Hey, Dumbing of Age Book 7 is now available for sale in the online store! Usually the new book goes up Thanksgiving each year just in time for the holiday shopping season, but somebody’s got two thumbs and a sudden $800 car repair bill, so say hello to Buyable Book 7 a whole two days early!
As per usual, you can buy Book 7 plain or pay a little extra to get it doodled and signed in by me!
If Book 7 doesn’t satisfy, try out the Six Book Combo deal and the new magnet set that went up yesterday. A Seven Book Combo Deal will happen quite a bit later, probably after the shopping season.
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“oh dang, ya watched the YouTubes, too? didja subscribe to StuntsAmazing, that’s Marcie’s fave”
Weird thing is, the channel in question was about cake decorating. Amber picked up some weird things from their frosting piping techniques.
AG practiced to be the best at everything.
I require a gif of AG playing DDR now.
Then you find out Amber’s also a Logan Paul fan. Darkest timeline!
That hissing noise I just made was not human.
That was hilarious! Kudos.
Top Ten Anime Fights
There’s a lot of parcour tutorials on YouTube, which could certainly account to some of Amber’s skills.
Oh shit. Shits going down
Yup. Sal is dead in panel 5. That is a kick to the throat. That is game over right there. Even if the throat is not totally crushed (causing death from lack of oxygen) then it isn’t attached fully any more. The blood from the torn tissue will fill the lungs with blood and Sally drowns.
Looks like a kick to the chest to me.
Which, y’know, unfun, but (most of the time, hopefully) survivable.
Makes it a bastard to get up though.
Looks like the lower end of the sternum. Sal is figuring out how to breathe again.
Yep, sternum is NO FUN.
Other unfun places to get hit – gut, knees, throat, ribs, nose, groin, solar plexus, shins, and I’m sure there’s more.
Seriously, best way to make sure someone goes down so you can run? Solar plexus. Knock them there as hard as they can and they’ll be pissed as hell when they get up, but it’ll be a while before that happens. During which time you will hopefully have gotten away and called for help.
Sort of depends. Sal is wearing riding leathers, which are generally made to protect you from a wide variety of things. They usually have a fair amount of padding, so blunt force is very slightly absorbed.
…though, yes, breathing after an impact like that is going to suck, no matter what.
Yeah, I think the bluish triangle with a line down the center, just below Sal’s face, is Sal’s jacket not Amber’s foot.
Right. Amber is wearing brown shoes/boots, not blue.
Willis has explicitly said that no one is going to die in this comic.
Any mentions of vegetative life support or quadriplegics? o_0
The cited reason for the “no deaths – at least not for major characters” rule was that because of the extremely-stretched-out timescale in the comic (one chapter = one day, and that can run for months in real-time), the rest of the comic would be spent with the characters in mourning if someone were to die.
Quoting another cartoon: “It’s amazing what you can live through.”
it really is.
No, Amber, you are the villain.
And then, Amber was a zombie.
None is the villain or hero. Both are victims of their parents, and both are trying to hurt each other to vent off. Each is the “villain” of the other.
No, Sal hasn’t been the villain for 5 years.
Sal has a stalker is all.
Sal is still the villain to Amber, who is wrong.
When Amber was young, she watched the motorcycles and she said to dad “I want to be on the Harleys daddy.”
Dad said “No! You will BE KILL BY SALS”
There was a time when Amber believed him. Then as she got oldered she stopped. But now in the college courtyard base of the IUB she knew there were Sals.
Oof. Yeah. I guess every villain is the hero of their own story.
I kinda get the feeling like Amber isn’t gonna finish the year out.
If we ever see the end of the school year, that is.
Oh snap. Where are we currently in the year? Have we Even hit Thanksgiving yet?
We haven’t even hit Halloween.
Oh snap. Things haven’t even gotten Spooky yet!?
I still await seeing the DoA characters in their Halloween costumes with bated breath.
Sal provoked the fight and threw the first punch…that’s no hero. She’s breaking her promise to her best friend to not to resort to violence. She’s the villain. Argue society created her, but not that she’s a good guy in this story.
I wasn’t commenting on Sal on this. But after rereading the last few strips and the link they posted, @Bagge is right. Amber doesn’t see herself as a hero. Not entirely anyways. But she’s still living in this comic book word where Sal is Amber’s big bad.
1. Amber was the one who put her firsts up first. She took the aggressive stance.
2. They went for each other at the same time. Sal’s fist connected first.
3. Amber DID stalk Sal.
I can’t help thinking Amber put her fists up to protect herself from Sal when Sal made the big reveal with the glove. She didn’t go after Sal until Sal issued a challenge to fight.
Not even herself – I think she tried to protect ETHAN – because in Amber’s mind they are back in that convenience store. Sal even called her on it, for all the good that made them.
Of course, after that both Sal and Amber are basically taking out their grievances with their parents on each other. Sal yesterday and Amber today.
This comment confused me greatly until I remembered Americans have a different date for Thanksgiving.
Ours is in two days
No.
We’re currently somewhere in mid-October, if I recall. (Someone else can probably pull up the exact day.)
It’s October 14th. Dumbing of Age Timeline
I’m pretty sure she disagrees with you.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2017/comic/book-7/04-the-do-list/afraid-2/
You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.
Maybe get over yourself a little Ambs…..I mean oh how sad! I guess.
She’s gone a little off her rocker
She was never on it to begin with
Because she can defy gravity!
Well, Sal was the victim of emotional neglect, while Amber was the victim of emotional abuse and seeing her mother get physically abused (I’m not 100% certain whether Bongolaine ever physically abused Amber herself, though). Not that either one would know that about the other.
Well, Sal knows now, since Amber just told her.
Rock Lee training montage
Yeah, Amber’s reasons are so… petty. Not to say her abuse is petty, but all of that is clearly not Sal’s fault at all, and her using it as justification to beat Sal down? Amber really sucks right now. She needs help, and she needs to be held accountable for forcing a confrontation that is going to hurt everybody.
Regular reminder that mental illness never, ever excuses abuse.
Sal’s reasons aren’t entirely noble either, to be fair. Amber didn’t get Sal sent away. Sal got Sal sent away. She got dealt a bad hand, but she’s the one who sat down to play to begin with, even if her reasons were noble.
Sure, but present day? Present conflict? This is Amber’s fault. Amber stalked a woman who didn’t even know she existed, pretty much. Amber/Amazigirl repeatedly attacked her (yes, it was AG, but Amber was the driving force back then). Amber has forced what is happening now.
And at least Sal is directly bitter about Amber stabbing her in the hand, and about Amber’s privilege. Amber is bitter about a thing Sal has long since learned from. Sal is bitter about the thing Amber is still doing.
[Michael_Scott_thank_you.gif]
In her mind, Amber is still in that convenience store. She’s built her entire worldview, her internal narrative, around Sal being a comic book supervillan. If Sal wasn’t evil after all, then Amber’s actions would be unjustified, but she knows she’s right, therefore Sal must be evil. From that context, Amber’s reaction to Sal makes sense. From an objective outside viewpoint, it really doesn’t.
Amber is not mentally well and needs help she’s not getting. She’s only going to deteriorate further without outside intervention.
Late to the conversation, but yes, this! Especially “In her mind, Amber is still in that convenience store.” What strikes me about this fight is that Amber is treating Sal as an idea rather than as a human, even as her fists and feet collide with very real flesh. Sal wanted to fight the *person* who disabled her hand and then stalked her. Amber is barely seeing Sal as a person at all. It’s disturbing! I really hope that, in the end, both girls get some help.
No one picked up on the “bad hand” that Sal was dealt? I thought the comments were full of astute readers. Sigh.
The literal bad hand was certainly Amber’s fault (in the immediate sense). Beyond that I have nothing to say.
Amber is putting too much emphasis on the breaking point and not the build up. Her mind breaking, her dad being abusive, she unhappiness, all that was in play before the incident with Sal, the robbery was just the point where she couldn’t pretend anymore.
Her sense of values and self are all messed up because of Blaine’s influence and she hasn’t wanted to, or been stable enough, to look inside herself and start sorting things out.
Don’t get me wrong, I feel for Amber. I’m also frustrated with her clinging to these narratives about Sal. Sal may be escalating a situation where she’s been threatened and harassed, but Amber? Amber’s beating down an innocent woman as personal therapy.
Sal did kind of pick this fight, though. I mean, they kind of both did, and either of them could have stopped it happening by backing off, but Sal’s the one who threw down the gauntlet (pretty much literally).
Sal had pretty good reasons for wanting a fight at this point, though—Amber’s been after her for weeks now making her life hell, including actually attacking her, mocking her over being “the black girl with the record”, and generally being a real dick.
Sal was wrong to start the fight, but this is very much a provoked sort of thing.
Wait, what? When the hell’d that happen? I thought Sal and Amazi-Girl got along pretty well, while Sal and Amber straight-up never interacted at college.
Back when they first met, Amazi-Girl was a real asshole to Sal—and both she and Amber agreed that it was the right thing to do, so it’s not a, “Amazi-Girl was bad, not me” situation. That particular mockery was after Sal had saved AG’s life.
And while Amazi-Girl has learned that what they did was wrong, Amber seems to stand by it all. Evidence: This comic.
That’s because Amber has made a complete split between herself and Amazi-girl, making her officially and certifiably insane. This is dissociative personality disorder being rather realistically portrayed. Which is why I’m having issues finding Amber to be fully responsible for her actions here. There’s a difference between having mental issues and being completely insane.
Um, yeah, one is an actual problem Amber has and the other is you pushing ugly ableist rhetoric. Are you saying anybody with full-blown DID is “certifiably insane”? Literally step off.
It is Mexico, which is where I’m from? And I’m not entirely convinced it shouldn’t be?
Also, um, I kinda’ suffer from it and I was hospitalized, and it was literally the best decision that was ever made for me. Just putting that out there.
Okay, fair, but “certifiably insane” isn’t an actual diagnosis. As for it causing this, no, Amber is acting pretty independently of her DID here.
I can tell you from experience that there is no way to act independent from DID. It basically informs your every action. Amber doesn’t need a therapist, she needs an institution and medication.
@Maki: Seriously??? She needs an institution and medication???
Look. Therapy CAN be plenty to help with DID. Learning to work with your others and generally develop healthy coping mechanisms is a wonderful way to help. Medications? Not so much. A lot of the medications used can have negative side effects and kill the part of your brain that is creativity. And one of those in my Fiancee’s system was the direct result of institutionalization.
The only approved way of “fixing” DID is by reintegration, which isn’t the Only way to live with it without it causing severe issues.
And you’re right. There is no way to act “independent from DID”. This is a direct result of the memory loss that Amber has experienced as a result of her DID. She and AG aren’t interacting or sharing experiences and THAT IS THE PROBLEM.
@Rogue she needs an institution because she is committing violent crimes on a regular basis, including right now. She has proven incapable of self-care, and is a danger to herself and others.
@MatthewTheLucky That wasn’t the reason given. The reason given was DID.
I’m still against forced institutionalization, though I recognize that it’s improved a lot. I’m more okay with it from a “She commits violent crimes because of her mental issues” perspective than from a “She has mental issues” perspective.
The idea of insanity is a tricky one. Generally speaking, it has to do with psychosis – disorders that cause intense delusions accompanied by hallucinations. But guess what? Even folks who have a lot of those have their fair share of time with a clear picture of reality. Just because it’s often deeply distorted that doesn’t mean that they’re constantly separated from it. Also, I’m pretty sure if you asked folks with schizophrenia and other psychotic disorders, they’d be pretty miffed if you called them ‘insane’.
Dissociation is not insanity. Dissociation is a normal coping mechanism to handle stressful situations, but when deep psychological trauma is involved it can cause strange things to happen. In terms of the splitting of self from more severe dissociation, it can range from just having someone in your head you talk to (and who remains somewhat present in your consciousness for quite a while) to full loss of memories and awareness of what other parts of you are doing. I know a couple of folks like that. I would not describe them as insane. Most folks who actually know them would not.
Also, just because it may be considered that in Mexico doesn’t mean it’s remotely acceptable. Various conditions have been reclassified over time, particularly as folks get better at accepting the basic, for lack of a better word, ‘humanity’, of the folks dealing with them. The fact that their problems don’t make them somehow lesser or unworthy of the respect you would grant someone else.
for the record, I’ve hallucinated and had non-trivial delusions before as a result of stress and I’ve definitely had folks in my head with whom I could hold extended conversations and who generally remained static and present for months at a time. Borderline Personality Disorder (aka the ‘kind of has a little of everything’ condition) is a time. So I definitely am not fond of calling other people insane. I might refer to myself that way sometimes but I sure as hell wouldn’t be cool if someone else referred to me in that way.
A little more info: I’ve lived in a Latin American country and I recognize that the lingo tends to be a lot heavier on ableism/homophobia/etc than in the US. It was one of the things that really bothered me when I was there.
Um. Being able to construct a model of someone you know well enough and interacting with that someone in your.head is a skill, not disassociation. Disassociation to the extent of developing multiple personalities is not a normal coping mechanism; it’s something the human mind sometimes does to protect itself from extreme and continuing stress. Thankfully, being subjected to those kinds of continuing horrific conditions is relatively rare. Amber is not a realistic depiction of it for a number of reasons, but I don’t think it really matters.
I can’t agree with petty. Messed up. Wrong. Tragic. Not petty.
Sure, Blaine is the root cause of everything, not Sal, but Sal was the trigger for things getting worse and she couldn’t deal with Blaine then. She was a kid and he still had legal rights over her.
Therapy, so much therapy is needed.
Amber is doing what is clinically called identifying with the abuser. That’s when you take on the behaviors your abuser did to you and wind up perpetrating it on others. If this isn’t dealt with, then that person becomes abusive in every relationship they enter both romantic and platonic.
“And nobody on the campus, no biker that there is or was…is ever gonna bring me down!”
Sal:”I hope you step on a LEGO!”
Danny:”(OMG, girls, STOP IT!)”
I am proud of you embracing your own identity, Amber, but you and Sal are going to be in a huge trouble if any authority catches you two, and I doubt you will get a pass as Deku and Bakugo in the recent season of BNHA.
**STANDING FUCKING OVATION**
(Don’t get me wrong, I love Sal, but, this was powerful. It speaks to me on a few levels, and, after spending the last few days rehashing some past issues of my own in order to finally put them to rest, this really made my day!)
I know that Amber is proving something to herself here, and I applaud her self-determination and drive, but I still can’t help but side with Sal here. Who has been permanently scarred physically and emotionally. I am NOT downplaying the awfulness of Amber’s situation here but she ATTACKED Sal after the situation was defused and Sal was being arrested. Like I get that this is complicated, and this is escalating to the point that I will be SHOCKED if Amber or Sal do not get suspended or expelled by the school at this point, but this is not going to end well for anyone involved.
They were both children. The knife was introduced by Sal to begin with. It sucks that this happened to both of them, but they are both equally at fault for what happened, and also equally as understandable in why they did what they did.
… nnnno, Sal never attacked anyone with the knife, and she was restrained and helpless when Amber attacked her. Let’s not play for equivalencies that aren’t there. What matters is they were both children.
She did attack Ethan with the knife. She didn’t end up using it, but she did hold him hostage at knife point.
Sal held a knife to Ethan’s throat.
explain to me the logic that Sal is at fault for being stabbed while being RESTRAINED. Sal might have some fault in traumatizing Amber, but absolutely nothing she ever did merits being permanently disabled in her right hand
You’ve gotta really do some mental gymnastics to somehow say that Amber was anywhere in the right to stabbed someone restrained or that it was both their faults. Like, you can’t even justify Ethan doing that after the fact and he was the one held hostage.
Yeah, this. My take on this entire mess is that yes, Amber was provoked, but she was in no way *justified*. And hell, most of the provocation wasn’t even provided by Sal! Blaine-the-everliving-douchenozzle made Amber’s life a living hell and actively prodded Amber til she snapped and stabbed Sal.
My opinion is that the only real monster here is Blaine. In the original stabbing, Sal was no perfect angel, but did not deserve to be stabbed while in police custody. Amber was a deeply wounded young girl who needed a truckload of therapy, and was absolutely in the wrong for stabbing Sal. All of those things can be true. Come to think of it, truckloads of therapy for everyone!
This fight today? I’m just finding it cringeworthy from start to finish, and I’m hoping for a resolution with as little fallout as possible. It ain’t happening, but hope springs eternal.
Sure, I can do that.
Sal’s knife. Sal held Ethan at knife point in front of Amber.
Amber retaliated. Not saying she made some brilliant move doing that, but one teen’s “make a horrible decision while backed into a corner” led directly to another teen’s “make a horrible decision while backed into a corner”.
Amber stabbed Sal because Blaine berated her until she snapped for not defending Ethan. That was not some warped sense of justice, self defence, or defence of a third party and so, yeah, Sal’s definitely the victim in the stabbing, much the way Amber and Ethan were her’s in the robbery. The robbery was fun like that.
You skipped a few steps. Like when Sal was already captured by the police and everybody was already outside the store and Amber grabbed the knife out of a police officers hands and ran at Sal and probably would have done even more if the police didn’t restrain Amber after that . Blaine backed Amber into a mental/emotional corner. For Sure. But saying that Sal backed Amber into a corner is cutting out the whole middle part.
“Sal held Ethan at knife point in front of Amber.
Amber retaliated” you make it sounds as if Amber took the knife out of Sal’s hand and retaliated right then and that’s absolutely not what happened.
Amber stabbed Sal WAY LONG after Ethan, herself and everyone was reasonably out of danger. Amber might as well have attacked Sal in her sleep in this retaliation, because Sal was prone and vulnerable and AMBER WAS NO LONGER IN DANGER.
How, exactly, was Amber backed into a corner? Sal was pinned to the ground by police at that point; the corner is long gone.
Backed into a mental and emotional corner and by Blaine.
That’s a reason to stab Blaine, not Sal.
i mean realistically the ones most to blame are Linda and Blaine
This is kind of an awful stance to take, in my opinion. Yes their parents were awful to them, and put them in desperate situations. But why does this exempt Amber and Sal from the fact that they have made choices during these events that were bad choices?
It’s been bugging me that a few people in the comment section are regularly saying that “Niether are the real bad guys, it’s Blaine and Linda’s fault entirely!” Frankly Blaine and Linda are not here punching Sal and Amber. They did terrible things yes, but we have plenty of examples of people put through terrible situations who did not choose to go these routes.
At what point IS it someones fault for their actions if you can shift the blame to the person who abused them in the past? (Not saying the abuser is free of blame, they have blame for the Abuse.)
I mean, what if we see Linda’s backstory later, and it turns out the bad parenting and racism is a product of her parents being awful bad people, will we no longer blame Linda for all of Sal’s wrong doings and start to blame Sal’s grandparents?
Sal and Amber are 18 now. They were 12ish at the time of the robbery. IMO, they are definitely not responsible for their actions when they were 12, especially since we’ve seen that they were both clearly being driven over the edge by abusive parents. Now? Both of them are barely adults, they’re out from under their abuser’s thumbs for the first time, and they are reacting badly to repressed trauma.
Yes, they’re adults and therefore responsible for getting themselves some damn therapy, but given the circumstances I give them both a pass until they get their feet under them a bit more.
It’s basically the Joyce situation. They’re hurting other people with their actions, but they’ve been given no context that will let them avoid doing so. It’s on them to fix that, but at the same time I cut them some slack until after they realize the problem and have a chance to address it.
