“Violence is never the answer”? Bollocks to that, Violence is the answer to the question “What does Ross deserve right now for attempting to fucking kidnap his own daughter?”
Also, Ross, God has apparently given you the strength to get knocked the fuck out by sweet little Joycy. And it couldn’t have happened to a nicer guy. 😀
Violence is always the answer.
It’s the best answer.
Want to remove a long lasting problem without lingering consequences? Violence!
Violence until the consequences are over!
Violence is wrong if there are other options. Unfortunately, there are always variables and not all of them allow us the time to explore other options. In this case, the main variable is Ross being unwilling to listen to anything except the dogmatic memories of his traditions, as well as showing that he’s willing to take extreme measures to enforce them.
The funny thing is very few people I’ve run into can adaquetely define what violence is. But most are willing to impose very absolutist ‘answers’ and restriction on how you respond to a situation.
I define violence as any application of force that comes with an inherent risk of harm. (not a quote. My own musings). Hence violence extends to emotional, physical, and even finanical actions.
An extention of this is that it’s not about ‘avoiding violence’, its about first deciding when it is ok to apply force, and also minimising harm. This means first being philosophically aware of your values, and then looking at the outcomes rather than the first immediate action (however good it may feel)
This is why Sal is right. Amazi-Girl is fun, but she is not a harm minimiser. She makes things likely to end badly. And also, why a strong violent first response can sometimes result in less harm than a drawn out less strong response.
The rush of being rebuked by a girl, for another girl, chased by two girls while being reported on by the first girl, kicked by a one of the two girls, who was rescued by a girl, accompanied by yet another girl, who was trying to save the first girl, then finally being punched by the girl who came with the girl who rescued one of the two girls who was racing after the first girl.
Well, spoilers here (well wild guesses anyhow), but Joyce hit him so hard, she killed her own trauma and fear regarding strangers and date rape and such. 😉
Oh, also, Joyce seems to be channeling It’sWalky Joyce lately, counterbalancing the bike during that catch, and now Falcon Punch? Inner Badass, unleashed!
Hey, I know what I’m talking about. The Shoryuken was taught to Heihachi Mishima by the Lin Kuei master Captain Falcon. It’s the ultimate technique in Shaq Fu.
After Mishima defeated the Skullgirl, he was declared King of Fighters, and founded the Novus Orbis Librarium to defend Urth from the vampire (and two time Dead or Alive Beach Volleyball champion) Demitri Maximoff.
You forgot the part where Mishima was a Street Fighter, after training with the Virtua Fighter helmet given to him by the Super Smash Bros. Heihachi got one helluva Killer Instict when he had mastered the shoryuken because he began engaging in Motal Kombat. He later would meet his end by an unforseen Divekick. It did a million damage, and he had 100 health.
The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.
One problem is that you have to miss the ground accidentally. It’s no good deliberately intending to miss the ground because you won’t. You have to have you attention suddenly distracted by something else when you’re halfway there, so that you are no longer thinking about falling, or about the ground, or about how much it’s going to hurt if you fail to miss it.
For instance, you might think instead about your face connecting with a strong right hook.
It’s a common trope in movies and tv series that people who have never thrown a punch before will be able to do it really well when it actually matters.
Water is incompressible when it come to high speed impacts. It’s like diving off the golden gate bridge or getting towel snapped at the pool. Wet towels hurt more for a reason.
Not likely. Toedad’s a conservative “Christian” (I use that term EXTREMELY loosely, based on experience), and still thinks he’s in the right. He sees Joyce, Becky, and their gender as inferior, and even if Joyce was somehow able to put the fear of God into him, he’d still maintain that he was acting in his family’s best interests.
You know, I get tired of this. It’s the No True Scotsman fallacy. A Christian did something bad, so they aren’t a Christian. Bullshit. They are a Christian, they have been up to that point. They don’t magically stop being.
Most Christians might not act like that, but they are Christians. Christians have done FAR worse. Someone pointed out recently that Militant Islam very much resembles much of earlier Christianity. Nothing ISIS has done has not been done by Christians, and worse. Are you to say that those people were not Christians?
Within just about any group of people there are good and bad people. The percentages may be higher in some groups, but I find that whole Christians are always good a bunch of crap.
We had someone assassinated in my city, in a church by a Christian, for religious reasons. Much like Toedad here, and because of that, I’m not going to let someone claim even a stretch to call them Christian. If I look at the actions of Jesus in the bible, I’d have to start eliminating whole swaths of the Christians. You might as well compare Communists (Leninists, Stalinists, and Maoists for example) to Marx’s book. They hold up about as well.
“Nothing ISIS has done has not been done by Christians, and worse. Are you to say that those people were not Christians?”
No, they were not, and ISIS were never Muslim.
Saying there’s something “magical” about that, is like saying that a person that removes all its clothes somehow magically stops being clothed.
It’s not magic, it’s removing the defining characteristics.
“Saying there’s something “magical” about that, is like saying that a person that removes all its clothes somehow magically stops being clothed.
It’s not magic, it’s removing the defining characteristics.”
The No True Scotsman is a fallacy ONLY when offered without proof. To use a less controversial example, I can declare that “A Christian believes Jesus is God’s son.” Well, as the Arian heresy demonstrates pretty clearly, there are some people who can call themselves Christian but believe things that are totally different.
It is therefore NOT a No True Scotsman to declare that “Christians” who don’t believe a minimum defined set of beliefs are not, in fact, True Christians.
In addition, the No True Scotsman only applies to practical examples. If I say that “No Christian should ignore the poor,” and you say “I saw a Christian ignoring the poor just the other day,” it is NOT fallacious to say “He should not have ignored the poor,” even though that’s exactly the same thing as saying “No TRUE Christian should ignore the poor.” The argument was made as an ideal to hold people to, and nobody knows better than Christians how easy it is to forget the more inconvenient teachings and beliefs like “Sell everything and help those in need” or “Love thy neighbor as thyself.” We get it. We’re flawed. Not every Christian is going to be able to do what is right all the time. However, we SHOULD be trying to help the poor, and we SHOULD be kind and understanding to others, and it’s definitely not a fallacy to say that we and those like us *ought* to do it in response to the accusation that we *haven’t been* doing it.
Look. Christianity is not a well-defined category. It isn’t even defined with a gray border-area, the way “clothed” versus “unclothed” might be.
Instead, it’s overly-defined. There’s thousands of DIFFERENT definitions floating around out there, distinct from and mutually-exclusive with each other in a bunch of subtly different ways, and no one definition is universally accepted as the “correct” one. For nearly every doctrinal or behavioral standard you might wish to apply, there’s going to be at least an entire denomination of identifying Christians that fall outside of that.
The No True Scotsman thing also isn’t a fallacy when applied to matters of (arguable) definition. There’s a reason you see it cited as “No True Scotsman puts sugar on porridge” and not “No True Scotsman lacks both Scottish ancestry and British citizenship”.
For a religion, it’s not inherrently fallacious to assert that some doctrinal matter is part of the definition, and therefore that people who claim to be Christians without meeting that definition are heretics.
I have to disagree the first three crusades for instance were defensive wars, actually studied the subject. People do horriable/evil things and think they are justified because of ideology/belief
I’m increasingly wondering if Willis has tired of ‘everyday college life’ and has decided to turn this into the ‘How the Gang Got Together’ story of the Justice League Bloomington!
None are needed. This is the guy that pulled a gun out on her and kidnapped her best friend for something she’s come to realize isn’t evil, and that the only evil that exists in regards to it is the people who use God as an excuse to be abusive and violent.
She’s probably also going to take out some of that anger she has towards Ryan on him as well, but Ross has literally done nothing but make himself worthy of being that punching bag.
Still too bad that he’s not a toe-shaped splatter underneath a semi’s tire, but this is quite cathartic.
Are you kidding? Slice of life comics always go like that! First, a character shows up on campus and turns out to be a lesbian. Then, the character comes out of the closet so hard she nukes it from orbit. Then she gets a girlfriend. The her dad shows up with a gun and kidnaps her. Then the lesbian’s friend completes their own transition to BADASS. Then she’s partially saved by a superhero, then the superhero is saved by the superhero’s arch-nemesis, then the lesbian’s friend punches the lesbian’s dad. SOOOO cliche. (Seriously, though – Willis is great at writing plots!)
A lot of people have made comments about his knees being broken or otherwise mangled, but to be honest I don`t think we have enough evidence to say how damaged they were.
Everything seems to be based on the strip which showed some red on his legs and torn pants. But, that could also simply be due to relatively minor scraping. We never saw exactly what happened to his knees, and it looked like he was sitting on the curbside in the last strip; if his knees were broken, I doubt he would have been in that position.
Honestly, though, I just hope that he can feel guilt for his actions, and that he can come to an understanding of why he’s done is wrong, and that one day he apologizes to a tearful Becky in a strip that has ALL the feels, and that they hug, and that all the readers want to cry.
After being a recurring villain for a while, he finally comes around in time to
sacrifice himself to stop a more dangerous villain. He will die in Becky’s arms.
From what we’ve seen of him, I don’t know if Ross can objectively look at his situation. The extreme version of “family values” and concept of absolute patriarchal authority are too deeply ingrained in his idea of what a family should be. He thinks anything less than the ‘perfect’ Leave it to Beaver nuclear family structure is unacceptable, and what doesn’t fit into it must be wrong in some way, because it doesn’t fit.
Through this entire episode he hasn’t acted in the best interest of Becky as a person; he has only worried about losing his “perfect daughter”. He doesn’t understand what Becky is figuring out about herself, and there’s no predefined place in the template for New Becky, therefore “she is corrupt and must be restored to her proper place”. In his eyes this will save the family he’s supposed to have.
Then again who knows, maybe he wasn’t as extreme in the past but doubled down on his ‘ideal family’ notions after his wife died. Or maybe he just really wants grandchildren.
“He thinks anything less than the ‘perfect’ Leave it to Beaver nuclear family structure is unacceptable, and what doesn’t fit into it must be wrong in some way, because it doesn’t fit.”
This so true! Sometimes I wonder if sit-coms have actually done much more harm to families than any fundamentalist version of religion have ever done.
My own parents, while they have learned and changed a lot after I grew up, were VERY much into this perfect nuclear sit-com family equals normal/standard/right, and anything that derivated too much from that was bad/dangerous/crazy. And they were strict atheists! They tolerated me having friends that didn’t fit that standard, and they had their own friends like that, but that again fits with the sit-com standard where there’s always one or two “wacky” friends, or neighbours, that the core family can laugh at but not BE themselves.
Fortunately, one of those sit-coms were the Addams Family, so I was allowed a certain amount of freedom, but as I look back at it now, it was definitively a syndicated sit-com-family I grew up with.
I’m not familiar with Lunar naming conventions; I’ve been avoiding fully immersing myself in the Realm in case I get a chance to play someday so I can learn as my character does.
Actually, this reminds me of the time my first wife decked me. One hell of an uppercut that started around her knees, and took me a couple of inches off the ground.
It isn’t always warranted. People can be touchy.
My dad still has a dent in his skull from my mother smacking him in the head with an encyclopedia because she mistakenly thought he wasn’t paying attention while she was talking, and she’s threatened to call the police on me for “assaulting” her for so much as blocking swings or twisting her fingers off of my throat.
…In retrospect, that makes my tastes in women vaguely Oedipal. Ugh.
Short form: argument that turned funny, led to me teasing her in a way to make her mad, followed by my mocking her as a short-arse who didn’t know how to punch.
She didn’t. And still decked me anyway. It was deserved, in my opinion…and was funny as hell to me, despite the sore jaw. I’ve been on the receiving end of female wrath in much more serious circumstances (including a run-in with a bipolar drunk who left me with three fingernail slashes down one cheek — I was the lucky one; she glassed another bloke. Wife of a pub owner in Rathkeale, Ireland, out for an evening’s riot in somebody else’s pub.)
(second hand observation from real-life tm)
Ha, you knew that I was an (select one = idiot-geek-horriblepunster-oblivious-absentminded-nogoodatrememebringdates) and you married me anyways.
Yeah, for serious. Of the three girls Becky’s got for backup here, one of them smashed a glass in the face of the last guy to fuck with her, one of them held up a convenience store with a knife, and the last beat her own father senseless last weekend and stabbed the aforementioned convenience store robber with her own knife.
Don’t fuck with third floor Clark Wing. They will cut you.
And that last one’s father who was beaten senseless was both over five foot two and an actual mob associate. This might be little Rossie’s first time doing anything the police could take him in for on the spot if they saw. I’d both leave that gun where it is and stick to words if I were him.
Looks like she went for the jaw. Good place to hit overall, because I think it’s like…ten pounds of pressure to the jaw will incapacitate a person? Not so good for your own knuckles. This sort of hit would probably not only split her knuckles, but bruise them, especially since she likely hasn’t been trained in that way to toughen them up. Worst case, a boxer’s break or a dislocated knuckle. Either way, she’ll heal up alright, and Toedad will still have been knocked flat on his ass by a five-foot-nothing, Twilight-loving, sweater-wearing, piece of fluff like Joyce.
Which probably goes to show that there is a God in DOA universe.
If you go allllllllllllllll the way back to when it showed Joyce and everyone in their gender studies class (now years ago in our time), we see that Joyce has read/watched/enjoyed Twilight at some point. Leslie was saying something about Twilight actually passed the Bechdel Test and Joyce was being smug. I have seen it touted as an “acceptable” book in the fantasy genre for her flavor of Christian before, because of the whole “Bella and Edward waiting until they’re married, gender roles, etc”.
Hopefully, she grows out of thinking that’s an example of a healthy relationship.
Seriously though, even if she gets a full boxer’s break (which hurts like a mofo), totally worth it.
Can confirm that being the angle it was presented to me by my superconservative family. If Willis ever shows Joyce try to explain that “Twilight is actually secretly about abstinence” angle to her friends the way I did, though, we will have Gravatars for DAYS. xD
I would love to see Joyce’s faces as someone (Dorothy maybe?) explains to her how Twilight is actually about romanticising stalkers and abusive relationships.
Eh. I feel like Dorothy would just be too…delicate. Sarah or Billie, or even Dina, would probably be able to explain it in much clearer terms, because Sarah and Billie would just be legit, “He sneaked into her room and watched her sleep, are you fucking kidding me?” whereas Dina would list off the checklist of an abusive relationship, where Edward pretttty much ticks all the boxes, in a very logical way.
Dorothy is great, but she would try to spare Joyce’s feelings. Sarah and Billie would have no such qualms, both out of fear Joyce would walk right into that sort of relationship and see it as romantic. (That is to say, Billie is a bit self-centered and ridiculous, but if anyone put their hands on Joyce [or any girl] that way, they’d be picking up their teeth after she found out)
Twilight isn’t about abusive relationships. They’re in it, but that’s not what it’s about.
Twilight is about Stephanie Meyer lying to her romantic partner that saving the chat logs from all the Yahoo chat rooms she RPed in was book research in a collaborative writing set up instead of being cybersex and melodramatic online relationships she had when she was 16.
^^^^ That…and Stephanie Meyer displaying her utter lack of understanding of the traditional fictional concept of Vampires. Sparkle in the sunlight…really? I like the alternate ending: Buffy stakes Edward. The end.
You’d be surprised at how durable your thumb really is. Yes, in all likelihood, she has busted it somehow, but I’ve seen people walk away with “mere” heavy bruising and a lot of swelling. And when I say mere, I actually mean “Are you sure it’s not broken?” “X-ray says it isn’t.”
Yeah, I figure the next panel will be Joyce clutching her hand saying, “Goddamn that hurt.” In this universe, she’s not used to punching out people and of course she doesn’t … never mind, the rest of the sentence would be spoiler material.
Ehh, in my experience, once the adrenaline has worn off, stuff like this actually hurts way worse, because you didn’t remember to ice it/take painkillers. Not to mention the pain she’s going to be feeling from the Epic Amazigirl Catch that definitely jolted the bike (which was moving at a very high speed). Joyce is going to be sore everywhere tomorrow morning.
Probably has, people who aren’t trained to fight inevitably bruise or even crack a few bones the first time they actually punch someone. The hand is actually pretty fragile, given its complicated construction and all that.
What I find fascinating is recent studies that seem to show that we evolved the ability to both throw and take punches fairly early, like around a million years or so ago. Other apes can’t even form proper fists, but our hands, while also being way more dexterous than those of other primates, also can form fists and when we hit something (with our wrists straight, so properly), the bones in the back of our hands actually flex slightly, transferring the force of the blow to our arm bones, which of course are much larger and tougher and more able to absorb it.
The really fascinating part is that right around the time we started being able to actually throw punches, our faces also started to become more buttressed and better able to take a hit. And although even the average woman’s face is more reinforced and better able to take a hit than those of even male great apes, human males’ faces are more reinforced than females, and the extra reinforcing is in places in the facial structure that show gender-based morphology.
So we’ve been evolving to throw and (especially guys) take punches for, like, a million years or so. We are way, way, way better at it than other primates, even though they have more muscle strength.
Good things from this: We get to see Toedad hurt, we get to see Joyce punch an asshole, Becky will probably stay, and people will be happy.
BAd things that’ll probably come: Becky’s relationship is probably going to be weird…
Sooooo, amazing first date. Sorry about my dad nearly murdering you in the treeline. Also, my attraction to Joyce may have peaked through the roof after she decked him in front of me. Anyways, you still up for Date Night Number 2?
Her folks find out and try to pull her out of college or threaten to cut off the money if she doesn’t quit because ‘the people there are corrupting her’
They’re only a little sliced up. They bled plenty, but it’s already congealing – the shrapnel still stuck there probably helps stem the flow a little.
There might be worse damage we don’t see, like fractures, but I wouldn’t call them mangled. Though if it were ground up, he wouldn’t be the first terrible dad in webcomics to lose a limb after his own stupidity got it torn to shreds.
Can Becky’s dad be charged with attempted kidnapping/abduction (or… actual, I guess, bc he forced her into the car w/a gun even if they didn’t get too far)? Is she a legal adult? What are her rights, and which of them has he violated? IDK if this has been touched on in previous comments, sorry. & I know this isn’t a super realistic strip that’s going to get bogged down in legal details. But I’m really curious as to what recourse Becky has, especially since she’s probably 18 and thus a legal adult.
She is 18, so yes. Although people will probably answer you here anyway, you might want to ctrl+F kidnapping on the last bunch of strips because people have gone into detail on a lot of ways to interpret it.
she is a legal adult and this is abduction. but even if she were under 18 there are a lot of states that allow teenagers to separate themselves from their family and more out at 16. and theres plenty of precidents for saying a parent can abduct their own child from another parent / guardian. taking her from any current living arrangements could probably bea argued pretty easily. the tricky part is that shes not living at the school / with her friends legally but squatting. the school might make that argument a little more complicated?
even if he didnt get brought up on kidnapping though this is a pretty clear case of abuse and reckless endangerment at the least. like even ignoring all the gun and death threat shit, just this business of leaning out of a car at high speeds on a busy highway ought to be enough to get her out of his custody
Completely relinquishing control of the car on a busy highway to lean out the window with a loaded gun, so apparently with intent to commit murder (especially after that “send them to Hell” comment that 911 would have recorded) is going to get him into a shit-load of trouble right there, even without not only waving around, but actually firing off a rifle on campus. I mean, bad enough when he’s the passenger, but he was the driver.
He out-and-out assaulted Dina; he out-and-out kidnapped a legal adult at gunpoint; he fired a gun in public; he relinquished control of a vehicle to apparently attempt to murder a would-be rescuer–they are going to throw the book at him. I imagine that at this point, they will also hit him with multiple charges of running stop signs, because they will want to hit this asshole with eeeeeverything. And that’s assuming he survives the cops showing up in about three, two, one…
He assaulted not just Dina, but, at minimum, Becky, Joyce, and Amber as well, and if I were charging him, I’d probably throw in Sayid and everyone else at the fountain, too. Might not stick, but it’s worth a shot.
Also battery against Dina. And depending on what happened after we cut away from the woods, there might be other charges. We know from preview panels that she’s not seriously injured, but we still haven’t ruled out her being duct taped in the trunk or in the woods, which would be unlawful restraint and maybe another kidnapping charge.
