The Dumbing of Age Book 4 Kickstarter reached $50k, which means something wonderful: everyone who pledged for a real, physical, made-of-paper book gets a 2″x4″ Joyce character magnet thrown in extra, no extra charge! So now every pledge level from $20 up gets both a book and a magnet! Huzzah!
A mock-up of the Joyce magnet is on the left. It’ll be die-cut, meaning everything everything surrounding the thick white outline’s getting cut away, like with these Amazi-Girl magnets. After the Kickstarter is funded and the books are printed and they get here in the fall and I mail them out to you, just open up your book and there she’ll be inside.
And if you want another magnet to come with your Joyce magnet, you can up-pledge to one of the other character magnet pledge levels! You can get Walky or Sal or Dina or Amazi-Girl or Ruth or Billie, or both Ruth and Billie. There are also a few slots left in the COMPLETE MAGNET POWER pledge level where you get one of every single magnet that’s unlocked by the end of the Kickstarter.
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Gosh dangit Becky
tho… it was about time that subject came up, wasn’t it.
“We all knew this day would come…” *starts loading up various guns, ammo & bladed weapons during explanation. Keeps talking to confused Becky untill last weapon is loaded & story is finished off with…* “And now you know, now you must helps us track him down & leave nothing recognizable as Human…”
To be honest, if told a true story that paralleled that from someone i care about, i’d probably have little to no hesitation about committing murder.
Yeah. About that.
A very dear friend of mine was raped on campus one evening while she was studying in an empty classroom. She didn’t tell anyone, she didn’t report it. Nothing.
Almost three years later she finally told me.
The thing was, you see, is that the guy who raped her was someone our group of friends walked past almost every day. We used to sit under a certain tree near the focus of campus traffic, “the Meeting Tree,” where we would socialize and study on good days, with an alternate for bad days in the Student Union building. This guy walked right past us between once and four or five times every day. IN fact, it’s likely why he targeted this friend of mine, she was pretty and very visible.
So, of course, I asked her why she never told any of us.
And, it turns out, she was afraid that we, and myself in particular, would have done something to the guy. She was so afraid that our group would have attacked him that she shut up and never told anyone. For more than two years she pretended nothing happened, just sat there and watched this rapist walk past day after day after day. Surrounded by her closest friends that she could never tell.
Talking of murder and creating an environment of violence can have rather unintended consequences, even if the logic connections might not be obvious.
Our group, by the way, was a pretty peaceful collection of hippies. Mostly we sat around drawing, playing instruments, gossiping and giving out hugs at any excuse possible. In between occasional studying.
I think that’s one reason why she feared our reaction so much. We were all pretty close, a small enclave of brothers and sisters. She sensed how violently protective even our little peacenik circle might become.
I’ve been exceptionally careful about discussing violence of any type ever since, and I was never very casual about it to begin with.
So. I put that out there for people to think about. Careless, hyperbolic and extreme language is communication and inflicts violence upon those who least deserve it.
An excellent point. Of all the many reasons that reporting a sexual assault is difficult for the victim, your friend’s is one of the most tragic. Being put in a situation where you’re effectively shielding your own attacker from your friends or family because they advocate vigilante justice is an appalling thing to have happen.
And anything at all that reduces the odds of an assault being reported is an injustice to everyone.
Sobering story. Thanks for relating it, 3xp4t.
Nah, murder releases them and puts negative karma on your soul.
Break both knees with a tire iron so he has to use crutches for the rest of his life. That would do it for me.
“To the pain!”
Why his knees? He’d still have all the parts necessary for raping someone else.
I’m a firm believer that the most effective and efficient punishement by law for rape would be castration. As in, the surgical kind.
Castration probably wouldn’t help much. Sexual gratification is actually not a common reason for rape. I was gonna elaborate further but the post looked like a freaking thesis. So TLDR reason: Most rapists don’t rape for sex but are broken people and a disturbingly large proportion of rapes are already going unreported because the victim would rather bear that cross than ruin the life of their attacker.
Ignoring all morality issues, think about it from a power dynamic. From a purely technical standpoint, a person without a penis can still easily assault/molest/rape another. Using hands or foreign objects. A person with fucked up knees is going to have a much harder time, people can more easily avoid, overpower or escape that person.
You both make very good points, I wasn’t taking that into account (particularly the fact that most rapists are power-mad opportunists, rather than acting on specific sexual urges).
I stand corrected. Kneecapping would be the better option then.
“Why would I want to put my finger on her throat?”
“Metaphors go over her head.”
“NOTHING goes over my head! My reflexes are too fast, I would catch it.”
[inb4… I got an assignment folks, I’m not really paying attention to time ATM]
Bah, that “OMG WHY ISN’T JEN FIRST” joke is getting kinda old, anyway ^^;
Yeah, but “beating dead horses into the ground” is kinda what we do here.
Like beating your Mom.
In the FAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE.
For a nickle.
You know?
but that joke is all we have as an anchor down here. Jen having the first comment is like a lighthouse that shows all is still right in the world
It looks like today I just wanted to watch the world burn, then.
No shame. Fire is lovely.
Why am I now picturing Dina painted greenish-grey and armed with knives?
Because you’re a time-traveler currently looking at the best possible future of this webcomic?
So is this the darkest timeline?
That’s the one where the entire story takes place during an eclipse.
greenish-grey? Did we coat her in copper, which slowly tarnished through exposure to salt water?
Low-visibility make-up, I used to wear the stuff when I was in the Army. Supposedly it would also suppress your IR signature, but I think it just clogged your pores so you couldn’t sweat so it just felt that way.
Yeah, the IR thing is bunk, at least in the long run. The heat builds up no matter what, and it’s going to get out no matter what. Suppressing it effectively with layers leads to hypo- or hyperthermia, if you’re not careful.
Although, it’d be worth it to see someone say “clever girl” RE: Dina.
Yay! I’m so glad someone quoted that. (Otherwise I would’ve said it.)
I am Groot.
I’m kind of glad it’s going to get dragged out of her, though. It’s obvious that NOT dealing with it isn’t working very well. And hey, let’s be honest… no matter how bad of a job Becky does, she’ll still be better equipped to deal with it than Sarah.
Sarah had a great method of dealing with it. At least initially. Now it’s probably about time for Becky to take a stab at it.
Hopefully involving hunting down Ryan and taking a literal stab at it.
Nah, the one carrying knives around is Malaya, not Becky~
Knives? Malaya wouldn’t use anything so prosaic. Her weapon of choice is probably a suit of “Iron Derbyist” powered armour, complete with jet powered roller skates, a la Iron Man. (Yes, it’s comics canon that some versions of the Iron Man armour have had jet powered roller skates.)
Scopedog Iron Man?
I’ve had my worst assault story dragged out by necessity of circumstance before (I was playing truth or dare with a group of friends, got asked about my worst memory, got caught in the memory and had a panic attack), and it was one of the most unpleasant experiences of my life -I wasn’t prepared to share the story, and no one there was equipped to hear it. They didn’t know how to react, and I didn’t know how to take their reactions -hell, I was barely able to say what had happened -I barely knew what I needed from myself, let alone anyone else -and something tells me Joyce and Becky are in the same boat. They’ve grown up together, they know each other well, but their relationship isn’t what it was at the start of the school year -they’ve both learned a fair bit about themselves and each other -and no one can know how they’ll react in certain circumstances until they experience them. Assault and hearing about traumatic things friends have been through? Both fall pretty firmly in those categories.
