Dumbing of Age Book Twelve

Dumbing of Age

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May 12, 2026

Binary

by David M Willis on June 22, 2013 at 12:01 am
  • 03 - Answers in Hennessy
└ Tags: dorothy, joe, joyce, leslie, roz

Discussion (163) ¬

[ Comments RSS ]
  1. Jen Aside
    Jen Aside
    June 22, 2013 at 12:01 am | #

    and how many new STDs, Joe? =p

    • Baroncognito
      Baroncognito
      June 22, 2013 at 12:06 am | #

      I’m betting Joe’s careful enough not to have picked up any.

      • Baroncognito
        Baroncognito
        June 22, 2013 at 12:07 am | #

        I mean, just because you have sex a lot and you’re adventurous doesn’t mean that you’re stupid about it.

        • Led
          Led
          June 22, 2013 at 7:24 pm | #

          True… Besides, this is Joe we’re talking about. He prolly has some kind of multidimensional alien power of being immune to them

  2. Mr. Random
    Mr. Random
    June 22, 2013 at 12:03 am | #

    I think Joyce is frustrated that Joe might have something to offer her…

    • StolenProperty
      StolenProperty
      June 22, 2013 at 12:35 am | #

      In his wrinkle? its just a sign that it grows 0_o

      • Neospector
        Neospector
        June 22, 2013 at 9:37 am | #

        Joe doesn’t have a wrinkle, he has a canyon.

  3. Plasma Mongoose
    Plasma Mongoose
    June 22, 2013 at 12:03 am | #

    I believe Joyce is worried about developing wrinkles.

    • Resne
      Resne
      June 22, 2013 at 1:54 pm | #

      When you spend so much time starch-pressing your white linens any hint of color is a threat

    • GoldStarz
      GoldStarz
      June 22, 2013 at 3:31 pm | #

      Wrinkles? Nah, she’s gonna shatter.

  4. Wonder Wig
    Wonder Wig
    June 22, 2013 at 12:03 am | #

    In Joe’s case, hopefully that glorious tapestry wont turn out to be an aids quilt.

    • Plasma Mongoose
      Plasma Mongoose
      June 22, 2013 at 12:06 am | #

      +1 LIKE

      • Aras Pabedinskas
        Aras Pabedinskas
        June 22, 2013 at 12:11 am | #

        YOUR AVATAR IS CURRENTLY DAPHNE WEARING VELMA’S SWEATER! WHAT IS HAPPENING TO ME?!?

        • Plasma Mongoose
          Plasma Mongoose
          June 22, 2013 at 12:20 am | #

          Actually today’s grav is Ringo Tsukimiya from the anime Uta no Price-sama, a crossdressing singing idol.

          • Aras Pabedinskas
            Aras Pabedinskas
            June 22, 2013 at 12:25 am | #

            But you see it, right?

            • Plasma Mongoose
              Plasma Mongoose
              June 22, 2013 at 1:00 am | #

              Kinda.

          • AJBulldis
            AJBulldis
            June 22, 2013 at 5:00 am | #

            Crossdressing, you say?

            So it’s actually Shaggy in Velma’s sweater.

            • DapperAnarchist
              DapperAnarchist
              June 22, 2013 at 5:26 am | #

              And Daphne’s wig.

              • Izzy
                Izzy
                June 22, 2013 at 7:11 am | #

                And Freddy’s boxers?
                And old man Jenkins’ shoes?

                • Lamachine
                  Lamachine
                  June 22, 2013 at 8:40 am | #

                  And he would’ve gotten away with it too, if it weren’t for you meddling kids…!

                • Makkabee
                  Makkabee
                  June 22, 2013 at 9:42 am | #

                  Jinkies!

                • motorfirebox
                  motorfirebox
                  June 22, 2013 at 10:31 am | #

                  This is why I read the comments.

  5. Nono
    Nono
    June 22, 2013 at 12:04 am | #

    Was a tapestry involved in one of those positions?

    • Yotomoe
      Yotomoe
      June 22, 2013 at 12:11 am | #

      He had sex with a tapestry.

      • DrunkenGator
        DrunkenGator
        June 22, 2013 at 12:26 am | #

        …and something tells me the wants it back…

        • DrunkenGator
          DrunkenGator
          June 22, 2013 at 12:29 am | #

          Lemme try the HTML again…
          …and something tells me the Kinsey Institute wants it back…

          • Mr. Random
            Mr. Random
            June 22, 2013 at 12:41 am | #

            His children shall be recreational Van Gogh recreations.

    • Skull025
      Skull025
      June 22, 2013 at 3:55 am | #

      The Tapestry is actually a well known sexual position. It involves two bottles of Sake and the magic rug from Aladdin.

