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well at least she admitted she’s not okay?
honestly I unironically want them to hug right now in a platonic way, Dorothy could really use it T^T
Yes, Becky is being helpful. So nice to see it.
I wish this fact was born of a less tragic origin.
Becky’s mother didn’t die from cancer. And I can’t say for certain, but that fact may be quite prominent in Becky’s mind now.
Which is funny because Becky is being genuinely concerned but Dorothy is concealing the fact that Becky’s past jealousy for Dorothy has been 100% justified by recent revelations.
Oh, so you’re fine with Joyce and Dotty having an affair, but not with Becky cheating on Dina. That makes sense.
Wait … that actually makes sense. Joe and Walky would be sad, but likely unsurprised. Dina would disembowel Dorothy and line the bed with her guts.
O_O??
Seconded
Yeah, on a second reading this comment sounds absolutely insane. I apologize. I think what happened here is for some reason my mind zeroed in on platonic as the load bearing word in that sentence. I don’t really know. I tend write these comments right before bed when I am very tied and while my comments somehow make sense to me in the moment, I often look back and find they are as strange or incipherable as an alcoholic Martian. Maybe I should switch to commenting in the morning.
hey I get that
heck Needfuldoer around here has some very solid advice:
“Coffee then comment. Coffee THEN comment.”
no you were right to say what you said
What.
Since everyone is simply confused, I’ll say it outright: How in the heck is it cheating to give someone a HUG
I swear this comments section is a multiversal nexus. NGPZ didn’t say ANYTHING about being okay or not okay with anyone cheating on anyone else. Like, I’m not even sure what small crumb of “proof” you even gleaned from this comment that made you think they did??
Avoid reading any comment starting with “Oh, so…” Better that way.
But then I miss out on the multiverse.
You are mostly right. NPGZ did not say anything about being ok with cheating today, but was happy to see them together (and hey, I’m not really judging everybody has their ships) in the comments of previous strips these past weeks. I meant the first sentence as a light hearted set up to the joke about Dina’s velociraptor-like ferocity when angered, but I continuously overestimate my ability to express jovial sarcasm in text and I wrote this whole comment late at night when my brain was fried, so it probably did come across as little mean and ungrounded in any physical reality. I apologize for that.
yeah that’s good intention right there
we’re getting less than one Dina appearance this entire storyline, and I think I’m already starting to suffer from withdrawal symptoms T-T
Makes sense, everyone fucks up the tone in text communications sometimes! ty for the explanation
hey no worries we’ll get that too
just gotta wait for someone in the strip to pull the Drama Tag…
Multiverse? Not just one reality but all of them?? Ugh. 1/5 stars. No recoms.
What the fuck.
Walky would be sad that he didn’t get to watch. Joe would be initially disappointed, then sad that he didn’t get to watch. Dorothy and Walky are at this point in a friends with benefits situation, even if that’s not been verbally defined. They’re not ‘dating’ and there’s been no agreement or even implication of exclusivity. Joe and Joyce are in an implied exclusive dating arrangement, but Joe is still fundamentally who he is, and he’s absolutely going to find it hot once he gets over the disappointment of Joyce going outside that arrangement.
Dina’s reaction is harder to predict, but I’d seriously doubt violence would be involved. And it might involve her finding it disappointing that she wasn’t consulted first and given the opportunity to observe for purposes of study. In other words, she’d be sad that she didn’t get to watch, among other feelings.
(Or that could be my personal experience talking, when a college girlfriend hooked up with a friend’s girlfriend one time and didn’t invite us, my friend and I were mildly annoyed at not being invited that time. They made it up to us later. And yes, we still occasionally share sex partners 30+ years later, we’ve both mostly been involved with bi women, our current long term partners are bi.)
Exclusivity has definitely been implied with Dorothy and Walky. For example: https://www.dumbingofage.com/2025/comic/book-15/03-me-and-who-you-say-i-was-yesterday/being-confused/
Joyce has outright stated she is in a monogamous relationship:
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2024/comic/book-14/03-trystin-in-the-wind/aboutchange/
Things that one might find hot in general are likely to feel much less hot when it involves being cheated on. Unless that’s part of the appeal.
Pretty sure Joe would be devastated if Joyce cheated on him.
The first step in fixing a problem is admitting you have a problem. And as the proverb states the journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
“So you ADMIT IT! We ARE mortal enemies!” Becky high-fives herself.
honestly I think their one sided rivalry is great, but maaaybe Dotty needs to talk with someone, even if it’s Becky. or at least some hugs, because she’s losing it. ~<3
Yeah, she definitely does. I don’t think anyone disagrees she needs to talk to someone.
Leslie is my first thought.
The Beckster’s probably putting aside her comedic rivalry stance. She can see Dotty’s in crisis. And Dotty knows a thing or three about being in crisis.
I could see Becky kind of going back to it at the end of the conversation. I feel like that’s a common move for her– willing to get into feelings territory, then when it’s about done, bring in a joke to reset things to “normal.” Sincere conversation about it here, than at the end some sort of “I was right/beat you to figuring it out/*self-five for calling it*” thing.
to be fair, good natured ribbing is a better attitude than how some people deal with issues. ~<3
Erk. Last sentence shoulda been “And Becky knows a thing or three about being in crisis.”
Yeah shes only the person who WOULD understand
From the tone of Becky’s response, it seems like she would’ve actually been willing to talk to her about her emotions in a mature way. At the same time, the first person (Danny) she (Dorothy) tried to talk to about how she was feeling, used it as an opportunity to dunk on her. So, I understand why she might be apprehensive about discussing this.
Here’s hoping dotty changes her mind, and this is all resolved in an emotionally mature manner.
Becky’s treated her terribly, apparently constantly insulting her and deliberately leaving her skanky filthy laundry out just to annoy her. So it’s nice to see Becky being genuine here and admitting she’s the last person Dorothy should talk to.
Look, I’m just impressed that Becky can wake up in the middle of the night and immediately have a coherent conversation.
I’d say that Becky has had reason to get conditioned to immediately jump to alertness when waking up to something unexpected.
Some of us can do that without even waking up first
That’s not a fair assessment. Dorothy has told Becky about things in confidence in the past and Becky has kept that confidence. Dorothy is capable of opening up to her sometimes, but this topic is a sensitive one between the two of them, for obvious reasons.
“That’s not a fair assessment” is essentially the only way Vanessa talks about Becky.
Becky having laundry in a pile is really driving some posters up the wall.
It’s not about having a laundry pile. It’s about her deliberately making a pile of laundry and drawing attention to it because she knew it would annoy Dorothy. It’s about Becky tossing a cup on the floor and saying “Now you have to pick up my trash.”
It’s friendly ribbing that is, I think, received that way. But the bulk of their interactions have been playfully combative on Becky’s part, so they don’t have a deep enough friendship to have this particular conversation. Like. This is actually fine, no one’s the asshole here, it’s just a tough time for Dorothy and she has to chew through a few dark nights of the soul to digest it. She’ll be okay.
”Friendly ribbing”? Becky started mocking Dorothy the moment they met, and has been consistently horrible ever since.
I’m not too fussed with either side of this..
But, I probably would put out there that they were never really on close/friendly enough terms for Becky’s behavior to really land as “playful.”
Yeah, I don’t think Becky’s approach is actually cruel or whatever, but a bit that one party can’t opt out of– and it has seemed like Dorothy would like if it wasn’t so constant at times– is likely annoying at times, at least. If Dorothy gave it back, it might seem less “just mean” at times.
I guess it’s more about how we think she receives it right? Does Dotty actually enjoy or feel gracious about this “frenemies” bit, or does she think pretending not to be annoyed or hurt is the right thing to do because Becky has been through so much?
