it is very fun how many ppl in the comments tell on themselves with their “well if it’s poly it has to be a giant mess because monogamy is the One True Relationship Style”
Nnno. It’s a mess because it’s these specific characters. ‘I hope it all just works out’ would be shallow. Daring to hope that these kids get together entails dealing with their clusterfuck of issues. It’s not like monogamy’s been going great for any of them.
This comic has a stable polycule, and they come up approximately never, because that’s a shenanigan-poor environment.
yeah, that’s the thing, for any relationship to work in the long run, you need to already have good relationship skills like emotional intelligence and communicating your needs and feelings instead of hiding them and just hoping for the best… polyamory can get messy because it multiplies the amount of possible needs and feelings and situations to make communication necessary, and that will fail if you don’t communicate well.
Monogamy will *also* fail if you don’t communicate well, but poly gives you the unique opportunity to hurt several partners all at once. (ok, so does cheating in monogamy… at least in poly, there’s a chance not to hurt everyone, if you only do things that were negotiated as okay)
Doesn’t the other comic have multiverse shenanigans?
If so, then the chance of a Jennifer/Billie ship isn’t 0 (depending on if they’d consider it, incest, masturbation, or a regular relationship).
I wish I could remember where Yoto’s DoA archive was.
After the Imgur archive went down, he moved everything to a new site and posted the link, but I forgot to bookmark it… 😔
A comprehensive list of most of my DOA fanart over the years. Please note the views and content expressed in this fanart may go back at least a decade and may not express the current views and attitudes of modern day Yoto.
Honestly, if all of this entire Dorothy/Joyce ship is just slow-burn setup for Dorothy to cheat on Joyce and hook up with Jennifer and Joyce wind up back with Joe, that would be amazing.
I had a lot of self-loathing when I was younger due to not being able to think it was ok to be attracted to people regardless of gender, and that I was a freak for even having those thoughts.
Don’t think I loathed myself, but i got a lot af really neg reaction. Fortunately, being bi, the opp sex was there for me. Such that I didn’t even click to being bi for decades of life!
Billie and Walky are so clearly, explicitly coded as siblings that it feels almost laughable to argue against it. Just because Billie keeps running from it doesn’t make it not true.
Give it time; Billie/Jennifer might be running from her bisexuality right now, but I think she will learn to embrace it in the not too distant future. For her, won’t be too far into the future, but for us it’s going be another 2 1/2 years before we circle back around to that.
The answer is Lestat de Lioncourt. It doesn’t matter what we’re talking about, Lestat is the biggest gay disaster of all time. Even his mother will tell you that, and they had a relationship.
I love Dorothy, but nobody bemoans Dorothy’s mistakes more than Dorothy, and nobody learns less from any of them, or at least, how to apply lessons learned.
It does get irritating when she. I don’t really know how to put it, defaults to the script? See, dotty has a script for every social interaction (very relatable, how did this woman ever think she was NT). She has a list in her head of the Correct™ things to say and do in any given situation. It ties in a bit with the white liberal politics but it goes beyond that. That’s not to say she doesn’t mean what she says but it can feel ingenuine. Like it’s been passed through a PR team already. She’s terrified of ever saying the Wrong™ thing, and I get that, I’m fully there, but it makes her talk to people in ways that just, feels bad.
Its the Correct™ thing to acknowledge the ways in which she’s hurt Walky, but she still hasn’t recognized and addressed the underlying issues at the root of her behavior. This quirk of hers feels, the most annoying when Walky is involved since he’s such an unserious person and because he’s the biggest victim of this behavior so far. It really highlights the, stiltedness of these responses. And he doesn’t like it, no one wants their first love to talk to them like a politician putting out a mandatory response to a tragedy. Its something I kinda hope gets worked on
Oh my god. That’s Dorothy’s problem. She thinks she is the obnoxious smug liberal Hillary Clinton expy everyone treats her as, and she thinks she’s not allowed to be more/doesn’t deserve it, and doesn’t realize existing as a human being will make her a whole round person whether she likes it or not.
I think that’s a good way to put it. She knows that she should feel remorse for how she treats Walky, and to some degree she certainly does, but she never connects this knowledge with an actual change in behavior, especially when doing so in this case would have precluded her from being able to have Joyce, something she wanted desperately. Genuinely, it’s a very compelling character flaw, and one I hope gets more actual focus beyond Dorothy constantly bringing it up and then not following up on it
Glad someone is actually calling Dorothy on how she treated Walky besides Dorothy herself doing her extremely annoying pattern of acknowledging how she keeps hurting him, feeling bad about it, and then continuing to do it anyway.
It’s not like Billie is actually a good friend to Walky. She’s just going to see him to make herself feel like a hero, and because her “cool kids” friend group is unbearably toxic.
I think people just generally forget that all three of the walkerton kids (yes billy included), are pretty emotionally stunted.
Walky tends to fully shut away from his honest feelings, Sal lets them fester and Billy often lashes out. Especially since she, like Sal is in a way trying to escape her past.
Like I can sorta see how people only see Billy as that kinda alphadog problemsolver with a very toxic side that pushes people away but she so clearly cares about Walky still and its frustrating that people just kinda toss that side of her fully to the sideline to paint her as some kind of one-dimensional character.
Billie is not Walky’s sister. Sal is Walky’s sister. Walky and Jen first met on a school bus. They’ve been friends, more or less, on and off, since childhood, but they are not siblings, and this insistence that they are is getting a little weird.
jennifer met walky at the busstop, billy spent 12 years as walky’s adaopted sister (he and sal joke about it and every thing) i think it was even mentioned that “the 3 walkerton kids” was a thing at school pre-sal getting sent out of state. and once sal was sent away billie stepped into the full sister role. she spent so muh time with walky she has intimate knowledge of starwars characters from non movie media, so yeah we call her walky and sal’s sister cause that is the dynamyc they themselves have adopted.
i do not have the patience to go on an archive dive, but i was fairly certain walky and billie talk strwars in the early strips, walky is more into dexter and monkey, but was definately as knowledgable as billy regarding starwars (my memory says she comments about only knowing starwars stuff cause of hanging with walky so much
Direct that criticism at Willis then, they’ve been called basically siblings and Billie the third walkerton child (or preferred daughter) multiple times. Sal and Billie aren’t even close and she’s referred to her as one of the siblings before
Jennifer can be a shitty friend and she invests a lot in her self-image as a problem solver, but these are not mutually exclusive with her sincerely caring about people.
I’ll be honest, I was not expecting any other character to show concern for Walky in all this. Even though we’ve gotten to see his internal troubles, most other characters seem to consider him unflappable. It’s nice to see Jennifer thinking about him.
Not so nice to see her running away from her sexuality but ya can’t win em all.
that’s a real Bojack Horseman pattern of behaviour from her, it would be very interesting if she fucked up her life and all her relationships by repeating it over and over just like he did.
You put into words something I really disliked about Dorothy, but could never articulate. She acknowledges that she needs to do things differently, implements self-loathing, then does nothing about it and keeps doing the things she’s bemoaning.
Damn god forbid someone point out a character flaw. Why don’t we kist sit around and glaze these fictional characters instead, bc they’re young and dumb so engaging in discussion about their deliberate weaknesses is pointless, clearly
It’s not like anyone is making any moral judgements here either lol, literally just pointing out a character flaw that creates an aspect of the character they dislike. Like what, am I supposed to like that Dorothy consistently disregards Walky, feels bad about it, and then doesn’t change her behavior at all? Am I supposed to not point out that she does that?
It is,Its frustrating how because Walky is so conflict avoident Dorothy alway puts his feelings last even when they should be front and center because she doesn’t worry about him tearing her a new one like Becky.
The pajama jeans incident ruined them in my eyes. Walky found something that gave him joy and Dorothy not only rejected it but gave him an ultimatum. “It’s the pants or me.” And he chose the pants and everyone shit on him for it. But yknow what. Those pajama jeans have been way kinder to Walky than dorothy has.
Treat your boyfriends like pajama jeans treat them.
It matured Joe for sure, although he had to take his lumps along the way. Dorothy… let’s see how she handles her first real argument with Joyce. Because with the Joe poly plate still in the air, that’s coming soon.
we have yet to encounter a single person besides Sarah who reacts to them with the “hey what the fuck” this situation warrants. so far we have very tepid reactions from Joe and Walky and a congratulations from Billie.
I ask again, why blow up the storyline for the sake of drama if there is no drama?
with every passing strip it feels more like they’re hammering the readers over the head with “the author finds this sexy and cute and therefore so should you”
Billie’s “congratulations” is tempered with a veiled chastisement of Dorothy (and Joyce) for the hurt they’ve caused, in particular to Walky. She was never gonna dress them down like Sarah did, but I think this response is pretty close to what I would have hoped for.
To me she’s coming off more or less apathetic to these two dumbasses and more concerned about how walky’s doing. It was a very dry congratulations, she’s not applauding while hitting them with the “omedetou~~”
Jennifer’s definitely not giving them a congrats for what they did, like she even says there was collateral damage. She’s more just congratulating the realization, which is valid.
And Dorothy tried her luck with him while he and Lucy were together. The one-sided un-serious-ness of their relationship is kind of a mirror to Amber’s “this is nothing.”
Yeah, and it’s been 11? for Joe and Joyce. I think pulling the “it was so short, clearly it didn’t mean much!” just doesn’t make sense at the timescale this webcomic is operating at. There’s better arguments to make (like a few of the comments above yours).
I know. I must once again complain about this comics pacing. I shouldn’t get invested in relationships for years and have them break up and act like my investment is silly cuz for them it’s only been a week. Sorry they put me in the hyperbolic time chamber for this one.
This. The jury’s still out on whether Joe is “considered the situation, and decided he would be willing to try out polyamory” or “saw the writing on the wall, and is grasping at straws trying to salvage what he can of his first real relationship”.
It’s disappointing to see how little negative consequences Dorothy and Joyce have gotten so far for their cheating and other shitty behavior. I hope they run into more people who have similar reactions to Sarah soon.
Why? Like…Sarah just actually realized Joe is normal person, a dude she was pretty repulsed by for a few months and Billie’s known Walky since she was like 5 but didn’t want to be associated with him for awhile. These two are their most upset on these boys’ behalf? Fine sure, whatever. Why should anyone else ‘invoke consequences’ (whatever the hell that means) why should anyone else ACTUALLY give a damn?
Hurting people emotionally is real, we get it, I’m sorry folks have been cheated on and such, but like…it’s a couple of boys in their “barely-not-really 20’s” who have been cheated on by two girls realizing they’re queerer than they thought they were (in fucking Indiana), boys they were dating for…what, a couple of weeks? Walky just got out of another relationship and before that him and Amber had some shit going on while Joe literally slept with a solid chunk of their Freshmen class and nearly had sex with Sarah’s sister like…I’m not saying these things as negatives or whatever, or even comparable to “cheating”, I’m saying these relationships are ephemeral cause these people are barely adults.
Bruh, nobody’s saying they should be expelled. But something on the magnitude of, I dunno, a couple weeks of judgmental looks from their floormates, would be completely fair. Or Sal having half as many terse words for them on her brother’s behalf as Sarah did on Joe’s behalf, instead of being completely blasé about it (Walky hasn’t always a major champion for Sal either [eg with their mom], sure, but he’s made progress, and he didn’t blow off Amber’s history with Sal like this). Now, Billie being mostly blasé about it was more in character though so *shrug emoji* on today’s comic I suppose.
On the other hand, I just posted elsewhere that I’m not convinced Walky was nearly as into Dorothy this time around as Billie remembers him being the first time, so maybe Sal knows that.
i love reading sane adult takes. wanting characters to get “judgemental looks” so that they can be punished for their choices instead of the real life nuanced way this works. god when i was in college some kid was changing their name and gender every few weeks cuz they were from a deeply red state and they were trying to figure out their shit, but would blow up if you fucked up their newest name/pronouns and interrupt class for it. i knew another girl who dated through a friend group in about three months before she came out as a lesbian (with her dorm roommate— NO ONE saw that coming lmfao). college is messy and these characters so far are reacting pretty normally. walky himself made a fuckin joke about it. the world is gonna move on. dorothy ABSOLUTELY has to examine why she keeps hurting the people she’s with while being self aware of it (remember danny?) and joyce absolutely needs to understand she cant be selfish about “getting hers” even after years of repression, but that happens normally and NOT getting GoT shamed with bells or what the fuck ever some of these commenters want.
Okay, but this is not reality, this is a STORY. Reality is frequently unrealistic and unsatisfying. Narratives kind of require that they be going some place. If this were a mostly plotless slice of life like how Diesel Sweeties was when I was a kid, I can promise there wouldn’t be a problem. But there is a plot, people just want to know when we can expect to see where it’s going. Because right now it’s just a tour with nothing happening. I would’ve rather Billie heard this from Walky so we see how he’s actually feeling and she can react from there, rather than two characters whom we have seen daily for weeks their feelings and how they haven’t changed and Billie showing the same level of mild approval/apathy we’ve gotten from everybody except Sarah, Raidah, and *barely* Joe
Here we go again. People should be *punished*. What *is* this mentality? People do stuff, bad shit happens, people are happy/unhappy etc etc. Real life is not a moral crusade, why should fiction be?
I mean, I get what you’re saying, but it seems very silly and a little bizarre to apply that to logic THIS situation. Like…what does “justice” look like here? What does that actually even mean in the context of two girls cheating on their boyfriends with each other? Should their friends ostracize them? Should they go on an apology tour?
If characters are mad at them and are frustrated with their choices, I get that, that’s just following characters as written but this weird upper meta-layer of “THERE MUST BE JUSTICE AND PUNISHMENT FOR THEIR TRANSGRESSIONS” is really weird to me.
Proxiehunter’s gag hits pretty close to the truth for me, honestly. “Justice” after all carries a connotation of “appropriate”.
What to me feels less realistic than is typical for DoA is that no one’s really fussed at all by this — anecdotes not being data, 100% of instances of cheating (even petty low-grade stuff like D&J did to W&J) led to a significant realignment of friend groups back when I was in college.
Hell, as this comment section amply demonstrates, a significant percentage of people have a visceral angry response to anything that could meaningfully be described as cheating, and the fact that we’ve had one “vaguely annoyed” response from Sarah and everyone else is relatively non-fussed so far seems statistically unlikely.
And thus, for at least some of us in the comment section, “they should be punished for this” is shorthand for “it seems really unlikely that their boyfriends are both just totally cool with things and that not a single one of their friend group has had anything more than a ‘you should’ve done better’ response.” I’ve said it before, but “it’s dumbing of age, not smarting of age” ought also apply to “college freshmen have all kinds of serious reactions to things that adultier adults would be able to be more chill about”.
Yeah, that’s where I’m at. Everyone just seems so WEIRDLY chill with this, so far. This is very not in line with what I remember teenage social groups being like. Teenagers, as the comments love to point out, are very dramatic! And over-react to things, taking what could be minor issues and making them bigger because, when you’re young, it DOES feel bigger!
I don’t expect them to be castigated in the streets but a little more ‘dude what the fuck?’ Would be. I don’t know, at least -interesting-.
People love to be all ‘its called DUMBING of age for a reason’ and ‘wow its almost like their teenagers who don’t react like mature adults’, until you have mild negative criticism ofvthis specific storyline, I guess. They you’re just an impatient toddler who’s also an emottianally stunted adult for the crime of ‘wanting these teens to have more teen drama.’
Fortunately for me, at least, the people who I’ve noted are most obnoxious on the whole “What, you think they should face any consequences at all? You’re gross for wanting them to be literally fired into the sun because there are no nuances or middle grounds!” are also openly “my ship shouldn’t have anything bad happen because I like it 😀 😀 😀 ” types so I can freely ignore them.
