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She’s protective of Becky, and to be fair, Sarah’s using similar reasoning: “I know better than you what you need,” in a nutshell. Of course, that’s pretty much the only parallel. Doesn’t seem like Sarah’s planning on acting on it, especially without Joyce.
Actually, I really “like” this exchange, because too many kids (and adults!) these days don’t have this experience, the whole “Don’t say stupid shit that hurts other people’s feelings because it hurts” thing.
But it’s not Sarah’s fault if Joyce has made a bad comparison or if she’s ignoring Sarah’s pretty clear logic. Sarah could have anonymously reported Becky if she really wanted her gone. It is Sarah’s room, too, and this clearly violates school policy.
But the important thing here (for me anyway) is THAT isn’t Sarah’s reason. It’s not that she’s like “get this annoying girl out of my room” or “this is against the rules.” It’s “This girl is in love with you and it would be healthy for her to have some space to deal with the fact that you’re not romantically or sexually in love with her.”
Really, this isn’t about rules, but about how emotionally shitty this must be for Becky, which is pretty generous of Sarah.
And, again, to remind people: she’s been here for two and a half days in their timeline. I had friends visit from out of town for way longer than that in the dorms and it wasn’t against the rules or much of a big deal.
And this is gonna lead her into being MORE withdrawn, because all this does is confirm to Sarah that people are assholes, no matter how hard you try and do the right thing, and its better to just stay by yourself and not get your face kicked in, then try.
Sarah’s definitely more “adult” but she’s not necessarily more “mature”, if that makes sense? She has a hard time allowing other people to see her feelings, which often makes them misinterpret her actions, as they assume a completely different intention behind it.
Mike would rub it in her face the best way possible – by saying “WOW, Joyce, that was a SICK burn. I’m going to make a note of that one, for later. I actually wish I’d come up with that one, myself.”
There’s no better way to make someone feel awful than for Mike to express envy.
At her core, Sara doesn’t understand how much this campus represents to Becky and Joyce. Where else will they have the freedom to do things like borrow Sal’s clothes and interact with people like Billie? Yet they might lose this environment, not for legal reasons but for socioeconomic ones. If Joyce ended up back with her family, she might just be home-colleged or else sent to a far more religious, repressive institution. If Becky ended up back with hers…
This ultimately comes down to the fact that Joyce and Becky are extroverts: their lives improve from being around others and improve much MORE when those others have a variety of things going on. Joyce’s relationship with Ethan alone has given her things she wouldn’t have gotten in a lifetime of her old life.
Sara tries to get it, she really does, but she herself is twitchy about any kind of social interaction. If she could be assured that a high-paying employer would take her on after any sort of college, she’d probably elect for distance learning and live at home to save money. Not that she’s fond of her family either, but at least she probably knows how to make them leave her alone.
Solitude, safety, free from others’ unpredictable problems and their judging eyes. Part of us always expects other people to want the things we want.
Sarah is doing her best to prevent Joyce from getting kicked out of college or at least having to deal with her parents if or when Joyces parents find out about Becky staying in the dorm illegally, shes also correct in what she says about Becky
So yes Joyce should feel really bad about this, Sarah has been hothing but supportive about whats happening yet Joyce treats Sarah as if shes some sort of authority to rail against
Sure, but I think we’re missing each other here. Joyce’s fear for her friend and general high stress have led her to say something she’ll really regret. (One MORE layer of guilt, the idea that her PRESENCE might still hurt Becky, didn’t help either.)
It’s not like Sara’s not trying, but that bias of hers keeps getting in her way. She wants to help but something deep inside tells her “people are better off on their own.”
But I really don’t think that is what Sarah is saying here. That Becky is better off dealing with it by herself.
She’s saying that Becky needs to have a life separate from Joyce. Time to herself(whether actually by herself, or meeting new people) to process and heal from Joyce’s rejection and to move on. Not that they have to take a break. Just that they can’t be all up in each other’s business 24-7. Because, having been in Becky’s position, I can tell you that no matter what you’re doing, how much fun you’re having, or who else you’re with, if your unrequited love you still have feelings for is also participating, it’s going to color every experience you have with bitter rejection and loneliness. A constant reminder of something you want so badly but can’t have.
She’s saying that Becky shouldn’t have to do that. Which is what Becky and Joyce are basically planning to do, and it’s going to make them both miserable.
This. Becky might have been having this fantasy of riding off with Joyce into the sunset on a white, rocket-powered Vespa since she hit puberty.
And then it happens! She puts on her big girl pants and goes for it!
And instead of Joyce diving into her arms in all the passion two heavily religious home schooled girls can think up, Joyce freaks out and shuns her like the fear demon in the back of Becky’s head was whispering she would.
And to top if off, now she’s homeless, without her happy ending, and stuck sharing a twin bed with someone she ALSO now knows is a sexual assault victim who still has touching issues.
Sarah’s idea for her to maybe find a better living arrangement doeesn’t really seem “all must suffer alone” to me.
Maybe she doesn’t “get it”, but that also doesn’t mean that she’s wrong. The dorm room, sharing a bed with someone who doesn’t love her like Becky wants to be loved– sure, that may be better than going back home, but “better than the worst option” that doesn’t mean that it’s the best thing for her, even if it was sustainable.
Joyce is equating finding a better place for Becky with kicking her out on the streets, like that’s the only option: “She lives with me taking care of her (even if that care hurts) or she is utterly abandoned”.
That’s not what Sarah said.
Bottom line – Sarah doesn’t need to walk in Joyce or Becky’s shoes to spot when they’re leaving blisters and to suggest that maybe now is the time to find new ones.
Yeah, she’s just lashing out. But that’s just it. When we lash out at our close friends, friends who have shared with us the places they are most vulnerable, many of us maintain enough self-control and mutual-respect to not aim right for those weak spots. Else we reveal that we do not actually have enough self-control or mutual-respect to remain friends.
Or, at the very least, it proves that we have to be accountable to our friends. Lashing out happens, but it’s also a shitty behavior and people don’t just get passes for shitty behavior.
That’s why it’s so hurtful, when you’re really angry enough, you don’t have any filter, sure you can say things you don’t mean, but you can’t also say things that you don’t normally want to say. Given how Sarah pretty much beats herself up over every flaw she has (even if she seems to do it in a casual way), Sarah is probably more inclined to take it as the latter.
Never got that “You say things you don’t mean when your angry” thing.
You mean it.
You do, or you wouldn’t say it.
You may not WANT to say it, or have said it that particular way, and you’re angry that you brought it up, but that idea that you’re “Oh shit did I say that out loud?!”-ing about? That’s something you at least tangentially believe.
Now, you may tell yourself, “Self, that’s bullshit, it’s not true, get your head back in the game and stop thinking like an ass” But.. still something you gave enough weight as a thought for it to register.
Booze and anger are the keys to our deepest emotional prisons. Some part of us *believes* it, deep down. That little asshole that lives inside us all, that tells us all humans are garbage who stand in our way.
I disagree, when you’re mad enough you’ll say things you don’t mean, things you don’t believe, because you want the other person to hurt and you know what you said will hurt them. That’s what Joyce did here, her anger topped out, she had no responses to anything Sarah had to say so she aimed a comment straight at the one place she knew Sarah would be most vulnerable, the one place she knew it would hurt.
Some part of her wonders if Sarah did it for that reason. The rational part of her mind pushes it out as not true, but there *is* a doubt planted.
I’ve been mad enough to get to this point. I’ve been “I want to see the light die in your eyes” angry. I didn’t need to pull things I knew were lies, because that’s not how we really function.
Irrational brain wanted to hurt something. That something was the other person, and Irrational brain knew how to do that.
The rational part of your brain kicks in later and smothers the doubt with rationalizations, but that doesn’t mean some part of us doesn’t believe it.
I like my friend. Rationally, I know she didn’t intend for a thing to happen the way it did. But there is always a smidgen of doubt as to if it was intentional or not, and if it was intentional, *boy* would it hurt if I smacked that doubt in her face.
Rational me wouldn’t dream of doing that, because the chance is minimal and she’s shown to not be that type of person, but rational brain’s off doing body shots with my last good nerve, so it’s monkey brain time!
Rationalizing away the belief doesn’t mean it’s not still inside your head.
I don’t think that’s it at all. It hurts especially because Joyce is the one person Sarah has let in, emotionally, this year, and Joyce just showed her that people will always misconstrue her motivations and attack her for the ways she expresses her caring.
Warning… There’s a 12 year long archive and…well, the early stuff isn’t really…good. (A lot of the after-the-fact commentary is Dan ‘WTF?’ing at his past self.) The panel I’ve used is from Squirrel Prophet, the most recent complete arc.
The early EGS stuff is pretty rough, but I’d still put it on par with Roomies or the start of Schlock Mercenary. The later work is much more polished, but can be a little hard to understand if you haven’t read all the way through. Pretty large cast, and many of the characters (especially Elliot, Grace, and Tedd) change between multiple forms regularly.
I definitely wouldn’t say justified. And I’m not sure that’s where we’re going right now. I feel if Sarah was angry, she might consider it. But she seems more devasted really. I have no clue on what her next action will be.
Though this might really drive Sarah back into her shell. This is a vastly different reaction to when Billie leveled a similar accusation at her. If even Joyce lashes out at her when she feels she’s trying to do the right thing, it’s definitely going to discourage her from getting involved in the affairs of others.
No, I think this is something Joyce has to come to see on her own. That she isn’t actually helping Becky just keeping her in a sort of limbo state, rather than establishing a new life for herself.
If she ratted them out she becomes the villain and Joyce won’t learn anything.
Wow seriously Joyce? Sarah is the only one in the room right now trying to genuinely help Becky. You did the inital helping great but now Becky is just in a holding pattern. Hell try and get her into the college and on fin aid so she can get her own dorm room.
Sarah isn’t saying “kick her to the streets” she is saying “Find her a better long term solution”
Honestly I kind of want to give them both a talking-to. Or at any rate tell Joyce that she cannot use “it’s the truth” as an excuse to say rotten things or engage in emotional blackmail(setting aside Becky’s living situation since that requires a qualified professional or someone with a bigger social and support network than Joyce has) and tell Sarah that she cannot keep jumping in and trying to fix other people’s problems for them(especially when you are not privy to all relevant information).
I meant on the emotional toll part, not the “if someone narcs there is nothing whatsoever we can do to protect Becky so let’s get a plan B started (shelter, spare bed at queer-friendly Episcopal chaplaincy, friend-of-a-friend who has a spare bedroom, whatever)” part.
(Joyce’s problem meanwhile besides utter lack of a filter is that she is too wrapped up in protecting Becky to realize that she needs an income, liquid cash and housing that is under her direct control. I understand why she doesn’t realize this since neither her nor Becky have even lived away from home for more than a few weeks but it really does not help.)
It’s a little more than that. If Becky gets found out, it’s not just going to come back on Joyce, Sarah could get kicked out of school too.
And yet, despite that, Sarah’s more concerned with the fact that Becky’s feelings for Joyce have to be hurting her and that the forced proximity is making it worse.
But beyond that, Joyce is not some random stranger; not pointing out to someone that’s genuinely a friend that they’re doing something pretty horrible is not helping them out. It’s enabling shitty behavior. Joyce is lashing out because she doesn’t want to accept the reality of the situation, but she’s going to have to one way or another; she is actually hurting Becky with her actions.
What information about Becky does Sarah not have? Sarah is, in this instance, looking out for all three of them.
And Becky living there is also Sarah’s problem. Not just in logistics, but also in who gets blamed if the school finds out. Even ignoring the risk Sarah is taking on, if Becky starts on a downward spiral(easily could happen as she just lost her entire support network and faced Joyce’s rejection less than a week later), she’ll probably take Joyce with her. And Sarah, too, because Sarah is obviously pretty invested in her friendship with Joyce.
And why would Marcie want to do that even temporarily? Might not even be possible. One of my dorms had a solo-in-a-double situation going on – the girl had medical issues that required a full-blown freezer full of meds and some other equipment that took up almost as much room as the bed and desk it replaced.
Marcie doesn’t live in the dorms.
(Though we know nothing about her living situation besides the fact that she’s not a student. I feel from what we’ve seen of Billie and Sal’s room that she’s not crashing there.)
I was, but the cast page says Carla’s got a single. Which is weird, because I would have sworn somebody had a double room all to themselves. Must be my imagination.
It would, but it is quite unlikely this would happen;
– Sal and Joyce aren’t -that- close
– Joyce doesn’t even know Marcie (as far as I recall)
– Sal and Marcie weren’t on the best terms last I remember
I know plot-wise it would take a long time to even set up (Joyce would have to meet Marcie, the topic would have to come up, Becky would be there somehow), but I see it as a more immediate solution than anything else I can think of.
Not really. All that -really- needs to happen is that Sal needs to hear about Becky’s situation and suggest that she knows somebody who has their own place.
The immediate solution is for Becky to go check into the local homeless shelter and start looking for work. She’s young, healthy, and has no drug or drinking problems. With help from the staff it shouldn’t take more than a month for her to find an entry-level job and cheap housing, probably with other “graduates” from the same shelter. Might be less – I’m an old man with a lousy skill set and some mental health issues and I was only in for two weeks before I found a “situation” that let me get out.
Shelters really kind of suck and no one wants to stay in one long, but they’ll help get you back on your feet if you’re willing to work with them.