I mean she doesn’t pretend we know she doesn’t actually cares about it.
And it isn’t just the laundry, it’s the whole “WE hate each other and I’M fine with that! Go on hating me Dotty!
:)” From my experience, the one thing worse than someone going out of their way to be mean to you is them claiming that that’s because you were provoking them on purpose.
That is not a thing that she did. Stop making stuff up to be mad at.
What?
Respect the floordrobe.
First time I’ve seen that term. I’m regretting it already.
Becky’s laundry pile is sexually liberated?
“Constantly insulting” her? Can you cite some evidence of that? Because I’ve been doing a dive of the archives for “becky+dorothy”, and while there’s a lot of “We’re totally arch-rivals” blather, from beginning to end, she almost never actually indulges in real insults. The closest I found was her saying, “You’re going to take this as an insult, but you’re a terrible politician.”
There’s also that Becky is actually too close to the situation, having gone through it herself. Also, if Dorothy really had a talk with Becky about it, the fully open kind she needs right now, it would also involve discussing her and Joyce’s last conversation and that might just break Becky’s soul.
It’s also…I mean, Becky didn’t *exactly* go through it herself, because Joyce didn’t reject Dorothy, Dorothy rejected *Joyce*. Which means talking to it about Becky involves telling her “Hey, so, remember how you had a crush on Joyce but had to let it go because she’s straight? Well, she’s not straight for *me* but I let it go anyway!”
I suspect Becky’d take it better than one might think, but it’s still a very fraught conversation to strike up.
Yup.
Not the sort of thing to have in the middle of the night when at least one of the participants is starting from a position of “just this side of breaking utterly.”
I wonder if Dorothy, as wrought up as she is, is saving Becky’s feelings.
Nah, I’m Team Danny on that conversation. She deserved a dunk or two there. My least favorite Dorothy moment ever is that “hands off me” like he was some perv stranger touching her inappropriately and not (a) someone she, in universe, was in a serious relationship with half a year ago and (b) literally just mirroring the way she touched him in the flashback. Plus, as much as I like Dorothy for a lot of other things, she deserves a dunk or two for how she handled said break-up (and how fast she then got with Walky).
In retrospect: extra funny that she broke up with Danny because she knew she’d be moving on to Yale and that mattered more than the relationship and then cancelled going to Yale to be in a relationship (which she wasn’t aware of yet) with Joyce
I mean there’s more to it than just Joyce. Dorothy is absolutely wrestling with more aspects of her identity than just her sexuality and it feels like even without unrecognized sapphic attraction she would have come to the same conclusion regarding her presidential ambitions
It’s so weird to me that people think there’s a period of time after a relationship where it’s like… rude or inappropriate to get with another person. I’ll never understand that.
There are a couple things going on there. At the core is the idea that it takes a certain amount of time to decide you want to be in a relationship with someone. Thus, if you immediately start up with someone else, you either were already looking that way when you were still in your previous relationship, or you’re having a (probably ill-advised) rebound relationship. The other part of it is that, having gone through a relationship and breakup, it is wise to take some time to figure out what went wrong, how to avoid that in the future, and (most importantly) who you are *now* when you’re not in a relationship (as opposed to who you were *before* going into your now-former relationship). YMMV, of course.
I’m not saying there aren’t people who relationship-hop at the expense of their own mental and emotional wellbeing, that should definitely be unpacked.
IDK, I just think people relationship-police each other more than is sensible or necessary. If my partner is crushing on someone and wants to start a relationship then they should break up with me (if we’re monogamous, which we wouldn’t be but for the sake of argument). Once we’re broken up, they can hop into whatever they want.
I don’t think it makes them a bad person, but some people seem to and that just confuses me.
Yeah, there are a number of popular songs to that effect, and it kinda bothers me when I hear them. It’s totally fine to have your emotions to someone you were with moving on quickly, of course, and to them developing feelings and then ending things… but I don’t think they’ve done anything objectively wrong or worthy of being attacked over or whatever.
There are more nuanced takes. For instance, there’s usually a difference depending on whether the person who is rushing into a new relationship is the dump-er or the dump-ee (or if it was a genuinely mutual break-up).
Dump-er is generally going to be viewed as being inconsiderate of their former partner’s feelings, and yes, suspicions will be raised about whether or not you were already cheating on them, at least emotionally, before breaking things off.
Dump-ee, on the other hand, is going to be viewed more sympathetically, but a lot of people will be concerned that you’re just going on a rebound relationship (which is fine, so long as your rebound partner is aware of the situation).
Since no one ever believes that a break-up was mutual, of course, then it will always be considered suspicious if either of you ever dates again. (Yes, I’m acknowledging that a lot of people are just way too damned invested in other people’s love lives… BOOSTER & AMBER.)
I think in Dorothy specific case is that she broke up with Danny because she didn’t want a relationship getting in the way of her plans to go to Yale and then just a few days later started dating Walky.
And I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that. She’s allowed to: change her mind, feel different when it’s a guy she likes more, have a fling, or just outright lie to Danny about why their relationship was ending (I don’t think she lied, I just don’t see any issue with it).
My confusion wasn’t about what she had done, it was about why she “deserved a dunk or two” for it when she didn’t do anything wrong in that case.
She said “hands off me” BECAUSE Danny was mirroring of her actions in the flashback & making fun of her. It’s essentially a “dude stop it I actually want to talk to you about something”. Idk where you’re getting the pervert angle from at all… But either way, it’s literally always fine to tell people not to touch you, no matter how close you were or currently are : )
This!!!
Yeah. I mean, Danny didn’t know what precisely she was wrestling with, so while his comments about the thirst pics and dealing with same-sex attraction while in a straight-presenting relationship were devastating, but not in a way he had a way of recognizing at the time
If Dorothy’s feelings for Joyce were 100% unrequited, I think Becky would be a good person to talk to. But with Joyce seemingly also maybe kinda having a thing for Dorothy, I think she’d feel very guilty revealing this to Becky.
Yeah, at the very least it’s not just her story to tell.
I was also thinking Dorothy didn’t want to talk to Becky about having a crush on Becky’s ex-crush. Anyone else would be okay, but not Becky.
Yeah, but one could interpret that as Dorothy not wanting understanding. She may want to stew on it a while and punish herself for wanting to blow up Joyce and Joe’s relationship. She knows how badly it would go: Dorothy kisses Joyce and a certain degree of sexy time ensues. Joyce realizes she’s cheating on Joe and freaks out. She realizes she’s having a same-sex attraction AND that she’s doing exactly what everyone thought Joe would do: bang a hot girl at the first opportunity. The fact that Joe had been a perfect gentleman and patiently waited for Joyce to make moves would make it all the worse. Joe would arrive all innocent smiles to take her to the malt shop for a chocolate phosphate before the church social, congratulating himself for doing the right thing and being a mature caring adult instead of a shallow fuckboy. He’d find Joyce and Dorothy half-dressed, reeking of sex and guilt and he’d be destroyed.
I can imagine Dorothy spilling everything to Becky and comparing notes. If they added tequila to the conversation they might well decide that Joyce led them both on with her sunny wholesome demeanor and adorable naiveté and rockin’ boobs and do something really stupid. Maybe on Patron.
Sometimes you still have to process and sometimes you need someone with a different or a specific perspective.
I actually think Becky would probably be able to rise to the occasion here, but also I would never in Dorothy’s circumstances confess to her specifically.
Literally exactly this. I actually think Becky might be mature enough to have this conversation, but I also don’t think Dorothy would ever inflict it on her.
