You jest, but just imagine Sal and Amber’s reaction if the two started kissing right now. That would be the ONE THING that would instantly end the fight. They would have no choice but to stop and stare, and then excuse themselves for a while.
This comment actually raised a very worrying thought in my mind. At the time she rescued Becky from Ross, I suspected that Amazi-Girl didn’t care if she died in the process; indeed, that dying at her moment of triumph might have actually been something that a part of her psyche wanted. Similarly, I’m now wondering whether dying at Sal’s hands now would be preferable to Amber to trying to get a handle on her manifold problems.
Having Amazi-Girl show up and save the day, even with rational calmness, is way down on my list of good things.
Just a complete confirmation for Amber that she’s the monster and Amazi-Girl is the golden one. Drives Amber into an even worse place, when right now (aside from the minor being choked thing) I think she’s made a big step: facing Sal as Amber without going all ragey.
It’s certainly violent, but compare with when she stomped Blaine into the ground or what we saw of the fight with Ryan. Amber’s fighting more like Amazi-Girl her – skill, not blind rage.
And most importantly, she stops.
You knocked her down Amber you didn’t win you dick for brains. This ain’t frigging WWE they don’t just lie down and you win. Now Sal, if you would kindly finish kicking her butt.
I think being able to knock Sal down was enough of a ‘literal’ victory for her that it then went into a metaphorical victory that Amber was able to fight against, and even overcome, what Sal represents to her. That ‘the monster’ she has been afraid of, is not invulnerable, or impossible for her to defeat. That would feel immensely cathartic but it did give Sal time to recover to fight more.
That was while Sal was detained and unable to fight back. In most other occasions since then, the sight of Sal has sent her into flashbacks. She hasn’t been able to tolerate her presence without great distance or switching to Amazi-Girl. ‘Knowing’ someone is logically not invulnerable is different from actually ‘winning’ against the ‘demons’ they represent to you which doesn’t have to be an ACTUAL victory. She reached a point where she felt she ‘won’ and that was good enough for her.
Amber’s interactions with Sal have always been between her and the demons Sal represents to her*. Now that she finally ‘won’ against them, she doesn’t seem to care what the other human being she’s been attacking does to her. She doesn’t care if she lives or dies now that she can add this ‘victory’ to her twisted, disconnected-from-reality internal narrative. (Not that she seemed to care too much before.)
*Maybe except that one time they played Mario Kart together, across the room out of line of sight.
I really don’t. Neither is listening to the other, even though they could learn a lot. They’re fighting what they think the other person is, which is apparently not up for negotiation. They’re speaking incoherently and trying to seriously injure each other. They’re entirely out of control and won’t stop at least until one is unconscious. Despite Sal running after Ethan to prove that she can de-escalate, and Amber afraid that her rage would be destructive unless she let off steam, they both lost all their progress. They are the worst versions of themselves, the versions they thought they could escape. They are blazing frenzies of rage, immune to logic and opposing viewpoints. They are two fireworks colliding head on.
And they are the same. In the original flashback, Ethan told Amber that she and Sal were the same. For awhile it looked like Amber was what Sal had overcome, and that she needed to get over her anger to get on with her life. But now, neither one is in control. All their anger was buried, and in fighting, they unearthed each other’s. And they’re equally powerful.
At the start of this storyline, I thought this confrontation would be a deep cathartic conversation. Instead, they’re shellacking each other, animals fighting to the death. Which is just as effective; they have an audience who knows why they have all this anger. When the haze of red blows over, they will see what they have done and they will have to pick up the pieces. Or maybe they won’t. Maybe they see the mess and convince themselves that like every other bad thing in their lives, it is the other one’s fault.
And Amber has nothing to learn from Sal. They both lived very different lives. Neither is handling their situation properly. Both can’t let go. Both won’t learn. Period.
Sal is rehabilitated, so at a bare minimum Amber can learn that that’s possible. She goes on all day about how she’s a monster, as if that’s some immutable fact, like a warlock cursed her and now she must commit 1 act of violence a day regardless of how she might feel on the matter, and yet Sal hasn’t robbed any gas stations lately.
Yeah, because rehabilitated people chokeslam people all the time. That’s a thing they teach you in therapy. (Before you say she did in self defense, let me point out that Amber was 100% self absorbed, and this was a perfect chance for Sal to get away, instead she has decided to go all in into this debacle, because of #reasons)
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think Amber is in any way in the right here (As a matter of fact, I think she needs to spend some time in a mental hospital), but to denominate her a stalker is simpllfying the issue between them that really makes me love this storyline. Amber very clearly did not want this confrontation, it was Sal who initiated it. However, Amber’s deranged behavior did lead her to instigate other such confrontation in the past that would have primed Sal for this. However, considering Amber’s SEVERE mental issues (the kind that should really make people think if she really can live functionaly by herself), I dunno that she can be held responsible for all her actions that escalated this situation into this very messed up point.
My point however, is that at this point in the storyline, Sal should know that there is nothing to be gained in this conversation (she’s the only mentally sane one here) and should disengage. Instead, she continues to escalate this. Which denotes the exact behavioral pattern Marcie was on her case for. Her inability to just take the L, walk away, and maybe decide to change her approach.
Sorry, I could’ve phrased that better. Amber didn’t want this confrontation, but this was in no way a sign that she was planning on ceasing to violently stalk Sal, or a sign that she no longer needed to be dealt with.
She hasn’t wanted the confrontation since day 1. Hence the mask. Sal’s giving it to her regardless, you know, on account of the violent stalking.
Considering they had conversations with each other where they acted friendly towards the other, and how Amber was freaking out about not wanting this confrontation literally seconds before it started. I’d say it was pretty obvious that before this fight started, Amber did not want it, at least not the side of her that was in control. Until Sal approached and literally threw down the gauntlet. They both launched into the fight with gusto, but it was clearly Sal who goaded her into it. Not saying she does not have a reason to, but at this instance Sal is as much in control of the situation as Amber is. And she’s just letting rage take over. Neither of them is justified in the way they’re handling this situation even if Amber’s behavior has been more persistent and harmful. Sal still has had many opportunities to bow out and has taken none of them.
She actually knows who she’s dealing with for the first time since this has started.
Confronting her violent stalker is still not a sign that she is relapsing into old criminal habits. Any law abiding citizen would likely do the same in her shoes. She has been pushed to extremes by months of harassment.
Amber needs to be dealt with, and the police have proven ineffectual with her in the past.
Again, at this point qualifying Amber and Sal’s relationship as her simply being a violent stalker greatly simplifies their relationship and reduces it.
Here are 3 strips where they show the two of them actually cooperating towards a common goal and having real conversations. And it was a cooperation that they both agreed upon, clearly. So, it’s a lot more complex than Amber being simply a violent stalker. That being said, I am in agreement Amber needs to be dealt with. She’s fucking dangerous to herself and others. I’m just saying, Sal is not the one to do it, and she’s not justified in what she’s doing here or how she’s doing it. Not one bit.
That’s not at all what I’m saying, I’m saying they were more than just stalker/stalkee. I’m also saying confronting your stalker is fine, choke-slamming them is assault.
I think all the comments about Amber being the violent stalker, ha s given people Amnesia that Sal chose to escalate. Sal decided to make it a fight. Sal threw the first punch.
Sal had no interest in confronting her stalker until she realized it was the same girl who stabbed her in the hand years ago. So Gangler your entire argument is moot. Sal STARTING the fight here has nothing to do with what happened at college but what happend at the gas station years ago.
If Amber hadn’t been there that day Sal still would have been arrested. And her parents still would have practically disowned her. The only difference in her life would be a lack of a physical scar on her hand.
That’s not entirely true, Vukodiak. Sal definitely wanted to confront AG before now. It just ended up getting overshadowed by Ryan and as they worked together on that, they were making peace. And then she found out that the person who stalked and harassed her was also the girl who stabbed her without any sort of legal or parental consequences (although her dad took out his embarrassment on her mom, because he’s an abusive tool, though Sal couldn’t have known that) and who she just found kissing her brother the other day. That is a lot to take in, and yeah, Sal feels more than a little manipulated. That’s what she was yelling about before they BOTH agreed they wanted to fight. It’s a culmination of all her problems with Amber (and her problems with AG, though Sal doesn’t know they’re separate).
Sal wouldn’t be disabled if Amber hadn’t been there, that’s true, but her problems with Amber are related to things Amber actually did, the same way Amber’s problems with Sal are related to things Sal actually did.
Not really, actually. She learned to listen to people who pull her back. Marcie, mostly. This kind of involves cooling down when requested to do so, but she never learned to identify situations that can and should be solved peacefully.
Better than nothing but not the same as having control.
Didn’t Amber kind of quit at the start and Sal restarted it? Admittedly because she thought she’d won, but still, Amber doesn’t actually do anything this strip.
I think that’s a little silly to say. Remember how Amber STABBED Sal after SAL HAD BEEN RESTRAINED?? For all Sal knows, Amber won’t stop hurting/hunting her until she’s down for good. Sal has at least in the past walked away from fights, Amber tends to completely lose herself in a fight (her father, for example). And all this fighting isn’t curing her of her rage, its only feeding it.
It’s certainly fair that Sal wouldn’t trust or recognize it, but I was responding to “They both don’t know when to quit. And by “they both”, I mean Amber.”
Arguably, Amber did quit. She didn’t lose herself in rage as she’s done before. I think that’s important. I fully expected her too, but she didn’t.
Amber did quit, I also think she had some kind of mind break where she was like stuck in her mind knowing she actually did it as herself and not as amazigirl. You notice how amber won’t shut up about her finally doing it? Shes not registering the whole being attacked by Sal right now. Amber is kinda stuck in her head saying whats happening or what shes saying in her head but outside Sal is beating down on her and choking her out, but shes only making choking noises because of her body’s involuntary responses to the attacks and probably her repeating the “I really did it” So I don’t think shes in rage any more like I’m stuck literally in my own world.
Yeah, stranglehold seems like Sal might be getting caught up in the moment, taking things too far.
A brawl could be bad enough on her record without turning this into an attempted murder charge.
Optimistically maybe she just wants to hold Amber still and shut her up for a moment while she says her piece, and then she’ll bugger off and say something like “Don’t let me see you again”.
It actually reminds me of something my friend said he used to do. When people tried to fight him/someone else, he’d put them in a stranglehold until they calmed down. He was careful not to make them pass out though. That might be sales goal here though, make her pass out to end this
It’s a move in a fight. Strangling someone until they pass out or yield isn’t actually worse than kicking them in the head until they can’t fight anymore.
It’s also a known Sal reflex – she’s done it to Joyce.
Stop! Amber is nothing like Blaine. 90% of Amber’s victims deserve it. Blaine hurts innocent people for a living. Amber actively tries to be better and protects her community. Blaine gives zero fucks, and is the reason his community needs protection.
Yes Danny and Ethan, now would be a good time to break up the fight. Actually it would’ve been better if you’d tried to break up the fight a little earlier.
Yes, because clearly Danny should be trying to get between two skilled fighters who are trying to kill each other. If you can interfere in a fight safely, do so, but airplane rules. Protect yourself first.
It’s not always easy to break up two very strong and determined fighters!
Ethan and Danny don’t have physical violence in their backgrounds, and they don’t like confrontation, so, they may have never even been in a fight before. Plus, though Ethan’s a big guy, Danny is really not built for fights that are more physical than strongly-worded emails.
It absolutely makes sense that they’d take this long to intervene.
Danny pulled Amber off Blaine last time she went beserk, but that was a one-sided fight. Ethan is very timid. I’d hate to imagine what would go down if Dorothy got involved.
True. And it isn’t locked this time, and we know that Dorothy sees them fighting. She probably has the presence of mind not to try and get between them herself, as she’s way outmatched physically, but she’s very likely to call campus security or something.
What the hell are they supposed to do, in this situation? In real life, they might be able to do something; Sal is experienced and Amber is thoroughly trained, but if nothing else Ethan is a big dude. But in this universe, both Amber and Sal are unrealistic superhuman combat machines and Danny and Ethan are fucking absolutely powderpuffs. Either Sal or Amber could dispatch both of them in three seconds with one hand. It’s laughable to even suggest they can stop this fight if Amber and Sal aren’t willing to stop.
Both Amber and Sal care about both of them. (Even if in Sal’s case it’s mostly guilt from the hostage thing in Ethan’s case.) Sure, either of them could pound Danny and Ethan into the ground, but they don’t want to and getting in between them is likely the best way to break it up.
The risk is that they might get hit before Sal or Amber realizes, not that they’ll deliberately take them down to get back to fighting each other.
I’m sorry, my bad, I’ll just blame them for freezing up and panicking at the outset of an unexpected, extremely violent and bloody fight involving their loved ones. That’s a super-unrealistic reaction for two extremely gentle people to have, how unreasonable of them.
. . . . Oh dear. This. . .Is not a good image of Amber’s mental state if temporarily beating Sal complete took her out of the fight repeating the same sentence. She’s not even fighting back anymore. The FUCK did Blaine, Blane(?), do to you Amber?
And Ethan DOES have a point here. Amber and Sal are talented and stubborn enough to just *never* stop fighting until the other is left broken on the ground and NEED to be stopped before both are seriously injured.
Eh, people were commenting that Sal wasn’t fighting back in yesterday’s strip. Probably the same situation. Sal just has the upper hand at the moment and Amber can’t get a hit in.
But now they’re exhausted, and Sal has Amber in a chokehold. Much more powerful position than Amber towering over Sal without restraining her. Both are going insane, saying stuff that makes no sense, but it’s the ninth inning and Sal is up by one.
Yeah, this comic is more grounded than some other versions of these characters, but it seems like people need to be repeatedly reminded that, by this universe’s standards, Sal and Amber are fucking top-percentile superhuman specimens. They’ve got plenty in the tank.
That’s actually a very distorted perception of reality. Fighting is EXHAUSTING. Most fights last less than a minute. Truly experienced, fit fighters can lengthen that to several minutes. Fights only go on for hours in storybooks. And in Dragonball Z.
Yeah, so like, that’s my point. This world is absolutely not realistic when it comes to the physical mechanics of heroic people. Amber and Sal are doing fucking action movie shit on the reg and surviving. Which isn’t to say that this fight isn’t exhausting them faster than almost any other that they’ve been in, but they’re not exactly the type to be unable to push through…
Neither of them are particularly used to somebody being able to take the upper hand from them, after all. Like, Amber’s dad is (according to the AU buffs) a freaking mafia muscle and she absolutely obliterated him. Sal and Amber are very strong fighters. They aren’t very often in fights where someone is actually a threat to them.
My prediction? Whatever happens, Sal, the darker-skinned girl, will take the lion’s share of blame and punishment – possibly all of it. Her friends will abandon her, she might be kicked out of the college (or not, she’s a recurring character, she could just be heavily punished some other way). Amber might feel guilt, or she might have a further mental break and begin to take lots of things too far.
I mean, Marcie’s not talking to her anymore and it’s pretty clear Sal’s reading that as ‘Marcie no longer wants to be friends’ (despite Marcie’s words to the contrary). Marcie was almost certainly a huge part of her motivation to come back. If they’re not friends and she’s no longer enrolled, why bother staying?
Ergo, I find it unlikely she’s getting kicked out of school.
(Because I’ll cry if she leaves is probably not going to be persuasive :P)
That’s why I think she’d want to leave, and yeah, it makes it pretty unlikely, but I mean, Bloomington until she figured out (never, since time barely passes) where she was going.
It’s possible, but not what I’m predicting (and yeah I would not be happy either).
We don’t know, all we know is Walky’s not seen her since they sent her away when the story starts, he doesn’t ‘keep tabs’ on her, Sal’s highly suspicious of him at the start, and Word of Willis is they haven’t spoken in years when the story starts.
Year round school might be it, especially if some of the people guessing it was a reform school were right. Could also be she found someone willing to let her crash with them (it’s implied Sal’s had a few unsavoury friends besides Asher in her past – she tells Marcie that she and Sal have always ‘picked the worst damn people’. It could be one of those people, or perhaps one of her ‘friends’ who idealized her a la Joyce?)
Unless she’s just out of the strip forever, I don’t overly buy it going that far. I’m guessing the ramifications are much more likely to be social than legal.
It really depends how many witnesses there are for this.So far Danny, Ethan, and Dorothy have been shown and they may not snitch as all of them are sympathetic to a degree to the two fighting. Also depends if there’s camera footage. Although if there are cameras I don’t know how they’d catch this but not all the numerous brawls AG and Sal have participated in on campus. Anyway they could still get away with this. Though I’d be disappointed if they both just got off scott free for violently brawling like this.
I’m not a legal expert, but I think for the law to get involved here one of them would have to press charges, and it sounds like neither of them are interested in that.
Sal knows the courts would bring no justice to Amber, and Amber’s too caught up in her vigilante fantasy to let the police put a damper in it.
That would be if they wanted to press charges for assault. If you are fighting in public, there are usually generic offenses the police can charge with – affray, disturbing the peace, etc, depending on jurisdiction.
Pretty sure these are still the same Stairs of Destiny that Ryan was stabbed in front of – and we KNOW they had a security camera. That makes campus security way more likely to get involved, especially with the potential for other witnesses.
This storyline got me on Willis’ Patreon. Unfortunately, I now realize that what I really want isn’t tomorrow’s strip, but to never run out of new strips .
Tomorrow’s strip is a decent consolation prize vs the impossible, though.
Yeah, guessing Dorothy may well be shortly behind Danny – Ethan’s only barely processed ‘crap, this is a fight’ and doesn’t know Sal well enough to know how ugly it would get (nor do we think he knows quite how bad Amber’s brain has gotten – Gonna guess that either the ‘you stalked me’ or the ‘Amazi-Girl and I aren’t on speaking terms’ or both are news to him, at least in the extent.) Danny knows but had ground to cover, and Dorothy… Gee I sure hope she’s still spending time at the Counseling Center, ‘cause this seems guaranteed to rip that trauma right open again.
Unless this is an RPG with a turn based fighting system, these last few strips have probably been a matter of moments. There hasn’t really been THAT much time to jump in without eating an errant punch, but with them wrestling on the ground, hopefully that’s changed.