I said MOST to blame not the ONLY ones to blame
Also when i said that I was specifically talking about the incident at the gas station when they were 13 year olds making desperate decisions placed upon them by their shitty parents, not whatever this bullshit going on right now is. They are of course both at fault for this fight right now, and as I have made clear repeatedly Amber is to me absolutely the worse actor here because of so many reasons I don’t feel like reminding
I’m 50/50 on this. Neither are paticularly noble here but Amber cannot justify building Sal up as this villian after stabbing her while restrained. That was cowardly. She shouldn’t shoulder to much for it because as you mentioned they were children, but this false identity she’s crafted for Sal is dangerous and is justifying this beat down. Amber’s been shown to have a problem stopping with people she sees as villians and Sal isn’t one of those people.
I think this is exactly the conclusion we were supposed to arrive at. Thank you!
Partly. I think a lot of people are taking it farther and making Amber 100% the villain. The monster she thinks she is.
I don’t think that’s the intent.
It’s been justifying her entire worldview (and Amazi-Girl’s existence) for five years. Amber will reject any reality where Sal isn’t evil, because it doesn’t fit the narrative she’s built herself to make sense of what happened.
Okay, so this time Dorothy might come up with the idea of suggesting Amber talk to a professional.
Look that night sucked for both of you, okay?
hey amber i think you got a little uhh
chocolate
or somethin’ there
Red Velvet and a little boy’s scowl…
Okay, but the profile picture combined with the comment got me really confused for a sec.
Butt chocolate
Damn… she didn’t even go full “Super Sayian Amber”
This is what I am talking about though, while life can suck for everyone now and then, it would be naive to think that other people don’t have problems that might be just as bad as your if not worse. Now I am NOT telling anyone how to feel, just something to consider.
yo good job quoting wicked and projecting your issues with Blaine onto the girl you stabbed, stalked, harrassed and demeaned for several weeks now Dipshit. Goddamn
i really do sympathize with Amber. As a long sufferer of suicidal attempts and ideation i’m even proud of what she’s overcome. But I’mma be real with you chief, this aint it.
So Amber is Elphaba in this?
Would this make Sal Glinda?
Either way I’m assuming that Dorothy’s gonna disarm Amber by tossing water in her face.
*slow clap*
I needed that chuckle, thank you.
Took me a second.
Yeah I’m hating on Amber right at this moment. Not in general, most of the time I’m sympathetic, but right NOW she’s freaking terrible. This is not a victory. I hope she gets in all sorts of trouble for this
I find it interesting that it seems people are giving Sal a pass, but ready to leave Amber to her fate. I am not saying Amber isn’t being kind of a dingus, but Sal ain’t exactly innocent either.
what’s Sal’s crime in this situation? The worst thing she’s done is being goaded into a fight she wasn’t looking for. She approached Amber to verbally reproach her for lying, which she’s 1000% entitled to since Amber has been lying to her for weeks.
Yeah I’m giving Sal a pass because she was provoked.
Before I respond, you are entitled to your opinion and I respect it, though I disagree.
As for what Sal’s crime have to do with the situation? Well, EVERYTHING. If Sal didn’t try and hold up that store, this fight wouldn’t be taking place. Sal believed her cause justified people getting robbed and even threatening people. Now I will give her that she has tried to reform… well in her own way, but when she lets her anger get the best of her, people get hurt, Marcie is proof of this again and again.
So no, I won’t be giving Sal a pass because she could have left the past in the past, but she decided to pursue this fight as much as Amber did.
If it helps though, I ain’t giving Amber one either, as what you said was mostly right. I disagree with the “entitled” part, as no one is entitled to act like a jackass.
“If Sal didn’t try and hold up that store this fight wouldn’t be taking place.”
You have an interesting notion of responsibility.
Tell me I’m wrong though. Would they have a reason to fight if Sal decided to just go home that one night instead of the store, or if she left the store when the Cashier gave her an out?
You’re wrong. You may as well blame Leland for this fight.
Seriously, by this logic, this fight is Linda’s fault for stealing Sal’s money.
Only, wait, that’d be ludicrous.
I mean….I’m completely behind blaming Leland for it, and anything bad that’s ever happened ever. He was a little kid, but like he nearly killed Marcie.
Believe what you wish, I will just enjoy the thought of a future where Sal was not stupid.
The part you might be missing is that you can’t blame choices in the past for actions taken in the present. Each is it’s own seperate instance and should be judged by that. Just because Sal robbed a store and traumatized Amber doesn’t mean Amber has no responsibility for engaging in this fight. Just because Amber stalked and stabbed Sal doesn’t mean Sal’s not at fault for throwing the first punch. Trying to backdate blame like that creates a never ending chain where suddenly Linda’s parents are responsible for not instilling enough values to not make Linda a racist and a bad parent or maybe it’s Marcie’s fault for even being injured and needing money in the first place.
Thank you!
Obviously it’s ultimately the fault of the British.
Then let’s ended with this, they both are at fault and they both suck.
What? Both the British and the Americans?
“Leaving the past in the past”… Amber’s been stalking and harassing Sal as of a few months ago. Like, there is a lot that Amber has done to Sal very recently that is tied into this as well, but namely stabbing her in the hand, knowing she did so, and then stalking, assaulting, and then manipulating her later into fighting goons at night has exacerbated this confrontation more than it ever needed to be.
You’re not wrong. Amber has been a class A dingleberry, but as I said before, it is about choice. And in the end, they both choose this fight, and I have a feeling the consequences for their actions will be quite severe.
Now here is a question I have for you (or anyone really) Will they finally realize that they are their worst enemy and actually try and do something about it, or will they both continue to play the victim and let it rule their lives?
I think the issue with that logic is that, while correct, it would be impossible to foresee. There is no way for Sal to predict ‘if I attempt to rob this store, 6 years from now I could end up fighting one of the customers who ended up stalking me and dresses up as a superhero… etc’.
You can blame her for traumatising Ethan and Amber; you might even be able to claim her stabbing was a direct result of her actions, if still unjustified.
But it’s disingenuous to try and blame someone for a specific scenario they couldn’t predict, and that has many other factors (Blaine being a big one).
oh Jesu, you’re holding THE ROBBERY over Sal’s head in this situation right now? The robbery was five years ago and Sal has already more than paid her due for her bad decisions.
If we follow your logic, Sal ought to be punished for a shitty decision she made as a child for the rest of her life.
oh Jesu, you’re holding THE stabbing over Amber’s head in this situation right now? The robbery was five years ago and Amber has already more than paid her due for her bad decisions.
If we follow your logic, Amber ought to be punished for a shitty decision she made as a child for the rest of her life.
I don’t see how they are.
They’re holding the stalking, harassment, and assault over Amber’s head.
Seeing as she shows no remorse for said shitty decision I’m not super inclined to move past it no. Like, Sal took responsibility for her mistakes and made amends with the person she harmed. Amber stalked and harassed the person she harmed.
I think you’re kind of forgetting that that wasn’t pure ill will, it was what Amber thought she had to do. To put it drastically, to survive.
Doesn’t change what she did, but it does change the picture.
Sal has every right to be angry at Amber and by no means has to forgive her for, but we do have to keep in mind just how and why Amber is messed-up.
BBCC: I do blame Linda for the robbery. I blame Sal for bringing Ethan into it.
Not all of it was Amber/AG trying to survive. It seems pretty clear from this conversation that all of Amber’s training was to make sure that she would win the fight the next time it happened, and AG was there to facilitate that fight. Stalking Sal had nothing to do with keeping an eye on a threat. She just wanted a fight. A lot of AG’s confrontations don’t need to escalate into a fight, but she makes it happen anyways.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-4/03-up-all-night-to-get-vengeance/my-share/
This moment? Has nothing to do with Sal being a certifiable threat. AG was just looking a reason to fight her. And the only reason she decided to fight Sal was because she thought Dorothy was going to expose her identity, so she wouldn’t get any other chance.
Amber said it herself on another day’s strip: She’s wondered nothing else about if she could take on Sal in a fair fight. Less about survival, and more about conquering her enemy.
That’s more than fair. I’m not talking about the robbery though. I’m talking about this fight and the suggestion it’s entirely Sal’s fault (as opposed to Sal AND Amber agreeing to fight, which is what actually happened) because of the robbery. I sarcastically said we may as well blame Linda for the fight, since she drove Sal to the robbery.
the final pam – honestly, in Amber’s mind, it might as well be “neccessary”. She does have some psychological problems, and they don’t usually make her sound like the most rational person.
But in the end, we don’t know for sure. So yeah, maybe she actually did everything she did for a fight later on. I don’t really believe in that, but I respect your opinion.
what Formal said: I’m holding the stalking, harassment and instigating fights over Amber’s head, not the stabbing
“Amber has already more than paid her due for her bad decisions.” How? How has Amber paid her dues for the stabbing at all? This was brought up by Sal as well, Amber has suffered none of the consequences that she should have for disabling another person
She was apparently not punished by the law, if that’s what you mean.
We know Blaine took it out on her psychologically. We know she’s been traumatized, dealing with untreated PTSD and disassociation, much though not all of which, comes from that incident.
Are we just ignoring that sal instigated this fight by asking, literally, to fight?
Like we just ignoring that in favor of the hate on amber train? And the fact that Sal LITERALLY just asked her what happened to her afterwards?
Yeah?
Okay cool just making sure.
Also ignoring that everyone suddenly started hating on amber when she started winning the fight.
I love both these characters, but goddamn y’all jump support real fast.
Thank you!!!
It’s more that people are more motivated to comment when the person they support is losing. Shouldn’t be a big surprise.
That said, Amber is also going a LOT further than Sal did when Sal was winning.
Also, considering why Sal would want to fight Amber, and why Amber has been doing what she’s been doing to Sal, and how much each knows about the other, is important.
I don’t know where you missed the several commenters that had always been supportive of Sal in this fight from the beginning, or that Amber was asking for a fight the minute she pulled up her fists in response to Sal verbally confronting her over pulling all the stuff she did since they’ve been at college, knowing of their past, and leaving Sal in the dark.
Even if we’re not counting Amber dropping into a fighting stance, Amber also verbally stated she wanted to fight. Why does Sal’s statement make the fight her fault, but Amber’s doesn’t make it equally her’s?
People like having a good guy and a bad guy in a story. So they can support the good guy against the bad one. Truth is, in most cases, there are two bad guys fighting each other. This can lead to switching support in a bid to find the true “good guy”.
Both are idiots here. Neither of them should be supported in what they currently do.
Because Amber is apparently never responsible for anything she does ever.
nah man, if you check out my comments from previous days I’ve been against Amber from the very start
Yeah, I gotta say, the hating on Amber started long before she started winning. Before the fight even started really.
I’ve been hating on Amber for like months now.
My man people have been hating amber for ages. Throughout this entire fight, since the stalking. I’ve hated her for most of the comic since she’s simply annoying and unlikeable to me. Idk if you just haven’t been reading the comments but its definitely not just “now that she’s winning”
… I mean, Sal is escalating, yes, but she didn’t even know who Amber was when Amber and Amazigirl started stalking, attacking, and abusing her. Now all she knows is, “This girl stabbed me in the hand and is still after me for a minor crime I committed as a kid and have been paying for ever since.”
Here’s what’s key for me:
Neither of them are right to fight, but Sal is right to be angry. Amber is not.
Yeah, that last sentence is what just about sums it up for me.
Thing is, no one is ever right to be angry about shit that happened in the past, anger is fucking useless.
Sal didn’t need to pursue this fight, she did, because she’s assuming Amber was looking to hurt her. And while at times she had been, at the present she was not.
Amber didn’t need to bite into her goading and kick her ass.
The both demonized each other over a past incident, neither was right to ever do that, despite the fact that Sal held her best friend hostage, and despite the fact that amber stabbed her while she was defenseless, neither ever even attempted to practice empathy towards each other.
Anger is productive in certain situations, this was never going to be one for either of them, and neither is justified in it.
[…] neither ever even attempted to practice empathy towards each other.
Not exactly true. Go re-read Sal’s interactions with Amazi-Girl. There was a lot of empathy going one direction in those, and that’s what lead to Amazi-Girl making nice with Sal.
The break-down is that since Amber rejects “Amazi-Girl”, that empathy and growth never got back to “Amber”.
Neither is really attempting it when it matters though, which is just about a minute before shit goes down. Amber is taking this is as a chance to test herself, never mind what it might do to her current boyfriend’s sister. Sal is taking this is a chance to vent some anger, some of it justified, mind you, but still a stupid fucking reason to do all this.
The things Sal is angry about here is mostly not the past. The “You stabbed me in the hand” bit is the past sure, but the rest? Stalking and attacking her, that was all very recent. Recent enough to count as current events for Sal. If she’s not allowed to be angry about that, then I don’t even know what to tell you.
Side Notes: Sal should not be expected to know there is a significant difference between Amazi-Girl and Amber, so we can’t just push that aside as “Amber didn’t do that though.” Also, those things happened while Amber and Amazi-Girl were on speaking terms, and Amber didn’t disagree with Amaza-Girl’s actions soo… moot point?
Second Side Note: I’m saying Sal’s anger in the situation is Justified, but not her Actions. I could easily argue that Amber is the primary escalator of this anger at the moment of this fight (3 pages ago, first panel, Sal does not look ready to throw down, and is more expressing a “what the hell, I’m not going to hurt some one.” Before Amber’s line about being made at the convience store pisses her off (side note to the side note, Amber is already squared up at this point while Sal only makes a fist after this moment.)
Again, I’m of the opinion that they both are to blame for the fight happening. But Sal is the one who’s anger is Justified here. Sal was recently wronged by Amber. The last Wronging that Sal did to Amber was the robbery, which she has paid for (Being stabbed in the hand if Amber needs to directly take a part in the punishment.)
Assault with a deadly is a minor crime? I’m pretty sure Sal and Amber both would disagree.
You know things are getting heated when the mods or Willis stop the ability to do replies. Oh well it’s been fun.
A lot of that punishment sounds self-inflicted, under different pretext someone would almost think she was trying to hurt herself.
Actually, new fun prediction: Ruth ends up being the one breaking up the fight, because Dorothy goes to get her. After all, these are two of her charges beating the shit out of each other, clearly she’s the appropriate authority figure.
Or Asma.
Only if we get to actually see her rip out some femurs instead of just talking about it. It’s been eight femurless years and this webcomic is an empty promise because of it!
Dumbing of femurs
She is not the appropriate authority figure here. She received a couple weeks of training to resolve interpersonal conflicts, not to insert herself into extremely violent situations. She’s a kid, for god’s sake. The appropriate authority for this would be campus security.
She’s 20.
Sorry, that’s still “a kid” to those of us with a decade or more on top of that.
20 isn’t even old enough to drink in the US.
But it IS old enough to get married, choose to go to a war zone, and be shot at. Yay USA!
But yeah, college kids don’t realize they are still kids until they’re like 25 or so. Putting this on Ruth would be a very bad thing.
We’ve established there is no security.
Yes, but Dorothy tends to go by the rules, so from her vantage point, Ruth is the correct person to go to. I’m not disagreeing about campus security, but Dorothy would see them as the people you got to for external threats — Ross, say. These are two people who live on the same floor and to whom Ruth is the more-or-less parental replacement figure (in theory). When you see two of your siblings fighting, you go to Mommy, not the cops. The same thought process applies here.
Depending on how serious the fighting is, I might be driven to go above the parental figure. Not to mention, Dorothy’s seen Amber stab the shit out of someone. She wouldn’t be wrong to worry about this fight getting stabby any second.
Y’know, half the chat seems to think that one or the other of them is in the wrong here.
Am I the only one who read the start of their conversation and then interprets this fight as catharsis?
I’m definitely HOPING that’s what it is. But even if it is, I’m worried that other people won’t see it that way… :/
Yeah it’s catharsis for Amber only. Sal is getting beaten down because Amber needs to work through her issues.
Sal has nothing to gain from this, really. She got stabbed in the hand, and then she got the shit kicked out of her. The only thing Amber is going to gain is the realization that she has stalked and brutally beaten a fully innocent woman.
Sal might gain something if Amber is held accountable, though. A huge part of her trauma from the convenience store clearly came from the aftermath, and how Amber got away with what she did. But no. This is bad.
If Sal wins, she gets revenge on her attacker, and proves that if the fight had been fair, she would have won. That isn’t insignificant.
“Who would win” is important to Amber, who needs to prove that she is not weak. For Sal, her issue is a sense of injustice. Winning won’t help too much.
Though Sal did wonder if she could even take her in a fair fight. It’s apparently crossed her mind.
Amber will never come to that realization, because from her perspective Sal cannot be innocent. Sal must always be the Big Bad from the worst day in her life, or else the whole thing starts coming apart.
And that realization will do nothing but fuel the self-loathing that drives Amber.
Sal did throw the first punch. She has an entirely understandable grudge against the woman who stabbed her while she was restrained, unarmed, in police custody, and then was punished with…. youtube tutorials I guess, then grew up, tracked Sal down, started harassing Sal as if she was the victim in their encounter.
Sal tried to kill her friend. You can understand why she would hold a grudge right?
She tried to rob a gas station. She literally had the knife to Ethan’s throat, if killing was her goal he’d be dead.
If somone has a knife to your throat they are trying to kill you. Stopping at the last minute counts for very little.
I mean, sure, in a universe where hostages, threats of violence, etc, don’t exist, I guess a blanket statement like that could be true.
Oh please. Sal was definitely threatening to kill Ethan. Definitely putting him at great risk of death. I agree that she wasn’t actually trying to kill him, but that’s a damn fine line to draw.
If Ethan had struggled and the knife had slipped, “I wasn’t trying to kill him” wouldn’t count for much.
There’s a difference between threatening violence and literally holding a knife to someone’s throat. If I’m pissed and i say I’m gonna fuck you up if you don’t stop whatever is annoying me at the time, that’s a threat. As soon as I grab you and put a knife to your throat, I’ve already begun being violent. It would not have taken much for that hostage situation to go very very badly. I’m not saying anything that happened years ago justifies these 2 trying to beat the crap out of each other, but yesterday’s strip shows that Sal justified and minimized her crime to an extreme.
I didn’t even read yesterday as an attempt to minimize what happened, but it’s still nonsense to say a knife to the throat isn’t a threat to kill someone. Sure, Sal didn’t intend to follow up on it, but she very easily could have.
It doesn’t matter though, because Amber didn’t stab Sal out of a warped sense of justice, she did it because her father pushed her until she snapped and she went to prove she could do violence to the scary girl who was just robbing the place.
I think it was a little of both.
I think the difference between “Threatening to kill somebody” and “Trying to kill somebody” is not insignificant…
Again. Are we just ignoring that Sal instigated the fight? She wanted to fight Amber. Amber wanted to fight Sal.
I’m not sure how the heck you’re reading that Sal instigated the physical fight. She didn’t approach Amber in a friendly manner, no, but she approached Amber looking for a VERBAL confrontation. Amber immediately opted to put her fists out and goad Sal. Amber instigated the physical fight when Sal came looking for answers.
Maybe it’s my bias, but I read those fists up as a very defensive stance, not an aggressive one. In one of those panels, she’s even pushing Ethan behind her.
And Sal does bring up the idea of fighting. At the least I’d say it’s pretty mutual, with maybe an edge towards Sal instigating it.