Ignoring assault isn’t good for you, but reliving it and trying to work through the resulting trauma when you’re not at all ready isn’t either -and trying to get through it without the help of someone who actually knows what they’re doing? That just sounds like a disaster in the making.
And here…we…go.
*Nothing happens, so gotta pull out master detonator…*
FINALLY
YES! I’ve been waiting so long to see this.
Exactly the same here, YAY
Eeyup. Though I suspect she may try to borrow Sarah’s bat soon…
Becky is about to become Captain Indiana: DOA’s First Avenger.
Four movies later, we’ll finally see her in a crossover film with Amazigirl and The Incredible Mike, though due to bizarre property-rights reasons Spider-Carla will not be integrated into the DOA Movie Universe.
NickelFist. Mike’s superhero name is NickleFist.
He’s like HawkEye, but with punching and insults.
Mike ALWAYS hits his target. He’s like Bullseye, but with better hair.
SHE’S NOT THE HERO THAT INDIANA DESERVES BUT SHE’S THE HERO THAT INDIANA NEEDS
Becky, go find a premed student to help you extract that foot from your mouth
Yea, such an evil biatch, that Becky. Really, she should telepathically know about the incident. How dare she invite her best friend to a party to cheer her up?
Putting your foot in your mouth doesn’t necessitate being a bad person or even having bad intent. It just requires you to say the worst possible thing in a situation. Heck, it’s usually a result of ignorance or a momentary memory lapse.
Agreed. This sort of faux pas is far more likely to be the result of ignorance or stupidity than actual malice.
There, there ^^;
See, this is what I meant in an earlier comment. I think all the “Becky Hate” is imagined. Everything I see is always like
commentor 1: “minor critque of becky’s personality”
commentor 2: “yeah, she bugs me a little too for that reason”
commentor 3: “OH MY GOD THIS CHARACTER GETS SO MUCH HATE AND I DON’T GET WHYYYY
It was pretty real. But it died down. Some of the defenders have a bit of trouble to adjust, but it’ll come I guess.
I don’t think calling her a “leech” for not having a job within two days nor managing to turn twenty dollars into her own apartment is a “minor critique”. It’s happened a lot, and I’m pretty sure that the next time the story focuses on Becky’s difficulties, it’ll come back.
If you managed not to see any of it at all, I envy you your amazing good luck.
Yeah sure, but then you get comments calling her a mooch, blaming her for getting caught with her roommate, and constantly getting angry that she spent 20$ on a haircut.
There’s a difference between criticism of her legit character flaws, and that.
Finally. Hopefully Joyce can safely let some of the brain poison out.
So who’s going to suck out that poison? 😛
I volunteer as tribute?
No, no, that’s not how you do it. Like this: I VOLUNTEER!
…Wait. No, I didn’t mean…Crud.
Too late, no take backs, fingers crossed.
either it’s going to be Becky or it’ll be nobody.
Low on the learning curve. VERY low.
I don’t think you can blame Becky for being ‘low on the learning curve’ over this issue. I don’t think there’s been any significant indication that there was any sort of problem in Joyce’s past, so I think Becky can be blamed for her actions here.
Quite the contrary. Joyce has been taking care not to share about Ryan. The first time Becky ever brings up a party (which, without Ryan, would’ve been a perfectly solid post-breakup idea), she gets two facial cues in the space of two sentences, and she immediately understands that there’s a scary secret that needs her support, drops her plans, and inquires. This is being quick on the uptake, not slow.
I’m with you. Becky caught on pretty quick this time that she is missing something.
I thought so too. She does know Joyce pretty well, I’m sure that helped.
Yeah, she is pretty low on the learning curve in theater class. Can’t Becky recognize dramatic irony when she sees it?
Do we know which Hispanic country the DeSantos hail from?
I think Willis mentioned once that it actually was Mexico, but that doesn’t mean Roz herself has ever been there.
I thought DiSanto was probably Italian.
Indiana… 😛
New Zealand
The southmost part of New Hampshire.
HEY. I RESENT THAT REMARK.
The southernmost part of New Hampshire is *Republican*, not Mexican. If anything, it’s populated with the ethnic group of “Masshole”.
I’m having difficulty telling how serious this is supposed to be.
Southernmost New Hampshire is a black hole?
Massholes are the indigenous people of Massachusetts. Think New Yorkers with an even weaker grasp of English. Tioras seems to be implying they have spread across the border.
Not Hispanic, Portugal.
I don’t think so; “dos Santos” would be the nearest Portuguese equivalent of the name
I defer to your knowledge of the language. I thought that I had read that Robin is of Portuguese ancestry but didn’t try to check that before commenting, despite thinking that I should. Goes to show. I also remember reading in Shortpacked that non-Historical portraits of Jesus are often Portuguese-ish because that is as exotic as the Americans who buy them can deal with. I seem to recall Historical Jesus being PO’d because he thought that the guy in the picture was Roman, but someone said he was Portuguese…. HM. I wonder if Historical Jesus will appear in DoA; I do know someone from school who could be his cousin: same build, same hair, same facial structure, though lighter skin, which makes sense for my friend.
* cue dramatic chipmuck
chipMUNK, dammit! Dramatic ChipMUNK!
Also, it was a gopher.
True, but the meme is called “dramatic chipmunk” so I have to go with that.
Gopher. Chipmunk. Same difference >.>
Or a prairie dog, actually. I probably should have googled that before making my first post. >_>
Oh, hey. Since when have you been Tedd?
Couple weeks, since I started reading EGS.
Ooh, very good choice.
Dramatic Chipmunk summoned!
Tell her!!!
Sarah’s gesture indicates that Becky should not go to one of Roz’s infamous decapitation parties.
Decapitation parties are a good way to get a head in life.
Becky’s less interested in getting a head, than simply getting head…
LOSE a head and your life…
Y’know the best part about decapitation parties? You don’t have to worry about wearing a matching hat.
The matching hat is even more important! That’s how they know which head belongs to who.
Didn’t realize Roz was French. There’s no decapitation party quite like a Parisian decapitation party.
And you get to eat lots of cake!
The Enrichment Center is required to remind you that you will be baked, and then there will be cake.
We laughed and laughed and laughed… oh well.
Sans-Culotte!! 🙂
Becky wants to be sans her culottes. But more serious matters intrude.
Alternatively, maybe she’s just really into Transformers Headmasters.
Is unbumming a way of regaining your anal “virginity”?
Once the black cherry is gone, it can never come back.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOO…. wait a minute, my cherry starfish is still intact…
Then you have won this round…
Hey, at least she interpreted the signals as “Bad idea” and not “Sarah’s a stick-in-the-mud.”
Woop, there it is!
On the one hand, it’s good that they’re finally talking about it.
On the other hand… this is not going to be a fun conversation.
Becky rivals Danny in her ability to accidentally and obliviously step into huge drama anthills.
Also in her ability to attract disproportionately large amounts of hate from the fandom.
Yeah, no kidding. “How can they not know this thing we only know due to reader’s omniscience?”
And yet their characters could hardly be more different, oddly enough.
What about the shared levels of sucky parenting?
Well if we’re talking absolute value of sucky, as in “sucky as a yes or no question”, then sure, Becky and Danny have similarly sucky parents, in that they suck. But I would argue Becky’s dad sucks quite a bit more than Danny’s folks, I mean they didn’t pull him out of college for getting dumped. I mean yeah, a couple decades of passive aggressively undermining his self confidence, but it’s not like they’re forcing him to choose between homelessness and……you know, I can’t even come up with anything that would make Danny’s situation comparable to becky’s, which is pretty damn terrible.
