Yeah. Crooked party bosses in New York wanted to get hm out of their hair. Back then the VP did basically nothing. Then McKinley got shot less than a year into office.
Yeah, and they let him off scot free for at least thirty something counts of breaking and entering and burglary and one count of impersonating Santa. Admittedly, Whoville was a giant noise complaint but still, the Grimch broke into everyone’s house. He knows all the layouts of their homes now and the Whos have only his say so that he’ll never pull something like that again.
Only when I have the sudden realization that something from my childhood is, in retrospect, creepy. Which is more often than I’d like. Maybe I’m slowly becoming a cynical asshole. Maybe I just don’t like Dr. Seus anymore. I honestly don’t know which of those options saddens me more.
If the Grinch hated the Christmas noise so much that he went to such lengths to stop it for one day, what did he do during the summer about the Who’s lawn mowers?
Yeah… I’m starting to see some anti-boundary aspects of the culture that gave us a lot of otherwise-good literature. It’s a culture where the abusers are forgiven at the expense of the victims, in order to keep the peace. Some of the Discworld books illustrated the way that culture sees itself as necessary. Small towns, where witches play the Ruthless role to keep people in line for their own good. And if they take advantage now and then, it’s okay because they’re the good guys and aren’t we lucky they haven’t started with the cackling and building gingerbread houses? :/ I love the books about the witches, but I don’t agree with Granny Weatherwax on a few important matters of morality.
The way I see it at the moment, that was the best system people could come up with once, but not any more. We’re starting to understand more about neuroscience and learn healthier ways of interacting with people. Boundaries being one of the cornerstones.
In Discworld, if the witches didn’t meddle and trample all over people’s boundaries, those people would make tragic mistakes, being too weak and foolish to do better. In our world, weaknesses can be addressed with medication, therapy and other such treatments. Education can teach people skills to manage their own lives intelligently (although we still can’t *make* someone learn). People have some chance of escaping abusive situations, of choosing to *not* sacrifice themselves for someone else’s idea of the greater good. There’s still a lot of problems, but it gives people the freedom to choose what’s best for themselves, and it turns out there are plenty of areas where the conventional wisdom does more harm than good.
The funny thing is that I think there’s various examples of the Discworld witches using their head-ology to stop other people who are overstepping other sorts of boundaries and stuff and using unconventional wisdom where conventional wisdom is causing a problem. Which yeah, makes it maybe a bit awkward all around.
It’s the establishment of a class, profession, etc who are socially justified in messing with you/overriding your agency “for your own good.” Sometimes it works, sometimes it really doesn’t; and those who have experienced it firsthand tend to have Opinions.
Where I think Discworld mostly succeeds is that it doesn’t portray the witches (especially Granny) as unambiguously heroic. They can be rather meddlesome biddies.
They are ultimately good people, yes, but Granny is also a bit of a bully who will show up and ruin your puppet show for fun and would rather be feared than liked, and Nanny is a drunken thief and gossip who tyrannizes her daughters-in-law. Magrat and Agnes are nicer, but that’s because they are more naive and inexperienced, and haven’t learned how to properly manipulate people yet.
I also think it’s important that Headology isn’t magic. It’s a way of messing with people, yes, but there’s nothing supernatural about it, so it isn’t any more “overriding your agency” than a TV commercial or a political speech is. Manipulative and amoral, yes, but technically anyone can do it.
Always wanted Granny to encounter Captain Carrot. I think what he does is basically a different flavor of Headology (he’s so charismatic and friendly you don’t realize he’s messing with you), and would love to see just how she reacted to figuring that out.
Huh, would you give an example?
Granny and Nanny don’t believe in fairy tale stories where people have to fill a specific role that cannot change – as depicted in witches abroad (I think).
Tiffany learns that whitching is a lot about cutting old men’s toenails, telling people lies so they move their privy farther from the well is more efficient than explaining about germs, and sitting with the dying.
In his last book, Tiff gets a male apprentice who introduces “sheds” to the men who are no longer working away from home and are getting on their wives nerves.
So where do you see a transgression of ethics worth mentioning?
@IllogicalBobcat: the problem is that this part of Discworld logic isn’t from Discworld, it’s from England. Plenty of people *do* apply it to this world.
@Doctor_Who, CJ: There are times when Headology gets uncomfortably close to emotional abuse. Nanny Ogg’s daughters-in-law do her chores out of fear. That’s not healthy. I don’t remember if there’s any clear signs of it crossing the line, but the way the book downplays it grooms people to accept that kind of thing as normal and not speak up when it *does* cross the line.
Tiffany learns about the generally-harmless lies, but she also learns that the girl who was abused has to stay with her abusive family and the dad can’t be punished for his abuse because… I need to look this part up… (oh hey, there’s one book I haven’t read. guess I’m buying that soon 🙂
…in I Shall Wear Midnight, Seth Petty is the abusive father, and Tiffany does try to get rid of him but his wife takes him back (after he almost kills his daughter and does cause her miscarriage). https://wiki.lspace.org/mediawiki/Seth_Petty
I don’t have that book, so I can’t look up exactly what happened, but I remember it making a lot of excuses for the abuser. Pratchett has a good understanding of how people end up being abusive, but then buys into the whole “just work around the missing stair” thing. :/
Tiffany is also taught to accept that as a woman and a witch, she won’t get credit for anything if it would threaten Man Feelings, and this is Just How It Is. And we find out that the one girl who was a wizard grew up to regret it. So much reinforcement of outdated gender roles 🙁
The people of Whoville learned to fear the mighty Grinch, for his wrath was such that he would threaten the extinction of an entire holiday, if pushed too far.
He sees you when you’re sleeping, he knows when you’re awake, he’s watching you sleep… silently watching, nude body glistening in the moonlight, as his “heart” grows three sizes…
I really don’t see “She made a face that’s kind of similar to a character in other media who was redeemed” as particularly invective of future moral change no.
That’s a pretty specific thing, and considering since…
I’m not asking why she wants one or thinks she deserves one, but why on Earth would she be expecting it? She’s grinning like she won something. What is happening in her head?
Mary is thinking that Ruth “changing her ways” is going to include not going after her for being a bigot. She’s fully expecting to be able to get away with her BS like she did while she was blackmailing her.
She doesn’t see Ruth stopping her from being transphobic as something she was *supposed* to be doing as part of her job. She puts that in the same category as slapping her in the face.
This is probably just a statement of the obvious, but putting “not letting me be transphobic” in the same box as “slapping me directly in the face”, is a pretty good indicator that you’re a complete sociopath.
Then again, Mary was gonna call her the C-word right before the slap, NOT something deserving of a slap but yeaaaaaaah Mary is not exactly a innocent victim there
It kinda looked to me like Ruth’d already planned to slap her before that..I mean it’s pretty funny and I’m not losing any sleep over Mary getting hit in the face.
Not turning her in to the competent authorities to have her blackmail dealt with? I mean, she’s just being allowed to stew in her illness, and that’s wrong.
the only reason Ruth shouldn’t do anything for now is it’ll look like sour grapes… and if she’s sincere about shaping up, that means trying to not get fired.
Huh. I’d thought Mary having to undergo the (non-sexual) walk of shame down the hall, with even Sierra glaring angrily at her, would’ve made her rein it in at least a little bit. Shows what I know.
Mary deserves an apology from Ruth, Ruth can see that even though Mary is a d-bag so that’s growth but Billie can’t see it yet
Mary also deserves *insert whatever punishment you think appropriate here* for her behaviour but that is separate to the issue of Mary being deserving of an apology from Ruth
Only in the sense that each has wronged the other.
There is a rather drastic difference in the scale of the wrongs committed.
Willingly putting someone’s life are risk is a much worse thing to do to someone than slapping them.
Gloating to their girlfriend about having done so, belittling their relationship, and asking for permission to do it to someone else is a dramatically worse thing to do than punching them in the face for having done that.
Obviously Billie should not just let go of all restraint and go around just punching anyone who pisses her off, but without having shown even a hint of remorse for her own vicious actions, Mary is owed nothing.
Ruth’s assault of Mary is genuinely something she should apologist for (Or should have before all the other shit Mary pulled afterword sin this case) Billie pouching Mary? not so much.
I think it’s more about who’s the bigger person here. Mary pulled a lot of shit and deserved some repercussions prom that but it doesn’t make Ruth or Billie hitting her right either. They all three are in the wrong in some way. So Mary deserves and apology BUT she should also definitely apologize and reconcile with them. Will that happen? Probably not, but someone has to do the right thing even if the other won’t.
She’s a fundamentalist who unlike Joyce even at her worst genuinely enjoys hurting people who are different from her. Basically she’s a bully with a bible. I really don’t think its productive to try to read mental illness into that, especially since many people with mental illness don’t do any of the shit Mary’s done.
Maybe I phrased that wrong. Not the bigger person as in “Haha I’m better than you” moral self-righteousness type thing. It’s about being a decent person. Apologizing to Mary is the right thing to do because she deserves it, but also because it’s part of the process of being a better and healthier person. It’s not even necessarily for Mary’s sake at this point. It’s the same for Mary. She owes apologies to many people. She should probably be on her knees begging for forgiveness just so that she can recognize her own toxic behavior and change for the better.
Your not phrasing it wrong I just don’t agree with you on a basic level. I don’t think an apology is really worthwhile for yourself. An apology should be given for the other persons sake. If its not being done for that reason its kind of masturbatory. And I Don’t see apologizing to Mary after everything that’s happened as being a decent person. I see it as wasting time.
Further I still don’t agree that Billie even remotely owes Mary anything except perhaps another punch.
Hey, fair enough. I would return with how can anyone expect someone like Mary to change without offering some sort of olive branch. Maybe it’s the optimist in me that thinks this is a journey that would be easier if they worked together. I guess it really depends on if you think Mary is irredeemable. I don’t because I personally know and am directly related to people just like her. So I still think an apology could potentially help both parties.
As far as punching? I just have to say no. I’m not some big anti violence advocate but this isn’t a fantasy comic. Billie and Ruth are both a little to quick to punch. Just look at how they first met. You start punching every asshole? First, that’s a battle you aint winning cause they are just too many. Second, where’s the line? How long before you look in the mirror and don’t recognize the monster ypu’ve become!? How long?!
But hey again just my opinion. And can I just say it’s refreshing to have a conversation like this without someone typing a big “FU, you’re wrong!” and calling me a “cuck” or something?
But why’s it on Ruth to try to change Mary? The only one who is responsible for Mary’s actions is Mary. I don’t know if I’d call Mary irredeemable but I don’t see why people are speculating on her ability to be redeemed when she has shown no desire to change herself. People can change in all sorts of amazing ways but they have to WANT to change first.
I won’t argue that Billie or Ruth don’t rush into Violence too quickly but I’m mostly referring to the specific circumstances of Billie punching Mary. By this time Mary had almost coused her girlfriends death, and was openly offering to commit transphobic harassment in her name.
“Cuck” is still one of the weirdest reactionary buzzwords out there.
Ruth should apologize to Mary for slapping her. That was, at the time, unjustified and uncalled for.
Billie shouldn’t apologize. Not only had Mary earned it by then, it was needed to keep her from continuing to do harm. I suppose sweet pranks would be better, but if you can’t pull that off, sometimes you have to fall back to punching.
@Zatar. Ruth doesn’t have to change Mary but someone like Mary probably isn’t going to change herself. She’s a character that deserves pity, not contempt (Pfffft. No she deserves a lot of contempt too.) But have you noticed that Mary doesn’t have any friends and never did. I think she went to church with as a group once but that was it. She’s actually alone and the few people that even tolerated her, like Sierra. They now hate her. That’s really sad. Even “Ryan” an all but confirmed rapist has bros and someone willing to save him from vigilante justice. You can tell she doesn’t want to be alone. Why is she advocating so hard for manditory group prayer? It’s very worrisome actually. Her faith’s all she has at this point. If she ever loses that I think she’d be the one with suicidal depression.
I really don’t see Mary losing what little tolerance she had as all that sad to be honest. This is due to her own actions. We also Don’t really know that she doesn’t have friends outside the dorm. For all we know she has church friends who are just as judgmental and awful as her.
(should probably note that when I use “Tolerance” in this sentence I mean other peoples ability to tolerate Mary, not Mary’s ability to be tolerant which has always been at zero.)
“Mary. As a good Christian, I need you to turn the other cheek?”
“Like this, Ruth? Is this how you apologize?”
WHAP!
“OW!”
“Good one, Billie. Now turn the other cheek, Mary …”
I assume Mary is standing perfectly straight and only her ankles are… angled. That’s worded awkwardly. But maybe not even that, only her toes are bending… or maybe not even that, somehow.
“Mary, I’m sorry you’re such a horrible self-righeous asshole and I hope you get a clue how unpleasing being near you really is before someone who isn’t me pushes you down a staircase.”
