Dumbing of Age Book 13 Kickstarter is in its final TWO days! It’s the… penultimate day! And yesterday, we unlocked LYLE, the twelfth magnet, and we’re at striking distance of unlocking JENNIFER, a potential bonus THIRTEENTH magnet! A thirteenth magnet for a thirteenth book!
The Kickstarter ends Tuesday night at 11:45pm Eastern, and as of this writing we’re under… $3800 from unlocking said JENNIFER magnet. I think it might happen! That COMPLETE MAGNET POWER tier might be even completer this year! THINK OF THE VALUE.
So for the penultimate time: My Peer Group’s Smoochy Chart Is Basically Now An Ouroboros will collect the thirteenth year of Dumbing of Age, spanning the four storylines that start on August 22, 2022, and complete on August 15, 2023. This includes strip commentary, behind-the-scenes artwork, and new character designs into a 218-page tome with luxurious glossy paper all bound up into a sturdy, full-color presentation. It’s fancy! There’s 24 Patreon bonus strips collected! There’s rejected strips! There’s… laundry!
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same energy as doing things to own the libs 🤔
roz knows that move
Okay I don’t ever drink can someone explain to me what Roz means by “scam for shots”
Also that’s a valid way to try food honestly
I too am a tea-tugger (though to be honest I don’t really drink tea either), but I am assuming she is just referring to the fact that they pretended to be at least 21 to drink, and then they had shots. I don’t think its a slang term, but I could be wrong.
I think by “scam for shots” she means put the person in a scenario where they will be screwed over by photos/videos of the event.
But, I could be wrong; only Willis knows for sure.
I think this is just Roz projecting. “Scam for shots”, in the simplest interpretation, would be a women going to a bar, and then letting/encouraging guys to buy them drinks, while having no real intention of getting intimate with them. The ‘scam’ here is leading the guys on.
If I’m correct about this, of course, it just further justifies my absolute feeling of antipathy for Roz.
Richard Feynman told us all not to buy women in bars any drinks. You’ll never get laid that way. For an interesting take on the situation, see _Surely You’re Joking, Mr. Feynman_.
I guess that makes sense…”scam” doesn’t feel like quite the right phrase to use for just sneaking into a bar underage.
If that is her intended usage, I wonder if that would kind of toe the line of slut-shaming
My cousin uses the phrase ”blink for drinks”, I’m speculating it means the same thing. She describes the strategy as going to a bar with no money, deliberately trying to get men to buy you drinks by acting interested, then giving them fake phone numbers. If there’s shame in it, its for being scammy, not slutty.
It is manipulative, yes, but given the fact that both happen to be in a *bar*, a certain degree of manipulation is par for the course / expected as part of the venue. It’s bad form to go to the carnival and become upset about being scammed at the arcade – that’s all part of the experience. Don’t wanna get manipulated – stay off the arcade.
And somtimes the social convention works out. Can’t win if you don’t play, right?
Not quite slut-shaming; more akin to blaming women for men assuming that accepting a drink is a tacit agreement to have sex later on. It’s one of those very specific forms of male entitlement.
As discussed by Swedish duo Icona Pop.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wywgggaj6cs
I thought she just meant going to the bar underage. See the original “hot chicks” plan.
i just assume she meant sneak in while they’re both under 21, but i would’ve first thought she was accusing dorothy of doing a “hello fellow kids” (not that presidents can’t “relax” and stuff but while you don’t necessarily want a harvard elite to be president idk if they want someone too ‘average’ leading the country either [I remember someone having a standup line like “you’re probably watching me at a bar right now; see any presidents?”])
I wonder how many subscribers Joyce food review channel has.
I am more curious about what foods she reviews. After you get passed chicken fingers, Kraft dinner and Galasso’s pizza (with all the sausage removed) what else is there?
Water.
You laugh but I’m sure someone has earnestly reviewed different brands of bottled water against each other.
There is a series by noted magicians Penn and Teller called B.S., where they take on various “myths”, such as psychics, alternative medicine, etc.
One such episode talked about bottled water and the belief that some people had that i tastes better. So they created a fake restaurant that had a “bottled water list/menu” where people could pick from things like glacial water from the mountains, water from the Amazon rain forest, etc. all of the customers commented on how good the water was and how they could taste the difference in the various bottles of water.
Then they showed the waiter filling all the bottles from the same garden hose.
Good old Bullshit.
Most of the big brand bottled water is just filtered tap water anyway. If it came from Coca-Cola or Pepsico, it’s literally the same exact water they use for their soft drinks (but without the flavor and carbonation). Sometimes it goes through a reverse osmosis process, or activated charcoal (like oversize Brita filter), but for the most part it’s nothing special. They just want you to think it is, so you’ll keep shoveling pure profit into their coffers.
Somebody forgot about Nestleeeeeeeeeeee…
They’re not worth mentioning except to say fuck Nestle.
