Yeah, Walky gets it! And finally, maybe Joyce will realise that he’s right, and she IS being an incredibly bad winner. And that she can be with Dots without rubbing everyone elses’ noses in it. Figuratively speaking, of course.
But no literal rubbing of noses in it either, I hope. xD
In this scene, the Straights seem to be doing pretty good on the whole. Walky’s venting, but Sal’s fully happy, and Jacob and Lucy are all lovey-dovey still.
What have they got, at the end of the day, what have they got to take away? A bottle of whisky and a new set of lies, blinds on the windows, and a pain behind the eyes.
all I can think about is Walky’s short lived super hero career ending due to his lack of fitness. I don’t think the softboi has it in him to not just sound angy.
I think Walky could definitely have revved up into being committed to Lucy but the “I love you” thing killed any chance of that stone dead, it freaked him out way too much.
yeah; he had JUST gotten over a messy breakup with Dorothy, and then couldn’t commit. And Lucy was moving way too fast for him, but he was too afraid to make that clear for her.
I still think Dorothy and Walky hooking back up was the least healthy thing for both of them to do. Especially in Walky’s case; he has a lot of growing he needs to do before jumpin into bed with someone again lol
Nah Lucy is way too reserved and boring to be like Joyce now, which is why I disliked her but ironically her saving grace now. She got laid with Jacob yet didn’t go up to everyone yelling “I HAD JACOB INSIDE ME”. I’d rather hang out with Lucy and that’s saying a LOT
Yesterday on the patreon I asked what Joyce really expected Walky’s reaction here to be, and having had time to think about it I think I can hazard a guess at a real answer.
Here we see Joyce occupying essentially the same frame of mind as Walky was seeming to a little while ago: that in spite of their often-vitriolic sniping at each other, they are fundamentally friends. Joyce is now fully-cognizant of the fact that a great deal of her bickering with Walky was in fact a sublimated competition for Dorothy’s attention and affection. Previously, Walky had come out on top, but now Joyce has won! (As she always should have, of course!) There shouldn’t be any bad blood about that, right? It’s just like when he got together with Dorothy and she started spending less time with Joyce, right? To Joyce, there’s nothing different about this as compared to their previous jockeying for Dorothy’s love, except that she’s won this time. No hard feelings, right?
Except, no. No, there are hard feelings. Once again Joyce has run roughshod over another person’s relationship in order to get what she wants. She didn’t even let Dorothy break up with Walky – she ran in, grabbed her, and laughed in Walky’s face. And Walky is supposed to just be okay with that? What, because he made some jokes about how Joyce transparently wanted to much his girlfriend’s carpet? No! This is not the same as their previous bickering. Joyce has been an eager participant in doing Walky wrong and causing him real, genuine emotional harm. And while Walky had previously still been willing to call her a friend, maybe seeing her here, STILL gloating at him, has made him consider that, hey, no, this is bullshit, I don’t have to take this. Joyce still thinks they’re bickering buddies, but that’s not what this is anymore. She has fucked her relationship with Walky, her friend, and unless she pulls her head the hell out of her ass that damage is going to be irreparable. And in the bargain, now everyone in the friend group has to deal with how insufferable she is now. She has broken everything, as Walky says.
My first impression when I was reading today’s strip was that honestly I expected a stronger reaction from Walky. He comes across more as annoyed than angry.
But then I realized that Walky is kind of a Master of avoiding uncomfortable emotional confrontation, so actually processing his emotions into mild snark and sarcasm is pretty in line.
And part of that I think has to do with the fact that he has very little confidence in himself, so even when someone is an asshole to him, he still thinks “yeah I deserved this”.
Joyce called Walky family before, back when Becky first arrived, saying she would have to put up with him while hiding in Joyce’s dorm room.
As for Walky, well his best, oldest, and possibly only friend for the longest time, is Jennifer, so if you go by the antagonism is that relationship, I think it’s a safe bet that Walky considers Joyce a friend.
At the very least, he saw her as part of the friend group, and that includes Sarah who is probably the one who likes Walky the least in the group (she repeatedly thought about Joe’s feelings regarding the cheating and never once mentioned Walky, if we want to take that as a measurement of close she feels toward him).
Side note: anyone remember how Joyce (and Sal, to a lesser extent, but let’s focus on Joyce) got righteous indignant with Walky over finding out he quickly got with Amber after being dumped by Dorothy (despite Joyce wanting to hook Walky up with Amber)?
Do you think she’ll remember and/or that it will come up in the near future?
You know I’ve been wondering why Joyce’s needling of Walky feels more “real” post-protest than their bickering in the past and I think this is exactly. Joyce has crossed a line and is too wrapped up in their real-fake-real competition to notice. I think the real Walky crashout isn’t gonna happen until Dorothy tries to “no hard feelings” him for her own sake.
I would actually look forward to Walky’s crashout being when Dorothy tries her luck in a conversation with him. Now given prior history with how much avoidance Dorothy showed with Danny in their breakup–Dorothy either will avoid Walky like the plague, or has so little respect for him that she’ll open with a joke and some gaslighting. As a treat.
This. I believe Dorothy “cares” about Walky, but that has at no point ever translated into respect, which is a different thing entirely. And I wonder if Walky will be able to tell the difference.
I’m really hoping that more of Joyce’s friend group does what Walky is doing here. She apparently needs to actually be told by more people that her behavior lately has been terrible, since she doesn’t seem to be very willing to think about how she’s treated others on her own.
per the alt text, they’ve been downgraded to “allies”.
I suspect there may be further downgrades, particularly if any of them clearly side with Walky over her.
This isn’t hate, but it is a potentially controversial question: does Sal even really *like* her brother?
I’m being genuine, I don’t remember the archives too well. I keep seeing people say ‘sal should stand up for walky’ and i’m always like ‘but would she?’ Because again; i’ve the prainpower of a root vegetable and I don’t remember
I don’t think Sal ever DISLIKED Walky, he was just living in (probably willing) denial of the reality of the worlds they lived in and their dynamics with their parents. But Walky has shown himself learning, understanding, and even standing up to their parents. And Walky seems to like Sal just fine, even if they are almost entirely-different people. At the very least they clearly love each other, and they’ve been steadily closer since starting college.
I think that Sal and Walky have sibling cordiality, and shared experiences, but really only started getting a little closer when Walky told off their parents for how they treated Sal.
I think people have more expectations of Sal than should apply here. I loved my older brother when he was alive but I didn’t give a shit about his love life. It wasn’t my business. Unless Joyce is a direct threat to Walky this whole thing is entirely his mess to engage with. If he wants Sal’s help he’ll ask for it.
Yeah, part of being a good sibling is knowing when you’re needed. Sal is going to assume Walky can take care of himself here until and unless he asks her for support.
Though it wouldn’t surprise me if she checks in with him sometime later today to ask how he’s doing.
It’s more the golden child vs the scapegoat dynamic. The siblings are hopefully trying to heal from that now that they’re both aware of their parent’s toxic patterns. It’ll take time to break those habits and generational trauma.
When Walky’s hair suddenly made him “hot”, Sal told the math group to not let him know, as he’d only recently started to become decent and knowing he’s “hot” would be too much power for him to control appropriately based on his lack of experience being so.
Somewhat short answer: Sal thinks Walky is becoming a decent person and/or brother and does not want to hinder his growth towards that.
I got the impression that the siblings had little contact during the years Sal was sent away to boarding school, but I don’t recall if blame for that was given. Walky seems to feel a great deal of guilt around that whole situation, but dunno how much agency he had to help or contact her. He’s been making gestures to try and be a better brother to her since they started college, though. Punching Asher, attempting to rebuke mom’s racism, etc.
I’m glad walky’s Finally calling joyce on her shit holy fuck. Joyce has become so unlikable for me this arc. Please don’t let them move on after this. Keep up the pressure on her.
Yea, while I hated the cheating I would have gotten over it because they are young, but with everything that has happened after I dont know if Ill ever stop disliking Joyce now. Shes been just so crappy to multiple people and she doesnt seem to care.
He’s still being remarkably nice by not telling everyone exactly how Joyce was a sore winner to him. In any other media the cheating spouses other SO would be a straight up villian for laughing in the face of the person who got cheated on then dumped.
But Joyce’s reaction appears to show she’s unaffected. It probably won’t be until Joe that something occurs to her. What class do they take again? Dina… *and* Becky also share that one… don’t they?
Anyway, she’s being stupid again about sexuality but it wasn’t as obnoxious this time so yay.
I really feel like Joyce has some sort of lack of shame object permanence. If there’s a term for that please share. She just doesn’t have the capacity to think about anyone she’s hurt unless they’re staring directly at her.
I think Walky is the exception. She doesn’t like Walky and I’d even be bold enough to say they aren’t friends. But she also seemed pretty obnoxious around Raidah too, maybe Raidah is also an exception because she’s an enemy, or maybe Joyce is just horrible. I think if Becky or Joe were here she actually would feel guilty.
She called Walky family before.
They hang out together aside from shared classes.
They’ve given each other advice on somewhat weighty subjects.
They are friends.
That said, if people can be friends and not like each other, I wouldn’t be surprised if they claimed that.
Though that’s mostly Joyce; Walky’s best and oldest friend is Jennifer, so he might consider that kind of friendship as deep affection.