      But, if you plan on actually getting off, god help you.

      • AgentKeen
        AgentKeen
        June 22, 2013 at 11:54 am | #

        Nothing against the rug from Aladdin, it’s a pretty righteous dude, but I get the feeling it would be awfully… chafe-y…

        • Reg
          Reg
          June 23, 2013 at 11:45 pm | #

          Don’t worry. It’s magic.

        • N0083rP00F
          N0083rP00F
          June 24, 2013 at 11:24 am | #

          … and silk … not that camel hair stuff …. ouchies ….

          • NightmareWarden
            NightmareWarden
            June 24, 2013 at 1:18 pm | #

            Look either you get a rough and scratchy carpet which you can’t slip off OR you get a rug that cannot handle the vicious weather conditions and the weight of a couple people.

  6. Yotomoe
    Yotomoe
    June 22, 2013 at 12:05 am | #

    Joe is the best role model.

    • Plasma Mongoose
      Plasma Mongoose
      June 22, 2013 at 12:08 am | #

      PUAs think Joe is a rightous dude.

      • Jackson
        Jackson
        June 22, 2013 at 12:10 am | #

        Joe isn’t shown being manipulative or coercive. He just liked fucking ladies who like fucking him.

        • Yotomoe
          Yotomoe
          June 22, 2013 at 12:12 am | #

          What lady wouldn’t? He’s JOE.

          • Aras Pabedinskas
            Aras Pabedinskas
            June 22, 2013 at 12:15 am | #

            Leslie.

        • Aras Pabedinskas
          Aras Pabedinskas
          June 22, 2013 at 12:14 am | #

          Well so far we have yet to see him actually hit on a lady, except Joyce and I forget how that went because I have yet to do another read through of the archives, so we have no clue how he goes about his way.

          • Plasma Mongoose
            Plasma Mongoose
            June 22, 2013 at 12:23 am | #

            RECAP: Joyce dated Joe and hired Mike to punch Joe in the face if he got too ‘forward’, the date didn’t go too well.

            • Yotomoe
              Yotomoe
              June 22, 2013 at 12:24 am | #

              It went great for Mike.

              • Mr. Random
                Mr. Random
                June 22, 2013 at 12:42 am | #

                Everything works out great for Mike. He’s Mike.

                • Jackson
                  Jackson
                  June 22, 2013 at 9:38 am | #

                  Can’t be that great. There’s still happiness in the world.

          • DapperAnarchist
            DapperAnarchist
            June 22, 2013 at 5:28 am | #

            It seemed… normal. They talked, a date was arranged due to mutual assumed interests (for Joe, sex, for Joyce, marriage), date failed, Joe was angry about being punched, not about any failure to have sex.

        • maxh
          maxh
          June 24, 2013 at 3:14 am | #

          He does, however, suggest getting Joyce drunk to have sex with her.

          • DapperAnarchist
            DapperAnarchist
            June 26, 2013 at 4:58 am | #

            Oh crap yeah, I didn’t re-read first… Ok, that was creepy. But realistic, frankly.

  7. Tristan J
    Tristan J
    June 22, 2013 at 12:10 am | #

    I’m both genuinely moved by Joe’s observation and desperately hoping Joyce explodes at him next strip because that would be funny.

    • Yotomoe
      Yotomoe
      June 22, 2013 at 12:24 am | #

      I think her literally exploding would also be funny.

      • Wack'd
        Wack'd
        June 22, 2013 at 12:39 am | #

        Nah, that’s what we have Dina for. 😛

        • Mr. Random
          Mr. Random
          June 22, 2013 at 12:43 am | #

          I think she’d show up, stare, and explode, because she felt she had neglected her duties.

        • Yotomoe
          Yotomoe
          June 22, 2013 at 12:44 am | #

          But it’s never funny when Dina does it.

          • AsimovSideburns
            AsimovSideburns
            June 22, 2013 at 2:57 am | #

            It may not be funny, but it’s the best she can do.

  8. piemanpie24
    piemanpie24
    June 22, 2013 at 12:12 am | #

    I like how this shows the character development of Joyce. Earlier in the comic, she’d be slightly horrified at what Joe said. Now she’s just angry.

    • Jackson
      Jackson
      June 22, 2013 at 2:23 am | #

      Just slightly? In response to a remark like Joe’s, I’d think three-weeks-ago Joyce would be staring blankly ahead in soul-shocking dumbstruck horror!

      • Jon P
        Jon P
        June 22, 2013 at 8:54 am | #

        And confused, to boot! “How can there be different… positions?”

