98.6 °F is what you get when you convert 37 °C to °F. But 37 °C is rounded. Grossly rounded. Normal is more like 36.6 °C… and that’s inside. In the armpit, I have 35.9 °C. When I have 37 °C in the armpit, I’m ill and stay at home.
There’s a decent amount of individual variation, and it’d be nice if more people recognized that. (Still bitter about how as a kid, my normal temp tended to be on the lower end, but a temperature of 99.3°F didn’t count as a fever for my elementary school, so I couldn’t go home.)(“Fever” was considered to start at 100°F for school purposes, 100.3°F in general.)
Being Sal is so easy!
Every morning I wake up, skip the workout, cuz I’m naturally buff and I don’t wanna get too big, ya know,
Do almost nothing with my amazing hair!
Go to class, I don’t really have to try, but I do anyway,
Fight a few bad guys, feed a few street dogs…
this line upnis also funny when you think about it:
1. Jacob: The crush that Raidah was all about and wanted Joyce to hook up with.
2. Lucy: the girl who JUST broke up with Walky and hooked up wtih Jacob.
and 3. Billiefer: the mess of insecurities that broke up with her toxic yuri romance, lost her shady bf Asher to emo Ethan, and helped send Joyce Dorothy’s tit pics.
accidentally sent them, technically. Seemed less like she cared who they were being sent to, but more than Dorothy was doing a shit job at takin the photos.
she uh, was still trying to help Dorothy with her tit pics game tho lol
I also dislike Lucy and will not elaborate further because exhaustion is making me see double and I don’t think I have the energy to do that tonight lol
“Jacob was okay.” We’ve been judging Joyce and Dorothy for weeks if not months for cheating. You know Jacob did that too right? He’s not okay. Unless the bar is at it’s okay to cheat on people we don’t like.
Jacob kind of did it too, but Jacob only did that. He kissed Joyce once, then went and immediately broke up with Raidah and didn’t switch to declaring he’d always retroactively been in love with Joyce. He (and even more so Joyce then) was definitely in the wrong, but he wasn’t rewarded for it.
There was a lot of discussion of it at the time, but since it didn’t stay the focus of the comic for months on end after the kiss (and Jacob actually disappeared for years) we stopped harping on it.
They already talked about it; Jacob pretty much warned Joe that he was down bad to the max, and that messing around with Joyce was going to get him emotionally burned. Joe’s response was more or less “naw dawg, I’m happy to deal with her inevitable mistakes, because she perf.”
Jacob did exactly what Joyce and Dorothy should have done after cheating on their partner, and didn’t then start dating Joyce because he blamed both of them for it. Meanwhile Joyce seems unwilling to consider that she did anything wrong and Dorothy couldn’t even manage to say “I cheated on you” to Walky.
I like Lucy if only for the fact that when she said Joyce is her bisexual doppelgänger and watching how they both speedrun relationships has me feeling a strange sense of vindication.
Okay so I don’t know if this is preaching to the choir, I apologize if you already know this or really don’t want advice! Given the subject, though:
They always, alwaysreject the first time. You could be bedridden dying of cancer. That doesn’t make it easier, though, or any less majestically fucked up.
Unless your cousin is a lawyer (oh boy do I hope they are) you should be aware that most people who get in have one- there’s a whole genre of lawyer who work on commission, getting you through in exchange for a percentage of the backpay the government inevitably owes you when they do let you through, because they have to pay you through back when you first filed the paperwork. If you can jump through that hoop and sacrifice that money (it’s usually like a third), that will work.
Everything nse said is spot-on. First application is almost always rejected. Initial appeals are usually rejected, as well, though occasionally you’ll get lucky. It’s the hearing stage, which occurs after that initial appeal, that you tend to see the most successes (and if the lawyer is taking your case, that means they think you have a good chance, since they don’t get paid for their work unless they succeed).
So, yes, as big a hit as that 1/3rd is, it’s absolutely worth it to get over the finish line.
(Source for the above: My wife is now on disability, and this is exactly how it went down.)
Geez, every time i see a comment like this i’m amazed all you Americans haven’t just eaten all the insurance providers. How do you live like this? When you have default procedures for expecting rejection and having to work around it just to get a smidge of decent healthcare.
This isn’t about insurance, it’s government disability. It’s notoriously difficult to get in America and basically everyone gets rejected the first time. In America it doesn’t matter if your provider is public or private, neither wants to pay.
It took me two years and half a dozen diagnoses and two rejections. Every day since being approved I haven’t regretted the fight to get on disability and I wish you all the luck and speed with the process.
The question is less “Will she get over this?” and more “How much of her friend circle will she torch through sheer force of being really fucking annoying about this?”
It helps that, through every stage of her life, her entire peer group has already been thoroughly primed to expect that she’s going to be annoying. Like, if someone acts the way you consistently expect them to, you end up getting numb to it. I think that’s a fact about Joyce’s peer group, that sometimes doesn’t click to everyone in the comments. They know she’s very passionate, and very well-meaning, but also very rigid, and completely lacking in worldliness.
Like, if you’re gonna befriend somebody who’s going through cult deprogramming, and processing more than an entire life’s worth of trauma, you just…have different expectations of that person, from the jump. It’s like adopting a beaten dog, then being surprised that it’s skittish and anxious; if that’s something you don’t think you’re willing to handle, you don’t adopt the dog in the first place.
I remember when I could comfortably call Joyce Brown one of my favorite DoA characters, specifically because of the layers, complexity, and messiness of her compassion towards others and how it metabolized into a well-meaning but often misguided passion for doing right by others, and how that innate quality of hers dovetailed with the fact that her upbringing gave her a very skewed initial impression of what “doing right by others” even looked like. Her best traits and her worst traits were inextricable, because they were fundamentally the same traits. She was fascinating and well-written and flawed in a very human and grounded way, even when she was at her most cartoonish.
I miss that Joyce. I hope that Joyce comes back someday.
For my part, I like Joyce beat when she is excited about something. She was adorable when she was excited about Jesus, and when she was excited about Jacob, and she’s adorable now that she’s excited about having had sex.
I explicitly talked about how interesting I found Joyce’s previous manifestation of her character flaws, so I really don’t know how you got “I only want to read Joyce when she’s perfect and flawless” out of that.
My problem is that this is the boring Joyce. All she has done for the past four months is go “I AM HORNY FOR DOROTHY” on repeat, and I would like a little more variety in either her character beats or in whicj character the A-Plot is focusing on, because right now Joyce’s narrative holding pattern is a pacing slog.
I almost posted this a little further down, as a continuation of another thought, but: I wouldn’t class myself as a hater, mostly because that would require me to feel something for this pairing stronger than boredom or apathy. I am, to use the memetic phrasing, “not mad, just disappointed.” I’ve honestly been more engaged and impressed by Throwatron’s commentary(s) than the comic itself of late.
I rarely bother to post about that because what does it matter? It won’t change anything; Willis will continue doing what pleases Willis, and I think that how most of us readers/commenters feel about… all of this is pretty well set by this point, so I won’t be changing any minds or opinions.
I just hope that Joyce’s arrogant smile gradually fades. Yes, many mocked the lack of consequences, but they will appear sooner or later.
Yes, it’s also necessary that Dorothy face the consequences, but the fact that she still expresses guilt at least keeps that last glimmer of hope alive.
I’m not a great fan of hate either… including the “if you don’t think like I do, shut up or get out” variety.
The hater containment thread is useful, anyway, allowing people to express their grievances without interfering with more positive threads, while people who don’t like it can just scroll past (and people like me can read anyway but be forewarned of negativity).
Apparently, the only hitch in this plan, is that the people the thread isn’t for, don’t seem physically or mentally capable of scrolling past it without feeling judged. I don’t know what the fix for that is.
Much, much easier said than done, depending on how these threads are implemented in the first place. There’s a reason everyone just uses Disqus lately.
it’s weird, isn’t it? I’m entirely capable of scrolling past posts that are expressing appreciation for this development and the lack of any since, but apparently that doesn’t work for those who don’t want to see any criticism of it.
Are you perhaps confused by the fact that “hater” is being used here as a humorous exaggeration by people who are dissatisfied by aspects of some of these characters or storylines? Like, do you think the majority of us somehow actually “hate” Willis and/or the comic, as opposed to (to use myself as an example) harboring some mild degree of dislike for how Joyce/Dorothy are acting and how the story’s treating that?
I’ve talked openly about how I’ve been reading Willis’ work since I was in middle school and how much of an influence they’ve been on my own creative pursuits!
I mean, I’ve said myself I wouldn’t dream of criticizing unless I were the kind of fan who owned all the books.
Not to mention the whole “I’m a hater, then” was itself a reaction to the plethora of “Doyce did nothing wrong ever and we should just have them kissing every strip for the rest of time” which is itself (I hope) generally an attempt at humorous hyperbole.
(of course, everything about this discussion is continually exacerbated by the existence of actual homophobic hatred in the comment spaces, the existence of people who seem to literally think any criticism of Doyce is tantamount to homophobia, etc etc, etc. Including the fact that I have to put in the disclaimer that OBVIOUSLY the first one is worse than the second.)
Hey, not a criticism, but just an observation based on reading more than commenting over the past 6~months, ever since the kiss that might be helpful or illuminating.
So I’ve just noticed a couple of recurring strands coming up over and over again here in the comments and on tumblr. Those strands being:
1) This has been an accurate or affirming exploration of being fundamentalist and not knowing you’re queer and having to explore that (and less so but sometimes included, this has been an accurate response to messy college relationships or cheating)
2) This has not been an accurate exploration of being queer or at least my experience of those things (I remember Dot saying it reminded them Doyce reminding them of every baby gay couple who didn’t last a year in college)
This is on a similar vector but not quite the same
3) This is an accurate exploration of having to reevaluate or explore your values after being raised in a strict or controlling environment and this is normal/natural to go through periods of fucking it up and is therefore not a big deal
4) This is not an accurate exploration and even accounting for a strict or controlling environment, Joyce should have know better and clearly are acting unethical/immoral.
Like even setting aside the distinction between “reasonable haters” vs “actual bigots”[air quotes for a reason (not saying there weren’t people being bigoted or obtuse}], I saw people even in the early days after the kiss strip before “sides” had really formed who classified themselves as reasonable haters saying Joyce was acting like a literal sociopath and was clearly incapable of moral reasoning without religion and implying some amount of time later in later comments section, that if you didn’t understand said persons point of view you were either a literal child or an idiot or incapable or moral reasoning or all three. Or that Doyce were cheating skanks (exact wording). So I saw that happening before the “I’m a hater then”.
So mostly from my observation, it’s been mostly people speaking from their lived experience, feeling like they’re not being heard or misunderstood, maliciously or otherwise and assuming the worst about the other party, with bigots or people just happy to have a gay couple throw in on both sides.
”Do not use they” is hard on a Finn. My native language doesn’t do gendered pronouns, and I love using they to be inclusive, and to significy that people are people to me, not slotted into buckets based on gender. I’ll do my best Dot, but if I offend accidentally, the explanation is this.
@Yotomoe: I recognize that, which is why I am not mad, I’m just gently correcting. While they/them is good practice for if you don’t know someone’s pronouns, they can also be used harmfully to degender trans women and disrespect their gender identity. This has happened to me on several occasions. This isn’t to imply that’s what samurai was doing here, just to explain why I take such a hardline stance on only using she/her for myself.
– Wild to be so cruel to a total fucking stranger. Genuinely mindblowing. Just scroll past if you don’t want to see it lmao.
– It’s not a requirement here that opinions be “cute” or “funny” in order to be said. Otherwise you couldn’t have commented this particular trashbag opinion.
– “Just keep quiet or leave” … or you’ll what? This reads like bullying, darling, but you forgot to add the threat of a knucklesandwich to really keep the People Who Disagree With You down.
Honestly, I think you thought other people had complained about Dot so you’d get a lot of support for trying to dunk on her. I hope your ego can take the backlash you got instead for being a complete pineapple about things.
