They have indeed shown very little ability to keep their hands off of each other and I am here for that but even I think that’d be … a little much to ask Becky to handle. xD
But it would be a perfect parallel to how Becky got outed.
(Becky walks in. “Goshdangit, Joyce, did you not HEAR ME when I said you lock the door when you’re going to do these sorts of things???”)
And then she’ll crow about how she and Dina are better at lesbiating than Joyce and Dorothy could hope to be, and were even on their first try. This will lead to Dorothy postponing sexytimes to go engage in a massive research project so she can be sure of doing it right. Joyce, frustrated at the delay, ends up banging Joe while waiting for Dorothy to be done. Becky grins a shit-eating fox grin the whole time, while Dina looks on, eating cereal by the handful like popcorn.
The funniest outcome to me is that Becky is just out on a date with Dina. Likely to church because I think it is Sunday in comic. Joyce maybe forgot that Becky still keeps her faith meaning she goes to church regularly.
Ooh, I’ve got one. Keeping in the theme of church—Becky’s already seen the front page and had time to pray on it during service. Knowing that faith played in a role of Becky shrug it off annoys Joyce. If we’re keeping this sore winner thing going.
Oh, yes, Becky has been really going over the top with her jealousy of Dorothy and her possessiveness of Joyce, and how rude she was to Joyce about being autistic and having had sex. “Let’s watch Joyce go ballistic.” But also she was decent to Dorothy during her crisis and seemed to already know what was going on. Becky is going to be obviously fine with it just to annoy them.
I’ll raise you this- Becky sees the page, and decides to visit Dina for a bit after church, rather than risk walking in on any hanky panky that ran over the time window. B&D go out to give Amber quiet, get distracted, and forget about Joyce and Dorothy. J&D panic when Becky is late, and go off on a wild goose chase. B&D return to find they’ve got the room to themselves, and decide to make use of it, as AG shouldn’t be going out for a while.
J&D return, and end up walking in on B&D hanky panky. No one knows whether to be more relieved or annoyed. Comedic awkwardness ensues.
Jump cut to church, where Becky is currently flip/flopping between trying to pry veloci-Dina off the screaming (possibly guest) pastor covered in bite marks and joining in, because he decided to use the front page of the paper to preach against how bein’ gay leads to other immorality in today’s sermon.
What a church nominally says they believe is only as good as the impulse control of the most recent conservative maniac to find themselves standing at the pulpit with the opportunity to try wresting control of the minds of the community. And sometimes they succeed in dragging the whole congregation back a century, when they find the right weak spot to attack! This of course also tends to result in a church schism and a large portion of the congregation leaving for good, but as they say the devil will always find it better to reign in hell than serve in heaven.
That’s really only true in certain Protestant sects. Many denominations have much more organization. You’re not going to walk into a new to you Episcopalian church, for example, and find wildly different dogma being taught than in the one you’re used to.
Well that’s good for them if they can maintain that. My mom did a lot of religion shopping throughout my life and I got kinda over-exposed to different denominations in different states of being and as an adult I personally watched a Unitarian Universalist church go completely off the rails when they lost their minister and literally elected someone from the internet to be the president remotely and preach the latest hot takes via big screen video conference. In all those cases though people were clearly just chasing vibes, not meaning, so if there are ways to make your church about something more substantive I applaud the people who have achieved it.
@Dot: probably not. I don’t think we’ve seen anything of Becky’s church preferences since we saw her go with Joyce last semester, but she still seemed to be more focused on the aesthetics.
We already saw Dina in her room while Becky had already left, so she’s almost certainly not at church with Becky. I don’t think it’s likely that she’d abandon wounded Amber to go on a date at this point, either.
Though, seriously, her reaction to Billie’s tits was, “Huh, weird, why did Dorothy send me a picture of Jennifer’s boobs?” while her reaction to Dorothy’s tits was, Kernel panic: system halted
Well, that’s the problem with a story that’s a comedy and everything is part of a joke. You have little idea which things you’re supposed to take seriously and treat with realism and which things are exaggerated for comic effect and you’re supposed to ignore the implications of.
I’m pretty sure that calling people dumb has led to people unable to vocalise having to move to the term “mute”.
That’s not a dig at Kyulen, just a general observation as to the result of this change in language!
My non-caffeinated eyes first saw that as “linguistic drift sure is nutty” and I totally agreed. Then I drank the coffee, and then I saw the “nifty”. And, yeah, I still totally agree. You’re right on both counts (your actual words and the one I foisted off onto you via my hallucinations).
Out of curiosity, I checked this https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=mute https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=dumb
It’s… confusing. “mute” meaning “unable to speak” cropped up by the mid 15th century, but “dumb” is more convoluted; ‘In English the meaning “foolish, ignorant” was occasional in Middle English, but the modern use in this sense (since 1823) seems to be from influence of German dumm, especially in Pennsylvania German.’, but the full text of the latter link shows it as messier than that.
that makes sense, Dutch uses “stom” to mean mute, but can also be used to mean something along the lines of calling someone “foolish/ignorant/annoying”
As far as I know, the words Dutch and Germanic/German used to be much more vague and interchangeable in English. Dutch used mean pretty much “Germanic”. Only later the two words became specified to refer to people from the Netherlands or Germany (historically, for a long time there wasn’t a clear-cut united Germany anyway, so it referred more to Germanic people).Calling the Dutch Dutch is a peculiarity of the English language anyway, in other languages it sounds nothing alike.
Either way, Dutch is a West Germanic language, so there’s a similarity between the Dutch “stom” and the German “stumm”.
Well come on, look at the word “absurd” for comparison, it literally means “from that which does not answer”. Our language shows that in the past people simply didn’t bother distinguishing between the concepts of “this is stupid” and “I can’t understand this”, and you can still see it in action if you go on twitter today.
Well that’s the thing right? Most people who use it are older gen z and millennials who remember the original onion article or have at least heard of it. I don’t really think of Joyce as particularly online, and it’s not slang that people that age use anymore.
Then there is too old! I had not seen it and now I have, I still don’t know what it is about. Looking it up led me to a page purportedly written by a baker but was actually a hilarious mish mash of stuff about character traits, dogs and baking: all repeating paragraphs of really bad AI burble!
I love it when “older people” are so much younger than me!
When I signed up for Facebook (I burned the account when it got big, and went to Livejournal/Tumblr), it required a .edu email address. I’m the internet version of that Captain America “I understood that reference” joke.
Not me, I’m only 32. Twenty years ago, people in my class were complaining about “feeling old”, and it doesn’t seem like much has changed. You’re born, you’re old, and then you die, with no room for youth.
Yeah, that’s a common phenomenon in this discussion, hence all the folks thinking Joyrothy are being horrible, irresponsible people for not having a long adult discussion with everyone. They forget the Big Smooch happened literally yesterday afternoon, and all parties concerned are about 19 or 20 (not an age noted for calm, wise decision-making).
I mean if anything it’ll probably open an old wound given Joyce was Becky’s first crush for years and years while only getting resolved a couple months ago
And as far as they were both concerned, the only reason they didn’t work out was because Joyce was straight. But then in comes Dot and Joyce suddenly has a gay awakening which might make Becky suddenly have to confront the idea that “oh hey maybe it wasn’t something fully out of my control, maybe Joyce just isn’t into me as a person specifically.” Which would probably make her feel atleast some way
Adding into this is just that Becky’s character arc last we saw her was freaking out over the concept that Gender and sensuality can be fluid (because what does that mean for her if she did “meet the right boy”? Would her dad never have kidnapped her and her friends on two separate occasions? Or if Dina does decide that shes not *really* a girl?) So the idea thar actually, Joyce could’ve fallen in love with a women, just turns out you weren’t the right woman, is gonna sting even if she is happy with Dina because its going to compound an issue she’s already dealing with.
Also let’s face it, Dina is more Joe’s friend than she is Joyce or Dorothy’s, so there will be sides being picked in all this.
Still fucking weird that Becky is treated as the locus of any and all drama in this situation and Walky isn’t at all mad that Dorothy has mistreated him yet again
He also says the reason he’s saying he’s okay with it is because he knows he can’t compete with Dorothy and he doesn’t want to lose Joyce completely. He’s cutting off his thumb to keep the rest of the hand here.
….It just now occurred to me. Could it be Joe echoing the sentiment of what his mom used to say to his father pre-divorce? Before enough was too much? We know the idea of repeating his dad’s mistakes was always on Joe’s mind, so maybe he never considered it could go the other way.
We do not know this, he’s never said as much, and what he has said goes against that, while making MUCH more sense with his current behavior and willingness to try polyamory:
This is the closest we get to him ever saying his previous behavior had anything to do with his dad at all, and it’s only the latest attempt by Joe throughout the storyline to justify and minimize his behavior, because the apology donuts weren’t actually, at this point, about being sorry — they were about getting people to stop being mad at him.
You may also notice that this “excuse” (where actually it’s better for everybody if Joe dehumanizes women) is immediately followed by Joyce challenging his premise that not treating people as human beings = no one getting hurt: she tells him that dehumanizing mindset is exactly what got her hurt with “Ryan” and what she’s now afraid of, because she knows it was never only him operating that way.
Because that is what that storyline was about: the type of guy who views women as notches on a bedpost instead of as people, and how he got a wake up call about how shitty that was, and how he’s taken pains to unlearn that mentality.
He later tells Rachel he’s sorry, that he “thought [he] was being funny, but [he] wasn’t, so [he’s] stopping” (https://www.dumbingofage.com/2017/comic/book-7/04-the-do-list/oath/), and the very next storyline has him approach Amber to explicitly say he is trying to re-learn how to make friends and talk to people as people.
Anyway, I get why this theory makes sense to people, but it really seems SO completely at odds with the actual writing in the “Do” List storyline and after it.
Imagine a version of this scene where instead of saying he’s dehumanizing people because it’s better for everyone, Joe says he’s afraid of turning into his dad.
Even if you just imagine it’s what he was thinking when he said the other thing, would it not REALLY ruin everything about Joyce’s response? Would that not turn it into a nasty lecture she’s delivering against another traumatized person?
Yeah. I cannot imagine it was ever Willis’s intent for this to be Joe’s specific trauma. I think he has more generalized trauma around divorce (evinced when he kinda exploded at Joyce’s shitty mom), and a more general reluctance-to-enter-into-serious-relationships that is extremely typical of the children of divorce.
(We also don’t actually know that Joe’s mom forgave Richard’s cheating, and we definitely don’t have any indication that she tried to suggest polyamory — the OPPOSITE, if anything, since Joe wanted to hear that Richard had told Stacy theirs was going to be an open relationship: Joe pretty explicitly said he hoped his dad had done that, because anything else would lead to Stacy being hurt by Richard’s inevitable cheating.)
Let me add: I am emphatically NOT saying Joe wasn’t being shallow as a way of protecting his heart, I DO think that was part of it; I just think it was the, again extremely typical, reluctance of many children of divorce to try a more serious relationship.
I think him being afraid of turning into his dad would make sense, but I don’t think that was actually one of his fears, and I definitely don’t think it is at all textually supported that Joe’s mom ever tried an open relationship.
It’s a lot more ambiguous than that (and, I think, deliberately so, for drama reasons). Yes, maybe he’s taking the approach of “some Joyce is better than no Joyce”, but it’s entirely possible he’s familiar enough with all that poly stuff about “love shared is not love divided” and the like (although perhaps not familiar enough to know how difficult it can be).
Also, as browsing https://www.dumbingofage.com/tag/joe+dorothy/ indicates, he doesn’t seem to dislike Dorothy. At all. Of course, that doesn’t mean she doesn’t dislike him (and she’s made his annoyance at his behaviour pretty obvious), but she hasn’t particularly communicated any such dislike to him for quite a while.
See also https://www.dumbingofage.com/2025/comic/book-15/03-me-and-who-you-say-i-was-yesterday/assureyou/ – that 5th panel remark, while cutting, isn’t the sort of thing he’s likely to say to someone he’s on uneasy terms with unless he’s out to make an enemy (which he clearly isn’t). It’s more something to say to someone whose friendship status isn’t in doubt, so in context, it seems evident he’s confident they can get along even without gentle interactions.
None of the above is to say he’s right, just that, where a poly relationship is concerned, I don’t think the question of how he and Dorothy will get along is something he’s particularly worried about.
As to the last panel of your link: yes, he could be worried about sharing Joyce with Dorothy, but I see it more likely as him being concerned about not having yet gotten an answer. Or even sudden thoughts of what it could mean for Joyce and Dorothy to be outed, particularly given Joyce’s background… Like I said, ambiguous, but I doubt thoughts of Dorothy’s interactions with him in a possible future poly relationship are the main thing on his mind in that strip.
He wanted Joyce to have them both, but i think he would have prefered her being honest about her desires and have a conversation with him /before/ making out with Dorothy and then, because joyce cant do anything half-arsed, decided that the relationship she currently had must be taken to the back and shot
Walky isn’t mad because he expects it. He doesn’t think he deserves Dorothy and was always waiting for the shoe to drop. He’s right though – he deserves better
Yes. He should be mad. Miffed, upset, frustrated everyone. I’ve been on this train for a while but I’ve got to assume it’ll happen randomly like the incident of him mentioning Mike.
Something will set him off on Dorothy—we just don’t know what or when.
I disagree. From the very start of their relationship, Dorothy has made it known that it wasn’t forever, and that it was mostly physical at that. The only reason they even got back together 4 days ago was pure hormonal urges.