        • Luzahn
          Luzahn
          June 22, 2013 at 11:57 am | #

          Aw, now I’m actually interested in why Joyce isn’t doing Horror Face.

          I’d guess she expects this sort of thing from Joe. It’s not a mind-breaking revelation to learn that Joe likes the sex.

      • WebComicGeek11
        WebComicGeek11
        June 22, 2013 at 12:19 pm | #

        There probably would have been and exclamation of : “PRE-MARITAL HANKY-PANKY!”

  9. timemonkey
    timemonkey
    June 22, 2013 at 12:15 am | #

    I’m going to believe he picked up a couple from Danny.

    • Yotomoe
      Yotomoe
      June 22, 2013 at 12:25 am | #

      Like the “Whine”, the “Oblivious idiot” and of course the “Please be gentle!!!”.

      • ninja_jesus
        ninja_jesus
        June 22, 2013 at 5:16 am | #

        As long as he never uses the “Dan”, because apparently Daning things into the ground is a big turn-off.

    • Mal
      Mal
      June 23, 2013 at 2:45 pm | #

      He learned the DHAEI (Dry-Hump-an-Elvis-Impersonator).

  10. Sporky
    Sporky
    June 22, 2013 at 12:16 am | #

    Joyce’s expression in the last panel is aces.

    • Vivvav
      Vivvav
      June 22, 2013 at 12:31 am | #

      Your avatar is aces.

      • Totz the Plaid
        Totz the Plaid
        June 22, 2013 at 12:40 am | #

        Doo-be-doo-be-doo-bah…

        • Yotomoe
          Yotomoe
          June 22, 2013 at 12:44 am | #

          A-GENT P!

          • Aras Pabedinskas
            Aras Pabedinskas
            June 22, 2013 at 12:55 am | #

            DOOFENSCHIRMTZ EVIL INCORPORATED!

            • AsimovSideburns
              AsimovSideburns
              June 22, 2013 at 2:58 am | #

              Doof-enshmirtz Contin-uing ED CLASS!

  11. timemonkey
    timemonkey
    June 22, 2013 at 12:18 am | #

    Yeah Joyce, people like things you don’t, someday you’ll have to learn to live with it.

  12. Rex Hondo
    Rex Hondo
    June 22, 2013 at 12:21 am | #

    For Joe, life is a glorious Tap-it-stry.

    • some bad dude
      some bad dude
      June 22, 2013 at 7:12 am | #

      Can’t be unseen. Joe you punny bastard.

  13. Kernanator
    Kernanator
    June 22, 2013 at 12:21 am | #

    As always, Willis, your facial expressions are superb. That is the perfect supressing-the-urge-to-murder-everyone face.

  14. JepMZ
    JepMZ
    June 22, 2013 at 12:21 am | #

    Y’know, I was really compelled by the character development of Joyce, seeing her being conflicted by the relevations of the affect her new friends have on her that she literally is hurting inside, until I realized Joe was saying something, haha.

    And great job using Roz’s attitude to move foreward the storytelling!

  15. TheKelliestKelly
    TheKelliestKelly
    June 22, 2013 at 12:23 am | #

    I think this is my favorite strip of the entire series thus far. And I wish Leslie were real and taught at my college so I could take her gender studies class because she’s awesome.

    • vloophole
      vloophole
      June 22, 2013 at 12:35 am | #

      This is also my favorite strip, and so is the one before it, and the one before that, and the one before it before that before this….etc

  16. RaijinK
    RaijinK
    June 22, 2013 at 12:24 am | #

    Sixth panel: Joe and Roz high five.

    • Yotomoe
      Yotomoe
      June 22, 2013 at 12:28 am | #

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKNZC2S6T4c&t=1m55s

    • Dicrel Seijin
      Dicrel Seijin
      June 22, 2013 at 3:28 am | #

      Seventh panel:

      Joe: “It’s only fair I teach you as many as you taught me.”
      Roz: “Who says I taught you everything I know?”
      Joe: “Your place or mine?”
      Roz: “Both.”

      Eighth panel:
      (Joyce bolts out of her chair, runs away screaming.)

      Ninth panel:
      (Everyone stares aghast at Joe and Roz. Leslie is double face-palming.)

  17. Totz the Plaid
    Totz the Plaid
    June 22, 2013 at 12:37 am | #

    Update on the “Dexter and Monkey Master” synopses:

    I’m still working on them. They’ll be pretty short. Longer than the episode descriptions on a wikipedia article for a season of a show (example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adventure_Time_%28season_4%29 ) but very few will be more than just a few sentences.

    I should be done in the next day or two!

