Give Dorothy about five minutes, and she’ll have a prelim slide deck ready. Using select clips from the Joe/Roz porn. But Joyce will need a quick(ie) practice sesh. Congrats, Dotty; you get to roleplay as Joe being Joyce’s first. Totes hetero; 100% no-homo. Just some good, clean “gal-pal-shall-phall-gal-canal-for-morale”.
this will not end well, Dorothy is going to come on too strong and say the wrong thing and she and Joyce are going to have a whole thing about it… and then poor Joe loses out on his hanky panky tonight. ~<3
What the hell kind of porn are other people watching? I’ve personally been fucked by a space octopus and shrubs no less than seven times in my life, summoned at least three demon women for quickies, and plowed countless MILF-y neighbors while their clueless husbands talked about work in the other room.
There IS a small niche market of porn that is focused on actual sex ed. No erotica; no performance; just real talk and demonstration. Most of it’s free of charge. It’s not widely advertised, though, because porn. I think the Japanese have more of it than anyone else.
(er, so i’m told; i wouldn’t know, personally, um, yeah, totally)
Oh Joy Sex Toy has links to educational porn in English (or American if that’s your thing). I’m not leaving any links to porn in here, look it up yourself.
What does it say that I could totally see myself saying something like that in a similar situation? The joys of boundary lines that are common sense for others that my brain just nopes over.
Joyce’s understanding of normal affection levels and boundaries between best friends were set between her and a closeted baby lesbian with a crush on her. Dorothy has all but explicitly told her that it’s normal for best friends to teach each other to masturbate, do it together, and offer to hold each others’ hands when they climax. When she asked about watching Dorothy and Walky, Dorothy just teased about that meaning watching Walky – she never let Joyce know that wasn’t something that most people would be OK with – and remember, Joyce has grown up with the idea that no privacy is normal. The sort of sect of religion where no doors [as punishment] is normal, and you’re always being watched and judged.
Joyce really doesn’t know these are not “normal” asks between close friends, where one knows more than the other.
“Joyce, I love you, but that crosses several boundaries of mine and I’m pretty certain it would also cross lines that would make Joe and you unhappy too, if you think about it. You are asking me to make out with you, here. You and Joe are in a monogamous relationship, as are Walky and me. I know you didn’t mean it like that, but we’re probably better talking over some of Amber’s stories and discussing what you find appealing, what you don’t, and what’s realistic. Besides, unless I grow about a foot, bulk out, and wear a strap-on, I am not going to be able to do you like Joe, anyway!” *gentle shoulder butt* “Sex between any two people is going to be different. The same people can have sex in different ways. Part of the fun is working out how you fit together and what ways feel best for the two of you at that specific time!”
Gentle, non-shaming explanation of why it’s a no, and a redirect to something that should help her feel more confident and prepared, and to think through what she wants to do…
Or Even something like “Joe is so in love with you that nothing you do would be wrong, and he’d be beyond eager to show you anything you need. You might be better off going in blind.”
Honestly, I wouldn’t be shocked if this was the answer. Dorothy is STILL Dorothy, and now she’s much more consciously aware of the danger she’s in by indulging in these Joyce fantasies.
And in Smarting of Age the best case scenario you wrote might happen. I don’t think Dorothy and Joyce are going to fuck yet, but I’m betting on somewhere between that and your best case scenario.
I am reminding and putting a pin down for the fact that you can have polyamory in which two sides of the ‘shape’ do not interact with each other, only with the other.
I mean, as a romance author, I try to make my sex scenes informative as well as spicy. My kinkier books certainly discuss safe words, limits, and the importance of speaking with your partner before you engage in kink to set those safeguards in place.
But yeah, when the actual fuckin starts, one has to get ethereal and metaphoric fast to avoid reusing the same word fifty times.
Currently in something of a limbo given that my publisher went under during the pandemic, and I’ve yet to find a new one – partly due to not trying for several years due to depression over achieving a major life goal only to immediately have it ripped away.
When my work is in print again (which I am now working on), I’ll pop a link in here for any interested parties.
Thank you for putting good information in your work.
As someone who has a sibling that somehow still didn’t know how sex worked even though I know that they read sex scenes in books, some people are horrible at understanding the metaphors no matter how clear they might seem. I still don’t know how they passed sex ed in junior high and high school and biology class.
I suppose. As a sibling, I went through the same classes that they did and read the same books that they did. I guess that it could have been different due to the couple of years difference in age, but I sincerely doubt it since we had the same teachers.
Amber’s writing seems pretty metaphor heavy too, so if she followed Amber’s descriptions it’s possible she just ends up overcooking a sirloin steak or something.
As someone who got most of my sex ed from porny fanfics… I mean, it’s better than the abstinence only “education” I got at school. And there’s a couple things that I somehow could only grasp from seeing explained in words. But overall: yeah, no, especially if it’s fic written by people who also haven’t had much experience (not saying that about Amber, just the fics I consumed in high school, lol)
Also Amber’s writing is at least mostly m/m? I don’t think it would be helpful for How to Do the Girl Part, which seems to be what Joyce is asking for help with here.
has amber hooked up with anyone so far in this comic? tho reading isn’t the same as physically experiencing it (i do remember mike making a prom night joke)
tho something more visuals like doujins might be more ‘useful’ than text
Amber as opposed to Amazi-Girl? She and Walky apparently didn’t get to third base, but I imagine she remembers Amazi-Girl’s athletic feats with Danny well enough (upside-down, apparently 69ing).
I think she and Ethan came close at prom? There might have been a flashback, but I don’t remember where and Ethan/Amber have too many tagged comics for me to want to go find it
I am hoping against hope that Dorothy says no or else runs away instead of actually trying to help Joyce with this one but sdjflskj it would be one heck of a beautiful train wreck.
As much as I enjoy watching this shitshow of sexual revelations, I fully concur. It would be a humdinger threesome of moral backlash and i do not have the fortitude to deal with it.
Yeah, to be clear I don’t think running away is the BEST response but I think it’s more likely, in panic, than taking a deep breath and explaining why this isn’t a good idea…
Dunno if Bogeywoman means it the same way I do but I don’t want to deal with the comment section’s reaction to it. I know they’re fictional characters.
Personally, when I don’t wanna deal with these people’s reactions, I just don’t. I’ll skim, and if it looks like a comment is going in a stupid direction, I’ll either skip it or say it’s a stupid direction to go in. I used to take it upon myself to engage with people and try to understand their points of view, but those points of view are so often exhausting and invalid, and it’s not like I was getting paid.
I had this most insane dream where I was working at a beachside school at some point in the future and saw one of my coworkers or students or someone watching a Dumbing of Age animated series
I heard Dina’s voice, clear as day, I can barely remember but it was her voice no doubt, i really want to hear her again T_T
I’m imagining this ending with Dorothy and Walky having sex on one bed while Joyce and Joe have sex on the other bed in the same room and the ladies are comparing notes the whole time. Except I can’t figure out whose room and whose beds it would need to be.
Willis, if this both such events make it into the Sliphsone eco- (fuck) system, you can have all me money, aye. O sweet merciful Jaysis, faith and (fuck) begorrah
The slipshines are canon sex events in DoA. But we need an “Amber” tier slipshine, with imagined sex events. So if the actual sex doesn’t happen, we can get Amber’s fevered wet-dreams of it happening.
okay so i’m actually firmly in the camp of “Dorothy Hasn’t Certainly Done Anything Wrong Yet” and i think even with her new revelations both her and her detractors are being way too hard on her on her relationship with Joyce
What’s not looking good, making a playlist for her bestie? Admitting to making that playlist? Noticing it could be construed as gay behavior (begayvior)?
I think its the mix tape listening while she’s ears deep into the “Teach me to Sex like Yoda taught Luke how to so sick flips” fantasy.
I’m kind of sad though, it’s looking like Joe is gonna roll up in a suit and Joyce is gonna be “Ridin’ the Bestie like a Maytag.” and I called it the other way around.
She’s not the one crossing lines here. I say we hold off on the execution until she actually agrees, ideally while rubbing her hands together gleefully, perhaps saying: “Mwahaha, now I can break Walky AND Joe AND Joyce’s hearts in one fell swoop!”
I started paying around the time Dorothy saw Amazi-Girl exercising and had to go change her underpants. Tomorrow’s strip features Faz grabbing a salmon out of a river with his bare hands and eating it alive, like a bear would do.
I’m in camp “Dorothy has done several things wrong regarding this situation” and I’ll be honest, I don’t think today’s is on her unless she agrees and tries to escalate lol.
It depends on how it’s written but my impulse is to say you don’t want that.
Mouseover fires a LOT, so the event would be called a lot more, and you’d have to add in logic to check to make sure the addition doesn’t already exist to avoid pileups, where now it’s probably just firing once on load.
Okay, so the only possible way this can go, given the parameters in play, is for Dorothy to contact Walky for more sex, with the added factor of Joyce watching them for learning purposes. She’s already pitched the idea to him, so it’s not like it’d be out of thin air from his perspective.
Tbh I feel like that would be less bothersome to Walky than Dorothy trying to make them a throuple. There’s a big difference between “Okay, my girlfriend just discovered she has a new kink, probs gonna have to talk about this later if I do not share it” and Dorothy going “I’m altering the terms of our relationship, pray I don’t alter them again” (which isn’t how she would mean to approach it, I just can picture Dorothy bringing it up in a way that sounds like there’s way less room for discussion than there actually is Or even just that coming off that way to him outright.)