There is no world in which I’d let a friend move into a homeless shelter unless there were literally no other options, especially not a young, inexperienced 18 year old moving into an adult shelter. I say this as someone who worked in a shelter for youth aged 13-18 and who worked with transitioning youth 18-21 – those shelters are usually VERY dangerous for younger adults and Becky has none of the street skills to succeed there.
Yeah, I think this one was on Bad Choice Joyce.
Sarah was actually making a reasonable and empathetic point, which Joyce misconstrued as a leadup to “–and so let’s kick her out” instead of “–and so let’s help her find an independent place where she can be safe and happy,” or wherever Sarah might have gone with it.
Quite possible. Has me wondering how much trouble she’ll have requesting a new room assignment. Can’t think of anyone in the cast that’s likely to just swap with her offhand (well, maybe Dorothy?) but there are always openings somewhere on campus.
I think its because she got Dana kicked out not because she cared about her health, but because she didn’t want to risk her scholarship. I don’t know how true this is but it’s what I think the complaint is.
She was watching her CORRODE right in front of her, yes part of the reason was that her scholarship was tanking, but Dana was being a menace to both herself AND Sarah, if Sarah hadn’t intervened Dana would have DIED.
And, as I recall, Sarah didn’t get her kicked out of school.
Sarah contacted Dana’s family, who took her out of school for her own well being. That’s an entirely different situation. One that had the best chance for Dana to get the help she needed, as Dana clearly wasn’t letting anyone else help her.
Mendo wasn’t talking about the Dana situation, I don’t think, tho. I think he was saying she’s right about -Becky- for the wrong reasons, but I don’t think that’s true at all. Nothing she’s said has implied that she’s saying any of this for selfish reasons. She’s right that Joyce needs to let Becky have her own space, she’s right about -why-, she’s right that Becky needs a better long term living situaiton, and she’s right about why on that, as well.
Sarah has shown repeatedly that she has trouble telling the difference between “maturity” and “looking out for number one”. Dana might have been on-track to get herself killed, but Sarah only intervened because Dana was in her way. Speaking as someone who’s dealt with addiction, myself, going behind someone’s back and getting other people to take over their lives is NOT the way to help someone. People need to *want* to fix themselves, and since Dana clearly didn’t, what Sarah did can’t really be classified as a good deed, since she probably only made the underlying need for chemical escape worse…
Saying “Oh, well, it doesn’t count because Sarah only did it for herself.” doesn’t really hold water, because it is clear that Sarah varnishes her genuine emotions with layers of snark and self-interest to distance herself from them.
NO ONE was helping Dana at the time. Sarah clearly lacks the ability to discuss emotional issues, and Dana was actively hiding her problems from her friends. “She was getting better!” is what Raidah said. When, in fact, she clearly wasn’t.
We also don’t actually know the terms under which Dana left school. It could be Dana and her dad had a long talk and decided to leave. We know that Sarah called her dad, and then Dana left. Hell, it could be that Dana and her father were very close and he would have normally intervened by this time, but was distracted by his own grief. Sarah’s call was a wake up to him that he still had a daughter to take care of, even if she is technically an adult. At the very least, Dana is now with someone who can get her help if she wants it.
Also keep in mind that this would have happened over a very short period of time. Not even two months, because it was just after midterms that Sarah called Dana’s dad. Dana was falling far and very fast.
I’m inclined to suspect something closer to pulling her out on the spot; if she decided to leave after talking to her dad I’d have expected a few last days on campus to sort through leave of absence paperwork, notify professors, say goodbye to friends, and clean up loose ends. Also from a narrative standpoint, “she seemed like she was doing better and all of a sudden Daddy pulled out of school on no notice” explains her friend’s reaction better than “she decided to go home because she was having a much rougher time than we thought she was” does.
But she wasn’t admitting to her friends that she was having a problem. Her friends thought she was getting better, but Sarah lives with her. She can’t hide how bad it is from Sarah like she can from her non-roommates. They don’t hear her sobbing every night. They don’ t know she smokes weed constantly. Saying “I’m dropping out because I can’t deal with this anymore.” is an admission that there is a problem. From the confrontation between Raidah and Sarah at the time, Dana either didn’t want try to say goodbye. (possibly wasn’t allowed to, but the other two seem more likely to me, in the circumstances)
I also got the impression from Raidah that, though she has talked with Dana, it’s not very often or very recently. Dana was no doubt angry that she got pulled out of school and vented to Raidah about it. (You’re right Dana probably didn’t leave by choice.) But I feel like if Dana had said something specific about being mad at Sarah, Raidah would have said so. She just said that, last time she checked on her, Dana wasn’t happy. The fact that she actually told Raidah that, when before she was isolating herself and pretending nothing was wrong, indicates at least some improvement for Dana.
If Sarah was motivated by selfishness, she would have just reported Dana for drugs and gotten her kicked out. Which, I might add, would have been entirely within her right, as both of them could be kicked out of school if Dana got caught with it in their room.
@gordon-I know she wasn’t getting better. That’s the point I was going for-her friends seemed like they were blindsided by her getting pulled out because they had no way of knowing how bad she was and getting pulled out on short notice seemed more consistent with that lack of knowledge. Since they unlike us are not omniscient.
Even if Sarah’s only motivation was looking out for herself (and if it was, she would have notified the university and had Dana actually kicked out), I disagree that that’s a wrong reason. Looking out for yourself is not some kind of inherently bad act.
True. Especially given the fact that Sarah’s demands were not excessive… she wasn’t demanding things she was not entitled to. But nobody deserves to have a disruptive room mate.
Sarah’s afraid of being caught up in things she isn’t equipped to handle. I’ve been there, it isn’t fun.
Joyce is afraid of not being there for a friend who has nothing else. I’ve also been there.
On a fundamental level, they’re worried about the exact same thing, just from two different directions. Neither is entirely right or entirely wrong. Of course arguing is so much easier than actually working things out and figuring out what needs to be done.
Right. And what 18 year old is prepared to deal with a friend who is homeless and completely without support? Very few. They’re all cobbling together what they know of the world to deal with this and (I remind again) it’s been less than THREE DAYS since she’s been there and basically a day and a half since they found out what was up.
I feel like I am legitimately missing something. Where is Sarah wrong in this instance? Joyce is wrong, because Sarah at no point suggested that they throw Becky out. She made so many leaps to that conclusion that I’m pretty sure it qualifies as a superpower and when Sarah tried to defend herself against that accusation Joyce lashed out with the most hurtful thing she could think of.
“Well, okay, a little sarcasm.” So what she meant can probably be construed as saying that Becky should get out of the current living situation but by moving into a better one not just by giving her the boot.
Sheesh though, I really do feel for Sarah. Despite her cynicism and grumpiness, she did open up to Joyce about something sensitive, and she clearly cares about her; (yeah I know she made jokes about her behind her back but she hella regretted it, plus there was that whole ‘Old Testament God’ final form she took at the party) and this ends up being the result. We’ve seen her get frustrated before, but damn if Willis didn’t perfectly depict her getting shot right in the heart. Not a hint of anger in that 4th panel whatsoever.
Everyone makes mistakes, but sometimes people make biiiiiig mistakes. Even if Joyce didn’t mean it, she still sure as hell said it boldly and firmly. I have a feeling that this’ll definitely draw a line between the two of ’em for a while…
Wow. Joyce has said a lot of stupid things before in her ignorance, but I don’t think she’s ever been so willfully cruel.
After Sarah trusted you with the details of her situation with Dana and her insecurities about how she handled the situation, you, with laser guided precision, throw it back in her face to win a fight?!
If it were me, I wouldn’t tell Joyce anything about my past ever again. In fact, I wouldn’t blame Sarah for never wanting to speak with Joyce after that.
She wasn’t thinking clearly, for a one moment she let all the stress and rage boil up till she exploded and lash out at Sarah by going into personal shit then instantly regret it.
Still though should have thought about if that was called for or not before she did it which it wasn’t, Damn that was cold blooded.
Yeah, that’s a really bad thing, like mega bad. When you’re a personality that is already on a path to repressing things and alienating others out of issues regarding trust, someone taking a sore point like this and just nuking it from orbit like this is one of those things that makes it hard to ever open up again. And the worst part is that you can see exactly how she takes it in the last panel. Not angry, not sad, just completely disappeared inside of herself. That’s an emotional retreat and it may be a while before Sarah trusts her again emotionally.
It is wholly possible that Joyce will never regain the trust she’s abused here. When you share one of your deepest insecurities with someone and they weaponize that knowledge in an argument it can destroy your faith in them pretty absolutely.
This isn’t Joyce being willfully and intentionally cruel. This strikes me as a purely emotional response with very little thought behind it. This is what Joyce looks like when she lashes out emotionally, because she is hurting, scared, and deeply stressed out. Joyce really needs help.
Of course that doesn’t make it right, and its something she’s going to have to really beg forgiveness for. (I think that is already something she realizes from the last panel.) Friends do forgive each other though, so I think they’ll work it out. But Sarah is going to be very prickly for a while I’d imagine.
Let’s not forget that, willingly or not, Joyce is Sarah’s only friend. Raidah hates her, Jacob’s not speaking to her since she drove him away. Joyce is literally the only person Sarah opens up occasionally to.
Sarah needs more friends, which is another problem that needs to be addressed down the line. Note how she and Dorothy had the same initial problem (they really need to study), but Dorothy handled the social aspect of her gameplan much better.
Yeah, that is a pretty big issue for Sarah, which probably stems from her low self esteem and is self-perpetuating. (She hates herself, so obviously people must hate her, too. > She avoids people. > Does not gain coping mechanisms or social skills that help her deal with people. > Finds it difficult to relate to or deal with people. > Avoids people.> Repeat the last two steps ad nauseam)
I don’t think that’s a key element here, though. Sarah has been pretty competent, clear and accommodating in her interactions with Joyce and Becky.
I don’t get what you mean by it not being “willfully and intentionally cruel”. She chose to say something that she knew would hurt Sarah. That was her intent, that was her will– maybe she regretted it after, but that doesn’t mean she didn’t do it intentionally.
Or maybe by “willfully and intentionally cruel” what you mean is “because she gets joy out of seeing another person in pain”, and yeah, she didn’t do it for that reason, or to meangirl her way to the top or whatever. She did it because she felt threatened by what Sarah was saying, she didn’t want to have to deal with it, so she lashed out to hurt Sarah and make her retreat. She said the thing that she knew would hurt, because she knew it would hurt.
I didn’t mean Joyce did it out of some meangirl desire to cause suffering. But she chose a very personal insult because she knew it would hurt, because she didn’t think or care how much it would hurt so long as Sarah backed off.
It’s a contrast to Joyce’s argument with Roz regarding her promiscuity. Joyce said some terrible things, things that hit a nerve with Roz judging by her strong reaction, but Joyce didn’t say them because she wanted to hurt Roz so much as because she was being stupid and self-righteous.
You’re right, it is a difference of intent and effect. Imo, intent does matter alot less than effect, but I don’t think that makes intent meaningless.
This is a massive abuse of the trust Sarah had put in Joyce. She opened up about a profound insecurity that gnaws at her to this day and Joyce used that knowledge as a weapon because she knew how much it haunted her. It is a completely inexcusable way to treat someone you care about no matter how angry or stressed out you are. It is emotional abuse.
Daaaaaaaaamn son. Joyce 1, Sarah 0. Girl has big brass cajones that clank when she walks.
However, that was completely uncalled for. While the situations are kind of sort of maybe similar, that was a shitty thing to say. Sarah definitely has well meaning misguided thinking. She’s well meaning when she wants Becky to have a healthy environment, but she doesn’t consider what would actually happen if they kicked her out. She wants her to find a better place, but isn’t offering solutions.
Honestly I think this is going to cause a HUGE rift in Sarah and Joyce’s relationship. I think that there is regret on Sarah’s side for what she did. Instead of bringing this to the attention of the RA who would point her to resources, she straight up kicked her out.
There are resources for Becky however, and hopefully they can take advantage of them.
Sarah didn’t really have a chance to offer solutions did she, she stated what the issue, what she wants for Becky and then got blind-sided by a vicious hit by Joyce which Sarah could have easily countered by bringing up saving from sexual assault but didn’t (Sarahs got class) so no real chance to bring up what solutions which Joyce wouldn’t be in the mood to listen to anyway
Sarah did that in a way that had to rev Joyce up and then Joyce went critical not because Sarah wants to “get rid of” Becky, because at some level she knows or suspects that Sarah is right and fears that she is hurting Becky and doesnt know what to do–and so she stuck that emo knife in Sarahs most vulnerable place, deliberately to hurt her, which she knew it would. VERY bad show; very sad.
Given the situation, Sarah did the one thing that was in her power to do.
She told people who cared and were better equipped to handle Dana’s problems.
Dana was in a downward spiral that only Sarah was seeing, as Dana put on a front for her other friends and presumably her family. Dinah said she was getting better, but Sarah knew it was getting worse. Yes, she could have told the school, but she didn’t. She contacted Dana’s dad, who took Dana out of school. Hopefully, he got her the help she needed. Help she was unwilling or unable to get by herself.
Yes, getting Dana out of there did benefit her academically, but it was the best thing for Dana.
Sarah comes off a lot more selfish than she actually is because she doesn’t have the social skills to properly express herself.
Even if Sarah’s whole reason for contacting Dana’s father was because she was threatening her scholarship it would still be the right reason. Taking care of yourself is not a bad reason to do something especially when that something is removing an obviously toxic influence.