How I feel is we’ve barely seen anyones reactions yet. Joe fucking hates himself so if course he’s gonna say he’s cool with this, boosters so far on the fringes that they have no investment beyond drama, Walky is so obviously bottling up his feelings like he literally always does, billifer is just concerned with how walky’s doing. As for sal, dot and Walky got back together a couple days ago, did she even know? Ik they were at the party together but she was pretty distracted that night. We’ve only seen two friends outside the situation actually react. Joe and Walky are both emotionally stunted in different ways. Ik its hard because the pacing has slowed down to nothing, but just give it time. We still haven’t seen amber/mazi (I think they’re gonna have conflicting opinions about it), Becky, dina, Danny (he’s for sure gonna have some opinions). Chekovs Rachel is one I’m really looking forward to seeing. Practically no one has reacted yet, chill
People who don’t like this arc… don’t like this arc. Part of what they’re not enjoying is the way it’s written: either they feel the characterization has gotten wonky or they feel like developments have been rushed or both, and scenes they’re not enjoying do genuinely seem to drag on forever while nothing they were hoping for happens.
And I know, I know, Willis originally planned this to happen five years from now, but they also originally planned for it to happen in 2022. I really don’t think it’s as simple as “this should have waited another five years, as was Willis’s original intent”.
And being honest: I’m not at all convinced the reactions people have been having would have been markedly improved by another five years of Willis dropping what they felt were already too-obvious hints, because the hints we’ve been getting since like 2019 did not help.
Yeah, it’s a little tautological, but that’s really part of my point. We have a bunch of different ongoing arguments, but I suspect a bunch of them ultimately just end up reducing to “I like/dislike this, and I’m hunting for a reason to justify it”.
I am not exempt! — as one of the “where consequences/drama?” + “pacing seems off” types, I wonder how much I care about “don’t cheat -> where consequences” vs. “I just don’t like Jorothy and really never have”.
At the same time, that also feels reductive vs. just assuming people’s criticisms/observations are valid on their face.
The hints were being dropped from like day 1 of the comic. There’s an early comic where Joyce is *literally carrying the bi flag* (Book 2 part 3 “league”) as she openly talks about how far Dorothy is out of Walky’s league
@supergluclose: let’s not confuse “Willis did a lot of stuff that NOW reads like intentional foreshadowing if you look for it” with “Willis was literally planning this from day 1”; they’ve basically confirmed they’ve been planning it since before the timeskip, and that’s why Dorothy and Joyce are next to each other in the rooftop scene, as well as why Becky’s “grr Dorothy is stealing my BFF” got brought back in and emphasized so strongly.
Moments prior to that comic strip are often “Willis tried to disclaim Joyce being attracted to girls, and accidentally made her look even more bi”, per Willis themself.
There’s a LOT of those, and Willis is retroactively validating all of them, but it’s not the same thing as “planned from day 1”.
@Big Z: oh, I didn’t mean to be reductive. :|a Though I do think my overall point can be kind of boiled down to…
It’s REALLY hard to be completely objective about art, especially when it gives you big feelings (positive or negative).
I think the folks who say the writing is bad now are being completely honest about their opinions, but I also think that if you really hate what a character is doing, and you previously liked that character, it’s going to feel like bad writing. At best, I think people are going to process that as character derailment. And I don’t think their feelings about it would become inauthentic even if the creator then proceeded to reveal a bunch of show bibles, notarized to prove when each one was created, that proved the character change had been planned and even foreshadowed for ten years.
Sometimes we’re wrong about where a character arc was headed, but can we ever really be wrong about where we feel that character arc should have been headed? I don’t think so.
I’m definitely not going to pretend I am personally objective enough about what’s going on to know whether this is good writing or not. I’m probably just gonna keep saying “I won’t know for sure how I feel about any of this until the arc is over”, and that’s gonna be like… a year from now. Even then, the part where I “finally” got “my” ship after 15 years is going to be such a massive Thing, I’ll have trouble seeing past it.
And I can very, very easily imagine a timeline where instead of getting “my” ship, that ship was instead smashed to smithereens…
…and I wanted to say I probably wouldn’t be very objective about the writing quality then, but honestly I would probably have stopped reading entirely! So let’s assume “no” on the “objective art criticism in the face of deep sadness”, heh.
(Very honestly: I wish everyone who’s not enjoying the strip right now a very “hopefully the next storyline is better for you”.)
sob, I am. I basically gave up and went back to get my BA, in the hopes that it would help. I’ve been told a couple of times that not having my BA was a problem this year. Just too much competition.
I’ve mostly been FE over the course of my career. When I started I knew PHP, JavaScript, MySQL, and (X)HTML + CSS. I’ve since taught myself a bunch of frameworks (Node, Express, MongoDb, Angular, Vue, TypeScript, and I’ve been dabbling in React), plus a few extra languages (SOAP, Perl), and lots of other concepts: REST and pseudo REST, AWS though it’s been a few years, unit testing (Karma and Mocha/Chai, Jest once it was more mature)… I like learning new things.
Currently in a C++ class (along with precalculus, ethnic studies, and a PE class for transfer credits), going to be doing more comp science and calculus and physics classes over the next two semesters before transferring. I’d like to move into more back-end stuff.
I’m also hoping the AI bubble pops before I’m out, because AI “””assisted””” code is just… at the most optimistic, spending the rest of your work life fixing bugs instead of actually writing new features. I like fixing bugs! I like refactoring! They’re kind of zen (as long as the bug isn’t super critical, which sometimes they are). But for that to be the only thing I do… I’d rather change careers.
(also thank you for asking??? like. I am not expecting anything, who knows if I’m even in the right area to be the kind of dev you’re hiring, etc, but it was very kind of you to ask.)
Clarifying on that last bit: I’m talking about using CoPilot to write code.
PRETTY SURE that’s different from the type of work you said you do with AI. 😉 Not at all sure I’m in the right part of the field, but again: just, thanks for asking. It’s been a real rough eight plus months sometimes, and more than anything else I want to contribute to household finances again. My partner has been an absolute angel about this but that doesn’t stop me from feeling crummy.
Oh yeah, back when I worked with AI at all it was “custom-trained single-purpose models” which are the only good use of AI at the moment, IMHO. None of the ChatGPT/Copilot LLM crap.
What I do these days is infrastructure engineering — lots of compliance work, infra-as-code, terraform, ansible, that kind of stuff. That said, a lot of the folks I work with are running Angular apps on my platform, usually with Tomcat/Java backends, but lemme shake the FE tree and see what might come out.
My biggest chunk of experience with Angular (6-ish years working for my immediately previous company!) was with a C++ back-end, but I’m sure you’re well-aware it doesn’t make any difference; the communication between the two was pretty much all in JSON. 🙂 My last big project was an accessibility push, which I basically spearheaded: organized a huge number of tickets from multiple different audits, got them all tagged up in JIRA, closed the ones that weren’t actually WCAG violations (there were a couple of ’em), identified level of effort and area of code concern, recommended specific teams to do them most easily (with the most familiarity on the area)… wound up also getting tapped to suggest or approve solutions on a ton of them, too. That was exciting — I learned SO MUCH about accessibility.
(I’ve had to parse XML and also SOAP, parsing JSON responses is so much better :’) )
Anyway, if there’s any room at your company, I will… well, first of all cry, but second of all be both bewildered and impressed that somehow “commenting on one of my favorite web comics led to a job interview”??? That was definitely not on my 2025 bingo card.
Yeah, the thirst for punishment in the comments is super gross. Some people seem like they aren’t going to be happy until Joyce & Dorothy are publicly flogged and forcibly broken up.
Don’t correlate the desperation for a consequence with the intensity of a consequence. If my little brother breaks my toys and I tell mom and she ignores me. I’m not mad because I want him to be thrown into traffic. I just desperately want *something* to happen so I don’t feel like there’s a precedent of “well it’s ok for him to break your things actually”
I mean, Walky didn’t just shrug when he found about Amber’s history with Sal the way Sal was completely blasé when she caught Joyce & Dorothy. I don’t think anybody called for Joyce & Dorothy to go to prison, so maybe pUnIsHmEnT is a little much, but Sarah is the only one so far who’s even seemed to have minded.
The way I see it, Sarah’s the only one they’ve spoken to so far (outside of the boyfriends) whose life might be tangibly impacted by their pumpkin eating behavior, since she’s Joyce’s roommate and might occasionally have to sleep in the same room as these two bozos.
Sal is at least two degrees removed from both of them, and has a completely separate room from them as well, and she doesn’t even have 100% of the information about Joyce and Dorothy being sneakoids at her brother, so any objections she has to that are gonna have to wait until she actually knows.
Billie doesn’t even live in the same building anymore and only ever has to see them when she decides to come visit on purpose or when they share a class.
Daisy doesn’t get to have an opinion because she’s basically a stranger they sometimes give pieces of paper to.
Joe apparently wound Dorothy up and pointed her Joyceward because I guess he’s really into the idea of having a girlfriend who makes out with a woman who hates him, and even if he’s not, he’s at least willing to give it a try before he decides it’s not worth the trouble.
Walky’s just coasting and doing whatever the nearest woman says he should do, right now. He basically pity-fucked Dorothy and I genuinely don’t recall a single other thing they’ve done together since then, so unless it was particularly cute and showed any sign of him really wanting to stay together, I’m sure he’ll be fine moving on to his true love, Micheletto Greco.
For me its not about a punishment its just a question of why. Like if everyone just kinda roles with the cheating then why write it as cheating? Like seriously if they had had their respective break ups BEFORE the protest, had the big make out moment, and got their picture in the paper are any characters really in a different place?
I think Billy just doesn’t have the emotional bandwidth for anything but a light chewing out. Her mind’s pretty clearly already on how this would have effected Walky, especially with her second comment on Dot not realizing how much she ment to Walky
There are a couple of strips I think reallu highlight why Walky might be taking this better than we expect. I think it was hinted at he didn’t really have confidence in getting back together with Dorothy. Admittedly a “look” is inherently open to massive interpretation though. What do ya’ll think?
Paired with Dorothy’s dialog it almost feels like he knows getting back together more than just a brief hookup is a mistake. I think had casual sex for comfort and it morphed into getting recommitted because that’s convenient and habit, especially under internalized pressure to date unless ye be labeled a slut or a hussy.
Personally I think Walky is still not over Lucy at all because he didn’t appreciate her until she was gone and he feels inadequate because in his mind she immediately “upgraded” to a superficially more desirable male in Jacob. He needs time to sort that out.
Yeah, I think Walky was hit with the disappointment before he even got to enjoy the afterglow. Dorothy already nixed the possibility of their relationship being any different this time around, and he wasn’t thrilled with that. I think he’s always been much more emotionally invested than he likes or is willing to talk about, being unserious is a defense mechanism.
Oh, see, I take those as hints that this is going to hit Walky like a freight train once he stops dodging feelings like it’s his job. Walky was clearly hurt by the thought that “this” didn’t matter, imo at least. I think he’s starting to internalize how his relationships have all gone up in flames. I think he’s hurt and it’s gonna all pour out, hopefully soon
This is so adorable. Everyone appreciates Dorothy far more than she appreciates herself. She’s even cuter than before here So nice to see these girls happy. And perhaps even Billie will find herself a girl to love.
to bring back a punchline from yore “what you said, but unironically”. Dorothy is indeed a stupid dork, any attractiveness she had vanished along with her integrity in this storyline
Loving the energy in the strip lately, and again, Jennifer speaks the truth. She’s been doing that a lot lately. Perhaps she’s going to grow a wisdom score.
tbh im not even that worried about that specifically, but Walky does try to be a better person in every relationship he’s in only to get broken up with every time. And I really hope he doesn’t interalize that into some sort of idea that he’ll never be good enough to be loved
With love for Walky, sometimes his best wasn’t great re: Lucy. I’d argue this Dorothy/Walky rebound is less about sadness over losing Lucy and more about needing comfort after a confrontation with Linda. Brains aren’t logical though and I could totally see him thinking there’s something wrong with him as a mental smokescreen in front of the monumental, terrifying task of addressing the spectre of racism in his family… AGAIN… perhaps even how it’s damaged his ability to feel he has agency in his life.
Huh, you know how the author sometimes posts teasers of upcoming strips in the little BlueSky side bar thingy? I just saw one for march of next year and Billie’s hair is in a bun, which I don’t think her current hair style can pull of. Therefore, I wonder if we are getting another time jump.
too be fair I also didn’t her current hair to be able to be pulled back into a ponytail with her big ass scruchy but then she somehow pulled that off too
You know, it makes sense, but beyond that, I love that Jennifer has expressed attraction to quite a portion of the cast.
She has called Ethan and Joe hot, swung and missed on seducing Tony and Danny, has had sex with Asher and Ruth and Alice, crushed on Walky as a kid, drunkenly tried to kiss Sal even if she likely might not recall doing so, and now expressing attraction to Dorothy. Am I missing anyone?
Apropos of nothing
I was discussing DOA character body types with some friends and decided to try to roughly sketch out how I would go about drawing some of the main DOA girls to differentiate them. I used Joyce’s model as a base.
Picture is here
Joyce: Average height for the female characters. Notably curvy for her height.
Becky: The Player 2 to Joyce. Has more or less Joyce’s build but slightly less curvy and more lean.
Dorothy: All lean. Very slender while still being roughly Joyce’s height.
Amber: All Stocky. While not necessarily shown in the comic’s art style I like imagining she has a layer of fat over a hefty layer of muscle making her look even stockier than other girls her height. (Basically a combination of Amber’s sedintary lifestyle and Amazi-girl’s highly active one creating an ideal body builder build, making her a wall of muscle for roller derby and superhero antics)
Billie: The most pronouced curves of the cast. Unlike Amber who’s equally fat and muscle, Billie has more fat distribution. Her legs are taut and strong from being a cheerleader.
Dina: She smol.
Sarah. Really tall and somewhat lean. Not as lean as someone like dorothy or Dina but her height does make her curves less pronounced.
😛 I’m not really good at this sorta thing but I really like trying to differentiate characters based on their lifestyles and overall “vibes”
This feels like a subtle nudge that Billie is still somewhat protective of Walky since she pointed out that his feelings for her seem to be outwardly genuine.
Of course if taht is the case don’t expect Billie to ever admit so.
Wait, is Dorothy a hottie? This needs to be examined. Perhaps there should be some kind of hottie evaluation system with a ranked list that… NO, BAD IDEA! FORGET THAT I SAID ANYTHING!
Look on the brightside Dorothy maybe this is what he needs to finally admit your not perfect…then again there’s as much of a chance of that happening as Joyce admitting it.
Oh that wasn’t supposed to be a reply. I’m sorry but your comment is just sort of regular. since I’m here though: there’s a comic about Walky having sex that could probably answer your question
Ehhhh but that was their first go-around. IMHO the guy Billie describes here wouldn’t have had the willpower to turn Dorothy down when she basically tried to get him to cheat on Lucy. I just don’t think he was nearly that into it the second time.
Did Willis sign a contract when he decided to go for DoJo that any conflict would get resolved in 3 strips or less?
Let’s take it from this morning:
Sarah: 3 strips then she’s too sore to complain anymore.
Joe: 3 strips from Joyce’s entrance to Joe’s “why” defusing all tension
Walky: literally 1 strip of Joyce being an asshole
Daisy: 3 strips of “nothing you can do”
Jennifer: 3 strips and now she’s running off.
