The Book 14 Kickstarter has TWO DAYS LEFT!
Since we hit $55k yesterday, the LIPSYNCING LUCY MAGNET tier was unlocked, also!
oh no!!!! tomorrow’s strip is up early on patreon oh jeez
The Book 14 Kickstarter has TWO DAYS LEFT!
Since we hit $55k yesterday, the LIPSYNCING LUCY MAGNET tier was unlocked, also!
oh no!!!! tomorrow’s strip is up early on patreon oh jeez
Kevin Buist @kevinbuist.com ⋅ 15h
Ferric Fang @fangferric.bsky.social ⋅ 2d
Paul Lê @paulle.bsky.social ⋅ 1d
Rolling Stone @rollingstone.com ⋅ 2d
Blue sky nice guy @rajandelman.bsky.social ⋅ 11d
Maggie Westrum @maggiewestrum.bsky.social ⋅ 2d
David M Willis! @damnyouwillis.bsky.social ⋅ 3d
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Oh hi Joe. it’s ok, everything is perfectly ok. Don’t think about it.
DAMN YOU WILLIS!!!
Okay, now I feel better.
Also, the alt-text isn’t wrong.
DAAAAAAMN YOOOOOOU WILLIIIIIIIIIIIS!
…nope, not helping as much as I’d hoped. xD
Because you’re doing it wrong.
DAMN YOU WILLIS.
No repeats, no exclamation marks, just pure, calm, seething damnation for the grandmaster of Evil Cartoonists.
Nope. I gotta go with THANK YOU WILLIS!
This is better than nearly any other alternative.
I do however, reserve the right to later condemnations, should everything gang aft agley.
Yeah, I’m really glad Joe showed up when he did. Not because I don’t want Dorothy and Joyce to get together I think it would be awesome. But I don’t want them to get together like that. Cheating on their partners. And you know Joyce would have been all kinds of unhappy with herself and probably ultimately Dotty too.
I’m also glad Joe didn’t show up until after Dorothy said they had to stop, though I’d love to know how Joyce was going to respond.
drama aside, joe having a matching sweatervest is cute lol
Everything is fine! Nothing is the matter!
(knock from Joe at the door)
Joyce (aloud): COMING!
Dotty (whispering to self): No, but I was sooooo close… ^///^
Not like they could have done very much in the 5 seconds before Joe arrived anyway.
Not even Dorothy is THAT efficient.
That sounds like quitter talk.
Definitely quitter talk.
You’d think someone with a sonic screwdriver would know better about how much you can do in 5 seconds.
Perhaps, but guilt persists long after.
To be fair, Joe was likely several miles away before his Joe senses told him something wonderful was happening and made him sprint there.
Yes, not much….
…Including putting on underwear!!
Joyce got dressed THEN asked what underwear she should wear. Meaning she’s not wearing any at the moment. She’s going commando. She’s going to have unfamiliar contact with several body parts. The big question I’m seeing is how will that fact influence events?! Embarrassment? Stimulation? Shame? Panic? Speed up events or completely derail them…?
To be honest, I’m kinda surprised nobody has posted a “OMG SHE’S NOT WEARING UNDERWEAR!! SO HAWT” type comment yet as far as I can tell. Unless it’s been deleted, I can understand that….
We see her pulling on her pants on the bed after asking about the underwear. I assume she put on the undies in between.
Yeah, she’s definitely wearing underwear. I cannot imagine her asking about what she should wear with that much anxiety and then deciding “fuck it, we go without”
Which tragically means we will never know whether Dorothy advised orange or pink stripes.
(I mean, depending, we might know which one Joyce WENT with, but who knows what Dorothy said in those lost moments between strips…! Tragedy. Etc.)
Did she?
*Goes back a few pages on PC*
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2025/comic/book-15/03-me-and-who-you-say-i-was-yesterday/banana/
AH, there we go. A hard to see detail on a mobile phone screen on a moving & shaking bus…
ahhhh im disappointed!!(im just guessing with my copy paste)
Ahhhh I’m disappointed!!
genuinely the best outcome if you’re rooting for Joyce/Dorothy as a viable romantic relationship
this would not have been a good way to start
I believe this was indeed the best outcome, it can still happen, but maybe after a bit more communication ~<3
That makes sense. You’re talking about what NOT to do when she had Jacob briefly, right? Yeah, all boundaries were still intact
I am also disappoint, not just because I like yuri.
DAMN YOU WILLIS!!! XD
for reals this is a fuckin god level troll LMFAO well played!!!
lol i was wondering how he was gonna pull out the rug
lol well, not as much of a troll it’d be to cut to some unrelated group for another week but joe showing up def would’ve happened at some point but i hope dorothy doesn’t avoid joyce too much after this
Okay what the heck Joyce
I… Honestly don’t know how to interpret this outcome. I would genuinely love to know what Joyce is working with here.
To be fair, I have never for a second doubted that Joyce was super into Joe regardless of whatever else. I… Know what I would be thinking if I was Joyce, but. Idk I’ve assumed the Dorothy bisexuality situation was pushing that romantic, but I guess I don’t KNOW that’s how Joyce is thinking of it. And polyamory is real but needs negotiation.
Idk this strip Joyce is highly relatable except I honestly have no fucking idea what she’s thinking and the relatable interpretation is probably not the textual one? I’m trepidatiously curious about what’s going on here.
Probably a reason Jennifer telling Joyce it’s okay and platonic to boink your BFF happened again earlier this arc
anybody have a link to that strip? i want to reread
Jennifer has the best advice.
She could not have detected any romance whatsoever. Remember Joyce is autistic and grew up with Becky her idea of platonic female friendship is a bit odd.
Andy brings up a good point. Joyce’s calibration of ”gal-pal besties” may be a little oddly calibrated.
oddly calibrated but shes also blushing, at some poitn she started notcing what shes doing for sure here. I’d be tehre, do that, regret it in a minute. probably reflects college me brain level quality
There’s still a chance that snuggling with good friends that she’s neither romantically nor sexually attracted to just comes naturally to her. It’s just not imaginable in the parts of Western culture that she was sheltered from when she grew up.
…so poor Dorothy is having a culture shock now.
Maybe Dorothy and Becky will have something to bond over.
Becky: “Welcome to my teenage years”
oh GOD if Becky finds out about this
i never once considered the possibility that, instead of being immediately traumatized, Becky could just be satisfied with catapulting Dorothy at Joyce’s loins with neo-religious fervor
because everybody should be lesbians!
I’m picturing more her doing her personal equivalent of taking Dorothy out for a drink and mope. “Yep Joyce is sure adorable AND charming AND funny. Sucks, don’t it? Just be glad you’re not also 13 when going through this. I recommend lots of exercise and cold showers.”
I mean. Relatable. I’m also remembering a thing someone said about how we’ve been very intentionally shown this entire sequence from Dorothy’s point of view with attention to Dorothy’s newfound awareness of her sexuality very much expressed through the pacing. And I feel that especially in this moment.
But also the blushing situation man.
If this ends up going a queerplatonic direction this kind of weird terrible ambiguity situation is going to end up being the single most relatable part of the whole damn thing.
I’m sure for many lesbians this terrible ambiguity situation is already the single most relatable part of the whole thing.
Can confirm.
Yyyyyup!
this is all i was thinking as i read this. like oh joyce, this is how becky felt this entire time watching this. snuggling and not knowing. and then i noticed the blush and its like, is this how she always acted and is only JUST now noticing the intimate and sexual undertones? was she considering going gay chicken on this? upsettlingly relateable. never have hot friends you love very much kids, it leads to complexity!
I dont think shes thinking about it all.
Which is both par for the course for joyce, and a bit of an unusual change.
ie its unconscious, non self-conscious doing what feels natural, leading into love. She always been blind to her extreme homo social tendencies
She appears very oddly ( much like dina ) have no innate feelings about about homosexuality to unlearn. and what she was taught she shrugged on in an instant when she learned.
When Becky kissed her, she felt nothing, ( which hurt Becky) and she took to mean she was straight.
But that actually means nothing. But we learned she had no negative feelings either.
I do wonder how far Joyce would have gone with before she realized the implications or her self editing feature turned in.
But maybe it means nothing. There is a lot of cross sexuality play in teenagers that isnt indicative of anything but experimentation.
“She appears very oddly ( much like dina ) have no innate feelings about about homosexuality to unlearn.”
I strongly disagree with this. She grew up in a religious cult and was deeply uncomfy with Becky’s lesbian coming out (to the point of implying Becky shouldn’t be telling people) and it took her a little while to get over the idea of Becky being gay. Even now, being okay with it for other people, doesn’t mean being okay with it or having no hang-ups about it when it’s YOU instead of someone else.
Also she willingly tried to help ‘straighten’ Ethan out, which isn’t a thing you do if you don’t think it’s wrong to be gay at least a bit.
Something something “no worse than lying” “and how do you feel about lying?” “I HATE IT” something
you could be right, but also i think the key thing here is the difference between her “knowing its wrong” becasue of what she grew up in, yet not “feeling it is wrong” as she hasn’t attached her own negative interpertaion/reaction to homosexuality outside of “its the opinion your supposed to ahve” which is much easier to unlearn imho.
La la la, me being frustratingly oblivious to both boy and girl flirting & come-ons for the first half of my life.
The most complicated and bizarre way this could go is if they go through with it and they have both Joe and Walky watch.
Based on this strip I think Dorothy is in fact the cuck in this situationship.
Dotty up on the bed still, Joyce and Joe gettin’ very passionate very fast, goin’ at it on the floor. Dotty doesn’t want to interrupt Joyce’s first time….so yeah. Semi-involuntary witness to the deed.
Walky: *Mouth full of popcorn* Soooo… You maybe thinking…?
Joe: *Drinking a non-tradmarked frozen slushy* No. *thinks* Well… Hmm.
Walky: Is.. Is it the pajama jeans?
Joe: Oddly… No? I think moreso because you banged my new sister.
Walky: True. Popcorn?
I thought that v explicitly they didn’t bang?
Quickly, to the washing machine
Joe in a Maytag uniform, Walky wearing a box made to look like a washing machine…
….Damn you, Willis. *sniffle*
there’s always Daisy
honestly Daisy and Dorothy would be perfect for each other
I’d be on board S.S. Dairthy, anyone else?
I mean. Why?
More accuratedly, why not? (Daisy needs one actual kiss imo)
Oh, I’m not against Daisy getting laid, I just……..
Well, first of all, I strongly dislike the idea that Dorothy’s long-term bi-awakening crush on Joyce could just be easily transferred to another adjacent blonde.
Second, boy do I genuinely think Dorothy would be a terrible choice for getting Daisy laid. Surely it should be a young woman who, first of all, knows what she’s doing? Isn’t currently heartbroken? Didn’t just reflexively try to tell Joyce that the two of them almost kissing was just confusion?
Like. Woof. I wouldn’t wish either of them on each other right now. Daisy is too horny to be a good listener for a barely-self-admitted young bi girl, and there’s almost no way Dorothy wouldn’t wind up feeling worse about herself.
Daisy needs someone who meets her horniness and desperation head-on.
TBH, of all the wlw we know, Ruth wasn’t a bad choice, but maybe someone should introduce her to Mindy. She might still be carrying a torch for Anna, but at least she’s been out for more than like negative two minutes.
(If the only people who know you’re bi are a romantic rival and an ex you never spend time with, you’re not really “out”.)
I don’t remember Anna. Who is?
Wait, I was thinking of Mandy. Who Mindy?
Is Anna that asshole Leslie hooked up with? Has L. dumped her yet?
I linked a relevant strip featuring Mindy! It will answer most of your questions.
She’s been out to herself for like 5 minutes. Not surprising she’s not really out publicly yet.
That was so very not my point!
I had a long weird argument with someone like a week ago who tried to insist that, having two whole people she barely interacts with plausibly aware that she’s bi, Dorothy doesn’t really need to tell anyone else, ever, to not be closeted.
You know, I came across that thread when looking back for something else, and I’m not sure that’s what was being said– it didn’t seem like there was real disagreement about Dorothy being closeted in that scenario, but maybe missing context of how many people find being in the closet to be painful.
Oh I’m sure we were miscommunicating. But after I tried to point out that Dorothy having told Joyce and Walky both about both Yale and not wanting to be president anymore didn’t seem to have lightened her mental load, the response I got back was definitely that she’d told “2.5 people” she was bi, so obviously that couldn’t be the source of her angst either heh.
And the fact that she is not out to her actual friends or family, that she has barely if even accepted her sexuality herself, just seemed very relevant to this idea that she should hook up with Daisy, who might or might not even be as interested in a relationship as she is in getting laid (not that there’s anything wrong with that), and who I cannot imagine is in the right headspace to help a young wlw navigate her identity right now.
I can see her forcibly shoving her own loneliness and horniness aside to make herself be there for Dorothy the way Dorothy needs? But it isn’t really a satisfying or happy evening for either of them.
Also I regret my subtweet, tbqh, I don’t actually wanna talk about that frustrating conversation, I just wanna talk about how I just don’t think Daisy’s headspace is super compatible with helping a nervous new bi navigate their attraction to women. Dorothy’s first time with a girl is probably going to involve a lot more stop and go than Daisy wants from her next partner.
That’s fair, it seemed like there was a lot of frustration when I read through it! I was frustrated, too, and largely in agreement with you.
Anyway, yeah, I don’t think Daisy and Dorothy would work. Daisy’s super horny and also seems like she wants someone who could take charge of getting them to a sexual scenario, and that’s not Dorothy at this stage in her queerness. (Mindy doesn’t exactly strike me as “take charge,” but would be more open about her attraction to women and wanting to have sex with one, which I think would work.)
Yeahhhh, that is one problem with Mindy and Daisy. And They Were Both Bottoms, as the meme goes. But otherwise a better match.
Every time I try to imagine Dorothy and Daisy in a room together I think about how many older and slightly older queer people consider “being in the closet” a pretty big dealbreaker. Not from a lack of compassion, but because dating someone who’s still in the closet means having to reenter it yourself at least a little.
Dorothy’s stage of wlw is “still only like 95% sure I’m attracted to women generally instead of just Joyce, absolutely no experience with another woman in the bedroom”.
Daisy’s stage is “don’t care, pants off now”.
It’s a mite incompatible!
Hear me out. Mindy. She’s probably late 20s to early 30s. So it should give off weird vibes to a lot of Dorothy’s friends. But Mindy wouldn’t be taking advantage of her. Mindy’s a little bit of a mess, and Dorothy has a take charge personality. That’s what they’d see in each other. Not sure how to get them together though. Obviously Mindy would have to express how impressed she was with Dorothy over something. Both Walky and Joyce affirmed Dorothy’s presidential plan, and it wouldn’t be that anymore.
Something like that happened on my freshman floor, and it was pretty weird, but as far as we could tell it ended up fine. And Dorothy+Mindy, with Dorothy fixing up Mindy’s life would be less weird. Except for Leslie probably. About time for some Leslie drama.
I just pitched Daisy/Mindy, and I’m standing by that. Pretty sure Daisy straddles the line between our freshman and our young teachers in terms of age, so she’s less age-gappy with Mindy than Dorothy would be, and they share a certain desperation that could make for good times in the sack.
I think Daisy’s a student too, though I’m not sure it’s been made explicit.
Yeah, I think we’re all working with the idea that she’s a student. She’s likely a senior, though, so she’s maybe 22… seems like she could be fairly close in age to Mindy.
What Yumi said. There’s a reason why I said Daisy straddles the age line between our freshman and our young teachers, instead of like, “students and young teachers”.
Also what I meant by it is basically: I think Daisy is meant to have a small enough age gap with Dorothy that it wouldn’t be super weird, while also being old enough that even a bigger age gap like what probably exists with Leslie wouldn’t be terribly inappropriate.
Like Yumi said, about 22, while I imagine Leslie and Mindy as more late 20s…? Robin has to be about 25 (the age requirement goes up as you move from House to Senate (30) to president (35)).
*has to be at least 25, orz
Leslie said she was 26/might be 27 now. Based on this strip, I’d say Mindy is 28 or so: https://www.dumbingofage.com/2017/comic/book-7/04-the-do-list/single/
I’m rooting for Daisy to eventually eke out a win, but I don’t think her and Dorothy has legs.
I … don’t think Dorothy/Daisy make a good pairing. Like, they’d be … fine? But as far as I can tell, they don’t actually share anything besides a boss/worker relationship.
Like, if this is about getting one or both laid, then sure, but that’s like … all they’ve got going as far as I can tell.
idk how much older she is compared to the other studdents but other than power dynamics of her also being like the newspaper chief(?) at this point i’d expect her to just go on tinder or so if not openly seek out some interested ppl by posting an article about herself tho i imagine that wouldn’t go over well with the staff
“Dor– Dorothy, I– I was told it’s okay we’re allowed to do this”
*finger guns*
Yeahhhhh prolly.
“By WHOM?”
“Jennifer…”
“…”
“OK I see your point.”
Joyce: “Let’s ask Joe if it’s okay.”
Dotty (*even louder): “…”
It’s true, your Honor. It says so in the strip: https://www.dumbingofage.com/2025/comic/book-15/03-me-and-who-you-say-i-was-yesterday/skills/
This is incredibly on point, and I think directly related to Joyce almost making out with Dorothy. She found out it’s normal and allowed.
I’m going back to homestuck
As someone who for some godforsaken reason never left homestuck… there are… worse times to get back into it?
Oh wow you got really stuck
Some of us think we’ve left and then something strikes JUUUUST RIGHT and naw.
Don’t Forget: You’re Here Forever.
NO. I WILL NEVER GET BACK IN!!!
*hides the bookmark in my browser incase the urge ever hits*
I quite like where we are actually!
the shipping charts are a lot more fun!
in troll!DoA, i think thered be a lot more Dorothy <3< Joe shipteasing. Just a thought.
GOD DAMMIT WILLIS
Warmed her up for ya, Joe!
Possibly, or gave her enough inner conflict that it ain’t happening soon…
Shit, not like this
Your comment is so diabolical in context to panel 5. Like, actually
*plays “A Magical Dream” from Mysterious Girlfriend X Sound CD on bed laptop*
AH, there’s the cut-off.
Man, this is gonna be some lesbian tension to sift through later, but for now: Sweatervests!
Not just sweatervests, MATCHING sweatervests!
how long will it take becky to notice the tension tho and will she be chill about it versus freaking out
“You’d do it for her but not for me?! D’: ”
– Becky, probably
Yeah, probably. It’s a worry.
But a lot depends on how Becky finds out. Like, if Becky finds out because Dorothy lets it slip without having told Joyce yet, there probably won’t be any feelings of betrayal. Maybe. Possibly.
At first I thought maybe Becky would have gotten over her Joyce drama a little, but after a brief re-read of recent events, she’s as immature as ever, maybe even worse! She would be furious with Dorothy. For no good reason of course, but she’d still be furious.
I mean, heartbreak is a good reason to have feelings about something, and feelings aren’t always fair. Nothing wrong with having them. She’ll probably take it out on Dorothy, though, which is the shitty part. I agree there.
she might be more ‘accepting’ if it was like, with sal/literally anyone else but dorothy since she did have a line like “it’s a good thing you’re not gay/into girls b/c otherwise we’d need to have a talk about your taste in bony poindexters”
Tentatively agree that Sal is as close as DoA characters get to a Celebrity Hall Pass level of hotness.
By which I mean I think a lot of characters would have a kind of grudging “well I can’t say I don’t see why” about it if their monogamous partner mentioned also being attracted to Sal, heh.
Probably the best possible way to resolve this tbh.
And this is definitely totally resolved and will cause no problems ever.
I like that. You’re silly!
That’s what I say every time I do a got commit
git merge origin/main ; git reset --hard, how bad could it be.Completely resolved.
A problem no more.
End of any internal issues.
oh thank god. Hopefully the throuple can become real, but not like that.
glad im not alone in throuple desire
Judging from comments of various hundreds over the last several days, no, you are not alone in that desire. Not by a magnitude order or two.
Boooo reason won over impulse.
More like reason gave impulse a temporary injunction.
Yeah, I can no longer relate to this. Thinking and acting all responsible-like, what’s this.