I was assuming it just a brief review of the different iterations of chicken fingers – had a touch of garlic, acceptable but not a huge fan! – and then very detailed lists of all the things she didn’t eat and why. Like, ‘the burger was overly juicy and absolutely laden with spicy onion strings and a gelatinous sauce that appeared to be 30% mayo, 60% garlic, and 10% ketchup.’ (A friend of mine is even more restricted than Joyce and she can wax poetic about the reasons why a food is NOT acceptable.)
All 36 flavors of Nachitos.
Considering Roz mentions trying everything Joyce won’t, I’d guess she doesn’t intend it to be food reviews or critiques or whatever, rather I’d bet she just complains about all of the things a given restaurant has on their menu that doesn’t live up to her standards by describing all of the ingredients that *touch* one another. To a more adventurous eater, this is might be an appealing way of finding interesting food combinations to try, or restaurants that are applying novel twists to classics and staples. Like, if Joyce got all up in arms over someone putting green peppers on chicken or whatever, to someone who likes that (I don’t know why anyone would, green peppers are gross, but some people seem to like them for some unfathomable reason), they might decide to make a trip to that restaurant to try the dish.
…and how many love chili or gumbo and follow her to see what food components she’ll separate from non-similar components?
I’ll eat whatever Roz won’t.
I mean it’d be great for picky ppl or allergy restrictions. if not just a general foodie review channel that has a “picky guest Sunday” kinda vid every week where they try some and like it more than expected
So does that mean Roz wants to be president?
Roz doesn’t want to be president.
Being president would take time, time that Roz would much rather spend condescendingly and performatively nitpicking everyone else’s behavior.
She wants to be on the View, not in the White House
Maybe a little. I don’t think she’s pursuing an elected office though, and if she was some of her stunts would be very counter-productive
I just assume she’d wanted to be a slightly better?//modern ver of paris hilton or the kardashians lol
Roz is in a towel
“Shocked and slightly embarrassed at the sight of Roz in a towel, Dorothy regains her composure and retorts: ‘Wait, Roz, you follow Joyce on social media?'”
“Shocked and slightly embarrassed at revealing the religious media she was brought up on instead of anything normal, Aura regains her composure and apologises: ‘Sorry if that brought up anyone’s traumatic childhood :(‘”
(P.S. Larry says trans rights!)
Funny enough, this clarification that you were referencing religious media is how you revealed that information, in at least one case.
Yeah, I wanted to apologise in case I’d triggered anyone with the reference, but also to continue the bit, & revealing that information was the price *shrug* It’s not like I had any reputation to protect anyway 😛
Larry, being a cucumber, does not inherently have a gender.
The mere fact that he uses he/him pronouns indicates that Larry (and all the VeggieTales cast) are trans by default.
I am unironically a huge fan of this take
Charmy Bee of Sonic the Hedgehog, too. He clearly identifies as male, and yet, he’s got a functional stinger. He’s a trans guy who’s not had bottom surgery.
**slow clap**
Both for the take and for remembering that Charmy the Bee exists.
Man I did not catch that veggietales reference. But like chill, veggietales is so cool I didn’t pick up on the religious aspects of it AT ALL as a kid. My parents are the most passively religious folks around so I don’t think they cared whether I was learning good Christian values. I just like the funky squishy vegetables and their banger music. Still bop to the pirates that don’t do anything
Lmao
You addressed it first. 99% chance she is in fact just in a towel.
it is the proper garb for moving from one’s room to or from the shower
on a floor that is all woman-gendered folks
the second towel around the hair seems to indicate
that in this case the direction is ‘from’
Two towels
nice
If only centrists were a fable. Unfortunately they are real and very very annoying
True, but the size of the voting bloc of regular joes who decide how to vote based on which candidate is more moderate and/or relatable is broadly exaggerated.
Broadly exaggerated by the exact kind of condescending chud Roz is.
Provided you remove the phrase “and/or relatable” from that, I’d agree.
While the share of so-called “swing voters” that overtly cast their ballots based on purely shallow impressions of the candidates’ affects isn’t a majority, such facile judgements are depressingly common amongst low-information voters (which may be found all across the political spectrum, incidentally).
I mean, I describe myself as a centrist, more or less.
I prefer the term “independent thinker”. I’m not devoted to “centrism” per se, but I try to put critical thought into held positions and admit it when I don’t have a clear answer, even if the crowd does.
That sounds like a pretentious way of saying the same thing
Probably, but I mean what I say. I’m not looking to be exactly in the middle of every controversy, sometimes there really is a right answer.
Wow, there are two of us!
*Emily Dickinson intensifies, very quietly*
Incremental progress, yeah!
I was raised on a lot of centrist ideas but I look at the state of America as it exists around me and have to conclude that clearly the status quo has failed on pretty much all fronts, and so we need to try far more radical solutions.
I don’t know who is considered a centrist to others here, but remember, Joe Lieberman was knob-slobbered by Beltway Inbreds* for much of this century.
He’s who I call a centrist: What our press corps needs to pretend really hard appeals to meaningful numbers of voters.
That’s not Dotty to me, especially for having grown up in a small Indiana city.