Bringing the gun onto IU campus is not actually against the law, just IU rules, but might turn his being there into criminal trespass.
And I don’t even know how you’d charge the climbing out the window of a moving vehicle that he was supposed to be driving jackassery, but if I were trying him, I’d be trying to figure out a way to give him the death penalty just for that just on general principles. “Being too stupid to live, seriously, how has this guy not just forgotten to breathe” is not actually a crime, however.
yes….. yes it can. it is sad it can/has to sometimes but it can solve problems. I think it got touched on pretty well in another webcomic i like (perm hiatus sadly) called better days.
As Einstein said, “Violence sometimes may have cleared away obstructions quickly, but it never has proved itself creative.” ToeHole is a serious obstruction, and needs to be cleared fast. Becky has other problems (longer-term housing, food, etc.) and violence won’t solve any of them. Like most issues in the world, those will need creative solutions involving support from the people around her.
(In other words, that’s how a practicing Quaker juggles general pacifism with the obvious YOU GO JOYCE! reaction here.)
“Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor, and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst.”
I need to read that book. The movie’s fun, but doesn’t really go into the meaningful parts.
In a surprise twist of fate, Joyce is the most horribly injured (excluding Toedad) because she doesn’t know how to punch properly and fractured her hand on his jaw. It is her that we follow to the hospital and nobody else.
She does, the biggest and most important motivator that she’s got: She hates the authorities and, no matter how much she despises Amazi-Girl, she despises them more.
Plus, I don’t think Sal is maliciously against her. She thinks she’s dumb, but I doubt she thinks she should be ‘punished’ beyond the direct consequences (injury, seeing she failed).
Amazi-Girl failed? She went over the top but Sal didn’t have any options other than follow and alert police if she wasn’t going to go where Amazi-Girl did…
I don’t think she failed, but I think finding out she fell off, passed out, and left Joyce and Sal (innocent and nemesis) to solve the situation will count as failure to her, and I imagine Sal agrees, if not for the same reasons (based on yesterday).
Nice good punching stance from Joyce there. She’s got her fist with the inside facing up, not toward her as some novices might do. Only mistake is she’s about to fall over for lifting her foot up during the follow through.
Looking at all the comments about how little Joyce has knocked big Ross flying, I’m interpreting this as Ross having some momentum coming for Joyce and she sidestepped as she punched.
Comments flying fast and furious… Gentleman, Ladies, Gender-queer folk, and those who just plain don’t want to conform to society’s norms and expectations (like myself), we may well break the record for most comments on a strip.
I thought Joyce would abuse Ross verbally, not physically. But yes, she brought it up from the ground with plenty of follow through. Ross will be feeling that one for a good while.
And of course, he had to throw in a snide dismissal due to age. Because there is no way in which that turd-blossom isn’t an asshole. Just full on, oh hey there, little girl, you couldn’t possibly understand the super important adult man things I’m doing here, so you just run along now. What. A. Dick.
It heavily reminds me of two different ex friends of mine, although they were less scary because they had no power over anyone but maybe more obnoxious because they were peers.
(one was a ‘you just can’t understand, children’ type and the other a ‘listen to men they’re more logical you should try to be like that’)
Watch now as he flies into utterly impotent rage at the fact that no one is buying into his BS.
And if he tries anything, let’s not forget that Sal is nearby, and could probably have taken ross back before he into a car wreck, then knocked on his ass.
To be fair it kinda IS hard to understand the whole pointing-a-gun-at-my-daughter-but-that-actually-mean-I’m-saving-her-thing. For the uninitiated it just looks like horrible abuse.
…yeah, I meant that to be flippant but I think I just correctly described his world view.
The differences are subtle, admittedly, abuse is something bad that probably foreigny or non-white types do to their children, whereas he was correcting a horrible grievous error in his Godly property and showing how strong and manly he was in the process. You can tell the difference largely due to how white and proper Christian he is and…
Dear Bob, I spent way too many years around that subculture. A bunch of racist “oh those types hitting their wives and children. What? Bill? No, they’re just having problems and you know how much of a handful Clarice is, but they are working it out to save the family with the pastor.”
> abuse is something bad that probably foreigny or non-white types do to their children
> A bunch of racist “oh those types hitting their wives and children
and from this rose the barbaric practices act/[attempted] hotline (it’s a hotline because you can’t call 911 on your neighbour for being Muslim), if you didn’t see all the garbage Canada went through this year (or if you missed that between the rest of the garbage)
Let’s assume that Toedad is around 5’6″, given how he’s been drawing in strips and how he’s been directly compared to Sal’s height. Not a tall man, but still taller than Joyce. Given his body shape, he’s probably got a lot of muscle and a low body fat percentage, which means he’s going to be built like a solid brick made out of smaller bricks. Doing some research, it’s reasonable to hazard a guess that he is somewhere around 160 lbs, probably a bit more. Point, is, he’s not exactly a light dude.
And Joyce punched him with enough force to send him flying.
Goddamn, no wonder Willis put her in the SEMME homage outfit this arc.
My husband, who is around 5’6″ tall, has a very stocky body build with big muscular arms and broad shoulders, and apparently he looked emaciated at the one point that he was around 160 pounds in college. He’s around 245 currently. My husband’s build has more of a stomach than Becky’s Dad (granted, he could stand to lose a few pounds), so I’d really put Becky’s Dad over 200 pounds, probably closer to 220. Becky’s Dad is probably heavier than he looks. Everyone underestimates my husband’s weight when they go by just looking at him.
If he’s much less than 200 lbs, I would be shocked. 160 is nothing for a guy built like that; he’d have to be like four feet nothing. My dog is 100 lbs, and he’s a retriever. There’s gotta be the mass equivalent of at least two retrievers there. Plus he’s only slightly shorter and is wider than my husband, and he’s almost 200 (and military, so not all fat).
To add to the pile, I wrestled in high school (and for those who might’ve caught on somewhere that I’m a chick we didn’t have a chick wrestling team so I was on the guys’ team) and most of our guys were short (5’8″-ish) and we had a lot of dudes in the 152/160 lb weight classes and none of them had Toedad’s build. So more evidence to agree with everyone else who’s said even at 5’6″ Toedad should be at least 200 lbs, if not over.
Shawn L. made a good point in another comment further down the page. What we’re seeing isn’t Toedad flying through the air, but struck hard enough to fall down, seen here from a low, ground level camera angle. It is conceivable that his feet didn’t actually rise into the air until the moment his fact hit the dirt.
That, and Amber/Amazi-girl are capable of a certain malice that Joyce is above. Rightous fury is great, but there’s something even more satisfying about the enjoyment of throwing a punch.
I think both of them (and Ryan) need to be set on fire. Kinda like the “how much does the semi weigh?” “After a certain amount of weight a ton or two more is irrelevant” comments from yesterday (day before?), after a certain level of being a worthless piece of garbage asshole douchebag they are all the same.
Yeah!
Man I missed Joyce who could kick ass.
Just hope you didn’t punch him to his weapon. and I hope Sal is behind you ready to properly shut him down.
Also hope Amazigirl won’t see Sal realize and go rage.
Speaking of, whose weapon is that going to be, legally, when all this is over? I assume the police confiscate it, but after felonies like Ross has been comitting like he’s going for a hat trick, I can’t imagine he’ll get it back. Is there a system in place for the resale of confiscated firearms, or would it just sit in evidence lockup indefinitely? I don’t really see it passing into Becky’s hands; if Ross forfeited it by the severity of his crimes, then it seems it’d be forfeited to the state, not his heir.
The police will sell a lot of things that have been confiscated for criminal reasons when they’re done with them, but I doubt weapons are in there. I don’t know how licensing works in the States (you guys don’t seem to require licenses to possess firearms, just for hunting) but I’d be willing to bet that even if licenses are required, Becky doesn’t have one, so they couldn’t hand it off to her. Plus, Ross is still alive (for now, at least) so she couldn’t claim it as part of his estate, assuming she even for some reason wants to have the gun her Dad tried to kidnap her and threatened to kill her friends with; I wouldn’t.
Pretty sure when the cops are done with weapons that they’ve confiscated for being involved in a crime, they then destroy them. At least, I’m pretty sure they do in Canada.
Pretty sure here in America they stay in evidence forever unless they’re needed for undercover ops, like “I’m not a cop I’m actually a drug dealer/hitman/pimp/whatever, look at my gun!” or “I’m not a cop I’m a black market weapons dealer, see my large array of questionably-acquired merchandise?”
Depends on the state. In AZ it’s illegal to destroy functional, safe firearms. Police must hold or sell them. Most police that I’ve heard on this subject prefer to destroy guns, for safety and avoiding the hassle involved in setting up gun sales. Personally I find it ridiculous not to let the police dispose of fire arms as they wish, especially as guns are very easy to get in this state. Still Toedad’s rifle impacted the ground at speeds so I think it’s nonfunctional
Sorry, but I still call BS. This feels too easy. Joyce isn’t that strong. And although she has learned a lot about the real world and real people in the last few weeks, I can’t help but expect her 18 years of indoctrination to keep her from so abruptly trying to knock out an adult who she’s probably known much of her life, since she and Becky were homeschool buddies as kids.
Joyce doesn’t have to be that strong. The man just survived a car crash without a seatbelt. Flew straight out of the vehicle and skidded across the concrete. It’s a miracle the guy’s even standing. He’s in no shape to be trading blows with anybody.
His leg is wobbling. Honestly, he didn’t need much to topple right back over. And Joyce is pumped on adrenaline and fury, and might be full on in a fight mode of trauma response (so, yeah, Sal or somebody might want to pull her back so she doesn’t actually end up killing him), so she’s definitely going to be humming more than usual. Not enough to send him flying, but definitely enough to do the equivalent of her glass to the face with Ryan.
Let me help you enjoy it, then. Joyce hit him running. Her lower center of gravity and his wobbly legs meant that most of her momentum was transferred to his body at the moment of the punch. Also, you are sort of falling victim to the perspective of the extreme close=up to Toedad. I imagine tomorrow you will find that he will land no more than a handful of feet away from Joyce, which is not much farther than he would land if he simply fell over on his own.
I disagree. First off, Ross was just flung out of a crashing car, so he’s shaky enough to be knocked down with a decent hit. No matter how tough you are, you wouldn’t be walking away from that crash without feeling weak and sustaining injuries.
Secondly, it’s not all about how physically strong you are. Look at Joyce in the last panel. She looks a lot like this picture. She threw her body into that punch, kinetic energy traveling from foot to fist, giving her the extra force to knock Toedad, who we’ve already established does not have good footing, onto the ground.
Thirdly, that point is moot unless you’ve been through 18 years of indoctrination. I wouldn’t be able to say anything on it either. Anyone with experience want to weigh in on that?
So, aside from the third point, I think Joyce punching Toedad is very realistic. She’s had her best friend taken away from her by someone who wholly believes he can “fix” her, similar to how Joyce had tried to “fix” Ethan, except through more violent means.
This is Joyce facing herself, seeing her own shitty actions, and stepping up to solidify her belief that there is absolutely nothing wrong with Becky, or Ethan, or anyone who is gay.
Weighing in on the indoctrination bit. I was raised with fairly strict ideas about the role of the child (especially a girl) in a situation that ….often wasn’t pretty. It is absolutely possible to summon the strength and fury to send an adult flying when you’re feeling furious, terrified, and betrayed -and it seems to be a pretty safe bet to say that Joyce is feeling all of those things -and that the motorcycle ride and flying Amber have probably given her an extra adrenaline boost.
That would also fit what we’ve seen in Joyce. The last time she was betrayed by someone who wore the trapping of her culture, she similarly went ape-shit and probably would have kept going if the drug hadn’t kicked in.
I get what you’re trying to say about it being unlikely that Joyce would punch Ross given how she grew up knowing him etc, but I think all that went away when he pulled out a gun and actually pointed it at his own daughter. Even without that being the case, right in this moment, the only thing Joyce could think about was getting to Becky, so when Ross put himself between them, she most likely punched him out of pure instinct, without any conscious thought about it.
Reminds me of Hermione blasting Snape in Prisoner of Azkaban. She was badass in the moment, but afterwards was hyperventilating over hitting a teacher.
Take the righteous anger/indignation of Joyce.
Mix with a dirtbag who is already battered, shook up, and undoubtedly not at 100% peak peformance.
Now add the element of surprise (of all people, Joyce is probably the last person Ross would believe capable of physical violence).
Result — ToeDad flat on his kiester.
To add to everybody’s reply, Joyce IS the youngest simbling of four older brothers. It is full believable that she learned hot to correctly punch someone square in the jaw from one of them.
I know I have taught my younger sister to knock someone out in case she ever needs to.
Finally somebody brings this up so I don’t have to. Pretty sure she stated in-comic that she knows how to fight/throw a punch exactly because of this (sorry, can’t be arsed to find the comic to link to).
When I was 17 and about 126 lbs soaking wet (so a loong time ago 😛 ), I got in a snowmobile accident and broke my arm. I then, by myself, with a concussion and a broken arm, flipped the 300 lb snowmobile the right way up again.
Adrenaline is fucking amazing, yo. Even without his legs being as wibbly as they seem to be, I have no problem whatsoever believing that with as much adrenaline as will be pumping through Joyce right now, that she was able to send him flying. None at all.
Why just Joyce? It isn’t like the others don’t have a bone to pick with him. Frankly, I’d be fine with the next couple weeks just being new characters showing up at the scene and punching him.
He’s still in the process of kidnapping. He’s still committing a felony. At this point, force is justified, not just to keep him from succeeding, but to detain him for the cops.
I’m not sure how it works in court, but he was also STILL attempting to keep help from reaching Becky, his kidnapping victim. There’s probably some good Samaritan law about that sort of thing.
well shit, i’m not sure what i was expecting but that was not it. kinda surprised idiotoedad continued with his idiotic religious spiel in spite of nearly being killed because he got out of the drivers seat through a window of a moving vehicle to shoot a person on the roof of his car. but hey. that’s your brain on religion, folks. endangering yourself and your children because you think you’re right.
in other news, i really hope joyce didn’t just break her hand/wrist/forearm cuz that would suck.
when fundamentalists look like that there’s something wrong with their fundamentals. ain’t no fundamentalist secular humanist kidnapping people cuz they’re “unclean” or “broken” or the like. basically, this kind of crazy does not exist outside of the religious spectrum. worse still is when people point out that the religion is makin people crazy people like you go ahead and say “ain’t crazy cuz religious!” which is just not true, especially in instances like this. dude is literally monologue-ing about how god has given him the power to “fix” his daughter after literally kidnapping her at gunpoint. ain’t not much more obvious a situation of religiously inspired insanity than that.
I think I could hear the cheering from the fans an hour ago.
Gotta love Newton’s Laws. Specifically the first: “An object in motion will stay in motion unless acted upon by an outside force.” In this case, the object in motion is Joyce’s fist, and the outside force is it meeting Toedad’s jaw. But she’s got enough momentum from her running start, as well as good form and follow-through to continue in motion.
There’s plenty of crazy all over the place if you poke around. Stalin was an atheist, but that didn’t stop him from murdering millions of people. Toedad isn’t even a real person, so his actions don’t make a real argument against religious fundamentalism.
The majority of the world’s people are religious, and most of them have never kidnapped any of their kids at gunpoint. Even the majority of fundies whose kids came out as gay probably haven’t kidnapped them at gunpoint.
(And for what it’s worth, I’m an atheist.)
That said, Toedad’s actions are definitely driven by a combination of personal inclination toward authoritarian violence and a particular brand of religious fundamentalism.
false equivocation. atheism isn’t a dogma. i’m not saying the world would be perfect without religion, i’m saying it would be better. yer still gonna get power hungry fucks but in no situation can a lack of belief in santa clause be a cause for murder (cuz that’s basically what you’re saying. everyone who doesn’t believe in santa is as bad as anyone who is the same and murdered someone). as for toedad not being a real person… well, that’s completely irrelevant. people in real life do worse than this guy has done.
and yet where religion rules, the place is infinitely worse off. saudi arabia? check fuck it, pretty much the entire middle east right now. the vatican? check. fuckin hell, the republicans of the USA are effectively the christian theocratic party now. the majority of the world’s religious people won’t kidnap their children, sure, but a good amount of them do, as well as killing their children via “exorcism” and the like (such as denying life saving blood transfusions) as well as promoting bigotry borne of the bible (cuz if you didn’t notice, that thing is absolutely filled to the brim with it). so, no. your thought process lacks the required knowledge to make any kind of noise on the issue.
your being an atheist is irrelevant. all it says is you don’t believe in any gods.
“god gives me the power” is all you need to hear. it’s really pretty cut and dry in this case.
Fundamentalists exist in all forms, not just religious. They just all seem somewhat religious, because they all ascribe themselves the sort of properties commonly ascribed to gods (knowing everything is a common one).
this is literally the subject i was trying to make obvious. if your fundamentalists act like toedad has then there is something clearly wrong with your fundamentals.
*waves*
Non-crazy religious person here, popping up to say “Religion doesn’t make bigots; it just makes bigots more obnoxiously self-righteous.” Or, as I’ve said many times before, institutional religion is basically a tribal structure (see also: political affiliations, sports teams), and that tends to bring out the worst kind of authoritarian gatekeepers.
incorrect on both accounts. religion makes people selectively insane and typically, especially in the three yahweh religions, promotes bigotry as well as misogyny. every single argument against reproductive health aids are religious. first term abortion? check. condoms? check. sexual education? checked in triplicate. i mean, shit, they’re still trying to promote abstinence-only as an effective educational platform. it doesn’t fucking work! plus, every single argument against the LGBT community: religious. all of them. when you teach people to be bigots do not fucking be surprised when they act like bigots.
sure, i get it, not every single religious person is a monster but honestly so many are it’s just not funny anymore. that said, religion by definition is selective insanity. if you’re not insane, you’re not actually religious.
I fear you may have confused American evangelicalism/fundamentalism with religion in general. Not that surprising, given that they make such a noise about being the only valid form of religion, but it’s ironic that you’ve swallowed their claims wholesale without bothering to educate yourself. Also, if you’re going to call someone else a bigot, probably best not to make sweeping negative value statements while you’re doing it.
Thanks for letting me know I’m insane by the way! I might never have known if not for your enlightened argument! 🙂
religion in general still makes you insane. sorry. granted, i might have a more hazy view of religious people in general, but the point still stands that being religious is effectively being selectively insane. at the same time, i’ll stop being a bigot when people stop murdering their children for religious reasons like denying blood transfusions, performing exorcisms, or otherwise exposing babies to probably contaminated water, as well as murdering people because they’re atheist/gay/different. i really really really hope that can happen one day soon but i honestly don’t see it ending in my lifetime. though, i suspect you will throw something like “what makes you better than them?” to which i have to point out i’m just a guy posting on the internet. i’m not out bombing churches or murdering people and/or children.
I agree that the vast majority of people who are anti-LGBTQ and anti-sex & women and general are so because of religion, at least in the US, but that’s different than most religious people being anti-LGBTQ or anti-sex or anti-women. There’s a particular nasty strain of fundamentalism that pushes such things, but there’s a lot of religion that doesn’t.
the major problem is that the “not fundamentalist” religious people produce the fundamentalist people eventually. when you tell kids there’s literally a magic man in the sky who wrote a rulebook for you to follow that if you don’t you go to a magic place where you will be tortured for an infinite amount of time it’s really not surprising when they take it literally/fundamentally. the books themselves are fucking horrid and yet they keep printing them.
there’s no such thing as nasty fundamentalism. the fundamentals of christianity (islam and jusaism too) are fucking nasty.
im kind of worried about that “you came after me” line. like we know beckys not totally over joyce and this is a pretty spectacular thing joyce just did. im afraid of the potential emotional turmoil that might come from suffering such a traumatic event and being rescued by someone you love but are trying to get over
So remember when Joyce had that encounter with Joe. Beat him up, Joe got pissed, Joyce was all “But I thought girls couldn’t hurt guys, because girls are weak and guys are strong.”
