightful
Also she keeps trying and I love that about her, she cares so much
Idk if this counts as appreciation but I’ve said before she doesn’t click with me as a character no matter how much I want her to, for various reason. I don’t think that’s actually true…? When I dig deep and try to analyze her, like break her down piece by piece… something within me resounds? I said a little bit yesterday about struggling to recognize my own feelings, and talked about how dotty is constantly performative in a way I relate to, autistically. I think a little bit of that is happening. Something from a deep dark ocean trench bubbles up to the surface when I think about her real hard. I tried writing a thing about it yesterday bc it’s a really interesting metatextual experience. But it’s too hard to really describe yet. I don’t…enjoy her, on a simple level. It’s not like how my favorite characters just deposit serotonin into my brain. But there’s some kind of connection there that I just can’t recognize yet. I see some of myself in her but I think there’s deeper feelings than that. She’s not blorbo, or skrongly. I don’t know what she is to me. It’s fascinating. And a little uncomfortable bc it’s always weird noticing things about yourself that you were blind to. But I want more.
Maybe I’ll write an actual essay or something idk
I agree, and it’s really a significant gesture considering how this early in a new relationship you want to spend every possible moment with your partner. Dorothy’s really making a statement about how Becky can and should still have an important place in Joyce’s life.
Everyone’s been debating about whether Dorothy is doing the best possible job in this conversation, (probably not, because she’s human), but the most important thing is that everything is coming from a place of kindness and understanding for Becky, and that’s very Dorothy.
dorothy is trying her best! especially given her world view has kind of fallen apart around her
The new hair gives Becky a gravitas she previously lacked. The big swoop paired with default grin made it difficult to take anything she said seriously.
Not entirely sure the grin was part of the haircut, tbh
AAAAAAAAAAND the regret (guilt?) is kicking in.
*Plays “Kronos Unveiled” on the Hacked Muzak*
(dang havent heard someone mention hacked muzak in a solid minute.)
Those conses just keep on quencing, don’t they?
I think the problem I’m having with all this fallout from Joyce and Dorothy hooking up is that almost everyone has become unlikable and the people I do sympathize with I barely get to see and it has been mostly to shit on them. I wanna see Dina, I wanna see, Joe, we saw Walky but he basically got an “That’s rough, buddy.” As Joyce felt absolutely no sympathy or self awareness, like to the point you’d think she was the villain of the week.
And like here. I’m not really digging Dorothy’s attempt at comforting Becky, but I admit that’s likely just bias from me or something, but it’s not like Becky’s really coming off great here either. She’s got the least stake in Dorothy and Joyce as a couple yet she’s the most upset?
I’m really happy this couple has made everyone near it worse as a person.
I really don’t think that’s the case? I don’t really have anything more than that. I just can’t see it from that perspective.
Becky has plenty of stake in this. Just because she hasn’t put a penis in anyone involved doesn’t mean she was any less in love or any less close to this. And she’s got real-world experience with coming out that makes this look like happy fun time land for Dorothy and Joyce.
Also she’s worried she and Dina are broken up.
IDK I think she has a lot of very valid reasons to be having Big Sad about the situation.
Yeah if I almost died coming out, and then my close friend came out a couple months later and had what seemed like a breezy, whimsical jaunt to their first gay experience, I’d feel some type of way about that
With some from extra brain chemicals from jumping into action to help save my best friend!… who then turned out to be fine actually, okay, well, I’ll just go have some excitation-transfer while ruminating, I guess.
I mean if Becky is really upset that Joyce has had an easier time coming out than she had I think that’s understandable. It’s not really something she’s articulated yet though. At least not in this moment.
I believe you, I’m just here to say, I cannot in any way shape or form relate
I think she’s got “investment” but not stake? Like she can feel upset about someone she likes having an easier coming out than she did but like. Joyce and Dorothy hooking up only really effects Becky because she’s still holding a torch for Joyce. It’s more of an internal drama than external? Like Dorothy cheats on Walky means that Walky loses a romantic partner. Dorothy dating Joyce means…Becky still has a girlfriend that loves her very much. Nothing has changed for her except the things she’s changed for herself.
Sure, whatever word you want to use for it is fine. She’s still sad for a valid reason and it makes sense to me.
I mean yeah. People are more or less justified to be sad about anything. It would be harsh and unfair to deny someone a right to their own emotions.