    • Yotomoe
      Yotomoe
      June 22, 2013 at 12:43 am | #

      yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay

  18. Uniqueantique
    Uniqueantique
    June 22, 2013 at 12:51 am | #

    Excellent observation! Leslie is a great teacher, hope she actually gets thru to Roz.
    Joe is just Joe..no words can describe him.
    Joyce is growing and it looks like it hurts.
    I do love the character development and the expressions drawn are fantastic.

    • Valdrax
      Valdrax
      June 22, 2013 at 2:04 pm | #

      I kind of consider Roz a lost front on the cause of learning that she doesn’t already know everything (at least at her current age — maybe not in the distant future).

      I’m just hopeful that she’s getting through to Joyce. Her words are affecting her, but I’m not sure in a positive way yet.

  19. munky
    munky
    June 22, 2013 at 2:19 am | #

    As crass as Joe might seem, I think it’s important and relevant that he’s exploring his awareness of his sexuality. I like that he doesn’t objectify or coerce women, and that he’s a supportive friend who tries to motivate Danny after his breakup. He’s a good guy.

    • sun tzu
      sun tzu
      June 22, 2013 at 3:44 am | #

      I’m not sure I’d qualify Joe as a good guy – dude can be a real asshole.
      I think part of Joe’s problem is a limited empathy – Joe can’t imagine something being important to anyone unless it’s important to him. Remember when Dorothy broke up with Danny, and Joe immediately discussed the possibility of having sex with her with Danny? Joe couldn’t imagine a breakup being a big deal, because it wouldn’t have been a big deal to him.

      • turbanous
        turbanous
        June 22, 2013 at 6:43 am | #

        I think that it’s unfair to label Joe as an asshole for how he handled Dorothy and Danny’s breakup. Joe is really good at reading people and he clearly saw the signs that the two of them were through.

        Since the two of them are so close Joe is able to give Danny more of a good natured ribbing to make light of the situation. If nothing else asking if Danny was subscribed to his “Do List” RSS feed is a way of pointing out that there are many other people out there for Danny.

        • Greenygal
          Greenygal
          June 22, 2013 at 7:52 pm | #

          Joe’s reaction to Danny’s girlfriend of several years breaking up with him–literally seconds afterward while it was still sinking in for Danny what had happened–was to congratulate himself on calling the exact time of the breakup and then rate Dorothy’s sexual attractiveness. He didn’t do that because he thought it would make Danny feel better (and good god, if he did it doesn’t say much for those people-reading skills!), he did it because he just didn’t care how Danny felt.

    • Valdrax
      Valdrax
      June 22, 2013 at 2:14 pm | #

      Doesn’t objectify women? Then what’s with the whole “make out” gestures and chant he does whenever he sees two women arguing?

      • munky
        munky
        June 22, 2013 at 2:52 pm | #

        Oh yeah, I’d forgotten about that. Good point

  20. Jackson
    Jackson
    June 22, 2013 at 2:24 am | #

    TOMORROW: Joyce learns that atheists can believe true things

  21. andiemus
    andiemus
    June 22, 2013 at 2:54 am | #

    Yeah, that’s all very well and good, but why did you preface that with “life isn’t binary”? That makes absolutely no sense with the rest of the sentence.

    • AsimovSideburns
      AsimovSideburns
      June 22, 2013 at 3:02 am | #

      Life isn’t binary (one or the other) just like gender isn’t binary–it’s a continuum ranging from completely female on one end to completely male on the other, but having infinite possibilities in between.

      Clarification: talking about gender identity, not physical sex male/female/etc.

      • Andiemus
        Andiemus
        June 22, 2013 at 6:44 am | #

        I know all that, but the rest of her spiel about learning something from everyone you meet has fuckall to do with that.

        • AHA
          AHA
          June 22, 2013 at 10:19 am | #

          She’s being a bit roundabout, but the point Leslie is trying to make is that Roz has a lot to learn from others and specifically about gender. Roz implied earlier that she knew everything about gender studies (don’t need the book) and that it boiled down to “women should be treated as equals.” Leslie is trying to gently mention that there are other genders while also giving the class a life lesson.

      • TJ Baltimore
        TJ Baltimore
        June 22, 2013 at 7:28 am | #

        So you know, physical/biological sex also isn’t a binary. You have male towards one end, female towards the other end, a bit of space past both of those ends, and a couple of intermediates. Things like chromosomal aneuploidy, genetic rearrangements and deletions, androgen insensitivity, etc. make things complicated. Sure, you can draw a line and say “If this person has a Y chromosome (or an SRY gene), that makes them male; if not, female”, but that grossly oversimplifies the fact that there are definite non-normative states. Creating a defining boundary out of thin air doesn’t necessarily reflect the underlying scientific reality.