I’d really like to see it turn on her. “I’m sorry… that I didn’t defend Carla as I should have. Your bigotry is not going to be tolerated, and you’re getting reported as soon as this meeting is over. It’s already assured I’m staying, so there’s nothing really you’ve left in your arsenal.” Billie, Carla, and probably Roz would be able to attest to Mary’s nastiness.
Why does something “Need” to? Why are you giving the benefit of the doubt to someone who has shown no desire to change? Tolerance meetings aren’t going to help because she doesn’t want to be tolerant. a psychologist won’t help because she has no real mental issues, she’s just a terrible person.
Also I never suggested murdering? I don’t know why you think I did? The worst I’ve suggested is throwing her out of the Dorm/college. And I don’t think that’s particularly unreasonable.
If they throw her out, she’ll continue hurting people elsewhere. She must be dealt with, and Some1 ruled out murdering, so tolerance classes are probably it.
Ah, that was one of my favorite moments. Not because of the person saying the quote, but because of the context and what happens in the last panel. If we could get a similar moment for Mary…
If Mary hadn’t blackmailed Ruth and Billie that wouldn’t have had to separate, if Ruth isn’t alone her depression and alcoholism continues to stew but she doesn’t get help because Billie is fucking terrible at figuring that shit out. If Mary hadn’t insulted Carla, Carla would have never gotten involved…
Without Mary, Ruth would not have pushed Billie (her only support) away to hide their relationship from her. She would not have had the constant looming threat needling her and pushing her closer to the edge.
Then when Chloe got called in because people found out Ruth was suicidal, Mary tried to stop her from intervening.
Billie isn’t great support though, she’s not a bad person, but she wasn’t doing the right thing not telling people about Ruth’s issues. Don’t get me wrong Mary is terrible, but she did help push things along (albeit accidentally)
Besides it’s much more satisfying to feel that Mary supplied the tools to her defeat
Like it makes the whole thing ironic, but I’m not really going to be awarding Mary any brownie points for fucking up a murder attempt to the point of inadvertently saving the person she tried to bloodlessly kill.
Why would I give Mary anything she’s a horrible person, however she would probably be more upset to learn that she helped in some fashion. This isn’t a method of forgiveness, it’s a method of revenge.
Granted it’s not a method of either, as Mary is a fictional character who I can neither forgive not take revenge on.
Do you think she was actively trying to kill her? I feel like realizing that her actions were likely to lead to Ruth’s death (had things gone according to her plans) would require more empathy than Mary has.
Mary isn’t like Robin, who caused harm out of irresponsible carelessness and a stubborn refusal to seriously examine the consequences of her actions.
Mary is very deliberate about causing harm, because with her, it’s not an accidental byproduct but the actual goal. And of course Mary wouldn’t have seen it as murder, or accept the even a hint of responsibility (as we’ve already seen). Because from her point of view, it can’t really be murder of they’re not really people. They don’t really matter.
Mary would simply see it as playing her part in God’s plan for sinners.
Hell, she even cracked jokes about nearly murdering Ruth including singing “ding dong the witch is dead” and saying that Ruth got “what she deserved”.
I have no doubt if she had succeeded with what she was doing (whether or not she would admit at the time what she was doing) then she’d find a way to let herself off the hook for her role in that while also celebrating Ruth’s death in a similar gauche and cruel style.
so basically mary accidentally saved ruth by trying to ruin her existence
… … …
nah, because that means that mary’s responsible for carla’s choices and i don’t agree with that. people aren’t like pinballs, y’know? mary did mary’s actions and she’s not responsible for anything beyond that. if mary hadn’t been there, she wouldn’t have blackmailed ruth; she wouldn’t have escalated an already bad situation; nothing that mary did was helpful, basically. and if anything good came out of her actions it’s because the people around her made it happen
like. mary would have been perfectly happy to continue blackmailing and terrorizing ruth. the only reason she didn’t get to is because other people stepped up to the plate
(One of those things that makes me blow my stack is when people do that half-assed “I’m sorry if you were offended/hurt” thing, like it’s the other party’s fault for not realizing they were in the way of someone else’s assholery. So, nicely done.)
That is sometimes the only thing you can honestly apologise for, though. Although “I’m sorry THAT you were offended/hurt” is better, as it acknowledges that you know the other person truly was. But when someone gets offended/hurt by something that you didn’t know would hurt them or anyone, and the only thing actually wrong with it (and some people would say that didn’t count as something wrong with it) is that someone felt bad when you did it, there’s nothing *to* apologise for except that they felt bad.
Well, generally if you hurt or offend someone on accident you would at least also include, “I won’t do it again”. The exception is when someone’s trying to be manipulative (letters 507 & 507 at Captain Awkward are good examples). Someone who’s hurt you won’t bend to their doesn’t get a real apology.
But even someone as simple as say, trying to give someone a nickname you didn’t know would upset them should get a “I won’t do it again”.
You can be sorry someone was hurt by your actions and not think your actions are wrong. When people phrase it that way, I view it as more of an affirmation of feelings or an offering of condolences than an acceptance of fault. People can feel neglected based on rational and justified priorities, and that feeling still sucks and you can still empathize with someone for having them. Behind on studies and so you have to minimize social interactions? A friend is going to get shorted on time. Most likely they understand, but they can still miss you or feel abandoned or slighted. “I’m sorry I haven’t been around BUT (insert reason your totally not sorry)”… might not be honest if you truest felt what you did was right and the “BUT” with an excuse can totally negate the apology with excuse making. “I’m sorry you felt alone and I missed you too” can be more honest in that you aren’t apologizing for your priorities but still empathizing that it’s sucked.
If Ruth does give Mary an apology, I hope it’s along the lines of this brilliant apology. I despise Fox News, but this was a rare moment of awesome from them.
Oof. While that was a beautiful performance, the background guffaws during the detailed description of domestic violence were…unpleasant. But like you said, Fox News, not like they care about women in the slightest.
Leave it to Mary to turn Ruth’s sincere attempt to admit to her failings as an RA and promise to change her behavior for the better into another opportunity to twist the knife.
I am actually really relieved to see Ruth’s comment, here. She actually noticed her own knee-jerk, violent response to stressful encounters! And has made the connection between that and her grandfather’s abuse! It’s so, so wonderful to see this moment of growth for her.
(Don’t get me wrong, Mary continues to be incredibly, incredibly irritating and just a terrible person all around. But yeah, glad to see that someone with a propensity for violent outbursts (i.e., Ruth) is starting to realize that maaaaaybe she should think about things a bit more before using violence as a way to communicate.)
Panels 1-2: “Redemption is a rare and special thing.”
So here’s the thing. I’m deeply proud of Ruth here. It is not easy to own your fuck-ups in such a public and earnest way and to accept fully the consequences that may come with that. And to do that after the day she’s had, literally only coming back from the hospital for suicide watch today and then going through a horrific amount of abuse and locked into a job she hates with folks who’ll be looking to take a pound of flesh out of the former dictator of the halls, that takes guts.
And it’s that last part that makes this feel like such a giant mistake. Is it valuable for her to make a clean-break with her past as much as she can? Definitely and clearly it deeply matters to her that the Ruth going forward moves away from the Ruth who took her feelings of being trapped out on others.
But this is not the time that is at all safest to do this. Like, she’s going to be emotionally raw and worst yet, is going to be (as we see later in this strip) more likely to accept unreasonable bullshit out of said rawness and vulnerability. And to folks like Mary, such displays of vulnerability draw a bright red target on your back.
And given all she’s been through, I worry a lot that she’s going to be a lot more willing to internalize nasty gaslighting from Mary or strings of verbal abuse like Rachel tried to throw earlier at her. Especially given what we see by the end of the strip.
Like, it can be good to apologize, but you also want to make sure you’re in a real good headspace when you do.
Panel 3: That said, these apologies are good. They are specific to actual acts of wrongdoing whether or not the person viewed them as such and shows a full recognition of what actions were harmful, which is a key part of actual growth out of a self you no longer want to be. And there’s even an active resistance to falling back into the pattern she is apologizing for.
She’s behaving like a human being. She’s just behaving like the worst sort of human being. A bully who gets off on exploiting power wherever she can find it, with a sense of false righteousness given to her by her interpretation of her religion that allows her to have plenty of “acceptable targets” to visit her special brand of cruelty to.
She’s basically Mike Pence if he was young and a girl.
The weird thing is that she does horrible things, but asks for incredibly small payment. You’d think she would have asked for money or something but she wastes her blackmail being petty. Mary would be so much more effective if she would stop with the bigoted bullshit, leave Carla alone unless she fits into the plan and just accept that she’s evil.
Granted, if she wasn’t so petty, she probably would have won, so…
Yeah, funny thing about humans is that the price tags they put on things vary between people.
One man’s trash being another man’s treasure.
Or in this case Mary’s religion being a free pass to harm people she can use it to justify her bullying. Honestly keeping that “right” is probably worth more to her than whatever small amount of money she could extort from Ruth.
Just like special interest groups who throw millions at politicians to protect the same sort of “rights” on a larger scale. So yeah, getting some sort of victory here probably means everything to Mary here…if only to make sure that blackmail she didn’t cash in soon enough doesn’t go to waste.
Situations like:
– a butt
– a running wood chipper
– a larger, more disgusting butt
– a dumpster full of burning diapers
– a butt that is somehow also a wood chipper
Panel 4: But at the same time, we see signs of Ruth slipping into the danger zone here. What she’s apologizing for here? I fully understand why she is apologizing. To see a fellow survivor of an awful abusive dad and realize you don’t have the spoons to actually help them? It feels like absolute dog shit and I get fully why Ruth feels a sense of failure from her inability to be there for Amber when she needed it.
That all said, well, this is a self-abusive apology that is tipping way too far in the direction of overly apologizing for things that are absolutely not her fault. Like, Ruth was physically incapable of providing mentorship and no amount of wishing would make that different.
Additionally, it is not something Amber actively sought and Ruth rejected. Like, Amber has always feared seeking out mentors for stuff like this or even talking about feelings with lovers or friends. No amount of Ruth being perfectly available would have made Amber any more able to talk about what was going on.
And the self-abuse becomes very apparent with the specific apology of a “more stable confidante”. It’s a beating herself up over her own mental illness and the limitations thereof and it’s the first big sign of just how dangerous her trying to do her apologies and ownership of actions here and now is. Because she’s been rinsed by an abuser and only just got out of the hospital and so she’s going to be prone not only to apologize to actual negative actions, but also not meeting her abuser-imposed impossibly high standards for her role as RA.
Maybe she’s still feeling guilty about kicking over Amber’s chair fort (which could possibly have hurt Amber)? Maybe extra-guilty since she was channeling her rage at Grampus at the time? And she’s looking for something more rational to pin that guilt on?
…. ….. yeah, I think I’ve finally found a nickname that works for Clint. Grampus. Portmanteau of Gramps and Krampus.
I fully believe you are right. Still definitely a case of apologizing for a thing that is absolutely in no way her fault.
Also, I love it. But I also love calling him “sir” in quotes because I’m an anti-authoritarian at heart and I know nothing tweaks power-tripping assholes like sarcastic “respect” for their faux authority.
im so amazed that like. ruth recognized that shit was going on with amber and that amber needed support. like. five seconds. five seconds with a triggered amber. that was all it took.
I get apologizing for being unable to help even when it’s not your fault. A few years ago I was in a mutually self destructive relationship with a girl who had mental health problems very similar to my own. Our respective self destructive impulses fed on each other and we spiraled out of control. I eventually broke up with her because I realized if I didn’t, I was literally going to die. Long story short it went very badly. She got stalky, a behavioral pattern she’d exhibited before, she made blatant threats of violence against someone I cared about, and responded poorly. A few weeks later, she called in the middle of the night and I ignored the call. I found out a few days later she killed herself that night. For a long time I couldn’t help but wonder if answering that call would have saved her.
Panel 5: And it’s here we see the fullest of the danger and the fullest exploitation of that headspace and willingness to own mistakes.
Like, yes, was Ruth’s action to slap Mary in response to a shitty power play and some threats pretty shitty? Yeah, definitely. Like yeah, Mary was actively trying to bully her into jumping when she demanded and looking for an excuse to berate her and call her bad at her job for not sacrificing her academics for her. But Ruth could very easily have just kept walking like she was doing or shut her down with a nasty glare instead of striking her. And this was before Mary really upped her awfulness game.
That said, I’m 100% with Billie that Ruth absolutely should not apologize here despite that. Because of the direct and violent context here.
Ruth may have slapped Mary, but Mary tried to straight up murder her, exploiting her mental illness and her sexuality to cut away her bare minimum support network, undermine any attempt to hold on to functionality, and blackmail and abuse to the point of complete emotional collapse. And all for what?
