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Enbies, ladies and gentlemen,
Brace yourselves, for we are about to witness something truly remarkable.
May The Force be with these homiez, and may The Force be with you all.
*plays “Star Wars Theme” on hacked muzak and frantically munches popcorn*
Obligatory Star Wars reference to you and to all the commentariate. Oh, yeah, and to the artist what draws this as well.
I’ve been chanting “DO IT” long enough I can also spare a May the 4th for y’all 8DD Also…
Comrades, Scholars, people of this section (exceptions notwithstanding): The future is uncertain but it’s being a pleasure to yell with y’all. I know the “Damn You Willis” will be heard ’round the globe tomorrow — Only things left to see are the cause and how it effects us.
the fourth will be with you… always. ~<3
Yeah… so I read that as:
Smash, they must. Resist the will of the Force, they cannot. MmmMMmm.
No protection, they have. Forget their exclusive boyfriends, they should not. MMMM? Succumbing to temptation, they should fear. Their love is pure, but, their lives are complex!
They can use some saran wrap for protection. It’s an ancient lesbian classic.
Eww. Gross. Ancient for a reason.
Does anybody still actually do that? Oral sex is a pretty low risk activity, and for these two it’s essentially zero. At their age, they’ve had their HPV and chicken pox shots, they’ve got zero HIV risk, just eww.
(I was just talking to my FWB last night about how much I enjoy making her squirt in my mouth. For both of us it’s way higher risk than for these two, and it’s still low risk. Screw that noise, I’m eating pussy, not a piece of plastic.)
There are other things than HIV, and if you’re doing oral, both the mouth and the vulva will have microbes that do not fit the other area’s healthy flora. A dental dam is not death. It’s awkward, sure, and it should definitely be flavoured, but come *on*. It’s worth the safety.
Also worked in Pushing Daisies.
Can we add Daft Punk’s ”Something About Us” to the hacked Muzak playlist?
It’s not SW music but look into my eyes and tell me it doesn’t fit.
eye contact be an autistic nono for me, but I do agree the song fits :)
Yeah, Joe and Becky are going to have the exact same thing to be upset with Joyce and Dorothy about.
I’ve enjoyed a Star War here and there, but this scene brings my brain closer to Bongo, specifically the song “Too Good to Be True” as performed by Dinah Shore.
“You’re just too good to be true…can’t take my eyes off of you…you feel like heaven to touch….I wanna hold you so much…at long last love has arrived…and I thank god I’m alive…you’re just too good to be true…can’t take my eyes off of you….”
*Cue the trumpets*
“May the Fourth” is all well and good, but if they go any further, they will probably wind up suffering the Revenge of the Sixth.
Uh oh
While I want to see this become nsfw; how is Joyce going to tell Joe? Will she tell Joe, or try to hide it? If she, and Dorothy have sex then will she still want to have sex with Joe? How is Dorothy going to tell Walky? Is there a polycule in our future?
I have many questions, and no answers. What do y’all think?
I _want_ that polycule. I do not expect it though.
I know it is an unlikely outcome, but I’ve been wrong before.
Also it took me a moment to realize you were adding emphasis; I’m more used to seeing /this/ as being the emphasis marks.
Back in the BBS days we did *this*.
I think this is on the knife’s edge of cheating (what happens next will determine if that face touching is a poignant recognition of what cannot be or an invitation into what should not be). I think, if they cheat, neither would not try to hide it – the guilt would burn these two up like a gasoline soaked matchstick. I have no idea how they would break the news, though, and I seriously doubt their is polycule in our future. Walky is a sensitive enough to be stung deeply by this betrayl and Joe is with Joyce precisely because he wants to have a monogamous relationship with a woman rather than the constant vapid flings of his past or the relentless cheating that defined his father.
What the heck is BBS?
Bulletin Board Systems. How computers communicated before the Internet.
Also after the Internet but before the Web. And arguably, a lot of BBS style just migrated to the web, in the form of comment sections on articles and webcomics.
I’ve always seen the convention that *this* means boldface and _this_ means italics (which was represented by / equivalent to backspace+underscore on mechanical typewriters).
BBS was “Bulletin-Board System”… it was the early versions of things like Reddit. A website that like-minded folks could communicate, post files, comment on posts, etc.
I never really used them (I was hitting college in the very early days of the Internet… early to mid 90s… yeah, I’m old.) but I still use asterisks as my notation for emphasis.
That is pretty cool. Thank you for teaching me something.
That’s sort of it but BBSs weren’t on the internet, you had to turn on your modem and use it to dial the phone number of someone else’s computer and the BBS showed up in your terminal, and you could post and message other people who also dialed in with their modem. It was a strange and wonderful time.
Usenets…aww yissss
Isn’t that what you call… a forum?
I still use *this* or _this_ for emphasis. Sometimes the site is coded correctly, and it actually does that it should.
Late ’70s through earliest ’90s.
Because I can’t reply to your next comment, obligatory XKCD:
https://xkcd.com/1053/
There’s an XKCD for everything.
big beautiful sushi
I use *these* as action explanation, like *Zombie starts dancing poorly*
Since a number of sites (Gchat, Discord) will turn *these* into bold or italic, I’ve taken to using +these+ to indicate action.
Me (*nodding sagely): “Me, too. I think its (kinda common) usage comes from stage play script writing.”
I still do
My BBS (yeah, we’re old) community used the _emphasis_.
Did we? [i][b]Did we, now?[/b][/i]
It used to be! But the prevalence of Discord brought back Markdown text edition.
Also I’d bet cash (!) we’ll get the polycule. I’m always right. It’ll just take between 7 days to 7 years depending on Relativity.
This is Comic Book Time; seven days and seven years might be the same thing!
Seven of our days or seven of theirs?
Yes.
Markdown is markdown text edition. Always has been. Which is kinda the point of it.
But I’ve two beefs with it. 1. John Gruber didn’t give us /italics/ using slashes. 2. And underscores were used for bold/italic, instead of actual underlines.
Yes, there is a rationale, and I know and understand it. But I’m still mad about it.
Seven years?! Arghlsleuglgbnfls. I can’t wait that long. My country won’t _last_ that long! :O
Underscores create italics in Markdown, so it’s much more recent! I’m used to underscores these days because I neber remember whether a single or double set of asterisks will bold text on Discord, and bold isn’t as easy for me to spot in messages.
Dorothy and Joyce not doing anything here, talking things out with Joe, and becoming a polycule is my ideal resolution to all this.
I don’t really think it’ll go that way, but that would be the ideal.
Willis is writing this, nothing will ever go that smoothly. ~<3
Truer words ain’t been written.
Shouting “Damn You Willis!!” used to be a thing for a reason.
I too, want the polycute – I mean, polycule! (Although a polycule at this stage *would be* polycute! ^^)
Joe and Joycy, and Dotty and Walky… aww, they’d all be so adorable together ^^
Off chance: Joe is actually relieved to not have the pressure of Joyce’s first time, and they can sort out the details later
makes sense
as usual, Uncle Iroh offers great wisdom ^^
When I was active in the Poly community polycules like this were common, the wives liked each other, the husbands may or may not have even liked each other, the wives got together maybe one or two weekends a month and then went back to their husbands rejuvenated and horny and the husbands enjoyed the extra attention. Everybody knew what was going on and nobody got hurt until the wives moved in together permanently and never did make the trip back to the hubbies. The wives got new jobs halfway between the hubbies and any kiddos so as not to take the kids away from their friends, and mommy visited as often as work would allow.
Good for the wives.
I think she would be very straight forward about because SOME BILLIE told her friends “don’t count”
SOME Billie once told me . . .
Dorothy is gonna roll me. ~<3
I ain’t the sharpest girl in this bed
This is why I wish I could upvote comments.
I said yep, what a concept,
I could use a little thrill myself,
And we could all use a little straaaaange…
You’re allowed to bang, like, once. That’s it.
Jennifer wasn’t talking about cheating. She was talking about being straight. Nothing in that conversation even hinted otherwise.
There’s a joke to be made about a homosexual encounter not being straight forward…
but I don’t think anyone would bi the punchline.
I think Mr. Willis is a very good writer with a wily mind.
And has a thing for for butts.
I was just back through old panels and realizing how much stuff was foreshadowed. This impending thing with Joe and Dorothy especially.
Personally I’m for the “Bros ’cause our girlfriends are dating” scene between Walky and Joe, but whatever.
I don’t imagine we will get that polycule.
For it to happen, Joyce and Walky would need to have a conversation akin to Dorothy and Joe’s and…I don’t see Walky being in any way as conciliatory. Especially if he definitely has grounds to yell the same ‘you get everything and do nothing’ at Joyce.
I think Joyce is the only character that has consistently never stopped trying to improve. She backslid, sometimes, but out of everyone Walky has the least right to say those words. His last eight arcs have been about how lazy and apathetic he is to anything important, and he’s still lazy and apathetic, though he’s trying a little harder now.
Walky is, at the core of his character, always gonna be a bit immature, so I think it is entirely possible he just thinks of two girls kissing and goes “Whoa that’s great, let me see next time.”
Really? Did Walky not try for the same comic strip that Joyce did only for her to end up winning out in the end? One of his rare moments of putting forth effort in fact.
Did he not realize the rough breaks Sal got from their childhood and try to make amends? After the fact certainly but realization hit.
Did he not confront his mom about her racism, even if his relationship with Lucy was toast and there was no one to witness?
Has he not been trying to pull his grades up, even if emotional turns (self-inflicted I grant you) have shaken that and he goes back to laziness because it’s what he knows?
I will grant that Walky is lazy and gets to the point a little late but he’s always been trying here little by little, and every arc he’s been a bit faster on the uptake to understand/turn.
Yes, Joyce should be commended for her want to improve but he’s put his own efforts forward. His problem is when things are too overwhelming for him, he goes to what gives him any degree of familiar comfort.
But hardly anyone commends him on it, in-comic. Which is fine, you shouldn’t have to expect anyone to give you an ‘attaboy’ for personal growth…But Joyce has a massive support system. Every step she makes in the right direction, there will be Sarah, Dorothy, Joe, Becky to applaud her.
Compare that to Billie and Sal who offhandedly said Walky’s trying his best…Before they make a joke in which Sal threatens Billie to never tell Walky she actually said that.
I appreciate most of your points, but I am asking people to please stop saying “lazy” about Walky’s very clear and common signs of struggling with unmedicated ADHD and the difficulties that entails. That’s not laziness, it is disability.
So the only reason i don’t pursue an ADHD diagnosis is that i don’t want medication for it, I sympathize with Walky’s executive dysfunction immensely.
But laziness exists in parallel to that, and both Walky and I are quite lazy.
I’m not gonna tell you how to self-describe, but I sure hope you mean lazy in a very non-pejorative way.
If you don’t, it might help you to check out this book: https://www.npr.org/2021/09/24/1039676445/laziness-does-not-exist-devon-price
Which isn’t even about us specifically (AD(H)D folks) but about humanity in general.
That is legitimate.
I do feel like that only adds here. Not playing misery poker but Dorothy notes that Joyce is on autism spectrum and that’s highlighted, but no one has considered in-comic if Walky may have a disability.
Sometimes I wish DOA had some sort of dialogue-based search function because I remember a certain line being said but maybe not exactly in which Chapter and every main character’s tag is so long by now it doesn’t cut search time by very long (even if you do ‘MainCharacter+OtherMainCharacter’) and it’s not like the titles of the strips are very intuitive…
But thankfully, the page where Dorothy and Walky talk about Walky probably having ADHD is called ‘ADHD”
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2024/comic/book-14/04-for-me-it-was-tuesday/adhd/
Booster also pointed it out.
Also, uh, if you’re including autism as a misery poker chip and not giving one to Dorothy, you will eventually have egg on your face.
Oh. Well I stand corrected.
Bonus: when Joyce was first struggling to see the whiteboard (on panel, it’s implied she struggled for a while), she asks Walky and Sal for their notes, and both of them tell her that they need to draw dinosaurs during the lecture to concentrate.
Coping mechanisms!!
I don’t want only to see this become NSFW. I want to this become canon.
And to think we were once worried that Joe would be the cheater..
Yes! Ha ha ha… YES!!!!
Joyce with that cheek caress though!
**melts**
As time moves even slower.
Joyce pulls
At the end of days, when Joyce has ascended and become the center around which all sexual life on the campus turns, and there is a “Complete DoA” box set (the deluxe edition will come in a steamer trunk), that box set will be titled “Joyce Pulls, Actually.”
I know, right? The purest of unfs mixed with the most refined of yes distilled into in a delectable cognac of oh god this is happening xD
It killed me and I thanked it. They’re suspended in time.
Dorothy leaned on it like she was pleading her not to let go.
Where’s that strip where Joyce asks if she’ll leave Dorothy a better person and Dorothy just begs her not to go instead of answering
YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES!
and not even just because I am a chaos gremlin who loves mess
although that is absolutely a part of it
we are eating well tonight
I’m in my “Sickos” era it seems. Can’t stop.
What a feast, holy shit
and then joe walks in
Dressed like Seto Kaiba, for some reason.
“IT’S TIME TO D-D-D” he calls and then there he is
Watching his gf kiss her gf in assless chaps, coat blowing in the wind
Dante, chaps are ”assless” by definition. It’s a weird thing to add to the word chaps.
Indeed, but it’s oft added to the description; probably to emphasize that there is little-to-nothing else on back there either.
Well something is going to happen. I dunno if it’s Joe walking in or not, but this is one heck of a build-up.
It’s gonna cut back to Sarah is what’s gonna happen. Gotta leave us waiting, ya know?
This is all happening in the space between songs on the app. to everyone else in the room it looks like Joyce’s hands are flying around Dorothy’s face.
There’s several bars of instrumental before the bridge in Only Exception. I’m betting we get the bridge tomorrow: “I know you’re leaving in the morning when you wake up / Leave me with some kind of proof it’s not a dream”
Or Joe walks in and we get Turn It Off: “before it gets any better, we’re heading for a cliff.”
I bet it won’t be Joe at all. There’s that Jocelyn shoe that’s waiting to drop…
Ohhhhhhh that’s true
I thought Becky. Joe would knock.
LET’S GOOOOOO
THE RAMIFICATIONS WILL BE HARSH AND PLENTIFUL BUT THEY WON’T BE HERE FOR AT LEAST FIVE MORE MINUTES, FULL SPEED AHEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!
oh this is exactly the mood friggin got it in one o7
Words can not express how disturbed by your avatar I am. Lol.
Thought you were better than this, Joyce
Honestly, so did I.
Nobody in the cast is good enough for Joe.
“Good enough for Joe.” Never thought we’d get there with Joe.
Her maneuvering with Jacob has been forgotten it seems. Someone being in a relationship has never stopped her before. Neither apparently is being in one herself. Especially since it doesn’t count if it’s only once.
I was thinking the same. Joe is going to be devastated if Joyce cheats on him.
He might be, or he might be relieved (or both). His perception of her relative innocence has been a big worry for him. If she has something to apologize for, it might make him feel less skeevy. If it’s something that he finds sexy and nonthreatening, he’ll be able to prove for himself whether he was just attracted to that perceived innocence.