They’d both punch him at the same time in a cartoonish fashion. It won’t be funny or pretty. And both will immediately cry out, “WALKY!”. Then the healing can begin.
At the start, when talking about him to Joyce, she did. She said ‘David ain’t really that dependable.’ ‘David?’ ‘David Walkerton. ‘Walky’. It’s both our last name. I ain’t calling him that. It’s weird.’
So, yeah, she usually calls him bro, but when she’s called him by name, it’s been David.
So this is going from aggravated assault and battery to attempted murder.
Have I mentioned Amber needs, in a very real way, to be hospitalized until they find the right combo of meds and therapy for her coocoo self. I’d say Sal too but she’d just “rebel”.
Yeah this has escalated way farther than it needed to. Amber’s gonna go down next then get back up with a knife, then Sal goes down and gets back up with a gun and by next week they’re throwing galaxies at each other!
You do see how Sal is the one doing the strangling here, right? This is just a stupid fistfight that they BOTH chose to start, but everyone is acting like Amber (and only Amber) has gone off the rails here
Not clear to me this is really an escalation over the rest of the fight either. If this is attempted murder, so was Sal strangling Joyce when she woke her up.
And with another blood- and drama-soaked sacrifice, the dimensional walls weaken further on these accursed stairs.
The Cult of The Soggies is having a great time this semester, they’ve barely had to do anything and people keep showing up to bleed on them or break up. Pretty great.
(Unfortunately for the Cult of The Soggies, as we all know, it’s not violence that draws them but the existence of people who are not straight, white, able-bodied and neurotypical cisgender dudes. Blood and drama probably invokes SOMETHING, though. Probably the Cheese.)
The Cheese or someone much less benevolent. Head Alien would probably give it another few rounds while he watched, though. And the Martians… let’s NOT bring the Martians into this universe, the floor wouldn’t just be wiped but pressure-cleaned.
Monkey Master would probably pick them up and hold them apart from each other while making exasperated remarks. That could work, at least long enough for someone else to intervene. (No idea what that would look like, though.)
Ah right. ‘Willing’, missed that part. Like I said though, Monkey Master would probably be a decent short term solution in terms of extradimensional entities and I think he’d probably respond to being summoned into someone else’s fight with a ‘you’re fucking kidding me, HER again?’ followed by just Dealing With This before they can react.
Amber is not a psychopath- they never feel guilt or love and we’ve seen Amber display both before.
She has serious anger problems fuelled by the shame her father gave her- she thinks literally defeating Sal will make her feelings of being powerless/worthless go away.
It’s cause Sal’s robbery attempt made Amber confront the two things she hates most about herself: her fear and her rage- because she froze when Ethan was in danger and then went crazy with the knife after it was already over. It all happened because of Sal, in her mind.
Because she doesn’t know about Marcie she just sees Sal as another bully, like Blaine. She wants to take down all the Blaines of the world but beating up random criminals hasn’t brought her relief. We know it’s because her problems are way more complicated than that but she thinks it’s because she needs to go back and fix that one night at the convenience store. If she can redo that night then it’ll be over.
I’d go farther and say there’s less medically wrong with Amber than she’d like you to think.
She’ll spin a yarn about how she’s not actually responsible for any of her own actions, but she is, and has been from day 1. There’s no pill that’s gonna correct what’s wrong with her brain.
Everything about this comment is gross and dismissive of mental illness.
Being mentally ill and being responsible for your actions are not two mutually exclusive states.
Not only has Amber herself never used her mental illness as an excuse for her actions, condemning herself and beating herself up excessively over every little fuck up IS ONE OF HER PROBLEMS.
Of course. There are many kinds of mental illness where you are still responsible for your actions. Like the kinds of pain and trauma and anger management problems Amber deals with.
I just don’t believe that there exists a separate entity in her head who commandeers her body and makes her do only the crimes she wanted to do anyway, absolving her of any of the guilt that would come with these crimes.
DID is a real condition, and it is in fact not one that would absolve her of any guilt. Unless you think she’s faked not having memory of Amazi-Girl’s actions the previous night, for an audience of NO ONE:
Yeah well, talk to Willis, cause it’s pretty damn clear at this point that Amber’s not just faking separate alters.
And the Amber persona usually uses that to pin the blame on herself and the good she does on Amazi-Girl anyway, which is completely contrary to whatever you’re describing.
Sal still started the fight NOT Amber. That was her choice. She was in confronting her stalker. She fought alongside a Amazi-girl muiltple times by her own choice.
It was only after learning it was the girl who stabbed her in the hand that she chose to fight. I could hit by a car last year it would not be justifiable for me to beat the shit out of the guy this year Rather then De-escalate and clear the air like with Ethan. She chose to escalate rather then consider two seconds that maybe she traumatized her too.
Yeah, well she’s also justified in wanting to confront the girl who stabbed her, especially when she finds out the girl also stalked and harassed her and, during that time they were working together to deal with a bigger problem (wherein Sal also still questioned whether what they were doing was effective and AG’s motivations) and never thought to tell her she was the girl who stabbed her (because, yes, she was traumatized by it too).
And on that note, Amber was just as down to fight as Sal was. She agreed she wanted to fight as well. They both agreed they wanted to fight, this fight’s on both of them.
I usually agree with you regarding amber, but you’re off the mark here bud. Amber definitely is mentally I’ll, I’m not sure if she canonically has DID because I saw someone yesterday saying that with the way he portrays her it would be a bad idea to use that diagnosis (something along those lines)
My only issue is when commenters use her mental illness to excuse her actions
Medical definition of psychopath is formally out of the DSM and its use in common parlance increases stigma against actual low-empathy people (a lot of whom are perfectly decent human beings who also happen to be, say, surgeons, because they don’t experience the same level of fear of messing up that would paralyze higher-empathy people in the same situation.)
Amber has literally demonstrated that she doesn’t have memories of AG and AG doesn’t have memories of Amber. (The first was linked, the second was AG’s first strip this storyline – the phrasing of ‘couldn’t find my mask’ vs a problem with it is significant.) Amber has described herself as dissociating and her relationship with AG as sharing a meat puppet, including a strip where she recounted the car chase from her perspective and talked about not having control of her own body and AG doing things rather than her – she very clearly is still processing things as she says them. All of this makes her dissociation as canon as it can be without a diagnosis on strip.
Commenters have said ‘I have DID and this echoes my experience.’ Willis has indicated these comments are very helpful and influence his writing of the character. Willis has said one of the reasons he shied away from diagnosing her on panel for a long while at least is that he didn’t want to play into the Dangerous Mental Illness trope that’s particularly prevalent with the ‘scary’ ones like DID, and those commenters saying that even if she has facets of the trope her being sympathetic through it and portrayed with nuance was still really good representation for them has impacted him and how he writes her further. Amber is clearly and explicitly some stripe of mentally ill. Portraying her as flatly evil does a disservice to the commenters. She’s in a seriously unhealthy place mentally and I think she might well need involuntary hospitalization (the AG out at night without her knowledge thing alone is like five different alarm bells, and this fight makes it clear Amber and Sal can’t be living in the same hall without serious therapy for both,) but that’s because I don’t think Amber can get out of this brain cycle without outside help and there is no one in this strip able to help her.
I’ve screwed up in comments before as well. Subject is touchy and Amber’s situation is like eight different kinds of complicated because Narrative. But she can grow and get better if given a better environment to learn. (This one is currently the absolute worst she could be in barring Blaine being one of her teachers.)
Ryan and Blaine both got what they deserved. She was ashamed of herself because simply wanting to hurt someone and feeling justified doing it is scary to her. Even when it’s self defense.
You’re never going to see that Blaine-like personality emerge because she’s better than him. His rage is only restrained by his need for self-preservation. He never has any qualms about taking it out on others, and never feels guilt about it afterwards.
She’s got her own anger problems but she is not her father.
@gangler:
Amber didn’t even do it the LAST time without remorse, and let me remind you that dude was the one who brought the knife and attacked HER, after declaring his intent to attack Dorothy and Joyce when he was done with her.
Of course, after Amber spent months seeking just such a situation, running around campus confronting even the pettiest of criminals looking for any kind of villain she could direct her violence at.
wtf does that even mean? If she hadn’t been there Dorothy and Joyce would have been maimed or WORSE
Notice how none of those petty criminals have ended up in the hospital? Hell, most of the criminals she’s gone after suffered “being chased off” and nothing worse.
Sal is the only person she’s ever sought to escalate to violence. Everyone else Amazi-Girl has be actually shown getting violent attacked her when she told them to get lost, or were in the process of attacking someone else when she arrived.
But sure, she’s a deranged animal, looking to attack ANYONE for ANY REASON 🙄
I mean if here handling of those guys defacing a stop sign is any indication her approach is “Try to verbally escalate the situation into a fight so she feels justified beating the shit out of them.” Like, Amazi-girl is very much just an outlet for Amber’s impulse to exert her physical power over others due to her fear of powerlessness with a thin facade of “justice” to justify it to herself.
I know, that’s not my point. My point is Amazi-girl WANTS to employ violence she just needs to justify it to herself as evidenced by the fact she tries to pick fights when there’s no reason to over petty shit like underage drinking or minor vandalism.
@gangler: I know you don’t see it, but that’s Amber’s entire set of problems in a nutshell: losing control (Sal, Blaine, Ryan) and having that tear her apart – even when she shouldn’t feel bad about it, like with Blaine and Ryan. Amazi-Girl’s original purpose was controlling her own rage and channeling it without losing control.
That’s why her getting in this fight and beating Sal (or thinking she had) without losing control, either to rage or resorting to Amazi-Girl, was so important to her.
It’s still all screwed up of course, but not at all in the ways you’re seeing it.
Look, we have to pick a side to root for in this fight and then we have to paint the other side as a complete monster to justify it. It’s just human nature.
I was actually hoping Amber would win this fight. I found Sal’s “I’ve never lost a fight” attitude annoying. But, it doesn’t look like there are any winners here.
There is always the “save up strips for a couple weeks and come back when it’s all over” strategy. I’m tempted to just start from the beginning to get a handle on Amazi-Girl/Amber and who is real and who is in charge etc, anyway. I’m rooting for Amazi-Girl.
AG is the one who did all that stalking, recall. No matter what Amber and AG think of their respective roles, AG is far from clean in this situation. (And she had a chance to talk about this weeks ago – Sal would almost certainly still be furious, but not as intensely betrayed, with less of a sense she’s lost Marcie, and not with the element of ‘and now you’re kissing my brother?!’ which I’m betting are all ramping up Sal’s anger even further. Don’t try and claim someone as a sidekick without telling them you both share a Tragic Backstory, AG.)
And, of course, it will be *now* the campus police will intervene… and Sal will be accused of being the aggressor.
The said thing? If there’s some CCTV around, the recording actually *will* give the impression that Sal’s to blame here. With no sound, it will look like Amber is scared of her – and it will show Sal throwing the first punch. Without the context provided by sound, Sal will be doomed :\
When was the last time we ever saw the campus police in this strip?
I’m pretty sure the answer is “never,” unless maybe they were in the background during some of the Toedad sequences.
I’m trying to imagine how the narrative arc would be furthered by campus police. There are possibilities, but they tend to be at odds with the furtherance of dramatic sequences.
Sal did throw the first punch, but she wasn’t the agressor – she bumped into Ethan and Amber by accident. It was Amber who first went into the fighting stance (because of her delusion that Sal was going to hurt her and Ethan). Also, Amber kind of goaded Sal into this fight verbally. Sal was furious at discovering who Amber was, but it was Amber’s behaviour that moved this confrontation from verbal to physical.
I’d say the blame is shared. They both were happy to fight and they both escalated to it.
Sal bumped into them by chance, but Amber was bumped into by chance. A draw there.
Amber went into a stance, but was still defensive. That’s not justification for attacking.
I’m not even sure what you’re thinking of for verbal goading and why Sal’s doesn’t apply at least as much. If nothing else, Sal was the first to suggest fighting – “wonder if you could even take me”.
I keep thinking that if anyone’s “doomed” here, it’s Amber since I supect that this brawl will be referenced when Blaine shows up soon (i.e., sometime before I die) with evidence that Amber hacked the university’s systems to fix Walky’s grades. But what do I know? I’m not even tempted to become a patreon.)
The problem is, if Sal wins, she loses. That could be said about either of them, but Sal’s the one who will face the most consequences. I was worried about Amber hurting her, but I really didn’t want her to turn this fight around.
Amber didn’t bring those weapons. Both of those knives were brought into the situation by the people who ended up getting hurt with them. It’s one thing to take an opponent’s weapon and use it, it’s quite another to intentionally bring a weapon to a fight.
I don’t think Amber will bring a weapon because she knows the presence of weapons magnifies her ability to do things she regrets. Its not her fault middle name Ryan didn’t realize that by bringing a knife he was making it a knife fight.
I hate them both so much I don’t know who to root against anymore. I was originally all for Amber to get it in on Sal but then yesterday’s page irked me enough to flip sides for today but Sal getting in some punches doesn’t bring me any joy… .. Sigh.
I’m team Ruth-knocks-their-heads-together-until–pass-out
Where were they when Sal threw that first punch?! Ethan could’ve easily stepped in! Maybe he would’ve eaten a fist for his troubles but better than letting two people try to kill each other.
Assuming the strips involving this fight are generally in real time this fight hasn’t even gone more than two minutes. Ethan probably until this point was in shock and couldn’t move.
I can maybe believe that even if I don’t want to, but he also could’ve stepped in back when they both were spouting edgy nonsense at each other before a punch had even been thrown. Not that this is Ethan’s fault at all, but he did kind of drop the ball on this one.
From the looks and sound of things, Danny wasn’t in range. Guess with Ethan is that he:
– Didn’t realize it would escalate to violence, and how quickly it would,
– Would side with Amber anyway, and
– Didn’t realize this fight was between two evenly-matched fighters who can both do serious damage if they let themselves.
(Again, I don’t think Ethan’s aware of things like AG stalking Sal for like a month and starting fights with her off-campus.)
Both Ethan and Danny shy away from confrontation, and even if they didn’t, if they have any lick of sense they’ll get nowhere near striking range of the fight. Their reasonable options are campus police or a firehose.
Where are you pulling that from? I’m getting this:
Come, sweet death,
Come, blessed rest!
Come lead me to peace
For I am weary of the world,
O come! I wait for you,
Come soon and lead me,
Close my eyes.
Come, blessed rest!
Seriously, and I didn’t realize this until just now, but that sequence from Evangelion has much more in common, musically, with “A Whiter Shade of Pale” than with “Komm suesser Tod.” But the latter title is, of course, much more suited to an apocalypse than the former.
Sal suggested they fight and threw the first punch. Over something that happened five years ago. When she choose to rob a convenience store and hold a knife to a kids throat.
Amber stalked and harassed and repeatedly tried to pick fights with her and then started dating her brother five years ago? Sal has lots of very recent reasons to be pissed at Amber and they’re all further compounded by Amber having stabbed her.
Yeah, that’s absolutely not true. Mental illness can absolutely impact the way you think about things, but Amber knows what a fight is, what it entails and she agreed she wanted to fight. It’s not a good or necessary decision, but it is one she’s legally competent to make.
Legally competent is often a bullshit standard because it doesn’t really take into account things that affect your thinking. But in this case, she’s also regularly competent, so I was okay with bringing it up here.
Definitely to stay away from Ethan, but that’s really hard to read as “Attack me!”
Mostly, she was talking about her own tactics – channeling her anger through Amazi-Girl onto “bad people”. Probably with the memory of Sal working with AG against Ryan in mind.
That, and also with Amber positioning herself in front of Ethan and pushing him back, it’s pretty clearly that Ethan is intended as the “good person”. But Amber, who’s between him and Sal, can take the beating. Which is why Sal is so confused on the next page, as she had ZERO intentions of attacking either of them.
I’ve been on a dnd kick the past few months and I really want to make character sheets for these two.
I’m seeing Amber as a Battle Master archetype Fighter, using her superiority die to add extra maneuvers into each turn. She might have even used her Action Surge ability last strip.
But Sal isn’t staying down because she’s a Path of the Berserker Barbarian, and her bonus action Rage is giving her resistance to slashing, piercing, and bludgeoning damage. I think she’s about to go into a Frenzy, allowing her to attack with a bonus action on each turn. But it will leave her with a level of exhaustion when this is over.
Going by what we’ve seen so far, Sal is a brawler who fights while mad and can take a lot of damage and keep going.
That to me is a classic barbarian.
If she’s studied any official fighting style or martial art, it hasn’t shown through yet.
As a monk, i’d expect her to not only dodge more attacks (though getting hit so much could be explained as good rolls or bad stats), but to also throw more attacks considering that monks are the only class written specifically to get to attack with an unarmed strike bonus action without depending on a weapon or fighting style.
*I guess you could argue that any class could attack using unarmed strike as a bonus action, but there’s room to say they can’t, and no other class has it written into its features, that I recall*
Well kiddos, Amber is now officially at the place where she’s both a danger to herself AND others due to her deteriorating mental health. Time to find her a nice quiet institution that will medicate her heavily.
From experience, I can tell you it does, with the right amount of counseling as a long-term measure of course, but short term, keeps you sedated, stabilizes your mood and prevents you from hurting people. Even if it makes your ability to think go to pieces.
Meds can help with social anxiety, which likely spikes her adrenaline on the regular, so that might help a little. But meds are typically way more effective when you get talk-therapy, too, especially when there are huge unresolved issues in there! Amber needs talk therapy, including anger management skills for her rage in the short term, and very serious attention to her traumas and sense of self-worth etc in the longer term.
In the short term she needs to be locked away from polite society. No one who stops mid fight and then disassociates from reality like that should be allowed to roam freely, at the very least I would send her back to her mother.
Yeah, Amber has been a danger to herself and others for a long time. But, we really avoid institutionalizing people these days.
They did send her back to her mother for a week or something, didn’t they?
It could be that some intense therapy during that time could’ve helped somebody enough to stay stable-ish, and survive while they continue therapy… except that Amber is also in the presence of her single most potent trigger. Oops.