You’re right that she said it wasn’t forever but it’s always been push and pull. She makes it clear it isn’t forever but then she says she loves him. She pushes him to go after Lucy and see where that leads, but then tries to get him to cheat on Lucy. He’s freed up and they are together again, but has a Freudian slip that she only sees him as “fun” (at least from his perspective). Then at the end of it all, she dumps him for Joyce.
Of course, in the back of his mind he always felt he didn’t deserve her but the push and pull has to be hurtful, right?
What the others have said, but also that I don’t think there’s any reason to think that it was ever “mostly physical”. It was supposed to be a “just for fun” relationship, but even at the start when she could still keep up that pretense, that’s not the same as “mostly physical”.
Always possible he’s thinking ‘good riddance,’ or was mulling over whether to dump Dorothy himself when Joyce saved him the effort. Not because of the cheating, but because Dorothy hadn’t changed, and/or he wasn’t happy about the relationship on offer.
Agree. Why “should” he? He only “should” if he is in the monogamy camp, and one of the c-word people, for a 4 day rebound after a precious dumping in a young person fairly casual sexual relationship. And even than, why anger? why not resignation, or any one of a number of other feelings.
Are we back on naughty sinners who must be punished again?
Like, is Willis required to be the badly behaved God of the religion they had imposed on them, to their characters, or can they, you know, just, like, do what they want?
at the risk of getting involved in The Discourse about this arc, because it’s mostly been awful, but like. Walky’s character arc over the last decade-plus of comic has mostly been about him becoming less of a doormat, emotionally speaking. it’s been most prominent in his relationship with his sister and parents (i.e. finally standing up to his mom and actively trying to mend his relationship with Sal), but it applies to his romantic relationships, too. so, like, putting aside the weird moralizing of fictional teenagers for a moment, I do think it’s fair to wonder whether Walky is gonna actually stand up for himself here at any point
Oh look, we’re back on “sinners need punished” instead of “oh, look, a lot of these characterizations have been bent/broken to make this event somehow even more boring and of less consequence every time it comes into focus” and “it’s pretty deeply unrealistic for NO ONE to have a really negative reaction to this”.
I mean, you COULD just keep focusing on the length of the most recent relationships and not on the long-building friendship/trust for Joe/Joyce or the multiple times now that Dorothy has strung Walky along and then dropped him like trash, but that’d be just as silly as the people who keep trying to pretend that Joyce/Dorothy haven’t been foreshadowed basically the whole strip.
Because precisely one character has been changed from her old characterization – Dorothy’s trauma has caused her to change from being a single-minded pursuer of the office of the President to being a muddled teenager like everyone else.
Joyce has been pretty clearly closeted from the beginning. Joe’s growing and changing, which happens a lot around that age (thank the gods, because 18yo me was even more insufferable than 62yo me). Walky… is Walky, he doesn’t want to take relationships seriously because he’s still a kid at heart, and he knew from the beginning that this was just rebound for both of them (hence his lack of surprise). The only way any of these characters can be “bent/broken” for this story is if you believe sincerely that even fictional characters are locked permanently into the people they were the day they graduated high school.
If “kid at heart” is your read on Walky, as opposed to “this guy goes out of his way to bury his problems under a goofball facade rather than deal with them”, I am not sure we’re seeing the same things in these characters enough to have a meaningful conversation.
I’m not sure that “characterizations have been bent/broken” is the best argument here. Any of these reactions are at least plausible. They’re not wildly out of character. They’re potential directions to take each individual.
But all of them seem to lean in the same direction: a character had valid reasons to be upset with Joyce and/or Dorothy over the cheating and the option they chose wasn’t that.
Other than Sarah, who was negative, but will almost certainly get over it (or be seen as unreasonable) now that Joe has been told and isn’t angry.
I’ve been largely playing up my reaction and boredom with this arc but oh my god if somehow Sarah ends up being presented as unreasonable I will crash the fuck out
“Bent” is more what I’m thinking than “broken”, except in the case of Joe — I STILL have a hard time swallowing him going from “I structured my entire relationship strategy around avoiding the possibility of cheating” to “Yeah, I’m cool with being cheated on and will roll with it instead of J&D taking the out I have been trying to hand them for weeks”.
Why does it need to do good? Why can’t it just be a particularly realistic response for a guy who’s been repressing his feelings more or less the entire strip to finally break in some way?
Interesting characterization! I like anger as a positive force. I feel like we were just talking about that too – in a different context (direct action) but finally getting angry for yourself when you’re used to holding back or repressing feelings can feel so good
I mean, I get it from Joyce’s point of view. Becky has “caught” her bring a “hypocrite” (and/or liar) already when Joyce became an atheist, and after how precarious things have gone for the last x amount of months, I think Joyce is putting nearly all her stock in Becky’s approval. Becky is the one who knew her before college started, so Becky has the power to “approve” of the changes in Joyce’s life.
Quotations used for things that I don’t personally think are true or healthy but that I suspect Joyce has subscribed to in her own head.
At this point I’ll be surprised if Becky is at all upset over the relationship minus the cheating because it looks like a joke about how they were worried over the wrong person is being set up and dragged out.
It will also be really hurtful for Becky, that Joyce was in fact bi but just not for her. Obviously Joyce doesn’t OWE her a romantic relationship but feelings don’t adhere to logic and it’s gonna hurt.
Dorothy is his first love and got back together with him immediately after he broke up with Lucy, after trying to get him to leave Lucy for her, after hooking him up with Lucy, and has now cheated on him and allowed Joyce to dump him by proxy. Perfectly reasonable to get mad about it.
Sadly, you must not understand Walky’s very character, if you believe that. If he ever does get “hurt feelings”, they’re are short term and quickly passes. The man is male Pollyanna; his positive outlook on the world overpowers all negatives.
Because he got cheated on. Because the girl his girlfriend cheated on him with mocked him for it and proclaimed her victory. Because his now ex didn’t even react to that at all.
A little “WTF, I deserve better than this” would a healthy sign.
i will simply say that i would argue till i am blue in the face (and so pretty in the eyes a great day for canada) about walky having a lot more emotional resilence and strength here, sure he’s hurt but there isnt anything that will be improved by gettign angry, so eat a shittonne of comfort food, watch/play his favorites and lose himself in positive feelings. (pretty much how i handled shit like that at that age). walky has often struck me as someone who doesnt see a point in getting mad, as for him it hasnt changed anything or gotten him anything, (i have never had a life event that my getting angry or mad did not make EXPONENTIALLY worse, so maybe i’m biased about anger)
He’s not, really. He represses and denies and hides what he’s really thinking and feeling in a screen of jokes and snark. I’m not sure if this Walky has the capacity for snapping into unchecked violence that the other one had — Linda didn’t get trauma assistance from H.A. in this universe —- but his basic personality and his defense mechanisms are the same.
Some people are like this but Walky is most assuredly not one of them. He just likes to diffuse with humor and not look directly at whatever’s upsetting him.
Hey, just because he has crippling anxiety around genuinely expressing or talking about his feelings thanks to his family, doesn’t mean he hasn’t been ruminating on the death of his roommate and failure to be there for his friends ever since Halloween.
It’s reasonable to get mad about it, yeah, but it’s not in everyone’s nature. Walky’s not really the type that blows up and gets mad – we’ve seen him get that angry, what, once? When he found out Asher called the cops on Sal? And that dissipated out again once he’d punched Asher, after which he was in prolonged shock that he’d gotten angry enough to lash out at someone. He’s upset, but being angry isn’t cathartic or common for everyone.
Walky doesn’t have to be blow up mad at Dorothy or Joyce but it would be healthy to call them out on their treatment towards him and expect some fraction of the same respect and remorse they give towards Becky who despite her history as Joyce’s friend has no rightful claim to be angry over a relationship with someone who has already turned her down with no chance of reciprocation. Right now they are both taking advantage of Walkys calm nature and not caring about his feeling at all which make them terrible as his friends. I know Dorothy acknowledges she hurts him but it’s pointless if she makes no real effort to correct it.
Yes, exactly. Walky doesn’t get angry much, and when he does, it’s always on behalf of someone else, not himself. I can’t think of one time when he’s gotten angry on his own behalf. That may not be healthy, but that’s who he is, at least at this stage of his life.
I think Walky isn’t outwardly mad because he’s just cramming it all down like he did with Mike’s death. Hence the Death By McNuggets maneuver.
I expect we’ll see his true feelings on the matter soon, though probably not as soon as I’d love to. His (honest) reaction is one of the ones I’m most interested in, given how much Dorothy was trying to get him back just a few days ago.
i had a thought that he maybe going to hang with dina and amber to paly video games and share the nuggets with him, and that is what will set him off and get him angry, he’s going to see what happened to amber. maybe he will blame joyce and dotty and the drama lovers will be happy. i absolutely see him having a harder time controlling his anger when it is on the behalf of someone else (also easient way to get me mad, do stuff to someone else when i am near, i dont even have to know the victim)
I know it was a typo, but I really like the word easient, in this context. I see it as a noun. An easient: A means to make something psychologically easier.
Walky doesn’t usually do mad, or hasn’t so far. Wonder if he’s repressing like crazy or if he’s just honestly not the “getting angry” type.
His telling Dorothy “I’m not mad, just disappointed ” would really cut her I think, considering her self worth is on being a good person, among other things
It’s entirely possible that Walky doesn’t even know that he’s been “cheated on” (yet). He knows that Dorothy dumped him (again) for Joyce, but nobody said anything (that we saw) about them doing anything together prior to Joyce’s announcement that she had won. Unless he’s seen the newspaper (which doesn’t seem terribly on brand for him), or someone pointed it out or mentioned it to him, for all he knows, Dorothy did nothing more than realize she wanted to be in a relationship with Joyce.
I suspect Booster at least skims the newspaper, then leaves it — or at least the comics page — in the dorm room for Walky. Maybe, at least in this case, the entire paper’s there but left open to the comics page so Walky can check the front page if he hears about it and wants to confirm, but not be confronted with it otherwise.
I don’t think that’s wierd at all? That’s walky’s character. He has always been really bad at standing up for himself, and asserting himself in general. He avoids conflict and puts himself last, avoiding problems and minimising himself as much as he can to reach that goal.
It’s why I like him so much, he plays it off to everyone around him that he’s doing alright, while never really getting or doing anything he wants.
I do also personally think that the cheating aspect is like, extremely nothing, especially to him. The part that feels more tangibly mean is the way dorothy treats him so tangibly as the backup option. When the thing she actually wants isnt something she can get, walky’l do.
What does the whiteboard say though? Something about girls banged? I can’t make it out if it’s a message to Dorothy from Becky revealing she already knows.
Dina probably wouldn’t take offense, though. It’s making a factual claim (if in colloquial terms) and appending a complimentary superlative.
She might, however, argue that Becky hasn’t done a large enough study to safely reach the latter conclusion.
they’ve gotten off pretty scot free so far. Sarah’s the only one to chastise either of them so I’m expecting Becky to meltdown at Dorothy and Joyce to hurt Becky by taking Dorothy’s side over her by saying something mean.
While I’d like it if more people are upset with Joyce and Dorothy’s recent shitty behavior like Sarah, at this point I wouldn’t be surprised if Becky isn’t nearly as bothered by this as people are expecting.
when the extent of their interaction is Joyce going “I WIN YOU LOSE HAHAHAHA” and then they run off yeah. Joyce would probably steal half of Walky’s nuggets too and all the sauce. He doesn’t get to rip Joyce a new one or lash out at dorothy for mistreating him yet again.
Walky eating depression nuggets is sad for him, but does not currently impact Dorothy and Joyce. On the Dorothy/Joyce end, they each got through their break up with Joe saying he was fine with the kiss and getting put on hold, and Joyce rubbing it in Walky’s face while Walky just sighed he should have seen it coming. Walky and Joe are clearly hurt–Joe about Joyce leaving him in limbo, not the fact that she kissed Dorothy– and dealing with it as best they can. But both boyfriends who got cheated on basically assumed responsibility for the situation: Joe set it up, he wanted Joyce to have what she wants, and the fact that Joyce cheated only came up because Joe got exasperated about Joyce denying that she was a hussy who wanted multiple people, not because he was mad that she did the cheating. And Walky said he should have expected it and then got left in the echo of Joyce’s laughter before going off to eat nuggets in a “welp, that happened, here’s how I get over it” phase.
Jennifer got some backhanded scoldings in, but she didn’t really care. She’s not angry or annoyed or even disappointed, she’s just observing that their revelation was good, but messy. Heck, even Sal just shrugged and said it was basically as normal for them when she saw them kissing.
Sarah is the only one who has looked them in the face and said that they did something WRONG. Because they did. They knew it. Joyce didn’t know Joe was ok with her and Dorothy, and kissed Dorothy anyway, and has been trying to justify her way out of how wrong that was ever since. Dorothy knew it would hurt Walky. And the only one to really acknowledge that so far and give them any real pushback on their behavior is Sarah.
I’d say that’s getting off pretty scot free on Dorothy and Joyce’s end thus far. Joyce was basically told she can have her cake and eat it too by Joe–the conclusion of that is still uncertain, but we’re talking about so far– and Joycegot to viciously dump Walky for Dorothy and all they had to hear was he should have known.
we can still get mess and chaos for joyces family as well. but so far the have the Lady’s pull for sure (a luck phrase from the Malazan book of the fallen series)
Because both prior relationships in question had existed for a week, maybe less, in actual comic time. These aren’t months or years long investments, but yes due to the pacing it may feel that way to us.
