Seeing the mix of annoyance and jealousy in Jennifer’s face is somewhat cathartic after her whole arx of treating her friends like dirt. Oh; and Asher too, I guess .
Jen’s smile there in Panel 2 is definitely reading to me as “aw, dorks in love… they’re still standing there. Why are they just staring at me? Oh, hell, they want me to pretend this is groundbreaking and interesting for everyone and not just them.”
Jennifer’s smile is decreasing at a rate which will result in a scowl the likes of which is only known to be worn by Ruth is she doesn’t get away from them within five minutes
“I’m pretty sure this character is designed to be deliberately annoying, in which case, the author should be congratulated for doing his job so well, and tactfully reminded that deliberately annoying is still annoying.”
I’m pretty sure Willis writes multiple characters and allows those characters to have authentic reactions to things, rather than using characters to instruct the audience on how to feel…?
Like, your annoyance is a completely valid emotional response! I’m glad Jennifer has been providing folks with some catharsis. I personally continue to hope that she’s reacting this way because she cares about Walky.
In a metatextual sense, it’s probably also relevant that her first reaction when she realized Dorothy was trying to send a boob pic to someone OTHER than Walky was, “Thank god.”
(I wonder if she, you know, didn’t like the vibes she was getting from them as a couple, and this was her very “I refuse to admit I care about my stupid little brother” way of showing it.)
This stip is actually communicating something pretty interesting. Jennifer thinks they are actually pretty cute when they are kissing, but the moment they actually turn to face her she drops that and goes back to complaining.
I mean, that’s how I read it — “kay, kinda cute…why are they staring at me, oh no, they actually think they’re UNIQUELY cute and should be acknowledged.”
it’s an appropriate amount of reading into it, i’d say? jennifer’s face has a very quick transition from “aw that’s cute” and “oh my god they’re expecting a reaction”
Walky knows Moke is on Witness Protection. They probably told him when agents came to get Mike’s stuff instead of his parents. Amd also explain why Walky wasn’t getting an automatic A for all his classes that semester.
Someday Joe will stop being the fifth or sixth most important person in this break up/cheating fiasco. But it won’t be in 2025 and I’m starting to doubt if it’ll happen in 2026.
Wondering if it being a “cheating fiasco” was even the right move considering how disinterested the story seems to be in that aspect. It’s the only choice these two made with full agency as characters that directly hurt people they supposedly care about, yet it’s also the only thing completely irrelevant to the current goings-on.
I’m in the camp that thinks it was ultimately a mistake to lump in the lukewarm cheating, probably, but we’re in it for the long haul now, so c’est la vie. Hope it gets interesting, eventually.
I think it’s more than them being cute, they’re almost expectant.
As I said elsewhere but I’ll be more hater-ly about it here, it sure LOOKS like Jennifer’s overall vibe is “okay, cute… why are you acting like this is the most special relationship in ever and that everyone else should recognize and call it out, you’re just two more girls who figured out how to kiss while leaving a trail of emotional damage in your wake, not the second coming of Lesbian Jesus. Stop staring at me and expecting me to say something.”
I wonder. Originally I thought that Willis meant for us to read them as cute, but now I’m wondering if they are aware of how annoying they are to a lot of us. Billie seems to be channeling that.
She’s hardly the only one to respond negatively. Sarah, Lucy, Asma, Raidah (if anyone cares)… even Walky called her out not for what she did but how she did it.
The only in-universe character to respond positively was Agatha, and she responds positively to almost everything (I think Mary was the only exception).
Oops… meant to say Agatha was the only one other than Dorothy and Joyce. Although even Dorothy pointed out it wasn’t entirely a good thing they were doing.
You could see that Billie is genuinely happy for them… Ish, anyway.
But then they started staring at her expectantly for some kind of reaction which yeah, annoying. And then Joyce made it worse by pointing out the obvious.
As much as I don’t care for Becky being the way she is about Dorothy and Joyce, I’m very not fond of going from Dorothy looking sad about Becky’s situation right on back to this.
Not that I’m giving either of them flak, mind. I just really haven’t been caring for this set of arcs.
I was really hoping Joyce would have some meaningful realizations about how shitty she’s been behaving towards other characters lately, but now that Dorothy’s back with her again I’m gonna assume that’s not likely to happen anytime soon.
Dorothy seems to have recovered from being bummed out by Becky pretty quick
Joyce almost got a comment from Jennifer about being too much, but got cut off
Dorothy comments on how she’s glad Walky isnt there.
Its kind of like Willis is going “and here is where interesting dynamics/drama COULD be but instead what if its just switch back to fluff for another month or two”
So, Becky opened up to Dorothy and Dorothy got all uwu sad and then just…left?
The same thing happened with Amber. The comic focused on how Amber being miserable and in pain made *Dorothy* feel, and then that plot point was just dropped.
Yeah, what the heck is happening with pacing and consistency? Was the bit with Becky added later due to readers not reacting to the cute fluff like Willis expected? The tonal whiplash is real.
did you enjoy your break from needing to make these before Willis decided that he needed to stall the plot another few days to give us more of the lovebirds constantly gushing about how happy and in love they are and that all the miserable people around them don’t matter due to the power of their love?
UghhhhhHHHHHHH
get these two off my screen or I’m separating them with a crowbar. Anyone remember if they have any other classes on a Monday? Not together?
I like the way you think, but I don’t remember Charlie Brown turning down the little red haired girl who’d always had a crush on him and then making out with Linus
Little Red Haired girl never had a crush on him., he had on her. As far as I know, she didn’t even know he existed. You might be thinking of Sally having a crush on Schroeder.
My biggest disagreement is Sal–I’m pretty sure SHE is the red-headed girl, as she was the other one Joyce was gushing over for so much of the strip.
In which case, we need to assign Becky a new role, so… Oh, wait, she can be Lucy, instead. Becky certainly enjoyed poking fun at Joyce to get her to generate funny faces as much as Lucy liked pulling away the football.
Of course, that means that Billie needs a new role. Damn. Oh, wait, I know… Frieda Rich! Vain, in kind of a deliberate way, buries her better nature behind the superficialities. I think that fits.
The comments section needs more people like you. People who genuinely enjoy what’s going on without feeling the need to intrude in on other people expressing their dissatisfaction peacefully.
Heh, I try. I think there are enough folks on both sides taking the occasional pot shot that guards have been going back up, though I continue to appreciate Dot’s efforts at making a centralized location for, as she puts it, kvetching.
Doesn’t mean I won’t participate in arguments, obviously, but I’d like to think stuff like “is Joyce really being inappropriate with this specific group of friends by chattering about her new sex life” is something we can discuss… neutrally, for lack of a better word. 🙂
One step at a time. First Joyce and Dorothy get together, then Jennifer makes out with them, then Danny gets a contract with a record company, then Mary is revealed to be a robot, then Other Rachel challenges Rachel to a walnut and postage stamp competition for the position of primary Rachel, then the Granblue Fantasy collab, then Ethan eats a turkey sandwich, and then Amazi-Girl joins the polycule.
Hmm, she did say Joyce “pulls straight hotties” but I don’t think she ever called Joyce hot. So… maybe Jennifer thinks Joyce isn’t hot enough for Dorothy? Possibly inspired by thinking “Joyce isn’t hot enough for me”, because obviously her best college friend should be hot enough to hook up with, because best friends hook up sometimes, it’s not like it’s a whole thing, stop making it a whole thing.
(side note I kind of agree with J-bill’s unintentional point that not everything needs to be labeled)
I do, too. I also like the bigger, dorkier grin in the last panel. I like to think it’s a little bit feeling-awkward because Joyce expressly asked Jennifer if she’d been watching the kiss, and a little bit feeling-shy-and-pleased because Joyce is so clearly proud of being her girlfriend, and we now know she’s spent some amount of time being sure that would never happen.
So Becky opened up about her feeling empty because she’s lost the comfort of her mum looking down on her and Dorothy just… left? Or any further conversation wasn’t shown in favour of this?
Nobody has a conversation about anything important for more than a minute before just randomly leaving or saying something faux-profound as they turn and walk off. Then we cut back to strips like this.
48 hour curse joking aside it’s frustrating because I keep hoping something will happen. That, as has been said by many, that Willis is cooking. But nope it’s another skipped conversation, another non-reaction, another calm rationalisation and nothing has actually happened. The story’s in exactly the same place it was and has been for what feels like forever.
I’m too lazy to check if it’s always been this way but I felt this most keenly during Joe and Rachel’s conversation where at the end I was like “This was a bunch of ‘mic drop’ nonsense pretending to be a conversation.”
This is even funnier somehow because Dorothy was teary eyed from Becky talking about her dead mom to this.
It’s almost like what we saw of that conversation was setup for something Dorothy is going to do later. Like talk to Joyce about it Becky’s feelings, or Dina about what’s actually going on with their relationship/breakup.
Dorothy doesn’t believe in God so she can’t give Becky any comfort there. She never believed in God so she can’t even speak to the feelings that Becky might be having. It is an outside context problem.
“it’s being set up to-”
“this is clearly leading somewhere”
“they’re going to talk about-”
“this is building to-”
It’s always later, later, later until it looks like something might happen – but then it’s two strips that get called setup for something to happen later.
Or it’s completely skipped, like Jocelyn and Hank’s talk, and then we’re back to the story equivalent of styrofoam.
We actually have seen one narrative consequence for cheating. It just happened pretty quick so I don’t blame you for not noticing. Joyce wants to talk about sex and she can’t with the friends that would actually been interested in that. Joe specifically was mentioned. She can’t talk with him because she cheated on him and broke up with him!
There’s your consequence for cheating folks!🥳 Was it everything you wanted?!
Now maybe that’s not exactly a cathartic or morally satisfying consequence in comparison to Joyce and Dorothy’s actions but it’s what we got. Also Walky kind of snapped at Joyce a little bit so maybe that counts too? I don’t really count that since it’s misplaced but it was something kind of.
I genuinely think those two things are just the start of stuff.
I don’t blame anyone for not wanting to wait any longer, but Joyce’s whole friend-group was kind of cold-shouldering her for like five strips, and everyone but Jennifer seems to have left without saying goodbye to her.
My exact thoughts, Li. Until recently the friend group had a routine of meeting up before/after classes, getting lunch together and exchanging pleasantries. We’re not seeing that as much now and aside from the initial “congrats for coming out and finding your True Love”, there has been a level of noticeable avoidance towards DoJo from the friend group. I’m looking forward to how the rest of their week/classes go.
Again: full sympathy for folks who are long past impatience with this. It’s a slowburn, for sure, and I’m sure that’s made much worse if you actively dislike Joyce and Dorothy’s new dynamic.
I’m also not trying to convince anyone that the incoming Consequnces are going to have been worth the wait to them — that’s highly subjective, and tbqh I’ll be very surprised if “Aw yeah! That was TOTALLY worth the last seven months!” winds up being a popular opinion. Seven months of mostly not enjoying a daily web comic is just. Hard to make up for.