(*These are auto-capitalized as I’ve typed them so often.)
Sure, I’d say Joe would be a good example, but now it’s used by Roz-types to cover everyone who isn’t on the performative left. Every Dem in Congress outside of Bernie and the “Squad” gets called centrist, at best.
I mean…if you compare them to any equivalent nation yeah, cuz they are. America’s default is right wing, hard to get any actual leftist politics all the way up to Congress bc it’s considered “radical communism”
Sure. Fine. Whatever.
If you’re going to use it dismissively, as Roz is doing here, all you’re doing is isolating yourself.
Yeah, that is a good assessent of Roz’s viewpoint.
there is a whole reddit community (well just reposting screenshots) called ‘enlightened centrists’ i believe
Don’t stop wanting to be the think I like mocking you for wanting to be.
Hi, Rachel.
ew, no flip flops.
Yeah super gross.
Also, Dorthey has not been wearing glasses in the last couple of strips. I wonder if that is just because it appears to be early morning on a weekend, or if it has larger symbolic meaning of some sort. Is she seeing things more clearly now, or less? Is she changing as a person from a focused on work and efficacy to one more focused on socialization (and has thus chosen contacts)? I am intrigued yet befuddled.
I mean I dunno how short sighted she really is but I can see well enough without my glasses that I don’t bother wearing them if I’m just going to shower.
I am nearsighted and have astigmatism, so while I COULD make it down the hall without my glasses, I would never do so, especially to a place where I might step in something, like the shower.
So I am also in the “ew, no flip flops” camp.
It makes her look sadder.
Could plausibly just be carrying them with her stuff and planning to put them on when she gets to the showers, doesn’t seem super practical compared to just wearing them though and therefore unlikely.
Or she left them in her room. I never wear my glasses in the shower.
And in a previous strip she was not wearing glasses when looking at her phone. But I am the same way. I wear glasses and remove them to brown my phone
Yeah I need glasses to see clearly at all distances, but it’s not like Its rare to be completely incapable of reading a phone for some time without glasses especially early on the morning on a bed
Uh, edit to “it’s not like it’s rare to be able to read a phone without glasses”
I thought we were talking about footwear? Did this end up nested in the wrong place?
True Believers comment turned it into glasses by speculation what it means that she’s been shown not wearing glasses.
Which I suppose makes sense narratively but as a glasses wearing person…I don’t wear my glasses to shower and I’m able to read a phone inches from my face without them…
Ah, it was a nesting issue then! My original comment was a reply to HSL on the same level as theirs but it’s kinda hard to tell now that there have been more replies to their comment.
Seeing as we’re talking about glasses, my take is just that it’s practicality/realism, it’s early in the morning and she’s about to shower so there was no reason to put them on yet. That’s not mutually exclusive with the sort of symbolic reading TS suggests though and I do like that reading.
Or she’s feeling “meh, can’t be bothered just now,” as with everything else.
Unusual for Dorothy too since she otherwise seems to be wearing those pink socks all the time, even to bed…
What’s wrong with flip flops?
Dorothy isn’t wearing any and is about to use a communal shower.
Hangover showers have no standards though
Flip-flops in general are overrated. They don’t stay on and the sound they make is annoying.
And as long as you don’t immediately throw socks and sneakers on as soon as you get out of the shower, the risk of skin infection is low. Fungi thrive in warm, moist, dark environments. (You know, what shoes are.) You don’t have to go full Sierra, but if you don’t bother with those until after your feet are as dry as your hands normally are, you’ll be fine.
They’re to prevent plantar warts and stepping on other people’s hair clumps which is gross.
I’m not sure if I should be happy for Dorothy since she isn’t pursuing something out of obligation so she can find a path that will make her happy, or if I should be upset that people made her not want her dream anymore(the bongo named raidah coming to mind.)
It’s complicated, but on the one hand, Dorothy at this moment may still have remorse for the decision she made, but she has been aware that there were times when what she was doing may not have been what she really wanted, the important thing now is that Although she doesn’t realize it, she doesn’t have that heavy burden that she imposed on herself, this is the opportunity for her to finally relax and find and experiment with new things, she is still young and a great girl and she really deserves to be happy.
And believe me, that nefarious imitation of a human being called Raidah attacked Dorohty out of simple evil and cowardice and I really look forward to her paying for her daring.
Karma isn’t always swift, but it is still brutal. *crosses fingers*
indeed *crosses fingers*
So many people tried to talk Dorothy out of her dream, and she didn’t listen. Raidah woke up doubts that were already inside of her.
I think if Raidah destroyed her dream in one sentence, Dorothy was in deliberate denial.
I stopped wanting to be President when I was fourteen when someone asked, “So, what would you do if you had to push the Button?”
I really wish we had someone who would refuse to do it to vote for. I can’t think of any situation that would be improved by global thermonucular war killing most of the people on the planet.
OTOH, a President publicly proclaiming they wouldn’t push the nuclear button, even in response to a nuclear attack removes MAD and makes an enemy first strike more feasible.