For as out there as Becky can be, I’m pretty sure she could be serious if Dorothy wanted to talk about it.
In general, yes. Around the *specific* topic of lesbian urges for Joyce? May be more weird about it.
And especially Dorothy having those feelings for Joyce.
Even more so if Joyce’s signal of reciprocation came up.
Tell me I’m okay, Becky
Tell me please that’s all you have to do
Just one little okay
And you’ll be on your way!
Say the line Becky!
Tell me I’m okaaaaaaayyyyyyyy!
Am I okay???
(Underrated song from an underrated show)
The one person who genuinely understands exactly how you’re feeling? Nah, that’d be potentially productive. Gotta sabotage yourself by wallowing some more!
I think most people would be extremely hesitant to bear their deepest secrets out to their abrasive roommate who’s been nursing a grudge for months in part because of the thing your secret is about!
Also it might be a huge upsetting moment for Becky – who gave up on pining after Joyce mostly due Joyce’s perceived straightness. Dorothy’s almost-cheating with Joyce would shatter so many things for Becky that it would feel incredibly cruel to complain to her of all people.
“Nursing a grudge” lol. Lmao.
It’s not the most nuanced or accurate description of their dynamic but it seemed close enough for my purposes, which is much more concerned with how Dorothy perceives the matter.
I would probably call it a sore spot rather than a grudge on further deliberation, but I stand by my original statement as sufficient for purpose.
Then I stand by my lol and lmao.
Becky has been a awful towards Dorothy from the get-go. Her very first reaction to Dorothy trying to say hello was to mock her. Becky is an absolute brat.
You keep saying “she’s been awful to her from the get go” and I really don’t know what you are talking about, all of Becky “nemesis” are just very mild unserious antagonism that Dorothy knows doesn’t mean anything.
Eh, the antagonism being a bit doesn’t make it meaningless.
It’s not serious bullying and Becky has shown she won’t keep it up if she thinks Dorothy is actually hurting, but it doesn’t come from nothing.
I mean, those factors really does make it meaningless regardless of where they come from.
It doesn’t mean Becky is a bad person or anything, but it does still have meaning about her character and her relationship with Dorothy.
The one person who has viewed you as competition for affection from the same person that is causing you feels and actively dismissed you time and time again….
Consider their historical interactions have typically involved Becky being
A: and immature little shit
B: transparently jealous of Dorothy and Joyce’s friendship
Or C: a combination of the two
Yeah Becky would probably take it seriously and rise to the occasion to provide Dorothy with some kind of comfort or advise, but Dorothy has no reason to think she would. Which seems to be something Becky recognizes considering the last panel
The one person who might be incandescently angry that some other girl with feelings for Joyce got that shit requited.
Becky would probably be too in her own head about it. I think she’s suspected there’s been more than platonic feelings between Joyce and Dorothy.
Seriously, in what world of interactions between Becky and Dorothy would Dorothy think that a) it’d be productive to bare her soul to Becky and b) that Becky wouldn’t behave spitefully towards her, as she’s done many times in the past?
Never ceases to amaze me, the wild-ass takes people get.
Seems like you, and a whole bunch of others in these comments, have forgotten how badly Becky treated Dorothy for quite some time, mainly due to Dorothy’s friendship with Joyce. So I really can’t blame Dorothy for not wanting to tell Becky about her feelings for Joyce after all that.
Okay, seriously, can you point to… 3 examples in the archives of Becky treating Dorothy ‘badly’? Not just silly, “Aha! I have an arch-rival!” stuff, but rather, actual insults, offensive conduct, or other instances of real malice?
Dotty, are you okay? Can you tell us, that you’re okay?
She’s been hit by… she’s been struck by… a bi…sexual.
OW!
Bisexual; Smooth criminal; Be gay; do crimes
It all fits!
Future storyline called “Not-So-Smooth Criminals”…
That phrase _definitely_ applies to the majority of the queers in my life’s circles.
Made me laugh, thank you.
You shouldn’t ask her to lie to us, we are not her therapist.
There are some things you can only tell your nemesis Dotty
Well, if you’re going to kill them afterwards, sure.
Cheer up Dotty….
A reminder that Becky still holds a candle for Joyce. So if Dottie were to tell her about it… things may not go well.
hahahahahahahahhaa oh I really shouldn’t be laughing so much.
But no, Becky, just you being there helps, even if she doesn’t talk about it right now. Maybe she’ll talk with…. ..
….
Walky ?
-look at alt text- oh you friggin’ didn’t
Look at the page url as well ^^
I’m alone on this one but Dorothy needs to just feel this pain. She’s been lowkey shitty lately. I feel like the comments give grace because “JoycexDorothy so cute go girls” but she was sending pock shots to someone who was taken and she doesn’t get to get credit for pulling the plug right before it go too deep. Figure your shit out Dorothy.
Have you thought that people give Dorothy grace because she is a teenager riddles with PTSD, who recently reexamined her entire career choice and even more recently her sexuality and so it is understandable and she is not everything absolutely perfectly and it be unreasonable to ask otherwise? But no I am sure you are right and it is purely because “JoycexDorothy so cute” or whatever.
Denial is a hell of a drug and Dorothy was knee deep in it. She wasn’t sending those pictures with the intent to like, steal Joyce away. It isn’t because “lol girl love so cute” it’s people in the comments being able to understand nuance.
I think it depends on the type of pain. It would be good if the pain is the result of Dorothy is feeling guilty. This could also be the unpleasant realization that her attempts to keep Joyce from Joe and hoard her for herself may have been less Courtly Romance and more a series of seriously jerky moves born of trauma and its resulting need to control and monopolize everything you fear to loose ala Revenge of the Sith. That would be necessary pain that would forge a better Dorothy.
However, if this is only Dorothy pining over her lost love, then this pain is just the boiling stew of an unhealthy obsession, and thus pointless and perhaps even harmful.
This
. Context freaking matter.
I second what True Survivor said 100%
Well, she definitely does feel guilty – her first thought when talking to Joe was “I can’t be into her, because that would make me a cheater.” And she’s the one who pulled back from Joyce: “You’re with Joe. I’m with Walky. We can’t …”
Which doesn’t mean she isn’t also pining.
Yeah, Dotty’s an efficient multitasker–she can do two things at once, both pine and be guilty!
You are of course entitled to your opinions, but I really don’t think the intended read of this whole sequence has been “haha yes let’s burn Dorothy’s life down around her because she’s a shitty person who deserves it”, and I hope you aren’t too terribly frustrated when the narrative continues to try to evoke sympathy for what she’s going through instead of smug satisfaction, because the former would not be very rewarding to expectations of the latter.
Also, like, dang, someone build me a transporter so I can go live in this world where audiences regularly treat sapphic romance as wonderful and above reproach, because I’m currently stuck in the real world, where far from being treated as the best kind of romance that folks will overlook anything to cheer on, one girl’s interest in another tends to instead be presumed predatory by default, regardless of the actual dynamics at play.
Presumed, and also it gets internalized as this deep seated “shitshitshit I’m no better than a man” terror of being predatory or behaving in a way that might make someone else feel preyed on. Yep. If you find someone to build you a transporter, bring me along because it still fucks me up every once in a while and I’m not young.
Sapphic Romance still gets an awful treatment the moment it’s not 1000% #Unproblematic cottagecore with no desire involved.
But Dante! When Dorothy said those literal exact words, obviously that was a personal attack on Joe, whose feelings she was definitely both considering and trying to hurt, and had nothing to do with how awful she was feeling about herself or a lifetime of societal programming! And it was obviously extra mean to Joe, who has never been inappropriate to a woman in his life, and therefore shouldn’t have ever entered Dorothy’s mind as a general stand-in for “predatory misogynistic dude”!
