Discussion (158) ¬
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April Wolfe @aprilwolfe.bsky.social ⋅ 1h
David M Willis! @damnyouwillis.bsky.social ⋅ 10d
LorennaCleary.bsky.social @lorennacleary.bsky.social ⋅ 1d
Al Ewing Writes Comics @al-ewing.bsky.social ⋅ 2d
Gwen @finalgwen.bsky.social ⋅ 1d
Michael P. Breen @mpbreen21.bsky.social ⋅ 3d
Katie C @spiffykt.bsky.social ⋅ 2d
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“well Tristan’s a tall glass of water”
But does his voice give him super strength?
He’s been thinking about changing it.
What?! Change your voice!? That’s imposssibbble!
Hate to break this for Joyce but he’s more interested in Serenity.
That depends on what hormones your body is on!
That panel is a…tall order for a book title.
(By which I mean, Joyce in panel 4.)
It might make for a good song verse though.
“What are you looking for, exactly?” could be a good option!
Dumbing of Age Book 9: *see page 68, strip 2, panel 4
That *is* a tall order.
Poor Joyce.
“Have you ever considered switching to Buddhism?”
Or Folger’s Crystals? “We secretly replaced Joyce’s church with dark, rich Folger’s Crystals. Do you think she’ll notice the difference?”
Go big or go home, Joyce.
Go big, since you can’t go home.
Then maybe just go back to bed.
That was her plan A.
“O lost, and by the wind grieved, ghost, come back again.”
Damn, now Joyce has to actively decline church instead of just sleeping in and acting like it’s not on her mind.
For those who don’t want Joyce to go the atheist route, Lucy’s church may be a good alternate. Perhaps. We’ll see.
I hope Joyce gives Lucy’s church a shot. So much of Joyce’s life and being has been based around church and god, this crisis of faith is really ripping into her. If Joyce does leave church for good (which I doubt) I’d like her to experience actually kind places before doing so.
I’d like to see Joyce try Lucy’s church, but I also wouldn’t mind if she eventually goes the atheist route. It’s not that bad a route to take.
Oh true, I’m an atheist myself. I just don’t really see her going from super religious to atheist in the space of a semester or two (or however long the webcomic covers). Having doubts, sure, but not full on non-belief.
Plus, Joyce hasn’t exactly had a lot of experience with different types of churches/religions. Finding out choices she has, over the (fundy? evangelical?) one she was raised with, would be great!
One of Joyce’s problems is that her religious understanding isn’t very deep. As she says here, it’s mostly social and emotional. She’s got her theological hangups, but her concerns about those pale next to her need for the familiar. If the church has folding chairs, electric guitars, grape juice and Jesus in a blue sash, she’ll be fine.
At the same time, what she has absorbed of what they taught seems to be more hot button political issues than theological differences – gender roles, sex, evolution. But her indoctrination has tied those tightly to her faith. She’s said how if evolution is true, then everything else is a lie.
I’m not really sure how she’d do looking for a new church, since her emotional reaction is likely to overwhelm any more intellectual analysis of doctrine, but the doctrine’s likely to conflict with what she’s learning outside of church. She could just stumble into a hippie church with the right asthetic, I suppose. That’s probably her best chance to stay religious.
Course of a semester? I went from Catholic to agnostic to atheist in a week. At age 14. When irrational beliefs start to collapse, they can go down in a cloud of dust like a dynamited building.
I became atheistic-agnostic 4 LYFE at like age 8 after throwing myself at the ground and knocking the wind out of myself, passing out with absolutely no vision of the afterlife or any of that noise, and realising I would have just stayed in that nothingness if not for my mother reviving me
SLIP ‘N’ SLIDE DISPROVED GOD
(not a “you just weren’t dead long enough” thing, either, I’ve relived that every time I pass out, which is a lot more often now I have to have regular grown up doctor appointments and shit)
Whether or not she is on the path to atheism, it might be nice to find a church that’s less dogmatic and judgmental. If she finds one that fits her new conscience, perfect – if she finds atheism fits her conscience – perfect.
But yes, it can be very scary to get rid of what you’ve believed all your life. As thejeff said, there’s so much emotional anchoring involved, Joyce needs the familiar.