I still think he’d nope out of actually doing it though. The only organic way I’ve encountered this situation irl (and outside of porn) is a truth or dare situation gone way off kilter.
Walky has called Joyce “my girlfriend’s girlfriend” and only seems personally unattracted. His response to Dorothy proposing this quasi-threesome amounted to ‘… her?’ His general attitude is chill sass rooted in an emotional intelligence he refuses to dignify. If Dorothy could be normal about this, it might’ve been entirely positive.
His current anxiety is Dorothy treating their relationship like a casual fling she’s free to screw up. “It’s fine if I make a mistake.”
I’m thinking he goes for it – but Joyce and Dorothy essentially have sex without touching, and he’s just kinda there. Disaster comes after that.
Foursome. A Dorothy-Walky duo and Joyce-Joe duo. Dorothy plows Walky, while both Joyce and Joe keep one eye covered and take notes. (Joe pretends he doesn’t need the notes, but totally does ’cause he’s never done threesomes or foursomes). Dorothy narrates the important points. To keep things totes platonic, both beds gotta be used. (also ’cause ain’t no way in hell four are fitting on one bed)
Joyce, Joe, honeys, you both really really *really* need to talk with each other about your sexual hangups instead of deciding “no I need to make sure it’s perfect and not let them know I’m anxious.”
I mean, sure, Dorothy taught Joyce how to masturbate back when she was still feeling like a 0 in the Kinsey scale. So it stands to reason Joyce would want to go to Dorothy for sexy advice.
But the timing… oh, the timing. So much has changed…
My honest hope is that Dorothy struggles through her mental BSoD here to tell Joyce no, lay down some actual boundaries, maybe explain that she has feelings for Joyce and apologize for the laundry room incident… and then Joyce can process that, and, if I get everything I’m hoping for, also come to terms with the realization that she’s really, really disappointed in a not-totally-heterosexual way that Dorothy isn’t going to be giving her any sexy hands-on demonstrations.
That would be awfully Smarting of Age, though, so my more genuine prediction is that Dorothy fully BSoDs and either passes out or runs away, both of which send unfortunate messages to Joyce! But in a miscommunication-that-can-be-easily-solved-later sort of way.
I would love to see these two become a couple (or whatever configuration), but that’s exactly why I don’t want Dorothy to agree to this proposition sjdlkfsj
I mean the responsible thing is to reassure her that Joe is more than capable of helping her through it and she should trust him to do that if she feels ready for this.
See, here’s the thing for me: I could genuinely see Dorothy going either way here, and in BOTH cases it’s going to stem from her absolute Terror at having to accept she may indeed be attracted to Joyce. ‘Cuz on the one hand, ESPECIALLY given her talk with Danny (wherein she got slapped with the knowledge that this is a Her problem, not just A Thing Bisexuals Do), I could see her refusing because she doesn’t trust herself around Joyce right now! But on the other hand, I could just as easily see her saying “yes” because she is so very desperate to prove to herself that things between her and Joyce don’t HAVE to change, that even IF these Feelings are what Joe says (a fact that her overt denialism here would seem to suggest she’s still Struggling with) she can still Be There for Joyce the same way she was with the lessons in masturbation. And in BOTH cases, it’s all but GUARANTEED to be the thing that clues Joyce in on the fact that Something Is Going On.
But then on the third hand, you have Dottie already potentially sabotaging a relationship, to get the relationship she wants for herself. the slippery slopes are a happening no matter what!
God it’s so funny. I just know that Joe definitely wouldn’t have an issue with this, and Walky very well might not as well. But like, that would require them talking this out instead of headlong rushing into doing something stupid. I want my polycule and I’m gonna get a bisexual clusterfuck. Very exciting.
I think they both very much would have a problem, but because of where they both are in their arcs and relationships, I think they’d both be more likely to agree and probably to step aside to let Joyce and Dorothy get together.
Walky thinks Dorothy’s too good for him generally and Joe is still too worried about his past and that he’ll hurt Joyce.
Yeah I think Walky would be DESTROYED. He already sees himself as a boy toy for Dorothy’s whims, basically with her only for her enjoyment (even if she is trying to not present this image), and if he finds out she was just doing it with Joyce anyway? He will feel like even less of a Partner and even more of just a toy, and not even the most exciting one in Dorothy’s toybox apparently.
That’s a lot stronger than I would go. I think he’d likely think she only got back together with him as part of her denial of bisexuality and of being into Joyce.
I thought we were talking about Mary finding out that Joyce made this proposal, which is why the linked comic is about how Mary definitely thinks Joyce is a heathen who does all kinds of sin.
I feel like she’d have no reaction at all to Dorothy, because they barely know each other. https://www.dumbingofage.com/tag/dorothy+mary/ Currently there are 20 strips tagged with both their names, and they’ve spoken directly to each other on two occasions, both with Joyce also present. But for sure, she would be unsurprised by anything hinky an atheist might get up to.
AHHHHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! I Love this strip. BTW are we past her deadline to respond to Yale yet? I forget how time passes in this strip. has it just been like a week or something? I ask because I think when she goes too far, and Dorothy will mess this up, the instant reaction is to run far away.
Yeeessssss, a good bit of drama for the series, but then Joyce, hurt, broken, will reach out. And like any Romcom movie, Dorothy will drop everything in her life, sacrifice her dreams all to race towards Joyce’s aid. *probably while Don’t stop Believing will be playing lol.
It’s not clear about the deadline. My assumption has been that she was accepted for this semester and it’s far too late now, but that’s never been explicitly confirmed.
She says she’s already not replied, but it theoretically could be for next year and she could have time. I doubt it though.
They’re still early in the Spring semester. That deadline to confirm with Yale would be March-April. So she’s good so far. (although i’m thinking she’s already confirmed with them she’s declining)
But she also applied last semester and got her acceptance letter over the timeskip, so my take is that she got accepted for this semester and she didn’t go.
There have also been a few comments that she’s here now because of her decision, though nothing definitive.
As far as I’m aware, the real Yale only accepts new students for the Fall semester for both first-year and transfers (somewhat unclear which her app is, as she said they “reconsidered” her application, but then corrected to saying she “resubmitted” her application–seemingly first-year though, since she already heard back and transfer apps don’t hear back until May, I think).
Yale’s deadline for first-year applicants to accept is May 1. But then, this is fictional Yale so who knows.
(Pretty sure real Yale only notifies applicants via the admissions portal, not a mailed letter, so there’s already reason to believe fictional Yale doesn’t follow the same procedures)
Yeah, it seems like the idea is that if she had accepted, she would be there now, but that really doesn’t make sense for universities. I’ll go with it for story purposes, but I wouldn’t mind the terms spelled out a bit more since it does seem to be such an unusual situation.
Much as I’d like to see this “extremely normal heterosexual activity” with Dorothy and Joyce, I also hope we get to see how the protests Jocelyn has been at went. Hopefully not too badly.
Yeah, as a narrative element it adds a lot of background tension to this, and if I only think about it as a narrative element I can stave off the crushing despair of having to think about how dire the real world counterpart has become in the buffer between these strips being written and their publication
Joyce getting her first orgasm from a second person while her sister is being arrested or worse is just the one two punch Willis would kill to hit us with.
thankfully I don’t have a fear of Apollo’s dodge-ball because the comic is already buffered into next year, so I can say this and not cause it to happen.
No, see, now you’ve convinced me something like that is extremely likely on account of Willis likes to do clever structural callbacks to the Walkyverse and [Majorest Spoilers] Walkyverse Joyce and Walky lost their virginities to each other over a series of split pages while in the other halves of the split all their friends were being brutalized and killed by simultaneous invasions of the comic’s biggest villains. So like, either Joyce with Dorothy or Joyce with Joe feels likely to coincide with some truly world shattering awfulness simultaneously happening to different characters in a different location.
Suddenly thinking about the show The Secret Life of the American Teenager (which was terrible and hilarious) where Grace had sex for the first time and her dad died in a plane crash.
I keep telling people that the likely absolute worst case scenario in the comic is she gets pepper sprayed, spends the night in jail, and has a broken arm. Anything further would get too dark for the comic and I don’t expect more than an uneventful night in jail before she gets out. The other stuff is simply worst case scenario.
If we were talking about a trans protestor in real world 2025 I’d be a lot more worried about her but Willis has talked in the past about not wanting to make things too dark because it would impact the characters permanently.
Jesus fuck, I started reading this comment while scrolling up, so out of context, and I thought you were talking about Dorothy for the first paragraph, like “How are we building to this scenario?????”
Look, do I know what the “ethical” thing to do would be, sure, but… like….if my college crush came up to me said, please teach me how to sex, I would probably also consider something stupid and reckless. Being around a crush does have that way of making you 35% dumber.
“I’m having a bisexuality crisis surrounding you and need to find a way out of this conversation.”
“Great! You can help me figure out how to have sex with Joe instead!”
Just two girls, biting their bottom lips, talking about music, thinking about Joyce’s girly parts, about to go make some mac’n’cheese by the package directions.
Unlike some other bits of anatomy, eyebrows do exist in DoA, but they’re only loosely attached to faces and can rise above someone’s actual head and hover or simply vanish entirely.