        Personal source: the “Sex-determination and Differentiation” class in the “Organ Systems Physiology” course at Johns Hopkins School Medical, where I got a Master’s degree.

        • TJ Baltimore
          TJ Baltimore
          June 22, 2013 at 7:29 am | #

          ARGH! I meant “School of Medicine”. (There wasn’t any classes on proofreading.)

      • DapperAnarchist
        DapperAnarchist
        June 22, 2013 at 7:41 am | #

        Physical sex is also not binary. For most people, 95%+ in most communities, it is indeed either XX or XY, with female or male being the expression of that. However, there are a great many other chromosone setups, and a wide variety of physical expressions of those, from polysomy (up to, apparently, pentasomy, which is a combination of 5 Xs or Ys, usually something like XXXYY, and may be the rarest genetic state in humanity) to androgen insensitivity syndrome, which Caster Semenya MIGHT (it was reported in the news, but not sure if it was ever confirmed) have.

        • Totz the Plaid
          Totz the Plaid
          June 22, 2013 at 11:03 am | #

          Also: hermaphroditism. That blurs the line as well.

      • AsimovSideburns
        AsimovSideburns
        June 22, 2013 at 1:12 pm | #

        Sorry if this came off a bit condescending, it wasn’t supposed to.

        And I do realize sex isn’t binary, either (hence the “etc.”)

        I’m just not always at my best with phrasing right before I go to bed.

    • Jackson
      Jackson
      June 22, 2013 at 10:09 am | #

      Because things aren’t just black and white. Sure, Joyce is wrong about a lot of things, but that doesn’t mean Roz doesn’t have anything to learn from her.

      • David
        David M Willis
        June 22, 2013 at 10:12 am | #

        What Jackson said.

      • Andiemus
        Andiemus
        June 22, 2013 at 10:31 am | #

        She (black hair – Roz, i think?) hasn’t offered a dichotomy though. Saying “I know this topic like the back of my hand” isn’t black-and-white thinking, it’s just arrogance. In order for the word binary to make sense there needs to be an X and a Y she says “I know this shit” and her response is “you can learn something from anyone” which is perfectly valid but nonbinary-ness isn’t really related.

        • Jackson
          Jackson
          June 22, 2013 at 10:47 am | #

          Roz is Right because she thinks women and men are equal, so she can’t have anything else to learn because anything that is not Right like her must be Wrong.

        • raijink
          raijink
          June 22, 2013 at 10:52 am | #

          The ostensible binary is “right” and “wrong”. Roz is saying her worldview is right and dares Leslie to say it’s wrong. Leslie is explaining that you can be not wrong and still not be completely right. Hence not binary.

          • Andiemus
            Andiemus
            June 22, 2013 at 6:37 pm | #

            Ok, now it makes sense.

        • Valdrax
          Valdrax
          June 22, 2013 at 2:13 pm | #

          No, you’re right that that statement alone doesn’t not present a black-and-white dichotomy, but Roz clearly thinks in terms of Right and Wrong, with herself as Right. Leslie’s trying to pierce that bubble.

  22. Emoroffle
    Emoroffle
    June 22, 2013 at 3:16 am | #

    The gender binary sucks and so does Roz. LGBTMORELETTERS represent! (I represent the “T” specifically.)

    • Totz the Plaid
      Totz the Plaid
      June 22, 2013 at 5:02 am | #

      I sort-of represent ‘T’. I’m bi-gender trans. Psychologically more female than male, but comfortable in my male body.

      • Emoroffle
        Emoroffle
        June 22, 2013 at 6:03 am | #

        I’m a full on trans-lesbian. MTF for those who can’t figure it out.

        • Totz the Plaid
          Totz the Plaid
          June 22, 2013 at 11:01 am | #

          Because I’m bi-gender, I suppose I’m both a straight guy and a lesbian at the same time… *shrug*

  23. Drascin
    Drascin
    June 22, 2013 at 4:18 am | #

    Everyone is focusing on Joyce and Joe, but I seriously cringed at Roz’s remark in the first panel. “What does this have to do with Gender Studies”? Seriously, Roz? You can’t see how the progressive discovery and shaping of one’s viewpoints and beliefs could have something to do with gender studies?

  24. razama
    razama
    June 22, 2013 at 5:48 am | #

    Life is binary. Everything is a series of 0’s and 1’s.

    This is because we live in the Matrix.

  25. Cheryl
    Cheryl
    June 22, 2013 at 7:29 am | #

    Can i get a face palm! Gezz joe

  26. HeatPhoenix
    HeatPhoenix
    June 22, 2013 at 8:20 am | #

    Gender’s pretty fucking binary folk. XX… XY… (Pretending XXY is regular is pretending having 3 arms isn’t abnormal. I’m not sorry for hurt feelings but this is reality).