This is what confuses me about this line of thinking. If you decided to give a guy a try for a week but then realised your buried feelings for your best friend were mutual that you’ve been sitting on ever since you met her, and that led to a big kiss before either of you had broken up with your boyfriends, then
A. Why would it make sense for two week-long relationships to warrant vitriolic pushback on having kissed someone both boyfriends knew their respective girlfriend was wild about
2. Why would the wider friend group be expected to treat them like scum of the earth and accost them verbally? It already felt massively out of character for Sarah, and seems to have been spurred by her feeling ashamed for having judged Joe so strongly mixed with viewing Joyce as a smol bean incapable of true duplicitous behaviour.
It’s just so strange that so many people are out for blood here, and I can only assume that’s because of either prior personal baggage with cheating, or never having been in more than one or two relationships, or simply that the pace of the comic makes relationships feel much longer and deeper than they really should.
Well…I think some people might be out for blood because while the relationships were only ‘official’ for a week or less—they were built up emotionally for longer than that.
See, the argument is easily made that Joyce and Dorothy was a VERY long time coming and I would agree with that—however; we can’t just write off Walky and Dorothy as a few days fling’. They were previously together, and invested in each other. They were exes before they tried again, and a lot of emotional weight behind it.
Joe and Joyce had a distinct rapport, and Joe was realizing that rapport and how much he liked Joyce back when Jacob and him had that talk in the gym. ‘You’ll realize you missed out on something special—-ah fuck it’. I’m paraphrasing but you see what I mean? Yeah, in the zeitgeist of looking at it as official relationships? Barely long enough to throw out leftovers in the fridge.
In the expanse of interpersonal relationships and how we GOT there? Quite a bit longer in emotional investment.
If Joe and Joyce had just met and had been dating for like a week and a half, that’d be less of an issue.
However, Joe and Joyce have been building up as trusted confidants of each other and helping each other grow since before the timeskip.
As for Dorothy and Walky, she’s been being a romantic asshole to him basically for the entire strip.
Some people are out for blood, sure. But some of us just want a reaction that isn’t “eh, you two were destined anyway.” Aside from Sarah.
Not only does the time difference muddy the argument that the relationships were only a couple of weeks old because the audience has been invested in the relationships for much, much, longer than that, but cheating is still cheating. And ending a relationship is still hard, especially when you’re blindsided. I’m not a person who thinks that means Dorothy or Joyce have to be treated like scum by everyone they know. Shit happens, they’re young and they had a lot of feels to sort through, I get that, and their friends can deal with it and grow and still be friends with them. But aside from the fact that Joyce and Joe were built up for months and months, only to have their Big Night together immediately followed by Joyce kissing Dorothy, these reactions feel anticlimactic and, for lack of a better term “uniform?”
For the past…month, more?… the comic has been teasing that Dorothy and Joyce will have to face the aftermath of a decision they both knew was a shitty thing to do. Evil, NO, but not fair to their partners based on the information they had at the time. And now, it’s basically: what drama? What conflict? What mess? No one cares. It’s treated as obvious and therefore hardly worth noticing. Even Booster, shit stirrer drama lord extraordinaire had essentially no reaction.
The only person to have a reaction that isn’t “duh, of course” is Sarah. Literally everyone else, even Jennifer, get over it because “they were gayer than actual gay sex” anyway. And that feels so flat. Especially watching it happen over and over again, even when Joyce is choosing to be consciously unpleasant about it. Cheating aside, Joyce didn’t have to taunt Walky AS he was being dumped. But whatever, it’s just a punch line, Dorothy and Joyce have other things to do and Walky should have known, so go eat nuggets.
I guess, from my perspective, it’s frustrating because it’s all about Dorothy and Joyce. And I can hear people rolling their eyes, because obviously Joyce and Dorothy, and Joyce/Dorothy, are at the center of this arc. I get that. But it feels like everyone else–except Sarah– has spent the last strips not reacting as varied people who might have differing perspectives on the kiss due to being one of the girls’ partners, or having experience with cheating before, or even just surprised because knowing and having it ground into your face mid-break up are different things, but instead brushing all of that aside to reaffirm Dorothy/Joyce as Ultimate Endgame with “well, it was obvious”. Joyce and Dorothy stress, only to be met time and again with a shrug. Personally I’d kinda like to see something that shows that Dorothy and Joyce’s actions impact other people more than “oh dear, I guess that relationship is over. Maybe. If Joyce gets back to Joe. Or tells Dorothy about Joe’s opinion.” Or “Sigh, I guess I have to be nice to Walky now. Wow, Joyce sure bags a lot of hot people.”
Is Willis building up to a Big Reaction from Becky? Very probably! But right now it feels a bit like treading water. Stuff is happening, but ever since the Big Dramatic Kiss Moment, it’s felt very…one note, despite multiple characters being involved.
And another element, as least for me, is that other potentially very dramatic and interesting story beats keep getting pushed back to focus on Dorothy and Joyce as a couple, it was so obvious.
I was so excited when I thought Joyce left Joe because she thought Jocelyn had been outed to their parents in the newpaper. It’s a thread of the previous storyline that felt very strong. But now it seems as if Joyce was only worried about the newspaper because of the kiss, which has now been dealt with in a couple strips concluding it’s too late now.
Dorothy was very fired up about what happened to Amazigirl. And she was about to tell Joyce, she was visibly worried about it. But then Joyce made a shower joke, and we never saw Dorothy tell Joyce or Joyce’s reaction. It went straight to them dumping the boys. So now that plot thread, with a lot of potentially interesting emotional repercussions, is on hold, and I’m not even sure what Joyce knows about it.
This is not to say Willis is a bad writer and shouldn’t be writing this, I know that’s been a problem. I’m sure there are big payoffs planned. I’m just trying to explain why it’s difficult for some people now, completely separate from “Joyce and Dorothy are terrible people who deserve terrible things and no happiness why isn’t everyone chasing them with pitchforks?”
That’s been my issue lately too. So many things seeming like they’ll lead somewhere, then it’s back to Joyce and Dorothy being DoJo again, when practically the only thing new about that is the kissing; they’ve arguably had the longest relationship depicted in the comic, for all that they’ve only realised it recently.
Of course, that’s really not all that’s happening, but it sometimes feels like it.
Dorothy as “perfect cinnamon roll” doesn’t really scan. That designation always screams “cutesy” and “endearing” and “comforting” to me, which doesn’t fit Dorothy’s brand.
Dorothy is (or at least WAS for most of the comic’s run before her recent Screw The Rules album perspective shift) very go-getter, very hardworking and know-it-all. She had many qualities Joyce could admire but “perfect cinnamon roll” doesn’t really capture any of them.
I’d say Dorothy is more like a pristine Millefuille (sp?). Something fancy and impressive that clearly took a lot of work.
I don’t really think “perfect cinnamon roll” really has that specific qualification. It’s more of a term for anything one thinks it’s the best thing ever and can do no wrong. But even if it was that specific Dorothy can ve pretty damn cute if the situation allow it so i think she fits either way, at least from Hoyce perspective ( i don’t know what i wrote so much about this)
See, I’ve only ever seen the term applied to people/characters/animals that are beloved in a specific way: nonthreatening, all-loving, broadly kind and good-natured to all they meet. A friendly golden retriever is a perfect cinnamon roll.
Maybe my definition is too narrow but that’s pretty much the only version I’ve seen over the years. And I think it would apply more easily to Joyce herself than to Dorothy!
same, i’ve seen it used in cutesy dialog between paramours, regardless of anyones cutenes/wholesomeness. (i also think alan davies ws introduced using the phrase on QI onces)
Either a joke about how Joyce doesn’t know the correct connotations or to hint that she sees Dorothy’s behavior though rose tinted glasses would ne my guesses.
I have been tolerantly amused by the bawdy antics of these young rapscallions thus far, but if they hurt my precious babies Becky and Dina I am going to fucking lose it.
They haven’t even been particularly bawdy. If the world is going to revolve around them for the next few stories, they could at least have the decency to actually get bawdy with it. Joyce hasn’t grabbed Dorothy’s ass even once!
I know it’s off-topic, but I followed the link in your name and have to ask…
What’s the reason for that apparent recent trend of putting someone’s action in one paragraph and their words in the next, possibly followed by an entirely different person’s action?
For example: “Well?” asked the princess, as her attendants swarmed around and began to help disrobe her. “What do you think?” Across the room, perched elegantly on a settee, the Duchess Melisandre raised an eyebrow.
“I would not presume to judge, Your Imperial Highness.” Daria stuck out her tongue, and blew a raspberry.
To me, this makes it look like Daria’s the one claiming not to presume to judge, because she’s the only one mentioned in the latter paragraph, but it seems to actually be Melisandre… and, with this being the first interaction after the ceremony, I thought at first that they’d done the old trick of having the princess and someone else exchange roles in case of regicidal attempts.
It belatedly occurred to me that people might misinterpret that disrobing part of the quoted text, so to clarify: the princess was just being liberated from her overly elaborate formalwear, and nothing salacious was occurring.
Just wanted to give advance warning so people wouldn’t be disappointed.
Personally, my solution would be to just replace “brother” with “sibling” in all of the contact names. It both a) keeps the original numbering scheme intact, and b) future-proofs it against any future revelations.
She pretty clearly has anxiety about that stuff tho cuz of how much dumb shit she’s told/asked affected people directly.
And her peers make fun of her for it all the time so it makes sense she’d eventually just stop doing it, even though she should probably still just call her sister and ask directly
There are forums for asking these kinds of questions but I can state from experience that it gets exhausting for trans people to constantly be fielding these sorts of questions all the time, and it helps immensely for people who care about us to do their own research ahead of time.
Becky living so deeply and rent free in the Dorothy x Joyce relationship space that we’re now commenting they can’t make out in the privacy of their room. This will never not bother me.
I don’t think Joyce is impying dumbness is related to being male, but is basically overthinking whether the usual ‘joking sibling insults’ she’s used to doing would be considered insulting.
saw a post yesterday about the idea of joe giving off egg vibes and i do kinda get it.
They linked a comment where he says he doesn’t want to be a “gross man” which is a great start, but aside from that I just kinda think his overall arc has a lot of potential for it. He doesn’t want to be Like His Dad and so throws himself into a different, but still shallow facade of masculinity to try to fit in, but ultimatley can’t stick with it.
I think in general, a storyline about *someone* in the dorm activley figuring out they are trans would go a long way, and just kinda be a fun direction. Once this polycule plot resolves one way or another, it could be a pretty interesting direction to send Joe.
Of course, walky is the other one people talk about, and I think he would work too. His general dissociation from life and the people around him and all of his problems is a good start. He doesn’t seem to care much about his own sense of masculinity, and is clearly listless in a lot of ways. And with him being kinda written away from the joyce/dorothy dynamic, it could also work to help him have more to do.
My thing is, yes, you could analyze Joe and Walky from a trans lens and come away with some relatively substantial findings, but I don’t think from a character standpoint I don’t think either of them would be interesting to me having a trans arc, Joe least of all. I think his arc definitely works best with him as a cis man.
I push this agenda a lot but I would genuinely love to see Danny realize that she’s trans, both because she’s been kind of stagnant for a while, because I see a lot of myself as an egg in her, and because her whole arc has been centered on self-discovery and self-actualization in a way that Walky and Joe haven’t necessarily (or at least not to the same degree or in the same way – Walky has been struggling with encountering real adult challenges like poor grades and relationship trouble for the first time in his life, while Joe’s arc has been all about overcoming his insecurities and the toxic and harmful ways he manifested to cope with them, and becoming a better man in the process).
I’m also a little ambivalent to trans Walky bc he’d just end up identical to Sal, even more than he already does, and I just find that a bit boring.
There aren’t that many men in this comic in general, and I think if we were gonna see a someone realizes they’re trans storyline I’d prefer it be one of the folks who are currently presenting as girls. Especially since two of our three trans characters we currently have are trans women. I do not have a good sense of who that would be aside from the fact that Malaya is actively having that arc in front of us.
Carla and Jocelyne, each to a certain extent, represent trans women who are already open and living as their authentic selves after having already gone through the process of realization and understanding that they are women. I want to see that process play out for one of the main cast, and because I am a trans woman, I would prefer it be someone assigned male at birth.
NGL as a trans guy theres’s a little part of me that would actually like if we got a trans-masculine Dina arc (I’ve been thinking this ever since she ‘masc-ed herself up’ as an experiment)
But due to various knock-on effects that would cause I am so sure that’ll never happen.
I dunno, I kind of think that watching characters navigate that kind of thing might be interesting. As someone with a little bit of experience in this, I find the “can you get grandfathered in because the emotional attachment is more important once things are in motion or is orientation inflexible” thing really interesting.
Firstly, this is specfically a comic About the girls wing of the dorm primarily, which is why the girls are the main actual focus. I have no particular issue with adding transmasc people to the roster, but I think the actual specific existing trans women have some shortcomings.
Notably both of them we meet way after they figured it all out, so that aspect of the narrative is lost, and more notably, neither are major characters. Unless jocyelyn gets a reason to stick around longer than normal, she is going to be an infrequent precsence, and Carla is largely used for comic relief and small storylines, rarely being the main focus of the narrative for long
personally I see danny as the singular person in the cast who has like… acutally found a sense of self that he is confident in? He’s like actually happy, and doesn’t really read to me as having any particular trans vibes. He’s like, a dweeb and kinda effeminite but I never really felt any of that as compelling reasoning.
This is a pretty good example though of why trying to argue Against a trans read is a little pointless in media. Being trans means different things to different people and so as a result, different things are going to read AS trans.
