…why did I have a feeling this was gonna happen XD
everybody bust out their bingo cards, buckets of popcorn and/or blast shields and brace yourselves for another Very Normal comments section!
Mm. Not sure I like Danny being upset that his lifelong best friend was cheated on by his ex being just kind of played off as a joke, but maybe he’s storming off to yell at Dorothy. This was one of the big reactions I was looking forward to and I feel let down. I feel like Danny should be more concerned with how his friend was hurt than how it looks for bisexual people.
This has been a recurring problem with this storyline for me as well. It feels like Willis really wants every/every other strip to end with a “gag”, but it doesn’t really fit the seemingly serious tone of what’s going on.
Or perhaps it is more that *we* view it, that is to say, the whole situation, as something to be taken seriously, whereas the narrative doesn’t beyond the reactions of certain specific characters (Joe, Becky, Dina). I’m not sure.
If you subscribe to the DoA patreon, you can view some of the early drafts of strips with commentary, even without going into a paid tier – I recall for the scene where Joyce and Dorothy finally kiss, Willis had a moment of being swept up by the momentum of what the characters would do (rather than the plans he had for the scene) and realized that rather than them kissing and going “hm! well! that’s not great” and going back to their boyfriends and forgetting about it… oops this is kinda symbolically a marriage proposal.
So I think this storyline of Joyce and Dorothy actually getting together being somewhat pushed forward by spur-of-the-moment momentum kinda explains some of the pacing issues, maybe?
Dot
Yes, that’s old news, but I’m more concerned with characterization than pacing here.
mads_in_zero
I think it makes sense, Danny’s in his newly-out, “making atrocious bi puns” era of being bi, so that this is where his mind immediately jumps to is in-character, I feel.
But this is what the comic IS: somewhere between a story and a gag at the end of the strip. The very frequency tells you that. And no, some joke are not going to land well with some people sometimes.
I thought “Great Bores of Today” was hilarious until I found the one that was essentially me. It’s funny to me now to tell that story, tho! But the series was making fun of people, so what can one expect?
So.
If gag strips are distressing, why not go for comics that don’t do it? I’m here for the art and the laughs and now and then the lump in the throat.
Queer identity is kind of a big thing, I guess, especially among people who are only just discovering it. It’s not the best ever look for Danny but I’m willing to give him a pass especially since he’s been a good egg for a while.
And it’s not like Danny hasn’t made it about him in horribly inappropriate moments in the past. It’s what tanked his budding relationship with Ethan, after all.
Throwatron
Yeah, this is a blind spot that Danny has shown before, and he was definitely the cast member most “due” to do something ridiculously stupid and impulsive.
If I were to give the benefit of the doubt here I’d say this is obviously a joke beat and that there’s plenty of potential and narrative room for Danny to return and be more supportive later. This will not be their last interaction and sometimes comedy can reframe the situation as not being as bad if jokes are being made.
Dot:
Yeah, lets go be angry at Dorothy. She just wanted, and only even acknowledged that because Joe spelled it out. Joyce made the opening bid, joyce made the running, Joyce married Dorothy when Dorothy was trying to have a heroic moment. Dorothy said repeatedly that they had to tell their boyfriends.
Dorothy’s also the only one really feeling any guilt about any of it, while Joyce was actively throwing Joe under the bus and rewriting her history with Dorothy as the greatest and most heroic love story ever told.
I read it as Danny being legit upset for Joe. But when Joe’s like ”Nah, I told her to”, Danny doesn’t know what to do with those feelings and redirects them into the second part of his reaction (which is frustration/dissapointment with Dorothy for her going against what he told her when they spoke about it).
Hm. Additionally, maybe it’s just me, but; I feel having like reacting to having one’s upset feelings be shown to be based on a misunderstanding of a situation by doubling down on a joke, is a normal/common/natural reaction, isn’t it? D:
Okay, pack it in everyone. Willis says we can’t criticize their favorite ship anymore. If you have any gripes about how Jorothy came to be you’re basically no different then Danny the Strawman over here.
Obviously Mx. Willis has their thumb on the scale in favor of DoJo as a ship – which is their prerogative – but I think this is an uncharitable read of this strip.