Ross also comes from that same environment. He views himself as strong, Joyce as weak to the point of being harmless, but more than that, he thinks that Joyce shares these views. He’s not truly expecting a fight. He thinks that he can just be all “Rargh! Me Big Dad! You Tiny Girl!” and Joyce will step aside knowing there’s nothing she can do to impede him.
Joyce however has learned a thing or two since last they spoke, and she’s ready to pass the lesson on.
Loss of the certainty of your faith and a realistic exposure to the world as is rather than as sold to you will do that to a person.
Which is why these cultures fear secular university and things like the internet so much. Because when you say everything you say is true and then they go out and find out, oh, some of it is complete bollocks, then they are more likely to keep pulling at the strings to find out what else is bollocks.
Especially when one of the tenets of fundamentalism is that you have to accept ALL of it or you lose everything. Once kids who were raised to believe that find out that much of what they were taught about the physical world is bogus, they often reject the spiritual stuff too. Hence, fundamentalism is a leading cause of atheism.
If the next week or so of strips was just the cast taking turns beating up Ross like the hysterical passenger in the movie Airplane, I would be cool with that. Characters who have no reason to know any of this happened could queue up.
He’s really been stuck in encounters this whole time, huh?
Dina attacks and scratches his face, but he is too much for her.
So Amazi-girl attacks and takes his gun, but his car is too much for her.
So Joyce attacks and knocks him over.
Is Ross ready to give up, or does he need a few more? Note: Ross being ready to give up may involve being unconscious.
To quote lucifer from the Constantine movie: “Looks like somebody doesn’t have your back anymore.” Feels ironic quoting that in the situation but I still felt it worked.
I wonder if this is going to be the start of Joyce healing from her assault. She just proved that she is capable of amazing feats to protect Becky, and just slam dunked Toe-dad across a field. Maybe this will show her that she has strength of her own and will start becoming less afraid to walk across campus on her own, and convince her to seek help with coping.
I don’t know. Currently the PTSD of her assault is intertwining itself with her sexual repression and her faith, which is not great for her. But this might be a stake blow to said faith and the assumptions of morality it makes. Seeing how her faith looks when followed as unerring truth and without bend, seeing the similarities in mistreatment and threat and traumatization, she may be seeing those bonds start to crack, which might at least let her start talking about it openly to a select few, which would be good. Becky, especially, would be good to talk it out with, because she’s made a similar break with the restrictions of her faith and has that long history of trust that will be so necessary as she talks this out.
Yep. The Philistines and the Israelites each picked a champion (so that they didn’t have to fight each other with their whole armies and have lots of casualties). Goliath was chosen to represent the Philistines, because he was friggin’ huge. There’s no reason to think he’s evil or anything.
Well, to be fair, putting a sniper in plain sight on the front lines where the enemy can easily get near and attack them is probably the worst thing you can do with one.
Well, barring something really stupid or nonsensical like slathering them in barbecue sauce and throwing them into a lion pit. Its the worst thing that still kinda makes some kind of sense tactically speaking.
You know, say what you will about him, but damn, God must’ve given him some kind of strength. Most people don’t just pop out of a car wreck that flips the car. Or just recover from hanging out of a car window while in a high speed chase. That would be enough to exhaust pretty much anyone. But Ross is some sort of Terminator. (And I guess it’s genetic since Becky seems ay-oh-kay with zero trauma from this whole scenario)
I know what you mean, but suddenly I’m imagining Toe-Dad as a Big Daddy and his actions make so much more sense now. I wonder if we can harvest any Plasmids from him?
Remember though, we never actually saw what happened to Toedad or anything that happened after Amazigirl lost her grip on the rope. Perhaps he just fell out of the car as it was slowing down. A fall from a few feet up onto the ground might hurt but it probably wouldn`t be a devastating injury.
I was imagining him holding the rope, when the car started tipping. The rope lost the slack, pulling him out the window…now his legs fling out behind him like a jack-knife (he is parallel to the ground, now, and face down) Lets go of the rope, and crashes to the ground, hence the knees?
So i’ve been following DoA (Dumbing of Age not Dead or Alive, funny coincidence though) since the beginning and only now i noticed that there are other three or so comics with the same characters.
So are the other comics within the same lore but in parallel universes that make the story change? Or they just look like the same characters but are different people?
Also could someone (if it’s not to much of course) please give me an critical analysis about the other comics so that i can evaluate if i’ll read them too?
No, totally different lore, beyond the characters themselves. Even then some of them aren’t 100% the same. It’s Willis’s earlier work, starting from the late 90s. He’s re-running them, and currently at the early part of his second comic set in that alternate universe.
Dumbing of Age has far better storytelling and art, because well, he’s clearly improved since those early efforts. He re-drew the first part of It’s Walky and had me wishing for more. A re-make if you will. 😛
It goes something like this:
– Roomies! was Willis’ original comic, starting off as a mostly slice-of-life college strip that went very dark after a character death.
– It’s Walky! was the followup in the same universe, which moved out of college into a sci-fi romp with aliens, action and occasional high drama.
– Shortpacked! then followed some of the IW! characters into civilian life working in a toy store, with a lot of pop-culture gags (and occasional high drama, because Willis).
– There’s Joyce & Walky! too, also a followup, which takes Joyce and Walky (the original OTP of the comic) into a domestic sitcom. It does introduce a few characters and plot threads that show up here, but a fair number of the relevant comics were subscriber-only and are now available to Patreon supporters.
Dumbing Of Age is basically a complete reboot of the entire thing with the benefit of 15 years of writing and drawing experience, going back to the slice-of-life setting of the original Roomies! (with occasional high drama). Characters are mostly drawn from Willis’ previous comics, generally keeping their design and personality outlines, but it’s a fresh start for all of them.
The truth is, is that Joyce actually multiplies her strength every time she swears. Her aversion to swearing isn’t because she sees it as a sin but because she doesn’t want to risk hurting anyone. Her DAMN IT! was simply her powering up.
Hell: X5
Damn: X10
Crap:X15
Shit:X20
Fuck:X50
Seven dirty words you can’t say on Tv said in quick succession: X500
“Oh great he’s talking about father’s duty again. Lord, give me the strength to not punch him square in the jaw, or at least the strength to do so.”
…
“God’s will be done.”
Probably been said before, but, youngest child with 3 older brothers equals not weak physically or super manipulative possible but for j I don’t think the latter is the case
You know, I think this whole event speaks a lot about Amber’s effectiveness as Amazi-Girl. As far as serious crises goes, she’s 0 for 2 in terms of helping people, and 0-1 in instigating a fight with Sal. Amazi-Girl has only ever made things worse, or was otherwise useless, and I’m sure it’s because she’s not doing the “superheroine” thing for other people; she’s doing this to avoid confronting her issues, arguably at the expense of others. While I do understand that trauma is hard to work through, I think her current method of coping isn’t just dangerous; it’s selfish and self-serving, with the pretense of helping others as an excuse. It doesn’t mean I hate her; I just hope she realizes this and stops.
Contrast that with Joyce, who’s had more victories than defeats by just being herself when it comes to fighting. She’s successfully defended Dorothy from her over-religious parents, she defended herself from a bible-quoting rapist, and now Joyce is in the process of defending Becky from her dangerously religious father. The difference between Joyce and Amazi-Girl is that Joyce genuinely cares.
Sure, Amazi-Girl cares about human life as a general vigilante rule, but she has neither the passion nor the drive that Joyce has when it comes to confronting danger, especially for the benefit of others. Amazi-Girl is an emotional self-defense created by Amber, she isn’t there to help people; that’s just a result of imagining these crises as her past traumas.
I think that one of the best lessons Joyce learned from growing up in a fundamentalist home is that you should defend and put your whole faith into your beliefs. Be passionate about them. We’ve seen her do that when trying to justify her belief in the Bible and God. Right now, Joyce has placed her belief in Becky, in her best friend, and she’ll do everything she can to defend her.
Great analysis! As with all good character analyses, the correct thing to do here is disagree. Because internet. =)P
While I won’t disagree with you about Amazi-Girl’s motives or high-risk methods, she doesn’t seem short on passion where asshole abusive fathers and their victim daughters are concerned, and however badly it nearly turned out in this case she deserves at least an assist. She wasn’t ineffective. The biggest threats were (1) Toedad escaping in the Toemobile with Becky and going off to do… whatever he was planning, (2) Toedad shooting someone; and (3) State troopers ka-spewing Toedad’s brains in front of Becky and traumatizing her for life. However risky her methods, she neutralized all three threats. I have NO IDEA how Sal and Joyce were planning to get him to stop, but it wouldn’t have been pretty either.
As for Joyce, I’m going to again disagree. Joyce is normally a confused and conflicted individual, handicapped by her upbringing. She leans towards kindness, compassion, and acceptance. These are at her core and are a great source of strength and determination, and they’re about character, not beliefs. She could be capable of almost anything through this. But she is held back alternatively by confusion regarding the, erm, harsher parts of Christianity, and by uncertainty stemming from exposure to the myriad things from which she had been previously sheltered. Her strength emerges not from the application of faith in any sense beyond dedication to people, but instead from setting aside this confusion and uncertainty when it truly matters.
Her passion is based on her psychological trauma, trying to “correct the wrong” that happened by using this trauma as a “weapon for good”. That is very passionate, sure, but it’s a self-serving passion that fizzles out when confronted with reality. On the flip side, Joyce is protecting her best friend when she could’ve just let Amazi-Girl do her thing. She is held back by her confusion, yes, but it’s overridden by the powerful instinct to help others when they’re in need, and that instinct is validated through her faith.
Joyce’s beliefs are something to consider, because prior to Becky showing up, Joyce still thought homosexuality was something to “cure”. She tried to “cure” Ethan because she thought that’s what her beliefs called for. Here, she is facing that belief in the form of Toedad, and rejecting it. That alone is a very powerful message about how her beliefs and faith have changed.
The story of Joyce is the story of coming to terms with one’s religious upbringing, how society challenges those beliefs, and how one chooses to react. Time and again, Joyce has chosen to use her faith in the defense of people that fundie Christians like toedad or her parents would condemn. She’s rejecting their interpretation of their shared faith in God and Jesus Christ and asserting her own; one that isn’t cruel or discriminatory against anyone.
Rather than setting aside her confusion and uncertainty, I think it becomes clearer to Joyce on what she does and doesn’t believe in. She believes that Becky is valid in who she is, and she doesn’t believe that what Becky’s father is doing is right or morally just.
I imagine it would’ve gone better than a car crash that could’ve potentially killed the red vehicle driver (because Amazi-Girl lost her grip), Amazi-Girl herself (if Sal wasn’t there to catch her), Toedad and Becky.
Secondly, there is more than one way to stop a car, just as there is more than one way to disarm a person.
I imagine it would’ve ended in a car crash anyway, after Toedad trying to ram through police fortifications, possibly while shooting/being shot at, with a lesser chance of survival.
I really like this analysis! I agree with all that actually, it all makes a lot of sense. Amazi-Girl does what she does *for herself* instead of other people, whereas Joyce does things the other way around, even if its hard or its something that is against her original beliefs.
Amber definitely needs some help. I’m hoping this will help her realise it!
That may have been the case once but read ‘hostage’ again. See what Amazi-Girl’s reason is for keeping up the pursuit despite having smashed into a windscreen at 20mph: “I cant… fail anyone!”
She may be crazy and self-deluding, but she believes that she’s doing this to help people.
well, yes, “*I* can’t fail anyone!” as good as her intentions are, it’s still about her. which is what you’d expect when Amazi-Girl is a coping mechanism.
That’s still more about her own issues than actually helping people, I think, and goes back to both the end of WBDDB and Blaine berating her for not being able to do anything about Sal taking Ethan hostage. I dunno, I’m struggling to articulate the impression I got from it.
This is a very biased, unfair, and inaccurate analysis of both Joyce and Amazigirl. It feels less like you understand either character, and more like you want to find knit-picky reasons to attack Amber/Amazigirl and will twist information to suit this conclusion.
For the record, I am not saying that was Amazigirl is doing is healthy. It is not. Burying her emotions, problems like domestic abuse, under layers of anger and disassociation is not healthy. Still, that doesn’t mean that she hasn’t helped in these situations, particularly in this violent kidnapping.
The facts are:
1) Toedad was ALREADY violent and talking about fighting the police over custody of his daughter.
2) Toedad was ALREADY endangering both himself and Becky by driving recklessly.
3) Toedad was already several minutes ahead of Sal before Amazigirl slowed them down.
Those are indisputable facts shown through the dialogue and storytelling.
We also know that any discussion with Becky could have led to more anger and escalation. Particularly if she had called 911 without being prompted by Amazigirl! He was already prepared to strike her for even trying to keep them from getting in a wreck, and had they continued that is a very likely outcome – particularly with Sal in pursuit.
Do you think that if he saw Joyce in the rearview instead of Amazigirl this situation would have been resolved more peacefully? Or, more likely, would he have started behaving more recklessly in the name of “Defending” his daughter? In which case, there wouldn’t have been anyone to disarm Ross. Or keep him from hitting the pavement and dying (Traumatizing Becky). Or kept the car from flipping.
Sal simply DOESN’T HAVE THAT SKILLSET. Without Amazigirl to disarm and stop Ross, she would have escalated the situation as well simply by being present.
And don’t even get me STARTED on cops, who would have likely have tried to flip the car anyway.
So, sure, Joyce got in the last punch, but it was only after Amazigirl disarmed Ross, stopped his vehicle, and got him just injured enough that Joyce was capable of knocking him down. Heaven knows she couldn’t do it at the fountain!
In fact, I am going to double down on this stance and say that Joyce put Becky in DANGER by refusing to contact people who would be able to help her friend. She didn’t want to tell Dorothy or Amazigirl – the two people who would be most capable of preventing this situation in the first place! Dorothy is an incredibly intelligent woman with a strong understanding of the world, law, and how to help others. She’s also an aspiring politician who understands how to pull favors with connections, and her boyfriend’s mother knows the Dean. She would have been the most able to find a safe and legal way to keep Becky on campus, but Joyce would not tell her because of personal reasons. That was selfish.
Amazigirl/Amber, had she known about Becky, could have helped ensure she wasn’t spotted and that Ross wouldn’t endanger Becky at the school. Not only is she highly educated about the LGBT+ community, and so more likely to know of resources to help Becky, but she is also generally more experienced at ensuring that she isn’t caught by the wrong people. She wouldn’t have overlooked the fact that Becky’s orange hair was a red flag. She also would have been more hyper-vigilant in ensuring that if Becky was spotted, she wasn’t put in that much danger.
By not contacting her friends and assuming Becky could just sleep in her dorm with no fallout, Joyce CAUSED this entire arc. Without Amazigirl, people probably would have died.
For Amazi-Girl’s ‘real world superheroing’, she’s not doing so bad. She’s been shown to have actually stopped other crimes in progress, or are we not counting the time she saved the woman being harrassed on the street because she’s nameless? She actually did stop the White-Board Ding-Dong Bandit. So far she has exactly two in-panel failings: picking a fight with Sal & crew and allowing the escape of Ol’ Gash Face. And honestly, after Dorothy reports _this_ incident of Amazi-Girl being hit by a car and stopping a ToeDad (a campus shooter) people might actually calm down as much as people did in Seattle after Phoenix Jones’ secret identity was revealed to be MMA. Even in this incident, Amazi-Girl may not have ‘saved the day’ but she certainly kept the day from slipping into that cold black night by disarming ToeDad, bringing the car to a stop and simply helping when it was shown that the police were not going to.
Amber’s psychological problems are still more of a burden on Amazi-Girl than her ‘official’ record.
Um. I think you’re way off the mark on a few things here.
First, from your ‘indisputable facts’, number 2 is flat wrong. Becky got Ross to slow down and drive normally already – telling him to stop at stop signs before they even got off campus, and to ‘drive casual’ when she saw the cops coming (and before she saw AG).
Secondly, Joyce did tell Dorothy about Becky. Becky turned up on Thursday, and Joyce told Dorothy about her situation the very next day; Dorothy discreetly raised the subject of shelters in their Gender Studies class after lunch. As for Amazi-Girl – she was the person Joyce contacted, via Dorothy, as soon as she knew Ross was back on campus (when Becky called her while running through the meadow, and before Ross turned up at the fountain with the gun). Joyce certainly didn’t “refuse to contact people”, and I think you’re doing exactly what you’re accusing ninja_jesus of here.
Also, your whole thing with Amazi-Girl having the skills to save Ross and Becky from the crash neatly sidesteps the fact that AG caused the crash in the first place by blowing out Ross’ tyre. I’ve said my piece already in the last couple of days so won’t repeat everything here.
It wouldn’t have been as exciting, but the best possible reaction from Amazi-Girl (in terms of Becky’s safety) would probably be something like this:
AG: “Joyce, listen to me. Do you know where they’re going?”
J: “Y-yes. I think so. Becky said he wanted to take her home. To La Porte.”
AG: “Joyce, you need to call the police right now. Tell them what’s happened, where they’re going, and describe the car. They’ll catch him and get Becky out of there, I promise. Now I’m going to go find Dina and make sure she’s okay too.”
Firstly, Becky told Toedad to drive casual, but there was very little indication of him doing so. And, in fact, the second that anyone would have entered pursuit his reckless behaviors would have continued. It doesn’t matter if we’re discussing Amazigirl, Sal, or the police. Anyone tailing Toedad would have escalated the situation, and SOMEONE WOULD HAVE PURSUED HIM. Even if your “Best case scenario,” the police would have pursued, Toedad would have either tried to escape through reckless driving (Prompting either the pit maneuver or tire shredding strips – which would have flipped the car anyway), or he would have taken the gun out and ended in a shoot off. The fact that you believe that calling the police on a man with a rifle holding his daughter hostage in a high speed chase would have ended better than no one getting seriously injured is LAUGHABLE at best.
Joyce might have MENTIONED Becky’s situation, but she didn’t take anyone’s advice. She wanted Becky to just live in her dorms with no one noticing, just forever. She was told this wasn’t feasible, and she didn’t care. She was told it was short-sighted, and she didn’t care. She was told of places which could help Becky AND SHE DIDN’T CARE. She, like a short-sighted child, believed that she could just hide a full grown woman away in a dorm forever with absolutely no fallout.
There’s a difference between telling someone, and seeking help and taking that help. Joyce didn’t. She did things her way. She put Becky in danger because of it.
But let’s return to the police again, shall we? In our universe, the police are a mixed bag. Sure you have good police officers who can and do resolve dangerous situations, but you also have a police academy which teaches force before negotiation and acceptable losses. One hostage in a car has less value than the potentially dozens who could be killed when Ross gets in a high-speed shootout. Pedestrians, other drivers, police officers… They’re not going to put everyone in danger over Becky. Period.
And that is OUR universe.
In the Dumbing world, the police seem to be incompetent to the point of comedic effect. Not only do they make NO effort to find an illegal vigilante on premises, they can’t even distinguish between an animal attack and a beating – from when Amber assaulted her father. After the shooting, they made no effort to secure the premises, and let a speeding car (With a girl riding behind it on a skateboard) drive right past them. Because, you know, fleeing the scene of a crime isn’t suspicious at all.
What do you think the best-case resolution would be with cops who can’t even be bothered to do their jobs? Do you sincerely, honestly think it’d be better than disarming a dangerous man and getting everyone out alive?
Hmm. Wow. You seem to be very convinced of a lot of things that ‘would’ have happened, and of what you say characters were thinking when, I believe, the text clearly shows otherwise. You’re also trying to move the goalposts after you’re been shown to be wrong (“Joyce didn’t tell Dorothy! Okay, well, she might have mentioned it but…”).
Protip: Dismissing someone else’s reply as ‘drivel’ and then proceeding to shout at them is not conducive to any kind of discussion. You’ve clearly got some kind of raging hate-on for Joyce and aren’t interested in listening to anyone else’s interpretation, so I’m out. Have a nice day.