My bet is monday morning when the Math Squad has to set out to class again since that’s when Sarah, Walky, Dot, Billy, Joyce, Joe, Sal, Lucy & Jacob are all gonna be in one place together which’ll probably come with a ton of unspoken tension that could easily lead to one big explosion
alternatively maybe something will happen later today after everyone’s seen the newspaper and then the next day the math squad will just be awkwardly tense or not even happen. Sarah still cross with Joyce and Dot while Billy, Sal & Walky split off seperately while Lucy & Jacob fully stay out of it all
I agree that things have gone a bit easy for them – I expected Billie to be harsher. But it’s not terrible. I expect Becky will be depressed but live (like last time). Dina will probably not care unless Becky does. Mary won’t like it, shocker. Mike’s ghost doesn’t talk to them. We know Amber doesn’t care much (or… prefers it this way, if you believe theories that she wanted Walky back). Sal will be angry, and her lack of approval will hurt Joyce, but it’ll be fleeting. Probably.
It’ll probably be fine until it gets to her parents. Just a guess.
So to be clear, you’re saying that if two people aren’t actively discussing a conflict between them right this moment, that means that conflict has been resolved?
No, but that certainly seems to be the state of things so far.
Sarah: she expressed her disappointment with Joyce, then went to shower. No conflict there.
Joe: certainly there’s setup for problems later but yes, the main conflict (Joyce was cheating) has been defused.
Walky: no conflict. All he’s done is take his lumps, and the way Dorothy’s been talking about him indicates that’s all she expects of him.
Daisy: their interaction ended up being more about Joyce’s comic strip. What conflict can we expect from her?
Jennifer: she literally congratulated them and ran off. What conflict can we expect there?
And how long has it been in-universe? Did you expect Sarah to skip showering in order to follow these two around campus, ringing a bell and crying out, “Shame! Shame”! Was Daisy, of all people, supposed to give a flaming rat’s ass about what they’re doing in their downtime, as long as their stories/comic strips are turned in on time?
Walky has cultivated a careful air of not giving a shit about anything, which may one day fall around him, but I doubt very strongly that the ending of a three-day booty call is going to be the catalyst. The situation with Joe is still there, and has been for less than an hour. Jen may or may not have more to say to them at a later date; she seems to resent that she “has to” go be a friend to Walky again, and it’s certainly not like she tends to hang out with him most of the time.
I’m not sure what you’re expecting to happen literally the morning after The Smooch. Yes, it’s been a long time for us, but these characters already have all the consequences we’re likely to give them. In-strip consequences take in-strip time.
Joe looked ready to cry last time we saw him, Walky didn’t even get the actual talk, and Dorothy has not been made privy to Joe’s offer to share. Literally nothing has been resolved.
I get some peeps are upset that bar for Sarah noone’s really chewing out these two for cheating on their mutual friends but honestly I’m just excited for more genuine Walky/Billy sibling stuff
Looking forward to Dorothy’s reaction to Joe refusing to simply be broken up with and suggesting Joyce date both of them.
Does she still resent Joe enough to make Joyce choose one or the other? Will she suggest the same to Walky? Will Walku have yet another girlfriend by the time she gets around to suggesting it?
Yo Wllis can I plz comment, I’ve been reading for years 🙁
I mean, honestly, I feel like that bridge was burned when Joyce intentionally broke up Waky and Dotty. You can’t ask your girlfriend to accept you having a boyfriend when you’re unwilling to let her do the same, and dragging Dotty out of the room while kissing her and laughing maniacally…I mean, that’s not just burning the bridge, that’s dropping napalm on it while it’s loaded with TnT and then dropping a nuke on the cinders.
All that to say I don’t think Dotty’s feelings about Joe are going to be the problem. It’s Joyce’s feelings about DOROTHY that are gonna get in the way. And I think Joe kinda knows it and that’s why we got sad face the last time we saw him.
Whether or not Walky gets a new girlfriend I hope that after this he stops considering any future with Dorothy, non of them are in a great headspace for dating and she in particular seems to be chasing the high of new relationships to avoid going to therapy.
By go to therapy I meant have an honest discussion with said therapist. She told Ruth she wouldn’t do that because it would kill her political career except now she doesn’t even want that path or Harvard but still doesn’t want to admit there’s a problem.
Am I the only person that Dorothy sets off TransDar for ? Anybody else. Right here, Dorothy just accepts the full framing of her being both Straight and only questions the hottie part.
Another thing Billy just emphasized that Walky wouldn’t admit he liked girls until Dorothy. Any other author id overlook it.
But if Dorothy comes out as Trans No one it wasn’t planned. Or “it came out out of nowhere” .
She’s been in the middle of existential identity crisis for 3 years of story. dumping Walky. Dumping her presidential plans. Being held up almost gutted. Getting kidnapped. Seeing a murder. She dated walky to feel normal. It didn’t work. Now she’s with Joyce ( guess what kids, it’s not going to work either. Not unless the comic ends. ) she was a supervillain in its Walky. I think Dorothy is still headed for big changes if timeline and plot allows.
“straight hottie” is a phrase which here means “really hot,” it’s not implying that Dorothy is straight, she’s observably not.
She is however perhaps the cisest cis woman I’ve ever seen. If Willis wants to have an arc about someone actually coming to terms with and coming out as trans, they should do it for an actual egg. Perhaps one who is always wearing a hoodie and plays the ukulele.
Update to the update:
1) it seems like it actually broke EVERY digital gaming storefront.
2) it’s pretty good so far even though I STILL can’t tell if it’s intended to be a sequel or prequel.
I restarted my playthrough six hours in because i made too many dumb mistakes mostly related to losing all my money several times by going to areas i was not ready for and the fact that i don’t mind it that much say wonders about it honestly
This whole story line feels like a bad TV show. Where there was a season finale cliff hanger that ended with the ship exploding, the bad guy getting the McGuffin, and the main character getting shot. Then the next season started and just went ” nah its fine none of that did anything back to status quo”
Like this kicked off and it felt like it was going to be this big “yeah they cheated but think of all the drama” but then everyone’s just been kinda like “eh okay” and shockingly little drama.
Which at that point why write it as a cheating storyline if cheating doesn’t have an impact? Why not have them have a “oh this ain’t platonic” realization and then go break up, then hook up?
According to who? Name even one person who’s stopping you from giving your critique. Because it looks like everyone is saying their piece without prevention. It’s a public site, people can disagree with you on matters of severity without you being “not allowed” to say what you already said unimpeded.
Well, if they already realized their feelings and broke up with their boyfriends, they wouldn’t have the big kiss at the protest at all, so there wouldn’t be a newspaper photo of them. So the storyline would have been entirely different.
well you see, a total of 16-ish in-universe hours have passed, and sometimes drama comes in different forms than everyone you know immediately spawning in next to you to deliver a sermon about why you’re going to hell. Sometimes drama happens, like, a little bit at a time, as is seen in popular queer fiction Dumbing Of Age literally every other time something has ever happened.
It took *months* of strips for the characters to even realize Mike had been murdered, including someone whose headmate was a *witness*. You think Dina and Leslie are gonna start speedrunning their cloying lectures just so you don’t need to be uncomfortable for a few more weeks?
If you want to compare it to a TV show, it’s more like a multipart episode where part 1 ends on a cliffhanger. Yes, it’s been a week since you watched that, but do you think it’s weird when part 2 starts and the characters haven’t suffered any consequences yet for the end of part 1?
I’m gonna keep drumming this drum – the Smooch happened literally yesterday. As did the police riot at the protest. Give it a minute.
Sure, but it’s not just that a lot of time has passed for us, or even that not much has for them, it’s that we’ve actually addressed a lot of things that looked like they could led to big drama and they just didn’t. Or got postponed for potential future different drama.
Like TV serials often used to do: like close on dramatic jump scare of a mysterious threatening figure, only to reveal next episode it’s actually just the hero’s friend in bad lighting.
Ethan/Asher has been happening for way longer than Joyce/Dorothy and the other shoe is yet to drop on that one, the storytelling is decompressed so lots can still happen. Do you know how long it took to resolve the case of the Whiteboard Dingdong Bandit?
So Sarah was straight up offended.
Joe planted a hand grenade in their Eden.
Jennifer called out Dorothy and left to deal with Walky.
Walky is depressed.
Alice has activated Raidah.
Danny called out Dorothy in advance.
Amber will not be pleased with how Walky and Joe were treated.
Becky is yet to come.
The pair are riding on new relationship energy but the drama tag has definitely been pulled. This is not going well for them.
Sarah was offended on behalf of Joe, who has now been talked to and claims to be fine with it, including being willing to step aside if that’s what Joyce wants. It’ll be weird if Sarah continues being upset for him when he’s not upset.
I love Willis heavily implying on Bluesky that their readers are a bunch of Dannies, and not the new Danny either.
I think Dorothy is cute here. The way she looks at Joyce, and her reaction to Jennifer. I don’t think she is aving a self-esteem thing, I think she’s just surprised and kind of touched that Jennifer thinks she’s hot.
lots of people still seem to think willis writes fundamentalist morality plays instead of a gay webcomic where girls become gayer and gayer every in-universe day
Yeah, it’s pretty weird. I wonder if there’s a correlation between people who have been reading since those early days and people who want to see Dorothy & Joyce punished for their sins.
My bet here continues to be that Jennifer hasn’t talked to Walky yet and therefore doesn’t know how he was broken up with.
But if I had to choose I would definitely pick “comforting Walky” as a higher priority for her than “lambasting Dorothy”, so I won’t be too terribly sad if she doesn’t circle back later? I just also think circling back later would make sense.
I continue to sympathize with folks who wanted more angry yelling at the girls. I sympathize less with folks who don’t think Joe and Walky’s reactions so far have made sense, because they were definitely foreshadowed in multiple strips. That we weren’t sure what Joe and Walky’s complicated facial expressions meant before doesn’t mean those panels didn’t happen or that rereading wouldn’t turn up a fair bit of Willis showing us Joe’s suspicion and hope that he and Dorothy and Joyce could work something out (especially the way he spoke to Dorothy while she was freaking out) — as well as Willis showing us Walky’s resignation.
I don’t even think Jennifer’s statement up above about Dorothy having a hold over him is true anymore, but I might be wrong there! We’ll see soon.
So, firstly, Walky has been in the one strip since June 22nd. If his reaction is important to the comic, and I would argue that it should be, at least more than it has been, no amount of reaction later can really make up for that. The *only* reaction we’ve seen so far is him going “welp, I should have expected that” in the context of Joyce literally laughing in his face. I don’t even like Walky and I think he’s been done pretty dirty over the past few months. It’s really hard to gauge his reaction when we have precisely one panel of it.
Moving on- with Joe, his prior conversation with Dorothy certainly is some strong evidence that his reaction here makes sense. He’s been aware of the dynamic between these two.
But also we have a ton of evidence that he regards infidelity as a big fucking deal. He’s seen firsthand what it did to his mom, and built his personality around avoiding relationships specifically because he didn’t want the possibility of inflicting that pain on someone- but at the same time he also avoided having it inflicted on him. He’s called what Joyce did cheating. And that whole sitch appears to be a wet fart for his character arc.
With Joe not wanting to break up with Joyce, with him being open to her dating both him & Dorothy at the same time, the drama and problems that I expect to come out of their attempt at a throuple/polycule would be about Joyce always considering him after Dorothy. That’s absolutely a related issue, don’t get me wrong, but I have a big problem with it.
Joyce neglecting Joe in a polycule loses out on some absolutely *amazing* dramatic irony. Joe being so concerned about becoming his dad only to find out he’s become his mom hits a lot better when it’s specifically in regards to cheating since that’s the specific thing Joe was so worried about.
Honestly, while I’m not an author, as someone who consumes media I have a hard time understanding why Willis passed that opportunity up.
1. I’m certainly not talking just about Walky’s reaction to actually being broken up with, I am talking about the entire way he’s been interacting with Dorothy since before Lucy broke up with him. Not just how he reacted when Dorothy offhandedly said “this is different, if I make a mistake it doesn’t matter”, but also how he reacted when he realized Lucy was potentially rebounding with Jacob.
2. Everything you’re saying about Joe is… fanon.
It makes sense! I can see where folks are coming from with it! But in terms of textual support, what we’ve seen Joe actually be distressed over on-page are “divorce”
(very generally!) (nothing about Joyce’s parents splitting up should remind Joe of his own dad, there’s no infidelity, it’s about as different as two situations could be, but Joe was really upset!)
and the idea that he might “ruin” Joyce by having sex with her
(which has gotten a BUNCH of strips about it, including him seeking out Roz’s advice and very directly saying that’s what he’s afraid of, and it was reinforced when Liz panicked)
but not so much about being cheated on, or even about cheating himself.
Like, Joe worrying about becoming his dad? Is a popular headcanon, but he’s never actually said he was worried about that. He was worried that Joyce would regret “letting” him be her first, but he’s never actually said anything about being afraid of hurting her the same way his dad hurt his mom… and if his mom was his dad’s first, if there was any kind of experience gap there, Willis hasn’t indicated as much.
So.
What we’ve actually had months of build-up on has been Joe trying to tell Joyce that he wants her to have the things she wants, and Joe talking Dorothy through admitting she had feelings for Joyce.
In terms of “lost potential” — I think that would make an awesome fanfic, but I don’t think Willis has ever actually said anything or written any strips to make us think that Joe had serious trauma around his dad’s infidelity (specifically) rather than just… more GENERALLY being reluctant to try to have serious relationships, which is a very typical reaction to divorced parents (generally).
In fact, if you read the strips about the “Do” List again, you’ll notice that Joe frames it as something he used to think was funny but now realizes was not funny, and that he talks about how he was wrong to try not to view other people as people.
That latter thing is what Joyce actually CALLS him on, you see. It’s what he actually SAID the list was, and what he says he wants to fix, when he approaches Amber afterwards.
“Sorry, I’m trying to learn how to view other people as people again.”
There is a critical lack of ANY implication, at any point, that he was even thinking of his dad’s infidelity, much less that he was afraid of cheating on other people or being cheated on himself.
Bluntly, though, while I like aspects of the theory, I think it would really run the risk of giving Joe a Freudian excuse for his previous shitty behavior, and, upon rereading strips where Willis is actually addressing Joe’s past behavior, they’ve never seemed interested in making excuses for it.
He was being a specific type of misogynistic jerk. He got found out as a jerk, and was initially VERY defensive and dismissive about it. Joyce pointed out that his jerkiness was dehumanizing. Joe rolled his eyes and told her it was better and easier for everyone to be a little bit dehumanized. Then he realized he’d struck a nerve.
Joyce told him what she’d been through, and that the worst part of it was not just how “Ryan” had dehumanized her, but knowing that a LOT of other guys were also dehumanizing her and other women like her.
Joe saw the error of his ways and decided to work on himself, slowly but surely unlearning his previous patterns of behavior.
……….Does it not throw kind of an ugly wrench in the above narrative if, that whole time, Joe’s dehumanization had come directly from a place of terror and trauma? Would it not retroactively make Joyce an insensitive asshole in that scene?
Do you really think it’s likely Willis would have intended Joyce to be an insensitive asshole in they scene, where she made herself so vulnerable?
Do you really think that would be better, for Joe’s character?
Honestly i never thought of it like that, everyone repeat that he had trauma about infidelity si much that i kinda just accepted but this actually makes a lot more sense thanks
It’s a very compelling idea! And there’s a LOT of comic.
I think if you haven’t reread the actual part of the story with the “Do” list where Joe talks about his motivations for making it, the idea that he was being An Ethical Slut for trauma-based reasons makes so much sense and has no downsides…
But if you DO go back and reread, and you pay attention to what Joe says about the list through all phases of the storyline, and especially the lesson he personally seems to take to heart from it? Then the idea that it was a trauma response starts to feel not only a lot less likely, but kind of ooky.
