Well, one reason is this puts a damper into her fantasy that the rest of the hall constitutes a silent majority that condemns the queerness of those like Ruth.
And that’s one of the reasons that straight allies speaking up directly are so often necessary. Because bigots use the silence to assume total support for their violent bigotry and thus feel more confident in pushing on that and going to extreme lengths in service to that.
I’m not gonna lie, I was really worried about you, which seemed weird since I only know you as the person who posts first every time. Glad you seem to be feeling better.
Lalah Hathaway can sing a three-note chord by herself, so, yes, there are. Some singers can generate overtones which harmonize with their notes. Hathaway can make *two* at the same time.
Well, Grace cares because she just won a bet with her girlfriend and Agatha cares because she’s a little ray of sunshine who thinks they’re adorable. The rest of the chat is about whether or not Ruth’s forgiveness worthy.
Relationships with an uneven power dynamic, as Rachel well put it, are discouraged for good reason. RAs wield power over the students in their hall, and favoritism in such situations can be a real danger.
That and, for a few others, they just did not know these two were dating. This matters to Agatha who thinks they’re adorable, and it matters to Grace and Mandy because they had a bet over it.
Oh, plenty are of the mind (including Ruth) that this is but a formality and Ruth will be on her ass shortly. But as of now, she’s more or less still the RA.
Also, you might hold hands with your friends, but this is definitely a coming out and standing with her girlfriend. Especially as everyone already knew about the sexuality thing at least thanks to Billie having to mention it as part of telling everyone about Mary’s blackmail of Ruth.
And in this case, although it never happened, Billie had the opportunity to blackmail Ruth. “Do what I want or I’ll tell them about us AND about your drinking.”
Neither Grace nor Sierra nor Mandy are the R.A., so they can mack on each other all they want, and it’s not against the rules. (Though there’s a point where they should take it to the Fuck Zone.) Ruth macking on her residents is.
Hand-holding is more often a sign of a relationship than not. Hell, especially for queer folks. It’s why one of the most overused shots in queer movies is the surreptitious entwining of the hands out of sight as the couple starts to date. it’s the visual signal that these two are getting together, knowing that a full PDA is likely to be received poorly.
While there might also be innocent means of holding hands, most people would be justified in two women of the same gender holding hands and presenting before everyone else as an admission of a relationship.
I should note: Ruth is Canadian. Not sure of the culture in the West of Canada – but in the East, you don’t hold hands unless you’re a) a child under 12, b) comforting a sick person who’s ill enough to be hospitalized (or someone who’s close family is ill enough to be hospitalized) – and in which case it’s more of a you-rest-your-hand-on-top-of-the-other-person’s thing than a fingers-interlocked thing) or c) in a romantic relationship with the person you’re holding hands with. If Ruth is from that region of Canada, it’s totally a romantic signal.
(Eastern Canadians are kind of standoffish on the PDA thing. Like, I know a lot of het partners who don’t even peck on the cheek in public. We’re not as bad as England for not doing casual physical contact, but we’re definitely a lot more reserved on that front than USians seem to be. Which suits me fine – I hate physical contact from other folks even more than most Canadians, so sometimes even a friendly back-pat or what have you has me uncomfortable. On that note, a weird Eastern Canadianism: in certain settings, a hug or friendly slap on the back is less “intimate”/romantic than hand-holding. Not uncommon for friends to greet each other with hugs here – but god help you if you hold hands with a non-SO.)
As a Western Canadian, PDAs are pretty common there. Like, sitting on laps, throwing a leg casually over the person you’re sitting next to, things like that are pretty common in relationships, even in public.
And I’ve held hands with friends in public as well. I think we’re just generally more relaxed and casual out there than Back East.
No idea about Toronto, though; wasn’t in Ontario long enough to observe. They consider themselves western Canadian; the actual West looks at them–far side of Winnipeg, the lateral middle of Canada–and pinches the bridge of their nose.
Ontario is kinda in the middle – hand holding means they might be very good friends (though it’s more common for kids and teenagers – around college, it drops off) or they could be dating.
Before they started their ‘sexy lesbian suicide pact’, Ruth spent way too much time trying to make Billie’s stay at Clark Hell: stealing Billie’s cheerleading sweater, DEFACING Billie’s cheerleading sweater, starting a fight with Billie in the hall, threatening Billie in the hall later…
After the pact, they kept up the antagonism to keep people from realizing that they were a couple (the only reason Mary caught on was due to the one time Billie was able to leave WITHOUT being thrown thru the door).
And it WORKED! with the sole exception of Mary, everybody thought that Ruth was still the Tyrant RA making an example of poor Billie.
Now the Tyrant RA’s biggest victim has just stepped up to her tormentor, taken her hand, and is shooting everyone a look that says ‘If anybody gives Ruth a hard time, I will rip their femurs out and shove them where the sun doesn’t shine!’
That right there is a pretty big sign of a relationship.
And Billie’s behavior afterwards, such as sleeping in Ruth’s bed and organizing the entire floor in Ruth’s defense, has not exactly contradicted that belief. I’m just surprised that Mandy thought it needed confirmation.
Because Ruth had power to ruin Billie’s life and used that to torment her on a regular basis and only stopped when Billie started a relationship with her. That’s concerning.
(Yes, I know that’s not wholly accurate, but it’s what the floor knows)
It isn’t the handholding itself so much as the implication of it, that Billie is still with Ruth despite all that happened and Ruth is still the RA at this moment, though she might not be later. It is true it could be seen as friendship, but several people on the floor knew they were together thanks to Carla and so it creates an unspoken bias that it means they are still in a relationship.
More of her proselytizing. I’m a Christian, and I would find it annoying. Like, stop rubbing our shared religion in everyone’s collective face, we get it already.
No, they will know we are Christians by our love, and by the frequency with which we compare real-world events to semi-obscure Biblical stories that probably didn’t happen even from a Christian perspective but are still cool because Daniel basically busts a ghost by spreading flour over the floor and tracing footprints like a regular gumshoe oh my god you guys the Daniel apocrypha are fucking incredible.
Not to mention he part “let he who is without sin cast the first stone”. Funny how a lot of so-called Christians tend to forget that and the whole “judge not lest ye be judged” parts.
I mean, to be FAIR, she didn’t PLAN for that to happen. She’s an asshole, not an evil mastermind.
The worst she’s actually done is blackmail a shitty RA (who was probably gonna end up self destructing eventually whether or not she got involved) and indirectly misgender somebody.
Keeping people from intervening in a suicide attempt is not much better than intentionally driving them there. She also asked the next day for permission to drive Carla to that state.
“If someone tells you they’re “just playing Devil’s Advocate”, exit the conversation immediately. All they’re really doing is stroking their own ego or trying to make themselves look morally or intellectually superior.”
There are times it’s a useful approach, but it very often is as you suggest.
It’s often a good idea to have someone to argue the other side to point out flaws in your plans before they actually show up. In the context of “Mary just wanted to study”, it’s all pretty much been said and shot down long ago.
what you say about comics that are trying to deal with real issues is often interpreted as how you’d react in real life. And, in my experience, it’s mostly true.
Anyways, Mary isn’t irredeemable, she just has a lot further to go. Ruth has been redeeming herself for a while now. Maybe not enough for everyone, and that’s fine. But she’s not as awful a person as Mary.
Mary doesn’t even seem to realize she’s done anything wrong.
She may not have planned from the start to drive Ruth to suicide, but when she found out that it was a possible result of her actions, she clearly did not care.
I wish she was. Fuck, the communities I belong to tend to have no less than 3 major groups actively gamifying trying to drive our youth to suicide on any given day.
I swear, the modern day is rapidly revising what counts as cartoonish villainy anymore when the bigots are so much worse than any Saturday Morning Cartoon could ever conceive of.
And yet we elected one to be the President (like literally, many 80s cartoon villains, especially the one’s based on wanton cruelty and greed were based on Donald Trump).
Not to kibitz, but Rachel is the one who called the RM, in that linked strip, and in the arc says she’s going to, earlier.
Your bigger point about Mary not caring about the human risk (or bothering to find out, and being the self-appointed moral center (sicl, and butting heads with anyone who is neutral or a known antagonist, to cover things up for her own ends, is spot on.
Indirectly as in, as far as I can remember, she never outright referred to Carla with male pronouns or said “You’re a man!” or something. She IMPLIED it, through stuff like “take you to the men’s dorm” and putting quotes around ‘she’.
Still horrible, yes, but just one incremental level LESS horrible than actually doing it.
“Take you to the men’s dorm where you belong” was her full quote. And then smirked and gloated when that stopped Carla in her tracks. So, yeah, pretty directly and unambiguously intended to misgender as a means of hurting her.
I mean that she didn’t outright SAY THE WORDS, is my point. She did do it, yeah, but it was ambiguous enough where somebody who didn’t know Carla was trans may misinterpret it to mean other stuff (like I did, all those years ago. The comic was different then. Ana Chronistic was just a legend. A word on the wind.).
When I first read that strip I had no clue what it meant. Then again, when I first read that strip I might not have understood even if Mary had directly referred to Carla as a guy so I D K
If you don’t realize that Carla is trans, it comes off as a weird non-sequitur comment. If you do, it’s pretty obviously a direct attack – “You’re really a guy. You belong here, not with us.”
While that’s true, I think Sageress meant that Mary didn’t say it explicitly.
Though I disagree with their earlier implication that this makes it even slightly less awful, since what matters is that the person she directed it at understood her meaning.
The fact that she didn’t outright use a slur excuses witnesses (or readers) for not recognizing how shitty it was, but it doesn’t actually make it any less shitty of an action.
Not being comfortable with using one, or not wanting to risk stress out any readers any more than necessary would both be perfectly valid reasons to avoid including any kind of slur.
Though in this case, not using a slur puts the focus on the misgendering, and makes it clear that by itself, that’s a nasty thing to do.
I imagine I’m not the only cisgender person who thought it was merely rude, and that arc (plus the accompanying comments) taught me that misgendering is by itself at least as bad as any slur you could use.
And was trying to force everyone into a mandatory, involuntary prayer. (Not nearly as bad, but still very bad.)
And also we’re DEBATING forgiving the RA who’s by and large STOPPED her abuse, versus Mary who’s shown no sign of stopping save under the most grisly of threats.
This is the point. No one is irredeemable. Even Mary.
But they have to change. They have repent and sin no more, to use religious terminology. Mary’s young, she could change. But she’s shown no sign of it. Ruth has.
Ruth is admitting to being wrong and being a horrible RA. Mary doesn’t see herself as doing anything wrong whereas Ruth can at least admit it. Not excusing anybody, just saying a bit of humility goes a long way.
We’ve reached a point in our society where “asking for forgiveness” is a form, a public ritual, that is undertaken with no actual requirement for sincerity or earnestness.
Those who undertake this public ritual are even evidently “entitled” to take offense if they are not given the forgiveness they have asked for, regardless of their actual sincerity.
True redemption requires an individual being willing to accept that they have done something for which they need to redeem themselves. Mary is unwilling to see anything wrong with the harm she causes.
Mary is almost tragic in a weird sense. She gains nothing from what she does and in her attempts to create her version of heaven on earth has created her own personal hell. I don’t hate Mary, I pity her.
Mary isn’t worthy of pity. If she spent the energy she expended scorning the world learning about it instead, she wouldn’t be half the bigot she was. Speaking as a Christian, you should never give anyone a free pass for bigotry, even if it’s due to ignorance and indoctrination. Forgiveness only goes so far as it is accepted. Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s and to assholes what’s coming to them.
INB4 “turn the other cheek”: That’s actually a subversion of a power dynamic, where in order to deliver a second slap, the slapper would have to acknowledge the slappee as an equal rather than a lesser (slapping with an open palm instead of the back of the hand). Basically, don’t voluntarily surrender your humanity to your attacker. Stripped of cultural context, it loses meaning.
Curiously: “Go that extra mile to prove yourself a good citizen.” The phrase comes from a discussion of non-military national service obligations and Imperial taxation. Jesus was explicitly refusing to endorse non-compliance or even active resistance to the laws of the occupation.
There’s a lot of “make nice with Rome” stuff in the NT that’s of perhaps dubious origin, perhaps related to attempted rapprochement with the Roman government (and attempts at distancing from Jewish rebellions).
I think it was about how the soldiers had the right to demand coats but not shirts and this was putting them into an awkward position? Same with the extra mile: they could demand that someone carry their stuff for a mile but it would be awkward to say ‘no stop now give me my stuff back’ OR to explain why their stuff is being carried past that limit.
Like Cersei, Mary does what she does because it makes her feel good. Knowing that she is the moral center of the world makes her feel good. Knowing that God will punish all the transgressors around her makes her feel good.
Like the hypocrites in Matthew 6:5, she already has her reward in full.
Actually, if I recall the Old Testament right, the concept of redemption is akin to “redeeming” a hostage in much the same way that one redeems a coupon: by paying a ransom price. Specifically, in the case of sin, a blood price. First it was animal sacrifice, then Jesus on the cross. But either way, it’s more transaction than transformation.
…. oh, wait, outside of Biblical mythology. Yeah, okay, there you’re right.
The chick who was shitty and dangerous in large part due to severe mental illness and substance abuse problems? Yeah, I believe she does get a chance to try and make amends while she’s rebuilding her life from the ground up.
Yeah, Ruth has displayed several moments of kindness and caring, like trying to tell Amber about her asshole dad or getting Billie a cheerleader’s outfit (bad as that turned out). She is clearly bad at expressing positive emotions and dealing with people, which manifests in cruel and abusive behavior, but she easily outshines the callously spiteful Mary, who has never displayed any humanity or emotion beyond hatred/bigotry. So screw Mary; Ruth is messed up, but way cooler.