(Clarification: I can easily imagine folks being glad they stuck it out as other storylines come back into prominence: I just can’t imagine the narrative consequences for Joyce and Dorothy ever being worth that kind of wait.)
…but also, I think “clearly Joyce will never experience any consequences for cheating” is — well, just a very different reading of the last five Joyce strips.
Ditto to the idea that we’re just never gonna circle back around to Joe, or that it won’t in any way matter that Joyce let Dorothy think she and Joe had fully and completely and unambiguously broken up, when she’d actually promised to finish that specific conversation later.
Again: FULL sympathy for folks where it’s just been too long a wait, made worse by entirely too many strips of Joyce and Dorothy’s NRE.
I would just draw a gentle line in the sand at “and nothing interesting is ever gonna happen again,” heh.
Yeah I just wanna put it out there that actually still have full confidence that we’re gonna get there eventually. I just. Really like the potential man meme and it was right there. Like, 50/50 jokes and genuine annoyance
I also know you were replying to sirk not me I just have. The autistic need to never be misinterpreted
I getcha. I also feel a pretty intense need to be understood, it often keeps me replying to a thread long past the point where I was enjoying a conversation or had any hope of reaching some kind of consensus. “I don’t need or even want you to agree with me at this point, I just want you to understand what I was trying to say…!”
How long can “The start of stuff” truly last, though? It’s been “the start of stuff” for months? Can we finally, at long last, GET to “stuff?”
I know you acknowledge that folks are valid for getting impatient, but my goodness I just don’t feel like this excuse works any more. I can only get edged so long before I wanna cum!
I laid it out in pretty excruciating detail to Elf grrl above, heh, but while I would never ever ever argue with anyone who just said, “This is taking too long,” I am genuinely a little incredulous about comments to the effect of: “well, obviously nothing interesting is EVER going to happen here.”
Which I thought Sirksome’s comment edged into.
Also, reading the comment section over the last couple of days especially, I have started getting the distinct impression that some folks are so convinced that Willis just isn’t gonna ever do anything with all the various narrative balls currently in the air that they genuinely missed the actual vibe of Joyce with the friend-group.
Or maybe it’s just a case of “some readers are feeling so hostile to Joyce right now that when they see other characters be slightly less hostile to Joyce, it looks like neutrality”. No one explicitly told Joyce to shut up and stop being annoying, so there definitely wasn’t a strong subtext of all her ‘friends’ wanting her to shut up and stop being annoying.
And in the spirit of “please don’t misunderstand me”:
For me, “making excuses for the writing being bad” (‘bad’ here as a stand in for any more specific criticism) is something that can only be done by a person who agrees with you, even if only deep down in their heart of hearts, that the writing is bad and needs excuses.
I genuinely do not agree. I have genuinely not experienced this storyline as having pacing problems. I’ve enjoyed what I have experienced as a slowburn. For me, as an audience member, the only thing I would actually have Willis change is the protest backdrop for Joyce and Dorothy’s kiss and some of the more awkward attempts to address it (though for my part I’m glad we’re getting more Asma as a result).
I fully respect that this has not been your experience, to put it extremely mildly, and I can sympathize with being tired of being told to be patient.
But I am decidedly not telling you to be patient. I am only arguing with Sirksome’s sarcastic assertion of “but there WERE consequences! You probably blinked and missed them. I hope Joyce being sad for one panel that she can’t talk to Joe anymore is good enough!”
I am thoroughly enjoying Dorothy and Joyce including the little cracks in Dorothy’s psyche, but I’m also watching with interest (and enjoying on a completely different level) waiting to see how many days in a row people will make exactly the same points about how much they aren’t enjoying this very same comic that they somehow are invested enough in and fascinated enough by to keep returning every day.
Clif, friend, this is not the thread for that response. You’re as entitled to complain about stuff as anyone else (emphasis on “as”), but I was trying to have an actual conversation about something I thought was genuinely interesting about expectations affecting perception.
I am not interested in telling anyone to stop reading DoA just because they’re getting something different out of coming here every day than I am.
@Clif: Hey, look, I finally got tired enough of this response that I did the math — if you add up all the comics that Willis has ever done, the number of them I’ve been unhappy with enough to comment on publicly is something like 1.5%.
By comparison, I am also a huge fan of Star Trek TNG, and the amount of THAT I dislike is closer to 30% (for example: 80% of the second and third seasons of Picard).
Show me a series with a cumulative ~37 (!) years of works (depending on how you count; I’m double-counting the years that Shortpacked ran concurrently with DoA/Joyce&Walky) that is 100% good with no problems, and I’ll frankly call you a liar to your face.
@Big Z: I really liked Picard but I have learned to accompany saying that with: “No, I’m not saying it’s GOOD, I’m saying it makes me happy to watch. Like a warm cup of tea.”
I was entirely too busy being happy to see Riker and Troi together, to see Seven at all (and esp to see her actually date a woman), to see what FELT LIKE honestly the kindest way Trek could possibly acknowledge Q’s messed up fixation on Picard, etc. Also I really liked the way the third season ended: to me it was infinitely better than the original ending of TNG, but then again I am not someone who likes epilogues.
Don’t fast-forward however many decades to tell me who got married and had kids, that’s what I would rather decide for myself as a fan? Just set them all down at a table, playing poker again together, so that I can imagine there are still many adventures in their futures.
It’s been 2 months since we saw Joe for 2 strips. And that was after waiting for 2 months for some kind of follow up to Joyce leaving him hanging. Not only have we not seen him at all in those two months, there hasn’t been any storyline that hasn’t focused on Joyce and Dorothy.
I don’t care if its Billy actually getting to tell Joyce to shut up, Sarah locking them out of the room, Jacob telling Joyce that she hasn’t changed or a hard cut to Malaya for a derby storyline where Amazi-Girl’s absence is extremely obvious, I just want things to start happening again. I want to go back to the large cast so I don’t care about a few strips focused on the characters I don’t like, I want A/B plots so this sort of cut doesn’t feel like Dorothy left becky hanging so she could be here for Joyce’s class getting out.
@Li: I did overall have a warm “hey, this feels like home” vibe from Picard, lemme be clear, even if Season Two could have been four episodes, and even if Season Three seems to have forgotten Season Two happened. (my favorite meme boils down to Juarati in Post-Season-2 appearance: “Hey, guys, my ringer was off, why do I have 381,123,842,532 missed calls?”) And yes, the ending kind of did make it all feel good again for all the missed beats along the way.
@shepsquared: Okay. I’ll just reiterate: I’m not asking anyone to be patient here, it’s completely fine if it’s taken too long to get to the consequences for your tastes. It’s also valid to want more of other storylines.
My only objection was to the idea that consequences are never gonna happen, or that Willis obviously doesn’t intend to ever go back to Joe. I think those specific beliefs are wrong.
I’m not saying Willis doesn’t intend to go back to Joe, but he feels like the fifth or sixth most important person when it comes to Joyce cheating on and dumping him, and I don’t have much hope we’re going to see anything much from him for another few storylines.
True, but still fair to be concerned that Becky might have been left hanging when Dorothy seems in such good spirits.
I’m betting she’s not actually in great spirits, so much as genuinely happy to see Joyce, and that we’ll get to her being worried about Becky in another strip or two, but I sympathize with folks who are frustrated with this turn of events for any number of reasons.
Though to be honest, even if she’d dumped him first, or without cheating on him went to break up with and got caught off guard by his poly suggestion, it’d still be too awkward to talk to him about how she’s a sex haver now.
Not strictly cheating consequences.
Yeah I’m not really counting either of those, if for no other reason than there’s nothing about them that would be different if the cheating didn’t happen.
I think that’s what’s getting missed in discussions about “consequences” here; those of us looking for fallout from the cheating want it to be *cheating specific*. As in, fallout that only exists because the cheating happened and wouldn’t exist otherwise. As of right now, there hasn’t been a single instance of that occurring since these two got together (and no, Sarah being mad doesn’t count, because she’s not actually upset at Joyce for cheating, she’s upset that it happened to JOE, a guy she is begrudgingly coming around to liking. If she didn’t like Joe, she wouldn’t give a shit). As thejeff said above me, Joyce still wouldn’t want to have this conversation with Joe even if she had “done the right thing” and broke up with him first because of how awkward it would be.
I agree that Dorothy being here right after that last scene with Becky clearly in despair feels a little abrupt. The implication she just walked out on Becky while she was in tears feels like uncharacteristically cold of Dorothy, but I’m willing to believe that was just a small pacing error. It can be hard to find the proper moment to end a scene organically. I can believe that there were bits of conversation we just didn’t see because they were less important and that Dorothy isn’t some sociopath. But it does read like an awkward transition.
It’s so hypocritical of me to suggest this given my established thoughts on the pacing of this storyline but I think maybe a reaction strip of Dorothy leaving her room looking busted up, before composing herself and walking off with renewed determination to clean up her messes, might have been a good idea.
Good idea. Then we could have had arguments between the “that was an awfully quick recovery proving how terrible Dorothy is as a person” and the “I can’t stand how nothing interesting is happening” camps.
Yeah, I think there’s a fair bit here where people are being TOO uncharitable to Dorothy — that conversation with Becky was going to, 100%, peter out awkwardly rather than have anything further definitive happen, and the idea that it marks Dorothy as somehow more awful that she bailed on an awkward conversation that wasn’t going anywhere or helping anyone is kinda absurd.
Dot’s suggestion has some merit, but honestly not as a whole strip, maybe a panel or two and then running into somebody in the hall for a tension-breaking joke? But even then, that’s just gonna provoke the folks who are annoyed at the pacing.
Just out of curiosity, what did you expect the rest of that conversation to look like? Because all i can imagine happening is Dorothy spends a strip or two failing to offer Becky any meaningful comfort because she can’t relate to losing faith or losing a parent. It’s not exactly engaging content and it takes away from the revelation that Becky is re grieving the loss of her mother.
Dorothy could have explained how Becky’s only hope for not losing Dina is to ask Amber for help. With multiple strips, she could have even brought in how Amber was able to help her seduce Joyce with professional level breast shots. And finished off with “What have you got to lose.”
50% frustration that we cut away from a scene they were enjoying for more of a type of scene they’re deeply sick of
and 50% that Dorothy has lost the presumption of goodwill from a certain segment of the readers, so they’re (understandably) not really up for assuming that Dorothy, for example, hugged Becky after that beat, and when we cut to Dorothy being visibly happy to see Joyce, it’s easy to feel like what Willis is showing us is that Dorothy really genuinely does not care about Becky or Dina (or indeed anyone but Joyce)
I doubt that is the authorial intent of the situation, but I can completely understand both believing it AND not believing it, but being frustrated that Willis didn’t try harder to counter it.