(Seriously, even though I wanted them to dooooo iiiiiittt, I’m ok with this. It’s better if everyone involved talks to their current partners first.)
Still, poor Dorothy and her sad face in the final panel.
The only panel with lyrics, too. :O
Boo indeed.
Glad I chose sleep last night. Staying up only to encounter disappointment would have been… disappointing.
All’s well that ends well!
You have a strange definition of well.
But consistent.
More like a strange definition of “ends”.
I’m definitely in Camp Not Like That, as far as what I want for long term developments rather than immediate goblin-mess-satisfaction, but yeah. The cheating has been avoided! The feelings that almost took them there remain, though, and a lot more needs resolving here.
Plenty of time for something ELSE messy to happen, is what I mean.
(Though again, for the characters’ sakes, I definitely hope honest and open communication is in everyone’s not terribly distant futures.)
Honest and open communication, in this strip, is something earned through blood, sweat, tears, and a trail of bad decisions.
It’s true…
I’m pro-chaos, but I’ve been saying that I think there can be a greater level of chaos than would come from just them kissing here. So I wasn’t rooting for them to cheat, but I’m not so much relieved by the lack of cheating as I am delighted in the ways this could continue to come up.
Uh oh! Joyce accidentally told Dorothy AND Joe that she would go to prom with both of them! Wacky hijinks ensue! (Dorothy throws a punch bowl at Joe.)
Aight I was wrong.
Well, ok, I’ll tentatively hold onto the I was wrong card, but I’m going to say there is a plausible deniability that Joyce didn’t know how to gently say she doesn’t have those feelings. That COULD have been what she was stumbling towards.
But until I get firmer evidence of that I’ll hold this L.
We appreciate your sacrifice. I will ignite the loser pire.
The girl who heard “know what you want” and immediately caressed her bestie’s face with a longing gaze? That’s a tough sell on the “doesn’t have those feelings” market.
Agreed. She had a weird childhood, but the looks she’s been giving Dorothy and some of the things she’s been saying make me sure that she’s at least suspected Dorothy’s feelings (and has maybe been working through her own thoughts on the matter). And her experience with Becky has certainly taught her to… *not* bait girls that have crushes om her with physical intimacy. I have faith that Joyce’s emotional intelligence is high enough to not do that to the girl that she loves.
I agree that its still a possibility that Joyce is straight.
We have seen Becky complain before about how Joyce throws off her “gaydar”, and she was raised in an environment that was both 1) very sheltered, and 2) very friendly (at least to non-homosexuals). Its still possible that Joyce simply sees Dorothy as a very close (platonic) friend, and is just showing the same non-sexual intimacy that she might show to Becky.
Do u honestly believe that?
by the powers from one to the other!
One thing I really appreciate about Willis’ writing is the way gratifies my polyamorous thought process of rom-com dramas. Namely “Everything would be easier if everyone just fucked each other.”
To quote Walky’s dad, “Everyone should get in a fuck pile and get it over with.”
Agh! Linked the wrong damn strip!
I just need to give trying to use HTML on my phone I swear!
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2023/comic/book-13/04-but-dont-give-yourself-away/mysake/
Charles gave us two bangers on that visit: This, and “go for the girl who commited a crime for you.”
Was it to make up for his weak dogshit parenting? Yes. But I’m hella taking those two lines :’33
The universal
New YorkerDumbing of Age caption, “it’ll be fine probably”.Walky is about to get the fuck of his life from a sexally frustrated girlfriend who needs to overcompensate.
Or perhaps she’s decided to never do that again.
“Let’s all agree to never be
creativehopeful again~”I’m pretty sure Dotty’s immediate future is directed less at horny pursuits and more at ice cream and sobbing.
*Starts chanting “Walky in a Wig” like someone farrrr to much into college football doing a chant*
That would be a very funny way for things to shake out
And there we go. For the commenters who immediately jumped to “they’re cheating”, all they had was intimate eye contact and one cheek touch. Obviously if this turns into a pattern it’d be pretty cheatsy but for what it is? Literally the two of them realizing they’re attracted to each other? I think this is fine.
Let’s not talk like this wasn’t the sharpest turn away from the edge of that cliff it could have been.
Perhaps, but I’m not gonna demonize them for something they didn’t do.
Never a good call, agreed. Just saying this was pretty close to getting dangerous and I don’t think it’s wrong for anyone to have been worried.
Though I was one of the ones who was worried, so maybe I’m just feeling defensive, lol.
That’s understandable.
Oh for sure it wasn’t wrong to be worried. We were supposed to be worried!
I think the only folks who have any egg on their faces rn are the people who were sure Dorothy was going to go through with this because she is become darkness, Destroyer of Relationships, or that neither of them cared about their partners’ feelings, or maybe “Dorothy is gonna kiss Joyce and Joyce is gonna freak out,” though that prediction for different reasons.
Being worried was reading the tension completely right.
I’m still rather cross with Joyce for planning a date and having her boyfriend prepare that date while going at a gentle jog toward that metaphorical cliff’s edge.
But I’m ready to wear my share of the egg on face for overreacting in the comments yesterday for sure. No sense denying it.
I am super curious about all of Joyce’s thought processes here!
And here, have a metaphorical wash cloth for the metaphorical egg.
It’ll be my turn again soon enough I’m sure.
I for one am waiting with RAPT attention for the conversation where Joe is forced to spell out for Joyce just how insanely over-the-top in love Dorothy is, and why that could be problematic, actually.
Like, I actually think Joyce “gets it,” kind of! She’s literally been through this exact situation once before! But it will take Joe to reveal to her “hey, this doesn’t actually happen a lot, and it’s probably very hard on Dorothy, and it probably was way harder on Becky than you initially bench-marked. This is something you actually should address directly, because Dorothy is your friend, and you love and care about her so much, and she’s probably in pain.”
This comments section seriously needs an upvote system instead of the “Report comment” button. Take my imaginary upvote!
On the one hand up votes would be nice.
On the other hand I remember Willis once turned the upvote plugin on years ago, for a few minutes, to prove a point. The comments were so chopped up and spread out that they were unreadable.
Though that was years ago. Maybe the plugin is better now?…. probablynot
Ah, yeah, a lot of them do use the vote counts to move comments up and down the page… maybe a like button?
The lurker in me who just wants to upvote the person who already made my comment agrees and approves of your idea, and gives you an imaginary upvote.
I don’t think anyone was arguing that they were cheating, just that it seemed like they were about to
Oh trust me at least one person was
Ohhh, a few people were definitely talking about it in terms of “this is already over the line and I’d be upset if I were Joe”.
(That’s fair, tho! People are allowed to have different boundaries in their relationships.)
No, there were definitely some people who were immediately screaming about Dorothy and Joyce cheating as if the two had immediately jumped to tongue hockey or the mattress mambo. One commenter directly related it to his own experience of being cheated on. I feel for that commenter but the immediate jump to “they’re cheating they’re cheating they are awful cheaters” without even waiting for the moment to play out is odd for me.
Stop remembering that, we’re supposed to pretend it wasn’t 9/11 in the comments yesterday.
Wat? But it wasn’t Mandatory Patriotism Day yesterday. It was Pseudo-Mandatory Star Wars Recognition Day. (and tomorrow’s its related darker holiday)
Christmas Special.
(*whispering, looking around furtively) You mean the “Star Wars Holiday Special,” about Life Day, as it aired for the first – and last – time on CBS on November 17, 1978?
Eh, different people have different boundaries, too — we’ve all seen stories of people who think “talking to someone of the opposite sex” is forbidden, for example.
Hell, my best friend’s (now-ex) wife wouldn’t let him talk to me for nearly a decade, because in her opinion the fact we talked about feelings and supported each other in that way was “emotional infidelity”.
See with that ex wife example, I feel like there’s a difference between having different boundaries and having control issues or jealousy issues. There’s ‘hey babe your friend seems like he’s into you and that makes me uncomfortable’ and then there’s ‘your coworker is a woman therefore you are cheating on me with her when you’re working’.
I would certainly agree with you on that — I was picking the most extreme example I had, but I can also understand both the viewpoint of “being emotionally intimate with someone can be considered cheating (esp. if it impairs the romantic relationship)” and “engaging in borderline-romantic non-sexual physical intimacy can be considered cheating” — I’d consider “touching someone’s face while laying in bed together” to be pushing the bounds of “cheating” if it wasn’t discussed in advance, myself — if I were Joe and found out about it, it’d at least merit a discussion about how exclusive we actually were here given the early days of the relationship.
Now THAT is toxic monogamy, heh.
She also completed the “stereotypical toxic monogamy” bingo card by cheating on him more than once WHILE doing things like the aforementioned and “making him delete his twitter account because women occasionally replied to him” (he posted exclusively and only about our city’s pro sports teams).
Eugh my skin is crawling. Glad they aren’t still together.
Me too, honestly, it’s been nice having him and the kids show up at my backyard grilling fests again.
Do I curse thee with damnations, or do I praise thee for letting Dorothy regain her sense?
Truly, I do not know, but I shall damn thee regardless for thou art Willis
And I’ll balance that out with a “praise you, Willis!” for the beautifully-averted catastrophe… in a way that so perfectly retains the potential for many more damns in the future.
If it’s any consolation, it ain’t over just yet. Dorothy up on top bunk; Joe doesn’t yet know she’s there. Joe and Joyce kissing all valentines and hearts. How hot and heavy do they get before either self-breaking-off or Dorothy has to interrupt?
There’s supposed to be a proper date first. A restaurant, a romantic walk…
That sounds like first-stage Lucy talk. We saw how much effort went into getting around that.
And we saw how far that got Lucy.
Joe wanted the date and he seemed a bit hesitant about the sex. I don’t think they’re going to do it here and now.
I am so relieved. I really didn’t want all the hurt that we’d have to sift through for a year or two over this.
Could you IMAGINE Sad Joe in a sweater vest?
It would make a great magnet for the next book though.
This daily strip has SO MUCH HEART and a lot of it is on the pacing. The drama lives in a balance with humor and it’s precisely this balance, this slackening of the tension providing a breather, what REEAAAAALLY lets drama shine when it’s its time.
This in turn allows Willis to play us like a damn fiddle. I see no drawbacks, ahahah 1DDD
Willis, yeah, Willis is the Itzhak Perlman. We…we are the Stradivarius violin.
This is- but- this isn’t okay either, damnit! AUGH! WILLIS! YOU MAGNIFICENT BASTARD, STOP PLAYING WITH MY EMOTIONS!
It is possible that “AUGH! WILLIS! YOU MAGNIFICENT BASTARD…” May become the new Damn you, Willis…
gotta say it’s adorable that Joe turned up in a sweater vest.
Aw beans.
really obsessed with the bisexual-branded book 14 ad for this page. super well done, gave me a chuckle
Aw geez, Dotty
I do appreciate that Dorothy maintained her integrity.
I mean, I’d love if the two can explore things with the *knowledge* and approval of their partners, but this is absolutely not a “better to ask forgiveness than permission” situation.
Yeah, I’ll absolutely second that. I would’ve liked to hear what Joyce was about to say, but I have a feeling will get back to that down the line.
yeah i agree— dot’s all about her integrity. and i do think its important to her character that she risked what she did with walky when he was with lucy, but drew that line with joyce.
People were really quick to forget that Dorothy, like Joyce, is actually extremely sheltered and is susceptible to messaging from peers she sees as socially competent. Jennifer really had at least some part of Dorothy convinced, much like Joyce, that “yeah, it’s totally platonic to send your girlfriends thirst traps. It’s a very straight thing to do.”
Dorothy also got on a different level, that it was, if not wrong, likely not within the boundaries Dorothy intended to have within their platonic friendship. But she freaked out as soon as somebody flatly brought her to her senses that “yeah, Dotty, that’s pretty overtly horny and weird, especially since you’re in a relationship.”
It’s almost like she’s a sheltered child, who has spent her whole life lying to herself about how she absolutely has everything together, when in fact she’s not even really in tune with her self or what she actually wants out of life, and how her own feelings and needs work…
…I think the biggest thing with Dorothy that I see the majority of readers, IMO, get wrong, is they believe her prior perceptions about how much she has her shit together. People buy into Dorothy’s own false self-image as a hyper-competent perfect smart girl, and so she ends up getting judged really harshly as soon as her character arc started to actually deal with her latent problems; so, she ends up getting “tried as an adult” when she messes up, so to speak, whereas other characters absolutely have been handled with kids’ gloves.
I think you mean Amber had Dorothy convinced for your first paragraph. It’s not exaaaactly what she said, but she did make a brief case for “it’s weirder of you to want me to delete this, you should send a pic back… as a JOKE.”
Jennifer thought the cleavage pic was for a love interest. It’s only JOYCE she has told this sorta thing can be platonic.
Also, for the record, Dorothy has actually never claimed to have social things figured out, except for desperately trying to say she isn’t terrible with people (generally) in the who’ll-be-RA storyline and more recently whenever another character asks if she’s autistic.
So it’s less readers buying into Dorothy’s own prior self-perceptions than it is people seeing a quiet, polite, organized young woman who excels academically and is sexually experienced… and just kinda deciding, entirely on their own, that she must be a lot more mature than she’s ever claimed to be. Due to societal hang ups!
Like, every single time Dorothy has run into any kind of Typical Young Adult Experience, she’s said out loud with her mouth that she’s never done this before, but the folks who wanna “try her as an adult”, as you put it, just ignore her.
She’d never had alcohol, she’d never been to a real party, she had to google how schools handle situations like Joyce’s (her default assumption prior to looking it up had been to assume that police and the college administration would handle Ryan well, instead of terribly)… the list goes on and on.
I really appreciate this reminder about Dorothy. That said, the thirst trapping was pushed by Amber, who was goading Dorothy into proving her relationship with Joyce was platonic.
Huh, today’s page is significantly less awkward than I’d anticipated.
Also I love Joe showing up with the sweatervest.
Said it before, I’ll say it again. It’s not called “Smarting of Age”. Messy college relationships are realistic! People accidentally hurting each other’s feelings, weird close bff situationships, people switching partners etc. I’m glad Dorothy had some sense to do the right thing though it did ring with a little internalized homophobia…
She was pulling “Billie in a spiral” lines at the beginning there. Giving her the benefit of the doubt so far because she’s been conditioned to deny her same sex attraction probably since she started dating Danny.
Why only since she started dating Danny? Heh, for most of us it starts before we’re even born, when our parents are buying little onesies for baby boys that say “Lady Killer” on them.
Because Joe was a dudebro teenager and he probably joked that Danny was her Beard because Danny couldn’t actually ever land a girl in any other way.
Because the Banter demanded it, and she’s brought up that he used to call her a lesbian and she hated it.
I DO think Joe just thought of it as Friendly Banter, because she was probably their friend pre-puberty, which could make her a nonsexual entity to him.
Like how Joyce Sees Becky.
*Then* Dorothy was dating Danny, which would make her even LESS of a sexual being to Joe, because Cheating is anathema to him.
And if I’m honest, I think that gives the polycue a tiny sliver of a chance to work. Because he’s already shared Danny (His best friend and heterosexual life partner) with her, so the idea of sharing someone else he loves with Dorothy already has an in-road.
I mean all we know about that time is that Dorothy says Joe started calling her a lesbian after she wasn’t interested in him, and that Dorothy doesn’t seem to have appreciated it.
Could totally be a thing where Joe thought it was friendly banter, but I think it’s kinda predicated on him as having seen her as a potential sexual entity, since it was her rejection that started the name-calling.
Where do we see that it was her rejection? Legit asking because I might very well have missed it.
The way he talks during her meltdown it felt more “Yeah, I made fun of you because we were friends and that’s what I thought friends did”
I am extrapolating very slightly from “since the first day I never showed interest in you”. Calling it a rejection is possibly an exaggeration, but I stand by the rest of my comment where I phrased it correctly.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/habitually/
So noted! I stand by the rest of my head canon though!
‘Tis a fine head canon! I wish you luck on seeing it fulfilled and/or at least never contradicted, whichever would be more to your preference.
I don’t think there’s any evidence they were friends before she was dating Danny (Or really friends then, but they spent time together because of Danny).
I don’t think Dorothy was a nonsexual being to Joe, considering he was talking about putting her on his list before she and Danny even broke up.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2010/comic/book-1/01-move-in-day/available/
Good on Dorothy. Sometimes the right choice is the boring choice, and sometimes the boring choice is also the hard choice.
Joe and Walky are definitely gonna be the “hard choices” this evening…
OH THANK GOD!! This is perfect. This is actually perfect. It’s all out in the open, Joyce knows what Dorothy is feeling, Joyce seems to genuinely feel excited to see Joe, which means that Joyce can both enjoy her date and process the possibility of Dorothy. If she enjoys the date with Joe, great! If she decides she’d rather Dorothy, great! If she decides she wants both, then she can ask Joe if he’d be okay if she dates him non-exclusively, great! Thank you Dorothy, you did the right thing.
Planting the flag of her moaning Dorothy after climbing to the peak of Mount Joe, so that all of us scream “NO!” at once.
I would love/hate that development. That is peak “character volunteering to go check out the spooky shed outside alone at night in a horror movie” bad choices, hitting the perfect sweet spot of “noooooo” and “oooooo”.
OH HELLS YEAH
I’m in for it. I will help you hold this flag.
Also, in case anyone decides to argue “well Joyce didn’t love Becky so she has to be straight”, I again wanna say, for the 50th time, that Becky is not every single woman in the world. Clearly. Just because Joyce had no feelings for her doesn’t mean Joyce can never feel anything for other women. And again, Joyce had very NOT STRAIGHT thought about Jennifer’s boobs, about Sal and her hair, and about Dorothy complete with having her own jealous feelings about Dorothy and Walky. This isn’t a surprise.
Also the whole arc with Becky about Becky being scared about people, sexuality, and gender changing is also a lead up to this.
The whole thing with Joyce and Becky was always way more about the fact that Joyce saw Becky as family than the fact that Joyce was straight.
Yes!
Co-signing with all my heart, heh.
I love Becky, but honestly she absolutely needs to get over her anxiety wrt Joyce/Dorothy, and… yeah, this is dovetailing very nicely with her new anxiety around change.
Also, someone linked the very first appearance of Dorothy and Joyce yesterday, with Becky telling Joyce not to let anyone change her and Dorothy being in frame, between them.
I am reminded of this and the strip immediately following it — Jocelyne assuming Joyce had become an atheist “for” Dorothy, Joyce correcting her and then apologizing to Dorothy for saying it (adorable)
https://www.dumbingofage.com/blast/
https://www.dumbingofage.com/thebubble/
(Oh yeah and then saying “the queerness was inside all along”.) (But I’m sure that’s nothing we were meant to look back on differently while re-reading or anything.)
And I am thinking, well,,, she can make up for “not changing by becoming an atheist” for Dorothy by realizing she’s bi for Dorothy! It all comes full circle— /dragged off stage by a hook for being cheesy
Scholars of the Jury, I’d like to submit as foreshadowing evidence:
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2024/comic/book-14/04-for-me-it-was-tuesday/rebounding/
Walky, watching Lucy who’s reportedly said “a bisexual version of me” of Joyce, kissing Jacob who’s the biggest Dorothy around (while Joyce goes like “don’t queer people gravitate towards each other?” and Booster looks at the camera like they’re on The Office.
(Sarah’s pain in the punchline is mostly unrelated to the relational parallels except by the visual parallels to Dorothy. Unless you count some similitudes Sarah has with Joe, which then. Oh, boy.)
Mmhmmmmm.
I mean if we wanna talk about foreshadowing we surely have to talk about the final panel of https://www.dumbingofage.com/2024/comic/book-14/04-for-me-it-was-tuesday/iloveyous/
HUH. OOF, yeah, you’re totally right. I wonder if these words were what finally turned Joe’s pondering into “… oh. OH. She IS actually bi and into Dorothy”, but keeping the info to himself?
What we actually got is so much better but! Scrapped patreon dialogue (free tier!) here and here Doopyboot regaled us with supports the thesis.
I’d say a similarity between Dorothy, Sarah, and Walky, all watching sadly while their attraction is kissing someone else.