The first two panels are a call back to Rich Mullins Kraft Mac n Cheese night. And maybe Dorothy’s motivations weren’t entirely platonic when she was making the mixtape, but there’s nothing necessarily romantic about making a mixtape.
Also, she even offered to show her new music. It would have been a better idea, non-boundary crossing, than what she ended up taking the initiative doing. But non-mistake-making Dorothy would be boring. Just thinking of the context for why Dorothy’s mood was so low before deciding they’d do laundry.
Walky asked her for advice regarding sex with Lucy. plus ça change…
My experience has often been similar. Either I get no answer or the other person gets defensive and acts like I just should intuitively know and am willfully harming them.
“If I had a nickel for every time this had happened, I’d have two nickels! Which isn’t a lot. But still, weird that it happened twice!”
More seriously: if Joyce is, despite this strip and many others, completely straight, then I imagine she’ll eventually process this the same way she processed it when Joe called her a hot chick.
(Her concerns about them not being a convincing couple are largely centered around the idea that no one could possibly think such a beautiful girl would be interested in her.)
Like, I do think this hypothetical straight Joyce would eventually take it as a huge compliment that Dorothy had a crush on her.
Seconded. Did I miss a bit in the Walkyverse timeline??? Uhm Danny, joe, walky… did she do a non-hetero bit while Anti-Joyce?? Did her looking up to Sal get taken as being bi?? I’m not angry I just legit don’t remember!
I think Willis has basically said that Anti-Joyce’s interest in women was, at the time, conceived as being part of her being evil, but also even at the time they found Joyce’s protest that Anti-Joyce was nothing like her unconvincing.
I’m amused at the idea of an evil, lesbian Joyce whose evil includes homophobia. Watch out, ladies! She’ll rock your world and then immediately call you a slur.
She wasn’t a lesbian, just a Depraved Bisexual trope. But again: Willis has basically canonized the interest she expressed in women as like… yeah I kinda intended it to be performative but also Joyce was definitely being less than honest in her insistence that Anti-Joyce was nothing like her, etc
So it is fair to take Willis at their word and combine this with other statements to assert that Joyce being bi is already canon.
What I meant was that Anti-Joyce’s interest in women was like, one strip in the storyline, an offhanded remark, and definitely meant to be Depraved Bisexual.
What I did not mean: “she wasn’t a lesbian, just bi”
Frankly you could sub in “totally uninterested in Dorothy”, too. What I meant was, if Joyce has no interest in Dorothy at all, I still can’t imagine her reacting to this ultimately in any way apart from, “Wow! One of my favorite girls, and also one of the hottest most wonderful girls on campus, thinks I’m hot!” and being mega flattered.
Maybe you misread Li’s comment? The said, “if Joyce is, despite this strip and many others, completely straight.” That’s not them saying they think Joyce is straight. That’s going, “Okay, working within the conditions of this imagined scenario…”
That’s my read of Joyce’s entire deal here – I think frankly that either Joyce is oblivious to Dorothy’s demeanor here or she’s (keeping in mind what happened with Becky) really desperately hoping that she’s not seeing what she’s seeing.
Joyce. Joyce.
Joe is SO experienced and SO SO invested in her having a good time and SO SO SO charmed by her whole deal.
Joyce just wantsta get hands with Dorothy.
I think it’s this part, actually. She’s had the idea ingrained in her (as have most people raised on the femme side of the spectrum) that there’s some kind of value judgment in how skilled she is at sex. Whether or not she acts, looks, and fake-gasps like a pornstar, etc. She’s worried that Joe’s experience will make sex with her boring or clunky, or that bad sex means bad relationship.
I really don’t think she’s noticed her feelings for Dorothy yet.
And then there’s the other side of the coin, that a woman being too skilled at sex could make her look like a slut. Which is a bad thing for some reason. Making it one of those lose/lose scenarios.
Well. My eyebrows might have hit my hairline. but I do fully get whats happening here on Joyces end. Joe being experienced MAKES her nervous. You want to be good at things and not embarrass yourself.
I think Dorothy will help Joyce and show her everything she knows. Dorothy can’t say no to Joyce and now she’s too confused and horny for be capable of care about the consequences. No doubt she will regret everything after. Let’s see if this is what will happen.
This is, almost beat for beat, what happened with my roommate in college and her boyfriend and best friend. TLDR things did not go well for IRL Dorothy, and she was effectively strung along as an easy FWB for two years before being unceremoniously dumped at a big christmas party during graduation year.
Almost 9 years later and Joyce/Joe are married, just had their first kid, and Dorothy analogue from what I’ve heard lives nearby and sometimes crashes at their place so I don’t actually know if they ever broke out of that toxic relationship.
Establish clear boundaries and respect yourself, kids!
THAT is why I started reading this comics 15 years ago. It’s the end of sooooo many storylines. It’s going to shatter the fabric of the dumbiverse head-alien-style.
24 minutes later, Joyce is bottomless and Dorothy’s inspecting her crotch with a magnifying Glass. “Okay, where the hell is it? Your clitoris should be right here *poke*, but it’s completely blank.” “Are you sure? Check the diagram again.”
Either Joyce is in on this and deliberately trying to make this awkward, or she’s planning something. OR, judging from her expression in the final panel, she’s being open and honest about her feelings. All of these are difficult for Dorothy.
I feel like is Dorothy just runs this by both Walky and Joe, they could all be okay with it and now it’s no longer cheating. It’s just a little quasi-open-rel bi petting that everyone involved has consented to at least this once.
That would really be the sensible – and boring – thing to do.
Fortunately for us, Dorothy has way too much guilt and fear inside her body to do anything like “communicate her desires openly to people who may reject her”.
Well fair, but I think she should clear the air about her own feelings before taking a step like this.
And then preferably Joyce should talk to Joe about it, rather than Dorothy, since he’s her boyfriend, not Dorothy’s.
It’s going to be a reverse of when they were walking to the laundry room– they’ll be going to Joyce’s room and bump into someone and Dorothy will be the one who shouts, “We’re not sneaking off to do any hanky-panky things together!”
1. Politely inform Joyce that you are bisexual (Joyce will immediately reject having sex with you)
2. Have sex with Joyce under the guise of totally-heterosexual-gal-pal-stuff (Joyce will feel incredibly betrayed and used if she finds out you’re bi later)
3. Run. Run like the wind. Avoid Joyce, avoid Joe, and hope that mid sex with your eggy boyfriend will quench your lust for women.
There is an absolutely fascinating implication here that Joyce will be perfectly fine having had sex with Dorothy if she believes that both of them are straight.
Cmon, I used to make mix CDs for my friends all the time…
I do want to see the tracklist, though, that’s important in determining whether it’s platonic.
Today on Dumbing of Age: Things just can’t get any more heterosexual!
On a more serious note, I really don’t think Joyce is asking Dorothy to have sex with her here, (although Dorothy may be taking it that way). I suspect she has in mind more of an in-depth conversation, possibly with visual aids. I admit I may be wrong, however.
Absolutely – Joyce, as far as she herself knows, is heterosexual.
But she also doesn’t have a very good idea of what normal sexual boundaries between two normal non-lesbian girls look like. So she’ll probably do whatever Dorothy tells her to!
Meaning that Joyce right here is basically a big fragrant blueberry pie cooling on the windowsill, and Dorothy must decide whether or not to indulge in her sexual attraction to Joyce, depending on how much of a scumbag she feels like she can be.
I admit the phrasing there is weird, but I just don’t see Joyce meaning it literally. If nothing else, Dorothy lacks some of the relevant equipment for that. Hence my suggestion of visual aids.
But it’s “Show me what to do” in the context of “I am GOING to have sex with Joe”.
I suspect that Joyce, much like a previous time she asked Dorothy about sex, is expecting something in a list format or perhaps a powerpoint lecture rather than a practical demonstration.
For once, Joe is actually a better expert (in his own sexuality and desires) than Dorothy.
Will Dorothy not try to coach Joyce and leave well-enough alone? What a question. We still have a plot to run.
Dorothy has never been nearly as put together as she thought or as self-aware, which is not a criticism. Her best successes in the comic are when she realizes she needs to change.
Maybe, but I also think Dorothy has already gotten over that particular hurdle. After her last conversation with Joe, I think they’re probably closer to being friends than they’ve ever been before.
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Dotty dat a really long way of sayin “no homo” there in the middle panel XD
It flew over Joyce’s head better than anything shorter tho, can’t diss it if it works (???)
The important point is that now Dorothy HAS to show her what to do in detail at every step.
This is certain to end well for everyone. Particularly for us.
So, find a suitable porno, job done, right?
Give Dorothy about five minutes, and she’ll have a prelim slide deck ready. Using select clips from the Joe/Roz porn. But Joyce will need a quick(ie) practice sesh. Congrats, Dotty; you get to roleplay as Joe being Joyce’s first. Totes hetero; 100% no-homo. Just some good, clean “gal-pal-shall-phall-gal-canal-for-morale”.
that last tortured turn of phrase is a measure of otherwordly beauty and it’s a crime that nobody else gave congratulations
No, no, Dorothy’s in full “Say No To This” mode.
And so it begins…
Really this is more of an escalation of a thing that had already begun.
Not until Dorothy gets in there and shows Joyce how to begin.
this will not end well, Dorothy is going to come on too strong and say the wrong thing and she and Joyce are going to have a whole thing about it… and then poor Joe loses out on his hanky panky tonight. ~<3
Didn’t that begin while they did laundry?
