I was a big fan of Its Walky, so like, I get that he had his own comic and maybe Willis is a little bored with him. But I do miss him and hope he gets more spotlight soon.
Is it too meta with folks pointing out how it’s a comic and there’s always a need for levity—the punchline of this strip is that the character who hides their emotions and feelings, seen by the cast as just a goof, gets dunked on?
There are in fact many jokes in Brooklyn 99 that paint Jake as a bad cop, and in fact it would probably be a better show if it was more willing to lean into the 99 being bad cops
I do think the issue is that when a work is in full drama-mode, rapidly shifting gears into a main character being comically mean isn’t going to work for everyone
I do think this is funny, but I confess I am disappointed that this is taking up the space of an actual serious break-up scene. I wanted dramatic catharsis, not comedic catharsis. Maybe that’s the point, hard to judge at this point
This is … The 4th time Walky and Dorothy broke up.
1st time Joyce made Walky take her back.
2nd Time was studying.
3rd time “grades are slipping” unfair to keep yanking you back.
This is the 4th time.
But I might be forgetting one or nonconsensual Dorothy going back to Walky.
5 was Amber in Halloween.
But Walky sort of dumped her first out of loyalty to Sal.
6 was lucy.
7 is here.
He pretend dumped Amber at Dinner.
So there might be 10 Walky dump scenes in all.
Not saying I wanted something super explosive and shouty, but I kind of wanted to feel something other than ‘sensible chuckle’.
That’s part of why I’m withholding judgement, because it’s pretty possible this is a delaying thing for pacing reasons and the actual unpacking of Walky/Dorothy 2.0 fizzling out is going to happen later in a way that delivers the goods.
Walky / Dorothy 3.0 is going to come back so fast that pretty soon people will be commenting that Dorothy never actually stated that she was breaking up with him in this comic, meaning that they never ended it a second time.
They ended it a second time 10 years ago.
Walky dumped first.
Dorothy dumped him second for more study time.
This was Walky / Dorothy 3.0 or 5.0.
( Agree with you commenters will say she never stated it.
But the intent is clear and on the paper )
I don’t think they are coming back because Dorothy wanted Joyce the whole time.
And this never should have happened. Walky was circling back to Amber when interrupted by lucy then Dorothy. This ship is over.
Joyce x Joe feels aborted prematurely.
Being vague about publishing to in comic timeline aside, wow, it has been 15 years. I’m pretty sure that’s longer than 8-Bit Theater’s long rear brick joke set up. Not quite the same thing, but still.
I, like Willis, am profoundly unconcerned about Walky’s feelings in this storyline. Get fucked, mascot boy. This book is for dramatic shenanigans and you have opted out.
How is it that I never pieced together that booster was meant to be the DoA equivalent to the booster rod. When I have reread it’s Walky like, 3 times now? I think only one of those rereads was in this decade though. (I got to the faans crossover anyways and then end up switching to another faans read through on more than one occasion, now there’s a comic I’ve reread like 5 times by now).
Uggghhh… a part of me wants to be mad at Joyce for this… but honestly, after all the grief Walky gave her before by telling her she was gay for Dorothy makes this petty but also minorly justified to me. Is it a douchey thing for Joyce to do? Absolutely. However, Walky has been kind of a dick to her for this exact thing for months. I think the wind being taken out of his sail makes sense.
Controversial opinion: I think Joyce hasn’t done anything seriously bad this arc, but she should. I think she should push Joe off a bridge #pushjoeoffabridge
If this means she’ll remember every day to take her hussy pills AND without drinking a liter of sugar water every damn day, I’m welcoming our new Hussy Joyce Evil Overlady.
Panel 6: Dina runs in and kicks Walky, and then, as he’s painfully curled up in the fetal position, asks him if she correctly interpreted the social obligation.
I think it can be funny and cruel. I don’t like trying to undercut what people take away from how they read something. I also think it limits the comic and characters by saying “it doesn’t count cause it’s just a joke.” To me this is funny and Joyce and Walky’s relationship is more toxic than sibling coded and that actually makes it even funnier! Like yeah, Joyce will do this because she’s been spitefully jealous of Walky for 15 years! It’s a great payoff!
This is kind of funny and it’s a funny payoff to the Joyce/Walky relationship, but it’s also clearly not the “it doesn’t count cause it’s just a joke” last panel punchline kind of thing. It actually changes things. It keeps Dorothy from actually having to confess to Walky and us from seeing how they deal with it.
Dorothy has not, in fact, broken up with Walky at this point. After a discussion with Joyce about assumptions regarding exclusivity, she can come back and pick up with, as I was saying before Joyce interupted …
And is Walky supposed to pretend this didn’t just happen?
Even if she hasn’t technically broken up with him, he now knows “the difficult thing I’m trying to say”. He’s not going to ignore it, just because it was set up as a joke for us.
And frankly, while I hope they do talk about it again, right now he’s been dumped and I won’t blame him at all if he acts like it.
I mean, he IS being dumped. If your partner hems and haws at you for 10 minutes and then gets yoinked away with a smile on their face by someone going, ‘she’s mine now, you two are through’ and they don’t say ANYTHING about it… you’ve been dumped. By a coward who didn’t even have the decency to do so themselves.
Ya, but if a joke doesn’t respect the dynamics of the characters relationship then it gives the reader less of a reason to care about those relationships.
I mean, cruelty is exactly how I treated my little brother most of my pre-first-puberty years, and I’d wager is not uncommon among sibling dynamics. This doesn’t even really register on the scale compared to some of the shit I did.
She’s about to get outed by the newspaper to her longtime best friend who threw away her life just to be with her. She’s allowed to gloat over a romantic rival.
If, during the middle of Joyce talking to Joe, Dorothy ran in, grabbed Joyce, laughed in Joe’s face and left, would we still be saying that was OK?
Would JOYCE think it was OK? Because that’s exactly what just happened here.
Person A was in a romantic relationship with their partner, whom Person B did not like. They were having a serious conversation and Person B decided that it didn’t matter and that the partner was not entitled to consideration and decency.
I get that this is a comic strip, and it needs punchlines, but when the punchlines make characters we are supposed to like act like bongos, it’s kind of self-defeating.
they are 18 and supposed to act like bongos, their hormines and endorphins are running wild, and walky and joyce have been humourly ripping each other in a very fraternal manner. in no way is this interaction out of character for the dynamics these 3 have thus far,and wakly even acknowlegdes that he knew he would eventually lose dottty to joyce.
to anwer you question though, with the way joe has handled all this i do not think he would be effected any different than walky, as well with they way joyce feels for joe, i could see joyce saying the same i will be back and we will talk about this. given the panic of the moment, if i was walky here/joe in your scenario, sure i might feel hurt in the moment, but once context behind the actions came to light i would in fact be extremely if not completely forgiving of it. there is shared trauma and history here to be aware of, and both of these guys are aware of it/have been directly involved it this. is it a shitty thing to do yes it is. do i understand why and how it could happen, yes. do i believe this mitigates things 100%, and would if it were to occur to me in this moment with the knowledge available to the participants here, i would be understanding and fairly forgiving.
i do not get the drive to analyze each event in the comic as though it has occurred with out context or as though it occurred in a vaccuum. the only events that should ever be analized in this manner are scientific experiments in which we can control the context of the experiment.
as an example if someone was to examine a singular event from my life to this degree while removing the context of the fact that the world around me exists and has a direct and uncontrollable influence on life. they would enrage me and i would very likely lose all desire to have this person in my life. the refusal to recognize the context of the world around exists and it’s influence of the events that occur may simply be my single greatest pet peeve. life does not exist in a vacuum and there is no reallife situation that should ever be analyzed with out at minimum acknoledgement that there is context that also needs to be analyzed or a statement that you are actively ignoring the context.
Nope. In this scenario Joyce doesn’t get to say “i will be back and we will talk about this” any more than Dorothy does here.
The scenario is just Dorothy jumping in at the start of their conversation saying “She’s mine now. I win, you lose” and yoinking her out laughing.
she never really did even when joyce was teling walky why he wasnt good enough for her, not argueing she should have been the better person or that it wasnt mean just that it did not occur in a vacuum
At this point I want Walky to call Dorothy out for how unconcerned she’s been for him between going back and forth on wanting to date him to being fine with Joyce being an ass, Walky might be the chill one but it would be nice if he stood up for himself on getting his feeling always put last on Dorothy’s list when she’s souppposed to be at minimum his friend too and she hasn’t Bern for a while.
Also, the nature of their current relationships was wildly different. Walky’s emotionally intuitive enough to have caught the vibe that Dorothy was kinda using him as a placeholder, whereas Joe had every reason to believe Joyce was serious about them. To argue that Walky totally thought Dorothy was as serious about their relationship as Joyce was about Joe, you’d have to think Walky was pretty freaking stupid.
Also I think the “HA” punchline is actually BETTER for pathos! If it ended on the “Guess I sorta always knew that’d happen eventually” line, it’d be easy for readers to just shrug it off. This actually increases empathy for Walky in a way that’s thematically important, while reinforcing a character dynamic they’ve always had! It makes us imagine the reaction beyond his “well, that just happened” exterior! It’s good character work!
And yeah Joyce is being mean but this is the one avenue in which she’s been consistently mean for the entire comic!
(It’s funny, when I first saw the comic I was like “hmm I’d like the punchline better without the last panel” but reading others’ opposition to it makes me appreciate how well-crafted and important it is, both to the humor AND the emotional core)
If you tell the same joke, but with different characters who have different personalities, different interpersonal histories, are in different situations, and will react in different ways, is it still the same joke?
I strongly agree. It’s like jumping into a hilarious yet mean-spirited yet totally reciprocal and expected joke between myself and close friend and analyzing to death how awful of a person I am.
Like sure, if you take some comment I make completely out of context of a long friendship, shared interests, some rivalry, and everything else around the decision, it might seem like an unforgivable and awful thing to do.
In context, though, it might be a goofy and playful thing that’s only mildly hurtful though. Also, this is a comic meant to be funny and these are 18 year olds.
I haven’t spent much time in the comments and mostly jumped in out of excitement for the poly representation (which is cool regardless of how it specifically ends), yet so much of it is such high school, Puritan bull that I really feel like I need to go back to ignoring comments entirely again.
but in all seriousness if you find reading the comments/the strip it self is effecting your happyness please take a break, and we will welcome you back with inane arguments and hyporbole and hypocritisms and when you return!
You can only complain so much about getting hit by Apollo’s dodgeball if you’ve spent the last semester yelling about how good a target for dodgeballs you are
I feel it will be more balanced out once Walky recovers enough to snark back. I mean, he already immediately snarked back with “knew that’d happen eventually” and then she snarked back with liek a Mandark laugh.. It’s 2:1 Joyce this strip. And Walky’s point isn’t even a joke any more.
Joyce still isn’t as mean as his mom though. But Joyce and Walky both goof through awkward situations and are plastic enough to become better unlike that scary woman. This is still a mean moment and I understand your hate, but they will work it out later I think.
Who is Joyce rushing to meet with Dorothy, instead of Walky?
I mean, it’s hard to remember everything from 15 years worth of strips, but I’ve just never seen that. It seems to me that Joyce ONE TIME overheard Walky being mean, saying she was “hella indoctrinated”–which it’s worth noting is an opinion she now agrees with so strongly that her bitterness over said indoctrination caused a rift with Becky–and that essentially all of the dislike and meanness has been on her side in response to that one moment–while Walky is not really much worse than indifferent to her.
Walky’s definitely made a couple mean jabs to her. I think there was once when Joyce was complaining that Walky gets all of Dorothy’s free time, and he goes, “okay, we can meet each other halfway. You can be there and watch while we make out.”
He’s cooled off on her a lot ever since the ‘indoctrination’ remark, other than the occasional ‘haha lesbians’ remark.
It’s funny, I’ve several times recently cited Walky’s constant lesbian comments as evidence that he knows what the score is between Joyce and Dorothy, and got, “nooo it’s just an immature teenage boy being a jerk!!111!” as a response, but as soon as it’s Joyce being mean to Walky, it’s all, “What did he ever do to deserve this?????”
Walky is being a dick here but also two wrongs don’t make a right. You pointed out Sal calls him on it here so like…even the narrative is painting this teasing as bad. So I’m justified in calling Walky a jerk there. I’m justified in calling Joyce a jerk here.
But one is happening right now. I don’t think most of us are under the impression Walky is some pure angel who’s never done anything bad but moreso that this seems disproportionately mean if we’re meant to believe he cared about his relationship with Dorothy. And since the comic hasn’t called her on it like Sal did to Walky we feel more inclined to criticize her behavior.
Irrelevant. My point is that the reason people are mad at Joyce right now is cuz Joyce is being an asshole right now. Go back to all those strips and I bet youll see tons of people calling Walky an asshole cuz he’s being an asshole.
Okay. I didn’t say no one could call Joyce a jerk. And I do feel like it’s important to note that while you may not be saying Walky is an innocent angel, John was replying to Lee’s comment.
“I mean, it’s hard to remember everything from 15 years worth of strips, but I’ve just never seen [them being mutually awful to each other]. It seems to me that Joyce ONE TIME overheard Walky being mean, saying she was “hella indoctrinated”–which it’s worth noting is an opinion she now agrees with so strongly that her bitterness over said indoctrination caused a rift with Becky–and that essentially all of the dislike and meanness has been on her side in response to that one moment–while Walky is not really much worse than indifferent to her..”
I’m on my tablet here so I’m not going to try to provide links or anything, but Sal got on Walky’s case once, in half a dozen or more incidents that we’ve *seen*. Walky has been low-level harassing Joyce about her beliefs, her upbringing, and her sexuality practically since the day they met.
And, yeah, Joyce is being hilariously mean here. And I believe that you don’t think that Walky’s a perfect angel. But there are plenty of people in the comments here who are pretending that this is unprovoked unilateral aggression on Joyce’s part, and it’s so, so not. This is just her response to the last *five months* of microaggressions in a fight that *Walky* started.
Neither of us is saying Joyce isn’t being mean. We are only saying it wasn’t unprovoked, which again, you aren’t saying, but Lee, the person John originally responded to, was. Lee asked what Walky had ever done to Joyce, John provided an answer.
Yeah, you’re right, I’d forgotten that he’d made jabs like that over years.
But I still don’t entirely agree with your second paragraph. I think people say that because Walky has been a jerk and/or crass with the way he teases her at times and probably deserves the same back from her, he *hasn’t* crossed that line of “intentionally and maliciously being hurtful with it” and *doesn’t* deserve that back. Yet, today at least, Joyce gives it to him anyway.
Again, that doesn’t mean he’s *innocent*, but if Walky deserved a “that was a bit too far” from Sal in your example, Joyce definitely deserves one from Dorothy today.
Walky recently (past 2 years) had a jab at Joyce where he asked her “what’s it like only knowing a small fraction of the world you inhabit” because she didn’t know who Taylor Swift was. Which, as a fundie myself, I can tell you still stings quite a lot.
However I agree, that’s still leagues nicer than today’s mean-spirited crap from Joyce.
walky made fun of her for not having his girlfriend every other time they spoke to one another, so like. idk, it seems very tit for tat with these two. They have never had anything other than a mutually antagonistic relationship with one another. I wouldn’t even classify them as friends. In walkys previous onscreen appearance he was insulting her and callong her delusional behind her back. idk why ppl think he’s innocent or beyond this
he mocks her for being a victim of a cult, he mocks her for being closted, he mocks her for being stupid, he mocks her for the way she dresses, what she eats, her media taste, They’re Both Like This.
as my mom always said, if you are slightly mean to someone you are still being mean, and you cannot control if they escalate to a greater level of being mean. just be cause you inlicted what felt like a minor harm on someone else you do not get to control thier reaction, it may be a reaction that socioty will never accept as a reasonable or justified reaction, but you DO NOT get to control it. every action will create a reaction, and unless in a scientifically controlled enviroment you get no control. so always try to do as little harm as you can and do your bet to be forgiving in the moment.
or as we are all told “if you do not want others to harm you do not cause others harm.”
for example i am using my ruler as a diving board for GIJOES, and one of them joes hits someone and they break my ruler.
is the response extreme and greater in proportion to the harm i caused, i would say yes, but I am still the instigator, i still caused the other person harm, and i am still (to me) in the wrong and should apologize. hopefully the other party will accept the apology and forgive but i do not get to control that.
I do not agree, but even if I did, it didn’t come from nowhere. It is very shitty of Joyce to act like that, but Walky did it multiple times, mostly for fun… I’m sorry, but he stained the relationship first.
I was hoping for Joyce to be better than that, and feel sorry for Walky, sure, but I do not think she is being worse than he has been.
I’d have to go back and dig through early strips to see who was first, but Joyce spent a lot of time saying he wasn’t good enough for Dorothy, both to his face and behind his back.
But mocking someone for losing when you’ve just gotten their girlfriend to cheat on them with you is just way beyond anything Walky’s done. But hey, it’s funny. We laugh. No consequences. Walky’s probably not even going to be mad about it.
if you’re gonna complain about the technical-as-opposed-to-hyperbolic definition of evil, you should at least have a realistic “at worst”. that spin is near “at best”.
“Hey, me and your girlfriend cheated on you and now I’m going to laugh in your face and keep her from talking to you.”
In what UNIVERSE is this equivalent to the jabs Walky has made at Joyce over the comic? Hell, SARAH made more jabs at Joyce when she was talking to Jacob.
look to my comment above, if walky hadnot been mean and hurtful to joyce throughout the strips history she would have no reaso to act this way and then yes it is then completely unjustified, but t doesnt change tha fact that walky was rude and a bit of a bongo to joyce at the begginning.
i guess the hill i die in in this comment is the ignorance of the context of events.
And you selectively ignore that Walky’s responses to Joyce have been based on her constantly giving him the stink eye any time he was affectionate or spent time with Dorothy?
Walky didn’t attack Joyce on her blooming love for Dorothy out of nowhere, he did it because Joyce was aggressive towards him for no reason other than he was dating the girl she wanted.
but that ignores that walky was kmaikng fun of her and her religion whenthey met at the biggining of the year, thus being the one who initiated the dynamic that leads to joyce behaving like this.
not defending what joyce did as being right, just that it didnt happen in a vacuum
I’m legit a little mad that Joe and Walky are being reasonable about this. I want Walky to become the Joker and instead he’s becoming Martin Questionablecontent
Marton isn’t here to defend himself from misspellings of his name, and if he were, he’d do it in the wimpiest way possible and then get talked over by someone more assertive, like an oxygen molecule.
Everyone is misspelling Mertan Wienerboy who opened a stupid millennial coffee shop in a fucking robot theme park city because he is the most boring creature in the universe, and it’s very rude
I might agree if that sort of thing was off topic, but saying that Joyce is acting shitty is hardly an unreasonable thing to talk about in the discussion for a strip whose entire joke is that Joyce is being comically mean to her romantic rival
Awww dangit, I was totally thinking of signing up with gravitar just to use that triangle smile as my new avatar, but I see you have beaten me to the punch. 😁
Yeah. I will say I appreciate this specific strip as a bit of comedy. In the Looney Tunes sense, this is hilarious.
But in the sense of this being a slice of life comic where we have gotten to know the cast, this is awful. Joyce skipped out on Joe in the middle of a needed conversation, which is at least partially about how she disregarded his feelings. She did this so she could go be cruel to Walky and gloat about Dorothy. I sincerely hope she’s not going to bring her girlfriend with her to talk to Becky, because that would be villainous, but that means she cut and ran on Joe for hijinks, which is also not great. And while this isn’t the fault of the strip or the author, I am preemptively tired from some stranger coming to talk to me like I am a particularly slow child for having a lukewarm opinion of how Joyce is acting. Like…what’s been going on is bringing out the worst in the real world too, eugh.
Over the years this comic had been more and more realistic, so it makes this comedic moments feel odd and out of place. It just makes Joyce seem awful. I always liked how caring she was and grounded.
This is kinda a low point for the writing, it feels like we are dropping storylines in favor of the Joyce/Dorothy being pushed further ahead than its matured. I feel like it needed more time to cook before it was ready
It’s not just that it’s a comedic moment that feels out of place, it’s that it’s used to derail Dorothy and Walky having this conversation.
I’m not even really bothered by Joyce doing this. It makes her seem mean, but that’s not entirely out of character, so whatever.
It’s the choice to cut this conversation off at the start. We could have had a couple of strips and got some reaction, then had Joyce burst in to gloat and drag Dorothy off.
And also that Walky’s reaction suggests he’s not going to be really bothered by it either, though this might make him less friendly with Joyce.
No you see… This is a funny ha ha gag comic. We’ve just been building up since .. January? for this great punchline with nothing but slice of life and relationship drama strips!
Willis is going for that Andy Kaufman grade humor right here.
Joyce began as a deeply personal and relatable character for me. I saw a lot of myself in her reckoning with her twisted fundamentalist upbringing and her “righteous” anger.
She’s quickly become one of the LEAST relatable characters for me in recent months. Surprising to say the least.
Yep. I get that she and Walky have a level of sniping banter that’s been pretty constant since the comic began. But this level of meanness, while funny in the abstract, is just way disproportionate to all that other teasing.
Also, as someone else just pointed out further down – Joyce goes to break up with Joe and is offered an open relationship as an option instead.
And then she goes to Dorothy and steals her away from Walky, completely shutting down any discussion of whether or not THEY would want an open relationship?
“I get to have both if I want (haven’t decided yet) but Dorothy can ONLY be MINE, ha ha Walky you LOSE.”
Absolutely! This was my first thought. Although it also makes me wonder if she’s not considering open relationship with Joe. Maybe telling him they will talk later is to let him know why she doesn’t think it’s a good idea.
The fact that she wouldn’t be willing to share with Walky seems like a contraindication for a poly situation.
She’s in laser focus mode; hasn’t let herself process the discussion with Joe at all yet.
That new information has been shoved onto her mental “think about later” desk because it’s too much to deal with now, until the crisis is dealt with.
She’s reverted to status quo plus one major self-revelation –
Revelation: Dorothy and me together romance
Status quo: snipe at Walky.
Like, it’s how my brain works when there’s a lot of things happening at once; adrenaline kicks in and everything other than solving the immediate problem goes out the window.
Believe it or not, Joyce doesn’t get to have a say on Dorothy and Wally’s relationship, she is floating here -because- she doesn’t get to have a say, the tone is not serious, the moment is definitely intended as humorous, this is not Joyce going “Dorothy you can’t date walky, Walky go tf away.” This is Joyce needing Dorothy for a crisis situation she is just recently aware of, Becky at this point is the best possible option, most likely she is worried about word getting back about this and her sister and all of them at the protest, to her parents and to their old church, which has actual life threatening consequences, and could even endanger them with the school and the police. Sorry, it isn’t a two week rebound with a guy who is preternaturally predisposed to taking nothing seriously, since ye olde times of “It’s Walky”, it might actually be something important.
Okay but if all that’s as serious as you’re saying…why is she pausing to be so obnoxious about it here? How could Joyce, in her absolutely horrified frame of mind when leaving Joe’s room, be able to get so wacky for this panel?
Either she deserves sympathy for being distracted and freaked out about Becky/Jocelyne/her family, OR this is a fun and silly and goofy moment of levity. I don’t really vibe with a character who can switch that on and off so easily.
You’re not missing out on much. People get mad at you because they assume you’re enjoying whatever set you off, usually followed by distancing themselves from you as quickly as possible because now they think you’re a dangerous lunatic who’s going to hurt them at the first opportunity, and any attempt to convince them you’re not will automatically be seen as a twisted manipulation with the goal of getting their guard down.
Not to get all Doylist about things here, but from a narrative standpoint this helps the audience grasp the emotional realities of the situation better: Walky was always going to deflect, but Joyce being mean makes us consider his deeper emotions more seriously. Joyce being maniacal makes us acknowledge her heightened emotional state AND reminds us of their past dynamic.
I don’t see how an alternate situation where Dorothy spends a bunch of strips being earnest and Walky deflects would have been better in any way? And I don’t understand why anyone would expect Walky not to deflect? it’s his entire deal.
Do you think Walky takes it that way?
At the very least, even if they have a later talk, Joyce broke the news.
In theory yes, Joyce can’t do the dumping here. Dorothy could stick her head back and say “Don’t listen to her, I’m not breaking up with you”, but unless she does something, in practice Joyce just broke them up.
Also, if she’s doing this because Becky might found out before they tell her, that makes it even worse. It was one thing with Joe – they’d talked and were at a point where it made sense that Joyce had to think about a response to his offer anyway. To jump in and derail Dorothy admitting the cheating to Walky, who’s the most directly involved because she’s worried about Becky finding out she’s bi is really kind of rough.
If this is more of a serious panic attack about her parents finding out, then it’s more understandable, but the mockery doesn’t fit as easily.
Joyce and Dorothy have both behaved jealously throughout the comic, but only Joyce has explicitly parsed those feelings as “it’s me versus him, and I want him to go way so I can have you to myself”, heh.
Yeah, but since the polycule really in question is a Joe-Joyce/Joyce-Dorothy thing, Joyce’s jealousy isn’t relevant. Joyce gets to have both of them to herself.
Dorothy’s jealousy gets in the way because she wouldn’t get Joyce to herself.
You know I think the jury is still out on Dorothy being jealous or not. I was just amused by the reminder that Joyce is the one of the three who’s DEFINITELY demonstrated possessiveness.
I feel like the trauma flashback of Joyce being kidnapped when she went on her date are pretty strong indications that Dorothy isn’t going to share well.
Oh I believe Dorothy will bring this up eventually. A, “Wait. You expect me to co date you with Joe? A guy I have had animosity with for years? But you just sped ran dumping Walky for me?” That is, if Joyce is going to consider Joe’s solution. Joyce isn’t thinking further than, “Yoink, got a girlfriend!” and “shitshitshit damage control.” either for Becky and/or family.
This arc not getting off on a great start is enjoyable because it’s laying a ton of groundwork for future drama. What’s to say Walky goes to commiserate with Joe before Joyce has time to come back and have another chat with him? Will the guys just be done with their girlfriends? Will all four of them actually communicate together at the same time?
It’s weird enough to make me feel the more ambivalent and sensitive stuff with Joe was added later, and this is how Willis originally wrote the cheating plotline, just gleeful and uncaring.
Also it’s not super clear if Walky understands this to be the truth, that it’s over again between him and Dorothy, for this specific reason, or if he thinks Joyce is just being Joyce and making the kind of possessive joke she has since the beginning of first semester. The last panel is a bit opaque and the way their conversation was cut off right at the outset suggests the posse that it will need to be revisited, possibly after some hilarious/hurtful misunderstandings.
Yeah like, I don’t relate to the fundamentalist upbringing part but I related to her sense of righteous anger and honestly a lot to the stuff with her grappling with autism (autistic myself). There was a lot about her learning to deal with social realities that I found really interesting and I connected with.
Now she just, feels like a selfish person who does whatever the hell she wants in the moment without a care and it feels like she’s just getting away with it for the most part.
No highly esteemed deed is commemorated here… nothing valued is here. What is here was dangerous and repulsive to us.
This message is a warning about danger.
The danger is in a particular location… it increases towards a center…the center of danger is here… of a particular size and shape, and below us, in the comments further down.
The danger is still present, in your time, as it was in ours. The danger is to the body, and it can kill.
The form of the danger is an emanation of paragraphs.
The danger is unleashed only if you substantially disturb this place physically.
Not a place of honor, sure, but take a little pride – none of us could have built something this toxic on our own. This comment board isn’t Uranium, it’s Usanium. We built it together. Come let us continue our traditions and poison the minds of webcomic nerds for many decades to come.
The future speech that requires them to understand our language but not the concept of toxic waste. To also be advanced enough to have archaeologists but not scientists.
And no, I’m not complaining about this as an academic!
The future speech isn’t actually a speech, it’s a summary of what they’re trying to figure out a way to communicate without them understanding our language.
I think it’s supposed to be written in a bunch of different languages, so that hopefully at least one of them is known by the hypothetical future archeologist.
The repetitiveness is intended to be more clear to future people they assume WON’T speak our language(s), but which will be studying snippets of our language to piece together and decode things, the same way we’ve operated with like, Ancient Egyptian.
DISCLAIMER: The following is designed entirely as a bit, is entirely facetious, and in no way portrays any genuine expression of flirtation, arousal, The Hunger™, or any similar emotion. The user known as Taffy is in a fully dedicated, long-term, monogamous relationship with an existing woman who is real and just got her hair dyed Halloween colors. Viewer discretion is advised.
I mean, obviously this is real, genuine flirtation because Taffy is experiencing The Hunger™ and cannot help theirself. I am so good at interpreting context clues.
Y’know, that adds a kind of adorable extra layer to his relationship with Ethan. I mean, looking back that was definitely there but I hadn’t thought about the angle where he pushed that aspect of himself down in order to appear more “tough” to people.
because it is being presented not as a cheating storyline but one of self growth and discovery for our mains, and as i have argued since the big bang occurred they are dealing with the consequence of thier cheating actions, just because joe/walky isnt getting upset does not mean that joyrothy are not facing consequences of the act of publically cheating.
What consequences? Sarah lightly scolding them? Joe is heading for pain but Joyce clearly doesn’t gaf. Walky is conveniently unbothered by the events. Danny called Dorothy out that should be a shitty person for the actions she’s taken and if he rips into her does she even care? Clearly not enough to heed his “Chesting is not a bi thing its a jerk thing” warning so what? I would be beyond surprised if Becky responded with anything more than a hell yeah
And that’s the most annoying thing about all of this, you can write bi characters getting together with same sex partners without starting them off as cheating on their partners. We ALL would’ve been fine with Joyce and Dorothy getting together at some point because it was the most obvious combo since Harley and Ivy. But starting it like this is just reinforcement of garbage stereotypes about bi people being unfaithful
1) because if these girls were single, and thus not cheating, they’d still be facing that possibility is the main one
2) because folks (like me!) who advocate for Joyce to face “consequences ” actually want “specific consequences ” rather than just “anything negative ” to happen.
you and i will never see #1 the same, i think we can agree.
yes them being single in that moment doenst make those not possible consequences. but that doesnt remove the reality that they were cheating when they did it.
there are about 450things that we could se would be different about the lead up to this moment that could have lead to the same consequences, but every one of those different thing could just as easily lead to them not front page kissing. and then we have an entire new hypothetical sequence of events that the only way to know what might happen would be to have willis write them. so to me we have to accept tje context willis has provided us.
we have a causal chain that leads from them cheating on the front page to the current situation, willis didnt write the story with them being single. he wrote it with them seating and it leading to this. and i will finish with this i have a blast discussing al this with everyone, and to anyone whose post i have lisunderstood i apologixe, and to anyone whose posts i have replied to if you have been hurt by my words you have my ablosute and unreserved apologies. i don’t like to cause harm to anyone ever, and to do so unintentionally is still wrong of me and ido regret doing so. and please understand my comments are meant to be either funny informative or specialtive, and if it could be read in a manner that seems hurtful 99% of the time it is unintentional or a typo.
OK, I’ll admit legitimately being confused you don’t see the logic that I, and Dot in another chain, are working on, so let me try and articulate it.
Carol wouldn’t go on the warpath if Joyce cheated on Joe with, say, Tristan. Sure, she might give Joyce a lecture about faithfulness and the proper role of a woman in a relationship, but it wouldn’t challenge her worldview and threaten her percieved control over Joyce. Carol would go on the warpath specifically because she saw Joyce doing something that proves she’s not cishet, and is thus slipping out from under Carol’s thumb. Essentially, she’s a piece of shit.
And so her being a piece of shit means that her doing bad things to Joyce hits *way* differently. It would mean that the punishment did not in any way shape or form fit the crime- because the part Carol would be mad about isn’t the part that’s bad behavior on Joyce’s part and, by corollary, Carol wouldn’t give a crap about the part of Joyce’s behavior that is bad behavior, the cheating.
It’s like if Bob is embezzling from a charity, but he refuses to sleep with his boss who then kills him for it. No one’s going to say “Bob deserved to die for embezzling”, and no one’s going to think his boss was justified in shooting him when it’s clear they did so in a jealous rage and were, in fact, also embezzling.
no i see that as being absolutely possible and agree that should the target of the cheating changes carol reaction changes, no arguments, 100% agree. wha t i have said is that no matter the hypothetical we discuss as a means of analyzing what has happenned what specific thing causes what reaction, it does not change what event have occured, and the facts of the events that have occurred as a whole from kissing in the protest to is while a result of many thing one of which is that it is an act of cheating.
I mean, amusing strip, and good to resolve this part of it all fairly quickly since even if Walky was going to be hurt by it, he’s absolutely the sort that would bury any hurt feelings under a pile of self-deprecation and comedic coping mechanism that are totally healthy and not going to result in a mental breakdown in 2-3 years…
…but man, Joyce is just acting like an asshole here. I get she’s in a rush for reasons, and we needed a bit of a comedy break, but this is not going to help her with the Joyce-haters…
Honestly, given that we saw Raidah earlier and she is both overtly transactional and doesn’t lie, if Walky needs a rebound from his rebound she’d probably be down to try and use his tenuous connection to the Dean and he’d probably find being openly used and disregarded more pleasant than Dorothy’s I DON’T WANT YOU ACTUALLY I LOVE YOU ACTUALLY NO I DON’T JUST GO DATE SOMEONE ELSE LEAVE ME ALONE NO WAIT ACTUALLY DATE ME NO WAIT ACTUALLY FUCK OFF LOSER BYYYYYYE routine.
there are some times in life that, when you don’t push back against something that somebody else is saying, you’re providing silent assent, whether you want to or not. This was deffo one of those cases for Dorothy.
Lately it looks to me like any time Joyce touches or flirts with Dorothy, Dorothy gets this same dazed smile, like she can’t quite believe this is happening but she’s pretty sure she likes it.
It’s not just since the reveal, she has also reacted this way to Joyce being overtly physical in a supposed platonic fashion – the strip where joyce is smushing their faces together comes to mind.
I’ve always felt like a huge amount of the hate various things in this comic get is because the comic will often mix in serious moments with semi-cartoonish comedy, and people will treat the latter as if it’s the former.
Never have I been so vindicated lol.
It feels tonally really terrible to be honest. Like, I’ve seen stuff that oscillates between the tones well, I just think this particular page is doing it poorly. I don’t think it’s very funny.
I’m reserving judgement until the next couple strips because Walky is the type to not react in front of Dorothy but if both the guys are actually chill about the cheating I’m going to be extremely fucking mad. Where is the messy drama I was promised?
I think the last strip lingering on the “David Willis Complicated Emotions Watery Eyes” kind of tells you everything you need to know. This strip having maybe the most stone-faced dead-inside looking Walky we’ve ever seen does too.
For Joe in his latest appearance, I think it’s clear he’s hurt/conflicted.
For Walky in this appearance, I could see it breaking either way. I do think one possibility has always been that walky’s not fully committed to this current rebound with Dorothy. So he may indeed just shrug it off.
Or it could affect him in some way. If so, he’s less likely than Joe to wear that on his sleeve though. This is a guy with an A+ in suppressing his feelings.
I mean, I said it the other day, but just narratively speaking, if the first two people told are cool with it, the third will DEFINITELY NOT BE. So I was kinda hopeful that Becks would be less devastated than others expect, but I’m losing that confidence.
(On the other hand, the fact that Joyce and Dotty are so certain she will be upset pushes my mind in the opposite direction.)
The issue is that Becky, and everyone else, are external to the situation. They have social stakes in their friends’s affairs (haw), but they’re not directly involved. If none of the parties directly involved take issue, then everyone external to the relationships come across as histrionic, and like they’re sticking their noses into something that doesn’t need it.
I think it’d be a cool subversion if they went to her, freaked out about her reaction, and she’s not bothered by it or congratulates them on joining the Women Are Rad club.
For all of the lingering jealousy plot threads that Becky has seen,in recent years we’ve almost exclusively seen her as a loyal and loving partner to Dina.
Maybe there could even be a “…seriously? I’m not STILL into you, Joyce, sheesh, get over yourself” (at least, as with Joe, on the surface. Maybe she buries the other feelings and doesn’t show them yet)
Well. The part I left out was my other prediction, that either Becky or Dina would ask “how did Joe take the news” and one or both of them also berate Jorothy for their actions.
But then I deleted that part because I figured I’d get criticized for proposing a story where two lesbians tell two bi women that the REAL victim was a hetero man. Idk, I just don’t have the energy to be called a homophobe yet again.
It’s gonna be fine though, no one is really going to call them bisexual after a while. At best we’ll get “Sapphic.”
The bulk of the comments will treat Walky and Joe as stepping stones into their lesbian journey, because of course they didn’t actually *Like* them, that’s why they treated them like garbage after the kiss!
The hetero normative brainwashing of society made them enjoy the weenuses… Weeni? And the pure womanly power of their True Love dissolved it like a Thanos snap.
But even if Becky or Dina ask, the answer is “Joe took it well. Said he’d expected it and even nudged Dorothy in that direction. We’re talking about a poly thing.”
Which leaves any further berating seeming histrionic as Dot said above. (Same with Sarah, if she keeps her previous stance now that we know Joe’s reaction.)
Because these are two week relationships that have been “cheated” (like, four or five weeks if you total the first round of Dorothy and Walky dating from three or four months prior), the girls just realised they had reciprocated romantic feelings for one another yesterday, and none of the main cast are such assholes that they’d hold a grudge about it? Well, Becky remains to be seen, her entire cope around Joyce not being into her was that Joyce was straight, so it isn’t someone being nosey or histrionic, it is in fact Joyce’s closest childhood friend who’s probably had a crush on her for over half her life, at this point. If unrequited feelings weren’t a big deal then we wouldn’t have this entire trope in romantic literature.
Anyway I get pretty tired of the massive hostility and demonisation of two teenagers in early days relationships who kissed each other a bunch over one day who are now trying to address that the next day, this isn’t degrassi it is a comedy webcomic, sir.
There’s no getting through to some, even if Willis drew some Regular Showesque God of cheating coming down and saying that they cheated and must play some game to get out of cosmic cheating prison there will be some who say it’s hardly cheating because they do not want to accept that Joyce and Dorothy did in fact do a pretty rotten thing to Walky and Joe.
Cheating definitely exists on a spectrum and this is on the milder end of the spectrum, but the reactions are low even for that.
Larger point for me though is that from a story telling point of view, if you want to do a cheating arc, commit to it. Don’t make the cheating so mild and the reactions of the people cheated on so mild that the audience winds up arguing if there was cheating at all.
no i do not readiny thing that is not here, (or periodically on bluesky) so i do notknow if willis explicitly said this is a cheating stroryline, and if not a cheating storyline but a mains journey of self discovery storyline where cheating has unfortunatley concerned, Would that framing change your opinion?
i get that for many that cheating is trauma (having only ever been in 2 serious relatioships one lasting only 10 months and the other is nearing 22 years and counting i have not experienced personally being cheated on but i have helped friends who have had it happen), and for many that seeing cheating not result in the destruction of the relationship for the cheater may feel retraumatizing, and minimizing of the harms the endured. to those i do say i am sorry you had to experience that pain, and state pain of all kind sucks, and i wish all can live their lives free of pain.
but i do not believe this narrative was a cheating focused narrative, if so we would be seeing more of the reaction and the mess. This isnt a cheating narrative this is a characters self discovery narrantive it has been since day one. and it is willis’ choice to make it so. i will argue to the heat death of the universe regarding that they are facing the consequences of cheating with the events that are occurring, and those events for me fit 100% with the rhythm tone and world of the story.
This is what I wanted but that just makes it “everyone is okay with the situation except for Sarah (and Joe who we will see the payoff in 2.5 years time, and even then that’s just sadness which is inherently boring to dwell on—coming from the place of someone who is sad all the damn time.)
Like… the most interesting reactions for me are fizzled out and dead in the water. Also, if Joyce DOES go for the poly option, she robbed Dorothy of that opportunity here and if I were Dorothy I would be rightly pissed that that conversation was stolen from me.
Literally Joyce does not get to have a say in Dorothy and Walky’s relationship and instead of grasping that even in the comments nobody has felt the dororhy-walky breakup warranted any thought because Wally just doesn’t do drama, getting tired of the take spinning it as Joyce destroying the option of a poly situation for Dorothy and walky instead of Joyce correctly surmising that there was no need to waffle here in the face of more pressing concerns because walky has never shown rage or possessiveness as character traits.
I am sure if Dorothy wants poly she will approach Walky about it after whatever, right now she doesn’t even know that’s an option and they probably would have just broken up.
“Also, if Joyce DOES go for the poly option, she robbed Dorothy of that opportunity here and if I were Dorothy I would be rightly pissed that that conversation was stolen from me.”
Maybe we’ll be lucky and this will come up, because that’s juicy, lol.
no reason to be pissed once context is known though. especially if this is closely related the joyces family trauma as i believe (and less so if its the becky stuff, it does become less palpatable of forgivabvle to me if the panic is becky based and not “i may lose my finantial packing/there is a cult my mom belongs to that has repeatedly put mine and my friend lives in danger and cost me one of them” based)
Plenty of reason to be pissed regardless of context. Joyce may despise Walky and even have reason to do so. Dorothy doesn’t. Dorothy presumably wanted to let him know without hurting him more than necessary. She didn’t want Joyce to jump in and proclaim victory and claim her as a prize.