Sarah also has, let’s face it. a problem with objectifying the object (heh) of her affections and trauma with relationships (with roots in her parents’ divorce even) until some likely ASD perfect blond came along.
But yeah, that last panel is BIG OOF.
How is Dorothy so terrible, doing this to Joyce.
Yeah how dare she do… Something I am not sure what but how dare she!
I gigglesnorted.
Oh hai Dorothy’s crippling need to infantasize Joyce.
What.
what
remembering that they both have boyfriends, with no agreement to polyamory, is infantalization now?
Oh hai fandom’s crippling need to villify Dorothy.
Some people live to find villains.I don’t get the hate for Dorothy.
is this about the “confused” part?
that’s probably less the infantilizin part, but could very well still be internalized homophobia yeah :(
Or th “confused” part is just using a vague term out of politeness, because naming the real issue would make it too real at the wrong time, leading to a long conversation that it isn’t really the right time for.
I’m not sure if it’s 100% internalized homophobia, although it looks enough like it from the outside that if that’s the intent I’m not gonna argue.
There’s probably at least a little bit because I don’t see how you can really entirely avoid it in this day and age; Dorothy may have accepted on the surface that she’s experiencing a sapphic attraction but the idea of her acting on it for real is probably extra intimidating in the way a het-presenting relationship wouldn’t be. But at the very least, Dorothy knows she’s lying about herself and Joyce is at least giving off signals.
I genuinely think part of it is Dorothy thinking the best way to make sure this gets shut down is to direct the train of thought so that Joyce doesn’t have the same “Oh shit I’m bi” realization that we saw earlier, and keeping her in ignorance, i.e. don’t let her fully process that she’s reciprocally attracted to Dorothy. And you know, that’s really not cool.
At the same time, she’s 100% valid in the other reasons she gives because this would not be cool for either of them in their existing relationships.
Danny was right about that.
what the fuck
Are you one of those people who get their rocks off by making everything a fictional character does seem as bad as possible?
Because you’re doing a bad job of it. You didn’t even accuse her of any sexual misconduct or physical violence.
“Making Joyce walk around the park with wet knickers is cruel! she’s gonna be chapped as hell! This is all part of her dark plot to steal her from Joe! She probably left the sweater vest there for him, and it has like, a pic of Joyce’s mom getting railed by an Alive Mike stitched inside it!”
The devious fucking fiend.
Which is hilarious to me because I think Dorothy is 100% a pillow princess.
Having read every Slipshine update before Danny/Sal and viewed every update on the NSFW Patreon, I cannot confirm this in the slightest. Dorothy’s more prone to taking the lead and dividing the work evenly.
Splits right down the middle does she?
Like Zeniba when Haku busts up her paper doll.
This matches my memories of her slipshines but I would also add that, considering Walky? If Dorothy was a pillow princess, they would never have had sex. She had to all but put his hands on her herself, haha.
See also earlier speculation re: Danny and Amber’s butt plug, which Willis was extremely deliberately ambiguous about the ownership of, and now Dorothy might already own a strap on from her time with him.
To be TOTALLY fair, we’ve only seen her boink dudes. We got no clue what she’s like with another lady, yet XD
I think you’re 100% wrong with the bizarre ”pillow proncess” idea. Really bizarre that you are 100% convinced of it as we. People are so weird with their hot takes.
BRB changing my dating profile to say “pillow proncess”
Dorothy does do that, but what she’s done here is the most correct decision and has nothing to do with infantilizing Joyce.
You misread “we” as “you”, maybe, but otherwise, you’re reaching on this one.
Oh you haven’t make a weird comment misreading something in the most negative light possible in a bit, was starting to get worried .
For me it was Tuesday.
It is Monday actually.
….. why this horrible news.
it Cinco De Mayo as well
today one way or another there’s a Chipotle burrito with my name on it :9
If you’re celebrating Cinco de Mayo, consider supporting your local Mom & Pop type Mexican restaurants rather than big chains. Also consider donating (only if you can) to a charity that’s focused on helping Mexican and other Central & South American immigrants and refugees in the US because they super need it right now.
Im eatin at Chipotle today if only because the one near me is discounting plus i like their honey chicken lol
I understand the irony cuz it like North Mexican cuisine, whereas the site of the battle of Puebla is further south near Mexico City, with their regional cuisine known more for Barbacoa (open flame slow roasted lamb) and chalupas, but I ain’t exactly made of money atm XD
Celebrate Cinco de Mayo by defeating the invading French Empire, keeping it from supplying the pro-slavery confederates in the US civil war. Or pick a modern pro-slavery empire that invades other countries willy nilly.
aw the sweatervest is actually so cute
Maldito seja, Willis!
Porra, é 1 da manhã. Acordei de tanto nervoso que estou para ler a tirinha de hoje e descubro que não vai ter nada?!
Oh fuck, I’m sorry, just hit the button, without cleared the field.
(translation is just Damn You, Willis in Portuguese
I was going to try to guess cognates. This is my guess for the rest:
But on one hand. According to my nervous aunt that is for reading to a trinity of mushrooms and describing what never seen for nothing.
I’m not feeling very confident about that, but it’s better than when I try with Italian.
You just did it wrong in “mushroom” part.
I mixed up hoja and hongo, and hoja was a false friend anyways.
“Mierda, son la una de la mañana. Me acuerdo de lo nervioso que estaba por leer la tira de hoy, y descubro que no va a tener ná?!”
También me pasa, vecino. Es la pasión por DoA que uno lleva dentro
My god. I… I feel.. Actual respect for Dorothy? I didn’t think I was able to feel these feelings…
I might have to see if I actually don’t taste soap when I eat cilantro now. My world view is shattered! SHATTERED!
I love her lil pose up there too. The Ring still tempts her GOllum GollUm.
good luck with covid-that-only-removes-the-soap-taste-from-cilantro-and-does-nothing-else.
You would think, what with genetic engineering and everything, that developing this would be a priority.
It’s probably easier to skip doing pinpoint targeted brain damage and just use thai basil instead.
I love Coriander, but loss of sense of smell (not covid, different problem) makes me understand the soap thing. I suspect that if you cant smell it you can’t taste it!
Probably the best possible outcome.
Dorothy did a Dorothy and denied herself out of her overdeveloped sense of honesty.
But look what they’ve achieved. There’s deeper understanding, deeper appreciation.
It’s not too late for this to happen in a more responsible way.
Goddamn, look at that kiss they’re not doing. Look how close Dorothy and Joyce’s lips aren’t. Look at their fingers conspicuously not being in each other’s pants. Observe, with your eyes, how little sex these women are having.
Buncha bullshit, is what this is. They’re gonna have to kill Joe.
oh my god the cackle I let out on that last bit
Here lies Gazebo Joe. Strangled trying to remove his own sweater vest.
I doubt you were trying to reference this but it made me think of Carrie Fisher and I smiled. He drowned in moonlight, strangled by his own sweater vest.
*throwing my hat on the ground in frustration*
No, no killing yet. Joyce needs to get her man-fix. Then after she has everything she needs from him, then Dotty and Joyce can proceed to stage 2.
It’s true, Dorothy is not cut out to be President.
In that she has some basic integrity? I guess the bar is so low it didn’t just drop below the Marianas Trench—it tunneled through the Earth’s core and popped out somewhere near Portugal, probably dazed, on fire, and still somehow overqualified. That’s how far the standard for being President has sunk.
I mean, figure a 50/50 shot since Roosevelt on an acting president not having any affairs.
holy crap, you’re right. every single US president at least kisses Joyce, here.
It’s the presidential thing to do.
I bet James Buchanan wouldn’t.
Rather than contend verbally with the shipping wars because uuuuggggghhhh (*spite-shipping of Dorothy and Jennifer intensifies*) I would much rather talk about how gosh-danged handsome Joe is in a sweater-vest. Lookit him, bein’ all put together.
The shipping war only exists in the minds of those who consider themselves above it.
I think there’s something along the lines of a shipping war happening with the suez canal
Don’t worry. We’ll take it back right after liberating Canada and Greenland.
Admittedly, liberating Canada from the Canadians is a trifle unconventional, but don’t sweat the small details.
‘Merica will be lib’rating Canadia from the tyrannies of them Queerbeckykwats. Or however you spell it. (durn frenchies)
Surprised it hasn’t been brought up yet, but doesn’t anybody else remember a discussion about this being very similar to how her and Becky interacted? Becky was crushing on her hard, but Joyce just imprinted that as ‘normal’.
Makes complete sense to me that she wouldn’t see anything wrong with this, while Dorothy might.
It’s a possibility. But we know Joyce stated she’s just not attracted to Becky. So I imagine she wouldn’t have blushed for Becky as she have for Dorothy
Crucial lack of flustered blushing and reaching out to cup Becky’s face in that scene but other than that you might be onto something.
The scene makes it quite obvious Joyce feels differently about Dorothy than she did about Becky. Tender looks and cupping Dorothy’s cheek and flat out saying “I wish I could have sex with you” lol
All of Joyce’s interactions with Becky, by comparison, are chaste and “sibling”-y as possible.
Becky full on kisses Joyce directly on the mouth: “Oh gosh, I’m so sorry Becky, but I’m just not attracted to you. You’re still my best friend and I’ll move mountains for you, but we can’t make out even a little.”
Dorothy puts on some nice music and makes eye contact with Joyce: “Holy fuck, it’s time to d-d-d-d–ddddddDO IT”
Well, that not *quite* the way I remember it, but I certainly take your point.
No, Taffy’s right. Joyce was ready to pull out her Blue Eyes White Drogan and activate Dorothy’s trap card.
Dragon* autocorrect fucking WHY?
Joyce is the Blue Eyes White Dragon.
She’s gonna be dragon that sweater vest off of joe
Is that a yugi oh reference?
Yuri oh
Phew… *sags to the ground in relief*
This is going to come back and be an issue later but for now… all is right with the world.
I think that is the sound of my heart being torn in two.
Someone told me it was a good time to come back to dumbing of age. They weren’t wrong.
imagine if willis stopped updating this comic for 3 months straight (well given that the ‘buffer’ is all the way to next year it doesn’t matter compared to other webcomic authors), that’d def be quite something
*Plays, ‘Someone Like You’, by Adèle, on Dorothy’s hacked internal monologue…*
woof I can breathe again
I like them together, but ideally in a less messy situation and not waiting for the boyfriend, y’know?
Be awkward for them to break up over it
tho imagine a smash cut too it being like “man sleeping with joe is great, men are the best i’m def 100% straight now” lol but luckily authors like these don’t pull those kinda april fools kinda panels
I think Joe has finally developed enough emotional intelligence for him to be devastated/heartbroken to find out his girlfriend cheated, even if it was with another girl. One or two in-comic weeks earlier and he’d pay to watch.
Very possibly, but I’m still hoping that he developed enough, selfless, love, emotional, maturity, and security in himself to have a shot at synthesizing those two into a happy little polycule of goodwill, or something along the lines of ethical non-monogamy. (Not to say that that is inherently the superior choice, but to be done well it absolutely needs at least as much and likely even more maturity than healthy relationships already have, I’m pretty sure.)
i wonder if joe would’ve picked up on it/noticed anything versus someone going like “women can be friends/get along without being lesbian” with his prev reputation
walky, in the distance: called it….!
He’d have paid to watch before he was dating Joyce – since it wouldn’t be cheating.
He might still be okay with watching if they talked about it beforehand – since it wouldn’t be cheating.
For the best. Sorry, Joyce/Dorothy shippers, but as much as it might feel good and right, it’s not worth the price of three broken hearts that it would cause to make it happen. At least not yet.
Maybe someday.
I will grant you some people are expressing disappointment or thinking these two aren’t gonna end up smooching later; couldn’t be me, this strip is perfect and everything I wanted to continue shipping the heck outta them, but for sure, some people are for some reason disappointed right now.
Is this more than you bargained for yet?
Oh, don’t mind me, I’m watching
You two from the closet
Wishing to be the friction in your jeans
Isn’t it messed up how I’m just dying to be him?
Oh appropriate reference with the paramore and the going down that didn’t happen
Is that what the motherfucker is saying in that song? I swear, I can barely understand that walking poster for twink death. It’s like he’s drunk and has a mouthful of soup.
Oh god. Oh you’re SO RIGHT.
OK Y’ALL. THIS CALLS FOR A PLAYLIST. Throw me your DoroJoyce pics, punkpop/emo preferred but not required, and I’ll make us another like what we did for BillieRuth.
I mean, seriously, I have already several emo pics in mind and this STARTED with Paramore but y’all are tripping if I don’t put stuff Good Luck Babe.
I may have goth roots but I’m a QUEER goth. Still love this shitty club in my city with the Depeche Mode Specials and Gaga & Divas night playing in different rooms, just a hallway away.)
I have it on good authority that goths will still dance around to the 2000s pop before going back to their postpunk and metal as if nothing happened lol
In
This Dark 
Abode 
we respect Britney, Ke$ha, and Spice Girl
Mother Monster is in the middle of the Venn Diagram, too.
Honestly I think it’s too early to pick out songs just yet… unless they’re strictly for the pining portion of the relationship!
What do you mean, you like HAPPY love songs??
(The pining stage is my fave and DW gave us the ok sdlkgjs)
Consider! The pining part can def fit “All The Things She Said”, which is like. A load-bering song of a Situationship in the #ambiguous stage. How could we not sklgdjslk
Pff, I just feel like I don’t yet know what the tenor of such a playlist should be, so I would have trouble picking out songs. It should maybe be happy or maybe sad!
But my brain is definitely doing one of its “nooooo we don’t have enough information yet to make such a decision” things, and not everyone else is gonna feel the same way, or have the same threshold for “enough”!
Just have “the only exception” on repeat
Extended version that’s 12 hours long!
I think putting Good Luck Babe in a playlist about bisexual women is… Questionable, to say the least. (Now The Giver, on the other hand, we know from their laundry sessions that Dorothy gets the job done.)
“Curses, foiled by my own sense of ethics again!”
But seriously, the only thing you’re confused about is whether or not you’re confused, Dorothy.
Ceiling Kant is watching her Not Masturbate TwT
You know she had to have had that convo she had with Joe playing in her head in that moment before she chickened out. Didn’t joe just straight up say “Ill let you have her if you want”, saying he didn’t think he deserved her or something?
Hmm? I don’t remember /that/…
I… don’t recall that at all. I looked back at their conversation and I can’t find anything like what you’re describing?
They might be confusing it for Willis’ original version of the strip where Joe talks to Dorothy, he shared it on his patreon but it’s publicly viewable.
Where?
https://www.patreon.com/posts/unused-strips-3-123978073 unsure if this will link right but here!
https://www.patreon.com/posts/unused-strips-9-123792318 also here. so twice in the drafts Joe offers to step aside for Dorothy
The only version of this line that has so far made it into the strip is Joe telling Joyce he just wants her to have what she wants wrt her night out getting drunk with Dorothy, which Willis linked as relevant to this whole thing.
I definitely think what we got outclasses this sequence by far. Panels 5 and 6 of the first strip though, are DEFINITELY a gutpunch.
And the likelihood of lines like those re-emerging is high. We gotta brace for it |DDD
Ahhh, yesss, that 4th strip. :O
Oh, wow, thank you all!
I think that was only in an early draft from Patreon, wasn’t it? Willis scrapped that to drag things out longer iirc
I think that was just in discarded strips that Willis put up on Tumblr or somewhere.
It was not in the conversation they actually had, anyway.
Nah, he said nothing of the sort. He basically just told her she should be honest with herself about what she’s feeling because he was concerned about her as a friend.
It was, without a doubt, the best Joe has ever been as a person in this strip, but it wasn’t a noble sacrifice or anything.
Would Joe be okay with his girlfriend having a girlfriend? Maybe, we don’t know at this stage. But he hasn’t made anything that would be construed as an offer.
That leg hike in panel 5 looks a mite desperate.
“The lady doth protest too much, methinks…”
I don’t think it’s performative. She wants to climb that mountain.
Joyce is very short and Joe is very tall. I’m tall, and have experienced this.
Oh ye of little faith… I’ve been on a old walkyverse kick reading the archives and remember at one point Willis had mentioned not being fond of cheating plotlines. However this was many years ago and could be an old take. What has been done cannot be undone and that sweatervest in the front of Joyce’s closet seems less and less like it’s colors are a mere coincidence.
It is… inevitable.
Joe continues to be a fun character. It’s a good time to be reading the comic honestly. The past few months have been the best.
Played the readers like a fiddle. Once again. dyw~
another strip in the “Butterfly Effect” folder, only to be seen again in retrospect
to quote amber: “I think everyone should smooch”
Dorothy was right the first time, bummer she switched to “being confused”.
Internalized biphobia is a bongo.
YUP.
Wait, you’re saying that bi people are not allowed to be confused about anything relationship or emotion related? She literally names what they’re confused about: That they’re both in a monogamous relationship. In your world do bi people get special cheating rights?
Good job on making negative assumptions instead of just asking what was meant! But to answer your question: “you’re just confused” is a sort of common refrain with biphobia (internalized or not), similarly to “it’s just a phase”. I think it’s pretty clear RassilonTDavros read the confusion bit to be about their attraction to each other, not the possible cheating (given the comment they’re replying to).
All that aside, yeah in my world bi people do get special cheating rights : ) for fun
This is an Olympic level jumping to the worst possible conclusions.
Someone help a foreigner out. Are the ”bongo” references some regional slang or a Willis original?
The bongo thing is a Willis original. I believe (though this was before I was reading) it began when a whole bunch of commenters were calling one of the characters a b*tch, which prompted Willis to implement a filter that replaces all instances of that word with “bongo.”
As of this comment (and barring further use while I type it), there are 56 instances of the word “cheat” in this page. Can we get that censored too, just from the exhausting repetition of it?
We should call it oopsiedoodling, in honor of Joyce.
oopsie-canoodling
TRAGIC: Upcoming Amber/Sal/Danny Mario World Record Arc Comment Sections Sullied By Oopsie-Canoodling
Yes. Perfect. No notes.
If Joyce was actually leaning in for a kiss, combined with the apparent lack guilty/being unfazed in going up to Joyce, I do wonder if Joyce was genuinely intending it as a platonic friend-kiss for “practice”? Like she was maybe viewing it the same way she views the hand-holding that happened during the washing-machine masturbation session?
I think that interpretation conflicts with Joyce’s actions. I initially thought it could be a possible pretext but that isn’t the case either. Joyce initiated everything after she declared having sex with Dorothy would be easier than with her boyfriend, side-eyed Dorothy for 2 minutes afterwards in silence, then said she wanted her non-verbally as a love song played in the background, and you know the rest. She communicated her desire pretty smoothly, which speaks to how comfortable she feels with Dorothy since she tends to struggle with that.
Also, she viewed doing laundry with Dorothy as cheating not too long ago. I suspect delayed guilt of some kind.
OTOH, she didn’t actually say anything, which leaves what’s going on in Joyce’s head very ambiguous. Even here, since she got interrupted by Joe at the door, we don’t know what she was going to say in response. This is all deliberate on Willis’s part, to move things forward without resolving the tension.
I generally agree with you, but don’t think Joyce’s wordless response in the last strip is actually ambiguous if that’s what you mean. It would be like calling the last panel in today’s strip ambiguous because Dorothy is silent imo. Would you?
Dorothy says “Joyce, know what you want” after Joyce herself brings up how having sex with Dorothy would make her feel, and then Joyce deliberates turns to her with “the only exception” lyric finally revealing itself to underscore (or added tags lol) the action. There’s no room for plausible alternative interpretation to wonder what else she could’ve been thinking.
What we don’t know is what Joyce was going to say and how exactly she interpreted Dorothy’s words in this strip, which is really interesting. It was a rejection and diminishing of what Joyce was communicating on one hand. I find it curious how she announced Joe was here twice, too. The unresolved tension is great and the transition from the unsaid to what just transpired without revealing Joyce’s thoughts too explicitly was well done. The amount of call backs to earlier stuff, too. How do you feel about the relation between this sequence and what was referred to as round one and two along with how Joyce links them in her mind?
Oops, ignore the bold, that was a mistake.
you’ve assumed it was two minutes of silence, and assumed that she couldn’t be thinking something other than what you’re guessing.