I must confess to some amusement at the ongoing pattern of someone getting really rude and complaining about me and everyone else just looking at them like they’ve ruined the vibe at the function
Speaking as a person who is not personally a hater, and who does not particularly think the hater threads are needed. If given the choice between Dot, or people trying to silence her from making the hater threads via being an ass, my vote is for keeping Dot, thanks.
The issue is I actually like nearly all of the main characters most of the time. I’m just finding Joyce really obnoxious right now because she seems to still have zero regret about how she treated Joe.
She acted badly… that is fine, humans make mistakes. But an important part of mistakes is learning from them and she doesn’t seem to have learned anything.
In the case of Jacob it seemed like she got the message… but it kind of seems like she only recognized that she messed up because she didn’t get what she wanted. In this arc she got exactly what she wanted, and she isn’t learning anything.
No one ever explains exactly how fresh air, by which they inevitably mean unfiltered outdoor air with an unregulated temperature, is supposed to be good for you. I don’t freeze to death in indoor air as a rule and it has far less common allergens. The humidity is also much better regulated.
My initial read was “neutral on Joyce, somewhat uncomfortable around Dorothy for a while” but this might push Sal into the “Ok, you’re actually making this too weird to be seen with you” zone
Oh wait, someone else pointed out below that Sal witnessed Dorothy and Joyce kissing. Though that doesn’t guarantee that Sal knew any details about anyone’s relationship status.
The interesting thing to me here is how Jacob’s going to react to hearing about Joyce’s recent dating events — which is now more likely given what she led with.
Kinda hoping for a “wait, you didn’t learn your lesson about the whole cheating/cheating-adjacent crap with ME?” response.
It would be funnier if the conversation goes elsewhere, she doesn’t explain and later Jacob winds up talking to Joe about it, still under the impression Joyce was talking about Joe.
Does she even know Dorothy broke up with him for Joyce? They haven’t talked yet and live fairly separate social lives most of the time. This could be how she finds out.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Sal finds that out at bowling. Otherwise, it’s gonna get back to Danny, at some point, and he’ll rightfully gripe to Sal about it, if he doesn’t just go straight to dressing down Dorothy about it.
Yeah Sal shrugging off catching them kissing was one of my bigger disappointments with this storyline. If it’d been just for the sake of the punchline-of-the-day and there’d been a follow up strip where she acted right, fine NBD, it’s a punchilne-of-the-day comic strip. But it’s been weeks and weeks, so at this point…well, maybe/hopefully tomorrow, I guess.
TBH, I don’t really think Sal gives much of a care about their relationships. The fact she’s in this strip almost surprised me because I forgot, on occasion, she does interact with the whole group.
If the line for Sal is loyalty to Walky then she should have Lucy and Jacob too. Lucy dumped Walky after coming to Sal and bragging about them dating. What do Walky’s relationships even look like from Sal’s perspective? A girl you don’t really know says she’s dating your brother, okay? They walk together to class for a couple a weeks and then Amber shows up to your family dinner?! And then there’s a party where your brother you were told is dating Lucy shows up with Dorothy, not really your business either way, but Lucy ends the night making out with Jacob and your brother you thought Lucy was dating is visibly upset by it. Next morning Lucy is Walking to class with Jacob and not your brother. What is Sal supposed to do with all this besides what she’s already been doing which is minding her own business? Like if the standard set here is Sal should be on Walky’s side and not associate with anyone who treated him like shit this walk should just be her and Jennifer and Billie barely even qualifies.
Sal knew about the break up with Lucy the day it happened.
Because that’s the same day Walky called his mom a racist.
He then told Sal about doing so and why he did so.
That prompted Sal to Invite Walky to crash Jennifer’s karaoke party, to get his mind off things.
As for Sal not knowing Lucy, Lucy had been hanging with Walky for months by the time they started dating, and Sal was one of the people who asked Lucy if Walky finally knew they were dating (because it was clear Lucy liked him and desired him as such).
They were also walking to class together prior to Lucy and Walky dating.
Long story long, Sal did know Lucy and Sal was aware of Lucy and Walky “blowing up”, though she might have been as unsure of the extent of it as some of the readers (myself included) were.
I forgot Walky told her about the breakup. But has he told her about the split with Dorothy? Does she even know they were back together? His recent relationship history has been so volatile I think it’s unreasonable to expect for her to recognize Walky is depressed from a breakup.
She hasn’t spoken to Walky so isn’t aware that he got cheated on then found out by getting laughed at, I don’t think even Walky realizes Dorothy cheated on him yet so there might be an assumption that they broke up before Dorothy got with Joyce.
didn’t they only get back together for like, two days or something? if anything I imagine Sal would’ve been against Walky hookin back up with Dorothy so fast lol
Oh, Joyce, that is such a you thing to do. Given what she already said to Lucy, I’m surprised Lucy isn’t saying Jennifer’s line in the last panel. Also, this appears to be the first direct interaction between Sal and Jacob.
Geez, relax dude. I know they’ve been in the same groups before and probably spoken off-panel. All I’m saying is that it’s the first time they’ve interacted on-screen. It’s a neat piece of trivia, not a moral judgment.
Sorry that wasn’t aimed at you. It was aimed at making assumptions about how people have interacted when we weren’t looking. Specifically there were a number of people making assumptions about Becky and Asma based on what we haven’t seen and I was making and then undermining a similar assumption about Sal and Jacob. You gave me an opportunity is all.
Okay, serious question–other than people’s feelings about the cheating aspect, is Joyce’s behavior here really significantly more annoying than either Lucy and Jacob’s non-stop bangathon, OR Dina and Becky’s oversharing?
It’s almost like she’s the main character or something. But yes, current arc Joyce is very insufferable and isn’t interesting as the focal point right now.
“Joyce” has never appeared in this webcomic before this exact strip, and we can only assume it’s the screaming white girl because we’ve seen everyone else before. She is not the main character, don’t make things up.
I know she said so.
I was just making a joke.
I was originally going to say “slip shine or it didn’t happen”, but the I didn’t want to mess with the saying.
I guess I should have.
Joyce might be the main character, but there’s a difference between “main character in an ensemble cast with multiple interweaving plotlines” and “every strip must either contain this character or be talking about this character”. I miss when DoA was the former.
It is still the former. We just had two strips about Becky, and less than a week ago we had three about Walky. But we still get these complaints every single time Joyce shows up. It seems like some people expect her to disappear entirely.
It’s almost as if we keep getting Joyce inbetween strips about those other characters, and still haven’t seen anything from characters people maybe want to get more focus than Joyce right now.
Though I doubt this will lead to anyone actually starting problems, this is like the perfect group to just tear into Joyce for cheating lol. Real lions’ den group. The sister of one of the wronged parties who is dating the bff of the other and who might have had an opportunity to learn things went sideways, Billifer who already made a comment the other day, Lucy who probably can’t believe she’s being told this info against her will again lol, and Jacob who is a bit self-righteous and has called Joyce out for scummy behavior before (and even warned Joe about it.)
Like, I doubt they’ll start any problems since a lot of it has already been touched on by different members. But if a group were gonna with Joyce, this is the right one lol.
In Jacob’s defense, he handled telling Raidah better. Joyce hasn’t yet told Joe she’s not interested in a polycule, she appears to just be ghosting the man.
Nope.
This is Monday morning. The protest events were Saturday afternoon. She talked to Joe Sunday morning, but probably later than their first class today.
According to Joyce, it’s been about two days since her and Dorothy spent any significant time apart. They definitely were not together when Joyce and Joe spoke. So…
Well, we could get one of those blow darts that knock people out, and instead or removing her kidneys, we could just stop with the hair. But if you had her hair, what would you do with it?
I’ve got it: in college somebody commented, “you’re like 90% hair and shoes” (I was wearing platform boots). I felt seen.
I’ve never cut my hair beyond trimming it in my whole life, though, so I can’t share it.
Sal’s hair is what I was trying to grow out a few years ago before I realized
1. I’d actually kms if i had to maintain all that. I already injured my wrist and did 12 hour wash days when my curls were bra strap length stretched
2. My curl pattern is too fucked up to ever look like that (loose on top, tight on bottom, so it appears longer on top. My head like an upside down dorito)
3. Breakage 😔
Oh wow, it has never been more over for Math Walking Group
Walky, disregard what I said a few strips ago. BAIL. ABORT MISSION. EJECT. Joyce is way too deep in her own reality to register you freezing her out right now. Take your own route to class and let her dig her own grave.
Sal: Walky’s twin sibling
Lucy: Walky’s ex who left on bad terms but doesn’t seem spiteful
Jennifer: Walky’s childhood friend and basically 2nd sister.
Jacob: Casually friendly with Joe and has had Joyce attempt to date him while he was within the bounds of a relationship.
I’m severely disappointed in the lack of drama so far. This friend group is supposed to burn! So far everyone is either indifferent or going off to angst by themselves.
I mesn, Jennifer already demonstrated it doesn’t really upset her all that much. She went to sorta comfort him in her way, but didn’t get like, offended on his behalf so she doesn’t really factor in here.
I think she was upset for him, because Jennifer did admonish Dorothy by reminding her that she has a lot of pull with Walky and doesn’t seem to appreciate that.
So who in this group knows that Joyce “dumped” Joe for Dotty? Because I can see most of them assuming that Joyce and Joe got it on, then when Joyce proudly says she had sex multiple times with Dorothy, the first question will no doubt be “wait, does Joe know about this?”
I think Sal knows that they kissed but the sex? Ehhh…
Joyce told Lucy that “Dorothy was inside me” so she knows something. Jennifer knows what’s going on. Sal knows about the kissing.
Jacob knows nothing and will probably assume it was with Joe.
I’m not even sure what he was supposed to learn from their “cheating”. Other than to be more careful about being flirty with other girls while he’s in a relationship, but I don’t think he’s realized that yet.
You can argue he shouldn’t have kissed her, but otherwise, he was going to go break up with Raidah anyway. The cheating there changed nothing.
I think that was exactly it, honestly. I think he ended up getting a little bit of a “wait, I flew too close to the sun and ended up doing something actually wrong here” and has decided he needs to be more cautious about those boundaries.
There has not. There were five previous strips with all of these characters, but others were there as well. Most notably, Sarah was in all five of the previous strips, but not this one.
I will do anything to avoid wearing a scarf, because I can’t tune out the sensation of something touching my face. I can’t even handle my own facial hair beyond the first millimeter. I would much rather let the -50°C touch my face, because it technically isn’t a thing that’s touching my face, it’s just cold. The rest of me can make enough warms for my silly little face.
p sure noone says harlot un-ironically anymore but Joyce also did very much cheat lol.
you don’t gotta have sex for it to count as cheating, like that’s actually a very insanely important distinction i need you to know and understand. making out with someone who isn’t your partner is still very much cheating
Hi! Me just popping in to remind everyone that it’s actually fine for people to have different definitions about what counts as cheating!
Personally, for me, it didn’t rise to the level of cheating. Not saying you can’t feel differently, but if I went around “correcting” everyone else’s view of cheating it’d get pushback and I think you can understand why. So maybe just… accept that people’s boundaries are all different.
Okay but generally speaking, like average social standing. Engaging in full physical intimacy is going to be considered cheating. Its doesn’t have to be. But that’s why in consideration to your partner you should have conversations with your partner about where they draw the line.
Everyone’s boundaries are going to be different but for relationships it’s better to err in the line of “rather safe than sorry” as the alternative is possibly unintentionally destroying your relationship entirely.
No one said anything about acher and nymphs personal lives. The “you” used in that comment was obviously a general you, not referring specifically to their lives.
I’m just really tired of every single time someone says “I don’t consider this cheating personally”, that being met with a mini-essay about how “you” need to make sure “you” are communicating and on the same time with “your” partners, often in defense of people with more “typical” senses of what is or isn’t cheating not needing to do any communicating about their expectations.