    • Cory
      Cory
      June 22, 2013 at 8:34 am | #

      I think you’re confused. Binary means “composed of two pieces or two parts”. The fact that there is more (even within XX and XY), no matter how common or uncommon, means it’s not a binary situation.

      That, and I’m pretty sure Willis wasn’t referring to X/Y chromosomes.

      • HeatPhoenix
        HeatPhoenix
        June 23, 2013 at 10:11 am | #

        I think the issue is that gender was asserted to not be binary and I meant sex.

    • timemonkey
      timemonkey
      June 22, 2013 at 8:39 am | #

      Because it’s totally okay to insult a group if there aren’t a lot of them.

      • HeatPhoenix
        HeatPhoenix
        June 23, 2013 at 10:11 am | #

        Buddy, that’s exactly not what I’m saying. “He doesn’t agree with me? HE MUST HATE MINORITIES” is kind of a stretch, ain’t it?

        • Kernanator
          Kernanator
          June 23, 2013 at 12:31 pm | #

          timemonkey is referring to how you insulted people that have XXY.

          • HeatPhoenix
            HeatPhoenix
            June 23, 2013 at 1:23 pm | #

            I did not mean to insult anyone. But to say that XXY is not irregular…

            • Kernanator
              Kernanator
              June 23, 2013 at 7:18 pm | #

              Being irregular is not the same thing as not existing. When you say something is binary, that means that there are ONLY two options.

              Also, an unintentional insult is still an insult.

              • HeatPhoenix
                HeatPhoenix
                June 24, 2013 at 7:14 pm | #

                Oh, like that. Well to take offense to THAT part of what I said is a bit much, isn’t it? It’s like me saying “Humans have 46 chromosomes” and then getting mad at me for not including people with less or more chromosomes saying I’m insulting them for not including them into my rather general statement? There’s me being wrong and there’s making a stretch.

    • David
      David M Willis
      June 22, 2013 at 10:02 am | #

      “Gender is binary! I’ll prove it by talking about what determines sex! And then I’ll say some really fucking condescending shit about reality, immediately after disproving myself even while talking about the wrong thing!”

      • HeatPhoenix
        HeatPhoenix
        June 23, 2013 at 10:15 am | #

        Thanks for impersonating me as an unreasonable ignorant fool. That sure showed me rather than all the other people showing me WHY I was wrong.

    • Jackson
      Jackson
      June 22, 2013 at 10:06 am | #

      Your gender isn’t your chromosomes, buddy.

      • HeatPhoenix
        HeatPhoenix
        June 23, 2013 at 10:08 am | #

        This is the entire point I’m trying to make.

        Yeah, it kinda is.

      • HeatPhoenix
        HeatPhoenix
        June 23, 2013 at 10:12 am | #

        After looking up gender and sex after being pointed out that I’m talking about the wrong I have to correct myself and apologize for getting it wrong. Gender ISN’T my chromosomes, that’s my sex. Fair enough.

    • Delirio
      Delirio
      June 22, 2013 at 11:10 am | #

      Like David said: Gender =/= (does ntot equal) Sex . XX and XY (female/male) or intersex chromosomal configurations differentiate physiological “Sex”, and more than whether it’s binary the thing about it is that it just IS: the chromosomes are there or they are not. But, OTOH “Gender” adds to that the dimension of psychological/social/behavioral/cultural constructs that surround and relate to sex: what you and others feel think and do about it and how it affects y’all. Biology is not destiny.

      • Lu86
        Lu86
        June 22, 2013 at 3:30 pm | #

        “Like David said: Gender =/= (does ntot equal) Sex”

        That’s very true. I’d much rather have sex than gender.

        • HeatPhoenix
          HeatPhoenix
          June 23, 2013 at 10:13 am | #

          I see that now. Thanks folks.

    • JustDucky
      JustDucky
      June 22, 2013 at 11:12 am | #

      Your statement that gender is binary isn’t just incorrect with regards to chromosomal combinations. There are also physical differences in the brains of trans folks that indicate that gender is an open ended set, not a binary. Here’s some of the current research:

      “These data suggest a pattern (in male to female transsexuals) of activation away from the biological sex, occupying an intermediate position with predominantly female-like features”

      http://cercor.oxfordjournals.org/content/18/8/1900.full.pdf

      The white matter in the brains of male-to-female transsexuals who have not yet begun hormone therapy mirrors the white matter in male brains rather than female brains.

      http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20032-transsexual-differences-caught-on-brain-scan.html?DCMP=OTC-rss&nsref=online-news#.UcOYvPlOB0o

      And then there’s this:

      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2754583/

      From the abstract:
      ” Results revealed that regional gray matter variation in MTF transsexuals is more similar to the pattern found in men than in women. However, MTF transsexuals show a significantly larger volume of regional gray matter in the right putamen compared to men. These findings provide new evidence that transsexualism is associated with distinct cerebral pattern, which supports the assumption that brain anatomy plays a role in gender identity.”