“There’s no room for plausible alternative interpretation to wonder what else she could’ve been thinking”
[fart noise]
People are assuming two minutes passed because the lyrics we saw were two minutes apart, HueSatLight.
I didn’t assume that. I just added up the difference between the songs’ runtime (the bridge of My Heart is in the middle of the 4 min song, Only Exception’s chorus starts after more than a minute of the song). I guess I’m assuming they didn’t just skip the song off-panel without any evidence.
I’m taking what’s given in the actual strip and using familiarity with story telling techniques (as in, that lyric placement is surely purposeful, much like the one in this strip) to draw valid inferences. I guess I’m assuming Willis is doing that. Also, I’m assuming the dialogue between the two are actually related to what the other one is saying, what they said prior, and their actions, too. I guess I also assumed they didn’t talk or say anything off-panel because Dorothy seemingly only just responded to what Joyce said in the last strip. I do think it is possible I’m wrong about all of that, that’s not what I meant by “no room”, I just think it’s overwhelming likely therefore removing ambiguity.
fart noise? I know it’s getting heated in the comments but I ain’t tryna step on any toes. My bad if I’m offending you or you get offended by what I’m saying now. Fr fr, it’s just fun. I’ve been reading this forever but only recently started commenting.
I hesitate to use song lyrics playing to firmly decide on what a specific character is thinking. Maybe it just setting us up. Maybe it’s reflecting Dorothy’s thoughts, not Joyce’s.
When I say it’s ambiguous I don’t really mean the attraction. I think that’s pretty clear by now. But how is Joyce thinking about it: Did she realize and accept that she’s bi? Is it a “doesn’t count if it’s my best friend” thing? Does she apply that to the cheating side of it too? Was she actually going to make out with Dorothy while waiting for Joe to show up? Go farther than making out?
How does her dropping Dorothy to eagerly greet Joe fit into this?
If what she’s thinking was completely unambiguous, what was she actually thinking?
Well, you said Joyce didn’t say anything, which I assumed was in reference to me saying “Joyce said she wanted her non-verbally as a love song played in the background” and I asked for clarification. That was the only part I was talking about and what you go on to list isn’t relevant to that. I already said I agree with everything else.
I get the hesitation, so I’ll explain my reasoning cuz it’s fun. The lyric and Joyce’s movement coincide with each other, so I feel safe making the connection since Joyce’s movement is in response to what Dorothy says and the lyric also works as a response and connects well with what Joyce said about Dorothy (she said Dorothy was an exception to her sexual anxiety while also referencing sex as “with you” to Dorothy out loud, something she’s never done IIRC, another exception for the moment). I’m saying it underscored her action in that moment, not that it was reflecting her exact thoughts about anything else outside that panel since we see lyrics above Dorothy’s head in today’s strip. The song relates to both of them in totality. It reflecting Dorothy’s thoughts in that specific moment makes considerable less sense to me because what Joyce does is the center of that strip’s narrative. How title “The Only Exception” will relate to the story events in the next story line will be interesting.
she also did recently have a convo with jen like “Friends are allowed to make out a little. pretty sure you can bang, once”
Always listen to Jennifer. She has the best advice.
Yeah, I’m really curious what Joyce was thinking before they were interrupted. She’s already made out with Joe plenty and gotten him off, I think she’d be plenty self aware of how flimsy an excuse that would be.
It is peculiar. I thought Joyce would use Jennifer’s words to convince herself she was going have a platonic make out like how she convinced herself Dorothy sending her a titty pic and keeping it was completely normal.
Then I remember she’s called out Jennifer before on similar thoughts she’s voiced and she makes overt romantic gestures towards Dorothy. I get we were supposed to draw parallels between Alice/Jen and Dorothy/Joyce a bit too (one couple leaves and then one enters). With that in mind since we know Alice and Jennifer loved each other romantically, it seems like Joyce was just going for it without any pretense and was about to say something game changing before Joe interrupted.
I’m actually genuinely surprised folks are starting to make a turn towards “Joyce couldn’t possibly know Jennifer wasn’t right,” which like, is not what I was thinking when I first linked the strip to all of this about a week ago, but is sure par for the course for “Joyce’s too sheltered / autistic to be able to make her own decisions”.
Tiresome.
I think that strip was a catalyst here only inasmuch as it startled Joyce and made her IMMEDIATELY think about making out with Dorothy, which was then… more appealing than she’d previously expected it to be.
Like, I think Joyce is far past thinking anything Jennifer says must actually be true.
I just think the way Jennifer said it happened to find a mark in Joyce’s brain that all of Walky’s much more MOCKING statements
(he was only ever making fun of her back in the day — his more serious suggestions that she might be into Dorothy have only been things he’s said directly to Dorothy, without Joyce present)
or Becky’s insecurity… both of which Joyce naturally argued against reflexively rather than actually considering. You know?
TL;DR: if Jennifer’s “advice” made this happen, it’s only because no one else has ever suggested the idea of making out with Dorothy to Joyce without simultaneously teasing her or radiating guilt-inducing jealousy, so that might well have been the first time she ever actually thought about it instead of dismissing the idea out of hand.
I think we have generally similar thoughts on this. I have sensed a lack of media literacy at times, no offense to anyone, but it’s fun to engage with differing opinions and try to back up what you’re saying without anyone getting mad regardless of your position. I love being wrong too.
How you feel about Joyce’s relative directness in contrast with her actions and words during the laundry outing, girls night out, and sex list curating request? She basically gave non-answers when Dorothy asked “why me?” after Joyce revealed she wanted to watch her have sex and order that list instead of discussing it with Joe to abate her anxiety. Contrasting that with her saying little anxiety would be present with [having sex with] Dorothy is interesting.
Me too, me too. I found myself defending the idea that Joyce might be overcompensating with her jump into Joe’s arms, and I don’t have any strong feelings there one way or another; but some part of my brain likes to debate interpretations regardless. I never did get a chance to be part of a mock debate in school, heh.
And gosh, I don’t know. I haven’t really formulated any proper theories about Joyce’s half of this so far, except that I correctly guessed she was gonna go in for the face touch yesterday and that Dorothy would be the one to stop them today. Let me think…
I do think she’s said some awfully suggestive, self-possessed stuff through this whole sequence, and I certainly see an appeal in a fanfic version of this scene where Joyce was deliberately seducing Dorothy the whole time…
…but that, I can’t imagine.
I think right noooow I am most inclined to think that the romantic music and lying side by side with Dorothy while also thinking about how she was about to have sex for the first time*… just kind of got to her.
I imagine a whirlwind in her head that’s somehow also in slow-motion: the peek of Dorothy’s cleavage and how it made her feel, the unanswered question of why Dorothy would have sent that to her, the complicated smile on Dorothy’s face when their eyes met in class — and so many other firsts they’ve done together, side by side, just like this. Especially holding hands: to buy birth control, to almost have her first orgasm, to sneak into a bar where they then spent the night getting gently tipsy and increasingly snuggly. How she confessed to wanting to watch Dorothy and Walky, and how Dorothy didn’t, actually, quite say no.
I think all of that welled up inside her, and she thought about she had been at least this nervous if not more, once, about masturbation: how, in fact, she had once been terrified of masturbation, even more terrified in some ways than she’d ever been of sex… — and how Dorothy had made it less scary.
Just like she’s now making this less scary**.
This thought process makes sense to me, and leads naturally to telling Dorothy it would be easier if they were having sex together — and Dorothy’s reaction is shy, and intriguing, maybe the way Dorothy’s anger was once intriguing — and for the same reason. Joyce doesn’t usually think of Dorothy as someone who gets shy about sex.
So, Joyce rolls over on her side to study this more closely.
All those other feelings still very present.
She’s not really thinking about Joe. She isn’t thinking about how she’s about to do something that might hurt him, because — well, probably for a lot of reasons***. But she hears Dorothy say that she should know what she wants, and she thinks: What I want more than anything right now is to kiss her. And somehow, impossibly, the way she’s looking back at me — does Dorothy want that, too?
And that’s about as far as Joyce’s thinking gets before suddenly Dorothy is pulling away. The moment shatters. Dorothy says she, they, must just be confused.
Joyce’s heart is still absolutely hammering in her chest, flooded with adrenaline and endorphins and dopamine and anticipatory pleasure and—
Joe! That’s Joe knocking, oh heck, right, where’s my sexiest sweater vest!
…that’s my take, anyway. Joyce wasn’t thinking about Joe when she reached for Dorothy, and she’s not thinking about Dorothy as she jumps off the bed.
Hormonal eighteen-year-old full of love and also other feelings is just kinda doing a number on her object permanence, heh.
* I know, I tend to think both the handjob she gave Joe and the mutual masturbation with Dorothy count, but Joyce doesn’t.
** I think “scary” is the wrong word for her feelings about sleeping with Joe at this point but the symmetry of my sentence!! And the feelings are symmetrical, IMHO. Fear/excitement/shame/anxiety all coming together in an intense state of arousal (both definitions). She used to be afraid of both sex AND masturbation, and whatever her intentions, Dorothy got her past a big chunk of that fear and shame. She still has some anxiety, which I suspect she’s sublimating a little bit because she’s also really excited and she doesn’t want Joe to think she’s not ready. But this is why Joyce thought, and said, that this would be easier with Dorothy.
*** Perhaps my most controversial take!! But yeah, in addition to the part where Joyce just plain was not thinking straight (pun), I think…
Well, first of all, on some level I don’t think Joyce thinks of herself as having the power to hurt Joe: some of it lingering gender essentialism (all the way back when, she once tried to argue that hitting Joe for looking at another girl on their date was okay because, as a girl, she couldn’t possibly have hurt him with her weak little fists, ffff), but also… well, she’s said a few things over the course of their dating life that have bugged me.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/malfunction/
I remember being really surprised that the shocking thing Joyce had said here was an f-bomb, and not “that’s what you’re for!”
Just. I dunno. I think they’re very sweet together and good friends, but every now and then I get another little twinge from Joyce’s dialogue, and I wonder if on some level she isn’t still thinking of “Boyfriend” less in terms of a relationship they have to each other and more in terms of a service Joe is providing, which requires the fulfillment of certain roles. Such as hanky-pankying her, and freeing her from her virginity, which is one of the last vestiges she still carries around with her of her fundie upbringing.
None of which means that she would think cheating on Joe is okay — one of the things she was still struggling to unpack about masturbation recently was the idea that it was somehow cheating on him even if she did it alone — but. He told her that was okay.
And then later he told her he didn’t think he was allowed to be jealous of her night out drinking with Dorothy, and that he wants her to have what she wants.
And… look, I don’t think Joyce was necessarily in the right headspace for processing his sad facial expression (and maybe tone) when he said it, and, well, her reaction makes me think she might have even missed it, so.
Even if she had been thinking of Joe at all in that instant, she might also have been misremembering his expressed feelings. She might, in fact, have felt like both Joe and Dorothy had now told her to take what she wants.
But that’s just my, uh, $25 or so, if one’s input is usually valued at $0.02.
I appreciate the in-depth response for sure. I agree with Joyce being impulsive and swept up by the mood of the situation.
One thing too you didn’t mention is she references sex as “with [Dorothy]” out loud but previously otherwise talks about stuff being done or stuff being done to her (hanky-pankied, wrecked, devirginized). I’m not sure if I’m misremembering anything from this storyline, but it seems purposeful and it was only recently she had confessed to not being comfortable with it. Correct me if I’m wrong but that’s pretty big.
@Leon oooooooo
I think it kind of extends out from their class-assignment marriage, too! Which… happened for two reasons that might both now be relevant in a narrative-cohesion sense: first, that she and Joe had been forced to pair up together by being the last students unmatched, and two, that Dorothy had been paired up with Walky, which Joyce had a bit of a visible reaction to in the moment.
But anyway. What happens AFTER that is Joyce regurgitating a bunch of heteronormative gender roles that clearly make her… if not actively unhappy, at least kind of meh, and Dorothy reminds her that they’re actually both wives, and Joyce is immediately able to envision a relationship between two equals where they divide responsibilities according to their individual strengths.
Or, you know, put another way, Joyce has already at least twice expressed that it’s easier or more comfortable to think about this stuff in a way where she’s not just an object for possession and consumption when she thinks about doing it with Dorothy.
Also thank you! But like dang good catch. It was one thing for her to just be referring to it as sex instead of hanky-panky, THAT seems to come and go and I think her use of it with Joe was at least partly playful rather than anything else.
But I do think you’re right about sex with a partner rather than sex that is done to me. That’s a really important lingering fundie brain barrier that I have been, mostly quietly, worrying about.
(Not in the sense of it meaning Joyce isn’t ready, because I think she’s as ready as she’s getting — but in the sense of it being hard for Joe to keep hearing, since he still very much does sometimes think of himself as Sex Monster That Inflicts Sex On People, and darn it, he deserves to get to feel like Sex Participating Human instead.)
(But also I do have faith in Joyce to be able to soothe that pain as soon as she actually knows it’s there.)
Oh, I forgot she also said about not having sex with Jennifer. This is a far less serious moment whereas the other one is decidedly tense after she says it, though. Interesting nonetheless.
Also, she says “Nope, not with me,” mostly repeating back what Jennifer and Joe were just saying, and she’s probably a little distracted, and less likely to actually be thinking about “sex with Jennifer” as a concept for shame to even come into play around her wording.
But yeah, interesting nonetheless…
I knew this would end with pain, I didn’t think so much of it would be MINE.
If I drank I would need a stiff one right now
Honestly, best outcome.
Right now, at least
I’m relieved simultaneously at the events of this strip, and the amount of commenters who, like me, are breathing a deep sigh of relief. These two both need to sort out any issues they might have with their current relationships before they even think of trying something with each other. I refuse to let anyone else get jerked around anymore.
m glad Dorothy reacted, but the problems remain. Let’s hope this moment allows her to think things through. Obviously, it won’t be easy, but it’s better than nothing.
However, Joyce didn’t seem to have second thoughts…she really didn’t have second thoughts.
Yeah, I’m wondering if that’s because Joyce just took what Billie/Jennifer said at face value, if she had the sense to ask Joe about that (since I think she does have some sense that Billy can be wrong and toxic sometimes by now) (at which point Joe potentially could have said he was OK with it, Joyce pointing out that Dorothy is dating Walky, and then Joe immediately calling down the hall to Walky “Hey, do you mind if my girlfriend dates your girlfriend?”), or if she was just thinking something else entirely.
Joyce values Jennifer too much, and yes, she is capable of taking every piece of advice from her as absolute.
I don’t think Joyce took Jennifer’s wisdom at face value after remembering this strip. She’s questioned her idea of “normal” awhile ago and figured out her judgment is questionable. Her actual actions afterwards don’t really line up, either.
If they did have that far-fetched scenario, she really should have told Dorothy about it rather than pushing her towards what she thought would be cheating.
I’m still on the fence as to whether Joyce had any intention of kissing her, or was about to say something else.
Same
Whoop there it is!
I am giving myself a cookie for my private bets with myself about Dorothy being the one to pull away; the blurry Patreon preview just showed a Joe shape.
I’m legit glad things are going this way, it is the exact outcome I was most hopeful for these last few days.
Also? Art continues to be fire, Willis. Love Joyce’s panel two face, the lil cheek-blushes, and I also love Joe’s appearance, his opener, and their embrace.
Also, ofc, Ceiling Dorothy watching them. I hope someone makes that a gravitar somewhere, even if not here.
I fully intend to make that my grave at some point in the future actually. But I also just changed it to this one that I’d been putting off for a while and then new Dorothy drops!
Lol grav not grave. Fuckin auto correct
YOU HAD ME LIKE.. mentally reviewing my own comment rapidly like, oh my god that’s so hard core what did I say lmao
Definitely gonna commission a tombstone that looks like Dotty’s face now
fffff
Ceiling Dorothy is watching you walk away with the woman of her dreams.
niiiiice
Ty Taffy
The real question is: If you had lost the bet with yourself, would you have still gotten a cookie as a payout? Does the house ALWAYS win?
Nah, the house keeps its cookies even when I’m betting against myself.
I didn’t make my bets publicly because I didn’t want to call attention to the preview pane for folks who didn’t wanna be spoiled like that, even after I’d gotten curious enough to check myself.
Really glad someone pulled away, rather than it just being interrupted before the scene reached a climax.
Makes sense that it was Dorothy, because we know what she wants and we know she’s both tempted and knows that it would be cheating, so we get an actual moral decision from her.
But then the interruption cuts off Joyce’s response, which is frustrating and good storytelling. Preserves ambiguity and tension about what Joyce is thinking about the whole scene.
That Joyce seemingly throws herself wholeheartedly at Joe, without even a backward glance at Dorothy says something, but I’m not sure what.
I’m not saying they’re right or wrong because it’s much too early to say, but for the record, the folks who are raising a bit of an eyebrow at how intensely Joyce threw herself at Joe are wondering if actually there might be some conflicted feelings she’s trying to shove down.
I don’t think it’s necessarily overcompensating, but I do kinda think Joyce’s embrace of him would’ve been a little slower (to build up and cherish the moment) if she hadn’t jumped out of her own bed in a little bit of a mad dash to finish dressing and answer the door.
I don’t think so. I try to go with a surface read rather than theorycraft. I don’t think she’s any good at pretending either.
There certainly was a mad dash to finish dressing and answer the door, but I can’t see anything in that but excitement. Joyce is usually a pretty open book if she’s embarrassed or trying to hide something.
I mentioned below a couple times that I have realized I’m just kinda defending the technical possibility of ambiguity in her rush to the door.
If y’all wanna read me go on my longest comment ever on this site, Leona asked what I thought was going through Joyce’s head right now and I made an honest attempt l m a o , but oh my god. I apologize for being so long winded about it.
(Intended as a reply to both thejeff and Adept!)
*Leon, d’oh!
It’s the sweatervest couple hah.
Also Dorothy will watch them have sex hahaha.
It’s okay. She’ll put her hand in front of Joe.
Look, whatever you think of the Joyce/Dorothy ship, them making out and/or banging while in relationships with Joe and Walky is A Very Bad Thing To Do.
Its not because they’re owned by their boyfriends or any crap like that, its because they’re in a committed relationship that is assumed to be exclusive because that’s how all of them think (as has been shown repeatedly in previous strips).
Dorothy could have phrased that a whole lot better, but she’s, erm, off-balance at the moment, and she’s including herself in the “confused” group, so I’m willing to give her a pass on that at the moment.
Respect for one’s romantic partners is a GOOD thing, people! Don’t let your ships blind you to that!
no
This is so silly.
It’s just a story, people are allowed to want The Most Chaos to happen! It’s okay, I promise. No one has lost their morals.
Yeah I never have them to begin with!
Y’know, I was gonna ask about the pile of dead white-naped cranes but this actually answers all of my questions at once.
Hey don’t touch those! They are for my dinner.
LOL i kinda want a smash cut to like the parents/ppl in this series in their 40s being in similar romantic entanglements/dramas, tho married ppl cheating while it does happen would be kinda soap opera-y here too
I am happy that this did not turn into full-blown cheating. I do wonder what Joyce was going to say through.
Either way, I do not really care if Joyce is with Dotty or Joe. I can see the appeal of both ships. It is just that if they had cheated, I would have liked both of the less. I am also wary of ‘bi person cheats’ story lines, because they can, and often do, play into harmful stereotypes.
And here I am, having gone to all the trouble of completely rearranging my diagram of the DoA smoochy chart to get Joyce and Dorothy next to each other, all for nothing. (I mean, give it a storyline or two, I have faith we’ll get there.)
saw this comin’, but it probably got the engines running for the later stuff I guess lol
In 4 years.
Hnnnnnng. Ah well, possibility that door reopens under better circumstances. (Or the trainwreck has just gone into the fourth dimension, to re-emerge when it’s least convenient.)
I still ship these disaster bis *nods*
Wait! And then I noticed the lyric in the last panel! If that ain’t foreshadowing I’ll eat… something I usually wouldn’t!
I was wondering when someone would call out the lyric choice.