It’s a long-standing pattern in this argument, not just YourCousinJay today.
In this case I think the fact that Joe actively pushed Joyce to do this, and Walky didn’t really take him and Dorothy that seriously, really blunts the criticism of this being cheating at all. Like, was it nice to do? No. Was it cheating? Again that really depends on your personal boundaries.
They didn’t know Joe nor Walky’s stance on the matter at the time and considering Walky’s last couple panels I don’t think he actually didn’t take it serious.
Hell even Joyce and Dot themselves consider what they did cheating so idk why there’d even be anything more to debate.
It wasn’t a debate, because at no point was I asking you to change you opinions or interested in changing mine. I don’t care what pretend people think, I was asking you (and others) to consider not jumping in to “correct” real life people who don’t have the same boundaries as you.
“Hi! Me just popping in to remind everyone that [b]it’s actually fine for people to have different definitions about what counts as cheating![/b]
Personally, for me, it didn’t rise to the level of cheating. [b]Not saying you can’t feel differently[/b], but if I went around “correcting” everyone else’s view of cheating [b]it’d get pushback and I think you can understand why.[/b] So maybe just… accept that [b]people’s boundaries are all different.[/b]”
Maybe it’ll help if you read it again. This time with emphasis on the important parts you seem to have missed. If you can point out where I was even slightly inviting debate (to change your mind about cheating) rather than just disagree with you, I’ll give you a gold star sticker.
im not the love police and if you clearly communicate with your partner you’re absolutely free to be as open or closed off with physical and emotion affection as you decide to be. Every couple decides for themselves what it means to breach the relationship and I’m not gonna fight that.
I’m literally just talking bout Joyce tho. Since that’s what kicked off the conversation. Someone labeling Joyce a cheater, which is a label she self-identifies with. To which Archer replied by saying it was moving the goalpost because they didn’t frickfrack until Joe and Joyce had broken up already.
“you don’t gotta have sex for it to count as cheating, like that’s actually a very insanely important distinction i need you to know and understand. making out with someone who isn’t your partner is still very much cheating”
Which isn’t anything to do with Joyce and everything to do with disagreeing with whats-his-face’s opinion on what rises to the level of cheating. That’s the part I took issue with and asking you to not continue doing.
No one was trying to argue with you, you just didn’t like being asked not to do something even though I phrased it very intentionally to not steamroll your opinions while having mine and whoever’s opinions steamrolled the whole time.
I did say that, but it’s not to be taken into full isolation lol. There’s context included by proxy of the existance of the comments I replied to within that chain.
I’m not trying to literally say this is how everyone has to do it (beyond having to communicate, all couples should have a healthy baseline of commmunication). I’m speaking specifically in context to Joyce and the prior comments which specifically refer to Joyce.
Okay. I understand that you feel what you said wasn’t a big deal. I feel like asking you (and others) to stop “correcting” people’s opinions was also not a big deal. I didn’t say you’re in the wrong for having that opinion and I’m not interested in discussing communication in relationships. I’m saying that was a real person with a real opinion and it’s fine that it deviates from your opinion and the cartoon’s opinion.
It’s clear that you are just going to keep being defensive about a thing I wasn’t trying to have an argument about so I hope you have a lovely night, but I’m done repeating myself ad nauseum to someone who isn’t interested in understanding.
Homie I was literally clarifying several times over I wasn’t talking about real people tho. I don’t get why you keep going in circles about this like you can only take my original comment in the most indipendant literal way possible fully removed from the actual context of the conversation.
And I’m not trying to be defensive, I’ve literally said several times at this point what you do and don’t consider cheating is entirely up to each individual couple’s own standards and personal boundries. We fully agree there. But that’s also not what I’m talking about which I’ve clarified several times now.
I don’t get how you’re somehow the one who’s tired of this. IM tired of this. Like be so forreal right now. I feel like I’m talking to the dicionary definition of semantics right now.
I’m not tired of it, I just can tell it’s not helping because you’re getting upset about a pretty base-level request, so I decided to stop arguing the point and let you know.
I’d appreciate you not continuing to say mean things since I wasn’t mean to you at any point. Thanks.
“you don’t gotta have sex for it to count as cheating, like that’s actually a very insanely important distinction i need you to know and understand. making out with someone who isn’t your partner is still very much cheating” does seem less specified to Joyce and more general. With that ton you’re throwing in there with “i need you to know and understand”? Which I don’t think was unreasonable, tbh, but it makes what you say after sound more prescriptive.
Now, with you clarifying what you meant, okay. But I can see how it was mildly objectionable wording (which I probably would have used in my initial phrasing too). And then the first follow-up didn’t address that, and seemed to make it more general rather than less.
my second comment didn’t clarify because I assumed the topic of the conversation hadn’t radically shifted away from the topic of Joyce who was the center focus up until that point
I think we’ve been having two different conversations and because of that, I was getting more frustrated over time, because while I understood your point I was in that instance only interested in the fictional relationships as it related to the prior two comments, and probably being too snarky for that to read clearly through my tone of writing.
Beyond that though, I did let my irritation of what felt like at that point, intentional miscommunication or misinterpretation of my words, get the better of me and in turn started name-calling which was rude of me.
Obviously, what is considered cheating is to each their own. I was never trying to debate that and I say that as someone who has been in several consentual, physically open relationships. My intentions were never to shame people who pursue those kinds of relationships or don’t consider physical intimacy such as kissing or more as cheating.
Anyhow gnight I got a holiday to celebrate tomorrow
Didnt you say yourself that it’s based on personal definition and boundaries? According to everyone’s boundaries its cheating. Joe renegotiated his boundaries but clearly there was still enough there for him to use the cheating word, even tho that’s something he has trauma around
I’m not trying to fight, honest. I’m just a little confused what the different is between this definition and the one you provided
So you’re equating pretend people with real people here a bit. I don’t care what the cartoons think, I genuinely don’t. I was telling (your boyfriend?) that it would be nice if real people didn’t constantly get “corrected” like there’s an absolute correct answer on this. When the truth is just that you feel your opinions about this strongly.
My personal definition and boundaries don’t include this act as cheating. Therefore, it is objectively fine for me to feel like the cartoons are incorrect and to discuss that. It’s also totally fine for you to feel like the cartoons are correct and to discuss that.
The problem comes in jumping on people who disagree with you by:
– mocking them for feeling this way on a “settled” issue
– treating them like they’re being a pain in the ass for disagreeing with you
– discussing your opinion like it’s a fact (and the way you arrived at that opinion like it’s science and not just more opinions about what matters)
Not saying you did all that. AM saying that happens all the time, so I (apparently foolishly) asked one person to let other people discuss and hold their own opinions. And that seems to have been a very silly request on my part.
I’ve decided to try explaining more concisely since this is so confusing for some reason:
People have their own definitions of what crosses the line into cheating. And that’s fine! You are entitled to your own decisions on that.
But so am I and so is everyone else.
Therefore, you and all the cartoons can believe that it was cheating, and I can (and do) disagree with that assessment. I can (and do) believe it wasn’t cheating.
Even if you all caps at me. Even if you feel really strongly about it. Even if a lot of people don’t agree.
All I was asking for (which apparently is crazy talk) is that people stop trying to “correct” an opinion that isn’t incorrect, it’s just different than yours.
Would delete that if I could, but if you’re genuinely confused just re-read what they said, repeatedly, about how they’re not talking about Joyce, and they were never talking about Joyce, and consider that when you said “generally speaking, like average social standing” and other things, it absolutely did seem to be you talking… generally… about average social standings… and not just about Joyce/Joe.
its 5am on my end of the world, I’ve been up since 10am. I don’t know Nymph’s exact stance, I assume it’s the latter, I haven’t heard of people who’d take the stance of the former before, but the exact wording in their comment was confusing so I simply asked for clarification because it peaked my interest.
It’s late, there’s a holiday to be celebrated tomorrow so I’ll probably go to bed in a moment but I’m also trying actively not to willfully misinterpret someone’s wording if I can help it. So if they could clear things up I’d appreciate that.
your question wasn’t relevant to the point Nymph was making.
The situation is a completely different one, where two people, who are not in a relationship with each other and do not know each other in real life, happened to have an exchange like this:
“Kissing isn’t cheating.”
“No, kissing is definitely cheating.”
It’s actually not clear that the first person was only talking about Joyce, and it’s not clear that the second person was only talking about Joyce, either.
So. Someone asked the second person to please not “correct” other people’s personal definitions of cheating.
I think in this case it helped to hear from a fourth party, just pointing out that the two comments hadn’t been fully explicit on what they were talking about. I think, from what I’ve seen of Archer, that they definitely didn’t mean it wasn’t cheating by Joyce’s standards, but that’s context not everyone has.
And my LAST comment was like, the opposite of helpful, so I’m glad this one was better. 🙂 The last thing I wanted was to accidentally add more aggro here after you’d bowed out.
Yeah maybe that was it. I think it was something else that made your comment look like sense when I’d said almost the same shit over and over again, but I guess we’ll never really know. I still appreciate you sticking your neck out.
Joyce and Joe both called it cheating so it was cheating. And Dotty. There, done. No stupid argument needed, if everyone involved AND everyone outside the situation who hears about it considers it cheating it’s cheating.
I feel like that should end the argument. Doesn’t matter what your personal boundaries are, all relevant characters agree it was cheating. Joe’s chill with it (or at least pretending to be) but he explicitly said “you cheated on your boyfriend [Idfr the rest of the quote but it was about them being on the front page]”. It’s canonically considered cheating. Discussion over.
I like to think Joe still hasn’t moved from that spot in his room. He’s still there waiting and staring. Danny occasionally stops by to water and feed him.
getting deeply obsessed with a 15+ year old comedy song that everybody was sick of at least 10 years ago, would be one of the most Joyce-coded things ever
At least I’m not the only one who’s imagining Joyce playing the Lonely Island song “I Just Had Sex” as she saunters up to her friends.
Interesting how Jacob said Sal is 70% hair, considering her first incarnation in “Roomies” and the first half of “It’s Walky” had hair so poofy that it looked straight out of an 80s rock music video. Dumbingverse Sal’s hair is practically FLAT compared to early Walkyverse Sal.
I was kinda hoping that moment of introspection about her sexuality Joyce had a few strips ago would extend to some introspection about how badly she’s behaved towards other characters since she got together with Dorothy. But I guess I was wrong.
Well, we saw both Jennifer and Lucy learn about the sex, and we saw Sal see Joyce and Dorothy together… so, if Lucy told Jacob, which would make sense, yeah, everyone here is in the loop.
So what did you guys get on your Spotify wrapped/YouTube music recap/whatever? My number one artist was Jamie Paige (as you can probably tell from that one autistic rant a week ago) and my top song was Igaku by Sasuke Haraguchi with teto. So, yeah I basically got goated taste
I listen to a lot of persona/Shin Megami Tensei music so my top artists was kind of polluted by “Atlus Sound Team” which is a catch all they use on there, but otherwise my top artists were the Mountain Goats, They Might Be Giants, Pete Seeger, and the Oh Hellos. I recognize that makes me seem like I only listen to folk music so I would like to say that new wave and citypop were big genres for me as well, and my top song was Space Age Love Song by Flock of Seagulls.
Mountain goats enjoyed spotted 👁️👁️
That’s a really fun mix you got there. I haven’t listened to like, a ton of mountain goats broadly speaking, but I’ve listened to a few of their songs an obsessive amount. The obvious No Children (I want “hand in unlovable hand” tattooed) and Old College Try but also This Year goes so insanely hard oml. Sometimes you just gotta belt out the words “I AM GONNA MAKE IT THROUGH THIS YEAR IF IT KILLS ME” to yourself y’know?
My main folk source is Jason Webley (yes I grew up on Welcome to Night Vale), who was number 5 in my most streamed albums this year lol. Sometimes you just gonna stream one singular artist that you’re obsessed with but forgot to listen to for a while for a whole day or three, get them in your algorithm
My #1 artist was BBNO$ and my top song was inner ninja.