It’s not so much that people are denying her a right as it is that people are judging her for very reasonable feelings and I think that’s weird!
Fair. I think I’m less annoyed about her being upset and moreso the framing. I don’t necessarily think she’s being particularly unlikable here.
As others have pointed out, it is weird that the biggest narrative consequences so far are for DoJo being queer. I like the focus on Becky’s feelings bc I think they’re really complicated and interesting, but. Idk how I feel about the most guilt being felt for the party that got some bad collateral damage, but wasn’t wronged? Like this was gonna happen either way, regardless of the weird cheating plot. And the harm of them two being gay is being framed as worse than the harm of them cheating? One of those things is an actual bad and hurtful thing to do, and the other is being gay. It’s the pacing issue again, it’s weird that we’re spending so much more time on it than the thing that would usually be more consequential.
Because it’s really a coming out story that only dips a toe into the idea of being a cheating story.
And I think that’s a bad narrative decision? If anything, including the cheating just seems to distract from the coming out element. It’s day 2 and we’re only just now getting Joyce’s internal thoughts and feelings about this. I dunno, I don’t vibe with it being a “coming out story” being a catch all excuse for how it’s been written because I feel like in terms of coming out stories I’ve read I ALSO don’t like how it’s paced or written?
Becky never had a stake in Joyce and Dorothy’s relationship. She doesn’t have ownership of Joyce’s sexuality or romantic affection. Thinking she does is what created the rift between her and Dina. She was not valuing Dina as a partner over Joyce or valuing herself as a person without Joyce’s romantic love. She should feel bad that her relationship with Dina is in jeopardizing but not because of anything Joyce and Dorothy did.
You’re fighting things I didn’t say.
She has stake in her own damn feelings lmao. I didn’t say she had ownership of anything at all. She is allowed to feel sad about her crush not liking her, it’s a super normal feeling that everyone is treating really weird for no reason.
She isn’t punishing Joyce or Dorothy, blaming them, or seeking them out to make this their problem. Why can’t she just have some sad feelings that take more than a day to get over?
I feel like you’re also extrapolating things I haven’t said. I think it’s fine for Becky to feel sad about it. But that doesn’t mean she has any stake in Dorothy and Joyce as a couple. That’s all I said. And I don’t think Becky is coming off great because just yesterday or a moment ago in comic time she was trying to get Dorothy to take off her coat to reveal she is wearing Joyce’s clothes. It’s a silly joke but also a bit of an overreach in boundaries that Becky really has no right to demand even if she feels bad.
I hope this better explains what I was meaning when I comment I think everyone is becoming worse from this.
“it’s not like Becky’s really coming off great here either. She’s got the least stake in Dorothy and Joyce as a couple yet she’s the most upset?”
“She doesn’t have ownership of Joyce’s sexuality or romantic affection. Thinking she does is what created the rift between her and Dina.”
“She should feel bad that her relationship with Dina is in jeopardizing but not because of anything Joyce and Dorothy did.”
So these were a few of the points I was specifically responding to when I said what I said. The first paragraph is a direct response, the second paragraph is me making the point I was trying to make in a new way because the first way failed. It was not intended as an extrapolation of anything you said, just an explanation of why I disagree that Becky is in any way coming off badly here or becoming worse.
I think she has a stake in this. The stake is “I had a crush on that girl my whole life and now I have to grieve the idea that we might have ever ended up together” which is a pretty big stake imo. She’s not “worse” for having feelings that aren’t fun and making them absolutely no one’s problem as best she can. Other than outright hiding how she feels, idk how else she could be less a problem about her sadness.
Then I should articulate better because I don’t have issue with any emotions expressed by the characters but certain actions that have been taken because of them. Joyce has been obnoxious, Dorothy has been avoidant, Becky has broken up with her girlfriend or at least not stopped her from walking out on their relationship. Everyone has a right to their emotions but they aren’t just existing in a vacuum, and I criticize Becky specifically because she’s currently sabotaging her real relationship over the loss of the idea of a relationship she never had.
o7 carry on then! I don’t agree with that take at all, but just saying “I don’t agree” again seems pointless.
I am not the biggest fan of Joyrothy’s arc at this point, but I kind of like the radiative fallout. This is a relationship that was formed in unpredictable and frankly toxic beginnings. Realistically, it’s going to bring some sort of mess. Becky having a hard time dealing and then the fallout with Dina is good writing. It just needs to come back home.