Maybe forgivable if it’s an actual PTSD driven breakdown. Coming to get her to deal with the trauma is understandable given context, but how she did it is not.
i guess i should have phrased that more from first person view, as if this exact sequence of events was hoopening in my life and i then learned of the events i wasnt not there for i would be very forgiving.
Joyce doesn’t care about Walky.
Dorothy cares about Walky.
Joyce cars about Dorothy.
Joyce is needlessly cruel to Walky.
She VERY EASILY could have said “Hey, there’s an emergency, I need Dorothy” and left, but she went the extra mile to be cruel to somebody that Dorothy cared for. Joyce is being insanely selfish, only caring about her own wants and needs.
What anybody else wants or needs, including Dorothy, is completely irrelevant to her.
Thing is all that would do is hurt Becky’s relationship with Dina… which would actually be interesting but wouldn’t actually provide any real backlash because the backlash would be from Joyce being attached to women not thr fact that Joyce can’t be trusted in any relationship ever again.
I know right, Walky getting to get angry about something for once in his life was literally the only thing I was looking forward to about this storyline, are we really getting that sidelined to worry about fucking Becky? I love Becky, she’s a fun character, but **really**?
Like, I’ve been in love with my best friend who was into girls just not into me, but if she cheated on her boyfriend with a chick I absolutely would be offended if she was more concerned about my feelings than the dude she claimed to love at some point in time.
[If this ends up being about Carol or Hank and NOT Becky, I will eat my words and be more understanding, but so far everything I’ve kind of thought would be lame af/boring if it happened has happened and I’m kind of feeling bummed/weird about it.]
At this rate, I presume Becky is going to be fine with it too. If Joyce made someone upset, then she wouldn’t be a perfect cinnamon roll, and god knows we can’t have that.
The irony is that the comments tonight seem to be turning on Joyce and I think part of that is because so far she’s faced no repercussions for acting like a smug and selfish jerk, and not just to Walky. This could be intentional. I think Willis could be building to something. A few stern words from Sarah seems like pretty weak fallout.
Or, and please take this how you like, but it could be that kissing someone who isn’t your 2-week fresh boyfriend as a teenager just isn’t that big a deal, especially if you talk to your boyfriend about it within 24 hours, and that actually the larger priority here for everyone involved is making sure all the kids can stay at school, and that their lives and/or the lives of their loved ones aren’t freshly threatened after having been kidnapped by psychopathic fathers a couple months prior. I have had trauma even a tenth of what Joyce and Dorothy have been through and even contemplating having to be in that situation, after nearly ten years of distance from the triggering event, was enough to paralyse me for days. Really impressed at Joyce’s adrenaline if this is what she’s worried about.
I don’t think Willis ever said anything about mess, did they (if they did,I’d have some questions too lmao)? And commenters are just known to be wrong. I’m one of the people who was ok with/didn’t care about the cheating because surely the fallout would be interesting – and I do think it’s extremely weird Willis doesn’t seem to want to deal with any of that (aside from a lecture from Sarah).
It’s probably smart to reserve judgment though. I won’t, but it makes sense. I sort of think we’ll just immediately cut to Joyce/Dorothy but we’ll see.
It does, but that’s not really what’s been going on here.
We’re not seeing responses to the cheating pushed off by the pacing. We’re seeing them fizzle.
It’s not like we’re still waiting for Joe to find out and be angry about it. He’s not. We know he’s not.
Now, we’ve got at least a glimpse of Walky’s reaction and it’s basically a shrug. (In the last panel he’s more upset, but that seems directly aimed at Joyce coming back to laugh at him, than to being dumped by proxy.)
i have litigate my opposing point of view to you above, but tldr context matters, it is nota butterfly effect that the current events are 100% a consequence of them publically cheating. it’s just not as messy as some would like.
If Dorothy and Joyce, single and free as the wind, had kissed at the protest, essentially the same series of events vis a vis being outed by the paper would still have happened. That’s not consequences for the cheating, it’s consequences of the kissing. Thus far, the sum total of interpersonal conflict that has arisen as a result of the *cheating* aspect of it is that Sarah got mad. That’s it. Joe just ended up having a conversation he was probably always gonna have a little earlier. All the real material consequences have been external and adjacent to what Joyce and Dorothy actually did *wrong*.
the fact it could have aslo had the same consequences if theyy had been songle in that moment DOES NOT remove the fact that in that moment they cheated and are facing consequences for it. to inglore the fact of what has happened doesnt mean they didnt happen.
as i have said many times, just because the consequences are nt what you wanted or expected doesnt mean they are not still consiquences of the action that took place
only in this discussion. in the events being preesnted in the canon of the strip, their being outed on the front of the paper is a consequence of their cheating. we can discuss how events may have happened in a literal infinite # of options, but those hypotheticals do not change the presentation of event as they happen in the strip. in the strip the consequence of them cheating is possible familial violence/loss of financial security. there is a palatable desire for them to face consiquences in thier relationships in the immediacy (we may still get some of those, they may lose friendships, joe may still ( i do not think so) turn negative in his reaction, walky could go deep into a heel turn. but in the immediacy they are confronting the possible lon gterm life altering consequences, and rightfully so if i am asked (if this isthe becky panic some are predicting then i am completely of base and will have to re-evaluate then)
As I said yesterday, this is a fundamental misunderstanding of what I (and I believe many other so-called relationship paladins) mean when we talk about consequences of cheating.
I’ve basically accepted that you don’t get that and I don’t know how to explain it so that you will, but I’d appreciate it if you didn’t keep telling me I was wrong about what I mean.
Also, that has nothing to do with what I was talking about in that post. Even if I accepted your framing of “consequences of cheating”, my point was that the reaction to the last couple of strips has not been that they’re delayed but that some specific consequence are fizzling out. There could still be others, but Joe isn’t mad about it. Walky’s reaction seems to be a shrug. Other stuff could happen, but these don’t seem to be.
actually i don’t get how it didnt click for me earlier but your comments here have gotten through, and i apolgize for my misunderstanding. i will simply (attempt at least) to say my read of a lot of your comments have been more of the denial of what is currently occurring being a consequence of them cheating.
and for that i am sorry, cause yes i do see that you are commenting far more about the desired consequences than whether or not what is occuring is a direct consequence.
I think you relationships paladins seem to believe your experiences are universal. Like, if someone I’d been dating for a few weeks kissed someone they liked better than me, I’d be WAY more likely to go into a “didn’t I do it for you” FKA twigs spiral than be angry or feel betrayed. I’d be more upset about the fact that they liked someone else more than the cheating of like… a few kisses and waiting less than a day to tell me.
I think this will likely be what happens to Walky! That he’ll slowly go into a “why am I never good enough in relationships?” mini spiral that he tries to keep covered up.
And this IS a consequence! Making someone you care about feel really sad and go into a spiral is, to me, WORSE THAN MAKING THEM ANGRY!
Like there’s that Dorothy Parker poem:
ONCE, when I was young and true,
Someone left me sad—
Broke my brittle heart in two;
And that is very bad.
Love is for unlucky folk,
Love is but a curse.
Once there was a heart I broke;
And that, I think, is worse.
And that’s how I feel after basically any breakup where I do the breaking up!
That’s not the kind of drama I’m asking for and I’d thank you not to put words in my mouth. I want at least Wally to get just a little bit mad about how shitty Dorothy has been to him, not just with this, but with alarming consistency.
i have a suspicion wolky doesnt get as mad because he had joyce have had this antagonistic but not really frenamies going since the early days of the strip. he strikes me as being self aware enough to know that he has a hand in how joyce treats him. he cannot control how she has reacted to his needling and such.
i get that we want that but walky strike me far more the type to get mad on someone else behalf more than his own, and he has been shown to lean hard on the go with the flow type. we may want him to get mad, but is it really believable given the history of his character for him to do so
Well I’ve brought up a bunch that Joe and Walky both suffer from low self esteem and feeling that they don’t deserve better. Which is really sad to watch play out.
I have been been in an identical situation to Walky once (someone I was dating for a month got with someone they’d been crushing on for years and waited a day to tell me).
I have been in a very similar situation several other times (someone I was dating/otherwise involved with broke it off to be with someone they considered the ‘love of their life’).
The assumption that anger SHOULD be the primary emotion are driving me insane.
In ZERO of those situations was anger a stronger emotional response than sadness for me.
In two out of three of those situations the response I let the person see was “aw dang, I’m a little sad but good for you” because what were they supposed to do when they realized they loved someone else more than me, and that person was a realistic relationship option? Was I supposed to be upset that they didn’t wait 24 hours to break up with me first? That would have made that situation literally 0% less painful for me.
In one case I did say “why weren’t you honest about your feelings earlier?” in a slightly angry way during the breakup. In another, months later I got really upset and was like “why did you keep saying [things that made me think the relationship was more serious than it was] over a period of MONTHS?”
But in this case, it’s pretty obvious why Dorothy wasn’t honest about her feelings earlier: she was lying to herself. And she repeatedly said to Walky “i’m having emotions but I’m deliberately ignoring them” and Walky was aware of this and actually teased her about it! in their last interaction!
Basically I feel like the self-identified relationship paladins are saying that visible anger immediately upon an emotional blow is the only realistic/valid reaction and that’s just not… how ALL humans are. A lot of humans are like that, but not all of them!
If this doesn’t end up causing Walky to be sad or contemplative then yeah, it’ll be weird. But why is Immediate Reaction that is Explicitly Anger the only thing that’s treated as a valid response?
Why isn’t “suppressed Sadness, something that Walky has explicitly said out loud multiple times is his coping mechanism” considered a valid consequence here that anyone should care about?
Because the consequence so far is squarely on the victim and not the cheater. We want these characters to express in a way that makes it clear to the cheaters that this thing they did sucks. Maybe we will get to that. But we haven’t gotten it yet. And we keep jumping past opportunities to get it.
So for you a work of fiction upholding your moral standards by precisely punishing people you see as wrongdoers in a specific way you feel satisfying is more important than accurately portraying emotions that real people could have?
I think that’s the disconnect here: people who read a work primarily to see their moral impulses reinforced, and people who read a work to see interesting characters respond in different ways that are thematically or emotionally resonant to their CHARACTERS, rather than to an external morality.
Nope. You have no idea what my morals are.
Stop psychoanalyzing me. I want confrontation cuz I find it interesting. I relate a lot to Walky and a lot of his struggles with race and never feeling like you’re good enough and hiding behind humor speak to me. I wanted Walky and Dorothy’s break up to drag something out of him and for them to have an interaction and not a one sided drive by. I don’t fucking care about the “moral standards”. I want the “characters” to have standards on how they’re being cheated on instead of “welcome to shrug city”. It’s super uninteresting to me and a waste of potential of the one thing I find interesting about Joyce and Dorothy dating cuz I find them horrendously boring.
You said, SPECIFICALLY that your problem was “Because the consequence so far is squarely on the victim and not the cheater. We want these characters to express in a way that makes it clear to the cheaters that this thing they did sucks.”
To me, that sounds like you’re prioritizing two things:
1) wanting consequences to fall on the cheaters and
2) wanting the cheaters to “know that what they did sucks”
over everything else.
I think the characters have CLEARLY shown that they both know that having to break up with their boyfriends will hurt them, and that it sucks. They also CLEARLY know that kissing before the breakup was wrong.
So I don’t understand how you think the cheaters “knowing what they did sucks” hasn’t been satisfied.
And I don’t understand how I should interpret “wanting consequences to fall on the cheaters” as anything other than that you specifically want a character who did something you feel is wrong to experience more pain because you think that “feels” more in alignment with the kind of stories you enjoy.
God dumbiverse joyces extremely petty hatred of walky is literally never not funny lmao, like it so easily could’ve felt like a forced subversion of there old continuity selves dynamic like a lot of these kind of things tend to, but it always manages to feel both organic and fucking hilarious each and every time it’s comes up
I know we like to make jokes and facetious quips at the quality of the moral characters of these protagonists, but can I just say, without a hint of irony or humor,
being honest walky and joe are great examples right now, joe is loving and patient and compassionate and honest. walky is basically a stoic, understanding he only can control himself and his actions, and this moment is one he anticipated appening in the end, and in the moment is not allowing his emotions to cause him to act in a manne rhe may latter regret. and i think those are are admirabletrait we need more of
I guess I’m happy about this because it validates mine and many comments opinion that Dorothy x Walky 2.0 was really a meaningless rebound. He probably needs time alone at least that’s what I want for him.
I honestly really want that for him too. He may have been alone during the timeskip but he also had Lucy clearly buddying up to him with the hopes of dating him. Walky needs to be off the market for a while and just enjoy life.
I wish I could agree but unfortunately due to the pacing of the comic Walky can’t be “single for a while” because I’m certain only a month will pass in the next decade.
I just want bro to have a real friend dawg!😭 I don’t even care if it’s Asher! Maybe Jennifer has become cool again, maybe. I really just need at least one more person he can talk to that’s actually interested in his well being without sabotaging his relationship because they decided they wanna fuck him now.
honestly i see this as an oppoutrtunlity for him to bond with his sister, as unless willis is really wanting to upset people for the sake of it, she isnt someone he is trying to bone.
Walky has issues that are far beyond mere girl trouble. If anything, the romance stuff has been a reason for him not to confront those issues for a while.
Dude has been an absolute master of taking all of his Mike-shaped issues and burying them under 500 pounds of concrete, but eventually that foundation is gonna crack…
For SURE it was a meaningless rebound. It was Dorothy trying to manage and soothe her feelings with Walky, and it was Walky being too passive and apathetic to care about much more than the sex and company.
Hopefully we see Walky start trying to take direction and initiative in his life again after this.
I think it was more than just that for Walky. He also cares about Dorothy. Always has.
I feel like he went back to her because she seemed to need him, which was then derailed when he started to realize almost at once there was something else going on.
Willis changed the pacing of the DoJo arc in the middle of this storyline, long after Walky and Dorothy got back together, so there may originally have been more plans for that relationship.
Agreed. I adore how despite all the terrible people and situations they have encountered together, Walky and Joyce remain united by that most unbreakable of bonds … sheer unadulterated pettiness.
yes in the same inherent way we all deserve to be treated respectfully. has he made his bed so to speak with how he has previously interaccted with joyce also yes. 2 thnags can be true
I’m not on the ‘cheating makes Joyce the worst person to ever live train’, but I DO think this specifically might be the most unambiguously dickish thing Joyce has ever done…
…that said it’s also very funny so I still approve.
I think the “dickishness” of it would be blunted by removing the last panel, tbh. I don’t mind the laugh panel but it does turn it from 100% goofy resolution to 60-40 goofy-spiteful/petty. I don’t think people would be complaining about Joyce being “evil” without the last panel
Yeah, if the last panel was gone, I’d have way less qualms with today’s strip tbh. It’s like almost an anti punchline, the second to last panel of Dorothy just getting yoinked would be funny af on its own.
I disagree. Without the last panel I find it’s considerably less funny, and giving Walky the last line makes it feel more dour, which in turn actually makes Joyce look even worse. Like that spiteful laugh is so absurd that it takes away any sense of seriousness, which is good, I think you need to play this moment for for dark laughs and commit to it fully or it just doesn’t work.
Yeah well there were clones and aliens and goddamn literal resurrection in that universe, and Willis has said in commentaries that LOADS of stuff in the Walkyverse was weird and had weird ethics/morals and was HIGHLY influenced by their own (not yet deconstructed) indoctrination.
Comparing shit from the first three years of the old universe to this current one as if it invalidates the stakes and setting this time around is just absurd.
John looking at your comment I realize my last part was responding to Sajuuk-Khar and not you, so I apologize if that first message was unclear about that. I don’t mean to claim you were conflating the two universes.
No. Not at all. Look at Dorothy, Smallmoon. Look at Dorothy with her stupid adorable doinkers and her complete lack of combobulation and her nebbishy sub-ness. Look at her non-Newtonian physics every time she is in distress.
Dorothy is the miracle whip. Or the marshmallow crème. Or the Pop-Tart filling. She is going to get topped within an inch of her dumb nerd life, and that’s just facts.
Why? Joe is somewhere between “cool with this” and “all is proceeding according to my master plan” depending on how charitably you interpret his line about “nudging” Dorothy, and Walky has just been vaguely unpleasant ever since the timeskip but not enough to be interesting.
It feels less like people are seeing the hidden meaning and more like they’re writing fanfiction about how they want the story to go. And I get the impulse, I’m a big fanfictionposter, but that’s all it is. Joe actively wanted Joyce to sleep with Dorothy, and we’ve seen that through his words and his actions.
Saying that he’s secretly sad is the same as me saying he’s been planning a threesome with Dorothy and Joyce for months and working on a supervillain-ish manipulation plan to do it. You can read his line about “nudging” Dorothy that way, and it’s very fun to do so, but that’s not actually what the story is, and neither is “Joe is secretly tormented and when he says he’s cool with a polycule it’s a lie”
Okay but at present there’s no reason to assume that, especially since looking back in the archive supports what he was saying. Y’all are literally disregarding the text for what? To give Joe a reason to be wronged by those bad bad women he’s already forgiven in so many words?
And yeah so the thing is I know how to do that perfectly well, when the reason for the disagreement is not blatant misogyny.
Note Joyce immediately running off, stopping to give Joe some mild reassurance without explaining anything, and then two silent panels zooming in on Joe.
My interpretation of this is that its showing Joe’s isolation, him feeling left out an maybe anxious. Because… what’s the point of those panels otherwise? If he’s fine, then he’d make a quip like Walky is doing here.
He’s not. He’s just staring at where Joyce used to be. Unmoving. Silent.
There’s a difference between “anxious about this conversation being interrupted” (which we, as the omniscient readers, understand is happening for any of several extremely valid reasons that Joyce needs to address quickly) and “secretly martyring himself on the altar of Joyce’s happiness” like a lot of people have been asserting here for days
@Shiro (because we’re so far into the nested comments that i can’t reply directly)
I generally agree that I don’t think Joe is going full martyr or anything. But I don’t think things are quite so copacetic. Joe’s been dealing with a lot of self-worth issues over the course of the comic. Some of that was because he acted like a mega-ultra-asshole-supreme at points, but even that was related to him trying to mask his self-loathing with performative macho-sex-god nonsense.
Its not that Joe’s being wronged by bad women. Its just that relationships are messy, him and Joyce and Dorothy have no experience with polyamorous relationships, there’s just a lot of ways for things to go completely to hell without anyone being outright in the wrong.
I think looking back in the archive presents a long term view of Joe not actually thinking he’s good enough for Joyce. Hard to narrow down to a specific quote, but the one about “I don’t get to be jealous with my history” covers a lot of it.
Not thinking you have the right to be jealous isn’t the same as actually being fine with it and it’s pretty easy to extend that attitude to where he stands now.
We’ll find out eventually. I’m not 100% certain of this, but I don’t think it’s nearly as clear cut that he’s really not bothered at all as you do.
Yeah, the guy who wanted to be in a relationship, but pretended to be a dude bro for YEARS solely so he doesn’t break anyone’s heart, is *totally* on the level about sharing that first real relationship he’s ever allowed himself to have…
Can you explain why he wouldn’t be in a way that doesn’t make it sound like you think poly relationships are less than monogamous ones? He wants to be in a relationship, he gets to be in a relationship, no one gets their heart broken . . .
Can you explain the last two panels of yesterday’s strip in a way that justifies their existence and doesn’t note how the isolated frame and silent, unmoving stance of Joe doesn’t indicate that something may well be really messed up beneath the surface?
Joyce being suddenly distracted and running away to follow that distraction is an out-of-context problem for Joe. He never guessed anything like this could happen. He has no idea what to think about it. So he just stands there.
Joe really wants Joyce to agree to keep being his girlfriend. She ran off without saying yes, and Joe has not thought of what the newspaper photo might mean for the rest of her life.
Aside from eh, whatever’s response: there’s nothing about it that says he’d prefer a mono relationship to a poly one. The girl he loves just panicked over something unrelated and ran off without giving him an answer over whether she’d stay with him (or asking him to go along and help with whatever she’s so distressed about); he’s got multiple possible things to worry about, and there’s no evidence that the poly thing has anything to do with it.
No conclusive evidence that it doesn’t, either, but his words (which, yes, may be covering up his true feelings but, then again, might not) say he’s fine with sharing her with Dorothy.
The thing is, we don’t actually know, but lots of people seem convinced that their various interpretations are The Only Possible Explanation. And so people argue with each other.
Sure I’ll bite.
Because he was cheated on. Joe had accepted that Joyce liked Dorothy sure but he and she never discussed boundaries or openness. Even though Joe was actually OK with it the whole time Joyce herself was under the impression she had betrayed his trust and did it pretty flippantly. Sure she’s stealing a balloon on free balloon day but her intent was to steal.
For someone like Joe who witnessed his mother stay with his dad despite infidelity and has personal trauma based around that, it feels like his GF willfully choosing to, from her perspective, cheat on him should…feel some type of way.
This. All of this. And I don’t even think he’s okay with being poly, he just doesn’t want to let Joyce go. which is one of the MANY ways people try to use poly that gives it a bad name.
Poly in and of itself is utterly fine. Consenting adults should be free to do anything they agree too within their comfort level, so long as it doesn’t pull in people who didn’t/can’t consent.
The problem is I do not feel Joe is actually comfortable with this, nor do I think Dorothy has the mindset that poly requires. Joyce is also quickly turning into a selfish, unmindful person, and has lost the thread of what it means to be in a relationship where you respect your partners. What with her kissing Dorothy, then giving Joe fellatio, then probably kissing Dorothy again.
This is how I expected Walky to act. There’s an interesting handling of Walky’s relationships in the fact that it reverses the fact that the man is always the chaser versus the chasee. Walky doesn’t seem all that interested in a relationship right now but Lucy and Dorothy forced one on him.
I can’t remember if the garbage roof blossoming of walky x amber was mutual, more walky or more amber, but yeah wally is usually a passive participant in most of his relationships so far.
Walky has made fun of Joyce in the past, but Joyce’s behaviour, to me, goes far beyond anything he has every actually done. But this strip has been around for 15 years now, so I could be forgetting something.
He made a really cruel comment about Joyce’s religion, months ago, which she would probably agree with in spirit now. They both needle each other, but Joyce is being an out and out dick towards Walky here, and reveling in it. It’s not a good look!
Even with all the jokes and poking fun at Joyce that Walky did in the past few months (in-universe of course), I feel like he doesn’t deserve this level of mean from Joyce.
Walky has been making Drothy/Joyce jokes for in-universe momths. Imcluding at least once referring to her as “my girlfriend’s girlfriend”. Mostly in the form of mocking Joyce to her face. He deserves this exact level of meanness from her specifically.
And Joyce has been mocking and attacking Walky just as long. Often about how he doesn’t deserve Dorothy (or to a lesser extent when they weren’t together any other women).
This is a massive escalation. She just cheated with his girlfriend on him and she’s mocking him for it.
It had a start, and his behavior is most probably the only reason she said things like that to begin with.
I’m having a hard time thinking what Walky did was not harassment.
I still agree what Joyce is just doing is shitty, but I cannot agree she is more than marginally worse than him…
Honestly feels weird seeing people defending Walky getting cheated on because he was mean to Joyce throughout the strip. When if you look back in the archives, Joyce has legit tried to break Dorothy/Walky up for MONTHS and outright admitting to it verbally. So yeah.. Not a good look for Joyce gloating in this strip.
i do not defend the cheating, just the way she interacts with walky here, as this fits wit hthe way the have ribbed each other throughout the series. not saying it isnt mean, jus tthat these 2 characters have been doing this to each other throughout the comics
Like, not that Dorothy is bad! But their relationship is more “friends with benefits that Dorothy briefly mistook for an ethical framework” than something mutually helpful. There are definitely people out there who are better for Walky. I think he’ll be okay.
I think that Walky needs to get his shit together and figure himself out before he can actually be in a healthy relationship, dude is kinda just drifting without purpose.
I’m fine with him being a single, lazy burnout for a while!
I’m more wanting him to actually confront and address all the baggage that he has with Mike’s murder and his kidnapping that he’s buried under a few dozen layers of self-deprecation and snark.
Walky seems fine honestly. Dorothy’s the one who came to him looking to hook back up, quite specifically for sex and companionship because she’s feeling burnt out
I don’t think Walky was really the issue with any of his relationships (even if he did blow up his relationship with Amber suddenly). The worse one was probably his relationship with Lucy and the issue with that was that she has a very idealisitic view on relationships.
The silver lining is that Walky learned from his mistake, learned how to stand up to his parents and their bigotry, and as a result has a better rapport with his sister.
I knew that Walky would be super calm about this, just like joe he expected this to happen, but considering this isn’t even his first break up with Dorothy, he is just able to move on to the Acceptance stage.
Their relationship this time around was way closer to friends with benefits then any actual Romance being involved, Dorothy was not invested at all and I don’t think Walky felt much about it either, this was more a Rebound then anything.
A. Funniest strip in a while
B. Yes, Joyce is being cruel.
C. Walky is for Amber. I accept no other Walky ships.
D. This was always a sideshow, let’s get to Becky!
I agree with B-D.
This strip’s humor just didn’t affect me.
I’ve busted out laughing at strips before.
This one didn’t even make me smile.
I do get why people find it funny, tho.
I’m actually kinda surprised it didn’t get a chuckle out of me.
But it’s not a “Joyce is evil” type reason.
I think I might have just been hoping for the conversation to happen and it got bypassed.
Omg, Joyce went full Looney Tunes for this strip, and I am here for it! Genuinely burst out laughing, which i really needed after my day today. Thanks Willis.
The way Dorothy instinctively perks up when Joyce grabs, kisses, and yoinks her is adorable. Adorothy, even. She loves being dragged around by her girlfriend so much!!!
Ah, I see why this was the most controversial strip for the Patreon crowd now.
Personally this strip is WAY too zany in tone for me to take it seriously as a mean thing happening to Walky.
Sympathy to folks who were hoping for a specific type of drama that it doesn’t look like we’re going to get, although again this is SO zany that I’m not sure this is Walky’s real reaction.
(My hopes were always vaguer, but I’m also still riding high from “Joe suggested polyamory, specifically, out loud”, and as I’ve said there are things I would very much enjoy there even if it becomes wholesome immediately. It’s not what I wanted, but I would like it anyway, if that makes sense.)
I think it’s polarizing because about half of us met it on the intended level and half of us went “what the fuck, Joyce”.
Which is natural. If it hits you more as mean than funny, then yeah, damn. And people being upset about that in combination with everything else is understandable.
Side note: I’m not saying people who aren’t finding this funny are failing to tell what the intended tone is! In fact, I think recognizing that it’s the intended tone is part of why some folks are especially upset.
It’s been a real turnaround on this one! My initial reaction over Patreon-side was more “perplexed bewilderment” combined with “I expected this sort of interaction because Joyce and Walky do not get along because vibes”, and I have now come around to thinking this is really really funny.
Well this sort of sucks. If I was being charitable reading this I’d assume we’d definitely get back to Walky on this, but Becky (it’s definitely Becky) is more important in the moment – but I’m still just disappointed right now. Oh well! Onto Becky?
If I was being charitable, I’d assume it was Joyce panicking about her family finding out, because I can see that as being more important.
If I’m not being charitable, I’d think that both Joyce and Dorothy think it’s more important to soothe Becky’s feelings about Joyce being into girls but not her than it is for Dorothy to talk to her actual (ex now?) boyfriend who she just cheated on.
Which to be fair, if her “lightbulb moment” was due to realizing how ugly her mother’s reaction might be, and how dangerous the response might be (given what we know about Carol making excuses for Toedad over and over), I think that very much would constitute a “oh shit, this can’t wait” moment.
Oh I was talking about Willis as a writer, not any of the characters. I don’t really care about Joyce being mean, I care about Walky being an interesting character – I was looking forward to this because I’ve liked his & Dorothy’s dynamic & how it’s changed over time.
Pfffttt. Look at you fuckin’ plebs, out here getting mad at Joyce for her cruel words or whatever.
You are like little babies.
I’M over here on my philosophy throne made of my own brain being furious that Dorothy has the temerity to get horny over being yoinked away by the cruel monster that is Joyce, which proves that if Joyce is the Dragon, Dorothy is the Whore of Babylon, and
I know in the back of my mind that Chumbawumba has some straight bangers beyond their one big hit, like “The Day the Nazi Died”, but this brings that memory back to the front
Chumbawumba is basically a punk-alt-troll band that sold out hard for one song, got their bag, nodded at each other, and then went right back to their punk-alt-troll shenanigans, and IT IS AWESOME.
god i hope the urban myth that Tubthumping exists cause thy’re agent said “you guys will never create a commercially successful song and gave an all time banger to prove him wrong
woke: joyrothy is a knight/princess dynamic where joyce is the knight and dorothy is the princess
bespoke: joyrothy is a dragon/princess dynamic where joyce is the dragon and dorothy is the princess
since Joyce and Jocelyne are basically just if Mario and Luigi were white women, CLEARLY the play is for next halloween to have Joyce and Dorothy dress up as Mario and Peach
…joyrothy as bowsette/peach is also good though. i may need to draw that
I haven’t participated on the DoA Reddit, but I have gone there just for a different perspective. They are like the other side of the coin of this comment section sometimes, going to the exact opposite extreme.
If I talk to David Willis at a convention or in his bluesky or whatever, saying anything other that “You’re comic is great I love it” is a dick move. This comment section inherently supports a somewhat broader range of opinions than what’s polite to say to Willis’ face unprompted, but if I really hate a storyline at some point I should go talk about it somewhere where the author isn’t obliged to look at it.
Some people on the reddit are full-time haters who are maybe a bit unhealthily obsessed, others just don’t like this particular storyline and will come back to the comment section when there’s one they like better, and in the meantime they’re keeping to themselves instead of bothering people who do like it.
If you want to beef with redditors so bad just do it over there instead of this weird proxy stuff. I don’t care what redditors are up to genuinely ever
From what I’ve seen, each subreddit tends to be its own little community and, while there can be connections between them, there’s no Universal Standard Which All Redditors Fulfill or anything like that.
Same, and it surprises me how fast it happened. I used to enjoy seeing Joyce and found her relatable in some ways, but in the span of a month or two I’ve come to dislike her.
I didn’t like Joyce at the start of DOA. Like I GOT that she was gonna have an arc for her fundie upbringing but I just found her annoying. But slowly over the course of the story I started to go from disliking her to indifferent to actually liking her. And her arc post-timeskip is one of the few characters I felt was actually benefited from the timeskip. But man this previous arc kinda tanked all that good will. I don’t enjoy this direction her character is going.
Which ironically makes me less upset about the cheating plot cuz at least now Dorothy and Joyce are quarantining themselves by dating each other.
Sure he teases and needles her. He’s never stolen her significant other and then laughed in her face about it. The only reason this doesn’t seem as bad as it is is cuz Walky’s basically being written to just…not care.
Yes, but also one of his first significant interactions with her was telling her that going to college for a MRS “degree” was stupid. She then had to explicitly tell him to stop talking to her because she was irritated with him for saying it.
She already disliked Walky before he started dating Dorothy, and it IS animus that he started.
fff I’m so glad I said basically this same thing to you again, but without the clearness of the references. Sorry, thejeff! Pick which one you wanna reply to I guess.
Right with you Yoto. This Joyce is simply not the same Joyce I’ve been reading. This is not the same Joyce who called out Joe for the list and told him that he can’t minimize the damage of his actions and needs to be careful about how the things he does hurts others around him even if he thinks it’s insignificant. Be careful of how you affect others, except if you want to cheat then it’s fair game to forget the person you’re attached to. She’s just very lucky the guy who passionately hates cheating had very little to say about her cheating on him because she’s more important than the personality altering trauma he’s carried from his youth.
I would have liked Jorothy, but this rush job to get it to the current has not done it favors.
I’ve always heard it as being something you don’t come back from. “She bled out” has always been synonymous with “she died (by lack of blood)” to me. But sometimes people seem to use it for any major bleeding injury, even if survived.
Well it is extremely dangerous, I grant you. The only difference comes when using ‘bleeding out’ versus ‘bled out’. Like narratively you’ll have a character bleeding and yelling, “I’m bleeding out, get me something to stop it.”
Versus someone dead, and we the viewers told they ‘bled out’.
Grimey’s reply mostly covers it, but for instance I popped a stitch after a stomach surgery and was “bleeding out” until a nurse noticed my dressing got way too bloody way too quickly, then had an emergency haematoma drainage and re-stitching by my surgeon right there on the ward. I could have bled out, which would have been the end of me, though it does not negate that I was bleeding out until my wound was tended to. It’s just that bleeding out takes a bit, depending on the location of the wound.
For my part, I had a massive sense of dread, weakness, and light headedness, and felt like I needed to keep my arms above my head or else Something Terrible would happen.
The latest arc has definitely been a low point for me, and I DO feel that’s at least partially because Willis changed their initial plan drastically mid-illustration (I.e. moving up the Joyrothy timeline by apparently FIVE YEARS holy cow). It’s absolutely made the pacing feel wonky and done not-great things to Joyce’s personality IMO
However, DoA still doesn’t deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as QC for its pacing and plot. For all my recent complaints, DoA is still an incredible story with overall fantastic pacing and foreshadowing that pays off for me way more frequently than not. QC is terrible at this, often introducing new characters then overexposing them for a month or two before dropping them completely and never bringing them up again.
The QC comparison miiight have been a bit heavy handed I admit. I still read QC regularly and at this point just kind of accepted that is what it is like. Virtually no one is surprised Yay just kind of walked back on set after a mid-season break.
Where did he say he moved up the timeline, it’s not that I don’t believe you, that actually makes perfect sense for how the storyline has played out. I’d just like to see it with my own eyes.
It definitely feels like a rush job, especially because Jorothy has cut Joeyce off right in the midst of the payoff. It’s weird to spend so many years developing this relationship just to throw a surprise third in and the characters have been acting incredibly unlike themselves to get to this point.
I’ve been silent because I’ve been trying to see how it feels, but it has not felt any better. Joe not even being at the least slightly annoyed at Joyce for cheating even though his entire personality at the start of the series was created by his disdain for how cheating effects people was just one of the final nails in the coffin.
There just too much happening to make this timeline work at the current, and throwing Willis throwing in the cheating angle because the wife pointed out nobody has has thrown another unnecessary wrench, and the poly also seems tacked on as an apology to people who like Joeyce for interrupting it with suddenly Dorothy.
He talks about it on either a free part of the paetron or the Bluesky. he was going to have Joyce and Dottie slow burn it then said “Bongos, we ball” and threw out a years worth of buffer for… This.
I don’t think he threw out a year’s worth of buffer, the buffer thing is more addressing the Bulmeria stuff I’m sure. Otherwise, he clearly had this written and drawn out like…well, a year ago! The thing about Dumbing of Age is that there doesn’t exactly seem to be an end point, at least not until Willis has deemed it to be the end point. A lot of his comics are similar, honestly. He writes stories as they develop and go. When he started DOA, I don’t think he envisioned it going on for 15 years, but I also don’t think he has a specific plan for it.
In a way, I’d say this comic is his sandbox. He throws his characters in, writes them doing things, and then follows up on what’s happening as it goes along. While he does say he didn’t think Joyce and Dorothy would happen until five years from now, that doesn’t mean he had five year’s of content that he threw in the bin. He probably just figured he’d stretch it out further and further but as he was writing, he saw his chance, took it, and now is writing the aftermath. I’m not saying you can’t be upset or disappointed, I just think saying he threw out a year’s worth of buffer would be disingenuous.
Leslie in 2010 to Walky and Joe specifically: “Sorry to disappoint you, but Dorothy and Joyce are in lesbians with one another, so you two boys trying to date those two in particular is doomed to ultimate failure.” ( https://www.dumbingofage.com/2010/comic/book-1/02-uphill-from-here/why/ )
He’s said since “at least before the timeskip”. It is explicitly why Dorothy and Joyce are next to each other in the final rooftop scene.
He advanced the timeline, but not by as much as some folks seem to think.
He also ALMOST started this whole thing in before Joe made Joyce mac and cheese, so that’s something to keep in mind, too: there are THREE potential timelines here, one that waits 5 years for the kiss and one that did it 3 years sooner.
I think we will see Walky’s emotional reaction to this later. I can’t imagine he’s taking this that well less than a week from Lucy moving on to Jacob making him feel so insecure, not to mention last time we saw him he was condescendingly mocking Joyce’s attraction. I don’t think he even wanted to date Dorothy again to begin with and just enjoyed their comfort and sex, but like no way he’s just this okay.
I still don’t understand that vote option or what it was referencing, can you help me out please? Was it someone posting an unhinged rant or something?
Kinda! There is a very specific type of commenter who will go on Tumblr or Reddit and describe in detail the type of body horror scenario they might like to re-enact as a form of ‘revenge’ against a specific character or thing. It’s not exclusive to DoA, it can happen in any fandom where the investment might be running a little too high.
Ah okay, thanks for the answer. Didn’t know if it was a specific reference or just the bog-standard terrifying hatred of women that festers in the dark anonymous pits of the internet.
It’s Willis referencing the people in the comments who are absolutely fiending for Joyce and Dorothy to be punished and suffer for their infidelity. They want to see them hurt in some manner, for various reasons, and they get angrier and angrier as the narrative doesn’t deliver them the “justice” they believe they are entitled to.
You may be one of these people! If you are, I would suggest looking inward about that. I don’t know that that suggestion will help, though, and you’ll probably get mad at me for saying it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I’m not trying to be mean, like, genuinely, but I’m not gonna pretend comments here exist in a vacuum each thread or that I’m an ingenue who doesn’t know how things here go literally all the time.
I’m sorry but what the **** is your problem with me, specifically, that you’d imply I’m THAT kind of twisted person? Based on what? My mild critique elsewhere of a story beat I don’t like?
Seriously, what are you alluding to with the “comments in a vacuum” thing? If you’re going to accuse me of some horrible opinions I don’t have, I’d prefer if you came out and said it directly.
What Li said (thank you Li), with the added context of I wasn’t trying to persecute you personally, dude, I was responding to the huffy offended “sorry for asking” by kind of verbally gesturing wildly to something that’s happening all over the comments of this strip in real-time, and like, I know the polite thing is to pretend this comment thread is the only one but I’m desperately uninterested in that.
I’m sorry, “you may be one of these people” is literally a sentence before the one you quoted. that goes a bit beyond “literally just an observation about that type of person”, I’d say. Maybe not accusation outright, but a really really weird assumption to make?
And hey, turns out the question made sense because it apparently was a reference to something specific, like some of the other poll options (notably “i hope jakey dies”. The others do sound more generic)! I sure didn’t know that, I thought it was a sort of exaggeration of the attitude Sajuuk-Khar mentions too.
Anyways there was literally no reason to be weirdly hostile since like 3 other commenters managed to express the same thing without doing that!
@perpetual summer: “you may be one of those people, in which case” is just acknowledging that Jon might agree with the people Sajuuk-Kur was talking about.
I do think the conversation would have gone a little smoother if not for that paragraph, but it’s still not an accusation. The word may means “might”. It’s not an assumption.
That feels manipulative. Saying very pointed and accusatory things but mitigating it with “might” and “maybe”s so that if the other person gets mad you can say “oh no I didnt mean you specifically. I don’t have a word for it but I’ve seen this kinda thing a few times in the comment section and I don’t like it. Broad generalizations into backpedal when people take personal offense.
I just don’t agree that it was a broad generalization of anyone except the people Sajuuk-Khar was actually talking about.
Those people, if NOT angry to be described that way, have an argument about being over-generalized.
But someone who’s not them at all just being like “I feel targeted by this statement that explicitly doesn’t describe me” is a separate issue. Possibly strawmanning, if you’re very sure you were being described, just wrongly?
Because they responded to them and even implied they fit that description. It doesn’t actually matter if iit doesn’t apply to them. The point is to imply it does. The point is to make you mad or feel lesser and then defend yourself with a “oh I didn’t mean YOU specifically. You just reminded me of some lesser filth so I decided to bring it up. Don’t take it so personally.”
I’m not saying this is even intentional but it drives me up the wall. It’s got the same stink of “Im just asking questions” all over it.
My quibble with this is SO technical and it’s not even my argument and I’ve already said I wouldn’t have included that last paragraph if it were me, I would’ve waited until Jon actually said he agreed with the hypothetical position — so it’s very silly of me to keep arguing.
I am sorry the comment section has been so exhausting for you in specific, too, and I don’t want to contribute to that.
I’m trying to concede the point and drop it! orz my impulse to explain everything I’m feeling and thinking sometimes gets in the way of apologizing and actually saying the thing I want to say.
Deliberate exaggeration, I’m pretty sure. People were demanding Joyce and Dorothy suffer consequences for their cheating, so when people complained about how simplistic the previous three-option poll about cheating was and David Willis made a more nuanced poll, they decided to add a more extreme response than “cheating is evil”.