Yes, I believe that road has been well traveled at this point. And I still intend to sue you… just as soon as that bounty hunter I hired manages to locate and drag you back to the courthouse.
It’s sad how Joyce still thinks Sarah hates her and hates everyone. Yet Sarah has done nothing to justify that. Being introverted and socially awkward does not mean you hate people.
When it comes down to it, if Joyce had to chose between Becky and Sarah…..
I’d like to remind people, since the pace of the strip often makes people lose perspective on this, that all of this is happening in a very short amount of time. This isn’t a drawn out conversation, it’s an argument. It does not excuse Joyce, but this is also not a calculated jab, it’s a kneejerk reaction because Joyce is being defensive of her friend. Joyce loves Sarah, but Becky has been her immediate concern and she’s been very protective of her.
Sarah did not mean it is an attack, and while that’s nice and all, that’s not how it came across to Joyce, and it’s not how actual arguments tend to go, especially on very sore subjects. Feelings get hurt.
Sarah simply explained that it was best for Becky and Joyce to not always be around each other, and Joyce immediately jumped to “Fine, let’s just kick her out.” Completely ignoring the fact that Sarah didn’t even begin to suggest that. Joyce flips out, and Sarah calmly explained that, the best thing for Becky would be to find a better place to live. Sarah is talking long term. And given that up to now, she’s been very concerned with Joyce’s well-being, you can’t claim that her motives are selfish.
In fact, given how this whole Becky thing has played out, Sarah has been very calm and accommodating, considering how Joyce invited a literal stranger(to Sarah) to live in their tiny shared living space for an unlimited amount of time without consulting her. Something that could easily get both of them kicked out of the dorm.
Joyce unfairly lashed out at Sarah in the most hurtful way possible. This isn’t a “everyone shares some of the blame” situation. This is all on Joyce.
I really didn’t see Sarah arguing in the direction of throwing Becky out like Joyce assumed, more just being respectful of Becky’s need for autonomy.
So yeah, in Sarah’s experience, she has accepted a less than ideal (for her) situation and has really tried to rise above herself and do right by her “little sister” and give really good advice and Joyce has now flipped out on her over a complete misinterpretation and hit her in the one place that you just don’t hit.
Joyce completely fucked the pooch here and the worst part is that it probably won’t fall back on Joyce or Becky. This is just hitting the button you don’t hit with Sarah and Sarah is going to carry that.
Joyce is gonna regret this one. And, no, not because Sarah’s going to tell on them. Because she just lost the sister/friend who *literally* went to bat for her.
I don’t know Joyce did a pretty great job of validating all of Sarah’s insecurity and mistrust about others as well as her own self loathing. It would be entirely realistic and understandable if this killed their friendship.
Is there a possible reason why Joyce flipped out irrationally like that?
This may just be another sign that she’s at the end of her rope and not able to cope. These signs have been steadily coming, but with the more recent plot lines it has been more obvious just how badly Joyce is handling things.
Because Joyce’s method of dealing with everything is to bottle it up until she thinks she can safely ignore it. It’s very clear, I think, from how she and Becky are handling this whole situation that they are both content to bury their heads in the sand and pretend that everything is going to be just fine the way it is.
Sarah isn’t letting her do that here, and she has no other method of coping.
I didn’t say Sarah shared blame. I said that Joyce was on the defensive, because she was. Arguments are about practically everything BUT logic. All of the conflicts that have occurred in this comic, how many of them would have been avoided if it was easy as “Well, here’s what they intended versus here is how it felt”. Joyce got mother bear on her, and regretted it instantly.
Eh, I was more taking issue with the word argument. An argument has two viewpoints that are in conflict. You weren’t having an argument with the bear when it mauled you. The tornado didn’t have an argument with your house when it turned it into a spinning cloud of debris.
Joyce flipped her shit and lashed out in the most painful way she could think of when all Sarah did was say that the current situation is not good for Becky in the long term.
Mother bear my fuzzy ass, she used Sarah as a vent to get over her stress about the last three days.
“Oh my best friend is gay and wants to feel me up! Oh my boyfriend is also gay and DOESN’T want to feel me up! And I’ve been an asshole to him without realizing it! Oh good, my best friend who tried to feel me up now knows about my sexual assault, and we’re sharing a twin bed now! Ahahahaha… just keep smiling Joyce.. just keep smiling!”
And then Sarah, who has a track record of not getting involved with people’s garbage, tries to help her with her garbage, Joyce flips her shit and says the ONE THING that will hurt Sarah more then anything else.
Joyce doesn’t mean to hurt Becky like this, of course. And evidently isn’t even aware of that fact- it looks like everything’s hunky-dory because they’re still friends and went through a situation that could’ve broke weaker friendships.
But staying in close proximity of an unrequited love is a strain in any situation. And, as someone that’s been there multiple times– to be frank, it fucking hurts.
Is anyone here thinking Sarah is in the wrong? Because Becky being in Joyce’s bed isn’t emotionally healthy–but she needs to get over her crush and move on. Also, while not emotionally healthy, there’s also PHYSICALLY healthy which Becky needs to be too as she gets into her new life. Sarah, by contrast, constantly prefers to drive people away who make her life too complex.
I think Sarah’s right in the sense that when she says that Becky sharing a bed with Joyce is emotionally harmful to Becky. The best way to get over a crush is to spend some time apart. And Becky doesn’t have that opportunity in the current situation. I think Sarah is trying to keep both Joyce and Becky’s best interests at heart. But her history of keeping people out emotionally is making her actions seem more selfish to others.
Throwing Becky out onto the street isn’t physically or emotionally healthy, no. But, that’s not what Sarah was suggesting. Best I could tell, she was suggesting that Joyce help Becky find a better housing solution. Motives may be partly selfish (of course she doesn’t want to face repercussions for harboring Becky in the dorm), but I think her solution was taking into account what will be good for Becky, too.
She’s also taking into account what will be good for Joyce as well. Joyce is in just as much trouble, if not more, if Becky finds out.
I’m actually imagining Becky’s going to be crushed when she finds out what happened. Once again, Joyce is chopping the ropes of the bridges, and it’s because of her. Becky is going to feel like she’s a poisonous influence in Joyce’s life, which is going to make her try to stay away, despite what Joyce tells her. And that is going to lead to guilt and stress building up in Joyce.
I highly doubt it. Between the flashbacks and Sarah’s explanations, her story has been told and her contribution to this ball of confusion has been made.
Brain: Okay, sorry everyone, I had to step out. Nature called and all that. Anyway, as far as Mouth’s recent proposal, I’m going to go ahead and nix that suggestion. Frankly, it would be the most insensitive, soul-crushing, stupid thing we could say to Sarah. And on top of that, its blatantly untrue and unfair, since she’s essentially been putting up with keeping Becky here this entire time despite what a huge imposition it is on her living situation. Worst case scenario, this could provoke her into doing the very thing we are accusing her of wanting! So, no, definitely don’t do that.
Brain: That’s IT, Mouth! You’re no longer second-in-command here. Now, who else can I choose…
Hands?
Hands: YESS!! TIME TO DRAW MORE DONGS!!!
Brain: Err, maybe not… Loins?
Loins: HEEHEEHEee mustn’t touch mustn’t touch hehheehheeee!!!
Brain: DEFINITELY NOT. Okay, Stomach, guess that leaves you.
Stomach: Sweet! Time for tacos and soft-serve! As long as the tacos are separated into component parts, and eaten separately.
Brain: Eh, at least HE’s not mad with repressed PSL. Okay, time to go watch more Dexter and Monkey Master!
I like how in the old days the stomach was where the love was, not the heart. Damned heart.. you pump the blood and shut your mouth.. stomach’s all about the hunger for cupcakes and dongs..
Ooh, I like how the panels get tighter as Joyce and Sarah get more in each other’s faces. Maybe this is pretty basic layout stuff and I just never really noticed because I don’t read a lot of comics, either way it’s a nice touch.
Panel 4 is just painful. It’s rare for us to see Sarah in a not-snappy or stern mood, her jaw is always very set. Here she’s gone slackjawed, it makes her face rounder, and it feels almost unnatural. A++ visual language informing character right here.
Panel 5 is similar in those regards for Joyce, which is appropriate since it is her reaction to panel 4. One doesn’t need to read the dialog bubbles to know what is happening there.
The main issue here is that Joyce has been going through some hard shit and this is all happening in a month. Let’s see here, She almost gets date raped, she has to deal with being in love with a gay guy who can never love her back, oh and her best friend is homeless and hiding from her dickbag of a father! This has all happened in a month. This is made even worse by the fact that Joyce doesn’t allow herself to get angry or sad. Having your best friend hide in your dorm room, when you know that you can’t always protect her is scary and depressing. If anyone else was in the room she would have lashed out at them. Joyce is just scared and she’s lashing out like a scared animal lashes out at the people trying to protect it.
That best friend also declared she was in love with her out of the blue, and Joyce has been guilt tripping herself over her own sexual fantasies about Ethan, and she’s started lying to her parents. So even more pressure.
Ah c’mon guys, Joyce lashed out but she doesn’t need all this hate for it. She’s frustrated right now and been through a lot, and yeah this was a dick thing to say but you can see she instantly regrets it and apologises. I would get the WOW JOYCE if she said this on purpose, but it’s clearly a stressed out slip up. I’m feeling for Sarah because this hurts, but we’ve all been there.
Regret and apologize doesn’t make the pain go away. Yes Joyce had been through a lot, her action were understandable but it’s not make it justifiable. I hate using strawman fallacy, but meh, if someone stabbed you, instantly apologize, and bring you to the hospital, even though you come out health, the emotional fear and resentment still linger, especially if the someone who stabbed you is the one you trust and cared for.
Sarah had been nothing but a caring and considerate individual for Joyce. She got Joyce out of the rape at the party scene, she accommodating enough for the second Dinah (aka Becky) which I remind you, had threatened her scholarship (and if you don’t fully realize the extent of the scholarship’s importance, it secured you a degree that protecting you from spending the rest of your future to being a fast-food burger flipper). So Sarah had take a great personal risk to help Becky.
Heck in the previous strip, she only initiate the conversation to made Joyce realize that human emotion were indicated in the most subtle way, and sometimes good intention doesn’t meant you’d get a good result.
As far as I concern Sarah try to diffuse the situation when Joyce exploding, which she response by stabbing her in the place you should never ever ever stab. Sarah convey her innermost feeling and trouble to Joyce when she told her about Dinah, and I don’t know about you, but I humbly thought that deserve respect and consideration.
Yes Sarah were a bit sarcastic, however from the content of her conversation she concerned for Becky and Joyce.
Joyce could stop her outburst before that happen, but no, she more cared to relieve her anger than considering her “supposed” best friend feeling.
Hate? I see very little hate here. A lot of people don’t like what Joyce just said, for obvious reasons, but expressing that displeasure does not equal hate.
I always love how when characters do things like this they’re always instantly the worst. Because y’know nobody ever says something they don’t mean or regret in an argument.
She pretty much did the absolute worst thing she could do in this situation. She dredged up a secret that Sarah trusted her enough to share with her even though it was a source of deep-seated insecurity and self-doubt and she used it as a weapon against her. It was a horrible, underhanded thing to do to someone you care about and it’s a profound abuse of the trust that gave you the knowledge you used to hurt them in the first place. It doesn’t matter if she didn’t mean it (which isn’t even an absolution because the alternative to believing it is that she just wanted to hurt Sarah as badly as possible) you don’t fucking do that to your friends.
uh yeah Sarahs skin is about as thick as toilet paper. Its not all that hard to upset her. If you hide from people and push anyone who tries to be nice to you away, your skin is not thick. I fact i would say that Joyce has a thicker skin. Dealing with everything she has gone through while still trying to be nice to everyone. Point is the strip shouldn’t be called dumbing of age, it should be called: Go to a Therapist!
She’s also really unwilling to examine the way her relationship with Becky has changed, and that’s helping drive her turmoil. It was Sarah pointing out that Becky’s probably hurting from mere proximity that set her off in the first place.
Sarah’s roommate’s damaging grief spiral and illegal drug use was preventing Sarah from studying or sleeping in her own room. Even if Sarah didn’t give a damn about Dana–and she did, or she would have notified the university and not Dana’s dad–she’s not required to sacrifice herself rather than “snitch”.
Dana was on a drug fueled binge that was probably going to lead to her death. Sarah did the right thing, even if everyone assumes she was doing it for selfish reasons.
If she was “snitch” she’d have turned Dana in the first day in the dorm. Not like the girl was ever subtle about her drug habit, and it only got worse after her mother died.
If by snitch you mean a rational human being who puts people’s actual well being ahead of some vague and baseless sense of solidarity against authority then yeah I guess she’s a snitch :\
We know Sarah really cares about Joyce, so I guess now we get to find out just how deep that care and concern goes and how long it takes Sarah to realize that this was something tossed out in the heat of the moment and that Joyce really *didn’t* mean it.
Whoa. This seems…out of character for Joyce, and frankly doesn’t make sense in the context of the narrative; Joyce knows that Sarah didn’t just want Dana kicked to the curb, so it doesn’t make sense to me that she would say something like this referring to the situation with Becky.
Granted, people are prone to saying things in anger that don’t necessarily make sense; making sense when you’re angry just gets in the way.