I mean, like, again, devil’s advocate here… It’s been like a month and a half, in universe. People forget this a lot because this comic takes months to cover single days, but it HAS NOT been that long for these kids.
I wouldn’t really expect her to completely turn around yet considering it’s been about a week since the Carla stuff happened.
I’m saying, like anybody else, she deserves a CHANCE.
What does “a chance” mean to you? This is not rhetorical. Does it mean “If she genuinely transforms herself, then don’t be 100% unwilling to forgive?” Or does it mean “Don’t just assume she will be a horrible person tomorrow?”
The first one, sure.
The second one, NO F’N WAY. That’s a good way to continue getting abused. If someone is horrible yesterday, horrible today, and shows no sign of regret or repentance or change, the ONLY sensible thing is to assume they will be horrible tomorrow, and protect yourself.
The present Mary does not, in the present time, deserve any kind of “chance.” The future Mary might, but only if she is substantially different from the present Mary. As long as she is the kind of person who, when told she can’t continue to abuse people, says “Just let me have Carla” then she deserves NO CHANCE of any kind, because anything one might describe as a “CHANCE” in this context just means no more or less than “a chance to hurt someone else.”
I’m really not sure why you’re defending her, as she is today. She’s given absolutely no sign of even beginning a turnaround. None. If and when she does, then talk to us about “chances.” Till then, it looks a lot like you’re siding with a vicious, dangerous, actively and willfully abusive person.
In fact, Mary should be compared to Joyce. She was (possibly) brainwashed into believing hatred and ignorance.
The difference is that when faced with the real world, Joyce chose to change what she was taught, while learning to accept and support others. Mary on the other hand chose to keep spreading hatred.
The part of the sermon that sunk in for Joyce was “love thy neighbor” — she sees god as loving, and when faced dissonance, chooses the believe in the love and not the hate. This is a refection of who Joyce is at heart.
When faced with the same dissonance, Mary chooses to believe in the hate and not the love. This is also a reflection of who Mary is at heart.
Giving someone a chance doesn’t by necessity mean that they should be given free reign. The notion that they should be given a chance already implies that what they are doing is wrong and needs to change. For that matter ‘playing devil’s advocate’ is often incorrectly used as a means to allow abusers to perpetuate abuse, but the correct method would be to take a moment to consider how and why the devil believes they are right.
Ideally, this should give us insight into which exact factors have influenced Mary to become the way she is. The real problem with playing devil’s advocate is that any insight such reflection might give us doesn’t undo the damage she has done or make her sympathetic.
Sageress isn’t siding with Mary. They’re saying that Mary is wrong and can’t change if she’s not given a chance to change. Where Sageress misses is when they say Mary deserves a chance. Nobody DESERVES a chance. A chance is a privilege Mary must earn first and foremost by acknowledging that she’s wrong and showing a genuine desire to become better and so far Mary has done no such thing.
Though I’m of the mind that everyone, no matter how bad of a person they are, has some redeeming quality deep down. Something. Mary probably doesn’t because Willis writes her to be the most hateable human ever spawned, but still.
My point is, she should be given a chance. Remember that this whole thing, from the Carla problem to now, only took place over like a WEEK. Nobody is gonna turn around and repent in that period of time.
In comic, Mary is still a potentially dangerous villain. I don’t think any one there who might be vulnerable to her should give her the chance to do more damage. She’s shown no sign of repentance or even of understanding that she’s done anything wrong. At this point, she needs to be isolated and watched, for the other girls’ safety.
Ruth on the other hand, while she has done harm, has been through a crisis and appears to have changed. She’s acknowledged that she’s done wrong. This doesn’t necessarily earn immediate forgiveness and certainly not trust, but it does make it reasonable to give her a chance to prove that the change is real and to actually earn forgiveness.
I know exactly how long it’s been; I maintain a timeline. (Though I admit to being kind of slack about keeping it up to date lately.) The characters’ personal development doesn’t really move at realistic in-comic rates, though. It moves at the speed of plot, and the plot is a whirlwind if you look at it from the perspective of how much is happening from one in-comic day to the next, rather than how fast it’s moving in our universe.
I mean, look at how far Joyce has come in the last six weeks. If Mary’s made any movement in that same period, it’s been in the wrong direction.
Mary isn’t irredeemable, but the first step in any potential redemption is that she has to stop being awful, and she hasn’t done that.
I love that line and yeah, I think that gets to the heart of the original question.
Mary isn’t guaranteed to be irredeemable, but her road is long and painful and she shows no sign or starting on that path before she reaches her final end. And much like with Ruth, she will not be able to undo the damage she did along the way and some will be justified in never forgiving her no matter what she did.
Ruth? She’s starting that road. Showing earnest contriteness for the ways in which she did her job were harmful and seemingly willing to make a fresh start. Between the two, Ruth has a much better chance of seizing that rare and special thing.
And Ruth is going to have a lot less brutal of a road.
As others have pointed out, Ruth was a mean and bullying RA because her mental illness deprived her of all emotions but anger. Mary joyfully tried to drive at least one person to suicide because they loved a woman and Mary thought that was sinful.
Not if you truly understand Ramen (and I don’t mean the packaged instant noodles with flavouring kind). Find and watch the movie Tampopo (warning, has NSFW content) and you will have taken the first step to truly understanding the great mystery and wonder that is true Ramen. 🙂
Or, if you don’t want to go through all that, just understand that there’s a difference between the packaged cheap stuff and “restaurant-grade noodle soup with meat, veggies etc in the broth.” Much like ordering macaroni and cheese as an entree vs. a box of Kraft Dinner.
I think it comes down to the way things are framed.
In DoA, like with most media, there are certain characters portrayed as irredeemable. When we look at Blaine and Toedad, we don’t see people who can change and be redeemed. So when someone does something wrong, we feel it is more acceptable to be less tolerant of harmful actions, even of milder ones.
In SU, no one is portrayed as irredeemable. They all have motivations and emotions and even their extremely harmful actions have reasons behind them. They don’t get away scotfree with their harmful actions, but the focus is less on punishment, more on understanding and correcting them so that they will not do the same thing again.
It is a different type of framing and framing things differently greatly changes how we react to characters and how we want to deal with them (though characters like Connie and Dorothy are still judged as Mary-Sues by some people which greatly annoys me as someone who relates to them…)
I’d be inclined to agree if not for how the SU fanbase have reacted every single time something has been revealed about Rose in the past that reveals she wasn’t always the way she appeared in the recording she made for Steven before he was born. Every single time, the discussions have been overwhelmingly in favour of the notion that Rose was always the infallible Messiah Pearl has built her up to be. The show itself doesn’t do this of course, but the fanbase can take weeks or months before they’re able to process new information.
Yeah, but Danny isn’t one of them, and really hasn’t been shown to be all that bad a guy. He’s not perfect, but there are other characters who everyone likes who have done worse.
I’ve been where people use my name as a synonym for fucking things up, and it sucks. Fortunately, I had supportive parents, and, even when I had depression problems, self-esteem wasn’t an issue. (It was just that everything else sucked.)
I just don’t like it, even though I know Danny is fictional. I hope no one here does that in real life. I hope it’s just a holdover from the other universe.
Wait, why would you make a CHA check after succeeding a Diplomacy check? Is the DM just a huge asshole? Or did you roll a Nat 20 despite having a total -2 points in Diplomacy and this is how the DM justified that, er, juxtaposition?
Diplomatic roll to make your point, charisma roll to sway them to your point of view. In this case they understood the point but were unmoved by Joyce’s religious references.
I know, right? It’s so tempting to see how far down past size 1 font a person could scale text and have it still look like (albeit, unreadable) text in the panel. XD
So is Joyce wearing a plaid and white jacket or a white shirt with a plaid vest? Whatever it is, it’s open over a camisole or something, because that collar is in no way connected to what we see between the plaid.
Not as much, no, but she did make a number of threatening comments and blowhard statements to them, neglected floor meetings, was generally ill-tempered to people, and now has been revealed to be in a relationship with one her charges, AND the charge she was most unpleasant to. Billie was her main target, but it wasn’t isolated to Billie alone.
We’ve never seen her target anyone as harshly, but she constantly used threats of violence and intimidation:
– Rounding up people who tried to skip the first floor meeting
– When she forced Danny and Sarah not to bail on Joyce’s party,
– Forcing everybody out of the elevator to make room for Billie
– Demanding to know what Joyce was hiding and snatching that flyer for the Questioning Individuals group from her
–Slapping that dick onto Mary’s face
In terms of getting physical, I can think of a couple.
She dragged Sarah and the other skippers to the first floor meeting.
When Mary complained to her about the WBDDB, she drew a dick on her hand and slapped it onto Mary’s face.
Also there was the time with Billie (before anything happened between them I think) and the elevator where she tried to threaten people off it to make room for Billie and if I remember correctly, actually physically pulled someone (Dina?) off.
When Joyce was trying to be a ‘cool rebel’, she threw Joyce’s gloves out the window, I think.
(And I say this as someone who is reasonably forgiving of Ruth – and almost all of the student characters really – and a Ruth/Billie shipper.)
Pffft, half the main cast are technically criminals since they sipped on booze. Technically means shit until they do something serious (which, to be fair, Ruth has committed several assaults and batteries).
Please don’t joke about that. My uncle lost a good chunk of his life and most of his future to those goons. Scientology would be a step down from Christianity, even for Mary.
They bring him back at the end of the series, but it’s pretty hard to understand. I’m guessing production was rushed and they just threw in whatever they could find that seemed to fit the theme.
I heard there was a sequel in the works, but it’s been in development hell for, like, [i]ever. And what’s more, some people keep coming out with these fake trailers promising that it’s going to come out any day now.
Okay, that one was on me. I accidentally used the hotkey for close curly quotes (alt-shift-[, producing ”) instead of straight quotes (“) and thus didn’t close the title element for the acronym tag.
…and of course the straight quotes are autocorrected into left smart quotes, thus further obscuring my point. I officially give up. No more computer science, I’m becoming a chemical engineer.
You can totally see where the writers and producers were influenced by “Zoroastrianism”. Sure that one has a really small fan base nowadays but it was, like ten times more popular than “The Bible” before Jesus was introduced in the last couple seasons.
Borrowed some bits from “Sumerian” (*cough* The flood and the Ark *cough*) as well. But you can probably forgive that, after all early episodes of “Akkadian”, “Assyrian” and Babylonian” ripped that off as well..
Famously said that he didn’t want the people executing him on trumped-up charges of sedition (motivated mostly by the wounded egos of a few washed-up old priests who threatened to complain to the Emperor if he wasn’t executed) held personally responsible. Given that he had been tortured and put through two kangaroo courts, that was pretty generous of him.
To be fair, Billie is Alpha bongo, Problem Solver(TM). Any relationship she’s in is automatically uneven in power dynamic. That’s what Rachel meant, right?
At least with the Mary phrase that has been banned what with the studying she was just trying to do, that fit the whole “no don’t defend this character” narrative.
I think it comes down to Willis often having to moderate every single comment to weed out the trolls and at one point just got tired of seeing the exact same phrase turn up over and over.
The sheer pitch of it showing up was unreal. Eventually he got tired of it. Same thing with the b-word. Originally it wasn’t banned, but then it got used so often at once that Willis banned the word (because folks kept throwing it at Roz).
Uuuuugh, more conflicting feelings!!! Did Rachel really HAVE to broach that subject now? No, she absolutely didn’t. Is she wrong….no…no, she isn’t. I’m with Sierra on that one. No one should be mean to Ruth or be obligated to dislike the situation, but Joyce doesn’t get to declare the slate wiped clean for everyone on the floor. Everyone has a point here, but this does not seem like the time for all the residents to publically put in their two cents on Ruth and Billie’s relationship. God help us if Walky comes crashing into this.
There’s a lot of queer ladies on the floor. I imagine there’s a lot of queer headcanons that have been floating around so the canon deal is probably very exciting.
Lapis just spent months in a deeply unhealthy, highly toxic, abusive on both ends intimate relationship (not a romantic one, but definitely intimate), honestly the last thing I can see lapis looking for is a new intimate relationship. I just don’t see it ever happening, lapis is going to need a long time before she’s emotionally ready to open herself up to anyone.
Now, I don’t hate the Lapidot ship and if it happens I’ll be surprised but accept it with open arms, but I really don’t think Lapis will be Peridot’s eventual love interest.
Plus it’s this nice, slowly budding relationship that neither one seems to be aware is growing, but hopefully eventual discover together, most likely by accident. And they have such good chemistry together. And Peridot’s letting Lapis emotionally heal at her own pace while still being there as a support and oh it just makes me gush so much.
That is nice, though the biggest obstacle would clearly be that Peridot also seems to be developing a relationship with Amethyst, one that is developing faster and was being hinted at since the beginning of her redemption arc. That’s the direction I’m pretty sure they’re going, bt like I said above, if Lapidot happens I shall welcome it without hesitation.
Panel 1: I’ve commented before about the long shots and how they often leave folks seeming even more distant and alone. But with all the people in this panel, this does the opposite. You get the sense of the circle of eyes, the rapt attention, the sea of bodies. They’re not alone and they’re also together. And they’re seen as together.
Panel 2: Grace won her bet! Also, is it just me or is Grace being a lot more open about her attractions now? What with making out with Sierra, openly acknowledging her relationship with both Sierra and Mandy and in this little exchange with Mandy.
And I wonder if it has partially to do with Ruth being outed to the point where at least she knew that Ruth was being blackmailed for her sexuality by Mary. Cause there’s this thing that happens when you’re queer and in an organization where if members of the authority power come out, it’s a lot easier to be open and out yourself, because you don’t feel as much that you’re putting a target on yourself.
But hey, no matter what, seeing more gentle flirting between Grace and Mandy is only a good thing.