Danny’s parents haven’t found out that he’s into dudes yet.
Technically no one has yet, Danny can’t even admit it to himself.
But while I do expect a “bisexual erasure” arc for Danny down the road, particularly from his parents if it ever comes up, they don’t seem as virulent as Toedad. Hell, for all we know his parents dgaf who he dates as long as he dates “up”.
I doubt it would be virulent at all. They’ll treat him as a disappointment and undermine him in it. It isn’t as stark and abrupt and physical as making him homeless but it is still taking that little fire of his heart and smothering it.
Honestly if Danny just had his parents as his support in life I think he’d hang himself.
guys who are only into dudes still get treated like its a fetish.
From what little i understand it is extremely difficult for Bisexual people to get anyone to see them as anything but a straight person with a fetish.
In other words, even though Danny would probably greatly dislike it, his parents probably would handwave his bisexuality as “experimenting
Can you imagine how they might handle his coming out of the closet if he did come out as bi to them.
Becky at least has the excuse of actually not having any of the information.
Thank god I’m not the only one who realized that Becky was Daning it up
But she guessed something was going on, rather than blithely stumbling through the drama fog.
She’s just come out, and now things have settled down she’s become more aware of Joyce’s issues.
I think she’s being a friend, a good and true friend.
Has anyone ever told you that you are literally the Devil, Willis?
Ah, but isn’t half the fun of being a cartoonist, the ability to build and then troll relentlessly your readership ? ~
He is both God, and the Devil, for this comic. And probably Coyote as well.
Willis gets ACME anvils dropped on him on a regular basis?
Likely Gunnerkrieg Court’s Coyote
Nope, the other one, the Native American Prometheus. Coyote stole fire from the other gods so that humans would also be warm and have light at night. Unfortunately he had to set himself on fire to do that.
Meh, what’s a little burnt fur? He didn’t wind up chained to a rock with an eagle eating his liver for all eternity. I have to give Coyote 1st place there.
Also Spider. No, not the Discworld abomination.
I’m not sure if you mean the deity or Jerusalem. Especially since both could easily apply.
Lois McMaster Bujold’s rule of drama is to think of the worst thing you can do to a character, do it to them, and then see what happens.
Time for the talk.
You see when you go to a party and meet a guy who claims to be nice he could actually be a horrible person.
Also sex.
You see, when you go to a party. BRING A BASEBALL BAT. Or an old testament god.
Or compromise, and bring an Old Testament scroll. They’re perfect for all your divine wrath needs.
“Now Becky, it all starts with the birds & the bees…”
Ah, good that this is finally coming up. With any luck Becky can help out a bit. Or, y’know, make it worse, but I choose to believe the former.
Probably both, but hopefully the net effect will be significantly positive.
Indeed, it sucks that Joyce cant bring this up at a time of her choosing and work it out with those she is comfortable talking about it with (I think Amber and Ethan would be best candidates, and Dorothy because she is fabulous. I think Sarah and Becky will be to overbearing despite caring about her the most)
However, at least I believe at the end of all this she will realize there are people she can express herself to, ones she can talk to about horrible things instead of keeping it bottled up.
She could bring it up with, oh i don’t know…A therapist!
One thing that’s conspicuously absent so far is campus programs covering sexual assault risks and support for survivors. That’s not very realistic IME. Every dorm I ever lived in covered the subject through floor meetings with the RAs, flyers in the mailbox first day, and posters all over the place.
Then again, both Ruth and the Trekkie are appallingly bad at their jobs, and the strip has a mild case of Peanuts Syndrome when it comes to showing older folks. A few parents (many of them horrid people) and one sympathetic professor are all I can think of. Therapists, police, undergrad counselors…all kind of conspicuously absent.
Near as I can tell most campus programs, while staffed with well-intentioned people, exist mostly to cover the university’s butt. And a lot of issues go unreported, so I don’t find that unrealistic.
My experiences over three different campus programs have been very different, but trading anecdotes is pointless. It clearly varies by school, and the norm probably falls in the middle ground between the “sham service for legal and insurance coverage” and “full program with highly-trained and motivated personnel” extremes.
What little we’ve heard about the guys’ RA is exactly like every RA I ever had.
All your RAs were rabid Trekkies? Not even one Star Wars fan, or a Babylon 5 guy, or a maybe Firefly? 🙂
Not that Trekkies are all that bad. I had a pot dealer, a proselytizing Catholic at a secular school, a guy who taught massage classes to hit on girls, and one perfectly normal dude that we kept expecting to have a horrible secret.
Keep in mind that Joyce’s reaction to the incident is affecting what we’re seeing – at least with the police she deliberately avoided a potential source of help, and her desire to not think about the incident would probably prevent her from seeking out campus support systems.
It’s one of the reasons I’d really like to see Joyce confiding in Becky here. She’s (seemingly) spontaneous and assertive enough to get Joyce into contact with somebody helpful.
Fair point. Given her sheltered upbringing and the apparent lack of literature and RA lecturing, she may not even know that support exists.
Hopefully Becky and Sarah get her to open up. Can’t think of two better people for the job – one’s a lifelong friend, the other literally beat the hell out of her attacker and knows exactly what happened that night.
Talking to therapists is a good idea in theory -they’re trained professionals who have been educated on exactly how to deal with your situation. But it can be difficult to trust them for a number of reasons -they’re strangers, you’re not friends, you don’t know them, and any trust you give them, you know is one way. My experience has been that it’s easier to talk to a friend first -someone you know well and trust, if you’re lucky enough to have such a person. Not saying that that’s easy or that it’s better, just that it’s sometimes easier to talk about things with someone you’ve already got a history of being open with and able to trust.
There are no therapists.
Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy, oh boy…
“Aw, lighten up, Sarah! I also met this Native American girl, Raidah or something? She seems pretty fun, like maybe she could loosen you up.”
Is Raidah in fact Native American??
Nope. I’m pretty sure T’s idea is that Becky would make assumptions, much like Joyce did about Walky’s heritage earlier in the comic.
I wasn’t sure if I missed some memo about Raidah or something, so thanks for that.
So Becky too has trouble recognizing what flavor of human some people are.
That’s what tongues are for. 😛
Most humans find this to be an inappropriate way to determine their flavor, except when they really, really like you. I have checked, and I’d recommend you not try it yourself.
French kissing isn’t an acceptable way to determine the flavor of a person? Damn, that would explain a lot.
Nope, nope nope nope.
Armpit licking. Only acceptable way.
Actually it is a great way to determine the flavor of another human. Though again it works best if the person being tasted knows you really well ….. really really wants to know you well.
In fact some research suggests that kissing, particularly “French” kissing as well as snuggling and cuddling are behaviors that developed as an unconscious way of testing a potential mate’s reproductive viability through scent.
Must be because she Irish.
Man, at first I thought Becky was thinking of Billie and Willis was making a massive call-back.
Seconded.
Guys lets not blame Becky for this, okay? Don’t act like she should’ve known not to bring up parties. She’s doing her best to make her friend happy. Before Ryan, Joyce had expressed interest in parties, and that’s where Becky left off with her.
So before you start shitting on Becky, remember that she HAS NO IDEA what happened, and the only clue given was that shirt. And that wasn’t really a great clue to begin with.
Hell, she even had a great success there !
Joyce Brown, Queen of the drunks !
In a much better alternate universe where Joyce wasn’t nearly raped I think this would have been an awesome idea by Becky. Joyce could have repeated her queen of the drunk act, Becky could have discovered the arts of flirting with ladies by trial-and-error, they would have driven Sarah and Dorothy nuts and been an absolutely adorable double act.