I don’t disagree at all with your assessment, but i still genuinely wonder what that conversation would look like to people who wanted to see it. I feel much the same about the people who complain that we skipped the dad pizza conversation. What were they looking for there? In what way would several srips of Hank and Jocelyn arguing about US foreign policy towards a fictional country have improved the pacing? I’m sincerely curious because i clearly do not see this comic the same way they do and any insight could only be helpful.
Am I making sense or am i just sounding contrarian? I know i tend to do the latter when I’m not meaning to.
It might not have improved on the pacing but it would have been a place to retroactively make the protest strips better. Cover the actual conflict in Bulmeria, who is genociding who and everything that was ignored so it could be safely generic and meaningless.
Instead we got Dorothy going out of her way to apologise to Asma while Joyce refused to recognise that she might have done something wrong, which was not a great way to address it. (And while Joyce was right about an apology to Asma was missing the point and only for them, she didn’t exactly improve on what Dorothy did anyway)
I don’t think there’s a specific set answer, is the thing, and I also think that complaints about the pacing are separate (even when coming from the same folks) from complaints about spending too much time specifically with Joyce and Dorothy versus other characters.
Like, Dorothy showing up in this strip confirms that we were, at least for now, “done” with the Becky scene, and wouldn’t be cutting back to it again in the near future, which is disappointing for all the folks feeling that fist 50%.
I think a lot of folks would rather the Becky-and-Dorothy scene continue just for the sake of less Dorothy/Joyce on screen together, and that’s a valid way to feel.
Gotthammer in specific was actually pretty clear on that point, I thought, with the end of that first paragraph in the OP comment, but there’s also a couple of examples of things they(?) would have liked to have seen.
My issue isn’t with Joyce and Dorothy being on page per se, but rather that when they are they herald the worst of this arc. Conceptually I have no issue with this plot line- Joyce and Dorothy get put in a high-stress situation and realise they have feelings for each other. Sure, it’s dramatic, a shake up, and has plenty of room for all sorts of ways to send things.
My issue is that the plot we’ve gotten has been weak, the pacing (even without the inserts) terrible, and the writing has frankly been just plain bad.
For example the conversation between Jocelyn and Hank was not necessary, no, but we got how many strip’s talking about Joyce’s birth control which went nowhere. And then Joyce interrupted Jocelyn coming out, so that sub plot was halted. And then Hank was fine with it and left. So aside from Hank now having the knowledge Joyce was dating Dorothy, that entire stretch of comics did nothing to move the plot along.
Similarly I have mentioned previously that criticisms of Jocye (and to a lesser extent Dorothy) are met with replies about them being dumb teenagers – sure! But the problem is that these dumb teenage moments are met with calm rationalisations, polite indifference, or the sort of mild annoyance one gives a co-worker.
Where is Walky’s moment of being a dumb teenager and yelling at Dorothy and Joyce for being cheaters? Instead he calls Joyce a sore winner and the comic just moves on with nobody caring. Becky is distraught, but not enough to hold any resentment to Dorothy. Instead of bringing up Dorothy saying she had no interest in Joyce, she calmly absolves her of guilt in a fantastic display of self analysis. Great to see if you’re her therapist, but dull as dishwater for a piece of fiction.
That’s not even going into the real world issues with the use of Gaza and Muslim representation, and the post-hoc handling thereof. Asma is going out with them tonight, and because of comedic misunderstandings Sal will be there instead. Which means Sal won’t get mad at Dorothy for Walky, defanging any tension there. They go to apologise to Asma, only Joyce refuses to and that refusal is never addressed again.
Raidah goes to confront Daisy, but instead of getting into it for too long she has to go pray – illustrating her muslimness and apparent lack of time management because she only allocated two minutes to dealing with Daisy.
And the thing all these missed opportunities have is that when they are fumbled it is either to focus on Joyce and Dorothy instead, or cuts immediately over to them. And those strips make it incredibly unclear if their behaviour, particularly Joyce’s, is meant to be cute or annoying, or if it is both in a tee-hee way or a Willis is cooking way.
Over this arc people have compared DoA to a soap opera – to which i say soapies have dramatic reveals, heightened emotions, and huge reactions. So far id argue we’ve gotten the first part. Like aside from mild annoyance there has been zero negative reactions. Above it was talked about them getting a noticable cold shoulder… or was the writing just so focussed on Joyce and Dorothy it has, once again, crowded out every other conversation? A soap would have had characters immediately taking sides – Jennifer with Walky, Jacob and Lucy against Joyce – that would make Sal’s indifference to her brother stand out more and open an avenue for those character’s relationships to develop further.
But people have also said to not take the jokes too seriously. It’s a gag a day strip etc. But as someone else originally said, when a quarter of the entire plot is The Joke, you can’t just say ignore the joke please for the other 75% which is The Plot. The Joke and The Plot are intrinsically linked, so ignoring one in favour to the other breaks the whole. Joyce laughing at Walky may have been The Joke of that strip, but it is also an event in The Plot. And the ongoing narrative now has that act of cruelty baked in, so readers expect such a dramatic act on Joyce’s part to have an equally dramatic response. But the response has been anything but.
Which circles right back around to my original point of how long everything is taking to build to something. Which, imo, won’t be ‘today’ in the comic, because anything too consequential would disrupt bowling with Asma and because of the nature of that event it is a narrative certainty to occur.
OR something will happen but they’ll still go with Asma, and with how these inserted strips have been some of Willis’ worst writing I have little faith it’ll be anything other than a narrative mess.
Again, this arc as a concept is not bad. The execution, however, has been terrible both in-universe and from a meta sense. The reaction to Joyce and Dorothy strips is because they are the primary symptoms of all the bad choices, rather than the cause.
Oh it’s no problem, I just wanted to clarify how, for me at least, the pacing / plotting / writing issue interacts with / causes the Dorothy + Joyce on page issue, you know? 🙂
As someone who’s enjoying them right now, I’m genuinely not feeling pacing problems right now, but it makes a lot of sense to me that not enjoying the Joyce/Dorothy of it all would make the amount of screen time they’re getting feel a lot longer, and, well, pacing is enormously subjective! But also not something I’m usually sensitive to.
(I’m usually in the camp of “if I watch a YouTube video that talks extensively about a specific movie and discusses its pacing, then I’ll realize I know what they’re talking about — but when I was actually watching the movie, I didn’t really notice”, as a viewer — and even more so as a reader, because as a reader the pace is much more something I have control over.)
Goodness knows I am entirely familiar with the problem of disliking the main couple of a book/movie/TV show, though, and it always seems to exacerbate everything, at least for me.
Plus — idk, I also felt a bit compelled to run defense, I guess. I don’t think folks should have to have detailed lists of what Willis should be doing differently right now in order to justify being disappointed by something. And, like I said, I thought your OP was very clear about why you were disappointed by Dorothy’s appearance here, as well as what you’d hoped to get out of continuing her scene with Becky.
And even if you hadn’t been…… “literally anything that isn’t more of this” is still a totally okay and coherent thing to want, heh.
Just like “literally anything that’s actually related to cheating” is a totally okay and coherent thing to want.
I think it’s a recurring event in this strip that conversations tend to cut off at the climax in a way that can be a bit frustrating. Probably it’s at least partly for the same reason that no one ever ends phone calls with “goodbye” on television; it just slows things down and doesn’t add anything, and as has been discussed, this comic already moves at a very slow pace.
I think we know the characters well enough at this point to imagine what happened though. Becky values her mask so highly and is embarrassed about it slipping, says something like, “Sorry to dump all that on ya, Dotty. Why don’t you go meet Joyce and I’ll see ya later.” Dorothy, who wants to help and comfort Becky, but has absolutely no idea how to do that and fears making things worse, mumbles something apologetic in reply and leaves.
Yes Dorothy, thank goodness Walky has “already bolted” thus saving you from being uncomfortable with the way you’ve treated him the past week or so. Or really, your entire relationship with him.
It’s wild to me because if you just look at the text of these past few days of strips, there’s absolutely a ton of evidence (mostly in Jennifer’s facial expressions) that Joyce is supposed to come across as annoying.
But in the context of posts like this, either it’s a bit or DoJo is *not* supposed to be even the slightest bit annoying. And the more Willis does posts like this, the harder it becomes to believe it’s a bit.
That is even more worrying. I used to really enjoy this comic. It won’t be the first time an author ”blows up their work”, like Willis themself put it.
I don’t see any reason for it to not be both. My mom’s new puppy is absolutely cute, but it shits itself constantly and I’m sick to death of every conversation being about this damned dog. So cute and annoying don’t need to be mutually exclusive.
The easy counterargument to that is that Willis is also a master troll, and I don’t especially think Willis is out to express anything more than some frustration with the section of the commenters who are not buying what’s being served at present.
As someone who doesn’t like some of the things Willis has done with their comic, I will say that they’re outnumbered: there’s only one author and a lot of critics. I’ll accept the occasional snarky skeet as a fair response to hundreds of critical comments, and continue to make critical comments. That’s the haters’ way.
And i think that’s a perfectly fair response. They’ll speak their mind, you’ll speak yours and I’ll speak mine and hopefully we’ll all endeavor to keep it on this side of hateful.
Take it on the chin tbh. You’re allowed to find the sugary sweetness obnoxious and they’re allowed to like the stuff they’re putting in their webcomic.
I’m gonna be super real and say: I don’t think they’d notice either way. That post isn’t aimed at anyone specifically, but you’re one reader in thousands and I doubt Willis is hard-pressed to keep the “gets angry at everything they write in-comic and outside of it” crowd.
Not a personal attack here, I doubt Willis would give a shit if I stopped reading either. At the end of the day, if it’s not something they agree is a problem or something they’re willing to solve even if they don’t agree, then it’s a problem they’ve come to terms with losing readers over.
It’s a weird fucking level of parasocial to decide an author of a popular webcomic is doing anything to push you specifically in any direction. Or that they hate you. Or that they think of you at all when they’re dealing with the hundreds and hundreds of comments, messages, and tags they get every single day.
Like, if you don’t like the comic anymore and all you’re here to do is get mad at another human being who isn’t even aware of you… that’s not an issue with what Willis posts on their Bluesky, it’s a thing you’re doing to yourself.
‘Actively dislikes me personally’ and ‘Actively dislikes me because I’m one of the mean meanies who meanly criticised them for turning their webcomic into them smashing two dolls’ faces together while screaming about how bravely sexy and sexily brave this is’ both comprise ‘Actively dislikes me’
Yes. And both are weirdly parasocial to worry about.
Who cares what the author thinks of you or people who share your cranky opinions (notably not relevant if said author is funding or bringing awareness to anti-minority groups)?
Obviously, I do, because I feel that they’re mocking, insulting, etc people who have issues with the current focus, direction, pacing, etc of the comic and use this section to express that.