Panel 3: Agatha loves love, though that blush makes me wonder if her being the “mirror” to Robin means they are also mirrored in sexuality as well.
Panel 4: I’m liking the Meredith in this universe. I always felt her character got the short-end of the straw, being set up as a cruel manipulator in her role as foil to Amber in Shortpacked! so it’s nice to see this version being introduced in such a solid moment of empathy, noting directly the circumstances that would make a direct addressing of wrongs or critiques somewhat unseemly or ill-timed.
Though that said, I like that Rachel doesn’t forgive Ruth and holds firm on the relationship being unhealthy owing to the power imbalance. Because if this is the beginning of a redemption arc for Ruth (this storyline is about redemption after all) and her rebuilding her life, then it’s an important note to have someone refuse to forgive her.
Because that’s the thing about redemption. You can do everything right, say goodbye to the person you used to be and devote yourself to good, but not everyone is required to forgive you and see past the harm you did in the past. And accepting that without turning it into self-loathing or self-abuse is a key part of redemption and not backsliding into nastiness.
I like your comment about Meredith! It’s true we never got to see anything but her being mean in the Walkyverse. Though, even there, it was ‘high school mean girl’ mean and not like, Mary mean. It’s nice seeing her soft side, especially if she’s Agatha’s roommate as I suspect.
Agatha is Word of Willis straight, but I don’t believe she’s ever said or done anything in canon to preclude her being LGBT+.
This strip made me appreciate Joyce a little more. There are times when I think she is out of her mind, but she wakes up every day and tries to be the best person she can possible be. How many of us can say that?
Well, it woudn’t be, for someone else. But there are times when I can hardly stand myself WITHOUT having multiple alters. I’m a pretty annoying person all things considered.
Panel 5: Joyce always looking on the bright side, wanting to see the best in people, so of course she’s all in on forgiveness and welcoming Ruth back. But I like that Sarah also reminds her that she can’t offer blanket forgiveness for everyone. Everyone is going to feel the way they feel about this.
But what I like the most and what will probably infuriate Mary the most is that not a single one of the objections had to do with the genders of the people involved. Both Sarah and Rachel have negative feelings with regards to Ruth’s actions as an RA. And Rachel objected to the power imbalance and yeah, relationships between a superior and a charge in general are super fucking dicey things on the best of days. But none went “ew”. None seemed even to object that it seemed like Billie and Ruth hated each other. It’s just, yeah, they’re dating.
And I think that will bother Mary the most because she was so convinced that when everyone saw the queerness of these two together that they’d rise up in support of her and tear down this relationship. And instead, the majority of the hall seems to ship it and the rest are more perturbed by Ruth’s position and previous actions than her sexuality.
Panels 6-7: Aw, poor Joyce, didn’t even get to do her religious monologue about forgiveness and Jesus dying on the Cross for mankind’s sins. Though I’m surprised the more devout of the hallmates like Agatha and Sierra are joining in on the groans.
And that thank you by Billie and that mirrored shot now without the crowd. I think it’s genuine. I think Billie is genuinely thanking Joyce for dispersing the crowd a bit and giving them space to breathe.
After all, both just came out and Ruth is dealing with a lot with regards to reintegration. Being out of the spotlight instead of lingering in that space is probably healthier for both of them and will really allow them to figure out their new dynamic in a positive way without having to deal with having their relationship publicly appraised by the entire hall.
And I don’t know, the whole thing feels hopeful. Like this whole recovery thing really might work out for both of them and what they build now might be healthier than what they had before.
Speaking as a devout Presbyterian, I can assure you that we sometimes find proselytizing of the variety Joyce is doing just as annoying as the rest of you do. It’s basically name-dropping. Joyce couldn’t sound any more pretentious if she were wearing a monocle.
On Panel 5: No, I don’t think that will REALLY bother Mary, that no one’s commenting on genders and homosexualty/romance. It just plays into the fallen world narrative, reaffirms her belief and self-righteousness, and recommits her to evil doing God’s work.
Mary cloaks her actions in words of faith, but looking at it, it’s really all about power. Specifically having power over someone else.
Her fued with Carla over skating in the halls was all about transitory power. She won, and Carla lost. Her actions against Ruth were about long term power and were negated only when pudding hair ignored her offer to “investigate and report” and opened the door. Her later offer to punish Carla on behalf of Billie? Revenge on Carla, and an opening for further long term power over Billie as being her enforcer, her Sejanus to Billies Tiberius. When Billie rejected this and slapped her, she threatened to report the incident as a last gasp at holding power over someone and was left powerless when Billie told her to go ahead.
It’s not about faith, it’s not about righteousness, it’s all about power. Mary has a bright career as upper management ahead of her. :-/
Of BTW, google Sejanus and look at the pictures of a young Patrick Stewart with curly brown hair (a very good wig apparently) dressed as a Roman Soldier in tight leather armour. You’re welcome. 🙂
Power and control over others isn’t an unknown motivation for intense religious fervor… I leave the percentages as an exercise for others to determine.
Ah, but who ever said that evil is not part of God’s work, mon ami? Sometimes, evil must be done that greater good may come of it. (Read in an arrogant French accent)
Grace and Mandy are super cute here. I’m glad Grace is getting her ramen, as is just.
Meredith and Rachel both bring up valid points and that’s important to acknowledge. Ruth was a shitheel. That said, Meredith’s worries about timing are valid.
I can save you guys the work: the answer to the inquiry is “Yes. All of them.”
C’mon, his wife and kid are still living in his hotel with the US paying through the nose for it and he and like half his direct minions shilled for his daughter’s clothing line through official lines.
I wanna point out that, while I don’t like the timing of Rachel’s disagreement, I like how she’s worded it. “That’s not an excuse to me for how Ruth’s behaved.” Just by wording it that way, she accepts that it may excuse her behavior for others. She also says “how Ruth’s behaved,” which is condemning actions rather than the person.
I really like teetotaler (haven’t found a convincing etymology for it), though for some reasons I associate counting the number of drinks others have with it.
I think the b-word is the only one that gets changed. This isn’t because Willis particularly objects to it, but because there was a veritable rain of it in the comments being aimed at Roz when she called Joyce out during class.
And that was today’s episode of DoA commentariat history!
To the best of my recollection, the other things that get changed are something that may or may not have the initials “Ess Jay Double-you”, and a certain quote about the day of the week rhyming with Newsday (the quote just gets deleted outright).
IIRC, the SJW one is deactivated. A shame because that was a favorite.
There was also an election related one that I assume is gone. Somebody’d been pushing one of the third party candidates – Gary Johnson, I think.
Yeah, “Johnson” got replaced with “Clinton”, and “Weld” with “Kaine”. It resulted in some really nonsensical comments, particularly because not everyone who mentioned them was supporting them.
Or get his name translated into English during the Middle Ages properly. I mean, he had to be pissed at least a bit about being called “Jehovah” all the time.
Just one response to add, since I don’t think anyone else did (though I could have missed it):
In Panel 5, contrary to Sarah’s “correction”, Joyce ISN’T trying to forgive on behalf of the group. She’s not usurping their choice of whether to forgive. All she is doing is pointing out that the option exists. Which is a pretty positive thing to do, overall (so long as it’s not overdone).
Joyce is right; at some point you have to have the guts to say: “The past is the past”. Yes, Ruth was a bully but that doesn’t change the fact that she needs help and support now. Additionally, she apologised and, I think, meant it.
Whilst Joyce can’t make that decision for the rest of them, she wasn’t saying that she would. She was saying that forgiveness is possible and I think that’s a very positive way of looking at the matter.
Joyce doesn’t get to decide forgiveness is possible for everyone else. Ruth apologizing and being in a terrible spot does not obligate others to forgive her. It sucks for Ruth, but she’s the one who abused everybody as RA.
Nothing is ever “the past”, people drag their grudges and resentments to the grave, and only supress them to make a social life even slightly possible.
1) Who the heck is…. ? Meredith ?
Are we just inserting random new floors into Clarke WIng?
How long till Richie Cunningham s brother turns up in the men’s wing ?
2) I predict Rachel is the next R.A.
She’s a softmore with the right balance of personable and responsible . I was going to predict her a few weeks ago but I forgot Rachel s name .
Even Mary doesn’t want to stick around to talk about Jesus. Not sure if that means Joyce’s proselytizing is exceptionally annoying or if Mary just doesn’t like thinking about the times Jesus talks about forgiveness and being nice to other people.
Old man Jepix glanced at a weary bunch of sailors, drunkards and adventourus idiots. They stood on the deck, frozen in whatever had occupied them the previous few precious moments, hands tangled in rope and tool. Like statues they were standing, eyes upwards with expressions of absolute anticipation.
“I could not believe it” The tattered man uttered, “at first.”
Eyes were finally letting the commotion over their heads go, finally trusting that it might be a truth steady enough as to not dissipate if none was looking. One could start to see red among the whites as the reality of it all started to set in.
Having gained their attention, Old Man Jepix steadied his salted voice, and continued,
“I said it was doomed, a fools errand concocted by madwomen and men alike. But I went along, I watched. This…”
he paused to grasp the reeling with his wrinkled hand. The wood gave a deep thump in his grip.
“…is something strong. It was built upon… I didn’t see it at first. I took it for madness. But it was not their madness, but my own that perverted my sight. This is built with nothing but love. Love in not one but all ways imaginable. Love that is endless and believing in the beauty of life.”
A gentle sob could be heard as a deckhand let bright tears roll down their face. The flapping of cloth over them ever present as a silent ovation.
“Today we go forth, my friends, knowing that love prevailed. We go to bunk knowing, that while this world has darkness and hate restlessly waiting in every corner, crossing and creek, light found a way, if not for a second of our short lives…”
His voice was firm, with a vibrato hinting that he himself was just as touched as his fellows.
“I can’t promise what happens tomorrow. No one can. Maybe the next sunrise has nothing but despair in its wake. I could not tell you with an honest heart. All I ask is to not let this go to waste. Take this with you, let it be tinder in the fire in your hearts…”
He waves upwards as if anyone could miss the wind in the sails. The wind they had been waiting for. There had always been the hint of it in the air. Days passing with an uncertain breeze never quite picking up the pace it needed to move the sails.
“…because just this once…”
The captain shouted their orders, idle hands became busy, as the clammer of a healthy crew rolled into its steady pace. Old Man Jepix turned to the horizon eyes moist with tears.
They should just take Joyce with them wherever they go. She can clear a room (or hallway) like nobody’s business. Because it’s nobody’s business, move along!
Heh. The circumstances are different in the strip, but I’m still laughing at the idea of an RA being considered enough of an authority for this to be considered an “uneven power dynamic.” Ours basically existed to… well, I’m not really sure. Presumably they did something.
Same. I’m not debating that Ruth abused the POSITION, but I think her purported abuse of RESIDENTS is kind of laughable. Yes, she threatened to break femurs. And I would really hope that by college age most individuals would understand that is not a realistic threat in this particular situation. Dina is the most literal person in the comic, and if she wasn’t genuinely afraid for her life around Ruth, I think everyone else should be just fine. If Ruth “abused” anyone, it’d be Billie, and that relationship is all sorts of complicated. As Joyce is learning, sometimes there are just way more shades than black and white.
I got no love for Jesus, but Joyce always steals my heart. I know she’s making deposits in his box, of all the love I wouldn’t give. But when it’s her givin’ it I feel okay somehow.
Guys guys guys, there’s a very simple compromise here – everyone in this stupid school is a horrible person, some are just horrible in humorous or sympathetic ways. Just resume quietly resenting eachother for the next four years like normal college students.
Ok so liking Rachels attitude here, Agatha thinks its cute whereas Rachel can see just how toxic the relationship is (I’m assuming the girls on the floor have seen other stuff that we haven’t)
Its not always easy to go against the tide but Rachel does that by pointing out to Meredith that the situation Ruth is in doesn’t change how Ruth acted towards everyone earlier
I’d have thought Joyce had gotten past her sermonising but I guess a scene like this will cause her to go back to what she knows but it might also be a good learning experience for her to realise exactly what everyone thinks of it
Joyce will never get past her sermonizing, she’s just not attacking people’s sexuality with it anymore.
As for Ruth, we’ve also seen a lot that the others on the floor haven’t. All of Billie & Ruth’s relationship, for example. No, none of it changes how she behaved in the past and they don’t have to forgive her. We’ll see how she behaves in the future.
In all honesty I really hope she can move past her “beat the non-believers over the head with the Christian stick” phase because, to me, she may as well be quoting from The Lord of the Rings or Harry potter and shes biographical I assume she will (at some point)
Its true we have but I’m of the mindset of wait and I see before I forgive someone, I mean the words I’m sorry are easy to say but changing the behaviours that caused the problems in the first place, that’s hard
While I wouldn’t mind if Joyce left the Elementary Ed path since it sounds like she was more interested in her Mrs degree anyway, AND she’s got the gift of math, it strikes me that in certain settings sermonizing is not always a bad thing. Or Joyce could become a lady minister and shake things up a bit (I don’t get the sense that her church would be one with female clergy).
Plus the nice thing about Joyce to me is that even if she’s beating with the Christian stick, she’s doing it altruistically. Fortunately she’s been working and is still working on the perspective-widening thing, but Joyce clearly truly cares about other people and intercedes (ha!) on their behalf. If someone’s standing up for those who are marginalized, I don’t really care what deity they’re doing it in the name of.
Except she’s saying that if Billie can forgive then everyone else should as well which isn’t her place to decide as Sarah rightly pointed out and then the Christian stick came out and brought up a mythological being
Also is Joyce looking a bit like Faz in the 6th panel?