It would certainly be a TWIST, but it would be the same kind of twist as revealing that Sal’s mom was never racist. Like, okay, expectations subverted, but kind of a weird way to do that? Willis specifically addressed the idea, saying it would have been gross to have the twist be “the Black girl is wrong about a white woman being racist”.
Similarly, I think it would be kinda icky to have a twist that retroactively makes every girl who ever called Joe out wrong to have done so.
And I know that some folks have specifically complained that they DO feel like that’s been what Willis has been doing — that Dorothy, Sarah, and Rachel all keep reminding us of Joe’s past behavior just so that Willis can shut down the idea that he ever did anything wrong…? But that feels shortsighted to me.
“Joe has changed, and he isn’t the guy these girls remember him being” is a very different thing for the narrative to be saying than “actually, Joe was NEVER the guy they thought he was, and they were always wrong to complain about his behavior”.
Jennifer is confronted by two women who found out they have fluid sexualities and are a little bit gay and she’s still terrified of letting in the realization that she dates more women than men.
i am really looking forward to what question or action does make the new relationship energy pop in the future. joe was both very sweet and open to dorothys feelings for joyce before even she was aware, and then was also patient with joyce when he was absolutely allowed to be deeply upset— but he hasnt reacted like he would have “normally”, so i really hope we get to see joes real thoughts in the coming weeks.
danny im also curious to see— he disliked walky because he dated amber and dotty, but will danny show walky compassion in a shared sense of “yeah she dumped me pretty unceremoniously too” sort of way? i also think it would be interesting for it to be revealed that walky isnt as affected by this than whats expected, which will be the catalyst to getting him more character development. im sure seeing him mad will be interesting to certain garbage roof parties as well.
and then theres still radiah who has well earned beef with joyce, alice who has no emotional ties to this friend group so she can spill the beans in an in opportune way, and gosh theres still becky. i hope dina and becky survive, but i also think becky not freaking out would be a character growth opportunity for her too! UGHHH its all so complicated and juicy.
ugh this is all so dramatic and interesting but thank god this comic is written by an adult and not some of these commenters here. theres absolutely going to be consequences for how theyve been behaving (which absolutely will be deserved but only NARRATIVELY since this is FICTION) but its definitely not going to be something as usless and shallow as public shaming. 🙄
It’s kinda funny how Joyce and Dorothy cheating on their boyfriends kicked off a hugely divisive thing between many readers, and even between the author and some of the readers, and yet… Willis hasn’t done much with it in the story (so far, going on two months later real-time). I’ve never seen a fictional cast of teens show more grace, understanding, and support over two members of the main cast cheating on two others. Subject to change, of course, but so far, so milquetoast.
If this arc pushes Billie and Walky to talk more beyond playful (or genuine) antagonism, I’d enjoy that. Hopefully this all leads to other interesting character interactions that I’m not forseeing yet.
Yeah why are these college kids being so cool about this lol. Dumb impulsive actions are ok when Dorothy and Joyce do it but no one else is allowed to?
Well, this is the first time we’ve seen an admission that what’s went down has resulted in hurting someone. It’s done in a rather off hand fashion though, but progress I guess?
maybe with a second, secret twist: becky DOESN’T respond badly to Joyce and Dorothy being together, but DOES freak out at the prospect of Joyce being poly, which would actually confront her with the premise that Joyce is now romantically rejecting her in an active way; like, “obviously Joyce can’t date me if she’s not a lesbians,” or “obviously Joyce can’t date me because she’s straight with Joe, or “obviously Joyce can’t date me because Dorothy is actually her soulmate and I’m so happy for girls loving girls,” are all reasons Becky can accept, and not break down over. But, maybe knowing that Joyce is poly feels different. There’s no longer a thought-terminating single-sentence explanation she can give herself to stop thinking about the fact that, given actual agency over the decision, Joyce won’t choose her.
Yeah this is fun. For the narrative. Not for anyone in it.
Man the problem with wanting to be super openly poly is that people no longer hear “I’m in a relationship” as “I’m unavailable.” Most of the time it would be better if they did.
I been saying, of the entire main cast, Joe is probably who Dorothy likes the least. On top of that, she’s going to get a moment of “wait, you didn’t break up with him? That’s what we were doing though. How come I had to break up with Walky then?”
He has Billie and Sal which are sibling relationships, he has Booster whom he’s not super close with, Lucy and Amber wanted to and still want to fuck him respectively, and all his other friends are moreso the friends of his ex who cheated on him and her new girlfriend.
Poor guy doesn’t even have Joe like he did in the Walkyverse.
Remember folks, it’s only been about an hour or two since these two climbed out of bed and into a lecture. Daisy didn’t recognize them in the picture and they both work for her. There’s a definite chance this gossip only travels as fast as Alice and Raidah.
They showered, talked to the boys, and then ran to steal the newspapers and confront Daisy. Now I know I wouldn’t take three or four hours to do all that, but I also haven’t zoomed in on anyone’s watches or watched the movement on the sun in the strip, so admittedly I’m just basing my estimate on how long things take to do.
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*sighs in Dorothy/Walky shipper* She really does have a hold on him, doesn’t she?
…Look, if Joerothy shippers get to hope, SO DO I DAMMIT.
Polycule hopes aren’t effortless fanfic nonsense if you expect and cheer for a gigantic mess.
They aren’t effortless fanfic nonsense if you want a happy polycule either. Any more than wanting a happy monogamous relationship would be.
it is very fun how many ppl in the comments tell on themselves with their “well if it’s poly it has to be a giant mess because monogamy is the One True Relationship Style”
Nnno. It’s a mess because it’s these specific characters. ‘I hope it all just works out’ would be shallow. Daring to hope that these kids get together entails dealing with their clusterfuck of issues. It’s not like monogamy’s been going great for any of them.
This comic has a stable polycule, and they come up approximately never, because that’s a shenanigan-poor environment.
yeah, that’s the thing, for any relationship to work in the long run, you need to already have good relationship skills like emotional intelligence and communicating your needs and feelings instead of hiding them and just hoping for the best… polyamory can get messy because it multiplies the amount of possible needs and feelings and situations to make communication necessary, and that will fail if you don’t communicate well.
Monogamy will *also* fail if you don’t communicate well, but poly gives you the unique opportunity to hurt several partners all at once. (ok, so does cheating in monogamy… at least in poly, there’s a chance not to hurt everyone, if you only do things that were negotiated as okay)
This. And these fools manage to make a big enough mess with monogamy, so poly would just exponentially multiply the issues.
I’m a Walky / Amber shipper, so I still have hope right now.
Chain relationship for the win!
I mean Walky has been single for what, about 72 hours of in-universe time so far? Total, between all 2.5 relationships?
The funny part is I’ve known people who did that and they were EXACTLY like Walky.
Does the time when Lucy was dating Walky but Walky didn’t know it yet count?
Even as someone who really liked Dorothy / Walky 1.0, the spark’s gone out.
Better for both characters to split
I dunno I wasn’t a big fan of 1.0 but really did like this go around. It felt less infatuated with a little more baseline tension and I liked that.
IMO it was telling that they had more chemistry even when broken up than Walky did with Lucy, most of the time.
Yeah I feel that.
Title of next DoA book… “No, you’re a stupid dork!”
Sadly, Willis doesn’t use a comic strip’s last line for his titles.
Dumbing Of Age Book 16: You Think I’m A Hottie
(Note the lack of a question mark)
I’m getting a “It’s the Great Pumpkin, Charlie Brown!” vibe off that title.
Or what about “Book 16: You *somehow* keep pulling straight hotties”? ^^
Lack of question mark is appropriate.
Jennifer has a type (emotional disaster girls with glasses) and she won’t admit it.
So her type is herself?
Wonder if there’s any future in being a Jennifer/Billie shipper.
Again, Narcissus?
Doesn’t the other comic have multiverse shenanigans?
If so, then the chance of a Jennifer/Billie ship isn’t 0 (depending on if they’d consider it, incest, masturbation, or a regular relationship).
Yoto did an excellent Billie & Jennifer strip where she bangs herself without any philosophical worries.
I wish I could remember where Yoto’s DoA archive was.
After the Imgur archive went down, he moved everything to a new site and posted the link, but I forgot to bookmark it… 😔
Ask and ye shall receive: https://imgchest.com/p/ne7bw5ovn75
You… wouldn’t happen to have a link… would you? 👉👈 Please?
Ask and ye shall receive: https://imgchest.com/p/ne7bw5ovn75
https://imgchest.com/p/ne7bw5ovn75
A comprehensive list of most of my DOA fanart over the years. Please note the views and content expressed in this fanart may go back at least a decade and may not express the current views and attitudes of modern day Yoto.
Ooo. Beat me to it
it is an image chest
cuz this is real treasure bruh! <3
This strip could be renamed to Emotional Disaster Girls with Glasses.
Even Carla is bordering dangerous to being one of these now. Soon only Sal and Becky will be left.
And Sal really only needs the glasses at this point.
Bonus points for whoever reworks that title to fit the cadence of the TMNT theme song.
“Emo ‘saster Glasses Girls…” ?
Honestly, I’ve shipped Amber/Amazigirl, so why not Jennifer/Billie as well? Self-ships FTW! xD
hey I’m halfway of the opinion that the cursed shipping poll should include multiverse Amber/Amazi-Girl so why not
Jennifer/Amber, but she never figures out Amazi-Girl’s identity.
See also Ruth finding Dorothy rummaging for booze and ‘ticking a lot of her boxes.’
The three of them could go from disaster lesbians to catastrophe lesbians. Apocalyptic lesbians.
We just need one more and we’ll have a proper apocalypse
apocalesbians
Goodness. Now I’m trying to think who would be the fourth rider. And what each one would personify.
A reminder that this is not new. See https://www.dumbingofage.com/2022/comic/book-13/01-bring-me-to-life-drawing/sudden/ and https://www.dumbingofage.com/2024/comic/book-15/02-the-one-where-jocelyne-returns/accosting/
Don’t we all have that type?
(okay, we do not all of us have that type. me, yeah, i have that type)
…. I’m getting some very subtle vibes that it was more than just a phase…
Jennifer let her Billie show again lol
for reals Jennifer?
ya might as well have “no homo” tattooed on ya forehead XD 9-9
This is so funny. Dorothy is pretty hot, haha.
I ship it. doesn’t mean much coming from me because I kinda ship everyone with everyone, but I ship Jen and Dotty sooo hardddd
Dammit you can’t tease me with MY crack ship!
I mean uh…don’t trust…something. Hotties I guess? Or dorks. Or hot dorks. Yeah. Don’t trust hot dorks, that’s too much going on.
Beware of geeks bearing grifts
**imagining Willis as the “now they’re diamonds” guy from forever ago**
He just did.
Honestly, if all of this entire Dorothy/Joyce ship is just slow-burn setup for Dorothy to cheat on Joyce and hook up with Jennifer and Joyce wind up back with Joe, that would be amazing.
Love all of that except Joyce winding up with Joe.
I would love that, minus Joyce going back to Joe. They should break up.
Hey. Jenn. You’ve got some Dere in your Tsun there.
Two great tastes that taste great together!
Internalized biphobia is a bongo.
I had a lot of self-loathing when I was younger due to not being able to think it was ok to be attracted to people regardless of gender, and that I was a freak for even having those thoughts.
Don’t think I loathed myself, but i got a lot af really neg reaction. Fortunately, being bi, the opp sex was there for me. Such that I didn’t even click to being bi for decades of life!
One night she’s gonna bolt awake and go “I’m not straight,” and Alice will tell her to shut up and roll over.
Is that before or after their wedding?
Yes.
Tbh I think Jennifer’s denial there is more about calling *Dorothy* hot rather than calling a girl hot
joyce takes nothing but Ws this arc
just don’t. don’t look at anyone else
Billie/Jennifer trying to run away from her bisexuality; not surprising, but it’s still interesting.
And this is why Dorothy / Jennifer in the cursed ship poll should’ve been Walky / Jennifer.
They are siblings 🙁
Listen. Homestuck does things to people.
I don’t think you can blame it for this.
Not really, they just grew up together, like childhood friends.
The Westermarck effect seems to still apply in their case. I’d search for past strips as evidence, but the site’s being extremely slow for me today.
I believe this is the one you’re after.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-2/01-pajama-jeans/gross/
Billie and Walky are so clearly, explicitly coded as siblings that it feels almost laughable to argue against it. Just because Billie keeps running from it doesn’t make it not true.
I mean, it is supposed to be *cursed* ships, could get waaaaay worse than pseudo-siblings if you wanted it to lol
that would be why it is cursed, yes
This comic is a competition to see who is the greatest disaster gay.
… how many ways can we tie this up?
It isn’t even close at this point.
Give it time; Billie/Jennifer might be running from her bisexuality right now, but I think she will learn to embrace it in the not too distant future. For her, won’t be too far into the future, but for us it’s going be another 2 1/2 years before we circle back around to that.
Can commenters enter the competition?
Asking for a friend
The answer is Lestat de Lioncourt. It doesn’t matter what we’re talking about, Lestat is the biggest gay disaster of all time. Even his mother will tell you that, and they had a relationship.
Rice certainly knew how to write queer calamities.
Jennifer, once again, displaying frightening levels of social perception.
Help me Becky McIntyre, you’re my only hope
You must learn the ways of the Force if you are to come with me to Oregon.
Be careful! I hear the Trail to Oregon is fraught with peril!
(and do not disrespect Terry, no matter what)
Jennifer/Billie going tsundere for Dorothy.
“Baka Dotty!! I don’t like you!!!”
*runs away*
If only Jen had a skateboard.
Don’t trust a girl who kisses you then skateboards away.
Flashbang!
the omnicule cannot be stopped
It consumes all.
… soggies may rule?
Different kind of soggy this time around
Snoggies may rule
Psst.
**whisper** I think Madock345 was talking about panties.
**at full volume**
But yeah, nice snog pun. Cheers.
The omnicule!!!
Somehow that statement makes me want to punch Dorothy in the face more than any other time.
Perhaps it’s the subtle pity party from her own choices that it implies.
Yay to Jennifer for thinking about Walky here.
Dorothy is constantly ragging on herself for hurting Walky and then doing nothing to fix it, it’s one of her most obnoxious traits.
I love Dorothy, but nobody bemoans Dorothy’s mistakes more than Dorothy, and nobody learns less from any of them, or at least, how to apply lessons learned.
It does get irritating when she. I don’t really know how to put it, defaults to the script? See, dotty has a script for every social interaction (very relatable, how did this woman ever think she was NT). She has a list in her head of the Correct™ things to say and do in any given situation. It ties in a bit with the white liberal politics but it goes beyond that. That’s not to say she doesn’t mean what she says but it can feel ingenuine. Like it’s been passed through a PR team already. She’s terrified of ever saying the Wrong™ thing, and I get that, I’m fully there, but it makes her talk to people in ways that just, feels bad.
Its the Correct™ thing to acknowledge the ways in which she’s hurt Walky, but she still hasn’t recognized and addressed the underlying issues at the root of her behavior. This quirk of hers feels, the most annoying when Walky is involved since he’s such an unserious person and because he’s the biggest victim of this behavior so far. It really highlights the, stiltedness of these responses. And he doesn’t like it, no one wants their first love to talk to them like a politician putting out a mandatory response to a tragedy. Its something I kinda hope gets worked on
Oh my god. That’s Dorothy’s problem. She thinks she is the obnoxious smug liberal Hillary Clinton expy everyone treats her as, and she thinks she’s not allowed to be more/doesn’t deserve it, and doesn’t realize existing as a human being will make her a whole round person whether she likes it or not.