I wouldn’t say it’s out of character. Joyce is highly stressed, and is forced to deal with a situation that really doesn’t have a simple solution. I think she’s misinterpreting things that Sarah is saying. Joyce doesn’t handle nuanced criticism that well, so she is really interpreting Sarah’s statements as “Let’s kick Becky out ASAP”. It’s understandable that she would snap. (Though not justifiable I would stress. Certainly not by saying what she said)
Notice how Joyce isn’t giving answers to any of Sarah’s statements. She followed a sudden train of paranoia (Sarah wants to kick Becky out) all the way to the end of the track.
Prediction: Reality will quickly swing right back at Joyce in a way that she couldn’t possibly put the blame on Sarah. At the party, Becky will accidentally cross a physical or emotional boundary or will say something to Joyce or someone else to instantly make Joyce sadly and finally realize how absolutely correct Sarah is about all of this.
I thought the last strip was bad enough with Joyce once again thinking Sarah hates her, but this is just too much.
Sarah’s my favourite forever and every emotional moment that slips through her armour hits twice as hard. I hope she doesn’t decide to push Joyce away after that angry outburst.
At the same time, I do think pressing on kicking out Becky was a sore spot, even if she has good intentions for doing so.
Oh, man. After an attack like that, Sarah is going to burn the drawbridge and wall herself up inside her mental castle. That’s how she deals with pain, by walling off the cause. When Jacob poked at her weak points, she walled him off. Now, she’ll do the same with Joyce. Someone’s gonna need an emotional Grond to get through to her.
Hilarious. School shootings are such a hoot, let me tell you. One day you have a normal school day go into lockdown for hours, the next you can’t even stand being on campus.
No, Joyce, if Sarah REALLY wanted to get rid of Becky she’d rat her out to the school administration which, as a bonus, would get rid of you, too.
I don’t understand why so many people are guilting Sarah for getting rid of Dana, even if they DO believe she just did it to stop Dana from ruining her life. Because you know what you call someone who ruins your life through careless actions? Toxic, and neither Sarah nor anyone should have to deal with that sort of people.
I agree. Sarah told Raidah how depressed and drug-dependent Dana was getting, and asked if maybe Dana should talk to someone, I assume meaning a therapist. But since Dana always tried to pretend she was ok when she was with Raidah & company, Raidah just said that Dana seemed ok and not to worry. So at that point, there wasn’t much Sarah could do. If she talked to an RA, she’d be ratting her out and possibly the authorities might have got involved and Dana would have got kicked out. Involving her dad meant bypassing all that–Dana still got taken out of school, but she wasn’t kicked out and presumably could even come back when she got well.
288 comments, and apparently nobody’s noticed that Joyce is still freaked out by the idea of Becky being IN LOVE WITH HER, which Sarah oh-so-helpfully made impossible for Joyce to tuck back in the “la la la not listening” part of her head.
That’s still Joyce + Sarah’s room in that panel. Seeing as there’s a poster that has crosses of some sort on it. There’s also a picture of what looks like a younger version of Mr. and Mrs. Brown on the wall too.
Given that Sarah just seriously acceded to Joyce’s sarcastic suggestion that they kick Becky out in yesterday’s strip, I’m not surprised Joyce is pissed. She’s doing the best she can and now it’s somehow hurting the person she’s trying to help, and Sarah’s proposed solution is…what?
I bet Joyce has been thinking about that story about Dana ever since she found out Becky’s dad was after her.
Except she didn’t, she was being sarcastic. All she was acceding to was the “Becky should not keep living here long term” part with sarcasm reserved for the kicking her out on the street part.
I have to say, I’m kinda like Sarah in a way. And a comment like this, from the ONE person who I seemed to have any sort of friendship bond with? This would absolutely ruin me. Like, straight up done.
That was a killing blow, and one I’m really, really shocked to see Joyce go for. If she has a friend in Sarah after this, it would be a long time building up that bridge again.
Sh….
So you didn’t want to hear what Sarah said because it hurt so much, gripped the next best thing to throw at her … and you knew the seconds the words left your mouth that you totally fucked up there.
Too late. Now what?
I think people are missing something here. They think since Sarah is right, it’s okay to be an asshole. And Sarah’s basically been a gigantic sarcastic asshole to Joyce from the very start. Was she right about what she said? Probably. But Joyce, while sheltered, knew that Sarah didn’t like her, and constantly put up with her biting sarcasm and eventually that will wear a person down no matter how nice they try to be. So yeah, Joyce, that was low. But god knows that Sarah has not been making it easy for Joyce.
Why do you think Sarah doesn’t like Joyce? I think it’s been made pretty clear that Sarah, despite her prickliness and her unwillingness to let her emotions show, cares very deeply for Joyce, her “little sis” as Sarah herself has said.
I was confused at first because I read “Dina”, and I couldn’t think what Joyce was talking about. You kinda have to go way back to remember who Dana was…
I was panicked that my 7-year-old might freak out during the face melting scene in Indiana Jones but she said "I guess he shouldn't have opened that" as seriously as possible and I've been crying laughing for 10 minutes
look i have a lot to say about this beetle bailey strip okay
anyway, nobody's hands reach their own crotches while their arms are fully extended, so plato only has to bend his elbows like 10 degrees to put his hands on his hips
not a lot to say about this mary worth other than i was curious how you make vegan lasagna and i looked it up and received psychic damage from three-to-four different revulsions/phobias
today in #9chickweedlane i learned that despite being ostensibly new yorkers, the characters in this strip sure like to talk about british royalty all the time
For April's second bonus strip, we see ROBIN in an unused strip that would've run April 16! But didn't! Read this bonus strip and hundreds of previous at the Dumbing of Age Patreon: patreon.com/dumbingofage
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CBS on the cardinals: "One thing we know they're not doing is checking Instagram because their devices have all been confiscated. I believe the kids call it rawdogging."
if you want to know my secret to finishing 6 strips in two days, it's -- you know it -- autism and blaring NES Ducktales Moon Theme nonstop for 36 hours, but i repeat myself
WEEKLY WEDNESDAY @tfwiki.net PIC TWOFER!
It's nigh two minutes on two Generation Two toys that are too expensive, the unreleased Laser Cycles SOUNDWAVE and JAZZ! Man I hope we get a Legacy-molded Soundwave bike someday, but I ain't holding my breath.
youtube.com/shorts/v_S44...
Bill Corbett @billcorbett.bsky.social ⋅ 17h
Aaron Rupar @atrupar.com ⋅ 3d
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“DAMN GIRL, YOU GOT IT IN ONE… TIME TO GET YOU KICKED OUT NOW”
“haha, yeah, sarcasm…?”
…
“Sarah?”
Day-am. Didn’t know Joyce had it in her to be spiteful like that. Ouch.
She’s protective of Becky, and to be fair, Sarah’s using similar reasoning: “I know better than you what you need,” in a nutshell. Of course, that’s pretty much the only parallel. Doesn’t seem like Sarah’s planning on acting on it, especially without Joyce.
Actually, I really “like” this exchange, because too many kids (and adults!) these days don’t have this experience, the whole “Don’t say stupid shit that hurts other people’s feelings because it hurts” thing.
you know, the Louis C.K. thing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HbYScltf1c
Struck a nerve there. Low blow, Joyce.
Et tu, Joyce ?
Damnit Joyce
and boom goes the dynamite
Holy shit
Gosh dang it joyce!!
Joycy: O no, what have I done?!!
Grav checks out
So does yours
And so does yours!
*mic drop*
I see what you did there.
Omg I love this community.
FATALITY MOVE
FINISH HER!
Damn Joyce…
That underbite, Joyce. Damn.
No seriously, that’s crazy. Somebody needs a MARA or something.
Becky does need to find a place to live, she cannot stay forever in the dorms… she might have to find a job too.
She needs the former to obtain the latter and the latter to obtain the former.
Actually, why don’t they bring her to Leslie? If anyone knows how to deal with this situation, it’ll be her!
Every party needs a pooper that’s why they invited you, party pooper, party pooper~
Super Kami Guru!
fpbt fpbt… fpbt fpbt…
Daaaamn Joyce! Ö_Ö
Stress will make you say some mean shit.
Yeah, Joyce is entitled to a little angry outburst after what she just went through; but still a low blow. This’ll take some heavy apology.
As a side note, love your comic, Dave! Also this comic, but that’s a given.
Anger towards who though? I think Sarah is even more entitled to be angry, and yet in this case she’s being rational and considerate.
Admittedly, Sarah would say she was being ‘rational and considerate’ with Dana, as well, but nobody agreed with her, there.
But it’s not Sarah’s fault if Joyce has made a bad comparison or if she’s ignoring Sarah’s pretty clear logic. Sarah could have anonymously reported Becky if she really wanted her gone. It is Sarah’s room, too, and this clearly violates school policy.
But the important thing here (for me anyway) is THAT isn’t Sarah’s reason. It’s not that she’s like “get this annoying girl out of my room” or “this is against the rules.” It’s “This girl is in love with you and it would be healthy for her to have some space to deal with the fact that you’re not romantically or sexually in love with her.”
Really, this isn’t about rules, but about how emotionally shitty this must be for Becky, which is pretty generous of Sarah.
And, again, to remind people: she’s been here for two and a half days in their timeline. I had friends visit from out of town for way longer than that in the dorms and it wasn’t against the rules or much of a big deal.
The issue here is the feels, not the rules.
“Just like you did Dana…and your FACE!”
*ahem*
FAAAAAAAAAAACE
Femurs!
Thank you.
Femurs, Mike, your mom for a nickel, etc.
Dannying things up, all hail satan…
Go leafs?
Joe doin’ shit with his penis, caramel abs…
wiigii? *apathetic shrug*
Lesbian suicide pact…chocolate river of hair..sympathy through light physical contact.
Dina hiding behind the door
Clever girl
FOOOOOOOOOOOLLLL!!!!
Joyce, this is why most people employ a filter when in conversations.
Then again, a lot of people ignore those filters when they’re upset, so. Welp.
Hopefully this will be a chance for both to grow.
Although they may simply grow apart.
By which, you mean hopefully this will be a chance for Joyce to grow. Sarah’s the only one who’s got her head on her shoulders lately.
That’s just what I think, though.
Just because you have your head on your shoulders doesn’t mean you don’t have room to grow. Sarah is very withdrawn, even before the Dana debacle.
And this is gonna lead her into being MORE withdrawn, because all this does is confirm to Sarah that people are assholes, no matter how hard you try and do the right thing, and its better to just stay by yourself and not get your face kicked in, then try.
Sarah’s definitely more “adult” but she’s not necessarily more “mature”, if that makes sense? She has a hard time allowing other people to see her feelings, which often makes them misinterpret her actions, as they assume a completely different intention behind it.
Oh shit.
You know that “Surprised Patrick” meme? That was pretty much my reaction. My jaw actually dropped.
Wow Joyce even Mike would be envious about that
If Mike were there, he would rub that mistake in Joyce’s face.
He most definitely would. And it would be funny if this wasn’t such a sad page.
Mike would rub it in her face the best way possible – by saying “WOW, Joyce, that was a SICK burn. I’m going to make a note of that one, for later. I actually wish I’d come up with that one, myself.”
There’s no better way to make someone feel awful than for Mike to express envy.
Sure there is. Mike could tell you you went too far.
If….if Mike were to say someone went too far, I may well cry.
Nah its to direct for Mike.
Man, I didn’t know Sarah could do eyes like that.
I enjoy the funny faces Willis employs on the DoA cast, but I appreciate the sad ones just as much.
I am 100% with Sarah on this one.
Oh dear oh dear oh dear…
Is… is that a Gotham reference?
Nope. It’s a Gene Wilder reference from decades ago.
And I actually know that exact reference. Now I’m off to watch it.
You’re both wrong. It’s obviously a piglet reference.
Yes
It could be just a heartfelt “Oh, dear” without any external reference.
HERESY
Well, raise my rent. You are the Kid!
Oof. Harsh Joyce.
At her core, Sara doesn’t understand how much this campus represents to Becky and Joyce. Where else will they have the freedom to do things like borrow Sal’s clothes and interact with people like Billie? Yet they might lose this environment, not for legal reasons but for socioeconomic ones. If Joyce ended up back with her family, she might just be home-colleged or else sent to a far more religious, repressive institution. If Becky ended up back with hers…
This ultimately comes down to the fact that Joyce and Becky are extroverts: their lives improve from being around others and improve much MORE when those others have a variety of things going on. Joyce’s relationship with Ethan alone has given her things she wouldn’t have gotten in a lifetime of her old life.
Sara tries to get it, she really does, but she herself is twitchy about any kind of social interaction. If she could be assured that a high-paying employer would take her on after any sort of college, she’d probably elect for distance learning and live at home to save money. Not that she’s fond of her family either, but at least she probably knows how to make them leave her alone.
Solitude, safety, free from others’ unpredictable problems and their judging eyes. Part of us always expects other people to want the things we want.
Sarah is doing her best to prevent Joyce from getting kicked out of college or at least having to deal with her parents if or when Joyces parents find out about Becky staying in the dorm illegally, shes also correct in what she says about Becky
So yes Joyce should feel really bad about this, Sarah has been hothing but supportive about whats happening yet Joyce treats Sarah as if shes some sort of authority to rail against
Sure, but I think we’re missing each other here. Joyce’s fear for her friend and general high stress have led her to say something she’ll really regret. (One MORE layer of guilt, the idea that her PRESENCE might still hurt Becky, didn’t help either.)
It’s not like Sara’s not trying, but that bias of hers keeps getting in her way. She wants to help but something deep inside tells her “people are better off on their own.”