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fuckin bronchitis
I mean “THOU SHALT NOT ROLL THINE EYES WHEN I AM SPEAKINGST TO THOU”
Bronchitis is no excuse! Some of us had to fill in while you were gone.
Yea, and ain’t nobody got time for that!
rusty
we missed yooooooou
We did.
I actually worry when you’re gone (or if you’re not in the top five)!
Bronchitis sucks.
Wait a second, why did MARY leave!?
She’s more into the smiting of sinners, not so much on the forgiveness part.
Well, one reason is this puts a damper into her fantasy that the rest of the hall constitutes a silent majority that condemns the queerness of those like Ruth.
And that’s one of the reasons that straight allies speaking up directly are so often necessary. Because bigots use the silence to assume total support for their violent bigotry and thus feel more confident in pushing on that and going to extreme lengths in service to that.
She’s a be-leaver?
And then she saw her face?
But then I was her faaaaaaaace
Now I stole her femur
Without a traaaaaace
Of spite in my mind
“was”? I mean, I know I’m in Colorado, but I don’t think you can get a contact high from a state.
Rocky Mountain High?
I’m not gonna lie, I was really worried about you, which seemed weird since I only know you as the person who posts first every time. Glad you seem to be feeling better.
I’ve had bronchitis before.
A proper attitude is the key to beating it.
Just stay phlegmatic.
(That and meds.)
*flees for dear punning life*
*deer
I see what you did there.
AAaaaaaaahhh I see what you did there.
You better run.
And if you start hearing any new moans, ya should probably go back to the doctor.
It kinda looks like 6th panel Sarah is just groaning so hard that her speech bubble has four tails.
She’s groaning in harmony with herself.
Headcanoned
the barbershop groantet
now at your local college dorm
+1
Buy their new hit single, “Oh God Not This Again!” (The B-side is “Fucking Mondays”)
OH God, not this again
Like really can we not
You do this every time
Just once just don’t
It’s just a thought
Can we
Can we
Can we not do
THIS
A—
GAIN
“Fuckin’ Mondays” has some really creative use of Lorenzo Music samples.
There are people who can probably do that.
Lalah Hathaway can sing a three-note chord by herself, so, yes, there are. Some singers can generate overtones which harmonize with their notes. Hathaway can make *two* at the same time.
And it sounds really eerie.
You should check out Mongolian throat singing. It’s pretty incredible the way they can sing harmonies with themselves.
Yeah, I was thinking about people like that. Some Inuit singers might be able to pull it off as well.
She groaned from her mouth, her chest, her stomach and using vantriloquism, made it seem like someone on the other side of the hall also growned.
I’m imagining that that sounds like Chewbacca.
Why does anybody care tho.
They LITERALLY just had POLYAMOROUS LESBIANS MACKIN IN THE HALLWAY WHY IS HAND HOLDING A BIG DEAL
A) Grace and Sierra are not lesbians, both are bi.
B) Because they didn’t know about them dating (for Grace, Mandy, and Agatha) and there are some valid reasons not to approve (as Rachel brought up).
A) Didn’t know that, doesn’t really change my point tho.
B) Rachel is correct this is true
Still tho. Hand holding isn’t… IMPRESSIVE, enough, I guess?
Well, Grace cares because she just won a bet with her girlfriend and Agatha cares because she’s a little ray of sunshine who thinks they’re adorable. The rest of the chat is about whether or not Ruth’s forgiveness worthy.
It’s more about what the hand holding means, not the spectacle of it.
Relationships with an uneven power dynamic, as Rachel well put it, are discouraged for good reason. RAs wield power over the students in their hall, and favoritism in such situations can be a real danger.
That and, for a few others, they just did not know these two were dating. This matters to Agatha who thinks they’re adorable, and it matters to Grace and Mandy because they had a bet over it.
No I meant why do they care now that Ruth isn’t their RA (or, MOST LIKELY isn’t their RA)
Plus, hand holding doesn’t really MEAN they’re dating? I hold hands with my FRIENDS all the time. It may just be a show of solidarity.
Because she hasn’t been fired yet.
Oh, plenty are of the mind (including Ruth) that this is but a formality and Ruth will be on her ass shortly. But as of now, she’s more or less still the RA.
Also, you might hold hands with your friends, but this is definitely a coming out and standing with her girlfriend. Especially as everyone already knew about the sexuality thing at least thanks to Billie having to mention it as part of telling everyone about Mary’s blackmail of Ruth.
Also, even if the bad acts are over, that doesn’t mean they weren’t bad acts, and a person’s past bad acts can reflect on them in the present.
And in this case, although it never happened, Billie had the opportunity to blackmail Ruth. “Do what I want or I’ll tell them about us AND about your drinking.”
….Yeah? So?
It’s another problem with RAs dating their charges.
Not only was the power dynamic uneven, Ruth made a conscious decision to abuse that dynamic.
Because Ruth was Billie’s RA. She was in a position of power over Billie. Like Rachel said, it’s an uneven power dynamic.
Neither Grace nor Sierra nor Mandy are the R.A., so they can mack on each other all they want, and it’s not against the rules. (Though there’s a point where they should take it to the Fuck Zone.) Ruth macking on her residents is.
My point tho is that they’re not mackin’, they’re holding hands. What’s the big deal about THAT? It’s NOT a sign of a relationship.
Some people tend to read way too much into things. They just happen to be right in this case.
Fair!
Hand-holding is more often a sign of a relationship than not. Hell, especially for queer folks. It’s why one of the most overused shots in queer movies is the surreptitious entwining of the hands out of sight as the couple starts to date. it’s the visual signal that these two are getting together, knowing that a full PDA is likely to be received poorly.
While there might also be innocent means of holding hands, most people would be justified in two women of the same gender holding hands and presenting before everyone else as an admission of a relationship.
I would agree with you if holding hands wasn’t also just a straight up sign of solidarity for… ALL people, in the world. Not just us queers.
True. But I think the context heavily implies a relationship or at least invites that interpretation pretty heavily.
I should note: Ruth is Canadian. Not sure of the culture in the West of Canada – but in the East, you don’t hold hands unless you’re a) a child under 12, b) comforting a sick person who’s ill enough to be hospitalized (or someone who’s close family is ill enough to be hospitalized) – and in which case it’s more of a you-rest-your-hand-on-top-of-the-other-person’s thing than a fingers-interlocked thing) or c) in a romantic relationship with the person you’re holding hands with. If Ruth is from that region of Canada, it’s totally a romantic signal.
(Eastern Canadians are kind of standoffish on the PDA thing. Like, I know a lot of het partners who don’t even peck on the cheek in public. We’re not as bad as England for not doing casual physical contact, but we’re definitely a lot more reserved on that front than USians seem to be. Which suits me fine – I hate physical contact from other folks even more than most Canadians, so sometimes even a friendly back-pat or what have you has me uncomfortable. On that note, a weird Eastern Canadianism: in certain settings, a hug or friendly slap on the back is less “intimate”/romantic than hand-holding. Not uncommon for friends to greet each other with hugs here – but god help you if you hold hands with a non-SO.)
As a Western Canadian, PDAs are pretty common there. Like, sitting on laps, throwing a leg casually over the person you’re sitting next to, things like that are pretty common in relationships, even in public.
And I’ve held hands with friends in public as well. I think we’re just generally more relaxed and casual out there than Back East.
No idea about Toronto, though; wasn’t in Ontario long enough to observe. They consider themselves western Canadian; the actual West looks at them–far side of Winnipeg, the lateral middle of Canada–and pinches the bridge of their nose.
Ontario is kinda in the middle – hand holding means they might be very good friends (though it’s more common for kids and teenagers – around college, it drops off) or they could be dating.
She’s a Leafs fan, so probably East?
She’s from Ontario – it’s kinda its own thing. Not quite east, not quite west. Same with Quebec.
Before they started their ‘sexy lesbian suicide pact’, Ruth spent way too much time trying to make Billie’s stay at Clark Hell: stealing Billie’s cheerleading sweater, DEFACING Billie’s cheerleading sweater, starting a fight with Billie in the hall, threatening Billie in the hall later…
After the pact, they kept up the antagonism to keep people from realizing that they were a couple (the only reason Mary caught on was due to the one time Billie was able to leave WITHOUT being thrown thru the door).
And it WORKED! with the sole exception of Mary, everybody thought that Ruth was still the Tyrant RA making an example of poor Billie.
Now the Tyrant RA’s biggest victim has just stepped up to her tormentor, taken her hand, and is shooting everyone a look that says ‘If anybody gives Ruth a hard time, I will rip their femurs out and shove them where the sun doesn’t shine!’
That right there is a pretty big sign of a relationship.
Multiple people already either knew or assumed that Ruth and Billie were a couple:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/04-it-all-returns/diddlin-2/
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/04-it-all-returns/chloe/
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/04-it-all-returns/superglue/
And Billie’s behavior afterwards, such as sleeping in Ruth’s bed and organizing the entire floor in Ruth’s defense, has not exactly contradicted that belief. I’m just surprised that Mandy thought it needed confirmation.
And sometimes, French kissing just means they’re the lead actors in a play! Why’s it a big deal? It doesn’t have to mean they’re in a relationship!
Just gals bein pals
You hear hoofbeats, don’t assume zebras.
Instead, you should assume a couple of guys holding coconuts.
Because Ruth had power to ruin Billie’s life and used that to torment her on a regular basis and only stopped when Billie started a relationship with her. That’s concerning.
(Yes, I know that’s not wholly accurate, but it’s what the floor knows)
I’m referring to Agatha and MMmmmmmeeeeredith (?), mostly.
Grace. Grace is the one saying “called it” (if that’s who you’re talking about). Meredith is the one talking to Rachel in Panel 4.
Grace too then, yes.
People are attracted to drama, sexual/gender identity/poly-or-otherwiseamory aside.
Wait, people still care about polyamorous lesbians?
I thought like… everybody was polyamorous lesbians.
Due to my gender identity I CAN’T be a lesbian, and I’ve never been more disappointed than when I realized that.
It isn’t the handholding itself so much as the implication of it, that Billie is still with Ruth despite all that happened and Ruth is still the RA at this moment, though she might not be later. It is true it could be seen as friendship, but several people on the floor knew they were together thanks to Carla and so it creates an unspoken bias that it means they are still in a relationship.
Oh Joyce…
if you can’t pacify them, joyicfy them
If you can’t joycify them, use nunchucks.
Actually, just skip steps one and two, we’ve decided that nunchucks is the new step one.
Wait, when did the comments section become part of the comic?
Since 2010.
1892, according to my headcanon.
Which is now part of the comic.
It shows a level of self awareness I didn’t know this comic had.
It’s learning…
When we became so predictable that Willis could guess what we were going to say months in advance.
Ah, trying to be positive when people wanna get their two cents in. I know Joyce’s feeling well! ^_^
…. but that whole doctrine is centsless.
*flees for dear punning life*
Oh, no need to run. Your pun-ishment will be very slow in coming, indeed!
You can bet your bottom dollar on it! 😉
You did it again!
You better hide this time. I’m not gonna be so merciful.
Both of your gravatars are appropriate for the conversation AND kind of adorable.
This is why this thing needs Like buttons or upvotes.
Not just for them, but for you, too.
lol, I like that the entire floor is comedically tired of Joyce’s Christianity. They don’t dislike her for it, just… GROOOOOAN
More of her proselytizing. I’m a Christian, and I would find it annoying. Like, stop rubbing our shared religion in everyone’s collective face, we get it already.
No, they will know we are Christians by our love, and by the frequency with which we compare real-world events to semi-obscure Biblical stories that probably didn’t happen even from a Christian perspective but are still cool because Daniel basically busts a ghost by spreading flour over the floor and tracing footprints like a regular gumshoe oh my god you guys the Daniel apocrypha are fucking incredible.
Daniel was a ghostbuster?
More like godbuster. And dragonslayer.
Making people feel obligated to Jesus for dying on the cross for them is Christianity’s original sin.
Wel Joyce really knows how to clear a room.
joyce brown: moment killer
Verily, she has slain the moment and left it a smoking ruin for all to survey.
I mean, since she’s defusing an uncomfortable conversation for Billie and Ruth, I’m not sure that’s such a bad thing here.
Why would Mary groan and leave? Or is she off-frame?
She’s groaning cuz there’s gay happening
She thinks Jesus was wrong about that “forgiveness” thing.
Not to mention he part “let he who is without sin cast the first stone”. Funny how a lot of so-called Christians tend to forget that and the whole “judge not lest ye be judged” parts.
She wanted to use that line to be judgmental but Joyce wasted it being forgiving and cute.
Mary believes in punishing the wicked directly as a messenger of God, giving away this forgiveness malarkey for free cramps her style.
“We’re gonna forgive the chick who was a shitty and dangerous RA, but Mary’s irredeemable.”
???
The girl who nearly drove someone to suicide? Yes. Yes she is.
I mean, to be FAIR, she didn’t PLAN for that to happen. She’s an asshole, not an evil mastermind.
The worst she’s actually done is blackmail a shitty RA (who was probably gonna end up self destructing eventually whether or not she got involved) and indirectly misgender somebody.
She’s a dick, but she’s a redeemable dick.
Yet once she found out, she did everything she could to keep anyone from intervening.
Like I said, she’s a dick.
I’m just saying it’s not her fault that Ruth was in there way deeper than she thought. And she didn’t really know how bad it WAS.
Again, not justifying/defending what she did, but devil’s advocates are necessary for a healthy discussion doncha know
Keeping people from intervening in a suicide attempt is not much better than intentionally driving them there. She also asked the next day for permission to drive Carla to that state.
Big ol dick, that Mary.
Not a very competent one tho.
“If someone tells you they’re “just playing Devil’s Advocate”, exit the conversation immediately. All they’re really doing is stroking their own ego or trying to make themselves look morally or intellectually superior.”