I’ll bring along anyone in the comment section who wants to go, for sure.
Also pls accept an appropriate gesture of support, because… been there, and if sucks.
I remember there were comments made to my wife from our greater friend circle regarding how I tricked her when I first came out because she was straight. Her response was “apparently I’m not.” And to shrug. People want drama and they don’t want others to have anything pure. They’ll hunt for flaws and pick at anything that might be vulnerable just to make sure you don’t have anything they don’t have.
Ughhhh I’m so sorry
I had a friend-group in high school that purported to be cool with this stuff, where the girls considered themselves all “a little” bi, and I was younger than anyone else in that group by 1-3 years, but my tiny crush on one of the other girls still got me kicked out and ostracized for being creepy by (checking smudged note on my hand) apparently being too happy to see her sometimes. (I wouldn’t have known how to make a move. I was 14. lol. Lmao.)
Guilt about what? Being a confused teenager? Having been totally flabbergasted by being sent a tit shot from her best friend (bc she didn’t know then she was attracted to her) and sending one back? Saying no to Joyce kissing her? Surviving being kidnapped by two crazy men, loosing a yearmate in the process, and not being ok with it?
Unrequited love sucks and people are allowed to feel pain over it even if they don’t handle the situation perfectly.
Also, Joyce made the move, not Dorothy.
Is this the smallest we’ve seen Dotty’s eyes get?
Huh, I didn’t expect Becky to admit that. Maybe she really is ready for this conversation.
I admit that the last panel surprised me with that comment, but I think Dorothy is also afraid of a possible reaction.
…I got nuttin’ but 🥺.
For some people, college is for finding yourself. But finding yourself kind of requires losing yourself first. And Dorothy is well on her way.
There were times when I even considered the possibility that Becky would put aside her teasing of Dorothy and finally show genuine concern.
Though judging by the final panels, it’s understandable that Dorothy doesn’t want to say anything for fear of her reaction, though Becky believes it’s because she’s being a pain in the ass.
All that remains is to wait.
She should talk to Lucy about it.
Lucy is lovely, but would NOT have any realistic advice to give Dorothy. Just romance novel tropes.
So, yes, she should talk to Lucy.
plus all of the Walky stuff.
There are at least three reasons why Becky is the wrong person to talk to, but I wonder which ones Dorothy is conscious of.
I’d forgotten that Dorothy’s crush is tied to her desire to protect Joyce and feeling of failure to protect her, and the abduction PTSD including blaming herself for Ross’s death. She’s probably keeping most of that in the subconscious.
garbage roof?
It’s also possible that your shared longing for Joyce will be what strengthens the bond between you. A horrible mortar of tears and unrequited love.
Even if tonight in particular wasn’t about Joyce. Even if it was something else breaking the camel of Dorothy’s burnout right on the spine.
… Becky, as much as I like her, hasn’t given Dorothy much reason to believe she’ll be a comfort. It’s not like Becky couldn’t possibly be, it’s that Dorothy doesn’t actually trust her for good reason (which Becky admits herself). She’s been competitive and insisted on antagonizing Dorothy for fun before, and being vulnerable is hard!
It’s just that tonight the trigger is Joyce. And oh, what a can of worms would that be. I just hope Dorothy can get a hug :((
Maybe this isn’t the time, but Becky really needs to see that the whole deal she’s made with Dorothy has been horrible.
I admit there have been times when I wish Becky would stop laughing at Dorothy and get to know her better, so she could learn to laugh along with Dorothy.
A bit is a comedic routine. It’s theatre! When you’ve got a bit on how someone clearly sucks and is your nemesis but there’s not enough trust between participants or not enough moments where you drop the bit, even in private, then what’s the difference with Actually Being Mean? :’DD
I like that Becky’s going “fair enough” here tbh. It’s mature and shows her being more of a friend than in many other interactions. (Can someone help Dorothy tho fr)
Personally I’m not giving up on Becky to help just yet, I think it’s 50/50 on whether she follows up this punchline by
a.) trying to give Dorothy space by going back to sleep
b.) trying to see if anyone else who Dorothy might trust more is awake
c.) trying to be there for Dorothy in a generic sense (“okay, you don’t have to talk about it, but would ice cream and companionable silence help?”), which might then demonstrate that she’s maybe a better candidate to actually talk to
I doubt the first option, because I think Becky puts too much pressure on herself to “recognize the signs” of severe depression, but it’s technically also an option….
My money is on Becky making a stab at what it could be, some how landing an accurate hit, but since it was a stab in the dark didn’t account for the nuance and emotional situation Dorothy is in and therefore make the situation worse. Becky cares too much and has too much trauma to not try and ‘be helpful’ so while I think option c is possible (it’d be reasonable to assume she got coaching/lessons out of a desire to be good at handling that type of situation as a way to deal with her trauma) I think she just…. Is a woman of action and being quiet is harder to understand as that without more experience.
See, I go back through the archives, and while I see a LOT of “You’re my nemesis”, I never really find a whole lot of “You suck”. I’m not saying Becky’s been a font of sympathetic support, merely that the notion that she’s only ever been horrible to her is kinda hard to find support for.
I sometimes wonder if people can read a comic with a contraption that threw a pie at Mary’s face while LEDs spelled out Carla’s name, and still think, “Yeah, Becky’s behavior with Dorothy is deadly serious and cuts Dorothy deeply, and isn’t explicitly a Bit, something Dorothy’s said in plain language in the comic itself”, and yes, yes they can.
Seriously, though, I would imagine it’s less that, and more Dorothy probably would think it being Joyce would be the issue, and even there, I feel like it would be understood. But, it depends. Maybe the person to talk to would be Walky. There’s… frankly a lot of shit he deserves to know about that she hasn’t talked to him about yet.
Are people doing that? Most of the comments I’ve seen comment think that Becky would drop the bit and help Dorothy as best she could.
I don’t know. Becky has an impressive dedication to the bit, but it is a bit. Mostly.
Becky’s not going to keep the bit up if she can see that someone’s really hurting.
I think so too, and so do most of us :33
We have the benefit of being an audience though. Does Dorothy have the same certainty? I really hope we get to find out
I think you and Clif are in agreement — “Becky has impressive dedication to the bit but it is a bit“. As in something Becky isn’t 100% sincere about.
Just my $0.02
My memory is weird (comes and goes, the weirdest things get trapped) but I remember Becky being Not Amused by both rejecting Yale and keeping it to herself.
I think there’s nuance here tbh. Becky’s behavior is a bit but not fully — there’s some genuine jealousy to it. And Dorothy who does get the ~Deep Seated Psychological Reasons~ for the bit can still go like “yknow I don’t think I wanna trust this person with the mental breakdown I’ve been tried this hard to suppress” even if Becky would’ve understood in her hour of need. That it’s about Joyce is a factor that further messes things but also not the entire issue.
Carla spelled out her name in LEDs and threw a pie at Mary’s face (wacky, extra, funny af) and then next strip she explained in righteous anger she had because nothing pissed off Mary worse than the fact she existed (dead serious, badass af)
I think the mention of the pie throwing contraption really does the rest of this comment a disservice, because it’s very hard not to just reply with “yes, of course, that one incident definitely makes DoA unlikely to ever tackle serious topics seriously, so it would never have addressed things like suicide and sexual assault”. Which, you know, it’s done more than once.
Thank you for resisting a bad faith reading of my post, because I think it’s unlikely you think that I am saying the comic does not tackle serious topics. I am saying that it dabbles in shtick to great effect, in addition to how well it handles serious topics.