Dorothy is honestly in a lose-lose situation here. Nothing she says to Becky is going to make this better. Becky needs time to deal with this, and Dorothy’s big Achilles heel is that she’s kind of a control freak and doesn’t have the emotional capacity to let things happen. And literally every attempt to control it is making it worse.
To be fair, Billifer and Daisy were already unlikable before this.
I think Becky’s big defense in this conversation (because no I don’t think sullenly nuking your relationship is actually a warranted response to finding out Joyce is not into her. I wouldn’t give Danny that excuse if Dorothy getting with Joyce somehow signaled to him that they could ever get back together, I’m not giving Becky that excuse either. That said, I wouldn’t call her an add in the convo with Dina either because extenuating circumstance.) is that she didn’t seek it out. Like, yeah she’s pressured Dorothy, but Dorothy brought that on herself with her notarized bullshit apology.
If Dorothy had just been in there and acted normal, or was like “Hey, do you want to talk about this or do you need some space?” And taken the first answer she heard, Becky wouldn’t have demanded the coat off and wouldn’t be unloading here. Which probably would’ve been the worse thing to do, I still worry about Becky, but Dorothy’s in a lose/lose situation and still managed to find a worse/more condescending option lol.
(Ass*. I don’t deny that people are accountable for what they say and do during a mental health crisis, but I think the responsibility for witnessing one is to either get someone back down to some stable level or find someone who can before trying to make demands that they discuss the nature of one’s relationship, especially when this isn’t a pattern of manipulation or abuse previously established.)
Actually, now that I think about it, Dina should’ve been the one sending the wellness check from Ruth, not Dorothy. Dorothy didn’t see how Becky was the night before, what the fuck Dina.
Also to clarify, I laugh about Dorothy finding a worse, third option because I love Dorothy *because* she does condescending bullshit mostly on accident.
Becky, have you thought that maybe you should talk to her before assuming that?
(If she’s right I’ll have your head, Willis)
“I think” doesn’t imply assumption. It implies uncertainty.
heck, “I think Dina an’ I might be broken up.”
Please let this conversation be direct and without either of your performative bullshit.
lolz
I’m pretty sure both of them are performing that bullshit to an audience of their own minds, so I don’t think they know how to stop.
Still liking the lighting in these. Highlights in a low light situation. Epic. (well, not in the true sense of the word, but…)
. . . But at least Becky isn’t mad at Dorothy!
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2023/comic/book-13/02-turning-saints-into-the-sea/fullname/
“dorothy’s a piece of shit for writing an apology letter” “dorothy’s a piece of shit for wanting to give becky space” “dorothy’s a piece of shit for smiling” god forbid a doll do anything
Double-triple agreed.
There aren’t any villains here, people. Just a couple dorks in a shitty situation trying their best.
+1
Thirded.
Thanks, the smile part especially just dumbfounded me. I really shouldn’t had gotten invokved tho, fell like that going to turn into a headache kater.
Just don’t reply to anyone who messages you if you want to avoid the headache.
Personally I’m happy people pushed back on that. The level of policing that happens around the tiniest fucking actions from Dorothy is wild to me.
Yeah should do that but you know, 👍 addicted to this god forsaken place. Nice to know at least you are happy with that, that make it fell worth it.
Valid <3 I like commenting here, but any time it become annoying for me instead of fun I just bounce until it's fun again. I totally get how that's not easy for everyone though! Hope you have a better time of it today.
Thanks, appreciate it. Hope you do too
Yep yep yep.
my memetake is that dorothy keener is spiritually transfem and my evidence for this is that the commentariat (metaphor for society) is hates her and is praying for her downfall
(i also have real, non-rage-driven reasons for this take but im not writing that essay right away)
Cis women also experience this level of bullshittery from people at large (notably different than trans women experience, but from a similar shitbag place). Not sure where that moves your needle, but I support your headcanon.
This is true, for the sake of being scathing I have kinda skimmed over how the commentariat at large also does this to other women in the cast (primarily women of color such as Sal and Sarah and Raidah, plus Joyce who i also have weird transfem opinions about), so I’ve been a bit narrow by describing this as Dorpy-specific.