There are times it’s a useful approach, but it very often is as you suggest.
It’s often a good idea to have someone to argue the other side to point out flaws in your plans before they actually show up. In the context of “Mary just wanted to study”, it’s all pretty much been said and shot down long ago.
I am insulted! I’m not morally superior to anybody, I’m a grade-a dickweed!
It’s not as if we’re discussing REAL LIFE assholes, this comic is fiction. It’s okay to try to examine all points of view of a character.
If you wanna ignore it just because you think I’m stroking my own ego, be my guest.
what you say about comics that are trying to deal with real issues is often interpreted as how you’d react in real life. And, in my experience, it’s mostly true.
Anyways, Mary isn’t irredeemable, she just has a lot further to go. Ruth has been redeeming herself for a while now. Maybe not enough for everyone, and that’s fine. But she’s not as awful a person as Mary.
Mary doesn’t even seem to realize she’s done anything wrong.
Note–I mean a WHOLE LOT further. Ironically, she needs a come-to-Jesus moment.
When they found out Ruth wanted to die, and Grace called the RM, Mary tried to get her to leave so she could continue her blackmail. She followed that garbage up with telling Billie she couldn’t possibly REALLY be mad at her for that, and tried to get permission to continue tormenting Carla.
She may not have planned from the start to drive Ruth to suicide, but when she found out that it was a possible result of her actions, she clearly did not care.
Fuck Mary.
Ya know I forgot about that.
Fair enough! I will concede, Mary is a saturday morning cartoon villain.
Now then, wake me up when Dina’s back.
I wish she was. Fuck, the communities I belong to tend to have no less than 3 major groups actively gamifying trying to drive our youth to suicide on any given day.
I swear, the modern day is rapidly revising what counts as cartoonish villainy anymore when the bigots are so much worse than any Saturday Morning Cartoon could ever conceive of.
Now, I agree. Having dealt with bigotry my whole life I can understand that viewpoint.
But the Captain Planet villains were doin some REAL shady shit, dawg.
And yet we elected one to be the President (like literally, many 80s cartoon villains, especially the one’s based on wanton cruelty and greed were based on Donald Trump).
Okay…
Skeletor tho
Nah, too homoerotic to be Trump. That’s clearly Pence.
DON’T INSULT MY BOI SKELETOR LIKE THAT
I may or may not be waiting for Trump to try forging Rings of Power in an active volcanoe.
Oh he made the trip to the Russian volcano, Bezymianny, years before running for office.
As Cerberus notes… Trump is kinda like a cartoon villain, a sort of preening, malicious, dangerous self-caricature of incompetence and greed.
@Rukduk: Please.
Sauron wanted to enslave every living being to his will, but he was smart. No way he’d accept being compared to Trump.
Not to kibitz, but Rachel is the one who called the RM, in that linked strip, and in the arc says she’s going to, earlier.
Your bigger point about Mary not caring about the human risk (or bothering to find out, and being the self-appointed moral center (sicl, and butting heads with anyone who is neutral or a known antagonist, to cover things up for her own ends, is spot on.
What does “indirectly misgender” mean? Because it doesn’t sound like it means the horrible you’re-really-a-man way Mary treats Carla to me.
Indirectly as in, as far as I can remember, she never outright referred to Carla with male pronouns or said “You’re a man!” or something. She IMPLIED it, through stuff like “take you to the men’s dorm” and putting quotes around ‘she’.
Still horrible, yes, but just one incremental level LESS horrible than actually doing it.
“Take you to the men’s dorm where you belong” was her full quote. And then smirked and gloated when that stopped Carla in her tracks. So, yeah, pretty directly and unambiguously intended to misgender as a means of hurting her.
I mean that she didn’t outright SAY THE WORDS, is my point. She did do it, yeah, but it was ambiguous enough where somebody who didn’t know Carla was trans may misinterpret it to mean other stuff (like I did, all those years ago. The comic was different then. Ana Chronistic was just a legend. A word on the wind.).
When I first read that strip I had no clue what it meant. Then again, when I first read that strip I might not have understood even if Mary had directly referred to Carla as a guy so I D K
If you don’t realize that Carla is trans, it comes off as a weird non-sequitur comment. If you do, it’s pretty obviously a direct attack – “You’re really a guy. You belong here, not with us.”
You don’t have to say words to make a direct and intentional bigoted attack on someone.
@timemonkey:
While that’s true, I think Sageress meant that Mary didn’t say it explicitly.
Though I disagree with their earlier implication that this makes it even slightly less awful, since what matters is that the person she directed it at understood her meaning.
The fact that she didn’t outright use a slur excuses witnesses (or readers) for not recognizing how shitty it was, but it doesn’t actually make it any less shitty of an action.
I honestly think the only reason she didn’t ever use a slur directly is that Willis didn’t want use that slur directly.
For some stupid reason, there are people who get into huge arguments about whether it’s really a slur.
Not being comfortable with using one, or not wanting to risk stress out any readers any more than necessary would both be perfectly valid reasons to avoid including any kind of slur.
Though in this case, not using a slur puts the focus on the misgendering, and makes it clear that by itself, that’s a nasty thing to do.
I imagine I’m not the only cisgender person who thought it was merely rude, and that arc (plus the accompanying comments) taught me that misgendering is by itself at least as bad as any slur you could use.
So I’d say it was a good choice.
So your point is that you didn’t think it was a real transphobic attack even though it fucking was.
Yeah, sometimes it’s better to stop fucking talking when people are telling you you’re defending something morally indefensible.
And was lining up to do the same thing to Carla.
And was trying to force everyone into a mandatory, involuntary prayer. (Not nearly as bad, but still very bad.)
And also we’re DEBATING forgiving the RA who’s by and large STOPPED her abuse, versus Mary who’s shown no sign of stopping save under the most grisly of threats.
This is the point. No one is irredeemable. Even Mary.
But they have to change. They have repent and sin no more, to use religious terminology. Mary’s young, she could change. But she’s shown no sign of it. Ruth has.
Ruth is admitting to being wrong and being a horrible RA. Mary doesn’t see herself as doing anything wrong whereas Ruth can at least admit it. Not excusing anybody, just saying a bit of humility goes a long way.
This is a big part of it. You have to be sorry to ask for forgiveness.
We’ve reached a point in our society where “asking for forgiveness” is a form, a public ritual, that is undertaken with no actual requirement for sincerity or earnestness.
Those who undertake this public ritual are even evidently “entitled” to take offense if they are not given the forgiveness they have asked for, regardless of their actual sincerity.
Oh, it’s this happy time again?
True redemption requires an individual being willing to accept that they have done something for which they need to redeem themselves. Mary is unwilling to see anything wrong with the harm she causes.
Ruth, on the other hand, knows she’s screwed up.
Mary is almost tragic in a weird sense. She gains nothing from what she does and in her attempts to create her version of heaven on earth has created her own personal hell. I don’t hate Mary, I pity her.
Mary isn’t worthy of pity. If she spent the energy she expended scorning the world learning about it instead, she wouldn’t be half the bigot she was. Speaking as a Christian, you should never give anyone a free pass for bigotry, even if it’s due to ignorance and indoctrination. Forgiveness only goes so far as it is accepted. Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s and to assholes what’s coming to them.
INB4 “turn the other cheek”: That’s actually a subversion of a power dynamic, where in order to deliver a second slap, the slapper would have to acknowledge the slappee as an equal rather than a lesser (slapping with an open palm instead of the back of the hand). Basically, don’t voluntarily surrender your humanity to your attacker. Stripped of cultural context, it loses meaning.
Huh. So what about “If someone takes your coat, give him your shirt also?”
Curiously: “Go that extra mile to prove yourself a good citizen.” The phrase comes from a discussion of non-military national service obligations and Imperial taxation. Jesus was explicitly refusing to endorse non-compliance or even active resistance to the laws of the occupation.
Sorta like the “give to Caesar what is Caesar’s”.
There’s a lot of “make nice with Rome” stuff in the NT that’s of perhaps dubious origin, perhaps related to attempted rapprochement with the Roman government (and attempts at distancing from Jewish rebellions).
Such as the Pontius Pilate stuff.
I think it was about how the soldiers had the right to demand coats but not shirts and this was putting them into an awkward position? Same with the extra mile: they could demand that someone carry their stuff for a mile but it would be awkward to say ‘no stop now give me my stuff back’ OR to explain why their stuff is being carried past that limit.
Cultural and historical context. AKA, how to properly use the Bible. AKA, what so many people forget about.
Like Cersei, Mary does what she does because it makes her feel good. Knowing that she is the moral center of the world makes her feel good. Knowing that God will punish all the transgressors around her makes her feel good.
Like the hypocrites in Matthew 6:5, she already has her reward in full.
Actually, if I recall the Old Testament right, the concept of redemption is akin to “redeeming” a hostage in much the same way that one redeems a coupon: by paying a ransom price. Specifically, in the case of sin, a blood price. First it was animal sacrifice, then Jesus on the cross. But either way, it’s more transaction than transformation.
…. oh, wait, outside of Biblical mythology. Yeah, okay, there you’re right.
The chick who was shitty and dangerous in large part due to severe mental illness and substance abuse problems? Yeah, I believe she does get a chance to try and make amends while she’s rebuilding her life from the ground up.
Yeah, Ruth has displayed several moments of kindness and caring, like trying to tell Amber about her asshole dad or getting Billie a cheerleader’s outfit (bad as that turned out). She is clearly bad at expressing positive emotions and dealing with people, which manifests in cruel and abusive behavior, but she easily outshines the callously spiteful Mary, who has never displayed any humanity or emotion beyond hatred/bigotry. So screw Mary; Ruth is messed up, but way cooler.
I can never like a Leafs fan, no matter how good of a character arc they have!
Yeah, forget kind words of forgiveness. The only words that Leaf players deserve are skateological.
…..
*flees for dear punning life*
(What can I say? I’m feeling a bit Puckish tonight.)
*flees again for dear punning life*
I get it!
CUZ THEY’RE SHIT!
No, because they’re nominally hockey players, and so they wear skates.
Mary’s not irredeemable, but she’s shown no motion towards seeking redemption.
Something tremendous would have to happen to force her to think differently — literally force her — before she can have a shot at redemption.
I mean, like, again, devil’s advocate here… It’s been like a month and a half, in universe. People forget this a lot because this comic takes months to cover single days, but it HAS NOT been that long for these kids.
I wouldn’t really expect her to completely turn around yet considering it’s been about a week since the Carla stuff happened.
I’m saying, like anybody else, she deserves a CHANCE.
What does “a chance” mean to you? This is not rhetorical. Does it mean “If she genuinely transforms herself, then don’t be 100% unwilling to forgive?” Or does it mean “Don’t just assume she will be a horrible person tomorrow?”
The first one, sure.
The second one, NO F’N WAY. That’s a good way to continue getting abused. If someone is horrible yesterday, horrible today, and shows no sign of regret or repentance or change, the ONLY sensible thing is to assume they will be horrible tomorrow, and protect yourself.
The present Mary does not, in the present time, deserve any kind of “chance.” The future Mary might, but only if she is substantially different from the present Mary. As long as she is the kind of person who, when told she can’t continue to abuse people, says “Just let me have Carla” then she deserves NO CHANCE of any kind, because anything one might describe as a “CHANCE” in this context just means no more or less than “a chance to hurt someone else.”
I’m really not sure why you’re defending her, as she is today. She’s given absolutely no sign of even beginning a turnaround. None. If and when she does, then talk to us about “chances.” Till then, it looks a lot like you’re siding with a vicious, dangerous, actively and willfully abusive person.
In fact, Mary should be compared to Joyce. She was (possibly) brainwashed into believing hatred and ignorance.
The difference is that when faced with the real world, Joyce chose to change what she was taught, while learning to accept and support others. Mary on the other hand chose to keep spreading hatred.
The part of the sermon that sunk in for Joyce was “love thy neighbor” — she sees god as loving, and when faced dissonance, chooses the believe in the love and not the hate. This is a refection of who Joyce is at heart.
When faced with the same dissonance, Mary chooses to believe in the hate and not the love. This is also a reflection of who Mary is at heart.
“Till then, it looks a lot like you’re siding with a vicious, dangerous, actively and willfully abusive person.”
Cannot agree more. The devil does not need an advocate, for chrissakes.
the greatest trick the devil pulled was making people think he needs a lawyer
Giving someone a chance doesn’t by necessity mean that they should be given free reign. The notion that they should be given a chance already implies that what they are doing is wrong and needs to change. For that matter ‘playing devil’s advocate’ is often incorrectly used as a means to allow abusers to perpetuate abuse, but the correct method would be to take a moment to consider how and why the devil believes they are right.
Ideally, this should give us insight into which exact factors have influenced Mary to become the way she is. The real problem with playing devil’s advocate is that any insight such reflection might give us doesn’t undo the damage she has done or make her sympathetic.
Sageress isn’t siding with Mary. They’re saying that Mary is wrong and can’t change if she’s not given a chance to change. Where Sageress misses is when they say Mary deserves a chance. Nobody DESERVES a chance. A chance is a privilege Mary must earn first and foremost by acknowledging that she’s wrong and showing a genuine desire to become better and so far Mary has done no such thing.
Pretty much this, yeah.
Though I’m of the mind that everyone, no matter how bad of a person they are, has some redeeming quality deep down. Something. Mary probably doesn’t because Willis writes her to be the most hateable human ever spawned, but still.
My point is, she should be given a chance. Remember that this whole thing, from the Carla problem to now, only took place over like a WEEK. Nobody is gonna turn around and repent in that period of time.
Depends what you mean by “given a chance”.
