Yesterday was Monday, which means it was time for another Welcome To The Fuck Zone page! On the first week we got a NSFW pin-up of Walky and Dorothy, week 2 got us Sarah, week 3 got us Ethan, and this week we get Marcie! These stand-alone artworks can be accessed by Slipshine subscribers and there’ll be a new one every week!
Next week: …Danny, I think?
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“The parts you were showing off?”
“uh”
“’cause that hair IS pretty awesome”
Leslie’s hair acts as gaydar? Does it get progressively more fabulous, the more gayness is around?
ETHAN walks by
DOROTHY: “Wow, Leslie! Did you get your hair done again?”
LESLIE: “No. Why?”
You can watch it curl all by itself.
puts a whole new light on gay hair style
Becky bursts into the room,
Cue rapid hair growth until Leslie has a mane resembling Aphrodite’s, as depicted by Botticelli.
I’m thinking a cross between the following two hair styles/effects:
http://static2.bigstockphoto.com/thumbs/3/6/6/large1500/66383701.jpg%20http://i3.lisimg.com/1051163/460full.jpg
Sorry, looks like that pasted weird.
http://static2.bigstockphoto.com/thumbs/3/6/6/large1500/66383701.jpg
http://i3.lisimg.com/1051163/460full.jpg
Oh Leslie. Why do you always need a hug? :/
Being always in need of hugs is pretty good as far as curses go. Hugs are pretty freely available and all that.
No arguments here. 🙂
i have a hard time getting them because i feel dumb asking and even though i want them i wouldn’t know how to deal with if someone offered me one and would probably say no just because it feels so weird for someone to be willing. if that makes sense
Pro Tip: You don’t ask for hugs. You stand there, open your arms wide, and await a hug. It may not be the person you were hoping for, but usually someone will take the hint.
If no one takes the hint, you can then close your eyes and just stay in hug formation until someone asks you what you’re doing, at which point you assume your best Zen Master voice and say you are hugging the universe.
This is the single best piece of advice I have received in my life.
Thanks. The Universe really needed that!
Jedi Hugs! 🙂
PS: wow, that smiley emoticon looks like it needs a hug too. :/
that reminds me of that time when my crush in middle school (a 4’8″ adorable Asian kid) went around with a free hugs sign on. All the older girls gave him like 10 each. to this day im not sure who in particular I was jealous of. probably both
Oh yeah in middle school that height difference must have been pretty significant.
He probably had a growth spurt after high school and is now 4’9″.
I should probably text him or something. I haven’t seen him in person for years.
I was 5’7″ so shh
Doofus-waffle…
HAVE YOU LEARNED NOTHING?
ive like people who didnt like my gender. it happens no matter how hot you find them
at least then you can try to console yourself with the fact that youd be incompatible anyway
its worse when youre actually dating them and they decide that they prefer the straighter side of bisexual.
Dorothy’s initial surprise isn’t to the complex seduction plot, but for Walky to be right about it
That…doesn’t say good things about their relationship, now that I think about it… :/
This is Walky we’re talking about, though
Walky is not actually an idiot, and he’s been insightful about interpersonal stuff before (with Billie and Ruth, as I recall?).
He is kind of an idiot though in the “makes really dumb choices and has his foot permanently located in his mouth” sense.
And with Joyce and Ethan, specifically Ethan being gay.
Walky knew Ethan was gay because Ethan wasn’t kissing Joyce enough in front of him.
Walky wasn’t insightful there. He was just a dumbass who got lucky.
No, it’s because he never displayed any interest in her whatsoever. That’s kind of a telling bit of evidence. It’s not the whole story, but ‘is gay’ is a pretty reasonable guess.
Maybe Ethan was hesitant to openly express affection to Joyce as Walky would to Dorothy because she was attacked and might have some justified fears over it.
Walky is a straight boy who sees a guy not acting straight enough and decides he has to be gay. This is something I am familiar with.
If someone has never displayed any interest in women, there is a reasonable chance they aren’t interested in women. And while it’s possible he only meant it as super obvious performance… it’s also possible that Ethan’s COMPLETE LACK OF INTEREST in women is easier to pick up on. It might be an entirely shitty guess, but he hasn’t assumed Danny is gay, and Danny is not super open about performing heterosexuality either.
It is possible Walky’s just shitty, but we are talking about a gay dude here. It’s possible that he was right /and should have been right/, not right as a matter of total happenstance.
You’re welcome to your interpretations.
But I’ve lived this too much for it not to be completely shitty of Walky regardless.
There are other possible explanations for the behavior Walky noted, certainly.
Walky did what we all do – reached a conclusion from insufficient evidence. We do it all the time. Nothing wrong with it, even when it comes to thinking people are gay, as long as you stay open to more evidence changing your mind.
More, from a narrative point of view, it makes no sense to have it be pure coincidence that he was right. Or that he’s shitty about it – because he wasn’t shitty about it. He didn’t act on it. He didn’t tell anyone, he didn’t taunt Ethan with it, he kept it to himself.
Narratively, whatever you think of it, it shows Walky as observing and coming to the right conclusions. It shows him being insightful. If it was intended otherwise, it would have been easy to show him being wrong instead.
All it says is Walky is established to be the goofball who doesn’t care about anything beyond his next chicken nugget, which is a persona he’s painstakingly crafted so people don’t expect anything of him.
She knows she’s dating an idiot.
Walky was echoing what Leslie said about him, and it sounded like a joke. You don’t have to think little of him to be surprised it’s accurate. Maybe even he would be surprised.
It is Walky. He can be insightful sometimes but he is not the most socially aware – as shown with Carla and with Joyce for instance when he insults things people care about within earshot. Dorothy has seen this so of course she would be a little surprised when he gets what was likely a random guess where he echoed something Leslie said to him right.
Learning the strengths and weaknesses of the person you are in a relationship with is a part of a relationships growth and development.
Walky is a surprisingly good judge of character. Except his own – he is exceedingly bad at judging himself.
Please make Dexter and Monkey Master comic you promised patreon for 5000 a month and put these slipnshine on hold.