A telling point, I think, was Joyce telling Dorothy to leave so she could finish getting to orgasm. Instead of getting there in Dorothy’s presence.
Yup. Only super heterosexual activities here.
Yeah that last sentence is nuts.
@ AK well it is an escalation but nothing too surpirising considering the laundry room ‘teaching’ lol
Oh.
Oh noooo…
I know, right? Incoming train wreck…3….2….1….
Extremely heterosexual things going on here.
Jinx.
By which I mean you and I are thinking the same thing.
Wassup?
sagely nodding at both of you and shaking your hands
Oh god, she’s a visual learner.
well she did see joes sex tape but we don’t know how high quality the vid was lol
well she did see joes sex tape but we don’t know how high quality the vid was lol
well she did see joes sex tape but we don’t know how high quality the vid was lol
When I make a mistake like that the site admonishes me for making duplicate posts…
She watched it 3 times?
I know, right? Like, ONLY 3 times? That’s willpower and/or her upbringing stopping her.
Danny’s toe was in the shot the whole time so who knows
Danny’s toe included for scale.
Some people learn best by doing.
I think ive seen this porno
Not yet I haven’t.
To my knowledge, Willis hasn’t posted it yet.
— Lesbian fashion icon Marty Mcfly
same here, but usually the one doing the teaching has about a decade or so on the “trainee”
I wonderh ow much money roz would make if it was some kinda’ tutrorial ‘style vids or so
Just remember kids, porn is very unrealistic in almost everything about sex.
So what I’m hearing is there’s a gap in the market
What the hell kind of porn are other people watching? I’ve personally been fucked by a space octopus and shrubs no less than seven times in my life, summoned at least three demon women for quickies, and plowed countless MILF-y neighbors while their clueless husbands talked about work in the other room.
There IS a small niche market of porn that is focused on actual sex ed. No erotica; no performance; just real talk and demonstration. Most of it’s free of charge. It’s not widely advertised, though, because porn. I think the Japanese have more of it than anyone else.
(er, so i’m told; i wouldn’t know, personally, um, yeah, totally)
I know about this personally because I have watched some of this porn, ama
Oh Joy Sex Toy has links to educational porn in English (or American if that’s your thing). I’m not leaving any links to porn in here, look it up yourself.
Oh yeah, I remember OJST! Read some years ago, when Danielle Corsetto was talking it up.
First panel Dorothy can hear Amber going “don’t say you should fuck her.”
Last panel Dorothy can too.
Volume really dialed down in the first half of that last sentence, though.
Meanwhile, Dorothy’s heart slams her breastbone as her brain insta-melts and runs out her ears.
There is ZERO heteronormative explanation for Joyce’s phrasing in that last panel.
What does it say that I could totally see myself saying something like that in a similar situation? The joys of boundary lines that are common sense for others that my brain just nopes over.
Joyce’s understanding of normal affection levels and boundaries between best friends were set between her and a closeted baby lesbian with a crush on her. Dorothy has all but explicitly told her that it’s normal for best friends to teach each other to masturbate, do it together, and offer to hold each others’ hands when they climax. When she asked about watching Dorothy and Walky, Dorothy just teased about that meaning watching Walky – she never let Joyce know that wasn’t something that most people would be OK with – and remember, Joyce has grown up with the idea that no privacy is normal. The sort of sect of religion where no doors [as punishment] is normal, and you’re always being watched and judged.
Joyce really doesn’t know these are not “normal” asks between close friends, where one knows more than the other.
“Joyce, I love you, but that crosses several boundaries of mine and I’m pretty certain it would also cross lines that would make Joe and you unhappy too, if you think about it. You are asking me to make out with you, here. You and Joe are in a monogamous relationship, as are Walky and me. I know you didn’t mean it like that, but we’re probably better talking over some of Amber’s stories and discussing what you find appealing, what you don’t, and what’s realistic. Besides, unless I grow about a foot, bulk out, and wear a strap-on, I am not going to be able to do you like Joe, anyway!” *gentle shoulder butt* “Sex between any two people is going to be different. The same people can have sex in different ways. Part of the fun is working out how you fit together and what ways feel best for the two of you at that specific time!”
Gentle, non-shaming explanation of why it’s a no, and a redirect to something that should help her feel more confident and prepared, and to think through what she wants to do…
Or Even something like “Joe is so in love with you that nothing you do would be wrong, and he’d be beyond eager to show you anything you need. You might be better off going in blind.”
Honestly, I wouldn’t be shocked if this was the answer. Dorothy is STILL Dorothy, and now she’s much more consciously aware of the danger she’s in by indulging in these Joyce fantasies.
“Baby queer”, definitely. She has self identified as bi.
My first guess is she runs away like Walky (and probably TO Walky again), leaving just a cloud of horny dust.
The commenter was referring to Becky with the phrase baby lesbian..
Yeah I guess she COULD say all that, if she wanted to be boring and not fuck Joyce
And in Smarting of Age the best case scenario you wrote might happen. I don’t think Dorothy and Joyce are going to fuck yet, but I’m betting on somewhere between that and your best case scenario.
So less “strap on” and more “strap in“.
Hmmm… naw, I like the other way better.
Get the Popcorn, this is gonna be GOOD.
I’ve seen this porn.
So say we all.
I am reminding and putting a pin down for the fact that you can have polyamory in which two sides of the ‘shape’ do not interact with each other, only with the other.
I was going to say “Joyce has read Amber’s fanfic right” but then I remembered that written porn is not a good cipher on how to actually do sex.
I mean, as a romance author, I try to make my sex scenes informative as well as spicy. My kinkier books certainly discuss safe words, limits, and the importance of speaking with your partner before you engage in kink to set those safeguards in place.
But yeah, when the actual fuckin starts, one has to get ethereal and metaphoric fast to avoid reusing the same word fifty times.
Is it possible to tell what name you publish under?
Currently in something of a limbo given that my publisher went under during the pandemic, and I’ve yet to find a new one – partly due to not trying for several years due to depression over achieving a major life goal only to immediately have it ripped away.
When my work is in print again (which I am now working on), I’ll pop a link in here for any interested parties.
Thank you for putting good information in your work.
As someone who has a sibling that somehow still didn’t know how sex worked even though I know that they read sex scenes in books, some people are horrible at understanding the metaphors no matter how clear they might seem. I still don’t know how they passed sex ed in junior high and high school and biology class.
In some states, sex ed is optional. And in more states, it’s very dry, entirely about safe dating and biology, and almost zero about how sex is done.
I suppose. As a sibling, I went through the same classes that they did and read the same books that they did. I guess that it could have been different due to the couple of years difference in age, but I sincerely doubt it since we had the same teachers.
Amber’s writing seems pretty metaphor heavy too, so if she followed Amber’s descriptions it’s possible she just ends up overcooking a sirloin steak or something.
As someone who got most of my sex ed from porny fanfics… I mean, it’s better than the abstinence only “education” I got at school. And there’s a couple things that I somehow could only grasp from seeing explained in words. But overall: yeah, no, especially if it’s fic written by people who also haven’t had much experience (not saying that about Amber, just the fics I consumed in high school, lol)
Also Amber’s writing is at least mostly m/m? I don’t think it would be helpful for How to Do the Girl Part, which seems to be what Joyce is asking for help with here.
has amber hooked up with anyone so far in this comic? tho reading isn’t the same as physically experiencing it (i do remember mike making a prom night joke)
tho something more visuals like doujins might be more ‘useful’ than text
Amber as opposed to Amazi-Girl? She and Walky apparently didn’t get to third base, but I imagine she remembers Amazi-Girl’s athletic feats with Danny well enough (upside-down, apparently 69ing).
I think she and Ethan came close at prom? There might have been a flashback, but I don’t remember where and Ethan/Amber have too many tagged comics for me to want to go find it
Okay, I succumbed to temptation and checked, I couldn’t find it.
Now curious if I’m mixing it up with a Shortpacked! strip
Search for Mike+Amber where it’s discussed.
Yeah, that did happen. But I don’t think they got past second base.
She had sex with Danny whilst hanging from a grappling hook. And other times too, but they were dating before the proper DID split.
She also did the do with Walky (who only dated Amber, and not Amazi-Girl).
The later ones were fully as Amazi-Girl, but their first time started as Amazi-Girl, but ended with Amber.
I’m a little surprised Joyce didn’t consider asking Roz for her sexpertise.
Well, Roz isn’t her best friend, and it’s only still platonic if it’s your best friend.
Ooooh, I think you’re on to something with where this might be going if Joyce took that at face value.
I am hoping against hope that Dorothy says no or else runs away instead of actually trying to help Joyce with this one but sdjflskj it would be one heck of a beautiful train wreck.
As much as I enjoy watching this shitshow of sexual revelations, I fully concur. It would be a humdinger threesome of moral backlash and i do not have the fortitude to deal with it.
Yeah, to be clear I don’t think running away is the BEST response but I think it’s more likely, in panic, than taking a deep breath and explaining why this isn’t a good idea…
What? You don’t have to deal with it. It’s the fictional characters’ fictional problems, not yours.
Dunno if Bogeywoman means it the same way I do but I don’t want to deal with the comment section’s reaction to it. I know they’re fictional characters.