I gotta admit I voted for that option but only because I thought it was a hilariously extreme overreaction/exaggeration and if it really is some sort of reference to a real guy who says that kind of stuff, I’m not with him! I just like memes and jokes!
It really does seem like a lot of you have forgotten how to read a comic. Like the last panel is a little OOC because it’s presented to tell a joke to get a laugh out of the reader? It seems like it might be cruel? I’m pretty sure that’s how the medium works?????????? Am I missing something here?
Webcomic, what do you mean, this is a portal into an alternate reality filled with real people doing real things.
There is no “medium”, there is no “genre”, there are no “story conventions,” this is a reality show in a different dimension that we are somehow watching and HOW DARE THESE PEOPLE BE TERRIBLE!
No, fair point, exaggeration for comedy is a common tactic.
You just can’t exaggerate the character past the point that the audience disbelieves that character would be that mean. Even with the allowance offered by comedy, you can’t stretch that character’s personality so far that it “breaks.”
I’ve never seen Joyce be this spiteful before, so it shocked me at first. It didn’t seem like the Joyce I’d read up till this point.
I have a better question, when did this go back into being a comedy?
We’ve been pretty much in drama mode since Joe and Dorothy talked about wanting to smooch Joyce. I don’t remember a funny gag for most of summer and NOW we’re gonna do the funny hah hahs?
It’s a pretty jarring tonal shift, especially since we’re probably running right into “your boss just fucking outed us on the cover of the paper” drama zone
That’s a totally valid opinion to have! I just think it’s taking it too far to say the last two months of strips have been drama (solidly), rather than dramedy which sometimes veers one way and sometimes the other.
Not everyone is going to react to comedy in the same way.
If you’re trying to be comically mean, some folks might just see it as mean. Speaking from experience here, this is a tightrope I have fallen off in the past
I get that Walky and Joyce aren’t exactly friendly in this iteration of their characters, and that this was supposed to be a break in the “drama”, but fuck me this Joyce turns into a dick at the drop of a hat. It’s just…mean. She gets called out for cheating by both Sarah and Joe, but brushes the situation off because there’s a photo of her cheating. She takes the time to force the break up of Dorothy and Walky to laugh in his face. What happened to the writing here? I’m genuinely a little lost.
As for Becky? I think I’m expecting her to look cross eyed at the two of them and go, “But I found a great gal to love, who loves me. Why would I have a fit about you kissing face? Are you suggesting I’d ditch Dina now that I know you’re into clams? What about Joe and Walky? Weren’t you still with them like before the protest? Do THEY know? What do you mean you left Joe on hold and threw it in Walky’s face? When did you become such an ass?!”
Despite my critically acclaimed Walky/Billie porn comic (that I will finish someday) I actually doubt it’ll ever happen. They’re too sibling coded to overcome that.
Just to note, in case it matters for you: apparently many people are fleeing Imgur due to mismanagement; https://imgpile.com/ and https://discuit.org/ are two places I know they’re fleeing to.
I’ve no connection with any of these (webcomic comment sections are the closest I get to using social media these days), but thought you might want to know of other places to put your pictures.
Although maybe you already knew anyway.
I’ve more or less stopped using imgur for major posts, but it’s still convenient for posting a quick image here and there. Quick read-through and yeah looks like the usual scummy company bullshit.
aah yes wh capitolist fallicy of the morder stock market, where boards and ceo and manager all have to live withn sword of damacles over their heads if they do not put profits above all else (any company traded on an American stock market has a fiduciary resposibilty to prioritize shareholder profit or face removal from their position, and poeple wonder why corperations produce shit products and services, cause if the don’t they lose thier jobs.)
I hope Joyce tackles Walky later and punches him in the head twelve times like Raja Jackson, just to give the comment section something to REALLY complain about. Everyone’s got their goddamn fainting powders out over a little petty maniacal laughter. Oh no. How gauche. She’s petty.
Let Joyce be petty! Let Joyce be mean! Let Joyce kill a cop and drive his patrol car off a pier to hide the evidence and then start a cult made up of communist clowns! Let’s get completely unhinged instead of everyone being “mature” and “reasonable” like a bunch of assholes in an 80s cartoon. Invite Becky, Dina, and a chicken into the polycule without telling anyone! Fuck it, invite Mary into the polycule without telling anyone! You can fix her, Joyce, it’s a 100% great idea with no downsides! You know what goes great with macaroni and cheese? Black Tar Heroin. Come on, Joyce. Let’s get completely 100% unhinged and commit every crime imaginable all at once and then kill the president to redeem yourself before driving a stolen car off the grand canyon and dying tragically but then revealing in the post-credits that you faked your death and moved to Hussy Island (which is technically a peninsula) with your harem of the entire cast of Dumbing of Age and also a few other webcomics without Willis getting permission from their creators. It’s your twenties, girl, live a little!
Or, like, talk everything out in a reasonable and mature fashion like an adult so that no one holds a grudge, I <i<guess, if you wanna be a <i<wuss about it. If you wanna be a wuss in front of that hot girl who’s watching.
Above statement is exaggerated for comedic effect. ESM Industries does not actually endorse giving Mary screen time. Terms and Conditions may apply. Offer not valid in the state of Indiana unless you’re cool. In the event of a fire please refrain from singing disco inferno as we do not have the rights to any of their their music
Extremely fair, white women do not get taken NEARLY as seriously as they should be in terms of their contribution to and upholding of white supremacy.
(Signed, a white afab)
(I still remember and cringe about the time I jumped because I had headphones in and this poor young Black guy was all gentle laughter and apologizing for scaring me and I really was scared so it took me a moment to yell back “Sorry!” but like, that was ABSOLUTELY a micro aggression, and worse that he knew, deep in his soul, that he had to be so over the top kind to me about it. You know? Fuck white supremacy so much. Fuck my fellow Karens who know and weaponize their very specific power as white women against Black men.)
inb4 someone tries to tell me “but you really were scared” BAD PHRASING. I was very startled and my heart rate was still elevated for a moment, I was not actually scared and he was not actually scary!! All he did was pass me on the sidewalk not knowing I had earbuds in.
Growing up I’ve always kinda been. Overly polite and thoughtful when engaging with strangers and even though I enjoy being polite and I like to be helpful part of it is just because I don’t want people to find me mean scary or threatening. I often speak in a high timbre and with a certain sweetness cuz I think I subconsciously wanna evoke the idea that I’m one of the good ones. Which is a pretty sad thing to notice about yourself.
1.Joyce outed own girlfriend
2. nobody cares about Walky again
3. Just because it was open secret dont change girlfriend stealer status
4. at least Walky dont end strip with Glazed eyes
Some of us grasp the concept of fiction, i.e. that these are not real people experiencing real events, and the subversion of expectations, particularly in an abrupt and shocking way, can be humorous
It can also be slop. Joyce being a jerk for stupid, petty reasons while she is apparently in Dramatic Crisis Mode isn’t funny. Walky being stepped on *again* isn’t really funny.
Oh no, he was snarky to Joyce because he clocked she wanted to play rock paper scissors with his GF, who didn’t shut it down because she also wanted it. He deserves to be shit on and laughed at when he had just gotten back with her after *Dorothy* wanted him back.
tbh I just can’t take it that seriously when this is very obviously just here for laughs. Like yeah if it comes up later in a more solemn context, maybe, but to me this is getting mad at Jerry for getting Tom to walk on a rake or something
I mean yeah? The storyline has been fairly serious and somber for a bit. A sudden bit of emotional slapstick is jarringly incongruous. This is a form of humor.
There are tons of people not okay with this. Stop pretending that’s a minority opinion when the comments have been 50% people complaining about every action Joyce and Dorothy have taken.
When we watch a horror movie, are we supposed to be aghast… at the writer? ‘I can’t believe they made Jason kill those kids, they did nothing but smooch in the woods!’
This isn’t what you think it is – what you are experiencing is that we are relating to this story and it’s characters in a different way than we are. These aren’t real people whose behaviors we are judging. There are no people here, nobody is getting hurt here, nobody CAN be hurt, except us, the audience. We invest it with our imagination and our suspension of disbelief to make it feel more real to us, but this is a story, and we are interacting with it on the level of “is this story entertaining, is it interesting, is it saying something that connects with me on any level.”
To me, all the conversations about “you’re okay with bad behavior” and etc come off exactly like people having power scaling arguments about superheroes, and who could beat who, who’s better than who, etc. It’s engaging with a story in a way that seems utterly alien to me.
I know I’m one of the few people that has always hated Walky (though I like him more in this incarnation than any other), so this delights me extremely.
Apparently I’m clearly in the “it’s a comic strip” crowd of the poll (though I didn’t vote), because unlike everyone who’s busy having a hissy fit one way or another, I’m just delighted by how this parallels the gender studies class where people had to pretend to be married, and wondering if Willis already had this pairing this firmly in mind at the time or not.
Obviously, if things follow, Joe and Walky are about to hook up. The only question is whether they’ll let Amber watch.
I’ve read It’s Walky, I know about their Prime Universe versions. I meant in this setting, they’re still a fun, petty and childish duo. There’s some volatile chemistry that’s fun to watch.
Nah, this is the girl who spent an entire summer hoping Danny would just miraculously disappear so she wouldn’t have to break up with him, and the guy who’s hosting a TVTropes mirror in his brain. She’s been hemming and hawing around it for the last ten minutes, and he clocked what she was here for nine minutes and fifty seconds ago, but has been avoiding just cutting to the chase on the off chance he was wrong.
I think we’re all forgetting the real victim here: Ruth, who has now thrice been denied the privilege of delivering breakup news to Dorothy’s boyfriend.
Joe wants to stay with joyce while she is with dorothy
So they just, get their cake and eat it too?
Their boyfriends are both just, whatever about this?
Walky just turned went “oh okay”
Like im sorry, I know it’s a gag, and it’s funny but
This annoys me, it annoys me that the boyfriends almost don’t seem to care.
Call me a relationship paladin all you want but its too neat, too easy.
I know there’s prolly gonna be drama with becky.
Or she’ll also just be fine with it and there wint be any issue with her.
I dunno it all leaves a bad taste, because it’ just is. Joyce can have her cake and eat it too, instead kf having to actually have a hard conversation with Joe and instead he’s just “nah im cool with it”
A: Willis is a fine writer, I dont doubt things will shake out less simple than the first abbear
B: Joe is succinctly in love and experienced and Walky generally uncaring enough for both to just wait and see – how the college gay adventure of two girls finding their own feet will turn out.
Risking a collective stoning : those relationships are not neccessarily set in stone. And I´m aware thats a painful coming-out trope for young sappic ladies, but its also a trope for a reason.
Kids do experiment.
I’m at this point as well. Currently. I’m sure things will change. Problems will arise, and some of them will probably stem from these moments that currently just feel like “whelp, that’s how it is.”
But right now, for several strips, Joe and Walky have both essentially relegated themselves to accessories. Joe proposing poly doesn’t both me; it bothers me that the only time he got to express a modicum of annoyance at Joyce cheating was immediately superceded by Joyce being worried about the cover [which I understand, but still ended that scene just as Joe got to point out the “cheating” part as Joyce tried to claim some sort of “I’m not a hussy” high ground]. Now we see a fraction of Dorothy’s conversation with Walky, and it’s 90% Joyce being mean to Walky and a tiny percent of Walky just going “oh well, I should have known.”
I tried to give Joyce a charitable read in the last few strips, because breaking up with Joe was going to be tough for her. I thought that she might have started to realize that, oh, she did a shitty thing. A series of shitty things, actually. After justifying herself to Sarah, she would finally realize that it wasn’t just a sad mistake that lost her Joe, it hurt Joe and Walky, and others. But she had one panel of that, and Joe immediately told her she didn’t have to feel bad. No, no, HE knew all along, so it’s fine, she should have what she wants! Even if she didn’t know he was ok with! And now Walky doesn’t even get that much.
It’s not just annoying because “But All Relationships Must Be Pure or Have Heartbreaking Drama!!!!” It’s anticlimactic, and even if it loops around later to bite Joyce or Dorothy in the ass, right now I’m personally sick of the “Ah, we knew all along!” reasoning without any anger that it was still a crappy thing to do, to let Joyce and Dorothy off the hook, from BOTH guys. One, ok, people react to things differently. Both? It feels like such an empty reaction, especially since Joe was left and Walky got one sentence in his own breakup so Joyce had more room to mock him and drag Dorothy on to other things. Also Joyce taking over Dorothy’s breakup, that Dorothy had her own plan for, feels rude to Dorothy and Walky. It’s not actually all about you, Joyce, despite what Joe is willing to put up with.
Literally everyone except the two of them saw this coming from months off. Anyone in their friendgroup wiling to date one of them is definitionally chill with it.
Yeah thd whole paladin thing was one side going “cheating is wrong” and another side going “nah its fine its a comic and it will be worth it for the messy breakup drama”
But if the boyfriends just go “nah its cool” then there’s no messy breakup drama
I understand Willis wanting to do a cheating arc, it just feels like we’re not getting any of the stuff that would usually go with it, so it feels anticlimactic and odd so far. It doesn’t feel fully committed
I was expecting something a bit more serious for Dorothy and Walky breaking up (again) but considering the drama-filled pages we’ve been having for the last few days, I suppose a palette cleanser was necessary.
Now that Joe isn’t gonna be a category 5 meltdown, Walky’s kinda been a punching bag in the latest storylines. Joyce takes his Webcomic spot that he really wanted, Lucy dumps him cuz he didn’t stand up for her enough to his raging mother, and now he gets cheated on and Joyce brags about it. Can’t wait to see what the next ill to befall Walky will be.
fuck, I forgot about his issues with Math class, yeah he’s gonna get in trouble and Lucy nor Dorothy will be there to help him and Raidah will do something evil probably.
Soon, as Walky’s spacing in the cast pages shrinks further and further, he will be ousted from the character line up entirely and his removal from the plot will be complete.
I mean, Joyce really wanted the comic spot as well. And she did a lot more work to obtain it, as well as being willing to fill out the necessary paperwork.
I just don’t think that’s something that was “taken” from him as much as it was something he “lost” by expecting it to be handed to him.
But Walky saw it first, so it was his and Joyce stole it. Because jobs at a college newspaper work on the same principle as six year olds finding a cool rock, right? /s
Walky literally asked Joyce for paper to draw his comic on for the contest and she decided to also apply because he did, then she refused to share the spot with him when he was ok with sharing it with her. She evidently exists to take things from Walky as the above strip shows.
Look I wasn’t gonna be the one to point out that in my observation people are being way more forgiving of Joyce than Walky in this comment section wrt their conflicts with each other, and why people might be doing that… but…
Man it’s been A WHILE since we’ve had a comic where people like, demonstrated their inability to understand tone in a piece of fiction, It’s honestly pretty quant.
Usually the perspective of “Doesn’t understand that if a strip is lighthearted and nobody in it meaningfully gets upset, it should be taken less seriously than ones where people act realistically” is reserved for Becky strips exclusivley!
I kinda don’t know what you’re talking about because this happens pretty much every other strip. Like it’s probably not always a focus of discussion but every strip with an exaggerated punchline gets this. What’s quaint to me is people bringing up that that’s strange
I said it before upthread but “it’s a joke strip” doesn’t mean the characters can do literally whatever. This isn’t an absurdist comic, it’s a mostly grounded one (character wise at least).
Regardless of it being a joke, it was still too mean for Joyce. At least to me. I struggle to see Joyce being this spiteful, even in context of a joke.
Part of it is that some of us don’t like the ending of Dorothy and Walky’s relationship being treated less realistically. This isn’t just a one-off mean joke unrelated to the drama, it’s a part of the drama and that’s being cut off and treated as a joke.
Right? Like ostensibly this is the coda of one of the strip’s founding relationships. Shouldn’t it get a few strips to really let it breathe before Joyce pulls Dorothy along?
if there wasnt a possibiility of voilence being caused by them cheating in public sure, and we still could see a dorothy going to walky later to try to apologize and offer explainthings.
I’m not sure how likely I think it is because Dorothy is definitely more conflict-avoidant than Joyce, but I hope for it. I would also definitely be disappointed if this is the sum total of Walky’s reaction.
An equally interesting observation is the equal uptick in smug condescending posts by people. The reason people don’t like thing must be because their brains are too tiny and not just that they don’t find this funny or good for the overall narrative.
The punchline is Joyce is being cruel to Walky who is weirdly indifferent about being jerked around yet again, sandwiched in between yesterday’s, “oh no something dreadfully serious is happening that I have to immediately leave this heartfelt conversation, with no explanation” and the forthcoming “something important, we’ve got to run” strip.
Normally happily in the sicko camp but I legitimately don’t know how to feel about this one.
Walky’s been kind of forgotten about as the fourth party in this storyline in favour of Joe’s reaction to what’s been going on. I kind of guessed that Joe was going to be okay with things while Walky would be the one to take it badly. In a way i guess Walky taking it badly compared to Joe would have been the obvious twist, but at the same time, it would be handled in that usual way Walky takes things (glib remarks, followed by self-destruction).
I guess that’s probably how things are going to go, but this does seem a little cruel on Joyce’s part. I get it as a punchline and all. I guess i was expecting something else from all the ‘not including Walky in things’ angle that was going on.
I do actually honestly feel bad for Walky in all of this. He’s essentially been dumped, like, I think 5+ times now? (And twice by two different women as well!)
I mean, there are people who deserve it, Walky meanwhile never did anything to warrant this treatment. Except for being Walky and, the greatest of sins, dating Dotty.
I guess I wasn’t clear with the first post. What I wanted to say was “Joyce can be a real asshole to people she dislikes that have done nothing to her when she is in her selfish mode.” kind of like not giving a damn about Jacob or Raidah’s feelings when trying to break them up and grab Jacob for herself because she felt entitled to him.
did not mean to imply your use of them by omission, simply to state my position that is it a trait that i dislike and think we are better humans by fighting the acceptance of such traits. i try not to be an asshole to any one regardless of if i like them or despise them, and i fail all the time much to my personal horror. and i do not deny as much as i love clarity, my typing skill are abismal and can cause a lot of issues, and for that i do apologize. unfortunatley my history with using the written word is far more adversarial than i’d like, but i wouldrater try to say peice as poorly as i do than take the 5 hours it does for me to type a paragraph without mistakes (my penmansship is also terrible and i hate writing by had as well)
Pride cometh before the fall. Well, assuming a fall ever comes I guess. Im in the sickos camp as others have said, now I need the sickos flip
Iunno, maybe that isn’t gonna happen with this part of the story line and we’ll see more heat from Amazi girl, the general protest, and maybe backlash to the newspaper making this the main thing.
Also, editing that one panel to focus more on the absurdity of them making out at the protest doesn’t make it not gonna tasteless.
I wonder if part of this crashing and burning will lead to either friends falling back or opening them up to no longer being on campus? Dorothy is in a spiral and Joyce doesn’t have much going on with her education, maybe they have to take a semester off while they navigate this relationship and the outside world some more. Who knows.
I am once again reminding the comments section that Joyce has the emotional maturity of a sheltered teenager, on account of being a sheltered teenager.
Also this is a narrative that’s being told here, you’re gonna want to wait for more than one or two strips before you decide what’s going on inside the characters’ heads.
Except apparently it wasn’t “supposed to be a fairly emotional “Dorothy broke Walky’s heart *again*” scene.”
And I think that’s what a lot of people are reacting too, even if they’re focusing on Joyce being mean.
This is more directed at the people looking at a bewildered and silent Walky for a single strip and two strips of Joe “I have relationship issues” Rosenthal and saying “they’re clearly fine with the cheating!”
Hell, we don’t even know that Dorothy is amenable to sharing Joyce with Joe, considering she doesn’t much care for Joe, and people are already writing poly vows for three. (Also is it just me or is it weird that all of the poly pitches from the comments don’t really include Walky?)
What I’m saying is, people are counting their chickens before the eggs are even laid here.
Both the strip, and also how there’s a contingent I’m the comments that’s just like…. it’s impossible for this comic to be bad, so therefore everything that happens is good! Very Annie-the-Script-Supervisor vibe from Community.
(Despite being meh on the strip these days, I like that I know most of you will get that reference)
I just dislike the implications that if this strip didn’t work for you, then obviously you just Don’t Get How Jokes Work, and you deserve to be condescended to.
I mean I don’t love the implication in the comment you’re replying to that if you found this funny, you must be incapable of ever “admitting” when the writing is bad.
Yeah it’s been pretty savage. We all want to be heard, we all want to voice our frustration or joy, our grievances or optimism. A number of people all from different walks of life and experiences who feel represented by fictional characters.
Oh I don’t mind if the joke didn’t hit for you personally, it’s the people that seem not to understand that it IS a joke that are doing my head in. Do you also take it with deadly seriousness when the roadrunner tricks Wile E. Coyote into running off a cliff
Mixing comedy and serious is an art. You can’t have weeks of everyone being “oh no this is a betrayal, what shall we do,” and then have one of those conversations by someone going full Looney Tunes and then going “suck it I win.”
I mean, you CAN, but its massive tonal whiplash, and not in an enjoyable way? It just makes me go “ok then, I guess it’s stupid to care about anything in this story.”
It’s been a feature of this comment section for months now that the worst examples of whatever “side” happens to be “winning” are just gloating assholes about it.
Ok, now Walky has to be in the polycule. It’s too funny for it to not happen. Just think of the Joyce reaction. And I want to see Joe stumble through trying to explain to Danny and Sal that he’s maybe, kinda, sorta in a relationship with Walky. Specifically, I want that.
People really just don’t remember how Walky has been picking on Joyce the entire run of the comic, and mocking her for being “secretly gay” for Dorothy even when it made her uncomfortable, huh?
Like Joyce’s actions could be viewed as mean, but it’s not wholly unwarranted like some people seem to think it is.
You can only prophesize so much before Apollo thinks you make a good Dodgeball Target.
And her laugh? That’s the dodgeball hitting him in the face.
Yeah. I think that’s getting ignored in the fuss over “But it’s fine for Joyce to mock Walky because he’s been picking on her”. Dorothy should not be okay with Joyce treating her (ex?)boyfriend like this. Dorothy does actually like Walky, even if she absolutely was going to dump him for Joyce. She didn’t want to be cruel about it.
Its not the cheating. I can handle characters being less perfect.
It’s not even Joyce being an absolute asshole about it. While yes Joyce expressing any guilt when Joe wasn’t in front of her would’ve done a lot to ease the annoyance at her, seeing someone being an asshole and then falling on their face can be funny.
Its the fact that Joyce been an absolute asshole about it and gets rewarded for it.
This entire thing to summerize is: “i love my boyfriend :). Oh no i masterbated near my friend before we were even dating i hope you don’t get mad :(.Oh you’re not not mad 🙂 <3. Oops kissed the bestie. Lol guess i don't need birth control anymore. Gonna dump Joe. Oh no hes here, he'll be sad. Wait hes not in front of me anymore so i don't even care anymore. Time to cuddle with my new girl under a blanket my boyfriend literally gave me. Oh why is my sister from another sister being so mean i just cheated on my boyfriend. Not like it was anything major. Besides it was for my girl <3.
And no I don't care if Becky will be the mad one. Becky isn't in a relationship with Joyce and was never entitled to one. Unless Becky ends sharing the voice of reason with Sarah in this story Iine and harpoons Joyce for cheating then Becky's reaction just doesn't matter to me.
Joyce always tries to be kind when she is on level waters, but this is definitely not one of her better moments. And thus begins the Nightguy villain arc!
Going to say, this to me seems like pretty clear evidence that Joe should dump the hell out of Joyce.
She is faced with a problem, and she doesn’t talk to Joe at all about it. Instead she drops him mid conversation to go grab Dorothy. The Joyce/Joe relationship is fundamentally one sided, and Joe deserves better.
She goes grab Dorothy because this is a pretty important thing yhat concerns her and she explicitly promised Joe they continue the conversation after it.
I think I’m gonna reserve judgement until we have some kind of confirmation as to exactly WHAT Joyce is sprinting around with the newspaper about, although I admit I have a hard time figuring out what might involve Dorothy but not Joe if Joyce is really expecting to have a relationship with both of them — we’ve seen Joe be friendly with Becky, for example, and there’s nothing particularly inherent about the potential conflict with Joyce’s family that’d involve Dorothy but not Joe.
She’s realised Becky, who if you’ll recall had a giant crush on her, will see her kissing another woman on the front page of the newspaper. She’s worried that will break Becky’s heart, and she doesn’t want that to be how she finds out. This is why her face fell after saying “everyone’s gonna see this” and right before running off.
(She’s also not running around with the newspaper.)
And it is absolutely more important to soothe Becky’s feelings over a crush than for Dorothy to talk to her actual boyfriend who she just cheated on and thus probably needs to break up with.
I mean it tracks. Joyce probably only went to talk to Joe first because she’s more scared of telling Becky, but it’s still lousy.
Because she doesn’t know about the newspaper she has to go help Joyce with Becky rather than talk to her actual boyfriend that she just cheated on? Becky is more urgent than the person directly affected?
Not gonna lie, as much as I’d like the “consequences for cheating” be more than 5 seconds of Sarah that they promptly ignored, if we spend 5 strips on Joe leading nowhere plus one on Walky for… whatever the fuck THIS is, and then spend like 10 or 20 on “Becky is sad uwu” when Becky wasn’t even in these goddamn relationships to begin with, I’m going to eyeroll so hard I’ll have to go fetch my eyeballs from under the desk after they unscrew out of the sockets and roll under there.
Dorothy IS directly affected with her being on the newspaper! Ot is a photo of her kissing a girl during a protest. It is outing her snd might land her legal troubles that is why is actually pretty important that she know this.
I mean, as someone who is currently married to a trans person, “My romantic partner got outed” is absolutely something that I care a hell of a lot about, and something they’d have me help with dealing with the fallout of.
Which is to say, what you’re saying is absolutely fair but doesn’t bode well for the poly stocks if that’s what’s happening in Joyce’s head.
(various disclaimers:
– Yes, Joe and Joyce’s relationship isn’t very old.
– We don’t actually know why Joyce is concerned: being outed as bi, in general? Being outed to her parents, and the risks thereof? Jocelyn being outed? Becky’s reaction? Something else? People have expressed basically all of these as possibilities)
Yeah, my thought is that Joyce KNOWS he’s about the kindest guy he can be to her at this point including the conversation that just happened, and I suspect HE wouldn’t find it considerate to leave him out of helping her.
It’s fine to be ok with this because it’s clearly meant to be a joke, and it’s also ok to dislike it because it’s exceptionally mean-spirited and reflects poorly on Joyce as a character. There, comment section disarmed.
Okay, the entire comic series’ climax is done. DoA to wrap up now. Stay tuned for Willis’s next comic series: Weren’t We S’posed To Be Smarter In Middle Age?
It’s why commenting here has become such a chore. Most of us are jerks who cant craft arguments without trying to insult to opposing party. Unfortunately thats just the sorta community this comic (and the internet at large) has started to cultivate.
yeah like, from the televised product which calls itself national “”debate”” to the shitshows on Twitter, it seems that the role of Discussion *itself* as a cooperative effort to reconcile points and arrive at the truth has unfortunately just about entirely become a foreign concept to a lot of people (at least in the United States as far as I can tell)
instead, without knowing or willing it they submit to unspoken rules such that Discussion is effectively a competition about being better than other people
Reflecting(/Introspecting) further on this, I find I’ve learned more about my own thought processes–specifically, that when two individuals are in a rival (here serious-rival rather than friendly rival in the one direction or hostile-rival in the other direction?) relationship, “anything (below that threshold) goes”.
This could also be extended to the hostile-rival extreme (for instance blood feuds) of it being more surprising/questionable if two rivals /don’t/ try to kill each other.
To rephrase, there are actions which would be disapproval-worthy stabbing in the back for a sincere friend and “You got me! But I’ll be sure to get the upper-hand next time” for an above-board rival.
Mike comes to mind, except that Mike was an omnidirectional unwelcome [negative term], whereas this is a fairly-comfortable mutual (rival) relationship. (A Homestuck datum also comes to mind…)
Getting back to the strip, I find myself craving links of all Walky’s thoughts/words/etc. in the past which support his “Guess I always sorta knew that’d happen eventually.” now. I feel that there must have been many (or at least some), and this would be an excellent time to reread them, but I can’t remember them any more. Alas!
On one hand, Joyce cutting through the entire discussion like a knife is just about peak “Joyce and Dorothy”, and a seemingly-rare instance of Joyce pushing Dorothy through something challenging, to boot.
Nor is Joyce being a dick to Walky particularly unprecedented or undeserved.
On the other hand, I’m not just getting TONE whiplash from the return of the stinger joke, I’m kinda getting pacing whiplash from more or less this whole storyline. I expect that’s an artifact of both “DoJo kinda jumped forward in time” and “rewrites due to protest discourse”.
Yeah, I’m also experiencing tone and pacing whiplash. This page is funny on its own, floating in a void, but within the current story it felt like hitting a brick wall at 100mph. I’m willing to wait and see where it goes, and hope that this is just more satisfaction delayed, but I’d really like to see an actual conversation about this get to happen.
Yeah.
I think we could have had a bit of actual Dorothy and Walky discussion followed by Joyce breaking in to do basically this and I’d be happier and the joke would land just about the same.
For all that our new lovers are full of new relationship energy and no one’s really surprised, this isn’t going well for them. Sarah was pissed. Joe was left hanging. Walky was discarded. They’re burning a lot of bridges all at once. Not smart. Not caring. Lots of mess still to come.
The first is that a reader is 100% on Joyce’s side. It is an unalloyed good that Joyce establishes her dominance- that now Joyce gets to smooch Dorothy, Walky doesn’t, and his pain at no longer getting to do so is delicious.
The second is that Joyce doing this is ludicrous and out of character. That her behavior is so aberrant, so ludicrous, that it is obvious hyperbole and exaggeration of her dislike of Walky and possessiveness towards Dorothy.
The third is that Joyce is being a complete asshole and is being set up to be punished for her hubris, and the comedy comes from the satisfaction of knowing that she’s going to experience problems as a direct result of her assumptions here.
I *aggressively* don’t give a shit about Walky. How he feels about these developments is not something I care about. You’d think I might be in category 1 because of that. I’m not. I don’t actually think this is that funny.
I’m not in category 1 because even though I don’t care how Walky feels, I don’t think Joyce being a jerk to him is fun. Joyce is not Mike, she’s not in the story to be mean to characters.
I’m not in category 2 because I don’t actually think this is that out of character, at least recently. Ever since she started to actively flirt with Dorothy, Joyce has had absolutely no brakes. She didn’t connect that her long, loving look into Dotty’s eyes followed by running off with Joe would cause Dotty problems. She didn’t think about whether or not smooching in the middle of a protest was a good idea. She didn’t think about how getting together with Dorothy would affect Joe, Walky, Becky, or anyone else. She didn’t even think about how suddenly smooching a girl means a dramatic realignment of her sense of self, from “ally” to “actively queer”. And here she’s not braking her desire to rub it in Walky’s face with any sort of empathy.
So that leaves category 3. The thing is, every time in the past few months that we’ve thought something might be a problem for Joyce and Dorothy’s relationship, it’s been shunted aside. Amazi-girl saw to it that they weren’t arrested. Neither of them have any sort of reservations about suddenly being bi and getting together with their best friend. Sarah’s critique went in one ear and out the other. And both boyfriends are not being obstacles in any way. I’m not actually convinced that this behavior is something that’s going to come back to bite Joyce at all. The only remaining person who might be justifiably hurt by this is Becky, and there is plenty of evidence that she’s going to be just as OK with it as Joe. All the other potential problems are ones that aren’t the result of Joyce’s thoughtlessness but about the unwillingness of family/society to accept their relationship.
So while it’s certainly not the worst thing in the world, I don’t actually find this strip funny. It’s just Joyce being pointlessly mean and I’m not expecting any consequences from that.
I’m in “angle 4” because this strip is a Looney Tunes gag.
Gravity seems to have, for Joyce only, turned itself almost 90 degrees, so that she leaps into frame without being supported by anything below, wraps her arms around Dorothy, and yanks her as unceremoneously off screen as if by a giant stage hook. You can see that in panel 3, Dorothy’s being pulled faster than gravity would allow her to fall. Then she pops up, two frames later, AGAIN suspended in midair, to gloat.
If you told me that gravity HAD turned 90 degrees for Joyce only, and she had positioned a giant trampoline in the hallway on the wall directly across from Walky’s room, and was bouncing on said trampoline in order to get into Walky’s room, I’d say, “Ah, yes, that actually makes sense.”
Neighbor, I’m not saying it’s a problem if you think this is the funniest comic in history. But if you do, can you honestly say that your reason isn’t one of the 4 listed (Borkx3 legit made me laugh with their reason) before you accuse me of making something up?
Yes, because i don’t a reason to find it funny i just do. Like i do with a lot of things. It’s a funny scene and fell yhe intended way it was written for, it’s literally not more deeper than that
2) I didn’t accept your answer because it wasn’t an answer, it was a tautology. Humor being subjective doesn’t mean you can’t explain it. I offered my attempt at explaining it, you have essentially gone “nu-uh!”.
In other words, I’m inviting you to put your money where your mouth is. You say that I’m incorrect when I say why people find this strip funny? Prove it. Tell me why you find this strip funny and why it’s different from the reasons I articulated.
I don’t like it being called that by someone i dislike especially if i fell they are being condescending about it.
And i already told you what i think, there is literally nothing else on it for me to tell you.
This is a little broad and lofty, isn’t it? It not only creates a “we” category with implications of togetherness, it also invents an obligation of diligence (“should be able to”) and implicitly diminishes those who don’t follow the expected behavior (“articulate *why* something is funny”) by treating them as willful participants in “we” and its implied obligations, who are now perceived as misbehaving.
Big “We are all gathered here today to bear witness” energy in the chat right now.
This isn’t a court of law. Fuck evidence, fuck credence, and fuck backing up assertions, they’re not a requirement. People don’t have to justify their amusement to you like they’re defending themselves in a courtroom.
So that’s a no? You can’t explain why you think it’s funny without admitting that I got it right?
I’m not “the high arbiter of comedy”, I’m engaging in media literacy and criticism because I’m in a meeting that I’ve been in 4 times before and I’m bored out of my skull.
You already decided that you are right so whatever i respond wouldn’t really matter. I just you are being pretentious in thinking you can be so sure about why people fond something funny and some of your acertations fell a lot like projections.
Neighbor, if you have a different reason why you think this strip is funny, please, for the love of Batman, tell me. I’d be happy to listen.
But I didn’t pull those 3 modes out of my ass, I used 30+ years of consuming comedy and years of reading this particular comic as a basis.
We’ve seen examples of #1 with, just off the top of my head, literally any time anyone interacts with Mary. #2 has been the source of most of the humor Joyce gives us throughout the strip: her anxiety and naivete causes her to wildly overcompensate for comedic effect. #3 is just a classic of comedy. You see it in this comic with characters like Jennifer in particular, but outside of it I could point to how Team Four Star wrote Vegeta in DBZA as well as the entire character of George Costanza.
I presume when they said “Yes, because i don’t a reason to find it funny i just do. Like i do with a lot of things. It’s a funny scene and fell yhe intended way it was written for, it’s literally not more deeper than that”, which I’m interpreting as “It’s funny because it’s funny”.
First layer: contrast between the seriousness of the Joe/Joyce conversation and this loony toons treatment
Second layer: Joyce/Joe has been treated as narratively more serious than Dorothy/Walky v2 (which has been going on for about a week), so the assumption that it would/should be treated with the same seriousness is kind of funny.
Third layer: Joyce is being mean here in a way that is a hyper-exaggeration of her and Walky’s usual dynamic related to this relationship dynamic. It’s a call-back joke
Fourth layer: Pathos! While normally it would be easy to be like “ah Walky shrugging it off as a joke as usual” the punctuation of the “Haha” panel forces the reader to re-engage with Walky’s interior emotions… emotions that it would be out-of-character for him to immediately visibly display!
I could go on, but this is my five minute first thoughts.
This is mean, but I don’t care, because petty Joyce is hilarious. Also, it’s not like Walky hasn’t been asking for this by mocking Joyce about her feelings for Dorothy since about the second week of school. The most surprising thing is that Joyce apparently reads Walky’s comic.
A crucial difference between Walky and Joe is that! They both figured out (because you could see it from space) that Joyce and Dorothy had feelings for each other. Joe talked with Dorothy about that reality and made space for it. Walky mocked Joyce for it.
Still kinda harsh but in context it is understandable.
Ding ding ding ding ding! This is exactly it! Joe and Walky had separate set up and payoffs, both of which have been set up and executed well(I think). I don’t normally wade into the comments section, but there’s a stunning amount of bad faith criticism from about a quarter of the commenters here.
Once again, not saying I “called it” because this is one of like 18 things I predicted and you only get to be smug if you had ONE, but I did realize like a month ago, and comment to the effect that, chaos gremlins hoping specifically for Messy Breakups might be disappointed SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE as Willis has occasionally demonstrated, they’re really very vanilla.
They have been saying they blew up their comic strip and that they wanted to show messy breakups and cheating, and at some point I took a step back and went, “Uh-oh. What if their version of that is STILL gonna be like Joyce and Jacob’s cheating, where some of us were left going, ‘That’s it? I mean… technically…'”
Genuine sympathy to everyone who was hoping for something more explosive.
MIND YOU, I still think the jury is out on how okay Joe actually is, and I still don’t think this is the sum total of Walky’s reaction — I think he might be repressing heavily and that we might be about to see him on his own downward, karaoke-singing spiral. And, of course, if The Gang Attempts a Polyamory, more mess will be incoming.
But in terms of messy breakups, I think this might be it.
If I’m right, I think it’s sweet if this by you is messy breakup drama. Genuinely!! I think it’s at least a LITTLE bit on those of us who are familiar with your other thoughts on relationships and stuff for not taking that into account when we got our hopes up (and that’s me included!).
Like, when evaluating any promise made by an author, we should all remember the source, and that words might mean different things to the person speaking.
I feel kind of the same way I did when someone showed me the Futurama episode with Fry’s dog. Because I knew it had a massive reputation as THE saddest thing ever, I spent the whole thing braced for it to get worse and worse and worse; the whole time, conjuring this Spectre in my mind, GUESSING at future plot developments, prepared to sob: and then the episode ended, and I didn’t cry.
I cry really easily, especially when unmedicated. But I had built it up so much in my head that I wound up almost disappointed at the end. What was I even expecting that could have been worse than the actual end? I don’t know! But I definitely wound up with unmet expectations of some sort, more confused than emotionally wrecked, and it had nothing to do with the episode itself.
I personally feel silly for not clocking this possibility earlier than I did, because I have a LOT of high octane gremlin predictions from before it occurred to me and I’m a little embarrassed of them. But I am not trying to say anyone else should feel embarrassed.
I’m actually wracking my brain now because I KNOW Willis brought up a specific example of a thing years and years ago, where readers had expected much more than they got, but I’m NOT actually sure it as Jacob and Joyce cheating…
Bleh.
Anyway, sorry for implying it was unreasonable to be disappointed. What I meant was more like “20/20 hindsight, now it’s obvious that we should have known ‘messy breakups’ wouldn’t be that messy.”
I will also eat crow tomorrow if the comic takes a turn that forecasts Actually, Much More Mess.
Why is everyone taking this so well!? I’m hoping Becky has a scandalized response so I can work through these feelings!
Also, the inclusion of Dorothy makes me think she’s going to try to snatch up all the newspapers on campus before others can see them as opposed to directly confronting this. I foresee a wide shot with students all reading the paper while walking in the quad dashing her plans though.
Semi-amusing thing here is that neither Joyce nor Dorothy actually had to confess to their boyfriends. Joyce was preempted by Joe having seen the newspaper and Dorothy by Joyce bursting in.
They both went to do it but neither actually had to get the words out.
It’s a difficult balance to strike between taking the subject matter seriously and allowing for moments of levity to break up the tension, and while Willis is often very good at that, this storyline in particular has felt sloppier than their best.
I don’t like leaving negative comments, because I know they suck to read. But I think this comic has tone problems. It’s kind of the style of comic Willis is probably going for, since they’ve always kind of had this “problem” in their other works, but what I’m saying is there’s a reason people get so tilted at DoA characters in particular. We give Joe a deep serious scene about his enormous baggage in this relationship, and then we do a joke about Walky clearly going through a similar breakdown.
Man, I don’t know how I’m supposed to feel. This scenario isn’t that funny, and these characters have tonal whiplash that makes Joe and Walky feel like non-characters. They have no agency or interests.
So, Willis seized on the Sickos vs. Paladins gag and ran with it to the point that it’s been an ongoing thing for over a month, with some commenters brandings themselves as “sickos” if they were in favor of the cheating story because they wanted all the drama. Now that we’re here, I gotta say… If you’re enjoying how Willis has chosen to write Joe and Walky responding to the news of Joyce and Dorothy cheating, you can turn in your sicko badge. This is the most toothless, consequence free cheating that I can recall seeing in fiction. Two of the main cast were cheated on, and one gently endorsed it with the request to consider poly, and the other shrugged it off. If Joyce and Dorothy had pulled back from the initial kiss and immediately gone to break up with their boyfriends, we’d still be right here.