He’s got a buffer to February 13, 2017. If he decides to do it, that wouldn’t really change the line-up for a while.
Dexter and Monkey Master slipshine?
Righr? Instead, he makes stuff for slipnshine, still making over 5000 a mo th from Patreon. Please, Mr. Willis. Please make what you promised long ago, what many fans paid you for
In other news, I really like this comic.
Now I really want Dexter and Monkey Master to be the next slipshine
Leslie Bean is still hot in this ‘verse.
The dumbverse sexuality rule Willis didn’t tell us about.
Yes, he has. Sexuality is consistent across universes. He has stated this many, many times over, on Tumblr, on Twitter, in the comments, and on the blog.
No no, this is the rule of Conservation of Hotness. Different, but related, and we’re only just realizing.
I don’t think that’s a rule, if for no other reason than it would mean Joyce and Walky’s relationship in this universe would probably be very different.
Robin is considerably less hot in this universe.
No, she’s still hot, but the politics of this ‘verse’s version are like a bucket of ice water keeping you from realizing that. Leslie saw the hotness (and probably the bi-ness) but when exposed to the full extent of the politics lost all desire.
Welcome to dating in the adult world.
I was going to requote the same Prince song I used in Shortpacked! for a different Robin scene, but I won’t.
Well, don’t give us nothing. Do you have a different Prince song you can use?
I’m picturing Leslie’s gaydar as a very gay version of that robot from Lost in Space screaming DO HER! DO HER NOW!
I’m pretty sure only Ethan’s sexuality is constant in the multiverse, so I guess it’s possible Robin’s 100% straight.
Nope. Willis is on record as saying that everyone is what they were “before”. Which means Robin is “indefinably queer” – not that she probably recognizes, or is capable of admitting or acting on, that right now.
I guess it’s like in Shortpacked, where she didn’t admit it for forever
Likewise characters who were presumed straight in the Walkyverse like Danny, Becky and Dina are retroactively queer there.
see Leslie your first mistake was that absolutely nothing was covered in whipped cream
ROBIN: “Ooh! Whipped cream!”
ROBIN proceeds to lick WHIPPED CREAM.
LESLIE: “Oh my. The congresswoman has put her tongue all over my… hair.”
ROBIN: “Dude! Why’d you put whipped cream in your hair? That’s not very smart.”
LESLIE: “I know, I know, but– Why’d you lick it anyway??”
Leslie, leslie, leslie…..how could you have your head on straight with you were never straight to begin with?
…..I’m sorry. That was bad and I feel bad.
Hey, kinda reminds of me a friend I had in high school. When driving around and someone would give directions he would always correct “go straight” by saying “No, go forward. Never go straight.”
pretty sure that Willis and Rebecca Sugar have a bet going on who can have the most gay characters in one work.
It’s hard to keep count and I’m tired, but I’ll assume Willis is leading.
I dunno, being a monogender species, it’s pretty likely all gems are either gay or bi (in the cases of ones like Rose that are interested in aliens).
Both of them lose to Andrew Hussie because Homestuck has around ∞ Dave Striders.
There really isn’t an excessive number of gay people unless you lump everyone who is openly not straight in that number. I can see a lot of people who are bisexual and such (poly, pan, demi…) who are finally away from home exploring the part of themselves they’ve kept hidden once they get to college. Most people like me (I’m polysexual) stay in the closet or deny their feelings even to themselves and stick with the less drama inducing straight label. Billie and Ruth, Robin, and Danny are bisexual. Dina is pansexual. Mike is attracted to both women and men. Faz is what Faz is which might be bisexual with a strong affinity for women or something else. Marcie seems to have fooled around with Joe and females in the alternate universe so she may or may not be only attracted to women. Malaya seems to be a demisexual with romantic attraction to at least one woman, so rather she is homoromantic, biromantic, or panromantic has yet to be seen.
Straight wise, we know there is Joyce, Sarah, Sal, Amber, Jocelyne, Mary, Roz, Dorothy, Rachel, Dana, Joe, Walky, Howard, Jim, Ken, Jacob, Jason, and Tony just to name a few. Openly gay characters include Ethan, Leslie, Becky, Bryan, Daisy, Carla (homoromantic asexual), Grace and Mandy (probably), and Sayid. If it’s a competition for most gay characters, Willis is losing big time! XD
Mandy and Grace, like Marcie (and also Sierra) are bi. Everyone from Squad 48 in It’s Walky! was.
Yeah, it’s heavily skewed towards bi and largely due to Squad 48.
Which is kind of creepy when you realize they were that way basically for “Joe’s 5-girl-orgy wet dream”.
Uh oh, thejeff, you didn’t know I actually somewhat unironically enjoy Squad 48 and now I have to throw a pseudobrainy essay at you.
Squad 48 is definitely, absolutely, meant to be Joe’s 5-girl orgy wet dream and when they show up we’re supposed to holler and hoot and wave our boners around in praise for Sexmaster Joe. The joke is that they are Ladies Who Bang Joe And Also Each Other. This is an intrinsic fact of their characters.
But goddamn if I don’t like them. Part of it has to do with the fact that, viewing them today, they would be awesome and subversive bi poly ladies. For all the drama and hatefucking going on in It’s Walky! the people that are the most stable are the five women who bang each other for fun. Despite the fact that everything they do is in some way tied to being sex objects, we still get plenty of scenes establishing them to be romantically minded and mature about what they do, they threaten to beat the shit out of Joe when they think he’s two-timing on Joyce and demand he go after her and clear the air with her. Mandy and Grace’s genuine love for each other is never questioned or treated as false even when they pursue other partners for fun (and yes this involves them tragically dying WAY TO GO 2004 DAVID WILLIS).
Squad 48 was obviously not meant to be an embracing of non-traditional romantic engagements or of bisexuality, but that’s what they are to me now and it makes me excited to see poly representation at some point in this series (my OT3 is Marcie/Malaya/Sayid, ftr).
…that was their origin. Great. There’s a reason I don’t try to learn about the Walkyverse versions of anyone not in SP.
Despite the problematic genesis, even with them there are good parts, as Spencer says.