I like how Dorothy makes the decision herself to stop what’s happening while Joyce had no intention of stopping, but Joe shows up anyway during this moment. It retains character agency during such a pivotal moment. It actually interrupts whatever Joyce was going to say and I think that would’ve been an even bigger step than that show of intimacy and reciprocation. No takesie backsies type of declaration.
We also got an answer to how the thread of “learning to let each other say yes” was related to this third round of Dorothy/Joyce. Joyce said yes, Dorothy denied it in more ways than one in a panic.
That’s another thing that’s going weigh on her, considering the moves from Joyce’s perspective was probably scary as hell for her to do. She got completely swept up in the mood and acted impulsively. Queerness being inside her all along is going to throw her for a loop. There’s also the combination of nearly cheating on Joe, only being stopped by Dorothy’s hesitation, and initiating the physical contact that clearly wasn’t outside of romance and sexuality.
Yeah. What Joyce was going to say to Dorothy? What??
That’s what’s masterful about this resolution. Dorothy gets tempted and makes the moral choice to reject it, which we’ve seen set up as a conflict for her.
And with the interruption, we don’t get to see Joyce’s response, so what she’s thinking is still ambiguous, leaving tensions to rebuild.
Whatever Joyce was thinking about doing with Dorothy, it leaves her with absolutely no hesitation about turning from Dorothy to Joe. Not sure what that says about Joyce’s intention, but it doesn’t feel like there’s any guilt or conflict there for her.
Or she’s literally running away from the scary, heavy feelings for her bestie into the safe, familiar, heteronormative embrace of her big beefy boyfriend who she is already in a relationship and knows without reservation that it’s ethically okay to smooch. Also she’s probably more conflicted than she’s showing him.
It’s possible, though she’s just shown us that she’s nervous if excited about going farther than smooching. And that “it would be so much easier if it were you.”
I also don’t see Joyce as good at covering up being conflicted.
It may have been building towards ”Dorothy, you are such a dear friend. My perfect cinnamon bun. If I were gay I’d go for you in an instant”, but Dorothy bolted and called the game before Joyce got to it.
Regardless of how bi Joyce actually is, it’s still possible she is utterly clueless about it.
I know this is probably not where this is going, but it’s kind of amusing to think “and then they fucked on the floor and Joe did not clock Dorothy’s presence or that they are blocking her form leaving”.
The bisexual invisibility is truly a powerful force
… until Joyce reached out to Dorothy to hold her hand at The Moment.
Lol she would
But also imagine her doing that and Joe somehow STILL not noticing
Pull a Fans – have Joyce get ’em both!
imagine if it snowballs/butterfly effects to becky finding out, and it causing a breakup between her and dina
Honestly pretty annoyed with the lack of faith this comment section is showing in Becky, Joe, Joyce, and Dorothy that so many people on here were a) Convinced Dotty and Joyce were about the fuck the instant they realized their feelings were mutual, and/or b) absolutely certain that Joyce being into Dotty would just unravel all of Joe and Becky’s years of character progression, as if Becky is *still* defined by her unrequited crush on Joyce, and Joe is only a hair’s width away from falling back into dickhead fuckboy territory.
Yes, depressing.
And to think that yesterday Dorothy seemed like she was going to give in to the impulse… but she stopped, she really stopped.
However, Joyce seemed to be aware of it and didn’t hesitate for a moment.
Over the last few days, I was terrified that the perception of Dorothy would change abruptly, but this strip showed that despite Dorothy’s fatal internal battle, she managed to do the right thing. Unfortunately, the cruel battle continues, and I hope she can get through all of this.
the true test of character is when you keep your values even when they’re inconvenient
and ironically enough it proves that Joyce’s love for Dorothy- whatever form it may take- is not misplaced
Clearly Dorothy needs to be better friends with Jennifer.
Is amazigirl still on the table? I know she’s not so inclined but neither was dorothy until lately. Until lately including when she was looking up at Amazigirl and biting her lip like it was Twilight.
I’m going crazy(er) now. I coulda swore that it was implied Amazi-Girl is bi even if Amber isn’t at one point
But I forget when and can’t find it
Maybe I just made it the fuck up? Aghhhh!
I think a lot of us have been speculating. Amber’s the only one who’s made any kind of concrete statements, and what she said was that she thinks there needs to be “more” wang involved for her purposes, after an invite to watch Dina and Becky.
………this might be a slightly unusual friend group.
Me confuse fan speculation for canon?
Yeah probably…
Get Asher into it
maybe dragging Ethan alongand we’ve got a winner.Something something fucking your trauma. Can’t find the strip sldkgjskld
If we get Asher involved, Walky might be more into it. Right now the potential fuckpile (disclaimer: def not the only type of poly, I love asymmetrical poly actually) definitely suffers from a lack of people Walky is actually attracted to apart from Joyce.
aksjdj apart from DOROTHY
Funny typo tho. Like a peek into an alternate (Walky!)universe.
I thought Jennifer was already a friend of Dorothy.
Last strip was why I almost joined the patreon. The blurred preview in patreon of this strip was why I didn’t join the patreon, also being poor but mostly the blurred preview that clearly showed Dottie sitting up and Joe arriving.
Not to knock the patreon which I’m sure is great but as far as the early comic portion goes every testimony has said it just puts you in a different form of hell.
Well, it can certainly be fun to see how people react to a strip when you know what’s coming immediately afterwards.
It’s made me so incredibly smug, but unable to express that smugness directly. I’ve had to make increasingly abstract gravatars to get the point across.
We appreciate your taking on the role of oracles who cannot be understood until after the fact.
I’m like Cassandra with an electric guitar.
Man, ol’ Apollo did you wrong, he did.
And after I went to the trouble of blowing his back out on the sacred altar.
You ARE a lot more likely to get direct responses from Willis there though, and that’s neat.
I mean on the one hand having the forbidden knowledge can be hell true
On the other hand I can edit comments there, which is grate four someoen liek me who cant type
I disagree, it is honestly considerably more civil that here and wherever there IS issues you can just block the people being weird.
I misread your comment because my eyes are shit, ignore it.
I know it’s supposed to be Paramore but it would be funnier if it was Earth Wind & Fire.
I’m disappointed but also I know this will DEFINITELY lead to the tension building up until Dorothy ends up kissing her (or at least I hope so).
I mean, I’m not surprised, but all the same…
Damn you, Willis!
That phrase is gettin’ said a lot lately.
Now, let’s assume that Walky and Joe are okay with Joyce and Dorothy having their own thing at the same time, imagine Danny and Sal’s reactions to that…
Danny: “Wait, with JOYCE? That’s not one of my exes! Is that even allowed?”
Sal: “Ah mean, he’s also bangin’ Joe now.”
Danny: “What does that have to do with anything?”
Sal: “…what?”
Danny: “What?”
(I don’t actually foresee any poly arrangement between these four where they all get in Charles’s prognosticated fuck pile, I just wanted to jokingly imply Danny already considers Joe an ex.)
Amber won’t accept that until she can see it. In person.
amber has already written all the possible permutations for every cast member.
Sure, but if she SAYS she won’t accept it until she sees it, she might be allowed to watch.
Proper documentation is a critical component of science.
I presume we are laming it out now for things to be even worse and more destructive later.
Well, we better be. These completely fictional characters must suffer for our catharsis.
Real talk: I was convinced the rug pull was gonna be Joyce COMPLETELY misreading the situation and skipping off to meet Joe, blue balling (what’s the female equivalent?) Dotty.
But I join the crowd that is glad this stopped in the most-responsible, least-messy way possible.
Clam jamming.
I thought that was the equivalent to “cock blocking.” Or does it pull double duty?
Come up with a catchy rhyme for “ovaries” and we’ll talk.
Joe freeze.
Side comment: “ovary” and “ovaries” implies “ovarious”.
clam jamming sounds like some kinda silly extreme sport like ‘underwater basket weaving’ or a type of music like denpawave
It’s a Scatman John lyric, from his hit song “Su Su Su Super キ・レ・イ”
Good on you Dorothy, stopping before that went too far. If Joyce and Dorothy weren’t already involved with other people, I would’ve been fine with it. But I really don’t like cheating.
I dunno bout y’all but I’m cravin Chipotle today
Happy Cinco De Mayo to all who celebrate!!! ^^
I live in Texas. We’ve got lots better than that Chipotle stuff. Nearest taqueria is a half mile away.
I think it would had been cool if they had done. I believe cheating is always good and right .I think everyone should cheat, in fact it should be illegal not to cheat.
People hated Nadamás because they told the truth
I am unappreciated in my era.
Nobody’s a prophet in their own lands. Fortunately here your voice can reach further!
Wait, so it is possible to force your partner to break the law just by saying “I want an open relationship”? Because then they’re incapable of cheating. That’s a great way to put your partner in jail the next time you’re annoyed with where they leave their dirty socks.
Lawyers hate this one simple trick
Mostly because they keep getting arrested.
What an arresting development this is.
I’m broke but I’m going to want the book when I get paid – if I miss the Kickstarter, will there be a way to buy this year’s magnets in shop?
Wonder why those lyrics are over dotty specifically. Surely doesn’t mean anything
Anyone have a link to the complete lyric?
Why is she putting on more clothes?
Because she didn’t finish changing before?
Me when I don’t know why she’s putting on more clothes
She can’t go on a date without a sweater vest.
It’s the law.
IKR?- It’s usually better to fuck first and get dinner afterwards. Then you can thoroughly enjoy both, with no risk of hanky-panky blocking yourself if the orgasmically good garlic appetizer makes you feel bloated later.
The more she puts on, the more Joe can take off. Can’t strip your partner nakies if they’re already bare.
I remain impressed by people’s wide variety of terrible takes vis-a-vis blaming these characters for the immense evils of having feelings for one another.
But also:
GOD DAMMIT WILLIS
Look, what you need to realize is that about 50% of all commenters are homophobic and hate to see a bad bongo thriving.
Half of us are (as Taffy put it) homophobic haters.
But the _other_ half of us are followers of the Charter of Charles: All these kids should just get into one big fuck pile.
Alas, poor Dorothy. Right thing to do, but definitely a hard thing to do. Hopeful these two can give this relationship a try once it’s more appropriate.
I was hoping for the D0A version of “Steve eating cereal.”
I was also prepared for a jump cut to Billifer and Alice.
Maybe, once the date is over, Willis will treat us to Dina eating cereal.
One day, when comic crossovers are cool again, Dina and Steve will have a cereal-eat-off. Who can do it best?
Wow, who on earth could have seen Joyce and Dorothy not cheating on their boyfriends coming? /s (despite their obvious feelings for each other)
On a less ‘disappointed with the comments’ note, oh my godddd the feels I felt reading this strip! Especially the first panel, that alone has like, ‘yay Dorothy, doing the right thing even though it hurts’ along with ‘aww Dorothy, doing the right thing even though it hurts 🥺’, and ‘oof, bit of internalised biphobia there’ and just aaaaaaaa.
Zooming in more on the ‘we’re just being… confused’ statement there, like yes, obviously internalised phobia, and oh my god it’s just, seeing her deal with this as she’s figuring out her new queerness, it reminds me of all the times I’ve heard other people describe queer people like us as ‘just confused’ and how many times I thought and hoped that and wished I could dismiss everything as me just being confused.
Also wow, over 150 comments already! :O
Oops messed up my email address so that comment is now in awaiting moderation limbo, anyway wanted to add that just between when I started that and when I finished it the comment count had gone up to 220 :O
All three(four) of them definitely gotta talk this out later, but I’m pretty happy with how this situation… Not resolved, but was defused.
polyamory,
Good start, good start. Let’s hear the rest.
[nodding] yeah
Sold. Movie rights. Million dollar. PSA 10 shadowless Base Set Charizard.
>:D
[Nods] Sage advice.
PLUS (and hear me out) cool sharp medieval-style weaponry for everyone.
Polyarmory.
My big comment’s awaiting moderation because I messed up the email address so let me add another one to summarise for now:
DAMN YOU WILLIS!!!!!!!
I got here in late because this Sunday got stupidly busy and long but
1-I’m here like “booo, reason won over passion, booo”
2- But yeah, this is the healthiest way it could’ve gone better. Is it the best, tho? No idea
3- Joe and Joyce are so stupidly cute together it only enhances the repeated stabbing of the ending. I love that for them and I wanna bawl for Dorothy, who’s there to witness their frame-breaking glomp from the smallest possible panel.
(“We’re confused”, shit that hurts. That Dorothy said it like that is more than the doing the right thing — That’s internalized biphobia, yo.)
ANYWAY. I for one feel like we were narratively edged and the payoff is gonna be awesome so :33 Looking forward to the next moral panic this particular plotline’s gonna cause. Unironically: What a gift. DAMN YOU WILLIS, YOU’RE SO GOOD, look how you’ve whipped this crowd, emotions were through the roof for DAYS.
Countdown for Chapter 04: “The Only Exception”… Begins!
Hey steal my phrase i sue into next week!
It was yours!! Swear I didn’t mean to, I had just gotten there and turboscrolling down to write my comment, and it stood out. Heartfelt Apologies :33
You can apologize to my lawyer! After I get one! Afther I get some money!
Blease I’m just as broke ;AAAA; I can credit you! That’s like paying on exposure!!
Damn, you know the economy’s in shambles when people are suing each other for exposure.
I knew everything had gone to shit when energy drinks went from 1USD to 2.50USD after 2020. I hate to report I was right
I want to say I don’t think Dorothy actually means it that way, but just because she was able to mumble to herself that she might be a Kinsey 2 doesn’t mean she’s stopped being confused about her sexual orientation.
(My alternative reading is that she thinks she must be confused about what Joyce wants from her — because it can’t possibly be what it seems like — and that if not, Joyce must be confused about what she’s inviting, for the same reason…)
(But yeah. I might be hanging my hat on a tiny island of self-acceptance in an ocean of lingering self-doubt.)
In the immortal words of this random tumblr gal: “the worst part about ocd and ocd-like tendencies is that you think hyper-analyzing your thoughts and constantly psychoanalyzing yourself will fix you but that’s actually part of the disorder. it’s the disorder. disordering.”
Dorothy keeps neurodivergency folders with research “for her friends and everything she does is as morally-focused as possible, she’s got a very anxious relation with doing the right thing. Maybe she could’ve accepted her bisexual self in more chill circumstances, nowhere near the immediate future, And she’ would’ve been like “huh ok so I should explore it”, and then get herself a coffee.
But she was instead thrown into the deep end, and these, my friend. Is what in my faraway lands call “throwing hands like a drowning man”: The last, desperate, almost certainly ineffectual resort.
I think it’s fair to read Dorothy’s “confusion” as not biphobia, at least directly, but as more linked to her still processing her bisexual awakening and the changes in how she’s thinking about her feelings for Joyce. It was only days ago she was telling herself it was fine to do sexually adjacent things with Joyce because she was straight so it didn’t mean anything.
And she doesn’t know where Joyce is in that bisexual awakening, so something similar could apply to her as well.
The mess of a Bisexual Awakening here and the vertigo of not knowing where Joyce stands (despite Joyce being THIS close to kissing her!) and the fear of changing anything about their friendship definitely contributes to what she said!
It’s just THAT sentence in particular. “We’re just being confused” is… Trust me, that’s a word-by-word classic of closeted and/or starter wlw and Situationships.
I think that’s not quiiiite the timeline on Dorothy’s mental gymnastics: it’s more like just days ago she was being told by Amber that it was waaaay gayer of her to want to delete the photos, so she should instead send a photo of her own back. As a joke. To be convincingly straight.
Her argument with Joe was much more “no, I can’t be, that would retroactively make me really crappy because in that light I was a jealous weirdo for trying to stop Joyce from being with you instead of a concerned friend” — but in-universe, that was like, earlier today.
Aw MANNN
Never got the impression Walky is a monogamy kinda guy
so ya know if dotty Asked for a threesome-
I’m just sayin
The keyword is “asked”.
Why do you think we can’t see her hands? She’s blindly texting him to formally request a threesome featuring Joyce.
Huh. We can’t see her hands.
i mean sharing is one thing but i don’t think walky and joyce would be able to tolerate each other long enough in this (which is ironic b/c they’re a couple in other iterations)
Oddly enough, I think they’d bicker and all but they’d ultimately just get over it for the sake of hot Dorothy sex.
Joyce does think Sal is hot though – just put a dress on him, she’ll be fine.
Walky, 3 chapters from now: “Y’know, the dress isn’t my favorite, but it’s a small price to pay for the upgrade in sex quality.”
She already brought it up.
Walky was not exactly enthusiastic.
I could *maybe* see Walky being okay with Dorothy having sex with Joyce in theory, but… In practice, he’s already counting himself lucky that Dorothy wants anything to do with him at all and is pretty insecure about their relationship. I feel really bad for Walky. Hopefully this leads up to him drawing a line and following through on breaking up with Dorothy. He’s totally deserving of much better.
Agree with this sentiment but not the phrasing of “he deserves better” as much. What made Walky and Dorothy work in the past no longer stands. Pre-timeskip Dorothy was the moral foundation of the cast, she was the smart one who always knew what to do and she balanced well with Walky because she was always eager to help and take care of him but now Dorothy is in freefall and Walky is in the blast radius and it will either totally crush him or he’ll have to step up and actually take the relationship seriously.
The worst part is that him just picking up and leaving isn’t an option it’s completely expected of him to stick this through and bear the burden because the optics of dumping his girlfriend while she’s in a depressive spiral are fucking awful.
I guess my point is in the end they both deserve better. Dorothy needs support and Walky needs room to breathe and grow at his own pace.
OTOH, Walky could use the motivation to step up, so it could be good for him.
But that’s the Dorothy keeps spiraling because she can’t have Joyce case.
In some variation of the Dorothy & Joyce get together scenario, she’ll have other support and he might feel like a third wheel.
To guess how Joe would react, I was perusing some of his old strips, specifically during Faz is Great, when he was talking to Joyce about her plan to break up Jacob and Raidah. It’s also when Joyce figured out Joe thought she had a chance of being with “someone as beautiful as Jacob”. That she was desirable.
And then the next day she watched Joe’s sex tape.
Fuck, poor Dorothy :/ Joe and Joyce kissing in front of her just adds salt to the wound.
I just hope she tries to talk to Walky about it right away.
I am absolutely desperate to know what’s going on in Joyce’s head. Does she think this is her one female friend she can make out with like Jennifer said? Was she just being touchy and affectionate? Is she reconsidering her relationship with Dorothy now? I am losing my mind here. She’s blushing in that panel, and now she’s just skipping off to get obliterated and doesn’t seem to be bothered by this that much!
I think Joyce took Dorothy’s advice to heart. “Know what you want” is very direct, and Joyce loves direct instructions. I think what Joyce wants right now is to go have sex with Joe. I think what Joyce wanted in this moment that just ended was romantic physical affection with Dorothy. I think what Joyce might want later is equal parts Joe and Dorothy, with eager jump-hugs for all.
Ooof, damn, 200 in like an hour. Godspeed, comments. XD
If the count reaches 700 by noon, we all die.
I mean it’d be 666 no? >:D
529 by 9:17 a.m. CST. Per NGPZ, 666 is def possible. 700 maybe by noon, but not guaranteed. Ah, well, if it happens, it happens.
As of 12:30 where I’m at, we’re at 609. No winner!
Just hit 666
It’s SHOWTIME!!!! >:D
Now at 844.
(oops, 845 with me)
I’m sad but at the same time I’m kind of pleased, because if this happened now, it wasn’t going to be endgame, and I’ve been pretty sure it was going to be endgame for a while.
So this is, instead of anything else, another step towards endgame.
Ship’s back on course, cap’n. Steady as she goes.
(And the reason it’s another step towards endgame is because now they know, but they’re still going to figure a lot of other things out with other people first. Dorothy’s maybe going to get a girlfriend. Maybe Amazi-Girl. That wouldn’t work out but it would be tremendous fun while it lasted. Joyce gets to date around a little while and learn a bunch of things about herself and what she wants out of a relationship. And eventually, well. They already know. They just have to prove it to themselves and each other first.)
I want Dorothy to make out with Amazi-Girl so much. Amber has already been making eyes in that direction, Walky has two hands, and Dorothy deserves to get suffocated by Amazi-Girl’s muscular thighs if that’s what it takes to get her there.