I don’t hate Joyce at all. I am pointing out that saying she “Saved the day” or resolved the conflict is completely wrong when she is part of the root cause of the conflict. To be honest, I had forgotten that she had made mention of Becky to Dorothy, but she didn’t pursue advice. She didn’t even acknowledge that there was a need for long-term goals. Becky staying at a school where she would be spotted with no protection, while being stalked by her father IS in part Joyce’s fault based on the choices she made.
And I am countering the ‘should’a, could’a, would’a’ with another perspective. The idea that contacting the police wouldn’t escalate the situation is just plain wrong. Police CONSTANTLY escalate situations. They’re trained to apprehend, and in this situation they would not have let an armed assailant escape, and Ross already said he would fight the police if they gave chase. There’s no good end there. None.
Joyce and Amazigirl have some similarities. They are both victims of assaults that have left them psychologically scarred. They are both resistant to getting help. They’re both more willing to handle situations outside of their control independently, rather than seek help. They both need help in dealing with the roots of these issues, rather than burying trauma under coping mechanisms. They both played a role in how this chain of events played out – both in a positive and negative way.
My problem is that the OP is fixating on one action by Joyce and saying it resolved the entire situation and that she saves people just by being herself, and that is simply not true. Joyce played just as much of a role in escalating this to violence as Amazigirl had, while Amazigirl had managed to successfully avoid getting anyone seriously injured. As far as comic-book-worlds are concerned, that’s a win! It’s more than what many heroes could say, honestly.
Just a point: Ross caused the crash by abandoning the wheel and climbing out of the moving car to shoot Amazi-girl. A crash was pretty much guaranteed from that moment.
Would he have let go of the wheel to shoot police cars?
Would there be caltrops on the road puncturing his tires and sending them spinning into a truck?
Would some random bystander end up getting her windshield smashed?
It’s ultimately kind of pointless to ask about could/should, but I think the entire argument over the last week is less about whether Amber did a good job and more that she really shouldn’t have been physically able to without plot armor.
That was specifically in reply to “neatly sidesteps the fact that AG caused the crash in the first place by blowing out Ross’ tyre.”
I also suspect, you and the author may have different ideas about the kind of realism to expect in the strip. We’ve got a lot of emotional and psychological realism – everyone involved is going to dealing with the emotional consequences of this for years of our time, much like Joyce still (not) dealing with the attempted rape.
And there’s no aliens or super-tech kind of weirdness. Still, Amazi-girl’s been playing by super-hero rules the whole time. Both in terms of physical prowess and things like the secret identity trope.
More broadly, how else could this have gone, narratively? It’s all well and good to talk about the best realistic option being to call the cops and let them handle it, but that doesn’t work story wise. What would that look like? We see Joyce call the cops and give a report, go down the station and give a statement, then hear that Ross is dead and Becky’s been taken to the hospital for observation?
Or we could follow Becky, sitting helplessly as Ross crashes into the police blockade and drags himself from the car with his gun, to be blown away?
Or just wait a couple of months real time before we find they found him at home and were able to rescue her.
The protagonists needed to be the ones to stop Toedad. How could that be arranged, without breaking your suspension of disbelief?
Agree that narratively, simply calling the cops would have been unsatisfying – and certainly less exciting, as I said. I don’t think that precludes discussion of whether Amazi-Girl did the right thing within the story.
Please note that saying “Amazi-Girl made the situation worse” is not* the same thing as “Amazi-Girl made the comic less enjoyable” or “Willis shouldn’t have written it this way”. The last week or so has been a wild and exciting ride building up to a fantastic point of catharsis, and none of it would have happened if Amazi-Girl hadn’t escalated the situation. But I absolutely think she did escalate it – again, within the story – and that plays into the ongoing arc of Amber’s psychological issues.
(*for me; I recognise that some people have found the last week less enjoyable. Nothing wrong with that, either: people like different things.)
SHORYUKEN!
HADOUKEN!
DAD-OUKEN
DAD-TOE-KEN
DAD-TOE-CAN’T
KAMEHAMEHA
…wait.
Half of me says violence is wrong
Other half says screw that, Ross is a dick (and has been violent enough) and this feels oh-so-very-cathartic
My opinion? In most situations, violence is not the answer.
A kidnapping in progress is not most situations.
Exactly! Violence is wrong. Ross is now finding out how his violent actions are catching up with him.
Violence is indeed the last refuge of the ignorant. The intelligent (and/or badass) use it right at the beginning.
Karma.
“Violence is never the answer”? Bollocks to that, Violence is the answer to the question “What does Ross deserve right now for attempting to fucking kidnap his own daughter?”
Also, Ross, God has apparently given you the strength to get knocked the fuck out by sweet little Joycy. And it couldn’t have happened to a nicer guy. 😀
Wait a sec, ana wasnt first? ITS THE END OF THE WORLD
But seriously thou, “Violence is never the answer. Violence should be the question.”
{laughs as Joyce clobbers Toedad}
“The answer is Yes!”
Violence is always the answer.
It’s the best answer.
Want to remove a long lasting problem without lingering consequences? Violence!
Violence until the consequences are over!
Otoesan!
if violence is never the answer, then what is the answer to the question “what is never the answer?”
maybe it is violence
DID YOU KNOW! “Violence is Wrong” is actual a misquote. The full quote is, “Violence is always wrong, but sometimes necessary.”
Violence is wrong if there are other options. Unfortunately, there are always variables and not all of them allow us the time to explore other options. In this case, the main variable is Ross being unwilling to listen to anything except the dogmatic memories of his traditions, as well as showing that he’s willing to take extreme measures to enforce them.
If brute force fails to solve any problem, it’s because you didn’t use enough.
The funny thing is very few people I’ve run into can adaquetely define what violence is. But most are willing to impose very absolutist ‘answers’ and restriction on how you respond to a situation.
I define violence as any application of force that comes with an inherent risk of harm. (not a quote. My own musings). Hence violence extends to emotional, physical, and even finanical actions.
An extention of this is that it’s not about ‘avoiding violence’, its about first deciding when it is ok to apply force, and also minimising harm. This means first being philosophically aware of your values, and then looking at the outcomes rather than the first immediate action (however good it may feel)
This is why Sal is right. Amazi-Girl is fun, but she is not a harm minimiser. She makes things likely to end badly. And also, why a strong violent first response can sometimes result in less harm than a drawn out less strong response.
THEPIPESAREBROKEN
May the force be with you!
Looks like Toedad should have checked himself…
Dangit, that was supposed to be a new comment, not a reply. :/
becky-toe-dad-kin
err joycehakdutoedad
IDLIKESOMEPOUNDCAKE
So THAT’S what they’re saying!
IN THE FAAAAAAAAAAACEE
HADOUHOU!*
* Hadouken = Wave Motion Fist. Hadouhou = Wave Motion Gun.
What about Hatouhou?
Wave Bullet Hell?
Waves of girls in frilly hats is a more accurate translation I believe.
I get that reference!
Pigeon gun?
Perfect gravatar for that comment.
Nope. Spider gun. Sal is jealous.
Oh I’m sure Sal is falling in love right now.
Sal?? Think about Becky!!
But ‘spider’ is ‘gumo’ not ‘hato’.
Joyce is Derek Wildstar.
And Wildstar just pulled the trigger on Toedad
Exactly. 😀
Joyce hit so hard she knocked the site a full minute out of its usual update timeframe
Which is outstanding, but…how is Toedad standing up to begin with. Broken knees and all? Guess they weren’t.
Adrenaline is a hell of a thing, and I’m betting he’s full of it.
The rush of being rebuked by a girl, for another girl, chased by two girls while being reported on by the first girl, kicked by a one of the two girls, who was rescued by a girl, accompanied by yet another girl, who was trying to save the first girl, then finally being punched by the girl who came with the girl who rescued one of the two girls who was racing after the first girl.
So, grrl rush, then?
Oh he’s full of it, all right
Well, I think we can all agree he’s full of it.
Well, spoilers here (well wild guesses anyhow), but Joyce hit him so hard, she killed her own trauma and fear regarding strangers and date rape and such. 😉
Oh, also, Joyce seems to be channeling It’sWalky Joyce lately, counterbalancing the bike during that catch, and now Falcon Punch? Inner Badass, unleashed!
I think that if powerful punches killed trauma, Amazi-Girl would be doing a lot better emotionally…
Achievement Unlocked?
Just plain JVT (Joyce Vs Toedad)
Next strip: C-C-C-COMBO!
DEADLY TRIANGLE BEAM
Your gravatar makes this comment 28% better!
Sal puts herbike tire on his face and revs the engine. 247 hit shredding combo!!
ULTRAAAAA!!!
GOD LIKE COMBO.
I wish there were likes on here… so that I could give you one million of them.
How dare you. The shoryuken is a spinning uppercut and I will not have such a proud technique mocked in such a manner.
Hey, I know what I’m talking about. The Shoryuken was taught to Heihachi Mishima by the Lin Kuei master Captain Falcon. It’s the ultimate technique in Shaq Fu.
After Mishima defeated the Skullgirl, he was declared King of Fighters, and founded the Novus Orbis Librarium to defend Urth from the vampire (and two time Dead or Alive Beach Volleyball champion) Demitri Maximoff.
You forgot the part where Mishima was a Street Fighter, after training with the Virtua Fighter helmet given to him by the Super Smash Bros. Heihachi got one helluva Killer Instict when he had mastered the shoryuken because he began engaging in Motal Kombat. He later would meet his end by an unforseen Divekick. It did a million damage, and he had 100 health.
*Killer Instinct
Smash Brothers isn’t really a fighting game if you think about it.
How is it not?
Because its not even a video game really.
(its a joke from LPer’s, The Super Best Friends, to mess with people who take playing the game way to seriously.)
I think you guys are looking for FALCON PUNCH!!!! Because she just showed her moves.
You are an asshole kidnapper that looks like a toe BUT I AM A JOYCE!
Someone is going to flash the Linkara signal on that one.
–FLY!
The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.
One problem is that you have to miss the ground accidentally. It’s no good deliberately intending to miss the ground because you won’t. You have to have you attention suddenly distracted by something else when you’re halfway there, so that you are no longer thinking about falling, or about the ground, or about how much it’s going to hurt if you fail to miss it.
For instance, you might think instead about your face connecting with a strong right hook.
At first, I thought she’d hit him with a camo-colored piece of… something.
To those who’d ground me, take a message back from me:
Tell them how I am defying gravity
I’m flying high, defying gravity
(I think I just figured out who this chapter’s title is REALLY about.)
… given Toedad’s motivations, “Wicked” is rather appropriate anyway…
I would have said Joyce grounded him.
Don’t panic.
Hitchhikers Guide to the Universe reference. “There is no trick to flying, just aim at the ground….and miss’ Love that one.
Toedad is not going to miss.
Wait, is that my bag?
My favorite thing about that part is that “throw yourself at the ground and miss” is actually how orbits work.
Also, got my towel.
I give this post… a THUMBS UP
Thumbs go up when toes go down
I give this post… a TOES UP
YES. GOOD.
EXCELLENT! EVERYTHING IS GOING ACCORDING TO PLAN! MWAHAHAHAHA!
You go, girl!
“You hit like a girl” must be a compliment in the Dumbing of Age world
Most dudes I know can’t uppercut a motherfucker that amazingly
It’s a common trope in movies and tv series that people who have never thrown a punch before will be able to do it really well when it actually matters.
Part of it comes from not knowing just how much your hand might hurt.
GO, JOYCE!
*Waves DRAGONS chearleader pom-poms* RAH RAH RAH STUB THAT TOE LIKE HE DON’T KNOW RAH RAH RAH
BIM BAM BEE! KICK ‘IM IN THE KNEE! BIM BAM BASS! KICK ‘IM IN THE OTHER KNEE!
I was going to submit an obligatory IN THE FAAAAAAACE reply, but Ive already done that two times today… hmm JOYCE PUNCHED HIM FOR A NICKEL!
NOBODY messes with our Joycy’s family! NOBODY! 😀
Strength to what? You didn’t finish!
Strength to turn the other cheek, of course. I mean, Joyce certainly turned his cheek. With her fist.
And as a good Christian, she’s duty bound to turn the other one.
strength to…weight ratio of a wet paper doll, it would seem.
Water is incompressible when it come to high speed impacts. It’s like diving off the golden gate bridge or getting towel snapped at the pool. Wet towels hurt more for a reason.
I think this is my favorite “finish that sentence” comment.
The Strength to make any girl under the age of 19’s fist explode after punching me.
The strength to get knocked the fuck down.
In the hereafter, God, Aslan, and Dab are watching the fight on God’s big screen.
Aslan says “give him some more strength, I want to see her knock him down again.”
I don’t often use “lol” for it is often inaccurate.
However, in this case, I really did lol.
You know, Wiz and Boomstick over at Death Battle could make a ton of folks happy by doing this as one of their matches.
To be punched into the middle of next week?
Joyce: “Oh, I’m sorry, did I break your concentration?”
YEEEEESSSS
It’s the most satisfying comic in the history of the airyu internet.
I typed this on my phone and I don’t know why it put in a second “airyu” there (airyu is one of the words I added to my phone dictionary)
Willis, you, sir, just won the internet. Unfortunately, we’ll have to reposes the internet in order to make up for all the times we’ve damned you.
You go Joyce! Man I can’t enough of all these characters kicking (Ross’s) ass! =D
Also, the end of that sentence is definitely “bully teenagers into submission”.
The end of that sentence is probably “given me the strength to remain ignorant and oblivious to my own hypocrisy.”
Or, like, “given me the strength to resist any and all contradicting opinions and facts”.
That too
“FINISH HIM!”
NOOO! Becky still loves him!
Give him a Babality and home someone raises him better the next time.
^THIS^
Fatality!
Babality is a physical change, not mental.
….Is it weird I know that?
Hey, a brutal lecture would cut deeper than any Fatality if it got through his resolute denial of opposing viewpoints.
He wouldn’t listen. Only thing for the likes of him is force.
I know it’s a pretty big ‘if,’ but I think a Joyce wielding the wrath of God has a better chance than anything else.
Not likely. Toedad’s a conservative “Christian” (I use that term EXTREMELY loosely, based on experience), and still thinks he’s in the right. He sees Joyce, Becky, and their gender as inferior, and even if Joyce was somehow able to put the fear of God into him, he’d still maintain that he was acting in his family’s best interests.
You know, I get tired of this. It’s the No True Scotsman fallacy. A Christian did something bad, so they aren’t a Christian. Bullshit. They are a Christian, they have been up to that point. They don’t magically stop being.
Most Christians might not act like that, but they are Christians. Christians have done FAR worse. Someone pointed out recently that Militant Islam very much resembles much of earlier Christianity. Nothing ISIS has done has not been done by Christians, and worse. Are you to say that those people were not Christians?
Within just about any group of people there are good and bad people. The percentages may be higher in some groups, but I find that whole Christians are always good a bunch of crap.
We had someone assassinated in my city, in a church by a Christian, for religious reasons. Much like Toedad here, and because of that, I’m not going to let someone claim even a stretch to call them Christian. If I look at the actions of Jesus in the bible, I’d have to start eliminating whole swaths of the Christians. You might as well compare Communists (Leninists, Stalinists, and Maoists for example) to Marx’s book. They hold up about as well.
“Nothing ISIS has done has not been done by Christians, and worse. Are you to say that those people were not Christians?”
No, they were not, and ISIS were never Muslim.
Saying there’s something “magical” about that, is like saying that a person that removes all its clothes somehow magically stops being clothed.
It’s not magic, it’s removing the defining characteristics.
“Saying there’s something “magical” about that, is like saying that a person that removes all its clothes somehow magically stops being clothed.
It’s not magic, it’s removing the defining characteristics.”
-Mindlink, November 5, 2015 (7:52 AM)
The No True Scotsman is a fallacy ONLY when offered without proof. To use a less controversial example, I can declare that “A Christian believes Jesus is God’s son.” Well, as the Arian heresy demonstrates pretty clearly, there are some people who can call themselves Christian but believe things that are totally different.
It is therefore NOT a No True Scotsman to declare that “Christians” who don’t believe a minimum defined set of beliefs are not, in fact, True Christians.
In addition, the No True Scotsman only applies to practical examples. If I say that “No Christian should ignore the poor,” and you say “I saw a Christian ignoring the poor just the other day,” it is NOT fallacious to say “He should not have ignored the poor,” even though that’s exactly the same thing as saying “No TRUE Christian should ignore the poor.” The argument was made as an ideal to hold people to, and nobody knows better than Christians how easy it is to forget the more inconvenient teachings and beliefs like “Sell everything and help those in need” or “Love thy neighbor as thyself.” We get it. We’re flawed. Not every Christian is going to be able to do what is right all the time. However, we SHOULD be trying to help the poor, and we SHOULD be kind and understanding to others, and it’s definitely not a fallacy to say that we and those like us *ought* to do it in response to the accusation that we *haven’t been* doing it.
Look. Christianity is not a well-defined category. It isn’t even defined with a gray border-area, the way “clothed” versus “unclothed” might be.
Instead, it’s overly-defined. There’s thousands of DIFFERENT definitions floating around out there, distinct from and mutually-exclusive with each other in a bunch of subtly different ways, and no one definition is universally accepted as the “correct” one. For nearly every doctrinal or behavioral standard you might wish to apply, there’s going to be at least an entire denomination of identifying Christians that fall outside of that.
The No True Scotsman thing also isn’t a fallacy when applied to matters of (arguable) definition. There’s a reason you see it cited as “No True Scotsman puts sugar on porridge” and not “No True Scotsman lacks both Scottish ancestry and British citizenship”.
For a religion, it’s not inherrently fallacious to assert that some doctrinal matter is part of the definition, and therefore that people who claim to be Christians without meeting that definition are heretics.
I imagine when the cops show up, he’ll start “justifying” his behavior to them, expecting them to back him up.
I certainly hope so – preferably, he get’s maced/tazed when going for his gun, as being unconscious when they arrive won’t be as satisfying
I have to disagree the first three crusades for instance were defensive wars, actually studied the subject. People do horriable/evil things and think they are justified because of ideology/belief
YYYYEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You’ve just got to love Becky’s smile when she sees Joyce…
Her look of consternation is less pleasant.
I’m gettin’ SEMME flashbacks.
I was just thinking that Joyce was channeling her Alternate Universe Self. She is, after all, wearing the same outfit.
Amazed that Ross could even walk.
You go girl! Show him your Righteous Right Hook.
Somehow, BOTH Roth and Joyce are channeling the Power of Righteous Fury!
Next strip Joyce goes flame red as she channels Bruning Justice!
I’m increasingly wondering if Willis has tired of ‘everyday college life’ and has decided to turn this into the ‘How the Gang Got Together’ story of the Justice League Bloomington!
If so I’m guessing it’ll rotate between adventures that deserved to be on JLU and shennangians worthy of the Justice League Antartica
I’m glad that I’m not the only one who remembers the JLAnt 😀
None are needed. This is the guy that pulled a gun out on her and kidnapped her best friend for something she’s come to realize isn’t evil, and that the only evil that exists in regards to it is the people who use God as an excuse to be abusive and violent.
She’s probably also going to take out some of that anger she has towards Ryan on him as well, but Ross has literally done nothing but make himself worthy of being that punching bag.
Still too bad that he’s not a toe-shaped splatter underneath a semi’s tire, but this is quite cathartic.
Okay. Even with all that has happened, I will still admit I did not see that coming.
Are you kidding? Slice of life comics always go like that! First, a character shows up on campus and turns out to be a lesbian. Then, the character comes out of the closet so hard she nukes it from orbit. Then she gets a girlfriend. The her dad shows up with a gun and kidnaps her. Then the lesbian’s friend completes their own transition to BADASS. Then she’s partially saved by a superhero, then the superhero is saved by the superhero’s arch-nemesis, then the lesbian’s friend punches the lesbian’s dad. SOOOO cliche. (Seriously, though – Willis is great at writing plots!)
Wow! I’d read that!
You did.
(was bein’ silly)
Yeeeeees that’s what I hoped for !
The father got over there quickly, given the apparent state of his knees.
There’s motion lines on his leg. I think he was able to stand up, but not by much and so was on wobbly legs when trying to assert his “authority”.