It’s pretty clear in general that nobody in the cast knows what to do with Amber.
Her mom loves her but probably doesn’t get how bad it is.
Danny has just recently discovered the extent of her problems but, very reasonably, has zero mental health knowledge… and this really isn’t junior-varsity stuff. They need somebody very skilled in dealing with these issues, who actually knows how bad it is in there. So far, that’s nobody.
You may want to be mindful that many people who read these comments have had serious mental issues themselves, and may interpret your insistence on jailing Amber as a desire to jail them, too.
Yeah, Amber is way too dangerous. Even with Sal throwing the first fight, I could see her getting off way easier because of how nuts Amber is. Assuming the police around that area aren’t racist shits
Amber habitually commits violent crimes. If she doesn’t want to get locked up, all she has to do is stop. If she can’t stop, then I don’t think it’s outlandish to say that she should be separated from the people she harms until such a time as that is no longer the case.
@gangler I suppose so. Assaulting people is bad news, after all, as is jumping off of trucks n’stuff; I’m with you that she’s been in the danger-to-self-and-others zone for a long time!
I’m just not so confident that jailing her would turn her into somebody who doesn’t hurt people! Jail isn’t really rehabilitating, you know?
(An inpatient program, followed by a ton of outpatient work, seems like a better bet towards making her safer towards herself and others.)
I don’t even want Amber jailed I just want her to be put into a treatment program that she can’t leave until she’s not going to assault people on a regular basis anymore.
I’ve been institutionalized, and I’m 100% okay with the idea of Amber being either jailed or institutionalized and I was diagnosed with DID along with a host of other isusues. Just for the record. I relate to Amber a LOT here, I also know, the mental hospital was the best decision that was ever made for me. And it has made me into a gainfully employed roughly well balanced individual capable of living by myself.
That’s awesome! I’m really glad the involuntary hospitalization helped you. And, *you* were ultimately the one who used what they gave you, to become that roughly-well-balanced individual capable of living by yourself. Mad props.
Yes, but I wasn’t going to ever get over my issues without that involuntary hospitalization. That’s my point. Amber 100% needs to be locked up before she starts treatment. Because as it currently stands, she’s unable to control herself.
Super glad it ultimately worked for you! Mine was voluntary outpatient (which probably impacts my experience – my first psychiatrist had clearly never worked with an autistic person like me before and that has colored my perception about how they handle conditions your particular doctor doesn’t specialize in a lot,) but a similar thought process about it in hindsight – being at the stage where it was necessary was terrible and I never want to be in that stage again, but that support structure and the tools built there were absolutely what I needed then.
@Maki & @Rengali
Yeah, on further reflection, inpatient (even if it’s involuntary) followed by lots of outpatient seems like the best bet, here.
It’s just, nobody on cast knows this.
It’s a problem.
Shame of none of the cast having any psychological experience except maybe Mike (who uses it as a weapon) and Sal (who doesn’t know enough about Amber or AG to realize the problems and was so badly burned on her own experience she may well NOT recommend it to her worst enemy.) Both Danny and Walky especially seem to buy into the myth that as a romantic partner you should be able to shoulder your partner’s mental health burdens… which is the last thing Amber needs right now even if they did get the depth of the issue. (And no one else does.)
Gonna point out – an inpatient ward would ban anything that could be conceivably used to hurt yourself or others* (at least without supervision – in the day program we were allowed coloring implements,) and Amber once separated from her primary triggers and under supervision would be way less of a threat to herself and others. I guarantee you psychiatric hospitals can handle someone with Amber’s skills and issues in the ‘keep everyone safe’ sense. There is a way out that gets Amber rapid professional help and doesn’t put her literally behind bars from everyone else. (She probably would be arrested if police get involved, but that would be a way more permanent writeout and I don’t think her story’s done yet.)
* Reason I went into outpatient rather than in literally came down to the fact that inpatient doesn’t allow charger cords.
There is involuntary short-term psychiatric hospitalization still, but far as I know offhand even dedicated psychiatric hospitals tend to have trouble with this sort of thing and it tends to be more used for things like Ruth’s situation. And I’m pretty sure you still have to run the stay through health insurance.
Basically even if Amber were hospitalized after campus security or the police intervene and no further legal action were taken (an unrealistic situation to begin with,) getting her a therapist who would know how to deal with her unique cocktail of issues is a crapshoot. I’m thinking our best case scenario here is one of them moving buildings on an even faster timeframe than Billie (and even that will have issues given their shared friend circles,) Sal maybe finding an on-campus support group or two of some kind and Amber finding something online because you can’t count on an informed community on campus with her (likely) diagnoses. And that’s still not a perfect solution, just the ‘doesn’t write one or the other out of the strip entirely which I don’t find likely’ one.
I also think Amber is probably on the list of people who could benefit from antidepressants* and Sal is definitely on the list of people who would benefit from good talk therapy and developing better solutions for general anger, but I don’t think either of them would be receptive to things at first and in this sort of situation making them probably won’t go over well either.
* Below Billie, who is ‘someone please get her significant help NOW’, roughly on par with Walky who may well need disruption of his brain’s anxiety patterns but could possibly do so successfully with other options maybe, and above Sarah who I don’t think is clinically depressed but would probably benefit from the Counseling Center or something.
The only way this gets any worse is if they keep going through out the campus and leave mass chaos in their wake. Like in the same fashion of Peter vs the giant Chicken.
Well since Sal and Amber have both shown in the past to be basically superhuman and the use of 60s Batman noises when they hit each other its fair to say that these two fighting each other, and the ramifications, aren’t to be taken as seriously as other characters, like Ruth and Billie for example, so yeah watching Sal and Amber tear through the college like Pete and Giant Chicken would be a blast
You know, a lot of people seem to look at this as Sal trying to kill Amber (or that others like the police will see it that way).
It could be that Sal is trying to end the fight by knocking out Amber.
Less than a minute and she’s out cold/fight’s done.
That would be the best course because Amber has COMPLETELY lost it. Although she seems to be really happy she managed to beat Sal in the first place. The two REALLY need to be given an ultimatum, however – Either go to therapy, or be kicked out of school and arrested
Knocking someone out in any way is very risky and dangerous. You’re always going to risk brain damage when you try to make someone lose consciousness via physical trauma.
It is, but in some cases (and entirely possibly in this case), it might be less risky/dangerous than letting the fight continue. In my self-defense classes, we learned how to do a very similar move to what Sal’s doing here. Of course, the idea was “knock them out then run like hell while they’re regaining consciousness” not “subdue a deranged vigilante who’s cackling about having defeated you”, but I imagine the principle’s the same.
Sal has already been on the ground at least once before during this fight and it continued (with Amber throwing the next punch at that). The fight wasn’t over then and it wasn’t over this time either. Amber just got caught up in her apparent superior fighting ability/underestimated Sal’s resilience.
This seemed a bit more definitive than that, where Sal was knocked down and already getting up when Amber kept coming at her. There was no pause in the action.
But that’s not the real point: This time Amber didn’t follow up. She didn’t keep beating on the downed opponent, like she did with Blaine and apparently with Ryan. She stopped.
Which was an opportunity to deescalate. One Sal didn’t take.
That’s my point.
Sal didn’t view the fight as over, she viewed it as ongoing, so from her perspective, there was no opportunity to calm things down.
Instead, it was an opportunity to take control of the still ongoing fight.
Who, in the middle of a fight and is ready to keep going, deescalates after just getting hit?
Why would Sal even think to do so?
For that matter, why would it be Sal’s responsibility alone to do so?
Amber didn’t deescalate.
Even if we say the fight was over and Sal was down for several seconds, so Amber didn’t throw another punch, gloating and/or celebrating how you just beat the other person up is not deescalating.
This ain’t a video game, the fight isn’t over just because one participant goes horizontal for three seconds. I don’t know how many fights you’ve been in, but in my experience, they don’t end until someone intervenes, or until one of the participants can’t fight anymore, whether that involves being knocked out, winded, or running away.
So Amber shouldn’t have stopped? She should have taken advantage of Sal’s momentary disadvantage and stomped on her head or something?
Note that it wasn’t just “goes horizontal”. Both of them had been down on the ground before in the fight. Amber after the first blow and Sal a page or so later. This time Sal took a brutal pounding on that last page before going down. 4 good hard hits, including a kick to the jaw, with no chance to try to strike back or even get a hand up to block.
When did I say Amber shouldn’t have stopped? Don’t put words in my mouth and argue against something stupid that I never said. I don’t even know how you got there in the first place.
What I actually said is, the fights I’ve experienced didn’t end until someone actually ended them, one way or another. Obviously, Sal can keep fighting, because she just a moment ago caught Amber off-guard. That means Amber didn’t end the fight with those hits, and nobody else is stopping either of them, so it’s obviously not over yet.
That is not the way fights work. Just because one person thinks they won and stops doesn’t mean the fight’s actually over. It’s not over until someone either can’t fight anymore from exhaustion, someone runs away, or someone gives up (or, worst case scenario, too injured or too dead to fight). None of these is the case and this is why it’s never a good idea to assume your opponent’s done.
No, but it can provide a chance to step back and try to deescalate.
Even just by not following up and attacking Sal while she was down, Amber was taking a small step in that direction.
While I know Willis has this comic planned out and such well in advance–
*peers to the buffer watch window*
Almost ’til Valentine’s Day, it seems, but, well, the poll section to the right hasn’t been updated in a bit, so, I suggest a poll on who the readers would pick as the combatant who wins the fight.
And, by that I mean the old fashioned way-
winner based on taking no moral high ground, or who learns what lesson and triumphs over what past demons…
simply who gets the very last punch in and limps away under their own power, as opposed to who gets knocked the f@<# out and gets carried off the field.
Having had a while to sit with this fight, I am just tired. Choking is dangerous. So is knocking someone down the stairs. This whole thing is dangerous and unnecessary and going nowhere good fast.
Amber, your winning here isn’t going to make any of the changes you think it will. All it will mean will be that you beat up someone you stalked, harassed, and in the distant past partially crippled while they were already in police custody. There is no gain in beating Sal except maybe silencing Blaine’s voice saying you couldn’t, and even that’s no gain, because you’re buying into his bullshit that that’s what’s important and gives you worth. But there’s a lot to be lost (and that already has been).
Sal, Amber was done, and there is no gain in continuing this fight except for your own pride and/or stubbornness and unwillingness to say die. Well, that and the anger I’m sure you’re feeling from being kicked in the chest and down the stairs and while you were down. But honestly, this is not a fight that should be picked back up and continued.
This is what I am reduced to, talking at fictional characters like they are real. The sheer discomfort this whole section of the storyline is causing is nearly overwhelming, and maybe it should be, because this isn’t a typical superheroes comic book showdown, it’s two people who’ve been dealt bad hands kicking the shit out of each other because they have poor coping mechanisms and haven’t learned important life skills like deescalation.
And I’m still left thinking that if someone called/calls the cops, even with Amber having stabbed a dude the overall community is going to be more likely to support over her, Sal’s still going to be the one disproportionately facing consequences because she has a record, because the justice system comes down on black people harder, and because it doesn’t always matter who started it or what actually happened so long as you have someone to blame. So even though I don’t think they’re going to get expelled due to storytelling reasons and we have the reassurance from Willis that no one is going to die (and thus Sal is probably not going to be shot), even the possibility is pressing hard at that feeling of doom and discomfort.
Give me lizards, please. Give me teleporting Joyce and Sarah as the first person to notice it. Give me shenanigans and hijinks and kids being silly. And if you can’t quite give me that, give me Ethan and Danny realizing that Amber and Sal are closer to the ground, that this is a relative lull in the fighting and they are less likely to catch a fist or an elbow to the face, and have them sit on their friends like panicking teens who also don’t know how to properly break up a fight or deescalate, but will do their best, and let that stop this fight if Sal and Amber are determined to see this to the bitter end.
Choking might be the safest thing in this case. Amber disassociated right in the middle of a fight, she is FAR gone. Choking can knock her out. It may cause some brain damage but that’s far better than a completely irrational, erratic parkour expert with martial arts training and street fighting experience being allowed to run around. Get her knocked out as fast as possible, apply restraints around her wrists and ankles, call the police, and watch her carefully til they come in case she’s also a master escape artists
I think they’re both running on trauma instincts in general and those trauma instincts also happen to be across the board terrible, but that last ‘I did it’ while she’s taking a beating isn’t a good sign of her sense of reality. (Sal’s not acting well here either, but that would be specifically where I think Amber might be in a disconnect – not of the AG variety but of the ‘not quite in what’s going on right now’ kind from shock, the way the first stabbing appeared to have been on rage impulse with no thought. That said, I didn’t first read that as dissociating.)
I’m not even going to touch on the rest of that, but I do want to say: there have been numerous cases where choking someone has done damage to the windpipe, leading to death, not “a little brain damage” (which isn’t okay, either! Zero brain damage is the only acceptable amount here!). Unless you’re careful to cut off blood-flow and only compress the right place, yes, there is an unacceptably high risk of killing the person, which you’re more likely to get with amateurs without official training, like we have here. Even if it’s accidental, it would still be homicide, just like if Sal had broken her neck on the way down the stairs.
Sal isn’t choking her the “safest” way. The way that she’s holding Amber isn’t very secure and I believe that Amber should be able to get out of it. The correct way to do this would be to have Sal having one hand against Amber’s head (so she’d have to twist in the direction of the elbow to break free.) After 10 seconds she’d be unconscious, after 45 she’d be dead.
I can’t remember the specific problem with this chokehold other than it’s much easier to break out of. I also think it’s more likely to damage the windpipe, but again I can’t remember.
I’m trying to remember what my FIL told me about this stuff since he trains MMA and self defense for a living.
Yeah this is stressful and I’m having trouble seeing how it can end without serious consequences (particularly and most likely for Sal, but again – if it comes out Amber is AG, she is SCREWED and the bystander boys might be desperate enough to say it to the police even if Sal isn’t,) and even if it does the old status quo is so untenable.
I’m glad it didn’t boil any longer, but that’s like saying ‘I’m glad I was just scalded by a face full of steam instead of the pipe exploding and me getting hit with shrapnel too.’ There is nothing good that comes of them fighting, especially not like this. (And the Komm Susser Tod remarks in the alt text and on Twitter? Officially Not Helping.)
Yeah, I think that Ethan has a point. I suspect that, if they’re not broken up, either Sal or Amber will end up dead. That’s how much suppressed rage there is in them that’s suddenly broken loose.
217th late to the party. Rats. Just wish to say, im glad that Sal is still kicking, sad that they are still fighting, thankful for the comic, and Dave for creating it.
I feel like a more accurate quote for these two is: “You can’t just banish anger. It doesn’t ever really go away. It demands an outlet, and then it destroys you.”
It’s like their anger is a pet wolf, begging to be let out to hunt, slowly growing bigger until it’s big enough to devour them.
And a second, unrelated point: I think that, even disregarding Blaine’s impact, Amber might have gotten a lasting feeling of shame and inadequacy from freezing up as her best friend was taken hostage, and alongside her struggles with anger I think she’s been struggling against her fear that, when the opponent is powerful and she has no mask, she’ll find she’s still the scared kid who just watches as someone hurts her friends, or hurts her.
I think, just in actively fighting Sal as Amber, she’s found that in a bad situation (e.g., Sal angrily confronts her over all her misdeeds) she doesn’t turn back into the little kid frozen in terror. I think that’s what she means by “I did it”. And, in isolation, I feel happy for that change; I struggle a lot with freezing up in bad situations, so I can really empathize with the kind of fear she’s shown when not in her mask.
Of course, while she didn’t freeze up, it seems she’s only accomplished that … by becoming someone who needs to hurt other people? By treating Sal as a ghost of the past, rather than a real person, in order to justify hurting Sal? By feeding her anger until it’s big and wild and vicious enough that she can ride it into any bad situation that comes along?
She didn’t freeze in terror, but she also didn’t lose control to her anger. Like she did when she originally stabbed Sal. Like she did with Blaine and with Ryan.
She was angry, but not in a blind rage. She fought methodically and “won”, then stopped.
That’s far better than I expected. That’s her victory here, as long as she doesn’t lose it now that Sal’s got her on the ropes.
I hope you’re right, but I’m worried Amber feels like the physical victory and metaphorical victory need to go hand in hand and so not actually ‘winning’ when she thought she did might demoralize her. Or make her even more vicious. I don’t think it’s going to get anywhere near as bad as some people think and have them committing murder or hospitalizing, but that is a thing that concerns me.
Amber is absolutely losing her mind, and people in the comments are trying to give it a positive spin, she is not even helping anyone this time, this is just another of her psychotic episodes; when her stable personalñity in the superhero …you know how far gone she is
Again: AG was the stalker and has tried to find people to beat up for the sake of getting to enact thinly-justified violence before. (There was a section back before the rally, right after the Danny breakup I believe, and the clear implications she seeded dummy addresses the way she did to have an excuse to fight Ryan’s minions anyway.)
I’m not convinced Amber is experiencing the kind of break from reality a psychotic episode entails. (Still in the DSM-5, but with a much stricter definition than common parlance.) She and Sal are both having episodes and both coping with the trauma terribly, and Amber is more at the point of ‘no longer safe not to intervene’ than Sal, but this fight is both of their terrible idea and they are both incredibly dangerous to the other and anyone else around. Both are behaving irrationally. (Trauma does that.) Both need serious help immediately.
Yes. And the only reason the fight was needed then was that she couldn’t become AG soon enough to let Sal know those addresses were dummy ones and there was no need to fight them.
Doesn’t seem like she was looking for an excuse to fight.
Most of everyone else in the comments seems to be saying the same thing. I don’t know why everyone else thinks some sort of controversial opinion that everybody would disagree with you on when actuality your just favouring one of the two.
Hell I didn’t want to take up a side but here I am taking up for Amber despite saying that I think she did have a helping hand in making this work but it’s not solely on her. The comment section is 50% neutral and 50% pro Sal mainly because she’s the favourite( it’s a Brash assumption out of left field and maybe a bit of projection because I’m struggling to put my bias out of the way because I know Sal still had a slight rougher deal from her encounters with Amber but I still feel like that’s a reason). Even though I know she has understandable reasons, I don’t feel like that makes her blame less.