I heavily dispute most of this. Sure they may consider themselves family but that’s different to me from friends. They don’t often elect to spend time together if ever. Just diving the archives and the times they’re together which is often, is in situations like this, they’re either going to the same place or with someone else in their shared friend group. Jennifer, Dorothy, Sal, ect.
I know what the comic tries to present but I really disagree with the narrative you can treat people like shit and then say “we’re friends.” and that is acceptable. Becky has this problem with Dorothy, Mike had this problem, and Joyce and Walky do too. I consider their relationship closer to Sal and Malaya’s than being friends.
The only source of shame Joyce respects is her own hang ups. Other people don’t seem to count, even when the thing the gets hung up on is hwo she expects them to act.
It gets in my craw the way Joyce is talking about Dorothy in such an objectifying way — like she’s some prized treasure that Joyce won off of Walky, and not a person with any sort of romantic autonomy. I know this is the Big Romantic OTP Endgame Supership or whatever, but Joyce has a bad habit of dehumanizing Dorothy through pedestaling her and treating her like some kind of Glorious Untouchable Demigoddess at the drop of a hat, which is why I’ve always been leery of the two as a couple; it’s deeply unhealthy, and not in an elevated “drama hurricane” why like Jennifer’s relationships often are but in a terribly mundane, unpleasant to watch way.
Romanticization is not the same as romance, and until Joyce knocks that shit off, Willis is never going to get me to buy in on this ship as Glorious Wedding Bells Endgame, end of.
(And not to be a salty shipper on main, but I would like to point out that part of Joyce and Joe’s chemistry was that they did, in fact, see each other as people, and were far too familiar with each other’s flaws to romanticize the other. Well, Joe did a bit of romanticizing, but he’s also one of the ones who most consistently called Joyce out on her shit, and she very much called him out on his.)
I have my doubts about the stability of their relationship. I think we’ve already seen a pretty big gap between Joyce and Dorothy with how they feel about cheating. Joyce feels entitled too it while Dorothy feels guilty.
It kind of seems to me like Joyce consistently is encouraging Dorothy to not worry about being a good person because she is already perfect. But fundamentally I don’t think that is Dorothy’s style. She doesn’t work to be good because of insecurity, but because she is actually passionate and ambitious.
She’s been through a lot of trauma and had her worldview shaken up, but I don’t think the result is that she gives up on trying to change the world. She might not become president but she sure as heck can still devote herself to making meaningful social change in other ways.
Precisely because of that detail, I’ll continue to give Dorothy the benefit of the doubt, yes, with neutrality.
And she should also apologize to Walky.
NOTE: I’m not saying they should get back together. Yes, it was a ship I loved and that could have gone further. But putting them together wouldn’t feel right for either of them.
Honestly I’m kind of wondering if Joyce and Dorothy are meant to be a long-term thing at all. It’s not sustainable without a lot of growth on Joyce’s part at least, and probably some on Dorothy’s as well. At the very least I expect there to be some rockiness between the two of them soon.
It would be a nice twist if Joyce does start to feel board in her relationship with Dorothy after she stops seeing her as an unobtainable goal, so much of her idea of romance revolves around wanting something she can’t have.
Yeah this is for sure gonna be a problem for them down the line. Every single relationship Dorothy has had has involved some degree of idolizing her. She goes back and forth between trying to avoid it (1st Walky breakup) and using it as a crutch (attempt to rekindle with Walky). I’m curious how she’ll react when she realizes Joyce is using her Dorothy pedestal to justify how she’s treating everyone else.
I also can’t see what is so great about this romance. Willis seems to think this ship with their selfi insert character is super cute, but it hasn’t been.
I’m very glad someone besides Sarah (and I guess Raidah) finally vocalized how poorly Joyce has been behaving in these past several months/two days.
Sadly that person is Walky so I fully doubt she’ll take it very serious. But atleast more people are actually telling her she messed up rather than brushing off what happened.
I wish we could have gotten more than 2 panels of this rather than pivoting to this identity discussion.
Because even when I was 18, I think I had the wherewithall to realize that trying to tell someone how to self-identify is a sucker’s game. That Sal, Lucy, and Jacob, all people who are supposed to be at least relatively socially adroit, feel the need to try and correct Joyce on this is strange to me.
If I had a nickel for every time in this arc I wish Willis went for Doylism over Watsonism, I’d have 2 nickels. Which isn’t a lot, but it’s weird that it happened twice, right?
Lucy has always been willing to correct other people about social categories.
And it’s a good call back because she remembers she tagged her as a lesbian white version of herself at meeting. ( Does she remember that the next line was stay away from Jacob ? )
Everyone else here has Also always corrected ( cult raises) her bout social categories and probably sees it that way.
Joyce is correct in that for once she has more experience. But not enough to see she is bi
S’more than half of the comments on today’s strip so far in this thread, so I don’t know why it’s viewed as some sort of punishment to be “contained” by it, honestly. If I could participate wholeheartedly in this part of the comment section, I would be much happier leaving comments right now.
You’re not the majority of the readership, but you’re absolutely the majority of the active commenters right now, and it’s likely to only keep skewing that way for the foreseeable future, so.
I wouldn’t worry about the vanishingly few folks who actually bother complaining. They get drowned out real fast, heh.
IMO and FWIW, my perception and recollection is that back when Joyce and Dorothy first and finally got together “for real”, the ratio was much more in the other direction: lots more readers reacting positively, while others expressed unhappiness with this or that aspect of how it was handled. However, as this storyline has dragged continued on (and on, and on) for weeks, and (per Throwatron’s recent comments) will likely, due to the pacing of updates, continue to do so for months of real time, that has changed. I expect it will continue to be thus until and unless the content to which people are reacting again changes significantly.
I’m genuinely sorry and sympathetic that something which used to bring you pleasure apparently no longer does. I wish it had not come to this.
I will feel a whole lot better about things if Joyce doubles down in her ”I did nothing wrong, I’m great and heroic!”, and the blowback is as big as she deserves.
If they all just walk meekly to class together, because this is just ”Joyce being Joyce” I’ll be even more frustrated.
I have seen the comparison between how Walky and Joyce treated eachother in the past, with Walky ripping on Joyce for obviously having feelings for Dorothy, and that being seen as a reason for her treating him like she is doing now.
Look at that situation for a while. We have a friend group, where one of the friends is pining for the partner of another person in that friend group. That in itself would lend itself to something being uncomfortable in that group. Now, Walky did not really handle it well, opting for sarcastic sniping when the mature thing would probably be to have a real talk about it. But I think that his sniping comes from that place of discomfort.
And Joyce, once she and Dorothy forms a romantic relationship, going “I win” and literally laughing in his face shows that he was right to be uncomfortable towards that situation.
I get it though, feelings are tricky, and relationships more so. The heart wants what it wants. But this also feels like Joyce is using that relationship to get back at Walky, which is a strange thing to do in a new relationship with someone one loves.
Tl;dr – Joyce should just take the W and not rub it in Walky’s face.
Though, if she did that, there would be less drama, and I do like me some drama.
It is a little funny how she was claiming she was “Heroically Gay” considering that in practice the only obstacle gayness presented to her getting together with Dorothy where her own internalized self-perceptions.
Which, to be fair, undoubtedly were instilled into her by a homophobic, heteronormative society… but I also think it is worth recognizing that not every gay person experiences the same amount of opposition.
Well I can’t speak for everyone but many people have been reading this for literally a decade or more so it’s partly force of habit and partly hoping that the story will FINALLY take a turn for the better, and they complain because it’s a forum and that’s kind of human nature when a story you’re super invested in goes downhill
Still love Joyce, but she pretty much had that coming from Walky. The idolizing and idealizing of “real” gay people in panel three is pretty unhealthy. And for some reason, the line “You’re just a bunch of straights and Jennifer!” is absolutely hilarious. It’s like she respects that Jennifer doesn’t identify as gay or bi, but she can’t possibly call her straight.
It’s unhealthy to lionize peple just for being gay, of course, but we all realize who she’s talking about, here, right? Not herself, not even Dorothy… but Becky, whom she still idolizes.
Just a little note for everyone insisting that she’s forgotten her best friend.
Joyce had this goal of getting a fairytale romance and losing her virginity to the person she would marry. That person would be ambitious, brave, and strong in their convictions, and be successful while Joyce would become a doting housewife. Dorothy pretty much checks all the boxes that Joyce had on her checklist, so now she’s pretty much announcing to the world that she found her soulmate and it’s only going to be a matter of time before she’s Mrs. Dorothy Keener…
However…
1. Dorothy has been a neurotic mess ever since Blaine destroyed her plan of escape when he and Ross kidnapped her, Joyce, and half the characters of this strip.
2. She LOATHES Joe and Joyce promised him a talk about their relationship but hasn’t seen him since the beginning of yesterday, so there’s no doubt this little oversight will come back to haunt all three characters.
3. Joyce has been so obnoxious to everyone, ESPECIALLY Walky, that she risks alienating herself from all her friends. Sarah in particular, who has always had her back in the past (albiet begrudgingly) can’t stand her right now, and let’s not even talk about poor Becky and Dina…
In summation- Joyce probably has her First Dance Wedding Song as “Wind Beneath My Wings,” while Walky, Sarah, and the others are requesting she and Dorothy dance to Lady Gaga’s “Bad Romance.” (Or “Judas.”)