Sal started a verbal confrontation with Amber, coming to the revelation of everything that Amber has done and instead of actually engaging Sal and responding to anything she’s saying, Amber tells her to direct her anger from good people. When Sal says that she’s not going to hurt Ethan, Amber ignores her and proceeds to tell her that she’s just the thing created that night in the gas station. Sal is clearly looking for an explanation, an answer, anything but Amber does not engage and instead acts completely hostile in the face of her own mistakes.
Yeah, it’s mutual, but one party was clearly ready to fight from the beginning and that wasn’t Sal.
This. Once amber says “I’m just the thing created that night in a gas station convenience store,” is when Sal went for a physical confrontation. But it was a page before that that Amber squared up, and nothing Amber stated from Squaring up (arguably not a hostile action but a defensive one, sure) to Sal attacking could be read as any kind of “Don’t Fight.” Just because Sal threw the first actual punch does not mean that she started the fight.
Legally speaking, it does.
@Drunk Mike Funnily enough, the law does not determine morality.
what makes it a “defensive stance”? my sensei just taught us that the stance we should start with is hands up and open (NO FISTS), while saying “I don’t want to fight”.
^This
The arm placement is what. She had them positioned so she was ready to BLOCK a punch, rather than getting ready THROW one. Not to mention how she was positioning herself in between Sal and Ethan, as if to protect him. She wasn’t moving towards Sal to attack.
Keeping your hands open instead of balled into fists might make it it seem less aggressive, but it doesn’t change the nature of the stance.
Though i think if EITHER of them had simply backed down, the other wouldn’t have thrown a punch
I’m hoping that’s where this goes it might be the only way this could not end with someone kicked out.
Agreed. Both are in the wrong in a sense… both are consensually participating in a sense… to try and just classify this as right or wrong is to miss what it means to the people involved.
Mmm… maybe? I think you might need to explain further. I just wrote – and then deleted – two detailed replies because I’m honestly not sure what you mean.
They’re both working out their issues.
I’ve seen this behavior a bunch of times. Usually from dudes.
Maybe Willis is going a different direction with this, but I wouldn’t be at all surprised if they go out drinking or some shit after they’re done kicking the shit out of each other.
Yeah it feels like everyone can’t seem to sympathize with one without putting down the other. Not to mention the double standard I’m feeling right now.
Most of everyone Yesterday: Man I hope Sal wins this, she’s been through too much.
Most of everyone Today: Fuck you Amber winning this fight isn’t victory it’s stupid, also will you stop moping no one cares.
Me:😒
Like Sal and Amber need to just stop with the fisticuffs and just have a heart to heart already. It’s not like they’re incapable making nice. They’re not even really angry at each other anymore it’s all just been raging against their parental figures for the messed up things they did to them.
just cuz you reduce different issues the same doesn’t make those actually be the same bruv
The issue is neither one of them has anything to gain from winning this fight. Sals objective was to deescalate a possible hostile encounter and she failed at that while Ambers objective was to come clean with Sal and Walky and find common ground to move forward but failed at that.
They both could have walked away or had on non-violent argument but they both went in just as hard as the other. No one wins.
Yknow, I’ll give you that one. My own preferred outcome was always for Sal to not give in to Amber’s bullshit narrative and just walk away or maybe just start sobbing so the fight itself isn’t something i’m invested in as much as I’m just pissed off at Amber in general. But yeah, I never expected the fight itself to go well for anyone, and I bet most people don’t either.
Nah, nah your right none of us did……you know I remember back when it felt like they were going to fight at that rally and there was a moment when it looked like Amazi-girl was about break down. Honestly I think I’d rather have this end with a tear fest instead, a good cry seems like it be healthier than this.
Yeah, cool action sequence and all, but not good for anyone and I find it really hard to throw all the blame on either of them – which is what we seem to be doing around here.
Hopefully Willis has a twist planned to bring some kind of positive resolution to this. I’m not sure how much darker it can get and still be recoverable.
I am going to entirely set aside the dialogue here (which has both positives and negatives that I do NOT want to get in to) and say that, from a purely physical side, the fact that Amber, of smaller stature than Sal, can defeat Sal in a fair, stand-up fight, is just damn impressive.
I’m really not sure it is. I mean, Sal lost a fight to Malaya for heaven’s sake.
Sal and Malaya didn’t finish their fight.
Other than a push, Sal never got to throw a punch because Marcie showed up.
And despite the couple of hits Malaya landed, Sal’s confidence that she’d win wasn’t dented a bit.
And considering she’s still going now, or at least up to now, the fight with Malaya was probably far from being over.
Which is why I’m kinda disappointed here.
Leaving aside who’s right and who’s wrong, I just wanted this fight to feel less one sided, that they were evenly matched.
Maybe Sal will rally next strip, but it’s looking pretty bad.
Amber may be smaller, but she apparently has rigorously trained. That gives her an edge against somebody who doesn’t have proper training
Not really. She says it herself she trained for years. Sal’s highly untrained. Also Sal’s skinny as a twig and Amber’s got more weight to her.
“highly untrained?”
Maybe. Apparently lots of practical experience though/
Both of these girls routinely throw down with groups of bigger guys. We know damn well they’re both action movie badasses.
Back to being worried about Sal getting curb stomped
Clarifying, I know she won’t actually be, because Willis probably won’t kill/long term hospitalize main characters, but I can see it going nearly that far, and I’m worried she’s going to come near to death/have someone prevent the last blow before it stops.
Cue it being stopped by Ethan and Danny in tomorrow’s comic, and everyone being (physically) unharmed.
I’m thinking Walky will be the one to stop things either by simply distracting Amber (or Sal if Sal somehow rallies in the future) or by jumping in directly.
It would be nice if Walky got mad that his sister was being hurt, though that wouldn’t help his new fledgling relationship with Amber.
Honestly I think amber settling this herself is kind of a pleasant surprise, in a way- it shows just how much she’s grown that she can fight sal in a manner that’s so calm and collected as supposed to the rage and panic of other strips. it’s a cool role reversal, with sal being the one driven by rage and amber being the one who feels some modicum of control; it kind of speaks to this storyline being sal’s version of the Origin Story and her being vulnerable- physically, emotionally- while her counterpart starts to actually step towards progress.
How is willis gonna F this one up?
Yeah, that’s one thing that’s surprised me here.
Amber’s still in control. She’s not lost in a red haze trying to stomp Sal into the dirt. If Sal actually goes down, she won’t need to be dragged off the body.
For all the problems with this fight, that’s a good thing for Amber’s psyche.
It would be interesting if like, even if he later accepts that it’s not Amber’s intention, he looks at it and is like ‘that is a white girl trying to beat up my sister for no reason that I can see’ and connects that to like, everything Sal has opened up about since school started.
I mean though, even if he realizes that racial violence isn’t Amber’s intention, he may be upset that beating (maiming? killing?) Sal was.
The bad luck is he will arrive when Sal will be punching Amber and declare there’s my sister picking fights again and with my girlfriend no less.
Probably yeah.
Or that he doesn’t arrive. And it’s up to everyone else to give him their tilt of what went down.
Ooh, that could get interesting. Will Dorothy have a different perspective if she can’t clearly hear what they’re saying through the doors?
And none of that explains or justifies why you attacked, harassed, and are continuing to beat up Sal.
I’m glad this is over, and I’m glad Amber gets the last blow because it would have been very hard for Sal to get any sympathy from their friends or the university admin if she ‘won’ this fight.
Fight might not be over yet.
I feel like this is an ominous forecast from you Patreon folx. Dammit Sal, stay down.
More along the lines Sal’s about as stubborn as my puppy when he thinks a given object is his toy.
Seriously, that dog thinks eVERYTHING is his toy and he will NOT allow it to be taken.
“mine??”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4BNbHBcnDI
You’re sure he’s not a cat? I used to have one who would hoard toys in a couple different spots, where the other cat wouldn’t find them. (And if he did, she’d move them.) She also ate all the tails off her toy mice. She was weird.
Best case scenario is them going back and forth until they both admit who is really responsible for their shit.
Sadly I do actually kinda want Amber to “win” this now just so she can realize she’s gone too far with this delusional feud she’s built for herself.
Same. i was hoping Sal wouldn’t have fought her to begin with, because that woulda been the ultimate blow to Amber’s bullshit, but now all I want is for her to be okay and also for Amber to realize how much bullshit she is.
Unfortunately, unless she starts fighting herself due to Amazigirl going, “Woah shit you’re going to kill Sal”, I don’t think Amber will stop until she is out cold or until campus security drags her off
No. I think Amber’s okay here. I was worried about that earlier. It looks to me like she’s got the self-control to stop now.
Assuming Sal doesn’t try to keep fighting back of course.
Why does no-one seem to absorb the fact that Amber never stalked or harassed Sal? She stalked and harassed her mental delusion of who Sal was. The real cause of her behaviour is that she was reacting in an extreme way to a purely-hallucinatory threat.
Holy shit, no. Sal, a very real person, was being stalked and harrassed. It does not matter that Amber was/is delusional – give her leniency for it, sure – but her actions were real and had a real impact on a real person.
If you bend any further over backwards you’re going to break your spine.
And murderers don’t kill people, they kill their mental image of people.
Wait wait holy shit how did I miss this
Careful there bud, you might break your neck if you keep up with such extreme mental gymnastics
I’m expecting amber to just sit on sal and start wailing on her
Because yknow, amber. She doesn’t exactly know when to stop when going off on someone
Strong writing there!
That said: nice, Amber, you defeated your nemesis… I mean, the girl you made into your “nemesis” in that weird narrative you’ve deluded yourself into believing. What now, are you proud of yourself?
Let’s just be hopeful that all of this will prove to be at least somewhat cathartic to these two…
Sal did delude herself too. She became so obsessed with being Marcie’s avenger that she did crimes, fought authorities, and rejected any compromise because on her eyes her rebel behavior was justified against evil authorities.
One sees herself as a hero fighting a villain, and the other sees herself as a rebel justified to do extreme things. They both are wrong.
…What compromise did she reject?
Not encouraging Joyce to report the rape attempt with the authorities.
That’s…not a compromise.
Also, even Dorothy, who did think they should report, agreed it was important to consider what the police and the college were actually likely to do about the assault.
This is not delusion. This is simply a cynical view of the justice system… not entirely unjustified, mind you. Rape victims don’t necessary find it easy to get justice…
Especially not when you have rapists on the supreme court.
“Both sides!”
It’ll be kind of amazing if after all this Amber realizes nope, she’s still got intense psychological issues and the rage and self loathing aren’t going anywhere and that drives home for how fucked up her nemesis narrative was.
I don’t think Sal is defeated yet. Not sure if she can rally, in the next strip, but going by the fact that Amber is saying she CAN win instead of DID win, Amber doesn’t seem to think the fight is over yet.
But that could just be a word choice thing.
Sal has yet to use psychological warfare. That would be interesting!
evolution ?
After stabbing somebody, her she paid her debt to society by watching youtube tutorials on how to be a more effective stabber.
Not sure Amber really gets what we’re talking bout here.
And Sal paid hers by getting a motorcycle and becoming cool. Makes about as much sense.
How about “having to live with her father beating the shit out of her mom and his abuse getting even worse and blaming herself for it all”?
She lived in an abusive home either way. It’s completely unrelated to her crime.
I’m sorry, I’m just coming back to this.
Sal went to court. The government assigned her a punishment/rehabilitation. She went through all the proper channels and now she doesn’t rob gas stations anymore.
Amber did not go to court, did not get assigned a punishment/rehabilitation, and instead went on an independent and proactive journey to become the best stabbing machine the world has ever seen.
You don’t “pay your debt to society” by having abusive parents. People from abusive homes don’t get to stab people willy nilly just because their parents are shitty.
THANK YOU
Jeez I wonder if people would be making this many excuses for mike if it turned out he was knocked around by his parents as a kid
Oh wait, mikes not a soft cute sad nerdy girl people can project themselves on
Mike’s also never shown himself to be anything but an asshole. If we’d actually seen supportive caring stuff from him, as we have from Amber so often, I’d be much more sympathetic to Mike.
There’s still people making excuses for Mike regardless.
Amber, I love you but shuuuut the fuck up.
She has the right to her twisted opinion, just as Sal. Both are wrong, and both deserve to have mistakes as humans.
I’m getting really sick of this false equivalence tbh. Sal is aware of her mistakes, she doesn’t think robbing the store was justified or even a good idea. She apologized to Ethan. Sal has her flaws but Amber is blindingly self-deluded, there’s no comparison.
This isn’t a false equivalency like in politics. Sal has her fair share of crimes and misbehaviors. She may be aware of them, but that doesn’t give her a pass.
Sal not being an angel in this situation doesn’t make them equally at fault! I don’t think anyone, including sal, has said she’s completely blameless in this scenario.
She”s not asking for a pass. She paid her debt to society. She stopped robbing convenience stores.
Amber to this day only trains to be a more effective stabber, and will do it again if given the opportunity.
I’m getting sick of your double standards, if you’re saying she’s diluted because she thinks herself as the hero, then I can say with absolute certainty that she stopped trying to be that.
She’s deluded because she’s made Sal the big bad in her personal mythology. Amber is a traumatized person who has at best a foggy idea of what the source of her trauma is.
It’s started out like that for her but I at least like to feel that’s changed a little bit or maybe not. Who knows 3 years of baggage is hard to deal with.
But the same can be said for Sal, as much as Amber let a lot of this situation out of hand Sal can’t blame her for all this misfortune of the mistakes that put her in the situation she’s in nor is it fair for her to take out all her pent up rage over her parents neglect. For instance how much can she be mad at her for loosing Marcie because she decided to go along with Amazi-girls crime fighting?
She is allowed to blame her for stalking her and instigating a fight with her previously though. Yeah, Sal is adding more things to the fire then she should. (Also, Marci and Sal’s falling out started with trying to Fight against Amazi-girl at the rally, not because of her fighting with Amazi-girl afterwards. Which happened because Sal was fed up with being stalked… So, there is a path of logic to follow for Sal blaming Amazi-girl (it’s the wrong path)she isn’t blaming her for Sal joining the vigilante stuff..)
No no I’m sure that Marcie and Sal’s falling out started when she got fired from a job because she and her employers thought that Sal started that fight in that rally and she’s deciding to avoid Sal now because she’s been falling back into old habits by teaming up with Amazi-girl to have those street brawls.
I’m not saying Sal is perfect, but sorry dude, Amber is 100% the one in the wrong between the two of them and always has been. Sal has done nothing to deserve Amber’s creepy obsession with her as some sort of larger-than-life villain figure.
Both Amber and Sal have done wrong. There’s no good or bad side. These are two humans that fucked up.
That’s like… willfully ignorant. In basically 100% of the situations the two have been in Amber has always been the aggressor. Even taking the mistakes of the past into account, Amber is the one who continues to be shitty right NOW.
Ah the magical middle ground
Checking out early tonight because I can tell these comments are going to be another victim blamey clusterfuck
wild idea: sometimes, beteen two people who’ve fucked up, one of them might have done so more.
Not when your mistakes lead to you kicking a woman in the throat.
Also, um, putting aside Amber’s kinda bullshit here… she just kicked Sal in the throat.
There is a lot in that to think about, especially when wondering what is going to happen next.
It’s a red panel, too. Anybody else notice that?
We’re all focusing on arguing about who’s at fault more here, and, um, Sal just got kicked in the throat in a red panel. This seems like something to be worrying about. Remember what happened to Marcie?
She also appears to have fallen down the stairs.
Sal, so far, has just thrown punches. Amber seems to really, really want to hurt Sal. This is not going to be pretty.
Now seems like a good time to switch scenes to Joyce arguing with Walky about Monkey Master.
Okay, there have been other red panels, and she’s actually kicked Sal in the chest. Also, the Patreon title for tomorrow’s comic makes me think that there’s more yet to see from Sal.
I wonder if Amazi-Girl is gonna show up soon. Maybe if Amber realizes what she’s done, she won’t want to be Amber anymore.
Amber already doesn’t want to be Amber. Amber knows full well Amber’s a monster, just like everyone here thinks.
She’s garbage. Amazi-Girl failed to salvage her. This is not news to Amber. Learning it will not help her.
So maybe sack up and stop?
She got kicked in her chest, not her throat. Amber’s boots are tan. If you look at her boot and follow it to Sal, it connects to the blue of her jacket. If she was kicked in the throat, the connection should be over top/in front of the blue, not beneath/behind it.
Look closely. Sal didn’t get kicked in the throat.
Gotta agree with everyone else here. That’s a chest kick, not a throat kick.
Though the third panel one looks like a kick to the jaw.
Sal’s tough. She can take it.
Oh, good, we’re back to Sal being the Joe Chill. Fun.
Willis, please, I’ll pay so much to let Amber get some therapy. Can that be a tier on patreon?
And yeah, figures. No actual sanction because stabbing people is wrong, but mess with the abuser’s ego and there’ll be hell to pay. Fuck Blaine right in the ear. And huh, looks like I need to update the timeline. I thought Blaine and Stacey were already in the process of getting a divorce when the robbery happened, but I guess not.
And Amber, honey? I love that you love Wicked, but this is DEEPLY CONCERNING ME.
Also, guys – bold of you to assume the fight is over. Sal strikes me very much as the kind of person who keeps getting up until she wins even when she really, really, REALLY should stay down.
Yeah, I’ve been seeing it and just shaking my head, because I’m certain it’s going to go further.
Yeah, this is gonna get SO MUCH WORSE before it gets better.
And then it’ll get even worse from there because Willis is a fickle and wrathful god.
The one thing that makes me think Sal will switch from fighting in anger to fighting in self defense is because her appealing to Amazi Girl in the fourth panel makes me think she realized she set off somebody completely nuts who won’t stop until one of them is dead
That said, Sal won’t stop fighting. Not because she thinks she can win, but because she realizes Amber WILL kill her if she doesn’t fend her off
I think it’s more Sal’s trying to reach out after hearing about her fuckhole dad. I don’t think Amber’s going to kill her or get to a point she wants to kill her. This is about proving herself as the successful Batman beating Joe Chill, and Batman doesn’t kill.
She’s not in superhero mode, though.
Which is what makes it really scary – She is Amber right now. And Amber thinks that Amber is an irredeemable monster who is as bad if not worse than Blaine. And she seems to think Sal is the reason she is like that
I really honestly think that Sal needs to keep fighting because the second she lets up, Amber is going to go for the kill
Ignoring the fact that Willis has said people won’t die, I don’t think Amber wants to kill Sal.
She does think that, but she seems to be staying in control here. Compared to fighting Blaine or what we saw of Gashface.
No, but she’s still thinking of Sal as her super villain and she knows how she wants that to go.
The new highest tier on Patreon: WRITE THE STORY YOURSELF
I can do that for free on AO3 though.
It looks like it didn’t post, but if you get a reply to this comment that says ‘kinksssss’ please know I meant ‘linkssss’
I may or may not have a story idea in my notes right now that is literally just ‘Dumbing of Age entirely from Sal’s POV’. And yes, when I get it started, I’ll post links.
Add me to the list of people who’d love to read that.
yes!
(although I still don’t know if I’ve gotten ao3 emails working; the fics I was expecting to update on halloween are now on hiatus 🙁 )
I’d love to read that just out of curiousity.
I basically already want to rewrite the story (or, rather, write Sal’s POV on the actual story).