“Dorothy is spiritually transfem” is primarily a bit driven by a combination of “i am a transgender woman and i find Dorothy Keener to be particularly relatable” and “Dorothy Keener is a puppygirl with conetits who comp-tops her chaser girlfriend” and the joke reading keeps getting bolstered by both things that happen in the comics and the enabling of people I talk to about the comic. (shoutout to tumblr user dorothykeenersleftdoinker <3)
The second paragraph is why I super support your headcanon. I like that vibe and see no issues with it.
Your headcanon also has my ax, metaphorically speaking.
I just feel obliged to point out that Joyce is clearly the dom in their relationship. Does that change anything?
Other than that, no quibbles here.
I have always been team Joyce Is The Dom! It’s just that so far in Joyce and Dorothy’s sex, Joyce has been letting Dorothy most of the topping. There’s a brief, shining moment where Joyce takes the lead during the Slipshine but it gets interrupted and by the time they’re back to fucking, Dorothy’s taken back over again. They’re both switches, it’s fine.
I’m like 90% sure Dominant Joyce is the intended reading of the dynamic, but Willis does this Thing that bothers me in their smut writing where they’ll post about a character doing sex a certain way and then just… not write that. Like, they post like that with Danny saying he’s a sub/bottom, and then every time he has on-screen sex he’s going on top and being Incredibly Good At It. It betrays very vibes-based perception of dominance and submission that bothers me a little bit, because dammit I want to see these dynamics fuck in the way that was advertised! Let Joyce peg Dorothy! Let Sal peg Danny!!!
Literalllyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.
Saw one about how Actually her writing an apology letter and (checks notes) 100% accidentally running into Becky when neither of them expected it was evidence she wanted to control everyone. What the hell do people want exactly. Every smile she ever has to be pre-empted with ‘IM AWARE I AM A BAD PERSON AND SHOULD GROVEL MORE’ now.
(in before someone goes No Obviously I Just Want Her To Experience Cheating Consiquences)
Like I said yesterday, I think some of this is coming from folks for whom “Willis has deliberately made Joyce and Dorothy insufferable and we’re supposed to hate them” is kind of their last real hope for narrative catharsis here.
So, Dorothy CAN’T be genuinely sorry that she hurt Becky, and she CAN’T be trying her best here (and sucking at it). It’s gotta just be some sort of front. Because the alternative is…
Well, for you and me, nothing bad happens, but for these folks it’d be a lot like if Joyce’s Nu Atheist turn had been permanent, instead of a self-effacing cul-de-sac.
IDK this might be some of it, but Dorothy has always been one of those characters people villainize over the smallest things.
I think people would benefit from letting themselves not like a character without having to create, like… a logic and morals based argument for why the character is unlikable. I generally don’t like Dorothy, but it’s not that I think she’s a bad person (and if went to highschool together, she’s the character who would most likely be in my friend group). She’s not a character I feel as interested in reading about most of the time. It’s totally subjective and coming from me.
(Real life equivalent– there can be people you don’t like and… it doesn’t have to be that they’re bad people. Sometimes people get really invested about how someone sucks, actually, when it’s just… not having the same sense of humor or communication/conversational styles. And you can still not like them (just, yknow, don’t be a jersey about it).)
Jersey was an autocorrect for jerk, my phone fuckin hates NJ or something.
It hates Old Jersey, too. It did not discriminate… except against Jersey.
NJ stands for Nary Jane, so named because she’s not in a single comic book.
Oh, absolutely.
I, personally, don’t like Dorothy at all and ALSO don’t think she’s necessarily a bad or nefarious person. But people assume if I’m criticizing her that that IS what I’m saying and so I have to defend a strawman of how I feel rather than how I actually feel about her.
Unfortunately, when so many of the comments criticizing her do come from people who either actively are saying these things or else say them so frequently that they’re known for thinking it about Dorothy, the occasional innocent person who just dislikes Dorothy for perfectly chill reasons is gonna not be taken in good faith.
That, I think, goes back in part to the “book-smart girl who was already sexually active and unashamed of it when she arrived at school == mature and worldly, therefore every time she makes a clumsy mistake, it must be something she’s doing on purpose out of meanness” part I keep harping on about, heh.