But I really don’t think that is what Sarah is saying here. That Becky is better off dealing with it by herself.
She’s saying that Becky needs to have a life separate from Joyce. Time to herself(whether actually by herself, or meeting new people) to process and heal from Joyce’s rejection and to move on. Not that they have to take a break. Just that they can’t be all up in each other’s business 24-7. Because, having been in Becky’s position, I can tell you that no matter what you’re doing, how much fun you’re having, or who else you’re with, if your unrequited love you still have feelings for is also participating, it’s going to color every experience you have with bitter rejection and loneliness. A constant reminder of something you want so badly but can’t have.
She’s saying that Becky shouldn’t have to do that. Which is what Becky and Joyce are basically planning to do, and it’s going to make them both miserable.
This. Becky might have been having this fantasy of riding off with Joyce into the sunset on a white, rocket-powered Vespa since she hit puberty.
And then it happens! She puts on her big girl pants and goes for it!
And instead of Joyce diving into her arms in all the passion two heavily religious home schooled girls can think up, Joyce freaks out and shuns her like the fear demon in the back of Becky’s head was whispering she would.
And to top if off, now she’s homeless, without her happy ending, and stuck sharing a twin bed with someone she ALSO now knows is a sexual assault victim who still has touching issues.
Sarah’s idea for her to maybe find a better living arrangement doeesn’t really seem “all must suffer alone” to me.
Maybe she doesn’t “get it”, but that also doesn’t mean that she’s wrong. The dorm room, sharing a bed with someone who doesn’t love her like Becky wants to be loved– sure, that may be better than going back home, but “better than the worst option” that doesn’t mean that it’s the best thing for her, even if it was sustainable.
Joyce is equating finding a better place for Becky with kicking her out on the streets, like that’s the only option: “She lives with me taking care of her (even if that care hurts) or she is utterly abandoned”.
That’s not what Sarah said.
Bottom line – Sarah doesn’t need to walk in Joyce or Becky’s shoes to spot when they’re leaving blisters and to suggest that maybe now is the time to find new ones.
Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
Poor Sarah. That had to hurt.
Oh come on, Sarah. You know she’s just lashing out because she’s angry and frustrated.
Not sure she does right now.
Doesn’t change how hateful that was, or how much pain she just caused.
Yeah, she’s just lashing out. But that’s just it. When we lash out at our close friends, friends who have shared with us the places they are most vulnerable, many of us maintain enough self-control and mutual-respect to not aim right for those weak spots. Else we reveal that we do not actually have enough self-control or mutual-respect to remain friends.
Or, at the very least, it proves that we have to be accountable to our friends. Lashing out happens, but it’s also a shitty behavior and people don’t just get passes for shitty behavior.
That’s why it’s so hurtful, when you’re really angry enough, you don’t have any filter, sure you can say things you don’t mean, but you can’t also say things that you don’t normally want to say. Given how Sarah pretty much beats herself up over every flaw she has (even if she seems to do it in a casual way), Sarah is probably more inclined to take it as the latter.
Never got that “You say things you don’t mean when your angry” thing.
You mean it.
You do, or you wouldn’t say it.
You may not WANT to say it, or have said it that particular way, and you’re angry that you brought it up, but that idea that you’re “Oh shit did I say that out loud?!”-ing about? That’s something you at least tangentially believe.
Now, you may tell yourself, “Self, that’s bullshit, it’s not true, get your head back in the game and stop thinking like an ass” But.. still something you gave enough weight as a thought for it to register.
Booze and anger are the keys to our deepest emotional prisons. Some part of us *believes* it, deep down. That little asshole that lives inside us all, that tells us all humans are garbage who stand in our way.
I disagree, when you’re mad enough you’ll say things you don’t mean, things you don’t believe, because you want the other person to hurt and you know what you said will hurt them. That’s what Joyce did here, her anger topped out, she had no responses to anything Sarah had to say so she aimed a comment straight at the one place she knew Sarah would be most vulnerable, the one place she knew it would hurt.
And she *meant* it.
Some part of her wonders if Sarah did it for that reason. The rational part of her mind pushes it out as not true, but there *is* a doubt planted.
I’ve been mad enough to get to this point. I’ve been “I want to see the light die in your eyes” angry. I didn’t need to pull things I knew were lies, because that’s not how we really function.
Irrational brain wanted to hurt something. That something was the other person, and Irrational brain knew how to do that.
The rational part of your brain kicks in later and smothers the doubt with rationalizations, but that doesn’t mean some part of us doesn’t believe it.
I like my friend. Rationally, I know she didn’t intend for a thing to happen the way it did. But there is always a smidgen of doubt as to if it was intentional or not, and if it was intentional, *boy* would it hurt if I smacked that doubt in her face.
Rational me wouldn’t dream of doing that, because the chance is minimal and she’s shown to not be that type of person, but rational brain’s off doing body shots with my last good nerve, so it’s monkey brain time!
Rationalizing away the belief doesn’t mean it’s not still inside your head.
Joyce may have been lashing out, but lashes still hurt.
She knows that, but it doesn’t make it hurt any less.
True. It hurts especially because Sarah is afraid that Joyce is right.
I don’t think that’s it at all. It hurts especially because Joyce is the one person Sarah has let in, emotionally, this year, and Joyce just showed her that people will always misconstrue her motivations and attack her for the ways she expresses her caring.
I think both are true. (What you said is most definitely true – I believe what I said is true too)
I can go with you on that, actually. Which makes me even sadder for Sarah!
Three is a crowd…
Joyce got a nasty side.
Yup. There are some slight paralells between her and Amber (there are lots of stuff that is not similar too, of course).
joyce no
this is probably going to make the party a bit awkward
Like Sara would have stuck around for the party anyway. This just sealed it.
I think she might have.
Not cool, Joyce. Very not cool.
your ava is the face I did reading this
also said ava is super cute
not saying I’M super cute (though, I am, haha!) but the whole “mouth all pensive and bug-eyed” thing going on
To be fair, that’s how Tedd’s eyes (and those of most other EGS characters) always look…it’s just how Dan Shive draws ’em. >_>
Hey, sorry to bother you, but what is your avatar photo from??
El Goonish Shive.
Warning… There’s a 12 year long archive and…well, the early stuff isn’t really…good. (A lot of the after-the-fact commentary is Dan ‘WTF?’ing at his past self.) The panel I’ve used is from Squirrel Prophet, the most recent complete arc.
Oh awesome, thank you!
The early EGS stuff is pretty rough, but I’d still put it on par with Roomies or the start of Schlock Mercenary. The later work is much more polished, but can be a little hard to understand if you haven’t read all the way through. Pretty large cast, and many of the characters (especially Elliot, Grace, and Tedd) change between multiple forms regularly.
the first comic mentions that the first comics always suck… clever they have my respect.
Jeezus Joyce
Wooooooo~! Party!
okay Joyce that was uncalled for
Low blow.
Joyce you done fucked up
This strip has left me more sad than probably any other…yet thanks to this comment I must leave this here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WSe9ugpXIw
Wow. Low blow. I think Sarah would be entirely justified in ratting them out now.
It would be understandable, but not i think justified.
Not really, no. “Your friend hurt my feelings, now you’ve got to be homeless” isn’t exactly fair.
Fighting defensive vindictiveness with defensive vindictiveness isn’t exactly super.
I definitely wouldn’t say justified. And I’m not sure that’s where we’re going right now. I feel if Sarah was angry, she might consider it. But she seems more devasted really. I have no clue on what her next action will be.
Though this might really drive Sarah back into her shell. This is a vastly different reaction to when Billie leveled a similar accusation at her. If even Joyce lashes out at her when she feels she’s trying to do the right thing, it’s definitely going to discourage her from getting involved in the affairs of others.
No, I think this is something Joyce has to come to see on her own. That she isn’t actually helping Becky just keeping her in a sort of limbo state, rather than establishing a new life for herself.
If she ratted them out she becomes the villain and Joyce won’t learn anything.
Wow seriously Joyce? Sarah is the only one in the room right now trying to genuinely help Becky. You did the inital helping great but now Becky is just in a holding pattern. Hell try and get her into the college and on fin aid so she can get her own dorm room.
Sarah isn’t saying “kick her to the streets” she is saying “Find her a better long term solution”
Joyce (and also p much all college students): putting the “dumbing” in Dumbing of Age
Honestly I kind of want to give them both a talking-to. Or at any rate tell Joyce that she cannot use “it’s the truth” as an excuse to say rotten things or engage in emotional blackmail(setting aside Becky’s living situation since that requires a qualified professional or someone with a bigger social and support network than Joyce has) and tell Sarah that she cannot keep jumping in and trying to fix other people’s problems for them(especially when you are not privy to all relevant information).
In this case, Sarah’s already involved, whether she likes it or not.
I meant on the emotional toll part, not the “if someone narcs there is nothing whatsoever we can do to protect Becky so let’s get a plan B started (shelter, spare bed at queer-friendly Episcopal chaplaincy, friend-of-a-friend who has a spare bedroom, whatever)” part.
(Joyce’s problem meanwhile besides utter lack of a filter is that she is too wrapped up in protecting Becky to realize that she needs an income, liquid cash and housing that is under her direct control. I understand why she doesn’t realize this since neither her nor Becky have even lived away from home for more than a few weeks but it really does not help.)
It’s a little more than that. If Becky gets found out, it’s not just going to come back on Joyce, Sarah could get kicked out of school too.
And yet, despite that, Sarah’s more concerned with the fact that Becky’s feelings for Joyce have to be hurting her and that the forced proximity is making it worse.
But beyond that, Joyce is not some random stranger; not pointing out to someone that’s genuinely a friend that they’re doing something pretty horrible is not helping them out. It’s enabling shitty behavior. Joyce is lashing out because she doesn’t want to accept the reality of the situation, but she’s going to have to one way or another; she is actually hurting Becky with her actions.
That may be true, but it is absolutely not something Sarah should say in response to “Just like Dana.”
Joyce has certainly done her best to ensure that Sarah will never try to fix any of her problems ever again.
What information about Becky does Sarah not have? Sarah is, in this instance, looking out for all three of them.
And Becky living there is also Sarah’s problem. Not just in logistics, but also in who gets blamed if the school finds out. Even ignoring the risk Sarah is taking on, if Becky starts on a downward spiral(easily could happen as she just lost her entire support network and faced Joyce’s rejection less than a week later), she’ll probably take Joyce with her. And Sarah, too, because Sarah is obviously pretty invested in her friendship with Joyce.
Congratulations on reminding Sarah why she doesn’t open up to people, Joyce. You want to give that knife a couple twists while you’re at it?
Surely Joyce can just eat the still beating heart she just ripped out.
I don’t think the world is ready for a Joyce that has absorbed Sarah’s power.
no joyce…
joyce, no.
Am I the only one who thinks Becky living with Marcie would solve a few immediate problems?
And why would Marcie want to do that even temporarily? Might not even be possible. One of my dorms had a solo-in-a-double situation going on – the girl had medical issues that required a full-blown freezer full of meds and some other equipment that took up almost as much room as the bed and desk it replaced.
Marcie doesn’t live in the dorms.
(Though we know nothing about her living situation besides the fact that she’s not a student. I feel from what we’ve seen of Billie and Sal’s room that she’s not crashing there.)
Oh right, I’m conflating her living situation with Carla’s, who’s actually in an assigned single. Never mind then.
Still doesn’t know Becky, though.
Are you thinking of Carla? She’s the one with a double to herself; Marcie doesn’t live in the dorms.
I was, but the cast page says Carla’s got a single. Which is weird, because I would have sworn somebody had a double room all to themselves. Must be my imagination.
Sal kinda does now.
Wow. I had not thought of this, but it would work so well.
Unfortunately, I don’t think Joyce and Sal know each other well enough that this is likely.
It would, but it is quite unlikely this would happen;
– Sal and Joyce aren’t -that- close
– Joyce doesn’t even know Marcie (as far as I recall)
– Sal and Marcie weren’t on the best terms last I remember
They could find each other on craigslist or a bulletin board or what-have-you.
I know plot-wise it would take a long time to even set up (Joyce would have to meet Marcie, the topic would have to come up, Becky would be there somehow), but I see it as a more immediate solution than anything else I can think of.
Not really. All that -really- needs to happen is that Sal needs to hear about Becky’s situation and suggest that she knows somebody who has their own place.
The immediate solution is for Becky to go check into the local homeless shelter and start looking for work. She’s young, healthy, and has no drug or drinking problems. With help from the staff it shouldn’t take more than a month for her to find an entry-level job and cheap housing, probably with other “graduates” from the same shelter. Might be less – I’m an old man with a lousy skill set and some mental health issues and I was only in for two weeks before I found a “situation” that let me get out.
Shelters really kind of suck and no one wants to stay in one long, but they’ll help get you back on your feet if you’re willing to work with them.
There is no world in which I’d let a friend move into a homeless shelter unless there were literally no other options, especially not a young, inexperienced 18 year old moving into an adult shelter. I say this as someone who worked in a shelter for youth aged 13-18 and who worked with transitioning youth 18-21 – those shelters are usually VERY dangerous for younger adults and Becky has none of the street skills to succeed there.
To be honest, Sarah pushed it.
To be honest, Sarah was right about everything she said, and Joyce just crossed a very bad line.
Yeah, I think this one was on Bad Choice Joyce.