I didn’t make this personal; I didn’t bring up how long I’ve been reading, didn’t argue and don’t feel I’m entitled to anything on that basis or any other. Rather, I take posts like the one linked as an indication that Willis does not want to have any further dealings with a certain segment of his readership (and again, I will not speculate as to how large or small that segment is) … and I’m increasingly inclined to take them up on that.
tl;dr – “You don’t want us around anymore? … okay.”
Like, kind of beside your point, but genuinely if they wanted any specific commenter to go away, it’s not like they don’t have a very easy way of accomplishing that.
Well. To that I will just say that I think it’s a very gentle jab…?
Some readers are having a decidedly Darth Vader “NOOOOOOOO” style reaction whenever these two are on-screen together, and that’s really all Willis is pointing out in this particular skeet.
And me, well, I didn’t think the NOOOOOO’s were fully earnest? I thought the frustration with returning to the Joyce/Dorothy Zone, so to speak, was sincere, but that folks were being deliberately hyperbolic about their frustration.
I would be surprised if Willis thought they were making fun of deeply held beliefs rather than hyperbolic exaggeration, but…
I don’t know. I’ve gone back and forth on it today. I agree with Nymph and I agree with Dot, but also I don’t think one has to take it on the chin — I think how you feel about it and whether you put up with how it’s making you feel is up to you. No shame in not “toughing it out”, so to speak.
I know for me, Star Trek: Discovery was a show I didn’t completely enjoy on its own merits, but I had a friend that I watched it with every week. We did sort-of live watches together over an instant messaging service, basically, and we made predictions and talked to each other about which parts we liked and which parts we didn’t… and even as th latter started to outweigh the former, I still really liked the specific experience of watching it with her and complaining together.
I stopped watching Discovery because I… well, I lost that friend to the pandemic.
But I still remember that feeling of looking forward to each episode mostly not for its own sake, but for the social aspect of nitpicking it with her.
So: I definitely know that there can be fun in the kvetch, so to speak. And if you’re enjoying it, I wouldn’t let anyone else make you feel like that’s somehow not a legitimate way of engaging with art — very much including the creator, heh.
But the critical part is your feelings! 🙂 Especially with the state of the world, honestly. You should take care of you and yours. There aren’t enough hours in the day to worry about what strangers think of you over something as silly as not enjoying a webcomic storyline — even if that stranger happens to be its author.
I wanna be real for a sec and clarify I don’t actually think Willis has any personal feelings one way or another. hence couching my phrasing with vague, qualifying terms like ‘feels like’ and ‘a vibe’
It’s hard to tell because of the way the website is, but I was responding to St. Clair, not you. Hence not actually interacting with the specific language you used.
i wish we could get more time on becky and her conversation with dorothy but i guess it might be an issue where i am reading the strip day to day instead of like waiting a month and catching up, this is going to inevitably feel kinda awful waiting for something to happen i think
it didnt occur to me that dorothy might have just abandoned becky because she shows up in another strip? i dont really understand that, i guess it is a pacing issues but i really dont analyze it that minutely ???
It makes me worried that the previous few strips were inserted later, and the coo-cooing over Dorothy and Joyce was just straight up months on end originally. Now we get Asma inserts as… something.
I doubt it, if only because the strip of Becky peering out the door at Ruth with her new haircut was already part of a preview on Willis’ tumblr way before the storyline dropped, and that strip flows smoothly into the scene with Dorothy. Compare that to the Asma and even some of the Raidah ones which do feel a bit… stapled together sometimes, and it pretty clear. To me at least.
I think people have latched onto this “inserted comics” thing way too hard. The only comics they’ve mentioned inserting were the Asma ones and those were specifically to deal with an inclusivity issue that was pointed out to them and that they agreed with, not to try and cuddle up to the comments section.
Given Willis’ general attitude about people complaining about J&D I highly doubt they are in any way motivated to insert strips to deal with those complaints. They’ve pointed out again and again that they don’t care about, don’t agree with, and aren’t suffering as a result of those complaints. Why make extra work over an issue they don’t agree is an issue?
This is unrelated to the current strip but something just struck me – if Book 14 is “Hell isn’t real,” that sure does set up Becky’s corollary that “Heaven isn’t real” with all that implies as well.
It’s Willis’ comic, their story, their choice. Their sense of humour is their’s too. Personally, I mostly enjoy it and when I don’t, I am probably simply not equipped with the right social background.
If I didn’t enjoy it, I wouldn’t be here. That’s because reading the comic (and any links I follow up in the comments) is also my choice. Seems pretty simple to me!
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the smilers! the adorable smilers!!!
Seeing the mix of annoyance and jealousy in Jennifer’s face is somewhat cathartic after her whole arx of treating her friends like dirt. Oh; and Asher too, I guess .
Joyce isn’t wrong.
From the alt-text… if Dorothy is “the Belle”, does that make Joyce “the Beast”? … **new nickname unlocked** xD
Joyce’s is nearly breaking into an all-teeth grin. Dorothy’s is very cute and I don’t know we’ve seen that exact one on her .
I believe that last panel is showing her I-wish-I-was-invisible smile.
It looks to me more like she was trying to dampen it in panel 3, then underwent critical dampening failure and catastrophic smile rebound.
I was referring to the cuteness in panel three. However, I do like your take on this and am stealing “critical dampening failure”. Here’s your upvote.
It is pretty cool!
Joyce & Dorothy are absolutely adorable in all three of last panels, even got a bit of a smile from Jennifer in panel 2.
That’s not a smile from Jen.
I’m seeing it as a smile and you can’t stop me.
If you cover the left side (our left) of Jennifer’s face, the right side is smiling. If you cover the right, the left side is sad and lonely.
A Dreamworks Smile is still a smile, Kevin.
Yes, I agree, I love how into each other those two dorks are.
Jen’s smile there in Panel 2 is definitely reading to me as “aw, dorks in love… they’re still standing there. Why are they just staring at me? Oh, hell, they want me to pretend this is groundbreaking and interesting for everyone and not just them.”
DAT ALT TEXT
As is well known, puns are the highest form of humor.
Jennifer’s smile is decreasing at a rate which will result in a scowl the likes of which is only known to be worn by Ruth is she doesn’t get away from them within five minutes
Or Sarah 85% of the time.
It is pretty cool
*exasperated sighhhhh*
Back to the empty fluffs of nothing strips, I guess.
I like that Jennifer is also annoyed by them
I don’t think I’ve ever been this aligned with Jennifer before
I can honestly say that I’ve never been exactly this aligned.
At least, judging by other characters responses to Joyce, its now abundantly clear its meant to be read as annoying
To paraphrase one Yahtzee Croshaw…
“I’m pretty sure this character is designed to be deliberately annoying, in which case, the author should be congratulated for doing his job so well, and tactfully reminded that deliberately annoying is still annoying.”
Joyce has always been meant to be read as annoying. esp to Billie
I’m pretty sure Willis writes multiple characters and allows those characters to have authentic reactions to things, rather than using characters to instruct the audience on how to feel…?
Like, your annoyance is a completely valid emotional response! I’m glad Jennifer has been providing folks with some catharsis. I personally continue to hope that she’s reacting this way because she cares about Walky.
In a metatextual sense, it’s probably also relevant that her first reaction when she realized Dorothy was trying to send a boob pic to someone OTHER than Walky was, “Thank god.”
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2024/comic/book-15/02-the-one-where-jocelyne-returns/pathetic/
(I wonder if she, you know, didn’t like the vibes she was getting from them as a couple, and this was her very “I refuse to admit I care about my stupid little brother” way of showing it.)
This stip is actually communicating something pretty interesting. Jennifer thinks they are actually pretty cute when they are kissing, but the moment they actually turn to face her she drops that and goes back to complaining.
I think you’re reading a lot into an ambivalent facial expression tbh.
Eh, I think that reads as endeared. The gag doesn’t really work if it isn’t
There’s a gag other then the one I’m currently having?
that’s just a problem of experience
wait, what were we talking about?
The gag is they’re annoying.
I mean, that’s how I read it — “kay, kinda cute…why are they staring at me, oh no, they actually think they’re UNIQUELY cute and should be acknowledged.”
it’s an appropriate amount of reading into it, i’d say? jennifer’s face has a very quick transition from “aw that’s cute” and “oh my god they’re expecting a reaction”
“I want what they have- oh god they’re still Joyce and Dorothy”
Bingo.
No, she doesn’t
https://bsky.app/profile/damnyouwillis.bsky.social/post/3macfaclebk2a
Hey you were Right!
Yup.
oooooooh NOOOOOOOOOOOO
they’re back together agaiiiin aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa @-@
How can anyone be mad at those two nerds?
Easy, watch this
😡
Ooo very nice anger, I’m glad I stuck around to watch.
uwu
OOW, gauntlet thrown.
ok Walky stans, How do you even exist ?
Sure Joes watching this crying in his milk , …
Because I see a lot of myself in Walky?
A possibly bisexual, undiagnosed ADHD kid who is struggling through his first year of college and who had a roommate who died/killed himself?
I would love it if Walky stopped being everyone’s punching bag.
Walky knows Moke is on Witness Protection. They probably told him when agents came to get Mike’s stuff instead of his parents. Amd also explain why Walky wasn’t getting an automatic A for all his classes that semester.
I knew there had to be a logical explanation. Well done.
Someday Joe will stop being the fifth or sixth most important person in this break up/cheating fiasco. But it won’t be in 2025 and I’m starting to doubt if it’ll happen in 2026.
Wondering if it being a “cheating fiasco” was even the right move considering how disinterested the story seems to be in that aspect. It’s the only choice these two made with full agency as characters that directly hurt people they supposedly care about, yet it’s also the only thing completely irrelevant to the current goings-on.
I’m in the camp that thinks it was ultimately a mistake to lump in the lukewarm cheating, probably, but we’re in it for the long haul now, so c’est la vie. Hope it gets interesting, eventually.
Easily.
Super easy, barely an inconvenience
Well, in my case, I wanted twizzlers and got these instead.
Thank you for being the only person to explain how.
I demonstrated and everything!
I’m so glad I caught up last night cuz I would’ve gone mad having to wait 15 years for these two dorks to get together.
It was a long near decade and a half of waiting for me, for sure.
It was a little over four years for me (I jumped on sometime around the time skip) so… honestly I kinda think I got the best of both worlds?
”jumped on”. When people say this, does it mean they haven’t read the whole comic?
Fairly certain it’s just about the time we started reading it.
I binged this bad girl in like a week.
Ok, that makes more sense.
HATER CONTAINMENT THREAD EMERGENCY ALERT, THE PROBLEM CHILDREN HAVE REUNITED
KVETCH HERE ⬇️
Billie getting progressively more annoyed as they jus keep being nothing but cute and fluffy is such a mood
We love a problematic queen?
It’s like buying a box of your favorite kids cereal and realizing its just soggy sugar lumps and a creepy looking mascot.
Last time I disliked a character this much, it was Mike.
Should I worry about these two?
I think it’s more than them being cute, they’re almost expectant.