Wow pushback from someone other than Sarah? Actual narrative consequences (in the sense that drama is built on conflict) for Joyce’s impulsive actions? Did I wake up in a parallel universe where Willis DIDN’T write the most milquetoast cheating storyline of all times? But will it actually stick or will it go back to not mattering in the slightest? We’ll continue to keep you informed as this story develops.
Joyce, yer not a genuine gay person. Just a part-time Dorothy-gay person. Don’t listen to them straights there. Go talk to a real life genuine gay. Like Becky. Or Ethan. I’m certain those conversations will be great and light and happy!
I’m glad Walky is atleast standing up for himself instead of ignoring his feelings again. Like this is a shitty situation but by all means this is progess to being more honest about his feelings to others which is a lot better to how he was coping with stuff like this in the past.
She knows Dotty is also ‘not gay’ by her definition, here–she’s had twice as many male lovers as she’s had women.
And she doesn’t consider herself straight. And she even accepts that Jennifer is in some category other than ‘gay’ or ‘straight’.
So who is left? Who could she be talking about when she is discussing what amazing warriors for the Light gays are?
Ethan. Becky.
Now, those two probably wouldn’t want this sort of adulation. But it’s pretty clear here she is actually recognizing her own privilege–she doesn’t feel like she’s ~earned~ the right to be called ‘gay’, because all the folks she considers ‘really gay’ have had to claw and fight and scrap for every bit of happiness they’ve gotten.
She has self-awareness. She just fucks up the expression of it.
Dorothy has had 3x as many male lovers as women.
We don’t know the name of the person, and she didn’t go into detail, but she casually mentioned (prior to the time skip) having to be the more experienced person than her lovers 3 different times, so she was apparently with someone before Danny (unless she broke up with Danny, slept with the other person, then got back with Danny).
I understand your confusion, Walky, but Joyce isn’t actually asking a question here. She’s merely wanting to be assured that no one’s upset at here.
Not that anyone would be! Because she’s done nothing wrong. Absolutely nothing she might have to feel the slightest bit guilty about.
And even if she had, being in True Love justifies anything!
Got it? Good. Glad that’s all settled, and she doesn’t have to think about it any more.
Note presence of two other females that Joyce has expressed physical interest in (Sal – hair; Jennifer – breasts) (and one other male that Joyce has expressed physical interest in (Jacob)).
Was there anyone else? I don’t think so, but memory is like a whatchacallit.
As deathcringe as this strip is, I gotta say, I feel the imposter syndrome part at least. I’ve legally changed my name and 90% of the people I interact with daily are in on the fact that I’m trans and queer but I still find myself thinking “well I’m not able to medically transition yet so I’m basically closeted and living as cishet”.
One of these days I’m gonna just be this old dude all post-GRS and be like well I don’t have a trans symbol sticker on my postapocalyptic cybernetic organs so like, I’m still basically closeted right.
Mhm, it resonates with me as well. I had bottom surgery 8 years ago and I still sometimes find my inner voice saying that I somehow tricked myself into mistakingly thinking I’m trans, but that I’m not actually trans like real trans people.
Folks, I’m surprised no one has considered the following scenario: Joyce hasn’t officially broken up with Joe yet, and I suspect she wants to have a foot in both camps (not equally, obviously). So, I think she’ll end up proposing a romantic threesome, which obviously the others aren’t interested in: Dorothy will want an exclusive relationship, while Joe will realize it will never work.
That’s way too much open vulnerability for Joyce. I think she’s bending over backwards to convince herself she didn’t actually do anything wrong cheating because a part of her wants to keep seeing Joe without Dorothy’s knowledge. Or worse, she’s gonna try to fuck him to prove she’s still kinda straight.
I don’t think the latter scenario will happen. She’s too caught up in her queerness, becoming a fundamentalist in that sense, just as she was as a Christian. I’m sorry if I draw the ire of her fans, but that’s exactly the definition of Karen, regardless of her stance.
It’s not that he’s interested; he claims he’d tolerate the situation because he doesn’t want to break off the relationship with Joyce despite the preconditions. The feasibility of it is another matter entirely.
I think Joyce considered this until she had sex with Dorothy. Joyce has pretty much become laser-focused on Dotty. She literally does not care about ANYONE ELSE, and this is causing her friendships to fracture. To her, Joe doesn’t exist now. There’s just Dorothy and the speedrun to the alter so Joyce can get that MRS degree she always wanted, damn the consequences. True Love Conquers All and stuff.
I’m really hoping that this runaway train of lust and pride finally gets derailed by Joe wanting to finally sit down and talk with Joyce, and for Dorothy to find out that Joyce never actually broke up with him, just put him out of her head for the weekend.
One one hand I can appreciate the experience of feeling like “I shouldn’t claim that Identity, that would be appropriative”. There is a mindset difference between thinking “them” to thinking “us”.
But a big part of it is recognizing that Queerness is not defined by “being the same as all other queer people”. So yeah, Joyce might look at people like Becky and think “I haven’t gone through what people like Becky have gone through. My experience wasn’t like hers. I don’t relate to my sexuality like she does” but fundamentally there is no quintessential queer experiences because there is no single, limited way of being queer.
Yo. Jennifer…..Now is your chance. Ditch these losers, maybe go see what Asma is up to, get ya girl Alice involved. Let’s get that shit going. This group has a expiration date. It will be ashes by next spring. You, Raidah, Alice, Asma. We can make this work. Reboot this whole comic.
FINALLY!! Took so long for Walky to get a chance to say this. The wait for anyone other than Billie (looking at you Sal) to have his back, though, continues. And, hell, even Billie took it pretty easy on Dorothy relative to what we know she has in her.
Also, not that long ago Joyce had that epiphany that changing Jocelyne’s contact name in her phone from “Dumb [Sibling]” just because Jocelyne was trans might be more transphobic than keeping it. How’d we get from that to the “perfect warrior demigods” dumbness?
And Joyce thinking this much of gay people, wonder if that comes from how much she loves Becky?
And yes! Lucy for the win!
Jacob should have known. There’s a whole arc were Joyce wanted to be his girlfriend. Come on dude, use the “b” word, it’s not going to hurt you. 😜
Given that IIRC Willis was going to initially have Joyce and Dorothy kiss and then conclude they couldn’t be together for now, I’m wondering if this is going to end up an extended version of this where the relationship ends up torpedoed in the short term before rebuilding into something healthier later on.
I’m not basing this off anything in particular; the preview panels we’ve seen seem to imply that the two are still a couple well into next year if I recall but I also seem to recall that Willis isn’t above editing a panel to avoid spoilers. Also, Joyce is being super unpleasant about this whole thing and so I can assume the intended implication is that Joyce isn’t handling this in a healthy fashion.
Never, because it’s not true, she’s only ever and always been in True Love with Dorothy.
(And who wouldn’t be? because Dorothy is amazing and perfect in every way.)
… I’m actually starting to feel good about the comic again, mostly because I’m looking forward to Joyce’s head-on collision(s) with Reality.
Totally going to run into that reality that there have been others. At the least she is bisexual. At most a lesbian. Sal is definitely one she has crushed on, even tho she didn’t realize it as that.
Joyce has this conservative Christian attitude to change. She acts all high and mighty, like “I’ve made this important life discovery, I’m one of you now, pay attention to me”, and is completely oblivious to the collateral damage she causes.
And now here she is, running a victory lap in front of the boy who got dumped for her.
He’s had his heart broken for the second time in a week and she’s holding her hand out and saying “good game.”
Huh. I’m actually clapping for Walky. How about that.
I never really liked that Walky ran right back to Dorothy within minutes of being dumped by Lucy, or that he stuck with Dorothy when she described the relationship as something that has no consequences. Joyce literally yoinking Dotty away from Walky, declaring that she “won,” and laughing in his face about it, THEN reiterating that she won Dotty and had sex with her is the very definition of “sore winner.” Much as I hate to admit it, I’d be pissed at Joyce too and reject her “peace offering,” which is just a humble-brag in disguise.
Also, kudos on Lucy to finally tell Joyce that she’s bi. Too bad it’s fallen on deaf ears as Joyce has basically become the worst version of herself and believes everyone that calls her out on it is just jealous that they lost (Walky) or homophobic (Asma.) But of course, Joyce being Joyce, she’s not REALLY gay if she only had sex with one woman… but she’s proud to be not “straight,” and she pretends “bisexual” doesn’t exist… so what is she?
Is there anyone can stop this raging lust-monster that Dorothy unleashed? At this point I don’t think Dotty herself would be able to put this fire out.
I confess that I always got the feeling that Walky never truly loved Lucy, not in the way he loved Dorothy and Amber. (She definitely loved Walky though, I should clarify!) Lucy was good for him, he was comfortable with her, but he didn’t LOVE her. If they had gotten together, I feel it would have been one of those relationships where “we learn to love each other”. That kind of relationship can work, but it also runs the risk of fatigue or burnout in the long run because Walky would always feel like there’s “something missing”, and on Lucy’s side, she’ll eventually realize that Walky’s feelings for her are not as strong as hers for him, which can lead to disappointment or bitterness.
I think Lucy/Walky was probably doomed by their religious differences (and how Walky felt about that,) but he can still be bummed at the missed opportunity. He definitely put Lucy on a bit of a pedestal, even if he wasn’t ready for love conversations.