Willis isn’t a sicko, they just wanted to speedrun to the part where they get to write Joyce and Dorothy in a relationship. This is just being a relationship paladin for a different ship! I was all ready to get down with the sickness and everything!
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I never picked up a badge from either table. I’m that one person who managed to slip into the venue by saying “Hey sorry, I’m back. Just needed to get something out of my car.” right as a large group of paying attendees had the door guy occupied. It helps that I managed to purchase and change into an appropriate, simple, and popular costume right away, and with so many other people wearing it, “Friendly, slightly awkward queer with long brown hair and a weird voice” hasn’t been a helpful distinguishing feature.
I admit all of this so casually now because it’s already the second half of the day and I managed to befriend the only pair of people who happened to see me infiltrate the event. I’ve been attending panels and perusing the merch tables with them all day.
Drama wasn’t the only thing I wanted. This is not the drama I wanted, although I’m still holding out for The Gang Attempts a Polycule going disastrously!
But also I got Canonically Bi Joyce and Dorothy, I got Joe Suggests a Polycule; it’s hard for me personally not to be more satisfied than I am disappointed.
Also I picked a side because I was opposed to the particular thread of Relationship Paladin that kept aggressively insisting that “if you’re not upset about fictional cheating, you must be okay with real-life cheating”. I took up arms against them, not “for” any specific other cause.
The secret is that the “Relationship Paladins” whose position was “man, that’s really a dick move to do to Joe/Walky” without any specific real-life implications attached kinda also disliked those guys.
Meanwhile, you and Astariel have defined out opposing “sicko” positions in consecutive comments.
Hey, I picked the sickos because I wanted to see Joyrothy smooching, and that’s it. I’m perfectly happy not to have to deal with big drama. More time for smooching. Honestly, wanting a lot of drama seems more like a paladin thing. ‘The cheating must be punished with consequences,’ and all that.
As someone who has read every single comic from the original Roomies, to It’s Walky, Joyce & Walky, & Shortpacked, this is such a moment. I obviously want the comic to still continue on for years, but in some ways, if it ended right now (with a wrap-up epilogue) that would also make a lot of sense. 😉 lolol
This is a joint effort for sure. If we weren’t all arguing with each other, it wouldn’t have near this many comments.
Also, plenty of the folks who are upset at this comic aren’t actually paladins. A certain segment of sickos is upset at the drama deflation, and even more just plain don’t like how Walky is being treated here.
I thought it was funny, but I absolutely understand people who don’t agree, and they’re not all relationship paladins by any stretch.
Like most binaries I’ve encountered, it only brings out the worst in people. Even the expressions of camaraderie are tainted, because at the end of the day they’re nothing more complex than “Haha, we’re not them, isn’t it great not to be them?”.
i think i will finish my morning of commenting here with this.
let us say both joyce and dorothy did spend the necessary time to confess their sins and discuss with their partners what comes next for them. they both end upp spending the next 45-60 minutes maturely dealing with the mess they have created. joyce mom sees the paper, she is confirmed still in the area, get together with her congregation to do something about it. and arrives on campus while the girls are doing the right thing, and harm is cause to someone because of it. maybe carol sees becky and dina walking holding hands and the congregation attacks them.
or maybe joyces dad sees it, tries to contact joyce, can’t and makes assumptions and initiates the process to withdraw his finacial support. maybe carol sees jocelin in the background and goes after her.
yet by acting immediatly upon seeing the picture she is able get things sorted, they are able to go to becky and deal with that fallout, maybe they notify jocylin so she can be prepared, maybe joyce calls her dad and is able to keep her funding.
if any of those events were to occur while they were being better people to their (ex)boyfriends, would that trauma not be even more severe than leaving their relationships in a messy state. like if joyce spending extra time with joe to discuss what they want going forward lead to her being unable to warn jocylin lead to harm to jocelyn would that not break her. i am not here to say she asnt caused harm to joe or walky here, but the order of magnitude compared to the potential harm that could result from this pic is far greater than hurt feelings in their relationships
If that is the concern there’s actually no reason to not involve Joe. Send out a text chain or something. If this is coming from a fear they’re gonna have a militia after them I wouldn’t be running off with just Dorothy. I would be letting every person explicitly know my status, wherabouts and perhaps warning anyone I know that’s personally connected. Walky was literally kidnapoed because of Becky’s dad. I feel like he deserves to know that his life is imminently in danger once again due to religious cult activity. I feel like there is no need to he secretive with everyone if this is her foremost concern.
yes but we are dealing with emotional hormaonal teenagers, anddorothy is the one she trusts most, so grabbing her and starting from there feels resonable to me. add dorothys untreated PTSD to the events of the lastfew strips and you get a recipe for poor decision making
I love using hypotheticals that writers have full control of as an excuse for remove any and all tension from any scene that could have it because no ones allowed to get upset at Joyce and Dorothy except for fucking Sarah I guess
I agree with many that Joyce us being a sub Saharan antelope with stripes. I would love to see more people besides Sarah calling them out fir this…I don’t know maybe Jennifer. That would be neat. Her lashing ot at Joyce for being a duck to Walky. “Only I and Sal can be mean to him.” Maybe Dotty can give Joyce some guff for that. Maybe Dorothy and Jennifer can team up and call out Daisy..along with other people who work on the paper. Maybe we can also check in on Asma. Is she okay? Also is Carla okay? She had a lot dumped on her.
wow she turned into an asshole
like this is just straight up malice, when was even the last time that Walky antagonized Joyce? and even in those interactions, was he ever as mean as this? he never laughed in her face when her relationships failed, even when he was right in predicting that she wouldn’t have a happy ending with a gay guy like Ethan
The very last strip they appeared in together, excluding that one trauma flashback Dorothy had. Joyce was trying to help him with math and he decided to chide her about her sheltered upbringing.
That conversation opened with Walky asking for help with math (apparently for the 5 billionth time) and got immediately derailed by Walky directing attention to the fact that Joyce doesn’t really know who Taylor Swift is. How is that in any way Joyce’s fault?
Something I don’t really “get” (even though I do) is the combination of criticism that Willis is just doing this for the Patreon dollars, as evidenced by an increase in subs, and also that Willis is just doing whatever he wants, as evidenced by the post that this happening now (instead of later) comes down to basically a whim while drawing.
And there’s a certain sentiment of ‘betraying the [rest of the] fanbase’ and ‘selling out’ behind these criticisms, but at the same time, like… Fuckin great? Imagine writing and drawing the thing you want to see in this world, that makes you personally happy, and getting paid more for doing so?? Is that not hashtag #goals???
(this is not related to anyone’s particular comments today, just a thought that’s been percolating from… *waves hand vaguely*)
Would get sue and got his narrative license revoke, got to move out of state to practice narrative because the system for punishing malpractice is kinda feeble.
A moment like this was inevitable, but what was not inevitable was having it happen in place of seeing Dorothy and Wally actually talk and getting Wally’s reaction to that conversation. That is a specific creative choice that is more than worthy of criticism.
It’s just not written well.
Willis is an excellent writer, but this isn’t their craft at its best.
There is a character that becomes evil at the end of Game of Thrones. The fan reaction to that would have been better, if it was well written and given more time to cook.
There are many ways to get to the same plot points
This is just turning Dumbing of Age into Star Wars. “oh, it’s so much better/makes so much more sense if you read the tie-in novels and watch the TV series that takes place between robble robble robble…”
It’s perfectly clear to me: a work of published, public art stands or falls on its own merits for most readers. You linking to Willis’ tumbler is basically the same as Star Wars dorks dragging in outside works or context or authorial intent rather than just reading the comic as it stands.
I see what you mean, Z. That’s probably a pretty good rule of thumb. Supplementary material should enhance your enjoyment of the main event, but as a wise man said “you don’t hand the audience a fucking glossary as they walk into the theatre.”
wait people actually find this funny? this just leaves me feeling cold in the stomach. I cannot fathom laughing at this unless you already hate Walky and/or considered him merely an obstacle, because yikes.
a situation like this might be funny if the guy losing the girlfriend to cheating was someone who didn’t deserve her in the first place by being abusive; or heck maybe just not appreciating her enough. I might have laughed if this situation had played out when Lucy was Walky’s girlfriend. But Dorothy was, in his own words, the perfect girlfriend (that he somehow walked ass backwards into dating). the one that made him want to better himself, the one who accepted his flaws when his grades were slipping, the one he truly connected with to the point that they immediately rekindled the second that the opportunity came.
I don’t think Dorothy and Walky were soulmates or that their relationship would even last until the end of their degrees. but they genuinely connected and were vulnerable with each other in ways they weren’t with others.
He deserves better than being laughed at in the face while being broken up with
Narratively, I don’t find it funny, but I do think that looked at on its own, the page is silly.
I personally don’t think he was thaaat invested in this round of dating Dorothy, but the Joyce laughing and stuff feels unnecessarily mean even if he is alright with it, and also I don’t love the witch from running out of Joe’s room to tell Dorothy about the paper, then after grabbing Dorothy, popping back into Walky’s room just to laugh at him? And I know there need to be breaks in tension now and then but it feels like an uncomfortable place for it.
Right? Why does one need to have any dislike of Walky to find this whole bit funny? I have nothing against Walky, he’s fine by me… he’s not my most favorite character (that would be Becky and Dina, because duh.) The only characters I have ever hated we Blaine and Toedad. Walky isn’t in the same galaxy as either of them.
If you can’t explain why happened to the video of you reacting with laughter why should we believe it.
It’s well known trope a picture is worth a thousand words, yet you didn’t even come close to 999.
What theory of humor are you even invoking. You just can’t write lol on the Internet and expect believers. If you aren’t a guru leading a laughing cult meditation sect ( it’s real. ) 700 words is very doable.
I have been pro Walky/Dorothy as well as liking both characters on their own for the entire time I’ve read the comic. I still find this hilarious considering how Joyce and Walky have tended to poke at each other.
One of Walky’s earliest jokes in response to “I don’t feel like I get any time with my best friend since she’s dating you” was “Next time we kiss, I’ll let you pretend you’re me.” Absolutely savage, just like this. That’s just how they are with each other.
I imagine Walky will want a better explanation from Dorothy but also gets that they might possibly have more pressing issues to deal with (especially if he saw the paper).
1009 just now. Pf. Well, I’m pretty sure no-one will bother with this. Oh, well.
Anyway, I was just thinking that since we’re currently in comedic mode, Becky’s reaction could be something like this:
Becky: [screams at top of lungs] JOYCE!?!? DOTTY!?!? HOW COULD YOU?!?!
Becky: . . .
Becky: [in normal tones] . . . is what I woulda said if I hadn’t been expectin’ and pushin’ this for months now.
Becky: Dina, let’s go hang in your room.
Becky: [over her shoulder] You can use one of my socks!
something i really resent is that internet comments sections like these make me feel like a boomer because i finally understand the feeling of “you people are taking this too seriously.” its a comic. its gonna have slapstick somewhere. as a fictional character, joyces last panel reaction is the payoff after YEARS of walky’s end panel punchlines at joyce’s expense re: dorothy and her. its fucking funny and a GOOD EXAMPLE OF LONG FORM COMIC PAYOFF. christ!!!
And some people are acting like they can’t tell the difference between “I dislike these characters on their own merits”/”I think this was tone whiplash” and “I’m offended because I conflate reality and fiction”.
You may have seen it coming, Walky, but I didn’t.
I’m a new-comer here, I just joined a few weeks ago, upon which I read through the entire Dumbiverse and Walkyverse archives (yes, I need a life). But, back to my point, I really didn’t see it coming. Joyce is an obnoxiously friendly person who is extremely possessive of her friends. While I understand Walky’s immature reaction to it, I don’t see how her relationship with Dorothy differs from her other friends.
As to Dorothy, her gut was right, this patronizing (matronizing?) behavior as a reaction to the previous semester’s trauma.
tbh I think that even though this is comedy, there’s also real pathos and strong characterization in the way Walky seems to accept his fate. It plays into both his self-deprecation and his sincere-but-understated compassion. Panel 4 might be one of my favorites.
My friend whod doesn’t read this comic said this about this comment section and i ad to share it:
“Man, it’s like YouTube except you have only one topic to fight over. Sounds boring.”
I feel like this entire arc at this point has had no other point than to get Dorothy and Joyce smooching while ignoring literally everything else at any possible chance
I don’t see it. Maybe its cause I’m super late but aside from a few people being snippy to each other I don’t see the extreme takes others are bringing up (not saying they’re not there, theres 1k+ comments for petes sake)
observation: regardless of how one feels about how Dumbing of Age is written I think the comments feel like a microcosm of the broader proshipper/antishipper internet gang war in that no matter how bad faith and abusive pros can be, nobody gives better arguments against the anti position than antis themselves
I keep finding myself wishing the site had a function to sort comics by number of comments. As far as I know the only way is to go and check them all manually. I’m so curious how many of these recent comics are breaking into the top ten or so.
Willis, apologies. My finger slipped and I hit “report post” on a random utterly harmless comment instead of the link in the comment, and with 1000+ comments I can’t even find it anymore. Again, not intentional, sorry about that.
You don’t have to worry reports don’t actually go to Willis comments get deleted automatically if like a dozen people report it and nobody gets notified about it
Yeah I think I’m gonna just stop reading the comic period. I can’t keep myself from reading the comments and they make me frankly miserable. I also don’t really like the comic anymore so yeah.
I find it completely baffling that so many people could see a story about two people who’ve been platonically in love with each other for their entire adult lives coming to the mutual realization that said love is romantic and sexual as well, and concluding that the most important part of that story should be the reactions of their week-long boyfriends.
“Always gonna steal your thunder
Watch me like a dark cloud
On the move collecting numbers
I’ma take your girl out
We will be everything that we’d ever need
Don’t tell me, tell me what I feel
I’m real and I don’t feel like boys
I’m real and I don’t feel like boys
Saw your face, heard your name, gotta get with you
Girls like girls like boys do, nothing new
Isn’t this why we came? Gotta get with you
Girls like girls, like boys do, nothing new
Girls like girls, like boys do, nothing new”
I don’t really see what the big deal is. This is pretty in line with everyone’s established characterization here.
Walky has had multiple breakups before, for even messier reasons sometimes, and his reaction has usually always been similarly lowkey. That’s Walky. This isn’t even the first time Dorothy specifically has broken up with him.
It also makes sense he’d have seen this coming and resigned himself to expecting it. Walky has been one of the most vocal characters about noticing Joyce’s unsubtle repressed crush on Dorothy, often in ways that are deliberately trying to demean, upset, and/or antagonize Joyce. Most of their relationship dynamic is Walky being a smugly dismissive jackass that purposefully riles her up for his own amusement. This is why Joyce genuinely just dislikes Walky as a person, and is why she willingly antagonize him here. This is a sort of karmic irony returning Walky’s usual energy to Joyce back at him.
Joyce has been so cartoonishly cruel to Walky for a good minute now in a comic that rarely lets that kind of punchline lie forever without repercussion.
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sometimes, ya just gotta let a romantic comedy be a COMEDY, ammi right?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
No lie detected.
Best laugh I’ve had in ages.
And thus began Walky’s Start of Dorkness….I mean Darkness.
He was already a dork (but we love ‘im for it!)
The rise of Darkest Nightguy…
So true!
Exactly! The narrative needs some room to breathe briefly, between dramatic and emotional moments
Yup, especially since we’re probably about to hit a year of hurt.
A year of hurt ?
Best possible first comment on this one tbh
I feel like that could be possible while still doing anything interesting with Walkys character, but who knows. Maybe we’ll get there later.
I was a big fan of Its Walky, so like, I get that he had his own comic and maybe Willis is a little bored with him. But I do miss him and hope he gets more spotlight soon.
He’s been a little out of focus lately, but he still has more appearances overall than anyone but Joyce and Dorothy.
Huh, I didn’t think Walky appeared THAT much but sure enough, he is a solid third overall according to the character tags.
I think that’s a bit skewed cause he’s p often in the background
Is it too meta with folks pointing out how it’s a comic and there’s always a need for levity—the punchline of this strip is that the character who hides their emotions and feelings, seen by the cast as just a goof, gets dunked on?
Enough witht he low level fights. Time to bring in Becky for the boss battle.
nope this is the final dumbing of age panel, there are no more comics, teh end , run credits
Amen, comrade.A big and hearty amen.
10/10 no onotes i def expected walky to take it well
wonder who his next love interest will be if there’s any single girls left (or guy)
I expect this break up with Dorothy will last even less time than his previous break up with Dorothy.
I’m gonna use my faovorite comedy for a second: Brooklyn 99.
Brooklyn 99 can make me laugh at Jake Peralta being weird and immature, but it never tries to convince me that he’s a bad cop for a sake of a gag.
There are in fact many jokes in Brooklyn 99 that paint Jake as a bad cop, and in fact it would probably be a better show if it was more willing to lean into the 99 being bad cops
Somehow from a mountain of comments i have disagreed with in the last few days that is the one I disagree with the most
To be fair he is mostly portrayed as competent. Just you know, frequently less than good.
I do think the issue is that when a work is in full drama-mode, rapidly shifting gears into a main character being comically mean isn’t going to work for everyone
I do think this is funny, but I confess I am disappointed that this is taking up the space of an actual serious break-up scene. I wanted dramatic catharsis, not comedic catharsis. Maybe that’s the point, hard to judge at this point
Oh my god, we’ve had literally THREE Walky breakups so far in this comic. Three.
Each time his reaction has been pretty close to the last panel.
Hell, his breakup with Lucy was so low-key that people didn’t realize they broke up.
What drama were you expecting, exactly? This is the second time these exact characters have broken up. Go reread the first one 😛
And for the record, yes, this is the fourth. I’ve counted.
Their relationship this time around was so close to fuckbuddies you might as well call it fuckbuddies. They were like “wanna fuck for now?”
( counts ) 1, 2, 3, … 4 , 5. …. 6.
I counted.
This is … The 4th time Walky and Dorothy broke up.
1st time Joyce made Walky take her back.
2nd Time was studying.
3rd time “grades are slipping” unfair to keep yanking you back.
This is the 4th time.
But I might be forgetting one or nonconsensual Dorothy going back to Walky.
5 was Amber in Halloween.
But Walky sort of dumped her first out of loyalty to Sal.
6 was lucy.
7 is here.
He pretend dumped Amber at Dinner.
So there might be 10 Walky dump scenes in all.
Not saying I wanted something super explosive and shouty, but I kind of wanted to feel something other than ‘sensible chuckle’.
That’s part of why I’m withholding judgement, because it’s pretty possible this is a delaying thing for pacing reasons and the actual unpacking of Walky/Dorothy 2.0 fizzling out is going to happen later in a way that delivers the goods.
Walky / Dorothy 3.0 is going to come back so fast that pretty soon people will be commenting that Dorothy never actually stated that she was breaking up with him in this comic, meaning that they never ended it a second time.
They ended it a second time 10 years ago.
Walky dumped first.
Dorothy dumped him second for more study time.
This was Walky / Dorothy 3.0 or 5.0.
( Agree with you commenters will say she never stated it.
But the intent is clear and on the paper )
I don’t think they are coming back because Dorothy wanted Joyce the whole time.
And this never should have happened. Walky was circling back to Amber when interrupted by lucy then Dorothy. This ship is over.
Joyce x Joe feels aborted prematurely.
This is why when people take complete gag panels seriously I’m like “uh… people? What are we doing here?”
Indeed. But 15 years?! I thought it hqd only been a little over one semester.
Being vague about publishing to in comic timeline aside, wow, it has been 15 years. I’m pretty sure that’s longer than 8-Bit Theater’s long rear brick joke set up. Not quite the same thing, but still.
Okay, Joyce villain arc. I’m in.
support women’s wrongs
I, like Willis, am profoundly unconcerned about Walky’s feelings in this storyline. Get fucked, mascot boy. This book is for dramatic shenanigans and you have opted out.
the best part of today’s strip is right here, where the words “get fucked, mascot boy” came out of Leslie’s perfectly calm and cheerful face
Since my gravatar is Robin, I’m going to join in, bubble pipe in mouth: get fucked, mascot boy. Get fucked completely.
But not by Dorothy, that won’t happen anymore.
I guess I’m here now for the Walky-Jennifer coupling.
If you incest.
Well, maybe. Joyce hasn’t told her she’s in a polycule yet.
This mess is nowhere close to getting sorted out yet.
Step #1: Seduce Dorothy
Step #2: ???
Step #3: Acquire Unlimited Powah
Step #4: Kill the God that you no longer believe in
Step #5: Become a Final Fantasy villain
She already relinquish unlimited power in the form of a tree branch once. I guess 20 years is long enough for a reboot.
But the tree branch is Replacement Mike now.
How is it that I never pieced together that booster was meant to be the DoA equivalent to the booster rod. When I have reread it’s Walky like, 3 times now? I think only one of those rereads was in this decade though. (I got to the faans crossover anyways and then end up switching to another faans read through on more than one occasion, now there’s a comic I’ve reread like 5 times by now).
Can’t I just skip to Step 5? I wanna be a Final Fantasy villain 🙁
You missed “Assert Dominance”. There is clearly an “Assert Dominance” step involved.
It’s depicted in the strip above.
That’s what Joyce is doing to Dorothy, sexually
Step 2 is “Profit”.
Profit is on third.
Is that right? I Don’t Know.
Your plan has a major error – where do the Underpants Gnomes come in?
Can’t kill a God that never existed.
Which means she BECOMES the God she never believed in.
Wait I think that makes her a xenoblade villain.
Joyce, quite literally, stole the girl.
And that’s how it works
That’s how you get the girl
to protect the world from devastation!
to drive the masses to temptation!
to denounce the evils forbidding our love!
to gouge God’s eyes in the sky above!
Team Sickos blasts off at the speed of light!
surrender to the awe of our impious blight!
Uggghhh… a part of me wants to be mad at Joyce for this… but honestly, after all the grief Walky gave her before by telling her she was gay for Dorothy makes this petty but also minorly justified to me. Is it a douchey thing for Joyce to do? Absolutely. However, Walky has been kind of a dick to her for this exact thing for months. I think the wind being taken out of his sail makes sense.
Controversial opinion: I think Joyce hasn’t done anything seriously bad this arc, but she should. I think she should push Joe off a bridge #pushjoeoffabridge
Appropriate avatar is appropriate.
Changed it specifically to make this comment lol
A most awesome and bodacious decision.
What’s the point in being a hussy if you can’t get a villain arc about it?
If this means she’ll remember every day to take her hussy pills AND without drinking a liter of sugar water every damn day, I’m welcoming our new Hussy Joyce Evil Overlady.
THE 2L OF SPRITE REMAINS
Ha! WILD
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!
She fucking took his whole bit, man! She stole LAWsome! That’s way worse than stealing Dorothy!
Sadly, Mike is dead, so Walky’s not getting drop-kicked in the junk right now.
One could argue (and many are) that his emotional junk is being dropkicked, though.
Yeah, but it’s the adding injury to insult that really made LAWsome!.
Panel 6: Dina runs in and kicks Walky, and then, as he’s painfully curled up in the fetal position, asks him if she correctly interpreted the social obligation.
**slow clap for deliverything**
Adjusting my headcanon to this, deliverything
+1
Mike would be so proud.
That’s an Agatha Harkness laugh, all right.
🤣🤣🤣
Yeah, Joyce will always be able to find time to get a sibling-y ding at Walky, even mid freak out.
And yeah, I’m sure Walky will have no other reaction! 😀
This isn’t even sibling-y. This is treating Walky cruelly for no reason.
I have an unusual hypothesis, there is a secret audience of unseen people and it was for the laugh
Same reason as all the other lesbian gags Walky made you forgot to laugh at
Some might even call it a “punchline”
Cruelty isn’t funny. There is nothing clever here, just Joyce being a bad winner and a petty jerk.
this is funny as hell, what are you talking about lmao
I think it can be funny and cruel. I don’t like trying to undercut what people take away from how they read something. I also think it limits the comic and characters by saying “it doesn’t count cause it’s just a joke.” To me this is funny and Joyce and Walky’s relationship is more toxic than sibling coded and that actually makes it even funnier! Like yeah, Joyce will do this because she’s been spitefully jealous of Walky for 15 years! It’s a great payoff!
This is kind of funny and it’s a funny payoff to the Joyce/Walky relationship, but it’s also clearly not the “it doesn’t count cause it’s just a joke” last panel punchline kind of thing. It actually changes things. It keeps Dorothy from actually having to confess to Walky and us from seeing how they deal with it.
Dorothy has not, in fact, broken up with Walky at this point. After a discussion with Joyce about assumptions regarding exclusivity, she can come back and pick up with, as I was saying before Joyce interupted …
And is Walky supposed to pretend this didn’t just happen?
Even if she hasn’t technically broken up with him, he now knows “the difficult thing I’m trying to say”. He’s not going to ignore it, just because it was set up as a joke for us.
And frankly, while I hope they do talk about it again, right now he’s been dumped and I won’t blame him at all if he acts like it.
I mean, he IS being dumped. If your partner hems and haws at you for 10 minutes and then gets yoinked away with a smile on their face by someone going, ‘she’s mine now, you two are through’ and they don’t say ANYTHING about it… you’ve been dumped. By a coward who didn’t even have the decency to do so themselves.
Um
https://www.dumbingofage.com/images/blog/lawsome002.png
Ya, but if a joke doesn’t respect the dynamics of the characters relationship then it gives the reader less of a reason to care about those relationships.
What the hell is this true
I need to update the wiki
It is a joke. In a comedy comic
This is a comedy comic? I keep hearing Telemundo Piano music…
she kicked him right in his sabado gigante
That is the sibling experience, at least when you’re this age.
I mean, cruelty is exactly how I treated my little brother most of my pre-first-puberty years, and I’d wager is not uncommon among sibling dynamics. This doesn’t even really register on the scale compared to some of the shit I did.
Yeah, I now wish for nothing but terrible things to happen to Joyce. She can just fuck all the way off.
Is it normal for siblings to steal each other’s partner and then rub it in their face?
Right?
Ask Sarah and her sister.
Relevant strips: https://www.dumbingofage.com/2021/comic/book-12/01-sister-christian/originstory/ and https://www.dumbingofage.com/2022/comic/book-12/03-trial-and-sarah/gladtohear/ (and nearby strips too).
Although we never got to see if Liz rubbed it in her face.
I never caught the woman who stole me from her sister gloating about it, but I am certain that sibling dynamics played some role in the whole affair
Normal? No.
Does it happen? Yes.
The latest weeks have been way too serious… today’s update reminded me that there are these kind of interactions in the comic also.
rofl!
Joyce-Walky dynamic in a single update, and its glorious!
She’s about to get outed by the newspaper to her longtime best friend who threw away her life just to be with her. She’s allowed to gloat over a romantic rival.
How the hell do those dots make a line?
I have a hard time seeing Joyce and Walky as sibling-y considering they literally got married with children in an earlier story
Joyce: All your Dorothy are belong to me!
Walky: Are we even old enough to know that meme?
Joyce: I was denied secular media growing up, I have catching up to do, cut me some slack!!
Ah, a time lord of culture I see!
YOU HAVE NO CHANCE TO SURVIVE MAKE YOUR TIME.
What you say??? Someone set us up the bomb!
HA HA HA HA . . . .
UP US
Up whom? Up us! Logic!
WHAT YOU SAY !!
I saw an actual “do you have stairs in your house” reference in the wild earlier today!
That’s a weirdly ominous thing to ask somebody.
I don’t know why nobody has yet said it yet so I’ll do my bit.
“TAKE OFF EVERY SHIP!”
FOR GREAT JUSTICE!
….god, what an uncaring person.
yeah you’d have thought he’d at least ask a question, but he’s just giving up I guess lmao
“Don’t give a shit. It’s not like I’m starving for options.”
Gradually starting to wonder why Joyce’s problem is having too MANY romantic partners.
Any time I start to sympathize with her in this story she goes and does some new awful thing.
Right? Like holy shit, girl. YOU may not care about Walky, but it’s clear your GIRLFRIEND does. Maybe have a thimble full of decency?
Yeah, how can Dorothy be attracted to this disrespect ?
“What do you do when you’ve got to choose?
One may win but the rest must lose;
Leave a lotta girls singing the blues—
Who do you love?”
(Leslie Fish, “Spaceman’s Dilemma”)
Nah, she totally cares. If she were indifferent, she wouldn’t have taken time out to come back and laugh in his face some more.
Joe deserves better.
Who? Joyce? Or Walky? I disagree with both, btw.
Let me propose a question for people:
If, during the middle of Joyce talking to Joe, Dorothy ran in, grabbed Joyce, laughed in Joe’s face and left, would we still be saying that was OK?
Would JOYCE think it was OK? Because that’s exactly what just happened here.
Person A was in a romantic relationship with their partner, whom Person B did not like. They were having a serious conversation and Person B decided that it didn’t matter and that the partner was not entitled to consideration and decency.
I get that this is a comic strip, and it needs punchlines, but when the punchlines make characters we are supposed to like act like bongos, it’s kind of self-defeating.
they are 18 and supposed to act like bongos, their hormines and endorphins are running wild, and walky and joyce have been humourly ripping each other in a very fraternal manner. in no way is this interaction out of character for the dynamics these 3 have thus far,and wakly even acknowlegdes that he knew he would eventually lose dottty to joyce.
to anwer you question though, with the way joe has handled all this i do not think he would be effected any different than walky, as well with they way joyce feels for joe, i could see joyce saying the same i will be back and we will talk about this. given the panic of the moment, if i was walky here/joe in your scenario, sure i might feel hurt in the moment, but once context behind the actions came to light i would in fact be extremely if not completely forgiving of it. there is shared trauma and history here to be aware of, and both of these guys are aware of it/have been directly involved it this. is it a shitty thing to do yes it is. do i understand why and how it could happen, yes. do i believe this mitigates things 100%, and would if it were to occur to me in this moment with the knowledge available to the participants here, i would be understanding and fairly forgiving.
i do not get the drive to analyze each event in the comic as though it has occurred with out context or as though it occurred in a vaccuum. the only events that should ever be analized in this manner are scientific experiments in which we can control the context of the experiment.
as an example if someone was to examine a singular event from my life to this degree while removing the context of the fact that the world around me exists and has a direct and uncontrollable influence on life. they would enrage me and i would very likely lose all desire to have this person in my life. the refusal to recognize the context of the world around exists and it’s influence of the events that occur may simply be my single greatest pet peeve. life does not exist in a vacuum and there is no reallife situation that should ever be analyzed with out at minimum acknoledgement that there is context that also needs to be analyzed or a statement that you are actively ignoring the context.
Nope. In this scenario Joyce doesn’t get to say “i will be back and we will talk about this” any more than Dorothy does here.
The scenario is just Dorothy jumping in at the start of their conversation saying “She’s mine now. I win, you lose” and yoinking her out laughing.
whelp i lose my argument to that typo i guess as i had meant dorothy could also say the ill be back to talk to walky about it
But she didn’t.
She could have. She could also tell Joyce she’s being a jerk and not to mock Walky like that. But she didn’t.
she never really did even when joyce was teling walky why he wasnt good enough for her, not argueing she should have been the better person or that it wasnt mean just that it did not occur in a vacuum
At this point I want Walky to call Dorothy out for how unconcerned she’s been for him between going back and forth on wanting to date him to being fine with Joyce being an ass, Walky might be the chill one but it would be nice if he stood up for himself on getting his feeling always put last on Dorothy’s list when she’s souppposed to be at minimum his friend too and she hasn’t Bern for a while.
Fuck off with this bullshit excuse of “their hormones” for Joyce being an actual terrible person
This is a mite intense as a response to another human being about a webcomic.
Also, the nature of their current relationships was wildly different. Walky’s emotionally intuitive enough to have caught the vibe that Dorothy was kinda using him as a placeholder, whereas Joe had every reason to believe Joyce was serious about them. To argue that Walky totally thought Dorothy was as serious about their relationship as Joyce was about Joe, you’d have to think Walky was pretty freaking stupid.
Also I think the “HA” punchline is actually BETTER for pathos! If it ended on the “Guess I sorta always knew that’d happen eventually” line, it’d be easy for readers to just shrug it off. This actually increases empathy for Walky in a way that’s thematically important, while reinforcing a character dynamic they’ve always had! It makes us imagine the reaction beyond his “well, that just happened” exterior! It’s good character work!
And yeah Joyce is being mean but this is the one avenue in which she’s been consistently mean for the entire comic!
(It’s funny, when I first saw the comic I was like “hmm I’d like the punchline better without the last panel” but reading others’ opposition to it makes me appreciate how well-crafted and important it is, both to the humor AND the emotional core)
If you tell the same joke, but with different characters who have different personalities, different interpersonal histories, are in different situations, and will react in different ways, is it still the same joke?
“Dorothy ran in”
OMG. That’s friggin hysterical.
Actually funnier than what we got.
Then Joe holds up the newspaper.
I strongly agree. It’s like jumping into a hilarious yet mean-spirited yet totally reciprocal and expected joke between myself and close friend and analyzing to death how awful of a person I am.
Like sure, if you take some comment I make completely out of context of a long friendship, shared interests, some rivalry, and everything else around the decision, it might seem like an unforgivable and awful thing to do.
In context, though, it might be a goofy and playful thing that’s only mildly hurtful though. Also, this is a comic meant to be funny and these are 18 year olds.
I haven’t spent much time in the comments and mostly jumped in out of excitement for the poly representation (which is cool regardless of how it specifically ends), yet so much of it is such high school, Puritan bull that I really feel like I need to go back to ignoring comments entirely again.
Im getting emotional whiplash
+1
Thinking maybe I gotta start reading these once a week instead of every day
And miss the entertainment in the comment section?
i know right!
but in all seriousness if you find reading the comments/the strip it self is effecting your happyness please take a break, and we will welcome you back with inane arguments and hyporbole and hypocritisms and when you return!
Oh right Joyce is fucking awful to Walky
Guess I hate this storyline again!
You can only make the “Ha ha, you wanna fuck my girlfriend joke” so many times before it’s willed into reality.
…….okay, if she had referenced those running jokes by Walky, that would’ve been fucking hilarious :D.
You can only complain so much about getting hit by Apollo’s dodgeball if you’ve spent the last semester yelling about how good a target for dodgeballs you are
I feel it will be more balanced out once Walky recovers enough to snark back. I mean, he already immediately snarked back with “knew that’d happen eventually” and then she snarked back with liek a Mandark laugh.. It’s 2:1 Joyce this strip. And Walky’s point isn’t even a joke any more.
Joyce still isn’t as mean as his mom though. But Joyce and Walky both goof through awkward situations and are plastic enough to become better unlike that scary woman. This is still a mean moment and I understand your hate, but they will work it out later I think.
Who is Joyce rushing to meet with Dorothy, instead of Walky?
It’s mutual! They’re awful to each other in pretty equal measure
I mean, it’s hard to remember everything from 15 years worth of strips, but I’ve just never seen that. It seems to me that Joyce ONE TIME overheard Walky being mean, saying she was “hella indoctrinated”–which it’s worth noting is an opinion she now agrees with so strongly that her bitterness over said indoctrination caused a rift with Becky–and that essentially all of the dislike and meanness has been on her side in response to that one moment–while Walky is not really much worse than indifferent to her.
Walky’s definitely made a couple mean jabs to her. I think there was once when Joyce was complaining that Walky gets all of Dorothy’s free time, and he goes, “okay, we can meet each other halfway. You can be there and watch while we make out.”
He’s cooled off on her a lot ever since the ‘indoctrination’ remark, other than the occasional ‘haha lesbians’ remark.
Even worse than jabs at Joyce, he immediately clicked with Becky. How could he be forgiven for that?
I can’t find the strip right now, but Walky has been a big enough dick to Joyce that his sister called him out for it.
Ah, here it is: https://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/02-threes-a-crowd/foranybody/
It’s funny, I’ve several times recently cited Walky’s constant lesbian comments as evidence that he knows what the score is between Joyce and Dorothy, and got, “nooo it’s just an immature teenage boy being a jerk!!111!” as a response, but as soon as it’s Joyce being mean to Walky, it’s all, “What did he ever do to deserve this?????”
Hypocrisy. 😛
“Oh, if only…” indeed.
Walky is being a dick here but also two wrongs don’t make a right. You pointed out Sal calls him on it here so like…even the narrative is painting this teasing as bad. So I’m justified in calling Walky a jerk there. I’m justified in calling Joyce a jerk here.
You fully are! I think John is just arguing that it’s important to do both instead of just one.
But one is happening right now. I don’t think most of us are under the impression Walky is some pure angel who’s never done anything bad but moreso that this seems disproportionately mean if we’re meant to believe he cared about his relationship with Dorothy. And since the comic hasn’t called her on it like Sal did to Walky we feel more inclined to criticize her behavior.
John’s link is from 2015. Walky had been doing that to Joyce since 2010, and he kept doing it afterwards, so…?
Irrelevant. My point is that the reason people are mad at Joyce right now is cuz Joyce is being an asshole right now. Go back to all those strips and I bet youll see tons of people calling Walky an asshole cuz he’s being an asshole.
Okay. I didn’t say no one could call Joyce a jerk. And I do feel like it’s important to note that while you may not be saying Walky is an innocent angel, John was replying to Lee’s comment.
“I mean, it’s hard to remember everything from 15 years worth of strips, but I’ve just never seen [them being mutually awful to each other]. It seems to me that Joyce ONE TIME overheard Walky being mean, saying she was “hella indoctrinated”–which it’s worth noting is an opinion she now agrees with so strongly that her bitterness over said indoctrination caused a rift with Becky–and that essentially all of the dislike and meanness has been on her side in response to that one moment–while Walky is not really much worse than indifferent to her..”
Emphasis mine.
I’m on my tablet here so I’m not going to try to provide links or anything, but Sal got on Walky’s case once, in half a dozen or more incidents that we’ve *seen*. Walky has been low-level harassing Joyce about her beliefs, her upbringing, and her sexuality practically since the day they met.
And, yeah, Joyce is being hilariously mean here. And I believe that you don’t think that Walky’s a perfect angel. But there are plenty of people in the comments here who are pretending that this is unprovoked unilateral aggression on Joyce’s part, and it’s so, so not. This is just her response to the last *five months* of microaggressions in a fight that *Walky* started.
I guess maybe the difference is I put a lot more stock into being in a relationship than you guys do.
…no?
Neither of us is saying Joyce isn’t being mean. We are only saying it wasn’t unprovoked, which again, you aren’t saying, but Lee, the person John originally responded to, was. Lee asked what Walky had ever done to Joyce, John provided an answer.
Yeah, you’re right, I’d forgotten that he’d made jabs like that over years.
But I still don’t entirely agree with your second paragraph. I think people say that because Walky has been a jerk and/or crass with the way he teases her at times and probably deserves the same back from her, he *hasn’t* crossed that line of “intentionally and maliciously being hurtful with it” and *doesn’t* deserve that back. Yet, today at least, Joyce gives it to him anyway.
Again, that doesn’t mean he’s *innocent*, but if Walky deserved a “that was a bit too far” from Sal in your example, Joyce definitely deserves one from Dorothy today.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2018/comic/book-8/04-of-mike-and-men/qualities/
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2018/comic/book-8/04-of-mike-and-men/harassing/
Has he not? Because this looks like intentional and malicious hurt.
Walky recently (past 2 years) had a jab at Joyce where he asked her “what’s it like only knowing a small fraction of the world you inhabit” because she didn’t know who Taylor Swift was. Which, as a fundie myself, I can tell you still stings quite a lot.
However I agree, that’s still leagues nicer than today’s mean-spirited crap from Joyce.
(*former fundie, that felt implied but wanted to clarify)
thank you clarity is a rare and valuable commoditiy in this world
https://www.tumblr.com/semtitulo/791021782931013632/meeeeeeeee-3-i-could-post-literal-hundreds-of
Here’s an incredibly non-exhaustive sampling of times Walky has publicly mocked Joyce for her feelings towards Dorothy, enjoy!
Yep, no. Yep.
I thought this strip was a bit out of character of Joyce but nope. Yep. I see it now. Fair enough. Walky kinda earned that.
You’re not supposed to remember what happened before the latest strip.
It’s funny how some commenters “forgot” all these, just to be able to act superior to Joyce/Dorothy… and hate them. 😛
Actually if anything this makes Walky more justfied in making fun of Joyce.
Having someone clearly into someone you are dating who disregards boundaries isn’t fun.
….<.<
what?
No it doesn't.