It’s Walky is definitely worth reading, despite the cringey parts. It’s especially good reading along with the current rerun because you get to read Willis’s commentary cringing at all the same parts. 🙂
No shame like old shame.
Thanks for the essay 😉
Biromantic Polyfidelity or healthy polyamory of any kind for that matter is very underrepresented. It’s sad that most of the times I’ve seen it it’s being used as a punchline.
I don’t think I’ve ever run across a comic with a polysexual character. I mean sure I can identify with the bisexual characters as they are close enough, but it would still be nice too see. I tell people I’m bi a lot of the time because most have no clue what polysexual even is! And even then, I catch a lot of crap for it (you are just appreciating the beauty of a woman, that doesn’t exist, bi now gay later, you can’t be unless you have slept with a woman, you’re being selfish, you’re with a man so you picked a side, how many threesomes have you been in, partner believing I would leave them for the other sex as there is obviously something they can’t give me, you need to pray to god to heal you, you just suffered heartbreak from a man and want to try out women because of that, we’re you abused, you’re just experimenting, if you are than prove it,…). It’s the reason I think a lot of people who are bisexual or other similar sexualities/romantic stay in the closet.
Thanks! It’s been a while since I read it and with the art style so different it’s hard to automatically know who is who. That lowers the number of openly gay characters to 7 that I can think of with only 4 of them getting enough comic time to not be side or background characters.
I guess people pointing out when a piece of media goes above quota of LGBTQ is a sore spot for me. For a while, if they had one or two I would hear crap like how they were filling a quota or how LGBTQ makes up only 2% of the population so why were they shoehorned in the cast. Then when the token gay person got normalized, anything beyond that in a piece of media (tv show, comic, movie…) that was not advertised as an LGBTQ piece had the fact pointed out EXCESSIVELY. Most of the time it wasn’t pointed out in a nice way either. It wears on a person.
What is this, since when are teachers real humans, with feelings and vulnerabilities and all that?
My students will never know this is true of me. They are not to realize I even exist outside of the classroom or my office.
My students will always know this of me. I literally walked into a wall during class last week, and I still have the bump on my head to prove it.
Since when does a university professor chat with first-year undergrads about their sex life, anyway?
Since when does a professor bring their sex life to the classroom in the first place, tho?
To all those who still have a Slipshine subscription: am I missing something great with this Marcie pinup? I feel I’m missing something great. :[
Yup. You are.
Leslie, I was a teacher of college age kids. NEVER SHOW WEAKNESS.
Oh Leslie. Don’t listen to those parts. They are very very stupid.
But ALL if their ideas are fun!
Oh man, I have so been there. ‘BUT I HAVE *SUCH* A CRUSH ON HER, I REFUSE TO ACCEPT SHE’S STRAIGHT’. It’s literally always the worst xD
Becky can relate, too.
Joyce might well be somewhere on the Kinsey Scale above Dorothy but just not that into someone she views as a sister.
please don’t have the straight girl explain to the lesbian how she should conduct herself
Given how everything else is written in this comic. I don’t really see that as a possibility.
It doesn’t seem like Dorothy’s bringing up anything Leslie hadn’t already considered.
She just wanted to believe in another reality so very very much.
She doesn’t seem to be explaining anything, she’s asking questions in every speech bubble.
some questions are not really about getting answers so much as making a point?
Like the point that OUTING SOMEONE IS BAD?
That one I’m pretty sure is an actual question, given how Dorothy stumbles through it. It’s kind of over the line of the teacher-student relationship, but we were already there with the disclosure that Leslie brought a speaker to class in the hopes of seducing them; I can see where Dorothy would like to know if her teacher was planning to out someone.
“Do we even know for certain that she’s not straight?” That might be a real question, or it might be trying to make a point. If it’s a real question then it’s none of Dorothy’s business, and if it’s trying to make a point then it’s definitely over the line of student/teacher relationship–it’s not about Leslie as teacher, it’s just about her romantic judgment, and that’s a question for a peer, not a student. (Mind you, again, Roz and Leslie between them already took us miles over that line.)
that was the question that got me worried
There’s “have the straight girl explain to the lesbian how she should conduct herself” and there’s “have the straight girl try to figure out what the hell just blew up the classroom”.
I think we’re more in the latter than the former.
I think Roz already explained what Leslie should do. The question is why Leslie followed her.
Oh right.
We DID get an explanation.
I’d have more of an issue with Dotty explaining to an ADULT how to conduct herself. If she was explaining it to a gay peer of hers I’d have no issue with it. Gay people are still people, and sometimes you gotta tell someone to reel it in. I don’t think I can stress that enough. It’s honestly less progressive to avoid talking to people about their problems due to their orientation.
“You’re different from me and I can’t talk to you. We should stay separate and live in our own little worlds and only talk to people about things we have depth for. Don’t talk to me about anything involving race, for you see I’m black and therefore I’m immune to criticism or self reflection if someone who’s not black tells me I need correction.”
Seriously, it just feeds into that toxic “us vs them” mentality.
Re the first paragraph: Adult is as adult does.
Re the second paragraph: That’s … refreshingly sane of you. I kinda’ wish I knew you in real life.
I believe Scar Man is referring to getting scolded regarding stuff about her sexuality. Like how a few days ago I got skeeved out over Dorothy being super shocked that a lesbian could ever go to a republican rally.
Like if another gay dude tells me I’m just desperately pretending to be straight I’m straight up gonna choke a bongo.
did you actually say “bongo” or was that the filter? lol
I think the main difference is how people are perceiving the action of Dorothy questioning Leslie’s plan for homosexual seduction.
Scar man is emphasizing the “homosexual” part. Yotomoe is emphasizing the “seduction” part. Like hey Leslie maybe using your class time to try and seduce ANYONE is kinda not okay
yes, that is exactly it. But people have been making good points about her having a right to complain based upon her abusing class time
Thank you
It’s horseshoe theory all up over this place. This is what happens when people spend TOO much time in echo chambers.