As I said elsewhere but I’ll be more hater-ly about it here, it sure LOOKS like Jennifer’s overall vibe is “okay, cute… why are you acting like this is the most special relationship in ever and that everyone else should recognize and call it out, you’re just two more girls who figured out how to kiss while leaving a trail of emotional damage in your wake, not the second coming of Lesbian Jesus. Stop staring at me and expecting me to say something.”
I’m just imagining Willis as a drill sergeant like the one from Full Metal Jacket, yelling “YOU WILL FIND THESE TWO CUTE.”
Fucking hell, it’s like if a bowl of prison gruel was sprinkled with Wonka nerds.
“SHOW ME YOUR AWW FACE!”
I wonder. Originally I thought that Willis meant for us to read them as cute, but now I’m wondering if they are aware of how annoying they are to a lot of us. Billie seems to be channeling that.
She’s hardly the only one to respond negatively. Sarah, Lucy, Asma, Raidah (if anyone cares)… even Walky called her out not for what she did but how she did it.
The only in-universe character to respond positively was Agatha, and she responds positively to almost everything (I think Mary was the only exception).
Oops… meant to say Agatha was the only one other than Dorothy and Joyce. Although even Dorothy pointed out it wasn’t entirely a good thing they were doing.
Willis has had a year of backlog, so any kind of response from us is moot.
You could see that Billie is genuinely happy for them… Ish, anyway.
But then they started staring at her expectantly for some kind of reaction which yeah, annoying. And then Joyce made it worse by pointing out the obvious.
Wouldn’t be Billifer a moment if she didn’t switch it up on a dime lol
As much as I don’t care for Becky being the way she is about Dorothy and Joyce, I’m very not fond of going from Dorothy looking sad about Becky’s situation right on back to this.
Not that I’m giving either of them flak, mind. I just really haven’t been caring for this set of arcs.
I was really hoping Joyce would have some meaningful realizations about how shitty she’s been behaving towards other characters lately, but now that Dorothy’s back with her again I’m gonna assume that’s not likely to happen anytime soon.
Considering Jennifer got cut off, you probably shouldn’t get your hopes up for another month or two.
Damn, I think you’re right. Dotty is here, so Joyce doesn’t have to think about anything other than horny pink fluff.
And, I mean, we could still focus anywhere else while that’s happening. We could focus on Joe, or Carla, or Sarah…
But True Love is more important than anything else so we gotta sit through more of the OTP “being cute”.
Dorothy seems to have recovered from being bummed out by Becky pretty quick
Joyce almost got a comment from Jennifer about being too much, but got cut off
Dorothy comments on how she’s glad Walky isnt there.
Its kind of like Willis is going “and here is where interesting dynamics/drama COULD be but instead what if its just switch back to fluff for another month or two”
He can’t keep getting away with this
So, Theocracy (yes, that’s the official ship name) is at the annoying-everyone-around-them-with-obnoxious-cuteness stage.
… this stage lasts, what, a week at most? More like 4 days? Maybe as little as 3? Someone help me bargain this down a bit further.
so on our side, we might – might – see some motion on this as soon as… March?
maybe.
So, Becky opened up to Dorothy and Dorothy got all uwu sad and then just…left?
The same thing happened with Amber. The comic focused on how Amber being miserable and in pain made *Dorothy* feel, and then that plot point was just dropped.
Yeah, what the heck is happening with pacing and consistency? Was the bit with Becky added later due to readers not reacting to the cute fluff like Willis expected? The tonal whiplash is real.
Nooooo they’re back together already?? I was really hoping (and for some stupid reason, expecting) them to be away from each other for longer.
did you enjoy your break from needing to make these before Willis decided that he needed to stall the plot another few days to give us more of the lovebirds constantly gushing about how happy and in love they are and that all the miserable people around them don’t matter due to the power of their love?
I suspect your use of the word “days” is overly optimistic
Perhaps it’s days in comic time. Therefore we got about 6 months
UghhhhhHHHHHHH
get these two off my screen or I’m separating them with a crowbar. Anyone remember if they have any other classes on a Monday? Not together?
But
PDA will continue until morale improves
If Joyce is Charlie Brown, Dottie is Linus. Billie is Lucy. Becky is the little red haired girl. Sal is Peppermint Patty.
Fuckface is Snoopy
Blowjob Cat is the Kite-Eating Tree
I endorse these both.
I like the way you think, but I don’t remember Charlie Brown turning down the little red haired girl who’d always had a crush on him and then making out with Linus
And who is Joe, then? Um… Pigpen maybe?
Danny is Schroeder? Because ukelele. Billie almost slept with him that one time, so that almost fits?
If Sal is Peppermint Patty then Marcie is Marcie, of course. But if Joyce is Charlie Brown, then Jocelyne is his sister Sally?
Also, who is Walky?
Uhhhhh. I don’t know, Woodstock?
I think he’s Pig Pen.
I’m not quite sure where Joe fits in. This cast is a bit bigger, as far as regulars go.
Joe is Shermy.
One of the original Peanuts line up – friend of Charlie Brown… who got less and less used as time went on…
(Seems almost prophetic, given the suggestions above! 🙂 )
Little Red Haired girl never had a crush on him., he had on her. As far as I know, she didn’t even know he existed. You might be thinking of Sally having a crush on Schroeder.
My biggest disagreement is Sal–I’m pretty sure SHE is the red-headed girl, as she was the other one Joyce was gushing over for so much of the strip.
In which case, we need to assign Becky a new role, so… Oh, wait, she can be Lucy, instead. Becky certainly enjoyed poking fun at Joyce to get her to generate funny faces as much as Lucy liked pulling away the football.
Of course, that means that Billie needs a new role. Damn. Oh, wait, I know… Frieda Rich! Vain, in kind of a deliberate way, buries her better nature behind the superficialities. I think that fits.
“Still pretty cool!”
-Dumbing of Age
I’m about to abstract, I stg.
nooooooo but we wuv you Taffy TT~TT
You should cubism instead
Genuinely enjoying both sides of this strip. Jennifer’s adorable grumpy pout AND Dorothy and Joyce’s happy doofus smiles.
The comments section needs more people like you. People who genuinely enjoy what’s going on without feeling the need to intrude in on other people expressing their dissatisfaction peacefully.
Heh, I try. I think there are enough folks on both sides taking the occasional pot shot that guards have been going back up, though I continue to appreciate Dot’s efforts at making a centralized location for, as she puts it, kvetching.
Doesn’t mean I won’t participate in arguments, obviously, but I’d like to think stuff like “is Joyce really being inappropriate with this specific group of friends by chattering about her new sex life” is something we can discuss… neutrally, for lack of a better word. 🙂
those two girls as a pair make me understand why malaya couldn’t stand lucy
But Malaya can’t stand anything
she can stand fuckface and marcie
Malaya used to stand Joyce (because they respected her sincerity), but I don’t think they’ve seen her lately.
Because she thinks hating everything makes her cool?
Live Jennifer Reaction
Those two are adorable.
Hot take: Billie’s expression is because she’s realizing she wants Dorothy to be kissing her instead.
Not the first time there’s been sexual tension between these three.
finally, the polycule everyone’s been hoping for
If it hasn’t got AmaziGirl, is it really the one we were hoping for?
she can join in too!
One step at a time. First Joyce and Dorothy get together, then Jennifer makes out with them, then Danny gets a contract with a record company, then Mary is revealed to be a robot, then Other Rachel challenges Rachel to a walnut and postage stamp competition for the position of primary Rachel, then the Granblue Fantasy collab, then Ethan eats a turkey sandwich, and then Amazi-Girl joins the polycule.
Woo! Go Other Rachel!
Hmm, she did say Joyce “pulls straight hotties” but I don’t think she ever called Joyce hot. So… maybe Jennifer thinks Joyce isn’t hot enough for Dorothy? Possibly inspired by thinking “Joyce isn’t hot enough for me”, because obviously her best college friend should be hot enough to hook up with, because best friends hook up sometimes, it’s not like it’s a whole thing, stop making it a whole thing.
(side note I kind of agree with J-bill’s unintentional point that not everything needs to be labeled)
I like Dorothy’s little ‘u’ smile.
I do, too. I also like the bigger, dorkier grin in the last panel. I like to think it’s a little bit feeling-awkward because Joyce expressly asked Jennifer if she’d been watching the kiss, and a little bit feeling-shy-and-pleased because Joyce is so clearly proud of being her girlfriend, and we now know she’s spent some amount of time being sure that would never happen.
both of dorothy’s smiles in this strip are the greatest thing to grace god’s green earth
This is true.
So Becky opened up about her feeling empty because she’s lost the comfort of her mum looking down on her and Dorothy just… left? Or any further conversation wasn’t shown in favour of this?
Nobody has a conversation about anything important for more than a minute before just randomly leaving or saying something faux-profound as they turn and walk off. Then we cut back to strips like this.
48 hour curse joking aside it’s frustrating because I keep hoping something will happen. That, as has been said by many, that Willis is cooking. But nope it’s another skipped conversation, another non-reaction, another calm rationalisation and nothing has actually happened. The story’s in exactly the same place it was and has been for what feels like forever.
One must imagine Sisyphus happy.
I’m too lazy to check if it’s always been this way but I felt this most keenly during Joe and Rachel’s conversation where at the end I was like “This was a bunch of ‘mic drop’ nonsense pretending to be a conversation.”
This is even funnier somehow because Dorothy was teary eyed from Becky talking about her dead mom to this.
Dorothy has a lot on her mind.
She’s not…
*turns and starts to walk away*
…the only one.
Maybe ask…
*turns and starts to walk away*
…why that is.
Perhaps having a full conversation…
*turns and starts to walk away*
…will help.
Maybe there’s a reason…
*turns and starts to walk away*
…she’s got nobody to talk to.
If only the plot…
*turns and starts to walk away*
…did something with that.
But instead we get…
*turns and starts to walk away*
…more of this.
It’s almost like what we saw of that conversation was setup for something Dorothy is going to do later. Like talk to Joyce about it Becky’s feelings, or Dina about what’s actually going on with their relationship/breakup.
Dorothy doesn’t believe in God so she can’t give Becky any comfort there. She never believed in God so she can’t even speak to the feelings that Becky might be having. It is an outside context problem.
Are you familiar with the potential man meme?
“it’s being set up to-”
“this is clearly leading somewhere”
“they’re going to talk about-”
“this is building to-”
It’s always later, later, later until it looks like something might happen – but then it’s two strips that get called setup for something to happen later.
Or it’s completely skipped, like Jocelyn and Hank’s talk, and then we’re back to the story equivalent of styrofoam.
Give me liberty
Give me fire
Give me 4 more months of fluffslop or I retire
0 satisfying narrative consequences for cheating
0 resolved serious conversations
7 strips of DoJo cuddling and getting punished for being gay
Normally id keep this to the kvetching thread but the opportunity was right there. I couldn’t not. This is mostly a joke
We actually have seen one narrative consequence for cheating. It just happened pretty quick so I don’t blame you for not noticing. Joyce wants to talk about sex and she can’t with the friends that would actually been interested in that. Joe specifically was mentioned. She can’t talk with him because she cheated on him and broke up with him!