Infant no currency wasn’t a surprise to me but seeinf inner ninja as my top song sirprised me as I only listen to it when I play Shen in League of Legends BUT when I do I do losten to it on repeat
Come to think of it, maybe that’s because I don’t use YouTube Music specifically.
If I had to guess though, my most-listened artists this year are probably The Pine, Mad Honey, Bathe Alone, Old Gods of Asgard (I have not played Alan Wake, and Caramell.
The rest of my top 5 (low-key kinda fucked bc Spotify struggles with vocaloid)
Two Door Cinema Club (they will never not be in my top 5 ig, i think they were my whole top 5 songs last year)
Sasuke Haraguchi (teto producer)
PUP
Kasane Teto
So basically 3/5 Teto. 4 of my top 5 tracks were teto with a single Miku song that snuck in bc kikuo is one of the best prods to ever do it. Other highlights include 100gecs, Jason Webley, Kendrick Lamar GNX, VocaloKat (trans women make the best vocaloid music I swear to God), Flavor Foley, Yuma covers of popular vocaloid songs bc that is an underrated voice bank right there, some indie rock, a little big of creepynuts leftover from last years hyper fixation, and songs off the oshi no Ko sound track
I only started listening to vocaloid and teto literally new years eve last year btw, this is exactly 11 months and some change of concentrated hyper fixation
I don’t do Spotify, and only sort of do YouTube.
Music I like gets (or already has been) downloaded and put in my local library. I have songs (mostly mp3s, with a few midi tunes and other formats) going back to the early 90s, which I listen to primarily via Winamp.
I am old.
Hah, I was mocking my teenager today because her spotify wrapped told her she’d listened to 1100 different songs and I gleefully pointed out I have something like 4x that many on my One Big MP3 Playlist.
Remember when people were complaining about Joyce leaving him hanging? And then other people said “have some patience, the newspaper thing is REALLY urgent…”
And so is Hank showing up…
And so is them having sex for the first time…
And so was Joyce scrambling to tell Lucy Dorothy was “inside her” (a normal thing you tell your acquaintances)…
And so was Joyce buying ice cream…
And so was Joyce and Dorothy doing laundry (not a euphemism)
And so was J&D needing to set Asma up on a bowling date…
And so was a good night’s sleep…
And so was going for a run to the clothes store…
I’m being patient folks but I’m getting a slight inkling that Joyce doesn’t give much of a fuck about this dude
From the in-universe timeframe, something *will* happen on Tuesday when they have to do science class together. In IRL terms, this Monday is probably going to last 3 months, like Sunday did.
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75% hair, eh? :0
“I could cuddle up in their and stay safe and warm forever.” T~T <3
I mean, she wasn’t wrong.
She’s also pocket sized. This doesn’t show so much, as half the cast is short.
Who, Sal? Not really. She’s like 5’7″, I think. Same height as Walky.
.maybe jeffepp above is 6’4″+ and so 5’7″ IS “pocket sized” to theM
i feel like sal’s amazing amount of hair is kinda burying the lede re: her warmness (which is that she’s smoking right now lmao)
In more ways than one.
joint or cigarette, believe me,
smoking is not nearly as effective a way of keeping yourself warm as it looks o3o
Not even if you’re smoking hot?
Obviously : smoking makes you cool, not hot.
(falling back on a cliché from the 1950’s for humorous purposes only. DON’T SMOKE, kids!)
I mean you make obvious pun but like
smoking tobacco does indeed tend to lower your body temperature from the usual 98.6, thus making you cooler in a quite literal sense
That’s not usual.
98.6 °F is what you get when you convert 37 °C to °F. But 37 °C is rounded. Grossly rounded. Normal is more like 36.6 °C… and that’s inside. In the armpit, I have 35.9 °C. When I have 37 °C in the armpit, I’m ill and stay at home.
There’s a decent amount of individual variation, and it’d be nice if more people recognized that. (Still bitter about how as a kid, my normal temp tended to be on the lower end, but a temperature of 99.3°F didn’t count as a fever for my elementary school, so I couldn’t go home.)(“Fever” was considered to start at 100°F for school purposes, 100.3°F in general.)
Yeah, it’s annoying that that normal temperature in F pretends to a lot more precision than it really has.
Being Sal is so easy!
Every morning I wake up, skip the workout, cuz I’m naturally buff and I don’t wanna get too big, ya know,
Do almost nothing with my amazing hair!
Go to class, I don’t really have to try, but I do anyway,
Fight a few bad guys, feed a few street dogs…
Don’t trust routine group walks.
this line upnis also funny when you think about it:
1. Jacob: The crush that Raidah was all about and wanted Joyce to hook up with.
2. Lucy: the girl who JUST broke up with Walky and hooked up wtih Jacob.
and 3. Billiefer: the mess of insecurities that broke up with her toxic yuri romance, lost her shady bf Asher to emo Ethan, and helped send Joyce Dorothy’s tit pics.
Not Raidah, Sarah. Morning’s fried my brain lol
and 4. Sal, the girl whose hair and look Joyce was obsessed with a completely heterosexual way.
I’m pretty sure that Jennifer didn’t help send Joyce Dorothy’s tit pics.
accidentally sent them, technically. Seemed less like she cared who they were being sent to, but more than Dorothy was doing a shit job at takin the photos.
she uh, was still trying to help Dorothy with her tit pics game tho lol
She sent Joyce her own tit pics from Dorothy’s phone, which is kind of a weird power move. Maybe?
Dumbing of Age Book 16: I Fucked!
I’d buy that book.
… because I buy all the books. But I’d buy that one extra hard.
This title must be.
This book must be.
I will trade money for the book.
Oh good. Joyce is back.
Kvetch here ⬇️
I’ll use this hate thread to say I don’t like Jacob or Lucy and not elaborate any further.
Wait, no! Come back!
This is a wonderful distraction!
I also dislike Lucy and will not elaborate further because exhaustion is making me see double and I don’t think I have the energy to do that tonight lol
Which means you see two Lucies, doubling your displeasure. Hope you got some sleep.
Me Neither. You could quietly retire them and I’d hardly notice.
I’m mostly OK with Jacob, but heck with Lucy.
Jacob was okay, but he’s served his purpose. Do we really still need him.
“Jacob was okay.” We’ve been judging Joyce and Dorothy for weeks if not months for cheating. You know Jacob did that too right? He’s not okay. Unless the bar is at it’s okay to cheat on people we don’t like.
Jacob kind of did it too, but Jacob only did that. He kissed Joyce once, then went and immediately broke up with Raidah and didn’t switch to declaring he’d always retroactively been in love with Joyce. He (and even more so Joyce then) was definitely in the wrong, but he wasn’t rewarded for it.
There was a lot of discussion of it at the time, but since it didn’t stay the focus of the comic for months on end after the kiss (and Jacob actually disappeared for years) we stopped harping on it.
That said, I’m really hoping Joe talks to Jacob about the whole thing, because Jacob may have some thoughts about Joyce.
They already talked about it; Jacob pretty much warned Joe that he was down bad to the max, and that messing around with Joyce was going to get him emotionally burned. Joe’s response was more or less “naw dawg, I’m happy to deal with her inevitable mistakes, because she perf.”
Yeah, but it’s a different conversation after the cheating.
Well, I agree that Lucy shouldn’t be counted as a reward.
That would be a Hydian solution to Jekyllian problem.
Jacob did exactly what Joyce and Dorothy should have done after cheating on their partner, and didn’t then start dating Joyce because he blamed both of them for it. Meanwhile Joyce seems unwilling to consider that she did anything wrong and Dorothy couldn’t even manage to say “I cheated on you” to Walky.
I like Lucy if only for the fact that when she said Joyce is her bisexual doppelgänger and watching how they both speedrun relationships has me feeling a strange sense of vindication.
same
i’m out of stuff to say about Joyce so I’ll kvetch in general
I fuckin hate our government,
found out today I got rejected for Disability Income, so my cousin gotta help me file an appeal,
i knew this was likely but
between this and my agonizingly inflamed leg
just wanna curl up into a ball and cry rn T~T
Okay so I don’t know if this is preaching to the choir, I apologize if you already know this or really don’t want advice! Given the subject, though:
They always, alwaysreject the first time. You could be bedridden dying of cancer. That doesn’t make it easier, though, or any less majestically fucked up.
Unless your cousin is a lawyer (oh boy do I hope they are) you should be aware that most people who get in have one- there’s a whole genre of lawyer who work on commission, getting you through in exchange for a percentage of the backpay the government inevitably owes you when they do let you through, because they have to pay you through back when you first filed the paperwork. If you can jump through that hoop and sacrifice that money (it’s usually like a third), that will work.
Hey it aint preaching to the choir, i apprecitate the sympathies ;-;
Some people who are close to me are also helping me with this any way they can, thankfully
ironically enough my cousin actually is a lawyer but not that kind of lawyer LOL
Everything nse said is spot-on. First application is almost always rejected. Initial appeals are usually rejected, as well, though occasionally you’ll get lucky. It’s the hearing stage, which occurs after that initial appeal, that you tend to see the most successes (and if the lawyer is taking your case, that means they think you have a good chance, since they don’t get paid for their work unless they succeed).
So, yes, as big a hit as that 1/3rd is, it’s absolutely worth it to get over the finish line.
(Source for the above: My wife is now on disability, and this is exactly how it went down.)
Geez, every time i see a comment like this i’m amazed all you Americans haven’t just eaten all the insurance providers. How do you live like this? When you have default procedures for expecting rejection and having to work around it just to get a smidge of decent healthcare.
This isn’t about insurance, it’s government disability. It’s notoriously difficult to get in America and basically everyone gets rejected the first time. In America it doesn’t matter if your provider is public or private, neither wants to pay.
Sorry to hear that. Friend of mine just found herself in similar circumstances. I hate that your country does this to people.
It took me two years and half a dozen diagnoses and two rejections. Every day since being approved I haven’t regretted the fight to get on disability and I wish you all the luck and speed with the process.
I didn’t think any version of Joyce could rival how annoying pre-deprogramming Joyce was but by golly she might’ve found a way
And adding to that, she proclaimed herself “the best version of herself” to Raidah……It’s a very bad sign.
The true test of Joyce’s theory awaits at the next biology class
It’s a pattern with Joyce though. I expect she’ll get over it.
Her early “pre-deprogramming” behavior. Her behavior right after she came out as atheist and now this.
The question is less “Will she get over this?” and more “How much of her friend circle will she torch through sheer force of being really fucking annoying about this?”
It helps that, through every stage of her life, her entire peer group has already been thoroughly primed to expect that she’s going to be annoying. Like, if someone acts the way you consistently expect them to, you end up getting numb to it. I think that’s a fact about Joyce’s peer group, that sometimes doesn’t click to everyone in the comments. They know she’s very passionate, and very well-meaning, but also very rigid, and completely lacking in worldliness.
Like, if you’re gonna befriend somebody who’s going through cult deprogramming, and processing more than an entire life’s worth of trauma, you just…have different expectations of that person, from the jump. It’s like adopting a beaten dog, then being surprised that it’s skittish and anxious; if that’s something you don’t think you’re willing to handle, you don’t adopt the dog in the first place.
I remember when I could comfortably call Joyce Brown one of my favorite DoA characters, specifically because of the layers, complexity, and messiness of her compassion towards others and how it metabolized into a well-meaning but often misguided passion for doing right by others, and how that innate quality of hers dovetailed with the fact that her upbringing gave her a very skewed initial impression of what “doing right by others” even looked like. Her best traits and her worst traits were inextricable, because they were fundamentally the same traits. She was fascinating and well-written and flawed in a very human and grounded way, even when she was at her most cartoonish.
I miss that Joyce. I hope that Joyce comes back someday.