From the way you seem to see echo chambers everywhere, maybe you should consider the possibility that the condescending way you present your opinions might be why they are not received well, rather than unwillingness to listen to opposing viewpoints
i see the condescending ways other people post their opinions and how people vehemently agree with them and shun those who oppose. that’s what i call an echo chamber.
i’m very happy to converse with people who disagree with me. and i try my best not to be condescending. i can admit my last comment was a bit like this but i don’t think any of my other ones have been.
people tend to be very sensitive to these topics and they pick up a neutral tone of disagreement as “condescending” so forgive me if i don’t take it that well.
Yomato expressed an opinion that is not super popular around here, and while people may have disagreed, nobody got pissed off at him for it. Calling that an echo chamber seems like a stretch to me.
I’ll grant that the phrase “echo chamber” has become tainted for me recently, as I keep seeing it by entitled shits arguing that the mere existence of places where they are not allowed to be raging assholes is a threat to the first amendment, that laws against hate speech are oppressive and benefit nobody, and/or PTSD just means someone is a whiney crybaby.
So it may have biased my read of your comment, though I still think it has an air of “WAKE OUT UP, SHEEPLE”, which has never in history caused someone to reexamine anything.
If you actually want to break up an echo chamber, it’s much more effective to point out how a person or an argument is not being given a fair chance, or actually question the argument you think isn’t getting looked at closely enough.
I never said this place was the echo chamber. I think this forum leans left, which I have no problems with. It’s just that people with what I perceive as fairly radical opinions (horseshoe) tend to live in “echo chambers” then come to forums like these and keep at that sort of idea while taking any sort of disagreement as grounds for verbal war.
I understand what you mean by a word being tainted, that’s how “triggered” is for me now. I always stop myself from jumping to conclusions when I see it somewhere because it is still used very rightly so in many places.
Sorry, I didn’t mean to come off as that type of person. But my point wasnt to make that person reexamine anything. It was to point out a trend that I noticed.
Anyway have a good day stranger.
It’s all good, you did nothing that requires an apology, really. My chill supply was just critically low.
isn’t Dorothy legally an adult too though?
Yeah, everybody in the main cast is at least 18
What the actual…? Why not? Their conversation isn’t about how to be a lesbian, it’s about how to have a relationship – including things like “Don’t out anyone” which has nothing to do with sexual orientation.
Unsolicited relationship advice from strangers sucks regardless of sexual orientation. The OK’ness of a conversation about how to relationship, between people who know each other and are engaged in dialog, should not depend on the sexual orientation of either person.
If I have a gay friend who’s good at relationships, should I avoid asking them for relationship advice just because I’m straight? That would be stupid. And should they avoid asking me for advice just because they’re gay? Equally stupid.
http://imgur.com/a/bFira
CAN YOU BLAME HER?
I wouldn’t pass that up.
Huh. I just got a hankering for tacos.
No, seriously. I was surprised it wasn’t more euphemistic. And one euphemism was tacos, which made me really crave tacos.
Yes.
WHY IS THERE STILL NOBODY HUGGING LESLIE??
Maybe those who notice are afraid of rebound attraction or feel that being the wrong gender might feel offensive for Leslie? In case of doubt, go with Dina’s light physical contact (outside of the bikini zones).
For something more productive, we know of another very lonely and desperate female oriented female single, redacting the newspaper. And Dorothy might act as a bridge.
shes also a teacher which is super awkward
when a teacher hugs you its even worse
okay that sort of depends. It really isn’t always that awkward.
“another very lonely and desperate female oriented female single, redacting the newspaper”
Everybody forgets Daisy…
Leslie, just because you were hard for her doesn’t mean… oh, well. You get the idea.
The RobinXLeslie romance is so strong it’s influence goes beyond diffent universes.
Of course, it was about as inexplicable in the other universe as well, so it must have been caused by the next universe over.
Does it just continue ad infinitum, or is there a universe out there were Robin is this genius politician who brought about world peace and cured all disease and invented way to make junk food replaces the need for exercise, and that ONE Robin is responsible for Leslies from across the multiverse getting hot and bothered over her for no clear reason?
Leslie’s puppy-Dorothy devotion to Robin was what she needed most at certain times. Of course, I do think the irony of Robin/Leslie is that Robin needed a number of break-ups and a relationship with Joe (not because he’s a dude but because he was a friend she dated) to help Robin get off from her toxic train. Robin also needed Amber and Ethan to acclimate her too. DOA Robin has had the Republican party instead. Otherwise, SP! Robin was pretty awful in her own way.
Yes, but from whence did said devotion originate?? I think this Multiversal Sploosh Theory has merit
she did buy her a ton of stuff
if anyone bought me a house i’d probably love them forever.
leslie was also super insecure and robin was the first girl to pay attention to her. the same thing happened to me (except sp! leslie had a happier ending), so I don’t think that’s far fetched.
I love Dotty’s sense of priorities.
“Are you all right?”
“Walky was RIGHT?”
“Were you going to… to out her?”
Heh, Dotty slips into team!psychoanalyst again, note how she makes very few statements of her own. She just asks questions to keep the conversation going while she tries to get a handle on what’s going on.
ALONE
🙁
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGrLb6W5YOM
https://youtu.be/biAV-Xq9cYM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_P-v1BVQn8
Listening to those parts is not always a good idea, Leslie.
Get this blasphemy out of here! Making decisions based on logic and not emotion has no place in any fiction, let alone fiction with “dumb” in the title!
Is lust an emotion?
Yeah, I’d say so.
But isn’t it more of a biological drive like hunger or thirst?
I’d argue that it’s both. In fact, I might argue that lust is an emotion whereas libido is a drive, but that’s just splitting hairs, and my hair is gnarly enough already.
“Um… Jessica thought it would be a good idea.”
Dorothy: Wait…Walky was more observant and better at reading people than me? That…can’t be right.
Now will the cast of Hamilton help Leslie and Robin by calling out the latter?
Great, now I’m thinking about who would be who. Leslie is Angelica and Robin is maybe TJeff? Dorothy is clearly Hamilton. I was gonna say Becky is Laurens because of how super gay he was, but then her crush would be on pointdexter over here and that’s not happening lol. Because Joyce is clearly Eliza. Idk who Burr would be. Mike is Lafayette. Carla is Hercules Mulligan. And Walky is the King because he wants everything to stay how it was.