There’s your consequence for cheating folks!🥳 Was it everything you wanted?!
Now maybe that’s not exactly a cathartic or morally satisfying consequence in comparison to Joyce and Dorothy’s actions but it’s what we got. Also Walky kind of snapped at Joyce a little bit so maybe that counts too? I don’t really count that since it’s misplaced but it was something kind of.
I genuinely think those two things are just the start of stuff.
I don’t blame anyone for not wanting to wait any longer, but Joyce’s whole friend-group was kind of cold-shouldering her for like five strips, and everyone but Jennifer seems to have left without saying goodbye to her.
My exact thoughts, Li. Until recently the friend group had a routine of meeting up before/after classes, getting lunch together and exchanging pleasantries. We’re not seeing that as much now and aside from the initial “congrats for coming out and finding your True Love”, there has been a level of noticeable avoidance towards DoJo from the friend group. I’m looking forward to how the rest of their week/classes go.
Yep.
Again: full sympathy for folks who are long past impatience with this. It’s a slowburn, for sure, and I’m sure that’s made much worse if you actively dislike Joyce and Dorothy’s new dynamic.
I’m also not trying to convince anyone that the incoming Consequnces are going to have been worth the wait to them — that’s highly subjective, and tbqh I’ll be very surprised if “Aw yeah! That was TOTALLY worth the last seven months!” winds up being a popular opinion. Seven months of mostly not enjoying a daily web comic is just. Hard to make up for.
(Clarification: I can easily imagine folks being glad they stuck it out as other storylines come back into prominence: I just can’t imagine the narrative consequences for Joyce and Dorothy ever being worth that kind of wait.)
…but also, I think “clearly Joyce will never experience any consequences for cheating” is — well, just a very different reading of the last five Joyce strips.
Ditto to the idea that we’re just never gonna circle back around to Joe, or that it won’t in any way matter that Joyce let Dorothy think she and Joe had fully and completely and unambiguously broken up, when she’d actually promised to finish that specific conversation later.
Again: FULL sympathy for folks where it’s just been too long a wait, made worse by entirely too many strips of Joyce and Dorothy’s NRE.
I would just draw a gentle line in the sand at “and nothing interesting is ever gonna happen again,” heh.
Yeah I just wanna put it out there that actually still have full confidence that we’re gonna get there eventually. I just. Really like the potential man meme and it was right there. Like, 50/50 jokes and genuine annoyance
I also know you were replying to sirk not me I just have. The autistic need to never be misinterpreted
I getcha. I also feel a pretty intense need to be understood, it often keeps me replying to a thread long past the point where I was enjoying a conversation or had any hope of reaching some kind of consensus. “I don’t need or even want you to agree with me at this point, I just want you to understand what I was trying to say…!”
Unfamiliar with the meme, though. I’ll google.
How long can “The start of stuff” truly last, though? It’s been “the start of stuff” for months? Can we finally, at long last, GET to “stuff?”
I know you acknowledge that folks are valid for getting impatient, but my goodness I just don’t feel like this excuse works any more. I can only get edged so long before I wanna cum!
It’s… not an excuse?
I laid it out in pretty excruciating detail to Elf grrl above, heh, but while I would never ever ever argue with anyone who just said, “This is taking too long,” I am genuinely a little incredulous about comments to the effect of: “well, obviously nothing interesting is EVER going to happen here.”
Which I thought Sirksome’s comment edged into.
Also, reading the comment section over the last couple of days especially, I have started getting the distinct impression that some folks are so convinced that Willis just isn’t gonna ever do anything with all the various narrative balls currently in the air that they genuinely missed the actual vibe of Joyce with the friend-group.
Or maybe it’s just a case of “some readers are feeling so hostile to Joyce right now that when they see other characters be slightly less hostile to Joyce, it looks like neutrality”. No one explicitly told Joyce to shut up and stop being annoying, so there definitely wasn’t a strong subtext of all her ‘friends’ wanting her to shut up and stop being annoying.
And in the spirit of “please don’t misunderstand me”:
For me, “making excuses for the writing being bad” (‘bad’ here as a stand in for any more specific criticism) is something that can only be done by a person who agrees with you, even if only deep down in their heart of hearts, that the writing is bad and needs excuses.
I genuinely do not agree. I have genuinely not experienced this storyline as having pacing problems. I’ve enjoyed what I have experienced as a slowburn. For me, as an audience member, the only thing I would actually have Willis change is the protest backdrop for Joyce and Dorothy’s kiss and some of the more awkward attempts to address it (though for my part I’m glad we’re getting more Asma as a result).
I fully respect that this has not been your experience, to put it extremely mildly, and I can sympathize with being tired of being told to be patient.
But I am decidedly not telling you to be patient. I am only arguing with Sirksome’s sarcastic assertion of “but there WERE consequences! You probably blinked and missed them. I hope Joyce being sad for one panel that she can’t talk to Joe anymore is good enough!”
I am thoroughly enjoying Dorothy and Joyce including the little cracks in Dorothy’s psyche, but I’m also watching with interest (and enjoying on a completely different level) waiting to see how many days in a row people will make exactly the same points about how much they aren’t enjoying this very same comic that they somehow are invested enough in and fascinated enough by to keep returning every day.
Clif, friend, this is not the thread for that response. You’re as entitled to complain about stuff as anyone else (emphasis on “as”), but I was trying to have an actual conversation about something I thought was genuinely interesting about expectations affecting perception.
I am not interested in telling anyone to stop reading DoA just because they’re getting something different out of coming here every day than I am.
Nor am I interested in convincing them not to return. But it is fascinating.
But sorry, I thought the conversation was complete.
@Clif: Hey, look, I finally got tired enough of this response that I did the math — if you add up all the comics that Willis has ever done, the number of them I’ve been unhappy with enough to comment on publicly is something like 1.5%.
By comparison, I am also a huge fan of Star Trek TNG, and the amount of THAT I dislike is closer to 30% (for example: 80% of the second and third seasons of Picard).
Show me a series with a cumulative ~37 (!) years of works (depending on how you count; I’m double-counting the years that Shortpacked ran concurrently with DoA/Joyce&Walky) that is 100% good with no problems, and I’ll frankly call you a liar to your face.
@Big Z: I really liked Picard but I have learned to accompany saying that with: “No, I’m not saying it’s GOOD, I’m saying it makes me happy to watch. Like a warm cup of tea.”
I was entirely too busy being happy to see Riker and Troi together, to see Seven at all (and esp to see her actually date a woman), to see what FELT LIKE honestly the kindest way Trek could possibly acknowledge Q’s messed up fixation on Picard, etc. Also I really liked the way the third season ended: to me it was infinitely better than the original ending of TNG, but then again I am not someone who likes epilogues.
Don’t fast-forward however many decades to tell me who got married and had kids, that’s what I would rather decide for myself as a fan? Just set them all down at a table, playing poker again together, so that I can imagine there are still many adventures in their futures.
It’s been 2 months since we saw Joe for 2 strips. And that was after waiting for 2 months for some kind of follow up to Joyce leaving him hanging. Not only have we not seen him at all in those two months, there hasn’t been any storyline that hasn’t focused on Joyce and Dorothy.
I don’t care if its Billy actually getting to tell Joyce to shut up, Sarah locking them out of the room, Jacob telling Joyce that she hasn’t changed or a hard cut to Malaya for a derby storyline where Amazi-Girl’s absence is extremely obvious, I just want things to start happening again. I want to go back to the large cast so I don’t care about a few strips focused on the characters I don’t like, I want A/B plots so this sort of cut doesn’t feel like Dorothy left becky hanging so she could be here for Joyce’s class getting out.
@Li: I did overall have a warm “hey, this feels like home” vibe from Picard, lemme be clear, even if Season Two could have been four episodes, and even if Season Three seems to have forgotten Season Two happened. (my favorite meme boils down to Juarati in Post-Season-2 appearance: “Hey, guys, my ringer was off, why do I have 381,123,842,532 missed calls?”) And yes, the ending kind of did make it all feel good again for all the missed beats along the way.
@Big Z: ❤️
@shepsquared: unsure why this is in reply to this part of the thread, but hey, valid feelings.
It’s a response to the top of the thread and what you said to Dot but I couldn’t think of anyway to make that clear when you’re half of it
@shepsquared: Okay. I’ll just reiterate: I’m not asking anyone to be patient here, it’s completely fine if it’s taken too long to get to the consequences for your tastes. It’s also valid to want more of other storylines.
My only objection was to the idea that consequences are never gonna happen, or that Willis obviously doesn’t intend to ever go back to Joe. I think those specific beliefs are wrong.
That’s all.
I’m not saying Willis doesn’t intend to go back to Joe, but he feels like the fifth or sixth most important person when it comes to Joyce cheating on and dumping him, and I don’t have much hope we’re going to see anything much from him for another few storylines.
Which is still a fair way to feel? It’s just not what I was arguing against. You know?
I mean we can assume they did it off screen. We don’t see it every single time the characters say hello or goodby to each other in these group walks.
True, but still fair to be concerned that Becky might have been left hanging when Dorothy seems in such good spirits.
I’m betting she’s not actually in great spirits, so much as genuinely happy to see Joyce, and that we’ll get to her being worried about Becky in another strip or two, but I sympathize with folks who are frustrated with this turn of events for any number of reasons.
Though to be honest, even if she’d dumped him first, or without cheating on him went to break up with and got caught off guard by his poly suggestion, it’d still be too awkward to talk to him about how she’s a sex haver now.
Not strictly cheating consequences.
Yeah I’m not really counting either of those, if for no other reason than there’s nothing about them that would be different if the cheating didn’t happen.
I think that’s what’s getting missed in discussions about “consequences” here; those of us looking for fallout from the cheating want it to be *cheating specific*. As in, fallout that only exists because the cheating happened and wouldn’t exist otherwise. As of right now, there hasn’t been a single instance of that occurring since these two got together (and no, Sarah being mad doesn’t count, because she’s not actually upset at Joyce for cheating, she’s upset that it happened to JOE, a guy she is begrudgingly coming around to liking. If she didn’t like Joe, she wouldn’t give a shit). As thejeff said above me, Joyce still wouldn’t want to have this conversation with Joe even if she had “done the right thing” and broke up with him first because of how awkward it would be.
Damn this comment slaps, made me come out of retirement on commenting on this terrible arc to tell you good job.
Cook this potential arc. Fraud allegations are not being beaten.
Ah, you’re saying that Willis is taking the Stephen Moffat approach to writing.