Oh yeah I am here for that, too. Dorothy gets to do the superhero she reported on for so long (and still does), Amazi-Girl figures out she actually does like women and that way, Amber gets to screw around – LITERALLY – with Walky again, Walky gets to work doubletime, everybody wins.
I would SOOO much rather see Dorothy/Amazi-Girl than “Dorothy x Random Blonde #4”, at this rate it’s only a matter of time before someone suggests she hook up with Agatha.
I wouldn’t mind another appearance from The Casey, if we’re talking about random blondes.
Hey so far I’ve seen Jocelyne, Daisy, and now Mindy, so they’ll get around to it.
Somehow this feels…… icky to me. That whole thing was. Mm.
MMMM……………….
Like a jar of jam in a flavor you’re unfamiliar with?
Perhaps a jam that’s a bit too pungent for my taste. But overall very unfamiliar jam, to be sure.
Jam? Well, they did just get clam-jammed
Y’know, the vagina version of the cock-block
… so, I’m trying to figure out who among those four would not be on board with polyamory.
Playing up the hurt at not being considered as pretty as his sister, Walky accuses Joe of being unadventurous and boring in bed.
“I’ve heard that you’ll try anything twice, dude. Shame. I never thought I’d see the day… Say, why don’t you close your eyes and think of someone you phisically admire?”
Morrissey sheds an ex-gay tear of envy. Walky and Joe fuck. Amber teleports to take notes and they’re like “might as well.”
(I think all four of them could be convinced to give it a short tbh, but while Walky is def the polyest of them all, this is not a polysitch particularly appealing him beyond “Dorothy is there.”)
I remain concerned that he’s gonna get anxiety over it and that Joe won’t actually be on board, buuuuuuuuut
on the other hand, the comments AND characters involved spent years speculating that Amber learning Danny was bi and into Ethan would break her heart and destroy her emotionally due to bad associations, and in the end she was just happy (and horny) about it. So, Joe and or Walky could certainly go that route and surprise us.
But also don’t get me wrong, I also think Joyce and Dorothy are capable of soothing these anxieties! I just think probably more mess and owie before anything poly happens.
I cannot envision this happening without ANY kind of drama, even after DoroJoyce straightens up (hah!) their current situation. They’re all like, 18. 19. Prime age to fuck up repeatedly! And Poly is like. You gotta COMMUNICATE for it to work.
But yeah, those two are more than capable of navigating this. Maybe painfully at first but I know they can!!11!
Oh for sure.
I FEEL LIKE we all sometimes fall into the trap of saying “YAY, NOW LET’S GET POLY UP IN HERE” or something and leaving it perhaps implied that we expect there to be real world years of negotiations and navigating conflicted feelings rather than a magic bullet that solves anime forever, as the saying goes…
…but also some folks probably do think OT3s are easier and less dramatic than love triangles…
…and since we aren’t all telepathic, it’s hard to tell which someone’s rooting for lmao.
LIKE.
I’m still going back and forth on Walky especially. On the ONE hand he has been giving off powerful waves of My Sexuality
/Gender IdentityIs Whatever since proooobably around the time he showed up at the campus Questioning Meetup for free pizza and said he’d suck a dick if he had to, and he canonically expressed at least some level of enthusiasm for not only fake dating Amber but also fake polyamory-ing both her and Lucy for his parents.On the other hand, we know he feels like the dissolution of his relationships with Dorothy and Lucy and probably also Amber were all his fault. He’s been pensive and quiet about dating Dorothy again instead of unambiguously happy. And a tipsy Walky responded to Lucy rebounding with Jacob by saying he might as well go walk into the sea.
I’m on record repeatedly as also saying: I find Walky hard to read. Which I think is intentional and also something people struggle with in-universe sometimes. He and Mike weren’t exactly best buds, but he took Mike’s death harder than most of the cast (obviously excepting Amber and Ethan).
On some levels I think he’s doing better than he has been in a long time — he’s found coping mechanisms for his ADHD that help him academically (namely doodling actively and with purpose during lectures… incidentally, Bitty Li did MUCH better in school when they were in a nontraditional school environment where we were not only allowed but encouraged to have full-on sketchbooks out during lectures), and he and Booster get along much better than he and Mike ever did…
But on the other hand, I think he’s now in a relationship with someone who was too busy trying to go back to her own less complicated early-college mindset, and… once again hasn’t noticed that her boyfriend is struggling.
My TL;DR here is really, SOMETIMES Walky is happy-go-lucky and goes with the flow, but sometimes he and Becky have a lot in common — like their tendency to successfully give off the impression of always telling everyone everything immediately while actually being very good at keeping their feelings and their problems bottled up.
I will take a break now from my regularly scheduled Doom and Gloom Dorothy/Walky forecasting to remember that she DID try to help him once she knew he was in a bad spot back then, so if he’s able to open up emotionally and let her know what’s going on, she might be able to help him now… and she might even be more effective at it, now that she’s no longer trying to get a 4.0 GPA or impress Yale with a bunch of extracurriculars.
Many things are possible at this juncture.
Oh no that got so long lmao.
I loved your comment, Li! Great Walky character study.
Aww, ty Rowan
I’m just. Yep. ADHD hyperfocus + gettin’ deep in my head about these characters = many paragraphs.
Obligatory reminder that it’s still poly even if Walky isn’t dating Joe or Joyce. He could choose to go for Amber again, or Asher if hes down, or even just chill on the end of the chain.
Ahaha, yeah it’s ok, I know. Poly encompasses a vast array of non-monogamy and relationship charts :33 Not all the relationships within have to be romantic (or sexual! Or even close!) I just thought it would be funny.
I’ve been here pondering different ships that could make this work without turning it into the famed Seattle Polycule (imagine, even I have heard of it.) Could be an Amber/AG x Walky x Dorothy closed loop, or they could be a hinge with Dorothy connecting to another hinge relationship in Dorothy x Joyce x Joe. Which could be a closed loop too but Dorothy and Joe would need to keep working on that budding closeness that kickstarted all this before even thinking of turning it all into two interconnected triangles
Any of them chilling on the end of the chain except for Dorothy and Joyce makes sense, and Joe and Amber oughta remain Siblings.
… I’m not saying this is what is going to happen in any case :’33 It’s just what I like without breaking anyone apart, ahahah. (It also makes Charles’ unsubtle comments and “Our Peer’s Smoochy Chart Is Basically An Ouroboros” extra funny.) But what I WOULD love for sure is Walky exploring the non-straight side he clearly has.
sjdkglsjd APOLOGIES FOR THE MANIFESTO OF WISHFUL THINKING that got long :’DDD
Never apologize for calm, insightful, and interesting wishful thinking! I support allathat and in particular strongly agree that I want to see Walky get his bisexual exploration on as well.
I think it’s Joe.
He’s in his first relationship. He’s very much concerned that he’s going to fuck things up royally. And introducing polyamory, valid as it is, makes things so, so much more complicated than “I like Joyce, Joyce likes me, we’re bumping uglies”.
Quite frankly, I don’t think, given his history, that Joe is equipped for polyamory. It would cause him to indulge his worst impulses, be the kind of character he was before he started his campaign of self-improvement. That doesn’t necessarily mean that Joyce shouldn’t see other people- Joe needing to control himself by being a one-woman man doesn’t actually affect whether or not she should be monogamous or not- but I do think it means that Joe would be ill-equipped to handle her dating someone else.
Basically, I think polyamory would introduce multivariable calculus into the Joe-Joyce relationship, while Joe’s at a point where he’s still working on y=mx+b
I KNEW IT
Oh my GOD, I have been figuratively holding my breath for the last 3 strips wondering how this would turn out: thank you for doing the right thing, Dotty.
Very good. I am happy that both Dorothy and Joyce are principled people who are not going to harm their partners while they figure out what exactly they mean to each other. ^_^
Genuinely baffled by people seeing this as healthy. This isn’t them acknowledging their feelings, this is them cramming their feelings into a box so they can keep pretending to be straight, complete with Dorothy doing her best Jennifer impression and Joyce immediately acting like nothing happened.
If they kissed, at least they’d have to actually deal with their emotions. As it is, this is basically the least healthy outcome for both of them.
Oh I don’t think anyone’s saying “healthy”. If they are I missed it! I know my own feelings are more like, “Phew, this ship I’m really invested in didn’t start with cheating! The NARRATIVE has acknowledged they both have romantic/sexual feelings for each other though so it’s definitely gonna circle back, and I am relieved and excited for further developments.”
Who said it was healthy? Gimme their home address so I can mail them dog vitamins.
lmfao
…and yet so far away.
Woah wild you mean they DIDN’T immediately do something terrible to other people that they can’t take back, regardless of other feelings? And joyces feelings/attraction to Joe is genuine despite how she might also feel aboutother people? Damn thats wild!
cute doofy goobers the lot of them. IDK about ‘confused’ but whatever it takes to disengage int he moment while still causing fun problems later. o7
I don’t think she meant “confused” as in “this isn’t real”, but rather as in “we’re not thinking with our heads right now”.
(Except that Dorothy is *always* thinking with her head)
I think you could be right! Does *Joyce* know that might be what she meant? MESS FOR EVERYBODY WHEEEE!
also the hell dorothy does she sent her sublimated crush/bestie a titty shot on the advice of Amber. AMBER.
Ok, did anyone else notice that the song lyrics over Dorothy in the very last panel are “Can’t let go”?
I did!
ABSOLUTELY I did
Just couldn’t work it into previous comments.
the lyrics from only exception at this point being “but I can’t let go of what’s in front of me here” is truly music video worthy
Is it weird that my first thought to all of this was “Becky isn’t going to take this situation well when she finds out.”
Becky knew from the very beginning that Dorothy was her rival.
This has been a REPEATED thread of conversation ever since Joyce started accidentally sending Dorothy lewds, if it’s weird we’re all weird here.
I don’t think it’s weird, but I do think it’s interesting how many more displays of concern for “Joe & Becky” or just Becky I’ve seen vs concern for Walky. Nothing wrong with that, just interesting and kinda funny.
Pff love the grav.
I elucidated my many worries for Walky up above but I also wanna address this bc I think there’s a couple of big factors at play for why Walky is getting less air time:
– Walky/Dorothy is currently striking a lot of people as not being in a good place where they’re both happy, so some folks (myself included) think that the two of them breaking up might be better for him regardless of Dorothy’s feelings for Joyce.
– Walky gives off an air of playful goof who goes with the flow and has said things that both indicate technical openness to polyamory and at least indifference to the idea of banging a guy, if not excitement. (I feel like some of his reactions to Asher blurred the line a little tho.) So, some folks are assuming he’d be down with whatever here.
– Beneath the aforementioned goofy surface though there’s a lot of tension and self-loathing in Walky, and he definitely took Mike’s death harder than almost anyone else in the cast, and when he was tipsy his reaction to Lucy rebounding with Jacob was “welp guess I should just walk into the sea” and…….. it’s really hard to predict which side of Walky we’re going to get once Dorothy tells him what’s going on, so the folks who don’t buy into the previous point are probably more hesitant to make predictions.
– Weirdly, I also think Walky is currently significantly less popular than Joe, and perhaps between this and the first two points, some folks are just plain forgetting he exists. I know a couple of people have actively said they forgot he was dating Dorothy, or wondered out loud if he and Dorothy are together right now.
Thanks, I couldn’t help myself lmao.
And ty for the breakdown of possible motivations!! I still find it funny, and I do agree that “Joyce can’t be bi because [reason].” is usually about the first four words and not the reason. I think a lot of the concern trolling about “cheating” came from the same place. “Dorothy and Joyce can’t kiss or it will ruin this comic for me” not because they’re a lil homophobic (or a lot, idk them!) but because it would be ~wrong~.
You’re welcome and thank you
Yeah…
There definitely were very strong negative reactions to Joyce and Jacob too, but I feel like the tendency to hypersexualize all queer things also contributed a lot. People were upset with Joyce for even considering flirting with Jacob while he had a partner, but I don’t think I saw a ton of “oh they’re obviously about to fuck in this restaurant’s bathroom” predictions. And the certainty that Joyce and Dorothy were about to do a lot more than… this… definitely increased the negativity.
But also for sure a good portion of it is purely not liking the ship and struggling with how to express that in a way that doesn’t sound homophobic to their own ears.
I also feel like SOME of the Becky-mentioning is……. not coming from a place of really caring about Becky’s feelings.
“But what about BECKY” has been like the first line of defense from folks who don’t like Dorothy/Joyce as a concept since Becky first kissed Joyce.
SOME people love Becky and are worried for her potential heartbreak, but Becky is an extremely polarizing character, and I think this refrain of “Joyce can’t be bi because BECKY” is a lot more about the first half of that sentence than the second.
Truly, Becky is the Vriska of Indiana U.
Oh no you don’t, I’ve never read Homestuck and I’m not gonna start now.
A couple people have mentioned songs they think would fit Dorothy’s internal monologue, but I love the stanza canonically playing in this scene:
I’ve got a tight grip on reality
But I can’t let go of what’s in front of me here
I know you’re leaving in the morning when you wake up
Leave me with some kind of proof it’s not a dream
just because you can’t doesn’t mean you shouldn’t
Joyce and Joe are really cute together, even adorable! And about what didn’t happen between her and Dorothy a moment before, I’m sure they will be able to handle it as mature people and that it won’t become a source of regret, doubt, sadness, stress and awareness of feelings that will slowly destroy their current relationships or make one of them decide to change schools.
Oh thank god. Good job, Dorothy. Poor kid. But that was the right thing to do.
It’s super weird to me how Joyce seems to have 0% guilt or anxiety about having almost kissed someone other than her boyfriend five seconds ago. Has she ever expressed jealousy (about anyone besides Walky, which was more about her disliking Walky imo) in the comic before? Maybe she doesn’t feel jealousy so it just doesn’t immediately occur to her that making out with slash fucking Dorothy would hurt Joe’s feelings a lot.
It’s possible she doesn’t see doing sexy stuff with another woman as the same as sexy stuff with a man.
It’s also possible she wasn’t planning to kiss Dorothy, which is the only possibility here that doesn’t make me grossed out by her. (If she fully thought it’d be fine kissing her.)
You could technically read her response to Dorothy as not understanding why Dotty suddenly sat up and said that. Loosely, but you could.
Well Billie did tell her that it doesn’t count.
Yup. Good job, Dorothy and that is weird.
We’ve resolved where Dorothy stands and we know that Joyce feels something, but we don’t know what she’s thinking about it.
Rabbit and JD! speak where I think the possibilities lie — Whatever Joyce was thinking about, I don’t think she was thinking about it as “cheating”.
Especially given how fast she jumps into Joe’s embrace — those are not the actions of someone (with Joyce’s upbringing and complexes, anyway) who’s feeling guilty about almost crossing a line, which strongly implies to me that Joyce doesn’t believe she was about to cross one.
Re: your last sentence: …maybe. But the stories I’ve heard about cheating, mostly AITA and RelationshipAdvice, plus fictional explorations of the topic, definitely suggest that there are multiple ways cheaters and near-cheaters react afterwards, and going hard on being romantic and/or sexual with the partner you owe fealty to is definitely one of the reactions.
It’s too soon to say whether Joyce’s enthusiasm is at all overcompensating, I tend to think it’s more adrenaline from what she almost did (good or bad) — but like. It’s certainly one of the things cheaters and near-cheaters do IRL to self-soothe.
No doubt on that, but it’s the IMMEDIACY of it, combined with her reaction during her discussion about “doing laundry” with Joe, at which she was aghast he might even THINK she had done so while they were dating.
Heh, I guess I’m arguing for ambiguity on the jumping and running in the same way other folks are arguing for ambiguity on Panel 2 Joyce’s expression.
We will see what we will see, I am as ever prepared to eat crow haha.
I mean, Willis has a legendary curveball, there are a lot of predictions that might merit a little crow-eating but “Joyce and Dorothy are working through some stuff and it’s all very ambiguous” is not one of ’em.
I hope you bought ahile dorothy stocks were low cause they juat shot way up. Joyce stock stagnates.
Phew! We just had that random bout of heartbreak with Sarah this would’ve been devastating to too many characters
I don’t understand. Shouldn’t they be wearing cowboy hats and be on a camping trip?
heh as of now I just finished watching the pilot of Yuru Camp
small world XD
I was actually trying to make a Brokeback Mountain reference, but I guess I am just showing my age, there.
(that or you were just messing with me. Congratulation, it worked)
I want them to talk about this and form a stable polycule.
And of course Dorothy did the right thing and the crisis was averted.
(The heartbreak wasn’t)
Oh, thank god. I’m not sure how I feel about Joyce and Dorothy together, but if/when their first kiss happens, I don’t want it to be while they’re going behind their partners backs. Cheating isn’t romantic.
ucgipvgp93i4gwejv89028f0238yv0c23h!!!!!!!
Dorothy does have a point, but….. This is going to be on both of their minds going forward.
Someone go give Dotty a hug.
Well, that’s not the explosion I was hoping for but still so much to chew on instead
Dorothy pushing away with a very direct statement which is where Joyce shows uncertainty after so many strips. My read is she was so comfortable that she wasn’t thinking and needs to sit with it, consider what it all means for her
We the get the adorable bit with Joe and at least here Joyce is able to be in both spaces emotionally one after another. I think this probably is also Joyce not necessarily seeing anything intimate with women (at least for her) as really real
And oh Dorothy, you did the right thing but at what cost. At least you’ll get to finally think about your sexuality without someone your attracted to distracting you
That second panel is so facinating
Like Joyce’s view makes me think of Mina Harker and Lucy Westenra from Dracula, very “this is what I do with my close friend which is what any two women besties would do”
And more thoughts, Dorothy here challenges that notion by saying she can’t continue this bc it’s cheating and Joyce now has to consider it a real relationship rather than close besties
> We the get the adorable bit with Joe and at least here Joyce is able to be in both spaces emotionally one after another. I think this probably is also Joyce not necessarily seeing anything intimate with women (at least for her) as really real
This is the most generous case for Joyce here imo, we know it’s been outright stated that Becky skewed her ideas of platonic female friendship.
disclaimer: I don’t think joyce is straight, but I also don’t think she’s jumped straight into knowing she likes girls in any capacity yet.
Yea, especially that last bit. She doesn’t know she has those feelings and this is the second time someone has actually approached her that way
I wouldn’t say Joyce is deluding herself in that way, not after Becky confessing to her and seeing various other examples of wlw couples in her social circle. But the human mind can be incredibly complicated, so who knows.
As you said, the human mind can be incredibly complicated, “what applies to others doesn’t apply to me” is a common way to approach a lot of things in life
And honestly Becky confessing her feelings makes this even more likely cause of well “I didn’t feel anything for Becky who is queen lesbian so surely I can’t have feelings for anyone else”
Tbh yeah, my biggest worry is that if Joyce and Dorothy DO hook up and Becky finds out about it, Becky is going to have a massive angst attack about it because she still carries a torch for Joyce. So it’ll be a “So you’ll be gay for Dorothy, but not for me? Your bestest and longest friend since childhood??” thing.
I think narratively being confronted with Joyce’s sexuality being fluid is where it’s headed but how much Becky makes it blow up is a question
Cause currently I’d say you’ve described the most likely outcome but who knows
Dunno. I mean, Becky wouldn’t be happy, that’s for sure; but she’s seen Dorothy as a rival right from the start, so it probably wouldn’t come as a huge shock either (?)
If I had to guess, I’d say Joyce’s delusion is more along the lines of “OK, I have feelings for Dorothy, but it’s *Dorothy* and she’s super nice and understanding so maybe I get to have my cake and eat it and this is *not* a really selfish thing to want”. But we’ll see. Only Willis is all-knowing.
But it’s weird that Dorothy is doing the right thing with Joyce but had no problem in wanting Walky to cheat on Lucy with her. Maybe her feelings for Joyce are so strong that she’s scared.
I thought she wanted Walky to break up with Lucy to be with her, not cheat on Lucy to mess with both of them.
Though I’m not sure, that if Walky had agreed, she would have waited for him to speak with Lucy first.