I find it less funny when it is accompanied by Joe essentially taking responsibility for Dorothy’s decision to cheat.
Like sure, Willis can write whatever story they want. But I think it is a bad move to have Joe be totally accepting of being cheated on, and to even think it was his fault.
If Willis wanted to do an arc where Joe was totally accepting it would have been soooo easy to do that just by having Joyce talk to him first. Incredibly easy.
So far it seems like the fact that Joyce cheated on Joe is entirely irrelevant to the plot. It effects basically nothing. And that feels fake. It feels like someone wanted to write in “cheating” for the drama but then didn’t want to actually deal with the fact that it would make the protagonists kind of shitty people… so they walked back any and all realistic consequences so the only people remotely upset are tertiary to the violation of trust.
StClair
Yeah. Waiting to see where this goes next, but… yeah. :(
NGPZ
… Joyce and Dorothy themselves said they realized they lost basically all their friends when they talked to Asma???
for reals tho they had better been SERIOUS about bowling night! D:<
Thag Simmons
I broadly am not enjoying the Doyce pairing or this story arc, and I don’t expect that to change.
But Joe’s behaviour is obviously, clearly, delusional cope because the alternative is heartbreak. I have no idea how Willis is going to resolve that, but they are clearly doing something with it.
Armadillo
I get where you’re coming from, though I will say that the recent interaction between Joe and Dina gave me the feeling that this is going to lead to more character development for Joe. This is basically a new flaw that he has picked up as a result of all the work he’s done to sort himself out emotionally; he’s overcorrected in his attempts to grow. He’s gone from being careless about his actions to focusing so much on holding himself accountable that he’s blaming himself even when he’s been wronged. Which has led to him enabling some shitty behavior. I’m remaining hopeful that this will be treated as yet another flaw that he needs to overcome on his path to maturity.
… Though I think Willis has waited too damn long to show any sign of accountability for Joyce, so hope is dwindling fast on that front.
Thing 2
Not being snotty here, but it has ‘effected’ (made happen) quite a lot of things, whereas I think you are more likely to mean ‘affected’ (caused change to). But please correct me if you did mean effected and you thing nothing has happened.
clif
Odo, I think you have a fundamental misconception. For Joe to think it was his fault he would have to believe that someone did something wrong.
pretty sure danny is doing this as a defense mechanism because he, as a character in the story, has emotional stakes in the current situation and is (poorly) attempting to make it seem bad in a way that isn’t revealing of his longstanding emotional baggage
Yeah, I just figured it was a call-back to the very last thing him and Dorothy talked about and he was slightly offended at her assuming he would engage in cheating behaviour because he was bi. Then what does Dorothy do shortly after talking to him and discovering she was bi…?
Armadillo
Glad you mentioned that because I completely forgot that conversation. Dorothy really did just completely ignore what Danny told her. Which I suppose was obvious from how that conversation ended.
Thing 2
Oh well done. You folks who have an actual infactual intact memory!
It has something to do with the fact that it is immediately undercut by Joe.
The reason why cheating is bad is because it is a violation of trust. Then we have Joe, the victim of the cheating, saying “It’s all good. Actually it was my decision” which undermines the entire basis for the cheating being bad in the first place. Instead of having harm we just have the theoretical potential for harm.
So Danny is saying something perfectly reasonable, but the universe is conspiring to excuse Joyce and Dorothy anyway.
Thing 2
In my humble opinion, there is nothing to excuse, and I’m not the only one. So, really, universe, or just some people?
He definitely pushed Dorothy to get her shit figured out. I don’t think he really anticipated this exact sequence of events, and him trying to act like he did is him coping.
Maybe you should try believing Joe when he says, explicitly and repeatedly, that he was deliberately trying to get Joyce Dorothy. He’s said in the past that he believes that wingman is the highest calling. (I can’t find the strip right now; it’s not the one called “Wingman”, though that’s also relevant.) He’s just being wingman for his girlfriend, like a good Joe.