I agree that Dorothy being here right after that last scene with Becky clearly in despair feels a little abrupt. The implication she just walked out on Becky while she was in tears feels like uncharacteristically cold of Dorothy, but I’m willing to believe that was just a small pacing error. It can be hard to find the proper moment to end a scene organically. I can believe that there were bits of conversation we just didn’t see because they were less important and that Dorothy isn’t some sociopath. But it does read like an awkward transition.
It’s so hypocritical of me to suggest this given my established thoughts on the pacing of this storyline but I think maybe a reaction strip of Dorothy leaving her room looking busted up, before composing herself and walking off with renewed determination to clean up her messes, might have been a good idea.
Good idea. Then we could have had arguments between the “that was an awfully quick recovery proving how terrible Dorothy is as a person” and the “I can’t stand how nothing interesting is happening” camps.
I mean I’d have been fine with it but by all means continue shadowboxing imaginary people
Yeah, I think there’s a fair bit here where people are being TOO uncharitable to Dorothy — that conversation with Becky was going to, 100%, peter out awkwardly rather than have anything further definitive happen, and the idea that it marks Dorothy as somehow more awful that she bailed on an awkward conversation that wasn’t going anywhere or helping anyone is kinda absurd.
Dot’s suggestion has some merit, but honestly not as a whole strip, maybe a panel or two and then running into somebody in the hall for a tension-breaking joke? But even then, that’s just gonna provoke the folks who are annoyed at the pacing.
Just out of curiosity, what did you expect the rest of that conversation to look like? Because all i can imagine happening is Dorothy spends a strip or two failing to offer Becky any meaningful comfort because she can’t relate to losing faith or losing a parent. It’s not exactly engaging content and it takes away from the revelation that Becky is re grieving the loss of her mother.
Dorothy could have explained how Becky’s only hope for not losing Dina is to ask Amber for help. With multiple strips, she could have even brought in how Amber was able to help her seduce Joyce with professional level breast shots. And finished off with “What have you got to lose.”
I mean, I genuinely think the issue here is like…
50% frustration that we cut away from a scene they were enjoying for more of a type of scene they’re deeply sick of
and 50% that Dorothy has lost the presumption of goodwill from a certain segment of the readers, so they’re (understandably) not really up for assuming that Dorothy, for example, hugged Becky after that beat, and when we cut to Dorothy being visibly happy to see Joyce, it’s easy to feel like what Willis is showing us is that Dorothy really genuinely does not care about Becky or Dina (or indeed anyone but Joyce)
I doubt that is the authorial intent of the situation, but I can completely understand both believing it AND not believing it, but being frustrated that Willis didn’t try harder to counter it.
I don’t disagree at all with your assessment, but i still genuinely wonder what that conversation would look like to people who wanted to see it. I feel much the same about the people who complain that we skipped the dad pizza conversation. What were they looking for there? In what way would several srips of Hank and Jocelyn arguing about US foreign policy towards a fictional country have improved the pacing? I’m sincerely curious because i clearly do not see this comic the same way they do and any insight could only be helpful.
Am I making sense or am i just sounding contrarian? I know i tend to do the latter when I’m not meaning to.
It might not have improved on the pacing but it would have been a place to retroactively make the protest strips better. Cover the actual conflict in Bulmeria, who is genociding who and everything that was ignored so it could be safely generic and meaningless.
Instead we got Dorothy going out of her way to apologise to Asma while Joyce refused to recognise that she might have done something wrong, which was not a great way to address it. (And while Joyce was right about an apology to Asma was missing the point and only for them, she didn’t exactly improve on what Dorothy did anyway)
I don’t think there’s a specific set answer, is the thing, and I also think that complaints about the pacing are separate (even when coming from the same folks) from complaints about spending too much time specifically with Joyce and Dorothy versus other characters.
Like, Dorothy showing up in this strip confirms that we were, at least for now, “done” with the Becky scene, and wouldn’t be cutting back to it again in the near future, which is disappointing for all the folks feeling that fist 50%.
I think a lot of folks would rather the Becky-and-Dorothy scene continue just for the sake of less Dorothy/Joyce on screen together, and that’s a valid way to feel.
Gotthammer in specific was actually pretty clear on that point, I thought, with the end of that first paragraph in the OP comment, but there’s also a couple of examples of things they(?) would have liked to have seen.
(She)
My issue isn’t with Joyce and Dorothy being on page per se, but rather that when they are they herald the worst of this arc. Conceptually I have no issue with this plot line- Joyce and Dorothy get put in a high-stress situation and realise they have feelings for each other. Sure, it’s dramatic, a shake up, and has plenty of room for all sorts of ways to send things.
My issue is that the plot we’ve gotten has been weak, the pacing (even without the inserts) terrible, and the writing has frankly been just plain bad.
For example the conversation between Jocelyn and Hank was not necessary, no, but we got how many strip’s talking about Joyce’s birth control which went nowhere. And then Joyce interrupted Jocelyn coming out, so that sub plot was halted. And then Hank was fine with it and left. So aside from Hank now having the knowledge Joyce was dating Dorothy, that entire stretch of comics did nothing to move the plot along.
Similarly I have mentioned previously that criticisms of Jocye (and to a lesser extent Dorothy) are met with replies about them being dumb teenagers – sure! But the problem is that these dumb teenage moments are met with calm rationalisations, polite indifference, or the sort of mild annoyance one gives a co-worker.
Where is Walky’s moment of being a dumb teenager and yelling at Dorothy and Joyce for being cheaters? Instead he calls Joyce a sore winner and the comic just moves on with nobody caring. Becky is distraught, but not enough to hold any resentment to Dorothy. Instead of bringing up Dorothy saying she had no interest in Joyce, she calmly absolves her of guilt in a fantastic display of self analysis. Great to see if you’re her therapist, but dull as dishwater for a piece of fiction.
That’s not even going into the real world issues with the use of Gaza and Muslim representation, and the post-hoc handling thereof. Asma is going out with them tonight, and because of comedic misunderstandings Sal will be there instead. Which means Sal won’t get mad at Dorothy for Walky, defanging any tension there. They go to apologise to Asma, only Joyce refuses to and that refusal is never addressed again.
Raidah goes to confront Daisy, but instead of getting into it for too long she has to go pray – illustrating her muslimness and apparent lack of time management because she only allocated two minutes to dealing with Daisy.
And the thing all these missed opportunities have is that when they are fumbled it is either to focus on Joyce and Dorothy instead, or cuts immediately over to them. And those strips make it incredibly unclear if their behaviour, particularly Joyce’s, is meant to be cute or annoying, or if it is both in a tee-hee way or a Willis is cooking way.
Over this arc people have compared DoA to a soap opera – to which i say soapies have dramatic reveals, heightened emotions, and huge reactions. So far id argue we’ve gotten the first part. Like aside from mild annoyance there has been zero negative reactions. Above it was talked about them getting a noticable cold shoulder… or was the writing just so focussed on Joyce and Dorothy it has, once again, crowded out every other conversation? A soap would have had characters immediately taking sides – Jennifer with Walky, Jacob and Lucy against Joyce – that would make Sal’s indifference to her brother stand out more and open an avenue for those character’s relationships to develop further.
But people have also said to not take the jokes too seriously. It’s a gag a day strip etc. But as someone else originally said, when a quarter of the entire plot is The Joke, you can’t just say ignore the joke please for the other 75% which is The Plot. The Joke and The Plot are intrinsically linked, so ignoring one in favour to the other breaks the whole. Joyce laughing at Walky may have been The Joke of that strip, but it is also an event in The Plot. And the ongoing narrative now has that act of cruelty baked in, so readers expect such a dramatic act on Joyce’s part to have an equally dramatic response. But the response has been anything but.
Which circles right back around to my original point of how long everything is taking to build to something. Which, imo, won’t be ‘today’ in the comic, because anything too consequential would disrupt bowling with Asma and because of the nature of that event it is a narrative certainty to occur.
OR something will happen but they’ll still go with Asma, and with how these inserted strips have been some of Willis’ worst writing I have little faith it’ll be anything other than a narrative mess.
Again, this arc as a concept is not bad. The execution, however, has been terrible both in-universe and from a meta sense. The reaction to Joyce and Dorothy strips is because they are the primary symptoms of all the bad choices, rather than the cause.
This is a very thorough defense of a position I don’t personally think needs defending.
I apologize if I kinda took over your thread? I replied a lot to it.
Oh it’s no problem, I just wanted to clarify how, for me at least, the pacing / plotting / writing issue interacts with / causes the Dorothy + Joyce on page issue, you know? 🙂
I’m glad. And that’s fair!
As someone who’s enjoying them right now, I’m genuinely not feeling pacing problems right now, but it makes a lot of sense to me that not enjoying the Joyce/Dorothy of it all would make the amount of screen time they’re getting feel a lot longer, and, well, pacing is enormously subjective! But also not something I’m usually sensitive to.
(I’m usually in the camp of “if I watch a YouTube video that talks extensively about a specific movie and discusses its pacing, then I’ll realize I know what they’re talking about — but when I was actually watching the movie, I didn’t really notice”, as a viewer — and even more so as a reader, because as a reader the pace is much more something I have control over.)
Goodness knows I am entirely familiar with the problem of disliking the main couple of a book/movie/TV show, though, and it always seems to exacerbate everything, at least for me.
Plus — idk, I also felt a bit compelled to run defense, I guess. I don’t think folks should have to have detailed lists of what Willis should be doing differently right now in order to justify being disappointed by something. And, like I said, I thought your OP was very clear about why you were disappointed by Dorothy’s appearance here, as well as what you’d hoped to get out of continuing her scene with Becky.
And even if you hadn’t been…… “literally anything that isn’t more of this” is still a totally okay and coherent thing to want, heh.
Just like “literally anything that’s actually related to cheating” is a totally okay and coherent thing to want.
I will definitely try to remember your pronouns! Memory issues, but I’ll make an effort, and I appreciate you sharing them with me.
Just wanna say this is an excellent post and I’m giving you your flowers for it.
I think it’s a recurring event in this strip that conversations tend to cut off at the climax in a way that can be a bit frustrating. Probably it’s at least partly for the same reason that no one ever ends phone calls with “goodbye” on television; it just slows things down and doesn’t add anything, and as has been discussed, this comic already moves at a very slow pace.
I think we know the characters well enough at this point to imagine what happened though. Becky values her mask so highly and is embarrassed about it slipping, says something like, “Sorry to dump all that on ya, Dotty. Why don’t you go meet Joyce and I’ll see ya later.” Dorothy, who wants to help and comfort Becky, but has absolutely no idea how to do that and fears making things worse, mumbles something apologetic in reply and leaves.
*vibrating intesifies*
Panel 3 is my favorite
Awwwwwww. They are just so sweet!!!
Honeymoon still going. (dun dun dun!!!?)
Even Jennifer on second panel caught some cute.
Jennifer on rest panels is a comment section mood. 😛
She thought they were cute for a split second and then they started talking 😭
^ This! The rapid expression change! LOL
Actually, her expression changed as soon as she good be seen — Billie’s problems are internal, lol
So Billie represents some of us readers then. I feel seen.