Ah, whoops, bonus kvetch: I somehow beefed the HTML tag. Ah, well.
For my part, I like Joyce beat when she is excited about something. She was adorable when she was excited about Jesus, and when she was excited about Jacob, and she’s adorable now that she’s excited about having had sex.
Dorothy’s nowhere to be seen, so that Joyce might come back for a little bit.
They are both the same people. People make mistakes. Especially teenagers. Some people really wanna read boring comics, and I don’t understand
“Mistakes”
I’ll agree with that once the narrative stops acting like Doyce is the best thing ever. This doesn’t really feel like a “mistake”
I explicitly talked about how interesting I found Joyce’s previous manifestation of her character flaws, so I really don’t know how you got “I only want to read Joyce when she’s perfect and flawless” out of that.
My problem is that this is the boring Joyce. All she has done for the past four months is go “I AM HORNY FOR DOROTHY” on repeat, and I would like a little more variety in either her character beats or in whicj character the A-Plot is focusing on, because right now Joyce’s narrative holding pattern is a pacing slog.
Same.
I almost posted this a little further down, as a continuation of another thought, but: I wouldn’t class myself as a hater, mostly because that would require me to feel something for this pairing stronger than boredom or apathy. I am, to use the memetic phrasing, “not mad, just disappointed.” I’ve honestly been more engaged and impressed by Throwatron’s commentary(s) than the comic itself of late.
I rarely bother to post about that because what does it matter? It won’t change anything; Willis will continue doing what pleases Willis, and I think that how most of us readers/commenters feel about… all of this is pretty well set by this point, so I won’t be changing any minds or opinions.
I just hope that Joyce’s arrogant smile gradually fades. Yes, many mocked the lack of consequences, but they will appear sooner or later.
Yes, it’s also necessary that Dorothy face the consequences, but the fact that she still expresses guilt at least keeps that last glimmer of hope alive.
Will they appear sooner or later?
Its been like 6 months now (inb4 “um actually in comic its been like 2 days” stfu)
Ok: Dot, this hater shit is neither cute nor funny. Just keep quiet or leave.
So, kvetching done
I’m not a great fan of hate either… including the “if you don’t think like I do, shut up or get out” variety.
The hater containment thread is useful, anyway, allowing people to express their grievances without interfering with more positive threads, while people who don’t like it can just scroll past (and people like me can read anyway but be forewarned of negativity).
Apparently, the only hitch in this plan, is that the people the thread isn’t for, don’t seem physically or mentally capable of scrolling past it without feeling judged. I don’t know what the fix for that is.
Upgrade to an interface that supports collapsing threads.
Much, much easier said than done, depending on how these threads are implemented in the first place. There’s a reason everyone just uses Disqus lately.
it’s weird, isn’t it? I’m entirely capable of scrolling past posts that are expressing appreciation for this development
and the lack of any since, but apparently that doesn’t work for those who don’t want to see any criticism of it.The hater energy is just so ridiculous.
Big Z, can you bring the push room around?
Oh no! Someone disagrees with me about a single storyline in a webcomic! Out! Out!
That was uncalled for Liara. You’ve hardly been quiet with your takes.
No thank you. I do not think I will do either of those things.
Have a lovely day!
more trans women is always a good thing!
Dawg imma introduce you to this incredible concept, it’s called scrolling. Absolute gamechanger
Seriously fuck off, its a single thread. No one’s holding you at gunpoint forcing you to read the hater thread
*gently escorts you out of the thread with a pushbroom*
Are you perhaps confused by the fact that “hater” is being used here as a humorous exaggeration by people who are dissatisfied by aspects of some of these characters or storylines? Like, do you think the majority of us somehow actually “hate” Willis and/or the comic, as opposed to (to use myself as an example) harboring some mild degree of dislike for how Joyce/Dorothy are acting and how the story’s treating that?
I’ve talked openly about how I’ve been reading Willis’ work since I was in middle school and how much of an influence they’ve been on my own creative pursuits!
I mean, I’ve said myself I wouldn’t dream of criticizing unless I were the kind of fan who owned all the books.
Not to mention the whole “I’m a hater, then” was itself a reaction to the plethora of “Doyce did nothing wrong ever and we should just have them kissing every strip for the rest of time” which is itself (I hope) generally an attempt at humorous hyperbole.
(of course, everything about this discussion is continually exacerbated by the existence of actual homophobic hatred in the comment spaces, the existence of people who seem to literally think any criticism of Doyce is tantamount to homophobia, etc etc, etc. Including the fact that I have to put in the disclaimer that OBVIOUSLY the first one is worse than the second.)
I *would* own all the books, but I only recently came into sufficient shelf space, and, well… there’s a *lot* of comics I wanna put on there…
Hey, not a criticism, but just an observation based on reading more than commenting over the past 6~months, ever since the kiss that might be helpful or illuminating.
So I’ve just noticed a couple of recurring strands coming up over and over again here in the comments and on tumblr. Those strands being:
1) This has been an accurate or affirming exploration of being fundamentalist and not knowing you’re queer and having to explore that (and less so but sometimes included, this has been an accurate response to messy college relationships or cheating)
2) This has not been an accurate exploration of being queer or at least my experience of those things (I remember Dot saying it reminded them Doyce reminding them of every baby gay couple who didn’t last a year in college)
This is on a similar vector but not quite the same
3) This is an accurate exploration of having to reevaluate or explore your values after being raised in a strict or controlling environment and this is normal/natural to go through periods of fucking it up and is therefore not a big deal
4) This is not an accurate exploration and even accounting for a strict or controlling environment, Joyce should have know better and clearly are acting unethical/immoral.
Like even setting aside the distinction between “reasonable haters” vs “actual bigots”[air quotes for a reason (not saying there weren’t people being bigoted or obtuse}], I saw people even in the early days after the kiss strip before “sides” had really formed who classified themselves as reasonable haters saying Joyce was acting like a literal sociopath and was clearly incapable of moral reasoning without religion and implying some amount of time later in later comments section, that if you didn’t understand said persons point of view you were either a literal child or an idiot or incapable or moral reasoning or all three. Or that Doyce were cheating skanks (exact wording). So I saw that happening before the “I’m a hater then”.
So mostly from my observation, it’s been mostly people speaking from their lived experience, feeling like they’re not being heard or misunderstood, maliciously or otherwise and assuming the worst about the other party, with bigots or people just happy to have a gay couple throw in on both sides.
Please do not use they or them pronouns for me. I only use she/her.
My apologies. I will correct that in the future (I really wish there was an edit button in the comment section.)
To be fair “they/them” tend to be the pronouns you use for someone who’s gender you dont know.
@Yotomoe: Even so she expressed her preference, so that needs be kept in the forefront, out of respect.
”Do not use they” is hard on a Finn. My native language doesn’t do gendered pronouns, and I love using they to be inclusive, and to significy that people are people to me, not slotted into buckets based on gender. I’ll do my best Dot, but if I offend accidentally, the explanation is this.
@Yotomoe: I recognize that, which is why I am not mad, I’m just gently correcting. While they/them is good practice for if you don’t know someone’s pronouns, they can also be used harmfully to degender trans women and disrespect their gender identity. This has happened to me on several occasions. This isn’t to imply that’s what samurai was doing here, just to explain why I take such a hardline stance on only using she/her for myself.
So a few things:
– Wild to be so cruel to a total fucking stranger. Genuinely mindblowing. Just scroll past if you don’t want to see it lmao.
– It’s not a requirement here that opinions be “cute” or “funny” in order to be said. Otherwise you couldn’t have commented this particular trashbag opinion.
– “Just keep quiet or leave” … or you’ll what? This reads like bullying, darling, but you forgot to add the threat of a knucklesandwich to really keep the People Who Disagree With You down.
Honestly, I think you thought other people had complained about Dot so you’d get a lot of support for trying to dunk on her. I hope your ego can take the backlash you got instead for being a complete pineapple about things.
I must confess to some amusement at the ongoing pattern of someone getting really rude and complaining about me and everyone else just looking at them like they’ve ruined the vibe at the function
You’re the only one keeping us sane Dot nwn
I mean, they ruined the vibe lmfao
I’d like to actually state for the record that Dot is, in fact, cute and funny. At all times.
Many people are saying this.
Big, strong men are coming up to me all the time, and they’re telling me this, and they’re crying.
Added to my list of making sure you get extra complaints
I’m sorry you have to look at opinions you disagree with, that must be so hard for you
Speaking as a person who is not personally a hater, and who does not particularly think the hater threads are needed. If given the choice between Dot, or people trying to silence her from making the hater threads via being an ass, my vote is for keeping Dot, thanks.
Dot rules, you leave :p
I guess Jennifer is back with the old group pretty fast
When Joyce isn’t in the scene, other characters should be asking, “Where’s Joyce?”
The issue is I actually like nearly all of the main characters most of the time. I’m just finding Joyce really obnoxious right now because she seems to still have zero regret about how she treated Joe.
She acted badly… that is fine, humans make mistakes. But an important part of mistakes is learning from them and she doesn’t seem to have learned anything.
In the case of Jacob it seemed like she got the message… but it kind of seems like she only recognized that she messed up because she didn’t get what she wanted. In this arc she got exactly what she wanted, and she isn’t learning anything.
Fresh air is good for you, Jacob. Stop complaining.
No one ever explains exactly how fresh air, by which they inevitably mean unfiltered outdoor air with an unregulated temperature, is supposed to be good for you. I don’t freeze to death in indoor air as a rule and it has far less common allergens. The humidity is also much better regulated.
Lower CO₂ concentrations than indoor air, usually. Typically lower viral presence during cold/flu/COVID seasons as well
Not if you’re allergic to dust mites or mold. Absolutely yes if you’re allergic to pollen…
In the bad old days there would be CO and soot from the combustion-based heating system. And less tuberculosis from consumptive housemates coughing.
Some people just can’t hack the cold.
Raises hand.
meanwhile, IDK how so many people seem impervious to the heat. one can always put more clothes on, but can only take so many off!
Hello, portion of Joyce’s friend-group that she hasn’t alienated!
… actually, I’m not sure Jacob falls in that category.
Sal might be borderline depending on how Joyce plays her cards
My initial read was “neutral on Joyce, somewhat uncomfortable around Dorothy for a while” but this might push Sal into the “Ok, you’re actually making this too weird to be seen with you” zone
Is Sal even aware that her brother got back together with Dorothy for a few days?
Oh wait, someone else pointed out below that Sal witnessed Dorothy and Joyce kissing. Though that doesn’t guarantee that Sal knew any details about anyone’s relationship status.
Too bad, she has to go ~bowling~
She can speedrun this
Sal is so much cooler than everyone else that these changes are microscopic to her, though
depends on how bowling goes
Yeah, let’s not be hasty.
I am hearing that in Treebeard’s voice.
Loial for me, but same vibes.
*That she hasn’t alienated so far!
The interesting thing to me here is how Jacob’s going to react to hearing about Joyce’s recent dating events — which is now more likely given what she led with.
Kinda hoping for a “wait, you didn’t learn your lesson about the whole cheating/cheating-adjacent crap with ME?” response.
It would be funnier if the conversation goes elsewhere, she doesn’t explain and later Jacob winds up talking to Joe about it, still under the impression Joyce was talking about Joe.
That would also be acceptable, but only if Jacob gives Joe the ol’ “I warned you, I prepared you, I instructed you, I told you what to expect”
Yup, that ol’ white discussion.
I fucked, you fucked, we’re fucked!
:thumbsup 🙂
“Who has two thumbs and has fucked?”, indeed.
Fucks for everyone!
Except Sal, she has no fucks to give. 😛
‘Cause recently she gave Danny one.
Rocked his socks, it did.
Sal is so generous with her fucks, she runs out sometimes.
Then has none to give.
I recommend Thomas Bejamin Esqures song
“no more f***s to give”. It can be a surprisingly uplifting.