Dot
Yes, again, as I specifically said, he was trying to get Dorothy to figure her shit out, and probably expected that he might have to share Joyce with her – he told Joyce as much, by way of saying that he wanted her to have what she wanted. Did he expect they’d just go off and kiss before actually having a conversation? Did he expect Joyce would cheat on him in that way? I think that’s a lot less clear!
Odo
I mean… I’m certainly open to the possibility. I even think it might be a probability at this point. I just think it would be bad writing to do it that way.
Coping is much more interesting. It gives the cheating actual stakes because it would mean Joe was actually harmed by it. It gives something for the narrative to unravel. How will Joe realize that he’s hurt? What will happen when he does?
Instead we have a whole lot of nothing.
Thag Simmons
I don’t want Joe to have succeeded at being a wingman. Joe being a garbage wingman is an important character trait that should be preserved.
Sirksome
Meh. I don’t know if I buy that. I respect Joe’s sentiment but in the moment it reads more like he was being supportive because they both like the same person and that Joyce is a great person worth loving. Not saying “Hey you should go steal my girlfriend.”
—— https://www.dumbingofage.com/comic/suggestion/
——-
Also I just hate it because it robs a ton of agency and consequence from one of the comics biggest moments. Over a decade of build up to Joyce and Dorothy but really it was Joe with the last minute push that made it happen. I’d prefer it be cope.
“But when are Dorothy and Joyce gonna do it?!”
“‘Do it’? Danny, I’m not a republic serial villain, do you seriously think I’d be alone masterstroking if there remained the slightest chance of you affecting its outcome? She did Dorothy thirty-five minutes ago”
It’s biphobia from Danny in the same way the Dorothy/Joyce kiss at the protest was problematic: Metatextually.
But also Danny and Dorothy had a conversation (maaaan I hope the multi-character tagging is fixed soon, so I can find it) where Dorothy raised the possibility that being bisexual might lead to cheating and Danny got kind of mad at it. That’s why he wasn’t complaining about biphobia that Joyce cheated, it’s Dorothy specifically doing it right after their conversation that’s setting him off.
But that’s Dorothy not being moral, not Dorothy being biphobic? Ah or is it that basically the biphobia is Dorothy assuming he’s a cheater because he’s bi, but I still don’t see how this has any relevance to what’s happening now
Sirksome
It kind of doesn’t which I think is part of the joke of this strip. The relevancy only really being Danny warning of the biphobic cheating stereotype and Dorothy reinforcing that.
Throwatron
Exactly what Sirksome said. Danny doesn’t immediately have a good explanation to externalize for his complex feelings on what has occurred, since neither Sal nor Joe are privy to his prior conversation with Dorothy, so he blurts out the closest thing he can think of for why he’s so mad at Dorothy right now, even if it doesn’t make much sense. Classic set-up for a non-sequitur punchline,
105 thoughts on “Threeway”
NGPZ
…why did I have a feeling this was gonna happen XD
everybody bust out their bingo cards, buckets of popcorn and/or blast shields and brace yourselves for another Very Normal comments section!
Pocky
Joe really set himself up this whole arc lol
AshleyMagica
I chuckled. That is all.
poofdepoof
Same
Thing 2
Bwahahahaha, indeed. Comic is way behind the comments with this joke!
shadowcell
alternately, Dumbing of Age Book 16: Making the Rest of Us Look Bad
Jo_cubstar
Damn, beat me to that exact comment lol
clif
Dumbing of Age Book 16: Yeah, Dorothy
Dot
Mm. Not sure I like Danny being upset that his lifelong best friend was cheated on by his ex being just kind of played off as a joke, but maybe he’s storming off to yell at Dorothy. This was one of the big reactions I was looking forward to and I feel let down. I feel like Danny should be more concerned with how his friend was hurt than how it looks for bisexual people.
Prince Mech
This has been a recurring problem with this storyline for me as well. It feels like Willis really wants every/every other strip to end with a “gag”, but it doesn’t really fit the seemingly serious tone of what’s going on.