Cause even if everyone else was seeing it, neither Joyce nor Dorothy knew it.
homophobic mockery is extra deserved when the victim turns out to be gay for real later, cites expert in commenting
he was being mean to Joyce in his previous on-screen appearance
No they’re not lmfao
This is several orders of magnitude worse than everything Walky has done to her combined.
walky made fun of her for not having his girlfriend every other time they spoke to one another, so like. idk, it seems very tit for tat with these two. They have never had anything other than a mutually antagonistic relationship with one another. I wouldn’t even classify them as friends. In walkys previous onscreen appearance he was insulting her and callong her delusional behind her back. idk why ppl think he’s innocent or beyond this
I mean….she constantly acted super jealous he was dating his girlfriend
he mocks her for being a victim of a cult, he mocks her for being closted, he mocks her for being stupid, he mocks her for the way she dresses, what she eats, her media taste, They’re Both Like This.
as my mom always said, if you are slightly mean to someone you are still being mean, and you cannot control if they escalate to a greater level of being mean. just be cause you inlicted what felt like a minor harm on someone else you do not get to control thier reaction, it may be a reaction that socioty will never accept as a reasonable or justified reaction, but you DO NOT get to control it. every action will create a reaction, and unless in a scientifically controlled enviroment you get no control. so always try to do as little harm as you can and do your bet to be forgiving in the moment.
or as we are all told “if you do not want others to harm you do not cause others harm.”
for example i am using my ruler as a diving board for GIJOES, and one of them joes hits someone and they break my ruler.
is the response extreme and greater in proportion to the harm i caused, i would say yes, but I am still the instigator, i still caused the other person harm, and i am still (to me) in the wrong and should apologize. hopefully the other party will accept the apology and forgive but i do not get to control that.
I do not agree, but even if I did, it didn’t come from nowhere. It is very shitty of Joyce to act like that, but Walky did it multiple times, mostly for fun… I’m sorry, but he stained the relationship first.
I was hoping for Joyce to be better than that, and feel sorry for Walky, sure, but I do not think she is being worse than he has been.
I’d have to go back and dig through early strips to see who was first, but Joyce spent a lot of time saying he wasn’t good enough for Dorothy, both to his face and behind his back.
But mocking someone for losing when you’ve just gotten their girlfriend to cheat on them with you is just way beyond anything Walky’s done. But hey, it’s funny. We laugh. No consequences. Walky’s probably not even going to be mad about it.
It was Walky. Walky was mean to Joyce first, and informed why she felt like he didn’t deserve Dorothy.
She really is being a jerk for no good reason.
There is a good reason, which is that it’s very funny to me specifically.
Just got off the phone with our research department. They confirmed that, indeed, that reasoning very much does check out.
I knew the science community would have back after all thise brib- i mean donations.
“Grants”.
“But they’re sibling coded!”/s
Me over here trying my ass off to not make the “Dorothy’s the mom friend” joke again and failing utterly.
Dorothy physically gave birth to Walky and Joyce, which makes them siblings and also her biological children. It’s the only thing that makes sense.
She’s still a better mom to both of them then their actual moms, even with the Alderaan Wine Social aspects.
No, no, it’s Joyce who is a Friend of Dorothy
I really want to call Joyce out for being mean and petty here, but I’m laughing too hard.
In before the Relationship Paladins comment 200+ times about how evil Joyce is
Things are looking up for Mary and Roz at this rate!
Too late, Acebender.
Was never against Roz.
Roz always got shit because she wasn’t 100% aware of the main cast every time she spoke.
Mocking ppl for observing a true thing doesn’t make it wrong.
I mean it’s not true. Joyce is at worst being petty towards someone who has been equally antagonistic toward her. That’s hardly evil
if you’re gonna complain about the technical-as-opposed-to-hyperbolic definition of evil, you should at least have a realistic “at worst”. that spin is near “at best”.
“Hey, me and your girlfriend cheated on you and now I’m going to laugh in your face and keep her from talking to you.”
In what UNIVERSE is this equivalent to the jabs Walky has made at Joyce over the comic? Hell, SARAH made more jabs at Joyce when she was talking to Jacob.
look to my comment above, if walky hadnot been mean and hurtful to joyce throughout the strips history she would have no reaso to act this way and then yes it is then completely unjustified, but t doesnt change tha fact that walky was rude and a bit of a bongo to joyce at the begginning.
i guess the hill i die in in this comment is the ignorance of the context of events.
And you selectively ignore that Walky’s responses to Joyce have been based on her constantly giving him the stink eye any time he was affectionate or spent time with Dorothy?
Walky didn’t attack Joyce on her blooming love for Dorothy out of nowhere, he did it because Joyce was aggressive towards him for no reason other than he was dating the girl she wanted.
but that ignores that walky was kmaikng fun of her and her religion whenthey met at the biggining of the year, thus being the one who initiated the dynamic that leads to joyce behaving like this.
not defending what joyce did as being right, just that it didnt happen in a vacuum
Not the best strip to claim they’re wrong.
She is being evil but also I think it’s funny.
Like that’s a bad thing. I want evil Joyce!
Every character in this comic should have a heel turn.
I’m legit a little mad that Joe and Walky are being reasonable about this. I want Walky to become the Joker and instead he’s becoming Martin Questionablecontent
*Marten
But I see where you’re coming from
Marton isn’t here to defend himself from misspellings of his name, and if he were, he’d do it in the wimpiest way possible and then get talked over by someone more assertive, like an oxygen molecule.
That’s not a nice thing to say about Martun
Everyone is misspelling Mertan Wienerboy who opened a stupid millennial coffee shop in a fucking robot theme park city because he is the most boring creature in the universe, and it’s very rude
How dare some of us point out how shitty Joyce is acting lately, instead of cheering her on.
I do so hope you’ll keep coming back to point it out with every successive strip! Kidding, kidding, I know you’ll do it regardless of anything I say.
I might agree if that sort of thing was off topic, but saying that Joyce is acting shitty is hardly an unreasonable thing to talk about in the discussion for a strip whose entire joke is that Joyce is being comically mean to her romantic rival
who has ah history of borderline comments made towards joyce
Comments are talking about what’s going on in the comic.
More at 11
What’s a little gloating between friends?
“… how shitty Joyce is acting”
Number 2 and counting.
Why are you scolding yourself?
well that was quick
Oh that’s right; lemme just collect this on the way…
*YOINK*
Ok now I gotta go…
the most beautifully evil triangle smile of all 🙂
also nodding enthusiastically to the audience so everyone knows i endorse these actions as morally pure & just 👍
Awww dangit, I was totally thinking of signing up with gravitar just to use that triangle smile as my new avatar, but I see you have beaten me to the punch. 😁
Not. So. Fast.
The origin story of the new costumed villain, Triangle Smile Girl!
I’m really not liking Joyce a lot these days.
Yeah. I will say I appreciate this specific strip as a bit of comedy. In the Looney Tunes sense, this is hilarious.
But in the sense of this being a slice of life comic where we have gotten to know the cast, this is awful. Joyce skipped out on Joe in the middle of a needed conversation, which is at least partially about how she disregarded his feelings. She did this so she could go be cruel to Walky and gloat about Dorothy. I sincerely hope she’s not going to bring her girlfriend with her to talk to Becky, because that would be villainous, but that means she cut and ran on Joe for hijinks, which is also not great. And while this isn’t the fault of the strip or the author, I am preemptively tired from some stranger coming to talk to me like I am a particularly slow child for having a lukewarm opinion of how Joyce is acting. Like…what’s been going on is bringing out the worst in the real world too, eugh.
She cut and ran to go get Dorothy to tell her about the newspaper, the gloating ti Walky part was just a nice bonus.
If Dorothy was better at breaking up with Walky, she could’ve already been done with it.
She’s had plenty of practice.
Well put
Over the years this comic had been more and more realistic, so it makes this comedic moments feel odd and out of place. It just makes Joyce seem awful. I always liked how caring she was and grounded.
This is kinda a low point for the writing, it feels like we are dropping storylines in favor of the Joyce/Dorothy being pushed further ahead than its matured. I feel like it needed more time to cook before it was ready
It’s not just that it’s a comedic moment that feels out of place, it’s that it’s used to derail Dorothy and Walky having this conversation.
I’m not even really bothered by Joyce doing this. It makes her seem mean, but that’s not entirely out of character, so whatever.
It’s the choice to cut this conversation off at the start. We could have had a couple of strips and got some reaction, then had Joyce burst in to gloat and drag Dorothy off.
And also that Walky’s reaction suggests he’s not going to be really bothered by it either, though this might make him less friendly with Joyce.
No you see… This is a funny ha ha gag comic. We’ve just been building up since .. January? for this great punchline with nothing but slice of life and relationship drama strips!
Willis is going for that Andy Kaufman grade humor right here.
AH right, so, Dorothy… nik-nik… Joyce… therefore…
Joyce began as a deeply personal and relatable character for me. I saw a lot of myself in her reckoning with her twisted fundamentalist upbringing and her “righteous” anger.
She’s quickly become one of the LEAST relatable characters for me in recent months. Surprising to say the least.
Right? We’ve seen a level of cruelty from Joyce that feels wildly out of character.
And not even direct, just casual cruelty for her own self-satisfaction.
Yep. I get that she and Walky have a level of sniping banter that’s been pretty constant since the comic began. But this level of meanness, while funny in the abstract, is just way disproportionate to all that other teasing.
Also, as someone else just pointed out further down – Joyce goes to break up with Joe and is offered an open relationship as an option instead.
And then she goes to Dorothy and steals her away from Walky, completely shutting down any discussion of whether or not THEY would want an open relationship?
“I get to have both if I want (haven’t decided yet) but Dorothy can ONLY be MINE, ha ha Walky you LOSE.”
It’s a weird vibe.
Absolutely! This was my first thought. Although it also makes me wonder if she’s not considering open relationship with Joe. Maybe telling him they will talk later is to let him know why she doesn’t think it’s a good idea.
The fact that she wouldn’t be willing to share with Walky seems like a contraindication for a poly situation.
She’s in laser focus mode; hasn’t let herself process the discussion with Joe at all yet.
That new information has been shoved onto her mental “think about later” desk because it’s too much to deal with now, until the crisis is dealt with.
She’s reverted to status quo plus one major self-revelation –
Revelation: Dorothy and me together romance
Status quo: snipe at Walky.
Like, it’s how my brain works when there’s a lot of things happening at once; adrenaline kicks in and everything other than solving the immediate problem goes out the window.
Believe it or not, Joyce doesn’t get to have a say on Dorothy and Wally’s relationship, she is floating here -because- she doesn’t get to have a say, the tone is not serious, the moment is definitely intended as humorous, this is not Joyce going “Dorothy you can’t date walky, Walky go tf away.” This is Joyce needing Dorothy for a crisis situation she is just recently aware of, Becky at this point is the best possible option, most likely she is worried about word getting back about this and her sister and all of them at the protest, to her parents and to their old church, which has actual life threatening consequences, and could even endanger them with the school and the police. Sorry, it isn’t a two week rebound with a guy who is preternaturally predisposed to taking nothing seriously, since ye olde times of “It’s Walky”, it might actually be something important.
Okay but if all that’s as serious as you’re saying…why is she pausing to be so obnoxious about it here? How could Joyce, in her absolutely horrified frame of mind when leaving Joe’s room, be able to get so wacky for this panel?
Either she deserves sympathy for being distracted and freaked out about Becky/Jocelyne/her family, OR this is a fun and silly and goofy moment of levity. I don’t really vibe with a character who can switch that on and off so easily.
Have you never started laughing hysterically while freaking out?
Huh? No. I don’t think that’s actually common.
You’re not missing out on much. People get mad at you because they assume you’re enjoying whatever set you off, usually followed by distancing themselves from you as quickly as possible because now they think you’re a dangerous lunatic who’s going to hurt them at the first opportunity, and any attempt to convince them you’re not will automatically be seen as a twisted manipulation with the goal of getting their guard down.
Not to get all Doylist about things here, but from a narrative standpoint this helps the audience grasp the emotional realities of the situation better: Walky was always going to deflect, but Joyce being mean makes us consider his deeper emotions more seriously. Joyce being maniacal makes us acknowledge her heightened emotional state AND reminds us of their past dynamic.
I don’t see how an alternate situation where Dorothy spends a bunch of strips being earnest and Walky deflects would have been better in any way? And I don’t understand why anyone would expect Walky not to deflect? it’s his entire deal.
Same. Dorothy and Walky will have an ACTUAL talk later. This is Joyce in criss mode doing a gag on the way.
Do you think Walky takes it that way?
At the very least, even if they have a later talk, Joyce broke the news.
In theory yes, Joyce can’t do the dumping here. Dorothy could stick her head back and say “Don’t listen to her, I’m not breaking up with you”, but unless she does something, in practice Joyce just broke them up.
Also, if she’s doing this because Becky might found out before they tell her, that makes it even worse. It was one thing with Joe – they’d talked and were at a point where it made sense that Joyce had to think about a response to his offer anyway. To jump in and derail Dorothy admitting the cheating to Walky, who’s the most directly involved because she’s worried about Becky finding out she’s bi is really kind of rough.
If this is more of a serious panic attack about her parents finding out, then it’s more understandable, but the mockery doesn’t fit as easily.
what about walky pervious rudenss towards joyce in the past was that warranted.
It’s not really relevant to whether Dorothy and Walky are actually broken up now, is it?
And here people were speculating that Dorothy getting possessive might be the main obstacle to a polycule…
Guess not.
Joyce and Dorothy have both behaved jealously throughout the comic, but only Joyce has explicitly parsed those feelings as “it’s me versus him, and I want him to go way so I can have you to myself”, heh.
Yeah, but since the polycule really in question is a Joe-Joyce/Joyce-Dorothy thing, Joyce’s jealousy isn’t relevant. Joyce gets to have both of them to herself.
Dorothy’s jealousy gets in the way because she wouldn’t get Joyce to herself.
Walky being involved here was always a long shot.
You know I think the jury is still out on Dorothy being jealous or not. I was just amused by the reminder that Joyce is the one of the three who’s DEFINITELY demonstrated possessiveness.
I feel like the trauma flashback of Joyce being kidnapped when she went on her date are pretty strong indications that Dorothy isn’t going to share well.
We will see! It wasn’t the same situation, though, as being reassured that she’s someone Joyce wants just as much as she wants Joe.
Oh I believe Dorothy will bring this up eventually. A, “Wait. You expect me to co date you with Joe? A guy I have had animosity with for years? But you just sped ran dumping Walky for me?” That is, if Joyce is going to consider Joe’s solution. Joyce isn’t thinking further than, “Yoink, got a girlfriend!” and “shitshitshit damage control.” either for Becky and/or family.
This arc not getting off on a great start is enjoyable because it’s laying a ton of groundwork for future drama. What’s to say Walky goes to commiserate with Joe before Joyce has time to come back and have another chat with him? Will the guys just be done with their girlfriends? Will all four of them actually communicate together at the same time?
Joyce didn’t just dump Walky for Dorothy, she is not authorized for that. They will have an actual talk later.
She has previously demonstrated her authority over Dorothy’s love life in
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/05-saturdays-all-right-for-slighting/leisure/ and… wait, the following strips basically resolved the entire situation through teen horniness that was unrelated to Joyce’s arguments?
Oh, never mind then.
Maybe not, but she certainly left Walky thinking she did and Dorothy didn’t object.
As the Joyce giveth, so the Joyce taketh away.
”It’s a weird vibe.”
It’s weird enough to make me feel the more ambivalent and sensitive stuff with Joe was added later, and this is how Willis originally wrote the cheating plotline, just gleeful and uncaring.
Wait, you’re saying the original plotline would have been worse?
( boggles )
Also it’s not super clear if Walky understands this to be the truth, that it’s over again between him and Dorothy, for this specific reason, or if he thinks Joyce is just being Joyce and making the kind of possessive joke she has since the beginning of first semester. The last panel is a bit opaque and the way their conversation was cut off right at the outset suggests the posse that it will need to be revisited, possibly after some hilarious/hurtful misunderstandings.
If I wasn’t clear earlier, I agree with Jon
Yeah like, I don’t relate to the fundamentalist upbringing part but I related to her sense of righteous anger and honestly a lot to the stuff with her grappling with autism (autistic myself). There was a lot about her learning to deal with social realities that I found really interesting and I connected with.
Now she just, feels like a selfish person who does whatever the hell she wants in the moment without a care and it feels like she’s just getting away with it for the most part.
She’s essentially projecting her early “lol Atheists rule I’m a nihilist now” attitude on to how she now views romance.
This comments section is not a place of honor…
No highly esteemed deed is commemorated here… nothing valued is here. What is here was dangerous and repulsive to us.
This message is a warning about danger.
The danger is in a particular location… it increases towards a center…the center of danger is here… of a particular size and shape, and below us, in the comments further down.
The danger is still present, in your time, as it was in ours. The danger is to the body, and it can kill.
The form of the danger is an emanation of paragraphs.
The danger is unleashed only if you substantially disturb this place physically.
This place is best shunned and left uninhabited.
Oh boy nuclear warnings!
Not a place of honor, sure, but take a little pride – none of us could have built something this toxic on our own. This comment board isn’t Uranium, it’s Usanium. We built it together. Come let us continue our traditions and poison the minds of webcomic nerds for many decades to come.
The future speech that requires them to understand our language but not the concept of toxic waste. To also be advanced enough to have archaeologists but not scientists.
And no, I’m not complaining about this as an academic!
😀
The future speech isn’t actually a speech, it’s a summary of what they’re trying to figure out a way to communicate without them understanding our language.
I think it’s supposed to be written in a bunch of different languages, so that hopefully at least one of them is known by the hypothetical future archeologist.
thus making it highly attractive to linguists
The repetitiveness is intended to be more clear to future people they assume WON’T speak our language(s), but which will be studying snippets of our language to piece together and decode things, the same way we’ve operated with like, Ancient Egyptian.
“emanation of paragraphs”
Love it.
DISCLAIMER: The following is designed entirely as a bit, is entirely facetious, and in no way portrays any genuine expression of flirtation, arousal, The Hunger™, or any similar emotion. The user known as Taffy is in a fully dedicated, long-term, monogamous relationship with an existing woman who is real and just got her hair dyed Halloween colors. Viewer discretion is advised.
I love it when you people talk dirty. 🖤
Nookuler! The word is “nookuler”!
“what’s a Jib?”
I mean, obviously this is real, genuine flirtation because Taffy is experiencing The Hunger™ and cannot help theirself. I am so good at interpreting context clues.
That is my new Twitter bio, ever since I decamped for Bluesky
Here, have this internet.
Can Walky truly be trusted here? Who knows.
Walky dressed exactly like Asher that one time.
That should tell you EVERYTHING.
That Asher has a softer cartoon loving goofball side to him that was being crushed under his former mob gangster life that he’s struggling to escape?
Ok, but which episode of D&MM does he think is the best?
Y’know, that adds a kind of adorable extra layer to his relationship with Ethan. I mean, looking back that was definitely there but I hadn’t thought about the angle where he pushed that aspect of himself down in order to appear more “tough” to people.
I fucking hope not. What’s even the point of a cheating storyline if no one’s upset?
too early to claim that, we still have Becky’s reaction waiting for us!
But…
Neither Joyce nor Dorothny are dating Becky, the cheating doesn’t directly affect her, its just that Joyce likes Dorothy
I suspect Joyce will just invite Becky into the polycule to disarm that.
To establish that this was so likely to manifest that literally no one is surprised and one of the boyfriends even encouraged it to happen.
Is it really cheating if the two people making out are the only ones surprised by this development?
because it is being presented not as a cheating storyline but one of self growth and discovery for our mains, and as i have argued since the big bang occurred they are dealing with the consequence of thier cheating actions, just because joe/walky isnt getting upset does not mean that joyrothy are not facing consequences of the act of publically cheating.
What consequences? Sarah lightly scolding them? Joe is heading for pain but Joyce clearly doesn’t gaf. Walky is conveniently unbothered by the events. Danny called Dorothy out that should be a shitty person for the actions she’s taken and if he rips into her does she even care? Clearly not enough to heed his “Chesting is not a bi thing its a jerk thing” warning so what? I would be beyond surprised if Becky responded with anything more than a hell yeah
And that’s the most annoying thing about all of this, you can write bi characters getting together with same sex partners without starting them off as cheating on their partners. We ALL would’ve been fine with Joyce and Dorothy getting together at some point because it was the most obvious combo since Harley and Ivy. But starting it like this is just reinforcement of garbage stereotypes about bi people being unfaithful
HOW IS THE POSSIBILITY OF LOSING HER FINANCIAL SECURITY OR THE POSSIBILITY OF CULT VIOLENCE NOT A CONSEQUENCE OF THEIR CHEATING.
1) because if these girls were single, and thus not cheating, they’d still be facing that possibility is the main one
2) because folks (like me!) who advocate for Joyce to face “consequences ” actually want “specific consequences ” rather than just “anything negative ” to happen.
you and i will never see #1 the same, i think we can agree.
yes them being single in that moment doenst make those not possible consequences. but that doesnt remove the reality that they were cheating when they did it.
there are about 450things that we could se would be different about the lead up to this moment that could have lead to the same consequences, but every one of those different thing could just as easily lead to them not front page kissing. and then we have an entire new hypothetical sequence of events that the only way to know what might happen would be to have willis write them. so to me we have to accept tje context willis has provided us.
we have a causal chain that leads from them cheating on the front page to the current situation, willis didnt write the story with them being single. he wrote it with them seating and it leading to this. and i will finish with this i have a blast discussing al this with everyone, and to anyone whose post i have lisunderstood i apologixe, and to anyone whose posts i have replied to if you have been hurt by my words you have my ablosute and unreserved apologies. i don’t like to cause harm to anyone ever, and to do so unintentionally is still wrong of me and ido regret doing so. and please understand my comments are meant to be either funny informative or specialtive, and if it could be read in a manner that seems hurtful 99% of the time it is unintentional or a typo.
OK, I’ll admit legitimately being confused you don’t see the logic that I, and Dot in another chain, are working on, so let me try and articulate it.
Carol wouldn’t go on the warpath if Joyce cheated on Joe with, say, Tristan. Sure, she might give Joyce a lecture about faithfulness and the proper role of a woman in a relationship, but it wouldn’t challenge her worldview and threaten her percieved control over Joyce. Carol would go on the warpath specifically because she saw Joyce doing something that proves she’s not cishet, and is thus slipping out from under Carol’s thumb. Essentially, she’s a piece of shit.
And so her being a piece of shit means that her doing bad things to Joyce hits *way* differently. It would mean that the punishment did not in any way shape or form fit the crime- because the part Carol would be mad about isn’t the part that’s bad behavior on Joyce’s part and, by corollary, Carol wouldn’t give a crap about the part of Joyce’s behavior that is bad behavior, the cheating.
It’s like if Bob is embezzling from a charity, but he refuses to sleep with his boss who then kills him for it. No one’s going to say “Bob deserved to die for embezzling”, and no one’s going to think his boss was justified in shooting him when it’s clear they did so in a jealous rage and were, in fact, also embezzling.
no i see that as being absolutely possible and agree that should the target of the cheating changes carol reaction changes, no arguments, 100% agree. wha t i have said is that no matter the hypothetical we discuss as a means of analyzing what has happenned what specific thing causes what reaction, it does not change what event have occured, and the facts of the events that have occurred as a whole from kissing in the protest to is while a result of many thing one of which is that it is an act of cheating.
Phew brief hijinks. Just to give us a breather before the real drama
I can’t stop laughing holy crap… Joyce is so deliciously petty
I mean, amusing strip, and good to resolve this part of it all fairly quickly since even if Walky was going to be hurt by it, he’s absolutely the sort that would bury any hurt feelings under a pile of self-deprecation and comedic coping mechanism that are totally healthy and not going to result in a mental breakdown in 2-3 years…
…but man, Joyce is just acting like an asshole here. I get she’s in a rush for reasons, and we needed a bit of a comedy break, but this is not going to help her with the Joyce-haters…
Honestly, given that we saw Raidah earlier and she is both overtly transactional and doesn’t lie, if Walky needs a rebound from his rebound she’d probably be down to try and use his tenuous connection to the Dean and he’d probably find being openly used and disregarded more pleasant than Dorothy’s I DON’T WANT YOU ACTUALLY I LOVE YOU ACTUALLY NO I DON’T JUST GO DATE SOMEONE ELSE LEAVE ME ALONE NO WAIT ACTUALLY DATE ME NO WAIT ACTUALLY FUCK OFF LOSER BYYYYYYE routine.
I mean that last part was Joyce not Dorothy.
there are some times in life that, when you don’t push back against something that somebody else is saying, you’re providing silent assent, whether you want to or not. This was deffo one of those cases for Dorothy.
Dorothy has been comedically dragged away in a,physically implausible way. This was not a drama strip.
Sje literally did not have time to say anything.
Joyce was able to come back and get a last gloat in. Dorothy could at least shout something from off panel.
It’s okay Nada, Willis will never actually let anything be Dorothy’s fault.
Except all the stuff that is.
I think it would be hard to make as many things be Dorothy fault as you probably want.
He has to balance for the people who won’t let anything not be her fault
If Dark Joyce is here, could the Head Alien and SEMME be far behind?
I don’t always read cartoon facial expressions correctly but it looks like Dorothy enjoyed that?
Saved her the trouble, at least.
I think it’s just the Joyce kiss.
Lately it looks to me like any time Joyce touches or flirts with Dorothy, Dorothy gets this same dazed smile, like she can’t quite believe this is happening but she’s pretty sure she likes it.
Like, the last panel here: https://www.dumbingofage.com/2025/comic/book-16/01-not-so-smooth-criminals/stillwaiting/
First panel here? https://www.dumbingofage.com/2025/comic/book-16/01-not-so-smooth-criminals/hushesandmumbles/
Second panel here? https://www.dumbingofage.com/2025/comic/book-16/01-not-so-smooth-criminals/thetruth/
I think I might be stretching a little far to find the connection.
It’s not just since the reveal, she has also reacted this way to Joyce being overtly physical in a supposed platonic fashion – the strip where joyce is smushing their faces together comes to mind.
The strip in question: https://www.dumbingofage.com/2024/comic/book-14/03-trystin-in-the-wind/detox/
It’s real.
I think it’s being in love.
pretty sure that’s exactly the expression I get when my girlfriend touches or flirts with me tbh
Oh god the brainrot is so bad my brain autocompleted to “but when I do, I prefer Dos Esquis.”
Think about it: Dorothy now has HORNS. She’s getting the devils. (or she’s been corrupted by Joyce).
I’ve always felt like a huge amount of the hate various things in this comic get is because the comic will often mix in serious moments with semi-cartoonish comedy, and people will treat the latter as if it’s the former.
Never have I been so vindicated lol.
You’re so right
It feels tonally really terrible to be honest. Like, I’ve seen stuff that oscillates between the tones well, I just think this particular page is doing it poorly. I don’t think it’s very funny.
I’m reserving judgement until the next couple strips because Walky is the type to not react in front of Dorothy but if both the guys are actually chill about the cheating I’m going to be extremely fucking mad. Where is the messy drama I was promised?
Agreed. Lol
I think the last strip lingering on the “David Willis Complicated Emotions Watery Eyes” kind of tells you everything you need to know. This strip having maybe the most stone-faced dead-inside looking Walky we’ve ever seen does too.
That’s sad drama! Not messy drama!
This feels like cope, tbh.
For Joe in his latest appearance, I think it’s clear he’s hurt/conflicted.
For Walky in this appearance, I could see it breaking either way. I do think one possibility has always been that walky’s not fully committed to this current rebound with Dorothy. So he may indeed just shrug it off.
Or it could affect him in some way. If so, he’s less likely than Joe to wear that on his sleeve though. This is a guy with an A+ in suppressing his feelings.
I mean, I said it the other day, but just narratively speaking, if the first two people told are cool with it, the third will DEFINITELY NOT BE. So I was kinda hopeful that Becks would be less devastated than others expect, but I’m losing that confidence.
(On the other hand, the fact that Joyce and Dotty are so certain she will be upset pushes my mind in the opposite direction.)
The issue is that Becky, and everyone else, are external to the situation. They have social stakes in their friends’s affairs (haw), but they’re not directly involved. If none of the parties directly involved take issue, then everyone external to the relationships come across as histrionic, and like they’re sticking their noses into something that doesn’t need it.
Yeah, like, Becky isn’t part of this relationship! I wanted to see at least a -little- more hurt from the people…actually in the equation.
I think it’d be a cool subversion if they went to her, freaked out about her reaction, and she’s not bothered by it or congratulates them on joining the Women Are Rad club.
For all of the lingering jealousy plot threads that Becky has seen,in recent years we’ve almost exclusively seen her as a loyal and loving partner to Dina.
Maybe there could even be a “…seriously? I’m not STILL into you, Joyce, sheesh, get over yourself” (at least, as with Joe, on the surface. Maybe she buries the other feelings and doesn’t show them yet)
This would be even worse. Why the fuck is Sarah the only person who’s shown even one percent of an issue with all of this?
Well. The part I left out was my other prediction, that either Becky or Dina would ask “how did Joe take the news” and one or both of them also berate Jorothy for their actions.
But then I deleted that part because I figured I’d get criticized for proposing a story where two lesbians tell two bi women that the REAL victim was a hetero man. Idk, I just don’t have the energy to be called a homophobe yet again.
Hello from a fellow victim of the internalized hypervigilance that comes from the intersection of social media and identitarian political discourse.
And I am bi…
*finger guns*
It’s gonna be fine though, no one is really going to call them bisexual after a while. At best we’ll get “Sapphic.”
The bulk of the comments will treat Walky and Joe as stepping stones into their lesbian journey, because of course they didn’t actually *Like* them, that’s why they treated them like garbage after the kiss!
The hetero normative brainwashing of society made them enjoy the weenuses… Weeni? And the pure womanly power of their True Love dissolved it like a Thanos snap.
*Dabs at the sarcasm with a paper towel.*
stop shadowboxing, it’s weird
But even if Becky or Dina ask, the answer is “Joe took it well. Said he’d expected it and even nudged Dorothy in that direction. We’re talking about a poly thing.”
Which leaves any further berating seeming histrionic as Dot said above. (Same with Sarah, if she keeps her previous stance now that we know Joe’s reaction.)
Because these are two week relationships that have been “cheated” (like, four or five weeks if you total the first round of Dorothy and Walky dating from three or four months prior), the girls just realised they had reciprocated romantic feelings for one another yesterday, and none of the main cast are such assholes that they’d hold a grudge about it? Well, Becky remains to be seen, her entire cope around Joyce not being into her was that Joyce was straight, so it isn’t someone being nosey or histrionic, it is in fact Joyce’s closest childhood friend who’s probably had a crush on her for over half her life, at this point. If unrequited feelings weren’t a big deal then we wouldn’t have this entire trope in romantic literature.
Anyway I get pretty tired of the massive hostility and demonisation of two teenagers in early days relationships who kissed each other a bunch over one day who are now trying to address that the next day, this isn’t degrassi it is a comedy webcomic, sir.
Putting quotes around “cheating” as if we haven’t now seen Dorothy, Joyce, AND Joe all acknowledge that it was/is, in fact, cheating.
There’s no getting through to some, even if Willis drew some Regular Showesque God of cheating coming down and saying that they cheated and must play some game to get out of cosmic cheating prison there will be some who say it’s hardly cheating because they do not want to accept that Joyce and Dorothy did in fact do a pretty rotten thing to Walky and Joe.
How about we concede it’s cheating but contend that cheating isn’t always so bad?
Cheating definitely exists on a spectrum and this is on the milder end of the spectrum, but the reactions are low even for that.
Larger point for me though is that from a story telling point of view, if you want to do a cheating arc, commit to it. Don’t make the cheating so mild and the reactions of the people cheated on so mild that the audience winds up arguing if there was cheating at all.
no i do not readiny thing that is not here, (or periodically on bluesky) so i do notknow if willis explicitly said this is a cheating stroryline, and if not a cheating storyline but a mains journey of self discovery storyline where cheating has unfortunatley concerned, Would that framing change your opinion?
i get that for many that cheating is trauma (having only ever been in 2 serious relatioships one lasting only 10 months and the other is nearing 22 years and counting i have not experienced personally being cheated on but i have helped friends who have had it happen), and for many that seeing cheating not result in the destruction of the relationship for the cheater may feel retraumatizing, and minimizing of the harms the endured. to those i do say i am sorry you had to experience that pain, and state pain of all kind sucks, and i wish all can live their lives free of pain.
but i do not believe this narrative was a cheating focused narrative, if so we would be seeing more of the reaction and the mess. This isnt a cheating narrative this is a characters self discovery narrantive it has been since day one. and it is willis’ choice to make it so. i will argue to the heat death of the universe regarding that they are facing the consequences of cheating with the events that are occurring, and those events for me fit 100% with the rhythm tone and world of the story.
Mmmm. I have some thoughts about that but at this point I don’t think they’re worth getting into.
Sarah has not read the strips where Walky teased Joyce about being gay for Dorothy, nor Joe talking to Dorothy about their, um, gaiety?
and her reaction makes sence given the context she is aware of
This is what I wanted but that just makes it “everyone is okay with the situation except for Sarah (and Joe who we will see the payoff in 2.5 years time, and even then that’s just sadness which is inherently boring to dwell on—coming from the place of someone who is sad all the damn time.)
Like… the most interesting reactions for me are fizzled out and dead in the water. Also, if Joyce DOES go for the poly option, she robbed Dorothy of that opportunity here and if I were Dorothy I would be rightly pissed that that conversation was stolen from me.
Literally Joyce does not get to have a say in Dorothy and Walky’s relationship and instead of grasping that even in the comments nobody has felt the dororhy-walky breakup warranted any thought because Wally just doesn’t do drama, getting tired of the take spinning it as Joyce destroying the option of a poly situation for Dorothy and walky instead of Joyce correctly surmising that there was no need to waffle here in the face of more pressing concerns because walky has never shown rage or possessiveness as character traits.
I am sure if Dorothy wants poly she will approach Walky about it after whatever, right now she doesn’t even know that’s an option and they probably would have just broken up.
“Also, if Joyce DOES go for the poly option, she robbed Dorothy of that opportunity here and if I were Dorothy I would be rightly pissed that that conversation was stolen from me.”
Maybe we’ll be lucky and this will come up, because that’s juicy, lol.
Dorothy should definitely be pissed at Joyce right now, but I suspect she’s too infatuated to realize that.
no reason to be pissed once context is known though. especially if this is closely related the joyces family trauma as i believe (and less so if its the becky stuff, it does become less palpatable of forgivabvle to me if the panic is becky based and not “i may lose my finantial packing/there is a cult my mom belongs to that has repeatedly put mine and my friend lives in danger and cost me one of them” based)
Plenty of reason to be pissed regardless of context. Joyce may despise Walky and even have reason to do so. Dorothy doesn’t. Dorothy presumably wanted to let him know without hurting him more than necessary. She didn’t want Joyce to jump in and proclaim victory and claim her as a prize.
Maybe forgivable if it’s an actual PTSD driven breakdown. Coming to get her to deal with the trauma is understandable given context, but how she did it is not.
i guess i should have phrased that more from first person view, as if this exact sequence of events was hoopening in my life and i then learned of the events i wasnt not there for i would be very forgiving.
Jeff nails it.
Joyce doesn’t care about Walky.
Dorothy cares about Walky.
Joyce cars about Dorothy.
Joyce is needlessly cruel to Walky.
She VERY EASILY could have said “Hey, there’s an emergency, I need Dorothy” and left, but she went the extra mile to be cruel to somebody that Dorothy cared for. Joyce is being insanely selfish, only caring about her own wants and needs.
What anybody else wants or needs, including Dorothy, is completely irrelevant to her.
Thing is all that would do is hurt Becky’s relationship with Dina… which would actually be interesting but wouldn’t actually provide any real backlash because the backlash would be from Joyce being attached to women not thr fact that Joyce can’t be trusted in any relationship ever again.
I know right, Walky getting to get angry about something for once in his life was literally the only thing I was looking forward to about this storyline, are we really getting that sidelined to worry about fucking Becky? I love Becky, she’s a fun character, but **really**?
Like, I’ve been in love with my best friend who was into girls just not into me, but if she cheated on her boyfriend with a chick I absolutely would be offended if she was more concerned about my feelings than the dude she claimed to love at some point in time.
[If this ends up being about Carol or Hank and NOT Becky, I will eat my words and be more understanding, but so far everything I’ve kind of thought would be lame af/boring if it happened has happened and I’m kind of feeling bummed/weird about it.]
At this rate, I presume Becky is going to be fine with it too. If Joyce made someone upset, then she wouldn’t be a perfect cinnamon roll, and god knows we can’t have that.
The irony is that the comments tonight seem to be turning on Joyce and I think part of that is because so far she’s faced no repercussions for acting like a smug and selfish jerk, and not just to Walky. This could be intentional. I think Willis could be building to something. A few stern words from Sarah seems like pretty weak fallout.
Or, and please take this how you like, but it could be that kissing someone who isn’t your 2-week fresh boyfriend as a teenager just isn’t that big a deal, especially if you talk to your boyfriend about it within 24 hours, and that actually the larger priority here for everyone involved is making sure all the kids can stay at school, and that their lives and/or the lives of their loved ones aren’t freshly threatened after having been kidnapped by psychopathic fathers a couple months prior. I have had trauma even a tenth of what Joyce and Dorothy have been through and even contemplating having to be in that situation, after nearly ten years of distance from the triggering event, was enough to paralyse me for days. Really impressed at Joyce’s adrenaline if this is what she’s worried about.
You’re making sense. Is that allowed here?
Seriously. Where is smug Joyce? I see panicking Joyce.
I mean you weren’t promised anything, people just speculate what they think it’s going ti happen.
I consistently wish I could upvote your comments.
Samesies.
I don’t think Willis ever said anything about mess, did they (if they did,I’d have some questions too lmao)? And commenters are just known to be wrong. I’m one of the people who was ok with/didn’t care about the cheating because surely the fallout would be interesting – and I do think it’s extremely weird Willis doesn’t seem to want to deal with any of that (aside from a lecture from Sarah).
It’s probably smart to reserve judgment though. I won’t, but it makes sense. I sort of think we’ll just immediately cut to Joyce/Dorothy but we’ll see.
I feel like the natural pacing of this webcomic can make folks a little impatient about certain plot points too
It does, but that’s not really what’s been going on here.
We’re not seeing responses to the cheating pushed off by the pacing. We’re seeing them fizzle.
It’s not like we’re still waiting for Joe to find out and be angry about it. He’s not. We know he’s not.
Now, we’ve got at least a glimpse of Walky’s reaction and it’s basically a shrug. (In the last panel he’s more upset, but that seems directly aimed at Joyce coming back to laugh at him, than to being dumped by proxy.)
i have litigate my opposing point of view to you above, but tldr context matters, it is nota butterfly effect that the current events are 100% a consequence of them publically cheating. it’s just not as messy as some would like.
If Dorothy and Joyce, single and free as the wind, had kissed at the protest, essentially the same series of events vis a vis being outed by the paper would still have happened. That’s not consequences for the cheating, it’s consequences of the kissing. Thus far, the sum total of interpersonal conflict that has arisen as a result of the *cheating* aspect of it is that Sarah got mad. That’s it. Joe just ended up having a conversation he was probably always gonna have a little earlier. All the real material consequences have been external and adjacent to what Joyce and Dorothy actually did *wrong*.
the fact it could have aslo had the same consequences if theyy had been songle in that moment DOES NOT remove the fact that in that moment they cheated and are facing consequences for it. to inglore the fact of what has happened doesnt mean they didnt happen.
as i have said many times, just because the consequences are nt what you wanted or expected doesnt mean they are not still consiquences of the action that took place
I mean yeah? It does? For the reasons I stated?
only in this discussion. in the events being preesnted in the canon of the strip, their being outed on the front of the paper is a consequence of their cheating. we can discuss how events may have happened in a literal infinite # of options, but those hypotheticals do not change the presentation of event as they happen in the strip. in the strip the consequence of them cheating is possible familial violence/loss of financial security. there is a palatable desire for them to face consiquences in thier relationships in the immediacy (we may still get some of those, they may lose friendships, joe may still ( i do not think so) turn negative in his reaction, walky could go deep into a heel turn. but in the immediacy they are confronting the possible lon gterm life altering consequences, and rightfully so if i am asked (if this isthe becky panic some are predicting then i am completely of base and will have to re-evaluate then)
As I said yesterday, this is a fundamental misunderstanding of what I (and I believe many other so-called relationship paladins) mean when we talk about consequences of cheating.
I’ve basically accepted that you don’t get that and I don’t know how to explain it so that you will, but I’d appreciate it if you didn’t keep telling me I was wrong about what I mean.
Also, that has nothing to do with what I was talking about in that post. Even if I accepted your framing of “consequences of cheating”, my point was that the reaction to the last couple of strips has not been that they’re delayed but that some specific consequence are fizzling out. There could still be others, but Joe isn’t mad about it. Walky’s reaction seems to be a shrug. Other stuff could happen, but these don’t seem to be.
actually i don’t get how it didnt click for me earlier but your comments here have gotten through, and i apolgize for my misunderstanding. i will simply (attempt at least) to say my read of a lot of your comments have been more of the denial of what is currently occurring being a consequence of them cheating.
and for that i am sorry, cause yes i do see that you are commenting far more about the desired consequences than whether or not what is occuring is a direct consequence.