Sarah was actually making a reasonable and empathetic point, which Joyce misconstrued as a leadup to “–and so let’s kick her out” instead of “–and so let’s help her find an independent place where she can be safe and happy,” or wherever Sarah might have gone with it.
Joyce has been visibly really twichy for a few pages already.
Welp. I think Sarah’s done with this conversation… and every future conversation.
Quite possible. Has me wondering how much trouble she’ll have requesting a new room assignment. Can’t think of anyone in the cast that’s likely to just swap with her offhand (well, maybe Dorothy?) but there are always openings somewhere on campus.
Sarah has no alternative but to turn away in silence, since there is no cafeteria tray handy.
Body blow!
Thing is, I know Sarah is right, but she’s right for the wrong reasons…
I keep seeing variations on this “right for the wrong reasons.”
What are the wrong reasons?
I think its because she got Dana kicked out not because she cared about her health, but because she didn’t want to risk her scholarship. I don’t know how true this is but it’s what I think the complaint is.
She was watching her CORRODE right in front of her, yes part of the reason was that her scholarship was tanking, but Dana was being a menace to both herself AND Sarah, if Sarah hadn’t intervened Dana would have DIED.
And, as I recall, Sarah didn’t get her kicked out of school.
Sarah contacted Dana’s family, who took her out of school for her own well being. That’s an entirely different situation. One that had the best chance for Dana to get the help she needed, as Dana clearly wasn’t letting anyone else help her.
Mendo wasn’t talking about the Dana situation, I don’t think, tho. I think he was saying she’s right about -Becky- for the wrong reasons, but I don’t think that’s true at all. Nothing she’s said has implied that she’s saying any of this for selfish reasons. She’s right that Joyce needs to let Becky have her own space, she’s right about -why-, she’s right that Becky needs a better long term living situaiton, and she’s right about why on that, as well.
Sarah has shown repeatedly that she has trouble telling the difference between “maturity” and “looking out for number one”. Dana might have been on-track to get herself killed, but Sarah only intervened because Dana was in her way. Speaking as someone who’s dealt with addiction, myself, going behind someone’s back and getting other people to take over their lives is NOT the way to help someone. People need to *want* to fix themselves, and since Dana clearly didn’t, what Sarah did can’t really be classified as a good deed, since she probably only made the underlying need for chemical escape worse…
Saying “Oh, well, it doesn’t count because Sarah only did it for herself.” doesn’t really hold water, because it is clear that Sarah varnishes her genuine emotions with layers of snark and self-interest to distance herself from them.
NO ONE was helping Dana at the time. Sarah clearly lacks the ability to discuss emotional issues, and Dana was actively hiding her problems from her friends. “She was getting better!” is what Raidah said. When, in fact, she clearly wasn’t.
We also don’t actually know the terms under which Dana left school. It could be Dana and her dad had a long talk and decided to leave. We know that Sarah called her dad, and then Dana left. Hell, it could be that Dana and her father were very close and he would have normally intervened by this time, but was distracted by his own grief. Sarah’s call was a wake up to him that he still had a daughter to take care of, even if she is technically an adult. At the very least, Dana is now with someone who can get her help if she wants it.
Also keep in mind that this would have happened over a very short period of time. Not even two months, because it was just after midterms that Sarah called Dana’s dad. Dana was falling far and very fast.
I’m inclined to suspect something closer to pulling her out on the spot; if she decided to leave after talking to her dad I’d have expected a few last days on campus to sort through leave of absence paperwork, notify professors, say goodbye to friends, and clean up loose ends. Also from a narrative standpoint, “she seemed like she was doing better and all of a sudden Daddy pulled out of school on no notice” explains her friend’s reaction better than “she decided to go home because she was having a much rougher time than we thought she was” does.
But she wasn’t admitting to her friends that she was having a problem. Her friends thought she was getting better, but Sarah lives with her. She can’t hide how bad it is from Sarah like she can from her non-roommates. They don’t hear her sobbing every night. They don’ t know she smokes weed constantly. Saying “I’m dropping out because I can’t deal with this anymore.” is an admission that there is a problem. From the confrontation between Raidah and Sarah at the time, Dana either didn’t want try to say goodbye. (possibly wasn’t allowed to, but the other two seem more likely to me, in the circumstances)
I also got the impression from Raidah that, though she has talked with Dana, it’s not very often or very recently. Dana was no doubt angry that she got pulled out of school and vented to Raidah about it. (You’re right Dana probably didn’t leave by choice.) But I feel like if Dana had said something specific about being mad at Sarah, Raidah would have said so. She just said that, last time she checked on her, Dana wasn’t happy. The fact that she actually told Raidah that, when before she was isolating herself and pretending nothing was wrong, indicates at least some improvement for Dana.
If Sarah was motivated by selfishness, she would have just reported Dana for drugs and gotten her kicked out. Which, I might add, would have been entirely within her right, as both of them could be kicked out of school if Dana got caught with it in their room.
@gordon-I know she wasn’t getting better. That’s the point I was going for-her friends seemed like they were blindsided by her getting pulled out because they had no way of knowing how bad she was and getting pulled out on short notice seemed more consistent with that lack of knowledge. Since they unlike us are not omniscient.
Even if Sarah’s only motivation was looking out for herself (and if it was, she would have notified the university and had Dana actually kicked out), I disagree that that’s a wrong reason. Looking out for yourself is not some kind of inherently bad act.
True. Especially given the fact that Sarah’s demands were not excessive… she wasn’t demanding things she was not entitled to. But nobody deserves to have a disruptive room mate.
Sarah’s afraid of being caught up in things she isn’t equipped to handle. I’ve been there, it isn’t fun.
Joyce is afraid of not being there for a friend who has nothing else. I’ve also been there.
On a fundamental level, they’re worried about the exact same thing, just from two different directions. Neither is entirely right or entirely wrong. Of course arguing is so much easier than actually working things out and figuring out what needs to be done.
Right. And what 18 year old is prepared to deal with a friend who is homeless and completely without support? Very few. They’re all cobbling together what they know of the world to deal with this and (I remind again) it’s been less than THREE DAYS since she’s been there and basically a day and a half since they found out what was up.
I feel like I am legitimately missing something. Where is Sarah wrong in this instance? Joyce is wrong, because Sarah at no point suggested that they throw Becky out. She made so many leaps to that conclusion that I’m pretty sure it qualifies as a superpower and when Sarah tried to defend herself against that accusation Joyce lashed out with the most hurtful thing she could think of.
The strip right before this one:
Joyce: Well, then let’s just throw her out on the street, then!
Sarah: Exactly what you said, but with less sarcasm.
“Well, okay, a little sarcasm.” So what she meant can probably be construed as saying that Becky should get out of the current living situation but by moving into a better one not just by giving her the boot.
This is exactly how I interpreted it.
Ouch. That is all.
Joyce… Joyce, no
Sheesh though, I really do feel for Sarah. Despite her cynicism and grumpiness, she did open up to Joyce about something sensitive, and she clearly cares about her; (yeah I know she made jokes about her behind her back but she hella regretted it, plus there was that whole ‘Old Testament God’ final form she took at the party) and this ends up being the result. We’ve seen her get frustrated before, but damn if Willis didn’t perfectly depict her getting shot right in the heart. Not a hint of anger in that 4th panel whatsoever.
Everyone makes mistakes, but sometimes people make biiiiiig mistakes. Even if Joyce didn’t mean it, she still sure as hell said it boldly and firmly. I have a feeling that this’ll definitely draw a line between the two of ’em for a while…
Wow. Joyce has said a lot of stupid things before in her ignorance, but I don’t think she’s ever been so willfully cruel.
After Sarah trusted you with the details of her situation with Dana and her insecurities about how she handled the situation, you, with laser guided precision, throw it back in her face to win a fight?!
If it were me, I wouldn’t tell Joyce anything about my past ever again. In fact, I wouldn’t blame Sarah for never wanting to speak with Joyce after that.
She wasn’t thinking clearly, for a one moment she let all the stress and rage boil up till she exploded and lash out at Sarah by going into personal shit then instantly regret it.
Still though should have thought about if that was called for or not before she did it which it wasn’t, Damn that was cold blooded.
Not an excuse. You don’t excuse a drunk driver for hurting someone because they weren’t thinking clearly.
that exactly, but without being sarcastic.
You sure? ‘Cuz that sounded a little sarcastic.Really? Strikethrough? It’s hard to find a good sarcasm indicator in this comment forum…
Joe avatar. Only way to be sure.
I wasn’t being sarcastic.
Yeah, that’s a really bad thing, like mega bad. When you’re a personality that is already on a path to repressing things and alienating others out of issues regarding trust, someone taking a sore point like this and just nuking it from orbit like this is one of those things that makes it hard to ever open up again. And the worst part is that you can see exactly how she takes it in the last panel. Not angry, not sad, just completely disappeared inside of herself. That’s an emotional retreat and it may be a while before Sarah trusts her again emotionally.
It is wholly possible that Joyce will never regain the trust she’s abused here. When you share one of your deepest insecurities with someone and they weaponize that knowledge in an argument it can destroy your faith in them pretty absolutely.
This isn’t Joyce being willfully and intentionally cruel. This strikes me as a purely emotional response with very little thought behind it. This is what Joyce looks like when she lashes out emotionally, because she is hurting, scared, and deeply stressed out. Joyce really needs help.
Of course that doesn’t make it right, and its something she’s going to have to really beg forgiveness for. (I think that is already something she realizes from the last panel.) Friends do forgive each other though, so I think they’ll work it out. But Sarah is going to be very prickly for a while I’d imagine.
Eh, It was a cruel. Full stop. Probably the most cruel thing Joyce could have possibly said to Sarah, at this stage of their friendship.
No matter how stressed and upset Joyce is, taking someone’s painful past experiences and weaponizing them is not acceptable or understandable.
Your intentions are irrelevant to the harm you cause.
Let’s not forget that, willingly or not, Joyce is Sarah’s only friend. Raidah hates her, Jacob’s not speaking to her since she drove him away. Joyce is literally the only person Sarah opens up occasionally to.
Sarah needs more friends, which is another problem that needs to be addressed down the line. Note how she and Dorothy had the same initial problem (they really need to study), but Dorothy handled the social aspect of her gameplan much better.
Yeah, that is a pretty big issue for Sarah, which probably stems from her low self esteem and is self-perpetuating. (She hates herself, so obviously people must hate her, too. > She avoids people. > Does not gain coping mechanisms or social skills that help her deal with people. > Finds it difficult to relate to or deal with people. > Avoids people.> Repeat the last two steps ad nauseam)
I don’t think that’s a key element here, though. Sarah has been pretty competent, clear and accommodating in her interactions with Joyce and Becky.
I don’t get what you mean by it not being “willfully and intentionally cruel”. She chose to say something that she knew would hurt Sarah. That was her intent, that was her will– maybe she regretted it after, but that doesn’t mean she didn’t do it intentionally.
Or maybe by “willfully and intentionally cruel” what you mean is “because she gets joy out of seeing another person in pain”, and yeah, she didn’t do it for that reason, or to meangirl her way to the top or whatever. She did it because she felt threatened by what Sarah was saying, she didn’t want to have to deal with it, so she lashed out to hurt Sarah and make her retreat. She said the thing that she knew would hurt, because she knew it would hurt.
Intent matters a lot less than effect.
It was a bit word-salady wasn’t it?
I didn’t mean Joyce did it out of some meangirl desire to cause suffering. But she chose a very personal insult because she knew it would hurt, because she didn’t think or care how much it would hurt so long as Sarah backed off.
It’s a contrast to Joyce’s argument with Roz regarding her promiscuity. Joyce said some terrible things, things that hit a nerve with Roz judging by her strong reaction, but Joyce didn’t say them because she wanted to hurt Roz so much as because she was being stupid and self-righteous.
You’re right, it is a difference of intent and effect. Imo, intent does matter alot less than effect, but I don’t think that makes intent meaningless.
damn, i didn’t realise this was a response to a response. Problems judging how far indented the avatars are. Mea culpa. Carry on.
This is a massive abuse of the trust Sarah had put in Joyce. She opened up about a profound insecurity that gnaws at her to this day and Joyce used that knowledge as a weapon because she knew how much it haunted her. It is a completely inexcusable way to treat someone you care about no matter how angry or stressed out you are. It is emotional abuse.
Daaaaaaaaamn son. Joyce 1, Sarah 0. Girl has big brass cajones that clank when she walks.
However, that was completely uncalled for. While the situations are kind of sort of maybe similar, that was a shitty thing to say. Sarah definitely has well meaning misguided thinking. She’s well meaning when she wants Becky to have a healthy environment, but she doesn’t consider what would actually happen if they kicked her out. She wants her to find a better place, but isn’t offering solutions.
Honestly I think this is going to cause a HUGE rift in Sarah and Joyce’s relationship. I think that there is regret on Sarah’s side for what she did. Instead of bringing this to the attention of the RA who would point her to resources, she straight up kicked her out.
There are resources for Becky however, and hopefully they can take advantage of them.
Sarah didn’t really have a chance to offer solutions did she, she stated what the issue, what she wants for Becky and then got blind-sided by a vicious hit by Joyce which Sarah could have easily countered by bringing up saving from sexual assault but didn’t (Sarahs got class) so no real chance to bring up what solutions which Joyce wouldn’t be in the mood to listen to anyway
There’s nothing ballsy at all about exploiting that kind of vulnerability.
Agreed. Joyce did a very low kick there. She obviously has realized that too.
But…party…
Probably going to short at least one person, if it goes off at all after this.