Personally, when I don’t wanna deal with these people’s reactions, I just don’t. I’ll skim, and if it looks like a comment is going in a stupid direction, I’ll either skip it or say it’s a stupid direction to go in. I used to take it upon myself to engage with people and try to understand their points of view, but those points of view are so often exhausting and invalid, and it’s not like I was getting paid.
Heh, that’s very valid.
What? You aren’t getting paid like the rest of us?
Wait you guys are getting paid?
Ohhh…if Joyce is thinking of that last panel…in asking Dorothy…yeah, we’ve got lots of disaster coming soon.
Joyce likes Dorothy a lot more than she likes Roz.
I mean she pretty much tried her already
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2024/comic/book-15/01-love-dares-you-to-change/behave-3/
Ah, yes, those noises Roz made. Those were something. Weren’t they, Joyce?
Oh, good memory! I’d forgotten that!
Oh yeah, I forgot about that. That actually explains quite a lot, doesn’t it?
To be fair, that was Dorothy’s first reaction too when Joyce brought up the casual voyeurism.
happy birthday to me
happy birthday to you!
the world iz a zoo!
we wish ya a great party!
and the Joyce X Becky ship too!
An unfortunate typo there but I fully accept the intended well-wishes. <3 <3
ooops Joyce X Dorothy i mean XD
sadfasd;kf;asd i will see myself into bed now
<3
Sleep well!
that I did
I had this most insane dream where I was working at a beachside school at some point in the future and saw one of my coworkers or students or someone watching a Dumbing of Age animated series
I heard Dina’s voice, clear as day, I can barely remember but it was her voice no doubt, i really want to hear her again T_T
Aww
A very merry un-birthday, to you!
🧁
hee, thank you
Happy birthday!
Thank you!
Joyce, that is the least heterosexual thing you could have said.
i’m not seeing the problem. this is absolutely normal bestie behavior. all hetero besties do this
Just ask Jennifer.
Besties can totally hetero-make out with each other. Even bang once. It’s allowed.
A little one on one tutoring.
A roleplaying duet adventure, if you will.
More like a duvet adventure, amirite?
I’m imagining this ending with Dorothy and Walky having sex on one bed while Joyce and Joe have sex on the other bed in the same room and the ladies are comparing notes the whole time. Except I can’t figure out whose room and whose beds it would need to be.
… but ngl I’m kinda into it now
Man, if Dorothy was ever going to make the Joyce freak out face, i would have thought it would be there.
I can only imagine she’s still buffering.
Every day I’m buffering
Buffering, buffering
…
…
Yeah.
A fatal error has occurred, this Dorothy will now shut down.
Would you like to send an error report?
The boob-screen-of-death has occurred. Please turn your Dorothy off and back on again.
She’s gonna go hammer the ol’ F12 key to change the BIOS.
Surprise twist. Joyce read Dorothy’s expression earlier and knows exactly what she’s doing.
That would be kind of an amazing twist.
So many minds would be blown, mine very much included fff
The perfect storm
Hey, mixtapes can absolutely be heterosexual
which would be the only thing in today’s strip about which that is true
But seriously i made mixtapes for friends all the time to prosletyze favorite artists to them.
And, yeah, sometimes as part of a courtship ritual
Yeah, I think Dorothy isn’t necessarily saying it can’t ever be platonic, just that… she is recontextualizing a lot of her actions and feelings.
“… and I’m gonna go make one for Gary and Rod and Nicky and Trekkie Monster and everyone!”
Tell us more about Trekkie Monster.
Panel 6: Dorothy explodes.
Couldn’t decide how best to transcribe the laugh I immediately had upon reading the final panel, so uh
here, have this
…the throuple was never not gonna be awkward, huh
AW COME ON
Amber’s voice calling to Dorothy like the Green Goblin’s mask, all “fuck herrrr, I see no drawbackssss. It’s incredible.
Willis, if this both such events make it into the Sliphsone eco- (fuck) system, you can have all me money, aye. O sweet merciful Jaysis, faith and (fuck) begorrah
The slipshines are canon sex events in DoA. But we need an “Amber” tier slipshine, with imagined sex events. So if the actual sex doesn’t happen, we can get Amber’s fevered wet-dreams of it happening.
The apocryphal Slipshine omnibus: You Fucking Wish.
Alternately, Willis defictionalizes Amber’s AO3 account, and some of us get Meat / Candy flashbacks.
*gets out credit card
It’s gonna happen on NSFW patreon most likely
Slipshine is the one who gotta commission Willis for those to hapoen on that site in particular
okay so i’m actually firmly in the camp of “Dorothy Hasn’t Certainly Done Anything Wrong Yet” and i think even with her new revelations both her and her detractors are being way too hard on her on her relationship with Joyce
but this right here is not looking good
What’s not looking good, making a playlist for her bestie? Admitting to making that playlist? Noticing it could be construed as gay behavior (begayvior)?
I think its the mix tape listening while she’s ears deep into the “Teach me to Sex like Yoda taught Luke how to so sick flips” fantasy.
I’m kind of sad though, it’s looking like Joe is gonna roll up in a suit and Joyce is gonna be “Ridin’ the Bestie like a Maytag.” and I called it the other way around.
She’s not the one crossing lines here. I say we hold off on the execution until she actually agrees, ideally while rubbing her hands together gleefully, perhaps saying: “Mwahaha, now I can break Walky AND Joe AND Joyce’s hearts in one fell swoop!”
Honestly if Dorothy went full supervillain like that I would start paying for the patreon to see what happened next.
I started paying around the time Dorothy saw Amazi-Girl exercising and had to go change her underpants. Tomorrow’s strip features Faz grabbing a salmon out of a river with his bare hands and eating it alive, like a bear would do.
How could you, Taffy! We swore an OATH! a patreon secret-keepers oath!!
I ain’t swore shit, y’all city folk’s the ones done made it a blood pact an’ whatnot.
Finally, this strip has too much Faz erasure. We gotta have at least one alpha male in this comic.
I mean, supervillain!Dorothy does have precedent
I’m in camp “Dorothy has done several things wrong regarding this situation” and I’ll be honest, I don’t think today’s is on her unless she agrees and tries to escalate lol.
Joe will, again, tell them he’s fine with them doing… whatever… together. And proud of them exploring one another.
And the girls will fail to hear him. Again.
I’m not sure that’s precisely what Joe has said.
Joe said it with the look of a kicked puppy. He is still fully riding his “I want my beloved to be happy” martyr complex.
So he’d be “Fine” with it, like he was “Fine” being an ethical slut instead of trying to have a normal relationship before.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2024/comic/book-14/04-for-me-it-was-tuesday/flush/
He technically said some of those words!
But yeah, I don’t think he’d actually be fine with it.
(that didn’t work) this css i installed one time…..
Oh hey, I wrote that CSS!
It is fantastic, but it should probably be on mouseover. A little surprise every now and then.
It depends on how it’s written but my impulse is to say you don’t want that.
Mouseover fires a LOT, so the event would be called a lot more, and you’d have to add in logic to check to make sure the addition doesn’t already exist to avoid pileups, where now it’s probably just firing once on load.
Oh BOY
Okay, so the only possible way this can go, given the parameters in play, is for Dorothy to contact Walky for more sex, with the added factor of Joyce watching them for learning purposes. She’s already pitched the idea to him, so it’s not like it’d be out of thin air from his perspective.
That would probably be the safest way to say yes to this.
But also: oh no
Big oh no when Walky notices that A) Dorothy is doing it more enthusiastically while Joyce is watching and/or B) The way Dorothy looks at Joyce.
I’m sure he’d be fine with that. Especially if it means he gets extra vigorous fuckin’ out of his hot bisexual girlfriend who openly loves him.
Is that before or after she makes him wear the Joyce wig?
After, obvi.
Tbh I feel like that would be less bothersome to Walky than Dorothy trying to make them a throuple. There’s a big difference between “Okay, my girlfriend just discovered she has a new kink, probs gonna have to talk about this later if I do not share it” and Dorothy going “I’m altering the terms of our relationship, pray I don’t alter them again” (which isn’t how she would mean to approach it, I just can picture Dorothy bringing it up in a way that sounds like there’s way less room for discussion than there actually is Or even just that coming off that way to him outright.)
I still think he’d nope out of actually doing it though. The only organic way I’ve encountered this situation irl (and outside of porn) is a truth or dare situation gone way off kilter.
Walky has called Joyce “my girlfriend’s girlfriend” and only seems personally unattracted. His response to Dorothy proposing this quasi-threesome amounted to ‘… her?’ His general attitude is chill sass rooted in an emotional intelligence he refuses to dignify. If Dorothy could be normal about this, it might’ve been entirely positive.
His current anxiety is Dorothy treating their relationship like a casual fling she’s free to screw up. “It’s fine if I make a mistake.”
I’m thinking he goes for it – but Joyce and Dorothy essentially have sex without touching, and he’s just kinda there. Disaster comes after that.
Foursome. A Dorothy-Walky duo and Joyce-Joe duo. Dorothy plows Walky, while both Joyce and Joe keep one eye covered and take notes. (Joe pretends he doesn’t need the notes, but totally does ’cause he’s never done threesomes or foursomes). Dorothy narrates the important points. To keep things totes platonic, both beds gotta be used. (also ’cause ain’t no way in hell four are fitting on one bed)
Extremely Sapphic energy in this comic.