This is true! Stupid rapist, ruining our delightful wacky hijinks.
Why does it always go back this same thing every fucking time we talk about Joyce its really uncomfortable.
Because it was a horrifying, traumatic event that leaves lasting psychological scars? Jesus Christ just yesterday in-comic she was shown unable to stand being alone outside in public because she saw every guy as Ryan.
This isn’t shit people get over so easily. The fucking worst thing imaginable happened to Joyce that night and she has to deal with it for the rest of her life.
Seriously, dude. It wouldn’t kill you to try and be more sympathetic.
I don’t mean to sound like a dick, but I can imagine worse things. Like, y’know, surviving a holocaust or something like that.
You, in fact, sound like a dick. The fuck would even compel you to make a comparison like that?
Pointing out that it can always get worse, mainly. A die-hard semanticist can never resist correcting someone.
And if those are the worst you guys can imagine, I envy you your lack of creativity. They’re within the realm of things that have actually happened, and could easily again. Anything can always be worse.
That said, we’re not trying to deprecate the horror of Joyce’s experience. Shit’s fucked up, yo.
The problem is that it kinda does depreciate Joyce’s experience. Knowing things could get worse doesn’t make anything better by comparison. And bringing up the technicality that things could be “worse” is not helpful. It’s not the kind of thing you’d say to actual people in the wake of an actual tragedy, mostly because it would come off as callous and indifferent to peoples’ suffering. I don’t think anyone would ever say, “I know what you went through sucks, but at least it wasn’t the Holocaust, amirite?” So why should anyone say it about Joyce?
In short, comparing tragedy is a losing game. All it does is make everyone sad.
Sadly, trying to cheer people up by pointing out that it could always be worse is the exact sort of thing people do all the time, no matter the situation. :/
Indeed. The idea of mollifying an event by considering something worse is predicated on the idea that the first thing isnt “so bad” because the second thing exists.
I think we can all agree that Intelligent beings all deserve to not have horrible things happen to them. Whether thats being bullied all the way down the horror line to being a victim of something that makes the Saw movies look like fun.
Have to agree. The “it could have been worse” platitude does nothing to make the original situation better regardless of the situation. It implies that victims of misfortune should be thankful fate wasn’t harder on them, and that others who do have it worse would find their complaints overblown because they got off light by comparison. It’s a subtle but ugly manipulation when examined closely.
At the most trivial level, knowing that there are starving children elsewhere does not make me like the taste of asparagus one bit better. When you apply the same thing to something deadly serious like sexual assault, you are on the border of victim shaming every time you say it could have been worse. Few people will hear that as truly supportive statement. Find something else to say.
ive had a few time in my life were i needed to be told that it could be worst.
Garbud and I differ on that. I’ve had many times in my life where I needed to tell myself things could have been worse. Sometimes I even managed to do so in time for it to be helpful. I cannot think of a single occasion where having someone else tell me the same thing helped in the least.
One of the reasons you hear people say “it could be worse” so often to others is because it’s a common defense mechanism when dealing with your own problems. We’re used to saying it (often internally) when confronted with misfortune.
Making light of personal difficulties can be a good thing as long as you’re not being too unrealistic. But when someone else says it about your problems you can wind up feeling like it’s your concerns that are being trivialized, rather the problem itself. That’s not helpful at all.
If only “It could be worse” ever worked the way people seem to think it does. Telling her “You were drugged and sexually assaulted but you could ALSO presently be covered in spiders on top of that!” does about as much to improve her mental state as actually dumping a box of spiders on her. “I WAS JUST TRYING TO HELP, WHY IS YOUR TRAUMA NOT HEALING? DO I NEED TO ALSO SET YOUR HAIR ON FIRE?”
-How are you?
-Eh, could be worse.
-That’s good.
-Yes, but it’s ALSO ducking scary and depressing.
Calling people dicks for pointing out your hyperbole is a lot more dickish than pointing out your hyperbole.
Not to downplay the awfulness of what happened to Joyce, but it was not the fucking worst thing imaginable. It was not even the fucking worst way that specific situation could have gone. There are a whole lot of ways that, with no huge stretch of imagination, it could have gone way, way worse. For starters, Sarah could have been unable to get there in time. Joyce could have had a plastic disposable cup useless for self defense. Ryan could have succeeded.
Well this is getting out of hand fast. And it’s over the dumbest things, too. Honestly, what happened to Joyce was awful and traumatic. Any claim that anything is the worst possible outcome is always false, and usually hyperbole. Pointing out that things could’ve been worse makes you sound insensitive, regardless of whether or not that’s true. And calling people dicks is not very nice.
Does anybody disagree with any of the above? If no, then could we all please lay off on the vitriol? It’s not helping.
It’s in discussions like that I mutter to myself “I didn’t realise misery was a contest game”
Argh. my english suck. Err, so, better formulation :
“i didn’t realize misery was a competitive sport“
DarkoNeko, you obviously don’t read “Something Positive”! http://somethingpositive.net/sp05132004.shtml
If by “vitriol”, you mean that I used the F-word, you should note that I was exactly repeating Spencer’s original phrasing.
I’m sure Joyce feels like it’s the worst thing imaginable, which is much more important in this situation.
Just because things could be worse, that doesn’t make anything better by comparison. Telling Joyce things could be worse is obviously not going to make her feel better while she tries to get to class without every guy there reminding her of Ryan and sending her into panic attacks.
This make the information useless. Worse, it makes the information harmful. What you’re saying to Joyce when you say “Things could be worse,” is “Ryan is just the tip of the iceberg of awfulness, and you should be far more terrified that the people around you are going to be even worse.” I don’t think she needs to hear that right now. I don’t think anyone needs to hear that. There’s no point to saying it.
Just made me imagine how Roomies would have delt with it (I believe it often made some inappropriate jokes that Willis isnt proud of, the only one i can think of though is the Sal rape Danny joke). First panel is Joyce finishing her story, then Becky tells her she could have actually been assaulted or murdered, or both! Yay, i wasnt murdered!
Final panel shows Joyce having boarded up her room, installed a security system,and wielding an oversized prop in the form of a shotgun or baseball bat.
Cus “you dont need to fear someone TRYING to assault you again, because next time you could just be straight up tortured and murdered” isnt reassuring.
Thats really what that line of thought is. “It could have been worse”
Well, hell. I was afraid to go outside, now I think i’ll dig a whole and try to decide if life is worth living!
Its not helpful!.
Who’s telling Joyce? Did I miss when she busted through the fourth wall and started reading these comments?
Joyce is a stand-in for “any victim of tragedy.” Specifically, she’s a stand-in for “any victim of sexual assault and/or attempted rape.” I’m sure both of these kinds of people exist in the comments section. My point was that trivializing peoples’ suffering by bringing up the fact that things could be worse is insensitive to those people in the comments, and to the victims of tragedy as a general whole.
But it’s fine to trivialize people’s suffering by dismissing anyone who’s had experiences worse than Joyce’s as being actually impossible? That’s what Spencer’s doing, and that’s why I’m objecting to his hyperbole.
Yeah, fi on Joyce for being traumatized! She should be devoting herself to imaging worse things. Or just shake it off. Or something. She survived, right? heck, Ryans assault on her was actually a blessing in disguise because it alerted her to how dangerous men & parties are, without having to actually get raped. Not that chicks should be making such a big deal about rape, cause there are much worse things than that, too. (Not to mention that it’s their own faults for being chicks, amirite?) Uh, I hope this doesn’t sound like maybe I’m possibly being a duck about this, but I thought you all had better hear it anyway because you have way too much sympathy and empathy for joyce and people who’ve experienced similar, you shouldn’t be indulging them, tell them about how there are worse things and they should get over this, it’s for their own good, for jeezez sakes!