…damn.
Sarah did that in a way that had to rev Joyce up and then Joyce went critical not because Sarah wants to “get rid of” Becky, because at some level she knows or suspects that Sarah is right and fears that she is hurting Becky and doesnt know what to do–and so she stuck that emo knife in Sarahs most vulnerable place, deliberately to hurt her, which she knew it would. VERY bad show; very sad.
Oh wow. Now that was uncalled for Joyce.
Oh!…shit, this was tense time to check in.
And the Dana story is still kind of technical, Sarah did the right the right thing and it was reasonable but it wasn’t entirely for the right reasons.
Does Joyce believe it was the right thing though? We still don’t know how she feels about the Dana thing, she’s made no judgements on that.
Given the situation, Sarah did the one thing that was in her power to do.
She told people who cared and were better equipped to handle Dana’s problems.
Dana was in a downward spiral that only Sarah was seeing, as Dana put on a front for her other friends and presumably her family. Dinah said she was getting better, but Sarah knew it was getting worse. Yes, she could have told the school, but she didn’t. She contacted Dana’s dad, who took Dana out of school. Hopefully, he got her the help she needed. Help she was unwilling or unable to get by herself.
Yes, getting Dana out of there did benefit her academically, but it was the best thing for Dana.
Sarah comes off a lot more selfish than she actually is because she doesn’t have the social skills to properly express herself.
I meant Raidah.
Even if Sarah’s whole reason for contacting Dana’s father was because she was threatening her scholarship it would still be the right reason. Taking care of yourself is not a bad reason to do something especially when that something is removing an obviously toxic influence.
Whoa, Joyce pullin the low blow. Like shoot man, that one came outta no where.
I would offer you some soft serve to dull the pain but … >.>
Yes, I believe that road has been well traveled at this point. And I still intend to sue you… just as soon as that bounty hunter I hired manages to locate and drag you back to the courthouse.
Well they’ll have to get through my counter hunter first!
Then I suppose I’ll have to use the number of that counter-counter hunter.
Oh but you fail to realize my counter hunter is uncounterable! -evil laughter-
CURSE YOU WORLDEATER, AND YOUR UNCOUNTERABLE COUNTER!!
Then we’ll just follow the trail of ice cream disasters.
I scream!
You scream!
The police show up!
It’s awkward!
Dude this low blow was worse than what Mayweather did to Pacquiao, amirite?
(Boxing references!)
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHH *insert airhorn noises here*
It’s sad how Joyce still thinks Sarah hates her and hates everyone. Yet Sarah has done nothing to justify that. Being introverted and socially awkward does not mean you hate people.
When it comes down to it, if Joyce had to chose between Becky and Sarah…..
Yeah, the one person Sarah’s given any real indication she hates is herself.
You fucked up Joyce. You FUCKED UP.
I’d like to remind people, since the pace of the strip often makes people lose perspective on this, that all of this is happening in a very short amount of time. This isn’t a drawn out conversation, it’s an argument. It does not excuse Joyce, but this is also not a calculated jab, it’s a kneejerk reaction because Joyce is being defensive of her friend. Joyce loves Sarah, but Becky has been her immediate concern and she’s been very protective of her.
Sarah did not mean it is an attack, and while that’s nice and all, that’s not how it came across to Joyce, and it’s not how actual arguments tend to go, especially on very sore subjects. Feelings get hurt.
What?
Sarah simply explained that it was best for Becky and Joyce to not always be around each other, and Joyce immediately jumped to “Fine, let’s just kick her out.” Completely ignoring the fact that Sarah didn’t even begin to suggest that. Joyce flips out, and Sarah calmly explained that, the best thing for Becky would be to find a better place to live. Sarah is talking long term. And given that up to now, she’s been very concerned with Joyce’s well-being, you can’t claim that her motives are selfish.
In fact, given how this whole Becky thing has played out, Sarah has been very calm and accommodating, considering how Joyce invited a literal stranger(to Sarah) to live in their tiny shared living space for an unlimited amount of time without consulting her. Something that could easily get both of them kicked out of the dorm.
Joyce unfairly lashed out at Sarah in the most hurtful way possible. This isn’t a “everyone shares some of the blame” situation. This is all on Joyce.
This.
I really didn’t see Sarah arguing in the direction of throwing Becky out like Joyce assumed, more just being respectful of Becky’s need for autonomy.
So yeah, in Sarah’s experience, she has accepted a less than ideal (for her) situation and has really tried to rise above herself and do right by her “little sister” and give really good advice and Joyce has now flipped out on her over a complete misinterpretation and hit her in the one place that you just don’t hit.
Joyce completely fucked the pooch here and the worst part is that it probably won’t fall back on Joyce or Becky. This is just hitting the button you don’t hit with Sarah and Sarah is going to carry that.
This.^
Joyce is gonna regret this one. And, no, not because Sarah’s going to tell on them. Because she just lost the sister/friend who *literally* went to bat for her.
I doubt she’s LOST her, but she’s hurt her, and that’s almost as bad.
I don’t know how Sarah will trust her again. Or when.
Or why.
The most important of the W questions.
I don’t know Joyce did a pretty great job of validating all of Sarah’s insecurity and mistrust about others as well as her own self loathing. It would be entirely realistic and understandable if this killed their friendship.
Is there a possible reason why Joyce flipped out irrationally like that?
This may just be another sign that she’s at the end of her rope and not able to cope. These signs have been steadily coming, but with the more recent plot lines it has been more obvious just how badly Joyce is handling things.
Because Joyce’s method of dealing with everything is to bottle it up until she thinks she can safely ignore it. It’s very clear, I think, from how she and Becky are handling this whole situation that they are both content to bury their heads in the sand and pretend that everything is going to be just fine the way it is.
Sarah isn’t letting her do that here, and she has no other method of coping.
Wait a sec… are you saying keeping things bottled up and ignoring them ISN’T the best solution at all times?
Darn, I’ve been doing things wrong.
Well, I mean… I have my own impressive bottle collection.
So, your mileage may vary, I guess.
“Because arguments”?
I didn’t say Sarah shared blame. I said that Joyce was on the defensive, because she was. Arguments are about practically everything BUT logic. All of the conflicts that have occurred in this comic, how many of them would have been avoided if it was easy as “Well, here’s what they intended versus here is how it felt”. Joyce got mother bear on her, and regretted it instantly.
Eh, I was more taking issue with the word argument. An argument has two viewpoints that are in conflict. You weren’t having an argument with the bear when it mauled you. The tornado didn’t have an argument with your house when it turned it into a spinning cloud of debris.
Joyce flipped her shit and lashed out in the most painful way she could think of when all Sarah did was say that the current situation is not good for Becky in the long term.
Mother bear my fuzzy ass, she used Sarah as a vent to get over her stress about the last three days.
“Oh my best friend is gay and wants to feel me up! Oh my boyfriend is also gay and DOESN’T want to feel me up! And I’ve been an asshole to him without realizing it! Oh good, my best friend who tried to feel me up now knows about my sexual assault, and we’re sharing a twin bed now! Ahahahaha… just keep smiling Joyce.. just keep smiling!”
And then Sarah, who has a track record of not getting involved with people’s garbage, tries to help her with her garbage, Joyce flips her shit and says the ONE THING that will hurt Sarah more then anything else.
But it’s okay.. because feelings. -snide-
Yeah, because Sarah’s never been shitty to someone based on her feelings. No one in this college is a saint.
you pressed the Diana button. You shouldn’t have did that
Low blow…
Suddenly It hurts to feel……Damn Joyce….
Sarah has just said what I’ve been thinking.
Joyce doesn’t mean to hurt Becky like this, of course. And evidently isn’t even aware of that fact- it looks like everything’s hunky-dory because they’re still friends and went through a situation that could’ve broke weaker friendships.
But staying in close proximity of an unrequited love is a strain in any situation. And, as someone that’s been there multiple times– to be frank, it fucking hurts.
Is anyone here thinking Sarah is in the wrong? Because Becky being in Joyce’s bed isn’t emotionally healthy–but she needs to get over her crush and move on. Also, while not emotionally healthy, there’s also PHYSICALLY healthy which Becky needs to be too as she gets into her new life. Sarah, by contrast, constantly prefers to drive people away who make her life too complex.
I think Sarah’s right in the sense that when she says that Becky sharing a bed with Joyce is emotionally harmful to Becky. The best way to get over a crush is to spend some time apart. And Becky doesn’t have that opportunity in the current situation. I think Sarah is trying to keep both Joyce and Becky’s best interests at heart. But her history of keeping people out emotionally is making her actions seem more selfish to others.
Throwing Becky out onto the street isn’t physically or emotionally healthy, no. But, that’s not what Sarah was suggesting. Best I could tell, she was suggesting that Joyce help Becky find a better housing solution. Motives may be partly selfish (of course she doesn’t want to face repercussions for harboring Becky in the dorm), but I think her solution was taking into account what will be good for Becky, too.
She’s also taking into account what will be good for Joyce as well. Joyce is in just as much trouble, if not more, if Becky finds out.
I’m actually imagining Becky’s going to be crushed when she finds out what happened. Once again, Joyce is chopping the ropes of the bridges, and it’s because of her. Becky is going to feel like she’s a poisonous influence in Joyce’s life, which is going to make her try to stay away, despite what Joyce tells her. And that is going to lead to guilt and stress building up in Joyce.
But uh, PARTY!
Are we ever going to see Dana again ? Just to get closer on this.
I highly doubt it. Between the flashbacks and Sarah’s explanations, her story has been told and her contribution to this ball of confusion has been made.
Me: What? Sarah didn’t do anything to Dinah *rereads* oh
Somewhere inside Joyce’s head:
Brain: Okay, sorry everyone, I had to step out. Nature called and all that. Anyway, as far as Mouth’s recent proposal, I’m going to go ahead and nix that suggestion. Frankly, it would be the most insensitive, soul-crushing, stupid thing we could say to Sarah. And on top of that, its blatantly untrue and unfair, since she’s essentially been putting up with keeping Becky here this entire time despite what a huge imposition it is on her living situation. Worst case scenario, this could provoke her into doing the very thing we are accusing her of wanting! So, no, definitely don’t do that.
Mouth: …..heh….uhhh….
Brain: Oh god dammit.
I hate it when that happens. At times, my brain is seriously second-guessing the benefit of having a mouth.
Brain: That’s IT, Mouth! You’re no longer second-in-command here. Now, who else can I choose…
Hands?
Hands: YESS!! TIME TO DRAW MORE DONGS!!!
Brain: Err, maybe not… Loins?
Loins: HEEHEEHEee mustn’t touch mustn’t touch hehheehheeee!!!
Brain: DEFINITELY NOT. Okay, Stomach, guess that leaves you.
Stomach: Sweet! Time for tacos and soft-serve! As long as the tacos are separated into component parts, and eaten separately.
Brain: Eh, at least HE’s not mad with repressed PSL. Okay, time to go watch more Dexter and Monkey Master!
I’m pretty sure the Loins are very much in favor of being touched. Brain’s been the one vetoing that stuff.
That was kinda the point – Loins are repressed and crazy.
What about the Heart? Does the Heart get a say or is it locked up in its own room?
Wha- There’s a difference between the Heart and the Stomach?? o_O
I like how in the old days the stomach was where the love was, not the heart. Damned heart.. you pump the blood and shut your mouth.. stomach’s all about the hunger for cupcakes and dongs..
For the love of God, do not attempt CPR.
Heart: *beat* -I’m- *beat* -rather- *beat -busy- *beat -right- *beat* -now- *beat*
Brain: You’re always busy, Heart. Thanks a lot.
Eyes: But staring at a screen is boooring!
Eyes: I’m gonna look at Ethan’s butt for a bit.
Brins: Dang it, you’re not helping either!
Butt: I’m with Loins on this one.
Ooh, I like how the panels get tighter as Joyce and Sarah get more in each other’s faces. Maybe this is pretty basic layout stuff and I just never really noticed because I don’t read a lot of comics, either way it’s a nice touch.
*scribble notes down for future reference*
Panel 4 is just painful. It’s rare for us to see Sarah in a not-snappy or stern mood, her jaw is always very set. Here she’s gone slackjawed, it makes her face rounder, and it feels almost unnatural. A++ visual language informing character right here.
Panel 5 is similar in those regards for Joyce, which is appropriate since it is her reaction to panel 4. One doesn’t need to read the dialog bubbles to know what is happening there.
Some things cannot be unsaid.
WHOOPS THERE GOES JOYCE FROM MY FAVORITE CHARACTER LIST
The main issue here is that Joyce has been going through some hard shit and this is all happening in a month. Let’s see here, She almost gets date raped, she has to deal with being in love with a gay guy who can never love her back, oh and her best friend is homeless and hiding from her dickbag of a father! This has all happened in a month. This is made even worse by the fact that Joyce doesn’t allow herself to get angry or sad. Having your best friend hide in your dorm room, when you know that you can’t always protect her is scary and depressing. If anyone else was in the room she would have lashed out at them. Joyce is just scared and she’s lashing out like a scared animal lashes out at the people trying to protect it.
That best friend also declared she was in love with her out of the blue, and Joyce has been guilt tripping herself over her own sexual fantasies about Ethan, and she’s started lying to her parents. So even more pressure.
No Joyce noooo!