I think that’s a good way to put it. She knows that she should feel remorse for how she treats Walky, and to some degree she certainly does, but she never connects this knowledge with an actual change in behavior, especially when doing so in this case would have precluded her from being able to have Joyce, something she wanted desperately. Genuinely, it’s a very compelling character flaw, and one I hope gets more actual focus beyond Dorothy constantly bringing it up and then not following up on it
Yeah, it’s definitely why Dorothy is and continues to be one of my favorite characters. Her flaws are very compelling to me.
You know what, good for Jennifer.
Glad someone is actually calling Dorothy on how she treated Walky besides Dorothy herself doing her extremely annoying pattern of acknowledging how she keeps hurting him, feeling bad about it, and then continuing to do it anyway.
It’s not like Billie is actually a good friend to Walky. She’s just going to see him to make herself feel like a hero, and because her “cool kids” friend group is unbearably toxic.
Billie is his sister. She cares about him.
I think people just generally forget that all three of the walkerton kids (yes billy included), are pretty emotionally stunted.
Walky tends to fully shut away from his honest feelings, Sal lets them fester and Billy often lashes out. Especially since she, like Sal is in a way trying to escape her past.
Like I can sorta see how people only see Billy as that kinda alphadog problemsolver with a very toxic side that pushes people away but she so clearly cares about Walky still and its frustrating that people just kinda toss that side of her fully to the sideline to paint her as some kind of one-dimensional character.
To be fair, she often paints herself as a one-dimensional character.
Wonder if she believes it…
Billie is not Walky’s sister. Sal is Walky’s sister. Walky and Jen first met on a school bus. They’ve been friends, more or less, on and off, since childhood, but they are not siblings, and this insistence that they are is getting a little weird.
jennifer met walky at the busstop, billy spent 12 years as walky’s adaopted sister (he and sal joke about it and every thing) i think it was even mentioned that “the 3 walkerton kids” was a thing at school pre-sal getting sent out of state. and once sal was sent away billie stepped into the full sister role. she spent so muh time with walky she has intimate knowledge of starwars characters from non movie media, so yeah we call her walky and sal’s sister cause that is the dynamyc they themselves have adopted.
Is the Star Wars thing from knowing Walky? I wasn’t aware he had any interest in it. I thought Star Wars was Billie’s thing only.
It’s Billie’s thing.
i do not have the patience to go on an archive dive, but i was fairly certain walky and billie talk strwars in the early strips, walky is more into dexter and monkey, but was definately as knowledgable as billy regarding starwars (my memory says she comments about only knowing starwars stuff cause of hanging with walky so much
Direct that criticism at Willis then, they’ve been called basically siblings and Billie the third walkerton child (or preferred daughter) multiple times. Sal and Billie aren’t even close and she’s referred to her as one of the siblings before
Remember when Billie got a bigger care package from their parents than Sal did?
Yeah, it’s kind of a Thing
Jennifer can be a shitty friend and she invests a lot in her self-image as a problem solver, but these are not mutually exclusive with her sincerely caring about people.
I’ll be honest, I was not expecting any other character to show concern for Walky in all this. Even though we’ve gotten to see his internal troubles, most other characters seem to consider him unflappable. It’s nice to see Jennifer thinking about him.
Not so nice to see her running away from her sexuality but ya can’t win em all.
that’s a real Bojack Horseman pattern of behaviour from her, it would be very interesting if she fucked up her life and all her relationships by repeating it over and over just like he did.
Please, Willis have Dorothy cheat on Joyce with Joe thinking it’s okay and it turns out it’s not okay that would be so goddamn funny.
You put into words something I really disliked about Dorothy, but could never articulate. She acknowledges that she needs to do things differently, implements self-loathing, then does nothing about it and keeps doing the things she’s bemoaning.
And it’s not just about Walky.
Yes, why can’t a 19-year-old just be all grown up and mature about things?
Damn god forbid someone point out a character flaw. Why don’t we kist sit around and glaze these fictional characters instead, bc they’re young and dumb so engaging in discussion about their deliberate weaknesses is pointless, clearly
It’s not like anyone is making any moral judgements here either lol, literally just pointing out a character flaw that creates an aspect of the character they dislike. Like what, am I supposed to like that Dorothy consistently disregards Walky, feels bad about it, and then doesn’t change her behavior at all? Am I supposed to not point out that she does that?
The only characters I’ve got a Glaze On Sight Policy on are Alice, Ruth, and Dina, in that order. Everyone else is free game.
I like the cut of your jib
Mods, Dot threatened to cut my jib. Time that person out for at least 10 seconds.
It is,Its frustrating how because Walky is so conflict avoident Dorothy alway puts his feelings last even when they should be front and center because she doesn’t worry about him tearing her a new one like Becky.
The pajama jeans incident ruined them in my eyes. Walky found something that gave him joy and Dorothy not only rejected it but gave him an ultimatum. “It’s the pants or me.” And he chose the pants and everyone shit on him for it. But yknow what. Those pajama jeans have been way kinder to Walky than dorothy has.
Treat your boyfriends like pajama jeans treat them.
And the resolution to that conflict was, uhhhhhh.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/05-saturdays-all-right-for-slighting/everything/
😬
That.
Girl.
Is.
Poisoooooooon.
I remember it not sitting right with me at all at the time. Dorothy was so very clearly in the wrong!
Yeesh. I legit forgot how selfish and shallow Dorothy looked in that stupid argument or how bad Joe was in general back then.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/05-saturdays-all-right-for-slighting/no/
Yikes. Time really matured them up a lot. I get it now. Walky and Dorothy? Never again please.
It matured Joe for sure, although he had to take his lumps along the way. Dorothy… let’s see how she handles her first real argument with Joyce. Because with the Joe poly plate still in the air, that’s coming soon.
we have yet to encounter a single person besides Sarah who reacts to them with the “hey what the fuck” this situation warrants. so far we have very tepid reactions from Joe and Walky and a congratulations from Billie.
I ask again, why blow up the storyline for the sake of drama if there is no drama?
with every passing strip it feels more like they’re hammering the readers over the head with “the author finds this sexy and cute and therefore so should you”
Billie’s “congratulations” is tempered with a veiled chastisement of Dorothy (and Joyce) for the hurt they’ve caused, in particular to Walky. She was never gonna dress them down like Sarah did, but I think this response is pretty close to what I would have hoped for.
I guess I was expecting something more explosive from Billie, the queen of drama herself.
unfortunately we are getting jennifer, holier than thou, friend to everyone (in her head) rather than billie selfdestructive queen of drama
To me she’s coming off more or less apathetic to these two dumbasses and more concerned about how walky’s doing. It was a very dry congratulations, she’s not applauding while hitting them with the “omedetou~~”
Jennifer’s definitely not giving them a congrats for what they did, like she even says there was collateral damage. She’s more just congratulating the realization, which is valid.
Joe literally wanted this, and Walky was place-holding until Amber was ready to be his girlfriend again.
Good point. Plus Walky is still rebounding from Lucy.
And Dorothy tried her luck with him while he and Lucy were together. The one-sided un-serious-ness of their relationship is kind of a mirror to Amber’s “this is nothing.”
Yeah, people seem to have missed they were “together” for exactly three days this time. Three days.
Yeah, and it’s been 11? for Joe and Joyce. I think pulling the “it was so short, clearly it didn’t mean much!” just doesn’t make sense at the timescale this webcomic is operating at. There’s better arguments to make (like a few of the comments above yours).
This is what I’ve been saying. Those “11 days” were two years of real time.
I know. I must once again complain about this comics pacing. I shouldn’t get invested in relationships for years and have them break up and act like my investment is silly cuz for them it’s only been a week. Sorry they put me in the hyperbolic time chamber for this one.
I wouldn’t say Joe “wanted” this — more like he saw the writing on the wall and pre-empted a compromise.
This. The jury’s still out on whether Joe is “considered the situation, and decided he would be willing to try out polyamory” or “saw the writing on the wall, and is grasping at straws trying to salvage what he can of his first real relationship”.
I don’t think that was Walky’s attitude here. I don’t think he has any expectation that he might try to get back with Amber, honestly
That was Amber’s plan, not Walky’s. Her injuries came at a bad time for following up.
It’s disappointing to see how little negative consequences Dorothy and Joyce have gotten so far for their cheating and other shitty behavior. I hope they run into more people who have similar reactions to Sarah soon.
Alice was helping earlier…
Why? Like…Sarah just actually realized Joe is normal person, a dude she was pretty repulsed by for a few months and Billie’s known Walky since she was like 5 but didn’t want to be associated with him for awhile. These two are their most upset on these boys’ behalf? Fine sure, whatever. Why should anyone else ‘invoke consequences’ (whatever the hell that means) why should anyone else ACTUALLY give a damn?
Hurting people emotionally is real, we get it, I’m sorry folks have been cheated on and such, but like…it’s a couple of boys in their “barely-not-really 20’s” who have been cheated on by two girls realizing they’re queerer than they thought they were (in fucking Indiana), boys they were dating for…what, a couple of weeks? Walky just got out of another relationship and before that him and Amber had some shit going on while Joe literally slept with a solid chunk of their Freshmen class and nearly had sex with Sarah’s sister like…I’m not saying these things as negatives or whatever, or even comparable to “cheating”, I’m saying these relationships are ephemeral cause these people are barely adults.
“Negative consequences”, like c’mon.
Bruh, nobody’s saying they should be expelled. But something on the magnitude of, I dunno, a couple weeks of judgmental looks from their floormates, would be completely fair. Or Sal having half as many terse words for them on her brother’s behalf as Sarah did on Joe’s behalf, instead of being completely blasé about it (Walky hasn’t always a major champion for Sal either [eg with their mom], sure, but he’s made progress, and he didn’t blow off Amber’s history with Sal like this). Now, Billie being mostly blasé about it was more in character though so *shrug emoji* on today’s comic I suppose.
On the other hand, I just posted elsewhere that I’m not convinced Walky was nearly as into Dorothy this time around as Billie remembers him being the first time, so maybe Sal knows that.
Did sal even know dot and Walky got back together?
“who have been cheated on by two girls realizing they’re queerer than they thought they were”
Being bisexual doesn’t make you cheat, it just means you are “morally bankrupt”. Their being queer does not give them a pass.
i love reading sane adult takes. wanting characters to get “judgemental looks” so that they can be punished for their choices instead of the real life nuanced way this works. god when i was in college some kid was changing their name and gender every few weeks cuz they were from a deeply red state and they were trying to figure out their shit, but would blow up if you fucked up their newest name/pronouns and interrupt class for it. i knew another girl who dated through a friend group in about three months before she came out as a lesbian (with her dorm roommate— NO ONE saw that coming lmfao). college is messy and these characters so far are reacting pretty normally. walky himself made a fuckin joke about it. the world is gonna move on. dorothy ABSOLUTELY has to examine why she keeps hurting the people she’s with while being self aware of it (remember danny?) and joyce absolutely needs to understand she cant be selfish about “getting hers” even after years of repression, but that happens normally and NOT getting GoT shamed with bells or what the fuck ever some of these commenters want.
Okay, but this is not reality, this is a STORY. Reality is frequently unrealistic and unsatisfying. Narratives kind of require that they be going some place. If this were a mostly plotless slice of life like how Diesel Sweeties was when I was a kid, I can promise there wouldn’t be a problem. But there is a plot, people just want to know when we can expect to see where it’s going. Because right now it’s just a tour with nothing happening. I would’ve rather Billie heard this from Walky so we see how he’s actually feeling and she can react from there, rather than two characters whom we have seen daily for weeks their feelings and how they haven’t changed and Billie showing the same level of mild approval/apathy we’ve gotten from everybody except Sarah, Raidah, and *barely* Joe
Here we go again. People should be *punished*. What *is* this mentality? People do stuff, bad shit happens, people are happy/unhappy etc etc. Real life is not a moral crusade, why should fiction be?
Because sometimes the fact that life isn’t a moral crusade can feel like the biggest fucking injustice.
We all know life isn’t fair and people get away with bullshit all the time.
Fiction gives people a chance to see something better. If the writer leans that way, anyway. Time will still tell exactly where this is going to end.
What the heck does THAT mean?
I mean, I get what you’re saying, but it seems very silly and a little bizarre to apply that to logic THIS situation. Like…what does “justice” look like here? What does that actually even mean in the context of two girls cheating on their boyfriends with each other? Should their friends ostracize them? Should they go on an apology tour?
If characters are mad at them and are frustrated with their choices, I get that, that’s just following characters as written but this weird upper meta-layer of “THERE MUST BE JUSTICE AND PUNISHMENT FOR THEIR TRANSGRESSIONS” is really weird to me.
They should buy Joe and Walky donuts.
Or maybe chicken nuggets.
Proxiehunter’s gag hits pretty close to the truth for me, honestly. “Justice” after all carries a connotation of “appropriate”.
What to me feels less realistic than is typical for DoA is that no one’s really fussed at all by this — anecdotes not being data, 100% of instances of cheating (even petty low-grade stuff like D&J did to W&J) led to a significant realignment of friend groups back when I was in college.
Hell, as this comment section amply demonstrates, a significant percentage of people have a visceral angry response to anything that could meaningfully be described as cheating, and the fact that we’ve had one “vaguely annoyed” response from Sarah and everyone else is relatively non-fussed so far seems statistically unlikely.
And thus, for at least some of us in the comment section, “they should be punished for this” is shorthand for “it seems really unlikely that their boyfriends are both just totally cool with things and that not a single one of their friend group has had anything more than a ‘you should’ve done better’ response.” I’ve said it before, but “it’s dumbing of age, not smarting of age” ought also apply to “college freshmen have all kinds of serious reactions to things that adultier adults would be able to be more chill about”.
Yeah, that’s where I’m at. Everyone just seems so WEIRDLY chill with this, so far. This is very not in line with what I remember teenage social groups being like. Teenagers, as the comments love to point out, are very dramatic! And over-react to things, taking what could be minor issues and making them bigger because, when you’re young, it DOES feel bigger!
I don’t expect them to be castigated in the streets but a little more ‘dude what the fuck?’ Would be. I don’t know, at least -interesting-.
People love to be all ‘its called DUMBING of age for a reason’ and ‘wow its almost like their teenagers who don’t react like mature adults’, until you have mild negative criticism ofvthis specific storyline, I guess. They you’re just an impatient toddler who’s also an emottianally stunted adult for the crime of ‘wanting these teens to have more teen drama.’
Fortunately for me, at least, the people who I’ve noted are most obnoxious on the whole “What, you think they should face any consequences at all? You’re gross for wanting them to be literally fired into the sun because there are no nuances or middle grounds!” are also openly “my ship shouldn’t have anything bad happen because I like it 😀 😀 😀 ” types so I can freely ignore them.
Yeah theres some people I just flat out don’t acknowlege the existence of in these comments because they’re just. Really mean people.
How I feel is we’ve barely seen anyones reactions yet. Joe fucking hates himself so if course he’s gonna say he’s cool with this, boosters so far on the fringes that they have no investment beyond drama, Walky is so obviously bottling up his feelings like he literally always does, billifer is just concerned with how walky’s doing. As for sal, dot and Walky got back together a couple days ago, did she even know? Ik they were at the party together but she was pretty distracted that night. We’ve only seen two friends outside the situation actually react. Joe and Walky are both emotionally stunted in different ways. Ik its hard because the pacing has slowed down to nothing, but just give it time. We still haven’t seen amber/mazi (I think they’re gonna have conflicting opinions about it), Becky, dina, Danny (he’s for sure gonna have some opinions). Chekovs Rachel is one I’m really looking forward to seeing. Practically no one has reacted yet, chill
I also note a pretty high correlation in this comments section between two pairs of views:
“Where are the consequences for this? It seems out of character/unrealistic.” correlates pretty well with “the pacing seems out of whack lately.”