Agreed.
In my experience fucks are quite adept at compelling dicks.
So, what does that prove? Your first sentence is always true, no matter the circumstances.
Oh, wait, you’re responding to hyperbole. Could’ve worded it better, though.
This is Joyce we’re talking about, her mind nearly broke just finding out that a friend she made was an atheist, the only thing surprising is that she had any mental toughness at all with her overprotective helicopter fundi-parents especially in an age where a disturbing number of younger Millennials develop PTSD just by being confronted by things that are uncomfortable to their world-view.
I dunno.
I think Joyce is a lot stronger than people tend to give her credit for and that she can handle just about anything.
She may not always be quite sure how to go about handling it but she can and will figure it out.
Sure she flipped out when she found out Dotty was an atheist but then she went and defended her against her parents. Now she’s lied to her parents for the sake of another friend.
I don’t think her mind was ever close to the breaking point. She just needs a breather is all.
True story. I met a Christian girl from Arizona; I told her I was an atheist. She asked me if I wanted to kill her.
I was gobsmacked to say the least. I said no, FTR 🙂
I think Joyce has evolved since those early meetings.
I’m an atheist, dating a Christian girl. Her family can’t comprehend how she could date me, or they say she can help me ‘see the light’ (which she’s not trying to do.)
Another person I worked with was a fundie – at least that’s what he might be labelled now – and he used to be part of a religious cell, like in the resistance.
It seems that some people are deliberately living a war narrative.
In some senses, I see Dave’s comic as a parallel war narrative. As someone said the other day, the strips feel a bit like an underground resistance. Becky, the young lesbian, is living (currently) in hiding. Joyce, in a way, is hiding. Joyce is the pivot, the fulcrum of so many conflicts. Does Mr Willis see her as a model for navigating our way out of our current mess?
Put this in the context of Indiana is a state where some Pizza makers want to refuse to sell to LGBT people and these comic strips feel like an echo of a culture war, albeit on the side of the angels, and one which is going on around me as well. UK lawmakers are being targeted because they supported the Gay Marriage Bill.
FTR, I was brought up in a highly religious family, I went to choir, Sunday school, Church Infants and Church Primary etc. It never got to the level of strangeness I see about me now although I guess that’s partly change and my age.
Mr Willis, if this comment is too controversial or whatnot, please delete.
Have you read the “About/Read before posting” link above the comic?
Someone called BD posted in reply to me, but I cannot reply to them.
I have read the “About/Read before posting” article and I cannot find that it violates any rule therein.
BD, can you please point out the rule I was transgressing?
TIA.
Sorry, my reply was un-necessarily aggressive.
I know Joyce is an autobiographical figure for Willis, but the interesting thing for me is how his autobiography has been refracted, remade through a female character.
Because he puts his back-story in a female body it becomes the fulcrum of a counter-narrative of so many current awful narratives being played out there in Meat Space.
As I said, he’s on the side of the angels, and I’m glad he is.
Nothing short of genius, IMO.
Re the 1:13 post
I don’t see there as being a ‘side of the angels’… Just those who are asses about their beliefs/lack thereof and those who aren’t.
Will, Joyce is apparently autobiographical.
re: the side of the angels.
That is one way of looking at things, but there are real-world issues and currents which lead me to believe there is more at stake here. A lot more.
Anyone who holds a torch in the encroaching gloom is on the side of the angels.
“especially in an age where a disturbing number of younger Millennials develop PTSD just by being confronted by things that are uncomfortable to their world-view.”
I’m sure I’m just misreading this, but if not, I’m going to have to emphatically disagree with your impression of “millennial” culture.
I think you DO mean to sound like a dick. What is with goyim always using the Holocaust to try to insult other people?
Suffering is suffering. Back the fuck off and act like a human being capable of empathy.
I don’t mean to sound like a dick
It’s just a natural talent?
jesus christ
Fucking worst thing imaginable?
I dunno, I can imagine quite a bit.
Hell, I(and others I’m sure)’ve endured worse.
Woke up this morning, though.
Seriously, this comment needs an up-vote button. As the survivor of a traumatic violent event I continue to have psychological scars from the event. I have less frequent freak outs, but that is mainly because I am more than a decade out from the event. For Joyce this is less than a month since she was the victim of an attempted rape. That she is as calm and stable as she is is a tribute to her personal resilience. I know Joyce is a fictional character, but her struggles are real in that they are based on many people.
I still get nervous when customers at my retail job say my first name, which is on my badge, because I’ve been stalked twice and my first instinct is, “how do you know my name?”
The second time I was stalked I had nightmares that my first stalker had followed me from a city four hours away to stalk me at my workplace.
Trauma is trauma, suffering is suffering. People need to stop acting like only the worst suffering matters (as if that could be uniquely quantified).
I definitely agree with you about Joyce.
You probably already thought of this, but have you tried using a different name at work? Most places are quite willing to accommodate that kind of request, either because of safety concerns or just because an employee prefers their middle name or a nickname. You do have to remember what your alias is at work, but it’s a lot better than worrying about stalkers. Just make sure the tax stuff is under your legal name.
YES I KNOW ! I fucking get it She almost got RAPED ! its sad, its depressing, its dark ! And I’m sorry but I’m not trying to be an insensitive asshole I’m just tired of always having that thrown out there that the nice, caring, high spirited character was almost Violated ! And again like I said its uncomfortable to read. I also know that the comic can’t be happy go lucky all the time but it’s just feels unsettling!
And this not me saying I hate how the story is being told but is a guy really being an ass when Rape being a open topic all the time makes him feel uneasy!?
No, that doesn’t make you an ass. Frankly, being accustomed to it is more alarming. It’s a heavy topic, and many people don’t treat it with the severity it deserves. You’re supposed to be uncomfortable with it; that’s part of the story.
You’re supposed to feel uneasy. And you’re not supposed to like feeling uneasy. But pushing a topic that makes people uneasy is a proven strategy for forcing change. We instinctively want to get rid of the unease, and will do so by either shutting out the source of the unease or fixing it. So, to affect change, deny people the first option.
Isn’t there supposed to be a time and place to face your Demons? I forgot and was just reminded that what happened to her only happened a phew weeks ago, and just the way that’s phrased “forcing it” sounds like a recipe for disaster if she still in a fragile state.
And I’m sorry if I found a breaking point in myself with this constant long running subject.
Hmm, that was poorly worded on my part. I didn’t mean forcing Joyce to confront her trauma. What I meant was forcing certain issues into the public arena, ones which people in general prefer to pretend don’t exist – the issues being PTSD and campus rape, in this case.
In other words, I was talking about politics, not psychotherapy, but didn’t make that clear.
That sounds like a more reasonable version of your earlier statement, and yes I agree serous issues like that can’t be swept under the Rug but it needs to be addressed in subtlety not brought out at every turn.
I think that getting break is one of the benefits we get when we follow other characters around instead. Joyce really is forced to think about her trauma almost constantly — that’s one of her PTSD symptoms — so unfortunately watching Joyce is usually gonna mean seeing her think about it on some level. But, hang tight and wacky hijinks are sure to return.
You think it’s uncomfortable, imagine how she feels.
I also Imagine she wants to stop thinking about it too but that’s hard for the poor girl to do.
case in point.