In comic, Mary is still a potentially dangerous villain. I don’t think any one there who might be vulnerable to her should give her the chance to do more damage. She’s shown no sign of repentance or even of understanding that she’s done anything wrong. At this point, she needs to be isolated and watched, for the other girls’ safety.
Ruth on the other hand, while she has done harm, has been through a crisis and appears to have changed. She’s acknowledged that she’s done wrong. This doesn’t necessarily earn immediate forgiveness and certainly not trust, but it does make it reasonable to give her a chance to prove that the change is real and to actually earn forgiveness.
I know exactly how long it’s been; I maintain a timeline. (Though I admit to being kind of slack about keeping it up to date lately.) The characters’ personal development doesn’t really move at realistic in-comic rates, though. It moves at the speed of plot, and the plot is a whirlwind if you look at it from the perspective of how much is happening from one in-comic day to the next, rather than how fast it’s moving in our universe.
I mean, look at how far Joyce has come in the last six weeks. If Mary’s made any movement in that same period, it’s been in the wrong direction.
Mary isn’t irredeemable, but the first step in any potential redemption is that she has to stop being awful, and she hasn’t done that.
As one of my favorite webcomics put it, “Redemption is a rare and special thing, after all. It is not for everyone.”
Mary can be redeemed, but it does not mean that she will be redeemed. And it would take a LOT to redeem her.
What is that, Dilbert?
Order of the Stick.
I love that line and yeah, I think that gets to the heart of the original question.
Mary isn’t guaranteed to be irredeemable, but her road is long and painful and she shows no sign or starting on that path before she reaches her final end. And much like with Ruth, she will not be able to undo the damage she did along the way and some will be justified in never forgiving her no matter what she did.
Ruth? She’s starting that road. Showing earnest contriteness for the ways in which she did her job were harmful and seemingly willing to make a fresh start. Between the two, Ruth has a much better chance of seizing that rare and special thing.
And Ruth is going to have a lot less brutal of a road.
As others have pointed out, Ruth was a mean and bullying RA because her mental illness deprived her of all emotions but anger. Mary joyfully tried to drive at least one person to suicide because they loved a woman and Mary thought that was sinful.
That’s a lot less psychic debt to pay.
Apparently you read a much more epic Dilbert than I.
It’s from the cartoon I believe.
The first step is having her tragic past revealed. Possibly with sad flashbacks.
Don’t worry, billie and ruth are Juuuust frieeends, and the’ll always be juuuust frieeends.
(guess what show I’m referencing and get a cookie)
Also, I just had an epiphany… Joyce in panel 6 looks just like my high school crush. Damn you Willis! Well played.
GROOOOAAAAAAAAANNNNNNN
how do you pay for ramen for just one night? 5 dollars buys like a months worth
You fork over a nickel, like I gave your mom once.
Maybe there’s a really nice shop a block or two away that sells authentic Japanese?
You buy a months worth, keep 29 nights of it for yourself, and give the other person just one.
Not if you truly understand Ramen (and I don’t mean the packaged instant noodles with flavouring kind). Find and watch the movie Tampopo (warning, has NSFW content) and you will have taken the first step to truly understanding the great mystery and wonder that is true Ramen. 🙂
Or, if you don’t want to go through all that, just understand that there’s a difference between the packaged cheap stuff and “restaurant-grade noodle soup with meat, veggies etc in the broth.” Much like ordering macaroni and cheese as an entree vs. a box of Kraft Dinner.
I guess Jesus took the wheel, he drove them all away.
*buh dum tish*
Just the mention of the Crucifixion made everyone cross.
*flees for dear pun-spamming life*
Son, ah swear ta Gahd….
You gonna make me keep running all day? I’m out of breath!
They’d hung around long enough.
I’d say they nailed it with that pun.
Is it too late to Resurrect this pun thread?
Perhaps, but you can always cast Speak With Dead.
I am dissapointed at how long I haven’t called this ship “Rubi”.
Joyce is a uniter. 😛
Rubi the Sapphi…c relationship. Hey, it’s almost an SU reference. 😛
The main differnce between Dumbing of Age fans and Steven Universe fans is their willingness to forgive.
Danny acts kinda dumb.
DOA Fans: BURN HIM!
Yellow Diamond plans to commit mass genocide.
SU fans: Well I’m sure she has a good reason.
It’s racism, I tell ya! Rock Supremacy! To them, all Meatfolk are criminals!
I think it comes down to the way things are framed.
In DoA, like with most media, there are certain characters portrayed as irredeemable. When we look at Blaine and Toedad, we don’t see people who can change and be redeemed. So when someone does something wrong, we feel it is more acceptable to be less tolerant of harmful actions, even of milder ones.
In SU, no one is portrayed as irredeemable. They all have motivations and emotions and even their extremely harmful actions have reasons behind them. They don’t get away scotfree with their harmful actions, but the focus is less on punishment, more on understanding and correcting them so that they will not do the same thing again.
It is a different type of framing and framing things differently greatly changes how we react to characters and how we want to deal with them (though characters like Connie and Dorothy are still judged as Mary-Sues by some people which greatly annoys me as someone who relates to them…)
I’d be inclined to agree if not for how the SU fanbase have reacted every single time something has been revealed about Rose in the past that reveals she wasn’t always the way she appeared in the recording she made for Steven before he was born. Every single time, the discussions have been overwhelmingly in favour of the notion that Rose was always the infallible Messiah Pearl has built her up to be. The show itself doesn’t do this of course, but the fanbase can take weeks or months before they’re able to process new information.
Yeah, but Danny isn’t one of them, and really hasn’t been shown to be all that bad a guy. He’s not perfect, but there are other characters who everyone likes who have done worse.
I’ve been where people use my name as a synonym for fucking things up, and it sucks. Fortunately, I had supportive parents, and, even when I had depression problems, self-esteem wasn’t an issue. (It was just that everything else sucked.)
I just don’t like it, even though I know Danny is fictional. I hope no one here does that in real life. I hope it’s just a holdover from the other universe.
It doesn’t help that Joe used the phrase ‘Dan it up’ in comic. This fandom will turn anything into a meme.
I’m reminded of the briefing scene with General Dreedle in Catch-22.
You know, I like Meredith. She hasn’t been in many comics and she’s only had like two speech bubble’s worth of lines, but she seems nice.
“STOP HELPING ME” -Ancient Klingon Proverb
Hahaha, Agatha, you are the funniest.
Joyce, you are now the second funniest. Sorry.
We need more Agatha in DoA. She’s great. She reminds me of someone I know, actually. I haven’t talked to her in a while. Perhaps I should.
Did Billlie actually figure Joyce to react more magnanamously than , say, Rachel?
(Mary doesn’t count on the scale here.)
There she goes again.
This is what happens when you roll a 20 on your diplomacy roll and a 1 on your charisma check.
HA LAUGHING FOR DAYS
Wait, why would you make a CHA check after succeeding a Diplomacy check? Is the DM just a huge asshole? Or did you roll a Nat 20 despite having a total -2 points in Diplomacy and this is how the DM justified that, er, juxtaposition?
I guess the Diplo role is to see if you’ll say the right thing, and the Charisma role is to see if people will actually believe you?
Diplomatic roll to make your point, charisma roll to sway them to your point of view. In this case they understood the point but were unmoved by Joyce’s religious references.
Normally those would both be the same roll. After all, Diplo is a CHA skill so it already has the CHA modifier.
Separate rolls for separate effects.
But the “what you say” part is roleplaying, not rollplaying, unless your DM is really bad at DMing.
I love how Billie stands by Ruth’s si…. Oh, Agatha already said that.
OK, but Ruth was still a horrible R… yeah, they said that too.
This relationship is unhealthy in many wa… That said that too, huh?
EVERYTHING WILL BE BETTER THROUGH JESUS LO… DANG IT!!!!
STOP STEELING OUR LINES, CAST! WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE THE RUNNING COMMENTATORS AROUND HERE!!!!
Clearly, we’re going to have to step up our game. More anime references! More Cerberus-like critique! More cowbell!
No! More cowbell is low-laying fruit. We can do better.
Cowbells aren’t low-hanging fruit, they’re low-drooping flowers.
*flees for dear pun-flooding life*
*runs after Reltzik with sais and nunchucks
It’s all a secret plot on my part to never have my role stolen by the comic. My posts can’t even fit in those tiny panels. Muahahaha!
And now it’s no longer secret.
I would love to see someone photoshop that! Panel after panel with analysis.
I’m half-tempted to try right now.
I know, right? It’s so tempting to see how far down past size 1 font a person could scale text and have it still look like (albeit, unreadable) text in the panel. XD
And then a Cerberus-style analysis of that analysis.
BWOM
Fuck Zone #16 and #18 are the best so far. Willis is a master of sexual anatomy.
So is Joyce wearing a plaid and white jacket or a white shirt with a plaid vest? Whatever it is, it’s open over a camisole or something, because that collar is in no way connected to what we see between the plaid.
Maybe a fuzzy robe over some kind of cami and shorts? her hair is in a towel so I assume she just took a shower.
Jesus forgives so we don’t have to
Have we ever actually seen Ruth be mean/overbearing to people on the floor other than Billie?
She dragged Sarah and Mary to the first floor meeting.
I guess she also yelled at the Rachels to throw out their trash?
Not as much, no, but she did make a number of threatening comments and blowhard statements to them, neglected floor meetings, was generally ill-tempered to people, and now has been revealed to be in a relationship with one her charges, AND the charge she was most unpleasant to. Billie was her main target, but it wasn’t isolated to Billie alone.
Dunno, let’s check her first strip
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2010/comic/book-1/01-move-in-day/agreements/
She’s been pretty aggressive about getting people to come to floor meetings. Not to the extent she displayed towards Billie, though.
She slapped a sharpie dick in Mary’s face.
She bodily dragged people to an RA meeting.
She took Joyce’s gloves and chucked them out a window.
She’s elbowed Sal in the ribs before (though, granted, Sal put her hands on Ruth first to keep her from hitting Billie).
She’s threatened everybody on multiple occasions.
We’ve never seen her target anyone as harshly, but she constantly used threats of violence and intimidation:
– Rounding up people who tried to skip the first floor meeting
– When she forced Danny and Sarah not to bail on Joyce’s party,
– Forcing everybody out of the elevator to make room for Billie
– Demanding to know what Joyce was hiding and snatching that flyer for the Questioning Individuals group from her
–
Slapping that dick onto Mary’s faceIt seems Ruth’s actions occupy a bit of a gray area that might not technically break rules but is enough to alienate the rest of the floor.
Oh, they for sure break rules. But who has the [insert your favorite organ] to tattle?
The Mighty Wurlitzer may be Rachel’s. I don’t know much about her and was a bit surprised that she was the one who reacted like that today.
I think Rachel has the liver to tattle.
The liver is the best organ. Yes even better than your musical one. It doesn’t have 500 functions like the liver.
Sarah and Mary (before we knew Mary was a bongo)
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2010/comic/book-1/01-move-in-day/stragglers/
Everyone in the elevator
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-3/01-if-the-shoes-split/will/
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-4/02-i-was-a-teenage-churchmouse/rounds/
These could be considered mean but they’re also funny so I don’t know
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-4/03-up-all-night-to-get-vengeance/no-2/
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-4/04-the-whiteboard-dong-bandit/male-anatomy/
Don’t even know what to make of this
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/03-the-butterflies-fly-away/grab/
and yeah
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/03-the-butterflies-fly-away/ruthless/
This suggests things have happened weren’t privy to
In terms of getting physical, I can think of a couple.
She dragged Sarah and the other skippers to the first floor meeting.
When Mary complained to her about the WBDDB, she drew a dick on her hand and slapped it onto Mary’s face.
Also there was the time with Billie (before anything happened between them I think) and the elevator where she tried to threaten people off it to make room for Billie and if I remember correctly, actually physically pulled someone (Dina?) off.
When Joyce was trying to be a ‘cool rebel’, she threw Joyce’s gloves out the window, I think.
(And I say this as someone who is reasonably forgiving of Ruth – and almost all of the student characters really – and a Ruth/Billie shipper.)
She is TECHNICALLY a criminal, all things considered.
Pffft, half the main cast are technically criminals since they sipped on booze. Technically means shit until they do something serious (which, to be fair, Ruth has committed several assaults and batteries).
I meant the assault stuff. And the destruction of property stuff.
Mostly those things, which are worse than drinking underage.
Come to think of it, a LOT of the cast is criminals. Is this secretly a women in prison movie?
Not until Joyce scoops out someone’s eyeballs with a rusty spoon.
She means business!
That’d be sick
Do it Willis
Yep, I see Joyce is the uniter.
Joyce sure knows how to clear a room.
That joke was already made upstream.
If she ever gets tired of Christianity, she could become a Scientologist.
…
*flees for dear punning life*
Please don’t joke about that. My uncle lost a good chunk of his life and most of his future to those goons. Scientology would be a step down from Christianity, even for Mary.
Wait what did Jesus do 2000 years ago?! Dammit it was just getting interesting!
Died.
Spoiler alert, geez.
It’s been 2000 years, I call Late Arrival Spoiler. Your own fault. 😛
They bring him back at the end of the series, but it’s pretty hard to understand. I’m guessing production was rushed and they just threw in whatever they could find that seemed to fit the theme.
I heard there was a sequel in the works, but it’s been in development hell for, like, [i]ever. And what’s more, some people keep coming out with these fake trailers promising that it’s going to come out any day now.
From what I heard there was a sequel made, but the fan base is broken over whether it is canon or not.
I heard the producers didn’t even read the original.
(by the way, you need to use angled brackets (< and &rt;) and close your italics tags using a /i in order to format italics)
Okay, how do you create >?
and paste it into text and you’re telling me I could have just typed it in the whole time? Fucking HTML.”>…are you fucking kidding me
GOD DAMMIT
Okay, that one was on me. I accidentally used the hotkey for close curly quotes (alt-shift-[, producing ”) instead of straight quotes (“) and thus didn’t close the title element for the acronym tag.