Thanks for pointing that out – I didn’t see that
A lot of people have made comments about his knees being broken or otherwise mangled, but to be honest I don`t think we have enough evidence to say how damaged they were.
Everything seems to be based on the strip which showed some red on his legs and torn pants. But, that could also simply be due to relatively minor scraping. We never saw exactly what happened to his knees, and it looked like he was sitting on the curbside in the last strip; if his knees were broken, I doubt he would have been in that position.
Blammo!
More like “NNNNVVVMMMMKRCRLBRPFVOOOOOOOOOOOM!”
SUPER-JOYCE
eventually he’ll learn to just stay down
that day is probably not this day
Stay down?
Honestly, though, I just hope that he can feel guilt for his actions, and that he can come to an understanding of why he’s done is wrong, and that one day he apologizes to a tearful Becky in a strip that has ALL the feels, and that they hug, and that all the readers want to cry.
After being a recurring villain for a while, he finally comes around in time to
sacrifice himself to stop a more dangerous villain. He will die in Becky’s arms.
This is going to be one hell of a freshman year.
Yes.
From what we’ve seen of him, I don’t know if Ross can objectively look at his situation. The extreme version of “family values” and concept of absolute patriarchal authority are too deeply ingrained in his idea of what a family should be. He thinks anything less than the ‘perfect’ Leave it to Beaver nuclear family structure is unacceptable, and what doesn’t fit into it must be wrong in some way, because it doesn’t fit.
Through this entire episode he hasn’t acted in the best interest of Becky as a person; he has only worried about losing his “perfect daughter”. He doesn’t understand what Becky is figuring out about herself, and there’s no predefined place in the template for New Becky, therefore “she is corrupt and must be restored to her proper place”. In his eyes this will save the family he’s supposed to have.
Then again who knows, maybe he wasn’t as extreme in the past but doubled down on his ‘ideal family’ notions after his wife died. Or maybe he just really wants grandchildren.
“He thinks anything less than the ‘perfect’ Leave it to Beaver nuclear family structure is unacceptable, and what doesn’t fit into it must be wrong in some way, because it doesn’t fit.”
This so true! Sometimes I wonder if sit-coms have actually done much more harm to families than any fundamentalist version of religion have ever done.
My own parents, while they have learned and changed a lot after I grew up, were VERY much into this perfect nuclear sit-com family equals normal/standard/right, and anything that derivated too much from that was bad/dangerous/crazy. And they were strict atheists! They tolerated me having friends that didn’t fit that standard, and they had their own friends like that, but that again fits with the sit-com standard where there’s always one or two “wacky” friends, or neighbours, that the core family can laugh at but not BE themselves.
Fortunately, one of those sit-coms were the Addams Family, so I was allowed a certain amount of freedom, but as I look back at it now, it was definitively a syndicated sit-com-family I grew up with.
DAMNN!!!!
That was great!
DAAAAAAYYYYUMMMNNN
Looks like Joyce has a lot more strength!
*whistles*That’s gonna sting
His heads gonna ring;
And the ol’ internet in goin’ to sing
Of Joyce’s Fists of Fury.
FAAAAAAALCOOOOOOOON
PUUUUUUUNNNCH
*Explosion sound effects*
Joyce fights for her FRIENDS!!
*plays John Lennon’s “Instant Karma(‘s Gonna Get You)” on a beatbox off panel*
yessssssssssssssssssssssssssss
He gave you the strength to get FUCKING DECKED.
Get out, toedad.
DAWN CASTE. Essence Fever.
(seriously someone needs to photoshop the sunburst caste mark on Joyce’s forehead)
Hope you like MS Paint.
Thanks! 😀
Cool Exalt name, too. No Moon Dina = Seven Raptors Clever?
I’m not familiar with Lunar naming conventions; I’ve been avoiding fully immersing myself in the Realm in case I get a chance to play someday so I can learn as my character does.
There’s a canonical Lunar named Seven Devils Clever; that brought “clever girl” to mind and here we are.
And here Joyce always thought she was a Zenith. XD
Either way it’s particularly amusing given that the Unconquered Sun is strongly hinted to be old-World-of-Darkness’s Lucifer. 😀
I HAVE WAITED SO LONG TO SEE HIM GET CLOBBERED
perfect name for the strip
FALCON PUNCH!!!!!
That last panel is one of the most satisfying things I’ve ever seen!
Sorry, butthole dad, I don’t think you’re the one God is giving strength to here.
Just count yourself lucky she didn’t use a glass.
And that Sarah was unavailable.
falcon pawnch
…take a punch?
No… leave a punch.
OHHHHHHHH SHITTTTT!!!!
I think Joyce may be ever so slightly done with his fucking bullshit. Maybe.
As we all are.
Understatement FTW!
Joyce would like to register a counterpoint to his argument.
And since he made HIS argument with a gun, her response is fitting.
kablam
GOD HAS GIVEN YOU A GLASS JAW, MOTHERFRICKER!
God has given him the strength to get knocked the fuck out!
Actually, this reminds me of the time my first wife decked me. One hell of an uppercut that started around her knees, and took me a couple of inches off the ground.
Guys, never make fun of your wives.
Assuming there was a legit reason behind this, why exactly did this happen? /curiousity
Jesus Fucking Christ what the hell warranted that?
I can think of exactly one thing–trash-talk during some sort of consensual bout in a gym ring. Otherwise… yeesh.
Same thing. Or during Tae Kwon Do or some similar martial art sparring.
It isn’t always warranted. People can be touchy.
My dad still has a dent in his skull from my mother smacking him in the head with an encyclopedia because she mistakenly thought he wasn’t paying attention while she was talking, and she’s threatened to call the police on me for “assaulting” her for so much as blocking swings or twisting her fingers off of my throat.
…In retrospect, that makes my tastes in women vaguely Oedipal. Ugh.
Good god, that’s terrible.
Short form: argument that turned funny, led to me teasing her in a way to make her mad, followed by my mocking her as a short-arse who didn’t know how to punch.
She didn’t. And still decked me anyway. It was deserved, in my opinion…and was funny as hell to me, despite the sore jaw. I’ve been on the receiving end of female wrath in much more serious circumstances (including a run-in with a bipolar drunk who left me with three fingernail slashes down one cheek — I was the lucky one; she glassed another bloke. Wife of a pub owner in Rathkeale, Ireland, out for an evening’s riot in somebody else’s pub.)
Hahaha I can make fun of my wife all I want, because I’m positive she’ll never exist.
(second hand observation from real-life tm)
Ha, you knew that I was an (select one = idiot-geek-horriblepunster-oblivious-absentminded-nogoodatrememebringdates) and you married me anyways.
Not toeday, Ross.
Not toeday.
*slowly laughs herself into hyperventliation*
Here, have an Internet.
Oh yeah! WHO’S been given the strength, Toeboy?
Next up, in Dumbing of Age: Joyce Brown & her Righteous Fists of Fury vs Toe Dad & his Righteous Fists of Fury (and possibly a gun too)
I think the gun is on the side of the highway about a quarter mile back.
Good point – at this point, they outnumber Toe Dad, so hopefully he’ll realize his disadvantage and the situation won’t continue escalating.
He’s up against four girls. I doubt they scare him, though they should.
Yeah, for serious. Of the three girls Becky’s got for backup here, one of them smashed a glass in the face of the last guy to fuck with her, one of them held up a convenience store with a knife, and the last beat her own father senseless last weekend and stabbed the aforementioned convenience store robber with her own knife.
Don’t fuck with third floor Clark Wing. They will cut you.
Quite literally, in fact.
And that last one’s father who was beaten senseless was both over five foot two and an actual mob associate. This might be little Rossie’s first time doing anything the police could take him in for on the spot if they saw. I’d both leave that gun where it is and stick to words if I were him.
And the former convenience store robber is going to be the voice of reason here!
The Lord has delivered him unto his enemies. Also, I told you the SEMME training had kicked in.
The problem with that theory is that I’m pretty sure “SEMME training” is an oxymoron.
Sorry, Toedad, looks like God’s given that strength to Joyce now.
I hope Joyce hasn’t hurt her hand.
Someone’s toe got hurt.
Looks like she went for the jaw. Good place to hit overall, because I think it’s like…ten pounds of pressure to the jaw will incapacitate a person? Not so good for your own knuckles. This sort of hit would probably not only split her knuckles, but bruise them, especially since she likely hasn’t been trained in that way to toughen them up. Worst case, a boxer’s break or a dislocated knuckle. Either way, she’ll heal up alright, and Toedad will still have been knocked flat on his ass by a five-foot-nothing, Twilight-loving, sweater-wearing, piece of fluff like Joyce.
Which probably goes to show that there is a God in DOA universe.
Joyce can’t watch Twilight. It revolves around Edward and doesn’t admit to the presence of a God Almighty.
Otherwise your perfectly right.
She said twilight was her favorite movie!
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-1/04-the-bechdel-test/movies/
If you go allllllllllllllll the way back to when it showed Joyce and everyone in their gender studies class (now years ago in our time), we see that Joyce has read/watched/enjoyed Twilight at some point. Leslie was saying something about Twilight actually passed the Bechdel Test and Joyce was being smug. I have seen it touted as an “acceptable” book in the fantasy genre for her flavor of Christian before, because of the whole “Bella and Edward waiting until they’re married, gender roles, etc”.
Hopefully, she grows out of thinking that’s an example of a healthy relationship.
Seriously though, even if she gets a full boxer’s break (which hurts like a mofo), totally worth it.
Can confirm that being the angle it was presented to me by my superconservative family. If Willis ever shows Joyce try to explain that “Twilight is actually secretly about abstinence” angle to her friends the way I did, though, we will have Gravatars for DAYS. xD
I would love to see Joyce’s faces as someone (Dorothy maybe?) explains to her how Twilight is actually about romanticising stalkers and abusive relationships.
Joyce: But…but, in the movie– Edwards parents have that wall full of crosses! So, that means… something, riiiight?
Eh. I feel like Dorothy would just be too…delicate. Sarah or Billie, or even Dina, would probably be able to explain it in much clearer terms, because Sarah and Billie would just be legit, “He sneaked into her room and watched her sleep, are you fucking kidding me?” whereas Dina would list off the checklist of an abusive relationship, where Edward pretttty much ticks all the boxes, in a very logical way.
Dorothy is great, but she would try to spare Joyce’s feelings. Sarah and Billie would have no such qualms, both out of fear Joyce would walk right into that sort of relationship and see it as romantic. (That is to say, Billie is a bit self-centered and ridiculous, but if anyone put their hands on Joyce [or any girl] that way, they’d be picking up their teeth after she found out)
Have you forgotten the nature of Billie’s own relationship? Edward and Bella ain’t got nothing on her and Ruth.
Hm, good point.
Twilight isn’t about abusive relationships. They’re in it, but that’s not what it’s about.
Twilight is about Stephanie Meyer lying to her romantic partner that saving the chat logs from all the Yahoo chat rooms she RPed in was book research in a collaborative writing set up instead of being cybersex and melodramatic online relationships she had when she was 16.
^^^^ That…and Stephanie Meyer displaying her utter lack of understanding of the traditional fictional concept of Vampires. Sparkle in the sunlight…really? I like the alternate ending: Buffy stakes Edward. The end.
I’ll agree it’s about both those things.
Er, Twilight’s got an almighty god – vampirehood is basically becoming a mormon.
The way she formed a fist, she likely broke her thumb.
You’d be surprised at how durable your thumb really is. Yes, in all likelihood, she has busted it somehow, but I’ve seen people walk away with “mere” heavy bruising and a lot of swelling. And when I say mere, I actually mean “Are you sure it’s not broken?” “X-ray says it isn’t.”
Yeah, I figure the next panel will be Joyce clutching her hand saying, “Goddamn that hurt.” In this universe, she’s not used to punching out people and of course she doesn’t … never mind, the rest of the sentence would be spoiler material.
At this point her adrenaline is pumping so hard she might /not/ actually feel it for awhile.
Nothing can hurt Joyce anymore.
Ehh, in my experience, once the adrenaline has worn off, stuff like this actually hurts way worse, because you didn’t remember to ice it/take painkillers. Not to mention the pain she’s going to be feeling from the Epic Amazigirl Catch that definitely jolted the bike (which was moving at a very high speed). Joyce is going to be sore everywhere tomorrow morning.
Twist, joyce is secretly a cyborg. It all makes sense.
But it hurts so good……
Probably has, people who aren’t trained to fight inevitably bruise or even crack a few bones the first time they actually punch someone. The hand is actually pretty fragile, given its complicated construction and all that.
What I find fascinating is recent studies that seem to show that we evolved the ability to both throw and take punches fairly early, like around a million years or so ago. Other apes can’t even form proper fists, but our hands, while also being way more dexterous than those of other primates, also can form fists and when we hit something (with our wrists straight, so properly), the bones in the back of our hands actually flex slightly, transferring the force of the blow to our arm bones, which of course are much larger and tougher and more able to absorb it.
The really fascinating part is that right around the time we started being able to actually throw punches, our faces also started to become more buttressed and better able to take a hit. And although even the average woman’s face is more reinforced and better able to take a hit than those of even male great apes, human males’ faces are more reinforced than females, and the extra reinforcing is in places in the facial structure that show gender-based morphology.
So we’ve been evolving to throw and (especially guys) take punches for, like, a million years or so. We are way, way, way better at it than other primates, even though they have more muscle strength.
Fascinating!
–Joyce will never be the one to say it, but, “Here! Have a million years of evolution to the face, asshole!”
God gave someone strength, and it wasn’t Ross.
YES! YES! YES! YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!
..take a punch?
Obviously not, no.
IN THE FAAAAAAAACEE
Where’s your God-given strength now Ross, huh?
It’s is in Joyce. You can see it in those angry deep arctic ice blue eyes. So cold.
YASS
God gave Joyce a mean right hook! 😉
Good things from this: We get to see Toedad hurt, we get to see Joyce punch an asshole, Becky will probably stay, and people will be happy.
BAd things that’ll probably come: Becky’s relationship is probably going to be weird…
Sooooo, amazing first date. Sorry about my dad nearly murdering you in the treeline. Also, my attraction to Joyce may have peaked through the roof after she decked him in front of me. Anyways, you still up for Date Night Number 2?
Why? I’m sure at this point, becky would 100% agree he had that coming.
You forgot how this is gunna touch off crazy drama back at Becky’s folks.
Joyce’s folks. Fuck, I’m getting dozy.
Her folks find out and try to pull her out of college or threaten to cut off the money if she doesn’t quit because ‘the people there are corrupting her’
Quite probable.
Toedad I think there was a miscommunication on who God gave the Superman strength here.
Never underestimate the strength contained in a short person when they’re angry.
Though she is but little, she is fierce!
Amazi-Girl to Joyce, days ago: “I’m gonna let you in on a little secret. It’s called a low center of gravity….”
TINY THUNDER!
-First Attack!
2000 pts.
The only strength God has given Ross is the strength to stand after apparently getting his legs mangled like that.
They’re only a little sliced up. They bled plenty, but it’s already congealing – the shrapnel still stuck there probably helps stem the flow a little.
There might be worse damage we don’t see, like fractures, but I wouldn’t call them mangled. Though if it were ground up, he wouldn’t be the first terrible dad in webcomics to lose a limb after his own stupidity got it torn to shreds.
Please link one of those comics, I need to see more idiot gore.
Just off the top of my head. I’ll rack my brains for more later, but we’ll probably have a new page before then.
Can Becky’s dad be charged with attempted kidnapping/abduction (or… actual, I guess, bc he forced her into the car w/a gun even if they didn’t get too far)? Is she a legal adult? What are her rights, and which of them has he violated? IDK if this has been touched on in previous comments, sorry. & I know this isn’t a super realistic strip that’s going to get bogged down in legal details. But I’m really curious as to what recourse Becky has, especially since she’s probably 18 and thus a legal adult.
Becky is an adult, so it’s not like she can be forced to go with him.
Besides, he did sort of kidnap her at gunpoint.
I dunno, someone else can probably explain it in more detail than I can.
She is 18, so yes. Although people will probably answer you here anyway, you might want to ctrl+F kidnapping on the last bunch of strips because people have gone into detail on a lot of ways to interpret it.
Even without the kidnapping charges, Toedad’ll be in a lot of trouble after waving a gun around and firing it on a university campus.
she is a legal adult and this is abduction. but even if she were under 18 there are a lot of states that allow teenagers to separate themselves from their family and more out at 16. and theres plenty of precidents for saying a parent can abduct their own child from another parent / guardian. taking her from any current living arrangements could probably bea argued pretty easily. the tricky part is that shes not living at the school / with her friends legally but squatting. the school might make that argument a little more complicated?
even if he didnt get brought up on kidnapping though this is a pretty clear case of abuse and reckless endangerment at the least. like even ignoring all the gun and death threat shit, just this business of leaning out of a car at high speeds on a busy highway ought to be enough to get her out of his custody
Leaning out of a moving car with a loaded gun, no less.
Completely relinquishing control of the car on a busy highway to lean out the window with a loaded gun, so apparently with intent to commit murder (especially after that “send them to Hell” comment that 911 would have recorded) is going to get him into a shit-load of trouble right there, even without not only waving around, but actually firing off a rifle on campus. I mean, bad enough when he’s the passenger, but he was the driver.
He out-and-out assaulted Dina; he out-and-out kidnapped a legal adult at gunpoint; he fired a gun in public; he relinquished control of a vehicle to apparently attempt to murder a would-be rescuer–they are going to throw the book at him. I imagine that at this point, they will also hit him with multiple charges of running stop signs, because they will want to hit this asshole with eeeeeverything. And that’s assuming he survives the cops showing up in about three, two, one…
But the charge he really needs to worry about is driving without a seat belt.
He assaulted not just Dina, but, at minimum, Becky, Joyce, and Amber as well, and if I were charging him, I’d probably throw in Sayid and everyone else at the fountain, too. Might not stick, but it’s worth a shot.
Also battery against Dina. And depending on what happened after we cut away from the woods, there might be other charges. We know from preview panels that she’s not seriously injured, but we still haven’t ruled out her being duct taped in the trunk or in the woods, which would be unlawful restraint and maybe another kidnapping charge.
Bringing the gun onto IU campus is not actually against the law, just IU rules, but might turn his being there into criminal trespass.
And I don’t even know how you’d charge the climbing out the window of a moving vehicle that he was supposed to be driving jackassery, but if I were trying him, I’d be trying to figure out a way to give him the death penalty just for that just on general principles. “Being too stupid to live, seriously, how has this guy not just forgotten to breathe” is not actually a crime, however.
Butthole dad has committed a whole pile of felonies, and should be going to prison for years and years now.
Despite rumors to the contrary, violence solves LOTS of things.
yes….. yes it can. it is sad it can/has to sometimes but it can solve problems. I think it got touched on pretty well in another webcomic i like (perm hiatus sadly) called better days.
it has a sequel.
“Oh balls.”
As Einstein said, “Violence sometimes may have cleared away obstructions quickly, but it never has proved itself creative.” ToeHole is a serious obstruction, and needs to be cleared fast. Becky has other problems (longer-term housing, food, etc.) and violence won’t solve any of them. Like most issues in the world, those will need creative solutions involving support from the people around her.
(In other words, that’s how a practicing Quaker juggles general pacifism with the obvious YOU GO JOYCE! reaction here.)
“Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor, and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst.”
I need to read that book. The movie’s fun, but doesn’t really go into the meaningful parts.
Ahhhh. Starship Troopers. Good times.
THERE’S A MOVIE?!?! HOW DID I NOT KNOW THIS!?
Because it, and the sequels, are aweful. Stick to the book.
Because it’s like The Never Ending Story, the movie is okay, not great, but the sequels get worse and worse.
JOYCE SMASH!!!!
This comment was inevitable, and I appreciate that.
ROSS SCREAM!
In a surprise twist of fate, Joyce is the most horribly injured (excluding Toedad) because she doesn’t know how to punch properly and fractured her hand on his jaw. It is her that we follow to the hospital and nobody else.
Nah, the punch threw ToeDad on the road and he got hit by a car.