If you meant ‘write Amber actually getting therapy’ that’s on my list too, but it’ll take longer because holy shit the research on therapy on that is gonna be forever.
it’s easier once you’ve been on psych hold a few times! 🙂
I’m sure, but I’m also sure you’ll forgive me if that’s not something I am eager to experience.
were you actually given therapy in psych hold? i’m curious what the standard is, because my experience was “a week of mind numbing boredom without meds, punctuted by snack times, curfew, and daily floor meetings where we briefly discussed what was wrong with us and like, a happy thought of the day.”
fuck I typed a long reply to this and it doesn’t seem to be posting, I really hope it didn’t disappear (though on the other hand, it was not the best post). The tl;dr was ‘sometimes, but not other times, and one time I don’t remember great’
Willis may have a filter to prevent people from posting long feverish posts while they’re off their meds.
oh also relevant, I was put in outpatient therapy after my first psych hold
it’ll probably show up when willis clears out the spamtrap. 🙂
I got everyone pissed off at me over at Wapsi Square from trying to write the story myself.
I think they were separated during that time period. I know some states require you to be living apart from you spouse for a period of time before you can actually divorce them (for some stupid reason). Or maybe they were doing a “break” to “salvage the relationship” or some horse hockey. And then all this went down that was the proverbial straw and that made the decision for divorce super easy.
Blaine said Stacey filed for divorce after he hit her, and (according to Blaine and absent anything to the contrary) he only hit her once. Apparently this was after the robbery and around the time he got his way on defence classes > therapy, the divorce finalized.
When he said ‘hit her once and she quits,’ I thought it more meant that he’d only have to hit her once per argument and she’d back down, not that it only happened once and she quit by divorcing.
Considering that Mike had just gone through Blaine’s receipts, which were at Amber’s house, and used them to blackmail Blaine into driving Amber during that trip, I doubt they were getting divorced at that time.
Maybe they were separated, but I don’t think that was the case either, since Amber’s mom was happy when he showed up at the birthday party.
Wow, this is like a reverse Batman speech.
“I am Bruce Wayne and I am the NIGHT!”
“My dad is aliiiiiiiiiiiive!!!!”
There was a JLA storyline some years back where everyone got split into their costumed and secret IDs. One thing that got pointed out is that Bruce is the one with all the anger, and without Batman, he had no way to deal with it.
That still makes no sense, even beyond the usual superhero/civilian split. Bruce Wayne is still an angry buff rich guy when he takes off the mask.
Ambers Mistake
So chasing down an armed kidnapper wasn’t the first really dumb thing she did but only one more dumb thing. Sal was right. She’ll get herself killed at some point if she keeps this up.
Also, I don’t expect this fight to be over.
This is one thing that has pissed me off about Sal. Yes, Amber is tempting death constantly, but at least she fought for just causes, like saving Becky and fighting rapist apologists. Sal has done the same things as Amber, and more considering her avenger attitude of fighting for Marcie. Both have done terrible stuff, so Sal’s speech was crap when I read months ago.
Sal’s got some serious misgivings about what she and AG are doing though. She agrees with some vigilante justice (when actual authorities can’t or won’t help – like with Ryan or Leland) but the exact way she and AG are going about it has her wondering just how effective they’re being.
Also, if it’s a just cause when AG does it, why is it not a just cause for Sal to also try to help Becky and fight Ryan’s goons? Because she criticizes AG’s methods or because she wonders how effective they’re being?
Sal’s point was that Amber/AG was needlessly reckless about the way she does stuff, and that’s not disproven by them being for a good cause. Sal never caused an accident, although she almost could have with how she was driving Danny the other day, and she’s not so stupid as to get into a fight with multiple opponents by herself. Instead, she steps in to help AG who did do that.
Not entirely true – Sal was going to get into a fight with those three guys when she thought they were trying to break into one of Ryan’s accusers homes.
True, because she thought it was a grave emergency. And given her exchange with AG, she had reason to believe that she would have had backup, but AG was late.
Never understood why dying for a “just cause” is any better than dying because of something stupid. It’s still painful for those left behind.
And for the justified part, one of them is currently wanted by the police for putting someone in hospital. It’s not sal.
Amber isn’t wanted by the police for putting Ryan in the hospital. The cameras showed it was self defense.
Or are you referring to something else that I’m blanking on?
Blaine. She put her father in hospital and I’d be really surprised if police isn’t looking for her for that. Blaine had no reason to not talk to the police, in his mind, some stranger in a jump suit attacked him and broke his bones.
She was wearing her ag costume so when her identity gets public, this could mean real trouble for her. Especially since Blaine is looking for a way to no longer having to pay for her education. He’ll point the police to her with delight, or use it as a threat to make her obey him again. There even is the possibility that he knows amber was the one beating him up and faz was sent to find proof.
Oh my God… never thought about it like that… that just made me feel scared for Amber.
I believe Blaine reported he was mugged/assaulted by a bunch of guys or one large guy, can’t remember which. Basically Blaine’s ego wouldn’t let him tell the police a small woman beat the shit out of him.
Yeah, Blaine said he got beaten up by a big guy.
Irrelevant though. Amber is wanted by the police (for questioning) because AG’s role in the Toedad fiasco
Blaine, right? They never found out who beat the crap out of him. I think Ruth mentioned it a while ago
Because we want people to fight for just causes even if it means they will die.
Poor Walky.
Both of them he would be caught in the middle, and neither cared enough to de escalate for his sake.
I hate this gravitar
Change a letter in your email address to a capital. That should get you another random character.
Or, go to gravatar.com and choose your own image. Lots of us have done it.
There are many valid reasons for these two to not fight. Consideration for Walky’s feelings is not one of them.
Nah, playing nice with family of your squeeze, or you family’s squeeze is totally legit. I mean, it’s almost Thanksgiving after all. That’s like the national holiday of saying “please pass the potatoes” instead of what you’re really thinking.
Your Thanksgiving and mine sound very different.
My family’s much more ‘If you’re an asshole then fuck you, you don’t get an invite’.
Kinda impressive she’s able to talk so much under the circumstances. But come on guys! Let this go. This is all the fault of your fucked up parents. So stop beating each other up and get back to working together.
Standard superhero comics trope: Dialogue and action are partially or entirely disconnected.
Ah yes. Sal made Blaine be a abusive piece of shit.
Glad you cleared that up Amber.
Pretty sure it was more of ” and all of that happened just because I was too much of chicken shit to do anything before.” Rather than blaming Sal Straight up for Blaine being Blaine.
But if there is something that it does feel like Ambers unfairly villainizing Sal for it’s probably because she thinks Sal’s part of the reason Ambers become what she is now. Which is unfair because that’s kind of also just on Blaine not her.
Just like Amber made Sal’s parents send her away, right right.
Sal never said Amber made Sal’s parents send her away, she said Amber didn’t face either parental or legal sanction for stabbing her.
Exactly.
And Amber didn’t say Sal was to blame for Blaine being abusive either. She answered Sal’s question.
Here’s the difference between Amber and Sal.
Sal’s destructive behavior has victims. Ethan. Marcie. (I’d argue it was Amber’s dad who traumatized Amber – Sal is just the safer, more convenient target for blame.) But Sal apologizes for her actions, feels genuine remorse, makes sincere attempts to make amends, even if those attempts are sometimes misguided.
Amber’s destructive behavior has victims. Danny. Sal. Ethan. Her mother.
Amber has never ONCE apologized to any of her victims for hurting them. Never expressed real remorse. She only ever sees herself as the victim – even when – especially when it comes to Sal and Danny – THEY are actually HER victims.
I like Amber as a character, but at this point I just have to say that Amber is straight up an abuser. Sure, she’ll call herself a “monster,” but she does nothing to actually try to be better. All she does is compartmentalize a persona who “tries to do good” (via violence) into someone separate from herself. She has thus far shown herself as being incapable of seeing, acknowledging, and most importantly, taking actual responsibility for when she victimizes others.
Instead…she blames her victims. It’s THEIR fault. They MADE her do it. THEY turned her into this.
That looks to me, sadly, like typical abuser justification of their actions.
Hopefully she starts to become better somehow, but so far? Yikes.
Amber giving back the toy Ethan bought for her seemed to count.
That wasn’t an apology, and it wasn’t her trying to make up for anything she did that was ACTUALLY hurtful or harmful to him – like pushing him to come out of the closet when he wasn’t ready, screaming at him and flipping furniture in front of people about it.
She gave him the toy back to “make up” for “being too weak” at the convenience store – which essentially is her agreeing with Blake’s narrative. Which is not Ethan’s, who has never blamed Amber for how things went down there.
I can’t find it but I remember a strip in which Amber said she never wanted to be like her mother and fall into an abusive relationship. Which Mike implied that given she was dating a sweet, deferential boy like Danny, it was her father who she was more like.
Unfair perhaps given all the abuse she suffered under Blaine, and I can’t see her ever becoming as bad as him but…she really, really needs to take responsibility for her actions. Her behaviour is scary and if she keeps going on like this, or even escalating, she will hurt many people and even end up in gaol.
Well, Mike is honest. And he’s usually right. People usually don’t like the combination (and he has fun using it as a weapon), but still, he did have a point.
It actually is because of all this abuse. No matter how bad our parents are, they are our role models. We learn from them how to do relationships and friendships. Children of abusive parents often pick up one of the roles they watched growing up. It’s all they know. Amber picked up her fathers role.
Amber is a fantastic character. But if I knew someone like her in real life I’d keep them as far away from me as possible.
You’re blaming Amber for Blaine abusing her mother? Seriously? Also, Danny and Ethan aren’t victims of her violence, they just don’t know how to make her stop.
1. Amber has behaved badly towards her mother in the past, I believe.
2. Amber hasn’t been too bad to Ethan, but she’s definitely been very controlling and, at times, bordering on verbally abusive.
3. Amber has definitely been abusive towards Danny. Not all abuse is physical. This is why they broke up.
She literally flipped a table because she disapproved of who he was dating.
Ooh, I forgot about that.
Also I forgot that literally a few minutes ago, Amber was on the verge of yelling at him for talking to Sal.
There was a moment that was more interesting in that regard. Ethan was talking to Danny after the breakup and ethan said that amber usually was his decider. So her making decisions for him (and often getting angry if he doesn’t obey) kind of is how their friendship works. Scary if you think about it.
Yes. And she HAS yelled at Danny for talking to Sal.
For literally just talking to her.
She’s also yelled at Danny for ‘breaking the rules’ when it comes to him dating AG and not her. http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-6/02-that-perfect-girl/amber-2/
Which isn’t really surprising as she was moving towards more separation between the alters. Most people will get upset if you “break the rules” about dating someone else and not them.
And for that one she did run away and apologize.
In the context of discussing emotionally abusive behaviors, apologizing for them afterwards doesn’t really mean that they don’t exist or that their impact is lessened. If the cycle is abuse > apologize > abuse, the apology doesn’t really mean anything. And considering that Amber’s ‘sorry’ for that comes in the middle of a moment where she’s berating herself for being stupid and worthless, I don’t know. She should actually, properly apologize to him, because apologies where you berate yourself and put the other person in the position where they need to comfort you do not count as proper apologies.
Another thing is that Danny did not properly know about the alters. He was still stuck thinking that it’s a Bruce Wayne/Batman situation. Like, AG is just a fun name she puts on at night for anonimity’s sake, not because she’s an actual other personality. That still doesn’t make it right or appropriate for Amber to yell at Danny and call him “a stupid piece of- [that can’t follow instructions]”.
But for that to apply, you have to actually have the abuse/apologize/abuse cycle. Yelling at someone and apologizing isn’t sufficient to establish that.
It’s certainly true that neither Amber or Amazi-Girl have ever been clear to Danny (or anyone really) about the relationship between them and that’s led to a lot of their problems and have come more and more to act like everyone should know and understand the distinction.
And no, I absolutely agree it wasn’t right or appropriate. Just that I don’t think we can extrapolate it to the larger pattern some see.
I actually think that she’s aware of this cycle and it’s why she rarely apologises. She once said that apologies are worthless if you can’t do better in future. And she thinks she is unable to behave better (which is a self-fulfilling prophecy).
Just to put that in context: She loved him. He broke up with her because he was gay. She spent the whole summer before college, after the break up, being his emotional support and helping him deal with coming out, especially with his homophobic mother.
A couple of weeks later she finds him dating a girl.
Yeah, she overreacted, but it’s a far cry from “disapproved of who he was dating”.
She even laid it out explicitly right after: “You can pretend for her, not for me?”
That’s NOT better. Jealous controlling rage is not better than regular controlling rage.
That’s… still emotional abuse though. And Amber did disapprove of who he was dating, albeit for a good reason, because Joyce was trying to take him to church and force him to be straight. In any case, Amber does not have the right to yell at either of them (but mostly Ethan) in public and physically intimidate them http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-4/01-the-only-dope-for-me-is-you/promised/
Amber having a sympathetic relationship and past with Ethan doesn’t make it okay for her to act like this or do anything like this to him.
It’s overblown to call it emotional abuse. It’s not cool certainly, but it’s not abuse. No, she doesn’t have the right to yell at and intimidate him, but not everything has to be cast as “Amber is an abuser”.
She got mad, for a real and understandable reason. Not as a pattern of controlling him. Not because she “didn’t approve”.
I’m not saying that Amber is an abuser though. I agree, I don’t think she’s there yet. But she has abusive tendencies. You can have those and still not be an abuser. And the way she interacts with people can almost certainly be considered emotional abuse. Consider that the background of the panel where she’s flipping the table and yelling at Ethan is red, something that has long been established to be tied to mental instability, anger, and violence.
Is Amber, of this moment, an abuser? No. Can Amber have abusive behaviors? Yes. Will Amber become an abusive person? Time will tell.
Red panels equal panic attacks, not necessarily anger or violence.
Not really sure screaming “The fuck it is!” while flipping a table in response to your friend saying that something is their decision really checks out as a panic reaction in any world. It’s pure rage.
Not to mention that Ethan and Joyce’s relationship was completely fucked up.
Also, I think we were meant to agree with Amber in that strip.
Sort of.
I think we were supposed to agree with her basic point, but also see that she went way over the top expressing it.
I don’t think they were implying Amber was responsible for Blaine abusing her mother, but that Amber’s self-destructive and dangerous behavior by itself negatively affects Stacey. Which is true.
And no, Ethan and Danny may not have suffered from violence, but that doesn’t mean that Amber’s destructive behavior has never made them suffer. http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-6/02-that-perfect-girl/amber-2/
I disagree that she doesn’t see when she has victimized others. She does. She’s acknowledged that she’s done Danny wrong and that she owes him an apology. But she doesn’t think she’s capable of giving him one, not while she’s likely to still do it again. http://www.dumbingofage.com/2018/comic/book-8/03-faz-is-great/creeping/
No, jeez. Amber has been a real jerk to her mom in the recent past in the strip.
All she did was point out Joe’s dad is a putz. Even Joe agrees his dad is a putz.
You are so far off it’s not even funny. Amber knows straight up when she fucks up She doesn’t apologize because she believes no matter what she says or does it would never be enough to redeem her actions or convince hers that she wouldn’t make the same mistake again in her eyes.
Example here: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2018/comic/book-8/03-faz-is-great/creeping/
Also as for “only ever seeing herself as a vitctem” I’d say your dead wrong on that, that’s the last thing she would ever characterize herself as. To her she views herself as a monster who’s undeserving of love and is always destined to hurt someone no matter what the circumstance is which is why she always compares herself to her father. It’s also why she distances herself from others, She isolates herself because she’s afraid of herself and what she might do to people that care for her.
Examples here: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2017/comic/book-8/01-face-the-strange/boundaries-2/ and here: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2017/comic/book-8/01-face-the-strange/boundaries-2/
Amber has tried to do better and be better in more ways than one, especially now since she’s now convinced that doing good through violence isn’t working, it’s why she’s trying to scrap the hole Amazi-girl girl thing in the first place. But in the end she practically given up on all that because now she’s running the narrative that there is no Redemption for her and she’s destined to become just like her father like it’s genetics or some shit, she’s given up hope. The only person she ever blames whenever shit goes down is herself to her it’s always on her never anyone else.
The way you characterize her it’s nothing but completely wrong on every account. Everything you said feels like nothing more than a narrative you’ve convinced yourself is the case but in actuality it’s nothing more but ass-backwards. You’ve done nothing but done Amber’s character Injustice if you were paying attention this wouldn’t be the problem.
So all in all- https://youtu.be/M5QGkOGZubQ
yeah this! Sal actively works to better herself, she recognizes her flaws and looks for ways to turn them around. She makes an effort
Amber has literally given up in being a good person so every single bad thing she does was ordained by fate and completely inevitable because she’s a monster in her mind
Some major conflation here on Amber’s part. Maybe she can defeat Sal…but Sal isn’t the problem. Amber hasn’t so much as touched that yet.
Maybe this’ll be the point where she realizes that and gets herself some goddamn therapy. Maybe.
Damn, I thought this storyline would have a peaceful resolution
Peaceful isn’t good fiction. Fiction stands on conflict. This plot line has been years building. It can’t be blown off with a nice conversation over a cup of tea.
Not all conflict is physical violence.
You can have a very tense climax to a plot with conversation over tea.
“Ah dear friend, shall we partake of this delicious beverage at the appointed time?”
“Why certainly, dear friend.”
“How many sugars, steadfast companion?”
“Two, if you kindly will. And a dab of milk.”
*hostile glare across the table*
So, basically Girl Genius?
That has plenty of action scenes – though that would work for a rivalry like Gil and Tarvek.
There’s a whole subgenre of “Fantasy of Manners”, which I’ve also seen described as “Tea and Sorcery”.
I feel like all their friends will turn on amber and sal and make them live to regret this fight ever occurred. Either that or the friends will turn against one of them, I’m betting Amber, I don’t know why but I’m just feeling like that at this moment. They could easily turn against Sal. I feel like Marcie will turn against Sal in either case for starting the fight in the first place. Amber might have been ready for a fight, but Sal threw the first punch, if Marcie knows that, she won’t care what the reason. She will throw Sal to the curb or just be angry at her for another week or two. Maybe more I don’t know. All my ideas are just theories.
Am I the only one who thinks Amber is wildly in the wrong, here?
I mean, have you tried reading the comments?
If not, solid choice, I get it.
But, no, you are not the only one.
Yeah, taking Amber’s side seems to necessitate focusing entirely on “Sal threw the first punch” and “Sal shouldn’t have robbed that convenience store”.
Not a fan, personally.
Or you can take the side of “Oh god no, please stop.”
You don’t need to pick one of these kids to cheer on and one to be the villain.
Booo boring. If I were there I’d probably be throwing money or popcorn or something at them.
Pick a side and place your bets, who’s teeth do you wanna see get kicked in
They’re just pixels on a screen and I’m the same age as them so wanting to see them duke it out is totally okay
She’s wrong to defend herself against someone who punched her in the face?
Sal came to talk, Amber egged it into a fight.
Amber came to talk to Ethan, got defensive when surprised by the confrontation and Sal egged it into a fight.
I can see it either way.
There’s a reason Sal punched her in the face. There’s, like, four reasons. Sal shouldn’t have started this fight, but unlike Amber, Sal only picks fights with people who have really, really pushed her. Trouble is, a lot of people decide to push her.
She’s wrong to have brought her fists up and continuously blamed Sal for her life, and implying it’s Sal’s fault she got stalked/stabbed/etc, and for doing those things until this particular incident. And it’s hard to be sympathetic (about the punch) when she literally agreed that she wanted to fist fight.
(she’s easy to be sympathetic for a lot of reasons, but not regarding stabbing/stalking/fighting Sal)
*brought her fists up before Sal punched, without so much as a threat
it wouldn’t be wrong to bring them up to defend herself
If you read the comments, no. About half think she is in the wrong and half don’t.