“No consequences is fine. Why would you want to punish this?” correlates pretty well with “the pacing has always been like this.”
Bit of a tautology, though, isn’t it?
People who don’t like this arc… don’t like this arc. Part of what they’re not enjoying is the way it’s written: either they feel the characterization has gotten wonky or they feel like developments have been rushed or both, and scenes they’re not enjoying do genuinely seem to drag on forever while nothing they were hoping for happens.
And I know, I know, Willis originally planned this to happen five years from now, but they also originally planned for it to happen in 2022. I really don’t think it’s as simple as “this should have waited another five years, as was Willis’s original intent”.
And being honest: I’m not at all convinced the reactions people have been having would have been markedly improved by another five years of Willis dropping what they felt were already too-obvious hints, because the hints we’ve been getting since like 2019 did not help.
Yeah, it’s a little tautological, but that’s really part of my point. We have a bunch of different ongoing arguments, but I suspect a bunch of them ultimately just end up reducing to “I like/dislike this, and I’m hunting for a reason to justify it”.
I am not exempt! — as one of the “where consequences/drama?” + “pacing seems off” types, I wonder how much I care about “don’t cheat -> where consequences” vs. “I just don’t like Jorothy and really never have”.
At the same time, that also feels reductive vs. just assuming people’s criticisms/observations are valid on their face.
This is a reply to below but…
The hints were being dropped from like day 1 of the comic. There’s an early comic where Joyce is *literally carrying the bi flag* (Book 2 part 3 “league”) as she openly talks about how far Dorothy is out of Walky’s league
@supergluclose: let’s not confuse “Willis did a lot of stuff that NOW reads like intentional foreshadowing if you look for it” with “Willis was literally planning this from day 1”; they’ve basically confirmed they’ve been planning it since before the timeskip, and that’s why Dorothy and Joyce are next to each other in the rooftop scene, as well as why Becky’s “grr Dorothy is stealing my BFF” got brought back in and emphasized so strongly.
Moments prior to that comic strip are often “Willis tried to disclaim Joyce being attracted to girls, and accidentally made her look even more bi”, per Willis themself.
There’s a LOT of those, and Willis is retroactively validating all of them, but it’s not the same thing as “planned from day 1”.
@Big Z: oh, I didn’t mean to be reductive. :|a Though I do think my overall point can be kind of boiled down to…
It’s REALLY hard to be completely objective about art, especially when it gives you big feelings (positive or negative).
I think the folks who say the writing is bad now are being completely honest about their opinions, but I also think that if you really hate what a character is doing, and you previously liked that character, it’s going to feel like bad writing. At best, I think people are going to process that as character derailment. And I don’t think their feelings about it would become inauthentic even if the creator then proceeded to reveal a bunch of show bibles, notarized to prove when each one was created, that proved the character change had been planned and even foreshadowed for ten years.
Sometimes we’re wrong about where a character arc was headed, but can we ever really be wrong about where we feel that character arc should have been headed? I don’t think so.
I’m definitely not going to pretend I am personally objective enough about what’s going on to know whether this is good writing or not. I’m probably just gonna keep saying “I won’t know for sure how I feel about any of this until the arc is over”, and that’s gonna be like… a year from now. Even then, the part where I “finally” got “my” ship after 15 years is going to be such a massive Thing, I’ll have trouble seeing past it.
And I can very, very easily imagine a timeline where instead of getting “my” ship, that ship was instead smashed to smithereens…
…and I wanted to say I probably wouldn’t be very objective about the writing quality then, but honestly I would probably have stopped reading entirely! So let’s assume “no” on the “objective art criticism in the face of deep sadness”, heh.
(Very honestly: I wish everyone who’s not enjoying the strip right now a very “hopefully the next storyline is better for you”.)
@Li, I’m sorry, I meant *I* was being potentially reductive moreso than you.
ffffff
well I thought it was a fair criticism of my take too haha
@Li: Total aside: what kind of IT stuff do you do, and are you looking for a job still? I’m actually secretly an engineering manager. =P
sob, I am. I basically gave up and went back to get my BA, in the hopes that it would help. I’ve been told a couple of times that not having my BA was a problem this year. Just too much competition.
I’ve mostly been FE over the course of my career. When I started I knew PHP, JavaScript, MySQL, and (X)HTML + CSS. I’ve since taught myself a bunch of frameworks (Node, Express, MongoDb, Angular, Vue, TypeScript, and I’ve been dabbling in React), plus a few extra languages (SOAP, Perl), and lots of other concepts: REST and pseudo REST, AWS though it’s been a few years, unit testing (Karma and Mocha/Chai, Jest once it was more mature)… I like learning new things.
Currently in a C++ class (along with precalculus, ethnic studies, and a PE class for transfer credits), going to be doing more comp science and calculus and physics classes over the next two semesters before transferring. I’d like to move into more back-end stuff.
I’m also hoping the AI bubble pops before I’m out, because AI “””assisted””” code is just… at the most optimistic, spending the rest of your work life fixing bugs instead of actually writing new features. I like fixing bugs! I like refactoring! They’re kind of zen (as long as the bug isn’t super critical, which sometimes they are). But for that to be the only thing I do… I’d rather change careers.
(also thank you for asking??? like. I am not expecting anything, who knows if I’m even in the right area to be the kind of dev you’re hiring, etc, but it was very kind of you to ask.)
Clarifying on that last bit: I’m talking about using CoPilot to write code.
PRETTY SURE that’s different from the type of work you said you do with AI. 😉 Not at all sure I’m in the right part of the field, but again: just, thanks for asking. It’s been a real rough eight plus months sometimes, and more than anything else I want to contribute to household finances again. My partner has been an absolute angel about this but that doesn’t stop me from feeling crummy.
Oh yeah, back when I worked with AI at all it was “custom-trained single-purpose models” which are the only good use of AI at the moment, IMHO. None of the ChatGPT/Copilot LLM crap.
What I do these days is infrastructure engineering — lots of compliance work, infra-as-code, terraform, ansible, that kind of stuff. That said, a lot of the folks I work with are running Angular apps on my platform, usually with Tomcat/Java backends, but lemme shake the FE tree and see what might come out.
My biggest chunk of experience with Angular (6-ish years working for my immediately previous company!) was with a C++ back-end, but I’m sure you’re well-aware it doesn’t make any difference; the communication between the two was pretty much all in JSON. 🙂 My last big project was an accessibility push, which I basically spearheaded: organized a huge number of tickets from multiple different audits, got them all tagged up in JIRA, closed the ones that weren’t actually WCAG violations (there were a couple of ’em), identified level of effort and area of code concern, recommended specific teams to do them most easily (with the most familiarity on the area)… wound up also getting tapped to suggest or approve solutions on a ton of them, too. That was exciting — I learned SO MUCH about accessibility.
(I’ve had to parse XML and also SOAP, parsing JSON responses is so much better :’) )
Anyway, if there’s any room at your company, I will… well, first of all cry, but second of all be both bewildered and impressed that somehow “commenting on one of my favorite web comics led to a job interview”??? That was definitely not on my 2025 bingo card.
Yeah, the thirst for punishment in the comments is super gross. Some people seem like they aren’t going to be happy until Joyce & Dorothy are publicly flogged and forcibly broken up.
Don’t correlate the desperation for a consequence with the intensity of a consequence. If my little brother breaks my toys and I tell mom and she ignores me. I’m not mad because I want him to be thrown into traffic. I just desperately want *something* to happen so I don’t feel like there’s a precedent of “well it’s ok for him to break your things actually”
You hear that? Yoto wants Joyce thrown into traffic!!
I mean, Walky didn’t just shrug when he found about Amber’s history with Sal the way Sal was completely blasé when she caught Joyce & Dorothy. I don’t think anybody called for Joyce & Dorothy to go to prison, so maybe pUnIsHmEnT is a little much, but Sarah is the only one so far who’s even seemed to have minded.
The way I see it, Sarah’s the only one they’ve spoken to so far (outside of the boyfriends) whose life might be tangibly impacted by their pumpkin eating behavior, since she’s Joyce’s roommate and might occasionally have to sleep in the same room as these two bozos.
Sal is at least two degrees removed from both of them, and has a completely separate room from them as well, and she doesn’t even have 100% of the information about Joyce and Dorothy being sneakoids at her brother, so any objections she has to that are gonna have to wait until she actually knows.
Billie doesn’t even live in the same building anymore and only ever has to see them when she decides to come visit on purpose or when they share a class.
Daisy doesn’t get to have an opinion because she’s basically a stranger they sometimes give pieces of paper to.
Joe apparently wound Dorothy up and pointed her Joyceward because I guess he’s really into the idea of having a girlfriend who makes out with a woman who hates him, and even if he’s not, he’s at least willing to give it a try before he decides it’s not worth the trouble.
Walky’s just coasting and doing whatever the nearest woman says he should do, right now. He basically pity-fucked Dorothy and I genuinely don’t recall a single other thing they’ve done together since then, so unless it was particularly cute and showed any sign of him really wanting to stay together, I’m sure he’ll be fine moving on to his true love, Micheletto Greco.
For me its not about a punishment its just a question of why. Like if everyone just kinda roles with the cheating then why write it as cheating? Like seriously if they had had their respective break ups BEFORE the protest, had the big make out moment, and got their picture in the paper are any characters really in a different place?
Yeah, it sucks their lives didn’t collapse literally the morning after
This but unironically, it’d be something happening at least
lol.
what cheating?
I think Billy just doesn’t have the emotional bandwidth for anything but a light chewing out. Her mind’s pretty clearly already on how this would have effected Walky, especially with her second comment on Dot not realizing how much she ment to Walky
There are a couple of strips I think reallu highlight why Walky might be taking this better than we expect. I think it was hinted at he didn’t really have confidence in getting back together with Dorothy. Admittedly a “look” is inherently open to massive interpretation though. What do ya’ll think?
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2024/comic/book-14/04-for-me-it-was-tuesday/zigzaggin/
And again here.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2024/comic/book-14/04-for-me-it-was-tuesday/schema/
Paired with Dorothy’s dialog it almost feels like he knows getting back together more than just a brief hookup is a mistake. I think had casual sex for comfort and it morphed into getting recommitted because that’s convenient and habit, especially under internalized pressure to date unless ye be labeled a slut or a hussy.
Personally I think Walky is still not over Lucy at all because he didn’t appreciate her until she was gone and he feels inadequate because in his mind she immediately “upgraded” to a superficially more desirable male in Jacob. He needs time to sort that out.
Yeah, I think Walky was hit with the disappointment before he even got to enjoy the afterglow. Dorothy already nixed the possibility of their relationship being any different this time around, and he wasn’t thrilled with that. I think he’s always been much more emotionally invested than he likes or is willing to talk about, being unserious is a defense mechanism.
Oh, see, I take those as hints that this is going to hit Walky like a freight train once he stops dodging feelings like it’s his job. Walky was clearly hurt by the thought that “this” didn’t matter, imo at least. I think he’s starting to internalize how his relationships have all gone up in flames. I think he’s hurt and it’s gonna all pour out, hopefully soon
Joyce and Walky have so much in common. It’s almost like they might have been a couple in a past life or an alternate universe or something.
No way, those two could never work out. Completely incompatible 😉
This is so adorable. Everyone appreciates Dorothy far more than she appreciates herself. She’s even cuter than before here So nice to see these girls happy. And perhaps even Billie will find herself a girl to love.
She already has, her name is Ruth, and she just needs some more time to get back to her.
It is adorable. And Alice seems a likely candidate.
to bring back a punchline from yore “what you said, but unironically”. Dorothy is indeed a stupid dork, any attractiveness she had vanished along with her integrity in this storyline
Well you have something in common then
Dorothy Keener, Love Catalyst.
Doing this strip with dorothy/jennifer in the cursed ship poll on the side is funny
Loving the energy in the strip lately, and again, Jennifer speaks the truth. She’s been doing that a lot lately. Perhaps she’s going to grow a wisdom score.
Billie has always been socially sharp when the subject matter isn’t herself
Walky deserves better than how Dorothy has treated him. And how a lot of other characters have treated him throughout this comic, actually.
In fact he deserves better than Walky treats Walky.
Yes to this. My worry for Walky is that being with Dorothy was a proxy for self-esteem – if I’m with this amazing person, I must be doing okay
tbh im not even that worried about that specifically, but Walky does try to be a better person in every relationship he’s in only to get broken up with every time. And I really hope he doesn’t interalize that into some sort of idea that he’ll never be good enough to be loved
I can speak from experience that this is exactly where he’s headed.
With love for Walky, sometimes his best wasn’t great re: Lucy. I’d argue this Dorothy/Walky rebound is less about sadness over losing Lucy and more about needing comfort after a confrontation with Linda. Brains aren’t logical though and I could totally see him thinking there’s something wrong with him as a mental smokescreen in front of the monumental, terrifying task of addressing the spectre of racism in his family… AGAIN… perhaps even how it’s damaged his ability to feel he has agency in his life.
sadness over being dumped (by Lucy)*
Let’s just call it a day and put him in a different strip where none of us have to deal with- i mean are able to mistreat him anymore.
So, Amber
Yep. Walky and Amber getting back together might be the only thing to salvage this storlyline for me at this point.
I wonder how long it will take him to learn she’s injured?
We deserve better than repetition.
Music fans with attention problems when they hear the same bar more than one time in a row:
Charlie Brown didn’t deserve Lucy but there we go
My headcanon is they get unhappily married for a while.
I don’t know; “In The Hall of the Mountain King” is a banger, and it’s literally nothing but repetition varied.
I never realized this before and I am mildly upset by it.
Huh, you know how the author sometimes posts teasers of upcoming strips in the little BlueSky side bar thingy? I just saw one for march of next year and Billie’s hair is in a bun, which I don’t think her current hair style can pull of. Therefore, I wonder if we are getting another time jump.
too be fair I also didn’t her current hair to be able to be pulled back into a ponytail with her big ass scruchy but then she somehow pulled that off too
She did already
girl come on.
You know, it makes sense, but beyond that, I love that Jennifer has expressed attraction to quite a portion of the cast.
She has called Ethan and Joe hot, swung and missed on seducing Tony and Danny, has had sex with Asher and Ruth and Alice, crushed on Walky as a kid, drunkenly tried to kiss Sal even if she likely might not recall doing so, and now expressing attraction to Dorothy. Am I missing anyone?
Ethan is gay and Dorothy is bi so unless I’m mistaken Joe is the only straight hottie Joyce has pulled
Jacob
Jacob has canonically fucked six dudes. He only discovered he even liked women when he met Raidah.
Maybe she didn’t mean “straight” as in their sexuality but “straight” as an affirmative to how hot they are. Like saying “This song is straight fire!”
I thought flaming meant gay
I mean she sorta half-pulled Jacob? Who seems pretty straight
Those last 2 panels is exactly why Dorothy/Jennifer ranked so low on the most cursed ship pairing poll
The hold that Dorothy has on Walky?
Or the hand holding that lead those two dorks to figuring out some of their feelings?
Quick, Jennifer- throw a toy at her head!
Apropos of nothing
I was discussing DOA character body types with some friends and decided to try to roughly sketch out how I would go about drawing some of the main DOA girls to differentiate them. I used Joyce’s model as a base.
Picture is here
Joyce: Average height for the female characters. Notably curvy for her height.
Becky: The Player 2 to Joyce. Has more or less Joyce’s build but slightly less curvy and more lean.
Dorothy: All lean. Very slender while still being roughly Joyce’s height.