I think you relationships paladins seem to believe your experiences are universal. Like, if someone I’d been dating for a few weeks kissed someone they liked better than me, I’d be WAY more likely to go into a “didn’t I do it for you” FKA twigs spiral than be angry or feel betrayed. I’d be more upset about the fact that they liked someone else more than the cheating of like… a few kisses and waiting less than a day to tell me.
I think this will likely be what happens to Walky! That he’ll slowly go into a “why am I never good enough in relationships?” mini spiral that he tries to keep covered up.
And this IS a consequence! Making someone you care about feel really sad and go into a spiral is, to me, WORSE THAN MAKING THEM ANGRY!
Like there’s that Dorothy Parker poem:
ONCE, when I was young and true,
Someone left me sad—
Broke my brittle heart in two;
And that is very bad.
Love is for unlucky folk,
Love is but a curse.
Once there was a heart I broke;
And that, I think, is worse.
And that’s how I feel after basically any breakup where I do the breaking up!
ya think?
Yea, really disappointed that this didn’t get anything from Walky
Really gonna be annoyed if Becky is also super reasonable
*points emphatically at the last panel of yesterday’s strip*
There’s going to be drama. Its just not of the “OH NO MY GIRLFRIEND’S BEEN SEDUCED BY HER BEST FRIEND AND IS BI NOW” variety.
That’s not the kind of drama I’m asking for and I’d thank you not to put words in my mouth. I want at least Wally to get just a little bit mad about how shitty Dorothy has been to him, not just with this, but with alarming consistency.
i have a suspicion wolky doesnt get as mad because he had joyce have had this antagonistic but not really frenamies going since the early days of the strip. he strikes me as being self aware enough to know that he has a hand in how joyce treats him. he cannot control how she has reacted to his needling and such.
Ok but I’m not asking him to get mad at Joyce, I’m asking him to get mad at Dorothy.
I’m asking anyone to feel anything but quiet acceptance.
i get that we want that but walky strike me far more the type to get mad on someone else behalf more than his own, and he has been shown to lean hard on the go with the flow type. we may want him to get mad, but is it really believable given the history of his character for him to do so
Well I’ve brought up a bunch that Joe and Walky both suffer from low self esteem and feeling that they don’t deserve better. Which is really sad to watch play out.
I have been been in an identical situation to Walky once (someone I was dating for a month got with someone they’d been crushing on for years and waited a day to tell me).
I have been in a very similar situation several other times (someone I was dating/otherwise involved with broke it off to be with someone they considered the ‘love of their life’).
The assumption that anger SHOULD be the primary emotion are driving me insane.
In ZERO of those situations was anger a stronger emotional response than sadness for me.
In two out of three of those situations the response I let the person see was “aw dang, I’m a little sad but good for you” because what were they supposed to do when they realized they loved someone else more than me, and that person was a realistic relationship option? Was I supposed to be upset that they didn’t wait 24 hours to break up with me first? That would have made that situation literally 0% less painful for me.
In one case I did say “why weren’t you honest about your feelings earlier?” in a slightly angry way during the breakup. In another, months later I got really upset and was like “why did you keep saying [things that made me think the relationship was more serious than it was] over a period of MONTHS?”
But in this case, it’s pretty obvious why Dorothy wasn’t honest about her feelings earlier: she was lying to herself. And she repeatedly said to Walky “i’m having emotions but I’m deliberately ignoring them” and Walky was aware of this and actually teased her about it! in their last interaction!
Basically I feel like the self-identified relationship paladins are saying that visible anger immediately upon an emotional blow is the only realistic/valid reaction and that’s just not… how ALL humans are. A lot of humans are like that, but not all of them!
If this doesn’t end up causing Walky to be sad or contemplative then yeah, it’ll be weird. But why is Immediate Reaction that is Explicitly Anger the only thing that’s treated as a valid response?
Why isn’t “suppressed Sadness, something that Walky has explicitly said out loud multiple times is his coping mechanism” considered a valid consequence here that anyone should care about?
Because the consequence so far is squarely on the victim and not the cheater. We want these characters to express in a way that makes it clear to the cheaters that this thing they did sucks. Maybe we will get to that. But we haven’t gotten it yet. And we keep jumping past opportunities to get it.
So for you a work of fiction upholding your moral standards by precisely punishing people you see as wrongdoers in a specific way you feel satisfying is more important than accurately portraying emotions that real people could have?
I think that’s the disconnect here: people who read a work primarily to see their moral impulses reinforced, and people who read a work to see interesting characters respond in different ways that are thematically or emotionally resonant to their CHARACTERS, rather than to an external morality.
Nope. You have no idea what my morals are.
Stop psychoanalyzing me. I want confrontation cuz I find it interesting. I relate a lot to Walky and a lot of his struggles with race and never feeling like you’re good enough and hiding behind humor speak to me. I wanted Walky and Dorothy’s break up to drag something out of him and for them to have an interaction and not a one sided drive by. I don’t fucking care about the “moral standards”. I want the “characters” to have standards on how they’re being cheated on instead of “welcome to shrug city”. It’s super uninteresting to me and a waste of potential of the one thing I find interesting about Joyce and Dorothy dating cuz I find them horrendously boring.
You said, SPECIFICALLY that your problem was “Because the consequence so far is squarely on the victim and not the cheater. We want these characters to express in a way that makes it clear to the cheaters that this thing they did sucks.”
To me, that sounds like you’re prioritizing two things:
1) wanting consequences to fall on the cheaters and
2) wanting the cheaters to “know that what they did sucks”
over everything else.
I think the characters have CLEARLY shown that they both know that having to break up with their boyfriends will hurt them, and that it sucks. They also CLEARLY know that kissing before the breakup was wrong.
So I don’t understand how you think the cheaters “knowing what they did sucks” hasn’t been satisfied.
And I don’t understand how I should interpret “wanting consequences to fall on the cheaters” as anything other than that you specifically want a character who did something you feel is wrong to experience more pain because you think that “feels” more in alignment with the kind of stories you enjoy.
God dumbiverse joyces extremely petty hatred of walky is literally never not funny lmao, like it so easily could’ve felt like a forced subversion of there old continuity selves dynamic like a lot of these kind of things tend to, but it always manages to feel both organic and fucking hilarious each and every time it’s comes up
David Walkerton, World Champion of Shrugging.
I know we like to make jokes and facetious quips at the quality of the moral characters of these protagonists, but can I just say, without a hint of irony or humor,
Role model, much?
If you’re gonna steal someone’s girlfriend, you had better cackle at them like a cartoon witch.
maybe Willis should just approach this like Randall Munroe when he says something like this up and front:
“I am a CARTOONIST. If you follow my advise on safety around nuclear materials you probably deserve whatever happens to you.”
https://youtu.be/MYHCFyLdyDg?si=NFTrEP8LsVknA1-G
Reminded me of this.
Which one’s supposed to be the role model?
being honest walky and joe are great examples right now, joe is loving and patient and compassionate and honest. walky is basically a stoic, understanding he only can control himself and his actions, and this moment is one he anticipated appening in the end, and in the moment is not allowing his emotions to cause him to act in a manne rhe may latter regret. and i think those are are admirabletrait we need more of
joyce is my role model bc i wanna be that much of a bingo one day
i wish you success!
I guess I’m happy about this because it validates mine and many comments opinion that Dorothy x Walky 2.0 was really a meaningless rebound. He probably needs time alone at least that’s what I want for him.
I honestly really want that for him too. He may have been alone during the timeskip but he also had Lucy clearly buddying up to him with the hopes of dating him. Walky needs to be off the market for a while and just enjoy life.
As much as I want the return of Garbage Skow, I agree. Walky needs to be single for rn. Maybe go befriend Ethan and Asher.
Hm. Walky-Ethan-Asher threesome? I know you said “befriend,” but there’s befriend and then there’s… BeFriend.
I wish I could agree but unfortunately due to the pacing of the comic Walky can’t be “single for a while” because I’m certain only a month will pass in the next decade.
I just want bro to have a real friend dawg!😭 I don’t even care if it’s Asher! Maybe Jennifer has become cool again, maybe. I really just need at least one more person he can talk to that’s actually interested in his well being without sabotaging his relationship because they decided they wanna fuck him now.
Walky absolutely deserves friends he isn’t currently trying to fuck. I agree.
honestly i see this as an oppoutrtunlity for him to bond with his sister, as unless willis is really wanting to upset people for the sake of it, she isnt someone he is trying to bone.
Walky has issues that are far beyond mere girl trouble. If anything, the romance stuff has been a reason for him not to confront those issues for a while.
Dude has been an absolute master of taking all of his Mike-shaped issues and burying them under 500 pounds of concrete, but eventually that foundation is gonna crack…
What the man needs is an interesting character arc
It was meaningless, but it’d be great if he had a problem with being jerked around.
For SURE it was a meaningless rebound. It was Dorothy trying to manage and soothe her feelings with Walky, and it was Walky being too passive and apathetic to care about much more than the sex and company.
Hopefully we see Walky start trying to take direction and initiative in his life again after this.
I think it was more than just that for Walky. He also cares about Dorothy. Always has.
I feel like he went back to her because she seemed to need him, which was then derailed when he started to realize almost at once there was something else going on.
It was basically just done to make Dorothy getting with Joyce feel more dramatic. As is a lot of things thats been happening in this storyline.
Willis changed the pacing of the DoJo arc in the middle of this storyline, long after Walky and Dorothy got back together, so there may originally have been more plans for that relationship.
…that was just cruel. Walky deserved better than that.
Note: it was funny, though. Lol
Agreed. I adore how despite all the terrible people and situations they have encountered together, Walky and Joyce remain united by that most unbreakable of bonds … sheer unadulterated pettiness.
Does he?
yes in the same inherent way we all deserve to be treated respectfully. has he made his bed so to speak with how he has previously interaccted with joyce also yes. 2 thnags can be true
Oh this tonal shift is gonna hit like a TRUCK for archive readers (complimentary)
I’ve been reading it daily and still feel shortchanged for not getting an isekai out of this strip.
Yeah. Like. Joyce went from the most irritating fundie to this in like what four months? Five? Six?
well that was easy
actual laughing loud here xD
I’m not on the ‘cheating makes Joyce the worst person to ever live train’, but I DO think this specifically might be the most unambiguously dickish thing Joyce has ever done…
…that said it’s also very funny so I still approve.
yeah I winced but also laughed
Same thought here haha
People who hate on Joyce for this particular move? So valid but it’s too funny for me to be mad
I think the “dickishness” of it would be blunted by removing the last panel, tbh. I don’t mind the laugh panel but it does turn it from 100% goofy resolution to 60-40 goofy-spiteful/petty. I don’t think people would be complaining about Joyce being “evil” without the last panel
Yeah, if the last panel was gone, I’d have way less qualms with today’s strip tbh. It’s like almost an anti punchline, the second to last panel of Dorothy just getting yoinked would be funny af on its own.
Sorry. Third to last. I cannot count tonight. The last two panels just don’t hit for me like leaving it on the third to last would’ve lol
I disagree. Without the last panel I find it’s considerably less funny, and giving Walky the last line makes it feel more dour, which in turn actually makes Joyce look even worse. Like that spiteful laugh is so absurd that it takes away any sense of seriousness, which is good, I think you need to play this moment for for dark laughs and commit to it fully or it just doesn’t work.
I think the most dickish thing she’s ever done is when she drew those dicks on those doors that one time.
You win.
That wasn’t her though. That was the Whiteboard Dingdong Bandit. Can’t blame Joyce for that.
Here sir, your Internet!
In the other universe, Joyce shot her own clone in the face for having sex.
I feel like everyone needs to be reminded of this, a lot, throughout the coming book.
No. Dumbing of Age is not a sequel. It is a standalone story.
Yeah well there were clones and aliens and goddamn literal resurrection in that universe, and Willis has said in commentaries that LOADS of stuff in the Walkyverse was weird and had weird ethics/morals and was HIGHLY influenced by their own (not yet deconstructed) indoctrination.
Comparing shit from the first three years of the old universe to this current one as if it invalidates the stakes and setting this time around is just absurd.
John looking at your comment I realize my last part was responding to Sajuuk-Khar and not you, so I apologize if that first message was unclear about that. I don’t mean to claim you were conflating the two universes.
I love gremlin Joyce so much.
God, right? Gave me a triangle smile of my own.
I feel bad for both Joe and Walky.
Literally Joyce to Joe:
“We’ll talk, okay? Later? I promise. Gotta go.”
You can’t become a threesome with just a twosome. Now, they can go ahead and discuss squeezing her between them like a miracle whip sandwich.
To be clear: Joyce is the miracle whip in this simile?
No. Not at all. Look at Dorothy, Smallmoon. Look at Dorothy with her stupid adorable doinkers and her complete lack of combobulation and her nebbishy sub-ness. Look at her non-Newtonian physics every time she is in distress.
Dorothy is the miracle whip. Or the marshmallow crème. Or the Pop-Tart filling. She is going to get topped within an inch of her dumb nerd life, and that’s just facts.
Why? Joe is somewhere between “cool with this” and “all is proceeding according to my master plan” depending on how charitably you interpret his line about “nudging” Dorothy, and Walky has just been vaguely unpleasant ever since the timeskip but not enough to be interesting.
“cool” with this
Y’all are INVESTED in Joe being miserable despite literally everything he’s said in this storyline to the contrary, huh. I wonder why that is
maybe some people understand that the words that come out of a character’s mouth are not always 100% of their pure unfiltered inner thoughts
maybe you could learn how to disagree with people without heavily implying everyone who doesn’t agree with your reading is a bad person in real life
probably not though i guess huh
It feels less like people are seeing the hidden meaning and more like they’re writing fanfiction about how they want the story to go. And I get the impulse, I’m a big fanfictionposter, but that’s all it is. Joe actively wanted Joyce to sleep with Dorothy, and we’ve seen that through his words and his actions.
Saying that he’s secretly sad is the same as me saying he’s been planning a threesome with Dorothy and Joyce for months and working on a supervillain-ish manipulation plan to do it. You can read his line about “nudging” Dorothy that way, and it’s very fun to do so, but that’s not actually what the story is, and neither is “Joe is secretly tormented and when he says he’s cool with a polycule it’s a lie”
Okay but at present there’s no reason to assume that, especially since looking back in the archive supports what he was saying. Y’all are literally disregarding the text for what? To give Joe a reason to be wronged by those bad bad women he’s already forgiven in so many words?
And yeah so the thing is I know how to do that perfectly well, when the reason for the disagreement is not blatant misogyny.
Go back one (1) day.
Note Joyce immediately running off, stopping to give Joe some mild reassurance without explaining anything, and then two silent panels zooming in on Joe.
My interpretation of this is that its showing Joe’s isolation, him feeling left out an maybe anxious. Because… what’s the point of those panels otherwise? If he’s fine, then he’d make a quip like Walky is doing here.
He’s not. He’s just staring at where Joyce used to be. Unmoving. Silent.
Looking ornamental.
There’s a difference between “anxious about this conversation being interrupted” (which we, as the omniscient readers, understand is happening for any of several extremely valid reasons that Joyce needs to address quickly) and “secretly martyring himself on the altar of Joyce’s happiness” like a lot of people have been asserting here for days
@Shiro (because we’re so far into the nested comments that i can’t reply directly)
I generally agree that I don’t think Joe is going full martyr or anything. But I don’t think things are quite so copacetic. Joe’s been dealing with a lot of self-worth issues over the course of the comic. Some of that was because he acted like a mega-ultra-asshole-supreme at points, but even that was related to him trying to mask his self-loathing with performative macho-sex-god nonsense.
Its not that Joe’s being wronged by bad women. Its just that relationships are messy, him and Joyce and Dorothy have no experience with polyamorous relationships, there’s just a lot of ways for things to go completely to hell without anyone being outright in the wrong.
Really? He doesn’t strike me as compulsively talkative. He’s not like Walky.
I think looking back in the archive presents a long term view of Joe not actually thinking he’s good enough for Joyce. Hard to narrow down to a specific quote, but the one about “I don’t get to be jealous with my history” covers a lot of it.
Not thinking you have the right to be jealous isn’t the same as actually being fine with it and it’s pretty easy to extend that attitude to where he stands now.
We’ll find out eventually. I’m not 100% certain of this, but I don’t think it’s nearly as clear cut that he’s really not bothered at all as you do.
Yeah, the guy who wanted to be in a relationship, but pretended to be a dude bro for YEARS solely so he doesn’t break anyone’s heart, is *totally* on the level about sharing that first real relationship he’s ever allowed himself to have…
Can you explain why he wouldn’t be in a way that doesn’t make it sound like you think poly relationships are less than monogamous ones? He wants to be in a relationship, he gets to be in a relationship, no one gets their heart broken . . .
Can you explain the last two panels of yesterday’s strip in a way that justifies their existence and doesn’t note how the isolated frame and silent, unmoving stance of Joe doesn’t indicate that something may well be really messed up beneath the surface?
Can you see why kids love the taste of Cinnamon Toast Crunch?
Joyce being suddenly distracted and running away to follow that distraction is an out-of-context problem for Joe. He never guessed anything like this could happen. He has no idea what to think about it. So he just stands there.
Joe really wants Joyce to agree to keep being his girlfriend. She ran off without saying yes, and Joe has not thought of what the newspaper photo might mean for the rest of her life.
Aside from eh, whatever’s response: there’s nothing about it that says he’d prefer a mono relationship to a poly one. The girl he loves just panicked over something unrelated and ran off without giving him an answer over whether she’d stay with him (or asking him to go along and help with whatever she’s so distressed about); he’s got multiple possible things to worry about, and there’s no evidence that the poly thing has anything to do with it.
No conclusive evidence that it doesn’t, either, but his words (which, yes, may be covering up his true feelings but, then again, might not) say he’s fine with sharing her with Dorothy.
The thing is, we don’t actually know, but lots of people seem convinced that their various interpretations are The Only Possible Explanation. And so people argue with each other.
Sure I’ll bite.
Because he was cheated on. Joe had accepted that Joyce liked Dorothy sure but he and she never discussed boundaries or openness. Even though Joe was actually OK with it the whole time Joyce herself was under the impression she had betrayed his trust and did it pretty flippantly. Sure she’s stealing a balloon on free balloon day but her intent was to steal.
For someone like Joe who witnessed his mother stay with his dad despite infidelity and has personal trauma based around that, it feels like his GF willfully choosing to, from her perspective, cheat on him should…feel some type of way.
This. All of this. And I don’t even think he’s okay with being poly, he just doesn’t want to let Joyce go. which is one of the MANY ways people try to use poly that gives it a bad name.
Poly in and of itself is utterly fine. Consenting adults should be free to do anything they agree too within their comfort level, so long as it doesn’t pull in people who didn’t/can’t consent.
The problem is I do not feel Joe is actually comfortable with this, nor do I think Dorothy has the mindset that poly requires. Joyce is also quickly turning into a selfish, unmindful person, and has lost the thread of what it means to be in a relationship where you respect your partners. What with her kissing Dorothy, then giving Joe fellatio, then probably kissing Dorothy again.
They’ll be fine. They’re going to hook up with each other, as foretold in the ‘Dorothy and Joyce get married in Gender Studies’ storyline.
Amazing. Now we get to see why this polycule dynamic would turn sour. The level of obnoxious between Joyce and Walky is palpable
Metamours who can’t stand each other is a time-honored tradition in messy polyamory, tbf
You are so right, pass the popcorn please
Exaaaactly
… And Away!
Yoinks, and away!
It probably is fair to tell Dorothy first before she walks into some kinda of trouble.
This is how I expected Walky to act. There’s an interesting handling of Walky’s relationships in the fact that it reverses the fact that the man is always the chaser versus the chasee. Walky doesn’t seem all that interested in a relationship right now but Lucy and Dorothy forced one on him.
I can’t remember if the garbage roof blossoming of walky x amber was mutual, more walky or more amber, but yeah wally is usually a passive participant in most of his relationships so far.
Has Walky ever seen Casablanca?
Capt Walky: “I am shocked to find smooching going on here.”
Here are your smooches Capt Walky.
Walky has made fun of Joyce in the past, but Joyce’s behaviour, to me, goes far beyond anything he has every actually done. But this strip has been around for 15 years now, so I could be forgetting something.
He made a really cruel comment about Joyce’s religion, months ago, which she would probably agree with in spirit now. They both needle each other, but Joyce is being an out and out dick towards Walky here, and reveling in it. It’s not a good look!
Even with all the jokes and poking fun at Joyce that Walky did in the past few months (in-universe of course), I feel like he doesn’t deserve this level of mean from Joyce.
Walky has been making Drothy/Joyce jokes for in-universe momths. Imcluding at least once referring to her as “my girlfriend’s girlfriend”. Mostly in the form of mocking Joyce to her face. He deserves this exact level of meanness from her specifically.
For what? For being right and Joyce being in denial at the time? Walky is 2 for 2 regarding his Joyce-reads.
Repressed, indoctrinated cultist – check, future Joyce agrees
In denial about wanting to bang Dorothy – check, future Joyce agrees
There are more important things than being right, and the way he delivered it was always mean and made him (and only him) laugh.
He didn’t try to help her, Dorothy did.
And Joyce has been mocking and attacking Walky just as long. Often about how he doesn’t deserve Dorothy (or to a lesser extent when they weren’t together any other women).
This is a massive escalation. She just cheated with his girlfriend on him and she’s mocking him for it.
Thank you. Everyone acts like Walky was just unilaterally mocking Joyce forever and not that it was a back and forth dynamic they’ve had.
It had a start, and his behavior is most probably the only reason she said things like that to begin with.
I’m having a hard time thinking what Walky did was not harassment.
I still agree what Joyce is just doing is shitty, but I cannot agree she is more than marginally worse than him…
Honestly feels weird seeing people defending Walky getting cheated on because he was mean to Joyce throughout the strip. When if you look back in the archives, Joyce has legit tried to break Dorothy/Walky up for MONTHS and outright admitting to it verbally. So yeah.. Not a good look for Joyce gloating in this strip.
i do not defend the cheating, just the way she interacts with walky here, as this fits wit hthe way the have ribbed each other throughout the series. not saying it isnt mean, jus tthat these 2 characters have been doing this to each other throughout the comics
Ah ha ha HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
Honestly… Walky deserves better?
Like, not that Dorothy is bad! But their relationship is more “friends with benefits that Dorothy briefly mistook for an ethical framework” than something mutually helpful. There are definitely people out there who are better for Walky. I think he’ll be okay.
I think that Walky needs to get his shit together and figure himself out before he can actually be in a healthy relationship, dude is kinda just drifting without purpose.
To be fair, that is his fine.
He just wants to relax and enjoy his Mario Kart.
Bro is 18. Let the man be a lazy burnout for a while.
Seriously! Hi Yoto!
I’m fine with him being a single, lazy burnout for a while!
I’m more wanting him to actually confront and address all the baggage that he has with Mike’s murder and his kidnapping that he’s buried under a few dozen layers of self-deprecation and snark.
Walky seems fine honestly. Dorothy’s the one who came to him looking to hook back up, quite specifically for sex and companionship because she’s feeling burnt out
I don’t think Walky was really the issue with any of his relationships (even if he did blow up his relationship with Amber suddenly). The worse one was probably his relationship with Lucy and the issue with that was that she has a very idealisitic view on relationships.
And Walky wasn’t that into her
The silver lining is that Walky learned from his mistake, learned how to stand up to his parents and their bigotry, and as a result has a better rapport with his sister.
I disagree. Not that Walky deserves better but that I do believe that Dorothy is kinda bad.
I knew that Walky would be super calm about this, just like joe he expected this to happen, but considering this isn’t even his first break up with Dorothy, he is just able to move on to the Acceptance stage.
Their relationship this time around was way closer to friends with benefits then any actual Romance being involved, Dorothy was not invested at all and I don’t think Walky felt much about it either, this was more a Rebound then anything.
Yup.
God I love Dumbing of Age. RIP Walky: ‘always a little more aware then he wishes he was’
Here for Joyce’s
hussyvillain erafriendstealinghussysayswhat
Oh, good find! So, first Joyce copies Dorothy’s fashion, then copies her hussyness? What next? Maybe Joyce’ll steal her identity and go to Yale?
The horror AU where Joyce turns full yandere.
A. Funniest strip in a while
B. Yes, Joyce is being cruel.
C. Walky is for Amber. I accept no other Walky ships.
D. This was always a sideshow, let’s get to Becky!
I agree with B-D.
This strip’s humor just didn’t affect me.
I’ve busted out laughing at strips before.
This one didn’t even make me smile.
I do get why people find it funny, tho.
I’m actually kinda surprised it didn’t get a chuckle out of me.
But it’s not a “Joyce is evil” type reason.
I think I might have just been hoping for the conversation to happen and it got bypassed.
Yeah I feel the same way about the bypass.
It’ll happen yet.
Some conversation will happen, but not the one where Dorothy confesses that she cheated on him with Joyce and that they’re going to have to break up.
They may circle back and talk about it someday, but now he already knows it all so it’ll be a completely different conversation.
Omg, Joyce went full Looney Tunes for this strip, and I am here for it! Genuinely burst out laughing, which i really needed after my day today. Thanks Willis.
This, absolutely.
Fine, that will be my new avatar
Fair play: it’s a great avatar.
And Joyce continues on her path to being a supervillain. What will she call herself?
The Scarlet Hussy.
Good one.
Anti-Joyce.
I like Walky a lot, I do hope for all the things I’ve said I hope for on his behalf, but also oh my god. Dead on the floor.
Also I think the look on Dorothy’s face in that second panel is really cute.
And I am not at all sure Walky processed this as an actual thing, hard to say for sure until later!
The way Dorothy instinctively perks up when Joyce grabs, kisses, and yoinks her is adorable. Adorothy, even. She loves being dragged around by her girlfriend so much!!!
Yeah that’s what I came here to actually say too. I mean, every time, it’s a wonderful little surprise.
❤️
Ah, I see why this was the most controversial strip for the Patreon crowd now.
Personally this strip is WAY too zany in tone for me to take it seriously as a mean thing happening to Walky.
Sympathy to folks who were hoping for a specific type of drama that it doesn’t look like we’re going to get, although again this is SO zany that I’m not sure this is Walky’s real reaction.
(My hopes were always vaguer, but I’m also still riding high from “Joe suggested polyamory, specifically, out loud”, and as I’ve said there are things I would very much enjoy there even if it becomes wholesome immediately. It’s not what I wanted, but I would like it anyway, if that makes sense.)
I really assume this does not close the question!
Yeah, that’s my take as well.
The problem is that actually is a mean thing happening to Walky, but the zany tone defuses that.
I guess it’s possible he’s just to flabbergasted to react properly and we’ll get something different from him when it sinks in.
Right, but like I said.
I think it’s polarizing because about half of us met it on the intended level and half of us went “what the fuck, Joyce”.
Which is natural. If it hits you more as mean than funny, then yeah, damn. And people being upset about that in combination with everything else is understandable.
Side note: I’m not saying people who aren’t finding this funny are failing to tell what the intended tone is! In fact, I think recognizing that it’s the intended tone is part of why some folks are especially upset.
It’s been a real turnaround on this one! My initial reaction over Patreon-side was more “perplexed bewilderment” combined with “I expected this sort of interaction because Joyce and Walky do not get along because vibes”, and I have now come around to thinking this is really really funny.
Hah, that’s interesting! Also makes sense, because the longer you have to let it process, the more I think the intended tone becomes clear.
That intended tone is gonna rub a lot of people the wrong way and make them only more upset, but it makes sense for it to go the other way too!
Well this sort of sucks. If I was being charitable reading this I’d assume we’d definitely get back to Walky on this, but Becky (it’s definitely Becky) is more important in the moment – but I’m still just disappointed right now. Oh well! Onto Becky?
If I was being charitable, I’d assume it was Joyce panicking about her family finding out, because I can see that as being more important.
If I’m not being charitable, I’d think that both Joyce and Dorothy think it’s more important to soothe Becky’s feelings about Joyce being into girls but not her than it is for Dorothy to talk to her actual (ex now?) boyfriend who she just cheated on.
Which to be fair, if her “lightbulb moment” was due to realizing how ugly her mother’s reaction might be, and how dangerous the response might be (given what we know about Carol making excuses for Toedad over and over), I think that very much would constitute a “oh shit, this can’t wait” moment.
Oh I was talking about Willis as a writer, not any of the characters. I don’t really care about Joyce being mean, I care about Walky being an interesting character – I was looking forward to this because I’ve liked his & Dorothy’s dynamic & how it’s changed over time.
Pfffttt. Look at you fuckin’ plebs, out here getting mad at Joyce for her cruel words or whatever.
You are like little babies.
I’M over here on my philosophy throne made of my own brain being furious that Dorothy has the temerity to get horny over being yoinked away by the cruel monster that is Joyce, which proves that if Joyce is the Dragon, Dorothy is the Whore of Babylon, and
Sniper got them.
HA! THE SHOT MISSED MY VITAL ORGANS! I CAN STILL SHAME THESE TREACHEROUS FEEEEEEMALES BEFORE THEY RELO
Damn that guy reload fast.
Ten good shots, I took them all
They call me El Fusilado
Without the R at the end it mean you were the one getting shot at.
yes, yes it does!
https://genius.com/Chumbawamba-el-fusilado-lyrics
I know in the back of my mind that Chumbawumba has some straight bangers beyond their one big hit, like “The Day the Nazi Died”, but this brings that memory back to the front
Chumbawumba is basically a punk-alt-troll band that sold out hard for one song, got their bag, nodded at each other, and then went right back to their punk-alt-troll shenanigans, and IT IS AWESOME.
The pop music critic/journalist/okay-he’s-a-youtuber has a fantastic video on Chumbawumba that’s absolutely worth the watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiZr87g6rNo
god i hope the urban myth that Tubthumping exists cause thy’re agent said “you guys will never create a commercially successful song and gave an all time banger to prove him wrong
ALL OF THEM???
woke: joyrothy is a knight/princess dynamic where joyce is the knight and dorothy is the princess
bespoke: joyrothy is a dragon/princess dynamic where joyce is the dragon and dorothy is the princess
Man fuck Mario and Luigi comparisons, where is my art of Dorothy as Peach, Joe as Mario, and Joyce as Bowsette
since Joyce and Jocelyne are basically just if Mario and Luigi were white women, CLEARLY the play is for next halloween to have Joyce and Dorothy dress up as Mario and Peach
…joyrothy as bowsette/peach is also good though. i may need to draw that
Danny as Wapeach, confused on several levels.
Please. Yes. YES
+1
MWA-HAHAHAHAHAHA!
Girl with the Triangle Mouth (sinister)
Damn, another candidate for best last panel. Can’t say Walky deserves it (or entirely doesn’t), but the Joyce laughing is good fun
I’m imagining Joyce laughing like a sinister Woody Woodpecker.
Oh fuck off ya shit eater
Do not dare to hit her Walky…. Breaking her glasses seem fair game to me.
What if he hit her WITH the glasses tho.
Last dude who picked a glasses fight with Joyce ended up getting tagged because his blood was in a strip.
The redditors are gonna be real mad about this one. I hope it actually make them drop the comic.
….ooy
I wondered why do you always put some points beifre your comment
Oh my god, other people on a different website not liking a thing, how will we survive /s
Seriously though who cares what Reddit thinks and why do we have to keep bringing it up?
I’m actually glad for the reminder I can go there (r/dumbingofage) for a different kind of conversation than happens here.
I only recently discovered it and had forgotten.
I haven’t participated on the DoA Reddit, but I have gone there just for a different perspective. They are like the other side of the coin of this comment section sometimes, going to the exact opposite extreme.
It’s basic etiquette, too.
If I talk to David Willis at a convention or in his bluesky or whatever, saying anything other that “You’re comic is great I love it” is a dick move. This comment section inherently supports a somewhat broader range of opinions than what’s polite to say to Willis’ face unprompted, but if I really hate a storyline at some point I should go talk about it somewhere where the author isn’t obliged to look at it.
Some people on the reddit are full-time haters who are maybe a bit unhealthily obsessed, others just don’t like this particular storyline and will come back to the comment section when there’s one they like better, and in the meantime they’re keeping to themselves instead of bothering people who do like it.
Because they kinda suck so people are going to make fun of them.
Mate, have fights with people on ready instead of this gloaty behavior where they don’t engage
*reddit
I will not do thata nd i will keep doing the gloaty thing it’s a lot more fun.
If you want to beef with redditors so bad just do it over there instead of this weird proxy stuff. I don’t care what redditors are up to genuinely ever
the guy who I read plant advice from yesterday excluded. there are a lot of helpful people on reddit tbf I just don’t go there for Media Opinions
But what about — Plant Media Opinions?? *gasp*
Yeah no joke, subreddits can be incredible for a lot of hobbies and *certain* fictional properties but there is never a guarantee on the fiction stuff
From what I’ve seen, each subreddit tends to be its own little community and, while there can be connections between them, there’s no Universal Standard Which All Redditors Fulfill or anything like that.
I don’t really care either i am just having fun at their expenses because i think hate watching is lame. 👍
“Who hate-watches the hate-watchers?”
Perfect, 9001 out of 10, no notes.
the beam struggle between sickos and relationship paladins continues
*plays “Dragon Ball Z Episode Prelude Theme” on hacked muzak*
This is hilarious and I endorse it with my full chest.
Dick move, Joyce.
Yeah… but her and Walky being dicks to each other is kind of their whole dynamic.
Well that’s kind of mean-spirited honestly.
…WHAT THE funk
Classy.
Well this comment section should go swimmingly, I believe.
Like a fish in a mountain
Or a barrel full of lobsters
It’s swimming like the Titanic.
Whelp. I guess it’s official. I just don’t like Joyce anymore. GGs, thanks for playing.
Same, and it surprises me how fast it happened. I used to enjoy seeing Joyce and found her relatable in some ways, but in the span of a month or two I’ve come to dislike her.
I didn’t like Joyce at the start of DOA. Like I GOT that she was gonna have an arc for her fundie upbringing but I just found her annoying. But slowly over the course of the story I started to go from disliking her to indifferent to actually liking her. And her arc post-timeskip is one of the few characters I felt was actually benefited from the timeskip. But man this previous arc kinda tanked all that good will. I don’t enjoy this direction her character is going.
Which ironically makes me less upset about the cheating plot cuz at least now Dorothy and Joyce are quarantining themselves by dating each other.
Always finding that silver lining.
So Walky tormenting and teasing Joyce for an entire semester is just punchline, but this one strip is too much. Interesting priorities.
Sure he teases and needles her. He’s never stolen her significant other and then laughed in her face about it. The only reason this doesn’t seem as bad as it is is cuz Walky’s basically being written to just…not care.
The difference is when Joyce makes fun of Walky it mkaes Joyce look bad because shes making out with his girlfriend.
When Walky makes fun of Joyce it still makes Joyce look like the bad one because she wanted to make out with Walky’s girlfriend.
It’s not like that wasn’t mutual though. Joyce was constantly going on about how he wasn’t good enough for Dorothy
Yes, but also one of his first significant interactions with her was telling her that going to college for a MRS “degree” was stupid. She then had to explicitly tell him to stop talking to her because she was irritated with him for saying it.
She already disliked Walky before he started dating Dorothy, and it IS animus that he started.
fff I’m so glad I said basically this same thing to you again, but without the clearness of the references. Sorry, thejeff! Pick which one you wanna reply to I guess.
” Dorothy and Joyce are quarantining themselves by dating each other.”
In Portuguese we have an idiom that, loosely translated, goes “at least it’s only one home getting ruined”, and yeah, it totally applies here.
Right with you Yoto. This Joyce is simply not the same Joyce I’ve been reading. This is not the same Joyce who called out Joe for the list and told him that he can’t minimize the damage of his actions and needs to be careful about how the things he does hurts others around him even if he thinks it’s insignificant. Be careful of how you affect others, except if you want to cheat then it’s fair game to forget the person you’re attached to. She’s just very lucky the guy who passionately hates cheating had very little to say about her cheating on him because she’s more important than the personality altering trauma he’s carried from his youth.
I would have liked Jorothy, but this rush job to get it to the current has not done it favors.
For real. She went from literally my favorite character to where ever she is now.
Still unsure when in the last 15 years Willis decided Joyrothy was happening though?
Before drunk night for sure. But how long before?
I think he’s winging it from the reaction of previous arcs and this year’s polls, comments and reactions.
Definitely winging it, DoA is starting to resemble Questionable Content in terms of narrative stakes.
Yeah it’s really not.
Or did the girl dressing as a superhero during a protest rally bleeding out not too you off?
Side debate: is “bleeding out” necessarily fatal?
I’ve always heard it as being something you don’t come back from. “She bled out” has always been synonymous with “she died (by lack of blood)” to me. But sometimes people seem to use it for any major bleeding injury, even if survived.
Well it is extremely dangerous, I grant you. The only difference comes when using ‘bleeding out’ versus ‘bled out’. Like narratively you’ll have a character bleeding and yelling, “I’m bleeding out, get me something to stop it.”
Versus someone dead, and we the viewers told they ‘bled out’.
So I guess…Semantics as plot demands?
Grimey’s reply mostly covers it, but for instance I popped a stitch after a stomach surgery and was “bleeding out” until a nurse noticed my dressing got way too bloody way too quickly, then had an emergency haematoma drainage and re-stitching by my surgeon right there on the ward. I could have bled out, which would have been the end of me, though it does not negate that I was bleeding out until my wound was tended to. It’s just that bleeding out takes a bit, depending on the location of the wound.
For my part, I had a massive sense of dread, weakness, and light headedness, and felt like I needed to keep my arms above my head or else Something Terrible would happen.
Damn. Wish I hadn’t read this.
unfortunatley remind me on my mother discription of givng birth to me, she required 7litres of blood
Glad you survived eskimolos. Yikes.
Somebody having bled out definitely means they died.
Pizza Girl would NEVER
Pizza Girl would have stabbed them first. Nut up Amber’s Tulpa. .
The latest arc has definitely been a low point for me, and I DO feel that’s at least partially because Willis changed their initial plan drastically mid-illustration (I.e. moving up the Joyrothy timeline by apparently FIVE YEARS holy cow). It’s absolutely made the pacing feel wonky and done not-great things to Joyce’s personality IMO
However, DoA still doesn’t deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as QC for its pacing and plot. For all my recent complaints, DoA is still an incredible story with overall fantastic pacing and foreshadowing that pays off for me way more frequently than not. QC is terrible at this, often introducing new characters then overexposing them for a month or two before dropping them completely and never bringing them up again.
The QC comparison miiight have been a bit heavy handed I admit. I still read QC regularly and at this point just kind of accepted that is what it is like. Virtually no one is surprised Yay just kind of walked back on set after a mid-season break.
Where did he say he moved up the timeline, it’s not that I don’t believe you, that actually makes perfect sense for how the storyline has played out. I’d just like to see it with my own eyes.
It definitely feels like a rush job, especially because Jorothy has cut Joeyce off right in the midst of the payoff. It’s weird to spend so many years developing this relationship just to throw a surprise third in and the characters have been acting incredibly unlike themselves to get to this point.
I’ve been silent because I’ve been trying to see how it feels, but it has not felt any better. Joe not even being at the least slightly annoyed at Joyce for cheating even though his entire personality at the start of the series was created by his disdain for how cheating effects people was just one of the final nails in the coffin.
There just too much happening to make this timeline work at the current, and throwing Willis throwing in the cheating angle because the wife pointed out nobody has has thrown another unnecessary wrench, and the poly also seems tacked on as an apology to people who like Joeyce for interrupting it with suddenly Dorothy.
He talks about it on either a free part of the paetron or the Bluesky. he was going to have Joyce and Dottie slow burn it then said “Bongos, we ball” and threw out a years worth of buffer for… This.
I don’t think he threw out a year’s worth of buffer, the buffer thing is more addressing the Bulmeria stuff I’m sure. Otherwise, he clearly had this written and drawn out like…well, a year ago! The thing about Dumbing of Age is that there doesn’t exactly seem to be an end point, at least not until Willis has deemed it to be the end point. A lot of his comics are similar, honestly. He writes stories as they develop and go. When he started DOA, I don’t think he envisioned it going on for 15 years, but I also don’t think he has a specific plan for it.
In a way, I’d say this comic is his sandbox. He throws his characters in, writes them doing things, and then follows up on what’s happening as it goes along. While he does say he didn’t think Joyce and Dorothy would happen until five years from now, that doesn’t mean he had five year’s of content that he threw in the bin. He probably just figured he’d stretch it out further and further but as he was writing, he saw his chance, took it, and now is writing the aftermath. I’m not saying you can’t be upset or disappointed, I just think saying he threw out a year’s worth of buffer would be disingenuous.
Here’s the post where they talk about it: https://www.patreon.com/posts/original-strips-134187315
5 YEARS!?
No wonder this feels so rushed.
I’ve seen a few compilation posts of years of strips foreshadowing this lately that would suggest otherwise!
Nope.