You think that Joe, the guy who was traumatized by his father’s constant cheating to the point that his coping mechanism was only ever engaging in casual flings with no strings attached because he thought he was genetically predisposed to cheating would be… relieved that his GF would cheat on him?
Did Richard ever cheat on Joe’s mom? He was very prolific as a sex fiend but I don’t remember if he was ever unfaithful while married.
He did. Constantly. That’s the primary driving force behind Joe’s whole THING, where he engaged only in casual flings because he viewed cheating as inevitable and didn’t want anyone to get hurt by it. He’s been changing that view, but Joyce cheating on him has the potential to absolutely SHATTER him as it proves his old worldview right.
I, meanwhile, am impressed with Joyce’s “riz” (as the Youtubers say).
She is full-on seducing Dotty, and I am here for it.
Dotty is here for it too.
She’s been so confidently flirting today that I have $5 on Joe having told her that Dorothy likes her and telling her that if she wants to go for it he is OK with her being with both of them
That’s… actually not a bad theory.
It dovetails nicely with mine that Joe, terrified to hurt Joyce, would prefer she has her ‘first time’ with someone else to take the pressure off.
That would be a best scenario sort of plotline. That half of the commentariat are freaking out over nothing, there will be no cheating, and communication is established. (though in that case, it remains yet for joyce to tell dorothy.)
Joyce (grinning): “I touched a vagina.”
Joe (thumbs up): “Good job, buddy!”
Well except for Dorothy cheating on Walky, which I have a lot of trouble believing Joe with his strong feelings on cheating would sign off on.
And frankly, if Joyce has been deliberately flirting with Dorothy this whole time, knowing that Dorothy’s into her and knowing that Dorothy would think responding would be cheating, that’s pretty nasty of Joyce. Just tell her. Use your words.
God forbid women do anything.
I know, right?
Also, if I haven’t mentioned it prior, I am enjoying your new grav.
[ Molten Crater music intensifies ]
I think this has less to do with her being a woman, and more to do with this potentially leading to Joyce, and Dorothy, cheating on their boyfriends.
i feel like thats a strange take, taffy. its not whats being done that’s the problem, afaik to anybody here in the peanut gallery. its keeping word and deed consistent.
Joke
wait wdym
is it on using “peanut gallery” as a figure of speech? (I notice a lot of people who use it like this don’t seem to know it’s origins…)
“God forbid women do anything” is a meme phrase and should not be taken to directly reflect someone’s stance.
oh I see, thanks for clarifying
“Peanut Gallery” harkens from the prehistoric era of television, and a children’s show called “Howdy Doody”. Howdy was sometimes a marionette and sometimes a ventriloquist’s dummy, depending on the shot needed. I was born in 1958 and I can barely remember watching the show in 1962 when we got back from Canada.
Peanut Gallery predates television. It refers to the cheap seats at a theatre, where the audience munched on peanuts and might show their displeasure by throwing peanut shells at the stage.
Wow! You out “old fogey’d” Opus. You really are Adept.
I think specifically though it connotes racially segregated seating, though, no?
OK, found some references:
https://onmilwaukee.com/articles/black-history-month-peanut-gallery
https://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2015/03/origin-phrase-peanut-gallery/
https://theconversation.com/the-complicated-origin-of-the-expression-peanut-gallery-148897
@Laura I learned something new today. Thanks!
YW, cain!
God forbid Taffy say anything
I laughed, FWIW
+1!
yes, God forbid
And don’t you forget it lol
Seems like she’s pretty great at it actually
“Joyce pulls, actually”
Jennifer is not wrong
Hey! Some of us are drinking coffee in front of the keyboard.
Uh-oh, we’re veering from “Dorothy is a heartless monster for thinking she could get Joyce to cheat on Joe” to “Joyce has actually always been the monster”! Where will be a week from now?
Several members of the cast all spontaneously shedding their human costumes to reveal the anthropomorphic dinosaurs inside.
Dina is not one of them. Nor is Becky. It causes tension.
Oh NO.
Somehow Joe will the monster again. Or maybe Sal.
That’s Sal’s secret, she’s always the monster.
(For real I’m glad people have mostly stopped ragging on Sal. I know she was kinda a significant villain in the Walkyverse but wooooof.)
listen i know we’re all freaking out, but touching your friend’s face is not actually cheating. Even if she’s having some sudden realizations about something, Joyce hasn’t actually done anything wrong yet.
I think she SHOULD do something wrong, but she is still morally completely fine. For now. Hopefully not for very long.
It can be a tender and heart-felt gesture, followed by ”I love you Dorothy, thank you for being here for me” without any intention to have sex with her.
oh no oh no oh no oh no oh no not like this not like this
Joyce has already declared herself (her brain) a “fickle bongo.” So, yeah. This.
*incoherent screaming*
Sapphic yearning? In MY dumbing of age?! It’s ALWAYS likely~
Oh no! How terrible!
Euuurgghh
yuri knights assemble
Not like this
Not like this
Joyce won’t cheat. But I do think Dorothy is goons go for a kiss.
And if we cut away, I’m gonna go burn Willis’ house down.
… are you reading the same comic I am?
Cause it looks like JOYCE is going in for the kiss right now.
Maybe. Joyce has only moved her hand, not head. This could still just be Joyce’s way of recognizing that Dorothy likes her, but that they can’t go further.
Joyce has clearly reached for Dotty’s cheek, but also has moved her leg closer and onto Dotty’s other hand. Reads like she is initiating contact to me. Like I said, I won’t believe it is actually happening until it happens. But it sure as hell seems like it is about to.
I’m starting to think this is going to get interupted right before it would have happened if it hadn’t been for the interuption.
Joyce is a very physical person with her love language, especially with Dorothy. But her side of the relationship has always been platonic. It’s also pretty clear Dorothy is the one moving forward after the face touch.
… Oh, you def aren’t reading the same comic.
Joyce having touch as a love language? Yes. Platonic? I don’t know what else people need to stop using that word 8’DDD
Fucking or admissions of romantic affection mostly? Don’t see why it is that complicated. This is still within the realm of being possibly platonic with a lot of sus romantic feelings mixed in but like… Nah definitely have done this before platonically with a friend. Stayed platonic. Didn’t suddenly lead to kissing.
YellingBird: AND THEN THEY ALL admitted that they have feelings of romantic affection for each other
I’ve fucked friends platonically, and also romantically stared into the eyes of a friend I had a crush on without initiating anything nor changing a thing.
Our chaotic existences, though, are incidental to how in fiction the story and the way it’s being told matter. And everything from the setting (soundtrack included!), to things like Joyce’s little blush and the way she leans closer, and the bed’s palette mirroring her clothes is purposefully telling us “yeah this attraction is reciprocated.” They might not kiss either, and you’re def allowed to dislike a ship (these aren’t real people) — But the scene WAS put here to acknowledge the feelings are there. The rest is denial.
I agree, the meaning in this scene is 100% Joyce and Dorothy expressing their attraction.
What I’m not 100% sold on is if this is real or it’s Dorothy indulging in a dream/fantasy. And not for any “Joyce isn’t gay/bi” reasons. She absolutely can be, but her reaction here to those feelings seems really…off. She’s too calm, too ready to commit.
Genuinely and without any snark, how do you personally define platonic?
Because as far as I have experienced and as far as looking it up will get me, platonic almost universally means “intimate and affectionate but not sexual”, and saying that you have fucked friends platonically doesn’t really gel with that. I’ve had sex with friends casually and without romance involved, but I wouldn’t personally define that as platonic.
I’m also confused by ”platonic fucking”. Does not compute.
Idk if Dante identifies this way but aro folks have language for this.
Platonic sex is sex without any romantic attraction.
“Friends with benefits” is the only language the rest of us plebs have for it, which is really limiting both because the societal expectation is that FWB don’t last (someone “catches feels” eventually, or they “move on” to “deeper” relationships with other people); meanwhile, aro folks can have long-term queerplatonic partners with which there’s a serious commitment, a best friend you wanna spend the rest of your life with, but still no romantic feelings.
Meanwhile, on the ace side of things, there’s also sex without sexual attraction — for all the same uncomplicated reasons as masturbation, because it feels nice, because you’re a little horny, whatever. And sometimes also because you have a romantic partner (also ace or not) who you are totally down to have sex with sometimes.
Put these two together and you get extra platonic sex, with a friend you trust who’s also in the mood for sex, but with no romantic or sexual attraction.
Which is totally possible even if no one’s ace or aro, just as it’s possible for Joyce to be attracted to women generally but not to Becky — two or more reasonable, consenting adults can just agree to this sorta arrangement! — but the language from those communities is helpful.
I don’t know if any of that really tracks for me, personally, but I only came to accept that I’m Ace like two years ago so that could just be me being relatively new to that side of things.
Like TMI, but all sexual activity still needs to have at least some component of sexual attraction for me to even consider it. Otherwise it’s just fucking but as a favour or chore or expectation or something, and that’s historically not been great for me. Different strokes and outlooks for different folks though.
@Wereg
You’re fine! Also, “ace” is a big spectrum, and it goes all the way from people who are sex-repulsed (like Carla, handily enough) to people who are sex-positive (think it’s a fun activity to do regularly).
Mind you, I’m demi, sooooo. I’m in the gray area on the spectrum anyway. But I’ve definitely heard from other folks that they do consider it a favor no different from taking out the trash when asked, and that they feel fine about it.
No one should do anything they don’t wanna, though.
That is, or should be, a given.
But Jennifer said you can have platonic sex with your friends once (each) and it doesn’t count!
“Like once”. Which could mean as many as three times. Any more and it’s not close enough to one to be “like” once.
No, she said it doesn’t make you gay. Nothing about ”platonic sex” which is a pair of words that make no sense together.
Also nothing about it not counting as cheating. Just about it not counting in terms of being straight or not.
No? She very much said platonic.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/skills/
“[Alice and I are] just platonic friends, Joyce. Best friends can make out, like, a little bit and still be regular best friends. You’re allowed to bang, like, once.”
Now, mind you, she did not say it was fine while in a relationship with someone else, but she definitely said it stays platonic and doesn’t count, which could mean she’d actually be fine with doing it while she or Alice were also dating a boy.
I’m not defending either of these positions, but Jennifer definitely said the opposite of what you guys are saying she did.
Friends can be affectionate with each other, but usually it’s not after admitting possible sexual attraction.
(Whispers:) Go, Joyce! Go, Joyce!
Burning his house might be a little overly. I’ll merely let my dog shit on his yard.
I don’t actually have a dog.
BURN
By the Twelve, normality doth become mine sole and singular domain.
By Talos this can’t be happening
It isn’t a lot but it’s weird it has happened twice
This is some G’raha and WoL stuff right here.
G’raha is my very cool and supportive friend who enjoys my company a normal amount.
THE TORTURE. IT BURNS SO GOOD.
I’m a VERY big fan of Dorothy’s face here. Very good “melting with happiness” face.
I have mixed feelings about this. Like, there’s a lot of sweetness and cuteness here, but also, you both have boyfriends, so uhhh.
I think cheating is cool
Me when I activate my GameShark codes.
I feel like Crow is trolling, but honestly if all the accusations of folks being supporters of real-life cheating have gotten to them and now they’re defiantly saying “yeah actually cheating is awesome”, I understand.
I don’t have mixed feelings. Joe is dead to me. Walky, dead. Everyone else in the cast, dead, dead, dead. I’ve been shipping these two for years. If this happens, heaven betide.
Pardon. “If this happen.” While I live, the subjunctive lives.
Mutual cheating is not exactly an auspicious start to a long-term relationship
And yet, it happens.
Usually not with relationships that are gonna go the distance
What about any of this comic has been usual?
Usually relationships you start at 18 aren’t going to go the distance anyway.
Omg, Dotty’s eyes. In the 4th panel, mainly.
That blush, the lip bites, the way they’re inching closer, I fucking love this. It’s so cute!!!
I’m just distracted by how Joyce’s outfit matches her bedding.
It’s gonna be a problem later. How can Joe fuck what he cannot find?
He goes to touch her chest, but he misses and gets the bed. Luckily, this can be solved by Joyce taking her shirt off.
[David Attenborough voice] “The larger male in this case finds himself confused by the natural camouflage of his would-be sweatervestia protagera mate – an evolutionary change seemingly developed to make reproduction more difficult, and in doing so, weed out potential lesser mates. Will he be able to work it out?”
*Joe accidentally humping a pillow while Joyce sneaks off with Dorothy*
Alas, it seems this time, he’s not so lucky.
… Her outfit matches the bedding. It’s like Dorothy’s surrounded by Joyce all over, wrapped in her embrace.
Gotta love the palette here ougggh ;ww;
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHH
or alternatively
These made me smile. Thank you. Also, I like your Dina avatar picture. It’s pretty rad.
Just touching bestie’s cheek. Nothing to see here.
Can’t decide if Dorothy’s hand is a ‘oh let me guide you’ or a ‘now hold on there pardner.’
That doesn’t look like the face of resistance to me.
Could change any second, but I don’t think she’s slowing anything down just yet.
Horrible thought: Dorothy confesses her love, and Joyce says, “This is a one-time thing.”
Aaaaaaaaaand… cue Dotty removing Joyce’s hand from her cheek in tomorrow’s strip? I still don’t know if I believe it will happen until it actually does, and there is a non-zero chance they go no further than this. The tension in this is incredible, regardless of how it turns out.
I’m assuming the next strip is a cut to another story arc lol.
Unrelated: Hello, gravname neighbor!
Looks like the song changed on the playlist at the last panel. What if it changed to something like Misery Business and the tonal shift completely jolts Joyce and causes her to freak herself out of the moment.
Panel 4 Dorothy eyes!
And panel 4 and 5 both blushing!
We need to issue snap elections, dissolve the current House of Comments, and come back in three weeks. It’s the only way to prevent the upcoming infighting.
My campaign strategy is that I will make everything worse and make everyone suffer for no reason. That seems to be the direction politics go nowadays.
I will be running as Numbers Fuckstein as usual.
But the warring could lead to the Commentariat or the Ohmigodarchy.
I think there are a few ohmigodarchies
So far, this is the most accurate and sensible comment I’ve seen.
OH MY GOD IT’S FUCKING HAPPENING. THERE IS GOING TO BE A SCHISM IN THIS FRIEND GROUP TO RIVAL THOSE WITHIN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.
Ah, disaster. Something had to give.
I was so certain this was going to be a fake out. There’s still like a 30% chance, I guess, but it seems to actually be going there. Gonna blow up a lot of relationships all at once. Possibly even relationships not involved here, can you IMAGINE what Becky’s reaction is gonna be?
I’m curious how this could be seen to Becky. I don’t think she deserves the kind of entitlement she has with Joyce. Just because Joyce rejected her means Joyce can never like women? Her reaction will be very interesting to see and discuss.
I don’t think it’s so much entitlement as it is that Becky will be sad because they both thought Joyce was rejecting her because she’s straight. It hurt but well, there was never any real chance for them.