What we really want is someone who won’t, but who’s a really good bluffer. But we’d need to be fooled by them too.
Joyce had a childhood dream too, to find a husband and then homeschool their children as conservative Christians.
Some version of their dreams are still possible, what they were holding onto were simplistic fantasies, which required increasing amounts of repressing doubts and criticism.
This interaction is going to be 17 clusters.
I like your funny words, magic man.
However, they still go over my head.
Clusterfucks, to use the full term.
This implies not only that Roz does not follow Dorothy on social media (not surprising), but that Dorothy has memorized who does and does not follow her on social media (also not surprising honestly)
Does that reply imply that everyone of that age is on social media? And might be (or expects to be) followed by their peers (rather than maybe just family)? I’m apparently well out of the loop.
Or it implies that Dorothy didn’t comment on social media about drinking, so Roz would not have learned anything even if she does follow Dorothy.
Also it might just be that Dorothy knows that Roz, specifically, doesn’t follow her. She might not need to have her entire follow list memorized to know which of the people she lives around does and does not sit on it. Or there was an altercation.
maybe she just needs to execute a puppy in a gravel pit, i hear that’s pretty presidential
No, that’s vice presidential.
Strictly speaking, it’s only gubernatorial so far.
Also, as a side note, it’s fucking reprehensible.
Yeah, it’s vice-presidential aspirational and also almost certainly going to cost her any shot at the office, probably going to outright end her career
She’s done politically.
Trump knows she’s a toxic brand now.
Maybe the secret to being okay with letting go of your lifelong dream is having Roz mock you and then you no longer want it.
Seriously, Roz is cruising for a shot to the chops.
Maybe the secret is having Roz mock you and changing your mind again, driving harder than ever toward your goal just to make her wrong.
I…no? People who want to be president do not say “I don’t want to be president.”
“I didn’t want to assume unlimited executive power but due to the current crisis I accept the position of dictator with a heavy heart…”
That’s exactly what someone who wants to be president would claim!
Most of them switch from “what, no, never” to “yes” at a carefully chosen point. If they don’t choose wisely, they don’t become president.
There’s a Cabin Pressure episode featuring a kid who has planned his future career up to getting a post in the UK Cabinet, and when Douglas sarcastically asks when he’s going to be made Prime Minister, he replies that he has no ambition for that position, but if the party insisted that he was the best man for the job, he would defer to their judgement. I think that’s what Roz is thinking of.
Of course, “I don’t want to be President” is also something someone who doesn’t want to be President would say.
I think that’s the sort of thing Roz is thinking of; I’m not saying for certain that she listens to Cabin Pressure.
I’m not sure who I find more annoying, Roz or Becky…
They’re both equally annoying but in different ways
Both. Both is good.
It’s Roz for me, and by a lot.
Becky’s annoying traits all clearly come from a very human, understandable place. She’s been hurt, she’s immature, and she’s “a lot”, but underneath it all I never get the feeling that there’s malice. She’s just a young adult, struggling with how to find her place in the world.
Roz, meanwhile, is all condescension, all the time. She takes these little potshots at people every fucking chance she gets, just to remind them all how enlightened she is. She inserted herself into multiple clearly-personal conversations about birth control where she KNEW she wasn’t wanted.
She raked Joyce over the coals IN A CLASS for NOT KNOWING THE MATERIAL YET.
Roz thinks she’s the smartest person in the room.
Yeah, Becky isn’t in the same zip code of annoying.
Roz is still using the “nobody wants to have a beer with you” schtick.
I don’t know that an actual Progressive has said that unironically since the “Mission Accomplished” banner rightly became an insult. She sounds like a…Republican or a DC pundit?
I think that Roz’s intention is to mock DOROTHY for believing in the “have a beer with” idea.
“You’re not only wrong about your goals, but you’re also bad at achieving them” is the intended insult, far as I can tell.
A critic who’s always full of workable solutions? That’s our Roz! (/s)
(PS I like your interpretation of Roz and it should have occurred to me.)
it’s Dumbing of Age. Everyone is annoying here
the most popular social media site of the mid-20X0s, socialmedia.com
Stick THAT in your sliding timescale and share it, inexorable march of time and dating of references!
Fucking hell, Roz.
I just wanna see Joyce’s food reviews now…
There’s some bonus strips on Patreon. They’re as Joyce as can be.
2nd October 2020 and 2nd December 2020 bonus strips. Interesting dates they were posted on.
book 11 i think
Social drinking is a thing for the prominent… like the Goodyear Man.
Joyce’s food review? Isn’t that a bonus strip, which I don’t recall where it’s from now?
Heh, there may still be uncertainty in Dorothy about her decision, but she didn’t let Roz get her way.
The problem, of course, is that it’s also what people who don’t want to be President say
Roz is misbehaving somehow.
And her towel is a terrible color.
It is!
People readying the torches and pitchforks over Roz talking to Dorothy about their only shared interest, which has been Dorothy’s only interest for as long as Roz has known her.