I’ll agree that they both chose to fight, but I wouldn’t call it the same mistake. Sal made the mistake of being provoked even thought she knows that it won’t end well and it will further damage her attempt to become better. Amber though, she fell right back into the “Sal is the monster that must be defeated” narrative that we thought she had gotten over by now.
Sal took two steps backwards while Amber backslid back into where she started. It’s not that Amber is a worse person or more violent, but that she went further backwards in a single bad decision
Sal almost killed Ethan while Amber manages to avoid hurting innocent people despite having anger issues so severe that she needed a second personality to process them.
Amber repeatedly stabbed a dude. I don’t blame her since he was a piece of shit rapist but it was far beyond the amount of violence actually required by the situation. Amazi-girl constantly tries to pick fights with people over non-violent crimes or in Sal’s case just for having the audacity to exist. Amber flipped a table while screaming at Ethan because he made a personal choice about his love life she didn’t agree with. Amber constantly falls back on rage and violence when she’s in conflict situations.
The people she picks fights with are free to walk away and have. mutually agreed violence is not only justifiable, but has several,sports centered around it. She was mad at Ethan because she spent the whole summer holding his hand and fighting with his mom, only for him to throw away the progress made.
Yeah you’re not fucking listening and also straight folks don’t get to physically intimidate gay people for not expressing their identity the way they think they should.
Just because they’re free to walk away doesn’t excuse Amber from doing so in the first place? Yeah, they’re both culpable for their actions once the fighting actually starts, but completely excusing any and all wrongs that Amber does to other people as being part of her mental illness and putting the fault squarely on other people is completely ass-backwards. Amber can, in fact, be wrong.
Also, Amber doesn’t get to decide Ethan’s progress. Coming out and accepting being gay is an incredibly hard and arduous progress that doesn’t come automatically. If Ethan, for any reason, decides that it’s better for him to go back into the closet, that is not something Amber gets to have a say in because it comes down to what is safer and more comfortable to Ethan.
Amber can feel upset about it, or be worried that Ethan’s just engaging in unhealthy behaviors, (which a Jewish guy dating a Christian girl accompanying her to church and going along with her plan of converting him straight is incredibly unhealthy), but she doesn’t get to scream at him in public about it. That doesn’t make it any safer for Ethan. That doesn’t make it any more comfortable for Ethan. For sure, she should take Joyce to task for trying to convert a gay man straight, but she does not get to decide that Ethan’s throwing away his progress because he decided it’s safer to be in the closet. It can be incredibly dangerous to be out, especially when you are financially dependent upon your parents who clearly do not approve. We saw a great example of what can happen with that with Ross and Becky.
You know what, your right about Ethan. Regarding Amber getting into fights, I should explain where I’m coming from. My moral compass is largely based around consent. If two people agree they want to fight, I think they should be allowed to fight.
Ryan proves my point. She managed to take the darkest, ugliest part of herself, and use it for good. She could have gone softer on him but he would be back a lot sooner if she had.
God, that’s stupid enough to have a potential to work.
Sal and Amber, simultaneously: “YOU MADE ME!”
Danny: “All i’m saying is give peace a chaaaance.”
Sal and Amber, simultaneously: “…he’s with you? ….yeah, kinda.”
Danny: “Now hug?”
Fight lesson number 2, kids: if you’ve got to the point where you’re actually IN a fight, don’t stop hitting while your opponent can still move. If you think the fight shouldn’t lead to your opponent not being able to move, you shouldn’t be in that fight in the first place.
No, it isn’t. It’s incipient hysteria at seeing the Devil of her delusional personal mythology beaten at her hand. In fact, I’m not sure she’s entirely conscious of what is going on around her at any point in this strip.
I’m going out on a limb to suggest that Amber may do just that. Even let Sal choke her. She’s proven what she needed to prove to herself. She’s done now.
Mind you, I think it’s a pretty small chance. More likely she’ll fight back, break the hold and hopefully Ethan and Danny can intervene.
Amber thought she ended the fight (for what reason I don’t know what) but Sal went right back to fighting. Amber has caused some confrontation between the two in the past but this time around is different. Sal’s the one who went looking for Ethan found and found Amber and then they both got hostile and Sal was the one who called her out to a fight which Amber didn’t hastite to agree. Now even though Amber seemed to cooling down Sal might still choke her out anyway even though they could have stopped there.
You can say that Amber made this conflict worse with paste actions but that’s they case one could also hold Sal accountable for starting this mess and making it worse right now. You can hold them in a different light about one being more dangerous than the other but it’s all still arguable not factual.
Looking for a solution that doesn’t end in both of them being expelled. Time for the fight to stop and Ethan is the best hope for that. If this is on camera, then they both are expelled, edpyafter Amber’s other activities come out.
But I love the structure. The three witnesses are perfect. Ethan who was Sal’s victim but has forgiven her and is radically non-violent, but is Amber ‘s oldest friend. Danny who is friends with Sal and former lover of AG. And Dorothy who was saved by Amber but is again watching her violence from behind glass and from a safe distance. Much different from the fight in the parking lot.
I just really appreciate the line “Shut up, you are so weird” from a narrative perspective. Like, it feels like something a person would really say in response to a situation like this. I dunno, I’m just really pleased with this writing.
I love it too! Yesterday I found myself thinking “Amber, please shut up” when I first read the strip so to see a similar sentiment expressed in-universe today was very amusing to me.
Yeah, but Sal obviously didn’t pay attention to hearing Amber’s explanation of how her father is an asshole that beat down her mom. These two are only hearing what they want to hear and not putting themselves in the place of the other.
That doesn’t really have much to do with Amber crowing about how she’d finally beat Sal and Amber defeated her. To us, we know she means she thinks she won fairly and without AG, but to Sal it sounds like incoherent rambling.
I actually do enjoy them in settings where I’m able to suspend my disbelief about them and the real life implications of them but yeah in a realistic setting self-appointed cops hiding behind anonymity to play judge, jury, and executioner without consequence can fuck off and go to prison. Amazigirl has more in common with George Zimmerman than she does any incarnation of Batman I actually like.
Weird, because I feel like looking back on this it got me thinking of the street fight in the movie “They live” between Roddy Piper and Keith David. No similarities between the two fights but for some reason it got me thinking about it like it’s the same level of intensity.
This is the ultimate showdown of ultimate destiny
Sal, Amber, and Drama as far as the eye can see
And only one will survive I wonder who it will be
This is the ultimate showdown of ultimate destiny
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Danny: “I-is it okay if I handle MYself”
Ethan: “C-can I handle YOU later”
You jest, but just imagine Sal and Amber’s reaction if the two started kissing right now. That would be the ONE THING that would instantly end the fight. They would have no choice but to stop and stare, and then excuse themselves for a while.
first they’d have to be like ‘hey look at this!’ or Sal and Amber might not notice
What if Amber and Sal started kissing? It worked with Billie and Ruth. It would be a happier ending than the one I’m expecting.
It’d shut Amber down in a hurry but would it really do anything to Sal?
SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!!
Amber’s like “I already won nerd, you go ahead and kill me if it makes you feel any better”
This comment actually raised a very worrying thought in my mind. At the time she rescued Becky from Ross, I suspected that Amazi-Girl didn’t care if she died in the process; indeed, that dying at her moment of triumph might have actually been something that a part of her psyche wanted. Similarly, I’m now wondering whether dying at Sal’s hands now would be preferable to Amber to trying to get a handle on her manifold problems.
Sal has a strongly-repressed urge to strangle weirdos.
It’s much better now. It’s not repressed anymore.
The thing is, she’s about to put Amber to sleep, which leaves Amazigirl in control.
Amber’s out, AmaziGirl comes in
“this is not even my final form”
I want to see Amazi-Girl try to talk Sal down.
Especially because, of the entire cast, Amazi-Girl is the only one who will absolutely take Sal’s side here.
Having Amazi-Girl show up and save the day, even with rational calmness, is way down on my list of good things.
Just a complete confirmation for Amber that she’s the monster and Amazi-Girl is the golden one. Drives Amber into an even worse place, when right now (aside from the minor being choked thing) I think she’s made a big step: facing Sal as Amber without going all ragey.
I’m curious how you think she’s facing her without being “ragey”? Because I don’t know how else to describe this encounter but violent.
It’s certainly violent, but compare with when she stomped Blaine into the ground or what we saw of the fight with Ryan. Amber’s fighting more like Amazi-Girl her – skill, not blind rage.
And most importantly, she stops.
You knocked her down Amber you didn’t win you dick for brains. This ain’t frigging WWE they don’t just lie down and you win. Now Sal, if you would kindly finish kicking her butt.
Missing the point on an epic scale.
Why am I even engaging? This isn’t going to be a productive discussion, just another nasty internet fight that changes nothing and benefits no one.
*walks away*
My inner thought process before I post literally anyhthing. (And yet I still sometimes do. And sometimes I am surprised, so…)
I relate so hard.
On the internet nobody can see you walk away. Maybe that is why it happens so rarely.
/walks away
/comes back to check for responses
I think she’s saying something more along the lines that she faced her fear instead of ran.
She literally said “Tonight Amber defeats you. Amber can defeat you.” directly before “I did (it?)”.
She seems to be talking about a very literal victory in martial combat here. Not like a metaphorical victory over her own inner demons.
She thinks the martial victory will give her the metaphorical one.
She hadn’t achieved the martial victory though, is the thing.
She thought she did though, before Sal choke slammed her.
She had no reason to think so. There was nothing indicating that such was the case.
Yeah, this was a response to the comment that knocking someone down does NOT mean they are out of the fight.
Sure, Amber was overconfident and thought she won. I’m saying that’s why she made the connection. Not that her reasoning was accurate.
I think being able to knock Sal down was enough of a ‘literal’ victory for her that it then went into a metaphorical victory that Amber was able to fight against, and even overcome, what Sal represents to her. That ‘the monster’ she has been afraid of, is not invulnerable, or impossible for her to defeat. That would feel immensely cathartic but it did give Sal time to recover to fight more.
She already knew Sal wasn’t invulnerable. Stab wound, remember?
That was while Sal was detained and unable to fight back. In most other occasions since then, the sight of Sal has sent her into flashbacks. She hasn’t been able to tolerate her presence without great distance or switching to Amazi-Girl. ‘Knowing’ someone is logically not invulnerable is different from actually ‘winning’ against the ‘demons’ they represent to you which doesn’t have to be an ACTUAL victory. She reached a point where she felt she ‘won’ and that was good enough for her.
Amber’s interactions with Sal have always been between her and the demons Sal represents to her*. Now that she finally ‘won’ against them, she doesn’t seem to care what the other human being she’s been attacking does to her. She doesn’t care if she lives or dies now that she can add this ‘victory’ to her twisted, disconnected-from-reality internal narrative. (Not that she seemed to care too much before.)
*Maybe except that one time they played Mario Kart together, across the room out of line of sight.
I think its that she Fought Sal from beginning to ( an ) end , without Amazigirl.
She even let Sal decide to fight and start. She remained mostly in control, what she needs Amazigirl for
So she gets knocked down, but she gets up again?
You’re never gonna keep her down
But it’s Billie who takes a whiskey drink.
What exactly did Amber expect to happen there?
She was too busy writing the movie in her head; this is just another day at the office for Sal…
Sal, doing her best Rita Repulsa impression: Curses! Noble Warrior, you have foiled me again! Now to retreat back into my lair!
Then she’d complain about a sudden headache and call people childish names.
Now I’m picturing Amber as Mr. Satan.
Lol Screw you guys this actually made me laugh. 😂
Thank you! We’re here ’til Thursday! Try the veal! 😉
I’m actually shipping out tonight, to beat the traffic. Also, don’t try the veal, it encourages the needless slaughter of a helpless baby.
Lol. The strangling move. I should have seen that coming, with the number of times she used that on Joyce
Joyce off to one side, ‘I taught her that!’
That’s a pretty grim callback.
Sal has a strongly-repressed urge to strangle weirdos.
It’s much better now. It’s not repressed anymore.
i like how sal just doesn’t even know what amber is talking about and doesn’t care
I really don’t. Neither is listening to the other, even though they could learn a lot. They’re fighting what they think the other person is, which is apparently not up for negotiation. They’re speaking incoherently and trying to seriously injure each other. They’re entirely out of control and won’t stop at least until one is unconscious. Despite Sal running after Ethan to prove that she can de-escalate, and Amber afraid that her rage would be destructive unless she let off steam, they both lost all their progress. They are the worst versions of themselves, the versions they thought they could escape. They are blazing frenzies of rage, immune to logic and opposing viewpoints. They are two fireworks colliding head on.
And they are the same. In the original flashback, Ethan told Amber that she and Sal were the same. For awhile it looked like Amber was what Sal had overcome, and that she needed to get over her anger to get on with her life. But now, neither one is in control. All their anger was buried, and in fighting, they unearthed each other’s. And they’re equally powerful.
At the start of this storyline, I thought this confrontation would be a deep cathartic conversation. Instead, they’re shellacking each other, animals fighting to the death. Which is just as effective; they have an audience who knows why they have all this anger. When the haze of red blows over, they will see what they have done and they will have to pick up the pieces. Or maybe they won’t. Maybe they see the mess and convince themselves that like every other bad thing in their lives, it is the other one’s fault.
Sal has nothing to learn from Amber.
And Amber has nothing to learn from Sal. They both lived very different lives. Neither is handling their situation properly. Both can’t let go. Both won’t learn. Period.
Sal is rehabilitated, so at a bare minimum Amber can learn that that’s possible. She goes on all day about how she’s a monster, as if that’s some immutable fact, like a warlock cursed her and now she must commit 1 act of violence a day regardless of how she might feel on the matter, and yet Sal hasn’t robbed any gas stations lately.
Yeah, because rehabilitated people chokeslam people all the time. That’s a thing they teach you in therapy. (Before you say she did in self defense, let me point out that Amber was 100% self absorbed, and this was a perfect chance for Sal to get away, instead she has decided to go all in into this debacle, because of #reasons)
You’re allowed to confront your violent stalker. That is not a sign that you are relapsing into old criminal habits.
Any law abiding citizen can be pushed to extremes if they’re harassed for months on end.
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think Amber is in any way in the right here (As a matter of fact, I think she needs to spend some time in a mental hospital), but to denominate her a stalker is simpllfying the issue between them that really makes me love this storyline. Amber very clearly did not want this confrontation, it was Sal who initiated it. However, Amber’s deranged behavior did lead her to instigate other such confrontation in the past that would have primed Sal for this. However, considering Amber’s SEVERE mental issues (the kind that should really make people think if she really can live functionaly by herself), I dunno that she can be held responsible for all her actions that escalated this situation into this very messed up point.
My point however, is that at this point in the storyline, Sal should know that there is nothing to be gained in this conversation (she’s the only mentally sane one here) and should disengage. Instead, she continues to escalate this. Which denotes the exact behavioral pattern Marcie was on her case for. Her inability to just take the L, walk away, and maybe decide to change her approach.
Of course Amber didn’t want this confrontation. That’s why she wore a mask when she was violently stalking for months. Tough titties on that one.
Sorry, I could’ve phrased that better. Amber didn’t want this confrontation, but this was in no way a sign that she was planning on ceasing to violently stalk Sal, or a sign that she no longer needed to be dealt with.
She hasn’t wanted the confrontation since day 1. Hence the mask. Sal’s giving it to her regardless, you know, on account of the violent stalking.
Considering they had conversations with each other where they acted friendly towards the other, and how Amber was freaking out about not wanting this confrontation literally seconds before it started. I’d say it was pretty obvious that before this fight started, Amber did not want it, at least not the side of her that was in control. Until Sal approached and literally threw down the gauntlet. They both launched into the fight with gusto, but it was clearly Sal who goaded her into it. Not saying she does not have a reason to, but at this instance Sal is as much in control of the situation as Amber is. And she’s just letting rage take over. Neither of them is justified in the way they’re handling this situation even if Amber’s behavior has been more persistent and harmful. Sal still has had many opportunities to bow out and has taken none of them.
Of course Sal is in control of the situation.
She actually knows who she’s dealing with for the first time since this has started.
Confronting her violent stalker is still not a sign that she is relapsing into old criminal habits. Any law abiding citizen would likely do the same in her shoes. She has been pushed to extremes by months of harassment.
Amber needs to be dealt with, and the police have proven ineffectual with her in the past.
Again, at this point qualifying Amber and Sal’s relationship as her simply being a violent stalker greatly simplifies their relationship and reduces it.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2018/comic/book-9-comic/01-flyin-to-the-red/goin-down/
Here are 3 strips where they show the two of them actually cooperating towards a common goal and having real conversations. And it was a cooperation that they both agreed upon, clearly. So, it’s a lot more complex than Amber being simply a violent stalker. That being said, I am in agreement Amber needs to be dealt with. She’s fucking dangerous to herself and others. I’m just saying, Sal is not the one to do it, and she’s not justified in what she’s doing here or how she’s doing it. Not one bit.
Oh wow! Sal played nice with Amber for a moment! I guess she was asking for it! *eyeroll*
That’s not at all what I’m saying, I’m saying they were more than just stalker/stalkee. I’m also saying confronting your stalker is fine, choke-slamming them is assault.
Just as a note, the stalking has been less than a month. Their first real (non-flashback) encounter (http://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-4/03-up-all-night-to-get-vengeance/my-share/) took place roughly 3 in-universe weeks ago.
I think all the comments about Amber being the violent stalker, ha s given people Amnesia that Sal chose to escalate. Sal decided to make it a fight. Sal threw the first punch.
Sal had no interest in confronting her stalker until she realized it was the same girl who stabbed her in the hand years ago. So Gangler your entire argument is moot. Sal STARTING the fight here has nothing to do with what happened at college but what happend at the gas station years ago.
If Amber hadn’t been there that day Sal still would have been arrested. And her parents still would have practically disowned her. The only difference in her life would be a lack of a physical scar on her hand.