A chance to try and force her fellow floormates to convert to her religion? An open ticket to harass and attempt to bully to death a trans student? Getting rid of one more queer and driving her out of a shared space?
An apology here, with Mary showing absolutely no willingness to own what she did, the violence inherent in that, is dangerous and ends up being a weapon of abuse, minimizing the open and much greater violence Mary committed and putting Ruth in the position where she feels in order to fully embody her genuine attempt to do right, she must accept this unequal exchange of apologies and the power that lends Mary to pretend to be the real wronged party in this exchange.
And that especially resonates these days, because of the rise of a particularly dangerous strain of far-right fascism in America. Where liberals are expected to take the “high road” and tut-tut someone punching Richard Spencer while Spencer goes around openly calling for genocide and where folks are out there getting stabbed and killed and body slammed by a far-right force who feels no pressure whatsoever to reciprocate that high ground or even own the violence of their actions.
And it’s what’s allowed openly genocidal statements, laws, and actions to be viewed as non-violent while we tut-tut even the barest attempt at resistance to said horrifying acts and trends.
And it preys on the same vulnerability Mary is exploiting here. That Ruth wants to be a good person, that Ruth wants to live by the values she ascribes to being a good person. And Mary’s using that kindness on her part as a fucking power play. To reset the bounds of normal and make even the slightest acknowledgment of what actually happened feel unfair.
Like, Mary was before these strips, worried and concerned and backing off. Here she is openly returning to her old ways when she bullied Ruth to suicide and Ruth is in a headspace where she is just taking it, which is what makes this so damn heartbreaking and why I am so happy that Billie is not even remotely taking this bullshit.
And you can see that this worming exploitation of Ruth’s headspace is working because she openly folds in Billie’s punching of Mary into all this.
Billie has nothing to apologize for her punch. Mary was openly taunting Billie about nearly murdering the woman she loves and was asking for special permission to do the same to the person who, though Billie is intensely mad at her, nonetheless intervened in time to save said woman she loves.
There is no fucking way that a punch is a disproportionate response to that and for Ruth to fold that in shows just how much her head-space is all fucked up and why doing this sort of intensely emotionally vulnerable work now after the day she’s had was a really bad idea.
And I worry a lot about what Mary will do going forward. Cause she’s feeling on top and with an advantage again and smiling her cruel head off and that can only mean bad things for a good solid swath of the entire cast.
I don’t know on that last point though: Mary’s leverage is gone, the entire floor is on to her, and though I doubt pudding-head put two and two together so she isn’t in any actual trouble, this seems like she’s getting her last shot in while she can. Mary is the type that will try to spin anything into a victory, after all…
Like, Ruth is showing here that she is in a vulnerable headspace and will bow to pressure from Mary to do what she wants. Like, this? This is a power play to see how much she can get away with despite what she did. And by doing it she sees that two of the factors working against her are no longer in play.
A) Ruth is still in an emotionally fragile place and may still be pushed by Mary and exploited, just not through the blackmail attempt.
And B) Ruth will stop Billie from following through on her threats thus defanging the physical risk in continuing to pull her game.
Plus, I strongly suspect that as Roz is upset and knows about the room switch for Billie, it’s been a topic of rant, so Mary very likely knows that her main obstacle Billie is leaving the floor soon and that Ruth crumbles into the ground without her.
Like, this has all been one big “game on” signal in her head and that smile, to me, says she sees that and is seizing the moment.
Also C) the authority whose job it is to remove toxic swamp fires like Mary from the situation has demonstrated that she has absolutely no interest in doing so. This is an eviction (if not expulsion) situation, yet Chloe’s view is “meh, you kids can sort it out”.
And yeah, re the room switch the only conceivably-appropriate apology I can see from Ruth is “I’m so sorry we don’t get to throw you out of this dorm yet and let you start being hell on earth for another one instead.”
Nonono, this is when Mary has to double-down. She has to. Her only advantage right now is that Ruth’s off-balance. Tactically, she needs to KEEP Ruth off-balance in order to keep that advantage. And while the positional/authoritative advantage over Ruth is gone, as a predator, she smells psychological weakness and knows it’s time to strike.
Yeah, it’s pretty obvious that Mary is trying to pull some sort of a “win” out of this.
Which hopefully will be derailed somehow, because whether or not Ruth slapping her was appropriate behavior, what ended up happening later on seems like it should absolve Ruth of having to give Mary the satisfaction she’s angling for.
That said, I’m not sure who would call her out on her shit right now, if Ruth or Billie don’t.
Rachel maybe, though whether she’d step up to bat for Ruth or not is a hard thing to predict. On one hand she seems pretty willing to call anyone out on things and she’s defied Mary’s attempts to control situations before, but on the other, she’s been the only other person who was willing to speak up about Ruth being a horrible RA.
Cerberus, I just want to say how much I love reading your comments – the first thing I do when I’ve read the strip of the day is to see if you’ve commented. You’re so good at analyzing and I’ve learned a lot of stuff from reading what you write.
Oh shit, I just noticed something. Her body language here is deeply similar to her body language with “sir” minus the pinprick greyed eyes. Same sort of intensely static pose, unnatural standing straight, slightly flinched shoulders.
None of her usual animated motions, very little motion in general. And very little facial dynamism.
She’s stuck in full on “apologizing to ‘sir'” mode right now. Which is a really dangerous headspace to be apologizing for past (actual) wrongs in.
Yup, she’s still in the “freeze” from yesterday. Though I think this is less of a “don’t notice me freeze” and more of a “tense up waiting for the emotional and/or physical blows” freeze
RUTH, DON’T FUCKING APOLOGISE TO MARY.
SHE IS UNDESERVING OF BASIC HUMAN DECENCY.
SHE TRIED TO GAMBLE WITH YOUR LIFE SO SHE COULD HOLD YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH BILLIE OVER YOUR HEAD.
SHE’S FUCKING WORTHLESS AND HORRIBLE.
Also, here’s a thing I haven’t understood, no matter how many times I re-read this comic: Why can’t people just go pick up their clothes? Ruth tossed some gloves out the window, but it’s not like Joyce is physically prevented from going outside and getting them. Walky’s shoes may have ended up down the hall, but there’s no reason they couldn’t have been retrieved without consequence. Unless I’m missing something, and college operates on “In the tree, part of the tree” rules?
“Mary, I owe you more apologies than anyone. I apologize for the lack of structure that I’ve let fester on the floor. I apologize for not reining you in sooner. I apologize for the slack discipline that has allowed you to think that an ever-worsening pattern of abuse towards your floormates is acceptable. I apologize for allowing you to get away with harassment, extortion, open bigotry, and worse. I apologize for allowing you to walk away from those encounters thinking that these actions will be acceptable in the future. I apologize for letting you think they will be ALLOWED in the future. And I deeply, deeply apologize for just how big of a hammer I’m going to bring down on your head the moment you step one inch out of line again.”
“Really? You’re sorry for what you’re going to have to do for her?”
“No, Billie. ‘Apology’ means explanation, defense, or justification. I won’t be sorry. I’ll be JUSTIFIED.”
(Yes, I know, Ruth’s not on her game enough for this. But it’d be so very awesome.)
“…an assault-ish type vehicle, no weaponry, but built for war.”
“Wait, why are you describing a jeep with such vague terms?”
“Well, I was reading a webcomic, and-”
“Oh, so you just wasted an hour of my time. Get out of my used car dealership!”
“Yeah, it seemed assault-ish, but turns out they were working at the Renn Faire!”
“Oh, actors… That makes sense.”
“So, yeah, we’ll have to go somewhere else…”
“The way those kids are playing seems a bit assault-ish, we I’m gonna go break it up.”
“Umm… Cool, maybe when you get back you can tell me why you keep saying assault-ish.”
“Mary, you’re a thoroughly unpleasant person who takes joy in hurting others and has a disturbing need to have a victim that you can bully as well as a terrifying lack of self-awareness about the immorality of these behaviors. I’ve been neglectful in my duty to help you with these problems and I promise, in future, that I’ll do whatever it takes to do so… No matter how long or painful the process is for you.
The problem of course is that I think Ruth is still far too vulnerable to trust herself to wield such power at the moment. Just another reason why going straight from hospital back down the rabbit hole that lead to her breakdown is such a bad idea. Pulling a “reset switch” is probably one of the cruellest things “sir” has done to her.
Indeed, there is hope however in Billie. She is in Very protective mode right now and will bring down the hammer on anyone trying to take advantage on Ruth. Let’s hope that will be enough to give her time to recover.
And Joyce still has one good fist. And amazi-girl has two, although that might not be good for Amber right now.
There’s something else making me feel hopeful, though. I can’t quite put my finger on it, but, I suspect Ruth has a chance of winning here. Some way to either shut Mary down or just fail to give her the reward she’s after.
To be fair Ruth and Mary were always equally abhorred by the people living there. But Ruth just made an effort to apologize and own up to her crimes. Seeing how most of the people here seem decent their hate for Ruth will lessen and Mary is BOUND to do something to earn the “Dickhead of the Dorm” award. Would be hilarious if everyone in the room sided with Ruth against Mary XD And she probably wouldn’t even know Why.
When you make the chillest and nicest (besides Joyce) character look at you like that you should rethink your life choices.
Also I find it way too amusing that Rachel was the one who gave the “multi-tasking” line. Now she’ll be able to stop multi-tasking and will focus on a single target.
Rachel is pretty much the straight woman to everyone’s crazyness/zanyness in all her appearances. She’s probably the representation of the sane USAmerican (c’mon, fess up, we know you’re hiding the poor fella SOMEWHERE).
Ruth used Words! It’s super effective! 😉
I’m gonna pretend that last panel doesn’t exist for now, and just stick with being impressed with Ruth’s ability to use words. Words are hard.
Mary, I apologize that you exist, because your very existence is one of the strongest arguments available against the existence of a kind and loving God, and fending off that kind of existential anguish would be awful if you had even the slightest inclination to be a decent person, or the shred of intelligence and humanity that it would take to consider such matters.
Sorry I haven’t made it clear that your hateful bigotry isn’t welcome here and that if Hell is real, you should at least be happy you’ll get to join Reaghan.”
To talk about literally anything other than Mary, I like what this strip means for Ruth’s character development.
Ruth cloyingly begging forgiveness should be terrible. This whole chapter should be terrible. She gets everything handed back to her, she still has Billie only now they can be out in the open, Mary is defanged and can only eek out petty victories such as this. She’s won.
Instead the context of the situation goes a long way of adding drama to that situation. Clint is basically a reverse Deus Ex Machina, handing Ruth everything back in a way that solidifies how horrifying the situation really is and plopping Ruth into a job that, oh sure, she wants to do better at now, but she lacks the tools to function at it. She’s apologetic to a dorm that either actively hates her, or cares about as much as Ruth’s personal journey of self discovery and chair throwing as much as Getaway did for Megatron (look it up!).
And, lest we forget, Billie is Ruth’s primary enabler for alcohol, and we’ve gotten no indication that she’s planning on stopping.
So, yeah, as someone who’s run the exciting gamut of actively loathing Ruth to passively tolerating her presence, I’m pretty excited where things are going.
I may be misreading this here, but your post comes across as … gleefully enjoying the pain and danger that Ruth is in? And excited to potentially see more of that, driving her further down into darkness and depression?
Like, you don’t have to like Ruth. You don’t have to forgive her past mistakes. But that sort of schadenfreude directed at an abuse victim, someone who struggles with mental illness, and someone honestly trying to make amends and be better … that just feels gross. :/
It’s a character drama. I like when dramatic things happen to characters. I like that I’m invested in a character I’ve previously loathed, so a story that’s literally “hey here’s a bunch of nice things happening to Ruth except UH OH it might be terrible” peaks my interest.
I’m not some degenerate pervert getting off on seeing a depressed abuse victim suffering.
No, no, I apologize. I should have phrased myself better, I just got really agitated when you suggested I was getting schadenfreude out of Ruth’s predicament due to her being a depressed abuse victim, since Ruth’s situation is something I also live with, and it irked me even more considering it’s something I put up with here as well, so I didn’t want to think of myself as contributing to that.
More specific on Mary here. I see a lot of folks having ideal “apologies” that would shut down Mary in an important way. And well, that’s what’s so sick and twisted to how Mary’s approaching this.
Ruth is trying to do “turning over a new leaf and owning up to past mistakes” and for that, is trying not to slip back into old habits or send a message that she’s going to be one nasty episode away from doing all the things she is trying to make a clean break from here. Her stopping herself from making a naivety joke at the expense of Joyce demonstrates it.
And that’s made all the more pressing because of who is here. Joyce is exceedingly impressionable and taking notes, Rachel is already not inclined to trust Ruth’s attempt to grow and improve, and Amber is a painful reminder of who she could scare if she slips back into old ways.