Leslie could try explaining demisexuals but Joyce’s feelings for Jennifer’s bossoms and a few other things mean that she MIGHT just be another category of queer other than Dorothysexual.
And Becky needs to understand that once you’re someone’s sibling in the head, you’ll never be attracted to them. The Soviets had a study about that.
There was a group of ancient Greek warriors called the Sacred Band who were all gay, and they were so ferocious that the Spartans feared them. Every warrior had a partner, and they were always lovers, because they believed the power of manly love was the most powerful force on Earth. They were pretty awesome.
I’m glad Walky is calling Joyce out for some of her shitty behavior. Considering that she and Dorothy cheated on him and how nasty she was towards him when Dorothy broke up with him, he has every right to criticize her for how she’s been behaving lately. I’d like to hope more of her friend group calls Joyce out soon.
No consequences yet for Dorothy X Joyce… yet, but Joyce is looking for them and Dorothy’s life seems to be moving, not yet clear if out of her relationship as it is now.
Ahhh, Joyce. Truly she has a grand talent for speed running her adjustment periods to any new identity. Gayness. “SURELY I DO NOT COUNT AS BEING GAY DUE TO XYZ” issues from the new gayness. Bless her lil fluffy head.
Also for everyone above going “But no CONSIQUENCES” damn does joyce need to be frowning heavily and going ‘and also I can’t talk to my best friend, who I did bad to’ every strip she appears in or like. Does everyone take her aside one by one to go “what you did was selfish, and heres how it affected me”.
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Walky just sayin it like it is
👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
“A bunch of straights and Jennifer” also qualifies. Waiting for Jennifer’s reaction.
“I’m totally straight, except for that one time… and that other… I should call her…”
Now storm off in a huff Joyce.
If that’s too soon, she can leave in a minute and a huff
Yeah, Walky gets it! And finally, maybe Joyce will realise that he’s right, and she IS being an incredibly bad winner. And that she can be with Dots without rubbing everyone elses’ noses in it. Figuratively speaking, of course.
But no literal rubbing of noses in it either, I hope. xD
Joyce decides that it’s unfair that there’s no word for people like that, and starts designing a Jennifer Pride Flag when she gets back to the dorm.
Naturally, Jennifer loves it.
I think Billie would have loved it. Jennifer insists that she’s straight. (With an asterisk)
Put that Giant Asterisk on the Flag.
I believe you are describing the Greendale flag
I think the generally accepted phrasing is “just a phase she went through in college”.
“And a bit of high school. Look, shut up about it, gawwwd.”
It features various Jennifer pride colours and an emblem of a snakelike dragon with her face, feasting on its own tail.
It’s Joyce designing it so I can’t be convinced it won’t just be Jennifer’s bust superimposed over a Bisexual Flag.
This is acceptable.
I think ruth would outwardly hate it
Then hang up a copy of that flag in the ceiling of her closet
She was gonna call it the Billie flag, but that was a mouthful so she settled for just the first syllable
By which I mean the Bil flag of course
Roommate: “So, are you like gay or something?”
Billie: “What?”
Roommate: “What pride flag is that?”
Thank you, Walky!
Now if only anyone else acknowledged that instead of getting immediately sidetracked in a conversation about Joyce’s sexuality
are the straights ok? and Jennifer?
“The Straights Are All Right” – isn’t that a song, by, uhh, that band?
Also:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcVEDyro2sE
🎶 est-ce que les hétérosexuels vont bien?
Non.
In this scene, the Straights seem to be doing pretty good on the whole. Walky’s venting, but Sal’s fully happy, and Jacob and Lucy are all lovey-dovey still.
Contextual link: https://www.dumbingofage.com/2021/comic/book-11/04-hompk/boyfriendmaterial/
Perhaps, but the two particular “straights” Becky was talking about in that strip were Dorothy and Joyce who… ya know, *aren’t*. 😀
They are a little Dire, but they are getting money for nothing.
What have they got, at the end of the day, what have they got to take away? A bottle of whisky and a new set of lies, blinds on the windows, and a pain behind the eyes.
My straights, and
ZoidbergJennifer!Thank god Walky. Keep going. Keep going!
It would have been great to have a bit more passive-aggressive, but it’s something.
No, no, we’ve passed the point of passive aggressive. He needs to be more aggressive! More!
Yes!
Fight, fight, fight!!
all I can think about is Walky’s short lived super hero career ending due to his lack of fitness. I don’t think the softboi has it in him to not just sound angy.
Maybe he can be a new superhero:
Passive Aggressive Man.
“Up, up, and away!”“It’s fine, if that’s what you want to do!”I know, but Walky is just warming up
I need all bold text walky with several exclamation points at this point or I wouldn’t be satisfied
Walky being passive would only be drowned out by Joyce’s cruel laughter followed by intense moaning as she kisses Dorothy right in front of him.
Yes, I’m sure she’d do this right now to prove that she’s more “worthy” of Dorothy’s love than Walky ever was.
AMEN! I legit cheered. Someone had to say it frankly.
It’s a good start!
Jennifer is in a category all her own?
Was this not obvious? 😉
For us.. but they lack details… Then again maybe it’s that obvious.
Normal. Jennifer is Normal.
Well, yes, she is perpendicular to a surface at present.
Hail, math clan!
Jennifer needs her own normal pride flag. She’s very proud of being normal.
god forbid a woman get a little silly with it!!!
Sometimes you just have sex with your best friend
You’re allowed, like, once.
It’s not gay if you say “no homo” after.
and I mean, they are just roommates. Historians will back it up when talking of President Dorothy.
And they were possibly wearing socks while doing it, making it not gay according to the rule book.
Hater containment thread, think it’s especially needed today. Kvetch here ⬇️
Walky sayin some stuff about breakin things around Lucy is still very funny.
Lucy was the one who broke things in their relationship.
I don’t think Walky was blameless, he didn’t do enough to stand up to his parents until after it was done.
I’d argue Walky’s heart not bein in it broke the relationship from day one, and Lucy just made it official.
I think Walky could definitely have revved up into being committed to Lucy but the “I love you” thing killed any chance of that stone dead, it freaked him out way too much.
yeah; he had JUST gotten over a messy breakup with Dorothy, and then couldn’t commit. And Lucy was moving way too fast for him, but he was too afraid to make that clear for her.
I still think Dorothy and Walky hooking back up was the least healthy thing for both of them to do. Especially in Walky’s case; he has a lot of growing he needs to do before jumpin into bed with someone again lol
I honestly think even if everything went right Walky and Lucy wouldn’t have lasted. I think he wanted something casual and she wanted forever.
I will continue to use this thread to say I don’t really like Lucy or Jacob. Not really for anything they’ve done here but just in general.
lol
I’m with you on Lucy. Jake’s… okay. Just kinda meh.
You know I used to strongly dislike Lucy, but my hatred for Joyce has made Lucy much more tolerable in comparison
Lucy is just Joyce minus character development and a girl best friend. Joyce now is what Lucy would be if she’d had a better roommate first semester.
Nah Lucy is way too reserved and boring to be like Joyce now, which is why I disliked her but ironically her saving grace now. She got laid with Jacob yet didn’t go up to everyone yelling “I HAD JACOB INSIDE ME”. I’d rather hang out with Lucy and that’s saying a LOT
Yesterday on the patreon I asked what Joyce really expected Walky’s reaction here to be, and having had time to think about it I think I can hazard a guess at a real answer.
Here we see Joyce occupying essentially the same frame of mind as Walky was seeming to a little while ago: that in spite of their often-vitriolic sniping at each other, they are fundamentally friends. Joyce is now fully-cognizant of the fact that a great deal of her bickering with Walky was in fact a sublimated competition for Dorothy’s attention and affection. Previously, Walky had come out on top, but now Joyce has won! (As she always should have, of course!) There shouldn’t be any bad blood about that, right? It’s just like when he got together with Dorothy and she started spending less time with Joyce, right? To Joyce, there’s nothing different about this as compared to their previous jockeying for Dorothy’s love, except that she’s won this time. No hard feelings, right?
Except, no. No, there are hard feelings. Once again Joyce has run roughshod over another person’s relationship in order to get what she wants. She didn’t even let Dorothy break up with Walky – she ran in, grabbed her, and laughed in Walky’s face. And Walky is supposed to just be okay with that? What, because he made some jokes about how Joyce transparently wanted to much his girlfriend’s carpet? No! This is not the same as their previous bickering. Joyce has been an eager participant in doing Walky wrong and causing him real, genuine emotional harm. And while Walky had previously still been willing to call her a friend, maybe seeing her here, STILL gloating at him, has made him consider that, hey, no, this is bullshit, I don’t have to take this. Joyce still thinks they’re bickering buddies, but that’s not what this is anymore. She has fucked her relationship with Walky, her friend, and unless she pulls her head the hell out of her ass that damage is going to be irreparable. And in the bargain, now everyone in the friend group has to deal with how insufferable she is now. She has broken everything, as Walky says.
I really hope that at least one person overtly stops being Joyce’s friend over this and Walky has good reason to be that person.
If this leads into a self-actualized Walky arc, i’ll forgive…not all my gripes, but a lot of ’em
My first impression when I was reading today’s strip was that honestly I expected a stronger reaction from Walky. He comes across more as annoyed than angry.