That’s not entirely true, Vukodiak. Sal definitely wanted to confront AG before now. It just ended up getting overshadowed by Ryan and as they worked together on that, they were making peace. And then she found out that the person who stalked and harassed her was also the girl who stabbed her without any sort of legal or parental consequences (although her dad took out his embarrassment on her mom, because he’s an abusive tool, though Sal couldn’t have known that) and who she just found kissing her brother the other day. That is a lot to take in, and yeah, Sal feels more than a little manipulated. That’s what she was yelling about before they BOTH agreed they wanted to fight. It’s a culmination of all her problems with Amber (and her problems with AG, though Sal doesn’t know they’re separate).
Sal wouldn’t be disabled if Amber hadn’t been there, that’s true, but her problems with Amber are related to things Amber actually did, the same way Amber’s problems with Sal are related to things Sal actually did.
I think Sal DID learn to control it, but finding out the truth about Amber caused her to lapse severely
Not really, actually. She learned to listen to people who pull her back. Marcie, mostly. This kind of involves cooling down when requested to do so, but she never learned to identify situations that can and should be solved peacefully.
Better than nothing but not the same as having control.
Everyone has something to learn from one another. Even if it is from their mistakes.
You can’t learn from my mistakes because I never make any.
Um, saying that was a mistake, wasn’t it?
Must have been somebody else’s . Okay, then.
–“’cause the vandals broke the handles!”–Bob Dylan
oh man looks like Danny brought a ukelele to a fistfight
I’m pretty sure it can be used as a bludgeoning weapon, if nothing else.
I wouldn’t recommend it- I never like harming instruments if I can help it- but it *can* be used in a fist fight in a pinch.
Yeah, but unless he has the Catch Off Guard feat, he’ll be rolling with a -4 penalty for using an improvised weapon.
I thought that came standard for the Vigilante class.
He’s a bard. He can use his instrument as a weapon. If for nothing but the Rule of Cool.
it’s a ukulele tho
Battle Uke. +2 Battle Uke of Stunning.
It’s a support thing, his songs lift the spirit and make any task easier. “Break, break, break, break up the fight” sort of thing.
Danny is such a bard
Elan ftw
He’d gain incredible bonuses to stealth if he strips naked.
If Danny plays “Hurt”, they will both stop and sing the song.
EL KABONG!
Danny is the bard!
Quick use Calm Emotions Danny
Is it me or does the final panel look like it can be re-shaded to a pornagraphique?
It probably was just you until I had to go and read this comment.
^ all of this.
Ethan’s comment at the bottom of panel five probably didn’t help. Nor Danny’s in panel six.
those whose ships include Ethan are looking at the top speech bubble in panel five and saying, “YES YOU DO, ETHAN!”
I love comment/gravatar synergy.
Amber And Sal Pound Each Other In The Most Epic Of Hatefucks!
For a moment I thought you were writing a Chuck Tingle book: Amber and Sal Pound Each Other In The Butt.
there is a slipshine titled Amber And Mike Pound Each Other In The Most Epic Of Hatefucks. 🙂
if the context was vastly changed I could be into it
Well, it’s from the Shortpacked! continuum, so that’s pretty vast.
Wait, sorry, thought your comment was a reference to inahc’s comment… nvmd
I looked at it and thought “Amber, you are entirely too pleased with yourself”.
Even without shading it, it could be pornographic in a ‘rough sex’ sorta way.
totally inappropriate to the narrative, but I can’t help seeing Amber’s face in the last panel and thinking of slipshine. >.<
Honestly same
ohh yeah. That last panel looks more like “When your BF goes in unlubed”
They both don’t know when to quit. And by “they both”, I mean Amber.
Idk, to me, those red panels look like SAL red panels. Sal is the one emphasized in both. I think she’s also lost control here.
It’s a mutual red panel. They are both experiencing the Blinding Cloud of Rage
Didn’t Amber kind of quit at the start and Sal restarted it? Admittedly because she thought she’d won, but still, Amber doesn’t actually do anything this strip.
I think that’s a little silly to say. Remember how Amber STABBED Sal after SAL HAD BEEN RESTRAINED?? For all Sal knows, Amber won’t stop hurting/hunting her until she’s down for good. Sal has at least in the past walked away from fights, Amber tends to completely lose herself in a fight (her father, for example). And all this fighting isn’t curing her of her rage, its only feeding it.
…Not sure if a completely inappropriate avatar or a completely appropriate avatar.
It’s certainly fair that Sal wouldn’t trust or recognize it, but I was responding to “They both don’t know when to quit. And by “they both”, I mean Amber.”
Arguably, Amber did quit. She didn’t lose herself in rage as she’s done before. I think that’s important. I fully expected her too, but she didn’t.
Amber did quit, I also think she had some kind of mind break where she was like stuck in her mind knowing she actually did it as herself and not as amazigirl. You notice how amber won’t shut up about her finally doing it? Shes not registering the whole being attacked by Sal right now. Amber is kinda stuck in her head saying whats happening or what shes saying in her head but outside Sal is beating down on her and choking her out, but shes only making choking noises because of her body’s involuntary responses to the attacks and probably her repeating the “I really did it” So I don’t think shes in rage any more like I’m stuck literally in my own world.
Sal, I’m generally more on your team, but please don’t kill Amber or get yourself into more trouble.
Yeah, stranglehold seems like Sal might be getting caught up in the moment, taking things too far.
A brawl could be bad enough on her record without turning this into an attempted murder charge.
Optimistically maybe she just wants to hold Amber still and shut her up for a moment while she says her piece, and then she’ll bugger off and say something like “Don’t let me see you again”.
It’s definitely a stranglehold, but also one that can be adjusted accordingly while still being a restraint.
A stranglehold isn’t really any worse than anything else they’ve been doing to each other.
It actually reminds me of something my friend said he used to do. When people tried to fight him/someone else, he’d put them in a stranglehold until they calmed down. He was careful not to make them pass out though. That might be sales goal here though, make her pass out to end this
It’s a move in a fight. Strangling someone until they pass out or yield isn’t actually worse than kicking them in the head until they can’t fight anymore.
It’s also a known Sal reflex – she’s done it to Joyce.
Serious Blaine vibes from Amber in that fist panel.
You mean when she eases up?
She’s not easing up, she’s being distracted by her own issues.
No, she’s not. She’s stopping. In fact, she stopped on the last panel of yesterday strip.
At least 43% of Amber’s paneltime gives off Blaine vibes
Stop! Amber is nothing like Blaine. 90% of Amber’s victims deserve it. Blaine hurts innocent people for a living. Amber actively tries to be better and protects her community. Blaine gives zero fucks, and is the reason his community needs protection.
CHOKESLAM! CHOKESLAM! BAH GAWD KING SALLY WALKERTON IS MOUNTING A COMEBACK!
She’s got the Million Dollar Dream locked in, JR! Amber’s fading fast!
Now I have this mental image of Ethan coming in, picking Amber’s wrist and watch it fall 3 times, then calling for the bell. 😉
First time I laughed during this whole shitshow of an arc, thank you
oochies the strangling, that’s definitely not gonna be a good look huh.
*Professor Frink voice*: Niiiiiiiice lady-person, stop with the choking, glavin!
Yes Danny and Ethan, now would be a good time to break up the fight. Actually it would’ve been better if you’d tried to break up the fight a little earlier.
Or stopped it before it started. ETHAN!
Yes, because clearly Danny should be trying to get between two skilled fighters who are trying to kill each other. If you can interfere in a fight safely, do so, but airplane rules. Protect yourself first.
It’s not always easy to break up two very strong and determined fighters!
Ethan and Danny don’t have physical violence in their backgrounds, and they don’t like confrontation, so, they may have never even been in a fight before. Plus, though Ethan’s a big guy, Danny is really not built for fights that are more physical than strongly-worded emails.
It absolutely makes sense that they’d take this long to intervene.
Danny pulled Amber off Blaine last time she went beserk, but that was a one-sided fight. Ethan is very timid. I’d hate to imagine what would go down if Dorothy got involved.
Last time (and probably only time) that Dorothy witnessed physical violence, she froze. (She regretted that this turned out to be her default.)
The door had also been jammed shut. She couldn’t have done anything.
True. And it isn’t locked this time, and we know that Dorothy sees them fighting. She probably has the presence of mind not to try and get between them herself, as she’s way outmatched physically, but she’s very likely to call campus security or something.
Unlike Amber and Sal, she solves problems with her brain, not her body. (For the most part.)
Either one of them could snap Danny in half like a twig. He’s a scrawny bard.
Ethan’s big enough to physically separate them, but he freezes under pressure and he’s kind of a pacifist anyway.
This will only end with physical restraint if Tony and Beef (or maybe Jacob and Joe) wander by and decide to intervene.
They literally didn’t even try using loud voices they just stood there gawking.
What the hell are they supposed to do, in this situation? In real life, they might be able to do something; Sal is experienced and Amber is thoroughly trained, but if nothing else Ethan is a big dude. But in this universe, both Amber and Sal are unrealistic superhuman combat machines and Danny and Ethan are fucking absolutely powderpuffs. Either Sal or Amber could dispatch both of them in three seconds with one hand. It’s laughable to even suggest they can stop this fight if Amber and Sal aren’t willing to stop.
Both Amber and Sal care about both of them. (Even if in Sal’s case it’s mostly guilt from the hostage thing in Ethan’s case.) Sure, either of them could pound Danny and Ethan into the ground, but they don’t want to and getting in between them is likely the best way to break it up.
The risk is that they might get hit before Sal or Amber realizes, not that they’ll deliberately take them down to get back to fighting each other.
And isn’t that a pretty big risk? That’s kind of my point, here: Sal or Amber could utterly destroy these guys by accident.
They could have tried, you know, doing literally anything other than standing there in silence and watching.
I’m sorry, my bad, I’ll just blame them for freezing up and panicking at the outset of an unexpected, extremely violent and bloody fight involving their loved ones. That’s a super-unrealistic reaction for two extremely gentle people to have, how unreasonable of them.
Ethan didn’t even try to defuse the situation while it was still ramping up to violence.
So we’re all in agreement then. All of this is Ethen’s fault.
God damnit I did not need that stupid song back in my head
. . . . Oh dear. This. . .Is not a good image of Amber’s mental state if temporarily beating Sal complete took her out of the fight repeating the same sentence. She’s not even fighting back anymore. The FUCK did Blaine, Blane(?), do to you Amber?
And Ethan DOES have a point here. Amber and Sal are talented and stubborn enough to just *never* stop fighting until the other is left broken on the ground and NEED to be stopped before both are seriously injured.
Eh, people were commenting that Sal wasn’t fighting back in yesterday’s strip. Probably the same situation. Sal just has the upper hand at the moment and Amber can’t get a hit in.
But now they’re exhausted, and Sal has Amber in a chokehold. Much more powerful position than Amber towering over Sal without restraining her. Both are going insane, saying stuff that makes no sense, but it’s the ninth inning and Sal is up by one.
They’ve been fighting for like ten seconds. They could probably keep on going for hours without exhausting themselves.
Yeah, this comic is more grounded than some other versions of these characters, but it seems like people need to be repeatedly reminded that, by this universe’s standards, Sal and Amber are fucking top-percentile superhuman specimens. They’ve got plenty in the tank.
That’s actually a very distorted perception of reality. Fighting is EXHAUSTING. Most fights last less than a minute. Truly experienced, fit fighters can lengthen that to several minutes. Fights only go on for hours in storybooks. And in Dragonball Z.
And yet, this is a storybook. A comic even.
Yeah, so like, that’s my point. This world is absolutely not realistic when it comes to the physical mechanics of heroic people. Amber and Sal are doing fucking action movie shit on the reg and surviving. Which isn’t to say that this fight isn’t exhausting them faster than almost any other that they’ve been in, but they’re not exactly the type to be unable to push through…
Neither of them are particularly used to somebody being able to take the upper hand from them, after all. Like, Amber’s dad is (according to the AU buffs) a freaking mafia muscle and she absolutely obliterated him. Sal and Amber are very strong fighters. They aren’t very often in fights where someone is actually a threat to them.
Anybody can take the upper hand if you just stand there like an idiot rambling about how you’ve won.
It’s been like a three days Ethan! Welcomt to the party!
I’m really glad Sal wasn’t completely beaten down, honestly.
Joyce to the rescue! (When was the last time we saw Joyce anyways?)
Learning that she can teleport to Dorothy, who is conveniently at the scene.
Yeah, last panel is where people are gonna come in and witness this. And Kom what now? Just kidding. I’ll google it.
If you really want to get the full experience, play the entire scene where this song is from.
Then sit back and go, “What the hell did I just watch?”
My prediction? Whatever happens, Sal, the darker-skinned girl, will take the lion’s share of blame and punishment – possibly all of it. Her friends will abandon her, she might be kicked out of the college (or not, she’s a recurring character, she could just be heavily punished some other way). Amber might feel guilt, or she might have a further mental break and begin to take lots of things too far.
Neither will really learn their lesson.
She could keep living in town. I get the feeling she’d want to leave if something like that happened, but she definitely wouldn’t be heading ‘home.’
I mean, Marcie’s not talking to her anymore and it’s pretty clear Sal’s reading that as ‘Marcie no longer wants to be friends’ (despite Marcie’s words to the contrary). Marcie was almost certainly a huge part of her motivation to come back. If they’re not friends and she’s no longer enrolled, why bother staying?
Ergo, I find it unlikely she’s getting kicked out of school.
(Because I’ll cry if she leaves is probably not going to be persuasive :P)
That’s why I think she’d want to leave, and yeah, it makes it pretty unlikely, but I mean, Bloomington until she figured out (never, since time barely passes) where she was going.
It’s possible, but not what I’m predicting (and yeah I would not be happy either).
I’m not even sure where she’d live if she got kicked out of school.
I’m not even sure where she’s been living. Year-round boarding school that runs through the summer after senior year right up until college starts?
We don’t know, all we know is Walky’s not seen her since they sent her away when the story starts, he doesn’t ‘keep tabs’ on her, Sal’s highly suspicious of him at the start, and Word of Willis is they haven’t spoken in years when the story starts.
Year round school might be it, especially if some of the people guessing it was a reform school were right. Could also be she found someone willing to let her crash with them (it’s implied Sal’s had a few unsavoury friends besides Asher in her past – she tells Marcie that she and Sal have always ‘picked the worst damn people’. It could be one of those people, or perhaps one of her ‘friends’ who idealized her a la Joyce?)
It’s like this is a dumbing-of-age story or something.
Yeah, what is all this talk of lessons?
Unless she’s just out of the strip forever, I don’t overly buy it going that far. I’m guessing the ramifications are much more likely to be social than legal.
Eh, the arc has to come to a conclusion at some point. This seems like it would be as good a place for a climax as you’re gonna find.
It really depends how many witnesses there are for this.So far Danny, Ethan, and Dorothy have been shown and they may not snitch as all of them are sympathetic to a degree to the two fighting. Also depends if there’s camera footage. Although if there are cameras I don’t know how they’d catch this but not all the numerous brawls AG and Sal have participated in on campus. Anyway they could still get away with this. Though I’d be disappointed if they both just got off scott free for violently brawling like this.
I’m not a legal expert, but I think for the law to get involved here one of them would have to press charges, and it sounds like neither of them are interested in that.
Sal knows the courts would bring no justice to Amber, and Amber’s too caught up in her vigilante fantasy to let the police put a damper in it.
That would be if they wanted to press charges for assault. If you are fighting in public, there are usually generic offenses the police can charge with – affray, disturbing the peace, etc, depending on jurisdiction.
And at this level of violent and dangerous, charges would DEFINITELY be filed.
Pretty sure these are still the same Stairs of Destiny that Ryan was stabbed in front of – and we KNOW they had a security camera. That makes campus security way more likely to get involved, especially with the potential for other witnesses.
I think Willis has said these are different stairs.
That does make sense actually – I’m not super adept at distinguishing things but it looked like Dorothy maybe had food so maybe it’s a dining hall?
Her friend already abandoned her. (And if you count Danny, he will probably not abandon her. You know Danny.)
Ok ok we’re all good they seem to be done it’s over now- Oh god it’s not over, shit!
This storyline got me on Willis’ Patreon. Unfortunately, I now realize that what I really want isn’t tomorrow’s strip, but to never run out of new strips .
Tomorrow’s strip is a decent consolation prize vs the impossible, though.
Hack Willis’ brain
It all comes tumbling down, tumbling down, tumbling down
I know
I know I let you down
I’ve been a fool to myself
I thought that I could live for no one else
But now, through all the hurt and pain, it’s time for me to respect.
The ones you love mean more than anything.
I’m still wondering if Walky’s going to show up before this gets broken up.
Welp, finally the boys woke up. At least there aren’t any suggestions of mud, bikinis and an inflatable pool.
In real time, this probably has taken less than a minute to play out.
Yeah, guessing Dorothy may well be shortly behind Danny – Ethan’s only barely processed ‘crap, this is a fight’ and doesn’t know Sal well enough to know how ugly it would get (nor do we think he knows quite how bad Amber’s brain has gotten – Gonna guess that either the ‘you stalked me’ or the ‘Amazi-Girl and I aren’t on speaking terms’ or both are news to him, at least in the extent.) Danny knows but had ground to cover, and Dorothy… Gee I sure hope she’s still spending time at the Counseling Center, ‘cause this seems guaranteed to rip that trauma right open again.
Unless this is an RPG with a turn based fighting system, these last few strips have probably been a matter of moments. There hasn’t really been THAT much time to jump in without eating an errant punch, but with them wrestling on the ground, hopefully that’s changed.
Walky will save the day. Somehow. Probably by getting in between them and getting punched into next week by both of them.
That would be funny
They’d both punch him at the same time in a cartoonish fashion. It won’t be funny or pretty. And both will immediately cry out, “WALKY!”. Then the healing can begin.
Well, sal would cry out “DAVID!” because calling him Walky would be weird.
I thought she usually called him “Bro”. Did she ever call him by his first name?
At the start, when talking about him to Joyce, she did. She said ‘David ain’t really that dependable.’ ‘David?’ ‘David Walkerton. ‘Walky’. It’s both our last name. I ain’t calling him that. It’s weird.’