Oh, Joyce lol
I would give Willis all the chocolate gold coins in the world if he had the rest of the game pissed at Joyce.
Sal has been extra awful as she should be there for her brother. Walky has done a massive course correct in his life to try to be there for Sal.
Does she even know Dorothy broke up with him for Joyce? They haven’t talked yet and live fairly separate social lives most of the time. This could be how she finds out.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Sal finds that out at bowling. Otherwise, it’s gonna get back to Danny, at some point, and he’ll rightfully gripe to Sal about it, if he doesn’t just go straight to dressing down Dorothy about it.
Yeah Sal shrugging off catching them kissing was one of my bigger disappointments with this storyline. If it’d been just for the sake of the punchline-of-the-day and there’d been a follow up strip where she acted right, fine NBD, it’s a punchilne-of-the-day comic strip. But it’s been weeks and weeks, so at this point…well, maybe/hopefully tomorrow, I guess.
TBH, I don’t really think Sal gives much of a care about their relationships. The fact she’s in this strip almost surprised me because I forgot, on occasion, she does interact with the whole group.
If the line for Sal is loyalty to Walky then she should have Lucy and Jacob too. Lucy dumped Walky after coming to Sal and bragging about them dating. What do Walky’s relationships even look like from Sal’s perspective? A girl you don’t really know says she’s dating your brother, okay? They walk together to class for a couple a weeks and then Amber shows up to your family dinner?! And then there’s a party where your brother you were told is dating Lucy shows up with Dorothy, not really your business either way, but Lucy ends the night making out with Jacob and your brother you thought Lucy was dating is visibly upset by it. Next morning Lucy is Walking to class with Jacob and not your brother. What is Sal supposed to do with all this besides what she’s already been doing which is minding her own business? Like if the standard set here is Sal should be on Walky’s side and not associate with anyone who treated him like shit this walk should just be her and Jennifer and Billie barely even qualifies.
Sal knew about the break up with Lucy the day it happened.
Because that’s the same day Walky called his mom a racist.
He then told Sal about doing so and why he did so.
That prompted Sal to Invite Walky to crash Jennifer’s karaoke party, to get his mind off things.
As for Sal not knowing Lucy, Lucy had been hanging with Walky for months by the time they started dating, and Sal was one of the people who asked Lucy if Walky finally knew they were dating (because it was clear Lucy liked him and desired him as such).
They were also walking to class together prior to Lucy and Walky dating.
Long story long, Sal did know Lucy and Sal was aware of Lucy and Walky “blowing up”, though she might have been as unsure of the extent of it as some of the readers (myself included) were.
I forgot Walky told her about the breakup. But has he told her about the split with Dorothy? Does she even know they were back together? His recent relationship history has been so volatile I think it’s unreasonable to expect for her to recognize Walky is depressed from a breakup.
She hasn’t spoken to Walky so isn’t aware that he got cheated on then found out by getting laughed at, I don’t think even Walky realizes Dorothy cheated on him yet so there might be an assumption that they broke up before Dorothy got with Joyce.
Did Sal even know that they were back together? It was like 4 days or something.
I can’t find any evidence she knew
They were at the party together I think.
didn’t they only get back together for like, two days or something? if anything I imagine Sal would’ve been against Walky hookin back up with Dorothy so fast lol
*slaps hand*
No! No Patreon. This will not last enough to make it worth it!
Also: UUUUUUGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!
Oh, Joyce, that is such a you thing to do. Given what she already said to Lucy, I’m surprised Lucy isn’t saying Jennifer’s line in the last panel. Also, this appears to be the first direct interaction between Sal and Jacob.
Because we haven’t seen them interact on screen, we must assume that Jacob is being incredibly rude to Sal, a complete stranger.
That is how it works, isn’t it?
I mean there’s no evidence they’ve ever walked together before.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2025/comic/book-15/03-me-and-who-you-say-i-was-yesterday/knowwho/
Not even a single strip, much less two.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2025/comic/book-15/03-me-and-who-you-say-i-was-yesterday/releaseyou/
Never attended the same parties.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2024/comic/book-14/04-for-me-it-was-tuesday/partypartypartyhard/
And most importantly, she’s never commented on his hair.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2024/comic/book-15/01-love-dares-you-to-change/verygoodmornin/
Geez, relax dude. I know they’ve been in the same groups before and probably spoken off-panel. All I’m saying is that it’s the first time they’ve interacted on-screen. It’s a neat piece of trivia, not a moral judgment.
Sorry that wasn’t aimed at you. It was aimed at making assumptions about how people have interacted when we weren’t looking. Specifically there were a number of people making assumptions about Becky and Asma based on what we haven’t seen and I was making and then undermining a similar assumption about Sal and Jacob. You gave me an opportunity is all.
Oh, okay, thanks for clarifying!
Okay, serious question–other than people’s feelings about the cheating aspect, is Joyce’s behavior here really significantly more annoying than either Lucy and Jacob’s non-stop bangathon, OR Dina and Becky’s oversharing?
…so does this count as the 48 hr curse coming back?
Yes
It’s almost like she’s the main character or something. But yes, current arc Joyce is very insufferable and isn’t interesting as the focal point right now.
I am pretty interested honestly, am having a great time.
+
Ditto. More Joyce, please.
“Joyce” has never appeared in this webcomic before this exact strip, and we can only assume it’s the screaming white girl because we’ve seen everyone else before. She is not the main character, don’t make things up.
She looks kind of familiar though. Wasn’t she in the background at Galasso’s?
I think she was de-sausaging a personal sausage pizza, like some kind of serial killer.
She has since happily had another kind of sausage in her mouth
Pics or it didn’t happen
She said so.
Too lazy to search for it, but she screamed out “I put my mouth on his weenus”, to Dotty I believe.
I know she said so.
I was just making a joke.
I was originally going to say “slip shine or it didn’t happen”, but the I didn’t want to mess with the saying.
I guess I should have.
Other Patreon, or it didn’t happen…
Oh my!
Joyce might be the main character, but there’s a difference between “main character in an ensemble cast with multiple interweaving plotlines” and “every strip must either contain this character or be talking about this character”. I miss when DoA was the former.
Dunno why people keep missing this point
Because it isn’t useful to them.
It is still the former. We just had two strips about Becky, and less than a week ago we had three about Walky. But we still get these complaints every single time Joyce shows up. It seems like some people expect her to disappear entirely.
It’s almost as if we keep getting Joyce inbetween strips about those other characters, and still haven’t seen anything from characters people maybe want to get more focus than Joyce right now.
A self inflicted curse I see.
The best kind.
As long as they’re apart I don’t consider part of the curse. Bc that means things are actually allowed to happen even if they’re on screen
Though I doubt this will lead to anyone actually starting problems, this is like the perfect group to just tear into Joyce for cheating lol. Real lions’ den group. The sister of one of the wronged parties who is dating the bff of the other and who might have had an opportunity to learn things went sideways, Billifer who already made a comment the other day, Lucy who probably can’t believe she’s being told this info against her will again lol, and Jacob who is a bit self-righteous and has called Joyce out for scummy behavior before (and even warned Joe about it.)
Like, I doubt they’ll start any problems since a lot of it has already been touched on by different members. But if a group were gonna with Joyce, this is the right one lol.
Oh god that’s right, this is the second time Lucy’s been ambushed by Joyce’s Proclimation of Fuck
Jacob doesn’t get to throw any stones, he also willingly kissed Joyce and went along with it…lol he ain’t got clean hands
Unclean lips.
“If your lips drive you say say unclean things, silence them by smooshing them against someone else’s”
Practical actionable advice. What’s the world coming too?
In Jacob’s defense, he handled telling Raidah better. Joyce hasn’t yet told Joe she’s not interested in a polycule, she appears to just be ghosting the man.
Once again, he proposed that less than 24 hours ago. She’s allowed time to think.
It’s been around two days.
Nope.
This is Monday morning. The protest events were Saturday afternoon. She talked to Joe Sunday morning, but probably later than their first class today.
According to Joyce, it’s been about two days since her and Dorothy spent any significant time apart. They definitely were not together when Joyce and Joe spoke. So…
So Joyce was wrong.
Two days. It’s the most definitive in-universe statement of time I have seen, so it stands until the strip otherwise states.
At this point, unless Lucy’s said something to him, Jacob would assume she’s talking about her and Joe fucking, right?
That could lead to entertaining misunderstandings.
Sal’s hair is the kind of hair I want.
Well, we could get one of those blow darts that knock people out, and instead or removing her kidneys, we could just stop with the hair. But if you had her hair, what would you do with it?
I’ve got it: in college somebody commented, “you’re like 90% hair and shoes” (I was wearing platform boots). I felt seen.
I’ve never cut my hair beyond trimming it in my whole life, though, so I can’t share it.
Sal’s hair is what I was trying to grow out a few years ago before I realized
1. I’d actually kms if i had to maintain all that. I already injured my wrist and did 12 hour wash days when my curls were bra strap length stretched
2. My curl pattern is too fucked up to ever look like that (loose on top, tight on bottom, so it appears longer on top. My head like an upside down dorito)
3. Breakage 😔
The intermittent bouts of alopecia don’t help
Y’know what, good on her for being proud of it, though I don’t know how Dorothy would feel about you shouting it so loudly in public.
Take a picture, it’ll last longe– you know what, never mind
Pretty sure that Dorothy could direct a better pr0n vid than Roz. Who has firm ethics but soft videography skillz.
It’s pretty much the same thing Becky & Dina after they fucked for the first time.
Oh Billifer
Jennifer, if there’s ever a time to be yourself, please let it be now. PLEASE.
I think we’re going to go the other way, straight into a Bisexuality discussion.
Don’t be silly. That’s an urban myth.
There’s no such thing as a discussion.
Jennifer does have dis cushion
Two of them on her upper body in fact
Joyce received photographic evidence of them just the other day
herself? the suicide pack bisexual? the closeted bisexual? the mean bongo? which self are we talkin about, because I dunno where her arc is goin lol
the “Walky is like a brother to me and you just orchestrated him having a really bad time and i had to comfort him” self is what I’m hoping for.
I just can’t see any of these specific people thinking that its cool that Joyce just broke up a relationship.
There is going to come a time where the gang starts hanging out with Joe, just to use him as Cringy Joyce Repellant.
*mental image of Sal being a fluffball, but 75%*
here she is, the friend that wears a leather jacket and boots
Maybe she’ll be an acceptable substitute.
Alice who?
Contents may have settled during shipment.
Oh wow, it has never been more over for Math Walking Group
Walky, disregard what I said a few strips ago. BAIL. ABORT MISSION. EJECT. Joyce is way too deep in her own reality to register you freezing her out right now. Take your own route to class and let her dig her own grave.
Sal: Walky’s twin sibling
Lucy: Walky’s ex who left on bad terms but doesn’t seem spiteful
Jennifer: Walky’s childhood friend and basically 2nd sister.
Jacob: Casually friendly with Joe and has had Joyce attempt to date him while he was within the bounds of a relationship.
I’m just saying…I’d like some friction here.
A smidgeon of teenage verbal slapfighting? Please?
I’m severely disappointed in the lack of drama so far. This friend group is supposed to burn! So far everyone is either indifferent or going off to angst by themselves.
I mesn, Jennifer already demonstrated it doesn’t really upset her all that much. She went to sorta comfort him in her way, but didn’t get like, offended on his behalf so she doesn’t really factor in here.
Was that before or after she kicked him off the loft bed?
I think she was upset for him, because Jennifer did admonish Dorothy by reminding her that she has a lot of pull with Walky and doesn’t seem to appreciate that.
*monkey’s paw curls*
Wish granted.
They’ll roast Walky on the way to math class while Joyce gleefully watches.
So who in this group knows that Joyce “dumped” Joe for Dotty? Because I can see most of them assuming that Joyce and Joe got it on, then when Joyce proudly says she had sex multiple times with Dorothy, the first question will no doubt be “wait, does Joe know about this?”