Or perhaps it is more that *we* view it, that is to say, the whole situation, as something to be taken seriously, whereas the narrative doesn’t beyond the reactions of certain specific characters (Joe, Becky, Dina). I’m not sure.
mads_in_zero
If you subscribe to the DoA patreon, you can view some of the early drafts of strips with commentary, even without going into a paid tier – I recall for the scene where Joyce and Dorothy finally kiss, Willis had a moment of being swept up by the momentum of what the characters would do (rather than the plans he had for the scene) and realized that rather than them kissing and going “hm! well! that’s not great” and going back to their boyfriends and forgetting about it… oops this is kinda symbolically a marriage proposal.
So I think this storyline of Joyce and Dorothy actually getting together being somewhat pushed forward by spur-of-the-moment momentum kinda explains some of the pacing issues, maybe?
Dot
Yes, that’s old news, but I’m more concerned with characterization than pacing here.
mads_in_zero
I think it makes sense, Danny’s in his newly-out, “making atrocious bi puns” era of being bi, so that this is where his mind immediately jumps to is in-character, I feel.
Thing 2
But this is what the comic IS: somewhere between a story and a gag at the end of the strip. The very frequency tells you that. And no, some joke are not going to land well with some people sometimes.
I thought “Great Bores of Today” was hilarious until I found the one that was essentially me. It’s funny to me now to tell that story, tho! But the series was making fun of people, so what can one expect?
So.
If gag strips are distressing, why not go for comics that don’t do it? I’m here for the art and the laughs and now and then the lump in the throat.
Nono
Queer identity is kind of a big thing, I guess, especially among people who are only just discovering it. It’s not the best ever look for Danny but I’m willing to give him a pass especially since he’s been a good egg for a while.
Manticore
And it’s not like Danny hasn’t made it about him in horribly inappropriate moments in the past. It’s what tanked his budding relationship with Ethan, after all.
Throwatron
Yeah, this is a blind spot that Danny has shown before, and he was definitely the cast member most “due” to do something ridiculously stupid and impulsive.
Doctor_Who
A good egg, but slightly cracked.
apocryphascribe
Well damn, my “Walky and Joe don’t actually have any real friends looking out for them” opinion keeps getting more proof by the day. A shame, really.
Dot
It’s times like these one begins missing Mike
flake
man, if mike came back, that would make everything worth it ngl
Sirksome
If I were to give the benefit of the doubt here I’d say this is obviously a joke beat and that there’s plenty of potential and narrative room for Danny to return and be more supportive later. This will not be their last interaction and sometimes comedy can reframe the situation as not being as bad if jokes are being made.
Thing 2
Dot:
Yeah, lets go be angry at Dorothy. She just wanted, and only even acknowledged that because Joe spelled it out. Joyce made the opening bid, joyce made the running, Joyce married Dorothy when Dorothy was trying to have a heroic moment. Dorothy said repeatedly that they had to tell their boyfriends.
Sirksome
Dorothy’s also the only one really feeling any guilt about any of it, while Joyce was actively throwing Joe under the bus and rewriting her history with Dorothy as the greatest and most heroic love story ever told.
Kim
I read it as Danny being legit upset for Joe. But when Joe’s like ”Nah, I told her to”, Danny doesn’t know what to do with those feelings and redirects them into the second part of his reaction (which is frustration/dissapointment with Dorothy for her going against what he told her when they spoke about it).
Hm. Additionally, maybe it’s just me, but; I feel having like reacting to having one’s upset feelings be shown to be based on a misunderstanding of a situation by doubling down on a joke, is a normal/common/natural reaction, isn’t it? D:
Astariel
Well, I’m relieved that the preview panel of Danny storming out the room didn’t turn out to be him being mad at Sal about something.
jeffepp
He’s going to find Ethan, right now, for reasons.
Cameron Stone
Okay, pack it in everyone. Willis says we can’t criticize their favorite ship anymore. If you have any gripes about how Jorothy came to be you’re basically no different then Danny the Strawman over here.
Dot
Obviously Mx. Willis has their thumb on the scale in favor of DoJo as a ship – which is their prerogative – but I think this is an uncharitable read of this strip.
Cameron Stone
Who said it was a charity? I run a for-profit comment section thank you very much!