Some of the feeling just sticks with you. “There is none like you“ is singing itself in my head now and part of me wants to sing it out loud to recreate the peaceful feeling i used to have as a kid and teen when we were singing at church. Now, i feel guilty somehow to be convinced atheist and still kind of missing the comfort it used to hold. It does leave an empty spot. I don’t miss the dogma ever. i just miss how some of the recurring habits around christianity made me feel safe.
Somehow, it was nice to believe in a God that could theoretically make everything work out, while now, it’s just up to ME… it can be scary. But i tell myself that if god didn’t exist back when i believed he solved my problems, it means I did it on my own after all.
Still. Religion can give comfort. But i haven’t yet found (and stopped trying) a christian branch of faith that gives you the comfort without the dogma and judgement.
I can understand Joyce’s desire for a church that gives her that “not having a gun pointed at my face” feeling.
You know I just watched Knowing Better’s video on Hitting Rock Bottom, or how traumatic adversity can make one rethink their whole belief system. I think it is an apt explanation for Joyce’s thoughts and actions lately.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geSfK9PzEDw
Very insightful.
When your entire world view is Jesus is Love and Church is Infallible, it’s destabilizing enough to realize that what you were taught about atheists and LGBTQ people is wrong and hateful.
But when a man you always believed was A Good Christian points a gun at you because of that hatefulness and your beloved mother sides with him, suddenly you see she’s not as good and loving as you thought and if your Good Christian Mother isn’t Pure Jesus Love, then what really is Jesus Love, and your world comes crashing down.
Yes, I’m glad someone else knows about Knowing Better! It’s also through him that I found exurb1a and Contrapoints.
That’s high on my list when seeking places of comfort.
*plays “Show Me The Way” on the hacked Muzak*
THIS one.
I thought it was that one.
The Frampton one is a lot more popular.
Neil Young’s pretty pessimistic about that tbh
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-macfL0MdM
That’s a tall speech bubble.
Not as tall as it’s wide, though.
*urge to make a “your mom” joke rising*
What is wrong with me!?
I’m waiting for the uncomfortable moment when Jacob asks Joyce to go to church.
Oh, she’d be up for that.
Actually, I think Joyce will go up to Jacob and say TAKE ME TO CHURCH
(and then of course someone will start singing that song)
She’s already been to his church and freaked out.
Not since she’s started her epiphany, though.
maybe she could go to Jacob’s place again?
PAPACY!
?
Jacob’s church was too Catholic for her, even though it wasn’t Catholic.
Oh, honey, it doesn’t work that way.
She needs a hug. And a time machine. And a non-sucky church.
A time machine would only help her see that even then it wasn’t as great as she believed… And I think she already knows that
Bless her heart.
Yeah, but sometimes it’s nice to have some nostalgia.
Whether or not her nostalgia would be ‘nice’ on the other hand.
Nostalgia is the missing of old times, not the re-experiencing of old times.
Depending how the time machine works, they can be more like a close up movie of old times.
Things should never be as great as children believe to those same children when they grow up. If they are, then we have failed to raise children to be better than we are.
I want my great grandchildren to think of me as archaic, some of my beliefs barbaric. I want them to believe things I am not inclined to, hold ideas I would never think of and take civilization beyond what I could ever envision.
I quite enjoy this thought. Thank you. Fortunately given how often we think of our past selves as archaic there is a good chance of this happening.
I’ve occasionally opined that someday, I want to have been a horrible person right now, because that will mean we’ve actually advanced a bit.
I get this, but I also grew up with my great grandparents and saw you could be flexible with your beliefs and adapt to do better if you eat your humble pie and love enough. I get so angry at wrongs against people, I hope that my idea of progress isn’t so rigidly held I become archaic in that manner. I want my grandchildren to help me evolve too so they can be proud of me that learning can go in all directions.
True success for society is if our grandchildren can look back on us and think our society was garbage compared to their’s and be right.
Wow, that’s an inspiring thought. I had always just aimed at getting kids to be just as good as what i think is good, but i really appreciate the idea that i could be seen as archaic… let’s see. But it’s good to keep in mind that what i believe now to be good ethics will be outdated very soon. Aaaand i think my beliefs are already beyond what the average of people think (i’m not comparing to you guys, more to right wing people which are scarily many) ….. so if the next generation is EVEN BETTER, i’m excited about it!