It doesn’t matter if that’s a terrible color or not, that’s the color of the Platonic ideal towel.
Dear lord, she’s saying stuff about the thing that’s the only thing she knows about a person she barely talks to. How could this be happening to me?
There’s so many ways I respect Roz but it is here that I find her very irritating
If a person has shown they’ve listened to you then you can stop being a pain in the ass
Let people develop Roz!!
You fictional character in a comic!!!
Is it possible that the starting point of said development manifests itself in this strip?
Ironically, Roz is refusing to let other characters develop because SHE has never developed.
I think nearly every other (sympathetic) character in this webcomic has grown more as a person than Roz has. Meanwhile Roz is still exactly as smug, condescending, and liberal-one-upping as she was on day one.
I cannot name a single moment of true vulnerability or personal growth we’ve seen for her: anything coming to mind for anyone else?
Honestly I feel like she is only on-panel to deliver one-liners. She’s never had a storyline or even been a major part of one.
She’s a supporting character, not a secondary character.
She had a storyline when they debuted her and Robin, but since then, she’s basically just been a Dorothy antagonist and Joyce one to a degree. This would be because she’s obnoxious and none of the main cast like to spend time with her.
Honestly, reminiscent of how, in Shortpacked, Leslie could not stand her. Not like she likes her much in this AU, either, granted….
She did get dunked on that one time by Leslie. But it’s hard to say if that actually resulted in any self-reflection on her part. Signs point to no.
Everything Roz eats touches. She basically kills a plate with as many things as she can find and puts it all in a food processor.
Your stomach won’t know the difference, and it saves your teeth undue wear and tear!
Roz, someday you may grow to learn that upsetting people is not a substitute for a personality.
It absolutely is a substitute for a personality, as long as you have a group of friends willing to support you in it who you are *not* an asshole to. Which Roz probably does, I would be supremely surprised if she doesn’t have a community of leftists to circlejerk with online and to always tell her she’s right to try to bully those centrists.
There’s a huge swath of the population that’s certainly trying, though.
Just don’t tell them, or they’ll retreat to their clapped-out, coal-rolling, air-hauling lifted pickup trucks, put on their Oakleys to hide the tears, and stick their phones in their half-broken vent mount so they can film a monologue about how upset they made you.
second to last panel is Roz going, “…wait, why the hell didn’t my cutting barb work?!”
Testing
Did we pass?
no, it didn’t
Anyone else’s reply not working?
Testing
Well that was strange
Tl;dr i know this is comic but it ls a peve of mine calling people “centrists” when they mostly agree with you just creates needless drama. It’s counterproductive and petty, dividing potentialballies instead of uniting them over common ground.
The long version
Roz and Dorothy are more closely aligned than Roz is with Mary, so Roz’s hostility towards Dorothy and others whom she perceives as sharing her views is counterproductive, not just in politics but in general interactions as well. While it’s understandable that Roz may not want to extend understanding towards extreme right-wing individuals, it would be beneficial for her to show more kindness to those who share her core beliefs, especially on issues like reproductive rights and sexual expression. Dorothy likely agrees with Roz on these critical matters, even if she isn’t as vocal about them. Building alliances rather than creating divisions within similar ideological groups can lead to more substantial outcomes and foster a supportive environment Roz is just being petty no surprise there.
In the contxet of politics labeling someone as a “centrist” because they don’t share identical political views in the context of politics can alienate potential allies and oversimplify the spectrum of political beliefs in the U.S. This tendency often leads to legislative gridlock. Roz is kind of engaging in the “No True Scotsman” fallacy, where factions within parties insist on rigid ideological purity, dismissing any deviation as not truly representative of their political stance. This phenomenon is not limited to one side but is more visible in certain factions.
This issue of polarization and mislabeling echoes the findings of “The Myth of the Independent Voter,” which shows that many who identify as independents have moderate views that lean slightly left or right. This indicates that political beliefs are more centered than polarized, suggesting a broader, more nuanced political middle ground exists. Recognizing and engaging with this diversity of perspectives, rather than sidelining them, is essential for building broader coalitions and achieving effective governance.
Does the same still apply to private citizens who do not hold office? As far as I know Roz isn’t even planning to hold office.
Yes, the principle still applies. Although Roz isn’t planning to hold office, she definitely sees herself as an advocate. As an advocate, engaging effectively in politics is crucial to advancing the causes she supports. So, the same rules about building alliances and avoiding needless divisions hold true, even for private citizens like her.
Certainly she would want to appeal to like-minded people, and there is a danger of being too narrow. But if she’s not a politician she doesn’t necessarily need to appeal to the center-left. She would want to coalition build with other leftists.
If she wants to actually achieve what she advocates for, she’ll need to expand the coalition beyond leftists, because there aren’t enough leftists to achieve anything.
If she wants to defend or restore reproductive rights, for example, the vast majority of people interested in that coalition are centrist or center-left (on a scale in which Dorothy is one of those).