No, I definitely don’t think that’s what you meant to say. It was just a distracting start, heh.
I do feel that it’s possible the Becky bit could have been serious.
I don’t think it’s completely a joke, either. I think Becky’s doing that thing where you express genuine feelings with a veil of humor, because you’re too uncomfortable to express the feelings directly.
More specifically, in Becky’s case, I think she was hecka jealous of Dorothy, jealous of Dorothy’s closeness to Joyce, even though she (I assume, we may yet find out differently) didn’t actually think Dorothy was anything but straight, and that she knew it wasn’t fair to be jealous of Dorothy, and that expressing jealousy directly would do nothing but make everyone (Joyce included) uncomfortable and awkward.
So, jokes and bits and trying, inside, to push the jealousy down and get over it without ever letting it become a real problem for Joyce or Dorothy.
Or at least, I think that was the goal.
Becky: Want me to get Walky instead?
+1
“here, I texted Joyce to come over, you can talk to her”
+2
I’m gonna be the devil’s advocate in the comment section and point out that Becky doesn’t always burn down Dorothy’s crops and laugh in her face as she cries. https://www.dumbingofage.com/2023/comic/book-13/02-turning-saints-into-the-sea/doublepissed/ I actually really like their convo here about Yale, particularly that Becky tells her “hey, I don’t mind you using the hostage sitch to get ahead in life, I’d rather it do some good for you instead of just giving you nightmares”. Becky does try. Becky does like Dorothy. She’s just also a bit of a dummy. In a serious situation like this, even if it’s Joyce related, I think she’d swallow her jealousy and help Dorothy.
Also I’m pretty sure Becky is past Joyce and would honestly just feel vindicated that she really did smell some chemistry between the two. I don’t think Dorothy having feelings for Joyce would fuck with her. Joyce having feelings for Dorothy, thereby proving Joyce is capable of loving women but just couldn’t love HER, would be the thing to fuck her up more. But also, Becky currently has a girlfriend who loves her bunches so I’d hope that’d help a lot.
Ever since the conversation in the letter, there was a chance that Becky would drop her “jokes,” but as the strips progressed, that possibility seemed unlikely until now. However, judging from the final panels, I think Dorothy doesn’t want to say anything for fear of Becky’s reaction.
I agree with this! I think Becky could really empathise with Dorothy here.
FWIW, I don’t believe Becky is a dummy at all. I think that Becky might well be the most intelligent member of the cast.
Keep in mind that Becky has spent her entire life hiding herself, and a part of that is that she’s exceptionally skilled at playing dumb. It is an act. In reality, she has often showed a level of insight and craftiness that other characters lack.
When I say dummy, I don’t mean I think she’s actually dumb, I mean it more in an affectionate way. She’s a yuckster, she’s in the Walky class of ‘treating the world like it’s a jokey sitcom’ and she definitely has big and deep reasons for this. But it does also keep people at arm’s length which is probably what she wants.
‘she doesn’t burn her crops ALL the time’ -next comic after the one posted she literally calls her a terrible politician- suuuuuuuure. She was right but that wasn’t the moment to say that and this is a really good example of why I think Becky is a terrible person to have the convo Dorothy needs.
Becky tried to be affirming with Dorothy and it wasn’t working because Dorothy is knee deep in some personal bizz. So she changed tactics to bluntly point out that if Dorothy isn’t willing to use a traumatizing situation to her benefit, she’s not going to make for a good politician. I think it was actually the exact moment to say that because Dorothy needed to hear that. And the difference between Becky and Raidah is that Becky just said she’d make for a poor politician with what she’s doing, whereas Raidah directly compared her to a murderer.
Also, considering what politicians are and what they DO, I’d say being called a poor politician is a compliment.
Your read of what Becky was really saying there fails to account for her opinion on politicians. “You’re a bad politician” is her way of saying, “You can’t be like Robin.”
As I said she was right but as a wise professor once said ‘there is a time and a place for everything Ash’
There is sooooo much history influencing this conversation between these two I love it
Who will Dorothy talk to about it? Ruth? Amber/Amazi-girl?
Hypothetically, she does have a therapist, if she wanted it to stay completely secret.
Sadly, her therapist is someone Dorothy would also like to keep it a secret from.
She could talk to Mary about it all. Ten minutes of that should be enough to convince Dotty that she’s done nothing wrong, because Mary’s condemnations will be so over the top that Dotty will finally just laugh at herself and go to sleep.
On one hand, I see where Dots is coming from not wanting to talk about it with Becky. On the other, if there’s anyone who gets it…
Yeah I mean no offense Becky, but Dotty’s response here is definitely deserved given yall’s relationship thus far.
Thing is, I am pretty sure that Dotty’s response isn’t even motivated by Becky’s past behavior, she’s just worried how Becky would take “Joyce wanted to kiss me and I said no even though I also wanted to do so, and now she’s banging Joe in her room and I can’t stop thinking I just gave away everything.”
Like, I kinda *suspect* Becky might be cooler about it than one might expect, but I also would be terrified that she’d be deeply hurt by it.
Yeah like, the reason Dorothy don’t want to talk to Becky is not because of the “nemesis” thing, she know that whole thing is just a joke. She is afraid of it hurting Becky for real.
I think the ongoing bit of Becky’s factors in some, such as how it’s kept a stronger, supportive relationship from developing between the two. But I do think Dorothy would still be worried about hurting her.
Yeah, this is purely about knowing how this would really, really hurt Becky. Even though she has a girlfriend she loves, Joyce was her first and that’s going to stick with you for a while.
Yeah, i think so too. Partly “telling Becky this would hurt her feelings“ and partly “telling Becky this would cause emotional fallout that i’d have to deal with instead of having someone deal with mine“. Becky couldn’t give the support Dorothy needs.
But it makes sense for Becky to associate this with “well i’ve acted like we’re nemeses” because she doesn’t know what it’s about. And i like that she’s taking it this way and realizing she hasn’t really been nice to Dorothy.
Yeah but now what if Becky gets out of bed and is like “Hey, I know I’ve been pretty hostile but like that’s just fun and games. As much as it pains me to say it (see, that’s a joke, I’m smiling) you’re Joyce’s second best friend and if she loves you then I love you. So if you need help you can talk to me.”
And then Dorothy breaks
That sounds like something that might happen, and like Willis levels of drama
Dorothy: Joe took Joyce away from me! It’s just like she was kidnapped!
Becky: Having been kidnapped….no.
Dorothy was also kidnapped though
+1
That would be incredibly shitty of Becky, who I think has at least a basic understanding of trauma.
Yeah I mean I don’t think there’s many worse choices for Dorothy right now than Becky. You could also argue she’s the best choice but it’s a matter of what one is looking for
I’d say there’s lots of worse choices:
Malaya: “Whatever.”
Carla: “How does this matter to me, exactly?”
Ruth: “Look, you know I’m bad at this, and you know I’m bad at this. Find someone else.”
Jason: “Who are you, and why are you talking to me?”
Charlie: *Stares off out the window, allowing Dotty to assume the worst possible condemnations of herself.*
Booster: “Oooohhh, drama! I love making everyone else’s romantic disasters into my own personal theater! Tell me everything so I can say something snarky about it!”
Amber: *Pretends to listen, but is actually composing a Joe/Walky comfort-fic in her head.*
Billie: “Well, your first mistake was not taking the shot when she offered it to you. It’s not like it’s REALLY cheating if its with your bestie.”
Lucy: *Refuses to come up for air while snogging Jacob*
Roz: “Hah! I KNEW your goody-two-shoes act was a fake!”