…. I’ve thought about this too much, haven’t I? xD
And Peggy.
Aaaand my brain launched into a Robin/Leslie version of Say No To This before I realised this was probably in reference to Pence.
I refuse to let Leslie’s use of past tense sink this ship.
This is the kind of ship that needs to sink hard and then be rebuilt slowly, over time, once the materials have… matured a little bit. Especially the sails.
Uh, not sure if that metaphor really holds any water, but you get the idea.
If the metaphorical ship holds enough water, wouldn’t it be sunk?
…dammit my pun is ruined
This ship needs to be hit with a torpedo so it’s shattered into unsalvageable shrapnel. Leslie deserves and can do better.
I agree, but I would prefer that the “better” be a significantly new and improved Robin DeSanto.
Then again, that’s just the cross-universal shipper in me talking, so…
Send it into the the fucking sigsbee’s deep and let the aliens living down there wonder where it came from.
Leslie’s wedding hair is back! It’s Amazi-girl’s hair really, but now its her wedding hair.
If any of you are on reddit, the subreddit needs some love!
Plays Rainbirds “The Bird up there is really you” on the hacked music.
… Sooooo faaaar, from my desire, soooo faaaar from my belief….
(Sorry, not available on YouTube or soundcloud. If you are on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/track/4wF8v330DoxO8slVPGpzFn)
So based on this we can deduce (which on the internet is just a fancy word for speculate) that what Willis is trying to convey in this page is the stereotypical belief that women do not want someone for who they are in the present, but for who they think they can turn them into.
That or showing that just because somebody have the same sexuality (or compatible ones) does not make them a good match if other mutual qualities are lacking.
I read it more simply. Even someone as levelheaded as Leslie can act like an idiot following heart or loins.
Sometimes, the demands of the “parts” overcome all reason and better judgment.
Wow, that first paragraph is super project-y.
Late response, but yes, I agree with that. I had hoped the comment in parentheses about deduction becoming speculation when used on the internet would be enough to express my sarcasm, but it seems I should’ve articulated that better. In regards to my own feelings on the matter, while I’ve seen people who fit this stereotype, it’s something that applies to both sexes and all genders.
I really think that Leslie needs to methodically look for a girlfriend. If she’s so lonely that her libido and need for emotional companionship is messing up her thinking processes, that isn’t a good thing and it never does any good to try to ignore it.
Is it me or is essentially everything about Roz objectionable and annoying?
We don’t get enough insight on Roz’s intentions and aspirations. (If she lacks any, that would be objectionable and annoying.)
shes basically daisy at this point
I think it’s not just loneliness though. I think Robin’s being a congresswoman had Leslie a little starstruck. Enough so to let herself gloss over some very important details.
Yeah, that was pretty obvious from the early things Leslie said about her. Kind of overshadowed lately.
I also suspect that Roz pushing the plan really helped convince Leslie that Robin would actually be interested – why else would her sister be suggesting more cleavage?
NOT CLEAVAGE ENOUGH
Um no, she’s embarrassed constantly by her sister. That’s relatable.
Her other parts were very ThomasDolby, because she was blinded by political science.
Thank you, folks. I’ll be here all week.
Buttoned up.
I love how Dorothy’s first reaction to finding this out is shock/disbelief of Walky being right about something.
[sighs] And this is what happens when you listen to your libido… I feel sorry for Leslie.
Oh my word… *pinches bridge of nose* On the one hand, I love this strip because it shows that we’re all fallible. We can all succumb to our desires and baser instincts on occasion. But on the other hand, JEEZ Leslie! This is like those guys in bars who continue to hit on women despite them saying that they’re lesbian or not interested.
is there any guys like that in the series?
because I think joe is better than that, but that might just be the joyce gravatar rubbing off on me
While Joe has shown an ability to take a hint and a willingness to back down when his advances are rejected, the amount of effort needed to make him do so is uncomfortable.
Joe is arguably something of a grey area on this subject. He’s the sort of person who believes in consent, but needs a more definite understanding of where the line of consent is drawn.
I’ve had a question for a while and this seems like a nice context to ask it. Please understand this is an honest question, born out of simple lack of knowledge and not meant to be inflammatory, though I feel it could be interpreted as such. But if I ask, is precisely because I endeavour to understand better.
Gay people are, understandably, very touchy when someone suggests that they could try being straight. They say that their sexual preference is inherently associated with their identity, thus suggesting or demanding a change is offending and violating. I can understand and agree with this. However, I often see gay people trying to seduce or woo straight people that they fancy. I myself have been hit on (which, I’ll admit, was rather flattering.) Nothing too hard or pushy, but still, an implied “I wish you changed your sexual preference for me”.
It seems to me that there’s a mentality where if a straight person becomes gay (or bi) it’s cause of celebration, but if it the opposite is as much as mentioned, it’s cause for outrage. Isn’t this a double-standard?
I am
probablyalmost certainly a very-not-good-person to answer this, but I think it probably has something to do with the current culture in general in that “straight” is considered more or less “default” or “normal.” So anyone who identifies as something other than that has probably spent a significant time struggling with that identification before either deciding to question identifying as straight or deciding that they are something other than straight. Effectively the idea of someone false-positively identifying as non-straight is near zero if not actually zero as a result of current attitudes on the matter, but the opposite is far far more likely.Basically, due to social and cultural reasons: “Pretty much no one is going to identify as something other than straight unless they’re damn sure about it.”
and to suggest that they might not be damn sure about it does a disservice to that struggle that got them there in the first place.
I think that the reasoning is that a gay person might try to convince themselves to be straight but that this is a self-deceit motivated by a desire to fit in.
In this particular scenario, Robin’s actual sexuality doesn’t come into the equation. Leslie just fancied her on a certain level and was willing to make the attempt and then let the dice fall where they may.
To sum it up a little too insubstantially, we celebrate the queer community because we’ve been taught not to. You don’t have to fear straightness being taken away from you, it is, bluntly, the normal for our society, but we’ve been grounded down with so much shame and fear over who we are that we need to celebrate it and show queer kids that it’s okay to be who you really are.