Now she’s gonna know that there was, in fact, potential for Joyce to return that attraction and it’s NOT “Joyce doesn’t like girls”. It’s “Joyce doesn’t like YOU.” That’s a whole different layer of hurt. Which does not mean she was entitled to have Joyce return that affection or that Joyce is doing anything wrong, it’s just a sucky situation to be in. People like Becky so they feel bad she’s gonna be in that situation.
Becky is also still dealing with ideation about her mom. This is going to really crush her.
I personally think Becky has moved on. She really loves Dina and is horny for her in a way that somehow makes her question her own sexuality. So it will be very interesting if she gets hurt emotionally by Joyce and Dorothy. Maybe she hadn’t moved on. Maybe she and Dina need to talk more about her connection to Joyce? Maybe Becky even needs to reevaluate what her love for Joyce even really meant.
Honestly? The way Becky’s been acting recently, she’s about as likely to think “Oh no, how is this gonna affect my chances with Dina???” as she is to get jealous or something. She’s been getting VERY self conscious about the various ways in which she might lose Dina, to the point where even if Joyce walked up to her and took her clothes off, I don’t think Becky would ever take that risk.
Maybe we have different definitions of moved on, but I think it can still hurt to learn that, as opposed to never having a chance, it was actually just they don’t like you, even if you wouldn’t pursue them now.
Right? I don’t think it’s entitlement, I think Joyce going from “I know I’m not a lesbian because if I were I’d be a lesbian for Becky,” to “Oops, guess I miscalculated,” has got to sting Becky at least a little, even if she is in love with Dina.
Screaming internally. Without end.
OH NO
As people have said, this will break the strip.
And in ways *a character dying* could not.
(to be clear, I’m grabbing my popcorn)
SCREAMING INTERNALLY
I am screaming EXTERNALLY because I am not a coward.
I’m screaming internally because there are people that are trying to sleep in this house.
yeah, it’s like, 6AM here
I can’t take this. I can’t. I’ve been yelling nonstop and fffffffffff
THIS IS TOO ROMANTIC. HELP. HELP I GOT DIZZY OH MY GOD AND THE SONG HAS BEEN PLAYING IN MY BRAIN NONSTOP. LOOK AT THIS. I’LL MELT.
STIMMING SO MUCH AAAAAAAAAAH
USE THE FORCE
(*smokes joint and becomes Yoda gif*)
There is some part of me that is curious if Willis planned his Kickstarter to be ending right when this drama bomb would be attracting eyes.
This is the webcomic equivalent of sweeps.
Killer gravatar for your username.
I’m impressed someone else remembers sweeps.
Here’s hoping for a *slowly turning the dial until it hits right before cheating & stopping with full friction* & not *& THEN THEY SMOOCHED*
The Joe date seems imminent specifically to derail from this exact line. Betting my chips on it.
What a sweet moment that won’t have any negative repercussions in the future whatsoever
Oh he’s gonna cut away to another storyline tomorrow the comments are going to BURN
Aaaaaand Dorothy wakes up.
That’d be pretty boring. I’d need it to at least be Joyce waking up. Or Joe.
Gotta be Becky. This is totally her worst nightmare, no?
End of storyline.
Cut to Joyce, Dorothy and Joe all waking up in bed. No explanation.
I was split between replying “like Neo” and “going ‘it was all a dream’ is the mother of storyline cop-outs”. Have both :’DD
So, I was thinking its yesterday, but today? I am convinced — Dorothy is definitely dreaming this.
Like I think Willis “No teal or purple”.
Considering how much time has been spent developing Joyce’s relationship with Joe, ESPECIALLY regarding him being a better man for her sake, to have HER cheat on him would be devastating..
I feel like karmically maybe Joe had this coming. Being cheated on would be the hard reset that could forgive everything he used to be. Now he would deserve the apology donut.
That’s a really spiteful attitude that I really hope you only hold towards fictional characters, because acting like people trying to change themselves for the better deserve to suffer is genuinely kinda messed up.
Joe doesn’t deserve to suffer. He also is the guy who told girls they should kiss whenever they argued. So it’s almost perfect irony that the recovery Mr. Misogyny, that ranked women, would have his first girlfriend cheat on him with a women. That’s genuinely great storytelling. Sorry for noticing.
I like Joe too and won’t fault anyone who doesn’t enjoy him potentially being cheated on or hurt by Joyce. But he also wanted to break her in and fix her with his penis when he first met her.
NO? Are you fucking insane?
Joe was a mysoginistic slut but he never cheated on anyone or did anything to betray his partners trust
This is so over the top that I’m half-convinced it’s a joke.
For peace of mind I decided it fell flat the moment I read the #Adjective
“I will take this character being a misogynistic asshole to practically all women in stride, but I draw the line at cheating!”
Really?
So, I don’t think Joyce should cheat on Joe or that’d be an ok thing to do, but to argue that that would instantly be beyond the pale where Joe’s previous behaviour wasn’t is wild to me.
What has Joe actually done besides make a childish list and act like a dude bro? We’ve made the point he wasn’t a cheater, we’ve made the point he never lied to his sexual partners. At worst, he called Dottie a lesbian and watched american pie too much.
At worst he harassed a girl for not being into him by repeatedly calling her a lesbian.
I mean, that still feels bad enough to warrant some plotline karma.
Literally Joes only crime is being a bit gross to women.
Which he did as a trauma response to his shitty father.
Being gross to women, even just “a bit” is still pretty damn bad. And he issues with his dad very much doesn’t excuse it.
misogyny isn’t okay when its because of trauma though. Like whether he meant to or not, this dude has made multiple women on campus feel unsafe. Like Incellerator levels of unsafe. Just because he’s trying to be better now doesn’t erase the year of misogynist harassment he gave literally everything with a vagina up until like a week or two ago in-universe.
Wow. Joe has really come a long way to have defenders like this. Are we totally forgiving early Joe now? Willis has really done a great job repairing his reputation.
Just to be clear Joe put Dorothy on his do-list as soon as she broke up with Danny. His best friend. https://www.dumbingofage.com/2010/comic/book-1/01-move-in-day/prediction/
A do list we recently found out people like Carla and Jocelyne didn’t even qualify to be on.
He also literally said this: https://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-1/03-men-are-from-beck-women-are-from-clark/penis/
This was just his character for years. https://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-1/06-yesterday-was-thursday/continue/
No, Joe doesn’t deserve to be cheated on, but saying he was just a dude bro with a silly list that watched too much American Pie isn’t a fair assessment of who he was. Joyce and Rachel have both told his list was like a cheat sheet for predators.
I like Joe now too. This is devastating for him. It also makes total sense in his character arc.
+500
I honestly do not think being cheated on would break Joe in half or turn him into The Joker. He and Joyce have also only been dating for a couple of weeks in-universe — it’s not like they’re married with kids.
I also don’t think Joyce is actually going to go further than this. I think she’ll at most lean in, caught up in the moment and having forgotten everything outside this room, only for Joe to knock and bring them both back to reality with new realizations but no crimes committed.
Though I will admit, having dug up links yesterday, that it’s pooooossible the writing specifically set Joe up for this fall when it had him dismiss Joyce’s near-cheating escapade with Jacob as “hilarious” and “classic sitcom hijinx”. Jacob told him it was different from inside the situation, and he might be about to discover that he agrees when it’s him.
I get what you’re saying about how it would be good storytelling, and I agree!
Also, indeed, how did we get to “Joe did nothing wrong”?
I’ve been enjoying Joe’s character development and his low-drama relationship with Joyce very much, and I’d like to see that continue. So I very much hope they don’t actually do anything.
But to pretend that that would be the worst ever while Joe is this innocent birthday boy sickens me, tbh. We just had Dorothy tell us how he bullied her in high school for not being feminine enough!
I think the things Joe did in the past sucked: he hurt people, and that past shouldn’t be ignored. That said, for me the idea of a “karmic moment” for Joe doesn’t feel like good storytelling, it feels like a trope.
As a recovered “raised super religious” person myself (like Joyce), I had to undo toxic beliefs that if I had been “bad”, then I deserved a cosmic punishment. To me, it’s so much more powerful to see transformation from love. Joyce forgives people, and does so with agency and clear eyes, and that act of faith transformed Joe. So I’d be disappointed to see whatever comes framed as karmic comeuppance, myself.
Disclaimer: the above doesn’t apply for shamelessly malicious villains who refuse to stop doing evil tho. I LOVE karmic comeuppance for them.
Or to put it in more succinctly in Willis’s words:
Despite that sign on the highway, hell isn’t real.
Honestly, I… I mean, I can’t actually speak for Sirksome, but I suspect the use of the word ‘karmic’ is confusing some folks. Sirksome has definitely said a few times that it’s not actually that Joe deserves to be cheated on. I think what they mean is that narratively, it rhymes? It was kind of set up?
He hasn’t come a long way to have defenders like this. The defenders have always been there.
Joe’s gotten a whole redemption arc and people argued all along that he never did anything that bad.
So is pursuing sex with people one considers attractive a character flaw? Is that somehow a bad use of a person’s time?
Not being attracted to Carla (or deciding not to pursue her for other reasons) doesn’t make Joe transphobic either. We can’t really decide to be sexually attracted to somebody. Having a list of people he wanted to bang was weird, but it doesn’t make past Joe a predator.
It wasn’t a list just of people he wanted to bang. It was a list of all women, some of them rated very low. If he simply didn’t want to bang Carla, she would have been on the list with a 0. But she wasn’t on the list and so presumably, he didn’t see her as a woman.
This is Word of God, and also just canon to the strip.
Joe’s list was something he shared with other people at the drop of a hat.
They were not his personal private opinions, they were a GUIDE FOR OTHER DUDES to help them find “bangable” women, with ratings reflecting how easy they were to sleep with and whether it was worth the effort, and there were grandmas on that list.
Not including Carla was transphobic, full-stop.
Also: jfc is the list ever not the be-all end-all of Joe’s need for a redemption arc, it was just the obvious manifestation, yet somehow it’s become “what did he ever do wrong, is a man not allowed to be attracted to women”.
Honestly, these people make me want to say Joe in particular is no longer allowed to be attracted to women.
I still think Joe wasn’t allowed to be bad enough. We needed to see more from him in his bad phase. Trying his game on someone who wasn’t willing to tell him to fuck off, maybe. Or someone he’d talked into bed and he thought was fine with it, but actually regretted it, thinking she’d been played.
Willis tried to walk the line between ethical slut and actual problem and didn’t really pull it off, imo.
Or maybe there was no way to do so and anything bad enough to convince more people would have led to him being seen as irredeemable.
@BBCC: I ugly-laughed.
@thejeff: Honestly, I think it’s probably a mix of things? We all grow and change over time, and I would beeeet that some of the things 2010 Joe said are things Willis thought were at least reasonably okay at the time but has since realized Were Not, and that they want to address that within the comic. Not entirely unlike how in, like, 2010, one of our likable main characters said the r-word, and then later on Willis had Raidah specifically lampshade how not-okay it was to say that. (Sometimes, we grow and change very quickly.)
So, take a dash of “Joe wasn’t supposed to be quite as bad in 2010 as he is by most of our standards in 2025”.
Then add “the kind of thing you’re suggesting it would’ve been helpful to see, probably would’ve been mighty uncomfortable to write/draw, as well as potentially triggering to read”. It’s kind of like saying, “Ryan would be a bigger, more believable threat if we’d seen him have a successful night.” That’s not untrue, but also, Ryan getting thwarted by Joyce’s glass of justice and then beaten up by Sarah probably really helped Willis get through that storyline. To say nothing of the rest of us reading it.
And finally………
I don’t actually think Joe should need to be worse on-panel…? That seems, to me, to be very similar to arguing that Linda needs to be worse on-panel.
There are racists who are more blatant than Linda, and there are misogynists who are more blatant than Old Joe, but there are also plenty of people exactly as bad as them, and those people, too, should be portrayed in media exactly as they are, in a space that isn’t afraid to say, “Yo, this shit sucks, too.”
Early Joe’s endless casual misogyny and the way he talked specifically about Joyce behind her back while plotting to “fix” her with his penis are, actually, bad enough to condemn.
Joe:
– was misogynistic (example: suggesting fucking Joyce would upgrade her, rating women with numbers, every word out of his mouth for literally years)
– was shitty to women who said “no” to him (example: called Dorothy a lesbian repeatedly as if saying ‘no’ to him somehow meant she wasn’t attracted to men at all)
– was shitty to men who said “no” at all (example: his conversation with Danny where he pressures him to bang a chick despite Danny not wanting to)
– was/is currently transphobic (example: he left Carla off the list, take this one up with Willis because they were VERY clear what that meant, Joe also had a weird answer for why he was kind to Joyce’s newly out trans sister)
– constantly made the women in his life deal with his trauma by inflicting it on them in the form of misogyny, women are not his therapists or his dumping ground (example: *gestures generally at all of the things about him*)
– Talked about getting women drunk to have a threesome, which is a horrible thing to claim even if you don’t actually go through with it.
Present-Day-Joe has a lot to answer for, still. He is not just guilty of “pursuing sex with people [he] considers attractive” and I’m just so bored of that narrative. Yes he’s made strides to be better, yes he’s got a gooey little soft-boi center that I have enjoyed watching come out, but he isn’t some blameless innocent man who has fallen guilty of the myth that “you just can’t say anything these days”.
I think this might be my longest comment I’ve ever made, but I wanted to lay it out clearly here.
— constantly made the women in his life deal with his trauma by inflicting it on them in the form of misogyny, women are not his therapists or his dumping ground
I just wanna underline this part in specific, because it is getting tiresome how many folks keep saying “he was dealing with trauma from his cheating dad”. Yes… dealing with it by lashing out at women. His intents here aren’t nothing, they do matter, but they do not fully mitigate the damage he did while “dealing with” his trauma.
And by the way, Joe’s dad is probably not even in the top ten worst parents in this comic, everything we’ve seen of him since he and Amber’s mom started hooking up has been very positive, and before that he was portrayed pretty consistently as a carbon copy of Joe in terms of how he treated women.
That Joe never cheated on anyone because he’s never been in a relationship before doesn’t make him nothing like his dad, and while I agree that you could probably use the word trauma to describe Joe’s anxiety that, if he ever did try to date anyone, he’d turn out to be exactly like his dad… like. Barring some huge reveals in the future, I do not think Joe is as damaged on this topic as some folks are suggesting.
– Talked about getting women drunk to have a threesome, which is a horrible thing to claim even if you don’t actually go through with it.
Aw jeez, there’s one I’d forgotten. And we didn’t know he hadn’t gone through with it for years.
Im defending him by saying him being a gross person doesn’t mean he should be cheated on?
You’re right.
uh the childish list was really bad. like no one in the strip ever did, but if I found out i was on some dude i never met’s tiermaker for hotties, I’d rip all his skin off with a fork, the list is REALLY bad.
I hard disagree. If Joe was a serial cheater, I’d say it’s karma. But that’s one line that he never crossed. Like don’t get me wrong, he used to be an asshole in the ways you’ve pointed out, but 1) people don’t “deserve” being cheated on, and 2) it especially wouldn’t be karma since he never cheated. It doesn’t suddenly become more okay because it’s with a woman, jfc
Here’s a question then. Did any of the women that were around Joe deserve the way he treated them? Harassed, objectified on a do-list, ect? Dorothy and Joyce specifically dealing with more than their fare share of him.