And so Mary demanding an apology puts Ruth in a very specific trap. If she refuses to apologize as she should or if she “apologizes” for something that centers the horrific actions Mary has done in semi-secret, she’ll come off as insincere in her attempt to turn a new leaf and may lose a lot of trust.
As such, the pressure is exceedingly high on her to take the higher ground here and be more willing to concede things to Mary than she should. And that’s what’s so dangerous about this moment happening here and now and in public. And it’s what Mary is intentionally exploiting here to get a humiliated apology from the woman she nearly killed and regain that sense of power in their dynamic.
And it’s all the worse because trapping Ruth into actions she doesn’t want to do and recognizes as harmful to her safety is exactly what “sir” grampus just got done expertly doing to her in brutal fashion and Mary is inserting herself into a similar space for a similar feeling of power over her.
And I think it is that part that’s deeply politically relevant to me. Where one’s good intentions and ideals are used as a cudgel and a trap. Kind of like how liberal ideologies of diversity, free speech, and nonviolence have been used to try and trap liberals in being unable to resist a terrifying rise of neo-nazis in this country.
Because any time we use violence in the minimum by breaking some property or punching a fascist, we feel trapped into tut-tutting it to live up to that ideal of nonviolence. Any time we recognize a fascist intentionally coming on a college campus for the purpose of recruiting to a hate movement and being able to push directed harassment for the purpose of driving specific individuals out of the school, the fascists lean hard on how it is somehow their free speech to be given student money and a platform without pushback or that it is somehow a crime against diversity to not allow folks actively committed to destroying diversity wreak havoc.
And we’ve seen it used to try and push heavily against any rights or means of resisting a campaign to actively target, harass, and kill us. Like, laws against protests are becoming more and more common and nazis are getting more and more brazen about pouring out in force in specific locations for the sole purpose of beating up a lot of people knowing that the cops will do nothing to stop them and the general people are going to feel too trapped by desires to be fair or non-violent to stomp them flat like European anarchists do when the neo-nazis pop up there.
Mary isn’t a neo-nazi. At least I don’t think she is (though give the Republican Party a few more years of normalizing neo-nazi rhetoric and tactics as “conservatism” and who knows, the ever-shifting now might change that). But this same exploiting Ruth’s attempt to apologize and make good to demand a specific apology from the person she nearly killed shows that similar combination of absolutely not giving a fuck about ethics or doing the right thing and seizing on any vulnerable moment as a “weakness” to be exploited.
And that especially hits home on a night where a giant crowd of assholes in Montana out of party loyalty and a genuine belief that acts of violence and cruelty make one “manly” just elected a neo-nazi who body-slammed a reporter simply for asking him an incredibly fair question on policy. Because not committing violence on reporters is a normal and good thing if you’re white and conservative.
Uh, in that last sentence, is that “not” a slip-up? Because, while it turns the sentence into something that SHOULD be true, that seems at odds with both current reality and the rest of the post.
I think the Montana dude has a lot of work ahead of him – how does he expect to have a successful political career? Assaulting a MALE reporter? Pffft, we all know that, in the Republican front, it’s targeting women that gets you the big boy votes. He’s never going to be president like that.
The important thing right now is for Ruth to make a fresh start here. And yes, that does mean apologizing for the assualt-ish things she did. It’s about creating a baseline state, a place where she can work from, less her-as-jesus, but more her as the her she wants to be.
But that doesn’t mean groveling. And that sure as hell doesn’t mean ignoring the things that Mary has done. Calling her out on her bigotry towards Carla seems completely acceptable here: Mary’s actions and words back then took place in full public view towards another member of the hall, it’s an action that Mary went unpunished for as a result of leverage that Mary no longer has.
And it also sets up an important part of who Ruth is trying to make herself: Good at her job as an RA. Speaking up for a marginalized person who deserved better and giving Mary notice that her bullshit will not fly here? That’s important too.
Not related to any of this specifically, but… am I the only one who thinks comparing Dump to Cave Johnson is a no-brainer (much like Trump himself)? #CitizenCave
Admittedly, I <a href="twitter.com/ScholRLea2/status/867777062203006977 "tweeted this joke on that topic a few days ago, but I don’t think anyone noticed. I doubt anyone here will notice it either, even if it doesn’t get modded down, but hey, whatev.
… Okay I know what you were going for, I’m just snickering because the easiest way for Ruth to shut up Mary now is to point out what “friend of Dorothy” means. XD
I’m trying to remember who was there when someone asked about Joyce, “friend of Dorothy?” (our Dorothy), and she said, “Oh yes, the biggest!” Ruth, Joyce, and maybe Billie?
“Well, I slapped her so hard in the face I left a permanent marker stain on it well before she turned into a full fledged irredeemable bongo, and you flat-out decked her.”
“She deserved it, though.”
“Well, yeah…what about that time I chokeslammed YOU, though? Doesn’t that indicate I might resort to violence a little too easily?”
“I got off on it, though.”
“…point taken. Mary, go fuck yourself. We’ll be in our bunk.”
There was an immense pattern of bands and swirls, all in shades of gray. A girl stepped up to the pattern and began touching it. The parts she touched turned blue or pale blue. Another girl came forward. Her touch brought green and pale green to the pattern. A third girl added shades of yellow.
Everyone looked at Mary, expecting her to finish coloring the pattern by adding red and rose-pink. Which Mary desperately did -not want to do. Because she’s -not- like Those Other Girls.
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no, Ruth, the correct answer is “…nah”
no wait, that’s wrong
“nah, bruh”
“no you’ve deserved everything we’ve done and more and are a toxic blight on Indiana.”
So toxic, in fact, that as soon as you’re old enough we’ll be getting rid of you by electing you vice president.
I guess we’ll see how well that works.
Turns out it actually doesn’t, it just spreads it further.
Isn’t that basically how Teddy Roosevelt became President?
Yeah. Crooked party bosses in New York wanted to get hm out of their hair. Back then the VP did basically nothing. Then McKinley got shot less than a year into office.
Mary I want to say assault is bad, but you’re purposely making the most punchable face you can
Well, she’s a Christian. Punch her in the nose, and then demand forgiveness! And then do it again!
Nah, slap her. She’ll turn the other cheek, so you can slap her again.
If anyone slaps a dick on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also.
She’ll turn the other cheek. She basically has to.
…. I don’t think she’s that type of Christian.
She’s Whateversbestformeatthemomentarian. A virtually unheard of, yet extremely common sect.
Where’s Carla when we need her? 😀
I’m certain someone similar to Mary served as muse for the German word-compounding genius who invented the word ‘backpfeifengesicht’.
There’s the word.
is that “face in need of a backhand”
…slap
Basically Mary.
Doesn’t The Grinch change in the end? That bodes well.
And his head grew three times its original size?
Yeah, and they let him off scot free for at least thirty something counts of breaking and entering and burglary and one count of impersonating Santa. Admittedly, Whoville was a giant noise complaint but still, the Grimch broke into everyone’s house. He knows all the layouts of their homes now and the Whos have only his say so that he’ll never pull something like that again.
Must you ruin everything
Only when I have the sudden realization that something from my childhood is, in retrospect, creepy. Which is more often than I’d like. Maybe I’m slowly becoming a cynical asshole. Maybe I just don’t like Dr. Seus anymore. I honestly don’t know which of those options saddens me more.
If the Grinch hated the Christmas noise so much that he went to such lengths to stop it for one day, what did he do during the summer about the Who’s lawn mowers?
How The Grinch Salted the Earth and Brought Blight and Famine to all of Whoville is the much darker prequel. /sarcasm
I would read that.
The Cat in the Hat had boundary issues as well. It just wasn’t obvious until they made him ridiculously fluffy in a live action movie.
Yeah… I’m starting to see some anti-boundary aspects of the culture that gave us a lot of otherwise-good literature. It’s a culture where the abusers are forgiven at the expense of the victims, in order to keep the peace. Some of the Discworld books illustrated the way that culture sees itself as necessary. Small towns, where witches play the Ruthless role to keep people in line for their own good. And if they take advantage now and then, it’s okay because they’re the good guys and aren’t we lucky they haven’t started with the cackling and building gingerbread houses? :/ I love the books about the witches, but I don’t agree with Granny Weatherwax on a few important matters of morality.
The way I see it at the moment, that was the best system people could come up with once, but not any more. We’re starting to understand more about neuroscience and learn healthier ways of interacting with people. Boundaries being one of the cornerstones.
In Discworld, if the witches didn’t meddle and trample all over people’s boundaries, those people would make tragic mistakes, being too weak and foolish to do better. In our world, weaknesses can be addressed with medication, therapy and other such treatments. Education can teach people skills to manage their own lives intelligently (although we still can’t *make* someone learn). People have some chance of escaping abusive situations, of choosing to *not* sacrifice themselves for someone else’s idea of the greater good. There’s still a lot of problems, but it gives people the freedom to choose what’s best for themselves, and it turns out there are plenty of areas where the conventional wisdom does more harm than good.
The funny thing is that I think there’s various examples of the Discworld witches using their head-ology to stop other people who are overstepping other sorts of boundaries and stuff and using unconventional wisdom where conventional wisdom is causing a problem. Which yeah, makes it maybe a bit awkward all around.
I’m not sure Discworld logic is anymore applicable to this world than Hitchhiker’s Guide logic.
It’s the establishment of a class, profession, etc who are socially justified in messing with you/overriding your agency “for your own good.” Sometimes it works, sometimes it really doesn’t; and those who have experienced it firsthand tend to have Opinions.
Where I think Discworld mostly succeeds is that it doesn’t portray the witches (especially Granny) as unambiguously heroic. They can be rather meddlesome biddies.
They are ultimately good people, yes, but Granny is also a bit of a bully who will show up and ruin your puppet show for fun and would rather be feared than liked, and Nanny is a drunken thief and gossip who tyrannizes her daughters-in-law. Magrat and Agnes are nicer, but that’s because they are more naive and inexperienced, and haven’t learned how to properly manipulate people yet.
I also think it’s important that Headology isn’t magic. It’s a way of messing with people, yes, but there’s nothing supernatural about it, so it isn’t any more “overriding your agency” than a TV commercial or a political speech is. Manipulative and amoral, yes, but technically anyone can do it.
Always wanted Granny to encounter Captain Carrot. I think what he does is basically a different flavor of Headology (he’s so charismatic and friendly you don’t realize he’s messing with you), and would love to see just how she reacted to figuring that out.
Yeah, and therapists don’t have any supernatural powers either, but some can still mess you up pretty good (and for years after).
Huh, would you give an example?
Granny and Nanny don’t believe in fairy tale stories where people have to fill a specific role that cannot change – as depicted in witches abroad (I think).
Tiffany learns that whitching is a lot about cutting old men’s toenails, telling people lies so they move their privy farther from the well is more efficient than explaining about germs, and sitting with the dying.
In his last book, Tiff gets a male apprentice who introduces “sheds” to the men who are no longer working away from home and are getting on their wives nerves.
So where do you see a transgression of ethics worth mentioning?
@IllogicalBobcat: the problem is that this part of Discworld logic isn’t from Discworld, it’s from England. Plenty of people *do* apply it to this world.
@Doctor_Who, CJ: There are times when Headology gets uncomfortably close to emotional abuse. Nanny Ogg’s daughters-in-law do her chores out of fear. That’s not healthy. I don’t remember if there’s any clear signs of it crossing the line, but the way the book downplays it grooms people to accept that kind of thing as normal and not speak up when it *does* cross the line.
Tiffany learns about the generally-harmless lies, but she also learns that the girl who was abused has to stay with her abusive family and the dad can’t be punished for his abuse because… I need to look this part up… (oh hey, there’s one book I haven’t read. guess I’m buying that soon 🙂
…in I Shall Wear Midnight, Seth Petty is the abusive father, and Tiffany does try to get rid of him but his wife takes him back (after he almost kills his daughter and does cause her miscarriage). https://wiki.lspace.org/mediawiki/Seth_Petty
I don’t have that book, so I can’t look up exactly what happened, but I remember it making a lot of excuses for the abuser. Pratchett has a good understanding of how people end up being abusive, but then buys into the whole “just work around the missing stair” thing. :/
Tiffany is also taught to accept that as a woman and a witch, she won’t get credit for anything if it would threaten Man Feelings, and this is Just How It Is. And we find out that the one girl who was a wizard grew up to regret it. So much reinforcement of outdated gender roles 🙁
The people of Whoville learned to fear the mighty Grinch, for his wrath was such that he would threaten the extinction of an entire holiday, if pushed too far.
He sees you when you’re sleeping, he knows when you’re awake, he’s watching you sleep… silently watching, nude body glistening in the moonlight, as his “heart” grows three sizes…
How the Grinch Got Arrested!
I really don’t see “She made a face that’s kind of similar to a character in other media who was redeemed” as particularly invective of future moral change no.
Nope, he died of a massive heart attack.