PTSD has a funny way of becoming the center of somebody’s life. Joyce is lucky that her life isn’t imploding around that trauma.
Wow. What the hell are you even doing at this webcomic if you find topics like this annoying? GTFO.
Not annoying, uncomfortable and usually I can stomach Dark and serous topics but I find this subject to be touchy.
It’s OK to find upsetting topics (such as rape and trauma) upsetting. You might consider reading this comic in smaller doses, like catching up on it once a week or once a month, if this legitimately upsetting topic is a particular trigger for you or if it otherwise ruins your enjoyment.
Cause sexual assault tends to do that. I think that’s one of the more annoying things about surviving is that so often it sticks like some ugly pulsing mass, just constantly rising up to fuck with a person. Flashbacks, body horror, random triggers, anxiety, random guilt spells, and so on. And that can last years, even surrounded in environments of nothing but love and support and where one actually has processed the traumatic event out loud with trusted friends.
You can handle it the best you can and you can bury it, but it definitely often has its way of leaving its little terrible mark… or at least that’s how it’s been in my experience and in the experience of most of the people I have known.
Good, this talk needed to happen. It might be hard to talk about but Joyce needs to talk about it.
We’re gonna party! Party Party Party! Bad memory party! Party Party Party!
Andrew WK seems… disturbingly appropriate as a soundtrack for this discussion.
Oh, we in for it now ladies and gents, its the big one. Batten down the hatches, grab some tissue (in the event that feels are evoked), BREAK OUT THE SOFT SERVE!!!!
I do not think we have enough soft serve for this.
Don’t worry we can use our tears to make more soft serve
But I ran out of ice cream yesterday.
THEN GO AND GET SOME MORE!!!
I did not. I got instead, uh…. I’m actually not sure what it’s called in English. They’re like colored and flavoured liquid in clear plastic tubes that you can freeze. We call them “bolis” in Spanish.
you got Mr Freeze ? o_o daamn I carve some too now.
Double awkard, not just because of the party incident but because of that while gender studies incident. It just occurred to be that Joyce’s first month of school is one big ‘break the cutie’ moment after another.
Why would I put my finger on my throat? Nothing goes over my head. My reflexes are too fast, I will catch it!
Relevant: https://youtu.be/NiV_1HfmC0I?t=542
Are you a potato?/a>
Oh, Joyce… hunny… I just wanna help you with this… Hopefully Becky can start the healing happening.
I just noticed, Sarah went back to their side of the room (just below their bunk). I guess she was worried.
Sarah has magic powers. She can make dashes appear in the air!
Their university has a partnership with Hogward.
Walky does slightly resemble a black Harry pottor
Wow, 75 comments in on a comic featuring the “R” person and nobody has unfairly shit on her yet. Such restraint!
Roman Reigns?
“R” person? I only see Becky, Sarah, and Joyce.
Raidah? Reagan? Ryan? Robin?
…Oh wait, Roz. How the hell has ‘Roz’ achieved the infamy of ‘Voldemort’?
Roz reached pretty toxic levels of fan hate during two episodes:
1. Her oblivious rudeness after The Party: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/03-the-first-step-towards-recovery/peter/
2. Attacking Joyce during her epiphany in Gender Studies: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/02-threes-a-crowd/outrage/
She is a bingo after all. (Spellwrecker decided that I meant bingo, not bongo.)
3. Coming up with any possible way to spin her sexual autonomy as manipulative, deceitful and selfish.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-1/06-yesterday-was-thursday/judge/ (and subsequent days)
It’s those fucking GamerGators, they named Roz Literally Who #69
uh, I assumed it was about Ryan.
Ryan is a “him”
Some people HAVE shit on Joyce because of Ryan. Those people are no longer with us.
And the comment section richer for their absence. I think I remember one of those threads. That individual had the kind of faith in The System peculiar to those who have never had to depend on it for anything.
Also, there actually are some people who can usually depend on TheSys to take care of them.
I know, but having worked for “the system” for a while I got a bit familiar with just how many cracks there are in the safety net that people can fall through. Never get a job with the government if you don’t want to be a cynic.
neeks: I see now. I read The System more broadly, not only the government. My mistake. I see what you mean and have no quibbles with it whatsoever. Far from it. (I should definitely stay away from Government work, since I already suffer from incipient Cynicism.) HM. I already posted this link to Something Positive above in today’s comments, but I think that it totes fits what you wrote, well, the 4 th panel anyway :http://somethingpositive.net/sp05132004.shtml
I was thinking more of people born on third base who think that they’ve hit a triple and such, whose privileges are sanctioned and upheld and reproduced by The Big System.
I love the ambiguity of that wording.
“They are no longer with us. They have departed. They are gone, ‘s what I’m saying. I’ve taken care of them. “
Roz’s failings have been well-listed and detailed repeatedly, no need to go over it in detail again at this point.
Anyone who doesn’t understand that she’s a massive hypocrite, a wellspring of irony, as judgmentally orthodox in her own views as the people she condemns for being judgmental and orthodox, isn’t going to catch on from another round of having it spelled out.
What, aren’t we supposed to beat dead horses?
Aaaand there it is.
God dammit. I’m trying to reply to the aptly named killjoy in case that wasn’t clear.
The only reason I can see for a post like that is to provoke a fight.
Or perhaps it’s a post from someone who acknowledges Roz has flaws, like every character in this damn comic, but is enjoying the process SHE is going through. Who is fed up about tensing up about the tirade of unfair hate the character gets EVERY TIME and how literally the worst is assumed of her EVERY TIME, and saw her name mentioned again and was pre emptively stressing because he was expecting more of the same this time round.
I’m super enjoying Becky’s magical ability to make things worse. She’s like an anti-Mike. Mike’s malignant efforts sometimes produce beneficial effects, and Becky’s best intentions………. don’t
Such cynicism! Have a little fai-
Oh, right. Willis comic.
THANK YOU, that sums what I was thinking up so well.
Are you kidding? This is a fantastic development. Ever since that horrible traumatic incident at the party happened Joyce has been avoiding it and denying it and repressing it non stop. Which isn’t healthy. This development with Becky means she will finally actually talk about it, which will be good for her and help her heal in the long run i think.
A+ Becky, have my sincere gratitude
And Becky has obviously been the one person Joyce could talk about EVERYTHING with. It’s painful to watch them slide away from that habit.
Sometimes, all the talking in the world does nothing to make things better, nothing to heal a wound.
True, but given Joyce’s open personality, her sense of isolation, her tendency to bottle up personal trauma rather than confront it, the risk that she blames herself for the incident (“If I had been a good Christian and not lusted after boys this wouldn’t have happened to me”) and the guilt she feels towards Becky and thus feels prevented from adding her own problems to the pile, I bet this is not one of those times.
+1 to Bagge from me! And also adding to the list of givens: this is why she wanted Becky in the first place and why she kept calling and calling an unresponsive Becky. She wanted to talk with her best friend, and she’s now been given permission (sort of) to do so.
I would bet that once Joyce starts going, it’ll be such a relief that she’ll just throw everything out there.
Convincing Ethan to go back into the closet, slutshaming Dorothy, and telling Amber that she’s doomed to become an abusive monster like her father.
Yeah, Mike is a fucking dispenser of joy and wonder.
For Ethan’s well-being, to make a point that couldn’t be made another way (the only person who gave a damn about it was Dorothy herself), and you’re mis-remembering the third one (he phrased it as a question, that she had a choice).