You’re not the only. #TeamSal
Obviously not even reading the other comments, but the problem is that neither of them are.
I think they both should be put on timeout. This whole fight is dumb and should be stopped.
They are BOTH in the wrong, it just so happens Amber is MORE in the wrong than Sal. They are still both being complete fuckheads though, tbh.
Well… No. I don’t think that Amber’s behaviour is rational or entirely based on objectively-perceptible fact so saying she is ‘in the wrong’ is suggesting that she has functional responsibility for her actions, which I don’t think she does.
Not remotely.
you are not
“DID YOU HEAR THAT, DAD? I SURE SHOWED YOU BY BEATING UP THIS OTHER PERSON, RIGHT, DAD?!”
Fudge you, Blaine.
Yeah, the last two strips have been brutal.
“Punching you will show the deep neglect my parents put me through as well as send a message to the systemic racism that puts disproportionate penalties for crimes on people of color.”
“Oh yeah, well punching you will totally erase all the mental damage and abuse my dad put us through essentially terrorizing both me and my mom for most of my young life.”
It’s like, they are both shadowboxing except against a real person and it’s so sad because no matter who “wins” the fight, neither is going to get what they actually want and both are likely to lose something important to them.
Firstly, welcome back Cerberus.
Secondly, well thank heaven someone sees beyond the “Sal’s fault” “No! Amber’s fault!” argument.
Team “therapy for everyone!”
That’s what I have been saying for years, put them into therapy already!
Amber can have her therapy once she’s locked in a box and no longer a threat to the people around her.
Seriously. Who’s at fault is so beside the point.
Absolutely!
Sal’s fault!
Amber’s fault!
Sal’s fault!
Amber’s fault!
Duck season!
Wabbit season!
-The comments this week
Yeah, I just realized we’re all like Sal and Amber. We all think we’re right and won’t back down. Part of me thinks Willis planned it this way.
Yeah, that’s a good description. Both of them are shadowboxing against the parents that drove them to the breaking point in that convenience store. But it’s the other person who has to carry the onslaught.
And the sad thing (well, ONE of the sad things) is that both of them were doing better. Sal opening up to Ethan AND GAINING HIS FORGIVENESS. Amber opening up to Walky and gaining some sweet smooches – one of the few triumphs she has allowed herself as Amber rather than Amazi-girl.
At this point, I almost expect Linda and Blaine to pop up from a manhole or something and declare themselves married and also tell their children that they suck.
Yup, this is a major setback for both of them and that’s just heartbreaking.
That would be great! They’d have someone actually evil to beat up.
Sal has some pretty good and valid reasons to want to punch Amber specifically as a real person in the face beyond just projecting her issues onto her.
Also true, Emily.
^This exactly. Well put Cerberus.
Fourth Panel:
Sal’s internal monologue: “Shit I picked a fight with a crazy person ABORT!”
“Crazier than me, ah mean!”
Amber O’Malley Take Some Goddamned Responsibility Challenge 2018
Failed on day one
I’m sorry but I cannot see any justification or equivalence between Sal’s wrong doings and Ambers. Sal did some VERY stupid shit but she has actively been trying to be better, sometimes incorrectly, but she has acknowledged that who she was in the past was in the wrong. And she feels she has payed her dues. Amber has not ONCE shown any remorse for the collateral damage she causes. Not her mother, not Dany, no one. Instead she makes their suffering about HERSELF. “My dad was mad at ME so he punished ME by beating my mom.” She is frequently making herself the victim of everything. Its gotten to the point that she has vilified, stalked, and assaulted a woman who has payed her dues and is TRYING to be a genuinely better person. Amber’s delusions have made the full circle transition from traumatized youth to abuser. You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain. Today, Amber took possibly the final step into becoming Blaine.
Equivalence cannot be drawn, Amber is definitely MORE in the wrong here. That, however, does not mean that Sal is being stellar either. They’re both being assholes. Just Amber is being a bigger asshole.
Mind you, I’m sure Blaine told her that. Pushed the blame on her for everything. That’s not easy to get past.
But also, I was more on the Sal’s acknowledged what she’s done wagon before last strip where she minimized it with “Ah stole nothing, hurt nobody”, which might be technically true, but is still whitewashing her own actions.
As someone who has struggled with thoughts of not wanting to become the same as his old man…
I would dump a bucket of cold water on Amber’s head to break the anger episode she’s going through right now and force her to calm down AND THEN DRAG HER ASS TO THERAPY.
God. DAMN. I’m sorry, but she’s basically the villain now.
Same! While my experiences were no where near like having Blaine as a dad, I have certainly spent a lot of time scared I’d be abusive/neglectful like my parents and have actively worked to not be like them. GO TO THERAPY, YA DAMN DINGUS AMBER!
Same Foxhack. I agree with everything you said.
Amber really needs therapy to deal with her disassociative disorder, whichever specific flavor it may be. This ain’t healthy.
Regarding the fight itself, I do hope Ethan is doing something to break this up or at least triage the damage.
okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay
I don’t like this. Amber, I want to support you, I really do but… All of that anger seems to stem from your father’s actions, not Sal’s, and I mean, you already had what was supposed to be a cathartic fight when you beat him up…
I know you really went through some stuff, and Sal is at least a little to blame for some of this, but please recognize that this is well beyond Just Desserts.
Please Amber…
We’ve yet to see any indication Sal is done fighting.
This is called transference.
Damn, you took the words right out of my mouth. While Sal is partly to blame for escalating the situation, what Amber is doing right now and the motivations behind it have definitely crossed a line.
I can only hope either Ethan or Danny breaks them apart before this gets even worse. Or even better, that Amber takes a step back and realizes what she is doing before is to late.
The Amazing Amber!
Wow. That’s strong writing, and this is a writer who says so.
Since nobody else is talking about it, a brief acknowledgement that there is a racial lens to this which Amber refuses to acknowledge (Amazi-Girl enforces the laws without much care to how the laws are written to target certain groups over others). Sal is very keenly aware of that lens—hence her calling out Amber for getting little-to-no punishment for stabbing a black girl in the hand. And she DID get little-to-no punishment, at least from her mother.
Barring a curbstomp, if the police arrive, they aren’t going to see a fight between two equal participants. Sal is the black girl with the record, and Amber is the nerdy white girl.
Amazi-Girl once mocked Sal over that record, incidentally, and the profiling it leads to. Amber is arguably one of the least “woke” of the main characters out of sheer self-involvement. It’s no wonder she and Sal have problems.
*at least from her mother and law enforcement
And yes, Amber is mentally ill, but that’s not actually a factor here. Not that mental illness would excuse any of this, but this is all pretty much Amber acting in full lucidity—or what passes for lucidity for someone with her head so far up her own ass.
People were mostly talking about that yesterday. There is a racial undercurrent but I don’t think it’s blatant. Amber already has enough reason to hate Sal without race being a factor. But yeah if police show up Sal will probably take most of the heat. She has a record. Although there are also witnesses so who knows?
I don’t know if Amber is particularly racist, but she is not really thinking about how race might affect these dynamics. Amazi-Girl seems to have learned a little. Amber has not.
I like to think that, having already gotten a pass on beating the tar out of Ryan (was that his name?), her getting into another altercation so soon is going to be a red flag to authorities.
But probably not.
You’re not the only one who noticed. The way I see it, the two of them look at the law and legality very different and that’s kind of at the core of this conflict.
Sal knows that she and hers will never get systemic justice (from her family, from society, from the law) so there’s no incentive to respect laws that are going to fuck you over anyway. Amber believes that following the law is how she can “earn” the right to inflict her pent-up violence on others (that’s why Amazi-Girl’s “code” exists, and why Amber right now is stressing how hard she worked to be able to defeat Sal).
One knows the rules are not written to give people like her justice, the other needs rules to avoid facing the real nature of her traumas.
Amber’s honestly such a cop it pisses me the hell off
Yeah, seriously, harassing some underage drinkers? Garbage.
On an unrelated note, remember how Sarah said Sal had “bad taste in friends” when Amazi-Girl was interrogating her about the Ding-Dong Bandit? Looks kinda bad when you compare it to how Sal’s mom talked about her friends, doesn’t it?
I’m pretty sure the only friends Sarah would have seen her with in the dorms by that point were Marcie and Carla. Maybe she meant Carla because Carla’s a (delightful) asshole?
Sal doesn’t hang out with Carla that much, though. I dunno.
I think comparing Amber to a cop is a little harsh.
Comment of the year
Legally speaking, Sal didn’t get punished either. Institutionalized racism certainly exists, but the girl who tried to kill someone and did no jail time is a poor example.
She went to Juvenile detention and was given a criminal record.
Her parents bailed her out and sent her to catholic school instead. Granted, I wouldn’t want to go to catholic school but it’s not a legal punishment.
She went to catholic school after she came back from juvenile detention, and she still has her criminal record to this day.
I don’t think she was actually in juvenile detention. She has mentioned a record.
Sort of an aside: Criminal records of minors are, uh… I think the term is “sealed”, in the US, right? The record itself won’t impact Sal’s life, unless she does something that justifies a judge ordering them unsealed or something?
Nope. Records aren’t automatically sealed in Indiana.
The school was an alternative to juvie, she didn’t go to juvie itself.
Thanks.
Wait, so the court sent her to catholic school? Isn’t that a violation of church and state?
Catholic school in general is, since it’s taxpayer-subsidized, but get’s off on the technicality that parental consent is required.
the court can also mandate AA, even if the one in your area is a straight-up cult.
It went through a court, it was legal punishment. Non standard but not unheard of.
No more O’Malley Prime. Grant me mercy I beg you.
Okay Ethan you’re going to need to administer the cool down hug. Don’t worry I can provide instructions.
1. Move between the subject and victim.
2. Lift your arms up this will both add extra protection for the person behind you and make you look like Jesus.
3. At this point its likely the subject will demand you get out of the way, its important not to move.
4. The subject will likely begin hitting you, these will decrease in severity as the subject realizes they have become the very thing they swore to destroy.
5. At this point wrap your arms around the subject and slowly allow them to drop to their knees.
Congratulations you have completed a cool down hug! For more information read the next installment titled: Shoving people out of the way of giant energy blasts so you take the hit instead instead and you.
I thought the fight only intensifies when one becomes the very thing they swore to destroy? Something about allegiances and seeing through the lies and dealing in absolutes?
You are right, allow me to amend that to “in danger of becoming the very thing they swore to destroy” Typically if someone has already completed the process the only recourse is a dramatic fight that ends with you cradling them in your arms as they expire.
What I’ve learned from this strip is that I have more faith in the goodness of both Sal and Amber than I do in the comments section.
so what im getting from some of the comments is:
– stabbing someone who threatened you after theyve been incapacitated is justified
– punching someone whos stalked, harassed, and lied to you about her identity for weeks is not justified
America at least has a history of supporting violence against criminals. In this case, Willis has done an excellent rebuttal of this as he pointed out the “criminal” engaged in armed robbery was very much a child, a person, and harmless.
Amber is a good argument against the punisher in miniature.
Sal wasn’t harmless. Sympathetic? Yes, but not harmless. Wasn’t Ryan endorsing vigilante justice with Ryan?
Willis endorsing vigilante justice with Ryan. Sorry, work screwed up my sleep schedule.
Sal was unarmed, restrained, and in police custody. She could not have been more harmless.
She was in police custody because she tried to kill Ethan.
However you may interpret that scene, she was no threat anymore.
You keep saying this like it’s not a gross misrepresentation of events.
She did not try to kill Ethan, she grabbed him to try to bluff that she’d hurt him. She was never going to actually hurt him, if she was he’d be dead.
Which is, by itself, a serious crime. I agree that she didn’t intend to kill him, but don’t minimize what she did.
He could very easily have been seriously cut or killed if anything had gone slightly wrong.
Aren’t you the same person who constantly points to “comic book logic” as an absolution of Amber’s responsibility for her reckless disregard for other’s safety?
Even in comic books, where people routinely beat each other up with no long term physical consequences, taking hostages is frowned on.
And that’s why police shoot people who are down but say they can’t do anything about stalkers!
Kinda wish I was kidding.
Stabbing someone who tried to kill your friend is justifid. Punching somone who stalks, harassed, and lied to you is justified unless they are doing it because you tried to kill their friend.
Justified but bot good.
If it was 5 years ago and you were a kid at the time its still justified unless you can be reasonably sure they are done.
Sorry Amber’s stabbing Sal might have been justifies but it was not good.
Didn’t say it was. I’m just sick of everyone acting like Sal is just picked on.
And you’re choosing to do so by invalidating Sal’s rightful anger at being harassed for years long after she ceased to be a threat to Ethan? After she already received her legal punishment for the crime she committed?
Two wrongs don’t make a right. Amber choosing to stalk, harass, and assault Sal years after the initial incident where Ethan was taken hostage is not in any way justified, but you seem to be claiming otherwise. It’s straight up revenge, it has nothing to do with justice.
Sal’s anger is invalidated by the fact that she tried to kill Ethan. No matter how much time has passed, no matter how sorry she claims she is, she can’t take it back.
She didn’t try to kill Ethan.
She took him hostage, threatening to kill him and risking his life, which is nearly as bad, but she didn’t actually try to kill him.
It’s a slim difference, but it is there.
It’s world of difference! It’s literally the difference between life and death!
At some point, Amber’s anger wasn’t about Ethan. It wasn’t about avenging him or keeping him safe. It was about her exerting control over Sal and her father and proving she was the stronger person.
Yeah, no. Much the same you can’t take a baseball bat to the head of a suspect in custody, you also can’t stab someone who is no longer a threat. That is extralegal punishment and there is no justification for the assault as Amber’s life was no longer in danger. It’s a legal and moral failing. Much the same as later stalking, harassing, assaulting, and lying to that same person years after the fact.
If someone held a knife to your throat and later you found out they had taken a bat to the head would you complain?
If Amber’s only crime was not complaining when she heard rumors that harm had befallen Sal, then this would be an entirely different story.
But that’s not what’s happening here!
Amber isn’t like, enjoying Sal being shat on by society or losing Marcie. Amber isn’t observing misfortune to Sal, Amber is CAUSING misfortune to Sal in the PRESENT day, and has built up Sal on some sort of anti-pedestal. All the harassment, stalking, and violence is not to avenge or protect Ethan or others, it’s to grind Sal (and others) into the dirt because that’s what Amber has been told to do, otherwise she’s weak, worthless, and shit.
The point is Sal brought the wrath of a mentally ill girl on herself.
For a mistake that she made as a teenager that she already received legal punishment for and already had been severely injured for, crippling her right hand permanently? She’s just supposed to live with this and get treated like this for the rest of her life and its okay because Amber is mentally ill? Sal deserves this and has no right to complain, even though the actual victim she held hostage has forgiven her and wishes no ill will upon her?
That’s bullshit and a disgusting line of thought. Nothing Sal has done justifies Amber’s actions in any way and saying that she “brought the wrath of a mentally ill girl on herself” ignores any and all responsibility of Amber’s and blames Sal entirely for Amber’s actions and behavior and that’s just wrong. Sales is not an irredeemable monster who deserves to be endless hounded and treated like a criminal long after she paid her due. And its complete bullshit and unhealthy to encourage these behavior in Amber and act like it’s okay for her to have violent tendencies because Sal deserves it.
She isn’t being endlessly hounded. It just seems that way because a month or two has been stretched out over 8 years real time. Sal’s past caught up with her, she tried to make amends, then an hour later she tried to act like she did nothing wrong and she and Amber started brawing. At the end of this, they both deserve the chance to move on. But given Willis’ writing style, I expect one or both to suffer horribly.
I.
Wow.
I actually.
Like this a lot.
It’s her moment.
I was so worried about this, but this is like. When SOMEBODY confronted someone ELSE in a ANOTHER universe that Willis made.
I. This is so much better than I thought it would be? Like.
Go Amber!
There is nothing about what Amber is doing that is good in any way. Not that Sal is being much better mind you, but this is an incident that happened years ago and she’s taking it out on someone who at the time was a child and who has already paid her dues for this… They both suck right now, doesn’t make them bad people, but they’re both actively going out of their way to make bad decisions right now because they’re angry.
Sal had her say in the last strip, now it’s Amber’s turn.
How about it’s not anyone’s turn, because there’s no fucking way to justify this amount of stupid in both their parts. They’re both adults, even if they’re only college age, they should both be mature enough to use their fucking words.
Both of them got really fucked up by the incident. It’s not like you can just magically get over that.
I am at a loss for words in how you can find this encouraging, I see this as Amber’s worst moment.
I don’t know if its been said, but has anyone considered this fight could be mostly in Ambers head? If shes really having trouble differentiating between personas its possible shes snapped and is imagining Sals aggression and going after her as a result. It actually seems as if Sal is trying to calm Amber down in that second to last panel.
sorry, third to last
But Amber’s delusions and flashbacks tend to be colored differently… This panel has a lot of red, but it’s mostly blood. Besides, this is pretty much in character for both of them.
the entire background shifted from blue to red at the start of the fight though, and Im not Saying sal isnt fighting back, in fact she could have even been all for it at first, not expecting it to go so far, just my interpretation though.
The background’s been going more red with the sunset all along, since before the fight started.
Which is a very nice thematic way to use the established “red panels” without them actually being red panels.
Does Amber have a history with hallucinations? It would be weird to just pull that out of nowhere, where she goes twenty some odd years with many mental health problems, but no hallucinations, then one day out of nowhere she’s completely unhinged from reality and unaware of her surroundings.
she didnt start having lapses of memory until recently either.
What you’re describing would be the equivalent of starting “lapses of memory” with a whole year. It’s just a whole lot all at once.
eh, it just didnt make a lot of sense to me that sal, who seems like shes -trying- to make amends over her past would go after Amber mostly unprovoked like that, she would definitely defend herself, but eh.
I don’t know if “Mostly unprovoked” is how I’d describe this. Amber’s been stalking/harassing Sal for months, and now she finds out it’s because Amber has a victim complex over a run in they had as children.
This deranged psychopath clearly isn’t going anywhere on her own. She’s been holding this grudge for years.
yeah hallucinations are a symptom of schizophrenia, not DID. (I knew someone who had to deal with them. he literally saw dead people. and got used to ignoring it. Magical Pixie Fuuunn! 😛 )
I mean schizophrenia tends to be a different can of worms than alters and dissociative conditions like DID.
Like one is a compartmentalization and dissociation of the self and the other is experiencing hallucinatory events. And even then, most hallucinations don’t seem to be quite so… clear.
But I mean, maybe, there’s an outside chance it’s a fantasy, but I fear it’s actually happening.
I predict the police are about to arrive and do a “Michael Brown” on Sal. Although Sal and Amber share equal responsibility for this mess, they will not be treated equally by the law. Keep in mind that my predictions are often wrong.
Amber is more like Blaine than she is her mother.
And I bet if Blaine had some tragic ass backstory you guys wouldn’t be so forgiving to him so…
(A) Yeah, Mike was dead-on in calling that years ago.
(B) Yes, but a few things.
(B.1) Dumbing of Age is a collection of Coming of Age stories. As a protagonist in said collection, we expect Amber to have faults, to fall down, and to learn to pick herself back up. What we are seeing here is definitely in the “fall down” part of that stock arc. So while Willis may subvert expectations in the end, our sympathies go to her easily because even as we recognize she is wrong now, we retain hope that, being a young protagonist, she will grow and become a better person.