I think she also got off to a bad start with a lot of commenters when she chose career aspirations over romantic love, and but pretty much every mistake she’s ever made with any character is easily reconstituted into something she was doing on purpose, because she’s manipulative, if you’re really determined not to see how earnest, socially awkward, and ND she is.
inb4: of course ND people can be manipulative. I didn’t actually say they couldn’t! There are just a LOT of Dorothy Takes that specifically rely on her being a looooot better at, like, reading social cues, and instinctively knowing the correct, appropriate way to behave in any given situation, than she actually is.
Supporting evidence for Dorothy not being great at understanding how to deal with people:
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-7/01-glower-vacuum/groundswell/
Yeah absolutely, with a healthy dose of “femme characters just get that particular end of the stick” sadly.
I want Dorothy to make bad and horrible choices because I think it would be interesting as well as a sign that she has places to go character-wise. Her having a selfish arc is something I support like with Joyce.
Sort of like how I want Dina to find something in science that contradicts her existing beliefs.
I was really and truly not talking about any one specific person, just a general trend.
So if you don’t think “reader who’s currently trying kind of too hard to rationalize why Dorothy trying to apologize to Becky is proof that she only cares about herself” describes you, perhaps it doesn’t.
Yeah, I’m over here like… yeah, Dorothy is a piece of shit for almost all those things, she’s in a lose/lose situation right now and sincerity has never been her speciality. She does performative shit all the time that’s solely meant to make her feel better. (She would not have been a piece of shit for asking Becky if she needed space and taking her at face value if the answer was yes.)
I LOVE Dorothy being a piece of shit, she’s a realistic piece of shit, she’s the same piece of shit I was back in uni. She’s gotta learn that not everything is about her and cannot be fixed with a notarized apology or a eulogy given at a Halloween party. I don’t like people’s weird sanitation of her like she’s not doing weirdly asshole things because Dorothy wouldn’t give herself that grace, Dorothy KNOWS she does asshole things on accident, that’s why they snowball the way they do into *notarized apologies*!
Well, I agree that Dorothy would not give herself grace, lol. The difference is apparently that I think that’s because she’s anxious and has low self-esteem.
We also seem to have fundamentally different views of human behavior, because I don’t think people are assholes for the mistakes they make. “Asshole things done by accident…”
Call those of us who feel that way “sanitizers” if you gotta, I guess.
look at dorothy eating crackers.
If you listen closely, you can hear yet another spinning plate in Dorothy’s mind palace shattering in the last panel. Her past few months have just been like that.
We can rebuild her. We have the ideology.
Obviously I’m all for easing Dorothy into leftism, but I’m not sure how that’s gonna help her with this specific quagmire
Are Dina and Becky actually broken up? Because the last time we saw them together didn’t really feel like a break up to me. Maybe Becky should talk with Dina and confirm if they’re broken up or not.
Honestly, I could see it both ways. What Dina said heavily implied that it was over. “I deserve better” usually means “I deserve better than you”, but also Dina doesn’t really speak that much in implications. She could very well have meant the more literal interpretation, which is simply “I deserve better from you”.
I could easily see both. I’ve mostly been critical of recent story decisions, but I think this is one of the ones that is really, really good. Miscommunication is realistic, especially in a couple that is autistic-allistic. Becky is seemingly having an itching doubt about this, which means she as an individual is emotionally intelligent enough to realize that Dina may have meant something else.
As much as I love them as a couple, they needed to have this fight. It was just a matter of time. Whether or not they break up because of it, I still like the direction this is going. And even if they are broken up, there is a great chance for them to get back together after Becky has a chance to grow. I see them as my favorite OTP, to be honest.
Yeah, your first paragraph is my primary interpretation, but I wouldn’t be utterly stunned to see the opposite.
I also agree that the depiction of this miscommunication is strong, and that some kind of conflict was probably a good idea.
“I deserve better” is also something Dina never said, so I’m not sure what your point is.
Becky taking the worst interpretation of things wouldn’t surprise me.
My take is she crised her faith and torpedoed her relationship with Dina deliberately, albeit unconsciously.
Unlikely. Dina being Dina, if she had broken up with Becky she’d have stated so. She’s not really an implier. What she said to Becky was basically “make up your fucking mind”, and then she went to make sure Amber wasn’t dying, which takes priority over any and all of this bullshit.
Basically, that “I think [we] might” is doing a lot of heavy lifting there.
But remember the previous strip ended with “If yer gonna leave me, just do it.”
Which makes Dina leaving more portentious.
I mean. ya could go talk to HER about it, Beckster.