Apologize away… but deal still stands!
i think it’s ok for ruth to apologize as long she appends it with “but you’re still the worst”
Well at least they’ve acknowledged it.
Wait, what does Mary expect an apology for?
Ruth did hit her once, and that was before her time as arc villain
That’s a pretty specific thing, and considering since…
I’m not asking why she wants one or thinks she deserves one, but why on Earth would she be expecting it? She’s grinning like she won something. What is happening in her head?
Mary is thinking that Ruth “changing her ways” is going to include not going after her for being a bigot. She’s fully expecting to be able to get away with her BS like she did while she was blackmailing her.
She doesn’t see Ruth stopping her from being transphobic as something she was *supposed* to be doing as part of her job. She puts that in the same category as slapping her in the face.
This is probably just a statement of the obvious, but putting “not letting me be transphobic” in the same box as “slapping me directly in the face”, is a pretty good indicator that you’re a complete sociopath.
It’s a pretty specific thing and she should get a very specific apology for it.
“I’m sorry you’re such an unmitigated douche. So, so sorry. You have no idea how sorry I am about that.”
“I’m sorry I didn’t kill you when I had the chance. And keep it up and I will release the Billy.”
expecting it?
There’s this weird Christian thing about forgiving people…
If it was about forgiving, she’d be the one doing it.
Ruth slapped (a dick onto) her face back in Book 4 Chapter 4, during the Case of the Whiteboard Ding Dong Bandit.
She didn’t really even deserve it that time soooooo….. Ruth has all the blame on that one.
Then again, Mary was gonna call her the C-word right before the slap, NOT something deserving of a slap but yeaaaaaaah Mary is not exactly a innocent victim there
It kinda looked to me like Ruth’d already planned to slap her before that..I mean it’s pretty funny and I’m not losing any sleep over Mary getting hit in the face.
Having a ding-dong slapped onto her face.
Damn, three responses, one minute apart.
Not turning her in to the competent authorities to have her blackmail dealt with? I mean, she’s just being allowed to stew in her illness, and that’s wrong.
Billie, after Sir, has a lot of “what can I solve by punching?” loaded up and ready to go.
Mary’s smile is even creepier up close.
“I should not have hit you for openly being a bigot and attempting to blackmail me, Mary”
“That was an error on my part. Attempt either of those things again and you will face repercussions with the school administration.”
This. This right there.
the only reason Ruth shouldn’t do anything for now is it’ll look like sour grapes… and if she’s sincere about shaping up, that means trying to not get fired.
Huh. I’d thought Mary having to undergo the (non-sexual) walk of shame down the hall, with even Sierra glaring angrily at her, would’ve made her rein it in at least a little bit. Shows what I know.
mary learned nothing!
That would imply Mary is capable of change.
I mean, she could get worse.
True.
You don’t need to change when it’s everyone else who’s wrong!
There you go in one.
Pretty common mindset. It’s weird because I could swear we were taught about the concept of Lowest Common Denominators in like middle-school.
And don’t forget- the LORD GOD is on your side…
Totally don’t have to change anything, ever, when the creator of the infinite universe totally agrees with your prejudices.
ruth could apologize for slapping mary so hard her cheek turned red
She also forced a bunch of people (including Mary) out of an elevator once
i forgot about that
Ruth I think this is the one situation were no one will fault you for assault.
Mary is a no-one.
This comic is in desperate need of more Joyce-Mary interactions.
Did you mean Ruth-Joyce?
(Mind, Mary-Joyce is fine too. Mary could learn a lot from Joyce about being a Christian.)
She could, but she won’t. Rather, Joyce will become more disillusioned and/or even more dedicated to her own path.
Last panel, yes Mary does deserve an apology and that’s showing real growth from Ruth.
Billie not so much
The hell’s wrong with Billie’s attitude towards Mary?
Mary deserves an apology from Ruth, Ruth can see that even though Mary is a d-bag so that’s growth but Billie can’t see it yet
Mary also deserves *insert whatever punishment you think appropriate here* for her behaviour but that is separate to the issue of Mary being deserving of an apology from Ruth
Mary did deserve an apology. Before she helped put Ruth in the hospital and nearly put her in the ground.
That doesn’t make it retroactively OK for Ruth to slap her, but it sure as hell means she doesn’t deserve a damn thing from Ruth.
I’d say things are pretty much even, at least in terms of “I wronged you, and you wronged me back”.
Only in the sense that each has wronged the other.
There is a rather drastic difference in the scale of the wrongs committed.
Willingly putting someone’s life are risk is a much worse thing to do to someone than slapping them.
Gloating to their girlfriend about having done so, belittling their relationship, and asking for permission to do it to someone else is a dramatically worse thing to do than punching them in the face for having done that.
Obviously Billie should not just let go of all restraint and go around just punching anyone who pisses her off, but without having shown even a hint of remorse for her own vicious actions, Mary is owed nothing.
Ruth’s assault of Mary is genuinely something she should apologist for (Or should have before all the other shit Mary pulled afterword sin this case) Billie pouching Mary? not so much.
I think it’s more about who’s the bigger person here. Mary pulled a lot of shit and deserved some repercussions prom that but it doesn’t make Ruth or Billie hitting her right either. They all three are in the wrong in some way. So Mary deserves and apology BUT she should also definitely apologize and reconcile with them. Will that happen? Probably not, but someone has to do the right thing even if the other won’t.
I wonder what Mary’s deal is?
Is she just evil, does she have psychological issues, did tumblr do something to her?
She’s a vicious asshole who believes – without doubt – that God is on her side. It’s a self-sustaining mentality.
She’s a fundamentalist who unlike Joyce even at her worst genuinely enjoys hurting people who are different from her. Basically she’s a bully with a bible. I really don’t think its productive to try to read mental illness into that, especially since many people with mental illness don’t do any of the shit Mary’s done.
apologizing to be “the bigger person” is pointless and insincere. Meanwhile Billie pouching Mary was IMO completely and totally justified.
Frankly , it was incredibly impressive she restrained herself as long as she did
Maybe I phrased that wrong. Not the bigger person as in “Haha I’m better than you” moral self-righteousness type thing. It’s about being a decent person. Apologizing to Mary is the right thing to do because she deserves it, but also because it’s part of the process of being a better and healthier person. It’s not even necessarily for Mary’s sake at this point. It’s the same for Mary. She owes apologies to many people. She should probably be on her knees begging for forgiveness just so that she can recognize her own toxic behavior and change for the better.
Your not phrasing it wrong I just don’t agree with you on a basic level. I don’t think an apology is really worthwhile for yourself. An apology should be given for the other persons sake. If its not being done for that reason its kind of masturbatory. And I Don’t see apologizing to Mary after everything that’s happened as being a decent person. I see it as wasting time.
Further I still don’t agree that Billie even remotely owes Mary anything except perhaps another punch.
Hey, fair enough. I would return with how can anyone expect someone like Mary to change without offering some sort of olive branch. Maybe it’s the optimist in me that thinks this is a journey that would be easier if they worked together. I guess it really depends on if you think Mary is irredeemable. I don’t because I personally know and am directly related to people just like her. So I still think an apology could potentially help both parties.
As far as punching? I just have to say no. I’m not some big anti violence advocate but this isn’t a fantasy comic. Billie and Ruth are both a little to quick to punch. Just look at how they first met. You start punching every asshole? First, that’s a battle you aint winning cause they are just too many. Second, where’s the line? How long before you look in the mirror and don’t recognize the monster ypu’ve become!? How long?!
But hey again just my opinion. And can I just say it’s refreshing to have a conversation like this without someone typing a big “FU, you’re wrong!” and calling me a “cuck” or something?
But why’s it on Ruth to try to change Mary? The only one who is responsible for Mary’s actions is Mary. I don’t know if I’d call Mary irredeemable but I don’t see why people are speculating on her ability to be redeemed when she has shown no desire to change herself. People can change in all sorts of amazing ways but they have to WANT to change first.
I won’t argue that Billie or Ruth don’t rush into Violence too quickly but I’m mostly referring to the specific circumstances of Billie punching Mary. By this time Mary had almost coused her girlfriends death, and was openly offering to commit transphobic harassment in her name.
“Cuck” is still one of the weirdest reactionary buzzwords out there.
Ruth should apologize to Mary for slapping her. That was, at the time, unjustified and uncalled for.
Billie shouldn’t apologize. Not only had Mary earned it by then, it was needed to keep her from continuing to do harm. I suppose sweet pranks would be better, but if you can’t pull that off, sometimes you have to fall back to punching.
@Zatar. Ruth doesn’t have to change Mary but someone like Mary probably isn’t going to change herself. She’s a character that deserves pity, not contempt (Pfffft. No she deserves a lot of contempt too.) But have you noticed that Mary doesn’t have any friends and never did. I think she went to church with as a group once but that was it. She’s actually alone and the few people that even tolerated her, like Sierra. They now hate her. That’s really sad. Even “Ryan” an all but confirmed rapist has bros and someone willing to save him from vigilante justice. You can tell she doesn’t want to be alone. Why is she advocating so hard for manditory group prayer? It’s very worrisome actually. Her faith’s all she has at this point. If she ever loses that I think she’d be the one with suicidal depression.
I really don’t see Mary losing what little tolerance she had as all that sad to be honest. This is due to her own actions. We also Don’t really know that she doesn’t have friends outside the dorm. For all we know she has church friends who are just as judgmental and awful as her.
(should probably note that when I use “Tolerance” in this sentence I mean other peoples ability to tolerate Mary, not Mary’s ability to be tolerant which has always been at zero.)
“Mary. As a good Christian, I need you to turn the other cheek?”
“Like this, Ruth? Is this how you apologize?”
WHAP!
“OW!”
“Good one, Billie. Now turn the other cheek, Mary …”
Meanwhile Joyce sits across the room with her notepad, frantically drawing this interaction as a stick figure comic.
“The apology bag has granted Mary 1 fist and 1 whoops, I was aiming for the space *around* you, so sorry.”
Fists aren’t the solution, I know, but the ARROGANCE, arrrrrrrgh.
I assume Mary is standing perfectly straight and only her ankles are… angled. That’s worded awkwardly. But maybe not even that, only her toes are bending… or maybe not even that, somehow.
She’s doing the thing Michael Jackson did!
Dying of a drug overdose?
Someone photoshop some green on Mary ’cause that’s a real Grinchy smile.
You can Turn The Other Cheek
You can just Give Up The Ship
You can eat a bunch of sushi and forget to leave a tip
DARE TO BE STUPID!
It’s so easy to do!
We’re all waiting for you!
Let’s go!
I can’t hear you!
Okay I can hear you now!
It’s so easy to do!
We’re all waiting for you!
LET’S GO!
“Mary, I’m sorry you’re such a horrible self-righeous asshole and I hope you get a clue how unpleasing being near you really is before someone who isn’t me pushes you down a staircase.”
Don’t forget the battery!
Mary might need some fresh ones.
All Mary needs is the self-righteous hatred of the Lord.
“Mary I’m sorry that I didn’t hit you harder.”
“I’m sorry I’m not going to get the chance to hit you again.”
“I’m sorry we haven’t gotten around to kicking you out of the dorm yet.”
“I’m sorry for holding back my true power during our last fight.”
Watch Mary flip her lid when Ruth apologizes for the slap and not for defending Carla.
I’d really like to see it turn on her. “I’m sorry… that I didn’t defend Carla as I should have. Your bigotry is not going to be tolerated, and you’re getting reported as soon as this meeting is over. It’s already assured I’m staying, so there’s nothing really you’ve left in your arsenal.” Billie, Carla, and probably Roz would be able to attest to Mary’s nastiness.
Mary should be required to go to mandatory tolerance meetings, and maybe a psychologist
Wouldn’t help.
Look something needs to, she’s not entirely gone, way more evil people than Mary changed. And no murdering.
Why does something “Need” to? Why are you giving the benefit of the doubt to someone who has shown no desire to change? Tolerance meetings aren’t going to help because she doesn’t want to be tolerant. a psychologist won’t help because she has no real mental issues, she’s just a terrible person.
Also I never suggested murdering? I don’t know why you think I did? The worst I’ve suggested is throwing her out of the Dorm/college. And I don’t think that’s particularly unreasonable.
If they throw her out, she’ll continue hurting people elsewhere. She must be dealt with, and Some1 ruled out murdering, so tolerance classes are probably it.
Or maiming. Maiming works.
But tolerance classes only help with people who have any desire to improve themselves. She clearly isn’t in a headspace were they’re going to help.
As Cerb quoted yesterday (from OotS):
“Redemption is a rare and special thing, after all. It is not for everyone.”