But then I realized that Walky is kind of a Master of avoiding uncomfortable emotional confrontation, so actually processing his emotions into mild snark and sarcasm is pretty in line.
And part of that I think has to do with the fact that he has very little confidence in himself, so even when someone is an asshole to him, he still thinks “yeah I deserved this”.
I always thought their interaction was just one of tolerance.
But yes, Joyce has always shown that unhealthy obsession with Dorothy.
Now we just have to wait for Joe, Dina, and Becky’s responses.
Joyce called Walky family before, back when Becky first arrived, saying she would have to put up with him while hiding in Joyce’s dorm room.
As for Walky, well his best, oldest, and possibly only friend for the longest time, is Jennifer, so if you go by the antagonism is that relationship, I think it’s a safe bet that Walky considers Joyce a friend.
At the very least, he saw her as part of the friend group, and that includes Sarah who is probably the one who likes Walky the least in the group (she repeatedly thought about Joe’s feelings regarding the cheating and never once mentioned Walky, if we want to take that as a measurement of close she feels toward him).
Side note: anyone remember how Joyce (and Sal, to a lesser extent, but let’s focus on Joyce) got righteous indignant with Walky over finding out he quickly got with Amber after being dumped by Dorothy (despite Joyce wanting to hook Walky up with Amber)?
Do you think she’ll remember and/or that it will come up in the near future?
Of course she won’t. It’s been one rule for her and Dorothy and one rule for everyone else this entire arc 🙄
this, this, a million times this. joyce is a terrible menace to walky
You know I’ve been wondering why Joyce’s needling of Walky feels more “real” post-protest than their bickering in the past and I think this is exactly. Joyce has crossed a line and is too wrapped up in their real-fake-real competition to notice. I think the real Walky crashout isn’t gonna happen until Dorothy tries to “no hard feelings” him for her own sake.
I would actually look forward to Walky’s crashout being when Dorothy tries her luck in a conversation with him. Now given prior history with how much avoidance Dorothy showed with Danny in their breakup–Dorothy either will avoid Walky like the plague, or has so little respect for him that she’ll open with a joke and some gaslighting. As a treat.
This. I believe Dorothy “cares” about Walky, but that has at no point ever translated into respect, which is a different thing entirely. And I wonder if Walky will be able to tell the difference.
Joyce is the most selfish character in the comic.
I’m really hoping that more of Joyce’s friend group does what Walky is doing here. She apparently needs to actually be told by more people that her behavior lately has been terrible, since she doesn’t seem to be very willing to think about how she’s treated others on her own.
Joyce is even worse than yesterday. She is being extra shitty to her friends.
per the alt text, they’ve been downgraded to “allies”.
I suspect there may be further downgrades, particularly if any of them clearly side with Walky over her.
Joyce has become literally the most annoying character of just about any piece of media I can think of that I consume
Now that I think about it, I think that statement he made to Raidah sounded more like “I’ll take away your title of hateful character.”
This isn’t hate, but it is a potentially controversial question: does Sal even really *like* her brother?
I’m being genuine, I don’t remember the archives too well. I keep seeing people say ‘sal should stand up for walky’ and i’m always like ‘but would she?’ Because again; i’ve the prainpower of a root vegetable and I don’t remember
It’s complicated but they’re definitely closer since the timeskip.
I feel like Walky and Sal have grown closer post-timeskip? Maybe I’m just making assumptions but I feel like they’ve been more on the same page.
I don’t think Sal ever DISLIKED Walky, he was just living in (probably willing) denial of the reality of the worlds they lived in and their dynamics with their parents. But Walky has shown himself learning, understanding, and even standing up to their parents. And Walky seems to like Sal just fine, even if they are almost entirely-different people. At the very least they clearly love each other, and they’ve been steadily closer since starting college.
I think that Sal and Walky have sibling cordiality, and shared experiences, but really only started getting a little closer when Walky told off their parents for how they treated Sal.
I think people have more expectations of Sal than should apply here. I loved my older brother when he was alive but I didn’t give a shit about his love life. It wasn’t my business. Unless Joyce is a direct threat to Walky this whole thing is entirely his mess to engage with. If he wants Sal’s help he’ll ask for it.
Yeah, part of being a good sibling is knowing when you’re needed. Sal is going to assume Walky can take care of himself here until and unless he asks her for support.
Though it wouldn’t surprise me if she checks in with him sometime later today to ask how he’s doing.
It’s more the golden child vs the scapegoat dynamic. The siblings are hopefully trying to heal from that now that they’re both aware of their parent’s toxic patterns. It’ll take time to break those habits and generational trauma.
When Walky’s hair suddenly made him “hot”, Sal told the math group to not let him know, as he’d only recently started to become decent and knowing he’s “hot” would be too much power for him to control appropriately based on his lack of experience being so.
Somewhat short answer: Sal thinks Walky is becoming a decent person and/or brother and does not want to hinder his growth towards that.
I got the impression that the siblings had little contact during the years Sal was sent away to boarding school, but I don’t recall if blame for that was given. Walky seems to feel a great deal of guilt around that whole situation, but dunno how much agency he had to help or contact her. He’s been making gestures to try and be a better brother to her since they started college, though. Punching Asher, attempting to rebuke mom’s racism, etc.
I’m glad walky’s Finally calling joyce on her shit holy fuck. Joyce has become so unlikable for me this arc. Please don’t let them move on after this. Keep up the pressure on her.
If walky is somehow presented as being in the wrong for this i will riot
Yea, while I hated the cheating I would have gotten over it because they are young, but with everything that has happened after I dont know if Ill ever stop disliking Joyce now. Shes been just so crappy to multiple people and she doesnt seem to care.
He’s still being remarkably nice by not telling everyone exactly how Joyce was a sore winner to him. In any other media the cheating spouses other SO would be a straight up villian for laughing in the face of the person who got cheated on then dumped.
I’m hoping Walky and Sarah earlier are not gonna be the only characters to criticize Joyce for the way she’s been acting.
Seeing Walky’s righteous indignation is great…
But Joyce’s reaction appears to show she’s unaffected. It probably won’t be until Joe that something occurs to her. What class do they take again? Dina… *and* Becky also share that one… don’t they?
Anyway, she’s being stupid again about sexuality but it wasn’t as obnoxious this time so yay.
I really feel like Joyce has some sort of lack of shame object permanence. If there’s a term for that please share. She just doesn’t have the capacity to think about anyone she’s hurt unless they’re staring directly at her.
But he is, and she’s ignoring it!
I think Walky is the exception. She doesn’t like Walky and I’d even be bold enough to say they aren’t friends. But she also seemed pretty obnoxious around Raidah too, maybe Raidah is also an exception because she’s an enemy, or maybe Joyce is just horrible. I think if Becky or Joe were here she actually would feel guilty.
She called Walky family before.
They hang out together aside from shared classes.
They’ve given each other advice on somewhat weighty subjects.
They are friends.
That said, if people can be friends and not like each other, I wouldn’t be surprised if they claimed that.
Though that’s mostly Joyce; Walky’s best and oldest friend is Jennifer, so he might consider that kind of friendship as deep affection.
I heavily dispute most of this. Sure they may consider themselves family but that’s different to me from friends. They don’t often elect to spend time together if ever. Just diving the archives and the times they’re together which is often, is in situations like this, they’re either going to the same place or with someone else in their shared friend group. Jennifer, Dorothy, Sal, ect.
I know what the comic tries to present but I really disagree with the narrative you can treat people like shit and then say “we’re friends.” and that is acceptable. Becky has this problem with Dorothy, Mike had this problem, and Joyce and Walky do too. I consider their relationship closer to Sal and Malaya’s than being friends.
I think Joyce is just horrible.
The only source of shame Joyce respects is her own hang ups. Other people don’t seem to count, even when the thing the gets hung up on is hwo she expects them to act.
They take biology and life drawing together.
she’s got so much foot in mouth here she may as well be a sasquatch
Is Sasquatch okay? I didn’t know he was sick. Should I leave chicken soup in the woods?
It gets in my craw the way Joyce is talking about Dorothy in such an objectifying way — like she’s some prized treasure that Joyce won off of Walky, and not a person with any sort of romantic autonomy. I know this is the Big Romantic OTP Endgame Supership or whatever, but Joyce has a bad habit of dehumanizing Dorothy through pedestaling her and treating her like some kind of Glorious Untouchable Demigoddess at the drop of a hat, which is why I’ve always been leery of the two as a couple; it’s deeply unhealthy, and not in an elevated “drama hurricane” why like Jennifer’s relationships often are but in a terribly mundane, unpleasant to watch way.
Romanticization is not the same as romance, and until Joyce knocks that shit off, Willis is never going to get me to buy in on this ship as Glorious Wedding Bells Endgame, end of.
(And not to be a salty shipper on main, but I would like to point out that part of Joyce and Joe’s chemistry was that they did, in fact, see each other as people, and were far too familiar with each other’s flaws to romanticize the other. Well, Joe did a bit of romanticizing, but he’s also one of the ones who most consistently called Joyce out on her shit, and she very much called him out on his.)
Joecy was the best ship in the comic and I will not be accepting questions.
It’s a symptom of how she views things with Wally in terms of a competition, which it was really, and how she’s won it.
Must have be a result of growing up all brothers (or at least thinking she did).)