And dorothy…. ah hon. “Other people do things sometimes and it can be BECAUSE of you but outside of your power” is a lesson she may. Someday. Absorb.
I feel like taking some time to get herself back together is probably more sensible than going straight to Dina to clarify their relationship status. It doesn’t mean they won’t talk later on.
Becky’s fixin’ to abstract any day now.
Hell you can see the rainbow shapes in her eyes
Damn it Becky, stop being Dumb in this Dumbing of Age comic.
Go talk to Dina. Explain each other. Please!
Dina, explaining Becky: An attractive redhead with a lot of potential but too many hang-ups to make much use of it at the moment.
Becky, explaining Dina: Imagine a woman.
If someone just said “Imagine a woman.” to me without further context, Dina probably wouldn’t be the woman I’d imagine.
This is clearly a failing on my part.
God I wanna make a potential man meme for Becky now. I don’t think I’d even believe a word of it but it sounds so funny
When did Americans start saying “knickers”?
I think a lot of people find saying the one that is unfamiliar to them or hearing it far more jarring. Becky is just making her statement as uncomfortable as possible.
Get a fucking grip.
What did they say or do wrong??????
I assume Taffy is reading my comment as saying Becky is being uncool to Dorothy?
I think she’s in a place where she feels pretty miserable and is making things uncomfortable for herself as well.
There isn’t really a lot in the reply for me to grip onto though so I’m not sure what I’m supposed to be grasping.
That is just just not a thing anyone does. Chosing a weird word to “make things uncomfortable to themselves”. Taffy was probably reacting to the absurdity of that statement.
Becky is making a funny/unusual turn of phrase, likely to have half a moment of distance from her discomfort. Just a very small bit of humorous deflection. Walky does it all the time, too. A coping strategy that I recognize well. 🙂
I’m a lil frustrated once again a handful of people are treating the characters like they’re ment to have perfectly logical dialogue and reactions to any and all situations.
Like Dot doesn’t have our omniscient pov where we can hyper analyze every line of dialogue and every facial detail of a character during all their interactions to see how much they’re masking at any point.
And Becky isn’t going to just magically be over a love she had invested into for years just because she ended up falling in love with someone else. Ofcourse finding out Joyce is actually gay and just doesn’t love Becky, is going to suddenly bring back a lot of raw emotions.
I especially don’t think this is either of them trying to “own” Joyce, it’s just two people dealing with the emotions suddenly put infront of them and dealing with it badly but the best they can because they’re not computers
(this is such genuinely good character writing and it’s frustrating how much people seem to be against it just because it’s uncomfortable and messy)
This. Also something about breaking eggs to make an omelet.
Joe wouldn’t be as beloved as he is nowadays if we hadn’t watched his journey from major asswipe to learning and working at being better.
True, but Joe didn’t have an in-universe character constantly telling us how great he is when he was the worst version of himself. We keep being told that Dorothy is smart (admittedly by Joyce who is an unreliable judge of character) but it gets to a point where I legit can’t tell if I’m meant to think she is meant to be. I wouldn’t mind having a character cut through the BS and be like “dorothy clearly doesn’t know what the hell she’s talking about.”
I think that we’ve been told pretty consistently that Dorothy is smart intellectually and academically, but she’s socially a lot more inept than she thinks she is, (or that Joyce thinks she is.) I feel like that’s been pretty consistent throughout the history of the comic.
It’s absolutely this kind of reaction that makes me start protesting that Dorothy’s doing her best, fff.
Which isn’t the same thing as she’s doing the right thing or she’s not hurting anyone or she never makes mistakes…
Unsure if it’s just because this is happening slowly at one strip per day or because we’re all so deeply invested but. The hyper analysis of everyone and the assimption that whatever is happening right now is the only thing that’s ever gonna happen (i.e., “grr, he’s really just gonna let that punchline slide and not react to it?”, even though Willis definitely has a pattern of having characters react to the punchline in the next strip)… is a little frusteating, heh.
💙 Well said.
I agree with you that is good character writing. It puts me in mind of a strip where Willis describes the discipline that makes his writing feel so real. He keeps track of what a character does or doesn’t know at any time.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-4/03-up-all-night-to-get-vengeance/rails/
Nobody’s perfectly logical and smart unless they’ve just been cheated on in which case they are completely understanding and mature about the whole thing.