And if you believe in karma it doesn’t necessarily work one to one. You stab me in the hand you deserve to be stabbed in the hand later. It’s more like you stab me in the hand and later in life I’m better at speed running than you because of it.
So yeah. The girl you called a lesbian is now on the verge of making out with your girlfriend who you once said you wanted to make out with other women.
Plus, Walky spent real-world years teasing Joyce for being into Dorothy, sooooo in terms of karmic irony…………..
No, they didn’t deserve it, but the idea that “deserving it” somehow works as an ethical justification is pretty fucked up in my view.
I never said it was ethical. Pretty much everyone agrees this is a bad move.
I actually haven’t seen anyone saying this is more okay just because it’s with another woman, but maybe that comment got removed
“You’re excusing this because it’s gay” has been a constant refrain and I don’t know why.
Sirksome, what the hey? Joe specifically has not cheated on anyone. What he did was pursue his libido openly and honestly. He has been immature and single minded for sure, but he was always straight forward and honest.
He 100% does not deserve that karmic punishment.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/follow/
https://www.dumbingofage.com/clipboard/
https://www.dumbingofage.com/corrupt/
Behold, straightforward and honest communication! Definitely not Joe knowing Joyce was super religious and wanted to wait until marriage, presenting himself as a romantic gentleman who wanted to date her, and privately plotting to “upgrade” and “fix” her with his dick.
A fourth link would send this to moderation but dumbingofage[.]com/penis will feature him telling Sarah that specifically, by the way. “Geez, you act like I’m gonna rape her or something. […] Like you said, she’s inexperienced, she’s that ‘naif’ thing. […] Not breaking her, fixing her. With my penis.”
I don’t think any of this means he deserves to be cheated on, but good grief the rose colored glasses about Joe.
Or you might be projecting on to the character more than is said and illustrated in the strip. Anyway, I’m done with this. Your intensity is rather a lot in this.
Uh-huh. Sorry about, like, having and providing receipts.
So deserved… there hasn’t been enough time passed for him to have waited out the statute of limitations. The default minimum is five years. Comeuppance thy name is I kissed a girl and I liked it, hope my boyfriend don’t mind it.
Man, Willis is giving this moment the time it needs. …wait, hold on. How many strips is this moment going to last!? WAIT! Is this moment going to last a whole year’s worth of comics!? Is this why Willis has been able to get a year ahead in his buffer!? GODDAMMIT, WILLIS!!!!!
(Also, please, Joyce, let this be the moment that you realize you’re into Dorothy, but then step away. DON’T CHEAT ON JOE!!!! Take a moment to decide what you want. If you want Dorothy, break up with Joe. If you want Joe, then tell Dorothy that you’re flattered but that you’ve made your decision. If you want them both, see if they’d both be into that! I have a feeling they absolutely would be! You can have everything you want without hurting anybody! Dorothy’s in a chaotic burning everything down place, you can follow her lead on the sexiness without following her on the burning things down! You can do this without hurting anyone!
) for the characters’ sake I agree about stepping away, and I could see either one deciding to step away from the edge.
For the story’s sake, I think they can survive this and it’s college. Live fast, break things. Perfection is no fun.
Perfection is boring. Unless it’s gymnastics. Also, “fickle bongo.”
Eagle eyed observers will note that Joyce also shifted her leg closer to Dotty.
Okay, that will put my vote in 4, at least
oh dear, I do believe that the mood has reached a boiling point.
I wonder if, by the time I’m back from work in about 8 hours, will the comment section be closed? Will Willis be armed with a spear, shouting “STAY BACK YOU ANIMALS! BACK!” keeping them away from the “post comment” button?
Is that 3 days left for the kickstarter or 3 days until they do it?
This kills the lesbian… I hate cheating/”almost”-cheating plots so bad. Especially with couples I’ve been rooting for over decades. Blech
This entertains this lesbian!
Happy for you! Just sad for me. Joejoyce have been my comfort ship since I was a wee thing many many eons ago
I’m sorry… This strip must be pretty painful for you
I hope that we wind up in a place where Joyce can have two hands.
Dang can’t believe this is the exact moment COVID 19 is going to be introduced into Dumbing of Age
turns out covid is actually caused by true love.
THEY’RE SO CUTE OH MY GOD…
Turn head, kiss hand, move past hand, embrace, nuzzle, whisper in ear “no joyce, not yet, it’s not our time”.
Or just fing go for it, it’s College, it’s not like they are married to those boys yet.
Okay, sound off – y’all still alive? XD
I’ll need the next 6-8 weeks to recover, and if Willis cuts away from this it’ll take me 3-6 months.
No, I died.
fume CUATRO porros!!! XD
(stoned I am)
Y mañana? Serán cinco.
I’m currently just finding it all so sweet
I think if the kiss actually happens that’s when I’ll break
I’m not, sldkgjsd it’s been a long time since a ship made me feel butterflies this hard.
They have me in a chokehold, and I know there’ll be #Consequences for characters I like, but right now I can only focus on how goddamn romantic it is.
Reports of my death have been exaggerated but like not by all that much.
This turned me into a newt.
I hope you get better soon
Yep, wholly unmoved and just reading what happens next…
Yeah, sure, no prob. What’s the big deal? Why everyone freaking out? Gals shall pals. No biggie.
Alive and loving it!
I love how the comment section is PERFECTLY SPLIT between rooting this on and unmitigated despair.
I’m more… happy for the people who like it, love that feeling when it happens with ships I’m invested in, but here I’m not that into the ship, so I’m not getting that; but also, not despairing, think it will be interesting, especially on the reread.
^ You, you understand me. With a tiny little pinch of ‘Oh, BOO’ because the ships I am invested in are the ones getting hosed here. XD
I mean, I get it. My brain is perfectly split between rooting this on and unmitigated despair. My shipping is quantum.
I’m still on the fence about Joyce, half expecting this to turn out, “I love you dearly and wish I were horny for women so I could just date you. Wouldn’t it be so much easier?”
And then Dorothy finally implodes to the point that she becomes a cold fusion reactor.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Joyce and Joe already talked about this off screen to some degree when the whole tittypicture came up. If they decided amongst themselves that if Dorothy was down, they’d be fine, and it could be a threesome type deal.
And then, because this is dumbing of age, forgot to factor in how it would impact everyone around the trio, like Walky and Becky.
… Oh, this would be fun. We don’t see every single waking moment of these characters, I def think it can be pulled off. How long did we spent without knowing what had happened in Halloween, for example?
Yeah, I’m into it OwO!
I didn’t think about this, but man would that be nice. Then it’s not cheating if Joe already knows to expect something like this.
I could buy two twosomes, but I can’t see Dotty going for a threesome with Joe. Feel like that’s a relevant distinction.
your brain is massive and you should feel great about it
I would hate that. I mean, it gets to a place that I’d like, but it makes all the tension from these last strips fake. It means Joyce has just been deliberately toying with Dorothy here.
Deliberately toying, or just testing the waters?
If she’s talked to Joe and knows Dorothy’s into her and is “testing the waters” seductively, while Dorothy is desperately holding back because it’s morally wrong to cheat however tempted she is, then I think “toying” is appropriate.
What “testing” does she have to do?
Based on my memories of my college years, almost all relationships were either romantic then messy, messy, or messy chaotic. Whoever heard of college students being mature communicators about conflicting attractions? Nobody! Ugh. This is giving me unpleasant flashbacks.
I’m sure the comments won’t be a cesspit of moral grandstanding and pouting about ships today so I’ll just say that I maintain the end state of the comic is Joyce and Dorothy walking arm-in-arm into the sunset, so something is going to put the brakes on this and stuff it back into the closet.
It’s also a very lovely and touching strip. Good job Willis!
I almost looked at the next strip but just the preview was enough to answer that question so… I’ll wait.
I think you misunderstand what was meant by “end state of the comic”. Shakes is saying “I think Joyce/Dorothy will be the ultimate endgame ship, and them getting together will be the final scene of the comic strip, not unlike Korra/Asami, so Willis is gonna prevent them from getting together now because the endgame is a long ways off”.
No, this is DoA. They can get together, break up, and get together again.
Demonstrably. (Looking at Joe/Joyce and Dorothy/Walky, though one of those ships is definitely doing better on its second jaunt.)
Going full out Penny and Angie eh? would be interesting.
Based on her track record with men, I wonder how much of her dysfunction was forcing herself into a heterosexual mould? Danny felt obligatory, Walky is, let’s face it, a rebound for both of them.
Also, she had some major tension with Billie when they yelled at each other in the halls, and that’s enough for me to be an armchair psychosexual therapist. :V
+1 on the Billie thing. They had several interactions that left me like “HMMM and how does that make you feel”
Thanks, Morhek. I never thought of that.
She seemed pretty happy with Walky the first go-around. She’s failed to recapture that spark now that they’re together again, but they definitely used to have it
I wouldn’t call Walky & Dorothy 1.0 a rebound for either of them. For Walky it was as far as we know his first crush, and for Dorothy it seemed to be a genuine connection that grew both slowly and also suddenly from Walky’s goofy charm. It was Walky because it was Walky, not because it was someone who wasn’t Danny.
Now Walky & Dorothy 2.0 is 100% a rebound for Walky. I’m not exactly sure what to call it for Dorothy. Part C of her panic spiral? And I think we’re up to F or G now?
No way this is happening next strip.
You’re right. It will be another pacing strip of them slowly moving their faces closer without actually kissing. Because Willis likes torturing us.
I’m DYING here
Chat, avenge my death
If I manage to stay alive, I swear I will
Zeno’s paradox of smooching.
No, yeah, that actually tracks.
If they didn’t kiss today, no, they won’t kiss tomorrow
Sapphic, or just Joyce being bad with social signals? Tune in tomorrow, same bat time, same bat channel
I think the adorable blush lines make Joyce’s intention clear.
If this actually happens Joe is gonna backslide so fucking hard. He’s trying so goddamn hard to improve himself for her and she does this? Just… it’s going to fuck him up. We’re talking the kind of thing that could very easily send his character development screaming off a cliff in the opposite direction.
Basically, if these two do go through with it Joe is going to need some serious emotional support to not backslide and turn into an utter bastard. Our only hope will likely be Dina. Which is… actually a rather comforting thought.
When Becky backslides and crashes out because Joyce is “Gay but not gay for her” (Because ten to one the idea of bisexuality will make her head pop like scanners due to her trauma, not because she’s a bad person) Dina and Joe will make a solid “Sex isn’t worth the hassle, lets make nachos” dynamic duo.
Man, you people have absolutely no faith in the personal growth of these characters.
Maybe, just maybe, Joe will actually take what he learned from his relationship with Joyce and move forward with it. Maybe Becky has grown as a person. (Or more likely she already kinda knew this was coming and was just waiting for it.)
But Becky does know about Bisexuality and is chill with it, it might not be if it turns out Joyce is but that is beside the point.
…. holy shit you’re right.
The rest of this is fine, but Dina absolutely finds sex to be worth the hassle. That asexual woman Fucks™.
See this is interesting. “He’s trying so goddamn hard to improve himself for her and she does this?”
Exploring if he can actually keep up the growth without Joyce as a motivator would be a cool arc. Growth for his own sake. For what it’s worth I think the answer is yes, but the most fun is in asking “how”
I think the answer could be ‘eventually’ but when it’s raw and he’s just been punched hard in his ‘issues’ button? I wouldn’t be surprised if he backslid for a bit. And for us ‘a bit’ could be quite a while.
I dunno. I think he’s already had one Joyce-induced backslide and that a second one probably wouldn’t be as interesting for Willis.
Just my guess, tho.
I think Joe will quit attending classes because he’ll be busy masturbating his brains out.
I mean, Joe’s character development isn’t Joyce’s responsibility. If he starts being an asshole again because she cheated that’s his decision.
That’s true, but hurting him by cheating is her responsibility.
To be a devious little shit for a moment, the way you phrased this leaves it just open enough to say “You’re right. Joyce has a responsibility to hurt Joe as much as she can, and cheating on him is the perfect way to do that!”
No Rich Mullins is playing in Joyce’s head, actually…
Acknowledgement of bisexual chemistry via light physical contact.
So like, I don’t think this is going to lead to Joyce cheating on Joe and drawing the eternal rage of some people in the comments. Or immediate poly threesomes, unless they all resolve a lot of stuff very quickly, fun though that option would be.
And idk how much of this is reading too much into it/wishful thinking but it feels like Joyce expressing ‘yeah, there’s something here, and it’s not causing me to panic or feel betrayed or taken advantage of, this is nice’. It might not go the way Dorothy wants, necessarily, but it doesn’t feel like everything is going to explode suddenly either.
I hope you’re right
This is about where I’m feeling with it too
i mean, not that it’s right, but at most it’d be just a kiss versus anything further. althoug hi imagine what happened with the washing machine most bfs might consider cheating too (if they were ‘officially’ dating then)
I don’t think they were dating back then, no.
As far as cheating, I feel like the line of what most people here consider cheating would be a lot farther back on this line if it involved their chosen partners (provided they had a monogamous agreement, or at the least a “polyamorous but with open discussion” sort of thing.) As many people say “none of this is cheating yet” every single day, I cannot imagine that every single one of them would be okay if it were someone that claimed to be committed or at least honest to them.
No, they weren’t.
I’m hoping that maybe the conversation about sex can be a way for them to admit their feelings about each other and break up with their partners before it goes any further.
Oh fuck oh god oh fuck I have loved this ship and wanted it to set sail for years but not like this, NOT LIKE THIIIIIS
well there’s more nuanced to it but kinda sucky that there’s already a ‘cheating bisexual’ stereotype/misconception XP
but i imagine other than the heat of the moment and tnot talking about it again i imagine they’ll all talk about it in a group if not at least with joe even if walkys not included
Like I said yesterday, this is the two of them recognizing their attraction together. Joyce is blushing too. I don’t think they will kiss. This is literally happening in the course of… seconds.
Anyone up for a game?
Referring back to Walky’s comment that the “smoochy chart is an ourobouros ring,” or words to that effect, would anyone care to help graph the current, past, and tantalizingly hinted at smoochy chart?
E.G.
Joe – 🪢- Roz
– Liz
– Jacob
– Raidah
– Walky
– Amber
🪢
🪢 – Dorothy
Joe – 🪢- Malaya
Joe –
Joe – 🥰 – Joyce
Joyce – 🥰 – Ethan
Joyce –
Jacob – 🥰
Jacob – 🪢 – Lucy
Lucy – 🥰
Walky –
Walky – 🪢
AND SO ON…
Anyone else? Any other tentacles and tendrils to add to this burgeoning web in full spin?
Oh I can help with this! I made a chart when I was first reading through, it might be a bit out of date (and messy) though.
https://www.canva.com/design/DAFs8oiusho/b_r1wFN8WjrGMfbw9O9S7Q/view?utm_content=DAFs8oiusho&utm_campaign=designshare&utm_medium=link2&utm_source=uniquelinks&utlId=h0374d0035f
*Daaaaaaaaaaaaang!*
Whoa, that is some SERIOUS structuring! Hat is ALL the way OFF to you!