So, yeah, she usually calls him bro, but when she’s called him by name, it’s been David.
Thats what you get for stopping midway through a fight to gloat
I had no idea what kom susser tod was until I looked it up just now.
So this is going from aggravated assault and battery to attempted murder.
Have I mentioned Amber needs, in a very real way, to be hospitalized until they find the right combo of meds and therapy for her coocoo self. I’d say Sal too but she’d just “rebel”.
Yeah this has escalated way farther than it needed to. Amber’s gonna go down next then get back up with a knife, then Sal goes down and gets back up with a gun and by next week they’re throwing galaxies at each other!
You do see how Sal is the one doing the strangling here, right? This is just a stupid fistfight that they BOTH chose to start, but everyone is acting like Amber (and only Amber) has gone off the rails here
I said Sal too, but Amber has a bit more of a history of unstable and violent behavior.
Yeah, pretty much.
Not clear to me this is really an escalation over the rest of the fight either. If this is attempted murder, so was Sal strangling Joyce when she woke her up.
🙁
And with another blood- and drama-soaked sacrifice, the dimensional walls weaken further on these accursed stairs.
The Cult of The Soggies is having a great time this semester, they’ve barely had to do anything and people keep showing up to bleed on them or break up. Pretty great.
(Unfortunately for the Cult of The Soggies, as we all know, it’s not violence that draws them but the existence of people who are not straight, white, able-bodied and neurotypical cisgender dudes. Blood and drama probably invokes SOMETHING, though. Probably the Cheese.)
the stairs, bro! I warned you aboutthe stairs!1!
The Cheese is the only one willing and able to fix this, so… yay?
The Cheese or someone much less benevolent. Head Alien would probably give it another few rounds while he watched, though. And the Martians… let’s NOT bring the Martians into this universe, the floor wouldn’t just be wiped but pressure-cleaned.
Monkey Master would probably pick them up and hold them apart from each other while making exasperated remarks. That could work, at least long enough for someone else to intervene. (No idea what that would look like, though.)
Ah right. ‘Willing’, missed that part. Like I said though, Monkey Master would probably be a decent short term solution in terms of extradimensional entities and I think he’d probably respond to being summoned into someone else’s fight with a ‘you’re fucking kidding me, HER again?’ followed by just Dealing With This before they can react.
so, thejeff was commenting about amber still being in control of herself and not going berserker.
congrats, here we have amber actually *stopping* at having “won” instead of going into stabbing-ryan levels of overboard.
Aha! :O
So that’s what she means by ”I did it”, maybe?
Not won, but controled herself?
She’s always been in control. She’s just a violent psychopath who runs around looking for excuses to slash people up.
If you gave her a knife right now she’d do it again without remorse.
No on several levels.
Amber is not a psychopath- they never feel guilt or love and we’ve seen Amber display both before.
She has serious anger problems fuelled by the shame her father gave her- she thinks literally defeating Sal will make her feelings of being powerless/worthless go away.
It’s cause Sal’s robbery attempt made Amber confront the two things she hates most about herself: her fear and her rage- because she froze when Ethan was in danger and then went crazy with the knife after it was already over. It all happened because of Sal, in her mind.
Because she doesn’t know about Marcie she just sees Sal as another bully, like Blaine. She wants to take down all the Blaines of the world but beating up random criminals hasn’t brought her relief. We know it’s because her problems are way more complicated than that but she thinks it’s because she needs to go back and fix that one night at the convenience store. If she can redo that night then it’ll be over.
True. Amber is not. Her father almost certainly is though.
I’m obviously not using the medical definition of “Psychopath”.
I’m using its common parlance. “an unstable and aggressive person”
I’d go farther and say there’s less medically wrong with Amber than she’d like you to think.
She’ll spin a yarn about how she’s not actually responsible for any of her own actions, but she is, and has been from day 1. There’s no pill that’s gonna correct what’s wrong with her brain.
Everything about this comment is gross and dismissive of mental illness.
Being mentally ill and being responsible for your actions are not two mutually exclusive states.
Not only has Amber herself never used her mental illness as an excuse for her actions, condemning herself and beating herself up excessively over every little fuck up IS ONE OF HER PROBLEMS.
Of course. There are many kinds of mental illness where you are still responsible for your actions. Like the kinds of pain and trauma and anger management problems Amber deals with.
I just don’t believe that there exists a separate entity in her head who commandeers her body and makes her do only the crimes she wanted to do anyway, absolving her of any of the guilt that would come with these crimes.
DID is a real condition, and it is in fact not one that would absolve her of any guilt. Unless you think she’s faked not having memory of Amazi-Girl’s actions the previous night, for an audience of NO ONE:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2017/comic/book-8/02-this-is-the-way-that-we-love/douche/
Yeah well, talk to Willis, cause it’s pretty damn clear at this point that Amber’s not just faking separate alters.
And the Amber persona usually uses that to pin the blame on herself and the good she does on Amazi-Girl anyway, which is completely contrary to whatever you’re describing.
Sal still started the fight NOT Amber. That was her choice. She was in confronting her stalker. She fought alongside a Amazi-girl muiltple times by her own choice.
It was only after learning it was the girl who stabbed her in the hand that she chose to fight. I could hit by a car last year it would not be justifiable for me to beat the shit out of the guy this year Rather then De-escalate and clear the air like with Ethan. She chose to escalate rather then consider two seconds that maybe she traumatized her too.
Yeah, well she’s also justified in wanting to confront the girl who stabbed her, especially when she finds out the girl also stalked and harassed her and, during that time they were working together to deal with a bigger problem (wherein Sal also still questioned whether what they were doing was effective and AG’s motivations) and never thought to tell her she was the girl who stabbed her (because, yes, she was traumatized by it too).
And on that note, Amber was just as down to fight as Sal was. She agreed she wanted to fight as well. They both agreed they wanted to fight, this fight’s on both of them.
I usually agree with you regarding amber, but you’re off the mark here bud. Amber definitely is mentally I’ll, I’m not sure if she canonically has DID because I saw someone yesterday saying that with the way he portrays her it would be a bad idea to use that diagnosis (something along those lines)
My only issue is when commenters use her mental illness to excuse her actions
Medical definition of psychopath is formally out of the DSM and its use in common parlance increases stigma against actual low-empathy people (a lot of whom are perfectly decent human beings who also happen to be, say, surgeons, because they don’t experience the same level of fear of messing up that would paralyze higher-empathy people in the same situation.)
Amber has literally demonstrated that she doesn’t have memories of AG and AG doesn’t have memories of Amber. (The first was linked, the second was AG’s first strip this storyline – the phrasing of ‘couldn’t find my mask’ vs a problem with it is significant.) Amber has described herself as dissociating and her relationship with AG as sharing a meat puppet, including a strip where she recounted the car chase from her perspective and talked about not having control of her own body and AG doing things rather than her – she very clearly is still processing things as she says them. All of this makes her dissociation as canon as it can be without a diagnosis on strip.
Commenters have said ‘I have DID and this echoes my experience.’ Willis has indicated these comments are very helpful and influence his writing of the character. Willis has said one of the reasons he shied away from diagnosing her on panel for a long while at least is that he didn’t want to play into the Dangerous Mental Illness trope that’s particularly prevalent with the ‘scary’ ones like DID, and those commenters saying that even if she has facets of the trope her being sympathetic through it and portrayed with nuance was still really good representation for them has impacted him and how he writes her further. Amber is clearly and explicitly some stripe of mentally ill. Portraying her as flatly evil does a disservice to the commenters. She’s in a seriously unhealthy place mentally and I think she might well need involuntary hospitalization (the AG out at night without her knowledge thing alone is like five different alarm bells, and this fight makes it clear Amber and Sal can’t be living in the same hall without serious therapy for both,) but that’s because I don’t think Amber can get out of this brain cycle without outside help and there is no one in this strip able to help her.
I’ve screwed up in comments before as well. Subject is touchy and Amber’s situation is like eight different kinds of complicated because Narrative. But she can grow and get better if given a better environment to learn. (This one is currently the absolute worst she could be in barring Blaine being one of her teachers.)
She’s very much centered in Cluster B.
She may no t be a Full blown psychopath or fully psychotic, but she has th e potential to go all the way.
She knows it , too. Amazigi rl was created as a sort of fuse when she has dissociative episodes and might cause other people harm.
Blaine described himself when young as sharing similar motivation s as Amazigirl and Amber.
I doubt she was capable of empathy or guilt when got Ryan.
It was pure glee and blood lust. That is what she is ashamed of, who she becomes, how she loses control. Not what she does.
Even Amazigirl would register very high on psychpathy scale ( ad any Hero ( vigilant e ) would.
Im waiting for a Blaine like Personality to emerge. I suspect the rage of t he panels is an anger junkie looking to harm.
Ryan and Blaine both got what they deserved. She was ashamed of herself because simply wanting to hurt someone and feeling justified doing it is scary to her. Even when it’s self defense.
You’re never going to see that Blaine-like personality emerge because she’s better than him. His rage is only restrained by his need for self-preservation. He never has any qualms about taking it out on others, and never feels guilt about it afterwards.
She’s got her own anger problems but she is not her father.
@gangler:
Amber didn’t even do it the LAST time without remorse, and let me remind you that dude was the one who brought the knife and attacked HER, after declaring his intent to attack Dorothy and Joyce when he was done with her.
Of course, after Amber spent months seeking just such a situation, running around campus confronting even the pettiest of criminals looking for any kind of villain she could direct her violence at.
wtf does that even mean? If she hadn’t been there Dorothy and Joyce would have been maimed or WORSE
Notice how none of those petty criminals have ended up in the hospital? Hell, most of the criminals she’s gone after suffered “being chased off” and nothing worse.
Sal is the only person she’s ever sought to escalate to violence. Everyone else Amazi-Girl has be actually shown getting violent attacked her when she told them to get lost, or were in the process of attacking someone else when she arrived.
But sure, she’s a deranged animal, looking to attack ANYONE for ANY REASON 🙄
Wevet seen her escalate Vandalism to serious violence.
Ag has beaten someone to the ground who stole a handbag. That’s not even near adequate.
Please point me to the strip where that happened
I mean if here handling of those guys defacing a stop sign is any indication her approach is “Try to verbally escalate the situation into a fight so she feels justified beating the shit out of them.” Like, Amazi-girl is very much just an outlet for Amber’s impulse to exert her physical power over others due to her fear of powerlessness with a thin facade of “justice” to justify it to herself.
People Amazigirl verbally goads don’t have to fight her if they don’t want to. The guys who sprayed the stop sign didn’t.
I know, that’s not my point. My point is Amazi-girl WANTS to employ violence she just needs to justify it to herself as evidenced by the fact she tries to pick fights when there’s no reason to over petty shit like underage drinking or minor vandalism.
Yeah well fuck those dudes for attacking her. If they’re that easily provoked to violence I don’t feel even slightly bad for them
They didn’t take the bait actually and she was really put out about it.
Well of course that’s exactly the same as going around beating people up for no reason. Clearly she’s completely out of control. ANYONE COULD BE NEXT
@gangler: I know you don’t see it, but that’s Amber’s entire set of problems in a nutshell: losing control (Sal, Blaine, Ryan) and having that tear her apart – even when she shouldn’t feel bad about it, like with Blaine and Ryan. Amazi-Girl’s original purpose was controlling her own rage and channeling it without losing control.
That’s why her getting in this fight and beating Sal (or thinking she had) without losing control, either to rage or resorting to Amazi-Girl, was so important to her.
It’s still all screwed up of course, but not at all in the ways you’re seeing it.
I continue to be annoyed that anyone is surprised by this. She’s got issues, but she’s not a damned animal.
Look, we have to pick a side to root for in this fight and then we have to paint the other side as a complete monster to justify it. It’s just human nature.
But damn does it get to me sometimes.
You monster!
I was actually hoping Amber would win this fight. I found Sal’s “I’ve never lost a fight” attitude annoying. But, it doesn’t look like there are any winners here.
I think Amber did just win something important. I hope she can keep it.
But yeah, there were no winners here from the start.
…
…
…
I’m somewhere between paying for the early strips and dropping this series all together.
…
…
I can’t handle suspense.
Pay for it, even if it’s just for one month it’s worth the 5$ trust me.
Come back in a month
There is always the “save up strips for a couple weeks and come back when it’s all over” strategy. I’m tempted to just start from the beginning to get a handle on Amazi-Girl/Amber and who is real and who is in charge etc, anyway. I’m rooting for Amazi-Girl.
AG is the one who did all that stalking, recall. No matter what Amber and AG think of their respective roles, AG is far from clean in this situation. (And she had a chance to talk about this weeks ago – Sal would almost certainly still be furious, but not as intensely betrayed, with less of a sense she’s lost Marcie, and not with the element of ‘and now you’re kissing my brother?!’ which I’m betting are all ramping up Sal’s anger even further. Don’t try and claim someone as a sidekick without telling them you both share a Tragic Backstory, AG.)
And, of course, it will be *now* the campus police will intervene… and Sal will be accused of being the aggressor.
The said thing? If there’s some CCTV around, the recording actually *will* give the impression that Sal’s to blame here. With no sound, it will look like Amber is scared of her – and it will show Sal throwing the first punch. Without the context provided by sound, Sal will be doomed :\
Be wary that there can be and end of chapter at any moment. The next time we see Sal she might be in jail!
When was the last time we ever saw the campus police in this strip?
I’m pretty sure the answer is “never,” unless maybe they were in the background during some of the Toedad sequences.
I’m trying to imagine how the narrative arc would be furthered by campus police. There are possibilities, but they tend to be at odds with the furtherance of dramatic sequences.
Sal was the agressor, Amber was scared she was going to hurt Ethan, and Sal did throw the first punch.
Sal did throw the first punch, but she wasn’t the agressor – she bumped into Ethan and Amber by accident. It was Amber who first went into the fighting stance (because of her delusion that Sal was going to hurt her and Ethan). Also, Amber kind of goaded Sal into this fight verbally. Sal was furious at discovering who Amber was, but it was Amber’s behaviour that moved this confrontation from verbal to physical.
Verbal goading doesn’t count in my book.
Also, might or might not matter legally speaking, depending where you live.
Provocation is actually a legal defense, albeit a controversial one. It doesn’t completely get rid of the charges, but it can definitely lessen them.
But I don’t think anything in here rises to that level. Or at least that isn’t shared.
Depends what you did, what the provocation was, and where you live.
I’d say the blame is shared. They both were happy to fight and they both escalated to it.
Sal bumped into them by chance, but Amber was bumped into by chance. A draw there.
Amber went into a stance, but was still defensive. That’s not justification for attacking.
I’m not even sure what you’re thinking of for verbal goading and why Sal’s doesn’t apply at least as much. If nothing else, Sal was the first to suggest fighting – “wonder if you could even take me”.
Pretty much. They both agreed they wanted to fight, so they’re even.
I keep thinking that if anyone’s “doomed” here, it’s Amber since I supect that this brawl will be referenced when Blaine shows up soon (i.e., sometime before I die) with evidence that Amber hacked the university’s systems to fix Walky’s grades. But what do I know? I’m not even tempted to become a patreon.)
It’d be cool if Amber actually faced consequences for stuff but that doesn’t seem to be how she do.
The problem is, if Sal wins, she loses. That could be said about either of them, but Sal’s the one who will face the most consequences. I was worried about Amber hurting her, but I really didn’t want her to turn this fight around.
I’m also concerned that if Amber loses, next time she’ll bring a weapon.
Not really her style. Or Amazi-girl’s for that matter.
Sal’s hand and The Rapist’s everything would disagree.
Amber didn’t bring those weapons. Both of those knives were brought into the situation by the people who ended up getting hurt with them. It’s one thing to take an opponent’s weapon and use it, it’s quite another to intentionally bring a weapon to a fight.
Both times she used knives it was in the grip of her rage. No sign she’d ever plan something like that and bring them with her.
Or why isn’t Amazi-Girl emulating some crappy 90’s anti-hero with dozens of knives strapped all over her?
I dunno if I’d call her emotions during the encounter with GashFace “rage” so much. She was scared, if I’m remembering correctly?
The two are not mutually exclusive.
Depends on how you interpret the face, I guess.
The first expressions could be fear. The smile is not.
I grew up in the 90’s. Some of those characters were pretty good.
I don’t think Amber will bring a weapon because she knows the presence of weapons magnifies her ability to do things she regrets. Its not her fault middle name Ryan didn’t realize that by bringing a knife he was making it a knife fight.
I hate them both so much I don’t know who to root against anymore. I was originally all for Amber to get it in on Sal but then yesterday’s page irked me enough to flip sides for today but Sal getting in some punches doesn’t bring me any joy… .. Sigh.
I’m team Ruth-knocks-their-heads-together-until–pass-out
COULD YOU IMAGINE IF THIS COMIC UPDATED ONCE A WEEK
OMG that would be terrible.
We would DIE
… of old age before the timeline progressed to Halloween.
I refuse mortality until this plot resolves!
Great gravatar for that
Amber, this is why we don’t just assume the other person’s done.
For crying out loud, you just took advantage of that mistake with Sal, come on! 😛 My inner martial artist is judging you.
That said…yeah, no, that statement was always gonna make this continue. At least Ethan or Danny might intervene now.
Hey look at that, we agree on something 😉
Bound to happen at some point.
Where were they when Sal threw that first punch?! Ethan could’ve easily stepped in! Maybe he would’ve eaten a fist for his troubles but better than letting two people try to kill each other.
Assuming the strips involving this fight are generally in real time this fight hasn’t even gone more than two minutes. Ethan probably until this point was in shock and couldn’t move.
I can maybe believe that even if I don’t want to, but he also could’ve stepped in back when they both were spouting edgy nonsense at each other before a punch had even been thrown. Not that this is Ethan’s fault at all, but he did kind of drop the ball on this one.
Ethan’s also kind of a marshmallow. The only aggression he’s capable of is attacking people on online Transformers forums.
True, but he didn’t even give a token “Hey guys, lets just calm down”
In his defence, he was busy thinking about transformers.