(Oops, my error – it was the other day, for Robin, and then again today, which I hadn’t read down far enough yet. :p )
Original comic for that for those that are interested:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0464.html
Ah, that was one of my favorite moments. Not because of the person saying the quote, but because of the context and what happens in the last panel. If we could get a similar moment for Mary…
i kind of wonder that there isn’t someone in that world whose main religious obligation includes giving people like that a second chance
idk
Ten hours in class every time she gets reported would be ten hours she isn’t harassing Carla, which helps Carla.
Wait a sec
If Mary hadn’t blackmailed Ruth and Billie that wouldn’t have had to separate, if Ruth isn’t alone her depression and alcoholism continues to stew but she doesn’t get help because Billie is fucking terrible at figuring that shit out. If Mary hadn’t insulted Carla, Carla would have never gotten involved…
I think Mary accidentally saved Ruth…
Without Mary, Ruth would not have pushed Billie (her only support) away to hide their relationship from her. She would not have had the constant looming threat needling her and pushing her closer to the edge.
Then when Chloe got called in because people found out Ruth was suicidal, Mary tried to stop her from intervening.
Mary nearly goddamn killed Ruth.
Billie isn’t great support though, she’s not a bad person, but she wasn’t doing the right thing not telling people about Ruth’s issues. Don’t get me wrong Mary is terrible, but she did help push things along (albeit accidentally)
Besides it’s much more satisfying to feel that Mary supplied the tools to her defeat
She might have been enabling some bad behavior, but bad support is a shit ton better than none at all.
Oh of course, but because of Mary she got good support (again total accident on Mary’s part)
Yeah, but Mary’s intention was to kill her.
Like it makes the whole thing ironic, but I’m not really going to be awarding Mary any brownie points for fucking up a murder attempt to the point of inadvertently saving the person she tried to bloodlessly kill.
Why would I give Mary anything she’s a horrible person, however she would probably be more upset to learn that she helped in some fashion. This isn’t a method of forgiveness, it’s a method of revenge.
Granted it’s not a method of either, as Mary is a fictional character who I can neither forgive not take revenge on.
(ponders)
*evil smile*
Well, in that case… c:<
Do you think she was actively trying to kill her? I feel like realizing that her actions were likely to lead to Ruth’s death (had things gone according to her plans) would require more empathy than Mary has.
Mary isn’t like Robin, who caused harm out of irresponsible carelessness and a stubborn refusal to seriously examine the consequences of her actions.
Mary is very deliberate about causing harm, because with her, it’s not an accidental byproduct but the actual goal. And of course Mary wouldn’t have seen it as murder, or accept the even a hint of responsibility (as we’ve already seen). Because from her point of view, it can’t really be murder of they’re not really people. They don’t really matter.
Mary would simply see it as playing her part in God’s plan for sinners.
Yes. Or at least she recognized the danger of what she was playing with and did not care that that was a likely result of her actions:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-7/01-glower-vacuum/considering/
Hell, she even cracked jokes about nearly murdering Ruth including singing “ding dong the witch is dead” and saying that Ruth got “what she deserved”.
I have no doubt if she had succeeded with what she was doing (whether or not she would admit at the time what she was doing) then she’d find a way to let herself off the hook for her role in that while also celebrating Ruth’s death in a similar gauche and cruel style.
so basically mary accidentally saved ruth by trying to ruin her existence
… … …
nah, because that means that mary’s responsible for carla’s choices and i don’t agree with that. people aren’t like pinballs, y’know? mary did mary’s actions and she’s not responsible for anything beyond that. if mary hadn’t been there, she wouldn’t have blackmailed ruth; she wouldn’t have escalated an already bad situation; nothing that mary did was helpful, basically. and if anything good came out of her actions it’s because the people around her made it happen
like. mary would have been perfectly happy to continue blackmailing and terrorizing ruth. the only reason she didn’t get to is because other people stepped up to the plate
“…as with everything else, it’s the thought that counts.” – Captain John Sheridan.
One of many lovely scenes/speeches.
OMG, YES!
It’s been too long since I’ve watched the show. One of my favorite apologies. 🙂
I miss that show so much.
Okay, now THIS is how you do an apology.
(One of those things that makes me blow my stack is when people do that half-assed “I’m sorry if you were offended/hurt” thing, like it’s the other party’s fault for not realizing they were in the way of someone else’s assholery. So, nicely done.)
That is sometimes the only thing you can honestly apologise for, though. Although “I’m sorry THAT you were offended/hurt” is better, as it acknowledges that you know the other person truly was. But when someone gets offended/hurt by something that you didn’t know would hurt them or anyone, and the only thing actually wrong with it (and some people would say that didn’t count as something wrong with it) is that someone felt bad when you did it, there’s nothing *to* apologise for except that they felt bad.
Well, generally if you hurt or offend someone on accident you would at least also include, “I won’t do it again”. The exception is when someone’s trying to be manipulative (letters 507 & 507 at Captain Awkward are good examples). Someone who’s hurt you won’t bend to their doesn’t get a real apology.
But even someone as simple as say, trying to give someone a nickname you didn’t know would upset them should get a “I won’t do it again”.
You can be sorry someone was hurt by your actions and not think your actions are wrong. When people phrase it that way, I view it as more of an affirmation of feelings or an offering of condolences than an acceptance of fault. People can feel neglected based on rational and justified priorities, and that feeling still sucks and you can still empathize with someone for having them. Behind on studies and so you have to minimize social interactions? A friend is going to get shorted on time. Most likely they understand, but they can still miss you or feel abandoned or slighted. “I’m sorry I haven’t been around BUT (insert reason your totally not sorry)”… might not be honest if you truest felt what you did was right and the “BUT” with an excuse can totally negate the apology with excuse making. “I’m sorry you felt alone and I missed you too” can be more honest in that you aren’t apologizing for your priorities but still empathizing that it’s sucked.
*rereads* I need to stop commenting while on a smartphone. That was awful.
Mary, go fuck yourself.
“Mary, I’m sorry. I’m sorry I didn’t break your nose.”
If Ruth does give Mary an apology, I hope it’s along the lines of this brilliant apology. I despise Fox News, but this was a rare moment of awesome from them.
Even evil (more dumb really) has standards?
Oof. While that was a beautiful performance, the background guffaws during the detailed description of domestic violence were…unpleasant. But like you said, Fox News, not like they care about women in the slightest.
1. Well, this is a pretty good step Ruth.
2. Wipe that smirk off your face Mary. You are owed nothing.
Leave it to Mary to turn Ruth’s sincere attempt to admit to her failings as an RA and promise to change her behavior for the better into another opportunity to twist the knife.
I am actually really relieved to see Ruth’s comment, here. She actually noticed her own knee-jerk, violent response to stressful encounters! And has made the connection between that and her grandfather’s abuse! It’s so, so wonderful to see this moment of growth for her.
(Don’t get me wrong, Mary continues to be incredibly, incredibly irritating and just a terrible person all around. But yeah, glad to see that someone with a propensity for violent outbursts (i.e., Ruth) is starting to realize that maaaaaybe she should think about things a bit more before using violence as a way to communicate.)
That part is really really good, yeah.
Comic Reactions:
Panels 1-2: “Redemption is a rare and special thing.”
So here’s the thing. I’m deeply proud of Ruth here. It is not easy to own your fuck-ups in such a public and earnest way and to accept fully the consequences that may come with that. And to do that after the day she’s had, literally only coming back from the hospital for suicide watch today and then going through a horrific amount of abuse and locked into a job she hates with folks who’ll be looking to take a pound of flesh out of the former dictator of the halls, that takes guts.
And it’s that last part that makes this feel like such a giant mistake. Is it valuable for her to make a clean-break with her past as much as she can? Definitely and clearly it deeply matters to her that the Ruth going forward moves away from the Ruth who took her feelings of being trapped out on others.
But this is not the time that is at all safest to do this. Like, she’s going to be emotionally raw and worst yet, is going to be (as we see later in this strip) more likely to accept unreasonable bullshit out of said rawness and vulnerability. And to folks like Mary, such displays of vulnerability draw a bright red target on your back.
And given all she’s been through, I worry a lot that she’s going to be a lot more willing to internalize nasty gaslighting from Mary or strings of verbal abuse like Rachel tried to throw earlier at her. Especially given what we see by the end of the strip.
Like, it can be good to apologize, but you also want to make sure you’re in a real good headspace when you do.
Panel 3: That said, these apologies are good. They are specific to actual acts of wrongdoing whether or not the person viewed them as such and shows a full recognition of what actions were harmful, which is a key part of actual growth out of a self you no longer want to be. And there’s even an active resistance to falling back into the pattern she is apologizing for.
Those are all excellent points. It’s so hard to draw the line between “standing your ground” and “being abusive” when you doubt yourself.
I fucking called it.
Look, Billie, Ruth, there’s an easy compromise here. Just begin the tradition of saying “oopsi-daisy” every time you assault Mary.
Dear Mary I’m sorry your life choices are so bad and you’re such a reprehensible human being. I mean that from the bottom of my heart.
“Mary I’m sorry-not to you but to Roz. Making anyone room with you is clearly too cruel.”
What the actual fuck is Mary’s problem? Why can’t she behave like a human being?
She uses her religion to justify hurting people who are different and she likes feeling like she has power over people. Its sadly not rare.
She’s behaving like a human being. She’s just behaving like the worst sort of human being. A bully who gets off on exploiting power wherever she can find it, with a sense of false righteousness given to her by her interpretation of her religion that allows her to have plenty of “acceptable targets” to visit her special brand of cruelty to.
She’s basically Mike Pence if he was young and a girl.
The weird thing is that she does horrible things, but asks for incredibly small payment. You’d think she would have asked for money or something but she wastes her blackmail being petty. Mary would be so much more effective if she would stop with the bigoted bullshit, leave Carla alone unless she fits into the plan and just accept that she’s evil.
Granted, if she wasn’t so petty, she probably would have won, so…
Yeah, funny thing about humans is that the price tags they put on things vary between people.
One man’s trash being another man’s treasure.
Or in this case Mary’s religion being a free pass to harm people she can use it to justify her bullying. Honestly keeping that “right” is probably worth more to her than whatever small amount of money she could extort from Ruth.
Just like special interest groups who throw millions at politicians to protect the same sort of “rights” on a larger scale. So yeah, getting some sort of victory here probably means everything to Mary here…if only to make sure that blackmail she didn’t cash in soon enough doesn’t go to waste.
i mean it really depends on what her achieved end is
….. thank you very much for that horrifying image that I will be revisiting in my nightmares tonight.
i just really want someone to photoshop the Mary Lean into situations now
Situations like:
– a butt
– a running wood chipper
– a larger, more disgusting butt
– a dumpster full of burning diapers
– a butt that is somehow also a wood chipper
Who does the butt belong do, I like to think it’s Billie’s
Do you read EGS? Dan drew a similar pose with one of the main characters, and the forums had a blast playing with the pose.
Panel 4: But at the same time, we see signs of Ruth slipping into the danger zone here. What she’s apologizing for here? I fully understand why she is apologizing. To see a fellow survivor of an awful abusive dad and realize you don’t have the spoons to actually help them? It feels like absolute dog shit and I get fully why Ruth feels a sense of failure from her inability to be there for Amber when she needed it.
That all said, well, this is a self-abusive apology that is tipping way too far in the direction of overly apologizing for things that are absolutely not her fault. Like, Ruth was physically incapable of providing mentorship and no amount of wishing would make that different.
Additionally, it is not something Amber actively sought and Ruth rejected. Like, Amber has always feared seeking out mentors for stuff like this or even talking about feelings with lovers or friends. No amount of Ruth being perfectly available would have made Amber any more able to talk about what was going on.
And the self-abuse becomes very apparent with the specific apology of a “more stable confidante”. It’s a beating herself up over her own mental illness and the limitations thereof and it’s the first big sign of just how dangerous her trying to do her apologies and ownership of actions here and now is. Because she’s been rinsed by an abuser and only just got out of the hospital and so she’s going to be prone not only to apologize to actual negative actions, but also not meeting her abuser-imposed impossibly high standards for her role as RA.
Maybe she’s still feeling guilty about kicking over Amber’s chair fort (which could possibly have hurt Amber)? Maybe extra-guilty since she was channeling her rage at Grampus at the time? And she’s looking for something more rational to pin that guilt on?
…. ….. yeah, I think I’ve finally found a nickname that works for Clint. Grampus. Portmanteau of Gramps and Krampus.
I fully believe you are right. Still definitely a case of apologizing for a thing that is absolutely in no way her fault.
Also, I love it. But I also love calling him “sir” in quotes because I’m an anti-authoritarian at heart and I know nothing tweaks power-tripping assholes like sarcastic “respect” for their faux authority.
“Sir” Grampus it is!
Perfect! 😀
So let it be written, so let it be done. 🙂
im so amazed that like. ruth recognized that shit was going on with amber and that amber needed support. like. five seconds. five seconds with a triggered amber. that was all it took.
Remember when Ruth met Blaine and suplexed him?
jesus. i’d forgotten about that!! beautiful.