Becky, you absolute asshole! Dorothy and Joyce is not about you. Never was, never will be. Yet here you are, going scorched earth over someone who never actually was anything more than a friend to you, and a damn good friend, at that, finally finding happiness with someone.
Meanwhile, you’ve devastated someone who loves you and you’ve claimed to love back, and quite likely ruined a good, happy relationship over, what? An unreciprocated crush you by all decency should have put behind you once you joined a relationship with someone else.
If you still have any inkling that there might still be something that could be salvaged with Dina, perhaps you should take a moment out of selfishly martyring yourself in some pathetic woe-is-me self-victimization, and seek out Dina and try to seek forgiveness for your utterly despicable treatment of her, and ask for an, entirely undeserved, opportunity to repair your relationship with her.
Or was your supposed “friendship” with Joyce only about you trying to get into her pants, and Dina nothing more than your consolation prize for not succeeding?
You may have had a very rough couple of years (weeks in DoA time?) with plenty of trauma, but while that might explain some of your questionable choices and actions, they in no way excuse them.
If you hadn’t put your crush on Joyce behind you, entering into a relationship with Dina was both cruel and selfish. What you just did to Dina was cruel and selfish, regardless of if it originated out of some self-destructive response to finding out that while Joyce actually did have a thing for girls, she still didn’t have one for you.
That makes it, tomorrow there will be a Becky appreciation thread.
<3
bruh…. shes just sad a normal amount for this situation
Anyone else feeling like pacing/priority is what’s off about this storyline? I know some commenters just seem to dislike D&J, but that isn’t me.
Like, it feels like the impact on Becky–which isn’t even D&J’s “fault”–is the fallout from the kiss that D&J were *by far* the most aware/concerned about, and is the fallout we’re delving into by far the deepest and hitting by far the toughest emotional notes about.
With regard to telling Joe & Walky, addressing “disrespecting” the protest with Asma, Raidah, & Leslie, even Amber’s injuries, it feels like both the author/narrative, and D&J’s feelings in-universe, have been, “let’s get through that fairly quickly/lightly so we can really dig into worrying about Becky”.
I think things like Dorothy finding out that Joyce (whether she realizes it) has left Joe hanging were sort of more “immediate” and should’ve played out sooner this chapter, while maybe the Becky shoe should’ve taken a little longer into next chapter to drop?
Like, if you wanted to write a storyline about how D&J getting together would impact Becky’s various unresolved trauma, great…but that didn’t also need to be a cheating storyline. Just break D&W and J&J up over some time and get there organically.
Maybe that didn’t happen because the pacing of the strip is so slow it would’ve taken 4 more years to get there? Like is what really happened here that Willis decided that J&J getting together was a mistake that there wasn’t any way to mine years worth of material out of?
i dont know if i agree with that, we’re kinda just rotating between beats. We’ve intermediatly checked in with Walky where I think his self-isolation was a large part of why we haven’t seen him much but who also very recently got to have his emotional payoff in his outburst against Joyce which I assume will lead into a hard shift in their dynamic for the coming future.
Similarly Dot recenty got to once again address the effects their public outing had on the protest and Asma’s beat on that plot is still ongoing.
Amber is out of the picture atleast for now until she heals a bit more.
I don’t think we’ve rushed past anything, if anything I feel that narritively the dominos have finally finished being set up and now they’re finally starting to fall.
Eh, Walky kinda got in one zinger that his own sister didn’t even really back him up on (although the moment where Billie came to check on him was a nice one). But I think we’re taking the Becky stuff far more seriously so far.
But maybe in a few months it will have all played out and I’ll look back and say that you were right and I was just being impatient.
“I was just being impatient” is indistinguishable from “the pacing/priority feels off to me”, IMHO.
I mean, to a degree, I suppose. But DoA has always unfurled very slowly, and I’m fine with that.
So the thrust of my complaint isn’t “we’re taking too long to really get as deep and hard-hitting with Walky, Joe, etc”. It’s more “I’m not sure we’re ever *going to*. It feels like this has mainly been plotted as an investigation of how we’ve always known/feared that D&J getting together would inevitably crash out all of Becky’s unresolved traumas, and Willis doesn’t actually seem as interested as many commenters in the cheating aspect of it all.”
Which is to say, to be fair to YourCousinJay and Li, Willis could still very much prove me wrong.