Are we talking about a creates-alternate-timelines time machine, or a can’t-change-the-past time machine, or a creates-universe-destroying-paradoxes time machine?
Sounds like, either way, somebody’d have to teach Joyce how time travel works.
Not it!
I mean, most of those solve the problem one way or the other. …
Exactly!
Maybe we can work through our difficult feelings without destroying the universe via time paradoxes?
Now THAT’S a tall order.
You’re no fun! *pouts*
Look, I just think it’s awfully illogical to go around destroying universes just to avoid-
-Oh no. I really AM no fun.
At my last job when we were assigning people different characters from Spongebob, guess who got Squidward?
It took me several seconds to realize that you were referring to yourself, if that helps : )
That fourth panel would be one hell of a book title though…
“Oh, and my best friend also has to be allowed in without a lot of people alternatively hating her, condemning her, looking at her sideyed and whispering behind her back, or making her their pet project.”
“and asking mob stooges to bail her abuser out of prison”
Yeah, that feeling of not wanting/having to kill your two dumbass uncles really was something special.
I do kinda hope Joyce goes, anyhow. It’d be fun to see these characters bounce off of each other.
Insert joke about who Lucy would rather bounce off of, sure, but all the same.
Just gonna sit here and go down the list, and imagine each one. Though, actually, there are one or two I can’t get my head around… Hmmmm.
It’s Walky!
Nice one.
Joyce has been having a major of a crisis of faith, and is just rattling off things from the top of her head, and yet “Becky getting her mom back” is near the top of her wishlist of things that would make her happy, and it’s what I love about her
This.
They’re good kids.
Dumbing of age book 9: I want the feeling of when you’re fourteen and all your friends and family are there, singing, and your friend’s mom’s still alive and you’re friends dad hasn’t pointed a gun at your face yet, and Tristan actually said hello to you in the hallway this week, and you’re high on the idea of how to bump into him again on the way out, just as the worship team hits the key change in “There is None Like You”
Man, just thinking about trying to make all that fit well on the cover of a book is painful.
Also, DoA Book 9: Remember Me, Lucy?
“When I killed your brother! I talked! JUST! LIKE! THIIIIIIIIIIIISSSS!”
…it kind of loses something in text.
Cover’s easy enough. But what about the spine?
I can already hear the hollow, helpless laughter of the poor graphic designer who gets stuck with that task.
… I guess that’d be Willis, huh?
I can already hear the hollow, helpless laughter of the poor David Willis who gets stuck with that task.
It would have to be a very large book.
“And when my eyes were still good enough to read font this tiny.”
That’s the Sub-title
DoA Book 9: That’s A Tall Order
That’s pretty much why I stopped going to synagogue in college. Grew up in a small town, the congregation wasn’t just faces in a crowd they were family and it felt like I was replacing that.
Ah, Joyce. Now you’ve got a chance to, in a sense, meet yourself. A more innocent version of you. A you whose soul has not been weathered away by the harsh, uncaring storms of…like, two months at state college. Goddamn, time moved into a slow lane.
Also, not related but something I’ve been thinking about: depending on where the Walky/Lucy plot goes, Walky might wind up seeing the more racist side of his family. Say, Mrs. Walkerton finds out Walky’s seeing a black(er) girl. Which would lead to so much drama.
But also an opportunity for Walky/Sal bonding time. So. You know. Silver lining.
Oh, that is the only reason I ship that couple. I actually don’t like their dynamic but Lucy does not deserve the Linda train coming to town. “That hair.”
*but Walky NEEDS that train to dock.
“She’s like a bisexual version of me… I should ask her on a date!”
I’m pretty sure that that is not what’s going on, but it’s VERY easy to read this sequence with shipping googles.
Most sequences are, one way or another.
You just have to be creative.
I need to get a new pair of those
I recommend any fanfiction site.
but there’s no lucy/joyce material out there
so what’s the point
no lucy/joyce yet
AO3 does have a DoA section, though small
yet…
Oh, I’m aware. I’ve already made my contribution there, after all. Would’ve been more if I hadn’t burned out after just one fic like a wuss *grumble grumble*
“Shipping Googles”
So THAT’S how you find this stuff so fast!