…and of course the straight quotes are autocorrected into left smart quotes, thus further obscuring my point. I officially give up. No more computer science, I’m becoming a chemical engineer.
Pablo, look at me. BREATHE. You got this. No HTML will overpower you!
You can totally see where the writers and producers were influenced by “Zoroastrianism”. Sure that one has a really small fan base nowadays but it was, like ten times more popular than “The Bible” before Jesus was introduced in the last couple seasons.
Borrowed some bits from “Sumerian” (*cough* The flood and the Ark *cough*) as well. But you can probably forgive that, after all early episodes of “Akkadian”, “Assyrian” and Babylonian” ripped that off as well..
Even one episode of “Achaea” ripped that off.
Clearly rushed. That was supposed to be a three-day cliffhanger, but it was only a day and a half.
Famously said that he didn’t want the people executing him on trumped-up charges of sedition (motivated mostly by the wounded egos of a few washed-up old priests who threatened to complain to the Emperor if he wasn’t executed) held personally responsible. Given that he had been tortured and put through two kangaroo courts, that was pretty generous of him.
To be fair, Billie is Alpha bongo, Problem Solver(TM). Any relationship she’s in is automatically uneven in power dynamic. That’s what Rachel meant, right?
A….alpha bongo?
The hell is an alpha bongo?
A comment section replacement for another b-word.
You also can’t say that one line from Street Fighter, it just gets deleted.
For you, the third day of the week may have been Wednesday for your entire life. But for me, it was Tuesday.
For me, that’s the second day of the week, as my week start on Mondays.
Why tho?
The street fighter thing, not bongo.
Because it got overused when people found out about Sal traumatizing Amber in the robbery.
Which never really made sense to me, because that day sure as fuck was not ‘Tuesday’ for Sal.
It was a Thursday!But also that’s… a lame reason to ban a phrase.
At least with the Mary phrase that has been banned what with the studying she was just trying to do, that fit the whole “no don’t defend this character” narrative.
I think it comes down to Willis often having to moderate every single comment to weed out the trolls and at one point just got tired of seeing the exact same phrase turn up over and over.
The sheer pitch of it showing up was unreal. Eventually he got tired of it. Same thing with the b-word. Originally it wasn’t banned, but then it got used so often at once that Willis banned the word (because folks kept throwing it at Roz).
An alpha bongo is the first bongo in a bongo band.
Uuuuugh, more conflicting feelings!!! Did Rachel really HAVE to broach that subject now? No, she absolutely didn’t. Is she wrong….no…no, she isn’t. I’m with Sierra on that one. No one should be mean to Ruth or be obligated to dislike the situation, but Joyce doesn’t get to declare the slate wiped clean for everyone on the floor. Everyone has a point here, but this does not seem like the time for all the residents to publically put in their two cents on Ruth and Billie’s relationship. God help us if Walky comes crashing into this.
Rachel’s got a point about the uneven power dynamic, but I still like how everyone on the floor (except Mary, fuck Mary) is shipping Billie and Ruth.
There’s a lot of queer ladies on the floor. I imagine there’s a lot of queer headcanons that have been floating around so the canon deal is probably very exciting.
Yeah, in any rumor mill, there’s always some blasted headcannon.
*flees for dear punning life*
*still pursuing Reltzik with grappling hook in hand*
It sorta reminds me of when Korrasami was confirmed canon I called all my friends so we could “squee” together.
I remember that day! I wasn’t much of a Korra watcher, but I remembered going “Screw him, why don’t they go out?”
This was basically my reaction: http://itswalky.tumblr.com/post/128122296027/when-youre-not-in-the-fandom-but-hear-a-gay-ship
Oh god, this is like those Lapis X Jasper shippers!
Quick, to the ocean!
Lapis X Peridot shipper here. Keep Jasper as far away as possible.
God it’s so toxic isn’t it
I’m GLAD she’s a gem gorilla now
As opposed to the Crystal Gems, who were gem guerrillas.
Yeah, but they stopped that to keep it fair. Jasper just needs to change her rage to a smarter, greater cause.
I’ve honestly never understood the Lapis/Peridot ship.
They’re literal lesbian farmers straight out of Rush Limbaugh’s nightmares. What’s not to like?
Lapis just spent months in a deeply unhealthy, highly toxic, abusive on both ends intimate relationship (not a romantic one, but definitely intimate), honestly the last thing I can see lapis looking for is a new intimate relationship. I just don’t see it ever happening, lapis is going to need a long time before she’s emotionally ready to open herself up to anyone.
Now, I don’t hate the Lapidot ship and if it happens I’ll be surprised but accept it with open arms, but I really don’t think Lapis will be Peridot’s eventual love interest.
Plus it’s this nice, slowly budding relationship that neither one seems to be aware is growing, but hopefully eventual discover together, most likely by accident. And they have such good chemistry together. And Peridot’s letting Lapis emotionally heal at her own pace while still being there as a support and oh it just makes me gush so much.
That is nice, though the biggest obstacle would clearly be that Peridot also seems to be developing a relationship with Amethyst, one that is developing faster and was being hinted at since the beginning of her redemption arc. That’s the direction I’m pretty sure they’re going, bt like I said above, if Lapidot happens I shall welcome it without hesitation.
Comic Reactions:
Panel 1: I’ve commented before about the long shots and how they often leave folks seeming even more distant and alone. But with all the people in this panel, this does the opposite. You get the sense of the circle of eyes, the rapt attention, the sea of bodies. They’re not alone and they’re also together. And they’re seen as together.
Panel 2: Grace won her bet! Also, is it just me or is Grace being a lot more open about her attractions now? What with making out with Sierra, openly acknowledging her relationship with both Sierra and Mandy and in this little exchange with Mandy.
And I wonder if it has partially to do with Ruth being outed to the point where at least she knew that Ruth was being blackmailed for her sexuality by Mary. Cause there’s this thing that happens when you’re queer and in an organization where if members of the authority power come out, it’s a lot easier to be open and out yourself, because you don’t feel as much that you’re putting a target on yourself.
But hey, no matter what, seeing more gentle flirting between Grace and Mandy is only a good thing.
Panel 3: Agatha loves love, though that blush makes me wonder if her being the “mirror” to Robin means they are also mirrored in sexuality as well.
Panel 4: I’m liking the Meredith in this universe. I always felt her character got the short-end of the straw, being set up as a cruel manipulator in her role as foil to Amber in Shortpacked! so it’s nice to see this version being introduced in such a solid moment of empathy, noting directly the circumstances that would make a direct addressing of wrongs or critiques somewhat unseemly or ill-timed.
Though that said, I like that Rachel doesn’t forgive Ruth and holds firm on the relationship being unhealthy owing to the power imbalance. Because if this is the beginning of a redemption arc for Ruth (this storyline is about redemption after all) and her rebuilding her life, then it’s an important note to have someone refuse to forgive her.
Because that’s the thing about redemption. You can do everything right, say goodbye to the person you used to be and devote yourself to good, but not everyone is required to forgive you and see past the harm you did in the past. And accepting that without turning it into self-loathing or self-abuse is a key part of redemption and not backsliding into nastiness.
I like your comment about Meredith! It’s true we never got to see anything but her being mean in the Walkyverse. Though, even there, it was ‘high school mean girl’ mean and not like, Mary mean. It’s nice seeing her soft side, especially if she’s Agatha’s roommate as I suspect.
Agatha is Word of Willis straight, but I don’t believe she’s ever said or done anything in canon to preclude her being LGBT+.
Really getting your money’s worth on that Lit degree, I see!
I’ve always liked Meredith, but that’s entirely because she’s drawn as a very attractive woman. And I guess because I like assertive, driven people.
Agatha comes with a built-in blush: she already had it here http://www.dumbingofage.com/2017/comic/book-7/03-the-thing-i-was-before/thereturn/
This strip made me appreciate Joyce a little more. There are times when I think she is out of her mind, but she wakes up every day and tries to be the best person she can possible be. How many of us can say that?
And then you remember she’s wearing milk jugs and realize, yes, she’s out of her mind.
She’s wearing milk jugs specially modified by an engineer. If that’s out of her mind, then you may as well diagnose me now.
*phone rings*
What’s that? I have Asperger’s? Well, that explains—
What? No, I didn’t actually take out my phone. Who is this anyway?
*hangs up phone*
…I’m gonna get DID someday, aren’t I? And I’ll probably annoy myself half to death, too.
it’s still a little weird tbh yeah
“…I’m gonna get DID someday, aren’t I? And I’ll probably annoy myself half to death, too.”
It’s not so bad all things considered.
Well, it woudn’t be, for someone else. But there are times when I can hardly stand myself WITHOUT having multiple alters. I’m a pretty annoying person all things considered.
Panel 5: Joyce always looking on the bright side, wanting to see the best in people, so of course she’s all in on forgiveness and welcoming Ruth back. But I like that Sarah also reminds her that she can’t offer blanket forgiveness for everyone. Everyone is going to feel the way they feel about this.
But what I like the most and what will probably infuriate Mary the most is that not a single one of the objections had to do with the genders of the people involved. Both Sarah and Rachel have negative feelings with regards to Ruth’s actions as an RA. And Rachel objected to the power imbalance and yeah, relationships between a superior and a charge in general are super fucking dicey things on the best of days. But none went “ew”. None seemed even to object that it seemed like Billie and Ruth hated each other. It’s just, yeah, they’re dating.
And I think that will bother Mary the most because she was so convinced that when everyone saw the queerness of these two together that they’d rise up in support of her and tear down this relationship. And instead, the majority of the hall seems to ship it and the rest are more perturbed by Ruth’s position and previous actions than her sexuality.
Panels 6-7: Aw, poor Joyce, didn’t even get to do her religious monologue about forgiveness and Jesus dying on the Cross for mankind’s sins. Though I’m surprised the more devout of the hallmates like Agatha and Sierra are joining in on the groans.
And that thank you by Billie and that mirrored shot now without the crowd. I think it’s genuine. I think Billie is genuinely thanking Joyce for dispersing the crowd a bit and giving them space to breathe.
After all, both just came out and Ruth is dealing with a lot with regards to reintegration. Being out of the spotlight instead of lingering in that space is probably healthier for both of them and will really allow them to figure out their new dynamic in a positive way without having to deal with having their relationship publicly appraised by the entire hall.
And I don’t know, the whole thing feels hopeful. Like this whole recovery thing really might work out for both of them and what they build now might be healthier than what they had before.
Speaking as a devout Presbyterian, I can assure you that we sometimes find proselytizing of the variety Joyce is doing just as annoying as the rest of you do. It’s basically name-dropping. Joyce couldn’t sound any more pretentious if she were wearing a monocle.
HTML succeeds and I’m undone by grammar. This is how my nightmare starts.
It’s a weird nightmare.
Well, at least she hasn’t quoted “The White Man’s Burden” which I can’t help but feel Carol might have had her read at least a couple times.
I’m pretty sure that’s actually a work of satire.
Shhhh. The racists don’t know that. They took it at face value. (Read in hushed, nearly conspiratorial, whisper)
I don’t know. I’m pretty sure it was straight. It was a different time. Kipling was pretty imperialist.
We are now in dire need of artwork depicting Joyce and other DoA characters in a monocle and top-hat.
On Panel 5: No, I don’t think that will REALLY bother Mary, that no one’s commenting on genders and homosexualty/romance. It just plays into the fallen world narrative, reaffirms her belief and self-righteousness, and recommits her to
evildoing God’s work.Mary cloaks her actions in words of faith, but looking at it, it’s really all about power. Specifically having power over someone else.
Her fued with Carla over skating in the halls was all about transitory power. She won, and Carla lost. Her actions against Ruth were about long term power and were negated only when pudding hair ignored her offer to “investigate and report” and opened the door. Her later offer to punish Carla on behalf of Billie? Revenge on Carla, and an opening for further long term power over Billie as being her enforcer, her Sejanus to Billies Tiberius. When Billie rejected this and slapped her, she threatened to report the incident as a last gasp at holding power over someone and was left powerless when Billie told her to go ahead.
It’s not about faith, it’s not about righteousness, it’s all about power. Mary has a bright career as upper management ahead of her. :-/
Of BTW, google Sejanus and look at the pictures of a young Patrick Stewart with curly brown hair (a very good wig apparently) dressed as a Roman Soldier in tight leather armour. You’re welcome. 🙂
Power and control over others isn’t an unknown motivation for intense religious fervor… I leave the percentages as an exercise for others to determine.
Ah, but who ever said that evil is not part of God’s work, mon ami? Sometimes, evil must be done that greater good may come of it. (Read in an arrogant French accent)
Funny how that doesnt really go over well with the victims of said evil
I love these kids. Just….ALL THE KIDS
Grace and Mandy are super cute here. I’m glad Grace is getting her ramen, as is just.
Meredith and Rachel both bring up valid points and that’s important to acknowledge. Ruth was a shitheel. That said, Meredith’s worries about timing are valid.
And Joyce….no. You don’t get to make that call.
(Also, off topic note: if you’re in the US, I recommend calling here: https://twitter.com/Celeste_pewter/status/835960695350972418 to support the H.R. 111, an inquiry into Trump’s conflicts of interest)
I can save you guys the work: the answer to the inquiry is “Yes. All of them.”
C’mon, his wife and kid are still living in his hotel with the US paying through the nose for it and he and like half his direct minions shilled for his daughter’s clothing line through official lines.
Then call about it if you’re USAian. 😛
Nope, sorry, entire ocean between me and them. I’m a dirty European socialist.