Amber: All Stocky. While not necessarily shown in the comic’s art style I like imagining she has a layer of fat over a hefty layer of muscle making her look even stockier than other girls her height. (Basically a combination of Amber’s sedintary lifestyle and Amazi-girl’s highly active one creating an ideal body builder build, making her a wall of muscle for roller derby and superhero antics)
Billie: The most pronouced curves of the cast. Unlike Amber who’s equally fat and muscle, Billie has more fat distribution. Her legs are taut and strong from being a cheerleader.
Dina: She smol.
Sarah. Really tall and somewhat lean. Not as lean as someone like dorothy or Dina but her height does make her curves less pronounced.
😛 I’m not really good at this sorta thing but I really like trying to differentiate characters based on their lifestyles and overall “vibes”
Link isn’t working sadly.
How Embarassing
Those are very good, I especially like the suble but distinct contrast between Billifer and Amber.
I like the way you draw bodies.
Point of order: Dorothy’s not a straight anything.
Billiefer running away, blushiiiing
I can’t help laughing at Joyce’s expression in Panel 3 XD
This feels like a subtle nudge that Billie is still somewhat protective of Walky since she pointed out that his feelings for her seem to be outwardly genuine.
Of course if taht is the case don’t expect Billie to ever admit so.
Is the site running *extra* slow today to anyone else?
Yes.
It was flat out not running at all for a while.
It was down for at least an hour or two for me.
Yeah something got royally fucked up, it wasn’t working at all for a bit
of course, because of sickos
Joyce with new-relationship energy is so precious!
Wait, is Dorothy a hottie? This needs to be examined. Perhaps there should be some kind of hottie evaluation system with a ranked list that… NO, BAD IDEA! FORGET THAT I SAID ANYTHING!
(Also, Dorothy is totally a hottie)
It was the catalyst for Joe’s character growth
If Billie did one, I would have considerably less confidence in a similarly positive outcome (and it was already amazing that Joe managed one)
The resulting trainwreck might merit some popcorn though
That or Dot just reminds Billy of someone
(short cut, freckles, glasses)
AMAZIEGIRL???
(Sorry, feeling silly)
Willis, maybe you shouldn’t run this server on an old Raspberry Pi.
That’s telling her, Jennifer! She’ll never see through that!
The site is back!!! YEEEEEE!
Awwwwwwww. Jennifer being a good friend/sister to Walky.
Wholesome! 😀
Such a long wait, Instant online gratification has lowered my patience quotient!
Well someone definitely has a taste for bony poindexters.
A hottie and a cutie.
Look on the brightside Dorothy maybe this is what he needs to finally admit your not perfect…then again there’s as much of a chance of that happening as Joyce admitting it.
Today, I’m especially wondering if Jennifer wants to be a good friend or if, as a bongo queen, she feels she should be.
off-topic, leaving aside the chain of thoughts, if Walky is lazy and uncommitted, how on earth are girls satisfied in bed?
My bed is very comfy and I am satisfied with it.
hey, this is a good one
Oh that wasn’t supposed to be a reply. I’m sorry but your comment is just sort of regular. since I’m here though: there’s a comic about Walky having sex that could probably answer your question
She wants to be a good friend because she cares about him but as always she feels the need to front about it.
Ehhhh but that was their first go-around. IMHO the guy Billie describes here wouldn’t have had the willpower to turn Dorothy down when she basically tried to get him to cheat on Lucy. I just don’t think he was nearly that into it the second time.
“Look, Dorothy’s straight.”
Along with “I’ve never seen you angry or petty before.”
Plus today? That’s three strikes, she’s gay for Dorothy.
I ship it
Jennifer is a mess but damn is she ever funny
A hot mess, let’s be reasonable here. She’s a big ball of issues with a fat ass, the way God intended.
OHHH SNAP
“‘Til we meet again!”
Did Willis sign a contract when he decided to go for DoJo that any conflict would get resolved in 3 strips or less?
Let’s take it from this morning:
Sarah: 3 strips then she’s too sore to complain anymore.
Joe: 3 strips from Joyce’s entrance to Joe’s “why” defusing all tension
Walky: literally 1 strip of Joyce being an asshole
Daisy: 3 strips of “nothing you can do”
Jennifer: 3 strips and now she’s running off.
I think it’s just literally “I wanna chew you out more but there’s more important shit to do right now”
like this isn’t payoff, we’re still in the narrative climb leading towards a big central climax most likely
Where do you think that conflict is going to come from, though?
My bet is monday morning when the Math Squad has to set out to class again since that’s when Sarah, Walky, Dot, Billy, Joyce, Joe, Sal, Lucy & Jacob are all gonna be in one place together which’ll probably come with a ton of unspoken tension that could easily lead to one big explosion
alternatively maybe something will happen later today after everyone’s seen the newspaper and then the next day the math squad will just be awkwardly tense or not even happen. Sarah still cross with Joyce and Dot while Billy, Sal & Walky split off seperately while Lucy & Jacob fully stay out of it all
I agree that things have gone a bit easy for them – I expected Billie to be harsher. But it’s not terrible. I expect Becky will be depressed but live (like last time). Dina will probably not care unless Becky does. Mary won’t like it, shocker. Mike’s ghost doesn’t talk to them. We know Amber doesn’t care much (or… prefers it this way, if you believe theories that she wanted Walky back). Sal will be angry, and her lack of approval will hurt Joyce, but it’ll be fleeting. Probably.
It’ll probably be fine until it gets to her parents. Just a guess.
So to be clear, you’re saying that if two people aren’t actively discussing a conflict between them right this moment, that means that conflict has been resolved?
No, but that certainly seems to be the state of things so far.
Sarah: she expressed her disappointment with Joyce, then went to shower. No conflict there.
Joe: certainly there’s setup for problems later but yes, the main conflict (Joyce was cheating) has been defused.
Walky: no conflict. All he’s done is take his lumps, and the way Dorothy’s been talking about him indicates that’s all she expects of him.
Daisy: their interaction ended up being more about Joyce’s comic strip. What conflict can we expect from her?
Jennifer: she literally congratulated them and ran off. What conflict can we expect there?
And how long has it been in-universe? Did you expect Sarah to skip showering in order to follow these two around campus, ringing a bell and crying out, “Shame! Shame”! Was Daisy, of all people, supposed to give a flaming rat’s ass about what they’re doing in their downtime, as long as their stories/comic strips are turned in on time?
Walky has cultivated a careful air of not giving a shit about anything, which may one day fall around him, but I doubt very strongly that the ending of a three-day booty call is going to be the catalyst. The situation with Joe is still there, and has been for less than an hour. Jen may or may not have more to say to them at a later date; she seems to resent that she “has to” go be a friend to Walky again, and it’s certainly not like she tends to hang out with him most of the time.
I’m not sure what you’re expecting to happen literally the morning after The Smooch. Yes, it’s been a long time for us, but these characters already have all the consequences we’re likely to give them. In-strip consequences take in-strip time.
I really think you’re operating under some kind of atypical understanding of what “conflict” and/or “resolved” means.
There wasn’t any conflict with Jennifer?
Yes that’s the problem.
There wasn’t going to be though, Jennifer actively encouraged them to bang, like the day or two before.
I really don’t think any of those are actually resolved, but I guess we will see.
Sarah leaving is not the conflict ending, and we still yet to see the full effect it had on Walky and Joe. Not everything has to happen immediately
Joe looked ready to cry last time we saw him, Walky didn’t even get the actual talk, and Dorothy has not been made privy to Joe’s offer to share. Literally nothing has been resolved.
Don’t be so Tsundere about it, Jennifer XD
The entire series is gonna end in one giant fuckpile. Daisy finally gets to kiss girls at that point.
giant fuckpile on the one day Daisy was out of town. series ends on a Darth Vader style “Noooooooo!” when Daisy returns the day after
Daisy would make an excellent Joker.
Yeah Daisy would miss the fuckpile. Maybe she stepped out for pizza and comes back to find everything on fire!
“WELP CAN’T TALK WITH YOU LOSERS GOTTA GO HELP WALKY GET THROUGH THIS”
That Jennifer; she’s so generous. So giving.
See now I hope Joejoyrothy works out just to see the force of billies ‘OH, *COME* ON.’
She’d be able to boil a kettle through sheer rage alone.
and now I’ve said too much
that’s me being horny
that’s me in a panic flight
running through the pigeons
wishing I’d hooked up with you
only Ruth knows I want to do it
This needs more appreciation
I get some peeps are upset that bar for Sarah noone’s really chewing out these two for cheating on their mutual friends but honestly I’m just excited for more genuine Walky/Billy sibling stuff
Jennifer running away like Skeletor – “UNTIL NEXT TIME…”
jennifer not beating the allegations
Jennifer has never beaten an allegation in her life.
Looking forward to Dorothy’s reaction to Joe refusing to simply be broken up with and suggesting Joyce date both of them.
Does she still resent Joe enough to make Joyce choose one or the other? Will she suggest the same to Walky? Will Walku have yet another girlfriend by the time she gets around to suggesting it?
Yo Wllis can I plz comment, I’ve been reading for years 🙁
I mean, honestly, I feel like that bridge was burned when Joyce intentionally broke up Waky and Dotty. You can’t ask your girlfriend to accept you having a boyfriend when you’re unwilling to let her do the same, and dragging Dotty out of the room while kissing her and laughing maniacally…I mean, that’s not just burning the bridge, that’s dropping napalm on it while it’s loaded with TnT and then dropping a nuke on the cinders.
All that to say I don’t think Dotty’s feelings about Joe are going to be the problem. It’s Joyce’s feelings about DOROTHY that are gonna get in the way. And I think Joe kinda knows it and that’s why we got sad face the last time we saw him.
Whether or not Walky gets a new girlfriend I hope that after this he stops considering any future with Dorothy, non of them are in a great headspace for dating and she in particular seems to be chasing the high of new relationships to avoid going to therapy.
She goes to therapy, she just lies to her therapist.
By go to therapy I meant have an honest discussion with said therapist. She told Ruth she wouldn’t do that because it would kill her political career except now she doesn’t even want that path or Harvard but still doesn’t want to admit there’s a problem.
Wonder what’s gonna happen now that she has Joyce but is still getting PTSD flashbacks.
We don’t even know if she’s had a therapy appointment since she stopped having political ambitions let alone if she’s stopped lying to her therapist.
Am I the only person that Dorothy sets off TransDar for ? Anybody else. Right here, Dorothy just accepts the full framing of her being both Straight and only questions the hottie part.
Another thing Billy just emphasized that Walky wouldn’t admit he liked girls until Dorothy. Any other author id overlook it.
But if Dorothy comes out as Trans No one it wasn’t planned. Or “it came out out of nowhere” .
She’s been in the middle of existential identity crisis for 3 years of story. dumping Walky. Dumping her presidential plans. Being held up almost gutted. Getting kidnapped. Seeing a murder. She dated walky to feel normal. It didn’t work. Now she’s with Joyce ( guess what kids, it’s not going to work either. Not unless the comic ends. ) she was a supervillain in its Walky. I think Dorothy is still headed for big changes if timeline and plot allows.
“straight hottie” is a phrase which here means “really hot,” it’s not implying that Dorothy is straight, she’s observably not.
She is however perhaps the cisest cis woman I’ve ever seen. If Willis wants to have an arc about someone actually coming to terms with and coming out as trans, they should do it for an actual egg. Perhaps one who is always wearing a hoodie and plays the ukulele.
I gotta say, Walky is the character I actually get way more egg vibes from. He’s quite proud of how much he looks like his sister.
Let me push my agenda.
There can be two eggs in the cast.
Dorothy would REALLY need to give up on being president then 🫠
Nah, I get those vibes off of Billie though.
Silksong today!
Update: Silksong as soon as Steam figures out how to fix Silksong wanters breaking the entire Steam Store.
Hey being the game that broke steam for how many people want it is pretty good publicity
Update to the update:
1) it seems like it actually broke EVERY digital gaming storefront.
2) it’s pretty good so far even though I STILL can’t tell if it’s intended to be a sequel or prequel.
I restarted my playthrough six hours in because i made too many dumb mistakes mostly related to losing all my money several times by going to areas i was not ready for and the fact that i don’t mind it that much say wonders about it honestly
Does anyone have an up to date love dodecahedron?
This whole story line feels like a bad TV show. Where there was a season finale cliff hanger that ended with the ship exploding, the bad guy getting the McGuffin, and the main character getting shot. Then the next season started and just went ” nah its fine none of that did anything back to status quo”
Like this kicked off and it felt like it was going to be this big “yeah they cheated but think of all the drama” but then everyone’s just been kinda like “eh okay” and shockingly little drama.
Which at that point why write it as a cheating storyline if cheating doesn’t have an impact? Why not have them have a “oh this ain’t platonic” realization and then go break up, then hook up?
The “think of all the drama” stuff mostly came from ghe comments, so it was mostly especulation that ended up being wrong.
Sure maybe but the question remains, why set this up as a situation which inherently should generate a lot of drama and then underplay the drama?
Because is their comic and they can fo what they want with it? I dunno what you expect me to tell you honestly.
Yeah and I’m allowed to critique the creative choices made therein.
No we’re not, i guess?
According to who? Name even one person who’s stopping you from giving your critique. Because it looks like everyone is saying their piece without prevention. It’s a public site, people can disagree with you on matters of severity without you being “not allowed” to say what you already said unimpeded.
The drama comes from Dorothy and Joyce being so damn self-centered about all this.
And from the comment section not realizing that Dorothy and Joyce are being weirdly self-centered about this.
Could had fool me with the dozens of stuff saying they are being seld centered
Okay but switch the events like if instead of
Protest > break ups > newspaper
It went
Break ups > protest > newspaper
What’s really different?
Well, if they already realized their feelings and broke up with their boyfriends, they wouldn’t have the big kiss at the protest at all, so there wouldn’t be a newspaper photo of them. So the storyline would have been entirely different.
Sure they can,
Dorothy realizes she wants to be with Joyce, breas up with Walky.
Joe catches Joyce making eyes at Dorothy and brings up the whole polycule idea.
Joyce and Dorothy are both too nervous to tell each other they go to.the protest and have the big.moment as the reveal to each other.
Like you really dont to change all that much to end up in the same situation with out the cheating
well you see, a total of 16-ish in-universe hours have passed, and sometimes drama comes in different forms than everyone you know immediately spawning in next to you to deliver a sermon about why you’re going to hell. Sometimes drama happens, like, a little bit at a time, as is seen in popular queer fiction Dumbing Of Age literally every other time something has ever happened.
It took *months* of strips for the characters to even realize Mike had been murdered, including someone whose headmate was a *witness*. You think Dina and Leslie are gonna start speedrunning their cloying lectures just so you don’t need to be uncomfortable for a few more weeks?
If you want to compare it to a TV show, it’s more like a multipart episode where part 1 ends on a cliffhanger. Yes, it’s been a week since you watched that, but do you think it’s weird when part 2 starts and the characters haven’t suffered any consequences yet for the end of part 1?
I’m gonna keep drumming this drum – the Smooch happened literally yesterday. As did the police riot at the protest. Give it a minute.
Sure, but it’s not just that a lot of time has passed for us, or even that not much has for them, it’s that we’ve actually addressed a lot of things that looked like they could led to big drama and they just didn’t. Or got postponed for potential future different drama.
Like TV serials often used to do: like close on dramatic jump scare of a mysterious threatening figure, only to reveal next episode it’s actually just the hero’s friend in bad lighting.
Ethan/Asher has been happening for way longer than Joyce/Dorothy and the other shoe is yet to drop on that one, the storytelling is decompressed so lots can still happen. Do you know how long it took to resolve the case of the Whiteboard Dingdong Bandit?