I get apologizing for being unable to help even when it’s not your fault. A few years ago I was in a mutually self destructive relationship with a girl who had mental health problems very similar to my own. Our respective self destructive impulses fed on each other and we spiraled out of control. I eventually broke up with her because I realized if I didn’t, I was literally going to die. Long story short it went very badly. She got stalky, a behavioral pattern she’d exhibited before, she made blatant threats of violence against someone I cared about, and responded poorly. A few weeks later, she called in the middle of the night and I ignored the call. I found out a few days later she killed herself that night. For a long time I couldn’t help but wonder if answering that call would have saved her.
I hear you.
It wasn’t your fault.
*hugs* And echoing Leorale. It was not your fault and you didn’t have to continue accepting negative stalking behavior to keep her alive.
Panel 5: And it’s here we see the fullest of the danger and the fullest exploitation of that headspace and willingness to own mistakes.
Like, yes, was Ruth’s action to slap Mary in response to a shitty power play and some threats pretty shitty? Yeah, definitely. Like yeah, Mary was actively trying to bully her into jumping when she demanded and looking for an excuse to berate her and call her bad at her job for not sacrificing her academics for her. But Ruth could very easily have just kept walking like she was doing or shut her down with a nasty glare instead of striking her. And this was before Mary really upped her awfulness game.
That said, I’m 100% with Billie that Ruth absolutely should not apologize here despite that. Because of the direct and violent context here.
Ruth may have slapped Mary, but Mary tried to straight up murder her, exploiting her mental illness and her sexuality to cut away her bare minimum support network, undermine any attempt to hold on to functionality, and blackmail and abuse to the point of complete emotional collapse. And all for what?
A chance to try and force her fellow floormates to convert to her religion? An open ticket to harass and attempt to bully to death a trans student? Getting rid of one more queer and driving her out of a shared space?
An apology here, with Mary showing absolutely no willingness to own what she did, the violence inherent in that, is dangerous and ends up being a weapon of abuse, minimizing the open and much greater violence Mary committed and putting Ruth in the position where she feels in order to fully embody her genuine attempt to do right, she must accept this unequal exchange of apologies and the power that lends Mary to pretend to be the real wronged party in this exchange.
And that especially resonates these days, because of the rise of a particularly dangerous strain of far-right fascism in America. Where liberals are expected to take the “high road” and tut-tut someone punching Richard Spencer while Spencer goes around openly calling for genocide and where folks are out there getting stabbed and killed and body slammed by a far-right force who feels no pressure whatsoever to reciprocate that high ground or even own the violence of their actions.
And it’s what’s allowed openly genocidal statements, laws, and actions to be viewed as non-violent while we tut-tut even the barest attempt at resistance to said horrifying acts and trends.
And it preys on the same vulnerability Mary is exploiting here. That Ruth wants to be a good person, that Ruth wants to live by the values she ascribes to being a good person. And Mary’s using that kindness on her part as a fucking power play. To reset the bounds of normal and make even the slightest acknowledgment of what actually happened feel unfair.
Like, Mary was before these strips, worried and concerned and backing off. Here she is openly returning to her old ways when she bullied Ruth to suicide and Ruth is in a headspace where she is just taking it, which is what makes this so damn heartbreaking and why I am so happy that Billie is not even remotely taking this bullshit.
And you can see that this worming exploitation of Ruth’s headspace is working because she openly folds in Billie’s punching of Mary into all this.
Billie has nothing to apologize for her punch. Mary was openly taunting Billie about nearly murdering the woman she loves and was asking for special permission to do the same to the person who, though Billie is intensely mad at her, nonetheless intervened in time to save said woman she loves.
There is no fucking way that a punch is a disproportionate response to that and for Ruth to fold that in shows just how much her head-space is all fucked up and why doing this sort of intensely emotionally vulnerable work now after the day she’s had was a really bad idea.
And I worry a lot about what Mary will do going forward. Cause she’s feeling on top and with an advantage again and smiling her cruel head off and that can only mean bad things for a good solid swath of the entire cast.
I don’t know on that last point though: Mary’s leverage is gone, the entire floor is on to her, and though I doubt pudding-head put two and two together so she isn’t in any actual trouble, this seems like she’s getting her last shot in while she can. Mary is the type that will try to spin anything into a victory, after all…
But her leverage isn’t gone.
Like, Ruth is showing here that she is in a vulnerable headspace and will bow to pressure from Mary to do what she wants. Like, this? This is a power play to see how much she can get away with despite what she did. And by doing it she sees that two of the factors working against her are no longer in play.
A) Ruth is still in an emotionally fragile place and may still be pushed by Mary and exploited, just not through the blackmail attempt.
And B) Ruth will stop Billie from following through on her threats thus defanging the physical risk in continuing to pull her game.
Plus, I strongly suspect that as Roz is upset and knows about the room switch for Billie, it’s been a topic of rant, so Mary very likely knows that her main obstacle Billie is leaving the floor soon and that Ruth crumbles into the ground without her.
Like, this has all been one big “game on” signal in her head and that smile, to me, says she sees that and is seizing the moment.
Also C) the authority whose job it is to remove toxic swamp fires like Mary from the situation has demonstrated that she has absolutely no interest in doing so. This is an eviction (if not expulsion) situation, yet Chloe’s view is “meh, you kids can sort it out”.
And yeah, re the room switch the only conceivably-appropriate apology I can see from Ruth is “I’m so sorry we don’t get to throw you out of this dorm yet and let you start being hell on earth for another one instead.”
If she really thinks billie is moving away and not just into ruth’s room, while someone else gets a free room to themselves, she’s deluded.
But she IS deluded.
Nonono, this is when Mary has to double-down. She has to. Her only advantage right now is that Ruth’s off-balance. Tactically, she needs to KEEP Ruth off-balance in order to keep that advantage. And while the positional/authoritative advantage over Ruth is gone, as a predator, she smells psychological weakness and knows it’s time to strike.
Yeah, it’s pretty obvious that Mary is trying to pull some sort of a “win” out of this.
Which hopefully will be derailed somehow, because whether or not Ruth slapping her was appropriate behavior, what ended up happening later on seems like it should absolve Ruth of having to give Mary the satisfaction she’s angling for.
That said, I’m not sure who would call her out on her shit right now, if Ruth or Billie don’t.
Rachel maybe, though whether she’d step up to bat for Ruth or not is a hard thing to predict. On one hand she seems pretty willing to call anyone out on things and she’s defied Mary’s attempts to control situations before, but on the other, she’s been the only other person who was willing to speak up about Ruth being a horrible RA.
Cerberus, I just want to say how much I love reading your comments – the first thing I do when I’ve read the strip of the day is to see if you’ve commented. You’re so good at analyzing and I’ve learned a lot of stuff from reading what you write.
Same.
Thirded.
I could see an apology for slapping Mary, combined with one for not protecting Carla from her.
I don’t think that would please Mary.
Go orb yourself, Mary
What’s with the orb thing, today?
Look for ‘saudi orb’.
Better yet, look for that and then check out the DoA tumblr!
No, hit her. Everybody hit her. A lot.
I would like Mary to lean out of the panel, preferably in the direction of an open window
I would also like an unfortunate accident to happen while she is leaning towards this window.
Oh shit, I just noticed something. Her body language here is deeply similar to her body language with “sir” minus the pinprick greyed eyes. Same sort of intensely static pose, unnatural standing straight, slightly flinched shoulders.
None of her usual animated motions, very little motion in general. And very little facial dynamism.
She’s stuck in full on “apologizing to ‘sir'” mode right now. Which is a really dangerous headspace to be apologizing for past (actual) wrongs in.
Shit I didn’t even notice that.
Yup, she’s still in the “freeze” from yesterday. Though I think this is less of a “don’t notice me freeze” and more of a “tense up waiting for the emotional and/or physical blows” freeze
I guess she was being more literal about expecting everyone to feast on her corpse than I realize. She really is expecting to be attacked.
And Mary is in a lot of ways like a less subtle “sir.” Fuck this could go really really badly.
RUTH, DON’T FUCKING APOLOGISE TO MARY.
SHE IS UNDESERVING OF BASIC HUMAN DECENCY.
SHE TRIED TO GAMBLE WITH YOUR LIFE SO SHE COULD HOLD YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH BILLIE OVER YOUR HEAD.
SHE’S FUCKING WORTHLESS AND HORRIBLE.
I don’t particularly like Mary.
Also, here’s a thing I haven’t understood, no matter how many times I re-read this comic: Why can’t people just go pick up their clothes? Ruth tossed some gloves out the window, but it’s not like Joyce is physically prevented from going outside and getting them. Walky’s shoes may have ended up down the hall, but there’s no reason they couldn’t have been retrieved without consequence. Unless I’m missing something, and college operates on “In the tree, part of the tree” rules?
Assuming she could find them Joyce could.
They’re not exactly a low-visibility color, though.
Since no one’s said it yet….
Do it, Billie! Oopsi-daisy her FAAAAAAAAACE!
“FAAAAAAAAACE!”
Both of them!
(FAAAAAAAACEs, I mean, not Ruth and Billie. though, that too)
“Mary, I’m sorry…that you’re a sanctimonious asshole.”
Do some nerdy melee and make your nerd brother Howard proud!
Nerdy melee is the best kind of melee.
I want to squish Mary’s face into the ground with my booted heel. Or high-heeled heel.
six inch heel….she walked in the room like nobody’s business…
“Mary, I owe you more apologies than anyone. I apologize for the lack of structure that I’ve let fester on the floor. I apologize for not reining you in sooner. I apologize for the slack discipline that has allowed you to think that an ever-worsening pattern of abuse towards your floormates is acceptable. I apologize for allowing you to get away with harassment, extortion, open bigotry, and worse. I apologize for allowing you to walk away from those encounters thinking that these actions will be acceptable in the future. I apologize for letting you think they will be ALLOWED in the future. And I deeply, deeply apologize for just how big of a hammer I’m going to bring down on your head the moment you step one inch out of line again.”
“Really? You’re sorry for what you’re going to have to do for her?”
“No, Billie. ‘Apology’ means explanation, defense, or justification. I won’t be sorry. I’ll be JUSTIFIED.”
(Yes, I know, Ruth’s not on her game enough for this. But it’d be so very awesome.)
*do TO her.
Curse you typos! Curse you lack-of-preview-function-that-I-wouldn’t-use-anyway!
(nodnodnodnodnod) 8D
I’m going to try to work out some way to work the word ‘assault-ish’ into my daily conversations. The stranger the context, the better.
“…an assault-ish type vehicle, no weaponry, but built for war.”
“Wait, why are you describing a jeep with such vague terms?”
“Well, I was reading a webcomic, and-”
“Oh, so you just wasted an hour of my time. Get out of my used car dealership!”
“Yeah, it seemed assault-ish, but turns out they were working at the Renn Faire!”
“Oh, actors… That makes sense.”
“So, yeah, we’ll have to go somewhere else…”
“The way those kids are playing seems a bit assault-ish, we I’m gonna go break it up.”
“Umm… Cool, maybe when you get back you can tell me why you keep saying assault-ish.”
Amber is all “I was comfortable with you staying out of my way. Please continue to stay out of my way.”
Mary reminds me of Buffo from Midnight Rescue in this strip.
For reference:
https://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/1/14982/910771-super_solvers___midnight_rescue_1.png
Wait….someone else played those games?
Holy fuck. I remember that game! I used to be obsessed with it when I was a young kid.
Mary needs to be put down.
I agree, she should stop levitating like that.
Hahaha.
The “oopsie-daisy her face” line is hillarious, really made my day. Thanks 😀
“Sorry, Mary, I just ran out of apologies, but I think Billie has something for you.”
I’m with billie on this one. Mary can go jump headfirst into a wood chipper.
“Mary, you’re a thoroughly unpleasant person who takes joy in hurting others and has a disturbing need to have a victim that you can bully as well as a terrifying lack of self-awareness about the immorality of these behaviors. I’ve been neglectful in my duty to help you with these problems and I promise, in future, that I’ll do whatever it takes to do so… No matter how long or painful the process is for you.
Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees….
“That also sounds assaultish”
Pretty sure it was meant to…
“Mary, I’m sorry… to inform you that I’m reporting you for your attempted blackmail, transphobic slurs and your destruction of Carla’s property.”
Also, it’s the oddest thing, I can remember many comments standing up for Mary during that last incident. 🙂
I would absolutely love for this to happen. Ruth taking her job seriously and fairly meaning she will drop the hammer on Mary’s behaviour XD
The problem of course is that I think Ruth is still far too vulnerable to trust herself to wield such power at the moment. Just another reason why going straight from hospital back down the rabbit hole that lead to her breakdown is such a bad idea. Pulling a “reset switch” is probably one of the cruellest things “sir” has done to her.