Still, it’s a good opportunity for Becky to be a beneficial friend. Even just showing that she isn’t KY all the time is a step forward.
The question Mike asked was “If you really are doomed to follow your parents’ pattern, and you’re never the one picking the jerks, which of them does that make you?” Yeah, technically there’s an “if” in there, but that question is not emphasizing Amber’s ability to choose anything. It’s just a way to target her worst fear and make her worry that it’s an inevitability.
And Amber’s the sort of person who lays herself down and awaits the inevitable?
None of those things are things that happened.
Ethan decided to crawl back into the closet after talking to Mike, but Mike was clearly making the opposite point with sarcasm, and was astonished when Ethan ran with it unironically.
I’m not even sure which incident with Dorothy you’re characterizing as “slut-shaming”, but it doesn’t accurately describe any of them. He called her out on her treating her own relationship with Walky as shameful, which, while his methods were dickish, had the direct result of making Dorothy and Walky’s relationship better. He caused their breakup by enabling Walky’s pajama jeans obsession, which, again, made their relationship stronger with lessons learned when Joyce put them back together. And he’s, most recently, underscored the public scrutiny Dorothy’s entire life is going to be under if she does run for President, using dickish means but waiting until Dorothy was awake and aware of what he was doing and able to stop him, which he did not have to do.
And as for Amber, Mike was not the one who suggested that she’s doomed to become her parents. That was Amber herself. What Mike said was that if that’s true, she needs to worry more about becoming her father than becoming her mother.
And, seriously, he’s right. I love Amber, but she’s dangerously violent, and her coping mechanism for that is not exactly what I would call “sane”. After seeing Amber and Danny’s respective relationships in the Walkyverse, I could easily see their relationship here becoming abusive. Amber’ll lash out in anger, and be immediately and genuinely sorry and shocked at herself, and Danny’ll forgive her, because of course he does, and each time it happens, it’ll be a little less shocking and a little more normal, until it’s just how their relationship is…
(I think this is part of the reason I don’t like the Danny/Amber ship, but am all about Ethan/Danny/Amber, despite not having any desire to actually see Ethan and Danny get it on. I think Ethan would act as a moderator and interrupt that downward spiral.)
And Mike reminding Amber that she needs to stay off that path is not a bad thing.
Shockingly, somebody at the absolute nadir of their lives might take an awful suggestion into account. Here’s an idea, instead of getting on Ethan’s case because he listened to Mike, why don’t we put the blame on the asshole who said it in the first place?
I can’t even bring myself to try and delve into what you’re saying about his behaviour to Dorothy and Walky, so I’ll just say that Mike deliberately harassing Dorothy over her choices in men, and then proceeding to photograph her in her own bed, is unbelievably shitty, for whatever “moral” he was trying to teach her. Christ, next you’ll be telling me that Blaine is totally just trying to make his daughter stronger.
If Mike was saying anything remotely resembling “you need to curb your violence” then I’d agree with you, but as usual, Mike was not doing anything even close to altruistic. Amber has spent her entire life as a victim of abuse at the hands of her father, and, like many abuse victims, she’s scared of the prospect of ending up like that later in life. All Mike has to say is that, if she’s falling for push overs, then she’s going to be like her father. It wasn’t about here violent tendencies, it wasn’t about being Amazi-Girl, he was shaming her for being attracted to men like Danny and Ethan because apparently, that makes her like her father. She’s not seeking victims, for fuck’s sake. She’s seeking companionship without the lingering fear that they’ll turn on her. Mike was not trying to help her. He was hurting like he has consistently shown to do to absolutely fucking everybody and I can’t believe so many readers are justifying this.
TLDR: If somebody has rage issues the last thing you should do is deliberately go out of your way to use those issues to make them feel like shit.
If all you’re going to tell me is more of how Mike is totally justified in the constant torment he heaps onto people, then I’ll politely request we not continue this. I’ve spent enough of my life justifying the actions of abusers and I’ve had enough of it.
Oh no, here comes the heartbreak for Becky.
Those faces would melt an iceberg.
Becky did well here imo. Perfectly normal to want to cheer her friend up and what else would college students do on Sat. night ….Party!.
Sarah did a good with the signal, and Becky did a good with catching it.
Becky now knows something is really wrong with Joyce, and that Sarah knows what it is.
It was a terribly frightening thing, but Joyce is alive, she has friends who’re trying as best they know how to help. Hope she lets them.
Hug her Becky.
I agree completely!
Exactly right.
this is a ungood situation shit
Meeting Roz might actually be a good idea. She might be obnoxious and hostile at times but if she’s told Beckys story I’m pretty sure she’d defend her with her own life.
Fully agree. Roz might be the best source of support minus Leslie out there as she’s already plugged into a lot of the activist stuff around campus and this is the sort of injustice that would have her blood boiling…
And now I suddenly want her to be leading the questioning group so that they bump into each other there.
I think that would be a good second shoe to drop after her and Joyce’s confrontation in gender studies.
Tiny bit of shading going outside the first panel where Joyce’s leg is. As a somewhat cartoonist myself I can’t help but notice. It always bugged me when it happened to me.
Becky can read the subtle signs as well as anyone.
You know, for a certain value of “subtle”.
I can’t believe that we missed the first meeting between Roz and Becky. Oh well.
Talky-huggy time.
Agreed. Could’ve been quite interesting.
“I made the mute signal!”
“No, you made the ‘we’re dead’ signal. I was agreeing with you!”
Never give up, never surrender.
I did kinda read Sarah’s hand signal as more of a “I’mma kill you” than “Stop talking about this.” Her face obviously says the latter though. To me, a hand’s fingers together pointing towards you turning back and forth is the ixnay signal.
Sarah’s gesture is the classic “cut!” signal as used in the days of live radio or TV when a verbal command could not be given, or by grounds crew members to indicate to a pilot to shut down his engines after being directed to his space on the apron
“Let’s see, what haven’t I asked about since I got here? Oh yeah — Joyce and her life!”
And if she had asked about it like that (generally, I mean) she would have gotten a “fine, everything is fine, why wouldn’t my life have been 100% awesome for the last several weeks straight, with no blips on the radar of my personal growth? Nothing terrible has either happened or almost happened, don’t be silly!” response. I think Joyce had to be blindsided by the topic coming up for her to ever talk about it with Becky, and I really hope she doesn’t try to deflect.
Becky did nothing but ask about Joyce life the first full day, before the kiss. She refused to give any information about herself and Anderson’s at that point and actively deflected some questions back to talk about Joyce.
Joyce, of course, chose not to talk about her trauma.
There we go then.
TIME TO RIP THE BANDAID OFF AND BREAK JOYCE ONCE MORE, WITH FEELING
Is saying that it’s *not* okay to assume that Roz is Mexican (as opposed to Mexican American) going to sound like I’m piling onto the Becky-hate-mobile? Because I’m not—in fact, I agree with the posts that noticed how quick on the uptake she was in this strip, regarding Joyce’s secret. And I’m not going to suggest she should have the nuances of “Chicana” and “Latina” down, given her background. But if she can’t at least get to “Hispanic” or some sort of hyphenated-American, I gotta call it. She may not know better, but can’t we agree it’s not okay?
Well if Joyce is one of the better socialized members of her peer group, it stands to reason that Becky would be one of the less-well-socialized members, so a bit of (mild?) racism is…if not expected, not unexpected. Especially from someone from rural-ish Indiana.
But I don’t think pointing out it’s not ok means you’re jumping on the Becky hatewagon, so much as just saying “wow, that sure is a thing”.