I have my doubts about the stability of their relationship. I think we’ve already seen a pretty big gap between Joyce and Dorothy with how they feel about cheating. Joyce feels entitled too it while Dorothy feels guilty.
It kind of seems to me like Joyce consistently is encouraging Dorothy to not worry about being a good person because she is already perfect. But fundamentally I don’t think that is Dorothy’s style. She doesn’t work to be good because of insecurity, but because she is actually passionate and ambitious.
She’s been through a lot of trauma and had her worldview shaken up, but I don’t think the result is that she gives up on trying to change the world. She might not become president but she sure as heck can still devote herself to making meaningful social change in other ways.
Precisely because of that detail, I’ll continue to give Dorothy the benefit of the doubt, yes, with neutrality.
And she should also apologize to Walky.
NOTE: I’m not saying they should get back together. Yes, it was a ship I loved and that could have gone further. But putting them together wouldn’t feel right for either of them.
Honestly I’m kind of wondering if Joyce and Dorothy are meant to be a long-term thing at all. It’s not sustainable without a lot of growth on Joyce’s part at least, and probably some on Dorothy’s as well. At the very least I expect there to be some rockiness between the two of them soon.
It would be a nice twist if Joyce does start to feel board in her relationship with Dorothy after she stops seeing her as an unobtainable goal, so much of her idea of romance revolves around wanting something she can’t have.
Hohoho, feed the tension and drama in both of them, and let that help Dorothy realize how Joyce really sees her.
Yeah this is for sure gonna be a problem for them down the line. Every single relationship Dorothy has had has involved some degree of idolizing her. She goes back and forth between trying to avoid it (1st Walky breakup) and using it as a crutch (attempt to rekindle with Walky). I’m curious how she’ll react when she realizes Joyce is using her Dorothy pedestal to justify how she’s treating everyone else.
I also can’t see what is so great about this romance. Willis seems to think this ship with their selfi insert character is super cute, but it hasn’t been.
no way Joyce is having the audacity of asking to shake hands lile that in first panels, without a drop of shame… No, no!
I’m very glad someone besides Sarah (and I guess Raidah) finally vocalized how poorly Joyce has been behaving in these past several months/two days.
Sadly that person is Walky so I fully doubt she’ll take it very serious. But atleast more people are actually telling her she messed up rather than brushing off what happened.
I wish we could have gotten more than 2 panels of this rather than pivoting to this identity discussion.
Because even when I was 18, I think I had the wherewithall to realize that trying to tell someone how to self-identify is a sucker’s game. That Sal, Lucy, and Jacob, all people who are supposed to be at least relatively socially adroit, feel the need to try and correct Joyce on this is strange to me.
If I had a nickel for every time in this arc I wish Willis went for Doylism over Watsonism, I’d have 2 nickels. Which isn’t a lot, but it’s weird that it happened twice, right?
Yeah i worry the pivot is just gon na make joyce covee her ears and go ‘lalala i can’t hear you!!’
Lucy has always been willing to correct other people about social categories.
And it’s a good call back because she remembers she tagged her as a lesbian white version of herself at meeting. ( Does she remember that the next line was stay away from Jacob ? )
Everyone else here has Also always corrected ( cult raises) her bout social categories and probably sees it that way.
Joyce is correct in that for once she has more experience. But not enough to see she is bi
A white bisexual version of her is how Lucy described Joyce to Walky after meeting her.
I’m not here to Kvetch but to say due to all the people bongoing about us Kvetching here I refuse to be contained any longer.
My comments will no longer be in this thread and if people don’t like it they can suck my left nut cause the right is reserved
S’more than half of the comments on today’s strip so far in this thread, so I don’t know why it’s viewed as some sort of punishment to be “contained” by it, honestly. If I could participate wholeheartedly in this part of the comment section, I would be much happier leaving comments right now.
You’re not the majority of the readership, but you’re absolutely the majority of the active commenters right now, and it’s likely to only keep skewing that way for the foreseeable future, so.
I wouldn’t worry about the vanishingly few folks who actually bother complaining. They get drowned out real fast, heh.
IMO and FWIW, my perception and recollection is that back when Joyce and Dorothy first and finally got together “for real”, the ratio was much more in the other direction: lots more readers reacting positively, while others expressed unhappiness with this or that aspect of how it was handled. However, as this storyline has
draggedcontinued on (and on, and on) for weeks, and (per Throwatron’s recent comments) will likely, due to the pacing of updates, continue to do so for months of real time, that has changed. I expect it will continue to be thus until and unless the content to which people are reacting again changes significantly.I’m genuinely sorry and sympathetic that something which used to bring you pleasure apparently no longer does. I wish it had not come to this.
Uggghh I hate Joyce so much rn
I will feel a whole lot better about things if Joyce doubles down in her ”I did nothing wrong, I’m great and heroic!”, and the blowback is as big as she deserves.
If they all just walk meekly to class together, because this is just ”Joyce being Joyce” I’ll be even more frustrated.
I need to say this for my sanity’s sake.
I have seen the comparison between how Walky and Joyce treated eachother in the past, with Walky ripping on Joyce for obviously having feelings for Dorothy, and that being seen as a reason for her treating him like she is doing now.
Look at that situation for a while. We have a friend group, where one of the friends is pining for the partner of another person in that friend group. That in itself would lend itself to something being uncomfortable in that group. Now, Walky did not really handle it well, opting for sarcastic sniping when the mature thing would probably be to have a real talk about it. But I think that his sniping comes from that place of discomfort.
And Joyce, once she and Dorothy forms a romantic relationship, going “I win” and literally laughing in his face shows that he was right to be uncomfortable towards that situation.
I get it though, feelings are tricky, and relationships more so. The heart wants what it wants. But this also feels like Joyce is using that relationship to get back at Walky, which is a strange thing to do in a new relationship with someone one loves.
Tl;dr – Joyce should just take the W and not rub it in Walky’s face.
Though, if she did that, there would be less drama, and I do like me some drama.
Yeah! Definitely trust a Walky crashout! Even if that was a really light one.
He can find a second wind, i believe in him.
I’m reading this as a pause for the “WTF did you just say now, Joyce?” rather than an end to Walky making his point.
Also jesus, joyce. Idealization is another form of dehumanisation. I know black and white thinking is your big struggle, but.
(This isn’t hate more…mild bemusement.)
I thought she said she won a medal!
Maybe FIFA will give her one.
Rather she got it than the actual twit.
It is a little funny how she was claiming she was “Heroically Gay” considering that in practice the only obstacle gayness presented to her getting together with Dorothy where her own internalized self-perceptions.
Which, to be fair, undoubtedly were instilled into her by a homophobic, heteronormative society… but I also think it is worth recognizing that not every gay person experiences the same amount of opposition.
Thanks to my math B.A from 52 years ago (!!!) I enjoyed that comment
That was supposed to be a reply to Slartibeast
8-)}
I too enjoyed the comment. Felt the need to reply in kind, but my mind failed me.
I think I just felt a laugh again…
*sighs* That’s been a while. Feeling kinda rusty. *coughs out dust*
“Just a bunch of straights and Jennifer” got me, enjoyed this one.
That alt-text is vicious. Joyce at her most insufferable.
GET HER, WALKY.
GET HER.
I think she’s taken now. 😛
Well she should be taken.
Far away 😛
I imagine she has plans after college.
I wish the goblins would take Joyce away… Right Now.
Tyler Cutebiker from Geavity Falls “Get em, get em.:”
This is a great strip.
Indeed. I’m honestly not sure why people come back week after week to complain, but hopefully it keeps the ad view numbers up.
Because kvetching is fun whats not adding up
Well I can’t speak for everyone but many people have been reading this for literally a decade or more so it’s partly force of habit and partly hoping that the story will FINALLY take a turn for the better, and they complain because it’s a forum and that’s kind of human nature when a story you’re super invested in goes downhill
I’ve been reading this comic for 15 years and I’m not going anywhere
Because people can like other parts of the comic and are also allowed to voice their opinion on the part they dont like especially when its the focus?
I have It’s Walky strips on my HD going back to 2002.
I’ve been here for a decade and one shittily written arc isn’t going to make me leave.
Imma bongo about the shittily written arc for being written shittily tho
Because we’ve been waiting for a strip like this one?
Still love Joyce, but she pretty much had that coming from Walky. The idolizing and idealizing of “real” gay people in panel three is pretty unhealthy. And for some reason, the line “You’re just a bunch of straights and Jennifer!” is absolutely hilarious. It’s like she respects that Jennifer doesn’t identify as gay or bi, but she can’t possibly call her straight.
She can just call herself a Jennifer.
Is there an app for Calling Jennifers?
She has to because if Jennifer is “just bi” that means she is too and she can’t be her own special brand of “gay but only for Dorothy” anymore
It’s unhealthy to lionize peple just for being gay, of course, but we all realize who she’s talking about, here, right? Not herself, not even Dorothy… but Becky, whom she still idolizes.
Just a little note for everyone insisting that she’s forgotten her best friend.
Worshipping gays as personal warrior demigods is kinda crap. We’re all just people. All fighting for resources and making alliances for common causes.
It’s all incredibly cringy
Noooo Joyce Brown? Being cringe? Get outta here.
‘Twas very cringefail
( raises hand slightly….)