From the looks and sound of things, Danny wasn’t in range. Guess with Ethan is that he:
– Didn’t realize it would escalate to violence, and how quickly it would,
– Would side with Amber anyway, and
– Didn’t realize this fight was between two evenly-matched fighters who can both do serious damage if they let themselves.
(Again, I don’t think Ethan’s aware of things like AG stalking Sal for like a month and starting fights with her off-campus.)
Both Ethan and Danny shy away from confrontation, and even if they didn’t, if they have any lick of sense they’ll get nowhere near striking range of the fight. Their reasonable options are campus police or a firehose.
If Ethan ate a fist that would make it worse. Amber probably would’ve killed Sal.
Dumbing of Age 1.11: I Did (Not) Do It
I know, I know I’ve let you down
I’ve been a fool to myself
I thought that I could
Live for no one else
Where are you pulling that from? I’m getting this:
Come, sweet death,
Come, blessed rest!
Come lead me to peace
For I am weary of the world,
O come! I wait for you,
Come soon and lead me,
Close my eyes.
Come, blessed rest!
Don’t know what this has to do with the scene 🙂
Seriously, and I didn’t realize this until just now, but that sequence from Evangelion has much more in common, musically, with “A Whiter Shade of Pale” than with “Komm suesser Tod.” But the latter title is, of course, much more suited to an apocalypse than the former.
Yeah, putting aside who’s “more at fault” (Amber is), this is not pretty. They’re going to put each other in the hospital.
willis will make an odd couple type spinoff about them sharing a hospital room
Sal suggested they fight and threw the first punch. Over something that happened five years ago. When she choose to rob a convenience store and hold a knife to a kids throat.
Sorry Sal has the lions share of the blame.
Amber stalked and harassed and repeatedly tried to pick fights with her and then started dating her brother five years ago? Sal has lots of very recent reasons to be pissed at Amber and they’re all further compounded by Amber having stabbed her.
Amber agreed to fight. If Sal wanting to fight her makes it her fault, why does Amber agreeing not make it equally her’s?
Because Amber might not be in a frame of mind to make that decision. I think she is but I can see why someone might think otherwise.
Yeah, that’s absolutely not true. Mental illness can absolutely impact the way you think about things, but Amber knows what a fight is, what it entails and she agreed she wanted to fight. It’s not a good or necessary decision, but it is one she’s legally competent to make.
Yeah, but “legally competent” is a horrific standard for dealing with actual mental issues.
Even though I agree with you here.
Legally competent is often a bullshit standard because it doesn’t really take into account things that affect your thinking. But in this case, she’s also regularly competent, so I was okay with bringing it up here.
Amber suggested violence first, when she told Sal to direct it away from good people.
Is that what she meant? I just thought she was telling her to stay away from Ethan.
Stay away from Ethan, by focusing it on herself, because Amber is not “good people” in her own mind.
Definitely to stay away from Ethan, but that’s really hard to read as “Attack me!”
Mostly, she was talking about her own tactics – channeling her anger through Amazi-Girl onto “bad people”. Probably with the memory of Sal working with AG against Ryan in mind.
I could see that, except that she’s approached Sal in the past and literally asked to be beaten up.
That, and also with Amber positioning herself in front of Ethan and pushing him back, it’s pretty clearly that Ethan is intended as the “good person”. But Amber, who’s between him and Sal, can take the beating. Which is why Sal is so confused on the next page, as she had ZERO intentions of attacking either of them.
I read it as her calling sal a bad person and insinuating she wanted to fight
I like Terminator Sal. I honestly expected Sal’s perm to go on the fritz and for her to go Super (Afro) Saiyan.
There is no way this is going to end well… I am more afraid that someone that is not either of these 2 girls is actually went to get hurt or worse.
I’ve been on a dnd kick the past few months and I really want to make character sheets for these two.
I’m seeing Amber as a Battle Master archetype Fighter, using her superiority die to add extra maneuvers into each turn. She might have even used her Action Surge ability last strip.
But Sal isn’t staying down because she’s a Path of the Berserker Barbarian, and her bonus action Rage is giving her resistance to slashing, piercing, and bludgeoning damage. I think she’s about to go into a Frenzy, allowing her to attack with a bonus action on each turn. But it will leave her with a level of exhaustion when this is over.
I give Sal more credit than that. Path of the Berserker is horribly bad, because exhaustion is a hell to get rid of, and it really hurts.
Then what? Path of the Zealot? She doesn’t have an animal totem, storm powers, or ancestral ghosts helping her. So it’s either Berserker or Zealot.
Refluffed monk of the Open Fist.
Going by what we’ve seen so far, Sal is a brawler who fights while mad and can take a lot of damage and keep going.
That to me is a classic barbarian.
If she’s studied any official fighting style or martial art, it hasn’t shown through yet.
As a monk, i’d expect her to not only dodge more attacks (though getting hit so much could be explained as good rolls or bad stats), but to also throw more attacks considering that monks are the only class written specifically to get to attack with an unarmed strike bonus action without depending on a weapon or fighting style.
*I guess you could argue that any class could attack using unarmed strike as a bonus action, but there’s room to say they can’t, and no other class has it written into its features, that I recall*
Of course, the fight isn’t over, yet.
Maybe she’ll show us the results of her training.
She could always multiclass.
God I am so out of date with DnD I barely understood half of that.
Well kiddos, Amber is now officially at the place where she’s both a danger to herself AND others due to her deteriorating mental health. Time to find her a nice quiet institution that will medicate her heavily.
I’m told medication doesn’t help DID (though it can help comorbid issues). Does it help with anger issues?
From experience, I can tell you it does, with the right amount of counseling as a long-term measure of course, but short term, keeps you sedated, stabilizes your mood and prevents you from hurting people. Even if it makes your ability to think go to pieces.
Meds can help with social anxiety, which likely spikes her adrenaline on the regular, so that might help a little. But meds are typically way more effective when you get talk-therapy, too, especially when there are huge unresolved issues in there! Amber needs talk therapy, including anger management skills for her rage in the short term, and very serious attention to her traumas and sense of self-worth etc in the longer term.
In the short term she needs to be locked away from polite society. No one who stops mid fight and then disassociates from reality like that should be allowed to roam freely, at the very least I would send her back to her mother.
Yeah, Amber has been a danger to herself and others for a long time. But, we really avoid institutionalizing people these days.
They did send her back to her mother for a week or something, didn’t they?
It could be that some intense therapy during that time could’ve helped somebody enough to stay stable-ish, and survive while they continue therapy… except that Amber is also in the presence of her single most potent trigger. Oops.
It’s pretty clear in general that nobody in the cast knows what to do with Amber.
Her mom loves her but probably doesn’t get how bad it is.
Danny has just recently discovered the extent of her problems but, very reasonably, has zero mental health knowledge… and this really isn’t junior-varsity stuff. They need somebody very skilled in dealing with these issues, who actually knows how bad it is in there. So far, that’s nobody.
They also need somebody to lock her behind bars until that skilled person is done with her.
That’s not how therapy works these days.
Then therapy is not what the people around Amber need.
When she’s no longer a danger to the people around her, we can let her play with the others.
You may want to be mindful that many people who read these comments have had serious mental issues themselves, and may interpret your insistence on jailing Amber as a desire to jail them, too.
Yeah, Amber is way too dangerous. Even with Sal throwing the first fight, I could see her getting off way easier because of how nuts Amber is. Assuming the police around that area aren’t racist shits
Amber habitually commits violent crimes. If she doesn’t want to get locked up, all she has to do is stop. If she can’t stop, then I don’t think it’s outlandish to say that she should be separated from the people she harms until such a time as that is no longer the case.
It is if you run around punching people.
@gangler I suppose so. Assaulting people is bad news, after all, as is jumping off of trucks n’stuff; I’m with you that she’s been in the danger-to-self-and-others zone for a long time!
I’m just not so confident that jailing her would turn her into somebody who doesn’t hurt people! Jail isn’t really rehabilitating, you know?
(An inpatient program, followed by a ton of outpatient work, seems like a better bet towards making her safer towards herself and others.)
I don’t even want Amber jailed I just want her to be put into a treatment program that she can’t leave until she’s not going to assault people on a regular basis anymore.
I’ve been institutionalized, and I’m 100% okay with the idea of Amber being either jailed or institutionalized and I was diagnosed with DID along with a host of other isusues. Just for the record. I relate to Amber a LOT here, I also know, the mental hospital was the best decision that was ever made for me. And it has made me into a gainfully employed roughly well balanced individual capable of living by myself.
That’s awesome! I’m really glad the involuntary hospitalization helped you. And, *you* were ultimately the one who used what they gave you, to become that roughly-well-balanced individual capable of living by yourself. Mad props.
Yes, but I wasn’t going to ever get over my issues without that involuntary hospitalization. That’s my point. Amber 100% needs to be locked up before she starts treatment. Because as it currently stands, she’s unable to control herself.
Super glad it ultimately worked for you! Mine was voluntary outpatient (which probably impacts my experience – my first psychiatrist had clearly never worked with an autistic person like me before and that has colored my perception about how they handle conditions your particular doctor doesn’t specialize in a lot,) but a similar thought process about it in hindsight – being at the stage where it was necessary was terrible and I never want to be in that stage again, but that support structure and the tools built there were absolutely what I needed then.
@Maki & @Rengali
Yeah, on further reflection, inpatient (even if it’s involuntary) followed by lots of outpatient seems like the best bet, here.
It’s just, nobody on cast knows this.
It’s a problem.
Shame of none of the cast having any psychological experience except maybe Mike (who uses it as a weapon) and Sal (who doesn’t know enough about Amber or AG to realize the problems and was so badly burned on her own experience she may well NOT recommend it to her worst enemy.) Both Danny and Walky especially seem to buy into the myth that as a romantic partner you should be able to shoulder your partner’s mental health burdens… which is the last thing Amber needs right now even if they did get the depth of the issue. (And no one else does.)
Gonna point out – an inpatient ward would ban anything that could be conceivably used to hurt yourself or others* (at least without supervision – in the day program we were allowed coloring implements,) and Amber once separated from her primary triggers and under supervision would be way less of a threat to herself and others. I guarantee you psychiatric hospitals can handle someone with Amber’s skills and issues in the ‘keep everyone safe’ sense. There is a way out that gets Amber rapid professional help and doesn’t put her literally behind bars from everyone else. (She probably would be arrested if police get involved, but that would be a way more permanent writeout and I don’t think her story’s done yet.)
* Reason I went into outpatient rather than in literally came down to the fact that inpatient doesn’t allow charger cords.
There is involuntary short-term psychiatric hospitalization still, but far as I know offhand even dedicated psychiatric hospitals tend to have trouble with this sort of thing and it tends to be more used for things like Ruth’s situation. And I’m pretty sure you still have to run the stay through health insurance.
Basically even if Amber were hospitalized after campus security or the police intervene and no further legal action were taken (an unrealistic situation to begin with,) getting her a therapist who would know how to deal with her unique cocktail of issues is a crapshoot. I’m thinking our best case scenario here is one of them moving buildings on an even faster timeframe than Billie (and even that will have issues given their shared friend circles,) Sal maybe finding an on-campus support group or two of some kind and Amber finding something online because you can’t count on an informed community on campus with her (likely) diagnoses. And that’s still not a perfect solution, just the ‘doesn’t write one or the other out of the strip entirely which I don’t find likely’ one.
I also think Amber is probably on the list of people who could benefit from antidepressants* and Sal is definitely on the list of people who would benefit from good talk therapy and developing better solutions for general anger, but I don’t think either of them would be receptive to things at first and in this sort of situation making them probably won’t go over well either.
* Below Billie, who is ‘someone please get her significant help NOW’, roughly on par with Walky who may well need disruption of his brain’s anxiety patterns but could possibly do so successfully with other options maybe, and above Sarah who I don’t think is clinically depressed but would probably benefit from the Counseling Center or something.
The only way this gets any worse is if they keep going through out the campus and leave mass chaos in their wake. Like in the same fashion of Peter vs the giant Chicken.
Well since Sal and Amber have both shown in the past to be basically superhuman and the use of 60s Batman noises when they hit each other its fair to say that these two fighting each other, and the ramifications, aren’t to be taken as seriously as other characters, like Ruth and Billie for example, so yeah watching Sal and Amber tear through the college like Pete and Giant Chicken would be a blast
You know, a lot of people seem to look at this as Sal trying to kill Amber (or that others like the police will see it that way).
It could be that Sal is trying to end the fight by knocking out Amber.
Less than a minute and she’s out cold/fight’s done.
That would be the best course because Amber has COMPLETELY lost it. Although she seems to be really happy she managed to beat Sal in the first place. The two REALLY need to be given an ultimatum, however – Either go to therapy, or be kicked out of school and arrested
I don’t know much about fighting, but I THINK knocking someone out by choking them is really risky/dangerous
Knocking someone out in any way is very risky and dangerous. You’re always going to risk brain damage when you try to make someone lose consciousness via physical trauma.
It is, but in some cases (and entirely possibly in this case), it might be less risky/dangerous than letting the fight continue. In my self-defense classes, we learned how to do a very similar move to what Sal’s doing here. Of course, the idea was “knock them out then run like hell while they’re regaining consciousness” not “subdue a deranged vigilante who’s cackling about having defeated you”, but I imagine the principle’s the same.
The fight was over Amber had stopped fighting once Sal was on the ground. Sal chose to start round two
Sal has already been on the ground at least once before during this fight and it continued (with Amber throwing the next punch at that). The fight wasn’t over then and it wasn’t over this time either. Amber just got caught up in her apparent superior fighting ability/underestimated Sal’s resilience.
This seemed a bit more definitive than that, where Sal was knocked down and already getting up when Amber kept coming at her. There was no pause in the action.
But that’s not the real point: This time Amber didn’t follow up. She didn’t keep beating on the downed opponent, like she did with Blaine and apparently with Ryan. She stopped.
Which was an opportunity to deescalate. One Sal didn’t take.
That’s my point.
Sal didn’t view the fight as over, she viewed it as ongoing, so from her perspective, there was no opportunity to calm things down.
Instead, it was an opportunity to take control of the still ongoing fight.
Who, in the middle of a fight and is ready to keep going, deescalates after just getting hit?
Why would Sal even think to do so?
For that matter, why would it be Sal’s responsibility alone to do so?
Amber didn’t deescalate.
Even if we say the fight was over and Sal was down for several seconds, so Amber didn’t throw another punch, gloating and/or celebrating how you just beat the other person up is not deescalating.
This ain’t a video game, the fight isn’t over just because one participant goes horizontal for three seconds. I don’t know how many fights you’ve been in, but in my experience, they don’t end until someone intervenes, or until one of the participants can’t fight anymore, whether that involves being knocked out, winded, or running away.
So Amber shouldn’t have stopped? She should have taken advantage of Sal’s momentary disadvantage and stomped on her head or something?
Note that it wasn’t just “goes horizontal”. Both of them had been down on the ground before in the fight. Amber after the first blow and Sal a page or so later. This time Sal took a brutal pounding on that last page before going down. 4 good hard hits, including a kick to the jaw, with no chance to try to strike back or even get a hand up to block.
When did I say Amber shouldn’t have stopped? Don’t put words in my mouth and argue against something stupid that I never said. I don’t even know how you got there in the first place.
What I actually said is, the fights I’ve experienced didn’t end until someone actually ended them, one way or another. Obviously, Sal can keep fighting, because she just a moment ago caught Amber off-guard. That means Amber didn’t end the fight with those hits, and nobody else is stopping either of them, so it’s obviously not over yet.
That is not the way fights work. Just because one person thinks they won and stops doesn’t mean the fight’s actually over. It’s not over until someone either can’t fight anymore from exhaustion, someone runs away, or someone gives up (or, worst case scenario, too injured or too dead to fight). None of these is the case and this is why it’s never a good idea to assume your opponent’s done.
No, but it can provide a chance to step back and try to deescalate.
Even just by not following up and attacking Sal while she was down, Amber was taking a small step in that direction.
Well, she’s probably not going anywhere while she’s exhausted and in a strangle hold, so who knows?
Well, I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see her break the hold and get back in the fight.
No more so than Sal coming back from last strip’s beating.
True. I guess I just want this fight to be over.
I hope Sal doesn’t take Ethan hostage again and shoot Amber with a conveniently hidden gun.
While I know Willis has this comic planned out and such well in advance–
*peers to the buffer watch window*
Almost ’til Valentine’s Day, it seems, but, well, the poll section to the right hasn’t been updated in a bit, so, I suggest a poll on who the readers would pick as the combatant who wins the fight.
And, by that I mean the old fashioned way-
winner based on taking no moral high ground, or who learns what lesson and triumphs over what past demons…
simply who gets the very last punch in and limps away under their own power, as opposed to who gets knocked the f@<# out and gets carried off the field.
Place your bets!
Amber.
Neither.
I don’t care, I just want to get on with the plot now.
Joyce.
Out of all things in this strip, the best is the ironic double meaning of the last line. I love it!
After looking up Komm Süsser Tod, I think I’ll stick to the fight music from Star Trek’s “Amok Time”.
Ethan please intervene!!
Having had a while to sit with this fight, I am just tired. Choking is dangerous. So is knocking someone down the stairs. This whole thing is dangerous and unnecessary and going nowhere good fast.
Amber, your winning here isn’t going to make any of the changes you think it will. All it will mean will be that you beat up someone you stalked, harassed, and in the distant past partially crippled while they were already in police custody. There is no gain in beating Sal except maybe silencing Blaine’s voice saying you couldn’t, and even that’s no gain, because you’re buying into his bullshit that that’s what’s important and gives you worth. But there’s a lot to be lost (and that already has been).
Sal, Amber was done, and there is no gain in continuing this fight except for your own pride and/or stubbornness and unwillingness to say die. Well, that and the anger I’m sure you’re feeling from being kicked in the chest and down the stairs and while you were down. But honestly, this is not a fight that should be picked back up and continued.
This is what I am reduced to, talking at fictional characters like they are real. The sheer discomfort this whole section of the storyline is causing is nearly overwhelming, and maybe it should be, because this isn’t a typical superheroes comic book showdown, it’s two people who’ve been dealt bad hands kicking the shit out of each other because they have poor coping mechanisms and haven’t learned important life skills like deescalation.