>:(
c:
C:
Sirenengesang
Waving as it flies by over my head.
Billie is currently partnerless so you better watch yourself cause patience for bullshit was never her strong suit XD
Can we please have someone just tell Joyce “We get it. You two are fucking. Quit being annoying about it.”
I think in response they should diaul up the annoyance even more.
Well yes, but we don’t say some parts out loud.
it literally started happening in this exact strip, but Dorothy showed up
PLEASE JUSY MAKE BECKY OKAY ;_;
Awww, schmoopy moopy woopy schmoopy
Yes Dorothy, thank goodness Walky has “already bolted” thus saving you from being uncomfortable with the way you’ve treated him the past week or so. Or really, your entire relationship with him.
I want Billie to punch them now.
If she aims really well, she can probably get both of them with one hit.
Something like this?
Yeah, that definitely wouldn’t be a gross overreaction, especially considering that Joyce is the reason she’s friends with Alice again.
Looks like Jennifer is feeling “grated” again. She had the same look around Lucy and Jacob. She so needs to say yes to being happy with ****.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-5/01-when-somebody-loved-me/terrible-2/
panel 3 looks like jennifer is the friendpilled visitmaxxer and i love it
Jesus… please don’t spread effing incel-slang. Gross.
They’re not. theyre referring to this meme making fun of incelspeak and Internet brainrot
Its called friendpilled visitmaxxer. Specifically they’re saying Jennifer is the one staring at the other guy like he’s a freak for what he just said
Source Material Andy
Straight up sourcing it. Never beating the citing allegations.
I’m looking so tired at my phone screen outside in the cole at night right now thinking “yup.. thats the love of my life..”
(◠‿・)—☆
https://bsky.app/profile/damnyouwillis.bsky.social/post/3mabgpvqmec2u
I love Willis so much.
Someone’s been reading John and Abilgail Adams revolutionary war correspondence is my first take. But thank you for this link! It was hilarious.
In other news, with the bonus strip, Willis is really pushing my resolve not to spend unnecessary money.
https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:q7l3wsxhl5ooaysuvdc4bczc/post/3mabu7l4hxk2c
Reads more like Civil War era correspondence to me. But brilliantly hilarious, for sure!
namadás continuing to share links to Willis’s vent skeets like live grnades chucked into this comment section
nodding sagely
I live only to serve (Willis’s posts that i find funny).
posts like this make me think Willis wants me to fuck off and stop reading/caring about their comic.
Yup, me as well.
This is the opposite of ”slay your darlings”, as he seems self indulgently smitten with his OTP.
Yeah its a certain kinda vibe when it starts feeling like an author actively dislikes you
It’s wild to me because if you just look at the text of these past few days of strips, there’s absolutely a ton of evidence (mostly in Jennifer’s facial expressions) that Joyce is supposed to come across as annoying.
But in the context of posts like this, either it’s a bit or DoJo is *not* supposed to be even the slightest bit annoying. And the more Willis does posts like this, the harder it becomes to believe it’s a bit.
https://bsky.app/profile/damnyouwillis.bsky.social/post/3macfaclebk2a
That is even more worrying. I used to really enjoy this comic. It won’t be the first time an author ”blows up their work”, like Willis themself put it.
🤷
I don’t see any reason for it to not be both. My mom’s new puppy is absolutely cute, but it shits itself constantly and I’m sick to death of every conversation being about this damned dog. So cute and annoying don’t need to be mutually exclusive.
The easy counterargument to that is that Willis is also a master troll, and I don’t especially think Willis is out to express anything more than some frustration with the section of the commenters who are not buying what’s being served at present.
Well, I think there’s only so much negativity they can be expected to endure without giving any back.
As someone who doesn’t like some of the things Willis has done with their comic, I will say that they’re outnumbered: there’s only one author and a lot of critics. I’ll accept the occasional snarky skeet as a fair response to hundreds of critical comments, and continue to make critical comments. That’s the haters’ way.
And i think that’s a perfectly fair response. They’ll speak their mind, you’ll speak yours and I’ll speak mine and hopefully we’ll all endeavor to keep it on this side of hateful.
It definitely confirms what I was thinking 4 polls ago.
Take it on the chin tbh. You’re allowed to find the sugary sweetness obnoxious and they’re allowed to like the stuff they’re putting in their webcomic.
I’m gonna be super real and say: I don’t think they’d notice either way. That post isn’t aimed at anyone specifically, but you’re one reader in thousands and I doubt Willis is hard-pressed to keep the “gets angry at everything they write in-comic and outside of it” crowd.
Not a personal attack here, I doubt Willis would give a shit if I stopped reading either. At the end of the day, if it’s not something they agree is a problem or something they’re willing to solve even if they don’t agree, then it’s a problem they’ve come to terms with losing readers over.
Actually adding in:
It’s a weird fucking level of parasocial to decide an author of a popular webcomic is doing anything to push you specifically in any direction. Or that they hate you. Or that they think of you at all when they’re dealing with the hundreds and hundreds of comments, messages, and tags they get every single day.
Like, if you don’t like the comic anymore and all you’re here to do is get mad at another human being who isn’t even aware of you… that’s not an issue with what Willis posts on their Bluesky, it’s a thing you’re doing to yourself.
‘Actively dislikes me personally’ and ‘Actively dislikes me because I’m one of the mean meanies who meanly criticised them for turning their webcomic into them smashing two dolls’ faces together while screaming about how bravely sexy and sexily brave this is’ both comprise ‘Actively dislikes me’
Yes. And both are weirdly parasocial to worry about.
Who cares what the author thinks of you or people who share your cranky opinions (notably not relevant if said author is funding or bringing awareness to anti-minority groups)?
Obviously, I do, because I feel that they’re mocking, insulting, etc people who have issues with the current focus, direction, pacing, etc of the comic and use this section to express that.
I didn’t make this personal; I didn’t bring up how long I’ve been reading, didn’t argue and don’t feel I’m entitled to anything on that basis or any other. Rather, I take posts like the one linked as an indication that Willis does not want to have any further dealings with a certain segment of his readership (and again, I will not speculate as to how large or small that segment is) … and I’m increasingly inclined to take them up on that.
tl;dr – “You don’t want us around anymore? … okay.”
Ok. Leave then.
Also:
If Willis wanted any of us specifically to stop reading, they’d probably block us?
They have that power.
As long as we remain unblocked, it seems fair to assume that vent skeets aren’t about us.
Like, kind of beside your point, but genuinely if they wanted any specific commenter to go away, it’s not like they don’t have a very easy way of accomplishing that.
I didn’t take it as a personal jab at me, no – more, as others have said, an entire category of readers which I happen to be part of.
Well. To that I will just say that I think it’s a very gentle jab…?
Some readers are having a decidedly Darth Vader “NOOOOOOOO” style reaction whenever these two are on-screen together, and that’s really all Willis is pointing out in this particular skeet.
And me, well, I didn’t think the NOOOOOO’s were fully earnest? I thought the frustration with returning to the Joyce/Dorothy Zone, so to speak, was sincere, but that folks were being deliberately hyperbolic about their frustration.
I would be surprised if Willis thought they were making fun of deeply held beliefs rather than hyperbolic exaggeration, but…
I don’t know. I’ve gone back and forth on it today. I agree with Nymph and I agree with Dot, but also I don’t think one has to take it on the chin — I think how you feel about it and whether you put up with how it’s making you feel is up to you. No shame in not “toughing it out”, so to speak.
I thank you, sincerely, for this thoughtful response.
Heh, you’re welcome.
I know for me, Star Trek: Discovery was a show I didn’t completely enjoy on its own merits, but I had a friend that I watched it with every week. We did sort-of live watches together over an instant messaging service, basically, and we made predictions and talked to each other about which parts we liked and which parts we didn’t… and even as th latter started to outweigh the former, I still really liked the specific experience of watching it with her and complaining together.
I stopped watching Discovery because I… well, I lost that friend to the pandemic.
But I still remember that feeling of looking forward to each episode mostly not for its own sake, but for the social aspect of nitpicking it with her.
So: I definitely know that there can be fun in the kvetch, so to speak. And if you’re enjoying it, I wouldn’t let anyone else make you feel like that’s somehow not a legitimate way of engaging with art — very much including the creator, heh.
But the critical part is your feelings! 🙂 Especially with the state of the world, honestly. You should take care of you and yours. There aren’t enough hours in the day to worry about what strangers think of you over something as silly as not enjoying a webcomic storyline — even if that stranger happens to be its author.
I wanna be real for a sec and clarify I don’t actually think Willis has any personal feelings one way or another. hence couching my phrasing with vague, qualifying terms like ‘feels like’ and ‘a vibe’
It’s hard to tell because of the way the website is, but I was responding to St. Clair, not you. Hence not actually interacting with the specific language you used.
No worries. Curses be to the formatting
Jesus wept.
So I’m given to understand.
they are being cute and gay yaaaay : )
i wish we could get more time on becky and her conversation with dorothy but i guess it might be an issue where i am reading the strip day to day instead of like waiting a month and catching up, this is going to inevitably feel kinda awful waiting for something to happen i think
it didnt occur to me that dorothy might have just abandoned becky because she shows up in another strip? i dont really understand that, i guess it is a pacing issues but i really dont analyze it that minutely ???
It makes me worried that the previous few strips were inserted later, and the coo-cooing over Dorothy and Joyce was just straight up months on end originally. Now we get Asma inserts as… something.
I doubt it, if only because the strip of Becky peering out the door at Ruth with her new haircut was already part of a preview on Willis’ tumblr way before the storyline dropped, and that strip flows smoothly into the scene with Dorothy. Compare that to the Asma and even some of the Raidah ones which do feel a bit… stapled together sometimes, and it pretty clear. To me at least.
I think people have latched onto this “inserted comics” thing way too hard. The only comics they’ve mentioned inserting were the Asma ones and those were specifically to deal with an inclusivity issue that was pointed out to them and that they agreed with, not to try and cuddle up to the comments section.
Given Willis’ general attitude about people complaining about J&D I highly doubt they are in any way motivated to insert strips to deal with those complaints. They’ve pointed out again and again that they don’t care about, don’t agree with, and aren’t suffering as a result of those complaints. Why make extra work over an issue they don’t agree is an issue?
Hard agree with this point.
Thirded.
Agreed
This is unrelated to the current strip but something just struck me – if Book 14 is “Hell isn’t real,” that sure does set up Becky’s corollary that “Heaven isn’t real” with all that implies as well.
Clever Willis…
It’s Willis’ comic, their story, their choice. Their sense of humour is their’s too. Personally, I mostly enjoy it and when I don’t, I am probably simply not equipped with the right social background.
If I didn’t enjoy it, I wouldn’t be here. That’s because reading the comic (and any links I follow up in the comments) is also my choice. Seems pretty simple to me!