I like how Amber and Amazi-Girl are “roommates”.
Oh my GOD THEY WERE- wait…
Eh, it never stopped the Kingdom Hearts Fandom
And they only have one bed.
Love the inclusion of Fuckface
That is so cool, Giraffe! Never noticed before, but Carla has lots of friends but no crushes or dates. She deserves someone. Hey, I know! She can be in a relationship with Amazi-Girl and make all her superhero gadgets for her!
Carla – 🥰 – Charlie
I genuinely can’t tell if you’re joking bc of your avatar here. Tap the side of your nose if you’re joking! Please!
I grant you Giraffe’s chart was probably made before Charlie. But I wasn’t joking, just going by the chart. I still think Carla and Amazi-Girl would be amazin’.
But Charlie is on the chart? And is labeled as dating Carla on it?
I missed it? Still in there plugging for Carla and AG.
oh this is just really sweet actually. like, it really doesn’t matter is theres romantic connotations or not bc i think at the end of the day this strip is just a nice reaffirmation of how much they honestly love each other, and i think that rules.
i mean even with a moment i would’ve expect joyce to also have a mini freakout ,even if she was single and realized “oh i’m bi/might like girls/one specific girls” i feel like she’d be just as freaked out to hook up with a woman as much as a man even if she did seem pretty thirsty for joe even before they officially dated
oh yeah totes, like. If there’s a future Joyce bisexuality arc it’s going to have much more misunderstanding hijinks and funnies™️ than whatever is going on here, but i think what i’m trying to get at is that it doesn’t really matter if what’s going on with Joyce and Dorothy is platonic or romantic, you can’t take away the fact at the core of their relationship is this very real, very genuine deep love for each other.
being able to have that level of trust and emotional intimacy with someone else kinda goes beyond gender and sexuality a little bit, and it’s being portrayed so beautifully here. at the risk of sounding like a hack, something that i’ve just really grew to appreciate is just how incredible love is, even when its not being expressed in the contexts that we typically think they should be, and its just really nice to see that realization being visualized, y’know?
This is Joyce’s bisexuality arc. Everyone’s just been too distracted by Dorothy’s flailing to pay attention to Joyce’s much quieter failure to beat the allegations.
It’s so funny having folks act like this came totally out of nowhere for Joyce when Walky’s been telling us she like-likes Dorothy since 2011, and Joyce has said increasingly gay things ever since.
lmfao believe me when I say i’ve been clocking Joyce as Bi for years now, but at this time Joyce in-comic still considers herself straight. I should have rephrase it as Joyce ID-ing as bisexual arc and not just a vague Joyce Bi arc, but I can see a story beat similar to the Joyce Autism storylines where it just elevates what’s just clear subtext into straight up text.
omg, no no no, that was NOT directed at you, I was just agreeing with John Campbell and subtweeting some other people in the comments today.
it’s sweet as hell <3
HELLO?!
Joe/Joyce warriors if you’re in line STAY IN LINE we can still win this……. somehow…….
Wish that were true, but buffer is over a year
Look, if it were any other character, I’d be fighting by your side, so I get it. As it is, I can only wish y’all luck and hope somehow everyone involved gets to be happy
Blegh
Is it in bad taste to jokingly call you a homophobe for not elaborating? I don’t wanna stir up unnecessary shit.
No, i can take it as a joke, although it might be in bad taste to others. And\but that is not why i said blegh- i’ve no problem with anyone enjoying somebody else, regardless of gender (assuming consent of course). I didn’t elaborate because idk if there will be a consummation of this or if willis is simply being a tease to the readers, and will take this to a different place.
But i gotta ask… Do you want to stir up necessary shit? Lol
Nah, not especially. It’s not like I get paid to.
This will not end well; no matter what we all want to see it is going to go off the rails, down a chasm and explode on impact at the bottom.
What if that is what someone wants to see?
“Ok, that wasn’t as hard as I thought! Let me go call Joe, thanks!”
No, I don’t think Willis is going to rugpull that hard but I’d laugh.
this would be sweeter if they didn’t both already have bfs lol
As long as it all ends Joyce x Walky anything that happens between now and then, casualties and all, is just the martian war.
I love it and I hate it and I love it and I hate it
So….is Joyce going to cheat on Joe and Dotty is going to enable it? If so Dotty and Joyce stocks are going to go down. Fast.
YES LIKE THIS.
Burst into tears. Fumbled over to the Patreon. Paid my five filthy little gay dollar tithe. You’re welcome. Thank you. These beautiful goddamn idiots. Their mess keeps my heart going.
Your username enhances the glory of this comment
I know what I’m here for & we’re gonna get it someday
I really do want to know how many people signed up for the early comic tier during this scene
So… Does Joyce go for a kiss and Dorothy stops her because she (Joyce) is with Joe?
And also Dorothy is with Walky, I keep forgetting they’re back together.
ALSO THIS IS SO CUTE
I think Dorothy keeps forgetting too! *rimshot*
I feel like there is a phrase for this
Was it, “Damnations upon ye, Sir David Willis”?
Something like that
Dante Alighieri is updating his Inferno book to include a special level just for Willis.
This is sweet
There’s a world of chaos outside but here in this room they just have each other and are safe
a b-eye of the hurricane, if you would :p <3
Chat I feel like we’re talking too much about this from Joyce’s perspective and too little about how Dorothy is definitely going to commit seppuku as soon as she leaves this room now.
Nahnahnah Joyce is way worse cause she’s literally getting ready for a date
Let no one say ever again that Joyce is an innocent. She’s been seducing Dorothy for, by my count, 14 days of strips now. (Not counting cutaways to Ruth, Billifer, Alice, Sarah, etc.)
Everyone’s worried about her cheating on Joe. But what is BECKY gonna think?
I don’t think she actually hit “intentional seduction” until yesterday. I think the lip bite was when she started to clue in, since then she’s been monitoring her and feeling out her reactions and noticing that she wasn’t at all put off by the idea.
The turn yesterday was when she decided “Yep, I guess I’m doing this.”
Nah, it started earlier. Lotta subtle double entendres. “I can hang up your coat”. “My laptop’s up in my bed”. “What underwear should I wear?” And most of all, the “please tell me what to do” theme of the whole thing. It’s a seduction, I tell ya!
I disagree only because I don’t think Joyce could be that smooth on purpose.
… She’s been keeping Joe on a leash ever since he confessed.
Like, yeah she’s Joyce so there’s also been many a time she has been anything but, but… Her purposeful non-answer (while implying she reciprocated) was hella smooth.
jorothy nation how we feeling tonight
I am certainly full of feelings.
Pins and needles.
As much as I want it, Joyce you’re with Joe
All that’s really happened here is Joyce visibly reciprocating Dorothy’s attraction. They haven’t done anything that needs to be taken back, so it’s all 100% above the belt.
I hope they learned from Becky to lock that door (not bc IU is homophpbic but because what if BECKY is the one walking in)
Would be hilarious if she walked in like “I TOLD you to lock the door, have you learned NOTHING from me”, and storms out again.
I fuarrking called it!
I mean, this is “ambiguous” only in the most ridiculously broad meaning of that term, but I’m declaring victory.
Somewhere, somehow, a trash goblin is squeeing in delight.
+1 A number of them
— Gawd, seriously, this all continues to be beautifully done. I like to think I’d be able to appreciate that even if I didn’t ship it. But it would probably depend on how intensely I didn’t ship it! A nOTP can really sour things.
— I’d definitely heard this song before, but I think it’s worth considering the full lyrics, since “The Only Exception” is also going to be the title of the next storyline.
Official music video here.
When I was younger, I saw my daddy cry
And curse at the wind
He broke his own heart and I watched
As he tried to reassemble it
And my momma swore
That she would never let herself forget
And that was the day that I promised
I’d never sing of love if it does not exist
This first verse isn’t terribly relevant to Dorothy, as far as we know — but it could certainly be relevant to Joyce, as it’s singing about the negative impact that parental divorce can have on a child’s perception of romantic love.
But darling, you are the only exception
You are the only exception (x3)
Here’s the crux of the song in its own context. The singer’s beloved is specifically an exception to their previous skepticism about love existing.
With Joyce and Dorothy, of course, there’s another obvious meaning — though Joyce isn’t the only girl Dorothy had realized she’s interested in recently…
Maybe I know somewhere deep in my soul
That love never lasts
And we’ve got to find other ways to make it alone
Or keep a straight face
And I’ve always lived like this
Keeping a comfortable distance
And up until now I had sworn to myself
That I’m content with loneliness
Because none of it was ever worth the risk
Here’s a verse that seems more relevant to Dorothy.
Her parents seem happy enough together, certainly not a terrible match, but she’s still gone through the strip so far… trying to keep romance in a certain sort of perspective.
I don’t think she never liked Danny, or that she never loved Walky — but I do think that the exact way she told Walky she loved him was… well, very specific. In the following strip, she even takes pains to make sure he doesn’t feel pressured to say it back to her, and there’s nothing wrong with that at all, but it’s rather mellow and mature for a teenager. And it does, in fact, help to protect Dorothy’s own heart.
Even when she was giving Walky what turned out to be bad advice*, she was still trying so hard to be rational, to be fair, to help him… until that strip where she admitted out loud to herself that she wanted to punch a wall from feelings of grief and loss. She did put her heart more on the line when she went to meet Walky on mud mountain, but, well, at this point we could certainly argue about whether or not that was still a type of trying to protect her heart, couldn’t we.
Not like Joyce, who, even though she’s made many missteps and has her share of romantic regrets, has mostly pursued it with her heart clumsily on her sleeve: her enthusiastic and immediate “yes” when Joe originally asked her out; the way she kissed Ethan while telling him he was perfect and suggesting that the two of them could help each other; the multiple risks she took with Jacob… none of it measured, none of it keeping her distance.
(I might argue that she took things more slowly and measuredly with Joe this second time — after he confessed his feelings for her, she took a fair bit of time to let them sink in, and initially told him that they were at least friends… it’s all been very sweet and cute and funny, but she didn’t plunge in with both awkward feet.)
I’ve got a tight grip on reality
But I can’t let go of what’s in front of me here
I know you’re leaving in the morning when you wake up
Leave me with some kind of proof it’s not a dream
This verse might wind up being the most important for this current storyline, because if Willis is using the whole song for inspiration instead of just the chorus, then this verse predicts that the singer and her beloved are about to be separated.
By Joyce going on her date with Joe, as scheduled…? That’s my thinking, at least.
You are the only exception (x8)
And I’m on my way to believing
Oh, and I’m on my way to believing
This last… little bit.
The singer still isn’t quite, completely, sure that romantic love can be true: that it can be worth the risks she’s avoided before this relationship.
But she’s getting there.
— Still not a fan of cheating, still hope they don’t move beyond this right now and instead just realize they both really want to, still hope Joe/Joyce isn’t about to go poof, still care about Walky’s feelings…!
Is that all of it, am I forgetting something else I need to disavow lol.
ABSOLUTELY OUTSTANDING Character Analysis. I’m too brainbroken atm but if I may add, just to gild the lily…
The lyrics also fit Joe.
You and Yumi having the same brainwave!
It is a good point.
(Also, thank you
)
Since seeing the song as an upcoming chapter title, I’ve just been thinking about how well it fits for Joe (including that first stanza), and I wonder if that will tie in.
Dante on that same train of thought…!
I think you’ve both got a point.
I think my own hesitation is that I don’t know that I think Joe was making even a cursory effort at romance, and I don’t think he doubted its existence so much as he didn’t think he’d be any good at it.
Which, for the record, I think Joe has already learned he was wrong about, no matter what else happens here, and I’m not seeing another Joyce-induced characterization backslide in his near future.
I don’t think Joyce is going to cheat on him, but I don’t think it would actually destroy him the way some folks have suggested.
I’m not sure I get how Joe not making an effort at romance before would be relevant to your point? To me, it seems like it would actually strongly fit the song. Doubting the existence of love, I don’t know that was portrayed as his view– but I also wouldn’t say it wasn’t portrayed as his view.
I think Joyce cheating on him would really hurt for a while and he might respond in old ways, but only for a little bit– just that a couple days would last us a while, at comic pace.
Watching the music video, the part where the singer talks about keeping love at a comfortable distance is portrayed as her being on a lot of dates in quick succession, so that got into my head, but it’s not actually what the lyrics would have suggested to me otherwise! I would’ve been thinking in terms of avoiding romance entirely, which does seem to be what Joe was doing.
As for the other point, I want to say I think Joe has specifically said that love is something he’s not fit for so he doesn’t try, but. There’s a LOT of canon, and I might be letting the folks who keep saying he’s got big canonical trauma about his dad’s cheating affect my own memory of the series.
(I would not say Joe can’t have trauma around it, so much as that my memory is a lot more low-key; something that Willis hasn’t yet actually dug into. …….and which I guess Joyce cheating on him would be a perfect springboard for, if they wanted to go there.
Uh-oh.)
* FORGOT MY ASTERISK.
I don’t think Dorothy’s advice for Walky was necessarily so bad. I think Walky was in a relationship with very asymmetrical feelings, and that no matter what Dorothy had told him to do, it still would have gone poorly. If he’d explained the “I love you” miscommunication earlier, Lucy would have ended things then instead. If he’d pushed ahead and forced himself to sleep with her when he wasn’t sure he was ready… what good would that have accomplished?
No, Dorothy’s advice was fine. It’s just that Lucy and Walky were always mismatched, and ultimately their incompatibilities plus Walky’s awful parents proved to outweigh the positives of their relationship.
But, what, do any of us think Lucy would be better off if Walky had never asked her out? No! Her first relationship was always going to be something like that, and the experiences she drew on for it made her second relationship with Jacob much better.
As for Walky — I think he should take a break for a while, but I expect that ultimately he’s going to circle back to Amber, and they’ll do better their second time around.
Not sleeping with Lucy when he wasn’t ready was good advice, but I do think not clearing up the “I love you” miscommunication was bad advice. Like, “she would have ended things earlier if she had this information” just makes me go, “Okay, so let her end it.” (I’m also not sure that would have happened, but it would have been an okay response.)
Oh, for sure.
Sorry, I think I lost the point I was actually trying to make. A lot of folks talked about Dorothy’s advice like she was telling Walky exactly the wrong thing in terms of preserving the relationship. Bad advice in the sense that it led to Walky getting dumped.
I do actually think he should’ve been honest with Lucy about his feelings, but for me being honest with her about his feelings would’ve meant never asking her out to begin with. That’s me and Dorothy and Walky all disagreeing about whether he ever had romantic feelings for Lucy, though.
I personally think… he liked her as a friend, and also noticed she was pretty. But his head was still full of Dorothy when he asked her out, and his list of reasons for doing so all sounded like Dorothy, and when he talked to Dorothy about their problems later, he even said something to the effect of, “She’s way too pretty and too smart but for some reason she likes me. Can’t fumble that ball twice.”