(B.2) Less meta, Blaine is a middle-aged adult (probably in or close to his 40s), and is fairly set in his ways. Amber is what, 18? Maybe 17 or 19 on the outside? She’s still very malleable, and likely to change and grow even if this wasn’t a coming of age story. So while we can recognize that Blaine and Amber are both abusers, Amber still has the possibility of growing out of it, and Blaine is very unlikely to.
And *that* said, in criminal justice there’s actually a weird turn-around. While physical abuse from a woman is less likely to be reported at all (men aren’t nice to men who report “I was hit by a girl” to police), when it is reported, the punishment tends to be more severe then a similar crime done by a man.
Amber is definitely malleable
You might even say she’s
O’Malleable
I regret my word choice and this comment section needs an edit button.
Amber is nothing like Blaine. She never for example, beat the living shit out of Danny.
About the title of today’s strip… Mas Oyama, the founder of Kyokushin Karate, used to train by kicking trees. I believe the Kyokushin school continues to use this training method today.
I thought it was a reference to a Van Damme movie.
Kickboxer?
I have no doubt this is true. But I’m pretty sure it’s a Batman reference.
This is Willis, so odds are it’s either a reference to Batman or to Transformers.
For some reason, I suddenly want one of those DnD alignment posters with th Dumbing of Age characters.
Has that been done before?
If so, can someone send me a link?
I don’t think DnD accounts for the insane, in this case the insane being Amber.
they do, its called chaotic lol
Chaotics are not insane, they just disregard the method in favor of the means. DnD is very clear about alignment, Evil is Self Serving, Good is serving the greater good. Lawful is doing things by the book, chaotic is doing things as you please. Chaotic characters don’t live by a code, they just have a clearly defined purpose. None of these alignments address their mental stability.
Something I’ve seen before is that the D&D alignment chart would be served a lot better by renaming “Lawful” to something along the lines of “Order/Orderly” (e.g. Orderly Good, Orderly Neutral, Orderly Evil). Lawful Good characters wouldn’t necessarily follow the laws set by, say, a Neutral Evil-aligned tyrant.
I use Structured in my homebrew system for that reason…
Chaotic Neutral most likely
I will continue by blood feud against the DnD alignment system until the day I die because it’s a vague and simplistic pile of crap. You ask 3 people to tell you a character’s alignment and you’ll get 5 answers.
Funnily enough, the INITIAL D&D alignment system was even more simplistic, with only 3 axis (axii?). It was ALMOST better than the current one, but unfortunately it was the wrong axis for that (it had Lawful, Neutral, and Chaotic, and I’ll give you a guess as to what most enemies were).
Axes. Emphasis on the second syllable (“ax-ease”).
Not to be confused with tree-killing tools, which are spelled the same, but said with the emphasis on the first syllable (ax-ezz).
The DnD Alignment chart is good for exploring how your character acts, but kind of breaks down once you try to use it on everyone. It’s a useful tool for getting into the head of how someone you are to portray might think, but a bad tool for most everything else.
In short, i think it’s a character creation tool, not a absolute moral tool. It’s a fun philosophical concept tool too though, for me…
I disagree that the alignment chart is good for exploring your character. At the very least, for getting into the head of how your character would think. It doesn’t tell you anything, but there are a lot of stereotypes about each alignment, and a lot of people just tend to look at it as an excuse to be an asshole. Like, there’s a reason chaotic evil/chaotic characters in general tend to just be murderhobos.
“Well, I’m Chaotic Evil, so that means every time I rape, murder, and pillage an entire village, I’m in character.”
Can it be useful for character building? Sure. But there’s a reason there’s a million rpg horror stories about character alignment.
I recently had a session with a character who decided to take a dump in a tea pot and later tried to rape a sleeping dwarf paladin we stumbled upon in a haunted house.
I didn’t find that funny.
Came to find out that his character was a homebrew cleric that switched between Lawful Good and Chaotic Evil whenever he landed a melee attack. The concept was interesting, but I don’t think it warranted those actions from.
And in case anyone is interested, he did not rape the dwarf. My druid tried to burn him to get him away, and the paladin himself woke up when attacked and used divine smite on him as punishment.
The tea pot thing sounds hilarious, but otherwise… Nah rape shouldn’t be used lightly like that
Welp, I still want to see one of those, but it looks no one is sending me a link and I don’t see one using google.
I’m not good with those types of programs to make my own, but I can at least write down my picks.
Lawful Good: Joyce, Roz
Neutral Good: Dorothy, Danny
Chaotic Good: AG, Sal
Lawful Neutral: Sarah, Amber
True Neutral: Billie, Ruth
Chaotic Neutral: Walky, Carla
Lawful Evil: Toe Dad, Mike
Neutral Evil: Ryan, Mary
Chaotic Evil: Blaine, Penny
*I used http://easydamus.com/alignment.html as a reference*
Lawful good: Joyce, Amazigirl, Dorothy
Neutral good: Sarah, Dina
Chaotic good: Sal, Roz
Lawful neutral: Stacy
True neutral: Billie, Ruth, Danny, Ethan, Walky
Chaotic neutral: Mike, Carla
Lawful Evil: Mary, Robin
Neutral evil: Ryan, Penny, Blaine
Chaotic evil: Toe dad
I had hoped this fight would be more evenly matched. Doesn’t look like it, tho.
I hope this doesn’t end up with someone calling the cops and Sal getting shot.
Also: is it just me, or does Sal seem to have stopped fighting and tries to talk, while Amber keeps on with the violence?
I think Willis has said nobody’s going to die in the comic. With how slow time moves in the comic, it would just take too long to deal with the aftermath.
Yeah, I’ve been focusing on Amber maybe maiming her but that is a reasonable fear. Non-lethal for Gangler’s reason.
Sal did throw the first punch so just because she wants to now talk doesn’t mean Amber has to and Amber would be a fool to stop because while Sal may (or may not have) stopped doesn’t mean Sal can’t start it up again
Amber seemed quite ready to start that fight; she clenched her fists first, right? I think they where coming for eachother at that point.
Sal trying to reason with Amber when she’s losing rings a little hollow.
Mostly it looks like Sal’s stopped fighting because she keeps getting hit and can’t get a blow in.
It also looks like Amber stops in the last panel, possibly because Sal’s down. Of course it could just be a pose for dramatic effect before going back to beating. Or Sal could make a comeback.
But it’s still a good sign for Amber – she’s not in the kind of rage we’ve seen before.
I think we’re just seeing one person attacking and talking and then the other person attacking and talking. In comparison to yesterday.
Speaking from experience, it occurs to me: Amber is dangerous here because she may think that defeating her arch nemesis will un-break her world, as if her thought process is ‘if I’d have just finished the job back then, everything would be fixed.’ But like… *everything.* Her father hitting her mother, the divorce, hell, who knows what else she blames on That Moment. And I’d put all my money on Blaine drumming this very idea into her head, because when the head parental figure is telling you that everything is your fault, you internalize the heck outta that. And how does one even begin to unpack that kind of worldview, where a) you’re the center of attention because b) everything negative that’s ever happened in the world is somehow entirely your fault? (Therapy, the answer is therapy.)
I’m also a bit morbidly amused that I had my own similar breakdown, in college, in October, only 18 years ago and not in that specific town. Too bad, though — I’d like to think having Blowjob Cat in my vicinity would’ve amused me enough to keep me grounded. :p
Even without getting into the psycho analysis, we have two important pieces of information for Amber: Blaine and Ryan. For Blaine, the only thing that stopped her from hurting him more was Danny. We don’t know when/why she stopped hurting Ryan, but we do know she didn’t stop until he was good and hurt.
So in an “Amber wins” scenario, we don’t have much reason to think she’ll stop before she’s forced.
Sal, IIRC, does not have that kind of history. Her fistifcuffs skill is mostly an informed attribute and hasn’t been well demonstrated, and we haven’t seen what she’d do when she gets someone on the ground in a “seeing red” moment. It’s possible she’d keep kicking until Amber’s in the ICU, but we don’t have reason to expect it.
I think she stopped with Ryan because she thought he was dead. I don’t think she’ll go that far with Sal. Ryan was easier to justify.
I also wouldn’t be surprised if we saw a moment where Amber attempts to keep going (cue red panels and sadistic grin eerily reminiscent of Blaine) only to be stopped by some combination of Ethan/Danny/Dorothy. The sheer looks of horror on their faces would likely click something in her head to the tune of ‘oh shit I’m a failure, time to run away in a terrified panic,’ similar to the moment on Garbage Roof when she ran away from Sal and had that staircase scene. Not sure if Walky will be around this time to de-escalate, though — or if he even *could*, at this point.
I’d fully expected that to be the case, but she stops, at least momentarily, in this last panel. She would be doing that if she was in the same state as when she was beating on Blaine or Ryan.
I’m really hoping this fight ends soon, because I’d much rather see Sal and Amber talking about their respective pasts without trying to beat the shit out of each other.
I think Amber has already stopped it.
I feel so bad for both of them here. They are both shadowboxing demons.
Demons of self-hatred, of guilt, of neglect and abuse at the hands of those who are supposed to love you, of all those small little cuts that make it so you feel like you are breathing glass just to live.
But those demons aren’t here. Sal isn’t going to get a loving family that sees her if she defeats Amber (because she never had it), she’s not going to get an escape from institutional racism, she’s not going to escape the way you are treated like an eternal fuckup when you’ve got a record.
Similarly Amber is not going to get a time before her slip, nor a dad who respected her and her mother, nor a way to escape the guilt and pain of blaming herself for her dad’s violent fuckery.
Just like with Sal, that’s gone or never was. They are displacing onto an easy “foe”, one who can be punched or dragged into submission, to avoid confronting with the big ugliness of their situations.
It’s easier for Sal to blame Amber for that horrible night and its fallout because she can’t fight cops who turn a blind eye to violence to those being arrested, especially if they are black. She can’t fight what her parents did to her afterwards. It’s easier to put that all on Amber and believe defeating her will mean anything that matters.
And in the exact same way we see Amber, trying to bring order to her alter-ed state in a way that will not at all support intercommunication and integration. Trying to put it all on one alter to show a ghost, a ghost who didn’t matter, because it wouldn’t have changed Blaire’s bullshit excuses for being a fuck.
This will only end in tragedy for both of them, at least in the short term. But hopefully in the long term, they will grow to see that while tragedies do leave their mark and define them, you can’t hold on to disproportionate grudges for things that were never someone’s faults and just assigning a person to represent a more chaotic horror doesn’t mean that horror doesn’t need to be detangled and actually processed.
tl;dr These two need to punch each other less and actually find support networks for survivors of abuse and neglect.
Holy shit, welcome back, Cerberus! Really good to see you around again.
Literally every time I see your avatar I’m like, “Hey, you can’t use that avatar! That’s Cerberus’s.”
You lost me at institutional racism. That undermines what could have otherwise been a decent observation.
As for loving parents, Sal did have that. Her mother wanted to keep her away from people who would do her harm. And guess what, Sal was in fact hanging out with a bad crowd before her money was taken.
Wtf? Are we seriously doing the pro-Linda bs again?
Yeah…nope. Linda’s not loving. Not by any reasonable definition of the word
Was she hanging out with a bad crowd because Linda said so? You really can’t just rely on things Linda says.
Yeah, Marcie was really a risk to hang out with, and cops totes don’t target black kids. Yikes man.
I’m going to mostly echo what everyone else said about Linda… except I do think she DOES love Sal, but she’s expressed that love in a pretty twisted way that makes that love toxic. (The disagreement here would be mostly semantic, about whether to call that thing bad-love or not-love.) But that’s not what I really want to respond to here.
Mostly I’ve got to say… the mention of institutional racism undermines everything else Cerb said? WTF?
Lemme start of by NOT addressing whether institutional racism exists in our society. There’s a lot to show it exists, but I’m nowhere near the most qualified person here to show it, and even if someone believes it isn’t there it still makes absolutely no sense to say it undermines Cerb’s point about these two lashing out at each other as a proxy for lashing out at their own demons.
First, Cerb’s mention of institutional racism was a single bullet point among dozens. It was a single supporting point to a single aspect of her post. Discard the notion entirely, as some people are wont to do, and her point still stands. Short one item of support, if you want to dismiss it, but still with plenty of solid support left.
And second, even if you don’t believe institutional racism exists in our society, SAL CLEARLY DOES. It’s come up something like a half a dozen times with her. Even in this hypothetical of a post-racism society that I am unadvisedly engaging with, Sal’s belief ON ITS OWN is enough to support Cerb’s point, because Cerb was talking about whether Sal can escape it… and if, as you might perhaps want to argue, it doesn’t exist, that would not make it any easier to escape the supposedly-mistaken belief that it does.
Without my commenting on whether institutional racism exists in this country (again, I’m leaving that to better-qualified individuals), I still can’t help getting the sense that the mere presence of its mention blinded you to and turned you against the merits of her overall points in a manner I could only describe as irrational.
a) you can dispute institutional racism when black people aren’t being shot by cops for doing stuff like walking away peacefully with their hands in the air.
b) I need to get some popcorn to watch the show of BBCC murdering you in the comments section.
Oh for fuck’s sake, this is the crap I wake up to? Knew I should’ve reblogged that chain letter last night.
The only person we saw Sal hanging out with was Marcie before her money was taken. She knew Asher, but she didn’t seem to like him very much and also made sure nothing she took from him was stolen.
Yeah, she smoked before Linda took her stuff. As Sal pointed out, Marcie didn’t smoke (at the time). Mommy Dearest on the other hand? Yep. Linda can look in the mirror if she wants someone to whine at about her daughter smoking.
Second of all, Linda and Charles have both been a font of emotional abuse, not to mention financial abuse. Linda doesn’t like Marcie? Okay, we’ll hold Sal’s money over her head until she does what Linda wants and ditches her best (only) friend.
Also, completely dumping your kid in another state and not speaking to them for five years (unless, apparently, you’re lecturing her about how she’s a failure, holy shit what is wrong with these two) is some serious emotional neglect. You’re basically saying ‘yeah, no, so long as they don’t actually die, I don’t give a shit’. And when they actually do see her, Charles starts by insulting Sal to her face.
Not that things were much better when Linda DID speak to her. We’ve still yet to see Linda speak to her daughter without being a complete and utter jackass. Including screaming at her while she’s barely more than a toddler for doing something small children do and climbing on a jungle gym (“Sally, you get down from there this instant” is sufficient, hell, I’ll take, “Sally Elizabeth Walkerton, you get down from there this instant”, screaming and swearing at a five year old is not okay).
We also get to see her blatantly favouring Walky over Sal, up to and including only raising her voice at Sal when she and Walky are doing the EXACT SAME THING (running around and laughing in a professional environment). (“David! SALLY!”)
That’s all without digging into how her expectations of perfection have kneecapped Walky’s self worth and ability to improve.
Linda’s not a loving mother. None of the things she does are loving. She might believe she loves her kids, maybe she does actually love them, but frankly, it doesn’t matter. Love’s not enough when you treat those kids like that.
“If that’s love, it comes at much too high a cost,” to go with Amber’s quoting Wicked in today’s strip.
I love that quote and I’m pretty sure making it makes you cool.
Loving your child and being a loving parent aren’t necessarily related. Linda is, in my opinion, an awful mother who loves her daughter and tried to protect her by doing all kinds of wrong things, effectively making things even worse.
I mean, take my grandmother. She loves me deeply. She’s unable to treat me with respect or care or basic decency. Or take the guy who raped me. He probably still loves me, he’s still trying to get back in touch with me. He expressed his love by possessing me. Love is a funny thing, it can be the best and the worst thing in the world, depending on how it is expressed. It’s still love.
Linda doesn’t really match my personal definition of love, which is why I say she doesn’t love her daughter, but I believe she thinks she does and she might match what others might call love.
At some point I chose the definition of love in Frozen. But people who don’t like you can still like you. They can still feel possessiveness, attachment, and even affection towards you.
The truth is a parent using this definition can love their child but make huge mistakes, and parent can also be confused/lying to themselves about there own motivations and think they love there child when they don’t.
Linda I believe is lying to herself when she says she loves Sal.
For the record I think Blue, and Yellow Diamond fell somewhere in between making honest mistakes and just telling themselves they loved Pink Diamond.
Not using this definition a person can name possessiveness, lust, obsession, ect. love and use it to justify all sorts of shitty behavior.
Sorry people who don’t love can still like you etc.
you do it for her
That’s how you know you can win…
Cerberus didn’t lose anyone else, I promise. It’s very nice to see them and their very thoughtful analysis, as many people here have said. If you’re going to disagree because noticing the very obviously author-intended examples of institutional racism sets you off, you should reconsider if you aren’t the one screwing up.
That’s almost the sadest part in all this – neither of them has ANYTHING to gain from this confrontation and everything to loose.
Well… Amber can gain the approval of her inner Blaine-voice… THAT IS NOT A GOOD THING!
Trying to scare off your dangerous stalker is not, on the face of it, all that likely to actually WORK, but that’s not the same thing as there NOT BEING anything to gain.
I don’t believe Sal thinks that this fight will fix her life. Sal is grounded, she knows that this fight won’t alleviate anything besides her own frustration, and even then only momentarily.
Amber on the other hand, I’m not so sure realizes the reality that she will still have the same problems as she had before the fight
She’s overcoming her dependancy on Amazigirl. But I’m starting to wonder if she functioned better when she embraced Amazigirl.
Yay Cerb! Great to see you again!
You put into words a lot of what I’ve been trying to find words for for the past few days now. Do either of them deserve to get beaten up like this? No. Should they stop fighting and either sort things out or settle for ignoring each others’ presence? Yes. Is there any rational reason for them to fight each other like this? No. Are they going to fight anyway? Yes, of course, because rationality is afk. You put your finger on why in a way I’ve been struggling to articulate.
Yeah, that’s what’s so tragic.
CERBERUS!
Good to see you around! \o/
Good to hear from you again, Cerb. Hope life is treating you better.
And thanks everyone for the well wishes.
Hi, Cerberus! <3
Oh man I’ve missed your comments Cerberus, DoA just isn’t the same without them. Whenever big stuff happens in the story I always end up scrolling through to find them and they’ve been tragically missing. Welcome back, and I hope life has been treating you better.
Yay, Cerberus is back! <3
Yeah, shadowboxing is a great way to put it. It’s so easy to focus on making one of them the villain, but the real point is they’re both damaged and this isn’t good for either of them, even in the ways they want it to be.
Maybe this time Willis will take this off in a direction we really don’t expect: some healing.
And yeah, it’s good to hear from you again.
The real question is, Amber: Can you defeat yourself?
Depends on what part of herself you mean. If you mean can Amber defeat her demons? Who knows, but today her demons certainly won…
I disagree Maki. Amazing-girl is also one of Amber’s demons. Where she channeled her fear, frustrations, and inability to deal with the real problems Amber has. Even though it was a destructive (as mental breakthroughs can be), she defeated the Amazing-Girl demon inside her today. We may never see her again.
Yes. Yes she can. And she frequently does.
Now if they were guys, and this were a typical movie/TV show/ancient story (Gilgamesh and Enkidu becoming BFFs after fighting) OR this were a Marvel story, Amber and Sal are going to besties after this.
I imagine (assuming that someone sledgehammers some sense into both women’s minds) that they’d need to get over the shameful memory avoidance behaviour before reconciling.
If they were dudes in any of the aforementioned media, it would be something they bonded over. “Man, we’re both crazy!” “Like, I know bro-sef!”