This is the plot of at least 3,278 “sapphic” fanfics on AO3 so we’ll see where this is going
I assume Joyce expects Dorothy to watch with one hand over the Joe parts.
You know, as heterosexual women do.
I see no way that Joe will show up early and find this tutorial session in progress. Everything will be fine.
Joe in a SUIT. With flowers and candy like a proper Romantic Gentleman.
Particularly since we know there is a gazebo in our future.
And with Dorothy’s detailed coaching, Joyce will be perfect.
What the heck. This wasn’t where I made the comment.
Or Sarah unexpectedly returning in her room. I wonder if she would use her baseball bat on Dorothy.
*Kenny G ripoff muzak kicks off in the background*
I love Dorothy realizing exactly how tormentuous this hell of her own making is.
Joyce, Joe, honeys, you both really really *really* need to talk with each other about your sexual hangups instead of deciding “no I need to make sure it’s perfect and not let them know I’m anxious.”
sob oh right he tried asking Dina for advice and Dina was nnnnnot terribly comforting
Joe’s asking Dina for advice wasn’t really a bad thing, the problem is him not talking more with Joyce about things.
I mean it was a good idea! It just did not reassure him.
this is how slipshines are born
Y’know, like gals being pals!
Ladies, is it bisexual to help your lady friend practice having sex with her boyfriend to a playlist you picked out for her?
Why would you think that?
as many of the manga I’ve read have pointed out, it’s not gay if it’s just practice
(though for some reason the boyfriends always seem to get broken up with afterwards :\ no idea why)
Well.
Here we go.
OH. OH NO.
Oh… oh, no…
Well, this can’t possibly go wrong.
I mean, sure, Dorothy taught Joyce how to masturbate back when she was still feeling like a 0 in the Kinsey scale. So it stands to reason Joyce would want to go to Dorothy for sexy advice.
But the timing… oh, the timing. So much has changed…
So I see we’re going straight from “No homo” to “OH NO homo”
Well dotty time to do the responsible thing. Tell her no then go drown your sorrows. Tho that’s not my preferred option but it is the reasonable one.
My honest hope is that Dorothy struggles through her mental BSoD here to tell Joyce no, lay down some actual boundaries, maybe explain that she has feelings for Joyce and apologize for the laundry room incident… and then Joyce can process that, and, if I get everything I’m hoping for, also come to terms with the realization that she’s really, really disappointed in a not-totally-heterosexual way that Dorothy isn’t going to be giving her any sexy hands-on demonstrations.
That would be awfully Smarting of Age, though, so my more genuine prediction is that Dorothy fully BSoDs and either passes out or runs away, both of which send unfortunate messages to Joyce! But in a miscommunication-that-can-be-easily-solved-later sort of way.
I would love to see these two become a couple (or whatever configuration), but that’s exactly why I don’t want Dorothy to agree to this proposition sjdlkfsj
I mean the responsible thing is to reassure her that Joe is more than capable of helping her through it and she should trust him to do that if she feels ready for this.
Because Dorothy has such confidence in Joe.
Time to FEIGN CONFIDENCE through gritted teeth while obviously spiraling inside, surely Joyce will suspect nothing.
If there’s one thing she believes he knows how to do. It’s this.
Even if Dorothy lacks confidence in Joe, there is no better advice to give than to communicate with your partner.
I’m betting a harvest of maybe 400 comments.
Well yeah, Dorothy was asked to do something by another character, which is very wrong of her.
You are fast approaching my favorite part of this comment section.
I’m everyone’s favorite.
How very dare she
I’m doing my part!
sliding this up where it was supposed to go
That exact scene was my immediate thought, upon reading your phrase.
<3
This makes 56 comments from me l o l , I did literally do my part.
I might also have a problem!
Your bet is looking good, 373 (now 4 I guess!) right now ^^
Dorothy’s Brain: Syntax Error. Abort/Retry/Ignore?
She’s getting notices to update to the new Dorothy MyBi, but the process isn’t complete.
They’ll do it no matter what you click. It really is such bullshit.
[BISEXUAL PERIL INTENSIFIES]
See, here’s the thing for me: I could genuinely see Dorothy going either way here, and in BOTH cases it’s going to stem from her absolute Terror at having to accept she may indeed be attracted to Joyce. ‘Cuz on the one hand, ESPECIALLY given her talk with Danny (wherein she got slapped with the knowledge that this is a Her problem, not just A Thing Bisexuals Do), I could see her refusing because she doesn’t trust herself around Joyce right now! But on the other hand, I could just as easily see her saying “yes” because she is so very desperate to prove to herself that things between her and Joyce don’t HAVE to change, that even IF these Feelings are what Joe says (a fact that her overt denialism here would seem to suggest she’s still Struggling with) she can still Be There for Joyce the same way she was with the lessons in masturbation. And in BOTH cases, it’s all but GUARANTEED to be the thing that clues Joyce in on the fact that Something Is Going On.
If she doesn’t know already.
Despite the “uh oh” before getting sloshed, I think a kiss from Dorothy would be met with a full-on Joyce Face.
Immediately followed by leaning back in.
But then on the third hand, you have Dottie already potentially sabotaging a relationship, to get the relationship she wants for herself. the slippery slopes are a happening no matter what!
Hey! How do you have a third hand?!?
It’s called “the gripping hand” by Niven fans.
Slippery slopes make for great slippery shines.
I don’t read that “very normal hetero thing to do” as overt denial so much as self-deprecating sudden awareness.
+1
I’m doing my part!
they said, self-deprecatingly
Darn it, that was supposed to be a response to @Stanistani. Got distracted downloading and uploading the right gif.
God it’s so funny. I just know that Joe definitely wouldn’t have an issue with this, and Walky very well might not as well. But like, that would require them talking this out instead of headlong rushing into doing something stupid. I want my polycule and I’m gonna get a bisexual clusterfuck. Very exciting.
I think they both very much would have a problem, but because of where they both are in their arcs and relationships, I think they’d both be more likely to agree and probably to step aside to let Joyce and Dorothy get together.
Walky thinks Dorothy’s too good for him generally and Joe is still too worried about his past and that he’ll hurt Joyce.
Yeah I think Walky would be DESTROYED. He already sees himself as a boy toy for Dorothy’s whims, basically with her only for her enjoyment (even if she is trying to not present this image), and if he finds out she was just doing it with Joyce anyway? He will feel like even less of a Partner and even more of just a toy, and not even the most exciting one in Dorothy’s toybox apparently.
That……. seems a bit strong.
That’s a lot stronger than I would go. I think he’d likely think she only got back together with him as part of her denial of bisexuality and of being into Joyce.
So Joe and Walky both get to Dorothy’s room at the same time. They find Joyce and Dorothy nekkid and goin’ at it. Then a wild Becky appears….
I want to see Mary finding out.
Mary would probably say, “I knew it.”
Yeah, she already thinks Dorothy is a hellbound godless liberal, I don’t think her being bisexual would move the needle much
I thought we were talking about Mary finding out that Joyce made this proposal, which is why the linked comic is about how Mary definitely thinks Joyce is a heathen who does all kinds of sin.
I feel like she’d have no reaction at all to Dorothy, because they barely know each other. https://www.dumbingofage.com/tag/dorothy+mary/ Currently there are 20 strips tagged with both their names, and they’ve spoken directly to each other on two occasions, both with Joyce also present. But for sure, she would be unsurprised by anything hinky an atheist might get up to.
Yeah!
Oh you mean like learning of this event.
Dorothy! Chill out, relax a little! It sounds like Marlon Brando in Reflections in a Golden Eye
What if Dorothy says “we’ll talk about it in your room” and that’s when Dorothy will tell her that she can’t because she has a crush on her?
Either way, many things will be found out.
Dorothy bout to explode
AHHHHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! I Love this strip. BTW are we past her deadline to respond to Yale yet? I forget how time passes in this strip. has it just been like a week or something? I ask because I think when she goes too far, and Dorothy will mess this up, the instant reaction is to run far away.
This could be the case. But will she will able to be happy leaving Joyce? They both will be really sad.
Yeeessssss, a good bit of drama for the series, but then Joyce, hurt, broken, will reach out. And like any Romcom movie, Dorothy will drop everything in her life, sacrifice her dreams all to race towards Joyce’s aid. *probably while Don’t stop Believing will be playing lol.
Joyce all holding a boombox like John Cusack, but it’s “Can’t Get Past The Evidence” by 4Him.
Dina teleports the whole 800 miles to hit Stop.
It’s not clear about the deadline. My assumption has been that she was accepted for this semester and it’s far too late now, but that’s never been explicitly confirmed.
She says she’s already not replied, but it theoretically could be for next year and she could have time. I doubt it though.
OOOOooooOOO I hope it’s still an option of more drama!!
They’re still early in the Spring semester. That deadline to confirm with Yale would be March-April. So she’s good so far. (although i’m thinking she’s already confirmed with them she’s declining)
She’s only said she didn’t respond.
But she also applied last semester and got her acceptance letter over the timeskip, so my take is that she got accepted for this semester and she didn’t go.
There have also been a few comments that she’s here now because of her decision, though nothing definitive.