I wanna point out that, while I don’t like the timing of Rachel’s disagreement, I like how she’s worded it. “That’s not an excuse to me for how Ruth’s behaved.” Just by wording it that way, she accepts that it may excuse her behavior for others. She also says “how Ruth’s behaved,” which is condemning actions rather than the person.
…I really like words, okay?
Now that you’ve pointed it out, I really like it too.
How about these words, kiddo…
“Sandstone”
“Coin”
“Lemons”
“Ostentatious”
“Lumpenproletariat”
“Cacophanous”
“Teetotaler”
“Liger”
“Pugnacious”
“Yclept”
When Lumpenproletariat became an English word?
I really like teetotaler (haven’t found a convincing etymology for it), though for some reasons I associate counting the number of drinks others have with it.
Yeah, except “Cut her some slack at the moment” isn’t the same thing as “excuse how she’s behaved” in the first place.
“Hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobia”
…. uh, if anyone actually suffers from that, my appologies.
I always imagine that when one can in fact read that word, one is indeed fully cured of it.
I saw someone say bongo, and apparently it gets changed to bongo? I want to see if it’s true
YESSSSSSSS
Wonder what else it works for.
ASS
FUCK
SHIT
COCK
Bee Movie was pretty good
POO
my god
It’s the lack of ending punctuation that makes it something that someone might plausibly post.
One of these things is not like the others.
Yeah, roosters are animals. The rest of the words are just about excrement or sex.
…. wait, is ASS about excrement, or sex, or both, or neither?
…..
ANARCHY!
IT’S ALL UNRAVELING!
ASS is also an animal.
I wanna play, I wanna play!
Fuck
Shit
Damn
Hell
Ass
Dick
Pussy
Tits
bongo
Bastard
Asshole
I think the b-word is the only one that gets changed. This isn’t because Willis particularly objects to it, but because there was a veritable rain of it in the comments being aimed at Roz when she called Joyce out during class.
And that was today’s episode of DoA commentariat history!
To the best of my recollection, the other things that get changed are something that may or may not have the initials “Ess Jay Double-you”, and a certain quote about the day of the week rhyming with Newsday (the quote just gets deleted outright).
IIRC, the SJW one is deactivated. A shame because that was a favorite.
There was also an election related one that I assume is gone. Somebody’d been pushing one of the third party candidates – Gary Johnson, I think.
Yeah, “Johnson” got replaced with “Clinton”, and “Weld” with “Kaine”. It resulted in some really nonsensical comments, particularly because not everyone who mentioned them was supporting them.
Let’s see if I can post ‘banjo’.
Hmm, guess not.
He sent Jesus down to die because Yahweh cannot kill himself.
Like in Terminator 2!
Or get his name translated into English during the Middle Ages properly. I mean, he had to be pissed at least a bit about being called “Jehovah” all the time.
Did you say “Jehovah”?
Jehovah! Jehovah! Jehovah!
(At least, I hope we’re both referring to the stoning scene in “The Life of Brian”)
That’s blaspheming!
“… but in Latin ‘Jehovah’ starts with an I!”
That’s intentional. You aren’t supposed to write down his full name. Odd publicity method, but it seems to have worked.
Agatha is my new favorite after Walky.
Well, that went better than expected.
I love Agatha.
Just one response to add, since I don’t think anyone else did (though I could have missed it):
In Panel 5, contrary to Sarah’s “correction”, Joyce ISN’T trying to forgive on behalf of the group. She’s not usurping their choice of whether to forgive. All she is doing is pointing out that the option exists. Which is a pretty positive thing to do, overall (so long as it’s not overdone).
In a more lighthearted post (or not, because Faz), Joyce’s face and body language in the penultimate panel is reminding me heavily of Faz.
Joyce is right; at some point you have to have the guts to say: “The past is the past”. Yes, Ruth was a bully but that doesn’t change the fact that she needs help and support now. Additionally, she apologised and, I think, meant it.
Whilst Joyce can’t make that decision for the rest of them, she wasn’t saying that she would. She was saying that forgiveness is possible and I think that’s a very positive way of looking at the matter.
Joyce doesn’t get to decide forgiveness is possible for everyone else. Ruth apologizing and being in a terrible spot does not obligate others to forgive her. It sucks for Ruth, but she’s the one who abused everybody as RA.
No, she doesn’t. But she has the right to try to persuade others to her point of view, just as Rachel does.
Yeah, she would. She doesn’t have the right to accept forgiveness for them or to say Jesus already did for them.
Nothing is ever “the past”, people drag their grudges and resentments to the grave, and only supress them to make a social life even slightly possible.
Yeah, that crowd of people lingering in the hallway was getting weird
It’s fun having all these extras comment on the dorm’s happenings. Glad Mandy and Grace called back on the latter’s suspected coupling.
It looks like Joyce didn’t put the arm brace on after getting out of the shower.
…gravatar retest.
I’m logged in and everything over there, but it just doesn’t want 😐
I’m seeing a photo of a kitty, if that helps.
Confirming that you now look like something in danger of being grabbed by Trump.
I do see a cat! An adorable cat, at that.
“I did! I did tee a putty tat!”
-Tweety Bird
For one sleepy bleary-eyed moment, I thought that was Mary in panel 4 talking about cutting Ruth some slack. O.O; Woke me right the hell up.
1) Who the heck is…. ? Meredith ?
Are we just inserting random new floors into Clarke WIng?
How long till Richie Cunningham s brother turns up in the men’s wing ?
2) I predict Rachel is the next R.A.
She’s a softmore with the right balance of personable and responsible . I was going to predict her a few weeks ago but I forgot Rachel s name .
Sophomore^^
The only reason I’m voting for Carla is because of the joy viewing Mary’s reaction would cause me.
Joyce for the rescue! 😀
No. Kindheartedness to the rescue. Most of them are happy for her coming back. Joyce made it weird.
Even Mary doesn’t want to stick around to talk about Jesus. Not sure if that means Joyce’s proselytizing is exceptionally annoying or if Mary just doesn’t like thinking about the times Jesus talks about forgiveness and being nice to other people.
Pretty sure it’s the second one.
Oh, I’m sure she cares about them, alright. When it suits her, of course.
Wow. That’s amazing how more adult Joyce looks in this strip.
Damn, look at Joyce, rockin’ that top.
THIS IS ADORABLE
Agatha’s never not adorable. ^_^
Grace and Agatha right now:
Old man Jepix glanced at a weary bunch of sailors, drunkards and adventourus idiots. They stood on the deck, frozen in whatever had occupied them the previous few precious moments, hands tangled in rope and tool. Like statues they were standing, eyes upwards with expressions of absolute anticipation.
“I could not believe it” The tattered man uttered, “at first.”
Eyes were finally letting the commotion over their heads go, finally trusting that it might be a truth steady enough as to not dissipate if none was looking. One could start to see red among the whites as the reality of it all started to set in.
Having gained their attention, Old Man Jepix steadied his salted voice, and continued,
“I said it was doomed, a fools errand concocted by madwomen and men alike. But I went along, I watched. This…”
he paused to grasp the reeling with his wrinkled hand. The wood gave a deep thump in his grip.
“…is something strong. It was built upon… I didn’t see it at first. I took it for madness. But it was not their madness, but my own that perverted my sight. This is built with nothing but love. Love in not one but all ways imaginable. Love that is endless and believing in the beauty of life.”
A gentle sob could be heard as a deckhand let bright tears roll down their face. The flapping of cloth over them ever present as a silent ovation.
“Today we go forth, my friends, knowing that love prevailed. We go to bunk knowing, that while this world has darkness and hate restlessly waiting in every corner, crossing and creek, light found a way, if not for a second of our short lives…”
His voice was firm, with a vibrato hinting that he himself was just as touched as his fellows.
“I can’t promise what happens tomorrow. No one can. Maybe the next sunrise has nothing but despair in its wake. I could not tell you with an honest heart. All I ask is to not let this go to waste. Take this with you, let it be tinder in the fire in your hearts…”
He waves upwards as if anyone could miss the wind in the sails. The wind they had been waiting for. There had always been the hint of it in the air. Days passing with an uncertain breeze never quite picking up the pace it needed to move the sails.
“…because just this once…”
The captain shouted their orders, idle hands became busy, as the clammer of a healthy crew rolled into its steady pace. Old Man Jepix turned to the horizon eyes moist with tears.
“…this ship sails true”
They should just take Joyce with them wherever they go. She can clear a room (or hallway) like nobody’s business. Because it’s nobody’s business, move along!
Joyce confirmed as MAGA! (Make America Groan Again)
is this why willis said rachel was gonna be important down the line?
I like how Billie thanked Joyce, that was a small, sweet touch.
I like how she’s thanking her not for her forgiveness sentiment, but for getting everybody to shut up and go away.
Second-panel Grace reminds me of season-2-finale Princess Pony Head.
“I called it! Totally called it!…I called it.”
Doesn’t the comic itself make the comment section redundant? 🙂
Heh. The circumstances are different in the strip, but I’m still laughing at the idea of an RA being considered enough of an authority for this to be considered an “uneven power dynamic.” Ours basically existed to… well, I’m not really sure. Presumably they did something.
Yeah. And since Billie had blackmail dirt on Billie, the power dynamic was very even anyway.
Well, yes, I suppose Billie did have blackmail dirt on Billie, but I’m not sure it would have done her a lot of good… 🙂
Ruth’s abuse of the position kind of made her loom larger than an RA normally would.
Same. I’m not debating that Ruth abused the POSITION, but I think her purported abuse of RESIDENTS is kind of laughable. Yes, she threatened to break femurs. And I would really hope that by college age most individuals would understand that is not a realistic threat in this particular situation. Dina is the most literal person in the comic, and if she wasn’t genuinely afraid for her life around Ruth, I think everyone else should be just fine. If Ruth “abused” anyone, it’d be Billie, and that relationship is all sorts of complicated. As Joyce is learning, sometimes there are just way more shades than black and white.
Constantly threatening your charges with violence is abuse. It’s hardly the most severe thing she’s done, but she’s definitely abused her residents.
Someone posted a bunch of links showing examples of her abusing the residents, here in the comments, so I won’t do it again.
Earliest example would be physically dragging non-attendees to her first floor meeting. This is literally kidnapping.
You regular commenters crack me up. It adds to joy of reading this comic everyday.
I have to also add that this isn’t sarcasm. I actually enjoy reading the comments.
Well, naturally. Who’s ever heard of a toxic comment section? *glances surreptitiously at Cyanide & Happiness*
*see, it’s funny because cyanide is toxic*
I got no love for Jesus, but Joyce always steals my heart. I know she’s making deposits in his box, of all the love I wouldn’t give. But when it’s her givin’ it I feel okay somehow.
Is that a song? Because that sounds like a song. And if it isn’t a song, you should write a song.
“Hospital”, Meredith, the word you’re looking for is “hospital”.
Is that the wind in the trees? A Greek Chorus? Or Joyce clearing a room?
Guys guys guys, there’s a very simple compromise here – everyone in this stupid school is a horrible person, some are just horrible in humorous or sympathetic ways. Just resume quietly resenting eachother for the next four years like normal college students.
Ok so liking Rachels attitude here, Agatha thinks its cute whereas Rachel can see just how toxic the relationship is (I’m assuming the girls on the floor have seen other stuff that we haven’t)
Its not always easy to go against the tide but Rachel does that by pointing out to Meredith that the situation Ruth is in doesn’t change how Ruth acted towards everyone earlier
I’d have thought Joyce had gotten past her sermonising but I guess a scene like this will cause her to go back to what she knows but it might also be a good learning experience for her to realise exactly what everyone thinks of it
Joyce will never get past her sermonizing, she’s just not attacking people’s sexuality with it anymore.
As for Ruth, we’ve also seen a lot that the others on the floor haven’t. All of Billie & Ruth’s relationship, for example. No, none of it changes how she behaved in the past and they don’t have to forgive her. We’ll see how she behaves in the future.
In all honesty I really hope she can move past her “beat the non-believers over the head with the Christian stick” phase because, to me, she may as well be quoting from The Lord of the Rings or Harry potter and shes biographical I assume she will (at some point)
Its true we have but I’m of the mindset of wait and I see before I forgive someone, I mean the words I’m sorry are easy to say but changing the behaviours that caused the problems in the first place, that’s hard
While I wouldn’t mind if Joyce left the Elementary Ed path since it sounds like she was more interested in her Mrs degree anyway, AND she’s got the gift of math, it strikes me that in certain settings sermonizing is not always a bad thing. Or Joyce could become a lady minister and shake things up a bit (I don’t get the sense that her church would be one with female clergy).
Plus the nice thing about Joyce to me is that even if she’s beating with the Christian stick, she’s doing it altruistically. Fortunately she’s been working and is still working on the perspective-widening thing, but Joyce clearly truly cares about other people and intercedes (ha!) on their behalf. If someone’s standing up for those who are marginalized, I don’t really care what deity they’re doing it in the name of.
Except she’s saying that if Billie can forgive then everyone else should as well which isn’t her place to decide as Sarah rightly pointed out and then the Christian stick came out and brought up a mythological being
Also is Joyce looking a bit like Faz in the 6th panel?
I pointed that out earlier, it half-looks like she’s about to pull out a series of graphs demonstrating exactly how many years it’s been or something.
Please. She’s going to become an internet porn-lord (lady). We all know it. It is her destiny.
I love that as a Mormon, Agatha still seems to be accepting.
“You’re paying for ramen tonight”
“BUT I DON’T HAVE 57 CENTS”
I wonder if Lucy’s upbeat nerdness can help?
Where did Becky go?
I think she’s still hiding the fact she lives on the floor from Ruth, so she must’ve have left with the crowd to avoid being noticed.
Proselytizing! It’ll make the whole room decide they have something better to do or your money back!