Leslie in 2010 to Walky and Joe specifically: “Sorry to disappoint you, but Dorothy and Joyce are in lesbians with one another, so you two boys trying to date those two in particular is doomed to ultimate failure.” ( https://www.dumbingofage.com/2010/comic/book-1/02-uphill-from-here/why/ )
Readers in 2025: “There just weren’t any signs.”
Yeah, when Leslie Bean the Lesbian tells you someone is a lesbian, you listen.
Be like someone doubting you saying something was light brown. Like, come on dawg.
…come on. This is an obvious joke that takes a stereotype about gender studies and uses it against Old!Joe types.
No, I was agreeing with Tan. When someone literally named Lesbian tells you people are lesbians, you should have listened.
At least 7 years https://www.tumblr.com/dumbingofage/789056686007730176/just-out-of-curiosity-willis-how-long-has-this?source=share
He’s said since “at least before the timeskip”. It is explicitly why Dorothy and Joyce are next to each other in the final rooftop scene.
He advanced the timeline, but not by as much as some folks seem to think.
He also ALMOST started this whole thing in before Joe made Joyce mac and cheese, so that’s something to keep in mind, too: there are THREE potential timelines here, one that waits 5 years for the kiss and one that did it 3 years sooner.
Okay so all of you guys are mad at Joyce for being mean to Walky about this, but have you considered: this is EXACTLY what Danny would want???
Like, GOD FORBID a woman try to be nice to one of her best friend’s boyfriends and share his interests 🙄
ffffff
I mean, you’re not wrong, Danny would cheer for that before he got whiplash from the cheating!
Time for a full-scale mindwipe! Call SEMME!
will there be another 15-year setup for the “downhill”, we ain’t getting any younger
“And really, there’s nothing more pure and cruel as a child.”
– Jet Black, Cowboy Bebop “Pierrot le Fou”
Joyce and Dorothy deserve each other (derogatory)
I think we will see Walky’s emotional reaction to this later. I can’t imagine he’s taking this that well less than a week from Lucy moving on to Jacob making him feel so insecure, not to mention last time we saw him he was condescendingly mocking Joyce’s attraction. I don’t think he even wanted to date Dorothy again to begin with and just enjoyed their comfort and sex, but like no way he’s just this okay.
That was mean, Joyce.
It is kinda funny how much Joyce dislikes Walky, when they ended up together in a different universe.
Mean and funny is still funny!
now maybe he can get with amber again. good ending
I’m starting to see what the 118 votes for “frightening body horror manifesto” were seeing when they casted those votes.
I still don’t understand that vote option or what it was referencing, can you help me out please? Was it someone posting an unhinged rant or something?
Kinda! There is a very specific type of commenter who will go on Tumblr or Reddit and describe in detail the type of body horror scenario they might like to re-enact as a form of ‘revenge’ against a specific character or thing. It’s not exclusive to DoA, it can happen in any fandom where the investment might be running a little too high.
…maybe I was too hasty with that “deliberate exaggeration” guess. Now, for the sake of my mental health, I’m going to try to forget I ever read this.
Ah okay, thanks for the answer. Didn’t know if it was a specific reference or just the bog-standard terrifying hatred of women that festers in the dark anonymous pits of the internet.
It’s Willis referencing the people in the comments who are absolutely fiending for Joyce and Dorothy to be punished and suffer for their infidelity. They want to see them hurt in some manner, for various reasons, and they get angrier and angrier as the narrative doesn’t deliver them the “justice” they believe they are entitled to.
You may be one of these people! If you are, I would suggest looking inward about that. I don’t know that that suggestion will help, though, and you’ll probably get mad at me for saying it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
“You may be one of those people” “you’ll probably get mad at me for saying it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯“
Jesus Christ. Sorry for asking about a reference I didn’t understand, I guess?
I’m not trying to be mean, like, genuinely, but I’m not gonna pretend comments here exist in a vacuum each thread or that I’m an ingenue who doesn’t know how things here go literally all the time.
I’m sorry but what the **** is your problem with me, specifically, that you’d imply I’m THAT kind of twisted person? Based on what? My mild critique elsewhere of a story beat I don’t like?
Seriously, what are you alluding to with the “comments in a vacuum” thing? If you’re going to accuse me of some horrible opinions I don’t have, I’d prefer if you came out and said it directly.
“IF you are one of those people, you’ll probably get mad at me for saying it”
It’s literally just an observation about that type of person, not an accusation.
What Li said (thank you Li), with the added context of I wasn’t trying to persecute you personally, dude, I was responding to the huffy offended “sorry for asking” by kind of verbally gesturing wildly to something that’s happening all over the comments of this strip in real-time, and like, I know the polite thing is to pretend this comment thread is the only one but I’m desperately uninterested in that.
I’m sorry, “you may be one of these people” is literally a sentence before the one you quoted. that goes a bit beyond “literally just an observation about that type of person”, I’d say. Maybe not accusation outright, but a really really weird assumption to make?
And hey, turns out the question made sense because it apparently was a reference to something specific, like some of the other poll options (notably “i hope jakey dies”. The others do sound more generic)! I sure didn’t know that, I thought it was a sort of exaggeration of the attitude Sajuuk-Khar mentions too.
Anyways there was literally no reason to be weirdly hostile since like 3 other commenters managed to express the same thing without doing that!
@perpetual summer: “you may be one of those people, in which case” is just acknowledging that Jon might agree with the people Sajuuk-Kur was talking about.
I do think the conversation would have gone a little smoother if not for that paragraph, but it’s still not an accusation. The word may means “might”. It’s not an assumption.
That feels manipulative. Saying very pointed and accusatory things but mitigating it with “might” and “maybe”s so that if the other person gets mad you can say “oh no I didnt mean you specifically. I don’t have a word for it but I’ve seen this kinda thing a few times in the comment section and I don’t like it. Broad generalizations into backpedal when people take personal offense.
I just don’t agree that it was a broad generalization of anyone except the people Sajuuk-Khar was actually talking about.
Those people, if NOT angry to be described that way, have an argument about being over-generalized.
But someone who’s not them at all just being like “I feel targeted by this statement that explicitly doesn’t describe me” is a separate issue. Possibly strawmanning, if you’re very sure you were being described, just wrongly?
Because they responded to them and even implied they fit that description. It doesn’t actually matter if iit doesn’t apply to them. The point is to imply it does. The point is to make you mad or feel lesser and then defend yourself with a “oh I didn’t mean YOU specifically. You just reminded me of some lesser filth so I decided to bring it up. Don’t take it so personally.”
I’m not saying this is even intentional but it drives me up the wall. It’s got the same stink of “Im just asking questions” all over it.
My quibble with this is SO technical and it’s not even my argument and I’ve already said I wouldn’t have included that last paragraph if it were me, I would’ve waited until Jon actually said he agreed with the hypothetical position — so it’s very silly of me to keep arguing.
I am sorry the comment section has been so exhausting for you in specific, too, and I don’t want to contribute to that.
I’m trying to concede the point and drop it! orz my impulse to explain everything I’m feeling and thinking sometimes gets in the way of apologizing and actually saying the thing I want to say.
Deliberate exaggeration, I’m pretty sure. People were demanding Joyce and Dorothy suffer consequences for their cheating, so when people complained about how simplistic the previous three-option poll about cheating was and David Willis made a more nuanced poll, they decided to add a more extreme response than “cheating is evil”.
It is an accurate description of the worst reaction comment that got posted.
I don’t remember which strip got it and I suspect it has been removed, but it was fucking awful
I gotta admit I voted for that option but only because I thought it was a hilariously extreme overreaction/exaggeration and if it really is some sort of reference to a real guy who says that kind of stuff, I’m not with him! I just like memes and jokes!
One of the best Joyce faces you’ve ever drawn, Willis
She’s been watching waaaaay too much Dexter and Monkey Master.
Tired: Reading Self cringe at his old work forgetting the punchline for self critique.
Wired: Willis spending days reading the current joyless buzzkill comments on his recent work
I have actually no idea what the first part is even saying
Stop! Stop! He’s already dead!
Holy crap Joyce.
It really does seem like a lot of you have forgotten how to read a comic. Like the last panel is a little OOC because it’s presented to tell a joke to get a laugh out of the reader? It seems like it might be cruel? I’m pretty sure that’s how the medium works?????????? Am I missing something here?
Webcomic, what do you mean, this is a portal into an alternate reality filled with real people doing real things.
There is no “medium”, there is no “genre”, there are no “story conventions,” this is a reality show in a different dimension that we are somehow watching and HOW DARE THESE PEOPLE BE TERRIBLE!
The last panel isn’t the only cruel one.
No, fair point, exaggeration for comedy is a common tactic.
You just can’t exaggerate the character past the point that the audience disbelieves that character would be that mean. Even with the allowance offered by comedy, you can’t stretch that character’s personality so far that it “breaks.”
I’ve never seen Joyce be this spiteful before, so it shocked me at first. It didn’t seem like the Joyce I’d read up till this point.
I have a better question, when did this go back into being a comedy?
We’ve been pretty much in drama mode since Joe and Dorothy talked about wanting to smooch Joyce. I don’t remember a funny gag for most of summer and NOW we’re gonna do the funny hah hahs?
Why not?
I honestly don’t understand why that’s supposed to be a problem.
It’s a pretty jarring tonal shift, especially since we’re probably running right into “your boss just fucking outed us on the cover of the paper” drama zone
There have been multiple different punchlines this whole time. Including during Joyce and Joe’s conversation.
Like if you didn’t personally find it funny when he first rolled out the newspaper, fair enough, but that was definitely a comedic beat!
There were comedic beats, but this one derails the drama and those didn’t.
100% this strip is basically all punchline.
That’s a totally valid opinion to have! I just think it’s taking it too far to say the last two months of strips have been drama (solidly), rather than dramedy which sometimes veers one way and sometimes the other.
Not everyone is going to react to comedy in the same way.
If you’re trying to be comically mean, some folks might just see it as mean. Speaking from experience here, this is a tightrope I have fallen off in the past
I get that Walky and Joyce aren’t exactly friendly in this iteration of their characters, and that this was supposed to be a break in the “drama”, but fuck me this Joyce turns into a dick at the drop of a hat. It’s just…mean. She gets called out for cheating by both Sarah and Joe, but brushes the situation off because there’s a photo of her cheating. She takes the time to force the break up of Dorothy and Walky to laugh in his face. What happened to the writing here? I’m genuinely a little lost.
As for Becky? I think I’m expecting her to look cross eyed at the two of them and go, “But I found a great gal to love, who loves me. Why would I have a fit about you kissing face? Are you suggesting I’d ditch Dina now that I know you’re into clams? What about Joe and Walky? Weren’t you still with them like before the protest? Do THEY know? What do you mean you left Joe on hold and threw it in Walky’s face? When did you become such an ass?!”
The photo is not just of her cheating, it’s of her kissing a GIRL. Remember her mom?
or her dad, or her moms church
Whelp I guess there’s no better time for me to post this stupid shitpost I drew a while back
https://imgur.com/a/OD5YSE1 (NSFW dialogue I guess.)
I’m holding out for Walky/Billie or Walky/Asher personally.
“Some men just want to watch the world burn.”
Despite my critically acclaimed Walky/Billie porn comic (that I will finish someday) I actually doubt it’ll ever happen. They’re too sibling coded to overcome that.
But stepbro~!
I SAID GOOD DAY!
Pffft Indiana is the new Alderaan. They always knew.
I would actually live for this…
Just to note, in case it matters for you: apparently many people are fleeing Imgur due to mismanagement; https://imgpile.com/ and https://discuit.org/ are two places I know they’re fleeing to.
I’ve no connection with any of these (webcomic comment sections are the closest I get to using social media these days), but thought you might want to know of other places to put your pictures.
Although maybe you already knew anyway.
Oh, and apparently some are saying https://www.imgcat.io/ too, but that doesn’t seem to be ready yet.
I’ve more or less stopped using imgur for major posts, but it’s still convenient for posting a quick image here and there. Quick read-through and yeah looks like the usual scummy company bullshit.
aah yes wh capitolist fallicy of the morder stock market, where boards and ceo and manager all have to live withn sword of damacles over their heads if they do not put profits above all else (any company traded on an American stock market has a fiduciary resposibilty to prioritize shareholder profit or face removal from their position, and poeple wonder why corperations produce shit products and services, cause if the don’t they lose thier jobs.)
“NERD REFERENCE”
Perfection.
I wouldn’t mind seeing Walky and Amber get back together.
I hope Joyce tackles Walky later and punches him in the head twelve times like Raja Jackson, just to give the comment section something to REALLY complain about. Everyone’s got their goddamn fainting powders out over a little petty maniacal laughter. Oh no. How gauche. She’s petty.
Let Joyce be petty! Let Joyce be mean! Let Joyce kill a cop and drive his patrol car off a pier to hide the evidence and then start a cult made up of communist clowns! Let’s get completely unhinged instead of everyone being “mature” and “reasonable” like a bunch of assholes in an 80s cartoon. Invite Becky, Dina, and a chicken into the polycule without telling anyone! Fuck it, invite Mary into the polycule without telling anyone! You can fix her, Joyce, it’s a 100% great idea with no downsides! You know what goes great with macaroni and cheese? Black Tar Heroin. Come on, Joyce. Let’s get completely 100% unhinged and commit every crime imaginable all at once and then kill the president to redeem yourself before driving a stolen car off the grand canyon and dying tragically but then revealing in the post-credits that you faked your death and moved to Hussy Island (which is technically a peninsula) with your harem of the entire cast of Dumbing of Age and also a few other webcomics without Willis getting permission from their creators. It’s your twenties, girl, live a little!
Or, like, talk everything out in a reasonable and mature fashion like an adult so that no one holds a grudge, I <i<guess, if you wanna be a <i<wuss about it. If you wanna be a wuss in front of that hot girl who’s watching.
Above statement is exaggerated for comedic effect. ESM Industries does not actually endorse giving Mary screen time. Terms and Conditions may apply. Offer not valid in the state of Indiana unless you’re cool. In the event of a fire please refrain from singing disco inferno as we do not have the rights to any of their their music
the only eccepptable mary sceen time is her recieving negative life events and pain so we may drown in our schadenfreude.
I am always ready to be wuss in front of ant gorl.
Man not gonna lie, the mental image of Joyce punching Walky gave me the ick do to the uh…race of it all.
Sorry, Yoto.
Extremely fair, white women do not get taken NEARLY as seriously as they should be in terms of their contribution to and upholding of white supremacy.
(Signed, a white afab)
(I still remember and cringe about the time I jumped because I had headphones in and this poor young Black guy was all gentle laughter and apologizing for scaring me and I really was scared so it took me a moment to yell back “Sorry!” but like, that was ABSOLUTELY a micro aggression, and worse that he knew, deep in his soul, that he had to be so over the top kind to me about it. You know? Fuck white supremacy so much. Fuck my fellow Karens who know and weaponize their very specific power as white women against Black men.)
inb4 someone tries to tell me “but you really were scared” BAD PHRASING. I was very startled and my heart rate was still elevated for a moment, I was not actually scared and he was not actually scary!! All he did was pass me on the sidewalk not knowing I had earbuds in.
Growing up I’ve always kinda been. Overly polite and thoughtful when engaging with strangers and even though I enjoy being polite and I like to be helpful part of it is just because I don’t want people to find me mean scary or threatening. I often speak in a high timbre and with a certain sweetness cuz I think I subconsciously wanna evoke the idea that I’m one of the good ones. Which is a pretty sad thing to notice about yourself.
damn brotha this one hits home real hard for me too T-T
Yeah. I’m really sorry.
No one should have to carve off pieces of themselves for someone else’s comfort. Especially shallow, superficial comfort.
Finally, a comment I can vibe with.
Oh boy, another “Hey, I’m going to use violence as an illustrative example for no good goddamn reason. I’m sure THAT’S going to be brilliant.”
Pffft ok, that was great delivery
1.Joyce outed own girlfriend
2. nobody cares about Walky again
3. Just because it was open secret dont change girlfriend stealer status
4. at least Walky dont end strip with Glazed eyes
The continuing adventures of “Comments Are Okay With Shitty Behavior When It’s The MC”
Some of us grasp the concept of fiction, i.e. that these are not real people experiencing real events, and the subversion of expectations, particularly in an abrupt and shocking way, can be humorous
It can also be slop. Joyce being a jerk for stupid, petty reasons while she is apparently in Dramatic Crisis Mode isn’t funny. Walky being stepped on *again* isn’t really funny.
Oh no, he was snarky to Joyce because he clocked she wanted to play rock paper scissors with his GF, who didn’t shut it down because she also wanted it. He deserves to be shit on and laughed at when he had just gotten back with her after *Dorothy* wanted him back.
tbh I just can’t take it that seriously when this is very obviously just here for laughs. Like yeah if it comes up later in a more solemn context, maybe, but to me this is getting mad at Jerry for getting Tom to walk on a rake or something
You’re wrong, it’s incredibly funny and Walky totally had it coming.
This is subverting your expectations? You didn’t call this a month ago when Joyce offered to tell Walky while smirking because she’s been living for this day? https://www.dumbingofage.com/2025/comic/book-15/04-the-only-exception/catch-2/
I mean yeah? The storyline has been fairly serious and somber for a bit. A sudden bit of emotional slapstick is jarringly incongruous. This is a form of humor.
It can be funny and it can also be shitty. And even though it’s a joke, that doesn’t mean it didn’t actually happen in the story.
There are tons of people not okay with this. Stop pretending that’s a minority opinion when the comments have been 50% people complaining about every action Joyce and Dorothy have taken.
When we watch a horror movie, are we supposed to be aghast… at the writer? ‘I can’t believe they made Jason kill those kids, they did nothing but smooch in the woods!’
This isn’t what you think it is – what you are experiencing is that we are relating to this story and it’s characters in a different way than we are. These aren’t real people whose behaviors we are judging. There are no people here, nobody is getting hurt here, nobody CAN be hurt, except us, the audience. We invest it with our imagination and our suspension of disbelief to make it feel more real to us, but this is a story, and we are interacting with it on the level of “is this story entertaining, is it interesting, is it saying something that connects with me on any level.”
To me, all the conversations about “you’re okay with bad behavior” and etc come off exactly like people having power scaling arguments about superheroes, and who could beat who, who’s better than who, etc. It’s engaging with a story in a way that seems utterly alien to me.
Walky being chill with it alleviates pretty much all of my worries on that front. We cool.
I should be sleeping because i have to go to the doctor at 6 am and yet 😞
I know I’m one of the few people that has always hated Walky (though I like him more in this incarnation than any other), so this delights me extremely.
Apparently I’m clearly in the “it’s a comic strip” crowd of the poll (though I didn’t vote), because unlike everyone who’s busy having a hissy fit one way or another, I’m just delighted by how this parallels the gender studies class where people had to pretend to be married, and wondering if Willis already had this pairing this firmly in mind at the time or not.
Obviously, if things follow, Joe and Walky are about to hook up. The only question is whether they’ll let Amber watch.
Walky: Well, shoot. Anyways… (goes to Amber and Dina’s room for Mario Karts)
Yeah I hate this
Wow, him prematurely conceding defeat is even sadder…he’s like, “Yeah this was inevitable, I was in denial thinking it would last this time.”
Walky keeps doing the same thing, but no longer expects it to turn out differently.
Yeah this is just awful. Joyce is being awful. Walky doesn’t deserve this.
There’s many reactions one could have to todays comic
Mine is: WALKY DO SOMETHING! FEEL SOMETHING DEEPER! ANYTHING!
That’s the exact opposite of what he wants to do!
Well I’m not happy about it! *crosses arms and pouts*
We’ll get him reacting one day. Must not give up hope. The Joyce/Dorothy ship finally came in for them. We’ll get our ‘Walky does a feel’ some day.
I hope so Grimeyville, I really hope so
Weirdly, I kinda ship it.
Who, Joyce and Walky? If so I’ve got some good news for you!
I’ve read It’s Walky, I know about their Prime Universe versions. I meant in this setting, they’re still a fun, petty and childish duo. There’s some volatile chemistry that’s fun to watch.
In spades.
My take on this is that yuri will always be more important than men’s feelings
Generally speaking, yes.
But fictional men are the only ones I allow myself to care about!
Oh a THOUSAND percent, yes. Always. Every time.
This is true.
So, seeing Walky’s reaction, I’ll assume Dorothy actually told him all that needed to said already before being snatched by Joyce.
Nah, this is the girl who spent an entire summer hoping Danny would just miraculously disappear so she wouldn’t have to break up with him, and the guy who’s hosting a TVTropes mirror in his brain. She’s been hemming and hawing around it for the last ten minutes, and he clocked what she was here for nine minutes and fifty seconds ago, but has been avoiding just cutting to the chase on the off chance he was wrong.
Love that interpretation, installing it in my brain now.
That’s actually probably it.
Same.
100%, no notes
I think we’re all forgetting the real victim here: Ruth, who has now thrice been denied the privilege of delivering breakup news to Dorothy’s boyfriend.
AMEN
She’s a Leaf’s fan, she’s used to disappointment.
Leaves?
Its Leaf’s, when its the team name, right?
Yeah, Ruth calls ‘em the Leafs, it’s the accurate Sports Plural.
yes as a card carrying citixen of canuckistan (and a die hard Habitant) leaf’s leaves, loosers, jokes, st.pats cursed are all valid
Not to repeat myself, but I’m glad to see that the comments section is being VERY normal about this strip.
I feel like I can just keep saying that over and over again each strip and it’ll continue to be worth stating.
Also I spit my drink out at Joyce’s actions today. I love me some lawls humor.
Well…that wasn’t what I was expecting.
Muppet ass face lmao
I was annoyed at this yesterday. But having slept on it… I can admit to a grudging sense of amusement.
Still want her to repeat that toenail ripping incident, though.
So basically
Walky is just sorta fine about it
Joe wants to stay with joyce while she is with dorothy
So they just, get their cake and eat it too?
Their boyfriends are both just, whatever about this?
Walky just turned went “oh okay”
Like im sorry, I know it’s a gag, and it’s funny but
This annoys me, it annoys me that the boyfriends almost don’t seem to care.
Call me a relationship paladin all you want but its too neat, too easy.
I know there’s prolly gonna be drama with becky.
Or she’ll also just be fine with it and there wint be any issue with her.
I dunno it all leaves a bad taste, because it’ just is. Joyce can have her cake and eat it too, instead kf having to actually have a hard conversation with Joe and instead he’s just “nah im cool with it”
A: Willis is a fine writer, I dont doubt things will shake out less simple than the first abbear
B: Joe is succinctly in love and experienced and Walky generally uncaring enough for both to just wait and see – how the college gay adventure of two girls finding their own feet will turn out.
Risking a collective stoning : those relationships are not neccessarily set in stone. And I´m aware thats a painful coming-out trope for young sappic ladies, but its also a trope for a reason.
Kids do experiment.
I’m at this point as well. Currently. I’m sure things will change. Problems will arise, and some of them will probably stem from these moments that currently just feel like “whelp, that’s how it is.”
But right now, for several strips, Joe and Walky have both essentially relegated themselves to accessories. Joe proposing poly doesn’t both me; it bothers me that the only time he got to express a modicum of annoyance at Joyce cheating was immediately superceded by Joyce being worried about the cover [which I understand, but still ended that scene just as Joe got to point out the “cheating” part as Joyce tried to claim some sort of “I’m not a hussy” high ground]. Now we see a fraction of Dorothy’s conversation with Walky, and it’s 90% Joyce being mean to Walky and a tiny percent of Walky just going “oh well, I should have known.”
I tried to give Joyce a charitable read in the last few strips, because breaking up with Joe was going to be tough for her. I thought that she might have started to realize that, oh, she did a shitty thing. A series of shitty things, actually. After justifying herself to Sarah, she would finally realize that it wasn’t just a sad mistake that lost her Joe, it hurt Joe and Walky, and others. But she had one panel of that, and Joe immediately told her she didn’t have to feel bad. No, no, HE knew all along, so it’s fine, she should have what she wants! Even if she didn’t know he was ok with! And now Walky doesn’t even get that much.
It’s not just annoying because “But All Relationships Must Be Pure or Have Heartbreaking Drama!!!!” It’s anticlimactic, and even if it loops around later to bite Joyce or Dorothy in the ass, right now I’m personally sick of the “Ah, we knew all along!” reasoning without any anger that it was still a crappy thing to do, to let Joyce and Dorothy off the hook, from BOTH guys. One, ok, people react to things differently. Both? It feels like such an empty reaction, especially since Joe was left and Walky got one sentence in his own breakup so Joyce had more room to mock him and drag Dorothy on to other things. Also Joyce taking over Dorothy’s breakup, that Dorothy had her own plan for, feels rude to Dorothy and Walky. It’s not actually all about you, Joyce, despite what Joe is willing to put up with.
Honestly I kind of expect Becky to be fine with it, too. And if she’s not there’s always room in the polycule for her and Dina.
Let’s give him more than five second to react before we say he’s fine.
Literally everyone except the two of them saw this coming from months off. Anyone in their friendgroup wiling to date one of them is definitionally chill with it.
Joe does care. He helped Dorothy see it. Because he loves Joyce.
Yeah thd whole paladin thing was one side going “cheating is wrong” and another side going “nah its fine its a comic and it will be worth it for the messy breakup drama”
But if the boyfriends just go “nah its cool” then there’s no messy breakup drama
Right. We could have just skipped the cheating part and gone straight to the “let’s try a polycule and watch that get messy”.
This is the ultimate take.
I understand Willis wanting to do a cheating arc, it just feels like we’re not getting any of the stuff that would usually go with it, so it feels anticlimactic and odd so far. It doesn’t feel fully committed
Joyce had the breakup conversation for you, Dorothy, and it went like you expected.
That final panel reminds me so much of Lawsome.
joyce evil arc
(she’s earned it)
Every once in a while gotta put the com back in the rom.
The quiet “Joyce?” In panel 2 pulls at my heartstrings so sweetly. Love this webcomic.
I was expecting something a bit more serious for Dorothy and Walky breaking up (again) but considering the drama-filled pages we’ve been having for the last few days, I suppose a palette cleanser was necessary.
palate
roof of the mouth
Damn autocorrect. That’s what happens when you enter comments via mobile.
“Palette” cleanser, you say??
https://www.reddit.com/r/nosleep/comments/61p20d/palette_cleanser/
Now that Joe isn’t gonna be a category 5 meltdown, Walky’s kinda been a punching bag in the latest storylines. Joyce takes his Webcomic spot that he really wanted, Lucy dumps him cuz he didn’t stand up for her enough to his raging mother, and now he gets cheated on and Joyce brags about it. Can’t wait to see what the next ill to befall Walky will be.
Academic probation probably.
fuck, I forgot about his issues with Math class, yeah he’s gonna get in trouble and Lucy nor Dorothy will be there to help him and Raidah will do something evil probably.
Soon, as Walky’s spacing in the cast pages shrinks further and further, he will be ousted from the character line up entirely and his removal from the plot will be complete.
I mean, Joyce really wanted the comic spot as well. And she did a lot more work to obtain it, as well as being willing to fill out the necessary paperwork.
I just don’t think that’s something that was “taken” from him as much as it was something he “lost” by expecting it to be handed to him.
But Walky saw it first, so it was his and Joyce stole it. Because jobs at a college newspaper work on the same principle as six year olds finding a cool rock, right? /s
Walky literally asked Joyce for paper to draw his comic on for the contest and she decided to also apply because he did, then she refused to share the spot with him when he was ok with sharing it with her. She evidently exists to take things from Walky as the above strip shows.
#whiteprivelage
#halfjoking
#butstill
Look I wasn’t gonna be the one to point out that in my observation people are being way more forgiving of Joyce than Walky in this comment section wrt their conflicts with each other, and why people might be doing that… but…
I’m sure that’s a factor. It always is!
This is literally the only conflict I’ve commented on, and I took issue with the way a commentor phrased it, not with Walky being upset.
Faux sibling rivalry, funny comic etc.
Even so this is pretty jarring and nasty. It also means Joyce switches gears at the drop of a hat. Weird tonal shift.
Joe’s reaction was surprising, but Walky? Totally expected the “meh, such is life” reaction he just gave.
Dotty was a rebound. I’m sure he’ll find a new girl in a day or two.
This is just way too funny!
I LOVE THIS!!!
The best way to end the Walky breakup indeed.
*that last panel* ROFL!!!!
Huge Guybrush Threepwood vibes from Walky in the penultimate panel.
Man it’s been A WHILE since we’ve had a comic where people like, demonstrated their inability to understand tone in a piece of fiction, It’s honestly pretty quant.
Usually the perspective of “Doesn’t understand that if a strip is lighthearted and nobody in it meaningfully gets upset, it should be taken less seriously than ones where people act realistically” is reserved for Becky strips exclusivley!
From this we can conclude it only happens to women who smooch other women!
I kinda don’t know what you’re talking about because this happens pretty much every other strip. Like it’s probably not always a focus of discussion but every strip with an exaggerated punchline gets this. What’s quaint to me is people bringing up that that’s strange
I said it before upthread but “it’s a joke strip” doesn’t mean the characters can do literally whatever. This isn’t an absurdist comic, it’s a mostly grounded one (character wise at least).
Regardless of it being a joke, it was still too mean for Joyce. At least to me. I struggle to see Joyce being this spiteful, even in context of a joke.
People are allowed to think a joke is too mean-spirited to be funny
Part of it is that some of us don’t like the ending of Dorothy and Walky’s relationship being treated less realistically. This isn’t just a one-off mean joke unrelated to the drama, it’s a part of the drama and that’s being cut off and treated as a joke.
Right? Like ostensibly this is the coda of one of the strip’s founding relationships. Shouldn’t it get a few strips to really let it breathe before Joyce pulls Dorothy along?
if there wasnt a possibiility of voilence being caused by them cheating in public sure, and we still could see a dorothy going to walky later to try to apologize and offer explainthings.
Fingers crossed for this.
I’m not sure how likely I think it is because Dorothy is definitely more conflict-avoidant than Joyce, but I hope for it. I would also definitely be disappointed if this is the sum total of Walky’s reaction.
An equally interesting observation is the equal uptick in smug condescending posts by people. The reason people don’t like thing must be because their brains are too tiny and not just that they don’t find this funny or good for the overall narrative.
The punchline is Joyce is being cruel to Walky who is weirdly indifferent about being jerked around yet again, sandwiched in between yesterday’s, “oh no something dreadfully serious is happening that I have to immediately leave this heartfelt conversation, with no explanation” and the forthcoming “something important, we’ve got to run” strip.
I understand tone. This is discordant.
joyce sicko mode
Normally happily in the sicko camp but I legitimately don’t know how to feel about this one.
Walky’s been kind of forgotten about as the fourth party in this storyline in favour of Joe’s reaction to what’s been going on. I kind of guessed that Joe was going to be okay with things while Walky would be the one to take it badly. In a way i guess Walky taking it badly compared to Joe would have been the obvious twist, but at the same time, it would be handled in that usual way Walky takes things (glib remarks, followed by self-destruction).
I guess that’s probably how things are going to go, but this does seem a little cruel on Joyce’s part. I get it as a punchline and all. I guess i was expecting something else from all the ‘not including Walky in things’ angle that was going on.
I do actually honestly feel bad for Walky in all of this. He’s essentially been dumped, like, I think 5+ times now? (And twice by two different women as well!)
Forgot to add a “dumped 5+ times mostly through no fault of his own”.
Joyce is a real asshole to people she doesn’t like.
A common trait among humans.
I mean, there are people who deserve it, Walky meanwhile never did anything to warrant this treatment. Except for being Walky and, the greatest of sins, dating Dotty.
Walky has actually been pretty mean to Joyce about Dorothy. It was funny, but then, so is this.
Fair
I’m unclear why you brought up the concept of “deserving it”.
Being an asshole to someone who hurt you is deserved, being an asshole to someone who did nothing to you, isn’t.
Yes, I understand the concept. That wasn’t the question. Why’d you feel the need to bring it into the equation at all?
I guess I wasn’t clear with the first post. What I wanted to say was “Joyce can be a real asshole to people she dislikes that have done nothing to her when she is in her selfish mode.” kind of like not giving a damn about Jacob or Raidah’s feelings when trying to break them up and grab Jacob for herself because she felt entitled to him.
Because that’s the boundary between Joyce being and not being an asshole?
but one that is not universal nor should it be allowed to be seen as such.
None of those words appeared.
did not mean to imply your use of them by omission, simply to state my position that is it a trait that i dislike and think we are better humans by fighting the acceptance of such traits. i try not to be an asshole to any one regardless of if i like them or despise them, and i fail all the time much to my personal horror. and i do not deny as much as i love clarity, my typing skill are abismal and can cause a lot of issues, and for that i do apologize. unfortunatley my history with using the written word is far more adversarial than i’d like, but i wouldrater try to say peice as poorly as i do than take the 5 hours it does for me to type a paragraph without mistakes (my penmansship is also terrible and i hate writing by had as well)
YOINK!!!
😀
really good strip. very classically walky reaction. awesome
It can’t be all downhill from here, we still haven’t found out Spider-Car’s secret identity
Pride cometh before the fall. Well, assuming a fall ever comes I guess. Im in the sickos camp as others have said, now I need the sickos flip
Iunno, maybe that isn’t gonna happen with this part of the story line and we’ll see more heat from Amazi girl, the general protest, and maybe backlash to the newspaper making this the main thing.
Also, editing that one panel to focus more on the absurdity of them making out at the protest doesn’t make it not gonna tasteless.
I wonder if part of this crashing and burning will lead to either friends falling back or opening them up to no longer being on campus? Dorothy is in a spiral and Joyce doesn’t have much going on with her education, maybe they have to take a semester off while they navigate this relationship and the outside world some more. Who knows.
Something tells me Dorothy won’t approve of this behaviour.
I foresee a rocky ride for this relationship.
Which is great.
I don’t see it surviving summer break. If it ever gets here.
…. is this a dream sequence or something?
Nope
Somehow, Walky’s low key fourth wall violation tracks
And Joyce provided the laugh track.
I am once again reminding the comments section that Joyce has the emotional maturity of a sheltered teenager, on account of being a sheltered teenager.
Also this is a narrative that’s being told here, you’re gonna want to wait for more than one or two strips before you decide what’s going on inside the characters’ heads.
…she just acted like a Looney Tunes character during what’s supposed to be a fairly emotional “Dorothy broke Walky’s heart *again*” scene.
This wasn’t part of a “narrative,” it was an attempt to keep the strip light by doing a joke.
You can decide for yourself if it worked, but try not to rationalize it too much
Except apparently it wasn’t “supposed to be a fairly emotional “Dorothy broke Walky’s heart *again*” scene.”
And I think that’s what a lot of people are reacting too, even if they’re focusing on Joyce being mean.
This is more directed at the people looking at a bewildered and silent Walky for a single strip and two strips of Joe “I have relationship issues” Rosenthal and saying “they’re clearly fine with the cheating!”
Hell, we don’t even know that Dorothy is amenable to sharing Joyce with Joe, considering she doesn’t much care for Joe, and people are already writing poly vows for three. (Also is it just me or is it weird that all of the poly pitches from the comments don’t really include Walky?)
What I’m saying is, people are counting their chickens before the eggs are even laid here.
How about 30 strips?
…bizarre.
Both the strip, and also how there’s a contingent I’m the comments that’s just like…. it’s impossible for this comic to be bad, so therefore everything that happens is good! Very Annie-the-Script-Supervisor vibe from Community.
(Despite being meh on the strip these days, I like that I know most of you will get that reference)
I just dislike the implications that if this strip didn’t work for you, then obviously you just Don’t Get How Jokes Work, and you deserve to be condescended to.
‘Comedy is subjective?’ Never heard of her.
I mean I don’t love the implication in the comment you’re replying to that if you found this funny, you must be incapable of ever “admitting” when the writing is bad.
We’re all being jerks to each other, is my implication.
Yeah it’s been pretty savage. We all want to be heard, we all want to voice our frustration or joy, our grievances or optimism. A number of people all from different walks of life and experiences who feel represented by fictional characters.
If we all agreed, it wouldn’t be life.
But still—the harshness. Like damn.
Oh I don’t mind if the joke didn’t hit for you personally, it’s the people that seem not to understand that it IS a joke that are doing my head in. Do you also take it with deadly seriousness when the roadrunner tricks Wile E. Coyote into running off a cliff
Mixing comedy and serious is an art. You can’t have weeks of everyone being “oh no this is a betrayal, what shall we do,” and then have one of those conversations by someone going full Looney Tunes and then going “suck it I win.”
I mean, you CAN, but its massive tonal whiplash, and not in an enjoyable way? It just makes me go “ok then, I guess it’s stupid to care about anything in this story.”
That’s fair! That’s a different thing from what I described and sounds like the joke just did not hit for you.
It’s been a feature of this comment section for months now that the worst examples of whatever “side” happens to be “winning” are just gloating assholes about it.
Alas.
Ok, now Walky has to be in the polycule. It’s too funny for it to not happen. Just think of the Joyce reaction. And I want to see Joe stumble through trying to explain to Danny and Sal that he’s maybe, kinda, sorta in a relationship with Walky. Specifically, I want that.
Finally, a comment that expresses what I’ve been thinking!
I had not considered this, and you make a good case as to why it’d be goddamn hilarious.
Its getting harder and harder to view Joyce as a sympathetic character.
Skill issue
Yeah probably.
People really just don’t remember how Walky has been picking on Joyce the entire run of the comic, and mocking her for being “secretly gay” for Dorothy even when it made her uncomfortable, huh?
Like Joyce’s actions could be viewed as mean, but it’s not wholly unwarranted like some people seem to think it is.
You can only prophesize so much before Apollo thinks you make a good Dodgeball Target.
And her laugh? That’s the dodgeball hitting him in the face.
If it was anyone else but Walky, this would be pretty bad. But he did the setup over time. And said so himself in panel four.
She’s also being cruel to Dorothy, not letting her break up with Walky how she wants.
Yeah. I think that’s getting ignored in the fuss over “But it’s fine for Joyce to mock Walky because he’s been picking on her”. Dorothy should not be okay with Joyce treating her (ex?)boyfriend like this. Dorothy does actually like Walky, even if she absolutely was going to dump him for Joyce. She didn’t want to be cruel about it.
Valid
Still really hate this.
Alright so I think I can vocalize my irk more.
Its not the cheating. I can handle characters being less perfect.
It’s not even Joyce being an absolute asshole about it. While yes Joyce expressing any guilt when Joe wasn’t in front of her would’ve done a lot to ease the annoyance at her, seeing someone being an asshole and then falling on their face can be funny.
Its the fact that Joyce been an absolute asshole about it and gets rewarded for it.
This entire thing to summerize is: “i love my boyfriend :). Oh no i masterbated near my friend before we were even dating i hope you don’t get mad :(.Oh you’re not not mad 🙂 <3. Oops kissed the bestie. Lol guess i don't need birth control anymore. Gonna dump Joe. Oh no hes here, he'll be sad. Wait hes not in front of me anymore so i don't even care anymore. Time to cuddle with my new girl under a blanket my boyfriend literally gave me. Oh why is my sister from another sister being so mean i just cheated on my boyfriend. Not like it was anything major. Besides it was for my girl <3.
And no I don't care if Becky will be the mad one. Becky isn't in a relationship with Joyce and was never entitled to one. Unless Becky ends sharing the voice of reason with Sarah in this story Iine and harpoons Joyce for cheating then Becky's reaction just doesn't matter to me.
They very specifically said they were not going to use Joe’s blanket, and in fact weren’t under when they woke up.
That’s the counter you have to that…
Joyce always tries to be kind when she is on level waters, but this is definitely not one of her better moments. And thus begins the Nightguy villain arc!
Going to say, this to me seems like pretty clear evidence that Joe should dump the hell out of Joyce.
She is faced with a problem, and she doesn’t talk to Joe at all about it. Instead she drops him mid conversation to go grab Dorothy. The Joyce/Joe relationship is fundamentally one sided, and Joe deserves better.
She goes grab Dorothy because this is a pretty important thing yhat concerns her and she explicitly promised Joe they continue the conversation after it.
Not important enough that she couldnt come back and gloat a bit though.
I think I’m gonna reserve judgement until we have some kind of confirmation as to exactly WHAT Joyce is sprinting around with the newspaper about, although I admit I have a hard time figuring out what might involve Dorothy but not Joe if Joyce is really expecting to have a relationship with both of them — we’ve seen Joe be friendly with Becky, for example, and there’s nothing particularly inherent about the potential conflict with Joyce’s family that’d involve Dorothy but not Joe.
She’s realised Becky, who if you’ll recall had a giant crush on her, will see her kissing another woman on the front page of the newspaper. She’s worried that will break Becky’s heart, and she doesn’t want that to be how she finds out. This is why her face fell after saying “everyone’s gonna see this” and right before running off.
(She’s also not running around with the newspaper.)
And it is absolutely more important to soothe Becky’s feelings over a crush than for Dorothy to talk to her actual boyfriend who she just cheated on and thus probably needs to break up with.