I think all of these characters work with arcs where they are men. obviously, because the story is currently presenting them as such. I just think it’s interesting to consider how an arc about them becoming trans would play out, and what narrative threads would be pulled on. (Like the comic of joe saying he hates being a (gross) man.
Suet said: “Girls banged: 1. the best one
Becky has only banged Dina, who is therefore the best one.
The existence of 1. implies there *might* be others?!?
doesn’t have to be. I can fully buy Dina and Becky being emotionally monogamous but who knows maybe they’ll try swinging.
Becky is a semi-open horndog for a multitude of characters and Dina doesn’t seem like the type of character who’d care for sexual exclusivity or at the very least would be willing to try just to see how it would affect their relationship similar to their other experiments
I guess it could hypothetically imply you don’t fully support their decision to transition but we know Joyce is simply using it for sibling ribbing so it should be fine.
Basically she saying is now that she knows her sibling is Trans, does that mean calling a Trans person dumb is transphobic, or is treating her sibling different by not teasing them transphobic.
Should she? I don’t think she’s much less ignorant about queer matters than Joyce is. She’s self aware enough to say “I’m not really sure.” and look stuff up, bug I don’t know if she’s the type to research us unprompted.
Story from a long time ago: Because of Orphan Black I changed my siblings in my phone to Sestra and Sestra-Brother. When the latter came out as genderqueer, I never had to change their contact name!
For those who haven’t seen it, one character is Ukranian, hence the different word for “sister”. There’s also a brother to one of the main characters who is in on all the secrets. So the main character tells the Ukranian character that he’s one of them, he’s to be counted as a sister. So the Ukranian character declared him a Brother-Sestra. (I had it flipped so my siblings could be next to each other in my phone)
I wonder if this’ll lead into their first marital spat, Joyce often puts Dot on a pedistal but being perceived as flawless is something Dot actively dislikes given how many people use it as an insult towards her.
I could even see it lead into something sort of mirroring The Graduate’s ending, where the high emotions and butterflies finally wind down and the reality really crashes in that they both have people in their mind that don’t truly reflect the other. And all the potential colleteral they created getting where they are right now instead of just. Having an honest talk from the very beginning to get their honest feelings sorted.
(not to imply this relationship is destined to crash and burn, just that i think this could lead to an argument and added anxiety before even growth for them both to become less co-dependant of one another)
It would be nice if that is something the story addresses. Joyce has spent so much time seeing Dorothy as this sacred person who she has to fight others for access to but at the same time did briefly get frustrated with Dorothy being overbearing.
Someone please correct me if I’m wrong, but wouldn’t it be better/safer to choose a gender neutral nickname just in case of parents seeing it on the screen or borrowing the phone? Something like Jabroni.
Oh Sweet Cinnamon Roll
Perfect with your sticky scroll
Let my proboscis lap your rim
Then we as lovers swim
In the heady gentian ponds
As we hymn a cinnamon song
All Siblings are Dumb, take it from me, besides dumb sister is a fun thing to have, not that I have one, no I am one to my eldest brother (Can’t vouch for my middle brother given he is non-verbal and refuses to use sign language, but would like to think he sees me as his sister)
I hope Becky doesn’t care too much and Joyce and Dotty come to understand they dont have to keep trying to be sneaky and can face their moraly reprehensible actions seriously.
Love this comic, I was excited to see how the otp would manifest, and was thoroughly entertained by the shenanigans as usual, but it’s weird no longer loving Joyce and Dorothy and I’m very much looking forward to not focusing on them as much tbh.
I was so sad about the perspective on Patreon yesterday y’all ngl. We finally had a break from the dry toast into interesting stuff like Walky coping poorly (and hopefully crashing out once we get a few more strips of him)
When the site was slow to load recently (but not actually down), I went off and did something else. when I came back to it, it had (goodness knows what I did) jumped to some random strip. It featured Booster answering the door to Dorothy looking for Walky, and Booster being snarkily analytical. Needless to say, it could easily have been the next strip. I was confused for a while by the one that came after!
Dorothy, I would think “do I treat my trans sibling basically the same as before she told me she’s trans, just with different pronouns” would be a fairly easy question. Yes, you do generally want to do that.
(with, y’know, some awareness of what being trans can entail and all. but if your dumb sibling is your dumb sibling you don’t gotta stop calling them dumb if they turn out to be a different flavor of sibling.)
rereading from the start and I thought it was hilarious (when this page first came out) that I remembered this page when I was rereading because I saw Dotty named that in Joyce’s phone. ~<3
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Well Joyce, the question is if you still think she’s dumb
All siblings are dumb, whether they actually are or not. That’s why they’re your siblings.
If my brother and sister were smart they would have managed to pick a better sibling than me, that’s for sure.
Impeccable logic is impeccable.
Nods in Claire and Clinton.
Seriously, I put a lot of weight on how a webcomic’ siblings interact. It’s one reason QC and Between Failures are on my top tier.
Bigger question – is Dorothy still too good for this world, too pure?
Hey, dumb older siblings never stop being dumb older siblings. She can be dumb AND your sister.
Don’t trust cinnamon.
I heard that
I could fucking go for some Cinnabon right now come to think
That would be “Roll, Perfect Cinnamon”.
Cinnamon is completely trustworthy. It’s spider you should keep an eye on.
Especially if it challenges you.
They can make out just a lil bit. No one has to know.
And then Becky finds out by walking in on them making out on her bed
They have indeed shown very little ability to keep their hands off of each other and I am here for that but even I think that’d be … a little much to ask Becky to handle. xD
But it would be a perfect parallel to how Becky got outed.
(Becky walks in. “Goshdangit, Joyce, did you not HEAR ME when I said you lock the door when you’re going to do these sorts of things???”)
Becky will probably react like Joe and Walky, “oh it’s about time, everyone knew it but you two.”
And then she’ll crow about how she and Dina are better at lesbiating than Joyce and Dorothy could hope to be, and were even on their first try. This will lead to Dorothy postponing sexytimes to go engage in a massive research project so she can be sure of doing it right. Joyce, frustrated at the delay, ends up banging Joe while waiting for Dorothy to be done. Becky grins a shit-eating fox grin the whole time, while Dina looks on, eating cereal by the handful like popcorn.
I am looking forward to Becky giving Dorothy and Joyce “how to lez” lessons.
Lezons if you will.
Dina would spontaneously manifest with the charts and slide deck.
all that sounds like a good prediction 😀
I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
The best way to find out.
if they start making out it’ll probably summon her instantly, so it’s in their best interest to do that so they can have the conversation sooner!
Excellent logic. Clear and on-point.
More likely they’ll find out Dina has been there the whole time.
I don’t think they can’t make out too much in there, not until their eyes adjust.
Since when does a good make out session rely much on eyes? Lots of gentle touchy-feely exploration in the dark sound great to me.
it’s a silly wordplay I couldn’t figure out how to frame correctly
“It’s too dark, I can’t make out much in here!”
Dorothy has taken off her jacket
She’s ready
Of course, taking a nap at lioness cave, when she’s outside. What wrong can happen, right?
Does that mean the brother currently listed as ‘dumb brother #3’ gets promoted?
I suspect Joyce never actually had Jordan’s number to begin with. Or that if she did, Jordan has changed it since going no-contact with the ‘rents.
Jordan is such a fascinating enigma. We really need to meet him.
Who knows, maybe we have? Maybe he’s Asma now
Asma? Who’s that? 😉
(that’s what we call a “callback”, friends!) 😀
I believe it’s a lung disease 🤢. Just kidding I know there’s an”h” in that one
Well if that’s the case then congratulations on her transition but I need to have a word with her about the brownface
Wasn’t she born Brown? (I’ll see myself out)
*slow clap*
So who would be Dumb Sister #1, and who would be #2? Do we go by the order they transitioned, age, or by the sequence Joyce met the real them?
Jordan’s like the older brother on Happy Days. He went upstairs in about the third episode and was never seen again.
Some say he’s still up there to this day!
Chilling with the youngest daughter from Family Matters.
Getting a tense feeling from the lack of Becky…
The funniest outcome to me is that Becky is just out on a date with Dina. Likely to church because I think it is Sunday in comic. Joyce maybe forgot that Becky still keeps her faith meaning she goes to church regularly.
Well Dorothy did just say “we’ll see if Becky’s back from church yet” so I doubt Joyce forgot, unless Dorothy just now reminded her
Ooh, I’ve got one. Keeping in the theme of church—Becky’s already seen the front page and had time to pray on it during service. Knowing that faith played in a role of Becky shrug it off annoys Joyce. If we’re keeping this sore winner thing going.
Oh, yes, Becky has been really going over the top with her jealousy of Dorothy and her possessiveness of Joyce, and how rude she was to Joyce about being autistic and having had sex. “Let’s watch Joyce go ballistic.” But also she was decent to Dorothy during her crisis and seemed to already know what was going on. Becky is going to be obviously fine with it just to annoy them.
Joyce beating Walky for Dorothy’s affections only for Becky to be the new final boss in annoying her is wild in 2025.
I’ll raise you this- Becky sees the page, and decides to visit Dina for a bit after church, rather than risk walking in on any hanky panky that ran over the time window. B&D go out to give Amber quiet, get distracted, and forget about Joyce and Dorothy. J&D panic when Becky is late, and go off on a wild goose chase. B&D return to find they’ve got the room to themselves, and decide to make use of it, as AG shouldn’t be going out for a while.
J&D return, and end up walking in on B&D hanky panky. No one knows whether to be more relieved or annoyed. Comedic awkwardness ensues.
Perfect, well thought out
Jump cut to church, where Becky is currently flip/flopping between trying to pry veloci-Dina off the screaming (possibly guest) pastor covered in bite marks and joining in, because he decided to use the front page of the paper to preach against how bein’ gay leads to other immorality in today’s sermon.
Surely Becky attends United Church of Christ or something similar.
What a church nominally says they believe is only as good as the impulse control of the most recent conservative maniac to find themselves standing at the pulpit with the opportunity to try wresting control of the minds of the community. And sometimes they succeed in dragging the whole congregation back a century, when they find the right weak spot to attack! This of course also tends to result in a church schism and a large portion of the congregation leaving for good, but as they say the devil will always find it better to reign in hell than serve in heaven.
That’s really only true in certain Protestant sects. Many denominations have much more organization. You’re not going to walk into a new to you Episcopalian church, for example, and find wildly different dogma being taught than in the one you’re used to.
Well that’s good for them if they can maintain that. My mom did a lot of religion shopping throughout my life and I got kinda over-exposed to different denominations in different states of being and as an adult I personally watched a Unitarian Universalist church go completely off the rails when they lost their minister and literally elected someone from the internet to be the president remotely and preach the latest hot takes via big screen video conference. In all those cases though people were clearly just chasing vibes, not meaning, so if there are ways to make your church about something more substantive I applaud the people who have achieved it.
The United Church of Christ is as a denomination pro-LGBT.
@Dot: probably not. I don’t think we’ve seen anything of Becky’s church preferences since we saw her go with Joyce last semester, but she still seemed to be more focused on the aesthetics.
God loves me no matter what anybody’s doctrine, so, honestly, I prefer the guitars.
We already saw Dina in her room while Becky had already left, so she’s almost certainly not at church with Becky. I don’t think it’s likely that she’d abandon wounded Amber to go on a date at this point, either.
Reminder that was Dorothy contact nnae BEFORE they started kissing eaxh other. Girl was so obvious you could see from the moon.
That reminds me, Dorothy really needs to ask Joyce if she liked the titty pic.
I bet Joyce enjoyed Billie’s pic.
She could crawl in and be safe and warm forever.
Though, seriously, her reaction to Billie’s tits was, “Huh, weird, why did Dorothy send me a picture of Jennifer’s boobs?” while her reaction to Dorothy’s tits was,
Kernel panic: system haltedWell, that’s the problem with a story that’s a comedy and everything is part of a joke. You have little idea which things you’re supposed to take seriously and treat with realism and which things are exaggerated for comic effect and you’re supposed to ignore the implications of.
That’s not a problem tho. That is actually part of the charn.
Nah, Strain is right. And sometimes “charm” is in the eye of the beholder.
I’m pretty sure calling people dumb is gender-neutral.
I’m pretty sure that calling people dumb has led to people unable to vocalise having to move to the term “mute”.
That’s not a dig at Kyulen, just a general observation as to the result of this change in language!
Linguistic drift sure is nifty.
My non-caffeinated eyes first saw that as “linguistic drift sure is nutty” and I totally agreed. Then I drank the coffee, and then I saw the “nifty”. And, yeah, I still totally agree. You’re right on both counts (your actual words and the one I foisted off onto you via my hallucinations).
Out of curiosity, I checked this
https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=mute
https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=dumb
It’s… confusing. “mute” meaning “unable to speak” cropped up by the mid 15th century, but “dumb” is more convoluted; ‘In English the meaning “foolish, ignorant” was occasional in Middle English, but the modern use in this sense (since 1823) seems to be from influence of German dumm, especially in Pennsylvania German.’, but the full text of the latter link shows it as messier than that.
that makes sense, Dutch uses “stom” to mean mute, but can also be used to mean something along the lines of calling someone “foolish/ignorant/annoying”
(i only mention it because Dutch developed from west germanic)
The Pennsylvania Dutch are called that because the stupid English couldn’t pronounce “Deutsche”, they’re actually German.
I did not know that, and: lolsob
As far as I know, the words Dutch and Germanic/German used to be much more vague and interchangeable in English. Dutch used mean pretty much “Germanic”. Only later the two words became specified to refer to people from the Netherlands or Germany (historically, for a long time there wasn’t a clear-cut united Germany anyway, so it referred more to Germanic people).Calling the Dutch Dutch is a peculiarity of the English language anyway, in other languages it sounds nothing alike.