Human beings can make seemingly conflicting choices and hold conflicting opinions. That’s not weird, it’s very normal.
*Sigh* Aye. It do be like that.
Makes perfect sense to me — Dorothy seems to value her role as “mom friend to Joyce” significantly more than she values herself, Walky, or Lucy.
And it seems clear (to me, anyway) that part of Dorothy’s deal has been losing her sense of certitude and it seems natural that would manifest as a bit of moral chaos/situational judgements.
Definitely another vote here for “because she didn’t want anyone to cheat, she wanted Walky to end his relationship with Lucy first”, which is why she only tried to kiss him after he said they were probably over.
Like, premature of her there, and he called her on it, but it’s significant in terms of storytelling that she didn’t try to kiss him earlier.
I feel bad for Joyce, her upbringing with Becky, the advice from Billie, getting off with Dorothy
She really hasn’t been well served by her friends, not saying there was any malicious intent but it really has skewed her ideas on certain topics
Or she has been well served by her friends and she’s just sapphic as well and realizing it.
Haven’t seen the comments section this active since Amber beat up Blaine.
bummer for Dor but ecstatic for Joe and Jo.
Apparently I misspelled my own email.
Also I will maintain my hope for a poly situation for these goofballs. And Wally I suppose if it’s a “my girlfriend is dating your girlfriend” type of thing.
Damn!
Joyce on the second panel… she seems so heartbroken and confused. :_(
Well written im so glad for now Dorothy is doing the right thing
im using my brain to imagine them kissing anyone wanna join in
I’ve been doing that for days, no one can stop us.
OMG, matching sweater vests!
I do think Joyce and Joe are incredibly cute together.
Dammit
Joyce: “Threesome?”
Joe: “… No comment.”
Dorothy: “Yes, please.”
Walky walking by: “What?”
Dorothy: “Fine. Foursome.”
Rough remix of https://www.shortpacked.com/comic/no-comment for anyone that doesn’t get it.
I think it’s Mike who said “Fine. Foursome,” actually, in the original. Preserving that would give the line to Joe here, which would be even funnier.
I like your version too, but I was briefly confused about the word balloons myself while reading
So, now we’re back to unhealthy repression. If Dorothy cannot be honest with herself, she’ll never be open and honest to Walky. And do want another Jennifer Billingsworth? This is how you get another Jennifer Billingsworth.
Okay but what if the two Jennifer Billingsworths made out with each other?
Jennifer x Billie
If this were an anime there would be at least like 6 fan comics and like 100 pieces of art exploring the topic on pixiv, I feel a little robbed by western taboos wrt “no it doesn’t make sense and could never happen but hush” different-versions-of-one-character macking on themselves.
(There’s almost always self-loathing in the mix, Jennifer really would be perfect for this niche.)
The search tag you want is ‘clonecest’.
There’s like a LITTLE bit of it but I think we’re just less prone to take one (1) pretty character who’s gone through any kind of significant change and then split them up into their past and present selves.
It still happens for sure, but like, nowhere near the prevalence. We get caught up in silly arguments about whether it’s incest or masturbation, and we also tend to like, try to provide explanations for it, like time travel.
Meanwhile pixiv just has a tag called 短髪ビリーx長髪ビリー and goes wild.
(In this case it would probably be Billie x Jennifer, or vice versa, but I mean, “short hair Billie x long hair Billie” is more fitting the vibe of “don’t care just gonna draw this existential tension as make outs” that I am trying to convey
)
I think that’s kinda jumping the gun a bit. Dorothy can accept and deal with her feelings without acting on them. Deciding to stop herself doesn’t automatically mean that she’ll go back to repressing how she feels. Just like you can accept that you can’t have a relationship with someone and move on, Dotty can accept that she can’t have a relationship with Joyce and move on.
She can accept it and move on, until Joyce comes to talk to her about what just almost happened.
*That* conversation will take a few strips…
I don’t think Dorothy is being dishonest with herself. It looks like she’s 100% aware of her feelings; she’s just decided that it’d be a terrible idea to act on them. And the worst thing is that she is probably right.
DAMN YOU, WILLIS!!!
That’s one sexy sweater vest. Actually two sexy sweater vests.
thank fucking god. dottie ur doing great!!!!
Honestly with the way things are going it doesn’t seem that implausible that Joyce might realize she’s poly.
I know she would have some awareness that poly relationships exist, but would she even realize that’s something that’s a possibility for her in her context?
Seems like something she’d struggle with…
Sierra directly asked Joyce who’s in her polycule after Joyce made an off handed comment about having fit three people in her bed (to watch cartoons), so I mean. It’s been suggested to her face.
Between being an ex- cloistered fundamentalist, and being autistic, it’s very possible for Joyce to be aware of things existing for other people, external to you, yet having no conception of acting on those things herself. Being autistic myself it’s like those situations where someone says “oh, we’re doing xyz later,” and my response is “cool” instead of realizing they might be trying to gauge my interest in doing the same thing.
I feel like I should apologize for my tone! I sometimes totally miss the mark when aiming for like, a friendly kind of pithiness/funniness, and it just comes across as dismissive. Which is super rude.
Absolutely Joyce might not have thought of it as a possibility for herself, I only meant to point out that technically she’s been asked if she had one or not.
Sorry.
(Also, relatable!)
Dorothy was NEVER made to survive ANOTHER adorkable sweater-vest! She’s doomed!
I’m more interested in what Joyce’s reaction means. IMHO,
– She doesn’t appear to be feeling any GUILT, based on the very natural way she jumps at Joe. (compare/contrast to her worrying about how the “laundry” situation would have been cheating)
– Given that, she comes across as “confused” in panel 2, but that could be anything from “What the heck do you MEAN, cheating, Billie said friends do makeouts sometimes” to “what the heck do you MEAN, cheating, we weren’t doing anything close to hanky-panky, just being best friends” — if she were worried she MIGHT have been cheating I don’t think she’d interacting as naturally as she is with Joe.
– Therefore it seems to me a likely conclusion that if Joyce is having a bisexual/poly awakening, she needs some more metaphorical coffee before it starts to surface.
Other thoughts:
– Dorothy doing the right thing here is a good look for her. MY drama llamas want the core cast to generally not be the CAUSE of the drama, at least not via malfeasance. (maybe we need Faz to burst in here again)
– Joe’s matching sweater vest energy is top tier. Even if the SS Joeyce sinks, we’ll always have panels 4 and 5 of today.
– As someone who’s poly, I would really prefer if any journey this situation makes toward a polycule is not unrealistically easy or pat — these folks all have a lot of mental shit to sort through as it is.
Phew!… At least I didn’t pay for Patreon, even when I was deadly curious about Joyce being interested in Dorothy.
Now I know that will never happen again, as what happened with Danny. Enjoy it as it last, storyline ends tomorrow.
I doubt, sincerely, that this will “never happy again” but I also hope Danny gets another shot at MLM.
Oh no! The ball hits a random child in the face! This’ll need stitches.
Also, Dotty? Your music taunts you.
Could be worse. Could be Another Night.
I am going to have to go along with a number of other posters and say, “Damn You Willis!”
Personally I think this was excellent storytelling. We are talking about 18 – 19 year old university students after all.
Good save Dorothy.
Poor Dotty is spinning out hard. She needs to figure out who she is and what she wants, and to be open and honest about pursuing those things.
At first I read that as “God save Dorothy”, and now I’m not sure which is more appropriate.
The one thing I’m having trouble with here is Joyce’s headspace. Let’s assume that she’s into Dorothy, and making bedroom eyes while lying next to her and gently caressing her face is not, somehow, “just what best friends do”- because quite frankly I think that’s a weak line of argument at this point in the comic.
Working off that assumption, the one part I’m having trouble with is the notion that she can go directly from “Dor…Dorothy…I…” into “Oh! Joe’s here! Smoochytimes!” with nary a second of delay. Emotions don’t just get to get turned off and on like that so easily.
That’s an easy one. Her smoochy feelings and excitement for Joe outweigh her smoochy feelings for Dorothy in that moment.
Maybe she’s also feeling a little spooked and jumped at the chance for a distraction so she didn’t have to confront what she was about to do or the fact that Dorothy just openly admitted interest while rejecting her.
Maybe she’s overcompensating by throwing herself at Joe the way everyone claims Dorothy did.
Maybe she’s mega horny now after almost smooching Dorothy and there’s a ready-and-willing-and-non-drama outlet for it at the door.
IDK, there’s lots of reasons she could just outwardly hop from one thing to the other without turning on or off any emotions.
Her brain *is* a fickle bongo!
She might try to talk about this with Dorothy – or even Joe AND Dorothy – before she leaves for her date. Unlikely since we’re so close to the End Of Chapter/Storyline/Whatever, but maybe a dramatic cliffhanger question (“By the way Joe, can Dorothy and I hanky panky eachother sometimes?” and cue shocked reactions from both, end of storyline)
Honestly, you get much better results WITHOUT the assumption — whatever Joyce is feeling, for whatever reason she doesn’t appear to have the slightest twinge of guilt about it given how she reacts to Joe.
You can believe that means she wasn’t going to do anything, or you can believe that means she’d internalized the Billie thesis that you can smooch your female friends without consequence under some circumstances, or you can believe (as I do) that she’s much further behind on the “bisexual awakening” pathway than Dorothy is and hadn’t yet consciously considered it.
In that last case, “Dor… Dorothy… I…” is more of a “… oh, is THAT what we were doing? I didn’t realize I might… OH HEY JOE IS HERE INTROSPECTION CAN BE POSTPONED THIS GOES IN THE ‘JUST GALS BEING PALS’ BUCKET UNTIL I CAN UNPACK IT.”
(I suspect that the foreground unpacking of Joyce’s feelings will be frankly entertaining as hell, if I’m being perfectly honest.)
I do think she’s not 100% aware of *what* she nearly did with Dorothy and what it really means. It’s gonna hit her later.
Dorothy passes the test and will remain herself. She might have to go sailing into the West though.
The West? Gross, Missouri is that way.
And also the Great State of St Louis
And the misnamed pacific ocean! The worst ocean!
Could you elaborate on how the Pacific Ocean is misnamed? This is the first time I’ve seen that idea.
Because, due to its size, it’s actually a very General Ocean.
Aww, poor Dorothy.
It’s the smart and responsible move, sure. It’s also… the least interesting one from a narrative perspective, which I’m a little disappointed about.
I’m sure we’re not done with this little storyline, though. These two will stew in their feelings for a while. I just hope they don’t try to stuff it back down… or if they do, I hope those feelings come out at an appropriately inappropriate time.
…So from the audience’s perspective, this is probably the best way this could’ve gone, right? We have pretty much a confirmation that Dorothy/Joyce *is* possible, but without starting it on an explosive drama spiral of betrayal and shame that will haunt the characters for (real-world) years.
But from Dorothy’s perspective, well, she doesn’t know she’s in a fictional story where set-up plot-points usually have satisfying pay-offs. As far as she knows that’s as close as she’ll ever get to being romantic with Joyce. And that’s pretty hard, even if she probably did the ‘right thing’.
oh what a shame, this moment’s going to come back to bite them in the f- MATCHING SWEATER VESTS! MATCHING SWEATER VESTS!!!!!
UuuuuUUUUuuuUUuuugggggGGgGGgGGGGGGgggghhhhh.
Please tell me that this is the last that we’ll see of this forced-ass pairing. This is like if Joe suddenly started falling in love with Danny, or if Ruth suddenly started falling in love with Walky. Completely out of character and forced as heck.
I get that Dorothy is kinda swerving at the moment and that’s fine. But this should have stopped the moment that Joyce started noticing that Dotty wasn’t just playing around.
Forced??? Come on. If you don’t like the ship, fine, but it’s *been* built up to over several years and feels accurate to the characters motivations.
Mate, if you say so. I strongly disagree. This whole thing feels forced as hell, and if it never gets mentioned again then i’ll consider it a win.
S’less “if V98 says so” and more “if the author says so”.
Willis has multiple publicly available Patreon posts about the unused strips versions of Joe and Dorothy’s conversation, and in them we are treated to a very incomplete list of like 8 strips selected from just the last couple of years, highlighting various hints Willis has been seeding about Joyce and Dorothy’s not at all forced mutual interest in each other.
You don’t have to like the ship but uh. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, you are definitely not in agreement with the creator of an unfinished work, and this ship ain’t done cooking yet.
The author is not god. Just because an author writes something doesn’t automatically mean that it’s good. Yes, the author can absolutely write whatever they want. That’s one of the best things about being an author. But the audience can also think whatever they want about the author’s work, and as an audience member i’m telling you this shit is FORCED.
Perhaps if he had used some of those unused patreon strips then i would feel differently, but having to take to patreon to pay for unreleased and unused b-roll to make a pairing work does not bode well for the credibility of the pairing.
That’s like making a movie where the plot only makes sense if you watch the post-credits bloopers and outtakes. Except it’s even worse because you have to pay extra to see it.
Who knows, if Willis decides to keep going with this pairing then maybe it’ll get better as time passes. I hope so, because right now it’s kind of ass.
Uh.
Anyway, back to the words I actually said:
“You don’t have to like the ship but uh. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, you are definitely not in agreement with the creator of an unfinished work, and this ship ain’t done cooking yet.”
If you need a translation for that last part, which is fair because I might be misusing the kids’ newfangled slang again: Willis isn’t done portraying the ship yet. There’s gonna be a lot more of it. Sorry.
(Oh, also, you totally misread what I said, lol. The unused strips posts are PUBLIC, but also, Willis gave us a bunch of highlights from the main-site strips that showed all of the many hints they had included for Dorothy and Joyce’s feelings, going back several years. That’s not “having to take to patreon to pay for unreleased and unused b-roll” by any definition, as the strips I’m referring to WERE used, and the posts I’m referring to are public.)
Again, if he had decided to actually use those highlights then i might feel differently. At least then i’d know what he was referring to. Because i sure as hell can’t think of anything that even hinted at Joyce and Dorothy being into each other before. Quite the opposite if anything. Everything that i’ve read so far has pointed towards them both being interested in other people. People have gotten whiplash from less.
And again like i said, if Willis is gonna keep going with this thing then i sure hope he has something better cooking for us than this, because so far this ain’t it.
He did use the highlights. That is my point.
The highlights Willis posted were main site strips. They were published. You not remembering doesn’t make them not real. The post where Willis highlights the series of strips which, again, were posted as main-site strips and you have absolutely seen if you’ve read the comic is a public post on the patreon that you do not have to pay for.
So you could, if you wanted, stop trying to bite Li’s head off for informing you and go take a peek yourself to see the highlight reel of all the times in the comic there were hints about this relationship.
Either way, grow the hell up and stop snapping at people just trying to talk to you about imaginary people in a pretend world.
Hey, so because you seemed kinda lost and helpless, I did the incredibly difficult work, spent two (2) minutes scrolling the public posts on Patreon and found exactly the one Li referred to.
https://www.patreon.com/posts/unused-strips-9-123792318
I hope you can muster the willpower and fortitude to click this helpful link that will explain this entire misunderstanding. Thoughts and prayers
Aw, thanks you two.
Where does the story come from, if the author isn’t its god? There’s no higher power dictating the truest form of the story, being forcibly corrupted by the hand of the author. You don’t like the story, and that’s fine, but you’re objectively wrong with the “forced” part. Cope and perspire.
It’s not about where the story comes from, it’s about whether or not the story is good. The author has no power to decided that. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder as they say, and just like Shakespeare didn’t decide whether or not his pieces would stand the test of time, neither does Willis. Or in other words, the author isn’t god. They shape the story yes, but that’s where their influence ends. What happens from there is out of their hands.
If you still don’t get it, think of it this way. Imagine a plot line that you’ve read or watched or listened to that you personally consider forced. Do you think that the author of that plot line intentionally wrote it to make you feel that way? Or do you think that they were trying to write a good plot line and that it missed the mark?
There’s no objectivity in this. I am expressing my thoughts and opinions about this story arch, just the same as you are. The only difference is that you appear to enjoy it, while i find it trite.
Okay, so “forced” for you just means “I don’t like it”. Gotcha. No further value to be had with this kindergarten-level media comprehension.
don’t look now but Willis just called you out on bluesky
just take the L dude
And more importantly, Willis said Danny/Joe was tempting.
This whole thread will have been worth it if we get some more exploration of that, their friendship really fell by the wayside for a while.
Like I get it, you thought fifteen years of Walky telling Dorothy “Joyce is obviously into you”; Joyce gushing over Sal and Jennifer’s bodies (she specifically said she liked imagining doing ‘everything above the neck’ with Sal, then she publicly fantasized about Jennifer’s cleavage); her and Dorothy working together in class to construct a pretend marriage; Becky saying Joyce’s attraction to Jacob makes sense because he’s “the biggest Dorothy I’ve ever seen” and ongoing insecurity about their closeness; Joyce telling Lucy that girls could only be attracted to Walky because they smelled Dorothy on him and Lucy subsequently describing Joyce as “a bisexual version of me”; Joyce being told by Daisy that her self-insert comic has romantic tension between Julia Gray (Joyce) and Doris (Dorothy); Dorothy’s jealous behavior with Jennifer, which Jennifer identified as jealous (“Joyce is not MINE” “Maybe she should be”); the Halloween flashback where Dorothy went to Joyce’s Halloween party in the same costume that got Danny to ask her out (which Danny reminded us of, helpfully); Joyce and Dorothy being mistaken for a couple by the pharmacist when Dorothy took Joyce to get her birth control (which also included Joyce repeatedly suggesting no one would believe they were dating because Dorothy is too hot); Dorothy holding her hand while Joyce reached climax for the first time; Dorothy’s anxiety dream where she and Joyce rode a horse together while Dorothy had no pants; Joyce telling Sarah about how Dorothy taught her to masturbate, insisting “it’s not as gay as it sounds” and being told “it honestly COULDN’T be”; Joyce waking up from multiple dreams about Dorothy which she told a skeptical Sarah were “very heterosexual” (once explicitly because “it’s not like we were riding a horse”); Dorothy trying to prevent Joyce and Joe from getting together and subsequently being an awkward and bitter third wheel on their exercise date; Joyce confessing to Joe that she and Dorothy had masturbated together while also saying “[I haven’t done that since we started dating,] I have been faithful!”; Sarah deciding that the best way to break Joe and Joyce up was to get Dorothy to come ask Joyce to date HER instead……
You thought all of that was just “haha gay” being used as a punchline, very 2006.
But just because you, personally, weren’t taking it seriously doesn’t mean it wasn’t there.
This isn’t even a little bit all of it, by the way. I’ve left out winky nudges like Joyce telling Amazi-Girl she’s “the biggest” “friend of Dorothy”, which is like, 1950s era slang for being queer, or how Robin, still in denial about her own bisexuality, told her class to watch Parks & Recreation and write essays about how totally not gay Leslie and Ann are for each other, and Joyce said “I dunno, I just think they have a nice friendship” (the author thinks Leslie and Ann were very gay for each other, in case that is unclear from the setup); or very recently when Joyce told Dorothy, “I love you,” and then told JOE… well, see the last panel here, from last year: https://www.dumbingofage.com/iloveyous/
Not only is Joyce’s last panel there a CLASSIC case of “bi feelings before you know you’re bi”, Willis has lampshades exactly this sentiment with Danny and Drew, with Drew calling it “classic bi” behavior.
And there’s more! But I am going to stop here because I already know you remember all this stuff but you just assumed none of it mattered.
Mate Joyce literally says she doesn’t love Dorothy “like that” in that very same strip. If a woman telling another woman “i love you” automatically meant that they wanted to bone one another then it would be as taboo (unfortunately) as when men do it, which Joe touches on later in the strip.
Also Taffy very helpfully linked the Patreon post you were talking about. (By the way i’m pretty sure that most people who read these strips don’t follow the patreon, so forgive me for being one of those i guess.) There’s a lot in there about how Dorothy is attracted to Joyce, but that was never really in question. Dorothy has been pretty obviously bi or at least bicurious ever since i can remember. But there’s basically nothing in there that would support Joyce returning those feelings. Outside of jokes (yes they do read as jokes unless you go out of your way to make them not) Joyce has been shown to be pretty firmly straight up until now. ALL of her romantic interests have been men. If anything there’s more suggesting that she’s NOT bi since she was pretty firmly not interested in Becky.