Taffy
I will never pay you even one (1) penny (cent) for this. You are a swindler and a fraud.
clif
Your first comment makes me think you have no sense of humor, and your second comment makes me think you do.
NGPZ
R.I.P. good faith, we dont even know where Danny is going rn
Thag Simmons
I think it’s mostly just a funny self-deprecating joke.
Odo
I find it less funny when it is accompanied by Joe essentially taking responsibility for Dorothy’s decision to cheat.
Like sure, Willis can write whatever story they want. But I think it is a bad move to have Joe be totally accepting of being cheated on, and to even think it was his fault.
If Willis wanted to do an arc where Joe was totally accepting it would have been soooo easy to do that just by having Joyce talk to him first. Incredibly easy.
So far it seems like the fact that Joyce cheated on Joe is entirely irrelevant to the plot. It effects basically nothing. And that feels fake. It feels like someone wanted to write in “cheating” for the drama but then didn’t want to actually deal with the fact that it would make the protagonists kind of shitty people… so they walked back any and all realistic consequences so the only people remotely upset are tertiary to the violation of trust.
StClair
Yeah. Waiting to see where this goes next, but… yeah. :(
NGPZ
… Joyce and Dorothy themselves said they realized they lost basically all their friends when they talked to Asma???
for reals tho they had better been SERIOUS about bowling night! D:<
Thag Simmons
I broadly am not enjoying the Doyce pairing or this story arc, and I don’t expect that to change.
But Joe’s behaviour is obviously, clearly, delusional cope because the alternative is heartbreak. I have no idea how Willis is going to resolve that, but they are clearly doing something with it.
Armadillo
I get where you’re coming from, though I will say that the recent interaction between Joe and Dina gave me the feeling that this is going to lead to more character development for Joe. This is basically a new flaw that he has picked up as a result of all the work he’s done to sort himself out emotionally; he’s overcorrected in his attempts to grow. He’s gone from being careless about his actions to focusing so much on holding himself accountable that he’s blaming himself even when he’s been wronged. Which has led to him enabling some shitty behavior. I’m remaining hopeful that this will be treated as yet another flaw that he needs to overcome on his path to maturity.
… Though I think Willis has waited too damn long to show any sign of accountability for Joyce, so hope is dwindling fast on that front.
Thing 2
Not being snotty here, but it has ‘effected’ (made happen) quite a lot of things, whereas I think you are more likely to mean ‘affected’ (caused change to). But please correct me if you did mean effected and you thing nothing has happened.
clif
Odo, I think you have a fundamental misconception. For Joe to think it was his fault he would have to believe that someone did something wrong.
lilith
pretty sure danny is doing this as a defense mechanism because he, as a character in the story, has emotional stakes in the current situation and is (poorly) attempting to make it seem bad in a way that isn’t revealing of his longstanding emotional baggage
rich
chances are this strip was written months before Willis ever even saw any of the criticism
Thing 2
Making this all the funnier, if so?
RassilonTDavros
Uhhhh I’m not sure if Danny is actually intended to be particularly in the wrong here?
RexLatro
Yeah, I just figured it was a call-back to the very last thing him and Dorothy talked about and he was slightly offended at her assuming he would engage in cheating behaviour because he was bi. Then what does Dorothy do shortly after talking to him and discovering she was bi…?
Armadillo
Glad you mentioned that because I completely forgot that conversation. Dorothy really did just completely ignore what Danny told her. Which I suppose was obvious from how that conversation ended.
Thing 2
Oh well done. You folks who have an actual infactual intact memory!
apricot
i like Danny tho
C.T. Phipps
I think it’s hilarious we assume Danny making the argument renders it invalid.
:D
Odo
It has something to do with the fact that it is immediately undercut by Joe.
The reason why cheating is bad is because it is a violation of trust. Then we have Joe, the victim of the cheating, saying “It’s all good. Actually it was my decision” which undermines the entire basis for the cheating being bad in the first place. Instead of having harm we just have the theoretical potential for harm.
So Danny is saying something perfectly reasonable, but the universe is conspiring to excuse Joyce and Dorothy anyway.