Naw, man, the semi totally turned around to make sure everyone was okay, and ToeDad gets hit by that truck.
I wonder if Sal will get Amazi-girl to “safety” before authorities arrives.
I’m not sure she’d have a reason to.
She does, the biggest and most important motivator that she’s got: She hates the authorities and, no matter how much she despises Amazi-Girl, she despises them more.
Plus, I don’t think Sal is maliciously against her. She thinks she’s dumb, but I doubt she thinks she should be ‘punished’ beyond the direct consequences (injury, seeing she failed).
Amazi-Girl failed? She went over the top but Sal didn’t have any options other than follow and alert police if she wasn’t going to go where Amazi-Girl did…
I don’t think she failed, but I think finding out she fell off, passed out, and left Joyce and Sal (innocent and nemesis) to solve the situation will count as failure to her, and I imagine Sal agrees, if not for the same reasons (based on yesterday).
I think the end of that sentence is “to get my damn face smashed in.”
Nice good punching stance from Joyce there. She’s got her fist with the inside facing up, not toward her as some novices might do. Only mistake is she’s about to fall over for lifting her foot up during the follow through.
She looked it up on the Internet.
BIFF
*heart eyes emoji*
♡ω♡
She probably just punched him in the face. Don’t be surprised if she just broke her hand or something.
especially since she had the whole momentum from running toward Becky.
“Refunneled?”
Y’know, God gave strength that was originally going to Toedad and funneled it to Joyce instead.
Oh !
Apparently god has given you the strength to die of waif-fu.
Sure, now that the gun’s history and he’s donating blood to the pavement, NOW he’s all ready to do the talky thing.
Pity for him that Joyce is all done talking.
(Would it be nitpicky to point out Becky is on the wrong side of Joyce in the last panel?)
must’ve punched so hard she did a 180
Looking at all the comments about how little Joyce has knocked big Ross flying, I’m interpreting this as Ross having some momentum coming for Joyce and she sidestepped as she punched.
And with a well timed punch and Toedad’s glass jaw, the Indiana Holy War came to a close.
You serious? With the shitstorm this will bring from Joyce’s folks and with her sister about to emerge from the closet… the show’s only starting.
So it’s more like “the punch heard around the Bible Belt”.
“And it comes to all in time, boys. For on the day they died, boys, God…was on the other side, boys.”
That last panel looks like the toenail has broken off. Ow.
i hope she doesn’t apologize or say it was wrong at any point in the future because of family pressure.
“I’m sorry… SORRY YOU’RE AN ASSTOE” snapsnapsnap
Hahahaha! +1 xD
Go Joyce! Stub that toe!
She got so pissed she temporarily fazed dimensions together giving her the strength of walkyverse Joyce
I dunno man. God must be giving him strength because I was very sure that his legs were fucked up.
Leg Day, unfortunately for Ross, was Sunday.
Comments flying fast and furious… Gentleman, Ladies, Gender-queer folk, and those who just plain don’t want to conform to society’s norms and expectations (like myself), we may well break the record for most comments on a strip.
Not by a LONG shot. It’s been up nearly four hours, and we haven’t even broken 500, let alone reached multi-thousands.
*sniff* Sal Buscema would be so proud
“And the Lord did say: ‘Sweet Mother of Me, I’m tired of hearing that guy talk. Let there be a Sal Buscema punch.
“And there was. And it was good.”
JOYCE!
We keep our feet on the *ground* when we punch! More leverage behind it, right? Strong foundations and all that.
Hey now. Judging by how he went flying if she had more leverage he’d be dead.
And we punch from the shoulder. More power that way.
Power comes from the hips.
This guy knows it.
Maybe no. I think she was in motion through the whole sequence. Puts the whole momentum of running into that punch.
And this time stay down, you massive bastard.
in before Joyce has to go to the hospital for a broken finger because she doesn’t know how to throw a punch
Thus always to tyrants.
Nice starting position and a great follow through.
I thought Joyce would abuse Ross verbally, not physically. But yes, she brought it up from the ground with plenty of follow through. Ross will be feeling that one for a good while.
God has given you bloody noodles where your legs should be. Lie down and wait for medical attention if you know what’s good for you.
Panel 4 is the most cathartic thing in ever
Wait until you see the eventual reckoning with Ryan.
GO JOYCE GO! ToeDad is down and OUT!
Now where is Dina?!?!?!
He is down. Whether he is out remains to be seen.
in line buying tickets to the Good Dinosaur for all the people who helped get Becky back.
And of course, he had to throw in a snide dismissal due to age. Because there is no way in which that turd-blossom isn’t an asshole. Just full on, oh hey there, little girl, you couldn’t possibly understand the super important adult man things I’m doing here, so you just run along now. What. A. Dick.
It heavily reminds me of two different ex friends of mine, although they were less scary because they had no power over anyone but maybe more obnoxious because they were peers.
(one was a ‘you just can’t understand, children’ type and the other a ‘listen to men they’re more logical you should try to be like that’)
Watch now as he flies into utterly impotent rage at the fact that no one is buying into his BS.
And if he tries anything, let’s not forget that Sal is nearby, and could probably have taken ross back before he into a car wreck, then knocked on his ass.
I can totally see him standing up only to get thumped again and again before he finally sits the fuck down.
Sal could go all Akira Clown gang on him. Y’know, the wheel to face thing.
that thing
On the bright side, this made him completely underestimate her ability to knock his ass to the ground.
To be fair it kinda IS hard to understand the whole pointing-a-gun-at-my-daughter-but-that-actually-mean-I’m-saving-her-thing. For the uninitiated it just looks like horrible abuse.
…yeah, I meant that to be flippant but I think I just correctly described his world view.
The differences are subtle, admittedly, abuse is something bad that probably foreigny or non-white types do to their children, whereas he was correcting a horrible grievous error in his Godly property and showing how strong and manly he was in the process. You can tell the difference largely due to how white and proper Christian he is and…
Dear Bob, I spent way too many years around that subculture. A bunch of racist “oh those types hitting their wives and children. What? Bill? No, they’re just having problems and you know how much of a handful Clarice is, but they are working it out to save the family with the pastor.”
> abuse is something bad that probably foreigny or non-white types do to their children
> A bunch of racist “oh those types hitting their wives and children
and from this rose the barbaric practices act/[attempted] hotline (it’s a hotline because you can’t call 911 on your neighbour for being Muslim), if you didn’t see all the garbage Canada went through this year (or if you missed that between the rest of the garbage)
And Sal thought Amazi-girl was gonna escalate the situation.
Now… FINISH HIM!
After shots literally being fired and a car crashed, a punch is actually closer to de-escalation than it is to escalation. XD
Wow!Go Joyce!
todays been a lot of firsts for Joyce and I couldn’t be happier~
One!
Two!
Three!
Four!
Five!
Six!
Seven!
Eight!
Nine!
Ten!
DING!!! DING!!! DING!!! DING!!! DING!!!
The winner, and neeeeeeewwwww CHAMPION
JOOOOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYCCCCCCCEEEEEEEEE
BROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just like Joyce, Becky has a mouth that’s a portal to a dimension of white.
It’s contagious. She caught it when she kissed Joyce.
Then soon, Dina…
“Cough soggies cough”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08yO7DDJccc
This strip is awesome!
God had given Joyce the strength to protect Becky from Toedad.
Seriously, he must have. There’s no other way Joyce would have been able to send him flying like that.
Adrenaline? Secretly working out? Alien powers?
Joyce having alien powers? That’s just crazy.
The fact that he’d probably have fallen over again if she didn’t krump him.?
Seriously? Ross had half his body out the window of a moving car when flipped over. He shouldn’t be alive, let alone standing.
Well, he’s not standing now…
He probably fell out before it flipped (thus the distance from the car yesterday), but yeah, he ain’t now.
Joyce, you are a certified badass!!!
Oh wait wait wait I got something perfect for this :https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0yK4lxBarpE
hahahahahahaha
oh man
okay seriously where is todays comic
Let’s assume that Toedad is around 5’6″, given how he’s been drawing in strips and how he’s been directly compared to Sal’s height. Not a tall man, but still taller than Joyce. Given his body shape, he’s probably got a lot of muscle and a low body fat percentage, which means he’s going to be built like a solid brick made out of smaller bricks. Doing some research, it’s reasonable to hazard a guess that he is somewhere around 160 lbs, probably a bit more. Point, is, he’s not exactly a light dude.
And Joyce punched him with enough force to send him flying.
Goddamn, no wonder Willis put her in the SEMME homage outfit this arc.
It also looks like he’s struggling to stand in the first panel.
That body type in a 5’6″ person would be pushing closer to 200 pounds. I’m 5’8″ with no where near that shape and I’m like 180.
Fair enough. I’m a scrawny thing, so I have no idea how muscles work.
Still, that makes it more impressive. Don’t fuck with Joyce Brown’s friends.
My husband, who is around 5’6″ tall, has a very stocky body build with big muscular arms and broad shoulders, and apparently he looked emaciated at the one point that he was around 160 pounds in college. He’s around 245 currently. My husband’s build has more of a stomach than Becky’s Dad (granted, he could stand to lose a few pounds), so I’d really put Becky’s Dad over 200 pounds, probably closer to 220. Becky’s Dad is probably heavier than he looks. Everyone underestimates my husband’s weight when they go by just looking at him.
Highly doubt he went flying. Perspective and artistic license, etc. But the punch was enough to send him to the ground.
The average woman these days weighs over 160 pounds. Toedad definitely weighs more than that.
If he’s much less than 200 lbs, I would be shocked. 160 is nothing for a guy built like that; he’d have to be like four feet nothing. My dog is 100 lbs, and he’s a retriever. There’s gotta be the mass equivalent of at least two retrievers there. Plus he’s only slightly shorter and is wider than my husband, and he’s almost 200 (and military, so not all fat).
To add to the pile, I wrestled in high school (and for those who might’ve caught on somewhere that I’m a chick we didn’t have a chick wrestling team so I was on the guys’ team) and most of our guys were short (5’8″-ish) and we had a lot of dudes in the 152/160 lb weight classes and none of them had Toedad’s build. So more evidence to agree with everyone else who’s said even at 5’6″ Toedad should be at least 200 lbs, if not over.
Shawn L. made a good point in another comment further down the page. What we’re seeing isn’t Toedad flying through the air, but struck hard enough to fall down, seen here from a low, ground level camera angle. It is conceivable that his feet didn’t actually rise into the air until the moment his fact hit the dirt.
What did Sal say about not escalating the situation?
I notice, pointedly, that she’s not intervening at all here. Sal knows what’s up.
He approached her in a threatening stance with his arm reaching towards her, at that point it’s self defense.
That, and he basically threatened to murder her with a loaded rifle. You don’t exactly need a crack legal team to sort this one out.
Geeettttttt dunked on!!!
If you’re really doing God’s work, you won’t come back.
Damn. That is ludicrously appropriate considering both Ross and Joyce are running on newfound determination.
For me, this is the second most satisfying punch thrown in this strip. Amber’s critical hit on Blaine right in the smug still reigns supreme.
That’s fair. At least Toe Dad thinks he’s helping. Blaine was 100% malevolent and knew it
That, and Amber/Amazi-girl are capable of a certain malice that Joyce is above. Rightous fury is great, but there’s something even more satisfying about the enjoyment of throwing a punch.
The fact that he thinks this is doing good makes him more of an asshole than Blaine to my eyes.
I think both of them (and Ryan) need to be set on fire. Kinda like the “how much does the semi weigh?” “After a certain amount of weight a ton or two more is irrelevant” comments from yesterday (day before?), after a certain level of being a worthless piece of garbage asshole douchebag they are all the same.
Yeah!
Man I missed Joyce who could kick ass.
Just hope you didn’t punch him to his weapon. and I hope Sal is behind you ready to properly shut him down.
Also hope Amazigirl won’t see Sal realize and go rage.
I imagine Amazigirl’s too worn out and too occupied with Joyce and Becky’s wellbeing to be giving it too much thought at the moment.
Speaking of, whose weapon is that going to be, legally, when all this is over? I assume the police confiscate it, but after felonies like Ross has been comitting like he’s going for a hat trick, I can’t imagine he’ll get it back. Is there a system in place for the resale of confiscated firearms, or would it just sit in evidence lockup indefinitely? I don’t really see it passing into Becky’s hands; if Ross forfeited it by the severity of his crimes, then it seems it’d be forfeited to the state, not his heir.
The police will sell a lot of things that have been confiscated for criminal reasons when they’re done with them, but I doubt weapons are in there. I don’t know how licensing works in the States (you guys don’t seem to require licenses to possess firearms, just for hunting) but I’d be willing to bet that even if licenses are required, Becky doesn’t have one, so they couldn’t hand it off to her. Plus, Ross is still alive (for now, at least) so she couldn’t claim it as part of his estate, assuming she even for some reason wants to have the gun her Dad tried to kidnap her and threatened to kill her friends with; I wouldn’t.
Pretty sure when the cops are done with weapons that they’ve confiscated for being involved in a crime, they then destroy them. At least, I’m pretty sure they do in Canada.
Pretty sure here in America they stay in evidence forever unless they’re needed for undercover ops, like “I’m not a cop I’m actually a drug dealer/hitman/pimp/whatever, look at my gun!” or “I’m not a cop I’m a black market weapons dealer, see my large array of questionably-acquired merchandise?”
Depends on the state. In AZ it’s illegal to destroy functional, safe firearms. Police must hold or sell them. Most police that I’ve heard on this subject prefer to destroy guns, for safety and avoiding the hassle involved in setting up gun sales. Personally I find it ridiculous not to let the police dispose of fire arms as they wish, especially as guns are very easy to get in this state. Still Toedad’s rifle impacted the ground at speeds so I think it’s nonfunctional
BLESS YOU WILLIS.
Sorry, but I still call BS. This feels too easy. Joyce isn’t that strong. And although she has learned a lot about the real world and real people in the last few weeks, I can’t help but expect her 18 years of indoctrination to keep her from so abruptly trying to knock out an adult who she’s probably known much of her life, since she and Becky were homeschool buddies as kids.
Why can I not enjoy happy things?
Joyce doesn’t have to be that strong. The man just survived a car crash without a seatbelt. Flew straight out of the vehicle and skidded across the concrete. It’s a miracle the guy’s even standing. He’s in no shape to be trading blows with anybody.
His leg is wobbling. Honestly, he didn’t need much to topple right back over. And Joyce is pumped on adrenaline and fury, and might be full on in a fight mode of trauma response (so, yeah, Sal or somebody might want to pull her back so she doesn’t actually end up killing him), so she’s definitely going to be humming more than usual. Not enough to send him flying, but definitely enough to do the equivalent of her glass to the face with Ryan.
great attention to detail, cerberus, I missed those wiggles
KNEES WEAK, ARMS ARE HEAVY.
Something something something MOM’S SPAGHETTI.
(Sorry. Not sorry)
But to answer your question, you can’t enjoy happy things because you’ve been over socialized – so that you can be controlled better.
Let me help you enjoy it, then. Joyce hit him running. Her lower center of gravity and his wobbly legs meant that most of her momentum was transferred to his body at the moment of the punch. Also, you are sort of falling victim to the perspective of the extreme close=up to Toedad. I imagine tomorrow you will find that he will land no more than a handful of feet away from Joyce, which is not much farther than he would land if he simply fell over on his own.
Feel better?
I disagree. First off, Ross was just flung out of a crashing car, so he’s shaky enough to be knocked down with a decent hit. No matter how tough you are, you wouldn’t be walking away from that crash without feeling weak and sustaining injuries.
Secondly, it’s not all about how physically strong you are. Look at Joyce in the last panel. She looks a lot like this picture. She threw her body into that punch, kinetic energy traveling from foot to fist, giving her the extra force to knock Toedad, who we’ve already established does not have good footing, onto the ground.
Thirdly, that point is moot unless you’ve been through 18 years of indoctrination. I wouldn’t be able to say anything on it either. Anyone with experience want to weigh in on that?
So, aside from the third point, I think Joyce punching Toedad is very realistic. She’s had her best friend taken away from her by someone who wholly believes he can “fix” her, similar to how Joyce had tried to “fix” Ethan, except through more violent means.
This is Joyce facing herself, seeing her own shitty actions, and stepping up to solidify her belief that there is absolutely nothing wrong with Becky, or Ethan, or anyone who is gay.
Weighing in on the indoctrination bit. I was raised with fairly strict ideas about the role of the child (especially a girl) in a situation that ….often wasn’t pretty. It is absolutely possible to summon the strength and fury to send an adult flying when you’re feeling furious, terrified, and betrayed -and it seems to be a pretty safe bet to say that Joyce is feeling all of those things -and that the motorcycle ride and flying Amber have probably given her an extra adrenaline boost.
That would also fit what we’ve seen in Joyce. The last time she was betrayed by someone who wore the trapping of her culture, she similarly went ape-shit and probably would have kept going if the drug hadn’t kicked in.
I get what you’re trying to say about it being unlikely that Joyce would punch Ross given how she grew up knowing him etc, but I think all that went away when he pulled out a gun and actually pointed it at his own daughter. Even without that being the case, right in this moment, the only thing Joyce could think about was getting to Becky, so when Ross put himself between them, she most likely punched him out of pure instinct, without any conscious thought about it.
I think she was very conscious of what she was doing. And derived great satisfaction from it, I hope.
Reminds me of Hermione blasting Snape in Prisoner of Azkaban. She was badass in the moment, but afterwards was hyperventilating over hitting a teacher.
Take the righteous anger/indignation of Joyce.
Mix with a dirtbag who is already battered, shook up, and undoubtedly not at 100% peak peformance.
Now add the element of surprise (of all people, Joyce is probably the last person Ross would believe capable of physical violence).
Result — ToeDad flat on his kiester.
To add to everybody’s reply, Joyce IS the youngest simbling of four older brothers. It is full believable that she learned hot to correctly punch someone square in the jaw from one of them.
I know I have taught my younger sister to knock someone out in case she ever needs to.
Finally somebody brings this up so I don’t have to. Pretty sure she stated in-comic that she knows how to fight/throw a punch exactly because of this (sorry, can’t be arsed to find the comic to link to).
When I was 17 and about 126 lbs soaking wet (so a loong time ago 😛 ), I got in a snowmobile accident and broke my arm. I then, by myself, with a concussion and a broken arm, flipped the 300 lb snowmobile the right way up again.
Adrenaline is fucking amazing, yo. Even without his legs being as wibbly as they seem to be, I have no problem whatsoever believing that with as much adrenaline as will be pumping through Joyce right now, that she was able to send him flying. None at all.
Can the next strip just be Joyce going Full Amber on toedad please.
Why just Joyce? It isn’t like the others don’t have a bone to pick with him. Frankly, I’d be fine with the next couple weeks just being new characters showing up at the scene and punching him.
That scene in “Airplane!”… everyone taking turns to slap the hysterical woman.
And now I want to see Maggie getting in the line to punch Ross. Because why not?
Speaking of bone to pick, I hope we find out more about what happened to Dina soon.
MIKE.
Really? Nobody? Okay then:
FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACCCCCEEEEEEEEEEE!
FISTS
OF
FURY
YEEEEES
Joyce used Righteous Fury!
It’s super effective!
She didn’t assault and batter him; she defended herself from his attack. We all saw it.
He threatened her with a gun! … (ten minutes ago). Totally counts!
He’s still in the process of kidnapping. He’s still committing a felony. At this point, force is justified, not just to keep him from succeeding, but to detain him for the cops.
He did make a threatening move toward her, hand outstretched, as if to grab her. It’s completely fair game.
I’m not sure how it works in court, but he was also STILL attempting to keep help from reaching Becky, his kidnapping victim. There’s probably some good Samaritan law about that sort of thing.
By the might of Samson, she hath smited thee!
She hath struck thee down with great wrath, and thou shalt know that she is the LORD!
And you will know her name is the Protagonist when she lays her vengeance upon thee!
UN-DAMN YOU WILLIS
*eye twitch*
That’s my name…
Its been revoked.
Joyce learned Kaio-Ken!
Kaio-what now?