…Poor Sarah D:
Ah c’mon guys, Joyce lashed out but she doesn’t need all this hate for it. She’s frustrated right now and been through a lot, and yeah this was a dick thing to say but you can see she instantly regrets it and apologises. I would get the WOW JOYCE if she said this on purpose, but it’s clearly a stressed out slip up. I’m feeling for Sarah because this hurts, but we’ve all been there.
tl;dr : cut joyce some slack peeps!
Regret and apologize doesn’t make the pain go away. Yes Joyce had been through a lot, her action were understandable but it’s not make it justifiable. I hate using strawman fallacy, but meh, if someone stabbed you, instantly apologize, and bring you to the hospital, even though you come out health, the emotional fear and resentment still linger, especially if the someone who stabbed you is the one you trust and cared for.
Sarah had been nothing but a caring and considerate individual for Joyce. She got Joyce out of the rape at the party scene, she accommodating enough for the second Dinah (aka Becky) which I remind you, had threatened her scholarship (and if you don’t fully realize the extent of the scholarship’s importance, it secured you a degree that protecting you from spending the rest of your future to being a fast-food burger flipper). So Sarah had take a great personal risk to help Becky.
Heck in the previous strip, she only initiate the conversation to made Joyce realize that human emotion were indicated in the most subtle way, and sometimes good intention doesn’t meant you’d get a good result.
As far as I concern Sarah try to diffuse the situation when Joyce exploding, which she response by stabbing her in the place you should never ever ever stab. Sarah convey her innermost feeling and trouble to Joyce when she told her about Dinah, and I don’t know about you, but I humbly thought that deserve respect and consideration.
Yes Sarah were a bit sarcastic, however from the content of her conversation she concerned for Becky and Joyce.
Joyce could stop her outburst before that happen, but no, she more cared to relieve her anger than considering her “supposed” best friend feeling.
I understand why she did it. I just wish she didn’t do it. No amount of understanding will make what she said acceptable.
Hate? I see very little hate here. A lot of people don’t like what Joyce just said, for obvious reasons, but expressing that displeasure does not equal hate.
I always love how when characters do things like this they’re always instantly the worst. Because y’know nobody ever says something they don’t mean or regret in an argument.
She pretty much did the absolute worst thing she could do in this situation. She dredged up a secret that Sarah trusted her enough to share with her even though it was a source of deep-seated insecurity and self-doubt and she used it as a weapon against her. It was a horrible, underhanded thing to do to someone you care about and it’s a profound abuse of the trust that gave you the knowledge you used to hurt them in the first place. It doesn’t matter if she didn’t mean it (which isn’t even an absolution because the alternative to believing it is that she just wanted to hurt Sarah as badly as possible) you don’t fucking do that to your friends.
She did do it it delberately, on purpose, it was no accident. I believe thst what you mean it wasnt calculated. Thats different
Friendship… OVER!
Fatality.
The things we say when we’re all flustered, upset and angry
yyyyup.
Oooh! I think someone just got through Sarah’s incredibly thick skin.
uh yeah Sarahs skin is about as thick as toilet paper. Its not all that hard to upset her. If you hide from people and push anyone who tries to be nice to you away, your skin is not thick. I fact i would say that Joyce has a thicker skin. Dealing with everything she has gone through while still trying to be nice to everyone. Point is the strip shouldn’t be called dumbing of age, it should be called: Go to a Therapist!
They exist in webcomics now! Blame Jeph!
True
Sarah’s skin isn’t thick, she just rarely allows people the ability to harm her.
And this is why.
Good job Joyce.
Oh Snap! :/
Yep.
Someone said it best a couple days ago: Joyce really has no middle ground does she? It’s either grace of an angel or heart-seeking jabs.
That’s true, isn’t it. Comes from resisting any feeling of anger, which makes the anger fester and come out sideways at the wrong targets.
She’s also really unwilling to examine the way her relationship with Becky has changed, and that’s helping drive her turmoil. It was Sarah pointing out that Becky’s probably hurting from mere proximity that set her off in the first place.
Joyce was already twitching when she met Becky at the door. I think it’s a fallback from “The Revelation” to Becky earlier.
Okay, Joyce, that? That was an incredibly shitty thing to do. There’s not a lot of ways you can make up for saying something like that.
OVER THE LINE
I’m not sure the line is even on the same planet anymore.
OOOOOHHHHH
I have never understood how anyone can have any sympathy for Sarah. She’s a snitch.
Sarah’s roommate’s damaging grief spiral and illegal drug use was preventing Sarah from studying or sleeping in her own room. Even if Sarah didn’t give a damn about Dana–and she did, or she would have notified the university and not Dana’s dad–she’s not required to sacrifice herself rather than “snitch”.
Dana was on a drug fueled binge that was probably going to lead to her death. Sarah did the right thing, even if everyone assumes she was doing it for selfish reasons.
If she was “snitch” she’d have turned Dana in the first day in the dorm. Not like the girl was ever subtle about her drug habit, and it only got worse after her mother died.
Sarah was far more lenient than I ever would have been.
Yeah, Sarah should’ve just let Dana self-destruct until one day she overdosed on something and wound up dead. Soo much better than being a snitch.
Are we reading the same comic? Because I don’t think we are.
If by snitch you mean a rational human being who puts people’s actual well being ahead of some vague and baseless sense of solidarity against authority then yeah I guess she’s a snitch :\
Well that was mega uncalled for. Joyce saw the line and pole vaulted over it.
We know Sarah really cares about Joyce, so I guess now we get to find out just how deep that care and concern goes and how long it takes Sarah to realize that this was something tossed out in the heat of the moment and that Joyce really *didn’t* mean it.
I think she does know it. But even so it hurts.
Damn. Even when Sarah is genuinely empathetic, she gets shat on. YOU ARE NOT HELPING HER MISANTHROPY, JOYCE!
Low blow, Joyce. Low blow.
Whoa. This seems…out of character for Joyce, and frankly doesn’t make sense in the context of the narrative; Joyce knows that Sarah didn’t just want Dana kicked to the curb, so it doesn’t make sense to me that she would say something like this referring to the situation with Becky.
Granted, people are prone to saying things in anger that don’t necessarily make sense; making sense when you’re angry just gets in the way.
I wouldn’t say it’s out of character. Joyce is highly stressed, and is forced to deal with a situation that really doesn’t have a simple solution. I think she’s misinterpreting things that Sarah is saying. Joyce doesn’t handle nuanced criticism that well, so she is really interpreting Sarah’s statements as “Let’s kick Becky out ASAP”. It’s understandable that she would snap. (Though not justifiable I would stress. Certainly not by saying what she said)
Notice how Joyce isn’t giving answers to any of Sarah’s statements. She followed a sudden train of paranoia (Sarah wants to kick Becky out) all the way to the end of the track.
And another face for the collection!…actually I’m not that happy about this one. Dammit Joyce…
Prediction: Reality will quickly swing right back at Joyce in a way that she couldn’t possibly put the blame on Sarah. At the party, Becky will accidentally cross a physical or emotional boundary or will say something to Joyce or someone else to instantly make Joyce sadly and finally realize how absolutely correct Sarah is about all of this.
Pendulumming of Age.
Pendulumming of Age sounds like it would involve a lot of blunt force trauma, given this cast’s propensity for self-inflicted wounds.
Prediction: It might also involve the sweater.
I can’t believe Joyce has kept that damn thing.
WHAT SARAH DID SOMETHING TO DINAH HOW DARE SHE oh Dana okay carry on.
And Sarah was doing so good at giving a rational, not-shouting argument
I thought the last strip was bad enough with Joyce once again thinking Sarah hates her, but this is just too much.
Sarah’s my favourite forever and every emotional moment that slips through her armour hits twice as hard. I hope she doesn’t decide to push Joyce away after that angry outburst.
At the same time, I do think pressing on kicking out Becky was a sore spot, even if she has good intentions for doing so.
There is no Dana…only Zuul!
Oh, man. After an attack like that, Sarah is going to burn the drawbridge and wall herself up inside her mental castle. That’s how she deals with pain, by walling off the cause. When Jacob poked at her weak points, she walled him off. Now, she’ll do the same with Joyce. Someone’s gonna need an emotional Grond to get through to her.
I think Sarah get kicked off the guest list…
i really thought joyce said “you want to lick her out”
BREAKING NEWS! SHOTS WERE FIRED IN INDIANA UNIVERSITY, THE SUSPECT IS KNOW AS JOYCE BROWN AND IT’S POSSIBLE SHE ALREADY HAS KILLED ONE STUDENT.
Hilarious. School shootings are such a hoot, let me tell you. One day you have a normal school day go into lockdown for hours, the next you can’t even stand being on campus.
I misread Dana as Dina and was sitting there thinking “When did Sarah tey to get rid of Dina.”
So no PARTY?
Oh, we’re not going to cancel such fertile ground for drama, but Sarah may be studying in some library very far away when it happens.
*sighs* Joyce… want some mayo to go with the salad for your foot?
No, Joyce, if Sarah REALLY wanted to get rid of Becky she’d rat her out to the school administration which, as a bonus, would get rid of you, too.
I don’t understand why so many people are guilting Sarah for getting rid of Dana, even if they DO believe she just did it to stop Dana from ruining her life. Because you know what you call someone who ruins your life through careless actions? Toxic, and neither Sarah nor anyone should have to deal with that sort of people.
I totally agree. Didn’t she try to get her help at first but it didn’t work so she resorted to what she had to. What else was Sarah supposed to do?
I agree. Sarah told Raidah how depressed and drug-dependent Dana was getting, and asked if maybe Dana should talk to someone, I assume meaning a therapist. But since Dana always tried to pretend she was ok when she was with Raidah & company, Raidah just said that Dana seemed ok and not to worry. So at that point, there wasn’t much Sarah could do. If she talked to an RA, she’d be ratting her out and possibly the authorities might have got involved and Dana would have got kicked out. Involving her dad meant bypassing all that–Dana still got taken out of school, but she wasn’t kicked out and presumably could even come back when she got well.
Yikes.
Awwwwkwaaaard.
288 comments, and apparently nobody’s noticed that Joyce is still freaked out by the idea of Becky being IN LOVE WITH HER, which Sarah oh-so-helpfully made impossible for Joyce to tuck back in the “la la la not listening” part of her head.
Ahh, you people, you never fail to disappoint.
I wish I could say the same. I mean come on, posting anonymously just to boast about how you’re superior than everyone else is kinda lame.
Made funnier by the fact that he’s wrong about it not being brought up already.
(may 17 panel spoil. sort of)
Sarah : “…I guess it’s time to go watch Monkey & Dexter with Walky to cope. It worked for Dorothy, why the hell not me.”
Also, so much finger pointing. Let’s just enjoy the
train wreckstory, shall we ?That’s still Joyce + Sarah’s room in that panel. Seeing as there’s a poster that has crosses of some sort on it. There’s also a picture of what looks like a younger version of Mr. and Mrs. Brown on the wall too.
Uh, my bad, I thought only Walky had that poster.
I guessed this was coming, I just… really hoped it wouldn’t hit this hard. Damn, Joyce. That was brutal. And low.
Wooow, Joyce. Perpetuating your denial over your best friend’s crush at the expense of your friendship with Sarah really isn’t a smart plan.
Given that Sarah just seriously acceded to Joyce’s sarcastic suggestion that they kick Becky out in yesterday’s strip, I’m not surprised Joyce is pissed. She’s doing the best she can and now it’s somehow hurting the person she’s trying to help, and Sarah’s proposed solution is…what?
I bet Joyce has been thinking about that story about Dana ever since she found out Becky’s dad was after her.
Except she didn’t, she was being sarcastic. All she was acceding to was the “Becky should not keep living here long term” part with sarcasm reserved for the kicking her out on the street part.
BUT THE EMOTIONS
I have to say, I’m kinda like Sarah in a way. And a comment like this, from the ONE person who I seemed to have any sort of friendship bond with? This would absolutely ruin me. Like, straight up done.
That was a killing blow, and one I’m really, really shocked to see Joyce go for. If she has a friend in Sarah after this, it would be a long time building up that bridge again.
Sh….
So you didn’t want to hear what Sarah said because it hurt so much, gripped the next best thing to throw at her … and you knew the seconds the words left your mouth that you totally fucked up there.
Too late. Now what?
Wow, that was messed up, and that’s coming from a Ruth fan
Ruth/Sarah 2016!
Joyce’s upbringing ill-prepared her for conversations in reality, where a single problem can have more than two solutions.
Whether I’m referring to her Internet upbringing or her Catholic upbringing is an exercise for the student.
#8 joyce is not catholic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFmuO6xJ36g
Joyce is now toast.
I think people are missing something here. They think since Sarah is right, it’s okay to be an asshole. And Sarah’s basically been a gigantic sarcastic asshole to Joyce from the very start. Was she right about what she said? Probably. But Joyce, while sheltered, knew that Sarah didn’t like her, and constantly put up with her biting sarcasm and eventually that will wear a person down no matter how nice they try to be. So yeah, Joyce, that was low. But god knows that Sarah has not been making it easy for Joyce.
Why do you think Sarah doesn’t like Joyce? I think it’s been made pretty clear that Sarah, despite her prickliness and her unwillingness to let her emotions show, cares very deeply for Joyce, her “little sis” as Sarah herself has said.
I was confused at first because I read “Dina”, and I couldn’t think what Joyce was talking about. You kinda have to go way back to remember who Dana was…
I don’t even like Joyce that much, but I’m with her on this one. It’s the way she goes about things that’s the problem.
I forget who Dana is
I’m detecting Super Saiyan Sarah