“Becoming” gay/bi/trans/ace is the incorrect way to put it, as they’re not evolving or something, they’ve always been that, and now they know, and we celebrate because they understand this new and wonderful aspect of themselves they previously did not.
Seducing a straight person and making them realize they were always gay for you is a fantasy (sorry Becky), but fantasies are fun, y’know?
It’s nice to know that you can feel attraction to someone the way a man can be attracted to a woman and have it reciprocated, and it’s disappointing for it not to play out and to be reminded that we’re in the minority.
I hope this helps in some way.
Two things actually:
While sexual orientation is often though of as a binary thing, it really isn’t. Gender might not play a great role in who you are attracted to, or it might.
You are the only one who can possibly know.
Society usually treats you as cis-straight until proven otherwise. And, depending on the environment, might bully and harass you for not being cis-straight, if they think they have a reason to suspect that.
This is the background upon which it is extremely impolite to suggest gay people might be straight, because “or else!” cannot really be not implied given the way violence against queer and non-binary people is prevalent.
Gay people might treat you like otherwise-otherwise, i.e. there is no reason not to (politely) hit on you, because though your orientation might be (or might not be) clear for you, it isn’t something someone else can safely deduct. As this does not imply violence in case you say no, it’s a different thing altogether.
(And if violence is implied you are dealing with jerks which are better avoided no matter where on the spectrum of gender and sexual orientation they fall.)
‘You are the only one who can possibly know.”
Plus many!
Is it an implied “I wish you changed your sexual preference for me” or an “I’m not actually sure if you’re straight or closeted or maybe bi”?
Even today, a lot of LGB people, especially young ones, aren’t completely open about it. Thus the whole thing with outing people being a big deal.
yeah, I think there’s a fair amount of this.
it’s not so much that the orientation is changed as straight is the default assumption for everyone, and often the only way to find out if one’s object of attraction isn’t is to come out (ha) and ask.
*Grits teeth* I really despise it when majority people think a double standard is prevalent only in the rules that are constructed, and that the context of those rules doesn’t matter one iota.
Because straight people are massively overrepresented in fiction – no, really, the majority of folks with even the smallest bit of culture not getting in their way are bi. And a fairly sized minority are gay. If anything, *DOA* has too many straights, if only narrowly. That’s fine, because it’s got plenty of stuff for the rest of us, but still. And we have people talking about how it’s ‘so gay that it competes with SU Gems’ (lol. If that were a contest, Willis would be losing like a /chump/)
And that’s /DoA/. With everything else, the default assumption is that literally everyone is straight, or maybe, MAYBE, all but /one character/ is straight (Odds are pretty high that a single bi person is a woman who would just be into an FFM threesome, though /that/ has mercifully dropped). And straightness isn’t just the norm, but it’s to be enforced. One somewhat infamous, in its fandom, example, is a post that mentions, quite pointedly, that only Zarya is a lesbian, and nobody else can be shipped in a gay relationship (so Zarya has no ship), because they wouldn’t do that. This was placed alongside something that probably counts as a bestiality ship – it was more okay to say someone would bang a gorilla than someone of their own gender.
And it’s not some weird outlier, unfortunately. Anything but the most vanilla straightness tends to be trashed. If we’re lucky, at least poly shit isn’t. It’s getting /less/ bad now, but it’s still by /far/ the norm. And not only is it hte norm, but it’s the norm even with people who will crow over how tolerant they are of the gays (Or god forbid, of the lesbians, trans people, bi people, etc.)
The ‘double standard’, isn’t. It is a single standard. “In a culture where straightness crowds out everything else, it is okay to not take straightness too seriously. Otherwise, don’t ignore sexuality” There’s a reason I don’t try to say Billie is gay, for instance. If you were from Classical Era Greece or Sengoku Japan or similar, the rules would be SOMEWHAT different. But you’re not. And in pretty much all of earth right now, the Straights are overprotected. Even less terrible places.
Thanks everybody for the answers. I guess we are all trying to figure this out as we go. I confess sometimes I feel apprehensive about the fact that we are all kind of conducting a massive social experiment from where there’s no way back and about which, we actually don’t have much of an idea what we are doing. But I imagine this is the way it’s always felt for people on the verge of a social paradigm shift and we’re still somehow around and arguably better than before.
A nice way to put it.
Sorry, this is unrelated to today’s strip, but this is something I’ve been wondering for a while.
What exactly is “Glower Vacuum” supposed to mean?
My understanding is that it’s a pun on the phrase ‘power vacuum’ and probably a reference to Ruth’s absence from the hall.
Took me a while to get that, too.
^ and this
which would be the rest of the explanation likely
Nice job, though; I didn’t have a clue!
Also a reference to absence of glowers from where it’s supposed to be and its replacement by the smiles we saw from Ruth the last few strips.
Willis’s titles usually have multiple meanings.
Probably depends on how you interpret it. At the very least a “glower” could be an angry and/or sullen look?
As opposed to something that glows.
It’s a glower, not a shower.
I don’t read the other comics. What is the dumbiverse sexuality rule?
Everyone has the same sexual preference as their counterpart. Robin’s counterpart is into women, so so is she.
More specifically, sexualities from the Walkyverse carry over. Robin liked girls in Shortpacked! (part of the Walkyverse), so she should like them here. However, even in the Walkyverse, Robin didn’t become open about liking girls until she’d been with Leslie for a while, so it’s not surprising she doesn’t realize it, here.
She’s a character in this comic strip. The odds of her being straight are LOW.
An ~66% chance isn’t that low.
I’d like to scream obscenities at Roz right now.
There’s no hint from anyone but Roz (and some side glances) that Robin is actually bi or gay in this universe OR that she’s doing ladies while voting against gay rights. (Which makes this quite a bit different from situations where that does actually happen.)
And to weigh this against “lost helicopter rides” from a couple days ago? Instead of, y’know, something even vaguely similar to Leslie’s reasons? Makes the whole thing even worse.