They are great
Joyce knows what I’m talking about.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-2/01-pajama-jeans/gross/
I could get behind that ship… I think that ship could be what I need to warm to Lucy…
Ok but was i the only one who saw that nsfw ad saw the black hair and the closed eyes and for a brief horrified second thought there was porn of faz
I realized it was ethan almost immediately after but still those 2.5 seconds of “he wouldnt…would he” gave me legitament panic
The idea of Faz having sex is scary.
Faz has canonically completed sex several times in an alternate universe, as depicted in chart 7f, ‘Faz and Wen complete a sex’.
His name is David (Damn You) Willis…he would
Willis been good about the age of consent and although Faz has shown how he get away with it at the moment as all states have different Romeo/Juliet laws, age of consent and crime classes based on situation… I still don’t see Willis doing an under 18. Which means we escape Faz Fun for a very, very, very, long time.
Age for porn is different than age of consent. He’s at least implied that various character had sex below 18, but he’s not going to show it. Dorothy, Danny, Joe, Roz at least. I mean, theoretically they could all have had sex only before college, but after 18, but come on.
He could do a Shortpacked! flashback Faz/Wen strip though.
Very good point! Ha, I kinda forgot about Faz being…what about 14 in DOA? My mind was stuck on Shortpacked Faz I guess.
We were talking within the context of having a porn made about the character, not the ages of which they became sexually mature. I was staring it time line wise because we aren’t going to see it based on Faz’s technicalities but his actual age.
The sadness in Joyce’s words is as painful as playing a Life is Strange game (any of the 4 games, but I haven’t played the prequel). Now I need some hipstery sad folk music and to walk in a forest to get the full feeling.
They’re up to four games?
Yeah, The two main thread games, the first game’s prequel, ‘Before the Storm’ and the second game’s prequel ‘The Awesome Adventures of Captain Spirit’.
nostalgia is great because you didnt know how shit everything was until you did and then you wish you never knew
Nostalgia generally kicks in once you’re far enough away to forget the shittier parts.
This is more ignorance is bliss than nostalgia.
Nostalgia: Forgetting all the bad and only remembering the good parts exist. Like when you consider trying it again with an ex-partner because you remember the great times you had at the beach as everything else is blocked out in your memory.
Ignorance is bliss: Not knowing there are bad parts but once you know, it is like the illusion and bliss given by that thing is forever broken. Like learning your favourite twitch streamer is actually racist or ableist.
Nostalgia is a combination of forgetting the shittier parts of certain times in your life, and not realizing at the time how shitty the shitty parts are because you were a different person.
But that’s the thing, isn’t it, Joyce? You can never really go back, can you? You can’t un-experience the things that you have experienced. All you can do is move forwards and try to find the thing that fills your spiritual need now.
I honestly hope lucy and joyce can becomr best friends eventually.
It’s equally possible that they may end up unable to stand each other: Joyce not able to stand Lucy’s continual prompting to give faith a second chance and Lucy not being able to stand Joyce’s pessimistic rejection of the possibility.
That and you tend to react most strongly to what you hate in yourself and she’s trying to get away from all those conceptions of her that people also have of Lucy.
Lucy seeking Joyce out and Joyce accepting her is a GREAT start
Feeling miiighty called out with that fourth panel. Especially the bit about the key change.
As somebody who has moved around a lot as an adult and done a good bit of church hunting, finding a new church with new people that feels as comfortable as an old church with people you know (obviously something that doesn’t happen instantly and takes time) can be exhausting, even without all the traumatic things Joyce is working through.
FWIW, though? I do hope that Lucy can summon some empathy, sympathy and a hug. Because I really think that Joyce needs lots of hugs right now.
So Joyce wants a church that feels like home, bit turns out home is kinda shitty. I think getting therapy is going to be easier than finding that magical, homey church, Joyce.
*but. Damn Spanish spellcheck
It’s a great sign of how much Joyce has grown that there’s nothing there about Becky being straight or about still knowing the proper order of things. She’s learned that even though the innocence of black and white views and unquestioning submission to authority is *easier* that doesn’t make it *better*.
Yyyyeah, I don’t think you’re going to find that at your local Catholic Church, anyway. We don’t do key-changes.
That said, for all its ancient forms, the ritual chants of Roman Catholicism (especially its monastic orders) have a certain unique artistic quality to them.