Dina: “So you are saying that under the right circumstances, Joyce might find girls attractive? Excuse me, I must now go and eliminate my only rival for Becky’s affections.”
Mary: Do I really need to explain this one?
Her ‘good’ choices would normally be Joyce or Walky. Joyce is the problem, and she may not be able to deal with Walky (even though I think that he, like Becky, would at least have a chance to rise to the occasion).
I feel like this whole conversation is gonna need to happen lol
Becky, give Dotty a hug. Even if she doesn’t want to talk about it, she clearly needs a friend right now.
Becky is a gremlin of chaos, but she knows how to be a good friend and can be less flippant about things when she needs to be.
But some people refuses to see what and choose to see her just as the one note caricature she explicitly pretend to be.
And whose fault is that? She’s been consistently horrible towards Dorothy, and is the last person she would feel like she can open up to.
I mean, it is yours (general you) the people who I say who refuses to see Becky’s deep and just look at the surface level facade that not even Dorothy take seriously.
They are *both* aware that the hostility to Dorothy is a bit.
You should know that nothing is more annoying than a busybody who gets offended on behalf of someone who is not themselves offended by something.
Dorothy doesn’t take Becky’s jibes seriously, and neither should you.
Of course, Becky will be totally fine and not at all consumed by anxiety after hearing Dorothy say, “I’m not okay and I won’t elaborate”. It’s not like she blames herself for missing suicidal signs in two people already and is hypervigilant about making sure she never does again, or anything like that.
yeah. there’s just layers and layers here.
(like an ogre)
Also, makes you cry.
And if you leave it in the sun too long, it gets all shriveled and starts growing those weird little hairs.
OOOF. You’re very right, I hadn’t thought of that!!
Aw man. So if Dorothy goes outside (I’ve been predicting Dunn Meadows but, anywhere honestly), what are the odds Becky will follow her?
Becky is perhaps the best person to keep tabs on Dotty for that reason, though. I think she’ll rope in help if Dotty doesn’t get it herself, or things seem too worrisome.
I kind of wonder if knowing something is going on with Dorothy will make Becky drop the “nemesis” bit for a while, and then this will alert others (like Joyce) that something is up.
Which two people does Becky blame herself for missing suicidal signs in?
One is her mother, who we learned committed suicide in a flashback.
I have no idea who the second one is.
Billie.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/04-it-all-returns/stock/
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/04-it-all-returns/deserves/
Ahhh tyty.
Jennifer/Billie.
Thank youuu!
Oh did we learn that? I would love a link if you have it but totally understandable if you don’t.
No wait nvm I remember now!
Becky: I know Dorothy..I’ve always known.
Dot: What?
Becky: My gaydar always sensed you wanted Joyce!
That is honestly where I’m hoping this goes.
Becky: So did you and Joyce finally kiss or somethin’?
Dorothy: (panics internally)
Becky: Oh shit, really? Hah! Called it!
“Ohhh so you’re into Joyce too. Whew, been there sister…”
Fair.
Maybe but she doesn’t mean it like that, Becky.
See, Dot knew from the start openly crushing on Joyce would only hurt her, Joyce and maybe especially Becky. And that’s why she can’t talk to Becky about it! But Becky thinks it’s because she’s been too fake mean to Dorothy and now Dorothy really thinks they’re enemies! Just like some goofy commenters think!
Not saying that, yes, it’s deserved, but anyway…
I really can’t blame Dorothy for not wanting to talk with Becky about this.
Mmhmm. It would likely wind up upsetting Becky for quite different reasons. XD
Ironically, if Becky and Dorothy actually had a closer relationship, Becky might be the BEST person to talk to about this.
… who does Dorothy have, really, other than Joyce?
Not Walky. Not Danny. Literally almost no one else on the floor.
… maybe Ruth. Go talk to Ruth, Dorothy.
Or Carla. I mean, she can *literally* do anything, I’m sure she can solve this one.
Carla builds her a robo-Joyce, problem solved.
I think Danny would be a valid option. I mean, he kinda mocked her at first but the dude’s empathetic enough that if she approached him now, he’d be able to tell that this is a serious issue.
The only real problem I suppose is that he is a dude.
100% deserved. Becky has been horrible towards Dorothy from the get-go.
And Dorothy has been various flavours of amused and bemused by this, except that one time she was actually upset, and Becky immediately shifted to “How can I apologise without actually admitting that that’s what I’m doing?” Which Dorothy accepted.
I’m pretty sure the reason Dorothy doesn’t want to talk to Becky about is because she considers Becky a friend and doesn’t want to upset her.
Despite the mostly good-natured ribbing and light trolling, Becky and Dorothy are reasonably good friends (let’s be real, if there was any real animosity between them they probably would have at least tried to find different rooming accommodations for Becky). If Dorothy just told Becky “Yeah turns out I’m into ladies and possibly in love with Joyce but I can’t be with her”, Becky would immediately drop the act and commiserate, because she’s been there. Most of the high-fiving about lady-loving would wait for a more appropriate time.
The problem is Dorothy can’t do that without being dishonest. Joyce maybe-probably-definitely reciprocating changes everything. Becky is going to have a serious shock when she finally learns Joyce isn’t totally straight. She may be mostly over Joyce but she’s NOT completely over her, and finding out that Joyce was actually into ladies, but just not specifically her? That’s going to hurt and need to be processed. If Dorothy drops that bombshell now, any potential discussion between them is going to get derailed and both of them are going to be spiraling. If Dorothy lies by omission and lets Becky think that she’s just dealing with pure unrequited feelings, they could probably have a sincere talk about Dorothy’s feelings, but one rooted in bad assumptions, and Becky would probably feel hurt and betrayed if it ever came to light what actually happened to trigger Dorothy into this state.
Exactly. All of Becky’s jealousy comes from perceiving something off about how Joyce interacts with Dorothy and her preferences (Joyce initiating a face rubbing hug, Dorothy being a girl version of her type of guy, etc.), too.
It would be way better narratively if Becky finds out this whole thing from Joyce.
I’m not entirely certain that Becky is as unaware of the situation as this implies. She might be entirely unsurprised when she is finally told or figures it out. It is, after all, the root of her jealousy, it’s possible that it’s something she’s been processing and figuring out in the background this entire time.
(Mind you, it’s still completely valid for Dorothy to be assuming that all of this is true, I’m not saying she should open up to Becks, I think that’d be reckless, but I also wouldn’t be shocked, narratively, if Becky’s reaction is “Oh, so you finally figured it out?”
Nah, that should be very unlikely based on what we know. Everyone who knows or even suspects either has way more information to go off than Becky (Joe, Sarah, Danny), has Batman in their head (Amber), or is a psychology major with incredible deduction and observation skills (Booster basically reads the comic).
For Becky, it amounts to an irrational fear and conjecture that conflicts with reality as far as she knows. Joyce saying she’s on the down low gets a sad face out of Becky despite Joyce having no idea what that could imply. That happened like a day ago in-universe and doesn’t seem like someone who knows much of anything.
If she were to reveal “oh, i been knew that”, it wouldn’t be based off anything on-screen and would be far less interesting since it has significance to Becky’s current arc.
Possible. She probably hasn’t joked about it as much as she has without at least considering if it’s true, and her suspicions about Joyce being into girls probably didn’t instantly vanish when she was rejected. But I think even if it’s something she *suspects*, having it *confirmed* will still be a blow. Final, crushing confirmation that Joyce *could* have liked her, but didn’t? That’s going to sting no matter how much she’s braced for the blow.