Leslie deserves some blame here, of course. She should have known just how awful and damaging this plan was and could be and let other things overtake that. But she also realized that she frakked up and she stopped. Roz can’t see anything beyond outing Robin for….what? Pettiness? Her politics? Shame? All of it using gays as props. Bleagh.
Pretty much yeah.
She’s Mary with a tumblr.
Can you imagine what Mary’s tumblr would look like? Probably a cross between Adam4d and a Chick Tract.
What the actual fuck? “Is annoyed her and her professor’s plan didn’t work” is equivalent to anything Mary’s done now?
For wanting to out Robin. For being bummed out that the dumb little queer didn’t play like they’re supposed to. For exposing Leslie’s plan in a huff to Dorothy because she didn’t get what she wanted.
So yeah, Mary with a tumblr.
“Wanting to out robin” is contra the text. “Being bummed her sister didn’t learn empathy” is not “enacted cissexist violence”. Telling Dotty when it looked like her professor was going to is not “Enacting cissexist violence.”
I do not need this shit. I really just fucking don’t.
Roundaboutly revealing Robin’s sexuality because she didn’t get what she wants is bullshit. Exposing her plan to Dorothy in a huff and making Leslie look like an idiot is bullshit. Trying to maneuver a bi woman using her sexuality is fucking bullshit and could easily impact Robin’s life.
You can have your grievances, I’ll have mine. Roz is a piece of shit.
Leslie is making herself look like an idiot. She plainly should have known this wouldn’t work as an exercise in class – she’s the actual fucking adult here. Like, I don’t have a problem with Leslie trying it, because wacky hijinx, but if you want me to have a serious real world opijnion, she fucked up badly on multiple levels.
And Leslie looked like she was going to spill as is. Roz shouldn’t have done it first, but it’s hardly the fucking same. And ‘try to maneuver a bi woman by her sexuality’, yeah, if that’s what you’re calling “Get someone to learn empathy for a group by showing you’re part of that group”, I could not care less about it as a crime. Trying to create commonality with the people driving a boot in our face is hard enough without pretending pointing out they’re actually, factually one of us is wrong.
I’m calling it maneuvering because that’s what it fucking is.
Seriously, you don’t think this a deal, good for you. I do. Shockingly, a straight chick trying to get back at a bi woman using her sexuality, running the risk of exposing her sexuality to the public, is kinda sorta a big fucking deal to me (you know, like how Mary’s actions against Carla are a huge deal to you).
You know,w hen you try to make this comparison to my feelings about Carla, few things here:
1: all of this is just as easy to do to gay women. The fact that Robin is bi is literally incidental to what is my concern here. Nothing you’ve said couldn’t be true if Robin were gay. Like, outing people is sort of a fucking problem we have as gays too. It’s not like it fucking stopped. It’s just less of one because we’re less numerous than you (More prominently placed, but less numerous.)
So when I’m saying ‘this isn’t a big deal’, I am kind of fucking applying it to my situation. I don’t think it’s a big fucking deal to point out to someone who isn’t straight that they aren’t straight, even if they deny it. Even if the speaker is straight. If that’s ‘maneuvering someone by their sexuality’, then that isn’t a fucking wrong thing to do.
2: I didn’t, and don’t, call Mary a piece of shit. She’s, if not Tiny, still quite young. I want her to not do these things. I want her to learn. I do not think she’s the scum of the earth. This is in spite of saying that she has been violent, in no uncertain terms. Mary, more than most dumbs, needs to be less like she is now. And that’s a big part of why. But it’s not going to get me to call her scum of the earth.
So you know, don’t compare yourself to me here. Also, just to get a bit further into fucking relevance – even if I did call Mary a piece of shit, deliberately trying to get someone killed is still worse than what Roz is fucking doing. When you compare them like this, in such a 1:1 way? You sort of fucking ellide that. She’s not “Mary with a tumblr” until she tries to harrass someone until they commit suicide.
To be clear, outing someone is fucking bad. But when you’re cutting off someone else who looks like they’re about to do it anyway, there’s not much to say. You should have kept your mouth fucking shut (Bloody nitwit of a Het) but you thought the secret was out anyway, b/c Leslie would say. It’s /also/ not the same as just straight up blabbing outside of that circumstance.
Also, lol at this whole thing of trying to box me off while simultaneously relating to me. “This is totally different from you” yes I would never use someone’s experiences not fitting comfortably in their assigned gender role to try to draw a parallel with trans people. That is completely not a thing I would consider doing. Anything to try to avoid denying we’re crazy people who are totally weird and not understandable.
Like, no. these aren’t specifically bi issues. There are those, but not this, right here. I count at least 4 groups I could sub in for what Robin would be, and we could still have this more or less exact conversation, minus the part where you try to box me out on at least 3. Robin has absolutely come up in specific bi issues, but this, right here, is not one of them.
Also, lol. You literally just did everything you accused Roz of doing to me. Why are we even having this conversation? You inadvertently outted me (Having talked about it in the past, even here, is no guarantee that readers here, /now/, would know. I do not tout my status as trans lightly, or at /all/ in general), and you tried to appeal to my perceived rage as a trans person at a cissexist bigot to justify what you were doing with someone’s heterosexism – if that’s not maneuvering me by a status as an outsider to that status, I don’t know what else would be.
Like, I’m not particularly mad about the latter here. I am myself saying it’s fine, after all. But you’re /doing/ it, and you’re saying not to. As far as the former, I’m just assuming you’re forgetting because you’re pretty up front with your status as bi, and I am up front with /other/ statuses.
You’ve literally said how big a deal Mary’s treatment of Carla is in this comment chain you fucking pillock.
“Wanting to out robin” is contra the text. “Being bummed her sister didn’t learn empathy” is not “enacted cissexist violence”. Telling Dotty when it looked like her professor was going to is not “Enacting cissexist violence.”
Like of whaddya know I wonder why I made that comparison it is a fucking mystery.
“Trying to box you out.” Christ on a cross. Just shut the fuck up, seriously.
Like seriously I do not fucking get you. Half the time you’re willing to politely and jovially engage with me about this comic and we get along and everything is fine and then you pull this crazy bullshit on me whenever I have the gall to fucking see something different than you and you have to make sure I know I’m a giant piece of shit for it.