TL;DR: I agree that continuing to date Lucy after their confusion wrt “I love you’s” was probably a mistake (although again I don’t think it’s one Lucy really regrets anymore). I was definitely talking about a different variety of “bad”, I think.
They’re going to be listening to Red Wine Supernova giggling while they think of each other by the end of next week
LEMBSBIANIMS
On one hand, this is pretty amazing. But on the other hand
So the next lyrics after “only exception” are “Maybe I know somewhere deep in my soul/ That love never lasts”… Wander who that refers to.
I am living vicariously through these characters.
*Wonder. Dammit.
I’ve disliked how mean Becky has been to Dorothy about stealing Joyce, but suddenly I am wondering if she was simply being perceptive.
You will recall her comment about Jacob being Joyce’s type was something along the lines of “he’s the biggest Dorothy ever.”
Yeah, but she was told Joyce was too straight for her and so it seemed like she should maybe be too straight for Dorothy…and I’m wondering if Becky was picking up on that not actually being true.
My first GF cheated on me with a female room-mate as she was discovering she was bisexual. Certainly not a pain I want put upon Joe and it is a weird feeling to have so many people cheering on the very thing that broke my heart as a 19 year old. LOL
To be fair, neither my GF or the woman she cheated on me with were as cool as Joyce and Dorothy are though.
I’m sorry, that’s really awful. I know its hard when a storyline hits close to home like that. It’s unfortunate because a lot of people have been shipping these two for a long time, and they’re going to be rooting for it no matter what. I think (hope) most of us understand cheating is wrong, but it’s easy to get carried away when your favorite ship is involved.
Snoopy, I’m not unsympathetic. We can’t control what resonates with us about stories — for one person who’s been through exactly what you describe, they’d gain catharsis from a story where the girlfriend cheated but then she was deeply apologetic and mended her relationship with the boyfriend. Meanwhile, for you, that might sting worse than not reading about cheating at all.
I think recognizing when a story is hitting too close to home in a way that’s bringing up ugly feelings and isn’t cathartic is also a really important skill to cultivate.
But also? No one is actually cheering for what happened to you, no matter how similar the fictional situation. People cheer for things in stories that they would never cheer on in real life, like slasher villains killing hapless teenagers. It doesn’t mean they’re cool with murder. No one here would cheer on your girlfriend, even the most fervent supporters of “Dorothy/Joyce, The Messiest Version” who actually do want cheating to happen here.
I know:( I’m so sorry. Cheating arcs can be entertaining in a vacuum, but as soon as REAL PEOPLE start sharing that to them, ”this is fine actually, they’d let real friends act like this, why are people so sensitive”, it drains my hope for humanity. I try so desperately to remember that like 50% of social context is lost in writing, and that many are emboldened to be OTT on the internet.
I think I’ll skip comments for a while and do something that makes me feel good. Watch cat videos, sew, catch up with a friend, drink a nice latte. Would you like to do the same and catch up with me in a week’s time?
You deserve the world, darling. Take care of yourself.
The soundtrack has gone to instrumental only; that means this is serious!
Look, whatever happens I need us to get this show on the road. You’re killing me here, let’s roll.
So, looking back, how much of Joyce’s actions were intentionally leading up to this? Can we still just say it was all an accident, oblivious to just how much she was coming on?
I think that yesterday, we saw her realizing how she felt. Everything up to that was all subconscious.
IT’S HAPPENING~
And then Joyce woke up, and realized it was aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaall a dream.
I swear, if tomorrow’s strip has them climbing off the bed and onto a horse, I’m walking.
Soooooo clooooose!
Danny is going to tsk SO HARD.
Some people dislike the pacing here, but Dorothy and Joyce can spend the next three weeks almost-kissing and I’d be here for it. Those last two panels… Willis manages to pack so much subtlety in their expressions into a surprisingly snug space.
I’m just so happy for Dorothy right now. She knows that the girl of her dreams really does love her the way she wants her to, and nothing else matters.
It’s a little funny how Dorothy is like Danny at the very start of the comic: choosing her college based off of where a girl she likes is going to be.
I’m kinda expecting somebody else to enter the room before they actually do anything further than this.
In fact I kinda hope they get interrupted, because while I would like to see Joyce and Dorothy get together eventually, I’d rather they not be cheating on their boyfriends while doing so.
This is probably not going to be good for Becky’s mental state at all, but at least right now these two are happy
Becky has the coolest girl of all, so to heck with her feelings toward Joyce.
I’ve been invested in Joe/Joyce for so long, so help me god.
There’s always the chance here that they’ll decide, no, we can’t, not yet, not while we’re still in relationships.
And each go back, and Dorothy tells Walky, and Joyce tells Joe, with much emotion and tears and apology.
And Joe says, “That’s hot.”
And Walky says, “I wasn’t joking; I literally thought you two were already doing it.”
And when Joyce and Dorothy try to break it off, Joe’s like, “Hey, I don’t feel like we’re in competition; I just want you to have what you want.”
And Walky’s like, “Hey, get me a chair and some Nachitos and I’m fine.”
And Jennifer’s like, “Hey, I just randomly walked in with Alice AND Ruth and we just happen to have Dorothy’s playlist going, sooo…”
And Becky, who was hiding behind Dina and thus invisible, will say, “Look, if we’re all in on this thing together it’s not weird, right? It’s like a science experiment.”
This is pretty much what I expect is happening in the ‘other’ Patreon at any given time.
LET’S FREAKING GOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!
The gasp I garsped
Sorry, but if Willis does this, it’ll all just be fan service. (Maybe done as a dream, like Dallas.) Joyce loves Dorothy, but she would never think what Dorothy is thinking right now.
Man that gravitar makes this comment hilarious. Like, you’d know gratuitous fan service, I guess.
Can MP3s do a record screech as Becky shows up?
I think people are being a little melodramatic about the cheating angle. Dorothy and Walky are barely even really together. Joyce and Joe and have probably been dating under a month in universe. They are all college freshmen. They are not married with children.
If they hook up, but are honest about it to their partners, even if that means breaking up, I don’t really think that makes them terrible people. If they lie and gaslight and sneak around, that’s a different story altogether of course.
There’s so much “if” going around that hasn’t happened yet and honestly doesn’t seem like if will.
That is the kind of perspective you can only have as a detached outside observer tho.
So, the perspective of every single reader. None of us are characters in the strip, so our perspective can’t be an inside one.
Yeah thanks you repeating my point back to me.
You’re welcome.
I’m so agree.
I do agree that it’s the “lie and gaslight and sneak around” part that does most of the damage in cheating.
Cheat, come clean about it and either break up, don’t do it again or come to some kind of terms and that’s not nearly so bad. It’s likely to still be an ugly breakup, but not the worst thing ever.
I think how people feel about this is likely shaped by their current age and experience with cheating. Like there are probably college age people reading this who’ve been heartbroken by cheating experiences very recently, it would make sense for them to see Joyce cheating on Joe as the most terrible, morally bankrupt thing that could happen.
Dude JoJo has been built up for literal IRL years. You can’t just “they’re college freshmen, it was never going to last” that anticipation and affection away
If we follow that logic we should not care about any relationship or event in this comic because they are just college freshmen nothing they do will matter in the nebulous future so why get invested.
Joe confessed his feelings to Joyce in Book-13-01. According to the timeline, that was Tuesday last week, and today’s Friday. That make Joyce’s side of the relationship at most 10 days long.
Sigh.
I could say this could still be platonic but I could say that about actual sex, and I. Honestly don’t think that’s what’s going on at this point. Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe we get an arc navigating deep platonic love and sexual components within that. But I kinda don’t know anyone who hasn’t had the kinds of life experiences I’ve had would write that like this, and it seems counter to what the Dorothy situation has been building up. We are in nails in the coffin for intensely intimate non-romantic situation space, I think.
I’m inordinately bummed about that.
Odd to experience some sort of grief about a fictional plotline. I uh. Don’t usually respond to media like that.
Admittedly I think I baseline don’t expect my important personal experiences to be in media and don’t usually get surprised or disappointed when actually they aren’t there. I guess props to Willis for operating at levels of nuance and honesty such that I could conceive of that happening in the first place. The fact that it didn’t isn’t bad or anything, I don’t want it to read as anything like that, but uh. Sucks for me for personal reasons I guess.
Maybe someday I will write my own stories. Where people can not believe me about my life experiences I put in my comics. Which is depressing until I remember it would put me in good company.
Sorry this was weird. Tell me if this was not a good thing to post or I guess delete it if it is. I’m tired and this hits weird right now.
Hey at least you are able to recognize that as sad as it make you, not getting the kind of development you might have wanted it’s not anyone fault and doesn’t make the story a bad one. That is sadly pretty rare in fandom spaces. Kudos to you for that.
Hey. I genuinely hope you do write that story. It wouldn’t just be for you! A lot of folks would find it relatable, I bet.
Also? Don’t feel bad for not liking this! Don’t feel guilty for being bummed. You’re fine. You’re being super understanding of those of us who are Here For This, and the least we can do is extend you the same courtesy.
Awwww… This is so sweet, tender and romantic that it’s impossible not to feel happy for them. They finally are going with the flow of their feelings for each other without anything stopping them. Let’s hope nothing will come through them. But I can’t stop thinking the door will be suddenly open with Sarah screaming “You have no idea what that jerk of Tony just did!” or something like that.
It’s like Joyce didn’t learn anything from the time she inserted herself inbetween Jacob and Raidah. It’s not quite the same thing, but the violation of trust is very similar. And guess what? Jacob wanted nothing to do with her afterward.
Joe is gonna take it a hundred times worse too. And he even went to bat on behalf of Joyce when that happened.
Nobody’s trust is being violated in this strip.
Joe’s is.
It’s not.
It’s not yet.
It’s at least heavily implied it will be in the very near future, though that could still be a fakeout.
That “yet” is extremely important, though. It holds a line of separation between “is” and “isn’t”, and the line hasn’t been crossed.
That’s true, but you can’t really blame people for inferring what the strip is obviously implying will happen.
They could still pull back from the brink, but they’re definitely on it.
Just a pair of dipshit queers, livin’ on the edge.
I’d actually argue it still has been crossed. Earlier in the day in strip time, Joyce specifically asked Joe to get things ready for their date in order to make it more special.
So while Joe is out running errands to get the date ready, since he is very invested in a romantic, perfect date for his first serious relationship, where he is even asking for advice from friends, Joyce is currently doing…. This. That’s kind of fucked up.
I guess to expound on my own comment here, I am perfectly aware this is a webcomic and that the world is not going to end over two fictional girls kissing, but man I am disturbed by the comment section for this one.
You seem convinced they’re going to kiss. A loving gaze and a stroked cheek aren’t crossing any established lines, and I think if that line was crossed, it could be un-crossed or negotiated in the span of maybe two strips. Nothing severe is happening here, and certainly nothing to get disturbed over.
I’m calling it, Joyce thinks they are being close friends, like her closeness to Becky. Dorothy makes a move on her and Joyce freaks out. Its very possible that despite her newfound openness, she hasn’t even considered homosexuality as a thing pertaining to her.
I guess we will find out.
Becky freaked out. Joyce was merely surprised, and stated her no clearly and kindly.
Pretty sure a “sike” from Joyce here would permanently shatter Dorothy’s mind.
If Joyce says “sike” then Dorothy’s gonna be at Yale in under an hour.
She’s not even gonna drive or catch a bus, either. She’ll sprint there like Sonic the Hedgehog but even faster than that.
This is a beautiful trainwreck, and I don’t know how I want it to end. Someone’s getting hurt, it’s just a matter of who and how many.
Completely random question: Is anyone here familiar with the wedcomic sinfest, and what it has become? It is, bad, really bad. Like, as bad as you might think it is at least ten times worse than that.
Yes, and yes.
I have strips saved to my HD from the very early years, before the cartoonist went full wackadoodle.
Sinfest has been around since 2000, and it was mostly lighthearted fun for the first 11 years or so. It started going downhill when the cartoonist embraced some extreme ideas, and he changed the entire comic to reflect those ideas. First he embraced an extreme man-hating form of radical feminism, which a few years later evolved into transphobic radical feminism. Then his transphobic views led to him supporting MAGA nonsense for a few years.
He doesn’t seem to support MAGA anymore, but Sinfest is now a truly bizarre mixture of a whole bunch of bigoted and warped ideas he picked up during the last decade and a half of embracing all sorts of extreme views.
From what I can see he doesn’t support MAGA because he’s too fascist. Trump isn’t anti-Semitic enough for him.
Nasty. Once a person’s rotted that much, there’s not a lot that can be done for them.
Yeah the Sinfest cartoonist went hard into the anti-semitism lately too.
Oh wow. I stopped reading Sinfest around 2012, sad to hear Tat went that far off the rails.
I used to really enjoy Sinfest. As best as I remember, I don’t think that his initial, early embrace of (third wave?) feminism started out *terribly* problematically, in retrospect (as much as I wasn’t fond of it at the time), because while the new main characters were definitely kinda man-hating (in the sense that they were asking God to kill all men, for instance)… but, thinking back on that, that in itself was still kind of in line with how he handled many of his characters – pushing them into extreme versions of views for comic effect. However, narratively, and in terms of story, I felt that he didn’t handle it so well, because the feminist characters were, if not full Mary Sues, at least characters who he saw as being more or less completely in the right. They were there to correct other characters and deliver morals, avatars of the new moral of his story, for the most part. I can only remember there being one or two strips featuring those characters in which they felt particularly human, like they had emotional depth or character development. He’d been able to humanize flawed characters generally pretty well, but in that new direction, that seemed to get more left at the wayside, at least for as long as I was reading it after that.
And then, of course, things got extremely TERF-y and toxic, to the point that I stopped reading it even for the ever-more-surreal trainwreck of it all, because I felt bad supporting him when he was using his significant talents in service of hateful ideas, most especially about trans people.
I don’t know what happened to him. I kind of suspect a friend of his may have gotten badly hurt in some way, prompting the beginning of his radicalization, and in particular, the significant hostility towards men as a whole. Which yeah, they do seem to be a lot of men being toxic and harmful and dangerous, for sure… Toxic masculinity and all that. But it went to a dark place, and is hopefully all of us are aware, trans people are just not the ones responsible for that, by any stretch of the imagination. His comics went to a dark place, and just got weirder from there.
It probably says something that he followed the TERF-y corruption of proper decent feminism Down the rabbit hole to vaccine conspiracy theories, but I’m currently too tired to think exactly what, or whether that’s an original observation.
He did start portraying anyone who disagreed with his new direction as zombies, though. Possibly patriarchal sex zombies? Which, to his credit, is so completely unhinged and apparently devoid of self reflection that on a metal level, I do think it’s kind of hilarious. Still wouldn’t want to support him, which is a shame, because other than him just generally being a skilled artist, he enters versus his bizarre conspiracyverse comics with sincerely cute comics about his dog and cat.
Well since then he has gone full blown Nazi so good on you for getting off earlier.
Almost a year ago Haus of Decline did a very good podcast about this weird story of a comic author slowly going crazy and openly become a nazi. https://open.spotify.com/episode/2vxarttc6SbDFAZbriUP0K
Same thing happened to Dave Sim the guy who did Cerebus the Aardvark.