Indeed, there is hope however in Billie. She is in Very protective mode right now and will bring down the hammer on anyone trying to take advantage on Ruth. Let’s hope that will be enough to give her time to recover.
And Joyce still has one good fist. And amazi-girl has two, although that might not be good for Amber right now.
There’s something else making me feel hopeful, though. I can’t quite put my finger on it, but, I suspect Ruth has a chance of winning here. Some way to either shut Mary down or just fail to give her the reward she’s after.
To be fair Ruth and Mary were always equally abhorred by the people living there. But Ruth just made an effort to apologize and own up to her crimes. Seeing how most of the people here seem decent their hate for Ruth will lessen and Mary is BOUND to do something to earn the “Dickhead of the Dorm” award. Would be hilarious if everyone in the room sided with Ruth against Mary XD And she probably wouldn’t even know Why.
I mean, not EQUALLY abhorred – Ruth never made Sierra look like THIS:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-7/01-glower-vacuum/rat/
When you make the chillest and nicest (besides Joyce) character look at you like that you should rethink your life choices.
Also I find it way too amusing that Rachel was the one who gave the “multi-tasking” line. Now she’ll be able to stop multi-tasking and will focus on a single target.
Mary overplaying her hand and getting even Rachel to rise to Ruth’s defense is a fairly likely good outcome here.
I really don’t think so. I think Rachel is here to give us a good character who has a bone to pick with Ruth, rather than leaving that just with Mary.
Rachel is pretty much the straight woman to everyone’s crazyness/zanyness in all her appearances. She’s probably the representation of the sane USAmerican (c’mon, fess up, we know you’re hiding the poor fella SOMEWHERE).
It’s good to see that despite all the shit Ruth went through Mary is still one wrong word away from getting falcon punched.
Ruth used Words! It’s super effective! 😉
I’m gonna pretend that last panel doesn’t exist for now, and just stick with being impressed with Ruth’s ability to use words. Words are hard.
“I apologize for overstepping the bounds of what can reasonably be done to assholes.”
Um. Amber may have needed a stable, available confidante.
She did not need that need to be announced to a roomful of her peers.
Mary, I apologize that you exist, because your very existence is one of the strongest arguments available against the existence of a kind and loving God, and fending off that kind of existential anguish would be awful if you had even the slightest inclination to be a decent person, or the shred of intelligence and humanity that it would take to consider such matters.
That alt-text about Mary leaning into the panel… unless you want to punch her because holy smokes her chin is perfectly set up for a nice uppercut.
But it’s so pointy-looking, you might cut yourself. But then again, most people here, myself included, would be willing to do it anyway.
“Mary, I’m sorry.
Sorry I haven’t made it clear that your hateful bigotry isn’t welcome here and that if Hell is real, you should at least be happy you’ll get to join Reaghan.”
Mary, I’m sorry you seek validation so hard for your personal views.
No, Billie, don’t sound assault-ish!
ACT assault-ish. And also, less -ish.
Only thing Mary deserves is a steamroller drop.
wryyyyyyyy
ROADO ROLLA DAAAA!
Well, today is one of those days I can’t stand reading the comments because I’d get nightmares
I’m sorry that’s the case. *hugs*
“Mary, I’m sorry me and Billie haven’t been making out in front of you more often. We will correct this behavior at once.”
To talk about literally anything other than Mary, I like what this strip means for Ruth’s character development.
Ruth cloyingly begging forgiveness should be terrible. This whole chapter should be terrible. She gets everything handed back to her, she still has Billie only now they can be out in the open, Mary is defanged and can only eek out petty victories such as this. She’s won.
Instead the context of the situation goes a long way of adding drama to that situation. Clint is basically a reverse Deus Ex Machina, handing Ruth everything back in a way that solidifies how horrifying the situation really is and plopping Ruth into a job that, oh sure, she wants to do better at now, but she lacks the tools to function at it. She’s apologetic to a dorm that either actively hates her, or cares about as much as Ruth’s personal journey of self discovery and chair throwing as much as Getaway did for Megatron (look it up!).
And, lest we forget, Billie is Ruth’s primary enabler for alcohol, and we’ve gotten no indication that she’s planning on stopping.
So, yeah, as someone who’s run the exciting gamut of actively loathing Ruth to passively tolerating her presence, I’m pretty excited where things are going.
I may be misreading this here, but your post comes across as … gleefully enjoying the pain and danger that Ruth is in? And excited to potentially see more of that, driving her further down into darkness and depression?
Like, you don’t have to like Ruth. You don’t have to forgive her past mistakes. But that sort of schadenfreude directed at an abuse victim, someone who struggles with mental illness, and someone honestly trying to make amends and be better … that just feels gross. :/
You are mistaken, yes.
Ok, my bad then. I am not sure what you are trying to get across with the original post though.
It’s a character drama. I like when dramatic things happen to characters. I like that I’m invested in a character I’ve previously loathed, so a story that’s literally “hey here’s a bunch of nice things happening to Ruth except UH OH it might be terrible” peaks my interest.
I’m not some degenerate pervert getting off on seeing a depressed abuse victim suffering.
Ok. That makes a lot more sense. >.>
Again, sorry for misinterpreting. I… relate pretty strongly with a lot of her struggles.
I agree that I am excited to see where her arc goes, while at the same time I just wanna hug all my precious DoA babies and make them happy. :3
No, no, I apologize. I should have phrased myself better, I just got really agitated when you suggested I was getting schadenfreude out of Ruth’s predicament due to her being a depressed abuse victim, since Ruth’s situation is something I also live with, and it irked me even more considering it’s something I put up with here as well, so I didn’t want to think of myself as contributing to that.
I’m glad to see Ruth is actually trying to make amends. That’s the best she can do given the circumstances.
That face deserves at least an oopsie.
More specific on Mary here. I see a lot of folks having ideal “apologies” that would shut down Mary in an important way. And well, that’s what’s so sick and twisted to how Mary’s approaching this.
Ruth is trying to do “turning over a new leaf and owning up to past mistakes” and for that, is trying not to slip back into old habits or send a message that she’s going to be one nasty episode away from doing all the things she is trying to make a clean break from here. Her stopping herself from making a naivety joke at the expense of Joyce demonstrates it.
And that’s made all the more pressing because of who is here. Joyce is exceedingly impressionable and taking notes, Rachel is already not inclined to trust Ruth’s attempt to grow and improve, and Amber is a painful reminder of who she could scare if she slips back into old ways.
And so Mary demanding an apology puts Ruth in a very specific trap. If she refuses to apologize as she should or if she “apologizes” for something that centers the horrific actions Mary has done in semi-secret, she’ll come off as insincere in her attempt to turn a new leaf and may lose a lot of trust.
As such, the pressure is exceedingly high on her to take the higher ground here and be more willing to concede things to Mary than she should. And that’s what’s so dangerous about this moment happening here and now and in public. And it’s what Mary is intentionally exploiting here to get a humiliated apology from the woman she nearly killed and regain that sense of power in their dynamic.
And it’s all the worse because trapping Ruth into actions she doesn’t want to do and recognizes as harmful to her safety is exactly what “sir” grampus just got done expertly doing to her in brutal fashion and Mary is inserting herself into a similar space for a similar feeling of power over her.
And I think it is that part that’s deeply politically relevant to me. Where one’s good intentions and ideals are used as a cudgel and a trap. Kind of like how liberal ideologies of diversity, free speech, and nonviolence have been used to try and trap liberals in being unable to resist a terrifying rise of neo-nazis in this country.
Because any time we use violence in the minimum by breaking some property or punching a fascist, we feel trapped into tut-tutting it to live up to that ideal of nonviolence. Any time we recognize a fascist intentionally coming on a college campus for the purpose of recruiting to a hate movement and being able to push directed harassment for the purpose of driving specific individuals out of the school, the fascists lean hard on how it is somehow their free speech to be given student money and a platform without pushback or that it is somehow a crime against diversity to not allow folks actively committed to destroying diversity wreak havoc.
And we’ve seen it used to try and push heavily against any rights or means of resisting a campaign to actively target, harass, and kill us. Like, laws against protests are becoming more and more common and nazis are getting more and more brazen about pouring out in force in specific locations for the sole purpose of beating up a lot of people knowing that the cops will do nothing to stop them and the general people are going to feel too trapped by desires to be fair or non-violent to stomp them flat like European anarchists do when the neo-nazis pop up there.
Mary isn’t a neo-nazi. At least I don’t think she is (though give the Republican Party a few more years of normalizing neo-nazi rhetoric and tactics as “conservatism” and who knows, the ever-shifting now might change that). But this same exploiting Ruth’s attempt to apologize and make good to demand a specific apology from the person she nearly killed shows that similar combination of absolutely not giving a fuck about ethics or doing the right thing and seizing on any vulnerable moment as a “weakness” to be exploited.
And that especially hits home on a night where a giant crowd of assholes in Montana out of party loyalty and a genuine belief that acts of violence and cruelty make one “manly” just elected a neo-nazi who body-slammed a reporter simply for asking him an incredibly fair question on policy. Because not committing violence on reporters is a normal and good thing if you’re white and conservative.
Uh, in that last sentence, is that “not” a slip-up? Because, while it turns the sentence into something that SHOULD be true, that seems at odds with both current reality and the rest of the post.
I think the Montana dude has a lot of work ahead of him – how does he expect to have a successful political career? Assaulting a MALE reporter? Pffft, we all know that, in the Republican front, it’s targeting women that gets you the big boy votes. He’s never going to be president like that.
Yup, “not” was a typo, good catch.
GOP PAC spending $6.4m to $700000 in Montana.
The important thing right now is for Ruth to make a fresh start here. And yes, that does mean apologizing for the assualt-ish things she did. It’s about creating a baseline state, a place where she can work from, less her-as-jesus, but more her as the her she wants to be.
But that doesn’t mean groveling. And that sure as hell doesn’t mean ignoring the things that Mary has done. Calling her out on her bigotry towards Carla seems completely acceptable here: Mary’s actions and words back then took place in full public view towards another member of the hall, it’s an action that Mary went unpunished for as a result of leverage that Mary no longer has.
And it also sets up an important part of who Ruth is trying to make herself: Good at her job as an RA. Speaking up for a marginalized person who deserved better and giving Mary notice that her bullshit will not fly here? That’s important too.
I seem to recall you were given a good reason to back the fuck off, Mary. Did you need a reminder?
Not related to any of this specifically, but… am I the only one who thinks comparing Dump to Cave Johnson is a no-brainer (much like Trump himself)? #CitizenCave
Admittedly, I <a href="twitter.com/ScholRLea2/status/867777062203006977 "tweeted this joke on that topic a few days ago, but I don’t think anyone noticed. I doubt anyone here will notice it either, even if it doesn’t get modded down, but hey, whatev.
*sigh* How did I… you know what, never mind.
Mary wins “creepiest use of that Wizard of Oz quote ever” in panel five.
Because there’s nothing less Dorothy (Gale) than a judgmental hypocrit like Mary.
Dorothy’s last name is Gale?
If we’re talking about the Wizard of Oz character, yes. (DoA Dorothy’s last name is Keener)
… Okay I know what you were going for, I’m just snickering because the easiest way for Ruth to shut up Mary now is to point out what “friend of Dorothy” means. XD
I’d like to see that too.
I’m trying to remember who was there when someone asked about Joyce, “friend of Dorothy?” (our Dorothy), and she said, “Oh yes, the biggest!” Ruth, Joyce, and maybe Billie?
Don’t you FUCKING DEAR Ruth!!
And I get THAT Gravitar!?
I feel your pain.
Hidden message could’ve stopped at ‘You never want Mary’ and it would be just as accurate.
oh my god that dialogue in the last panel is GOLD
actual 100% GOOOOOLDDDDD
You know what else is gold?
“Define assault-ish.”
“Well, I slapped her so hard in the face I left a permanent marker stain on it well before she turned into a full fledged irredeemable bongo, and you flat-out decked her.”
“She deserved it, though.”
“Well, yeah…what about that time I chokeslammed YOU, though? Doesn’t that indicate I might resort to violence a little too easily?”
“I got off on it, though.”
“…point taken. Mary, go fuck yourself. We’ll be in our bunk.”
Remember, Ruth, you don’t have to be a good person to be a happy person. Break some arms and take some femurs!
“I shouldn’t have slapped a dick on your face. So, sorry. You’re still fucking garbage, though.”
Exactly.
I had a dream about Mary:
There was an immense pattern of bands and swirls, all in shades of gray. A girl stepped up to the pattern and began touching it. The parts she touched turned blue or pale blue. Another girl came forward. Her touch brought green and pale green to the pattern. A third girl added shades of yellow.
Everyone looked at Mary, expecting her to finish coloring the pattern by adding red and rose-pink. Which Mary desperately did -not want to do. Because she’s -not- like Those Other Girls.
thank goodness