Coming from rural Indiana myself, I can confidently assert that anything better than overt racism, slurs, and stereotyping is better-than-averagely-socialized.
Kinda sad that you have to test the waters like this now.
+1
What’s sad is that a mere offhanded physical descriptive term is now broadly assumed “racist”, and we’re supposed to have a full breakdown of someone’s ancestry and ethno-cultural-genetic history and preferred terminology before we even try to give a physical description.
Nah, she is racist, or rather carries a rather potent form of casual racism from her culture that she has not begun to decouple. The same culture that had Joyce’s mom treating Sarah like a “get out of racism free” card rather than a real person.
That casual racism, her biphobia, and her atheistphobia are probably the biggest character flaws she has.
Don’t think Becky has displayed biphobia so much as utter ignorance of the concept. Until someone (Ruth? Danny, at some point in the future?) takes the time to really explain the idea to her and we see an informed response I’d withhold judgement on that. She certainly hasn’t had an opportunity to internalize any of the nasty “bi is just kinky straight” bigotry that rears its head in parts of both the straight and LGBT communities.
People shouldn’t be judged by their ignorance, but by their malice – of which there isn’t much with Becky. It’s reasonable to assume that she genuinely doesn’t know any better, and that the -isms don’t make the distinction is an irritating problem. (Would “-ignorant” make more sense here? Race-ignorant, Bi-ignorant, Atheism-ignorant?)
Becky’s biggest character flaw so far is her “leap before you look” aspect, because that is how those other flaws came up in the first place.
I just want to say that there is a huge difference between racism
and ignorance, Becky isnt racist, shes just a little ignorant about the
nuances of race.
I’ve been told that being ignorant on any matter of race makes you “racist”…
Yeah.
Is Becky going to find out now? And be comforting? And go on a crime-hunting spree with Amazi-Girl?…that last one might be too much, huh?
I’m not sure Joyce would enjoy Becky & Sarah going down that party with a baseball bat. Well, not at first, anyway.
Mexican? Is there a kind of fleshling beyond ‘squishy’?
(In other news, I really need to update this terrible computer’s dictionary to recognize the word ‘fleshling’ as I’m tired of it either autocorrecting it to ‘tuna’ or having to live it being underlined in red all the time. Why is the technology on this filthy planet so terrible!)
The technology is WONDREFUL! Spellchecker actually knows what you mean and what you
… what you should say better than oh do. Submit to our Algorithmic Overlords! Resistance is futile (you’d end up spending all your time trying to correct Autocorrect).
There are many varieties of fleshlings, unlike shape-changing robot toys, which are basically all Go-Bots.
Megatron’s the guy who loses to Leader-1 all the time, right? 🙂
We don’t like being compared to Go-Bots (I hear they were a rip off, but then got ret-conned into other-dimansion Transformers), there are a variety of Cybertronians out there. The standard issue come in male & female, Minicons like me are Human sized, there’s also more animalistic types, even ones that can link together with others…
Mind you, the thought of Megatron loosing to Leader-1 is funny, especially since there was a Minicon named Leader-1… 😛
Why do I get the idea that Becky probably has a fake ID that is as good as or better than Sal’s? And did anybody besides me notice how Joyce’s big ol’ baby-blues have shrunk down to mere pinpoints with the mention of ‘partying’?
Now we get to find out more about Becky. Joyce will probably not be willing to open up about this; will Becky accept an answer like “I just don’t wanna talk about it”, or will she then turn into “Becky MacIntyre, Super-Sleuth”™ and start pumping Sarah and other people for information?
Poor Joyce. I hope Ryan gets caught and goes to jail once and for. 2nd and last panel Joyce make me so sad.
*once and for all
I am so glad that is Becky’s first reaction. With what she’s been through she is still able to pick up on what is going on and her willingness to be Joyce’s friend first and have fun second.
Nice of Sarah to try to subtly try to get Becky to drop it. Course its such a whiplash for becky her concern for Joyce kept her from shutting it.
Oh. They’ve finally got around to this topic. Welp. Better get the tissues ready.
Ohhhhh this is NOT gonna be fun.
It’s a Willis comic. It will be glorious and unexpected.
Don’t you just hate it when people get mad at you for something you had no way of knowing?
well you know, going to other college parties is the most likely way to find that guy that tried to date rape her, I doubt he’s smart enough to avoid the public for a while.
Eh, at the moment he’s probably staying at home, nursing a stitched up gash on his face. Remember, it hasn’t been that long since Joyce glassed him.
He may have had an ER visit of his own. He was not only cut and bleeding, he was beaten badly immediately thereafter. Might even have been traced that way by now if the assault had been reported. Police catch a fair number of injured criminals through hospital records.
Or, more likely, he would’ve spun a story about how he and a girl at a party were hitting it off, and then she freaked out and shoved a glass in his face before her friend beat him near to death with a baseball bat. Without somebody being witness to the roofie, it’s his word against thiers, and he can prove he was attacked, while they may not be able to provide evidence of the roofie once Joyce’s system has metabolized it. (and attacking him with a baseball bat is -still illegal-, so they’re in trouble either way. Not to mention Joyce’s parents getting involved.)
I can see tomorrow’s headline: “Lesbian runaway brutally castrates pastor’s son and force feeds him his own severed dick. World reJOYCEs!”
I kind of think Ryan was lying about the pastor’s son thing. Seemed like the kind of pickup line a rapist would use on an obviously religious victim at the time, anyway.
Joyce thought so too.
True. Do we believe anything Ryan says, though?
If he was telling the truth, he’s even easier to trace if Joyce ever reports it, or if Amazi-Girl decides to do some detective work. May have had to go to the ER after the beating he took, and “pastor’s sons” cannot be a huge subset of the local population. Even easier if he’s a townie that was stalking coeds at a off-campus college party – his dad will be in the local phone directory.
Eh, I can buy he’s a pastor’s son.
I mainly just think he was too angry and off his guard to continue lying after he dropped the Good Christian Boy mask and Joyce definitely no longer trusted him, but it could go either way.
Um, nothing, it’s only her default expression.
On the magnet design – is that a hooded sweater vest? Have we ever seen her wearing it? Is this a thing that exists in real life?
We’ve seen it before. It’s essentially the same design she’s wearing now, but in different colors.
It is indeed a hooded sweater vest.
Googling “hooded sweater vest” confirms that they exist, and in a wide variety of styles and colors.
I can’t help but wonder if Joyce is going to try and deflect again -and if she does, if Becky will let her -or if Sarah will let Becky not let Joyce deflect. So far, Joyce hasn’t been ready to deal with anything to do with Ryan -is Becky going to see a shutdown as “this is bothering Joyce and she doesn’t want to talk about it, I shouldn’t make her” or “this is bothering Joyce and she doesn’t want to talk about it -clearly this is something REALLY REALLY BAD and I will MAKE her talk”?
Or is this going to be a ‘feels interruptus’ sort of a thing -Joyce and Becky are going to talk and someone comes in/phone rings/fire alarm goes off and the conversation gets tabled again.
Dumbing of Age, a tragedy of good intentions.
I don’t really understand the alt-text? Like, if Roz is visibly Mexican, what’s the problem with calling her that? Or at least Latina? Well, I suppose Becky would be more likely to say “Hispanic,” but that’s a different problem.
I’m wondering because I myself am Puerto Rican, and it doesn’t at all bother me at all if people refer to me as “that Puerto Rican chick with the librarian glasses.” Is it that white people may not be able to tell Latinos apart, so shouldn’t assume to know their specific heritage? Someone please explain?????