Either way, Dutch is a West Germanic language, so there’s a similarity between the Dutch “stom” and the German “stumm”.
Well come on, look at the word “absurd” for comparison, it literally means “from that which does not answer”. Our language shows that in the past people simply didn’t bother distinguishing between the concepts of “this is stupid” and “I can’t understand this”, and you can still see it in action if you go on twitter today.
It may be less confusing if you consider dumb became a synonym for stupid because of the assumption that mute people are intellectually disabled.
If Joyce wants to avoid ableism the choices are pretty much limited to “Asshole sister 1”
Sliding timescale means Joyce probably shouldn’t get that reference anymore.
Neither does most people on the internet who use it
Well that’s the thing right? Most people who use it are older gen z and millennials who remember the original onion article or have at least heard of it. I don’t really think of Joyce as particularly online, and it’s not slang that people that age use anymore.
She does use Facebook that’s how she becane friends with Sarah’s sister nad they are plenty of okder people there.
Facebook does not count as being particularly online, frankly
I didn’t say it was? Just the particularly kind of online where she could had gotten a older people reference and adopted it in her vocabulary.
Then there is too old! I had not seen it and now I have, I still don’t know what it is about. Looking it up led me to a page purportedly written by a baker but was actually a hilarious mish mash of stuff about character traits, dogs and baking: all repeating paragraphs of really bad AI burble!
I love it when “older people” are so much younger than me!
What reference?
https://theonion.com/beautiful-cinnamon-roll-too-good-for-this-world-too-pu-1819576048/
Thanks. I like the Onion, but I completely forgot about that article in the years since it was first posted.
Oh thank you I had no idea. It was just a cute thing people said. People who are too online and speak in incomprehensible non sequiturs.
I didn’t even know it was originally an Onion article.
Nor me.
Dang, it’s been that long. We’re all tumblr grandparents now, aren’t we?
Still, the zoomers randomly necro’d loss a decade later, cinnamon rolls could make a come back.
When I signed up for Facebook (I burned the account when it got big, and went to Livejournal/Tumblr), it required a .edu email address. I’m the internet version of that Captain America “I understood that reference” joke.
I’m guessing they mean the perfect cinnamon roll meme, although Joyce’s version seems to have twisted it?
She hasn’t “twisted” it, she just has her listed surname first.
Ah. Gratzi. That makes sense.
Yean, what?
Perfect cinnamon roll, too good for this world, too pure.
Cinnamon Roll is still very much a thing.
I hate you for pointing out that a meme that appeared twenty years after I first logged onto the internet is now too old for some people to get.
Look I’m turning 30 tomorrow, we all feel old here.
Oh my sweet summer child
Let me have this
Oh, cool, cool, I’m a decade and a half older than you. Cool. Go to hell. Cool.
😉
You’re not actually old until the kids around you start complaining about being old.
^_^
Not me, I’m only 32. Twenty years ago, people in my class were complaining about “feeling old”, and it doesn’t seem like much has changed. You’re born, you’re old, and then you die, with no room for youth.
I’ll be the arbiter of all transgender women and say yes, it’s transphobic to drop the dumb.
I’ll give Dorothy credit, saying “I don’t know” rather than being Joyce’s personal Google concierge is progress.
Let it ROLL, baby, roll.
All night long.
Roll me, baby
Like you roll a wagon wheel
Dang I cannot keep track of days here, that’s why they hadn’t found her yet, it’s SUNDAY and so CHURCH. Okay.
Also yeah she can still be dumb. Dumb dumb dumb you’re not dumb she’s dumb or wait no according to the strip title you’re all dumb
it’s not really a condumbdrom is what i’m saying
right???? like
XD it ain’t rocket science she ya fuckin sister Joyce! XD
She us new to this ok!
Yeah, that’s a common phenomenon in this discussion, hence all the folks thinking Joyrothy are being horrible, irresponsible people for not having a long adult discussion with everyone. They forget the Big Smooch happened literally yesterday afternoon, and all parties concerned are about 19 or 20 (not an age noted for calm, wise decision-making).
I honestly think Becky should (and may) be offended that they both thought she’d be jealous while being in a committed relationship with Dinah.
She is, though.
Dating someone else doesn’t make your feelings for the girl you’ve been in love with for years magically disappear.
I mean if anything it’ll probably open an old wound given Joyce was Becky’s first crush for years and years while only getting resolved a couple months ago
And as far as they were both concerned, the only reason they didn’t work out was because Joyce was straight. But then in comes Dot and Joyce suddenly has a gay awakening which might make Becky suddenly have to confront the idea that “oh hey maybe it wasn’t something fully out of my control, maybe Joyce just isn’t into me as a person specifically.” Which would probably make her feel atleast some way
Adding into this is just that Becky’s character arc last we saw her was freaking out over the concept that Gender and sensuality can be fluid (because what does that mean for her if she did “meet the right boy”? Would her dad never have kidnapped her and her friends on two separate occasions? Or if Dina does decide that shes not *really* a girl?) So the idea thar actually, Joyce could’ve fallen in love with a women, just turns out you weren’t the right woman, is gonna sting even if she is happy with Dina because its going to compound an issue she’s already dealing with.
Also let’s face it, Dina is more Joe’s friend than she is Joyce or Dorothy’s, so there will be sides being picked in all this.
Okay, but in regards to Joe there’s currently no evidence of there being a side to pick.
Still fucking weird that Becky is treated as the locus of any and all drama in this situation and Walky isn’t at all mad that Dorothy has mistreated him yet again
I wouldn’t be surprised if Becky is a lot less bothered by this than Joe and Walky, the people Joyce and Dorothy actually cheated on.
I mean, Joe literally wanted this.
Lets not confused “created the conditions for this” with “wanted.” I suspect Joe would much rather Joyce all to himself.
“I endorse you kissing Dorothy. Or you also doing other things, really.”
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2025/comic/book-16/01-not-so-smooth-criminals/endorse/
He also says the reason he’s saying he’s okay with it is because he knows he can’t compete with Dorothy and he doesn’t want to lose Joyce completely. He’s cutting off his thumb to keep the rest of the hand here.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2025/comic/book-16/01-not-so-smooth-criminals/everyones/
You look at that last panel and tell me he would much rather share his girlfriend with someone who’s disliked him since they were children.
….It just now occurred to me. Could it be Joe echoing the sentiment of what his mom used to say to his father pre-divorce? Before enough was too much? We know the idea of repeating his dad’s mistakes was always on Joe’s mind, so maybe he never considered it could go the other way.
We do not know this, he’s never said as much, and what he has said goes against that, while making MUCH more sense with his current behavior and willingness to try polyamory:
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2017/comic/book-7/04-the-do-list/shallow/
This is the closest we get to him ever saying his previous behavior had anything to do with his dad at all, and it’s only the latest attempt by Joe throughout the storyline to justify and minimize his behavior, because the apology donuts weren’t actually, at this point, about being sorry — they were about getting people to stop being mad at him.
You may also notice that this “excuse” (where actually it’s better for everybody if Joe dehumanizes women) is immediately followed by Joyce challenging his premise that not treating people as human beings = no one getting hurt: she tells him that dehumanizing mindset is exactly what got her hurt with “Ryan” and what she’s now afraid of, because she knows it was never only him operating that way.
Because that is what that storyline was about: the type of guy who views women as notches on a bedpost instead of as people, and how he got a wake up call about how shitty that was, and how he’s taken pains to unlearn that mentality.
He later tells Rachel he’s sorry, that he “thought [he] was being funny, but [he] wasn’t, so [he’s] stopping” (https://www.dumbingofage.com/2017/comic/book-7/04-the-do-list/oath/), and the very next storyline has him approach Amber to explicitly say he is trying to re-learn how to make friends and talk to people as people.
Further supporting links, separated out because of the spam filter:
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2017/comic/book-8/01-face-the-strange/whoa/
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2017/comic/book-8/01-face-the-strange/circumstances/
Anyway, I get why this theory makes sense to people, but it really seems SO completely at odds with the actual writing in the “Do” List storyline and after it.
Imagine a version of this scene where instead of saying he’s dehumanizing people because it’s better for everyone, Joe says he’s afraid of turning into his dad.
Even if you just imagine it’s what he was thinking when he said the other thing, would it not REALLY ruin everything about Joyce’s response? Would that not turn it into a nasty lecture she’s delivering against another traumatized person?
Yeah. I cannot imagine it was ever Willis’s intent for this to be Joe’s specific trauma. I think he has more generalized trauma around divorce (evinced when he kinda exploded at Joyce’s shitty mom), and a more general reluctance-to-enter-into-serious-relationships that is extremely typical of the children of divorce.
(We also don’t actually know that Joe’s mom forgave Richard’s cheating, and we definitely don’t have any indication that she tried to suggest polyamory — the OPPOSITE, if anything, since Joe wanted to hear that Richard had told Stacy theirs was going to be an open relationship: Joe pretty explicitly said he hoped his dad had done that, because anything else would lead to Stacy being hurt by Richard’s inevitable cheating.)
Let me add: I am emphatically NOT saying Joe wasn’t being shallow as a way of protecting his heart, I DO think that was part of it; I just think it was the, again extremely typical, reluctance of many children of divorce to try a more serious relationship.
I think him being afraid of turning into his dad would make sense, but I don’t think that was actually one of his fears, and I definitely don’t think it is at all textually supported that Joe’s mom ever tried an open relationship.
It’s a lot more ambiguous than that (and, I think, deliberately so, for drama reasons). Yes, maybe he’s taking the approach of “some Joyce is better than no Joyce”, but it’s entirely possible he’s familiar enough with all that poly stuff about “love shared is not love divided” and the like (although perhaps not familiar enough to know how difficult it can be).
Also, as browsing https://www.dumbingofage.com/tag/joe+dorothy/ indicates, he doesn’t seem to dislike Dorothy. At all. Of course, that doesn’t mean she doesn’t dislike him (and she’s made his annoyance at his behaviour pretty obvious), but she hasn’t particularly communicated any such dislike to him for quite a while.
See also https://www.dumbingofage.com/2025/comic/book-15/03-me-and-who-you-say-i-was-yesterday/assureyou/ – that 5th panel remark, while cutting, isn’t the sort of thing he’s likely to say to someone he’s on uneasy terms with unless he’s out to make an enemy (which he clearly isn’t). It’s more something to say to someone whose friendship status isn’t in doubt, so in context, it seems evident he’s confident they can get along even without gentle interactions.
None of the above is to say he’s right, just that, where a poly relationship is concerned, I don’t think the question of how he and Dorothy will get along is something he’s particularly worried about.
As to the last panel of your link: yes, he could be worried about sharing Joyce with Dorothy, but I see it more likely as him being concerned about not having yet gotten an answer. Or even sudden thoughts of what it could mean for Joyce and Dorothy to be outed, particularly given Joyce’s background… Like I said, ambiguous, but I doubt thoughts of Dorothy’s interactions with him in a possible future poly relationship are the main thing on his mind in that strip.
He wanted Joyce to have them both, but i think he would have prefered her being honest about her desires and have a conversation with him /before/ making out with Dorothy and then, because joyce cant do anything half-arsed, decided that the relationship she currently had must be taken to the back and shot
this is fully what i’m expecting, honestly. if anything i think she’ll be a little offended that they were so afraid to tell her
Walky isn’t mad because he expects it. He doesn’t think he deserves Dorothy and was always waiting for the shoe to drop. He’s right though – he deserves better
Yes I know but he should be mad! At some point he should be mad.
He should! I hope he develops the self esteem to be mad on his own behalf
Yes. He should be mad. Miffed, upset, frustrated everyone. I’ve been on this train for a while but I’ve got to assume it’ll happen randomly like the incident of him mentioning Mike.
Something will set him off on Dorothy—we just don’t know what or when.
I disagree. From the very start of their relationship, Dorothy has made it known that it wasn’t forever, and that it was mostly physical at that. The only reason they even got back together 4 days ago was pure hormonal urges.
She did, and then she told him that she loved him. She’s been really bad about giving Walky mixed signals in general.
This right here. Honestly, she’s just been really bad TO Walky in general.
You’re right that she said it wasn’t forever but it’s always been push and pull. She makes it clear it isn’t forever but then she says she loves him. She pushes him to go after Lucy and see where that leads, but then tries to get him to cheat on Lucy. He’s freed up and they are together again, but has a Freudian slip that she only sees him as “fun” (at least from his perspective). Then at the end of it all, she dumps him for Joyce.
Of course, in the back of his mind he always felt he didn’t deserve her but the push and pull has to be hurtful, right?
What the others have said, but also that I don’t think there’s any reason to think that it was ever “mostly physical”. It was supposed to be a “just for fun” relationship, but even at the start when she could still keep up that pretense, that’s not the same as “mostly physical”.
Always possible he’s thinking ‘good riddance,’ or was mulling over whether to dump Dorothy himself when Joyce saved him the effort. Not because of the cheating, but because Dorothy hadn’t changed, and/or he wasn’t happy about the relationship on offer.
Would love that to be the case!
Why? What good does anger do here?
It’ll make the current events at lot more interesting to watch, so far the whole things been quite tepid.
Agree. Why “should” he? He only “should” if he is in the monogamy camp, and one of the c-word people, for a 4 day rebound after a precious dumping in a young person fairly casual sexual relationship. And even than, why anger? why not resignation, or any one of a number of other feelings.
Are we back on naughty sinners who must be punished again?