Accepting worshippers. Apply within
It’s also kind of weird considering Joyce was just saying “I was heroically gay. I should get a medal. Nothing else should matter more”
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2025/comic/book-16/02-im-the-problem-its-me/strictlybytechnicality/
She also and much more recently said this so
Speak for yourself, mortal.
Seriously, did Dorothy literally fuck Joyce’s brains out?
What is the counterpart to “Thinking with your dick”?
thinking with your clit
or tits if you prefer
Cogitation with your vagination
Evidence is mounting…
So was Joyce, apparently.
Nah her brains were always devoted to more important matters. Biblical passages, Calculus. Keeping food from touching each other.
Social categories always eluded her.
Or hasn’t fucked her enough times for the blood to return to her brain yet.
Joyce had this goal of getting a fairytale romance and losing her virginity to the person she would marry. That person would be ambitious, brave, and strong in their convictions, and be successful while Joyce would become a doting housewife. Dorothy pretty much checks all the boxes that Joyce had on her checklist, so now she’s pretty much announcing to the world that she found her soulmate and it’s only going to be a matter of time before she’s Mrs. Dorothy Keener…
However…
1. Dorothy has been a neurotic mess ever since Blaine destroyed her plan of escape when he and Ross kidnapped her, Joyce, and half the characters of this strip.
2. She LOATHES Joe and Joyce promised him a talk about their relationship but hasn’t seen him since the beginning of yesterday, so there’s no doubt this little oversight will come back to haunt all three characters.
3. Joyce has been so obnoxious to everyone, ESPECIALLY Walky, that she risks alienating herself from all her friends. Sarah in particular, who has always had her back in the past (albiet begrudgingly) can’t stand her right now, and let’s not even talk about poor Becky and Dina…
In summation- Joyce probably has her First Dance Wedding Song as “Wind Beneath My Wings,” while Walky, Sarah, and the others are requesting she and Dorothy dance to Lady Gaga’s “Bad Romance.” (Or “Judas.”)
Jennifer’s being awfully quiet in the “you had sex with a woman, you’re gay/bi” conversation
Yeah wasn’t she full-on “bisexuality doesn’t exist”? It’s been a while since she’s really been in a storyline hasn’t she?
iirc, she’s not opposed to the idea of bisexuality existing. *she’s* just not bisexual she’s “normal”
They just made up bisexuality for porn. Jennifer is a normal straight girl who has sex with other girls like all normal straight girls.
Exactly.
With all due respect John, Tree Law is important.
I don’t know precisely how it fits in. Maybe a PSA for prelaw.
But I’m sure there’s a branch somewhere
She told her multiple times It doesn’t count when it’s your best friend.
What can she say now that Joyce has fully enacted it? Other than buy matching jackets and turn this into a Best Friends clique
Cheating is bad, but Willis is making the Lord work in making it a mid mistake like any others, and not like a deadly sin. I won’t elaborate, it’s 2AM
Thanks you!
Wow pushback from someone other than Sarah? Actual narrative consequences (in the sense that drama is built on conflict) for Joyce’s impulsive actions? Did I wake up in a parallel universe where Willis DIDN’T write the most milquetoast cheating storyline of all times? But will it actually stick or will it go back to not mattering in the slightest? We’ll continue to keep you informed as this story develops.
And of all the someones, it’s Walky!
(that should totes be a comic title)
And its narrative consequences that Joyce is experiencing, instead of someone else, and it’s for being an AH rather than for being bi.
Joyce, yer not a genuine gay person. Just a part-time Dorothy-gay person. Don’t listen to them straights there. Go talk to a real life genuine gay. Like Becky. Or Ethan. I’m certain those conversations will be great and light and happy!
joyce has some bad foot in mouth disease going
Seriously, she makes me, well known for having foot in mouth disease (a hereditary trait from my mother), look down right tactful.
I know, i love it so much.
She’s been at it for long enough that she’s starting to sound like podiatarian…
HA!
I’m glad Walky is atleast standing up for himself instead of ignoring his feelings again. Like this is a shitty situation but by all means this is progess to being more honest about his feelings to others which is a lot better to how he was coping with stuff like this in the past.
I want to believe that this is the starting point for Walky’s character development.
Yikes Joyce this is such a bad look
Love how even in the depths of her own self-bi-erasure Joyce ain’t buying Jennifer’s alleged straightness.
“I learned it from watching you”
…how is she still in the closet to herself after fucking a woman?
I mean, ask Jennifer.
Man I miss Billie and Ruth, them breaking up was probably the thing I dislike the most about the timeskip.
Billie and Ruth and Walky and Amber both broke up at the same time. It’s like my Christmas gift that year was DISAPPOINTMENT.
I like my toxic yuri damnit! But I also liked my “slowly de-toxifying from personal growth yuri” as well!
Toxic Yuri and Dialysis Yuri.
Socks were on. Or maybe they weren’t. I didn’t buy the Slipshine, to be honest.
Best Friends don’t count.
Dorothysexual
A woman. A. s’not like she sampled the entire buffet.
Just ask Jennifer she’ll explain.
Well, who do we think she’s referring to, here?
She knows Dotty is also ‘not gay’ by her definition, here–she’s had twice as many male lovers as she’s had women.
And she doesn’t consider herself straight. And she even accepts that Jennifer is in some category other than ‘gay’ or ‘straight’.
So who is left? Who could she be talking about when she is discussing what amazing warriors for the Light gays are?
Ethan. Becky.
Now, those two probably wouldn’t want this sort of adulation. But it’s pretty clear here she is actually recognizing her own privilege–she doesn’t feel like she’s ~earned~ the right to be called ‘gay’, because all the folks she considers ‘really gay’ have had to claw and fight and scrap for every bit of happiness they’ve gotten.
She has self-awareness. She just fucks up the expression of it.
Dorothy has had 3x as many male lovers as women.
We don’t know the name of the person, and she didn’t go into detail, but she casually mentioned (prior to the time skip) having to be the more experienced person than her lovers 3 different times, so she was apparently with someone before Danny (unless she broke up with Danny, slept with the other person, then got back with Danny).
I understand your confusion, Walky, but Joyce isn’t actually asking a question here. She’s merely wanting to be assured that no one’s upset at here.
Not that anyone would be! Because she’s done nothing wrong. Absolutely nothing she might have to feel the slightest bit guilty about.
And even if she had, being in True Love justifies anything!
Got it? Good. Glad that’s all settled, and she doesn’t have to think about it any more.
(typo – upset at her.)
She was informing that there were no hard feelings, not asking
Note presence of two other females that Joyce has expressed physical interest in (Sal – hair; Jennifer – breasts) (and one other male that Joyce has expressed physical interest in (Jacob)).
Was there anyone else? I don’t think so, but memory is like a whatchacallit.
Lucy is the only person there that Joyce has never expressed attraction to. (Yes, even Walky, even in this universe.)
”He’s made of pretty parts”
Now I’m wondering if Sal and/or Jennifer remember those expressions of attraction.
Or maybe Jennifer (at least) thought: “Of course she likes my breasts! Lots of girls like my breasts! It’s very normal!”
Yay Walky called her out
Oh Joyce honey no
As deathcringe as this strip is, I gotta say, I feel the imposter syndrome part at least. I’ve legally changed my name and 90% of the people I interact with daily are in on the fact that I’m trans and queer but I still find myself thinking “well I’m not able to medically transition yet so I’m basically closeted and living as cishet”.
One of these days I’m gonna just be this old dude all post-GRS and be like well I don’t have a trans symbol sticker on my postapocalyptic cybernetic organs so like, I’m still basically closeted right.
As a trans butch who often wonders if their ongoing physical transition is obvious enough to signal queer I feel this in a deep part of my soul
Sometime when people call me by my preferred pronoun I feel like I haven’t “earned” it, whatever that means.
Mhm, it resonates with me as well. I had bottom surgery 8 years ago and I still sometimes find my inner voice saying that I somehow tricked myself into mistakingly thinking I’m trans, but that I’m not actually trans like real trans people.
Folks, I’m surprised no one has considered the following scenario: Joyce hasn’t officially broken up with Joe yet, and I suspect she wants to have a foot in both camps (not equally, obviously). So, I think she’ll end up proposing a romantic threesome, which obviously the others aren’t interested in: Dorothy will want an exclusive relationship, while Joe will realize it will never work.
That’s way too much open vulnerability for Joyce. I think she’s bending over backwards to convince herself she didn’t actually do anything wrong cheating because a part of her wants to keep seeing Joe without Dorothy’s knowledge. Or worse, she’s gonna try to fuck him to prove she’s still kinda straight.
I don’t think the latter scenario will happen. She’s too caught up in her queerness, becoming a fundamentalist in that sense, just as she was as a Christian. I’m sorry if I draw the ire of her fans, but that’s exactly the definition of Karen, regardless of her stance.
Joe is interested in that. He suggested it.
It’s not that he’s interested; he claims he’d tolerate the situation because he doesn’t want to break off the relationship with Joyce despite the preconditions. The feasibility of it is another matter entirely.
Joyce explaining to Dorothy that they can include Joe–I hope it looks a lot like this because THE IRONY.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2024/comic/book-14/04-for-me-it-was-tuesday/sweeten-2/
I think Joyce considered this until she had sex with Dorothy. Joyce has pretty much become laser-focused on Dotty. She literally does not care about ANYONE ELSE, and this is causing her friendships to fracture. To her, Joe doesn’t exist now. There’s just Dorothy and the speedrun to the alter so Joyce can get that MRS degree she always wanted, damn the consequences. True Love Conquers All and stuff.