+1
I sympathize with folks for whom the buildup has been too long for the amount of likely payoff we’re gonna get for certain things, but absolutely I agree that things are about to really start happening in consequences land.
The pacing only feels off because we can’t binge the storyline. Give it time and then reread and I bet it’ll feel a lot better. Literally like 80% of the comments about how much time it’s taking to address everything, I just want to shake the commenters gently back and forth while singing it’s a storyyyy and it takes time to tell because there’s only 4 panels a daaaaaay and if it pisses you off then leave for a whiiiiiile and then come baaaaaack, aaaaaaAAAAAAAAA.
Not, like. You specifically, to be clear. Just in general. As a writer, this has been really weird to see.
I’ve been reading this comic since I was 13 and I’ve never felt the strip a day slowness so god damn bad. It’s worse than usual here for some reason. Tbh probably not in small part due to way too many strips being dedicated to DoJo being cute, which if you don’t like them might as well be a blank page. Other couples didn’t really get that much concentrated fluff, or at least when they did it wasn’t in the middle of such tense set up that it made you go “fuck this, wheres the drama???? Why are we putting it off????”
*1
+1
+1
+1
I mean, you may well be right. But, also, go read the comment I just wrote to Big Z just above yours: I wasn’t really talking about the *speed* of events, but questioning what the *direction* of events seemed to be. Which, again, I could still very well be proven wrong and you could be right.
Woman, this is your first couple’s fight Dina did not spend brainstorming how to sooth you. Actually, it’s the first time friction escalated into a fight. You can salvage this if you try. You got to sooth her sometimes too.
So much sublimating and goofy coping mechanisms, you don’t admit to yourself when you’re upset. You can apologize for treating her like that and say you need some time to think about emotions that can’t be fixed or soothed away easily.
Geeze I want to shake these kids. What are you all, teenagers? With big emotions? Written by an lightly autistic person, exploring the failures of interpersonal problems? You’re pushing my buttons damn you Willis, and I love to hate it! AAAARRRRRRG!
I wouldn’t even classify it as a fight. It basically boiled down to Dina saying “I’m hurt”, Becky saying “It’s my fault” and Dina agreeing with that statement. It being a conversation with hurt feelings and negative emotions doesn’t automatically make it a fight. The big thing here was Dina not coddling Becky and comforting her with lies. (Which is the correct and mature thing to do, and frankly I think its what Becky needs long-term)
I’ve dated a lot of BPD women and I’ve had this conversation myself quite a few times (not trying to diagnose Becky at all, simply a statement that this behavior falls within a pattern I’ve seen quite a bit). Becky was expecting her self-pity to elicit a certain response and was entirely thrown when Dina didn’t give it to her. If she can get past her self-pity this will be mended rather quickly- but I think she’ll need to hear it direct from Dina first that hurting her is not automagically the end of a relationship. It’s only the end if Becky can’t get herself together and make it right- and it’s not Dina’s responsibility to put Becky back together for that.
That was a completely sincere apology to Becky.
The key is that Dorothy followed it up with some suggestion of action.
I never hated Dorothy. Making a token apology because it’s expected of you and easier than making one to the guy you cheated on is not evenn a little bit of a crime. Dorothy always thinks she means well. Most of the time she does but sometimes she’s selfish. Just like any 19 year old.
These consequences are weird, but I’m glad to see some of the implications hitting home for Dorothy, at least.
Still not a fan of this storyline, but I’ll take the improvement.
Good actions can have bad consequences. If the US went to national healthcare, tens of thousands of people would be out of work in the private insurance industry . Dorothy and Joyce finding love was always going to have consequences. Even Joyce, the starry eyed romantic, saw that.
Who thought they were betraying Becky? Joyce and Dorothy thought that. Right away. More concerning than Walky or Joe. Not sure how one can argue otherwise based on the text. https://www.dumbingofage.com/2025/comic/book-15/04-the-only-exception/catch-2/
Doesn’t mean they shouldn’t pursue their romance. Just that they recognized there would be consequences to deal with. Painful consequences. The course of true love never did run smooth.
Well, we should definitely combine with UBI, but also the private healthcare industry is a huuuge part of why losing a job is so devastating, so.
o3o I don’t think anyone is caught off guard that this is their priority.
I think people don’t LIKE that this is their priority. And by an extension the narrative’s priority.
Yeah Dotty, that was my reaction too…