Though that was even weirder, since it wasn’t following any ongoing social trends or anything. Sim just went off the deep end entirely on his own.
Damn, that sucked to watch though. The first part of Cerebus was so good. Some of the best comics of the time.
Still super conservative religious misogyny. He believes that “women are psychic vampires, voids that feed off of male light” so you can just guess how he feels about trans people.
I got very strange vibes of Sim early on in the comic. It was no surprise him disappearing up his own a-hole.
Took me a minute to recognize what you’re talking about. My boyfriend used to love that comic before the writer started huffing jk Rowling’s black mold. Particularly the character Vain, I never read it but he seemed so fun. We just sorta, coopted him into our own thing. Remember kids, it’s always morally correct to steal characters from transphobes and make them your ocs.
It especially morally correct to steak from literal nazis. Like, think Hitler was right and that Jews control everything nazi.
Damn, you’re gonna turn ’em into steak? I mean, cannibalism is a little extreme of a reaction, but I guess if it’s just Nazis it’s fine? As far as eating humans goes, anyway.
Is this the start of Joe’s villain arc?
If not Joe, then Becky…
Or about Walky become an hermit.
This is what everything has been building up to, folks
Slowly but surely the pendulum swings from “all of Joyce’s actions have obvious normal, platonic explanations and it’s weird of anyone to think otherwise” to “this must be Dorothy’s dream, Joyce would never act like this”.
It is both weird and kinda hilarious.
It feels a bit like Schrödinger’s Ship Tease: all of this buildup is just bait and we’re silly for falling for it, right up until oh no it’s not bait at all, whereupon everything will have “always” been obviously bad writing.
(Which is what it would be if this turned out to be a dream, for the record, but once it’s clearly not a dream, some folks are definitely gonna resort to saying actually Joyce was always OOC this whole time.)
I am thoroughly enjoying watching this denial of the (lustily) obvious and mental gymnastics. I love how right I was about all of this and what I was wrong about, specifically Joyce initiating this with full earnest.
It feels a loooooot like when I was reading Bleach. There was this whole faction of people who weren’t content with just shipping Ichigo/Rukia, they had to make sure everyone else in the fandom knew that theirs was the Superior reading, making these extremely long posts purporting to reveal Kubo Tite’s authorial intent through what amounted to reading tea leaves, and scoffing at anyone who thought more basic storytelling elements, like Orihime’s established canonical feelings for Ichigo, might be important.
I think it was the first ship war I ever saw taking place entirely between players who at least claimed to all be full-grown adults, leveraging the full weight of western literary analysis (perhaps not quite the right tool for analyzing the romance subplot of a Shounen manga), and sneering so confidently at everyone else.
When they turned out to be badly, embarrassingly wrong, there was a looooot of exclaiming that KT was clearly just a hack who didn’t know how to write a good story, and/or he’d lost the plot, and/or a conspiracy had forced him to change his plans… because you know how they love to force Shounen mangaka to make a different m/f ship endgame than the one intended.
Like, I’m sorry y’all weren’t actually as much better at gauging the author’s intent as you thought you were, that is genuinely a sucky feeling, and I’d have more sympathy if you hadn’t been crowing for literally years about how the rest of us are poor dummies for not seeing your glorious vision.
Also for the uninitiated, I can’t stress enough:
– Orihime and Rukia are both girls, this war was entirely over which girl protagonist Ichigo, a boy, would end up with. Tragically no lesbians involved (in this part).
– We are talking about a Shounen. A Shounen action/adventure story. Romance in Shounen is just… it’s never the main point and it is rarely complicated. Even with the background characters, there aren’t going to be a lot of love triangles or even a lot of unrequited love. A dash here or there (I can literally think of one boy who might have unrequited feelings for one girl, and I think the anime made more of Kira’s regard for Hinamori than KT intended).
– Like, THIS WAS NOT A ROMANCE, the idea that KT was going to pull some huge misdirect after 300 chapters of Orihime consistently being in ever deepening love with Ichigo and Renji consistently being in love with Rukia was very silly, but people were writing doctoral theses about KT’s supposed use of symbolism to hint to the believers that eventually, one day, Ichigo and Rukia would show any sign of being romantically interested in each other.
– The fandom still did a full-on Top Ten Anime Betrayals though over “author resolves long-term pining by having the boy and girl in question notice they’re being pined after and then there’s an epilogue where everyone’s married”.
– Honestly I hope this was a lesson to them to never get too invested in the canonity of your ship, though. I learned that from Digimon Adventure 02, Young Li’s first brush with “you really think someone would do that? Just go on the internet and tell lies?” about censorship in an American dub lol, everyone’s gotta learn it somewhere.
I kinda liked that Rukia and Ichigo were just friends. It was very refreshing for the time than a boy and girl could have a close, platonic connection like that. It’s one of the things that made Bleach stand out to me. It’s still rarely done.
Me, too, to be completely honest with you.
I’m a big fan of that Miyazaki quote:
Which is why Lelouch of the Re;surrection broke my heart, I loved his deep complex but nonromantic relationship with C.C. in the original anime and I was incredibly disappointed that the movies replaced it with this bog-standard tsundere courtship. Especially considering everything about C.C.’s original arc was very anti-romantic love. She’d had nothing but romantic love for hundreds of years. Bleh!
(In which Li gets all their controversial fandom opinions out at once for some reason l m a o ,)
I still think that making Rukia and Orihime end up with their childhood friends was a really unoriginal thing to do. But for how much I liked Bleach, all the story after Aizama’s capture was not Interesting like the first part. On Orihime and Ichigo being a couple, I’ve always see that as the author’s desire, as a fan of Ushio and Tora, that Ushio and Mayuko were endgame.
Rukia was also way more popular than Orihime, so people were willingly to bend the narrative for a fan favorite.
Oh, Orihime and Ichigo weren’t childhood friends. That’s Ichigo and Tatsuki. Orihime didn’t meet or start crushing on him until like, junior high at the earliest.
Anyway, don’t go to action/adventure stories with minor romance subplots (including shounen manga like Bleach) for original twists on romance, it’s super rare that they do anything unusual, and they almost never do anything that isn’t super predictable. Only something that’s really subverting the genre, by an author who’s really interested in romance, is gonna give you that, heh.
As an ichiruki girlie who has sort of cooled off after seeing more of orihime in the manga (and being torn to shreds by some unhinged ichihime shippers to the point that thinking about either ship just fills me with dread now), I partly blame the anime. Ik you’re talking about the manga but the anime made it so much worse. I’ve only watched it and it was pushing ichiruki so hard that it made the canon relationships feel so out of left field. It’s a big reason why I hope it gets a remake, orihime was really sacrificed in the adaptation to push Ichigo and rukia harder and as a retired orihime hater I’d love to see her done actual justice
Nah, the anime definitely burned IchiRuki people the same way that the movies burned fans of a certain wizarding property’s most popular non-canon ship.
I don’t give the specific jerks any leniency because the ones writing, like, their doctoral theses about why the rest of us didn’t know how to read would never have admitted to watching the anime instead of reading the manga, but everyone else gets a definite pass. The first, like, full season and a half of the anime was definitely made by people who thought Ichigo/Rukia was going to be endgame and, like, didn’t like Orihime or care about her character development (and therefore cut chunks of it out).
Actually I’ll take it further than that, I don’t think the people producing the anime actually realized Orihime was an important character until she got kidnapped by Aizen, and I don’t think they admitted she or her feelings were important until her “five lifetimes” speech at Ichigo while he was sleeping. So…….. pretty dang far into the run. :/
Also, super belated, but I’m sorry people were jerks to you, too. It’s both totally possible that there were IchiHime jerks I never saw even while I was active (because different corners of the fandom) and that after I stopped paying attention to the fandom, they got more militant.
I was mostly over off to one side going, “I don’t really ship either of these things because I rarely ship m/f and also I am way too tired for ship wars anyway, but jeez, I definitely know who I think’s gonna be super wrong in a few years.”
(And don’t worry, I wound up with plenty of egg on my face, too. I shipped Aizen/Gin, lmao.)
Place your bets:
1) Dorothy wakes up because it’s a dream.
2) Becky rushes in.
3) Joe texts interrupting the moment.
I’m gonna say a combination of 2 and 3.
Would love to bet real money on the outcome, but people with Patreon subscriptions would have an unfair advantage
wtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtfw… :O
If the Kickstarter (with the year of Dorothy awakening in her feelings for Joyce) ends with them kissing in the current daily updates.. I’ll give all the awards to Willis!
I’m seeing comments about this being a dream from Dorothy.
If this is Her subconscious is downright EVIL.
This cannot be real I REFUSE to believe this is real PLEASE Joe is already traumatised from a cheating dad
I wanna root for Joyce so bad but I could never root for a cheater:’(
I really genuinely don’t think they’re gonna go any further than this.
Not without some kinda blue flashback to Joyce talking to Joe about the Dorothy photo and her suspicions, and Joe giving her his blessing.
Which I don’t expect either. That changes this whole scene in ugly ways. Joyce trying to seduce Dorothy, while Dorothy tries to resist because she doesn’t want to cheat. Then “ha ha, no need to have resisted, we agreed ahead of time and I’ve just been toying with you”. (Except for Walky, she’d still be cheating on Walky.)
I don’t think they’re going to go much farther, but we’re definitely being set up to think they will. At least kiss.
If they don’t, I wonder who’ll object? Or will they just be interrupted?
I think realistically they won’t just fall into a lust fueled craze and go to town on each other. I know the tension has been building for a long time but both Dorothy and Joyce feel way too moral to go any further than a kiss without stopping themselves. I mean a tit pick that was supposed to be a joke threw Dorothy into crisis.
I think a kiss is the perfect middle line that causes drama without completely torching every relationship that could be hurt by Dorothy and Joyce giving in to their feelings at this time.
Lol what is even happening haha
Much as I love Dorothy she is seriously messed up to be doing this to her friend whom she, more than anyone, knows is very out-of-touch with what is appropriate.
My main hope is that when Joe finds out he doesn’t blame Joyce and internalize it. This is literally 100% on Dorothy.
I don’t understand why you’re putting all the blame on Dorothy. Or what you’re even accusing her of. Joyce entered the room in just a towel lmao. And presumably was completely nude in front of Dorothy at some point. And you’re blaming Dorothy?? Lmao. She covered up her eyes. Anyway they’ve barely done anything at this point.
Especially since Joyce has initiated most, if not all, of the key sapphic beats. Invited Dotty up. Made most of the suggestive and subtext-draped comments. Initiated charged and intimate physical contact. Dotty has been a good friend and barely more.
“to”? Dawg I’m not a huge fan of how this is going down but dot ain’t doing shit “to” Joyce here. She’s literally just lying there and leaning in. Joyce has been taking the lead hard in this scene and dots just been following along. Damn y’all really literally see Joyce and dotty as an infant and mother sometimes huh :/
Joyce is literally four years old and Dorothy is her biological single mother, what part of this are you not getting???
/joke
Joyce: Dorothy i, as an adult, want to have sex with you, a lot. This is my enthusiastic consent if you want to have sex with me too.
Some of these mfs: wow i can’t believe Dorothy would manipulate Joyce like this that’s so messed up :/
Am I the only one just massively confused how we jumped here so fast?
I’d also question why it’s a plot point to begin with but I’m not gonna question Willis on his choices even if I think this isn’t a fair progression.
Joyce x Dorothy has been hinted at for as long as I can remember. It has been many many years.
… I wonder what’s the *earliest* example of a DOA character making a comment/joke about how Joyce and Dorothy’s friendship is very romantically/sexually charged…
The first one I thought of is when Becky joined the main cast in 2014
“Man, if you’re REALLY not into girls, why else wouldja be hidin’ your girlcrush from me?”
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-5/01-when-somebody-loved-me/forever/
But Walky’s been making jokes about it at least as early as 2012
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/04-time-keeps-on-slippin/halfway/
Hell, Dorothy *herself* was making jokes about it as far back as 2014
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-5/02-threes-a-crowd/cheating/
Reminder that Joyce and Dorothy have gone much much much further than this before.
I think you’ve missed a lot of both subtext and text within the comic if this feels fast to you.
Also, it’s a plot point because this is a slice of life comic, and realizing that you’ve been secretly harboring a sapphire crush on your friend is a slice of something that happens in real life.
I’m curious why you think it’s any different than any other romantic story thread in this comic.
I think one can simultaneously think “Joyce and Dorothy have been teased forever” and “Like less than an hour ago in-comic, Joyce was very much looking forward to getting hanky-pankied by someone who is very much not Dorothy, what happened to that?”
Like minutes ago in comic. She was nervous about it, but also excited.
It feels really fast for her to drop that in favor of whatever this is. Of course, that depends on what this actually is. She could certainly be having a bisexual awakening and just not have hit the panic about it stage yet. Or thought through any of the consequences.
But some here seem to think that the Joyce/Dorothy ship is now live and Joyce/Joe is dropped and forgotten. (Or will slide seamlessly into poly.) That’s the part that’s fast
She’s just practicing because she thinks its safe. This is gonna blow up.
Still possible.
This! She’s operating under the false information she got from Billiefer earlier.
If so, she’s apparently taken it completely differently than Jennifer meant it.
Doesn’t she think she feels safe with Joe?
“This’d be so much easier if it was with you.”
She’s at least very nervous about sex with Joe and more comfortable with Dorothy.
I fear it may be because there are no stakes in this for Joyce. She loves Dorothy (as a dear friend and adopted sister), and feels like this is a safe space to practise intimacy.
Now I definitely think Joyce is bi to some degree, but she may still be utterly clueless to the fact.
* eyes the rug under my feet suspiciously *
May the Face be with you. and may the other shoe actually drop soon.
Putting that money to Patreon to see strips early? or to Kickstarter to fund that Horse Magnet? What to choose anymore…
I am going to shoot 300 feet in the air and burst into flames
Joyce initiating this without any sort of pretext is amazing (also, a tad surprising) and it lines up well when you recontextualize some earlier moments. She took a courageous leap of faith in revealing her feelings in all of this ambiguity but also fully takes sexual agency here in stark contrast to what was just happening prior. Presumably she has been giving this thought for awhile. Even considering the full context of what’s happening here, I think it’s the most romantic moment in the comic.
Welp.
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
*ahem*
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
*further incoherent screaming, imagine it yourself*
Beat me to it.
I had to read through all 300-and-something comments before I could let that out to make sure nobody else had beat me to it!
Wanted to add one more thought.
This is just quite romantic!!! <3
There I said it.
Okay this has been building way too long. What’s going to interrupt them? No way this actually goes through.
So I’m betting tomorrow’s comic cuts to other characters entire.
Like maybe Becky. Boy we haven’t seen what Becky’s been up to lately, huh?
IT HAPPEN
And it’s so cute and romantic and hng.
I will accept a polycule, even though I’m kinda meh on Joe. I just want trust and honesty between all involved parties. Including a conversation about the kinda heavy teasing Joyce has been up to, leading up to this scene.