And, frankly, even if all her instincts are telling her those ladies are into each other, you can’t discount the power of willful ignorance. Avoiding acknowledging an obvious truth because it would be painful is, like, human nature 101.
She has suspicion, mainly about Joyce’s end, but it’s not based on things that the audience and other characters are aware of that make it unquestionable. That’s before the almost kiss between the two, too.
Becky is mainly fueled by jealousy and it’s tied to the idea of being her being Joyce’s best friend as well. It’s why she makes jokes or just sad faces. That’s the opposite of denial. She is seemingly hyper aware and sensitive to any perceived suggestion that Joyce and Dorothy share a connection she doesn’t. The coming out scene will be funny whenever it happens because Becky will more than likely be all jokes about it on the surface.
Go find jocyln, Dorothy! (I have butchered the spelling)
Jocelyne, for future reference, but I support the enthusiasm and you got your point across just fine lol
It does seem unlikely that Jocelyn being on campus for this development is a coincidence. Either Joyce or Dotty is going to go to her for advice. Possibly both.
I always struggle trying to remember how Jocelyne’s name is spelled. Probably a combination of her not appearing in the comic as often as others, and that it’s not a very common name where I live.
It’s also close enough to Joyce’s I keep starting to spell it like “Joyce..” and then getting confused.
Poor Becky, she literally has no idea and thinks this is just about their little bullshit rivalry that everyone knows is just an act.
”Their” rivalry is purely 100% Becky being a little shit.
Yes and that is an act.
“Did you get accepted to Harvard yet? Tell me if you do. Rooting for you.”
like we already know this for a fact, she’s just doing a bit for comfortable distance.
I’ve been trying to think who Dorothy could talk to about this. The problem is she’s really not close to that many people.
Joyce is out for obvious reasons.
It would be pretty jerky to go to her boyfriend and expect sympathy for being broken-hearted over someone else.
Becky has Joyce issues.
Amber is a trash goblin who craves mess.
It occurs to me that Sierra might be a good choice. She’s kind, supportive, and has experience with falling for people in relationships. I doubt the story is actually going to go in that direction, but it seems like Dorothy’s best option.
I’m pretty sure Jocelyn is where this ends up.
Wasn’t Sierra Dorothy’s old roommate before Becky? Or am I mis-remembering.
I get wanting things to go smoothly but it would be a boring story if Becky just doesn’t care about Joyce having feelings for Dorothy. All that build up and she’s actually completely cool about this situation that cuts to her core
You say boring story, I say comical undercut.
Dammit, okay, one way it works
If Becky realizes that Dorothy’s actually messed up by it, she’ll probably keep any problems she has under her hat. It’ll blow up eventually, but in the moment she’d be supportive.
Remember, Becky’s really good at hiding her feelings.
I wonder what’s going on through her mind right now.
Is it just, “The girl I love walked away without hesitation and is now with someone else?”
… or is it, “I threw away my acceptance to Yale, and with it my dreams for the future I had always envisioned, because I loved this person, loved them without fully understanding it, and when someone gave me a reason why throwing away Yale was actually the right decision and why I shouldn’t want my dreams after all I clung to that reason instead of countering it like I would have before; but now I don’t have her, and I don’t have Yale, I don’t have my dreams, I don’t have my future, and I’m standing here in my pajamas in the dead of night talking to the other person who loved her and was rejected by her and had to rebuild her entire life, while the person that I love is in the arms of the man who made my life hell for years, left me to be with him without hesitation, and I am not OK, I am NOT OK, dammit, and I am screaming from that tiny part inside me that is drowning in this sea of nothingness, screaming for a life raft to drag me from where I am to something which has a future.”
We’ve all been there before, right?
…
… anyways, I bet it’s a little of column A, a ittle of column B.
And I really, really think that Dorothy needs to talk to Ruth.
Okay, I’ll bite, why graduated with honors from negativity university with a major in pain and selfdegredation psychology and a minor in vindictive nihlism Ruth?
She’s got no one else, really.
Who else is she friends with?
She can’t go to Walky. Not that he’d help even if he was connected.
Can’t go to Joyce. Can’t go to her parents. Can’t go to Becky.
Who else does she really have here, that she’s close to? Amazi-girl? Danny?
And I’ve seen people mention Jocylene. And yes, I know she’s right around the corner. But I really don’t think that what Dorothy really needs right now is an older, hornier version of Joyce.
But Dorothy has already confided in Ruth. She already knows some of those “secret Dorothy secrets” that Dorothy wouldn’t tell anyone. And Dorothy’s actually pulled the veil back a bit more, expressed herself more fully.
And Ruth’s already been through this. Not this *exactly* but she’s certainly been through “I’m using the person that I love to make self-harming, destructive choices.” She’s already been in a depressive horrible destructive spiral, and what’s more, she’s climbing out of it, with the help of therapy and with medication, and is now even in a position to help others.
Like Alice said. “You sought refuge here, and people took care of you. You look loved.” That wasn’t just Joyce talking her up. That was also Ruth, inviting her over, after comforting Jennifer. Ruth has the bandwidth for care for others because she is finally taking care of herself.
Plus, she’s her RA. It’s part of why she’s there.
I think I disagree with the start of your argument. Her social circle isn’t that small. But you make some good arguments. I’m not totally sure about the ‘having more bandwidth’ part, but maybe it’s true. This is the same person who suggested Karaoke and getting laid in a previous similar moment and I am not really sure how much good those did Dorothy beyond coping rather than processing/helping. I think Dorothy is at a stage where coping isn’t what is needed now, I think she needs genuine actual help processing all of this.
Dina wouldn’t be a bad choice here imo. Her therapist wouldn’t be a bad choice here. I also think I disagree that her parents aren’t a good choice/option here although I think a friend is better.
Her social circle is big, but that doesn’t mean she has many close friends.
Who has she confided in? Who has she shared parts of herself with? Who out there has she *intentionally* lowered the mask, just a little, from “Dorothy, Future President, Totally Has This Under Control”?
You say “Dina,” but Dina still struggles to understand a lot of interpersonal communication. She’s gone a long way from learning that you can show someone care and support by light physical contact, but I don’t think that she could really say a lot about unrequited love, or not being sure of your future. Dina approaches love like a science experiment, and the only person she has dated has been crazy for her. Dina has also always, 100%, been unwavering from her goals.
Her therapist would be a great option, possibly the best, but unless I’m mistaken, she hasn’t seen her in how long – at least not at all since things REALLLY started crashing. That might be scheduling, but it also might be avoidance. And I don’t see her parents being something she would willingly choose to do. Her parents think the world of her; Dorothy seems like a kid who really, REALLY doesn’t want to disappoint them.
Also. You know that the “get laid” and “karaoke” solutions were both Jennifer, and she roped Ruth into it. Ruth, for her part, was already aware that Dorothy was spiraling and had spoken to Becky and asked her to keep an eye on her. Ruth was very vocal that she thought that what Jennifer was trying to do wouldn’t help.
Nononono. I got it, I got it.
Dorothy needs to speak to ROBIN.
Yeah, never thought I’d say those words in that order, either.
Why?
1) Robin essentially destroyed her entire political career because she really, really had the hots for one person , and then had to pick herself back up after. She’s been Dorothy through and through.
2) Robin keeps on her feet and keeps moving forward, and has adjusted to a professorial role with ease.
3) Dorothy can see that Robin has almost no qualifications, no real skill, barely has an idea of what’s going on, and yet she was a congressman. That implies that Dorothy *really* doesn’t need to push herself as far as she does.
4) If push came to shove, Robin would TOTALLY seduce Joe in order to get Joyce and Dorothy back together.
There. See? Problem solved!