Which is the whole problem. Up until now there has been nothing concrete pointing to Joyce having real romantic feelings for Dorothy. The closest you get is the masturbation scene, but even then they’re sitting on top of a freaking washing machine holding hands. That’s about as non-explicit as you can get, and it fits perfectly with Joyce’s background of being an extremely sheltered homeschooled christian girl with crackjob fundamentalist parents. It tracks that it’s something she might need help to overcome, because she was never going to be able to overcome her hardcoded shame response on her own. And it tracks that it would be Dorothy that does it, because Dorothy is the only one who’s both knowledgeable enough and who Joyce trusts enough to do it at that point.
You seem like you’re very invested in this ship and in the comic as a whole, so maybe things that seem obvious to you aren’t as obvious to other people who aren’t as invested. To me it’s definitely not as obvious as it seems to be to you. To me it’s pretty much completely out of left field. For me the most obvious path that this would take is for Dorothy to have an unrequited love for Joyce (that she eventually gets over), and that Joyce ends up with Joe who at least to me is a much better fit for her on basically every level, and a better fit for the story overall as well.
I’m going to have to ignore most of what you’re going on about for my own sanity, but the strip in question has Joyce saying it doesn’t mean she wants to be with Dorothy but wants to be her, “a separate, distinct feeling that’s impossible to confuse with the other”… that’s pretty obviously pointing to her being misguided. Like, almost over the top heavy-handed with showing that those feelings might not be totally sorted out. Because A LOT of people have experience confusing those feelings, and many others know someone who has or are at least familiar with the context.
Thanks, Yumi!
Now I can just +1 and I don’t have to read that myself.
Damn right.
Oh no, you misunderstand. The unused strip was incredibly forced and rather the rest of this FREE post highlights how the CANON decision allowed much more buildup for Dorothy’s feelings
https://www.patreon.com/posts/unused-strips-9-123792318
+1
Hey, SuperD– Mind if I copypaste your remarks into a critique of the limping gag “Daisy will never get laid”?
What V98 said, but also, I’m not sure it didn’t stop shortly before Joyce realised that Dorothy wasn’t playing around, which I think may happen in panel 2 of this strip.
Oh man, it would actually be so cool if Joe started falling for Danny!! What a good ship idea. Joe would be the less confident one suddenly, and that might be fun to see Danny in a role where (despite still lacking experience) he’s not the least experienced one in a relationship.
Joe/Danny would be extremely comedically rewarding. I think Joe’s been a little evasive before when asked about his sexuality – not that that’s confirmation one way or the other.
Joe is at least open to the idea of/not repulsed by the possibility of not being straight, for sure. His comment about one of his previous partners (Malaya) having come out as nonbinary might have been a bit ick in context, but he wasn’t freaked out about having banged not-a-lady or the idea that it made him a little queer. So yeah, fully agree that he’s a little hard to pin down on that for sure.
Also yeah, I legitimately just want to see it for the fun and silly possibilities of it.
I think it could be really cute, unironically, for all the reasons you’ve already said.
If by “forced”, you mean Willis has been slowly building towards this and teasing this for many years and it’s definitely going to be relevant future storylines…
Seriously, you’re free not to like it, ship tastes are a matter of preference after all, but it’s definitely not forced.
How? Seriously, how? Dotty is like Joyce’s mother or older sister. She’s basically a guardian, or a mentor. Whenever Joyce is unsure about something, Dorothy is the one she goes to for advice. She’s basically Joyce’s lexicon in “all things not home-schooled or christian”. Which is fine for a best friend, but for a relationship partner? That’s trouble waiting to happen.
No she is not.
Listen, if we’re gonna sit here going “nuh uh” and “yuh huh” back and forth at each other then i’m out.
You’re the only one bringing that up. Dorothy isn’t Joyce’s mom, she’s not her older sister, she’s not her guardian. I’ll give you “mentor”, because that can be very broad, but there’s no trouble waiting to happen just because Dorothy knows non-church stuff and is willing to guide Joyce through it. You’re making up a problematic power dynamic that just does not exist in the story. It doesn’t. There’s nothing to even disagree on, you’re literally just inventing a problem to upset yourself with. That’s not illegal, but making it other people’s problem is kinda crummy behavior.
I actually agree with Superducked here! Dorothy definitely values her role as a caretaker and guardian for Joyce. It’s something – maybe the *only* thing – that she likes about herself right now.
I’d also agree that this could be a troublesome quality to have in a relationship partner. Joyce will basically do whatever Dorothy tells her to do and Dorothy will run herself ragged to help or protect Joyce. It would probably end up being a codependent relationship, or at least one with codependency issues that need to be resolved.
Your last paragraph isn’t really supported by the text, thankfully.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/standing-2/
I think last-panel Joyce does a great job of summing up how she actually feels about “doing whatever Dorothy tells her to”, and she also memorably (well, memorably to me) has yelled and even snarled at Dorothy to back off more than once. (“Stop trying to change me, I have to see my parents this weekend and I’ve already changed enough,” after Dorothy tried to gently tell her that a marriage with a man didn’t have to adhere to strict gender roles; and of course when she yelled at everyone to get out of her butt about birth control.)
Joyce herself recently framed their dynamic as having learned how to let each other say “yes”, which is completely healthy.
As for Dorothy running herself ragged to protect Joyce… I’d agree, if the dranks storyline hadn’t addressed that head on and shown us Dorothy relaxing, while also having Joyce jump to protect Dorothy from a barfly:
https://www.dumbingofage.com/frosty/
They definitely have a lot to navigate here, on account of both having boyfriends, but there is no unequal power dynamic. Folks are just confusing Mom Friend (someone who brings extra sunscreen and water bottles to the beach for everyone, and reminds folks about daylight savings time or, like, tax season) with Literal Mom.
Right, but of course Dorothy wants to keep her best friend safe. That’s just her being protective, not this “mother” shit I keep seeing. Besides that, Joyce knows Dorothy’s occasionally full of shit. She won’t just blindly follow Dorothy’s lead, she branches off on her own plenty of times. There’s no value in pretending these characters don’t exhibit the traits we don’t want to notice.
Right? I just can’t help seeing these “Dorothy is Joyce’s mom” comments as translations of “Dorothy cares too much about Joyce” which… sorry do we not want people who really care about and trust each other to end up in relationships? People are desperate to find a reason they think this pairing is icky.
Hmm, okay Li and Taffy. Your textual evidence has convinced me that this isn’t a codependent or toxic relationship, at least not now.
That makes me want to ship it less though, which makes me sad! :'(
Things could always get more interesting without character backsliding, though I don’t see how.
Haha, hey, that is fair and valid. Toxic Yuri isn’t always my particular bag but we love and respect the shippers of it in this house. You’ve got my ax, or whatever.
That’s exactly what i’m saying!
If i were Dorothy in this situation then i would value my friendship with Joyce over any romantic feelings that i might have for her. I would also be extremely hesitant to pursue a romantic relationship with her specifically because of the uneven relationship dynamic.
I really don’t understand why people ship these two so hard. But then again i never really understood shippers in general to begin with. Always seemed kinda obsessive and irrational to me.
“Joyce ends up with Joe who at least to me is a much better fit for her on basically every level, and a better fit for the story overall as well.”
– Superducked, 2025
You’re a shipper too. That’s what shipping is. “I would like to/it make sense if we see these 2+ characters together for x, y, z reasons” is declaring a ship.
Also genuinely hilarious, given the aggression and length of many of your replies today, to see you say you don’t understand shippers because of their “obsessive and irrational” behavior. I mean, at least one of those has to make sense to you… surely?
Two people who are the exact same age and who are friends who care for one another is not an uneven relationship dynamic. If you personally wouldn’t go for it, that’s fine? No one is trying to make you? Doesn’t make the relationship objectively bad or problematic, it’s just not your vibe.
I think Dorothy would agree with everything you’re saying here!
But love is a force sometimes too strong to be contained. I’ve certainly had strong romantic feelings for friends before, even though I would logically know it’d be a bad idea. I guess folks reading this comic might just see themselves in that Joyce/Dorothy dynamic and are hoping for the thrill of vicariously pursuing ill-fated love.
This does actually raise some consideration of if Joyce’s attraction to Dorothy may partially stem from having someone who can take the lead, and guide. I’m not trying to tie replacing the patriarchal void of hardcore Christianity with a matriarchal mentor-to-lover to vibe but…
Well the string is there.
It’s certainly possible, but all their interactions since the timeskip have, imho, increasingly leaned towards Joyce at the very least topping from the bottom in this relationship, heh.
So… age-gap without the age gap?
Nothing wrong with having a different opinion.
I will say your last sentence doesn’t make sense since Joyce initiated in the first place.
I don’t really agree with your subsequent comments deeper in this thread, but I do find this pairing a little odd. I’d normally expect to be crazy about it, but it’s just not landing right. Maybe I’m just not that keen on Dorothy, or maybe it isn’t toxic enough for my liking (I’ll always be ride-or-die for Ruth/Billie), or maybe it’s fulfilling a romantic fantasy that I just don’t relate to. I’m perplexed.
I do disagree, though, with the idea that this isn’t believable because Dorothy moms Joyce so hard. I’ve been told I’m a bit of a mom friend myself, and sometimes that overlaps with people I’m attracted to. It can be an unhealthy habit if it’s controlling or condescending (as Dorothy has often been to Joyce), but it doesn’t magically make you family members and therefore incompatible.
Oh. Maybe that’s why I don’t care much for Dorothy and her attached plotlines – she’s far too close to me for comfort.
given that your example of similarly forced things includes Ruth being in a self destructive relationship with a mediocre man and Joe dating a wholesome loser, i kinda think you’re just bad at reading in general.
This is easily the most set up and foreshadowed pairing in the *entire comic* and the fact that you see it as “forced” is probably deeeeeep set heteronormative BS.
ding ding dingggg
Toxic heteronormativity? Can that be a thing?
Ok… first off, called Dotty calling it off. Glad it happened before Joe knocked, to remove any ambiguity over Dotty’s headspace.
I have been saying for a while that I am completely on board with Joyrothy happening in principle, but neither of them are in a place to make it actually work. My wife and I knew we each other all through college and could have dated, but didn’t – and I don’t know if we would be married now if we had started dating in college. We were just different people then. It doesn’t matter to me if Joyrothy are exclusive or part of a polycule – they both need to further develop these feelings and own them before that can share them with each other.
I think both Dotty and Joyce need to explore these bi/Sapphic feelings with someone else before they get together, to give their relationship the best chance of working. Who that would be is fun speculation. Selfishly I would love to see Dotty and Alice, although I have no idea if that would actually be a good pairing. I could see Billifer getting involved with either of them at some point, which would increase the drama quotient. Not sure if AG has any sapphic leanings, so not sure if that would work.
Regardless… hell of a build up, and beautifully done Willis.
I’m gonna eat drywall
Willis you son of a bongo
I have to stop reading the comments with a mouth full of liquid. This phone was fucking expensive, you saboteurs.
Dorothy is made of stern moral fiber.
It’s machine washable!
Well played.
Polyamory is a valid lifestyle choice, but it’s something all parties involved have to agree on beforehand.
I think Joe would be fine with it, but if he’s part of the polycule he deserves to be consulted.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
I mean, sure, panicking and saying dumb stuff was also an option.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
I mean. Yeah, no that’s good. No cheating. Yeah.
But.. ALKJKSAFHKOASFJLSAF
Trying a new profile pic so I can avoid the Curse Of Fuckface.
Testing!
Dangit. I’ll have to figure this out later…
Success!!!
YESSSS!!!!
If you’d like it without the leftovers from the panel, I happen to have already done the work.
Fucking ouch?
I meant fire as in awesome work! As you did cool thing!
I would never light you on fire taffy!
If I know Taffy he is right at this very moment lighting himself on fire just to spite your concern.
(Joking!!!! For anyone less familiar with Taffy’s contrary sarcastic sense of humor.)
You can tell it’s a joke because Li said “he” instead of “they”.
For the record, I was actually looking up a way to twist “I would never light you on fire” into some kind of actionable threat Florence was aiming at me.
Aw, dang. Noted!!
Aww, that’s kind of you to offer!
Although T B H, it’d kinda be weird considering how often we interact with each other. I think a friend drew some art of me once, I’ll dig that up and use it as a profile pic
Suit yourself. I go through these things like boyfriends in the 1990s.
One interesting thing about this storyline that I haven’t seen discussed much is that it’s so odd to have a long sequence intimately involving Joyce and not have it be from her perspective, given that she’s the closest thing we have to a main character. We almost always have a good idea of what she’s thinking and feeling, but not this time.
In panel 2, we could find out that she was about to say anything from “Dorothy, I don’t know what you’re talking about,” to “Dorothy, I’m in love with you,” and I would buy it. I’m dying to know what she was going to say, which means we probably won’t find out for months.
I have never wanted a Polycule Solution as much as I do here.
I’m really angry with Joyce right here. She was like one moment away from cheating on Joe who has been an incredible boyfriend to her, and now he knocks at the door and she jumps into his arms like nothing was happening. I hope she doesn’t use her autism or her lack of dating experience as an excuse for this shitty behavior. And just a reminder – POLY IS NOT AN EXCUSE TO CHEAT EITHER. I really wonder how Joe would feel if he found out about this. I kind of hope he does.
It’s possible you’re wrong about that loaded C-word and how guaranteed it was before Dorothy spoke sense. That’s on the board, you don’t have to be angry if you don’t want to.
C word? Are you censoring the word cheating?
I’ll censor whatever I want
Give them both a *little* slack. Like 20 minutes ago Joyce was not even aware that Dorothy was on the playing field, and Dotty thought her feelings were intrinsically doomed. Give them 5 minutes to get from “Oh, this is a thing” to “But we shouldn’t act on it right now.”
And I’m pretty sure if Joe finds out about this, which he will eventually because there’s no way this is the end of it, his reaction will probably be “Yeah, I kinda figured” and whatever comes after that will depend on the decisions Joyce has made in the interstitial space between this moment and that one.
I don’t want Joe to be hurt. I don’t want him have his trust better the first time he stops being a player, let’s down his walls and tries to be in touch with his feelings and make a genuine emotional connection.
*betrayed
I mean, let’s point out that you’re saying “he’s been an incredible boyfriend” while jumping over Joyce for having a moment of ill-thought weakness, but…He did *literally the same thing*? Sarah offered to fuck (insincerely) and he immediately agreed on impulse? Would he have gone through with it once his hindbrain let go of the controls? Obviously not. But why does Joe get the benefit of the doubt on that but Joyce doesn’t?
Joyce is incredibly sheltered, I don’t think she knew anything untoward was unfolding. We’re gonna get a strip in a few month’s time with Dorothy being all “I can’t believe I almost kissed you in your bed” and Joyce is gonna be all “what?!”
You’re right. I guess maybe I’m not so much mad at Joyce as mad at the comments section clamoring for Joyce and Dorothy to hook up. It feels like everyone is eager for Joyce to cheat so long as it’s gay because “yay everyone be gay” with complete disregard for Joe, his personal development and their relationship development. Feels like everyone in the comments is cool with cheating as long as it’s a person leaving a straight relationship for a gay one.
Cheating actively cool and everyone should do it all the time.
IN FICTION, YES. IT IS ETHICALLY NEUTRAL TO CHEER ON FICTIONAL INFIDELITY. IT DOES NOT REFLECT AT ALL ON OUR REAL LIFE VALUES.
Since this is a long-running narrative handled by a competent writer, the downsides of cheering on fictional infidelity are that it’ll negatively impact a lot of characters, including Joyce and Dorothy, muddy the waters in regards to what kind of people they are, and steer the narrative in all sorts of uncomfortable directions. If you’re good with that, there’s no problem. I’m literally only here to see them kiss eventually (and because Willis turns out to be very good at this webcomic thing), but I’m honestly not sure when or how it’ll happen, and this probably wasn’t a good time anyway.
No no, my sinful cheering is not going to impact the story.
I have this thing written and uploaded a year in advance! all the sin therein is already baked in
Crispy, delicious sin enchilada :9
My compliments to the chef!
I’m very amused by how perfect your gravatar is
Love the little “can’t let go” from the song with Dorothy pining even if she was the one to break off… whatever was about to happen
I don’t really read all of this as Joyce was about to cheat. Maybe Joyce/Dorothy is endgame, I don’t know, but I think she just really really is very open with expressing her love for Dorothy and doesn’t recognize it as romantic even if it really is. I’m also going to say here I am rooting for Dorothy and Walky to go start a polycule with Amber lol
That is also definitely a possibility, that Joyce is so sheltered and/or straight that she can’t even fathom her behavior towards Dorothy being interpreted romantically/sexually
I need you four to sit down and have a conversation.
♫Rewind, induce amnesia,
Forget the truth, it’s easier.
You’re just confused, believe her
When she says there’s nothing there…♫
the really funny thing about this is that dorothy had sex with walky like, two hours ago. going from sex with your boyfriend to almost making out with your existentially threatening girl crush in the same day is such a quintessentially collegiate thing
like if nothing else that is a LOT of socialization!
Dorothy’s a busy woman, and it’s not fair to call her lazy.
…damn you Willis
Do they need to set up a cuck chair for her? If they’re doing it on the top bunk would it need to be a high chair?
She’s in the top bunk, so I think the chair is unnecessary as she’ll have a front row view from the splash zone already.
A cuck bunk you might say.
I’ll see myself out.
I don’t think somebody outside of a relationship can get cucked by the two people actually in the relationship being intimate with each other lol
Not with that attitude.
explain this then https://www.dumbingofage.com/2023/comic/book-14/02-its-the-love-i-havent-got/liftweights/
At the rate things are going, she’s gonna run out to the hallway and ask if she can watch.
OK, thank whatever God there may be, Willis DIDN’T go the mindfuck route of switching to another group of characters.
I don’t think Joyce is thinking about cheating at all. Because Dorothy is special.
a) Joyce is comfortable talking about sex
with Dorothy.
b) Joyce is comfortable thinking about
sex with Dorothy.
Don’t care for the word “confused” its usually used to slam or otherwise diminish LGBT people. You come out and your parents go your not one of THOSE people, you are just confused.
Yeah not a fan of that. I feel like it was intentional (on Willis’ part, not Dotty’s) to pull that comparison.
Valid, but I fully went through a “confused” period in college so it feels very true to life to me. Of course that was in the Reagan era and we didn’t have the resources the kids do now (and thank Bob they do!)… Ymmv
Everything else aside, adorable that Joe wore a sweatervest.
I feel like in any other comic that would have been an incredibly touching highpoint, but it happens NOW, so it’s incredibly easy to miss.
I have been pleading that this wasn’t going to end in the ruin of Joyce and Joe’s relationship, so HOW ON EARTH did you make Dorothy being a grownup MORE HEARTWRENCHING than her trashing two relationships??
DAMN YOU WILLIS!
It took me way too long to come up with the best joke for the situation possible.
I sink therefore I am.
850+ comments, DAMN!!!! I don’t think we’ve seen CLOSE to this many since Sister Christian :0
Yeah, but I had a dream last night about today’s strip, and it got to 1,034 comments, so we’re not there yet.
(Also, the strip in my dream featured Danny.)
Was he with Joe by any chance? o3o
Also was Dina there?
dang we’ve been reaching [Sister, Christian] numbers of comments these last few days, huh? I oughta double check, but I wonder if DOA ever broke the 1K mark before
me
NGPZ
It is possible it did during the Carlaggedon but we never know for sure since Willis had to nuke the comments.
Mind you those were “nuked” pre-emptively for a very good reason
It broke 1k at least three times.
The bisexual, polyamorous struggle:
I want to see Dorothy x Joyce, AND i want to se Joe x Joyce.
I really want Joyce to explore both these things but not really at the same time cause that would overwhelm her.
Lol can’t believe no one’s pointed out yet that the Kickstarter announcement switched to bisexual colors on today’s strip
Dorothy is so cute in the last panel omg
I like when Joe dresses or acts like a Nice Jewish Boy™️