      From the results:
      “For each of 22 significantly different regions (twelve within the right hemisphere and ten within the left hemisphere), cluster-specific box plots were generated to illustrate the magnitude and direction of gray matter volume differences between groups (see supplement 1 and 2). Altogether, females had the largest gray matter volumes in all but two significant clusters, which were located in the left and right putamen. Here, MTF transsexuals had the largest gray matter volumes (see Fig. 1). For the remaining clusters, MTF transsexuals had the smallest gray matter volumes, but their data spectrum largely overlapped with that of males.”

      tl;dr –

      Dear HeatPhoenix,

      Nope.

      Kindest regards,
      Science

      • David
        David M Willis
        June 22, 2013 at 11:22 am | #

        Cosigned,
        Reality

        • HeatPhoenix
          HeatPhoenix
          June 23, 2013 at 10:20 am | #

          Regarding the little post down there asking you to moderate me, I’ve replied reasonably and calmly to everyone who replied to me. I hope you can see that and not think that I’m just “trolling” as the younguns’ like to say.

      • HeatPhoenix
        HeatPhoenix
        June 23, 2013 at 10:16 am | #

        I had no idea. Thanks for the crash course on gender. Regardless of the lynch mob I’m glad I made this comment since I got to learn a little bit today.

      • Raen
        Raen
        June 23, 2013 at 5:26 pm | #

        “The white matter in the brains of male-to-female transsexuals who have not yet begun hormone therapy mirrors the white matter in male female brains rather than female male brains.”

        Sorry – just pointing this out. I’m sure it’s just a typo, but trans women have female, not male brains, is the point.

        • DapperAnarchist
          DapperAnarchist
          June 26, 2013 at 5:06 am | #

          (late reply) – they MIGHT mean “brain of people with XY chromosomes who are trans”. We use the words “male” and “female” to mean gender all the time, but they mean sex – and while still being inaccurate, being binary, and sex isn’t binary, the binary gender terms are man and woman – hence transman and transwoman, not transmale or transfemale. The point of the study seems to be that trans people with xy chromosomes (assuming they tested for that accurately) have brains differing from cis people with the same chromosomes. Or have I misread it? I’m getting journal fatigue recently…

    • gangler
      gangler
      June 22, 2013 at 2:44 pm | #

      Numbers are pretty fucking binary. A… B… (pretending C is regular is pretending having an E before I isn’t abnormal. I’m sorry to hurt feelings but this is reality.)

      • HeatPhoenix
        HeatPhoenix
        June 23, 2013 at 10:18 am | #

        Numbers are binary and then you say letters while parodying my post. I’m sorry, I don’t think I get what you’re getting at, friend.

    • nothri
      nothri
      June 22, 2013 at 4:10 pm | #

      I have nothing to add with regards to the topic of chromosomes or being transgender (and frankly, it looks like people way smarter than me have already curbstomped HeatPhoenix with the power of science and logic, so what more could I add?). I’d just like to say how wonderful it is to see a real time demonstration how much the kind, intelligent people of this community outnumber the odd bigot. Does my heart good and makes me a little teary eyed thinking about it. You guys rock!

      • HeatPhoenix
        HeatPhoenix
        June 23, 2013 at 10:14 am | #

        I had no idea a calm and logical discussion in which prove and evidence is provided to prove the contrary to my assertion involved me being “curbstomped” and me being a “bigot”. Excuse me.

    • Kamino Neko
      Kamino Neko
      June 22, 2013 at 4:22 pm | #

      Confusion about sex/gender aside, you’re also laughably ignorant about biological sex determination – Klinefelter’s is far from the only XY aneuploidy – nor do most aneuploidies break the standard sex determination rules.

      However, there are conditions not linked to the sex chromosomes that can effect sexual anatomy. One of the most startling being Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome, where the person is completely phenotypically female, despite having an XY karyotype. (Also, they almost invariably identify as heterosexual women – AFAIK, there are only two known cases of a CAIS individual identifying as men, and CAIS women are lesbians less often than XX women (who are themselves lesbians less often than trans women).)

      • HeatPhoenix
        HeatPhoenix
        June 23, 2013 at 10:18 am | #

        Since I’m “laughably ignorant” would you have any places you could hook me up to reading more about this subject? Being “laughably ignorant” is not something I take pleasure in being. Thanks.