On the one hand, agitators and far-left voices are a force for discourse and change. A lot of progress has been made by the people who make noise and prod others into taking action.
On the other hand…yeah. “If you’re not 100% as liberal as I am, then you can FUCK OFF to the right wing where you BELONG” is an annoyingly common mentality, and that can be amplified by the person being young like Roz is.
The right is certainly not immune to this issue. The Freedom Caucus exemplifies the “No True Scotsman” fallacy, even within its own ranks, frequently stalling progress in the House of Representatives. This faction’s rigid purity tests make passing any legislation a Herculean effort, mirroring the divisiveness seen across the political spectrum.
“But both sides are the same, you guys!”
*eyeroll*
I didn’t say that I’m not declaring a moral equivalency between both sides, I’m saying both sides are subject to the same phenomenon.
That’s why I like it when something gets through anyway. It almost doesn’t matter what it was; I just like seeing these guys fail.
She didn’t call her a centrist.
☝️ this right here. Roz was talking about APPEALING to centrists. Not calling Dorothy one.
By saying that Dorothy seeks to appeal to centrists, Roz is not just categorizing her as a centrist, but also implying a moral judgment. This approach suggests that appealing to centrists, in Roz’s view, is morally dubious, indicating that those who do are less committed or principled. This is more than just labeling; it’s an insult, as it subtly questions Dorothy’s integrity and alignment with core causes, engaging deeply in the “No True Scotsman” fallacy.
no
Umm yes
Everyone running for office wants to appeal to centrists to some extent. She wasnt calling her a centrist or passing a moral judgement, she was joking that Dorothy does not seem like the type of person you can have a beer with, and that’s the criteria a lot of centrist Americans use. It was a joke and a jab calling her uptight. Chill.
Pretty sure she was passing a moral judgement by commenting on how Dotty is trying to appeal to people, it’s based on Roz’s morals.
I have mixed feelings on your take, though mostly positive – my main beef is “more closely aligned than Roz is with Mary” is a gulf.
Like, I think Roz is a constant dick for no reason, but I don’t loooove it when people try to straddle the divide between “society should be for people” and whatever the hell constitutes the right these days. (Ie: there no longer appears to be a centre right in many places including my not-US country and the far right is doing a bang up job or normalising some fucked up shit to people who really don’t want to pick a side. Not that I like the side picking. EUGH.)
She didn’t call Dorothy a centrist. She said Dorothy was the type of president to try to appeal to centrists, who as a rule don’t really exist anyway.
That’s not true, I think both sides are lying, cheating, corrupt scumbags.
Likewise, but that doesn’t make either of us centrists. It makes us completely outside the spectrum of effective political activity.
There’s no ‘left’ (and certainly no ‘Left’) in American politics. At least, not among the politicians. Because the politicians are no longer about policy, but power for its own sake.
The principal difference between Dems and Repugs is the audience: the people to whom they lie, while they advance their real agenda: More Wealth For Me.
Thing is, Roz doesn’t really Believe in her causes. She is just using them to feel better about herself and use them as moral high ground she can use to bash other people. That’s probably why she has a strong dislike for Dotty, because Dotty is an actually well-meaning person who wants to help people.
This. One huge reason to far-right return to power.
While Left keeps saying who is less progressist, the Conservative keep gaining terrain.
The problem with Left is that it forgot who is their primary voting block, Workers. They focused so much on, admittedly important issues but ones that in the greater scheme of things are marginal to most people and forgot who they should actually support. Trump stole a lot of working people by promising to help them secure their livelihoods while the Democrats were arguing about stuff most of those people didn’t care about.
This is a common but largely debunked take. Democratic policies are provably better for the working class and Trump’s strength was never among even white working class voters. This has also been a right wing talking point since Reagan at least – You real American workers are being screwed by Democratic elites giving your tax money to lazy blacks.
Also, it’s a lot easier to promise stuff if you just flat out lie about it and if your base is sufficiently fueled by resentment that they’ll keep believing you.
The issues currently are probably more towards stuff like Climate Change. The Dems pushing all kinds of regulations, taxes etc. that severely inconvenience regular people, especially those in the countryside. Making life cost more and more while the stuff you use becomes less and less efficient like having to use electric vehicles instead of gasoline ones.
There’s no one forcing anyone to use electric vehicles. Wherever you are getting your information about the policies the US parties are advocating is lying to you.
Trump got a lot of white working class voted by beating the xenophobia and racism drums. Regulation doesn’t inconvenience people the way you think it does. Our taxes don’t work the way you think they do.
Yeah specifically the Chinese angle and sadly he is right. China is very much on the imperial rise.
Anti-hispanic. Maybe sit out on analyzing US elections.
A lot of his talking points were about bringing back the jobs that were shipped to China.
it’s important to recognize that regulations and taxes aimed at addressing it may not necessarily inconvenience regular people as much as perceived. Transitioning to sustainable practices, such as utilizing electric vehicles, not only contributes to long-term efficiency and environmental preservation but also presents opportunities for innovation and job creation.