Seconding AnonGrouch: Dorothy’s gone to Ruth about this at least twice already, as well as broken into Ruth’s room to drink Ruth’s liquor. Whether or not Ruth could hypothetically be helpful with another attempt, I doubt she’d be Dorothy’s first pick, since she’s tried several times already with little success.
(Acknowledging: Dorothy didn’t KNOW she was going to Ruth about this, but she was. She’s been sublimating her angst about Joyce for a while, burying it in all the other issues, and struggling with all of it.)
I should probably state ahead of time I like Ruth and I think those traits are a big part of her personality/what she brings to a table and they CAN be good/used well in this situation but I also like…. Idk. She didn’t seem to be able to converse about stuff directly last time. So I genuinely don’t know what would be good about it.
Talk about Danning it up.
A+++ character analysis, so well-said. Jesus, this poor girl.
Yes, but also there’s so many more reasons why it shouldn’t be with Becky specifically.
“So, you know how you’ve struck up a comedic antagonistic relationship with me to hide your jealousy of Joyce (whom you’ve had a one-sided crush on) wanting to spend more time with me than with you? And her wanting to be more like me than like you? Well, it turns out I’m also attracted to her. And she might well be attracted to me too. So the reason she turned you away is not because she’s straight but more to do with it being you. And the reason she turned me away is because she has a boyfriend a the moment. And that makes me feel sad.”
“Oh, then you also can’t have her because of MEN and one of you being in a happy commited relationship?”
Hmm, maybe they could talk after all.
Joyce didn’t turn Dotty away. Dotty turned *Joyce* away.
Where are we on Becky? I’ve read the comments and the takes seem a little divisive. Some arguing Dorothy is fair to not want to confide in her because of the rather one sided, rivalry Becky has created. Other’s saying that rivalry is performative and that Becky would step up as a friend.
My question is does Dorothy know that? How would she when Becky takes every opportunity to throw shade? I believed that Dorothy knew Becky was just joking but this moment kinda make me second guess that.
And finally is it okay to excuse performative antagonism if you’re still doing annoying stuff on purpose? Like that pile of clothes is a perfect example. It’s still there. Is Becky just lazy and sloppy or is it an act to annoy her “rival”? Does her intent even matter if the damage is still done? Is there a line? Where is it? I don’t think Dorothy knows and can’t fully trust Becky because of it.
I try to read the dynamic at face value. Becky’s doing a bit, and Dorothy’s willingly playing the straight man. Slightly ironic, since Dorothy is neither of those two things, but them’s the breaks.
Unless? Trans-masculine storyline?
Most of Becky’s “rivalry” with Dorothy has been one-sided playful ribbing, but there have been a few times that Becky seemed genuinely threatened by Dorothy and Joyce’s friendship. The story arc where Joyce and Dotty went to a bar to get drunk is the most recent. Becky was genuinely pissed at both of them for not inviting her to the festivities and even reminded Dotty that WALKY was her significant other, not Joyce.
Your point is the exact reason I question. I understand why Dorothy would be hesitant to trust Becky. Becky has even occasionally slipped some real hurtful actions and real jealousy in under the veil her play rivalry provides.
I think all of these conflicting takes have a seed of truth at least.
Yes, Becky’s rivalry with Dorothy is mostly performative and I think Dorothy knows that; but also, Becky is still nursing something about Joyce-and-Dorothy, whether or not that’s jealousy (which doesn’t have to be romantic); and also, I think Dorothy is also probably worried on some level that Becky would be hurt to know the details of what happened… whether she’s right to worry about that or not.
I agree that Becky would drop the mostly-performative bit to help Dorothy if she knew Dorothy was really hurting, even if she IS still a little hung up on Joyce…
…but at the same time, Becky isn’t someone Dorothy is especially close to, and so far everyone Dorothy has talked to about this has made her feel worse (not that that’s what Joe was trying to do, and not that Danny knew enough about the situation to realize he was hurting her — it’s just how things keep shaking out).
So even if Dorothy knows Becky is (almost completely) just a jokester — I still think she’d have reason to hesitate.
After the way her conversation with Danny went, I think Dorothy would probably hesitate to confide in literally anyone.
+2
Focusing on the pile of clothes first, I think Becky is sloppy, there may be a utility reason for the pile (eg: my freshman roommate had one specifically to make getting out of the top bunk easier on the ankles. They asked me if it was ok, though), and she enjoys playing an odd couple dynamic with Dorothy.
The rivalry is mostly a bit. Much of the time it’s all act, sometimes there’s a kernel of jealousy (eg: Beckxiled), and occasionally its just exposed hurt, like when Joyce went to the bar with Dorothy.
There’s one incident I’m not sure how to read, but I lean towards that she cares about Dorothy. When Becky snooped in Dorothy’s desk and found the Yale acceptance letter. Maybe she’s just spying on her, but it feels like she was concerned with Dorothy’s apparent depression.
WRT the line and not knowing where it is and why Dorothy can’t trust Becky (or at least why Becky would guess Dorothy doesn’t trust her), I’m seeing that now. Becky could be self-aware of how she crosses the line sometimes.
I don’t think she actually snooped. I can believe that Dorothy actually made a mess of scattered papers because she was very frustrated at that time and was reminding herself not to punch things out of frustration… and then she decided to do the whole laundry thing with Joyce, which might have been rushed and whatever.
I think she knocked over stacks of paper on her desk (where the acceptance letter might have been, given that’s where we last saw it) and then Becky saw what some of them were when picking them up. This would be more supported by a strip that actually shows Dorothy knocking over things from her desk, but Dorothy believed her, and I felt the strip where it came up was presenting it as the truth.
hmm. that tracks. No snooping. But the cleaning up after Dorothy does read as concern for whatever she’s going through. Especially combined with the follow-up two (in-world) days later, with Becky and Ruth.
Like I said already the reason Dorothy doesn’t wanna about this with Becky is because of the topic, that would be a sore one for her due to the felling she had for Joyce, not because she think her whole “nemesis” thing is actually serious.
Dorothy explicitly knows that it’s a bit, yes, she has said so multiple times.
She’s also said she’s straight multiple times yet here we are. Not necessarily disagreeing with you but things clearly change. Dorothy can believe things but sometimes actions can contradict what you believe. Even Becky seems to acknowledge it’s fair Dorothy wouldn’t want to talk to her for whatever of multiple reasons in their surprisingly complex relationship.
Let’s be honest- Becky, on paper, is the WORST person Dorothy could confess to. She’s been suspicious that Dotty had been trying to steal Joyce away from her since the very beginning, even calling Dotty her “archrival” constantly. Dotty admitting that she has a crush on Joyce and almost made a move on her as she was prepping for her date with Joe would justify all of Becky’s suspicions and would definitely be deserving of at least a slap.
HOWEVER, Becky and Dorothy seem to be less adversarial now that they’re roommates, and Becky has noticed that Dorothy hasn’t been herself in the past few weeks, so MAYBE she might surprise us and be the sympathetic shoulder Dotty needs since she was in the exact same situation only a few months ago (in story.). Though in Becky’s case she was single and she hasn’t expressed any romantic feelings for Joyce since Dina became her girlfriend, which is QUITE different from Dorothy being in a “situationship” with Walky…
I’m hoping for a hug, but expecting a slap.
I will agree that if Becky can actually do it, and if she’s far enough distanced from her crush on Joyce that she can listen without feeling jealous, she would 100% be the best person to talk to right now.
With all the history of making Dotty a faux-pponent, I can see why
Dotty is dotty coz she has freckles… I can see it now…
I can’t help but feel like I’ve seen someone do the same joke as the alt text. Maybe it was the comments