UUUUH JOYCE, DOROTHY,
YOURE BOTH IN RELATIONSHIPS
THIS COMIC IS SO FUCKING GOOD
SO SOS SOSSOSOSOSOSOSOSO FUCKING GOOD
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Joyce continuing the trend of breaking up relationships, this time including her own.
It might break up Dorothy and Walky too, so double KO!
There’s another way this scenario could potentially turn out: Dorothy going to kiss Joyce, and Joyce recoiling back in confusion.
That countdown below the comic really works well with the current storyline.
I’m waiting for their glasses to clink together
It’s fine, it’s fine.
This is just a practice run.
And it’s OK because they’re besties.
And Joe and Walky won’t find out.
And, even if they do, they probably won’t mind.
And various other rationalizations going through their heads right now.
That Doyce ship is absolutely sailing through rough waters now, oh my god the face touch at this particular junction in their relationships
Now I get it, Jennifer was there for adding suspense. If it wasn’t for what she said, nobody would wonder anything here, even if you’re autistic, this is clear as day.
i bought and ate kraft boxed mac n cheese in solidarity with their gayasses
Omigodomigodomigodomigodomigod
But Joyce, what about Joe?????
I’m sure Walky could handle it… I think…
But what about Joe???
… Joyce.
… Dorothy.
Shut it down.
You’re both dating other people.
Shut.
It.
Down.
What’ll you do if they don’t?
The same thing fans do when their team fumbles the ball, i guess
I’m talking to fictional characters in a strip that was written literally a year ago.
It’s like yelling at the tv. More a venting of frustration than any call to action.
I do also hate how cheating is used to cheaply build drama.
What I do find weird is someone pointedly asking that question as if it’s not specifically to escalate personal conflict.
There’s no “as if” here, I’m literally just asking what you’ll do. You can take your hand away from the holster.
If my only response to that is “what’ll you do if I don’t?” That’s intentionally escalating things.
Sincerely, how can I interpret that as anything else?
https://youtu.be/RZUq6N7Gx1c?si=Le8Hs51UTkkX0yTZ
They gotta Cool it. Now.
So who will interrupt them?
Joe with unpredictable results
Becky with more predictable results
Jocelyn back from her protests, who will ask her sister what she really wants.
Phone call from Jocelyn who has been arrested.
Cause this ship’s going down
All on account of the weather
Though we’ll drown
There’s no need to frown
‘Cause we’re all going together
blowing up the world
Torn between happy gay bouncing and “nooooooOOOOOOOOO”
everybody is saying someone’s gonna walk through that door and see all this going down, but they’re all guessing it’s gonna be joe or becky or walky or whatever. my money’s on hummel the humming hymnal
Oh my God it’s happening
lmfao hot take i guess but i don’t think a joyce cheating arc is going to happen, even if i do think joyce/dorothy is probably endgame at this point. like, one thing this comic does insanely well is slowburn storylines, and having joyce get together with dorothy immediately after dorothy realizes her crush just feels so antithetical to how this comic does set-up and payoff. like idk just looking at it through a doylist lens, sudden bisexual cheating happening in the same arc as sudden bisexuality realization just doesn’t quite feel like an accurate representation of how DOA tends to build drama.
I don’t think this is THAT different – it’s a slow burn that developed subtly, but two years ago Dorothy taught Joyce how to masturbate and Joyce had her first orgasm and a year ago they got drunk in a bar and were sloppily kissing/groping each other
I missed the “sloppily kissing/groping each other”. They were kind of cuddling, iirc.
oh yeah like the slow burn Joyce/Dorothy romance stuff is definitely there, what i’m talking about is specifically the CHEATING part of it all. i’m just saying even though this strip is a big statement in solidifying the romantic connection between the two, there still really isn’t any motivation for Joyce to actively cheat on Joe.
i think maybe you are misremembering that last part friend
Yo, can I borrow your copy?
Can I have it when Taffy’s done?
Now, I know I said “borrow”, but –
too late, no takesie-backsies.
Damn, I think we’re past the point of no return regarding a potential “fakeout.” Right?
Is it possible it’s all a dream?
Depends what you mean by “fakeout”. It’s pretty clearly not a fakeout in terms of them both being into each other, but that doesn’t mean one of them isn’t going to pull back from letting this go any farther, which could be seen as a fakeout in the Damn You Willis sense.
It’s hard to tell in this resolution, but yes, Joyce has the same sparkling eyes of arousal Dorothy is sporting: https://tinyurl.com/4e8had9v
willis PLEASE dont hurt joe.
I’ve been saying, “Willis, please don’t hurt * insert dumbing of age character here *”, for years now, and that hasn’t stopped him yet. And I don’t think he’s going to. Willis has been exploring relationships and sexual identity, throughout the series. Homosexual, hederal sexual, straight, bi, pan, and ace. He has yet to truly try their hand at a poly. It’s been hinted at, but never given anything more than a passing glance. Joe/Joyce/Dorothy just might be that pairing. Joyce will be the one who initiates, because she loves them both, and decides she doesn’t want to choose.
I was irrationally uncomfortable with this arc and couldn’t figure out why, and long story short this was a wild way to realize thirty years down the road that I was in love with my college roommate.
God DAMN it, Willis.
holy shit damn. not to make light of your situation but when a webcomic is bringing about realisations like that you know the writer’s doing something right.
This feels more and more like a Dumbing of Age fanfic…
All fanfic is secretly written by Willis.
The damnyouwillis69ao3 is particularly well provided with content.
So help me God Willis, if tomorrow you cut from this to some other scene/ couple. . . .
She’s gonna try and kiss her. DOROTHY PLEASE DON’T DO THIS, IT’S NOT WORTH IT
This has been building up, for almost two years; this is totally going to be worth it.
Somebody censored this post, and I’m not cool with that.
It’s becoming more and more likely this is really happening and Dotty isn’t having some kinda bisexual fever dream.
So, how far along the naked train will these two be, before Joe knocks on the door?
How good this comic is:
I don’t even know what I WANT to happen next.
I have NO IDEA what’s going to happen (I mean, yeah, it’s obvious where the story is going, but the next panel could be the logical progression, an interruption in the nick of time, or a “Damn you, Willis!” cut to someone else entirely),
I trust that I will like whatever it is.
This is where I am.
I also feel some “noooo” but it’s like when you’re watching a scary movie and a character decides to go investigate the shed alone at night.
Most of all you wanna see what happens next.
Joe be like, Room for one more?
i’ve been hoping for a joe/joyce/dorothy polycule for a while now.. fingers crossed that that’s where this is heading
Okay fuck it damn i guess im subbing to the Patreon for a month again
Yeah that happens.
It was worth the 5 bucks
Can confirm ^^
Zeno’s kiss. Each strip they get asymptotically closer to making out.
I was half just having fun a few days back with my speculation, but now there is no way this is happening without Joe’s consent. Joyce would not willingly cheat on him, let alone initiate the cheating.
I am going to be so upset if the catalyst for these events is this strip with Jennifer. It feels like such an insult to Joyce’s emotional intelligence if this winds up being the case. It’s such a leap.
I stand corrected. There is *one* way in which this is happening without Joe’s consent.
Joyce is still naive, and struggles a lot with knowing Appropriate behaviour, so I can absolutely see her believing this is okay due to internalised heteronormativity.
Thinking about it, I doubt Jennifer’s advice was the catalyst. It’s hard to pin down what Joyce is exactly thinking at the moment and deliberately so, but you can infer Joyce has thought of her best friend in that capacity based off her reaction in that strip alone, which we already could deduce for years.
It seemed mostly a reminder to the audience and to ease into what’s happening now. Also, the contrast between her muted reaction to Jennifer’s tit pic (immediately identifying Jennifer is interesting too) and Dorothy’s is meant to signify that (along with her wanting to see the selfies Walky got). We got back to back reminders of this thread.
What Joyce is doing currently doesn’t seem well thought out and it is a tension charged moment. I think we’re at least suppose to now think Joyce initially picked up on Dorothy’s change from just their classroom interaction, further more when she asks her what’s she thinking twice, when she shows discomfort at her undressing, and then the reaction to the innuendo.
I do agree with you that Joyce taking that advice at face-value wouldn’t make a lot of sense, but I don’t think that’s what happened even if it made her think about her relationship with Dorothy. We know Joyce knows Jennifer loved Ruth romantically, we’re reminded of this when she appeals to Alice, and Jennifer has actually said something similar that Joyce had an interesting response to and referenced it at a later time to question her.
There’s also her reaction to Jason/Ruth that is probably more relevant than ever but I forget how long ago this happened in-universe. I think what’s going on here is very nuanced and will be satisfyingly unpacked eventually. Links to referenced moments if needed: https://linkmix.co/37791032
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqX49UsVJWA#t=2m55s
Aight, we doing this.
lol
If you told me 2 decades ago on the Joyce and Walky time (especially when Dorothy was introduced),
that Joyce and Dorothy would be the endgame in another universe, I would think you were joking.
And yet now it makes so much sense. hehehehe
i don’t want them to cheat on their partners, but i do want them to end up together. i dislike joe/joyce, especially; even with his character development, i thought it was really out of line to be that confrontational with joyce’s mom after she told him she didn’t want him to do so. maybe joyce changed her mind about it, but it still seems like he disregarded her wishes on a big issue. i don’t like that, it comes across as self-centered and reckless.
Ideally he wouldn’t have done it, but it’s incredibly hard to not defend someone you care about to a person who has treated them like shit their whole life and is currently doing so in front of you.
yeah, i kind of get it, i don’t think he was consciously malicious or anything and wouldn’t judge anyone for liking the ship. i just think with serious issues that could potentially affect your partner’s life long term, it’s better to defer to them. he’s not an awful person, just idk, a bit thoughtless there over something serious.
I’ve found this comic a week ago and spent all my time trying to catch up to the current strips, I’ve been screaming since yesterday I’m so conflicted! Someone need to intervene but at the same time… don’t
Welcome to the rice fields, motherfucker
poor joe. i don’t think he’s getting his dingdong spun on tonight.
You motherfucker, I spat Coke all over my phone
So two if the most consistently decent people in the comic are about to become some of the worst ones by cheating. And the victims is absolutely going to be destroyed because he finally found someone he loved enough that he doesn’t have to be afraid he’d cheat on, and she’s going to cheat on him instead like his dad has to every woman he’s been with. And the worst part is how many people in the comments have been cheering this behavior on.
Yup, looks like it. Also rationalising it as good because they ship it.
That part isn’t happening, silly.
I don’t think this would make them some of the worst
It’s not good but there are some pretty bad people in this comic, even just on campus
I genuinely do not think Joyce and Dorothy are about to cheat on their boyfriends. It’s not this guaranteed outcome you’re making it out to be, if you look at the signs.
This is also fair – they’re literally not even cheating yet.
Some of the people in this comic are rapists, murderers, kidnappers, religious zealots who enable those things, and incels… but you think cheating would make Joyce and Dorothy some of the worst people in the comic?
That seems an extreme opinion to me, personally.
I’m cheering the behavior on because it’s drama and I like drama, it’s sapphic and I like sapphic, and it’s these two who I think are adorable together rn. It’s fiction that I derive entertainment from, and I’m happy treating it like that.
Hey, don’t use the F-word. This is real life.
So true, I forgot that these are our dear friends Joyce, Joe, and Dorothy. I’ll be a better bestie to them all.
well first of all, it’s a fictional story, so no one in the comments is doing anything wrong. No one is actually being hurt because two imaginary girls kissed each other instead of boys.
second of all, hey, calm down. a relationship ending in a bad way is not the end of the world, and two people not ending up being good for each other will not result in any deaths. there are, in fact, worse things that two people who are dating can do to each other, in fact. getting cheated on is not a life-ruining scenario.
Sure is a mood killer, though.
Cheating is actually really cools nnd always morally correct. I think everyone should be cheating all the time, without exception.
This whole subarc has just been wrecking me. This is really hard to sit through as a day-to-day posting. Reading it all at once probably wouldn’t hurt so much, like ripping a bandage off. I’m hoping the next strip is Joe walks in and they split up and then there is a realization moment later and they talk this out without any tragedy….. wishful thinking
…if its really that bad, why not bookmark where you are in the archives, and come back a few days later?
Not to answer for J Con, but I can’t personally imagine being the sort of person who could look away from this until it’s done. (Also at the rate this is going that could take like months lol.)
Joyce, please, don’t cheat on Joe. Be a decent human being and break with him first.
666 COMMENTS HELL YEAH!!!!
IT’S SHOWTIME!!!!
*plays “BeetleJuice Opening” on hacked muzak*
I get there’s different experiences but the extreme tone around cheating is a bit much
It’s not good to do most of the time but no it’s not the worst thing ever, especially 2 teens going through a big discovery of who they are in a homophobic world
for real though. some people treat it tantamount to murder, but like. being a shitty partner is not the worst thing a human being can do everyone. its not the worst thing a main character in this comic has done
yeah, at least here in the US a lot of the intense attitudes regarding it as taboo are often the product of either a Christian upbringing or even just by growing up in a country with culture, civics, customs, language, traditions, etc, largely built by and for it’s European-descended white Christian majority.
Regardless of creed, this remains a dominant influence on the moral intuition of the people here.
As is clockwork for this comic, we are reminded one way or another that “Christian Atheist” is hardly an oxymoron.
ya definitely. i think a lot of people have traumatic experiences with it and thats understandable but ive seen some people really disgusted about its place in the story and its meaning for the quality of the writing and at that point it just seems kinda silly
Ah, these two idiots.
Genuinely, what a sweet moment. I trust Willis, and wherever this goes- messy or not- I think it’ll be fun. And the wild thing is: I have no idea where it’ll go!! And you know what? I bet literally more then anything that fixating on What’s The Worst Case Scenario won’t help me figure it out.
The moments cute. And sweet. And I love these two (and most of the cast). It’s a good comic, sir.
Plus: there’s really, really been worse ways people have figured themselves out. I literally cannot exaggerate.
Over 700 comments DAMN
oh boy time to refresh obsessively
Wait, Did Joyce put the laptop there as bait?
the sheer tenderness in that last panel is just too much. my heart!
I think a “Damn You Willis” would be appropriate, wouldn’t it
OMG OMG OMG OMG
I’ve got me some thoughts on this still. Both Dorothy and Joyce are following Jennifer’s advice here in this moment. What originally drove Joyce away from Dorothy and onto Joe was how she was being very possessive and controlling while Joe their entire relationship has let Joyce move at her own pace. Jennifer pointed this out way back when and Dorothy is finally following that advice. Through this entire scene she’s let Joyce take the lead giving advice when asked and nothing else. After spending the entire comic’s run being a domineering figure she’s finally given someone else the reigns in a relationship.
Joyce isn’t only following Jennfier’s advice about makeout besties but throughout the entire comic she’s been her mentor on bisexuality. She’s the one who told her it was “inevitable”. That dynamic is why both of these plotlines occupy the same chapter because Joyce has always looked up to Jennifer on top of her probably being her first girl-crush.
I think that’s all. It’s very hard for me to write walls of texts even though i enjoy it because my mind wanders too much and i probably had a lot more to say about this originally in my head than i do now.
This is cute….