I think Sal knows that they kissed but the sex? Ehhh…
Joyce told Lucy that “Dorothy was inside me” so she knows something. Jennifer knows what’s going on. Sal knows about the kissing.
Jacob knows nothing and will probably assume it was with Joe.
Jacob has ALSO cheated, and with Joyce to boot, so he can keep his mouth shut forever about this.
And directly after the kiss he said, “We’ve crossed too many boundaries” and left her, because he knew it was wrong and expects better of himself.
Naw, he’s also got the option of “I learned my lesson about this from our stupid thing, why didn’t you?”
I’m not even sure what he was supposed to learn from their “cheating”. Other than to be more careful about being flirty with other girls while he’s in a relationship, but I don’t think he’s realized that yet.
You can argue he shouldn’t have kissed her, but otherwise, he was going to go break up with Raidah anyway. The cheating there changed nothing.
I think that was exactly it, honestly. I think he ended up getting a little bit of a “wait, I flew too close to the sun and ended up doing something actually wrong here” and has decided he needs to be more cautious about those boundaries.
I don’t really think we’ve seen any sign of it. He learned the lesson about having the wrong checklist, but I don’t think we’ve seen anything else.
I always like it when there’s a fresh group dynamic.
Maybe there’s another time it’s been this exact crowd and no one else, but I don’t think so.
Previously Walky was and Dorothy wasn’t and they walked off and left Jennifer.
There has not. There were five previous strips with all of these characters, but others were there as well. Most notably, Sarah was in all five of the previous strips, but not this one.
Fresh Group Dynamic will be the next teener band I expl-err manage.
for the love of anything holy please wear a scarf or something. I don’t care if you’re 75% hair
Some of us are immune to criticism. Some of us are immune to cold.
None of us are immune to sarcasm.
When your hair is big enough you don’t need scarves… up to about negative 10 Celsius. Past that point the big hair goes into a toque where it belongs.
I will do anything to avoid wearing a scarf, because I can’t tune out the sensation of something touching my face. I can’t even handle my own facial hair beyond the first millimeter. I would much rather let the -50°C touch my face, because it technically isn’t a thing that’s touching my face, it’s just cold. The rest of me can make enough warms for my silly little face.
I don’t do scarves because I hate having things wrapped around my neck. I’m wearing a mock turtleneck today, and even that’s on thin ice.
Why? The hair mostly insulates her, she’s otherwise wearing leather. I’m not sure what help a scarf would be here.
If her neck gets cold I’m sure Danny’s hands can help with that later
Hm. I realize after posting this that it can be read in one of two ways, and I want to be clear that one of them was not intentional.
I approve of you not explaining which is which.
it’s okay because if danny tried to choke sal he would break both his hands. she’s just built different
I am excited for this scene!
Also ff Joyce.
And Joe is still waiting for a continuation of y’all’s previous conversation, ya cheating harlot.
That’s the spirit.
If this was meant as parody…. ok :/.
Though that very harsh name calling could be kinder. But if not.
Wow!!!
No fucking happened until they both broke up.
Your *points to everything you said* is just more moving the goalpost.
p sure noone says harlot un-ironically anymore but Joyce also did very much cheat lol.
you don’t gotta have sex for it to count as cheating, like that’s actually a very insanely important distinction i need you to know and understand. making out with someone who isn’t your partner is still very much cheating
Hi! Me just popping in to remind everyone that it’s actually fine for people to have different definitions about what counts as cheating!
Personally, for me, it didn’t rise to the level of cheating. Not saying you can’t feel differently, but if I went around “correcting” everyone else’s view of cheating it’d get pushback and I think you can understand why. So maybe just… accept that people’s boundaries are all different.
Okay but generally speaking, like average social standing. Engaging in full physical intimacy is going to be considered cheating. Its doesn’t have to be. But that’s why in consideration to your partner you should have conversations with your partner about where they draw the line.
Everyone’s boundaries are going to be different but for relationships it’s better to err in the line of “rather safe than sorry” as the alternative is possibly unintentionally destroying your relationship entirely.
Okay, but consider why you’re assuming Archer and/or Nymph don’t know that and don’t already do that in their own personal lives…?
Because were specifically talking about it in the context to Joe and Joyce who didn’t have this conversation before everything went down
No one said anything about acher and nymphs personal lives. The “you” used in that comment was obviously a general you, not referring specifically to their lives.
Thx
I’m just really tired of every single time someone says “I don’t consider this cheating personally”, that being met with a mini-essay about how “you” need to make sure “you” are communicating and on the same time with “your” partners, often in defense of people with more “typical” senses of what is or isn’t cheating not needing to do any communicating about their expectations.
It’s a long-standing pattern in this argument, not just YourCousinJay today.
*page
In this case I think the fact that Joe actively pushed Joyce to do this, and Walky didn’t really take him and Dorothy that seriously, really blunts the criticism of this being cheating at all. Like, was it nice to do? No. Was it cheating? Again that really depends on your personal boundaries.
They didn’t know Joe nor Walky’s stance on the matter at the time and considering Walky’s last couple panels I don’t think he actually didn’t take it serious.
Hell even Joyce and Dot themselves consider what they did cheating so idk why there’d even be anything more to debate.
It wasn’t a debate, because at no point was I asking you to change you opinions or interested in changing mine. I don’t care what pretend people think, I was asking you (and others) to consider not jumping in to “correct” real life people who don’t have the same boundaries as you.
“Hi! Me just popping in to remind everyone that [b]it’s actually fine for people to have different definitions about what counts as cheating![/b]
Personally, for me, it didn’t rise to the level of cheating. [b]Not saying you can’t feel differently[/b], but if I went around “correcting” everyone else’s view of cheating [b]it’d get pushback and I think you can understand why.[/b] So maybe just… accept that [b]people’s boundaries are all different.[/b]”
Maybe it’ll help if you read it again. This time with emphasis on the important parts you seem to have missed. If you can point out where I was even slightly inviting debate (to change your mind about cheating) rather than just disagree with you, I’ll give you a gold star sticker.
Yeah, that would be the time I mess up the HTML, anyway I’m sure a re-read without emphasis will help just as much 💕
listen im just not finna argue about it.
im not the love police and if you clearly communicate with your partner you’re absolutely free to be as open or closed off with physical and emotion affection as you decide to be. Every couple decides for themselves what it means to breach the relationship and I’m not gonna fight that.
I’m literally just talking bout Joyce tho. Since that’s what kicked off the conversation. Someone labeling Joyce a cheater, which is a label she self-identifies with. To which Archer replied by saying it was moving the goalpost because they didn’t frickfrack until Joe and Joyce had broken up already.
You said:
“you don’t gotta have sex for it to count as cheating, like that’s actually a very insanely important distinction i need you to know and understand. making out with someone who isn’t your partner is still very much cheating”
Which isn’t anything to do with Joyce and everything to do with disagreeing with whats-his-face’s opinion on what rises to the level of cheating. That’s the part I took issue with and asking you to not continue doing.
No one was trying to argue with you, you just didn’t like being asked not to do something even though I phrased it very intentionally to not steamroll your opinions while having mine and whoever’s opinions steamrolled the whole time.
I did say that, but it’s not to be taken into full isolation lol. There’s context included by proxy of the existance of the comments I replied to within that chain.
I’m not trying to literally say this is how everyone has to do it (beyond having to communicate, all couples should have a healthy baseline of commmunication). I’m speaking specifically in context to Joyce and the prior comments which specifically refer to Joyce.
Okay. I understand that you feel what you said wasn’t a big deal. I feel like asking you (and others) to stop “correcting” people’s opinions was also not a big deal. I didn’t say you’re in the wrong for having that opinion and I’m not interested in discussing communication in relationships. I’m saying that was a real person with a real opinion and it’s fine that it deviates from your opinion and the cartoon’s opinion.
It’s clear that you are just going to keep being defensive about a thing I wasn’t trying to have an argument about so I hope you have a lovely night, but I’m done repeating myself ad nauseum to someone who isn’t interested in understanding.
Homie I was literally clarifying several times over I wasn’t talking about real people tho. I don’t get why you keep going in circles about this like you can only take my original comment in the most indipendant literal way possible fully removed from the actual context of the conversation.
And I’m not trying to be defensive, I’ve literally said several times at this point what you do and don’t consider cheating is entirely up to each individual couple’s own standards and personal boundries. We fully agree there. But that’s also not what I’m talking about which I’ve clarified several times now.
I don’t get how you’re somehow the one who’s tired of this. IM tired of this. Like be so forreal right now. I feel like I’m talking to the dicionary definition of semantics right now.
I’m not tired of it, I just can tell it’s not helping because you’re getting upset about a pretty base-level request, so I decided to stop arguing the point and let you know.
I’d appreciate you not continuing to say mean things since I wasn’t mean to you at any point. Thanks.
“you don’t gotta have sex for it to count as cheating, like that’s actually a very insanely important distinction i need you to know and understand. making out with someone who isn’t your partner is still very much cheating” does seem less specified to Joyce and more general. With that ton you’re throwing in there with “i need you to know and understand”? Which I don’t think was unreasonable, tbh, but it makes what you say after sound more prescriptive.
Now, with you clarifying what you meant, okay. But I can see how it was mildly objectionable wording (which I probably would have used in my initial phrasing too). And then the first follow-up didn’t address that, and seemed to make it more general rather than less.
my second comment didn’t clarify because I assumed the topic of the conversation hadn’t radically shifted away from the topic of Joyce who was the center focus up until that point
Okay final one before I go off to bed.
I think we’ve been having two different conversations and because of that, I was getting more frustrated over time, because while I understood your point I was in that instance only interested in the fictional relationships as it related to the prior two comments, and probably being too snarky for that to read clearly through my tone of writing.
Beyond that though, I did let my irritation of what felt like at that point, intentional miscommunication or misinterpretation of my words, get the better of me and in turn started name-calling which was rude of me.
Obviously, what is considered cheating is to each their own. I was never trying to debate that and I say that as someone who has been in several consentual, physically open relationships. My intentions were never to shame people who pursue those kinds of relationships or don’t consider physical intimacy such as kissing or more as cheating.
Anyhow gnight I got a holiday to celebrate tomorrow
Joe called it cheating in his own words, as did Joyce. Everyone relevant agrees it’s cheating so, it’s cheating
“Everyone relevant agrees it’s cheating so, it’s cheating”
Is absolutely an opinion you are welcome to have. It’s not a metric I personally use to define my personal views on what is or isn’t cheating.
Didnt you say yourself that it’s based on personal definition and boundaries? According to everyone’s boundaries its cheating. Joe renegotiated his boundaries but clearly there was still enough there for him to use the cheating word, even tho that’s something he has trauma around
I’m not trying to fight, honest. I’m just a little confused what the different is between this definition and the one you provided
So you’re equating pretend people with real people here a bit. I don’t care what the cartoons think, I genuinely don’t. I was telling (your boyfriend?) that it would be nice if real people didn’t constantly get “corrected” like there’s an absolute correct answer on this. When the truth is just that you feel your opinions about this strongly.
My personal definition and boundaries don’t include this act as cheating. Therefore, it is objectively fine for me to feel like the cartoons are incorrect and to discuss that. It’s also totally fine for you to feel like the cartoons are correct and to discuss that.
The problem comes in jumping on people who disagree with you by:
– mocking them for feeling this way on a “settled” issue
– treating them like they’re being a pain in the ass for disagreeing with you
– discussing your opinion like it’s a fact (and the way you arrived at that opinion like it’s science and not just more opinions about what matters)
Not saying you did all that. AM saying that happens all the time, so I (apparently foolishly) asked one person to let other people discuss and hold their own opinions. And that seems to have been a very silly request on my part.
This right here.
Nymph, your whole point is that it means different things to different people, right? ALL THE CHARACTERS INVOLVED called it cheating.