Goku’s power up maneuver learned fro King Kai eeeeeearly in Dragon Ball Z.
http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Kaio-ken
MaximumZero’s quoting a recurring line from DBZ Abridged (a web video parody, give it a go if you really like DBZ, it is hilarious)
“No, seriously, Kaio-what?”
“Kaio-crap!”
“That’s what I thought”
^^ (could not stop quoting that throughout the latest DBZ Kai ep)
Sorry toedad, God’s doling out strength, and unfortunately for you Joyce is first in line
i just lost a family member and i really needed this, thank you.
My condolences.
I’m sorry for your loss.
Condolences and sympathy.
I’m glad this came along for you when it did.
So sorry to hear of your loss. Hopefully this continues for a while and keeps helping a bit.
HELL YEAH, GO JOYCE! PUNCH THAT SUCKER RIGHT IN THE TOE!
Ok so he didn’t have broken legs like I thought last strip but at least he punched in his fucking face. That’s good enough for me.
God himself couldn’t give you enough strength to overcome a well-and-truly pissed Joyce.
Partially because he’s giving Joyce that strength. Not for her character. For her fists.
“…and I would warn God himself not to get in the way.”
I can tell you with no ego, this is my finest sword. If on your journey, you should encounter God, God will be cut.
FATALITY.
Damn. New favorite panel. 🙂
Holy shit, Joyce is full of surprises.
Joyce has the strength of ten because her heart is pure.
“the strength to”
Get knocked out by a 98lb girl.
KICK THAT VERMIN WHILE HE’S DOWN!
http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/996/122/0cb.gif
Joyce just sucker punched her way back into the top slot in my heart.
Your fist has touched my heart~
Sucker Punch? There’s no way he didn’t see that coming. He just didn’t believe it was happening.
Joyce I think it’s safe to say that you have now officially graduated from Jr.Rebel to Rebel of badassness, your training is now complete.
ROCKETTO PUNCH!!!!!!
KO!!! You WIN!
This was all I was hoping for. A satisfying punishment for the villain. Hopefully there’s more.
well shit, i’m not sure what i was expecting but that was not it. kinda surprised idiotoedad continued with his idiotic religious spiel in spite of nearly being killed because he got out of the drivers seat through a window of a moving vehicle to shoot a person on the roof of his car. but hey. that’s your brain on religion, folks. endangering yourself and your children because you think you’re right.
in other news, i really hope joyce didn’t just break her hand/wrist/forearm cuz that would suck.
Scars of battle, wear them proudly Joyce.
Correction: that’s your brain on crazy.
The radical fundamentalism certainly didn’t help, of course.
No, amazi-girl is crazy. He’s just an incredible asshole.
when fundamentalists look like that there’s something wrong with their fundamentals. ain’t no fundamentalist secular humanist kidnapping people cuz they’re “unclean” or “broken” or the like. basically, this kind of crazy does not exist outside of the religious spectrum. worse still is when people point out that the religion is makin people crazy people like you go ahead and say “ain’t crazy cuz religious!” which is just not true, especially in instances like this. dude is literally monologue-ing about how god has given him the power to “fix” his daughter after literally kidnapping her at gunpoint. ain’t not much more obvious a situation of religiously inspired insanity than that.
I think I could hear the cheering from the fans an hour ago.
Gotta love Newton’s Laws. Specifically the first: “An object in motion will stay in motion unless acted upon by an outside force.” In this case, the object in motion is Joyce’s fist, and the outside force is it meeting Toedad’s jaw. But she’s got enough momentum from her running start, as well as good form and follow-through to continue in motion.
/slightly nerdy moment
There’s plenty of crazy all over the place if you poke around. Stalin was an atheist, but that didn’t stop him from murdering millions of people. Toedad isn’t even a real person, so his actions don’t make a real argument against religious fundamentalism.
The majority of the world’s people are religious, and most of them have never kidnapped any of their kids at gunpoint. Even the majority of fundies whose kids came out as gay probably haven’t kidnapped them at gunpoint.
(And for what it’s worth, I’m an atheist.)
That said, Toedad’s actions are definitely driven by a combination of personal inclination toward authoritarian violence and a particular brand of religious fundamentalism.
false equivocation. atheism isn’t a dogma. i’m not saying the world would be perfect without religion, i’m saying it would be better. yer still gonna get power hungry fucks but in no situation can a lack of belief in santa clause be a cause for murder (cuz that’s basically what you’re saying. everyone who doesn’t believe in santa is as bad as anyone who is the same and murdered someone). as for toedad not being a real person… well, that’s completely irrelevant. people in real life do worse than this guy has done.
and yet where religion rules, the place is infinitely worse off. saudi arabia? check fuck it, pretty much the entire middle east right now. the vatican? check. fuckin hell, the republicans of the USA are effectively the christian theocratic party now. the majority of the world’s religious people won’t kidnap their children, sure, but a good amount of them do, as well as killing their children via “exorcism” and the like (such as denying life saving blood transfusions) as well as promoting bigotry borne of the bible (cuz if you didn’t notice, that thing is absolutely filled to the brim with it). so, no. your thought process lacks the required knowledge to make any kind of noise on the issue.
your being an atheist is irrelevant. all it says is you don’t believe in any gods.
“god gives me the power” is all you need to hear. it’s really pretty cut and dry in this case.
Fundamentalists exist in all forms, not just religious. They just all seem somewhat religious, because they all ascribe themselves the sort of properties commonly ascribed to gods (knowing everything is a common one).
this is literally the subject i was trying to make obvious. if your fundamentalists act like toedad has then there is something clearly wrong with your fundamentals.
*waves*
Non-crazy religious person here, popping up to say “Religion doesn’t make bigots; it just makes bigots more obnoxiously self-righteous.” Or, as I’ve said many times before, institutional religion is basically a tribal structure (see also: political affiliations, sports teams), and that tends to bring out the worst kind of authoritarian gatekeepers.
incorrect on both accounts. religion makes people selectively insane and typically, especially in the three yahweh religions, promotes bigotry as well as misogyny. every single argument against reproductive health aids are religious. first term abortion? check. condoms? check. sexual education? checked in triplicate. i mean, shit, they’re still trying to promote abstinence-only as an effective educational platform. it doesn’t fucking work! plus, every single argument against the LGBT community: religious. all of them. when you teach people to be bigots do not fucking be surprised when they act like bigots.
sure, i get it, not every single religious person is a monster but honestly so many are it’s just not funny anymore. that said, religion by definition is selective insanity. if you’re not insane, you’re not actually religious.
I fear you may have confused American evangelicalism/fundamentalism with religion in general. Not that surprising, given that they make such a noise about being the only valid form of religion, but it’s ironic that you’ve swallowed their claims wholesale without bothering to educate yourself. Also, if you’re going to call someone else a bigot, probably best not to make sweeping negative value statements while you’re doing it.
Thanks for letting me know I’m insane by the way! I might never have known if not for your enlightened argument! 🙂
religion in general still makes you insane. sorry. granted, i might have a more hazy view of religious people in general, but the point still stands that being religious is effectively being selectively insane. at the same time, i’ll stop being a bigot when people stop murdering their children for religious reasons like denying blood transfusions, performing exorcisms, or otherwise exposing babies to probably contaminated water, as well as murdering people because they’re atheist/gay/different. i really really really hope that can happen one day soon but i honestly don’t see it ending in my lifetime. though, i suspect you will throw something like “what makes you better than them?” to which i have to point out i’m just a guy posting on the internet. i’m not out bombing churches or murdering people and/or children.
Yeah, that’s way to extreme.
I agree that the vast majority of people who are anti-LGBTQ and anti-sex & women and general are so because of religion, at least in the US, but that’s different than most religious people being anti-LGBTQ or anti-sex or anti-women. There’s a particular nasty strain of fundamentalism that pushes such things, but there’s a lot of religion that doesn’t.
And I say that as a long time atheist.
the major problem is that the “not fundamentalist” religious people produce the fundamentalist people eventually. when you tell kids there’s literally a magic man in the sky who wrote a rulebook for you to follow that if you don’t you go to a magic place where you will be tortured for an infinite amount of time it’s really not surprising when they take it literally/fundamentally. the books themselves are fucking horrid and yet they keep printing them.
there’s no such thing as nasty fundamentalism. the fundamentals of christianity (islam and jusaism too) are fucking nasty.
FUCK. YES.
HAHAHA YES, GOOD.
…”and god has given me the strength to ….” POW!!!!
New addition to my Top Five favorite DoA moments.
SMITE
EVIL
It’s like everyone is getting a crowning moment of awesome! And now it is Joyce’s turn! YOWZA!
Good lord, you guys; the Crowning Moment of Awesome page doesn’t have a DoA listing! Like, at all!
Sadly, I have no idea how to make one. Anyone else?
Would not be surprised if Head Alien shows up tomorrow.
Oh my. Never mess with an enraged Joyce or he friends and loved ones. Gotcha.
Curse you, typos!
Joyce is Mother Bear. Galasso’s lucky he took over before she got there.
im kind of worried about that “you came after me” line. like we know beckys not totally over joyce and this is a pretty spectacular thing joyce just did. im afraid of the potential emotional turmoil that might come from suffering such a traumatic event and being rescued by someone you love but are trying to get over
Cue Joyce’s struggles with her own sexuality.
inb4 dina offers to help them both.
OT3? or should it be OT4 because Dorothy?
I think God gave all the strength to Joyce for that punch. You go, Joyce.
But it’s really, really telling about how messed up this has gotten that Joyce has realized it’s no use trying to reason with him.
well i mean he’s the guy who brought a gun to a
knife fightfamily meetingSo remember when Joyce had that encounter with Joe. Beat him up, Joe got pissed, Joyce was all “But I thought girls couldn’t hurt guys, because girls are weak and guys are strong.”
Ross also comes from that same environment. He views himself as strong, Joyce as weak to the point of being harmless, but more than that, he thinks that Joyce shares these views. He’s not truly expecting a fight. He thinks that he can just be all “Rargh! Me Big Dad! You Tiny Girl!” and Joyce will step aside knowing there’s nothing she can do to impede him.
Joyce however has learned a thing or two since last they spoke, and she’s ready to pass the lesson on.
YES.
ToeDad: “I JUST CAN’T UNDERSTAND WHAT WENT WROOOOOOONG. GOOOOOD, WHY DON’T YOU HELP ME PICK ON LITTLE GIRLS???”
God: “Yeah, that really is a mystery of the ages, isn’t it?”
Wow, Im not sure that this isnt the version of Joyce with alien super powers.
Toedad just got STUBBED!
No, no, no, no….
Toedad….::sunglasses:: just got NAILED.
And God has given Joyce the strength to toetally kick your butt!
Joyce looks seriously awesome in that third frame
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9l_U6eJpKco
FALCON FUCKING PUNCH
Getting punched by fucking falcons sounds awkward, what if they continued fucking while they punched you?
The Strength to be punched out by a young naive girl apparently.
This pleases me.
Sorry, giant sarcasm quotes around young and naive there. Not the same girl Ross remembers.
Loss of the certainty of your faith and a realistic exposure to the world as is rather than as sold to you will do that to a person.
Which is why these cultures fear secular university and things like the internet so much. Because when you say everything you say is true and then they go out and find out, oh, some of it is complete bollocks, then they are more likely to keep pulling at the strings to find out what else is bollocks.
Especially when one of the tenets of fundamentalism is that you have to accept ALL of it or you lose everything. Once kids who were raised to believe that find out that much of what they were taught about the physical world is bogus, they often reject the spiritual stuff too. Hence, fundamentalism is a leading cause of atheism.
joyce has evolved so much in the last 2 minutes
I’m sure it’s been longer than that.
Well, someone has given Joyce the strength, too XD
god has given him the strength to get punched the heck in the face
Leave the men where they lay
They’ll never see another day
Lost my soul, lost my dream
You can’t take becky from me.
If the next week or so of strips was just the cast taking turns beating up Ross like the hysterical passenger in the movie Airplane, I would be cool with that. Characters who have no reason to know any of this happened could queue up.
*volunteers… then remembers he is not a character…* 🙁
He’s really been stuck in encounters this whole time, huh?
Dina attacks and scratches his face, but he is too much for her.
So Amazi-girl attacks and takes his gun, but his car is too much for her.
So Joyce attacks and knocks him over.
Is Ross ready to give up, or does he need a few more? Note: Ross being ready to give up may involve being unconscious.
Joyce FTW!
FUCK HIM UP!
To quote lucifer from the Constantine movie: “Looks like somebody doesn’t have your back anymore.” Feels ironic quoting that in the situation but I still felt it worked.
Toedad is sort of a fallen angel.
About the alt-text, at first I read “oops, re-funded” and thought it was some sort of pun about fundamentalism.
I wonder if this is going to be the start of Joyce healing from her assault. She just proved that she is capable of amazing feats to protect Becky, and just slam dunked Toe-dad across a field. Maybe this will show her that she has strength of her own and will start becoming less afraid to walk across campus on her own, and convince her to seek help with coping.
Also:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vIARjtWLbA&t=0m59s
It may work out like that at first -but wait until her parents hear of this… :c
I don’t know. Currently the PTSD of her assault is intertwining itself with her sexual repression and her faith, which is not great for her. But this might be a stake blow to said faith and the assumptions of morality it makes. Seeing how her faith looks when followed as unerring truth and without bend, seeing the similarities in mistreatment and threat and traumatization, she may be seeing those bonds start to crack, which might at least let her start talking about it openly to a select few, which would be good. Becky, especially, would be good to talk it out with, because she’s made a similar break with the restrictions of her faith and has that long history of trust that will be so necessary as she talks this out.
Funny thing is I’ll just bet Goliath thought he was the hero too.
I mean he was fighting for his country if memory serves. Might not be rememberin all the details, but dude was most likely just followin orders.
Yep. The Philistines and the Israelites each picked a champion (so that they didn’t have to fight each other with their whole armies and have lots of casualties). Goliath was chosen to represent the Philistines, because he was friggin’ huge. There’s no reason to think he’s evil or anything.
Yeah, not his fault that the Israelites chose to send in the time’s equivalent of a sniper.
Well, to be fair, putting a sniper in plain sight on the front lines where the enemy can easily get near and attack them is probably the worst thing you can do with one.
Well, barring something really stupid or nonsensical like slathering them in barbecue sauce and throwing them into a lion pit. Its the worst thing that still kinda makes some kind of sense tactically speaking.
… but then his cover would be lions. Nobody would look for him under a pile of lions! Perfect camoflauge, what are you on about.
Hard to aim at anything from inside a lion’s stomach. That’s all I’m saying.
You know, say what you will about him, but damn, God must’ve given him some kind of strength. Most people don’t just pop out of a car wreck that flips the car. Or just recover from hanging out of a car window while in a high speed chase. That would be enough to exhaust pretty much anyone. But Ross is some sort of Terminator. (And I guess it’s genetic since Becky seems ay-oh-kay with zero trauma from this whole scenario)
It wasn’t God who gave him strength. He’s just rapture-ready.
I know what you mean, but suddenly I’m imagining Toe-Dad as a Big Daddy and his actions make so much more sense now. I wonder if we can harvest any Plasmids from him?
Remember though, we never actually saw what happened to Toedad or anything that happened after Amazigirl lost her grip on the rope. Perhaps he just fell out of the car as it was slowing down. A fall from a few feet up onto the ground might hurt but it probably wouldn`t be a devastating injury.
I was imagining him holding the rope, when the car started tipping. The rope lost the slack, pulling him out the window…now his legs fling out behind him like a jack-knife (he is parallel to the ground, now, and face down) Lets go of the rope, and crashes to the ground, hence the knees?
are…
are we sure she’s not an abductee in this universe
‘m just asking questions
Joyce’s alien abductee powers activate!
Oh. I really did enjoy this strip. 😀 Joyce with strength. I hope this strength sticks around.
You know, if there is a God that does … once in a while … grant strength. That was it right there XD.
I wonder if Joyce ended up cutting her fist on his teeth.
The power of Joyce propels you! The power of Joyce propels you! Pertundam ergo fugis… Amen.
Plus 50 internets to you.
YOU GO JOYCE!!!!!
Hey, ToeDad – what she said.
Sorry Toedad, God distributed strength through another schedule, but dont worry, you’ll get a taste of the heavenly gifts 🙂
Yessssssss.
After dealing with the previous strips in this arc, this is just really, really satisfying.
Yeah, well whatever strength you got, apparently Joyce got it 2 times over. Get 50 shades of rekt man.
So i’ve been following DoA (Dumbing of Age not Dead or Alive, funny coincidence though) since the beginning and only now i noticed that there are other three or so comics with the same characters.
So are the other comics within the same lore but in parallel universes that make the story change? Or they just look like the same characters but are different people?
Also could someone (if it’s not to much of course) please give me an critical analysis about the other comics so that i can evaluate if i’ll read them too?
No, totally different lore, beyond the characters themselves. Even then some of them aren’t 100% the same. It’s Willis’s earlier work, starting from the late 90s. He’s re-running them, and currently at the early part of his second comic set in that alternate universe.
Dumbing of Age has far better storytelling and art, because well, he’s clearly improved since those early efforts. He re-drew the first part of It’s Walky and had me wishing for more. A re-make if you will. 😛
It goes something like this:
– Roomies! was Willis’ original comic, starting off as a mostly slice-of-life college strip that went very dark after a character death.
– It’s Walky! was the followup in the same universe, which moved out of college into a sci-fi romp with aliens, action and occasional high drama.
– Shortpacked! then followed some of the IW! characters into civilian life working in a toy store, with a lot of pop-culture gags (and occasional high drama, because Willis).
– There’s Joyce & Walky! too, also a followup, which takes Joyce and Walky (the original OTP of the comic) into a domestic sitcom. It does introduce a few characters and plot threads that show up here, but a fair number of the relevant comics were subscriber-only and are now available to Patreon supporters.
Dumbing Of Age is basically a complete reboot of the entire thing with the benefit of 15 years of writing and drawing experience, going back to the slice-of-life setting of the original Roomies! (with occasional high drama). Characters are mostly drawn from Willis’ previous comics, generally keeping their design and personality outlines, but it’s a fresh start for all of them.
Hope that helps!
D’oh, I meant to link to Bring Back Roomies! / It’s Walky!, which currently re-running almost all the old strips in story order, one per day.
Oh, and hey, there’s a timely interview with Willis over at The Mary Sue!
The guy who looks like a foot has a jaw of glass. *GASP*!!! He’s like a Cinderella man!
Joyce probably broke her hand, to be honest
Maybe a bruised fist. I hope we’ll see more hits in the next strip. Who’s next in line to hit Ross the Toe-headed punching bag? Sal? Amazi-Girl?
The Truck.
Seriously though who heard the words “Flawless Victory” in their heads after Ross hit the ground?
Speak for yourself. I heard “I’m making a note here: HUGE SUCCESS”
The truth is, is that Joyce actually multiplies her strength every time she swears. Her aversion to swearing isn’t because she sees it as a sin but because she doesn’t want to risk hurting anyone. Her DAMN IT! was simply her powering up.
Hell: X5
Damn: X10
Crap:X15
Shit:X20
Fuck:X50
Seven dirty words you can’t say on Tv said in quick succession: X500
So that’s why Cartman turned into Goku…
I want that power.
THE POWER OF CHRIST PROPELS THIS FIST
Alternate comment:
YOU GOT KNOCKED THE FUGG OUT
Damn good shot. Perfect right hook.
Heck, If AG can doing flying acrobatics on a speeding car, and Sal can do same on her bike….then why can’t 90 lb. Joyce deck 250 lb Toedad?
Seriously, most satisfying strip in ages.
Where is Dina?
I think she’s hunting in the woods for food.
Also, incidentally, Becky has officially never been more lesbian than she is right now.
Honestly, she looks more worried than anything else.
Confirmed girlfriend who likes her back. Rescued by superheroine, hot motorcycle woman, and her crush. Plus her crush decked out her homophobic dad.
Yeah, she’s probably hitting just about peak lesbian right now.
Feel free to insert whatever hackneyed DBZ joke about numbers exceeding 9000 or this not being her final form or whatever. I’m too tired this morning.