Thing 2
In my humble opinion, there is nothing to excuse, and I’m not the only one. So, really, universe, or just some people?
apocryphascribe
Come on now, that doesn’t seem like a fair read.
Bill Erak
Joe has a point. He did basically tell Dotty to do it.
Dot
He definitely pushed Dorothy to get her shit figured out. I don’t think he really anticipated this exact sequence of events, and him trying to act like he did is him coping.
John Campbell
Maybe you should try believing Joe when he says, explicitly and repeatedly, that he was deliberately trying to get Joyce Dorothy. He’s said in the past that he believes that wingman is the highest calling. (I can’t find the strip right now; it’s not the one called “Wingman”, though that’s also relevant.) He’s just being wingman for his girlfriend, like a good Joe.
Dot
Yes, again, as I specifically said, he was trying to get Dorothy to figure her shit out, and probably expected that he might have to share Joyce with her – he told Joyce as much, by way of saying that he wanted her to have what she wanted. Did he expect they’d just go off and kiss before actually having a conversation? Did he expect Joyce would cheat on him in that way? I think that’s a lot less clear!
Odo
I mean… I’m certainly open to the possibility. I even think it might be a probability at this point. I just think it would be bad writing to do it that way.
Coping is much more interesting. It gives the cheating actual stakes because it would mean Joe was actually harmed by it. It gives something for the narrative to unravel. How will Joe realize that he’s hurt? What will happen when he does?
Instead we have a whole lot of nothing.
Thag Simmons
I don’t want Joe to have succeeded at being a wingman. Joe being a garbage wingman is an important character trait that should be preserved.
Sirksome
Meh. I don’t know if I buy that. I respect Joe’s sentiment but in the moment it reads more like he was being supportive because they both like the same person and that Joyce is a great person worth loving. Not saying “Hey you should go steal my girlfriend.”
——
https://www.dumbingofage.com/comic/suggestion/
——-
Also I just hate it because it robs a ton of agency and consequence from one of the comics biggest moments. Over a decade of build up to Joyce and Dorothy but really it was Joe with the last minute push that made it happen. I’d prefer it be cope.
Fail Earnhardt
“This was my plan all along” I say, after biting my hand to hold back the tears
StClair
“I’m fine.”
: )
“You’re… fine.”
“I’m fine.” -_-
SaffronComic
“But when are Dorothy and Joyce gonna do it?!”
“‘Do it’? Danny, I’m not a republic serial villain, do you seriously think I’d be alone masterstroking if there remained the slightest chance of you affecting its outcome? She did Dorothy thirty-five minutes ago”
Throwatron
Also, twenty-five minutes ago. And fifteen. As for five minutes ago? Well, Danny, I think you know the answer to that.
km
I don’t get how it’s biphobia from the perspective of Danny
SaffronComic
It’s biphobia from Danny in the same way the Dorothy/Joyce kiss at the protest was problematic: Metatextually.
But also Danny and Dorothy had a conversation (maaaan I hope the multi-character tagging is fixed soon, so I can find it) where Dorothy raised the possibility that being bisexual might lead to cheating and Danny got kind of mad at it. That’s why he wasn’t complaining about biphobia that Joyce cheated, it’s Dorothy specifically doing it right after their conversation that’s setting him off.
Km
But that’s Dorothy not being moral, not Dorothy being biphobic? Ah or is it that basically the biphobia is Dorothy assuming he’s a cheater because he’s bi, but I still don’t see how this has any relevance to what’s happening now
Sirksome
It kind of doesn’t which I think is part of the joke of this strip. The relevancy only really being Danny warning of the biphobic cheating stereotype and Dorothy reinforcing that.
Throwatron
Exactly what Sirksome said. Danny doesn’t immediately have a good explanation to externalize for his complex feelings on what has occurred, since neither Sal nor Joe are privy to his prior conversation with Dorothy, so he blurts out the closest thing he can think of for why he’s so mad at Dorothy right now, even if it doesn’t make much sense. Classic set-up for a non-sequitur punchline,
RassilonTDavros
Seconded on the multi-tag search thingy.
Dark_T_Zeratul