Like, is Willis required to be the badly behaved God of the religion they had imposed on them, to their characters, or can they, you know, just, like, do what they want?
at the risk of getting involved in The Discourse about this arc, because it’s mostly been awful, but like. Walky’s character arc over the last decade-plus of comic has mostly been about him becoming less of a doormat, emotionally speaking. it’s been most prominent in his relationship with his sister and parents (i.e. finally standing up to his mom and actively trying to mend his relationship with Sal), but it applies to his romantic relationships, too. so, like, putting aside the weird moralizing of fictional teenagers for a moment, I do think it’s fair to wonder whether Walky is gonna actually stand up for himself here at any point
Yes, thank you, exactly.
Oh look, we’re back on “sinners need punished” instead of “oh, look, a lot of these characterizations have been bent/broken to make this event somehow even more boring and of less consequence every time it comes into focus” and “it’s pretty deeply unrealistic for NO ONE to have a really negative reaction to this”.
I mean, you COULD just keep focusing on the length of the most recent relationships and not on the long-building friendship/trust for Joe/Joyce or the multiple times now that Dorothy has strung Walky along and then dropped him like trash, but that’d be just as silly as the people who keep trying to pretend that Joyce/Dorothy haven’t been foreshadowed basically the whole strip.
Because precisely one character has been changed from her old characterization – Dorothy’s trauma has caused her to change from being a single-minded pursuer of the office of the President to being a muddled teenager like everyone else.
Joyce has been pretty clearly closeted from the beginning. Joe’s growing and changing, which happens a lot around that age (thank the gods, because 18yo me was even more insufferable than 62yo me). Walky… is Walky, he doesn’t want to take relationships seriously because he’s still a kid at heart, and he knew from the beginning that this was just rebound for both of them (hence his lack of surprise). The only way any of these characters can be “bent/broken” for this story is if you believe sincerely that even fictional characters are locked permanently into the people they were the day they graduated high school.
If “kid at heart” is your read on Walky, as opposed to “this guy goes out of his way to bury his problems under a goofball facade rather than deal with them”, I am not sure we’re seeing the same things in these characters enough to have a meaningful conversation.
I’m not sure that “characterizations have been bent/broken” is the best argument here. Any of these reactions are at least plausible. They’re not wildly out of character. They’re potential directions to take each individual.
But all of them seem to lean in the same direction: a character had valid reasons to be upset with Joyce and/or Dorothy over the cheating and the option they chose wasn’t that.
Other than Sarah, who was negative, but will almost certainly get over it (or be seen as unreasonable) now that Joe has been told and isn’t angry.
I’ve been largely playing up my reaction and boredom with this arc but oh my god if somehow Sarah ends up being presented as unreasonable I will crash the fuck out
“Bent” is more what I’m thinking than “broken”, except in the case of Joe — I STILL have a hard time swallowing him going from “I structured my entire relationship strategy around avoiding the possibility of cheating” to “Yeah, I’m cool with being cheated on and will roll with it instead of J&D taking the out I have been trying to hand them for weeks”.
I think it’s a bit silly to bring up arguments noone is making here. It doesn’t really make it seem like you’re coming at this in good faith.
Why does it need to do good? Why can’t it just be a particularly realistic response for a guy who’s been repressing his feelings more or less the entire strip to finally break in some way?
Interesting characterization! I like anger as a positive force. I feel like we were just talking about that too – in a different context (direct action) but finally getting angry for yourself when you’re used to holding back or repressing feelings can feel so good
How was your date?
Postponed until next Sunday I fear. I did get her number though.
Aw boo, but also yay!
Now we’re going to be in suspense all week!
Seriously, though, I hope it goes well. Getting her number is promising, anyway.
I mean, I get it from Joyce’s point of view. Becky has “caught” her bring a “hypocrite” (and/or liar) already when Joyce became an atheist, and after how precarious things have gone for the last x amount of months, I think Joyce is putting nearly all her stock in Becky’s approval. Becky is the one who knew her before college started, so Becky has the power to “approve” of the changes in Joyce’s life.
Quotations used for things that I don’t personally think are true or healthy but that I suspect Joyce has subscribed to in her own head.
It’s perfectly understandable to be worried about Becky’s reaction but I think it’s been given disproportionate narrative weight.
At this point I’ll be surprised if Becky is at all upset over the relationship minus the cheating because it looks like a joke about how they were worried over the wrong person is being set up and dragged out.
The problem with that is that everyone else directly involved has had a mild reaction too.
It will also be really hurtful for Becky, that Joyce was in fact bi but just not for her. Obviously Joyce doesn’t OWE her a romantic relationship but feelings don’t adhere to logic and it’s gonna hurt.
Even more hurtful if the poly relationship does happen and Joyce is with both Dorothy and Joe, but Becky still doesn’t have a chance.
As you said, she doesn’t owe her a relationship, and anyway, Becky has Dina (who, incidentally, is the best), but still…
walky has been in this relationship for four days, and it was barely a relationship to begin with. more of a rebound situation tbh
Dorothy is his first love and got back together with him immediately after he broke up with Lucy, after trying to get him to leave Lucy for her, after hooking him up with Lucy, and has now cheated on him and allowed Joyce to dump him by proxy. Perfectly reasonable to get mad about it.
Sadly, you must not understand Walky’s very character, if you believe that. If he ever does get “hurt feelings”, they’re are short term and quickly passes. The man is male Pollyanna; his positive outlook on the world overpowers all negatives.
This is simply not borne out by the narrative. He has been dealing with depression for months now.
Depression, not anger.
Ok? I’m saying that I want him to get angry, not that I think he currently is?
Why? Why angry?
Because he got cheated on. Because the girl his girlfriend cheated on him with mocked him for it and proclaimed her victory. Because his now ex didn’t even react to that at all.
A little “WTF, I deserve better than this” would a healthy sign.
Also cutting those two off so they don’t mess with him again would be a good thing.
i will simply say that i would argue till i am blue in the face (and so pretty in the eyes a great day for canada) about walky having a lot more emotional resilence and strength here, sure he’s hurt but there isnt anything that will be improved by gettign angry, so eat a shittonne of comfort food, watch/play his favorites and lose himself in positive feelings. (pretty much how i handled shit like that at that age). walky has often struck me as someone who doesnt see a point in getting mad, as for him it hasnt changed anything or gotten him anything, (i have never had a life event that my getting angry or mad did not make EXPONENTIALLY worse, so maybe i’m biased about anger)
Do you think that depression might be related to Mike’s death, less than a year ago?
He’s not, really. He represses and denies and hides what he’s really thinking and feeling in a screen of jokes and snark. I’m not sure if this Walky has the capacity for snapping into unchecked violence that the other one had — Linda didn’t get trauma assistance from H.A. in this universe —- but his basic personality and his defense mechanisms are the same.
Some people are like this but Walky is most assuredly not one of them. He just likes to diffuse with humor and not look directly at whatever’s upsetting him.
As someone who diffuses with humor and avoidance:
It’s really, really not much healthier.
Hey, just because he has crippling anxiety around genuinely expressing or talking about his feelings thanks to his family, doesn’t mean he hasn’t been ruminating on the death of his roommate and failure to be there for his friends ever since Halloween.
It’s reasonable to get mad about it, yeah, but it’s not in everyone’s nature. Walky’s not really the type that blows up and gets mad – we’ve seen him get that angry, what, once? When he found out Asher called the cops on Sal? And that dissipated out again once he’d punched Asher, after which he was in prolonged shock that he’d gotten angry enough to lash out at someone. He’s upset, but being angry isn’t cathartic or common for everyone.
Walky doesn’t have to be blow up mad at Dorothy or Joyce but it would be healthy to call them out on their treatment towards him and expect some fraction of the same respect and remorse they give towards Becky who despite her history as Joyce’s friend has no rightful claim to be angry over a relationship with someone who has already turned her down with no chance of reciprocation. Right now they are both taking advantage of Walkys calm nature and not caring about his feeling at all which make them terrible as his friends. I know Dorothy acknowledges she hurts him but it’s pointless if she makes no real effort to correct it.
Yes, exactly. Walky doesn’t get angry much, and when he does, it’s always on behalf of someone else, not himself. I can’t think of one time when he’s gotten angry on his own behalf. That may not be healthy, but that’s who he is, at least at this stage of his life.
I think Walky isn’t outwardly mad because he’s just cramming it all down like he did with Mike’s death. Hence the Death By McNuggets maneuver.
I expect we’ll see his true feelings on the matter soon, though probably not as soon as I’d love to. His (honest) reaction is one of the ones I’m most interested in, given how much Dorothy was trying to get him back just a few days ago.
i had a thought that he maybe going to hang with dina and amber to paly video games and share the nuggets with him, and that is what will set him off and get him angry, he’s going to see what happened to amber. maybe he will blame joyce and dotty and the drama lovers will be happy. i absolutely see him having a harder time controlling his anger when it is on the behalf of someone else (also easient way to get me mad, do stuff to someone else when i am near, i dont even have to know the victim)
I know it was a typo, but I really like the word easient, in this context. I see it as a noun. An easient: A means to make something psychologically easier.
exactly how my typos are meant to be taken!
Supporting evidence starts here, maybe: https://www.dumbingofage.com/tag/walky+asher/page/3/ (for Sal) and https://www.dumbingofage.com/2024/comic/book-14/02-its-the-love-i-havent-got/siblingesque/ (for Lucy; goes on for several strips). Though he wasn’t overtly angry in the latter, it was against his parents.
“Not all that mad,” trying to eat his own weigh in McNuggets.
That’s not anger, that’s him doing his usual coping mechanism. That’s depression.
I guess he could be chewing the McNuggets, like, REALLY hard…
You have to do that anyway, they’re the texture of leather.
. . . and?
Walky doesn’t usually do mad, or hasn’t so far. Wonder if he’s repressing like crazy or if he’s just honestly not the “getting angry” type.
His telling Dorothy “I’m not mad, just disappointed ” would really cut her I think, considering her self worth is on being a good person, among other things
It’s entirely possible that Walky doesn’t even know that he’s been “cheated on” (yet). He knows that Dorothy dumped him (again) for Joyce, but nobody said anything (that we saw) about them doing anything together prior to Joyce’s announcement that she had won. Unless he’s seen the newspaper (which doesn’t seem terribly on brand for him), or someone pointed it out or mentioned it to him, for all he knows, Dorothy did nothing more than realize she wanted to be in a relationship with Joyce.
I suspect Booster at least skims the newspaper, then leaves it — or at least the comics page — in the dorm room for Walky. Maybe, at least in this case, the entire paper’s there but left open to the comics page so Walky can check the front page if he hears about it and wants to confirm, but not be confronted with it otherwise.
I don’t think that’s wierd at all? That’s walky’s character. He has always been really bad at standing up for himself, and asserting himself in general. He avoids conflict and puts himself last, avoiding problems and minimising himself as much as he can to reach that goal.
It’s why I like him so much, he plays it off to everyone around him that he’s doing alright, while never really getting or doing anything he wants.
I do also personally think that the cheating aspect is like, extremely nothing, especially to him. The part that feels more tangibly mean is the way dorothy treats him so tangibly as the backup option. When the thing she actually wants isnt something she can get, walky’l do.
He bought 250 chicken nuggets, I think it’s safe to say he’s upset.
He’s just drowning his troubles like he always is
They could just update the whiteboard, instead of telling her intervention-style.
What does the whiteboard say though? Something about girls banged? I can’t make it out if it’s a message to Dorothy from Becky revealing she already knows.
Girls banged:
1. the best one.
It’s not a message to Dorothy.
well now Dorothy gets to argue with Becky about whether it means Joyce or Dina
“Girls banged: 2 (best girls)”
1 best girl each?
Exactly.
Less funny that way tho soooo
Becky really holds so much power over these two.
Anyone can and will be dumb.
s/o to today’s whiteboard, “Girls banged: 1. the best one”
I really like that detail on the whiteboard. I think its sweet – if strangely slightly objectifying.
Very on brand for Becky to announce it to the world on her door.
Dina probably wouldn’t take offense, though. It’s making a factual claim (if in colloquial terms) and appending a complimentary superlative.
She might, however, argue that Becky hasn’t done a large enough study to safely reach the latter conclusion.
“You would need more data to declare that objectively. You are, however, not permitted to gather any further data.”
I prefer “You are, of course, encouraged to gather further data while I watch and take notes.”
they’ve gotten off pretty scot free so far. Sarah’s the only one to chastise either of them so I’m expecting Becky to meltdown at Dorothy and Joyce to hurt Becky by taking Dorothy’s side over her by saying something mean.
Jennifer definitely got some digs in, veiled though they were.
While I’d like it if more people are upset with Joyce and Dorothy’s recent shitty behavior like Sarah, at this point I wouldn’t be surprised if Becky isn’t nearly as bothered by this as people are expecting.
Walky so depressed he’s eating 250 McNuggets is “scot free”?
when the extent of their interaction is Joyce going “I WIN YOU LOSE HAHAHAHA” and then they run off yeah. Joyce would probably steal half of Walky’s nuggets too and all the sauce. He doesn’t get to rip Joyce a new one or lash out at dorothy for mistreating him yet again.