Unrelated to my other comments, I’m pretty sure that blood is from a punch in the mouth, but I can’t read it as anything but her having bit Sal
I dunno, Amber probably does fight dirty like that.
I don’t doubt it (other than, maybe consciousness of bloodbourne ailments? Maybe she doesn’t want hep?), but at the same time, I think that’s weird and specific enough of a move that we’d see it happening.
It’s from the uppercut in the last strip.
I know that, in my head, but that’s not how I parse it when I look at it.
Amber, you don’t need to prove to your father that you can beat people up. What you need to do is realize he’s a dipstick and that you should let him go and stop letting his perverse views pollute your life.
I think she’s proving to herself that she doesn’t need Amazigirl.
:/
Can’t decide if this will help Amber or not.
Defied gravity, uh-huh. Nice callback.
In a way, it reminds us that there is still a little girl somewhere deep in Amber’s head that believes in fairy tales, superheroes and happily ever after.
You know, as much as Rorschach does.
Amber is NOT Rorschach. That’s like comparing Batman to Dexter Morgan.
Of course not, but like Rorschach it sounds like Amber has a skewed idea of what constitutes a “hero” or a “happy ending” at this point.
I don’t think Amber believes in happy endings, but a person with so much pain and anger and fear, you have to believe that there IS an ending.
Her talk about not needing Amazigirl makes me think she’s working past those delusions, but I’m not sure how well she’ll do without them.
I just hope now they had their climax they can sit down and have a chat to clear things up.
Maybe it’ll be cathartic, and they’ll get along after this fight, like comic-book characters. I mean, it won’t, and they won’t, but it’s a nice thought.
Oh, Amber… You can’t “defeat” people in real life. I mean, you also “defeated” your dad and as far as I recall, that didn’t make anything better for you in the long run. What are you hoping.to achieve with this “victory”?
You can defeat people. The problem is her real enemies aren’t people.
There’s a thought percolating in my mind, I’m not sure if I can put it to words, but here goes a try:
People saying that this is cathartic for Amber, that it’s letting her fight her mental demons, that’s she’s getting what she wanted: yes this is true and it’s TERRIBLE.
Amber is literally using a woman of colour as a prop for her own narrative (that Sal never signed up for) and using said person as a punching bag for the trauma she has over her father’s abuse for years. Sal is a person but Amber is not seeing that right now. Amber is seeing the demons that haunt her. She’s dehumanizing Sal.
Yes thanks. I haven’t replied to any of the ‘I think this is good for her’ comments, but you worded this well.
That and it doesn’t really matter if it’s good for her, it’s not appropriate/acceptable to stalk and try to beat someone to deal with that.
I mean, Sal actually signed up for this one? She was all up for this confrontation like two strips ago, and she held Ethan at knifepoint way back when?
She said she’d be interested in a fistfight (Amber agreed and brought up her fists to start it, so it’s possible Sal really didn’t mean right now, either), none of what Derek said is just a fistfight.
Also yeah, she held Ethan by knife when she was thirteen and incredibly desperate, didn’t hurt him, apologized and discussed it with him when she met him again, and Ethan’s okay, so I don’t really know what that has to do with this conversation?
She wasn’t THAT desperate, considering Nicest Clerk Ever had just pointed her to an out that didn’t involve holding a knife to another kid’s neck.
Also, it was Sal who brought up “parental response to the incident”, just last strip, literally asking Amber how her parents had treated her. This speech? Sal didn’t just sign up for it, she created the enrollment sheet.
It wasn’t an out because it didn’t save Marcie from her injury, something Sal blamed herself for, which is what she was actually desperate to do.
Sal had already made peace with Ethan about threatening his life and holding him hostage, so that point is null if you’re counting it towards “Sal deserves to be beaten” scoresheet.
She made peace with him and then an hour later ranted about not doing anything wrong.
This is exactly why I have found myself less and less on Amber’s side. Yeah, she’s had a shitty life, and has plenty of demons, but her refusal to address this in a mature manner has resulted in her dehumanizing just about everyone, including herself. It’s clear that she can’t handle people as humans, and maybe that’s her mental illness talking and maybe that’s her escapism into comics talking, but either way it’s not (to my mind) an acceptable way to live. Someone needs to sit both these girls down and say “you both need therapy, and maybe you’ll need to go through a bunch of therapists to find the right one, but you’re too young to insist that “it’s not working, so it’s not worth it.” Therapy is a long road, with no express lane, but it’s an important one.
Am I seriously the only person here to question just how much Sal and Amber are able to TALK while fighting? Several sentences per punch, never interrupted by an “oof” or “ugh” when their opponent lands a blow? No running out of breath (despite one of them being a smoker) or losing a complex train of thought because CRAP DUCK now what was I saying?
I mean, it’s like something out of a comic.
Talking is a free action.
Intimidation is a skill roll, though. Don’t those count as actions?
Is this Intimidation? It looks more like Present Exposition.
Maybe they’re both making diplomacy rolls with major circumstance penalties.
“What *punch* do *jab* you *punch* mean , *punch* a *jab* 20 *punch* is *kick* not *punch* enough?”
Writing fight scenes, especially emotional ones, is super awkward, because so many things need to be expressed and actions need to happen. Though, I only know this from a (text) writing standpoint, not an comic one.
A certain magical index is a little famous for this.
In the light novels it’s not glaringly obvious how much speech is happening in how little time.
But in the anime suddenly you can see as the hero will start swinging his fist, then go on an entire prolonged monologue before his fist hits its target.
It’s almost like you are reading a comic.
I see Blaine noticed Emily contesting my assertion that he was the undisputed top of shitty people list yesterday and decided to retroactively do something about it. Sometimes, Willis decision to not kill anyone in DoA is really disappointing.
On other notes, Sal loses her first fight, and Amber wins either one or two, depending if you count “stopped hitting her.”
We already knew Blaine was a domestic abuser so that doesn’t change my stance: abducting your child at gunpoint so you can ship them off to be tortured into pretending to be straight is worse.
I guess we’ll have to limit our agreement to them both deserving to be hit by trucks.
I can agree with that.
Your avatar looks familier and it’s bugging me. What show is it from?
Reverse image searched it. Yuru yuri
Yeah it’s Chinatsu from Yuru Yuri.
Bummer. I wanted to order book 7, but it’s $30 for the book and *$34* for shipping, which sucks. 8(
I guess I need to wait until a bunch of books pile up, but that will preclude me from KS’ing book 8 onwards. 8(
We’ve reached the point where Danny and Ethan need to pin Sal and Amber and for them and Dorothy to pound some sense and perspective into both combatants’ heads with a suitably heavy and blunt instrument.
Sal – Yes, Amber stalked you and got you into the vigilante life. However, she didn’t force you to do anything. You are the one who prioritised your anger and sense of violent grievance against the world’s injustices over Marcie’s needs. You decided that beating on bad guys was worth even her losing her job.
Amber – Yes, your life has been shit but Sal is not your enemy; Blaine’s abuse and the damage it did to your mind and your emotional control are your enemies. Stop hurting the wrong people for your problems.
Both women have to understand that the other is not their enemy and never has been. If they can’t tolerate each other enough to help themselves and the other heal, then they need to agree to keep away from each other in future.
You’ll notice that I didn’t address the issue of what happened that night at the convenience store. That’s because, in a very real way, I don’t think that either girl was entirely themselves. They were both in the process of finally coming loose from the end of a long tether and, whilst their choices were their own, I’m not entirely sure that either were capable or competent to make reasonable or proportionate choices at that moment.
I mean, you still have the stabbing, the stalking and the feelings of manipulation to deal with before you get into everything else with Sal’s problems with AG. And by the time Sal stepped in with those guys at the rally, it was to keep someone she knew was a rapist from knocking AG’s lights out. That’s a bit different from deciding that Marcie doesn’t matter, punching people does.
I really hope that Ethan learns from this to be less wimpy and stop enabling Amber’s behavior.
Wow, this reboot of The Breakfast Club is pretty dark.
“No, I told you. Not Amazi-Girl. Not today.
BLAINE.
Today, BLAINE defeats you. BLAINE can defeat you.”
THAT…puts a lotta stuff into context when you switch it out like that
So not only has Sal lost her best friend who she tried to save and ended up down this dark rabbit hole to a genuine asshole who apparently refuses to accept her behind whatever twisted reason she has, but now she might get maimed or otherwise by a stalker who she mentally destroyed ages ago in a failed robbery that she gave up on.
Not defending Sal on what she did ages ago, but Ethan seems to have relatively gotten over the hump that was that trauma. Sure Amber has more to it than just that one instance, but in this case, I feel like if Sal loses anything else (and Marcie STILL doesn’t want to be her friend) than Sal is absolutely due for some wins.
I think I’m kind of over this whole Amber/Amazi-Girl story.
Or maybe Walky gets in the middle of it and gets hurt. Probably by Sal because she can’t ever have a good time. That’ll be heart crushing for everybody now wouldn’t it?
Ethan wanting to make peace doesn’t mean he’s ‘over it’. He’s not over his mom being a **** but he maintains peaceful relations. Basically, he’s the oppsite of Amber. She has too much anger and he doesn’t have enough.
For someone who claims to not want to be like Blaine Amber is doing a spectacularly shitty job of it.
Continuity of abuse and all that. Stuff like this is all too common.
Amber’s certainly got rage issues and she’s certainly unfairly taking her problems out on Sal, but I just don’t see the comparison to Blaine.
That’s nothing like Blaine at all. Blaine’s an emotional abuser. Deliberate long term manipulation of vulnerable people for his own ends.
Amber gets angry and violent. Where’s the similarity?
It’s definitely his influence on her driving her, but she’s not at all like him.
Blaine gets physical when he has the advantage. Amber’s better than him because she gave Sal equal footing.
Gave Sal equal footing by stalking and harassing her under an assumed identity for months?
If she really wanted to give Sal equal footing she’d maim her own hand, so they’d both have to fight with the same stab wound.
It wasn’t an assumed identity. It was a split personality. We know Sal can fight whatever shape her hand is in.
The split personality from day one has been a very generous interpretation of Amber’s bullshit.
She claims she’s not responsible for what “Amazigirl” does, but that doesn’t make it so.
Of course Sal can fight with her hand like that. The question is, Can Amber?
For christ’s sake, she wore a mask while stalking Sal. It could not be a more clear attempt to avoid responsibility, no matter how valid her split personality situation could be.
She’s shown she’s perfectly capable of being “Amazigirl” without the mask when she’s not trying to be anonymous.
When Amazigirl’s not trying to be anonymous. It’s unclear how much control Amber had over Amazigirl before they stopped talking. I’m not sure she ever had any.
As Amber says, she’s saddled with Blaine’s rage, which we’ve seen in action. For instance, physically attacking Ruth in front of a corridor of witnesses, picking up a 13-year-old Mike and slamming him against the wall. The attacking Ruth example is particularly telling: that’s clearly rage pushing him past the point of acting sensibly. He even got a red panel: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/04-just-hangin-out-with-my-family/approved/
I hear that’s actually a myth. Most victims of child abuse do not grow up to become abusive parents themselves.
It’s a shitty myth that demonizes the victims of abuse, paints them as being as bad as their own abusers.
Still, unlearning your parents’ bullshit can be a difficult process for anybody. I don’t think you just turn 18 and are immediately free of all the ways your twisted upbringing has influenced your worldview.
Hopefully Amber will get there some day.
Thank you, gangler
Ehhhhh, not saying Amber’s in the right here, but Sal provoked her and escalated this at every opportunity. She’s just as much to blame for this.
I’m honestly pretty mad at both of them right now.
At least in this particular instance.
Sal has done literay nothing to Amber up to this point since the robbery 5 years ago. Amber stalked her. Amber villified her. Amber constantly went after her. In this fight while Sal landed the first punch it was Amber who goaded it into a fight, not Sal.
They’re only “Equally to blame” if you ignore the months leading up to this scene.
just wondering how many celphones are recording StabbyGirl punching Coolgirl from nearby windows… Really, this is pretty much how “stand your ground” and “self defense” got a bad name…
We know there are security cameras watching the entrances…
Punched a lot of trees, made planks and sticks, mined for ore, built a farm, built a fortress, went into the Nether, fought an Ender Dragon…
Don’t forget the villagers! Robbed and/or ripped off a lot of villagers!
Rode a lot of pigs, dug straight down a lot…
Two surprises:
I didn’t know that’s when Blaine started physically hitting Stacy. Truth or more unreliable narrator, with Amber load more blame onto her own shoulders out of self-loathing?
Amber reciting that she nearly got herself killed precisely seven times.
I think Blaine hit her before, but that particular night he cited the robbery as the reason.
Is this the first time Ethan’s heard Amber “nearly killed herself seven times”? Does he really know how deep the rabbit hole is?
Lots of plot groundwork this week!
I think its less in a scary suicide kind of way, more in a scary “reckless idiot” kinda way. Like when she chased down toedad
That was the point Sal made to Danny, leading up to the breakup between AG and Danny.
Which reminds me. Is “the new sorrows of young W.” known in the US? The protagonist tells his story after he died and still insists, it was all an accident. But his disregard for his own safety was so high as to make no difference.
Tbh at this point, I wonder if part of why Amber’s so set on fighting Sal is because she found no closure beating up her father, so she’s hoping that if she beats Sal up she’ll manage to find it. It’s not gonna work though, and probably the best we can hope for is that she’ll realize her coping methods suck instead of just looking for some other target to project her need for catharsis onto.
Today Amber goes to jail…
Just occurred to me: If “Amber *can* defeat [Sal].”, as in, if Amber is capable of doing (perceived) good, where does that leave Amazi-Girl in the DID table?
I think she’s getting rid of Amazigirl. My question is whose gonna run campus security?
I don’t know much about DID, but I think you can’t just “get rid” of an alter like that. From what I understand, you get the alters to play nice with each other and keep switching who runs the meatsuit, you integrate them into a new persona that’s made up of the alters (effectively “killing” the alters in the process, which is part of why integration is somewhat shooting for the stars), or they start hijacking the body (which has already happened to Amber at least once).
I don’t think you can get rid of alters in real life but Amber’s already an inaccurate portrayal of DID.
I think she’s trying to get rid of Amazi-Girl. No reason to think it’s working.
We know it hasn’t been.
How so? She’s more accurate than most IME. The major difference, iirc, is that they weren’t fully split from the start, because the DID was a bit of a retcon.
Was it a retcon? I got the impression that Amber slowly developed DID as her condition deteriorated.
iirc someone said that willis knew nothing about DID at first, but the discussion in the comments about amber potentially having DID made him decide to make that canon.
DID isn’t usually something that develops slowly; normally it comes from extreme and lengthy childhood trauma. (although once that door is open, making new alters is… a little too easy)
http://itswalky.tumblr.com/post/159962485017/this-is-probably-too-much-like-is-dina-on-the
Last time Willis made a statement on the subject, he said any resemblance of Amber’s problems to actual diagnoses was unintentiona. He respects that she’s become important to some fans with DID, but she’s also an incredibly problematic depiction of mental illness, so he’s chosen to stop short of making it canon, but also never directly disprove the notion either.
My impression is that Amazi-Girl was a useful role for Amber to play as a way of channeling her anger. At least it started that way…
I don’t think the point of Amazi-girl was to do good I think the point of Amazi-girl was to make a version of herself that could face against someone the old her would usually cower and hide from.
I was joking about campus security. Because they never seem to be around.
Sorry thought you were talking to me. Sleep deprived.
I’m pretty sure that’s not true.
The point of Amazi-Girl was to channel that rage and anger into something useful, since it needed to go somewhere and to keep Amber (the monster, remember?) from hurting people.
She didn’t really cower from Sal, though it wasn’t always obvious. She ran to keep from attacking her in a rage. See her little chat with the Amazi-Girl costume after cutting up Ryan: I don’t need you any more. You’ve failed. I’m irredeemable.
Well, from hurting people she didn’t decide deserved to be hurt.
Ryan Clearly deserved it but she still feels remorse about their encounter.
I think her remorse is much less about hurting him and much more about doing so in a berserker frenzy.
….Ok that makes a lot more sense actually.
People nearby: “This is a lot of drama. Would you go back to hitting each other now please?”
What I’m currently wondering is the fallout. Especially regarding Sal’s and Amber’s friends. How will they react?
My prediction: Danny will end up supporting Amber and accusing Sal of causing the fight. Ethan seems mature enough to realize from what he just saw that Amber needs help. The same goes for Dorothy.
Marcie (who, even if she’s not around, is bound to learn of this fight) will end up accusing Sal (of course). I wonder whom Walky and Joyce will support…
I think Joyce will side with Sal because she’s in love with her. I’m not sure she even knows who Amber is.
She knows amber as the girl who stabbed up her attempted rapist
Also I really don’t think Danny will just blindly take ambers side like that, especially knowing how she can be sometimes
I think Danny will have trouble picking a side because he’s known for being indecisive and non confrontational. If he manages to pick a side, it will be a huge step for his character arc, and if he doesn’t readers will continue to unfairly shit on him.
Why is it necessary to “pick a side”?
My side is therapy all around.
My kinda side right here.
She also knows Amber as Ethan’s ex-girlfriend…
Now that I think of it, does Danny know Amber dissociates or does he think she ‘just’ has emotional issues.
I don’t think he’s got the full picture, but he’s got a better idea than anyone else does. Even Ethan, who hasn’t seen as much of her this year, when the divide has gotten much clearer.
Oh no, Amber, it’s not that “today Amber defeats you”; what’s real here is this:
“Today, Amber and Amazi-girl become ONE IN THE SAME!”
The circle is now complete. What caused the creation of your alternate persona is now in front of you, confronting you again, and you are confronting her; the being that was born on that fateful day so many years ago has now crossed the line into your reality, and by doing so merges with you to create a new, improved, superior being, one that can handle almost anything.
I know something of this. I have been this; I have been two separate personalities, both aware of the existence of each other simultaneously. Not ‘multiple personality disorder’ or anything so exotic as that, but the other, the one that can handle all the things that the one could not, cannot handle — and over time, we became one. I was just ‘P’, then I was ‘P’ and ‘D’, and now we are the same.
Welcome to the New World, Amber, the world you can own.
Does that mean she’s going to get all of AG’s memories back at once?
Right now, it’s happening what AG was supposed to not make happen: Amber loses it and is willing to kill someone who is not threatening her life. I think it highly unlikely that this will heal her DID.
Dunno but, keep in mind, there’s a difference between getting *access* to memories and having them shoved in your face.
I have plenty of “oh right, that was a thing that happened” moments.
two separate personalities, both aware of the existence of each other simultaneously.
<armchair-diagnosis> so, OSDD-1b? </armchair-diagnosis>
goddamnit, I get all the html and escaping right but I meess up the *quotes*? lol
Standing heeeere…
I realize you were just like me…
Trying to make historyyyy…
But who’s to judge…
The right from wroooong?
When your guard is down, I think we’ll both agreeee:
That viiiioooolence breeds viiiiooooolence!
But in the end it has to be this waaaay…
In Russia Amber defeats you!
So I’ve always felt that Sal can be quite arrogant (subconsciously for sure) so getting a smackdown from someone she feels she can beat could be a catalyst for Sal to reassess whats happening in her life
I wonder if Sal still sees Marcie as a young girl in need of protection and friendship rather than the young women that she is thats making friends and has a plan for the future and is actively working towards that goal and doesn’t actually need Sals “protection” in her life
If this is true (and that’s a big if) then can Sal accept the dynamics of their friendship has changed and is Sal willing to give up a massive amount of her identity (the martyr and guilt complex specifically)
I’m assuming a large part of Sals jealousy with Malaya could be alleviated by Sal making friends of her own and not having to rely on Marcie only
Or I could be completely off the mark
“Today Amber kills you” as it appears Sal haven’t swung in awhile.