I’m really hoping that this runaway train of lust and pride finally gets derailed by Joe wanting to finally sit down and talk with Joyce, and for Dorothy to find out that Joyce never actually broke up with him, just put him out of her head for the weekend.
Dumbing of Age, Book 17: A Bunch of Straights and Jennifer
The perfect freaking title.
Much to recommend it.
Chef’s kiss.
One one hand I can appreciate the experience of feeling like “I shouldn’t claim that Identity, that would be appropriative”. There is a mindset difference between thinking “them” to thinking “us”.
But a big part of it is recognizing that Queerness is not defined by “being the same as all other queer people”. So yeah, Joyce might look at people like Becky and think “I haven’t gone through what people like Becky have gone through. My experience wasn’t like hers. I don’t relate to my sexuality like she does” but fundamentally there is no quintessential queer experiences because there is no single, limited way of being queer.
A few
daysminutesstrips back, she was explicitly thinking (out loud) that she hasn’t suffered enough to claim that.*cough*notlikeJesussufferedonthecross
(gosh, where did that come from? she doesn’t believe in that stuff anymore, right?)
Yo. Jennifer…..Now is your chance. Ditch these losers, maybe go see what Asma is up to, get ya girl Alice involved. Let’s get that shit going. This group has a expiration date. It will be ashes by next spring. You, Raidah, Alice, Asma. We can make this work. Reboot this whole comic.
You had me til you decided to include Raidah. A strip so heavily focused on Miss Not Even Wrong would be unreadable for me.
No hard feelings she says. What a piece of work.
Walky’s better than me cuz Joyce would be walking to math class with a broken hand if she tried that shit on me
And you probably be in jail.
Thanks Lucy.
FINALLY!! Took so long for Walky to get a chance to say this. The wait for anyone other than Billie (looking at you Sal) to have his back, though, continues. And, hell, even Billie took it pretty easy on Dorothy relative to what we know she has in her.
Also, not that long ago Joyce had that epiphany that changing Jocelyne’s contact name in her phone from “Dumb [Sibling]” just because Jocelyne was trans might be more transphobic than keeping it. How’d we get from that to the “perfect warrior demigods” dumbness?
I cackled at, “A bunch of straights… and Jennifer.” both because I’ve said something obtuse like that before and also been “the Jennifer” in a way.
That last panel is just pure perfect! 🤣
And Joyce thinking this much of gay people, wonder if that comes from how much she loves Becky?
And yes! Lucy for the win!
Jacob should have known. There’s a whole arc were Joyce wanted to be his girlfriend. Come on dude, use the “b” word, it’s not going to hurt you. 😜
Agreed on the Becky point, though she probably also has Ethan in mind.
AND Jennifer.
God you need to have walky actually call her out this is the most milquetoast response he could have. “You’re a sore winner” like what
You will continue to be disappointed. What you want is just not something that’s going to happen.
Given that IIRC Willis was going to initially have Joyce and Dorothy kiss and then conclude they couldn’t be together for now, I’m wondering if this is going to end up an extended version of this where the relationship ends up torpedoed in the short term before rebuilding into something healthier later on.
I’m not basing this off anything in particular; the preview panels we’ve seen seem to imply that the two are still a couple well into next year if I recall but I also seem to recall that Willis isn’t above editing a panel to avoid spoilers. Also, Joyce is being super unpleasant about this whole thing and so I can assume the intended implication is that Joyce isn’t handling this in a healthy fashion.
But eh. We’ll see.
“so why were we waiting for that prick to go to class, anyway ?”
“What do you know, you’re… Jennifer.”
Y’know, that’s fair.
Walky mesa to be even a little angrier, “you’re a sore winner” DUDE C’MON THAT’S ALL YOU GOT???
I really don’t get what exactly you want from him here?? He IS angry here and telling Joyce off. What else could he do besides that.
Some people won’t be satisfied until Walky reduces Joyce to a pink mist with his gatling gun.
He is not as mad at her as they are. I don’t think anyone can be that mad.
Walky: You’re both selfish cheaters and deserve each other!
Joyce: lalalalala
Everyone else but Jacob: Y’all cheated? 🙁
Jacob: *sweats nervously*
idk like something happen please my crops are dying…
For some reason, this song pops to mind:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLCcOJcy9gc (Gay bar).
When do we tell her about the obvious crush with Sal?
Never, because it’s not true, she’s only ever and always been in True Love with Dorothy.
(And who wouldn’t be? because Dorothy is amazing and perfect in every way.)
… I’m actually starting to feel good about the comic again, mostly because I’m looking forward to Joyce’s head-on collision(s) with Reality.
Totally going to run into that reality that there have been others. At the least she is bisexual. At most a lesbian. Sal is definitely one she has crushed on, even tho she didn’t realize it as that.
Joyce has this conservative Christian attitude to change. She acts all high and mighty, like “I’ve made this important life discovery, I’m one of you now, pay attention to me”, and is completely oblivious to the collateral damage she causes.
And now here she is, running a victory lap in front of the boy who got dumped for her.
He’s had his heart broken for the second time in a week and she’s holding her hand out and saying “good game.”
I know, she’s been acting like she invented the gay awakening…
ok but why do you have to shout
Huh. I’m actually clapping for Walky. How about that.
I never really liked that Walky ran right back to Dorothy within minutes of being dumped by Lucy, or that he stuck with Dorothy when she described the relationship as something that has no consequences. Joyce literally yoinking Dotty away from Walky, declaring that she “won,” and laughing in his face about it, THEN reiterating that she won Dotty and had sex with her is the very definition of “sore winner.” Much as I hate to admit it, I’d be pissed at Joyce too and reject her “peace offering,” which is just a humble-brag in disguise.
Also, kudos on Lucy to finally tell Joyce that she’s bi. Too bad it’s fallen on deaf ears as Joyce has basically become the worst version of herself and believes everyone that calls her out on it is just jealous that they lost (Walky) or homophobic (Asma.) But of course, Joyce being Joyce, she’s not REALLY gay if she only had sex with one woman… but she’s proud to be not “straight,” and she pretends “bisexual” doesn’t exist… so what is she?
Is there anyone can stop this raging lust-monster that Dorothy unleashed? At this point I don’t think Dotty herself would be able to put this fire out.
I confess that I always got the feeling that Walky never truly loved Lucy, not in the way he loved Dorothy and Amber. (She definitely loved Walky though, I should clarify!) Lucy was good for him, he was comfortable with her, but he didn’t LOVE her. If they had gotten together, I feel it would have been one of those relationships where “we learn to love each other”. That kind of relationship can work, but it also runs the risk of fatigue or burnout in the long run because Walky would always feel like there’s “something missing”, and on Lucy’s side, she’ll eventually realize that Walky’s feelings for her are not as strong as hers for him, which can lead to disappointment or bitterness.
I think Lucy/Walky was probably doomed by their religious differences (and how Walky felt about that,) but he can still be bummed at the missed opportunity. He definitely put Lucy on a bit of a pedestal, even if he wasn’t ready for love conversations.
I really hope ruth and billie are like the walky and joyce of this series, or like the leslie and robin
Yeesh. “I’m not like one of those real gays” is… certainly not a great image.
Leslie could try explaining demisexuals but Joyce’s feelings for Jennifer’s bossoms and a few other things mean that she MIGHT just be another category of queer other than Dorothysexual.
And Becky needs to understand that once you’re someone’s sibling in the head, you’ll never be attracted to them. The Soviets had a study about that.
All those reflections on gay started to feel a bit like Bi-erasure, so thank you, Lucy.
The one glee in the sorest.
What the hell is a warrior gay? And how can you tell under all that armor?
Well the Greeks did apparently have those formations of gay partners fighting together.
There was a group of ancient Greek warriors called the Sacred Band who were all gay, and they were so ferocious that the Spartans feared them. Every warrior had a partner, and they were always lovers, because they believed the power of manly love was the most powerful force on Earth. They were pretty awesome.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ju8PQcvlq00
Yesssssssss, let it out Walky, be a character, make decisions!
Thank You Lucy! It’s funny Jacob didn’t say that, considering that not that long ago she was trying to climb him like he was a jungle gym.
I’m glad Walky is calling Joyce out for some of her shitty behavior. Considering that she and Dorothy cheated on him and how nasty she was towards him when Dorothy broke up with him, he has every right to criticize her for how she’s been behaving lately. I’d like to hope more of her friend group calls Joyce out soon.
No consequences yet for Dorothy X Joyce… yet, but Joyce is looking for them and Dorothy’s life seems to be moving, not yet clear if out of her relationship as it is now.
Ahhh, Joyce. Truly she has a grand talent for speed running her adjustment periods to any new identity. Gayness. “SURELY I DO NOT COUNT AS BEING GAY DUE TO XYZ” issues from the new gayness. Bless her lil fluffy head.
Also for everyone above going “But no CONSIQUENCES” damn does joyce need to be frowning heavily and going ‘and also I can’t talk to my best friend, who I did bad to’ every strip she appears in or like. Does everyone take her aside one by one to go “what you did was selfish, and heres how it affected me”.