I’m sorry. I shouldn’t be responding to you this way. It’s just really frustrating feeling like this here, where I read your posts and it feels like you’re trying to dismiss my own experiences and making accusations of me.
I quite pointedly did not mention my being trans. Given the full context, I made what could plausibly be an allusion to it, but that context is lost on most readers (not the least of which because I was using a different SN and avatar at the time; like, /seriously/ here, even if in general I might need to explain, I really shouldn’t have to argue that you outed me in this case. It should be immediately obvious how you did so once I mention it). You made a direct comparison to how you’re bi, so of course you care about bi issues, just like I care about trans issues. *YOU* are the one who announced my status. And I’m reasonably confident (all the moreso now) that you know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, you’re exactly correct and stating the unvarnished truth with that comparison – because I said as much in the (what, 8 month?) past. I’m pretty sure you aren’t even making an educated guess. Which means, yes, you outted me.
All I said was that Mary enacted cissexist violence – I did not specify this was a special issue to me, because I’m like Carla (I /could/ have also specified her heterosexist violence, I guess? But she didn’t go as far out of her way for that, so it seemed at least a /little/ less relevant to mention). I don’t mention I’m trans in general, much less in public. Cissexist violence should not be a thing only trans people care about. I mean, yeah, in fairness, it generally /is/, but it shouldn’t be.
I’m not /angry/ here. There’s a reason I’m not – I get how you fucked this up, and I recognize it /as/ a fuckup. I’m pointedly not thinking of you as evil. Because even a grievous error is, at the end of the day, an /error/. When I say you outted me, I’m telling you so you /know/, and know not to do it again, not to pillory you as a monster. Shit fucking happens. But because shit fucking happens, maybe look at what is, to all appearances*, a nearly identical error and not fucking go off on how a fuckup is the same as intentionally trying to kill people. It’s not. Even if I /hated/ the would-be killer, it would /still/ not be the same (If anything, I would have more reason to seperate them out, not less.)
I do not always fight you. Much less like this. Even when we are not seeing eye to eye. Even when we are not seeing eye to eye on important issues. Pretty much everything with Amazi-girl bears that out, I think. There, I sometimes thought you were wrong, or sometimes just thought “well okay then”, or other such things. Here, I think you are fucking up – grievously, now, and not grievously but notably, before.
*There’s a fair bit more leeway to assume utter asshattery of a straight person, at least, especially given that bi folks are less assholes on trans issues than even gay cis people. It’s just that stops holding water when the comparison point is a genuine wellspring of hate, who tries to encourage others to hate as openly as she does.
Honest to Christ here, I didn’t recall. I know it was important to you and that’s about it, and that’s why I made that comparison. It’s important to me because I’m bi, it’s important to you for Reason X. That’s how I was thinking of it.
I am careful not to do these things because I know it can be horrifying to be outed against your will in real life. That’s why you suggesting I’ve committed some grievous fuck up over something like this is driving me up the wall.
(That’s an in-universe hint at her sexuality, not what Walky has told us out of universe.)
Er, Willis. I need more coffee and less rage.
NOT RAGE ENOUGH
Leslie deserves most of the blame, largely because she’s the adult and the teacher and should damn well have known that conspiring with one student to bring someone to class as a guest speaker for the purposes of seduction is way the hell out of bounds, regardless of any of the other awful circumstances.
I’ve been assuming, though it’s never been explicitly made clear, that Roz knows Robin is interested in women, whether Robin’s admitted it to herself or not. The whole plan makes absolutely no sense otherwise. I’m also not sure that the plan, even from Roz, was to publicly out Robin, rather than something more like Leslie’s – mostly to push her to admit the attraction to herself and hope that would start to change her attitude.
…What in the four hells makes you think Roz wants to out her sister, so much as teach her empathy? She agrees with Leslie that was the plan, fer chrissakes.
And Roz went out of her way to make a plan happen. Pressuring Leslie because of it is a little shitty, but grumbling about it privately, which is what she’s doing here and with the helicopter thing? She’s fucking allowed.
Exactly. Leslie says RIGHT HERE that the plan was never to out her – it was to hook her up with Leslie and either distract her from her politics or (ideally) teach her she was wrong to be a heterosexist/cissexist asshole.
it’s possible for Leslie and Roz to have different aims.
It is, but it’s countertextual right now unless you just assume Roz is the worst.
That’s true, but we’ve seen no indication Roz’s aims are different – she’s pretty vocal, I think if that was her plan, she’d be clear about it.
As it is, I’ve always read this plan as ‘Hmmmmm, my big sis seems interested in this girl. Maybe if I get them close enough, they’ll hit it off and Robin won’t be a shithead to LGBT+ folks anymore! Or, if not, at least she’ll be distracted from her campaign. And have a cool girlfriend! Win/win, either way, really.”
Okay, I am embarrassed to admit it took me several looks to realize that thing on Marcie’ arm in the picture is a band aid, not a fingernail. I was wondering where the hell she suddenly grew a third arm before I looked closer.
I will now be hiding under a rock.
Leslie, you gotta get your shit together. Trying to seduce people in class? This isn’t good for my autobiography. i want to be president, you know?
Wait like… where was it first mentioned that Robin might be gay? Where was it suggested that this is a rumor (that even Dorothy knows of) or anything?
It’s not a rumour – Dorothy is asking because Leslie was trying to seduce her, by Roz’s admission. Roz got the idea by the way Robin looked at Leslie. She is Robin’s sister – presumably she knows what Robin with a crush looks like.
This is the first time the question has even come up in comic.
First time explicitly. Leslie’s been pretty blatant to Roz about wanting to seduce her and Roz specifically suggested wearing something with cleavage – which implies that Roz thinks Robin would be affected by the cleavage.
We know OOC from SP! that she’s very likely bi & closeted – even to herself. Roz appears to know this – which isn’t that surprising. Not uncommon for people close to you to figure it out before you admit to yourself.
She’s the Crazy Ex-Girlfriend. She’s so broken inside.