In terms of voter demographics, Trump’s appeal extended beyond xenophobic rhetoric targeting the white working class. He also found resonance among older Cuban voters, leveraging anti-socialist rhetoric to solidify support within Republican-leaning demographics.
Contrary to popular belief, regulations often serve to protect workers, consumers, and the environment, fostering a more equitable society. By ensuring safer working conditions and fair labor practices, regulations can positively impact communities. It’s essential to recognize that corporate lobbying against regulations often prioritizes profits over the well-being of workers, highlighting the need for balanced regulatory frameworks.
In the realm of international affairs, Trump’s rhetoric has inadvertently played into the hands of authoritarian leaders like Putin and Xi Jinping. By adopting confrontational language and policies, Trump’s presidency has emboldened authoritarian regimes and complicated diplomatic efforts. This dynamic has bolstered narratives of American interference, contributing to geopolitical tensions and making cooperation on global issues more challenging.
Trump was xenophobic toward lots of people, not just illegal immigrants.
This is mostly myth. Pushed by both the right and the far left. The right because it minimizes the effect of bigotry and resentment, the left because it lets them attack Dems for not doing enough economically for the working class.
Studies show the shift to Trump wasn’t really from the white working class. If anything he followed or even slightly reversed a long term trend of GOP gains.
While Trump’s appeal to the white working class can be politicized, its not a myth evidence shows Trump resonated with this demographic through messages on immigration, trade, and economic nationalism. His populist appeal mirrors trends seen globally. Studies from journals like the Journal of Politics and the British Journal of Political Science and News Sources like the Atlantic support the idea that Trump appealed to this group of voters. While not the sole factor in his 2016 win, it did contribute significantly.
It’s largely because many democrats (especially those in office) are under a naive paradigm of “big tent” progressivism in which the path to victory is through winning over the far right with “hearts and minds” approach.
Which rather odd, considering the victories the far right won over the past 20 years were certainly NOT achieved by winning over US. Reactionaries bolster their numbers by finding disgruntled, politically illiterate pockets of the USA to radicalize to their cause, then pitching themselves to more mainstream right wing politicians as a demographic now large enough to sway a narrow election.
What is actually needed to counter this strategy is for progressive leaders to actually gain the vote of the minorities they claim to represent. But of course whenever these leaders lose, their answer is always because they didn’t have enough talks with the far right. Guaranteeing the minority vote is reframed as a “critical long term goal”, because always always what important is making sure those who won the election arent made out to feel like they’re racist when we really gotta “reach across the isle” this time around. 🙄
Democrats make no specific attempt to win over the far right. They do try to appeal to Republican leaners turned off by the far right – because that’s where the votes are.
I’m not sure what “minority vote” you’re talking about. Dems have gotten huge percentages of more minority groups for decades. Other than white women, who vote more white than woman.
Claire McCaskill said there were BLM terrorists.
Labelling me a “centrist” can only alienate me if I take it as an insult, rather than a compliment.
People call themselves centrists, and it is unfortunately accurate even if folks wanna play semantics gymnastics to try and get out of it because they don’t like the connotations.
If the boot fits etc etc
Purported “centrists” are but wishful thinkers who seek to hedge their bets by trying to appeal to both the left and the right for their votes, attention and money.
Oxfam and other organizations learn the hard way what comes of trying to appeal to both those who want social progress and those who want to conserve the existing social order.
You cannot drink from both the cup of social justice and the cup of those who want it stagnated or reversed for selfish gain.
It’s a shame Roz is not illegible for the position. They could set her up against Trump. Annoyance vs Annoyance.
i mean in a world where robin was briefly in office, someone liek “amazigirl” existing and carla’s parents being basically billionaires, i don’t think it’d be impossible lol
“No, you crushed that ambition, Roz. Congratulations, very feminist of you.”
That was Raidah actually. And also the trauma.
It’s been a while, but I take your word for it and stand corrected – thank’ee.
I think I erred because I took it as a continuation of the ‘replacement TA’ sequence, where Roz was lauding her advantage in politicking from being from a ‘politics family’ to stomp on her ego came from a background without that privilege. And it was, thematically, I guess, but I confused two of our ‘enjoys being brutally honest a bit too much’ characters, it seems. My error, and cheers!
Oh Boy! The term “Centrist” appeared so now there will be political discourse between “KILL PEOPLE” and “maybe not kill people!”. Guess which side i’m on.
I never cease to be amused at just how pro-death the pro-lifers are…
Once you are out of the womb, you are on your own!
Out of the womb, straight to the tomb
The problem with centrism as an ideal is when it tries to find a golden middle for everything. A reactionary centrist will pulled to the ‘center’ of whatever’s being discussed, and that’s how you end up with people scolding you for wanting zero ethnic cleansings, instead of finding a middle ground of half as many ethnic cleansings as the ethno-nationalists want.
When they become the white moderates MLK called out.
Roz doesn’t believe in her owns knots, that’s why she keeps holding the towel.