And I’m still left thinking that if someone called/calls the cops, even with Amber having stabbed a dude the overall community is going to be more likely to support over her, Sal’s still going to be the one disproportionately facing consequences because she has a record, because the justice system comes down on black people harder, and because it doesn’t always matter who started it or what actually happened so long as you have someone to blame. So even though I don’t think they’re going to get expelled due to storytelling reasons and we have the reassurance from Willis that no one is going to die (and thus Sal is probably not going to be shot), even the possibility is pressing hard at that feeling of doom and discomfort.
Give me lizards, please. Give me teleporting Joyce and Sarah as the first person to notice it. Give me shenanigans and hijinks and kids being silly. And if you can’t quite give me that, give me Ethan and Danny realizing that Amber and Sal are closer to the ground, that this is a relative lull in the fighting and they are less likely to catch a fist or an elbow to the face, and have them sit on their friends like panicking teens who also don’t know how to properly break up a fight or deescalate, but will do their best, and let that stop this fight if Sal and Amber are determined to see this to the bitter end.
But really: please give me lizards.
Choking might be the safest thing in this case. Amber disassociated right in the middle of a fight, she is FAR gone. Choking can knock her out. It may cause some brain damage but that’s far better than a completely irrational, erratic parkour expert with martial arts training and street fighting experience being allowed to run around. Get her knocked out as fast as possible, apply restraints around her wrists and ankles, call the police, and watch her carefully til they come in case she’s also a master escape artists
Where do you think she’s disassociated exactly? She’s been no more irrational than Sal. Which is to say angry and stupid, nothing more.
Yet so many people are acting like she’s about to go on a killing spree and it’s really gross
I think they’re both running on trauma instincts in general and those trauma instincts also happen to be across the board terrible, but that last ‘I did it’ while she’s taking a beating isn’t a good sign of her sense of reality. (Sal’s not acting well here either, but that would be specifically where I think Amber might be in a disconnect – not of the AG variety but of the ‘not quite in what’s going on right now’ kind from shock, the way the first stabbing appeared to have been on rage impulse with no thought. That said, I didn’t first read that as dissociating.)
I’m not even going to touch on the rest of that, but I do want to say: there have been numerous cases where choking someone has done damage to the windpipe, leading to death, not “a little brain damage” (which isn’t okay, either! Zero brain damage is the only acceptable amount here!). Unless you’re careful to cut off blood-flow and only compress the right place, yes, there is an unacceptably high risk of killing the person, which you’re more likely to get with amateurs without official training, like we have here. Even if it’s accidental, it would still be homicide, just like if Sal had broken her neck on the way down the stairs.
When the other person in a fight is putting you at an “unacceptably high risk” of death, it’s not unacceptable to do the same back.
Choking might be how Marcie lost her voice. Can definitely cause permanent damage.
I’m pretty sure her throat was cut. But that would make for an interesting parallel.
Sal isn’t choking her the “safest” way. The way that she’s holding Amber isn’t very secure and I believe that Amber should be able to get out of it. The correct way to do this would be to have Sal having one hand against Amber’s head (so she’d have to twist in the direction of the elbow to break free.) After 10 seconds she’d be unconscious, after 45 she’d be dead.
I can’t remember the specific problem with this chokehold other than it’s much easier to break out of. I also think it’s more likely to damage the windpipe, but again I can’t remember.
I’m trying to remember what my FIL told me about this stuff since he trains MMA and self defense for a living.
Yeah this is stressful and I’m having trouble seeing how it can end without serious consequences (particularly and most likely for Sal, but again – if it comes out Amber is AG, she is SCREWED and the bystander boys might be desperate enough to say it to the police even if Sal isn’t,) and even if it does the old status quo is so untenable.
I’m glad it didn’t boil any longer, but that’s like saying ‘I’m glad I was just scalded by a face full of steam instead of the pipe exploding and me getting hit with shrapnel too.’ There is nothing good that comes of them fighting, especially not like this. (And the Komm Susser Tod remarks in the alt text and on Twitter? Officially Not Helping.)
That is a very apt metaphor.
@Nym: You have requested lizards.
https://i.imgur.com/0APYRh2.gifv
https://i.imgur.com/8bGeYQq.mp4
https://twitter.com/gekikawa_wa/status/1045210655295397888
(sorry Willis for this going into the moderation queue for multiple links. They’re wholesome, I promise)
I don’t know if you’ll see this, but thank you!
Amber, you made a rookie mistake.
Also, Ethan… GET IT TOGETHER MAN! YOU ARE LOOKING SPINELESS IN FRONT OF THE CINNAMON BUN HIPSTER!
What if all the plans you made…
Were not worth the price they paid?
Even with the lives you stole…
Still no closer to your goooal…
Yeah, I think that Ethan has a point. I suspect that, if they’re not broken up, either Sal or Amber will end up dead. That’s how much suppressed rage there is in them that’s suddenly broken loose.
217th late to the party. Rats. Just wish to say, im glad that Sal is still kicking, sad that they are still fighting, thankful for the comic, and Dave for creating it.
I feel like a more accurate quote for these two is: “You can’t just banish anger. It doesn’t ever really go away. It demands an outlet, and then it destroys you.”
It’s like their anger is a pet wolf, begging to be let out to hunt, slowly growing bigger until it’s big enough to devour them.
And a second, unrelated point: I think that, even disregarding Blaine’s impact, Amber might have gotten a lasting feeling of shame and inadequacy from freezing up as her best friend was taken hostage, and alongside her struggles with anger I think she’s been struggling against her fear that, when the opponent is powerful and she has no mask, she’ll find she’s still the scared kid who just watches as someone hurts her friends, or hurts her.
I think, just in actively fighting Sal as Amber, she’s found that in a bad situation (e.g., Sal angrily confronts her over all her misdeeds) she doesn’t turn back into the little kid frozen in terror. I think that’s what she means by “I did it”. And, in isolation, I feel happy for that change; I struggle a lot with freezing up in bad situations, so I can really empathize with the kind of fear she’s shown when not in her mask.
Of course, while she didn’t freeze up, it seems she’s only accomplished that … by becoming someone who needs to hurt other people? By treating Sal as a ghost of the past, rather than a real person, in order to justify hurting Sal? By feeding her anger until it’s big and wild and vicious enough that she can ride it into any bad situation that comes along?
Huh. The two points were related after all.
She didn’t freeze in terror, but she also didn’t lose control to her anger. Like she did when she originally stabbed Sal. Like she did with Blaine and with Ryan.
She was angry, but not in a blind rage. She fought methodically and “won”, then stopped.
That’s far better than I expected. That’s her victory here, as long as she doesn’t lose it now that Sal’s got her on the ropes.
I hope you’re right, but I’m worried Amber feels like the physical victory and metaphorical victory need to go hand in hand and so not actually ‘winning’ when she thought she did might demoralize her. Or make her even more vicious. I don’t think it’s going to get anywhere near as bad as some people think and have them committing murder or hospitalizing, but that is a thing that concerns me.
Amber is absolutely losing her mind, and people in the comments are trying to give it a positive spin, she is not even helping anyone this time, this is just another of her psychotic episodes; when her stable personalñity in the superhero …you know how far gone she is
I am supper sad they escalated it like this. But i felt like amber was a ticking time bomb
Again: AG was the stalker and has tried to find people to beat up for the sake of getting to enact thinly-justified violence before. (There was a section back before the rally, right after the Danny breakup I believe, and the clear implications she seeded dummy addresses the way she did to have an excuse to fight Ryan’s minions anyway.)
I’m not convinced Amber is experiencing the kind of break from reality a psychotic episode entails. (Still in the DSM-5, but with a much stricter definition than common parlance.) She and Sal are both having episodes and both coping with the trauma terribly, and Amber is more at the point of ‘no longer safe not to intervene’ than Sal, but this fight is both of their terrible idea and they are both incredibly dangerous to the other and anyone else around. Both are behaving irrationally. (Trauma does that.) Both need serious help immediately.
I’m pretty sure the point of the dummy adresses was to direct the rape fans away from their victims.
Yes. And the only reason the fight was needed then was that she couldn’t become AG soon enough to let Sal know those addresses were dummy ones and there was no need to fight them.
Doesn’t seem like she was looking for an excuse to fight.
Most of everyone else in the comments seems to be saying the same thing. I don’t know why everyone else thinks some sort of controversial opinion that everybody would disagree with you on when actuality your just favouring one of the two.
Hell I didn’t want to take up a side but here I am taking up for Amber despite saying that I think she did have a helping hand in making this work but it’s not solely on her. The comment section is 50% neutral and 50% pro Sal mainly because she’s the favourite( it’s a Brash assumption out of left field and maybe a bit of projection because I’m struggling to put my bias out of the way because I know Sal still had a slight rougher deal from her encounters with Amber but I still feel like that’s a reason). Even though I know she has understandable reasons, I don’t feel like that makes her blame less.
*making this worse
No, it isn’t. THEY BOTH CHOSE TO FIGHT.
They are both making the exact same mistake and exhibiting the exact same behavior, jfc
I’ll agree that they both chose to fight, but I wouldn’t call it the same mistake. Sal made the mistake of being provoked even thought she knows that it won’t end well and it will further damage her attempt to become better. Amber though, she fell right back into the “Sal is the monster that must be defeated” narrative that we thought she had gotten over by now.
Sal took two steps backwards while Amber backslid back into where she started. It’s not that Amber is a worse person or more violent, but that she went further backwards in a single bad decision
Amber is absolutely a worse and more violent person.
Sal almost killed Ethan while Amber manages to avoid hurting innocent people despite having anger issues so severe that she needed a second personality to process them.
Amber repeatedly stabbed a dude. I don’t blame her since he was a piece of shit rapist but it was far beyond the amount of violence actually required by the situation. Amazi-girl constantly tries to pick fights with people over non-violent crimes or in Sal’s case just for having the audacity to exist. Amber flipped a table while screaming at Ethan because he made a personal choice about his love life she didn’t agree with. Amber constantly falls back on rage and violence when she’s in conflict situations.
The people she picks fights with are free to walk away and have. mutually agreed violence is not only justifiable, but has several,sports centered around it. She was mad at Ethan because she spent the whole summer holding his hand and fighting with his mom, only for him to throw away the progress made.
Yeah you’re not fucking listening and also straight folks don’t get to physically intimidate gay people for not expressing their identity the way they think they should.
I don’t think that’s a fair way to put it.
Just because they’re free to walk away doesn’t excuse Amber from doing so in the first place? Yeah, they’re both culpable for their actions once the fighting actually starts, but completely excusing any and all wrongs that Amber does to other people as being part of her mental illness and putting the fault squarely on other people is completely ass-backwards. Amber can, in fact, be wrong.
Also, Amber doesn’t get to decide Ethan’s progress. Coming out and accepting being gay is an incredibly hard and arduous progress that doesn’t come automatically. If Ethan, for any reason, decides that it’s better for him to go back into the closet, that is not something Amber gets to have a say in because it comes down to what is safer and more comfortable to Ethan.
Amber can feel upset about it, or be worried that Ethan’s just engaging in unhealthy behaviors, (which a Jewish guy dating a Christian girl accompanying her to church and going along with her plan of converting him straight is incredibly unhealthy), but she doesn’t get to scream at him in public about it. That doesn’t make it any safer for Ethan. That doesn’t make it any more comfortable for Ethan. For sure, she should take Joyce to task for trying to convert a gay man straight, but she does not get to decide that Ethan’s throwing away his progress because he decided it’s safer to be in the closet. It can be incredibly dangerous to be out, especially when you are financially dependent upon your parents who clearly do not approve. We saw a great example of what can happen with that with Ross and Becky.
You know what, your right about Ethan. Regarding Amber getting into fights, I should explain where I’m coming from. My moral compass is largely based around consent. If two people agree they want to fight, I think they should be allowed to fight.
Ryan proves my point. She managed to take the darkest, ugliest part of herself, and use it for good. She could have gone softer on him but he would be back a lot sooner if she had.
Somebody’s got to break up this fight before Sal and Amber strangle themselves to death.
Honestly, I expected Amber to be the one to choke.
Play your ukulele, Danny. Music has charms to soothe the savage breast(s).
God, that’s stupid enough to have a potential to work.
Sal and Amber, simultaneously: “YOU MADE ME!”
Danny: “All i’m saying is give peace a chaaaance.”
Sal and Amber, simultaneously: “…he’s with you? ….yeah, kinda.”
Danny: “Now hug?”
Given how well Danny tends to read situations he’ll probably start playing the Mortal Kombat theme.
The savage… bReasts?
That is correct as quoted. The Victorians removed the R because, OMG, no one should use a word that is a body part more identifyable than “bum”.
All this is playing out and I’m wondering if campus police is being called in or if student news will get a hold of this story.
Well, the campus doesn’t seem to have security, unless you count the masked vigilante with DID, and the biker vigilante who only vigilantes part time.
Fight lesson number 2, kids: if you’ve got to the point where you’re actually IN a fight, don’t stop hitting while your opponent can still move. If you think the fight shouldn’t lead to your opponent not being able to move, you shouldn’t be in that fight in the first place.
Also, WILL SOMEONE JUST FIREHOSE THESE TWO ALREADY?
For all of Ethan’s size, he’s not a fighter. It’s taken him this long to step in?
I think that his saving grace is I think that both Sal and Amber would both rather die than harm an innocent.
I mean, not that any of this was good before but now that we’re in strangulation territory it’s really, really bad.
Ethan and/or anyone, intervene please.
Is that gloating that Amber is doing?
Gloating is for bad guys, time for introspection!
No, it isn’t. It’s incipient hysteria at seeing the Devil of her delusional personal mythology beaten at her hand. In fact, I’m not sure she’s entirely conscious of what is going on around her at any point in this strip.
No. It’s personal triumph over facing Sal and winning without either letting Amazi-Girl handle it or losing control to rage.
Blaine shakes his head “Really? The premature villain gloat? I’m a failure as a parent.”
I can’t say about Loki, who in that universe seems pretty awesome, but Blaine genuinely is.
Man, I hope Sal just holds Amber there until she chills out. It would be fantastic if Amber would just stop attacking people, as well.
I’m going out on a limb to suggest that Amber may do just that. Even let Sal choke her. She’s proven what she needed to prove to herself. She’s done now.
Mind you, I think it’s a pretty small chance. More likely she’ll fight back, break the hold and hopefully Ethan and Danny can intervene.
Amber thought she ended the fight (for what reason I don’t know what) but Sal went right back to fighting. Amber has caused some confrontation between the two in the past but this time around is different. Sal’s the one who went looking for Ethan found and found Amber and then they both got hostile and Sal was the one who called her out to a fight which Amber didn’t hastite to agree. Now even though Amber seemed to cooling down Sal might still choke her out anyway even though they could have stopped there.
You can say that Amber made this conflict worse with paste actions but that’s they case one could also hold Sal accountable for starting this mess and making it worse right now. You can hold them in a different light about one being more dangerous than the other but it’s all still arguable not factual.
Looking for a solution that doesn’t end in both of them being expelled. Time for the fight to stop and Ethan is the best hope for that. If this is on camera, then they both are expelled, edpyafter Amber’s other activities come out.
But I love the structure. The three witnesses are perfect. Ethan who was Sal’s victim but has forgiven her and is radically non-violent, but is Amber ‘s oldest friend. Danny who is friends with Sal and former lover of AG. And Dorothy who was saved by Amber but is again watching her violence from behind glass and from a safe distance. Much different from the fight in the parking lot.
I just really appreciate the line “Shut up, you are so weird” from a narrative perspective. Like, it feels like something a person would really say in response to a situation like this. I dunno, I’m just really pleased with this writing.
I love it too! Yesterday I found myself thinking “Amber, please shut up” when I first read the strip so to see a similar sentiment expressed in-universe today was very amusing to me.
Without audience omniscience it’s exactly how Amber comes off: a really fucking weird nerd who’s way too into superhero shit.
Yeah, but Sal obviously didn’t pay attention to hearing Amber’s explanation of how her father is an asshole that beat down her mom. These two are only hearing what they want to hear and not putting themselves in the place of the other.
That doesn’t really have much to do with Amber crowing about how she’d finally beat Sal and Amber defeated her. To us, we know she means she thinks she won fairly and without AG, but to Sal it sounds like incoherent rambling.
I get the feeling you don’t like superheros in general.
I actually do enjoy them in settings where I’m able to suspend my disbelief about them and the real life implications of them but yeah in a realistic setting self-appointed cops hiding behind anonymity to play judge, jury, and executioner without consequence can fuck off and go to prison. Amazigirl has more in common with George Zimmerman than she does any incarnation of Batman I actually like.
Me too. It does separate AG + Amber. I don’t think anyone’s everyone AG to shut up.
(Stop ‘heroing’ maybe, but not, during battle, to can it.)
Hey, anybody remember when Sal was kicking back with Marcie, and Amber was reading superhero slash fics? I miss that.
Same.
I just heard something about this forum’s set up and want to test it. bongo
Yay, it works!
this is no longer fun :c
At least we have bongo.
So what does she think? The fight isn’t over until somebody dies?
That’s how it works in the UAA.
‘Til they’re too exhausted, too injured, too dead, runs, or gives up most likely.
Maybe it has been already adressed, but regarding the Alt-Text the proper spelling would be “Komm, süßer Tod”.
For some reason this reminds me of in Happy Gilmore when Bob Barker beats the shit out of Happy.
Weird, because I feel like looking back on this it got me thinking of the street fight in the movie “They live” between Roddy Piper and Keith David. No similarities between the two fights but for some reason it got me thinking about it like it’s the same level of intensity.
MAYBE SHE HAS A FUCKING MENTAL ILLNESS, SAL
And Sal’s supposed to divine this information from the cosmos?
No, you have a point.
This is the ultimate showdown of ultimate destiny
Sal, Amber, and Drama as far as the eye can see
And only one will survive I wonder who it will be
This is the ultimate showdown of ultimate destiny
Amber doesn’t know how to break a chokehold? Not credible.