I honestly struggle to see what anyone sees in Dorothy but I guess she’s just SUPER not my type.
She’s white girl with a short cut, glasses and freckles. I think Billy just has a type
she’s an anxious, bisexual trash fire of a person, which is the hottest thing anyone could be
Smart girls are super hot.
I agree. But Dorothy’s like…jeopardy smart. She knows a lotta facts but she’s not like. Clever.
She’d be more my type if she was more assertive and also a femme dyke but right now she’s just the kind of person who sort of annoys me lol
So Sarah was straight up offended.
Joe planted a hand grenade in their Eden.
Jennifer called out Dorothy and left to deal with Walky.
Walky is depressed.
Alice has activated Raidah.
Danny called out Dorothy in advance.
Amber will not be pleased with how Walky and Joe were treated.
Becky is yet to come.
The pair are riding on new relationship energy but the drama tag has definitely been pulled. This is not going well for them.
Amber set this in motion.
Walky is indeterminate at this time.
weird assumption about Amber considering she was arguing to Amazi-Girl that Joyce and Joe shouldn’t even be together, like, two nights ago
Sarah was offended on behalf of Joe, who has now been talked to and claims to be fine with it, including being willing to step aside if that’s what Joyce wants. It’ll be weird if Sarah continues being upset for him when he’s not upset.
If stupid dorks aren’t hotties, then Joyce wouldn’t pull.
*runs away* Until next time!
This comment, right here, that’s the answer to the universe
I love Willis heavily implying on Bluesky that their readers are a bunch of Dannies, and not the new Danny either.
I think Dorothy is cute here. The way she looks at Joyce, and her reaction to Jennifer. I don’t think she is aving a self-esteem thing, I think she’s just surprised and kind of touched that Jennifer thinks she’s hot.
lots of people still seem to think willis writes fundamentalist morality plays instead of a gay webcomic where girls become gayer and gayer every in-universe day
Yeah, it’s pretty weird. I wonder if there’s a correlation between people who have been reading since those early days and people who want to see Dorothy & Joyce punished for their sins.
Run Billie! Run from the sexies!!
You want drama? Bulmeria, weakened by civil war, is invaded by Brutopia.
Ah, good routine, didnt stick the landing though.
My bet here continues to be that Jennifer hasn’t talked to Walky yet and therefore doesn’t know how he was broken up with.
But if I had to choose I would definitely pick “comforting Walky” as a higher priority for her than “lambasting Dorothy”, so I won’t be too terribly sad if she doesn’t circle back later? I just also think circling back later would make sense.
I continue to sympathize with folks who wanted more angry yelling at the girls. I sympathize less with folks who don’t think Joe and Walky’s reactions so far have made sense, because they were definitely foreshadowed in multiple strips. That we weren’t sure what Joe and Walky’s complicated facial expressions meant before doesn’t mean those panels didn’t happen or that rereading wouldn’t turn up a fair bit of Willis showing us Joe’s suspicion and hope that he and Dorothy and Joyce could work something out (especially the way he spoke to Dorothy while she was freaking out) — as well as Willis showing us Walky’s resignation.
I don’t even think Jennifer’s statement up above about Dorothy having a hold over him is true anymore, but I might be wrong there! We’ll see soon.
Also is it me or is that reference to Walky specifically not having been willing to admit to liking girls prior to Dorothy a bit of a hint.
DoA could still get gayer (umbrella term), after all!
So, firstly, Walky has been in the one strip since June 22nd. If his reaction is important to the comic, and I would argue that it should be, at least more than it has been, no amount of reaction later can really make up for that. The *only* reaction we’ve seen so far is him going “welp, I should have expected that” in the context of Joyce literally laughing in his face. I don’t even like Walky and I think he’s been done pretty dirty over the past few months. It’s really hard to gauge his reaction when we have precisely one panel of it.
Moving on- with Joe, his prior conversation with Dorothy certainly is some strong evidence that his reaction here makes sense. He’s been aware of the dynamic between these two.
But also we have a ton of evidence that he regards infidelity as a big fucking deal. He’s seen firsthand what it did to his mom, and built his personality around avoiding relationships specifically because he didn’t want the possibility of inflicting that pain on someone- but at the same time he also avoided having it inflicted on him. He’s called what Joyce did cheating. And that whole sitch appears to be a wet fart for his character arc.
With Joe not wanting to break up with Joyce, with him being open to her dating both him & Dorothy at the same time, the drama and problems that I expect to come out of their attempt at a throuple/polycule would be about Joyce always considering him after Dorothy. That’s absolutely a related issue, don’t get me wrong, but I have a big problem with it.
Joyce neglecting Joe in a polycule loses out on some absolutely *amazing* dramatic irony. Joe being so concerned about becoming his dad only to find out he’s become his mom hits a lot better when it’s specifically in regards to cheating since that’s the specific thing Joe was so worried about.
Honestly, while I’m not an author, as someone who consumes media I have a hard time understanding why Willis passed that opportunity up.
Hello, Rogue!
1. I’m certainly not talking just about Walky’s reaction to actually being broken up with, I am talking about the entire way he’s been interacting with Dorothy since before Lucy broke up with him. Not just how he reacted when Dorothy offhandedly said “this is different, if I make a mistake it doesn’t matter”, but also how he reacted when he realized Lucy was potentially rebounding with Jacob.
2. Everything you’re saying about Joe is… fanon.
It makes sense! I can see where folks are coming from with it! But in terms of textual support, what we’ve seen Joe actually be distressed over on-page are “divorce”
(very generally!) (nothing about Joyce’s parents splitting up should remind Joe of his own dad, there’s no infidelity, it’s about as different as two situations could be, but Joe was really upset!)
and the idea that he might “ruin” Joyce by having sex with her
(which has gotten a BUNCH of strips about it, including him seeking out Roz’s advice and very directly saying that’s what he’s afraid of, and it was reinforced when Liz panicked)
but not so much about being cheated on, or even about cheating himself.
Like, Joe worrying about becoming his dad? Is a popular headcanon, but he’s never actually said he was worried about that. He was worried that Joyce would regret “letting” him be her first, but he’s never actually said anything about being afraid of hurting her the same way his dad hurt his mom… and if his mom was his dad’s first, if there was any kind of experience gap there, Willis hasn’t indicated as much.
So.
What we’ve actually had months of build-up on has been Joe trying to tell Joyce that he wants her to have the things she wants, and Joe talking Dorothy through admitting she had feelings for Joyce.
In terms of “lost potential” — I think that would make an awesome fanfic, but I don’t think Willis has ever actually said anything or written any strips to make us think that Joe had serious trauma around his dad’s infidelity (specifically) rather than just… more GENERALLY being reluctant to try to have serious relationships, which is a very typical reaction to divorced parents (generally).
In fact, if you read the strips about the “Do” List again, you’ll notice that Joe frames it as something he used to think was funny but now realizes was not funny, and that he talks about how he was wrong to try not to view other people as people.
That latter thing is what Joyce actually CALLS him on, you see. It’s what he actually SAID the list was, and what he says he wants to fix, when he approaches Amber afterwards.
“Sorry, I’m trying to learn how to view other people as people again.”
There is a critical lack of ANY implication, at any point, that he was even thinking of his dad’s infidelity, much less that he was afraid of cheating on other people or being cheated on himself.
If that’s actually Willis’s intent with Joe, I like Joe’s character arc even less than I did.
Sorry if I turn out to be right, then?
Bluntly, though, while I like aspects of the theory, I think it would really run the risk of giving Joe a Freudian excuse for his previous shitty behavior, and, upon rereading strips where Willis is actually addressing Joe’s past behavior, they’ve never seemed interested in making excuses for it.
He was being a specific type of misogynistic jerk. He got found out as a jerk, and was initially VERY defensive and dismissive about it. Joyce pointed out that his jerkiness was dehumanizing. Joe rolled his eyes and told her it was better and easier for everyone to be a little bit dehumanized. Then he realized he’d struck a nerve.
Joyce told him what she’d been through, and that the worst part of it was not just how “Ryan” had dehumanized her, but knowing that a LOT of other guys were also dehumanizing her and other women like her.
Joe saw the error of his ways and decided to work on himself, slowly but surely unlearning his previous patterns of behavior.
……….Does it not throw kind of an ugly wrench in the above narrative if, that whole time, Joe’s dehumanization had come directly from a place of terror and trauma? Would it not retroactively make Joyce an insensitive asshole in that scene?
Do you really think it’s likely Willis would have intended Joyce to be an insensitive asshole in they scene, where she made herself so vulnerable?
Do you really think that would be better, for Joe’s character?
Honestly i never thought of it like that, everyone repeat that he had trauma about infidelity si much that i kinda just accepted but this actually makes a lot more sense thanks
It’s a very compelling idea! And there’s a LOT of comic.
I think if you haven’t reread the actual part of the story with the “Do” list where Joe talks about his motivations for making it, the idea that he was being An Ethical Slut for trauma-based reasons makes so much sense and has no downsides…
But if you DO go back and reread, and you pay attention to what Joe says about the list through all phases of the storyline, and especially the lesson he personally seems to take to heart from it? Then the idea that it was a trauma response starts to feel not only a lot less likely, but kind of ooky.
It would certainly be a TWIST, but it would be the same kind of twist as revealing that Sal’s mom was never racist. Like, okay, expectations subverted, but kind of a weird way to do that? Willis specifically addressed the idea, saying it would have been gross to have the twist be “the Black girl is wrong about a white woman being racist”.
Similarly, I think it would be kinda icky to have a twist that retroactively makes every girl who ever called Joe out wrong to have done so.
And I know that some folks have specifically complained that they DO feel like that’s been what Willis has been doing — that Dorothy, Sarah, and Rachel all keep reminding us of Joe’s past behavior just so that Willis can shut down the idea that he ever did anything wrong…? But that feels shortsighted to me.
“Joe has changed, and he isn’t the guy these girls remember him being” is a very different thing for the narrative to be saying than “actually, Joe was NEVER the guy they thought he was, and they were always wrong to complain about his behavior”.
Jennifer is confronted by two women who found out they have fluid sexualities and are a little bit gay and she’s still terrified of letting in the realization that she dates more women than men.
And more women than they do.
yuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuup.
i am really looking forward to what question or action does make the new relationship energy pop in the future. joe was both very sweet and open to dorothys feelings for joyce before even she was aware, and then was also patient with joyce when he was absolutely allowed to be deeply upset— but he hasnt reacted like he would have “normally”, so i really hope we get to see joes real thoughts in the coming weeks.
danny im also curious to see— he disliked walky because he dated amber and dotty, but will danny show walky compassion in a shared sense of “yeah she dumped me pretty unceremoniously too” sort of way? i also think it would be interesting for it to be revealed that walky isnt as affected by this than whats expected, which will be the catalyst to getting him more character development. im sure seeing him mad will be interesting to certain garbage roof parties as well.
and then theres still radiah who has well earned beef with joyce, alice who has no emotional ties to this friend group so she can spill the beans in an in opportune way, and gosh theres still becky. i hope dina and becky survive, but i also think becky not freaking out would be a character growth opportunity for her too! UGHHH its all so complicated and juicy.
ugh this is all so dramatic and interesting but thank god this comic is written by an adult and not some of these commenters here. theres absolutely going to be consequences for how theyve been behaving (which absolutely will be deserved but only NARRATIVELY since this is FICTION) but its definitely not going to be something as usless and shallow as public shaming. 🙄
It’s kinda funny how Joyce and Dorothy cheating on their boyfriends kicked off a hugely divisive thing between many readers, and even between the author and some of the readers, and yet… Willis hasn’t done much with it in the story (so far, going on two months later real-time). I’ve never seen a fictional cast of teens show more grace, understanding, and support over two members of the main cast cheating on two others. Subject to change, of course, but so far, so milquetoast.
If this arc pushes Billie and Walky to talk more beyond playful (or genuine) antagonism, I’d enjoy that. Hopefully this all leads to other interesting character interactions that I’m not forseeing yet.
Yeah why are these college kids being so cool about this lol. Dumb impulsive actions are ok when Dorothy and Joyce do it but no one else is allowed to?
Dotty with the flawless victory.
https://bsky.app/profile/damnyouwillis.bsky.social/post/3lxz5meio4k2j
We better star using this template
Well, this is the first time we’ve seen an admission that what’s went down has resulted in hurting someone. It’s done in a rather off hand fashion though, but progress I guess?
I mean Sarah had some choice words and Dorothy has been doing her self-flagellating self-pitying thing about how she treats Walky for a while.
So the blowup here is definitely gonna be Dorothy not being down for poly and wanting a monogamous relationship, huh.
maybe with a second, secret twist: becky DOESN’T respond badly to Joyce and Dorothy being together, but DOES freak out at the prospect of Joyce being poly, which would actually confront her with the premise that Joyce is now romantically rejecting her in an active way; like, “obviously Joyce can’t date me if she’s not a lesbians,” or “obviously Joyce can’t date me because she’s straight with Joe, or “obviously Joyce can’t date me because Dorothy is actually her soulmate and I’m so happy for girls loving girls,” are all reasons Becky can accept, and not break down over. But, maybe knowing that Joyce is poly feels different. There’s no longer a thought-terminating single-sentence explanation she can give herself to stop thinking about the fact that, given actual agency over the decision, Joyce won’t choose her.
i actually didn’t mean to type “lesbians” but at least it’s kinda funny?
honestly this is SUCH a juicy point i hadnt considered.
Yeah this is fun. For the narrative. Not for anyone in it.
Man the problem with wanting to be super openly poly is that people no longer hear “I’m in a relationship” as “I’m unavailable.” Most of the time it would be better if they did.
I am coming around to Dorothy being the villain in all of this.
I been saying, of the entire main cast, Joe is probably who Dorothy likes the least. On top of that, she’s going to get a moment of “wait, you didn’t break up with him? That’s what we were doing though. How come I had to break up with Walky then?”
“I don’t think you appreciate the hold you have to him”.
Before a new girlfriend, Walky needs a new friend.
any friends, really
Walky is such a depressing character Insomuch that he has no deep friendships. Just acquaintances and people who want to fuck him.
He has Billie and Sal which are sibling relationships, he has Booster whom he’s not super close with, Lucy and Amber wanted to and still want to fuck him respectively, and all his other friends are moreso the friends of his ex who cheated on him and her new girlfriend.
Poor guy doesn’t even have Joe like he did in the Walkyverse.
Well, now he and Joe have something to bond over.
well there is booster but idk if they’ve had a genuinine moment together versus booster trying to psychoanalzye him
Walky really can’t have shit without Joyce out doing him lmao.
White woman keeping the black man down. Many such cases.
Walky: Opened the door 🚪 and Dorothy and Joyce are kissing I’m pissed 😤 Can’t have shit in Bloominton Joyce done stole my girlfriend bra 😠
insert the panel where she says ‘feel vaguely turned on’ by her lol
Maaaan, stop teasing me woth my actual Dorothy ship in the middle of all this. :/
Everyone’s allowed to be gay except Jennifer. Also Ruth isn’t allowed to be straight.
The Gospel of Billie, 9.4
Remember folks, it’s only been about an hour or two since these two climbed out of bed and into a lecture. Daisy didn’t recognize them in the picture and they both work for her. There’s a definite chance this gossip only travels as fast as Alice and Raidah.
It’s easily been three or four hours.
They showered, talked to the boys, and then ran to steal the newspapers and confront Daisy. Now I know I wouldn’t take three or four hours to do all that, but I also haven’t zoomed in on anyone’s watches or watched the movement on the sun in the strip, so admittedly I’m just basing my estimate on how long things take to do.
I can’t believe only one person in the comment section said “baka” so far!