As far as I’m aware, the real Yale only accepts new students for the Fall semester for both first-year and transfers (somewhat unclear which her app is, as she said they “reconsidered” her application, but then corrected to saying she “resubmitted” her application–seemingly first-year though, since she already heard back and transfer apps don’t hear back until May, I think).
Yale’s deadline for first-year applicants to accept is May 1. But then, this is fictional Yale so who knows.
(Pretty sure real Yale only notifies applicants via the admissions portal, not a mailed letter, so there’s already reason to believe fictional Yale doesn’t follow the same procedures)
Yeah, it seems like the idea is that if she had accepted, she would be there now, but that really doesn’t make sense for universities. I’ll go with it for story purposes, but I wouldn’t mind the terms spelled out a bit more since it does seem to be such an unusual situation.
[Your preferred way of addressment], I present to you “THE” CONFLICT OF THE BOOK!
The ‘the’ in quotes signifies that it is not the only one.
Now Dorothy this is where you reassure her to trust in her partner to help her through it.
Alternatively…
Much as I’d like to see this “extremely normal heterosexual activity” with Dorothy and Joyce, I also hope we get to see how the protests Jocelyn has been at went. Hopefully not too badly.
Yeah, as a narrative element it adds a lot of background tension to this, and if I only think about it as a narrative element I can stave off the crushing despair of having to think about how dire the real world counterpart has become in the buffer between these strips being written and their publication
Joyce getting her first orgasm from a second person while her sister is being arrested or worse is just the one two punch Willis would kill to hit us with.
thankfully I don’t have a fear of Apollo’s dodge-ball because the comic is already buffered into next year, so I can say this and not cause it to happen.
No, see, now you’ve convinced me something like that is extremely likely on account of Willis likes to do clever structural callbacks to the Walkyverse and [Majorest Spoilers] Walkyverse Joyce and Walky lost their virginities to each other over a series of split pages while in the other halves of the split all their friends were being brutalized and killed by simultaneous invasions of the comic’s biggest villains. So like, either Joyce with Dorothy or Joyce with Joe feels likely to coincide with some truly world shattering awfulness simultaneously happening to different characters in a different location.
I’m faaaairly sure Jocelyne has plot armor right now, and will continue to have that armor until the world is a less terrifying place for all of us.
This is my hope, anyway. But Willis did bring her back into the story for a reason, so there’s gonna be SOME drama for sure.
Suddenly thinking about the show The Secret Life of the American Teenager (which was terrible and hilarious) where Grace had sex for the first time and her dad died in a plane crash.
Statistically speaking, every time a person is experiencing their ‘little death,’ someone else in the world is experiencing their actual death. :O
Usually not your own dad tho.
I keep telling people that the likely absolute worst case scenario in the comic is she gets pepper sprayed, spends the night in jail, and has a broken arm. Anything further would get too dark for the comic and I don’t expect more than an uneventful night in jail before she gets out. The other stuff is simply worst case scenario.
If we were talking about a trans protestor in real world 2025 I’d be a lot more worried about her but Willis has talked in the past about not wanting to make things too dark because it would impact the characters permanently.
Jesus fuck, I started reading this comment while scrolling up, so out of context, and I thought you were talking about Dorothy for the first paragraph, like “How are we building to this scenario?????”
Anyway. Jocelyne. Yes.
I also imagine that they don’t want to write that specific thing into this comic because the world is terrifying enough right now.
It’s also worth remembering that while all that and worse can and has happened, the vast majority of student protestors make it home without incident.
ahahahah pushing all the buttons at once, Joyce XD
Yes Dorothy, help your dear friend in doing the laundry…
Look, do I know what the “ethical” thing to do would be, sure, but… like….if my college crush came up to me said, please teach me how to sex, I would probably also consider something stupid and reckless. Being around a crush does have that way of making you 35% dumber.
In my experience 35% is very generous
“I’m having a bisexuality crisis surrounding you and need to find a way out of this conversation.”
“Great! You can help me figure out how to have sex with Joe instead!”
we just keep winning
HER SHIELDS CAN’T REPEL AWKWARD OF THAT MAGNITUDE!!!
….. nice.
Smooth Jazz starts playing
God, Willis, you’re such a tease.
He knows.
Just two girls, biting their bottom lips, talking about music, thinking about Joyce’s girly parts, about to go make some mac’n’cheese by the package directions.
Dorothy’s face in panel 5 is ever so much better than Dorothy’s face in panel 4, even though they are identical.
They are not, there’s actually three changes I noticed, biggest being the eyebrow has vanished
Eyebrows are mythical and don’t actually exist.
Unlike some other bits of anatomy, eyebrows do exist in DoA, but they’re only loosely attached to faces and can rise above someone’s actual head and hover or simply vanish entirely.
The kill bill sirens just started going off in my head
The first two panels are a call back to Rich Mullins Kraft Mac n Cheese night. And maybe Dorothy’s motivations weren’t entirely platonic when she was making the mixtape, but there’s nothing necessarily romantic about making a mixtape.
Also, she even offered to show her new music. It would have been a better idea, non-boundary crossing, than what she ended up taking the initiative doing. But non-mistake-making Dorothy would be boring. Just thinking of the context for why Dorothy’s mood was so low before deciding they’d do laundry.
Walky asked her for advice regarding sex with Lucy. plus ça change…
Boundary crossing? Which boundary? There’s ambiguity here
I’ve asked this before when someone says “character A is crossing a boundary” and never get an answer as to ~which~ boundary is being crossed.
Fingers crossed for you!
My experience has often been similar. Either I get no answer or the other person gets defensive and acts like I just should intuitively know and am willfully harming them.
Joyce says stop it with the sex stuff, next time Dorothy sees her she informs her she’s showing her how to masturbate.
Not in the mood to be trolled.
Asking for clarification is not trolling, thank you for clarifying.
Gosh, what’s it gonna do to Joyce when she learns both of her female best friends in her entire life had feelings for her?
“If I had a nickel for every time this had happened, I’d have two nickels! Which isn’t a lot. But still, weird that it happened twice!”
More seriously: if Joyce is, despite this strip and many others, completely straight, then I imagine she’ll eventually process this the same way she processed it when Joe called her a hot chick.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2022/comic/book-13/01-bring-me-to-life-drawing/bimonthly/
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2022/comic/book-13/01-bring-me-to-life-drawing/disparate/
(Her concerns about them not being a convincing couple are largely centered around the idea that no one could possibly think such a beautiful girl would be interested in her.)
Like, I do think this hypothetical straight Joyce would eventually take it as a huge compliment that Dorothy had a crush on her.
Word-of-Willis is that orientations carry over from It’s Walky! so I think Joyce is definitely not going to be hetero.
Whether she has an interest in Dorothy remains to be seen (but I think that’s likely tbh!)
Have I forgotten a non-hetero bit for Joyce from the Walkyverse?
Seconded. Did I miss a bit in the Walkyverse timeline??? Uhm Danny, joe, walky… did she do a non-hetero bit while Anti-Joyce?? Did her looking up to Sal get taken as being bi?? I’m not angry I just legit don’t remember!
I think Willis has basically said that Anti-Joyce’s interest in women was, at the time, conceived as being part of her being evil, but also even at the time they found Joyce’s protest that Anti-Joyce was nothing like her unconvincing.
There’s an Anti-Joyce? What? Who was this evil, lesbian Joyce? I bet Becky wishes she were in DoA.
I’m amused at the idea of an evil, lesbian Joyce whose evil includes homophobia. Watch out, ladies! She’ll rock your world and then immediately call you a slur.
She wasn’t a lesbian, just a Depraved Bisexual trope. But again: Willis has basically canonized the interest she expressed in women as like… yeah I kinda intended it to be performative but also Joyce was definitely being less than honest in her insistence that Anti-Joyce was nothing like her, etc
So it is fair to take Willis at their word and combine this with other statements to assert that Joyce being bi is already canon.
I dislike my own phrasing.
What I meant was that Anti-Joyce’s interest in women was like, one strip in the storyline, an offhanded remark, and definitely meant to be Depraved Bisexual.
What I did not mean: “she wasn’t a lesbian, just bi”
orz
That’s probably why I didn’t remember it. I remember Anti-Joyce, but in terms of the much more obvious interest she showed in guys.
Frankly you could sub in “totally uninterested in Dorothy”, too. What I meant was, if Joyce has no interest in Dorothy at all, I still can’t imagine her reacting to this ultimately in any way apart from, “Wow! One of my favorite girls, and also one of the hottest most wonderful girls on campus, thinks I’m hot!” and being mega flattered.
Where do you get the impression Joyce’s straight, Li? It’s kinda obvious she’s bisexual and into Dorothy, but more closeted than her.
Maybe you misread Li’s comment? The said, “if Joyce is, despite this strip and many others, completely straight.” That’s not them saying they think Joyce is straight. That’s going, “Okay, working within the conditions of this imagined scenario…”
Thank you, Yumi.
That’s my read of Joyce’s entire deal here – I think frankly that either Joyce is oblivious to Dorothy’s demeanor here or she’s (keeping in mind what happened with Becky) really desperately hoping that she’s not seeing what she’s seeing.
If she’s currently afraid Dorothy might want to kiss her, this is a very unusual way of handling that.
Like, power move honestly. Legendary.
Joyce. Joyce.
Joe is SO experienced and SO SO invested in her having a good time and SO SO SO charmed by her whole deal.
Joyce just wantsta get hands with Dorothy.