Roz, being a contrarian all the time that has to feel superior to everyone doesn’t actually make you better than everyone, it makes you annoying.
I took that more as “Joyce’s food aversions mean she reflexively rejects anything that could be flavorful or interesting”.
That still sounds insulting to me like the things she won’t try are inherently ‘better’.
But I wasn’t actually making a comment about that so much as the fact that Dorothy point blank said ‘I don’t want to be president’ and Roz had to insist that she does, so that they remain on opposing sides. Like she can’t accept that Dorothy has lost interest, she has to contradict her and keep opposing her and acting like she knows Dorothy better than Dorothy herself does.
Which just makes her annoying.
You know… Dotty could solve two of her problems if she somehow got Roz and Becky to compete with Each other instead of her. Like a toreador, swish the cape and jump out of the way as two bulls charge at her and instead slam into each other.
LOL it’d either be an interesting rivalry or somehow becky and her would be besties (well, second best friend next to joyce) and ends up wingwomaning her into a good longer lasting relationships (tho nothing wrong with flings if they wanna live their life that way)
“How dare you listen to my dream crushing statements and let me crush your dreams with them!”
Roz is not just a contrarian! She specifically contradicts people about their politics, which are not as far left as hers. Especially their politics of sexual liberation. Come to think, she’s probably preparing a speech to Joyce connecting her sexual repression with her preference for bland food and advising her to try a billion kinds of food just as she’s tried a billion flavors of dick (once she gets to sucking a billion dicks).
I suspect Mary’s on deck, swingin’ three bats in preparation.
Roz wear her glasses to the shower rooms but Dorothy doesn’t
Maybe her eyesight is much worse than Dotty’s?
i think depending i would still wear my glasses going room to room and not taking them off before actually getting into a shower, if not leaving them into my room in case i end up losing/forgetting them in the dorm shower because thye’re a pain to replace if you lose glasses that you wear on a daily basis and no backup pair
Roz is wearing her glasses *from* the showers in this strip.
How else are you supposed to clean thrm?
Second semester of college and Roz hasn’t outgrown her high school persona. Not enough trauma I guess.
ii mean everyone would be in their 20s at the oldest, other than there being some random adult/middle aged person in the cast going ‘back’ to college to finish off a degree (tho no one there yet as far as i know), but i can imagine that kinda age/personsality would still be insufferable b/c you do hear about 30 year old office workers and ‘office politics’ still acting like they never left high school lol
tho wonder if we’ll get some kinda chara growth arc for her, i’m sure there are ways she could be more ‘pleasant’ but tbh someone with her kinda personality could prolly do well in a career for a decade and not need to change much compared to walky who would def need to learn to be a bit more mature /know how to act appropriately than being a goofball at work unless he ends up doing a non traditional job like being a twitch streamer or so lol
The 18-year-old hasn’t outgrown being 18 years old in just a couple of months? Where’s my fainting couch? I think I got a case o’ the vapors.
Oh Jesus H. Fuck, people, get off Dorothy’s ass already. She was the *passenger* on that ride.
Which ride?
I’m not sure 2 people commenting she did something unusual for her is odd or riding her ass particularly since one is jealous and the other… also seems kind of jealous. They don’t seem to think less of her
Roz is so nice and as such a big empathy for others that sometimes I feel sorry for Mary, who has to put up with her as a roommate. Seriously.
Roz continues to be an ass, I see.
I can’t tell if roz is trying to be nice or not
Respect is positive but “that’s what people who want to be president say” is uhhh. what.
Anyway good on dorothy for saying it like it’s not a whole thing I guess.
Roz’s character hasn’t really been established as far as I can remember. She’s kind of a cipher/prop/gag machine in DOA that appears once every 2-3 years for a strip or maybe two.
Oh, right. It’s an election year. I’m sure that won’t have people more agitated and ready to fight than usual.
Roz you’re suck a dickhead. I love you.
Joe approves this comment.
Joe’s got a lot to unpack before he starts liking dick
heads.
He may not like dickheads but I’m pretty sure he likes people who suck them (as smolgrlboi’s typo says).
Roz, Joyce won’t try 99% of any given menu.
…Okay, y’know what, we have seen Joyce review things in bonus strips by saying ‘This sounds gross so I won’t try it’. That might actually be a strategy. Especially if you have very different tastes and so you don’t like her food. XD
I have honestly followed movie and music reviewers with the same logic…
Captain Peachfuzz has never failed me yet!
Todd in the Shadows is the only music reviewer I pay attention to.
be amsuing if it flash forward to roz being president but i imagine despite her ‘natural charisma’ compared to dorothy and jennifer’s personalities, she’d prolly not wanna do all the paperwork and stuff (tho idk if she’d be interested in politics outside of stcicking it into her sister, considering she only wanted to be RA to get away from mary)
Please, it’s not like the previous creep did his paperwork anyway.
(Sticking it into her sister, you say?)
A big part of being the president is filling out forms.
To give a sense of just how much Dorothy has stopped caring… Roz is wearing shower sandals, Dorothy is not. Ewww…