I explained. Right above your comment in fact! <3
I’ve decided to try explaining more concisely since this is so confusing for some reason:
People have their own definitions of what crosses the line into cheating. And that’s fine! You are entitled to your own decisions on that.
But so am I and so is everyone else.
Therefore, you and all the cartoons can believe that it was cheating, and I can (and do) disagree with that assessment. I can (and do) believe it wasn’t cheating.
Even if you all caps at me. Even if you feel really strongly about it. Even if a lot of people don’t agree.
All I was asking for (which apparently is crazy talk) is that people stop trying to “correct” an opinion that isn’t incorrect, it’s just different than yours.
okay wait, so quick clarification cuz the clearup somehow came across as more confusing to me.
– A is in a relationship with B.
– A kisses C.
– A & B both consider A kissing C as cheating.
Do you as a third party, not consider that A cheated on B with C?
Or are you saying, if you only saying that if you were in B’s shoes, you wouldn’t consider A kissing C as cheating.
As I said, YCJay, I’m not interested in talking to you about this any further.
aight, suit yourself. I just thought the wording was confusing so I asked for clarification
YourCousinJay, it really seems like you are just actively, willfully refusing to understand what Nymph is saying at this point. IDK, man.
Would delete that if I could, but if you’re genuinely confused just re-read what they said, repeatedly, about how they’re not talking about Joyce, and they were never talking about Joyce, and consider that when you said “generally speaking, like average social standing” and other things, it absolutely did seem to be you talking… generally… about average social standings… and not just about Joyce/Joe.
Bowing out now.
its 5am on my end of the world, I’ve been up since 10am. I don’t know Nymph’s exact stance, I assume it’s the latter, I haven’t heard of people who’d take the stance of the former before, but the exact wording in their comment was confusing so I simply asked for clarification because it peaked my interest.
It’s late, there’s a holiday to be celebrated tomorrow so I’ll probably go to bed in a moment but I’m also trying actively not to willfully misinterpret someone’s wording if I can help it. So if they could clear things up I’d appreciate that.
If not, that’s fine too.
“peaked my interest.” might be a weird word choice, more just got me curious
english is not my first language and it’s probably more noticable while im exhausted
Okay. Well, since you’re now asking me:
your question wasn’t relevant to the point Nymph was making.
The situation is a completely different one, where two people, who are not in a relationship with each other and do not know each other in real life, happened to have an exchange like this:
“Kissing isn’t cheating.”
“No, kissing is definitely cheating.”
It’s actually not clear that the first person was only talking about Joyce, and it’s not clear that the second person was only talking about Joyce, either.
So. Someone asked the second person to please not “correct” other people’s personal definitions of cheating.
also fwiw the word is “piqued”, because English sucks like that and keeps importing words from, like, French. 🙂
okay understood
also thx for the french lesson, genuinely didn’t know that.
(okay off to big nap now)
Thanks for saying it, Li. Apparently it makes more sense coming from a Danny avatar.
I think in this case it helped to hear from a fourth party, just pointing out that the two comments hadn’t been fully explicit on what they were talking about. I think, from what I’ve seen of Archer, that they definitely didn’t mean it wasn’t cheating by Joyce’s standards, but that’s context not everyone has.
And my LAST comment was like, the opposite of helpful, so I’m glad this one was better. 🙂 The last thing I wanted was to accidentally add more aggro here after you’d bowed out.
Yeah maybe that was it. I think it was something else that made your comment look like sense when I’d said almost the same shit over and over again, but I guess we’ll never really know. I still appreciate you sticking your neck out.
sob
Joyce and Joe both called it cheating so it was cheating. And Dotty. There, done. No stupid argument needed, if everyone involved AND everyone outside the situation who hears about it considers it cheating it’s cheating.
The real torment nexus was this endless fucking relitigation hahaha….
Hah.
I feel like that should end the argument. Doesn’t matter what your personal boundaries are, all relevant characters agree it was cheating. Joe’s chill with it (or at least pretending to be) but he explicitly said “you cheated on your boyfriend [Idfr the rest of the quote but it was about them being on the front page]”. It’s canonically considered cheating. Discussion over.
If it bothers you to discuss it… you’re super free to just stop discussing it. Like, no one made you jump in on this?
Eh, I’m gonna step in when my boyfriends involved. I’m mildly annoyed by this argument, not like, upset
Fair enough!
I like to think Joe still hasn’t moved from that spot in his room. He’s still there waiting and staring. Danny occasionally stops by to water and feed him.
If…
It…
Takes forever…
I will wait for you…
“Joyce is not going to be normal about this” Is not exactly an unlikely prophecy to be fair.
Joyce not being normal is “normal” for her.
Yes she did!:D
And it was world-shattering… the best kind of shattering! 😛
Please, Please someone introduce Joyce to the “I just had sex” song, she’ll be humming it all day long.
getting deeply obsessed with a 15+ year old comedy song that everybody was sick of at least 10 years ago, would be one of the most Joyce-coded things ever
I made it my life’s goal to blast that song after my first time.
That was much more reasonable when I was like 19 😛
yusss it’s finally happening, monday morning math squad (minus Joe, Sarah & Walky)
Score one for Jennifer Billingsworth.
Even a broken clock and all that
Wait shit I hadn’t heard the alt-text yet
“Joyce is gonna be really weird about it once she starts having sex” is the lowest-stakes bet of all time.
A wins a win and my girl has been eating pure Ls lately
Odds so bad that when you win, you pay the bookie.
At least I’m not the only one who’s imagining Joyce playing the Lonely Island song “I Just Had Sex” as she saunters up to her friends.
Interesting how Jacob said Sal is 70% hair, considering her first incarnation in “Roomies” and the first half of “It’s Walky” had hair so poofy that it looked straight out of an 80s rock music video. Dumbingverse Sal’s hair is practically FLAT compared to early Walkyverse Sal.
I was kinda hoping that moment of introspection about her sexuality Joyce had a few strips ago would extend to some introspection about how badly she’s behaved towards other characters since she got together with Dorothy. But I guess I was wrong.
“I fucked!”
Yea, you fucked up half of your friends group. And the worst part is this was figuratively.
If it’s not law that people should declare “I fucked!” within 24 hours after said fuck event, then by golly why not?
feels like a farnsworth moment
“good news everyone, I had coitus”
So, will any of the people here be like “Yeah, you fucked…up”?
Fun fact: a polar bear’s hair is so effective at insulation they’re basically invisible in infrared.
Jacob’s right sal does have that Eda hair, she’s probably hiding a bag of chips or two in there
Looks like everybody knows, since billifer told them Joyce would be weird and why.
Well, we saw both Jennifer and Lucy learn about the sex, and we saw Sal see Joyce and Dorothy together… so, if Lucy told Jacob, which would make sense, yeah, everyone here is in the loop.
There may be specific details that some of them are not in the loop about, though.
Good for you, Joyce…
Bitter? Me?!!
Needs more booty dancing:
https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=300
yeah, nice
Honestly, excitedly telling your friends you had sex for the first time *is* pretty normal all things considered
Don’t get me wrong, she still won’t be normal about it, but
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2024/comic/book-15/01-love-dares-you-to-change/touched-2/
Just came across this comic again, which just further goes to show what i was saying
So what did you guys get on your Spotify wrapped/YouTube music recap/whatever? My number one artist was Jamie Paige (as you can probably tell from that one autistic rant a week ago) and my top song was Igaku by Sasuke Haraguchi with teto. So, yeah I basically got goated taste
I listen to a lot of persona/Shin Megami Tensei music so my top artists was kind of polluted by “Atlus Sound Team” which is a catch all they use on there, but otherwise my top artists were the Mountain Goats, They Might Be Giants, Pete Seeger, and the Oh Hellos. I recognize that makes me seem like I only listen to folk music so I would like to say that new wave and citypop were big genres for me as well, and my top song was Space Age Love Song by Flock of Seagulls.
Mountain goats enjoyed spotted 👁️👁️
That’s a really fun mix you got there. I haven’t listened to like, a ton of mountain goats broadly speaking, but I’ve listened to a few of their songs an obsessive amount. The obvious No Children (I want “hand in unlovable hand” tattooed) and Old College Try but also This Year goes so insanely hard oml. Sometimes you just gotta belt out the words “I AM GONNA MAKE IT THROUGH THIS YEAR IF IT KILLS ME” to yourself y’know?
My main folk source is Jason Webley (yes I grew up on Welcome to Night Vale), who was number 5 in my most streamed albums this year lol. Sometimes you just gonna stream one singular artist that you’re obsessed with but forgot to listen to for a while for a whole day or three, get them in your algorithm
My #1 artist was BBNO$ and my top song was inner ninja.
Infant no currency wasn’t a surprise to me but seeinf inner ninja as my top song sirprised me as I only listen to it when I play Shen in League of Legends BUT when I do I do losten to it on repeat
I got a short intro noise and then booted back to the Home tab.
Come to think of it, maybe that’s because I don’t use YouTube Music specifically.
If I had to guess though, my most-listened artists this year are probably The Pine, Mad Honey, Bathe Alone, Old Gods of Asgard (I have not played Alan Wake, and Caramell.
The rest of my top 5 (low-key kinda fucked bc Spotify struggles with vocaloid)
Two Door Cinema Club (they will never not be in my top 5 ig, i think they were my whole top 5 songs last year)
Sasuke Haraguchi (teto producer)
PUP
Kasane Teto
So basically 3/5 Teto. 4 of my top 5 tracks were teto with a single Miku song that snuck in bc kikuo is one of the best prods to ever do it. Other highlights include 100gecs, Jason Webley, Kendrick Lamar GNX, VocaloKat (trans women make the best vocaloid music I swear to God), Flavor Foley, Yuma covers of popular vocaloid songs bc that is an underrated voice bank right there, some indie rock, a little big of creepynuts leftover from last years hyper fixation, and songs off the oshi no Ko sound track
I only started listening to vocaloid and teto literally new years eve last year btw, this is exactly 11 months and some change of concentrated hyper fixation
I don’t do Spotify, and only sort of do YouTube.
Music I like gets (or already has been) downloaded and put in my local library. I have songs (mostly mp3s, with a few midi tunes and other formats) going back to the early 90s, which I listen to primarily via Winamp.
I am old.
Hah, I was mocking my teenager today because her spotify wrapped told her she’d listened to 1100 different songs and I gleefully pointed out I have something like 4x that many on my One Big MP3 Playlist.
(my concession to modernity is running a small Plex server and Plexamp on my phone)
As opposed all the nothing ever she’s been normal about before… 🙂
I just realized I had also forgotten about Joe as much as uh…everybody…in the comic seems to have.
Joe? You mean Joe Rosenthal?
Terrible what happened to him. They say his ghost still haunts this place, all these years later…
Z”L
RIP Joe, eaten by an allosaurus
It’s how Dina would’ve wanted him to go. Just to have a live Allosaurus running around. Sacrifices for the greater dinosaur.
Taking a look at the Joe tags for when he last saw Joyce:
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2025/comic/book-16/01-not-so-smooth-criminals/everyones/
I am very curious about when that the topic of that promise will next be touched on in a strip with Joyce in it.
Remember when people were complaining about Joyce leaving him hanging? And then other people said “have some patience, the newspaper thing is REALLY urgent…”
And so is Hank showing up…
And so is them having sex for the first time…
And so was Joyce scrambling to tell Lucy Dorothy was “inside her” (a normal thing you tell your acquaintances)…
And so was Joyce buying ice cream…
And so was Joyce and Dorothy doing laundry (not a euphemism)
And so was J&D needing to set Asma up on a bowling date…
And so was a good night’s sleep…
And so was going for a run to the clothes store…
I’m being patient folks but I’m getting a slight inkling that Joyce doesn’t give much of a fuck about this dude
From the in-universe timeframe, something *will* happen on Tuesday when they have to do science class together. In IRL terms, this Monday is probably going to last 3 months, like Sunday did.
Let’s hope Joe can survive this long . . .