Walky eating depression nuggets is sad for him, but does not currently impact Dorothy and Joyce. On the Dorothy/Joyce end, they each got through their break up with Joe saying he was fine with the kiss and getting put on hold, and Joyce rubbing it in Walky’s face while Walky just sighed he should have seen it coming. Walky and Joe are clearly hurt–Joe about Joyce leaving him in limbo, not the fact that she kissed Dorothy– and dealing with it as best they can. But both boyfriends who got cheated on basically assumed responsibility for the situation: Joe set it up, he wanted Joyce to have what she wants, and the fact that Joyce cheated only came up because Joe got exasperated about Joyce denying that she was a hussy who wanted multiple people, not because he was mad that she did the cheating. And Walky said he should have expected it and then got left in the echo of Joyce’s laughter before going off to eat nuggets in a “welp, that happened, here’s how I get over it” phase.
Jennifer got some backhanded scoldings in, but she didn’t really care. She’s not angry or annoyed or even disappointed, she’s just observing that their revelation was good, but messy. Heck, even Sal just shrugged and said it was basically as normal for them when she saw them kissing.
Sarah is the only one who has looked them in the face and said that they did something WRONG. Because they did. They knew it. Joyce didn’t know Joe was ok with her and Dorothy, and kissed Dorothy anyway, and has been trying to justify her way out of how wrong that was ever since. Dorothy knew it would hurt Walky. And the only one to really acknowledge that so far and give them any real pushback on their behavior is Sarah.
I’d say that’s getting off pretty scot free on Dorothy and Joyce’s end thus far. Joyce was basically told she can have her cake and eat it too by Joe–the conclusion of that is still uncertain, but we’re talking about so far– and Joycegot to viciously dump Walky for Dorothy and all they had to hear was he should have known.
we can still get mess and chaos for joyces family as well. but so far the have the Lady’s pull for sure (a luck phrase from the Malazan book of the fallen series)
Because both prior relationships in question had existed for a week, maybe less, in actual comic time. These aren’t months or years long investments, but yes due to the pacing it may feel that way to us.
And even the Sarah thing will almost certainly fizzle out now that Joyce has talked to Joe and Joe is (at least verbally) okay with it.
That’s normal for Walky. His metabolism is his super-power.
A consequence to Walky isn’t really a consequence to D&J, as of yet.
This is what confuses me about this line of thinking. If you decided to give a guy a try for a week but then realised your buried feelings for your best friend were mutual that you’ve been sitting on ever since you met her, and that led to a big kiss before either of you had broken up with your boyfriends, then
A. Why would it make sense for two week-long relationships to warrant vitriolic pushback on having kissed someone both boyfriends knew their respective girlfriend was wild about
2. Why would the wider friend group be expected to treat them like scum of the earth and accost them verbally? It already felt massively out of character for Sarah, and seems to have been spurred by her feeling ashamed for having judged Joe so strongly mixed with viewing Joyce as a smol bean incapable of true duplicitous behaviour.
It’s just so strange that so many people are out for blood here, and I can only assume that’s because of either prior personal baggage with cheating, or never having been in more than one or two relationships, or simply that the pace of the comic makes relationships feel much longer and deeper than they really should.
Well…I think some people might be out for blood because while the relationships were only ‘official’ for a week or less—they were built up emotionally for longer than that.
See, the argument is easily made that Joyce and Dorothy was a VERY long time coming and I would agree with that—however; we can’t just write off Walky and Dorothy as a few days fling’. They were previously together, and invested in each other. They were exes before they tried again, and a lot of emotional weight behind it.
Joe and Joyce had a distinct rapport, and Joe was realizing that rapport and how much he liked Joyce back when Jacob and him had that talk in the gym. ‘You’ll realize you missed out on something special—-ah fuck it’. I’m paraphrasing but you see what I mean? Yeah, in the zeitgeist of looking at it as official relationships? Barely long enough to throw out leftovers in the fridge.
In the expanse of interpersonal relationships and how we GOT there? Quite a bit longer in emotional investment.
This, really.
If Joe and Joyce had just met and had been dating for like a week and a half, that’d be less of an issue.
However, Joe and Joyce have been building up as trusted confidants of each other and helping each other grow since before the timeskip.
As for Dorothy and Walky, she’s been being a romantic asshole to him basically for the entire strip.
Some people are out for blood, sure. But some of us just want a reaction that isn’t “eh, you two were destined anyway.” Aside from Sarah.
Not only does the time difference muddy the argument that the relationships were only a couple of weeks old because the audience has been invested in the relationships for much, much, longer than that, but cheating is still cheating. And ending a relationship is still hard, especially when you’re blindsided. I’m not a person who thinks that means Dorothy or Joyce have to be treated like scum by everyone they know. Shit happens, they’re young and they had a lot of feels to sort through, I get that, and their friends can deal with it and grow and still be friends with them. But aside from the fact that Joyce and Joe were built up for months and months, only to have their Big Night together immediately followed by Joyce kissing Dorothy, these reactions feel anticlimactic and, for lack of a better term “uniform?”
For the past…month, more?… the comic has been teasing that Dorothy and Joyce will have to face the aftermath of a decision they both knew was a shitty thing to do. Evil, NO, but not fair to their partners based on the information they had at the time. And now, it’s basically: what drama? What conflict? What mess? No one cares. It’s treated as obvious and therefore hardly worth noticing. Even Booster, shit stirrer drama lord extraordinaire had essentially no reaction.
The only person to have a reaction that isn’t “duh, of course” is Sarah. Literally everyone else, even Jennifer, get over it because “they were gayer than actual gay sex” anyway. And that feels so flat. Especially watching it happen over and over again, even when Joyce is choosing to be consciously unpleasant about it. Cheating aside, Joyce didn’t have to taunt Walky AS he was being dumped. But whatever, it’s just a punch line, Dorothy and Joyce have other things to do and Walky should have known, so go eat nuggets.
I guess, from my perspective, it’s frustrating because it’s all about Dorothy and Joyce. And I can hear people rolling their eyes, because obviously Joyce and Dorothy, and Joyce/Dorothy, are at the center of this arc. I get that. But it feels like everyone else–except Sarah– has spent the last strips not reacting as varied people who might have differing perspectives on the kiss due to being one of the girls’ partners, or having experience with cheating before, or even just surprised because knowing and having it ground into your face mid-break up are different things, but instead brushing all of that aside to reaffirm Dorothy/Joyce as Ultimate Endgame with “well, it was obvious”. Joyce and Dorothy stress, only to be met time and again with a shrug. Personally I’d kinda like to see something that shows that Dorothy and Joyce’s actions impact other people more than “oh dear, I guess that relationship is over. Maybe. If Joyce gets back to Joe. Or tells Dorothy about Joe’s opinion.” Or “Sigh, I guess I have to be nice to Walky now. Wow, Joyce sure bags a lot of hot people.”
Is Willis building up to a Big Reaction from Becky? Very probably! But right now it feels a bit like treading water. Stuff is happening, but ever since the Big Dramatic Kiss Moment, it’s felt very…one note, despite multiple characters being involved.
And another element, as least for me, is that other potentially very dramatic and interesting story beats keep getting pushed back to focus on Dorothy and Joyce as a couple, it was so obvious.
I was so excited when I thought Joyce left Joe because she thought Jocelyn had been outed to their parents in the newpaper. It’s a thread of the previous storyline that felt very strong. But now it seems as if Joyce was only worried about the newspaper because of the kiss, which has now been dealt with in a couple strips concluding it’s too late now.
Dorothy was very fired up about what happened to Amazigirl. And she was about to tell Joyce, she was visibly worried about it. But then Joyce made a shower joke, and we never saw Dorothy tell Joyce or Joyce’s reaction. It went straight to them dumping the boys. So now that plot thread, with a lot of potentially interesting emotional repercussions, is on hold, and I’m not even sure what Joyce knows about it.
This is not to say Willis is a bad writer and shouldn’t be writing this, I know that’s been a problem. I’m sure there are big payoffs planned. I’m just trying to explain why it’s difficult for some people now, completely separate from “Joyce and Dorothy are terrible people who deserve terrible things and no happiness why isn’t everyone chasing them with pitchforks?”
That’s been my issue lately too. So many things seeming like they’ll lead somewhere, then it’s back to Joyce and Dorothy being DoJo again, when practically the only thing new about that is the kissing; they’ve arguably had the longest relationship depicted in the comic, for all that they’ve only realised it recently.
Of course, that’s really not all that’s happening, but it sometimes feels like it.
It’s because the walls of morality have been breached, and if punishment does not ensue, they will collapse and chaos will devour the universe. /s
Seriously, though, you’re absolutely right.
Dorothy as “perfect cinnamon roll” doesn’t really scan. That designation always screams “cutesy” and “endearing” and “comforting” to me, which doesn’t fit Dorothy’s brand.
Dorothy is (or at least WAS for most of the comic’s run before her recent Screw The Rules album perspective shift) very go-getter, very hardworking and know-it-all. She had many qualities Joyce could admire but “perfect cinnamon roll” doesn’t really capture any of them.
I’d say Dorothy is more like a pristine Millefuille (sp?). Something fancy and impressive that clearly took a lot of work.
I don’t find her comforting, but I think Joyce does. It also might have fit more whenever it first came up
I don’t really think “perfect cinnamon roll” really has that specific qualification. It’s more of a term for anything one thinks it’s the best thing ever and can do no wrong. But even if it was that specific Dorothy can ve pretty damn cute if the situation allow it so i think she fits either way, at least from Hoyce perspective ( i don’t know what i wrote so much about this)
See, I’ve only ever seen the term applied to people/characters/animals that are beloved in a specific way: nonthreatening, all-loving, broadly kind and good-natured to all they meet. A friendly golden retriever is a perfect cinnamon roll.
Maybe my definition is too narrow but that’s pretty much the only version I’ve seen over the years. And I think it would apply more easily to Joyce herself than to Dorothy!
Not if you ask Joyce.
And yeah i think that is too narrow a definition, i had seen it being applied to all kind of characters that doesn’t fit that
same, i’ve seen it used in cutesy dialog between paramours, regardless of anyones cutenes/wholesomeness. (i also think alan davies ws introduced using the phrase on QI onces)
Well, here’s Dorothy as a puppy:
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/03-when-god-closes-the-door/arf/
Either a joke about how Joyce doesn’t know the correct connotations or to hint that she sees Dorothy’s behavior though rose tinted glasses would ne my guesses.
If by “hint” you mean literally every time Joyce has talked about Dorothy.
I always saw cinnamon role used on characters with a humorous/goofy side so would have thought Joyce or maybe Walky would have been better candidates.
This is literally how Joyce has almost always seen Dorothy.
Yep. And established as such a decade ago
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-6/01-to-those-whod-ground-me/meetin/
I have been tolerantly amused by the bawdy antics of these young rapscallions thus far, but if they hurt my precious babies Becky and Dina I am going to fucking lose it.
They haven’t even been particularly bawdy. If the world is going to revolve around them for the next few stories, they could at least have the decency to actually get bawdy with it. Joyce hasn’t grabbed Dorothy’s ass even once!
I mean to be fair joyce was ready to fuck in the shower this morning before dorothy told her to get their affairs in order first.
She didn’t specify fuck. Merely (again presumably) naked together could have been the intention.
I know it’s off-topic, but I followed the link in your name and have to ask…
What’s the reason for that apparent recent trend of putting someone’s action in one paragraph and their words in the next, possibly followed by an entirely different person’s action?
For example:
“Well?” asked the princess, as her attendants swarmed around and began to help disrobe her. “What do you think?” Across the room, perched elegantly on a settee, the Duchess Melisandre raised an eyebrow.
“I would not presume to judge, Your Imperial Highness.” Daria stuck out her tongue, and blew a raspberry.
To me, this makes it look like Daria’s the one claiming not to presume to judge, because she’s the only one mentioned in the latter paragraph, but it seems to actually be Melisandre… and, with this being the first interaction after the ceremony, I thought at first that they’d done the old trick of having the princess and someone else exchange roles in case of regicidal attempts.
It belatedly occurred to me that people might misinterpret that disrobing part of the quoted text, so to clarify: the princess was just being liberated from her overly elaborate formalwear, and nothing salacious was occurring.
Just wanted to give advance warning so people wouldn’t be disappointed.
Book 16 title – “I expect clearer answers from ‘Roll, Perfect Cinnamon!'”
i like “the baudy antics of these young rapscallions” better for the next book titie
Personally, my solution would be to just replace “brother” with “sibling” in all of the contact names. It both a) keeps the original numbering scheme intact, and b) future-proofs it against any future revelations.
Joyce, we should have told you, you were adopted.
eh. adopted siblings are still siblings
Of course they are! But they’re not brothers.
(Joking.)
I dunno about you people but my phone contacts are people’s names. With clarifications in parenthesis if there is repeated names.
…well now that all the 15 years annviersary bannersa re loaded it’s not lagging to access anymore. huh.
Is that why this site was lagging so much the past few days? I was wondering what happened.
no idea, i’m just throwing a theory around lol
Joyce, stop asking cis people about trans etiquette.
To be fair she probably shouldn’t bug the trans people she knows about it too much either.
That doesn’t leave a lot of wiggle room for questions.
She could always just call her sister and ask her directly. I think any person trans are not wouldn’t be bothered by that question.
This ^. If you don’t know, ask the person you are referring to.
She pretty clearly has anxiety about that stuff tho cuz of how much dumb shit she’s told/asked affected people directly.
And her peers make fun of her for it all the time so it makes sense she’d eventually just stop doing it, even though she should probably still just call her sister and ask directly
“Hey, Jocelyn – is it transphobic if I call you dumb?”
Yeah, that conversation can only go well…
What you said, without sarcasm. I don’t see that going south. Jocelyne seems too chill to get annoyed about it.
if anything I think she’d like yet another easy lay-up to dunk on her little sister (affectionately)
There are forums for asking these kinds of questions but I can state from experience that it gets exhausting for trans people to constantly be fielding these sorts of questions all the time, and it helps immensely for people who care about us to do their own research ahead of time.