We do have 18 syllables to the word “Gloria”. So that’s something, surely.
The stark contrast between church and life. Pain of realizing it. I feel ya there, Joyce.
I want to go to a church where you still get that feeling of spiritual belonging and community support, but in the back of my mind I don’t have to remember that a fòrmer bishop who helped settle a decades old sexual.abuse scandal was himself caught with a laptop of child porn while after a return flight from Taiwan…
Becky was also on her way to church, and we don’t know which one.
I really hope that Joyce goes with Lucy and finds there is someone she loves there (and that she’s getting treated much better there than she was at their home church the last time they went).
I also find it interesting that she wishes for things to be different with Becky’s parents in her dream church, but not to go back to having unquestioning faith in her own even though she wants them there. I’m sure that she’d be quick to add that too if someone pointed out the omission, but not being there in the first place is a good sign of her growing.
How about that feeling you get when you’re 23 and spiraling badly, and you drag yourself to church because you’ve got nowhere else to go except quietly crazier in your tiny efficiency apartment, and the lights over the back rows are turned down low and those pews are stocked with full boxes of Kleenex? And the preacher is reasonable and quiet, and the music is written to be singable, not to make you feel, feeeel, feeeel, and nobody questions it if you prefer not to stand?
I’m an atheist and I used to do this a lot when I had some nicer churches near me. The ones that just accept you need a little sanctuary from a louder outside but don’t try to turn it into your SANCTUARY. Plus, lots of older churches are drop dead gorgeous and have built in little spots for quiet reflection.
“Quiet reflection” is exactly what’s missing in Joyce’s kind of worship, I think. The rhythm of a mainline liturgical service–listening, meditation, music, recitation, brief breaks to take notice of one another and remind ourselves that we don’t just happen to be doing the same thing in parallel in some random building–it slows things down in my head. Makes stuff quiet. On a good Sunday I can drop into it like a stone slipping into still water.
“Worship Team” made me smile. Just so many levels in two little words.
I assume “worship team” is Evangelicalese for “church musicians”?
Basically.
Yeah, pretty much. It also implies that the point of people standing in front of the congregation at all is to produce music. So we get a little stuffy about that in my mainline church. Music is very nice when you can get it, but the music isn’t the point. So we say “priest,” “deacon,” “lector,” etc., and if somebody is there to play music they are a musician. No worship teams.
…she really went to ask Joyce
Lucy is the Christian we all wish we had been when we were in college instead of the Christians we actually were in college
Hey all, as a “new reader” (what didnt stopped me from reading all books for whole weeks) i have a question – what time zone does new stip is uploaded every day? Best regards from Poland!
12:01 am Eastern
About 5 AM your time, though the server clock seems to lag a bit, so more like 5:05 or 5:10.
Thank you so much!
And good to see you comment and still makin’ some new stuff after 9 years of DOA Mr. David!
So we can follow Lucy as she goes to church.
Or we can follow Joyce as she goes back to bed…
Ah, Joyce. I haven’t read much Virginia Wolfe (none since college), but she did say one thing everybody knows. You can’t go home again. Even if you could, you wouldn’t be you when you got there.
I hope Joyce continues having her faith or regains it but however Willis will end the plot is sure to be good.
AND DAMN HIM!
For Joyce
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnAJlJHXn_M
And for Becky
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaBPY78D88g
Every once in a while this comic hits me with some pretty familiar ‘ex-Christian’ feels and like…yeah this is one of those times. I don’t…completely miss it. I don’t miss feeling conflicted between my own morals and the church’s doctrine, or the guilt, or the other numerous problems, but every once in a while I think about those things that I do miss, like the community, and feeling like I was a part of something big and important. Feeling like God loved me and had my back. Feeling happy and uplifted when we were singing. Feeling excited about progressing in my faith. It’s all things that I can get in other ways, without the downsides attached, but it’s still hard not to miss something I poured so much of my life into and that brought me so much comfort even when it admittedly also brought a lot of pain. I’ve thought many times about how different things might’ve been if I could’ve had those good experiences without the bad, if religion was unburdened by the problems of the world. But I don’t think there’s a church or a god out there for me anymore. I want to get by on my own.
That fourth panel, though…damn, Willis.