I mean it tracks. Joyce probably only went to talk to Joe first because she’s more scared of telling Becky, but it’s still lousy.
Dorothy doesn’t know about the newspaper that’s the point
Okay. And?
Because she doesn’t know about the newspaper she has to go help Joyce with Becky rather than talk to her actual boyfriend that she just cheated on? Becky is more urgent than the person directly affected?
Not gonna lie, as much as I’d like the “consequences for cheating” be more than 5 seconds of Sarah that they promptly ignored, if we spend 5 strips on Joe leading nowhere plus one on Walky for… whatever the fuck THIS is, and then spend like 10 or 20 on “Becky is sad uwu” when Becky wasn’t even in these goddamn relationships to begin with, I’m going to eyeroll so hard I’ll have to go fetch my eyeballs from under the desk after they unscrew out of the sockets and roll under there.
Dorothy IS directly affected with her being on the newspaper! Ot is a photo of her kissing a girl during a protest. It is outing her snd might land her legal troubles that is why is actually pretty important that she know this.
for Joyce, yes, it’s obviously more important.
Joyce was outed. Dorothy was outed. Joe was not outed. That’s what concerns Dorothy more than Joe.
I mean, as someone who is currently married to a trans person, “My romantic partner got outed” is absolutely something that I care a hell of a lot about, and something they’d have me help with dealing with the fallout of.
Which is to say, what you’re saying is absolutely fair but doesn’t bode well for the poly stocks if that’s what’s happening in Joyce’s head.
(various disclaimers:
– Yes, Joe and Joyce’s relationship isn’t very old.
– We don’t actually know why Joyce is concerned: being outed as bi, in general? Being outed to her parents, and the risks thereof? Jocelyn being outed? Becky’s reaction? Something else? People have expressed basically all of these as possibilities)
Someone pointed out that it’s considerate of Joe not to drag him into this like an emotional support teddy bear.
It wasn’t a point I’d considered and it interested me as a position.
I absolutely think Joe would rather be dragged, but that’s because I know about things he’s said to Amber. Joyce wasn’t privy to those conversations.
* “considerate of Joe” in that first sentence meaning “Joyce being considerate of him”
Yeah, my thought is that Joyce KNOWS he’s about the kindest guy he can be to her at this point including the conversation that just happened, and I suspect HE wouldn’t find it considerate to leave him out of helping her.
As such, IMHO poly stocks starting to waver.
🙁
It’s fine to be ok with this because it’s clearly meant to be a joke, and it’s also ok to dislike it because it’s exceptionally mean-spirited and reflects poorly on Joyce as a character. There, comment section disarmed.
Mmm nope. Not uncharitable enough.
Okay, the entire comic series’ climax is done. DoA to wrap up now. Stay tuned for Willis’s next comic series: Weren’t We S’posed To Be Smarter In Middle Age?
In the midst of a difficult, halting conversation, Joyce smooshing faces with an unexpecting Dorothy is a hoot.
How fast will the word spread about Walky’s singleness? Per Mack the Knife, I’m expecting “That line forms on the right, babe”.
It’s Sapphic!
Nah I’m good, peace.
god joyce is the fuckin best
I know this isn’t a novel observation, but. Some of y’all’re just fuckin’ mean.
There are a lot of recurring names jumping around the comment section getting there ‘neener neener neener!’s in.
all the pearl clutching about cheating went out the window when Joyce bragged to walky about it, they aren’t slick.
It’s why commenting here has become such a chore. Most of us are jerks who cant craft arguments without trying to insult to opposing party. Unfortunately thats just the sorta community this comic (and the internet at large) has started to cultivate.
yeah like, from the televised product which calls itself national “”debate”” to the shitshows on Twitter, it seems that the role of Discussion *itself* as a cooperative effort to reconcile points and arrive at the truth has unfortunately just about entirely become a foreign concept to a lot of people (at least in the United States as far as I can tell)
instead, without knowing or willing it they submit to unspoken rules such that Discussion is effectively a competition about being better than other people
Fun!
Reflecting(/Introspecting) further on this, I find I’ve learned more about my own thought processes–specifically, that when two individuals are in a rival (here serious-rival rather than friendly rival in the one direction or hostile-rival in the other direction?) relationship, “anything (below that threshold) goes”.
This could also be extended to the hostile-rival extreme (for instance blood feuds) of it being more surprising/questionable if two rivals /don’t/ try to kill each other.
To rephrase, there are actions which would be disapproval-worthy stabbing in the back for a sincere friend and “You got me! But I’ll be sure to get the upper-hand next time” for an above-board rival.
Mike comes to mind, except that Mike was an omnidirectional unwelcome [negative term], whereas this is a fairly-comfortable mutual (rival) relationship. (A Homestuck datum also comes to mind…)
Getting back to the strip, I find myself craving links of all Walky’s thoughts/words/etc. in the past which support his “Guess I always sorta knew that’d happen eventually.” now. I feel that there must have been many (or at least some), and this would be an excellent time to reread them, but I can’t remember them any more. Alas!
Sorry, Walky! It was
Joyce. All. Along.
That didn’t work…
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P8u8md-NiHM
On one hand, Joyce cutting through the entire discussion like a knife is just about peak “Joyce and Dorothy”, and a seemingly-rare instance of Joyce pushing Dorothy through something challenging, to boot.
Nor is Joyce being a dick to Walky particularly unprecedented or undeserved.
On the other hand, I’m not just getting TONE whiplash from the return of the stinger joke, I’m kinda getting pacing whiplash from more or less this whole storyline. I expect that’s an artifact of both “DoJo kinda jumped forward in time” and “rewrites due to protest discourse”.
Yeah, I’m also experiencing tone and pacing whiplash. This page is funny on its own, floating in a void, but within the current story it felt like hitting a brick wall at 100mph. I’m willing to wait and see where it goes, and hope that this is just more satisfaction delayed, but I’d really like to see an actual conversation about this get to happen.
Yeah.
I think we could have had a bit of actual Dorothy and Walky discussion followed by Joyce breaking in to do basically this and I’d be happier and the joke would land just about the same.
Nyeheheheh
Point 1: Poor Walky. (I actually adore Walky and Dorotthy together)
Point 2: Walky kind of deserved that from Joyce (not from Dorothy though), but it was still mean.
Point 3: The strip is funny as hell. Like, every panel except the first (which is just the setup) is comedy gold.
I do not approve of Joyce’s actions here.
She is being a total jackass.
Don’t worry Walky is gonna start his own, better, polycule with blackjack.
For all that our new lovers are full of new relationship energy and no one’s really surprised, this isn’t going well for them. Sarah was pissed. Joe was left hanging. Walky was discarded. They’re burning a lot of bridges all at once. Not smart. Not caring. Lots of mess still to come.
So let’s dive into why this is funny.
There are a couple of different angles.
The first is that a reader is 100% on Joyce’s side. It is an unalloyed good that Joyce establishes her dominance- that now Joyce gets to smooch Dorothy, Walky doesn’t, and his pain at no longer getting to do so is delicious.
The second is that Joyce doing this is ludicrous and out of character. That her behavior is so aberrant, so ludicrous, that it is obvious hyperbole and exaggeration of her dislike of Walky and possessiveness towards Dorothy.
The third is that Joyce is being a complete asshole and is being set up to be punished for her hubris, and the comedy comes from the satisfaction of knowing that she’s going to experience problems as a direct result of her assumptions here.
I *aggressively* don’t give a shit about Walky. How he feels about these developments is not something I care about. You’d think I might be in category 1 because of that. I’m not. I don’t actually think this is that funny.
I’m not in category 1 because even though I don’t care how Walky feels, I don’t think Joyce being a jerk to him is fun. Joyce is not Mike, she’s not in the story to be mean to characters.
I’m not in category 2 because I don’t actually think this is that out of character, at least recently. Ever since she started to actively flirt with Dorothy, Joyce has had absolutely no brakes. She didn’t connect that her long, loving look into Dotty’s eyes followed by running off with Joe would cause Dotty problems. She didn’t think about whether or not smooching in the middle of a protest was a good idea. She didn’t think about how getting together with Dorothy would affect Joe, Walky, Becky, or anyone else. She didn’t even think about how suddenly smooching a girl means a dramatic realignment of her sense of self, from “ally” to “actively queer”. And here she’s not braking her desire to rub it in Walky’s face with any sort of empathy.
So that leaves category 3. The thing is, every time in the past few months that we’ve thought something might be a problem for Joyce and Dorothy’s relationship, it’s been shunted aside. Amazi-girl saw to it that they weren’t arrested. Neither of them have any sort of reservations about suddenly being bi and getting together with their best friend. Sarah’s critique went in one ear and out the other. And both boyfriends are not being obstacles in any way. I’m not actually convinced that this behavior is something that’s going to come back to bite Joyce at all. The only remaining person who might be justifiably hurt by this is Becky, and there is plenty of evidence that she’s going to be just as OK with it as Joe. All the other potential problems are ones that aren’t the result of Joyce’s thoughtlessness but about the unwillingness of family/society to accept their relationship.
So while it’s certainly not the worst thing in the world, I don’t actually find this strip funny. It’s just Joyce being pointlessly mean and I’m not expecting any consequences from that.
I’m in “angle 4” because this strip is a Looney Tunes gag.
Gravity seems to have, for Joyce only, turned itself almost 90 degrees, so that she leaps into frame without being supported by anything below, wraps her arms around Dorothy, and yanks her as unceremoneously off screen as if by a giant stage hook. You can see that in panel 3, Dorothy’s being pulled faster than gravity would allow her to fall. Then she pops up, two frames later, AGAIN suspended in midair, to gloat.
If you told me that gravity HAD turned 90 degrees for Joyce only, and she had positioned a giant trampoline in the hallway on the wall directly across from Walky’s room, and was bouncing on said trampoline in order to get into Walky’s room, I’d say, “Ah, yes, that actually makes sense.”
Ok this legit made me chuckle.
same i love this thought and hope someone with artitic talents that i lack would be willing to animate this for the laughs
Nice made up thing you got there.
Neighbor, I’m not saying it’s a problem if you think this is the funniest comic in history. But if you do, can you honestly say that your reason isn’t one of the 4 listed (Borkx3 legit made me laugh with their reason) before you accuse me of making something up?
Yes, because i don’t a reason to find it funny i just do. Like i do with a lot of things. It’s a funny scene and fell yhe intended way it was written for, it’s literally not more deeper than that
“It’s funny because it’s funny” isn’t an answer, neighbor. We as readers should be able to articulate *why* something is funny.
Sorry you cannot decide what is and isn’t an answer and what a reader should be able to do. And stop calling me neighbor.
1) what’s your problem with “neighbor”?
2) I didn’t accept your answer because it wasn’t an answer, it was a tautology. Humor being subjective doesn’t mean you can’t explain it. I offered my attempt at explaining it, you have essentially gone “nu-uh!”.
In other words, I’m inviting you to put your money where your mouth is. You say that I’m incorrect when I say why people find this strip funny? Prove it. Tell me why you find this strip funny and why it’s different from the reasons I articulated.
I don’t like it being called that by someone i dislike especially if i fell they are being condescending about it.
And i already told you what i think, there is literally nothing else on it for me to tell you.
This is a little broad and lofty, isn’t it? It not only creates a “we” category with implications of togetherness, it also invents an obligation of diligence (“should be able to”) and implicitly diminishes those who don’t follow the expected behavior (“articulate *why* something is funny”) by treating them as willful participants in “we” and its implied obligations, who are now perceived as misbehaving.
I think it’s appropriate for people who are discussing a comic to be able to back up their assertions with evidence if they want me to listen.
If all Nandamas has to offer is a claim that I’m wrong, why should I have to give that credence without asking them to back it up?
Big “We are all gathered here today to bear witness” energy in the chat right now.
This isn’t a court of law. Fuck evidence, fuck credence, and fuck backing up assertions, they’re not a requirement. People don’t have to justify their amusement to you like they’re defending themselves in a courtroom.
Let’s be honest if this was a court i would pledged guilty already just to not deal with any of it.
Because they laughed and you didn’t so ( shrug).
This is so dorky, contrived reddit brained over the top nonsense.
I thought you were doing a bit.
“These are the reasons people find this funny i decided as the high arbiter of comedy”
So that’s a no? You can’t explain why you think it’s funny without admitting that I got it right?
I’m not “the high arbiter of comedy”, I’m engaging in media literacy and criticism because I’m in a meeting that I’ve been in 4 times before and I’m bored out of my skull.
You already decided that you are right so whatever i respond wouldn’t really matter. I just you are being pretentious in thinking you can be so sure about why people fond something funny and some of your acertations fell a lot like projections.
Neighbor, if you have a different reason why you think this strip is funny, please, for the love of Batman, tell me. I’d be happy to listen.
But I didn’t pull those 3 modes out of my ass, I used 30+ years of consuming comedy and years of reading this particular comic as a basis.
We’ve seen examples of #1 with, just off the top of my head, literally any time anyone interacts with Mary. #2 has been the source of most of the humor Joyce gives us throughout the strip: her anxiety and naivete causes her to wildly overcompensate for comedic effect. #3 is just a classic of comedy. You see it in this comic with characters like Jennifer in particular, but outside of it I could point to how Team Four Star wrote Vegeta in DBZA as well as the entire character of George Costanza.
I already give you my answer and yoi decided it doesn’t count so it doesn’t seem like there is anything else for me to say.
Where?
@Yotomoe
I presume when they said “Yes, because i don’t a reason to find it funny i just do. Like i do with a lot of things. It’s a funny scene and fell yhe intended way it was written for, it’s literally not more deeper than that”, which I’m interpreting as “It’s funny because it’s funny”.
A different perspective of why this is funny:
First layer: contrast between the seriousness of the Joe/Joyce conversation and this loony toons treatment
Second layer: Joyce/Joe has been treated as narratively more serious than Dorothy/Walky v2 (which has been going on for about a week), so the assumption that it would/should be treated with the same seriousness is kind of funny.
Third layer: Joyce is being mean here in a way that is a hyper-exaggeration of her and Walky’s usual dynamic related to this relationship dynamic. It’s a call-back joke
Fourth layer: Pathos! While normally it would be easy to be like “ah Walky shrugging it off as a joke as usual” the punctuation of the “Haha” panel forces the reader to re-engage with Walky’s interior emotions… emotions that it would be out-of-character for him to immediately visibly display!
I could go on, but this is my five minute first thoughts.
That’s valid.
Guy who doesn’t think it’s funny.
Writes 300 words on what makes it funny
Maybe you are the wrong one for the assignment
Oh my Cheese this is perfect.
This is mean, but I don’t care, because petty Joyce is hilarious. Also, it’s not like Walky hasn’t been asking for this by mocking Joyce about her feelings for Dorothy since about the second week of school. The most surprising thing is that Joyce apparently reads Walky’s comic.
A crucial difference between Walky and Joe is that! They both figured out (because you could see it from space) that Joyce and Dorothy had feelings for each other. Joe talked with Dorothy about that reality and made space for it. Walky mocked Joyce for it.
Still kinda harsh but in context it is understandable.
I don’t know why my regular Darkwing Duck gravatar didn’t show here but since It’s Walky why not
That’s a very good point of contrast between those two.
Ding ding ding ding ding! This is exactly it! Joe and Walky had separate set up and payoffs, both of which have been set up and executed well(I think). I don’t normally wade into the comments section, but there’s a stunning amount of bad faith criticism from about a quarter of the commenters here.
That feels pretty cruel… though I may be colored by the fact of who those two were in the other universe.
Once again, not saying I “called it” because this is one of like 18 things I predicted and you only get to be smug if you had ONE, but I did realize like a month ago, and comment to the effect that, chaos gremlins hoping specifically for Messy Breakups might be disappointed SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE as Willis has occasionally demonstrated, they’re really very vanilla.
They have been saying they blew up their comic strip and that they wanted to show messy breakups and cheating, and at some point I took a step back and went, “Uh-oh. What if their version of that is STILL gonna be like Joyce and Jacob’s cheating, where some of us were left going, ‘That’s it? I mean… technically…'”
Genuine sympathy to everyone who was hoping for something more explosive.
MIND YOU, I still think the jury is out on how okay Joe actually is, and I still don’t think this is the sum total of Walky’s reaction — I think he might be repressing heavily and that we might be about to see him on his own downward, karaoke-singing spiral. And, of course, if The Gang Attempts a Polyamory, more mess will be incoming.
But in terms of messy breakups, I think this might be it.
Side note: I AM NOT THROWING SHADE, WILLIS.
If I’m right, I think it’s sweet if this by you is messy breakup drama. Genuinely!! I think it’s at least a LITTLE bit on those of us who are familiar with your other thoughts on relationships and stuff for not taking that into account when we got our hopes up (and that’s me included!).
Like, when evaluating any promise made by an author, we should all remember the source, and that words might mean different things to the person speaking.
I feel kind of the same way I did when someone showed me the Futurama episode with Fry’s dog. Because I knew it had a massive reputation as THE saddest thing ever, I spent the whole thing braced for it to get worse and worse and worse; the whole time, conjuring this Spectre in my mind, GUESSING at future plot developments, prepared to sob: and then the episode ended, and I didn’t cry.
I cry really easily, especially when unmedicated. But I had built it up so much in my head that I wound up almost disappointed at the end. What was I even expecting that could have been worse than the actual end? I don’t know! But I definitely wound up with unmet expectations of some sort, more confused than emotionally wrecked, and it had nothing to do with the episode itself.
I don’t think it’s unreasonable when an author says they’re treading new ground creatively and then gives us basically more of the same.
To be disappointed*
Teach me to post while also working…
I didn’t mean to say it was unreasonable!
I personally feel silly for not clocking this possibility earlier than I did, because I have a LOT of high octane gremlin predictions from before it occurred to me and I’m a little embarrassed of them. But I am not trying to say anyone else should feel embarrassed.
I’m actually wracking my brain now because I KNOW Willis brought up a specific example of a thing years and years ago, where readers had expected much more than they got, but I’m NOT actually sure it as Jacob and Joyce cheating…
Bleh.
Anyway, sorry for implying it was unreasonable to be disappointed. What I meant was more like “20/20 hindsight, now it’s obvious that we should have known ‘messy breakups’ wouldn’t be that messy.”
I will also eat crow tomorrow if the comic takes a turn that forecasts Actually, Much More Mess.
I love horrible gremlin Joyce
Joyce is a shining ray of light.
Do you know who else is a shining ray of light? Exactly, Lucifer.
what.
i just like horrible gremlins.
Why is everyone taking this so well!? I’m hoping Becky has a scandalized response so I can work through these feelings!
Also, the inclusion of Dorothy makes me think she’s going to try to snatch up all the newspapers on campus before others can see them as opposed to directly confronting this. I foresee a wide shot with students all reading the paper while walking in the quad dashing her plans though.
because if fits with the context of the strip and past character behaviors.
forget 15 years of setup, count the walkyverse
Semi-amusing thing here is that neither Joyce nor Dorothy actually had to confess to their boyfriends. Joyce was preempted by Joe having seen the newspaper and Dorothy by Joyce bursting in.
They both went to do it but neither actually had to get the words out.
I just feel this storyline is all over the road tonally and narratively
It’s a difficult balance to strike between taking the subject matter seriously and allowing for moments of levity to break up the tension, and while Willis is often very good at that, this storyline in particular has felt sloppier than their best.
Adjacent to this strip, can Walky get a fucking win at some point? Jesus Christ January has been so rough on the poor guy.
*Loads page*
*Briefly considers looking at comments*
*Notices the comment count right under the strip is at like 800*
*Runs away in terror*
*a terrified Dalek follows, screeching “E-VAC-U-ATE!!”, flailing its little plunger arm and gun-stick*
Anyway my take is that Walky has literally spent fifteen real-world years giving Joyce shit about being into Dorothy. He kinda walked right into this.
I don’t like leaving negative comments, because I know they suck to read. But I think this comic has tone problems. It’s kind of the style of comic Willis is probably going for, since they’ve always kind of had this “problem” in their other works, but what I’m saying is there’s a reason people get so tilted at DoA characters in particular. We give Joe a deep serious scene about his enormous baggage in this relationship, and then we do a joke about Walky clearly going through a similar breakdown.
Couldn’t have put it better myself
Man, I don’t know how I’m supposed to feel. This scenario isn’t that funny, and these characters have tonal whiplash that makes Joe and Walky feel like non-characters. They have no agency or interests.
hey that’s my name!
(but I’m pretty sure people will be able to tell us apart on account of you having a real (gr)avatar)
anyway yeah, tonal whiplash is a good way to describe it
So, Willis seized on the Sickos vs. Paladins gag and ran with it to the point that it’s been an ongoing thing for over a month, with some commenters brandings themselves as “sickos” if they were in favor of the cheating story because they wanted all the drama. Now that we’re here, I gotta say… If you’re enjoying how Willis has chosen to write Joe and Walky responding to the news of Joyce and Dorothy cheating, you can turn in your sicko badge. This is the most toothless, consequence free cheating that I can recall seeing in fiction. Two of the main cast were cheated on, and one gently endorsed it with the request to consider poly, and the other shrugged it off. If Joyce and Dorothy had pulled back from the initial kiss and immediately gone to break up with their boyfriends, we’d still be right here.
Willis isn’t a sicko, they just wanted to speedrun to the part where they get to write Joyce and Dorothy in a relationship. This is just being a relationship paladin for a different ship! I was all ready to get down with the sickness and everything!
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My assumption is there’s plenty of drama ahead but it’s not from the expected places.
I never cared about drama, it was just a funny bit to do i just like whatever Willis decides to do.
I never picked up a badge from either table. I’m that one person who managed to slip into the venue by saying “Hey sorry, I’m back. Just needed to get something out of my car.” right as a large group of paying attendees had the door guy occupied. It helps that I managed to purchase and change into an appropriate, simple, and popular costume right away, and with so many other people wearing it, “Friendly, slightly awkward queer with long brown hair and a weird voice” hasn’t been a helpful distinguishing feature.
I admit all of this so casually now because it’s already the second half of the day and I managed to befriend the only pair of people who happened to see me infiltrate the event. I’ve been attending panels and perusing the merch tables with them all day.
Drama wasn’t the only thing I wanted. This is not the drama I wanted, although I’m still holding out for The Gang Attempts a Polycule going disastrously!
But also I got Canonically Bi Joyce and Dorothy, I got Joe Suggests a Polycule; it’s hard for me personally not to be more satisfied than I am disappointed.
Also I picked a side because I was opposed to the particular thread of Relationship Paladin that kept aggressively insisting that “if you’re not upset about fictional cheating, you must be okay with real-life cheating”. I took up arms against them, not “for” any specific other cause.
The secret is that the “Relationship Paladins” whose position was “man, that’s really a dick move to do to Joe/Walky” without any specific real-life implications attached kinda also disliked those guys.
Meanwhile, you and Astariel have defined out opposing “sicko” positions in consecutive comments.
Honestly, you have to laugh.
Hey, I picked the sickos because I wanted to see Joyrothy smooching, and that’s it. I’m perfectly happy not to have to deal with big drama. More time for smooching. Honestly, wanting a lot of drama seems more like a paladin thing. ‘The cheating must be punished with consequences,’ and all that.
This exactly!
Really, that’s half the problem with the stupid dichotomy — it’s like eighteen different dichotomies wearing two ill-fitting trenchcoats.
Signed, a “relationship paladin” who is happy these two are actually fuckin’ talking to their boyfriends and dealing with the fallout. Sort of.
As someone who has read every single comic from the original Roomies, to It’s Walky, Joyce & Walky, & Shortpacked, this is such a moment. I obviously want the comic to still continue on for years, but in some ways, if it ended right now (with a wrap-up epilogue) that would also make a lot of sense. 😉 lolol
I was reading this in public and spent 5 minutes trying not to burst out laughing.
I can’t believe this silly and stupid strip will reach the 1k comments milestone.
never underestimate the paladins
This is a joint effort for sure. If we weren’t all arguing with each other, it wouldn’t have near this many comments.
Also, plenty of the folks who are upset at this comic aren’t actually paladins. A certain segment of sickos is upset at the drama deflation, and even more just plain don’t like how Walky is being treated here.
I thought it was funny, but I absolutely understand people who don’t agree, and they’re not all relationship paladins by any stretch.
The whole stupid binary was a mistake.
That’s what I’ve been saying!! Worst thing to happen to this comment section.
Like most binaries I’ve encountered, it only brings out the worst in people. Even the expressions of camaraderie are tainted, because at the end of the day they’re nothing more complex than “Haha, we’re not them, isn’t it great not to be them?”.
That’s EXACTLY what people have been doing, yeah
Oof that last bit sure hits home on multiple fronts.
Well maybe THEY do that, but surely WE have the moral high ground.
The only untainted sentiment left is “random hostility, untouched by paladin/sicko thoughts.” In that vein, you smell like toenail cheese.
Yeah all our fault for wanting to see anything actually get a resolution
https://www.tumblr.com/dumbingofage/793047717824839680/this-is-just-to-say?source=share
Willis has no regrets and i respect that a lot
i think i will finish my morning of commenting here with this.
let us say both joyce and dorothy did spend the necessary time to confess their sins and discuss with their partners what comes next for them. they both end upp spending the next 45-60 minutes maturely dealing with the mess they have created. joyce mom sees the paper, she is confirmed still in the area, get together with her congregation to do something about it. and arrives on campus while the girls are doing the right thing, and harm is cause to someone because of it. maybe carol sees becky and dina walking holding hands and the congregation attacks them.
or maybe joyces dad sees it, tries to contact joyce, can’t and makes assumptions and initiates the process to withdraw his finacial support. maybe carol sees jocelin in the background and goes after her.
yet by acting immediatly upon seeing the picture she is able get things sorted, they are able to go to becky and deal with that fallout, maybe they notify jocylin so she can be prepared, maybe joyce calls her dad and is able to keep her funding.
if any of those events were to occur while they were being better people to their (ex)boyfriends, would that trauma not be even more severe than leaving their relationships in a messy state. like if joyce spending extra time with joe to discuss what they want going forward lead to her being unable to warn jocylin lead to harm to jocelyn would that not break her. i am not here to say she asnt caused harm to joe or walky here, but the order of magnitude compared to the potential harm that could result from this pic is far greater than hurt feelings in their relationships
If that is the concern there’s actually no reason to not involve Joe. Send out a text chain or something. If this is coming from a fear they’re gonna have a militia after them I wouldn’t be running off with just Dorothy. I would be letting every person explicitly know my status, wherabouts and perhaps warning anyone I know that’s personally connected. Walky was literally kidnapoed because of Becky’s dad. I feel like he deserves to know that his life is imminently in danger once again due to religious cult activity. I feel like there is no need to he secretive with everyone if this is her foremost concern.
yes but we are dealing with emotional hormaonal teenagers, anddorothy is the one she trusts most, so grabbing her and starting from there feels resonable to me. add dorothys untreated PTSD to the events of the lastfew strips and you get a recipe for poor decision making
Then I’m still gonna call her out for prioritizing being mean to Walky in this situation.
I love using hypotheticals that writers have full control of as an excuse for remove any and all tension from any scene that could have it because no ones allowed to get upset at Joyce and Dorothy except for fucking Sarah I guess
Joyce written by Michael Bay
I love her more now
Aren’t Walky and Joyce a couple in another universe?
Yes, their relationship is the heart of It’s Walky! and Joyce and Walky!
They’re also both very different people there.
I agree with many that Joyce us being a sub Saharan antelope with stripes. I would love to see more people besides Sarah calling them out fir this…I don’t know maybe Jennifer. That would be neat. Her lashing ot at Joyce for being a duck to Walky. “Only I and Sal can be mean to him.” Maybe Dotty can give Joyce some guff for that. Maybe Dorothy and Jennifer can team up and call out Daisy..along with other people who work on the paper. Maybe we can also check in on Asma. Is she okay? Also is Carla okay? She had a lot dumped on her.
*smacks head* Dick mot duck! Though now I do wanna see Joyce being a duck and quaking at Walky.
..
What’s wrong with springboks ?
wow she turned into an asshole
like this is just straight up malice, when was even the last time that Walky antagonized Joyce? and even in those interactions, was he ever as mean as this? he never laughed in her face when her relationships failed, even when he was right in predicting that she wouldn’t have a happy ending with a gay guy like Ethan
The very last strip they appeared in together, excluding that one trauma flashback Dorothy had. Joyce was trying to help him with math and he decided to chide her about her sheltered upbringing.
Math is an extremely well-known sore spot for Walky. Why does only Joyce get given grace about her snipes at Walky?
That conversation opened with Walky asking for help with math (apparently for the 5 billionth time) and got immediately derailed by Walky directing attention to the fact that Joyce doesn’t really know who Taylor Swift is. How is that in any way Joyce’s fault?
Walky is antagonising Joyce all the time. He also jokes about Joyce being gay for Dorothy all the time.
Something I don’t really “get” (even though I do) is the combination of criticism that Willis is just doing this for the Patreon dollars, as evidenced by an increase in subs, and also that Willis is just doing whatever he wants, as evidenced by the post that this happening now (instead of later) comes down to basically a whim while drawing.
And there’s a certain sentiment of ‘betraying the [rest of the] fanbase’ and ‘selling out’ behind these criticisms, but at the same time, like… Fuckin great? Imagine writing and drawing the thing you want to see in this world, that makes you personally happy, and getting paid more for doing so?? Is that not hashtag #goals???
(this is not related to anyone’s particular comments today, just a thought that’s been percolating from… *waves hand vaguely*)
Even in panic mode because of Becky, getting her shots in at Walky takes priority I see
Yes. Hahaha, yes!
https://www.tumblr.com/dumbingofage/793058498981363712/gotta-say-i-just-do-not-understand-the-folks?source=share
Would get sue and got his narrative license revoke, got to move out of state to practice narrative because the system for punishing malpractice is kinda feeble.
A moment like this was inevitable, but what was not inevitable was having it happen in place of seeing Dorothy and Wally actually talk and getting Wally’s reaction to that conversation. That is a specific creative choice that is more than worthy of criticism.
It’s just not written well.
Willis is an excellent writer, but this isn’t their craft at its best.
There is a character that becomes evil at the end of Game of Thrones. The fan reaction to that would have been better, if it was well written and given more time to cook.
There are many ways to get to the same plot points
You just love to chuck these tumblr links in here like live grenades, dontcha.
How could you tel? 😁
Well, you know what they say… a bullet has your name on it, whoel a grenade is “to whom it may concern.” 😆
This is just turning Dumbing of Age into Star Wars. “oh, it’s so much better/makes so much more sense if you read the tie-in novels and watch the TV series that takes place between robble robble robble…”
The hell you are talking about?
It’s perfectly clear to me: a work of published, public art stands or falls on its own merits for most readers. You linking to Willis’ tumbler is basically the same as Star Wars dorks dragging in outside works or context or authorial intent rather than just reading the comic as it stands.
Oh okay you are being dumb that explains it. Wherever on purpose or not i can’t really tell.
I see what you mean, Z. That’s probably a pretty good rule of thumb. Supplementary material should enhance your enjoyment of the main event, but as a wise man said “you don’t hand the audience a fucking glossary as they walk into the theatre.”
And I say that as a guy who regularly devours supplementary material for the stories he loves.
Also just like, Death of the Author.
It’s interesting! But ofc it doesn’t replace “text that more clearly conveyed that message”, or w/e applies in a specific case.
Ok, i still what does have anything to do with the link i posted here.
Oh okay you are being dumb that explains it. Wherever on purpose or not i can’t really tell.
Dotty appears very pleased with this development
wait people actually find this funny? this just leaves me feeling cold in the stomach. I cannot fathom laughing at this unless you already hate Walky and/or considered him merely an obstacle, because yikes.
a situation like this might be funny if the guy losing the girlfriend to cheating was someone who didn’t deserve her in the first place by being abusive; or heck maybe just not appreciating her enough. I might have laughed if this situation had played out when Lucy was Walky’s girlfriend. But Dorothy was, in his own words, the perfect girlfriend (that he somehow walked ass backwards into dating). the one that made him want to better himself, the one who accepted his flaws when his grades were slipping, the one he truly connected with to the point that they immediately rekindled the second that the opportunity came.
I don’t think Dorothy and Walky were soulmates or that their relationship would even last until the end of their degrees. but they genuinely connected and were vulnerable with each other in ways they weren’t with others.
He deserves better than being laughed at in the face while being broken up with
Narratively, I don’t find it funny, but I do think that looked at on its own, the page is silly.
I personally don’t think he was thaaat invested in this round of dating Dorothy, but the Joyce laughing and stuff feels unnecessarily mean even if he is alright with it, and also I don’t love the witch from running out of Joe’s room to tell Dorothy about the paper, then after grabbing Dorothy, popping back into Walky’s room just to laugh at him? And I know there need to be breaks in tension now and then but it feels like an uncomfortable place for it.
I don’t hate Walky yet i find this funny anyway 🤷
Right? Why does one need to have any dislike of Walky to find this whole bit funny? I have nothing against Walky, he’s fine by me… he’s not my most favorite character (that would be Becky and Dina, because duh.) The only characters I have ever hated we Blaine and Toedad. Walky isn’t in the same galaxy as either of them.
*were
This seems debatable. Where’s your evidence?
If you can’t explain why happened to the video of you reacting with laughter why should we believe it.
It’s well known trope a picture is worth a thousand words, yet you didn’t even come close to 999.
What theory of humor are you even invoking. You just can’t write lol on the Internet and expect believers. If you aren’t a guru leading a laughing cult meditation sect ( it’s real. ) 700 words is very doable.
/S
I have been pro Walky/Dorothy as well as liking both characters on their own for the entire time I’ve read the comic. I still find this hilarious considering how Joyce and Walky have tended to poke at each other.
One of Walky’s earliest jokes in response to “I don’t feel like I get any time with my best friend since she’s dating you” was “Next time we kiss, I’ll let you pretend you’re me.” Absolutely savage, just like this. That’s just how they are with each other.
I imagine Walky will want a better explanation from Dorothy but also gets that they might possibly have more pressing issues to deal with (especially if he saw the paper).
Dick move on Joyce’s part in the last panel. Liking her less as the story arc progresses. Walky didn’t deserve that.
Have you forgotten how Walky has treated Joyce since the story began?
No, see, Walky is a man so he’s just trying to show he likes her.
Oh dang, came back to check on this and it has since broken 1,000 comments. We got a live one in here!
Hey we are past 1000! That’s good right? I wasn’t paying attention
AND IT JUST KEEPS RISING!!!!
*plays “A Moment For Shuddering” from Dragon Ball Z on hacked muzak*
Dang. This place blew up.
1009 just now. Pf. Well, I’m pretty sure no-one will bother with this. Oh, well.
Anyway, I was just thinking that since we’re currently in comedic mode, Becky’s reaction could be something like this:
Becky: [screams at top of lungs] JOYCE!?!? DOTTY!?!? HOW COULD YOU?!?!
Becky: . . .
Becky: [in normal tones] . . . is what I woulda said if I hadn’t been expectin’ and pushin’ this for months now.
Becky: Dina, let’s go hang in your room.
Becky: [over her shoulder] You can use one of my socks!
In reality, Becky will probably have mixed feelings about the situation, given that it’s yet another example of the fluidity of sexuality.
something i really resent is that internet comments sections like these make me feel like a boomer because i finally understand the feeling of “you people are taking this too seriously.” its a comic. its gonna have slapstick somewhere. as a fictional character, joyces last panel reaction is the payoff after YEARS of walky’s end panel punchlines at joyce’s expense re: dorothy and her. its fucking funny and a GOOD EXAMPLE OF LONG FORM COMIC PAYOFF. christ!!!
Some people are acting like these fictional characters are real people and get personally offended when they do anything bad.
And some people are acting like they can’t tell the difference between “I dislike these characters on their own merits”/”I think this was tone whiplash” and “I’m offended because I conflate reality and fiction”.
Its getting so fucking annoying I’m tired of being nice about it.
And it’s an anchor to any emotional tension that was being built up for the past what 2-3 months?
Like, it can be both that and a bad thing cause it kills any tension
You may have seen it coming, Walky, but I didn’t.
I’m a new-comer here, I just joined a few weeks ago, upon which I read through the entire Dumbiverse and Walkyverse archives (yes, I need a life). But, back to my point, I really didn’t see it coming. Joyce is an obnoxiously friendly person who is extremely possessive of her friends. While I understand Walky’s immature reaction to it, I don’t see how her relationship with Dorothy differs from her other friends.
As to Dorothy, her gut was right, this patronizing (matronizing?) behavior as a reaction to the previous semester’s trauma.
This does not detract from my finding this particular strip hilarious.
tbh I think that even though this is comedy, there’s also real pathos and strong characterization in the way Walky seems to accept his fate. It plays into both his self-deprecation and his sincere-but-understated compassion. Panel 4 might be one of my favorites.
Huh. Over 1,000 comments again. Wouldn’t have predicted that at 12:20 a.m. this morning.
My friend whod doesn’t read this comic said this about this comment section and i ad to share it:
“Man, it’s like YouTube except you have only one topic to fight over. Sounds boring.”
I feel like this entire arc at this point has had no other point than to get Dorothy and Joyce smooching while ignoring literally everything else at any possible chance
How did I know that this comic would end up with nearly a thousand comments of people acting like fucking babies.
Man most of these comments are people complaining about the comments.
Because they really suck.
Worse than the flaws of the storyline
I don’t see it. Maybe its cause I’m super late but aside from a few people being snippy to each other I don’t see the extreme takes others are bringing up (not saying they’re not there, theres 1k+ comments for petes sake)
I don’t know, I’m busy working
This is peak comedy
observation: regardless of how one feels about how Dumbing of Age is written I think the comments feel like a microcosm of the broader proshipper/antishipper internet gang war in that no matter how bad faith and abusive pros can be, nobody gives better arguments against the anti position than antis themselves
I keep finding myself wishing the site had a function to sort comics by number of comments. As far as I know the only way is to go and check them all manually. I’m so curious how many of these recent comics are breaking into the top ten or so.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/category/comic/?orderby=comment_count
There ya go.
Didn’t know about that, thanks!
I’m surprised the 2nd place is a strip about Toedad, and I’m afraid to find if people were defending him ..
Like I get there’s new stakes with Becky and Joyces parents but like. IDK.
This whole arc feels kinda fucking pointless if any escalation is just going to end with the characters going “okay I’m fine with this carry on.”
At this point I’m expecting us to get to Carol and for her to suddenly be okay with a lot of things very quickly
Willis, apologies. My finger slipped and I hit “report post” on a random utterly harmless comment instead of the link in the comment, and with 1000+ comments I can’t even find it anymore. Again, not intentional, sorry about that.
You don’t have to worry reports don’t actually go to Willis comments get deleted automatically if like a dozen people report it and nobody gets notified about it
I think I’m’a avoid reading the comments on this one!!!
Yeah I think I’m gonna just stop reading the comic period. I can’t keep myself from reading the comments and they make me frankly miserable. I also don’t really like the comic anymore so yeah.
how is this possible?
I find it completely baffling that so many people could see a story about two people who’ve been platonically in love with each other for their entire adult lives coming to the mutual realization that said love is romantic and sexual as well, and concluding that the most important part of that story should be the reactions of their week-long boyfriends.
Yeah… The degree to which people think romantic relationships should more important than anything else in someone’s life can be truly absurd.
“Always gonna steal your thunder
Watch me like a dark cloud
On the move collecting numbers
I’ma take your girl out
We will be everything that we’d ever need
Don’t tell me, tell me what I feel
I’m real and I don’t feel like boys
I’m real and I don’t feel like boys
Saw your face, heard your name, gotta get with you
Girls like girls like boys do, nothing new
Isn’t this why we came? Gotta get with you
Girls like girls, like boys do, nothing new
Girls like girls, like boys do, nothing new”
Girls Like Girls by Hayley Kiyoko
I kinda love this and kinda hate it. It’s a conflicting situation. Lol
Dang this storyline just keeps dropping Joyce down the totem pole of likeable doesn’t it lol
There’s Dumbing of Age and then there’s being dumb at ALL times
I don’t really see what the big deal is. This is pretty in line with everyone’s established characterization here.
Walky has had multiple breakups before, for even messier reasons sometimes, and his reaction has usually always been similarly lowkey. That’s Walky. This isn’t even the first time Dorothy specifically has broken up with him.
It also makes sense he’d have seen this coming and resigned himself to expecting it. Walky has been one of the most vocal characters about noticing Joyce’s unsubtle repressed crush on Dorothy, often in ways that are deliberately trying to demean, upset, and/or antagonize Joyce. Most of their relationship dynamic is Walky being a smugly dismissive jackass that purposefully riles her up for his own amusement. This is why Joyce genuinely just dislikes Walky as a person, and is why she willingly antagonize him here. This is a sort of karmic irony returning Walky’s usual energy to Joyce back at him.
*sigh* Joyce. a note: Walky is a human person with feelings.
Yeah, that’s why she came back to laugh. You can’t lord victory over inanimate objects.
Joyce has been so cartoonishly cruel to Walky for a good minute now in a comic that rarely lets that kind of punchline lie forever without repercussion.