“Joe is SO experienced”
I think it’s this part, actually. She’s had the idea ingrained in her (as have most people raised on the femme side of the spectrum) that there’s some kind of value judgment in how skilled she is at sex. Whether or not she acts, looks, and fake-gasps like a pornstar, etc. She’s worried that Joe’s experience will make sex with her boring or clunky, or that bad sex means bad relationship.
I really don’t think she’s noticed her feelings for Dorothy yet.
And then there’s the other side of the coin, that a woman being too skilled at sex could make her look like a slut. Which is a bad thing for some reason. Making it one of those lose/lose scenarios.
Well. My eyebrows might have hit my hairline. but I do fully get whats happening here on Joyces end. Joe being experienced MAKES her nervous. You want to be good at things and not embarrass yourself.
However. Oh dear. Oh boy. Whuhoh.
I think Dorothy will help Joyce and show her everything she knows. Dorothy can’t say no to Joyce and now she’s too confused and horny for be capable of care about the consequences. No doubt she will regret everything after. Let’s see if this is what will happen.
JOYCE THIS ISN’T HELPING
This is, almost beat for beat, what happened with my roommate in college and her boyfriend and best friend. TLDR things did not go well for IRL Dorothy, and she was effectively strung along as an easy FWB for two years before being unceremoniously dumped at a big christmas party during graduation year.
Almost 9 years later and Joyce/Joe are married, just had their first kid, and Dorothy analogue from what I’ve heard lives nearby and sometimes crashes at their place so I don’t actually know if they ever broke out of that toxic relationship.
Establish clear boundaries and respect yourself, kids!
Dumbing of Age: Extremely Normal, Extremely Heterosexual Activity™
Is that the sequel to Paranormal Activity? I don’t think I’m going to watch it.
Very normal. Extremely heterosexual. Wow.
So that conversation about cheating earlier.
That.
THAT is why I started reading this comics 15 years ago. It’s the end of sooooo many storylines. It’s going to shatter the fabric of the dumbiverse head-alien-style.
Bless you, Willis!!!
So conflicted
If this gets rid of Joe/Joyce, I’ll be happy
Dorothy: okay, this would be really bad, if I had feelings for Joyce WHICH I DONT SO ITS FINE JUST HELPING MY BEST FRIEND FIND HER CLITORIS
24 minutes later, Joyce is bottomless and Dorothy’s inspecting her crotch with a magnifying Glass. “Okay, where the hell is it? Your clitoris should be right here *poke*, but it’s completely blank.” “Are you sure? Check the diagram again.”
Either Joyce is in on this and deliberately trying to make this awkward, or she’s planning something. OR, judging from her expression in the final panel, she’s being open and honest about her feelings. All of these are difficult for Dorothy.
THEY’RE SO FUCKING COOKED AAAAAAAAAAAAAA
“Can you stay with me, but keep one eye covered meanwhile?”
“Uhhh, okayyy…which one of you am I not watching?”
“Uhhh…”
This just keeps getting better and better. Poor Dorothy is having some serious bi panic going on.
I feel like is Dorothy just runs this by both Walky and Joe, they could all be okay with it and now it’s no longer cheating. It’s just a little quasi-open-rel bi petting that everyone involved has consented to at least this once.
That would really be the sensible – and boring – thing to do.
Fortunately for us, Dorothy has way too much guilt and fear inside her body to do anything like “communicate her desires openly to people who may reject her”.
How about running it by Joyce first?
Because Joyce is running it by Dorothy right now in this strip.
Well fair, but I think she should clear the air about her own feelings before taking a step like this.
And then preferably Joyce should talk to Joe about it, rather than Dorothy, since he’s her boyfriend, not Dorothy’s.
And Joyce has her first time sooner than planned. Suprise.
It’s going to be a reverse of when they were walking to the laundry room– they’ll be going to Joyce’s room and bump into someone and Dorothy will be the one who shouts, “We’re not sneaking off to do any hanky-panky things together!”
Last panel: “Welp, I’m off to watch that one sketch in Monty Python’s The Meaning of Life“.
The smart thing would be to go chat with Joyce’s sister. Right nearby. Teased in previous comics. One who could give them both good advice.
So that’s unlikely.
Jocelyne: “… Fuck.”
Dorothy: “I know, it’s some hard advice to ask for.”
Jocelyne: “It really wasn’t.”
Okay Dorothy, here you are. You’ve got 3 options:
1. Politely inform Joyce that you are bisexual (Joyce will immediately reject having sex with you)
2. Have sex with Joyce under the guise of totally-heterosexual-gal-pal-stuff (Joyce will feel incredibly betrayed and used if she finds out you’re bi later)
3. Run. Run like the wind. Avoid Joyce, avoid Joe, and hope that mid sex with your eggy boyfriend will quench your lust for women.
There is an absolutely fascinating implication here that Joyce will be perfectly fine having had sex with Dorothy if she believes that both of them are straight.
Also “hope that mid sex with your eggy boyfriend will quench your lust for women” IS WILD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I APPLAUD YOU!!!! COOKING
I’d say he’s more of a twink boyfriend.
Have you ever actually seen a twink? ‘Cause Joe ain’t a twink.
Cmon, I used to make mix CDs for my friends all the time…
I do want to see the tracklist, though, that’s important in determining whether it’s platonic.
Very normal? Yes. Extremely heterosexual? No, not in this context
dorothy making playlists for your friends IS normal
I swear, Becky’s ears have to be perked.
You don’t need Dorothy’s help with that, Joyce. I promise you there’s a million videos available online with that exact same premise.
Conceivably, you might need Dorothy’s help after.
Today on Dumbing of Age: Things just can’t get any more heterosexual!
On a more serious note, I really don’t think Joyce is asking Dorothy to have sex with her here, (although Dorothy may be taking it that way). I suspect she has in mind more of an in-depth conversation, possibly with visual aids. I admit I may be wrong, however.
Absolutely – Joyce, as far as she herself knows, is heterosexual.
But she also doesn’t have a very good idea of what normal sexual boundaries between two normal non-lesbian girls look like. So she’ll probably do whatever Dorothy tells her to!
Meaning that Joyce right here is basically a big fragrant blueberry pie cooling on the windowsill, and Dorothy must decide whether or not to indulge in her sexual attraction to Joyce, depending on how much of a scumbag she feels like she can be.
The operative wording is “show me what to do”. That’s what I’m stuck on.
She just needs Joyce to wear an inconspicuous earpiece so she can tell Joyce what to do, in real time!
Pffff
Gosh dang it V98, both comments giving me a giggle to match the strip
Think I saw this in Steve Martin’s version of Cyrano”.
I admit the phrasing there is weird, but I just don’t see Joyce meaning it literally. If nothing else, Dorothy lacks some of the relevant equipment for that. Hence my suggestion of visual aids.
My personal Heterosexual Explanation For This is something like the Sexy Getting-Ready Song from My Crazy Ex-Girlfriend.
https://youtu.be/ky-BYK-f154?si=hqxICyWRB3oxbL2u
Like maybe Joyce wants help with preparation??? Tips?
But it’s “Show me what to do” in the context of “I am GOING to have sex with Joe”.
I suspect that Joyce, much like a previous time she asked Dorothy about sex, is expecting something in a list format or perhaps a powerpoint lecture rather than a practical demonstration.
No one is denying or forgetting that part.
It’s still (deliberately) weird phrasing.
Yep, Joyce isn’t asking Dorothy to have sex with her. Just normal, heterosexual mutual masterbation with a gal pal, like they’ve done before.
For once, Joe is actually a better expert (in his own sexuality and desires) than Dorothy.
Will Dorothy not try to coach Joyce and leave well-enough alone? What a question. We still have a plot to run.
Dorothy has never been nearly as put together as she thought or as self-aware, which is not a criticism. Her best successes in the comic are when she realizes she needs to change.
You know, at this point it might just be worth it to ask Joe his general opinion on polyamory…
I think Joe could be convinced, but Dorothy would never want to do anything like that with Joe.
She doesn’t have to. Most poly configurations aren’t “everyone just gets in a big fuck pile”.
I could imagine myself saying “no, I’m not okay with you going out with this person” if it’s someone I really really don’t like.
Maybe, but I also think Dorothy has already gotten over that particular hurdle. After her last conversation with Joe, I think they’re probably closer to being friends than they’ve ever been before.
YOU ARE COOKING!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU ARE ON FIRE!!!!!!!!!!! YOU ARE A MADLAD~!!!!!!!!!!! YOU ARE A LEGEND OF OUR TIME!!!! DAYUM!!MM!MM!M!MM!M!M!MM!M!
many heterosexual
such straight
wow
Porno or Farce!
The possibilities are endless!
Including the possibility of porno and/i farce.
My analysis brain no longer works with these two, I’m just all giggles at Dorothy struggling with her feelings
“of music I like and I think you might also like”
What is she, productivity incarnate?! But only for Joyce?!!
*Dang, how far is going with Joe’s girlfriend still doing him a favour*
*Internal Danny of judgement intensifies*
omfg, what are they, comic book characters?
Webcomic. No Comics Code here
Dotty. Since this is not a cuckold porno the appropriate answer is “Joe will teach you”.
SHOW ME HOW TO SEX DOROTHY
Joyce says, “Show me how to sex, Dorothy.”
Dorothy hears, “Show me how to sex Dorothy.”