I just hope we’re done with this bullshit afterwards. Amber can go fuck herself with the stick that is surely going to come out of her arse.
Either go to therapy or stop being a crybaby with a mean streak. Batman’s got it covered.
“Direct it away from good people” Yeah, right.
Well, apart from this, it worked pretty well. How many other rageaholics are batting at 90%?
Amazigirl sometimes defines bad people as people breaking some law and its possible to egg them into a fight.
Even if Amber continues to be a super hero she needs to A. Define bad people as people who commit violence unprovoked, and B. ask if violence is the best answer this time.
Warning people about middle name Ryan would most likely have turned out better if she didn’t give away her plan.
As far as I know the only time Amazigirl was violent with non violent people was when she went after Sal(whom she made peace with) and when she gave Mike a chubby. I don’t remember the Ryan arc that well. What went wrong?
She tried to goad guys tagging a street sign into fighting her once, clearly wanting an excuse to lay it into them. http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/02-guess-whos-coming-to-galassos/shortstuff/
The thing with Ryan is that she took his picture and immediately told him she was going to upload it to social media to let everyone know he was a rapist, which directly led to him trying to grab her phone and the fight at the rally. If she had, you know, not said anything, she could have discretely done so and maybe some of the later problems that happened would be lessened. He could still find out who Dorothy was, if she had openly reported or spread it on social media and tracked her down still, but AG could also have had time to properly obfuscate the source and protect her. At the very least, without that fight, Sal and Marcie wouldn’t have had their conflict.
But then Ryan might not have been stabbed. So it was kinda better this way.
If additional opportunities to stab people is what makes an action moral in your eyes, then that explains a lot about your stances.
Are you saying it would be better if he was still running around?
Honestly, Amber was lucky he found her first, and now his parents are suing Amber’s mom. And if the fight at the rally hadn’t happened he might have less defenders trying to attack his victims.
I admit luck played a role in his defeat, but his defenders were always going to attack his victims the minute they came forward. We live in a fucked up world.
Accounting for the street sign she’s still doing better than the average anger management case.
Also, I feel like the street sign incident falls under rule of funny.
I’m not sure where this concept came from that Amber and Sal have equally misdirected anger. Amber’s almost purely fighting over what happened 5 years ago. For Sal, it’s more about what happened 5 WEEKS ago. 5 DAYS ago. 5 HOURS ago. I wanted Sal to walk away from this without fighting so badly. It would’ve been one of her crowning moments. But even though neither one of them should’ve gotten into this fight, i want to point out an actual distinction here:
Sal says she daydreamed about fighting the girl who stabbed her, seemingly without even a face to attach to the memory. Amber planned, trained, and on multiple occasions actively sought out this fight.
Pre-emptive followup: I know Sal brought up what happened 5 years ago as well, but i feel like the present day aftershocks of what happened are the lion’s share of Sal’s issue.
Maybe i’m off base on this but I think that if Sal found out Amber was the girl who stabbed her that day and the extent of their present-day interactions was Amber just avoiding her and unknowingly hooking up with her brother, it would have been a much easier pill to swallow.
A little bit of yes or no, Amber did on a couple of occasions went after Sal only this time Sal came to her. But I don’t think it was that she wanted to punch out the girl who stabbed her it’s that she really wanted to punch out Amazi-girl even said it at beginning of this book when they last fought together.
It really doesn’t matter if their anger is misdirected or not. It’s equally understandable that each of them is angry at the other, regardless of how rational or irrational their given reasons are.
It’s not like it would justify violence if either one of them was 100% correctly assigning blame to the other
It’s a shame they couldn’t have just hashed this out with a huge screaming argument instead of a fistfight, since that would have been much healthier for them both and probably no less cathartic
It’s actually pretty absurd for Amber to still be this angry at Sal especially when Ethan is fully willing to bury the hatchet. Like, she’ll feel what she feels but that doesn’t make it reasonable or fair.
Feelings don’t have to be reasonable or fair. Actions do. Because that’s what people actually have control over.
It’s great that Ethan is willing to forgive. That has no more bearing on whether Amber should have to than her unwillingness does on him.
I think one of the things being continually glossed over is from Amber’s POV, Sal is the inciting incident for her father’s physical abuse of her mom or even worsening it. We saw her father reprimanding her* for not doing anything and downplaying the situation, it’s been said instead of therapy literally everyone else wanted for her, he pushed her into self defense** That wasn’t a choice on Amber’s part as much as she makes it sound like one.
Let’s also remember these guys are still a bunch of hormonal 18 year olds at best and everything ever is the most dramatic thing that can ever happen to anyone and it happened to (general) you and no one else can possibly understand. I know there’s a lot of issue to be taken with them not sounding like a bunch of teenagers half the time but that’s what they are. I’m seeing “woman” or “adult” thrown around a lot but they won’t be done physically or mentally developing until possibly they’re out of college and that’ll deffo impact some judgement.
But back to Amber. Am I expecting Sal to know all this? Fuck no. From her perspective she got stabbed by a kid who, as far as she knew, never suffered for it. She’s had 5 years to think “oh this privileged little white girl who wasn’t even involved gets to stab me and face no consequences but I get shipped off to boarding school” and stew on what she’d do if given the chance to face that person which is completely understandable.
So I’m not saying Amber is right but I’m not going to say either of them are right or wrong. It’s a terrible set of circumstances but I see a lot of Amber hate from people who seem to expect her to know better when she is a fuckin mental MESS and saying she has “no real reason.”
I mean as someone who has struggled with mental illness, your thought processes get messed up. It’s even really hard to realize that and have a logical standpoint to reference and even then, it can be easy to give into the self hate spirals, the over analyzation, the paranoia and just everything else being flooded through the back of your mind until it’s warped reality into something bigger and uglier than it really is and the only conclusion your mind can come to is it’s all your fault somehow (and let’s also recognize Amber was already a nervous wreck before the incident).
Amber very likely doesn’t see her dad as a solvable problem but some rando who decided to involve her best friend in an ill conceived hold up is something that can be solved in the future and now she’s confronting that “solvable” problem. So while this is p much all her dad’s fault, rather than see this constant menacing presence she can’t escape to blame it, it’s more like “if you just hadn’t done this, he wouldn’t have gotten worse” towards Sal.
So yeah, I just think it’s unfair to in the same sentence basically convey the sentiment “yeah I know she’s mentally ill, was emotionally and mentally abused nearly all her life, had to watch her mother be beaten and blamed for it by the beater, was never allowed the resources she needed to recover and her abuser pushed her into expressing all of this through physical violence instead, but she really needs to think about this rationally and realize that she’s in the wrong right now and I just hate her so much for that.”
I mean that’s not what anyone is literally saying, but it feels like a lot of people eager to pile hate on Amber actually do forget the first half of that. I’ll even admit I don’t like Amber half the time because of how controlling she is of everyone and how she makes a lot of Ethan’s problems more about her than him, but that’s another post for another day.
Anyway, being fiction I just hope it follows the “beat each other up, get closure from said fight, then talk about their mutually shitty parents that drove them on this path” direction and yaknow. Maybe both of them can actually heal and move on from what was an inciting incident for both of them and seek out actual resources for recovery.
I don’t expect it because that might be good for both of them though and they notoriously don’t do what’s good for them, but I hope they can start healing after confronting each other.
* http://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-4/01-the-only-dope-for-me-is-you/nothing/
** http://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-4/04-the-whiteboard-dong-bandit/tippingpoint/
I don’t think many people are of the position that she needs to act rationally here. I think most of us are aware that that’s not exactly an option at this point. There are rational things she could do to make this whole situation a lot less dangerous outside of her established mental health concerns (like take this whole thing somewhere without an audience), but I think the main thread of those of us who are taking issue with Amber’s behavior is “your mental illness is a cause, not an excuse.”
It’s important to understand mental illness, it may even be helpful to give it space to exist so the person can live a productive/satisfying life or recognize how it’s hurting them, but it does not excuse the damage you do to others. Amber has been avoiding taking responsibility for her own collateral damage. She tries to mollify people by insisting that Amber is a hopeless monster and AG is her good side (this tactic is often used by emotionally abusive people as a way to keep you from challenging them on their abusive actions and to regain sympathy in a situation. My mother does it any time she’s losing an argument she has decided she can’t lose. Things don’t work out how she wants them to and out come the waterworks and “I guess I’m just the bad guy” until my dad or whoever else runs to comfort her), so when she is confronted with that damage, she can hand-wave it away as “I know, I’m a monster!” without actually addressing it.
Short version: most of us who are challenging Amber’s moral footing here don’t expect her to act rationally, but we do expect her to actually at some point take responsibility for the damage she’s been causing and her own crimes (and not in the “I’m such monster” way).
Maybe I’m reading her wrong, but I really don’t see the “I’m a monster” thing as an attempt to mollify people. It’s her actual opinion of herself, not an act to get sympathy.
In this case, it’s more an aspect of the DID split, with her attributing all the good aspects to AG and the bad ones to her, regardless of who actually does them.
Whoa, Sal is not at all responsible for Blaine beating up Stacy, as an inciting incident or a worsening one. Sal had nothing to do with any of Blaine’s choices at all. Just because Amber is saying that Blaine beat the shit out of her mom as aftermath of the incident does not make it Sal’s fault. And no one’s glossing over it, because everyone else realizes that it is beyond unreasonable to put that blame on Sal when Blaine, who more than likely already beat her, would have beat Stacy over anything if he got mad enough. Yes, the incident would have made Blaine be so much harder on Amber, but you cannot blame his existing abuse of his family on Sal. You can’t blame any of his abuse on Sal.
now Dark Amazigirl is going to go out and eat the sun of some peace-loving alien civilization.
…
dammit Sal, “dark” is a reference i am making, not a value judgment i am supporting.
Yeah, this is way outside of catharsis for the both of them and well into feeding into Amber’s worst thoughts and impulses. What Amber really wants to defeat isn’t a person, but a state of being, and she’s taking all her own self-directed loathing and all the shit Blaine put her through and putting it on Sal. It’s not about Sal, it’s not about the robbery, not really. It’s about what Sal represents to Amber, what Amber has made Sal represent. This strip is even more painful than the ones that have preceded it.
Sal tries to open dialogue again partway through (admittedly after she gets her own moment of catharsis, of getting out the frustrations she’s been carrying with her all these years) after Amber has struck back twice again, and Amber punches her again and kicks her while she’s down, because Sal calls her by the name and identity Amber befriended her under and because Amber isn’t done.
In addition to all of this, I can’t help but wonder what Ethan thinks of this, seeing his friend who flipped tables suddenly engaged in a fight with the person who took him hostage and whom he was able to actually have a good, real conversation with, one which showed growth and that who Sal was in that moment when they were children is not who Sal is now, in which Sal was able to ask for forgiveness and Ethan was able to give it.
None of this is a good look for Amber, and I know she’s struggling with her mental health, but this is just driving in for me that reason is not excuse, that Amber is enabling herself and some of her worst impulses through Amazi-Girl, that she’s going after acceptable targets according to her personal code of ethics, but it’s never over what those people did, it’s about the excuse for violence. And every time she engages in violence, it feeds into it, makes it easier.
I don’t know, this comment is rambling, but just. I’m left sad and nauseated and raw, which means this is a very well done strip able to evoke a visceral reaction, but I’m hoping that Amber is able to start her own journey up into being a better person and owning her own shit, and I’m hoping that we see more of Sal coming to grips with things and making an effort like with Ethan, and I’m really hoping that there is less in the way of people going the worst possible way with things.
I hope Sal finds and makes and keeps friends more than just putting all her emotional eggs in one friendship basket, that Amber wakes up and realizes that her coping methods are actively harmful to herself and those around her, that Ethan and Danny continue to bloom and come into their own, that there’s more maturation in this coming of age tale and that the dumber decisions are ones that are less tragic and more common, comedic. I’m rooting for all of these characters, and today’s comic is one in which that hurts. I’m hoping for a satisfying resolution even as I’m past ready for more lizard shenanigans.
Also, wow, that’s a lot of comments. :O
I agree with you completely.
You put into words very nicely what I was feeling, too. Great comment!
Amber is dangerous and a hazard to herself and everyone around her, and it’s gonna take years of therapy to ease that. Yeah, she’s got lots of issues and backstory and all that, but that doesn’t make any of her bullshit okay. Right now, she needs to be kept away from other people, until she can go more than a week without hurting somebody or flying into a berserker rage.
Also that superhero shit is creepy and more than a little unsettling.
Well yeah, in a realistic setting a superhero is just a cop with even less accountability and not even the illusion of having to respect people’s human rights which is fucking horrifying.
Exactly.
I don’t know about “less accountability”
Police will try to arrest a superhero. Usually the superhero is too strong, clever, etc for them to catch, but they’re not above the law in the same way police are, where they can literally just gun down anybody for any reason and walk free.
Amber, similarly, probably only has a finite number of incidents she can get into before it catches up with her. At some point she’s gonna cut up one too many people and the police will do something about it.
Superheroes have less accountability because they literally have a secret identity. No one knows who they are. And if they so choose, they can always change that secret identity, take up a new mantle, and carry on their merry way with no one knowing better. Or they can hang it up and reintegrate back into normal society. Again, with no one else knowing the difference. And most superheroes, if they have a good enough public image, are treated as if they are above the law, with police officers turning the other cheek were they to do anything. It was actually a plot point in Justice League that they got so powerful that governments across the world were (rightfully) concerned about the lack of accountability and checks in place to control their power. Admittedly, that’s much more than Amazi-Girl would be capable of, but the point still stands that most superheroes get off scot-free.
It’s only superheroes like Spider-Man or the X-Men that are usually in contention with police, and that’s because of a status quo that they are usually mistrusted by the public.
Again, I don’t know that the law trying and failing to bring a superhero to justice is less accountability than the police, who are just allowed to murder with impunity.
But superheroes are often given an authority that’s much higher than the police, while being held with much less accountability.
During the first Civil War event, Reed Richards and Tony Stark took it upon themselves to build a prison in another dimension where they would imprison any super-powered individual that did not register with the Superhero Registration Act. This included former colleagues, criminals, and children. I do not believe they had any sanctions from any governments or law-enforcement authorities, except for the authority Tony gave himself as Director of SHIELD. After the Civil War ended, did either of them face any kind of retribution? No, because shapeshifting aliens attacked the earth and they helped fight off an alien invasion. Also, later Norman Osborne took over control of SHIELD and led an assault on Asgard (which was currently in Oklahoma) and they helped repel the invasion. They faced no actual repercussions from anyone that wasn’t Norman Osborne after he took control, and they faced no actual repercussions after everything was fixed because they helped stop two invasions or so. They have less accountability because they are continuously given a wide berth and permission to act as needed. It definitely depends on the superhero, but there are several superheroes (and several antiheroes) that could absolutely kill someone and get away with it, because they’re one of the good guys so clearly it must’ve been in the name of justice.
During Civil War Tony Stark and Reed Richards were acting in conjunction with the government. Everything they did in that arc was strictly speaking government sanctioned, and not criminal in any legal sense.
This gave them privileges that police enjoy all year round. Police are above the law, not just for a story arc, but every day of every year.
They were authorised by congress via the superhuman registration act. It was a meteaphor for the patriot act. So basically, government sponsored superheroes are subject to the same accountability(or lack therof) as a federal agent. Most superheroes are private citizens and have the same restrictions as you or me. Superman doesn’t get in trouble because he doesn’t break any laws(not counting gritty reboots). Punisher is wanted for murder. Batman gets away with minor crimes, because Gotham’s legal system is only semi functional.
Speaking of civil war, I think we’re about to have one in the comic. Which side will you choose?
You call it the “first” Civil War event, but it’s actually the only one. There was never a second Civil War, and anyone who says otherwise is a damn Skrull.
You just ruined my childhood.
In a realistic setting a superhero doesn’t exist. They don’t even make sense in a realistic setting.
They’re like cops with no accountability, but also no authority, no backup or institutional support. If they try to act like cops, they get arrested or just beaten or killed.
So basically Kickass.
This is still under the notion that Amber attacked Sal, even if it’s true Amber’s alter ego when after her two times in the recent past can we really say that was the case around?
Also I don’t think Amber is as mindlessly violent as she’s being perceived, I’m 100% sure one of these two would have backed down if the other did.
She’s literally attacking Sal right now, on panel, as we speak…
My Referral is to when this fight started, obviously.
So what, it doesn’t count unless if it’s on the wrong page?
😐…..hold that thought.
I don’t care who started the fight, Amber is the one with a history of hurting people as much as she possibly can before she’s stopped. I also never said she was “mindless”. She knows exactly what she’s doing, just like every other time she’s hurt someone, because she’s doing it on purpose.
Again, she is a dangerous person, and she needs to be kept away from other people until she’s no longer dangerous.
……..Hm that’s the same train of thought Amber herself seems to have adopted after the Ryan incident. I still don’t know about that, some therapy and a good amount of anger management could suffice. But maybe your right and I just can’t bare the thought of her being dragged out to some nut house for a decade and a half or maybe your wrong.
…but can she?DUN DUN DUH!!
I was wondering, is Amazigirl the only superhero in this world? Because in the past characters seemed to just kind of accept that she’s a superhero, instead of realizing she’s crazy. That implies legit superheroes exist in this setting.
She’s not a superhero.
Superheroes fight supervillains. They stop like doomsday machines and stuff. Amber harrasses underage drinkers and graffiti artists.
That doesn’t answer my question.
“I was wondering, is Amazigirl the only superhero in this world?”
No, she’s not, because she’s not a superhero.
I object to calling dipshit taggers “graffiti artists”. They were not making anything even remotely resembling art. I’ve seen graffiti art, and that was not it.
“I was wondering, is Amazigirl the only superhero in this world?”
No, she’s not, because she’s not a superhero.
My question is do actual superheroes exist, and if not, why doesn’t Amazigirl raise more eyebrows. And we’ve seen her do legitmate crimefighting.
My guess would be superheroes don’t exist, because we’ve seen no evidence of supervillainy, and without supervillainy you can’t have super heroes.
There’s nothing “Super” about Batman if he’s just a billionaire who punches muggers for example. You need bombastic figures like The Joker, to elevate him above a normal hero.
Amber’s also inspired by comics and stuff. If there were real superheroes then presumably she’d be inspired by them.
This is all just speculation at this point though.
The Joker happened *after* Batman became a superhero (and that’s just the term, however unfitting you might think it is in this particular case).
It’s not like our world doesn’t have caped crusaders. People don’t care about what doesn’t affect them.
Yeah but people temd to question their sanity. The only people who question Amazigirl’s sanity are people who already know she has issues.
And our real “caped crusaders” tend to not actually do so much fighting, but more neighborhood watchy kind of things. Amazi Girl’s much more like a comic book superhero than most of the real ones.
Well that’s because while most real life capes may be giant nerds they aren’t incredibly delusional giant nerds.
They’re also generally not capable of pulling off low end superhero stunts like the kind of stuff even Amazi-Girl really does. Even the ones closer to actual vigilante types, some of whom are far more badass than I could ever hope to be.
Because they live in the real world.
Most of the ones I see in the news seem to use tools like mace and tasers.
could you imagine if this comic updated once a week
In Soviet Russia, Amber defeats you.