        • Kamino Neko
          Kamino Neko
          June 23, 2013 at 11:32 pm | #

          As far as online resources go, this is a good start. It’s very basic, but it’ll give you an idea.

          Wikipedia’s articles on various intersex conditions are also pretty good, at least to the extent that I’ve actually read through them, and excluding the ones that are stubs (most of the ones for abnormal sex-determining chromosome configurations other than XXY, X0, XXX, and XYY).

    • Raen
      Raen
      June 23, 2013 at 5:28 pm | #

      I’ve got to say, I’m rather astounded how quickly HeatPhoenix changed their tune. It’s something one doesn’t often see.

      • HeatPhoenix
        HeatPhoenix
        June 23, 2013 at 5:56 pm | #

        I’m not the kind of person that doesn’t admit when they’re wrong. 🙂

  27. sandbridgekid
    sandbridgekid
    June 22, 2013 at 9:39 am | #

    Walky-San, when you resurface from Transformers’ Fan Paradise, your sys-op judgement moderator skills are required. See above.

    • David
      David M Willis
      June 22, 2013 at 11:38 am | #

      I think it kind of took care of itself.

    • David
      David M Willis
      June 22, 2013 at 11:38 am | #

      Also that’s next weekend.

  28. Paul1963
    Paul1963
    June 22, 2013 at 10:12 am | #

    I love it when Joyce is mortified/horrified/shocked/disgusted.

  29. Tom T.
    Tom T.
    June 22, 2013 at 11:26 am | #

    Why does Joyce have a Band-Aid on her arm?

    • Yotomoe
      Yotomoe
      June 22, 2013 at 11:35 am | #

      Flu shot. A month or so ago for us, This Morning for Joyce.

  30. Animal
    Animal
    June 22, 2013 at 12:14 pm | #

    Seventeen.

    Heh.

    Amateurs.

    • TurtlyLooker
      TurtlyLooker
      June 22, 2013 at 7:36 pm | #

      Seventeen, in a semester.
      He now knows every position known to man, and several known to mammals native to the ocean.

  31. Aaron Bourque
    Aaron Bourque
    June 22, 2013 at 1:08 pm | #

    Thanks Joe. You’ve pierced to the heart of the matter.

    Or in terms you’d understand, penetrated to the . . . ovaries? I’ve lost the metaphor.

  32. Bizze
    Bizze
    June 22, 2013 at 1:17 pm | #

    Joe’s life may be a glorious tapestry, but Joyce looks more like a tapestry of quiet desperation. She, like Brock before her, needs a transgendered spirit mentor to reassure her. How appropriate to the class’ discussion!

    • quietdevious1
      quietdevious1
      June 22, 2013 at 6:37 pm | #

      <3
      Way off topic, but does anybody know where I can get the Venture Bros holiday specials in Canada? I haven't seen the last Halloween one and from what I've heard something really important happens.

  33. Concerned Citizen
    Concerned Citizen
    June 22, 2013 at 2:27 pm | #

    I wonder how Joyce would react to meeting an openly trans* person.

    • Kamino Neko
      Kamino Neko
      June 22, 2013 at 3:27 pm | #

      Probably confusion, more than anything else, while she tried to figure out how it jived with her worldview.

      • Somebody
        Somebody
        June 23, 2013 at 1:03 am | #

        I’m not even fundamentalist and I still don’t understand.

  34. Kitty
    Kitty
    June 22, 2013 at 2:37 pm | #

    dammit Joe, Joyce almost had a moment there!

  35. Somebody
    Somebody
    June 22, 2013 at 4:01 pm | #

    Would everyone stop with the stupid std comments? Even if it’s a joke, it isn’t original or funny. Condoms don’t always remove the risk entirely, but it significantly lowers it. Just having sex doesn’t magically create disease either.

  36. PinkiePiecrust
    PinkiePiecrust
    June 22, 2013 at 5:17 pm | #

    I think I just fell in love with Leslie.
    I would aspire to be a teacher like her.

  37. LadySol
    LadySol
    June 22, 2013 at 9:37 pm | #

    Took me a while to figure out that Joe was the one speaking there since his mouth wasn’t open at all. Joyce’s expression clued me in though.

    • Narf
      Narf
      June 26, 2013 at 1:34 am | #

      The speech balloon leading directly to Joe’s mouth didn’t clue you in?

  38. SgtNumnum
    SgtNumnum
    October 12, 2013 at 11:09 am | #

    Once again Joe ruins everything

  39. TheOthin
    TheOthin
    February 2, 2014 at 11:30 am | #

    Wait he’s been there HOW many days?

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