Heh, thanks alt text.
…please don’t get caught kissing in there by Becky. That’d be a terrible first impression
It would also be fucking hilarious.
They are alone in a dark room, Becky might catch them half-naked, fingers-deep in each others v’s.
“Did you learn nothing from my story about locking the door???”
The eternal failure of DoA.
I mean…it’s dorothy’s room too.
Becky living so deeply and rent free in the Dorothy x Joyce relationship space that we’re now commenting they can’t make out in the privacy of their room. This will never not bother me.
I’d argue the only issue is they should tell Becky first just to make the conversation start off on the right foot.
Please do it’d be so fucking funny
Oh yeah in case ya missed it yesterday,
in light of the comic’s 15th anniversary coming soon,
I gathered up all the site’s character banners (21 in total) and turned them into a little collage (^-^)
https://bsky.app/profile/ngpz.bsky.social/post/3ly4wibbw2k2z
Thank you for this!
Thank you, this is awesome. It shall never live forever on my hard drive.
now it has to include BlowJob Cat!!! AAAAAAAAAAAA
Damn You Willis!!!! How many more of these are you gonna add? XD
https://bsky.app/profile/ngpz.bsky.social/post/3ly6rbviqp22z
If dumbness is based on male gender then it may not be transphobic, but mildly misandrist.
I don’t think Joyce is impying dumbness is related to being male, but is basically overthinking whether the usual ‘joking sibling insults’ she’s used to doing would be considered insulting.
It took 15 years but I finally get a mention. And while they’re discussing trans etiquette no less.
awe, splendidly sweet <3
…. in retrospect, Joyce dubbing Dorothy as “roll, perfect cinnamon” might have been a sign of gayness.
Along with the several dozens other signs flashing like the las vegas strip.
https://www.tumblr.com/ardiebeaphotography/793852951531765760/the-shower-strips?source=share
I just thought this was a pretty cool analysis and that people might like to see it.
saw a post yesterday about the idea of joe giving off egg vibes and i do kinda get it.
They linked a comment where he says he doesn’t want to be a “gross man” which is a great start, but aside from that I just kinda think his overall arc has a lot of potential for it. He doesn’t want to be Like His Dad and so throws himself into a different, but still shallow facade of masculinity to try to fit in, but ultimatley can’t stick with it.
I think in general, a storyline about *someone* in the dorm activley figuring out they are trans would go a long way, and just kinda be a fun direction. Once this polycule plot resolves one way or another, it could be a pretty interesting direction to send Joe.
Of course, walky is the other one people talk about, and I think he would work too. His general dissociation from life and the people around him and all of his problems is a good start. He doesn’t seem to care much about his own sense of masculinity, and is clearly listless in a lot of ways. And with him being kinda written away from the joyce/dorothy dynamic, it could also work to help him have more to do.
My thing is, yes, you could analyze Joe and Walky from a trans lens and come away with some relatively substantial findings, but I don’t think from a character standpoint I don’t think either of them would be interesting to me having a trans arc, Joe least of all. I think his arc definitely works best with him as a cis man.
I push this agenda a lot but I would genuinely love to see Danny realize that she’s trans, both because she’s been kind of stagnant for a while, because I see a lot of myself as an egg in her, and because her whole arc has been centered on self-discovery and self-actualization in a way that Walky and Joe haven’t necessarily (or at least not to the same degree or in the same way – Walky has been struggling with encountering real adult challenges like poor grades and relationship trouble for the first time in his life, while Joe’s arc has been all about overcoming his insecurities and the toxic and harmful ways he manifested to cope with them, and becoming a better man in the process).
I’m also a little ambivalent to trans Walky bc he’d just end up identical to Sal, even more than he already does, and I just find that a bit boring.
Damn. I guess Danny really is a
Good egg
There aren’t that many men in this comic in general, and I think if we were gonna see a someone realizes they’re trans storyline I’d prefer it be one of the folks who are currently presenting as girls. Especially since two of our three trans characters we currently have are trans women. I do not have a good sense of who that would be aside from the fact that Malaya is actively having that arc in front of us.
Malaya being nonbiney is the rep we need, for the record.
I think if any of the hall people were trans guys, I’d be least surprised by Cool Rachel or Agatha. I cannot explain why them.
We have that ONE trans guy in Forrest hall, Zeek? It’s not enough, he’s not a real character (yet)… but he does exist.
Malaya’s barely a character in this comic, they had more screen time in Shortpacked and they never transitioned in that.
No thanks I want trans girls
Carla and Jocelyne, each to a certain extent, represent trans women who are already open and living as their authentic selves after having already gone through the process of realization and understanding that they are women. I want to see that process play out for one of the main cast, and because I am a trans woman, I would prefer it be someone assigned male at birth.
NGL as a trans guy theres’s a little part of me that would actually like if we got a trans-masculine Dina arc (I’ve been thinking this ever since she ‘masc-ed herself up’ as an experiment)
But due to various knock-on effects that would cause I am so sure that’ll never happen.
A guy can dream, though.
Dina is the only character in the cast I can see a transmasculine reading for but I can’t bear the thought of breaking her and Becky up.
Maybe a transmasculine nonbinary Butch lesbian?
Yeah that was one of the knock-on effects I was alluding to, aha.
I dunno, I kind of think that watching characters navigate that kind of thing might be interesting. As someone with a little bit of experience in this, I find the “can you get grandfathered in because the emotional attachment is more important once things are in motion or is orientation inflexible” thing really interesting.
oh it could be very interesting. It could also produce discourse that makes me want to combust.
Firstly, this is specfically a comic About the girls wing of the dorm primarily, which is why the girls are the main actual focus. I have no particular issue with adding transmasc people to the roster, but I think the actual specific existing trans women have some shortcomings.
Notably both of them we meet way after they figured it all out, so that aspect of the narrative is lost, and more notably, neither are major characters. Unless jocyelyn gets a reason to stick around longer than normal, she is going to be an infrequent precsence, and Carla is largely used for comic relief and small storylines, rarely being the main focus of the narrative for long
personally I see danny as the singular person in the cast who has like… acutally found a sense of self that he is confident in? He’s like actually happy, and doesn’t really read to me as having any particular trans vibes. He’s like, a dweeb and kinda effeminite but I never really felt any of that as compelling reasoning.
This is a pretty good example though of why trying to argue Against a trans read is a little pointless in media. Being trans means different things to different people and so as a result, different things are going to read AS trans.
I think all of these characters work with arcs where they are men. obviously, because the story is currently presenting them as such. I just think it’s interesting to consider how an arc about them becoming trans would play out, and what narrative threads would be pulled on. (Like the comic of joe saying he hates being a (gross) man.
My ass here trying to read the sign on the door. Looks like:
Girls Banged
1. (I am unsure) isn’t(?) one
I think it says “and she isn’t one” perhaps referring to Dina’s unconcerned uncertainty related to gender.
Suet said: “Girls banged: 1. the best one
Becky has only banged Dina, who is therefore the best one.
The existence of 1. implies there *might* be others?!?
Oh thanks! I hadn’t noticed Suet’s comment about it. Becky poly lesbian arc…?
doesn’t have to be. I can fully buy Dina and Becky being emotionally monogamous but who knows maybe they’ll try swinging.
Becky is a semi-open horndog for a multitude of characters and Dina doesn’t seem like the type of character who’d care for sexual exclusivity or at the very least would be willing to try just to see how it would affect their relationship similar to their other experiments
the actual answer is that dumb is an ableist term so
As somebody who is Gender Fluid:
Depends on the person
A perfect cinnamon roll is sweet, caring, and oblivious or at least naive. No room for cynicism. A do-gooder who thinks the bad guys just need a hug.
Again i think that is. A pretty narrow view of it.
I can see how calling someone dumb might be ableist, but I don’t understand how it would be transphobic.
I guess it could hypothetically imply you don’t fully support their decision to transition but we know Joyce is simply using it for sibling ribbing so it should be fine.
Basically she saying is now that she knows her sibling is Trans, does that mean calling a Trans person dumb is transphobic, or is treating her sibling different by not teasing them transphobic.
Joyce is still working though “am I allowed to criticize or tease trans people for things?” The wild part is dotty should know this shit by now
Should she? I don’t think she’s much less ignorant about queer matters than Joyce is. She’s self aware enough to say “I’m not really sure.” and look stuff up, bug I don’t know if she’s the type to research us unprompted.
Blanket thank you to the folks who answered. 🙂
Story from a long time ago: Because of Orphan Black I changed my siblings in my phone to Sestra and Sestra-Brother. When the latter came out as genderqueer, I never had to change their contact name!
For those who haven’t seen it, one character is Ukranian, hence the different word for “sister”. There’s also a brother to one of the main characters who is in on all the secrets. So the main character tells the Ukranian character that he’s one of them, he’s to be counted as a sister. So the Ukranian character declared him a Brother-Sestra. (I had it flipped so my siblings could be next to each other in my phone)
Aw, that’s cute!
I mean treat them the same except for their pronouns.
I still call my sister stoopid whenever I see her and I did before she transitioned
I wonder if this’ll lead into their first marital spat, Joyce often puts Dot on a pedistal but being perceived as flawless is something Dot actively dislikes given how many people use it as an insult towards her.
I could even see it lead into something sort of mirroring The Graduate’s ending, where the high emotions and butterflies finally wind down and the reality really crashes in that they both have people in their mind that don’t truly reflect the other. And all the potential colleteral they created getting where they are right now instead of just. Having an honest talk from the very beginning to get their honest feelings sorted.
(not to imply this relationship is destined to crash and burn, just that i think this could lead to an argument and added anxiety before even growth for them both to become less co-dependant of one another)
It would be nice if that is something the story addresses. Joyce has spent so much time seeing Dorothy as this sacred person who she has to fight others for access to but at the same time did briefly get frustrated with Dorothy being overbearing.
I think it will be hilarious if, after all of this buildup, Dorothy and Joyce end up breaking up, say, 2 days from now.
(of course, that’ll take another year in real-world time, but anyway…)
Who wants to bet Becky will walk in on these two making out sloppy style in Dorothy’s bed? XD
A sibling will always be dumb, being trans is completely separate from that XD
“THE VERSION OF YOU THAT I HAVE IN MY MIND ALWAYS HAS ALL THE ANSWERS!”
Someone please correct me if I’m wrong, but wouldn’t it be better/safer to choose a gender neutral nickname just in case of parents seeing it on the screen or borrowing the phone? Something like Jabroni.
Well Joyce is kind of new to the whole Deception thing, as seen in this arc, so I doubt it crossed her mind.
Technically yes, but that may not be much of a concern at the moment- doesn’t seem likely for her parents to wind up with her phone.
joyce, for the love of fuck, text becky on her phone with your phone that you are holding
But dropping that kind of bomb via text is considered a dick move, generally.
sure but starting with “hey can we meet up as soon as you’re free” might be a move
Sure, but notice their reaction when Becky isn’t here is “phew”. They’re not at all eager to put off this conversation.
As a trans woman, it’s fine to label her as “Dumb Sister #1.” She would probably actually appreciate it.
Oh Sweet Cinnamon Roll
Perfect with your sticky scroll
Let my proboscis lap your rim
Then we as lovers swim
In the heady gentian ponds
As we hymn a cinnamon song
At least buy me dinner first.
Siblings and close friends are morally obligated to be labelled as dumb. This does not have to apply to in-person, but it can.
All siblings are dumb, irregardless of gender.
All Siblings are Dumb, take it from me, besides dumb sister is a fun thing to have, not that I have one, no I am one to my eldest brother (Can’t vouch for my middle brother given he is non-verbal and refuses to use sign language, but would like to think he sees me as his sister)
Do it, Joyce, being trans doesn’t diminish anyone’s capacity for being dumb.
I hope Becky doesn’t care too much and Joyce and Dotty come to understand they dont have to keep trying to be sneaky and can face their moraly reprehensible actions seriously.
Love this comic, I was excited to see how the otp would manifest, and was thoroughly entertained by the shenanigans as usual, but it’s weird no longer loving Joyce and Dorothy and I’m very much looking forward to not focusing on them as much tbh.
You gonna be severally disappointed considering they two of the most major characters. (Also morally repressible? Really?)
Yes really
Lol
I was so sad about the perspective on Patreon yesterday y’all ngl. We finally had a break from the dry toast into interesting stuff like Walky coping poorly (and hopefully crashing out once we get a few more strips of him)
a breath of fresh air in these trying times, gone all too soon
Like watching the tide wash over you before the ocean draws it all away again
Kinda want another “clever girl” moment where Becky is hiding and waiting to pounce on this situation.
Really, didn’t we get enough with the first time undermining the weight of the scene?
When the site was slow to load recently (but not actually down), I went off and did something else. when I came back to it, it had (goodness knows what I did) jumped to some random strip. It featured Booster answering the door to Dorothy looking for Walky, and Booster being snarkily analytical. Needless to say, it could easily have been the next strip. I was confused for a while by the one that came after!
Dorothy, I would think “do I treat my trans sibling basically the same as before she told me she’s trans, just with different pronouns” would be a fairly easy question. Yes, you do generally want to do that.
(with, y’know, some awareness of what being trans can entail and all. but if your dumb sibling is your dumb sibling you don’t gotta stop calling them dumb if they turn out to be a different flavor of sibling.)
rereading from the start and I thought it was hilarious (when this page first came out) that I remembered this page when I was rereading because I saw Dotty named that in Joyce’s phone. ~<3