UM ACTUALLY the real line is “Over 8000” and it was butchered by evil gaijin dubbers.
#trufan
Yes, that’s true. However, the MEME, which is what everyone goes nuts over, was born from the mangled dub line. Ergo, 9000.
Joyce knows a hell of a lot more about what a father’s duty should be, you selfish, fundie moron.
Now kick him in the head until death.
“Dads know how to make everything right”
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-5/01-when-somebody-loved-me/fix/
Damn that arc was rife with foreshadowing.
It’s been a wonderful sequence, with this as one of my favorites.
And this.
So glad to see the spirit of It’s Walky! Joyce has arrived.
YOOOOOOOOO
Now that I’ve gotten that out of my system, I realize the car accident pretty much guarantees that Ross is going to prison.
A few pages ago I was wondering how badly Becky would let Amazigirl beat him up. I can’t believe I should have been worrying about Joyce.
“Oh great he’s talking about father’s duty again. Lord, give me the strength to not punch him square in the jaw, or at least the strength to do so.”
…
“God’s will be done.”
Damn skippy, Willis!
Okay, is anyone other than me reading “God gave me strength” and then imagining that as a “Magic staff, make my monster grow!” sequence?
…
Okay, so you didn’t, but now you can’t stop thinking it, right?
Damn you, now I’m picturing Toedad dressed as Rita Repulsa.
My work here is done.
As long as it’s not the rita action figure outfit with the boob cones…..
-Brain sizzles like a frying egg-
That’s a big problem….
We only have three people involved in the rescue. We can’t assign everyone a Ranger.
Wow a real Joyce vs Goliath story, she defeated the Ass by hitting him on the jawbone.
+1
Isn’t that a reference to the Judge Samson? He beat a bunch of…Palestinians, was it?…with the jawbone of an ass. And thus he made an ass of them all.
FALCON JOYCE!
In the words of LL cool J:
Joyce is gonna knock you out…. mama said knock you out…. I’mma gonna knock you out….
…Joyce sent Toedad flying…
Are you sure there’s no Martian interference in Dumbiverse?
Well, she couldn’t have done this before she devoted herself to Dexter & Monkey Master…
(Causality shmausailty)
Probably been said before, but, youngest child with 3 older brothers equals not weak physically or super manipulative possible but for j I don’t think the latter is the case
3 older presumed to be brothers at least. Jocelyn was in that mix. But still, yeah, I imagine she knows how to rough and tumble when needed.
You know, I think this whole event speaks a lot about Amber’s effectiveness as Amazi-Girl. As far as serious crises goes, she’s 0 for 2 in terms of helping people, and 0-1 in instigating a fight with Sal. Amazi-Girl has only ever made things worse, or was otherwise useless, and I’m sure it’s because she’s not doing the “superheroine” thing for other people; she’s doing this to avoid confronting her issues, arguably at the expense of others. While I do understand that trauma is hard to work through, I think her current method of coping isn’t just dangerous; it’s selfish and self-serving, with the pretense of helping others as an excuse. It doesn’t mean I hate her; I just hope she realizes this and stops.
Contrast that with Joyce, who’s had more victories than defeats by just being herself when it comes to fighting. She’s successfully defended Dorothy from her over-religious parents, she defended herself from a bible-quoting rapist, and now Joyce is in the process of defending Becky from her dangerously religious father. The difference between Joyce and Amazi-Girl is that Joyce genuinely cares.
Sure, Amazi-Girl cares about human life as a general vigilante rule, but she has neither the passion nor the drive that Joyce has when it comes to confronting danger, especially for the benefit of others. Amazi-Girl is an emotional self-defense created by Amber, she isn’t there to help people; that’s just a result of imagining these crises as her past traumas.
I think that one of the best lessons Joyce learned from growing up in a fundamentalist home is that you should defend and put your whole faith into your beliefs. Be passionate about them. We’ve seen her do that when trying to justify her belief in the Bible and God. Right now, Joyce has placed her belief in Becky, in her best friend, and she’ll do everything she can to defend her.
Great analysis! As with all good character analyses, the correct thing to do here is disagree. Because internet. =)P
While I won’t disagree with you about Amazi-Girl’s motives or high-risk methods, she doesn’t seem short on passion where asshole abusive fathers and their victim daughters are concerned, and however badly it nearly turned out in this case she deserves at least an assist. She wasn’t ineffective. The biggest threats were (1) Toedad escaping in the Toemobile with Becky and going off to do… whatever he was planning, (2) Toedad shooting someone; and (3) State troopers ka-spewing Toedad’s brains in front of Becky and traumatizing her for life. However risky her methods, she neutralized all three threats. I have NO IDEA how Sal and Joyce were planning to get him to stop, but it wouldn’t have been pretty either.
As for Joyce, I’m going to again disagree. Joyce is normally a confused and conflicted individual, handicapped by her upbringing. She leans towards kindness, compassion, and acceptance. These are at her core and are a great source of strength and determination, and they’re about character, not beliefs. She could be capable of almost anything through this. But she is held back alternatively by confusion regarding the, erm, harsher parts of Christianity, and by uncertainty stemming from exposure to the myriad things from which she had been previously sheltered. Her strength emerges not from the application of faith in any sense beyond dedication to people, but instead from setting aside this confusion and uncertainty when it truly matters.
Her passion is based on her psychological trauma, trying to “correct the wrong” that happened by using this trauma as a “weapon for good”. That is very passionate, sure, but it’s a self-serving passion that fizzles out when confronted with reality. On the flip side, Joyce is protecting her best friend when she could’ve just let Amazi-Girl do her thing. She is held back by her confusion, yes, but it’s overridden by the powerful instinct to help others when they’re in need, and that instinct is validated through her faith.
Joyce’s beliefs are something to consider, because prior to Becky showing up, Joyce still thought homosexuality was something to “cure”. She tried to “cure” Ethan because she thought that’s what her beliefs called for. Here, she is facing that belief in the form of Toedad, and rejecting it. That alone is a very powerful message about how her beliefs and faith have changed.
The story of Joyce is the story of coming to terms with one’s religious upbringing, how society challenges those beliefs, and how one chooses to react. Time and again, Joyce has chosen to use her faith in the defense of people that fundie Christians like toedad or her parents would condemn. She’s rejecting their interpretation of their shared faith in God and Jesus Christ and asserting her own; one that isn’t cruel or discriminatory against anyone.
Rather than setting aside her confusion and uncertainty, I think it becomes clearer to Joyce on what she does and doesn’t believe in. She believes that Becky is valid in who she is, and she doesn’t believe that what Becky’s father is doing is right or morally just.
Joyce is cool as hell (hah), but try imagining this strip with Toedad still armed and with a running car.
I imagine it would’ve gone better than a car crash that could’ve potentially killed the red vehicle driver (because Amazi-Girl lost her grip), Amazi-Girl herself (if Sal wasn’t there to catch her), Toedad and Becky.
Secondly, there is more than one way to stop a car, just as there is more than one way to disarm a person.
I don’t agree. I think that it is much more likely that it would have ended with bloodshed and multiple fatalities.
I imagine it would’ve ended in a car crash anyway, after Toedad trying to ram through police fortifications, possibly while shooting/being shot at, with a lesser chance of survival.
I really like this analysis! I agree with all that actually, it all makes a lot of sense. Amazi-Girl does what she does *for herself* instead of other people, whereas Joyce does things the other way around, even if its hard or its something that is against her original beliefs.
Amber definitely needs some help. I’m hoping this will help her realise it!
That may have been the case once but read ‘hostage’ again. See what Amazi-Girl’s reason is for keeping up the pursuit despite having smashed into a windscreen at 20mph: “I cant… fail anyone!”
She may be crazy and self-deluding, but she believes that she’s doing this to help people.
well, yes, “*I* can’t fail anyone!” as good as her intentions are, it’s still about her. which is what you’d expect when Amazi-Girl is a coping mechanism.
That’s still more about her own issues than actually helping people, I think, and goes back to both the end of WBDDB and Blaine berating her for not being able to do anything about Sal taking Ethan hostage. I dunno, I’m struggling to articulate the impression I got from it.
-Rolls eyes-
This is a very biased, unfair, and inaccurate analysis of both Joyce and Amazigirl. It feels less like you understand either character, and more like you want to find knit-picky reasons to attack Amber/Amazigirl and will twist information to suit this conclusion.
For the record, I am not saying that was Amazigirl is doing is healthy. It is not. Burying her emotions, problems like domestic abuse, under layers of anger and disassociation is not healthy. Still, that doesn’t mean that she hasn’t helped in these situations, particularly in this violent kidnapping.
The facts are:
1) Toedad was ALREADY violent and talking about fighting the police over custody of his daughter.
2) Toedad was ALREADY endangering both himself and Becky by driving recklessly.
3) Toedad was already several minutes ahead of Sal before Amazigirl slowed them down.
Those are indisputable facts shown through the dialogue and storytelling.
We also know that any discussion with Becky could have led to more anger and escalation. Particularly if she had called 911 without being prompted by Amazigirl! He was already prepared to strike her for even trying to keep them from getting in a wreck, and had they continued that is a very likely outcome – particularly with Sal in pursuit.
Do you think that if he saw Joyce in the rearview instead of Amazigirl this situation would have been resolved more peacefully? Or, more likely, would he have started behaving more recklessly in the name of “Defending” his daughter? In which case, there wouldn’t have been anyone to disarm Ross. Or keep him from hitting the pavement and dying (Traumatizing Becky). Or kept the car from flipping.
Sal simply DOESN’T HAVE THAT SKILLSET. Without Amazigirl to disarm and stop Ross, she would have escalated the situation as well simply by being present.
And don’t even get me STARTED on cops, who would have likely have tried to flip the car anyway.
So, sure, Joyce got in the last punch, but it was only after Amazigirl disarmed Ross, stopped his vehicle, and got him just injured enough that Joyce was capable of knocking him down. Heaven knows she couldn’t do it at the fountain!
In fact, I am going to double down on this stance and say that Joyce put Becky in DANGER by refusing to contact people who would be able to help her friend. She didn’t want to tell Dorothy or Amazigirl – the two people who would be most capable of preventing this situation in the first place! Dorothy is an incredibly intelligent woman with a strong understanding of the world, law, and how to help others. She’s also an aspiring politician who understands how to pull favors with connections, and her boyfriend’s mother knows the Dean. She would have been the most able to find a safe and legal way to keep Becky on campus, but Joyce would not tell her because of personal reasons. That was selfish.
Amazigirl/Amber, had she known about Becky, could have helped ensure she wasn’t spotted and that Ross wouldn’t endanger Becky at the school. Not only is she highly educated about the LGBT+ community, and so more likely to know of resources to help Becky, but she is also generally more experienced at ensuring that she isn’t caught by the wrong people. She wouldn’t have overlooked the fact that Becky’s orange hair was a red flag. She also would have been more hyper-vigilant in ensuring that if Becky was spotted, she wasn’t put in that much danger.
By not contacting her friends and assuming Becky could just sleep in her dorm with no fallout, Joyce CAUSED this entire arc. Without Amazigirl, people probably would have died.
For Amazi-Girl’s ‘real world superheroing’, she’s not doing so bad. She’s been shown to have actually stopped other crimes in progress, or are we not counting the time she saved the woman being harrassed on the street because she’s nameless? She actually did stop the White-Board Ding-Dong Bandit. So far she has exactly two in-panel failings: picking a fight with Sal & crew and allowing the escape of Ol’ Gash Face. And honestly, after Dorothy reports _this_ incident of Amazi-Girl being hit by a car and stopping a ToeDad (a campus shooter) people might actually calm down as much as people did in Seattle after Phoenix Jones’ secret identity was revealed to be MMA. Even in this incident, Amazi-Girl may not have ‘saved the day’ but she certainly kept the day from slipping into that cold black night by disarming ToeDad, bringing the car to a stop and simply helping when it was shown that the police were not going to.
Amber’s psychological problems are still more of a burden on Amazi-Girl than her ‘official’ record.
Um. I think you’re way off the mark on a few things here.
First, from your ‘indisputable facts’, number 2 is flat wrong. Becky got Ross to slow down and drive normally already – telling him to stop at stop signs before they even got off campus, and to ‘drive casual’ when she saw the cops coming (and before she saw AG).
Secondly, Joyce did tell Dorothy about Becky. Becky turned up on Thursday, and Joyce told Dorothy about her situation the very next day; Dorothy discreetly raised the subject of shelters in their Gender Studies class after lunch. As for Amazi-Girl – she was the person Joyce contacted, via Dorothy, as soon as she knew Ross was back on campus (when Becky called her while running through the meadow, and before Ross turned up at the fountain with the gun). Joyce certainly didn’t “refuse to contact people”, and I think you’re doing exactly what you’re accusing ninja_jesus of here.
Also, your whole thing with Amazi-Girl having the skills to save Ross and Becky from the crash neatly sidesteps the fact that AG caused the crash in the first place by blowing out Ross’ tyre. I’ve said my piece already in the last couple of days so won’t repeat everything here.
It wouldn’t have been as exciting, but the best possible reaction from Amazi-Girl (in terms of Becky’s safety) would probably be something like this:
AG: “Joyce, listen to me. Do you know where they’re going?”
J: “Y-yes. I think so. Becky said he wanted to take her home. To La Porte.”
AG: “Joyce, you need to call the police right now. Tell them what’s happened, where they’re going, and describe the car. They’ll catch him and get Becky out of there, I promise. Now I’m going to go find Dina and make sure she’s okay too.”
+1
Oh please. This is drivel.
Firstly, Becky told Toedad to drive casual, but there was very little indication of him doing so. And, in fact, the second that anyone would have entered pursuit his reckless behaviors would have continued. It doesn’t matter if we’re discussing Amazigirl, Sal, or the police. Anyone tailing Toedad would have escalated the situation, and SOMEONE WOULD HAVE PURSUED HIM. Even if your “Best case scenario,” the police would have pursued, Toedad would have either tried to escape through reckless driving (Prompting either the pit maneuver or tire shredding strips – which would have flipped the car anyway), or he would have taken the gun out and ended in a shoot off. The fact that you believe that calling the police on a man with a rifle holding his daughter hostage in a high speed chase would have ended better than no one getting seriously injured is LAUGHABLE at best.
Joyce might have MENTIONED Becky’s situation, but she didn’t take anyone’s advice. She wanted Becky to just live in her dorms with no one noticing, just forever. She was told this wasn’t feasible, and she didn’t care. She was told it was short-sighted, and she didn’t care. She was told of places which could help Becky AND SHE DIDN’T CARE. She, like a short-sighted child, believed that she could just hide a full grown woman away in a dorm forever with absolutely no fallout.
There’s a difference between telling someone, and seeking help and taking that help. Joyce didn’t. She did things her way. She put Becky in danger because of it.
But let’s return to the police again, shall we? In our universe, the police are a mixed bag. Sure you have good police officers who can and do resolve dangerous situations, but you also have a police academy which teaches force before negotiation and acceptable losses. One hostage in a car has less value than the potentially dozens who could be killed when Ross gets in a high-speed shootout. Pedestrians, other drivers, police officers… They’re not going to put everyone in danger over Becky. Period.
And that is OUR universe.
In the Dumbing world, the police seem to be incompetent to the point of comedic effect. Not only do they make NO effort to find an illegal vigilante on premises, they can’t even distinguish between an animal attack and a beating – from when Amber assaulted her father. After the shooting, they made no effort to secure the premises, and let a speeding car (With a girl riding behind it on a skateboard) drive right past them. Because, you know, fleeing the scene of a crime isn’t suspicious at all.
What do you think the best-case resolution would be with cops who can’t even be bothered to do their jobs? Do you sincerely, honestly think it’d be better than disarming a dangerous man and getting everyone out alive?
Hmm. Wow. You seem to be very convinced of a lot of things that ‘would’ have happened, and of what you say characters were thinking when, I believe, the text clearly shows otherwise. You’re also trying to move the goalposts after you’re been shown to be wrong (“Joyce didn’t tell Dorothy! Okay, well, she might have mentioned it but…”).
Protip: Dismissing someone else’s reply as ‘drivel’ and then proceeding to shout at them is not conducive to any kind of discussion. You’ve clearly got some kind of raging hate-on for Joyce and aren’t interested in listening to anyone else’s interpretation, so I’m out. Have a nice day.
I don’t hate Joyce at all. I am pointing out that saying she “Saved the day” or resolved the conflict is completely wrong when she is part of the root cause of the conflict. To be honest, I had forgotten that she had made mention of Becky to Dorothy, but she didn’t pursue advice. She didn’t even acknowledge that there was a need for long-term goals. Becky staying at a school where she would be spotted with no protection, while being stalked by her father IS in part Joyce’s fault based on the choices she made.
And I am countering the ‘should’a, could’a, would’a’ with another perspective. The idea that contacting the police wouldn’t escalate the situation is just plain wrong. Police CONSTANTLY escalate situations. They’re trained to apprehend, and in this situation they would not have let an armed assailant escape, and Ross already said he would fight the police if they gave chase. There’s no good end there. None.
Joyce and Amazigirl have some similarities. They are both victims of assaults that have left them psychologically scarred. They are both resistant to getting help. They’re both more willing to handle situations outside of their control independently, rather than seek help. They both need help in dealing with the roots of these issues, rather than burying trauma under coping mechanisms. They both played a role in how this chain of events played out – both in a positive and negative way.
My problem is that the OP is fixating on one action by Joyce and saying it resolved the entire situation and that she saves people just by being herself, and that is simply not true. Joyce played just as much of a role in escalating this to violence as Amazigirl had, while Amazigirl had managed to successfully avoid getting anyone seriously injured. As far as comic-book-worlds are concerned, that’s a win! It’s more than what many heroes could say, honestly.
Just a point: Ross caused the crash by abandoning the wheel and climbing out of the moving car to shoot Amazi-girl. A crash was pretty much guaranteed from that moment.
Would he have let go of the wheel to shoot police cars?
Would there be caltrops on the road puncturing his tires and sending them spinning into a truck?
Would some random bystander end up getting her windshield smashed?
It’s ultimately kind of pointless to ask about could/should, but I think the entire argument over the last week is less about whether Amber did a good job and more that she really shouldn’t have been physically able to without plot armor.
That was specifically in reply to “neatly sidesteps the fact that AG caused the crash in the first place by blowing out Ross’ tyre.”
I also suspect, you and the author may have different ideas about the kind of realism to expect in the strip. We’ve got a lot of emotional and psychological realism – everyone involved is going to dealing with the emotional consequences of this for years of our time, much like Joyce still (not) dealing with the attempted rape.
And there’s no aliens or super-tech kind of weirdness. Still, Amazi-girl’s been playing by super-hero rules the whole time. Both in terms of physical prowess and things like the secret identity trope.
More broadly, how else could this have gone, narratively? It’s all well and good to talk about the best realistic option being to call the cops and let them handle it, but that doesn’t work story wise. What would that look like? We see Joyce call the cops and give a report, go down the station and give a statement, then hear that Ross is dead and Becky’s been taken to the hospital for observation?
Or we could follow Becky, sitting helplessly as Ross crashes into the police blockade and drags himself from the car with his gun, to be blown away?
Or just wait a couple of months real time before we find they found him at home and were able to rescue her.
The protagonists needed to be the ones to stop Toedad. How could that be arranged, without breaking your suspension of disbelief?
Agree that narratively, simply calling the cops would have been unsatisfying – and certainly less exciting, as I said. I don’t think that precludes discussion of whether Amazi-Girl did the right thing within the story.
Please note that saying “Amazi-Girl made the situation worse” is not* the same thing as “Amazi-Girl made the comic less enjoyable” or “Willis shouldn’t have written it this way”. The last week or so has been a wild and exciting ride building up to a fantastic point of catharsis, and none of it would have happened if Amazi-Girl hadn’t escalated the situation. But I absolutely think she did escalate it – again, within the story – and that plays into the ongoing arc of Amber’s psychological issues.
(*for me; I recognise that some people have found the last week less enjoyable. Nothing wrong with that, either: people like different things.)